Unca Harlan's Art Deco Dining Pavilion

Archive - 05/59/2007 to 08/08/2007

Unca Harlan's Art Deco Dining Pavilion

ABC---ratings

Did anyone here ACTUALLY expect ABC to promote the show in any meaningful way? Come on. Nitwork Television doing anything other than filling the time slot and wishing? Let's get real.

Ratings higher on Star Trek in the 60s? Of course they were. Has nothing to do with quality and everything to do with:

There were only 3 networks back then---many areas had only 1 or 2 channels available, not 50-60 or even over 100---some cities had 1 independent channel that only showed odd stuff and that frequently went off the air early in the evening---PBS was just starting or was just about to start (you do the research, I haven't time)---and finally, American's were still in love with the promise of television and watched it religiously. So of course Trek scored higher than Masters of Science Fiction did.

{{Side note: I am so soured on television that I recently had my cable service disconnected. I can get 2 local channels, and those not very clearly.}}

REPLY TO TODD CASSEL

Hey, kiddo ... thanks for the heads-up. Called Keith Addis, producer of MASTERS..., and sent him your post. HE called the honcho at ABC-TV who could do something about this; and he sent HIM your growl. That's ALL we here in the trenches can do.

Hope it works out for you.

We both know that NOBODY here at Webderland would download a skim for you, so you'll just have to wait for the spiffy extras-abounding DVD package, sooner rather than later.

Yr. Pal, Harlan

Concerning the internet...
Maybe I should have forgone the story, it probably didn't do me any favors...

I didn't mean online gaming or 'net surfing or any ONE or even couple of things people do on the internet. I just meant the attitude, the mindset. The old, y'know, "meeting" people over long distances except you're not really meeting them because they acting in ways they never would 'in the flesh'. Or the flip side, where maybe people show what they're really like because if they did it beyond pushing buttons on a mouse and keyboard, they'd get thumped.

I suppose it sounds better to characterize it as shagin did, though.

And as for the obvious self-absurdity of the idiots... well, maybe. But since it only takes one of them to cancel out my vote, rough me up or say, declare war, I figure it's wise for me to take some time out now and then and consider even what the idiots are doing.

The New York Times ran a headline like "RECORDS MAY PUT NEW SPIN ON HITLER"?

Boy, I'd hate to be Ian Kershaw right now. Completes a detailed, thoroiughly-researched two volume biography of Hitler, regarded as definitive... and now he'll have to _rewrite_ it all because Hitler had a couple of Mahler records. Bet _his_ face is red.

To Rob: what's so effeminate about "charm?" Look who have it. Our host. George Clooney. Cary Grant. Errol Flynn. Clark Gable. Me. What's effeminate about that?

The Batman. I got nothing to add. Damn near every variation on the character's been done. Back in high school, I had an odd idea about a reporter who decides to check into Batman's secret identity, and finds it out in an _instant_: finds old WPA maps of the caves right under Wayne Manor, for example. Guy makes a good case that having the local millionaire be able to exert his own notions of the law, backed up with high-tech weaponry and cloaked in secrecy, is not healthy for Gotham or democracy. In those days, that would never have flown in a comic book. Now... ehh. Old idea. Probably been done by now.

Various
Harlan wrote a horror story called "Keyboard," which may be as close as he'll ever get to a true internet expose.

I didn't think of asking Scott, my editor at Scifiweekly, to plug my book beside my review. Ah, missed opportunity.

Josh Olson fans, and the man himself, may wanna check out this entry of Entertainment Weekly's Best Twenty Lists -- it's a compilation of twenty of their favorite movie finales ever, which along with such obscure titles as SOME LIKE IT HOT, THE THIRD MAN, and GODFATHER PART 2, mentions a certain scene where a traumatized family meets around a silent dinner table.

...

Aaaarggghhh. For some reason I'm having difficulty pasting the link; rest assured that you can access it via Ew.Com or through the Entertainment Page at the Huffington Post.

A sad prediction
How much ya wanna bet that the already lousy MASTERS OF SCIENCE FICTION ratings get even worse over the next three installments?

It's actually saddening to think that back in the pre-cable days, the worst episode of STAR TREK or any of the Irwin Allen atrocities got ratings twenty times higher than MASTERS did.

Yet another apology
I think I'll just create a word pad doccument, and keep it on hand for the constant apologies I seem to be making. Just edit it accordingly.

Barney, so sorry for the missunderstanding!

travel tip
anyone visiting philly who's tired of the 10,000 sendak prints and original poe and joyce documents at the rosenbach or the impressionist glories of the barnes may want to e-mail gary lassin at Garystooge@aol.com and make an appontment to visit his*****three*****story*** 3 stooges museum. oh,and happy birthday to Stan Freberg.

The Day's Priorities
I've always been uncomfortable around effeminate words like "charm" - particularly for a violently visceral and cerebral show like OUTER LIMITS; from chest-exploding squibs to cold corpses popping up every now and then, this was a macho show; a studly show; a GUY'S show!

...hence, the Expressionistic and cinematic POWER of the Outer Limits.

Masters of Science Fiction
Just to expand on previous post, "A Clean Escape" drew an estimated 2.73 million viewers Saturday night, according to the Nielsen ratings in the LA Times. I guess the critics all got screeners, but there didn't seem to be very much other promotion, on air or off. The shappy treatment by ABC really is deplorable. Jerks.

A Clean Escape
I must admit, I wasn't all that impressed by the first installment of MASTERS OF SCIENCE FICTION. I found the story and its visual presentation as flat as the acting was overwrought (by two actors whose work I usually admire). For me, it didn't possess any of the expressionistic charm of the original OUTER LIMITS or the often near-cinematic quality of the first season of the revamped TWILIGHT ZONE. It just didn't do it for me, I'm sorry to say. Which is not to say I'm not looking forward to the remaining episodes...

Masters of Science Fiction performed very poorly against the competition, undoubtedly earning an "I told you so" in the hallowed halls of ABC. I guess putting the show at 10pm on Saturdays with virtually zero network promotion did the job they wanted it to. Self-fulfilling prophecy and all that...
_________________________________________

Ditto what Harlan posted regarding Erik's appearance (again, the right word?) on KPFK. Fascinating and fun conversation with the show's host -- though my favorite lines all came from the announcer's set-up to the interview, describing Mr. Nelson as having "been around the block" -- and noting his DWST work with the "incendiary author, Harlan Ellison".

Burn, baby, burn.

(But yeah, the highlights were the discussion of Erik's work with Werner Herzog)

_________________________________________

PenultiLastly, it would seem that not only does Mr Hitler paint roses from a canvas in Hell, but also had an ear for Jewish music...

"RECORDS MAY PUT NEW SPIN ON HITLER
Michael Schwirtz, New York Times

Wednesday, August 8, 2007

Outward hatred for Jews and Russians may have belied a secret passion for some of their greatest musical works, if a recently discovered cache of records proves to be the remains of Adolf Hitler's private music collection.

"The nearly 100 records, now worn and scratched, were stored in the attic of a former Soviet intelligence agent, who left a note saying he took them from Hitler's Chancellery after the fall of Berlin in 1945.

"Among the records are recordings of works by Tchaikovsky, Borodin and Rachmaninov, and prominent Russian and Jewish musicians, notably Bronislaw Huberman, a Polish Jewish violinist, an article in this week's Der Spiegel magazine said."

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2007/08/08/MNCGREUK71.DTL
__________________________________________

Lastly...

Bruce Wayne? Batman?

&%$#!

Never saw THAT coming.

(And have you ever noticed you never see Hal Jordan and Green lantern in the same room at the same time? Clark Kent oughta investigate this stuff.)

self-evident subtleties

A-T C:

Nice piece. I loved the tag note. But why didn't they flog your book?

KOS:

Jesus, who got up on the wrong side of the bed yesterday? The flimsiness of your logic makes me suspect you posted before your first coffee.

I don't think it's obvious to anyone that a great story can be made out of a crazy guy chasing a whale, or a buncha guys squabbling over an illusory real estate deal. Hubris and avarice are indeed obvious character faults, but how to dramatize them is another kettle of fish. Art is, well, artistic, and a challenge.

The person who asked about video games was requesting a public statement, an essay, on a matter that is indeed -- instantly, self-evidently -- obvious. Mr. Ellison has spoken out for years about his uninterest in the Internet, the dangers of too much television (whether one writes for it or watches), and various time-wasting, trendy activities of youth.

Why should he repeat himself, especially on such an obvious issue? Now, one trick of a great essay is to take something that looks obvious, and make something different of it; but trust me, I suspect that either little of eyebrow-raising import could be made of this incident, or that Mr. Ellison would not be interested in making the effort.

Dammit, I knew there was a reason I never saw Bruce and the Bat together. Now if you could just tell me who the Joker really is.....

I understand about not answering openly but I am glad that you have had a chance to work on such a project. I look forward to hearing more about it in the coming months

Mark

Arizona Will Not SeeThe Discarded
All you denizens of AZ: alas, we will not be seeing The Discarded on Masters of Science Fiction unless a DVD release is planned.

Forget your TV Guides....take a look at the Arizona Cardinals pre-season schedule. This Saturday night (episode 2 of MSF) they are playing and it is broadcast by channel 15 (ABC). Scan through your DVR teevee guide if you have one and note that there is no plan to move MSF to another time or night.

Now check out their pre-season schedule for 8/25, the night of The Discarded. Same thing.....Cardinals on channel 15.

That's all she wrote. ABC dumped the series on the the wasteland of Saturday night television, and then our local affiliate has dumped half of the series for meaningless practice games.

Sigh.

-TODD

Comedy, humor and the loading docks
BARNEY: What always amazes me is that humor as obviously over-the-top -- or even whimsy (whim-for-chist'ssake-zee) -- is so often missed! I think there was a kinda-famous writer-guy who pointed out that getting whacked was easy but getting others to understand the joke was a pisser (somethin' like dat).
-DTS

The Internet reduxded
*** Lori ***

I could say something like my last post needed to be grokked in its entirety - or that you missed a certain sardonic tone in the second half - but humor needing explanation is humor failed.

Off to the loading docks for me.

- Barney Dannelke

Hoffer, PA.

Mark,

"Saw an article that mentioned you might be working on an anime series filling in the gaps between Batman Begins and The Dark Knight. If so, that would be very cool. Can you comment on this?"

The problem with the internet is I feel like I COULD answer this openly, but within a day, it'd be all over the net. (Not cos of my involvement, just the nature of the project.) I'll say this - the article is fairly accurate. Your characterization is not quite. It isn't a series, and it doesn't fill in gaps between the two films.

I'll also say this - it was a tremendous kick, and a huge honor to be a part of it. Batman is one of my all time favorite characters, and getting to write him - especially in something this cool - was a fantastic opportunity, and I'm tremendously proud of the work I did on it.

I'll give you one big spoiler, though, because I love you and everyone else who posts here.


You ready?



Batman....



Take a deep breath.




Sit down.







is Bruce Wayne.

New List, Awesomely?
Keith:

You got off easy. Y'gotta remember, this is how "Jeffty is Five" got started, after all.

Now, if Unca Hollin comes up with a new story based around your misfortune, won't that make you feel all better?

Hee.

Tad

A question for Barney
"...I find it to be an electronic ivory tower of high-mindedness and an intellectual refuge in these troubled and confusing times.

Barney

Please explain this statement, in light of the fact that the two most venerated things on the internet, Wikkipeaia and YouTube, have little to no editorial viewpoint, or editing for that matter.

The internet is a grand thing for overviews, and learning the basics of a subject, but I'll always turn to books and people who can prove to me that they know more than I for my deep knowledge.

Lori

ME, REPORTING IN
Erik was most charming and edifying on KPFK today. Not so much about me or DREAMS (though that comment was jes' fine, jes' fine), but his comments on Werner's work with him. Erik is now officially A Treasure.

Yr. Pal, Harlan

Interzone 210
Hi Sue

Interzone 210 is out now, do you want me to send you a copy?

Love Steve

The Internet
I don't know what you mean about things on the internet being odd or bizarre. I find it to be an electronic ivory tower of high-mindedness and an intellectual refuge in these troubled and confusing times.

And now here is seven minutes of Japanese bikini rodeo pie-fighting which I came upon while reading a sports blog editorial that was implying that Paris Hilton would have sex with a vending machine. With NBC announcing 30,000 hours of Olympic coverage I suppose these could both very well BE sports.

http://www.ifilm.com/video/2809150

This message and video is also on the way to the stars. Just sayin'.

- Barney

Saddlehorn, PA.

Ewe Ess Aay
"I suspect Mr. Ellison feels he has much better things to do with his time than devote the hours necessary to research a piece that would point out to other folks the self-evident absurdity of game players and 'net surfers. Almost anyone could do that."

Interesting.

Seems just about every great novel, play, film what-have-you of narrative storytelling art starts with something "obvious". SO "just about anybody" could research and write, ooh, say "Mody Dick" or "Glengarry Glenross" (sp?)? Hubris and avarice both being such obvious character faults, ones that sea captains and salesmen are so clearly prone to.

I mean, why would ANY artist want to waste their time on such "obvious" matters.

Maybe because men seldom need teaching, but often need reminding?

One trick of art is to take the "obvious", reveal it as marvelous and new, and walk away from the work with a shrug as the crowds wonder "how did he do that?".

You're full of wild blueberry stuffed muffins, or whatever the saying was.

Tasty, though.

KOS

mosf
i thought it was well done but i question its positioning as the first episode. to be honest it reminded me of the preachier serling twilight zones with the payoff obvious about five miles down the turnpike. why they didn't open with Harlan's episode escapes me- you would have had more of the accepted idea of what a sf episode would consist of, with Harlan's and josh's names attatched to it, with hurt and dennehy and with a tenuous star trek connection. (and is ray winstone in it? that would include an indy 4 connection- all of which would help to market it) (of course they're dumping the series so all of the above is moot.) looking forward to the 25th. jz

To all you foodies: Anthony Bordain, who is an exotic eats expert, has a show on the Travel Channel about his travels to find the perfect food. He looks at the exotic and the normal. Love to watch a guy who just loves to try any kind of food or culture. American's need to get out more--explore uncharted realms.

He went to NY, ate a Sheeps head, said it was wonderful, had Russian food, his favorite French food, bone Marrow. Frog chowder in Chinatown, mountain oysters middle eastern style in Queens. It all actually looked wonderful. It's really about how you cook it, not what it is.

--------

I've eaten wild game and snake, about as exotic as I get.

Josh,

Saw an article that mentioned you might be working on an anime series filling in the gaps between Batman Begins and The Dark Knight. If so, that would be very cool. Can you comment on this?

Here is the article:

http://www.syfyportal.com/news424002.html

Mark

Response to Todd
Todd: As it happens, I was assigned to review the book by Scifiweekly.Com; I discuss it at length in my review, one of the top ones in the book section. Check it out there, or I'd be repeating myself. Essentially, I thought it was downright apocalyptic, I was stunned by some of the deaths, and I do not know how they will make the movie without going for an R. (The book seems designed to piss off those guardians of taste, some of whom haven't even read the books themselves (Judi's cousin and my parents included), who find it scandalous that the entire series wasn't as gentle and bloodless as an episode of CARE BEARS).

I enjoyed "A Clean Escape," on MASTERS OF SCIENCE FICTION, but I was a little taken aback at the way the episode took pains to assure viewers that humanity would survive (NOT the setup of the powerful John Kessel story that spawned it); the change was not fatal, but I'm curious as to whether this was a decision made at the teleplay level, or whether it was mandated by a timid ABC.

DWST
I loved DWST so much I want to go out to California again, but it is not in my cards this time. I'm in Philly today and next week I'll probably be in Boston for 10 days, and I don't have the stamina to hit California in between. I just added my 206th pound, and it ain't muscle.

I will be at the Cleveland gig, though, if all goes well (I'm not going unless I get my weight under 200).

As for DWST...yes, it is a must for anyone who knows or is a fan of Harlan's. BUT...nothing quite compares to sitting at the opposite end of the table from him, and having him yell down at you, "So, Keith, tell us about your life!"

I mean, that's so unfair.

And me, being the naive guy that everyone knows I am, took the bait and said the first interesting thing that came to my mind, "Well, I went to a Nudist Colony once."

Harlan said, "What?" Everyone else stopped talking.

I repeated myself, louder.

Harlan asked, "You had a Venusian Colostomy?"

I said, "No, I said I went to a NUDIST COLONY."

He said, "A Nubian Colony?"

I then shouted, "NO, I WENT TO A NUDIST COLONY!"

Every patron at Mogo's heard me.

Good times.

-Keith

Mr. Butler wrote:

"but just odd people and the internet generally and how BIZARRE it can get. I mean, this was a new one on me."

Eh, no more odd than holding a black powder shoot memorial for a member of a rendevous club that died, or holding a memorial blood drive for a favorite writer at a science fiction convention, or getting together with friends for a round or three of golf as a memorial to a fellow friend and player who passed. It's remembering the person, and in this case perhaps even the character, and celebrating the color and joy they brought to people's lives. If the group did have a memorial in a PvP area, or on a PvP server, doesn't surprise me they were attacked.

***

The move is finished!!! *falls to the ground floor, kissing the tile*

S.

bytes and bites

Brandon Butler asked:

:: Anyway, my question is if, his hostility to the
:: absurdities of the internet well known, Mr. Ellison's
:: ever written any stories about this sort of behavior.
:: Not, you know, online funerals necessarily, but just
:: odd people and the internet generally and how BIZARRE
:: it can get. I mean, this was a new one on me.

I suspect Mr. Ellison feels he has much better things to do with his time than devote the hours necessary to research a piece that would point out to other folks the self-evident absurdity of game players and 'net surfers. Almost anyone could do that.

His last word on the subject of video gaming was likely "Rolling Dat Ole Debbil Electronic Stone," written more than two decades ago and published in _Sleepless Nights in the Procrustean Bed_.

KPFK
Regarding Erik's appearance this afternoon on KPFK, if you aren't available to listen to the program live (as is the case with me), apparently the programs eventually get archived here for later listening:

http://64.27.15.184/parchive/index.php?sort=nameaz

If I'm not mistaken, the show you should search for is EXPERIENCE TALKS...

Harry Potter and the End of the Hype
So, Adam-Troy, being a loyal reader of your Unauthorized Harry Potter, I need that summary comment: what are your thought on Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows?

-TODD

Live Streaming Radio, Pre-recorded DirecTV and a Local News loss

ERIK and INTERESTED WEBDERLANDERS

KPFK has an online LIVE audio feed which makes your appearance (do you call it that on radio?) on this afternoon's show available to Webderlanders everywhere.

http://www.kpfk.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=260&Itemid=82&lang=en

2PM PST, 5PM EST

________________________________________________

SUSAN - What Brian sez below sounds good to me. We don't use TiVo (I'm such a luddite, I know), so haven't a clue how to block the second, third and fourth recording of HANNA MONTA... er, JUDGE JUDY.
________________________________________________

Still trying to figure out a way to join y'all on Thursday, but Cris heads back into the studio starting Monday and there is a LOT going on. I can heartily recommend that anyone who has NOT seen DWST needs to get their butts into the theater for this showing -- seeing the movie makes you FAR more interesting at dinner parties; reinforces your reputation among THE intelligentsia of America; ANSWERS the question as to the meaning of Life, The Universe and Everything without mentioning the number 42; INTRODUCES the question of what Susan Ellison was doing dancing around naked outside her house; cures WARTS; will make you laugh, cry AND giggle maniacly to yourself -- simultaneously -- and is a bitchin' keen way to spend a few rewarding hours of your LIFE.

GO!!!

_______________________________________


Lastly, and this will likely make no difference to anyone outside LA, but we lost another major Los Angeles news icon last night. Hal Fishman, KTLA Anchor for nearly 32 years, passed away after being diagnosed with cancer only a week ago.

http://ktla.trb.com/

Online Funeral?
Question for Mr. Ellison, but if I'll be permitted, a little background:

So at work on lunch I will at times cruise the headlines and certain forums (such as the present one) looking to see what's new.

Going past MSNBC I notice something mentioned called MyDeathSpace.com in one headline and, interested, I clicked to see what the editorial was about. Skip on ahead if you've read this already, by the way.

Frankly, reading it, I still don't know anything about MyDeathSpace.com as I've already forgotten what all that was about. What DID draw my attention was this story about the online game "World of Warcraft". One of the players died in real life. People that had interacted with this person online decided they would have a memorial for them within the game. I don't know if the memorial was for the person or the online character, though.

Anyway, the upshot is that they conducted this memorial, with thier online characters in something called a 'war-zone'. I guess there's areas in this game where you can fight and places where you can't. As the article said, you may already sense where this is going... the online mourners were attacked and "killed" by another group of players while in the middle of their memorial/funeral. Apparently these guys showed up out of nowhere and outright slaughtered 'em.

Anyway, my question is if, his hostility to the absurdities of the internet well known, Mr. Ellison's ever written any stories about this sort of behavior. Not, you know, online funerals necessarily, but just odd people and the internet generally and how BIZARRE it can get. I mean, this was a new one on me.

Provocative art
ALL: If you folks haven't seen the story about this guy Phil Hansen -- who creates portraits using things as varied as Starbucks cups and graphite as well as his own blood and hundreds of bandaids and photocopies of the bible, ya gotta checkout the sites below (stumbled across it all when the news page popped up, before checking email). He's doing what a lot of artists only hope to do: provoking thought through the audacity of his methods.
-DTS

http://potw.news.yahoo.com/s/potw/23115/strokes-of-genius

http://philinthecircle.com/

To Susan, re DVR
Okay, I don't know if yours is a TiVo or not, but the problem may not be your settings. On a TiVo, if you set up a Season Pass (the way it records a series), and First Run Only, you've done it correctly.

But for your DVR to _know_ that a show is first-run or a rerun, the show has to be tagged that way by the broadcaster. Some networks do this well, others don't. So you may have your DVR set perfectly correctly, and still wind up with a TiVo full of the same stuff over and over. Simply because the TiVo has no way of knowing that the shows are reruns.

So here are two solutions. The first is to _not_ use the Season Pass, and have it Record by Time or Channel, in which you tell the machine to record a channel at a specific time-- say, every Monday night at 8 p.m. to 9 p.m. That should work pretty well, unless the broadcasters change the timeslot of your show.

The other is to go into your Season Pass, use the option to View Upcoming Programs. This will display a list of upcoming episodes, which you can select and deselect for recording. It's a bit cumbersome, but it'll work.

Hope that helps, best, Brian Siano


1.

Modesty Forbids....
...but I allow...for all you Angelenos out there, I am going to be on KPFK,90.7 FM, tomorrow, Tuesday, at 2PM, LIVE, discussing, among other things, GRIZZLY MAN and the grizzly "Dreams With Sharp Teeth", and no doubt, the subject of working with Our Host will come up.

This program seems to be the public radio answer to AARP, and I am somewhat depressed to now be the Voice Of Experience, but, anything to sell tickets to Thursday's screening.

But -- the REAL reason to tune in is that they have a pre-recorded segment with the great Richard Matheson in the very SAME show, so, I am but an opening act.

Anyway, check it out if you want to hear first hand new ways of inserting feet in mouth.

Here is where you can go for more information:

http://www.pacifica.org/program-guide/op,program-page/station_id,2/program_id,240/day,Tuesday/

Best,
Erik

United States
Re: Interzone 210 June 2007

This issue has been on sale in Barnes and Noble for approximately six to eight weeks already. I would recommend that if you are seeking one off the shelf, you zip out and buy it now, because 211 is published and shipped.

Mike

Note to Harlan & Tim: The release of the German edition of HOT BLOOD 1 has now been moved to November (no date).

The media, as usual, is overplaying the bridge disaster. They go from reporting to exploiting, usually in one fell swoop. Idealistic American's sadly fall for it, believing the media actually cares. If you notice they never offer to donate their profits from the story to the victims funds.

-----------

Here's one for the laugh department: on Hannity's America last night, Sean Insanity did a piece about the myth of global warming, but later did another piece outlining the facts around demon possessions and exorcisms. Logic is lost on the right, but they do make me laugh.

-------------

Masters of science fiction
I did enjoy the premiere episode.
But I know why ABC dropped the show like hot magma.
There are no young beautiful people doing trendy things that will sell product.
In my mind this is a good thing.
We got a show that was basicly two people talking.
But it was well written, acted and directed.
Just what I want from entertainment, plus a swipe at the current administration. I'll enjoy these gems, and get the DVD when it comes out to see the two unaired episodes.
I can count the network TV shows I watch on one hand, it's truly a "vast wasteland".

Interzone
Mrs. Ellison - looks like it was 11 May, according to the following (sorry for long link):
http://scifi.uk.com/2007/04/23/interzone-210-contents-harlan-ellison-theodore-sturgeon/
(Also sorry for posting twice in one day, will vanish for 48 hours as penance...)
Best regards,
Jes

The police on Sunday reduced the cordon around the bridge and are now allowing foot traffic on the Stone Arch Bridge that crosses the Mississippi very close to the crash site.

Some co-workers and I went onto the Stone Arch over lunch today and were able to get as close as possible. I was going to make a smart-ass remark about Bush's visit but, after seeing that devastation and how many cars are still in the river, somehow I don't have the heart.

As for the Masters of Science Fiction inaugural episode, I would agree that it compares favorably to the 80s version of the Twilight Zone. I was not as enamored with Sam Waterston's performance at first, only because I was uncertain about the character's motivation. When more of his story was revealed, I realized that it was a virtuoso performance from Mr. Law and Order. I am very much looking forward to subsequent episodes

I have two quick questions.

This first one may be for the Brits. Does anyone know the pub. date (onsale date) of INTERZONE #210 (June 2007)?

Second. A Direct TV question. I set my DVR to record a series. Even if I set it for First Run only, it will tape ALL the first runs for that week. Any thoughts on how I can get it to tape a first run for one particular hour and date?

Thank you.

See you on Thursday.

Susan

scattered thoughts:

Note that _Death Ray_ is looking for a Staff Writer, should anyone feel inclined to audition.

The Thing That Squats, GW Bush, had to go to Minneapolis, because the Governor is dancing fast to avoid overmuch consideration of how he's dragged his feet on road-&-bridge repairs, with years of state Repugnican collusion, so that all them rich people could be bribed into not moving to, say, South Dakota. Those of us with a cynical turn think that such savings could generously be described as "penny wise, pound foolish," & perhaps that this is yet another indicator that the GOP is incapable of doing even the minimum required of a proper featherbedder.

The "Hello Kitty" icon has been on what could fairly be described as EVERYTHING. Like a pastel battery-powered vibrator. Look it up.
Maybe their hope is that the preteens will demand that Tex-Mex Strat of Mum & Da because it's got a cartoon on it, rather than for its superior tone. Marketing usually doesn't depend on rationality.
A book: _Hello Kitty: The Remarkable Story of Sanrio and the Billion Dollar Feline Phenomenon_

Missed #1 of _MoSF_ due to sinus attack, dammit -- knew I shoulda set the VCR before that "short nap."

point of odor


"Hello Kitty, invented by Sanrio Co. in 1974, has been popular for years with children and young women. The celebrity cat adorns everything from diamond-studded jewelry, Fender guitars and digital cameras to lunch boxes, T-shirts and stationery."


One thing I'm not clear on: How many children and young women go around slinging Fender guitars. . . . ?

Headlines. Film at 11.

I woke up this morning with one of those frustrating Everlasting Gobstoppers of a headache, and the damned thing followed me to work. Then, in booting the computer I am advised that corporate is conducting yet another pointless download to fix what was wrong with the last pointless download -- and my laptop needs to reboot a number of times (but the official notices won't tell me how many -- it's kind of like roulette without the possibility of winning). And lastly, coffee was through a convenient drive through, necessitated because I was running a bit late. I've got fast food swill in my mug.

So why am I smiling?

"BAD THAI COPS TO ENDURE KITTY SHAME"

"BANGKOK, Thailand - Thai police officers who break rules will be forced to wear hot pink armbands featuring "Hello Kitty," the Japanese icon of cute, as a mark of shame, a senior officer said Monday."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070806/ap_on_fe_st/odd_hello_kitty_cops

Ya gotta love it.

_______________________________________

Mark - I understand the local press and population are slightly annoyed with Mr. Bush's photo op next to the Mississippi. I guess he blamed the Democrats for not funding the repairs while the Republicans were running Congress.

Any truth to the rumor Barbara Bush is insisting that "it's really working out" for the victims of THIS disaster?
_______________________________________

Lastly but not leastly. Okay. Leastly. My second take on MASTERS OF SCIENCE FICTION.

The episode run Saturday night was a good one. The acting was terrific, and the script and execution were very good as well. The production values reflect a lower budget, but they did a good job of masking most of the restrictions. It reminded me, in both tone and tenor, of the reboots of the Twilight Zone and Outer Limits in the 1980s and '90s respectively. This is a good thing.

Sadly, because only six programs were produced, and only four are set to run, each single episode is receiving greater scrutiny than would any one of a 22 ep season. In a full series run, the best epsidoes would be lauded and the lesser stories would be forgotten. And, having a network exec publicly trash the show prior to the premiere only adds to the furor.

It will never happen, but someone at ABC needs to lose their job over the way this was handled.

IMHO. Of course.

Message for Just John
I cowtow to your comment about Harlan Ellison's picture.

A.E. Van Vogt
In today's Washington Post (AP article) there is a story concerning Kevin J. Anderson's completion of A.E. Van Vogt's unfinished sequel to "Slans". Included of course are authoritative quotes from some guy who occasionally posts on this board.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/08/05/AR2007080501345.html

Masters of Science Fiction
Re the picture of Harlan at the bottom of the page: "udderly" horrifying...

http://www.startrek.com/startrek/view/news/article/2303923.html

"Aren't the reviews and clips for "The Discarded" coming out a little early? I'm not reading or watching anything! You can put the links up here for J&H, but how about we don't discuss them.

If you've made up you mind about seeing something, you don't read the reviews and you certainly don't watch the clips."

Well, sorr-EE, Calamity Jane.

Again, Death Ray
Mr. Ellison,
Wonderful, speak to you then. I'm very excited to hear what you've got planned!
And as for Death Ray, well (trying not to sound like a shill), Barney's helpfully already posted the link to the website, but we're a new UK SF mag - currently working on issue 5 - from a new publishing company set up by Matt Bielby, who launched SFX, Total Film and a number of other UK mags. We try to focus a bit more on the literary side of things than our rivals; for instance, from issue 2 onwards we've run a large (normally 8-page) regular interview with big, important authors - Michael Moorcock in issue 2, Neil Gaiman in issue 3, Terry Brooks in issue 4, Ursula K. Le Guin in issue 5, and hopefully our gracious host in issue 6. Critical reception so far has been encouraging (we get a lot of positive correspondence from US readers, oddly enough) and sales are strong, and it's a joy to work for. If any Webderlanders have seen it, I'd be very interested in some honest criticism on it...
Anyway, advertorial over! Hope all is well with everyone.
Best regards
Jes

Death Ray...
Thanks for posting the Death Ray link, Barney. Did you look at some of the blog stuff on the website? Note the one about how THE PRESTIGE was good both as book and film. I really enjoyed the film...but was the novel written by THAT Christopher Priest? If it is, that explains a lot ...about why his subject matter is "professional feuds."

Grr...nothing Jes or any of us can do about the sucky (for Americans) exchange rate. I think it is over two dollars to the pound. Back when I first got to buying imported Dr Who stuff in the 80s a pound was about $1.40.

Wow, a *new* magazine that's still on paper! The Internet is killing newspapers and magazines because advertisers want the youth market and the youth market is online - the younger the readership, the more they want E-zines and the less paper ones. Publications like Teen People have become Internet-only. Not that I give a darn about trashy teenybopper celebrity-dirt, (better not to waste trees on it!) but I prefer holding a publication in my hands and fear I may live to see non-virtual periodicals (and maybe even paper books) vanish. Do give me recycled/sustainably grown/post consumer paper though.

Masters of Science Fiction

http://www.startrek.com/startrek/view/news/article/2303923.html

The review itself is not that great (more of a press release) but scroll down the page of the above link to see a great picture of our host.

Jeez Harlan I sure hope you've had that thing lanced by now, if not I have the number of a competent dermatologist he'll clear that right up for you.

Wishing you a Zit Free Future

Jarod Hitchcock

Harlan and Beaumont
The fake news is now the real news.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070805/ap_on_en_tv/tv_stewart_candidates
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Harlan, I saw a trailer sort of thing for a Charles Beaumont documentary that shows yourself, and others, as featured interviews.

I love Beaumont's work. Did you guys ever work together? THAT would have been a Partner in Wonder.

George Carlin?!


"We drink too much, smoke too much, spend too recklessly, laugh too little...and pray too seldom."???

I've no desire to embarrass Lori - as she already got the picture - but I must say I was RELIEVED to find that wasn't George Carlin.

Because when I first read it, I felt ALMOST disillusioned. This is Carlin, whose voice I've practically revered since I can remember? Sure as hell didn't sound like him. But I resolved to myself that - well - this is one of his "off" days, and perhaps an afternoon in Sunday school threw his gyros.

It was the "we pray too seldom"; I KNEW it couldn't be HIM! Carlin has always been a pragmatic thinker, scrutinizing human nature - weighing it by its history - not the blind faiths that, for eons, led to so MUCH of that history.

We don't PRAY enough? If ya ask me, there's way TOO much praying and not enough "DOIN'", if ya know what I mean.

THIS is a sample of the ironic edge George would never lose:

"I'm a positive person, thinking forward, positive, optimistic for myself and the people I know. But it doesn't take much of a brain to look around the world and say, "this is dumb." It's a freak show that's going to end. Thank goodness for the rest of the universe. Maybe it'll end before we get out and infect Mars and these places with our grotesque DNA."

I guess I decided to comment on this, because just the other day I got into a near shouting-match with a very religious dude, in the very place you DON'T want to get into this sort of thing: at work.

He insisted that he prays daily; and that he worships a loving God. But then he admitted that he's a Republican because he utterly opposes a welfare system. "What about those who, in fact, CAN'T help themselves for a time - whether it's due to poverty, illness, unemployment, a lack of education, or just, outright, the lack of an IQ?"

He didn't have any definitive answer, except that they always have the churches to turn to, that God will look after them, and that they need to learn how to be self-reliant, a trait, he felt, builds them into better human beings. It was as black-and-white as a response could be.

But to this day, he will NOT vote for anything but a Republican because - regardless of the realities, he "doesn't believe in a welfare system". (Never mind that, as with all things, the "kinks" could be worked out in an effort to MAKE a system that works, rather than just flat out dispose of it)

In other words, he worships a God that gives, yet he doesn't believe in taking it upon himself the gift of giving to those who can't help themselves. When religionists argue this, I always wonder how they imagine Jesus - whom they often CLAIM to believe in - would react to the policy.

This is among the hypocrisies I've always despised the most. Lip service to the ends that are convenient, but indifference to the roles that defines us as a civilization.

So, I walked away knowing that the office was not the place for me to lose my temper.

That's why - when I first read that "quote" by Carlin, I was momentarily dismayed.

I was SO relieved by the follow-up, and not at all surprised by the facts.

Death Ray magazine
http://www.blackfishpublishing.com/component/option,com_emmags/section,issues/task,show/issue_id,5/Itemid,66/

DEATH RAY TERTIUS

JES:

Thursday, 10am my time is fine.

I'll elucidate for you, the m.o. for an unusual -- but promising -- approach to the interview. This will be grand, I think.

Talk to you on Thursday. And in the meantime, Jes, why don't you post here to apprise my friends of the loveliness of DEATH RAY, a terrific magazine I have just discovered (through you) and which I heartily endorse. They may want to order some copies.

Yr. Pal, Harlan

Aren't the reviews and clips for "The Discarded" coming out a little early? I'm not reading or watching anything! You can put the links up here for J&H, but how about we don't discuss them.

If you've made up you mind about seeing something, you don't read the reviews and you certainly don't watch the clips.

MIKE: Agreed, for the most part. (I don't think that not learning about the names of the camps is an attempt to seperate history from horror. You don't forget things on purpose. People in your audience either know a a certain amount about the Holocaust or they don't. The names don't bring you closer, I don't think.)

I guess my problem is the idea that the Holocaust is a sort of random element of business and leadership (of all things) presentations somewhere, coupled with a "Who Wants to Be A Millionare" type "name the river/capitol/planet" type question. If you would take charge and put aside some time to educate your audience in a respnsible manner, that would be terriffic, but if you're just throwing out camp names to put people in categories, to cause embarrassment and guilt (productive though it may be in singular cases), that's hardly seems justification enough. It's tasteless. That's the way I see it anyway.

I appreciate what you're trying to accomplish (business leaders should not neglect their education) but there are plenty of subjects to bring up that can have the additional advantage of being more conductive to a pleasant atmosphere in your seminars.

If I understood you correctly, that is.

Jan

Jan

I’ve been thinking a bit about your response. First, you are correct that, if there is a failing here, it is with the educational system. To some extent, that is the point I am trying to get across to these individuals. Education didn’t end when they walked away from the ivy-covered halls. I’m trying to reinforce that there is a lot to learn out there, and instill in them the desire to keep searching. I am a manager of internal auditing, and I’ve always felt that there are three things needed to be a good auditor: the ability to synthesize information (that one is probably not a surprise), creativity (that one probably does surprise most people), and inquisitiveness. The constant desire to find out “why” results in constant exploring. Again, in my presentations I am trying to point out how knowledge, learning, and inquisitiveness are the keys to anyone’s success, and I am searching for the ones who want to learn more.

But part two. I am still personally bothered that the names of the camps do not resonate. True, individuals can have an understanding of the holocaust without knowing the camp names, but that is one step toward separating the history from the horror – a step towards depersonalizing what has occurred. As an example, I can talk about the US Civil War and that will cause certain responses in the listener. However, if I use words like Antietam or Andersonville, much more violent/memorable images regarding the horrors of that war should come to mind. The listener with the knowledge of those names will have a more personalized reaction – impact on people rather than just a historical event. And, relating this to the prior point, if I use those names and the listener is unaware of them, they should realize that they may be missing an important fact, and have the desire to find out more.

Mike

Death Ray redux
Dear Mr. Ellison,
Fantastic, thanks very much. I'll drop Mr. Wyatt a line forthwith about your contact details and give you a call on, shall we say, Thursday, around 10am your time? Hope that's OK. If not, I'm entirely flexible.
Many thanks again!
Best,
Jes

Dum-Dum
HE, got your goodies at the Louisville Dum-Dum. Great T's. In colour this year. Several buttons, a bag...both with the same logo and Hescox illo as the T. Carson in a helmet brandishing sword and ray gun.

The event keeps getting greyer. It's scary when I'm one of the younger ones. I guess in this age of CGI & whizzy computer games, Tarz and John Carter seem a bit quaint to the younger blood. Had a lot of laughs with pal Denny Miller though.

DTS,

I did indeed read "JEFFTY IS FIVE", but I always felt that story was more a case of society vs. misfit than old vs. new. However, on second reading, I can see what you're talking about.

------------------------------------


Speaking of THE DISCARDED, two clips from the episode are available online:

http://www.mastersofscifi.com/site/masters_of_science_fiction/episodes/the_discarded.html

There's too little here to make any fair judgement yet, but I like what I see so far. Harmony Teat looks great (and I mean everything ABOUT her looks great...the actress, the makeup, etc.) and I do like John Hurt's performance in the second clip, where he's talking to Curran. There's some great pathos to the line "The gift that keeps on giving...like another head!!" That's the kind of twitchy black humour people tend to display after being forced into incredibly unpleasant circumstances.

I'll be sure to catch this upon broadcast.

Note to Benjamin W.
Benjamin W: He already DID write that story. Read "Jeffty is Five" (If I missed the straight-faced humor, nevermind).
--DTS

Old Versus New
I assume the LA times reviewer was a younger person. I wonder if he/she reads sf (novels/stories, not just movies). Magazines like F&SF and Analog do still exist, you know. What stories would the Times writer have preferred adaptations of? You could send an email and ask! Well, maybe they're only into movies - but if someone was only reading newer SF, I'd be impressed that they read at all!

A lot of the hostility between old and new is *mutual* - face it, most of us here are over a certain age, and this whole board is dedicated to a man who still uses a manual typewriter. In our fast-changing world generations can never see eye to eye.

I think a lot of old stuff is good, but is it a crime to think there is genuinely new fiction, film or other art that is good too?

Young and silly at 42 1/2,

Kristin
P.S. Science fiction is a genre with futuristic tropes; science fiction writers (those who write exclusively sf and don't mind being *called* sf writers) tend to be people with a future oriented worldview. Some very old sf stories remain enjoyable,(which is why they are called classics) while others date badly.

The LA times nailed it.

http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/la-et-master4aug04,1,5448872.story?ctrack=1&cset=true

LA Times Review of MoSF


Just watched the Eastern feed of Masters of SF.

The LA Times reviewer is so full of crap -- either that or he's a complete idiot who wouldn't know an allegory from an alligator.

A review from VARIETY concerning Masters of Science Fiction:

http://www.variety.com/review/VE1117934314.html?categoryid=32&cs=1&p=0

I quite liked this bit:

"Whatever the business considerations, the best of these hours deserve better than being so unceremoniously shot into space. In that respect, the Ellison story proves strangely prophetic -- reflecting a network that didn't know what to do with an unconventional outcast that didn't fit neatly into a predetermined mold."

I agree with David Webb's comments. Maybe Harlan should write a tale about the world's inexplicably mounting hostility towards all things "old", huh?

Bob,

I so agree with you on Sunshine. Good ideas that could have been better executed. I was even more disappointed by 28 Weeks Later but that had to do with the casting.

For the filmmakers to get two spoilt middle class kids as the leads had me supporting the infected to get them. What is it with filmmakers? Have they never heard of getting someone from the estates? It would have made more sense and probably worked better.

A Couple of "Fors"
For Mark Spieller: Were you aware of the Ellison-Herrmann connection? Herrman scored "Knife in the Darkness," Harlan's episode of the CBS Western CIMARRON STRIP, having to do with Jack the Ripper out west. Parts of the score can be found on a very obscure CD, MUSIC FROM CBS WESTERNS, which you can probably find if you search the Net.

For Dennis Coleman: Harlan's first AVENGERS comic is part one of a story that concludes in that month's issue of THE INCREDIBLE HULK. You should be able to find the exact issue number on the Net. Harlan's second AVENGERS comic uses a plot that he originally submitted to Julius Schwartz for DC's HAWKMAN a few years earlier. Mr. Schwartz had to reject it, very reluctantly, becauuse he thought that it was way too adult for 1964 mainstream comics and would never get past the Comics Code. For all three of the comics mentioned - the two AVENGERS and the HULK - Mr. Ellison did the plots while Marvel's Roy Thomas did the actual scripts.

the other two MASTERS OF SF episodes filmed:
Robert Sheckley's "Watchbird" and Walter Mosley's "Little Brother" are the two episodes ABC hasn't scheduled. Dunno when the DVDs will be out (sooner rather than later, most likely), nor what other broadcasting services elsewhere might have scheduled...

http://community.tvguide.com/blog/TV-Show-Blog/Masters-Science-Fiction/800054129

Any ideas as to whether or not they're going to be making any more episodes of Masters of Science Fiction after these six, or is this going to be more of a one shot, miniseries kind of deal. I know none of them have aired yet, but I find myself wanting more already.

Masters of Science Fiction
The Los Angeles Times today gave the series a luke warm review, calling the stories so "last century" and pointing out the ages
of the authors (Heinlein b. 1907, Fast b. 1914, Kessel b. 1950 and Ellison b. 1934).
Sheesh, what would they have said about an H.G. Wells story?
They do say the Ellison adaptation has an "old school avant-garde charm".
BTW I plan to watch all of them.

Avenger comics by Harlan
Currently on Ebay are Avengers Comics #88 and #101, which they say are written by Harlan. Somehow I missed this part of your work. Any stories about it?

http://www.mastersofscifi.com/site/masters_of_science_fiction/episodes/

Composers
I, like many of you, have been a soundtrack fan for most of my life. My first soundtrack purchased was from a People's Drug Store in Vienna, Virginia. John Williams' THE TOWERING INFERNO.

Who would I chose to score my own film. Hmmm. What is the film about? Is it a comedy? Musical? Horror? Drama? (Big or little?)

The debate about who was and was not the best film composer of all time -- or who I would use for my own film -- has many possibilities for a defensible response. Given the lack of a specific genre requires someone of a wide range of capabilities. No "one note wonder" here. My choice?

Jerry Goldsmith.

Mr. Goldsmith turned out some terrific and very experimental work, even in some truly horrible films. Unlike Williams' easily identified symphonic style, Goldsmith changed from film to film, an at-times unmelodic chameleon, writing his scores strictly dependent upon the style of the film being scored. To me, that is the answer.

Just a short listen to his various styles demonstrates this nicely -- from the atonal electronics of PLANET OF THE APES, to the fully realized symphonic majesty of the STAR TREK films he scored, to the beauty and humor of MULAN, and the otherworldly claustrophobia of ALIEN. (And let's not forget his intimate "little" scores for, among others, the original series of THE TWILIGHT ZONE.)

So, my choice of all time would likely be Goldsmith.

But. There are two current composers I'm really fond of in the event our resuscitation efforts fail: Hans Zimmer (PIRATES 2 AND 3, of course, BATMAN RETURNS and THE THIN RED LINE) and Michael Giacchino (LOST, RATATOUILLE, MISSION IMPOSSIBLE 3, and *ahem* THE MUPPETS' WIZARD OF OZ -- now THAT is flexibility!).

It depends on the film being made, but both of these composers are currently at the top of their game and'd be my first and second choices, respective-like. (If Mr Gldsmith remains unavailable, that is.)

SOLARIS
Anybody interested in radio drama may like to know that the BBC are currently airing an adaptation of Stanislaw Lem's SOLARIS.

The first part can be listened to via the Beeb website until Sunday afternoon, with the final part available from the same source for seven days thereon:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/arts/classic_serial.shtml

Cheers
Rob E.

Masters of Science Fiction Question
Six episodes completed, but just four scheduled to air. What are the two stories that have been filmed but are not scheduled? I couldn't find any mention of them in any of the articles I've read.

Rob, I think you've got the right answer for the wrong question. I've been rereading an excerpt from _Bigger Than Life_, the bio of Lester Dent. In a couple of short pages, Dent detailed a formula plot for the 6,000-word pulp story that he all but guaranteed would sell.

On a writing site, we were discussing how formulaic most commercial romance novels, & how there's millions of rabid readers who don't want the formula "improved."

Just as some romance & pulp writing has justly been recognised for its literary merits, there are film scores that are incredible works of music.

But the fact is that the great majority was meant to be used in a specific context, then discarded. The score is as vital to the film as the sets, the props, the costumes... yet how many people preserve a reproduction & examine it regularly with a critical eye?

I had a friend who did backstage & tech work at the Guthrie Theater. Maybe you'd be surprised at how many of those costumes (especially for mobscenes) are downright laugh-provoking when seen close-up under the harsh light of day. I learned how to make really coll-looking "Roman armor" using sheets of pressed felt & hot-glue guns for the decorative squiggles: from twenty feet & under harsh gels, it's impressive as all hell... & it's thrown away at the end of the production because it gathers dust, the glue breaks down, & where the heck else would you possibly use it anyway?

John Williams is vastly overrated as a composer, as is Andrew Lloyd Webber. I'm surprised how often both steal from themselves, & somewhat less surprised that I seem to be the only listener to notice. I'm more inclined to forgive Williams because most of his work is meant to provide atmosphere or maybe forward movement.

(Yet I am a fanatic for pop composer / performers Richard Thompson & Bill Nelson, who rarely seem to even hint at something from earlier in the career. The latter has filled something like 60 CDs, & more often than not the impression is that one mind could not have created the adjacent tracks, they're so different.)

Movie Music
Although I do have a number of favorite film composers, Elmer Bernstein, Jerry Goldsmith, Max Steiner, if I had to pick one it would be Bernard Herrmann. The favorite composer of Orson Welles (for whom Herrmann did all the musice for The Mercury Theater of Air radio shows before they did Citizen Kane, etc) AND Alfred Hitchcock for that 10 year run of great films peaking with the shrieking violins of PSYCHO. Herrmann also did Westerns, Adventures, Fantasy (The Ray Harryhausen films), The Twilight Zone and did a large number of "library scores" for various CBS-TV westerns, dramas, and action programs

His last score a jazz one for "Taxi Driver" shows that he took his art and talent as serious as ever and ever ready to try something different from his usualy style of outre orchestrations.

What a shame that he is not around when there are so many Science Fiction and Fantasy programs and films that could benefit from his touch.

Japan
Hello! great idea of color of this siyte!

Stanley Wiater - He compiled a book of quotes from 50 contributors ranging from Clive Barker to Gahan Wilson (sans our host) discussing all kinds of topics. Dark Thoughts on Writing was published in 1997 and is recommended, if you can find it as it's OOP.

Response to Rob
Dear Rob,

I won't knock your taste in music; your opinion is your own, but I do offer the following:

In defense of Tiomkin, age may have been an issue, but do not forget what system he worked under. One can only imagine how many times he might have come up with something of note, only to have someone who swears s/he knows "what sells" , even though they don't have a dint of musical training, or even a good ear.

After years of playing it safe, giving them what they want, can you imagine what kind of artist submitted his work to "Wild, Wild West"? Some can rail against the system, some cannot or didn't want to. Also, truth be told, I would have a tough time thinking of appropriate music for a Western with futuristic and fantastic plots.

Also, even though I was two at the time, I gather from what I have read that a big-time Hollywood film composer would probably not sweat too hard over something for television, especially a Western, which TV of the 50's and 60's had, in abundance. There was even a Western, featuring children called "The Buckskin Kid" that featured adult voices dubbed in, ala "The Creeping Terror", which means, not even synched up properly, like, "The Corbomite Manuever". Given the time and budget, he may not have been working under the best of conditions.

In defense of Rob, however, you can hear what Tiomkin came up with here: http://www.dimitritiomkin.com/audio_clips.cfm , it is the second to last clip.

Also, people such as Tiomkin, Louis Levy, Max Steiner and Erich Wolfgang Korngold were among the first composers for film, so what seems dull now may be dull to you because so many lesser and greater have used the tools that these people helped create.

Having said all of that and since he does manage to squeak by your "before the '80's" timeframe, I would go with Tom Scott as the person I would not have hired to score a film. I have this theory that the powers that be at the time had this theory that Tom Scott invented Jazz and having done so was rewarded with seemingly all of the jazzy soundtrack work that Dave Grusin didn't get. Perhaps if I had not been inundated with his work, I would have had a different feeling about this, but I felt that many better Jazz composers were being rooked by the folks that kept hiring Scott.

Quincy Jones actually backed away from soundtrack composing, because he was feeling constricted by the amount of work. If you listen to "The Slender Thread"'s main title (3rd part) and "The Pawnbroker"'s "Harlem River Drive" you will hear VERY similar music.

I am a great fan of soundtracks and I appreciate the question, Rob. My late Mom is also smiling at you as well, because she REALLY dug soundtracks and movies and passed that on to me.

Brian

P.S.
Here is an account of what Rob was referring to:
http://www.filmmusicsociety.org/news_events/features/2004/083004.html?IsArchive=083004

P.P.S. One of the worst surprises is the soundtrack album to "Zulu". Barry's music is barely on it and it is replaced by dreadful faux-African pop music. No background music, no chanting. Harrrumph!

JES:

Any time, Monday thru Friday, between 9am and 5pm, LA time.

You can get my phone number from Rick.

He can also provide you with my address and fax number.

Have a recorder online when we talk. It can even be a conference call, if you want to bring any other editors into the loop.

Waiting to hear from you, at your convenience. Yr. Pal, Harlan

If you were one of the world's most renowned filmmakers - anytime in the era when movies were really movies (let's figure that prior to the 80's - and there IS a good reason), WHICH film composer would you refuse to consider, REGARDLESS of is Oscar status?

The name I've picked for myself is Dimitri Tiomkin.

Yeah, I know: the man won 4 Oscars; some of his high points include the original Lost Horizon, High Noon, Shadow Of A Doubt (which remains one of my favorite films), Mr. Smith Goes To Washington, Duel In The Sun, etc.

I've seen many movies scored by him, some I hold in the highest regard.

But...BUT...the more listen to him the more I come to feel is one of the most "by-the-numbers", formulaic, and predictable composers in movie history.

He was great at giving you exactly what you would expect the movie to have. And every one of the oooooodles of westerns he scored all sound like yer old-fashioned ho-downs, with ballads of the American frontiersman. Or he would give you a frenetic sound against the loop of kind of a corny theme, as he did for 36 Hours, practically ruining, for ME, some brilliant and complex scenes.

That had been my "feeling" for some time. So, I wasn't surprised to read recently some Wild Wild West history for the tv series, when he was commissioned to write the theme. The producers tried to explain to him that this was a new kind of show. A bizarre show, cutting edge fantasy fusing the Western with James Bond and Jules Verne.

Twice, TWICE he came up with some corny ballad evoking the Old Frontier. First he did the Ballad of Jim West, likening the character to some kind of Davey Crockett figure. The producers handed back to him, and tried to explain the more esoteric dimensions to the show. So, he hands them a second ballad that sounded more like Wagon Train.

When a guy is wedged so far in the past, and hasn't the creative latitude to experiment and work outside the box, I really don't regard him as so remarkable a talent. It took the talent of composer Richard Markowitz - who'd done The Rebel - to fuse elements of Jazz and a "neo-Western" to come up with a sound that emphasized the trippiness of the series.

Even if you could say, "well it was past his time", if you listen to the many Westerns he scored in the 50's, every score he did was as typical as the Western itself; and if it was an ABOVE average Western, it was his score that made it FEEL more typical.

If I were a filmmaker, I'd always be looking for composers with far greater latitude, making the sound part of a film's timelessness.

I never would have hired Tiomkin.

sunshine
Bob Homeyer --

Agree totally on the introduction of that character; but I still liked the very, very end. But they didn't need that person.

Incidentally, for anyone in the L.A. area, the American Cinematheque starts its Fantasy, Horror and Science Fiction Film Festival this weekend. Fun stuff like THE BEAST WITH FIVE FINGERS, MAD LOVE, I BURY THE LIVING.
Also rarities like Joseph Losey's THESE ARE THE DAMNED, Curtis Harrington's GAMES, Ken Russell's THE DEVILS and such.

Stanley Wiater and a Harlan Ellison Interview on YouTube
Stanley Wiater has posted an interview from his television show, "Dark Dreamers" on YouTube. While this is one of the rare times that I have seen someone that is involved with the actual project post something like this, I also know Mr. Ellison's disdain for YouTube and didn't know whether this was posted with his knowledge or permission.

Sunshine
Dennis: I saw "Sunshine" the weekend it came out, and I had a similar take on it. Other than some workmanlike performances and some screenplay short cuts (e.g. the Cillian Murphy character and his antagonist seem to come to blows a priori), the first hour and ten minutes were quite good, and reminded me structurally of "Red Planet" -- a series of unfolding crises, roughly every 10-15 minutes of screen time, that must be identified and solved, that create a war of attrition of sorts against the crew and the overall mission. I was also thrilled to see a decent science fiction film without a "II" or "III" in the title and with a significant budget that shows on screen. The third act though, was dreadful in my opinion, due largely to the introduction of the additional character, who I felt was unnecessary. Additionally, some of the visual homages to "2001" are a little too obvious.

I have recommended this film to others however, based on the first two acts alone.

Actually
Harlan, Irascible?

Harlan's TOTALLY Rascible.

I've seen him make a Racs of himself many times.

Dep't of "For What It's Worth"

*ahem*

Rick. You really outta fix that...

Dep't of
I've never found our host to be irascible. Ever.

Virtually every time he's grown annoyed -- in my very limited personal experience -- there has been a provocation.

(And, note, he has personally called me a "lying motherfucker" to my face. With a great deal of love and affection, but still...)

Just sayin'.
____________________________________________

CRAMER - Rest assured Crystal will be well cared for after your demise. While, yes, I (as they say on the 'net) "L'd" "MAO" with your final line, I realize you may indeed be an endangered species as a result. Please let her know we care and will give her the appropriate lifestyle as beholden a fallen icon once you're gone.

And Mark has first dibs.

trade reviews of MASTERS OF SCIENCE FICTION
Both Daily Variety and Hollywood Reporter gave good reviews to MASTERS OF SCIENCE FICTION today, with Variety singling out THE DISCARDED as the best of the bunch. Both reviewers somewhat attack ABC for dumping the series in mid-Summer on the dead (TV) zone of Saturdays. Variety calls Harlan "the ever-mercurial Harlan Ellison" and reports that he and Josh adapted his short story, saying "it showcases the kind of rich, detailed material that packs a surprising amount of character development into an hour."
The Hollywood Reporter critic says "the ingenious, irascible Ellison adapted his own material". I think when they grammar-check their reviews, if Harlan's name appears, then the adjective "irascible" must automatically be inserted before it.
The Reporter critic also lambasts ABC for putting on series like "The Bachelor" and "Wife Swap", but relegating this show to Siberia.

So is "ever-mercurial" better than "irascible"?

Incidentally, in regards to reviews and science fiction, have any of you gone to see 'SUNSHINE', the new science fiction one by Danny Boyle and Alex Garland? Most reviewers pooh-poohed it, claiming it is too derivative. Both Roeper and his guest critic went thumbs down; and the other two critics on the other syndicated review show (can't remember their names but it's a man and a woman and the guy admitted "I don't like science fiction" to which I growled: "then what good are ya?") also smacked it down.

Well I had an interesting reaction. As I watched it, my heart started to beat rapidly as I started to realize: "this is a serious character-driven science fiction work about a crew in a spaceship that is actually about something and actually has some interesting ideas in it!" I hadn't seen anything like this in I-can't-say how many years. And, yes, it doesn't all work. And yes, there are tiny elements of 2001, ALIEN, SOLARIS and (unfortunately) the execrable EVENT HORIZON in it. But at least it tries. And it tries to do it without Jedis or magic wands, just with science and fairly realistic characters. And I felt like a thirst I didn't know I had was being quenched -- cause they used to make movies like this a lot. But since this is an adult film that might cause you to think a bit, well it's got to be sidelined and denigrated.
Anyway, you might want to see it. It's not brilliant, but it tries hard -- even though there's some copping out before the end. Still highly worthwhile. Boyle has made some great films (TRAINSPOTTING) and some not-so-great (ever try to sit through A LIFE LESS ORDINARY???) but he's always doing something new.

Susn -used what i was sent to buy the oracle and the nail. enjoyed Harlan's intro immensely. best to you both, now and always. will know more cardiac wise after august 20. looking forward to MOSF.

Harlan:

Thanks for the reply. I'll keep my creative suggestions to myself from now on unless I'm asked! I definitely will be watching "Masters of S.F." this Sat. and hope it wins the ratings for it's time slot. If anyone wants to use the dreadful "Realms of Phantasm" as an example of the ULTIMATE bad name for a SF anthology series be my guess!

Hey Keith...

Now **THAT** is what I call a VACATION!!

Anyone can park a keester on a cruise ship, his or her(*) itinerary all planned out in advance, with no time to truly immerse oneself in the... PLACENESS of the place one is spending hard earned money to travel to.

**

(*)By the way, any progress yet on constructing a decent genderless pronoun? Just wondering....

Dear Harlan,

Please let me offer belated condolence on the loss of Tom Snyder. I only got the news last night that Mr. Snyder passed away. The world is poorer for it.

Daily assaults on our integrity perpetrated by ghouls like Bush, Cheney, Gonzales, O'Reilly and Coulter seem all the more monstrous with people like Snyder gone.

It was from you that I learned the phrase, "God be between you and harm in all the dark places you walk." I think it whenever a great person leaves us.

God rest you, Mr. Snyder.

'Two formerly straight men, ladies and gentlemen.'
Neil Gaiman and Jonathan Ross shared an intimate moment at the Eisners last week in San Diego, and I caught it on video.

(The quote above is from Neil, as found in CBG's coverage here:
http://www.cbgxtra.com/default.aspx?tabid=42&view=topic&forumid=25&postid=31867 )

Here's the video -- and there's more Eisners funnystuff if you click on the "more from this user" link:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aIDTTKdxbT0

SJPO

It doesn't matter how dumb we think Bush is, there are really smart people who conspired to put him into the anointed pulpit. Tony Blair and now Gordon Brown follow Bush around like grape feeders. The world is warped; best to admit right now that most of us here are certified aliens. Below the floating clouds there are a sorry lot, left to fend for life in a world of bad popular culture and dreck values. All one can do is hope. The aliens have to take over, that's all.

----------

Costa Rica is an odd place; one of the few central American outposts untouched by American imperial terror. Great beaches and suntanned hotties must still the death eye.

------------

I will say this without malice: without the democracy of the internet the left movements would be stone toast. Solidarity is a wonderful thing.

We areee the worrrrllld.

Sorry for breaking the law...
But I am a published author and Lori's Question was general. I find deadlines have a great focusing effect on me, whether the publisher has set one or if it's self-imposed. Silly things like no caffenine until this section is typed by 9PM or whatever up to no money unless the copyedit is finished. But I am not freelance and others' milage may vary.

Apology and a few questions
Mr Forrest and ATC

Sorry about my missattrubition. I never figured my father or friends to be ones to spread missinformation. But I stand by the context in which it was posted. Way too many good people had died that week, and we need to let those we love know it before it's too late.

Now for the questions: Other than not typing on a computer, which is something I just cannot give up, how do you guys discipline yourselves to acutally sit down and write?

Also, I have a seriously nasty self critic, and haven't quite figured out how to quiet the little bastard. I'll show something I've written to a friend, and he'll like it and I put it away. Next morning I take it out, read it to get back into the story and that little voice just savages it, and most the time I end up getting rid of it.

Any and all suggestions are welcome. I have great research for a seriously neat book sitting on my hard drive, but just can't seem to put it together for anything!

Peace and Chocolate
Lori

Yahho has a dandy piece about the show as well:
"Masters of Science Fiction" too artistic for ABC
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/television_masters_dc;_ylt=Alg3T9XImq8WWD4dD3M24rQDW7oF

"The Ellison contribution -- boasting the acting talents of a couple of greats named John Hurt and Brian Dennehy -- closes out a provocative, rich, lavishly produced, sharply performed quartet that ABC has seen fit to disdainfully conceal rather than proudly celebrate. But let them trim so much as a minute from the end of "Dancing With the Stars" and we'd never hear the end of it as the audience rose up in spastic rage."

Masters of SF on Fresh Air
The TV critic on Fresh Air reviewed "Masters..." glowingly, and praised "The Discarded" as the best of the episodes. He also slammed ABC for burying the series on Sat. night in August. The piece is on-line at: http://www.npr.org/templates/rundowns/rundown.php?prgId=13

Warm greetings to Harlan & Susan! (Just because.)

MIKE: Just because people don't know where the all camps were located doesn't mean they don't know about the Holocaust, they just haven't spent a great deal of time on it. I wouldn't necessarily blame them - it's not the most pleasant of subjects, and to really have some understanding about it requires a certain amount dedicated study. I would expect that the minimum of knowledge about the Holocaust that is considered obligatory in the U.S. is to be imparted by public schools, so any testing of the kind you do tells you more about the educational system than about the people you make judgements about. (My opinion.)

We all have considerable knowledge gaps, the important thing is that we understand a few basic facts about human nature and the way history unfolds. In my opinion people simply take too many positive things for granted, while they accept too many negative things, partly because they are used to them, partly because they don't know anything else. (Which is where people like Harlan come in.) :-)

A Query for Josh
Are you involved in the Batman Anime project currently mentioned on Majorspoilers.com? If so, why have you not flogged it here? If you aren't..never mind... as per the late Gilda Radner. Keith, I've not had the pleasure of meeting you or Crystal, but I feel sure true love will conquer...tho' I've heard that Harlan does not subscribe to Marquis of Queensbury...

Not even two Larry's can save you.
Harlan,

Bring your two friends, see if I care.

Mark,

I'm not dead yet. If you want a crack at Crystal, you better bring better Seconds than Harlan. I suggest two Darryl's.

:)

-Keith

Just spoke with Rick Keeney and he is OK, he was not caught in the crash.

Keith Cramer, hasta la vista, it was good knowing you buddy.
Can I date Crystal once you are gone?

Worse and worser
We’ve all previously discussed the amount of knowledge most people have about arguably important events. In particular, almost everyone here has heard Harlan discuss the blank looks one will receive when using the words “Buchenwald” or “Dachau”. I get the opportunity every once in a while to give presentations on leadership/management/other business BS topics. I now try to incorporate this discussion any way I can; first asking them if they know Buchenwald, then Dachau, then Auschwitz. (I throw in the latter so more can feel better about themselves. Auschwitz seems more recognizable.) Just last week I had the opportunity to again run this test by a group of about 30 employees.

I now group their responses into one of three categories. The first are the ones that, like many of us, see how few hands go up, and our blood runs backwards. The second are those who just stare blankly, trying to figure out why Lindsay Lohan would care. (Sorry, got a little snarky there.) The third, though, is the important group. The people in the third group are really parts of the first – in other words, they may know about the camps, or they may not. But they separate themselves because they see the broader point. They are not focusing on what people (or they) don’t know. Instead, they recognize there is a gap and want to take personal responsibility to make themselves better. After the meeting last week, one participant and I discussed this for a while. She began to understand that, while gaining knowledge about the business, our profession, etc. was important for her, she needed to broaden her understanding outside our business. Her and I are now working together to give her ideas on where she can learn. Small successes….

During these session I am reminded of two quotes (possibly stolen from t-shirts). The first makes me laugh and cry at the same time. “Make something idiot-proof, and they’ll build a better idiot.” But the second helps me out (a little). “The idiots may outnumber us, but they ARE idiots.” However, it’s those people in group three, the ones who understand the ultimate point, who also understand a quote I use to end the discussions. “If I’m not stupid, I have no right being ignorant.”

Mike

Death Ray
Dear Mr. Ellison,
That's terrific news! Thank you so much. And thanks also for the kind words – the office reverberated to the shoop-thud of jaw-to-floor contact when I alerted the team to your post this morning! (I guess issue one got lost in the mail, annoyingly. Will send another one anon. Although issues 2-4 are a vast improvement.)
So, two things: 1) When would it be OK to call and discuss your (excitingly, intriguingly mysterious) idea? I don't want to bother you at anything other than a convenient moment. And 2) (exposing greenhorn foolishness) Where can I get your number? Shall I send a mail to Mr. Rick Wyatt about it?
Thanks again,
Yr. humble servant,
Jes

Panty-Waists
There is a nice "plug" for the upcoming Aero screening of "DREAMS" on "Ain't It Cool News", who remain wonderfully supportive of the film, and of Harlan.

Embedded there-in, my favorite "Talkback" comment EVER defends Harlan from a sub-literate detractor. I think even Harlan could not top this for sheer creative invective:

"Watch yer mouths, you prissy little punks...
...There's chunks of panty-waists like you in this guy's stool. This guy was going toe-to-toe with uber-ghouls like Spiro Agnew when your daddy was building his first bong in shop class..."

Now, That's Entertainment!!!
Erik

CHRIS THURLOW: Let me put it this way: it's worser than worse now. Much. Much much!

KEITH CRAMER: Behind the Tuilleries. Noon. Sabers. Yo momma.

Yr. Pal, Harlan

Question for HE
I was just reading the fantastic introduction to Strange Wine (Revealed at Last! What Killed the Dinosaurs! And You Don't Look so Terrific Yourself) and you mentioned certain population percentages of book-buyers, illiteracy and boob-tube addiction...frightening stuff. Now, do you think things have improved since you wrote that (literacy rates, television quality, etc.) or gotten worse? I was just wondering what your continued thoughts on the matter are considering how much time has passed since then.

Thanks,
Chris

P.S.
A little over seven years ago, I found myself scrutinizing the amount of time I spent in front of the tube and promptly ripped the cable from the back of the set. I realized that my time would be better spent with friends or family, painting, reading...ANYTHING! And anything is what I have doing ever since.

an anecdote
On January 16th, 2005, my girlfriend Crystal and I went to Costa Rica. You may know that Costa Rica is Spanish for Rich Coast, but what most people do not know is this: most of the country is mountainous, covered with tropical forests and cloud forests, volcanoes and valleys, and there is as much wildlife in a square kilometer as there are humans on the planet. More than 90% of the country is Roman Catholic, and they offer medical coverage to everyone. They do not have a military.

I had wanted to go for years. I travel a lot for business, and every once in a while I’d find a stranger in an airport, or on a plane, who said he’d been there. Even met an older gentleman once who said he married a Costa Rican woman. In my ignorance at the time, I pictured a Mexican woman with many piercings and tattoos, with plates in her lips. Costa Rica was a vast, sleeping, wild country, full of mystery and myth and darkness.

When Crystal said she wanted to go, I immediately said yes, and only became the least bit nervous when thinking about large insects and their proboscii and stingers.

Crystal left for Costa Rica 2 days before me. She had taken off work a few days earlier than I could. Our plan was to meet in the center of the country and go on a series of eco-adventures, including climbing an extinct volcano in a rain forest, white water rafting, and spelunking. Customs was a bitch, but soon I was in a cab and on my way from San Jose to La Fortuna, the town at the foot of the Arenal volcano in the center of the country. The driver knew about two thousand words of English, and I knew about two hundred words in Spanish, so we defaulted to English in our conversation for the four hours we were on the road.

It’s customary when you stop at a local eating establishment in Costa Rica with your driver to buy him food and drink. The first place we stopped was a road-side shack, without electricity, and we got some ades and orts from the family who lived there, and continued on right away. By the time we stopped again 2 hours later, we were about twenty miles from La Fortuna. The restaurant had electricity, though I’m not sure where it came from. It was about 4pm, and the sun was still high in the sky. It had been a beautiful drive, with the newly paved road snaking back and forth among the dense jungle, and plunging infrequently through villages which seemed to be there and then gone in a blink. The restaurant was at the outskirts of one such village, in the mountains.

With the sun filtering through tinted windows, we sat at the bar and had soup and sodas. It was here that I heard the first story of the bleeding slabs, and I was, as you might imagine, quite intrigued. In the pastures leading up to the jungle on the South side of Cerro Chato (the extinct volcano next to Mt. Arenal), there is a large granite slab which was exposed a few years before by a landslide. (Deforestation for farming is probably the largest threat to the rainforests of Costa Rica). Because of mist and the weather (and the almost pathological lack of desire for maps and markings among the culture), it is notoriously hard to find, and some myths have built up about the place. The locals in La Fortuna say the stone slabs display the secret to your life, written in God’s own blood.

Obviously, this is a vast exaggeration, or so I thought. I get the Skeptical Inquirer. I’m not one of PT Barnum’s fools.

Anyway, I put it out of my mind, and we went on our merry way to the Arenal Country Inn, a small luxury place about a 10 minute walk down the road from La Fortuna. Crystal arrived an hour or so later, and we did what re-united lovers do: we walked to town to grab dinner. Over dinner Crystal divulged that she had already made our first reservation with a local tour company, for a hike up Cerro Chato the next morning. The name sparked recognition in me, and I told her about what I’d heard at the restaurant on the way to La Fortuna. She laughed. I laughed.

The next day we were up at 7:30am, breakfasted, and ready at the front desk for our tour guide to pick us up. It turned out that it was only going to be us and the guide on our hike. We drove up to a farm at the base of the mountain and got out. Our driver left the three of us there and told us he’d see us later. Our guide was a stoner-looking guy named Ande who was a native Costa Rican, and he carried a 2 foot long machete. On the hike through the pasture he pointed out and identified leaf-cutter ants, a beautiful fern-like plant which folds up when you brush it with your finger, and various trees, birds, and insects. It was like being in the 4th grade on a nature hike again.

It was a killer, 8 hour hike up the side of a mountain, and back down again. Crystal had neglected to tell me the hike was described in the literature as an “extreme hike.” I had blisters on top of blisters. And then, to make it all suck even worse, it started to rain near the top of the mountain.

The way back was treacherous and slippery. On the way back down, the rain was getting worse, and the mountain seemed covered in a thick grey cloak. Lightening flashed here and there, and the thunder was offset by the booms from the erupting Arenal Volcano next to us.

Toward the end of the jungle, my feet all torn to hell, I fell into a gully and washed down about 8 feet into a shallow mud pool. I looked up and scrabbled for some kind of purchase, and the water was hitting my face, and I saw the stone slab. I briefly glimpsed that which nobody had a map to. On the grey granite face, for a second, I could see twenty or thirty lines of bloody red words, and then I slipped and it was gone. I went tumbling down into the pasture another hundred feet, sliding down through mud, grass, and cow shit, and eventually coming to rest against a large tree.

We couldn’t go back. The weather was terrible, and I had no idea where I had exited the jungle line. I only remember the last line written on the slab, and it was this: Copyright c 2007 by The Kilimanjaro Corporation. All rights reserved, including electronic transmission & retrieval.

A SHOUT OUT TO JES BICKHAM IN THE U.K.

Got the magazines today. Yoicks!

Never got #1 -- or you'd've heard me squeak before this.

Do I like it???

(Quote) What's there NOT to adore about a magazine titled DEATH RAY?!?(Unquote)

Of course I'll do a big interview with you. In fact ...

Call me. I think I have an idea of how we can do a piece that would be (he said, with charming modesty)(compelling self-effacement)(uncommon forelock-tugging) absolutely dead brill, as the late Neil Gaiman used to say to the late Tony Blair, as the late Eleanor Roosevelt listened attentively, sitting as she was, next to the late Jes Bickham. That is to say, it is an idea that is only IMPERIAL in its subterfugenous multiplicity.

You may quote me.

And please thank your mother for the chicken soup.

Yr. Pal, Harlan

Begging The Pardon of Susan Ellison, RE: RABBIT HOLE Newsletter

Mrs Ellison,

Your gracious Husband has advised me that there is a Newsletter I can subscribe too, Allowing me to stay in the know on all things Ellison, the above mentioned RABBIT HOLE.

How does one go about subscribing to said publication, Any & All help would be greatly appreciated, keeping in mind "I come from the land down under"

Kind Regards

Jarod Hitchcock

P.S, Harlan – Many Thanks for your swift & courteous reply

Russia
Hello! great idea of color of this siyte!

REPLY TO BRIAN SIANO

Hmmm.

Hard one, actually.

The sort of "what-if" I have never what-if'd.

Frequently, even back in the day, I would write a story from a strong viewpoint diametrically opposed to mine own. For instance, "Asleep: With Still Hand" and "Strange Wine" and "Knox" and "Battle Without Banners" -- or stories in which I questioned my own beliefs and/or actions, such as "Silent in Gehenna" or "Anywhere But Here, With Anyone But You" or a dozen+ others I won't use to add supercargo to what is, essentially, an empty airplane.

What I wrote then, was where I was at ... then.

Would I rewrite any of them today, knowing what more I know? Hell, Brian, I cannot answer better than the above.

Sometimes, to confound my detractors, I really DON'T have an answer.

Yr. Pal, Harlan

REPLY TO DENNIS

You are, of certainty, free to voice a small, harmless negative vote anent the series title MASTERS OF SCIENCE FICTION.

BUT ... and there is absolutely NO NO NO acid in this reply ...

You can lay the "blame," if any such is due, on the great gray brains at the ABC television network. There WERE other titles proposed, some of which were actually in pre-prod use, every last one of which was far superior to a)the one they went with, or b)your awful suggestion.

The problem with being a voice out in the pasture, out of the loop, and encouraged to voice your every tinkling thought or surmise or bit of contumely, is that in reality, you don't know why, when, how, what-if, who, but what if, and so on. You just figger you're smarter than all of us who worked on the show, all of us dumb and smart, young and old, percipient or blind-hog, professional or newbie. And you speak out ...

Which is O and K, kiddo. But let me tell you the bottom line:
if you want a title that is 100% accurate, MASTERS OF SCIENCE FICTION is dead-on. Heinlein, Howard Fast, John Kessel, Robert Sheckley, Ellison -- true statement: "masters of science fiction." The addition of Stephen Hawking ain't too dusty, neither.

There WERE other titles proposed--including FAR DESTINIES and
DREAMS OF TOMORROW and on and on, lists and lists and lists. But ABC kept clinging to, falling back on, insisting it be called -- and here's where the last battle line was drawn by the Producer, the fine Keith Addis -- MASTERS OF SCI-FI.

THAT IS WHAT IT COULD HAVE BEEN had not all of us threatened ABC with walkout! So, you're entitled to your woolgathering and your assurances that YOU could've done better, blahblahblah, you out in the pasture there, and before I get rude with you, I'll just say that I hope as deeply and as sincerely and as passionately as I can, that you watch the shows, all four of them that survived the ABC guillotine, and that you love them a lot, and that next time you are gulled by this medium, the internet, into believing that your idle supposition is as good as on-the-ground intel, that you are shamed to realize that you and George W. Bush think alike.

Yr. Pal, Harlan
----------------------------------------------------------------
Copyright c 2007 by The Kilimanjaro Corporation. All rights reserved, including electronic transmission & retrieval.
----------------------------------------------------------------

*Thanks, Don Hilliard. The reference, I think, was pretty helpful. I suspect the Aria by Schubert was the piece I was after. I'll have to look for it to confirm it, of course. But on THAT program list, it's the only possibility. I HOPE I can find a recording of ANDERSON'S rendition.

**Brian, not to take this TOO seriously, but I wish you wouldn't couple Spielberg and Ellison in the same musing, as the former is SUCH a sell-out. Having said that, in CE, Dreyfuss doesn't abandon his family so much as the reverse: he was trying to get them to understand his issue; but they blew him off and alienated him. By the time he was on the brink of suicide (the shower scene was cut out of the original version), they drove off and left him to himself. It was his wife who let him down and abandoned his trust. So, your thesis (or the one represented on that show you were watching) misrepresents the issue. I only make that seem important because, as a metaphor, this happens a LOT in relationships. And, like a painful bee sting, it can linger in the victim for a long time.

Beyond that, I'd say your question to Harlan was an interesting one.

***I was watching on dvd the original OUTER LIMITS' THE INVISIBLES, which explored the motif of moral rot proliferating in the wake of power unchecked; as the episode involves politicians and big businesses alike, I couldn't help but see its mirror in Cheney and the Bush Crime Syndicate. Amusing, vexing, and alarming all at the same time.

If there WAS a god ...
http://www.glassgiant.com/hollywood_sign/hollywood_sign.php?t=1186091975&l1=HARLAN+ELLISON&

Masters of Science Fiction
Here is a link to Variety's review of the four wek run of ABC's Masters of Science Fiction: They seemed to like one episode out of four to be broadcast as a stand-out.

http://www.variety.com/review/VE1117934314.html?categoryid=32&cs=1

A question for Harlan and a moment of levity
There's this TV special Richard Schickel recently did about Steven Spielberg. While discussing _Close Encounters_, Spielberg says that he probably wouldn't do that movie these days. At the time, the idea of Roy Neary abandoning his family and leaping off into space was pretty appealing to Spielberg; but now that he's a husband and father himself, Spielberg has very different feelings about the film. That's understandable: he's older, his priorities are different, and I'd say he's a bit wiser in life, too.

Now Harlan, a lot of your work has a pretty strong moral and ethical content to it. But you've been writing for nearly sixty years, and people do grow, change, and reconsider. And while I understand that the stories you write are reflections of how you felt _at the time_ ... are there any stories you've written that you'd approach differently today, if they occurred to you bright'n'fresh right now? Is there a story with a moral point that you have second or third thoughts about?

(I know, the question could be a loaded one. I'm not implying that the stories were _mistakes_, or _ought_ to be changed, and I'm not about to gallivant around with "Aha! He admits that he was _wrong_ about --- back in 1965!" )



And to take the edge off of that question, here's a moment of levity. Today at work, they asked me to take some photos of a piece of lab equipment. This way, a techie could check the photos while fabricating a new part for us.

I took the photos, went back to my desk, and burned the photos to a CDROM. I brought it back, and the techie was impressed. "That's great. Brian. Tell me, do you do weddings or funerals?"

And barely thinking about it, I said, "Nahh. I can't behave myself. At weddings, I always hit on the bride. And at funerals I always hit on the corpse."

I have lots of family in Twin Cities so was worried, until I found out all is well with the brood. Good to see you with us Mark. Minny is going to be a traffic logjam for a long time to come.

Without tragedy where would we be? Sheesh.

-----------

Newbies, come from the ether, we will not hurt you. I even lick on the first date.

----------

Cindy, you invented treacle, but damned if I can't avoid sailing a raft on it. I think your optimism keeps the rest of us from grabbing the sawed off.

REPLY TO JAROD HITCHCOCK

Dear Mr. Hitchcock:

Thank you for the good words.

To answer Question 1: there is considerable work both in the soon-chute, and in-a-moment imminent. One week from now, Tachyon Publishers will reissue SHATTERDAY in a nifty new trade paperback edition. Soon thereafter PS Publishing in the U.K. will reissue a largely annotated (by me) edition of an early book of my stories, ELLISON WONDERLAND. Later this year, or early next (lack of ETA specificity only because these are complex projects that expand, seemingly, on a daily basis) Overlook Connection will publish Tim Richmond's terrific, huuuge
bibliography of my work, under the title FINGERPRINTS ON THE SKY; Joe Stefko's Charnel House will do a gorgeous limited edition, boxed, signed, numbered, that collects--for the first time in one volume--both my books of television criticism, THE GLASS TEAT and THE OTHER GLASS TEAT; IDW Publishers will publish a collection of my musings and chatter from this very site, under the title YR. PAL, HARLAN. Dark Horse has just released the second collected volume of HARLAN ELLISON'S DREAM CORRIDOR and M Press has recently released my favorite edition of my rock novel, SPIDER KISS. There is also the documentary film of my life, DREAMS WITH SHARP TEETH, and all the other books of mine you haven't read. Half a dozen of which are currently available in print and through e.reads online, and others of which--rarer and mostly out of print--can be purchased for a reasonable price in mint condition, and even signed, through the Harlan Ellison Recording Collection (HERC) at PO Box 55548 / Sherman Oaks, California 91413 USA. And this is an excellent place to get most of your queries answered, either in friend&webmaster Rick Wyatt's scrupulous dated site archive, or on-the-moment by the fastidious and always genteel community of Webderlanders.

To keep up, something even I have a hard time doing, I would suggest you get the RABBIT HOLE, the frequent HERC newsletter deftly crafted by my wife, Susan. It's quite inexpensive, usually has special bargain deals on new titles espoused by the publishers, and regularly lists what has just been published ("Abiding with Sturgeon: Mistral in the Bijou," in the magazine INTERZONE) or what is imminent ("For Every Action..." in THE SHADOW #10).

To answer Question 2: the opulent and breath-stopping painting by Jacek Yerka hangs in Susan's and my bedroom. An art-light, when turned on, makes the work glow like iridium. It is one of my great lifetime treasures; and meeting Jacek was an evening not to be forgotten.

On sum, welcome to the dog pound; I think you'll find this a good place to hang out. These are swell folks.

Yr. Pal, Harlan

Point of note: All evidence of any contretemps with Mr. Ellison were removed from the TCJ.com website a few days ago.
_____________________________________

Mark G - Glad to know you're safe and sound. Next time pick a shorter movie, yes???
_____________________________________

Lori - I appreciate the sentiment with which you posted the email. Those messages have taken in many a good hearted soul.

(I'm reminded of the "Magical Music Machine" that "was built with used tractor parts". The video is, to me, a very obvious computer construction -- but it has taken in quite a number of my very savvy friends.)

It's a shame nobody could come up with a more interesting title for the series than the rather pedantic sounding "Masters Of Science Fiction". It took me less than 10 minutes to think of "Realms of Phantasm" as an alternate title, although that might suck too.

Carlin: "I did NOT write that piece of shit!"
Carlin's website includes an embittered rant about some of the viral e-mail essays attributed to him. It's not, in any case, that he disagrees with some of the sentiments expressed. It's that he finds the essays insipid and the writing third-rate; he's better than that. You could get pretty much the same effect by finding one of the more tiresome and cliche-ridden "Bush sucks" rants out there, and distributing it far and wide with an attribution to, let's say, Arianna Huffington.

Lori,

Not to be a persnickety cuss, but what you posted wasn't really written by George Carlin. It's one of those Internet messages which evolves in the sending and is often attributed to various authors. In this case, Carlin, an unknown survivor of the Columbine shooting, and some fellow named Jeff Dickson have been credited with writing it.

The true author is Bob Morehead, former pastor of the Overlake Christian Church in Seattle, Washington. Weirdly enough, he resigned from his post in the late nineties after being accused of sexually assaulting seventeen members of his congregation. Now THAT's paradoxical!

The above information is courtesy of Snopes.com, one of my most favored websites. Just type "George Carlin" in the Search box and you'll find the article.

Longish but well worth it
I got the following in an email from my father this morning. I thought that with all the death going on recently, it may be a nice read. Our estemed host is the only guy who Ranks above Mr. Carlin on my list of people I'd most like to be like.




What a difference a sad event in someone's life makes. GEORGE CARLIN (His wife recently died...)

Isn't it amazing that George Carlin - comedian of the 70's and 80's - could write something so very eloquent...and so very appropriate.

A wonderful Message by George Carlin:

The paradox of our time in history is that we have taller building s but shorter tempers, wider freeways , but narrower viewpoints. We spend more, but have less, we buy more, but enjoy less. We have bigger houses and smaller families, more conveniences, but less time. We have more degrees but less sense, more knowledge, but less judgment, more experts, yet more problems, more medicine, but less wellness.

We drink too much, smoke too much, spend too recklessly, laugh too little, drive too fast, get too angry, stay up too late, get up too tired, read too little, watch TV too much , and pray too seldom.

We have multiplied our possessions, but reduced our values. We talk too much, love too seldom, and hate too often.

We've learned how to make a living, but not a life. We've added years to life not life to years. We've been all the way to the moon and back, but have trouble crossing the street to meet a new neighbor. We conquered outer space but not inner space. We've done larger things, but not better things.

We've cleaned up the air, but polluted the soul. We've conquered the atom, but not our prejudice. We write more, but learn less. We plan more, but accomplish less. We've learned to rush, but not to wait. We build more computers to hold more information, to produce more copies than ever, but we communicate less and less.

These are the times of fast foods and slow digestion, big men and small character, steep profits and shallow relationships. These are the days of two incomes but more divorce, fancier houses, but broken homes. These are days of quick trips, disposable diapers, throwaway morality, one night stands, overweight bodies, and pills that do everything from cheer, to quiet, to kill. It is a time when there is much in the showroom window and nothing in the stockroom. A time when technology can bring this letter to you, and a time when you can choose either to share this insight, or to just hit delete...

Remember; spend some time with your loved ones, because they are not going to be around forever.

Remember, say a kind word to someone who looks up to you in awe, because that little person soon will grow up and leave your side.

Remember, to give a warm hug to the one next to you, because that is the only treasure you can give with your heart and it doesn't cost a cent.

Remember, to say, "I love you" to your partner and your loved ones, but most of all mean it. A kiss and an embrace will mend hurt when it comes from deep inside of you.

Remember to hold hands and cherish the moment for someday that person will not be there again.

Give time to love, give time to speak! And give time to share the precious thoughts in your mind.

AND ALWAYS REMEMBER:

Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away.


George Carlin

Interviews with 8 New Mexico SF Authors
Hello,

Thought y'all would enjoy reading this feature in one of our local
Albuquerque newspapers (Alibi). This week they have interviews with 8
New Mexico science fiction authors and a remembrance of some of the
greats we have lost - Williamson, Saberhagen and Zelazny.

Here is the link to the front page (with SF themed cover art) -
http://www.alibi.com/

And, the link directly to the feature -
http://www.alibi.com/index.php?scn=feature&di=

-Patricia

TV GUIDE blog for MASTERS OF SF
http://community.tvguide.com/blog/TV-Show-Blog/Masters-Science-Fiction/800054129

We'll see how this goes...

TR---

Thanks for the correction. Knowing that rumors run rampant during times of crisis, I made sure I put in "unconfirmed".

Mark - this tragedy has obviously made the headlines over here in the UK.

Horrible to think that we probably went over this bridge whilst we all attended Mini-Con last year...

Glad to hear that you're safe; my thoughts now can only be with those people who have lost their lives as a result of the collapse.

Rob E.

Harlan and Susan,
I received the book and I love it. I was touched that you thought of me when you read the title, Harlan.

Susan, you are as sweet as you sound on the phone...but I knew that already. Mailing and packaging are among the chores I abominate. Your care, trouble and kindness on my behalf are gratefully acknowledged.

God bless you both some more,
hug each other from me.

Love,
Y'all's pal,
Cindy

Harlan mentioned on CNN
"Masters of Science Fiction" and Mr. Ellison got a mention
on CNN.com this morning. I suspect many of you would have
seen it anyways but I thought I would mention it in case
anyone who didn't see it would be interested

http://www.cnn.com/2007/SHOWBIZ/TV/08/02/apontv.scifi.ap/index.html

I got a couple of emails so I thought I would post here that I and everyone I know is OK. Last night I was out at a movie theater to see a sneak preview of the Neil Gaiman film Stardust. Got tickets early and went to a bar for a pint before the film when the bridge collapsed.

Then I did a dumb thing, I went into the movie and did not call my friends and family to let them know I was OK. My only excuse was that I did not realize the extent of the tragedy at the time. When I left the film and checked messages, I had 3 from my Mom, one from my sister, two from friends and a couple of text messages. Dumb, dumb move on my part.

While this is a horrific accident, I am amazed that it was not far worse as this is one of the main arteries into and out of downtown Minneapolis. For those familiar with Philadelphia (my original home city), it would be as if part of the Schuylkill Expressway or I-95 collapsed.

Right now I am just thankful my office does not have any windows, because you can see the collapsed bridge from certain sections of my building.

Thanks to everyone for their concern,

Mark

Rob: The University of Pennsylvania's website has a copy of the program for Ms Anderson's concert. The pieces were:

"America" (medley, no composers listed)
Aria "O Mio Fernando" from _La Favorita_ (Donizetti)
"Ave Maria" (Schubert)
"Gospel Train" (Burleigh)
"Trampin'" (Boatner)
"My Soul is Anchored in the Lord" (Florence Price)

I don't know about Bernstein, but Leopold Stokowski was one of the sponsors of the concert.

Harlan: Condolences on the loss of Tom Snyder. I spent a few years in TV and radio journalism, and Snyder was one of my beaux ideals of the craft; he was one of a small handful of TV newsmen in my lifetime who respected his audience and cared about getting ideas across to them, whether from a newsdesk or a conversation pit. Bad enough for those of us who knew and loved him through his work - how much worse for someone who knew and loved the man himself.

Masters of science fiction
Jeff R. ,
I did know of Harlan's writing credit for this episode. I just didn't know if it was handled well, or another mangling of Mr. Ellison's work. I don't remember details, but heard a review a while back, that indicated some episodes were great, and others, not so much. I hope it's good.

Well, Shit.

I only read about Tom Snyder's passing yesterday after an absence from the internet for a few days.

Damnit.

I hope he was at peace and surrounded by loved ones. I want to send my condolences as well to Harlan and all who were close to him.

And then Bergman, too.

Well, shit.

Glad the Harlan Ellison Prostitute (?!!) situation's cleared up.

What does go on in people's minds?

Chuck

Passings
t seems that director Michaelangelo ("Blowup") Antonioni has passed away as well. I also mourn the loss of Mr. Snyder (this was the first time I had seen Harlan Ellison, after reading his stories) and Mr. Bergman.

I have not been active on this board recently, as I have been in Colorado. My Mother-In-Law, Mildred Guy, a devout Christian, Democrat(to the naysayers, you can be both!), dedicated teacher of 26 years, lifetime member of the NAACP, passed away after a fourth stroke. The funeral was yesterday. Not unlike "Shatterday", the good lady wife and I had her at our house for her last years and it was the beginning of our grieving process, which, as many of us here know is a process and not a temporary diversion.

We were sad, of course, at her passing, but we are thoroughly convinced that she is in Heaven, smiling down and no longer in pain and for this, we are happy.

I have been blessed with an amazing wife, a song Mr. Ellison knows very well (his song is "Susan" and mine is "Rhonda" and I am still working on the string parts, so it sounds REALLY good!), and three mothers, my natural Mother, who passed in 2002 and my Stepmother Joan, who is still alive.

To read about this amazing woman, go here: http://www.legacy.com/gazette/Obituaries.asp and do a search for "Guy" under search options.

Some time ago, a reader of a column of Ellison's took him to task for not championing the rights of ____ (I cannot remember the precise quote or cause). Ellison replied that he had marched for various causes, donated money, been arrested, etc. and he challenged the reader to, "...match MY credits, Ace!". I cannot boast this, nor do I wish to "slap leather", but Ms. Guy, I believe, did match him, in her own way. We had to cut out some of the causes, charities and organizations, to keep the funeral program affordable. In a world where everyone spoke to everyone else, I think all who dwell here would have loved her as we did.

And may all of us do what is necessary, when necessary, so when we pass, we can have the slight hint of a smile that I saw on her face when she died, knowing that we not only showed up for work, but we did our jobs well.

Brian Phillips

No -- that "northbound lane" is not part of I-35. People are ogling the glass tit & commenting upon what they don't unnerstan.

That's a road that's parallel, running from Riverside Avenue, past Grandma's & the edge of campus, then right over to University Avenue. It connects West Bank to the edge of Dinkytown (a couple blocks from Positively Fourth Street, as in, yes, THAT Fourth Street).

Believe me, I've driven that route a literal few thousand times.

To repeat: the ENTIRE WIDTH of the freeway collapsed at the end of rush hour, where traffic was kinda slow-&-go, though some reports are saying "bumper to bumper."

Sorry about the second post. I'll restrain myself to the Fora awhile in penance.

Oh, Josh!
Josh wrote:

"For instance - what I said to M earlier - I wouldn't have posted that if I wasn't prepared to stand by it. If that creepy little coward wants to look me up and confront me with the fact that I said his life is useless and if he ever have kids, they'll be useless, too, he can. If you can't stand behind what you say, don't say it. Pretty simple."

Josh, sweety, if I have a sex change and get that nasty little bacterial thing cleaned up, can I have your love child?

You rock. Seriously. Tell Harlan he has to let you go.

KOS

Links to Minneapolis-St. Paul bridge collapse.

http://www.startribune.com/
http://www.kare11.com/
http://wcco.com/

Southbound is the part that fell. I am on Instant Messaging with a friend west of Minn-St.Paul. He says crews are being taken offsite because the north side appears to be moving. This is unconfirmed, of course.

10:43pm Eastern time.

Hope all Pavilion people are okay.

Excuse me Mr Ellison....
Mr. Ellison,

I wonder if I could trouble you for a moment or two to answer a couple of questions for me.

I am relatively new to your work but must say what I've read so far (Both fiction & Non Fiction) have been some of the most thought provoking and entertaining pieces of literature I’ve ever come across. You strike me as a man grounded by your own principles. Which in today’s world is an all too Rare & Special gift. (Most of us lack the courage of our convictions for you this doesn’t seem to be a problem)

Currently I am in the middle of reading "Again, Dangerous Visions" and find your Introductions a perfect primer for the story's themselves, giving me some wit, wisdom & insight into the authors behind them.
Now Back to My Questions

Is there any new work on the horizon I can look forward to?

Also do you still have the Jacek Yerka painting presented to you on The Tom Snyder show ? (It was a lovely piece and I'd like to think it takes pride of place in your home)

In summing up I’m writing this to try and convey to you what your work has meant to me, I’ve never written a fan letter or posted on the Internet until coming across your Work & Website. I don’t know what if anything that means exactly, but can safely say you are one of the few genuine heroes I’ve ever come across.

Trying Not to Sound Like a Sycophantic Nut

Jarod Hitchcock

At about 6:30 pm (CST) tonight, a big span of four-lane Highway 35-W in Minneapolis collapsed. It's the chunk overflying the Mississippi River between University Avenue & Washington Avenue.

I'm a little twitchy, as my kids are in the Cities (not to mention a couple hundred friends).

Weirdly, the Twins appear to be playing the Metrodome, which would be less than a quarter-mile away, & there's no mention yet.

Best wishes, lit incense, crossed fingers, etc., going out to Goldberg & Ross & any other Webderlanders in the area

"Harlan Ellison prostitute 1958" to GOOD GIRL ART PROSTITUTE 1958."


And, frankly, I know which one *I'D* rather own.



(No 'fense intended)

EXOTIC PROSTITUTES ---- SORT OF

Once again, folks, you've done me a solid.

The e.bay seller got the message and changed "Harlan Ellison prostitute 1958" to GOOD GIRL ART PROSTITUTE 1958.

All is calm once again. Wheew. And thankyeeeeewwwwhew!

Yr. Pal, Harlan

Marian Anderson
This looks like it: Marian Anderson: the Lincoln Memorial Concert Easter Sunday, 1939. http://www.mariananderson.org/site.htm has a contact point. Good Luck!!!

Inquiry Of A Different Color
The internet - at times - can be mercilessly lame in searches.

I once saw a PBS bio about the great contralto, Marian Anderson. They ran a piece of film from her famous 1939 performance in DC, Eleanor Roosevelt's invitation, and both the piece and her voice are one of the greatest things I'd ever heard in all my existence!

I very much WANT a recording - a cd - of that performance, if it's at all available. What I haven't been able to get clear from my search is, simply, the name of the piece and the composer. I think I saw a source credit Leonard Bernstein. WAS that a piece composed by Bernstein (not something that went further back?). Worse, another source referred to the piece as something nauseating like, "White House Sonota". Surely, a composition that profound would have a more aesthetically inclined title.

Anyway...if any of you (Harlan?) could help me with this, I'd really be grateful. A confirmation of the title and composer, and if Anderson's performance is available on cd. Amazon, etc, got kind of confusing and vague on this.

(Believe me, the emotional state I get into at times demands a need for her voice and the moments of ease I know it will bring in those moments. I need it for therapy as much as anything else)

Thanks in advance.

eBay Item

Harlan and Blue Monkeys

So that we do not have a pile-on, I have called and left a polite message at the seller's offices requesting a callback.

Squadron Administrative Assistant to the Second Level Assistant to the Tertiary Secretary Barber

Harlan,

I add my condolences, and a memory:

If not for Tom Snyder, I probably would not have found out about Harlan Ellison. I had heard the name and read "A Boy And His Dog"-- seeking out the text after finding the graphic novel at the Glendale Public Library-- but had never seen the personality behind the words. I didn't know about any of the nonfiction works which have since enlightened and entertained, or any of the devastating short fiction. Somehow, I'd lived two decades with a hurricane registering as a faint pulse on my reading radar.

The interview changed that. I saw your zeal and dedication to your craft. I heard you answer a question from a caller about "Memos From Purgatory". I also heard you talk about fending off a private school from encroaching on the land your property either overlooks for the sake of a tennis court. Or perhaps they were actually trying to get some of YOUR land-- which, in the interview, you mention as a former haunt of Edgar Rice Burroughs. I saw all of this through the medium of television.

And the first time I saw you speak live, in person, I wanted to ask you how you'd fared against the private school, but heard you rail against the evils of television. So I had to pose the question in such a way that I would not admit to having glanced upon the sullied box. So I spoke, stammered, and clutched to a "like"-raft before being called on my resemblance to a Valley Girl. I didn't get too much further. You didn't have any idea what I was talking about. I still couldn't describe an alternative explanation for my question, so I finally just said "You were on Tom Snyder's show about this!"

Your eyes lit with recognition and the anecdote flowed.

So not I had two men to watch out for: Harlan Ellison and Tom Snyder. I watched his last broadcast in hopes of seeing you, and did, in a montage of famous guests.

Despite the perfectly justified brouhaha regarding the copyright of your reading from Mind Fields, it tickled me to see the video of Tom Snyder catching you absolutely STUNNED. My girlfriend Krista couldn't quite believe it-- perhaps because at the Nebulas you told me you'd had her auctioned off to some "swarthy gentlemen" and therefore had no shame-- but our lives are richer for witnessing Mr. Snyder's generosity and your reaction.

FLYING BLUE MONKEY BATTALLION HQ ADVISORY 7741

DAVID LOFTUS, STEVE BARBER, and all the rest of the Battalion not currently on shore leave in Samoa:

The e.bay dealer noted in David's post just below, is not really amusing to me. Would any of you as knows how to waft these electronic waves kindly get to said merchant, and advise him that use of my name in an unauthorized way, to sell something based on recognition of my name, is potential breach of a corporate property, as well as misue of a registered trademark, to wit, "Harlan Ellison." And if he/she wants to keep that e.bay item up, and sell it, he/she will have to reword the slug line HARLAN ELLISON PROSTITUTE 1958.

NOW, they must do it. If you would alert them that if it ain't gone by end of business today--LA time or NYC time--they'll get no more polite requests, they'll hear from one of my devil dogs.

Thank you.

Not amused, Yr. Pal, Harlan

I too want to offer condolences to Harlan on the passing of Tom Snyder. I have fond memories of staying up to watch the Tomorrow Show many, many times when Harlan was a guest. Some people have chemistry; Harlan Ellison and Tom Snyder had a kind of alchemy that I haven't seen on any other TV talk show.

And I remember Tom Snyder's laugh. There was one time in the late '90s, with Dean Koontz as the guest, when a caller asked Mr. Koontz a question along the lines of, since you write scary fiction, you are scared of anything yourself, or do you have any phobias? With perfect deadpan delivery Dean Koontz said something like "I do suffer from Coleman-phobia. That's fear of the child actor Gary Coleman."

Tom Snyder laughed so hard at that I thought he might fall off his chair.

Also ... I hesitate to do this, but I will point out, there is an error in the post from Edmund Boys. Tom Snyder did present the painting to Harlan on the air, but the painting was not a gift from Snyder. The painting was a gift from Harlan's publisher at Morpheus International, James Cowan. I don't want to sound like a know-it-all, or diminish the memory of Tom Snyder in any way. With all the mis-information out there on the Web, I just want to try and keep the record straight here ...

David, I was having a problem accessing the boards earlier also, but it seems to have corrected itself.

In doing some trolling around the web, looking for more details around a possible Gonzales impeachment hearing, I came across this information from TPM MUckraker:

http://www.tpmmuckraker.com/archives/003805.php

The article itself is interesting, but the comments section is even more enlightening. In it, someone who posts anonymously goes into a great level of detail around whether or not this was an NSA or NSC sponsored program, details similarities to Iran-Contra, and describes a novel way in which Verizon (Barber may find this of interest) may figure into this case because of a linkage to the lost RNC emails.

Some in the blogosphere are speculating this could be a Deep Throat, or Deep Modem if you will, because of the level of detail this individual provides and the questions he raises

Forums

Forums are back up. Rick was aware of the problem and has resolved it.

Tom Snyder
Belated condolences on the loss of your friend, Mr. Ellison.

There's a good tribute you may have missed in today's edition of the SF Chronicle. Weblink below, but if you can't find it, it's at sfgate.com, columnists, Tim Goodman, 8/01/07.

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2007/08/01/DD1MRA8FB2.DTL

Darryl

irritant


I'm not having any luck bringing up the Forums. Anybody else have this problem? Have they been disabled? Should we report it to Rick?

In the mean time, there's an item on eBay that's described as "Harlan Ellison Prostitute 1958." Once you see the cover, the description makes sense, but initially it's kind of startling/amusing:

http://cgi.ebay.com/EXOTIC-ADVENTURES-2-Harlan-Ellison-Prostitute-1958_W0QQitemZ320099453216QQihZ011QQcategoryZ280QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Tom Snyder
Dear Harlan,

I would like to add my voice, belatedly, to the chorus of condolences. When I heard the news, like many of the people on the forum, I immediately thought of you and hoped you were comforted by the love and friendship of your immediate circle.

For the rest of you, I once posted how my mind was blown when Mr. Ellison mentioned that he was a friend of Shel Silverstein's. If you're looking for some comic relief from the daily bludgeon, I recommend "Playboy's Silverstein Around the World," just out from Simon & Schuster. Though I aspire each day to Take Life By the Balls, like our host, I also wouldn't mind occasionally tickling it there, like Shel. In fact, my aspiration for today is to Tickle Life By the Balls. I'll let you know how it works out. --Bret

Tom Snyder
I was sorry to hear of Mr Snyder's passing. Although he was virtually unknown in the UK, many of his interviews have crossed the pond in one (unofficial) form or another. I'm told one website is posting some of his radio interviews even as I write this.

The most memorable interview I've seen involved Harlan and the Yerka painting, as mentioned below. Anybody who can leave Mr. E. speechless with a gift deserves our good thoughts!

Paul (the bro) and I send his family, and all who knew him, our condolences.

(On a personal note, I'd also like to post my condolences for Roderick Jones, a fine fellow community actor (he played Toby Belch to my Andrew Aguecheek some ten years ago), who sadly passed away last week following long-standing complications from Legionnaire's Disease. Your tread will be missed on our boards, sir.)

regards
Rob E.

This Sunday I called my dad to wish him a happy 73rd birthday. My mother replied that he couldn’t come to the phone because he was working on the gate. They own a nice piece of pine-covered land in Eastern Arizona, so it wasn’t just a yell out the window that I was on the phone. And this isn’t just a garden gate; this is large, old, wood gate on their main road. I called back later and told him I wasn’t sure that fixing gates was the way to spend a birthday. After explaining that it was a 15 minute job that wound up taking two hours (and knowing my dad, he was exaggerating its simplicity) he went on to say, “I’m just glad the good Lord has seen fit to make me able to keep on doing this at 73.”

Passings should also remind us of who is still with us. And, Harlan, since you are one of those either heading towards or just having left the gates of 73, I’d like to add that I’m glad the good Lord has seen fit to make you able to keep on doing what you do.

(My apologies if this all seems a bit maudlin – but it’s been the kind of week…)

Mike

THIS BRAIN HAS PLANS OF ITS OWN
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20061907/

PARIS' BRAIN (2007)

Plot Summary: Yet another version of Curt Siodmak's novel about an honest but misguided scientologist (played by Tom Cruise) who keeps the brain of a clueless, uh I mean ruthless, dead billionaire alive in a tank. Paris manages to impose her powerful will on Cruise, and uses him to murder her enemies or at least scratch their eyes out.

‘Paris came in and owned it,’ says director Darren Lynn Bousman

The scenes where Tom takes on the physical mannerisms of Paris to act out her vengeance have already started Oscar talk.

Josh is going to hate himself for passing on this one...

What If The Beatles Were Irish?
If you need to be cheered up (and who among us does not?) check out www.royzimmerman.com. The above question is humorously answered, and such songs as "Dick Cheney" and "Ted Haggard Is Completely Heterosexual" gave me more than a few laughs.

It's funny because it's true.

Blame the wire service!
Daily Variety? Snyder's obit is the exact same in the San Jose Mercury News (where it is buried in the second section due to the same-day (roughly) death of former 49ers coach Bill Walsh, who led the team to three Superbowl victories in the 1980s). Anyway, the byline is Jason Dearen, Associated Press. Does Mr Dearen work for Daily Variety?

At least he gets more than a couple column inches. This being the San Francisco /San Jose area, however, Walsh got several pages in the front section not even counting the special pull-out tribute and the lead editorial. All people care about is football. Well, the 49ers actually *won* games back in Walsh's day...

Funny - Mr Walsh and Mr Snyder died of the same cause - leukemia - and at around the same age (early 70s).

Oh, and did anyone notice Ingmar Bergman also passed away, at the age of 89?

Kristin

P.S. On a lighter note: Susan, you scared me into placing my order for ON THE ROAD Vol 3 with Deep Shag. (It is actually the three disc boxed set they have low stock of.) Well, it arrived yesterday and I had it in my CD player five minutes (oh, maybe ten - peeling the packaging off is a pain) later! Wow, some of the recordings are from Baycon! Ah, now I have it straight... those idiot fan gossips are off base ...they were saying things like "HE didn't get invited back to the 10th anniversary Baycon" when in fact the anniversary con (featuring past guests) was in 1992, the year BEFORE Harlan was there! I wish I could have jumped on them at the time, but I get years mixed up too...well anyway, the anecdotes on the album are priceless as usual.

P.P.S. NICE essay on visiting your parents' graves. Er. nineteen Centigrade in Ohio? Wasn't it Fahrenheit? Nineteen C would be more like a California winter. Well, my own aging parents complain about California winters too so maybe there's a point when you can't tell the difference?

After reading the anecdote Harlan generously shared with us concerning Tom Snyder's rereading of "Jeffty is Five", it occurred to me that that's one of the (relatively) few stories that makes me cry despite the fact that I've always been something of a crybaby. (I'm ashamed to say that it isn't in my library at the moment. I've lost so many beloved books to moving mishaps, lending to unreliable friends and the like, but rest assured I will replace it.)

"Shatterday" also got me as did "Strange Wine" and I know if I weren't so worn out after a long day, I could think of a few others by Harlan because I'm pretty sure he has my other favorites beat in this department.

"One Hundred Years of Solitude" made me cry (and gasp) as did a couple of other Garcia Marquez stories. So did Rushdie's "The Satanic Verses". The last beautifully remorseful pages of "Lolita" got me as well. And again I know there are others, but relatively few considering how much I read.

I'd like to hear from anyone who'd like to tell, what writers, what stories make you cry. Out loud like. Not tear up, but really blubber in that I-hope-no-one-ever-sees-me-like-this-never-ever-sort of way.

My condolences for the loss of your friend. Saying goodbye is never easy, but it is my sincerest hope that, in all other regards, you are healthy, happy and well.

Now to speak of happier things, I think you are a fantastic writer. Amazing talent and craftsmanship. As I read Web of the City I couldn’t help but think that in a perfect world, middle-schoolers would be reading this instead of The Outsiders (not to mention, if it were done right and faithfully, it would make a damn good film). I have been working my way through The Essential Ellison and loving every page. When I first discovered your work (I picked up the Voice from the Edge CD sets in a truck stop in the middle of nowhere on a lengthy road-trip…brilliant listening for midnight driving) I was hooked. When I couldn’t find your books in any of the three bookstores we have in town, a coworker kindly donated Alone Against Tomorrow to my hungry eyes and bookshelf.

As a painter, I find your work to be very inspirational. I spread the word of Ellison to anyone who will listen and quickly correct those who carelessly call you a “Sci-fi” writer. Speaking of, I was very surprised when I went to Barnes & Noble to buy Spider Kiss and found it in the “Sci-fi/Horror” section rather than the “Fiction” section, and yet Clive Barker is in “Fiction” and not “Sci-fi/Horror”…go figure! Anyway, I enjoy your work immensely and want to thank you for your visionary words and the hours of enjoyment they give me and countless others.

Irascible
Yeah, well, as Harlan probably knows well, DAILY VARIETY doesn't always get its facts straight.
Though I'm of the opinion that an incorrect mention is better than none...

Mr. Coleman

Irascible? Hell yes....

I'm more interested in the fact that of all the places Variety would have the nerve to call our host a Science Fiction writer.

How many years does the poor man have to make it known NOT to call him that before people start respecting his wishes?

Tom Snyder obit -- with Harlan mention
Hi everyone --
I'm new to posting here but I frequently check in and enjoy the conversations immensely.
Today's DAILY VARIETY has a lengthy obit on Tom Snyder with the line "... he was more likely to joust with guests such as the irascible science fiction writer Harlan Ellison."
Irascible??????

reply
Susan- received package and envelope. anytime,anyway i can be of service i'm here for you both. jz

My God Harlan, what a man Tom Snyder was. He could always get that sweetness out of you in those interviews. He could find the light on the windowsill and teach it to dance. He may be on that magic carpet, but below him there are many sad faces.

Masters of Science Fiction
Dennis: Yes, the ABC series has been mentioned here a few times. You may or may not know the fourth and final entry in the teevee run (Aug. 25) adapts Harlan's "The Discarded." There were 6 episodes produced; the other two will be on a DVD set.

I just noticed that "Masters of Science Fiction" premieres Saturday on ABC. I'm new around here, so I'm not sure if this a good or bad thing. That's the way I'm approaching this series, TV has a checkered past bringing Science Fiction to the idiot box, so I'll prepare for the worst, and watch with a critical eye.

The Hwd Reporter....
....does a nice on-line piece on Tom Snyder -- with an even nicer shout out to Our Lord and Master -- and this site!

http://www.pastdeadline.com/2007/07/firing-up-a-col.html

Best,
Erik

"Mystery"

"Broadcaster"

(It was the EQUAL. I know it was the EQUAL.)

Local Tribute to Snyder

Yesterday afternoon, local radio show host Marc Germain ("Mr. K", KTLK 1150) had as his guest reporter/author Kelly Lange. Many of you might know her better as the author of msyery novels, but here locally she is better known as a boradcaster, and she co-anchored KNBC's nightly newscast with Snyder back in the '70s.

The first hour of Germain's show was spent reminiscing with Lange about Snyder (the two had remained close friends after Snyder left the newscast), and asking for call-ins from the public about their own memories.

It is clear he touched so very many of us, all in different ways. KTLK/Marc Germain put together a very fitting tribute.
________________________________________

Lighthearted aside to SUSAN.

I have developed an almost phobic fear of EQUAL in my coffee. Thank you for that. I thought you ought to know.

I just heard the sad news of Tom Snyder's passing. Back in his CNBC days, I watched his wonderful call-in show regularly. I especially treasured the interviews he did with Harlan. They were a rare instance of genuine friendship and cameraderie in front of a TV camera. For me, the most memorable was when Harlan appeared to promote "Mind Fields", his collaboration with painter Jacek Yerka. Towards the end of the conversation, Tom asked Harlan which painting was his favorite and then, whether he would like to have it. Harlan averred that, of course, he would, but couldn't dream of affording it. Tom then presented the painting to Harlan, as his gift. Harlan was floored and, momentarily, speechless at such a generous gesture. It was a very special moment I felt privileged to have witnessed.

Harlan, remember what else Tom said about Jeffty, on the air? Something like, "He's not really dead, you know. He's still alive. He lives." Right then and there I knew that the story meant as much to him as it did, and still does, to me and to who knows how many others.

I always like to remember that moment.

Just heard that Michelangelo Antonioni has passed away. Two giants of cinema gone within the same 24 hour period.

WHen I heard about the passing of Mr. Snyder, it just brought to focus how low the state of the television interviewing has become. Now instead of interviewing people who can put sentences together, television wants to talk to people about THEIR problems with drinking and driving and how life is not fair when you are a celebrity (why and how they have reached this status- I still do not get).

Sorry about the complaining. It is early and I have a day of listening to entertainiment reports about L. Lohan.

Harlan:

Just saw the news about Tom Snyder. My heartfelt condolences, sir. The first time I ever saw you was during the inteview following your heart bypass work. The rapport the two of you presented went far beyond the talk show static model--you guys were pals havin' a good natter and let us all listen in.

Take care, sir.

Hi Harlan,

Sorry to hear about the passing away of Tom Snyder. Steve Austin sent me a collection of your appearences on the show years ago and Tom struck me as a genuine nice guy. We need more people like that in the world. My condolences to you and his family.

Best.

Faisal A. Qureshi

Damn.
Just popped in and found out about Tom Snyder's passing. Damn. Damn. Damn. I loved his voice, and his style on those rare times when the lizard brains at the networks would blink long enough for some bright guy/gal to seize the chance and wedge in a few precious minutes of intelligence among all the vast wasteland that passes for entertainment, decade after long decade.

Now I have one less thing to hope for.

Damn.

I'm as sorry as hell for you; I know from reading your work over the years that you not only had a high regard for Mr. Snyder, but you were close to him. All I have are memories of his familiar, comfortable presence onscreen; you have the real thing to remember, and that's gonna hurt for a helluva long time.

Sorry as hell, and hope like hell it's a long time until you have to read an obituary of another friend.

Tad

Oh Harlan,
I am so sorry about your friend.
Love,
Cindy

Harlan,

I posted my comments about Snyder on the board, but most certainly wanted to convey my OWN condolences directly as well.

I saw you guys together on the show a bunch of times while I was growin' up. One thing that always struck me about Tom is that his eyes consistently projected a harmony of intelligence, kindness, and sensitivity; I mean ALWAYS, in every glance, regardless of the emotion in any particular moment, and never one of these traits without the other. He had a blunt interviewing style - giving him an air of candor I liked a lot - yet, he was a comforter in the shape of a human being.

In short, he always struck me as a damn nice guy.

(I still remember the one you guys did when Reagan was elected. Tom had admitted that he gave Reagan his vote, and you - as I sure as hell would have - went, "DID you? Don't touch me. Don't touch me." He laughed like hell, just as he did when you entertained him - along with us, God help me! - with your rendering of Morricone's theme from Good, Bad Und das Ugly)

The news this am caught me thoroughly off guard. 71, these days , is NOT that old (even though - as I went on about earlier - I can't believe to this day what happened to John Ritter; it's these congenital things that take some us early that freak ME out), and I'd always hoped Tom would pop up on tv again. (In fact, there was a time when I kept wondering why he wasn't even making appearances in places like Politically Incorrect; places I felt his input would have been very effective) I didn't know about his leukemia.

In closing, Harlan, I have to say I'm really, REALLY glad you have your wife so close to you; I imagine it helps you cope with these awful moments. Because we know how many friends you've been losing this way. I'm glad you have Susan. She's very clearly the most valuable asset you have - worth every pain you'd experienced in the long wait before meeting her.

...and I'm glad you and Tom had those times together.

Harlan, sympathy on the passing of Tom Snyder. I regularly watched Tomorrow back when I was 13-15 or so, and I think its key point was that unlike most every other talk show, I felt I actually learned something from Snyder's interviews of the varied folk who appeared as guests, instead of just hearing prepared anecdotes (which can be fun, but tend to be shallow in the depth department).

Re: "How do y'all like your beloved internet NOW? The smartest and wittiest of you is now EQUAL to the nastiest, snottiest, most ignorant, most prejudiced, least worthy of you."

One of these days I need to get around to writing up an essay on the history of the Internet and how its users went from possibly having the highest average intelligence of any communication medium to a regression to the mean or, in several cases, below same. For what became the Internet's first decade, access was limited to folk at significant Computer Science research centers, whether academic, commercial, or governmental...and these folk were sharp. But each time access to the Internet opened up to a greater degree, its average intelligence dropped. Hell, I'm part of that first "not quite up to the original class across the board" wave myself.

Just ran across this piece about Tom Snyder that also mentions Harlan: http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D8QN1E680&show_article=1

Apologies if someone else already linked to it.

Mr. Ellison,

I am sorry to hear about your loss. May the pain of such passing ease, leaving the best of memories behind.


Sandra

My condolences as well to our host for the loss of his friend Mr. Tom Snyder.

He was one of a kind, and we are not only much richer for having had him among us, but far, far poorer for having lost him. May he rest in peace.

Tom Snyder Remembered
One of my earliest remembrances of Tom Snyder and Harlan was in an interview prior to Harlan's appearance as the Guest of Honor at IguanaCon II, held in Phoenix 30 August – 4 September 1978.
The chemistry between them was apparent at the beginning.
From that time on, I tried to catch Snyder's show whenever I could (I even set up a vcr at my mother's home because her cable service got CNBC when mine didn't), but I moved Heaven and Earth to watch these two friends have a conversation.

Snyder will be missed by many.

Brief history of the Tomorrow Show:
http://www.oldtvtickets.com/archives1/2006/04/tomorrow.html

Mark Evanier on Tom Snyder:
http://www.newsfromme.com/archives/2007_07_30.html#013777

One more nice Tom Snyder memory
I posted soemthing about how much I enjkoyed the _Tomorrow_ show over on my blog, but this one just occurred to me.

One time in the 1970s, Snyder did a special show on mystery writers. His guests were two people I'd heard of, one I hadn't, and another whose name I did not know but whose work appealed to me. The ones I'd heard of were Mickey Spillane and Robert Bloch. The one I didn't know was Dilys Winn, who ran the mystery bookstore Murder Ink. The fourth guy was introduced as "the king of the caper," and when Snyder said that he'd written _The Hot Rock_-- and I loved the movie-- I made a note to remember this guy's name. Donald E. Westlake.

So while I probably would have found Westlake on my own later on, Tom Snyder helped me find him that much sooner.

Main thing I remember was an exchange between Bloch and Spillane about violence in their books. Spillane was, as you can guess, Mickey Spillane: rough, tough, and colorful as hell. Bloch sat back regally, and I _think_ he used a cigarette holder, which reminded me of the Penguin. Spillane said that once, he'd described a bullet hole looking like a period, but the curl of blood made it look like a comma.

And with lightning-like speed that _still_ takes my breath away, Bloch replied, amiably, "If you blew his stomach away you'd have a semi-colon."

Tom Snyder
Harlan, condolences on the loss of your friend.

I'm a little too young to have seen Snyder on first air. I've seen some taped segments, including one of yours. And I knew his name through mentions in your writing. If you can take any kind of consolation or pride in the fact that your writing is a tool through which Tom's name was made known to one of the next generation, please do.

Again, condolences, and thank you for sharing the anecdote about Snyder's intelligence and commitment to his profession.

Jason

Harlan,

I'm sorry for your loss. You two were great together.

TOM

Thank you. All of you. Each of you.

Susan woke me with the news this morning.

It's eight hours later, and I think I should say something to you. And this is it:

There was this one time, I'm pretty sure it was 1980, and I was in New York to promote the publication of SHATTERDAY, and I was in the makeup chair in preparation for going on-camera, and I was under a sheet so no pancake would get on my shirt collar, and all at once the makeup lady stepped aside, behind me, and I was looking in the wall-to-wall mirror, looking at myself in the chair, and suddenly there was Tom, standing behind me. (It was, and still is, the practice of most tv talk show hosts not to pre-greet the guests of the evening with anything more than a perfunctory hello and I'll see you in a minute; they just don't mingle much, I suppose on the show-biz theory "Don't leave your best stuff in the Green Room.") Seeing him there behind me was startling. He laid his hands on my shoulders, and I saw tears in his eyes. He was crying. "Geezus, Tom, what the hell's wrong? Something happen?"

He said, "I just re-read 'Jeffty is Five,' and every time it just wipes me out," and he leaned down and kissed the top of my head; and he left the room, and when we did the show he was my old friend again.

In all the years I've been doing television, radio, DVD extras, and internet interviews, from Larry King to Merv Griffin to Joe Pyne and all John Nebels, Jessica Savitches and Studs Terkels in-between, the ONLY interviewer who ever read the book of the interviewee--not the stooge-supplied precis--or the publisher blurb packet--but the BOOK, and usually ALL of the book ... was

Tom Snyder.

What he said to me was, he had "re-read" Jeffty. Not JUST read it, but had re-read it from its magazine publication.

Thank you again. But oh how I miss him.

-Harlan

I've always had happy memories of watching Tom Snyder. I'm old enough to know the simple pleasure of staying up late on school nights and enjoying the way TS spoke right through that camera to the viewers, those great big fingers pointing right at us.

There were in-jokes, running comments, knowing asides -- all of the things that made one feel like one of the gang and that rewarded repeated viewing. He didn't let his show become pigeon-holed; he was funny or serious when he wanted to be. Guests didn't have to be celebrities. He truly seemed to be able to interview anyone without losing his own persona.

I remember hunting for AM stations that carried his radio show, and then catching up with him when he started his CNBC program (frequently featuring the disembodied head of Janice Lieberman). And I went through videotape like it was tap water when he went to CBS to follow Letterman.

It was obvious that he saw broadcasting as his calling, and that he loved it.

So I think this weekend, I'm going to root around in the video vault, drag out a tape ot two, hope the damn things still work,fire up a colortini, and watch the pictures, even if they don't fly through the air.

I hope knew how many fans he had. Thanks, Tom.

Vale - Tom Snyder & Ingmar Bergman
Mr Ellison

I to join the chorus in offering my sympathy to you on the loss of Tom Snyder, Anyone who has seen your conversations with him could tell that there was a genuine rapport between the two of you & that you clearly enjoyed each other company, which as a viewer made them a joy to watch.

I wonder if you would be so kind, when you feel the time is right regale us all with a view tales of you time with Tom Snyder.

So let us all drink a quiet ale to the memory of Tom Snyder (probably the most intelligent broadcaster of the last 30 years) & Ingmar Bergman (one of the truce genius of cinema)

With Respect & Sympathy
Jarod Hitchcock

Tom Snyder R.I.P...
Heard it on this morning's radio news (it was after presstime at the newspaper apparently.) I'm sorry, Harlan - I immediately thought of you, although I'm a little too young to have stayed up that late when you were on Snyder's original show!


Kristin

First off my condolences on the loss of your friend. I hope it is not out of place to answer your previous questions at this time.

I don't know much about Idaho as I've only lived here a year. I am a day trip away from Yellowstone National Park and Grand Teton National Park as well as fantastic camping in central Idaho. It's warm in the summer, cold in the winter, and they like their Lewis & Clark up here. It is fiercely conservative and I find myself butting heads with the locals more often than not, but I find myself butting heads with the locals wherever I may be.

As for how I make my living: no, it's not prying. I am fortunate enough to be able to do something I like which is working at the local library. Someday, however, I might use the degree I worked for which is Mining Engineering (preferably in the field of mine reclamation and related waters cleanup). For now though I like not working myself to pieces as an engineer and will happily spend my days with the books.

Tom Snyder
I was very saddened when I read the news. The segment that's on YouTube and had been the source of so much chit-chat this weekend was what turned me on to Harlan's writing back when it first aired. I wasn't even 20 yet. I've missed Mr. Snyder's show (and his guests) since it went off the air.

My condolences go out to you, Harlan.

Yrs,
Bill

t.snyder
those of us who are of an age remember Tom at the old eyewitness news and the talk show he had. it's not just a remark on his height to say he was a giant. once there was a place called the night where names like shepherd, nebel and hodel lived to take us by the hand and lead us to wonderful places. one by one ,they left and no one thought to keep the door open. and now Tom is gone. once there was the night and now there's only the dark.

Condolences
At times like this words escape me.

May the many pleasant moments the two of you shared bouy you through the tough times ahead.

BTW, while I'm thinking about it, can any one tell me why Mr Snyder died in San Francisco, I always thought he was a NYC guy?

Lori

Tom Snyder
My sincerest condolences on the loss of your long time friend. I know how much you enjoyed each other (and how much I enjoyed watching).

Tom Snyder, R. I. P.
Oh, God. I remember watching you, Harlan, on TOMORROW back in the 1970s, with the sound turned down so as not to wake up my grandparents, who would have made me shut the show off with "You've got to go to school tomorrow!" I loved your appearances on Mr. Snyder's show back then, and, later, in the 1990s,when I never knew when you might be popping up, since TV GUIDE no longer listed the guests each night. The fondness, the warmth, the two of you had for each other was palpable. You two were responsible for some of the best television of my life, and I share your feelings of sadness and loss.

Tom Snyder
.
I feel as if I've lost a Dear Uncle.
.
From Mark Evanier:

http://www.newsfromme.com/archives/2007_07_30.html#013777
.

sorry. "than" = "that"

My condolences to the passing of Tom Snyder. I used to love watching Harlan's appearances on the Late Late Show. As others have noted, there was a genuine friendship between Harlan and Tom than one could see on the screen.


The Seventh Seal is the only Ingmar Bergman film I've seen, but it's a true jewel. It is a sad day.

-John

Why isn't there any Library of America edition of the collected works of Ambrose Bierce? They put out a collection of H.P Lovecraft stories but no Bierce? That's strange.

Harlan,
My condolences on the loss of your friend Tom Snyder. His interviews with you were a joy to watch. What a great guy.

Alas for losing Bergman-what a magnificent body of work he left behind.

Tom Snyder
I read recently the passing of Tom Snyder and immediately came over here. Unfortunately I never watched any of his interviews during the time that they were broadcast.

Although, I have to say, this has to be one of those strange cooincidences of fate: I came across some Snyder interviews with Harlan Ellison early this month on, yes, YouTube: although I don't think it was the same clips that have become notorious here -- this was a 1976 show concerning Star Trek with Harlan only in the latter half and he did no readings -- in any case because of those videos I recognized the name, came here and lo and behold, apparently the days prior to his death he was at least associated with the topic of much discussion.

In any case, if any of you haven't seen these videos, I at least think they're worth watching -- Mr. Ellison's reading aside of course (which depending on the year may have been broadcast prior to the VHS market let alone the internet, as he noted) -- you might want to go have a glance. I had to laugh at one point where DeForest Kelley freely admits he's starting to get tired of the whole fan convention situation... this in 1976!

My condolences to the friends, family and fans of Tom Snyder.
I count myself as one of the latter. I was privileged to view all the variations of his show, and was informed and entertained.
Great guests, and ones you wouldn't see elsewhere on the idiot box.
Truly a great loss.

I'm ignorant of Bergman's work, sad to say. (I know of it, I know the famous scenes, but I've never watched any of his movies.) But Tom Snyder's passing is, well, pretty damn sad. I used to love staying up late on school nights because anyone Snyder had on his show was going to be _far_ more interesting and enlightening than anything I'd be sleeping through the next day. A show where the guest could be Meat Loaf or Buckminster Fuller, John Lennon or Ayn Rand, special effects men like Douglas Trumbull and Linwood Dunn, an hour-long chat with Ray Bradbury...

One reason I didn't watch Letterman for years was because I knew what his show had replaced.

Death has a way of jogging our memories.

When I heard of the passing of Tom Snyder, I immediately recalled his interviews with Harlan, which were among the most amusing and enlightening I've ever seen; also, his interview with John Lennon, which has to number among one of the better the latter ever gave; and yes, the parody of Snyder by Dan Ackroyd, which was funny without being meanspirited. Snyder not only had the ability to make us laugh, but to laugh at himself. He'll be missed.

My condolences, Harlan.

The first Ingmar Bergman film I ever saw was THE SEVENTH SEAL. Both bleak and hopeful, it made a lasting impression on me. Bergman finally lost his chess game with the Grim Reaper, but, as is the case with all great artists, he achieved a share of immortality with his art. And that is no small thing.

Tom Snyder
Back in December 1997, I was working on a convention called Mad Media 5, set to run in summer 1998. We had extended an invitation to Harlan to be our GOH, but had not heard anything. A few days before Christmas, I received a very unexpected phone call; Harlan calling to find out what Mad Media 5 was and to decide if he would come on out for it. It was the first time that I had ever spoken with Harlan at any length; he had me laughing, he told me all about the CBLDF (of which I have remained a card-carrying member since), he asked solid questions about the con, and we had a tentative agreement in place before the phone had been hung up. Added to that, he called up another one of our invitees and convinced him to come as well, which was confirmed by telephone before the evening was done. It had been a very good day.

The above is a lengthy preamble to what is really a remembrance of Tom Snyder. Because later that very evening, as I settled in to watch Tom Snyder (as I often did), who should be sitting across from him but Harlan Ellison. I quickly popped the VCR on and taped the show (still have it), which was terrific.

I loved watching Tom Snyder. Unlike so many of the talk show hosts, he never seemed as if he was looking for the next punchline (cough **Leno** cough), he was just looking to have a good conversation. There was no studio audience to mug for, so he engaged with his guests and the callers. He never took cheap shots, and he always seemed genuinely interested in what his guests had to say. I loved the fact that Harlan was one of his regular guests, and that so many of his guests weren't the flavor-of-the-month, they were just interesting people. I haven't watched much of the late night talk shows since he left the airwaves. He will be missed.

Harlan, I know he was a friend of yours; please accept my condolences on your loss.

Jon C. Manzo

I find it funny that Dennis seems to think $$ are related to worth. Poe died broke, Jefferson died in hock and there are hundreds of other examples." F911" was supressed and opened to less than 200 screens nationwide, I would imagine "Sicko" got the same fate. Paris Hilton is worth millions, but up close you can hear the slight whistle as the breeze blows through her ears. And there are hundreds of examples like that. Dollars do not relate to worth.

And as a segue I am sorry to hear about Tom Snyder's passing. Though he was put on NBC's back porch as far as scheduling it was a treat to catch him in action and well worth the sleep lost in the process. "Fire up a colortini, sit back, relax, and watch the pictures, now, as they fly through the air." You fought the good fight!

Tom Snyder
My condolences also.

Your appearances on Snyder's shows are priceless, every one of them. I certainly didn't always agree with some of the things Tom Snyder said or laugh at some of the jokes he made, but he was always a delight to watch for many reasons -- most of all because he's one of the few television interviewers I can recall who came across as genuine and just downright human as opposed to a mannequin, a talking head or a multi-media cyborg composed largely of glass and silicon chips.

I'm sorry he's gone.

Tom Snyder (1936-2007)
Harlan, please allow me to add my condolences. One need only have seen any of your many apperances with Tom Snyder to recognize your love and friendship for the man.

Many years ago (1980ish) in Salt Lake City, when you appeared at the Utah/US Film & Video Festival (which morphed into what we now know as Sundance), I happened to be within earshot when you were approached by a young man with long hair who commented on one of your TOMORROW SHOW appearances. "Man," he said, "you really put Tom Snyder in his place!" You looked at him incredulously, but politely informed him: "Tom's okay. Tom's a good guy. Tom's my friend."

That's what leapt to mind this morning when my wife called with the bad news: that Tom Snyder always came across as a good guy and a friend.

My thoughts are with you.

(I've posted more about TS at my blog: http://chidder.livejournal.com/35064.html)

Now that Slicko Moore's Sicko has tanked at the box office(21 mill as of the week-end)perhaps he should have tried to generate some controversy by naming the documentary "Medicine for Melancholy" instead without asking you know who first!

Tom Synder
Mr. Ellison,

Condolences on the loss of your friend.

debbie

HARLAN - I sincerely hope you were notified of this before coming to the Pavilion, and that this is not the first word you're getting.

Our most sincere condolences.

Cris and Steve

RE: Tom Snyder passing
One of the best hours of my life was spent back in 1995/96 when you appeared on Tom's show - right around the time Dream Corridor was being published by Dark Horse. Rarely have I ever seen two people enjoy each others' company the way you two did.

Harlan, I am truly sorry for your loss.

On the loss of Tom Snyder
Simply want to add my condolences to the list. Sorry, Harlan...pity how certain faces are only recalled by minor storms not of their making...

Two Greats
We have lost two greats, last twenty-four hours; I am sorry that I need to report to Harlan (if he doesn't know) that one of the two is a good friend.

Ingmar Bergman, 89; Tom Snyder, 71.

My condolences, Harlan.

Snyder and Bergman
This is just too much today.

In Defense of the Internet
HARLAN: I make no excuse and offer no defense for the yipyops hitting you with their little tautologies and apagogical arguments.

But there is much to be said for the Internet as a whole--yes; even including the furries, the thieves, the Nigerian e-mail scams, and the Freepers.

Because of the Internet, I can add to my library of music via my subscription to Napster, and ensure that the artists are getting paid for my downloading.

Because of the Internet, I have made the acquaintance of Messrs. Siano, Smith, and others on this board--and those acquaintanceships have become treasured friendships.
Even more, because of the internet, I am able to claim friendship with the great lady who writes under the name Alma Alexander--such friendship beginning when we were almost 9,000 miles away; a friendship which began on a newsgroup, moving through e-mails, internet chats, phone calls, letters, and which didn't actually culminate in a physical meeting until three or four years in. (It should be pointed out that Ms. "Alexander", now living in America, also met her husband through the same newsgroup.)

Because of the Internet, I am introduced on a regular basis to authors whose work I never would have found in my local bookstores, libraries, or friends' bookshelves.

Because of the Internet, I was able to sell my first published essay (the editor, you may be tickled to know, was Paul T. Riddell, he of the Green Lantern ring).

Because of the Internet, I am able to keep regular contact with my sister living in Europe, without worrying about proper postage or telephone bills.

Because of the Internet, I am able to do research for both my writing and for my work which would take me months hunting through various libraries in a day.

Because of the internet, I am able to trade bon mots with creators such as Peter David, James A. Owen, Mary Gentle, Kage Baker, Charles Stross, John Scalzi, Laura Martin, and many more--including this fella out in Sherman oaks you may have heard of. Even when a creator is not able or willing to engage in regular discourse with his or her adherents, I can still dash off a note--which, in many cases, is read and appreciated by the creator. (I am much comforted by the fact that Julie Schwartz was given a copy of a review of his autobiography which I had sold before he passed.)

And, in the final estimation ... the Internet has gotten me laid.

So, y'know, it ain't all bad. Even if the most extreme iteration of Sturgeon's Law is applied, that five or ten percent of utter good makes up for all the dreck out there.


(I wrote a long diatribe against those railing against the depredations of The Man, but erased it; though "to live is to war with trolls," we sometimes just have to walk past the bridge without comment, smacking them down only when they rear up their ugly heads to bite us.)

Well if there's anything the Youtube fiasco has taught us, it's that then or now, The Man rocks a good red shirt.

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a110/lonegungal/Miscellaneous/Photo-0010.jpg

MIZ JESSI , MA'AM

AN AFTERTHOUGHT. Just pure curiosity. No sub rosa. No undercurrent.

Idaho is one of the few states I don't know intimately. What's it like in your corner? And if I'm not prying, how do you make your living?

Purely just wonderin', Yr. Pal, Harlan

REPLY TO JESSI LEE

Miz Jessi, Ma'am:

You need never be afraid to ask me a direct question. I always answer as best I can. Such as:

Don't go beyond the parameters of my comment. No slur was being cast against ANY self-employed person. Quite the opposite. I consider having given up the security of a regular paycheck for a living-wage life lived on the edge, the best opt I ever opted for. It takes courage to want to be your own boss, to bear total responsibility for your life. But, as the great wit S.J. Perelman said: "The muse is a tough buck." The guy-behind-the-Marcus mask, apart from using every tedious forensic debate diversion from modus ponens to reductio ad absurdum, tried to discredit my remarks by discrediting me . . . that I ain't blue-collar enough, though I've been earning my own living since age thirteen. I'm "well-off" enough that justice and fairness and being mugged is something I have no right to want in the formers, and nothing to which I've the right to bitch about, in the latter. Pure looney diversionary bullshit, to be sure, but not even a particularly good "oh look! a pony!" diversion. Even so... I tried to counter his sleight-of-thought by pointing out that though, yes, there ARE writers like Stephen King and J.K. Rowling and Tom Clancy and Danielle Steele (two of whom are old acquaintances), who may or may not be very well-off, which has nothing to do with the sane portions of this exordium, MOST writers--myself and Adam-Troy Castro and the few thousand others who make their daily bread from WRITING ALONE--no sinecures at Universities or tech-writing gigs or advertising or plumbing or ditch-digging, which usually pay a better, steadier income--all of them, and me too included, literally live from day to day, like Willy Loman "out there on a smile and a shoeshine," and it gets harder every day as the internet gobbles up more, as bookstores fail, as decent- paying magazines like Playboy no longer buy fiction, as magazines like Saturday Evening Post and Collier's vanish, as getting into tv and movies becomes nigh impossible if you're old enough to remember, say, the first POSEIDEN ADVENTURE.

M tried to divert your attention, and I sought to point out that MOST people work for corporations, or companies, or the city, or the state, or the military, or the federal government, or pharmaceutical manufacturers, or farming consortia, or fast-food chains, or transportation systems, or union-protected jobs on the docks or high steel, or...or...or...

But the self-employed, the freelancers, the men and women who just WORK ay after day making their way as best they can, well, Jessi Lee, they never know a day in which they don't have to worry about getting the rent or mortgage money up, getting enough scratch to keep the family fed and clothed and money for a hot school lunch. A smile and a shoeshine, Miz Jessi.

Yes, we never know the knout of a wretched boss, we are the Captains of our ships, the Masters of our fates, we are "self-made," and that looks great from the other side. But we know a kind and a degree of uncertainty, fatalism, and stiff spine that no one who hasn't walked that tightrope over the abyss can know.

If I sound as if I'm ennobling, even praising over others, the men and women who go it alone, well, perhaps I am. I've spent almost all of my life with such people. My Dad worked for "The Man," even though this particular man was my uncle; and I saw my father worked, literally, to death.

I'm too close to this subject to be "fair" or "even-handed" about it. But I assure you the praise of one does not compute with the denigration of any other.

Respectfully, Harlan Ellison

The Wonders of Webderland
Wow you guys love your intellectual discourse don't you, I mean hasn't anyone told you the internet is here to discuss "important things" like what wonder women wears under her Lycra or when did William Shatner start to wear his hairpiece (second season if you ask me).

But not you lot, being a fan of Ellison I stumble on to these boards not only to find intelligent conversation but the man himself, talking about anything & everything a person with half a brain (that’s me) could want. In the words of those who came before me "wacky do"

I look forward to joining in the not to distant future

With Respect & Admiration
Jarod Hitchcock

Many
What an intriguing discussion we've seen this weekend. It began with the YOUTUBE posting, and ended with an on-the-money query about the self-employed. I tip my hat to you all.

Stuck in the middle was Tom Snyder and the TOMORROW program. Because of that show -- perhaps twenty-five or thirty years ago -- I had my first encounter with Ellison. Harlan made a comment about Martin Luther and the uplifting benefits of a good bowel movement that left Snyder gasping; he grabbed me by the collar and I've been a fan ever since.

Again, my thanks to you all.

Clarification please
Mr. Ellison,

Would you please clarify your statements made today in response to Marcus Garvey: “Unless you have been a self-employed creator of Art (upper or lowercase, as you choose), you cannot know what insecurity, hard-work and persistence can be. My annuity, my legacy, my salary, my buffer against Old Age, Infirmity, Poverty...is my work. That's all of it. Just my work. The operative word is MY. That which belongs to me.” posted on Sunday, July 29 2007 14:22:57"

I am greatly disturbed by the idea that only “a self-employed creator of Art” can understand “what insecurity, hard-work and persistence can be”. I asked in the other forum for someone else to give me a different perspective on what you said and Steve Barber kindly replied with some extra context that I didn't think of right away. He also suggested I ask you directly if you would expand that thought. (But, I admit, I'm scared to do so.) My gut reaction to the initial statement made me feel like you were discrediting other types of self-employed hard working folks and that just didn't seem like you based on the other things of yours that I've read.

Thanks,

Jessi

A Comment or Four...
On threats:
What can I say? It's in my blood to react violently to things that I find threatening, but I promise to restrain myself to the best of my ability.

On the yahoos:
Don't you just love the Internet? It lets people be themselves without getting slapped across the face for it. It is truly the triumph of Western Civilization. Dammit.

On bisonburgers:
Have you ever had one of those things? They are awe-inspiring. I think we should try to breed more bison (on a cattle level) and send that meat to me and India. A lot of people over there can't eat beef, but bison isn't beef, and you know that they would be crazy for the bison over there. You could finally get a burger in Bombay without insulting anybody! Nobody steal this idea from me!

And on comic-book seller guys:
Ha! I never would have become a fan of Mr. Ellison if the guy behind the counter hadn't tricked my poor, unwitting mother into buying *The Essential Ellison* for her young, sf-loving son as a gift on a holiday past. I remember my first impression being something along the lines of “That's a damn thick book!” Just goes to show you that some of these people recognize good work.

Not that I need to add to the Marcus terpsichorical chaos, but...

"You have the right to ask something, but if someone in the masses says no, you do not have the ethical right to clobber that person with a legal mallet if its a minuscle infraction."

Um. Actually. Wrong. Completely, horribly and unsocially. The person who erred in the first place is the ethical problem, not the one who enforces their right of property. It's the fool who suggests otherwise who is a blight upon "the masses" -- "masses" who themselves usually follow the rule of law.


"You are not that bad off. You live well. The courts are not a weapon for the well off and famous."

Huh? You ... gotta be kidding. Harlan ain't using them that way, but ... well, you gotta be kidding.

(And what does this have to do with the price of rice in China?)

(I suspect you're the same person making these arguments under a different pseudonym over on the boards, but I'll repeat myself just for giggles.)

The relative poverty of a person making a legal claim to their own property has nothing whatever to do with it. If the New York Times prints a copy of Josh's script, or Adam-Troy's story, or my photograph without permission -- or posts an NBC copyrighted late-night television show like, oh, The Tom Snyder Show to their website -- then they deserve to be challenged. If it's a kid with a high-speed modem it's the exact same thing. One is not more right than the other -- that makes no sense.

"The laws you want to use were design by true "robber barons" - conservative business tycoons. That's the compnay you want to keep, fine. I just don't get it. Nor do i think its a philosophy worth praising."

"Robber barons"???

*Ahem*

(Please do some research.)

Civil courtesy was not created to help "robber barons". Civil courtesy has been handed down through millenia as a way to keep us apes from beating each other senseless for a bisonburger.

However Copyright Laws -- those things that protect the artist from theft of their work -- were passed by legislatures and the Congress to protect the little guys and the big guys alike.

The internet -- and, trust me, I know quite a bit more about it than you do, both legally and structurally -- is not without its laws. You know as well as I that posting illegal material is frowned upon by Youtube. They just spent many millions of dollars having their legal ass handed to them by the film, television and music companies.

Harlan asked the person who posted it to take it down. The next step would have been to ask Youtube to take it down. Youtube would've been a great deal less understanding with David -- who did the right thing, BTW -- than Harlan was.

This is not Sherwood Forest, and stealing from a moderately well-off writer is not the same as Robin Hood -- it's thuggery, petty theft and shoplifting. Anyone who invisions it as anything grander is deluding themselves as to how the world of the internet (or copyright laws) (or civil courtesy) works.

Oh. And.

TOM CLANCY
MALCOLM FORBES
JENNY CRAIG
SAM ASH
JIMMY BUFFETT
WILLIAM MORRIS
HARRY FOX
LARRY H PARKER
ELVIS PRESLEY (well, his estate)
DONALD TRUMP
MARTHA STEWART
MADONNA
TINA TURNER
WALT DISNEY

and, as noted, many others.

For those unfamiliar w/ Castro's work, the fact that he has been nominated for Hugo, Nebula and Stoker awards might place his comments below in some perspective. Not just a journeyman writer.

Affirmations all around!
Conversations like the ones happening here over the last few weeks are the reason I love this board.

Keep it up, Webderlanders!

Derek

I Should Not, But Must
Adding a postscript to an Ellisonian explanation risks effrontery as well as redundancy, but I feel there is one aspect to this exchange that Harlan did not think of addressing, even though he has addressed similar concerns in the past.

To wit: as one of his arguments urging Harlan to just let unauthorized usage of his work pass, Marcus wrote, "You are not that bad off. You live well."

Yes, he does live well. I know it's not without struggle, even now, but, yes, he does live well. Yay, him.

What about those of us who don't?

What about those of us who DON'T have his legal resources?

When somebody rips off Harlan's work, and he tells them to cease and desist, and they defy him, and he gives them a warning, and they STILL defy him, and he THEN lets them have both legal barrels...he is helping himself, of course, but he is also creating precedents that help those of us who don't have legal sharks on retainer.

My wake in the field of imaginative literature may be a carp's, rather than Harlan's Orca, but I have still been ripped off on the internet, multiple times, and I have, each time, found getting the perpetrators to cease and desist MUCH easier because I was able to reference the fights Harlan has won. MY legal counsel was able to coast on Harlan's tire tracks. And because of that, I was better able to afford the bills in the relative hovel where *I* live.

Multiply my experience by dozens, hundreds, of others who have ALSO been ripped off, and been aided by Harlan's experience.

Oh, and one other thing: that comic-store guy who knows Harlan as the crazy old guy who sues everyone? I can only ask, how many actual books can he discuss with knowledge and authority? If less than five...why is his opinion of any writer decisive, in any way?

After all the brouhaha about YouTube, I just had to investigate. In the video "Harlan Ellison Mind Fields Part 3," Harlan makes a comment that is more relevant today than it was then.

When a caller to Tom Snyder's show mentions that he belongs to a "computer service," Harlan replies:

"It's not that I don't like computer services. What I don't like are the harebrained idiots who get on these computer bulletin boards and spend all night long bad-mouthing people with impunity, spreading gossip and doing ugliness ... Everyday I have friends who call me and they say, 'You should see what was said on Genie last night, what was said on Prodigy last night'--and I say, 'I don't want to know, I don't want to know. These people are spring-loaded vomit. That's all they are.'"

"Spring-loaded vomit." Now THAT'S funny! (And accurate.)

By the way, the REAL Marcus Garvey said, "Do not remove the kinks from your hair--remove them from your mind." While I do not know the status of the hair of our recent--and rude--correspondents, I feel confident in saying that they should heed the above advice and get to work on those mental kinks, as they are obviously afflicted with an overabundance of such.

...AND Hitchcock
...AND Mick Jagger
...AND Michael Jackson
...AND The Beatles
...AND Stephen King
...AND Boris Karloff
...AND Asimov
...AND Louie Armstrong
...AND Mel Brooks
...AND Mark Twain
...AND Orson Welles
...AND Wes Craven
...AND Marilyn Monroe
...AND Andy Warhol
...AND Picasso
...AND Ray Bradbury
...................and, indeed, you'll find, somewhere in the millions, the trade name of Harlan Ellison.

When the stupid fucks come over here - I tell's ya - it's like harvest day in the Tontine.

As the Duke once said to Susie Hayward:
Harlan, "you are beautiful in thy wrath."

Protect what's yours, baby, and decimate the numbnuts who just don't get it. Guess they've never had anything stolen from them.

Yr Pal,

Pogue

To "Marcus Garvey,"

"You live in a white and black world"

Sir, are you aware that racism is a horrific plague on humanity, that many have died its victims, and that by stealing the name of a civil rights luminary AND altering a well known saying so that black ends up in a subservient position to white you are trivializing the suffering and loss of literally millions of good men and women? All in the service of parsing someone's comments online in search of an excuse to express phony righteous indignation?

Shame on you, sir. Would you be so cavalier in the face of a victim of racism? I think not.

Motard.

Serves me right. That's what I get for trying to be civil, and trying to educate with logic and truth, those who are deified with even a worm existence on this egalitarian abattoir called the internet.

To quote the great social critics and philosophers Will and Ariel Durant: "Freedom and equality are sworn and mutual enemies. And where one prevails, the other perishes."

How do y'all like your beloved internet NOW? The smartest and wittiest of you is now EQUAL to the nastiest, snottiest, most ignorant, most prejudiced, least worthy of you.

Harlan

YO you asshole:

How about

JAMES DEAN
HUMPHREY BOGART
WINSTON CHURCHILL
MARTHA STEWART
MARILYN MONROE
LADY DIANA
JOHN LENNON
JAQUELINE KENNEDY
JOHN WAYNE
SUPERMAN
BATMAN
CAPTAIN AMERICA
ANDY PANDA
MICKEY MOUSE

and me, you poor stupid out-in-the-dark ultra-maroon

you ignoramus.

You non-registered, non-trademarkable Nobody representing Nothing Nohow Noway Never.

Ooops, how un-egalitarian of me. How Elitist of me. Did I actually say all of that aloud? Ooops. My bad. Everyone is Equal, and No One is Better'n Anybody Else.

Just ask the yup-yop who cringes behind YO.

-he

Harl Baby!!!!

Tell a rape victim to her or his face that what they went through was the same as the youtube fiasco.

anyway bye. not going to hear from me again. see ya Harl!

Harlan, thanks for saying this:
"Legally, it is required of me that I have no choice and MUST go after every breach of my copyrights or my registered trademark."

This is a point I'm constantly repeating to people, and they just plumb won't believe it. You can point out a thousand examples, and they're stunned. "Can't be," they say. "That's just silly." Well, maybe it is. But it's also true. Ask the folks at Xerox. Ask the owners of Harvey Comics. A trademark must be protected. If you find out it's infringed and just let it go, you can quite literally lose title. Did you know (oh, hell, of course YOU knew) that the words thermos, aspirin, cellophane and nylon were all once trademarks?

It's not about being selfish. It's not about being arrogant and giving some poor slob a hard time over very little. It's about retaining title. And while many of us may have little sympathy if, say, Disney loses title to Orpheus the Elephant Man, most writers aren't Disney. These titles are your retirement, your home, your life.

But I do apologize to David, because he stepped up to the plate and did the right thing. Kudos, David!

Sir: I have read your post of immutable, obstinate advocacy of theft. It is imbecile. You dishonor the noble memory of Marcus Garvey by hiding behind a pseudonym. Yellow-belly cowards should not try to educate their betters about ethics.

Go away. It is arrant foolishness attempting to turn a sluggard into a savant.

-MISTER Ellison, to you.

You are trade mark and not a man... how sad.

who trade marks their name? You and... you.

The rest of the world gets by fine without it.

CRAP!!!!!! I HIT THE WRONG BUTTON !!!!!!!!

AS I WAS SAYING ...

woman of middle years. She's handled well over 200 of these picayune slapdowns for me. I spot one (or some of YOU spot one and tell me), and I pass it on to her--usually save them up unless they're particularly egregious or--like David--the person posting responds positively--at which point I thank'm and go away--and I send her three or four in a bunch. She does her thing, in moments, and she follows up, escalating as is required by obdurate arrogance or sophomoric ignorance; and every time--save once, where it went on toward legal redress, and the kid called me in tears, and I let him off the hook--the pirate winds up paying her for her time and effort. This is a win-win situation for me, for her, and even FOR YOU, Marcus, because it lets the light of sanity and courtesy and the primacy of interest in his/her creative properties, into the big smug internet world, where every snarky child and dimwitted adult learns the value of respecting the property of others.

Angry Old Man Who Sues Everybody. I can live with that. I am a Grand Master, I have many books in print, many more coming back INTO print, a great wife, a smashing home, a congeries of the truest and keenest friends and fans any greedy author could want, a lifetime of brave and charming memories. Do I REALLY give a fuck if some overweight guy scratching his ass behind a comicbook counter doesn't know me from Guy de Maupassant or Mary, Queen of Scots?

Legally, it is required of me that I have no choice and MUST go after every breach of my copyrights or my registered trademark. (And I tell you this in confidence: that trademarking business, which Susan thought of, and effectuated, has made us more than
$50,000 already. Fifty grand and the reversion of five of my books that would've been tied up in bankruptcy red tape and legal pursuits for a decade!)(Do not, kindly, I beg you, tell me I don't know what I'm doing.)(Being a freelance writer is a Mom'n'Pop business, and I run my li'l grocery store better than all but a handful of genre writers.) If I let one slide through without either a)insisting on cease and desist or b)making a $1 courtesy contract PERMITTING use, then when I HAVE TO fight one of the big ones, they can point to it in their briefs or in open court, and say, "Well, you didn't say anything when X put up your reading on YOUtube...blah blah blah...

Do you now begin to understand why Angry Old Man Who Sues Everybody is a commodious accolade?!?!

3) I've forgotten who the hell I was going to respond to, or what I was going to say. Oh well. (For those who think it will do any good to post the foregoing short essay--not a rant--gawd, I despise the misuse of that word on the net--that, and screed--please add

--------------------------------------------------------------
Copyright c 2007 by The Kilimanjaro Corporation. All rights reserved.
--------------------------------------------------------------

and post it anywhere and everywhere you think it might enliven and enlighten. I live to serve. And to sue.

Yr. Pal, Harlan Ellison

rape? wow.
Sir,

""If you're going to be raped anyhow, just lie back and enjoy it"

Tell a rape victim to her or his face that what they went through was the same as the youtube fiasco.

Your friends here have made similar analogies.. that the youtube incident is the same as: Holocaust, child rape, beating a cripple, the war in Iraq, Enron scandel.

Sir... the Youtube incident was not that big of a deal. You have the right to ask something, but if someone in the masses says no, you do not have the ethical right to clobber that person with a legal mallet if its a minuscle infraction. You are not that bad off. You live well. The courts are not a weapon for the well off and famous. The laws you want to use were design by true "robber barons" - conservative business tycoons. That's the compnay you want to keep, fine. I just don't get it. Nor do i think its a philosophy worth praising.

There's a more thoughtful discussion over in the other forum here. You might want to look at it.

You live in a white and black world. But that's not the reality of the world. Its not just a stern right or wrong. Either with Harlan or against him... laywer on speed dial!

I think you knew you couldn't even win in court.... not your video, but still tried to scare the dude with the threat of destitution. If cold vengence is your game, then I certainly quesiton your morality.

But you should read this first... its more in line with current society.

http://www.newmediamusings.com/blog/2003/09/mobys_advice_to.html
http://www.moby.com/node/4857

SLAP LEATHER, MUTHUHFUGGUH!!!

1) CINDY, BABY: I confess that even in the face of excruciating things happening in the world, your indomitable faith in the existence of a kindly and nurturing God makes me smile, makes me love you all the more. You are a great treasure in my and Susan's (and this website's) life. The book coming to your mailbox will spread a smile on YOUR exquisite face.

2) MARCUS: Rather than making me sigh and downcast, the overheard description of me as the "angry old guy who sues everyone" by a total stranger/funnybookstore owner--who ignores 50 productive years of an artist's life to sum him up thus--lightens my spirit. Apart from this guy being so out of the cultural loop that his vita of me is, well, kinda dopey and ignorant, even so, his summation lightens my spirit and makes me smile. I'll explain. As I have MANY times before, and as one of the Webderlanders did just a day or so ago. (It IS wearying, though, continually over and over and over to the point of futility and crankiness, having to repeat the same boilerplate commonsense irrefutable basic logic, time after time after time ad exhaustia, to Those Who Came Late To The Conversation, Came In Halfway Through The Movie, Were Picking Their Nose And Not Listening.)

Unless you have been a self-employed creator of Art (upper or lowercase, as you choose), you cannot know what insecurity, hard-work and persistence can be. My annuity, my legacy, my salary, my buffer against Old Age, Infirmity, Poverty...is my work. That's all of it. Just my work. The operative word is MY. That which belongs to me.

You may trumpet the wonders of YouTube and MySpace and OurShit as much as you wish, your prerogative. But MYwork is M*Y work, and no one, with good intention or casual ignorance of the law, or malice, or anything else, has any say in what is done with MY work. You like the internet, fine. You like YouTube, fine. I don't. Also fine.

But if I countenance your philosophy, which boils down simply to "You can't fight City Hall" or "If you're going to be raped anyhow, just lie back and enjoy it" or "No one can sweep the beach free of sand," then I'll have worked fifty years for no surety in my old age; my wife will be left with nothing of value; and casual strangers such as yourself will have perhaps a moment of pleasure sharing me and what I've done with comicbookstore owners who haven't read a word I've written, are unaware of a lifetime spent defending the First Amenment, care about nothing outside THEIR little moneymaking ventures; and will have given in like a coward to societal pressures--the like of which I have resisted since I was a child.

Why does being thought of by total strangers as "an angry old man who sues everybody?" Stop and think for a moment, Marcus:
how much money on legal fees does this OH SHIT, ELLISON MIGHT SUE ME IF I do such&such or this'n'that save me? How many who simply cannot grasp the concept of copyright, of creative property, of not-everything-in-the-world-is-yours-to-do-with
just because you want to, will this free-floating canard save me the trouble of having to swat?

First of all, I have several attorneys, one of whom is a housebound woman of middle years, a practicing attorney of great skill who can no longer appear in a live courtroom. She makes a nice additional income from handling the more than

Did I put that fuckin' quotation mark in the wrong place?
:(

Hmmmmm,
That's a tough directive, Harlan-- but I'll mind.

I won't try to convince you. I won't cite proof of God and his enormous love for you-- I won't point out that marvels like Susan are as rare as James River pearls... that gifts like her love for you and yours for her could be neither happenstance nor coincidence. Although, I must confess I like to think that I had a hand in it. For years before you met Susan, I prayed for you to never be lonely-- to be happy and (if it couldn't be me) that you would find the perfect one for you. My prayers for you were answered so beautifully and so fully. The picture that Josh took of you and Susan on the street almost made me cry it was so lovely. The two of you are so in love and so blissful in each others company after all these wonderful years. God is wise and he clearly knows best. But-- I'm not trying to convince you of anything... really... umm, because you told me not to.
:)
As for Cheney, you know my brother, Randy, is a Neurologist. He's of the opinion- medically speakin' that "you can't kill shit".
;)
Cindy

P.S. Y'all sent me a book? That's the sweetest thing! I'm waitin' by my mailbox with a magazine over my head (it continues to rain here)... the suspense is killin' me. I'm anxious to see what the title is for a clue as to why you thought of me. OH that reminds me-- I have been listening to The Secret. Do you realize if this shit is true then Al Gore is responsible for Global Warming? Laughing at my own joke...I remain; yer pal, Cindy

BATTLE CRY
Hi Harlan,
Ya, I have added another item to my collection. I aquired a beautiful copy of the April 1957 issue of the men's adventure magazine BATTLE CRY, where your piece entitled "The Battle of Lake Erie" appeared. I did some research and found that the story was quite factual and described a truely historical event that occurred on September 10, 1813 in Lake Erie, where American
Commodore Oliver Hazard Perry, defeated a British naval squadron. What can you tell me about your desire to write the piece?

These days, I wouldn't even say hi to a guy named Jack in an airport.

Total agreement here about Reagan serving his two terms in a braindead state. I just couldn't escape the mental picture of the "GIVE MY CREATION... LIFE!" scene from Young Frankenstein every time I heard the news item about Cheney's pacemaker adjustment, though.

I wholeheartedly agree with Harlan's comment about death threats. Even if the threat is made entirely in jest, vocal inflections and body English (nudge, nudge, wink, wink) don't appear with the written word, and the already paranoid guardians of the High Schuckamucks may serve the threatener with a one-way ticket to Gitmo. (Oh well, at least you'll get top-notch medical care.)

And don't say the word "bomb" in an airport, even if it's in the context of "lip balm": the Homeland Security folk will simply assume you've got the bomb in your mouth.

What a long, strange trip we're on ...

quick note
Harlan might want to move on to other topics... so please insult me in the other chat room. I didn't intend for this to clog his space for so long.
====================

Harlan,

I respect your work. I question your ethics. Intelligent people can disagree. I wrote something wrong... I didn't mean that I think you need to go back to writing. I just meant that you could just let your career stand as is and not be tainted by being "the crazy angry guy". Remember the Fools Cap incident? Everyone here believed the false version of the story.

The other week before this new incident appearently started at a comic shop I overhead the shop owner refer to you as "the angry guy who sues everyone" And funnily, on a lark I check your website and you're in a tiff with a dude over a mere youtube video.

Your career is your business, and I shouldn't have said anything. I don't get the fuss, as someone who is trying to get into the biz... I don't personally believe the controlled "pirating" of youtube is bad. And certainly many intelligent and well regarded professional artists use youtube as a tool to get their work out there. I also don't see the logic in sledgehammering one guy with the legal system instead of taking things up with the heart of the issue... youtube. I was more defending the other side more than I was attempting to attack. I hope that makes sense.

Yeah, I know it's been said...
Just my two cents.

"M:"
Allow me, Oh Most Well Reasoned Speaker for the Thieves, to give a personal example of what everyone here has been talking about.
About 3 months ago, I wanted to use one of Mr. Ellison's esays in a college course I was taking. Now, even though I am fairly sure (and please, any lawyers, correct me on the specifics of this, I'd hate to give someone wrong info) that "Fair Use" includes teaching purposes. IE, if a professor wants to copy a story in small numbers, he or she can, as long as it is purely for instructional use.
Anyway, despite that belief, and despite the fact that I KNEW FOR SURE that there was no way, no how Mr. Ellison would ever, ever find out, I still swung by here and personally asked his permission.
Why? Now listen carefully, cuz this parts important.
BECAUSE IT'S HIS FUCKING STORY! PERIOD! And if he had decided to say no, I wouldn't have used it. Becuase it is HIS, not MINE, HIS! Written, spoken, translated into the native tounge of the Cro-Magnon and written in jelly on the Lascaux caves, they are still his work and he gets the final say on what is done with them.

And, by the way your brilliant defense of piracy; "But everyone else was doing it" is pretty much exactly the same defense given at the Nuremburg Tribunals.

Just sayin'.

-Cary "Realizing that even visting here just put him on five more Government lists" Bleasdale

Geezus-peezus, you guys!

Outside my house are two large placard-signs that implore passing motorists to IMPEACH BUSH & CHENEY, and no one should be in doubt that I despise this twisted nest of gartersnakes as much as the most frustrated of you, but

Holy
Gadzoley
Betty
Spaghetti

knock off the death-threat stuff. It may seem rebellious and even (in some people's minds) necessary, but this kind of

loose lips
sink ships

and it ain't smart nowhichway. They ARE watching, gang; even if you're totally paranoid. Remember: Dr. Richard Kimble thought "they're after me," and in his case ... they were!

1984 is just around the corner. Play nice. I'd hate to lose any of you. Not to mention Susan would feel REALLY pissed-off if she lost ME.

With a crick in his neck
from looking over his
shoulder and under the bed,

Yr. Pal, Harlan

The Curse of Tippecanoe was broken when John Hinckley failed to assassinate Ronnie Reagan, although many believe he had mentally died in office years before his term expired.

PS: thank you to the people here for your best wishes for my daughter. You're very kind. Every time I look at wee Fiona I just fall in love with her more. And I doubt that'll ever change. I am just lucky and blessed and proud and happy.

And leaving here before I warble embarrassingly on more.

Thank you.

G.

Thank you Susan. I'm glad my news made you two smile. The last few months have not been easy ones for myself or my wife, for (sigh) various heavy reasons I am not going to go into (which made me a bit argumentative on the net as an outlet for my pains and frustrations, unfortunately), but looking at my beautiful wee lassie tonight (sitting to my left on the floor as I write this, burbling and gurgling happily away in happy sleeping babytalk, as my wife grabs some well-earned rest next door) I feel all my problems melt away. I even read her Repent, Harlequin! in utero, so if she develops crazy habits with jellybeans or japes or jokes or jabberwockys of jive or jester costumes...we'll know who to blame.

G.

Cheney and such...
I know that the goverment is monitoring all my activities because of my last name, so this will probably get me in big trouble with the man, but I have to say this...

How come no one has assassinated these bastards that are ruining our country and our world? If someone can muster up the balls to kill JFK of all presidents, then why hasn't someone taken out the big flaming bush? What the hell happened to the Curse of Tippecanoe?! I remember a day when you could rely on hoodoo to get things done. But that apparently only works for the bad guys.

And if not death to the bastards, then impeach them! Has our system become so corrupt? I mean it always has been corrupt, but these bastards don't even have the common dignity to hide it!

I'm really sorry about all the ranting, and I'm really, really sorry that you guys may be tagged as terrorists with me now, but I wouldn't be that afraid. I'm banking on the government being to afraid of Mr. Ellison to do anything about it.

Harlan and god (God...or Gaaawwwwd-uh)
HARLAN: God working the counter at a KFC: now THAT'S Cah-muhdee!
-DTS
P.S. I only loved the essay on Sturgeon (I may never get the image of someone scratchin' their fundament and dipping into the fixin's with the same hand outta my head).

3 THINGS, ONE OF WHICH BEARS GRAVITAS

1) DAVID: My thanks. Visit anytime. Courtesy and kindness are always valued by the denizens hereabouts, particularly me.
You are a mensch and, again, a smile and a tip'o'the hat.

2) ALL: From time to time someone plays the "old fogey" or the Luddite card with me. I do not deign to validate such rude and discursive silliness, even by the veriest denial. Yet most of you recognize my true feelings anent cultural and technological shifts, and I am content knowing that; for those who favor ad hominem, well, I leave them to their ipods and their ignorance. But for those of you vacillating twixt'n'tween those opinions, I offer the latest in my sage observations of modern trends that deserve nothing but plaudits. To wit:

When I was a kid, I loved the ice cream cone treat called the DRUMSTICK. Still do. Just had one, nuts and all. Taste as super today as back in the 1940s. Ahhh, but...one of the truly terrifying races-to-the-finish-line when I were a tot, was gnawing away on a Drumstick fast enough to get down through the nuts and chocolate BEFORE the melting of the ice cream started, and it leaked out the bottom of the cone onto your summer-sticky paws, and you had to suck through the soggy sump at the bottom of the rapidly-deteriorating object, thereby diminishing the full pleasure of the treatful procedure.

Today, I realized that modern technology had obviated that brain-awful problem. The makers of Drumstick (long may they milk) have devised a sump-plug of rock-hard chocolate wedged in the tip of the cone. It don't leak! It don't sog! It don't drip! Hallelujah, I is saved, I is refabulasted!! Huzzah for science and technology! (But piss on the ipod, the internet, and overdubbing.)

3) CINDY & UNNAMED OTHERS: Kindly do not try to convince me that god is not dead:

Dick Cheney has had 4 (count 'em 4) serious heart attacks, and he's younger than I. He's had his heart-zapper replaced, now, for the third time. He is EeeVillll Incarnate, and...

He walks out of the hospital not only ticking like the Energizer Bunny, but he's smiling, waving, and munching on the still-beating heart of a baby.

Kindly do not try to concince me god is not dead. Or comatose. Or just not doing a very good job.

God ought to be working the counter at a KFC.

Yr. Pal, Harlan

Graham:

Congratulations on the baby. Harlan is all smiles, as am I.

Susan

Reading portion removed
http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=Mandelbrotion

My apologies.

Lee: $15 dollars / six issues (according to the Rabbitt Hole info box)

REPLY TO "M" FROM HARLAN ELLISON

Sir:

My apologies. It was never my intention to offend you so deeply when I asked David to delete just that one snippet of an interview given years before YouTube existed. I could not, of course, have seen into the future at that distant moment, and refused Tom Snyder's gracious request to read one of the short pieces in MIND FIELDS.

Grousing about it now would be silly on my part, and your excellent point is well-taken. And that is why, in mildest term, I sought that small favor from David. I had no idea it would blossom into such unkindness all around.

And for that, I truly apologize.

Please accept these words from a very old man at the end of his days, who hopes that more than fifty years of commended work is sufficient to buy him a little quietus to, perhaps, all things being equal, turn out a few more stories that may make you think more kindly of

Yrs., respectfully, Harlan Ellison

REPLY TO "M" FROM HARLAN ELLISON

It ain't me..I ain't no fortunate one....

Just got back here and did a super fast skim from my original posting Re: the Mind Fields debacle.

Thank you Mark, for finding/knowing it was not me who put this on YouTube. Thanks David for clearing that up.

Harlan, just as i would not make such a mistake as to misspell a book title (I would look it up if i were unsure), i would also not post anything to any site without express permission. I do not 'believe in piracy', but i do like seeing interviews etc. that i haven't seen before. I didn't want to cause a stir. I've worn through two copies of Mind Fields and still can't read SUSAN aloud without tears. Be well.

In the interest of full disclosure, i HAVE done a very naughty thing. I was in a Borders, and saw the Harry Potter Deathly Hollows book, and i did not pay for it, i did not know any spoilers, and i.....i...i read the epilogue. Just that. Nothing more. I hang my head in shame.

But then, i have always been a deeply disturbed person. :)

Graham, glad all are healthy and pink. Boy are you in for a helluva ride. :)

I would be interested in the musicians (or their families) stories on music piracy and the financial effects, negative or otherwise, thereof.

*Mother? Am i back in father's good graces yet?*
*After you eat your lima beans.*
*Awwwww.....*

The Absolute

David-

Of course you are right that the main point is to respect the wishes of the artist, and not insult him in his own home.

I got sucked in by M's reveling in his own kleptotic ways. I don't see a lot of grey area there, and I do see a lot of people getting hurt by piracy.

But that's a sideline. The key issue is the artist has the right to control his or her own work. You nailed it.

discussion with M
There are some gray areas in this discussion and one absolute. Truthfully I don't think posting one reading of a story will hurt sales of a book. And I don't think traffic at book stores is down because of pirating. It's down because people like me are too busy to trek down to the mom and pop bookstore so we order on Amaazon. And of course it is down because some people just don't read anymore.
But there is one absolute here....Harlan is the only one who has a right to decide where his property is displayed. And to go against his wishes and insult him in his "home" is, well, just plain rude.

Curtesy and respect
I think the point is that it doesn't take much to simply respect the wishes of the man, and not publish this over at youtube.
I dont read Harry Potter, but when the author asked people not to reveal the ending in advance, they had the curtesy to listen to that plea, regardless of any legal issues, and so they didn't.
It didn't require much effort to respect it and nobody thought it could serve any meaningful purpose *not* to respect it.
This is no different, except now, not respecting the wishes of the author seems to be the whole point.
- Why?

Tony,

""M" was the guy who sang the song "Pop Muzik" from way back in 1979! We're talking Galaxy-class star here, guys and gals."

Funny. I was getting more of that Peter Lorre child-fucker vibe off him.

Rob,

"I think it's a lame gripe for those hung up on the issue of posters using pseudonyms. I even like pseudonyms if they're clever. Since we're all faceless in this cyberverse, what the hell difference does it make, so long as sentiments in the postings are sincere?"

And I share your enjoyment of a good cyber character. But if you're going to take cheap potshots at people, it's craven. I know every time I post something that someone could, if they so desired, take the time to figure out where I'm gonna be, and come punch me in the nose for what I said to them online.

For instance - what I said to M earlier - I wouldn't have posted that if I wasn't prepared to stand by it. If that creepy little coward wants to look me up and confront me with the fact that I said his life is useless and if he ever have kids, they'll be useless, too, he can. If you can't stand behind what you say, don't say it. Pretty simple.

Christ, Harlan's been SHOT AT for stuff he's written. He knew going in that that was a possibility. And this buggering knave is going to take cheap shots at someone like that from behind a wall of anonymity?

Truth is, we've all given the little asshole WAY too much attention and respect by acknowledging his existence. I suggest ignoring the fucker.

M
First off, I just want to make it clear that I, the person who usually posts as Michael M, am not the same person as the arrogant and deeply, deeply, deeply stupid person calling himself "M."

Probably there was no confusion in the first place, but just in case. Yecch.

Next, "M" you make a couple of statements that are so obviously, provably not true that it's clear you aren't paying any attention to the world beyond your doorstep.

You rhetorically ask who in the field of music or movies or literature has been hurt by internet piracy. Are you nuts?? Music labels (and the musicians they serve) have been absolutely gut punched by piracy. Now, you can argue that they've been slow to adapt, or lazy about formulating new business models, but not hurt? You have got to be kidding.

Likewise book stores. Walk into any bookstore, my friend. Pick one at random. Find the manager. Ask them if the internet has hurt their business at all and then brace yourself for an earful. Bookstores, especially the terrific, mom and pop bookstores that really keep literature alive are having an awful time. Just in the last few weeks LA's lost two excellent book stores. They're dropping like flies, pal. Not exclusively because of piracy or the internet, but you'd better believe that's part of the problem.

All because a generation has grown up believing that they have an absolute right to be entertained, now, for free -- as if the creative sweat of another man's brow was a birthright like air and water.

Sheesh!

"I advocate piracy!"

As does the Bush administration
As did Jack Abramoff
As did Enron
As do all robber barons

M, y'know that's like my declaring the right to pilfer magazines or books from Borders because I happen to be tight on cash. 'Less you're a homeless person with a police record (in which case reality would have a completely different meaning to you), you need a reality check.

It's one thing to say, "I really believe artists should make available SOME of their stuff for free". It's another to say, "I BELIEVE in the virtue of STEALING!" No matter how much you feel you can validate your larger argument, you abandon all reason when you put in lights a policy like THAT!

Are you truly so lame as to need the problem here explained to you? You MIGHT want to review your reasoning.

(BTW, for your consoling on the matter, I think it's a lame gripe for those hung up on the issue of posters using pseudonyms. I even like pseudonyms if they're clever. Since we're all faceless in this cyberverse, what the hell difference does it make, so long as sentiments in the postings are sincere? That's what counts to ME)

The subject is "M"
We had no idea a star was in our midst, folks.

"M" was the guy who sang the song "Pop Muzik" from way back in 1979! We're talking Galaxy-class star here, guys and gals.

I wonder if he's ever had his songs posted or ripped off without his knowledge? Probably has (being a singing superstar and all).

Sharing is caring
"If Harlan Ellison didn't want his books scanned & e-mailed to everyone in the freakin' world, FOR FREE, I guess he shouldna published, eh? Same effin' argument."

First off... it's not the same argument.

Maybe I'm wrong but there is no product which one can buy which has a AUDIO version of that story. And the shot of the graphic was weak. It would be inconcieveable that people think: "Well gee, now that I saw that grainy youtube clip of one out of 33 stories, there really isn't any reason to buy that book."

If anything that clip could boost sales of the book. In fact if one of his fans or his laywer or he or someone set up a Harlan Youtube account, which many many many professional artists do... Harlan could easily boost interest in his works.

Secondly, you are setting up what is known as:

a slippery slope fallacy.

It's a type of flaw in reasoning in which the argument assumes a continued cascading pattern of events based on a single event.

It's not an uncommon claim made by certain personality-types of artists that if the consumer can get x amount of stuff on the net for free, then the consumer won't pay for anything. But that's simply not true. Who, in the field of music, movies, literature, illustration, etc, has actually been put out of business by youtube? Or has seen such a sharp decline in sales that the internet was actually a threat to their career?

People still like to experience things. Yes I pirate loads of stuff, so does everyone I know from ages 10-70. But we all still buy things. So do their aquantences. Becuase it's a richer experince of the art, and becuase it's morally right to support artists. I've never been to an empty bookstore. I've never had a sales clerk come up to me and say "Thank god you're here! Ever since the net really took off... we're lucky to make enough just to eat.... catfood, but it's still something."

I spend a lot of time with the poor. I've never met a writer who was squashed by youtube or by pdf scans and now begs for survival.

I am a huge advocate of piracy; I also spend crazy money on artistic endevour. It's the same old story.... blame the youth, or new technology, even though you don't understand them.

Thirdly, I didn't swear other than the word hell. And it was just a general exclaimation of hell. Not like "go to hell" or aynthing. But you swore. So any arguement about my character....

Fourthy, why do you need to know my name? Frank Church isn't his real name. Plenty of people here use aliases. If I had posted as "Fred Jones" you wouldn't think twcie about it, even though its not my name. So what's wrong with just an M?

Why they do this stuff
Charlie, your comments may have been meant rhetorically, but there really IS a reason these doofuses let themselves in for lawsuits:

They don't believe it can really happen.

People on the web are always making noises about suing. Running the oldest Book-and-Author site on the internet, I used to keep a lawyer on retainer because I was threatened with suits on a monthly basis. Eventually, I stopped, because none of the threats had teeth. They didn't even have gums.

So these doofusae are assuming that all such threats are toothless. Clearly, they should not. Anyone with a modicum of websavvy can find how seriously Harlan protects his property (as well he should). But they kid themselves. "No one's gonna hassle ME," they say. "He can't find out where -I- live." They're so used to white noise that they can't hear the sonic purity as the air-raid sirens peak.

Here's the belly-laugh of it all: the biggest malefactors, the constant cretins are almost always people who think intellectual property doesn't exist. Somewhere along the line, they got the idea that because it's hard to prevent copying and redistribution, it's really "legal." Thus you get incredibly lame rationales. David's "it's a promotion piece" is typical. He doesn't grasp that it's not his to promote.

On my webpages, we have the following boilerplate.

--------------
The Books & Writers Community respects copyright law. Copyrighted material may not be used here without the specific written permission of the copyright holder. All written, spoken and visual material, including that published on-line, is assumed to be copyrighted unless it is clearly identified as being in the public domain. Photographs are not permitted without specific copyright permission from the original source. This especially applies to photographs published in newspaper, other news media or commercial web sites.

Brief "fair use" excerpts are allowed as exceptions, but the staff must make final determinations of where "fair use" ends and infringement begins. Roughly, "fair use" allows less than 10% of the total of the work copied, or 500 words, whichever is less. No more than 1 stanza of a song or poem may be posted, without such a grant of permission. Remember, even a "fair use" excerpt should be properly attributed. This means that the source must be given even if the item is not copyrighted.

Please note that merely attributing credit is not the same as "fair use." You cannot post a copyrighted work and excuse it by mentioning the owner/creator. Copyright is literally "the right to copy." Without the explicit permission of the owner, you do not have that right. Similarly, though some web sites claim the posting of a copyrighted work is permitted by fair use, their assumption does not grant permission to others to post such material here. They may be in error!
-------------

Straightforward and simple--and almost useless. We're constantly removing infringements. "Everybody does it. Therefore it's legal."

Leaving aside the morality of David's actions, I was wondering if the Berne Act might provide some kind of legal justification for his actions. I'm not suggesting that it necessarily would - I'm simply raising the question. It would be interesting to hear what Charlie or some of the other individuals with a legal background who post here have to say on this subject.

Susan,

Time to re-up my HERC membership.

Is it still $8 per year?

Barber: there's stupid & then there's "you won't shoot me -- you ain't got the balls!!!"

Barney: you're far too polite. This "M" is in fact a chickenshit. Any good points he makes were inadvertent, beyond the fact that chickenshits are, ironically, packed with bullshit. (Every time such a twit puts its head up, I reflect that maybe Ellison is right about the Million-Monkey March we call "being connected.") Sorry; since about 2002 I've lost the ability to allow "a good point" when delivered by the morally leprous -- I think it's called Coulter-Savage syndrome.

((I do understand your desire that no ephemera be lost, & perhaps eventually collected in some formal manner. I've lately discovered that some fanzine articles in my collection by Big Names have never been collected or posted, & nobody else I contact has had those issues. I've settled for (a) scanning what I have, plus (b) typing them into the PC then (c) saving copies on acid-free paper. It may simply be a writing exercise, or I may have preserved these from oblivion. Who knows? Meantime, it's a wasted-minutes hobby, & harmless. But note that I have posted NONE of it on the Interwebs, despite a Faaaanish desire to both share & kvell naches.))

If Harlan Ellison didn't want his books scanned & e-mailed to everyone in the freakin' world, FOR FREE, I guess he shouldna published, eh? Same effin' argument. Could be both understood & made by an average seven-year-old.

And Ellison tends to swat these fruitflies with a casual word to the Zombie Attorneys locked in that vault behind the fireplace, so I don't see where it's wasting his Golden Years. (Hell, there's probably already a laptop with a button tagged "complaints to YouTube" that fills in the blanks & sends the appropriate word to the appropriate offices & gets appropriate action in a matter of minutes.)

What wastes HE's time is when he contacts the maroons himself, & actually tries to make nice.

You know as well as I that if "David" or "M" had any skin in the writerly game, they'd be Goooogling snippets from their Golden Words O' Wisdom on an hourly basis & sending C&Ds by the virtual armful.

David, M,and Graham (re Fiona)
"M," let me put it this way, perhaps the most vivid explanation I can provide.

You go to round-the-clock dinner party at the home of a respected personage, and are free to discuss anything you wish, as long as you behave yourself. Sometime during the salmon bisque you fart at the dinner table...and not an accidental release of gas of the sort we all expel from time to time, but a massive, maladorous, tuba honk that lasts thirty seconds and peels the paper off the walls. Even that could be forgiven, since intestinal buildup is part of the price of being human, but everybody at the table saw you straining for the preceding thirty seconds, and everybody saw you lean to one side, as you prepared to release the methane reservoir. You could have gone to the bathroom and done this quietly, but no, you deliberately made this a spectacle.

You are asked not to do that again.

Five minutes later: another Hiroshima cloud.

This time people say you're being obnoxious.

You say, "Hey. There's no *law* against it. I'm *allowed* to do this. If you didn't want me to fart you should not have served the beans."

Which leads to the reason why this is the behavior of a dick.

THERE IS A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN WHAT YOU ARE *ALLOWED* TO DO AND WHAT YOU *SHOULD* DO IF YOU HAVE ANY CONSIDERATION FOR OTHER PEOPLE.

I can make armpit noises for hours, without being arrested, but it's pretty fucking rude to sit down on a park bench next to a nursing mother and poot away.

True. I'm *allowed* to do this. God Bless America.

I shouldn't if I have any consideration for other human beings.

I'll let Harlan and Josh argue the legalities and the basis of lawsuit. But, seriously, the guy made a genuinely polite request. He prefers not to be "immortalized" on Youtube. Never mind the reason. He might be, by your lights, an old-fashioned fogey who cannot face the new technological paradigm, but it's still his preference. Acting like this preference gets into *your* face is just as idiotic as it would be, in the armpit noise metaphor, as me explaining at length that armpit noises are a capability we all have and that he should learn to live with it because, hey, it's the nature of the world where he lives, God Bless America. That explanation is, at its core, irrelevant. He has *politely* asked you to refrain. If you have any respect for him at all, why not refrain?

The worst part of this idiocy, by the way, is that it overshadows a far more momentous announcement that deserves far more bandwidth.

Graham: The heartiest of congratulations to you, sir. May Fiona bring you years of joy, and may she face a boundless future, in a world that has embraced its problems and thus provided her with nothing but hope and happiness.

David, I'm speaking as one of the lawyers who lurks here, as Barney mentioned. I've handled hundreds, no, definitely over a thousand cases both as a litigator and a quasi judicial officer. And I'll never quite understand the tack people such as yourself take, though I see it daily. However, it's one that keeps us lawyers in business, and for that I thank you. You had a nice request from the owner of intellectual property to please remove his property from the world wide web - probably something you could accomplish in about 5 minutes at no cost to you or anyone else. Instead, you're choosing to possibly commit yourself to unlimited hours defending a lawsuit in which you may be liable for not only paying your own attorney's fees, but the attorney's fees of the prevailing party (i.e., Harlan's attorney), plus court costs. You could face losing tens of thousands of dollars. Why would you want to do this to yourself when it all could have been resolved for 5 minutes of your time - now. Have fun in court.

David---be cool, take it down.

M,

You dithering nitwit.

The tragedy is, Harlan will eviscerate you with about five minutes of effort on his part. The resulting piece will sing with a music you will never be able to hear. In his canon, it will be a trivial piece, not worth mentioning among all the mighty and timeless works he's done. In the sad sack travesty that is YOUR life, however, it will be the finest work of art you will ever be associated with. It will be better than anything you could ever hope to write, and it will have more lasting value than anything you could ever create, up to and including any hydrocephalic spawn that may result from one of your unfortunate dalliances with members of the opposite sex, should such a connubiation ever actually occur.

Personally, I hope he ignores you, because I'm kinda proud of that paragraph, and it's gonna sting when mine has to take a back seat to his response.

You know, it annoys me that we almost get Harlan to accept that the internet is not necessarily full of self-important dickheads and this comes along.

David. I have to join the chorus and strongly suggest you comply with Harlan's wishes. You discount his opinion and suggest he go do something anatomically impossible for the average man. Not a good idea in the best of circumstances, but if you're going to be an idiot there's little dissuade you -- but let me offer this: even if you rather blindly ignore and discount Harlan's bite, let me assure you that Youtube and Google will also take a very dim view of you and your transgressions. So will NBC.

There's stupid, and then there's REALLY stupid. Getting the undivided attention of all three falls under the latter category.

Do the right thing.

You've been asked nicely to remove one of your videos before you are forced to by Youtube. Not by Harlan, by Youtube. You see, Harlan's issue isn't with you any longer, it's with any organization that would let you keep the video online when notified of the illegality -- in this case Youtube and its parent company Google. Harlan won't send YOU anything, he will send it to Youtube. THEY will then want to talk to YOU. It's the direction called "downhill", and you're unfortunately in a very deep valley.



(Aside to "M": The people in silly little ski masks who chant and dance around when the video cameras are on, are usually shocked to learn that not another living soul really gives a damn about their anonymous opinions. What you do is precisely the same as those tabloid Fox newsfeeds we see from the Middle East, and about as relevant.)

M's remarks
"M" raises some interesting questions. The problem is the mean-spirited manner in which he raises them makes one want to attack "M" rather than answer the questions. I'm going to answer one or two of them and if I get the answers wrong I'm sure Harlan or the two (or more) lawyers who lurk here can chime in.

"M" is right that the broadcast rights are owned by NBC. What rights may have reverted to Tom Snyder I couldn't say. Harlan owns copyright on the story and now that there are also trademark considerations this may have media and broadcast ownership ramifications that need to be defended. Defending a multi-media sort of intellectual property leads to all sorts of unpleasant situations where people who are not lawyers often say "but where's the harm?" The example often used is the daycare center where DISNEY asked that a mural with Mickey on it be removed from an exterior wall of a building in Florida. *IF* that happened it certainly looks ugly to outsiders, but is part of the territory that comes part and parcel with defending intellectual property poachers. Which many posters on YouTube clearly are.

One might ask the opposite question - "who benefits?"

*M* talks about Harlan pissing away his remaining years defending his turf as though he got up this morning planning to spend his day that way. That's like saying that I woke up this morning PLANNING to pick up garbage in my stairwell or taking a gang tag off my garage door. Nobody wants to spend their time this way. *NOBODY*

But - assume the video has "some" value. For instance, I've been making arrangements to have a lot of Harlan audio and video transferred to CD & DVD to be archived at a particular University with the idea of creating a big pile of this sort of material in one place like the Twain California or Twain Elmira papers. My instinct is to preserve first and worry about the various copyrights and trademarks second. But in no sense is my goal or intention to violate either. Why?

Because of the benefit side of the equation. In theory it benefits Susan (or, could benefit Susan someday) and in theory every time you "give it away" you dilute the value. Like last year's quote from this board that Harlan enjoyed, "Exposure is overrated. An artist could die from exposure."

Where does this stop? I don't know. Last year, people were prohibited from doing public readings of James Joyce on Bloomsbury Day because the rights went from public domain back to being held by descendants and there was nothing to be done about it but honor the wishes of the estate.

*My* instinct was that might be going to far. BUT that's easy to say when you're not the person in line for a check.

The short version of all this is that the story is Harlan's and not youtube's and certainly not the person who posted it. Since Harlan has a new collection of readings of his stories coming out, clearly someone outside Casa Ellison has determined these readings of Harlan's have value.

************************************************************

And, for the umpteenth time, I will never understand the need for anonymity while taking these pot shots. All it does is undercut the impulse to take the poster seriously when this stuff comes up. I take these matters very seriously. But when I see "M" and no e-mail and then a few paragraphs of "ring and run" it just makes it that much harder to muster a real response.

Especially on a late Friday night.

- Barney Dannelke

Oy, another slow motion train wreck...
"I fear to watch, yet I cannot turn away!!"
-- Pamela Hayden as the voice of "Milhouse van Houten" in The Simpsons

Youtubed
I really don't see the big deal here. You read something that many people could easily have recorded (in fact some did record obviously) and passed around. If you didn't want copies of the reading going around, WHY THE HELL DID YOU READ IT ON TV?

Are video/dvd-records, or tivo units, or audio cassette recorders or etc as evil and insedious as Youtube? Or is it because Youtube is a new technology, and you the stereotypical old-fogey are just afraid of new technology?

You're at the end of you journey here on Earth, a fairly old guy... and instead of sitting back and enjoying your fans and your success, you've chosen to spend your remaining years suing everyone around you who slightly pisses you off. You are like the remaining Beatles (and their family members) - more famous now for legal muscle than for art.

It's sad. You've become the thing you hate. It's about money, and the control, and the power of tossing your weight around. And the ego boost.

Maybe the Youtube "pirate" should delete the videos. Not because of the legal issues (you don't own the right to the video... a certain tv studio does), but becuase you are best forgotten.

Here's a hypothetical... if a random Joe Blow read the passage in question... would you still have an issue? Or are your words so sacred, no man may utter them?

It's a changing world. You have to adapt. It's astounding someone in your field of work has such a hard time with change. Art is about building relationships with people; not about tightly controling ideas and being a bully.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M50Mjdsh_iw

OH NO!!! ANOTHER VIDEO WITH HARLAN IN IT!!!! EEEGADS!!!!!!

Lame, Harlan... you've gotten really lame. Maybe you always were.

Mr. Rae,

Congratulations on the newest member of your family! I hope this finds you and yours in good health, better spirits, and with more than enough time for love.

Sandra

Harlan, I would like to tell you something. I wasn't going to mention it, but Film Threat printed a story on their front page about it on Wednesday in giddy excitement, so I figure I might as well tell you here.

I just got back from Evanston Women's Hospital. My wife gave birth to our first child, Fiona Leah Rae, on Tuesday at noon; she was 6 pounds 6 ounces and 19 inches long. Why should you care? Well, in a roundabout way you're partly responsible for her being in the world. You see, I met my wife through the Film Threat forums. If I hadn't seen that old issue of FT with your name on it 20 years ago I never would have read it...never have ended up at the FT website...and consequently never met my beautiful wife and had my heartbreakingly gorgeous daughter. So thanks for all the sleepless nights to come, Harlan!

I hope I didn't annoy you too much with that Michael Moore thing. I can be contentious, but it comes from years of autodidacticism and individualistic thinking. But of course I still have a vast reservoir of respect for your good self, and the intelligent, cultured people here.

My wife brings home Fiona Leah Rae from the hospital tomorrow. I am the luckiest, happiest man alive and in love with two amazing females.

That aforementioned Film Threat story (with pix):

http://filmthreat.com/index.php?section=headlines&Id=3736

Thanks for the inadvertent matchmaking 20 years ago, Harlan.

Proud Happy Father G.

David, R.I.P.
I'm reminded of that moment in SIN CITY: After street hooker Becky politely explains to the drunken Jackie Boy and his carload of fellow losers that she's at the end of long night and can't party with them, Jackie points a gun at her and Becky says, with true sadness, "Aw, sugar - you just gone and done the dumbest thing you ever done in your whole LIFE!" Oh well, Darwinism is a bitch.

Who was it that said, "The internet is proof positive against the theory of an infinite number of monkeys banging on keyboards eventually producing Hamlet" or words to that effect?

Seems he/she was right.


Chuck

David,

Oh, David.

I just....

Oh, David.

I called Harlan this afternoon to talk to him about this. I was gonna explain to him that this is a new world, and it's radically changed due to the technology, and that in this new model, posterity comes, in part, from Youtube. Harlan was more open than I'd expected, and really didn't care much at all about the whole thing. He made his concerns known, and politely asked you to respect his wishes, and - let me say, this is more a guess than a conviction - he probably would have left it at that even if you'd done nothing in response and left it up. You got my pal at his most even handed, his sweetest, his most cuddly.

My God, man, you almost got away with pirating Harlan's work and remaining on his good side. A rarified place indeed. Truly enviable. One for the books.

You are the living embodiment of the adage, "He snatched defeat from the jaws of victory."

I must make a note to myself to ask Harlan how you tasted.

Thanks for yet another reminder that the internet is a silly, stupid place, full of silly, stupid people.

RE: YOUtube DAVID'S RESPONSE:

Would someone please explain to David that I begin, quietly, with a polite request...

Would someone please explain to David that when the response is argumentative and tinged with umbrage that "because he can" -- he will, that what follows my polite request is something he truly doesn't want to have to deal with...

Would someone please draw David's attention to my lawsuit against AOL that wound up with their taking down all of Usenet...

Would someone please send the message to David that since I began going after smug, arrogant naifs and pirates, that more than 250 have started out EXACTLY as has David, and that in the end--because I do not go away and just mumble wimpily about the depredations of internet nuisances--249 of the 250 have PAID the lawyers' fees to FORCE them to respond to my polite request...

And would someone suggest to David that if I had the time, resources and determination to sue AOL, Xerox, Paramount and James Cameron (among others) who broached my goodwill and my lifework--and beat them all--that if he thinks his snotty refusal will amount to more than a fart in the wind of my go-at-him, well...

Thank you for passing this along in whatever manner you think will best serve to advise this guy that "nobody throws me my guns and says 'ride.'"

Yr. Pal, Harlan

YouTube
ATC:

You ask why David would do such a dickish deed. I've been thinking about such things a lot as of late. Why do people do such stupid, selfish, short-sighted & self-destructive acts? A possible answer comes from a track on "On The Road With Ellison" vol.3 (I'm sorry, I don't rightfully remember the track listing), Harlan offers the explanation, "It seemed like a good idea at the time.” From my personal experience, I would have to disagree and offer my own insight: "Because I can".

For what that is worth,

Paul Shiple

Finger-Wagging Flatulent Feebs
David,

You can debate whether Harlan's request is silly or not. But openly refusing to delete that section, against the express wishes of the author you profess to be honoring, amounts to being a dick. Why would you harass somebody you supposedly admire, in this manner?

Honestly Confused

The guy who posted the Youtube clips
I corrected the book title.

I won't delete the reading segment. If it was going to be a problem, you shouldn't have read it on the air in the first place. It's a promotional clip, like an actor showing a clip of their movie.

:)

Always the last to know...

Thanks Mark. I feel EVER so much better about myself at having missed the DWST link until now. Yes. Limited attention span and all that -- though I have it on ... let's say "unimpeachable" authority ... that I may have been the only one to have mentioned what a neat-o keen, bitchin', totally cool and appropriate musical dedication to our patron.

(How woefully surprising.)

If you're out there and lurking, or just haven't a clue as to what I'm moaning about: it's a very cool song, good beat (and you can dance to it), about our buddy Harlan.


"And Harlan
Harlan Says
We're not alone"

Diggin it, Erik. Thanks for posting, even if I am so badly late to the party...

http://www.creatvdiff.com/harlan_jazzbutcher.php
________________________________

And speaking o' jazz: Got great news today on Cris' new CD. Details on the forum, but over the last two days several items fell into place and basic tracks will be recorded in the next three weeks.

Release expected by the Christmas rush. Tell your friends.

Harlan,

I sent a message to the person (not Paul) who posted the video on YouTube, instructing them to remove the section of the video containing your reading. Here is the message I sent:

Dear Sir or Madam,

In response to a request from Harlan, could you please remove the section in the Tom Snyder interview video, section 1, where Harlan reads the short story "The Silence." This is copyright protected material.

Also, for the sake of accuracy, please be advised that the correct title of the work is Mind Fields, not Mindfields.

Please refer to the following website:

http://harlanellison.com/heboard/unca.htm

if you would like to see the direct request from Harlan.

Feel free to contact me if you have any questions

PAUL IN AUSTIN

One more thing.

PLEASE correct the title.

The book is

MIND FIELDS

two words, not "Mindfields."

-he

THREE REACH - OUTS TO FRIENDS


JACK: Still here, Big-S! Our work nears resumption. Faith, lad, faith before death.

CINDY: So BOMC gets my order wrong, and sends me a couple of titles I don't want, instead of the McMurtry and a reference title I DID want. So I call 'em and tell 'em this is the fourth time in eleven months that some drone on the packing line fell victim to his/her meds, and I want my two proper titles, and what should I do with the two wrongos? And instead of the usual--"we'll send you a return shipment label, throw 'em in the original box, send 'em back--they were so chagrined, they told me to keep 'em.

So I look at one of them and, well, okay, can't hurt to keep this one; but the OTHER one...? Who the hell do I know who'd even countenance this one. And, unbidden, like the song of the meadowlark, the name C*I*N*D*Y wafted in on the plangent breeze.

Look for this gift of love from me'n'Susan. Mmmmmm-suhMACK, a
big squishy kiss on'ya.

ERIK NELSON: Gimme a call. We got to do that chyron thing.

Flat on his back today, but salient nonetheless,

Yr. Pal, Harlan

PAUL IN AUSTIN

Hmmm.

Well, to be honest with you, kiddo, I despise the entire YOUtube site and concept, and am extremely unsettled at the indictment of ANYTHING (of mine/ANYTHING about me) ensconced
thereat. But since it's a simulacrum of an interview owned
by a broadcast corporation, and not my personal, or copyrighted,
property ... well, it's up to you. But be warned, though IIIII
shan't pursue the matter in any way, these things have an
ineluctable way of coming to the attention of the owners, and
THEY may come after you. The only part I DO insist you delete, is the part you say you like best -- my reading of my story, which IS COPYRIGHT in the name of my Corporation, and if you want to stay cool with me -- are you not aware of my lawsuit against AOL to prevent JUST THIS SORT of thing? -- pull the story reading. Beyond that, kiddo, you are on your own; but it perplexes me how many otherwise keen and sagacious readers of me/my work STILL DON'T GET IT.

I think it was Andre Malraux who said, "Yes, we sent the message; but we have to keep sending it; because no one was listening." Or words to that effect. And the quote is by someone else entirely.

Troubled by all this, Yr. Pal, Harlan

Space Beer
Hi,
I am not much of a drinker and do not drink beer at all but I do think I need to attend the launch of this beer! Just the thought of it made me smile when a friend sent this today. And, I think I need to keep a couple of bottles around for posterity. It will be an excellent beverage to toast my favorite authors with. Harlan - let me know if you would like some and I will pick up a six pack for you too.
-Patricia

http://www.microgravityenterprises.com/CometsTail.htm

Charlie & Barney: Thanks for answering my HERC question. "It is, of course, a trifle, but there is nothing so important as trifles."

Tony Ravenscroft: No, I'm not the professor, nor am I related; but I did attend the U of M and have been asked the question in the past.

Also, I am not the co-author of the MEDICI novels of the mid 1970s.

Further, I am not the author of the much more recent novels WHERE DARKNESS LIVES, CAUSE OF FEAR, et cetera.

And I am not Bob Ross the painter (whom I believe is no longer living).

When TALES FROM THE CRYPT was on HBO years ago, I was quite surprised to see a credit of "Screenplay by Robby Ross" on at least one episode. I'm not he.

In the film WHO IS KILLING THE GREAT CHEFS OF EUROPE, George Segal played a character named Robby Ross. As I recall, Jacqueline Bissett pronounces the name as "Rubby" throughout the film, which has nothing to do with anything, I just wanted to mention it.

So who am I?

"When you have eliminated all which is impossible, then whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth."

The truth is ...

Snyder
Won't be opining about the YouTubery of this segment, but I will say that I still have a VHS of this tacked onto one of my old Babylon 5 tapes. (Hopefully it hasn't become unplayable sitting packed away in my friend's garage the past several months.)

Man was I ever glad I had a tape in the machine for that moment! Not 100% if it's the same interview, I have several...but this may also be the one where in the first airing, our host proffers the assessment that he'd "rather have (his) wrists cut the *long way than ever go on another cruise again...!" to much guffawing from Snyder and a quick cutaway to commercial break, the first advert of which turned out to be for (you guessed it) a cruise line!

Regrettably, I didn't get it taped till repeat broadcast, after which someone at the network had grown some minimal sense in the interim and substituted a different commercial.

Barber,

Sorry buddy, you may in fact be the last one to know about the Jazz Butcher song. Since I was unable to join you in CA for the event, I made sure I viewed whatever goodies Erik was kind enough to place on the Creative Differences website and listened to the song back in April.

All the best to you and Cris,

Mark

Since we're talking TV...
Enjoyed conducting an interview with Harlan last night, so he's certainly still out there as of 6:30ish pm PDT.

Now for transcription and bloggery...though some of the peripheral questions were not quite gotten to (is a MASTERS OF SCIENCE FICTION anthology book in the offing...perhaps it could be incorporated into the DVD package, if a six-story anthology, as it turns out, is a probably not too robust commercial proposition for most publishers...and, btw, will the sale of IDW affect the new reprint line I gather you're editing, Harlan?), to say nothing of the Great or is that utterly trivial mysteries (was that Keefe Braselle referred to in THE GLASS TEAT columns, the guy who got quickly-cancelled shows onto CBS in his case through perhaps desperate skullduggery?).

So, here's a brief and too-hasty rundown of some of the new series offered this summer in the US:

DAMAGES (FX), which began this week, is by the pilot the dullest mix
of REPULSION and every John Grisham young-lawyer-in-peril trope you
didn't really want to see again. It has a mild variation on the idiot
plot: Glenn Close's antagonist is supposed to be a genius by dint of
not being the same degree of idiot everyone else is. Every "twist" so
far is pretty unsurprising, to say the least, and if it doesn't play
out that much of it is the fantasy of the protagonist (the pilot opens
with the young female lawyer at the heart of it fleeing from the
murder-scene of her boyfriend, and jumps back and forth in time), it
will be even goofier than if so. Jeffery Deaver-level self-important
dumb.

BURN NOTICE (USA). The third episode was peachy...nothing
extraordinary in plot, but snappily written and acted, witty and fun,
a fine mix of spy and private eye elements. The fourth episode in
comparison wasn't quite leaden, but had far less wit and grace...so
this one is clearly a bit uneven, but even the lesser episode was
worth seeing...I haven't yet seen 1, 2, nor 5, this week's episode.

MAD MEN (AMC) seems to lay on the smug, self-satisfied misogyny a bit
thick, even for a series set in and around a major Madison Ave ad
agency in 1960, wherein our executive protagonist is getting to
grapple with the eternal and 1960-pertinent Big Issues all in a rush
(adultery, love, family obligation, emerging liberation movements, the
Nixon v. Kennedy campaign, the slow constriction on US cigaret
advertising...). I wasn't around for 1960, and it does in this wise
feel a bit like the segments of Joanna Russ's THE FEMALE MAN wherein
the Great Depression never ended and there was no Rosie the Riveter
movement and its suppression to help nudge the next wave of feminism
along...and interesting enough so far.

TRAVELER (ABC) is, like BURN NOTICE, a latter-day espionage drama,
with all the paranoia and what-is-real/who-can-you-trust games one
expects, albeit with a less light touch and more serious intentions
than BURN. Also a youngish cast, for the most part, largely messed
over by their elders...again, a descendant of Grisham fiction and the
films from it, but also from ALIAS (albeit much less campy and
certainly less shallow and awkwardly-written) and another item that
probably wouldn't exist without the success of the Bourne films. As
undersupported ABC shows go, not as good as DAYBREAK or HELP ME HELP
YOU or SONS & DAUGHTERS...or as MASTERS OF SCIENCE FICTION is likely
to be...but better than almost everything else on ABC.

THE BRONX IS BURNING (ESPN): these Disney sports channels keep wanting
to dabble in drama, and since this summer everyone's doing that, ESPN
wasn't going to be left out...this short-form historical drama series
about the summer in which David Berkowitz was killing on orders from
his dog and Reggie Jackson played his first season with the NY Yankees
is solid, even if the familiar actors attempting to play George
Steinbrenner and Billy Martin and all keep reminding us that they are
familiar actors not quite getting the look or the sound of their models.

SIDE ORDER OF LIFE (Lifetime) and STATE OF MIND (Lifetime). Two
series straight off the Lifetime template--essentially noble, but not
too noble, youngish (but not too young) women protagonists learn that
they have hidden talents and strengths after being shocked out of
their complacency by ugly turns and insufficient men...in SIDE by the
protag's best friend's sudden relapse into a fatal case of cancer,
in MIND by brazen adultery on the part of her husband. Sadly, despite
Lili Taylor being the star of STATE, it's actually SIDE that comes
closer to being tolerably watchable...it's getting harder to hold out
hope that Taylor will seek out projects worthy of her. Perhaps
nobody's offering.

SAVING GRACE (TNT). Only saw a bit of this fantasy-flavored cop
drama's pilot, but what I saw seemed pretty damned twee.
Producer/star Holly Hunter isn't batting as poorly of late as Taylor,
but the same concern can apply. Clearly a show seen as a good fit
with THE CLOSER, which in its third season finally has Kyra Sedgwick
apparently aware of how utterly unconvincing her affected
trying-for-Atlanta, Georgia accent was in the first two
seasons...sounds like she's been working with a coach or perhaps
simply listening to some southeasterners, finally.

HARLAN
You still out there, man?

Yes please ban the old Snyder segment, Heaven forbid someone may watch it and go out and buy Mindfields and actually be exposed to one of the better books by Harlan Ellison and, the art of Jacek Yerka.

Woof woof a goldfish


Harlan, just for your knowledge, i just wanted you to be aware this was online, if it's a problem.

Harlan Ellison on Tomorrow~ MINDFIELDS interview, a 3 parter.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=h1aadbcEW8c


But, if i may: if it isn't a problem, if it doesn't hurt, PLEASE let these Tom Snyder vids stand. For all their bad tv recordedness, this is the heyday of televisionia

For one thing, it's got a reading, live on air (tv reading is my favorite). Two, it verifies the Streisand story from the DWST. But the grandest part (at the end of part 2) is the ne plus ultra of astonishment. I have never seen HE...truly...Speechless. From an amazing act of kindness, the quietest squeaking sounds coming from this of all mouths. PLEASE, let this one stand for interest, posterity, whateverthehell you want to call it, just for the sake of seeing you unmanned and undone.

We'll still love you, natch.
p.

Great Moments in Reality-TV banter
I do not particularly recommend the show, you understand, but I need to report this gem.

The source: Episode 1, Season 2 of WHO WANTS TO BE A SUPERHERO?

Dialogue: Perhaps the most commonsensical of the "heroes" -- a 20-year police officer who seems to take this as a lark -- and a twenty-something woman notable for an (apparently legitimate) dumb blonde demeanor.

HE: I'm twenty years older than you. I have a fifteen year old, an eighteen year old, and a twenty-two year old.

SHE: Wow. (Pause) You mean children?

(No, he meant girlfriends, dumbass.)

Robert Ross: are you any relation to Prof. Bob Ross, U of M? ...or, stranger still, the man himself?

All the rest o' ya: for what it's worth, I'm a second-gen Freberg fan, thanks to me mum; call it around 1969. She also got me started on giant-bug movies, Alfred Hitchcock in all his guises, Harlan Ellison, Bob Newhart, Raymond Chandler, Spike Jones, & EC comics. (Dad was into Bill Cosby, the Kingston Trio, & The Ventures.)

tnx for the reminder of June Foray. For any other "old time radio" & animation fans, here's the "IMDB" of Voice:
http://www.voicechasers.com/index.php

(for any hardcores: how about voice-acting school?:)
http://bangzoomentertainment.com/

The Wikipedia entry for Foray also reminded me that the first voice I learned the name of was Bea Benaderet. I was there for the first episode of "The Beverly Hillbillies," & I said to mom, "hey, isn't Cousin Pearl really Betty Rubble?" She thought it was a stretch, but there was something about her voice. Took me years to track that one down, pre-Internet.

!!!!!!!!!!!!!??????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Fuck me.

Am I the last to catch this?

Erik. I'm dumbfucked. No. I'm "bugfucked". I never noticed this before. And nobody. Nobody. Frank, Rick, Mark, David, Doug, Keith, Harlan??? Josh? Susan?

Fuck me.

http://www.creatvdiff.com/harlan_jazzbutcher.php

This ... blows my mind. Jazz Butcher.

Am I the last to know?

(Fuck me.)

info
Susan- surgery postponed, ekg just semi-funky enough so that surgeon wants to check with cardiologist to ensure safety. no one concerned as of yet. hope package arrives safely. by the by the new postal rates are a stench in the nostrils of god (or am i over reacting ?) . i once could mail christmas gifts to friends in brazil and france and family in italy in july, ask for surface rates and not have to take out a second mortgage.

Dear Pogue:

LATE NEXT WEEK, I'll copy/paste and highlight the sentence in Tollin's post below wherein he says WHEN the cover and ordering info for SHADOW #10 will be available.

But I won't do it until LATE NEXT WEEK.

Look for my post around, oh, the 2nd or 3rd of August.

Ciao!!

Today's Bitching
How do you recognize a TRUE hack?

When you find yerself a director who could actually blow it SO bad with such a great creation and property like the Silver Surfer!

The Shadow May Know, But I Don't
I saw those SHADOW and DOC SAVAGE books at a Borders and wondered about them. I'm glad the topic came up. Now I'm going to have to pick some up. They look like a lot of fun.

CHARLES EDWARD:

Scroll down on this very site, till you hit the post from

ANTHONY TOLLIN.

He's the editor of the DOC SAVAGE and THE SHADOW trade books.
Oh, maybe two-three days ago, he posted a notice of my essay, with some minutiae anent Walter Gibson and me, and he included not only a website to go to, but added a free-shipping offer to any Webderlander. That means you. And the books are spiffy, as well as inexpensive.

Just roll back a day or two. You'll find the link in his post.

Love'n'kisses, Sweetums. (Give our affection to Julieanne.)

Yr. Pal (& ex-neighbor), Harlan

Per your request
Okay, Ellison, per your request, I've come to your little internet clambake here. Went to the site you mentioned could not find any PR or info on #10 with your forward or the Bester story. When's this thing coming out precisely?

Yours in Moloch,

Pogue

The idea that certain political figures in America would take actions in a certain desertified region in order to bring about a very Christian end of the World...yeah, that's about the most frightening thing I can think of. What is wrong with these people?

Evangelicals Supporting Israel
This video from Max Blumenthal is scary on more levels than I can count:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/max-blumenthal/rapture-ready-the-unauth_b_57826.html

Hearing Tom DeLay, one of the most repulsive human being walking the face of the earth, talking about the Rapture and being brought up to heaven is surreal. I do wonder if a person as slimy as he is actually believes what he espouses or if it is done merely to appeal to his constituency?

Sen. Lieberman speaks on the video and cements his place as the one person I would most like to b*tch slap. He compares Pastor Haggee, the leader of this evangelical flock supporting Israel, to Moses, saying that Haggee leads a greater congregation than Moses did. To compare a shyster like Haggee to the greatest prophet of the Jewish people makes me wish we had a Jewish form of excommunication

Brian : I won't say these are quite what you're after from an aesthetic standpoint, but sometimes seeing something odd jogs one out of a rut and into a new direction. May you find something to intrigue and stimulate!

http://mocoloco.com/archives/001532.php#more
Off kilter shelving with integrated chair and table.

http://www.singulier.com/boutique_us/fiche_produit.cfm?type=54&ref=ETAGEREinvisible&code_lg=lg_us&pag=1&num=3&tri=0&marq=0
"Invisible" bookshelf.

http://www.craftster.org/forum/index.php?PHPSESSID=78f6d813efb60d278fe623bde1fd69ae;topic=98846.0
Conversely, a bookshelf made of books.

http://www.instructables.com/id/E4Z8XHRF1A4XXOA/
Bookshelf / hidden door.

http://designondeadline.blogspot.com/2007/06/digital-newsstand_14.html
Refurbishing an old newspaper box to pull and display headlines.

That last project starts to shy towards casemodding (the process of integrating computer parts into more appealing or useful forms than deathless beige boxes). I sometimes think that Harlan would think more kindly of computers if someone would present him with some bit of baroque loveliness. My two favorite examples are :
http://ironwork.jp/monkey_farm/computer/pc2.html

http://www.datamancer.net/projects/engine/engine.htm

The creator from the last link says, "the home computer was denied ... the fleeting, wonderful period right after invention, where it is celebrated and honored by the finest craftsman." A good point, I think.

Susan: RH #42 made its appearance yesterday afternoon. Thanks much.

Keith: You'll probably read this before your e-mail, so thank you, man, for the DVDs (no, guys, it ain't the Amsterdam stuff), which arrived in fine condition.

D.

Susan, received the "A History of Violence" dvd. Thanks again to you and Josh.

David

Dust Bunny Treasures
Due to circumstances I control -- which doesn't mean I'm any less terrified -- we're slogging through the house in preparation for the dreaded MOVING DAY. I asked my husband to check for bits and pieces atop the kitchen cupboards, and he came down with a selection of posterboards dusty enough to warrant a sigh of relief that our asthmatic older son was not around. All but one ended up in the garbage, that sole survivor being the signature sign for our fifth wedding anniversary party. Beneath accumulated years, the faux scroll sported signatures of family and friends, some not quite forgotten, too many of them dead.

Ghosts don't always wear sheets and hide in closets. Sometimes they perch in high corners beneath a dust bunny cloak.

S.

Timing...

Brian -
My wife remarked this last weekend that she'd like to get a design for built-in shelves and cabinets for our tv and home entertainment center. It would replace a window, existing shelves and frame out a raised fireplace.

Let me ask what ideas SHE had for the look and I'll pass 'em along.

SB

Amazingly Unrelated Question to Everyone, Including Harlan
It's like this. I'm looking for a woodworking project, and bookcases are among the top two or three things I have to do. I've been sketching ideas, mostly Deco, Craftsman and Nouveau influenced stuff. But I'm always up for inspiration.

Since we're all readers here, and many of us are design enthusiasts, I'd like to ask y'all a question. Are there any designs for bookcases-- preferably wooden, floor to ceiling bookcases-- that have struck you as truly interesting, dazzling, or spectacularly functional in some nifty way? Any neat use of lighting? Secret Compartments? Added design trim to give it that extra oomph?

Basically, I'm looking for something that'l boot me out of a design rut.

Okay, back to the regular programming. Best comedian on records? There are lots of standups I love, and many of them have done brilliant records of their nightclub performances.

But when it comes to performances designed to be _records_, I'd have to push the Firesign Theater. Intelligent, surreal, wide-ranging, at times profound... Freberg's funny, but the Firesigns were magnificent.

Rabbit Hole membership #
Charlie is correct. I am member #0001. My original membership number (I think) was #0034 and then there was a "favor"* and I asked for this boon in exchange. I asked what became of the original #1 and was given a look that implied that he or she had either missed their dues payment and they were assigned a new number, OR that the answer to that question would also yield the location of the Hoffa remains. It was how you read the look.

*no kneepads or cartons of cigarettes were involved. I'm just lowering the bar to stick with the "gunsel" theme this week.

More recently someones cute little baby was given the H.E.R.C. membership number of #0001a. Susan thought this was a cute thing to do. Others went "awww" and went the big softee. I have explained to Susan what thin ice this baby now skates on.

- Barney

Patientzero, PA.

I agree with Josh, Kane is not film noir but I prefer the term experimental drama or if you like, art-noir.

No matter what dart you throw into the appletree, it sure is one damned masterpiece of a film. But you already knew that.

----------------

TBS recently had on AI; everything I said is right, I really watched closely this time. The ending is dark, not fluff.

Minority Report is still great. My new theory: the old lady helped him get into the temple.

-----------

Josh, take down this title I just came up with. This is good, so get ready:

Faded Green.

Use it, love it, kiss it.

good
THIS IS AN INTRESTING SITE WITH LOT OF ARTICLES TO READ

Robert, If I'm not mistaken, I think Barney is HERC #1, and I'm sure he can speak for himself on this. In the early days on the black board, he used to sign-off with HERC #1, right Barney?

"You can retire anytime, buddy. Your contributions to the arts have earned you that, and a guarantee that you will never be irrelevant."

While we all offer our mutual support, that almost kind of reads, "Thank you. We'll no longer be needing your services"

various and sun-dried

STEVE P.-O. reported that WWN once ran a true news story. Really? That's disgusting! No wonder they collapsed. If you can't depend on a news organization's utter lack of credibility, what CAN you depend on in this world? (As you can tell, I'm all primed for my Catch-22 reading tonight.)

KRISTIN wondered whether back issues of WWN might be scanned and archived anywhere. I wonder if anyone has personally collected all the back issues . . . or if there's a library archive anywhere that dared to keep them?

CHUCK MESSER proudly proclaimed himself a "Freberg Fanatic since 1972." I gotcha beat by 2 years, buddy . . . and I don't yet qualify for MY AARP card.

I treasure Freberg not only for his writing and vocal talents (decent singer, too, at least for satirical purposes!), I also bless him for unleashing Daws Butler (Mr. Yogi Bear, Huckleberry Hound, Quick-Draw McGraw, Elroy Jetson, etc., etc.) and June Foray (Rocky the Flying Squirrel, Natasha Fatale, Nell Fenwick, etc., etc.) into my world. Chuck Jones said, "June Foray is not the female Mel Blanc. Mel Blanc was the male June Foray." I first encountered the Stan Freberg show on the Armed Forces Radio Network out of Frankfurt, circa 1970.

While I was down in LA for the "Dreams With Sharp Teeth" screening in April, I had lunch with voice artist Will Ryan, who had hoped to introduce me to Foray -- 89 years old (she will be 90 in September) and still working! -- but she was unavailable, dammit. Despite all the scratchy-voice crones she voiced, I understand she was quite the dish in her day; you can see it in the 5-year-old photos posted on her IMDb page.

And I believe the correct word is "Consarnit," but I could be wrong. "Cornsarnit" has a nice ring. . . .

I would also appreciate some background on the print versions of THE SHADOW, reprint and otherwise. I am familiar only with the old radio shows and the brooding growl of Orson Welles's voice on them.

A minor HERC-related question ...
"Rabbit Hole" # 42 arrived yesterday. As I read it, I began to wonder ...

My membership number is low, because I signed up to join HERC when it was first created.

So I was wondering: Is there a HERC Member Number One?? First in line? Top of the list?

Once the question formed in my mind, I couldn't stop wondering ... was perhaps Harlan himself counted as member number one? Or the original director of HERC? Or someone on Harlan's staff?

Or was there a regular Joe (or Jane) or just happened to be the very first person to join?

I'm not asking for the name ... I'm just interested in the concept.

It's hard to imagine a more trivial question, I suppose, but this is the kind of question that can keep me up at night.

So if Harlan or Susan cares to take the time to answer, or anyone else who knows, thank you ...

retired and irrelevant
Harlan,

You can retire anytime, buddy. Your contributions to the arts have earned you that, and a guarantee that you will never be irrelevant.

- Keith

Blunderboy strikes again...
Yesterday, while here, I guessed that Nicholas Musaraca photographed MURDER, MY SWEET. Actually, it was one Mr. Harry J. Wild.

I'm too ashamed to make any "wild, man, wild!" puns...

JOSH: Hell, YES, Bill Hicks! Saint Bill is much, much missed. (I speak as one who owns all his original CDs, two of the live performance CDs issued by Rhino, the compendium DVD, the posthumously-released book, and the biography {sadly, the American version, not the allegedly-superior British one}.)

My favorite comedian EVER. ... who was probably more of a social commentator than comedian, but still ...

CLIFF: Awesome sauce.

JOSH AGAIN: Yeah; WWN was always fun, moreso because they didn't put on airs of being anything but an earnestly self-aware pile of hilarious horse puckey. The sad thing is that old comics pros like Paul Kupperberg, Bob Greenberger, and others are now stuck without a paycheck.

DTS: Sorry; nah. About the only "midwest" towns I could possibly live in for any length of time would be Chicago or Austin; I need the kind of town-feel you generally only find in the mid-Atlantic large metropolises ("metropolae"?).
(So where ya going?)

Walter Gibson, Alfred Bester and Harlan ... under the covers
Harlan's new foreword will appear in THE SHADOW Volume 10, along with Walter Gibson's THE CITY OF DOOM and THE FIFTH FACE and Alfred Bester's THE IMMORTAL MURDERER (a 1944 SHADOW radio script).

This isn't the first time that Walter Gibson and Harlan Ellison have been found together under covers ... book and magazine covers, that is.

Harlan and Walter both received cover credit 50 years ago on MYSTERY DIGEST #1 (May 1957). Gibson was on top as befitting his senior status, receiving top billing for "The Strange Case of Washington Irving Bishop" over Jack Finney ("Such Interesting Neighbors"), Henry Slesar ("The Man with Two Faces"), Harlan Ellison ("Stand Still and Die"), Fredric Brown ("I'll Cut Your Throat Again, Kathleen") and others. Pure pulp titles, which reminds me of how much I'd love to hear Harlan's cassette recording about the Dying Gasps of the Pulp Era re-released someday on CD. It's a wonderful recollection of HE's early days as a struggling writer.

I'll post the cover and ordering info for SHADOW #10 on my shadowsanctum.com website late next week when I return to Texas. I plan to offer the August release with free shipping to Webderlanders (but you'll have to tell me you're a visitor to the Art Deco Dining Pavilion to receive the free shipping).

musings
Aw, Chuck. You don't have to be retired, or even that old...you can join the AARP years before you can cash your retirement accounts or get SocSec benefits....cheer up. They can get you a lot of discounts.

I'll miss WWN. I once heard someone call it "the only weekly science fiction magazine." Not to mention their takes on religion (HALF-RAPTURE LEAVES WOMAN STUCK IN THE CEILING) and paleontology (BIG GAME HUNTERS FROM OUTER SPACE KILLED OUR DINOSAURS) and astronomy (TOP SCIENTIST SAYS EARTH IS AN ALIEN BILLIARD BALL...THE MOON WAS THE CUE BALL THAT HIT IT!) Are they going to stay on the Net somewhere? I think those stories should be scanned-in and archived for posterity.

Kristin

Road Runner
Roadrunner's first name is Mimi.

Do you ask why the storm rages? Don't ask why Harlan writes.

Dagnabit.

Well, it's happened. I did not look for this, I did not want this.

Ah did not seek, nor did ah want to accept.

But it finally happened.

IT has arrived.

My AARP membership card. I now have a membership number. Although I see I must reply by September fifth.

It's official. I've been drafted into the Rocking Chair Brigade.

I guess this means I'll have to buy a house now so I can tell kids to get the fuck off my lawn.

I'd better start practicing leaving my turn signal on. I understand there'll be a test.


The Weekly World News defunct? I'll miss headlines like, "PORCUPINE WOMAN STOPS RUNAWAY TRUCK -- WITH HER HEAD!!" Now THAT'S journalism.

And I've been a Freberg Fanatic since 1972. His first job as a teenager was to provide voices along side Mel Blanc. Remember the two mice who were oh, so polite to each other?

"After you, my friend. "
Oh, no, after YOU." "
I beg to differ good sir..." etc.

One of those two mice was this Freberg kid. Imagine writing episodes of the puppet show, TIME FOR BEANY in the back of someone else's convertible. And the owner showing up and yelling, "WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU GUYS DOING IN MY CAR?"

Funny, Bob Clampett swore he knew the guy. Now, that kind of writing took balls.


Practicing to say, "Carnsarnit",

Chuck

Writers: Keep Your Minds Agile!
What is the Road Runner's first name?



-Keith

Sex, Rivers and Rabbit holes
(Hmmm. It just occured to me that all of the above could be symbolically linked...)
ALEX JAY: You sound like you might fit in well here in the Midwest -- I'm leaving soon, so there's an opening...so to speak (insert wink where needed).
HARLAN: !!! Damn, son! You recorded "Darkness Falls On the River" for the next "Edge in My Voice" collection! I Know it was probably because of the length, but I've always loved that piece -- it's one of your most poetic. (Hell, I've always loved the collection, and still can't figure out why more reviewers didn't notice it and more award committees didn't short list it -- it's one of your top five collections).
SUSAN: Oops. I didn't know that I had one more issue left. In that case, the check ISN'T in the mail. I'll wait till I reach OZ, and have a new address, before re-enlisting in the Harlan Ellison O-WEE-OH Corps.

Give my love to mom,
DTS

Retired and Irrelevant? Hopefully never!

At 5 am, perhaps "tired, yet still relevant".
-----
One of my favorite Monty Python bits is the spam bit. And speaking of spam, I recently found myself offering to sell myself discount watches. Somebody used my email address to send me an email from myself. To think that this is the site where they found my address would be a stretch because I use the same address in at least 30 different places.

The weed of crime bears bitter fruit. Crime does not pay.
Holy Mackinac! There's a SHADOW reprint series??? How come nobody told me?????

All right, serious question. Just found the web site for the reprints and this poor working stiff can't afford to buy the whole series. Obviously I'm going to be there for #10, but of those published so far, is there a consensus on which ones might be considered the best?

Who knows what evil lurks in the hearts of men?

A NEW PIECE BY HARLAN

At five ayem this morn I crawled into bed after completing "For Every Action..." a new 1800 word introduction to issue #10 of the marvelous Tony Tollin-produced (2 "novels" each issue) reprint series of THE SHADOW. I am a stone Shadow wonk, and to have been named (in Phil Farmer's genealogical chart of Doc Savage's bloodline) the nephew of The Shadow, it was a thrill to become a minor footnote in the canon.

This is an advisement for those who continue to insist I'm "retired" or "irrelevant."

Yr. Pal, Harlan

Jeff R.: Thanks for the correction. I was--believe it or not-- thinking of Greg Toland's work on John Ford's 'Mary of Scotland,' which was earlier and did share many visual similarities with Kane. This film is clearly not Film Noir, and I have no idea how I conflated it with Dmytryk's film in my disorderly memory.

Josh: I agree with your overall point. In that muddled post of mine, I was trying to make the point that Kane is clearly much larger and greater than a mere Film Noir. I would absolutely not limit the film with such a label. My point was that reporter Thompson's quest for the truth is the "Noir-ish" element of the film, not its biopic elements, nor its story about a millionaire.

Steve Dooner

Hammond
Relax. Breathe. Inhale -- exhale -- inhale -- exhale.

Feel better? Maybe a bit lightheaded, but that will pass.

First, ANY place you post using an email address on the web will get "noticed". I use three different addresses, and two of the three are regularly spammed (though most is blocked). The third uses an industrial strength spam control that keeps it virtually unspammed, regardless.

Secondly, if you have issues with spam, let's discuss using "Hotmail" for a second. (Or, maybe not. You probably already know that's a major culprit right there.)

Thirdly, never, ever be afraid of sharing ideas or conversations because you're afraid you might get a few easily deleted messages in your inbox.

Spam is bad. Spam is reprehensible. Spam is no good. Spam happens.

In sincerest concern for your blood pressure,

Steve B

(Trust me. I'm an internet professional. We're here to help.)

WARNING TO ALL POTENTIAL AND UNSUSPECTING POSTERS.

*Do NOT* I warn Do NOT POST YOUR POSTS ON THIS SCUM SITE.
(UNLESS YOU WANT TO TO BE SPAMMED.)
REPORT ALL - I SAY ALL - EMAILERS TO POLICE.

Buz & Tod on the road again -- in your DVD player!
Looks like ROUTE 66 is *finally* making its way onto DVD. Season 1 is due in October. In theory, if sales are good, we oughtta be getting HE's episode from Season 3 in the near future!

http://www.tvshowsondvd.com/newsitem.cfm?NewsID=7713

About the Weekly World News, I recall the day I saw an actual real news story in it! A college woman fell from the 20th floor of her dorm and survived, with just minor (relatively) injuries. She was wheelchaired for a month or three, but then back on her feet.

I wouldn't have believed it if I didn't know the woman, as it happened at my school. Bizarre, that. My reality came crashing down at finding a true tale in the News. It will be missed.

SJPO

b&n
Susan-got books, will post tonight. Harlan-i'm sure you know this but if not, darryl brock wrote a sequel to if i never... titled 2 in the field. will read during recovery. as ever, obediently yours....

I know I'm breaking the one a day rule, but I just learned some very, very sad news.

The Weekly World News is done. Finito. Over.

http://www.mediabistro.com/fishbowlny/newspapers/weekly_world_news_killed_by_aliens_zombie_elvis_declining_circulation_63587.asp

This is a sad day for American journalism. I can only hope Fox News steps up and fulfills their destiny by taking over (Hell, Bill O'Reilly's already become Ed Anger, and I suspect Neal Cavuto IS Bat Boy, so it won't take much.)

Alex:
Yes, Harlan is writing an intro to YR. PAL, HARLAN. There will be a signed/numbered edition of this book that we plan to make available to HERC members first, and at a discounted price.

One of the thoughts that's solidified in my addled pate during this noir discussion, noir more of a narrative genre than a stylistic one. While there are visual quirks that are easily idenitifiable (and parodied), they're not essential - You can make a noir in color. You can make one that's brightly lit. You can make one without flashbacks, or voice over. But it's the narrative that always gives it away.

It's the narrative conventions that make something a noir. I used to say, if it could serialized in Black Mask magazine, it's noir, but then I learned that Black Mask used to run horror stories and romances, so that kinda blew that one. But you know what I mean.

On comedy - Bill Hicks! Of course.

Hi HArlan & Susan,

How about a screening of the documentary and a public appearance in Atlanta? Please!

Jim & Cindy Argendeli

Susan, received RH#42 yesterday - another outstanding edition!!

Thanks to you and Josh in re to the HERC drawing. I think I read the blurb about 3 times before realizing it was me who won the drawing.

David

Sturgeon typos
Hey, Harlan:

Here's what I found:

page XV, second to last paragraph: "...I don't think it's every happened..." - should be "ever happened"

page XIX, second to last paragraph: "...Flaubert put is much more..." - should be "put it much more"

I loved the piece. You define it perfectly near the end where you say you wrote it for Ted himself to read. What I love most about your writing is the unabashed honesty, the flaming truth that screams from your words as if you were sitting next to me, shouting them into my ear. Words do not get in the way of the smallest intonation of your emotions; everything you want the reader to feel is directly transmitted from page to brain.

This piece is no different. I saw and heard and listened to Sturgeon in Minneapolis way back when but I'm not sure if I met him or not. (Kinda like when I could have walked up to you in Atlanta but didn't.) The experiences that weekend gave me some sense of the man, I thought, and everything you wrote has brought back that same sense of emotion. I will always remember hearing him read "The Graveyard Reader" and "Miss Proozy's Pot" and now I think those reminiscences have been affirmed by your introduction.

I'll read it again.

Welles, Lederer and Comedy
Welles and Charles Lederer, were not only friends they were connected by the fact that Welles' first wife Virginia married Lederer. Lederer was given a copy of the script by Herman Mankiwicz, whose self destructive tendencies were as famous as his gambling habit. Lederer, read it but did not pass it on to his aunt (According to Lederer) but word of its content still might have gotten out. It was the gossip mongers of Parson and Hooper who started the wheels rolling that would run over KANE keeping it from finding any kind of success.

As for comedy, I love all those that were mentioned but I am thinking of comedians who use the record as their chosen form rather then stand ups whose acts were recorded and released. Think of them as the offsprint of the great radio comedians of Fred Allen, Jack Benny or if you are in the UK THE GOONS.

RICK OLLERMAN:

Haven't received my contributors' copies yet. Neither has Noel Sturgeon. Two typos?!? Well, yes, dammit apprise me of them, please. Sharon, I, Noel and, presumably a proofreader at North Atlantic Press, went over that mss. at least seven (7) times. No one was cavalier with it, so I am at 6s&7s wondering what happened, and at what station of the cross the glitches were introduced, and who is responsible. There's nothing much I can do to rectify, but at least if you give me chapter and verse, I can mention it in the right places, and hope someone'll hear me.

Either way, thanks for the head's-up. Hope you like the piece.

Yr. pal, Harlan

Notes
STEVE DOONER: Edward Dmytryk didn't direct MURDER, MY SWEET until three years after Welles did KANE. Nor did Toland photograph it. Without looking it up, I'd GUESS that Nicholas Musaraca shot it. He has quite a reputation for film noir, did some of the Lewtons, was under contract to RKO at the time.

ROB: Ty Hardin was briefly considered to play Batman in the 1960s TV series!

Hee
Somebody beat me to the observation that the Orson Welles Batman story is an internet hoax, but re Anthony Tollin's report of an Orson Welles Shadow movie: exactly how ironic would it have been, for his career to be rescued by a nephew of Marion Davies?

Kane Origins
ROB:

Where did you come by the information on THE POWER AND THE GLORY? The only info I have on it comes from the (doubtless flawed) Bogdanovich book THIS IS ORSON WELLES. The passage reads:

*****
BOGDANOVICH: There's a film written by Preston Sturges called "The Power and the Glory" which has been said to have influenced you in the flashback style of "Kane". Is that true?

WELLES: No. I never saw it. I've heard that it has strong similarities; it's one of those coincidences. I'm a great fan of Sturges and I'm grateful I didn't see it. He never accused me of it - we were great chums - but I just never saw it. I saw only his comedies. But I would be honored to lift anything from Sturges, because I have very high admiration for him.
******

In the book Welles does talk about running "Stagecoach" over and over again, finding it a "perfect textbook" on how to make a film.

JOSH: If ever you happened to take in a showing of Rocky Horror at the TLA and you noticed that the girl performing the before-the-screen role of Columbia could actually tap-dance ... well, that was my sister.

TONY I.: Where was Harlan when Carella, Meyer, Hawes, et alia needed him? Um, Cleveland, I should think.

ON THE SUBJECT OF "GUNSEL": I have to think that "gunsel"-as-"gunhawk", though originally born from misunderstanding, has become so prevalent that it falls under the categories of accepted usage and linguistic drift. (Though I actually *did* know the original meaning)
This isn't to say that linguistic abortions such as the American usage of "Let's table this" for "Let's take it OFF the table" in exact opposition to the expression's actual meaning, or thinking that "inflammable" means "won't burn" shouldn't be muredered in their sleep.
(You could say that the "savage BEAST" rather than "savage BREAST" bit would also be acceptable linguistic drift, were it not for the fact that it's derived from a quotation.)

DTS: You just don't GET it.

Sex is filthy, evil, obscene, verboten, wrong, and just plain DUURRRR-TEE. It's bad, it's sick, it's terrible, and I hope to Holy God Above that my kids never find out that it's how they got here.

(The best example I can think of for this {coitally-interfaced}-up mindset is a letter to the editor to the Philadelphia Inquirer some months back: The paper recently started running a column called "Carnal Knowledge", a regular feature about sex. And when I say "sex", I mean that writer faye Flam pens essays about mitosis, sexual selection, gender issues, and such; rarely about sexuality.

Nevertheless, this prompted at least one mother to bloviate how a family newspaper should not, never, no, huh-uh, ever have such a horrible issue tackled within its pages--and CERTAINLY not on the front page of the Arts & Entertainment/Life section! She despaired that she might one day find her children--whom, to her credit, she encouraged to read the news--READING about such things. Quel horreur! Quel dommage! (Quel merde des taureaux.)

Now, as for the REST of the paper, that was just peach-dandy.

And she was right. I mean, imagine how warped her children would conceivably become if, whilst perusing the paper, they were interrupted in their reading about war, murder, corruption, rape, genocide, pollution, corruption, ethnic cleansing, racism, gangbangers, organized crime, sexism, intolerance, the continued existence of Paris Hilton, and the woeful state of Philadelphia sports teams, by something as perniciously evil as -gulp!- the reproductive habits of amoebae!)

SUSAN: Got my Rabbit Hole today (Monday); haven't yet had the joy of perusal.
(Would that I could up your Alex quotient at the Cleveland do, but that's about as possible as the Leader of the Free World {kaff!} receiving a Mensa application.)

BARNEY or CLIFF: Will you be soliciting an introduction from Harlan?

MARK SPIELLER: Regarding LEARNING TO KILL, I hate to say I didn't get through the whole thing, simply because it was nowhere near the level of craft I had come to expect from his work. True, the stories weren't BAD, per se ... it's just that they weren't McBain-level.
As for Best Comedian on Records, my money's on Lord Buckley. (But you didn't even allow room for Bruce, Sahl, Winters, Newhart, Carlin, Connolly, Pryor ...)

The final zinger on the misunderstood meaning of "gunsel" is that, according to Hammett's pulp contemporary Erle Stanley Gardner, Hammett put it in _expecting_ it to be misinterpreted. Joseph Shaw, the editor of _Black Mask_ magazine, had previously censored an expletive from one of Hammett's stories and given Hammett a dressing-down for using unprintable expressions. When "The Maltese Falcon" was serialized in _Black Mask_, Hammett decided to run a gag on Shaw with two pieces of slang he knew and Shaw didn't. When Spade first confronts Wilmer Cook, he asks the kid "How long have you been off the gooseberry lay?". A bit later comes the "gunsel" line.

The first is a reference to the petty racket of stealing clothing off of washlines and reselling it. The second Harlan has explicated quite thoroughly. Shaw reportedly deleted the first as something obscene (though it does appear in the novel in book form) and left "gunsel" alone, thus being the first in a very long line to get it wrong...exactly as Hammett expected. (Gardner never mentions whether Hammett let Shaw in on it after publication.)

And speaking of the genre, some here might want to know that the excellent _Philip Marlowe_ TV series (the late '80s Showtime/Channel 4 co-production starring Powers Boothe) has just now hit the DVD racks.

Oh, and a warning about the DVD someone spotted of "An Occurrence At Owl Creek Bridge": apparently what's on the disc is the edited version used on _The Twilight Zone_, with Serling's intro and voice-over tag clumsily removed. (Same version that turned up fairly regularly from "public domain" video houses in the late '80s, and probably just as crappy in quality as it was then.)

Susan,

I received my Rabbit Hole today. Loved all the little tidbits. Thank you for doing this, Susan. It makes this whole Webderland thing a little more fun.

Chuck

Typos
Harlan:

I got my copy of the new Sturgeon collection today and I posted a message in the forum that I found two typos in the first 22 pages of your intro. Jan suggested I note them and share them with you so you could fire them back to the publisher.

You want I should do this? Or are you aware of these?

Josh pretty much got this one down

Genres and sub-genres - I think - were created in part to distinguish the forms and give clarity to the objective in each. Noir requires seedy dark motives, a criminal, a "broad", murder, the dank squalor existence, etc.

Two things about Kane I learned only recently: the Welles examined John Ford's STAGECOACH closely while conceiving and planning the shots he'd use and the reasons for using them; and he examined THE POWER AND THE GLORY, a 1933 film with Spencer Tracy written by Preston Sturges, whereby he formulated the story structure for Kane.

**Two corrections on an earlier post:

I meant HE WALKED BY NIGHT not He Walks By Night (sounds like a Mummy sequel), and PANIC IN THE STREETS not Panic In The City.

***Recent discoveries:

I rented Fuller's PICKUP ON SOUTH STREET, ran it several times and grew quickly addicted. INDIRECTLY, I learned of Jeanne Eagels, and actress of the silents who fell to drugs and alcohol due in part to a studio system that manipulated her as it did later to Judy Garland, and died in 1929 at a young age. She was erratic and difficult...something I remember my own mother for. It's a dark story I learned Fuller had covered in his newspaper days. I'd never heard of her.

****Here's another good one: I was reading about one of those early 1960's Beach Party Bingo type flicks; this one starred a pre-Wild Wild West Robert Conrad, and it was PALM SPRINGS WEEKEND. Well, it co-starred this guy named Ty Hardin. Seemed innocent enough in a boyish way. He later became an anti-Semitic Right Wing nut case; an evangelistic preacher who would come to lead a group of fanatics in the 70's called the Arizona Patriots. He and his heel-clickin' compatriots sought - ever in the BOWLING FOR COLUMBINE spirit - to overthrow government, stockpile weapons and bait government officials.

Then Hardin gets into this dispute with the IRS, and runs a tax protest school called the Common Law Institute, whose packet of materials included a "Patriot Handbook" containing "tested cases and methods to maintain good personal freedom." In 1983 and 1984, Hardin edited The Arizona Patriot, a monthly journal that printed diatribes against government officials, calls for "Christian Patriots" to band together, and reprints of articles from anti-Semitic publications.

Following a two-year FBI undercover probe, Federal agents raided a Patriot camp in 1986, and confiscated a hoard of weapons and publications from Aryan Nation groups!

Ty Hardin left Arizona, and the group soon ceased to function.

After reading that I could only think, "well you're talking about someone connected with Robert Conrad. What else could you expect!"

Orson Welles' unfilmed SHADOW film
Brad wrote: "Orson Welles never planned to make a Batman film! This rumor derives from an internet hoax, as does the one about Welles making an unfinished film of Ian Fleming's MOONRAKER."

But Orson Welles did want to direct a film version of THE SHADOW in the mid-1940s, and had Charles Lederer (Marion Davies' nephew and the stepfather of Orson's firstborn daughter) write a screenplay. Welles had hoped that a SHADOW movie would be a commercial success and might rekindle his Hollywood career. After the screenplay was completed, Orson discovered that the film rights to THE SHADOW were locked up because of the Monogram low-budget B films, and he was unable to move forward with the project. Truly unfortunate, considering what an Orson Welles noir version of THE SHADOW would have looked like ... and considering that THE SHADOW was the highest-rated daytime radio series at the time, it very well might have been a commercial success and restarted his Hollywood career in a way that THE STRANGER and THE LADY FROM SHANGHAI did not.

"Gunsel"
HE writes:

"The word "gunsel" does not AT ALL mean what you think it means.
And is NOT, NO WAY, NOHOW, NEVER EVER, a synonym for

side-boy
pistolero
thug
knee-breaker
puncher
hitter
assassin."

Uh, well ... it wasn't, and shouldn't be. But thanks to Bogart's wonderful delivery, the influence of John Huston's film version of THE MALTESE FALCON and the changing/evolving nature of language, that's pretty much exactly what it does mean today.

According to WEBSTER'S NEW UNIVERSAL UNABRIDGED DICTIONARY (2001 edition), the current definition of "gunsel" is:

"n. Slang. 1) a criminal armed with a gun. 2. a catamite (1910-15; prob. Yiddish genzel gosling, MHG gensel {dim. of gans goose); sense of def. 1. by influence of GUN ..."

At the time Hammett wrote THE MALTESE FALCON, the word described a boyish homosexual in the company of an older man. As I recall, the implication was that Wilmer was Gutman's boy-toy. But because of decades of misunderstanding and misuse of the term, it now has acquired that misunderstanding as its primary definition.

Alan Coil wrote: "If Orson Welles had produced his proposed Batman film, which was to have been in B&W, would it have qualified as film noir? It would have had criminals, detective work, violence, guns, etc."

Orson Welles never planned to make a Batman film! This rumor derives from an internet hoax, as does the one about Welles making an unfinished film of Ian Fleming's MOONRAKER.

Rabbit Hole
I received my copy of Rabbit Hole on Saturday and saw the notice about Yr. Pal, Harlan. Barney, you are magnificent, and Cliff, so are you. This is an excellent idea. Thank you.

debbie

Susan: I got my Rabbit Hole today. Thanks for everything. It looks like it's my time to renew as well.

Harlan: The new Suydam cover for Shatterday is wild! I really dig it. Granted, the R.H. is monochrome, but the image looks like the love child of Rene Magritte and Francis Bacon.

McBain Books
I cam to the McBain books via Pennysaver Books, in Pacific Beach California who had a shelf full at 35 cents a copy. Being a nearly broke college student with a huge jones for reading matter, these seem to be a great answer to my habit and they came with the nifty covers of vintage paperback houses like Permabooks and Signet.

Shortly after, I found out that I have read McBain under his mainstream name Evan Hunter, when my folks gave me a copy of SONS to read. If you are looking for some of his noncrimous works that would be a great place to start.

However if its his mean street you like I suggest a new collection called LEARNING TO KILL, which covers the mystery stories he wrote during his first year and half while working at the Scott Meredith Agency. A more vintage collection would the McBain Brief, which also collects some of his short stories together.

I know that there was a early TV version of the 87th Precint books---which I have a vague memory of being like Dragnet, but almost every cop show in my black and white youth was like Dragnet. But I do think that HILL STREET BLUES, and those that have followed in its wake both on the big, small, and cable screen should give a tap or two of the nightstick against the police call box for what McBain did for the police procedural.

As for KANE being noir-noirsh, outside of its looks, it does not have the nilistic, doomed, violent, undertones that Noir has as part of its underpinigs.

Look at DOA, DETOUR, THE POSTMAN ALWAYS RINGS TWICE, there is a darkness and everyone is doomed in one fashion or another because of a inevitable fate bearing down on them. KANE's greatest victim is himself and his wife, and it maybe infered that Susan Kane has placed herself partly on the bottle fed road to oblivion we see her on.

For our next string, I suggest, BEST COMEDIAN ON RECORDS: Alan Sherman VS Stan Freberg VS The Firesign Theater. May the best shtick win.

Steve and onlookers:
As an editor, I search for two types of projects: those that will make money and those that I’d personally like to read. In the case of YR. PAL, HARLAN, I get both. While the volume may not outsell the most recent Harry Potter installment, our conservative P&L analysis--which is based on a keen awareness of market trends--certainly shows this book is a good investment for IDW Publishing. Moreover, had another publisher brought it out first, I’d have been eager to buy the book and read it. Perhaps twice. Reading Harlan is fun.

A year or two ago, when Barney generously mentioned this idea (his idea, not Harlan’s), I turned green with envy. What a splendid project! I’m just grateful I beat another publisher to it.

As for Barney’s assertion, "anyone on ANY board who wants to level some sort of charge against Harlan..." forming two lines will be unnecessary. They can come directly to me. Preferably in person. I’ll be at ComicCon in San Diego all week hoping to be that lucky. But I won’t leave enough of them for Barney to grease his bicycle gears with. I’m not as generous as Barney.

If Orson Welles had produced his proposed Batman film, which was to have been in B&W, would it have qualified as film noir? It would have had criminals, detective work, violence, guns, etc.

Steve,

Ay yi yi. I'll TRY to make this my last comment on the subject - the protaganist of Kane is not the reporter. It's Kane.

Honestly, I've lived in this genre for decades, and while Kane does come up from time to time as a stylistic progenitor of the genre, I've never heard anyone make the case that it's an actual part of it. It simply isn't. Like I said, narratively, it's not even close. There's all sorts of gray areas with noir (nyuck nyuck), but the genre doesn't have room for biopics. It's sort of like saying the first twelve minutes of Wizard Of Oz are noir because they're black and white. Well.... no. Where's the seedy crime? Where's the femme fatale? Where's the dark past that won't stay buried? (Sleds don't count, besides, it DOES stay buried).

And yes, to Ellis, History has a solid foothold in the genre. Used to tickle me no end when critics would pick up the whiff of Out Of The Past and others in their reviews of it. It was an attempt to marry noir with the western, basically. I like to think we came close to getting it right...

JOSH: The noir-ish protagonist of Citizen Kane is not a millionaire, but an investigative journalist named Thompson. He is pursuing a mystery, he is looking into the darker and seamier side of American aristocracy and he is ultimately confounded by the darkness he is trying to penetrate. Sounds like Film noir to me.

Just as Marlowe is a riff on Marlow from 'Heart of Darkness,' so most foundational noir stories follow the structure of Conrad's novel (Interestingly, Welles had wanted to shoot 'Heart of Darkness' before Kane. He was also intrigued by first person point-of-view and wished to bring it to cinema, way before Montgomery's 'Lady in the Water').

While Kane is, of course, much more than a film noir, I would think that you would make a fatal error in not including it in the "Set of all Film Noir" (apologies to Betrand Russell). It can be on a lot of other lists too.

Greg Toland had just finished shooting "Murder My Sweet" with Dmytryk a few months before; Orson also had a well-known fondness for detective fiction and pulp novels and helped define radio detective fiction; Mankiewicz knew the genre well; and the structure of the narrative and the chiaruscuro lighting of Kane even became essential to Noir story-telling for generations.

When we make up these categories, how slavish should we be about our definitions? Should we include 'Lady from Shanghai,' 'The Stranger,' 'Touch of Evil' and Reed's 'The Third Man' as classic Film Noir while ignoring the obvious 500 pound gorilla in the room?

Steve Dooner

SUSAN, her foot fetish, and The Rabbit Hole
SUSAN: Doesn't that time -- when Harlan was in the bathroom, combing his hair, shaving his back hair -- that I satisfied your foot fetish count for free issues of Rabbit Hole?
No? Sheesh, okay, okay: the check is in the mail!
-Love,
Dorman (toe-sucker extraordinare)

Laurie:

Thank you for the poem.

Susan & Harlan

Susan, thanks for the latest RH. By the way, it's either Pavilion or Pavillon, never Pavillion. Heehee. :-)

Sturgeon Vol. 11 was released on the 17th, according to amazon.

Harlan, among the greatest news was to read about your collaboration with a certain publisher as an editor. Judging from the first title that's in the works, this will not be just another line of essential SF that includes the usual suspects which are in print anyway.

Is the title of the line set in stone? Are they using your expertise to their best advantage? Because, you see, I wonder if under that title the line can reasonably exclude any of the books that would normally be included. They would have to put out fifty books before getting around to some of your personal favorites, which are more likely to be out of print than the classics. I would hate for the publishers and audiences to complain about you picking the occasional rare and undiscovered (but nevertheless essential) book for the line, which is what I think you will and absolutely should do. My suggestion to you and the publisher is that at least your name be part of the title.

Either way, looking forward to updates about this project.

How about what we might call video (TV) noir?
Certain episodes of THE FUGITIVE, virtually every segment of THE UNTOUCHABLES, "The Four of Us Are Dying" from the original TWILIGHT ZONE, even (believe it or not) some first season black and white episodes of ADVENTURES OF SUPERMAN. PETER GUNN. Some black and white DRAGNETs. JOHNNY STACCATO.

What else?

Advice for the Enemy
B The Enemy

I read the blog post you asked us to and have one suggestion for you. Just keep on writing.

I know from having grown up in a house full of people just like that; that you'll never change their minds, no matter what you say.

But, I am getting ready to put up a comment in your defense, not that you need it, but it would seem to put things in a proper balance. I can't stand idiots like that, and for most of my growing up years I had one for a mother!

And just look at it as a bunch of idiots paranoid about their parenting skills. If they taught their children to stay away from that stuff, they probablly will. Untill they become Teens, and we all know what a group of non conforming conformists that group is....

Anyways Keep up the good fight.

Lori

Would History of Violence qualify as a modern day noir?

Help from my fellow Ellison fans
Hi guys, I could use a little help here. I recently wrote about the Literati and Christian wacko's attacking Harry Potter and popular fiction at my site, and one of the frigging people I wrote about actually commented. He must google himself constantly, because I don't have that big of a site. Anyway, before the crazy right wingers come out of the woodwork, I'd like to bury this asshole. Any help would be appreciated.
(I did use good Harlan's name, so it's not entirely unrelated. Sorry to drag you into this, HE, but what the hell...)

www.TheEnemyBlog.com

My second tour with the 87th
Adam:

This is my second complete tour with the 87th. I was introduced to the books by Don McGregor circa 1973 in the Marvel Comics bullpen.

Don used to read out loud from them during our lunch breaks. He really sold those books and I thank him for the introduction at least once a year.

Tony

USA

:: This was not Harlan's idea.


Anyone who knows anything about Ellison and has half a brain would have realized this immediately.

Let the unwashed hordes yammer.

Syncronicity lives

Today is Raymond Chandler's birthday.

That man wrote stories the way Joe Louis fought the first three rounds of a heavyweight bout.

Move it.

*** Steve *** Thank you. I've been sitting on my hands since that press release went up on Heidi's board last week but the longer I do the more enamel I take off my teeth. So I'm just going to say this once here - and it either "gets around" or it doesn't.

This was not Harlan's idea.

It is what it is. A collection of some amusing ephemera. I have a lot more to say about WHAT EXACTLY it is, and WHY it is what it is - and what forms it should ultimately take - BUT, to anyone on ANY board who wants to level some sort of charge against Harlan plumbing any depths of his own Very Deep barrel - they can form two lines. One in front of me and the other in front of Clifford Meth. One ticket buys a turn in each line. WE thought it was a good idea. Even a Great idea. Harlan just ALLOWED us to go forward - which I am Very Happy about. But as for Harlan "cobbling this up" or pimping in it anyway. Nope. All ass backwards on that front is what I'm saying.

As for the "argument" of it's worth... I'm pacing myself. May 2008 is a long time from now.

- Barney

Thanks everyone for your support regarding the Rabbit Hole.

Hope to see some of you on Aug 9th and on Sept 21st (thanks Alex).

Sorry, DTS--It's time for renewal. You knew this day would come.

Rob--A whole bunch of Dr. Whos arrived--many thanks. Anything I can get you this end? Just ask.

See you at the Aero.

With kind regards--Susan

JOSH - I concede the point. Plenty of ther good examples I shoulda used.
______________________________

SANDRA - Thank you. The reviewer is a well-known jerk who is deluded in his own skills, so I take it with a grain of salt. I'm glad you liked the shot. So, evidently, did the other three reviewers. Thanks for checking it out.
______________________________

ORPHEUS - Farley Nelson wrote it, but generously allowed Bartizan Mole to take the credit.
______________________________

METH AND DANNELKE - Terrific idea for a book. (Of course, already the detractors are weighing in -- under the mistaken assumption that Harlan's at-times extensive observations aren't "real writing". Naturally, these are probably the same folks who loved David Gerrold's 'Solomon Short' and Robert Heinlein's 'Lazarus Long' writings...) Looking forward to it.
______________________________

JASMINE - (Speaking strictly for myself. Rick and Harlan are the lone true authorities for your answers)

1. What's the actual purpose of this site
THERE'S A PURPOSE TO THIS SITE? Who knew????

2. I notice there's a bit about prison. How would you react to spending life in the nick for a crime you didn't commit?
VERY, VERY ANNOYED. And I'd probably find a way to blame society for my incarceration.

3. Anyone come across any dissertations/theses on HBO's 'Oz'?
Can't help with this. Don't pay for HBO, never watched an episode and so would have little use for reading about it.
_______________________________

Went to a "Vegas"-themed birthday party for my niece Saturday afternoon. Got roped into being the croupier for roulette, meaning that I got to slap a few hands and generally talk to the players. One woman -- maybe 29-ish -- had purchased the new HARRY POTTER book at midnight, read for four hours, then completed it by 6pm Saurday evening.

(Oh...My...God!)

Rabbit Hole
Susan: the Rabbit Hole has reached Cleveland. Thanks, as always. I just had a chat with Mr Antonucci, and we'll put notices of both the Santa Monica and Cleveland showings on Netscape. And you best believe I'll be in attendance.

Addendum
Whoops. I just caught the re in "re-reading."

Well, I can envy that, too.

Ah, Tony
Tony Isabella: I envy you your first tour of the 87th. You have no idea what treasures are in store. SADIE WHEN SHE DIED, HE WHO HESITATES, AX, GHOSTS, EIGHT BLACK HORSES, LADY LADY I DID IT, HAIL TO THE CHIEF, LIGHTNING, FAT OLLIE'S BOOK...whoah, Nellie, but you have absolutely no idea the greatness that's still coming up. The first few books, good as they are, do show an immature talent still learning his craft, so I think that "Gunsel" can be forgiven. A-TC

Slinging Slang and Cock-sucking
SAMIAM: Since gunsel was always slang and the word gay wasn't, I'm not sure your comparison will make sense. That said, gunsel now is considered -- and defined in most dictionaries -- as "a gunman," etc. Not saying that's correct, since many of the same dictionaries recognize "irregardless" as a legitimate word.

ALL MALE POSTERS: What the fuck is it with you guys? Seconds, minutes, hours, days, weeks, months, years, decades we spend in hot pursuit (pun intended) of sex, sex, sex and, well, more sex -- and still we manage to propogate the idea that things of a sexual nature are somehow degrading (I say we, because even I -- at least until the age of 12 or 13 -- have managed to make the same bone-headed mistakes). Years, months, days, weeks, hours and seconds we spend dreaming, fantasizing about (and hoping for) sexual acts that include all the variations (oral, vaginal, anal and hands-on). And yet, we STILL manage to degrade all of those physical pleasures in the course of everyday, um, discourse (I write that realizing that not _all_ of the variations supply pleasure to _all_ the people _all_ of the time --just call me the PT Barnum of sex lectures). But when it comes to spreading sexual goodwill, the male of our human species is his own worst enemy.

As far back as I can remember, some guy -- or some group of guys -- has always been twisting a particular sexual act, or a particular piece of the male or female anatomy, into an eptithet, putdown, or curse. Cocksucker seems to be the favorite with a LOT of supposedly heterosexual men. That particular word -- like the word cunt -- doesn't have to be one of such dark, angry meaning; but over the years, men have made it so, using it as a put-down. Don't these guys LIKE having a woman perform oral sex on them? (Okay, I'll exclude Richard Nixon because I can't imagine him enjoying sex -- hell, I can't imagine him in a sexual act, thank god, or whoever is in charge). But what moron -- in times past -- decided that the act of having someone pleasure him orally was both demeaning and worthy of degradation? Same goes for all the other oral-sex based eptithets -- or discriptions, of which I heard plenty throughout the years -- including things
like "slobbing the knob" and "blowjob." (I'll admit, the latter doesn't have the same hateful, um, thrust that cocksucker now does, but still...why make ANYone equate that particular act with labor? Once again, clearly the act of a mental midget).
And if that sort of behavior wasn't enough to prove that we men are our own worst enemies, we also walk around alienating ourselves and lovers from our own anatomy, or the use thereof. When we don't like someone, we call 'em a dick or a prick (or, in England, a wanker).

But we're not happy to abuse ourselves and make things tougher for ourselves (by putting a bad image to it all) when it comes to sex; nope, we have to attack the female of the species as well. Any guy who doesn't measure up to others in sports, or who complains, or who cant keep up with the gang, is called a pussy. (Personally, I think that epithet reflects the fear and apprehension most men feel about female genitalia -- if they were brave to dive in and revel in all of that juicy goodness, they wouldn't be so quick to dismiss it). To guys who like to call men they believe to be their inferiors "pussies," I have only one question: when's the last time you passed a 9 pound, 21 inch long living being through your penis opening (and continued to make use of it only weeks later)? Furthermore, someone should tell the self-same idiots that being "pussywhipped" would NOT be a bad thing (doh).
(And I won't even get into the whole "rug-muncher" thing -- oy!)

I could go on, but I'll spare our female readers -- and hope that those dickswingers out there who DO continue to propogate such stupidity will at least try to catch themselves next time they bone-headedly contribute to the war between the sexes -- especially when the verbal "bombs" they're lobbing only serve to blow off their own legs (you may interpret that anyway you like). You guys LIKE getting laid, LIKE regular sex? Then do the rest of us a favor and think before you talk.

Your not-so-local Freelance Paramour and Writer,
DTS

Just wondering:
1. What's the actual purpose of this site
2. I notice there's a bit about prison. How would you react to spending life in the nick for a crime you didn't commit?
3. Anyone come across any dissertations/theses on HBO's 'Oz'?
Enjoy,
Jassy

The meaning of slang words tends not to be defined so precisely. 'Gunsel', like 'gay', is clearly a word that now means something completely different from what it used to mean (though it's certainly interesting to know that the current meaning arose as the result of a misunderstanding).

Gunsel in the 87th
It just so happens...

I'm rereading Ed McBain's wonderful 87th Precinct books from start to finish. I'm currently reading THE PUSHER, third in the series.
A key element is a barely-out-of-his-teens character who'd never heard the word before and subsequently mispronouncing it.

BTW, every character in the book defines "gunsel" as "hitman." Where was Harlan when they needed him?

Tony

"Spin out a totally imaginary (but illustrative) case. Let's say there's this TV writer in Hollywood named Farley Nelson. Well, Farley turns out tight product, because he loves to tell a mean story. But, fool that he is, he KNOWS it's superior stuff, & seeing one script after another mangled & mutilated beyond sensibility -- often apparently just for the pleasure of claiming "creative input," like leaping into surgery & slashing at someone else's patient for a few seconds -- Farley decides to exercise his union rights & have the resultant twitching abortion branded as written by one "Bartizan Mole" in order to permanently register his upset. Let's say that one such script was an episode of _My Mother the Car_.

Now, here's the question on whose answer you & I have diverged: who wrote that episode -- Farley Nelson or Bartizan Mole?

I contend that the former did not. It's impossible that he'd write something that lame, & his name ain't even on it. He definitely wrote the original teleplay, & probably the revisions... but the horrible squealing thing on film is barely recognisable as deriving from that teleplay even if filtered through large amounts of bad drugs & a few organic psychoses. An imaginary being has been created post hoc whose walking Hell is to write such crap, & his name is Bartizan Mole"

Well, no. Imaginary beings don't write teleplays. Somebody had to do the bulk of the writing on the final draft. Maybe it was the episode's director, Joe Schmo. In that case, what we would have is an episode of MY MOTHER, THE CAR written by Joe Schmo, based on (and, perhaps, incorporating material from) an earlier teleplay by Farley Nelson.

Steve,

"KANE qualifies, in the opinion of a number of critical beliefs, as an "early" noir if nothing else"

Except none of those folks actually said that. They all point to Kane's duly noted and inarguable influence on the look of the genre, but none of them actually claim it as a part of that genre. It quite simply isn't. It fits the bill on the visual front, for sure, but it doesn't even come close to the narrative aspects of noir. The only way a noir film's gonna have a millionaire for a hero, for instance, is if he's planning on doing in his wife for the showgirl he's banging on the side. On a narrative level, Kane's a biopic. Body Heat, on the other hand, is pure-dee, one hundred percent film noir on every level (Unless you're one of those hard core purists, who insists the movement only lasted five or six years.)

Sorry to be a stickler, but among the three or, at best, four things I know in this world, film noir is one of 'em. And Citizen Kane ain't film noir.

Steve,

I can't see what the complaint is about the photo. Very nicel done. Admittedly I know next to nothing about the technical wizadry of photography, I can appreciate the result. Your picture could serve as the stepping stone for a number of different moods or creative threads.

Rabbit Hole
Not gotten yet. That will probably drop late tomorrow afternoon so I'll see it in the evening. - B.

Josh -

To a degree, you have me. But ... not to argue with someone who is as deeply involved with the art form as you are ... it's not as open and shut (black and white?) as you suggest. KANE may well have begat the style (or at least contributed heavily to its begatting).

Firstly, CITIZEN KANE was once described -- in a class, unfortunately, not sure if in print -- by none other than Arthur Knight as "proto-noir, the beginnings of the movement". The line is embedded in my noggin because that comment ignited quite a few of the film students in attendance.

Secondly, Time Magazine in its list of Top 100 Films observes: "This crypto-biography of newspaper tycoon William Randolph Hearst worked, fabulously, thanks to the insider's knowledge and narrative savvy of screenwriter Herman J. Mankiewicz, to cinematographer Gregg Toland's openness to experiment (he virtually created the film-noir style with this film) and, of course, to the boy-genius vigor the 25-year-old Welles brought to his first Hollywood enterprise."

Thirdly: "Citizen Kane (1941) Orson Welles's masterpiece is a narrative account, using the techniques of German expressionist film as transmuted through Hollywood film noir, of the life of the right-wing newspaper magnate William Randolph Hearst. Welles shows the New Deal liberal mentality in its most effective and attractive form: as a critique of bloated and irresponsible capitalism, but still fascinated by capitalist power" (Norman F. Cantor, The American Century: Varieties of Culture in Modern Times (New York: HarperCollins1997), 521).

Yes, maybe I overrotated on the definition but KANE qualifies, in the opinion of a number of critical beliefs, as an "early" noir if nothing else -- in, perhaps, the same way BODY HEAT qualifies as a late-noir???.

I bow to your experience, but the definition was based on knowledge, not blathering.

Sam Fuller
Harlan, interesting (though not surprising) that you should mention Sam Fuller. I've often wondered if your paths ever crossed.

Steve,

“Film Noir describes both a filmmaking movement as well as an overall visual style. The original movement ran primarily during the thirties and forties and yielded such classics as DOA, MALTESE FALCON and (of course) CITIZEN KANE.”

What’s the emoticon for a spit take?

Kane is all sorts of wonderful, and clearly had an impact on the genre - as did German Expressionism - but there is no way no how any serious student or fan of the genre will grant you that Kane is a film noir. Touch of Evil? Absolutely. Kane? Most definitely not. One of the few undeniable and defining aspects of the genre is that the subject matter is invariably related to squalid criminals, from the murderous adulterers in Double Indemnity to the sweaty race track thieves in The Killing.

Hi Harlan,

Apologies but I had sped read it as The Old Man. Blame my growing illiteracy and reading it at scroll speed. Bad Faq! Very bad Faq!

I suspect....
that Harlan went to see "SiCKO" and then, afterwards, snuck into a showing of "Transformers." I can't say for sure, and I don't want to be spreadin' any rumors....

In case you all were wondering (Steve), I have not gone to see the movie. My loud comment in the moment of silence at Pink's was ENTIRELY meant in a humorous vein. Steve.

-Keith

TRANSFORMERBOT DANNELKE aka SILVERFISH
BARNEY:

Unless you haven't (gotten yet/haven't perused yet) your latest Susan Ellison RABBIT HOLE masterwork, you would've noticed that YET AGAIN, CHURL, VARLET, the might of ellison has manifested itself prior to your puny reference to Arthur Suydam as the brain behind "Cholly & Flytrap," with the knowledge that the new front cover on the new (on sale by 10 August instant) new Tachyon new tpb of SHATTERDAY is by, ahem ...

ARTHUR SUYDAM!!!!!!!

Ha! THAT for you, Dannelke-Bot.

Yr. Pal, Optimus Prime Cobra Commander Ellison

REPLY TO FAISAL;

Oh geez-whiz, yes, of course, you're right, Faisal!

It was a brain-fart. Raymond Chandler: "Pick-up on NOON Street" ---- Sam Fuller: "Pickup on SOUTH Street."

I'm sorry to've misspoke myself.

But I don't get your advisement that the name of the other film I recommended is "The Old Gun." Yes, that's what I said at the git-go. All these subsequent title interjections by other posters are helpful in locating a copy, I suppose; but why are you advising me of what I already posted at some length? Am I missing some salient linkage, or did you (more explicably) miss my post that began this thread-drift?

Yrs. in total beffudlement, Yr. Pal, Harlan

REPLY TO FAISAL;

Oh geez-whiz, yes, of course, you're right, Faisal!

It was a brain-fart. Raymond Chandler: "Pick-up on NOON Street" ---- Sam Fuller: "Pickup on SOUTH Street."

I'm sorry to've misspoke myself.

But I don't get your advisement that the name of the other film I recommended is "The Old Gun." Yes, that's what I said at the git-go. All these subsequent title interjections by other posters are helpful in locating a copy, I suppose; but why are you advising me of what I already posted at some length? Am I missing some salient linkage, or did you (more explicably) miss my post that began this thread-drift?

Yrs. in total beffudlement, Yr. Pal, Harlan

The TLA Theater
Lemme second something about what Josh said about watching a faded, rare print of _Peeping Tom_ at the TLA. I know I posted something here once, about how I'd go to the early Creation Conventions here in Philly in part to see rare SF movies that never turned up on TV: _A Boy and his Sog_, _Wizards_, etc.

Usually, the film would be a 16mm print that had run through a lot of projectors, and the screen would be a sheet string down from the drop-tile ceiling. There's be splices, scratches, and very faded colors. But there was this nice clandestine French Resistance feel to watching movies like this.

The TLA is now a well-stocked video outlet, and there really aren't any revival theaters with the advent of home video. But I did get a taste of that feeling about a year or so ago. I bought a cheap DVD of Orson Welles's _Mr. Arkadin_. And the crummy condition of the source print there gave me a nice, comforting flashback. (And yeah, I did get the Criterion version later.)

Lene Taylor Skepchick calender and podcast
Harlan,

Here is the note Lene sent me 4 days ago;

Barney...

OK, now that I've picked myself off the floor, I will say yes, of course I'll call him. It's difficult for me to call during the day, since I have no privacy in my office - is it acceptable to call in the evening? I mean a reasonable hour, like 7 pm. Let me know what's good and and I can give him a jingle tonight or tomorrow. And I'm still willing to send him a calendar.

You did send him a CD of the "Boy and His Dog" special, right? Just want to make sure he can access it, if he's so inclined.

This is exciting!

Lene

PS. Thanks for posting the note to the forum. You're not an idiot and I still love you. ;-)

*****************************************************

She has your phone number.

*****************************************************

Here is the e-mail I sent her 5 minutes ago;

Lene,

I got a call from Harlan this afternoon which I had missed. He said he received the package with the podcast and the calender. He wanted to thank you personally but did not have a phone number that you could be reached at.

So, since I don't have a phone number for YOU to pass on to him AND since you have his address and phone number - ... please call him when you get the time, or send him your phone number by carrier pigeon or some such.

Hugs - Barney

***************************************************

For the record - I did send you the podcast on CD the month it went up on the net - last year. I prefer to be seen as negligent on only one front here.

- B

ps. - While I'm here, the new Hard Case Crime this month is FRIGHT by Cornell Woolrich. I mention this since noir is the big topic this week. Woolrich = noir. Also, a stunning Bad Girl Art cheesecake cover by Arthur Suydam who used to do CHOLLY & FLYTRAP sometime back in the Pleistocene when I was younger. It's probably not the best Woolrich in the canon but your still probably getting some top shelf genre fiction. ISBN 0-8439-5774-3

Spellbound in the Dark

Josh:

The first time I saw CASABLANCA, it was at the Ogden theater. It was one of those classic theaters that made a huge dark space when the movie started, no ceiling or track lights visible. If you wanted to see a classic film on the BIG SCREEN, or rock with ROCKY HORROR PICTURE SHOW on midnight Saturday, or if you wanted to see the SCIENCE FICTION FILM FESTIVAL, it was at the Ogden. The festival included not only a couple of feature films per night, but short subjects, including CAPTAIN MARVEL or episodes of SPACE PATROL - complete with commercials, done by cast members, for Nestle Quick. "Just pour some in a glass of cold milk, stir, and lickety-split..." it sank to the bottom of the glass in big brown clumps. Still, they kept their big smiles and sold that stuff like their jobs depended on it. Which they did.

Get together with a bunch of friends and make a night of it at the Ogden. God, that was fun.

The Ogden closed as a movie theater in the late 80's. It's still there, a venue for local rock bands. At least Denver didn't tear it down like they did ALL THE OTHER CLASSIC MOVIE PALACES and decent second-run theaters like the Ogden. I think it's probably because the Ogden is wedged between a porn palace and a bar, (along with a few shops) and they'd have to raze the whole block. The only palace-like theater left is the Mayan, which is the art house in these here parts. Still, no classics, no SF film fest.

Oh, I've got my DVD's, but it's just not the same.

Chuck

Tony,

Yer a dork, but I REALLY love that kinky idea with the panties and the flagpole. I’m gonna try it out right now! Spectators are welcome!

Y’know, you DID type, “an early Kubrick film, though I give more credit to Lucien Ballard for cinematography that's breathtaking.”

Kubrick didn’t SCHOOL Ballard. He directed the shots right down to the exposure setting. And I went into the anecdote ‘cause I really like it a lot, not to put on my panties. Whatever hypothetical you want to cradle – and this is my point - had Ballard been left to his own devices, he’d have also CHANGED the look of the movie from what YOU wound up admiring so much, and what Kubrick was striving for; your award to Ballard, then, would have been a fallacy. (And since the look probably would have been different, he most likely wouldn’t have even GOTTEN your award!) Thus, the credit for that photography you love so much goes to Kubrick.

Harlan,

…er…I dink JOSH just gotcha by da shmoooozles!

Harlan on Gunsels...
Made me laugh all through breakfast... Of COURSE we can't let these chestnuts scroll off and disappear into the ether. Of COURSE these gems must be preserved for posterity. Where would Hassidim be if the Maggid of Mezdrich hadn't preserved even the sneezes of the Baal Shem Tov?

YR. PAL, HARLAN. Coming to your local bookstores this Spring, from IDW Publishing.

SUSAN ELLISON
Susan, I renewed my membership but neglected to put my membership number on the form. It is M427, just in case it makes your work easier. Thank you for everything you do for with the Rabbit Hole, HERC and the Webberlanders.

Mark

Was sitting here this morning thinking about Humphrey Bogart and the word gunsel. At first I was of the mind that I couldn't imagine Bogart using the word "cocksucker".

But I can. I really can.
___________________________________

*And, of course, as Andy Partridge always said: "This is Pop".*

Actually, no. That was David Partridge, speaking to his mother Shirley........... And the word was "Poppers".

She was kind of a square.
___________________________________

I believe the "Film Noir" debate is a matter of symantics. (What else could it be, considering this is Webderland?)

In the words of my mother: "You're both right, and you're both wrong."

Film Noir describes both a filmmaking movement as well as an overall visual style. The original movement ran primarily during the thirties and forties and yielded such classics as DOA, MALTESE FALCON and (of course) CITIZEN KANE.

But it also be said that more modern films -- including color -- can be referred to as "film noir" in the same way a painter may still paint an impressionist painting. It doesn't mean the painter is him/herself an "Impressionist", but that their work falls into that categorization.

BLADE RUNNER is, to this audience, a well-known color movie shot as "film noir". This doesn't make it part of the original movement, but stylistically the categorization is appropriate as well as accurate.
________________________________

So. I got to "experimenting" again with my photography (Sorry Mr Silver. I hadda, I simply hadda).

It produced a picture that -- to me -- is evocative of 1960s music-album visuals. Of course, those images were also echoes of several earlier forms.

http://www.photosig.com/go/photos/view;jsessionid=aaiWOmzpIzaeStmUUp?id=2031274

As usual, it's become a little controversial, earning three reviews ranging from a lukewarm two thumbs up, to a very negative two thumbs down.

Ahhh...... being misunderstood. Is there any greater plaudit for an artist???

“so you'll have to watch it over here, Olson, Mr. Oooo-Gimme-New-Tek-Naw-Ledge-Eeee, if you want to view one of the truly great films of all time.”

Fraid not, Mr. Smarty-Pants.

While The Old Gun has not been released in the States, Abschied in der Nacht HAS been released on DVD in Germany, and my copy is winging its way to me as we speak, thanks to the miracle of the internets.

In fact, I invite YOU to come over HERE and watch it on DVD, because as wonderful as your beta cassette surely is, watching it digitally remastered and letterboxed on my New-Tek-Naw-Ledge-Eeee brand Hi Def projector (using a twelve and a half foot screen and a DVD player with amazing up-res capability) will be just a tad more wonderful.

That said...

There was something about the old, pre-video days. I remember being in junior high, and a die hard movie freak. I’d read about Michael Powell’s Peeping Tom for many years, what an amazing film it was, how it killed his career, how it was years ahead of its time, and so on. The thing never showed on TV, and I never knew if I’d get a chance to see it.

One day, it screened at the TLA downtown, on, I think, a Wednesday. Knowing this was my chance, and that I might never get to see it again, I skipped out of school and headed down to see it.

It was a shitty print, faded and scratched, and I sat through four shows of the thing, burning it in my memory.

Now, I have a gorgeous Criterion Edition DVD of it that probably looks better than it did when Powell sat down to watch it for the first time. I throw it up on my giant screen, and I marvel at the power of the thing. But... it’s not the same. There’s something about having to work for it that makes it a lot more meaningful, a lot more memorable.

Seems to me there’s a lot more die hard movie freaks now, and I guess that’s mostly a good thing, but I also think the younger ones don’t get what a real joy this art form can be, because it’s so easy for them (and us). I know we’re talking about sitting in the dark and just watching stuff, but it seems like it used to be a more active pursuit.

The lazy bastard in me loves that it took five minutes to find and order The Old Gun, but the purist in me just took another shot to the heart, I think.

Eh. I digress....

----
Tony,

Re: Harlan’s degree of detail

Heh. I still remember the objects flying at my head when I suggested that perhaps our humble host used a tad too MUCH detail in his scripts. It may have been the first time he called me a gunsel. Or words to that effect...

Hi Harlan,

Pick-up on South Street was Raymond Chandler? I've checked the Criterion DVD and its got no mention of his name there. I recently read Fuller's biog and no mention in there. Say it ain't so.

I love Sam Fuller's stuff and am forever envious of his productivity. Have still not checked the two Truffaut flicks you mentioned.

Also the Romy Schneider (who I think is hot. Yeah, really hot. Sorry, just dribbling on my keyboard) flick is also known as The Old Gun.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0073864/

Sounds good, will check it out on my mates BFI card or get the DVD.

I don't know if this counts as film noir but one of my guilty pleasures is Hangover Square.

FAQ

Mistah E: mucho tnx for setting me (& my erstwhile virtual student) straight about your once-through writing style. Yah; I used to write the occasional article that way for the newspaper, & while I'll admit that it keeps me from revising some POS endlessly, I'd get to the end totally stoked as if I'd been mainlining java. Like I said, when it comes to writing, whatever works is whatever works. And if I could walk that way, I wouldn't need the talcum powder.

In re "gunsel": ya, dat's why I never use the word. Now I have to reread stuff -- I _thought_ Chandler used it correctly. I also roll my eyes every time a TV show has some black character referring affectionately to "my home-boy" -- be kinda like some skerry white dude waxing warm about "my punk." (Which also explains why I _still_ don't like the term "punk rock.")

----------

Jason: no harm, no foul. Really, it was well-ranted.

----------

Rob Watchamapookie: I never dreamed for an instant that my comments would result in anyone's panties being run up the flagpole. You've run into a confluence of reasoned opinion & this damnable language, & that shoulda taken you about 12.83 seconds to figure out.

Spin out a totally imaginary (but illustrative) case. Let's say there's this TV writer in Hollywood named Farley Nelson. Well, Farley turns out tight product, because he loves to tell a mean story. But, fool that he is, he KNOWS it's superior stuff, & seeing one script after another mangled & mutilated beyond sensibility -- often apparently just for the pleasure of claiming "creative input," like leaping into surgery & slashing at someone else's patient for a few seconds -- Farley decides to exercise his union rights & have the resultant twitching abortion branded as written by one "Bartizan Mole" in order to permanently register his upset. Let's say that one such script was an episode of _My Mother the Car_.

Now, here's the question on whose answer you & I have diverged: who wrote that episode -- Farley Nelson or Bartizan Mole?

I contend that the former did not. It's impossible that he'd write something that lame, & his name ain't even on it. He definitely wrote the original teleplay, & probably the revisions... but the horrible squealing thing on film is barely recognisable as deriving from that teleplay even if filtered through large amounts of bad drugs & a few organic psychoses. An imaginary being has been created post hoc whose walking Hell is to write such crap, & his name is Bartizan Mole.

I stated that Lucien Ballard was the cinematographer of _The Killing_. And in that I am absolutely correct.

And you responded that Stanley Kubrick schooled Ballard. I do not doubt you for a moment.

But if _The Killing_ had taken home a statuette for Best Cinematography, on whose mantelpiece would it have resided?

I've recently reread a whole bunch of Harlan Ellison's published teleplays. Now I know why I'll never write a script: the detail he provides is so turnkey that I'm (as a mere struggling writer) intimidated beyond reason as to what he puts into a project. (Before anyone comments: no, I could probably work past it if writing for The Screen was a major goal -- I'm as obsessive as anyone else, dammit.)

You seem to be saying that, if a director were to take an Ellison script, & follow every cue to the letter, therefore Ellison was the "real" director of the piece. That is what I can't agree to -- if Ellison is to direct, then Ellison should direct... & if Kubrick is going to be a cinematographer, then he should (a) take that job AAAAANNNND (b) get that other lowlife hack's name off'n the titles. Until he does those two small things, Kubrick wears a lot of hats but he's not "the cinematographer of _The Killing_" & I'm completely correct in attributing the wowful visuals to Ballard.

Oh My Stars and Garters
Wow, what an astonishingly ignorant statement I made. Sorry about that.

Obviously all film was not in black and white. However, as opposed to today in which shooting a film in black-and-white gets you a reaction from the common moviegoer like you just punched their mother in the face, in the period that produced film noir (approx. 1939-1962?) it was much more acceptable, and often the norm.

And, Josh - while keeping in mind this whole thing is strictly fun-and-games and in no way are labels an important thing to argue about - I wouldn't ever call Nirvana "punk". I'd call 'em "grunge", which is something I find infinitely more boring. Now, maybe you'd have a case for The Pixies, but I think they're somethin' else entirely and wouldn't put the label on them, either.

And, of course, as Andy Partridge always said: "This is Pop". And other labels are just for the sake of themselves.

Lip service
Oh, fuck!

And I may have heard or read, somewhere/sometime, something from you about "gunsel".

I always remember "frenum" and "flense", but "gunsel" just has that idiotic folk etymology of "gun-" at work, and thus slides past the "idiot usage" algorithm of my verbal processing lobe.

I believe it was even properly explained in the annotated "Maltese Falcon" that I read years ago.

Ah well.

Anyone want a metaphorical No. 7 Florsheim, right foot, slightly soiled, once I get it out of my leather-reamed butt crack?

"Gunsel means cocksucker, gunsel means cocksucker..." said the man.

KOS

Harry Potter and the Inconsiderate Boyfriend
Kristin:

I heartily recommend at least one of the following:

1: Cosh, mickey, or otherwise incapacitate your so-called boyfriend and get that book read, posthaste.

2: Get your own copy and a new boyfriend.

Thank me later. Get going.

Tad

Rabbit Hole
Rabbit Hole arrived today. Gotta tell you, the back cover to the new release of SHATTERDAY is worth the price of admission alone. Loved it.

The two saddest words in the mail? "LAST ISSUE" printed on my mailing label. Time flies, checkbook is out. If only Susan would offer a lifetime subscription rate....I would be the first to send in my payment!

-TODD

If anyone's interested:

"The Old Gun" is available used in VHS format on Amazon under the name "Vengeance One by One" or on limited edition anamorphic (16:9) widescreen DVD with alternate scenes, several language options, a photo gallery and more at xploitedcinema.com under the same name. It's a Region 2 DVD though, so if you're in America, you have to have a region-free player or use some computer mojo to convert and reburn it to Region 1.

I'm such a loser!
So many of you fine folks to whom I sent a QUILT have lavished upon me everything from swell thank-you e-mails to cold, hard cash to nifty items of your own choosing, and I fear that I have managed to thank only one or two of you properly.

And now it's been so long that I can't recall who sent what or when or how et al., so I'm in total dickhead land now when it comes to showing proper appreciation to y'all.

Please accept this public THANK YOU ... and do your best to ignore the abject oafishness emanating from its issuer.

Also -- anyone going to San Diego next week? I'll be there from start to finish, so gimme a shout-out if a meet-up is something you might find of interest. If not, no worries -- I've enough on my plate to keep three Comic-Con attendees busy!

Oh, one more thing (yes, I'm in full Columbo mode) -- I'm currently looking to beef up my stable of freelance copy editing/proofreading clients. (Hoping for a few hits from the publishers in SD.) I know there are a lot of writers hereabouts, so if anyone can point me in the direction of individuals or companies that outsource their editing, I would be exceedingly grateful -- and I won't forget to thank you properly!

SJPO

kOS:

For about the millionth time I've told guys like you ...

The word "gunsel" does not AT ALL mean what you think it means.
And is NOT, NO WAY, NOHOW, NEVER EVER, a synonym for

side-boy
pistolero
thug
knee-breaker
puncher
hitter
assassin.

It is a word first used by Dashiell Hammett in THE MALTESE FALCON (the book, not the fine movie that ALSO got it totally wrongwrongwrong when it referred to Wilmer--Elisha Cook, Jr.--the fat man's gofer and messenger boy as a "gunsel").

Hammett had BEEN a Pinkerton, and he used the prison patois and vernacular properly. Those who followed him, including the great Chandler and every pseudo-noir wannabe since, assumed--wrongly wrongly o so wrongly--that because Wilmer packed a rod, and he was an outta-the-corner-of-his-mouth lowlife, that just because the word "gunsel" had "gun" in it...that it had ANYthing to do with a G*U*N, which it didn't, doesn't, and reveals anyone who uses it interchangeably with "pistolero" or "gunslinger" as a parvenu. That would be you, Sunny Jim.

I will tell you this once again, and for the last fuckin' time, so pay attention:

"Gunsel" is a long outmoded bit of yardbird slang for (are you ready?)

A COCK SUCKER.

Not a dickwad moron, or a bad name for someone who cuts you off in traffic, or a tightwad landlord who cuts off the heat in the apartment, or a deadbeat dad, but an actual, down-on-his-knees, takin' it in the upper channel cock sucker. A pole-painter. A logjammer. A con, usually very young, as Wilmer was supposed to be, whose butt-crack gets reamed in the joint by anyone and everyone till he finds himself a tea-bag, such as The Fat Man, who is supposed to be gay.

Wilmer was his gunself. His pucker-pal. His lip-louge.

Am I finally, for the millionth time, making my point, KOS?

Do not make this universally repeated error. Music doth not have charms to soothe the savae BEAST; nor is there anything odd about having your cake and eating it too...what you CANNOT do is EAT your cake and HAVE it too; nor was Joyce Kilmer or Joyce Carey a woman. The only pistol a "gunsel" packs is the rod he packs away between his teeth.

Yrs. forever for delicacy in all matters epistomological,

Harlan

Late and lost
HeY HARLAN: Running a bit behind with getting things of late, but you'll be getting The Call soon (no, no, no: NOT to join the war in Iraq, but to watch for the crackle).
hEy SUSAN: With everything in a "state of flux" around here, I'm not sure if I'm up-to-date with my sub for "Rabbit Hole." Any chance I can wheedle, whine and cajole, and beg you to check on that for me? (Strangely, I remember my HERC number: 1168 -- if I use a number enough, it gets stuck in my brainpan).

Hugs and kisses to you both,
Dorman

SE7EN

Keith:

At the time I saw SE7EN in the theatre, I enjoyed the first 3/4s and was incredibly upset and disturbed by the ending.

Not because it was a bad ending, or the wrong ending. It just wasn't the ending I wanted. I wanted Brad Pitt's character to somehow overcome all his anger and not shoot the villain and thereby foil the elaborate scheme.

My ending would have been utterly wrong for the movie, out of character, and basically sucked.

But I was very invested in the story and thus was very angry that the Spacey character got everything his way.

The ending (the real one) is especially what makes me think SE7EN is noir. It's SO hardboiled. It don't give you no quarter in its bleak view of human nature.

On the "porn" issue. I don't think the movie is any more graphic in what they ACTUALLY SHOW US then, say ALIEN. What's awful is the pictures they get the audience to imagine, and the all-pervasive oppressive vibe that the movie conveys. I suspect that a good deal of your "porn" feeling might be a reaction to the tone.

Also, it depends on what you think of as porn. To me the term means that a work exists only to arouse some aspect of our animal nature. So no real story or cinematography or acting or insights into The Human Condition -- it only exists to get you off (on the sex, or violence, or whatever does it for you)

(and by the by, I don't have a problem with that so long as nobody involved is being hurt or exploited in the real world)

(or at least, I don't have so much of a problem that I would censor - some violence, and some people's appetite for same, definitely does bother me)

By that standard, SE7EN is not, to me, porn. I wasn't getting off on the gore, I was horrified by it and wanted Freeman and Pitt to catch the bad guy before he could do more awful things.

And there was tons of great photography, acting and writing for me to appreciate on multiple levels.

Plus one of the absolutely scariest chase sequences I can recall seeing.

So, yeah, I think it's a hell of a movie. And on repeat viewings I've come to really appreciate the ending that pissed me off the first time.

Sorry for the second post in one day!

I forget who the director of SEVEN was but wasn't he the same guy who did ALIEN 3? Ugh, I *hated* what they did in ALIEN 3, starting out with the little kid being dead - that was sick and mean-spirited when the whole story in ALIENS was about rescuing her. If I meet that director I'm gonna call him "baby killer" to his face! (Well i live in the bay area so it's not likely I ever will meet any Hollywood directors.) I don't like movies that leave me depressed for weeks.

Yeah, I know about Gein....he inspired PSYCHO and the Hannibal Lecter series too. I remember reading about him in Cecil Adams' wonderful THE STRAIGHT DOPE column. (it's all archived on their website so you can do a search.) Um, he robbed graves and admitted to killing two women and decorated the house with pieces of them, but he swore he didn't eat them! The cannibal legend came later! (OK, I'm being a little facetious...)

Just got my new RH.....whoa....are they really gonna publish HE's greatest posts from this board? I'd have thought that was a bizarre joke if I'd learned it anywhere else! So, there's gonna be another Dreams with Sharp Teeth screening in Cleveland? Cool - having attended the one in LA I can't recommend it enough. Too bad there's no Pinks Hot Dogs in Cleveland.

My boyfriend has the new Harry Potter book (and he kept saying he didn't want to go near that crazy costumed-kid zoo on the first night!) He's finished it, but won't let me borrow it till he reads it again to enjoy all the best parts! Aaaargh!

Kristin

My Humble Opinion on Seven
Keith

I'm not ahamed to admit that Seven was one of my most favorite films of that year.

Those crimes were gruesome for a very good reason. I believe that the filmaker wanted to show the "biblical proprportions" of the criminal acts. I haven't seen the movie recently, but to my recolection, the gore and what have you isn't any worse than any other R rated horror movie I have ever seen.

You want really sick and twisted, just go read what some real time people have done to others. I suggest you start with Ed Gein, the serial killer who inspired The Texas Chainsaw Massacre. Then may I suggest maybe Jeffrey Dhamer, or maybe even Richard Speck.

I guess I'm just trying to say that Real life horrors are all around you, and you can't control them. Please leave me the ones I can control.
Lori

True Porn, and a Rabbit Hole Sighting!
Susan,

Got the Rabbit Hole today. Thank you! You are Harlan are going to be busying yourselves out of doors again... You are both, of course, always welcome down here at Altitude Zero.

Michael M.: Did you enjoy SE7EN? I want to say I liked it, because I love Morgan Freeman's work, and the movie was definitely Noir, a style I greatly enjoy (will be checking out Harlan's recommendations, definitely). But the movie was grotesque and pronographic. In fact, it was obscene. I'm surprised it was released with an R rating. I'm not a prude, but the graphic nature of that movie made me, for perhaps the first time in my life, "recognize" something as obscene.

But I have seen it twice.

-Keith

Noir As The Night
Martin Scorsese in "A Personal Journey with Martin Scorsese Through American Movies" (1995) spent about thirty minutes of the 240 minute running time discussing Film Noir. It's one of the better such overviews I've seen. I recommend the DVD set for that segment alone.

More here: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0112120/

I recommend for little known but fun Noir:

"Private Hell 36" (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0047370/
Ida Lupino with Don Siegel directing.

"Shack Out On 101" http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0048607/
Worth the search for the delightfully crazed young Lee Marvin as "Slob" the slightly (!) off-center cook.

The early seventies remake of "Farewell My Lovely" (much closer to the novel than the 1944 adaptation) with a simply stunning Charlotte Rampling and a perfectly seedy, tired-looking Robert Mitchum capturing Philip Marlowe. Harry Dean Stanton and John Ireland are good too. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0072973/

Lastly, two early classics:

"The Killers" Burt Lancaster's first film. Watch for William Conrad in the opening as a classic "gunsel". http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0038669/

"This Gun For Hire" Alan Ladd stole the film in a supporting role, and became a star as Philip Raven, the hit man who is kind to cats. It's got Veronica Lake too, which ought to be enough for anyone. The original poster for this movie was a stone litho that you have to see to believe. True Art. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0035432/

I can get large format prints of the posters for most of these Films Noir, as well as several hundred others, if anyone's interested.

KOS

in color, pretty recent...

...but noir to the bone, if you ask me.

SE7EN

Robert Enrico videos
_An Occurence at Owl Creek Bridge_ (dir. Robert Enrico) appears to be available, both new and used at several of the larger online bookstores.

_Vengeance One By One_ (alternate video title for _The Old Gun_, aka, _Le vieux fusil_) is available used (probably Region 2) from one or two vendors.

Check it out!

Not to forget:

MISSISSIPPI MERMAID

and

THE BRIDE WORE BLACK.

-HE

DEUX NOIR, POR VOUS

For me, a pair of the best "noir" films ... either unknown to you, or overlooked in our exchanges:

The first is an easy one: PICKUP ON SOUTH STREET (1953)from Raymond Chandler and Richard Widmark and Jean Peters and Thelma Ritter, with screenplay and direction by the incomparable Sam Fuller (whose CHINA GATE is no sucotash, either).

The other one, though, I cannot recommend more strenuously: an astonishing French film titled THE OLD GUN (1976). You won't find it in your Maltin, and it only had one American release, as a Beta cassette, 1n 1985; so you'll have to watch it over here, Olson, Mr. Oooo-Gimme-New-Tek-Naw-Ledge-Eeee, if you want to view one of the truly great films of all time. Philippe Noiret, Romy Schneider; screenplay by Pascal Jardin; directed by Robert Enrico. It won three (3) Cesars -- the French equivalent of an Oscar -- one of which was for Best Picture.
(Noiret won the Cesar as Best Actor for his role as Julien, the mild-mannered doctor whose wife and daughter are murdered by the Nazis.) You will know the work of Enrico from the famous short film he made based on Ambrose Bierce's "An Occurrence at Owl Creek Bridge" which, in somewhat truncated form, Serling and Buck Houghton edited as a segment of the original "Twilight Zone." Recommended (though gawdknows where you'll find it).

Strenuously.

Yr. Pal, Harlan de la Noir Ellison

Dear Jan: (Film Noir)
Took your advice and checked the archives. My God, Harlan has a lot of favorites! I was here then, and don't quite understand how I forgot the previous posts on the topic. Too much summer heat and humidity, perhaps? Anyway, there's no hard and fast rule against revisiting certain topics here from time to time, is there?

Not all the Lewtons are film noir by any means, but in addition to Harlan's choice of CAT PEOPLE, I would add THE LEOPARD MAN (from Cornell Woolrich's BLACK ALIBI) and THE SEVENTH VICTIM, with an odd shower scene that predates PSYCHO by about 17 years.

Harlan, I think Todd is afraid of you; that you might make fun of his set of George W. Bush bobbleheads.

Wyatt, Harlan bobblers, I would buy one. Go for it wildman.

---------------

Keith, I might just do that, because the Dutch are big fans of Prince, being his biggest audience. I also want to try the great cheeba I hear they have at their numerous "coffee" bars, who we know serve more then coffee. Nothing like those joyous red buds. High Times is my pornography.

As long as they give you plastic sheeting for protection I'd go for that sex show. Reeperbahn is another one on my to do list. Jan, hook a brother up.

-------------

Noir? Cough, cough--Blood Simple; not only is this a classic noir, but it is also a great example of grindhouse/art-cult-geek film making.

---------------

MM on Hardball monday.

Tony Ravenscroft,

"One of the best noir films is of course _The Killing_, an early Kubrick film, though I give more credit to Lucien Ballard for cinematography that's breathtaking."

You haven't the vaguest idea of what you're talking about!

Every shot - literally - lighting, angles, choice of lens, diffusion, and planning for the over-all look was Kubrick's. Not Ballard's.

The story, as it went, is fairly well-known in the Bible of Filmmaking.

Ballard, who's ideas were originally opposite to Kubrick's (high contrast photography versus natural light), was well-seasoned when THE KILLING was shot. Kubrick was young at the time. Ballard figured the director wouldn't know enough about the technical stuff.

So, during a set-up (Kubrick designed the apartment set so that the camera would dolly through without a cut) Kubrick adjusted the finder to the lens he wanted for a long dolly shot, a 25mm. At the time, that was the widest lens available to his choice of camera, the Mitchell BNC. Kubrick planned every detail. After going through it, he hands the finder to Ballard, and tells his cinematographer - who's so much older than he - to proceed with the light set-up while he goes off the set to deal with business.

Then Kubrick came back. Ballard had set up the dolly track according to instructions...except that he placed it a distance further from where Kubrick had told him to. Kubrick goes, "what are you DOING?" Ballard, in self-assurance: "I took your dolly shot and instead of the 25mm, I'm just going for the 50mm, but I'm at a distance where you would get the same image size for the distance as that. Everything is the same size, but I prefer to work at this distance. It's a little easier to light, it won't make a difference". Kubrick returned, pointing out that it DOES indeed make a difference because the entire perspective changes. Ballard felt the original option would create a distortion; but what he didn't understand is that it was precisely that distortion that the director wanted. It was a new idea in those days.

So, finally, Kubrick goes,"Lucien, either you move that camera and put it where it has to be to use a 25mm or get off this set and never come back!"

Ballard gave in, followed instructions, and the debate about focal length and lenses never recurred.

After that, Ballard learned quickly to respect Kubrick's expertise.

The film belongs entirely to Kubrick.

Y'know, I wish you guys would do a little reading up on some of these directors before you presume to minimize their vision and expertise - whether it's Kubrick or Hitchcock. That would save me the time of having to jump in here and straighten you out.

RE: Noir versus NEO-NOIR (since you're all getting lathered up in labels)

Neo-Noir films I recommend:

Body Heat, Blood Simple, certainly Chinatown (in spite of Harlan's original dispensing that one), Taking of Pelham One-Two-Three.

I'm not TOO into these, but you might also check out Fargo and the DOA remake.

Altman's The Long Goodbye is a GREAT to check out.

Otherwise, the list can go on and on.

A few noir not mentioned that I'd like to recommend:

Panic In The City with Richard Widmark

He Walks By Night w/Richard Basehart (this was the movie that inspired, quite directly, the series Dragnet)

Ace In The Hole by Billy Wilder

The Big Heat by Fritz Lang

Experiment In Terror (with a psychopathic Ross Martin)

"Oodles" o'others I know I do injustice by leaving out - but who has the time?

Shagin,

I read your post wondering how I'd react if confronted with the crisis you had to deal with. I'm not a stare-at-the-spectacle kind of guy, but I'm not sure how understanding I'd be. I tend to forget there are childred with those problems, even though I'm a twenty milligrams of Prozac per day man.

Your post made me think, made me wonder. I wish the best of success for you and your young-uns.

Chuck

In the perfect world, I would make my living writing two screenplays a year. Every year, I’d write one western, and one film noir. Truly, this would be paradise.

After decades of immersion in the genre, I’ve finally come to the conclusion that while you can point to some shared traits, you really can’t define film noir. You know it when you see it.

While he’s exceptionally wrong in his assertion that all movies of the period were black and white, Jason IS right when he asserts that true noir was a product of a specific place and time. But so was true punk, and yet somehow Nirvana fit the bill, as have many other great bands. Eventually, you have to just admit that it’s a genre, and leave it at that. Derivative and post modern as hell, Body Heat’s still a film noir.

I’m amazed nobody’s mentioned the Big Two, though - Double Indemnity surely belongs in the hall of fame, and the wonderful, greasy no-budget Detour is a dark blast of wonderfullness.

I have two faves to add to the list as well - Where The Sidewalk Ends is terrific, and there’s a really magical poverty row winner called Wicked Woman with Beverly Michaels and Richard Egan that’s not on video, but shows up on the tube from time to time. It’s a classic noir set up with a concluding twist that I’ve never seen before or since. It’s just delightful, and well worth looking for.

"...the fact that ALL films of this period were black and white."

Well-ranted, Jason... but largely incorrect.

Various color processes were all the rage, even wide-screen.

But there is almost direct antithesis between "film noir" & "big budget" films, which is their hallmark. (Been a while since college, so don't quote me.) These films actually have more in common with today's indie film, particularly the "natural" or whatever-they-call-it movement (available light, minimal cuts, etc.).

So while I see what ATC's getting at, noir has to have b&w filmstock -- & it has to be CHEAP stuff so that you are forced to get that overprocessed high-contrast (hence _noir_). It has to be shot with whatever lights are available, whether kliegs or arcs or whatever's in the storeroom. It's mostly interiors (with notable exceptions). It's loaded with severe angles. It makes minimal use of fades because they cost money & burn film. It uses minimal slam-cuts because they burn film & cost money. (There's a theme here.) It's loaded with two- & three-shots, with an occasional maniacal skewed-angle closeup for startle value. Oh, yeah: it's big on weird angles, giving the occasional impression that the tripod's collapsed but the director ain't called "cut!" yet. The actors are walking a thin line between craft & hamminess -- it's basically a filmed stage play.

Having just marathoned about half the original _Twilight Zone_, I see where much modern TV tries to paste melodrama into what once would've been "Hollywood spectable" format, where it'd work much better in "film noir" format.

One of the best noir films is of course _The Killing_, an early Kubrick film, though I give more credit to Lucien Ballard for cinematography that's breathtaking.

Sorry. Wasn't calling anyone a moron. My titled got cut off. Should have been "More on cricks"

More on
For my Missouri grandmother, there was no such thing as a creek – they were all “cricks”. And the ultimate point of the saying was that events were contingent on there not being so much rain that “the cricks would rise”, making roads impassable. Here in Arizona (where my grandmother moved while in her 20’s - that would be about 1930) it didn’t take much for that to happen. Everything was usually dry, and there were no bridges, so one decent rain or thunderstorm (and we really do get rain sometimes) would cause the crick to come down, and travel would be impossible. (Even when I was a kid, Arizona had started bridging every dry riverbed they could find. This led to my exclamation, while a 6-year-old traveling in Colorado, “Look at the bridge with water under it.”) I would assume that, in wetter areas (which means almost anywhere but Arizona), it either made the cricks too deep to pass, or even flooded out what bridge might exist. (Although, again based on context, a crick was something that hoped, some day, to be a river.)

Probably more than anyone wanted to know.

Mike

Since we covered Film Noir last year, Jeff, you can use the archives and find some of what you're looking for, including Harlan's list of worthwhile film noir. (HARLAN ELLISON - Saturday, February 18 2006 15:2:0 REPLY TO FILM BUFF)

HARLAN: If only you knew what I was just told... you'll see. Heeheeheeheehee.... *rubbing hands*

A-T Castro, Film Noir
Adam-Troy,

While I think the films you cite are very good ones, (and while recognizing the act of labeling and sorting into categories as one engaged strictly for the fun of itself and kinda silly), I would call the films you mention "noir-inspired", as I am one of those who views Film Noir not as a genre (it includes examples from both Detective and Crime genres and possibly one or two more) but as an historical period of cinematic expression, uniquely Post-War American and BY DEFINITION BLACK AND WHITE, not only because of the telling chiaroscuro compositions by which any of us can identify one of the films of this period but by virtue of the fact that ALL films of this period were black and white.

Much like you cannot make a "German Expressionist" film today, but only a film inspired by German Expressionism, so too can a "Film Noir" film not be made today, but only a film inspired by that period.

(Of course, one of the biggest flaws in the preceding theory: good luck finding where "Film Noir" begins and ends. Is CITIZEN KANE proto-noir? Is THE BIG SLEEP Noir, or merely a Detective movie made concurrent with the Noir period? How long does the period last, and when does it end and its imitators begin? Can we call a Stanley Kubrick film (the Killing) a Noir, or is it his own other thing entirely?)

((and then I froth at the mouth and roll over dead))

Alan - Back in upstate New York in the seventies, while I growing up, one of my grandmother's expressions (she of the "crazy as a red-assed bee") was "God willin', and the crick don't rise." She called the ribbon of mountain run-off that bisected the town the Catskill Crick, as many did, though it's now given way to the more common-for-the-day "Catskill Creek".

Her context typically was related to probability of success in a task requiring timing: "Pies will be ready for Christmas God willin' and the crick don't rise." I always heard it as a disaster allusion - her flowery longhand for "barring incident". She was never much one for indian references (thought she could curse a blue streak in German, the result of a Bavarian-born steelworker father), so that would be a new one on me.

Film Noir In Color
Without disrespect to any of the classics cited, film noir CAN work and HAS worked in color. I mention, for instance, CHINATOWN, THE LAST SEDUCTION, and last year's utterly demented teen noir (and *wonderful*) teen noir, BRICK.

wp8et9s5ak
v6w8bkrqxhwayc http://www.833756.com/112684.html lfknfk6f0ut

grace and beauty
It's been a rough week all the way around - I'm putting this out as a blessing to fellow travelers.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h1DqfJtd3sU

The minds of our leaders so be as strong and flexible as the bodies of these gifted dancers.

Strangers in the Noir
A quick hit list of favorites of my favorite Noir or Noir-ish films. I do believe that black and white does impart a sort of truth or realism that color may distract from. When I was in film achool, all our early movies were in black and white, and silent, so that only the comporition, the picturial value, not the color, or the dialogur distracted from what the viusal were trying to do.

I being os a certain age grew up in a world of ONE TV set, with a pair of rabbit ear attenai, and everything was in black and white. And since there was nothing to rerun, my eyeballs were filled with the black and whtie world of films from long before I was an itch in daddy's pants. Hell, some of the cartoons I saw may have been pretty itch in granddad's pants!

Anyway it imparted a world of black and white, that has remained deeply engraned within me and here are a few selections off the top of the head. I welcome comments and additions.

Out of the past
Crossfire
Night of the Hunter
Phantom Lady
Brute Force
The Val Lewton Films
The Phenix City Story (No the spelling is not wrong)
DOA
Night and the City
The Stranger
Lady from Shanghai
Touch of Evil
Ace in the Hole aka The Big Carnival
Naked City
White Heat

There is more...lots more and I am sure Uncle Harlan, our esteem Host can share many a special favorite but here is a starters course for those with a taste for the black and white, world where the side walk ends.

Me: "You taught me that it was okay to get angry."
HE (hunkered down behind a table piled high with offerings of his various works, trying out a new fountain pen, smiling as only HE can): "Feelz good, dud'n't'it?"
Me (a smile of my own, reminiscent of picking long pig gristle from between my teeth): "Oh, yeah."

-- Foolscap VII, Bellevue, Washington, can't recall the year


McDonald's may have next to nothing to recommend it as a culinary icon, but it is usually fast, inexpensive, and my youngest son James can drink the shakes without much of a problem. They also serve as a passable base for additions such as breakfast drink powder or protein powders to supplement his very limited diet.

Today was one of those connect-the-dots affairs, dictated less by the clock and more by necessity of the most efficient route. With that in mind, I stopped by the nearest McToad's to get both boys something to eat. Seeing the line at the drive-thru, I opted to head into the restaurant with both boys for a quick round of take-out. Behind us came three families totaling ten kids (ranging from two to 14 years) and four adults (ranging from old enough to be grandparents to young enough to be the duty parent while dad is deployed). I placed the order only to be told that the milkshake machine was once again kaput. Not the best of news, but far from earth shattering. The boys and I stepped aside to wait for the feast. I sang to James to pass the time.

What was a minor setback in my eyes was nigh on apocalyptic to my youngest son who has the attention span of a spastic gnat and problems with state control (global delays as part of his diagnosis of 5P- ); top it off with the fact that I wouldn't let the boys wait in the play area, knowing how hard it would be to get them out again, and James began to cry. Loudly. With much enthusiasm. This set his older brother off who began to complain about his brother's crying. Loudly. With much enthusiasm.

I kept my cool, worked to redirect James while communicating the need to wait, and would have been fine hugging my son for his own comfort and a bit of deep pressure stimulation, but I chanced to look up to see if our food was ready only to find everyone, and I do mean EVERYONE, in the front part of the restaurant staring at us. The children, the parents, the employees. Every'frickin'one. I'll credit one or two of them with expressions of dismayed curiosity as they wondered why my son was upset; the others cut a cross section of disgust, amazement, irritation, and outright revulsion at the sight of my son crying because he was hungry and didn't understand why he had to wait for his milkshake.

I snapped. Strike that, I shattered. I exploded in a whirlwind of one thousand razor sharp pieces as I all but shouted and said, "Jeezus, what's wrong with that kid? What's the matter, is he retarded or somethin' to be cryin' like that? Gahd, lady, tell him to shut the fuck up or take him outside or somethin'! It's bad enough that I gotta listen to 'im, but I gotta watch him, too? Lookit that. He's got snot everywhere."

James cried louder. The children frowned, certain something was wrong yet helpless to express it. The adults didn't have that excuse. They couldn't look away. My son was a freak show spectacle too horrific to resist. Bring on Freda the Fattest Woman on Earth and Zippo the Geek! You ain't the only one to watch the carnival crowds from backstage, Mr. Ellison, not by a long shot. If they wanted a show, I'd give them a show, and the admission was a pound of flesh because they were fresh out of courtesy.

"Aw, Jeez, now he goes stickin' his hand in his pants like he's got nothin' better to do. And he's wearin' a diaper! The kid's not even potty trained an' I'm starin' at him with his hand in his pants. What's up with that? I mean, the only thing worse than this kid with a hand in a diaper is watchin' him!"

Some turned fish belly white, others flushed with Sunday morning outrage. And I promise you not one of the adults, and I mean not one of them, had the guts to call me out for the outburst. No one apologized, either. What could they say - "You're right, we're inbred fucknuts who can't be bothered with common courtesy."? James has a diagnosis, not an excuse; they couldn't cop to the same. With wide, guilty eyes, the indignant sheep herded themselves and the children back to the counters. James cried, I gave him what he needed, we continued to wait.

When my order was up, the manager walked around the corner and handed it to me with a brave attempt at at smile. He didn't look me in the eye. By then, all I wanted to do was get out of there and get on with my day. I took the bags and we were out the door to connect the next dot.

I don't make excuses for my kids. My youngest can be loud, frustrating, and is best handled as a three-year-old in a ten-year-old body. My oldest perseverates on the slightest thing and has all the social graces of a bull in a china shop. They're not God's Angels, Gifts From Heaven, Special Blessings, or Punishment For Your Lack of Faith. They're my children and none of them above keeps me from loving them, wanting the best for them, and doing my damnedest to give them a fighting chance in the world. I don't want pity, remorse, comfort, condescension, or approval. Sometimes all I want is my cheeseburger Happy Meal, no pickles, with a Sprite, please. If you want to ask questions, go for it. Feel the need to stare? Happens to the best of us. If you don't understand, that's cool; if you don't care, that's cool, too, but DO NOT, never, ever, treat my children like circus freaks because you're jealous that own parents couldn't be bothered to give you that same fighting chance.

Why is she telling us this? Hell if I know. Maybe it's in the hope you'll think about it before you fork over your admission to the freak show. If you see me watching you from backstage, you'll know why.

&%$#. Damn button.

Rabbit Hole sighting in Long Beach this fine afternoon. Details to follow on the 11 o'clock news.
_______________________

Jeff R.

"LAURA"

I had a "crick in my neck" on a few occasions. Does this simply imply I'm still "wet behind the ears"?

Inquiring minds, and all that.
____________________________________

"Helen McDonald died Sunday in Dykebar, Paisley, Scotland, after a long battle with cancer, according to the Paisley Daily Express. She was 67."

Given the not-altogether completely unlikely possibility someone who knows David Tennant (The Doctor) lurks or posts hereabouts, allow me to extend the condolences of Webderland-at-large at the loss of Mr. Tennant's mother. Please convey this, if you would.

As Mr. Tennant may -- possibly -- be aware, The Doctor carries some weight, hereabouts.

if the crick don't rise
.
An old saying. Crick being creek. Some have suggested that Creek is capitalized and refers to the Native American tribe. So, 'if the Creek don't rise' means if hostilities don't break out.

Does anyone know if this is or could be true?

David:

||"Remember, Reagan was a corporate shill before he became a ||full-time employee of the government, and then head of the ||government, trumpeting that government is the root of all evil.

||I've never been able to figure out whether he was a total
||maroon or genuinely evil."

The whole Reagan dynamic has made me think a bit lately... what would make me angrier, having Reagan as President or having Nixon as President? I overlook Bush the junior because I really don't think he's much different than Reagan.

Maybe it's the time between, maybe it's because I wasn't alive while Nixon was president, maybe it's becuase we know more about what the man was like by records like the ones just released... but I actually think Nixon would be the preferrable poison.

I think it's a bit like Joseph Conrad's dynamic of the lusty, red-eyed devil versus the obese, slothful devil. At least Nixon strikes me as skilled. At least he strikes me as an individual with an imagination. Twisted, yeah, but there it was. Reagan strikes me as someone who stumbled around, made a mess and would get appluded for the privilage. Better to be bested by someone smart enough to BE evil: to be bested by such a confused and ignorant man as Reagan would be absurd, a joke. From what I can tell you could love to hate Nixon because he was worth hating. Reagan is worse, because he dumbed down the question. He was worse than a good man, and worse than an evil man; he was inconsequential: as is Bush Jr.

And also, apologies to all if I've been part of any troubles of late on the board. I'm a good guy, really I is.

For Harlan and/or the rest of the gang:
Are there any particular films noir that you'd strongly advise me to check out on DVD or VHS? I have my own favorites, of course, but I'm very interested in the opinions of such a highly literate group of film buffs as we have here.

Also, can film noir work - I mean really, REALLY work - in color, or is black and white an integral part of the format?

A call will indeed be forthcoming, then!
Probably next week, when time is less tight. Thanks!

It struck me as a felicitous means, posting here, of both feeling you out, Harlan; reminding everyone of the advent of the four episodes, at least, getting a play finally; saying hello to the assembled, old and new (and ab Hugh, we're always ready for more fiction, sir); and perhaps even drawing attention to the blog among potentially interested parties.

John Kessel reports being very happy with the cut he saw of his episode, as well, which will serve as the debut (on 8/4). The Heinlein and Howard Fast episodes are scheduled to fall between, with "The Discarded" batting cleanup on 8/25, 10p ET/PT. If the crick don't rise.

Keith,

As someone who has met Crystal, and can attest to both her beauty and intelligence, please allow me to beg for more details on this encounter. If it is not a story meant for public consumption, call me on my cell. I do not have the kids this weekend and should be around.

Tony Ravenscroft, this is not a club I ever wanted or expected to join. The initiation rites are absolute hell. Sorry we were not able to connect during ConVergence weekend

Mark

July 20, 1969
Men (and women) seldom need teaching, but they often need reminding.

July 20, 1969 is a date that ought to be a holiday.

Go here to understand:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rX65bZ_D9vM

"Now's the time to touch a star" (Karl Franzen of Broceliande)

and

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IXteSV8rBwY&mode=related&search=

"Hope Eyrie" (Leslie Fish)

KOS

sex show
Frank,

Actually, the sex show was widely attended by young couples, old perverts, and Japanese businessmen. The reason we were at a 90 minute sex show for 3 hours was because we got up on stage for one of the 3 acts which invited audience participation. Before I knew it, Crystal was raising her hand when the hot blonde who had been diddling herself with a vibrator 2 acts previously came down into the audience looking for “volunteers.” So Crystal wanted to see the whole show again because different people would, of course, be chosen for these acts, and she wanted to see what they would do….

Maybe that is a story for another time. If you ever get to Amsterdam, though, you have got to see one of these shows. Very entertaining. Usually they consist of a revolving set of six acts, but that night they had 8 acts, and a rotating stage to exploit all angles. If you go, though, don’t sit in rows 1-3. Word.

-Keith

It's all cool, Jan. Todd wouldn't be bothering me; I'm proud as hell of this current piece of tv writing. It comes exceeding close to wholly satisfying The Unsatisfiable Perfectionist in me, who has ever been frustrated by the essential nature of what is, ultimately, a "collaborative art-form."

Yr. Pal, Harlan

Sorry, didn't see Harlan's post.

Harlan, I think he didn't want to bother you. :-)

Todd: We're all looking forward to the HE/Josh Olson episode and almost feel a part of it because Josh let us see some pictures from the set last year and they teased us no end. (Harlan still hasn't told us what happened between him and the costume lady.) You could mention it's probably 90% fresh and new product since it is a one-hour show based on a fifty-year-old SHORT story. I don't know what kinds of stories the other Masters picked, but the one Harlan chose is not very well known and from an out-of-print book. Perhaps they wanted something that's straight SF, which Harlan hasn't published in a while. By the way, you may have heard that Harlan has a cameo in it.

TODD:

Why don't you just simply call ME (not to downgrade the chattiness of Webderlanders, whom you may prefer) and ask ME what you want to know about the MOSF segment I wrote in collaboration with 2006 Oscar nominee (A HISTORY OF VIOLENCE) Josh Olson, in which I appear as a character in a tiny part I wrote for myself and Josh--though Josh didn't finally play opposite me--because if you call ME, I'll have more, considerably more, to say than a lovely group of folks here...

WHO HAVEN'T SEEN THE GAHDAMN EPISODE YET!!!!!!

That's called commonsense and irreducible logic.

Call me, massuh Mason, when/if you choose.

Yr. Pal, Harlan

Larry Forest, once again you hit it straight out of the park. If young Republicans are not willing to fight in Iraq they should shut the hell up and never talk again, except when they give me a blow job. You do know the right is soooooooooooooo kinky--torture chambers and the like. Babee, boink my pooter.

------------

Keith, if you and the little woman went to a live sex show then doesn't that make you the seedy type? I do have more respect for you.

------------

Cindy, never forget the scene in Goodwill Hunting: Hunting is looking at a row of books on Robin William's charactor's shelf. Hunting asks Robin if he has read all those books, Robin says that he had to, in which time Hunting makes the remark: "You people amaze me, you read all these books, but you are reading the wrong books." Look around at the vast array of ideas out there dear lady, you will be amazed at what you will learn. Not be mean or sarcastic; this is only in love and respect. Flaps his owl eyes.

------------

Steve Evil, more bran for you comrade.

-------------

Yes, I saw the shock bit of Larry King last night. Tammy Mesner looks like a walking corpse, someone from a concentration camp. Very sad, hopefully nobody will say a foul word about her and let her live in final peace. I forgive her for her past idiocys and knowing she doesn't want pity all I can do is feel really sad and depressed. I prayed for her, yes I did. Sad world we live in. We have a very unfair universe. Maybe God is dead.

the old shill game


|| Reagan: "The most terrifying words in the English language
|| are: I'm from the government and I'm here to help."


As opposed to the corporations' approach, which is to implant attitudes and desires in you and make you think they were your own in the first place.

Remember, Reagan was a corporate shill before he became a full-time employee of the government, and then head of the government, trumpeting that government is the root of all evil.

I've never been able to figure out whether he was a total maroon or genuinely evil.

DEAR SCOOTER:

I trademarked a biography title I liked a lot, a few years ago, exactly to respond to your suggestion...a thought that, yes, I'd had any number of times. But every time I get a spare moment, and think "well, perhaps I'll try that bio of ellison thing," I stop myself dead in the track. There are several dozen reasons, and I weary myself just thinking about conveying them. Suffice to say, the new film, DREAMS WITH SHARP TEETH is, in a way, that biography...and I'm having entire horizonfulls of personal acceptance of THAT excellent documentary.

Thank you for suggesting it, old comrade, and if we cut trail again soon, I'll just sit and bore you with the reasons. Otherwise, stay well, and stay out of trouble. And forgive me still thinking of you as Scooter, though I do, in fact, actually, realize you are a grown-up person.

Yr. Pal, Harlan

Flame Fanner


Cindy,

Since you tend not to go over to the boards, I'm pasting part of a post, as it offers a bird-eye-view of a socio-political dynamic, check-spotted by 3 quotes (I happen to think it's intriguing, and worth reflecting the implications):


1950's. President Eisenhower, in the letter to his brother:

"Should any political party attempt to abolish social security, unemployment insurance, and eliminate labor laws and farm programs, you would not hear of that party again in our political history. There is a tiny splinter group, of course, that believes you can do these things. Among them are a few other Texas oil millionaires, and an occasional politician or business man from other areas. Their number is negligible and they are stupid."

1980's. President Reagan:

"The most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the government and I'm here to help."

No one sums up this dynamic better than Bill Moyers (from 2005):

"One of the biggest changes in politics in my lifetime is that the delusional is no longer marginal. It has come in from the fringe, to sit in the seat of power in the Oval Office and in Congress. For the first time in our history, ideology and theology hold a monopoly of power in Washington. Theology asserts propositions that cannot be proven true; ideologues hold stoutly to a worldview despite being contradicted by what is generally accepted as reality. When ideology and theology couple, their offspring are not always bad but they are always blind. And there is the danger: voters and politicians alike, oblivious to the facts."

And who's been pushing these tides, with its ultimate force since the early 80's (unbeknownst to a placated Left, who failed to notice, and remember the power of media)?

Corporate America.

Any comment for the TV GUIDE blog on MASTERS OF SCIENCE FICTION?
Hello, folks...it's been a while since I was "here," though I was a pretty heavy contributor to the predecessor forum for a while (wonder whatever happened to Keegan or Sue, but see some other familiar names, not least the fellow Pennsylvanians). I'll be doing the TV GUIDE blog for MASTERS OF SCIENCE FICTION, the much-delayed and currently truncated (in terms of number of episodes scheduled for transmission) series of literary adapatations of which ABC will run four in August...the scheduled fourth is an Ellison adaptation, "The Discarded." Any comments from the assembled are welcome...and please let me know if you particularly don't wish to be quoted "over there" on my eventual post or posts about "The Discarded." Thanks.

Todd Mason

tip
anyone going to barnes and noble tonight should check out the remainder aisles for a scream in the dark, edited by mark gerald, originally titled murder plus. an article by Harlan from 1956, along with bloch, hammet, gardner, thompson and others. jz

WOO HOO!!!!...next best thing to DWST opening in the AM
http://pwbeat.publishersweekly.com/blog/2007/07/20/idw-teams-with-harlan-ellison/#more-3078....
I'll be all over amazon.com when it's out.

Brian wrote : "I've lost that childlike sense of wonder that would enable me to enjoy shittily-animated commercials for (admittedly ingenious) toys. Go ahead, pity me."

Heh. A couple years back, I stumbled on a re-run of the Justice League, a cartoon from the (early?) 80s. I used to _love_ that show and have never felt so old as when my eyes boggled at just how stilted the animation was and how badly drawn the characters were. It hurt.

Brian also wrote : "I liked the toys all right, because I knew what kind of engineering skill it took to design something that would fold from being a Mack truck into a big manlike machine. The toys were cool."

Since I was young when I liked them I never gave nearly enough thought to this but that is a compliment that stands even now; the designs were pretty brilliant. When a kid I just liked the idea of getting two toys (a robot and whatever it changed into) for the price of one.

HE autobiography
Dear Harlan;

You've included a lot of autobiographical material in many of your books. Have you ever considered writing a straight autobiography? Or for that matter, a crooked one... any such thing from you would be worth reading.

You must admit, your actual life is as fascinating as many of your stories (and probably as fantastical). I know an enormous number of people would love reading it; and it's hard to imagine any writer not enjoying writing one!

Dafydd

TONY RAVENSCROFT:

Yes, you may tell him, that is the way Ellison does it, because Ellison has been spending the last fifty-sixty years learning how to do from the ground up. It is not a method that can be utilized by most writers. I was a penny-a-word writer, working night and day for a pittance, and training myself as I went along. Just as I am a two-finger typist, so am I a sit-down-and-write-it storyteller. 85% of the magic I do, is possible only because I have been DOING IT for more than half a century. I trust my "on-board computer" implicitly, and it seldom lets me down, because we are a gestalt, a symbiotic arrangement. Only a jackass who believes if you clap real loud it'll save Tinker Bell's life would think emulating "The Ellison Method" would produce for anyone but Ellison anything but stuttering drivel. Tell your friend to find his own m.o. and to save his sanity by ceasing to use me as a model of anydamnthing.

All best otherwise, Yr. Pal, Harlan

Hi Harlan,

Just wanted to say I hope you're feeling well and that life is treating you decently.

That's all. Really.

Jon R. McKenzie
(Yeah, THAT one, from "The Hour That Stretches".)

Ohhh Shiznit,

Mea Culpa. I dropped this match down the throat of the gas can. I'm sorry.
( I need a smiley face with bright red cheeks and a guilty look to place here but alas!)
Yer pal ( with the expression of a sheep killin' dawg),
Cindy

Larry: in 2004, I got one of those College Repug jugheads to show his/their true stripes on a board. He was about to graduate with his JD, & I pointed out that the JAG always needs more good young shysters. He demurred. I asked him to explain to the gathered his reasons to "support the war" yet to avoid actually doing anything aside from flapping his rubbery lips.

He replied -- & I am not paraphrasing -- "I'm not that stupid."

Kinda said it all, really.

----------

Goldberg: welcome to the club. Sounds like we made similar decision sets. In my case, I'm certain it would indeed have been FAR more stupid if I'd bucked the rising tsunami of BS... but that didn't make the experience any more fun. If I possessed any wisdom whatsoever, I'd offer to lay it at your feet.

----------

M. Ellison: I hate to ask favours, so I'm going to offer this more for your amusement.

I'm a troublemaker on a wannabee-writer board, particularly when going up against certain "natural writing" advocates, as I'm from the "whatever works" school that includes occasional use of severe outlining, the Burroughsian Cuisinart approach, & bibliomancy.

Anyway, another regular there is a fan of yours, & I enjoyed the irony as he said (okay, paraphrasing now) "Harlan Ellison doesn't ever revise. He just sits down & writes a story, beginning to end. I've seen him do it."

Sure, I know he's muddles your store-window writing with your daily practise. But I'm idly (albeit persistently) curious as to whether you've encountered this before, & what your definitive response would be to the "one pass, no revising" advocates. Hopefully, you at least get a chortle from it.

----------

minor "Transformers" aside: the original designer of "Dungeons & Dragons," Dave Arneson, in the mid-1980s settled assorted lawsuits with Gary Gygax, then-owner of its publisher, TSR. It was rumoured to be on the order of $18 million. Dave started Adventure games & burned through his settlement in a few short years. One story goes that he was offered exclusive Western Hemisphere distribution of all toys & derivative doodads, forever, of a certain plastic robot toy that was hot in Japan at the time. For like $1.5 million. "Nah, it'll never catch on."

(Who the heck is Michael Bay, & why should I take his name as some sorta weird hallmark? Hell, give me "Steven Sondheim's TRANSFORMERS" or "Luis Bunuel's TRANSFORMERS" & I'm there....)

(And I too am wondering how cheated some kids will feel when they can't fold their nifty scale-model semi rig into a Corvette in the same scale -- when a "live action" film has more problems with basic laws of physics than Wyle E Coyote, it shoulda maybe stuck to being a cartoon.)

Brian Siano said
"A number of my fannish friends are a year or two younger than I am, which seems to be crucial in some ways; I saw _Star Wars_ when I was 14, and liked it a lot, but I was old enough to know it wasn't a patch on _2001_ as far as science fiction went. My friends saw it when they were 12... and ever since, George Lucas has enjoyed a stature comparable to the Apostle Paul's in their imaginations."

AND

"But there's something about the new _Transformers_ movie that really bugs me. It's partly that the coverage actually raves that Michael Bay made it..."
=====
First --- The different ages of children/very young adults become much more defined the more one studies them. I spoke with my friend Woody the other day about his daughter, now three, about disciplining a young child. At two, she didn't understand punishment, just that Mommy or Daddy was acting oddly. At three, she understands she did something wrong and is losing a privelege as punishment, although I don't to what degree she understands.

"What is the Golden Age of Comics? 12." What is any young persons Golden Age? 12. (Or about then) As the person gets into the teens, everything starts to change. Same as how I noticed that at about the age of 20, a young woman's face changes considerably. Can't explain what changes, just that the look alters to the better.

Second---dare I mention the dreaded Autuer Theory? (Discussion of such is over at the other place.) 99% of the time, I require the movies I watch to have a sensible plot. It has to engage me. If a director doesn't engage me for 2 movies in a row, I usually dismiss him at "not for me". Pearl Harbor, The Amityville Horror (Based on a true story!---my friend Eric said, "Well, it's based on a story.") true disasters both, and nothing else of his looks interesting at all. I'm afraid Michael Bay has the Kiss of Death when it comes to movie making. Perhaps one day he will be equate to Ed Wood.

Where Brian Confesses to the Failure of his Imagination
A number of my fannish friends are a year or two younger than I am, which seems to be crucial in some ways; I saw _Star Wars_ when I was 14, and liked it a lot, but I was old enough to know it wasn't a patch on _2001_ as far as science fiction went. My friends saw it when they were 12... and ever since, George Lucas has enjoyed a stature comparable to the Apostle Paul's in their imaginations.

I also missed the Transformers craze. I liked the toys all right, because I knew what kind of engineering skill it took to design something that would fold from being a Mack truck into a big manlike machine. The toys were cool. The show never grabbed me; I never even knew what Optimus Prime was until they did gags about him on _Family Guy_. But I never watched the show.

So when I read about how important it was for fans to have Peter Cullen do the voice of OP, and what the show "meant" to generations of American kids, well, I kinda shake my head a little. So okay, I've lost that childlike sense of wonder that would enable me to enjoy shittily-animated commercials for (admittedly ingenious) toys. Go ahead, pity me.

But there's something about the new _Transformers_ movie that really bugs me. It's partly that the coverage actually raves that Michael Bay made it, because he does big cool explosions and empty effects movies. It's partly that it's still not much more than a way to sell (admittedly ingenious) toys.

It's partly because, when I see the commercials of massive machines flipping around, transforming into sports cars and trucks while bashing the shit out of hospitals and trade centers, I can't _not_ think that these are every bit as stupid as those big-bug movies of the past. Tons of metal don't move like that. Machines that size'd expend immense energies just standing upright, let alone doing Bruce Lee moves. Their feet'd collapse under their own weight. It's still a cartoon.

And no matter how "perfect" the effects look, they're still cheap. It takes skill and work to design toys that transform: but here, all we see is a blur of metal shards and dust, and suddenly a forty-story machine is folded into a truck, a Corvette, or an iPhone. So the movie looks like two hours of watching shrapnel spin around; as though Earl Scheib'd done a number on a squadron of dervishes.

I must be turning into an old fart. Can't enjoy big explosions, and the torture-porn craze of _Saw_ and _Hostel_ left me really cold and uninterested.

Mr. Newton,

**Shagin : I, too, loved the Transformers when I was a kid, and that's the whole reason I went to see the movie. But please, in the name of all that is good and geek, let us not start debating the flick's merits or lack thereof. I had the good fortune to read an email from a friend that contained the following snippets which ultimately made me enjoy the movie more than I would've otherwise. Let me know if you'd like me to send you a copy - although I'm posting this as a rebuttal of sorts, odds are good that you'd get a kick out of it.**

Not a problem, send the email along.

As for the movie, merits or no aside, I had no problem with the thought of giant alien robots kicking the shit out of everything or even the premise of the plot -- after all, it's TRANSFORMERS and the plot has to fit into 27 minutes even if they turn it into a movie. What has scarred me for life is the horror that was everything else about the movie.

Pardon me...I need to scour my brain a bit more. Kept getting flashes from the movie.

*****

Mark,

Here's hoping that things work out for the remainder of the divorce proceedings, if there are further steps to be taken. having been there, I offer my support and a chance to vent. Drop a line.

Woohoo!
So...not only do I have the new Harry Potter coming via the mail, but a HERC RABBIT HOLE? I have reason to stalk the mailman again!

Thanks for the heads-up, Susan.

Yrs,
Bill

Harlan, all I can say is I should have listened to more of your counsel on divorce. Suffice it to say that I am paying a heavy price for trying to be a nice guy and making the process as easy on my children as possible.

It is an unfortunate reality that when one side takes the high road in a dispute, and one takes the low road, that those attempting to be the better party usually comes out on the short end of the stick.

I am not one to moan about my misfortunes. I accept my errors and will learn from them; I simply wish I had heeded advice given earlier so the lesson might not be quite as painful

On a completely different topic, the link to the article and video Larry referenced can be found here:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/max-blumenthal/generation-chickenhawk-t_b_56676.html

Verisimilitude--or Else!
I'll maintain, to my dying day, that "Verisimilitude--or Else!" would make a great bumper sticker.

That said, I urge one and all to see a brief video, "Generation Chickenhawk," by Max Blumenthal at the Huffington Post. After visiting Arlington National Cemetery, where many unlucky veterans of the quagmire in Iraq lie freshly buried, Blumenthal goes to a hotel across the street, where a meeting of college Republicans is being held.

Blumenthal interviews them about the war in Iraq, and finds that they unanimously support it. But when he asks if they are planning on joining the fight, they just as unanimously answer in the negative.

Why are these staunch patriots, these gung-ho defenders of the Bush Doctrine, these godly guys--passing up an opportunity to kill terrorists for Christ? The most popular excuse was "Medical reasons." A few others offered more ambiguous evasions: as one reluctant warrior said, "I don't think it's for me."

(Ah, but it IS for the hundreds of thousands of American troops who have served--sometimes several tours--in Iraq; it IS for the 27,000-plus wounded; and it WAS for the over 3,600 dead.)

How I wish that one--just ONE--of those John Wayne wannabes had told the truth, had said, loudly and proudly, "Hell no, I won't go! Why should I? After all, the poor white trash and the niggers and the spics are fighting for me." Right you are, pilgrim. Just like the millions of other men who fought for Marion Morrison in WWII; just like the millions of other men who fought in Vietnam for Dick Cheney, who had "other priorities" than killing commies for Christ. (Gee, I can't think of a higher priority than that!)

I'll not disrespect our president, who served honorably in the Texas Air National Guard. Thanks to him and all the other brave, courageous, and bold flyboys in his unit, nary a single gook warplane encroached upon the peaceful skies of the Lone Star state. Take that, John Kerry!

It's a pity I don't believe in Hell, as it would comfort me no end to think that, someday, all the goddamned chickenhawks will be frying there.

Rabbit Hole #42 has just been mailed.

Enjoy. Susan

I will honor the request of OUR GENIAL HOST and not discuss the Health thing except in one tangential way. In discussing the "system" we have here in our glorious CEO's paradise, the words "Darwinism" or "Darwinian" have been much bandied about.

Now everyone knows what this means, i.e., the "LEX TALIONIS", "nature red in tooth and claw", the "war of all against all", etc, etc.

However, just for the record I would like to point out that a careful examination of "nature" reveals just as many instances of cooperation in evolution as competition.

Preciseness in language is very important and the war against the cliche is never ending.

So watch it people.

Steve, I'll blearily "Hear, Hear!" that one, buddy.

HEALTH CARE TOPIC THREAD: Please see the "The Moore the Merrier" thread in the GENERAL TOPICS forum.

http://harlanellison.com/heboard/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1918
_________________________________________

It's Thursday and my morning coffee is from a little stand downstairs that is rated "fair", at best. Likewise, there's a blip in the air these days. Something's not a-right with the world. The "vibe", if you will indulge me in a bit of new-age-y terminology, is off just a touch. Not just for me and mine, personally and professionally, but for the world at large from all reports and evidence. Full moon without the full moon. Strange Days.

So, in that regard, A general observation and backhanded compliment is due.

It is a credit to our patron that so many people of such passion come to comment on these boards. Yes, certain topics become headbanging migraines at a point, but the detail and thought that goes into the debates is really a step above your usual posting board intellect.

That this board veers from relentless debates on everything from the artistic merits of the Transformers movie (and I gotta ask if Keith Cramer's seen it yet???) to heated disagreements regarding the US healthcare system -- voicing opinions across the political and economic spectra -- does this place honor.

What RICK and HARLAN hath wrought is a very cool place indeed. I do not mean this to come across as self-congratulatory or pretentious -- but having seen and read the level of discourse on boards dealing with everything from professional stock-market and travel boards to those dealing with celebrity fandom and personal lifestyle issues, the posts here in Webderland stand head and shoulders above the usual discourse on the net.

Just thought I should contribute something useful for a change.
____________________________________

Lastly, a movie review.

RATATOUILLE.

Amazing. Fun. Humorous. Best from Pixar yet. Loved it. Completely.

Unca Harlan,

Many thanks for asking the deep thinkers to take-it-elsewhere. My tiny brain was this close to exploding.
Ahhh, now I can hear the birds singing once again, instead of all that chirping. (No offense intended, you know I love you guys.)

Shagin : I, too, loved the Transformers when I was a kid, and that's the whole reason I went to see the movie. But please, in the name of all that is good and geek, let us not start debating the flick's merits or lack thereof. I had the good fortune to read an email from a friend that contained the following snippets which ultimately made me enjoy the movie more than I would've otherwise. Let me know if you'd like me to send you a copy - although I'm posting this as a rebuttal of sorts, odds are good that you'd get a kick out of it.

"...the line of demarcation is really going to come down to how you walk into this. If you can't fully wrap your mind around and really commit yourself to the idea that you're about to watch a film in which robots from another planet come to Earth and then transform into cool looking cars, jets and helicopters before transforming back in order to pummel the living shit out of one another, then odds are you're gonna have issues with what you might refer to as 'The Plot'.

"If you actually think for one second that going into a Michael Bay movie about giant fucking robots is going to have (a plot) - if you are somehow holding onto the delusion that there will be any kind of complexity in this - then you are about to find yourself sorely disappointed.

"What it all boils down to is this: When someone tries to point out a logic flaw or the inherent silliness of a certain reaction, situation or product placement, you gotta ask yourself one question. Was that before or after the giant fucking robots from another planet showed up to kick the shit out of each other? Because if you can somehow manage your way past that conceit, and not any of the others, you've kind of missed the point."

Tom Galloway,

A very objective, even-handed reply to your obtuse and tired comment waits for you over on the board.

I am a child of the 80s; what little I would consider good about my teen years was spent in the passionate embrace of television's attempts at warping my hormone infused imagination so I would hound my parents into buying me the latest gee-gaw or bit of mindless tripe. Too bad for the moguls of marketing, I was more interested in pouring my soul onto the page in the hopes that someone would pay me for the honor. That being said, I did have my occasional boob tube pleasures...Transformers being one of them. Watched the show religiously, even when they brought in that ridiculous pink female autobot. Cheered at the voice of Leonard Nimoy in the original animated theater release.

That being said...

Hubby and I saw TRANSFORMERS this evening. Only SHOWGIRLS, with its 2 hrs. 17 mins. of boring tits, has proven itself to be more of a disappointment than that film. Please excuse me while I gouge my eyes out and scour my brain with bleach in the hopes of purging any trace of the experience.


S.

Relax, Harlan, relax....
Harlan,

Have no fear. Keith is to the rescue!

(Hey, stop backing up. Come back over here.)

An anecdote. I recently went to the Netherlands with my girlfriend Crystal. One late night we decided to go to one of the live sex shows in Amsterdam's Red Light district. We were not drinking, and were not high: it just seemed like a good idea at the time. Most of the tour books mention the shows, but they also advise toursists to leave the Red Light district by midnight, because that's when the seedier folk come out to play. We went in to the show at around 11:00 P.M., and did not leave until nearly 2:00 A.M.

I forget the canal. We left the show and started walking back toward the Central train station, Crystal slightly ahead of me, when I found myself cutting through a group of 4 black guys. I'm fairly certain they were NOT African Americans. Crystal had gone around them, but I had a bull-dog's demeanor that night, and I went through. One of the guys, about my height, grabbed my shoulder and spun me around. Behind him, a canal. To my (now) left, another of his friends. To my right (away from the canal) the other two...bigger guys.

He says, "Hey, wanna buy some cocaine? Wanna buy some blow? Make you fuck like a black man!"

Of all the things going through my mind at that instant, I said, "Why the hell would I want to do THAT?!" And turned around and began walking away, but knowing I could put him in the canal, and maybe his friend, before getting the shit kicked out of me by his two other friends. The last I saw his face, he was stunned, not sure what to say, and his friends were laughing.

The train ride back to Rotterdam that night was tooo short. Way too short. Thankfully, there was only one other person in the car, and he was sleeping. I hope.

-Keith

RICK:

There are a couple of spam sucker posts today. Could you please excise them? Thank you.

(Sigh) I think it's time to move the health care discussion to one of those other chat threads outside the Pavillion, if y'all don't mind. I urge you to continue the exchanges, but just not right here, where I come to relax. I mean no offense, but would you find a comfy cozy drawing-room for these nice folks, Rick? Or whoever it is who creates such warm warrens.

Thank you again.

Yr. Pal, Harlan

The thing that bothers me about most of the posts below on universal health care is the frequent repetition that X got such and such care and it was "free".

It wasn't. Someone/thing paid for it. It didn't just pop into existence out of the fairy dust. One problem with health care is that pretty much everyone thinks they and everyone else should get what I call "Bill Gates level care"; the very best care possible, regardless of cost. And that just doesn't work economically. Even though I understand perfectly well the desire for such and why people view such as a right rather than a privilege. And health care resources are limited.

Don't get me wrong; I agree US health care is messed up. But I get very nervous when people argue that a fix is one where people get what's already (Medicare) making up a substantial and growing part of the budget for "free", since it's not. Reform discussion has to start with looking at costs, what's paid for, and where the money comes from and what it pays for. As relevant discussion, how is this different from taking one of Harlan's stories that's posted online and proclaiming that it was "free"?

Ray Bradbury and Fahrenheit 451
Interesting interview/article with/on Bradbury, who is still laying major whoopass down at almost 87:

http://www.laweekly.com/news/news/ray-bradbury-fahrenheit-451-misinterpreted/16524/

"Bradbury still has a lot to say, especially about how people do not understand his most literary work, Fahrenheit 451, published in 1953. It is widely taught in junior high and high schools and is for many students the first time they learn the names Aristotle, Dickens and Tolstoy.

Now, Bradbury has decided to make news about the writing of his iconographic work and what he really meant. Fahrenheit 451 is not, he says firmly, a story about government censorship. Nor was it a response to Senator Joseph McCarthy, whose investigations had already instilled fear and stifled the creativity of thousands.

This, despite the fact that reviews, critiques and essays over the decades say that is precisely what it is all about. Even Bradbury’s authorized biographer, Sam Weller, in The Bradbury Chronicles, refers to Fahrenheit 451 as a book about censorship.

Bradbury, a man living in the creative and industrial center of reality TV and one-hour dramas, says it is, in fact, a story about how television destroys interest in reading literature."

Weight Thymes. . .
Appologies if I came across as snarky earlier. But every country has its cultural nerve endings.

But I've had enough of Republicans pointing at the flaws in our system to justify the flaws in theirs. (Maybe it was the phrase "death sentence".) They'll have to look elsewhere for excuses. Because:

The Canadian system does have its troubles,

BUT. . .

It works. We are very happy with it.

There is a scene in "Sicko" where George HW Bush says: " You think socialized medicare is a good idea? Ask a Canadian!"

And the theatre errupted in laughter. It was HYSTERICAL.

Because the answer was one loud and unhesitant YES. People thank their lucky stars for it every day. It has its flaws of course, but we want to fix them. We do not want to exchange this system for free market Darwinism. The idea of turning poor away from hospitals is repugnant.

I don't get is this obsession with "choice". Going to a hospital isn't like shopping. I can't even decide what shirt to wear in the morning. I don't want to waste time choosing a doctor from a display counter, while figuring out what his/her rates are. I want someone in front of me right away who can tell me what's wrong with me.

I'm quite happy to have the government "stick" me with someone beause I know that person has been through Medical school and is qualified to practice. Standards at Canadian medical schools are as high as anywhere else and no one is allowed to practice who hasn't met those standards. To suggest it could be a "death sentence" to see one is more than a little insulting.

Finally, I will throw in my own annecdotal evidence (which I mentioned earlier).

Before she died, my grandmother got the best cancer care available. She got chemo, hospital time, medication, and rides in the ambulence. The doctors and nurses were the most caring and compassionate people anyone could have hoped for.

Didn't cost her a cent.

Didn't cost my family a cent. She didn't have to convince an insurence company that her old smoking habbit from thirty years ago was to blame. She was cared for.

Likewise, when my brother had a tumor removed from his leg, he got state of the art laser surgery to remove it,(in backwater Toronto) two days after he signed up.

Didn't cost him a cent.

Didn't cost our family a cent. And he didn't have to justify treatment to some HMO beaurocrat.

How much would you have paid?

Thank God we didn't have to "come up" with the money. We are not wealthy people: we would be on the streets now if they made us pay out of pocket. Mike might be hobbling on one foot now.

That is the horror of socialized medicine. That is the "death sentence" Canada will impose on you with our incompetent Government-appointed doctors.

That's why Americans were flocking up here for free flu-shots.

That's why my inbox is filled every day with promises of "cheap Canadian meds"

Argue for privatized healthcare all you want. But spare me the Red-Scare horror stories. There's nothing up here that's comparable with what happens down there.

-Steve AJ D.

PS. You need more Metal Frank.

The Tammy Faye Farewell Tour
Her weight down to a mere 65 pounds due to cancer, Tammy Faye Messner (formerly Bakker) will appear on THE LARRY KING SHOW Thursday night. My sympathy is hereby tendered unto the fading saint, and I confess to having been equally amused and irritated by her and her then hubby, Jim, as they, weeping and gnashing their teeth, with Tammy's mascara oozing darkly down her cheeks, beseeched the righteous rubes in their audience to SEND MONEY.

(Ah, the eighties were boon times for those of us whose guilty pleasure is watching paragons of piety fall from their holy eyries. First, Jim and Tammy; then Jerry Falwell was drawn into the imbroglio; and not long after, Jimmy Swaggart was found in the company of a lady of ill repute. Jimmy's tearful mea culpa was truly the stuff of comic genius. By the way: my sincere thanks to the ex-Rev. Ted Haggard and to US Senator Vitter for continuing this most fascinating of Christian traditions.)

I found a documentary about her (aptly titled THE EYES OF TAMMY FAYE) to be highly entertaining, and it revealed a woman who was far more progressive politically and theologically than I ever imagined. When Tammy passes, many things will be said of her, but I daresay the salient fact of her career will be overlooked by the solemn pundits: she was one-half of the most uproariously funny comedy team since, well, the Smothers Brothers and Rowan and Martin tickled our funny bones in the sixties. Sure, Jan and Paul Crouch get some laughs, but they're not in Jim and Tammy's league.

The Bakkers like will not be seen again. Amen.

Sicko

Just to pile on what others have said in defending the Canadian Health Care system.

My kidneys failed ~12 years ago. Bad, really bad. I was walking around with a blood pressure of 230/180 (Didn't know at the time) convinced I had the flu, actually feeling quite a bit better, and was going to the Dr. to get a note for the week of Uni classes I had missed.

The Dr. put my broke, student ass in the cab, paid the fare himself and sent me to the hospital. I was on table, with medication in me and a ridiculously qualified Nephrologist breaking the news to me less than 5 minutes after walking in the emergency room doors. The next morning I had a sub clavian (collarbone basically) catheter installed and I was on dialysis. Four days later I was on the operating table getting a venous shunt made of my own artery and vein to replace the temporary sub clavian as a input/output for dialysis. Nine months later I was on the table again getting a kidney (and another patient was getting the other) from an unfortunate car accident victim from two provinces away. Every year since then I have taken meds worth approx. $50,000.

I have paid my taxes and usually, but not always, a prescription fee of $5 when I pick up my dope every 3 months. Other than that I have paid nothing. Nothing.

Yes, we have wait lines for elective procedures and wait lines for equipment we don't have a lot of but you're never refused treatment because you can't afford it. If they can give it to you, they do, but sometimes you may have to wait.

We are always trying to get more of the budget into healthcare. It happens, slowly.

It's a GREAT system that we're always pushing to be better.

With regards to my condition specifically there needs to be more donors but that's not a policy issue it's a people issue. Sign that donor card/driver's licence boys and girls and don't let Jehovah/Jesus/Mohamed tell you need to keep those organs for after you're dead.

Rick - Your example makes precisely the argument for universal coverage that insurance companies need to hear. The abuse, on both sides, leads to the inefficiencies and unprofitabilities that are anathema to a shareholder-driven business model.

I've posted about being in the military's version of universal healthcare and it (used to be, pre-Bush) a model that worked. I am not sure if it would be worth examining that system and seeing what lessons could be learned -- nor do I know if most medical practitioners would be willing to change to that sort of a system.

Insurance firms would be able to maintain a GREATER degree of control under the circumstances, given that removing the profit motive from the medical field would reduce the abuse you cite. I don't begrudge a commercial business model for the insurance firms as much as I object to the running of medical facilities themselves for profit. In my opinion, allowing this sort of model is a sign the sate and federal governments are abrogating their responsibility to protect the public's health.

Here in the LA market we have had major issues with the for-profit firms failing to provide care for indigent patiets, and more reprehensibly, DUMPING those patients on Skid Row after they are treated. Again, a sign that for-profit models for hospitals are failing to fulfill their responsiblity to the public.

There are models that work (military, for instance) and there are profound reasons to consider change. Unlike Rob, I am fully covered -- though it takes a major bite out of my paycheck. But I recognize that the system is broken and in sincere need of evaluation. Insisting that for-profit works in a market-driven business economy ignores demonstrated reality.

Everyone seems so concerned about wait times and cost of insurance. I think the real problem is that WE are not the customers of the doctors, it's the insurance companies. THEY'RE the ones whom the doctors must please, as many have told me.

Before any changes get made to who pays in the system reforms need to be made as to WHAT gets paid. There were times when I was uninsured and invariably, after a visit to a hospital, the bills were padded beyond any sense of fairness or honesty. Because insurance companies aren't in the room with you, they don't know what happened, so they pay.

I've been billed for medications I was never given, two suture packs when only one was used, treatment for a fractured finger when the doctor told me there was no treatment, and on and on and on. This has happened at EVERY ONE of eight or nine hospitals I've been to in four or five states. I can only conclude that this is more or less a standard practice.

Writing letters to the offending parties got everything I ever questioned instantly wiped off the books, no questions asked. They know what's going on.

Before we move to a single payer system, or universal health care, or anything, we need to enforce an honest system where WHOMEVER pays is paying for actual services rendered.

And then we need to become the customers again, make it so the doctors are there to satisfy the patient's needs, not the insurance company's.

Cindy,


I can't afford medical insurance. (At least not yet). I had it for a year once. It was impossibly expensive. You pay huge monthly installments, you get turned down for specific types of coverage (this is, after all, a company looking for a profit; insurance companies don't MAKE profits by approving coverage, they make profit by DENYING it. How the hell else does a private enterprise stay afloat?), and you're restricted to offices they cover. The notion that insurance provides choice is a fallacy.

Recently I had a medical crisis. When my little problem led to 3 nights of lost sleep and a day off from work, the pain ever-increasing, I gave in and ran to the nearby clinic. They gave me 2 prescriptions - FREE - and the ailment is steadily going away. If it weren't for them I'd have lost more than a day of work.

They diagnosed my problem and took care of it in ONE day. FREE. I got 2 weeks of the necessary medication with the dosage instructions...FREE.

No doctor would have helped me without charging me up the ASS!

Sadly, THIS clinic - which receives both government funding and private funding - is one of the few still open in the city. I checked around last week and found 3 had closed or were at that point refusing new patients.

The system works FINE, fer chrissake, when it's not undermined by the corporate lobbyists, and sound bytes to hammer at the gullible, who take it whole forgetting that it is a profit-seeking entity that is putting out the myths, scare tactics, and propaganda.

The system - if people would wake up - COULD work FINE. You fund those clinics from both government grants and private donations, make sure the policies are drafted wisely and even-handedly, without personal biases on such issues as drug addiction or abortion (allowing the doctors to decide what's best for the patients), by some bill maker who really gives a damn (very few DO, and that's a serious problem) and knows what rules WORK...and the system can work FINE.

As for this cliche, "government doesn't give you choice" - well, that's not exactly true. I once complained about a doctor last year at the same clinic. They allowed me to consult a different one in the next appointment. Of course, these places rotate doctors, so normally you see a different one each time you go in, if some condition is being monitored with a prescription. Yet, I also found I could see the same doctor if I wanted to simply by getting his or her name for future appointments.

That's socialized medicine. When it's engineered properly, it WORKS.

Bottom line, there are people who CAN'T afford coverage. Some of those people could be critically ill, or dangerously ill as some bipolar victims can be. For those who can't get access to insurance, they need that clinic. Well, it's the only one left open in this area and that means fewer in town get access to such a facility. Why? Because cuts were made so that wealthy people in the state could be happy.

The one thing left I'd like to urge: before or after you look at Sicko, view Bowling For Columbine (I'm ASSUMING you haven't seen it. If I'm wrong, you may let me know). It is Michael Moore's personal sentiment about a tragic condition in this country, but the data he provides is undeniable and alarming. He focuses on one of the biggest problems underlying these issues: FEAR being used to SELL. Big companies using sound bytes and lobbies to sway uninformed masses with half-truths, non-truths, and contemptible lies so that they can thrive in profits; the GUN lobby is quite comparable in its selling tactics to the insurance industry, as it tells you what to fear most if you don't buy what they have to offer. We also see what's going on in Canada, in both rural and urban regions. Moore's film also demonstrates powerfully the utter indifference many wealthy have to the plight of the poor, and deadly tragedies such rifts often lead to. Take a look at it. And remember such beacons as Dick Clark and Charlton Heston, products