Unca Harlan's Art Deco Dining Pavilion

Archive - 08/08/2007 to 10/07/2007

Unca Harlan's Art Deco Dining Pavilion

HARLAN: I've probably said it before, but I am a HUGE baseball fan. Out of the six thousand books in my tiny hovel, a good several hundred deal with the sport of bat, ball, and glove.

But I'm a homer; much as I respect players on other teams, I can never tear myself away from my beloved Phillies (NEXT year; twenty-eight is the charm ...). In fact, the only major league jerseys I would ever wear not in Phillies red, white, or 70's powder blue would be Mays, Williams, Jackie Robinson, Clemente (Saint 'Berto of San Juan), Hank Greenberg, Mo Berg, Pete Gray, Eddie Gaedel ...
Or Satchel Paige.

So it gives me great pleasure to inform you that comics writer James Sturm, he of THE GOLEM'S MIGHTY SWING, will be coming out with ... wait for it ... SATCHEL PAIGE: STRIKING OUT JIM CROW in December, from Hyperion in conjunction with The Center for Cartoon Studies. (drawn by Rich Tommaso)

Figured it would tickle you to know.

(As for other baseball books of note lately, I would highly recommend 7: THE MICKEY MANTLE NOVEL by sports writer Peter Golenbock. I've never been much of a Mantle fan; too much talent thrown away or thrown down the throat. But this book of reportage told as fiction is perhaps the only thing I've ever seen besides Billy Crystal's 61* which can make me sympathize with the Mick.

Also, be sure to hunt down THE SOUL OF BASEBALL: A ROAD TRIP THROUGH BUCK O'NEIL'S AMERICA by the excellent Kansas City Star sportswriter Joe Posnanski. If it doesn't have you smiling whilst misty-eyed throughout, you cannot be considered a baseball fan.
(and yes; I cry at baseball movies. Sue me.)

One other recommendation, but not a book. Check out http://www.baseball-reference.com for more information and stats about the sport than has ever been compiled in one place. The best thing is that you can make up stats of your own, like Most Doubles in a single season by a left-handed shortstop (Joe Sewell, '27 Indians). It is proof that the Internet is not a waste.

Oh! Also, you might like to know: Despite my homer tendencies, I will be pulling for your Indians to take the World Series trophy this year now that my Phils are (sob!) out of the hunt. First because I want to see Kenny Lofton with a ring, and second, because fifty-nine years is too long to wait.

Over the weekend, all this stuff about Blackwater inspired me to revisit the old Warren Beatty film THE PARALLAX VIEW. A true tribute to the fanatic's conviction in privatizing everything. (Sans regulation yet!)

The whole Bush/Cheney/Republican Neo-Con trip is getting creepier every day. And I've been listening more more to former Counsel to Nixon, John Dean on the subject; the sound bytes on so much falsified documentation he'd discovered amplifies the whole nightmare.

That's as good as this weekend got for ME!

and now something entirely different
Harlan
I was digging through my collection of books looking for some things that i had not gotten around to reading, with a large collection some things get hidden away, sometimes for years. I'm reading alot of landsdale right now and also i have come across several anthologies of the strange and horrible and in one titled Bordrlands, a well known series, i was surprised to find a story of yours titled Scartaris, June 28th. All i can say is I need to dig around more to find these hidden gems, incredible Harlan. Also I have a question for you, I'm a music junkie,like yourself, all kinds from Miles Davis to the Boss to CSNY to Cash. I read recently two books about the canyon scene of L.A. and the strip during the mid 60's to the late 70's.One titled laurel Canyon by Michael Walker and the other Hotel California and the true life stories of CSNY, Mitchell, Taylor, Browne, Ronstandt, Geffen and the Eagles by Barney Hoskyns...you wouldn't have wandered up laurel some Sat. afternoon in 69 or so, or up above the canyons to Mulholland to Jack or Marlons place and have any interesting stories to tell? I know your a busy guy but have you thought about writing your biography?? what a book it would be, sorry for the long post...go Indians.

Second Package -Zoiks, and away!
HARLAN: Due to the extremely chaotic conditions of the past few months and the fact that I DID NOT get any more than 2 or 3 hours of sleep during each of the past two nights -- if ANYone goes to Lee's Summit Missouri, avoid the Holiday Inn Express hotel off 291 (exit 12) AT ALL COSTS!! -- ...where was I?
Oh, yeah! Because I've been sleepless in a sea of obnoxious and discourteous (or average, at least around KC) Americans, I forgot to include an important thingee inside the package sent to you and Susan. Therefore, your four-pack of Wizard of Oz refrigerator magnets are on the way, as of yesterday. Whenever you are in need of help from your internet hoards, remember to whip out the "Don't Make Me Get My Flying Blue Monkeys!" magnet!

(Hey, this posting without recourse -- because I'm using another one o' these public forums -- is addictive! Webderland: Meet your new troll!!!! Ha, ha! Zoiks, and away!)

We fly tomorrow (gulp -- and yeeeeaaah)!
--DTS
P.S. Remember to check out 60 minutes tonight, 'cause Bruce (Springsteen) Almighty is being profiled!

KOS:

I live to serve your tiniest, most crample-hamm'd desire. No sooner asked-for than delivered, effendi:

Satchel Paige, a lifelong idol from my witling days till now, appears, along with many other members of the World Champion 1948 Cleveland Indians, in a story not so many years old, titled "Goodbye to All That." It can be found, in its entirety, in HARLAN ELLISON'S DREAM CORRIDOR, Volume 2, from Dark Horse.

Tsk-tsk, that you knew it not. Tsk, and I say yet once more, tsk, KOS-san.

Yr. Pal, Harlan

Gotsta have dem facts???

Would those be the actual-facts facts or would those be the facts-bent-to-suit-a-higher-cause facts? Would that be evidence-not-tainted-by-the-suits evidence or evidence-properly-bent-by-us-champions-of-the-greater-good evidence?

Not weighing in on either side of the John Reed question because I haven't read enough by or about him. But I'd like to suggest, Frank, that you don't just shoot yourself in the foot when you make statements such as the one in the first paragraph of your last post -- you damn near blow your whole leg off.

How do any of us talk facts or evidence or common sense or much of anything else with each other if we can all feel free to bend the truth to suit whatever we think is a greater cause?


Bests to all,

--tr

SIMON VAUGHAN:

What Steve Barber said. In spades. To the max. Nth degree.

It continues to unman me, that even after all that has been said, all that has gone before, all the simple and easy-to-get straightforward COPYRIGHT FOR DUMMIES explanations that have made the legal and moral position explicable even to a fence-post, that seemingly otherwise intelligent persons STILL ... amazingly ... bewilderingly ... STILL, apparently, beyond belief, dyslectically DO NOT GET IT !!!

No brickbat, merely astonishment. Exactly how many times must some people have it explained to them that The Earth Is Not Flat, but if you choose to sail off the edge it's okay with me, just Don't Shanghai Me Aboard for the Unwanted Voyage?!!?

Yr. Pal, Harlan

KOS, how was John Reed a "pathological liar?" You need to give evidence and not just the stuff you read in the National Review or worse, Commentary. He may have bended the truth to suit a higher cause, which I fully support. Gotsta have dem facts, kid.

Progressive don't mean commie, it means the anti-slavery movements, the women's rights movements, the civil rights movements, etc...they built modern democracy and without them America would be a fascist state.

Sure it's fun to read wacky stuff, but if you don't learn any thing from it what is the point. You also never told me why you still aspire to being right wing? you do know the evidence is amazingly tipped to our side.

Evidence means things not tainted by elite hands. Never trust dem suits, natch.

I will take Naomi Klein over Che any ole day. she is alot cuter and much more alive. Yum.

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Will the fucking Yankees just lose already and get it over with. Not that big on the Indians, but damn, even Satan would be preferable to Steinbrenner's pigs. My rule, you buy wins you deserve to lose your ass. White collar teams are so over.

I feel for poor Joe Torre.

--------------

Great piece in Rolling Stone about the hapless, lumpen John McCain and his sinking battle-ship-of-shame.

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It seems the United States has been training Sunni extremists, brought in from Saudi Arabia to help Fatah stop the success of Hamas and Hezbollah. It backfired, as Hamas sent the motherfuckers packing. Seems the US wanted to foment a civil war in the occupied territories so that the peace process could never happen and Israel could continue to erect settlements.

The Al Qaeda of tommorow, funded by our wonderful government now. Sound familiar?

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Columbus was a monster, like Hitler, like Stalin, like Mao, like Pol Pot. We will have parades in his honor. Zeig Heil.

Quick addendum: I did not mean to imply that either scrib'd or Burgomeister posted the works of any of the below listed artist. They both illegally posted copyrighted works of writers without the permission of the copyright owners.

Norman Spinrad has every right to post his work wherever he sees fit. The brickbats are reserved for those people who post the works WITHOUT the consent of the artists or their agents.

That, in fact, is the core source of the brickbatting. If you post one of Harlan's stories, one of Adam-Troy's articles, one of Rob van Gessel's drawings, one of my photos, or one of John Pacer's paintings -- all of which are copyrighted works -- without our personal permission (which was done repeatedly by such sites as Scribd.com and my buddy the Burgomeister) you deserve your head delivered back to you en brouchette.

Spinrad CHOOSES this form of distribution, it wasn't chosen FOR him without his permission. THAT is the point of our repeated rants.

And yes, I need coffee.

I remember someone posting about the possibility of alternative views on copyright, and being roundly called a fool or worse for his/her troubles.

Perhaps Mr. Spinrad has offered such a view that won't so easily bring out the brickbats?

Lakefront Stadium
A few years ago I picked up on the day after New Years Day a cheap calendar (Does ANYone buy calendars the day BEFORE New Years Day for full-price?). Said calendar had twelve beautiful color reproductions of original paintings of major league ballparks.

One painting caught my eye: it was of a view from the upper deck, top row, right behind the plate of a game from 1954. The painting showed this -immense- stadium. Of course it was Cleveland's Lakefront Stadium. Apparently Lakefront held somethng like eighty-thousand baseball fans. Most Major League stadiums can hold, tops, fifty. Many, like that Bandbox From Hell otherwise known as "Fenway Park" (I am an Angels fan) host much less. The stands spread out forever to left and right, towering verandahs of shade and comfort. And then there was the field. That glorious sward of emerald just went on and on. Center field looked as if it reached half a mile into the gloaming. Beyond, if I recall rightly, was the lake.

It was awe inspiring. Like the scene in "2001" where Jupiter fills the screen, and the title below says "Jupiter - And Beyond, The Infinite".

The painting actually showed a moment in a game, the players standing where they actually would have, the score, the batter's coumt, the scores on the score board all as they actually had been. A moment in time from a game of infinite possibility. What I would not give to own the original painting!

Of all the stadiums I never got to watch a game in, that's the one I feel the worst about.

And you saw Satchel Paige.

At an official age of 42, Paige became the oldest rookie in Major League baseball history, and the first black pitcher. Paige soon proved he could still pitch and ended the year with a 6-1 record with a 2.48 ERA, 45 strikeouts and two shutouts.

Did you ever write a baseball story, and/or one with Satch in it?

I am going to be the most presumptuous I will ever be with you: if you have not, you ought.

I still have the calendar, if you want a print of the calendar page I refer to, I think I can wing it on my large format color doo-hickus.

KOS

PS

Yes, Frank. I Know the history of what you insist on calling "American Progressivism". Sure, from Upton Sinclair and EPIC to the union wars, and LaFollette of Wisonsin and IWW "One Big Union" and Joe Hill and yadda yadda.

Yep, I gots me friends who were Communists, and others who were socialists, and a couple who still are one or t'other, every one of 'em was/is more radical than you on your worst day.

As in their grandfather knew John Reed and was on the founding committee for the CPUSA, and they used to have posters of Karl Marx and Mao on their bedroom walls so they could dedicate even their sleeping hours to the dialectic. All that jazz.

Hell, I even sat through "REDS" while Warren Beatty turned a pathological liar into a secular saint, and didn't walk out of the theater. I viewed it as dark comedy of the best sort, even though inadvertent.

I know many of the stories, most of the traditions, and that Americans just need to be brought to realize that they really ae radical, if they would just embrace their own heritage.

It's all bullshit, but I am well versed in most forms of bullshit, so why not this also?

Know thy enemy, and that sort of thing, in other words.

Just my opinion. My informed opinion. I have shelves full of books with titles such as "In Defense Of Anarchism" and "The Jungle". Authors such as Proudhon, Bakunin and Orwell (his essays on the Spanish Anarchists are priceless) abound in my Scholars Mistress.

I even correspond with people such as David Greaeber (anarchist writer and anthropologist, formerly of Yale, now at the London School of Economics) and Douglas Lain (notorious Seattle Progressive SF writer and activist).

I think I could even hold a civil conversation with Cory Doctorow.

Not that you were trying to be patronizing, but you can't patronize me.

KOS

Spinrad on Scribd.com
http://www.scribd.com/doc/326098/OSAMA-THE-GUNnovel-portion-

is where Norman has posted - with an explanation - the first third of his as-yet-unpublished novel, OSAMA THE GUN.

JOSH - If you have not yet noticed, Stephen King entitled this week's column in Entertainment Weekly "A HISTORY OF VIOLENCE", and uses the film as a stepping-off point for his comments.

Just thought you'd like to see it if you hadn't.

BBC Arena on Superman
For those who have downloaded the BBC iPlayer, they'd be interested in an old BBC Arena documentary on Superman from the early 1980's. Interesting for a excerpt from Will Eisner's lecture to students discussing Superhero characters. Check it out.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/

The Man with the Scarf, et al.
Jason M. - lots of people have made that mistake about me, even among those who know me. Ain't no thang.

Steve Evil - Genesis of the Daleks by Ellison? Yeah, I kinda can imagine it, actually: "I am a Dalek, I have no mouth. And I must scream, "EXTERMINAAAAAATE!!!"

Also, re: the Schindler's List/terrorists thread - I'm YouTubeless at this terminal and haven't seen the video, so I've no idea if it's at all relevant, but I did want to relate an interesting incident that happened when the movie played here. The local foetus fetish brigades were out in force around town at the time, and had a regular and predictable habit of shooting themselves in their collective foot every time they tried some "save the fetii" tactic.

Well, they sure done did it when Schindler's came out, waiting around outside the theater to hand out "ABORTION = HOLOCAUST" flyers to people departing the movie. Some of the folks who received these were not too pleased about it, particularly among the local Jewish community. (There was an even bigger row raised not long after when they started distrubuting glossy color 8x10s of foetus salsa in random people's mailboxes and mixed in with their Sunday papers...)

The Man with the Scarf.
"Genesis of the Daleks" by Harlan Ellison. Could you imagine?

I do have that intro, and I think he nails it, putting into words what I've always attempted to.

Marvelous as the new series is, it can never compare with that original discovery week after week of something wonderous and magical. Watching that while growing up tought me more about right and wrong and ethical behaviour than reading the Bible ever did.

Fully Upgraded,

-Steve E.

P.S. The series two finale was rubbish. We all know the Cybermen could kick the Daleks' ass!

The Missing Crackle -- and note
HEY HARLAN: A dog-tired Dorman here, typing through the good offices of a local library and my kid's lending card. Don't start screaming and kicking or anything, but...it's been a helluva a week/month/Fall, and I didn't get a chance to pick up the crackle before being relegated to my particular circle (where internet connections don't exist, romper/stompers live above our heads and slamming doors are all the rage). So...no crackle in the package mailed off to you a day or two ago.

But!!!
You did get a copy of the "Book" issue with the article on author's "stunts" (yours being writing in windows) and it is bookmarked (pun unintended) by several old photos of you and the Electric Babe: at the Denver Horror Convention in 2000, and in front of the NLB Museum. As a little something extra, I included a copy of "Buck" O'Neil's jersey when he played with the Kansas City Monarchs. Tres cool, and all the rage when you next visit KC for some good BBQ eats.

I'll write you guys when I get to Melbourne (we fly on the 8th -- finally! -- and send you lots of love via postcards, pictures and...a renewal of my subscription to HERC). You'll be pleased to know that I've been staring at a reasonable facsimile of your face as I type this -- it's emblazoned on my daughter's chest! No, no, no, no! She didn't get the latest in tattoos. She's wearing my old "Graffti Designs" tshirt which has that great Kent Bash drawing on it. We figure it'll scare off all of the were-wallabies that confront us once we get Down Under! (Even better than Silver Bullets: the stern, no-nonsense countenance of Unca Harlan).

Till Sometime after Oct 8th,
I remain your son by another mother,
Dorman (XXXOOO)

Kos, he meant that according to very good public opinion the public largely supports pretty radical ideas, like higher taxes for corporations, more international cooperation, even a reducing of the defense budget; no Democrat, no matter how liberal, would even go for that. The public favors socialized medicine and are mostly against unilateral interventions. Propaganda and economic, social diversions are what keeps the public from understanding their latent leftism. Hell, how many people know about the history of the modern progressive movement? Do you?

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Ray, now you can do better then that. Osama also quotes from Bush. Hitler used to quote FDR, does that mean FDR was happy about what Hitler did? Come on man, that was low.

The left warned America about Islamic radicalism way before anyone else did. We told America not to fund the crazies that fought the USSR in Afghanistan; we warned about supporting the Saudi Arabian royal family. Blowback is a bitch and she has lipstick that doesn't wash away.

Harlan Ellison's request for the Schindler's List YouTube DVD
I'll burn it to DVD for you. I was able to do it before.

Brian Phillips, who thinks that "gardyloo" sounds like Stanley Unwin describing "one who protects".

Harlan- you're welcome jz

$ ( or -c-? )
A quick thought on future gift giving to Harlan:

How about throwing a coupla bucks to Rick Wyatt, Harlan's long suffering webmaster? This website is a labor of love, but a little change tossed in the general direction of Rick's PayPal account (does that still exist, Rick?) would help defray some of the costs.

As we all know, love don't come cheap.

Just a thought.

Thanks, Jan.

Thanks for the gift, Jon Manzo.

Thanks for the gift, Ryan Leasher.

Thanks for the gift, Leigh Blackmore.

Thanks for the gift, John Zeock.

Thanks for the gift, Doug Alexander.

Thanks for the gift thanks for the gift thanks for the gift thanks for the gift thanks for the gift thanks for the gift thanks for the gift thanks for the gift thanks for the gift thanks for the gift thanks for the gift thanks for the gift thanks for the gift thanks for the fucking gifts already!!!

Yr. thankful pal, Harlan

You ask if I am an Indians fan.

I'm the guy from Cleveland who, in 1948, saw Satchel Paige pitch in the Major Leagues for the first time, in the old Lakefront Stadium in Cleveland.

Am I an Indians fan?

Who wouldn't be after watching Kenny and Perez and C.C. (once he setttled down) kick acres and acres of serious Yankee butt last night!?! CUH-LEEVE-UH-LUHND ROCKS!

Further, deponent sayeth not

I've send the owner of the video an e-mail with your address, so if he checks his mails I'm sure he'll turn up here and you'll get a decent-quality copy from him.

JAN or ANYBODY ELSE WHO CAN DO THE JOB:

If y'all scroll to Jan's last post, you'll see he gives a URL on YouTube that brings up my bud Joe Straczynski retelling the fabulous incident of Joe&Harlan&TheTerrorists at "Schindler's List." I gather it is copacetic to download the YouTube stuff, and I would dearly adore having a copy of Joe's narration--far more tame than when I tell it--for the archive. I will recompense whoever can pull this and send it to me c/o HERC...or my home if you are a close enough friend to have it.

Thank you in advance. Yr. Pal, Harlan

October Country
A few months ago, in their corporate wisdom, my company moved me to a new office at twice the commuting distance from home, as well as three times the distance from my actual responsibilities.

Until today I haven't seen much good or enticing in the move.

My little gray cube (another change from my previous office) sits a handful of feet from the emergency stairwell. Other than the occasional amusement when someone gets trapped, this has been a selling point only when the alarms sound.

But...

It's a blustery day here in the OC, and I have found a positive to my prison.

On blustery days, the wind slips into the stairwell, and escapes into the suite with a low tone strongly reminiscent of the sound of the wind in the TWILIGHT ZONE episode THE GRAVE. (That's the episode where a cowboy accepts a bet to stab the grave of a dead outlaw -- he is later found dead of a heart attack himself, with his cloak pinned to the grave by his own knife.)

That sound effect, and others like it, gave me hours of the creeps growing up, in a very good way. It's one of those things that just cuts right through me and makes me smile -- happily but nervously.

It's a wonderfully surreal sign that it's October, even in the OC.

Noam Chomsky
When none other than Osama Bin Laden, hisownself, quotes with relish (hold the mustard) the words of Noam Chomsky, as he did in his last video, well... Noam must be very proud indeed.

W. Powell
Mistook your amusement for confusion. Sorry.

HERC INFO FOR MITCH
Mitch,

It costs USD 15.00 to join HERC, and that gets you six issues of the Rabbit Hole newsletter--which is, of course, the coolest newsletter in the known universe. Send a cheque or money order to The Harlan Ellison Recording Collection, P.O. Box 55548, Sherman Oaks, CA 91413-0548.

By the way, you owe me a dog from Pink's, just mustard.

D.

eBay/Daleks, cont'd
Jason M. - Oh yeah, I'd definitely scrolled down to look at the entire description before posting about it, and I've no more doubt than you that it's unintentional. I also own a copy of the book, so I'm only too aware of who wrote what therein (right down to the Terry Nation credit for having created the Daleks). Just thought it was a momentarily amusing diversion at the very least.

That said, although I've been reading quite a few of those old novelizations for backstory to the new revived series, I've still ended up being a good deal more entertained by HE's intro to the Pinnacle editions than by most (not all) of the actual televised episodes of old-school Doctor Who that I've seen.

(A quote from our illustrious host therein bears repeating here: "I envy you your first exposure to this amazing conceit. And I wish for you the same delight I felt when Michael Moorcock, the finest fantasist in the English-speaking world, sat me down in front of his set in London, turned on the telly, and said, 'Now be quiet and just watch.'" Though the new show's certainly become my latest obsession as regards the vidiot box, some night when I've a bit more time I'll relate the less-than-optimal experience that said first viewing entailed for me.)

Mr. Chisel


Dear Confused in California,

Mr. Chisel means no disrespect. It's not his name that holds meaning but what he is. I thought you might get a kick out of it after our last conversation about Ray and his Sharpie-signing tendencies. Yeah, I realize it's late for the joke, but it was inexpensive and thought it might get a laugh. I did not realize that I would end up afraid that thunder might rain down from the hills.

I have been enlightened; it shan't happen again.

--
Ryan

herc
I know it's been covered over and over again, but I've looked through several days worth of posts and I can't find any reference to HERC. There's a reference to it on the website, but I don't think the price is correct. Can someone please provide me with the correct information? I'd really appreciate it.


thanks
Mitch Keith

...It would be interesting to see: Harlan REFUSING to be faithful to his own story...

Well, my thoughts are drifting today.

I was just thinking about Harlan's earlier reference to versing in history of the American West, or lacking thereof, that might have otherwise inspired him to write more stories in the genre.

A couple o'years ago, I got semi-obsessed with the "myth versus reality" of the Old West. I began grabbing books about it, and even a high-grade magazine called The Old West, which had just come out with its first issue, all exposing the bullshit the public could no longer recognize as myth since the 1890's (thereby reinforcing so many stereotypes and false fears).

It can really can get fascinating:

There was the complex story of the deceptive advertising put out by big business (esp. the railroads), with help from the government, urging pioneers to move out West and take the vast fertile land awaiting them - only for the pathetic wretches to learn, after traveling over a thousand miles, that it was mostly rock and dirt, completely barren and infertile.

There was the story about Coca-Cola, which was originally developed in the U.S. as a cure for headaches, derived from a German drug company that has been producing cocaine for the market.

Cities and towns everywhere stank like all holy hell - with so much manure, mud and water in the streets as populations grew. Cities would inevitably become petri dishes for deadly disease.

There's the story about real gunslingers versus the ones romanticized in the movies: the real ones more often got the opponent by surprise; visibility for a clear target was very poor because the pistols produced so much smoke.

In the 1820s, steam boats brought pioneers to starting point of Oregon and Santa Fé Trail.

Around 1860, the Pony Express service connected the East and the West. Couriers carried letters from Missouri to California in 10 days. The route - like a militia - contained 190 stations, about 80 riders and 500 horses. But because the charges did not meet the costs, the system was financially unsuccessful, and the express went bankrupt.

The Indians: From what I've read, they were murdered not simply because their land was needed - because, in reality, arrangements could have been made as the land was wide enough for everyone - but because of outright intolerance. MOST whites really believed the natives a threat to the Myth of the White Man, and the more Indians eliminated the better.

SCALPING - long identified as almost innate behavior of American Indians - had been long practiced in Europe and Asia. In the earlier colonial years, the western border of the colonies was being populated with settlers that were comprised of a shitload of dubious types. Outlaws, runaways, and so on. With them they brought disease and alcohol. The frontier was a breeding ground for conflict with the Indian population. Initially the frontiersmen turned on the Indians in an attempt to move their asses off the land. When the Indians retaliated, the settlers turned to the government for help. The settlers demanded retribution for the Indian reprisals. The Dutch, and soon after the English, government created the scalp bounty as a means to pacify the settlers. Simply, they paid a fee for each scalp that was delivered to the locally appointed magistrate.

The first reported case of white men scalping Native Americans
took place in a New Hampshire colony in 1725.

Thus, although, from my understanding, a few Indian tribes HAD practiced scalping to a limited extent before the Europeans arrived, it was clear that it was more largely an act taught them by Europeans - when tribes experienced first hand the image of their families and friends mutilated after an attack by white settlers. Scalping would become a practiced response in kind.

And then later, in the 19th century, pioneers of the First Frontier, who did all the discovery, were cheated by the pioneers of civilization of the second Frontier - largely due to laws that were easily disputed.

The term 'Manifest Destiny' was used by the Americans as a justification for the territorial expansion of the United States. The term was used to defend the Mexican War, the Alaska Purchase and the Spanish-American War, all ending in territorial gains for the United States. It would also be implemented without conscience by the wealthiest, at the expense of those who had little or nothing. That's the reason regulation would be resisted until the 20th century came along.

Due to the increasing violence, especially in the Californian mining regions, people were often forced to take the law in their own hands. These mostly often self-appointed lawmen were called regulators or vigilantes. After brief trials, bold claim jumpers or criminals were often hanged, flogged or driven out of the camp.

Since it was financially more lucrative to be a lawman, many former outlaws had become sheriffs. A sheriff who executed arrest warrants and judgments, would get money for those arrests and also a certain percentage of the taxes he collected.

Even though the image of the lawmen is a good one in films and novels, reality proved to be different. Personal interests and revenge were easier to achieve with a badge on the breast.

N'then thar's th' Cowboy. Ever stalwart in the movies, the REAL cowfolk was in fact a poorly paid laborer doing a tough and monotonous job. Cowboys became important after the mid-1860's, after the Civil war as the range cattle industry developed. The majority of the cowboys came from the South, just because the ranges were in the South, but there also existed cowboys from Northern States. Most of the had fought in the Civil War. There were also blacks and Mexicans that were cowboys, not all of them were whites. The year of a cowboy focused on two events, the roundup and the long drive. Spring and often fall were the times for roundups. The cowboy had to drive the cattle together at a certain location and then the newborn calves were branded and the older animals were castrated and dehorned. Further, the cattle which will be sold on the market are selected.


After 1890, the cattle ranges had been fenced in and the railroad system had extended to remove the need for long cattle drives. Thus, the cowboy era was over. In literature, however, the cowboy era begun and although the upcoming image of a cowboy was not realistic, it continued to dominate the popular stories of the cattle frontier.

The term Cowboy was used as an invective against all characters who appeared to be asocial, a cowboy was described as a rough guy with stare eyes, putting his trousers in big boots. The cowboy is another example for converting something alien into something native. In the 19th century, nothing was less American for the Yankee than the cowboy, and now nothing seems to be more American than "The Great American Cowboy".

Yet, the cowboys found freedom without violence, and it gave mobility to different races. Many blacks and whites co-mingled as cowboys.

Getting back to frontier life, life expectancy was generally very short. The endless strain of hard work, childbearing, and sickness, in addition to the fear of Indian attacks, caused most women to grow old before the age of 40.

Many stories of the real life back then are well-documented in the magazine "The Old West". Every one of 'em pulls you in, forcing you to imagine the chances of your own survival in such a world. I only got a few issues. I may go out there and start getting them again.

Noam Chomsky?
Noam Chomsky said: "...it's not too well known but in the United States, there was never a powerful organized left, but in many ways it's one of the most leftist societies in the world."

and Noam Chomsky also said: "You know it's kind of suppressed by lots of propaganda and repression and so on, but it's just below the surface..."

Breathtaking.

Brilliant.

Just brilliant.

"Why, yes, Noam, now that you mention it, the Emperor DOES have rather nice new clothes! Why didn't -I- see that?"

Cleveland's winning. Are you an Indians' fan, Harlan?

KOS

Thank you, Scott. I have now (finally!) seen The Discarded. I loved it, very good interpretation of the story. Thanks to Harlan and Josh for being so faithful to the story, right to the inevitable painful ending.

Favorite western movie: It would be a tie between High Noon and the Big Country. High Noon had it all and I love the synchronistic time thing.

As for The Big Country, Gregory Peck was in his prime. This is a terrific movie for heterosexual females; I admit that part of my appreciation for this movie is seeing Peck looking better than any man has a right to look. Burt Lancaster didn't look too bad, either. Burl Ives was brilliant. The story was classic but well plotted and paced. And there was that great theme music....

Derek Anderson: I am a teacher, have taught high school recently, was just transferred to teaching adults (I work in a state hospital). If I understand the copyright laws in regard to teaching literature in a classroom, if you are using copies to teach students, I do not think that violates the copyright laws. That's assuming you don't let copies of it out of your classroom and that you do have a copy or copies of the book purchased for classroom use. If I am wrong, someone here please correct me.

Ellison mention in Kevin Smith interview
Did anybody catch this? Harlan is mentioned briefly in a new interview with director Kevin Smith over at IGN.com. Here's the link. Go to the bottom of the page, where Smith and the interviewer are talking about Terminator:

http://tv.ign.com/articles/822/822775p2.html

J

Chomsky, Chomsky, haha:

http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?SectionID=45&ItemID=13946

Pirates of Dark Water
There's some nostalgia for you.

Jan - I was once the 'kung fu grip demonstration dummy' for Harlan's retelling of the "Schindler's List" tale. (I really need to get a copy of that video - who's got Foolscap?) Believe me, the interactive Ellison version is not to be missed.

In the New York and Los Angeles areas: you people are getting the refurbished, freshly cleaned, pressed and tweaked BLADE RUNNER on the big screen starting tomorrow, at the Ziegfeld and the Landmark, respectively. Don't waste the opportunity. Some of us in third-world cities feel neglected.

Derek - My only guess would be to try to contact him through either Subterranean Press or Gauntlet Press; Christopher has contributed intro material to publications of his father's work by both presses.

All - If the gods are kind, my plan is to consult my notes and assemble a recounting this weekend of the Cleveland escapade, top to bottom, secret tales and lighting debacles, testimonials and film surprises, in full blush and - hey, is that smoke coming out of my compu

Harlan, your memory is amazing. SADDLE TRAMP is not part of your bibliography as presented by Webderland, though THE FINAL PUSH is. (I assume that you wrote TRAMP during your pulp years.)

"J. Michael Straczynski tells a story of when he and Harlan Ellison went to see Schlinder's list."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8J5tmscEKhQ

Has anyone ever seen THE GODSON (1971), which had a scene shot in Harlan's house and which was supposedly Harlan's screen debut? (True?) It was pretty definitely a Grindhouse movie. Just curious.

The whole animated adventure series of THE PIRATES OF DARK WATER has been online for a while in three places, including y**t***. (See info on piratesofdarkwater.net) As far as I know, this is sort of a derelict, half-forgotten show, unfinished and barely shown anywhere, nor scheduled to be released in some permanent form. Harlan did some guest voices, but no episode-specific credits are available (apart form the end credits of the show itself). I didn't find him in episodes 1, 2, and 6 (of 21). I'll keep looking, but perhaps someone else has more luck.

Any hints, Harlan?

Ultra-quick Addendum
Adding to my comments on PUSHING DAISIES, I should note here that one of my own newsgroup denizens likened it to "(something) directed by Tim Burton with a script by Jay Ward based on a story by Harlan Ellison..."

Oakley Hall
is another name I'd like to add to our growing list of brilliant western writers: WARLOCK (which Thomas Pynchon has called one of the great American novels), THE BAD LANDS and APACHES. A few years ago, Harlan hipped me to Hall's current series of mysteries featuring Ambrose Bierce.

A bit of help . . .
I was curious if someone on the board could help me out. I am a High School Language Arts teacher, and I want to use Charles Beaumont's short story "The Howling Man" in my class. I want to do the right thing and respect copyright, so I'm trying to see if I can work something out with the copyright holders. I'm assuming in this case that it would be Christopher Beaumont, his son, but I can't seem to find any contact information for him. Any suggestions for how to proceed?

All the best,

Derek

Thank you and "...aisies"
Thanks for the kind words, Mr. Ellison; they brightened an otherwise dim day. I appreciate the sentiment and it's good to know that I didn't tick you or anyone else off unintentionally. It's always interesting to read your writings and wonderful to have the ability to converse on occasion, (i.e, the mystery of "boo-dow" was solved). Your post regarding "thread-drift" didn't make me wish to leave this board, just to be more careful when I post, which is never a bad idea.

I saw the last half of "Pushing Daisies" and it is not a show that you start watching from the middle. It is intriguing enough to tune in next week, unless some wrongheaded executive touches it. The tone of the show reminded me of "Eerie, Indiana", but I wonder whether this concept will buoy a series.

For those with PC's and a high-speed connection, you can watch "Pushing Daisies" on ABC's website.

Brian Phillips

Jason,
Jason,

All over Amazon.Com, the folks who write intros to other books are given bylines equal to those of the authors. I wrote a book with an intro by a 9 year old and a 12 year old, and they have their only Amazon listings because of that. The E-Bay listing, which seems designed to impart info in the smallest possible space, looks to be more of the same. No biggie.

Everyone:

PUSHING DAISIES. Delightful. Best show of the new TV season. See it before it disappears.

A-TC

eBay/Daleks
W.POWELL

You left out some important punctuation. The eBay auction is labeled:

"Doctor Who Genesis of the Daleks by Harlan Ellison, ..."

The comma and ellipsis suggests what has happened. If you go down to the more complete item description, you see the authors listed are "Harlan Ellison, Terrance Dicks". Harlan wrote the introduction, Terrance Dicks wrote the novel.

The seller has likely labeled the item, in full, "Doctor Who Genesis of the Daleks by Harlan Ellison, Terrance Dicks". However, the length of that title exceeds what is displayed, and eBay has cut it off with the aforementioned ellipsis, leaving only Harlan's name and the comma visible in the header.

While it's possible the seller did this purposefully in order to be misleading, looking at other items he has for sale leads me to believe that the error was made honestly. He has several other items which end with that same ellipsis, such as "Women Who Run With the Wolves by Clarissa Pinkola Es..." and "Only Earth and Sky Last Forever. by Nathaniel Benchl..."

I come forth from the inter-webs to solve all mysteries. Please tip your waitresses on the way out.

This is interesting...
Someone on eBay is offering a copy of "Doctor Who Genesis of the Daleks by Harlan Ellison".

The URL is too damn long to post, so I'll just refer the reader to auction #4524610504 instead.

Vegas and Beyond...

Back from the sojourn to the land of sin. Had a wonderful time. Lost less than usual at the tables.

Met up with Kurt Rasmussen, the wunderkind percussionist who liveth at "O" -- a gentle soul who makes the trek to Vegas worth the cost given his skills and friendship, and is one of the nicest folks ever. And, as usual, he contributed some truly incredible stuff to Cris' new CD.

I am authorized to tell this board, just you all, that the name of the new CD is "THIS MOMENT TO BE FREE".

We're all very excited. Yes, still.

(Y'see, oh Cleveland Kids, THAT's all we ask. No opi (opuses? Opusaron?), just the facts.
_______________________________________

HARLAN - Will call you tomorrow to schedule a time to finish my work.

BTW - In Vegas, I ran across the gallery for an artist I'd never heard of before, but found his work strongly evoking Jacek Yerka's. The name of the guy is Vladimir Kush, a Russian emigre who now lives in Hawaii.

http://www.vladimirkush.com/home.php

Just wondering if you have the same reaction...
____________________________________

Lastly: For those of you "flustrated" by the disappearing Opi (Opuses? Opusamos?), highlight the essay and copy it before hitting "Preview" or "Send Message". Makes the recovery much simpler and stress free.

Unsolicited gifts
Mr. Ellison,

I just saw you say you don't like getting unsolicited gifts.
I hope I didn't create an uncomfortable moment giving you
the blotter in Cleveland. I wanted to show my appreciation
for all your works have given me but I probably should have
considered you get stuff from fans all the time and that it
can add up. If you have no place for it please feel free to
discard it. Should I have the good fortune to see you speak
in person again I'll content myself to buying cool books to
show my appreciation. The adding to my collection being an
added bonus of that plan.

ASK AUNTIE LEASHER

Dear Auntie L:

Your scapegrace nephew, Ryan--who lives well within nearby down th'hill bitchslappin' Burbank closeness to me--has sent me a peculiar item. Mr. Chisel??? Is your goofy nephew suggesting I'm a chiseler??? What the hell (parm'my langwidge, ma'am) I*S this thing, and W*H*Y has he sent it to me??? Does he not know I already have a laaaaaarge house gorged belly-to-butt with tchotchkes up the gee-gee? (Also ??.) Does he not understand that I really don't like getting gifts unsolicited??? Does he not understand that if ANYONE wants to send me unsolicited gifts it would have to be one of the VERY EXPENSIVE historical miniatures Aero Art offers as part of the St. Petersburg Collection??? Please, Auntie L, tell me what's going on here.

Yrs., Confused in California

Well, duh
This week's Cleveland Free Times has a feature titled "Best of All Time"--Clevelanders, that is--and, despite GLARING omissions: Herbert Gold, Raymond DeCapite, and the lovely and exciting Sarah Willis, they have had the wisdom to list Harlan as one of the 10 best writers from Cleveland, ever. Well, duh. It's an "okay" profile. Check it out: http://www.freetimes.com/stories/15/22/writers

Harlan: two copies in the mail to you tomorrow.
RonA

Why a WGA?
Mark Evanier does an excellent job of explaining the importance of the Writers Guild to an inquiring reader.

http://www.newsfromme.com/archives/2007_10_03.html#014116

bRIAN PHILLIPS:

Don't you DARE go away! If I'd thought for an instant that my gardyloo would induce you to dash off, I'd never have entered it! You did nothing wrong! "Thread-drift" is a concommitant of the internet, apparently, built in, unavoidable, often miraculously informative and fun, once in a while a bore ... but absolutely no reason for us to lose a good guy in the mix.

Please hang out. You are most welcome here.

As is DIANE BARTELS. Hello, to you, Ms. Bartels. Yes, you'll find Webderland a refreshing tropical isle of courtesy and ratiocination mid the Sargasso of spiteful, generally fucked-up websites where diminished egos plunge their stingers into the poison pods for strafing runs elsewhere...once in a while even here. Which is why we keep the Flit always within reach.

And JAN, if I'm recalling correctly (and Tim Richmond's book will soon be the variorum reference in such matters), I only wrote three westerns: "The End of the Time of Leinard," which you know; "The Final Push," and "Saddle Tramp." Love westerns, but never felt I was deeply enough steeped in the patois, the history, or the authenticity to do the job with any superior skill. But I DO loves my western reading!

Yr. Pal, Harlan

A novel idea. Sorry!
Had I read what Mr. Ellison said about "thread-drift", I would have kept my trap shut about western movies. I read this board at work, and I don't go back far enough in postings sometimes. I will try not to make the same mistake again.

I'll go back to reading about Harlin and leave Harlan Ellison alone, until I have something of interest/worth to contribute.

Thanks to all for the recommendations of Western literature. This is the kind of information I find quite valuable.

Awaiting the new edition of "Harlan Ellison's Watching",
Brian Phillips

Tim Lowe, Too bad the writer screwed up some of HE's titles. The Ticktockman "said", not "cried". Also, he forgot the comma in "I Have No Mouth, And I Must Scream".

EU
Harlan, have you done any Western writing after your pulp period? Apart from "The End of Time of Leinard", which I'll reread, now that you've all put me in the mood...

It's interesting that the US and Europe will always be on a different page when it comes to Westerns. Their popularity over here was limited, and many of the films and writers that you guys mention I've never seen/heard of. Speaking strictly for Germany, the first wildly successful Western movies were family films produced in Germany/Jugoslavia ("Winnetou" etc.) and Italian/Spanish Westerns, such as Leone's films and the Bud Spencer/Terence Hill vehicles ("Ace High" etc. - misdubbed in the US, I trust). Americans such as Hawks and Ford had small audiences, while more artsy films such as "Johnny Guitar" are considered classics. The biggest Western in my lifetime was "Dances with Wolves", which I consider one of the greatest movies ever made. I've seen it many times, as I did Leone's big one, which used to be my favourite movie and perhaps still is.

I think the Western mentality carried over into many of the surrounding genres, like tv science fiction, noir and crime books due to writers growing up with Westerns or switching genres. Elmore Leonard's crime novels are a good example, as are many of today's action movies coming out of Hollywood (Live Free and Die Hard, for example). I think that if you were to take the "Wild West residue" out of American movies, they would suddenly look much more European. I think that's what's been happening slowly for the past few decades, though it's part of what Europeans like enjoy about American movies.

Tribute to Harlan from a somewhat different angle:

http://www.valdostadailytimes.com/deancolumn/local_story_275231156.html

Russia
If you want do delete your site from our spam bases - just email us with domain of your site:

abuse-here@inbox.ru

thank you!

thanks, Josh
Josh, thanks for your behind the scenes story about History of Violence. I wasn't exactly accurate or fair in saying "simple in theme". If anything, I think you created a shorter plot, but a more complex and thought provoking theme -- by making Tom & Ritchie bros in the mob, and the ending ambiguous. I'm glad you stuck to your guns, and a benefit to all of us that the studio let it happen. I think it worked much better than the liberties taken with Road to Perdition.

Nebraska? Grew up there. Lincoln location. It was nothing short of entertaining to be surrounded by the few but potent urban myths about Starkweather, the Badlands movie, Willa Cather, King's "Children of the Corn," ... and later in my adult life, bookended by Harlan's "Sensible City," at which time I could do more than chuckle out loud.

hi, everyone, how are you all? I am so happy this web site exists. Just when I think all is lost, the people here give me an inkling of hope that somewhere there are one or two people left of intelligence and heart and sense. My favorite western film is The Magnificient Seven. I liked Lonesome Dove a lot as a book. Mr. E., I sympathize with your loss of writing material. When my computer died in 96, I lost part of my novel, several poems, a few short stories and several games and other program. Lucky for me, I had back up copies of all except one short story, which I have not recreated til this day. By backup, I mean paper. I still write original of everything on paper with pen. It is second and third drafts that make it to the old computer. And I always print a paper copy after I finish. Just what works for me. Now here is why I really delurked tonite. In response to Frank's post, this post is a lot to you. I think we share similar political views; despite the ravages of bush and bush, this is still America, and still a Republic and still a Democracy. We need to be out of the Middle East and Iraq now, not next year or month or week. We have no right to be there, and we are causing a situation which threatens the peace and existence of this world. On the news tonite, I heard that the total of civilian bodies found on the streets of Baghdad has fallen from 600 something in a month to 450 or 460. And this is progress? That's almost a thousand men women and kids. We are never going to stabilize that area. It's been at war for 5000 years among the tribes and peoples. And the Sunnis and Shites have been killiing each other for 1000 years. We need to let all of those poor people resolve their differences and problems for themselves, as we reserve the write to do for ourselves. The Democrats need to realize that the mandate they were given in the last Congressional election can be as quickly revoked by we the people. The demon in our White House needs to be impeached asap, before he starts a war with Iran and Russia and God knows who else - the Republic of Ireland for all I know.
Sorry all for the rant, but I'm really scared and really mad and for the very first time in my 47 years, I'm ashamed to be and American. By the way, Harlan, I was rereading Angry Candy the night before last and one reason I love your books is you always send me to my big old dictionary several times. That's kinda cool. And by the way by the way, Lee Marvin and Van Heflin were/are really dreamy. A lighter note. Night all. Good dreams

JOSH,

William Hurt's a buddy of yours? Really?

Well, if you bump into him again, tell Mr. Hurt that I wish him the very best of luck as General "Thunderbolt" Ross on THE INCREDIBLE HULK.

To heck with psychotic mob bosses. Convincingly selling a character who hunts 12-foot green-skinned behemoths for a living takes some badass talent.

USA
If you want do delete your site from our spam bases - just email us with domain of your site:

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thank you!

I slip in as a shadow, mere to second John Zeock's admonition to look up the few westerns written by my late Texican friend, Chad Oliver. How I could have overlooked Chad's ONLY EXQUISITE contributions to the genre--Spur winners--is as far beyond me, and as embarrassing as, misspeaking a Dutch Leonard masterpiece for a Louis L'Amour masterpiece. I grow old, the lights dim, the tongue swells in the dry mouth. I go to meet Cheops.

Yr. Pal, Harlan

western fiction
The Cannibal Owl by Chad Oliver

low expectations

Zack:

You SHOULD keep your expectations low -- about this as about almost anything else. That something is Jewish hardly means it is going to be, by definition, good.

There are almost as many kinds of Judaism as there are of Christianity -- and a world of difference between Orthodox, Lubavitch, Hasidic, Conservative, Reform, Reconstructionist, and many other, smaller varieties.

Odds are you're going to be attending a Conservative or Reform service, which at least have the virtue of not expecting you to check your brain at the door, the way so many other sects (e.g., Catholic, Missouri Synod Lutheran, Southern Baptist, etc.) do.

But there are even different strains of Reform Judaism developing right now -- some adhering to the classic social activism of 19th century Reform, and some moving toward greater spiritualism.

You could visit services at a half a dozen different synogogues and still not be clear about what Judaism is, or is up to these days.

And there are plenty of Reform Jews in the U.S. today who know very little about Jewish history, practice, or law. For them, it's all about food and good works, at best.

Thanks Y'all!
Just want to say thanks to everyone who answered my question regarding the Jewish service. I'm looking for a yarmelke. I look forward to going, but really, I have low expectations. Not because it is a JEWISH service, but because it is a service in this town. So far they have all been the same, no matter the religion. Anyone with overt religious happenings in this town tends to be an ass. I hope it won't be that way at the temple, but it might.

Speaking of good movies, 2am Friday, TCM will be showing the great b movie grindhouse ditty Born Losers, with one of my favorite good guy hero's, the asskicking Indian Billy Jack. He stumbles upon a group of crazed bikers and a hot babe and basically kills the bikers, fucks the babe. This is before he does that odd hippie film, with asskicking on the side.

Does make a good case that pacifism can be a really bad idea.

-----------

William Hurt is god--did I say that?

BROKEBACK MOUNTAIN
Josh,

Ditto on BROKEBACK MOUNTAIN.

You know, back when the movie was in theatres, I produced a memorable rant on the subject of right-wing personalities trashing this film they hadn't seen, and centering on this meme used by Bill O'Reilly, Sean Hannity, and several other Faux Noise personalities, to the effect that they wouldn't see BROKEBACK MOUNTAIN on a bet, as they considered it immoral and sexually suspect, but were really looking forward to Peter Jackson's KING KONG. (This was the meme floating around the aether for a while: specifically, BROKEBACK MOUNTAIN vs KING KONG. They weren't alone in citing it. You know these guys. They all get their talking points from the same places.)

I recognized it then as a form of faux-populism; i.e., We're not interested in this gay art film but we do want this other entertainment that won't preach its values at us. Had it not been KING KONG it would have been whatever epic was in the theatres right then. INDEPENDENCE DAY would have been a natural, for those guys.

But KING KONG was the one in theatres, and so I said, at considerable length, "So, gee, you're AGAINST two guys hooking up in a tent, but FOR a woman becoming the love object of a gorilla? God, are you guys SICK!"

A-TC

WESTERN NOVELS
I urge everyone to check out SMONK by Tom Franklin.

Mark Palko,

2 different mediums, Mark.

Narrative objectives change, and I actually don't CARE how much the book might happen to differ from the movie.

They took very good advantage of the visual language, in this case a minimalist approach, to explore its OWN meanings.

**In general, I have to say, as with war movies, I'm no fan of the Western genre. A movie has to have something unique goin' on - something that parts from the cliches. MOST of the cliches I happen to hate, in fact.

Rob,

Re: Shane - “I've no idea what you were expecting”

I was expecting it to be as wildly entertaining as it had been the first five times I saw it. These things happen. Some films age with us, like fine wine, others do not. I find Liberty Valance goes down better every time, but Shane - your lovely exegesis notwithstanding - has left me with a little less the last two times I saw it. It’s one of those movies I have no doubt I’ll go back to again someday... but not for a while.

---

Frank,

“Is Brokeback Mountain a cowboy film? “

I caught James Schamus, the producer, talking about it. He said he was dismayed by how many people kept referring to it as “the gay cowboy movie.”

“They’re not gay cowboys,” he said.

“They’re gay SHEPHERDS!”

And, frankly, I thought the movie was terrific.

-----
Andrew,

“Was it primarily a decision about running time and simplification of theme that led to the removal of Ritchie's character and other sub-plots?”

The book was, basically, a straight up action thriller. I enjoyed it, but had no interest in adapting that story. When I was brought in to pitch, it was a strange situation - it was made clear up front I wasn’t getting the job, but that I should make a good impression so when I came back to pitch something else, the studio folk would be familiar with me.

I took that as license to do whatever I wanted creatively with the story, since I wasn’t getting the gig. So I took the title, the premise and the first act of the book and spun it into a much more personal story, one I’d be interested in telling. And, shockingly, they responded.

In the book, Tom’s a straight up good guy, who fought the mob a long time ago, and is hiding from their reprisals. When everyone finds out his secret, they all shrug and accept him anyway, then he goes to New York, kicks everyone’s ass, and everything’s right with the world.

Me, I like Anthony Mann westerns, Bruce Springsteen’s Nebraska, and film noir. So I threw the book into a pot with those things, and came up with very different story, keeping bits and pieces of the book.

Honestly, I was ruthless with the book, violently disrespectful to the material, and just downright mean. These things happen. Happily, it worked out to everyone’s benefit, and, frankly, I still can’t believe they let me get away with it. The studio let me run with it, and never fucked with it a bit. That ending was the one I pitched them in the room. “Why not an ambiguous ending?” I though. “They’re gonna pass anyway. Might as well go down swinging.”

So to answer your questions - running time wasn’t an issue, I’m not sure there’s really a theme to the book to simplify in the first place (And you thought the movie’s theme was simple? Geez. I gotta work harder), and Richie’s right there at the end, brilliantly played by my pal, William Hurt. There were never any flashbacks in my script, and Joey was always, from the get-go, a really bad guy trying to turn good.

Different projects have different callings. I adapted a Dennis Lehane story a while back in which I was insanely faithful. And that Discarded thing (although, I have to admit, if I’d wanted to go full on History on that thing, the fact that Harlan was sitting across the kitchen table from me picking the flesh of studio execs out of his teeth might have disabused me of that notion...)

---
Mark,

“but Browne’s wonderful pre-hanging prayer may close with the coolest line of any Western.”

Amen.

Random Thoughts on Westerns

Brian

Welles did repeatedly view Stagecoach before making Kane, but Ford may have been an even bigger acknowledged influence on Bergman and Kurosawa (watch Seven Samurai – it’s pretty obvious).

Speaking of influences, the first time I saw Yojimbo, I assumed that Kurosawa had been heavily influenced by Leone’s films, then I checked the date on the movie and realized it was the other way around.

Just so we’re straight here, a Japanese film-maker who learned directing from watching John Ford Westerns made a film based on a gangster novel (Red Harvest) that provided the basis in both story and style for the first of the spaghetti Westerns. If you think deception produces tangled webs, try art.

Ford was also a hell of a guy. He had that rare kind of courage that could stand up to both enemy gunfire (a war he should have been too old to serve in) and the HUAC bastards in the Director’s Guild (“I don’t like you, Mr. DeMille.”)

And for Rob:

The biggest difference between Shane the book and Shane the movie is the role of the boy. There’s a fine tension in the novel between what the narrator saw as a child and what he now understands. Jack Schaefer did fine work.

And David:

The Cowboys doesn’t really face the moral questions of killer young’uns like Lord of the Flies, but Browne’s wonderful pre-hanging prayer may close with the coolest line of any Western.

Keep riding tall,
Mark

p.s. Shane fans should check out the sad and graceful Monte Walsh with Lee Marvin

p.p.s. Lee Marvin fans should check out The Great Scout. More a guilty pleasure than a good movie but Oliver Reed’s performance as the not-so-faithful Indian companion is, well, something you need to see.

p.p.p.s. If one the other hand, you want a more defensible comic Western, try Support Your Local Sheriff and its follow-up (which is not a sequel, by the way). Maybe Garner’s best film work.

p.p.p.p.s. Anyone else remember SCTV’s Western Redundancy Theatre?

History of Violence
Josh O, may I ask about the History of Violence script? I've had a copy of the graphic novel since '97, and was delighted to see the preview trailer -- and later the movie of course. Was it primarily a decision about running time and simplification of theme that led to the removal of Ritchie's character and other sub-plots? I wondered whether earlier drafts of the script included scenes like the boy scout robbery, and whether Tom/Joey's character was always intended to be with the mob.

It is a great script, I gotta say, and the movie deserved all acclaim received. A great job too on "The Discarded" teleplay (great material to work with, we know.) Okay, here endeth my gushing.

Hello from long ago
Hi Harlan. I'm not sure what led me to your website this evening, but here I am. So I'd like to say a quick hello after apprx. 22 years.

Hope you're doing well.

Richard
www.richardemmet.com

Message for Lee
Sorry to address this in a public forum, can't think of another solution:

Lee, I am trying to reply to your mail and it keeps bouncing back with the following message:

Mail rejected by Windows Live Hotmail for policy reasons. A block has been placed against your IP address because we have received complaints concerning mail coming from that IP address.

I am not computer-adept so I have no idea what that's about. If you have another email address besides hotmail, please send it along!

APPROPOS OF NOT MUCH - HELIX SF #6
The sixth issue of HELIX SF went live at midnight 10/1, with very strong - and disturbing - stories by Jennifer Pelland ("The Last Stand of the Elephant Man") and Mike Allen ("The Button Bin"), as well as equally strong work from Jayme Lynn Blaschke, Vylar Kaftan, Sarah K. Castle, Jay Lake, and Ann Leckie.

I will also mention, with absolutely no false modesty, the fine and challenging poetry of David Kopaska-Merkel & W. Gregory Stewart ("The Gates"), JoSelle Vanderhooft's "The Robot's Daughter", and Mikal Trimm's indescribable "The Envoy," as well as Danny Adams, Kendall Evans, and S. C. Virtes, the last an ode of sorts to the Ripley's Museum(s).

Add in my "Past Masters" column on Cordwainer Smith, John Barnes' new column, "The Well-Bitten Hand," and editorials by William Sanders and Lawrence Watt-Evans, and I can - and will! - say without fear of contradiction that this is the strongest issue of HELIX yet.

As is our custom, reading is free: http://www.helixsf.com. All we ask is that if you like what you read, punch the PayPal button and drop us a couple of bucks so we can pay our authors, who will get paid even if we staff don't.

If you like what you read, or if you don't, feel free to write us and say why. We sive to learve.

Genovese which now is fact
Joins Lizzy Borden and her axe...


HITLER PAINTED ROSES anyone?

re WRITE
c'mon, Ellison

write the damnthing again

then send me a pair of your poopy-soiled underdrawers in fair exchange for my presumptuousness.

har,
R

there's cowboys and there's . . . .


:: Is Brokeback Mountain a cowboy film?


Naw, atsa piece o'sheep.

(Actually, I liked it a lot. I'm very fond of the late John Wayne-Roscoe Lee Browne picture, "The Cowboys," too; sort of Little House on the Prairie meets Lord of the Flies.)

The following article about Kitty Genovese is from today's Seattle Post-Intelligencer:

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/national/1110AP_Kitty_Genovese.html

David

Stagecoach is a masterwork, yes, yes. I slept on it for years as well.

Kids think they know everything, until that scorpion gets into their sleeping bag and they understand what real danger is. Danger is living life being artless; better off letting that scorpion crawl up your ass and die.

-------------

Let's not forget Bend In The River, steller film with my boy James Stewart. The man basically owned Hollywood. He just rented little chunks of the fools gold to the rest of us, like it was crack.

----------

Is Brokeback Mountain a cowboy film?


---------------

Suzanne dePasse
The real correction that should be made is having me not open my mouth (via my fingers). The folks that have set me straight about Ms. dePasse are absolutely correct. I need to calibrate the settings on my television or something, though.

Acutely sorry.

for Rick O.
Hiya Mr. Ollerman! Don't be fooled by the dye-job, although she'd probably be amused that you were. But, if you don't wanna take *my* word for it, see below:
*****
Suzanne de Passe (born in 1948 in New York City, New York) is an American entertainment executive; the CEO of television production company de Passe Entertainment; and the first African-American woman to be nominated for an Academy Award for writing.
De Passe first became notable as an executive for Motown Records, a company which she joined in 1968 after being introduced to Motown chief Berry Gordy by Supremes member Cindy Birdsong. At Motown, de Passe helped to produce television specials such as TCB and G.I.T. on Broadway, both starring Diana Ross & the Supremes and The Temptations, and was responsible for signing, coaching, and developing Motown's most popular act of the 1970s, The Jackson 5.
In 1973, both she and Lonne Elder III became the first African-Americans to be nominated for an Academy Award for writing. She was nominated for co-writing the screenplay for the Berry Gordy-produced Lady Sings the Blues starring Diana Ross as singer Billie Holiday, while Elder was nominated for Sounder. De Passe co-wrote Lady Sings the Blues with Terence McCloy and Motown recording artist Chris Clark.
De Passe continued to work for Motown, mostly producing television specials such as Motown 25 for the company's Motown Productions film/TV division into the 1980s.
In 1989, Berry Gordy sold Motown Productions to de Passe, who renamed it de Passe Entertainment. The company has since produced such television shows and feature films as Class Act, Sister, Sister, Smart Guy, and It's Showtime at the Apollo. A number of de Passe Entertainment productions hearken back to de Passe's Motown days, including the miniseries The Jacksons: An American Dream (in which she is a character, played by Vanessa L. Williams) and The Temptations, and the Motown 45 special in 2004.
De Passe also was executive producer for the miniseries Lonesome Dove, Buffalo Girls, Streets of Laredo and Dead Man's Walk, along with the syndicated series Lonesome Dove: The Outlaw Years. All of these projects were based on the writings of Larry McMurtry.
She has won Emmy Awards for producing the Motown 25 and Motown Returns to the Apollo specials which won for Outstanding Variety, Music or Comedy Program. In addition, she received Emmy nominations for Lonesome Dove, Buffalo Girls, The Jacksons: An American Dream, The Temptations and the Farrah Fawcett crime miniseries Small Sacrifices. All these nominations were in the Outstanding Miniseries category. De Passe was inducted into the Black Filmmakers Hall of Fame in 1990.
De Passe is an honorary member of Alpha Kappa Alpha Sorority, Inc.
*******

Screw It. . .
Funny enough, (or not very funny at all rather, but coincidental instead) the same thing happened to me when I returned from Cleveland. Twice I tried writing up a long, sentimental report on the experience, and twice it vanished into the Cyberspace either (see posts under "Cleveland" thread in other place). The recollection that I did end up posting was nowhere near as good or immediate as the first too, and now I won't get to hear the offical response of the guest of honour.
Interesting too how the longer and more important the document is, the greater it's chances of oblivion are.
I really, really hate these fucking machines.

-Steve E.

westerns
Les Savage, Jr. is another western author worth reading. I also recommend the Buchanan series published by Fawcett under the house name Jonas Ward. Many of them were written by William Ard, a highly underrated crime novelist, and I believe that one of the Buchanans was ghost written by Robert Silverberg. In addition, one of the novels, Buchanan Rides Alone, was filmed as one of the Budd Boetticher-Randolph Scott westerns.

Westerns
Let me offer the name James Warner Bellah. If you have ever watched the John Wayne/John Ford films, FORT APACHE, SHE WORE A YELLOW RIBBON or RIO GRANDE, then you have been exposed to the short stories of Mr. Bellah. Most of his stories are out of print, but you can find "The Valliant Virginian" in used bookstores here and there, and can witness his work as a screenwriter in both "Sgt. Rutledge" and "The Man Who Shot Liberty Vallance".

As for favorite western films, I would recommend Sam Fuller's RUN OF THE ARROW, QUIGLEY DOWN UNDER (If for no other reason then Alan Rickman and Laura San Giacomo) or WINCHESTER 73 or BEND IN THE RIVER with Jimmy Stewart.

Stuff
The only westerns I've read have been THe OX-BOW INCIDENT by Walter van Tilburg Clark, many by McMurtry, a couple by Richard Matheson, and SHANE. 'Tis not a genre I have followed, in print, in depth. Sorry for crossing media.

Harlan: the swallowing of long unsaved prose-pieces has occurred to me a few times, on the internet, but it has also happened to stuff I failed to save off-line; a glitch once cost me an entire novelette (that I painstakingly wrote from scratch, and got nominated for an award for). Empathy for the irritation factor.

Another western you should watch...
"The Gunfighter" with Gregory Peck and Millard Mitchell. Mitchell is best known for being in "Singin' in the Rain", but here he is a sheriff with great world-weary patter.

This doesn't have much shooting, it's more of a character study. John Ford's "Stagecoach" is a great one, but I appreciated it more when I viewed it in context. It established certain elements that are present in many westerns that followed. Orson Welles said that he watched it several times.

And since this is a board frequented by writers, "Stagecoach" was written by Ernest Haycox and Dudley Nichols, with assistance from Ben Hecht. "The Gunfighter" was written by Andre de Toth, William Bowers, William Sellers and also Nunnally Johnson.

Harlan : regarding your post of September 30, 19:34:34. um. Easy there dude/sir. That's our hero and gracious host you're badmouthing, please be nice to him. Surely whatever ill he's done has already been outweighed by his many other virtues.

Plus, and I don't mean to give advice when none's been asked for, but attacking Mr. Ellison's intellect is really not such a bright idea. He's sharp as a tack and occassionally prickly to boot. Stay on his good side and he is, if a gentile can be forgiven the use of the expression, a mensch of the highest caliber.

re: Cleveland report / life lessons
That's a real loss. Thanks for trying. Looking forward to the audience reports.

"Write the entry on whatever word processor exists on the computer"

Or write them in small chapters.

My own hard-earned lesson from the past weeks is to double check dates and times on tickets and before making reservations.

First, to Harlan:

Lemme reassure you that your informative response to my query about Western books was highly, HIGHLY appreciated. You didn't waste a single phalanx there.

I myself joined in the digression to western movies because I never READ a western in my life, 'less ya wanna count Andy Buckram and His Tin Men when I was 4 or 5, and it was the only direction I could go once someone brought up the topic.


Josh...

By th'dungarees of an ornery bullwhacker, ya just blew off one of the greatest western movies of all time.

With a curtsy...allow me - with LLLUVING condescension - to explain to ya what ya wuz missin':

(I'm re-posting my comments from the board - otherwise known as that contentious territory of Anal Canyon - because I haven't seen you over there in a while)

I would argue, Josh, that SHANE is a film of growing discovery. It's the kind film in which you find new things with every viewing; meanings you missed the first time round emerge, and the movie slowly pulls you into its world.

I've no idea what you were expecting, but the movie's power is not in the dialog; no, the meanings - the STORY itself - is found in the silence - the things the characters DON'T say. Shane himself is not a character, but a symbolic figure representing aspiration and longing for personal roles, that may or I may not be attainable. It's about human potential; but also about the conditions that necessitate a role other than the one you want. Therein lies the timelessness of the movie's theme, as so many of us know the desire or need for roles that so often we CAN'T attain. Sometimes, that's pretty tragic.

SHANE is about a man's search for himself, of his efforts to tap his latent potentialities, and of his struggle to establish mastery over the chaotic forces of instinct and the unconscious that threaten him with personal disintegration.

That's why it's called a "psychological" Western.

In simplest terms, what bonds the 4 leads can be found in the quiet glances shared between them. Joe sees Shane as his potiential replacement to care for his wife and raise his son should he fall in his plight; between Shane and Marion there is this de-sexualized attraction in every gesture and glance - a subtle, idealized interest, attraction and love. The kid, of course, represents the raw material of human potential before it finds a shape. And Shane sees the domestic life of the family as the idealized version of what he'd WISHED he could be.

To myself, the real character in the movie isn't the kid - whose pov mainly dominates the movie - but Joe. His stubborn drive to overcome the odds, his need for balanced judgment to weigh the crisis (hence, Shane's entrance), and his counterpoint in Shane's quiet inner spirit (even though Shane reaches for his gun at the slightest sound behind him, he is far more in control). It's interesting and ironic: Though Shane yearns to escape his life of violence, he is more at peace with himself than is Joe, who is determined to up the ante in order to ATTAIN peace; Shane would love to adopt this family as his own, but in the end he's willing to accept the role he's lived with all his life. And once that decision is left to him, he follows through with machine-like reflex.

Thus, Shane himself is a symbol. Joe, on the other hand, in my opinion, is the composite of individual elements represented by all those around him - including that which Shane desires to be if it were ever possible; that very thing that would have made Shane truly human, rather than just the object he remains. To me, Joe is the only true and whole character in the movie; and I think that was part of the movies blueprint.

I think the film is summed up in a line from Shane when he's talking to the kid early on: "I like a man who watches things go on around. It means he'll make his mark someday."

It's brilliant. Almost Taoist.

Whatever you were "expecting", Josh, it's my argument that you missed a LOT!!! I think you missed the hidden complexity.

Yet...to be FAIR, I didn't take to the movie all that much on the FIRST viewing either. It's with each repeated viewing that I fell in love with this flick, finding so many things to THINK about. How many Westerns have I seen that really made me "THINK about it"?

THAT'S why this is one of the greatest Western films ever.

Rick O.,

Re Suzanne de Passe: Looks can be deceiving.

D.

Reply to Harlan - Coda
Sorry for the double post - (I will do penance, Rick, I promise) - But it's been bothering me all day that I didn't mention it earlier: Being gently, courteously, chided by YOU, Harlan, means more to me than being praised by someone like, say, Belva Plain. (And I HAVE been praised by Belva Plain oddly enough; and yes, that might be a story for another time).

All the best to you,

Scott

My spurs are a-jingling
Sorry, HE, I've been tempted to get into western fiction at various points in my book collecting, but if I liked them as much as I do my cowboy movies, I fear I'd be in big trouble and I just don't want to open that Pandora's box.

On your recommendation, I did read a Steve Frazee western once. Must've been the wrong one. Twas okay, but I was not bowled over. W.R. Burnett wrote a couple of nice ones...one of which I've been flirting making into a movie with the company which owns it. Unfortunately, though every actor, director, and writer I know in Hollywood wants to make a western...none of the studio suits do.

I've not gone to see the latest incarnation of 3:10 To Yuma because I so loved the old one with Glenn Ford and the always durable and terrific Van Heflin who could make a lot of stars look good. It also had a great Frankie Lane theme song that I bet the new can't top.

Speaking of Heflin, I've got to disagree with you, Josh, re: SHANE. A lovely, meticulous movie. And one where Alan Ladd's blandness was used to good effect because he came off as a mysterious cypher. Oddly enough there is another Ladd western I'm right fond of...WHISPERING SMITH, if for nothing else the venerable Donald Crisp playing a bad guy and veteran Frank Faylen playing his henchman, the creepy Whitey Dusang.

Prowling around webderland
Yo, Ricardo, me man! Just shoot me a quick e-mail at the above address and I'll send you my work phone number. Did you get my last message with the info on the new exhibits in town? If not, I am posting it at the end of this message (as a public service announcement to all webderlanders as well).

On, another matter: season finale of Dr. Who this next Friday. Everybody should hop back on to the Forum and let 'er rip on the thread I created many eons ago once you watch it.

Which reminds me...I should start a thread on Torchwood. I like the series so far, although how do these people get any work done with the amount of hostility and testosterone going on in there is beyond me.

Okay, here's them events on the land of King Richard the Second:
1. The National Museum of Mexican Art's (formerly the Mexican Fine Artes Center Museum), annual Day of the Dead exhibit kickes off lasy Friday and will be running until December.

2. And the Museum of Contemporary Art just opened an exhibit called "Sympathy for the Devil: Art and Rock and Roll since 1967" devoted to the links between the arts and rock and featuring the works of Andy Warhol and others. The best part is that to commemorate their 40th anniversary, admission to the MCA will be free for the next 40 days.

Westerns (books, not films)
I admit to having a soft spot for Glendon Swarthout's THE SHOOTIST, which I've read several times and much prefer to the film. For sheer twistedness, an open-minded reader of Western-style fiction may want to sample the anthology RAZORED SADDLES, edited by Joe R. Lansdale and Patrick LoBrutto. Scott Culp's short story "Thirteen Days of Glory", contained therein, might well have served to earn him a fatwa from the residents of the Lone Star State if it had gotten more attention.

Mr. Olson -- I concur. THE SEARCHERS. Goddamn, what a film. That, and HIGH PLAINS DRIFTER, of course.

True Story

Harlan: In college--the night before it was due, mind you-- I lost a thirty page, well-researched analysis on "Elves in Germanic Folklore." Exhausted and almost in tears, I collasped on the mattress that rested on the floor of my apartment. The next morning, my paper was still gone, but at least I now had one hundred pairs of shoes.

Steve Dooner

shit. i am about as angry as i can get.

fucking ineptitude.

you imbecile, ellison. you dumb lackwit putz bastard.

shit shit shit

Alejandro Riera
I am in Chicago for a couple days and was going to try to squeeze in some hangout time with Alejandro. However, I left my laptop with his info in Atlanta. If someone has current contact info (I know he has a new email address) please shoot me a line. Thanks! - Rick (rick@rickwyatt.com).

Unless I'm completely confused, the Suzanne dePasse that is interviewed on my copy of the "Lonesome Dove" is actually a blonde white woman, not a feisty black one. That just seemed like a correction I needed to point out...

Harlan, a Suggestion.

Harlan,

If you want to post something long on the board again and are worried about the computer timing out while you compose, I have a suggestion.

Write the entry on whatever word processor exists on the computer (even if it's only NotePad, it will work). Then, when it's finished, cut and paste it into your post here. You should be able post without any time out problems.

Good to see you last week.

Bob

I weep.

Screw it.

I just spent an hour and twenty minutes writing

LOCAL BOY MAKES GOOD, Part 2.

This fucking devil's handmaiden timed out on me, as it has done so many times in the past, and kicked me off.

The entire 1500 word essay is lost.

I will not try again.

THAT is why I use a typewriter.

Do not badger me about this. It's finished. C'est-ca.

Angrily, Harlan

JOSH---NOT JACK
I---I meant my twin brother---meant Josh, not Jack.

We will both stay off board for 1 month in penance.

Jack, even better than Diane Lane nudity (and I'm straight) would be John Wayne or Jimmy Stewart cutting the cards with her for a "poke"!

Just got off the phone with our esteemed host, in reference to this:

"Yes, we all go to see 3:10 TO YUMA, but how many of you have read Louis's novel whence it came?"

His response: "Oh, shit. Shoot me now." It was, of course, DUTCH'S novel whence it came.

I'm also told that Local Boy Makes Good part deux is on its way....

Reply to Harlan
Harlan; the Dream Corridor order was placed by a well-meaning friend for my birthday. She didn't know I was going to order it from HERC (which I've just rejoined). And of COURSE I'd ask for it at the local Comic store anyway, to make sure they keep it in stock!
Sorry for the confusion. I don't mean to bring you agita (or angina pains) on this lovely Sunday. And I'm still placing an order through HERC.

Scott

WESTERNS


I was asked about western BOOKS, not movies. Yes, friends, I love THE OX-BOW INCIDENT (which was a great novel by Walter Van Tilburg Clark before it was a great movie) and STAGECOACH (first, John Wayne/Claire Trevor version, not the sad sorry Bing Crosby/Ann-Margret remake)(which was a fine short story before it was a classic film)(and, yes, I know who wrote the short story and its title, but this is wandering too far afield)(which I now know is called "thread-drift" and it's insidious), but I was asked about which WESTERN BOOK AUTHORS I could recommend, not asked to enter into one of your wistful clouds of adoration of this or that MOVIE!

So I recommended Richard Wheeler and Steve Frazee and Elmer Kelton and A.B. Guthrie and Dorothy Johnson and Lee Hoffman and forgot to mention the swell series of FARGO paperbacks mostly written under pseudonym by the late Lou Cameron, but didn't get into the "movie-thing" because that...THAT...is quite another kettle of karp. Yes, we all go to see 3:10 TO YUMA, but how many of you have read Louis's novel whence it came?

Books, folks. I was ast'about BOOKS, not ambling to a movie.

Yr. Pal, Harlan

SCOTT McKINLEY:

Some of you confuse the hell out of me. With all the access that worldwide internet provides you, simple garden-variety ingenuity seems to have been leached out of you.

Why bust your hump and pay a premium for DREAM CORRIDOR when we sell it ourselves, signed, right here. Or, if ou want back issues, et al, DARK HORSE COMICS--the publisher of DREAM CORRIDOR--has it perpetually in stock.

Webderland maintains a Books for Sale thread of many of my out of print titles, and mere a word spoken here can direct you directly to the direct directedness of the publishers of my IN PRINT TITLES (which HERC and Webderlanders get at some varied version of a discount) in mint condition, direct to your ingenuityless little mucky paws.

Sometimes, a few folks just make me scrunch up my phizz in utmostest confusion.

Kindly meant, Yr. Pal, Harlan

Rob,

I can’t go with ya on Shane - I find it doesn’t hold up the way I wish it would, but I finally saw Last Train To Gun Hill for the first time a couple months ago. Man, that was some sweet stuff.

The Hired Hand always knocks me out. Shame it got lost in the shadow of Easy Rider, but it’s the real deal, and one of Warren Oates’ finest performances, which is saying something.


John,

“They suffer a terrible fate.”

Heh. I think this is my favorite McMurtry moment - we’re at this press conference thing, people throwing questions to everyone, and this very, um... gay reporter (from the Advocate, I think, but I could be wrong), asks McMurtry (and this is on the awards trail, where he and Diana had been nominated for Brokeback), “Will you ever write something about two gay men that has a happy ending?”

Larry: “No.”

“read somewhere that the story was originally written as a script, before it became a book.”

Apparently, McMurtry came up with it while working on Last Picture Show. The idea was to write it as a vehicle for Bogdonavich to direct, with - are you ready? - John Wayne and Jimmy Stewart to star. Coulda been fantastic. That said, I can’t imagine anything improving on the produced version. Maybe some Diane Lane nudity....

Pogue,

Pogue! Hey, man!

“The Budd Boetticher/Randolph Scott westerns. Particularly RIDE LONESOME, THE TALL "T", COMANCHE STATION, and SEVEN MEN FROM NOW.”

God, yes. All great. You an Anthony Mann fan, too? Winchester ‘73’s a particular fave of mine.

Met a beautiful, crazy girl a while back who was an enormous Boetticher fan. I think about her from time to time....

Yee-hah!
Westerns:

The Budd Boetticher/Randolph Scott westerns. Particularly RIDE LONESOME, THE TALL "T", COMANCHE STATION, and SEVEN MEN FROM NOW.

And let's not forget that great noir western with Joel MacCrea, RAMROD...nor MacCrea and Scott in Peckinpah's RIDE THE HIGH COUNTRY.

And then there's the ultimate -- Mr. Ford's THE SEARCHERS.

As I recall, it was Suzanne DePasse (sp?), the feisty young black woman who worked for years as Berry Gordy's chief creative executive at Motown and later moved up into television production, who mustered enough clout to finally get *Lonesome Dove* made for the little screen. And I believe it was her first television miniseries too.

I was never a fan of Westerns until my father introduced me to Louie L'Amour (I will admit, one of the startling few positive aspects of our relationship). In the years since then I've turned the pages of and munched popcorn during a grab bag of Western fare.

One movie I could never bring myself to watch was STAGECOACH. I mean, seriously, it was such an OLD movie. Why would anyone want to watch such an OLD movie? OLDEr than most. And cliche! How much more cliche could you get than a handful of people in a stagecoach?

Then I caught it one afternoon a few years back while visiting my mother. I came through the door as the opening credits rolled and I said barely a monosyllabic word even during the commercials until she changed the channel as the last of the ending credits went dark.

Wow...

That's what I get for thinking the original lacked the body of even its dimmest reflection. Here's genre blindness for you, to think that Westerns couldn't live up to the same quality of work of some of the best science fiction. Prove me wrong and pass the popcorn...

And a few more westerns
Hombre, The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance, Rio Bravo, Conagher, Hondo, the original 3:10 to Yuma, and another Glenn Ford western called The Fastest Gun Alive aren't too shabby either.

Bests to all,

--tr

To Just John
Supposedly, LONESOME DOVE was originally conceived as a movie treatment for John Wayne, Henry Fonda and Jimmy Stewart. Kicked around a while, didn't it?

Count me among the folks who never liked westerns until I hit a good one, but now I strongly recommend THE GOOD THE BAD AND THE UGLY, THERE WAS A CROOKED MAN, THE OX-BOW INCIDENT (especially), MY NAME IS NOBODY, UNFORGIVEN, WARLOCK, BIG HAND FOR THE LITTLE LADY, ONCE UPON A TIME IN THE WEST, MCCABE AND MRS MILLER, OPEN RANGE, and HIGH NOON among my favorites.

Harlan... I'm fine!
Too late to call and *just* got your message. Apologies for worrying you! Was supposed to call Wed. but got carried off in holiday preparations while stuck at home with two-year-old... Then sundown locked me up for 72 hours (two days Sukkos, then straight into Shabbas). Everyone is fine. Will call you Sunday.

To Josh Olson: follow-up on LONESOME DOVE
I learned a couple of valuable literary lesson from LONESOME DOVE. Before I read it, I had been indifferent to Westerns for the most part, but because the banner over the title said “Pulitzer Prize”, I thought “Well, I’ll give it a few pages. But Westerns aren’t really my thing, so I probably won’t end up finishing the darn thing. Besides, it’s so big it could be a doorstop.”

So I started it early one afternoon, expecting nothing special, and by 6 o’clock the next morning, as I turned the last page with red, bleary-eyes, I was wishing it would never end. The writing was so wonderful, the characters so fully fleshed out, that it took my breath away.

The first lesson was to never again assume any particular genre of literature couldn’t soar. I already knew that lesson, but only intellectually. Now it was visceral knowledge of the sort that only comes with experience. I also learned something about just what kind of power a great author wields with respect to characterization. In the book, there were a group of characters in whom I had become emotionally invested. They suffer a terrible fate. At first I was so mad about losing these people that I considered (for about .4 seconds) not finishing the book. I had never become angry at an author before because of what they did to characters in a book of fiction. Gradually, though, I came to admire McMurtry for his skill and talent and audacity in creating living breathing characters, investing them with a rich stew of emotions and quirks, making them so real that I was sucked completely in, and then rutlessly killing them off in an instant. The book was so rich, though, that while they were missed, the story sailed along magnificently without them anyway. Kind of like life. Thus the second bit of intellectual knowledge became visceral: it’s all about the characters.

When the mini-series came out, I was excited, but expected that the director would indulge in the usual creative license, and change things around. I was just looking forward to spending time with some old friends again. I couldn’t have been more wrong. It is quite possibly the finest piece of television I have ever seen. It is a perfect example of what TV could and should be. Later on, I read somewhere that the story was originally written as a script, before it became a book. I don’t know if that’s true or not, but it might explain why it translated so well, almost word-for-word, to the little screen. And if Duvall lost the Emmy that year, then he was robbed.

Falk/Columbo: I have nearly all the originals taped. They're much different from the 80's revival on ABC. I, myself, while admitting I'd only caught a handful of sporadic episodes, could never handle the new "version". Less subtle, and too self-conscious - as suggested by such lame-assed Francis the Mule-type titles like "Columbo Goes to College" - I couldn't handle it. I never bothered with the rest. They're vastly inferior to the original shows.

Western ramblins:

**Some of the LESSER known filmed Westerns I like a lot (and, yes, I'll leave out Jesse James Meets Frankenstein's Daughter):

The Scalphunters with Burt Lancaster
Last Train to Gun Hill w/Kirk Douglas
Duel At Diablo


But of the famous, I gotta go with the man there in the straw hat: SHANE is an awesome piece - deceptively simple, dense in symbolism and theme.

Outlaw Josey Wales is another one of my favorites, right up there with McCabe and Mrs. Miller. Y'know, Phil Kaufman was originally supposed to direct the former. I don't recall story behind it, but as we all know Eastwood took the job himself.

One feature of old westerns I was looking at closely not so long ago, was the way Indians were repeatedly attacking with no apparent reason whatsoever. Just seemed to be their species, to attack mindlessly, even running head on into gun blast - makin' 'em right ez critters ta scratch.

Not sure who had to put up with the worst stereotype in them days (mainly 30's & 40's, with gradual maturing beginning in the 50's): blacks or american indians. I mean, which would YOU want to be represented by? A happy, dumb, hopelessly uneducated farm hand (or train porter) - or a mindless unreasoning savage?

Finally, westerns I'd like to revisit soon: Little Big Man, Oxbow Incident, One-Eyed Jacks, Dances with Wolves, Unforgiven.

I'm leaving out the OBVIOUS ones: The Spagetts, Nevada Smith, Mag Seven, etc - since they remain the greatest.

On wearing the 'mulke and eating those mummified wafers
I've been to many weddings and funerals, both reformed (or conservative) and Orthodox and have never been asked to wear a tallis. I have my own 'mulke. I've even sat shiva with friends, and always wore the yarmulke to show the proper respect, but never a tallis.

I think that's all anyone asks, is to show the proper respect at a service.

And I believe Martin Luther once said that if he had any feelings of doubt at a service, he would not take communion, as he felt that would be hypocritical. So, good on Brian on that account.

Chuck

Loose Threads
Peter Falk - Hey; Peter Falk turned 80 just 2 weeks ago! There's a milestone for you - Harlan's still just a kid on the block. I do hope there'll be more Columbo episodes at some point. It's one of the few TV series I've bought the full run of (well; what's been released to date at any rate). They've released the series through 1989, and I'm dying for the 1990 season, since it will include the episode that starred and was directed by Patrick McGoohan (who also turns 80 next March come to think of it) entitled Agenda for Murder. Screenplay by one Jeffrey Blomm. One of the very best. Trust me.
Are there any recordings of Harlan's voice impression of Peter aside from the reference to it in On the Road with Ellison Vol. 3.? And has Harlan ever worked with him? (and apologies if that's been asked and answered somewhere in the Archives).

Westerns - I'm surprised no one's yet mentioned The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford by Ron Hansen, especially now that it's a Brad Pitt movie. The book was pretty good, but I haven't seen the film yet.

Harlan Ellison's Dream Corridor - My copy has finally arrived from from a shop called Things from Another World in Milwaukee, Oregon! My local comic store was out, and to the clerk's credit he knew what it was. "Why don't you have any in stock?" I asked. "We didn't order enough", he replied. Fair enough. So that's what I'll be reading tomorrow.

Oh, and just one more thing, Sir...
QI - UK Quiz Show hosted by Stephen Fry. It's brilliant, hilarious, Quite Interesting actually. Questions are awarded points based on how interesting the answer to a question is. Season Five just started, and as I've been watching I keep thinking how perfect Harlan would be as a guest panelist. (Rich Hall has been the token American to date, and he's fine but doesn't speak up enough).

Scott McKinley

LEIGH BLACKMORE in WOLLONGONG:

Are you out there reading this?

Yr. grateful Pal, Harlan

Imperialistic Chest Thunping Coming Soon
But Not From One Of The Usual Suspects:

http://www.associatedcontent.com/pop_print.shtml?content_type=article&content_type_id=384514

"I personally believe that China will be back on the Moon before we are. I think when that happens, Americans will not like it, but they will just have to not like it."

NASA Administrator Michael Griffin, September 17, 2007

Only forty-six years from "We choose to go to the moon, not because it is easy but because it is hard." to "Americans will not like it, but they will just have to not like it."

I know, I know. Most of you just don't give a rats ass.

That's the problem, and I will NOT argue the point. None so blind, und so weiter.

But I care, and I will not ignore the ugly fact of our once fondest dream being swept into the gutter of history.

It's an ignoble deed, and unworthy of us.

KOS

Lonesome Dove
RE: Lonesome Dove: McMurtry said in an updated edition to the novel that he intended it to be about unsavory (or words to that effect) characters in the old west and the public embraced it like it was the Gone with the Wind of westerns.

Also, Robert Duvall as Gus gave one of the greatest performances ever put on film. And he lost the Emmy!

Little Blue Books & Big Blue Books
I tried to include the following link by clicking and dragging and by coaxing and crook. But...as much as I like access to information and computer stuff, I must admit to having eleven thumbs when operating these selectrified boxes.

So, go to www.atheists.org and click on shopping and then click on
E. Haldeman-Julius.

Richard Halasz

Just John

"While folks are on the subject of westerns and faithful adaptations: LONESOME DOVE is one of the greatest westerns ever written (Pulitzer Prize winner too), and the mini-series adaptation is virtually word-for-word and scene-for-scene with the book, and flawless to boot."

Ah, Lonesome Dove.

Goddam, but that is one good piece of TV. In spite of an unfortunate incident with Mr. McMurtry (sumbitch wupped my ass at an industry achievement dinner thing or three a while back), I still love me some Lonesome Dove. It's one of those rare pieces of visual entertainment that even though I own it, when it comes on TV, I ALWAYS get sucked into it.

I had the distinct pleasure of working with Simon Wincer, the director, a while back. We were doing a western with Willie Nelson that, sadly, never got made, but the experience of working with Simon was one of those very rare and very fine ones. And of course I peppered him with questions about LD. He was a gigantic fan of the book and of McMurtry's, and I got the sense that he was deeply, deeply proud of that one. Who wouldn't be?

Cowboys and stories
All this talk of Zane Grey and Louis L'Amour reminded me of my Mom's discussion of why SHE didn't read Grey. Apparently, she was reading along and came to a passage that described "foam-flecked flanks" on the cattle.

If you're writing cowboy stories, you should at least know something about the animals involved. Cattle don't sweat up a storm the way horses do, and Mom knew that even if Grey didn't.

Threw her right out of the story, and she never read another of his.

I know how she felt. On a long road trip with my then-significant other, the thriller book-on-tape she insisted on listening to (before falling asleep and leaving me to surreptitiously switch on the radio) had the hero switching off the safety on his Glock pistol.

I own a Glock.

I don't even look at that author's books, won't watch movies based on his stories, and will steer people away from him if asked.

Fucking creative typists.

Re: More Religion and Tube Steaks
"So the Buddhist goes up to the hot dog vendor and says to him, 'Make me one with everything!'"

The vendor pocketed the money, and handed the Buddhist monk his hot dog. The monk, after waiting for a moment, asked for his change. The vendor looked at him and said, “Change comes from within.” With a wistful smile, the monk walked away.

Westerns and faithful adaptations
While folks are on the subject of westerns and faithful adaptations: LONESOME DOVE is one of the greatest westerns ever written (Pulitzer Prize winner too), and the mini-series adaptation is virtually word-for-word and scene-for-scene with the book, and flawless to boot.

Apologies to Alan...er...ALEX!!! And a word to Harlan
I can't believe I did that. Sorry, Alex. All I can plead is fatigue at the end of a long day....

Harlan: I don't know about the totality of your diet, but I do know that most dietary experts say that hot sauce is good for circulation and the heart. And I once read a study done by Harvard Med School concluding that happiness, lack of negative stress and satisfaction in life added more to health and longevity than giving up smoking, losing weight and exercising combined. My father was a writer and a world class eccentric who did not smoke or drink but otherwise did everything against doctor's advice. He enjoyed life tremendously, cheerfully injured his career standing up to HUAC and ate ice cream every day of his life. All the men in his family died of heart failure in their forties. He died of the same thing--in his eighties. Spirit and attitude count. A lot.

Oh, Markie..
Goldberg

If it's between the feast that Harlan described, and a few cheesesteaks, I'll take the Feast anytime.

I mean Harlan has a rather discrminating pallet, or so I've been told. You can get cheesestake anywere. Good BBQ is most difficult to find. There's only one place in all of SF that does the way I like, and it's a total pain in the butt to get to.

I make this comment because you mentioned the brow beating you got to me on Facebook. I agree with Harlan 110%. Not because he shows up here from time to time, but because you should always respect the opinion