Unca Harlan's Art Deco Dining Pavilion

Discussion of the man and his work.

Welcome to the Art Deco Dining Pavilion! Here's the deal. This is Harlan's little breakfast nook at Webderland. When he's not here, we chat about him and his work. When he is, we act like we're guests in his home. That's about all there is to it. (link to More specific rules) Oh, and since the nook doesn't exactly hold a crowd (and to prevent the less frequent voices from being drowned out), please limit yourself to one post a day unless Harlan asks you a direct question. The Pavilion Annex is available if you're the logorrheic type. Also, we have archives of old posts. RSS Feed

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Displaying board posts 26 through 50 - showing messages at a time.

Brian Phillips
McDonough, GA - Tuesday, November 28 2017 8:50:40

Latest Paul Hull Update from Kathrine
I tried to wait so I could present several updates at one time, but this is the last from his or her Facebook page.

"Tonight, Paul smiled for Kirin and I. He also did a few more things like raise his eyebrows and he’s moving his right hand more. It was a nice time, and we just love him so much.

Please continue to pray for daily improvements and complete healing for Paul."

- Brian Phillips
We appreciate you all."

Lori Koonce <purplelynn35@gmail.com>
SF, California - Tuesday, November 28 2017 7:27:20

Bits and Pieces
Steve Barber: The one thing that no one wants to even admit let alone consider is the laws of the state of Alabama. Which upon a short search go to say that a 14-year-old can have sex with parental permission and that a 16-year-old doesn't need that.

So, while what Moore did is morally inexcusable, we cannot call him a criminal. but we'd not have much government if we had gotten rid of all of those with some sort of moral conflict.

I know it sounds like I'm making excuses for Moore, but I seriously have thought about this.


Jeff R: How many accusers does it take for someone to be investigated about his or her possible missconduce.

Coming from a LEO family, I've always assumed that the investigation stage of stuff like this was to get at the truth.

Jeff R.
Philadelphia, - Tuesday, November 28 2017 6:42:31

Anyone here remember Edward R. Murrow?
In his broadcast which helped to bring down Senator McCarthy, he said "Accusation is not proof.". Too many people seem to forget that at times.

- Tuesday, November 28 2017 5:59:55

Hmmm ...
"You voted for him knowing he was an accused assaulter, so please STFU when it comes to your outrage with anyone else."

Steve. Although I found myself nodding in agreement with pretty much everything you wrote, the quote above shocked me.

Accused. It really does matter. Do I personally think that Donald J. Trump is a grunting oaf of a satyr? Yes, I do. I thought the same of Bill Clinton. I think that Bill Cosby did the things he has been accused of. But until it's proven in court, until the evidence is presented, I don't know in any of those cases with the degree of certainty necessary to destroy someone's entire life.

Oh, I know about Clinton, Cosby and Trump with the certainty that allows me to form an opinion, but I don't know it with the certainty that allows me to require ALL the rest of what comes with such an accusation.

Being accused already leads to loss of jobs, college placement, reputation, and so on. You can be accused and lose pretty much everything while you wait for your day in court to present the evidence that disproves the claims of the plaintiff. And when you do? "Oh, the plaintiff got the day wrong, that's all. The defendant is still guilty. Why? Because I think he is."

Just the accusation alone is enough to ruin a life. And when that's the case, I have to err on the side of caution.

George Takei was just accused of a four-decade old assault. Do we build the bonfire of Star Trek DVDs? Do we drag him from his home and stone him? Do we give him a pass because he's such a nice guy?

No. No to all of those options. If someone's accused of something, as you point out later in your post, it can infrequently (but how infrequent is sufficiently "rare" to make it an acceptable rounding error? If it's only 1 in a million cases that turns out to be false, does that one poor bastard whose whole life just went down the toilet just get written off? What if the poor bastard is you? Or me? Or your brother? Or someone's husband or father?) be that the accusation is from someone with an ax to grind.

The best stat I can find puts the percentage of false claims at 3%. That's a lot more than 1 in a million.

So I'm going to disagree about how "knowing" someone is an "accused assaulter" means anything.

And before I step off the soapbox, let's have a real-world example of what happens when accusations are made. Go on over to Ted Rall's website (rall.com). He's a cartoonist who was fired from the LA Times for fabrication. The only problem is that the accusation has no evidence to back it up. And now Rall's life is being ruined.

This is the real-world consequence of an accusation being given equivalent standing to a finding.

All best,


Steve Barber <thumbnailtraveler@verizon.net>
- Monday, November 27 2017 11:2:3

Abuse...and Family

Frank, it's not the gender, it's the idiots who comprise it. I'm often embarrassed by some of the neanderthals who share our hormonal makeup.

On the other hand, those of us who feel a woman (and men for that matter) ought to be respected from the git-go need to be as vocal about it as the women are. I'm a very tactile person, but boundaries are solid, not permeable.

But I have a basic rule when it comes to the selective outrage we're seeing in the press and in the politics: Unless you're willing to stand up beside the assaulted I have little tolerance for your opinion. I have even less use for you if you're being selective in the intolerance.

In other words, if you voted for Trump then your opinion on the matter is moot. You've accepted his abuse of women as acceptable to getting your agenda passed. Same with those who are prepared to vote for Moore.

Consent and of age are the bywords. If you're missing one of those two essential elements you're committing assault. In Moore's case (and Spacey's) you have neither. Vote for Moore and you discount yourself from outrage.

Same goes from the voter for Trump. We knew what he is, and we heard his very own words (though now, like a ten year old, he's insisting it "wasn't me"). You voted for him knowing he was an accused assaulter, so please STFU when it comes to your outrage with anyone else.

I am also concerned with the handing of a tool of destruction to people who simply have a grudge to grind. I was watching an episode of Law and Order SVU yesterday in which an underage kid, guilty of assault and murder, accused Stabler of grabbing his crotch while in custody. It was trumped up, of course, but the presumption of guilt was immediately there for the public and others.

The current epidemic of outrage runs the risk of devaluing the true victims, and creating a handing tool of vengeance for someone who you've merely pissed off in the past.

We're on an important, good but potentially dangerous slope.

EZRA - Hope you had a great Thanksgiving. While the original meaning of Thanksgiving was to "give thanks" to a deity for the blessings of the New World, it also allows us the opportunity to recognize our fortune in secular ways. I am thankful for my friends and family, for the time we were able to sped with my father before he passed away, for my own fortune in finding an amazing woman to spend my life with. Etc.

Being thankful is what's in your heart and thoughts, not just your theology.

Frank Church
- Monday, November 27 2017 9:13:38

Too bad, because Louis CK is such a genius. His joke about how walking around his car is his vacation with his family.

Really too bad. Mens, what is up with us?


Saudi Arabia, we need to drop those turkeys.

They pal with Israel and nobody notices. They fund ISIS! Amazing.

Work with Iran, overthrow Saudis.

Robert Nason <nightriderblue@aol.com>
Whitestone, NY - Monday, November 27 2017 0:8:5

"The idea that a man could actively change that particular point of view, or would want to, never occurred to me."

A view which succinctly demonstrates that a woman can be just as sexist as a man. I'm delighted, Maria, that you were able to evolve.

- Sunday, November 26 2017 23:0:8

Marc Maron recently talked about the Louis CK issue (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rvkm8DPbWgc), and he made a very interesting remark: "I'm trying to access the empathy and the understanding of this implicit and malignant age-old power dynamic so I can grow and help change things. This is obviously a fucking massive, turbulent learning moment for men... if you choose to take the education." That, and, "You can know enough to behave."

By no means has Marc Maron been a saint in his life, and even he cops to his "toxicity" in regards to how he used to treat women, even going so far as to put a percentage on it. He's a decent enough guy, in general; I've met him numerous times, he got me into the Comedy Store for free, and I like his comedy style. But even if he's not the best spokesperson to come along, I found that it came as a relief to hear these particular words of clarity. Just that basic recognition of the opportunity being presented for men to understand is something I never really expected to encounter. To me and my GenX Midwestern-rooted mind, either a guy was aware enough of his treatment of women, or he wasn't. The idea that a man could actively change that particular point of view, or would want to, never occurred to me.

- Sunday, November 26 2017 20:41:28

Thanksgiving is an interesting concept when you're an unbeliever. You still tend to feel a sense of gratitude for the all the good things that come your way but who exactly do you thank? When I think of all the potential human beings that might have resulted from the union of my parents, many perhaps most smarter, healthier, happier, that I am the one the one who got to be here fills me with joy at my good fortune. That feeling will have to suffice.


A week or so ago was the 140th birthday of WILLIAM HOPE HODGSON. In honor of the centenary next year of his death by German artillery shell at Ypres in the waning days of WWI, new editions of his work are being published. NIGHT SHADE PRESS is reissuing their five volume "collected edition" for completists. The wonderful Irish publisher SWAN RIVER PRESS is coming out with an edition of THE HOUSE ON THE BORDERLAND. I have a couple volumes from SWP and they do really good work. That one will be hard to resist.

HOUSE is deservedly famous and is the one you should read first if you don't know Hodgson's work but I think the best stuff he produced were his supernatural sea stories. What Hodgson did better than anybody is to sustain the creepy mood. (Jeez you don't know what might be swimming around down there just waiting for some poor bastard to lean too far over the railing.) See if you can find a collection entitled ADRIFT ON THE HAUNTED SEAS from COLD SPRING PRESS. Aside from the great stories you get a couple essays as a bonus; one on the sinking of the Titanic (written shortly after the event) and a memoir of what it was like to experience a typhoon at sea. Hodgson knew whereof he spoke; he ran away from home at 13 and a spent nearly a decade at sea.


I just finished an interesting book by GEOFF DYER entitled ZONA which is basically an extended essay on ANDREI TARKOVSKY's film STALKER. Dyer walks through the movie, free associating and chasing rabbits all the way. (Some of the footnotes go on for pages.) It is a personal and even idiosyncratic view of the movie. You won't agree with everything he says - I certainly didn't - but what difference does that make? Here is a guy crazy mad in love with movies in general and Tarkovsky in particular. Mucho spoilers of course but Tarkovsky's films are so much about the experience of watching them that there is sense in which they are unspoilable. But I doubt anybody will read this book unless they are already interested in the movie. Dyer achieves one goal anyway. He makes me want to see the film again.

- Sunday, November 26 2017 13:55:45

Please, no comments about the Evil Kirk from _The Enemy Within_

Jeff R.
Philadelphia, - Sunday, November 26 2017 13:29:36

Ms. Whitney
If you read her book, between the lines, her assailant was probably Roddenberry. Why am I not surprised?

- Sunday, November 26 2017 11:24:38

Grace Lee Whitney ...
I was watching the "Treksgiving" marathon on BBC America.

I would like to just take a moment to mention that Grace Lee Whitney was one of the earliest members of the group of people who are now coming forward to accuse the men of the entertainment industry of sexual assault.

She did it back in 1998, long before the current groundswell of outrage. I wish like hell she'd lived to see this.

shagin <smodell1995@yahoo.com>
Bremerton, WA - Friday, November 24 2017 23:8:41

United States
Still here, still lurking, still writing. I turned 50 this year and celebrated with a tattoo that is a tree of words (half finished, will take care of the rest in 2 weeks). These are quotes, song titles, and compliments that have inspired my own writing, two of which come from Harlan: SHATTERDAY (the first book of his I ever read); and "The story rang a black bell in my heart" (the greatest compliment on a story I have ever received).

Other than that, YJ is alive and kicking. He has an on-call manual labor job which continues to teach him about the value of working with others and not insulting his bosses (ouch!). His brother turns 21 this year, and will eventually be moving out of the house to live in an assisted care facility. Hubby and I made this decision years ago, knowing that James needs to find a way to continue on after we are gone. Doesn't make that decision any easier.

Hoping all is well, and that folks are safe.


largo, fl. - Friday, November 24 2017 19:20:19

This Stallone story, not going away...
Studios have equity in his outstanding citizenry. Payouts expected. Mel Gibson must be waiting in the wings.

Brian Phillips <luciuscyrene@gmail.com>
McDonoubh, GA - Friday, November 24 2017 9:57:58

Thanksgiving Paul Hull update. Progress!
From Kathrine Hull:

The day has been really busy for us, a day of firsts.
Paul had his surgery this morning and did well. He has a trache and a feeding tube, which do not have to be permanent. Paul passed several tests with his new equipment and is essentially breathing on his own, with oxygen. He is also off sedation and on some different pain medication, so he is not as groggy as he was.
He looks at myself and Kirin and we see real recognition. We see his familiar expressions..grumpy face, really mad face, sad face, loving face. He is trying to talk, although he can’t yet because the size of the tube prevents it. He also was able to answer a question by shaking his head no, also the first time we’ve seen this happen.
We weren’t sure that Paul could move any of his face or his neck, so we are thrilled.
With everything going well, he will probably be released to a long term acute injury rehab facility next week. Here, he will get the neuro rehabilitation he needs. Paul has a very long road ahead of him, but we all know he can do it.
His nurse tonight told us she is the one who admitted him when he arrived early Monday. She told us how happy she is to see him moving, because when he arrived they were afraid they were going to lose him. ❤️
But he’s still here, and still fighting. We all know Paul is as stubborn as hell and I’m glad he is.
Have a great holiday friends. I’m going to be giving thanks for all your thoughts and prayers, your messages of encouragement, your love and friendship, and for Paul still being here.

- Brian Phillips

Chuck Messer
- Thursday, November 23 2017 12:41:58


Happy Thanksgiving to all!


Dennis C
Glendale, CA - Wednesday, November 22 2017 21:28:15

A Lit Fuse review
Another review of A LIT FUSE:


Incidentally, Nat Segaloff is appearing at the Hollywood Heritage Museum on December 2nd (I plan on getting my copy of A LIT FUSE signed):


Brian Phillips
McDonough, Georgia - Wednesday, November 22 2017 11:3:37

Paul Hull Updates 11/22

"Paul has been pretty stable. His fever is down and we are awaiting results on his white blood cell count. His pneumonia is still there, but it is not getting worse.
Tomorrow he will be having a tracheostomy. He will have the tube in his neck rather than in his mouth.
I struggled with this when it was first mentioned to me days ago. However I’m more accepting of it now. Overall this is good for P, because we would hate to take him off the breathing tube completely and have him struggle or not able to keep his airway clear. Doctors are not concerned about his breathing capabilities, they say they can’t tell if Paul will be able to do things like swallow or clear his throat...the things we take for granted that help keep us alive.
After speaking with his wonderful RT, I’m feeling even better. Alfredo told me it is easier to get P off the ventilator once he has the tracheostomy.
Today I felt brave enough to stay with P during his physical therapy. He was sitting upright for a short time using his own muscles. He has to keep working so he does not lose that strength.
Today we ask for:
Calmness in the wake of a massive change.
A successful procedure tomorrow for paul’s tracheostomy.
Knowledgeable and kind staff, which have been in abundance.
Paul’s cognitive ability and his ability to stay awake and aware.
We ask that Paul knows how special he is and how many people love him and miss his voice, his laugh, and his larger than life presence.
Thank you and I will update when possible."


"Hello friends and family,
Paul has just been taken to the operating room. The procedure should last a little over an hour.
We ask for a smooth procedure with no complications, excellent doctors and nurses, and a fast recovery. We ask that this helps Paul get off the ventilator as soon as possible, and that he continues to show improvement everyday.
When Paul is out, I will update.
Thank you for your prayers and good vibes."

- Brian Phillips

Chuck Messer
- Tuesday, November 21 2017 8:20:36

As I understand it, Paul was in a car accident. It must have been a doozy, since his injuries have been extensive.

I didn't get to know him well, but we did become friends on Facebook and our senses of humor seemed to mesh pretty well.

I hope for his continued recovery.


- Monday, November 20 2017 11:42:6

Does anybody know what type of accident Paul had? I don't believe privacy should be an issue since were getting very detailed reports of his ongoing medical crisis.

Brian Phillips
McDonough, GA - Monday, November 20 2017 9:48:19

More on Paul Hull
Hello, everyone. Nothing is linear in his recovery process. Here are the last two updates:

From Kathrine:

"I spent the night at the hospital last night because Paul wanted me to. He was as awake & as aware as I’d seen him since the accident. He was answering questions by squeezing my hand, and when I asked if he wanted me to stay he squeezed.
I’m very tired today and so is Paul. He had 2 MRIs yesterday because the machine failed during his first. He had an ultrasound to search for DVT (negative). We have also found out Paul has pneumonia but we’ve be treating him with antibiotics and are confident it will be taken care of soon.
We continue to ask for help keeping his fever away.
We ask for his pneumonia to clear up.
We ask for more big cognitive improvements.
We ask for Paul’s comfort and pain level to get even better.
We ask for total healing from all of Paul’s injuries.
We ask that the medical staff continue to treat us well and find ways to make Paul feel better ASAP.
Have a good Sunday, friends."


"Today has had ups and downs. Paul had a great morning but it turned into a pretty bad afternoon/evening. We do know we do have an infection to deal with, so he is on different antibiotics now. His fever got really high today and his heart rate and blood pressure skyrocketed. Thank goodness everything seems to be back in normal range now.
Let’s pray for:
Pneumonia and infection to leave Paul’s body - therefore eliminating his fever.
More responsiveness from Paul when he is feeling better.
Relief from anxiety and a good night’s sleep for all of us.
Goodnight friends. Here’s to a better tomorrow."

- Brian Phillips

Steve Barber <thumbnailtraveler@verizon.net>
- Monday, November 20 2017 9:8:40


First, your response to the 9/11 shot is the same as virtually any competent photojournalist. It's the same response a reporter would have to seeing an article they wish they'd written, even if the topic itself was horrific. You can appreciate and even (shhh) envy the work of another person under unpleasant circumstances. In fact your response of "gee, would I have thought to" is in a way a compliment to their professionalism.

There are solid arguments to be made for photojournalists and reporters/camera crews who witness historic events without jumping to help. We've all had the response of "put down that f*cking camera and HELP" when we see this sort of thing. But on the flip side, there is a place for such work which is quite important.

Examples: The semi-twin shots from the Vietnam era.

The first is of a naked young girl running screaming through the streets after a napalm attack on suspected Viet Cong facility. Nick Ut caught the image as South Vietnamese soldiers drove a dozen terrified children away from the attack.

The second is of the execution of a prisoner in which the photographer caught the exact instant of the assassination. Eddie Adams was the photographer, capturing a police execution of a suspected Viet Cong spy.

I describe them instead if linking because of the knowledge that these iconic images are seared into our collective minds.

In both circumstances our humanity shrieks out for the journalists to drop what they're doing and help. But both shots, now quite famous, helped galvanize the world into action which, eventually, had an impact on the strife in Southeast Asia.

There is no way those thoughts went through the minds of the photographers in question. They simply did their jobs, capturing the essence of war and effect on innocent and not-so-innocent victims.

So, no, I don't criticize you for thinking you wish you'd captured the 9/11 image. We're all guilty of that sort of thinking.

And to the second part of your post: your book.

First: Are you using social media to really talk it up? I agree it's a pertinent story to get out there, particularly in light of the current frenzy. We have a good friend who is gearing up to get her own story of parental abuse - serious sexual abuse from her father - to press. My wife designed the cover.

Get it out there on Twitter, Facebook and Instagram. Go to abuse forums and ask relevant questions, noting you have a book on the topic. Promote it, it needs to be read.

(My family is experiencing much the same response as we see repeated stories of Naval ships ramming or being rammed. My Dad wrote the book - literally, not figuratively - on Naval Shiphandling. It's the family's hope that somehow, some way, the important people start to read/reread it.

(It's required reading for several courses at the Naval Academy. It would seem that the captains of the Pacific fleet have forgotten or lost their copies...)

Good luck. You need to get the word out.

Robert A Nason <nightwriterblue82@gmail.com>
Whitestone, NY - Sunday, November 19 2017 13:6:34

KENNETH -- Don't forget, Harlan also has that deal with the firm in Schenectady that supplies him with ideas every month for a small fee.

MARIA -- I'm reminded of Gore Vidal's famous remark: "Every time one of my friends succeeds, a little something in me dies." Happily, Harlan not only rejoices in the success of his friends, but has enthusiastically promoted the work of other writers whose work he admires.

Douglas Harrison
Kamloops , BC - Sunday, November 19 2017 11:4:48


My heart goes out to Paul and those around him. I will wish for only the best.


- Saturday, November 18 2017 22:43:51

Professional Jealousy
I know this is weird, but if you've ever experienced it, then you know what I'm getting at...

When I was a photographer in the Navy, I saw a terrific photo of a wall of dust and debris as it surged between the buildings while a New York businessman, in mid-stride, briefcase in hand, crossed the street with this tumultuous cloud looming towards him... outside of the horror of what that moment meant (which is only amplified in retrospect, given the rise in cancer cases tied to that dust), I found that I envied the hell out of that photographer for capturing that 9/11 moment on the ground so precisely. The same feeling took hold when I saw photographer Michelle McLoughlin's Reuters photo, of two children standing outside Sandy Hook--the boy covering his face in terror, the girl holding him with her head down.

Just the weirdest thing how, in such moments of obvious suffering, there's some little bit of ego that pipes up, "I wish I'd done that!" because it flies in the face of logic; every photographer worth their kit knows that if "you" were there, there's no guarantee you'd have covered something so succinctly or even got close. In any given tragedy, we're programmed to keep our head down and try to avoid the worst of the trouble.

Anyway, long story short, I'm going through that feeling again now. Sexual harassment stories abound on the news, some with underage abuse allegations, and yet my book on the latter can't make so much as manage one sale. So there it is: stupid and pointless professional jealousy rears its head in the middle of other people's struggles, as the Artist half-wonders if it's possible to capitalize off someone else's pain... but, hey, I ain't-a gonna lie. It's ugly but it's there. (nod to Billy Joel's "You're Only Human")

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