Unca Harlan's Art Deco Dining Pavilion

Archive - 7/21/2004 to 9/28/2004

Unca Harlan's Art Deco Dining Pavilion

On the subject of Christian values . . . time to indulge in the sin of gluttony! :) Happy Thanksgiving to all.

Hmm.. I don't think *everyone* in Texas is bad, but I don't much care for the overall culture there. Maybe I could stand Austin if the weather weren't so hot. Austin has a big high tech industry and many people there are transplants. (I have also heard it is one of the more book-reading cities in America, but don't have the actual statistics.)Hmm, Houston is also home ot the NASA Johnson Space Center, so they can't be all illiterates there either (well they'd better not...)

As for Arizona, it's sort of a libertarian haven. I know of people who moved there from California just to get away from gun laws. They tend to live more in the outback areas than Phoenix though.

I agree with PAB about Karla Faye Tucker; you don't have to believe in God to believe there IS such a thing as religious conversion. Spiritual experiences may or may not come from outside oneself (I guess that depends on whether you are theist or atheist) but whole books have been written on it by psychologists such as William James, and even scientists who study the biology of what happens in the brain in "spiritual" people. Was Tucker's genuine? Well only she and her God knew that. Commuting her sentence might have been appropriate but no, society should not trust such a person enough to actually turn them loose. I looked it up on the Crime Library site (wonderful stuff on there, long articles on everybody from Lizzie Borden to Jack the Ripper to the "Blood Countess" Elizabeth Bathory...brr) The interesting thing is that the brother of one of her victims, who had been full of anger and wanting to kill her himself, ALSO had a born-again experience and ended up forgiving her (although some other victims' relatives did want her dead.)

Funny that Bush, who could have granted clemency, claims to be oh-so-born-again himself. Perhaps he believes more in an Old Testament God (an eye for an eye) than the New Testament God of love.

Cindy, I do understand your rage, though. We're only human.

The story of Cindy versus the Texas Cops is starting to look like a never-ending soap opera, and the plot twists get uglier...Cindy, you should think hard on Lee's advice about plans for the long term.

Happy Thanksgiving everyone.

Kristin

ARGGGHHH! I'm off line for a few days, and the posts multiplied like bunnies! Now I have to go back and read everything just to catch up. As of right now, my eyes are swimming and my head is reeling. But before I get back to reading all that I missed (man, Cindy, you've written some mini novels while I've been gone--I'm gonna be here a while) Happy Thanksgiving!

Were the United States governed by Christian principles, our President would have publically forgiven Al-Qaeda for bombing the WTC and the Pentagon, and destroying 3000 lives. He would not have sought revenge, but offered his love to those who hate us.

Since I strongly doubt anyone on this board, including myself, was willing to turn their cheek on that one, I think it's safe to claim that there are no true Christians here. I'd be interested in seeing some contrary arguments on this point.

Let me be as blunt as I can be: Texas is a cesspool of bad drugs and even badder vibes; the cowboy hats give me the impression that those people want to live in a past world that know longer exists. Law and order are just animal droppings near the bolt guns, at the endless bull killing stations. Those red state yahoos drink too much cheap beer, and seem to all shower in the pissings of departed spirit beasts. Our Cindy, thankfully, made it out of the stone pond with a head on her shoulders, and a heart in her ample chest. For that we can only say amen.

---------------

Todd, you can have Phoenix, this place is a shithole. I'm going to San Diego. What a dreary desert piss pot this burg is.

Cindy,

I’d like to ask whether you have any plan for obtaining legal counsel long term? You say you can’t pay attention, but are you getting anywhere with the various pro bono routes? Also, do you have a clearly defined goal or outcome that you envision? If you can’t express it in one thin paragraph (including a lasting result, the means of obtaining it and a realistic timing ) then you are probably spread too thin to achieve meaningful change.

My impression at this point is of a courageous pit bull launching itself boldly at a pack of wolves. There is a sprawl to the scope of your activities that seems to pit you against many people and several systems simultaneously. It would be hard enough to bring down one bad cop.

One thing about dirty rat bastards that have survived for a while: they are never as stupid as they are mean.

Cindy: I am still not persuaded that Hector is right and the police officer is wrong. I can see a half-dozen reasons why Hector would lie but none why the cops would frame Hector. As for his lengthy sentence, well, that's Texas for you.

Also, I know all about Karla Faye Tucker. She had a serious drug problem and was under the influence of an insane cocktail of substances when she committed the murders. Her life was a mess, though that's no excuse. She belonged in prison for the rest of her life, but I do believe she was reformed and wouldn't kill again.

Tucker found Jesus and was born again in prison. You believe in that kind of thing, I don't, but I do believe that, under extreme duress, people can undergo radical conversions of worldview (just like Saul on the road to Damascus). Bush also claims to believe in the healing power of faith, and credits Jesus with curing his alcoholism and drug problem. He believes in God's power for HIM, that his past wrongs should be forgotten, but when Tucker claims to have experienced same, he mocks her in a very public way. I call that hypocrisy bordering on sick. I also call a Christian who supports the death penalty a hypocrite, because I think it's very clean that Jesus was not in favor of punishment like that-- remember, forgiveness is at the heart of the Gospels. Redemption is always possible for Christians, but if you kill someone, you take away that chance for reconciliation.

I guess I will just never understand Bush or Texas. And I'm really OK with that.

PAB

I would just like to extend my best wishes to everyone who visits the Art Deco Dining Pavilion and hope we all have a happy Thanksgiving.

With thanks for all the intellectual provocation,
Mark

That should have read, " He is a physician and he communicates in those TERMS."

Sorry, didn't want y'all to be danglin' there.

:)

RYAN--SLEEPLESS NIGHTS CONFIRMED.

Thank you.

KRISTIN--GOT THE CHECK.

Again, thank you.

Susan

Holy SHIT!!!!

I nearly CHOKED over that one, David-- the tea went spewing all over the table when I looked at the definition of that word at;

http://www.britannica.com/search?query=paresis&submit=Find&source=MWTEXT

It must have been a "God thing" because THAT one was seriously out of my league. I'm silky, but I'm not that smooth. I'd be more likely to resort to an elegant understatement like, " Hey Asshole".

I do apologize. There is a simple explaination. My brain picks things up and sorts them randomly. If I see a new word I reflexively ponder it and try to remember how it looks for future reference. The embarrassing truth is; I am a naturally bad speller. My FATHER wrote a manuscript based on his life. He is a physician and he communicates in those. Daddy had a physically beautiful Uncle, Uncle Glen Hailes, who feasted wantonly at the Luby's cafeteria of available women in Mississippi and New Orleans, back in the 20's. Uncle Glen contracted tertiary syphilis-- I know, it's an ugly family skeleton--but I'll gladly rattle it out of the closet to ameliorate any damage that may have been caused by my unfortunate mental glitch. Eventually, Uncle Glen was paralyzed by the disease ( sadly he committed suicide). The word "paresis" was used by my father in the manuscript which I read three months ago. I saw your name and my brain recognized it and branded it familiar. I never went back to check.

I'm sorry.

I didn't think I was debating anything regarding Hector's trial or conviction. I am only answering questions as they come from the bright minds here-- like yours. If you know everything you need to about the case and have made up your deeecide, that is fine.

I'm not worried about my credibility here-- those who know me know my heart is in the matter and my motives are pure. They won't try to attack me because they think I'm wrong, they'll post the flaws they see regarding my beliefs-- just as they do when I go off on a Jesus tangent or a Bush soap box.

Your admonishments aside; I will continue to turn over rocks looking for keys that may or may not exist in Hector's case. I'm driven in the matter and can't stop until I have an answer one way or the other. If he's guilty, I'll figure it out. If he isn't, then somebody should have been doing what I am --all along.

If I would censor myself here in the Pavillion, because I am afraid you won't think I'm a credible person then I have reduced myself to the sort of tits on a turtle human being that can be of no use to anyone. Every convict should have at least one soul who sets out to find the truth-- on the chance ( even an outside one like Hector's) that he is innocent.

Hector's attorney of record was an Hispanic man from South Texas who believed he had the case won before he started. It was Merle, who stood in for that attorney on one occasion who said he would have tried to get him to take a plea bargain because he knew it was an exercise in futility to present it before a Mason County Jury-- because the people here think-- right or wrong- the way you seem to.

Cindy

SUSAN:

Any copies of Sleepless Nights left?

If so, is $35.48 correct for a California address?

As always, thanks.

--
Ryan

Cindy,
First off,I assume that your misspelling of my last name was an unfortunate typographical error and not some coy attempt at insulting me which it could be construed as (if you are unclear as to what I mean, go back to your pervious response to me and look up the word that resulted in your misspelling). I am sure you are mature enough to not resort to name calling, even name calling that would include "clever" wordplay.
Now that I have that out of the way.

I feel that further commenting and debate of the finer points of Hector Berrelles' trial and conviction are pointless, and irrelevant to your allegations of malfeasance on the part of the Mason County Sheriff's Department.Mr Berrelles chose to ignore advice of counsel and proceeded with a jury trial. Mr Berrelles and his counsel were unable to impeach the testimony of an undercover police officer. In the end Mr Berreles is solely
responsible for the outcome of the trial. Making this matter your cause du jour only damages your credibility and takes focus away from the alledged situation in Mason County. Also while you did not come out and state that an active duty police officer employed by the town of Brady Texas is a drug abuser, your walks like a duck, quacks like a duck type analogy comes very close to being libelous in nature.This is also damaging to your credibility and call into question the validity of your claims of wrongdoing on the part of the Mason County Sheriff's Department.
While you may have the best of intentions in regard to Hector Berrelles, his situation is beyond your control now ,and you should focus more on gathering substantive proof in regard to the claims you have made against the Mason County Sheriff's Department than diverting your efforts towards a lost cause.
D. W. Pareis

Finding and Bad Writing
Doug: Sigh. I WISH i had a day job. I suppose I could seek out every yellow page and website listing of a particular kind of business, but how could I buy their wares? (Do you know where to get obsolete Japanese bicycle parts? The Italian Campagnolo ones are collectors items, but who in the world sells used Shimano geartrains? My dad has these oldish bikes...10 or 12 speed with 2 in front and 5-6 in back. He registered on ebay to look for stuff, but I don't think it's around.)

Adam: Have you thought about entering the Bulwer-Lytton Contest? You know, the big annual worst-opening-sentence thing?

all right, I admit it I keep laughing at those HORRID Harlan-title parodies. But I agree with Jan: we should quit tormenting the poor guy. How long before we can say "all right Harlan, it's safe to come back now?"

Kristin

Oh shoot, somehow I truncated my message to PAB...

What I said pertained to your statement, " Defend Bush and Texas all you want-- I think the whole thing is flagrantly immoral. It strikes me as odd that you'd support the prison system until one of your friends is trapped in its web. Everyone in jail is someone's friend. It makes me ill."

I support the prison system (for the most part) it's the JUDICIAL system I find fault with--and only part of that. Also, for the record; I had never met Hector before his trial last week. I was covering the trial for the radio station or I would have never known anything about him or his plight. Same with Sam and David and Ricky and Catherine and on and on and on-- they broke my heart and I felt sympathy. Who wouldn't? None is perfect--least of all me. The things they have endured should not be suffered by anyone. A person would have to be made of stone to look in their faces and not feel pierced by their helplessness. If you were here- you'd react the same...just as you did for those children.

Cindy

ALL HAIL THE MIGHTY STATE

Hi Kris,
Thanks for the contact info. I enjoyed your post. We're the lucky ones. I grew up in Austin. Where'd you live when you were a kid?

Cindy


Hello Stuart,
:)

I was hunting around for some type of standard protocol for domestic narcotics task force interdiction. Your contention made perfect sense but I wanted to see if I could find any specific protocol in Texas concerning those field kits and how they should be disposed of after the fact.

INSTEAD, I stumbled upon THE MOST AMAZING THING. It's a story by the Houston Press. It specifically lists the Southwest Texas Drug Task force ( which was the agency the woman cop in Hector's case worked for) . The piece cites a cluster of objectionable cases her task force worked in Brady and other areas. The woman cop is now a Brady City Police Officer. Check it out-- they had 32 people in a federal housing authority rounded up on narcotics charges.

http://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v01/n1638/a01.html?2423

I know my post was painfully lengthy, but you must have missed the place where I said there were other aspects of the officer that played into my assessment. I did not state they can always obtain prints from plastic bags, I said they can and stated she should have at least sent the plastic off for testing, whether she thought anything would come of it or not. There should have been some sort of indication that she had made an attempt to link Hector to the crime with SOME physical evidence.

I didn't say the task force cop was a drug addict. I also gave more background than just her discomfiture at the question as possible indicators that she could have been something other than the uniform she wore conveyed. I said, she looked like a user and I described the features that could bear up such an assessment. I you're a cop or an attorney dealing with these types of cases- meth or crack in particular the physical characteristics of women who partake do, at some point, appear to be universal.

OH! If you read the article at the link above, you will also see mention of the Permian Basin Drug Task force ( toward the end of the piece). I told y'all about that entity before. That was the one Governor Bush took apart for corruption. It is also the very organization that we inherited the cop in the Omar case from... the one who is now leaving town. We still don't know what happened to all the guns the Mason Sheriff's department confiscated while he was Chief Deputy -- over 30 that I know of.

Under the circumstances and given what I have learned about Texas Narcotics Task Forces over the past eight years or so, I don't think it is was ridiculous for the attorney for the denfense to ask if the cop had done meth. He would have been remiss had he not.

Here's another one...


http://216.109.117.135/search/cache?p=Texas++task+force+protocol+for+Drug+Interdiction&ei=UTF-8&fl=0&u=www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v01/n1841/a02.html%3F1484&w=texas+task+force+protocol+drug+interdiction&d=56C2F83BC9&icp=1&.intl=us

I do appreciate your comments a great deal and as I said your points on the missing field test kit were excellent.


Still, feeling pretty secure about my instincts at this point,

Cindy



I'm glad you brought that up, Paula,

I believed Hector because his statement that he had not done THIS bad thing rang true, to me. I didn't believe the cop primarily because she had conflicting statements both written and oral on how the deal went down. She also made that statement that you can't get prints off a plastic bag. All of the missing pieces left enough of a reasonable doubt that I thought the jury fumbled the ball.

I knew a little about task forces in Texas-- not the Southwest Texas Task Force, one that served the 33rd Judicial District before the County transferred itself to the 198th. That task force had one member close to the top who told a local girl if she ratted him out and told what she knew about him and his men, they would " find her in dumpsters all over Austin".

What I didn't know was what I found this morning and posted for Stuart-- here it is again for you;

http://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v01/n1638/a01.html?2423

I was flying largely by instinct but I think this underscores what I suspected. She should not have been able to convict Hector with nothing other than her own testimony. Her case should have been lost based on what she FAILED to show-- one tiny speck of physical evidence or any corroborating report from another officer.

I don't feel animosity toward cops-- I love cops.. good cops. I've been married to one for a dozen years and there is no one I have more respect for. Through him I have met countlesss PEACE officers who deserve to and rightly, wear the badge. Perhaps it is precisely because I know all about the honor and courage and the KINDNESS of GOOD officers that I have no respect and less regard for bad ones. THAT is why I jump at something like this. Hector and Sam and Omar and David and Ricky and Catherine and on and on. If they can do it to them-- they can do it to YOU, or ME or ________(fill in the blank with the name of someone you care about).

It's fucked up and it's not right. I've said it before, I was a divorced, single mom from 1984-1992) I actually had a baby in 1987 when I wasn't married at all ( I know I'm scandalous).
Society tends to frown on that sort of thing as well. It was rough sometimes but I learned some things. One of the most important was there are people you would never think of as cruel, who do vicious things to people who can not protect themselves. I've been on the receiving end of that type of activity. I'm not any more, but I still have the same reaction when I percieve it may be happening to others; my stomach feels like it's falling down an open elevator shaft from about the 75th floor. THAT is the dog I have in the race-- I identify with people who are persecuted or abused. It pisses me off-- in no small way. Clergy, cops, bad lawyers without scruples, insurance creeps, neighbors-- I've been on the recieving end. It isn't something you forget.

In the case you questionl it isn't that it is impossible that Hector was dealing again-- it is that she didn't PROVE that he was. Her own testimony coupled with the yawning gaps in her case utterly impeached her credibility in my eyes.

Onward to your next topic du jour;

Bush mocked Karla Faye Tucker's plea for her life, mimicking her words, " Don't kill me!" in a sarcastic way because Tucker was a monster who showed no mercy for the young woman hiding under the covers in terror for her life. Instead she chose to hack at her over and over and over again with that pick axe until the girl was a bloody paste between the sheets. Tucker later told her friends that the excitement (of chopping that girl to bits) gave her a triple orgasm.

I suppose it seemed ridiculous to Bush that Tucker would be say anything as remarkably hypocritical as " Please don't kill me!" when you stack it next to what Tucker did to land herself on death row.

Here is the background on what she did;

http://216.109.117.135/search/cache?p=Karla+Faye+Tucker&sm=Yahoo%21+Search&toggle=1&ei=UTF-8&u=www.crimelibrary.com/classics3/tucker&w=karla+faye+tucker&d=09581E6218&icp=1&.intl=us

I don't see that reverence was warranted in her case; she was a carniverous insect. Bush's wise crack, while ill advised, was not so outrageous.

Next...

You really can't blame the escalation of the Texas crime rate on George W.

While we are leading the nation in crime, we are also leading in migratory criminals. According to the U.S. Census Bureau; the population of Texas has grown at twice the rate of the rest of the Country. In the ten years between 1990 and 2000, our population jumped by 22.8% ( the national growth average was 13.1).

You were right about our crime rate rising above that of California, their increase in population was only .5% over the national average, coming in at 13.6%. But here in Texas we've had more new people and more new criminals committing more new crimes. While we have been working hard to execute the murderers of the bunch just as fast as we can-- we do seem to be having a little difficulty keeping up with the ever growing supply.

For the record; I don't think the death penalty is a deterent, but it sure as hell cures recidivism.

Here's the website for the U.S. Census Bureau. You can check out the facts regarding Texas and California, or any state you like.

http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/index.html


br>


Joel,

I'm not sure how long they've been doing it but check this out. You mentioned it had been three years since you served on the jury. Maybe this is relatively new technology?

http://www.forensic.e-symposium.com/articles/e2003/oct3.html

It wouldn't be your job to keep abreast of such things but I would think that a Narcotics Task Force member would be up on anything regarding prints on plastic bags, since that seems to be what dealers do a lot of their packaging in. It might still be difficult to get the prints off a plastic bag, but it is do-able. Any attempt at all would have shown at least some effort on her part to secure some physical evidence. Not that they needed it they had all the proof the jury required-- he's Mexican American and he's an ex-con, convicted for a similar crime years ago, but convicted nonetheless. She was a cop-- in a police uniform- who are they going to believe? I guess they showed us.

Cindy


Adam Troy Castro, you made me laugh my ASS off with that story.

fingerprints and baggies....
Gotta concur about the difficulty in lifting prints off Baggies and other such material. I served on a jury three years ago where this question was brought up and the judge said [after the trial, when they're allowed to comment on the proceedings] that it's very difficult at best.

Least Ellison: "While addressing Christmas cards the other day..."

Well, mine was submitted in the spirit of pastiche for the period 1965-75. For 1955-60 I'd have submitted SLICK CHICKS AND SICK TWISTS. For 1961-65 perhaps INCISION DEPTH. But after '75 it's really not possible to do Ellison pastiche of titles. Or at least it's much harder. Now if I had a GOOD title I certainly wouldn't spend it here.

Least Ellisonian Opening Paragraph
Gosh-o-whillikers, I just adore salmon!, mentally enthused the persian cat Thomasina, as she hopped ever-so-daintily off the divan and slinked to the kitchen where her mistress, Sally Anne, had just peeled off the lid of the day's Nine Lives. Thomasina knew she had to keep her strength up in order to enjoy a full day of frolic in the April sunshine, especially if mean old Mr. Ruff, the bulldog from next door, insisted on chasing her again.

Cindy: Let me cut to the chase. Why would you believe Hector, a convicted felon, over a cop not involved in the Mason County issue, who you don't know, and who very likely was just doing her job? What makes him so much more credible to you than she is? Is it so impossible that he was dealing again? I guess I'm not sure why you've got a dog in this race. Are you maybe just feeling animosity towards cops and jumping at things that don't warrant your attention?

As for the executions in Texas, I'm dead set against the death penalty for reasons that are well-covered territory on this board. George Bush I think took a certain amount of pleasure in executing people. In an interview with Tucker Carlson, Bush mocked Karla Faye Tucker's plea for her life, mimicking her words, "Don't kill me!" in a sarcastic way. How do you account for that?

There is nothing Christian about state-sponsored executions. I don't think it's something Jesus would approve of, considering he himself was a victim of the same kind of system. Bottom line, it's impossible to be certain that one of those 152 people killed by the Bush administration wasn't innocent. Not a risk I'm willing to take.

As for more African Americans being incarcerated than whites, it's a lot of things. America is still a racist country, for one. Second, you do realize that the correctional system is a big business and Texas contracts out to private companies, right? There's a lot of money to be made on the human misery of the prison system, and Texas is America's leader in this booming business. African Americans are easy targets because they are generally low-income and thus wind up with crappy representation.

Just so you know, all this killing and imprisoning hasn't helped Texas' crime rate AT ALL. So what is the point, I ask you? The point, my friend, is $$$.

Defend Bush and Texas all you want-- I think the whole thing is flagrantly immoral. It strikes me as odd that you'd support the prison system until one of your friends is trapped in its web. Everyone in jail is someone's friend. It makes me ill.

PAB

Harlan Titles?
Ben, Grande Idea!

Here's my submission:

Thirteen Geiger Mercury High

How about coming up with a FIRST PHRASE with which Harlan will NEVER start out an essay, story, or forward?

Here's something to get started:

"While tending to my garden..."

-Keith

OUR TEXAS
PAB: No effort at obfuscation. I apologize for not clarifying that my efforts were not really a “defense,” but were, in fact, an attempt to separate W and my beloved Texas in the collective unconscious that rests outside our State’s borders. Once again, however, I am reduced to the realization (of most Texans) that this is impossible. Hence, a Texas Government Lesson, to go with your statistics.

First, while I know you probably have a great deal of other, far more fun reading material at your fingertips, if you did not have the pleasure of basic Texas government courses in your youth, as most native Texans did, please visit texaspolitics.laits.utexas.edu/html/exec/index.html. The Liberal Arts Instructional Technology Services at the University of Texas created the site for use in their regular and web-based political science and history coursework. It is an excellent primer in all the ways to “separate the way Bush does thing from the way that Texas does things,” and how I “exonerate” (although I preferred “separate”) Bush for many things that happened in Texas while he was governor. I’ll give you a hint from the site: “Compared to the U.S. President or chief executives of other states, the Texas governor occupies a ‘weak’ office.” I expect that you will educate yourself about the facts you think pertinent, and will not lecture you. I will add, however, that the structure of Texas government is the reason that Texans historically elect “entertaining characters” to the governorship. I encourage you, if you have the chance, to read up on our previous governors, at least for the entertainment value and some historical perspective.

Second, Bush didn’t execute anyone during his governorship. I know, I know, it’s rhetoric, but so was YOUR phrasing, and I’ll forgive you if you’ll forgive me. For starters, the death penalty in Texas cannot be given by a judge, and couldn’t be, even before the Supreme Court jumped all over states who were still allowing that. Twelve jurors, at the conclusion of a trial, determined that those individuals would be executed. That’s the criminal procedure part, but the government lesson is more important. Mark Twain once said (in 1873, to be exact), “I have had no experience in making laws or amending them, but still I cannot understand why, when it takes twelve men to inflict the death penalty upon a person, it should take any less than twelve more to undo their work. If I were a legislature, and had just been elected and had not had time to sell out, I would put the pardoning and commuting power into the hands of twelve able men instead of dumping so huge a burden upon the shoulders of one poor petition-persecuted individual.” In Texas, we apparently listened. Sort of. “Executive Clemency is the power of the Governor to grant a full or conditional pardon, full pardon based on innocence, commutation of sentence, remission of a fine or forfeiture resulting from a criminal conviction, emergency medical reprieve, or 30 day reprieve of execution. In accordance with the TEXAS CONSTITUTION, the Governor may ONLY grant executive clemency upon the recommendation of the Board...The Board is limited to recommending clemency and to setting minimal eligibility requirements for clemency applicants.” (Emphasis added.) Please check out tdcj.state.tx.us/bpp/index.htm for information on the seven-member Texas Board of Pardons and Paroles. And if the Board recommends clemency? Texans don't want it given. (See "twelve jurors," above.)

It’s not illogic. I was born here, and grew up here, and I’ve read significant portions of the document that is the basis for our government. I went to law school here, and had the opportunity to compare that document – the Texas Constitution – with those of other states. I know that folks used to the federal system, or to a state system based on the federal system, do not understand that the way Texans handed out power 160+ years ago is DIFFERENT, and remains different from the way others do things. (“What? Your governor CAN’T just pardon people like Bill Clinton did? What the hell?”) Our history, and the people who chose to start this State preferred it that way and the people to whom that history and that State have been passed prefer it that way still.

As for being the “killingest state in the Union,” yeah? So? I am deeply disturbed by the stories of individuals, from Indiana to New York to Texas, who have spent time on death row as innocents. (I would HIGHLY recommend a performance “The Exonerated” to anyone who has a chance to see it.) If you want to dissect that number and demonstrate that any of the ones presently waiting to die did not do what they were convicted of doing, not only will I listen, but I will put my name in the hat for free research time or anything else I can do without getting fired from my present employment. My money where my mouth is, no problem. But the largeness of the number means…what? That we have a lot of murderers in Texas? That we have juries who aren’t afraid to give out the death penalty? That we have prosecutors bringing innocent people to trial, deliberately or negligently? That we should be shortening appeals and killing them faster, in the same year they commit the crime, so that number might be lessoned? That we are randomly selecting innocent individuals via an advanced Shirley Jackson (reference?) lottery to soothe our collective loathing of being Texans? That we just have a lot of people who need killin’? Whatever the number suggests, it proves nothing by way of argument.

As for thinking worse of Texas…well, I’d recommend not moving here then. It’s all over the place south of the Red River. ;)

The title thing could have been interesting, if didn't have to be Ellison titles. You people make me cringe. (I think you're torturing Harlan, if he's even paying attention.)

Just for the record, I take back what I said yesterday about the sound engineering on the CD. I listened to it again without the earplugs and it sounds fine now, you can tell they had problems keeping the volume even and to eliminate the tape echo, but they worked hard.

A Small This 'N' That, Before Work

Cindy:

Thanks for the understanding. I'm new here, so slogging back through the posts would take more effort and time than I have to give. Fow what it may be worth, please take my best luck with you.

Harlan:

Corn 'n' chili, for god's sake? Look pal, if you're going to vomit, do it right. Based upon experience derived from chemo and radiation, chocolate mousse is just about the perfect food for hurling purposes. It looks absolutely nasty and smells worse (although as projectile vomit goes, it loses some sense of nuance in not containing chunks), but in reality tastes just about as good coming back up as it did going down.

Jesus, amateurs. Where do they find these people?

One more: The Erotic Adventures of Loofah in the Land of Nerf

Cindy,
Only posting to say this: I was surprised that they released Hector for a couple of days. It had nothing to do with believing you or not believing you.

Also, the most recent post about Hector does prove more enlightening.

Mike,
I think you're talking about MEDEA and it was one of the books that Susan was offering earlier this week.

Harlan,

I remember hearing about a book that a group of authors (including yourself) collaborated on and in which you constructed an entire planetary system and described the biology, geology, history, etc. of that planetary system either through a novel format or connected short stories. It seems to me that there were two intelligent species on the inhabited planet of the system but since I only remember this book being described to me vaguely by a friend of mine, I may be hallucinating. It’s also possible you’ve done more than one collaborative effort like this. In any event, if this sounds familiar to you, please refresh my memory and let me know if the book (assuming it exists) is available anywhere. Thanks in advance for any information you can provide.

Titles Continued
The Deathbunny

Shitterday

Crazy as a Rat in a Tin Shithouse

This Levendis Dude What Brung That Columbus Cat up On Shore to Meet the Injuns

The Pale Indian Head Penny of the Moon Fades Away and Makes Jell-o

Harlan - You're quite welcome. It's either find things, or become a felon, and orange prison jumpsuits make my face look blotchy, so... reap the rewards. Package is in the mail today. Should be there by week's end, barring the release of 3 gajillion Christmas cards into the mail stream on Black Friday.

Rich - It's instinct and luck. I've stopped trying to understand it. Sometimes, things turn up in hours. Sometimes, it takes years. But that's all it is - instinct and luck. Well, and knowing how to look.

Kristin - That's not hard at work. 'Hard at work" would be compiling a list of dealers who specialize in 78s or Dixieland music and going to the phones to make inquiries, while sifting old auction catalogs to see if the record in question has turned up at any point in the last, oh, five years or so (for pricing purposes, because Okeh records aren't the easiest thing to turn up on earth). But then, I have a day job for that level of effort. Nah, it's just a sidelight performed for friends and interested hangers-on.

As for progress reports? Nope. Hardly ever use them.

Harrison, come over to the forum, chuckles. There you'll find plenty of point and counter-point to while away your lunch hour.

I've had this title trapped in my brain for years, so let me inflict it on you guys: NOBODY DIES FOREVER. Now, is that bad, or is that BAD?

Harlan, I'm glad you're getting the "Knife in the Darkness" tape, but I'm a bit disappointed that I wasn't able to find it for you myself, no matter how many second hand tape stores I scoured here in Philly. Oh well, I get some small gratification out of being the person who brought the existence of the tape to your attention in the first place.

I really have to de-lurk here to ask the question, what is your point Eric Martin?

How does the fact that films like this Earth Sea flick are made in order to make money preclude us from discussing their artistic merits. The producers and finaciers are trying to make money, so we must never question their decisions, including the screenwriters? I guess you think Harlan shouldn't have been bothered by what was done to some of his scripts then.

The whole argument you're making strikes me as a bit nutty.

Because They Let Me Out Early

ADRIFT IN A SEA OF MONKEY VOMIT

BUGZILLA

TO PULL YOUR FANGS FOR A MINUTE

Chuck

Hey Cindy
I haven't followed a lot of your posts but noticed a few errors. One, in all my years, I've never heard of anyone saving a field drug test kit in a case. There's a couple of reasons for this. One, the test itself is only a presumptive one. They probably used a Marquis-Reagent. Its results are very temporary, so impounding would prove nothing. Second, the chemicals in these test kits are not the heathiest things so I'm sure that a property bureau would not want them sitting in an evidence locker for however long it would take for a case to go to trial. Third, the actual analysis and measurement of evidence is done by the lab.

Second, your claim that plastic bags will always have fingerprints is not true. I know everyone watches CSI and gets their idea of forensics from it but that is kind of like me watching LA Law and thinking I could try a case. Reality is a far different thing. In my experience, it's very hard to find fingerprints on various items--including plastic.

Finally, your description of the undercover officer as a drug addict seems very unfair. Yes, when working undercover, officers have to look the part. But assuming an officer uses drugs simply because she paused and looked down when asked if she uses drug is taking a huge leap. I'd assume more that she was exasperated and annoyed to be asked such a ridiculous question.

Anyway, just wanted to help you out with some of these things.

Take care,

Stuart

Euuch! The title monster!!
how's THIS for a horrible nightmare....somebody programs a COMPUTER to generate Random Harlan Titles.....RUN AWAY SCREAMING!!!!! ARGH! RUN AWAY!!!

like the machines programmed to write trashy novels in Orwell's 1984.

Haa, FinderDoug, I see you're hard at work trying to find HE that 78rpm record of Dukes of Dixieland...ugh, if I'd just re-read about 100 messages down in the archive last night I wouldn't have stayed up until 1:00am sniffing out the exact title and record number (which somebody posted before) and locating a record-collector bulletin board Doug had beaten me to it in posting requests on!!! I also found way too many sites that were out of date. Any progress reports? (You just get...addicted to the Hunt, I guess. Once you start it's hard to stop.) Ebay was listing about four DoDixieland 78s (starting bid $1.99 each!) but I couldn't figure out what songs were on them. I don't even have an account there.

You know, I just might end up buying myself some Dixieland jazz - what the heck, some stuff has been reissued on CD.

Cindy...not enough space to answer everything you say. It's probably best not to get 100 percent soured on cops; I'm sure there are honest cops out there....but if so it is ONLY because brave citizens like yourself work at KEEPING them that way!!! There are some...subcultures...in the US where police work does attract the worst of the bad eggs - total bullies in uniform. It's almost a cliche that urban police forces are corrupt (MPR was talking recently about all the LAPD cops who deal drugs out the back door) but in a small town, with a small, largely homogeneous population, things can be even worse due to the lack of redundancy. It's kind of a...small sample, in statistical terms.

Does that make any sense? I hope it does...Keep working to get to the bottom of things and find the root of the corruption.

Susan - I know I made out the check correctly to "The Kilimanjaro Corporation" but the envelope is addressed to HERC (you specifically said to address the order to Kilimanjaro - was that so you could tell which ones for "reserved on Webderland?" Hope it doesn't get lost in the shuffle.

May you get only checks made out with the correct spelling this week and no more awful titles...

Kristin
p.s. just called Dutton's Books & reserved my copy of STRANGE WINE. I hope they got the spelling of my name right - I'll see if it's autographed to me or my cousin Kirsten, who lives in Vermont and for all I know doesn't even read!

Titles: And HimsElf Called It...

The Words Ain't On the Paper 'Cuz They're Slippery

Remind Me To Tell You About That

Mistah Intra-Ocular

EscherSketch

Here are some titles for you all:

Tin Ear

No Talent Bum

Music That Won't Play

Asleep at the End of the Line

Dead Words for the Living

Ten Words Too Long

Dream Envy


Steve Dooner

PERCEIVED-- DAMN it...PERCEIVED!!!

God DAMN and you thought the LAST one was War and Peace!
Thank you Harlan,
You are right again.

The input of skeptics, particularly those who have an eye for detail and logic would be invaluable to me. Only sarcasm and pointless attacks without merit make me tired the rest just fuels my fire and helps me address what might be percieved as weak spots.

Thank you... again, and I think you're a doll AND an action figure.

Cindy




Kris,
Tell me again how I can get ahold of you? You are right on about folks not taking a shot at Texas because of what is going on here in Mason County.

Cindy



Rich,

What I meant by the proof is in the pudding is; when there is an indictment, or a case has been filed in federal court the media will have it and then you will see the truth for what it is and has been all along.

In the meantime, you are right; I do completely believe what I am saying. Hector's case is relatively new and all of the facts aren't in. The DA's case against him in court didn't have enough evidence, in my opinion to justify sending him to prison for the 15 years the jury gave him. Maybe if I give you what they brought out, you'll see where they were wrong-- or you'll show me where I am wrong.

Quinn thinks Hector belongs in prison and said he shouldn't have been paroled in the first place. In my opinion Quinn's point is moot--Hector WAS on parole and the law says he deserves the chance to straighten up. Hector maintains that he has. Quinn is right a lot, but not always.

I learned something valuable from observing Low's behavior-- just because they're cops doesn't mean they always tell the truth, it also doesn't mean you can trust them to do what is right. I used to tell my children to approach the police with utter openness and honesty. Now I tell them to say nothing. That's sad.

Quinn came home late last night. He's been gone for a week. I told him everything about Hector's case. He's less sympathetic than I am-- A LOT less sympathetic. He's dealt with Hector before as a cop on numerous occasions for relatively minor infractions.


I did not allege conspiracy on the part of the Task Force Cop. She is not affiliated closely with the Mason cops. But I do say it was ( at best) sloppy, incompetent police work. The holes in her testimony and written reports should have been sufficient to throw the case out. At worst, she pocketed the $250, snorted some of the meth and pinned it on the ex-con who fell into her hands first. She was originally looking for Hector's brother Fernando, who also has a record. When Hector's attorney asked her if she did meth she dropped her eyes and then closed them before responding in the negative.

Now that there is one juror who feels badly that she went along with the other jurors to convict Hector, something could come of it. I figure, either I'll find out that Hector is guilty as sin or I'll try and get the juror to talk to Hector's attorney about an appeal.


You wrote that you're surprised they released him after convicting him. Is it that you are surprised, or is it you don't believe it. I won't be offended; say which it is. If you don't believe it I can probably find something at the courthouse that will prove it to you. The D.A. didn't object so the Judge allowed him a couple of days with his family. His wife told me they were trying to get ahold of the D.A. to see if he would allow him to stay out until Monday-- but the last I heard he presented himself at the jail on Friday afternoon.

Tell me what you don't believe or what specifically you have trouble accepting. I will be happy to address your questions and doubts.

The things I posted on Hector are not as sifted or thoroughly investigated as those of my other cases. I've been working on the earlier ones for about a year, Hector's stuff just came out last week in court. I should have waited to post them until after I did the leg work, but he was so sadly compelling and the State's case was not. The complete absence of any physical evidence presented by the officer, other than the plastic bag with the meth--was disturbing. When she stated under oath that they could not get prints off any plastic bag it branded her, (again) at best an incompetent.

Cindy








Dorman!

It isn't just Texas, it's everywhere. There's just a whole lot of problems here right now because the government in its infinite wisdom has given Drug Task Forces a vested interest in any seized assets. Ask your friend if there have been any charges regarding narcotics or cash. If the cops or task forces can grab something and make a case that drugs were involved they can keep what they catch. It's a stupid set up that can tempt less stalwart cops into corruption. The SWT drug task force caught $2 million dollars in cash right before they disbanded... not that there's anything wrong with that.

At this point I'd believe your friend until something was proved to discount her statement



Rich (again),

I'm not signing or starting any petitions for Hector's release. What I am doing is looking for the C.I. ( confidential informant) mentioned by the woman cop whose testimony alone convicted Hector. The C.I. is a local kid who has had problems of her own since high school-- she went to school with my first son, Nick She did not appear to testify in court which would have backed up the cop's statements. The cop also said she had a backup partner working with her-- he was not there to testify either. The only testimony they had was the cop, a toxicology specialist from the DPS and the lady who runs the evidence lockup for the Task Force. The keeper of the evidence appeared but did not bring any substantiating evidence either. It would have been helpful to have had a copy of the log where the officer signed out $250 for the purchase she said she made from Hector. They said they had no receipt for the cop's withdrawal of the money.

The jury was comprised of all older Mason County residents-- all white-- all with pristine records themselves. They don't have direct contact with the cops, because they are the law abiding sort. They have no personal experiences or reason not to believe what any cop tells them is the truth. That is why they should have had at least one Hispanic juror. Those who sat in judgment of Hector were not his peers, they were from Old School Mason, which means if he's Mexican and there is a mention of dope he must be guilty.





David Paresis,

Not a .4gram difference, the difference is between 1.5 grams ( if the total was 2.5 as the cop testified on the stand) and almost 2 grams (1.9) if you base it on the amount they ended up with at the DPS toxicology lab in Austin. The bottom line is Hector said he didn't sell her any dope at all. The only thing they had to tie him to it was the testimony of the cop. She should have had a world of evidence if it had gone down the way she said it did on the stand. She stated that fingerprints cannot be identified on a plastic bag. It's a routine test conducted with fumes from super glue. You probably know that too and you're not even a cop.

Am I insinuating that an undercover cop in a narcotics task force could be capable of using meth or pocketing money? No, I'm telling you it happens all the time all over the country. Could it have happened in Hector's case? Just as easily as it happens in others. The cop should have had the sheet that showed she signed out the $250, she should have produced the receipt for the batteries she claimed she bought for Hector's scales, she should have had Hector's finger prints on the plastic bag the meth was in-- or at least showed evidence that she had sent it to the DPS crime lab to TRY and get prints from it. She should have DAMNED sure had her buddies testifying to back her up and she should have gotten the recording of the buy because THAT would have proved her case conclusively. Without those key ingredients the cake doesn't rise. Add to that she looks like a user, which may be by design. For some reason the mouths of meth users look like shrunken applehead women's mouths-- do you know what I mean? She's an attractive, skeletal woman probably in her early to mid-thirties, but her mouth looks like it belongs on a woman 40 years older. I don't intend for that to sound mean, but her demeanor and appearance featured in my take. The physical characteristics alone would have meant little or nothing, add them with the yawning gaps in the puzzle and things cannot be so easily dismissed. These are the reasons I am reluctant to conclude that Hector belongs behind bars for another 15.



The pepper spray incident happened on a single occasion-- Low sprayed him twice. I don't know what lead up to it but if, as Hector says he begged him not to do it, because he was afraid it would hurt or damage his (recently surgically corrected ) eyes-- I believe he would have been sufficiently threatened by the presence of the spray to have been compliant. I have seen numerous cases indicating Low's propensity for sadistic infliction of unnecessary force, but it's usually on men in their sixties who are too drunk to do anything about it.

Quinn just got home last night. He's been gone for a week. I asked him about Hector. Being a Mason cop for 15 years he is familiar with most of the indigenous law breakers. On the pepper spray incident, Quinn said (and I do quote) " You can't tell anything based on what Hector says or what Low says because they're both lying sacks of shit". Then he said they could both tell him it's raining, and cold outside and he'd have to go out and see it for himself.

I asked him if Hector ever resisted arrest and Quinn said Hector had never offered to fight. He said, " He'd mouth some, but that was about it". But, he also pointed out, that doesn't mean Hector wouldn't take a poke at Low. Quinn said he has arrested Hector for many petty offenses, including pot over the years and he wouldn't be surprised if he did sell the task force woman an eight ball. I told him Hector had told me he's done many bad things-- but, he said, " I didn't do THIS bad thing". I said he seemed earnest. Quinn then told me the exact thing Merle said that " the prisons are filled with innocent men".

But I still found Hector to be credible in his presentation, both on the stand and when I spoke to him before and after-- which I realize isn't a guarantee that he is telling the truth. Still, I have to check things out just the same.

Merle said he would have told Hector to take the plea bargain because the conservative nature of Mason would make it almost impossible to get around a conviction with an Hispanic defendant involving drug dealing. Of course Merle, like Quinn is not convinced of Hector's innocence in this matter. He did tell me that he had a case involving young man, accused of armed robbery in a convenience store in Austin. He said the clerk who identified the robber said he had a tiny crown tattooed on his neck. The Gang Task Force with the Austin P.D. identified that tattooed symbol as belonging to the gang called The Latin Kings. The cops got out the mugshots of all of the Latin Kings they had on file and showed them to the clerk who identified Merle's client positively. The cops had him sign his name on the back of the photo. Merle said he did everything he could to compell the kid to take a plea bargain, he told him in Austin if you commit a crime with a gun, you're looking at hard time... many,many years in prison. He said he thought he remembered the plea bargain would have gotten the kid between 2 and 3 years. The kid kept saying he was innocent and would not take the plea. Merle said he had no choice but to take it to trial. When they arrived at the Courthouse the clerk pointed at Merl's client and said," Who's that?" Merle said, " What do you mean, who's that? That's my Client, the one you identified." The clerk said, " That's not the one-- I've never seen that kid before in my life!" Come to find out the clerk had identified a different Latin King and when the cops turned the pictures over they somehow transposed two of them and the clerk signed the wrong one. Merle said he was just sick about it. He said he was sick because he almost talked an innocent kid into going to prison.


After the jury left to deliberate, Hector told me that he had been offered a plea bargain for three years. He then said, " I told my attorney " no way". He said " I told him I wouldn't do ONE DAY, because I did not do this."

I might be gullible and I might be wrong but I looked in his eyes when he said it and I believed him.

You can find all of the facts in Sam's case in an earlier post. He wasn't a witness in his own case at all. He doesn't remember most of December. There were numerous others who had no reason to lie, had nothing to gain by telling what they saw or heard. Low's own written statements and official reports indict him as do the statements of the eye witnesses. Go back and look up those details and let me know if you find anything that you don't understand or have questions about.

No, there is no tape of Sam's experience on December 8th. Low had a patrol car equipped with video and audio parked in his driveway but he didn't turn on the video tape.

Low got nearly three grand from Sam's automobile insurance agency-- which he filed on for property damage as the "owner" of the damaged fence, even though he owns no property in Mason County. Don't ask me why the Insurance Company paid it, I haven't figured that out yet. I faxed copies of the land records and tax rolls from the Courthouse and from the Appraisal District to the Insurance agency's fraud division-along with their own statements of what had abeen paid and to whom, but nothing has come of it-- that I know of. I also notified the State Insurance Fraud Commission but they said they won't do anything unless someone from the Insurance agency files a complaint with them directly.

The guy whose daughter was set up by Low is a fraud investigator, conveniently enough. Tomorrow he's going to go with me to take a look at Sam's pickup to see if it has damage that would bear up Low's written account that he ran through 4 fences-- or his other written account that he ran through six fences.

You spot anything else you haved questions about, just holler.

Cindy





Alan,

You're a true gentleman. I thank you for defending me. I agree with your sentiments.

Thank you for being kind.

Cindy



Mary,
Thank you very much. It is true that my posts are exceedingly rough- this because they are so deeply laced with my emotions. The encouragement is gold to me.

Cindy

Alex Jay,
Well said. You're such a good guy.

Paula,

I disagree with what you wrote to Alan. I believe what he said was that those who think I am a liar and a bullshitter--should scroll past.


I think that is a sound admonishment.

If they flatly disbelieve what I write here and don't wish to state their doubts or questions, there is no point in my taking their time. It's like the Watchtower-- I don't actually READ that shit, but I respect the Jahova's witnesses who have the sack to bring it to my house. I do not disrespect the messengers, but neither do I ponder what I consider to be the wrong trail. I'd swap dogma with them but it's non productive so I refrain. I need real questions based on the facts as I present them; stinging barbs lacking valid criticism are worse than useless to me, they are a hindrance.

I don't think Alan said anything about disagreement he only said if you don't believe, then don't bother. I think that's correct reasoning.









Micheal,

If you think the things I post or those submitted by Faisal are not based in fact- then you have nothing to lose by scrolling on.

I hope you continue to improve in health and physical strength.

:)

Cindy



Hiya Faisal,

It was good to talk to you last night.

:)

Cindy

Benjamin Li'l Washu,

In the end, when Cathy was in Heathcliff's arms and he tells her what she is to him--that was delight! NEVERMIND that she was dying, the sweetness of that moment, when they reveal to each other the depth and degree of their love and the truth that it had only strengthened in intensity and desperation throughout the course of their turbulent lives- was worth the brutal paths that brought them to that moment.

Well, actually, come to think of it; it would suck to be them at that moment- but it was a delight to ME.

:)

Cindy



Jon,

Questions I welcome, criticism as well. I take exception to neither those who would question nor those who found it difficult or impossible to follow the linear story, as I tell it, only to those who would post only biting or sarcastic comments without reason or inquiry.

Paula Berman's post is perfection.





Paula ( again),

I'm glad you asked.

:)

Hector was indicted for the sale of one eight ball. The woman cop testified that she went to Hector's home and asked him if he could get her an eight ball. She said she gave him $250 and he left his house to go and find someone he could buy from, to get the dope for her. That is the testimony of the cop. There was no dope at Hector's house lying around.

Hector said the woman/cop was never at his house-- let alone at his house purchasing narcotics from him. He said she had flagged him down by the Courthouse to ask him where his brother Fernando was. Hector said that was the only contact he had with the woman. He's been on parole a long time and was not interested in compromising it over a A$250 drug deal. He's been to prison and had spent the 10 years leading up to THIS indictment, working to stay OUT of it. In Texas if a person re-offends the time he spends out on parole does not count against his original sentence-- so all 10 of the years he served on parole is out the window. He goes back to square one on the original offense in addition to anything earned on a new conviction. Incidentally in those 10 years he has been subject to urine analysis for drugs. He has never tested positive.

I will add here that I thought dealers were also all users, and I felt the negative drug tests went toward Hector's innocence. Quinn said that was incorrect. He said they don't normally dip into their own inventory.


Hector's original offense was gang involvement with narcotics trafficking in a tiny town about an hour from here. I think it was an organized crime and dealing charge. So yes, he was convicted before of dealing, however that case had nothing to do with this case.

Hector said to me; "I've done a lot of bad things. But I did not do THIS bad thing."


The Drug Task Force is equipped with recording equipment. The cop while on the stand said it was true that they they use them during all of their undercover operations. Audio tapes provide irrefutable evidence of guilt in cases such as Hector's. The defense attorney asked her if they could listen to the tapes of her interactions with Hector leading up to his arrest. She said she didn't have any.

That's a strike.

Then you have her statement that she "threw away" the field test kit she used on the meth she said she purchased from Hector. A kit such as that would be further evidence against him. Evidence that would and should hold weight before a jury. Ask any cop you know; you don't throw out evidence-- ESPECIALLY if you are on a DRUG TASK FORCE trying to build a case on a drug dealer.

That's a strike.

Then you have her absurd statement that " you can't get fingerprints off a plastic bag". That is just plain outright BULLSHIT. As Merle observed, she COULD have said, " I didn't get any fingerprints because I didn't need them. He bought the dope from someone else, then he turned around and sold it to me. I didn't need any fingerprints"..... INSTEAD she says they can't get fingerprints off a plastic bag.

That's a strike.

Next you have the story she gave about the batteries she purchased for Hector's scales. She had no receipt.

Not quite a strike but still another suspicious puff of smoke when it comes from an officer of a task force who is undoubtedly highly trained in the collection and protection of evidence and has had the value of evidence drilled into her since she went to the academy. They HAMMER this stuff in when you're a cop. Oh, and they didn't have the scales for evidence or even a picture of any scales-- only the cops testimony-- again.

No, Paula, I would not be the least bit upset by a drug dealer VIOLATING PAROLE going back to prison.

Yes, I am a Republican. There are things in the party's national platform I think are bullshit... such as in changing the Constitution to ban gay marriage. There are somethings that, if they are done correctly work.

I am against mandatory sentences except in the cases of violent offenders and child molesters.

But mostly, I am ENORMOUSLY, VISCERALLY AND MORALLY AGAINST punishing those WHO HAVE COMMITTED NO CRIME. It really is better to let 100 bastards ( guilty of peddling meth ) go than to lock up an innocent man for 15 years on a bullshit deal. If he did it and the state can prove it-- that's a different story.

As for African American incarceration rates being higher than those of other races, I believe it is because the cops focus on the African American members of our society. If they focused on other races equally they would have similar lock up rates. It's a bullshit deal-- like a lot of bullshit deals the cops do.

Not ALL cops, mind you-- but the bad ones.


I also think people who have been in trouble before and have served their time, then continued on to live law abiding lives, should be protected the same as any person who has never made a mistake.

Bush was a good governor, I voted for him twice. He didn't stay a lot of executions, but he did give a last minute reprieve to Henry Lee Lucas for the murder of the girl still referred to as" Orange Socks" because it was conclusively established that he could not have done it. Lucas was HATED in Texas because he was a known serial killer. If anyone had it coming Lucas did, if not for Orange Socks for a dozen others-- but Bush did the right and honorable thing. If he was the sort some paint him to be he would have gotten Lucas because he "needed killin' and not because he was guilty of that particular crime.

Yes, Texas leads the Nation in executing murderers. I don't see that as a bad thing as long as the murderers are murderers. I think the need of society for the death penalty is evident in cases such as the one involving the redneck thugs in Jasper who dragged James Byrd Jr. to death behind their pickup. They did it and there was no denying it. They deserve the harshest sentence we can impose and they deserve the same pity and sympathy they gave to Mr.Byrd who had done nothing to harm them.

I do believe the bar of proof should be sky high when it comes to death penalty cases. Only with incontrovertible proof should the death penalty be imposed. Anything short of that should be life in prison. Scott Peterson for example. That was a heinous, brutal and senseless murder-- heartbreaking, but they don't have him dead to rights on it so I couldn't vote for the death penalty in that case.


There you go. If you have more questions I look forward to doing my best to answer them as well.

Cindy

Rob Ewen,

Hello.

:)

That's a lovely distraction. I needed it. A fascinating inconsistency!

Cindy




Frankie,
You have nothing to worry about.
;)

Hi Neal,
Respectfully,
:)
Cindy

und.....
The Fan at the End of the Line on the Edge of Forever

I Have No Last Dangerous Vision and I Must Scream

"Move over, Rover" said Blood

The Eyelet near the End of the Shoelace

Harlan Wins !
As you would expect, Harlan came up with the best title:

Corn'n'Salsa Come Back Up Intact


I smell another award.....then again, maybe we just need to open the windows for a bit.

-TODD

Ellison titles

A Fistful of Yarbels.

FAQ

Abandoned Harlan titles
Ok, here goes...

I'm So Hungry If I Had Bread I'd Make a Sandwich, If I Had Meat

Dirk Daring and The Pygmy Marmosets of Doom: A Play in Two Acts, With a Fifteen Minute Intermission in Between to Visit the Head and Get Popcorn, and Not Necessarily in that Order

gentle afterthought

Don't give up your day jobs.

GEEZUS H. BENNY THE GRIFT, WHAT A STEAMING PILE'A COW PIES IS THOSE THEM THERE TITLE SUJJESTCHINZ.
AWKKKK
HACK
COUGH
GURGLE
ECHHH
URP
WHEEZE
KAFFKAFF
BLECHH
YUCK
PUKE
!!!

Respectfully, and oh look, corn'n'salsa come back up intact,

Yr. pal, HonkHonkPeeeeeeyew!

Because I'm waiting for a call.
Titles

Grifting Ares

A Soft, Wet Kiss of Asphalt

Rushing Mr. Newberry

A Brainpan on the Back Burner

The Wisdom of Good Cheese

The Clown Who Ate Chocolate Children

Wired for Zounds

Cindy, you leaving me for Alan? hehe.

Kris: Let's not be obfuscatory. Your post wasn't a defense of Texas, it was a defense of George W. Bush. I beg to differ, and I will whip some more statistics on you to prove it.

From the Center on Juvenile and Criminal Justice, "Since 1990, Texas has lead the nation's 50 states with an annual average growth rate of 11.8%, about twice the annual average growth rate of other state prison systems (6.1%). Even more important to the national context, since 1990, nearly one in five new prisoners added to the nation's prisons (18%) was in Texas." The prison population peaked in Texas in 1999, when it pulled ahead of California for most people imprisoned (even though California has 13 million more people living in it). Not to mention that Bush executed 152 people, and here's an easy stat for you-- it's the #1 most killingest state in the Union.

How do you exonerate Bush for that? How do you separate the way Bush does things from the way that Texas does things, since they love them their Bushes? And why do you think that line is in any way a defense for anything? In fact, it fills me with disgust and anger and makes me think WORSE of Texas, not better.

Rather be the King of Statistics than the Emperor of Illogic,
PAB

In Defense of Texas
Yeah, I'm just a smart-ass lurker (although I used to be a regular here in the days when Harlan only participated through Rick), and I've commented on this Cindy thing only directly to Cindy with what little assistance I had, and reserving doubts, although I have them, because at least she's involved. But I have to say, I do not think the situation Cindy finds herself tangled in should be another excuse to take a swipe at Texas, although two well-reasoned frequent posters have recently.

DTS made a comment Friday (?) (I'm behind) about how these sort of things happen here. Yeah, they do. And they happen in New York, where police officers sodomize arrestees, and they happen in Los Angeles, where police officers merely beat the crap out of them. Crooked judges and perverted police officers infect the justice system in every State in this Union, and to even imply that this is a "Texas" problem is pure head-in-the-sandism that permits the implier to proudly refuse to examine his own small universe for parasites. NIMBY, baby, NIMBY.

And then PAB made like the King of Statistics and tossed out some numbers which I'm sure, having worked in the Texas criminal justice system, are absolutely correct. At least, they match my anecdotal experience. And the only bitch that I had with them was the claim that these numbers are the result of Bush having been governor here. Now, I am unsure of whether or not you could say those numbers reached their "worst" levels during the Bush governorship, and I won't quibble with statistics. But Bush's governorship had less to do with those numbers than "the way Texans do things." I offer neither criticism nor defense of "the way Texans do things," but it's NOT a result of W., as the attitudes and methods that created the circumstances the statistics represent predate Texas statehood in some cases.

Finally, I have worked with many, many fine, dedicated law enforcement officers in the State of Texas, and practiced before a bench that includes some of the finest and fairest legal minds in this country. I have caught my share of lying officers, and I have stood before my share of power-happy judges, but I would not think a prosecutor in Texas has this experience more than one in Delaware or Montana or New Jersey.

My $.02.

Okay, Here Goes...

All the Travails Within My Life - Working Route 5, Driving the Porcelain Bus

Hearing Life's End In The Screams of Diced Carrots

Toast Has Never Let Me Down

I Have No Title, But The Story's Still Good

***HE story title***
AL WILSON HAS A JOB FOR YOU

abandoned Ellison story titles

STONHENGE PLINTH: A METAMORPHIC DEPOSITION IN 5 PIEBALD COLORS AND 9 FONTS.

Submit your own HE title
Howdy folks,

I've been looking in periodically and like what I've seen in this
group. And I just couldn't resist the opportunity to submit a
title. Take it easy.

my title: GIVE ME A CALL NEXT YESTERDAY

Suggest Your Own HE Title!

Here's an enjoyable little game: Suggest your own title for a crazy Harlan story!

Mine: BASSET HOUNDS FROM THE 11th DIMENSION

by suggestion


Todd:

most recently I have Solugub, Clark Ashton Smith and Howard Fast suggested by Unca Harlan. over the many years i have been especially enamoured of Fritz Leiber.

there are so many: Arthur Byron Cover is a stand-out, of course. both Finney's, Jack and Charles (Todd, Charles Finney was a newspaperman in our very own Tucson, AZ). Kersh goes without saying (and anyone who has not read "Crooked Bone" should do so before their next Webderland post.) Jacek Yerka, and Henry Miller for goodness sake. John Fante. Jorge Luis Borges was HUGE.

It really pays to pay attention to Harlan's suggestions.

Also saw "Brazil" and "The Prisoner" based on "the Man's" recommendation. WHEW!

Regards,

Neal

Another Convert
Friday before last a good friend of mine (one I’ve worked with for over 20 years) came into my office as I was listening to On the Road Vol. 2. He wound up staying for the entire thing. (I even had to go back to the beginning.) I then got him a copy of “Scenes from the Real World: 1”. He loved it. He now is working his way through my copy of Troublemakers. (There is something funny about a 50-year old getting his first real taste of Harlan from a “teen” book.)

I think we have a convert.

Mike

I would love a two-CD edition of one entire HE lecture, including question and answer and a reading. I've been to a half dozen such events and they sometimes last over three hours. It's like a steam-rolling Guided By Voices concert. Dig it!

On the Road 2
Received my copy today from Deep Shag, and it turns out I badly needed my Ellison fix today. Good work! I think Deep Shag is reading? Since Harlan reported making available tons of audio material, I was surpised to see only material from three occasions included. Which automatically leads one to assume there will be at least one more volume, as indicated also in the essay. With regard to that, I would hope two things: 1. yes, that the CD be filled up entirely (75+ minutes, the material is there) and 2. that the next volume will have on it a little more "normal" business instead of mostly "crowd pleasers" (bad word choice though that may be). I haven't been to a lecture (I somehow missed Harlan's last German tour), nor have I heard anything but the two cd's, but I don't think the cd's are as representative of the lectures as they could be, nor as faithful a reflection of Harlan. (Why should they be representative? Because Harlan has chosen to entertain the audience in a certain way.) In other words, more non-anecdotal stuff which Deep Shag may have hesitated to put on would be fine with me. I think I, and perhaps others, would actually be even more entertained by it. (Then again, perhaps it is representative? I can't tell.) We have vol 1 & 2 now, and will cherish them forever, so vol 3 can be a little different. With regards to the "datedness" of some material, I'm glad Deep Shag doesn't mind and will continue to, well, leave the historical context of the lectures intact.

Two more little observations/critiques... the sound engineering could have been better on the I, ROBOT story, although some effort was definitely made.. and track 1 and 13 seemed superfluous to me, retreading material from other tracks or vol 1. I love tracks 2-7, 8-13 are slightly less captivating, track 14 is terrific, although I would have cut out the last few words and let the thing stand.

The cover photo was taken in Europe, I can see a German car. The newspaper looks French, so it could be be Paris. (Est-ce que Harlan peut parler francais?!)

Jan

LIFE AND DEATH OF COLONEL BLIMP
Just watched on DVD: "The Life and Death of Colonel Blimp". A rich, funny, emotionally effecting, and passionate story of forty years in the life of a British Army officer, beginning at the twilight of his life when he's a big fat walrus-moustached cliche and then providing us with the events that left him that way. Made in 1943, it contains two of the greatest movie speeches I have ever heard. EVER. Winston Churchill didn't want it seen, as he thought it insulting to the Army at a time of war; he also disapproved of the titular officer's lifelong friendship with a german officer, that survives one duel, one life triangle, and two world wars. Churchill had his head up his ass on this one; the we-must-buckle-down-and-fight-the-nazis message is very strong. The film is almost unknown in the US, but is definitely a classic. If you have a chance to catch this one, please do...

Touching the Void is the best documentary of the year and perhaps the best film of the year (The Saddest Music in the World is the only 2004 film I might have enjoyed more.)

And is there anything rarer in cinema than a film which actually DOESN'T force the poor deluded skeptic to realize there really is a God and really is a meaning to everything that happens? If there aren't atheists in foxholes, this film shows there are still atheists at the bottom of giant ice crevasses.

It's a beautiful, lyrical film that encapsulates almost everything I value in the documentary form. Twenty lashes to the first schmuck who says "it's not really a documentary" because it uses recreations and all sorts of, gasp!, creative elements.

IT TOUCHED MY SPECIAL AREA

Aside from girls stripping at a frat party...

I was transfixed by my first experience with TOUCHING THE VOID on PBS tonight (if you can't touch a BABE it might as well be a VOID. Right?). I saw myself symbolically in the near fatal ascent these climbers took to scale the hitherto unclimbed Siula Grande in the Andes. The events here projected an imagery any of us could relate to as it shifted between reality, surrealism, and hallucination. I’ve always seen myself as one climbing the ledges, never being sure that I’m going make it, reminding myself never to look down and keep my ass on the MOVE. This was an incredible piece, man; I internalilzed just about every shot. I wrote lots of notes.

I drive SOME friends nuts with these fixations - these inspirations - because I really don't give 'em much choice but to get into it. We narcissists have our needs, y’know.

Well, the parables of ESCAPE seemed to be the common theme for me this week: I ran the films COOL HAND LUKE, PRESSURE POINT, SHAWSHANK REDEMPTION (ironically motivated to run it after Steve Evil's single-handed, and single-minded, deep sixing of the film), and THE GREAT ESCAPE.

I’d like to comment quickly, like a silly, excited kid jumping up and down, about the last on that list.

I don’t know if there are any GREAT ESCAPE devotees here, but NOVA ran an incredible segment about the real Great Escape, the real men represented by Richard Attenborough, McQueen, and Jim Garner. The Nazis never found one of the 3 tunnels the POWs dug in their venture to get 200 out of Stalag Luft III in WWII. Scientists recently found it and brought 3 survivors from the actual escape to see it once more. The 1962 film was extremely accurate; yet, when you meet the real people involved it captures the imagination all over again.

I proceeded to read more about the real Big X, the mastermind of the great escape played by Attenborough (Roger Bartlett in the film). His name was Roger Bushell. The man and his life would in itself justify a film. He was charismatic, multi-talented, brilliantly resourceful, and intensely driven. His later experiences in the prison camps, constantly escaping and being recaptured, and playing a dangerous cat-and-mouse game with the SS holds some of the most compelling story material I’ve seen ANYWHERE. For all his ingenuity his luck in eluding capture would have been hysterical had it not met such a grisly conclusion (his death takes place off-screen in the movie; but it was really quite sick; at least the SS thugs who murdered him and the other 50 at Hitler's orders were all hanged). It’s like the stuff Shakespeare would use if he were alive today. I’d love to take a crack at gathering material for a script about Bushell. If I can’t do a bio I’ll use the man as a basis for something.

Here’s a great link to read about him and about the real Great Escape (comparing the events to what you see in Sturges’ film):

http://www.pegasus-one.org/pow/roger_bushell.htm
http://www.historyinfilm.com/escape/index.htm

I think you may agree with me.

lessee
Todd - I'm pretty new to Harlan's literary (as opposed to film) opinions - if HE turned me on to anything, it was Doctor Who (blush) or a few movies maybe (mostly by his not hating them!) I've seen Westlake recommended by several other writers though, so I've been looking for some...he wrote an awful lot of novels and it seems as if only a few are still in print or even in libraries. (THE HOT ROCK seems easy to find - wasn't that the first of his Dortmunder novels? Probably it hangs around cause it was made into a film that gets reshown on cable TV a lot!)

On the other hand, my father has some Dostoevsky on his shelf...have to get to BROTHERS KARAMAZOV, THE POSSESSED, and the anthology that has NOTES FROM THE UNDERGROUND in it (all nice compact Random House Modern Library editions) after I finish reading all the stories in my Ellison books, my borrowed-from-the-library Ellison books, and the Charles de Lint novel SPIRITS IN THE WIRES as well as Simmons' ILIUM (both of those are public library books too so I have limited time).

Finder- awesome. How long had that request been up, anyway?

Kristin

harlan's influence...
I think Harlan has influenced me more in the way of film than anything else, though I think both in film and literature he caused me to step outside the genre ghetto a lot more than I might have if left to my own devices.


As of last week I no longer work for Borders. We're heading back to the Central Valley, to help look after my father-in-law.
It's nothing too severe, just that he had a stroke a few years back and has trouble keeping up with things [he has his utilities shut off, etc.] He's a great guy and I'm glad we're going to be spending more time together--my wife and I are his main family. The job market is a little rough where I'm going but we'll make it. This may well be my second lengthy bout of unemployment over the last year and a half and this time I hope I'm a little better prepared. I just plan to read a lot, write as much as possible, take some college courses [so I can get a second bachelors in something marketable] and take a good long walk every day. Things could be a hell of a lot worse.

Now if we can just get through with the annoyance of moving things will be fine--I think I'm dreading the next couple of days more than anything else.

Doug:

In a word, holy gadzoely betty spaghetti!

I is in awesomefulicityness of you, son.

Yr. pal, Harlan

I am in awe of Mr. Finder's abilities. I thought I had a knack for procurement, learned from scuffling around in the Army and an addict's single-minded focus. I haven't exactly made it my mission, but I was keeping an eye and ear peeled for "Knife in the Darkness", but...

Truly, Doug, you are the man.

And, thanks, Harlan.

BARNEY - The Wikipedia solution might be more simple than first imagined. I'll ping you tomorrow, early evening with a thought or two.

HARLAN - My spatulate pinkies have a secured a copy of Stardance Entertainment's 1994 VHS release of "Knife In The Darkness". It will be on in its way to you this week via the HERC address. It's used, but it's in good shape, it's got its box, and it plays. I'll enclose the pertinent details with the tape. And lo, The Finder keeps on rolling...

Hey, Jono, procrastination over: with the swiftly approaching post Thanksgiving deadline looming, I have tossed my Ellison Collection inventory onto the other board. A bit messy, and I had to cut my comments since Excel isn't good for that board, but it's done and I'm pooped.

Everyone, while scanning my home for Ellison stuff, I had a thought: How many of us have books on our shelves solely due to recommendation made by Harlan in an interview or article. Not a review (though that's how I found Dan Simmons), but a casual or pointed comment in an interview about a book he loved?

Off the top of my head, I can say that one of my favorite novels ever, Doctorow's Ragtime, was purchased and read because of something Harlan said in an interview. Same with Robert Coover's The Public Burning. Same with all of my Westlake books (no specific book was mentioned; only the author as one of his favorites).

I know I have some others.....and I know I have many books that I know he loves, but those I books I bought anyway. But Ragtime and Public Burning are favorites and would never have been read without a comment made by Harlan in an interview. Same with the Westlake books. I also have a Gerald Kersh collection, bought at a ReaderCon where Harlan was the living guest of honor and Gerald was the, ahem, deceased guest of honor. Haven't gotten to that one yet.

-TODD

Alex Jay and Rick:

My thanks for clarification, I was a bit confused at both the subject matter and number of posts, just too far afield for my reading. After years of dealing with alt.fan.harlanellison, I felt I'd wandered back into that exercise of futility.

Under different circumstances I would take more interest, but right now the time and concern are far better served digging out from the Everest of bills left over from treatment (Any who claim that the Canadian system is perfect should investigate how many procedures and patient support options have been de-listed by government over the last ten years), the need for home and sustenance, and the annual godawful season where I feel like shit at not being able to repay the huge kindnesses given by my family with some meagre token of esteem.

For what it's worth, things can work out for people, if you stay with it.

Sometimes.

Wuthering Heights and the Miracle Door

Cindy,

Sorry to distract you from your legal dealings, but I couldn't help but notice your love for Miss Bronte's meisterwerk.

I studied WUTHERING HEIGHTS at college, and recall a teacher pointing out to me an error in the text. The details are a little hazy now, but Nelly Dean is locked in her room by Heathcliff (I think), and she bemoans his treatment of her. A couple of paragraphs later, and a boy is sent up with her lunch on a tray.

Nelly OPENS THE DOOR HERSELF to receive the lunch and closes it again, and then on the next page somebody unlocks the door and lets her out.

The magic of fiction! I'm not rubbishing the book, of course, but I guess it's not only Harlan's work that suffered from erratic publisher proofreading.....

Ah- ever the honest man!
Who was it said "love your enemies for they tell you your faults?'

It's nice to see this site as a place for well-informed critiques and Harlan standing up for intellectual honesty. Hero worship (even of Cindy!) is a dangerous thing; none of us is God; human beings are fallible. Sometimes one does need to swallow one's pride.

who said "Have an open mind but not so open your brain falls out of the holes?" (I seem to keep remembering quotations but not who they're from.) That's probably the most important thing to teach one's kids in an age of information overload.

kristin

Cindy,
Some questions regarding your latest posting about the Berrelles case.What was Mr Berrelles doing when he was pepper sprayed on two occasions by Deputy Low? Are we to believe that Deputy Low simply acted on a sadistic whim or is there a possibility that Mr Berrelles' actions may have instigated the use of pepper spray? Given his past convictions, how credible is Mr Berrelles'word,or in fact the testimony of others who have claimed abuse at the hands of the Mason County Sheriff's Department? PLease note this would be a determining factor of anyone investigating these claims as well as a factor in any defense if these claims are brought before a civil or criminal court. Does there exist any video tape which could either back up Mr Berrelles' claim of abuse or perhaps exonerate Deputy Low?
You go on in your posting to make several claims regarding Mr Berrelles' subsequent arrest, trial, and conviction which I find questionable and would request clairification. How does the Southwest Texas Drug Task Force factor in with the Mason County Sheriff's Department? I am unable to find any information regarding this organization but would assume that it's name implies a state or district run law enforcement group. Are you now claiming that the allegations you have made extend beyond Mason County? If so how wide spread is this conspiracy?
You made several pointed statements about the quantity of meth that lead to Mr Berrelles' arrest. Are you insinuating that a police officer currently employed by the Brady Police Department Is using drugs? Could the difference in weight be attributed to Mr Berrelles' scale being misadjusted? Could the .4 gram difference represent amounts used in testing? or could the differing amounts be atributed to tare weight? Also, were the amounts mentioned total amounts or the did they represent pure drug content?
Finally, given attorney Laird Palmer's(Merle) comments that had he repesented Mr Berrrelles he would have advised Mr Berrelles to accept a Plea bargain it seems reasonable to assume that the state had a relatively strong case against Mr Berrelles
D.W.Pareis

WHY DIDN'T THE REST OF YOU THINK OF THIS ?
In defense of Rich and his postings:

Taking the Devil's Advocate position, and sternly requiring Cindy to address the questions/possibilities WE haven't thought of, can ONLY be of value to Cindy for the very reason Rich proffers: OTHERS, less affectionate toward Cindy than we, less trusting and in some cases illogically bent on discrediting her, dismissing her, subverting her, than we ... will most certainly cobble up rat-hole reasons for an offhand dismissal of this "purty but silly time-wastin' housewife."

In fact, as valuable and supportive as our attentions to Cindy's ongoing crusade may be, as heartwarming and familial as our "go git'm, girl!"s may be ... Rich's demands for clarity, however phrased, may ultimately stand our Texican Jean d'Arque in more serviceable, more constructive stead.

It cannot but serve Cindy well to keep thinking at this problem from all sides ... because the enemy, if not smarter, may well be more cunning, and certainly is less constrained by rules and the vagaries of Playing Fair.

Yr. pal, Harlan

Alan said, "[questioning] with an attitude that seems to imply that Cindy is just wrong or even just an emotional female, I get perturbed."

The first part I'll somewhat cop to, but the "emotional female" part was nowhere in my post. "Emotional female" is so far from what I would even say or think; nevermind the sexism implied, but I'm quite emotional myself sometimes.

To wit, the first part, un-to wit, I'm not saying Cindy is wrong, but I am expressing doubts as to the validity of some of the things she's saying. There was not much detail in her post about Hector and what was posted does not seem to be reasonable grounds to start signing petitions for Hector's release. That post, coupled with some of the things I saw that weren't fully explained in the other posts, was what prompted me to make my statement. I stated my doubts and was met with "proof's in the pudding". Not exactly the kind of comeback that courts of law would enthusiastically embrace.

A few things to clarify my postion on Cindy's tribulations:

---She can post whatever she wants about this stuff. It's a free country and the Patron has given permission for her to post as necessary.
---Valid questions have been raised in regards to Cindy's posts. As long as Cindy posts, there will be some response to those posts.
---Details. Cindy's posts lack some key details. Doesn't really matter on this board 'cause I'm no judge and I'm certainly no lawyer and this ain't no court. But, I do hope she takes some of these questions and thoughts and makes notes 'cause they're the same questions and thoughts that someone else will ask.

Oh, one last thing: As far as "proof to the opposite", Alan, that's impossible. No one's shown any proof about anything other than what's been posted on this board. The fact that it's Cindy that's doing the posting was proof enough for me in the beginning and if anyone else had come on here with what's been posted, you definitely wouldn't have seen the support you're now seeing. But, it's Cindy and we're giving her the benefit of the doubt.

Or, rather, I was giving her the benefit of the doubt. Nothing would please me more than for her to send me a postcard saying, "Oh, man of little faith, I told you so."

And that's all I've got to say on the subject.

Cindy
Harlan has expressed interest in Cindy's doings and asked that she continue to report here. I've therefore given her permission to post as much as she wants per day. It remains on topic for this board for as long as Harlan cares for it to be.

As for the questioning - I think it's certainly fair to question. However, this does not mean simply (and sometimes horribly inconsiderately and callously) expressing doubt or scoffing is not questioning, it's just being disdainful and a little bit mean. Let's keep the questions as informed and civil as that which we are questioning.

PAB,

I never meant to suggest that no one should question Cindy. But if someone responds with an attitude that seems to imply that Cindy is just wrong or even just an emotional female, I get perturbed. Nobody knows what Cindy does about this situation. Is she emotionally involved? Definitely, just as I am emotionally involved with the relatively minor problem I have with my boss. Others don't feel my emotions, but I certainly do. Is Cindy right? I have to say that she thinks she is. Until there is proof to the opposite, I choose to believe her and support her.

And yes, I am a Bleeding-Heart Liberal.
______________________

As this site is about Harlan Ellison, I must say that I am extremely sorry that HE is not my uncle. If he were, I could form an excuse to have dinner with him a couple-three times a year. I am such the person I am because of Harlan, even though I didn't meet him until many years after he first began to influence my life.

Peace.

Cindy:

I look forward to your posts, hard to read or otherwise. It must be unbelievably hard for you, fighting the good fight down in Mason, and then you have to come here and debate everyone here! I don't have a book to offer you, but will a big hug and a "You rock!" from Orange County do?

You're a kick-ass kinda gal--we need so many more of those these days!

Mary

MICHEAL: As Harlan has requested of Cindy that she keep checking in and keep him (and us) posted, there is a reason she's keeping her stuff on the board here.

Alan Coil, you do realize your response to Rich is basically, "If you question or criticize Cindy's allegations, you should just shut up and not read her posts," right? But remember, some of us do come here to read the board, and we like Cindy, so we usually give her posts at least a look-through. But according to you, if we don't have anything to say but agreement, we should cease to read her posts and any responses to her. That seems a bit ridiculous, doesn't it? I don't know if that's what this board is about. Last time I checked it was about Harlan Ellison, and the basic spirit of Ellison, which would definitely entail reading things skeptically and offering your informed opinion.

Enough out of me,
PAB

Barney - You didn't get my gopher?

Damn. And he was a rascal to scrape up, too...

I'm likely to get the shitrain for his query, but I'll fire it anyway:

Why couldn't Cindy and Faisal take their crusades over to the other board for discussion? It seems to me that the header on this page asks us to try to keep this somewhat to discussion of things Ellison, rather than the local police beat.

Granted, I've taken things slightly askew myself, but I'm trying to keep it both brief and more to the point. I'm not stating whether or not either Cindy or Faisal are lying, it's just that their epics are too long and entirely off topic, and scrolling pass leaves me concerned that I might miss something of value.

Well, the Wikipedia entry stayed up for only a few hours. Everything was changed back except my alteration of Harlan's place of birth. I have no real hope for this either as his birthplace was changed at least once before from Cleveland to Painesville by non-webderlanders who "knew better". The reason given for the change back from my changes was that I had pasted what may be copyright material to the site, and frankly, they may be / almost certainly are right, in that the Webderland biography page almost certainly is covered by some sort of site copyright blanket. If there is a way around this it would probably be to include more and more factual information of a non-partisan nature while leaving the partisan stuff stand. Since they left my bibliographical additions alone they don't seem militantly opposed to simple facts. It's just not, y'know, whatchacallit, a priority.

Since it would be a much slower process, and in order to be done right would require me to learn Wikipedia formatting and spend more time there policing the damned thing then tending to my family, don't anticipate me tackling this overnight. But there are more of us then them so perhaps a process of accretion might work.

To answer Kristen, yes, that was me. Where my name appears on the net, as far as I've ever seen that's me. The advantage of a unique name. And I never use pseudonyms, so if you ever see something you'd like to think was me and my name isn't there, it wasn't. It's not that big a deal. The only hate mail I've ever received was from Webderlanders. Exactly 2 pieces in 10 years. No dead gophers, no strange phone calls. I absolutely believe if you disagree with someone and you're willing to sign your name you will almost always be treated with more, rather than less respect. Even if this is not the case you have to proceed as though it were true. You just have to.

- Barney

Cindy - Frankly she can post what she wants here as this was the request made by most of the group given the somewhat dangerous territory she's moving in. What Cindy is posting is an informal journal, her dossier is apparently something that would take up a lot of space here so don't expect court room standard testimony here. She's doing the best she can and she has my support for that.

As far as I understand, Cindy is dealing with local law enforcement authorities who are corrupt as hell and sometimes that means also dealing with individuals who are not angels when it comes to their own behaviour. Given colleagues who have to report on the same issues in the UK, its takes real skill to report and spot tedious details that can be built up bit by bit to prevent it falling on its face. Cindy is trying to do that without the resources of a newspaper or broadcaster behind her. For that she's got my support.The story below will show a personal reason why, I won't go further into the others.

---------

A friend of mine, Jim Hemingway, who worked my old film school had been undergoing years of bullying by a senior member of staff at Leeds Metropolitan University, Denise York.

I can name this woman safetly as what I will relate will not be libel and is allowed under UK law. She was a corrupt woman who used the staff and students at the film school to further the career of herself and her son.

(http://www.yorkshiretoday.co.uk/ViewArticle2.aspx?SectionID=55&ArticleID=826441)

In the Summer of 2004, Fabian Hamilton MP (your equivalent of a senator), stood up in Westminister Hall and made the following statement:

"http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200304/cmhansrd/cm040721/halltext/40721h04.htm#40721h04_head0"

"I have good reason to believe that the course leader [Denise York] used her position to manipulate staff and students for her own political ends and at the expense of the courses that she was meant to manage. I have many examples of statements, as well as e-mails and memorandums, from students and staff who supported Jim's [Hemingway] case. The Minister may have that file after this debate. "

Denise York was transferred from her position of course leader and is now safetly away from trying to detrimentally effect other students careers. This statement was only made through the collection of tedious details that bit by bit illustrated a course leader who abused, bullied and lied to get her own way to the detriment of students educations. And if by some chance, she comes across this posting, all I'll point out is that those who resisted her reign (Kim Moore, myself and a good few other folks) went onto to get some success in the industry. The one's who supported her actively or by staying silent... have yet to find their voices to be heard.

FAQ

CINDY,

I can see the "abysmal loss". I can't see the "delight".

Cindy, what you're positing about what Alan said is no different from what I posited in terms of end result -- both end in no questioning or criticism. Remember when I had the prolonged shoving match with Eric back in June over on the other board? I wasn't kidding when I said recently that the experience was beneficial later because, as much as a pain in the ass as he was and as angry as I was at him at the time, he supplied a valuable critique.

I don't doubt your motives and I do believe you're fighting the good fight -- but the people taking pokes at you here are as valuable as the people supporting you, as painful and as irritating as it may be to have Eric show up and say 'Could I see some proof?' or to have rich say 'I'm not following this at this point.' It is not a bad thing to have people who've demonstrated that they have good minds in the past to ask questions of you and to even take shots at you on a board like this when you're attempting something like what you seem to be attempting. I don't want to sound Matrixesque (or Yodaesque) but there are times when your apparent enemies are your friends because they act as devil's advocates. Not all the time, but at times.

Now, who's up for some punch and pie?

Cheers, Jon

Cindy, I have some questions about Hector's sentence. Was he only arrested for possession and distribution of that one eight-ball? Seems likely that when he was arrested, he probably had a lot more than that laying around if he was dealing. If you have 5 grams of meth, that's a US mandatory minimum sentence of 3-10 years, even if it's a first offence (http://www.angelfire.com/rnb/y/mandatory.htm#mand). Add onto that violation of parole AND a record, the time could easily go to 12 years.

Was Hector convicted of dealing in the past? Does he claim that he did not sell the cop any meth, or does he claim he just didn't sell her 4g? And aside from that, if he was in possession of any amount >5g plus a scale, even if that's not sold to an undercover agent, he's got a mandatory minimum sentence to face.

Also, why are you upset about a drug dealer who violated parole going to jail? Aren't you a Republican? Those guys love mandatory minimum sentencing, harsh punishment of drug dealers, and long jail sentences in general. Texas loves to throw people in prison. It has has twice the number of people incarcerated as NY does. More Texans are under correctional supervision than the entire population of Alaska, Wyominng, VT, or Washington DC--it's 5% of the adult population, or 1 in 20! African American incarceration rates are 7x higher than for whites in Texas--24% of black men in Texas are under criminal justice control. All this, but none of it has had a deterrent effect on crime in Texas. (all stats from http://www.cjcj.org/pubs/texas/)

This is the legacy of the Bush governorship of Texas because all of the above situations came about in the mid-1990's. If you object to these high sentences for drug-related offenses and high rates of incarceration with no attendant effect on your crime rate, you should protest those in a meaningful way. However, if the law is just doing it's job, who are you mad at? You voted for the guy and his cronies. This is the fruit of that choice.

Again, this is posted with all due respect, in the spirit of open debate,
PAB

Cat Stevens should be laughing his ass off
At New York's Kennedy Airport today, an individual later discovered to be a
public school teacher was arrested trying to board a flight while in
possession of a ruler, a protractor, a set square, a slide rule, and a
calculator. At a morning press conference, Attorney General John Ashcroft
said he believes the man is a member of the notorious al-gebra movement. He
is being charged by the FBI with carrying weapons of math instruction. He
also said he thinks the man was out to "teach somebody a lesson".

"Al-gebra is a fearsome cult," Ashcroft said, "They desire average
solutions by means and extremes, and sometimes go off on tangents in a
search of absolute value.

They use secret code names like 'x' and 'y' and refer to themselves a
'unknowns', but we have determined they belong to a common denominator of
the axis of medieval with coordinates in every country. As the Greek
philanderer Isosceles used to say, "there are 3 sides to every triangle'."

When asked to comment on the arrest, President Bush said, "If God had
wanted us to have better weapons of math instruction, He would have given
us more fingers and toes."

Hummm!
The Faisal thread seems to be a branch of the Cindy thread, but I know much less about it other than the evil system being just as evil in the UK as Hollywood. I do not want to get involved with it and regret sounding as if I had.

Wikipedia, I understand is a kind of experiment in anarchy. The idea is that people will correct each other to cancel out the BS. It's another technolibertarian thing, kind of like Wired magazine. Yes, the factual errors need to be cleaned up. Well I haven't seen the article in question; maybe the reporter thought he/she was trying to be fair....is it really "giving equal time to Harlan's enemies" or just admitting they exist? Infuriating though it can be, the law protects free speech even for people who don't like you unless you can prove it fits the legal definition of libel or slander. ("Character assassination" is not a legal term to my knowledge. But I agree, writing scurrilous things should be beneath someone who calls himself a "professional.")

There needs to be a way of rating content for credibility - and also of noting "conflicts of interest" that indicate the author of an online article might be biased (one way or the other.) This is an official site, so of course we are biased right here!

Barney, I saw the online so-called "reviews" of Mr Priest's ah....screed....on Amazon.com. Are you the same Barney who was just about the only person there willing to give an actual name? The Amazon review system lends itself to abuse since people can hide behind anonymity. Thanks for defending Unca Harlan, although - when people ask do you note that yes, you are his friend? (You must get a few hate mails! Brave of you.) It's horrifying to think how close they came to giving a Hugo Award to a bit of nasty...feuding.

Which reminds me, I might end up selling my membership to the Worldcon (Interaction) in Scotland. (And did you notice who their UK guest of honor is? Is that the same guy? I hope things don't get ugly....) I have always wanted to visit Britain, but either I won't have the airfare money or I'll be too busy earning it to get away. (No, I don't think I'm gonna get the job I interviewed for. The day didn't go to well overall...aw well, back to trying...gonna fax my resume to a temp agency.) Dunno what I'll get for it. Barter, maybe. One hundred British pounds buys a hand frame knitted (machine made but one at a time on a cottage industry scale) Shetland Isles made allover-patterned Fairisle sweater...real authentic! I know a couple sites where you can order stuff like that.

Didn't Bruce Sterling say "information wants you to give me a dollar?" Reading the liner notes to On the Road Vol 2, all I can say is.....gee, who needs lawyers when you could bring back trial by champion! Susan sure can sigh with relief though that that "kid" (did you ever get it figured out whether it was at MIT or an sf convention?) wasn't....suicidal....no headlines the next day "AUTHOR, 68 (or so) JAILED FOR BEATING UP 20-YEAR OLD STUDENT." Whew! Settling a case with one's fists, though....the idea is, well...interesting....I wasn't here until after the lawsuit got settled (!) but I totally agree creators have a right to be paid. As Heinlein said, TANSTAAFL. (there aint no such thing as a free lunch).

Cindy: be happy...you earned it! Nice warm fuzzy autographed book to cuddle up with for an early Christmas present! (lol - we know what Harlan really writes about) Harlan, that is really sweet of you. As for me, my order is in the mail. One of each book, $63 plus shipping as Susan said. Oh, and I wrote on the order form...tell them (your secretary/box packers, etc) not to throw in another mouse pad or Dream Corridor #3 this time. I got two of each in a month with different orders, you folks are so generous. You must be up to your ears in the things or something....well I have rather less living space at the moment.

Many of the people I know are in fandom and I haven't even let on my dirty little secret that I'm not only reading Ellison but posting on this site....I don't know, it's not like people really have nothing better to talk about than how much they love/hate Harlan, so I worry about stirring up controversy. I don't *think* local fandom is full of Harlan-haters - they did invite ya to BayCon back when, 93? 94? but they are heavily into convention-running politics, so... Some things are best not talked about because they open old wounds. (Yeah, I plead guilty.)

Kristin

Harlan and Susan,
I shake my head in wonder and gratitude.

Thank you. Thank you both for the gift.
Cindy


Ah Jon,
He never said they didn't have the right to voice their opinions, love. He said if he doesn't believe, if he thinks I'm lying or if it offends his sensibilities he can quit reading what I post. I think that's sound advice.

I'm sorry it's such a lengthy report.
Cindy


Benjamin!
As for Wuthering Heights, you are far afield, oh light o' my existence. That's a beautiful, BEAUTIFUL tale, well crafted and sharp as the needles of a turkey pear. I've re-read it every year or so since I was a kid in school-- yes, since wheels were made of stone. It has yet to disappoint. Open your heart, sweet boy and take another look-- it's all there, the pain, the loveliness, the delight and abysmal loss of being human and loving another human soul completely.

Please try it again with an open heart, you'll see it, I swear you will!

Cindy


Alan Coil,
I love you.
:)

I just saw a SOUTH PARK episode where Stan was forced into voting for a new school mascot - between a big douche and a turd sandwich. The parallels between the episode and this year's election were not-so-subtle.

I remember my own post, sometime before election night, and I SPECIFICALLY remember how shrill and desperate it was. I didn't have the right to vote, so I insisted that others should. Now I feel resopinsible for forcing individuals to choose between a douche and a turd. I feel like the member of a lynch mob, and it feels really ugly.

Goddamnit, who would have thought a SOUTH PARK episode could depress me? I must be in a weakened state from being forced to read pessimistic trash like WUTHERING HEIGHTS and WOMEN IN LOVE.

I need sleep. Goodnight.

Alan, with all due respect, rich and 'the other guy' have every right to comment on the Cindy thread (actually, let's upgrade that to The Cindy Tapestry, though that sounds like a long-lost collaboration between Guy Gavriel Kay and Judy Blume).

Yours in Christ, Jon

getting somewhat caught up

Guys:

Did anybody here see Harlan’s performance of “Five Miles Down” last week? I don’t remember seeing any assessments.

I had hernia surgery last week so that partly explains why you haven’t heard from me in a while. Amazing, the stuff that came up here in my absence.

Dukes of Dixieland: I had a vinyl 33 rpm of the Dukes that I gouged the grooves out of as a kid, although it was probably a 1960s incarnation of the band. I remember seeing a Firehouse 5 + 2 album as a kid, probably a 78 rpm, though I can’t remember whether it belonged to my Dad or was a library copy I ran across somewhere.

Old Time Radio: I may have mentioned here that after my last surgery (in July), I self-medicated (against boredom) with a huge pack of audio cassettes of the old Jack Benny Show from the 1930s and 1940s. It proved just gentle enough that I didn’t bust a gut laughing; more like smiles and an occasional chuckle, unlike the 2,000-Year-Old Man and Beyond the Fringe, which were too dangerous.

I appreciate the discussion of “The Shadow,” especially Anthony Tollin’s background info. I’ve only heard a couple of episodes, myself. I don’t remember Simon Callow’s bio of Welles talking about his work on the show. The book sure made me wish someone had filmed Welles’s stage productions of Shakespeare (e.g., the all-black Macbeth) in the 1930s, though.

The discussion of Mr. Fixit-Britt Ponsits reminds me of a Feiffer strip that probably dates from the late 1950s or early 1960s. Feiffer’s every-schlub Bernard Mergendeiler runs into a sharply-dressed executive type on the street who announces he’s Bernard’s “grown-up” -- someone who makes all the important decisions on one’s behalf, who’s decisive and forthright and assertive, etc., etc. Bernard is overjoyed, he cries that he’s wanted one of these all his life! How much does he have to pay? The man puts his hand to his mouth and says, “Gee, I don’t know. What do you think I’m worth?”

I have so much more to say about Old Time Radio shows, and the subject has come up here more than once, so I’m going to start a thread in the Forums and hope some of you will join me.

Oh yes, I did meet FinderDoug in the flesh here in Portland near the end of October. We had a terrific chat, he told me about the great Six-Pack of Ideas he and Xanadu concocted for Harlan (photos, I wanna see photos!), and I gave him a photocopy of Vol. 1 no. 1 of “Rabbit Hole.” How’d it go in Albany, Doug?

Here's a Knot...

Hardly Gordian, but on the other board there's a thread concerning the possibility of an Ellison film/biography.

So, in that spirit, I'll ask you, Harlan, if you've started on or have notes prepared for your memoirs. It just seems to me that you're not going to leave your assessment of yourself and your craft in the hands of others, rather wanting that privilege for yourself, alongside the lucre that'll likely follow.

Of course, the only auto biography I'd felt was worth a damn was Rudyard Kipling. It was straight and to the point, not meandering or pretentious; just an excellent self-assessment.

Love to see a "Crumb"-style or Errol Morris documentary.

Just wanting to know how much more I'm paying to keep updated.

MAYBE IT'S JUST TEXAS
CINDY: Maybe it's just Texas that grinds out bad political and law enforcement eggs (yes, that was a subtle dig at "Dubya"). An editor and friend from Milwaukee recently told me that she had to go down to Texas a couple of months ago -- she's been running her husband's business since he passed away last year -- to deal with some problems involving a shipment that was coming to her via eighteen wheeler. I haven't got all the information at my fingertips -- or locked down tight in my brain at the moment -- but I DO remember her saying that the truck and shipment were still stuck in Texas...because of a crooked Judge. She was quite surprised to be dealing with something like that in the 21st century. I told her it's par for the course in Baja Oklahoma. (Shades of Rod Steiger).
--DTS

CINDY:

A copy of SLEEPLESS NIGHTS IN THE PROCRUSTEAN BED is on its way to you. Gratis. As a thankyou for your recent stint as Batgirl deeeeeep in the heart of Texuuuuusss.

Love from me & Susan,

Yr. ole pal, Harlan

Susan,
If you have still have any extra editions of Sleepless Nights left, could you please ear mark one for me? I had one years ago but haven't seen it in a long while. I think the house may have gobbled it up.

Thank you in advance for any time or trouble on my behalf,
:)
Cindy

revisions
It's 11:57AM East Coast as I type this. For now the Wikipedia entry replicates the Webderland biography. I doubt that will last as I see this could be like writing love letters on the beach at low tide but there it is. I saved exactly 1/2 of one sentence from the original citation and changed Painesville to Cleveland. I also added a few things to the bibliography. If Rick or Harlan have a problem with that biography being used I'll take it down and write something else.

- Barney

It's okay, Rich,
The proof's in the pudding. In the end anyone who cares or is curious will know what's rotten in Mason.

The expert witness presented by the state, from the DPS lab handling toxicology said an eightball was 4 grams. That was the opinion I based my statement on. Even if you use your own measurement there is a missing quantity of meth. I also thought it was odd that they only had the testimony of one cop. She said she had backup but he was not present. The other witness, the Confidential Informant was also not present but they mentioned her name. The most compelling part of the trial to me had to have been the earnest quality of the defendant on the stand and the way the under cover agent looked and behaved during her testimony. My account is lacking--it doesn't translate well, I know. Someone with more skill could have contained and presented it more clearly perhaps. But in any case, you certainly don't have to believe anything I write here. I encourage you not to read my posts if they bore or disturb you.

But I post 'em as I sees 'em and the running record is invaluable to me. So are the questions of those who disbelieve. I understand it is foreign to most people who have no dealings with the cops. I was that way once as well. It wasn't until Sam's case that I began to see the pattern of officer abuse growing exponentially in our community. The more power Low gets the more abuse he seems to inflict on those under his control. Low brought in 3 of the other 4 officers to our town. One quit after 5 months and said this was the "dirtiest police force" he had ever seen. There are two left from that regime along with Low. The other two are the Sheriff (who will be leaving on December 31rst) and the cop in the Omar case.

As I said, it's okay not to believe me, it doesn't bother me because I know my claims are outrageous-- as outrageous as the actions of these cops. As they say in Texas, " hide and watch" what I have written is right and true and in the end you'll know it.

Cindy

Rich Weems:

By all means, quit reading Cindy's posts. She is relating what she is told and feels and you and some other guy keep saying that you don't believe her. So stop reading and stop responding.

It's like that tv thing. If you don't like what you are seeing, change the damned channel.

Sheesh.

Cindy,
There is nothing in your post concerning Hector that would indicate a conspiracy by the police. Sounds like the cop got what she paid for (and an "eight ball" is closer to 3.5 grams than 4) and they may not have wanted to bust the guy immediately depending on what the police were actually trying to accomplish. Since he was on probation, it probably didn't help his defense any when he's selling speed. Quite frankly, I'm actually surprised they released the guy after getting convicted.

Based on this post and your more recent posts, I have to go on record here and state that I'm having some doubts as to the validity of some of your claims. I've mentioned in other threads that I am available if you need assistance---and that still holds true, but I cannot continue to read these accounts and take what you've said at face value. I sincerely hope I'm wrong and that you are doing the right thing, but my faith is being shaken when you post accounts such as what happened with Hector.

Barney and Harlan - I don't know if working to correct Wikipedia is even worth the effort based on the nature of their operation.

A "wiki" is a website in which a single user can add content, but ALL users can edit content. Without restriction. You, me, Joe Shit the Ragman, anybody. The Wikipedia people spell it out on their entry editing page: "If you do not want your writing to be edited mercilessly and redistributed at will, do not submit it."

It's a fact-seeker's nightmare, the on-line, mutating, real-time example of thousands of monkeys hacking at row upon row of keyboards, with little in the way of guideline or review except by the masses themselves. This is why they have at the top of their general disclaimer page in big letters "WIKIPEDIA MAKES NO GUARANTEE OF VALIDITY" Their entire disclaimer makes it clear that Wikipedia amounts to little more than a collection of hearsay and a massive typing exercise.

If Sturgeon's Law had an ID, this would be the monster from it.

You could labor long and hard to create a meaningful entry. An hour after it goes up, the paragraphs on TLDV and CP could be added right back in, along with five hundred other things that some schmuck in West Bumblefuck is sure he read in an interview or was told by the friend of a cousin of his college roommate that Harlan did back in 1974 in a mad rage at Worldcon, and there's nothing you can do about it except change it back. There's a law of diminishing returns in a venue where anyone has the power to add their two cents of whatever as gospel truth. (Though they do provide a somewhat useful History tab that identifies when changes were made and by whom - sometimes a name, sometimes just an IP address or an account user ID - sometimes with user details on what change was made; it also links a stored copy of the entry at the time it was changed, so a quick eyeballing can determine what was altered.)

Should it be corrected? I'd say that it must be factual; people WILL go there looking for meaningful information, blowing past any and all disclaimers and taking what they find at face value. It's the way of the net.

But if you go in that direction, go into it knowing that the task of ensuring it remains correct - especially with the number of people who like to tweak you, Harlan, for the sake of seeing what shade of white hot crimson rage they can make you turn - will be Sisyphean. At best.

Offered wit nothin' but love and an eye for all y'all's backs.

Oh goodie...
Harlan,

Shit. I should have stuck with the Google scholar thing.

Yes, I just READ as in REALLY read the damned Wikipedia thing and definitely see what you're saying. MOSTLY it's the tone and the priorities that now make me suspect nothing objective was attempted here. In fact this looks like anything BUT scholarship by groupthink and more like the work of one or two sets of hands.

Ok, I'll give it a shot, but not today. Or at least not the whole thing. Kyla is going in for knee surgery in 1 hour AND people are going to be crashing here this weekend, but it's on my plate.

I can make the Cleveland change and add things I know to be correct later today but there is one thing that requires your feedback. Namely, is there a 1 or 2 page bio that you do APPROVE OF that I may work from. It doesn't have to be on-line, although for cut and pasting that would sure help. If not on-line then just name the place it appeared. I'm sure I have it. Also, WIKIPEDIA has the same copyright caveats this site has, so if you didn't write it yourself it should be something by Zuzel or Wyatt or someone who isn't going to bite anybody later.

The upside is that this is both fixable and quite expandable. You're entry could be HUGE and GLORIUS. I know, i know, you'd rather it were RIGHT. And now I'm off to hospital.

- Barney

*I dunno if anyone here is aware of it, but part of the music used in George Romero's original NIGHT OF THE LIVING DEAD - a canned score, or 'needle droppings' - was from a very old kiddie t.v. cartoon (I think from the early 60's) called 'Courageous Cat and Minute Mouse' - created by Bob Kane himself as a parody of his own Batman!

**I REALLY wasn’t going to add anymore to the Harlan/Simpsons thread, but I do have to agree and say I could imagine a KILLER Hallowe’en segment; yeah, a chef-d’oeuvre, with our good patron turning into the most carping, IRRITATING werewolf a curse could dump on Springfield. Either that or a wild cackling madman. Yeah, they could call that one HARLAN SNAPS. And many of the elements suggested on this board - well, MINE anyway! - could actually be integrated into the same episode.

…I think Mr. Groening now realizes where the 22 stages of Public Scrutiny are leading!

***BTW…I LIKE Bill Clinton.

Progress is slow...

Scroll on anyone who doesn't care or is looking for a more entertaining read.


This week I talked to an agent in the FBI field office in San Antone. That makes two federal agencies. She said she is investigating the cases and will be coming down here to talk to the witnesses. I urged her to hurry as the cops have the document, the names of the witnesses and what they will swear to. I also told her to contact the witness who still works inside the Sheriff's department. I said she needs to speak to him directly in case there is any retaliation by Low and the others so he would have a paper trail that he'd been in touch with the proper authorities.


I spoke with Malcolm Greenstein yesterday. He said he still hasn't made up his mind on whether or not to take the case/cases. He said he wants to touch base with the attorney (the one I call Merle) again because they worked together for about 30 years in Austin. I begged him not to walk away, this county is up to its ears in bad cops and it's only going to get worse as Low's power increases. I told him I'm afraid someone will be killed if it continues.

I told him there is one County Commissioner who would definitely talk to him. He knows what's going on here and is doing what he can to try and stop it. It's just so hard to get people to understand that sometimes when somebody yells fire in a theatre here really IS FIRE IN THE THEATRE.

I got another case for the file. A former jailer told me Low had sprayed a guy with pepper spray who had begged him not to do it-- the guy told Low that he had undergone Lasik eye surgery. I talked to the guy's wife tonight, he was in the room with her and she asked him about it. He confirmed the story, he said he pleaded with him not to and told him about the surgery, but Low did it anyway-- twice.

This same guy, Hector Berrelles was butchered in court on Tuesday. I don't understand why his attorney would allow the case to be tried by an all white mostly elderly jury, folks who had nothing at all in common with a hispanic man with a pony tail and a criminal record. There were hispanic people in the jury pool but they dismissed all of them. Merle told me yesterday that the D.A. would have won the case if he had just stood up and said, " I have nothing at all to say to any of you-- the prosecution rests." He said he had told the attorney for the defense how conservative Mason is. He also said if he had been Hector's attorney they would have had a come to Jesus meeting with him and he would have tried like hell to persuade him to take a plea bargain. In the Courtroom while the jury was out, Hector told me he had turned down a plea bargain of 1-3 years. He said he wasn't going to do a day of time on the case because he didn't do what that officer said he did. He was very believable. There were holes in the officer'ser case as well. Holes big enough to drive a semi through. For instance, the officer said she bought " an eight ball" of meth, which is (according to the expert from the DPS crime lab in Austin-- 4 grams). She said she got the $250 she used to pay for it from the Task Force fund, but had no paper trail to back it up. She said Hector's little digital scale needed new batteries so she went to the store and bought some for it-- but she had no receipt for any batteries purchased. She said she had gone back to Hector's house and had given him the $250, then Hector left and came back later with a small gold container with the meth in it. She said he measured the meth out onto his scale and it weighed 2.5 grams. By the time it got to Austin's crime lab it was 2.1 grams. What happened to the 4 gram 8 ball? Next she said she knew it was narcotics because she used a test kit on it and it turned blue. Hector's attorney asked to see the test kit, she said she threw it away. Then he asked her if they had gotten Hector's finger prints from the plastic bag he had given her the meth in-- she said , " You can't get prints off a plastic bag. The funny thing is she didn't arrest Hector then-- she didn't confiscate his scales or even the remainder of the meth which she said he put back in his pocket. If you are involved in a sting like this with a drug dealer, don't you arrest them when the deal goes down?

I was having a complete reversal in my perception of cops. I've been married to one for 12 years and I always thought they were the good guys. I never understood what happened in the OJ trail--

Merle said the first attorney who handled the case won it for O.J. He was the guy who got the case shifted from the district containing Brentwood to one in the Wats area ( one "t" or two?). He said the people in that part of LA have long dealt with cops who make the ones in Mason seem like Sunday school kids. He said nobody in that area has any confidence in the police and they don't believe anything they say because they have been or know someone who has been lied to, beaten up or worse.

I am beginning to see why they would be angry enough to hand down a " fuck you" verdict for every time that the cops tampered with things to make a crime look worse, or worse yet, to make it look like it was the work of someone who had no hand in it at all. I wouldn't have done it if I'd been me, but if I lived where they live and had to deal with the stuff we have here only on a larger and grander scale-- who knows. I guess you'd have to walk in their shoes to get it completely but I'm seeing things that are ugly, things I have never seenor even thought of before.

The Jury gave Hector 15 years. He is out until Monday when he's going to turn himself in and go to Burnet ( or Boerne, I can't remember which) where he has to face charges on revokation of probation. His wife said she wants to tell me some things she knows about the local cops-- she wants to meet with me tomorrow. I'll let you know what I find out.



In the meantime I learned today that there were two jurors who felt horrible about convicting Hector. One said she was just sick about it but all but 2 of the other jurors " wanted to fry him". She has major juror's remorse. I wonder if anything can be done to overturn it if one of the jurors was pressured into convicting him.

Some good news, hopeful news; Merle told me he is representing the girl's family in the most recent case against Low that pertained to the incident with the 'drug dog" and the search of her locker at school. He said Low bit the wrong dog on this one. His lies could finally be his undoing. As I said before the girl's daddy didn't just fall off the turnip truck and he has a huge bankroll to back the case. It also helps that Low lied to the Juvenile Justice Officer and the District Judge. So there are two more who know what he is.

Just as I was growing to believe that good cops must be the
minority by A BUNCH, Merle ( this old battle wise criminal defense attorney of 40 or so years told me yesterday that he still believes the good cops comprise around 93% of the total

I guess the other seven percent came to work in Mason.

The cop in the Omar case said his last day of work will be December 17th. He said he's taking a job in Fort Davis.


Harlan,
Did y'all get what I sent you?



Duane,
I am glad if my post was useful to you.
:)
Thank you for saying so.

Cindy

Dave,
:)

BARNEY:

The Wikimedia entry on me is R I F E with serious errors, begining with my alleged place of birth as Painesville, Ohio ... and careering on through to a restatement of dear ole enemy Christopher Priest's scurrilous TLDV assertions, credentialing him as my most serious "vocal critic."

I've sent them an e.mail, but have no idea if they'll get it, pay any attention to it, give a shit about making their extensive entry even remotely accurate, or have the system to receive and enter my corrections...should I make them.

Try reading the damn thing, my brother and old friend.

Since you're the one who fucked up my otherwise decent day by bringing this new annoyance to my attention, pal, I leave it in your adept paws to assist in getting the black hole collapsed.

Wearily, after 50 years of this shit, I remain,

Yr. pal, Harlan

Google scholar
Having been the recipient of more than a few Barney Google [ask your grandparents] remarks in my life I have been more than a little amused to watch Google become the go-to first choice search engine on the planet.

Today I started foooling around with the Google Scholar search engine. To get to it you just hit "more" on their homepage and it's on page 2 of the Google site. OR, just do a Google search for Google Scholar! Needless to say, after playing around with some of the Twain hits I came up with I doubled back and hit the page up for Harlan citations. Not bad at all. If the Harlan links page ever gets re-done - I remember that was a proposed project a couple of years ago - this probably ought to be included.

I didn't find much I hadn't seen before but I think that after Doug Lane, with the help of Copernicus Pro I've probably hit as many obscure Ellison links as anybody on the planet so I'm not a good litmus test for this. The best quick application is that it will tell you VERY quickly if a certain Ellison title is available at a certain local library. Since this board used to get a fair share of "hey, I can't find..." queries that might get some use.

The new-ish online Wikipedia also has a nice Ellison entry. I didn't read it close enough for hardcore fact checking but it seemed ok at first glance. I wouldn't have front loaded the little Disney stint of Harlan's into the 3rd paragraph of the article but I'm not exactly sure how these things are assembled. If keyword hits are a factor, well, then Disney would get the bump.

And that's the news from Lake Barneybegone.

Harlan on Simpsons
Hey, if Matt can't get Harlan in an episode this season, there's a good chance that HE could end up in next year's Halloween show. How cool would that be? Imagine Harlan actually WRITING the segment he's appearing in; or, alternately, writing one of the stories in next year's Treehouse of Horror comics (there's a theme: Stories by HE, Stephen King, Clive Barker, or maybe Nancy Collins!).

Will Susan be on The Simpsons too? I think she should be.

Faisal, thanks for accepting my comments in the spirit I intended. I don't have a dog in this race either, so I'm not invested in arguing the point, but if you want to go into it more, the Forum is a good idea.

Cindy, don't you think it's inflammatory of you to assume that the reason for Eric's tone is that he himself doesn't create anything? And to admonish him to go out into the world to do something? I don't see how you could know what he does or does not do creatively or otherwise. Honestly, I don't know much about the guy's life, and I believe that's how he wants it.

If you want someone to engage in a kinder, gentler debating style, best to model it, no? Accusing him of nasty debating tactics while making unwarranted ad hominem attacks isn't the best way to go about it, IMO.

I say this as a friend and in the spirit of free discourse, not to give you a hard time. I know you know this, but I wanted to say it for the record.

PAB

EZRA/STEPHEN--CONFIRMED.

Thank you.

ELLISON MINI BOOK PURGE
Attn: Susan Ellison

If there are any copies of "SNs inthe PB" left please reserve one for me.

And for identification purposes (in case you get a bunch of correspondence from fake Ezra Lbs.) my "real" name is

Stephen B.

I thank you.

Re: Simpson action figures. Well, I'm very pleased to own a Stephen Hawking action figure from that line, so they have done at least one real person in it.

HE's not a doll, HE's an ACTION FIGURE!
What would Transformer Harlan turn into? A typewriter?

One could have a lot of fun with a doll-sized Harlan with a pull-cord in its back. "Establish enigmas, not explanations." "Turn off that cathode ray idiot box, it's time for Proust." Stuff like that.

Susan:

The check is in the mail. You can pull the address from the check.

Alejandro

I should be doing my homework.
Rob:

I liked the first one. How's about. . .

Lisa wants someone to read her script, so she goes to a book signing, and gets stuck in line behind the comic book guy who's demadning in a loud voice who the hell this "trooper" guy is.

Where do I sign the petition?

Hang on a sec, Faisal,
I have to make this one point, then I'll kindly shutthefuckup.
;)


Eric,
Up close, in-your- face discourse has never been objectionable here. As you correctly assert in your post it is something we all embrace.

It was not your challenge to Faisal's opinions I object to but the lack of respect inherent in your remark that he " get a grip". The invective was not conducive to debate, it was incendiary and I thought, uncalled for. I see no indication that you have been done harm by Faisal's understandable lamentations and could perceive of no justifiable reason for the harsh tone. In short; if you have no dog in the fight, why show even minimal disrespect to someone whose dog is not only in it, but is bleeding and missing an ear? Faisal was diminished by his experience with those who misused something close to his heart, his creation.

I say, debate! Use your sharp wit and tongue when it is appropriate and justified and we will all be dazzled, as we have been in the past.

Cindy

Yo dudes and dudette's,

Thank you to all those who supported me and thanks to Eric and Paula for questioning my original posts. It is a healthy debate and maybe it'd be better to take this matter into the other forum. (And no, I do not accept the excuse that because writers get shafted generally that this should be generally acceptable behaviour... unless they've been generously paid off).

FAQ

JASON--CONFIRMED.

Thank you--Susan

Again, Taking My Life In My Hands
Michael asked:

Harlan, how well do you take a football in the groin?

Answer:

Depends on whether it was thrown by Mad Dogs.


Obscure Ellison References 'R' Us

Actually, a few years back I suggested a Harlan action figure to help raise money for Ellison's legal battle. There's a company that will sculpt heads and sew costumes for a custom 12" action figure.

http://www.andgor.com/Personalized_Figures/personalized_figures.html

Imagine the possibilities for an entire LINE of Harlan figures, even one with a voice chip...

I think Harlan's reply to that was something like "what kind of an idiot would make, let alone buy an action figure of me?" But he wasn't too keen on the idea. :)

A Query Borne From Adam's Idea

Harlan, how well do you take a football in the groin?

Now, here's a waste of a perfectly good post.

Steve: You forgot Tickle-Me-Harlan.

Book Purge
Susan,

If there are any copies of "Sleepless Nights" left, please reserve one for me. Thank you.

Jason

A Harlan Ellison Action FIgure?

Has anyone realized that, as a result of his Simpson's appearance, there is a small possibility that Harlan could become an action figure? I don't know if they've done any Simpson's action figures of celebrity guest appearances, such as Stephen J. Gould, Paul McCartney, etc., but maybe Harlan could arrange to be the first. He could license his image and give the money to some worthy cause.

Steve Dooner

PS. There's money to be made here: Harlan Cabbage Patch Dolls, Raggedy Harlan, Transformer Halan, Bat-Harlan with Undersea Action Gear, Harlan-Harlequins, Harlan Voodoo Dolls, etc.

The last I looked, which was some time ago, this board was a place, among other things, to discuss writers and writers' issues. It was also a place, given the personality of its patron, where people could cut loose and let fly.

Certainly Faisal has felt comfortable doing that, which is his right, and his last few posts have been highly-charged, angry slams against some film producers who in his view have mangled the artistry of certain writers, including himself.

I felt Faisal's opinions were open to debate. I took issue with his position that a writer's original work should be considered etched in stone during the film-making process. And I did so in language far tamer than anything Faisal used, and certainly did not personally skewer him as he did to the aforementioned film producers.

So I'm a little confused as to the objections I'm seeing to my posts. I think some people have lost sight of just what this forum is, or was, all about. There are still a few of us out here who are interested in vigorous, and often impassioned debate about artistic issues, and who are not interested in creating a support group for other posters' personal lives or tribulations.

Call me old school. I see no reason why I can't debate Faisal in language half as strong as the invective he has been using. If there are some who are uncomfortable with the up-close and in-your-face nature of this kind of discourse, tough.

Keith:

"Why don't you just ask Harlan to fuck you and be done with it!?"

...well, I'll need some beer...and lots of those old Italian Hercules movies with Steve Reeves...

Bear in mind, I expect to be PAID!

In the time of pink locusts
I second Adam's HE Simpsons suggestion -- we know that Hans Moleman has a second life as King of the Molepeople. Why not a third? And his ability to survive everything from exploding cars to lengthy X-Ray bombardment to being run over by Homer does seem Ellisonesque, even if nothing else about the character does.

As to Eric, I keep waiting for someone to call him a player hater. I do have it on good authority that he is a cheese-eating surrender monkey with a complete collection of Johnny West action figures, however. Also, he ate the Virgin Mary grilled cheese sandwich.

Cheers, Jon

To follow up on a previous post, either...

Harlan Claus vs. H.O.M.E.R.

or even better...

Homer Claus vs. H.A.R.L.A.N.

Give it a rest indeed.
I think Eric Martin should keep me on retainer or something, because I once again feel the need to take his side in a pile-on. I personally think his point is well-taken. The text is the text and the film is the film; why are we expecting them to be congruent? How often are they anyway, the issue of race aside? Casting decisions are not usually made by the screenwriter, as we all know, so expecting LeGuin to have any say about it is a bit unrealistic. Right?

Also, throwing around the word "racist" in this situation is inflammatory and may well be baseless. I think Eric is right-- the bottom line is what governs these decisions, and while race does play a very real factor in what sells, I think it's dubious to claim that it was an intentionally racist decision. Denzel Washington and Morgan Freeman are cast in roles written for white men because they are great actors and big stars, so their box office draw is what motivates the decision. Is that racist? Maybe I'm being obtuse here, but I don't quite see why those decisions are different from the one Faisal is complaining about.

To claim that Eric is saying what he says out of jealous is just ridiculous. I have no idea where you're getting that, Kristin. And to assume Eric is trying to be mean or hurtful is also off base, Cindy (love you though I do). You're reacting to his tone, which is flippant but was from my reading in no way intended to be hurtful to Faisal. Eric is commenting on Faisal's assertion of racism, not on Faisal himself. You guys are making his comments personal when they weren't. Read what he said and try to evaluate it from an objective place; you'll see that he is making a good point, even if the way he says it rubs you the wrong way.

I don't quite understand why this always happens to Eric. Eh. I bet he doesn't care either. These pile-ons do annoy the crap out of me, though. Aren't you guys sick of kicking him around yet?

PAB

I'm having a good day
Susan, THANKS you are sweet! :) Will have check in mail by tomorrow. (ALREADY separated it from checkbook will send it along with the regular HERC order form I got last time.)

Yay! I got an interview! (not hired yet, an interview appt) Lousy pay, part time and too far away, but it's a job - boring file clerk stuff mostly, but it's darn hard to get an interview around here (now if I could negotiate ten dollars an hour instead of seven which is hardly above minimum wage...)

Michael, you crack me up. I JUUUST listened to On the Road... Vol. 1. The dead-gopher bit. Would it be, um, ethical or responsible to give people ideas for...crude, AMATEUR revenge campaigns? (You don't *start* with the dead animal, silly.) It would make a hilarious in joke though. Hmm, should Mr. Burns keel over and need open-heart surgery? I was thinking, this was recorded twenty years ago, heart attacks aren't so funny when they happen to YOU! (Was somebody sticking pins in a Harlan voodoo doll? Do we know they weren't?)

Besides, the Unabomber killed people other than the target half the time (they didn't open their own mail...) and the Anthrax Mailer was even worse. You can't send postage due building materials any more. Still, all a dead thing does is stink.

Hmm we have to think of something everybody gets and then put in the in-joke only Harlan fans/SF fandom people/comics people etc. can get. (It HAS to be possible! The Animaniacs had two sets of jokes - it was funny for kids, but a lot of it you had to be adult to understand.)

Faisal, I said this to Cindy too - never mind jealous people. How many film scripts have THEY written? I'm not really a creative writer either let alone a screenwriter but I'm not JEALOUS of them! yeesh.

(What's that rare form of dementia where you're a nice person and suddenly turn into a rotten mean asshole (the part of your brain with the social graces goes first) but also suddenly become real creative and do best shut up alone with a canvas or typewriter? It's tragic, I mean eventually the rest of your brain goes and you die, but you can sort of make the best of it. That struck me as "be careful what you ask for." I can't remember the name of it though.)

Kristin
If you google "Langerhans" the other HE site is the SECOND hit you get. (links from other parts of this site don't seem to work) The first one is from emedicine.com: "Langerhans cell histocytosis." (It's named after Paul Langerhans who described it in 1868. have a nice day.)

ALEJANDRO--CONFIRMED.

Thanks--Susan

Harlan,
If you can't find the recording through vinyl record dealers, I would suggest as a last resort the Library of Congress. They own a copy of the Dukes of Dixieland recording and may be able to make a copy for you(depending upon permission, copyright, etc.).
Go to www.loc.gov, click on the "Research Centers" link, then click on the "Recorded Sound" link, where information about obtaining copies is available(Note: this is not cheap).
Hope this helps.
Cheers, Colleen

I'd suggest steering clear of Harlan meeting Comic Book Guy, unless it'd be in such a way to top Harlan's use in Freakazoid.

SUSAN: The check for my copy of SLEEPLESS NIGHTS went in the mail this afternoon.

Best,
Mark W.

Hereby Taking My Life In My Hands
Alternatively: the SIMPSONS episode could reveal that the recurring character Hans Moleman has been producing fiction under a pseudonym.

Cindy,

I know your last post below wasn't addressed to me, but you hit on some universal truths that helped me through a tough spot today. Thanks --Duane

Susan:

Reserve that final copy of Medea for me. Thanks!

Alejandro

Cindy writes:

"Fill up your life with your own achievements and you'll find yourself lacking the time to criticize others for theirs."

Now there's some damn good advice.

In other news, the Necronomicon Press is offering some rare items for Christmas. There's one painting by Lovecraft (the only one known to exist) that's going for $49,500.

Can someone give me a loan?

MATT, DON--YOUR BOOKS ARE CONFIRMED.

There is one MEDEA left. And some SLEEPLESS NIGHTS.

Thanks--Susan

Er, that should be _Matt_'s request. Sorry.

SUSAN - If I counted correctly, there ought to be one MEDEA left (including Faisal's request). I'd like it, please.

Thanks and regards,
Don Hilliard

JOSH:

When the Sci-Fi Channel underwent one of its frequent changes of "the palace guard," the new regime changed the format, killed all the in-house shows, including the one I did with DCP, and Dick Crew lost his biggest production account. He closed down DCP, left the Los angeles area, moved his family up north to Oregon (I believe); and got out of the biz. I have his phone number, but I don't think he has a studio, or even a production company now.

Sorry, kiddo.

Yr. pal, Harlan

United States
Is there a copy of Medea left? If so, I'd like it.

To Faisal Eric Writes;

"Yeah, and the expected boost in ticket sales with Denzel in the lead might have been a factor in his approval as well, ya think? Ayres probably crapped for joy when they signed Washington.

Get a grip. "


I wondered if you have considered why you address others ( who have done you no harm) in this fashion. Faisal has done films of his own and has knowledge grounded in experience. He knows of what he speaks. Perhaps it would enlighten you to create something of your own, apart from these boards. If you work hard enough to produce something that is close to your heart, perfected and refined by endless hours of focus, reflection and attention to detail then you might be able to reconstruct what Faisal is feeling. I submit to you that Faisal's expressions of outrage and observations posted here did in no way warrant your "baseless, inflammatory speculation" remark.

Eric, you have so much to offer- I've seen it in the Ghost. Meanness, critical, useless and unwarranted vitriol are symptomatic. If folks at the school are jacking with you, get in their eye and tell them to knock it the fuck off. Displaced anger is bad form and not worthy of you.

I don't think you belong, working in a setting of hierarchy. You have wings. You should let them dry then use them. Be an eagle, not a pin worm. You should write a book based on the character of the Ghost. He would be the embodiment of all that is elegant, witty, urbane and aristocratic set in the times and embedded in the circles of those golden age icons you have clearly studied and know so well.

I really think you have a gift that is not being used as intended. If you channel your passion and anger into the creative force that gave breath and dimension to the Ghost of Gene Roddenberry you could do wonderful things that multitudes would pay to enjoy.

A byproduct of your success would be the happiness and fulfillment you need to cease these attacks (I am sure you are not responsible for) on those who would do you no harm. Fill up your life with your own achievements and you'll find yourself lacking the time to criticize others for theirs.

I found the Ghost to be charming, and irresistable. The Ghost is you and you are the Ghost. Work to realign your life. Purge yourself of the insecurities causing your reflexive need to lash out for no reason and I believe everything that sparkles and is unique and desireable in Eric Martin will be permanently revealed.

Step up to the plate, Eric. Waste no more of your valuable time thinking up petty, caustic jabbs. Shake the clay from your oxfords and fly;the world is your waiting oyster.

Cindy

No Harlan Please!
I'm already getting fucked.

I keep coming back to this Simpsons thing, and the only way I can think of is that Harlan, discovering the inept corruption of Springfield's ruling elite, decides to aid Homer to once again done the vestments of his alter ego Pieman to bring Burns, Wiggum, Quimby, Skinner, etc. low. Harlan serves as Homer's armourer and mentor, but due to Homer's incompetence must always finish the job. Think of it as a poor man's "Santa Claus vs. S.P.I.D.E.R.".

I keep getting a great image of Burns getting a dead raccoon in the mail. As Harlan and Homer watch from a window, Burns sniffs at it and says "Huzzah, still fresh!", mounts the animal on a spit and puts the works into the fireplace. Rubbing his hands with glee, Burns turns to his lackey and says "Forty more minutes, and it's done, Smithers! Mmmmm, you can just smell the all year radial imprint!".

Finally, Harlan gives up on the effort to deal justice after dealing with Homer's constant mistaken praise of Ellison's writing of "Invisible Man":

Homer: "Wow, Harlan Ellison's helping me to get even with all these crooks. Really smart, a great writer, a really nice guy to both my kids and my wife...

Harlan: "Homer, you forgot Maggie again."

Homer: ...and a Jewish mensch from Ohio that could brilliantly capture the struggle of African Americans for rights, freedom and recognition in America during the pre-Civil rights era. How cool is that?"

Micheal

GARY, TONY T., KRISTIN and MARK---Books reserved.

Kristin--It is $3.00 PER ORDER. My error, your benefit. Your CA tax will come to $4.95. Total order=$67.95.

Sweet Jezus Rob,

Why don't you just ask Harlan to fuck you and be done with it!?

Here's winkin' at you.

-Keither

Book Purge
Please reserve TWO copies of SLEEPLESS NIGHTS

One for Bill Manley
One for Tanglewood’s Guardian of Space and Time


I'll send the check as soon as I get home.


Sincere thanks,
Gary

Ah, well...since it appears that Harlan WILL eventually be incarnated as a four-fingered, bug-eyed, yellow-skinned creature, I just hope it'll be a halfway decent appearence. I've never been a terribly huge fan of THE SIMPSONS, or their "roll-out-the-red-carpet" treatment of guest celebrities. Like any long, long, LONG running show, stories run from hot to very cold. When it comes to Harlan, there can be NO glamorization or genteel attitude given; no finger-pointing by the regular characters when Harlan first appears, accompanied by "GASP! Harlan Ellison!!". (I saw the episode last night featuring Stan Lee, and although it was admittedly hilarious to watch Stan's pathetic attempt at turning into the Incredible Hulk, I couldn't get over the first starry-eyed moment of his arrival at Comic Book Guy's store.) There should be at least a REASON why Harlan's suddenly located in Springfield. It doesn't have to be a terribly convincing reason. I just don't feel comfortable with guest celebrity appearances that simply kind of...happen. (What WAS Stan Lee doing at Comic Book Guy's store, anyway? Could we have been given just a hint, a clue, a slightly reasonable motivation for Stan being in a godforsaken place like Springfield?) Haraln should SLIDE, or even SLITHER into the scene, unnoticed at first by all of the characters - as opposed to having the spotlight IMMEDIATELY shone on him. We should first see him as a strange-looking little whacko banging away at a typewriter in the background as Bart and Comic Book Guy argue over a recent issue of RADIOACTIVE MAN at a comics convention, for example. A few of Rob's suggestions for Harlan's drop-by in Homer's hometown were superb, for example. I also have to agree with Rob. If Harlan's going to be on the show, give him a FULLY-FLEDGED APPEARENCE. GO ALL THE GODDAMN WAY....none of this Hitchcockian cameo nonsense. If THE SIMPSONS can feature an entire episode dedicated to that megalomaniacal dickweed Mel Gibson, then Harlan deserves at least an equally meaty role.

Those are my thoughts, in any case.

Book Purge order
Susan wrote:

Please reserve one of each for me. The check for $63.00 is going out this morning. Thanks.

>If those folks had real guts, they'd have tried to discuss it with Le Guin which they plainly were afraid to do.<

Baseless, inflammatory speculation. It's not a matter of guts anyway, it's a matter of money. Like houses, movies are put together by a lot of different people with financial backing, for the prime purpose of making a profit. Successful screenwriters, like good architects, understand that and don't try to hold everyone's livelihood hostage to some idealised artistic vision.

I would baselessly speculate that LeGuin is more than happy with her check, and doesn't fret over how filmmakers handle a sold property that remains "artistically pure" and in its original literary form, for anyone who would care to stop gaping at movie screens and go read it.

Susan: I'd like one of each book - that would be $6 total shipping, right? That is $3 per hardcover (as it says on the Herc order form) not $3 per order I think. (Just need to know how much. CA sales tax is..um lessee.....$4.95 on a $60 order.)

Humm, the best indie record stores at LEAST 50 to 60 miles out of my way. Dukes of Dixieland has an official website, fan club (well email list) and info (i pasted this in)

Phone- 1-800-432-3853
504-299-9000

Fax- 504-299-9090

Mailing Address:
Dukes of Dixieland
PO Box 56757
New Orleans, LA 70156

E-Mail:
info@dukesofdixieland.com

so maybe you could badger them every week about reissuing a set of rarities! There is a place called Vinyl Revival in Chicago, but haven't got the phone no here (I think it's only new/audiphile reissue stuff anyway? All genres) Earth Wave Records (http://www.earthwaverecords.com)is an online store (they might be brick&mortar too) specializing in rare vinyl. They're in Rohnert Park CA 707-795-1660 FAX: 707-795-1665. I don't think either one has what you are looking for AT THE MOMENT. Anything used/rare/out of press you have to haunt the collector shops/auction sites.

Oooh! Harlan, I'd just LOVE to see ya smite some evil-doer on the Simpsons! (crackup) who most deserves it, do you think?

Rob's suggestions are all WONDERFUL!!! I wish they could do them all!

Of course, they'll probably do the Star Trek thing, since more people have heard of that.

kristin

Harlan's Visit To Springfield

I would urge Matt Groening to make Harlan a guest CHARACTER rather than a mere cameo (hell, if they could make George Bush senior a full-fledged character, duking it out with Homer in the sewers, YOU’D be a SNAP!).

All WE need do is recap Harlan's experiences on college campuses, at conventions, in the socio-political arenas, and with oddball fans all but stalking him up to his house, and you SEE a Simpsons episode in every single one of ‘em. The Simpsons has lampooned our education system, illiteracy in the country, copyright theft, pop obsessions, comics and Trekkie fandom, mob mentality, ambiguous voters (who want a health care system but don’t wanna pay taxes), religious cults, hypocrisy, etc. Harlan has visited Springfield MANY, MANY times throughout his obstreperous life; he’d have fit into ANY of those episodes.

This is a show which would HAVE to take advantage of the MANIC Ellison. Harlan, I would make dynamic use of your Cagney-like staccato speech pattern; I think you should use that to full effect. Imagine doing a ROARING 20'S parody, with you knockin' Chief Wiggums 'round when you're on the skids! And you know you've reached the lowest point when it takes HOMER to pull you OUT of the skids.

Hey! Imagine Harlan doing an appearance at Springfield Elementary like he does at the college campuses, and he has to deal with Skinner’s anal retentiveness, and then Miss Crabapple’s advances ("that was OUR broom closet, Edna!"); but then finds sanity and sanctuary in the gifted Lisa (recall the moving episode with Dustin Hoffman!).

Or…Harlan has to deal with the Comic Book Guy at a book signing

Or…Harlan gets abducted by Kang and Kodos

Or...Harlan gets abducted by Jay Sherman

Or…Harlan takes over the house while Marge goes on sabbatical - figuring, at first, he might get some writing done in peace as their guest, but forced to tutor Bart and Homer in virtues with a good solid right after they torture him with their boorishness

Or…Lionel Hutz successfully entices Harlan into participating in a crooked lawsuit (recall would they did to Jane Goodall, where she secretly put the chimps to work in the diamond mines; or Bill Gates who smashes up Homer's house with maniacal laughter and goes: "I didn’t get rich by writing a lot of checks!")

Or…Harlan’s car breaks down passing through Springfield and Ned Flanders puts him up for the night…and insists on saving his soul whether he likes it or not! (The show has always had an Atheist subtext)

Or…Harlan gives up writing just for the CHANCE to work in the Kwik-E-Mart

Or…Harlan has to confront Krusty’s "sense" of Jewish heritage

Endless possibilities. Lotsa verisimilitude. YOU were always a natural for the show, Harlan. So MANY of your experiences echo satire. It IS astounding you didn’t land a spot several seasons ago, when the show’s writing was at its peak.

Dick Crew Productions...
Harlan, whatever became of DCP? The last I saw of them was "Scifi Entertainment".

The reason I am asking is because I am trying to get something off the ground and I loved the style that DCP had and I would like to contact them (if they are still around, I understand that I am going back awhile here) about my project. If you can be any help in this matter I would greatly appreciate it (if you don't want to post the info in a public forum I can be contacted at mhadley@itol.com).

Sorry if I am out of line asking about this but I can seem to find any decent info on Google.

"The Shawshank Redemption" is a miserable failure because it pretendeds that racial issues don't exist in American prisons, 1950's prisons in particular. Among other sacharine touches. . .

But getting back to Earthsea, maybe no black folk auditioned for the role. ..

Anthony - Thanks very, very much for the info; I've yet to track down a copy of the Scrapbook for myself, but it's got a slot waiting on my shelf next to Will Murray's Duende History and the Gibson bibliography by Cox. Very cool to me to hear Gibson did actually script The Shadow for radio.

Harlan - The feelers are out for "Piel Canela", but it's been a long time since I cast about for anything even remotely like a phonograph record. Still, if anything develops I'll give a yell.

SUSAN: Please reserve one copy of SLEEPLESS NIGHTS for me.

Many Thanks,
Mark Walsh

>the writer David Ayres, approved of Washington's casting even though the character was written as a white cop. <

Yeah, and the expected boost in ticket sales with Denzel in the lead might have been a factor in his approval as well, ya think? Ayres probably crapped for joy when they signed Washington.

Get a grip.

The Shadow and Walter Gibson's radio scripts
Actually, Walter Gibson wrote at least one (and possibly more) radio episodes of THE SHADOW. He wrote an audition episode that aired June 15, 1934 over New York's WMCA ... which featured the black-cloaked, automatic-wielding figure from the pulps, as well as the pulp characters of Lamont Cranston, Burbank, Harry Vincent and Cliff Marsland. That particular script is pure Gibson pulp.

Recently-unearthed correspondence suggests that Walter probably also wrote the 1938 Goodrich episode, "Revenge on The Shadow." An April 1938 letter to Walt from SHADOW MAGAZINE-editor John Nanovic states that producer Bourne Ruthrauff has agreed to Gibson's terms and wants Walter to provide scripts. "Revenge on The Shadow" aired four months later and features an Asian villain who has enhanced his occult powers though a pilgrimage to the tomb of Genghis Khan, who hypnotizes Margot Lane to shoot Lamont Cranston. Gibson used the same gimmick six months later when he wrote the first of his four Shiwan Khan novels (and the scene was of course repeated in the 1994 film).

Regarding SHADOW radio interpretations, only Frank Readick gave the role any sort of shadowy quality. Though none of his full broadcasts survive, his marvelous opening and closing signatures are featured on ALL of the Orson Welles SHADOW broadcasts. (Welles is the only radio Shadow who never performed the classic "Who knows what evil ..." and "Weed of crime" signatures because Orson was never able to perfect the laugh.) Readick was a master of microphone technique, and performed his Shadow lines in a biting stage whisper that came through loud and clear over the airwaves, with a venomous shadowy quality that none of his successors achieved. His sibilant portrayal was the one Gibson always described in print, and is very different from the somewhat Shakespearian declaration performed by Bret Morrison.

BTW, while Readick's 1930-35 radio performances as The Shadow are lost (except for his openings), Universal has the half-dozen SHADOW DETECTIVE STORY two-reelers he did in 1931-32 (adapted from Street & Smith's 1930-31 DETECTIVE STORY PROGRAM). The first of these ("Burglar to the Rescue") was screened at the Egyptian Theatre a few months ago as part of the Cinecon program, and I understand that Cinecon plans to show another one at next year's convention. These are The Shadow's earliest surviving dramatic appearances, predating the Welles shows by six years, and feature The Shadow as a narrator/host ala his radio successors, The Whistler and the Mysterious Traveler.

Orson Welles had nothing to do with THE SHADOW scripts and occult/hypnotic background. (That was added by scriptwriter Edward Hale Bierstadt, and most likely inspired by Alexandra David Neel's 1932 book, MAGIC AND MYSTERY IN TIBET, which also influenced the creation of the Green Lama, Chandu the Nagician and Omar the Mystic.) Welles didn't even read the scripts prior to broadcast; Orson's assistants William Alland and Richard Wilson marked up his scripts and performed his role in rehearsals. Welles himself was way too busy directing rehearsals for his Broadway Mercury Theatre company. As Orson himself recalled: “My God, I didn't even know what was going to happen to me while I was in ‘em. Not rehearsing—which was part of my deal with Blue Coal, the sponsor—made it much more interesting. When I was thrown down the well or into some fiendish snake pit, I never knew how I'd get out.”

Personally, I prefer Readick's portrayal of The Shadow and Bill Johnstone's performance as Cranston. Orson played Cranston as pretty much a smartass college kid, while Bret Morrison's portrayal was just too elegant. John Archer's Cranston was more of a hardboiled detective, but did feature some very interesting scripts by Alfred Bester. Johnstone had just the right degree of power, maturity and sophistication. Unfortunately, no episodes are known to survive of Carl Kroenke (who starred as The Shadow/Lamont Cranston in the 15-minute serial first syndicated in 1935, or Steve Courtleigh who starred in the first half-dozen episodes of the 1945-46 season. However, both Shadow-director Bob Steel and Courtleigh's brother told me that he was fine in the character role of The Shadow but too wooden as Cranston.

--Anthony Tollin (co-author, THE SHADOW SCRAPBOOK)

ELLISON MINI BOOK PURGE
While resorting a storage area, I pulled a few extra copies of:

MEDEA: HARLAN'S WORLD (Bantam trade paperback--1985) and

SLEEPLESS NIGHTS IN THE PROCRUSTEAN BED (Borgo Press trade paperback--1984)

We have 5 copies of MEDEA and 20 copies of SLEEPLESS NIGHTS in mint condition. $30.00 each. Postage $3.00 per order.
CA Residents please add 8.25% sales tax.

As usual; first come, first served. To reserve a copy, just let me know on the board. After, send payment with your name, address and to whom you would like the book personalized.

SEND TO:

THE KILIMANJARO CORPORATION, Post Office Box 55548, Sherman Oaks, California 91413.

With kind thanks--Susan

Harlan,

Was not able to find a copy of "Piel Canela" (though the internet is hardly a thorough search). But I was able to obtain some information that may aid in the quest of this recording.

According to the "Assunto's Real Dukes of Dixieland" website (http://www.thedukesofdixieland.com/) the recording you seek is a 78 (not a 45) on the "Okeh" label, catalog number 6995, released in 1953. In addition to "Piel Canela" the other song on the this record is "Angelica".

The band for this recording was:

Trumpet: Frank Assunto
Trombone: Freddie Assunto
Clarinet: Bill Shea
Piano: Stanley Mendelson
Bass: Chink Martin Jr
Drums: Buck Rogers
Vocals: Frank Assunto
Vocals: Betty Owens

Hope this helps,
Andrew

WHY A DUCK?


Personally, I'm afraid to see EARTHSEA. I couldn't bring myself to finish watching what they did to RIVERWORLD. Although I did switch back to cringe at the final ten minutes. Poor Phil...

This talk of old timey radio reminded me of MY FAVORITE COMEDY GROUP: the Marx bros!. I have a book that collects the old scripts from FLYWHEEL, SHYSTER AND FLYWHEEL. I think it was first aired in 1932. Somehow I have never come across any tapes or audio of any kind from this show. Do any exist? It was originally titled BEAGLE, SHYSTER AND BEAGLE.

Le Guin casting issue and more...
OK, this is my issue with the comments given by Mr Halmi Sr and his cronies concerning Earthsea. He claims that his casting of the show was colour blind... OK, I wanna know what he told the casting people? If he truly believed this, I wanna see the following memo:

"Right folks, I'm going to be completely colour blind here. We're only casting completely on talent and colours not going to be an issue at all so I won't mind if you have Danny Glover playing Ged's old man and his Mother is played by Angela Basset and then we have Leonardo De Caprio playing Ged? Is that clear. I'm being completely colour blind here and judging only on talent, because just because we cast one character as white doesn't mean that the rest of the casting has to follow the same ethnic make up? You understand? I'm just judging on talent alone".

(Didn't Brangh do this for his adaptation of "Much Ado about Nothing" and "Love Labours Lost"?)

Shawshank Redemption and Training Day worked because the film makers did believe that talent justified switching the ethnic mix and in the former, race wasn't an issue whilst in the latter, it put an added layer to the film. Ethan Hawkes confirmed to me that in Training Day, the writer David Ayres, approved of Washington's casting even though the character was written as a white cop. LeGuin though is a writer who does think carefully about race in her work (look at The Left Hand of Darkness or The Lathe of Heaven as two good examples).

If those folks had real guts, they'd have tried to discuss it with Le Guin which they plainly were afraid to do. Probably because they realised it was an important point for her.

Harlan - have sent out the hounds to retrieve such a vinyl.

FAQ

More on Robert Arthur
We were at a party, discussing old stories we'd loved and read as kids, particularly some of the "Alfred Hitchcock" anthologies, which usually had very little to do with Alfred Hitchcock except as a label to help market them, and we got onto a particular few stories, wondering who had written them.

There was the one about the stamps from a mythical land which, when affixed to a package, would get it magically delivered within moments. And the one about the rose-crystal bell with the power of life and death. But mostly the one about the small town that get perfect poetic justice for one day, because of the unselfish wish of a sick child.

All of these stories are in the book "Ghosts and More Ghosts," and they are all by Robert Arthur. If you're interested in the man's work, that one contains some of his best work.

Harlan, would you have any other recommendations?

Hanging by a ...
Greg:

It's hardly a thread. I've forgotten all about it in my jubilation at the thought of Harlan being on The Simpsons. I've been a fan of Matt Groening since the Simpsons were on The Tracey Ullman Show, and from Life in Hell strip, so having both Harlan and Matt in one place, wow, better combo than chocolate and peanut butter.

Harlan, keep us posted on when you'll be on so we can all set our TiVOs and DVRs.

PAB

OKAY, OKAY, OKAY, ALREADY ...!

So I called Matt Groening and did what I have never done in the 15-20-25-whatever-it-is-now years of watching THE SIMPSONS.

He says it's a grand idea; he doesn't know why they haven't done it long since; and though they're nearly done writing all of this season's shows, and are already working in final production stages of most of them, he's going to see if he can slip me in this season, but if not ... definitely NEXT SEASON, just to stop the pack of you barking at me.

SO>>>>>>>>>..........!!!!!!!!!! Now that I did YOU a favor, I have need of you doing ME one. To whit:

I have tried everywhere I could search: brick&mortar, google, internet, word of mouth, collectors' magazines, and I mean full court press E V E R Y W H E R E to find the following:

A 45 rpm vinyl recording of the classic Mariachi tune called

PIEL CANELA (pronounced pee-ALE can-ALE-ah)

recorded back in the 1950s, I believe, by EITHER

THE DUKES OF DIXIELAND or

THE FIREHOUSE 5 + 2

and never included on any of their 33 lps, as far as I know. It is a song that has been recorded by MANY OTHER artists, but I want ONLY ONLY ONLY ONLY the one recorded by the Dukes or the Firehouse 5.

I have been looking for this for 20 years+ and if someone wants to locate it for me, through whatever electronic lodestone some of youse guys use with such alacrity, I will pay you WHATEVER.

In exchange for your nuhdzing me onto THE SIMPSONS.

Yr. pal, Harlan

It's me again.
Sorry to break the one post per day edict, but I just had an epiphany. We’ve all heard about Harlan’s attempts to get an anthology show featuring his stories, a la his Dream Corridor comic. We all know how unbelievable great that would be. Even though it would get put in the Friday Night Death Slot opposite WHO WANTS TO A BULEMIC or whatever reality nightmare Fox has up its corporate sleeves at the moment, and would get canceled after three episodes under the illusion that no one wants to see anthology shows because the same people ain’t in em week to week. But what if someone did a radio version? It could be like 2000x, only with all Harlan stories. Fully cast, fully soundscaped audio. With an all star cast to do “I Have No Mouth…” and “Along the Scenic Route” or “Jeffty is Five.” All hosted of course, by our own Unca Harlan, fresh from his guest stint on The Simpsons.

Now THAT’S a petition worth passing around.

re: Faisal/Berman thread
Then there's the whaaa??? factor as seen in Laurence Fishburne's "Whitey Powers" character in 'Mystic River'.

Harlan on 'Simpsons'? Should/could involve the ol' "City...." charge of Scotty's on drugs, with the Comic Book Guy or even our own "Ghost of Gene Roddenberry" wanking the claim? A 2001 parody with a HARLAN 9000?? Did Maggie ever speak??? Hmmm.....

Harlan on the Simpsons
Harlan doing a guest stint on the Simpsons would be MAHvelous. Perhaps he could be a guest at Springfield's Bi-Mon Sci-Fi Con. Let's start a petition.

As for Thomas Pynchon, I seem to recall an earlier episode in which he appeared as a guest voice. He appeared with a paper bag over his head.

I saw an amazing thing on the season premier of the Simpsons this sunday. Thomas Pynchon actually made a voice-over fast appearance--at least in the credits it said that it was the voice of the actual Mr. Pynchon.

I'd suggest an "I Have No Mouth" riff, perhaps as part of the "Treehouse of Horror" annual.

Perhaps an insane parking meter could keep the Simpsons clan in its clutches...

Micheal

Harlan and Futurama
My money would be on Harlan showing up as one of the celebrity heads floating in jars that they do from time to time. He could be revealed at the end of an episode, a la the wizard of Oz, after having spent the show impersonating an insane A.I..



if wishes were fishes...

Guest-Appearance on the Simpsons
Were you to do so, Harlan, I think it would be cooler to play a character as opposed to an overbited version of yourself -- if for no other reason, then because characters re-appear...!

An appearance of Harlan on the Simpsons would have to lead to the death of Comic Shop Guy. After an exchange the FCC might have problems with.

- Barney

CouldyouBEanyolder, PA.

Harlan

I'd think your personage better suited to Groening's "Futurama". Well, that's not exactly true, but, the scifi parody thing...you know.

Either situation would be so fooking cool, brutha-daddy.

Respectfully,

Neal

I would ADORE to be a visitor on THE SIMPSONS. I do know Matt Groening casually, but it never occured to me to brace him for an appearance. If any of you have access, you might drop a bug in his ear. I think it'd be great sport, parody, lampoon, self-derision, serioso, or whatever.

Yr. pal, Harlan

Here's a bit of information I found today while studying:
Days off per year (holidays, vacation, 1997): USA 21 days. Japan 31 days. Germany 41 days.
And from another source: actual working hours per year: USA 1815, GB 1707, France 1545, Germany 1444, Netherlands 1340.
Kind of interesting.
Jan

Harlan on THE SIMPSONS?

No, thank you. I don't have any desire to see Harlan incarnated as a four-fingered, big-eyed, yellow-skinned two-dimensional creature.

Helping People for Hire
Don't forget "Box 13" starring Alan Ladd as Dan Holiday.

"Adventure wanted: will go anywhere, do anything - Box 13."

Rob,

It’s not quite what you’re describing, but sticking to the radio show theme for a moment, there actually was a program about a guy who’d handle your problems. It also actually started out on TV and then became a radio show, which was somewhat unusual.

The show in question was “Have Gun, Will Travel.” Richard Boone played the main character, Paladin, on TV, and John Dehner essayed the role on radio.

Heinlein, of course, evoked that series via the title of one of his novels, “Have Spacesuit, Will Travel.”

Paladin, based in San Francisco, would hire himself out to people who needed help. But he wasn’t simply a hired gun. There were some types of jobs he wouldn’t take, no matter how much money was offered.

And like Britt Ponsit, sometimes he found himself caught up in a situation, and got involved against his better judgment.

And while we’re on the topic of radio westerns, the long-running “Gunsmoke” remains an excellent series, with well developed, three-dimensional characters, who have very human flaws and frailties. William Conrad’s Marshal Matt Dillon could be short tempered, and sometimes quit in disgust that the townspeople and nearby ranchers didn’t always appreciate the law, and his own efforts to enforce it. Howard McNear’s Doc Addams had a slightly morbid streak (especially in the early days). And so on.

Regarding Harlan on “The Simpsons.” Theoretically, it could still happen, if he’s interested. The show’s still on the air, after all.

I'm curious, though. Harlan, if you did have an interest in appearing on "The Simpsons" would you want to poke fun at yourself, or would you want to appear in a (relatively) serious way?

Rick

Hi folks.
Thanks for the old time radio information. This discussion is fascinating!

Just got my package from Deep Shag with BOTH Harlan On the Road CDs! Ooooh....of course either I'll have to listen at three AM, or through headphones, or sit in the car, or risk the wrath of my mother "What kind of monster is that screeching out of the speakers?" lol.

Mary: yeah, ain't this place wonderful?? (G)

Kristin

Faisal:

How closely is the filmmaker expected to adhere to the original text and when he doesn't, when does that constitute a racist agenda? For instance, did it bother you when Morgan Freeman played Red in the film of Stephen King's SHAWSHANK REDEMPTION? The character is clearly an Irish American redhead in the book but is changed to an African American whose last name is Redding. Seems to me a dicey business, deciding where that line is...

PAB

Rick K,

"Just a guy who found himself getting involved in other people's problems."

That's what I need just about now. I've been looking for the Britt Ponsits and the Andy Griffiths all my life. Y'know, it would be nice if there were professional services, wherein, like a plumber to fix your sink, a guy comes to your home and resolves ALL your problems for you (with sliding scale fees, of course). A loafer's Mr. Fix-It. I think there's some writing material there!

At any rate, thanks. That was just one recording I'd heard on the radio several years ago while I was driving, and I didn't remember much of it.

**Incidentally, Thomas Pynchon was on the Simpsons the other night. I only wish the episode had been better.

HARLAN should have done a SIMPSONS!

The more I come to this website, the more I avoid television. I am now encouraged to read "Earthsea" and "The Asiatics" and listen to old radio programs. I become more curious everyday. This is not to say that there aren't good programs or movies out there. But it's nice to know one I can turn on the movie in my head and enjoy my imagination after a hard day's work.

The only thing that's driving me crazy is that I haven't finished "Lord of the Rings" yet. I'd better get going!

Mary
Who's on the edge of her seat wondering what news Cindy has in store for this site...

ROB,

I recently managed to get my hands on Gibson's very first "Shadow" pulp, THE SHADOW STRIKES. I don't know how heavily Lamont Cranston figured into later novels, but Lamont isn't mentioned in the slightest in THE SHADOW STRIKES. In fact, the principal character of the story is young Harry Vincent, while the Shadow himself remains a dark, unseen presence for most of the book. Kind of like Sauron from THE LORD OF THE RINGS, except...well, a good guy.

I was delighted to have received a flyer in the mail about HE’s STRANGE WINE signing! I’ve already got the hardcover signed in person around 1990 and about a dozen of his paperbacks signed (on Ebay) but as soon as I recover from my penurious state of affairs I’ll get another very collectable goodie. Back to my penurious state! BTW, Wouldn’t it be cool if we had some of HE’s stories in Radio dramas much like X Minus 1?

MF Korn

Faisal: My thanks, and repeated thanks to all who expressed sentiments.

I'm even back to work.

I'm of two minds on the issue of alteration of race, gender and/or culture:

I've not read Earthsea, but it seems to me that the insights and conflicts that are drawn within the work are lessened by such meddling to pander to audience (the likely fear of producers in this case and others is to play to demographics instead).

On the other hand, I recall reading of Joanna Russ' suggestion to alter a copy of "The Left Hand of Darkness" by replacement of all the masculine pronouns within the novel by writing them in the feminine. I took the suggestion in pen to a paperback of the novel, then put it down for a few months, later returning to read it within the differed context. It did give Ai's tale a more interesting feel, the alteration giving the work more a sense of comprehension of the undercurrents of xenophobia, in the character Ai's attempt to contact and comphrehend the Gethen. Even more, It gave me a bit more of an insight into that creature most alien, woman. It could be because Genry is the most feminine of LeGuin's protagonists, at least in my estimation. The point being, the alteration was done for the differentiation of impact, an artistic experiment to cultivate a different viewpoint, there was no intent a profit on my part.

It must depend on the final intent of the person making the changes, I guess, whether or not the changes are designed to commercial marketability or artistic re-interpretation. If the purpose is merely to obtain or retain a pre-determined audience, then I don't feel it to be for the best. Such mutations are very likely not to work, as most of the target viewers will have read the work and could experience aversion to the character being altered so drastically in both a physical description and their inherent cultural milieu that is expected by the reader from what the writer has sculpted in their mind's eye.

Faisal,
Rant on. That'd piss me off too. Think about this, though-- why don't you do your own films your way? YOU DO IT! I know you have the ability. Why let the dogs have your children? Keep your pearls for yourself.

I hope you're well.

Your friend,
Cindy

Race and Fantasy
I guess that's why we don't see a lot of adaptations of Octavia Butler's fantastic work.

Earthsea and Ms. Le Guin's intentions
Actually Keith, I'm afraid Ms. Le Guin was very aware of what the the racial distinction she'd made. I mean, c'mon man - descriptive words don't accidentally type themselves - any author makes conscious decisions as they write. And while that doesn't prevent people from making shallow descriptive choices, it does seem like racial characteristics are tied to deeper themes in the book.
I haven't yet read the books, but I found following article (a brief sample follows) pretty interesting:
http://www.thenewstribune.com/soundlife/story/4157390p-3921093c.html
from the article:
"In Le Guin’s novels, on which the miniseries is based, Ged has red-brown skin. In Earthsea, most white people are villains.
“That was a completely deliberate political act,” Le Guin said recently of her racial choices in “A Wizard of Earthsea,” first published in 1968.
“Fantasy has been pretty much a white game,” she said. “I was sick of that already in 1968. I thought, this is silly, this is stupid.”

That being her stance, I have a hard time imagining she agreed to the casting. I can understand the basis for your argument that race/ethnicity is more important when depicting the real world, but you don't extend that line of thought far enough. Imaginary worlds and works of fiction perforce extrapolate from the real world, drawing from and playing off of the preconceptions readers bring to the genre.

Now, there are some works and settings which could be argued to have been created in a sort of racial vaccuum. Lord of the Rings comes to mind - I don't think the themes Tolkien was discussing were racially dependent. And, at the risk of veering off into another topic entirely, I generally think Tolkien pictured his characters in shades of white because the fellow's background was primarily European, both in reality and in the myths he studied. (though, veering further afield still, I thought it was cool that Aragorn was modeled after a Native American in that '70's animated version)

Anyway - none of this is written to imply ignorance on your part, Keith. Just hoping to provide food for thought.

(*drumming my fingers and wondering if I used 'perforce' correctly*)

Rob:

You are so fuckin' right, Godzilla kicks righteous ass! I'll back you up in that fight.

As to Earthsea, I think the director was merely clumsy. I don't think there was a conscious descision to exclude darker actors. There's so much intolerance and racism in the world, let's keep things in perspective.

My main complaint is that that kid's way to young. . .

-Steve E.

Rob,

The radio show you're thinking of with Jimmy Stewart was "The Six Shooter." Stewart played Britt Ponsit. He wasn't a Marshal, though. Just a guy who found himself getting involved in other people's problems. He either wandered into the situation, or people sought him out.

It was a good show, and I understand Stewart enjoyed doing it.

Rick

My ignorance may be showing...as it always does
but Faisal: I don't buy your argument. I understand your anger, but it's not enough to persuade me of your point. Maybe it's because I'm an American muddle of European and Native American genetic gazpatcho, but I don't think specific racial makeup is a significant part of the Earthsea tale. Race may be, but racial makeup isn't. Of course they made Ged white because of racial bias (probably economic...have you seen the racial makeup of science fiction conventions in the State's?)...but does it matter to the story? I don't think so.

I can see calling them out on it if you are writing a story about "the real world" and you don't want your Afgani characters protrayed by Norwegian actors, but this is a fantasy based on an entirely different planet.

There are works of fiction in which the racial makeup of the characters is so relevant that to remove it is to take away the reason for telling the story. Especially when translated to the big screen. But I don't think the Earthsea trilogy is one of them. Even THE WIZARD OF OZ was remade as THE WIZ without a problem, and you can't find someone any more white than Dorothy, unless you start in on the Osmond family.

Here are a few movies in which I think the racial makeup of characters matters:

BEND IT LIKE BECKHAM
RADIO DAYS
MOONSTRUCK
OTHELLO
ANY SPIKE LEE JOINT

To name but a few.

Did Ursula K Le Guin agree to it, I wonder?

-Keith

Doug - Rob,

Each of the actors who played Cranston/Shadow brought his or her own manner and style to the role. Frank Readick was more a supernatural "Spectre" character while Welles tried for a more eastern mystic approach. None of them really touched on the fact that Gibson's creation only used Lamont Cranston as an alias for his TRUE identity - Kent Allard, an illusionist and escape artist with some skill at hypnotism. Allard crash landed in the South American jungle and stumbled on a huge treasure that he used to finance his war on crime around the world.

So the pulp Shadow and the radio Shadow were very different. As for the contributions Welles made, there is a general opinion that Welles was this mad genius who converted everything he touched to gold. From many accounts, Welles didn't even show up for the show until just before air time and read his part cold many times. Given that he was reading several parts around town, that left very little time to contribute much to an ongoing show. However, there ARE accounts (I'm looking up now) where Welles talks about the direction he wanted to lead the character and the show, adding more eastern mysticism of the kind you saw in the Alec Baldwin film.

Even so, as Doug points out, there was a strong foundation of material in the Gibson library to draw from by 1937.

Here's something that'll piss folks off...
Michael,

I neglected to congratulate you on your recovery. I hereby rectify that and join in the celebrations of your good fortune and beating your condition.

-------

Anyone hear about the Earthsea trilogy TV show. I was searching around for news stories when I came across the website and decided to peruse through the contents. What I found really pissed me off. I checked out Ursula K. LeGuin's website and found a few restrained paragraphs from her concerning the directors, Rob Lieberman's comments concerning her books.

Producer Robert Halmi Sr. showed himself to be a bigoted oaf. He proved this by providing the following answer:

http://www.scifi.com/earthsea/bts/askrobert/072004.html#ask03

Q: One of the more interesting things Le Guin does in the Earthsea series is play with race, casting the whites as barbarian. It's mentioned in the books many times that Ged and the Gontish people are dark-skinned, and Le Guin, in several interviews, has also said this is the case. Why then make Ged blond and pale-skinned?

A: Earthsea, the miniseries, was cast completely colorblind, as any of my productions have been. We searched for the right actors for the roles and brought in diversity to the cast as a result. There was no decision to make Ged blond and pale-skinned. Shawn Ashmore is a terrific rising star and the perfect choice for the character. Most people have the image of him from X2, in which he played Iceman. Ged is a completely different look for him.

-----------------

The above comments by Mr Halmi Sr. rankles me. What an inconsiderate, racially insensitive oaf. The disingenuous way that he tries not to come across a racist by claiming "colour blindness" and then boasting that he bring "diversity" into the casting. Great to hear that diversity is now a code word for bringing white actors to play dark skinned characters roles!?!

Sorry for my vitriolic reaction but this kind of thing just pisses me off and after my own personal recent experiences, I have nothing but contempt for producers and directors who claim they support racial and cultural diversity by completely changing the ethnic mix of characters without consulting the writer at all. Liberman and Halmi Sr. have proven themselves to be card carrying members of a confederacy of imbeciles all bent on raping a writers work whilst screaming that they're protecting its virginity.

Mr Halmi should come to work in Liverpool, better yet with his comments, he could go and find employment at the UKFC New Cinema Fund. They'd love his take on diversity there.

Rant over.

FAQ

Rob - Your timeline is a little misleading. While the Shadow was still just a narrator of radio programs culled from Street & Smith’s Detective Story magazine (as much to pitch Detective Story as to narrate, first appearing in 1930), Gibson was tapped by S&S to write the magazine adventures of the character in December, 1930. The first issue dropped in January of 1931.

Welles didn't come to the character until the debut of The Shadow radio series (with the Shadow as the focus of the story, instead of a narrator) in September, 1937. By that time, Gibson (with seven assists from Ted Tinsley) had published 150 novels, effectively establishing the mythos of The Shadow as crimefighter that then informed the writers of the radio show. Hypnosis and invisibility weren’t such great stretches for the writers of the radio show to make - The Shadow evidences varying degrees of far east mystical abilities early in the pulp series; and Gibson, with his background in magic, infused it in a variety of ways (from slight-of-hand as plot events to magical apparatus used as murder weapons) throughout the first few years of the series.

While I’ve seen Bob Arthur, William Fifield, and others named as writers of the radio show (Gibson was clearly not), I haven’t read any specific citation for Welles having input of such impact on the character’s development - from all accounts I've read, he was the Shadow's voice, but not otherwise involved in the production (though in 1947 Welles DID try to get his own film version off the ground, going so far as to commission Charles Lederer to script the film, but was unable to secure the rights). Can you provide the source for your Welles info? I’d very much like to read about his association with the development aspect of the show.

Harlan: Will do. Do not worry about recompense: postage is cheap. BTW, the essay, by Pico Eyer, will also be the foreword to the upcoming reissue of the book.

Meanwhile, the _Washington Post_ notes the similarity of recent TV blockbuster shows with the work of Terry Southern-- specifically, _The Magic Christian_. Read http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A44133-2004Nov11?language=printer for more info.

I have to say something here with regards to my last post.

Um...it's like this. Sometimes, particularly in the late hours, I don't always look at the posting activity. I just, shall we say, PUT it IN - without looking at what I'm putting it INTO; the reason I always believed in doing it with the lights on! As a result, of course, the timing made me look rather bad...

Being as hypersensitive to the audio-visual as I am, I get sucked in when I hear recordings from Old Radio. It is a vastly different feeling from the filmgoing experience - and, sadly, unreachable. I'd hoped to make it to Harlan's outing on the ROBERT ARTHUR script; unfortunately, I was tied up. I feel I could have LEARNED something, dammit. I haven't had as much exposure to those things as I'd like; most comes from NPR, who'd run some shows from the 40's - including one with Jimmy Stewart as a marshall who was easy-going - soft-spoken - yet tough and effective (anyone recall the character?). Beyond that, when I was a kid I bought the recordings of Welles' War of the Worlds broadcast, and the Hindenburg explosion. Listening spun a kaleidoscope of powerful images in my mind; mesmerizing, irrepressible. But that's about as far as my exposure goes.

I would really love to hear the Shadow recordings. Particularly the season Orson Welles did. Y'know, HE was the one who introduced powers of hypnosis and invisibility to the character, because of his preoccupation with magic! (Not Walter Gibson) Before that the Shadow was just a narrator in the radio series (which leads me to wonder how Gibson did the novels; to what extent did he involve Lamont Cranston in the plots?). Later, another actor took over the Shadow's voice and would go on doing it for the next 10 years. I'd really like to hear some of those. (I can't imagine how bad the movie serials probably were). A fascinating genesis for the character that inspired Batman (as Doc Savage inspired Superman).

At any rate, I have to do something about this void.

BTW, it occurred to me recently that film and the pulps have an ambiguous relationship. Endless movies have cannibalized the pulps and often succeeded highly in the box office when doing so; yet, whenever a film tries to adapt an old pulp directly (Doc Savage, the Shadow, the Rocketeer - though I think the last book was one of the homages, not an actual pulp - etc.) it never seems to pull it off in the returns.

Mary,

Hell, you've nothing to be ashamed about. We've ALL been robbed; the radio stations don't run recordings of those old shows enough...so obviously it's been largely out of our reach. If we don't know enough about that era we can't navigate ourselves through the tapes and cds out there to know what to buy (not ALL are WORTH buying!). So, we're mostly at the mercy of the stations' whims. And since I didn't know Robert Arthur either, it's nothing to be embarrassed about (hah!)! That's what discovery is about, right? If we knew EVERYTHING we'd have no discovery in our lives. That would be one monotonous prospect. I don't think we should ever hold back from admitting when territory is new to us (it's when we make a JUDGEMENT on something we're unfamiliar with that becomes detrimental), because this is where you'll find out about it.

Now, we WOULD have been lame if we'd sat here with vacant stares at Harlan's post; if we had no notions or interest about the richness of that form. But we're knowledgeable enough and inquisitive enough to know there's something there and we're going to follow it up. And Harlan's our liaison to find it all (I ALWAYS jot down stuff he talks about here).

Thanks Chris and Kristin.
:)


Any of y'all in the LA area tonight without plans for anything special might consider a trek to the IMPROV.

My little nephew, Casey Rippy will be performing live and in person. He's a funny kid, responsible for one of the most quotable quotes from a seven year old hurled at 12 year old Cameron McPherson who had pummelled him good and proper. Casey said, " Fuck you! Fuck you you fucking fat fuck." Over the years he has refined his craft yet somehow managed to retain the gritty realism and soul of his youth. It promises to be an entertaining and enlightening experience for those in attendance.

My best friend Becky Rippy ( Casey's mama) will be there as well. If y'all recall she recently ran for the 61rst Congressional district in Colorado and lost because she wouldn't take the payola that her opponent did. Becky is my best friend since the 6th grade in Austin. We ended up marrying brothers. She got the pick of the litter. Her husband Steve is everything his brother Dow was not( and a magnum of Dom).

Soooo if any of y'all in the area want to go someplace tonight and have a front row seat on some up and coming comedy talent by all means head over there. Cheer loudly for my boy Casey, he's really a great kid and you have to give him credit for having the guts to go for his dream.

More importantly I bet you'll laugh your ass off. He's good. Casey is supposed to be there at a quarter 'til seven so I imagine it will start between seven and eight tonight.

Anybody who goes can give me the low down on what I missed.

I'll be there, virtually.

:)
Cindy

P.S. More things are breaking lose here ( in a good way). I'll let y'all know what developes.

BRIAN SIANO:

Hey, Bri...when you get done with that NYRB essay on Prokosch, would you mind mailing it to me (don't tear it out, please, send the whole page) c/o HERC? If you need address, let me know.

I'll gladly and immediately recompense you for postage and any other shipping/handling inconveniences.

Thanks in advance.

Yr. pal, Harlan

Kristin:

I used AOL's search key and the second website AOL found had a one page biography about him. www.elizabetharthur.org/bio/rarthur.html.
The website Rick recommended is even better though. A lot more detail! There's an amazing list of the short stories he wrote on a link called Mysterious Treasure. I'm gonna be there a while. There's a lot more than I realized on this site. Tell you more later!

Thanks Rick! :)

Old Time Radio; Robert Arthur
Kristin asked whether the memory of OTR will die with Harlan’s generation. My answer: No.

For one thing, radio drama existed up to 1962, so there are people in their late 40s and early 50s who would have first-hand memories of OTR.

Of course, their generation will also be gone one day. But even then, the memory of OTR won’t die, because there are a number of people, myself included, who are HUGE OTR fans, who hadn’t even been born during the age of OTR. Sure, we don’t have any memories of listening to it when it was first broadcast, but I do remember listening to a radio station playing OTR reruns on Sunday nights in the early 1980s. No, I wasn’t hearing them in the same era in which they had originally been broadcast, but I was hearing them on the radio, and used my imagination to create the scenes being described, just as people had done when that particular broadcast aired for the very first time. Today, I often listen to my tapes in my car, in lieu of my radio.

I’ve also passed my interest in OTR on to my now 18-year-old cousin, to whom I introduced the medium when she was 12; and just the other day, I bought my 2-year-old nephew the “Cinnamon Bear” for Christmas. So I'm getting him started really early.

So, there are OTR fans who weren’t around when OTR was first run, and whom will continue to keep the medium alive (to just a niche market, to be sure, but alive, nonetheless). In fact, I wrote a magazine article on the continuing appeal of old-time radio, a few years ago. The article featured interviews not only with OTR performers such as Fred Foy, Bob Hastings, Rosemary Rice, Peggy Webber, Tyler McVey, Peg Lynch and Clive Rice, but also OTR fans ranging in age from their teens to middle age.

Side note about WVXU, it’s the radio station of my alma mater, Xavier University in Cincinnati. Unfortunately, I don’t believe they played OTR when I was a student.

Cincinnati is also home of the Cincinnati OTR and Nostalgia convention every April. I recommend it for anyone interested in OTR who lives in the midwest and/or would have the time and inclination to travel there in mid April.

Regarding Robert Arthur:

In addition to his radio work (and other writings) Robert Arthur was also the creator of the excellent “Alfred Hitchcock and the Three Investigators” mystery series published from 1964 to 1987. He wrote books 1-9 and 11 in the 43-book series before his death in 1969.

Mary (and other interested parties), more information about Robert Arthur can be found at his daughter, Elizabeth’s website.

http://www.threeinvestigators.com/

This website includes a detailed biography of Arthur, as well as a list of publications that carried his stories.

Information about The Three Investigators can be found at these sites:

The Jones Salvage Yard Forum,
Http://forums.delphiforums.com/Jupe

The Three Investigators U.S. Editions collectors’ site
http://www.threeinvestigatorsbooks.com/

and the Three Investigators Readers website.
http://www.3investigators.homestead.com/

All are excellent 3I resources.

Rick

I Got Your Radio Drama Right Here, Buddy!
To all those who are jonesing for some old time radio drama (and comedy, too), please aim your web browsers to :

www.wvxu.org

They have a regular slate of old radio stuff which can be streamed on your computer between 11am-Noon and 7pm-8pm (Eastern Time) every Monday -Friday and several late evening slots on the weekends. Of particular interst to you might be The Shadow, which is on every Wendsday and X Minus 1 on Fridays. Enjoy.

I was saddend to hear about the death of Harry Lampert...I remember the day back in 1968 when I first borrowed a copy of Jules Feiffer's The Great Comic Book Heros from the public library and being enthralled with the origin story of Jay Garrick, the Original Flash. I should hope that he, Julie and Gardner Fox, Alfie Bester are having quite a reunion going on right about now.

Cindy: Keep fighting the Good Fight and keep us up to speed on your situation. The whole world may not be watching (yet) but we ever vigilant Weberlanders are and standing by...

Chris Barkley

http://www.newsday.com/entertainment/ats-ap_entertainment12nov14,0,551189.story?coll=ny-entertainment-headlines

From the Newsday report:

"BOCA RATON, Fla. -- Harry Lampert, the illustrator who created the DC Comics superhero 'The Flash' and later became known for his instructional books on bridge, died Saturday. He was 88.

Lampert, who had been suffering from cancer, died at Boca Raton Community Hospital, according to his family.

He began drawing professionally at 16, inking cartoons at Fleischer Studios in New York for characters such as Popeye, Betty Boop and KoKo the Clown."

my, we have a lot of me-too posts here!
It's depressing to think how elderly most of the people at the SPERDVAC convention must have been; will the memory of old time radio die with your generation, Harlan? Hmm. SPERDVAC seems to have a very large catlaog of recordings but you have to join first. (That the model for Herc? ) There's also quite a few available online from Radio Showcase (www.radio-showcase.com).

Fewer and fewer stations air it anymore...I don't think KNX Los Angeles (which I can pick up at night) does any more, and San Francisco's KABL-AM switched from big band to the Air America liberal talk network, because "old people aren't the right demographic."

I have a few tapes of early Orson Welles SHADOW episodes, one of which is lying in my car ("Bride of Death," and something else I think, the one with the Indian witch dealing opium..hm, I used to live in a Little India neighborhood and suddenly realized "this is kinda ethnic stereotypes." So was everything in the 1930s.)I especially like tapes where they leave in the old commercials! I got those from the lamented "Wireless " catalog that used to support Minnesota Public Radio.

Well, there are some web sites/radiocasts that stream it in RealAudio. (As an aside, LA's Hour 25 is now a web-only show too. I wonder how it got alienated from KPFK? Well JMS couldn't do it forever.)

Reading various things: Dan Simmons' ILIUM, as well as catching up with my Harlan. I just read the essay "Xenogenesis." Now I know the source of some of those word-of-mouth cautionary tales I'd been told - only people mixed them up; the onetime early Herc member abusing his privileges (and whose phone number HE tracked) got conflated with the person who sent all the unsolicited magazine subscriptions, or Book Club memberships! Could have been called "Xenophobia." Stranger=ENEMY until they (we) prove otherwise, even if it IS only five percent who are bad eggs. The curse of fame.

Cindy, don't let people who are jealous of your having Harlan's ear (and vice versa) get you down. They're just jealous. There's the Outernet (people like me I guess, but I can be humble) and the Innernet (people who've made Real Contact and EARN their passage and PAY THEIR DUES.)

Mary - what search keys/engines did you use? I'm not sure what I managed to Google was right.

Any SF Bay Areans here - ever attend movies at the Stanford Theater in Palo Alto? Lovely, restored movie palace complete with live Wurlitzer organ every evening. OK, so it's owned by a rich guy whose computer tycoon father was a famous philanthropist, and the program reflects his sometimes-snobby tastes and (I think) politics too. They had a Ronald Reagan filmfest when Reagan died - ugh! Many, many classics though.

kristin
Herc has my address for blackmail purposes....

Harlan,

Off hand, do you know who might have the rights to the Arthur radioplay? There are many people I know who might wish to present their own version?

Steve Dooner

A brief note of interest: The New York Review of Books has a nice essay about Frederic Prokosch's _The Asiatics_, which is being republished early next year.

To Harlan Ellison:

After reading your post about Robert Arthur, I was ashamed to admit I didn't know who the gentleman was. I did some more research on the web, and found his biography. I was surprised to discover that I have one of the books he helped edit, even though his name doesn't appear in it (which was odd)--Alfred Hitchcock's "Haunted Houseful." I also envy you. There are moments where I would trade all of the shows full of special effects and no story for a chance to listen to programs like those you talk about. I think I was robbed as a kid. Heck--I know I was!

I also look forward to the CD and learning more about Robert Arthur.

Harlan,
I am DELIGHTED, but not the least bit surprised at the success of your enterprise. I knew you'd kick ass. What a fantastic and beautiful undertaking.

I want to be on the list when the CD's are released.

yer pal,
Cindy

Damn...
I can't imagine the thrill you had sharing the stage with those greats and reinventing history. Just...fucking wow.

Sir, I was in love with the Golden Age of Radio long before I was aware of your passion for it and before I heard you speak of it on "Sci-Fi Buzz" so many years ago. But every time I get frustrated with trying to rekindle something in the medium, you come along and remind me just how vital and fresh it is.

I want a copy, too.

HARLAN: I second Mr. Winfield. Please keep us posted on the future release date.

And I'm glad to hear the performance went so well. At the community college where I teach, some of my collegues organize a yearly Radio Classics show. It's a big hit and a lotta fun, but it's also a helluva lotta worry & work. I'm happy your show came together as you hoped it would.

Mark W.

HARLAN,

For heaven's sake, please...PLEASE let me know when the SPERDVAC tape/CD of FIVE MILES DOWN will be available. If I could purchase it through the Webderland, all the better.

Don't be thinkin' this me drunkin' blatherins'...be it the wormwood or the ale...but I've been TROO-bled by this thing for many a night now, me crown gyratin' in the pillow like a kinked rogue bobblehead! Three stinkin' nights o' insomnia...by me great aunt's unspeakable acts I MOOST get this off me chest!

Outside o' THEM, the original 1954 GODZILLA is the best goddamn giant monster movie o' that era! A kal-ASSIC! 'Tis a fookin' FACT! A 3-star outing 'tis!

Anyone who cares to argue this kin step outside! We'll have us a fine rammy efter ra gemm!

Curtain closes. Geek gets dragged away.

Thank you for your kind attention.

Good night, and bless the beasts and the children.

THE DREAM GIVEN EXQUISITE FORM
Just drove back from the SPERDVAC annual banquet and radio broadcaast recreation conference at the Hacienda Hotel, where stars of the golden age of radio, and several close friends of great speaking talent joined me to reproduce a radioplay by the great fantasist, the late ROBERT ARTHUR. "FIVE MILES DOWN." Lost, unheard for 58 years, this episode, #90 of the old Mutual Radio System's THE MYSTERIOUS TRAVELER is one of those mythic icons...the great radio fantasy that a few oldsters rememeber, but that no one can actually rememmber hearing. Well, I heard it, and it altered my life; don't ask how many of my stories have contained remembered scenes from that broadcast, heard when I was seven years' old; don't even attempt to guage the depth of excitement caroming though me right now! We worked from the original 1947 scripts, with Stravinski music, and a full sound effects "Foley" table, and music cues/stings from the original Mysterious Traveler Show.

We did it. The great radio voice of Jan Merlin. Tommy Cook, a living legend, who worked with Welles, and Arch Oboler, and every star you can think of. Walter Koenig, my friend, a director and multifarious acting talent far beyond Star Trek.
Frank Thomas--do you remember him from 'Tom Corbett, Space Cadet" The mellifluous sonorities of Stefan Rudnicki. And in the role of Professor Doyle, yours truly. Bringing back to life a childhoood memory untapped for more than a half century.

It was a triumph, I am told. Large ballroom filled with very old, very watchful men and woman whose icy eyes said they would brook nothing less than a professional Golden Age of Rado quality re-recreation. It was a triumph, I am told.

But now, tired. Oh so very tired. Nervous about doing this right since May, getting more and more agita, till tonight and, well, a triumph.

It was a dream come true. After 58 years I brought back Bob Arthur's chilling tale, done flawlessly.

I wish you could have been there. And if any of you were, please post your response to the live presentation.

And for those who will ask, yes, I bedlieve SPERDVAC will be making tapes / CDs available.

You shoulda been there!!! Boy, it was IM-perial!


Wearily, but happhappy, Yr. pal, Hsrlan

virgins, fundamentalists and so on
DTS: I hadn't heard the term 'renewed virgins' but I had heard of "secondary virginity" as a term used by the Christian right: young people who are not physical virgins (ie have had sex before), pledging to abstain until they marry, often as part of a born-again or Christian conversion experience.

CWA is a group founded by Phyllis Schlafly - you know, the militant housewife? It started out championing stay-at-home mothers and blaming the feminist movement for denigrating the value of full-time parenting (as well as leading down a slippery slope to every evil in America). do a search, or look it up somewhere.

These people are very annoying.

That aside, try Googling "hymen restoration." People actually have surgery to have their, er, so-called "virginity" (proof of virginity?) fixed! So they can bleed on their wedding night.

I'd rather be in New Zealand too. :) Your dollar goes further there- just under 70 cents American will buy you a New Zealand dollar. I found a nice source of woollen sweaters (many of them blended with possum fur! Believe it or not, brush-tailed possums (NOT the kind that live in North America) are an introduced pest in NZ and it is considered eco-correct to wear sweaters and scarves made from their fur. Weird.) try

www.thewoolcompany.com

It's a knit-wear store in Utuku(?) I found while window-shopping the planet in search of washable wool, of all things - they do worldwide mail order and if you're in the US you don't have to pay NZ goods&services tax which is included in the price, so you often come out ahead even with the airshipping cost. Clothes, knitting yarn, other stuff (Ewg, personal care products made from ewes' placentas...well that's my American thing, people here like vegan cosmetics)..american women should size up, its based on British ladies sizes i think.

On a very sad note Bay Area journalist and activist Iris Chang, author of THE RAPE OF NANKING, committed suicide on Tuesday - she had suffered a sudden breakdown, spent some time in a mental hospital and was battling severe clinical depression, according to her family...jeez what a horrible thing, a once-eager and active person going mad, could happen to anyone if your brain chemicals get screwed enough, who knows. (Only those closest to her had known about it; this sort of thing carries a terrible stigma, but I know it isn't a question of so called free will but that's another issue.) Anyway she was a brave lady who fought to get the Japanese government to apologize for war crimes in China. It's a tragic loss. Some say she felt others' pain and it was too much for her. Not everyone is strong or can be that strong all the time. I feel sorry for her husband, and her two year old kid - who had been sent to live with grandma since apparently she was too crazy to look after him; now Mommy is gone.

Why do the good die young?

kristin
my dad said radio reports of the rape of Nanking traumatized him when he was a child - that's his clearest memory of the 30s!

Zogby had a poll trying to understand what was meant by this moral values vote. The majority of people who responded said that it was greed that was the greatest moral problem in America. So the truth comes out. We were more right then we thought. Bush just suckered them into thinking that he was everyman. Kerry's rich wife must have turned them off.

Hope for us all.

Seven Who Fled, and New Zealand
Neal, you had said you'd send it to me. Write me, and we can work out the details.

And Elijah: Go walking in the hills around Wellington; it is the sort of place hikers want to go when they die.

The Seven Who Fled


OK OK I owe someone this extra copy. To whom did I promise it? I am lax, slow and sluggish. But the book is now wrapped and I merely await your name. puh-LEASE refresh my non-existent memory. I couldn't find your name in the archives, whomever you is...

hi Cindy.

Respectfully,

Neal

ELIJAH:

I've spent some small amount of time in New Zealand, and you are confronted by a surfeit of riches. There is NO PLACE on New Zealand that isn't exquisite! Start in Wellington, and go to the rain forest and Christchurch and the upper coast and...

I envy you. Make it a loooooooooong stayover.

When Th'Shrub won, I told Susan to pack: "We're moving to New Zealand."

Yr. envious pal, Harlan

Renewed Virgin
What's a renewed virgin? That makes it sound even more like some smokescreen tactic to get people to wonder why this guy is so controversial and show up in droves to see the picture.

James

Renewed Virgins?
DTS, about those "renewed virgins"...

Is that a maraschino cherry, or one right off the tree?

Sorry, couldn't resist.

Stacy: As a former naval serviceman, you have my sincere sympathies at the loss of your cousin. A hearty salute to his efforts, for himself and all of us.

He has my gratitude as well.

Micheal

Conservatism
Dorman:

Maybe it's just me, but I have a hard time taking seriously any group called "Concerned Women for America" whose spokesperson is named "Robert Knight." This protesting of Kinsey smacks of the kind of media-whoring the Fred Phelpses of the country are famous for.

---Peter

hm.
Inspired by Benjamin's post, I have to toss in the following observation about the distinct nature of Harlan's style. I read a goodly portion of "Repent, Harlequin" aloud the other night and it occurred to me that it's next to impossible to read it in a monotone. I was amazed and a bit baffled. It's so weird. I don't know if it's the pacing, the words used, the cadence of the narration - but it leaps. One's voice is forced up and down, the speed shifts and volume changes. It's mercurial, it refuses to be pinned down, to fall into any sort of storytelling lilt.

I don't think this was my own enthusiasm coming through. "Repent" is a favorite of mine, but I was pretty exhausted when I started reading and (to be honest) chose Ellison because I figured if I read it in a bone weary blah-blah-blah voice that the words would still make it interesting. But the story wasn't having it, folks.

It seems strange to openly tout and praise such an accomplished writer, even in a forum which ostensibly exists for just this purpose. As the kids would say approvingly, Ellison knows he's the shit. He doesn't need to hear it from us. But still... how do you do it, Harlan? Wicked slick, sir. I might be quiet and reading other things, but you've still got my awed attention.


On another, completely seperate note: Does anyone here have experience in New Zealand? My wife and I are honeymooning there in January, and I'd welcome any anecdotes, recommendations, or cautions from people with first-hand experience. Feel free to email whatever you have to say to the email address above, as this isn't really germaine to this board.

Whatever happened to Harlan's review of Jonathan Strange And Mr. Norrell? Did anyone see it, and is it searchable on the newspaper's website?

Picked up the book the other day at Costco, though I had no plans on purchasing it until paperback. Can't beat that Costco price.

-TODD

It's strange, you know. After a crash course in D.H. Lawrence and E.M. Forster, Harlan's darkest stories seems full of light and hope in comparison. Hell, even at its most bleak, Harlan's work THROBS with a distinctive lifeforce of its own. Reading Harlan is like riding a bull. Reading Forster and Lawrence (WOMEN IN LOVE in particular) is like watching chickens eating their own dead.

That's my personal impression of reading these authors, anyway...

Neoconservatisim and the "new" face of America
ALL: I found summation of news reports on a website devoted to movies (www.imdb.com) No author was given: Religious conservatives and family-values groups are planning to wage a battle against Fox Searchlight's Kinsey, about the pioneering sex researcher, when the movie opens in limited release on Friday. In a statement on Wednesday, Robert Knight of Concerned Women for America charged that the movie "lionized" a man whose "proper place is with Nazi Dr. Josef Mengele or your average Hollywood horror flick mad scientist." Knight went on to assert that Kinsey "was the godfather of the homosexual activist movement, the campaign to mainstream pornography, and even the campaign to strike down abortion laws." The youth group Generation Life, composed of "virgins and renewed virgins," announced that it would picket theaters showing the film. And the conservative WorldNetDaily.com has taken aim at the movie in the current issue of its monthly magazine Whistleblower, in which it charges that Kinsey transformed America "in five decades from the Leave It to Beaver innocence of the 1950s to today's wanton, 'anything-goes' sexual anarchy."

Those of you who were surprised by the outcome of the recent election haven't been paying attention to the tenor of the "regular folk" since the Reagan administration helped Neoconservatives and Bible thumpers gain political power in the '80s. When I came back from Europe -- after living there only 4 years -- even people in Massachussetts (one of those "blue states") seemed terribly conservative and uptight to me. And having spent the last 15 years in the "heartland" (where there are no less than 4 different churches within one mile of my home), I've been watching with disbelief as fellow countrymen and women have willfully marched backward toward the sort of ignorance and intolerance that permeated our country in the 50s.

I still think Harlan should update the line in his "Vic & Blood" book (where the Vic is reciting past Presidents) to read "Bush, Bush, Bush, Bush," cause I wont be surprised if big brother takes a run at the office in four years; or "Bush, Bush, McCain, McCain." (I used to admire Sen. McCain -- but after he gleefully shilled for the current administration -- even though they lied about him -- he lost all respect in my eyes).

What the heck: on the brighter side, Jerry Mathers might find work in some "Leave it to Beaver" remakes.

Yrs. in optimism,
DTS

Kristin: One of my favourite observations about dystopias in general or specific came from my father when we were talking about Margaret Atwood's The Handmaid's Tale. He said, "I never thought of that as science fiction -- that was about how women were viewed during the time I grew up in (the 30s, 40s and 50s) as much as it was anything else."

We could have fun debating the differences between dystopias and science fiction with dystopic elements all the live-long day. Instead, I'll give you this, which I thought of and then learned Andre Gide had already pointed out the same point in much better prose and analysis. 1984 has an appendix about Newspeak. Look at the curious way that appendix is written, as if it were being written...

Naw, just re-read it again when you have the chance. Atwood does a much more blatant version of Orwell's backdoor subtlety in Handmaid's Tale; looking backward, I wonder whether Forster's "The Machine Stops" informed what Orwell does with 1984, in a different yet similar way. There's hope in more than just the proles in 1984.

Take care, Jon

OK....
Jan: I meant no insult. I was talking about long-ago posts that would embarass me if they were mine, and besides, most of those people were TROLLS which is what I should have called them. Present company, especially veteran posters, aren't trolls (a real troll is a coward who slinks away when people start getting mad...) I used to be as rabid a Whovian as some people are Trekkies, I guess (I obsessively collected autographed photos, went to every con with a British TV fantasy guest, and still have the 21ft Tom Baker scarf my grandmother knitted me. And it was from his media work that I first heard of Harlan too (not until quite recently did I discover him as a writer and just now I am discovering the LARGER body of his work).

Micheal: I agree with you about "City." It must be like, say, a homeopathic medicine. You can dilute it until a chemist tells you there's not a single molecule of "active" prinicple left and it still seems to work, as if by some kind of sympathetic magic. I do like and respect BOTH the aired show and the original teleplay. I can respect that Harlan can't bear to watch it (although I did laugh at that "Chinese mechanical rice picker" joke and thought it was the funniest line in all of Trek. Now I guess I have to feel like a shit for laughing since the humor came at the expense of Harlan's serious plot angles.)

Steve D: Yes, I have read "Politics and the English Language." It was required in school and I know I've read it once or twice since. Some of Orwell's 1984 visions may have "come true" in a symbolic way but not as literally as some people seem to think. Ultra-leftists say we are literally living in Orwell's world. The right wing, on the other hand, thinks Orwell was one of them! (He wasn't - If I Remember Correctly (IIRC) Orwell was a socialist, not a conservative, and saw Soviet Communism/totalitarianism as a perversion of socialism.) Do you think dystopias are pure realism, or valuable to the extent they do not come true (Michael Moore has not been brainwashed.)??? If you warn of danger, people might actually listen (think Y2K; an awful lot was spent on fixing that problem, so the sky didn't fall.)

Every living author, I suspect, wants and needs to believe his work is still "relevant," but shouldn't a good dystopian want to be put out of business? Proved wrong?

Ray Bradbury's FAHRENHEIT 451 is becoming, I dunno, retro-chic or something because of Michael Moore - a whole nother generation discovered it due to the film "Fahrenheit 9/11."

Happy Veterans Day, happy anniversary of Voyager One's Saturn flyby, (next year will make it a quarter century) , happy whatever. Remembering the gone but not forgotten.

My best wishes to the Ellisons for an enjoyable weekend - I hope HE has fun doing that old time radio thing. Is it just tomorrow night, or do they get put up free for the entire weekend as VIPs?

kristin
Now reading: "The New York Review of Bird" in the (public library) copy of STRANGE WINE - funny! (amid dark creepy tales.)

Mike Jacka:

I am turning several shades of green, varying from the emerald kind to the bluish-greenish shade. Any reports of highlights from said recording will be much appreciated.

To the other Mike:

As soon as I am in possesion of funds, I will go forth and get the "Freaks" DVD. Yes, it is creepy, but I really like it.

Am now on my way to read "A Boy and His Dog." I will try to keep the movie images out of my head whilst reading it--I wasn't a big fan of the movie version. Maybe it was just me, but it didn't do a thing for me. (Could have something to do with the fact that I can't stand Don Johnson, but that's just one's person's opinion.)

Ryan: You are still a member. Have sent out a replacement Rabbit Hole 36.

All best--Susan

In Flanders Fields

In Flanders fields the poppies blow
Between the crosses, row on row,
That mark our place; and in the sky
The larks, still bravely singing, fly
Scarce heard amid the guns below.

We are the Dead. Short days ago
We lived, felt dawn, saw sunset glow,
Loved, and were loved, and now we lie
In Flanders Fields.

Take up our quarrel with the foe:
To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
If ye break faith with us who die
We shall not sleep, though poppies grow
In Flanders fields.

- John McCrae, 1915


For Private Nathan Smith, beloved cousin and dearest friend, killed in Afghanistan in 2002. I miss you.

Sure....Mom Always Liked Eric best!

More a gentle poke in the ribs, Eric. I'm not a big manufacturer or consumer of vitriol: too many tariffs and excise taxes to bring in the product.

Mary:

"Freaks" is one of those curiosities I've loved, just a neat little flick truly out of step with its film brethren of that period of time. It's a pity they couldn't get prints of all the alternate endings in order to show Browning's original vision. There was one which, if it had been available, would've made for a far more satisfying and chilling climax. I'm not wanting to spoil things, once you rent or buy the DVD you'll see what I mean.

As for "City On The Edge...", I'm one of those who liked it, as badly disfigured as it came to be. Long before I'd ever gotten to see the original screenplay, I'd had numerous problems with the episode's internal logic (As a former seaman, the idea of McCoy carelessly flipping around a dangerous surgical implement during an occurence of the outer space equivalent to heavy seas drove me right 'round the bend), resolved when I found that most of my concerns were within the rewrites rather than the original.

I guess the show is saved by the fact that Roddenberry couldn't tear the heart out of the episode with his meandering crap about Ellison wrecking the budget or the repeated prevarications about "Scotty does drugs!!!"; the love story between Keeler and Kirk that ends with great poignancy. The base that HE stood the show upon was so well constructed, logical and human that no-one could strike at it without making the program an incomprehensible mess. The frustration comes in the awareness that, if Roddenberry had decided to rely on reason, the episode would've been even greater.

A glass raised to Beckwith and Trooper. Gone, but not forgotten.

A bit of addition:

Remembrance Day: Please take a moment to remember those who've fallen, and those who remain. A hope that their experience will one day be learned from, a tear for the fact that the lessons of war haven't truly set in yet.

Micheal

Kristin wrote: "the pathetic crap people used to put up, nut letters from psychos, goggle-eyed Trekkies asking about That TV Episode, bootlickers...."

Ho-hum, is this the way a sensible person talks? I have to take sides with Trekkies here and without intending to turn this into an argument I must strongly object to this kind of categorizing and language, since it's human beings you're talking about, however undeserving of your approval in paticular instances. Any kind of post here is a demonstration of Harlan's impact, and a certain amont of "bootlicking" is to be expected if a message board of this kind is put up, focusing on an individual artist. With regard to Trekkies, many fans have graduated from "City on the Edge" to Harlan's other works and should be welcome here, whatever problems they may have with their eyes.

Regards, Jan

Envy me - I am sitting at work (early - no one here) listening to On the Road Volume Two.

Mike

For Cindy & Jay Smith
Thank You.

KRISTEN A. RUHL: I thought your question about the accuracy of dystopian literature was a bit odd. You give the impression that Orwell was trying to predict the future, but Orwell's 1984 was not so much an imagining of a dystopian future as it was a depiction of the existing 1948 Stalinist, Soviet state. Orwell creates the fictional Oceania to bring home the reality of totalitarianism for the safe and comfortable Britishers of that time, and he is merely saying what that great visionary, Bob Clampett, once said: "It Can Happen Here!"

Is it right to use Orwell to critique the "non-Totalitarian" system we have right now? My answer is, "Absolutely!" That's what Orwell did. Read "Politics and The English Language" and you'll see that Orwell's definitive statement on Newspeak was not written about the evils of Soviet propaganda but about real trends occurring in the English Language of his country. In that essay, all of Orwell's examples of sloppy thinking, political rhetoric and meaningless euphemism are drawn from the British media, not from Soviet "Pravda."

Western media deception has only gotten worse since Orwell's time, why, when Bush gives us such unprecedented cause, should we STOP applying Orwell now?

When Big Brother says, "War is Peace," and George Bush says, "We're winning the Peace," I am puzzled why people would refuse to apply Orwell to such statements.

On Todd Browning's Freaks: I too am uncomfortable watching this movie, but since I know Browning was friends with the carnie folk he used and because it's obvious that the movie's final scene seems to lash out against those who exploit these people, I think it's safe to say that the intent of the film was not to exploit. The scenes which showed the human torso and the micro-encephalic pinheads still disturb me precisely because I know that this not a trick of make-up or special effects--that it is real life. All of the movie's "freaks," so objectified by their society, are humanized by the end of Browning's film.

EVERYONE: I just received "On the Road with Ellison" Volume II and was alternately in stitches from and in awe of raconteur Ellison.

Now, now, people.

Several hundred threads exist in the Eric Martin section of the other Harlan Ellison board (which is now known as The Eric Martin Musical Comedy Hour Board featuring Harlan Ellison and the Poster Formerly Known as Little Washu) to serve all your Eric Martin needs.

Also, I don't think he's lonely, but even if he was, I would have no idea because I can't make the leap to Eric's personal life from any of his devil's advocate posts. I think he's 41, in education and in the Chicago area and I'm pretty sure he's male. He has also previously appeared in the role of Ghost of Gene Roddenberry, which is simply Eric when he's had too many gin-and-tonics at the Playboy Mansion. I think.

Yours in peace, Jon

Hello.
Hey, I'm pretty new here, and yeah, maybe HE's watching, or maybe not since I've never seen an ethernet port on a manual typewriter, and isn't an Author's time better spent writing pay copy? Anyway, I don't see why we can't have intelligent discussions with *each other*, and I don't see why we shouldn't hold each other to a certain level of intellectual rigor. Anyway, people who "fight the system" have my respect too; whether it's Hollywood or a small town - that's just a matter of degree and the circumstances where one finds oneself.

OK so it's not just the Ask-Harlan page. (And I made a point of going through the archive..yeesh, the pathetic crap people used to put up, nut letters from psychos, goggle-eyed Trekkies asking about That TV Episode, bootlickers....all saved for posterity!)

Thanks for those who mentioned the film Freaks. I shudder ... there are some things NOT to be nostalgic over, like people not thinking it was *wrong* to gawk at deformed people and loose their inner sicko voyeur. Some things do belong in the dustbin of history. I think the way one should watch a movie like that now is probably *not* the way in which its makers intended. Did you ever see "The Elephant Man?" Now THERE is a true story about a 'freak' who found someone to treat him compassionately....in the nineteenth century. We talk about sensitivity and being PC but there were at least a few humane persons in the world even then.

I got my order of books today...arrived in four days. how do I know? from the books inscribed with the date - the 6th. (Thanks Harlan and Susan if yhou ARE reading this.) I also got, out of the blue almost, a free advance copy of a two-CD set from a radio station that plays so called adult-album-alternative rock, which will cost $19 when it comes out, 100 percent charity benefit and collectors items - "KFOG Live from the Archives" Wow. A computer random number generator picked me at random off their mailing list which I'd forgotten I was on and gave me a birthday present.

Wow.

And how do I go about explaining to my parents that no, all I did to get this cool stuff was send money? I know you less than some people here. I can only say this in public in front of everyone, but if you are reading, many thanks Harlan for remembering to send that extra copy of Written By with that cover-boy picture. Nice spread with color photos - the interview itself doesn't say much we don't already know. The rest of the issue is about Democon, Republicon, "we are living in Orwell" (debatable) and Ray Bradbury, so I think it's worth getting hold of, but the rest of you might have to find somebody else to pester about it. What did I do to deserve it? I'm sure there's plenty floating around L.A. And the November ish too -that correction is hilarious. I never saw anybody misspell "chamois" as "shammy" (phonetically) before. I guess nobody washes their own car now.

rolling around laughing at the thought of this guy and girl interviewers (and I bet Harlan's old enough to be their dad (My own mother was born in 1935, my father in 1933 so I can understand...) walking up to Harlan and they've heard every wacky urban legend and half think they're going to get eaten or something. Of course HE's perfectly nice to them. What happens when *you* get to be called "living legend?" (Schwarz is, sadly, a dead legend now. As are too many others. '(.......)

OK, let's discuss: How right WERE all those dystopian novels? THe November Written By letter column has a letter from somebody (conservative ovbviously) who was offended by the article about Orwell and the current political climate. You don't have to have read the article to catch my drift - this is for anyone who HAS read the dystopian novels of Orwell and Bradbury.

Well, I detest Bush too but he did have a point: Michael Moore is a lot better off than Orwell's Winston Smith, who got tortured with the rats and brainwashed whereas people who Protest Authority now get honored and hero-worshipped for it! Of course, there are parallels between the nonstop wars in NINETEEN EIGHTY FOUR and the war with Iraq, between Bin Laden and the Two Minutes Hate, and beween the nightmare surveillance state and the Patriot Act. I don't think the world we live in right now is *quite* so bad as Orwell portrayed it. At least, not yet. We still need our warnings, and dystopian novels ARE very topical right now.

Kristin
seeking reasons for hope amid the anti-intellectual dark age being promoted by the Bush Agenda....high school science teachers, dare to teach evolution please!

SUSAN: I saw the post about the newest Rabbit Hole and, since I haven't seen it yet, wanted to check if my subscription was still active.

Thanks.

Michael: You ROCK! I love "Freaks"! I have it on video! Thanks for the heads up on the DVD version--and thank goodness I get paid next week.
One more thing: I wish I had this website when my mother was fighting the system. Some years ago, she was power of attorney for a man who was gay and dying of AIDS. At one point, the insurance company told her that due to who he was and what he was dying of, money for his care would be, well, just a bit difficult to come by (and that's being nice--the nasty version makes my blood boil, and brings up a lot of hurt.) She put up the good fight and then some--she kicks butt when she has to! It would have been nice to have all of this feedback though when she was going insane with the stupidity she and my family had to contend with. All of you guys are terrific. In the midst of all this crap, you're all a breath of fresh air.

Lee, outstanding. I liked it! I wouldn't attack someone's sex parts to score points, but for a first draft it has a lot of promise. Maybe you can option it out to the fine arts people in the UK, who will change our characters beyond recognition just to get laid at Cannes...

Snidely through the Saran wrap, Eric

An Interview With Eric Martin

An Interview With Eric Martin

Eric: Careful, now. You can’t tell anything about a person by what they post on the internet.

Lee: You hurt Cindy’s feelings a few weeks ago.

Eric: Cindy hurt Cindy’s feelings. I was just calling it the way I see it. She needs to learn more about what a sherrif’s life is like in a small Texas town. Anyway, she thinks I’m charming so piss off.

Lee: Why are you so negative?

Eric: I’m just intelligent and honest. It’s not my problem that you see simple descriptions of truth as out-of-the-box. You’re the one in the box, not me. You see me as snide, dismissive, confrontational, obnoxious, contemptuous, inflammatory, or critical. Wake up and read between the lines. The world’s not what you think it is, and neither am I.

Lee: So, you’re the one with the x-ray vision. The rest of us can’t see through Saran Wrap.

Eric: Sorry to shrivel your tiny member, but in your case that’s a decent analogy. This post sucks. It’s a pathetic attempt to grab a little attention at someone else’s expense. Look at yourself. Straining every chance you get to make reference to your life as a dancer, as if a handful of unconfirmed personal anecdotes are going to buy you some kind of kinship with a gaggle of elitist liberal arts geeks posturing on an author’s forum. At least you have the grace to admit you’re a has been.

Lee: But ... that’s not what I’m … not what we’re ….

Eric: You’ve never said anything I couldn’t say better with ten minutes of data gathering on an internet search engine.

Lee: I’m so confused.

Eric: I’m not surprised.

Susan,

Just wanted to compliment you on the Rabbit Hole #36. Once again, enteraining and informative. I especially enjoyed the less that five degrees of separation from Kevin Bacon. Also, thanks for the address correction. You're quite a lady, Mrs. Lady.

I do try not to be a doryphore. Honest.

Chuck

Not Reading isn't the Same as Sloppy

Harlan,

My apologies. I haven't actually had a chance to read the latest "Rabbit Hole" as yet, so hadn't seen the date of the talk.

I've spent the past two weeks of my life determining that the pain in my chest and numbness in my left arm was caused by a strange combination of pulled muscle and pinched nerve and not a heart attack. And I've spent it learning that the even though the EKG that the EMS guys ran on me reported an "Infarct probably old," it was probably because they hadn't attached one of the leads quite correctly so it exaggerated the Q-Wave dip in my normal EKG patter.

So, to reinforce the matter and allay all worries; yes while I did feel some chest pains and numbness of the arm, it wasn't a heart attack. A subsequent EKG, blood enzyme test, and Stress Echo test all confirmed this. And the EKG showing an old infarct was a misread caused by improperly attached leads, which exaggerated a perfectly normal Q-Wave dip. All the subsequent and aforementioned tests run on me have been negative and shown no abnormalities in my heart. So, thank Crom, all is right with me.

But it does all mean, I'm a little behind on somethings, such as reading "Rabbit Hole." Sorry.

Anyway, that means the date is March 1st, correct?

Bob

HARLAN ELLISON SIGNING -- LOS ANGELES
HARLAN ELLISON'S FIRST LOS ANGELES BOOK SIGNING IN TWO YEARS.

HE will be signing STRANGE WINE at:

DUTTON'S BOOKS--5146 Laurel Canyon Blvd., North Hollywood, CA 91607. Telephone (818) 769-3866.

On: Saturday, December 11th

From: 3:00pm--6:00pm


Note: If you cannot attend the signing, the store will provide direct mail. To pre-order your book, just call and give them your name, address and credit card number...AND to whom you would like the book personalized. Think Xmas, Hanukkah, and Kwanzza presents!

REPLY TO ROBERT INGERSOLL, ESQ.

If it please the court:

Deponenet avers that Defense Exhibit 01, placed in record more than fourteen days ago, to whit, RABBIT HOLE #36, explicates in full all date, time, particulars of Plaintiff's query. Would my friend, the learned counsel, like the Court Stenographer to read it back to him?

Further, deponent sayeth not, you sloppy reading barrister you.

Susan: It's _Larchwood Ave._ Sorry for the confusion.

And for the triple-posting.

Brian
I've emailed you alternate addresses. My web site was down pending some changes at the host and I didn't realize that my zebrapix.com emails would be effected. I won't print them here, obviously, but they are on the way. I'm working out of the office today. I should have just given you a phone number, huh? :)

Oh and Lynn E. - Good luck and thanks for thinking of the kids.

Brian--you are registered as a HERC member (on Larchmont). Will send out a replacement copy today.

...Susan

Sorry for the double post, but this is important. Jay Smith, PLEASE email me at siano@mail.med.upenn.edu. It's about Philcon. They're telling me your email at zebrapix isn't working.

Gooble Gobble...One of Us!

First, again, thanks. I'm humbled at the expressions of concern of so many toward me, a stranger in the midst.

John Heatter: The scene where his son selfishly chides Ikiru for have spent his money is one of the most heartrending and infuriating I've ever seen. To come to family for solace and be treated that way; I was never more impressed with Kurosawa for his work. I've got to add to your comment to suggest buying the Criterion edition.

That, and I must also urge purchase of "Freaks" by Tod Browning. Granted, it showcases all the drawbacks of cinema in the early thirties; hammy overacting, poor editing techniques, screenwriting which at times is chunky and laboured, all the faults of film as it tried to shuck off the worse habits enacted by movie making's transition from silence to sound. The showcase are the freaks, drawn from sideshows across the U.S.. The last ten minutes are still quite chilling in the slow creep of the disfigured move toward revenge for one of their own, hunting down the normals as they flee in the rain and mud.

The DVD is a good solid remaster, the restored print is excellent with the soundtrack only losing its way in spots. One of the best additions is a documentary about the cast, emphasisng the side show performers. Well worth watching.

Micheal

Coupla short things
First of all, to Susan Ellison: Am I on the list for the Rabbit Hole? I think I bought a subscription at the Forbidden Planet signing, but I haven't received the latest issue yet. Should I give the postal service another week or so?

Second: About a year or so ago, when Faisal was in the States, a bunch of us met up in NYC. Since I knew Faisal through the Kubrick group, Alex and I met him in the company of other Kubrick-group users.

I'm happy to report that Bilge Ebiri, a wonderful guy among our Kubrick crew, got a good review in the New York Times for his new film, "The New Guy." The review can be read at http://movies2.nytimes.com/2004/11/10/movies/10guy.html.

Can't wait until it hits Philly.

Lynn E.
Pay no attention to the dung flinging monkey in cage number 3. The frustration he exhibits could stem from the cage he inhabits. His tiny fistfuls of poo, while well aimed, are relatively harmless. Your pity would not be misplaced.

I believe you and encourage you to keep fighting.

Cindy



Thank you Douglas and Chuck,

No Ming yet. The paper comes out tomorrow with my LOST ad. With any luck at all she could be home by tomorrow night. I'm praying for that. I don't know how parents whose children disappear survive at all.

Cindy



Ah,
Harlan with a full cast, sound effects and music, doing a live in-front-of-the-mike recreation from an original script at the Sperdvac golden age radio convention.

It is entertainment beyond anything I can imagine.

I envy all of y'all who will be there. Please return with stories and accounts of the evening so I can live vicariously.
:)
Cindy

P.S. I pray for a recording to be available at a later date... for a nominal fee of course.

I wasn't trying to get everyone involved in my personal life or garner mindless support. The first post was born out of a combination of the very late hour, and high emotions. It just burst out. The fact is I do not take irrational acts and I am not acting alone. I have legal counsel and am doing nothing without their advice. Many have come forward without any knowledge of what I was doing. After a very long, very nasty day the children were placed with their grandmother until things are thoroughly investigated by the appropriate authorities. I think everyone will agree the safety of the kids is not to be gambled with. I truly do thank everyone for their advice and concern, but i do apologize for dragging this board into the matter. As far as I am concerned, I will say no more here unless directly asked.

hi folks
Dave: At your service. I always was a frustrated librarian.

Lynn E: keep checking in here please! We need to know you're keeping up the fight...don't let this horrible person do any more harm to you&yours. It beats the heck out of people like me who check in here not having anything better to do. (Well, I wait till just before bedtime.)

Susan: Thanks. You're sweet (especially to someone who did such an incredibly stupid thing as to mail the order form and leave the check in the checkbook. My face still turns funny colors when I think of it.)

and Deep Shag got my correct ship-to addy confirmed :) and I just went to the library& returned half a dozen Ellison and Sturgeon and Poul Anderson books along with $20 i owed in overdue fines...checked out novels by Charles de Lint and Dan Simmons as well as ELLISON WONDERLAND (the '84 Bluejay edition) and STRANGE WINE (browsing the story intros it's depressing to think the original Change of Hobbit bookstore is gone now and it's probably been long enough the phone company reassigned their number to some poor sucker who gets weird calls, but it's on the printed page so it must be right huh?) Hmmm.. is the percentage of the population that purchases books still in the single digits? I am actually reading more than ever now that I have so little money I've een forced to rediscover the public library. (Already devoured the first three stories in ELLISON WONDERLAND. Out of print is no excuse, kiddies. The Sunnyvale, California, public library has nineteen Ellison titles under "science fiction' (sigh) and I think HARLAN ELLISON'S WATCHING in their film-criticism section. your mileage may vary, but I think a lot of books were out of print when I first read them.

kristin

CWRU Date

Harlan or Susan,

What's the date that Harlan's coming to talk at CWRU? I think I read somewhere it's early in the month; like the 1st. But the end of February is also MegaCon in Orlando, which ends on February 28. So I'm trying to figure out if I should hit Islands of Adventure before or after the con. If the talk is later in the month, I'll stick in Orlando for a day or so after the con. But if it's on the 1st, I try for before the con and come home early on the 1st so I can catch the talk.

Bob Ingersoll

Odds & ends


Did I just read someone use "shit a dog" as exclamation? Wow. I need a beer after that.

And MICHAEL! Don't know you, pal, but I have known lots of folks with cancer and even lost a few of them. All the best to you! Makes me think of Akira Kurosawa's film IKIRU. If you get the chance, see it. Everyone.

TO LYNN E.

It's a tough and usually slow fight but keep it up. (And again with the quotes!) Since childhood this quote has been burned in my mind and I strive to live by it.

"Be ashamed to die until you have won some victory for humanity."
- Horace Mann

Though I heard it first by way of Rod Serling in "Changing of the guard." As many of you have.

Oh, and CINDY. Politically, I'm an ass. I make no bones about it. But through it all we love you and are always pullin' for you. Keep it up.

ALSO, HARLAN.

You suck. You take my money. I want you to call your bathroom "the John Heatter wing." Or at least name a toothbrush after me. Thanks for everything (since thanksgiving IS coming) were it not for you, I would have never gotten to know these wonderful people.

Don't really know y'all, but love ya!

Johnny H.

Kristin,

Thanks for the tip on the papers in regards to the persecution of JWs by the Nazis. I knew about the gays, and the Jews, obviously, but had never heard of the JW connection before I saw it in Trumbo's book.

Frank, are you referring to Noam Chomsky's appearance on Real Time with Bill Maher? I thought of you while watching that and got all tingly. But seriously, I thought Chomsky was great, though listening to that git Andrew Sullivan sputter and call names afterwards was rather nauseating, didn't you think?

I love Bill Maher. He and Jon Stewart and HBO dramas make my cable subscription worth the money.

PAB

While we are chatting here so enjoyably, thousands of miles of miles away, men are killing and being killed in the name of the USA.

However you feel about the war, pro or con, please say a prayer to whatever gods you hold dear, that they will have mercy on their souls and ours as well.

Thank you, Jon, for bringing some rationality to what is turning into yet another speculative free-for-all, where emotions run rampant yet facts are few.

More advice for Lynn E
I went to www.vachss.com (the website of the child advocate Andrew Vachss) and emailed one of the volunteers the content of your original post; then I asked, "What is the next step?" Here is the body of what they emailed back to me:

We respect you not only for being willing to step up, but for asking the right question(s) *first*. The *first* step would be to confirm what the poster is either claiming or relying upon. She says that the individual in question is "under investigation for being a pedophile." As Mr. Vachss clearly explains, there would have to be underlying *conduct* to trigger an investigation ... and none is mentioned. Nor is the investigative agency identified. She goes on to say it is her "understanding" that "he is under court order not to be alone with ANY children!" So here are the first steps: (1) how does she know the individual is "under investigation" unless the investigation has been made public? [If she is relying on an "inside source" in law enforcement, she should be able to go to better places than a message board for help.] (2) Court orders are public records. She could easily obtain a copy. If the order reads as she states, it would be the simplest thing in the world to visit the home while her ex-sister-in-law is out and the individual is there with the children. *She* then becomes the witness -- to the violation of the court order -- and it's all done. Clearly, there was a divorce in the picture. Does the woman complained of have custody of the poster's brother's children? If so, why isn't *he* taking action? Even if CPS will not respond, even if the police will not, the non-custodial parent can *always* file for custody, claiming change in circumstances to the detriment of the children, and if an individual "under investigation for being a pedophile" and "under court order not to have contact with children" is now *living* with them, in a quasi-parental role, it sounds as if it would be a very compelling argument to make a change. Bottom line: the first step is to get the facts. Otherwise, no (meaningful) "advice" is possible.

Lynn E.

I really didn't want to reply to this because it brings back bad memories, but it is important:

Having seen what passes for romance and love and mutual passion in the hearts of these sick fuckers, I have to agree with the spirit and tone of Harlan's message along with the sentiments of most of the people who've responded to you.

Be SURE. Take evidence. Be ready to swear under oath and be 100% positive about what you saw and what you know. Not only MUST you speak up, but be sure of what you speak. Dismiss hearsay, dismiss personal hatred for the man and focus on the danger and WHY YOU KNOW action must be taken. Once you have that in your hand and mind, they will take action. If you have any doubt, they will not only doubt you now, but the next time down the road when you try to throw evidence their way. If your actions lead to a dead end with the police, the children are in far greater danger and your credibility is shot.

So GET THE FUCKER, but do it right.

I have been told that sometimes just a stern word with a pedophile will scare them into never trying something. DO NOT let them tell you this and close the matter with a "stern questioning" intended to scare the guy into straightening himself out. He could move out, down the street or to another town and hurt someone there.

Again - BE SURE and have everything you need. If you have doubts, THEY will have doubts. If you're wrong about any of this because you heard something or misread something you didn't see, you could irreparably damage an innocent person's life, or allow a guilty person to go free by giving defense attorneys material to provide a court or jury with reasonable doubt.

So I, too, say don't let them get back to you. If you are ready to stand up, do it - but that's just the first step. Be ready to stand up and FIGHT.

Here is the Maher transcript for ya mooks:

http://www.safesearching.com/billmaher/print/transcripts.shtml

Kristin: Books are on the way to you. Enjoy...Susan

FIVE miles?! Aw, crap. That can't be good.

Hope you have the time of your life at the convention, Harlan.

For Faisal, Cindy, Kris, Jon, and Harlan:
Thanks for your concern and, believe me, everything I can do I am doing plus some. I had not learned the full extent of the situation until very late in the evening when offices were closed and no one was listening. I'll be in the offices and on the doorsteps of everyone involved until something is done. Today. If they think I'll take the standard reply of "it's being looked into" and go quietly on my way, well, they are in for a very bad morning. I'm not being quiet and I'm not disappearing until not only does someone listen, but act.

Lucius Shepard
DTS: I haven't picked up Trujillo yet, but I'm planning on it, especially after your sterling recommendation. And if you like that, you'll LOVE his latest novel A HANDBOOK OF AMERICAN PRAYER. I'm about halfway through it now, and I'm thoroughly digging it. It's about a guy who goes to prison for accidentally killing a guy in a bar, who develops a method of writing prayers that leaves out any recognized deity, but still get people what they want. The prayers are actually beautiful poems. The guy goes from jailbird to overnight media sensation when he publishes his book, A HANDBOOK OF AMERICAN PRAYER. So far he is dealing with his newfound celebrity and wondering if he has brought a made-up entity in some of his prayers, the Lord of Loneliness, into actual, physical being. Good stuff. I'd never read one of Shepard's novels before, but I enjoy his short stories. The man speaks magical realism like a native.

James

Cindy,

Glad you checked in. I hope Ming has his fill of the wandering life and shows up soon.

Chuck

Literature, Books, Music and Such
Dave: Hmmmm. I did a search on "Jehovah's Witnesses in Nazi Germany" and most of the hits I got were sites run by JWs. But yeah, they were one of the persecuted groups, right alongside Jews and gays. you could try Berghahn Books (www.berghahnbooks.com) they have what looks like a collection of academic papers on the JWs and Nazis (PERSECUTION AND RESISTANCE OF JEHOVA'S (sic) WITNESSES DURING THE NAZI-REGIME, 1933-1945, edited by Hans Hesse) as well as other stuff. That's just what I found on Google, i don't know if it helps.


I just placed my order with Deep Shag. Click, click, click - money already transferred from my bank acct (Paypal) to theirs but they've got the wrong shipping address! Yikes! I emailed customer service with the right one, and then went to both Paypal and BOFA to update my street address for Visa billing/bank statements (but since I have my own paypal it comes RIIGHT out of my bank account, before any shipment takse place...) hope they figure out what to do (fingers x'ed) I can't wait to hear it...actually I ordered both vol's at once since Herc is sold out of volume one.

I started looking at Subterranean Press' web site this afternoon. Oh no! That way lies total bankruptcy! So many gorgeous well-bound limited edition books! And I'm still looking for work!

Susan: (Yeah I know it's your computer. But the other night I had this crazy dream: I dreamed manual typewriters had serial ports on them for use as Internet terminals!) Got the return receipt so you have my check - i trust it's matched up with the right order! Give my thanks to Sharon for handling the mail.

kristin

This is for any of you that may be familiar with the work of Dalton Trumbo, the author of the anti-war novel "Johnny Got His Gun".

In Trumbo's unfinished novel "Night of the Aurochs", the main character, Grieben--commandant of the Nazi concentration camp Auschwitz--notes that he had Jehovah's Witnesses working in his home at the camp. He states that the JWs were taken from the population of the camp to work as servants. Trumbo supplies no explanation in the text, and I'm left wondering about a few things: Were the JWs used as servants? or is this just one of Trumbo's fictional touches? And if they were used in this capacity, WHY were they used? In other words, why that specific group instead of some other?

I ain't got my MTV...

BUT I JUST GOT "On the Road With Ellison Volume Two"!!!!!! DELIVERED INTO MY MAILBOX. Shit a Dog.

And awesome it is. Almost twice the length, over twice the breadth, and SEVEN TIMES SWEETER than Volume One! Deep Shag did a great job.

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!

Michael, belated congrats on beating the cancer. What a tough nightmare to get through.

--Keither

For those of you who have been stalking the mailman, Deep Shag has shipped "On The Road With Ellison, Volume 2" - 70+ minutes of verbal goodness arrived in my malbox today. Can't wait to fire it up tomorrow morning (ah, the subversive benefits of arriving in the office at 6:30 am...)

Harlan - The photo by Jacques Chambon that was used for the front cover is nothing short of fabulous. That should be available as a lithograph. Where and when did he capture that moment?

For Lynn E
http://www.vachss.com/help_text/child_abuse.html#org

Cindy:

Okay, I'm relieved now, but simultaneously bummed that Ming got the travellin' itch. If it's any consolation, my brother's indoor cat -- normally scared of her own shadow -- disappeared into the woods for a couple days before finally deciding food was easier to come by in the kitchen than out of doors.

Thanks for checkin' in.

Come home, Ming!
D.

BENJAMIN A.A. WINFIELD:

It was an episode of the Mutual Network's GREAT weekly radio series "The Mysterious Traveler" and the title of the script by Robert Arthur was FIVE MILES DOWN, not "fifty."

Synchronistically,since--apparently no one has ever been able to find a tape, wire dupe or wax of that particular show--and no one has heard it in more than sixty-five years--it is of some small cathexian confluence that I and a full cast (including Jan Merlin, Walter Koenig, Stefan Rudnicki), plus a full sound effects "Foley table" and music, will be doing a live in-front-of-the-mike recreation FROM THE ORIGINAL SCRIPT at the Sperdvac golden age radio convention, this Friday evening at 6:00, before a live audience.

Hacienda hotel, at LAX.

I've been waiting all my life to do this!

Harlan

----------------------------------------------------------------
DON'T BOTHER ASKING ME FOR MORE INFO. LOOK IT UP ON THE WEB. PROBABLY UNDER, I guess, SPERDVAC CONVENTION.
-----------------------------------------------------------------

A Recommendation
ALL: After you buy a healthly armload or two of books and stuff from the Ellisons, anyone who wants to spend a few extra bucks on someone special should buy a copy of TRUJILLO by Lucius Shepard. I'm three stories into the book (although I'd previously read two of the stories in magazine form -- "Jailbait" and "Eternity and Afterward"), but I can already feel safe in telling you that it is a magnificent collection of stories (actually, "Trujillo" is a novel, over 130 pages long; the other ten stories all clock in at novella and novelette length).
(Here's the online address for PS Publishing -- the Subterranean Press of England:http://www.pspublishing.co.uk/cat/t.asp)
Like THE JAGUAR HUNTER and THE ENDS OF THE EARTH, both World Fantasy Award winners, this is shaping up to be a landmark collection for Shepard. I hadn't read the first story in magazine form -- though I set the issue aside last year intending to do just that and promplty lost it -- so when I finished "Only Partly Here" I was floored. What a brilliant story! It's set during the aftermath of 9/11; the protagonist is working with the crew that is cleaning out "the pit." I'm tempted to say it's worth the price of entry alone -- but the book _is_ of the limited edition variety, so both versions are three figures. But, man, it _is_ an excellent piece of work that packs an emotional punch felt days afterward (and I'm surprised it hasn't won lots of awards by now). The second piece, "A Walk in the Garden," set in future Iraq, with the American army still occupying that country, is also a corker.
John Clute gives the book a pretty good review in his "Excessive Candour" column (he claims it has a bit too much sturm und drang in it; personally, I dig lots of emotion and action).
In any case, I'm not completely done with it; but even so, I'd recommend the book to anyone who digs great writing and storytelling.
--DTS

LYNN E.:

Don't "inform" child services, GO DOWN TO THEIR GODDAM OFFICE AND SIT THERE TILL SOMEONE IN CHARGE COMES OUT TO TALK TO YOU, SOMEONE WHO C A N D O S O M E T H I N G ABOUT IT

N O W !!!!!!!!!

The rasping, annoying, in-your-face, I'm not going away, squeaky wheel gets the oil. NOW!

Harlan

saw the northern lights last night

for everyone's edification, may i point us all to William Gibson's blog?

www.williamgibsonbooks.com

he's been posting some keen, insightful opinion (and not just his own) of late with regard to U.S. politics in general.


respectfully, but i am cold up here,
neal

Harlan, what is your take on the American consensus against the so-called, "liberal elite?"

Is there some truth to the charge? You must admit, snobs are on both sides.

-----------

Cindy is my hero. She is America's moral center. Politics or not politics, this girl is the bomb.

PLEASE NOTE I AM NOT LICENSED TO PRACTICE LAW...
...IN THE STATE OF NORTH CAROLINA, but I am qualified to use a web browser...

LYNN E: If you are certain about that court order, skip CPS and go STRAIGHT to the police. From the North Carolina General Statutes...

§ 14-226.1. Violating orders of court.
Any person who shall willfully disobey or violate any
injunction, restraining order, or any order lawfully issued by
any court for the purpose of maintaining or restoring public
safety and public order, or to afford protection for lives or
property during times of a public crisis, disaster, riot,
catastrophe, or when such condition is imminent, or for the
purpose of preventing and abating disorderly conduct as defined
in G.S. 14-288.4 shall be guilty of a Class 3 misdemeanor which
may include a fine not to exceed two hundred fifty dollars
($250.00). This section shall not in any manner affect the
court's power to punish for contempt. (1969, c. 1128; 1993, c.
539, s. 139; 1994, Ex. Sess., c. 24, s. 14(c).)

...it's a relatively minor crime, but the police might be able to get him out of the house and down to the jail with it, at least until you can get to the judge, who, I agree with Cindy, is really your best hope, because he has contempt power. The court order should be a public record...

Lynn E.
Climb the ladder. Talk to the supervisors all the way up the tree until you get somebody who will do something. Give the names of those within the agency who were dragging their heels on this to anyone you speak to. Tell them you will go to the media if anything happens to the little girls. Once they realize they are also going to make the list if they do nothing, someone could feel compelled to get off his or her ass.

Oh, and find out what Court the guy is tangled up with and notify the Judge directly. If you could get ahold of the clerk of the Court you might ask who the probation/parole officer is for your area. If they have more than one, get their general number and call them. Give them the offenders name and paint a picture of the circumstances. Get the cops on it too. There might not be much time.

Good luck. The kids are lucky you're there.
Cindy






Michael,
I am delighted!!! Congratulations!!!!!
:)
Prayers for your continued health,

from,
Cindy



I'm sorry, Douglas,

I didn't realize I had such a gap in my check ins. Two of my tiny little poodles slipped out. One of the kids left the door ajar. I live just a bit out of town so I went to the nearest neighbors and talked to everyone. On Saturday night I got a call from some new people who had recently moved to a nearby house. They had Fay Wray, but Ming is still missing. I keep going back and walking around calling her. No luck. A few kids said they saw her yesterday. They said they fed her some cat food and gave her water. If she comes back they'll catch her. In the meantime I worry because she's all white that an owl or a coyote could see her at night. She only weighs about two pounds. Fay Wray is not even that big and she made it home so I have hopes for Ming as well.

That's why the gap. I have been waiting by the phone in hopes that somebody would have found her. I have an ad going in the paper but it only comes out on Wednesdays. I'll keep checking back in though. I'm sorry I was quiet. I thank you for your concern. I really appreciate y'all watching out for me.
Cindy


Oh, update!
The cop who was responsible in the Omar case ( the one who was also running in the Sheriff's race and got 866 votes) has a for sale sign on his trailer house. A couple of days ago he asked the animal control officer if anyone has called to question her. Sounds like something must be coming down. She asked if he was leaving and he said he was going to let his attorney decide if it would be in his best interest to get out of town. The sign that went up this morning looks like the decision's been made.





Faisal,
Kickin' ass in the UK. I'm PROUD to know you and call you my friend.

Cindy


Harlan
Hey.
:)

jots
Harlan: Zingerman's passed muster!? Nice to know I have good taste when I can afford it. Do you have any plans to come back to Ann Arbor, or anywhere in Michigan for that matter?

Cindy: Adding my voice to the chorus. Hoping no news is good news, but send reassurance down the pike as you're able.

Michael: Huzzah! Bounce your barbaric YAWP off the arc of the sky and, when time permits, here, too.

Kind Thanks...

4 Celsius; cold northern wind blowing through just about every person I see. They grumble and complain about the earliness of winter's arrival, at the evidence of the evening snow squalls displayed on morning roofs and cars. Me, I'm running and walking everywhere, tired but wanting to just keep going.

I've been out all morning, just walking; having nowhere in particular to go, but wanting everywhere for me to be. I stopped in at the library's computer service to respond to both friends and strangers. How many have come forward to speak, telling me of their joy at my good fortune.

The place couldn't be more beautiful, every street and house I seen for the last two months I've lived here, every person I strolled pass without recognition in prior circumstance I actually see. Good mornings and smiles just fly off of my mouth; most repsond well, but those who recoil slightly at my effusive cheerfulness get nothing but a laugh pushing against their suspicion.

God, I want to shout at everyone that passes about how fortunate they are. Despite all that goes wrong, we have a gift most precious and fragile, one that most take too much for granted. Apologies of those of religious faith, but they've been cheated in their sense of experiencing epiphany by acceptance of a fable of deliverance from existence's misery. For me, deliverance has come through living, in both misery and joy. I have been, in the truest sense I can imagine, reborn.

Thanks for the kindness from each and everyone.

Micheal

Rob,

I was working on a well-reasoned response to your post that actually postulated three degrees of epithets (thoughtfully-reasoned, conversational, and knee-jerk) and how you and I were actually talking about different degrees. And I got very involved in the differences and how they each have their purpose. Then I really got bored with it and decided, if I was bored, then no one else would care either. So, I’ll just say thanks for the response because it did make me think about the whole thing a lot deeper and it was fun thinking about it.

Mike

HARLAN,

I vaguely remember an episode of SC-FI BUZZ where you delivered an impassioned speech concerning one particular segment of the radio show QUIET, PLEASE. I can't remember the specifics, but I do vividly recall one passage from the segment you cited that remained burned into my conscious memory for ages:

"There is a place no human eyes has ever seen, fifty miles from exactly where we are standing right now. Fifty miles...DOWN."

I seriously doubt this is an exact quote. However, I am INTENSELY desperate to learn the title and story of this segment, as that passage you evoked so hauntingly on-screen has unnerved me to this day.

MICHAEL,

Whoever you are...congratulations. You'd better make DAMN good use of the life you've regained. CELEBRATE!

Just to let everyone know that I noticed that Hallmark is having, as part of their Christmas collectable ornaments, a "Star Trek": City on the edge of forever" ornament with audio from the show. Also Harlan will be in New York for the World Horror COnvention in April which is not that far from Boston for the person who posted earlier.

Michael, I just wanted to extend my warmest congratulations for your results. Kudos for defeating the traitorous lump of tissue. I hope that's the last you'll ever hear of any aberrant growth, even if it's the heartbreak of psoriasis.


Faisal, kudos to you for fighting the good fight and winning. Looks like the good guys do win once in a while. Thanks for reminding us.

And Cindy,

Please do check in. Please?

Chuck

Thanks for the best wishes everyone, now Lynn I don't know how it works in the US but if this man has a court order against him, isn't that a police matter? Never lose contact with your nieces, always try to see them every day and try and talk to your ex-sister in law. Check out for tell tale signs of paedophile behaviour.

i.e.

- Has he got a collection of children wear catalogues?
- Is he subscribed to the childrens TV network?
- What is the ratio of children/adult books on his shelves?

Watch out for these things. These are innocent things normally but if a suspect is under investigation for being a pedarest, these innocent items become far more disturbing. Also, it has been the experience of many of my friends in the Probation services and Sex Offender area that Paedophiles are the most cunning and intelligent offenders to deal with.

You have to be careful though, there might be the chance the man could be innocent but if there is a court order against him saying no kids should be near his presence, thats the kind of thing that newspaper headlines and social security manager resignation letters are made out of when something shitty happens. Its difficult to live even after someone is found innocent of an accusation of pedarest behaviour but if these stories your hearing are true, they need to be dealt with ASAP.

FAQ

Lee:
Thanks for the website suggestion. I'll check it out in about five minutes.

Susan:
Very sweet to offer me the booklist, but I think I already have it. I'm sure you'll hear from me soon.

My ex sister-in-law just moved my ten and seven year old nieces in with a man under investigation for being a pedophile. She is leaving those two little girls alone with him, even though it's my understanding he is under court order not to be alone with ANY children! The youngest said when she gets home from school he makes her wear shorts and she has been told not to talk to anyone-including her grandparents. Child services have been notified, but so far nothing has been done. It makes my stomach boil. I don't know why I'm telling all of you this. I'm seething with frustration.

At this rate, Rick may have to rename the board 'Unca Harlan's Justice Society.'

Congratulations, Micheal.

Cheers, Jon

Cindy -- Where is ya? Startin' to worry.

Faisal -- Right on!

Micheal -- Double right on!

D.

to several diff't people
FIght the good fight, Faisal. Yea! (Gee, and I used to think the British were somehow better than us, although that was when I was young and naive.) THe "system" can be just as bad there. Eeuch...it's either the racists, or the P.C. police; they just won't let you be real.

Micheal: Congratulations!!!! Huzzah! All right!

Harlan: I know good writers really prefer indie bookshops. I just wasn't sure if L.A. had any left! (Up here we do think of it as another planet.) The SF specialists have not done as well as the generalists. ANd if the webmeister is reading this...How about linking this site to Booksense ("buy local") instead of Amazon? The Islets of Langerhans page is already linked to them. At least you're not taking Amazon's dirty money (although many authors affiliate with Amazon because the bounty amazon pays is more than the royalty on most books. Sad.) Thank you for supporting the little guys.

A Heffalump and a Woozel!

Ack! I'm ill! Dooner makes a grammatical error! At least, I was corrected by the best!

Say, Harlan, when are you coming to the Boston area again? There are many of us here who want very much to meet you.

Steve Dooner

FAISAL: I am very, very proud for you. But yeah; don't expect that many will follow your example. Precious few men (and women) have the guts to really stand up and fight. That is why heroes' names are remembered.

MICHEAL: You don't know us; we don't know you.
But nevertheless, all of us are very happy for you indeed.
Now live.
And live WELL.

To Michael
Mazel Tov!

Congratulations Michael!

Micheal

DAMN STRAIGHT!!! A cheer for you from Massachusetts.

Congratulations, stranger! I don't know you but I'm happy for you all the same :)

I've been celebrating for three days:

MY TUMOR IS GONE!!!!!

Finitoed, Deep-Sixed, Finished. Full MRI and CAT scans confirmed. No more chemo; no more radiation.

Gone.

I know, nobody here knows me, but I don't care. I've been firing this all over the web.

I'm going to live.

Micheal

Bunny Redux
I know we all get bombarded with internet links our friends think are cool but never are, so here's another one. Except this one is really cool.

http://www.angryalien.com/

30 minute reduxes of various films told by cartoon bunnies. It's remarkably clever stuff.

WE ARE NOT ONE AND THE SAME PERSON.

SHE CAME BOPPING INTO THE BACK ROOM WHILE I WAS OUT GETTING ROLD GOLD PRETZEL SNACKS, READ WHAT WAS GOING ON AND POSTED OVER WHAT I WAS TRYING TO POST--OR SOMEDAMNTHING--AND SENT IT OFF WITH MY HEADING ON IT. I HAVE NOT BEEN SUBSUMED INTO THE PERSONA OF THE DEVIL-QUEEN OF MORPHOREA!

--HARLAN

LYNN E.:

Or...

You could ignore her suggestion, simply go to the Webderland book sales site, right here, and order either mint condition 1st edition or mint condition later printings of many titles, personally signed by my husband. Thereby putting the money in my sweetie's pocket, rather than strangers, who'll send you a book which has been heaven-knows-where, in heaven-knows-what-used-condition, at some exorbitant dealers' price, not to mention charging you an arm and a leg for postage and "handling."

Or you could simply ask me to send you our current booklist.

Why do visitors here try to send Harlan's readers to others, who make big bucks off HE's annuity? I don't think I'll ever figure it out.

Susan

Lynn E,

I’d recommend www.abebooks.com, which ties together many independent sellers under one site. Each book has an “Ordering Information” button that you can use to track back to the individual stores – phone numbers and email addresses are included. You could then call the individual store to place a snailmail order, or request a catalog. Taken together, the abebooks vendors have a satisfying inventory of sf/fantasy/horror. For example, “Harlan Ellison” returns 6946 volumes, which include all of his big ones plus many smaller collaborative projects that I had never even heard of. He sure is a busy old bugger. I tried searching on some classic authors like Tevis, Sheckley, Laumer, Maltzberg and Brunner. I’ll admit to being a little dissapointed at seeing Maltzberg w/ only fifty volumes available, but in the other cases there was a good representation of their work.

Alternatively, you could always go for the clandestine credit card registered to a PO Box. You would also need a secret bank account funded w/ cash sales of farm eggs which you would then use to pay off the internet credit card orders through a cryptic email address on a public server like yahoo. There’d be an entertaining disconnect introduced into your marriage, giving it a dimension of espionage and excitement that would probably culminate in your husband walking into the living room one day with a signed hardback of Ellison’s “Mefisto in Onyx” in hand, screaming about betrayal and demanding an explanation

You could plead that you are just an innocent book-addict gone wrong, desperately applying the same kinds of subterfuge that many husbands reserve for buying things like custom firearms, 33 rpm vinyl records of Manfred Mann and real Nazi war relics; but that in your case it’s just some little old books that you’d get at Walden’s if you could, only they suck. To patch things up you’d probably have to do a round of marital counselling, but there’s always the chance that it would end up producing a more durable if not quite so trusting relationship that is pre-stressed for surviving some deeper crisis lying in wait down the road.

If you think optimistically enough, you can’t go wrong either way.

Oh, and uh er, Dooner ... worms don't "lay," they "just LIE there," you grammatically-braindead heffalump.

(Preceding word provided by Susan.)

With scrumtious oodles of oojy-boojy love,

Yr. pal, Harlan

FAISAL:

Extreme congratulations, my friend. Good on'ya. Bask in the righteous glow of being a hero.

And now, you glorious guy, two IMPORTANT THINGS for you to know, in the wake of having done something right and noble and brave.

PLEASE PAY HEED!!!!!!!!!!

1) "Sending a message," ie, perhaps the next naive filmmaker will be aware of what you've done, and will stand up for him/herself before having to go to the law, as you did. Forget it. If even one person is remotely cognizant of what you did (because most people are deliberately ignorant, and won't go looking for the background of those with whom they're dealing, never considering "Chance favors the prepared mind") and isn't so besotted with the idea of "making it" or "getting produced" (which makes them a priori cowards, ready to have nails driven through their head rather than to "piss off" thieves and blackguards), you may think of yourself as an unqualified success as a social reformer. The sad sad truth, my brave friend, is that courage and honorable behavior are dangerous, take oodles of spunk and self-confidence and ire, and most people are just that...people...poor up-from-the-crustaceans who sidle away at the first sign of disapproval or risk. Which is why I treasure you and Cindy.

2) Heroic behavior is a narcotic. Puts roller coasters, wild sex, drugs, chocolate in the hip pocket. Courageous doings bring on the highest high you can imagine. Be wary. Once quaffed, this strange wine of Zorro becomes more addictive than absinthe. It fills you with a sense of godliness, maturity, invincibility, correctness. And soon thereafter you will get yourself arrested for vigilantism, or killed by a ravening mob of "normals." Be wary. Doing the Brave Thing is never easy, but afterward it produces a heavenly feeling that is potentially dangerous if you don't stay alert. Be wary.

Otherwise, a 24-gun, three-star, gold escutcheon encomium to you, ya little Hero.

Yr. pal, Harlan

Somebody hit me over the head with a sledgehammer...but I honestly believe that an interactive I HAVE NO MOUTH, AND I MUST SCREAM could be done again today. Not that the original version's gameplay has dated (the graphics have, but what do you expect...it's the game's innovative characters and plot that make the experience fresh no matter how man decades pass), but with the current state of improved video game technology today, isn't it possible to make an interactive interpretation of IHNMAIMS all the MORE eerie, terrifying, and thought-provoking? Or even better...A BOY AND HIS DOG?

Of course, Harlan would HAVE to return as AM, no matter if the game was for a PC, an XBOX, a Nintendo Gamecube, or a Playstation 2, 3, or 4. Absolutely no questions asked.

KRISTIN:

Shows how little you know me. The sgning will be at Dutton's (a family-owned "chain" of three stores here in Los Angeles) in the Valley, on Laurel Canyon Blvd., next to a Popeye's chicken.

I try not to do chains and megastores. It does happen, every far-between once in a while, but not very often. 90% of my signings over the years have been strictly at small shops and independants. By choice. Though I must admit that the people who manage Barnes & Noble "At the Grove" of Farmers' Market have been very hospitable to me.

This will teach you to ask, not assume.

Castles in the air are acceptable...until you start trying to move in the furniture.

Yr. pal, Harlan

Proper/Improper
Harlan:

My thanks for the gracious offer.

As for the requested insult, the best I can come up with before my third cup of coffee is "verbose rapscallion".

All the best.

---------Patty

Well, I'd better thank Harlan (who advised and offered support) and the rest of the board here who know certain details concerning a short script of mine that I was screwed out of by my regional screen agency, North West Vision (NWV), and the UK Film Council (UKFC, both bodies originally formed to stimulate and nurture film making in the UK and in my case, did the exact opposite).

A brief recap but I submitted a script to a UKFC/NWV scheme that went through a flawed production procedure that resulted in me being thrown off the project, a director bought on board who refused to talk to me until the final cut had been finished, two ethnic minority characters being changed to be white folks and a political spin put on the film that I did not endorse as it condoned human right atrocities by a certain political/ethnic group within the former Soviet Union.

I was told to go fuck myself, the film had a gala premiere in Liverpool and Cannes with the people responsible getting rewarded for their scummy and I still say, racially ignorant, behaviour. This is despite me not signing any contract as they delivered it after they had shot the film and I had been unofficially banned from visiting the set (by the director who ignored my phone messages). The film was also tipped for a BAFTA nomination but I was forced to remove my name from the film as the UKFC employee in charge was less then accomodating for my right to be credited under a pseudonym.

Luckily I got a lawyer who kindly took the case on and the result was an out of court settlement the terms of which I can't go into. I can say that that an email was sent out by NWV/UKFC requesting that all copies of the film on DVD and Video be withdrawn and returned and that the UKFC will not be distributing the film anymore.

Also changes are occuring within the UKFC and NWV that will allow more respect for writers rights (c/o the Writers Guild of Great Britain involvement), cultural diversity (c/o Wider Ethnic Vision involvement) and general all around respect for anyone who does anything creative and work their butt off for it (c/o BECTU and the other aformentioned bodies). Hopefully other film makers can avoid being screwed as badly as I had been by a confederacy of imbeciles that had lied, cheated, smeared and then goaded me into taking legal action. Apparently this was the first time anyone had ever taken action against a regional screen agency and legally criticised the UKFC for their abhorrant behaviour.

Hopefully now other film makers who've also been royally fucked over would roll over and play dead but frankly stand up for their rights and not take this abuse lying down. Or cower in darkened corners whispering that their careers could be jepordised by taking on such organisations. Now I feel a sense of queasyness when folks complain about being fucked over and I shout at them "Stand up fucker" and they just say its not worth it and carry on quietly bitching whilst they plan their own self-rape by going back to these bodies who stand unpunished for their previous transgression.

That's why I love Cindy, she's taking on a hell of a tough case and has a 100% of my support and am currently shopping her story around to hacks asking someone there to take it on. She has my complete respect. I'll refrain from commenting on the election results as it just said "poisoned chalice" to Kerry.

Best wishes.

FAQ

I first learned of Harlan through a magazine show called Sci Fi Buzz. The next week was spent desperately searching all local libraries and bookstores to (I'm very ashamed to say) no avail. Fortunately things have sinced changed, but not much. My very first internet search was for Harlan Ellison. What can I say? He's amazing. Oh, and if anyone has a reliable book store that doesn't mind dealing with mail orders I'll be eternally grateful if you let me know. My local store- a very small Walden-is useless at best. They take orders but never follow through and my husband has strictly forbidden me to place any orders over the internet.

I'd love to read Pet someday, in part because I'd like to get the bejeebers scared outa me by something besides real life.

In part because I'd like to see what scares Harlan Ellison. I figure it's a doozy.

And we all know he rites reel gud. I lerned awl I no about riting from Harlun Elisun. Expeseeully speling and puck...punkta...periods an' stuf.

Chuck

Yes i'm breaking the rules but
Go right ahead and delete that embarrassing duplicate msg! (I hate dialup modems.)

Hope this isn't double posted - net connection bad :(
Oh, you want us to insult you Harlan? (Laugh) I was weaned on, um, cautionary tales about what horrible things befell the last idiot who insulted Harlan. (It was always cautionary; the person in question had usually done something awful to provoke retaliation. Whether true or not, the stories pretty much worked! Urban myth has its uses...) Did you really personally catch a couple people pulling the fire alarms at the 1978 Worldcon???? What became of them?

Ah well... yer a sweet lovable cuddly huggable cute ferocious dragon monster with fangs dripping acid and fiery breath who eats babies for breakfast and has insulted everyone at least once. Only, they line up for more. If you haven't been properly insulted by a real master like Harlan you haven't lived.

I suppose your L.A. signing party is going to be at some chain store...sigh....indie and specialy stores have been brutally killed off in SoCal...Dangerous Visions...Change of Hobbit...altho I think the SF shops up here in Berkeley are still there. I wonder if they'd sell me (mail order) a signed copy of the 50th anniversary version of Essential? Twelve hundred pages is a bit expensive to mail both ways! (Indie shops often offer extra-good service with letting out of towners get nice, even personalized autographed books if you specify in advance. Somehow I don't trust Barnes and Noble or Borders to do that.)

Kristin
(Harlan, do you get the Vermont Country Store catalog by any chance? 1-802-362-8470 or 24hr fax 1-802-362-0285 24hrs. or www.vermontcountrystore.com. Not toll free but: They sell Neccos, (although all-chocolate comes only in individual rolls not a big tin) other classic candies, original-formula Ovaltine imported from Europe, (My father says it tasted awful - it's not the sugared-up version; he only drank it to get Captain Midnight decoder rings) replicas of the original 1935 Monopoly set.....oh, and really GOOD cheddar cheese aged up to four years. (My mother is from Vermont. And Necco stands for New England Confectionery Co.)

Do Flat Worms Actually Squirm? Or Do They Just Lay There?

Wow!

All I can say is that I can't wait for a new edition of Deathbird. I only own three editions--Todd, ya beat me!

Steve Dooner

Hum. More musings before bedtime......
Oh, you want us to insult you Harlan? (Laugh) I was weaned on, um, cautionary tales about what horrible things befell the last idiot who insulted Harlan. (It was always cautionary; the person in question had usually done something awful to provoke retaliation. Whether true or not, the stories pretty much worked! Urban myth has its uses...) Did you really personally catch a couple people pulling the fire alarms at the 1978 Worldcon???? What became of them?

Ah well... yer a sweet lovable cuddly huggable cute ferocious dragon monster with fangs dripping acid and fiery breath who eats babies for breakfast and has insulted everyone at least once. Only, they line up for more. If you haven't been properly insulted by a real master like Harlan you haven't lived.

I suppose your L.A. signing party is going to be at some chain store...sigh....indie and specialy stores have been brutally killed off in SoCal...Dangerous Visions...Change of Hobbit...altho I think the SF shops up here in Berkeley are still there. I wonder if they'd sell me (mail order) a signed copy of the 50th anniversary version of Essential? Twelve hundred pages is a bit expensive to mail both ways! (Indie shops often offer extra-good service with letting out of towners get nice, even personalized autographed books if you specify in advance. Somehow I don't trust Barnes and Noble or Borders to do that.)

Kristin
(Harlan, do you get the Vermont Country Store catalog by any chance? 1-802-362-8470 or 24hr fax 1-802-362-0285 24hrs. or www.vermontcountrystore.com. Not toll free but: They sell Neccos, (although all-chocolate comes only in individual rolls not a big tin) other classic candies, original-formula Ovaltine imported from Europe, (My father says it tasted awful - it's not the sugared-up version; he only drank it to get Captain Midnight decoder rings) replicas of the original 1935 Monopoly set.....oh, and really GOOD cheddar cheese aged up to four years. (My mother is from Vermont. And Necco stands for New England Confectionery Co.)

Bastard Battalion
Well, in honour of Harlan's request, I invite you to sing along with the Alexei Sayle bastard song:

Who's a lazy bastard,
And fat as he can be?
A-L-E
X-E-I
S-A-Y-L-E!
Alexei Sayle!
Alexei Sayle!
With the 'B' that stands for 'Bastard',
'Bastard!'
With the 'B' that stands for 'Bastard!'

OK, I may have conflated two separate Alexei Sayle Bastard songs, and in any case it doesn't really work in relation to Harlan. But my heart is in the right place, right here on the desk next to my cheroots and my Old Speckled Hen.

Cheers, Jon

Zingermans... yum.

Harlan as Zelig??? Now isn't that special!

Harlan Ellison
I think I've been a Harlan Ellison fan ever since that night on the Delta when, under a romantic full moon, among the brass bands and flying beads he gazed into my eyes, took me by the hand and soundly kicked my ass for trying to lift his wallet.

Since then and especially every time I try to crane my neck a certain way, I think of Harlan. And I smile and sigh, knowing that somewhere, on that elegant yet powerful left hand, there is a small scar left by one of my teeth last seen soaring over the French Quarter in a fine mist of my own blood.

Ahh. Memories.

Way to go, Keith. I love stories like that. I always thought LATE and TARDY meant the same thing.

My first exposure to Harlan Ellison: I was in my early teens, and home sick from school. My mother went to the library to get me something to read, and came home with Strange Wine because it looked interesting. Two days later, me still home sick, and mom was off to the library again for anything else by HE. Deathbird Stories it was, and I was hooked! Thanks, mom.

Am I in time to honor request number one or number two? Choose one:

Harlan you are a rare bird indeed, there are plenty of brilliant minds out there but none have quite the flavor of wit that you have. Thanks and praises for all the hours of wonderful reading. And the litte gems here in the forum as well.

Harlan, you vertically challenged enfant terrible! You overuser of polysyllabic adjectives! You ka-ka-kopf! We only like you a little bit. Sometimes.

First saw/heard Harlan speak at MIT in the early '80s (would've been '82-'83). The one line I still recall was his wonderful off-the-cuff description of MIT students; "You people veer dangerously close to sanity...but fortunately, you never quite make it all the way there!"

Prior to that, first discovered Harlan's work as a teen in the mid-70s with the Pyramid publication series (well, actually, I'd have to guess my first exposure would've been City on the Edge of Forever, which you'd pretty much have to expect for someone who was age 5-9 during Trek's original run; wasn't going to be anything Harlan was writing at that point, nor his previous tv work).

First contact would've been in early 1980, when, for odd reasons, I sent a letter offering to work as what'd now be called an intern for that summer. I did specifically put in the letter that if he wasn't interested, I did not expect any sort of response. Got back a very nice letter, declining due to both to having all the help needed and that he was going to be spending much of the summer in Europe anyway. More likely, there was a side comment or two at Wonderland of "Who is this idiot from North Carolina and why does he think I'd have an intern I've never met". (hey, it was pre-Xenogenesis publication) :-)

Favorite personal quote: Harlan was speaking at UMichigan, and I'd ended up as organizer and handler. After he spoke to a class and finished up around noon, he and I have the following exchange (from memory):

Me: Harlan, we're taking you to lunch at a world-class deli. (mentally count down from three for expected response :-))

Harlan: What?! We're in the midwest. I grew up in the midwest. There is no good deli here. I've lived in New York, I live in Los Angeles, I know great deli. Besides, you're a WASP from North Carolina, how do you know from great deli?!

Me: Trust me...

So, we take Harlan to Zingerman's Deli. While waiting to place our order, Harlan sniffs around the place. He approves that they have seeds in the rye bread, that they serve Dr. Brown's, etc. We get our meals. The sandwich is so large he can barely finish it; I ended up getting most of the noodle kugel he'd ordered.

At the end, he sits back and says "OK, you're right. It is a worldclass deli. I don't know what it's doing here, but it is a worldclass deli."

Well, I guess the "You're a WASP from NC..." quote does tie for personal favorite with "...and Tom Galloway who we still haven't gotten laid. Any women out there with high IQs and low morals, please call in..." (and even longer story. :-))

Harlan,

It's great news to hear that you are publishing through Subterranean Press. I purchased the George Martin RRetrospective in their tray case edition. It was brilliantly executed (an impressive read, too). Regarding Subterranean's customer care, I can add that there was minor packing tape damage to the tray case on arrival, which I reported back as an opportunity for improvement but with no demand for replacement. Two weeks later I got a replacement case anyway, with a kind note explaining that less than perfect is not good enough.

I'll buy from those guys any time.

Happy To Oblige
That's just the kind of thing I'd expect from the bastard.

REPLY TO PATTY & A TEARFUL PLEA:

Patricia, m'dear:

If you send me your DANGEROUS VISIONS c/o The Harlan Ellison Recording Collection (HERC) at PO Box 55548 / Sherman Oaks, California 91413-0548 ... and you put in a padded bag or similar safe return implement, and you stamp it properly for the journey back to you, so I can do the deed cricketswift without tsuriss, it will be my pleasure personally to inscribe it for posterity. Put a Postit or some similar bookmark protruding from the page whereat you'd like my defacement to appear. Just another gracious service of the Ellison BlowFly Eradication & Lath and Plaster Defenestration Service, Pty. Ltd.

And as long as I'm here ...

Okay...okay...y'got me. Since y'all know that I handle any and all compliments badly--in point of queasy fact they do make me squirm like a planarian worm--I admit and consent and trembling as with the ague acknowledge that you gave me as ruthlessly and richly as I deserve with your lachrymose, your hurtful approbation.

Can we now go back to the insults, attacks and ad hominem slurs upon which I batten?

Geezus-peezus, you guys gimme no disrespect!

Crawling under the weight of unconditional love,

Yr. pal,

Harlan

Dear Todd:

The answer is YES. In work, as we speak. Wait till you see the extraordinary dust jacket painting Tom Kidd did for the book! To be published in a slipcased collectors' edition deluxe by Subterranean Press; and with a different (format consistent dj) edition from the SF Book Club, as part of their 50th anniversary classics collection.

All this happense next year. 2005.

Merely ask, and ye shall receive.

Yr. pal, Harlan

harlan...
I don't remember when I first read Harlan Ellison, I think maybe junior high, because I know that I'd read A BOY AND HIS DOG in seventh grade. I might have read something else before that, but that's the first one I really remember. I had read STARLOG and things like that in grade school so I remember knowing who Harlan Ellison was even before first reading him.

For various reasons, I wound up attending a private Christian high school [I grew up in the Bible Belt.] Some of the teachers were nice and everything a teacher should be, but others were terrible and were the sterotypical fundamentalist brainwashers. The textbooks were all really terrible too...even the sentences in the grammar workbooks had conservative propaganda in them. I'm surprised the story problems in the math books didn't have loaves and fishes in them. By high school I'd gotten more into Harlan's essays and I think it really helped me keep my mind intact back then, and helped me grow into the independent thinking adult I am today. So thanks, Harlan.

SIGNING NOTICE:

HE will be signing STRANGE WINE next month in Los Angeles. i'll have details early next week. (You will be able to order thru the store if you live out-of-town).

--Susan

Like Greg Hurd, I was at the Ferris State lecture in Big Rapids. I remember leaving the event with a full-force adrenaline rush that lasted for about three or four days afterwards. Damn! If only we could bottle that! The Big Rapids hit was my fifth Ellison performance and it was amazing how absolutely ON Harlan was, as blistering, funny and compelling as he was the first time I saw him Live!! which was a quarter of a century before.

HARLAN!! COME BACK TO MICHIGAN!

Ahem. Is this mike on?

Just a word or two to add to the recognition of the wonderfulness that is Harlan Ellison.

An early memory of reading his works that will always leave a powerful impression on me is an eerily quiet Friday night in a darkened house in the suburbs of Long Island while I was babysitting. Nothing but me, the pool of light from one lamp in the living room, and the hardcover copy of DANGEROUS VISIONS on my lap. His introductions to the tales therein made me smile, shiver, and, in one case, cry.

I've tried on several occasions to get to conventions to have Harlan sign that particular page in my book, but my attempts [since 1989] have backfired to the point of seeming a comedy of errors, too involved to dictate here.

It's important to tell those who've moved us, with their words or with their actions, exactly how much they mean to us. So here I go.

Harlan, you're wonderful.

I'm stepping away from the mike now.

--------Patty

TALLIWHACKERS AND A BASKET OF FRUIT

Cookie,

"Can the US elect a woman AND a black man at the same time? Is Obama even eligible?"

Even without the new political realignment (which I don’t believe will hold as long as the Republicans think, given the vast corruption that typically follows massive deregulation and the closeness of the national vote, which was something like 43% to 45%), I can’t see an America making that stride so soon; at least in the prospect of a female winning the White House (either way, Hillary herself is just too stigmatized). However, I think with Colin Powell’s powerful image we’re nearing the dawn of a color blind electorate that looks to a universal charisma and intelligence. I could see Obama emerge from that very mold (breaking the Jesse Jackson/Al Sharpton stigma).

Y'know, just to digress, I was reminded about the social landscape of this country - its TRUE state - by a Rabbi recently. According to him, over 50% of the U.S. population believes evolution to be a falsehood. Now, I knew many religious freaks out there had this problem; but THAT'S a scary stat. It brings my mind back to the contention David and I posted about the uninformed American voters; it isn't just that they don't read (though many don't). It's WHAT they've programmed themselves to read...and blindly accept. I don't know how you fight that.

(And a word about France. They are a politically weak-kneed nation, curtsying, I believe, to passify their growing Muslim contingent - with anti-Semitism on the rise - thus, this "loving" embrace of Arafat. My feeling is France is going to have a rough future internally)

Cookie, I'll see you in the Netherlands!

Mike Jacka,

"Harlan is a master of words. It is why we are all here. If he used cocksucker. I will go out on a limb and assume it was the exact word he wanted, with the impact he wanted, with the appropriate implications, within the specific context, for that particular situation...
Your "cocksucker" or "fuck you" is my "idiot"".

Each to his own. But I have a lot of trouble with your notions about profanity. I use profanity as a means to channel anger - as do most people - so as not to repress it; repressed anger is a sure course to psychotic rage. If I tried to passify my language - and with all the stresses in life I'm not even going to try - I wouldn’t be honest with my feelings. It would be artificial padding. Profanity is for RELEASE (bearing in mind, it can certainly be at inappropriate times or OVER used; in fact, most people I hear using CONSTANT vulgarities sound like uneducated dorks…and often turn out to be). It’s not an aesthetic; it’s not some device invented for art. It’s a vital emotional release (which art has much to say ABOUT). Thus, if I were to flower my outbursts with "idiot" as a stand-in for "fuck you", I wouldn’t be honest with my feelings. I’d just as leave resolve the issue with a tire iron! Your post almost suggests that you need a brilliant wordsmith like Harlan to legitimize the use of a specific vulgarity and HOW it’s to be used. As if it should be a privilege excluded to the creative elite because they use it to make a great artistic comment. As if no one outside that circle should be entitled to it. Well…that’s really pretty silly. For one thing, I’m pretty sure that if you cut off Harlan on the freeway he’ll unleash the same unrestrained filth for no calculated effect other than giving you shit for your lousy driving. And if HE doesn’t I will.

And just to ease the minds of the Pure At Heart here, I actually NEVER use the word "cocksucker" in my outbursts; I don’t think I EVER have. Just not part of my conditioning. Also remember, we don’t always use profanity within earshot when we’re pissed at someone. Most often when I say "fucking asshole!", it’s to myself (but if I WANT him to hear it I'll make sure he does). It allows me get OVER whatever it was that pissed me off and move on without assailing someone. By the HEALTHY definition, THAT’S what profanity is for; rarely should any other meaning be read into it. It's the oral variation of punching your pillow. However vulgar it might be, if it’s honest with your feelings…USE it. Sotto voce or otherwise, DON’T try to pretty it up or passify it; with such artificial padding, you’ll only join the repressed wretches out there lined up for Domestic Abuser of the Year.

***This all had me thinking a little about the etymology and transformations in meaning/context that have followed vulgar language historically.

For instance, the english word ass (donkey, derived from the root Equus asinus), also used as a term of contempt, referring to a silly or stupid person like the one our fine fellow Americans elected, was a variant of the British word arse; in recent years, in the U.S. both arse and ass became synonymous with the butt. But in Britain and Australia, ass still only refers to the donkey, and arse to the buttocks. I imagine "asshole" was a wholesome spin to stress the distinctions; we MUST make sure who we’re insulting understands HOW severely they’re being insulted!

I wonder how "dick" evolved to designate the penis. One OLD variant was "TALLIWHACKER"; well, that’s pretty feeble as a put-down. Centuries ago I guess it took less to demean someone. No, leave me talliwhacker out of this. I need something stronger.

I hear women use the term "dick" for a put-down more than guys; and, not surprisingly, guys conversely using "pussy". Intended meanings being different of course.

I sense many vulgarities in English trace back to Cockney expressions.

I remember reading how Burgess took his famous title from the old Cockney expression, "As queer (when it still meant "strange"!) as a clockwork orange"; he said that people had by this time read new meaning into it: "some believed that the title referred to a mechanically-responsive (clockwork) non-human (orang, Malay for person). Burgess states in his later introduction, "A Clockwork Orange Resucked", that a creature who can only perform good or evil is "a clockwork orange -- meaning that he has the appearance of an organism lovely with colour and juice but is in fact only a clockwork toy to be wound up by God or the Devil." Rumour had it that Burgess had intended to name the work "A Clockwork Orang" and was thus hypercorrected to the form we know. In his essay "Clockwork oranges"2 he says that "this title would be appropriate for a story about the application of Pavlovian, or mechanical, laws to an organism which, like a fruit, was capable of colour and sweetness".

Cindy:

Prayin' for ya, in my agnostic way.

D.

Ooh, so it's Harlan Flattery Day? Well.....
In the 1980s I was nuts about Dr. Who. I was already an SF reader, particularly of Asimov and other classic works, plus some interesting things like Michael Moorcock's Dancers at the End of Time series. My first conventions, however, were media cons (more British stuff than Star Trek.) I picked up one of the US editions of about ten or a dozen Who novelizations that were published in the US - with an introductory rant by Harlan Ellison talking about how Moorcock forced him to watch an episode and how he'd told a Worldcon crowd Doctor Who was his hero amid uttering (then) sacrilege about how much Star Wars and Star Trek sucked! Wow,i thought, anybody brave enough to talk that way...And I'd seen the Glass Teat books around and figured that a man who went around telling people to smash their TVs (still does maybe - well I'll smash mine when you smash yours...wait, its my parents and not mine to smash)actually LIKING a show must be the ultimate endorsement. Like, it's not really tv, it's BRITISH! Gotta be cool! For several years I watched almost nothing but BBC programs on pbs.

In 1985 San Jose, California, held its first film festival and decided to dedicate the whole thing to SF and fantasy. I was with a friend and told her "I want to go see the Tribute to Harlan Ellison!" My friend, who came from a very prudish and fundamentalist family, said she could not go with me because she hated HE's guts for embarassing her in front of her father, whom she had naively brought along to some convention not knowing about HE's penchant for colorful epithets! She said, "Well, you're in for an entertaining afternoon!" Harlan lectured for a couple hours and screened "Demon with a Glass Hand" (old tv episodes weren't all on video then, and it hadn't been shown locally in awhile.) I still remember he was dressed like an auto mechanic! And I LOVED the speech!

I discovered fandom, and eventually graduated from media cons to general or literary ones. I read a couple Harlan stories in anthologies like Don Wollheim's annual Worlds Best (which sadly died with him).

In 1992 I read the "Super Hugos" anthology (results of a fan poll for "meta-Hugos" or all time favorites among the awards winners) if I recall correctly HE was the only author with TWO stories in it! Harlequin and IHNMAIMS were both in there and I read them on the way home from Magicon in Florida.

Sometime in the 90s E was at BayCon in San Jose. I forget what year, but that was when I bought my copy of ESSENTIAL. I read some of it ("Deathbird" for instance) but mostly it languished on my shelf for far too long!!

1995: HE writes story at Booksmith in San Francisco. Public radio show West Coast Live (www.wcl.org) had Robin Williams on the phone, telling the audience which words he had given Harlan for a story idea. I wished sooo badly to be there (but now I gather unless you waited in line for HOURS you'd never get anywhere near.)

1997: HE gets interviewed on West Coast Live. (which Booksmith supports). I'm in the live studio audience - now have signed copies of CITY ON THE EDGE OF FOREVER as well as SLIPPAGE. MUCH less waiting than any public bookstore signing!

Flashforward - a month or so ago: impoverished by the difficult job market here, I'm forced to move back home with mom and dad (maddening to have to live like a teen when you're almost forty) - amid packing books I pick up the Ellison ones, reread CITY, read Harlan's words about himself and his life and experience divine illumination. I couldn't read it all, of course, but I craved more....put ESSENTIAL and SLIPPAGE into a paper bag I THOUGHT was going to come home with me - somehow it didn't. My precious, signed and personalized convention souvenir is now somewhere in a crammed-full storage locker amid boxes, upended furniture, and I don't remember what else. (In a bag though...I might be able to rescue it....)

The URLs leaped out at me from inside the SLIPPAGE cover. I went to the usenet one, found a link to Webderland and was quite startled to notice Internet postings from Harlan...Internet postings? Hell must have gotten cold the past few years!

I'm going on way too long again! Sorry folks. Thanks Todd, Steve D., Cindy, and James Palmer for your wonderful insights which are well thought out. Cindy, I'm not that religious but you have my thoughts.

kristin
harlan YERR THE FUCKING GREATEST IN THE UNIVERSE! Even your computer-posts are literary masterpieces!

HARLAN: Actually, the site was originally set up to talk about you and your work. No stipulation was set on declaring and declaiming your inherent wonderfulness.

Besides--writing aside, doesn't the lovely *MRS.* Ellison have the lock on wonderfulosity in the family?

(I kid, I kid; I receive dead gophers in the mail ...)

CINDY: I vehemently disagree with you on politics. Likely always will.
Doesn't make you any less of a homegrown hero.
(Butreally; under two percent does NOT a mandate make ...)

The first time Harlan exposed himself to me (so to speak) was in an issue of Rocket's Blast Comic Collector magazine. What an awakening. Woke me from my lifetime of stupor and I have been raising hell and defying authority ever since.

I shudder to think of the wasted lifetime I would have had had I not been exposed to his magnificence.

Boo-yah.

Shameless Praise
Picked up "Approaching Oblivion" off some rack during a Greyhound trip to Tennessee. That alone kept me going over the summer of '76. Through the years I have devoured all his books and essays, some 36 PB and several HC and I'm sure I am only scratching the surface on magazines + such.
I drove five hours to Novi to be told "Harlan's going to lunch now", but it was still a bit of a thrill to see HE in person for the first time, much like Wil Eisner or Bill Stout, whom I've met at similar shows. ALL big events for me. I simply gave blood to the Red Cross at the con + caught HE later, who was quite animated + beyond belief. .
Made a similar trip to Big Rapids a couple years later in a much more intimate setting. Great talk + you did manage to rankle a few staff + students. Priceless, even though I did have a tire blow out on the way home around 2 AM in the dark Michigan woods. But it was still worth it.
I'm sure everyone here has been moved in some way, either by his written word or the pleasure of his company. Harlan is a rare person in the literary world, still fighting the good fight, remaining loyal to his convictions, and still finding time to chat + question + cajole slack jawed fans like myself. Thank you, sir!!

Harlan is wonderful. I still remember my first exposure. I was 11, and browsing the City Lights bookshop, I came upon a stack of old Doc Savage pulps for $5 a pop. I bought two, and one of them featured the full-length Doc Savage novel They Laughed And Laughed, in which Doc, Monk, Ham and Renny teamed up with a young Harlan Ellison to stop John Sunlight's third attempt at global domination, which if I recall correctly involved a giant squid, a Ponzi scheme and a cigarette lighter made out of refined uranium. Only years later did I learn that Harlan was real, and only a few months after that did I learn that John Sunlight, Doc and the guys were real too, only under different names. The rest is history.

Cheers, Jon

What I did after seeing Harlan speak for the first time....
Harlan is totally awesome!

Here's what I was motivated to do after seeing him when I was only 15 years old, and fat as a State Fair Tomato.

My mom drove me down to VA Beach for SciCon7, and I stayed down there myself, met some interesting people, and came back via Greyhound Bus (yes, my folks thought I was a pretty responsible kid) on Sunday evening. Monday, I was so tired from the weekend, I was late to school. 15 minutes. I basically missed Homeroom.

Reported in to the office upon my arrival for a late-slip. First one ever. They said that because I was more than 10 minutes late, I would be considered tardy for the day, and that would go on my record. Tardy means you missed the entire day of school.

Well, when the lady in Administration told me that, I felt a surge of righteous anger, and fueled by Firebrand Ellison's weekend talks at the con, I told her that if that was the case, I was going to take the day off school. I walked out.

She ran screaming after me. She begged me to come back. I told her I was coming back only if she marked me late, and not tardy. So she did.

First time I ever really stood up for myself. Looking back on it, it seems very trivial. But my middle-class life was boring as hell, and there was never anything to fight growing up. If you don't learn it then, when are you supposed to learn it?

Apparently from Harlan: in a book, or in person.

:)

-Keith

My how timely your request that we discuss your genius.

Last week I was looking for “The Day I Died” for my son. I’m sure there was a systematic way to find it (e.g. using the Webderland database) but I went for the more fun approach of randomly pulling Ellison books off the shelf and looking through them. It is a great way to visit old friends. I started looking through Slippage and decided it was time to reread it. I finished tonight.

What a difference a few years can make. I remember enjoying the book, but nothing like this. Apparently, this book is much like Mark Twain’s father and has gotten smarter as I have gotten older. It is not like I read these the first time as a young teenager. I am now 49 years old. But I have apparently reached a point where I can at least begin to glimpse the genius within this book. (Did anyone list “She’s a Young Thing and Cannot Leave Her Mother” as one of the scary stories for Halloween? It scared the shit out of me this time, and I don’t remember that happening before.) In a way, it was almost like discovering Harlan again.

Mike

For Harlan:
(cue Cookie and the band)

and a-one, and a-two,

You're the top!
You're the Coliseum.
You're the top!
You're the Louvre Museum.
You're a melody from a symphony by Strauss
You're a Bendel bonnet,
A Shakespeare's sonnet,
You're Mickey Mouse.

Yeeeeeah, baby!

Michael

Back to Business...
HARLAN -- you're great. 'Nuff said.

Bush who?

Yours,
Tim

The thought of Harlan Ellison helps me to go to sleep on bad nights.

My Opinion On The Political Climate


Harlan Ellison is wonderful. He truly is. Wonderful.

Cindy,

If there's one thing I've learned about you during your stint on these boards, it's this: while I might not always agree with you, I know you have both a good heart and an open mind. That makes you aces in my book.

We need more conservatives like you. Heck, we need more liberals like you. Ah hell, we just need more people like you: strong in your convictions, but open to other possibilities.

Keep fighting. My thoughts go with you.

---Peter

I called Malcolm Greenstein a minute ago in Austin. He said he needs some time to figure out whether or not he's going to take the case. He explained that his is a two man office with lots of cases and in order for him to take it on it would be a lot of out of pocket expense to depose all of the witnesses and get the case put together. He's not sure yet. PRAY for me y'all. If you don't pray-- try it now, PLEASE. We need this guy-- he's the best there is. I told him I believe the County would settle it out of court because their position is indefensible, particularly in the Sam Scantlin case. He said it would take him a long time to explain to me the hurdles that have to be overcome to get a case together and filed. He told me he wants to talk to Merle again and I should call him back after next Wednesday.


Pray, please, for all the people of Mason County.

Cindy


Steve Dooner,
Don't apologize, that post was well put and you have excellent points. I don't want it removed, I want to study it.

Your friend,
Cindy



Harlan,
Thank you for what you wrote about me. I feel a lot safer because of you and all of the Webderlanders out there watching.
I'm no hero... I'm just determined.

Cindy

Note to the 100,000 plus Dems who went to the Immigration Canada website the day after Shrubaya's win, to check into the potential of moving to our country:

OUR MEDIA IS CONTROLLED BY LARGE AND POWERFUL CORPORATIONS ENITRELY PROMOTING THEIR OWN AGENDAS, AND OUR POLITICIANS ARE FULL OF SHIT!!!!!! ALSO, MICHAEL MOORE CAN'T COME; RICK MERCER DOES THE SAME JOB AND MUCH BETTER!

I still love Mercer's quip: "A note to Bush: The red phone doesn't put you in contact with Batman."

If you're a doctor, kindly ignore previous message.

In a poll of numerous Canadians, Harlan Ellison was:

Very Wonderful -- 68%
Somewhat Wonderful -- 39%
Full -- 46%
Full of %*$@ -- 2%

Results are accurate to within 5% of actual numbers, allowing for the persons who were queried at gunpoint.

Scott Reeston,
Ministry of Canadian Reality
Fact Assertion Dpt.

APOLOGY!
I formally apolgize to Harlan and the Pavilion, I was writing my previous posts as word came to end the political discussion.

I did not intend to push this any further than it should and would be happy if Rick removed my post.

Steve Dooner

Deathbird Cometh?
So, Harlan, will next year bring a 30th Anniversary Edition of Deathbird Stories? Please? Pretty please? I only have seven editions of this book; it's the book I discovered in the school library (gasp, how did that get there in the mid-70's?)that alerted me to the fact that strange story about a harlequin and time and jelly beans adapted in Unknown Worlds Of Science Fiction was written by someone who had a lot more up his sleeve.

It's only my favorite collection of short stories in this world.

So, whaddya say? 2005? 30 years? I'll place sugar on top.

-TODD

Cindy: I'm stunned that, after your experience with police, you believe America should be the "police" of the world.

Did we rush in to save the slaughtered and oppressed in Iraq? Truth is, we supported Saddam when he gassed the Kurds, even though the rest of the world decried the horror. In the eighties, we sold guns to Iraq and an Iran and watched one million people die. We killed 100,000 Iraqi military in the first Gulf war. We are responsible for the deaths of 100,000 civilian deaths in this war. There are also anywhere from 100,000 to 300,000 military deaths in Iraq because of this war as well. Gee, I think it's obvious that we have been the chief killers of the Iraqi people, and yet, you somehow see us as fighting slaughter and oppression. Sounds like we behave abroad much like the police department you know.

In Texas, you know well the reality that NAFTA created and that is Clinton's doing, you're right. However, here's a surprise. Clinton was a politician who passed more Republican legislation than any Republican president ever--including Ronald Reagan.

But NAFTA and The Dot-Com bust were only contributing factors in a world-wide recession that also prominently included George Bush's dear friends ENRON and the rolling backouts in California.

If you really think its's all about the economy, here's what the San Francisco Chronicle said about our economy: "the government's deficit ballooned to $326.6 billion in the first nine months of the 2004 budget year, according to a snapshot of U.S. balance sheets released Tuesday.

That's more than 20 percent larger than the $269.7 billion shortfall for the corresponding period last year. For the current budget year which began Oct. 1, this spending has totaled $1.73 trillion, 6.4 percent more than the same period a year ago. Revenues came to $1.40 trillion, 3.5 percent more than the previous year."

That means that your "Republican" president is all about big government--it's just big government that will never help any of us. He's good at giving our money to the Insurance companies and Haliburton. Gee, that no bid contract to Haliburton has made me feel sooooooo safe.

Most importantly, you candidate is not a "good man," as you suggest. He has shut off access to the press, closed down our ability to question him, and has suppressed Free Speech. His Patriot Act is exactly the same thing as The Alien Act and Sedition Act that was the shame of John Adam's presidency. And even though he pretends to be the hopeful and positive candidate you think he is, The Washington Post's analysis shows that Bush ran 75% negative ads to John Kerry's 20% negative ads. He also outspent John Kerry throughout the campaign. That's how he won--by not being a "good man."

How a Christian can advocate war is beyond me. How a Christian can support a flagrant liar is also beyond me. Did he divert $70,000,000 from the Afghani War to his secret plan to attack Iraq. Yes, he did. Did the Carte Blanche he gave Enron help to start the recession? Undoubtably! Did the world wide recession spur him to action? No. Did Bloomberg Magazine, The Economist and his own Treasury Secretary tell him his sort of tax cuts would be ineffective against the recession. YES!!!!!

This post could be one hundred feet long by the time I went though all of it. Let me end by saying our environment is in peril, our educational system is suffering from an unfunded mandate, our states are picking up the slack from his tax cuts, scientific research has been set beack twenty years, our nation is trapped in perpetual war, nuclear proliferation is out of control, the nations of the world are poised for apocalypse and the future is as bleakest it's ever been.

Other than that, he's been a good president. I just can't wait for privatizatiuon of social security, the national sales tax, the war with IRAN and a Constitutional Amendment against gay marriage! Hooray!

I'm sorry to be so blunt, but this is how I feel.

Steve Dooner

(For those of you who can't take it anymore--that's me too. I will write no more political posts after this one).

OBITER DICTA

Pirouetting in for a sec, just to drop a hammer or two:

One: I am as dismayed as many of you Fellow Elitists as to what Bush's re-election foreshadows for us all in the next quartet of years (and I only loved Steve Dooner's most recent post), but my poor frangible ego is feeling lost'n'lonely. So if you could be, er, uh, um, persuaded to take the political rhetoric to an appropriate thread, and relinquish this mere and meager site for the purpose to which it was dedicated, ie, TALKING ABOUT HOW WONDERFUL I AM, I'd be most grateful.

Two: Please do NOT remove anything pertaining to Cindy and her LOWdown crusade. Keep it coming. We are her back-up support group, and I am every day amazed and re-amazed at the height, width, depth and power of her heroism. I've known a few heroes in my time, and I know one when I see one.

Thank yez all, and as always, I remain, humble to the core, Yr. pal, Harlan

Todd,
You're not alone. I'll sit with you on that bench. I think we are all afraid of not being on the winning side in these elections. When Carter won I remember feeling like the Country was going to be ruined. I felt the same way when Clinton got in. Clinton did a good job in most ways and the Country fared well during his time in office. I was outraged by the Lewinsky scandal, not because of what he did but because he lied so forcefully and so convincingly that I believed him. I felt stupid because I had bought the entire package. I truly felt sorry for him that that crazy young woman made up those lies about him. I even felt sorry for Hillary, and THAT is unique. As Harlan said about himself, I found that I have changed a numer of my opinions, as I gather life experience. Looking back, I can see that the Monica thing was nothing, less than nothing. Clinton was a good President. But it was on his watch that the NAFTA/GATT debacle was established. We must take responsibility for an equal share in our own screwing-- the whole deal was a bi-partisan fuck up. Bush didn't do it. But neither did he UN-do it when he got into office. If you'll note, Kerry never promised to dismantle those unconscionable acts that devastated the American worker either. When people decried the loss of jobs in America I was shocked that they tried to blame it on Bush. Of COURSE jobs were lost when the big automobile manufacturers sent their jobs overseas. Why WOULDN'T they outsource? They could pay people overseas six bucks per day rather than thirty-six bucks an hour. All of the Corporations that closed factories in America did so because our government sold us out. Booming good business for Corporate America, a scourge for the American worker. But no one will do anything to stop it.

There are exceptions but I think Bush has done a good job. I believe we'll be better off in four years than we are today. Because we stepped up and took Saddam out we are perceived as a nation that will follow through. It is always better to negotiate with other nations who have learned they can bank on predictable outcomes. Qaddafi turned over his nukes because he could predict our future response based on our past behavior. He didn't want a fight because he saw what happened to Saddam.

Tuesday's vote, giving the President a mandate will also strengthen our position in the world. A majority of American voters endorsed him, that's a loud statement to the rest of the world that we believe in what we're doing.

We've always been the ones to fight for those who cannot defend themselves. "Those to whom much has been given much shall be required". Helping the oppressed people of the world to establish democracy is a worthy and noble endeavor and Bush is right to try. He is also correct that in places where people have freedom, where the people govern themselves there is more of a chance for stability. Even in Israel-- if they could establish a Palestinian state where the Palestinians could have their own land and government there would be a chance for peace.

Mostly, I think all people everywhere are the same; they just want to live their lives and not be fucked with.


Are we the police of the world? I think we must be. We are the greatest, most powerful nation on Earth. If we don't protect the defenseless no one will. I am ashamed that we did not go on the offense in Europe immediately when we learned the plight of the Jews. We SHOULD have rushed in full force, without hesitation.

I wish we had the resources to go to Africa now to help those people as well. "With great power comes great esponsibility"...do any of y'all know where that came from? I don't recall. We ARE our brothers keepers. When we see unarmed human beings slaughtered, tortured or oppressed we should do whatever we can to help them overcome those who would harm them.


Bush is a sincere soul. Y'all will have four years with him. After that y'all will get your turn at bat again and we'll probably have 4 or 8 years of Hillary. I think we'll be fine in any case. I really do.





NOW FOR AN UPDATE-- AKA tedious monologue of Cindy's saga...



There is a new case to add to my report. This one didn't require any effort on my part. I local girl around 12 years old was accused by Low of having drugs in her locker. This seems to be a pattern for him.; he appears to set up one kid to get him/her to say things against another kid who was his (Lows) actual target all along. In this case, Low allegedly claimed he had brought in a narcotics dog from a neighboring county that had " alerted on her locker three times". School officials reportedly said they had no dogs in the building at the time Low states the search was conducted and indicated Low had no idea which locker belonged to the little girl in question. He wanted to interrogate the child and her father ( who is from California and didn't just fall off the turnip truck like most folks Low gets to harass) told him to hose off. He told him that his daughter had legal representation and had been instructed to say nothing. Then Low told him he wanted her to "pee in a bottle". Again the father said that wasn't going to happen until her attorney told her she had to. He said Low was pretty pissed off.



Low ended up taking the case to a Juvenile Justice Officer from another county, THANK GOD they went to a shared Juvenile Justice system here recently. Before that we had a local guy who served as the Juvenile Justice officer and he was on the second floor in the courthouse with Low and the other cast of characters. The new Juvie officer is apparently qualified and unimpressed with lying cops. I suppose the reason Low was caught so neatly and entirely was he was under the misguided impression that all officers of the law would believe anything that issues from the mouth of another cop. In this case Low allegedly lied to that officer and to the District Judge in a sworn complaint. THIS District Judge is the real McCoy, I've seen him on the bench and he goes by the law, period. NOW the father of the little girl has the documents and witnesses to prove what happened and to make a case against Low for aggravated perjury and false report to a peace officer. He's going to be taking his case to the grand jury. I'm going to give him the information in my report to add to it for background and to establish a pattern. Maybe something will break loose. I finally got a phone call from one of the federal entities I sent the report off to. He said they will be delving into it. He also says he holds the people with badges to an even higher standard than he does just anyone off the street. He said if they're doing what I believe they're doing his department will find out and they will be punished.



I'm starting to feel relieved.



The dad of the girl said also said he had worked with some federal agents in homeland security in Austin and he knew a lot of people in that branch of the government. He said he told them if anything happens to him or to his teenage son they need to take it as a sign of how bad things are in Mason County. He said he is afraid they might do something to him or his son who drives . He asked me if I am afraid too. I told him I pay attention to my surroundings more now and I wouldn't pull over on a County road for any of those cops.

2008: Rodham-Clinton/Obama.

Can the US elect a woman AND a black man at the same time?

Is Obama even eligible? (is he old enough? He looks young.

Anyway, for whatever it's worth.....

Todd: Get off the cross; there are better uses for that lumber. No one is persecuting you or accusing you of anything. We are displeased with the current leadership and direction of the Republican Party. However, I am also quite displeased with the Democrats, as is America, apparently. Don't take it so personally. We all know you're a good guy, so please relax.

PAB

rally round the party, boys

I loved PAB's stirring post, too.

A fine local columnist said much the same thing:

http://www.oregonlive.com/news/oregonian/steve_duin/index.ssf?/base/news/1099572958286170.xml

May I be the first here to propose a Democratic ticket for 2008: John Edwards and Robert F. Kennedy, Jr.

(I'd prefer Howard Dean for the top spot, but his image has already been poisoned by the perfidy of the media. . . .)

How they did it
Thank you, PAB, for your eloquent comments re: the Democratic Party. I think you should draft it in the form of a letter and send it to them, perhaps sans expletives. I think you're right on the money. Here's something else they need to do. I'm going to go out on a limb here and give my theory of how the Republicans won. I believe others have latched onto this, but I was thinking about this the other day, and I haven't heard any experts' thoughts on the matter. One, for years Pat Robertson and the Christian Coalition, along with a clandestine group known as the Committee for National Policy, have slowly but surely highjacked Christianity for the Republicans. Robertson routinely sent out voter guides to churches, telling the congregations who they should vote for based on how much of a Christian the candidate was. These choices were invariably Republican. Never mind the fact that many Democrats are devout Christians; what Robertson was telling the world is that to be Christian is to be Republican and vice versa. Next, they used these smokescreen issues of gay marriage and stem cells to galvanize any Christian fence-sitters and possibly quite a few Democrats to vote for Bush, even though the gay marriage thing isn't as important as putting food on the table and keeping our sons and daughters from getting car-bombed in another country. What the Democrats need to do is win these people back by reminding them why they were liberal in the first place, by using the scriptures that PAB mentioned and by trying to win back some of the media outlets, especially talk radio. The secular liberals will always be a minority, there's no way around that, but if the Dems can use the same methods that the Republicans used to brainwash the electorate to undue some of that damage, we may have a fighting chance.

That's just my two cents, anyway.

For those that voted for Kerry, you must read this. For those that voted for Bush, you're welcome to read it, also. But, you probably won't agree with it.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/g2/story/0,3604,1343956,00.html

It's not the end of the world

Todd, first. Todd, we are probably in the same economic situation, and I respect your views. I don't share them, and honestly, I look at how much money I have, and I wonder if it would hurt too much to be taxed a bit more so that there can be more teachers in schools, more police on the street, more regulation of corporate America (look at what Spitzer is doing in NY, for gosh sakes!), and more food and shelter for the poor. I believe corporations do not have our best interests in mind, despite what the commercials on TV say. I believe they are interested in good customer service only because it allows them to make more money. I further believe that government does not have that for-profit interest, and that's why government should be tasked, and not private industry, with handling those services which involve helping people make decissions about their lives, and foot the bill when it's too much for them to reasonably handle on their own. Like Health Care. Social Security. Prisons. Etc.

LOOK WHAT HAPPENED TO OUR NATION BECAUSE WE HAD PRIVATIZED SECURITY SERVICES AT AIRPORTS ON 9/11.

In my view, reckless privitization is irresponsible.

Yes, I want to be taxed more. I can volunteer all I want to help a few people out, but if everyone had to pay more taxes on luxury items, or their incomes when they're pulling down six figures or more, then so be it. I believe it does more good than me helping an illiterate person to read, or fostering cats.

I know your views have merit. Many (obviously) share them. And I do not like big government...but I do like responsible government, and I feel it should be as big or as small as it needs to be to get the job done. We just have to decide what job it should be doing.

Everyone Else: Let's get over it. Bush was elected. He's my President for the next 4 years. We don't have to agree with him, but we have to accept him. Don't let the animosity blind you like the Clinton-haters were blinding by Monica. Keep fighting, and figure out what you can do in the next election to make sure your views are heard. When I think how much I didn't do this time to get the word out, I feel guilty. Next time, I'm going to volunteer, and I'm spreading the word.

And to come back to Todd: Your posts are consistently well-thought out and I enjoy your company here. Reasonable people can disagree without rancor. Except Frank and Rob.

Just kidding, guys.

-Keith

Goodnight Nurse!
To quote Abbie Hoffman from years gone by: "God is white, eighty years old and extremely Republican". To prove what the new spin is, Rove + Co. have hacked the Newsweek site with: http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/041104/nyth186_1.html. But for the nay sayers check out: http://www.nytimes.com/2004/11/05/opinion/05krugman.html?ei=5006&en=abb533bc6cfdc7c7&ex=1100235600&partner=ALTAVISTA1&pagewanted=print&position=

Sorry about the linkage, but I was too busy downloading the new Eminem CD to form my own coherant thoughts. We now return control of this website to Todd + the Toddlers.

This political thing is getting ugly...:(
lighten up, Todd, Edward! Yeesh.

(Interesting that the conservative comes from a "liberal" state...and vice versa!))

It seems to me that while the electorate is evenly divided on MOST issues, religion, not reason, was what tipped the balance on Tuesday. I was listening to NPR this morning (thurs) and some of the commentators said the "values" thing was what settled it in Ohio. God seems to have been defined as a Republican.

Religion isn't going to go away, regardless of whether you or I believe in it, and it is a big motivator for a lot of people. Why should the Republican Party's extremist wing have a monopoly on spiritual issues? I do not think so called "Christians" obsessed with homophobic rhetoric are really being Christian in the sense of following Jesus (who had a LOT more to say about money than sex!) The real problem is religious fanaticism, not religion per se. People don't think clearly about the political implications of their faith (in the 19th century, so-called "faith based" groups were involved in the anti-slavery movement, which was NOT conservative. It was RADICAL!) They just define faith as blind pre-digested scriptural literalism mixed with TV-preacher rhetoric.

I don't blame Todd for driving an SUV if he has a real NEED for one. Sometimes you have to have four-wheel drive (it really helps in icy places in winter for instance), and many people actually USE the tow capacity and cargo space. What I object to is SUVs purchased as status symbols and used for solo commuting. What does Arnold Schwarznegger need nine Hummers for? (At least he is supposed to be converting one to hybrid.) Just wanting a vehicle to match your movie-star ego is NOT a good reason for buying a hulking, gas-wasting monster.

(When I see ads saying things like "$5000 INSTANT REBATE!" I think, maybe the dealer should offer to throw in that little compact car at the back of the lot nobody wants - "Buy a New Truck and Get a Used Geo Metro Absolutely Free!" Hey, you could tow it home. Easily.)

Um, Ed, where is the evidence Hitler was a Christian? Even if he was, he wasn't a *good* Christian - not by my definition. What he did was capitalize on centuries of anti-Semitism among German Christians and get the churches to (mostly) go along. That doesn't mean Hitler himself really believed in Christianity.

OK - i've had my $0.02 - I think we should call a halt to the political crud, period. This is Harlan's "virtual house" - notice he's been staying away today? I don't blame him.

Talk about *anything* else. What you're reading, what you're doing, what Ellison book is your favorite, your plans for Thanksgiving/Xmas/Chanukah/Kwanzaa, whatever.

Moping about Bush's win and flaming each other for voting Democrat/Republican isn't going to solve any real-world problem. It's time to move on, think about what to do next, and above all keep this board civilized.

thanx
Kristin
(Other things HE stands for : High Efficient (as in washing machines and detergent.) Front loaders save water&energy!

Chuck,

No need for sackcloth & ashes. My post re Buchanan on Kerry was meant solely as an FYI.

Bests,

--tr

People often don't know what's in their best interests until it's too late. Perhaps when more jobs are outsourced overseas, the conservative tide will turn. It will require great restraint for the rest of us not to say, "I told you so."

(By the way, I am nonpartisan, not a liberal or a conservative).

First, a little comic relief for us frustrated liberal elites:

http://idisk.mac.com/glwebb-public/new_map.jpg

It would be funnier if it wasn't true.


Second, I'm not quite sure what Todd was reacting to on this board, but I think his post does bring up one interesting point. Many of us (I'm talking about liberals here) look at George Bush as some mixture of Father Coughlin, Mussolini and Mr. Magoo. We see him as genuinely immoral, maybe even outright evil. Therefore, we can only assume that anyone who supports him can be described the same way. What we need to understand is that many of the people who voted for him simply don't see him that way. They wouldn't have voted for him if they thought he was the comic book villain that I think he is. Let's always keep that in mind.

Hey, Todd Cassel! Let me pry that window open once more!!!
First, at your earliest convenience, I'd suggest you look up the definition of "conservative", 'cause, brother, you ain't. Second, drop the bullshit I'm-being-persecuted-for-my-beleifs tone; your life experience is a far cry from your betters who have suffered and died so their children have the basic rights that they themselves were denied. Third, stop watching fox news, its got you six shades of confused-as-fuck. However, I am here to help! When someone holds a false belief and is confronted with evidence to the contary-if that false belief is not underminded, but instead strengthened we call it "Cognitive Dissonance". It's the rational behind women who stay with men who beat them, druggies whose habit consume them while their world crashes down around them and how people like you justifiy voting for w. Your post was a protacted excercise in a fundamental lack of critical and analytical thinking skills. Examples? Read on: You maintain bush supporters are suffering because liberals hate Christians, but, by you on admission, you state several of your friends who are devout Christians voted for Kerry (see definition of CD above)! bush a good Christian? Yeah, well, so was Hitler!!! No wonder the founding fathers were so skitish about the whole church/state deal. This whole arguement is misdirection. There is nothing Christ-like in this adminstrations acts or deeds. Besides no one, liberal or otherwise, has ever stated that the free expression of religion should be curtailed (displaying the Ten Commanndments in a public building doesn't count any more than someone raping your wife and claiming you're against his right of sexual self expession does. You follow (didn't think so!)? Your next delusion is that you've confused your "high paying job" with being a member of the "wealthy few". The wealthy few are those in the 10% that own over 90% of this nation's wealth (it doen't take a String Physicist to figure out that that is to a free society's determent) and that doesn't include you! You will figure it out when your job is outsourced to bum fuck India. Hell Todd, you could live in that SUV and survive a few weeks on your little zoo. I don't hate you Todd, nor am I angry at you. It just disgusts me to see people who are to stupid to see that they are being preyed upon by these snake-oil salesmen. But rest assured Todd my lad, we are all going to suffer because of these sociopathic thugs.
Edward King

In some odd way the left did win a victory. It looks like Ashcroft might step down, possibly be replaced by Rudy Guiliani. Colin Powell will step down too. This might be the start of the Bush downfall.

The right will go bats.

Then, Bush has this press confab and seems to bless Arafat. The right wing Jewish vote and the right, church goons had to shit in the collection tray on that one.

-----------

Dawn Of The Dead sells two million dvds! Moral values, eh? This country is confused.

My Bigoted View
Todd,

You're being just a trifle disingenuous when you rail against liberals for our epithets. The Bush campaign purposely sent messages laced with hatred to the radical religious right whether you like it or not. Rove and his cronies knew how to mobilize the anti-gay vote, and that's what happened (I've heard the phone ads; they are astoundingly offensive). Also, telling people across the Bible belt that John Kerry, a practicing Catholic, would ban the Bible if elected was another peace of unabashed fear-mongering genius that your team engaged in. The politics of fear certainly ear-marked the Bush campaign's anti-Kerry message, and it apparently sold like hotcakes in the heartland.

And if you don't like to hear our anger, Todd. Just ask who ran the negative campaign. Here's a quote from the Washington Post:

"Three-quarters of the ads aired by Bush's campaign have been attacks on Kerry. Bush so far has aired 49,050 negative ads in the top 100 markets, or 75 percent of his advertising. Kerry has run 13,336 negative ads -- or 27 percent of his total. The figures were compiled by The Washington Post using data from the Campaign Media Analysis Group of the top 100 U.S. markets. Both campaigns said the figures are accurate."

So go ahead and tell us we are villifying conservatives, but the truth seems to be hanging out someplace other than where you are.

In the northeast, where we have actually experienced both gay marriage and terrorism, we voted as a block for Kerry. 75% of New Yorkers voted for Kerry, and they were the ones who suffered in 9/11. Magically though, Bush was able to make people in the heartland more afraid than people on the East Coast.

I'm sure you voted for Bush for the very best reasons you could muster: you believe in the war with Iraq; you have a corporate job; you are desperately in need of tax relief and you can't afford to pay your estate tax someday. But you are, sadly, in bed with all the stereotypes on your list: the Kluxers, the pro-life maniacs, the Tim McVeighs, the Fat Cats, the Christers and the predatory corporations who take our jobs overseas. Just as I am in bed with all the Communists, the Homosexuals, the Black Nationalists, the Social Engineers, the ACLU, the Elitist Intellectuals, the Abortion Doctors, The Pornographers, the Trial Lawyers and the Dissolute Hedonists. (Gee, now that I write it out, I see that I actually prefer my list of stereotypes to yours. Todd, if you can think of some more negative ones for liberals, help me out).

But Todd is right about one thing. The liberals should stop whining! More people voted against this president than in any other election in our history. We successfully mobilized our voters. It was simply not enough. Bush started a war (on false pretenses), and it's very difficult to unseat a leader in time of war. Bush also used fear, prejudice and negative campaigning to excellent effect (as demonstrated above).

But seriously, liberals, take a lesson from the conservatives who invest in the change that they desire. Are any of you willing to make a real sacrifice to bring about change? Face it! Bush is our own dark shadow--we are all fat consumers, and we all want the comforts that a Bush world will provide. Kerry was really just another shadow of Bush too. He was owned by similar interests, and he said many similar things. He was really for the war, until expedience told him otherwise. Noam Chomsky pointed out that if any politician talked like Kerry in the 1960s, he would have been considered "the hawk of hawks." Kerry also believes in the death penalty and was against gay marriage. To truthfully describe him, he was a big business progressive and not a liberal. He was advocating for a world vision that was a mere scintilla away from the world vision of George Bush, and in no way strove for a more visionary future.

So now we can stive for real change and not fake change. This is a great opportunity for us all.

Steve Dooner

Todd and Duane:

You know, I'm conservative, libertarian actually, but I don't see any offense at the problems that so many here are venting on. Their country, their right, n'est-ce pas?

They have every right to bitch, just as much as all the Republicans incessant whining about the "corrupt" Clinton regime. And note: I AM NOT, REPEAT NOT, SAYING EITHER OF YOU ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR ANY OF THE CLINTON BASHING.

But, before you whine and take yer football home, tell me where you see your names in any of their rantings or where the Webderlanders hold you both accountable. It's just words guys, only carrying the pain you accept in their passing.

And, if you're choosing to stand and take the punch, don't show me the bruise later to illict sympathy.

Ashcroft's gone, Powell soon to be. Other members of cabinet will be replaced in the months to come. Let's see if Shrubaya takes to heart the need of national reunion, possibly even inviting a few Democrats to sit at the decision making table. He didn't have the foresight to make Sam Nunn Director of the CIA, but he might have second thoughts about future postings.

I'm waiting to see how it all shakes out.

Scott

It's OK Todd
Hey Todd,

Don't worry about it. The number one rule of stand up comedy is: know the room you're working in. And believe me, there is no difference between this board and a microphone in front of a brick wall with a spotlight. We're all just riffing and 99% of it is used deep fryer drippings.

(Including this post.)

Unlike the vast majority of posters on this board, I AM a Republican, I AM religious, I AM (or AM NOT) half a dozen other things that people here would vehemently disagree with. Do I let it bother me?

Well, yeah, on occasion, when I read some statement that makes my blood boil. But then I just remember something: When it comes to this board, we're all a bunch of high performance vehicles running around on a HotWheels(c) track. This medium has its limitations. And since very few of our last names are Hemmingway, Asimov or Ellison (or O'Rourke, for that matter), we don't always have the necessary literary tools to convey our EXACT meanings on hot button subjects. Add to that the fact that since most of us have to type out our little screeds with one eye out for the boss, and you've got the potential for Trouble In River City.

I cannot speak for whoever it was who lumped you in with a group of undesirables, but it sounds like he was trying to make a point he either didn't have time or the words to make succinctly. It's like a 5 year old blurting out "Aunt Emma sucks!" because he doesn't have the ability to explain how the woman's cat freaks him out or that the house smells funny, or because Uncle Earl can't seem to keep his pants on.

In closing, Why am I blowing my lunch hour worrying about this crap?

My political window closes again, thank goodness, with one final comment:

Apparently I am a member of the religious right, gay-bashing, blinded-to-issues-voting-on-personality, moral-majority, abortion doctor murdering, stupid, bigoted clan of people who doesn't understand the dangers of war and who deserves to suffer rains of plague for re-electing Bush.

And you call us bigoted?

I am a jew who is no longer religious now that my rabbi father and rebbitzen mother have been dead for 23 and almost 1.5 years respectively, forcing me to review my judiasm more from nostalgia of growing up in such a house rather than any firmly held beliefs. I am pro-abortion as long as it is not used for birth control. I don't care about gay men or gay women and what they do in their bedrooms, bathrooms and kitchen floors; it's not my thing and I don't preach my sex to them as long as they don't preach their sex to me. I'm not stupid....you may think so because of a narrow-minded fixation with thinking that anyone who voted for Bush is not stupid...but I'm not.

Uh, oh, I do drive an SUV! I bought my first one last year when I realized that living in the desert and moving into a new house was a lot easier when I had a Ford Explorer to truck in the cactus and wood and crap from art shows and other shit I could never fit into my car. Uh oh, I do have a job that pays me enough to place me in the upper middle class (or as Liberals would say: the wealthy few....hah). Uh oh, I do eat food so I guess when I have a huge hunk of pizza in my cheeks I can be accused of gorging myself while masses are starving in the streets.

I'm married, have two pugs, two bourkes and a lovebird, a great new house in a beautiful part of North Phoenix, two cars, a good paying and extremely pressure-packed job and I voted for George Bush. But, according to many of you, my vote means I am of the religious-right moron class of middle America numbskulls (even though I've lived on both coasts and was born in Miami Beach).

And you call us bigoted.

It's funny, the people that I know who go to church all voted for Kerry. The people I know who not only attend church, but participant in many functions and even lead groups in church, all voted for Kerry. Whassup?

Sorry you are all so sad this week. Try to enjoy your life....after all, Bush and his cronies are lurking around the corner right now to grab your civil liberties, burn your books and DVDs and draft you into a war so that they can soak up all the planet's oil while continuing to raise our gas prices.

Yeesh. And you call us bigots.

Signing off from further political blathering once again, since these boards are so much more fun when that's taken elsewhere, I remain you resident conservative -TODD

Tony,

Wouldn't ya know? I got that bit of Buchannan misinformation from a friend of mine. I asked him where HE got it, and it turns out he heard it on Air America.

Damn. I am disappointed in myself, and in Air America. If you say you can do better than the other guys, then you should.

Wearing sackcloth and ashes,

Chuck

the yolk's on us


SELENE:
speaking of "unintentional slapstick artists" (and cocksuckers) your last post reminds me of a horrible 4 year period in the history of Minnesota in which a certain Jesse Ventura governed. It was kinda funny at first (not really), but at some point I realized that only the REST of the country was laughing at "the Body" while all of Minnesota cringed. That was unpleasant times.

other:
I've been under the impression all thses years that "political correctness" was a term given life in the Liberal camp, one that now, on occasion, bites one and all in its collective arse. Was I, am I, is I mistaked?!

Respectfully,

Neal

France and naughty expressions
Yeah, I know I should stick it out and fight if I was a really good American. Since I live a pretty hand-to-mouth life, chances are that I'll have to do that by default anyway. But at the same time, I'm serious: I'm actively seeking ways to get out of here and going someplace where I can openly express dissent.

What would I do? Why, play jazz of course! God knows the audiences would probably be more appreciative there. I have a piano player friend who lived many years in Den Haag. He came back here to take care of his elderly parents, but wishes to return to Den Haag ASAP.

I'm not interested in living in high style. I'm happy to live like a peasant. Hell, I *am* a peasant.

Mostly, I just want to go to Europe. I want to go SOMEPLACE before I die. Seems like now is a pretty good time. Gotta git while the gittin's good.
________________________________
Speaking of shocking utterances of naughty expressions: hanging out with jazz musicians, it's "motherf*****". Sometimes, it's meant as a compliment; other times as an epithet. It is often shortened to "Mutha" but we all know that's only half-a word. If you think about it literally....ICk! How disgusting. Still, it gets bandied about by pretty much every player I know (unless they happen to be Christian or academics and even the academics let their hair down if they know the Dean's out of earshot).

Thank You, P.A.B.

Thank you for the post on 11/03/2004, “Time For a Change.”

One thing, my friend. Never apologize for expressing your views, especially when you’re telling the truth

Best wishes.

You wanna know what a cocksucker is?
You really wanna know, pally? Because I deal with them all the time and there's not one of them you'd want to kiss on the mouth.

A cocksucker or a cocksmoker or a cockwrangler or any of the fifty-thousand variations on the same fucking theme is an individual of any age, sex, orientation or creed. It's somebody who doesn't mind taking a shot in the mouth to serve his or her own ends. It's someone who degrades themselves willingly in the pursuit of some greater goal by providing great pleasure to someone who would otherwise pass them by unnoticed. Sometimes they love to do it, often it's just part of the routine or used to compensate for a lack of skill, drive, charisma or any reasonable, logical or substantive ability.

In other words, these folks suck dick metaphorically while the rest of us are content to shake hands.

The Great Cocksucker Debate
Harlan is a master of words. It is why we are all here. If he used cocksucker, I will go out on a limb and assume it was the exact word he wanted, with the impact he wanted, with the appropriate implications, within the specific context, for that particular situation. (And, am I just deja vuing, or did Harlan already post this same response – possibly word for word?)

But the discussion seems to have drifted from the specific use of a word to a discussion about the words we throw out in frustration – without thinking. Whole different kettle of sausage. A remindation that we have to think about what we say, no matter the circumstances.

Lately, there is a horrible word that I have had to focus on ridding from my repertoire. I am in a few projects with people for whom common sense is an extraneous appendage. When I start talking to someone of a more acceptable knowledge level, I find myself saying, “Bush is an idiot.” Someone else may bring up a name and I reply, “He’s an idiot.” Somewhere in the last few months, “idiot” became my response of choice. The first few times it meant something. Now, for all the impact it has on others, I might as well be saying, “She is a hippospadian”. Your “cocksucker” or “fuck you” is my “idiot”.

About a year ago I told my son that something was “bullshit.” He doesn’t hear me use such words very often, and my point was made. If today I told him someone was an idiot, it would mean nothing to him.

However, to wrap an incredibly untidy bow around my points, I still have to say - words is fun, ain’t they?


Mike

I have faith in humans as INDIVIDUALS. The result of the election proves that humans, as a majority, should not be trusted in the slightest.

Heck, if there was ANY kind of so-called "social commentary" in DAWN OF THE DEAD 2004, it was that human beings are at their most monstrous and harmful as an anonymous, faceless mass.

Damn, I read WAY too much into these things...

I'm not crazy about Arnold either, but I do respect him for stepping up and supporting the stem cell research proposition that passed here. So at least the religious right doesn't have him in his pocket.

I wonder if more of the religious right would have stayed home if so many of these "defense of marriage" amendments hadn't been on so many ballots [especially Ohio's.] I support gay marriage, but this really wasn't a good year to make it an issue, and I really think it could have waited until 2005.

Still, the wackos consider Bush to be one of them. They connect with him more than they ever did with his father [who is Episcopal] or with Bob Dole. So they likely would have been out in full force anyway. Or at least that's what I prefer to think.

Yesterday was a bitch of a day for me, too. But not precisely because of the election. I may have posted about this before, but about two months ago, I’d heard that an acquaintance had had some health problems. I didn’t know the guy, but since I was on a mailing list where people he knew were contributors, I posted a note saying he was in the hospital. At the time, I thought this to be a decent gesture.

About three weeks ago, I ran into the guy, and asked him how he was doing—and got his bloated face WAY too close to mine to rant on about how I’d ruined his life, how I’d put his house in jeopardy, and how he’d heard from people he never wanted to hear from ever again. Accompanied with spittle and violent finger-poking of the sort Walter Matthau endured in _The Sunshine Boys_.

Since no good deed goes unpunished, it appears that the guy’s developed a severe grudge against me. He’s turned up on that mailing list, with lengthy screeds that pretend to sound like Helpful Hints for Visiting Patients in Hospital. But he doesn’t refer to me by name, says he has no idea of my motives for posting the information, and freely speculates that it was because of a desire to be a gossip, and that the gesture can only be judged by the results—which were, according to him, uniformly bad.

In short, the guy is a demented prick, and he’s obviously looking for a fight. I’m not interested in giving him one; I’m content to understand that he just wasn’t worth doing anything decent for. But, he’ll probably turn up at Philcon, so that’ll make my stay there just _woooonnnnnderfulllll_.

Now, to weigh in on the Great Cocksucker Debate. Gosh, I wish Reinhold Aman were here.

I don’t use the word much, and here’s why. There are a lot of insults that, when taken literally, rest on the presumption that sexual submission makes one less of a human being— cocksucking, buttfucking, etc. That’s just a weight of the culture, and the culture takes its insults from such things. And many are used casually, without any literally intention—like when we say that something “sucks” or “blows.”

This doesn’t mean that anyone who uses the insult “cocksucker” is a homophobe. It’s an insult, and people use it for reasons utterly unconnected to gayness or sexual submission. Now, I’ll say that something sucks, or blows, but those terms are so generally used that nobody sees them as particularly homophobic. (Look at the use of the word “prick” in a previous paragraph, for example. I’m not faulting the guy for having, or being, a penis. I’m faulting the guy for being a malign thug. The literal meaning of the insult is unconnected to the intent.)

But I usually don’t use the word “cocksucker” as an insult because, for me, it’s too specific. It echoes that power-and-sex bullshit, and I’d only use it if I’d wanted to fault someone specifically for cocksucking. I don’t mind if other people use it, and I don’t read bigotry into its use. But I just don’t use it very often.

Now, on to a less tasteful subject-- the election.

I find myself with little to add to anyone’s commentary. Among the best I’ve read are from _The Nation’s_ lineup of reliables, Doug Ireland (http://direland.typepad.com/), David Corn (http://www.bushlies.com/ ), and Marc Cooper (http://www.marccooper.com/). If they have any advice for the Democrats, it’s bound to be fairly decent and well-reasoned.

There is one note of happiness here. As disappointed as I am in Ralph Nader, and his unholy friendliness towards the New Alliance cult, I am profoundly grateful for the fact that he cannot be blamed for this debacle.

Frankly, I think the Democrats owe Nader an apology. After four years of Bush’s malign rule, and after spending $80 million to keep him out of the race, they got beaten even _worse_ than in 2000.

But my take on the election is pretty simple. And it’s not a matter of political labels; there are decent Republicans out there, just as there are craven Democrats. But the groundswell of support for Bush indicates, to me, that something very ugly that ascended during Reagan’s term has asserted dominion over our nation.

People respond to power. They like it, they admire it, they absorb the values of the powerful even when those values work against themselves. They like to see it wielded, even when they fear being its next victim. Questions such as justice, security, and the quality of life _do not matter_ as much as the thrill of watching the strong assert themselves over the weak.

And Americans have become convinced that liberals are simply not powerful. A war veteran like John Kerry is an appeaser, while a phony human tank like Arnold Schwarzenegger is a bold and decisive leader. We could talk about any number of momentary, cultural factors, like poor education and movie mythology and the like… but at root, people have a love for power that leads them into truly ugly folly.

This is one of the lessons from Dr. Strangelove, which will remains one of the great works of art for centuries to come. It’s not a matter of political labels, people: there is something truly wrong with us, as a species. We’re capable of greatness, but in many ways we are also severely, tragically, and profoundly fucked up.

Maybe the best we can hope for is protection against those who are even more severely headfucked.

Holy Crap!
Holy crap, did anyone see the article in Mother Jones? Not that it makes much of a difference now that we got Bonzo back swiveling around in his chair and yellin' "Wheeee" for another four years. Doesn't anyone comprehend that a COUNTRY is not supposed to have an unintentional slapstick artist as its leader. Verbal pratfalls are only amusing for so long before you actually wake up and realize that Moe is running the land and doing a real crappy job.
But I digress.
Go to http://motherjones.com/news/update/2004/11/10_407.htm/.
You just gotta' see this for yourself, but here's a comment.
'No, that is not a hump on the prez's back.'

The reason I cannot bring myself to employ the C epithet is not because I'm a moralist or a prude but because in listening to the Nixon tapes one discovers that the C word was one of Nixon's favorites. So every time I hear the word I flash on his ugly puss. And I don't want to have anything in common with him anyway.

I prefer archaisms myself. When I get pissed at someone I call them a HIPPOSPADIAN which both mystifies and insults.

The real damage in the election was done in the Senate. Although the Repubs still lack a filibuster proof majority (thank god), several moderate voices were replaced by more rabid right-wingers.

I feel more alienated as a citizen than I've ever felt before. As a President, Bush has committed more egregious wrongs than Nixon...and that is saying a lot! And yet a majority in this country chose to ignore all the soldiers that died in an unnecessary war, and the loss of jobs and personal freedoms.

I am trying not to take this election personally, but I imagine the people that voted Bush in as a bunch of overfed, SUV-driving, would-be moralists blinded by theology, too pig-ignorant to realize their sons and daughters may be next to die in the line of fire. Perhaps the entertainment brokers are right to refer to the Midwest as "those people we fly over." (I apologize for the bile, but damn, people!)

Steve Jarrett

"cocksucker...I hear it come out of my mouth, and I am shocked, because I am well aware that it is a word that is undeniably yoked to a form of bigotry that I utterly reject."

Y'know, that actually reads like a hard core porno version of DRAGNET.

I'm not sure that I'd want to hear a cocksucker come out of your mouth either. Damn!

(The flipside when everything in the world is literalized, eh?)

Having made that salubrious confession...

Where from Mandrake’s hat did COCKSUCKIN’ come out as a bigotry? I’m always waiting to see what bullshit inventions Political Correctness comes up with next, the illusory guilt trips it likes to contrive as it pulls figurative speech into the shanks of literal meaning. If you watch enough god damn nature shows you will learn that COCKSUCKIN’ is performed among BOTH god damn sexes of MANY god damn species, including our own. But that’s fuckin’ irrelevant, AIN'T it? Because t’ain’t meant in the literal.

Hey! Bela Lugosi said of Karloff (at least in a movie), "That cocksucker is not good enough to smell my shit!"

Now…what effect would have been LOST - I ASK you - if we presumed Lugosi meant this literally? I doubt even Ed Wood would’ve wanted to hang around him. John Waters and DIVINE, possibly; no one else.

SO, GIVE US ALL A GOD DAMN COCKSUCKIN' BREAK!

Cookie,

…no, no. Den Haag is the place to go. There they respect life, science, research, rights of choice, medical care, coverage for education, n’ gettin’ higher than Mary Poppins if that's yer puff o'wheat.

Buchanan endorsement?

It's late, and the cold medicine's kicking in, so maybe I just can't read English at the moment, but this looks to me like Buchanan held his nose and endorsed W.

http://www.amconmag.com/2004_11_08/cover.html

Bests to all,

--tr

Something to look forward to
Well, at least we're guaranteed to have four more years of great satire from The Daily Show.

Bush just got out the vote better. :(
And voters under 25 *stayed* apathetic!!! What happened to the youth vote?? I feel like hollering on some campus, "You shitheads, why didn't you VOTE!"

The Republican party has hijacked everything people care about -religion, patriotism, even the flag! (One of my mother's Christian friends said she stopped wearing religious jewelry because whe was tired of being mistaken for a Republican. "Oh, you believe in God, you must be right wing!") People vote largely on the basis of emotional passion, often over a single issue, rather than rationally. And fearmongering is a VERY effective campaign tool. "Kerry=terrorism" seems to have resonated with many voters.

The Bush wing of the party has gotten over-the-top fanatical. Many, many conservatives (read libertarian/free market/fiscal conservatives) have distanced themseles from Bush, either over foreign policy, the religion thing, or both. Liked your post, Chuck - Buchanan isn't the only one.

PAB- i LIKE the idea of us democrats taking back the "L-word" so they stop using it as an insult!! Hey, in the 18th century "liberal" meant you were pro-democracy; "conservative" meant being a monarchist! (Also, the "classical liberal" perspective is closer to what we would call an economic conservative now - John Locke, minimal government, laissez-faire and so on.) It's kind of hard to use "conservative" as a pejorative though...if only because it has too many syllables! Usually one says "right wing," but I wouldn't want to offend people like Cindy. "Left wing" and "right wing" are seldom terms one uses to describe oneself - it generally means "people to the left/right of me."

Some people in the world are hoping "Bush will mellow out this term." Yeah, sure. It's only gonna get worse.

Kristin
darn certain somebody will post something next that will make me regret using up my daily allowance here!

Susan - Your extremely generous package arrived today - many, many thanks!

Cookie,

Pull yourself together, man!

You see FRANCE as having some sort of moral ascendancy over the USA? What would you do over there? Abandon your 35 hour work week and join the Communists on strike for the right to get paid while you’re on strike? Would you grab Chirac and Schroder each by an ankle and try to keep Britain and Eastern Europe from pulling each man’s head out of the other’s ass? Or maybe you could become one of the professionally unemployed, and help drive up national debts while the rest of the European Union works hard to keep the Euro stable.

I agree that these are tough times. The entire world is terrified at seeing us take one in the ribs and come out swinging blindly in anger. As a nation we’re armed, dangerous and way off course, driving alone toward failure. It’s awful to be only one small voice among hundreds of millions, wishing society simple and peaceful and devoid of competition. It’s pure anguish to be dragged into the inexorable and maddening local catastrophes that are sprung loose and shaped by individuals but that originate and draw power from deep and unmanageable wellsprings of impersonal sociological force.

France has wonderful people in it, and very good cheese. But as a political institution it is a colossal irrelevancy. France contributes rhetoric and grand empty gestures to the international political landscape, then snipes from the sidelines as others accept risk and die for freedom. America is an energetic nation and accomplishes more good in the world than any other; it only follows that our fuck-ups are equally gigantic and especially difficult to forget.

Hang in there, sound your tiny “Yop” into the great political void and wait for the pendulum to swing.

Well, Colorado went for Bush, but then we're a mainly Republican state.

Wait a minute.

We sent a Democrat to the Senate, and one to Congress: the Salazar brothers.

Our state legislature is now has a Democratic majority for the first time since the '70s.

We are one weird-ass state.

This is not the end times. There are many true conservatives who are dismayed by Pres. Bush's Iraq and fiscal policies. It's not just the Democrats anymore.

You'e not going to believe who endorsed Kerry (not that anyone noticed):

Pat Buchanan.

Yes, THAT Patrick Buchanan. He was so against the Bush Doctrine at home and abroad he endorsed Kerry.

I don't so much fear for the country as much as I fear for the poor grunts who have the thankless job of acting as cannon fodder in Iraq. The officers that the Rumsfeld Defense Dept. has put in charge act more like advertising exceutives than they do soldiers, and our people are suffering for it. Let's hope that the Legislature manages to find their family jewels and start doing something about foreign policy before soldiers start fragging officers.

And, at least Pete Coors was defeated by Ken Salazar. Not only am I diametrically opposed to Coor's politics, but the fucker laid me off back in '96. I'm still recovering from that financial disaster. Couldn't happen to a nicer guy.

Go, Ken!

Chuck

Time for a change
Memo to the Democrats: knock if the fuck off, you useless gits. What you're doing is not working. Stop pandering to the moderate voters. They have chosen Republicans and they will fuck you every time. Your spineless vacillating and lack of charisma and vision, all in the name of wooing that elusive "undecided voter," didn't work in 2000 and it sure as fuck did not work in 2004. In fact, it has made matters worse. Absorb this into your consciousness as true and deal with it.

Get some balls. Reclaim the word "liberal" and make "conservative" the pejorative term. People suddenly care so much about "moral values"? Remind people where the moral high ground really is-- with love your neighbor (even if he's gay), with the Constitution, which guarantees separation of church and state and seeks to "secure the blessings of liberty for ourselves and our posterity." What about beating swords into plowshares? What about "a camel shall pass through the eye of a needle before a rich man will enter the kingdom of Heaven"? Turn their own rhetoric on them. It'd be easy as sin if only you found someone with passion and vision and... actually gave him the nomination, you arrant fools!

Finally, return the love of your long-suffering, oft-neglected faithful: the African Americans, the gays, the environmentalists, the urban poor, the old school lefties, the young people. Inspire them, show them you care about THEIR values and their agendas, after taking them for granted for so long in order to court demographics that will fuck you before they kiss you. It's time to remember that liberalism means caring about the little guy, caring about the planet, caring about the oppressed. This is our America too, dammit.

Until you do these things, Democratic Party, you will hang your head in defeat as you have today. And you know what? You deserve it.

A dyed in the wool liberal and chagrinned Kerry voter,
PAB

PS--My apologies for the rant. Today has been a world-class bad day, and the election was the least of it, if you can believe that. Thanks for listening or for scrolling past without comment.

Wait just a damn fool minute!!

You mean to tell me that the majority of Midwest voters were more concerned about gay marriages and other matters of moral importance?

Okay, so it's all right for the homeless to be homeless and starve, it's all right for soldiers to die in Iraq for a worthless cause, it's all right for people to lose jobs, but it's not all right for gay people to do whatever the hell they want?

Their IQ points have gone from none to negative 1000!!! What the hell has happened to this country?!? Worrying about who does what in the bedroom does not put food on tables, pay bills, or put clothes on people's backs!! Those morons need to get a life!!

(Okay, should I tell you how I really feel now?)

First, I walk into a used book store, pick up a Dan Simmons book I've never seen and you're introducing the book and I finally get the goods on why or how you discovered him; then I get your newsletter in the mail last night (hm...haven't I run out yet? What gives? Heh) Then I stream into the library here at the Red River Campus on Princess (newly renovated. You'd love the architecture) and read you in Locus. (With a second mention of this revived Weird Tales and you in it. Hm. Maybe now is a good time to start submitting to a mag like that. I have a few weird tales to tell)...

So..anyway. Hi, how are you? How do you spell that pecksniff word again, I suddenly have a good use for it; and oh, what the hell, I was thinking a few times to ask..

Did you know Derek Taylor? I think he's cool. He's teaching me to sketch, as it happens. (Metaphorically speaking.) He was about your age and spent time in L.A. Different circles, perhaps, but still.

Just curious. Answer or not. Your choice, as always.

Thanks. Have fun. I am.

Heather

This is starting to sound like a damned support group. Okay, you got me, I'm pist too. Our government (and half the public) seem to think this is a monarchy. I felt that finally we can set an example for the rest of the world, show them how to depose a tyranical leader the proper way. But I gotta give 'em credit, they ran a hell of a campaign. Oh well, we did our job in PA. Maybe a revamping of the electoral college is in order.

Shit, it's over. Can't be helped now. I've often wanted to get more into political art anyway. Now I'll have ample material with which to work.

Oh, yeah. What's up with PHILCON? Dec. 10 right? No Harlan? Damn, I'm not running around dodging costumed freaks (and I say that with much affection) all night without seeing some of my heroes. Yeah Aldiss is great but he didn't make me a better human being. If I go, I fear I'll be in the bar all the time.

When I get bored someplace, dipsomania soon creeps over me.

So who's in for getting tanked at PHILCON?

Johnny H.

REPLY TO KARL W.:

Sir:

Do not, kindly, play "politically correct" word-games with me.

It only makes me cranky.

I'm even LESS politically correct when you make me cranky.

We BOTH know, that means YOU know as well as IIIIIII know, that my use of the word "cocksucker" was no more literal than my use of the words "shithead" or "asswipe" or "piss-ant" or "douche bag" or "Nazi kike-slaughtering storm trooper" or the ever-popular "dickweed," sometimes Bowdlerized into "dickwad."

You know it. I know it.

There is nothing even vaguely referentially homosexual in my use of "cocksucker," because as we all know, women as well as men as well as lonely airedales are suckers of cocks. And as, in my view, there is nothing derogatory in the act of sucking a cock, male female bisexual or airedale, unless the sucker is being held at knife- or gunpoint by the suckee, it is no more odious and defamatory than, say, imbibing a 7-Up from a bottle.

You know it, and I know it.

So. Since the assumed stance of "being affronted" is bullshit, which you know and IIIIIII know, what we're talking here is your shitheaded attempt to whip a little presumtive homophobia on me for a casual use of a word no more literal than when a woman calls a guy an "asshole" or a guy calls a woman a "bitch."

Neither you, nor I, nor anyone else on the planet REALLY means the recipient of the insult has a head made out of fecal matter, or that s/he is literally a human formican that is urinating, or that said miscreant has genitalia made of empty lot weeds, or...

But I belabor.

YOU know the word "cocksucker" was spewed in the same incendiary manner as when YOU last leaned out the window of your car and told the driver of the SUV that just cut you off, F U C K Y O U ! Were you really offering to perform sexual ministration or were you, in the heat of the moment, randomly picking a common-phrase from the grab-bag of EPITHETS-SANS-THOUGHT swirling and available to all of us when we're pissed off? (This phrase, please note, has nothing to do with my urinary tract, which is just peachyfine, thank you for asking.)

Now, you Nazi kike-slaughtering piss-ant shithead, would you like to get on my otherwise jammed dance card for yet another gavotte?

Or, in the alternate, a simple, shamefaced, "I should've known better and not acused you of homophobia, sir, I regret my words, and I deeply apologize," will suffice.

Respectfully, Harlan Ellison

I need my Harlan buddies at this time. What a shock to see such a fascist shift in our country. I am stunned, and feel really alone. This country has gone fucking insane! Sure, elect the Chimp in a squeeker, but a landslide? And then turn our Congress and Senate into a den of vipers? Gay bashers and flat earthers at the pulpit of fear and loathing.

Maybe Gore Vidal is right--the banana republic is around the corner.

And I was excited about Chomsky being on Maher this friday. I am sure the honorable Professor will sound the warning of the coming dark period.

Time to hide.

Todd, thanks for lining up with the gay bashers and Bible twits.

I certainly can't speak for Harlan, nor, to state the obvious, does he need me to, but the chiding on his use of the word "cocksucker" as a pejorative resonates with me personally. Over the last couple of years, I have begun to take note, with considerable dismay, of my own usage of that word in anger. I hear it come out of my mouth, and I am shocked, because I am well aware that it is a word that is undeniably yoked to a form of bigotry that I utterly reject. I have tried to discipline myself to substitute a sound-alike such as "eggsucker," but the reality is that in situations where I have the presence of mind to make such a substitution it is usually the case that I can easily take the obvious next step and dispense with invective altogether in favor of rational discourse.

That's the point, I think. Invective inhabits a separate universe of discourse that is lexically divorced from calmer modes of speaking. When we shift into the invective mode, there is a code-shifting that goes along with that. Words are chosen as much for their cadence as for their meaning, and ultimately become little more than pegs on which to hang our anger. The rage that boils up from deep and malignant reservoirs of malice in the reptile brain is pre-rational, which makes for an awkward fit when such emotions are conjoined with language in any case. It almost doesn't matter, in a sense, what words we choose, which is why W.C. Fields can substitute "Godfrey Daniels" for "God damn" with scarcely any diminution of the emotional content. When we call someone a "bastard," their actual parentage is the last thing on our mind, and when we call someone a "son of a bitch," we certainly do not mean to suggest an actual canine lineage.

Having said that, words do have meanings, and we are responsible for the words we use. That's why it troubles me to hear myself use a word like "cocksucker" in anger. And yet, the very fact that it does trouble me should be, it seems to me, a clear enough indication that I am not a homophobe by nature. At the same time, it does, I think, indicate that I have been poisoned by the stain of homophobia just the same. Even as I deplore bigotry directed against gays, I must acknowledge that on some level the bigots have succeeded in infiltrating my language with their vocabulary to my detriment.

The compromise I have reached with myself is to maintain the struggle to clean up my act while stopping short of beating up on myself unduly for each and every lapse. We shape our language, and our language shapes us. The quality of the struggle, I tell myself, is what diminishes or ennobles us, not the specific utterances that are the by-product of the struggle.

Steve J.

Canada
Paul Leslie posts, "The only thing keeping me going today is this little fantasy I have.Try it on.
"California,Oregon,Washington,and the blue states around the Great Lakes cede from the union and join Canada."

That would be great, but even if we got away with it we'd have to deal with those damned uppity folks in Quebec who haven't conceded that they're no longer French citizens and haven't learned to play nice in the same sandbox with everybody else.

What Jay said
Hear, hear, Jay. As I am fond of telling people when they start blathering that love it or leave it nonsense: If you love your house, but one day you see a cockroach skittering across the kitchen linoleum, do you move? Or do you squash the little fucker and all his little friends? That's what makes this country great. Not that the Republicans are in power, and are steadily turning this nation into a one party state, but that our founding fathers gave us the ability to peaceably change the things we do not like.

Cookie
It's a gray day, I'll admit. And it may, in fact, be the beginning of the end of the great American experiment. Every great society on this planet died out because at one moment it felt exclusive of the will of those who did not live inside its borders and decided its own interests were justification enough to destroy or exploit its neighbors.

But we have to work from the inside. We have to protest. We have to support that side of the system we believe in, because if you don't, that's one less voice of reason among a growing, conservative, bigoted and elitist bunch of evil fucking monsters.

Our work just got a hell of a lot harder, but I'm pissed and from here on out, I will work to rebuild a Congress beginning at the local level. It will take literally years, but the young men and women coming out of college are the Congresspersons and Assemblymen and City Councilpersons, Mayors, Governors and Judges of the future. I voted for 3 Republicans along with 3 Democrats and a Libertarian because I believed in their politics. Not all of my picks won, but as Harlan said - I will make it perfectly clear to the winners that I'll be watching them all.

If this election bothered you enough to want to leave, what would disturb you enough to rise and fight?

Today is a day to lick our wounds and let Chimpy McFlightsuit have his cake and pudding before Laura puts him to bed with a storybook.

Tomorrow we begin the movement to protect what's left and rebuild.

Nader
So where did all the Nader voters go? Last time around he took almost 4 million votes. This time, not even half a million. He was supposedly hurting the Dems. But if 3 million former Nader supporters voted for Kerry this time, then that means a helluva lot of Republican voters came out of the bleeding woodwork. Were the Democratic Nader-bashers just over-reacting? It'd be interesting if it were possible to get some statistics on that.
But don't fret. At least the guy YOU voted for got more than 1% of the vote nationwide.

Expatriation
Folks: When I used to argue with my father about politics, he always said, "If you don't like it, leave." That takes money, that I've never had. Plus, I *like* America. I'm a patriot. I flew my flag on September 10, 2001 for no good reason other than that I love my country. I play jazz which I believe is one of America's greatest contributions to world culture. I think the US is a pretty good place to be a free woman (though with W2, I soon may not have the right to make certain medical choices for myself). I love America, but I hate what it's becoming.

I don't like it and I want to leave. I've never traveled overseas before, so this seems as good an excuse to do so as any. I don't kid myself that any place else in the world would be "safer." I'm not necessarily interested in a "safe" life anyway. I want to be someplace where liberal isn't a dirty word, but a sign of generosity of spirit and broadness of mind. My country no longer values freedom but chooses to live in fear: fear of "them" and fear of a God who would send them to hell if they don't toe the line.

I gotta get out of here. I like the idea of Amsterdam, but the fact is I speak better French than anything else. Tt's rusty, but I know enough to meet basic needs and would pick it up very, very quickly. I have a good ear for language and have picked up snippets of several from singing classical music. My son is currently studying French in school. Though I could stay comfortably numb in Amsterdam without fear of losing my worldy posessions and being thrown in the slammer, I think moving to France would be a better choice. Freedom fries with that? No, man. Make mine French.

I'm not talking about relinquishing my citizenship. I love America deeply. I don't want to divorce her. I just want a trial separation.

worlds of pain

Like many of you, I went to bed late, feeling disappointed, and got up this morning feeling even worse. It's gonna be a long 'nother four years. I still think Bush stole the election in 2000, but the results this year are undeniable: a majority of Americans clearly chose him. I'm desperately discouraged by my fellow citizens. The only (awful) hope is that things that have gotten so bad already will get so much worse that more Americans will see the light. (Already I'm hearing rumors about the reinstitution of the draft. GOOD!)

Now that the dust has largely settled, I can say I've appreciated people's stories about Hallowe'en here and on the Forums. I spent the early evening of Oct. 31 helping out at a Hallowe'en party at a nearby low-income housing project (at my wife's urging). The elderly, physically- and mentally-challenged grownups in their costumes were like children, many of them, in good and bad ways, and gave me much food for thought. Otherwise, I inwardly mourned what seemed to me the utter destruction of the joy and innocence of Hallowe'en since I was a kid and ran all over town with a buddy at age 7 and 8, long after dark, without a care or fear in the world (except when some college kids threw a body -- a bunch of clothing stuffed with papers -- out a second story window down to the walk in front of us; my buddy loved it, but I was pretty freaked out).

I'm proud of Oregon for going for Kerry by a comfortable margin. It was bigger than I was expecting.

On the other hand, we passed a real estate compensation measure that is going to wreck land-use planning and bankrupt the state government JUST TO LITIGATE ITS STATUS, never mind if it actually goes into effect. I'm fed up with the initiative petition and referendum process: it accomplished some wonderful things in the 1960s, but since then it's been hijacked by special interest groups with big money to buy petition gatherers and lying ad campaigns. It's bad enough we have ignoramuses in the state capitol passing legislation they don't understand, but it's even worse that they're passing the REALLY big and complex issues off to voters who know even less about them. There are some things we really shouldn't be allowed to vote on, certainly not as constitutional amendments.

I'm sort of pleased that Oregon's anti-gay marriage measure did not pass overwhelmingly -- something like 57-43. That's a closer margin than in the other ten states that did this. The forces of good ran a quiet, dignified TV ad campaign here; all the hysteria was on the other side. And as I've said before, all this will be a non-issue in another 15 or 20 years. My heart goes all out to all those whose lives will be made unnecessarily harder in the meantime. What a colossally stupid waste of time, money, and energy.

A couple minor observations:

-- It was amusing to see how mousey Dan Rather was last night, after having gotten burned about Florida in 2000 and the Bush memo thing this year: he was apologetic, chuckled nervously a lot . . . looked like a rank amateur.

-- I thought local sports reporting was clumsy, but boy, the hilarious verbal gaffes and bad grammar last night was the one truly entertaining aspect of the whole debacle.

A word about the death penalty. Doesn't it strike any of its supporters as odd that the United States is virtually alone among "civilized nations" in employing capital punishment? That we have mostly oppressive dictatorships as company on this issue?

When I was much younger, I was largely indifferent about capital punishment. I could go either way, and probably did. But now, quite aside from the inequality of the law as it is applied, I simply think it's a tool a civilized society should deny itself. Hell yes, I could sit on a jury and vote to send a scumball to the death chamber. But I don't think I should be allowed to express my emotions in that dire manner. I think the death penalty degrades the society that administers it, and it's got to be hard on the hapless guy who actually has to pull the switch or inject the needle.

As for not voting, a person undeniably has that right (just as I cherish "freedom of worship" as a protection for my congenital atheism -- the freedom FROM worship), and I wouldn't even gainsay a person's right to complain even if he didn't vote. It's a free country with plenty of room for free (if often extremely stupid and ignorant--when it's not well-funded and mendacious) speech.

But I simply can't extend any respect to such a person. There are important issues and candidates on the ballot at the state and local level in every election, and to use one's disgust with a national race or three as an excuse not to vote at all is . . . well, it's lazy at best and despicable at worst.

But that's just my opinion.

To the Death Penalizers,

When you guys can find a government that can fairly and equitably administer a death penalty, come and find me. By that time, I'll probably be hanging out with the Eloi.

Steve Dooner

ugh....
Wow...guess I shouldn't plan on changing my career to a political pundit anytime soon. I probably shouldn't even attempt to predict Pop Warner football games.

Like others, the only comfort I take in this is that it was decided by the voters. And hey, I hope Bush can turn it around, for the country's sake. But if he can't, I hope people are smart enough to finally realize that conservatism is bad for America. But to paraphrase Mencken...no one ever lost an election underestimating the intelligence of the American public. Oh well.

I was at least happy with what happened with some of the state level ballot measures.

As far as the death penalty goes, I don't *like* it, and know all of the arguments about how unfair it is, but it's awfully hard to feel sorry for most of the people who have to face it.

Thank you, John Kerry, for not dragging out what is in no way a close Ohio race when compared to the Florida Mess of 2000. Kerry has just conceded (even though his pit bull attorney running mate doesn't want him too....typical lawyer).

It's a shame to see so many depressed and disturbed postings on the board today. I didn't act like that when Clinton won his 8 years, and I wouldn't have acted like that if Kerry had won: because in the end, you make of your life what you make of your life. Some things may knock you down, but they will only keep you down if you allow it. You only have one life to live; you've survived a lot. You'll survive still.

Cheer up, you've got Hillary to dance with for the next four years.

Voting totals were up only slightly from 2000. Say 105 mill to 110 mill. This upsurge consisted almost entirely of Bush supporters. The threatened and promised excitement among our nations' youth did not pan out. 10% maybe in the end.

In a lot of the so-called Red states many voters listed their primary motivation and concerns for voting as not the economy or the war but 'moral values'.

I feel sick,stunned.I just can't fathom the direction the country is going in.Is reality of so little importance now that if our leader tells us the tribe is being chased by a pack of wolves and the only way to save ourselves is to drop our children and babies and leave them behind so we can slow the wolves down and run faster we will do it?Only to find later the tribe survived but has no future without its children.

The only thing keeping me going today is this little fantasy I have.Try it on.

California,Oregon,Washington,and the blue states around the Great Lakes cede from the union and join Canada.We invite all the gays,artists,scientists,and compassionate thinking people to come with us where we create a more perfect union that respects the environment and everyone has health care as well as free university education and we become the envy of the world as we get rich developing new clean sourses of energy and computer sciences.Then let the right wingers wallow in their own bigoted,backward society where they all lie to each other and screw each other over and the only buisness that keeps them going is the military industrial complex so that they have to stay in a state of continual war.

I am sick of them.

Love Ya Harlan

Sittin here spittin watermelon seeds and watching the tide come in.......Paul

On this day of darkness, despair, and damnation, we can be glad to find relief and joy in the most unlikely of places:

http://www.angryalien.com/

"Freddy vs. Jason," "Alien", "The Exorcist", "The Texas Chainsaw Massacre", "Titanic", etc. All re-enacted in 30 seconds. By bunnies.

Go. Have fun.

Sad day in Medina
I don't think I've ever been this depressed after an election. I can't look America in the eye this morning.

Besides the national tragedies, the school levy in my town lost by 125 votes. This will hurt my kids directly.

Virtually all the school levies in my area failed. One of our neighbors and closest friends will likely lose her job as the state takes over her school system. And, with the Republicans remaining in charge of the state, there's little hope that the school funding issues which have caused so many problems will be corrected.

My state put bigotry into its constitution.

I have a 16-year-old son and a 13-year-old daughter and I fear for their futures.

Tony Isabella

"You know, I'm not so sure it's the 'cocksuckers' who are out there performing all these brutal atrocities."

No, they're cocksuckers all right. Just 'cause they don't see themselves as cocksuckers doesn't mean they're not.

So it looks like Fear won out (if I may pick up the tone of Lee's post). Fear of Them. Fear of gay marriage. Fear of "wrong values". Fear of terrorists. Fear.

3.7 million people are the difference and, no matter the final tally in Ohio, said, "George Bush is our man."

I probably knew it was going to go this way and prove all my predictions wrong on Friday. That was the day I opened up the paper and saw a letter from someone who was leaning towards Bush, with mild reservations, and thought Kerry was well-spoken and looked like he could be Commander in Chief except...Iraq. She said that the media and the left were complaining that Iraq had become a "magnet" for terrorists. And she said in her letter: Good. Exactly. By keeping the terrorists occupied with Iraq, they weren't busy planning on attacking here in the US. Keep them occupied and fighting over there where US citizens weren't getting killed.

And she is right. One can't argue with that short-term solution and logic. One can try to explain that the fighting in Iraq will probably only exacerbate the already negative feelings most of the world has towards us. One can argue that we are providing a breeding ground for future terrorists, not just the ones that are fighting us now, but the ones that will fight us one or two generations from now. One can argue these things and others and it will not matter.

The terrorists are fighting over There and not over Here.

Cindy is right. It stings to see so many misguided people.

Four more years...

Well, Kerry took more than 8 states, so I'll have to eat my hat. But he didn't win, so no prancing in nude glory on my front yard. The neighbors can be relieved.

Yes, I'm disappointed, but actually relieved that the popular vote is definitive. Enough of all this polarization talk; let's accept the fact that a majority of our citizens are conservative and move ahead. We as a country should seriously re-evaluate the need for an Electoral College as well. The automatic 2 votes per state makes a Wyoming vote 20 times more powerful than a California vote, or something like that. It's a leftover from a very different time, it's causing more problems than it's solving, and it needs to go.

"Old Europe" will panic about four more years of Bush, but these are the people who no so long ago brought us Hitler and Stalin, and I think Bush's depredations in Iraq pale in comparison to the Holocaust and the Gulag. Old Europe can just sit down, and get to work on restructuring their withering socialist economies.

Kerry ran a good campaign (as did Bush), the debates were lively and intelligent, and I don't think the Democrats have anything to be ashamed of. Hopefully this re-election will continue to enervate the Left, and we can fight for the issues that really matter, like challenging corporate power and protecting the environment, and not get side-tracked on sound-bite agendas like gun control, gay marriage, and stem-cell research.

I'm guessing Kerry concedes mid-morning. It will be a good speech from the best candidate we had. We lost this one, but we'll be back in 2008, 'cause you can't run Cheney!

--Eric

Things don't seem so bleak this morning in Mason.

It stings to see so many misguided people. A thousand people voted Low. The other candidate the one who took Omar's money on a PR bond got over 800. I got more than the 20 I had hoped for. I got 70 something, I'm not sure of the exact number. It's good to get a feeling for the size of the mountain. Most people have no dealings with Law Enforcement. They believe the police are good because they are the police.


My best friend (since the 6th grade in Austin) Becky Rippy (we married brothers, she kept hers) lost her bid for 61rst congressional district in Colorado. Her candidacy showed me how stacked the deck is against good people. She was in a good place to win as the Republican candidate. She was approached by an organization pushing school vouchers. They told her they'd give her campaign $50,000. if she would promise to vote for their legislation on vouchers. Becky, in Becky fashion, told him she had nothing against school vouchers but she couldn't tell him how she would vote unless she had gotten both sides of the issue and listened to arguments both pro and con. Because she would not give her word to vote for something she wanted to first learn about, they withheld the donation to her campaign. She was branded as not a " team player" and the Republican party gave her nothing with which to run her campaign. The woman she ran against was a water expert. Becky was a human services candidate-- someone who wanted to restructure the juvenile justice system and put some counter balances on the department of social services in Colorado.

It's a sad loss for Colorado.

br>

Thank you Harlan for understanding about my right wingedness. Thank you for what you wrote.


Darryl,
For a long time now I've admired you. Your posts have always left me feeling like I've learned something. In so many ways YOU are MY hero.

Thank you for your words, all along.
:)
Your friend,
Cindy

BRAINS SHOULD NOT BE CEMENT
I never could understand why anyone would jump on Harlan, or anyone else for that matter, for changing an opinion, a belief, a point of view, as the years go by. We're supposed to know more about everything today than we did, say ten or twenty years ago, aren't we? I'd be suspicious of someone who never admits to any second thoughts about anydamnthing no matter how many decades pass. Such a person probably has a dead brain.

I find it curious that our host, who is surfeited with a sense of justice and correctness for the minorities should use the term 'cocksuckers' so readily as a pejorative.

You know, I'm not so sure it's the 'cocksuckers' who are out there performing all these brutal atrocities.

Yeah, what Rob said. Hear, hear. Got any room in the cave on Mars?

Oh God, I can't look anymore. If this were a movie, I would have walked out by now--the horror is too great...

"First you disagreed with me, and then you spent your entire post proving my point."

Dooner…PLEASE! The facts are SO clear: I merely disagreed with your disagreement regarding the agreement I refuted AFTER conceding the agreement we had on the disagreement you agreed with, but which I couldn’t agree with at the time when I disagreed with the agreement YOU couldn’t agree with.

Should I go into politics or WHAT?

Brian,

"hordes of Jesus-shouting fuckheads are determining national policy"

Y'know, only an hour ago I was mulling over this very quagmire. You look at the Red regions snaking through the South, Mid-West, and Southwest and you have to ask yourself "how the hell do you fight that?" How DO you fight a monolithic mentality that places "Moral Policy" over economic issues? That sees the WHOLE world from the doorways of a church? That hawks PRACTICAL national issues for a legal apparatus designed to tell me how to live? That ironically stigmatizes science like stem cell research and cloning as the tools of Great Lucifer! If that's the only reality they know you CAN'T reason with them. I don’t know how anyone can reason with a theocracy. But what really angers me is that it took who-the-fuck-knows HOW many decades for the Left to pick up on the bulldozer grassroots nature of the Right Wing propaganda machine; Talk Radio has been dominated by Conservatives since the Bronze Age and only in recent years have a FEW Liberals begun feeling that, well, maybe we oughtta do a little radio too! This annoying slowness for the Left to "get it", this LIMPNESS in strategy, has given the WORST contingent of the Right - the Lord’s CHOSEN, I suppose - the Final Word. I don’t know how Democrats are going to deal with that. Theoretically, with Kerry’s defeat, the Democratic party will REFORM. HOW? By building its OWN theocracy? The HORROR of it is…I’m not sure they have a choice; any more than they did pandering to Corporate America.

I’ll just go live in a cave on Mars. Most of my friends think I already do ANYWAY.

(I’ll say this, till I'm finally sleepy enough to crash. Just a side-note about Iraq and its ramifications: Bush has CONTINUALLY referred to the "freedom" of the Iraqi people; but the MAJORITY of the Iraqi people are the Shia and the Sunni. They ARE the Iraqi people. For the sake of rhetoric, of course, he continually leaves this out. Suppose they hold elections in Iraq; they choose a Fundamentalist Cleric for a candidate and he wins. What will be our role? To tell them, "oh, no. We’re not going to let you elect THAT guy." Lo and behold, any "elected" leaders in Iraq prove to be American puppets as the Middle East contended. We’re either stuck, then, with a war in Iraq that will see no end - because the majority WANTS a Muslim state we won’t allow, or an Iraqi leadership in the wake of our departure, quite likely to sympathize if not sponsor terrorism. We will have multiplied any threat Hussein could have ever been to us by the thousands. Yeah, I’ll say this: if the disasters to come prove to be as bleak as I think they WILL be, it MIGHT be better for a Republican to carry the weight and blame, presuming the less advantaged Americans survive this reign. I’d hate to see Kerry inherit Bush’s Folly, only to fail because of the inevitable. Who knows? Maybe after Bush’s second term few will want to call themselves Republican. Yeah, and I'm going to steal Christina Applegate from her underdeserving husband! Well, either way, it will be a fascinating if not horrific drama to watch. NOW I know why I didn’t get any sleep last night; NOW I know why I ain’t gettin’ any TONIGHT!)

Death penalty, Election, other things
Wasn't it Heinlein who said, "Punishment SHOULD be cruel and unusual!"

Harlan, I can understand your rage. There is a fine line indeed between justice and vengeance - the former is supposed to be "blind" and come from our noblest instincts, but the urge for revenge is primal and runs far deeper in us. It's a purely emotional reaction. Sometimes I hear about a ghastly murder and want to see the bastard drawn and quartered. The founders of America, however, set out to avoid the European traditons of ghastly tortures in the name of "justice." (Treason incurred the worst penalties - and the USA was, well, started by traitors.) Hanging was humane by their standards. Nowadays, though, we have made executions *so* humane it is the same as putting down a dog. Well, maybe that's just pragmatic. If you have a mad dog around there may be no other way to protect the innocent. But it can't be called vengeance, or even justice.

The invention of things like DNA tests (which have helped convict criminals, but also EXONERATED many) gives me pause though. I believe there are criminals who are unjustly accused and technology has helped make justice more objective. Also, the issue of racism (even unconscious racism) in the justice system remains a problem. Black people and other minorities are still FAR more likely to get convicted (unless they're named O.J. Simpson. A lot of it does have to do with socioeconomic status and whether you can afford a really good lawyer.)

So I tend to agree with Adam that the law should err on the side of life imprisonment without parole rather than execution, in order to make sure we don't do something permanent too soon and then find out the person was innocent.

That said, there have been plenty of executed criminals I didn't shed any tears for...Remember the guy in Texas who poisoned his own child with Halloween candy (and tried to blame it on the urban-legend random sadists?) I was *glad* when they sentenced him to death; I was around ten years old and the teacher was using that story to scare us! (I think he spent many years on Death Row.) I'm not exactly a bleeding heart for Timothy McVeigh either.

Yeah, death is too good for some people. My head says don't execute them, but my gut often says otherwise. It's human. I don't even blame you for changing your mind on this or other issues, Harlan - because anybody with a lifetime of experience who is totally incapable of changing his or her mind is no better than the religious fanatics who want to turn America into a fundamentalist theocracy. The best of us grow and change.

Maybe fantasy revenge is the best kind. It sure makes for some bloodcurdling fiction!

Yes, I voted. Do people on this board really *need* to be told to vote? On a board that's intelligent enough for Unca Harlan to actually post messages on? (Is the Internet still 99 percent crap?) Talk about preaching to the choir....

On "flip flopping"....senators rarely get elected President, and many pundits say the reason why is that governors come across as having a clearer stance on well-defined issues. People like Bush see things sharply in black and white. That's human nature also, but I was raised to believe in shades of gray. Maybe Kerry should have outed himself as a moderate! How about, "I vote issue by issue after carefully considering everything instead of just he "party line." You could program a robot to vote the party line! Heaven forbid though, that there should be any such thing as a pragmatic politician. It might piss off both sides (Not leftist enough, or not rightist enough) but it's still taking a STAND!!! (Seeing shades of gray does NOT mean you are amoral. It means you build your flexibility around a hard core of ethics with a line you won't cross.)

So Kerry could say, "If that's flip flopping, I'm PROUD of it!"

Sigh....What he, and other legislators, really do is probably just part of the job though - switching votes in order to build majorities. It never seems to occur to legislators to question the morality of their actions and whether they can consciously avoid acts that would be perceived as cowardice.

Just one more longwinded post,

Kristin
If we're gonna execute people, maybe we should get out the French guillotine and chop their heads off in public. Nice quick death - just, real, bloody......

130,000,000
I never thought I would see such a national turnout as tonight. AP is estimating a voter turnout over 55%. I wish I had something witty to say to sum up my emotions over the last few days, but words fail me on this roller coaster ride.

There were so many issues this year on the California ballot: stem cell, money for cops, rolling back some "three strikes" provisions... Arnold offered a quick answer by means of a thumbs-up thumbnail portrait on his voters guide, but I knew it wasn't that easy. And then there was the Big Race, which as of this typing, ain't quite over yet.

I woke up early, cast my ballot, went to work, came home and sat here in front of my computer with both the TV and radio going, refreshing as many news sites as my bandwidth would allow. I've never been this...involved before, and I'm exhausted.

And although it looks like the guy I voted for is going to pull it off, all I can offer is this whimsical summation, which I may regret typing after my brain has defuzzed and I awake rested and refreshed:

BUSH: Well, they're dusting off the hot seat for me.
KERRY: Congratulations.
BUSH: Thanks. You know what's going to happen now, don't you?
KERRY: What, they're going to pull the switch?
BUSH: No, they're gonna forget to wet the sponge.

JOHN HEATTER:

You got one of the rare defectives in the batch, kiddo. I told Susan about it when she got back from working the polling station all day (I took her to the Vote-A-Torium at 6 this morning, it's now about a quarter to 10 PM, and she only got home half an hour ago, which is a long, hard day for anyone) and she wearily said she'd send you a new tape tomorrow.

Wish you'd told us about it two years ago, and you wouldn't have had to suffer with a lame piece of merchandise this long. Either way, two years or two weks, we stand behind our products:
HARLAN ELLISON: BUSTING CHOPS AND PISSING OFF TOTAL STRANGERS FOR 70 YEARS AT THIS SAME LOCATION!

Sincerely, The Ellison Living Voice, Storm Window & Bidet Co.

Thanks, Harlan. I guess my question touched on two points, one of which was utterly unintended.

Lemme comment on the one that was intended, namely, the way we change our outlooks over the years. I'm reaching middle age right now, and I find myself torn between sticking with principles I held when I was much younger, and facing certain realities about my life and the world that work against them. (For example, this election: do I continue to believe in the desirability of democracy, when such a catastrophically malign thug like Bush gets re-elected and hordes of Jesus-shouting fuckheads are determining national policy?)

And while I could tell myself that I'm getting wiser, I'm also mindful of the prospect that, maybe, I'm getting a little _worn_ by the world. So, when I start re-evaluating my beliefs, I have to wonder about this. Am I getting wiser, or just less resistant to the consensus? Or, when I do go against the consensus, is it because of the wisdom of age and experience, or just a generally-increasing orneriness?

(The death penalty may be a good example with me, too. I still hold to the principle that the state should not have the right to deprive a human being of life. But enough truly horrific crimes sure makes immediate, public execution look really, really sweet. Someone here posted a link to a story about a woman's murder done in a profoundly evil manner, and all I wanted after reading it was to watch the perp get torn to shreds, slowly, each appendage fed to dogs while he watches. So how much longer can I hold to that principle?)


BTW, I hope you know I wasn't faulting you on alleged contradictions, flip-flopping, or intellectual capriciousness. I've seen people hit you with questions, asking why you said or done X when you'd said Y years before, and I usually think, "C'mon, dude. It's not a big deal. The man probably has his reasons."

Oh, it stings. I'll write more tomorrow. I can't tonight-- I just can't.

But I'm not quitin'.
Cindy

Fear

Noun: A feeling of agitation and anxiety caused by the presence or imminence of danger.

Verb: To consider probable; expect: I fear you are wrong. I fear I have bad news for you.


“You kill what you fear, and you fear what you don’t understand.” - David Bowie


Bonus Definition:

LITIGATION, n.
A machine which you go into as a pig and come out of as a sausage. – Ambrose Bierce

Well, a Scotty-come-lately am I, but a couple of thoughts spring to mind.

Darryl: Yours is the quintessence of the argument, mon ami. I would send that post off across your land, hoping that the many who chose to sit at home within the excuse of indifference or laziness could get a moment's guilt at their waste of a still rare privilege that so many fought and died for, so many who fought for representative freedoms being made victims on their own soil. Odd that they aren't really discussed anywhere near as often as the men in uniform when one talks about sacrifices made in the defense of American democracy.

Being free is nothing.
Becoming free is heaven.

I've sneered and called our politician crooks and worse, but in every federal, provincial and municpal election since 1981 I've done my duty. For myself, and my nation.

Here's hoping Americans, not lawyers, settle this one. Moreso, I hope the results are close enough to remind whomever that wins that there is the entirety of a nation out there, with absolutely no room for partisanship on the road ahead.

Scott

Hey, John, is the recording on side one an hour? If so, that's all she wrote. If it's only a half hour...

Harlanpalooza in the city that loves to hate you!


Brian S. brought up a get-together idea for philcon. I'm all for it, er... after I find out some details. I'm lost when it comes to conventions anymore. I'll research and check back.

And for Harlan or Susan:

I dug up an old tape I forgot about "AN HOUR WITH HARLAN ELLISON." I've always wondered but never checked before with anyone; the second side of my tape was completely blank. Empty tape hiss. It was marked "side two" and side one ended abruptly.

And no I'm not complaining. This was purchased some years ago. I don't want anything done about it, I was just wondering if it was a goof or complete.

Lend me an ear... and I'll give you otalgia.

Johnny H.

Baloney Detection
Most of us have professed a strong interest in matters empirical, in being rational thinkers. We feel we have good baloney detector kits. No matter who wins, let's use today as a litmus test for just how "rational" we are.

I find my emotions swinging wildly based on each poll and bit of data. Early exit poll numbers show Kerry winning in the big battleground states - hurray! Then I remind myself how unreliable these numbers are.

I read on line that Virginia is "too close to call" and I post a message about how, even though Bush will win it, the fact that VA is even close is good news. Except nobody is actually saying VA is close right now, just that they don't have enough information.

I will be rational. I will wrestle my hope and fear into a headlock, and try to be a good, solid man of science.

The rational conclusion: nobody knows, not even now. Not even hours before it's all over. Nobody knows. Kind of awesome when you think about it.

Voting Good
Voted this morning. It felt good.

Oh, and Todd -

I've got four kids so we know a little bit about the honeymoon mambo. Sometimes, you just gotta cool down if it's danceroom balling or balroom dancing. :)

Various
I voted a week early to avoid the lines (I'm in Miami), and I must report a two hour wait, even at that time. I've been told it's worse today. Whatever the result (and may the chimp be sent home), I think the turnout will be very high.

Harlan: I have no interest in starting a debate on the subject, but I found your opinion on capital punishment interesting. You see, my own visceral reactions to extreme crimes is exactly the same as yours, and for much the same reasons...but I remain a steadfast, informed foe of capital punishment, on the grounds that we have uncovered DOZENS AND DOZENS of folks, just in the past few years, who were sent to the death house on flimsy and/or faked evidence. It's bigger than just Randall Adams, who might have been executed for killing a cop when he was innocent of that crime. It's bigger than folks in prison for child murder, or worse, who later turn out to be innocent. It's bigger, even, than folks we're "sure about" -- such as the teens who went to prison for raping and bludgeoning the Central Park Jogger, who might have been executed had she died, when developments years later established that they were innocent. If I had the Godlike ability to know guilt without a possibility of error, in all circumstances, I would have little problem with indulging the human thirst for revenge; indeed, one of the reasons I write horror fiction is so I can do so safely. But the possibility of error has ALWAYS kept me from embracing the death penalty, and I know that's a difficult position, because I deeply respect the motivations of the people who feel otherwise. (I don't respect politicians who can't even be bothered to be right, such as Dubya, who as Governor honestly couldn't be bothered to spend more than twenty minutes examining a case file to see whether stays were justified; he executed several folks who may have been innocents.)

Okay, did it. I went in at 1:00 this pm, mainly because I slept badly and woke up late. No line. Everybody did their thing this morning.

Now we wait.

It'll be interesting to see what happens in Florida.

Chuck

Um, Darryl, 'fraid your memories are off a bit. McGovern was on the ballot in '72, not '68. The Democrat on the ballot in '68 was Hubert Humphrey.

If students in Indonesia can hunger strike and go to prison for the privilege, if peasants in India can march bare foot for miles do the deed, then we here in the comfortable west can take the time to mark a little "x" on the ballot, even if all the candidates suck.

All the same, don't knock marching with the little signs. Some great political gains have been won through such action.

Democracy doesn't end at the ballot box. It begins there.

I am curious about all these stories about long line ups and wait times for some hours to vote. Here in Canada the process takes a couple minutes at most. Maybe it's just a small neighbourhood.

I saved one Kerry vote today at the precinct where I'm Kerry's on-site volunteer attorney. They turned the poor bastard away and I dragged his ass back in to at least vote provisionally. They claimed he was on the infamous "felons' list". My Bush counter-part poll watcher has been quiet for the most part. However, I heard directly at a near-by polling location that 6 out of the 10 electronic machines are down and the African-American Republican poll watcher is challenging voters AND the election workers. Back to the poll Batman!

REPLY TO BRIAN SIANO:

I'll try to answer. Succinctly.

First, a few thoughts on your passing observation that I've publicly voiced an opinion on something in year 1965 that was different in 1972 and altered yet again in 1989 and modified or even reversed in the middle of 2004:

One of the continuing annoyances I've felt with John Kerry is that apparently neither he nor any of the mental dustpans on his braintrust staff have known the simple, logical, great sexy sound-bite way to answer the endless idiot accusations that he "flip-flops." It is my reply to your passing observation (I know it wasn't an accusation).

I wish the words were original with me, but they were, in fact, written by the great aesthete and art collector, Bernard Berenson, who opined:

CONSISTENCY REQUIRES YOU TO BE AS IGNORANT TODAY AS YOU WERE A YEAR AGO.

(There is always, of course, recourse to the familiar old saw of Ralph walso Emerson, here quoted in nearly its entirety, instead of just the usual first nine words: "A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines. With consistency a great soul has nothing to do. ... Speak what you think to-day in words as hard as cannon-balls, and to-morrow speak what to-morrow thinks in hard words again, though it contradict every thing you said to-day.")

Not to belabor it, but I've always been fond of this one from Montaigne: TO BE CURED OF IGNORANCE ONE MUST FIRST CONFESS IT.

Any one of these, spoken in a folksy Bushlike rusticity, would (it seems likely to me, if constantly repeated when the "flip-flop" was hustled out by Bush or Chaney, every time, over and over) quickly have put an end to their use of that canard.

My point being, yes, Brian, I contradict myself. I am large. I contain multitudes.

And I hope, just a hope, always a hope, oh dearly please a hope, that I get a bit smarter and better informed every day. In line with that, finally to answer your query:

SOME of my positions have changed radically. Most have not. I remember when the word "liberal" was something to be proud of, an American quality of soul and heart that meant "progressive" and "openminded" and surfeited with a sense of justice and correctness, not just for the easily-swayed masses, but for the needy minorities, even the intellectual minority. It meant the opposite of what "conservative" has come to mean IN MY VIEW, which is "petty" and "self-consumed with narrow self-interest."

(As you can tell from my definitions, Cindy is hardly a pro forma Conservative. And while she might reject the label, if she isn't a Liberal, she's MY KIND of noble right-winger. Which is why you've never logged onto me once ragging her opinions on politics, while some others of you gnawed however daintily on her equanimity. Now, of course, taking into the equation the Zorro-like activities of our Texican lady Bolivar, you're all in my cubby of approbation, make room, make room.)

I'm still an Elitist who believes that with ANY degree of power comes GREAT responsibility; I still pick up litter from the road; I still believe the Average Joe can fight...SHOULD FIGHT...City Hall...Thoreau: "He serves the state best who opposes the state most"...and I still pretty much stand on most subjects where I stood, oh, maybe ten years ago. But of late, for instance, I've radically changed a few of my opinions, such as, for instance to name just one ... the death penalty. Not only am I in favor of it, but I think that, as an example, when one catches those three little cocksucker teens who shot an old man to death for no good reason last week, as he was out taking his daily constitutional, and then high-fived each other, and bragged about it to their schoolmates, that the death penalty is too good for them. I think it should be incurred onsite, right there, reflected in the empty staring eyes of that old man. The little amoral savages ought to get a .351 magnum pothole augured through the temple, right there, right then, and leave the garbage for the city sanitation truck to clean up. Same goes for the vile insects who shot that little nine-year-old black kid to death, nineteen times, NINETEEN FUCKING SHOTS, as he knelt before them, begging for his life, a couple of weeks ago here in LA. Cut their throats with a straight razor, on the spot, and let them bleed out next to their prey.

Have any of my views and opinions on life and mores and what's right and what's wrong and what we should fight to the death for changed over the years?

Oh, yeah, baby; I guess you could say that.

Which is why, perhaps a jot smarter than I was a few years ago, I voted for Kerry today. But he'd better understand ... I'm watching him.

Yr. pal, Harlan