Unca Harlan's Art Deco Dining Pavilion

Archive - 7/21/2004 to 9/28/2004

Unca Harlan's Art Deco Dining Pavilion

On the subject of Christian values . . . time to indulge in the sin of gluttony! :) Happy Thanksgiving to all.

Hmm.. I don't think *everyone* in Texas is bad, but I don't much care for the overall culture there. Maybe I could stand Austin if the weather weren't so hot. Austin has a big high tech industry and many people there are transplants. (I have also heard it is one of the more book-reading cities in America, but don't have the actual statistics.)Hmm, Houston is also home ot the NASA Johnson Space Center, so they can't be all illiterates there either (well they'd better not...)

As for Arizona, it's sort of a libertarian haven. I know of people who moved there from California just to get away from gun laws. They tend to live more in the outback areas than Phoenix though.

I agree with PAB about Karla Faye Tucker; you don't have to believe in God to believe there IS such a thing as religious conversion. Spiritual experiences may or may not come from outside oneself (I guess that depends on whether you are theist or atheist) but whole books have been written on it by psychologists such as William James, and even scientists who study the biology of what happens in the brain in "spiritual" people. Was Tucker's genuine? Well only she and her God knew that. Commuting her sentence might have been appropriate but no, society should not trust such a person enough to actually turn them loose. I looked it up on the Crime Library site (wonderful stuff on there, long articles on everybody from Lizzie Borden to Jack the Ripper to the "Blood Countess" Elizabeth Bathory...brr) The interesting thing is that the brother of one of her victims, who had been full of anger and wanting to kill her himself, ALSO had a born-again experience and ended up forgiving her (although some other victims' relatives did want her dead.)

Funny that Bush, who could have granted clemency, claims to be oh-so-born-again himself. Perhaps he believes more in an Old Testament God (an eye for an eye) than the New Testament God of love.

Cindy, I do understand your rage, though. We're only human.

The story of Cindy versus the Texas Cops is starting to look like a never-ending soap opera, and the plot twists get uglier...Cindy, you should think hard on Lee's advice about plans for the long term.

Happy Thanksgiving everyone.

Kristin

ARGGGHHH! I'm off line for a few days, and the posts multiplied like bunnies! Now I have to go back and read everything just to catch up. As of right now, my eyes are swimming and my head is reeling. But before I get back to reading all that I missed (man, Cindy, you've written some mini novels while I've been gone--I'm gonna be here a while) Happy Thanksgiving!

Were the United States governed by Christian principles, our President would have publically forgiven Al-Qaeda for bombing the WTC and the Pentagon, and destroying 3000 lives. He would not have sought revenge, but offered his love to those who hate us.

Since I strongly doubt anyone on this board, including myself, was willing to turn their cheek on that one, I think it's safe to claim that there are no true Christians here. I'd be interested in seeing some contrary arguments on this point.

Let me be as blunt as I can be: Texas is a cesspool of bad drugs and even badder vibes; the cowboy hats give me the impression that those people want to live in a past world that know longer exists. Law and order are just animal droppings near the bolt guns, at the endless bull killing stations. Those red state yahoos drink too much cheap beer, and seem to all shower in the pissings of departed spirit beasts. Our Cindy, thankfully, made it out of the stone pond with a head on her shoulders, and a heart in her ample chest. For that we can only say amen.

---------------

Todd, you can have Phoenix, this place is a shithole. I'm going to San Diego. What a dreary desert piss pot this burg is.

Cindy,

I’d like to ask whether you have any plan for obtaining legal counsel long term? You say you can’t pay attention, but are you getting anywhere with the various pro bono routes? Also, do you have a clearly defined goal or outcome that you envision? If you can’t express it in one thin paragraph (including a lasting result, the means of obtaining it and a realistic timing ) then you are probably spread too thin to achieve meaningful change.

My impression at this point is of a courageous pit bull launching itself boldly at a pack of wolves. There is a sprawl to the scope of your activities that seems to pit you against many people and several systems simultaneously. It would be hard enough to bring down one bad cop.

One thing about dirty rat bastards that have survived for a while: they are never as stupid as they are mean.

Cindy: I am still not persuaded that Hector is right and the police officer is wrong. I can see a half-dozen reasons why Hector would lie but none why the cops would frame Hector. As for his lengthy sentence, well, that's Texas for you.

Also, I know all about Karla Faye Tucker. She had a serious drug problem and was under the influence of an insane cocktail of substances when she committed the murders. Her life was a mess, though that's no excuse. She belonged in prison for the rest of her life, but I do believe she was reformed and wouldn't kill again.

Tucker found Jesus and was born again in prison. You believe in that kind of thing, I don't, but I do believe that, under extreme duress, people can undergo radical conversions of worldview (just like Saul on the road to Damascus). Bush also claims to believe in the healing power of faith, and credits Jesus with curing his alcoholism and drug problem. He believes in God's power for HIM, that his past wrongs should be forgotten, but when Tucker claims to have experienced same, he mocks her in a very public way. I call that hypocrisy bordering on sick. I also call a Christian who supports the death penalty a hypocrite, because I think it's very clean that Jesus was not in favor of punishment like that-- remember, forgiveness is at the heart of the Gospels. Redemption is always possible for Christians, but if you kill someone, you take away that chance for reconciliation.

I guess I will just never understand Bush or Texas. And I'm really OK with that.

PAB

I would just like to extend my best wishes to everyone who visits the Art Deco Dining Pavilion and hope we all have a happy Thanksgiving.

With thanks for all the intellectual provocation,
Mark

That should have read, " He is a physician and he communicates in those TERMS."

Sorry, didn't want y'all to be danglin' there.

:)

RYAN--SLEEPLESS NIGHTS CONFIRMED.

Thank you.

KRISTIN--GOT THE CHECK.

Again, thank you.

Susan

Holy SHIT!!!!

I nearly CHOKED over that one, David-- the tea went spewing all over the table when I looked at the definition of that word at;

http://www.britannica.com/search?query=paresis&submit=Find&source=MWTEXT

It must have been a "God thing" because THAT one was seriously out of my league. I'm silky, but I'm not that smooth. I'd be more likely to resort to an elegant understatement like, " Hey Asshole".

I do apologize. There is a simple explaination. My brain picks things up and sorts them randomly. If I see a new word I reflexively ponder it and try to remember how it looks for future reference. The embarrassing truth is; I am a naturally bad speller. My FATHER wrote a manuscript based on his life. He is a physician and he communicates in those. Daddy had a physically beautiful Uncle, Uncle Glen Hailes, who feasted wantonly at the Luby's cafeteria of available women in Mississippi and New Orleans, back in the 20's. Uncle Glen contracted tertiary syphilis-- I know, it's an ugly family skeleton--but I'll gladly rattle it out of the closet to ameliorate any damage that may have been caused by my unfortunate mental glitch. Eventually, Uncle Glen was paralyzed by the disease ( sadly he committed suicide). The word "paresis" was used by my father in the manuscript which I read three months ago. I saw your name and my brain recognized it and branded it familiar. I never went back to check.

I'm sorry.

I didn't think I was debating anything regarding Hector's trial or conviction. I am only answering questions as they come from the bright minds here-- like yours. If you know everything you need to about the case and have made up your deeecide, that is fine.

I'm not worried about my credibility here-- those who know me know my heart is in the matter and my motives are pure. They won't try to attack me because they think I'm wrong, they'll post the flaws they see regarding my beliefs-- just as they do when I go off on a Jesus tangent or a Bush soap box.

Your admonishments aside; I will continue to turn over rocks looking for keys that may or may not exist in Hector's case. I'm driven in the matter and can't stop until I have an answer one way or the other. If he's guilty, I'll figure it out. If he isn't, then somebody should have been doing what I am --all along.

If I would censor myself here in the Pavillion, because I am afraid you won't think I'm a credible person then I have reduced myself to the sort of tits on a turtle human being that can be of no use to anyone. Every convict should have at least one soul who sets out to find the truth-- on the chance ( even an outside one like Hector's) that he is innocent.

Hector's attorney of record was an Hispanic man from South Texas who believed he had the case won before he started. It was Merle, who stood in for that attorney on one occasion who said he would have tried to get him to take a plea bargain because he knew it was an exercise in futility to present it before a Mason County Jury-- because the people here think-- right or wrong- the way you seem to.

Cindy

SUSAN:

Any copies of Sleepless Nights left?

If so, is $35.48 correct for a California address?

As always, thanks.

--
Ryan

Cindy,
First off,I assume that your misspelling of my last name was an unfortunate typographical error and not some coy attempt at insulting me which it could be construed as (if you are unclear as to what I mean, go back to your pervious response to me and look up the word that resulted in your misspelling). I am sure you are mature enough to not resort to name calling, even name calling that would include "clever" wordplay.
Now that I have that out of the way.

I feel that further commenting and debate of the finer points of Hector Berrelles' trial and conviction are pointless, and irrelevant to your allegations of malfeasance on the part of the Mason County Sheriff's Department.Mr Berrelles chose to ignore advice of counsel and proceeded with a jury trial. Mr Berrelles and his counsel were unable to impeach the testimony of an undercover police officer. In the end Mr Berreles is solely
responsible for the outcome of the trial. Making this matter your cause du jour only damages your credibility and takes focus away from the alledged situation in Mason County. Also while you did not come out and state that an active duty police officer employed by the town of Brady Texas is a drug abuser, your walks like a duck, quacks like a duck type analogy comes very close to being libelous in nature.This is also damaging to your credibility and call into question the validity of your claims of wrongdoing on the part of the Mason County Sheriff's Department.
While you may have the best of intentions in regard to Hector Berrelles, his situation is beyond your control now ,and you should focus more on gathering substantive proof in regard to the claims you have made against the Mason County Sheriff's Department than diverting your efforts towards a lost cause.
D. W. Pareis

Finding and Bad Writing
Doug: Sigh. I WISH i had a day job. I suppose I could seek out every yellow page and website listing of a particular kind of business, but how could I buy their wares? (Do you know where to get obsolete Japanese bicycle parts? The Italian Campagnolo ones are collectors items, but who in the world sells used Shimano geartrains? My dad has these oldish bikes...10 or 12 speed with 2 in front and 5-6 in back. He registered on ebay to look for stuff, but I don't think it's around.)

Adam: Have you thought about entering the Bulwer-Lytton Contest? You know, the big annual worst-opening-sentence thing?

all right, I admit it I keep laughing at those HORRID Harlan-title parodies. But I agree with Jan: we should quit tormenting the poor guy. How long before we can say "all right Harlan, it's safe to come back now?"

Kristin

Oh shoot, somehow I truncated my message to PAB...

What I said pertained to your statement, " Defend Bush and Texas all you want-- I think the whole thing is flagrantly immoral. It strikes me as odd that you'd support the prison system until one of your friends is trapped in its web. Everyone in jail is someone's friend. It makes me ill."

I support the prison system (for the most part) it's the JUDICIAL system I find fault with--and only part of that. Also, for the record; I had never met Hector before his trial last week. I was covering the trial for the radio station or I would have never known anything about him or his plight. Same with Sam and David and Ricky and Catherine and on and on and on-- they broke my heart and I felt sympathy. Who wouldn't? None is perfect--least of all me. The things they have endured should not be suffered by anyone. A person would have to be made of stone to look in their faces and not feel pierced by their helplessness. If you were here- you'd react the same...just as you did for those children.

Cindy

ALL HAIL THE MIGHTY STATE

Hi Kris,
Thanks for the contact info. I enjoyed your post. We're the lucky ones. I grew up in Austin. Where'd you live when you were a kid?

Cindy


Hello Stuart,
:)

I was hunting around for some type of standard protocol for domestic narcotics task force interdiction. Your contention made perfect sense but I wanted to see if I could find any specific protocol in Texas concerning those field kits and how they should be disposed of after the fact.

INSTEAD, I stumbled upon THE MOST AMAZING THING. It's a story by the Houston Press. It specifically lists the Southwest Texas Drug Task force ( which was the agency the woman cop in Hector's case worked for) . The piece cites a cluster of objectionable cases her task force worked in Brady and other areas. The woman cop is now a Brady City Police Officer. Check it out-- they had 32 people in a federal housing authority rounded up on narcotics charges.

http://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v01/n1638/a01.html?2423

I know my post was painfully lengthy, but you must have missed the place where I said there were other aspects of the officer that played into my assessment. I did not state they can always obtain prints from plastic bags, I said they can and stated she should have at least sent the plastic off for testing, whether she thought anything would come of it or not. There should have been some sort of indication that she had made an attempt to link Hector to the crime with SOME physical evidence.

I didn't say the task force cop was a drug addict. I also gave more background than just her discomfiture at the question as possible indicators that she could have been something other than the uniform she wore conveyed. I said, she looked like a user and I described the features that could bear up such an assessment. I you're a cop or an attorney dealing with these types of cases- meth or crack in particular the physical characteristics of women who partake do, at some point, appear to be universal.

OH! If you read the article at the link above, you will also see mention of the Permian Basin Drug Task force ( toward the end of the piece). I told y'all about that entity before. That was the one Governor Bush took apart for corruption. It is also the very organization that we inherited the cop in the Omar case from... the one who is now leaving town. We still don't know what happened to all the guns the Mason Sheriff's department confiscated while he was Chief Deputy -- over 30 that I know of.

Under the circumstances and given what I have learned about Texas Narcotics Task Forces over the past eight years or so, I don't think it is was ridiculous for the attorney for the denfense to ask if the cop had done meth. He would have been remiss had he not.

Here's another one...


http://216.109.117.135/search/cache?p=Texas++task+force+protocol+for+Drug+Interdiction&ei=UTF-8&fl=0&u=www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v01/n1841/a02.html%3F1484&w=texas+task+force+protocol+drug+interdiction&d=56C2F83BC9&icp=1&.intl=us

I do appreciate your comments a great deal and as I said your points on the missing field test kit were excellent.


Still, feeling pretty secure about my instincts at this point,

Cindy



I'm glad you brought that up, Paula,

I believed Hector because his statement that he had not done THIS bad thing rang true, to me. I didn't believe the cop primarily because she had conflicting statements both written and oral on how the deal went down. She also made that statement that you can't get prints off a plastic bag. All of the missing pieces left enough of a reasonable doubt that I thought the jury fumbled the ball.

I knew a little about task forces in Texas-- not the Southwest Texas Task Force, one that served the 33rd Judicial District before the County transferred itself to the 198th. That task force had one member close to the top who told a local girl if she ratted him out and told what she knew about him and his men, they would " find her in dumpsters all over Austin".

What I didn't know was what I found this morning and posted for Stuart-- here it is again for you;

http://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v01/n1638/a01.html?2423

I was flying largely by instinct but I think this underscores what I suspected. She should not have been able to convict Hector with nothing other than her own testimony. Her case should have been lost based on what she FAILED to show-- one tiny speck of physical evidence or any corroborating report from another officer.

I don't feel animosity toward cops-- I love cops.. good cops. I've been married to one for a dozen years and there is no one I have more respect for. Through him I have met countlesss PEACE officers who deserve to and rightly, wear the badge. Perhaps it is precisely because I know all about the honor and courage and the KINDNESS of GOOD officers that I have no respect and less regard for bad ones. THAT is why I jump at something like this. Hector and Sam and Omar and David and Ricky and Catherine and on and on. If they can do it to them-- they can do it to YOU, or ME or ________(fill in the blank with the name of someone you care about).

It's fucked up and it's not right. I've said it before, I was a divorced, single mom from 1984-1992) I actually had a baby in 1987 when I wasn't married at all ( I know I'm scandalous).
Society tends to frown on that sort of thing as well. It was rough sometimes but I learned some things. One of the most important was there are people you would never think of as cruel, who do vicious things to people who can not protect themselves. I've been on the receiving end of that type of activity. I'm not any more, but I still have the same reaction when I percieve it may be happening to others; my stomach feels like it's falling down an open elevator shaft from about the 75th floor. THAT is the dog I have in the race-- I identify with people who are persecuted or abused. It pisses me off-- in no small way. Clergy, cops, bad lawyers without scruples, insurance creeps, neighbors-- I've been on the recieving end. It isn't something you forget.

In the case you questionl it isn't that it is impossible that Hector was dealing again-- it is that she didn't PROVE that he was. Her own testimony coupled with the yawning gaps in her case utterly impeached her credibility in my eyes.

Onward to your next topic du jour;

Bush mocked Karla Faye Tucker's plea for her life, mimicking her words, " Don't kill me!" in a sarcastic way because Tucker was a monster who showed no mercy for the young woman hiding under the covers in terror for her life. Instead she chose to hack at her over and over and over again with that pick axe until the girl was a bloody paste between the sheets. Tucker later told her friends that the excitement (of chopping that girl to bits) gave her a triple orgasm.

I suppose it seemed ridiculous to Bush that Tucker would be say anything as remarkably hypocritical as " Please don't kill me!" when you stack it next to what Tucker did to land herself on death row.

Here is the background on what she did;

http://216.109.117.135/search/cache?p=Karla+Faye+Tucker&sm=Yahoo%21+Search&toggle=1&ei=UTF-8&u=www.crimelibrary.com/classics3/tucker&w=karla+faye+tucker&d=09581E6218&icp=1&.intl=us

I don't see that reverence was warranted in her case; she was a carniverous insect. Bush's wise crack, while ill advised, was not so outrageous.

Next...

You really can't blame the escalation of the Texas crime rate on George W.

While we are leading the nation in crime, we are also leading in migratory criminals. According to the U.S. Census Bureau; the population of Texas has grown at twice the rate of the rest of the Country. In the ten years between 1990 and 2000, our population jumped by 22.8% ( the national growth average was 13.1).

You were right about our crime rate rising above that of California, their increase in population was only .5% over the national average, coming in at 13.6%. But here in Texas we've had more new people and more new criminals committing more new crimes. While we have been working hard to execute the murderers of the bunch just as fast as we can-- we do seem to be having a little difficulty keeping up with the ever growing supply.

For the record; I don't think the death penalty is a deterent, but it sure as hell cures recidivism.

Here's the website for the U.S. Census Bureau. You can check out the facts regarding Texas and California, or any state you like.

http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/index.html


br>


Joel,

I'm not sure how long they've been doing it but check this out. You mentioned it had been three years since you served on the jury. Maybe this is relatively new technology?

http://www.forensic.e-symposium.com/articles/e2003/oct3.html

It wouldn't be your job to keep abreast of such things but I would think that a Narcotics Task Force member would be up on anything regarding prints on plastic bags, since that seems to be what dealers do a lot of their packaging in. It might still be difficult to get the prints off a plastic bag, but it is do-able. Any attempt at all would have shown at least some effort on her part to secure some physical evidence. Not that they needed it they had all the proof the jury required-- he's Mexican American and he's an ex-con, convicted for a similar crime years ago, but convicted nonetheless. She was a cop-- in a police uniform- who are they going to believe? I guess they showed us.

Cindy


Adam Troy Castro, you made me laugh my ASS off with that story.

fingerprints and baggies....
Gotta concur about the difficulty in lifting prints off Baggies and other such material. I served on a jury three years ago where this question was brought up and the judge said [after the trial, when they're allowed to comment on the proceedings] that it's very difficult at best.

Least Ellison: "While addressing Christmas cards the other day..."

Well, mine was submitted in the spirit of pastiche for the period 1965-75. For 1955-60 I'd have submitted SLICK CHICKS AND SICK TWISTS. For 1961-65 perhaps INCISION DEPTH. But after '75 it's really not possible to do Ellison pastiche of titles. Or at least it's much harder. Now if I had a GOOD title I certainly wouldn't spend it here.

Least Ellisonian Opening Paragraph
Gosh-o-whillikers, I just adore salmon!, mentally enthused the persian cat Thomasina, as she hopped ever-so-daintily off the divan and slinked to the kitchen where her mistress, Sally Anne, had just peeled off the lid of the day's Nine Lives. Thomasina knew she had to keep her strength up in order to enjoy a full day of frolic in the April sunshine, especially if mean old Mr. Ruff, the bulldog from next door, insisted on chasing her again.

Cindy: Let me cut to the chase. Why would you believe Hector, a convicted felon, over a cop not involved in the Mason County issue, who you don't know, and who very likely was just doing her job? What makes him so much more credible to you than she is? Is it so impossible that he was dealing again? I guess I'm not sure why you've got a dog in this race. Are you maybe just feeling animosity towards cops and jumping at things that don't warrant your attention?

As for the executions in Texas, I'm dead set against the death penalty for reasons that are well-covered territory on this board. George Bush I think took a certain amount of pleasure in executing people. In an interview with Tucker Carlson, Bush mocked Karla Faye Tucker's plea for her life, mimicking her words, "Don't kill me!" in a sarcastic way. How do you account for that?

There is nothing Christian about state-sponsored executions. I don't think it's something Jesus would approve of, considering he himself was a victim of the same kind of system. Bottom line, it's impossible to be certain that one of those 152 people killed by the Bush administration wasn't innocent. Not a risk I'm willing to take.

As for more African Americans being incarcerated than whites, it's a lot of things. America is still a racist country, for one. Second, you do realize that the correctional system is a big business and Texas contracts out to private companies, right? There's a lot of money to be made on the human misery of the prison system, and Texas is America's leader in this booming business. African Americans are easy targets because they are generally low-income and thus wind up with crappy representation.

Just so you know, all this killing and imprisoning hasn't helped Texas' crime rate AT ALL. So what is the point, I ask you? The point, my friend, is $$$.

Defend Bush and Texas all you want-- I think the whole thing is flagrantly immoral. It strikes me as odd that you'd support the prison system until one of your friends is trapped in its web. Everyone in jail is someone's friend. It makes me ill.

PAB

Harlan Titles?
Ben, Grande Idea!

Here's my submission:

Thirteen Geiger Mercury High

How about coming up with a FIRST PHRASE with which Harlan will NEVER start out an essay, story, or forward?

Here's something to get started:

"While tending to my garden..."

-Keith

OUR TEXAS
PAB: No effort at obfuscation. I apologize for not clarifying that my efforts were not really a “defense,” but were, in fact, an attempt to separate W and my beloved Texas in the collective unconscious that rests outside our State’s borders. Once again, however, I am reduced to the realization (of most Texans) that this is impossible. Hence, a Texas Government Lesson, to go with your statistics.

First, while I know you probably have a great deal of other, far more fun reading material at your fingertips, if you did not have the pleasure of basic Texas government courses in your youth, as most native Texans did, please visit texaspolitics.laits.utexas.edu/html/exec/index.html. The Liberal Arts Instructional Technology Services at the University of Texas created the site for use in their regular and web-based political science and history coursework. It is an excellent primer in all the ways to “separate the way Bush does thing from the way that Texas does things,” and how I “exonerate” (although I preferred “separate”) Bush for many things that happened in Texas while he was governor. I’ll give you a hint from the site: “Compared to the U.S. President or chief executives of other states, the Texas governor occupies a ‘weak’ office.” I expect that you will educate yourself about the facts you think pertinent, and will not lecture you. I will add, however, that the structure of Texas government is the reason that Texans historically elect “entertaining characters” to the governorship. I encourage you, if you have the chance, to read up on our previous governors, at least for the entertainment value and some historical perspective.

Second, Bush didn’t execute anyone during his governorship. I know, I know, it’s rhetoric, but so was YOUR phrasing, and I’ll forgive you if you’ll forgive me. For starters, the death penalty in Texas cannot be given by a judge, and couldn’t be, even before the Supreme Court jumped all over states who were still allowing that. Twelve jurors, at the conclusion of a trial, determined that those individuals would be executed. That’s the criminal procedure part, but the government lesson is more important. Mark Twain once said (in 1873, to be exact), “I have had no experience in making laws or amending them, but still I cannot understand why, when it takes twelve men to inflict the death penalty upon a person, it should take any less than twelve more to undo their work. If I were a legislature, and had just been elected and had not had time to sell out, I would put the pardoning and commuting power into the hands of twelve able men instead of dumping so huge a burden upon the shoulders of one poor petition-persecuted individual.” In Texas, we apparently listened. Sort of. “Executive Clemency is the power of the Governor to grant a full or conditional pardon, full pardon based on innocence, commutation of sentence, remission of a fine or forfeiture resulting from a criminal conviction, emergency medical reprieve, or 30 day reprieve of execution. In accordance with the TEXAS CONSTITUTION, the Governor may ONLY grant executive clemency upon the recommendation of the Board...The Board is limited to recommending clemency and to setting minimal eligibility requirements for clemency applicants.” (Emphasis added.) Please check out tdcj.state.tx.us/bpp/index.htm for information on the seven-member Texas Board of Pardons and Paroles. And if the Board recommends clemency? Texans don't want it given. (See "twelve jurors," above.)

It’s not illogic. I was born here, and grew up here, and I’ve read significant portions of the document that is the basis for our government. I went to law school here, and had the opportunity to compare that document – the Texas Constitution – with those of other states. I know that folks used to the federal system, or to a state system based on the federal system, do not understand that the way Texans handed out power 160+ years ago is DIFFERENT, and remains different from the way others do things. (“What? Your governor CAN’T just pardon people like Bill Clinton did? What the hell?”) Our history, and the people who chose to start this State preferred it that way and the people to whom that history and that State have been passed prefer it that way still.

As for being the “killingest state in the Union,” yeah? So? I am deeply disturbed by the stories of individuals, from Indiana to New York to Texas, who have spent time on death row as innocents. (I would HIGHLY recommend a performance “The Exonerated” to anyone who has a chance to see it.) If you want to dissect that number and demonstrate that any of the ones presently waiting to die did not do what they were convicted of doing, not only will I listen, but I will put my name in the hat for free research time or anything else I can do without getting fired from my present employment. My money where my mouth is, no problem. But the largeness of the number means…what? That we have a lot of murderers in Texas? That we have juries who aren’t afraid to give out the death penalty? That we have prosecutors bringing innocent people to trial, deliberately or negligently? That we should be shortening appeals and killing them faster, in the same year they commit the crime, so that number might be lessoned? That we are randomly selecting innocent individuals via an advanced Shirley Jackson (reference?) lottery to soothe our collective loathing of being Texans? That we just have a lot of people who need killin’? Whatever the number suggests, it proves nothing by way of argument.

As for thinking worse of Texas…well, I’d recommend not moving here then. It’s all over the place south of the Red River. ;)

The title thing could have been interesting, if didn't have to be Ellison titles. You people make me cringe. (I think you're torturing Harlan, if he's even paying attention.)

Just for the record, I take back what I said yesterday about the sound engineering on the CD. I listened to it again without the earplugs and it sounds fine now, you can tell they had problems keeping the volume even and to eliminate the tape echo, but they worked hard.

A Small This 'N' That, Before Work

Cindy:

Thanks for the understanding. I'm new here, so slogging back through the posts would take more effort and time than I have to give. Fow what it may be worth, please take my best luck with you.

Harlan:

Corn 'n' chili, for god's sake? Look pal, if you're going to vomit, do it right. Based upon experience derived from chemo and radiation, chocolate mousse is just about the perfect food for hurling purposes. It looks absolutely nasty and smells worse (although as projectile vomit goes, it loses some sense of nuance in not containing chunks), but in reality tastes just about as good coming back up as it did going down.

Jesus, amateurs. Where do they find these people?

One more: The Erotic Adventures of Loofah in the Land of Nerf

Cindy,
Only posting to say this: I was surprised that they released Hector for a couple of days. It had nothing to do with believing you or not believing you.

Also, the most recent post about Hector does prove more enlightening.

Mike,
I think you're talking about MEDEA and it was one of the books that Susan was offering earlier this week.

Harlan,

I remember hearing about a book that a group of authors (including yourself) collaborated on and in which you constructed an entire planetary system and described the biology, geology, history, etc. of that planetary system either through a novel format or connected short stories. It seems to me that there were two intelligent species on the inhabited planet of the system but since I only remember this book being described to me vaguely by a friend of mine, I may be hallucinating. It’s also possible you’ve done more than one collaborative effort like this. In any event, if this sounds familiar to you, please refresh my memory and let me know if the book (assuming it exists) is available anywhere. Thanks in advance for any information you can provide.

Titles Continued
The Deathbunny

Shitterday

Crazy as a Rat in a Tin Shithouse

This Levendis Dude What Brung That Columbus Cat up On Shore to Meet the Injuns

The Pale Indian Head Penny of the Moon Fades Away and Makes Jell-o

Harlan - You're quite welcome. It's either find things, or become a felon, and orange prison jumpsuits make my face look blotchy, so... reap the rewards. Package is in the mail today. Should be there by week's end, barring the release of 3 gajillion Christmas cards into the mail stream on Black Friday.

Rich - It's instinct and luck. I've stopped trying to understand it. Sometimes, things turn up in hours. Sometimes, it takes years. But that's all it is - instinct and luck. Well, and knowing how to look.

Kristin - That's not hard at work. 'Hard at work" would be compiling a list of dealers who specialize in 78s or Dixieland music and going to the phones to make inquiries, while sifting old auction catalogs to see if the record in question has turned up at any point in the last, oh, five years or so (for pricing purposes, because Okeh records aren't the easiest thing to turn up on earth). But then, I have a day job for that level of effort. Nah, it's just a sidelight performed for friends and interested hangers-on.

As for progress reports? Nope. Hardly ever use them.

Harrison, come over to the forum, chuckles. There you'll find plenty of point and counter-point to while away your lunch hour.

I've had this title trapped in my brain for years, so let me inflict it on you guys: NOBODY DIES FOREVER. Now, is that bad, or is that BAD?

Harlan, I'm glad you're getting the "Knife in the Darkness" tape, but I'm a bit disappointed that I wasn't able to find it for you myself, no matter how many second hand tape stores I scoured here in Philly. Oh well, I get some small gratification out of being the person who brought the existence of the tape to your attention in the first place.

I really have to de-lurk here to ask the question, what is your point Eric Martin?

How does the fact that films like this Earth Sea flick are made in order to make money preclude us from discussing their artistic merits. The producers and finaciers are trying to make money, so we must never question their decisions, including the screenwriters? I guess you think Harlan shouldn't have been bothered by what was done to some of his scripts then.

The whole argument you're making strikes me as a bit nutty.

Because They Let Me Out Early

ADRIFT IN A SEA OF MONKEY VOMIT

BUGZILLA

TO PULL YOUR FANGS FOR A MINUTE

Chuck

Hey Cindy
I haven't followed a lot of your posts but noticed a few errors. One, in all my years, I've never heard of anyone saving a field drug test kit in a case. There's a couple of reasons for this. One, the test itself is only a presumptive one. They probably used a Marquis-Reagent. Its results are very temporary, so impounding would prove nothing. Second, the chemicals in these test kits are not the heathiest things so I'm sure that a property bureau would not want them sitting in an evidence locker for however long it would take for a case to go to trial. Third, the actual analysis and measurement of evidence is done by the lab.

Second, your claim that plastic bags will always have fingerprints is not true. I know everyone watches CSI and gets their idea of forensics from it but that is kind of like me watching LA Law and thinking I could try a case. Reality is a far different thing. In my experience, it's very hard to find fingerprints on various items--including plastic.

Finally, your description of the undercover officer as a drug addict seems very unfair. Yes, when working undercover, officers have to look the part. But assuming an officer uses drugs simply because she paused and looked down when asked if she uses drug is taking a huge leap. I'd assume more that she was exasperated and annoyed to be asked such a ridiculous question.

Anyway, just wanted to help you out with some of these things.

Take care,

Stuart

Euuch! The title monster!!
how's THIS for a horrible nightmare....somebody programs a COMPUTER to generate Random Harlan Titles.....RUN AWAY SCREAMING!!!!! ARGH! RUN AWAY!!!

like the machines programmed to write trashy novels in Orwell's 1984.

Haa, FinderDoug, I see you're hard at work trying to find HE that 78rpm record of Dukes of Dixieland...ugh, if I'd just re-read about 100 messages down in the archive last night I wouldn't have stayed up until 1:00am sniffing out the exact title and record number (which somebody posted before) and locating a record-collector bulletin board Doug had beaten me to it in posting requests on!!! I also found way too many sites that were out of date. Any progress reports? (You just get...addicted to the Hunt, I guess. Once you start it's hard to stop.) Ebay was listing about four DoDixieland 78s (starting bid $1.99 each!) but I couldn't figure out what songs were on them. I don't even have an account there.

You know, I just might end up buying myself some Dixieland jazz - what the heck, some stuff has been reissued on CD.

Cindy...not enough space to answer everything you say. It's probably best not to get 100 percent soured on cops; I'm sure there are honest cops out there....but if so it is ONLY because brave citizens like yourself work at KEEPING them that way!!! There are some...subcultures...in the US where police work does attract the worst of the bad eggs - total bullies in uniform. It's almost a cliche that urban police forces are corrupt (MPR was talking recently about all the LAPD cops who deal drugs out the back door) but in a small town, with a small, largely homogeneous population, things can be even worse due to the lack of redundancy. It's kind of a...small sample, in statistical terms.

Does that make any sense? I hope it does...Keep working to get to the bottom of things and find the root of the corruption.

Susan - I know I made out the check correctly to "The Kilimanjaro Corporation" but the envelope is addressed to HERC (you specifically said to address the order to Kilimanjaro - was that so you could tell which ones for "reserved on Webderland?" Hope it doesn't get lost in the shuffle.

May you get only checks made out with the correct spelling this week and no more awful titles...

Kristin
p.s. just called Dutton's Books & reserved my copy of STRANGE WINE. I hope they got the spelling of my name right - I'll see if it's autographed to me or my cousin Kirsten, who lives in Vermont and for all I know doesn't even read!

Titles: And HimsElf Called It...

The Words Ain't On the Paper 'Cuz They're Slippery

Remind Me To Tell You About That

Mistah Intra-Ocular

EscherSketch

Here are some titles for you all:

Tin Ear

No Talent Bum

Music That Won't Play

Asleep at the End of the Line

Dead Words for the Living

Ten Words Too Long

Dream Envy


Steve Dooner

PERCEIVED-- DAMN it...PERCEIVED!!!

God DAMN and you thought the LAST one was War and Peace!
Thank you Harlan,
You are right again.

The input of skeptics, particularly those who have an eye for detail and logic would be invaluable to me. Only sarcasm and pointless attacks without merit make me tired the rest just fuels my fire and helps me address what might be percieved as weak spots.

Thank you... again, and I think you're a doll AND an action figure.

Cindy




Kris,
Tell me again how I can get ahold of you? You are right on about folks not taking a shot at Texas because of what is going on here in Mason County.

Cindy



Rich,

What I meant by the proof is in the pudding is; when there is an indictment, or a case has been filed in federal court the media will have it and then you will see the truth for what it is and has been all along.

In the meantime, you are right; I do completely believe what I am saying. Hector's case is relatively new and all of the facts aren't in. The DA's case against him in court didn't have enough evidence, in my opinion to justify sending him to prison for the 15 years the jury gave him. Maybe if I give you what they brought out, you'll see where they were wrong-- or you'll show me where I am wrong.

Quinn thinks Hector belongs in prison and said he shouldn't have been paroled in the first place. In my opinion Quinn's point is moot--Hector WAS on parole and the law says he deserves the chance to straighten up. Hector maintains that he has. Quinn is right a lot, but not always.

I learned something valuable from observing Low's behavior-- just because they're cops doesn't mean they always tell the truth, it also doesn't mean you can trust them to do what is right. I used to tell my children to approach the police with utter openness and honesty. Now I tell them to say nothing. That's sad.

Quinn came home late last night. He's been gone for a week. I told him everything about Hector's case. He's less sympathetic than I am-- A LOT less sympathetic. He's dealt with Hector before as a cop on numerous occasions for relatively minor infractions.


I did not allege conspiracy on the part of the Task Force Cop. She is not affiliated closely with the Mason cops. But I do say it was ( at best) sloppy, incompetent police work. The holes in her testimony and written reports should have been sufficient to throw the case out. At worst, she pocketed the $250, snorted some of the meth and pinned it on the ex-con who fell into her hands first. She was originally looking for Hector's brother Fernando, who also has a record. When Hector's attorney asked her if she did meth she dropped her eyes and then closed them before responding in the negative.

Now that there is one juror who feels badly that she went along with the other jurors to convict Hector, something could come of it. I figure, either I'll find out that Hector is guilty as sin or I'll try and get the juror to talk to Hector's attorney about an appeal.


You wrote that you're surprised they released him after convicting him. Is it that you are surprised, or is it you don't believe it. I won't be offended; say which it is. If you don't believe it I can probably find something at the courthouse that will prove it to you. The D.A. didn't object so the Judge allowed him a couple of days with his family. His wife told me they were trying to get ahold of the D.A. to see if he would allow him to stay out until Monday-- but the last I heard he presented himself at the jail on Friday afternoon.

Tell me what you don't believe or what specifically you have trouble accepting. I will be happy to address your questions and doubts.

The things I posted on Hector are not as sifted or thoroughly investigated as those of my other cases. I've been working on the earlier ones for about a year, Hector's stuff just came out last week in court. I should have waited to post them until after I did the leg work, but he was so sadly compelling and the State's case was not. The complete absence of any physical evidence presented by the officer, other than the plastic bag with the meth--was disturbing. When she stated under oath that they could not get prints off any plastic bag it branded her, (again) at best an incompetent.

Cindy








Dorman!

It isn't just Texas, it's everywhere. There's just a whole lot of problems here right now because the government in its infinite wisdom has given Drug Task Forces a vested interest in any seized assets. Ask your friend if there have been any charges regarding narcotics or cash. If the cops or task forces can grab something and make a case that drugs were involved they can keep what they catch. It's a stupid set up that can tempt less stalwart cops into corruption. The SWT drug task force caught $2 million dollars in cash right before they disbanded... not that there's anything wrong with that.

At this point I'd believe your friend until something was proved to discount her statement



Rich (again),

I'm not signing or starting any petitions for Hector's release. What I am doing is looking for the C.I. ( confidential informant) mentioned by the woman cop whose testimony alone convicted Hector. The C.I. is a local kid who has had problems of her own since high school-- she went to school with my first son, Nick She did not appear to testify in court which would have backed up the cop's statements. The cop also said she had a backup partner working with her-- he was not there to testify either. The only testimony they had was the cop, a toxicology specialist from the DPS and the lady who runs the evidence lockup for the Task Force. The keeper of the evidence appeared but did not bring any substantiating evidence either. It would have been helpful to have had a copy of the log where the officer signed out $250 for the purchase she said she made from Hector. They said they had no receipt for the cop's withdrawal of the money.

The jury was comprised of all older Mason County residents-- all white-- all with pristine records themselves. They don't have direct contact with the cops, because they are the law abiding sort. They have no personal experiences or reason not to believe what any cop tells them is the truth. That is why they should have had at least one Hispanic juror. Those who sat in judgment of Hector were not his peers, they were from Old School Mason, which means if he's Mexican and there is a mention of dope he must be guilty.





David Paresis,

Not a .4gram difference, the difference is between 1.5 grams ( if the total was 2.5 as the cop testified on the stand) and almost 2 grams (1.9) if you base it on the amount they ended up with at the DPS toxicology lab in Austin. The bottom line is Hector said he didn't sell her any dope at all. The only thing they had to tie him to it was the testimony of the cop. She should have had a world of evidence if it had gone down the way she said it did on the stand. She stated that fingerprints cannot be identified on a plastic bag. It's a routine test conducted with fumes from super glue. You probably know that too and you're not even a cop.

Am I insinuating that an undercover cop in a narcotics task force could be capable of using meth or pocketing money? No, I'm telling you it happens all the time all over the country. Could it have happened in Hector's case? Just as easily as it happens in others. The cop should have had the sheet that showed she signed out the $250, she should have produced the receipt for the batteries she claimed she bought for Hector's scales, she should have had Hector's finger prints on the plastic bag the meth was in-- or at least showed evidence that she had sent it to the DPS crime lab to TRY and get prints from it. She should have DAMNED sure had her buddies testifying to back her up and she should have gotten the recording of the buy because THAT would have proved her case conclusively. Without those key ingredients the cake doesn't rise. Add to that she looks like a user, which may be by design. For some reason the mouths of meth users look like shrunken applehead women's mouths-- do you know what I mean? She's an attractive, skeletal woman probably in her early to mid-thirties, but her mouth looks like it belongs on a woman 40 years older. I don't intend for that to sound mean, but her demeanor and appearance featured in my take. The physical characteristics alone would have meant little or nothing, add them with the yawning gaps in the puzzle and things cannot be so easily dismissed. These are the reasons I am reluctant to conclude that Hector belongs behind bars for another 15.



The pepper spray incident happened on a single occasion-- Low sprayed him twice. I don't know what lead up to it but if, as Hector says he begged him not to do it, because he was afraid it would hurt or damage his (recently surgically corrected ) eyes-- I believe he would have been sufficiently threatened by the presence of the spray to have been compliant. I have seen numerous cases indicating Low's propensity for sadistic infliction of unnecessary force, but it's usually on men in their sixties who are too drunk to do anything about it.

Quinn just got home last night. He's been gone for a week. I asked him about Hector. Being a Mason cop for 15 years he is familiar with most of the indigenous law breakers. On the pepper spray incident, Quinn said (and I do quote) " You can't tell anything based on what Hector says or what Low says because they're both lying sacks of shit". Then he said they could both tell him it's raining, and cold outside and he'd have to go out and see it for himself.

I asked him if Hector ever resisted arrest and Quinn said Hector had never offered to fight. He said, " He'd mouth some, but that was about it". But, he also pointed out, that doesn't mean Hector wouldn't take a poke at Low. Quinn said he has arrested Hector for many petty offenses, including pot over the years and he wouldn't be surprised if he did sell the task force woman an eight ball. I told him Hector had told me he's done many bad things-- but, he said, " I didn't do THIS bad thing". I said he seemed earnest. Quinn then told me the exact thing Merle said that " the prisons are filled with innocent men".

But I still found Hector to be credible in his presentation, both on the stand and when I spoke to him before and after-- which I realize isn't a guarantee that he is telling the truth. Still, I have to check things out just the same.

Merle said he would have told Hector to take the plea bargain because the conservative nature of Mason would make it almost impossible to get around a conviction with an Hispanic defendant involving drug dealing. Of course Merle, like Quinn is not convinced of Hector's innocence in this matter. He did tell me that he had a case involving young man, accused of armed robbery in a convenience store in Austin. He said the clerk who identified the robber said he had a tiny crown tattooed on his neck. The Gang Task Force with the Austin P.D. identified that tattooed symbol as belonging to the gang called The Latin Kings. The cops got out the mugshots of all of the Latin Kings they had on file and showed them to the clerk who identified Merle's client positively. The cops had him sign his name on the back of the photo. Merle said he did everything he could to compell the kid to take a plea bargain, he told him in Austin if you commit a crime with a gun, you're looking at hard time... many,many years in prison. He said he thought he remembered the plea bargain would have gotten the kid between 2 and 3 years. The kid kept saying he was innocent and would not take the plea. Merle said he had no choice but to take it to trial. When they arrived at the Courthouse the clerk pointed at Merl's client and said," Who's that?" Merle said, " What do you mean, who's that? That's my Client, the one you identified." The clerk said, " That's not the one-- I've never seen that kid before in my life!" Come to find out the clerk had identified a different Latin King and when the cops turned the pictures over they somehow transposed two of them and the clerk signed the wrong one. Merle said he was just sick about it. He said he was sick because he almost talked an innocent kid into going to prison.


After the jury left to deliberate, Hector told me that he had been offered a plea bargain for three years. He then said, " I told my attorney " no way". He said " I told him I wouldn't do ONE DAY, because I did not do this."

I might be gullible and I might be wrong but I looked in his eyes when he said it and I believed him.

You can find all of the facts in Sam's case in an earlier post. He wasn't a witness in his own case at all. He doesn't remember most of December. There were numerous others who had no reason to lie, had nothing to gain by telling what they saw or heard. Low's own written statements and official reports indict him as do the statements of the eye witnesses. Go back and look up those details and let me know if you find anything that you don't understand or have questions about.

No, there is no tape of Sam's experience on December 8th. Low had a patrol car equipped with video and audio parked in his driveway but he didn't turn on the video tape.

Low got nearly three grand from Sam's automobile insurance agency-- which he filed on for property damage as the "owner" of the damaged fence, even though he owns no property in Mason County. Don't ask me why the Insurance Company paid it, I haven't figured that out yet. I faxed copies of the land records and tax rolls from the Courthouse and from the Appraisal District to the Insurance agency's fraud division-along with their own statements of what had abeen paid and to whom, but nothing has come of it-- that I know of. I also notified the State Insurance Fraud Commission but they said they won't do anything unless someone from the Insurance agency files a complaint with them directly.

The guy whose daughter was set up by Low is a fraud investigator, conveniently enough. Tomorrow he's going to go with me to take a look at Sam's pickup to see if it has damage that would bear up Low's written account that he ran through 4 fences-- or his other written account that he ran through six fences.

You spot anything else you haved questions about, just holler.

Cindy





Alan,

You're a true gentleman. I thank you for defending me. I agree with your sentiments.

Thank you for being kind.

Cindy



Mary,
Thank you very much. It is true that my posts are exceedingly rough- this because they are so deeply laced with my emotions. The encouragement is gold to me.

Cindy

Alex Jay,
Well said. You're such a good guy.

Paula,

I disagree with what you wrote to Alan. I believe what he said was that those who think I am a liar and a bullshitter--should scroll past.


I think that is a sound admonishment.

If they flatly disbelieve what I write here and don't wish to state their doubts or questions, there is no point in my taking their time. It's like the Watchtower-- I don't actually READ that shit, but I respect the Jahova's witnesses who have the sack to bring it to my house. I do not disrespect the messengers, but neither do I ponder what I consider to be the wrong trail. I'd swap dogma with them but it's non productive so I refrain. I need real questions based on the facts as I present them; stinging barbs lacking valid criticism are worse than useless to me, they are a hindrance.

I don't think Alan said anything about disagreement he only said if you don't believe, then don't bother. I think that's correct reasoning.









Micheal,

If you think the things I post or those submitted by Faisal are not based in fact- then you have nothing to lose by scrolling on.

I hope you continue to improve in health and physical strength.

:)

Cindy



Hiya Faisal,

It was good to talk to you last night.

:)

Cindy

Benjamin Li'l Washu,

In the end, when Cathy was in Heathcliff's arms and he tells her what she is to him--that was delight! NEVERMIND that she was dying, the sweetness of that moment, when they reveal to each other the depth and degree of their love and the truth that it had only strengthened in intensity and desperation throughout the course of their turbulent lives- was worth the brutal paths that brought them to that moment.

Well, actually, come to think of it; it would suck to be them at that moment- but it was a delight to ME.

:)

Cindy



Jon,

Questions I welcome, criticism as well. I take exception to neither those who would question nor those who found it difficult or impossible to follow the linear story, as I tell it, only to those who would post only biting or sarcastic comments without reason or inquiry.

Paula Berman's post is perfection.





Paula ( again),

I'm glad you asked.

:)

Hector was indicted for the sale of one eight ball. The woman cop testified that she went to Hector's home and asked him if he could get her an eight ball. She said she gave him $250 and he left his house to go and find someone he could buy from, to get the dope for her. That is the testimony of the cop. There was no dope at Hector's house lying around.

Hector said the woman/cop was never at his house-- let alone at his house purchasing narcotics from him. He said she had flagged him down by the Courthouse to ask him where his brother Fernando was. Hector said that was the only contact he had with the woman. He's been on parole a long time and was not interested in compromising it over a A$250 drug deal. He's been to prison and had spent the 10 years leading up to THIS indictment, working to stay OUT of it. In Texas if a person re-offends the time he spends out on parole does not count against his original sentence-- so all 10 of the years he served on parole is out the window. He goes back to square one on the original offense in addition to anything earned on a new conviction. Incidentally in those 10 years he has been subject to urine analysis for drugs. He has never tested positive.

I will add here that I thought dealers were also all users, and I felt the negative drug tests went toward Hector's innocence. Quinn said that was incorrect. He said they don't normally dip into their own inventory.


Hector's original offense was gang involvement with narcotics trafficking in a tiny town about an hour from here. I think it was an organized crime and dealing charge. So yes, he was convicted before of dealing, however that case had nothing to do with this case.

Hector said to me; "I've done a lot of bad things. But I did not do THIS bad thing."


The Drug Task Force is equipped with recording equipment. The cop while on the stand said it was true that they they use them during all of their undercover operations. Audio tapes provide irrefutable evidence of guilt in cases such as Hector's. The defense attorney asked her if they could listen to the tapes of her interactions with Hector leading up to his arrest. She said she didn't have any.

That's a strike.

Then you have her statement that she "threw away" the field test kit she used on the meth she said she purchased from Hector. A kit such as that would be further evidence against him. Evidence that would and should hold weight before a jury. Ask any cop you know; you don't throw out evidence-- ESPECIALLY if you are on a DRUG TASK FORCE trying to build a case on a drug dealer.

That's a strike.

Then you have her absurd statement that " you can't get fingerprints off a plastic bag". That is just plain outright BULLSHIT. As Merle observed, she COULD have said, " I didn't get any fingerprints because I didn't need them. He bought the dope from someone else, then he turned around and sold it to me. I didn't need any fingerprints"..... INSTEAD she says they can't get fingerprints off a plastic bag.

That's a strike.

Next you have the story she gave about the batteries she purchased for Hector's scales. She had no receipt.

Not quite a strike but still another suspicious puff of smoke when it comes from an officer of a task force who is undoubtedly highly trained in the collection and protection of evidence and has had the value of evidence drilled into her since she went to the academy. They HAMMER this stuff in when you're a cop. Oh, and they didn't have the scales for evidence or even a picture of any scales-- only the cops testimony-- again.

No, Paula, I would not be the least bit upset by a drug dealer VIOLATING PAROLE going back to prison.

Yes, I am a Republican. There are things in the party's national platform I think are bullshit... such as in changing the Constitution to ban gay marriage. There are somethings that, if they are done correctly work.

I am against mandatory sentences except in the cases of violent offenders and child molesters.

But mostly, I am ENORMOUSLY, VISCERALLY AND MORALLY AGAINST punishing those WHO HAVE COMMITTED NO CRIME. It really is better to let 100 bastards ( guilty of peddling meth ) go than to lock up an innocent man for 15 years on a bullshit deal. If he did it and the state can prove it-- that's a different story.

As for African American incarceration rates being higher than those of other races, I believe it is because the cops focus on the African American members of our society. If they focused on other races equally they would have similar lock up rates. It's a bullshit deal-- like a lot of bullshit deals the cops do.

Not ALL cops, mind you-- but the bad ones.


I also think people who have been in trouble before and have served their time, then continued on to live law abiding lives, should be protected the same as any person who has never made a mistake.

Bush was a good governor, I voted for him twice. He didn't stay a lot of executions, but he did give a last minute reprieve to Henry Lee Lucas for the murder of the girl still referred to as" Orange Socks" because it was conclusively established that he could not have done it. Lucas was HATED in Texas because he was a known serial killer. If anyone had it coming Lucas did, if not for Orange Socks for a dozen others-- but Bush did the right and honorable thing. If he was the sort some paint him to be he would have gotten Lucas because he "needed killin' and not because he was guilty of that particular crime.

Yes, Texas leads the Nation in executing murderers. I don't see that as a bad thing as long as the murderers are murderers. I think the need of society for the death penalty is evident in cases such as the one involving the redneck thugs in Jasper who dragged James Byrd Jr. to death behind their pickup. They did it and there was no denying it. They deserve the harshest sentence we can impose and they deserve the same pity and sympathy they gave to Mr.Byrd who had done nothing to harm them.

I do believe the bar of proof should be sky high when it comes to death penalty cases. Only with incontrovertible proof should the death penalty be imposed. Anything short of that should be life in prison. Scott Peterson for example. That was a heinous, brutal and senseless murder-- heartbreaking, but they don't have him dead to rights on it so I couldn't vote for the death penalty in that case.


There you go. If you have more questions I look forward to doing my best to answer them as well.

Cindy

Rob Ewen,

Hello.

:)

That's a lovely distraction. I needed it. A fascinating inconsistency!

Cindy




Frankie,
You have nothing to worry about.
;)

Hi Neal,
Respectfully,
:)
Cindy

und.....
The Fan at the End of the Line on the Edge of Forever

I Have No Last Dangerous Vision and I Must Scream

"Move over, Rover" said Blood

The Eyelet near the End of the Shoelace

Harlan Wins !
As you would expect, Harlan came up with the best title:

Corn'n'Salsa Come Back Up Intact


I smell another award.....then again, maybe we just need to open the windows for a bit.

-TODD

Ellison titles

A Fistful of Yarbels.

FAQ

Abandoned Harlan titles
Ok, here goes...

I'm So Hungry If I Had Bread I'd Make a Sandwich, If I Had Meat

Dirk Daring and The Pygmy Marmosets of Doom: A Play in Two Acts, With a Fifteen Minute Intermission in Between to Visit the Head and Get Popcorn, and Not Necessarily in that Order

gentle afterthought

Don't give up your day jobs.

GEEZUS H. BENNY THE GRIFT, WHAT A STEAMING PILE'A COW PIES IS THOSE THEM THERE TITLE SUJJESTCHINZ.
AWKKKK
HACK
COUGH
GURGLE
ECHHH
URP
WHEEZE
KAFFKAFF
BLECHH
YUCK
PUKE
!!!

Respectfully, and oh look, corn'n'salsa come back up intact,

Yr. pal, HonkHonkPeeeeeeyew!

Because I'm waiting for a call.
Titles

Grifting Ares

A Soft, Wet Kiss of Asphalt

Rushing Mr. Newberry

A Brainpan on the Back Burner

The Wisdom of Good Cheese

The Clown Who Ate Chocolate Children

Wired for Zounds

Cindy, you leaving me for Alan? hehe.

Kris: Let's not be obfuscatory. Your post wasn't a defense of Texas, it was a defense of George W. Bush. I beg to differ, and I will whip some more statistics on you to prove it.

From the Center on Juvenile and Criminal Justice, "Since 1990, Texas has lead the nation's 50 states with an annual average growth rate of 11.8%, about twice the annual average growth rate of other state prison systems (6.1%). Even more important to the national context, since 1990, nearly one in five new prisoners added to the nation's prisons (18%) was in Texas." The prison population peaked in Texas in 1999, when it pulled ahead of California for most people imprisoned (even though California has 13 million more people living in it). Not to mention that Bush executed 152 people, and here's an easy stat for you-- it's the #1 most killingest state in the Union.

How do you exonerate Bush for that? How do you separate the way Bush does things from the way that Texas does things, since they love them their Bushes? And why do you think that line is in any way a defense for anything? In fact, it fills me with disgust and anger and makes me think WORSE of Texas, not better.

Rather be the King of Statistics than the Emperor of Illogic,
PAB

In Defense of Texas
Yeah, I'm just a smart-ass lurker (although I used to be a regular here in the days when Harlan only participated through Rick), and I've commented on this Cindy thing only directly to Cindy with what little assistance I had, and reserving doubts, although I have them, because at least she's involved. But I have to say, I do not think the situation Cindy finds herself tangled in should be another excuse to take a swipe at Texas, although two well-reasoned frequent posters have recently.

DTS made a comment Friday (?) (I'm behind) about how these sort of things happen here. Yeah, they do. And they happen in New York, where police officers sodomize arrestees, and they happen in Los Angeles, where police officers merely beat the crap out of them. Crooked judges and perverted police officers infect the justice system in every State in this Union, and to even imply that this is a "Texas" problem is pure head-in-the-sandism that permits the implier to proudly refuse to examine his own small universe for parasites. NIMBY, baby, NIMBY.

And then PAB made like the King of Statistics and tossed out some numbers which I'm sure, having worked in the Texas criminal justice system, are absolutely correct. At least, they match my anecdotal experience. And the only bitch that I had with them was the claim that these numbers are the result of Bush having been governor here. Now, I am unsure of whether or not you could say those numbers reached their "worst" levels during the Bush governorship, and I won't quibble with statistics. But Bush's governorship had less to do with those numbers than "the way Texans do things." I offer neither criticism nor defense of "the way Texans do things," but it's NOT a result of W., as the attitudes and methods that created the circumstances the statistics represent predate Texas statehood in some cases.

Finally, I have worked with many, many fine, dedicated law enforcement officers in the State of Texas, and practiced before a bench that includes some of the finest and fairest legal minds in this country. I have caught my share of lying officers, and I have stood before my share of power-happy judges, but I would not think a prosecutor in Texas has this experience more than one in Delaware or Montana or New Jersey.

My $.02.

Okay, Here Goes...

All the Travails Within My Life - Working Route 5, Driving the Porcelain Bus

Hearing Life's End In The Screams of Diced Carrots

Toast Has Never Let Me Down

I Have No Title, But The Story's Still Good

***HE story title***
AL WILSON HAS A JOB FOR YOU

abandoned Ellison story titles

STONHENGE PLINTH: A METAMORPHIC DEPOSITION IN 5 PIEBALD COLORS AND 9 FONTS.

Submit your own HE title
Howdy folks,

I've been looking in periodically and like what I've seen in this
group. And I just couldn't resist the opportunity to submit a
title. Take it easy.

my title: GIVE ME A CALL NEXT YESTERDAY

Suggest Your Own HE Title!

Here's an enjoyable little game: Suggest your own title for a crazy Harlan story!

Mine: BASSET HOUNDS FROM THE 11th DIMENSION

by suggestion


Todd:

most recently I have Solugub, Clark Ashton Smith and Howard Fast suggested by Unca Harlan. over the many years i have been especially enamoured of Fritz Leiber.

there are so many: Arthur Byron Cover is a stand-out, of course. both Finney's, Jack and Charles (Todd, Charles Finney was a newspaperman in our very own Tucson, AZ). Kersh goes without saying (and anyone who has not read "Crooked Bone" should do so before their next Webderland post.) Jacek Yerka, and Henry Miller for goodness sake. John Fante. Jorge Luis Borges was HUGE.

It really pays to pay attention to Harlan's suggestions.

Also saw "Brazil" and "The Prisoner" based on "the Man's" recommendation. WHEW!

Regards,

Neal

Another Convert
Friday before last a good friend of mine (one I’ve worked with for over 20 years) came into my office as I was listening to On the Road Vol. 2. He wound up staying for the entire thing. (I even had to go back to the beginning.) I then got him a copy of “Scenes from the Real World: 1”. He loved it. He now is working his way through my copy of Troublemakers. (There is something funny about a 50-year old getting his first real taste of Harlan from a “teen” book.)

I think we have a convert.

Mike

I would love a two-CD edition of one entire HE lecture, including question and answer and a reading. I've been to a half dozen such events and they sometimes last over three hours. It's like a steam-rolling Guided By Voices concert. Dig it!

On the Road 2
Received my copy today from Deep Shag, and it turns out I badly needed my Ellison fix today. Good work! I think Deep Shag is reading? Since Harlan reported making available tons of audio material, I was surpised to see only material from three occasions included. Which automatically leads one to assume there will be at least one more volume, as indicated also in the essay. With regard to that, I would hope two things: 1. yes, that the CD be filled up entirely (75+ minutes, the material is there) and 2. that the next volume will have on it a little more "normal" business instead of mostly "crowd pleasers" (bad word choice though that may be). I haven't been to a lecture (I somehow missed Harlan's last German tour), nor have I heard anything but the two cd's, but I don't think the cd's are as representative of the lectures as they could be, nor as faithful a reflection of Harlan. (Why should they be representative? Because Harlan has chosen to entertain the audience in a certain way.) In other words, more non-anecdotal stuff which Deep Shag may have hesitated to put on would be fine with me. I think I, and perhaps others, would actually be even more entertained by it. (Then again, perhaps it is representative? I can't tell.) We have vol 1 & 2 now, and will cherish them forever, so vol 3 can be a little different. With regards to the "datedness" of some material, I'm glad Deep Shag doesn't mind and will continue to, well, leave the historical context of the lectures intact.

Two more little observations/critiques... the sound engineering could have been better on the I, ROBOT story, although some effort was definitely made.. and track 1 and 13 seemed superfluous to me, retreading material from other tracks or vol 1. I love tracks 2-7, 8-13 are slightly less captivating, track 14 is terrific, although I would have cut out the last few words and let the thing stand.

The cover photo was taken in Europe, I can see a German car. The newspaper looks French, so it could be be Paris. (Est-ce que Harlan peut parler francais?!)

Jan

LIFE AND DEATH OF COLONEL BLIMP
Just watched on DVD: "The Life and Death of Colonel Blimp". A rich, funny, emotionally effecting, and passionate story of forty years in the life of a British Army officer, beginning at the twilight of his life when he's a big fat walrus-moustached cliche and then providing us with the events that left him that way. Made in 1943, it contains two of the greatest movie speeches I have ever heard. EVER. Winston Churchill didn't want it seen, as he thought it insulting to the Army at a time of war; he also disapproved of the titular officer's lifelong friendship with a german officer, that survives one duel, one life triangle, and two world wars. Churchill had his head up his ass on this one; the we-must-buckle-down-and-fight-the-nazis message is very strong. The film is almost unknown in the US, but is definitely a classic. If you have a chance to catch this one, please do...

Touching the Void is the best documentary of the year and perhaps the best film of the year (The Saddest Music in the World is the only 2004 film I might have enjoyed more.)

And is there anything rarer in cinema than a film which actually DOESN'T force the poor deluded skeptic to realize there really is a God and really is a meaning to everything that happens? If there aren't atheists in foxholes, this film shows there are still atheists at the bottom of giant ice crevasses.

It's a beautiful, lyrical film that encapsulates almost everything I value in the documentary form. Twenty lashes to the first schmuck who says "it's not really a documentary" because it uses recreations and all sorts of, gasp!, creative elements.

IT TOUCHED MY SPECIAL AREA

Aside from girls stripping at a frat party...

I was transfixed by my first experience with TOUCHING THE VOID on PBS tonight (if you can't touch a BABE it might as well be a VOID. Right?). I saw myself symbolically in the near fatal ascent these climbers took to scale the hitherto unclimbed Siula Grande in the Andes. The events here projected an imagery any of us could relate to as it shifted between reality, surrealism, and hallucination. I’ve always seen myself as one climbing the ledges, never being sure that I’m going make it, reminding myself never to look down and keep my ass on the MOVE. This was an incredible piece, man; I internalilzed just about every shot. I wrote lots of notes.

I drive SOME friends nuts with these fixations - these inspirations - because I really don't give 'em much choice but to get into it. We narcissists have our needs, y’know.

Well, the parables of ESCAPE seemed to be the common theme for me this week: I ran the films COOL HAND LUKE, PRESSURE POINT, SHAWSHANK REDEMPTION (ironically motivated to run it after Steve Evil's single-handed, and single-minded, deep sixing of the film), and THE GREAT ESCAPE.

I’d like to comment quickly, like a silly, excited kid jumping up and down, about the last on that list.

I don’t know if there are any GREAT ESCAPE devotees here, but NOVA ran an incredible segment about the real Great Escape, the real men represented by Richard Attenborough, McQueen, and Jim Garner. The Nazis never found one of the 3 tunnels the POWs dug in their venture to get 200 out of Stalag Luft III in WWII. Scientists recently found it and brought 3 survivors from the actual escape to see it once more. The 1962 film was extremely accurate; yet, when you meet the real people involved it captures the imagination all over again.

I proceeded to read more about the real Big X, the mastermind of the great escape played by Attenborough (Roger Bartlett in the film). His name was Roger Bushell. The man and his life would in itself justify a film. He was charismatic, multi-talented, brilliantly resourceful, and intensely driven. His later experiences in the prison camps, constantly escaping and being recaptured, and playing a dangerous cat-and-mouse game with the SS holds some of the most compelling story material I’ve seen ANYWHERE. For all his ingenuity his luck in eluding capture would have been hysterical had it not met such a grisly conclusion (his death takes place off-screen in the movie; but it was really quite sick; at least the SS thugs who murdered him and the other 50 at Hitler's orders were all hanged). It’s like the stuff Shakespeare would use if he were alive today. I’d love to take a crack at gathering material for a script about Bushell. If I can’t do a bio I’ll use the man as a basis for something.

Here’s a great link to read about him and about the real Great Escape (comparing the events to what you see in Sturges’ film):

http://www.pegasus-one.org/pow/roger_bushell.htm
http://www.historyinfilm.com/escape/index.htm

I think you may agree with me.

lessee
Todd - I'm pretty new to Harlan's literary (as opposed to film) opinions - if HE turned me on to anything, it was Doctor Who (blush) or a few movies maybe (mostly by his not hating them!) I've seen Westlake recommended by several other writers though, so I've been looking for some...he wrote an awful lot of novels and it seems as if only a few are still in print or even in libraries. (THE HOT ROCK seems easy to find - wasn't that the first of his Dortmunder novels? Probably it hangs around cause it was made into a film that gets reshown on cable TV a lot!)

On the other hand, my father has some Dostoevsky on his shelf...have to get to BROTHERS KARAMAZOV, THE POSSESSED, and the anthology that has NOTES FROM THE UNDERGROUND in it (all nice compact Random House Modern Library editions) after I finish reading all the stories in my Ellison books, my borrowed-from-the-library Ellison books, and the Charles de Lint novel SPIRITS IN THE WIRES as well as Simmons' ILIUM (both of those are public library books too so I have limited time).

Finder- awesome. How long had that request been up, anyway?

Kristin

harlan's influence...
I think Harlan has influenced me more in the way of film than anything else, though I think both in film and literature he caused me to step outside the genre ghetto a lot more than I might have if left to my own devices.


As of last week I no longer work for Borders. We're heading back to the Central Valley, to help look after my father-in-law.
It's nothing too severe, just that he had a stroke a few years back and has trouble keeping up with things [he has his utilities shut off, etc.] He's a great guy and I'm glad we're going to be spending more time together--my wife and I are his main family. The job market is a little rough where I'm going but we'll make it. This may well be my second lengthy bout of unemployment over the last year and a half and this time I hope I'm a little better prepared. I just plan to read a lot, write as much as possible, take some college courses [so I can get a second bachelors in something marketable] and take a good long walk every day. Things could be a hell of a lot worse.

Now if we can just get through with the annoyance of moving things will be fine--I think I'm dreading the next couple of days more than anything else.

Doug:

In a word, holy gadzoely betty spaghetti!

I is in awesomefulicityness of you, son.

Yr. pal, Harlan

I am in awe of Mr. Finder's abilities. I thought I had a knack for procurement, learned from scuffling around in the Army and an addict's single-minded focus. I haven't exactly made it my mission, but I was keeping an eye and ear peeled for "Knife in the Darkness", but...

Truly, Doug, you are the man.

And, thanks, Harlan.

BARNEY - The Wikipedia solution might be more simple than first imagined. I'll ping you tomorrow, early evening with a thought or two.

HARLAN - My spatulate pinkies have a secured a copy of Stardance Entertainment's 1994 VHS release of "Knife In The Darkness". It will be on in its way to you this week via the HERC address. It's used, but it's in good shape, it's got its box, and it plays. I'll enclose the pertinent details with the tape. And lo, The Finder keeps on rolling...

Hey, Jono, procrastination over: with the swiftly approaching post Thanksgiving deadline looming, I have tossed my Ellison Collection inventory onto the other board. A bit messy, and I had to cut my comments since Excel isn't good for that board, but it's done and I'm pooped.

Everyone, while scanning my home for Ellison stuff, I had a thought: How many of us have books on our shelves solely due to recommendation made by Harlan in an interview or article. Not a review (though that's how I found Dan Simmons), but a casual or pointed comment in an interview about a book he loved?

Off the top of my head, I can say that one of my favorite novels ever, Doctorow's Ragtime, was purchased and read because of something Harlan said in an interview. Same with Robert Coover's The Public Burning. Same with all of my Westlake books (no specific book was mentioned; only the author as one of his favorites).

I know I have some others.....and I know I have many books that I know he loves, but those I books I bought anyway. But Ragtime and Public Burning are favorites and would never have been read without a comment made by Harlan in an interview. Same with the Westlake books. I also have a Gerald Kersh collection, bought at a ReaderCon where Harlan was the living guest of honor and Gerald was the, ahem, deceased guest of honor. Haven't gotten to that one yet.

-TODD

Alex Jay and Rick:

My thanks for clarification, I was a bit confused at both the subject matter and number of posts, just too far afield for my reading. After years of dealing with alt.fan.harlanellison, I felt I'd wandered back into that exercise of futility.

Under different circumstances I would take more interest, but right now the time and concern are far better served digging out from the Everest of bills left over from treatment (Any who claim that the Canadian system is perfect should investigate how many procedures and patient support options have been de-listed by government over the last ten years), the need for home and sustenance, and the annual godawful season where I feel like shit at not being able to repay the huge kindnesses given by my family with some meagre token of esteem.

For what it's worth, things can work out for people, if you stay with it.

Sometimes.

Wuthering Heights and the Miracle Door

Cindy,

Sorry to distract you from your legal dealings, but I couldn't help but notice your love for Miss Bronte's meisterwerk.

I studied WUTHERING HEIGHTS at college, and recall a teacher pointing out to me an error in the text. The details are a little hazy now, but Nelly Dean is locked in her room by Heathcliff (I think), and she bemoans his treatment of her. A couple of paragraphs later, and a boy is sent up with her lunch on a tray.

Nelly OPENS THE DOOR HERSELF to receive the lunch and closes it again, and then on the next page somebody unlocks the door and lets her out.

The magic of fiction! I'm not rubbishing the book, of course, but I guess it's not only Harlan's work that suffered from erratic publisher proofreading.....

Ah- ever the honest man!
Who was it said "love your enemies for they tell you your faults?'

It's nice to see this site as a place for well-informed critiques and Harlan standing up for intellectual honesty. Hero worship (even of Cindy!) is a dangerous thing; none of us is God; human beings are fallible. Sometimes one does need to swallow one's pride.

who said "Have an open mind but not so open your brain falls out of the holes?" (I seem to keep remembering quotations but not who they're from.) That's probably the most important thing to teach one's kids in an age of information overload.

kristin

Cindy,
Some questions regarding your latest posting about the Berrelles case.What was Mr Berrelles doing when he was pepper sprayed on two occasions by Deputy Low? Are we to believe that Deputy Low simply acted on a sadistic whim or is there a possibility that Mr Berrelles' actions may have instigated the use of pepper spray? Given his past convictions, how credible is Mr Berrelles'word,or in fact the testimony of others who have claimed abuse at the hands of the Mason County Sheriff's Department? PLease note this would be a determining factor of anyone investigating these claims as well as a factor in any defense if these claims are brought before a civil or criminal court. Does there exist any video tape which could either back up Mr Berrelles' claim of abuse or perhaps exonerate Deputy Low?
You go on in your posting to make several claims regarding Mr Berrelles' subsequent arrest, trial, and conviction which I find questionable and would request clairification. How does the Southwest Texas Drug Task Force factor in with the Mason County Sheriff's Department? I am unable to find any information regarding this organization but would assume that it's name implies a state or district run law enforcement group. Are you now claiming that the allegations you have made extend beyond Mason County? If so how wide spread is this conspiracy?
You made several pointed statements about the quantity of meth that lead to Mr Berrelles' arrest. Are you insinuating that a police officer currently employed by the Brady Police Department Is using drugs? Could the difference in weight be attributed to Mr Berrelles' scale being misadjusted? Could the .4 gram difference represent amounts used in testing? or could the differing amounts be atributed to tare weight? Also, were the amounts mentioned total amounts or the did they represent pure drug content?
Finally, given attorney Laird Palmer's(Merle) comments that had he repesented Mr Berrrelles he would have advised Mr Berrelles to accept a Plea bargain it seems reasonable to assume that the state had a relatively strong case against Mr Berrelles
D.W.Pareis

WHY DIDN'T THE REST OF YOU THINK OF THIS ?
In defense of Rich and his postings:

Taking the Devil's Advocate position, and sternly requiring Cindy to address the questions/possibilities WE haven't thought of, can ONLY be of value to Cindy for the very reason Rich proffers: OTHERS, less affectionate toward Cindy than we, less trusting and in some cases illogically bent on discrediting her, dismissing her, subverting her, than we ... will most certainly cobble up rat-hole reasons for an offhand dismissal of this "purty but silly time-wastin' housewife."

In fact, as valuable and supportive as our attentions to Cindy's ongoing crusade may be, as heartwarming and familial as our "go git'm, girl!"s may be ... Rich's demands for clarity, however phrased, may ultimately stand our Texican Jean d'Arque in more serviceable, more constructive stead.

It cannot but serve Cindy well to keep thinking at this problem from all sides ... because the enemy, if not smarter, may well be more cunning, and certainly is less constrained by rules and the vagaries of Playing Fair.

Yr. pal, Harlan

Alan said, "[questioning] with an attitude that seems to imply that Cindy is just wrong or even just an emotional female, I get perturbed."

The first part I'll somewhat cop to, but the "emotional female" part was nowhere in my post. "Emotional female" is so far from what I would even say or think; nevermind the sexism implied, but I'm quite emotional myself sometimes.

To wit, the first part, un-to wit, I'm not saying Cindy is wrong, but I am expressing doubts as to the validity of some of the things she's saying. There was not much detail in her post about Hector and what was posted does not seem to be reasonable grounds to start signing petitions for Hector's release. That post, coupled with some of the things I saw that weren't fully explained in the other posts, was what prompted me to make my statement. I stated my doubts and was met with "proof's in the pudding". Not exactly the kind of comeback that courts of law would enthusiastically embrace.

A few things to clarify my postion on Cindy's tribulations:

---She can post whatever she wants about this stuff. It's a free country and the Patron has given permission for her to post as necessary.
---Valid questions have been raised in regards to Cindy's posts. As long as Cindy posts, there will be some response to those posts.
---Details. Cindy's posts lack some key details. Doesn't really matter on this board 'cause I'm no judge and I'm certainly no lawyer and this ain't no court. But, I do hope she takes some of these questions and thoughts and makes notes 'cause they're the same questions and thoughts that someone else will ask.

Oh, one last thing: As far as "proof to the opposite", Alan, that's impossible. No one's shown any proof about anything other than what's been posted on this board. The fact that it's Cindy that's doing the posting was proof enough for me in the beginning and if anyone else had come on here with what's been posted, you definitely wouldn't have seen the support you're now seeing. But, it's Cindy and we're giving her the benefit of the doubt.

Or, rather, I was giving her the benefit of the doubt. Nothing would please me more than for her to send me a postcard saying, "Oh, man of little faith, I told you so."

And that's all I've got to say on the subject.

Cindy
Harlan has expressed interest in Cindy's doings and asked that she continue to report here. I've therefore given her permission to post as much as she wants per day. It remains on topic for this board for as long as Harlan cares for it to be.

As for the questioning - I think it's certainly fair to question. However, this does not mean simply (and sometimes horribly inconsiderately and callously) expressing doubt or scoffing is not questioning, it's just being disdainful and a little bit mean. Let's keep the questions as informed and civil as that which we are questioning.

PAB,

I never meant to suggest that no one should question Cindy. But if someone responds with an attitude that seems to imply that Cindy is just wrong or even just an emotional female, I get perturbed. Nobody knows what Cindy does about this situation. Is she emotionally involved? Definitely, just as I am emotionally involved with the relatively minor problem I have with my boss. Others don't feel my emotions, but I certainly do. Is Cindy right? I have to say that she thinks she is. Until there is proof to the opposite, I choose to believe her and support her.

And yes, I am a Bleeding-Heart Liberal.
______________________

As this site is about Harlan Ellison, I must say that I am extremely sorry that HE is not my uncle. If he were, I could form an excuse to have dinner with him a couple-three times a year. I am such the person I am because of Harlan, even though I didn't meet him until many years after he first began to influence my life.

Peace.

Cindy:

I look forward to your posts, hard to read or otherwise. It must be unbelievably hard for you, fighting the good fight down in Mason, and then you have to come here and debate everyone here! I don't have a book to offer you, but will a big hug and a "You rock!" from Orange County do?

You're a kick-ass kinda gal--we need so many more of those these days!

Mary

MICHEAL: As Harlan has requested of Cindy that she keep checking in and keep him (and us) posted, there is a reason she's keeping her stuff on the board here.

Alan Coil, you do realize your response to Rich is basically, "If you question or criticize Cindy's allegations, you should just shut up and not read her posts," right? But remember, some of us do come here to read the board, and we like Cindy, so we usually give her posts at least a look-through. But according to you, if we don't have anything to say but agreement, we should cease to read her posts and any responses to her. That seems a bit ridiculous, doesn't it? I don't know if that's what this board is about. Last time I checked it was about Harlan Ellison, and the basic spirit of Ellison, which would definitely entail reading things skeptically and offering your informed opinion.

Enough out of me,
PAB

Barney - You didn't get my gopher?

Damn. And he was a rascal to scrape up, too...

I'm likely to get the shitrain for his query, but I'll fire it anyway:

Why couldn't Cindy and Faisal take their crusades over to the other board for discussion? It seems to me that the header on this page asks us to try to keep this somewhat to discussion of things Ellison, rather than the local police beat.

Granted, I've taken things slightly askew myself, but I'm trying to keep it both brief and more to the point. I'm not stating whether or not either Cindy or Faisal are lying, it's just that their epics are too long and entirely off topic, and scrolling pass leaves me concerned that I might miss something of value.

Well, the Wikipedia entry stayed up for only a few hours. Everything was changed back except my alteration of Harlan's place of birth. I have no real hope for this either as his birthplace was changed at least once before from Cleveland to Painesville by non-webderlanders who "knew better". The reason given for the change back from my changes was that I had pasted what may be copyright material to the site, and frankly, they may be / almost certainly are right, in that the Webderland biography page almost certainly is covered by some sort of site copyright blanket. If there is a way around this it would probably be to include more and more factual information of a non-partisan nature while leaving the partisan stuff stand. Since they left my bibliographical additions alone they don't seem militantly opposed to simple facts. It's just not, y'know, whatchacallit, a priority.

Since it would be a much slower process, and in order to be done right would require me to learn Wikipedia formatting and spend more time there policing the damned thing then tending to my family, don't anticipate me tackling this overnight. But there are more of us then them so perhaps a process of accretion might work.

To answer Kristen, yes, that was me. Where my name appears on the net, as far as I've ever seen that's me. The advantage of a unique name. And I never use pseudonyms, so if you ever see something you'd like to think was me and my name isn't there, it wasn't. It's not that big a deal. The only hate mail I've ever received was from Webderlanders. Exactly 2 pieces in 10 years. No dead gophers, no strange phone calls. I absolutely believe if you disagree with someone and you're willing to sign your name you will almost always be treated with more, rather than less respect. Even if this is not the case you have to proceed as though it were true. You just have to.

- Barney

Cindy - Frankly she can post what she wants here as this was the request made by most of the group given the somewhat dangerous territory she's moving in. What Cindy is posting is an informal journal, her dossier is apparently something that would take up a lot of space here so don't expect court room standard testimony here. She's doing the best she can and she has my support for that.

As far as I understand, Cindy is dealing with local law enforcement authorities who are corrupt as hell and sometimes that means also dealing with individuals who are not angels when it comes to their own behaviour. Given colleagues who have to report on the same issues in the UK, its takes real skill to report and spot tedious details that can be built up bit by bit to prevent it falling on its face. Cindy is trying to do that without the resources of a newspaper or broadcaster behind her. For that she's got my support.The story below will show a personal reason why, I won't go further into the others.

---------

A friend of mine, Jim Hemingway, who worked my old film school had been undergoing years of bullying by a senior member of staff at Leeds Metropolitan University, Denise York.

I can name this woman safetly as what I will relate will not be libel and is allowed under UK law. She was a corrupt woman who used the staff and students at the film school to further the career of herself and her son.

(http://www.yorkshiretoday.co.uk/ViewArticle2.aspx?SectionID=55&ArticleID=826441)

In the Summer of 2004, Fabian Hamilton MP (your equivalent of a senator), stood up in Westminister Hall and made the following statement:

"http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200304/cmhansrd/cm040721/halltext/40721h04.htm#40721h04_head0"

"I have good reason to believe that the course leader [Denise York] used her position to manipulate staff and students for her own political ends and at the expense of the courses that she was meant to manage. I have many examples of statements, as well as e-mails and memorandums, from students and staff who supported Jim's [Hemingway] case. The Minister may have that file after this debate. "

Denise York was transferred from her position of course leader and is now safetly away from trying to detrimentally effect other students careers. This statement was only made through the collection of tedious details that bit by bit illustrated a course leader who abused, bullied and lied to get her own way to the detriment of students educations. And if by some chance, she comes across this posting, all I'll point out is that those who resisted her reign (Kim Moore, myself and a good few other folks) went onto to get some success in the industry. The one's who supported her actively or by staying silent... have yet to find their voices to be heard.

FAQ

CINDY,

I can see the "abysmal loss". I can't see the "delight".

Cindy, what you're positing about what Alan said is no different from what I posited in terms of end result -- both end in no questioning or criticism. Remember when I had the prolonged shoving match with Eric back in June over on the other board? I wasn't kidding when I said recently that the experience was beneficial later because, as much as a pain in the ass as he was and as angry as I was at him at the time, he supplied a valuable critique.

I don't doubt your motives and I do believe you're fighting the good fight -- but the people taking pokes at you here are as valuable as the people supporting you, as painful and as irritating as it may be to have Eric show up and say 'Could I see some proof?' or to have rich say 'I'm not following this at this point.' It is not a bad thing to have people who've demonstrated that they have good minds in the past to ask questions of you and to even take shots at you on a board like this when you're attempting something like what you seem to be attempting. I don't want to sound Matrixesque (or Yodaesque) but there are times when your apparent enemies are your friends because they act as devil's advocates. Not all the time, but at times.

Now, who's up for some punch and pie?

Cheers, Jon

Cindy, I have some questions about Hector's sentence. Was he only arrested for possession and distribution of that one eight-ball? Seems likely that when he was arrested, he probably had a lot more than that laying around if he was dealing. If you have 5 grams of meth, that's a US mandatory minimum sentence of 3-10 years, even if it's a first offence (http://www.angelfire.com/rnb/y/mandatory.htm#mand). Add onto that violation of parole AND a record, the time could easily go to 12 years.

Was Hector convicted of dealing in the past? Does he claim that he did not sell the cop any meth, or does he claim he just didn't sell her 4g? And aside from that, if he was in possession of any amount >5g plus a scale, even if that's not sold to an undercover agent, he's got a mandatory minimum sentence to face.

Also, why are you upset about a drug dealer who violated parole going to jail? Aren't you a Republican? Those guys love mandatory minimum sentencing, harsh punishment of drug dealers, and long jail sentences in general. Texas loves to throw people in prison. It has has twice the number of people incarcerated as NY does. More Texans are under correctional supervision than the entire population of Alaska, Wyominng, VT, or Washington DC--it's 5% of the adult population, or 1 in 20! African American incarceration rates are 7x higher than for whites in Texas--24% of black men in Texas are under criminal justice control. All this, but none of it has had a deterrent effect on crime in Texas. (all stats from http://www.cjcj.org/pubs/texas/)

This is the legacy of the Bush governorship of Texas because all of the above situations came about in the mid-1990's. If you object to these high sentences for drug-related offenses and high rates of incarceration with no attendant effect on your crime rate, you should protest those in a meaningful way. However, if the law is just doing it's job, who are you mad at? You voted for the guy and his cronies. This is the fruit of that choice.

Again, this is posted with all due respect, in the spirit of open debate,
PAB

Cat Stevens should be laughing his ass off
At New York's Kennedy Airport today, an individual later discovered to be a
public school teacher was arrested trying to board a flight while in
possession of a ruler, a protractor, a set square, a slide rule, and a
calculator. At a morning press conference, Attorney General John Ashcroft
said he believes the man is a member of the notorious al-gebra movement. He
is being charged by the FBI with carrying weapons of math instruction. He
also said he thinks the man was out to "teach somebody a lesson".

"Al-gebra is a fearsome cult," Ashcroft said, "They desire average
solutions by means and extremes, and sometimes go off on tangents in a
search of absolute value.

They use secret code names like 'x' and 'y' and refer to themselves a
'unknowns', but we have determined they belong to a common denominator of
the axis of medieval with coordinates in every country. As the Greek
philanderer Isosceles used to say, "there are 3 sides to every triangle'."

When asked to comment on the arrest, President Bush said, "If God had
wanted us to have better weapons of math instruction, He would have given
us more fingers and toes."

Hummm!
The Faisal thread seems to be a branch of the Cindy thread, but I know much less about it other than the evil system being just as evil in the UK as Hollywood. I do not want to get involved with it and regret sounding as if I had.

Wikipedia, I understand is a kind of experiment in anarchy. The idea is that people will correct each other to cancel out the BS. It's another technolibertarian thing, kind of like Wired magazine. Yes, the factual errors need to be cleaned up. Well I haven't seen the article in question; maybe the reporter thought he/she was trying to be fair....is it really "giving equal time to Harlan's enemies" or just admitting they exist? Infuriating though it can be, the law protects free speech even for people who don't like you unless you can prove it fits the legal definition of libel or slander. ("Character assassination" is not a legal term to my knowledge. But I agree, writing scurrilous things should be beneath someone who calls himself a "professional.")

There needs to be a way of rating content for credibility - and also of noting "conflicts of interest" that indicate the author of an online article might be biased (one way or the other.) This is an official site, so of course we are biased right here!

Barney, I saw the online so-called "reviews" of Mr Priest's ah....screed....on Amazon.com. Are you the same Barney who was just about the only person there willing to give an actual name? The Amazon review system lends itself to abuse since people can hide behind anonymity. Thanks for defending Unca Harlan, although - when people ask do you note that yes, you are his friend? (You must get a few hate mails! Brave of you.) It's horrifying to think how close they came to giving a Hugo Award to a bit of nasty...feuding.

Which reminds me, I might end up selling my membership to the Worldcon (Interaction) in Scotland. (And did you notice who their UK guest of honor is? Is that the same guy? I hope things don't get ugly....) I have always wanted to visit Britain, but either I won't have the airfare money or I'll be too busy earning it to get away. (No, I don't think I'm gonna get the job I interviewed for. The day didn't go to well overall...aw well, back to trying...gonna fax my resume to a temp agency.) Dunno what I'll get for it. Barter, maybe. One hundred British pounds buys a hand frame knitted (machine made but one at a time on a cottage industry scale) Shetland Isles made allover-patterned Fairisle sweater...real authentic! I know a couple sites where you can order stuff like that.

Didn't Bruce Sterling say "information wants you to give me a dollar?" Reading the liner notes to On the Road Vol 2, all I can say is.....gee, who needs lawyers when you could bring back trial by champion! Susan sure can sigh with relief though that that "kid" (did you ever get it figured out whether it was at MIT or an sf convention?) wasn't....suicidal....no headlines the next day "AUTHOR, 68 (or so) JAILED FOR BEATING UP 20-YEAR OLD STUDENT." Whew! Settling a case with one's fists, though....the idea is, well...interesting....I wasn't here until after the lawsuit got settled (!) but I totally agree creators have a right to be paid. As Heinlein said, TANSTAAFL. (there aint no such thing as a free lunch).

Cindy: be happy...you earned it! Nice warm fuzzy autographed book to cuddle up with for an early Christmas present! (lol - we know what Harlan really writes about) Harlan, that is really sweet of you. As for me, my order is in the mail. One of each book, $63 plus shipping as Susan said. Oh, and I wrote on the order form...tell them (your secretary/box packers, etc) not to throw in another mouse pad or Dream Corridor #3 this time. I got two of each in a month with different orders, you folks are so generous. You must be up to your ears in the things or something....well I have rather less living space at the moment.

Many of the people I know are in fandom and I haven't even let on my dirty little secret that I'm not only reading Ellison but posting on this site....I don't know, it's not like people really have nothing better to talk about than how much they love/hate Harlan, so I worry about stirring up controversy. I don't *think* local fandom is full of Harlan-haters - they did invite ya to BayCon back when, 93? 94? but they are heavily into convention-running politics, so... Some things are best not talked about because they open old wounds. (Yeah, I plead guilty.)

Kristin

Harlan and Susan,
I shake my head in wonder and gratitude.

Thank you. Thank you both for the gift.
Cindy


Ah Jon,
He never said they didn't have the right to voice their opinions, love. He said if he doesn't believe, if he thinks I'm lying or if it offends his sensibilities he can quit reading what I post. I think that's sound advice.

I'm sorry it's such a lengthy report.
Cindy


Benjamin!
As for Wuthering Heights, you are far afield, oh light o' my existence. That's a beautiful, BEAUTIFUL tale, well crafted and sharp as the needles of a turkey pear. I've re-read it every year or so since I was a kid in school-- yes, since wheels were made of stone. It has yet to disappoint. Open your heart, sweet boy and take another look-- it's all there, the pain, the loveliness, the delight and abysmal loss of being human and loving another human soul completely.

Please try it again with an open heart, you'll see it, I swear you will!

Cindy


Alan Coil,
I love you.
:)

I just saw a SOUTH PARK episode where Stan was forced into voting for a new school mascot - between a big douche and a turd sandwich. The parallels between the episode and this year's election were not-so-subtle.

I remember my own post, sometime before election night, and I SPECIFICALLY remember how shrill and desperate it was. I didn't have the right to vote, so I insisted that others should. Now I feel resopinsible for forcing individuals to choose between a douche and a turd. I feel like the member of a lynch mob, and it feels really ugly.

Goddamnit, who would have thought a SOUTH PARK episode could depress me? I must be in a weakened state from being forced to read pessimistic trash like WUTHERING HEIGHTS and WOMEN IN LOVE.

I need sleep. Goodnight.

Alan, with all due respect, rich and 'the other guy' have every right to comment on the Cindy thread (actually, let's upgrade that to The Cindy Tapestry, though that sounds like a long-lost collaboration between Guy Gavriel Kay and Judy Blume).

Yours in Christ, Jon

getting somewhat caught up

Guys:

Did anybody here see Harlan’s performance of “Five Miles Down” last week? I don’t remember seeing any assessments.

I had hernia surgery last week so that partly explains why you haven’t heard from me in a while. Amazing, the stuff that came up here in my absence.

Dukes of Dixieland: I had a vinyl 33 rpm of the Dukes that I gouged