Unca Harlan's Art Deco Dining Pavilion

Archive - 7/21/2004 to 9/28/2004

Unca Harlan's Art Deco Dining Pavilion

REPLY TO JIM LEWIS

Sir:

The onerous imposition you relate has happened to me SO MANY times that I would be hard-pressed to recall this particular one midst the plethora going back close to 50 years. Though it never fails to anger me -- that you say as politely as you can, "I have to go to the bathroom" or "I can't stop to pose, I have a plane to catch" or "I'm meeting friends for lunch and I don't want to keep them waiting" or "My wife is calling me" or "I've been here for four days, signing autographs for hours at a time, walking around in full view, and making myself accessible for just such souvenirs, why do you wait till the last, most inappropriate moment to demand attention" or "what part of 'No, I'd rather not have my picture snapped right now' didn't penetrate to your cerebral dumpheap?" -- no matter how gentlemanly or strenuously I may phrase it -- there are always those one or two or three socially-maladroit showoffs who MUST try to control you by forcing you to their will in front of others. Most of the time I can stare them down or blow them off (which is where much of my "reputation" for being uncivil or ominous comes from, because how do you think the idiot will tell it when s/he bitches about it over Big Macs?) but every once in a while it's easier and quicker just to DO IT and hope the arrant shithead is killed in the parking lot soon after, run over by a U-Haul full of illegal aliens fleeing the Border Patrol.

That you have remembered this gaffe so long, and that it has disquieted you suficiently to embolden an apology, is very nice. Thank you. It speaks well of the serviceability of your ethical compass. But, in truth, it's one bit of rusty memory persiflage ready to be booted. Because I am the captain of MY ship, the master of MY fate, and I'm the one who chose to allow that festering homunculus to detain me. So it was MY responsibility, bottom-line, not yours, no matter how odious being a party to it may seem in retrospect.

Thanks again; and let it go, son.

Yr. pal, Harlan

Doc,

You are a very spirited gentleman, and I likes you fine indeed.

Thanks for letting me out of the doghouse.

Lee

Eric: Yeah, what Jim Lewis said. I think you were shooting from the hip (or from the lip) and just trying to make a point, but IMO people are largely the sum of their pasts and cultures. We can and should transcend those things, but I for one don't want to leave them behind. I can be me and let you be you while both of our identities remain intact. If only that were globally true...

FinderDoug: I spoke to Jim Davis late last week and at that point he was unscathed by all the hurricane activity. He had yet to weather Jeanne though, so I hope all is still well. I told him to call if he needed anything or things went badly, and I haven't heard from him, but that doesn't necessarily mean anything. I guess I should call him again soon...

He is seriously considering moving out of Florida though, and who can blame him?

Cindy: I really hope you win the election. Why will you abdicate? I think you'd do a great job. Keep us posted on how your election goes. I'd love to see you with a tin star and a six-shooter.

PAB

With all this talk of Computer (cartoon!) Generated Images, I really miss the days of Ray Harryhausen. Even his crudest work still looked real. He had a speaking engagement here in Toronto, and I did not go to it.

Harlan,
I just read that California had another of the ol' shake, rattle, and roll. Hope you and the missus and Ellison Wonderland are okay.

Cheers, Colleen

Hello everybody...long time listener...first time caller...I've been wanting to jump into the water here for a while, so here goes...

Everyone here has kicked this dead horse, so let me get the toe of my boot into its soft underbelly, too. I know everyone is entitled to their opinion, but I found Mr. Martin's comments to be a little disturbing.

I don't think differences of culture - and the concomitant pride in (or shame of) those differences - is the problem. So, squelching who you are (and who someone else is) in the hope that when everyone is the same all of the problems of the world will disappear is an exercise in futility.

[I think it was comedian Dennis Miller who questioned why he should hate someone based on their skin color (or culture, or religion...), when if he just got to know them he could find better reasons for hating their stinking guts.]

What I'm questioning is this: can you really say F-this and F-that about someone's culture (including your own), and then cease to be affected by that culture? I don't see how it’s possible. Unless you find someway to live without human contact - including contact with yourself.

Having said all that, I am certainly not condoning anybody's right to call violence against someone else a part of their "culture". THAT'S the real problem in the world. But shutting yourself off from the world (and what makes up that world) isn't going to solve anything.

I hope that you were just shooting from the hip, Mr. Martin.

Enough from me about all that...

Mr. Castro...are you talking about NIGHT AND FEAR? If so, I just got a copy of that collection, too. If you listen hard enough, you will hear the sound of one hand clapping (with glee!)...because I'm holding the book open with the other hand! A great collection from a great writer. Mr. Nevins should be applauded...with both hands...

I have a question for Mr. Ellison...

I saw you appear at the World Horror Convention 2000 in Denver. During your speaking gig, you mentioned the difference between Jewish humor and Gentile (?) humor. You gave an example of each. The Gentile joke was the one about the blind man's dog dragging him across a busy intersection. (I'm not rewarding him...I'm trying to find his head so I can kick him in the butt!) The Jewish one was about the old man who is given a sexy call girl by his friends. (I've come to give you super sex...So, what's the soup?) And you talked about how, for Jewish humor, the pleasure is in the build-up and the punch line is usually a cute little release of that build-up.

My question is this: is this how one should read your story LAUGH TRACK? (What...and leave show business?) Because this story immediately came to mind during your talk. Just curious...

Also...Mr. Ellison...This is something that you’ve long since forgotten, but it still sticks in my craw, so I’d like to get it off my chest. This happened at the same World Horror Convention. I'll try to keep it short.

My wife and I were staying at a B&B in Denver. Another guest was also staying there for the convention. He looked like a real-life version of Inspector Clouseau from the Pink Panther cartoon. We spoke at breakfast, and later he saved us a seat for one of the panel discussions you were part of. (David Morrell and Richard Laymon were also on the panel.) We didn't ask him to do so, but who am I to refuse front row seats?

Anyway...after the discussion was over and everyone was leaving, this guy hands me his camera and asks me to take a picture. Now, I'm not someone to say no very easily - it’s a character flaw - but I especially wished I had said it then. He accosted you as you were walking out. He asked if he could have a picture. You said that you didn't have time, that you were meeting someone (perhaps your wife?) for lunch (or dinner...the details are hazy). He pressed you, and you said fine, but hurry. He put his arms about your shoulders and turned you to me.

I wanted to melt into the carpet. I felt like such an absolute fool. You looked so angry (but you smiled nice when I said, "Cheese!").

As somebody who read your essay XENOGENESIS with a feeling of disgust for fandom, I can only say I'm sorry. I know it was just a photo, and that it wasn't anonymously signing you up for magazine subscriptions (or even a cup of warm, fresh vomit), but it made me sick to be a part of, and I’d like to apologize. For myself. Not that other guy. F**k him...and his culture...

Thanks for listening...everybody...so long...

SPOILERS: Sky Captain
Adam-Troy Castro:
Much has already been written about Sky Captain that I mostly agree with. It sacrifices heart and soul for eye-candy. For me, the major problem is the pacing/editing, particularly the first 10 minutes. It just feels completely off.

But rather than belabor points already mentioned, I want to focus on the “perfect punch line” you mentioned. I found it wonting, and I think a lot of moviegoers did too. I saw the film twice, and both times that final line landed with a thud. Here’s why: It wants to have it both ways. On the one hand, Kerry Conran, the director, wants us to go “Aww shucks, she sacrificed her final shot for an expression of love/smitteness.” But the joke—“lens cap”—only works if she had taken the photo of the landscape and parachuting menagerie. THEN it would have been funny. Who cares that she had the lens cap on while taking a picture of Sky Captain? She could take as many as she wants later. As it is now, it’s just limp. I really wish Conran had another six months to revise certain elements because I think that with the addition of 5-10 more minutes of character embellishment this could’ve been a major blockbuster akin to Raiders of the Lost Ark.

I was reminded of this while watching Empire of Dreams, the Lucas documentary on the Star Wars discs. That documentary firmly illustrates how one can turn a celluloid sow’s ear into a silk purse simply with genius editing and a fantastic score.
Dan

ERIC SPEAKS FOR ME!!!

Adam-Troy: "Thanks to CGI, anything the human mind can imagine, can be captured on film"

Sadly, we ain't quite there yet. Having followed up on what Hollywood is doing with the upcoming FF movie (you've given me the outlet to rant!), an inevitably cgi-heavy outing, I can report to you that every conceivable advantage one would expect cgi to meet is being missed. It may make the Corman atrocity seem like a Bunuel masterpiece!

The Thing will be in a suit (it looks awful!); the Torch will not be fully engulfed in flame; Sue Storm is a hispanic bleached to look caucasian; Latveria is no longer a country but a corporation (swing with the times!), and other script modifications abound to meet budget constraints. (The general casting could be better too)

A few years ago a friend of mine saw Cameron's Titanic on an expanded screen. He saw the people on the ship in full shots for what they WERE: cartoons scurrying about like Tex Avery's rodents. The new ratio didn't work. We've imroved a LITTLE since then, but not much. It's going to take some time, yet, before we can really say "ANYTHING can be captured on film".

From what I've seen and heard, the FF movie will be the biggest disappointment of ALL the comics adaptations thus far (admittedly, in large part because of the producers' creative/visonary deficiencies). It's a damn shame. In the theater or on tape/dvd, I won't give it the time of day.

Henry Miller may just crawl out of the grave as a zombie to attack that person who dissed him. lol.

Eric is about as poetic as a scab--but a cute scab.

------------

Cindy, you scare me.

basic knowledge

While I can appreciate the general thrust of your screed against divisiveness, Eric, we are speaking in a forum devoted to a writer who has repeatedly expressed his outrage over the general ignorance of average Americans -- who don't recognize references to Capra's "Lost Horizon," Dachau, or other historical and cultural mileposts.

I think most players overreacted in the recent tiff, but there was some truth in all positions. No, I don't necessarily know what state all my good friends were born in, but I would expect to know which country, were they from overseas. I had a hard time distinguishing between Iran and Iraq three or four years ago, but not anymore. Keeping some kind of tab on the news as well as reading excellent books like Nafisi's _Reading Lolita in Tehran_ and Geraldine Brooks's _Nine Parts of Desire_ helps.

To some extent, we Americans all share the casual ignorance of power: we not only have access to far more comfort and goods than the average inhabitant of this planet, but other people defer to us -- they learn our language, watch our movies and TV shows, often have to live (and die) with the messes our government and corporations bequeath to them.

Remember the line recycled by the recent Spidey movies? "With great power comes great responsibility"? Even as average Americans, we are powerful and therefore might consider ourselves obligated to go the extra mile in knowing what goes on in the world and the effects our country's actions have on it. Our current administration acts like it is impelled by such considerations, but my impression is that it acts less upon its responsibility toward the world, than a desire for even greater power in it.

SKY CAPTAIN and other bits
Alex Jay: yes, me Jewish. Me not hispanic, by any reasonable measurement. I don't even speak the language. (My father's ancestral nationality is actually Greek -- a jewish community where spanish is commonly spoken, thanks in part to a certain event from 1492.) A few years back, I reflected to Shawna McCarthy that she and I were the most unlikely-named Jews in the science fiction community -- even Dafydd ab Hugh doesn't count, as he PICKED that pseudonym. And Gut Yomtov to you, too.

On another current subject, here's what I wrote elsewhere:

Judi and I have been eagerly awaiting SKY CAPTAIN AND THE WORLD OF TOMORROW since the first coming attraction, during RETURN OF THE KING.

We have been frustrated, in past weeks, by weather and by folks who saw it without us.

We caught up with it today.

We were less than impressed.

* sigh *

Look, it's not like we're resistant to this kind of thing. We liked STAR WARS, RAIDERS OF THE LOST ARK, and SPIDER-MAN; there are any number of other junky popcorn entertainments we find just peachy-keen.

But, you know.

We have reached a point, in cinema history, where filmmakers are no longer constrained by simple human limitations. Thanks to CGI, anything the human mind can imagine, can be captured on film: from fifty-story dinosaurs terrorizing cities, to the creatures of HARRY POTTER, to epic battles in space, to aerial assaults by winged vampires, to the vast tapestries of
J.R.R. Tolkien. We *know* this. It's long-established, and the simple fact of it has ceased to amaze.

When a movie invests all of its weight on the simple magic
trick, and nothing in pacing, dialogue, characters we care about, or even ideas...it's as dull as it would have been if the sets had been cardboard and the explosions had been sparklers waved behind foreshortened windows.

Ten minutes of SKY CAPTAIN was more than enough for me.

After that, I simply couldn't care less about any of it.

I don't fault the actors. Jude Law and Gwyneth Paltrow are
fine eye candy and should have chemistry, but they have nothing to do in such a void. Angelina Jolie enlivens the film for the all of ten minutes she's in it, but similarly has little to do. As for poor Lawrence Olivier -- well, his corpse is not raped all THAT badly.

The problem, again, is the script, and the direction, which gives us no reason to care.

Here's the paradox: place vivid characters and a compelling story against a featureless black backdrop, as Lars Van Trier did in DOGVILLE, and as any number of theatre productions have done on stage, and we care: we become invested. Place cyphers and a pointless mishmash against a blue screen, and we don't care. We become distanced. And I'm happy to report
that it's not a question of dumbing down the audience, because the rather large audience at our matinee seemed to feel the same way. Nobody laughed. Nobody applauded. Nobody cried out or cheered at the hair's-breadth escapes. Once our asses were in our seats, we saw through it, even though we went prepared to like it.

There were all of three moments, in all of SKY CAPTAIN, that I perked up with genuine amusement. Only one had to do with visual design: and that was the lines of longitude and latitude, clearly visible on the landscape below the plane. The other two, which downright delighted me, were character moments. One was a neat trick involving the registration numbers on Sky Captain's plane, and the other involved the last thirty seconds of the film: a perfect punch line, which would have been even more satisfying in a better movie.

Otherwise: a total disappointment.

That's an insult to Henry Miller, who put thought into his writing and did not repeat cliches.

Steve Dooner

Eric

Mr. Martin,

I believe you just channeled the ghost of Henry Miller.

Wow.

Neal

Culture fetish

I stayed out of the Doc roast, although a lot of it seemed predicated on his statement that he didn't know if his friend was Iraqi or Iranian.

Good for Doc. Fuck the difference between Iraqis and Iranians.

I say to all of you: fuck your culture. Fuck your religion, fuck your language, and fuck your cuisine. Fuck all those things that make you different from everyone else.

Go ahead, say it...fuck my heritage. Fuck my ancestors, fuck my country, fuck my history. Fuck all those cute little things that only MY people do, eat, or say. Fuck my nation's idiot armies. Fuck our flag, fuck our national anthem, fuck whatever celebrates, encourages, or enforces our differences from everyone else.

It's liberating. And maybe if we all try it at once, we can start fucking each other, instead of fucking each other over.

Peace.

Sky Captain preview
This is a response to Rob Ewen's request for a preview of Sky Captain & TWOT.

The movie is an awesome technological achievement. You should see it just on that basis, its visual beauty.

The question is, of course, is that enough for you?

I'm 45 years old and grew up on movies as did I'm sure the majority of the posters in this forum. For me this movie was a continuous process of “spot the reference”. All art has precursors, but successful art digests its influences, and great art transcends them. But there’s none of that here.

This movie shows not one iota of imagination whatsoever. Oh they went to every graveyard in the land, collecting body parts. They laid them out on the operating table and stitched them together masterfully. But then they looked at what they had done and were mystified that the body didn’t rise and speak. They had forgotten that “great ray that first brought life into the world.” What is that “ray?” Why, imagination of course.

I realize it sounds completely contradictory but you should still go and see the movie for its visual beauty. It’ll help to have a sweet tooth cause this one’s all icing and no cake.

Harlan - What Alex said. It was good fortune when you steered Owl over to the Table O' Webderlanders at I-CON in 2003 - he's soft-spoken and personable and a very nice individual - and if there's anything that he needs that can be done from the Northeast, send up a flare.

PAB - Speaking of hurricanes, Webderlanders and I-CON, has Jim Davis emerged to say he's weathered the storm?

Cindy - I think what you've written is very good - direct, articulate, plainly yet strongly stated. Would that you were the Texan at the helm of a much larger political evdeavor. ;) If I perceive a risk, it's in your being the pivot point between the people who've signed your petition to be a candidate, and the powers who would choose a replacement upon your resignation. It requires a leap of faith with the Mason County Commissioners and the County Judge that they will hold up their end of the bargain - and with your intent clearly stated, it gives the powers that you would oppose the opportunity to make their political moves and contingency plans in the event you do win the position. I wish you luck - and I applaud your desire and your attempt to make a difference.

SKY CAPTAIN AND THE WORLD OF TOMORROW

This film has yet to open in the UK, and I'm a little concerned about some of the reports I'm hearing. A couple of my Ellisonian friends have fallen in love with it, while others loathe it with a vengeance (including one Webderlander).

I enjoyed THE SHADOW and THE ROCKETEER, and I believed this would be in the same vein, given its intended homages to the pulps. Would any other US Webderlanders care to comment before the film hits these shores?

Thanks
Rob

HARLAN: Tell Owl if he ends up needing support (interestingly, a goodly number of my friends at the IRS are working the FEMA line; I do hope he got one of them when he called) beyond what insurance and the government give, he can count on several crazy Ellison-appreciators chipping in.
(A confession: Though I've heard the name, I don't think I've read anything of Mr. Goingback's. What would you recommend as a starting point?)

ADAM-TROY: Very good to hear you've weathered the weather, whether wet or windy. But by the by: Landsman you? Es gezint! Let us hope your inscription in the Book of Life for this year is a dryer and happier one than at its outset.

DTS: "Satchel Paige bobbing head" ... ooooh. I've resisted the urge to get into the baseball memorabilia game too heavily, because another addiction, I don't need.
(which reminds me: I still have to hang the framed and signed picture of Pete Gray my best friend gave me)
But the Satch is one of my fav'rits.
(another aside in a post full of them: What writings have you done of late? Any we might buy, or read on the 'Net?)

DOC: Two truths: You're a good egg. And you overreacted.

No worries; so did others on this board; so do we all at times. I know it's not a time or happenstance which engenders patience andgrace, but if you can find it in your heart--in time--please do try to let it wash over you and pass along. The vast majority of us here are good people, for all our occasional imbroglios and brabblings. It would diminish us all were you to allow this tiff to taint all your future Webderlandings.

BRIAN: I only met the person in question--if I read you right--once, but I could have written reams on the personalities he held inside: The open face, and that which lay just beneath. There is a driving force there, but I think it could be one which could drive past this particular imagined affront. Besides, you're too valuable to the Park and Festival.

CINDY: I'm afraid I don't understand your aim--are you angling to be elected only to abdicate? And if you are, and you do, who's to say that the Board won't simply reappoint the current officeholder?
How many others are running? Are there any close to being acceptable? Are you well-known enough in the community to get a write-in victory? That is, after all, the hardest way to win a race. Further, what sort of campaigning will you be doing besides the ad? What favors can you call in for exposure?

Lastly--is this the paper for which you write? I worry that it could be seen as being overly partisan, and could lead later to party reprisals.

BARNEY: Speaking of race and the way we have yet to go--did you see Leonard Pitts' Sept. 24 column? Apparently, there will not only be at the Mississippi State Fair a booth run by Richard Barrett, head of the white supremacist Nationalist Movement, but that said booth will have as attraction one Edgar Ray Killen, who will be shaking hands and offering autographs.

The name is unfamiliar, I know, so let me cast light on things: Edgar Ray Killen, ordained Baptist minister, is the main suspect in--and is still under investigation for--the murders of Goodman, Schwerner, and Chaney.

Makes me wish I lived in Mississippi, so I could park my ass in front of the booth and NOT FUCKING MOVE.

Cindiana Jones:

"I grasp that it is only by the application of truth and the adherence to law that we, as a society, can survive. I am running for Mason County Sheriff, because I believe; if the least among us is not protected, no one is safe.In Mason, we should feel comforted and safe when we see our local officers, not concerned."

Proud of ya, dear. Hell, *I'd* vote for you.

Chuck

Lovely books
I just bought a copy of Seth and John Gallant's "Bannock, Beans and Black Tea: Memories of a Prince Edward Island Childhood in the Great Depression" for my father for his 69th birthday, simply on the basis of what a gorgeously designed book this little hardcover is. If you've got a chance, pick it up -- it's the most beautifully nostalgic-looking little volume I've seen in a long time. You'll know what I mean once you see it.

Cheers, Jon

Comentary one step removed
*** The Roth thread *** I'm glad Harlan chimed in with those Roth remarks. While it wouldn't suprise me that Roth wouldn't know Harry Turtledove or, to go back to reading more contemporaneous with a younger Roth, Farmer or De Camp, it would have been stretching credulity to imagine that he had never encountered anything like alternate history fiction. To reference my favorite, it's as though he wants patient readers to forget about the existence of things like A CONNECTICUT YANKEE IN KING ARTHUR'S COURT. C'mon. And the tone he took in TIME magazine was similar to the NYT piece. This made me think of an old Longfellow quote -

"Remember that the secret studies of an author are the sunken piers upon which is to rest the bridge of his fame, spanning the dark waters of oblivion. They are out of sight; but without them no superstructure can stand secure."

*** The DOC thread *** Getting back to Doc's initial question about media representation, etc. I would like to recommend a book called THE REEL CIVIL WAR - Mythmaking In American Film [isbn #0-375-40918-1] by Bruce Chadwick. Chadwick is a Civil War scholar who has written a fair amount about race. This book is a survey and examination of the nearly 800 films released since 1903 [Uncle Tom's Cabin since you asked] which have the Civil War and/or race relations as their subject matter. It shows the sort of process... - screw that, the hoops MEDIA jumps through when confronted with a matter as large as race relationships that have resulted in bloodshed. I think this book goes a long way to addressing some of the questions I thought Doc was asking AND it does it at a remove. I can't say a SAFE remove because this country is far from done with race issues but 50-100 years is a buffer which provides some objectivity. Of course whitey wrote the book but what the hell.

*** Cindy *** I'm not sure you're helping the electoral process by offering to turn the process over to someone other than the electorate to ultimately decide but it certainly is a Republican solution. A *REAL* Texan would keep the job and deputize her sons. I'm just sayin'. ;-) How tall aren't you anyway?

*** Rick/DragonCon photos *** OK, nobody suggested a good free hosting site. Everywhere I've looked has really difficult pain in the ass space parameters for posting and accesibility issues so I'll burn them to a CD and mail them to Rick and we'll let web deities sort things out.

*** Owl Goingback *** Oh, man. I met him at I-Con last year and I think we got along great. I say I think 'cause he's a little shy on demostrative side next to me but I really liked him and was sorry as hell to have missed his reading. Bought some of his books right out of his book bag. I wish I could choose who this shit happens to. Perservere Owl.

STILL waiting to hear from my buddy Dylan in Pensacola...

- Barney

Cindy!! Runnin for office....
Cindy,

Looks like you’re still fighting for justice down in Texas. You finally threw George out of the state four years ago, and now you’re getting rid of the rest of the creeps. I think what you have is good, but here’s my suggested re-write for what it’s worth…but please bear in mind that I’m not an editor or a writer, just a reader and political aficionado. (The radiation from DC affects most of us within a 50 mile radius or so, and I’m only a few miles out.)

“I am running for Mason County Sheriff because I believe if the least among us is not protected, no one is safe. We should feel comforted and safe when we see our local officers, not concerned.

I thank all of the people who signed my petition to run for Sheriff. It was brave of each of you, and I thank you for your courage. If elected I will take the oath of office, and then will offer to resign so the Mason County Commissioners and the County Judge can appoint a worthy candidate to the office.

The Texas Secretary Of State has issued a written opinion that my actions in this case are legal.

I have an iron determination to protect the dignity, health and private property of all Mason Citizens; from the highest office holder to the most defenseless prisoner. It is only by the application of truth and the adherence to law that we, as a community, can survive.

I ask for your vote, and for your faith that the will of the people can be heard. Please write my name, Cindy Jones, in the "write in" place on the ballot.

Thank you.”

If you like it, and the paper somehow hasn’t gone final yet, please use it. If not, I think your original letter is wonderful, and heart-felt, and big. I hope you win, but I hope they refuse your resignation and keep you on. ;)

PS - If you got your petition through, why isn't your name on the ballot? Was it a timing issue? And are things really so bad that you have to run to change them?

-Keith

Rob writes, "Cult-minded board members were insulting each other, blindly misinterpreting each other, threatening petitions against people they didn’t like, and so on. All this shit over COMICS, fer chrissake."
Let me guess, Rob, you were on the DC message boards? Yeah, they can be that bad; but there's good people on them too. And they aren't all adults; there's a fair share of teens and young "adults" on them, as well.
Thank you, whoever delivered the skinny on "The Forgotten". I know now not to waste my or my wife's time on it. We are in your debt.

Frank,
You'd be more likely to get me to eat spam. If he'd been Howard Dean you might have had a prayer... under the circumstances, ain't no way baby.

;)
Cindy

Doc,
You and PAB can be friends, she's a treasure and you're a delight! Those are compatable!

Cindy

Adam Troy,
I'm grateful that you made it through the storm. May the rest of the season be smooth sailin'.

Cindy

Eric Martin,
Big bunches of bluebonnets are blooming in the pasture. My husband Quinn said the old timers around here always said when bluebonnets bloom a second time look for a rough, cold winter. Quinn said he's never seen any in September in his life. He said these were big full mounds of them.

I grew up in Austin-- so I don't know much about weather prediction by plants. He's usually right about that sort of thing though, his family has been on the same land here since the 1860's. Every generation has stayed right here in Mason County so I guess they would pick up a few things like that. He has another one-- something about if a snake dies on it's back-- uhh, it means it will rain... or, uh, not.
:)
Cindy




OKAY, y'all I need a little feed back.

I should have gotten it sooner but I was struggling with what I wanted to do here. The editor of the paper gave me a free spot to declare and I didn't know if I wanted to take him up on it or not. I made up my mind about five minutes before the deadline. Here is what he will be putting in this weeks paper;

I thank all of the people who signed my petition to be a candidate in this Sherriff's race. It was brave of each of you to step out under current circumstances to give me the opportunity to run. This race is crucial. I thank you for your courage. If elected I will take the oath of office. I will then offer to resign in order for the Mason County Commissioners and the County Judge to appoint a Sheriff of their own choosing; whomever that may be. The Texas Secretary Of State has issued a written opinion that my actions in this case are legal.
I am qualified because I meet all of the requirements set by the State of Texas to run for Sheriff. My other qualifications include an iron determination to protect the dignity, health and private property of all Mason Citizens, from the highest office holder to the most defenseless prisoner. I grasp that it is only by the application of truth and the adherence to law that we, as a society, can survive. I am running for Mason County Sheriff, because I believe; if the least among us is not protected, no one is safe.In Mason, we should feel comforted and safe when we see our local officers, not concerned.
I ask for your vote, and for your faith that the will of the people can be heard. Please write my name, Cindy Jones, in the "write in" place on the ballot.

Whadya think?
Cindy

I'm truly glad I didn't wander into the Doc debates. This past weekend, I found that a friend of mine, someone for whom I've done a fair amount of community work, is an extremely paranoid person who turns on people without a moment's pause.

In a nut. This friend runs a community music festival, he;ld twice a year in a local park. The festival has had problems with local community groups, and more recently, the use of a stage from the Dept. of Recreation has required that we hold the Festival in a park area prone to neighbors' complaints. This year, we'd agreed on a particular placement of the stage, and that some of us'd be out there at 6 ayem to ensure that things we smoothly.

Said friend suddenly raises the alarm about local 'elite groups" trying to kill the people's music. I check with Rec, and find that his alarm is pretty much baseless. I explain as much to him, and agree to be out there the next morning for the stage.

Thereupon I suddenly get a long, angry, insulting email, accusing me of bad faith, of not fulfilling my duties, and of trying to take his festival away from him. Others have received similar communications in the past, but I'd chalked it up to light crankiness. Now I have to blame it on something more deep-seated, low-down, and sinister.

The Festival was actually lots of fun. But it's sad when someone turns on ya like that.

Doc: Harlan says you're a good guy, and I'm willing to take his word for it, so I'll try to be gentle (though it's not in my nature so I may do it poorly). I had no idea you wanted to take this hullaballoo private; in fact, you seemed to want to have it out here. I suggested you take it to the Forum, a suggestion that you ignored, AFAIK. I was just following your lead.

I don't have a burning need to be your friend, but I am not your enemy, for sure. I know how easily these brush fires can turn into bonfires, and how one can say things in the heat of the moment instead of taking a break and cooling off first. I myself have been guilty of this, to my own great embarrassment. I offered you that advice in good faith.

However, I stand by my conviction that threatening to depart in high dudgeon, only to come back repeatedly, is really obnoxious behavior, and insincere to boot. Anyone who behaves that way, friend, foe, or random stranger, aggravates me. Yours was only the latest in a series of performances just like it, and I finally decided to address the issue. As such, my comments on your withdrawal from the community were directed not only at you but also at everyone else who has pulled the same trick. Don't take it too personally.

Stick around, Doc. Being here long enough gives you an asbestos skin and an appreciation for the snidely wit-lash one can get from the whipsmart characters around here. Would Harlan like us all so much if we weren't a bunch of mensches (well, most of us, most of the time, anyway)?

PAB

>Notice the media is not mentioning the environmental reasons behind the hurricanes. It is very possible that global climate change is the cause of this wild storm season. >

I noticed, Frank, and I agree with you. Global warming is the cause of the changed storm patterns. Money talks...now that the insurance companies are paying out of the ass, you may finally see some corporate lobbying to reduce greenhouse emissions.

--Eric

Just a quick note to M. Castro, to express some joy at hearing that hearth and family are well under the circumstances.

Glad to know someone facing a real problem is well and coping with good cheer, leaving me less bitchy about the mundane within usage of paintbrushes, rollers, fixtures and marrets.

To all who may be concerned: Mel will not be returning to the site. The only fault for this lays in the increased workload she's undertaken from her new studio (another Reeston masterpiece! How do I do it?) and continuing volunteer work with the elderly and mentally ill in the area. She thanks one and all for the companionship, and assures that if she's got time she'll stop and say hi. Until then, I'm to be the conduit.

As for me, I'll be picking up the slack at home with the kids and chores, so I'll be in less often too. Not goodbye, just a heads up to those who might comment to me. Please have a bit of patience if I'm not as prompt in response.

Scott

Natural disasters and other entertainment
Harlan, Adam-Troy, your exchange reminds me of the Northridge earthquake. Everybody here in unscathed America was trying to phone people in California. I recall that Peter David was the first to get through to Harlan; he posted a plea on CompuServe for aid to our worthy host. I reached Steve Gerber (whose bookcase had walked down the stairs without falling over) and Marv Wolfman. A mutual friend finally got hold of David Gerrold, who'd run outside starkers. But it took days to make sure everyone was okay. Really nerve-wracking. I never realized I cared about so many people in California until that quake. And once one of us reached one of those in the victimized area, we all knew the news.

For all the caterwauling over the evils of the internet--and I've certainly done my share of complaining--the ability to spread news, good and bad, is one of its great strengths.

Notice the media is not mentioning the environmental reasons behind the hurricanes. It is very possible that global climate change is the cause of this wild storm season. I would get ready for a bitch's tit of a winter.

---------

Cindy, one more chance, saying this on my knees--please, please vote for Kerry. For me!! Flashes grin, fans out a load of green bills. Pleasssssssssssssse!!

God is watching. lol

Harlan: Thank you very much for your kind words and generous assessment of my character. I'll call you in a day or two; meanwhile I can only reiterate how frustrating it is to try to tell people things when they simply WILL NOT hear you. It was knocked off at the end of my last post - there are people here with whom I will simply no longer interact. I do apologize to you, Rick and the rest of the innocent Webderlander by-standers - if this could have been handled through private email, I would have been delighted to do so; contrariwise, I don't think I should be faulted too heavily for being unable to allow the opposition to have the last word. At the moment, that seems less important than it did in the heat of things. Anyway, I've resolved my end of the matter to my satisfaction, and I hope to yours, Rick's and the good people here.

Rick: Yeah - I knew it was on fire when I lay down on it (to coin a phrase). Mea culpa. If there is music to face, strike up the band. If you need to make an example, I happily submit to your sense of justice and fair play. Tell me what to do and it shall be done (even another review).

Naiki: Thank you, too, for your kind words. Explanation of the situation would probably only rekindle an unnecessary agrument. I'm sure that if the people you told in your travels saw you regularly, they'd do a better job of remembering. Meanwhile, I evidently missed it in your post, or you didn't mention - what part of China are you from? I used to know a fellow whose father was from mainland China while his mother was born and raised in Germany. When I met him, in Austin, TX, he told me that he had moved down a few years before from Canada, where *he'd* been born! Feel free to email me privately if you wish, or maybe we'll see more of you around here?

Rob: As was frequently mentioned in the trenches of WWI, it was a busy time. Things were said, understandings were missed and so on. We're good, as far as I'm concerned. If you would, email me privately, please? There's something I'd like to talk to you about.

Lee: We are also good, though there are some things about which we must agree to disagree. Cool?

P.A. Berman: Maybe you're not my enemy. But I'm not entirely sure you're my friend, either. It seems to me that a friend would , if possible, brought up the matter privately, rather than on a public forum. But it's moot distinction. As I said (and said, and said), I would have been happy to continue to lukr for awhile, but there were statements made that I felt had to be addressed. So I addressed 'em. In the end, it's a great big playground, and like anyone else, it's important to decide for oneself who and who not to talk to.

Now, if you'll all excuse me, I have to go investigate some missing strawberries... (exits, stage left, rattling a pair of steel bearings in his fist)

Owl, other odds and ends
Harlan: I'm delighted that you were able to get in touch with him, and that my head's-up contributed; of course, had I known he was still at home, I would have been able to provide you with the number (though I'm sure you already have it). It had been my impression that he'd gotten the clan the hell out of there, and I can just imagine that matter-of-fact tone in Owl's voice as he reported the loss of another piece of roof. (He probably showed more upset than THAT, really, but Owl's a steady guy, and it's hard to imagine him throwing an emotional fit over losses already sustained.)

As I reported on the phone, our own hurricane experience throughout this past month has been a series of exercises in sitting around with our thumbs up our asses, waiting for the winds to climb above thirty miles per hour. (In no case did we even lose power.) Not that Judi, who had to lock herself in the bathroom for hours during the catastrophic Andrew, was in any mood to repeat the experience.

We were most concerned, really, about a paraplegic friend of ours, up in Hollywood, FL, who lost one house (and his wife's extensive book collection -- his survived) to Andrew; anybody with mobility problems will suffer special torments if the power and water go off and the streets are blocked. However, once again, he had nothing but hard rain.

Worst inconvenience we suffered: my in-laws, 90 minutes north of here, bought the standard mountain of food, to serve family at the break fast following Yom Kippur. You know, the standard Jew feast: bagels, whitefish, egg salad, lox, etc. A mountain of it. The hurricane shut down the temples on Yom Kippur, and stranded the in-laws with enough food to feed India. They invited us -- indeed, begged us -- to come north one day later, to consume some of it, but there were still random squalls, and scattered floods, between us and them, so we made the decision to limit ourselves to local driving, and decline. An awful lot of tuna is going unclaimed, two counties away. But that's the difference between living in America, and living in Haiti. Here, our complaint post-Hurricane is that food is going to waste. Frankly, I'd rather have that problem than theirs...or Owl's.

I will take the liberty of copying the two or three lines of your Owl update, to the SFWA boards, so folks know what's going on.

Other odds and ends, insultingly trivial in context but grafted onto this post because there's no other place for them:

1) clapping my hands with glee, now that I've acquired the Francis K. Nevins compilation of Cornell Woolrich stories -- talk about a guy with a dark imagination, Woolrich lived in hell and liked taking his readers there.

2) saw SKY CAPTAIN AND THE WORLD OF TOMORROW, which I anticipated with great excitement, and which landed with a thud. Y'know, now that film tech has proceeded to the point where movies can show us ANYTHING THE HUMAN MIND CAN IMAGINE, it's still the application of that imagination, in such films, which so often fails miserably. Nobody in my audience laughed, or cheered, or seemed to feel any connection with any of the derring-do on screen. I find it helpful to contrast this film with DOGVILLE, a masterpiece from earlier this year. DOGVILLE had compelling characters and a powerful storyline acted against a stark, featureless black backdrop. SKY CAPTAIN was emptiness filmed against a blue screen. It's a contrast which serves well to remind us what truly matters.

A-TC

A-T: Spoke to Owl. As we talked, I heard a crash. "Damn!" he said, "we just lost another chunk of the roof. I can see sky from any room in the house." They were in the dark, but someone "brought a lantern" so Owl could check that he had my phone number. Two inches of water covered the floors. He had managed to get "many" of his books and papers into plastic storage bags before the full impact of the storm hit, and saved his computer; but he's lost his encyclopedia and "many" books.

He has already contacted FEMA and his insurance company. We'll see what else he needs as the days go by.

DTS: If you're really going to send me comparison burnt ends, then half the LC order and make the other half Bryant's. Or maybe make that 3/4 LC and a 1/4 Bryant's because, as you know, we'all'ns have HAD LC's and I cannot believe Bryant's can excell.
I leave it up to you. Fedex standard overnight or 2nd day air are copacetic with me. Good on the Satch, payment to follow.

Yr. pal, Harlan

All You Floridians....

Nice to know A-T Castro is still out there. How about the rest of the Webderlanders who hail from Florida? Still there? Still in touch? Still have a roof? I hope Owl Goingback's losses are less than he first thought.

Here's hoping hurricane season ends prematurely.

Chuck

One Satchel Paige Bobble Head: check
HARLAN: After stopping by 18th & Vine (on the way back from an excursion to KC's Art Festival), the Satchel Paige bobble head is in hand. I'll be picking up the BBQ no later than Tuesday and getting it -- and the very cool bobble head -- ship it all to you posthaste (I was planning to send it all overnight -- 'cause I'm of the mind that "cracklins" should be enjoyed while still as fresh as possible -- but since you're gonna reimburse, if you'd prefer the 3-day delivery I can do it that way too). After talking to an older, black gentleman outside the Negro League Museum, I was reminded that the proper Kansas City term for crackles (or cracklins, as he said the L.A. folks call 'em), is burnt ends. Not only that, but he recommended "Bryants." Personally, I still dig LCs BBQ; and Marcia, who was born and raised here, also thinks LCs is much, better. But while I'm about the task of picking up some of LCs tasty burnt ends (and gettin' myself just a mess of ribs, cause I can't resist 'em), would you like me to pick up some burnt ends from "Bryants" as well? (That way, _you_ can take the taste test and decide which one you like best; and it wouldn't be a problem, 'cause Bryant's is, as they say in the south, just up the road from LCs).

After everything has been picked up, packed up, and sent on its way, I'll give you a call and let you know it's enroute.

Tell Susan, I said , Hi.
All best,

Dorman

This may be a bit off topic, but to anyone familiar with the great comics artist Mike Kaluta, he had a bit of a heart scare recently. To quote Michael directly, "they found a minor blockage in one of the arteries, cleared it, put in a stent to reinforce the artery wall, patched up the little incision made for the catheter, and sent me upstairs for a rest."

I'd always wondered what happened to the Ellison/Kaluta Shadow project until Harlan graciously answered that question at a DragonCon a few years past. Still, it'd be a splendid collaboration.

"It pains me to see the madness of the world ooze in here from time to time."

Doc and I know each other; that's why I was urging him to STAY. But I transgressed and took a condescending swipe. Sorry about that turnpike, Doc.

My follow-up to Rich's position may have been extraneous...unnecessary. Yet, its intent was bi-fold: to address a broader issue by sharing my own experience, and, I suppose, knock a little sense into Doc's otherwise sensible head (while realizing I was probably telling him what he already knew).

Harlan and Rick...If my participation did nothing more than contribute to the "ooze", I apologize to you guys. I don't always come across the way I THINK I'm coming across. If I ever see this type of dynamic snowball again, but have thoughts about the matter - or, to put it another way, if I really have to open my big stupid mouth (such is my impulse) - I'll strictly address the broader principle in a hopefully constructive way rather than directly upbraid (or take cheap shots at) the individual, whose emotions may be hindering him from seeing things differently.

The psychology in itself is an interesting thing to look at. When MY feelings are hurt, whether because of the way I'm wired to interpret and respond, or because of a clear affront, it takes me a long time to adjust my point-of-view. Communication between all of us is ALWAYS a high-wire act.

Therein lies the savage defense mechanism:

DOES the Internet play on our fantasy roles of dominance? Does it bring out of us what we can’t take with us in our physical daily lives (but would LOVE to if we could)? Well, that varies with everyone, but I do think we unconsciously draw on the baggage people inflict on us in our daily lives. This environment can be enticing to our jungle nature. It allows us to get an upper hand in ways we normally can’t elsewhere. And then it gets out of control. It IS a bit like the "schoolyard" mentality we left behind in our childhood. And that’s creepy. Being AWARE of this problem is the only way you can confront it. (Footnote: I was recently looking in on other sites for the first time; COMIC book sites. Cult-minded board members were insulting each other, blindly misinterpreting each other, threatening petitions against people they didn’t like, and so on. All this shit over COMICS, fer chrissake. And these are adults! Adults...fighting about comic books! Talk about feeling your I.Q. being dragged down! It was a perfect lab sample for Harlan’s argument about the Net)

Well, while my head gets lost in all that...Doc, I look forward to your return when ya feel up to it.

Wyatt, you should know, I am the crowned Prince of hyperbole, by now.

---------

CNN has been showing a electoral map, basically calling the election for Bush early. Liberal media my dick.

Quick, Unfortunate Update
Judi and I emerged from the latest spate of hurricanes untouched, but we figured that Harlan would want to know that Owl Goingback was very badly hit: he lost his roof, and water drenched his collection of books and the office where he works. The family is unhurt but has evacuated elsewhere.

Steve D.,

I know you'll appreciate the irony when I say, thanks for the warning! I feared THE FORGOTTEN was that kind of flick, but as with you, it was off my radar, and I probably would have gone just to see Julianne Moore do her thing.

If ever we meet, I'll buy you a root beer.

D.

Millenium Season Two: Yes, this show was serial killer of the week on Season One, a much improved religious conspiracy X-Files on Season Two, and a mishmoshmess on Season Three.....but one of the best hours (48 minutes) of television that I have enjoyed over and over again on my rapidly wearing tape (please, DVD, Season Two must come forth!!) is the Halloween Episode.

This is grand television. Creepiness, humor, great music and an all around joy to behold. It's teevee, and it's better than anything I've seen at the theaters this year (except, perhaps, HERO).

Frank Black meets Satan (?) on Halloween.....I need it , now.

-TODD

There are things on this board that give me pause. I wonder how someone can pontificate to others about according me respect while right the middle of an act of complete disprespect towards me. I wonder how someone else can get snide with Doc about attacking people over a disagreement right in the middle of slapping him around like a red-headed stepchild. Well, I guess in each case I can see how one could say something like that - I just can't understand how I'd get it out without choking on it.

But there is one real thing some of you guys do that really stirs my crawfish boil, that really overcooks my salmon, that really breaks up the caramelized shell of my Creme Brulée:

You DELIBERATELY break the rules of this place, even clearly state you are doing so with foreknowledge, and then say "But it's okay, because I'm leaving this place for good now" or "But it's fine, because I'm going to take a day or two off."

In the first case, if you were leaving for good, and you appreciated my providing this place for you (as most people say they did), why the hell would you leave a steaming shit on my couch on your way out? And in the second case, well, what the fuck, you think it makes it BETTER that you punished yourself? That's like telling some guy "I'm about to punch you in the face, REALLY HARD. And then I'm going to kick your dog. But it's okay because right after that I'm going to go check myself into jail for a week."

I just don't get this. Has this sort of trick ever been effective for anybody, anywhere? Have you actually found someone who had their rules broken and their area of responsibility abused and was LESS ANGRY because you did it ON PURPOSE and then gave yourself a slap on the wrist? I mean, has this EVER worked?

I dunno, maybe it has. But for my part, I find the sort of person operates under the mistaken notion they can salve the harm they do to others by inflicting harm on themselves to be far worse than the person who inflicts harm out of passion or ignorance. At least the latter can excuse themselves by saying they weren't themselves or they didn't know what they were doing. But you guys WERE yourselves, you DID know what you were doing, and you DID IT ANYWAY!

Why? Because you thought you knew better than I. You thought whatever dumb shit argument or misunderstanding or crusade you had going on was more important than the integrity of the social compact this board operates under. You think you should follow the rules only when it's convenient, and only then because to do otherwise would make you look bad in the eyes of Harlan and your peers.

You break the rules and say it's okay because of your passion or because you feel it is important. In fact, the rules exist BECAUSE of people's passion and sense of importance. They prevent that passion from leading to either ugly escalation that hurts people or page-long speeches that drown out all but a few strident voices. It is PRECISELY when you feel your passion or self-importance allows you to break the rules that you should WITHOUT QUESTION heed the rules.

You break the rules and say it's okay because you are imposing punishment on yourself. In fact, that punishment does NOTHING other than make you feel better. It does not change any harm you do, nor does it change the fact that you have treated both me and this place with the utmost disrespect and disregard. It is, to me, the height of arrogance.

Every time you break the rules out of passion, you make it that much more okay to fan flames instead of talk. Every time you fuck things up for me and get away with it by imposing your own punishement, you make it that much more easier for someone else to do the same, and that much more likely that they WILL do the same. You are not helping me do my job by doing this - you are making my job HARDER.

So - in any case I have failed to be mind-numbingly clear on this subject, let it be said one more time that this particular dog DOES NOT HUNT here anymore.

I love you guys, but bullshit is bullshit. So do me a favor, and do not try this particular weak line of bullshit on me again. Because we, ALL of us, know that it is bullshit. And we know, as do you, exactly what you are on about when you try to lay it on us.

Otherwise, what Harlan said.

Ennio Morricone Info for Harlan
Harlan,

I recall from some of your essays that you're a fan of Ennio Morricone's music, and just in case you missed this announcement (edited from the Sony press release):

"Yo-Yo Ma collaborates with the acclaimed Italian film composer Ennio Morricone on a new Sony Classical recording, 'Yo-Yo Ma Plays Ennio Morricone,' that features original cello and orchestra arrangements by Morricone of his most popular themes from such films as The Mission, Cinema Paradiso, Once Upon a Time in America, The Good, the Bad and the Ugly, The Untouchables and many more. Yo-Yo Ma Plays Ennio Morricone will be released on Tuesday, September 28, 2004.

"Selected tracks on this recording have inspired four short student films that were made as part of a special program at the University of Southern California film school, in conjunction with its music school, to showcase the importance of music in filmmaking. The student filmmakers participated in a competition to select the best treatments, with the winning selections receiving funding from Sony Classical. The program will culminate in a special concert event at the Los Angeles campus of the school on November 5 with a performance of the music, accompanied by the projection of the winning films, and a symposium - with the participation of Ma, Morricone's son Andrea (who is also a film composer), the USC Thornton Chamber Orchestra and the student filmmakers.

"Tickets for this USC Event go on sale starting Tuesday, October 5. Tickets are $15 general public / $10 USC faculty, staff, students and senior citizens. For tickets, call (213) 740-2167 or go to www.usc.edu/tickets."

Also, a few weeks back, you were inquiring about an import Astor Piazzolla tango CD. I know that one can get darn near anything today via the Internet and mail order, but I wanted to mention that my wife and I are going to be vacationing in Argentina the second half of October, and if there's anything in particular you'd like me to look for -- rare Argentinian CDs or books (editions of your work?) -- please let me know. I can't guarantee I can find 'em, but I can try to look around music stores/bookstores when we're in Buenos Aires.

-- Jon

INTERCESSION OF CIVILITY & SANITY

This is for

DOC
ROB
RICH
SCOTT
P.A.
MELISSA
LEE

I take pen in hand for what I earnestly pray will not be a fruitless attempt at interdiction of a suddenly-burgeoning lunacy among very nice, very intelligent people.

Folks, Doc is a friend of mine; and 99.9% of the time I've known him (apparently) he is not only stalwart, straightforward, and smart, he is responsible and sane.

But if I am to take the lunatic exchanges among you from the last few days here, I'd sadly have to say it's (pardon me this one) "that time of the month" for Doc. Because this nice man -- please accept the description based on first-hand knowledge -- has jumped looney and tuney at your replies.

And he's become rude, which is NOT LIKE HIM AT ALL.

I have no idea why you've gotten so exercised, Doc; nor do I know why this particular interchange has exploded so dolefully. But apart from me urging you in strongest terms to stop right now with the rancor, I am saying to Doc as a man I like and respect...

KNOCK IT OFF!!!!

Calm yourself. This is unseemly. You are too elegant a guy to have fulminated so. I may not be able to eradicate the smudge of annoyance some of you (particularly Melissa) have allowed to besmirch your response to Doc, but I ask that all of you go back with equanimity and just look at how misunderstood, misapplied, misinterpreted and misplaced have been your reactions. This isn't anything that should have made you all so crazy. It's the Curse of the Web that has demented you. Tone. 'Tude. Demeanor. This is schoolyard machismo, waiting for a chip to be knocked off a shoulder.

Calm. I beg you.

Civility. I urge you.

Please don't drive Doc away. He's a good joe. And Doc...for pity's sake, reread all of it and try to bank the fires. A simple "I'm sorry for losing my temper" cannot fail to balm the wounds of others who are, trust me, as decent a soul as yourself.

It pains me to see the madness of the world ooze in here from time to time.

Go sweetly, all of you. Stay softly.

Yr. pal, Harlan

Can you beleive it? Misquoted a quote(and probably just spelled misquoted wrong).It was " Better that vague fate than sports statistics ". Beleive it or not I get nervious just writing on my favorite guy Harlan's site.I should get out more
huh?

Overinformed and underworked...Paul

What I’ve learned from the unexpected results of my recent post to Doc is that mixing bad catfish metaphors with well meant criticism is like pouring gasoline into a hot lawn mower. Everything proceeds smoothly up to the sudden dull thump, then the neighbors stare in horror as you begin the lonely job of puzzling out the connection beween the empty gas can and your missing eyebrows.

Barney Dannelke "Better that than sports statistics"

I think you may have just created a new quotable quote.Really like it as it certainly summed up the point of your message and thats what a good quote should do.

But.....did you make it up.....maybe Einstein....maybe Twain.....?

Dooner's post reminded me of something -- anyone know when Millennium Season 2 will be on DVD? It's got at least two great episodes in it -- "Somehow, Satan Got Behind Me", the Darin Morgan-scripted 'demons-in-a-coffee-shop' episode and "Jose Chung's Doomsday Defense.' The latter is a very funny take on Scientology. Also, the episode has Charles Nelson Reilly in it. And was scripted by Darin Morgan.

If you get Millennium in syndication, watch for those two episodes. Now, whenever I see references to Hubbard, I think 'Onan Gupta' and the pain lessens.

Cheers, Jon

Doc, see? I knew you'd be back. Everyone who pitches a hissy about leaving here nearly always comes back, and people who say they're not going to read the board anymore are invariably still reading it. That's why I hate it when people put on the little performance that you put on-- inevitably, that person is back numerous times, and the threat of imminent departure is just that, a threat to make us all feel so terrible for having crossed you. It's passive-aggressive, untrue, and nettlesome.

Rich made a good point about the irony in your post. He did not mean to hurt you, or belittle you, or harm you in any way. You left yourself open for that shot, and he took it. It's nothing to get all bunged up about. It's nothing to leave in a huff about. Just acknowledge that he gotcha, savor the irony as a lesson about how American YOU are, then move on.

I am not your enemy, Doc. No one here is. I like you just fine. However, I do not like the phenomenon of posting a dramatic departure speech, then returning not once, not twice, but THREE TIMES (including two posts in one day, by golly) to continue the melee. That is the ONLY reason I threw my potato into this borscht pot. Have it out with Rich in the Forums if you need to (that's what Jono did and it worked itself out fine), but please stop being a drama queen. By all means, take a break from the boards if you need to, and come back when you feel better.

Yr. friend,
PAB

Doc:

On behalf of my husband, Scott, who'd merely tried to ameliorate what he perceived as an overreaction on your part to let you save face, your wish not to be spoken to is granted.

You should note, you've given my mate one of the best belly laughs he's had in a few days. He loves guys like you: so obdurate in holding to their myopic view of self that they'd sever one of their own limbs rather than admit to wrong.

You know, I do find it interesting to listen to you make such categorical statements about P.A., Scotty, Rich, Rob and others who you'd likely never met or spoken to prior to this interaction. To lash out at people in such fashion after they'd merely commented on your 'slip of the keyboard' seems so childish on its own; to continue it with slurs and insult just stuns me. Moreso, how they'd never engaged in abuse to you in response, in spite of your churlish retorts.

You talk of being friends with the others who come here:

"Why then should I deny myself the pleasure of reading or likewise interacting with such delightful folks as A.J. Berman or Cindy in Texas or Adam-Troy Castro or Charlie or Duane or Ezra lb. (LOVE that handle, man),..."

I can't wait for the moment when they have the overbearing arrogance of disagreeing with you, or not display the talent of reading your mind in order to accurately read the intent of your words. You do realize, however, that your little game of attacking those who have the temerity of having a dissenting opinion to yours does grow tiresome quite quickly.

And when you fire another temper tantrum out of your seemingly inexhaustive repetitive realizations that the universe once again has refused to run on your time, it'll give us the ability to give the scroll wheel a workout.

Thank you for that.

Melissa

Why Didn't Anyone Warn Me?

Giggles and guffaws were flying last night at the suburban multiplex, and for once, I agreed with the cat-calling teens who suffered with me as I squirmed through the entire screen time of "Forgotten" with Julianne Moore. But to tell the truth, I was really more seething, than squirming.

Usually, I can smell a stinker from a mile away, but this movie was entirely off my radar, so when some friends asked me to see it, my response was "I loved Julianne Moore in that "Vanya on 42nd St." movie. Off I went.

But why am I so pissed off at a bad movie? Because I smell the noisome carcass of L. Ron Hubbard at work here. If not him, some similar New Age crap that Hollywood producers think is "cool."

If this wasn't a Scientology movie, I will be surprised because its poorly hashed out string of science fiction cliches struck me as awfully Hubbardian:

There's a guy who stops drinking and attains a state of "clear" by fighting off his alien demons, there's a woman who has been mentally assailed by super alien demons, there's a psychiatrist who is inadvertantly helping the alien demons by making the woman think she is ill, and there are the age-old super aliens who have always walked among us and who terorize us with their fiendish abductions, conspiracies and experiments.

Sounds like I walked into a %#*%ing Scientology church service unawares!

Ye gods! Why didn't anyone warn me?

Say, Harlan, if you catch this post, I imagine you must have had an encounter or two with the man who Gore Vidal thought one of the most evil people he had ever met. I mean, of course, the yachtsman turned science fiction writer, L. Ron Hubbard. Do you have any explanation for why the indulged millionaires of Hollywood should think the rest of us back in ordinary America should even care about this dreck?

Proud of every single one of his Thetans,

Steve Dooner

quotes
*** Michael *** That primary citation thing cuts both ways. Please understand, I have NO PROBLEM with attributing it to Harlan. It's just I've never seen the primary citation in Harlan's case either. I have seen the same quote [and Einstein-ish lookalikes] attributed to Frank Zappa, Robert Heinlein and John W. Campbell. I like the idea that Harlan said it. It certainly SOUNDS like something Harlan would say about 5 minutes after being told what the periodic table was and how it worked. But without a source that attribution may have to "settle" on Harlan the way various quotes settle on other wits and high verbals.

Twain scholars have written VOLUMES of similar carping about which quotes Twain invented, which ones he, ahem, appropriated from lesser lights who are barely remembered today - the Petroleum V. Nasby crowd - and which ones are cobbled up out of whole cloth. Last years example was the abbreviated "I am not just an American, I am THE American". This was used repeatedly in the Ken Burns documentary and on top of being a partial quote taken entirely out of context, turned out to be Twain quoting a friend from a letter to another friend in a different letter. The California papers have both letters.

So the Twain scholars kick Ken Burns around the block for this oversight or simplification and ignore that in a very real sense Burns got it right. That quote, both in its extended and truncated versions is PERFECTLY EMBLAMATIC of Twain's life. All of the triumphs and reversals of fortune, all of the incredible ideological leaps and blinkered stubbornesss that were the arc of his life are neatly summed up in that "quote".

There is a small part of me that wants to get these things right all the time. But a larger part of me wants to hear these tidbits and bon mots dropped into conversation with greater frequency and if they stumble on attribution, so be it. Better that vague fate than sports statistics.

*************************************************************

I just went looking for the exchange between James Whistler and Oscar Wilde. Whistler felt Wilde borrowed too frequently from other authors. Early on in Wilde's career that was a pretty fair charge. After hearing Whistler make some remark Wilde IS SAID TO HAVE SAID, "I wish I'd said that, James" and Whistler replied "Don't worry Oscar, you will".

I couldn't find this in the first two biographies of Wilde I looked in but I did find it cited in an article about copyright and plagiarism which is itself copyright protected. So, is it true? Is it real? And if I use it at parties do I attribute Wilde, Whistler, the journalist who initially "preserved" it or copyright.org where I found it first? What a can of worms.

***********************************************************

Todays quote;

"Everybody talks about the weather but nobody does anything about the weather".

Is -
A] from Petroleum V. Nasby on the Lyceum circuit, originally quoted in a Carson City newspaper.

B] from one of 4 different versions of Twain's essay On Weather which was serialized widely in American newspapers in the 1880's.

C] used by Willard Scott last year on television but not attributed.

D] credited as having it's ORIGINAL appearance in 37 of the 50 United States.

E] given as a gift to Twain by the research staff at Readers Digest.

F] An old Gypsey Curse.

G] I made all of them up and some of them have the ring of truth and the verve of veracity.

- "Barney Dannelke"

Muddywaters, PA.

I may be breaking the 24 hour rule, here, and if I get banned, I'll just cry and cry... BUT -

I've done me some thinkin'. Sat up, smoked a lotta cigarettes, gazed at the entrails, divided scripture and had lengthy discussions with each of the voices in my head, and I have come to the following conclusion: there are only three or four people who are determined to take this safari up my nose, really, and it occurs to me that I have less than an ounce of respect for any of them, together or separately. And why should I? What have they shown me?

Why then should I deny myself the pleasure of reading or likewise interacting with such delightful folks as A.J. Berman or Cindy in Texas or Adam-Troy Castro or Charlie or Duane or Ezra lb. (LOVE that handle, man), or any of the plentiful supply of other people here who have an inkling of what good manners and fair discourse are?

My great error, here, see, was thinking for a moment that what any of you other fellows had to say meant a damn thing to me. When you missed what I was getting at (repeatedly), I did what I could to set the discussion arights. Then I had to decide whether you were just not getting it or being deliberately obtuse - I gave you the benefit of the doubt, thinking that my own communication skills had failed me. How frustrating!

Silly me - it never occurred to me that you were playing The Game - the one where you wind someone up and watch them go, laying side bets amongst yourselves as to how far they'll make it before they'll implode, explode or evaporate.

Well, the game's over. Game's over and the gloves are off, you pustules, you walking tumors, you naughty things.

Why do I not know whether my Very Good Friend, Rod Amiri, is Iranian or Iraqi? 'Cause he'd told me and at the moment I asked about the media thing, I just flat fuckin' could not remember. There. *Of course*, I know there's animosity between the people and the governments of Iran and Iraq! Do you think I've been living in a lobster trap at the bottom of the bay for the last 40 goddamn years of my life? And do you think I would refer to someone as "my very good friend" if I thought he'd freeze me out for failing to remember the distinction?

I (having a generous nature, really) made the mistake of thinking *EVERYONE* here was a friend of mine, merely because we all seem to have a common interest. What a sap, huh? How gullible can a guy get, right? Now I am wise... In the future, I know who to ignore, and I hope you'll do the same for me.

I'm surprised and saddened to find you on this list, P.A. Berman. We generally get along pretty well. My reaction to Rich's initial response was not the H bomb you imply. The mounting "discussion" of how wrong and ignorant I am is another story, and I tried to deal with it in as courteous a manner as possible, but when people will not listen, one must occasionally raise one's voice.

My point - again - for the last fucking time - was ABOUT THE MEDIA! Not American perceptions, the freakin' media. How many times must I say this? Are you reading this on a ouija board? As far as my coming and going, I said 'way back yonder, that I'd continue to lurk, and I did. And I continued to post, against my better judgement, when there was no way to handle the matter off the board because some people are too cowardly to post their email addresses. I had the mad thought that enough explaining would settle the matter and we could all go to tea together. This was back before I realized it made absolutely no difference what I said, I was being made the butt, regardless.

So, to the Honorable Opposition, a big, juicy "Fuck you." I'll come and go as I please, and if any of you involved in this issue have anything to say to me, you can use grown up words and everything - but you'll do it with the respect you'd give our host, or anyone else, or not at all. If I leave forever, I might find that forever is about 20 minutes or so - my choice, and what do you care, you pompous blowhards? If I get banned for awhile for saying all this, well, somehow I'll learn to live with it. Believe it or not, there are forums where people have manners and treat others with dignity and courtesy - shucks, there are people like that right here! Thing is, from here on, I give as good as I get. If you don't like what what you're getting, take another look at what you're handing out.

And would you believe it? Lee had the decency and courage to write me privately to work this out? Well done, Lee!

It's good to be back - I missed most of you frightfully!

A few of you, though, should go pound it up your respective bungholes with a rubber mallet.

Cheers,
Doc

Dear Doc,

I wanted to say that as an ethnic Chinese woman living in Southeast Asia, I get mistaken for all the other East Asian races or nationalities every single time I travel abroad, from Japanese to Korean to Taiwanese to Nepalese, and people tend to forget what I am minutes after I tell them. It gets frustrating, that these people simply don't understand the first thing about the world from which you come from. In resignation my travel companions and I usually laugh among ourselves and say we can't tell Canadians from Americans either. But I always appreciate it when they do remember. Let's not get all worked up over such a little thing.

Naiki

Doc, whether you're reading this or not (you probably are, I bet, your protestations to the contrary notwithstanding): you have flagrantly overreacted to Rich's post. When you muse that Americans are being duped into inaccurate views of people in the Arab world, and someone points out that you should look not to the mote in our collective eye until you look to the beam in your own, the proper response is, "Touche!" Instead, you get defensive that Rich has missed your point, when your point is that Americans don't know much about what life is like in the Middle East. Clearly neither do you, or you'd understand why mistaking an Iranian for an Iraqi is a pretty flagrant error. It'd be like mistaking a Pakistani for an Indian, or Serb for a Croat. Just to give you some idea.

Yes, Doc, the American media doesn't give us the whole picture and is manipulating the public with inflammatory footage of isolated situations for dramatic impact. I'm surprised you're just realizing that now. I think it's pretty obvious to most people who employ critical faculties when viewing the news. I'm glad you've clued into this.

Also, I have to say that I really have come to despise this whole phenomenon of people getting all in a huff and declaring that they're so mortally offended by the people on this board that they are leaving! Gone! Never to return! And then post twice more, saying goodbye each time, probably only to be back in a week. Either leave or don't (no one is saying you should leave besides you), but this whole drama around leaving in a snit and slamming the door behind you is annoying as hell.

PAB

PS--I know plenty of Americans who cross-country ski. And gas is hardly cheap.

What I Write vs What You Read
I am here in an effort to make myself understood. I write "mauve" and some of you, from the evidence of your responses, read "plaid".

Reeston writes: "Doc: Ah, the small tirade against others for noting the defect in your thinking or logic, alongside the display of ire of having another point it out, especially in a public forum. I know it well.

"I and others have done it."

Well, bubie, you and others have done it AGAIN. As I have tried to explain, my point in the aforementioned post was NOT the cultural "myopia" of the American people. No - read it again. MY point (which few apparently got or wanted to discuss peacefully) was how most Americans are at the dubious mercy of the media when it comes to real life and people in other countries. Suddenly I am taken to task for not being able to recite the family tree of someone I regard as a good friend, even a very good friend. You try sitting patiently when people are telling you what you said wasn't what you said but something you didn't say at all.

"Look, no biggie to me one way or another, but to trod off in offense at someone's pithy and well-phrased response to your faulty observation seems only to further undermine yourself, not others. You've done the intellectual equivalent to leaving your fly open, and you complain because someone had the decency to save your further embarassment by pointing it out. Let it go with a kind word and apology, and then hang around to listen and learn. Like it or not, that's what you're doing most here."

First, I think you mean "tread"; or possibly "trot"; I should hope that anyone who uses the word "pithy" in a sentence would know the difference.

If he had been responding to my observation rathar than to what he *imagined* was my observation; if it had any relation to the point I WAS making, then maybe I'd let it pass - contrary to what seems to be the growing popular opinion, I can laugh at myself. I am less inclined to do so when any admonition is delivered with the verbal equivalent of a sneer. My observation was not at fault, I believe, but its interpretation by others.

I do find it interesting, though, that you, Reeston, have listed no email. I'd be perfectly happy to spare the rest of the folks here any further exposure to this fun festival, but you insist on making it only possible to address this in a public forum. Unfortunately for you, it only serves to reveal how little you understand the argument and its foundation. It seems the embarassment is yours.

"So, if you wish to blow the bridges, use thermite."

I have a few suggestions of things *you* can blow, too, you pompous, condescending twerp.

Rob writes: "Rich: 'you're the one that brought up the point about Americans not knowing much about the world around them. You brought up the point and then, for whatever reason, decided to mention that you weren't sure if your "very good friend" was Iraqi or Iranian...I just couldn't resist pointing out the irony in your post.'

"That is sound and balanced reasoning, the facts well seated."

Well, Rob it would be, IF IT ADDRESSED THE POINT OF MY POST.

"I had a friend from Iran. Her name was Lita. She would have thought me an imbecile if I had not understood where she was from. I am certain that she'd have resented my thinking she might be Iraqi (as sure as Georgians would resent you if you thought them Iranian; there's enough to go around for everyone). I'd have truly diminished myself."

I can only say that it's obviously a large-ish sort of *deal* for her. It's less important to my pal, Rod, who is less concerned with his past than the present and future in general. It is not one of the qualifications one must meet for his friendship. If I'd known him for ages, it might be different, and when I HAVE known him for ages, I'm sure I'll know more about him than I do at present. Meanwhile, it seems to be a bigger schtuss here than between him and me.

"Admittedly, it wasn’t too complicated because her leanings were quite Westernized to begin with; she'd grown up during the era of the Shaw."

Unless this was during the rule of the Bearded Irish Playwright, you might want to ask Lita how to spell "Shah".

How does it feel, Rob? I'd rather have had this discussion privately but, like Reeston, I don't know where else to write to you.

"The point is we really KNEW each other. We'd have seen through any threadbare sentiments from either quarter."

And there it is again. My Very Good Friend and I have known each other for about a year. It doesn't make him any less my friend, or me, his. We don't see or talk to each other every day, but we do spend time together. He's a busy man - a doctor - at Cedars-Sinai hospital.

So g'bye. If/When it looks like people are more interested in talking about what was actually said than making another person look/feel like a schmo, I'll be back. At the moment, I'm not even interested in looking in. See you in a few months.

Cheers,
Doc

I'll take a day's penalty to respond. Well, a few days it's more likely to be, what with the living that's being piled up here.

M. Ellison:

Two posts ago, I stated no attempt at plagarism on your part, believing it was coincidental and unintentional. Agreed, there's difference between the two, but to my perspective differences emphasize the similarity between them. as to the level of humor, that's tough to judge from words upon a page; the only place I'd seen the two. Further, my telepathy as to the intellectual intent of the speakers ain't what it used to be. In the case where similar quotes are available, I take the one that's the most encompassive of my thoughts on what subject is at play; failing that, the one that's been stated first.

Now that the dead horse has been sufficiently beaten, a bit of a query at your last sentence:

"Death to all pecksniffs!"

If there's a spare moment available, could you explain my comparison to the character in M. Dicken's "Martin Chuzzlewit", Seth Pecksniff? I understand the defintion as it pertains to its origin, but not quite sure how I fit comparison.

Scott

Einstein and hydrogen
The journalist in me just gotta ask:

Can anyone provide a primary source for the "hydrogen and stupidty" quote attributed to Einstein?

Sure, it's on countless "My Favorite Quotes" pages on the Web, often alongside the version correctly credited to HE. But none of these Web posters seems to have found it among old Albert's papers, interviews or articles. Mostly, I suspect, they've simply cut and pasted it from other Web sites.

Hypothesis: Harlan's quote came first and, badly remembered, morphed into the "not sure about the former" version, which was attributed to Einstein because it sure would have been cool if he HAD said it.

I've checked Snopes and other reliable urban myth sites, and haven't found any evidence that the Einstein quote is a fraud. But the conspicuous lack of a primary citation makes me wonder.

ZUZ

Simple Query
STARTQUERY

Begin query. Return results Y/N.

Search parameter: Shaun of the Dead. (Set parameter string.)

Fetch Results From: Webderland denizens.

Query: Funny? Y/N (Fetch results.)

Query: Worth seeing for free? Y/N (Fetch results.)

Query: The funniest film since Ferris Bueller's Day Off? Y/N (Fetch results.)

Query: Dawn of the Dead (parameter reset=original) meets Harry Potter? Y/N (Fetch results.)

Compile FetchResults (Print to File)

ENDQUERY

Velvet

P.S. - Kindly note, the above serves only to demonstrate just how much of that Introduction to Programming Logic course I took in 2001 actually stuck. Which is to say, not very bloody much. :(

The Objective Eye When The Hauteur Borders On The Farcical

Rich: "you're the one that brought up the point about Americans not knowing much about the world around them. You brought up the point and then, for whatever reason, decided to mention that you weren't sure if your "very good friend" was Iraqi or Iranian...I just couldn't resist pointing out the irony in your post."

That is sound and balanced reasoning, the facts well seated.

I had a friend from Iran. Her name was Lita. She would have thought me an imbecile if I had not understood where she was from. I am certain that she'd have resented my thinking she might be Iraqi (as sure as Georgians would resent you if you thought them Iranian; there's enough to go around for everyone). I'd have truly diminished myself. Admittedly, it wasn’t too complicated because her leanings were quite Westernized to begin with; she'd grown up during the era of the Shaw. The point is we really KNEW each other. We'd have seen through any threadbare sentiments from either quarter.

I asked her questions ALL the time about her cultural background, and she utterly dug my inquisitiveness. Mine was a rather child-like curiosity and it broadened our friendship; it enabled us to compare notes on all fronts; to disagree where we disagreed, yet really listen to each other. No one had to get sanctimonious. Y’know: the definitions of a real friendship. She grandly appreciated my interest in her ethnic roots; it told her that she needn't leave her personal identity behind in order to be an "American". I was learning and SHE was learning.

I LIKE talking to people I meet about their ethnic backgrounds and nationalities. I’ve had many enjoyable dialogues with people from Africa, Asia, Jamaica, Britain, France, and obviously Russia. And when I engage them, not surprisingly, their eyes light up. They feel welcomed; and eased, knowing that we don't have to be culturally alike to identify with each other. My two roommates are sisters, half hispanic and half Apache. I'm fascinated! (I NEVER met anyone with Apache ancestry) And they have a great time getting into it.

If you want to avoid being the "insular American" (especially if you're going to charge your neighbors as such)...this is pretty much the way to do it.

**Just to correct 2 ADD-type screw-ups in my last post: I obviously meant "hermitic" lifestyle; not "hermetic! And I keyed out "with" when I meant "worth".

I just went into Borderlands Press and there was a volume by another author called Rough Beasts and Other Mutations, but nothing by Harlan coming up as far as I could tell. Am I missing something? Roger

SCOTT REESTON:

Gee, folks, had I but known.

No question, Albert Einstein's erudite aphorism and my bit o' slapstick are reverberative. But -- without the tiniest shade of rancor -- I kinda think this is just a case of two Great Minds having a similarly obvious observation, decades apart.

I say this (and remember, I am one who is pathologically devoted to crediting quotes, and have a loooooooooong track record of being both sedulous and punctilious in this regard) because I feel no guilt passim this comparison. It is pointless -- though accurate and absolutely true -- to say I had no knowledge of Einstein's remark, on accounta because it is exactly as Steve Dooner has pointed out: 1) though the essence of both phrases is the same, the manner and intent of getting to the point are polar opposites; 2) one is high-falutin' and intended to edify, while the other is baggypants pratfall and intended to humiliate and make fun; 3) the wordplay in mine, by use of the misapplied noun "elements," is calculatedly wrong and VERY original; and 4) were I even absentmindedly a plagiarist (as I've often quoted previously, from da Vinci: "Where I steal an idea, I leave my knife") can you think of anyone better from whom to pilfer?

Oh, yeah, and one more thing, Reeston:

Death to all pecksniffs!

Yr. pal, Harlan

Banned Books Week
Today begins Banned Books Week, so it's time to pull out those dog-eared copies of "The Glass Teat" and "The Other Glass Teat" and enjoy--if that's the word--Harlan's essay about how Spiro and company nudged Ace into suppressing the first volume.

Hi Harlan, did you deal with/work with Michael Piller on NTZ, and what do you think about what's become of him, in particular the show Dead Zone?

To everyone who missed me, I was out of the country for a few weeks.:-)

Jan

Steve: Timing aside, it just seems the two comments are saying the same thing. I merely defer to the one who said it first.

Doc: Ah, the small tirade against others for noting the defect in your thinking or logic, alongside the display of ire of having another point it out, especially in a public forum. I know it well.

I and others have done it.

Look, no biggie to me one way or another, but to trod off in offense at someone's pithy and well-phrased response to your faulty observation seems only to further undermine yourself, not others. You've done the intellectual equivalent to leaving your fly open, and you complain because someone had the decency to save your further embarassment by pointing it out. Let it go with a kind word and apology, and then hang around to listen and learn. Like it or not, that's what you're doing most here.

We've all said things we wish we could edit. Being married, it's easy for the wife to come forward with a ton of examples of my more famous outbursts, all far more egregious than yours. (Odd, that somehow she doesn't recall any of hers...) Long and short, I'm still married. You do walk away from them, often as a better person if you see the slip of the thought and tongue for what it is.

So, if you wish to blow the bridges, use thermite. Much more effective than most conventional explosives. Personally, I'd leave them be, and come back across to debate again when you choose.

Scott

Hey, Doc, I may be shouting into the void here, but you're the one that brought up the point about Americans not knowing much about the world around them. You brought up the point and then, for whatever reason, decided to mention that you weren't sure if your "very good friend" was Iraqi or Iranian.

There is a history between those two peoples, you know. And not a very good one. I just couldn't resist pointing out the irony in your post.

Now I wouldn't go so far as to say it's akin to comparing Jews to Arabs, but I don't know if your very good friend would be happy with being compared to an Iraqi or an Iranian, depending on which country he truly is from. However, because he (or she) is your very good friend, like most good friends, they overlook our myopia and ignorant remarks, educate us, and continue to be our very good friends.

Just for the record, a couple of things: I do know where my very good friends are from and yes, I am very snotty. I am working on my smugness, though, and trying very hard to get my animosity off my sleeve. It doesn't go with the cufflinks.

Thanks Lee.

Saw the show about Frank Frazetta on IFC titled "Painting With Fire." Loved it.

Also of possible interest to Webderland members is an upcoming two part mini-series on PBS, Tues-Wed, September 28-29, 8-10PM ET/PT called "Origins: Fourteen Billion Years of Cosmic Evolution" and hosted by Neal deGrasse Tyson.

Oh, joy, o bliss, becase I'm watching the IFC documentary on Frank Frazetta right now. It's wonderful, people: interviews with the likes of Wrightson and Bakshi and Dave Stevens and Neal Adams and Bill Stout and other luminaries, and there are wonderful scenes of Frazetta hanging with childhood friends who went on to _Mad_ magazine: Angelo Torres, Nick Meglin, and photos of the late (and underappreciated) George Woodbridge. Lots of coverage of his early days in comics, his "funny animal" stuff, his days ghosting "Li'l Abner"... Try to see this, people.

My Dear Doc....
Doc: If you wish to clutch your scared breast and go a’ wailing into the wilderness, I for one will not stop you (It’ll give you a chance to get off your ass and give me a decent count of your Ellison Collection! I have only one entry from ‘overseas’ and I’m beginning to feel neglected!). The comment was nit-picking, and persnickety, but ultimately harmless. Don’t get you’re knickers all in a twist, you have bigger fish to fry…because half of our freaked-out American Breathen are convinced (yet once again) that this election …WILL BE THE END OF THE WORLD AS WE KNOW IT! Silly buggers, Democrat, Republican…Plus c’est la chance, et plus c’est la meme chose…

Did you know that ‘Rough Beasts’ is for sale? Yes it’s true, mon ami, just check out Borderlands Press. Harlan. I guess this is a case of use it or lose it! By the way, my copy of ‘Voice from the Edge’ arrived today, and I was wondering…is this the same version of 'Jeffty is Five’; as on the LP?

And my dear Quiet One, Please give me a breakdown for the list,

Luv,

Jono

P.S. and what’s a Mike 0527 a.k.a. ‘Blood’s a Rover’, David, please enlighten me. Is it a Mathew? Or what?

Early Retirement
Rob: I appreciate what you're getting at, but look at it again, please. If, everytime you walk into a place, some yo-yo tries to pick a fight with you (not even the same yo-yo), do you really want to keep going? I became a regular attendant here back in 1995, and there are a couple people from that time who continue to turn up from time to time, otherwise lurking. The rest? Are they no longer interested in things Ellison? No - they've moved on, some keeping in touch, but mostly satisfying their HE lech with his books. Why? This kind of sniping. It's what this particular arena was set up to rid ourselves of, if I understand rightly.

And I have contributed here. As Mr Wyatt will attest, if you don't care to look into the matter yourself, I did a stack of reviews of HE collections for this site, rather lengthy ones, that I took the time to check through with Harlan himself. Can I have a look at Rich's local resume? I've never tried to trade on my contributions, but I HAVE contributed - what do we have from Rich? Where does this pischer come off taking anything I (or anyone) have to say out of context and using it to prickle anyone else here?

And it's not just Rich - I'm looking at you, Lee. You knew very damn well what I was talking about, yet you decided it would be more entertaining to keep the thing going. And now you think you're making nice-nice? Keep your condescension and mock-sincerity. You're as full o' shit as a Christmas goose. You present yourself as playful, but in this particular scenario, you're the only one having any fun. Rich might be an annoying vontz, but at least he has the character to wear his animosity on the outside where all can see it. You, on the other hand, have a nice big smile and a lot of pins to slip into people's flesh when they aren't looking, all the while wondering with them, "Where are those sharp pains coming from?" You are a smug, self-satisfied devicive weasle, a maker of trouble for no productive end but for its own sake.

Enough - it has been a guiding philosophy for me over a number of years now that, when a thing stops being fun, I should stop doing it, if possible. This is no longer quite the treat it was, though I continue to be amazed at just how few people it takes to piss on the fire of enjoyment. In the timeless words of Popeye the Sailor, "That's all I can stands, I can't stands no more!"

Best Wishes (to most of you),
Doc

John W.

Thanks for quoting from the Yusuf Islam website, I find it mind boggling that he's considered a threat and colleagues have described him as a quite harmless activist.

The Satanic Verses affair did a lot of damage to the Muslim community in the UK, mostly due to certain yahoo's protesting and book burning whilst angry, ill-informed youths had read doctored quotes in the pamphlets of Ahmed Deedat. The Fatwa did not help. Suddenly, Muslims were being asked about their position on the Rushdie affair, as if jobs or livlihood depended (and sometimes did) on the answer given.

Then again, some of Rushdie's own supporters turned out to do quite well advocating their own liberal bigotory and doing no favour to the author.

A few years ago, I argued with Fay Weldon at a BECTU meeting concerning her book Sacred Cows and misquoting texts from the Quran to justify her position on Islam. She, allegedly, commented later that I was obviously a illiterate fundamentalist who should have been kicked out of the building!

(Note: Not only do I have a signed copy of The Satanic Verses on my bookshelf but for a while, I did have an option to adapt a Rushdie short story).

Michael - You'll find people know where Alburquerque is in the US due to it being one of Bugs Bunny's frequent stop overs when travelling!

FAQ

Doc

Go ahead and pick up your toy backhoe, throw your broad shoulders back in a soldierly display of unbroken spirit and march double-time into the tall shrubs surrounding these Elysian fields. It is your right to do so, and no one can hold you back. At least, not physically.

But have you considered deeply the matter of rich? He is man of complexity and enchantment. Tangled skeins of naughty impulse are dusted with amusement and lay scattered like tiny dust bunnies in the basement of his brain. A languid intelligence rises on occasion to the surface of his mind, like a hundred-pound catfish of many summers closing with sluggish confidence on a damaged water-bug. There is a silken nuance to his brownian shifts between sagacity and opacity, consideration and insouciance, seriousness and blather. He shoots straight, but means harm to no one.

I invite you in the spirit of fraternity to consider whether you have not rather been hung from the rafters of your own narrow expectations, demanding a considered and respectful response from an anarchic stew of well-meaning Ellison fans. Seriousness is only one of many well intentioned orientations that weave into the daily thread. Embrace the full spectrum. Have a ball.

DOC, DOC, DOC...

DOC: "Ethnicity doesn't seem to come up a lot between my friends and me...Does that diminish the friendship? Of course not"

You and I haven't socialized in a long time and I hope you are otherwise doing well.

Having said that, you might be blown away to know that many here wholeheartedly support your point, but who likewise would urge you not to shrink away whenever someone crosses the line of proper etiquette. I feel it's best to acknowledge reality before jumping into the haywagon with a group, understanding full well what to expect. Everytime you take the car out you KNOW you're lucky if there is ONE day in which you don't have to deal with an asshole on the road. You either get over a scrape, however pointless it was, and cruise out there again the next day or, sick of it all, adapt yourself to a hermetic lifestyle - minimizing contact with the crowds.

In short, don't vanish just because one person crosses the line in good taste. It happens to all of us here; it's reality and we deal with it. We come back because we know there is a contingent here with our time. Yer a bright, fun feller and it's nice when ya wanna stick around, fer chrissake.

Karma
Frank says: "You know, if Bush does win, I hope the people that voted for him suffer. I hope the economy collapses [..] the lions den will be fed with the bodies of our soldiers. I call it Karma."

After actively wishing that so much privation and harm be visited on so many people, you'd better hope that no such force as Karma actually operates in the universe.

John W:

Thanks for the info on Cat Stevens. It's both sad to know that he has probably been sucker-punched, and good to know he wasn't turned into an asshole by his faith.

I remember a similar distorted quote from Gov. Jesse Ventura, who stated that *some* people did turn their faith into a opiate, only to have the most sensational portions of his statement printed, making him sound like he was quoting Marx, and ignoring the fact that he went to church every Sunday.

Chuck

I am baaaaack!
Well guys and gals...your ever pessimistic or optimistic Republican is back. New living in a new location. Hey Harlan!
Your version of I ROBOT is way better than the Smith debacle.

Can we trust the media?
"""On the news when they announced that astronomers had observed two huge galactic clusters colliding in the constellation Hydra, 800 MILLION LIGHT YEARS AWAY, one of the reporters actually asked the scientist commentator present, "Will this have any effect on the earth?" """

If the collision (which is now, of course, long over) generated gamma rays or (if any of the galaxies had massive black holes at their centers that also collided), gravity waves, there might be a small effect.

I doubt that the reporter was thinking in those terms, but you never know.

ON MONOCULTURALISM: It's not necessarily a US/other nations kinda thing, gang... more like an ongoing lesson in how little most folks pay attention. My favorite example of such happened about 15 years ago, when I was shepherding a group of young Albuquerquean actors around Chicago on a tour. Upon seeing in a local paper that then-pop-queen Paula Abdul was performing nearby, they prevailed on me to use my credit card to secure tickets. I called the number, gave the young lady on the other end of the line my digits, etc., and was then asked in which state the card was issued.

"New Mexico," I said proudly.

There was a long pause.

"I'm sorry, sir," she said. "We aren't allowed to accept cards from other countries."

"Oh, no, you must have misheard me," I replied. "I said NEW Mexico."

To my disbelief, she told me "Old or new, sir, I still can't accept the card."

Well, you can just imagine. It took me ten minutes to teach her enough geography to understand the borders of her own nation, and even then I had to have her look at the map in the phone book before she'd believe me. During said lesson, I asked if she had ever been to college, and she informed me that she did indeed have a college degree... in business, and THAT'S why she didn't know where New Mexico was.

Ignorance? It transcends geographic and cultural boundaries.

Yours from the lost badlands of Albuquerque,
Michael

My One Post this day
Alan Coil:

That was priceless! What a belly laugh. Thanks for making me laugh so hard I broke a lung and punctured my rib.

-Keith

Answers for Douglas Harrison

Why don't we cross-country ski? Because gas is cheap.

Who is Martha Stewart? A former beauty queen/model. Proving that it is better to have smarts as opposed to having good looks.

Why don't we grow our own dope? We do. We made him president.

Scott, Scott, Scott. . .

I'm sorry Scott, you missed the essential differences between the two quotes. Where Albert's is philosophically witty, Harlan's is drop dead funny. It's the timing, Scott! The timing!

Steve "Take My Wife, Please" Dooner

"...I was chatting the other day with a very good friend of mine who is Iraqi (or is it Iranian?)..."

Well, if you don't know if your very good friend is an Iraqi or an Iranian, then yes, I suppose some Americans do have a somewhat myopic view of the world.

====================================

Y'know, Rich, bubie, if I weren't absolutely SURE of the contrary, I'd almost swear you were spoiling for a fight - or something.

Why are you here, Rich? Why do you do this? Because you think it makes you sound terribly smart and cosmopolitan and sophisticated? It doesn't - you only come across as smug and snotty.

Yes, my very good friend. Ethnicity doesn't seem to come up a lot between my friends and me. Likewise, I don't know what state in which many of my friends were born. Does that diminish the friendship? Of course not - because that's not the foundation of the friendship. It only came up between my friend and ,e this time because we were discussing the First Blockhead and how appallingly he's handling the whole Middle Eastern adventure.

This is why I don't visit more often, gang. You try to pour oil on the waters of the Atheist/Christian debate, someone sets the oil on fire, missing the point I was trying to make (i.e., your religion/spirituality is of no importance to anyone but you, what matters is how you treat your fellow man.

You ask a perfectly good question, trying to participate in the conversation, and chumps like this seize on one element of minor relavance to imply detractions from my character and the quality of my friendships.

Well, fine - back into the woodwork I go. You have my email, feel free to write. If I have any questions, I'll certainly get in touch with you. And if there's anything I MUST know from Harlan, I'll ask him. Otherwise, this is probably the last you'll hear from me for awhile.

Cheers,
Doc

Returned earlier this week from a trip to beautiful Ocala, FL which featured Ivan watches, sick in-laws, downed trees, bugs having sex all over me (and Deb), electric cars, motorized wheelchairs and as a grand finale, the handling of a 300 pound dead body.

It's a long story.....and it gives you pause to think on this Evening Of The Jew.

Wishing those of you out there who have the faith an introspective and peaceful Yom Kippur. Get in that book! And no sneaking breath mints!

-TODD

I've always been confused at the amount of praise HE receives for his quote about hydrogen and stupidity. I would hold the comment in higher regard myself, except for this:

"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." -- Albert Einstein

Now, not accusing the patron author of plagarism, but essentially Ellison unintentionally copped another and better put summation of some of the behaviour of the thing called human.

Sorry, not one for praising an echo.

Scott

You know, if Bush does win, I hope the people that voted for him suffer. I hope the economy collapses, and that Wall Street morons will have to stand in long lines, getting government cheese--and I hope they choke on it.

This country deserves what it gets. Maybe raising the whip will wake people up. The lions den will be fed with the bodies of our soldiers. I call it Karma.

Slowly but surely we sink into the "peace and safety" of Lovecraft's coming dark age.

On the news when they announced that astronomers had observed two huge galactic clusters colliding in the constellation Hydra, 800 MILLION LIGHT YEARS AWAY, one of the reporters actually asked the scientist commentator present, "Will this have any effect on the earth?"

Received this email from Haffner Press. Thought some of you completists may be interested as note last line of first full paragraph.

NEW RELEASE!

Seventy-Five: The Diamond Anniversary of a Science Fiction Pioneer—Jack Williamson

Edited by Stephen Haffner & Richard A. Hauptmann

A literary and visual feast, this 8.5" x 11" 603 page hardcover celebrates the first seventy-five years of Jack Williamson’s career in Science Fiction. From “The Metal Man” in 1928 to his recent Hugo and Nebula Award-winning novella “The Ultimate Earth,” inside are some of the best of Williamson’s stories, including excerpts of such classic novels as The Legion of Space, Golden Blood and The Legion of Time. Also included are several never-before-published gems such as a vintage 1930s tale “The Crystal Castle,” a collaboration with long-time friend Edmond Hamilton, and a story originally commissioned for Last Dangerous Visions, “Previews of Hell.”

Sidebars with essays, correspondence, and articles are decorated with over 300 book and magazine covers and interior illustrations. A full-color 32-page section features an illustrated timeline of the author’s career, and reprints a complete story arc from Jack Williamson and Lee Elias’ 1950s Sunday comic strip, Beyond Mars. Seventy-Five: The Diamond Anniversary of a Science Fiction Pioneer also features a foreword by award-winning author Connie Willis and an introduction by a fellow pioneer, Sir Arthur C. Clarke.

The 1000-copy trade edition sells for $50 each plus $5.00 shipping, add $1.00 for each additional book.

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We will be updating www.haffnerpress.com in the next few days with images and sample pages.

Cat Stevens
Re: Neal Johnson

Yusuf Islam/Cat Stevens in his own words: (via his website)

"So…back in February 1989 I was delivering a talk about my journey to Islam at Kingston University in London, when somebody (probably a disguised journalist) mischievously posed a question about Islam’s view on apostates and blasphemers. As a student who had studied the issue for the first time, I simply did my best by answering direct from legal texts which I had read.

Instead of reporting my response in context, which I naively expected, suddenly the headline in next day’s paper read “Cat Says Kill Rushdie!” Well, needless to say, all hell then broke loose and my political education had really begun. Thank God the newspaper responsible, Today, has since folded and is now out of circulation; unfortunately the monstrous myth it created still survives.

What I actually tried to do at the lecture in Kingston, and subsequently during other interviews, was to quote ‘from the book’ what Islam says about the legal consequences for someone who commits blasphemy within the context of Islamic law where it is adopted and applied, I never ever sanctioned people taking the law in their own hands or overstepping the laws of the Britain which is what the Fatwa of Ayatollah Khomeini proposed. The truth is I never once stated support for the ‘Fatwa’

I was simply a new Muslim who had stated something which I considered quite plain and obvious and if you were to ask a bible student you know what the Ten Commandments were you would expect him to repeat them honestly, you wouldn't blame him for doing so; the Bible is full of similar headlines if you’re looking for them."

Doesn't sound to me like he retracted anything, so much as he got sucker-punched and is trying to dispell what has become an urban legend. Obviously, it ain't working.

If someone asks me a question about Catholic doctrine, I can probably give a reasonably accurate explanation of the Church's view on the matter without advocating it myself. Which, as a "fallen away" Catholic, I do quite often.

I don't know myself what organizations the guy gives to and supports, but I do know he gave a portion of his boxed set CD royalties to families of 9/11 victims. I'm not a fan, y'understand, I'm just impatient with the idea that he's a threat. I face greater dangers on the DC Beltway.

I understand Anne Rice's rage wholeheartedly, but she really should have known that the majority of Amazon.com reviewers are pointlessly malevolent. I'd imagine that a good portion of them are wannabe writers, and because they can't find any source of legitimate publication outside of chat forums, they're taking out their sophomoric frustrations on those who actually have something resembling a LIFE.

US
ON A HORSE WITH NO NAME: It has always saddened me to see that the most diversely-cultured country on the planet is so often seen as a monoculture. Granted, a lot of this is because of one simple fact that saddens me even more: That our mass media, here in this land of a million dances, is a virtual oligopoly, with only a handful of companies determining what we watch, listen to, read, and what news we are given.

Oh, sure--there are indie newspapers, small-press publishers, small record labels ... but all of them put together can't compete with the steady raging river of entertainment put out by a Bertlesmann AG, or an AOL Time Warner, or a Disney/Capital Cities/ABC/ESPN.

That controlled control, is why we are seen as gangster-cowboys in a country with only three different cultures. That eager corporate nipple thrust into our mouths willy-or-nilly is why shit so often rises.

And God help me, short of an internationally-prosecuted antitrust push, it's only going to get worse.


SPEAKING OF MEDIA: ... and books, and writers ...

Seems Anne Rice's new vampire book hasn't been all that well-received. In fact, if you go onto Amazon.com, you'll see review after angry, betrayed review berating it as if it were the worst thing set to paper since THE PROTOCOLS OF THE ELDERS OF ZION or THE BRIDGES OF MADISON COUNTY.
(Big shock: Harriet Klaussner loved it.)

And Rice saw this. And she liked not at all what she saw.

So, in her own book's Reviews section on Amazon, she posted an angry, rambling diatribe against those who would so malign her newest work. She went so far as to publish both her e-mail and snail mail addresses, and exhorted those who hated it to send it directly to her for a refund. The rant has since been removed from the site, but several people have saved it and posted it in their web logs--if you take a few moments to look, it shouldn't be hard to find.

Now, one of the things I loved about the internet was the immediacy and intimacy it gave to readers and writers; many writers started their own websites, or posted frequently to bulletin boards or fora, and e-mail became a way to directly contact or be contacted by one's favorite authors.

(And, you know, it's really cool to see a Mary Gentle, or Peter David, or Lois Bujold, or the late Jack Olsen pop up in one's InBox)

But this Rice-review thing is a whole new permutation for authors--one almsot never seen outside of, say, the John Byrne forum ...

HARLAN: I don't suppose if I batted my eyelashes and pressed my thumbs and index fingers together over my head to form a cute little halo that would help my case any, would it? Because I'm positive I misremembered the title. I bow, I scrape, I froth with shame and consternation. I bang scraped-up knuckles against a protuberant brow and wake the neighbors with my lamentations. But I implore you to consider that: a) in posing the question, however sloppily, I was merely trying to be helpful, and b) if you wanna cut me guts out, you've gotta come to Italy, muhfugga. Still, if you can live with killing off "the Hemingway of his generation" (which is how Justin has taken to referring to himself), and should you wish to treat Susan to an Italian vacation, I will humbly prostrate myself on the cobblestones and submit to your Justice in the medieval piazza, in front of the church, two steps away from my casa. Very embarassed, I remain,

yr. faithful numbskull,

Justin

Rick,

I am indeed a nitwit, but my request for preferred-poster access to SCI-FI BUZZ segments you do not possess was but a sly ruse -- a ruse to prompt you to reword your previous post in a way that would convince BUZZ collectors like Jason M. to cough up the goods.

Okay, the truth. It was Keith. He's to blame for my poor understanding of strange American tech terms like "capture" and "video"; he tutored me in such jargon at DragonCon in return for three signed photos of Lorenzo Lamas.

--------------------------------

America remains a mystery to me. Why do her citizens not cross-country ski? Why do they not grow more of their own dope? And who the hell is Martha Stewart?

D.

HE Aphorism & Iraq Media
(1) Harlan said:

'...which translates to "hydrogen and stupidity" -- from my aphorism

"L'idrogeno e l'idiozia sono gli elementi piu comuni dell'universo" -- the two most common elements in the universe are hydrogen and stupidity."'

This phrase is quoted on my webshite as one of my favourite sayings. I first read it in a short censorship item in OMNI, and Harlan was one of the writers airing their views on the topic.

What I did not know for sure back then was whether it was your own phrase, Harlan, or simply one in common use. I tried to verify the source of this line when I added it to my bio page, but obviously I didn't try hard enough, although it sure sounded like an Ellison original. Mystery solved; I'll add your credit. No longer do I have to mumble, "...I think Harlan Ellison came up with that line, but I'm not 100% sure." The kicker is that some of these people had already heard the line!


(2) Doc said:

"Just to drop a potato into the borsht, I thought I'd ask: What do you folks think of the way many (most?) Middle Eastern nations are presented by the media?"

Here is a concise article by Project Censored about media censorship in Iraq:

http://www.projectcensored.org/publications/2005/22.html

A Startling Request
Harlan,

could you, someday at your and Rick Wyatt's convenience (i.e., whenever you both feel like it), post your "Xenogenesis" essay on this site? Linking to it when dealing with the online fan community would be greatly useful - like withdrawing a Louisville slugger from a tiny Louis Vuitton purse in a Tex Avery pinch. If you get my meaning.

Yr adoring friend, Bob

Overheard in a shoe store on a recent trip to Toronto:

"In America, you can get a gun anywhere! If you go to the bank to open an account--they give you a gun! If you go to the market for milk--you get bullets! I know! I went to Montana!"

...I guess I'm relieved I don't live in Montana.

Jews and banks
Adam, all Jews do own banks. Mine is shaped like a cute little piggy. I don't think it's entirely kosher.

Foreigners do say the funniest things, to warp Art Linkletter to fit. Back in 1996, some friends of ours, recent immigrants from the former Soviet Union, asked us why everyone on our street was selling their homes. What? we asked. Who says people are selling their houses? They all have signs on their lawns, our Russian friends explained. Isn't that why?

They must have thought Clinton and Dole were the realtors.

Ignorance by others of us
About 25 years ago I was the overnight houseguest of a korean couple, teachers at the University I attended. They learned I was Jewish and asked me what bank my father owned. I could not, in good conscience, interpret the question as harsh anti-semitism; they were nothing but kind toward me. They just thought that all Jews owned banks.

Children of the Streets ... at long last
Those of you desiring to pre-order "Children of the Streets" while also supporting your local independent bookseller may do so thus:

http://www.booksense.com/product/info.jsp?isbn=0727861050

Simply type in your ZIP, and the site will connect you to your nearest non-corporate pulp wrangler, who will be able to deliver the precious tome via mail or across the counter come December.

You can also follow the link from the home page of Islets of Langerhans (http://www.islets.net), and your purchase will help support The Reporters' Committee for the Freedom of the Press in its efforts to turn back attacks on the First Amendment, Ashcroftian and otherwise.

The preceding has been a noncommercial announcement. And from those of us who have waited 43 years for this book to rise again ... thanks, Harlan.

ZUZ

Mark:

"Cobwebs and Strange" for CSI: Salem, Mass.

"Long Live Rock" for CSI: Cleveland

"Cooks County" for CSI: Chicago

"The Acid Queen" for CSI: San Francisco

"Whiskey Man" for CSI: Lynchburg

"Pictures Of Lily" for CSI: Rochester (home of Eastman Kodak)

Scott, riding up in front of a hundred faces...

O Glorious Day!
The Tertiary Phase of The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy has begun on BBC4 and rebroadcast online at

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/hitchhikers/newseries.shtml

I am ENORMOUSLY HAPPY.

REPLY TO JUSTIN

In 1999, Fanucci Editore in Rome did an elegant Italian paperback edition of SHATTERDAY under the title

IDROGENO E IDIOZIA

which translates to "hydrogen and stupidity" -- from my aphorism
"L'idrogeno e l'idiozia sono gli elementi piu comuni dell'universo" -- the two most common elements in the universe are hydrogen and stupidity.

They did, indeed, send me Author's copies. But now you ask me if I have a copy of something called

IDROGENO E STUPIDITA

which is either a new edition of the same book, under a slightly altered title--which hasn't been sent to me, nor about which I have any knowledge, including additional payment for a new edition--or, well, you have been slovenly in remembering the title, and have sent me scurrying through the stacks on hands and knees with my bad back, to find a book by that title.

If the former, by all means get me one or more copies. (The 1st edition is a mostly chocolate brown cover with ripped bits of photos showing a brain, a color graph, a bifurcated black man, a woman's lips, and a pair of red plastic dice. The logo on the front cover says "AvantPop" and the indicia page says "Prima edizione: 1999." It cost L 16.000 and the ISBN is 88-347-0685-4.) I will, of course, reimburse you for any outlay of monies, and postage, etcetera. If it is the latter, book anonymous passage to Dakkar, because such slovenliness of transcription must of needs force me to disembowel you.

Anxiously awaiting your reply so I can enjoy myself one way or the other, Yr. pal, Harlan

David: Funny you should mention the BBC "As You Like It" since I showed my Shakespeare class a portion of that production last night. The students really enjoyed, got the jokes, the verbal sparring and the stinging wit of Touchstone. I agree, Brian Stirner plays Orlando as wet noodle, a neutered fop unworthy of Mirren's Rosalind. But Richard Pasco's Jaques is quite good and James Bolam pulls off a snarky Touchstone. Helen Mirren is money in the bank, and in the words of Stan Lee, 'nuff said. And, of course, we must tip our hat to David Prowse as the wrestler Charles, bodyslamming the competition sans helmet, sans faceplate, sans black cape, sans Darth.

Those BBC production are low budget all the way, but they're not without their charm and every so often a stellar performance slips through.

And yes, Pete Townshend selling his catalogue to the CSI franchise is sad, but songs by The Clash put in service to sell cars is tragic.

Fellow Webderlanders: If you haven't picked up a copy of Peter David's new Madrox, I recommend doing so. It's not exactly Fallen Angel, but it promises to be fun.

Mark

Doc

Broadcast media has to turn a profit just like everything else. They report what we want to watch.

If the coverage seems unbalanced to you it only indicates that you are not part of the media’s target audience.

Try the Christian Science Monitor.

Can you CSI the Real Me?

The third and latest series in the CSI franchise -- "CSI: New York" starring Gary Sinise -- debuted last night. This franchise is going to be supplying Pete Townshend's retirement income for years to come.

I was mildly annoyed when "Who Are You" turned up as the theme music for the first CSI (Las Vegas) a few years back. But I liked the show, not least because the underappreciated William L. Petersen, whom I'd enjoyed in "To Life and Die in LA,"
"Manhunter," and even the terribly limp "Amazing Grace and Chuck," was finally getting steady work.

By the time "CSI: Miami" rolled around two years ago with "Won't Get Fooled Again" as its theme, I was getting a kick out of the association, however unlikely.

Now CSI:NY has shown up with "Baba O'Reilly" (sans the teenage wasteland chorus) backing its opening sequence. I saw a news story that said the director was lobbying for "Behind Blue Eyes," but got overruled by the money guys.

This got me to musing about what OTHER Who songs could be appropriately used for further CSI spinoffs. Here's what I came up with this morning:

"Love, Reign O'er Me" -- CSI: Seattle

"(Can You See) The Real Me" -- CSI: Hollywood

"Squeeze Box" -- CSI: New Orleans

"I Can See For Miles" -- CSI: Lubbock (or Nebraska?)

How about a hybrid series . . . CSI: SVU with "Trick of the Light" as its theme?!

Seriously, the CSI opening sequences seem to lean on the flashier parts -- Townshend windmilling, Daltrey screaming -- so I would highly recommend the scorching Townshend guitar solo from "Cry If You Want" (the very last song on the very last Who album) as theme music for another CSI series. . . .

Any suggestions from the rest of youse guys?

Oh, yeah. Remember how I rhapsodized about Helen Mirren and her appearance in the BBC Shakespeare "As You Like It" back in the late 1970s? I watched the DVD recently; it's AWFUL! Sound is terrible, the male lead who plays Orlando is limp, and most of the rest of the acting is pretty pedestrian. They filmed it in and around Castle Glamis (Macbeth reference!) in Scotland, but the "Forest of Arden" sometimes looks like a tree farm.

Mirren is pretty good, as always, but it's a shame to see her in such poor company. Carole and I are salving the bad taste by rewatching all the "Prime Suspect" series in order. Man, that's great writing and acting -- all around!

Trivia note: while reading Eileen Warburton's new bio of the awesome John Fowles, I noticed that the author's preference to play The French Lieutenant's Woman back in 1975 was none other than Helen Mirren. What a Sarah she would have made!

Moore To Descend Into The Inferno
Your hero, The Man Himself, will descend into....

Provo, Utah

later this month.

But don't you fret none, my fellow Mormon Republican friends. Our Saviour, Emperor Hannity, will swoop in on his magic American flag carpet and make it all better. AAAHHHHHHHH....

http://www.harktheherald.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=35459&mode=thread&order=0&thold=0

Media fairness; this country; Yusef Isalm Cat Stevens
Frank,

Despite political rancor, this is still a great country, and 8 or 30 years of Republican leadership (even Christian Republican leadership) will not damage it over-much. Social activism of any kind (conservative or liberal) tends to swing like a pendulum. The grass is always greener....Could it be better? Of course. We must be vigilant and progressive and caring.

Neal, your musings made me think. How many organizations have I contributed money to, where I had an accounting of every cent that was spent? 0. Should Yusuf be expelled? If he knowingly supported a terrorist organization, yes. But then, as Frank would point out, the US has supported terrorist organizations for years...granted: the US is a government, and Yusef is an individual. There is a big difference. If he gave money to organizations which supported terrorism unknowingly, then he should be allowed back here. That would be a dangerous precedent, I think.

All: As for fair media coverage of the Muddle-East (pi); it happens now, but people need to read widely. If you think about it, the largest news organizations got that way by appealing to the largest possible audience, i.e. the LCD. So we have to ask ourselves what other news sources we should be looking to for information (not CNN, FOX, CBS, ABC, or NBC). I subscribe to The Week, which presents a very balanced, concise view of most major issues each week, and pulls information and opinion from hundreds of news sources, most of them conflicting about the same topic, which is a wonderful presentation. I also watch BBC News and Deutche news on PBS, and browse a few Arabic on-line newspapers as well. It is up to us to seek out such information, because nobody is going to spoon-feed it to us. If I want to see what's up in the Scott Peterson trial, I turn on CNN. If I want to know what's up in Iraq, I turn on BBC World News.

-Keith

Frank,

Relax pal, this country has survived and prospered in spite of all the knuckleheads that have come and gone. Things will be no different this time 'round.

i'm a little muddled


All,

I am trying to wrangle an opinion out of myself with regard to the recent Yusuf Islam (Cat Stevens)incident. But I get confused.

Islam did come out in support of Ayatollah Khomeini's bounty on Salman Rushdie, correct?

And although he tempered those remarks, I understand that he never entirely retracted them.

To me this paints him not as the "moderate" individual that some make him out to be. This makes him look like a radical of some sort. To me.

The fact that he is on some sort of US government "Watch List", I know, is due to possible ties with terrorist organizations such as Hamas (he supposedly donated money), and not because of the Rushdie thing. But the Rushdie thing makes him look like an extremist. Correct?

And not long ago he came out against the war in Iraq. This also further solidifies the case against him, I am sure. (Despite the fact that half of the US is in agreement with Mr. Islam.)

I don't know what scares me more: that the artist who gave us "Peace Train" is possibly linked to an Arab terrorist organization, or that, despite popular wisdom, it is still unsafe to be the awe-inspiring Salman Rushdie.

Nonplussed,

Neal

On the Outside, Looking In

The insularity of Americans re: their knowledge of the rest of the world is well-established, I think.

However, what’s less well-known (and discussed) is that the reverse is also true: I’ve been astonished sometimes by the wacky perspectives that otherwise intelligent, well-traveled Europeans (and people from other countries) have of the U.S., based on their interpretations of both our media and theirs.

True story: 12 years ago, my wife and I had a young couple from Belgium visit us in San Francisco, where we were living at the time. My wife had befriended them when she was on a trip to Italy, and we’ve remained friends with them ever since. Our friends, Jacques and Suzanne, live in Brussels, speak English, French, and a bit of Flemish, and at the time, had traveled all over the world – Europe, northern Africa, South America, etc. This was their first time in the U.S., and after staying with us for a few days, they were going to do a driving trip to Big Sur, L.A., Yosemite, the Grand Canyon, etc.

So, my wife and I were driving Jacques and Suzanne around SF, showing them the sights, and Jacques leaned forward and said quietly, “Jon, are we going to see cars chasing one another on these hills, with men shooting at each other?”

I laughed and said, “uh… what?”

He repeated it, and upon further questioning, I realized that he was NOT JOKING.

He was completely serious – he genuinely thought that he had a better-than-average chance of seeing a “Bullitt-style” car chase on any random day in San Francisco, and that he would probably witness random shoot-em-ups by gangs and/or cowboys throughout his trip in the American western states. I explained that, regardless of what he’d heard about the U.S., it was actually unlikely. (And, after a month traveling all over the Southwest, our friends came back to SF and said they’d had a great time, that people had been incredibly friendly, and they’d had no bad experiences of any kind. I couldn’t tell if they were slightly disappointed they didn’t see random car explosions during their trip or not.)

Yes, Americans tend to be naïve and incredibly uninformed (and uninterested) in understanding the nuances of other countries and cultures. But it does cut both ways, folks. My friend Jacques isn’t the only one – I’ve met various people outside the U.S., and have read comments from people online, that indicate many DO kinda-sorta believe what they see in Hollywood movies and American TV shows – that the entire U.S. is a land of either cowboys or gangbangers, where every man drives fast sports cars (or rides fast horses) and wields powerful handguns for our regular “High Noon” shootouts, and every woman is blonde, bikini-clad and walking eternally on sun-kissed beaches, ‘cause “Baywatch” said so.

As usual, the truth is somewhere in the middle.

My struggling, pink little fingers can grasp the onyx piglet, but I cannot smell the porcine stench from the dark place that resides on the other side of the fence.

I take it nobody is as scared as I am about Bush seemingly taking back the White House?

Believe me, you will be, once this country turns into a third world dumpster.

Am scared. In a block of ice, waiting for the long winter.

CHILDREN OF THE STREETS
Amazon is offering CHILDREN OF THE STREETS. Pub date in USA will be December 16th.

Arabs Vilified
Y'know...it is true that Arabs and Muslims (not the same thing) re frequently vilified in film, but it seems to me that Hollywood has been bending over backwards to portray sympathetic models since 9/11.

For instance, on the new TV show LOST, the one Muslim castaway is certain to come under suspicion for what happened to the airplane, but he seems certain to be revealed as a nice guy and one of the show's heroes.

But the argument goes the other way.

I can recall a fair-to-middling action movie with Kurt Russell, EXECUTIVE DECISION, about a bunch of arab terrorists who hijack a jumbo jet with the intent of crashing it into Washington DC. This movie came out well before 9/11, and was an effective example of its type. It was vilified, in one review after another, for "stereotyping" the arab terrorists, and suggesting that even they would be crazy enough to hijack a plane full of people for the purpose of using it as a missile. Really. All the reviews declared that this was over-the-top evil even for terrorists, and that the premise was downright ridiculous.

(Shrug)

"...I was chatting the other day with a very good friend of mine who is Iraqi (or is it Iranian?)..."

Well, if you don't know if your very good friend is an Iraqi or an Iranian, then yes, I suppose some Americans do have a somewhat myopic view of the world.

DOC, The media definitely plays a huge role. Check out Jack Shaheen's book, "Reel Bad Arabs-How Hollywood Vilifies a People", and you'll see how Arabs are stereotyped in 1000's of movies. Check out "Middle East Report" and "Washington Times" magazines for an Arab viewpoint. When I speak to my family in Lebanon, it's normal conversation of what anybody here talks about...family, school, pets, kids, work, etc. Also, check out Mitri Raheb's new book, "Bethlehem Besieged". He is a Christian Palestinian pastor living in Bethlehem and he describes one incident when the Red Crescent ambulance was trying to deliver his father-in-law, who just suffered a massive heart attack, to a hospital in Jerusalem and the Israeli guards wouldn't let the ambulance pass because the father-in-law's permit was only for "business" purposes. He died 2 weeks later. It was sickening. You won't read about that in the American press. The book is touted by McGovern and Desmond Tutu. Ever hear anything about Rachel Koury...the American who was run over and killed in Israel by an Israeli Bulldover built in the USA? Anyway, I've spouted long enough...sorry.

Doc asked

What do you folks think of the way many (most?) Middle Eastern nations are presented by the media?

It sucks. But it isn't some conspiracy to distort information by the "Media", it's just that most Americans are so insular that they don't know, don't want to know. But then again how much do Americans know about what goes on in Canada, much less Lebanon?

Next time you meet a fundamentalist christian ranting about their unconditional support for Israel, point out that many of those Arab villages that the IMF have been paving over are CHRISTIAN, not Muslim.

John Heatter: "I AM NOT A NUMBER! I AM A FREE MAN!"

Not to harass anyone who digs that show as much as I do, but the tragedy of having great archives is that no one ever reads'em; hence, like the wheels of that Penny Farthing bike, forum topics inevitably return to the same point.

I'm an irascible s.o.b. tonight, whatya want? I just saw these erotic photos of Jessica Alba (from Cameron's 'Dark Angel', now cast to play Sue Storm in the god-knows-how-it'll-turn-out FF movie) online...and just knowing I ain't gettin' THAT...well, let's just say I'm a wee upset about it. Now I'm gonna be dreamin' about oil geysers all night.

...I'm sorry, am I rambling?

Children of the Streets

Harlan,

Book arrived today. Looks delightful. Many thanks, and all the best.

--Tony

Few Questions For Harlan......
To Harlan Ellison:

Thank you for answering my question about Galaxy Online, and if you don't mind (and are so inclined) there are a few things I have been wondering for a few years that I would love if you could answer for me. If this is being too intrusive I apologize...

"Paladin Of The Lost Hour"- what differences did you and the director have over this that caused him to remove his name from the segment (personally I thought it was an amazing segment)?

"Crazy As A Soup Sandwich"- Did this episode of TZ meet your expectations? I ask because I didn't see the episode until after I read the story and I felt that it was presented to slap-sticky (is that even a term) and too cartoony. When I was reading the story I didn't picture the events so "Looney Toons" like.

"D'Jinn, No Chaser"- As with the above TZ episode I found it to be too slap-stick although with this one I have not read the story this was based on.

"Sunday: Special Edition Big Brother"-What is this? When my dad died a few years ago, my brother and I went through all his old VHS tapes as we were cleaning out his apartment and the first 2 minutes of this was on the end of a tape. The tape runs out just as they start to talk to you and I would love to see this whole show but doing a Google search brings up nothing. Do you have this? Do you know who owns this and if I am not overstepping my bounds does anyone here have this? The tape also has 4 old "Tomorrow" shows from 79 and 80 on it and those made for some great viewing (I was 4 and 5 when they aired but they were really fun to see, and in surprisingly good condition after all this time). Again, if I am not overstepping I would LOVE to see other old "Tomorrow" episodes if you were on them.

Thank you for taking the time to read all this nonsense.

Josh Hadley

If We Can Discuss This Without Raising Our Voices...
Just to drop a potato into the borsht, I thought I'd ask: What do you folks think of the way many (most?) Middle Eastern nations are presented by the media?

I ask this, because I was chatting the other day with a very good friend of mine who is Iraqi (or is it Iranian?), and he tells me that we are by NO means getting anything like the whole picture. It's not all soldiers and anti-American riots, and women in black cotton body-armor and the like. There are students who go out for pizza, people who slip some Miles Davis into the CD player when they've a mind to, and families that sit down together and watch "The Simpsons" (in Farsi - get your head around THAT, if you can; and what's Farsi for "D'oh!"?) or "Friends" (shudder).

All of which brought home an idea that I suppose should have been obvious, but never *really* occurred to me before, on this scale: America is manipulated as much by its media as we always hear about Those People (pick a country) being manipulated by theirs, if not more so. I mean, I *knew* we were being yanked, but didn't realise how far it goes. And I find it very disturbing and disheartening to think that certain groups of people keep the American people in such ignorance simply to fuel Their (you know - Them?) power base.

Any thoughts on this? Have I had a "apostrophe", or just discovered a new and exciting aspect of my own paranoia?

Cheers,
Doc

SCI-FI BUZZ Commentaries

RICK,

I have a handful of the commentaries on a full size Super VHS tape. I have access to the equipment necessary to digitze them either to Mini DV tape or onto my computer, or even possibly onto a VCD or DVD. What would be the best way to send them to you (i.e. electronic or snail mail) and in what format would you prefer them?

Feel free to e-mail me at the address above if you don't want to clog the pavillion with the details.

Haha!

Rick, I am so stupid!!! I had to go back and re-read your post, and of course you said exactly what you said you said. I must have skimmed over it the first time. I'm very sorry for giving it half my attention. Obviously, if I ever find those tapes of mine (I had about 6 of them), I'll convert Harlan's segment to digital and send 'em on to you.

Douglas: I am sorry, my Canadian pal. I must have mislead you as well. This sucks rooster balls.

-Keith

There was a reason I put PART OF MY POST IN ALL CAPS, you nitwits
I don't *HAVE* the Sci-Fi Buzz segments (except for the ones already at http://harlanellison.com/buzz). What I do have is permission to put them up on the site.

I *DO* have the Galaxy Online segments (segments 1-8 in .asf format). What I do *NOT* have is permission to put them up on the site.

If someone wants to get me transcripts or captures of the segments in the first case, or permission in the second, I'll gladly host them. If one of you has the sci-fi buzzes on VHS, I can see if I can find someone to transfer them to digital.

The Prisoner

All this talk of the "sciffy" buzz segments has gotten me all nostalgic.

One of my personal favorite Harlan moments was when he hosted the Labor day marathon of "The Prisoner." Damn, how long ago was that? ten, eleven years?

Anyway, that was and probably still is my favorite television show ever.

"I AM NOT A NUMBER! I AM A FREE MAN!"

Dearest Rick,

I desire the SCI-FI BUZZ segments ever so much more than Keith does, so please insure that I get to download them first.

D.

It's the Incompetence, Stupid
I ran across this (two-year old!) article on Democratic Underground that perfectly expresses the real issue of the current election:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/articles/02/06/04_stupid.html

It's the Incompetence, Stupid!

This point, it seems to me, is the one Kerry is finally raising, with some success, about George W. Bush, and this is the point that Bush is trying to obscure by going so heavily negative in his campaigning.

In the same way that Clinton beat Bush I with the economy--and there's life in that issue, too, I should think--Kerry needs to confront Bush II's consistently wrong choices of the wrong actions at the wrong times: Should we go in to Iraq, or try to finish what was going on in Afghanistan? Should we send our troops in to Tora Bora where we have Al Quaida surrounded or leave it to the easily bribed local militias? Should we plan for an occupation in Iraq or just hope it will all turn out all right?

Bush cannot run successfully on his record, so he has to attack Kerry to obscure that salient fact. Also, think of the SHOCK! SHOCK! of the Fox News partisans if "It's the Incompetence, Stupid!" should appear in big letters ona whiteboard at Kerry campaign headquarters. They do so hate it when the campaign gets nasty against their boy.

I write in the hope that everyone in the country will soon know this line, and have been cheerfully mailing it everywhere I can. Pass it along!

HARLAN: Did the Italian publisher of IDROGENO E STUPIDITA ever end you a copy of the book? If not, and you're interested in obtaining a copy, let me know and I'll see if I can find one for you.

Sci-Fi Buzz Video
Rick,

I'd love to get copies of Harlan's commentary from Sci-Fi Buzz. I only saw about six of them, and I lost my tapes of them long before I could convert them to a digital format.

-Keith

Galaxy Online Commentaries
I have Harlan's Galaxy Online commentaries 1-8 archived in .asf format. About 80mb of data.

However, these are personal use only and I can't give them out. I'd be happy to convert them to another format (maybe .avi or MPeg) and put them on the site. However, I'd need permission from whoever holds the copyright to do so.

Also, please note I *do* have permission to put all the sci-fi buzz video and text transcripts up IF ANYONE EVER WANTS TO CAPTURE IT AND/OR WRITE UP MORE TRANSCRIPTS.

REPLY TO JOSH HADLEY

Sorry, I can't be of any assistance in finding those Galaxy Online commentaries I did. I have file copies, of course, but those remain with me, for obvious reasons, and don't get loaned out. But you might make appeal to the Webderlanders hereabouts.

All best otherwise,

Yr. pal, Harlan

Harlan goes to Gormenghast
I was wandering the web the other day, and ran across the Mervyn Peake page. Peake, of course, was the author--and illustrator--of the brilliant "Gormenghast" trilogy, a creation I've always considered far superior to "The Lord of the Rings." And what did I find on the Peake page?

Harlan Ellison, of course. Specifically, the cover illustration for "A Boy and His Dog" from "New Worlds," drawn by Peake. Peake died in 1968, so this was likely among his final works.

Take a gander, folks. The URL is http://www.gormenghastcastle.co.uk/graphics/nwcover1.jpg

There are also some other Peake pieces I was unfamiliar with, supplied by Mike Moorcock.
http://www.gormenghastcastle.co.uk/foot1.html

Galaxy Online.....?
First time here so I don't know if this is the correct place for this but Harlan, is there a place I can download (legally) the Galaxy segments you did (I think it was Galaxy Online)? The website has been gone for sometime (at least I can't find it) and I saw all of those a few years ago and would like to see them again if you have them.

Matthew Davis: Thanks bunches. I hit myself in the head as soon as I read 'Mervyn Peake.' Since it wasn't my work, I was having fun trying to trace ideas through bibliographies of artists, which was indeed fun and yielded the existence of a book called A Dictionary of 20th Century British Illustrators, among other things.

Cheers, Jon

Avast ye! Methinks ye've yet to go on account, ye an' yer longclothes! It's Keel Haul with ye!

NEAL JOHNSON: Hank Graham is as good a repository for that extra copy of THE SEVEN WHO FLED as anyone. By all means, spread the pleasure of extraordinary art.

DORMAN T. SHINDLER: Tried calling you, but after being advised yours was a "blocked number" for those who would not reveal themselves, I did the fingerdance and got your line...which rang...and rang...and rang...and rang...and rang...and rang...

Please call me. Collect, no prob. Codewords to refresh my otherwise abstrcted memory: Satchel Paige / BBQ crackle.

At your earliest convenience, mon ami.

Yr. pal, Harlan

Seven Who Fled
If Harlan has a suggestion, go with it, but if not, I'd really like to read the book, based on what I've read of it in this forum.

Children of the Streets
Harlan,

Will watch the mailbox. Thanks for the copy and the kind words -- happy to be of help.

All the best, and a belated Happy Anniversary to you & Susan.

--tr

The Seven Who Fled

Unca Harlan,

I have discovered another copy of "The Seven Who Fled". This makes copy #2 for me and I would like to get it into good hands. To whom should I give it? Who do you know someone who may deserve a copy? Lemme know.

Respectfully,

Neal

Graeme
Not to throw myself on the heap of folks you describe as saying as much, but I've got to join the chorus of "don't look askance at starting afresh." If you've got this thing in it's completed form you've got the gumption to stick with a project and do right by it. That's something to crow about, man. So don't burn what you've done but do put it on the back burner. Earn your chops with your own work, and then once you're a King bring this up as the project you'd always wanted to see done.

Don't get me wrong - starting over has to be a daunting thought and I don't envy you. But having to wrangle lawyers on top of approaching publishers? Yeegh... it's enough to make my extremities itch. *grin* On the other hand, I shouldn't be mistaken for an informed opinion. Best of luck with whatever you do.

An Overdue Thanks
When I began seriously visiting this site about a year ago, there was much discussion about King’s Dark Tower series. Based on this I took the stab and had my mother buy the first five volumes for me as a Christmas present. (Yes, I am almost 50 years old, but there is never anything wrong with getting something free from Mommy.)

Thank you one and all for this recommendation.

I am finally on the fifth book – ONLY, because I refuse to rush through them the way I would prefer. The anticipation between books is almost as good as the reading, and the reading is very good indeed. (And I’ve timed it so I may be one of the few who gets to read the whole thing through without waiting eons between books.)

Thanks again.

Lee – Sophie is a genius.

Mike

I notice the skiffy network is airing a new program called 'Ghost Hunters,' which has these experts search for possible hauntings. What makes me mention this is the simple fact that I sent them an email many moons ago, suggesting a reality show called, 'Celebrity Ghost Hunters.' The name is real close to my suggestion, but I do not know if I have a leg to stand on legally. Any suggestions would be helpful.

I am not kidding. Really.

FAO Jon Stover (cont.)
Max Beerbohm illustrated his novel "Zuleika Dobson"

Most of Alisdair Gray's books are intricately and ornamentally illustrated.

Ralph Steadman has illustratrated a number of novels.

I'm pretty sure there was an illustrated version of J.G. Ballard's "The Artrocity Exhibition"

And I'm pretty sure quite a few of John Buchan's books are illustrated, although this may be because they were published as as parts of series aimed at children

The Uninformed, part 2

To finish the rant, I think it's worth noting that while Harlan's quote about uninformed opinions is a good one, and easily applicable to the majority of yahoos one runs into in daily life, denizens of this board must be given the benefit of the doubt.

It's a well-read group, and I think most here takes pride in being such. It's not easy being literate in the Age of Idiocy, and I'm sure many here are familiar with the smirks or stares at work that follow when they use a word not heard on "Friends" reruns, or cite a book not sold at the grocery store.

So Siano has to be cut some slack. I've knocked heads with him often in the past, but I've never doubted his prep. If Brian thinks Roth is a tool, then as far as I'm concerned that's a considered opinion that doesn't need a notarized bibliography to back it up.

There's not a lot of us, pallies, so we should watching each other's backs, not jumping on them.

GRAEME:

What you propose, what you have already done, what you're contemplating, is so filled with trouble, roadblocks, pitfalls, obstructionism, danger and financial/legal disaster ...

Hell, kiddo, I haven't the faintest idea what to suggest, unless it would be that you make a thorough and exhaustive search, aided and vetted by a good entertainment rights attorney, of who the invested owners of the original property might be, and approach them in a businesslike way, proposing your revamp. And with a proper business plan in hand, offer to revivify their dormant show, recast in your mold. Then pray for luck to strike like logic and lightning.

Beyond that fragile suggestion, I blanch even to wander woolgatheringly near the potential blast-site.

Better than that, i got nothin'.

Harlan Ellison

Old Question with a new twist
Dear Unca Harlan (and whoever else has 2¢ to contribute):

I've got an old question, one that you've probably answered a thousand times, at least. It's got an extra twist though, that makes it even harder.

The question is basically the tried and true "How do I break into writing" one. The problem is that I have additionally handicapped myself by writing something based on a pre-existing work. Yes, I know. Not the smartest move one could make. But it's something I began for personal amusement, with no thought of ever doing anything with it. It tapped into (what I consider to be) a major creative wellspring, and grew to enormous proportions.

To visualize what this project is, imagine a photonovel version of Woody Allen's "What's Up, Tiger Lily?". I've taken an old, long-dead show, built a series of photo storyboards, and rewritten it from the ground up as a comedy, around them. The end result is sort of like a text-heavy comic book with photos instead of drawings. Sort of like a parody, but with none of the names changed to protect the guilty.

As you can imagine, such a thing is absolutely impossible to use without the permission of the original copyright holder. My question is, basically, is there a ghost of a chance of ever getting such permission for a thing like that, especially when one has no previous name recognition value to work from? If my name was Stephen King (or Harlan Ellison), I'm sure it would be easy, but being nobody makes it a bit harder.

This is assuming that I have something worth publishing. I'm sure everyone who asks you this question believes they've got the greatest thing since sliced bread, and most are wrong. But IF, just "if" mind you, I had something that was at all publishable, would there be any chance here, or are the odds too long?

A few people, having seen parts of it, have made the not-so-helpful suggestion that it's great, and therefore I should chuck it and start fresh with something that's my entirely my own property. That might be good, but this has gone too far just to toss it in the fire and go back to Square 1. Besides, this, and not something else, has been what's motivated me to write and write and write. The subject matter is (in my opinion) an inexhaustible gold mine of unintentional humor.

But trying to do something ain't easy. It's hard to approach a copyright holder without an agent, and agents are so busy that they really aren't interested in representing someone who doesn't even completely own his own project (yes, I have tried). Catch-22. The most I've achieved is somebody who knows somebody who works for the copyright holder, who's told me 3rd hand that they *might* have some interest a couple of years down the line, after they get their DVD's released. I have not, as yet, quit my day job to pursue this lead.

What I want to know is if there's more than a pipe dream, or if I'm an idiot to even think of doing anything here. I figure that if I'm an idiot, you're the one person I can trust to tell me so without varnishing it.

"...Or, simply, he's a dickhead."

Now THAT'S what I call a resolution!

Truly Talking Like a Pirate
Look here, you Rogues,

There ain't nothin' I like less than to hear a man put it that he can talk like a pirate when he's only blowin' sails.

I'm sure if you talk Mr. Ellison over, he'll tell you how to speak pirate, as like as not. But for me, you're talkin' all fancy like, and you'd never be let into the brotherhood.

No more a this or I'll clear the world of you.

Captain Steve

PHILIP ROTH AND ALTERNATE HISTORY

Oh, how lucky you munchkins are to know me, wonderful icon that I am; traveler in rarefied circles that I am; hobber&knobber with the vastly famous I am.

Philip Roth is, as has been said, a fine fine often excellent and important American author. But like many another of that rare ilk, as he has grown older, parts of his manner have stowed themselves deep in amber. And in the case of Mr. Roth, his deep and abiding sense that he alone rocks in the sanctified cradle of the universe expresses itself in a dickhead-like statement that he had no literary templates to work from re: his new book.

In this matter, Philip Roth's arrogance proclaims him a dickhead.

How do I know this?

Because I happen to know first-hand that Mr. Roth was aware of "alternate history" fiction less than forty, but more than thirty-three, years ago.

How do I know this?

Because Philip Roth sat with me and Kurt Vonnegut in the lobby lounge of the Copley Plaza in Boston, sometime in the early- to mid-Seventies, eating a New England brekfast, as he and I had a lively discussion of many things (being that two of us were lecturing intown and one of us was on a long book publicity tour)including James Thurber's most wonderful short story, "If Grant Had Been Drinking at Appomatox," a famous alternate history story that even preceded Ward Moore's BRING THE JUBILEE.

Mr. Roth is full of shit. Not only could he have had a plethora of source templates he apparently is ignorant of -- which is unforgiveable -- but he most assuredly DID have such a salient reference, because I was there when he became effulgent over precisely such a piece of work.

Either Philip Roth, like James Cameron, cannot bear to admit that the universe was populated and plowed well, before he got here, or he's getting senile.

Or, simply, he's a dickhead.

Charmingly, Yr. pal, Harlan

Talk like a pirate Day. . .
Talkin' like the pirates, eh? Aaargh. And I missed this 'ere boat. Alas, there be not much talkin' that day, as I took it to mean "Drink like a Pirate day" and downed a bottle 'o the Good Captain Morgan's finest o'er a game of Trivial Persuit with my ol' father and mother.

Methinks this Roth fellow need get his stories straight, as the re-telling of the past in said speculative fashion is a tradition as old as the Jolly Roger, the fat bastard Churchill 'imself having done it, concerning war in the Americas. . .

Dorman's complaint

"THE DANGER OF UNINFORMED OPINIONS"

I know this is a riff off a clever quote from our patron, but it's too often been used around here as a door-slamming way to end discussion by telling someone who disagrees with you that they don't know what they're talking about.

In other words, it's weak, patronizing (a pun, dudes), and causes this reader to immediately side with the accused.

As far as Roth goes, yeah, he's a name, but before I start putting him on my shelf, as recommended by DTS, there's about 200+ other writers who will get the nod first. And that's not counting poets and playwrights.

Matthew Davis wrote:

“There have been various illustrated copies of LORD OF THE RINGS, though whether you class that as adult or not I leave to others.”

As far as Tolkien is concerned, a good place to start sampling the opinions of others would be Shippey’s ‘JRR Tolkien: Author of the Century’. It’s a book length thesis with an Oxford pedigree, suggesting that you can use elves, glowing blue swords and talking eagles in your stories and still be writing for adults.

Hell, Ellison wrote about gnomes, unicorns and goblins; Orwell wrote about talking pigs; Swift wrote about hyper-rational horsies and Lilliputian humanoids no bigger than your thumb. Vonnegut utilizes felt pen sphincters and small brained de-evolutionized watermen to express his themes.

Just recently, I read my seven year old Sophie the illustrated coffee table version of ‘Repent Harlequin …’.

Afterward I asked her what it was about and she replied,
‘Sometimes thoughts become dreams, and sometimes dreams become true.
Then they might catch you anyway, and you’ve gotta hope it was all worth it.’

Her answer surprised me, as I was expecting a comment on the jelly beans.

Re: Paypal KICK
To: E.S. JARRETT. Thank you.

HARLAN: Many thanks for your _The Seven Who Fled_ recommendation. A truly wonderful book.

Mark

ADVISEMENT TO TONY RABIG:

Signed CHILDREN OF THE STREETS hardcover, fresh off the Edgeworks Abbey/Severn House presses, went out to you today, first class US post, signature required. Thanks again, Tony. In true...this book wouldn't have come back into print, after 50 years, nearly as effortlessly, had it not been for your good offices. My gratitude.

Yr. pal, Harlan

Jon Stover: Illustrated non-children’s books:
Foremost several books by Mervyn Peake were self-illustrated - all of the “Gormenghast“, and I can’t remember if “Mr Pye” does.

The wonderful cartoonist and humorist Willie (Willy) / William Rushton published several novels all of which were heavily illustrated by him: DAY OF THE GROCER (a satire on then PM Edward Heath), SPY THATCHER, and W.G GRACE’S LAST CASE (an after the War of the World’s novel, with cameos from numerous fictional and historical characters - this back in the mid-70s when Mr Alan Moore was just one more unemployable hippy-type).

Alex Garland (of THE BEACH fame) has just published a short novel/ novella THE COMA, illustrated by his father, the cartoonist Nicholas Garland

Will Self published a short novel /novella THE SWEET SMELL OF PSYCHOSIS which I’m pretty sure was illustrated by the cartoonist Martin Rowson.

Angus Wilson wrote FOR WHOM THE CLOCHE TOLLS, which was illustrated, but I can’t remember if it was a novel, or merely a historical reminiscence

Evelyn Waugh, illustrated some of his early novels, certainly BLACK MISCHIEF and his SF short story “Love among the Ruins”

Maybe not quite what you want, but Posy Simmonds wrote a “graphic novel” GEMMA BOVERY

Iain Sinclair did something?? with Dave Mckean called SLOW CHOCOLATE AUTOPSY

There have been various illustrated copies of LORD OF THE RINGS, though whether you class that as adult or not I leave to others.

Lord Dunsany had some of his collections of stories illustrated by Sidney Simes.

Some of Clive Barker’s books come with illustrations and paintings by Barker.

Terry Pratchett wrote several SHORT novels ERIC and THE LAST HERO to be heavily illustrated.

And I shall probaly think of some more once I hit the post button.

Roth is no more wackier then what Newt Gingrich calls historical fiction. Roth should know better, but that is another story.

---------

Todd, Air America is coming to Phoenix. I know you wait with baited breath. lol.

-----------

Znet has a scary story about how torture and murder are being condoned in Afghanistan and Iraq. Shocking stuff:

http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?SectionID=40&ItemID=6264

Philip Roth
Roth's essay is open to the inference that he thinks "reimagining the historical past" in his new novel is something unprecedented. Maybe he didn't mean it that way but it's not a wild inference.

What I found most interesting about Roth"s essay is that he says he wanted to reimagine something "credible," something that "could easily have happened," something that wasn’t "far-fetched," and his premise is Lindbergh heading the Republican ticket and beating FDR in 1940. Leaving aside the question of how Lindbergh manages to beat Dewey, Taft, Vandenberg, Willkie, and then FDR, a "Lone Eagle" who fetters himself with a political party (not just a group like "America First")and then a political office already seems like Roth's Lindbergh, not history's Lindbergh. Which is OK, Roth can write about Truman as a burlesque comic if he wants to, but he must have done some serious writing to make that premise seem like something that could easily have happened. (Don't get me wrong, I’m not a Lindbergh fan. I have no dispute with Roth's description of Lindbergh’s isolationism or ethnocentrism.)

A confusion upon DTS, with whom I'm not impressed.

First of all, I fail to see any relevance between by comments on the word "endorsement" and my comments on the Roth essay-- unless you think that a) I was wrong there and b) that means my read of Roth's piece ain't worth a darn. That's quite the big conceptual leap there, DTS.

But you're a real bear for leaps, son, because my comments didn't attack Roth's writing at all. I faulted Roth for what I perceived as arrogance in his essay, an arrogance over what he saw as his own cleverness in coming up with an alternate-history scheme. I didn't comment on his novels, or his skill as a stylist, or even his prominence as one of our pre-eminent novelists. (Yes, I am aware of his reputation, despite your evident desire to see me as some uninformed lout.)

But please, DTS, devote a little thought to Roth's essay _without_ the blinders about his genius. Here's a novelist talking about how he had "no literary models for re-imagining the past," and going on at length about the degree of his research. Think about that for a moment. Here's one of America's best-respected novelists, a man we can presume is extremely well-read, with considerable social experience among other writers... and he regards his alternate-history novel as something _without_ a model.

Okay, maybe he doesn't read genre fiction, and maybe he's unaware of people like Dick, or Harry Turtledove, or any number of writers who've re-imagined the past since _Bring the Jubilee_ was published. Then one might fault Roth for literary parochialism, a sin of which many writers are guilty.

Then, consider the number of novelists who've done well-researched _historical_ novels, where the past is "re-imagined" to bring forth the sights, smells, thoughts and experiences of another time-- novelists like Gore Vidal or E.L. Doctorow, whom I'm sure Roth has heard of, at least. And is there so much of a leap from writing a historical novel to writing an alternate-historical novel? I don't think so.

And the _actual_ history of America in the 1930s has been fictionalized, reworked, and re-imagined so extensively that it's difficult to take Roth seriously when he claims a lack of literary models. There are novels that capture everydaylife at the time. There are novels about the events as they did happen. There are novels with changes to the history-- say, if Huey Long hadn't been assassinated. And all of these would easily serve as a "literary model" for an alternative history of the late 1930s and early 1940s.

None of this is any reflection on the quality of Roth's work. He may very well have accomplished a genuinely literary work of alternative history, a genre not exactly known for its high standards of style and insight. (Take William Fortschen.) But the guy is just patting himself on the back, in the pages of the _New York Times_, for something that ain't _that_ novel.

Keillor referencing Dante, Twain and Frankenstein
and thus I have to love it.

I have reservations on his rosey hued takes on Nixon and what I know of Ike's policies but his heart is in the right place.

- Barney

http://www.michaelmoore.com/words/index.php?id=163

As regards "Rough Beasts" - I part the misty curtains of time and space and slam the lever on the Way-Back machine to October 11, 1995. Our destination, Sherman, is the news archive of Webderland, to quote the proprietor, the esteemed and Saint-patienced Rick Wyatt:

"Rough Beasts, a collection of some of Harlan's earlier (and I mean earlier) work, will be coming out in the next few months as a chapbook from Roadkill Press."

Harlan's recent post details the "when" and "why" of the publication and its fate to date. As for the "what" of the contents, only Harlan knows for sure, and I'd wager when he's ready to ink the sundry details, he'll send up a flare with much rejoicing.

A couple of peps brought up ROugh Beasts. Am I completely wrong or wasn't Rough Beasts an older HE collection that sadly, for one reason or another, got killed years ago? I was under the impression that it was never going to see the light of day.

Harlan - I really really enjoyed your Justice League story you did for the J.S. tribute series. I also recently found a reprint of "Five Dooms To Save Tomorrow"; now one of my favourite Avengers yarns. Any plans for more comics? I also was kind of wondering why you never heavily got into the comic biz, like doing a full year's run on title. Just thinking outloud, but a Shadow maxi- or mini-series written by you would be the coolest. Thanks for the stories.

Avast, ye big brains
I've created (or am about to create, technically) a topic for this on the Other Board, so feel free to answer over there. However, as there a number of notably encyclopedic minds who tendd to stay over here, I thought I'd ask here as well:

A friend of mine has recently shifted her doctoral dissertation topic from an area she knows quite a bit about (illustrated British non-children's novels of the 19th century) to one she's still getting acquainted with (illustrated British non-children's novels of the 20th century).

After suggesting Neil Gaiman's Stardust to her, I ran into the brick wall of my own lack of knowledge. I could come up with terrific 20th-century American novels with illustrations (Barthelme and Moser's The King is a personal favourite, but I had tons of other examples as well) and I could come up with terrific British novels from previous centuries with terrific new illustrations (Moser's Frankenstein being one of these) and I could come up with tons of children's novels, but when it came to 20th century British novels with illustrations, I came up short. If only the question involved comic books or children's novels...

I've managed to pull up Googled suggestions from Walter de la Mare to some of the editions of Moorcock's Cornelius novels, but to make this increasingly laboured question shorter, can you think of any really striking British novels of the 20th century that weren't intended for children and that had interior illustrations?

If only Stephen King were British...

Cheers, Jon

ARRRRRRR!
Avast, ye scurvy-ridden seadogs! This Sunday been National Talk Like a Pirate Day! It's sad indeed to see that none of ye rat-eatin' skalawags have honored this here fine tradition.

It's enough to make a grog-swilling, hook-handed, one-eyed old salty scumbag like me shake me cutlass-scarred head and long to sink down to Davey Jone's locker.

Either that, or order a half-caff mocha latte' and a chocolate-chip scone.

I mean, ARRRRRR!!

Chuck

Um ...
First it must be said: The "Reset" button is evil. Evil; do you hear?

Ahem. Now that that's safely out of the way ...

RICK K. & ALL WHO HATE REGISTERING FOR WEBSITES: Remember, http://www.bugmenot.com is your friend.

DORMAN: I'm thinking you were overly harsh in your denunciation of Brian's post.
Little background here: I HAVE read a lot of Roth's work; I DO think him a major talent; and I HAVE been looking forward to THE PLOT AGAINST AMERICA ever since it was announced.

But I, too, read the essay, and on coming to the "I had no literary models ..." line, blurted out, "Huh?" It does not come off, upon first read, as "I _took_ no ..." or "I _followed_ no ..."
The tone of the essay could be said to be slightly self-congratulatory--and that's all right; Roth has written much for which congratulations are well in order.

But his feelings for his own uchronia, and his essay explaining them, DID strike me as somewhat disingenuous. The fact that he doesn't even mention THE MAN IN THE HIGH CASTLE is a surprise: The book is taught in schools and universities, and has been cited on a graeat many literary lists. Even Laura Miller, in the NYT Book Review two weeks or so back, compared Roth's book to Dick's.

But even leaving aside the science fiction books and stories which had and have touched on alternate histories a great deal (and it has to be asked: What voracious reader of a Jewish kid growing up in 1940s Newark WOULDN'T have read the stories and books of Leinster, de Camp, et alia?), the trope of alternate history in literature has a long and noble history, with literary luminaries such as Chesterton, Wells, Hawthorne, and many others, going back to a longpiece in the middle of Livy's History of Rome, written in the first century, positing a longer-lived Alexander the Great' attempt to invade Rome.
(and an ardent Anglophile such as Roth could hardly have missed the many pieces dealing with "what might have been" in Toynbee's acclaimed A STUDY IN HISTORY, or even Churchill's own pre-war touchings on the genre [I know Winston wrote a story where the Confederacy won Gettysburg and therefore the war (Paula, I'll see if I can track this one down for you, knowing of your interest in the period), and I believe he did a few other like pieces])

Or that Roth, who had to do a lot of research into Zionism as research for a couple earlier books, would not have referenced of Theodor Herzl's alternate history (really a parable) about Napoeon becoming an entrepreneur rather than a leader?

It's not that I think that Roth believes himself to have charted heretofore-undiscovered territory, but leaving these things out does seem a bit off.

And let's remember: You have the chance here to introduce Brian to the whole Roth canon; he has all this in front of him--for which you may even envy him--rather than tear him down in Philip's name, which may forever put him off reading stuff I happn to think he would enjoy.

Think of yourself as Galileo, and of Brian as Kepler; do not disdain him out of hand, do not "hold against [him] his rambling and free way of speaking," as Kepler pleaded of Galieo. Rather, lend him your telescope (as Galileo would not) and allow him to see. If those two had just worked together, how much higher would Newton have had to climb to "stand on the shoulders of giants"?
So, too, should it be with the two of you.
(Whether this makes Harlan Giordano Bruno or Plato is up to your own interpretation.)

(Yes; I DO read a lot of books on cosmology and the history of science; why do you ask?)


As for the book itself, I have to wonder why Roth would make Winchell into Lindbergh's political foil. Though it makes for a great tension--the antisemitic golden boy versus the brash and Jewish radio gossiper, all I've read of Winchell would indicate someone who never would have taken the stand of presidential candidacy. I hope that Roth touches upon the friendship of Winchell and J. Edgar Hoover; the correspondence between them--all 3000+ pages of which are available in several places on the internet--makes for interesting reading.

Me, I'm thinking Bernard Baruch would be a much likelier antagonist for Luftwaffe Lindy--but I have to admit that Winchell probably makes for a better literary contrast. And I'm very happy that he's touching on how the Jewish Mafia would react to a Coughlinized Lindbergh presidency.

As I say, I look forward to reading the book (and I have to admit some surprise that Roth makes his viewpoint character be young "Philip Roth" rather than a child Nathan Zuckerman).

One last thing: Roth has often said that this is not to be read as commentary on the current political fabric of the nation. I fear that this is a fate he cannot escape.

Jebus...I read comments like Dornan's and - even in my feeble, witless and narrow view of a universe he has obviously mastered - must draw from the shallow pond of my intellect and world experience and recall the words of 14 year old Dustin Walsh who, when confronted with the rant of an angry Yu-gi-Oh card player once proclaimed:

"Someone really needs to get laid and chill the fuck out."

Reading Comprehension
DTS,

I haven’t let anyone do my thinking for me. Perhaps you missed the fact that I said IF Roth thinks he invented the alternate history novel he needs to do more reading himself. The word IF is a conditional term, applied only under specific circumstances. The obvious flip side of that statement is that if Roth does not think this, then there’s no need for him to do more reading.

I also specifically said I was unable to read the entire NY Times article (I wasn’t going to register with them just to be able to see the rest of the article), so I don’t know what Roth may or may not have said. That’s right, contrary to the conclusions you appear to have drawn about my letting others think for me, I went to the source Brian Siano cited to see for myself what Roth had to say. I didn’t accept Siano’s word as Gospel.

I then discussed alternate history in general, as a comparison/contrast to Siano’s suggestion that _It Can’t Happen Here_ fits that category. I only addressed Roth again to point out that his novel, like Bernau’s two, appears not to have been classified as science fiction; and to say that I wouldn’t be able to speak to the quality of his novel until or unless I read it.

So, once again, I simply said that IF Roth believed he had invented the alternate history novel he needed to read more. I never said that he DID say this, and specifically went to the NY Times article to try to find out exactly what he did say, in context. But I’m not about to jump through the Times’ hoops just to read the whole thing (and that applies to any article).

It’s too bad they threw up that roadblock, because I did want to read the entire article.

At any rate, I trust I’ve cleared up some of your misconceptions.

Be seeing you.

Rick

ON PHILIP ROTH and THE DANGER OF UNINFORMED OPINIONS
BRIAN SIANO & RICK K: Siano, your penchant for completely misinterpreting the written word has been well-documented right here in Webderland (revisit your dust-up with Harlan over whether he was endorsing something or other not long ago); so I'm not surprised that you'd do the same with Philip Roth's fine essay. I AM surprised that -- apparently -- having read very little (if any) of the guy's work you lay into his writing on the basis of what seems to have been a speed-read of an essay explaining a novel. And all over the line in which Roth writes: "I had no literary models for reimagining the historical past." Oy! Roth doesn't say he's inventing Alternative (or alternate, if you prefer) history novels. Roth doesn't claim he invented the wheel. He doesn't, as you intimate, give the impression that he believes he is writing something unprecedented. He merely states that he didn't have anything to reference when writing this novel. Probably because he never took the time to read terrific books like THE MAN IN THE HIGH CASTLE by Philip K. Dick (among others). (That's a short coming of his own that he needs to address). Despite that, his novel, THE PLOT AGAINST AMERICA, is still a very fine book. And I hope your misguided railing hasn't turned anyone off from checking it out. And, yes, to answer your almost-asked question, Roth _is_ a major talent. Among his many works: GOODBYE, COLUMBUS; PORTNOY'S COMPLAINT, the Zuckerman novels (THE GHOST WRITER, ZUCKERMAN UNBOUND, etc); PATRIMONY (winner of a National Book Critic's Award); OPERATION SHYLOCK (winner of the Pen/Faulkner Award); SABBATH'S THEATER (winner of a National Book Award) the 1998 Pulitzer prize winner, AMERICAN PASTORAL; THE HUMAN STAIN.
Any lover of literature should have at least a few books by Roth in his or her library; and his name _should_ be familiar. But as Harlan has pointed out, for too many people nostalgia is yesterday's breakfast and history is last week's top ten film list.
Pay attention, Siano; Pay attention. Life's too short to do otherwise. (And remember: everyone's entitled to an opinion -- as long as it's an _informed_ opinion).

RICK K: _Never_ let someone else do your reading and thinking for you. That's _precisely_ why half -- or more -- of the electorate in this country remain blissfully ignornant and uncaring -- because someone else (talking heads on a certain cable network, no doubt) told them what to think, and why they should be happy (or unhappy). Kudos for setting Siano straight on the Sinclair Lewis; but you lose points for putting one leg on his piss on Roth, blind as a drunk skunk bandwagon. So you're back where you started. I suggest healthy diet of Roth novels in the months to come.
--DTS
(By the way, Rick Wyatt: I'll absent myself for a week for this; knowing people have abused this "emergency privlege" -- and knowing I'm doing so now -- if you think I should pay a higher price, I'll respect your wishes; I just couldn't let the literary crime of air-headed criticism below, pass blithely along for another 24 hours without redress).

Of Gods and Monsters
Rob:

No one's denying the acting prowess of Boris Karloff. So why not give him lines? The monster had plenty of good lines!

Not that it matters. I did rather like the films, faithful or not. Just they were. . .nevermind.

"The Body Snatcher" was marvelous.

Just picked up an eight pack DVD collection, with:

" The Phanotom Creeps"
" The Invisible Ghost"
" House on Haunted Hill"
" Unnatural"
" The Indestructible Man"
" The Last Man on Earth"
" Nightmare Castle"
" The Human Monster"

All for $24 - Canadian!

I haven’t read much of Roth, if anything (I read so much it’s hard to keep track sometimes) either, but I’ve gotta agree that if he thinks he invented the alternative history novel, he needs to do some more reading himself (I wasn’t able to read the entire NY Times article, so I don’t know exactly what he said or how he said it). I don’t know if _It Can’t Happen Here_ can be considered alternate history, however, since, as I recall, it postulates a then-future development; but about 20 years ago, there was a novel called _Promises to Keep_ by George Bernau. In it, U.S. President Jack Cassidy is shot in Dallas on Nov. 22, 1963…

And survives.

That is definitely alternate history. Bernau just changed the names, but it’s clear he’s asking “what if Kennedy had survived Dallas?”


Bernau later wrote _Candle in the Wind_, about a famous movie star who also survived a near fatal incident.

And, of course, we haven’t even touched on the various alternate history novels and short stories in the science fiction field. John Brunner’s _Times Without Number_ comes to mind (I hope I’m remembering the right title). It postulates a history in which the Spanish Armada was not defeated in 1588.

Some of Poul Anderson’s “Time Patrol” stories dealt with alternate histories through some time traveler’s actions (intentional or otherwise) in changing what had been historically “correct” prior to that point.

I was actually lucky enough to have a brief interview with Poul Anderson about eight or 10 years ago, and one of the things that came up was the curious fact that not all books dealing with alternate history, an obvious science fiction concept, are published, marketed and sold as science fiction.

Bernau’s novel weren’t and I get the impression Roth’s isn’t either. As to Roth’s book, it might be brilliant; it might be crap. I’d have to read it to find out.

Finally, speaking of saving JFK, many years ago, I happened to catch an episode of _Red Dwarf_ (actually came in toward the middle), where Lister, et al. had somehow gone back in time to Dallas, and had accidentally thwarted Oswald. Kennedy survived, and was elected to a second term, but subsequently impeached, tried, convicted and headed to jail three years later as a result of certain revelations about his relationship to organized crime. On top of that, the travelers’ spaceship no longer existed (nor does the future they hailed from), so they go back to Dallas again, and try to get Oswald to fire from the sixth floor, so he won’t be interrupted by their original arrival. But this time Oswald’s aim is off, and Kennedy is again only wounded.

Having run out of floors from which they can have Oswald fire the fatal shot, Lister goes aboard the prison van in 1966 and tells JFK how wrong things are in this timeline. There’s only one way to set things right…

Three years earlier, as Kennedy’s motorcade drives through Dealey Plaza, shots ring out. Some from Oswald in the Schoolbook depository; the others from a “policeman” on the “grassy knoll.” The foul deed done, the policeman turns to face the camera, and we see in the moments before he fades from existence, that the assassin is Kennedy himself.

Rick

Speaking of Time Travel
Ever hear of Time Wave Zero? It’s a postulation that instances of novelty stop on or about 12-21-2012. This coincides with the ending of the Mayan calendar. A theory is that time becomes irrelevant at this point...possibly due to the creation of an actual time machine at which point time becomes "circular" instead of linear. No one could travel back to before this date, as "you can’t drive where there are no roads"
I know this theory came from a man who ingested much acid and magic mushrooms but a theory is a theory.

THE EYEBALLS OF CHRIST

Recently, I did some cursory research on the beginnings of Anime for something I’m putting together.

I rented episodes from the 3 first Anime cartoons ever - Astro Boy, Gigantor, and 8th Man (the one I liked most). I did some preliminary reading on them and found some extraordinary details. When these shows were imported to the U.S., many episodes were inevitably left in Japan. An Astro Boy episode, entitled, ‘The Eyeballs of Christ’, was about secret messages scratched on the eyeballs of a statue of Christ; in another, a criminal had this great bachelor pad with walls very noticeably covered with nude chicks; and in yet another, one I’m GLAD wasn’t imported, a scientist vivisects dogs in his research work.

And the Gigantor origin episode would never be aired here either: the giant robot was designed by two scientists as the ultimate weapon for Japan…against the U.S. and the allies in WWII! The series creator, a feller named Yokoyama, had a very big chip on his shoulder against the West, which goes on to the present day, because he’d lost relatives in Hiroshima.

This was all part of standard kiddie fare in Japan, but the U.S. sponsorship was determined to protect the American public. I would find them fascinating to watch. (That aside, silly and monotonous as most of the episodes were - I really couldn’t watch them for too long - I liked the b&w, the sound effects, and the scoring a lot, which were all quite visceral. The Japanese infused some of these things with a nice sense of drama. I think Disney’s ‘Lion King’ owes much to Kimba - another early import)

Dunno if I'm breaking the twice-a-day rule, since a) my last post was after midnight last night, but b) I did sleep for more than eight hours between posts, so it _feels_ like the next day. (And what a lovely day it is here in Philly. Cool, brilliant blue skies, nice breezes. Wonderful.)

Two points to address. The first is about that miniature time machine in _The Time Machine_. When I read that passage, when I was maybe ten or so, my first question was "How did he _test_ the thing in the first place?" He sends the thing into the future. So did he ever get it back?

And here's another thought I remember having at the time. If you send an object forward into the future, it would exist in all future points of time. Wouldn't it be continually visible to others in "real time?" Wouldn't we see a contraption bearing Rod Taylor in the same space all the time, visible, but not really tangible? And wouldn't this hold for objects travelling backwards in time?

And this leads to another fun thought. When we think of time travel, it's usually accompanied by the desire to change history-- kill Hitler, save JFK, _occasionally_ wanting to save MLK (which gives y'all an idea of our priorities as a nation). Wouldn't time travellers from the future have done this already? Or... what if they _caused_ these events to give us the _incentive_ to build one?

I read the Philip Roth essay. I've read very little Roth, so I may be ignorantly pissing on a major talent when I say this, but... I had the feeling that he was patting himself on the back for inventing a new literary form, the _alternative-history novel_. He writes that "I had no literary models for reimagining the historical past. I was familiar with books that imagined a historical future, notably ''1984,'' but much as I admire ''1984,'' I didn't bother to reread it. In ''1984'' -- written in 1948 and published a year later -- Orwell presupposes a gigantic historical catastrophe that renders his world unrecognizable." And later, he writes " Orwell imagined a huge change in the future with horrendous consequences for everyone; I tried to imagine a small change in the past with horrendous consequences for a relative few. He imagined a dystopia, I imagined a uchronia."

That's nice, Phil; and while I don't think Harry Turtledove is much of a writer, he has plowed this particular field many, many times before. (For that matter, so has Newt Gingrich. I wonder which one the _Times_ will hire to review Roth's book?) And while Roth may feel his work is doing something without precedent, he must surely be aware of Sinclair Lewis's novel _It Can't Happen Here_, which depicts the rise of a nativist-Fascist government in the United States, complete with analogues to Charles Lindbergh, Huey Long and Father Charles Coughlin.

REALLY TERRIFIC READS
ALL: Appropos of nothing that comes before, just wanted to share the titles of some REALLY terrific, recent (or forthcoming) books:
JONATHAN STRANGE & MR. NORRELL (it's a bit long in spots, but still a lot of fun); THE DARK TOWER VII: THE DARK TOWER (like his last two "Tower" novels, this one is a fast-paced and wild ride -- King's writing has definitely improved in the past 4 years); A SOUND LIKE SOMEONE TRYING NOT TO MAKE A SOUND (this is a children's book by John Irving -- illustrated even -- but damned if it doesn't slip over into the realm of fantasy in the storytelling; Irving does an incredible job and the illustrator, Tatjana Hauptmann, adds some brilliant, accompanying artwork; THE PLOT AGAINST AMERICA (Philip Roth takes on alternate history -- the plot involves President Charles Lindbergh and an administration that slowly erodes America's freedoms -- it comes out early next month -- check out his essay about writing it at the link below); INCUBUS DREAMS (okay, this one rambles a bit sometimes, but if any of you out there like erotic fiction, Hamilton's last three or four books -- including this one -- in her "Anita Blake, Vampire Hunter series," will have you tugging at your collars and reaching for a glass of water -- and the explorations of how deep love really runs -- using shapeshifters and such to double for human flaws --is handled quite nicely; IN THE NIGHT ROOM (Peter Straub has been a man on literary fire the past six or seven years -- before that, he was in a lull, being merely veerrrry good -- and along with last years "lost boy lost girl" this new book seems to be channeling Robert Aickman and HP Lovecraft -- it's brilliant; WOLVES EAT DOGS (doesn't come out until November, but it's a new Martin Cruz Smith book, the fifth in his Arkady Renko series, and as such it is excellent -- in my humble opinion, Smith is one of the finest mystery writers alive); A HANDBOOK OF AMERICAN PRAYER (Lucius Shepard is another guy who seems to have found a second -- or perhaps third -- wind to push his literary sails -- this one is out in Nov., too, and as with the recent LIAR'S HOUSE and forthcoming VIATOR, Shepard almost seems to be using some sort of jazz instrument to lay down his words -- there's lots of entertaining storytelling going on, too -- just a lot of wild and evocative prose surrounding the plots).
--DTS (the link to Roth's essay follows)

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/09/19/books/review/19ROTHL.html

DOH! The title of my message should've read:

Magic in "The Time Machine"

I don't know why things with quotes get truncated in the subject header, but I'll try to remember that in the future.

-- Jon

Magic in

Brian,

FWIW, the title seems to be "Hiding the Elephant" (just checked it on Amazon, at http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0786712260/qid=1095600554/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i1_xgl14/104-5349945-2882337?v=glance&s=books&n=507846). Regardless, it sounds like a fascinating book!

And, speaking of this book... A friend of mine (also named Brian) is a huge fan of magic, and "historical magic" tricks. He's also a big H.G. Wells fan, and has collected many different editions of "The Time Machine" (his favorite Wells S/F book.)

Anyway, a few years ago, he pointed out a detail about the book that has bothered me ever since. In the opening chapter of "The Time Machine," the Traveler brings out a working scale model of the machine and proceeds to demonstrate it to his dinner guests, including the narrator. If you go back and re-read that passage, the narrator says, "I was absolutely certain there was no trickery..." -- yet, when the small device vanishes, there's a puff of wind, a candle blows out, and Wells describes the Traveler as immediately getting up, going to the fireplace, his back to his guests, fiddling with something there, and then turning around and returning (with a glass of port or a cigar; I don't have a copy book right in front of me at the moment.)

Anyway, Brian noted, "doesn't this read almost exactly like the description of a magic trick? Why would Wells both point out that the narrator was positive that it 'wasn't a trick,' yet the Traveler behaves as if he were, indeed, a magician 'finishing' the illusion?"

Now, I don't subscribe to the notion that the entire story in "The Time Machine" was intended to be false (note the scars on the Traveler's knuckles, and the flowers in his jacket pocket), but it is intriguing that Wells (possibly) laid an early clue to suggest to readers that the Traveler's narrative may, indeed, be "unreliable."

-- Jon

Sky Captain and the World of Tomorrow
MANY many others will have already torn this one a new asshole by now so I will be contrarian and say I liked it as a once through because I spent the entire film spotting the lifts from other films - and book covers - and comics - and radio shows - and cartoons. And wanting to touch Paltrow's hair. Don't ask.

Off the top of my head, the Fleisher Superman cartoons [damn near all of them], Lost Horizon, Wings, Sky King, Doc Savage, The Shadow, Terry and the Pirates, G-8 and his Battle Aces, King Kong, Godzilla, The Wizard of OZ [not the clip insert, something else], 5 or 6 Fritz Lang films, Triumph of the Will,
Postman Always Rings Twice, 2 Bond films, all 3 Indiana Jones films [yes, he is referencing secondary as well as primary sources] Michael Moorcock, Bruce Talbot, Warren Ellis, The Front Page, The Lost World, Tarzan, Things to Come, The silent and sound versions of the Thief of Bagdhad, The Black Rose, oh sweet jeebus and on and on and on.

It's a failure and a mess but a GLORIOUS mess and the obvious
question is, did he get this out of his system and is there a more focused use of this talent ahead or was this a one trick pony like Buckaroo Bonzai turned out to be.

However flawed this is, this is the guy who can make THE Doc
Savage movie. This may, in fact, be his resume for that job.

- Barney Dannelke

Le Chapeau
Looked at Barney's pictures, and whoa, in general. Very interesting. Check out that hat that HE is wearing in that one picture with the denim shirt. Is it a plaid cap? Very nice. I like it. I wish someone would compile a picture book of Harlan's sartorial fabulousness, starting with that picture on the dust jacket of Ellison Wonderland.

Thumbs up,
PAB

It's2 in the morning now, and I'm out on my front porch enjoying the cool, uncharacteristically un-humid night. Y'see, about half an hour ago, there was one of those cute alteractions that happens when college students and ethanol mix. I heard a commotion outside. I look out my window, and there's a horde of students milling about in front of a house across the street. One bunch was striding away manfully, shouting calls of glory like "Fuck you!" and "Get fucked!" while another horde was shouting something equally witty. The remaining horde splits up, leaving one girl out front shrieking, and as they're hauling her into the house for comfort and/or damage control, I shout out "Want me to call an ambulance?" They say no, everyting's OK...

But about ten minutes later, the cops come, check in, and now everything's quiet _except_ for the girl's wailing, which I can hear from across the street and through the brick walls of their house. I figured, nice night, something else might happen which may require an adult, so I'll come out on the porch with a glass of wine and my laptop.

Re unfinished or incompleted works. I just watched a DVD of Orson Welles's _Mr. Arkadin_ tonight. Terrible, faded print, shitty postsynced sound, and it was actually kinda nice to feel as though i was watching a late-night local station's movie, or a 16mm print at a revival theater. But this film has about four different versions, and I, for one, would love it if someone cleaned them up and made'em all available in one nice package. Maybe the different versions, and a really spruced-up 'final cut.' Dunno what Orson would've wanted-- I mean, beyond "a chance to direct again." But it's amazing what he pulled off with the scraps he had to work with.

Book of the Week is "Vanishing the Elephant" by Jim Steinmeyer. It's a lovely, loving history of how magical illusions developed from the Victorian era to the early 20th century. Yes, he does explain how many illusions are accomplished-- hell, anyone can learn that stuff by buying magic texts, and now there's the Internet, Despoiler of Mysteries. I especially enjoyed how Steinmeyer begins with an account of Houdini vanishing an elephant at the Hippodrome. Then he explains why Houdini was considered to be a _terrible_ magician. Thereupon we get a lengthy discussion of large-scale illusions that circles back into the vanishing of both Donkeys and Elephants, and how the secret behind _both_ of these was thought to have been _lost_... until Steinmeyer and associates managed to work it out.

One wonderful bit of Consulting Detectivism. At one point, Steinmeyer describes the vanishing donkey trick to a friend who also designs illusions. He mentions that a clown leads the donkey into the cage, and after the donkey vanishes, the clown jumps into the cage to show it's empty. The friend then says, "There are two clowns." Why? The fact that the man was a _clown_, in _clown makeup_, when he didn't have to be, suggests... something. Perhaps... the clown that went in is not the clown who came out?

God, doncha _love_ bits like that?

Hey Barney, some pretty nice shots there. It will be nice to have names by them to remember all the new folks I met. The unpacking process continues. I found the box today with my vcr tapes and another with some of my comics and B5 magazines so making some headway. I really like the condo, and it is much closer to work. Harlan you mentioned at the afternoon serenade by you and Peter David that this could be your last time to DragonCon. Is there a chance you might make a return to Comicon in Chicago next year with a new issue of Dream Corridor coming out or a return to the convention in Wsconsin? It would be awesome to have you here in the midwest again.Thanks,Roger

Barney and Da Photos
Barney,

Great photos - any chance you will be putting labels to identify our fellow webdys?

Yes...dear god no, I won't ever use that word again. Blame the Naproxin.

Contrary to how I appear in Barney's photo, I am not a lush. Usually. But they were selling beer in the lobby, it was past noon, I was on vacation ....

Actually, I am simply unphotogenic (or, if you prefer, cursed), and I broke my cardinal rule, which is: Never show teeth!

Some nice shots, though, Barn. You did make the rounds. Next year, I'm going as you.

D.

BARNEY'S PHOTO ALBUM
BARnEY: Personally, I thought the S&M girls looked pretty friendly. And speaking _strictly_ from an artistic perspective,
I think the photograph of Supergirl and Wonderwoman calls for more of a vertical angle; horizontal doesn't quite do them full justice (no pun intended). Artistically, speaking, of course. (Didn't you say something about listing their names and numbers, too)?
--DTS

"It's Barney's fault!!" (smiley face)

Harlan: I first heard about "Bring On..." from a pal who heard you lecture somewhere in the early 80's (maybe late 70's) where you read a portion of it. He told me about it and said the title had something about "Dancing Frogs," and that it was some of the best Ellison he'd heard. I remember reading later references about the story, but until Barney's post I hadn't thought about it for years.

"Bring On the Dancing Frogs" is definitely superior to "Send In the Dancing Frogs." The latter title creates images of some Streisand/Collins mutation warbling a maudlin ballad on a banal tv variety show.

It's

BRING ON THE DANCING FROGS

not

"Send in" the dancing frogs.

Dagnabbit, I work hard on these memorable titles...wouldja kindly mind remembering correctly?!!?

And, no, it isn't in ROUGH BEASTS, which is an entirely other, different kettle of eels, as though who actually KNOW about this book can advise the rest of you johnny-come-latelies before you generate yet another of those ill-informed internet rumors and guessing games, resulting in the spread of even more inaccuracy and misinformation.

Yr. pal, Harlan

Yo Barn E. Yo!
Just checked into your "photo album." Careful my brother. You may find yourself popping up on some less savory sites. Hmm I can see it now, "Barn E. D. The S&M Years." Got kind of a ring doesn't it? On your feet or on yor knees naughty, dirty Barney.
Your own personal cult is on its way! All my love, Tim

*boo hoo* I've wanted to read SEND IN THE DANCING FROGS for over twenty years. Maybe it's part of the table of contents for ROUGH BEASTS...

Of (possible) interest to Ellison fans

As an aside, I've never seen Barney sweat like this. Barney! You're bigger than Harlan. Don't be afraid. (Unless he pulls out one of those sharp WORDS of his, then all bets are off.)

I subscribe to the free version of Randy Cassingham's "This is True" e-mail newsletter, and he's got this feature called the Bonzer Site of the Week. This week it is the Degree Confluence Project, which states: "The goal of the Project is to visit each of the latitude and longitude integer degree intersections in the world, and to take pictures at each location. The pictures, along with a narrative describing the adventures it took to get there, are then posted on the site. This creates an organized sampling of the world. Another goal is to document the changes at these locations over time. We've excluded confluences in the oceans and dropped some near the poles, but there are still 12,754 to be found. You're invited to help."

The website is http://www.confluence.org/

-Keith Have-a-great-weekend Cramer

1st strike missile defense shield activated...
I just switched my photo gallery from public to private in case there was a problem with the photos.

And if it's the "handling Harlan's papers", well, that was just intellectual noodling and not presumption and I think we all know that. Is that still Silverberg's job? Or was it transferred to Susan? And what would Silverberg have done with his works if the table were reversed?

Ugly thoughts for post hurricane weather. Sorry for the double post Rick. I'm just covering my bases.

- Barney

Raininglikeabastardtown, PA.

Oh crap, now what did I do...
Harlan - it's 8:30AM here / 5:30AM there. I'll call 8AM YOUR time unless you see this and want to tap me earlier. Everybody is up here. - B.

BARNEY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Call me A S A P !

he

Odds and sods

Harlan's papers - This is one of those things you could spend months on. If there's a ms. of SEND IN THE DANCING FROGS on Harlan's desk and it's 2 pages long and stops in the middle of a sentence - well, I would certainly respect Harlan's wishes. On the other hand, if there is a approximate word count on the title page and he has underlined 3 lines, written one question to himself in the margins and left a character name with a question mark next to it - I would lobby to not toss that in the shredder on the strength of the argument that he has committed more extreme revisions than that to already published works. There is [for me] SOME SMALL wriggle room.

Authors intentions are extremely dicey. I think if I came across "Objects in the mirror..." and read it cold with no other information I might have thought it was almost done instead of done. It's tough. Walter Miller handed off his Canticle sequel to Terry Bisson after something like 30 years of fiddling. Was this the right call? He made it, so presumably it has to be. But if Miller had not done so, do we throw away that book which the author said was 95% done "and only required someone with a sense of humor" to finish it? I have no idea.

Then there is the infamous case of Twain's THE MYSTERIOUS STRANGER, which has 4 different ms. versions. There was Paine's bastardized "edit" of it, where he never told the public that what they were really getting was an amalgamation of the versions least likely to offend and filtered through his and Mark Twain's daughter Clara's Victorian sensibilities. Then there is an Oxford edition of 3 versions plus fragments. Then there is the California Press "definitive" version which incorporates most of the expunged Paine material but is hardly complete or coherant. And I've read all 5 versions now and as much as I understand the scholars slamming Paine, I'm not at all sure this mess was best preserved in ANY form. It's a window into the thought processes of Twain, sure, but it's also a window into Twain's lack of focus and loss of control over his own materials near the end. After the abbatoir of his final years nobody can blame him but it's textbook for how badly this whole process can play out "for the sake of posterity."

And I'm spent.

Below is a link to a website where I have posted a number of Dragon*Con photos. The public share doesn't seem to allow viewing of the 2 galleries that I pissed away the evening arranging things in. Also it doesn't seem to acknowledge re-titling. So if Rick want's to pull those 25 off there I'll provide him with titles. Or if somebody wants to recommend a better hosting platform - I've got about 200 photos and a pretty decent 3 minute clip of Harlan doing a duet with Peter David to put up. I'll try and get better at this. I would have my daughter do this but her PC is in the shop until Monday and I'm hammered for time.

http://www.villagephotos.com/pubbrowse.asp?selected=1011094

*** James *** Saw your question on the other board. Yes, something did indeed happen and it's all good but MANY MANY details must be worked out. Soon. Everybody is dancing as fast as they can so to speak. Also, did we "meet"? As in, "Hi, I'm James Palmer." Cause I don't have any webderland photos but that's no thang. It's just I met about 100 people that weekend and I'm blanking on this detail.

*** David *** Shoot me a link to that FOG OF WAR review and I will gladly read it. Neat.

*** Tim *** Call, you misanthrope.

- Barney

David:

What you are asking skirts close to what I'm sure you know is the intentional fallacy, the idea that one can surmise the author's intent from his words, personal history, etc. I'm sure you can find out a lot of interesting things by reading about the author through his letters, journals, (auto)biography, as well as his context in history and life. However, with the best literature, you should be able to get a rich, full understanding of the text without any of that. A different understanding from that of the person who has done the background research, but an equally valid one should come out of any careful reading of the text, no?

PAB

Hoping to balance my negative "Conan" comments (thank you, Rob) with something positive, I highly recommend M. John Harrison's new novel, LIGHT, the most innovative SF novel in years. It links a contemporary storyline to the most far-flung space opera, but it's the fluid, deceptively effortless writing style that will win you over.

WARNING
Hello, any who may or may not recall me. I've popped in here from time to time but mostly just lurk. But I make myself known now to send you a warning: Stay Away from SKY CAPTAIN AND THE WORLD OF TOMORROW. It is a limp attempt at the kind of 40s SF bang-whiz fun that most of us look back on with affection, but with none of the spark or vitality that made even the most boneheaded of those movies worth watching. It is a BORE, for the most part poorly acted and ill-conceived, pays no attention to common sense or logic, and just drags on for what seems like forever. If I can save even one person the pain of sitting through this dog, I'll feel I've done my good deed for the week.

Back to lurking, love to all,

Jason

Returning to the ol'litter box for a moment...
Y'know, MIKE, the beauty of it all is that that guy represents 45% of the American voters. Truly...those whose love of truth exceeds their love of power. Just makes you feel warm all over, doesn't it?

Steve Evil...

Karloff is one of the greatest things that ever happened to film.

There is the language of great literature and there is the language of film. They are structured differently and absorbed differently. Shelley’s ‘Modern Prometheus’ is timeless as literature. But cinematically, aided by James Whale’s quirky Expressionistic take on the material, Karloff was the undeniable master of mime and emotional range. No other filmed version has surpassed it, even though some are far more faithful to the book (yet, generally doing it far more disservice!). (The only other filmed versions I’ve ever liked were the poignant ‘Frankenstein: the True Story’ and Cushing’s amusingly decadent take in Hammer’s ‘Curse of Frankenstein’ – both of which took many of their own liberties, and neither of which remain as memorable or as cherished as Karloff’s)

Shelley’s book is a great reading experience. But Karloff wins the Gold in the viewer's event.

Now that you understand this, Steve, we can move on.

Other quick bits:

***...and, yes, it was Robert Shaw who wrote the ‘USS Indianapolis’ monologue in JAWS.

****I’m completely with John Thompson (I love your name!) re: the Conan flick. Flaccid, limp, and unmemorable.

*****I never saw a single 'Bradbury Theater' episode and I'm really going to have to do something about it.

******In closing, I have just chosen the beam in my apartment from which I will hang myself on Bush’s re-election day. Spectators are welcome. Bring your bags of peanuts (but do not litter the damn place)...

Lately, Kerry has been blurting out so many bone-headed remarks, missing every obvious opening concievable. That day he's at the Grand Canyon he goes: “I would have gone into Iraq EVEN if we hadn’t found weapons of mass destruction”. I saw his ace instantly float to the Canyon floor like a poor man’s fig leaf. That was the day he just about handed over the election. If anyone at all is advising him it must be a Republican MOLE. For chrissake, why, from the outset, didn’t he get James Carville and others from Clinton’s original election team?

Kerry is an intelligent, literate human being; but as a political strategist he sucks.

The Posthumous Question
David Loftus.

You might be on to a real intellectual tract here. Heaven forbid!

I wrote more than 500 words on this to respond to you, and now I summarize where my thinking went, sans disclaimers, exemplars, caveats, etc.:

I think you would be as close to knowing the dead artist by viewing the unpublished/unshown work and letters, as you are without them. People are infinitely complex. Therefore, I say let it be. Do not till the grave.

-Keith

>

That's almost verbatim what Rush Limbaugh said not too long ago on his radio program.

I haven't heard this line in over 40 years
Flying from Phoenix to Denver I got the opportunity to sit next to a Flaming Republican. This was a scary thing, and I will not bore you with the details of how he feels wars are justified when it ensures we get the oil and steel we need; or how, after downing his fifth drink during a one hour plus flight, he claimed Kerry was an alcoholic; or how, when it comes to the actions America takes, the God-damned French and God-damned Germans have nothing to do with it (it was all I could do to refrain from asking if he was still tracking that Bandit); and how – oh, wait, I wasn’t going to bore you…

He says to me, “I don’t know why people are so upset about the people dying in Iraq when more people than that die every day on our highways.”

The last time I heard a line like that was during the Vietnam War. I didn’t think I’d ever hear it again.

Mike

I emailed Air America about getting Harlan on one of their radio shows and they said that they have asked Harlan, but Harlan would not come on unless he got paid to appear. I have no idea if other radio stations pay for guests, but hoping Harlan will be on soon--paid, or not. Him and Al Franken would be a great entertainment.

-----------

When Harlan has trouble finding a publisher, I fear for the sanity of this republic.

Deep prayer on that one.


---------

I did see the Hulk movie, finally, and golly, the thing was pretty dang entertaining.

At least it was about something.

the writer's post-mortem control of his life and papers

I was trying to decide whether to spring this here or in the Forums. But I know we discussed this at some length in the past, to the point where Harlan issued his own statement on the subject, so I thought he might be interested, too.

As I think I mentioned, I've been reading Eileen Warburton's new bio of one of my favorite living authors, John Fowles (I did an undergraduate honors thesis on _The Magus_ which Fowles eventually saw and sent me a complimentary note about). He reportedly allowed the biographer complete access to his journals, letters, papers, and encouraged everyone who knew him to grant her interviews as well as talked to her extensively himself. The result is something clearly and refreshingly different from a normal authorized hagiography. Fowles does not come off looking really good in many instances as a young man (but then, few of us would, right? . . . that's part of the point).

I know we've discussed Max Brod's decision to violate his friend Franz Kafka's instruction to destroy all his writings after his death, and some of you probably recall how Sir Richard Burton's wife destroyed many of his papers, and Nietzsche's sister did much the same -- but I think in those cases we can offer an argument that the actions were not necessarily taken out of respect for the author's work or wishes).

Since Fowles is such a champion of free will and individual liberty, especially for the artist, and he has historically been something of a recluse, I was a bit nonplused by the following passage, which Warburton uses as the epigraph to the introduction of her book:


"The truth about any artist, however terrible, is better than the silence . . . . I know many writers fight fanatically to keep their published self separate from their private reality . . . . But I've always thought of that as something out of our social, time-serving side; not our true artistic ones. I don't see how the 'lies' we write and the 'lies' we live can or should be divided. They are seamless, one canvas, for me. While we live we can keep them apart, but not command the future to do the same. The outrage some Thomas Hardy fans have shown over all the revelations about the private man seems to me hypocritical in the extreme. They hugely enrich our understanding of him. . . . I have had to convince a number of friends and relatives that the kindest act to the [writer] is remembering them -- and that all art comes from a human being, not out of mysterious thin air."

-- John Fowles, letter to Jo Jones, Sept. 15, 1980; arguing for the preservation of John Collier's personal papers


So . . . what does everybody think?

DTS - If I can jump in on your Zone question - the skinny I've seen thus far came from here:

http://www.tvshowsondvd.com/newsitem.cfm?NewsID=2035

If accurate - and the site appears to do their homework with the studios - then "Crazy As..." should hit in the second set at the end of March.

"Rough Beasts" table of contents?

FOR JAMES:
CHILDREN OF THE STREETS is a collection of short stories, mainly about juvenile delinquents, not a novel.

Oops
Please disregard previous post -- it was TZ after all. Sorry.

--tr

Soup Sandwich & TZ DVD set
If memory serves (and I'm sure somebody will correct me eventually if I've got this wrong), "Crazy as a Soup Sandwich" was adapted not for TZ but for Tales from the Darkside, so it won't be on the TZ set.

--tr

QUICK QUESTION for HARLAN
HARLAN: Do you know if the folks at Image (or, perhaps, some other company) are going to issue the 1987 or 1988 version of "The Twilight Zone" on DVD? I recall seeing the adaptation of your screenplay "Crazy As a Soup Sandwich" and thinking they did a pretty good job. Best to Susan, and hope the writing is going well.
--Dorman

New Novel?
I recently read that "Children of the Streets" was available on Amazon U.K.. Anyone know the premise of this novel(?) by HE?

"Conan The Barbarian," while entertaining in spots, was a letdown, mainly because of the unnecessary changes Milius made. Robert E. Howard's stories are cinematic enough that a more faithful translation would have made a more imaginative, visceral film. Ah-nuld's portrayal of the mighty-thewed barbarian is not the literary Conan, who despite being a barbarian, was witty and had a cunning intelligence.

Let's not even mention Milius casting his surfer buddy Gerry Lopez as Subotai. Lopez's acting was so bad they dubbed his voice.

I never read too deeply into Conan. Sure, the Neitzchean undertones were all there, but they were just that: undertones. I've never considered it fascistic. And believe you me, I can smell that sort of thing from a mile away.

I read in the "Socialist Worker" once how the term "fascism" has been tossed around far too loosely, becoming a blanket insult for anything not progressive, rather than a specific historical phenominon. I suspect the German screenwriter had fallen into this trap.

If Thulsa Doom's followers had all been black, there would be cause for concern.

(Incidently, notice that Scar's greatest crime in "The Lion King" was contaminating the purity of the Lion's realm with dark coloured hyenas? Prolly wasn't what the writers intended.)

No, I would say Milinus saved the fascism for "Red Dawn".

-Steve E.

John Heatter reply
I agree with you that Harlan should be totally involved with any screen production to get it right and with what happened to City on the edge and Boy and his dog...well "crying shame" sums it up.

Harlan would need tons of money...ten assistants (who had strong backs and clear vision) and access to the best in effects teams...you know,,,a miracle.

Well a guy can dream. :o)

Da Man

Ladies and gentlemen, I too would stand hours (even days) in line to buy a new Ellison book. But the man has served his sentence. He should be allowed to walk among the public unfettered.

You know as well as I do that he's got the bug. Not writing would eventually drive him insane. So I stand firm in my knowledge that he still fights the good fight.

I don't know if patience is a virtue but without it we'd all be spoiled little brats.

Johnny H.

"I've been jonesing for a new Ellison collection for a while..."

NEED

NEW

ELLISON!

Rough Beasts
Actually, Harlan, the question regarding The Ray Bradbury Theater was Todd Cassel's, but I just finished reading the article on Bradbury in the new issue of _Amazing_ and according to the man himself he wrote all of the scripts himself. Thank you for your quick reply re: Rough Beasts. I've been jonesing for a new Ellison collection for a while, and I can't wait to see it. Good luck with the workload.

James

Welcome, John White
John,

Harlan goes into great detail about "City on the Edge of Forever" in his book, "City on the Edge of Forever." Has a lot of great info in it, all the significant stuff you might ever want to know about it (and some you might not...), AND the original teleplay, which you may be unfamiliar with. I recommend it highly. You can get info on how to buy it on THIS VERY WEBSITE. Just go to http://harlanellison.com/herc.htm and follow the instructions. The book is selling for $12.00, and it's got more Ellison commentary on "City" than you can shake a Joan Collins at.

Here's the info on it:

"THE CITY ON THE EDGE OF FOREVER (White Wolf - 1996)
$12.00 - Trade Paperback
Harlan's original teleplay, plus a long, expanded introductory essay by HE. The sizzling inside story. It took 30 years of anger to write this one. Afterwords by Leonard Nimoy, DeForest Kelly, Walter Koenig, and others."

-Keith

David - Avoiding? Moi? If by "avoiding" you mean "spending the last 24 hours working like a lunatic at the office because things are haywire and I'm the only farm hand with gloves, while simultaneously scribbling out a 30 page short story, off-loading 3GB of old files to optical back-up and cleaning house after a week on the road to NY and Austin, TX" - then yeah, I've been avoiding the hell out of you. :-P

Truth is, I have no answers for you yet, because I haven't booked the San Fran - Portland leg of my trip, awaiting my return from mywhirlwind trip to the nation of Texas and word from the delightful Amy as to her schedule. I will say odds are good I'm available for lunch. More details forthcoming in the forum.

Keith, Darryl, Rich - Thanks for the input. Darryl, I'll drop you an e-mail and we'll see what shakes out.

Conan! Barbarian! Conan! Warrior of Steel! With his battle axe..
Steve,

The "Lucas telegram" is actually something influenced by Joesph Campbell's "Hero of a thousand faces". I can't remember the exact part but at a certain stage in a hero's journey, he has to face his father figure and either join or destroy him.

(My copy of "Hero" was stolen by a woman beating Scottish screenwriter whom I kicked out of my house a few years back. Apologies for not getting the exact reference. I'm sure its being put to good use as a lethal weapon on some defenceless 19 year old).

Thulsa Doom's is referring to giving Conan a motive to live. Basically, if Doom hadn't killed Conan's parents, the Scharwz wouldn't have cared less about Snake man.

Conan has more in common with Apocalypse Now. Both films revolving around a hero's journey, overcome numerous obstacles and then face a dark surrogate father figure who offers the chance to join them or be destroyed.

All good stuff though, now have to depart to watch Collateral.

FAQ

Mostly, a question.
At the risk of sounding dorky, I have been a fan of yours for a great many years. I say forgive me for being late because only yesterday did I realize and find that you have a wonderful website online. I should have found it years ago! I am reading it slowly so as not to finish it too soon but I did today read Susanand one of my favorites Paladin of the Lost Hour. A TV columnist for the St.Louis Post-Dispatch on Tuesday published and article praising Rod Serling and the original Twilight Zone series. He also had nice things to say about the Night Gallery series (although he mistakenly said Joan Collins played the rich blind lady who bought eyes on the eve of the NY blackout, when it was Joan Crawford). He further went on to say that the new Twilight Zone series that CBS put on in the 80s was not very good. I emailed him and asked him if hed seen Paladin of the Lost Houron that series. He wrote back, no but he did see a show where some ill-behaved kids got their parents put in a human dog pound. From that one show (which he probably described wrong) he decided the whole series was bad. They actually pay that guy good money to write about things he knows nothing about.

Many years ago, I first saw you on a New York based talk show. The host whos name I cant recall, (he was a handsome dark-haired young chap who was very popular at the time) was interviewing you about your book Dangerous Visions and you talked some about science fiction movies that were cool and that we love like Invasion of the Body Snatchers. I began then reading your work and have been a fan ever since. My long awaited question is, I read in David Gerrolds book that you were very unhappy with changes made to your script for City on the Edge of Foreverfor Star Trek, to the point of showing Gene Coon or Roddenberry (one of those Genes) a noose and daring them to say to your face that they changed your words. Is there an article somewhere or an essay where you discuss those events? Thanks and best regards.

REPLY TO JAMES PALMER

Ray Bradbury wrote most of the teleplays for his cable "Theater" series himself, as best I recall. There may have been others hired freelance to supplement Ray's writings, by the producers, mayhap; but I have no knowledge of that. To answer your question directly, no, I did not write for The Ray Bradbury Theater.

ROUGH BEASTS has not been published. The original publisher suffered a cataclysmic death in the family, and went into deep seclusion. Some years ago. Now the project sits here await the moment more pressing work is cleared off, at which time I will seek out and find a new home for the book. But (yet another of my promises, most of which I keep) those who, in Denver, paid out good money to pre-purchase the book years ago...be assured, I have busted my ass to obtain the list of your names from the now-hermitlike publisher, and will track down as best I can, each and all of you. And you'll get the book when it is realized.

Patience of a superior sort is required where the ROUGH BEASTS project is concerned. But at least I've answered your question, Mr. Palmer.

Yr. pal, Harlan

various and sundry

Dave Clarke:

Of course I know _OF_ Jean Shepherd, but I'm a relative latecomer (my wife introduced me to "The Christmas Story" roughly 10 years ago) and unfortunately have never heard his radio work.

Barney:

Have you read my extensive review of "The Fog of War" on the DocumentaryFilms.net site? One of the better things I've written this year, I think. I especially liked looking into the "Sherman burned his way across Georgia" myth.

Alex Krislov:

L'shanah tovah yourself, from a non-practicing atheist. Rosh Hashanah service last night was good . . . from the bimah, anyway. Taking in the "audience," however, it was a little weird: Former Governor Neil Goldschmidt (and Carter's Secretary of Transportation) was in the crowd, sans non-Jewish wife; and the publisher whose alternative weekly paper broke the story this spring of Goldschmidt's "relationship" with a 14-year-old girl back in the 1970s when he was 35-year-old mayor of Portland was sitting some rows behind him. Talk about your uncomfortable situations.

C'mon FinderDoug, are you purposefully avoiding me?

I just started reading Eileen Warburton's big new biography of one of my other favorite living authors, John Fowles, whom I discovered right about the same time I first read Ellison, circa 1974-75.

Two authors whose lives and work could hardly be more different, yet I know Harlan has spoken admiring of Fowles, and I keep running into passages in these early pages that resonate. A form-master at his boarding school wrote of the teenager: "He will find his path, even it if be neither obvious nor straight, and it will be neither dull nor selfish."

Even better: "Agah recommended: 'If he can suffer fools with patience -- and I believe he can -- he may live to be a valuable servant of the community.' No amount of school responsibility would erase this character trait, however."

The entire book, its introduction, opens with an epigraph that's entirely apropos of a debate we had a long time ago, either on the main bulletin board here at Webderland, or on alt.fan.harlan-ellison, about the author's right to control of his papers and private reality; Harlan eventually "published" a clear statement of his own on the subject. Fowles's conclusion on the matter is pretty surprising. But maybe I should post that to the Webderland Forums. . . .

Milius and Dennie Miller would make a great gay couple. Miller has those soft dainty hands just perfect for grade a reach arounds.

---------

Looks like Nader won't be on the ballot in Florida. Yeaaaaaa. Totalitarianism aint so bad. Burp.

RE: John Milius

I generally can't abide by John Milius' right wing drivel. The original script of Apocalypse Now read more like Kelly's Heroes. Thank goodness Coppola rewrote the ending to be closer to Heart of Darkness and added all the sacrificial imagery as an allusion to Eisenstein. Red Dawn, of course, is palpable nonsense.

As for Conan, it was weakened by some truly B Movie dialog that Howard would never have countenanced. The bastardized Nietzschean philosophy is ham-fisted. And why on earth Milius ended his Conan movie with a telegram to George Lucas is beyond me (Having James Earl Jones tell Conan he's his father, etc.).

I know Milius did do excellent work on other scripts (I think Patton is one of them), but when he is left to his own devices, he seems to run mad.

Leader Board

Yea, I have struggled and strived...and still the damn thing's fucked...but the COLLECTING HARLAN! leaderboard in Pop Culture is finally up for last quarter ...ok it's swaying in the wind, but still somewhat horizontal...

luv to all

jono

HOLY CRAP!
No it isn't about religion.

Someone else has heard of Jean Shepherd!

Dave Clark! The first I heard of Jean Shepherd was on a radio program called CRAZY COLLEGE a few years ago. After he died the new york station where he used to work did a tribute for him hosted by Harry Shearer. C.C. ran this show in two one hour episodes. Crazy College is produced written and hosted by George Stewart from somewhere down in Delaware. I doubt that it's syndicated but we get it through WDIY public radio here in the Allentown area. Hit the search engines!

I must relate this tale since I'm on the subject: As a naive youth, camping with my family, I was forbidden to shoot our bb gun without supervision (can you see where this is going?) But like all growing boys I was prone to pushing the envelope and when left alone I would sneak a few shots into an evil tin can or rogue tree. As I became more accustomed to carrying my trusty Daisy around unsupervised, I grew braver and more carefree with my rampage of justice. Well, there was this bee, see, and it happened to be on the edge of a picnic table. Taunting me. No more than maybe five feet away. I lifted my gun, aimed and fired. The gun popped and suddenly there was a searing pain in my left eye. I dropped the gun. I couldn't see!The first thought in my head was (yup, you guessed it) "I shot my eye out!" Just like in the movie! I ain't kidding, folks! True story! After a short while my vision returned, everything was okay. All the while I was shitting my pants, first for shooting my eye out, second for fear of explaining to my old man what I was doing with the gun out.

Just thought I'd share. I think of it every time I hear Jean Shepherds name.

Also, I want Rod to know that while I myself would love to see more adapted Ellison on the silver screen I doubt there is anyone capable of doing the work properly outside of the man himself. And somehow I doubt he has the time or arterial fortitude to bend to our every whim and wish (although Bruce probably taught him about fluidity). And now that the subject has come up I can't hide my ire over the I ROBOT b.s.!!! ARRRGH!!! Eat paste, Hollywood! I'm going home to watch Almodovar!

Johnny H.

If you happen to be in the LA area......
If you happen to be in the LA area, please check out a series of one act plays called "Posing As People," playing at the Whitefire Theatre in Sherman Oaks. The three plays are each based on early stories by Orson Scott Card, who directed the play: Lifeloop, Clap Hands and Sing, and A Sepulchre Of Songs. Each was adapted for the stage by some of the very talented actors in the cast. Scott's daughter, Emily, adapted and starred in Sepulchre, the most touching of the three plays.

Some links if you are interested:

General Information: http://www.hatrack.com/plays.shtml

A review: http://www.socal.com/articles/1180-9.html

This is no "community theatre" production; it is the real thing. I saw the show last Friday, and I will no doubt catch it a few more times before it closes in mid October. Catch this if you can. The plays are brilliantly written and are actually more engaging than the original stories.

And Stefan Rudnicki's role as a tired old man with too many regrets is not to be missed!

John Milius is a fine writer and sometimes a good director. And I agree with Benjamin, Conan the Barbarian is a terrific film that has the nerve to treat pulp Howard as if its classic Samurai drama. So its not Kurosawa or Lean. Fuck it! Its still a rocking good movie with a cracking soundtrack. And no CGI! Though that rubber snake stinks...

Incidentally, Milius, who was not only good friends with Stanley Kubrick, but whilst in college, (and I'd like confirmation on this tale), arranged for a "honor guard" to protect a student distributing socialist literature and prevent a beating from some football jocks. I was told this by a film critic but it doesn't sound out of character from what I've heard of the man.

I also once had an arguement with a sexy screenwriter in Berlin who compared Milius to Hitler due to him writing Conan! Little did she know...

For good Milius, have a look at Apocalypse Now, Dillinger, Conan, Judge Roy Bean and try and get the original scripts for Geronimo (all told from Geronimo's POV).

FAQ

Re Aldiss:
Thanks for the info. I did indeed get the "Airplane", and being a Rock'n'Roll affectionado, appreciated it immensly.

Re Milius:
Don't get me started on "Red Dawn". My last forray into this topic did not go very well. Suffice to say: it's more than a "bit conservative".

Adam Troy:

I passed the Bush game. Rivetting stuff. The final battle is quite intense. Think I used MR. T on it. . .

Righteously,

S. Evil

Harlan:
Did you get the electronic Subterranean press link I sent?

To all Fritz Leiber fans:
An illustrated adaptation of "Gonna Roll the Bones" has just been published. The illustrator is David Wiesner, who has won the Caldecott medal for his work(check out "Tuesday"& "Sector 7").
Cheers, Colleen

David Loftus:

I've been reading your posts about old time radio shows. Are you also a fan of Jean Shepherd? I'm reading his book "In God We Trust" and enjoying it immensely (yes, the Red Ryder 200 shot range model BB gun will put your eye out). I found out via the 'net that he was a NYC radio personality for many years with some non-stop, off-the-cuff patter that's said to be very entertaining.

Oh, and did ya ever visit the sucker rack at the Beaverton Powell's? That's the way overpriced rack of paperbacks near the collectible glass case section. I just shake my head at those.

Re: Paypal KICK
Found both John and Jay Gillespie. Thank you.

Wish I could've made Dragoncon. Maybe in two years. Right now, I'm hoping I have the scratch to attend James Randi's upcoming Amazing Meeting, in Vegas this January.

Okay, John Milius. Definitely an engaging guy, and he's done some decent scripts. But I'm not certain that he did the "Indianapolis' scene in _Jaws_. Co-screenwriter Carl Gottlieb reports that a lot of people worked on that scene, but Robert Shaw, a fine playwright as well as an actor, wrote the version he ultimately performed. I believe Gottlieb, actually; as he put it, who wasn't there and claims the credit, and who _was_ there and says someone _else_ should get the credit?

Brian Aldiss' _Starship_. I was going to make a joke about how it was originally called _Airplane_ in the Sixties. Didn't think anyone'd get it. Then, someone answered the question correctly. Another one of Life's Lost Opportunities, I guess.

Re atheism and faith. I have my opinions on the subject. But I've found that when the topic comes up,_nobody_ wants to even consider the opinions I hold. So I have to keep my mouth shut.

Still working on _Ulysses_, people. Other than that... well, no real news. But I'll keep ya posted.

Bruce Lee
I have a question for Harlan that's a bit out of left field - though at this point I think it's pretty unlikely that I'm going to ask a question that nobody's ever posed before.

I was listening to a radio interview you gave to NPR (I believe) some while back, and you mentiioned in passing that you trained under Bruce Lee. I was focusing on the topic of the interview so it didn't hit me until later. Bruce Lee.

!!!!!

Harlan, am I just being gullible? If not, what was the fellow like? It's not that I'm a rapacious fan of his, I've only seen one movie... but martial arts have long been an interest of mine and he is undeniably one of the greats. Was he famous at the time, or just some guy who happened to make out ok later on? Do you have any abiding memories/impressions of the experience? How long were you studying? Did he usually teach class, or was mostly run by students? Did you ever spar with him?

Just curious, in case you were looking for a topic upon which to reminisce. No biggie if you're not having it, though.

Uh...politics?
Wow. Moratorium on Athiesm vs. Theism. Gotta love it. On to more important things: Politics!

Kidding, mostly.

A friend of mine just quit her job to go work full time for the Kerry Campaign. That makes me feel good for some reason.

And...Marion Berry, associate of crack whores and drug dealers, the king of DC Cronyism, just won the Democratic Primary for a seat on the DC Council. Hopefully he has turned himself around and can focus on getting those good folks in Ward 8 (D.C.'s poorest, and mostly forgotten) some active representation.

Harlan, your comments yesterday made me hungry for a breakfast of french toast and sausages with syrup...maybe I SHOULD be watching my weight....

FinderDoug: I hear the sea lions down by the pier are an awesome site, though I've never been there.

-Keith

Flicks
Harlan

If you had the opportunity to put some of your stories such as Run for the stars, Along the scenic route or Life hutch (to name a few)to movie format would you? If you had this but nothing transpired then why?
I have enjoyed the stories you have written for 25 years and although people have at times changed/modified your work it was still, at a foundation level, top notch.
Thanks for creating stuff to collect.


Rod

Doc: How right you are. I made too many sweeping generalizations in my post and regret it.

Cindy: Thank you for your gracious response to my somewhat ungracious e-mail. I appreciate your understanding.

Harlan: Thank you for cutting this short.

Steve Dooner

brief P.S.

By the way, Milius turns up in "Riding Giants" several times. He talks about how a high school mentor was appalled when he said all he wanted to do after graduation was surf. The movie is cool enough not to rub it in about his subsequent achievements. I suspect there may be some people who will go to see this documentary and not realize who he is. I point it out in my review for DocumentaryFilms.net, of course. (It's not online yet; the site owner lives in Mississippi and has battened down the hatches for Ivan -- gimme a week, he says.)

A Bradbury Question
About a week ago I was reminded once again that Ray Bradbury likes to take credit as being in some way an influence On Johnson not running for a 2nd term. Since I only became "politically conscious" in the most generous sense of the word, halfway through Nixon's 1st term I have no firsthand recollection of any of this beyond watching footage of the Vietnam War on television and hoping I wouldn't be sent. The war had been going on my entire life and in '69 it didn't look to be slowing down.

I seem to remember this thing about Bradbury and Johnson was over troop escalation in the Vietnam War. But things with Bradbury and politics are looking a bit different these days. Does anybody know what Bradbury's specific claims of influence refer to? I just watched THE FOG OF WAR and although it's very good and revalatory about some things, McNamarra was gone before Johnson declined the nomination so that only gets a brief mention.

- Barney Dannelke

ps. My camera was M.I.A. for 6 days and I was pretty upset as it would have meant not only replacing a pretty nice camera but also the loss of about 100 great Dragon*Con photos. It has since turned up and i'll try and get something out by the weekend.

books and chat

Hey, FinderDoug:

Am I or am I not going to get to see you when you swing up to Portland? (I haven't cleaned out Powell's, I promise; although I did buy a couple of Ace paperbacks -- geez, they were peddling them at $15 and $20, can ya believe that, Harlan? -- as well as an uncorrected proof copy of _Slippage_ last week.)

Doc wrote:

". . . re-read such posts as those left by Loftus and Dooner - who remain, I point out, interesting fellows with things to say." Thanks, fella. Good manners and an occasional compliment go a long way. I'm currently involved in a discussion of Jewish conversion on rec.arts.books, if anyone's curious; I mentioned Harlan there, and somebody named Susan Cohen responded:

"I once teased him that he could *call* himself an atheist all he wanted, but he *proved* that he was really Jewish because *that's* what he answered when he wasn't thinking :-)) "

Jono posted me privately about errors and out-of-date info in my Ellison Audiography on the Islets of Langerhans. Yeah, it's been a good year since I updated the entire list, and a couple of years since I did a review or three of some of the recordings. I have quite a few more in my collection than I've written about -- I try to do an assiduous and complete job, and I get tired. Maybe I'll try to do a few more before the end of the year.

And whoever it was, thanks for the info on the Atlanta Radio Theater Co. recordings. I ordered the Ellison readings last week.

Frank:

You sneered at Alterman's book, _What Liberal Media?_ and said Chomsky and Bagdikian had done it before. But don't Chomsky and Bagdikian talk more about the structural aspects of the problem? I finished Alterman's book and appreciate it for the detail: the personalities of fellow commentators, the specific things they wrote when they were riding Clinton and Gore (with whom they have so much more in common) hard and going unforgivably easy on Bush.

Besides, the left needs all the support and communion it can muster. An implicit message I get from Alterman is that the left hardly needs conservative enemies as long as it keeps being its own worst enemy. I'd advise you to accentuate the positive among your allies as well: your most irritating trait, from my perspective, is to deride people with whom you have a lot more in common than we all have with our common enemies, thereby giving the latter more comfort and ammunition.

Better to trumpet where your compatriots are right than to tear down where you find them wrong. (Matter of fact, it can be a useful tactic with one's perceived enemies, as well.)

FinderDoug

Well, I'm no expert, but I do work and eat in SF. I live in the 'burbs, with 2 kids, yadda, yadda, yadda. Off the top of my head...

I think that the best place for walking (during the daytime) is the Mission District. You didn't say where your conference is (I assume it's the Moscone Center). You'll be close to Mission Street. There are many buses which travel down Mission street. Get off around 15th and Mission, and just walk around. Many really cool places to eat (try Taqueria Can-cun 2288 Mission), consistently good, for next to no money). There are also interesting bookstores (one of which is Modern Times, at 888 Valencia Street).

You gotta go to City Lights books (261 Columbus Avenue), in the North Beach area of the City, location of the beginning of the Beats. Fantastic bookstore.

One of my favorite bookstores is Acorn Books, located at 1436 Polk Street. I kick myself that I didn't buy Volumes II and III of the bound "Strand" magazine originals they had there when I had the chance. Yes, that's right, the original printed versions of the Sherlock Holmes stories. Bummer.

Another favorite bookstore is McDonald's Bookshop (48 Turk Street, near Union Square), commonly known as "A Dirty, Poorly-Lit Place For Books." Greatest used bookstore in CA, as far as I'm concerned. Just reopened after the earthquake retrofit of their building. Great stuff if you don't mind digging and dust.

As far as food is concerned...

There's almost too much to mention. I'll stay nearish where you are hotelling, and give you some of my "off the beaten track" favorites.

Right along the water is a street called The Embarcadero. If you face the clock tower, the piers run odd numbers to the left, and even numbers to the right. If you go to the left (you can take a streetcar), you'll come to pier 23. There's a restaurant called, amazingly enough, Pier 23. Try to eat there. It's pretty cool, and they have the greatest root beer floats on earth. Interesting rotating art on the walls, and great music in the CD changer.

For something a little fancy, you can go to an alley, called Belden Place. It is a row of eating places, in the European style (outdoor tables, agressive maitre'd trying to get you to choose their place). Go to a place called Plouf. Order, as an appetizer, potato wrapped scallops. First time I had them, I had to close my eyes and sway. Stunning dish, one of the best things I've ever eaten. Fantastic menu all around. Not as pricey as you would think.

If you find yourself in North Beach, and you want a snack, go to a storefront called Liguria Bakery, at 1700 Stockton Street. They only make foccacia. It's the best I've ever had, and I honeymooned in Italy. Get there relatively early (before about 12:30) as when they sell out the day's production, they just close.

This one's a bit of a far walk, but it's a special treat. On lower Broadway (430 Broadway, to be precise, away from the nudie clubs) is a small place called Helmand. They serve Afghani (!) food. Try the roasted pumpkin, amazingly enough. A hint sweet with ground beef. Sounds gross, but is transcendant. Lamb kebabs to die for.

If you find yourself in Chinatown, you can go to a place called Yuet Lee. Have the mussels/clams in black bean sauce, or the salt and pepper roast spareribs. So good you'll want to smack other Chinese cooks upside the head. 1300 Stockton Street.

If you like historical eating, you can go to John's Grill, where a scene was set in Dashiell Hammett's The Maltese Falcon. You can even have the same thing eaten by Sam Spade in the book; chops, baked potato and sliced tomatoes. Not bad.

Very near your hotel (St. Francis, I assume) is a place called Kuleto's. Not the absolute best food in the city, but hey, you only have to walk 1 block to get there. And it's good.

If you want to have lunch, you can email me at (this is a real address, which I'll delete in a week or so -- I'm the Exchange admin) finderdoug@sideman.com.

Enough?

Milius may or may not be a hack director, but he did write the screenplays for "Dirty Harry," "The Life and Times of Judge Roy Bean,""Dillinger," "The Wind and the Lion,""Big Wednesday," and "Apocalypse Now." Also, he was the uncredited writer of the "Indianapolis" scene in "Jaws," which is the finest writing in the film.

So chill, Frank.

Sorry, Frank, but "hack" is a heavy-duty word, and one you should be careful about throwing carelessly around.I won't deny that Milius is a supporter of some of the creepier aspects of Nietzschean thought, but CONAN THE BARBARIAN is an absolutely riveting piece of cinema - and it really isn't as racist as some people would like to believe. If you watch it carefully enough, I think you'll come to see that James Earl Jones' Thulsa Doom is an infinitely better example of Nietzschean values (POSITIVE Nietzschean values) than Ahnuld's Conan could ever hope to be. And, c'mon - Doom rocks, man.

Yesterday, this twit bastard, John Milius, the producer and writer, who gave us the awful Red Dawn, was on the AMC network spouting on about how liberals were unfair to his movies, because they had a conservative slant. He whined that he was being blacklisted from making more films. His point was that mean liberals in Hollyweird are worse then the right, who blacklisted folks in the days or yore.

No, fuckhead, Red Dawn was just a bad film, and you are a hack. Has nothing to do with your politics. Now, suck the pipe, and go away.

I'm sure Darryl can provide better remarks on the sights and sounds, but when my wife and were there, we spent an entire day just wandering. Do the same on 'dead Wednesday'.

Forgo Fisherman's Wharf or some of the more obvious tourist spots 'cause it doesn't sound like you're going to be there long, but DO hop on the cable car at least once (yeah, yeah, it's touristy, but, hey, how many cities actually have one, huh?) and DO visit Chinatown just so you can eat there and say, "It's Chinatown."

By the way, the Cartoon Art Musuem is kinda cool if a bit difficult to locate at first, but it may also be somewhat of a letdown. Still, I enjoyed it, but the wife...not so much. Of course, I'm the geek and she's not.

Harlan - Fantastic news about the presence of Charles Aidman's stellar work, thank you. I was skeptical of ANY narrator besides Rod Serling until that first episode, but he won me over quickly and fully. Nothing against Robin Ward, who I think was put in an unenviable position to begin with, but the re-recorded voice-overs for syndication were just too sparkling, too chipper, and never set the right mood. With Aidman's voice, you had the anticipation of the strange and curious about to unfold. With Ward, it felt like story time at the library.

CALLING ALL WEST COAST WEBDERLANDERS (including our Patron Author, who knows stuff and things): After 36 years of shuffling along this mortal coil, I'm making my first-ever west coast trip during the last week of October, for a trade show in San Francisco. So far, I've penciled in the concessions to my inner photographer (the Golden Gate Bridge, Alcatraz - I need to snap the lighthouse for my collection). I've also factored in stops at the Cartoon Art Museum and a trip to the Pickwick Hotel, in whose lobby I will write post cards (literary geekism - catch the fever!) (Hell, I'd have stayed in the Pickwick, but I'm not going to argue with the company's travel office, which is voluntarily putting me up at the Westin - perhaps to make up for that place they put me in Austin last week...)

I'm in on Sunday, out on Thursday. I'll have time to roam around (especially on 'dead Wednesday' - the last day of any show is essentially dead). So does anyone have any must-see, must-do recommendations for my time in the Bay area? Sights? Tastes? Sounds? Book havens? I'll take a personal recommendation over Triple A or the 'net any day.

Ray Bradbury Theater
Todd: The Ray Bradbury Theater episodes were all adaptations of Bradbury's short stories, though, I suppose Harlan could have turned one or two of them into an episode. I don't remember his name on any of the credits.

Also, and please forgive me if this is buried somewhere in the archives, but does anyone have any info on a forthcoming Harlan collection entitled Rough Beasts? If it's in the archives, just tell me, and I'll go look for it. I just noticed the title while glancing through the bibliography in the front of my new copy of _Slippage_ that I bought at Dragon*Con. For some reason, this has escaped my notice until now.

James

L'shanah tovah
Seems a strange way to follow up Harlan's message, but....

Happy New Year, everyone, and l'shanah tovah to all my fellow yids. May your year be happy, healthy and sweet. May you all be inscribed and sealed for a fine year.

Aldiss' _Starship_

Mr. Evil,

The original British title was _Non-Stop_.

It has always been called _Starship_ in the United States.

informationally,
the mite

PUKE LEVEL HAS BEEN REACHED

Awright, dammit! Enough is bloody enough, already!

I am sick to vomiting with the regular reappearance of this religion vs. atheism crap!!!!! HIVES is more fun.

SO KNOCK IT OFF!!!!! There are a million other topics to chat about and none of us is either Tielhard du Chardin or Thomas Aquinas, both of whom spent lifetimes trying to get a handle on this thing, and wound up chasing their own tails.

There are only two kinds of faith-based behavior: honorable or dishonorable. And anyone who is the former can believe any friggin' way s/he finds soothing, while the latter cannot believe ANYthing that will put him/her above my loathing. So if you MUST beat this poor critter any further, do it in another thread on the forums.

But kindly cut me some slack; and while you're at it, Cindy is a friend of mine, so you god-denying atheistic bastards can just get off her back and leave her alone, or you'll have to deal with a semi-deranged Ellison. And trust me, today has been such a wretched bitch of a ballbuster that you do not want to dick with me.

Not today you don't.

Harlan

Chris L: "I will note, however, our history is replete with incidences of believers attacking and persecuting non-believers but very few counter examples."

Actually, there was. Behind the iron curtain, there were instances of people who held any faith getting, at best, second class citizen treatment. At best. China's not exactly known for religious tolerance.

Still, I do remember when someone here in Denver tried to start an atheist book store. People I knew who went to it said it was one of the dullest book shops they'd ever seen. But that's not why it went out of business. The store went out of business because repeated acts of vandalism caused the owner to lose his insurance, and without that, he had to close. I've never heard of that happening to any religious book store, Christian or otherwise.

I wish the people who took it upon themselves to commit those acts of vandalism had taken Sunday school under someone like our own Cindy Jones. Then maybe they'd be more worthy to call themselves Christians.

And I agree with Doc on one thing: I've found some atheists - *some* mind you - who could be just as intolerant and boring as any theocrat. I think it's simply human nature. We humans are not all smiles and sunshine, no matter what we believe.

Chuck

The Atheism Thing Revisited (For the Last Time, We Hope)
**Look, kids - when it comes to individual religious/spiritual beliefs, ain't nobody right, ain't nobody wrong.**

> You've already lost me with this. Clearly, someone is right
> and someone is wrong.

Sez who? My point is, it's the individual who gets to decide. For him- or herself. And no one else.

> It might be more accurate if you suggested we don't know for
> certain who is right and who is wrong but life, the universe
> and everything ain't just a matter of opinion

But in many ways, Chris, it IS.

> and one of the fundamental decisions a person makes in his
> life, wittingly or not, is what standards he or she uses to
> evaluate truth.

Truth is a tricky area. As a diabetic, the truth is, sugar is bad. For ME. It is not necessarily true for everyone else. And nobody gets to decide that for me (except maybe my pesky physician).

> Do you demand replicable, verifiable evidence or not?

Not in all things. Nor do I need to.

**I cannot COUNT (because it is so high a number) the number of Atheists who have either tried to sway me to their views directly or to shame me out of my own beliefs through sheer sneerpower.**

> ... All I can say is that I find it awfully hard to believe
> and I have never heard of any instance of an atheist trying
> to "sway" anybody unless any mere discussion on the matter and
> a challenge of a theist's beliefs counts as an attempt
> to "sway."

I think you might be surprised at how many conversations I've found myself in, when the conversation has rolled around to religion/spirituality, only to have at least one Atheist in the group begin ridiculing any form of spiritual pursuit and try to jolly me and/or others into "right-thinking". And no, you don;t know me well enough to cast aspersions on my honesty.

> I think your latter claim sounds somewhat more likely - I can
> buy that there are atheists who look down on theists with some
> degree of condescension and may not even attempt to hide it.

Believe it.

> ... I cannot, for the life of me, understand how any rational,
> reasonably intelligent adult can believe in God anymore than I
> can believe he might still believe in Santa Claus or the
> Easter Bunny.

Nor do you need to. This is another of my points (in addition to the one under my hat), that their religious/spiritual beliefs are no more your business than yours are theirs. So long as nobody's trying to bully anyone into behaving as they think the other ought to, using religion/spirituality/god/no god as a lever, what difference does it make?

> ...Just read Francis Bacon's vicious essay on atheism and that
> guy's high on my list of "intelligent adults."

You might have alook at Benjamin Franklin's autobiography, too.

> I will note, however, our history is replete with incidences
> of believers attacking and persecuting non-believers but very
> few counter examples.

I'll try this again - people who behave like that don't really fall under the heading of what I'd call believers in anything except what they perceive as power. And it does indeed happen amongst the believers themselves - Romans/Jews/Christians, everybody else/Mormons. I submit that this persecution had nothing - NOTHING - to do with a genuine belief in any god, and everything to do with making others do/believe as the persecutors demanded.

> Heck, the guy in Florida who had an "ATHEIST" license plate
> was repeatedly vandalized...

Ever wonder if maybe the guy was just a jerk and it had nothing to do with his plates? Seriously, I have no answer for that one, other than that I've already mentioned.

> ...I don't hear about atheists attacking all those little
> "Jesus fish" cars.

Maybe you just haven't heard... >:)

> Though I'll reckon the thought has briefly crossed my mind
> from time to time but only when the Jesus fish are accompanied
> by giant "W" stickers or NRA decals. :)

If it would have an effect on anything but the poor, innocent car, I might join you. :)

**But there seems to have been a lot said here, lately, about what blind blockheads who have no power to perceive or communicate beauty Christians are - and they have been pretty blankety in nature.**

> I haven't noticed any of these here. Do you have anything
> specific in mind?

Come now - review the last couple of pages. The tenor of some comments is abundantly clear. Since it appears to be impossible to refer without "finger-pointing", re-read such posts as those left by Loftus and Dooner - who remain, I point out, interesting fellows with things to say.

Meanwhile, since our friends here are probably as weary as is possible of the Atheism/Christianity discussion, maybe you and anyone else who wish to continue should reach me through private email.

Cheers,
Doc

You know, I've had Mormons, Baptists and Jehovah's Witnesses at my door more than once trying to convert me (in my completely subjective experience, the Mormons scored highest on the politeness factor, and as they were farther from home than all the others and in a foreign country during the summer, I got them glasses of water before I sent them on their way; results may vary). I've never had atheists.

I want atheists at my door!

Cheers, Jon

The atheism thing
Geez, Doc, how come you're so Grumpy? :)

**Look, kids - when it comes to individual religious/spiritual beliefs, ain't nobody right, ain't nobody wrong.**

You've already lost me with this. Clearly, someone is right and someone is wrong. It might be more accurate if you suggested we don't know for certain who is right and who is wrong but life, the universe and everything ain't just a matter of opinion and one of the fundamental decisions a person makes in his life, wittingly or not, is what standards he or she uses to evaluate truth. Do you demand replicable, verifiable evidence or not?


**I cannot COUNT (because it is so high a number) the number of Atheists who have either tried to sway me to their views directly or to shame me out of my own beliefs through sheer sneerpower.**

I am not going to suggest you aren't telling the truth because that would be entirely unfair of me and I don't know you well enough to make such an accusation. All I can say is that I find it awfully hard to believe and I have never heard of any instance of an atheist trying to "sway" anybody unless any mere discussion on the matter and a challenge of a theist's beliefs counts as an attempt to "sway." I think your latter claim sounds somewhat more likely - I can buy that there are atheists who look down on theists with some degree of condescension and may not even attempt to hide it.

I can understand it too. I cannot, for the life of me, understand how any rational, reasonably intelligent adult can believe in God anymore than I can believe he might still believe in Santa Claus or the Easter Bunny. YET (wait for it!) I am confronted by the obvious FACT that there are rational, reasonably intelligent adults who do believe in God. So I am hoist by my own petard. I cannot ignore the evidence. If my hypothesis is "No intelligent adult could believe in God" I have no choice but to reject my hypothesis most emphatically. Just read Francis Bacon's vicious essay on atheism and that guy's high on my list of "intelligent adults."

I will note, however, our history is replete with incidences of believers attacking and persecuting non-believers but very few counter examples. Heck, the guy in Florida who had an "ATHEIST" license plate was repeatedly vandalized - I don't hear about atheists attacking all those little "Jesus fish" cars. Though I'll reckon the thought has briefly crossed my mind from time to time but only when the Jesus fish are accompanied by giant "W" stickers or NRA decals. :)


**But there seems to have been a lot said here, lately, about what blind blockheads who have no power to perceive or communicate beauty Christians are - and they have been pretty blankety in nature.**


I haven't noticed any of these here. Do you have anything specific in mind?

Alien vs Predator, er, Atheism vs Christianity
If I get one more blanket statement tossed at me, I may very well smother...

Look, kids - when it comes to individual religious/spiritual beliefs, ain't nobody right, ain't nobody wrong. Until and unless they try to force it on others, whether face-to-face on your doorstep or amid the highest available legislative body, or use it to justify selfish behavior.

And that goes for the Atheists as well as the Christians.

I cannot COUNT (because it is so high a number) the number of Atheists who have either tried to sway me to their views directly or to shame me out of my own beliefs through sheer sneerpower. Just like a lot of them frothing-at-the-mouth Right wing conservative fundamentalist types.

Furthermore, I have had a number of friends, family and acquaintances who professed Christianity who never even asked about my beliefs, yet led (and I presume, in some cases, continue to lead) productive lives with which they are entirely satisfied, based on trying to bring their *personal* lives into line with they're perception of what that Jesus guy tried to teach people.

Please don't misunderstand - I'm not trying to paint the Atheist black and the Christian white, here (and you can keep your PC remarks to yourself, on my choice of color scheme). But there seems to have been a lot said here, lately, about what blind blockheads who have no power to perceive or communicate beauty Christians are - and they have been pretty blankety in nature.

Will you discount the work of Coleridge? Milton? Dante? I'm fighting poets with poets, but there are plenty of other examples available.

My great-grandad was a barber in western Oklahoma for 40-odd years, and a devout Christian. At a time when things were shall we say lively on the matter of racial equality, I never knew him to decline a customer on the basis of skin color. He was always generous with his time, talent and money, when it came to charity or help for the needy.

Contrariwise, I had (past tense) an Atheist friend who declined to let me use the toilet in his home, when he discovered I was queer (there - now you know).

Any group of "like-minded" people, whether a religious body or otherwise, is gonna fuck up, when they get together and become an Institution. Christians, Muslims, Hindus, Buddists, Atheists, name someone. Any one group who thinks they should and can tell everyone else how to behave is letting themselves in for heartache.

Any spiritual belief (and that includes Atheism - the Atheist believes there is no "God") is and was always designed for the individual's own comfort, inspiration and direction in how to live life and interact with one's fellow creatures and try to make the world a more bearable place for all.

People lose sight of that. It becomes inconvenient, whether to their greed or lust for power or just the satisfaction of their egomaniacal intellect. They say that religion has been the root of more trouble than anything else - I don't believe that. I believe that the manipulation of the "Believers" based on fear and selfish motives/desires has done that. When a guy shoots someone, do you blame the gun? I hope not - you'll end up putting the gun in jail and letting the nut run loose.

Do I believe in God? Yes. Why? That's my own business. Do I think everyone should believe in the god I believe in? Do I think everyone should believe in God at all? No - that's their business. I didn't grow up in it, but I've embraced Judaism - because, to me, it's about being responsible for my own actions, looking out for the next guy and trying to make the world a better place, even if it's just buying a hungry person a sandwich (if you can get them to let you buy 'em the sandwich instead of forking over cash). I don't blindly accept any Party lines - I don't know WHO Palastine belongs to, and I won't until I see a deed or receipt. Do I think the universe was created just for li'l old me? Seems like a lot of work, when there's so much of it I'll never see.

So if someone is trying to sell you something you don't want to or can't buy, a simple "No, thank you" will usually suffice. No need to become sanctimonious, in belief OR denial thereof. Let's try not to condemn folks for their beliefs, but for their actions.

Meanwhile - whatever became of Ernest Chappel? He was a terrific actor...

Cheers,
Doc

Chris L.
Your observation is flawless and well put.
Your admonishment was warranted and has been taken to heart.

Thanks, Chris, I really needed that.
Cindy


Steve Dooner,
I am sorry if I have offended you, it was not my intent.

In conclusion you wrote;

"Here's an explanation for my atheism: I loved the universe so much that I abandoned all the silly myths that prevented me from seeing it and respecting it for all its majesty and brilliance. I loved humanity so much that I would not let the provisions of a phony patriarchal deity give me excuses for my bad behavior. I loved my fellow human beings enough to know I should try to make things better than they are. See, atheism for me is love."

THAT was lovely and correct.

May we as Christians be so worthy.

Your soul is beautiful.
Cindy


I wrote;

"I was thinking of it as a large, powerful forwardly mobile vessel that neither shrinks from combat nor pauses to examine every phosphorescent bead in the sea."

To which David Loftus responded;

"That image strikes us atheists as incredibly amusing, since we are neither organized into congregations nor able to enjoy network broadcasts, print publications, or stadium rallies -- never mind an authoritative, "bestselling" text -- that gather us together in fellowship and for mass political action."

Take care, dear, lest some mistake your wit for intolerence.

Also, David wrote;

"I know your wishes to "cure" Harlan's atheism spring from the purest respect and caring you can manage, but there comes a point where the repetition of such interests becomes little more than disrespect for the other person's reality."


Harlan knows my respect for him is complete. As a friend I speak freely to him, as I would to you if you would stop trying to piss in my cheerios, lamb chop.
:)
Cindy

Now Reading: "Starship" by Brian Aldiss. Anyone remember what the original title was? I know it wasn't Starship!

Peg,

If there is forlorn mewling during the move, slightly muffled and punctuated by tentative scratching sounds, you will know for sure that you have accidentally packed the cat.

CONTACTING IMAGE ENTERTAINMENT ABOUT TZ BOXED SET

For those of you who indicated they might want to contact the designer/packager of the forthcoming Twilight Zone set featuring my four stories, here is the information for contact.

Valerie Swanson
IMAGE ENTERTAINMENT
20525 Nordhoff Street
Suite 200
Chatsworth, California
91311-6104

Phone: (818) 407-9100

e.mail: vswanson@image-entertainment.com

Or, I suppose, if you choose, you can scroll back and find the name of the guy that several Webderlanders found listed as her boss. Either way, keep it light and complimentary, and don't let on that we were all raised in the same creche in Dahomey.

Yr. pal, Harlan

Kolchak is back!
ALL: Picked up a copy of "The Night Stalker" & "The Night Strangler" on DVD today, and man, was it a treat to watch! If you don't have a copy, run to the store and get one -- now! I know the second feature was basically a re-write of the first (a classic, because of Matheson's writing), and that it's a little cheesy; but just about _anything_ with Darren McGavin in it always seems spectacular. (No one else can say "neeeeeuuuwspaper" the way he could).
Sure would like to catch reruns of the TV show again -- even if the writing as so-so half of the time, I really dug McGavin as Kolchak -- definitely a role model for us self-made journalists.
--DTS

Sub Press

Unca Harlan,

I will forward to Rick Wyatt the email I received from Sub Press...Right Now.

Dig it,

Neal

FINDER DOUG: The presence of dear Chuck Aidman's voice on the upcoming 1985-86 TZ boxed set -- speaking the intros and outros I WROTE and on which I worked with him in the recording studio to put into those shows -- was the first thing I personally checked when I got to the Image Entertainment studio.

He's there.

Every line.

That mellifluous voice.

It's there.

Yr. pal, Harlan

KEITH: Yes, of course, Infoman's URL works--my fingers are no pudgier than those great Bratwursts at the ends of YOUR wrists, Chubs--but it's just the standard Subterranean Press home page with its links and subdivisions. But nowhere thereat is the notice of an Ellison reprint extant. The page(s) I seek are the ones Infoman and Neal originally came across.

COLLEEN: Yes, please.

Yr. pal, Harlan

In its 2000 year history, Christianity almost always takes the form of obscurantism and tends to blind its followers with its unquestioning totalitarian worldview. There might be a few open-minded Christians whose faith helped them see the universe more deeply, but they are not the norm and they get rewarded the way Galileo did.

Intellectual curiosity begins when not all your questions are answered, and this would be antithetical to a religion that says it is "the way, the truth and the life."

How ill I get when my adult students unquestioningly accept a universe that is 5000 years old. How my gorge rises when they claim that evolution is only a highly troubled "theory." Clearly, they are the ones whose minds are shut. They are the people who walk in darkness. What beauty will they ever see in that benighted religious gloom that surrounds them.

I like the idea that Chris L. advanced--that Christians are essentially egocentric in their belief that nature is a present given to them by God. What a terrible legacy that attitude has given us!

The most disturbing thing though is that the inheritors of Christianity tend to turn it into whatever they want it to be. The religion is used to justify Bush's crusade, his tax breaks for the wealthy and his brutality towards the poor. To echo the Christian Existentialist philosopher, Soren Kierkegaard, surely this means there is NO such thing as "Christianity." It is a meaningless essentialist idea that can be acted on any way one pleases.

Considering their written provisions against such things: How a Christian could not object to George Bush's wars and executions is astonishing. And for the pro-life crowd, I'l say, George Bush is FOR killing full grown Iraqi babies--11,000 of them so far! I like to call this "Full Birth Abortion," and Bush would then be a "Full Birth Abortionist."

How a Christian could not object to Bush's treatment of the poor is similarly mind-boggling. The one original thing about the New Testament is that it said the poor were worthy of love and attention and that they were preferable to the rich. This is the ONLY original Christian idea in the ancient world, and yet, it is the single idea most trampled on by modern Christians.

It's all so silly to say that atheists have a hollow, cold, materialist way of looking at the world. All the best twentieth century writers and poets were atheists. James Joyce and Robert Frost were atheists. Do you think they missed the beauty in the "phosphorescent drops of water on the ocean."

Here's an explanation for my atheism: I loved the universe so much that I abandoned all the silly myths that prevented me from seeing it and respecting it for all its majesty and brilliance. I loved humanity so much that I would not let the provisions of a phony patriarchal deity give me excuses for my bad behavior. I loved my fellow human beings enough to know I should try to make things better than they are. See, atheism for me is love.

Steve Dooner,
Loving Pastral Atheist Who Sees the Poetry in All Things

Did Harlan ever do anything for Ray Bradbury Theatre? I just read that the complete series will be soon appearing on DVD. I'm not sure if any of his stories were done for that show, or if any original scripts were produced, but it certainly seems like the type of show he would have participated in.

The DVD release is going to be a rather bareboned product, probably no extras at all, but I recall some of these shows being interesting.....though all of those anthology shows from the 80's start to merge together in my aging mind: Tales From The Crypt, Tales From The Darkside, Amazing Stories, The New Twilight Zone, Creepshow (OK, that was a movie), Creepshow II (OK, that was....uh....never mind), etc. etc. etc.

-TODD

faith and Vietnam
Cindy wrote:

"I was thinking of it as a large, powerful forwardly mobile vessel that neither shrinks from combat nor pauses to examine every phosphorescent bead in the sea."

That image strikes us atheists as incredibly amusing, since we are neither organized into congregations nor able to enjoy network broadcasts, print publications, or stadium rallies -- never mind an authoritative, "bestselling" text -- that gather us together in fellowship and for mass political action.


"Christianity is all about the phosphorescent beads."

I loved Chris L's gloss on this one. I find the average Christian no more nor less self-centered than the rest of us, so one might just as well say -- as Chris basically does -- that "Christianity is all about the self." Not the divine, not the transcendant, not the greater good . . . but these things mostly as a reflection of the individual's fears, desires, and prejudices.

But I'm sure I've already said too much for this forum. To return to the subject, I know your wishes to "cure" Harlan's atheism spring from the purest respect and caring you can manage, but there comes a point where the repetition of such interests becomes little more than disrespect for the other person's reality.

What I REALLY wanted to comment on this morning, which connects to the Vietnam thread in a very roundabout way, is _The Zap Gun_, the 21st book by Philip K. Dick that I have read (and am currently reading). Now let me say that I'm hardly a rabid Dick fan; I don't think he's that sharp a writer with the language, his plots can get either too simplistic or too meandering, and his women are mostly pretty ghastly. But I was knocked for a loop by _Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?_ many years before "Blade Runner" came along, and I nearly always find his books interesting.

The title of this one did not sound promising, but it turns out to be a terrific caricature of Cold War politics and self-delusions -- published in 1965, set in 2004(!). What tickled me this morning was a little inside-joke that I'm afraid the passage of time is rapidly changing into a non sequitur. This morning on the bus to work, I read on the second page of Chapter Eleven a reference to "Wayne Morse Field," an air terminal in the New York area to which the protagonist is flown. That made me smile; the name meant reams back in 1965, especially to someone like me who was once represented by Morse in Congress, but I'm afraid there aren't too many readers younger than, say, 40, for which the name will have weight and meaning. (And of course in this age, during this election, that name should serve as a talisman for all anti-war activists and folks who think "flip-flopper" is either a red herring or not necessarily a bad thing in itself -- since Morse performed one of the great flip-flops of the mid twentieth century.)

Am I wrong?

So long
Catch you guys in a week or so --

I cannot wait for the 1985 revival of the Twilight Zone on DVD - provided, of course, it's the original broadcast version (with Charles Aidman's voice-over intact) as opposed to the chop-shop version that was created to make the half-hour syndication package. High time to replace my off-air VHS tapes of the show's original run. To say they're worn out would be polite. Some of those cassettes scream for mercy when I play them. (The one containing both "Paladin of the Lost Hour" and "Nightcrawlers" stopped screaming and died about three years ago.) So yes, DVD good. And Harlan's commentary? Another inch of frosting all on its own.

Calling all Lenny Bruce fans: Sony releases "Let The Buyer Beware" today, a 6 CD boxed set running over 7 1/2 hours, with 69 previously unreleased recordings, 10 previously unreleased selections from Lenny's personal tapes, and a handful of radio interviews (including an interview with Studs Terkel for WFMT in Chicago), lovingly topped off with an 80 page book. Mentioned in case anyone was out of the loop. Get it before the current climate of repression and political correctness kills it dead.

Harlan - The Subterranean Press web page for their magazine Issue #1 hasn't yet been updated with the news of your inclusion in the issue; apparently the first mention has been via e-mail to the people on the Subterranean mailing list. However, the URL for the magazine - which will probably be updated to reflect "Matinee Idyll" in the near future - is at:

http://www.subterraneanpress.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=SP&Product_Code=_subterranean001

I'd check back at the above URL in a couple of days to a week.

And finally, Harlan and Susan - Many happy (albeit belated) anniversary wishes, and a toast to many more. I'd have been here sooner, but it's my month to be the tardy duck.

Stop fat-fingering the keyboard!
Harlan,

Infoman's link to the website works. You just have to pay attention to the letters you're typing.

www.subterraneanpress.com

There's a link on the main page to Issue #1 and information on how you can order it for 80 smackers.

-Keith

Subterranean Press link
Harlan,
I received that Subterranean press message via e-mail and still have it in a folder. Would you like me to email it to you? Susan can then save it to a disk and/or the hard drive. Let me know.
Cheers,
Colleen

INFOMAN and NEAL JOHNSON:

Those are some of the most berserk URLs I've ever encountered; but anywhichway, they don't work for sh-t. Tried even the nine billion-character-long one Neal put in, and got N O W H E R E !

So...since you've wired me up with this gardyloo, and since I'd like to get copies of said pages for my files, er, uh, ahem, could one or the other of you figger out a path through the morass, so Susan can print out the necessaries for me?

Ever thine, Yr. pal, Harlan

A Trip You HAVE to Take...
I don't know what current policy is on posting URLs, but I couldn't resist this one. This guy at THE STRAIGHT DOPE has written of an experience that's funny enough, but his writing is so on the mark, he could publish this if he wanted to. It's not copywrited (copywritten?), so I'm not impinging on anyone's anything - but it's very funny, and I like to share when I can...

http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=160851

Eric: I agree. Avoiding Vietnam service was the sensible thing to do.

And yet now Bush and his chicken hawks expect OTHER people to go out and do what they themselves wouldn't. Politicians who have never seen or experienced war were anxious as hell to start one, to send OTHER people to fight it, suffer and die.

Then again, would Kerry have done differently? Having joined a a movement to end his own war, but still cast his vote to begin another one that he won't have to fight in. Who knows. . .

P.A., I see your points about Bush's amorality, but let's not forget that Viet Nam was an amoral war, once roundly condemned by most reasonable people. I for one am not going to cheer or praise anyone for serving in that sorry excuse for imperialism, nor will I condemn anyone for blowing it off, for whatever their personal reasons.

So it's a moral toss-up for me: Kerry the noble soldier who slaughtered Vietnamese in their own country to keep it safe for Nike, or Bush the shiftless draft-dodger who didn't fire a bullet so to save his own ass.

Public Service Announcement re. Ellison & Subterranean Magazine
ALL: Here's an email circulating about the story mentioned below (the link expired):
Harlan Ellison in Subterranean Issue #1

We've been sitting on this for just a little while, but couldn't wait any longer to share it with everyone.

Issue #1 of Subterranean Magazine will include a very rare Harlan Ellison short story, "Matinee Idyll," which is directly related to his sensational rock n roll novel, SPIDER KISS.

This is in addition to the exclusive chapbook by Thomas Ligotti which will only be available with the hardcover issue of the magazine.

We aren't ready to accept subscriptions to the magazine itself yet, but still have a limited number of hardcovers of issue #1 available for reservation.

In case you don't remember, here's the lineup for issue #1:

Stories by
-- Harlan Ellison
-- Joe R. Lansdale
-- Norman Partridge
-- Peter Crowther
-- Terry Metz
-- Mark Morris
-- Kealan Patrick Burke

An interview with Thomas Ligotti
A Previously Unpublished "Twilight Zone" teleplay by George R.R. Martin

The hardcover version of Subterranean #1 will be $80.

To order:
1) Visit the SubPress website
2) Use the Paypal link below
Check out Subterranean #1 at our website

Remember, shipping is FREE on all US Preorders.
Contact us via postal mail:

Subterranean Press
PO Box 190106
Burton, MI 48519

Visit the Subterranean Press Website
http://www.subterraneanpress.com/

Ellison sighting


I didn't see any sign that this announcement about Harlan's upcoming short story appearance in Subterranean #1, from Subterranean Press, had already been posted. So here you all are:

http://us.f144.mail.yahoo.com/ym/ShowLetter?MsgId=3268_2845459_23746_1130_11543_0_21861_49378_1100882507&Idx=0&YY=58625&inc=25&order=down&sort=date&pos=0&view=a&head=b&box=Inbox

regards,

neal

The Best and the Brightest
Is it the exception or the rule to have presidential candidates with substantial records of distinguished achievement? Many candidates have had years of public service, but how many in, say, the last 50 years have served in ways that set them apart from other governors, legislators, and public figures? Eisenhower, certainly. LBJ, perhaps. (And look how he turned out.) Any others? Bush & Kerry may be lackluster, but not atypically so.

hoo, boy

I just saw "Bush's Brain," the documentary about Karl Rove. It's the scariest, most depressing thing I've seen all year -- and it's remarkably calm in its presentation of what is really hairy information about what appears to be a truly amoral crusader.

I hope Kerry and his team have watched this, so they'll know what they're up against and can finally ramp up their efforts into something more muscular and quick.

I think it's fine that both men served, but I wish to hell Kerry would shut the fuck up about it and move on. He's not going to be elected because he was cap'n of the Littlest Swiftboat in the Navy.

Bush, on the other hand, is clearly a deserter who used bureaucracy and politics to not only escape, but get an honorable discharge. Sadly, he'd got four more years of experience in government than Kerry who - if he ran on his Senate tenure, would have a hard time competing with Bush...and Bush was an inept, criminal assclown.

Don't get me wrong, I'd vote for a fart in a plastic bag over Bush. But I'm disappointed the best anyone has to oppose him is this dork with a questionable record, nothing new to offer and little to no connection with us "l'il peoples".

Adding my own .02

Please forgive the typos in my last post. I actually posted it half in sleep. I have very little recollection of writing it.

Steve Dooner

Eric: I do care what Kerry and Bush did during the Vietnam era, because it's still relevant today. If Bush hadn't started a war while cutting veterans' benefits and extending reservists' active duties, then it might not matter so much. We are exhorted to "support our troops" by a man who went AWOL when it was his turn, and whose legislation has shown a marked LACK of support for our troops.

Add to that the fact that Team Bush has the nerve to disparage Kerry's service, when he was decorated and did serve in a combat role, and we get an overall picture of sickening hypocrisy that reflects an actual scorn for the soldiers who defend their country. When asked why he didn't serve, Cheney said, "I had other priorities." I suppose the 50,000 Americans who died there also had other priorities, but they served anyway.

Just my $0.02,
PAB

Lee, so happy to see you back here! I had wondered aloud a few times where you'd landed, and you're only just across the lake from me. Where in Ontario?

A week ago I'd have suggested you hop the brand new fast ferry from Toronto, but as of a few days ago the thing is in dock indefinitely because the Canadian American Trasportation folks are in debt up to their eyeballs.

Best of luck in your new home!! Be sure to check out the Stratford Festival.

Anti-Bush Videogame
In this epic anti-Bush videogame, which comes complete with lengthy media
clips and regular time-outs for documentary material (!) a small team of
insurgents storms the evil forces of the Republican White House, defeating
a series of greedy pigs and descending into the land of the Deficits.

Your "lives" are various celeb figures: you start with the obese retiree
He-Man, a cancer-ridden Mr. T and a much-emaciated Hulk Hogan, but as you
move on, and survive, you pick up more formidable allies to take the point
as this first wave falls.

As with most martial-arts videogames, there are tougher and tougher bosses
at the end of each level.

I got Howard Dean and his "killer scream" deep into the bowels of the enemy
stronghold, where he battled a copulating George Sr and Barbara who kept
popping out new Bush siblings to conquer America.

I got killed when my Christopher Reeve, defender of stem-cell research,
was defeated in an epic aerial battle with Paris Hilton, evil supporter
of the elimination on the estate tax.

All this to a screeching hard-rock soundtrack.

It's all quite rude, far more extensive than you would ever guess (I think
I got four levels into it, and there seem to be more than thirty), and amazing
in how frequently it works out ways to digress into detailed statistical
analyses of the issues.

http://www.emogame.com/bushgame.html

The IBM Selectric Typewriter Circa 1970

As for the "obvious forgery" stuff, we have to take special care not to be lead around by Karl Rove and the Republican Disinformation Brigade. Several serious newspapers and even the "expert" who originally questioned the authenticity of the memos have all admitted that an IBM Selectric typewriter could have typed the memos with the spacing and the superscript "th".

Would that the media had attended to the Swift boat liars as much as they tried to dismiss the obvious truth about G. W. Bush's record as a military deserter!!

O, how those young man in Vietnam must have appreiciated that folks like Bush felt that others should do the dying for him.

As for the Republican hatefest, well, all I can say is that it worked. The great detestable herd out there will apparently respond to the mixture of fear, hatred racism and aggression that was the Republican convention--I suppose its what Jesus would want them to do. After a week of hypocrisy and exploutation of September 11th, Bush naturally rose in the Polls.

If you can't tell from the tone of this post, I am fairly sick with it all. I had to respond, but I won't be remarking on politics again. I'm sorry. This all disgusts me to much.

Steve Dooner

Dragoncon
Just wanted to say it was nice to meet you guys, too. Thanks for coming! Also thanks to Harlan and Susan for getting me a pass (because as much as I love 'em there is no way in hell I would have paid actual cash money to navigate that circus) and for the fabulous foot massager which I am enjoying as we speak.

I have pics from the Con including a few of the Webderlanders and I'll get them posted this week. If you guys have any (I know Barney had the digital camera going for at least a shot of him with some fly honeys), I'll be happy to add them to the directory when I slap mine up.

Welcome back Lee, and Fugawi's unite!
Lee,

Welcome back, was wondering where/when you'd surface. Glad to know you've survived another Fugawi maneuver. I'm about to make one more myself (yes indeed, moving house *AGAIN* here in country) and it's an encouragement to see the strength of our clan!

Cheers
Peg

LEE,

Welcome back. I'm sure I'm far from being the only one who has missed your perspicacious and humane voice here in the Pavilion. Congratulations on your successful relocation, especially across such a distance. Sorry you missed the party in Atlanta -- it was a gas. In any case, it's good to have your virtual self back among us.

Best regards,
Steve J.

The family Thompson has finally deployed parachutes and soft-landed without losses in balmy Ontario for a five to seven year stay. Sixty-five hundred miles by plane, train and automobile. Bonjour, M. Reeston ! Je suis arrivé chez toi!

Thought of Frank while sitting for six hours in the Cincinatti airport, after missing my connection to Greenville SC. Five small kids twenty hours into the trip, whacked out under airport benches in various positions of exhausted collapse. Mom and Dad sitting vigil, sucking on Starbucks, listening distractedly to the caffiene sing.

Thought of Harlan and the Webderland crew as I passed through Atlanta to pick up a vehicle and drive on to Canada. Cryin’ shame that. I was Right There in Atlanta, only two weeks too early. So I changed my oil at Fat Matt’s and rolled on.

Now I’ve settled us into our new home, and the computer’s on-line again.

I look forward to reading back into the archives to see what’s been going on here.

I’m glad to be back.

The larger question about all this forgery nonsense is are we going to continue to obsess on what candidates for office did decades ago. If so, we aren't going to get many good candidates for office.

Whatever Bush and Kerry did in the 70s is pretty irrelevant to the race at hand. I would sure hate to be judged by some of the things *I* said and did in the 70s, as well as the 80s...people need to be given a break. I don't care if Bush dodged or fucked up his military service, nor do I care if Kerry was a hero or a puss in Viet Nam. And I'm pretty distressed that a lot of my fellow Americans seem to think it's so important.

We'll get what we deserve. Just like Rome...a series of weak-ass emperors that presided over the long decline.

Cindy,

I would rephrase it as saying that Atheism is about seeing the phosphorescent beads and thinking, "My, they're beautiful." Christianity is about seeing the phosphorecent beads and thinking, "My, they're beautiful, they must have been made just for me." :)

Dragoncon
It was so great to meet Webderlanders at Dragoncon. Douglas, Steve and Gina, Keith, Roger, Rick, Tim, James and especially Barney, it was so great to be able to place faces with names. I'm glad I was able to meet y'all and sorry I didn't get to say goodbye. Trying to be in too many places at the same time doesn't work.
Mr. Ellison's lectures were absolutely great. I heard some stories I'd never heard before and laughed more than I had in a long time.
Those of you who left on Monday had the right idea. My flight back to South Carolina was cancelled on Tuesday. Since I discovered, when I got back, that South Carolina had torrential rains and tornados on Tuesday, it was probably a good thing.
Anyway, it was a great con and I hope to meet up with y'all again in the future.

debbie

Egg on my face dept. A few days ago, I said those memos regarding Bush's service were a "pretty obvious forgery."

Here's what's up. People have been going back and forth on the memos, with the Bush stalwarts claiming that they're forgeries, and Democrats vindicating their authenticy. A lot of the chater's pretty much speculation and beside the point-- lots of thrashing about tab stops and what a user is likely to have done, and citations of typewriters that could do proportional spacing, superscript THs and Times Roman fonts.

Still, I tried the do-it-yourself thing with Microsoft Word, and found one item which works against the originals being forgeries. There's an incidence of "111" which isn't spaced properly. Apparently, the typist used the lower-case "l" to signify the digit One. But, when I did this,the three L's were tightly spaced together-- but the original had larger spaces, as though the lower-case l's had been replaced with Courier-font 1's throughout.

And if someone were forging this, I can't imagine why they'd take the time to do this particular tweak, and still let the memo look so much like a word-processed product.

So, I have to take back my "obvious forgery" comment.

I know this ain't exactly germane tothe current TZ

Deb, tell Todd that he owes me a beer..lol

Cindy, welcome back love. How did you like the hate fest that was your Republican convention?

Kisses.

Hiya Barnie,

I wasn't looking at atheism as a battleship designed to sink converts. I was thinking of it as a large, powerful forwardly mobile vessel that neither shrinks from combat nor pauses to examine every phosphorescent bead in the sea.

Christianity is all about the phosphorescent beads.

I've missed you, buddy o' mine. If you were here, I'd climb up on a table and hug your neck.
:)
yer pal,
Cindy

REPLY TO PARMA DOUG NEAR PAINESVILLE

No.

Great news about the Twilight Zone DVD set. I'm really looking forward to it. The commentary is going to be a blast to hear. Any chance "Crazy Like a Soup Sandwich" will be included on one of those sets?

Thanks for the pop-up suggestions, gang. Though I've always had virus protection, I guess these programs are just not considered viruses. I'm already dabbling with the Lavasoft product thanks to some of you, and I have noticed a nice reduction.

Frank, I'm surprised, you actually found the only bus in Phoenix. This ain't a public transportation town, bucko, get a car.....there's no humidity so it will never rust. And don't go believing all those signs about the Light Rail project that will be going up over the next few years; ain't going to be of much value when all is said and done, but it sher might be pretty.

So, are you here to stay, or just trading one desert city for another?

Harlan, as an afficianado of DVD commentaries, I must say that there is nothing more exciting than knowing we've got a few coming from you. Any chance of a special edition The Oscar??? (just kidding). Too bad there's no filmed version of Nackles. They could have paid you to perform a reading of the script on the DVD with accompanying illustrations.

-TODD

really terrible analogies
*** Cindy *** Hey kiddo. We had this discussion a couple of years back. You were asking how atheism worked and I posted something that seemed to appease you and even make sense to you at the time but that lesson has been lost. Atheism is PASSIVE, not active. It does not proselytize, nor does it seek converts. The notion of "converts" itself becomes ideologically absurd. Don't think of a battleship trying to sink other ships. Think of a kayak trying to leave as small a wake as possible and you come MUCH closer to understanding how the atheism deal works.

It is not a system of beliefs but rather the absence of rigorous dogma.

Which doesn't prevent me from wishing Harlan and Susan a belated anniversary. My 23rd anniversary starts in about 17 hours. Pikers.

**Harlan** A package hits the mail Monday or Tuesday.

- Barney

1985 TZ DVD Release
I'm thrilled to read about the DVD release for The Twilight Zone. Even more thrilled to read Harlan has done 2 hours of commentary on it! Paladin of the Lost Hour is one of my favorites from that show. I bought a Japanese laser disc of Paladin some time ago just to have a better copy than my 1985 off air videotape.

And of course I read the Twilight Zone Magazine version as well and the version that was printed in Universe 15. But the best version is the audio that Harlan recorded and released through the Record Collection.

This reminds me I have to renew my HERC membership!

I spoke to Robert Silverberg about his, "To See The Invisible Man" segment of the show at the Worldcon and he seemed very happy with the way it turned out.

***Frank: Are you here in AZ????????????????

HOLD THE BUS !!!!!!!!

The woman with whom I spoke, two days ago when I was at the Image building, who WAS represented to me by my liaison as THE ACTUAL PERSON assembling the TZ CD package, is not the man several of you have posted as being Director of Marketing. I think the answer to this discrepancy is that he may be the head honcho, and she is the line producer.

So. Hold off circularizing ANYONE till Monday, when I'll call Ana, my liaison, and ask her to give me the name of the woman with whom I had the packaging conversation. Then you can do as you are impelled. But a few to the guy wouldn't hurt, either, I suppose. And do heed David's warning ... not too many all clustered together, or they'll be on to us, youse guys.

Affectionately, and I'll see you Monday, right here,

Yr. pal, Harlan

I'm not really sure why everyone is trying to contact Image about the DVD sets (I haven't read all the posts, so maybe I'm wrong in my assumption, and I apologize), but if it's for release info, the sets are being released in two batches: one in late December '04 and the other in March '05.

Image Entertainment Marketing Director
I see Nick Lamer listed as Chief Financial Officer for Image Entertainment. And I though Mr. Ellison implied that the Director of Marketing was a woman (without mentioning a name). Are we inundating the wrong person with mail about the Twilight Zone set? I hope not, but I thought that I'd better ask; however, I haven't been able to confirm the identity of the Director of Marketing.

Martin,

Spurious aphorisms positing vaporous demarcation of philosophic differentiation shift gradients of cerebration toward increasing gain in negative sloped movement toward gibberish. While pseudo-intellectual ramblings augment internalized perceptions of relevance, degradations of reputation following incomprehensible babble lead to marked decrease in probabilities of post perusal.

Ix ipsit loquitur. Let the good times roll.

Happy Anniversary to y'all!

Harlan, this is so great! I have it at last!
Here is my secret weapon to sink your Bismark of Atheism; SINCERELY, I ask you to look into the face of your bride and you will see how much God loves you. He gave you Susan.

She's a treasure and you are too,

:)
Still your friend-- and Susan's, with affection and gratitude that she came into your life and gave you the peace, contentment and love that you have always deserved.

Cindy

P.S. Nineteen more and ever after.

Wither Realism
Maus is crudely drawn didactic propaganda that only corrupts the genre it purports to elevate. Meaning that it's safe for yuppies to read along with the latest diatribe in the Nation or The Independent and the rest of the politically correct paraphernalia of the little cafe. And it's offensive to cat lovers as well. I remember a James Agee review of a film dealing with the holocaust where he says something like it's as subtle as saying I'm against torturing children, and it must take a lot of courage to say that...Genre bound? I first heard of Ellison through King's Dance Macabre along with most of the other SF writers I have since loved, but here is King and Stephen R.Donaldson finishing up their life works with books of genuine breath and nary an original short story from Harlan. It's King of course who is published in the New Yorker, Esquire, etc. Whatever you think of them they're not "genre". Fear of genre is just the disparagement of Fantasy that a menagerie of ideologues associates with escapism from Roger Kimball to Noam Chomsky. But as the immortal J.R.R. Tolkien has written there is escape FROM reality and escape TO reality and great Fantasy is realer then reality. Something Michael Chabon explorers in his Escapist comics. And who is always worried about escape but a jailer.

Pop-Ups
I view the Internet with Mozilla's Firefox which blocks all pop-ups and warns of any site that wants to put shit on my computer.

All my usual plug-ins from Netscape are there and it doesn't clog up the RAM. That's probably why I missed all the crap Eric experienced.

Another animation legend has left us.
If you are appreciative of the classic cel animation distributed by Disney Studios, you will join me in mourning the death at 92 of Frank Thomas, the 8th of Walt Disney's "Nine Old Men" to pass from this life. Ollie Johnson is the remaining member of that elite group of unique talents. Their like will not be seen again.
http://www.newsfromme.com/archives/2004_09_09.html
http://www.cartoonbrew.com/archives/2004_09.html#000446
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0858826/

Susan & Harlan: Belated Best Wishes on your 19th Anniversary. Laurie and I will reach that benchmark in April.

Harlan: TZ Commentary!!! The amazing thing to me is that it wasn't the first thing on the minds of the producers of the DVD set. I vividly remember your comments on Danny Kaye's work in "Paladin of the Lost Hour." WOW! Hurry December 28th!

Other popup blockers
I just use the google toolbar myself...

http://toolbar.google.com

Stops popups, has a nice form fill-in utility, and oh yeah, you can search Google with it.

Windows XP machines with SP2 installed also have a pop-up blocker built-in.

Julian

It's pop-ups, not spyware
Spyware programs like Ad-Aware and Spybot S&D will not do anything to stop sites that pop up windows with ads. To stop pop-ups you need a pop-up blocker. I personally use Stop-the-Pop-Up. I like it because it has an option which allows you to COMPLETELY stop pop-ups by not opening ANY new windows unless you hold down the CONTROL key. You have to get used to holding CONTROL when you WANT to open
http://www.sureshotsoftware.com/stopthepop/

There are other pop-up blockers out there. Pop-ups, however are just an annoyance. If you are not running Ad-Aware or a similar spyware detection/removal program, you really should be. As in you probably have TONS of crap loaded on your system that you do NOT want running.

Todd and Deb, what do the pop ups say? I'd look on the control panel; go to the add/remove programs and check to see if there are any weird things installed there. If you cannot get rid of it, it may be malware, which can be impossible to get rid of, without hardcore hacking skills. There are sites that give complex removal advice, or at worst, you can redo the whole windows install again.

By the way, Arizona buses suck.

HE DVD

Don't let's all assault poor Nick at Image all at once, or it'll be obvious we're all coming from the same place and notification.

Take some time; contact him in a week or three; spread out the joy. Then we'll be more likely to get results.

***Thanks to all for your help about pop-up preventing software. It's getting so I can't get ANY work done. The pop-up has suddenly become overwelming! It's gotta stop!
***Harlan's Twilight Zone news is very exciting! Happy Anniversary--a little late.

Thinking Good Thoughts:

Happy anniversary to Harlan and Susan! May the next Eighteen be as joyous. Without the legal hassels.

Chuck

Happy Anniversary
Congratulations, Susan and Harlan, on your 18th wedding anniversary! Hope you headed off in the Packard and celebrated in style.....

Cheers, ears!

Rob & Paul,
'Jon Manzo's Brit-Pack'

"You Don't Know Me..."
NATHAN: "You Don't Know Me, I Don't Know You" was included in "Sleepless Nights in the Procrustean Bed." I've seen the title for as little as ten bucks on Abebooks. Or maybe HERC has a copy. Susan?

Also well worth your while: "An Edge in My Voice." Easy to find, and contains some of Harlan's best essays.

HARLAN AND SUSAN: Happy Anniversary! 19 years together, eh? Not bad! Just goes to show, the right woman can build an honest man out of all sorts of raw materials (g).

A Harlan Ellison DVD commentary.

FINALLY. YES. THANK YOU, YE GODS.

Now, will someone please get to work on that "Boy and His Dog" Special Edition?

I had heard about an essay Harlan Ellison wrote called "You Don't Know Me, I Don't Know You" (printed in The Magazine of Fantasy and Science Fiction, July 1977) and wondering if it was reprinted in any of his books.

I also was wondering if anyone could offer any reading recommendations. I really like Harlan Ellison's essays; what essay books like his are out there that I may enjoy?

Thank you

Director of Marketing at Image


just did some legwork ya'll.

Director of Marketing at Image is Nick Lamer

nlamer@image-entertainment.com <--note: that is a HYPHEN

switchboard at Image 818-407-9100

at your service,

neal

Chris--Thank you.

Lonegungirl--OK.

Thank you for your kind anniversary wishes.

All best--Susan

Twilight Zone boxed set
Great! Another reason to look forward to reviewing it (I have the assignment at scifiweekly.com.)

Warning, probably unnecessary in this context: The 1985 set is NOT to be confused with the set just released this past week, which collects the sadly uninspired Forrest Whitaker version.

UPDATE ON THE 1985 TWILIGHT ZONE CD BOXED SET

Some time ago, we all had a brief discussion here about the forthcoming (28 December 04) boxed set of CDs proffering, for the first time in America, the 1985-86 TWILIGHT ZONE episodes on which I was the Creative Consultant for the revived CBS-tv series. It was opined by someone that Image Entertainment was including on this release a group of commentaries by those who had worked on the show, as well as several of the directors and writers.

Several people noted that I might be included, and I was forced to comment by posting here, that I would not. As it's a matter of Webderland record, you can go back into the archive (Barney, give'em a date) and read that exchange. But...

ANNOUNCEMENT: In the wake of subsequent intervention by Jim Crocker, my friend and the then-Producer of TZ, I went to the Image studios yesterday, with Susan, and recorded more than two hours of voiceover commentary for my four TZ episodes--"Paladin of the Lost Hour," "Gramma," "Shatterday" and "One Life, Furnished in Early Poverty."

I think you will find these comments interesting and arresting. If you feel like it, you might e.mail the Director of Marketing at Image Entertainment in Chatsworth, California, and advise her that featuring the name may well sell a few thousand more copies of the package (rather than keeping it a typographical secret as do most assemblers of CD product).

Just thought I'd let you know that I WILL now be on the set.

Yr. pal, Harlan

another cool movie

The DocumentaryFilms.net Web site has posted my review of "Festival Express" with a pretty funky layout:

http://www.documentaryfilms.net/Reviews/FestivalExpress/index.htm

US
HARLAN, SUSAN: Let me give my wishes that your anniversary was and will be considered wholly unmemorable. Unmemorable, because it was and will have been just one blissfully happy moment in a sea of them and just one anniversary out of tens and tens of them.

BRIAN: Interesting. I've just looked at the memos in question. The two which DO show the superscript do not seem to me to have been Word-generated. Look at the height of the superscripted letters in regard to the other characters, then type out someting similar in Word. Word places one-third of the "th" above the line, whereas the memos show it as being one-half of it over the line. And the industrial typewriters I had at school had a superscripted "th" key, so ...

Also, on the two signed memos, I just don't see what the people are talking about--the signatures go over the lines of type. Besides, bitmapping the signature would allow me to place it wherever I wanted, with overlap as I pleased, so it's a specious argument.

The memos may well be fake, but it's the CONTENT which is suspicious, rather than the composition.
(and one has to wonder why the White House would distribute them anyway, without questioning their authenticity.)

Those who Pay No Attention to the Past Department: Anyone been following the recent revelations about George Bush's Air Force service? I'm no fan of the man, and there's ample evidence that he did skip out on duty. But the memo circulated by _60 Minutes_ is, well, a pretty obvious forgery. And it ties in with our occasional discussions about forgetting the past.

The memo that _60 Minutes_' experts pronounced as authentic was ostensibly written in 1972. Yet it's written in a proportional font-- Times Roman, actually. There weren't many typewriters that could do such things in those days-- let alone ones used for routine memos. Just in that point alone, I'd think that this was a forgery by someone who either a) didn't realize that Windows didn't exist in 1972, or b) wanted to have the thing be recognizable as a forgery to discredit Bush's critics.

There's a point when a division is referred to as the 111th, with the "th" printed in a superscript font. A normal typewriter couldn't do this-- it could raise the letters a half-line up, but it couldn't _scale_ the letters down in size. But this _is_ an automatic feature in Microsoft Word.

Some people have noted that a line in the officer's signature ends very abruptly when it reaches the typed portion of the name-- abruptly, as in a squared-off end. This isn't how a pen-line ends... but it is how a _bit-map_ of a signature would be cropped.

I can understand that people out there'd be stupid enough to _make_ such an inept forgery. But who the hell are the "experts" who certified this as genuine at _60 Minutes_?

The memos are downloadable as PDFs at http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/09/06/politics/main641481.shtml

Un-fucking-believable.

Todd:

I'd add Spywareblaster 3.2 to the list to keep spyware and malware at bay. It's an excellent ActiveX blocker, keeping spyware code from riding in to your hard drive on the back of any downloads you might make. Simply install, set up, and update with regularity. It becomes active with boot-up.

It's freeware and here:

http://www.javacoolsoftware.com/spywareblaster.html

You should be advised that many spyware blockers actually send spyware of their own for user tracking reference. Spybot and Lavasoft do not. Caveat Emptor is the name of the game.

XP Service Pack 2 has a good pop-up blocker installed in its download. You've tried it yet?

Scott

Strunk & White was a requirement of my high school U.S. History teacher; barring those times when I'd lost it in one move or another, I've always had it close at hand though I've never used it to edit fiction. I've read and re-read On Writing, and am currently reading King's Danse Macabre. I've also clipped a piece written by Elmore Leonard on his rules of writing. These two may not be the pinnacle of writerly aspirations - certainly I'd rather my writing had more in common with Harlan's breadth and adaptability rather than find myself genre bound - but I can't argue with their clarity. I think that's going to be where I will need the most help, especially at first.

Hayakawa is new to me, as is Zinsser - I'll check around for both.

*grin* Do I get any points for having the Deluxe Transitive Vampire?

By the way--can we enclose the Rabbit Hole check in the same envelope with the KICK response card?

Thanks.

Susan,


I'm the Christopher Long at the top of your list and I don't want any return of my donation.


thanks,

chris

First, many happy returns of the day (the 7th, that is) to Susan and Harlan. I was too fatigued on Tuesday to remember to mention that in my post, what with fifteen hours of travel behind me. Please remind me to break up my trip to the next con, the better to avoid colds like the one I have today.

James, I promise to let you find me next year. I think I'll carry a "James Palmer" placard, like a limo driver at the airport. By the way, if you're ever up here on the Alaska Highway, let me know ahead of time. I'll housesit for you. (A foot of snow fell the morning after I came home.)

Roger, I'm now sure that I saw you at several of HE's appearances. Unfortunately (for me, anyway), I was looking for a James/Debbie/Keith, not a Roger, and I was too shy to ask you whether you visited the site. Hell, if I hadn't recognized Steve, I don't think I'd have met any Webderlanders. No, anonymity ain't that grand.

Let me point out to any possible doubters that everything in Barney's last post is the God's own truth, save that he is 6'2" only when not carrying his head under his right arm.

D.

p.fuckin'.s. If you're new to posting here, don't confuse the "Retrieve Last Post/Save" button with the "Save" button. Unless you really like typing.

Todd,

Two products that I use in conjunction with each other (one catches stuff the other misses) are AdAware, from Lavasoft, and SpyBot Search and Destroy from Patrick Kolla. They're both good, free, and have kept me Ad and Spyware free.

You can find them on the web at:

http://www.spybot.info/en/index.html
and
http://www.lavasoft.com/

Other tips include switching from Internet Explorer (ActiveX is the worst critter ever to escape the MicroSnot labs) to one of the Netscape/Mozilla products that are available. If you're using Windows XP make sure to download (or order the free CD) SP2, and get a good anti-virus/internet security suite (Trend Micro's PC'cillin 2004 is top rated and well recommended).

(Funny, my LINUX box never has spyware...I wonder why ;) )

Good luck,
Andrew

The one I use seems to do a pretty good job. Also it is free.

www.panicware.com

Gang, do any of you have a suggestion for a good Pop-Up Ad Killer software? This past week has been hell, and it's time I try to dig something up that will bring internet sanity back to myself and Deb.

-TODD

For what it's worth: King's book is great on 2 levels. The first part may be the only straight autobiography we will ever get. The second half is a very readable guide "On Writing", which he also touts Strunk and White. Another name that comes to mind, as far as language goes is SI Hayakawa. If you're a word geek, check out some of his writings. He's dead, but I'm sure most of his stuff can easily be found. I had to read some books by him back in my old college days, but no specific title comes to mind. Sorry-look it up!! For you crusty typewriter geeks: I saw a report on Drudge earlier that the CBS Bush memos may have been forged because of some "proportional sized type". I seem to recall older typewriters coming in pica and elite styles which had something to do with character spacing. I've forgotten which was which, but I'm sure they existed in the 1972-74 time line which the memos were written. This may be much ado about nothing, but I always like to have some facts on hand when discounting the Net's dumpster diving "journalist".

There's a classic guide to writing (billed as such) titled "On Writing Well" by William Zinsser. This book has loads of interesting information on simplicity, clutter, style, words, usage, and more.

Hope this helps.

DC

Books about writing
Strunk and White is the classic and absolutely indispensible. I also found Stephen King's ON WRITING to have some very good ideas about writing and especially re-writing, editing. Others may have a different opinion, but I find it cool and user friendly.

I hope Elijah owns this book
If it's editing Elijah from Ypsilanti is worried about then I have one more scrap of advice.

Now aside from my Ellison collection I have two books in my library that are indispensible: number two is of course the Bradbury book I mentioned earlier, number one (and everybody, writer or not, should own this) is Strunk and Whites "The Elements of Style."

That's all you need really.

Oh yeah, and WRITE! The more you do it the better it gets. Like exercise.

Johnny H.

19 years with Harlan. I'd think Susan deserves a Purple Heart for that run.

Love you guys.

HAPPY (BELATED?) ANNIVERSARY, SUSAN & HARLAN!

DTS:

Fault your lousy language: English. Christos, there are times when I can find it maddening. I wasn't really sure if you meant what I'd thought you meant when what you said...

Long and short, I went back and read your response to Elijah. As correct as mine, but with a bit more flourish that lead to confusion for me. Felt I was more editing than correcting.

Else, you're read 5X5...

Elijah: Happy to help, and you'll find most others are like that. Excessively helpful; one of those curses shared by those with wide-reaching intellects that seems to want to stay open for business more hours than your average 7-11.

Scott

awed by your responses
You folks are the greatest!

Dan and Tom, Shaolin Soccer on DVD already?!? Excellent - though I'm sorry to have missed it in the theater. Thanks much for letting me know.

DTS and Scott, thank you both for the 5x5 information and your unbelievably quick replies. It was like having an itch I couldn't quite reach...

John, Bob, DTS, Rick and Joseph - I'm flabbergasted by the advice and support. Thank you all very much! Your replies were so personable that I'm fighting a temptation to launch into a huge elaboration about what I'm doing and how what each of you said will impact me. It seems that'd be a poor expression of gratitude, though, so I'll duck this particular solipsism in favor of a generalized statement of relief that I'm not veering wildly off course. I am writing, it's exciting and terrific. I think what's really going to be a hoot, though, is editing. That task will be to my past experiences (editing essays), as a battleship is to a duck.

SCOTT ROWLAND found!

'' LOST'' PAYPAL CONTRIBUTORS TO KICK INTERNET PIRACY

During the lawsuit, people from the boards kindly contributed money to KICK via Rick Wyatt (and Paypal). Last month, we tried emailing the people listed below, to bring them up-to-date...only to find they seem to be lost. If any of you below are reading this, please contact us @ KICK Internet Piracy, Post Office Box 55935, Sherman Oaks, CA 91413. IMPORTANT: You need to send proof that you're the person who donated the money. A paypal receipt is essential, or similar good evidence.

To minimize the endless paperwork of these remunerations, if you are one of the many good-and-sweet folks who (for whatever unfathomable) reasons DO NOT WANT your contribution returned, please indicate that when you contact us.

CHRISTOPHER LONG
SCOTT JENNINGS
DOUGLAS THIGPEN
CHRIS SHERBACK
DEAN THOMAS
LANCE JOHNSON
MICHEL PHILLIPS
JAMES BIESTERFELD
ERNEST JARRETT
STEVE BROWN
BRIAN SCHULTZE
SCOTT MACMILLAN
WILLIAM DENNEHY
DEREK LAVERTU
JAY GILLESPIE
SCOTT ROWLAND
DOUGLAS LOOTS
CHRISTINE MAXWELL
ROBIN POWELL
LAURA COVELLO
STEVEN SCHEND
BRIAN PHILLIPS
SHAWN ROBARE
KENN FONG
JIM TANGUAY
RECIL CLEMENTS
CHRISTOPHER TURNER
DAVID VIOLINO
DAVID MADEO
DAVE SACERDOTE
CLIFF HOLLIS
REBECCA HIBBERT
ROBERT JOHNSON
DAVID JAMESON
STEVEN BUSCHMAN
MICHAEL J. AHLERS
JIM STERRETT
DARKHARP DESIGNS
SCOTT WEINER

Please contact us via the KICK address with your proof. Thank you!

Dragon*Con
Well, I see everyone made it back from Dragon*Con in one piece. I had a great time meeting Steven, Barney and Debbie, and of course chatting with Harlan about the weather down here. I'm sorry I didn't get to chat with Douglas and Rick, but perhaps next time. All in all, it was a good con. The costumes were excellent as always, and the patchouli stench was kept to a minimum. Ya'll come on back any time, and we'll do it again.

James

Writing Advice
Elijah,

Honestly man, whatever works for you is the best thing you can do. But maybe knowing that you aren't in bad company with this technique would help.

Katherine Dunn, National Book Award winning author of _Geek Love_ (run, don't walk to the nearest bookstore if you haven't read this one)writes whatever scene happens to come to her at the time she's writing. She usually produces a couple thousand pages, then pares it down to the best four or five hundred to make her book. One rewrite for integrity's sake and she's finished.

Me? I'll usually write my last line first, then pin it over my writing desk as a target for which to aim. If I start to meander, I look up to remind myself that I gotta get THERE!

I'm never sure how it's going to happen, but somehow it always does.

Most Important Revelation From Noreascon

ELF EARS HAVE COMPLETELY REPLACED SPOCK EARS!

Good night, everybody! I'm here all week! Tip your waitresses!

Steve Dooner

Writing advice
To Elijah Newton:

Pretty much the only writing advice I can give is to write in whichever way works best for you. If you find that writing scenes out of order works best, then do so. I would hope, however, that you at least have an idea of the story’s narrative, so that you can assemble them into some kind of coherent order in the end.

That’s not to say you just do some cutting and pasting, then print out the finished story. By writing scenes out of order, I’m sure you’re finding that as you further flesh out one scene, it requires you to go back and tweak another set earlier in the book, to make everything flow smoothly.

Wouldn’t it then be easier to go in chronological order? Perhaps, but not necessarily. I’m guessing that you’re writing those scenes that you’re sure (or reasonably sure) about first, saving the ones that are a bit more problematic for later. Were you to go in chronological order, you might run into writer’s block on a early scene and become delayed and/or discouraged. Now, there are various ways of dealing with writer’s block, and working on another scene is one of them- especially if that scene directly relates to the one that’s troubling you.

So, in short, if you feel this method is producing results for you, stick with it. On the other hand, if you feel the various scenes are just a pile of bricks without the mortar to hold them together, then you might want to try just writing a rough first draft of the story (being sure to hit key points to keep the story on track) from start to finish.

Using “The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn” as an example, the basic story is a boy and a fugitive slave on a river making their way out of slave territory into free territory. You might not know what’s going to happen (other than the fact that they’ll reach their destination), but you do know you want them to have specific adventures on the way. So you write it, being sure to hit those key points to keep you on track.

Then once you’ve something down on paper, you go back and re-read it and make improvements. You provide more in-depth descriptions of the environment, and flesh out your characters, as you get a better handle on who they are and what they want.

For myself, I find that creating characters in the early part of a story or novel is somewhat akin to a director casting an actor in a role. Again, using familiar characters as an example, let’s say we have a character named Clark Kent, who hates criminals and considers them a “superstitious, cowardly lot.” But wait, something’s not fitting there, and the more we develop the story, the more we realize that attitude better fits Bruce’s personality than Clark’s. So we give Bruce that mindset, even as the story’s development helps us determine the best role for Clark to play.

Hey, maybe he’s bitten by a radioactive spider and... Nah, that’s crazy. Well, we’d think of something eventually.

Finally, I recommend The Writer magazine, the BEST writing magazine extant. It’s been around since April, 1887 and you can pick up any issue from that date to the present and find articles that remain timeless. An article in the very first issue could’ve been written today, with very minor revisions.

Good luck.

Rick

P.S. Belated happy anniversary, Harlan and Susan

On Writing & Northern echoes
ELIJAH: Don't sweat the small stuff: if the writing is getting done, that's the most important part. But if it makes you feel better, the various writers I've spoken to over the years have all gone about it in different ways. And most interviews with John Irving that you might run across reveal that he wrote _The World According to Garp_ -- and quite a few other books -- in a nonlinear fashion, starting with the last chapter (and last line) first.
SCOTT REESTON: Thanks for clearing up that "5X5" question for us; I was obviously confused when I...said the same thing. (Insert rimshot here). What the heck would we do without our neighbors in the north and that echo effect?
Here's hoping you have a sense of humor.
--(Retired Specialist) DTS, formally of the 267th Signal Corps

Elijah:

The best advice I've ever received is "don't edit as you write," so it seems to me that you are going about it the right way. Just keep the words coming without looking back, whether it's in your 2 hr blocks or whatever (we all have our schedules and quirks and routines - for example, I rarely outline), and we have to do what works for us. There's plenty of time for editing the next day.

Good luck with the writing.

Bob

Shaolin Soccer was released in the US several months back, and appeared on DVD a few weeks ago.

Congrats on the anniversary; was mentioning to someone at Worldcon that I knew it was around now, since I recall Harlan saying at one point they'd married on the opening day of the NFL season.

19 and counting...
Harlan & Susan,

A very happy anniversary to you both!

Peggy

Hi guys. I made it back from DragonCon in one piece. I really hated to leave Sunday morning, but had driven the 950 miles from Iowa and had to get back to work Tuesday morning.I could have stayed until after Harlan's 1:00 panel on Sunday, but had promised my father I would stop and visit him on the way back home and the only way i could do that was to leave Sunday morning. I really enjoyed visiting with all the Webderlanders I met. Barney you really looked great having lost a few pounds since the last time you and i had chatted at a appearance of Harlan's. For those who have never attended a Dragoncon it is a very unusual experience. The panels and merchandisers are in the 2 hotels side by side, and at this convention you have your authors and your comic book guys, you have the folks playing all the board games, all the movie and tv stars at the signing tables and all the costumed individuals trying to coexist in the same space. As Harlan can attest, some are only interested in only what they are doing, and have the sound levels of the music turned up way above the legal limit for only their enjoyment at their party. When you have people running screaming from the room with their ears bleeding, it is not too hard to figure the music might be a little loud. At any rate i had a terrific time. I'm into double figures now for attending presentations that Harlan was appearing at, mostly at conventions, but some times at colleges where he was the only speaker.Harlan and Susan it was great to see you both. My only regret was not asking Harlan what we can expect in the next 6 months or so in new works or some new editions of older material. I am looking forward in particular to the next edition of Dream Corridor. I have read comics all my life and have especially enjoyed all the recent material and the older comics I've been able to dig up that Harlan was involved with.Bye for now.

Elijah in Ypsilanti
Reguarding #2 on your posted list. My personal cure for writers block and lack of enthusiasm is a wonderful book called "ZEN IN THE ART OF WRITING" by Ray Bradbury.

His intro to the Best Of Henry Kuttner is inspiring as well.

Best of luck to you!

(Aside) Nineteen years!? Sheesh! He must keep her sedated or something.

Johnny H.

Obviously, I wasn't at Dragoncon. Coincidentally, last niht, I was at a meeting about the Media panels at the upcoming Philcon. And while we have some good ideas, I'd like to know if there were any really cool media-oriented panels at DragonCon which we could er, um, "appropriate."

I did have a really fun idea for a panel which I'll describe elsewhere, in the forums.

Happy Anniversary, Harlan and Susan. So... ya thinkin' about any kids yet, or'd you want to get the careers on a steady track first?

Actually, "5X5" is old military protocol to confirm quality of reception of radio signal and message. Based on a scale of 1 - 5, the first "Five" determined the receiver's clearness of signal, the second "Five" was a determination of the transmission's loudness in reception, "5" being best quality in both cases. "Loud and Clear" works as well.

Basic radio protocols course for us pilots-in-training.

Scott

I know now why they call it "Dragon*Con." If you participate in even a fraction of the events you will inevitably be draggin' by the end of the weekend. (I still don't know the meaning of the asterisk in the middle, though -- unless it represents the way your ass puckers the first time you see the schedule, and realize how much you will have to miss because you can't be in two places at once.) Early on I made the decision to essentially make it a Harlan*Con. I figure that you dance with who brung you, and there's no doubt that it was my fondness for Harlan's work that brought me to Atlanta. So, with a shrug, I gave 99 percent of the programs a pass, attending a grand total of only three events that didn't involve Harlan. My wife was more adventurous and eclectic in her choices, but saw less of Harlan.

It was a pleasure and a privilege to meet some of the Webderland crowd in person. As I anticipated, each and every one turned out to be delightful company. I first encountered Barney. As he was the one Webderlander whose picture I had seen, I had been on the lookout for him. When I caught a glimpse of a familiar figure at the Friday night radio play performance wearing a Mark Twain T-shirt, I knew I had struck paydirt. The next morning I encountered James Palmer and his wife, Keith Cramer, and Debbie, who had just come from the parade. Douglas (Demonocrites) Harrison and I hooked up at lunchtime on Saturday. On Sunday, at one of Harlan’s book signings, I finally encountered the man himself, Rick Wyatt. Sunday evening, five of us went to dinner (Keith, Douglas, Debbie, my wife Gina, and myself) in between the “Warm and Fluffy etc. etc. Interlude With Harlan Ellison” and the evening cabaret. As I anticipated, the Webderlanders, to a person, turned out to be as articulate and engaging in person as they are here online. Even more so, in fact.

Harlan, although battling a pesky case of laryngitis, was in fine form throughout the weekend. They only had to call the cops on him once and, so far as I know, he was only told off by an irate fan once. He was unfailingly gracious with those who asked for signatures, even when the line of supplicants extended back to somewhere north of Marietta.

Oh, and Barney, the bear was just fine until you spiked his drink with PCP and then sneaked up on him wearing that borrowed Predator costume. Kinda left that part out, didn’t you?

Steve J.

Geeky Geekerson [tm] Flys to DragonCon or,
I Should Have Asked For A Pony!

I say I should have asked for a pony because I got every other thing I had on my Fantasy wish list so why not that as well.

Harlan will be amused to know that this is the 2nd attempt at a DragonCon post as the 1st was lost in a blackout here. So it ain't just you.

Had safe and easy flights both ways. Took an early flight out saving myself a 5 hour wait at the airport. Bags were never searched and I caught the emergency exit row on the way back. Travel tip - if you are 6' or over, volunteer for this gig. On most planes it means extra leg room and you usually sit alone. I'm 6'2" so this is like a free 1st class upgrade minus the hot towel.

Yes, there is a Bush slamming post somewhere in the archives. I'll post a date the next time I post if someone doesn't beat me to it. I scanned the Ellison interview and there are some flubs and I appreciate the compliment that I'm the go to guy on that but it's going to have to stand as I'm coming back from D*C '04 with 2 VERY big things on my plate. More about those later when many many details are worked out and things have copyrights after their names.

I was very happy to meet another contingent of the Webderland Crew. New friends off the top of my head were Roger, Douglas, Debbie, Steve & Gina and Keith Cramer. Roger was selling children and small arms in lobby. Steve and Gina brought along a bear on a unicycle they had named Irving who they said was friendly. This proved to be wrong. Horribly wrong. But the Merriot has an interesting pattern in their carpet and most of those stains will come out eventually. Debbie, well, she's just Debbie until she pulls you aside and does that trick where she pulls down the skin by her eye and you realize she's just a bunch of light wearing a Debbie suit to fit in. Keith is a different kettle of fish. keith has a look about him that says "I have just gotten away with some particularly tricky and illegal business". The reason for this is because he just has. Keith has a book which looks like a date book or an address book but is filled with cribbed single spaced writing. Upon close examination one sees these are dates and locations with notations as to when statute limitations run out and when it might be safe to return. Not the sort of thing safe to trust to memory, eh, Keith? And Douglas has a funny foot dragging limp he turns on and off at will and his cufflinks have the initials KS, whatever that means.

I only stepped on one persons cape although I did get poked with wings a lot. While fandom as a whole has a certain look, and by day 4, a certain smell, I have to say that as a group they were looking somewhat fitter than 5 or 6 years ago.

As for the costumes - I'm done making fun of them. While I don't see myself doing the costume thing I decided by the second day that for whatever reason this time I really got a kick out of it. These folks are mostly amazing. The work and the attention to detail would shame a Mummer and all for 15 minutes of quasi-fame and a little goth chick grab-assing. I'm impressed.

Did I get some good pictures? Oh, you just wait folks. I got some great shots.

Rick - I owe you a letter. It's on my putting-out-fires-now that-I'm-home-to-do list. Soon.

Call this part 1. Gotta go. - Barney

5 by 5, and other topics
ELIJAH: "5 by 5" is an old military piece of slang; but it _does_ have connections to radio operations. The best explanation of its origins I've ever seen is on the "Origins of Hamspeak" website. Here's a quote from that site: "From an old Military Radio Telephone Procedure Manual (Circa 1953). In all probability, these came from the Q-Signals of yore where QRK was -- What is the readability of my signals ? Answer: The readability of your signals is ... (1 to 5). And QSA -- What is the strength of my signals ? Answer was: The strength of your signals is ... (1 to 5). Webmaster note: I believe the oft heard "You are Q5 is a voice equivalent to the CW QRK 5. And receiving you 5 by 5 is voice equivalent to QRK 5 and QSA 5"
Now when people in the military -- or those in civilian life who've seen enough movies -- want to say something is up to speed, operating at full capacity, "squared away" or working as it should, they say "5 by 5" -- even if they are _not_ part of the Communications Corps. If someone ever tells you that you're operating 1 by 5, it's not a compliment. Here's the URL to that website: http://www.ac6v.com/73.htm
SERGIO: Give the guy a break: he's towed the political line for a great many years; step up to the plate yerownself by writing to local papers, USA Today, Time, Newsweek and your congressman (or woman). Hell, after being the point man for so many years, Harlan may have just grown fed up with the whole business _because_ so many of us haven't made our own voices heard more often. Give it a shot, Sergio. The baton (or flag) eventually has to be passed on to _someone_; ya never know, you might just find your calling.
--DTS

Harlan and Susan:

From a man who will celebrate in four months time 15 years of wonderful wedded bliss with a woman who's managed to put up with every single one of my quirks (and viceversa, mind you), my belated congratulations on your 19th wedding. I hope you didn't party too hard. You should leave something for the big 2-0 next year.

Alejandro

Elijah,
Shaolin Soccer was released on dvd on August 24th.

Belated Greetings

Congratulations, Susan and Harlan, on your anniversary.

Sorry I'm late with this.

Regards,
Neal

Harlan writings on/about GW Bush
Hello, y'all, I'm new here though I've been a huge admirer of Ellison for many years now. Does ANYONE know if Harlan's written anything at all about the curent dunce in chief?

I've searched all over the damned net but found zilch. After all the visceral attacks on Nixon and other American right-wing extremists and fanatics, and after three and a half years of having the current troglodyte as president, there has got to be something Harlan has written against him.

I would be awfully disappointed if he didn't let him have full blast with some juicy, typically harlanesque diatribe. I hope one of you you may provide me with some links to such extant writings.

Thanks a lot.

Sergio

A couple questions open to the group.
1) Idle curiousity: Stacy Dooks used an expression, "5x5", upon the origins of which some friends of mine and I found ourselves speculating this past weekend. We agreed that we'd heard it used to describe situations that were stable or well ordered, and figured it came from military jargon. A quick google says it was used by the ham radio operators of old... anyone here know the straight dope?

2) Much less idle, but probably Of Little Use to Others: I have a story outline and am trying to go about writing it in a way that will keep my enthusiasm for it strong while I write. This approach has resulted in my skipping around, writing different scenes out of order. My assumption is that what is beginning as a series of vignettes will grow together as I flesh out the story over time. Theoretically I see this as similiar to the way one prepares the end of a story in tandem with - or even before - the beginning, but my inexperience has me a little worried that I'm just making an excuse for being undisciplined and I will find the story irreconcilably patchworked. If anyone here has advice - even if it's just what works for you - please consider my ears open. Hm... and I don't know if it matters, but generally speaking I write in two hour blocks... not much, but I've got to start somewhere and this fits with my life right now.

By the way, if attempts to hit the group up for advice are considered an exercise in poor taste, please let me know and I'll desist. You were the first bunch I thought of going to with this, but rumor has it that the internet is full of people trying to give out advic, though there's a shuddersome lack of quality assurance.

In other news:
I'm looking forward to both Sky Captain and Hero; the latter I have subtitled in my mind's marquee as "The Second Coming of Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon". Does anyone know if Shaolin Soccer has been released yet? I caught previews for it ages ago, but haven't seen hide nor hair of it since.

Send Bill Clinton a Get Well card
After George W., I'd send a goddamn tropical rainforest of flowers to Bill C.

Please, America, don't give him another four years...please, please, please...if you have absolutely any desire or interest in re-establishing the world's faith in you...

Any news on the subject matter of "Children of the Streets"??

GOOD THINGS COME IN NINETEENS
If you think the first 19 years were fun, imagine how you'll both love the next nineteen. And the next. And the next...

Now Awaiting Ivan
Belated happy anniversary, Harlan and SUsan...

Happy Anniversary!

Best ever,
Mike

Happy Anniversary! And maaany mooore...

Made it back from D*Con in one tuckered piece. The line to go through security at Hartsfield reminded me of the Columbia River. Can't wait to do it again next year -- though maybe CascadiaCon would be a saner choice for someone from my neck of the woods.

Glad to hear Steve and Mark had a good time at Noreascon. But the golf? That's just braggin', Mark, you lucky SOB.

D.

p.s. Just wanted to metion how gracious Peter David was at the con. Struck me as a gentle guy filled with enthusiasm for the events he took part in. And he SAVED that cabaret.

Happy Anniversary to Harlan and Susan!!!

All health and happiness to you both!!

Send Bill Clinton a Get Well card
Can you guess the reason why I posted this here?

Happy Anniversary, Harlan and Susan.

"A Study in Emerald," The Neil Gaiman story that won the Hugo is up at Neil's page at www.neilgaiman.com/exclusive/StudyinEmerald.asp

for those who haven't read it.

Cheers, Jon

Congratulations.
Happy Anniverary Harlan & Susan Ellison. I'm glad and relieved to hear that Dragon*Con went well. I have got to try to avoid conversations with trolls, they are nothing but trouble.

Dragoncon

Ellisonificent! Yes, I've coined a new word for the show put on by the type-A1 Septuagenarian we all love to read and hear. I enjoyed myself immensely most of the time, and even found a huge grin on my face at inappropriate moments, like when he was verbally spanking the 20-something sound technicians for blasting the tech-Muzak at the beginning of one of his lectures. And that doesn't even count the stories he told about the other con-adventures he had, like the Elongated Elevator Excursion, or the Cruxshadows Cop Commotion.

He mainly ignored the panel discussion topics and held a series of lectures, after which they sold his books/game/cds. I spoke to a cute young twenty-something who had never heard of Harlan prior to her exposure to him at one of the Saturday panels, and she wanted to buy a book to introduce herself to his work, but not spend a lot of money. After a quick consultation, Steve Jarrett and I recommended a 6-dollar Paingod to her, after Steve used his giant-height to lean over the thronging crowd to see what they had under 10-bucks. Another convert!

I was very pleased to meet Barney, Demonocrites, Steve and his cute wife, who sounds exactly like Jodi Foster, Jim Davis, Debbie, Roger Govig (congrats on the new home! I don't envy the mess you're going back to), Web-Father extraordinairre Rick Wyatt, and about a 2-dozen other non-webderlander folk. I talked to 6 or 7 people who were comics aficianados exclusively, which surprised me, though I don't know why.

My one regret was the intestinal distress I experienced Sunday-night/Monday, which knocked me out of commission for the day on Monday. I know-TMI.

It seemed Harlan began to lose his voice on the first day. HOWEVER, he and Peter David had a panel on Saturday that encapsulated the Caberet concept which was actually scheduled for Sunday night...which I heard Harlan missed. The lighting was low, but I managed to get a few decent pictures which might be salvagable with a decent editing program.

Loved the hurricane, too.

-Keith

Jay, not your fault, I presumed you didn't have any problems or else you wouldn't have posted the link...and Adaware took care of everything, although cpu slowed to a crawl for awhile. I should load some kind of protection against shitware, I know...

Harlan & Susan: Happy 19th - may your heads rest on the same pillow for many years to come!

And while my buddy Dooner met Robert Sheckley on the one day I was not at Noreascon, I watched Tiger Woods and Vijay Singh duke it out for the #1 slot on the PGA Tour. Talk about a clash of cultures! From the World Science Fiction Convention to the Deutsche Bank Championship in twelve hours. And I lived to tell the tale.

(P.S.: and I didn't drop a red cent at the golf tournament. It helps to have family working the show.)

Mark

Hah! Nineteen years! Scotty and I have been married nearly twenty-one. Always with these rookies, it seems.

There's a rather interesting paradox that arises from you being only seven and married for twelve years beyond that. A sort of thing that could present problems, both of a temporal and legal nature. Under you get it all sorted out, Happy Anniversary!

Shame on Susan, robbing the cradle like this.

Melissa

Happy Anniversary
HARLAN & SUSAN: Happy 18th Anniversary, you two. Thought it sounds soooo cliche', I can't think of two people who were more suited to each other. And you guys _always_ look like a couple in love -- even after nearly 20 years of wedded bliss (I know _my_ roomie still needs an occasional hiatus from me. Can't blame her -- fifteen years with me would drive anyone bugfuck).
Here's to many more happy years together, you guys. Mazel Tov! (or, Mazal Tov!)
--DTS (an honorary Jew, who _always_ feels guilty about something)

Eric -
Dude - I am sorry that link effed up your system. I received it from a friend of mine and actually shared it with a few other people through Instant Messenger andwe discussed the content before I posted here, so I didn't expect there to be any problem.

I use Firefox with Pop-Ups and redirects restricted from my browser. That might be the difference. Still - wow. Sorry.

Worldcon
Figures I couldn't attend this time; any chance to encounter Robert Sheckley (a major influence) cannot be permitted. Sigh.

Happy anniversary, Susan and Harlan!
Happy anniversary to two of my favorite people.

Harlan: did you explain to Susan that the traditional gift for a 19th wedding anniversary is old comic books?

Love you madly.

Tony

To Noreascon and Back Again

First, Happy Anniversary to Harlan and Susan!

Noreascon and the Hugos are over, and it was an interesting time. I got to have a very pleasant conversation with Brian Aldiss, which was worth the price of the event. I also met briefly with Michael Swanwick, Robert Silverberg, Phil Klass, Robert Sheckley, Frederick Pohl and several others. Couldn't really get near Terry Pratchett though, which is just as well since I have not read him.

Honestly, I am relatively uninitiated when it comes to "fandom" and its "zines" and internal celebrities. Still, it was interesting to see all of it at once, reminded me of being back in college. I even had encounters with some of "First Fandom."

There were some good and some odd choices at the Hugos, but I was glad to see the special "retro-Hugos" for Bradury and Blish.

Harlan's name came up at several discussions, and it always caused such interesting and passionate responses. Almost all of it positive, I can say. It is a measure of his pre-eminence that Harlan is present for events that he is not even present at. Mark Walsh and I spoke up for Mr. Ellison wherever we needed to.

All the best,

Steve Dooner

Happy anniversary, Harlan & Susan!

With deepest respect,
Bill

We're back. Exhausted. They rode me hard and hung me up wet, pards. Expect nothing from either of us for more than a few days. Tomorrow, September 7th, is our 18th wedding anniversary, 19 years together. Hoping you are the same...

Yr. too-pooped-tuh-pop pal, Harlan

Scumware WARNING

Do NOT go to the link Jay Smith cites in his post...I went there and my computer was assaulted with scumware and browser hijacks that I'm still in the process of removing, 20 minutes later.

Re What OTR cons are like
In response to David Loftus' question about what OTR cons are like, I can only speak for the Cincinnati convention, since I haven't been to the larger cons in New Jersey and Washington State.

You have a dealer's room and you have an adjoining room where OTR re-creations are performed Friday afternoon and evening, and Saturday afternoon (along with the Boogie Woogie Girls performing Andrews Sisters' standards) When they're not rehearsing, the OTR stars are usually mingling with everyone else. It's very casual that way.

On Saturday night, the partitioning wall is removed, as are the dealers tables, and the now one large room becomes the site for dinner, followed by a final performance by the Boogie Woogie Girls, then usually two final OTR re-creations.

Then, there are the presentations of awards for contributions to OTR. One is the Stone/Waterman Award (named for Ezra Stone and Willard Waterman), given for outstanding contribution for the preservation of OTR.

There are others, but I forget what they're called at the moment.

There are, unfortunately, no panel discussions at the Cincinnati Old Time Radio and Nostalgia con, though I understand they do have them at the larger ones, such as the Friends of Old Time Radio (FOTR) con and SPERDVAC (Society to Preserve and Encourage Radio Drama, Variety, and Comedy).

But like I said, the Cincinnati con at least is very casual, almost like a family reunion, with OTR actors and OTR fans hanging out together, and just chatting with each other. I interviewed Fred Foy, Bob Hastings, Rosemary Rice, Peg Lynch, Clive Rice, and Tyler McVey in Cincinnati for my article on OTR, and all were approachable and weren't so bogged down with convention schedules that they didn't have time for interviews (as probably would have been the case at a larger convention).

Again, I still wish they had panel discussions at the Cincinnati con, but if the trade-off to not having those is having a very casual environment, then so be it.

Some people have get togethers in their hotel rooms Friday and/or Saturday night, and sometimes a large group will go out to dinner Friday night. This year, many of the attendees, inculding most, if not all of the OTR stars, went out together somewhere on that particular Friday. I didn't go with them, electing instead to introduce a smaller group of friends to Skyline Chili.

Hope that helps.

Rick

Well, D*Con is over, and I must say that as an experience the thing it reminded me of most was navigating the Buchanan Building at UBC between classes on a Friday afternoon just before the semester-closing beer garden blow-out. Only more crowded. Oh, and the costumes were better.

Actually, I had a good time despite my wariness in crowds larger than the population of my hometown. Harlan was in fine form, his laryngitis Sunday night notwithstanding. He should be home by now, and with the extraordinary weather situation in the South, I wish I could say the same. Pray fer me, fellow Webderlanders!

----------------------------

Alex:

Harlan encapsulated his review of JONATHAN STRANGE & MR. NORRELL for us during one of the writing panels. I will only say that I look as forward to reading your response to his review as you do to reading the review itself.

D.

p.s. It was great to meet Debbie, Steve (and his wife Gina [sp?]), Keith, Barney, Tim, and Rick. James P., I'm sorry I didn't do a better job of tracking you down. I still owe you and your wife coffee, and I'll make good the next time around.

Jay,

You can breathe easy again. I have no idea why this strange little myth has reapeared, but it's been circulating around my office too. Here are a couple of links that may help:

http://www.csicop.org/hoaxwatch/

and

http://www.snopes2.com/rumors/pentagon.htm

Also, if memory serves, they did recover at least one of the "black box" recorders from the aircraft in question (memory being fickle, you may want to double check).

Breathe, Jay. Breathe...

-Andrew

Something to see and discuss.
http://www.muchosucko.com/flash/pentagonlies.html#Main

Debunk this so I feel better.

Saw HERO. Very "purty"...but not much else, really.

Somehow I kept erupting into giggles every time one of the characters leapt towards another with his/her arm outstretched, clutching a sword, going "AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHH!!" I suppose there's a fine line between awe-inspiring and just plain goofy in these kind of movies, and I personally feel that it dropped into the latter category. But that's just me...

To Adam: You have my sympathies. This weekend, I got into a dreadful conversation with a right-winger. I tried to describe how people form political opinions, using an example which I'd hoped he'd enjoy hearing-- the dopey rationales liberals made against Ralph Nader. When I cited a few beliefs liberals held-- to illustrate how people held contradictory beliefs in order to preserve a moral 'story'-- he kept objecting to the beliefs I was citing.

I said that the Democrats I was discussing held, in their heads, the following propositions: that Gore won the popular vote, that Nader's votes prevented him from winning, that the several thousand votes of people mistakenly kept off the rolls was not as important as Nader's vote count... and suddenly, he began moaning about how these disenfranchised innocents were just a lie.

I tried to explain that the content of these items was _not_ what I was discussing. I was citing the contradictory beliefs of others. But it became apparent that he really could not follow the argument beyond a certain level of subtlety. (Granted, he was a little doped up on painkillers.) But I'm finding this to be the case with people, especially conservatives, more and more often.

It's a bit like that _Seinfeld_ routine at the rent-a-car stand. They tell Jerry that his car's not ready, and that he can't have the car he reserved. Jerry tries to explain that a "reservation" means that the car _would_ be _held_ for him. It's a wonderful example of the "normal" mindset.

On another topic... here's the list of Project Censored's 25 Most Censored New Stories of the past year, available at http://www.projectcensored.org/publications/2005/index.html

#1: Wealth Inequality in 21st Century Threatens Economy and Democracy

#2: Ashcroft vs. the Human Rights Law that Hold Corporations Accountable

#3: Bush Administration Censors Science

#4: High Levels of Uranium Found in Troops and Civilians

#5: The Wholesale Giveaway of Our Natural Resources

#6: The Sale of Electoral Politics

#7: Conservative Organization Drives Judicial Appointments

#8: Cheney's Energy Task Force and The Energy Policy

#9: Widow Brings RICO Case Against U.S. government for 9/11

#10: New Nuke Plants: Taxpayers Support, Industry Profits

#11: The Media Can Legally Lie

#12: The Destabilization of Haiti

#13: Schwarzenegger Met with Enron's Ken Lay Years Before the California Recall

#14: New Bill Threatens Intellectual Freedom in Area Studies

#15: U.S. Develops Lethal New Viruses

#16: Law Enforcement Agencies Spy on Innocent Citizens

#17: U.S. Government Represses Labor Unions in Iraq in Quest for Business Privatization

#18: Media and Government Ignore Dwindling Oil Supplies

#19: Global Food Cartel Fast Becoming hte World's Supermarket

#20: Extreme Weather Prompts New Warning from UN

#21: Forcing a World Market for GMOs

#22: Censoring Iraq

#23: Brazil Holds Back in FTAA Talks, But Provides Little Comfort for the Poor of South America

#24: Reinstating the Draft

#25: Wal-Mart Brings Inequality and Low Prices to the World

Jonathan Strange, unrevised proofs, subtitles
Todd, unrevised proofs are usually pretty close to the final copy of the book, but there are occasional exceptions. Right now, I'm reading a very entertaining book with proofs so error-riddled that the goofs add a bit of enjoyment to the experience. "Mute" for "moot," "threw" for "through"--homonyms and near-homonyms abound. Whoever copyedited this thing should be taken out and have all his verbs terminated with extreme prejudice.

You'd think some of these advance readers copies (or ARCs) would become collectible, but they almost never do. I've got a ton of them in the attic, from "Good Omens" to the latest Joyce Carol Oates. I'm reluctant to sell them--or, often, give them away to someone who's likely to buy the same title otherwise--because those freebie copies are something of a privilege. It's not particularly ethical to spread them about. You often see ARCs on Ebay, and just as often see the auctions pulled after a complaint is made.

I'm still looking forward to the various reviews of "Jonathan Strange & Mr Norrell" we've seen mentioned here, particularly Harlan's. Since I've had four e-mails, now, asking when mine will appear, I'll just say that it's already up at http://comunity.compuserve.com/literary It's a short review, though, barely 500 words. I've also planted a discussion of KICK there, getting a small kick out of placing it on an AOL-owned service...but, alas, it never really took off.

Adam, glad to hear you weathered the weather so well. I enjoyed your subtitled tale, too. For my part, I like going to movies with French subtitles or, alternatively, French movies with English subtitles. Half the fun is seeing how badly (or, very rarely, how well) the translation is conveyed. I once burst out laughing in a French flick when the line, "They're in the bedroom" was translated for Americans as, "They've gone upstairs." We're not wound quite so tightly in this country as we used to be.

So: anybody we know win the Hugo?

Thanks, Oscar, for popping in to spray the shit-mist. Suicide cliffs are that-a-way...

Physical Science
Hurricanes are growing larger and moving slower every year. At this rate the atmospheric conditions of the planet Earth will be conducive to developing a giant stationary storm, like the great red spot of Jupiter into which a 100 Earth's would fit. What causes the great red spot on Jupiter is of course the fact that the planet is mostly composed of gasses thus causing a runaway "greenhouse effect". The rampant industrial progressivism dictated by the corporate state engulfs the earth in similar gasses. The so called Hydrogen economy is merely another idealistic placebo ignoring the American populace who are addicted to the fossil fuel culture via their automobiles, motorcycles, jet-ski's, motor boats, air-shows, etc. In addition to the fact that Exxon, Shell, BP etc will not just disappear and will use Hydrogen proposals to make fossil fuel usage more efficient, thus making the situation worse. The metal's and alloys needed for hydrogen based technologies are also in limited supply, and will wear out very quickly.

Subtitles
I am well aware of the way some people respond to subtitles, and have seen more than one local movie theatre post warnings at the box office, the way you site.

However, a few years ago I had the opposite problem. I rushed to a local theatre to see Roberto Benigni's comedy THE MONSTER. I fully expected it to be in italian. However, this particular print had no subtitles. None. It was in italian without subtitles.

So a delegation of viewers led by myself went to the box office.

"Yes, we want to complain. The movie has no subtitles."

Ticket taker: (wisely) "Yes, it's a foreign movie."

"You don't understand. We know it's a foreign movie. But there are no subtitles."

"Yes, foreign movies have subtitles. Most people know foreign movies have subtitles."

"We know foreign movies have subtitles. We want subtitles. We need subtitles. This movie has no subtitles."

"We can give you a refund if it bothers you that it's a foreign language."

"It doesn't bother us that it's in a foreign language. We see foreign language films all the time. However, we need subtitles."

"We show a lot of foreign films, and most people expect..."

And so on. She just wouldn't get it. A manager came out and was also defensive about the subtitles UNTIL I said, "Sir. I understand that some people are bigots about subtitles. We are not. Listen to what we're saying. We NEED subtitles. You're showing a print WITHOUT -- that is, WITHOUT -- subtitles..."

It took a couple of complete explanations before the light dawned. When it did it was like a shaft of light breaking through thick cloud cover. The Manager was unable to explain the distinction to the lady in the ticket booth, who remained stymied.

Julian, I had a look at 419 Eaters....those folks have way too much time on their hands!

Well, until HE reports back, you can find out a bit about how Harlan's DragonCon weekend went:

peterdavid.malibulist.com

Yes, he lost his voice on Day 3.

Cheers, Jon

Two Great Movies and a Book Question
I highly recommend GARDEN STATE. A nice, first effort by Zach Braff who I'm told is of television fame.

I super duper highly recommend HERO. This was cinema. This was beauty. This was a perfect movie all around: definitely not for lovers of black and white, that's fer sure. I don't know much about this flic....I heard something about it having actually been released two years ago and being up for some foreign film award at that time; but calendar be damned. This is the year's best movie.

I had to be warned on three different occasions as I bought my ticket and entered the local AMC hundred-plex. First, large memos on the ticket window threatening me that if I buy a ticket I am doomed to read subtitles as the movie is in Mandarin. Then the ticket seller warning me that the movie is subtitled. Then the ticket taker.

Sheesh, it's obvious why: I can just imagine Mr. and Mrs. Trailer storming to the manager, wiping their butter flavored oil (oil flavored butter?) off their chins and demanding a lifetime pass for being forced into a movie that speaka no english. The types of people who don't know what movie they are going to see until they get to the ticket seller and then stand there for 30 minutes asking the poor kid what each movie is about ("What's Spider-Man 2 about?" "About an hour and 45 minutes" "huh?")

See HERO.

Book question: I stopped at my local used book store and grabbed a trade paperback of China Mieville's Iron Council. I know this book just came out in hardcover, so I was obviously confused as to why they had a trade paperback in perfect condition on their shelves for just $5.

I then noticed the "Advanced Reader's Edition Not For Sale" notice on the bottom of the front cover, and the National Marketing Campaign information detailing how the publisher and author will market the book with media appearances and ComicCon appearances. OK, so now I feel guilty buying the thing, especially with what has gone on with out host and all, but $5 was $5 for a book that even in paperback next year will cost more.

I'm intrigued, though, by a final notice on the pack cover, "These are unrevised proofs. Please do not quote for publication until you check your copy against the finished book."

So, how unrevised are these reviewer copies? Is there the potential of having major pieces of this novel re-written, or chapters excised? Or is this just a warning in case a last minute adjustment on a sentence here or there takes place?

Ciao, For Now.

-TODD

Head's Up
Reporting in, post-hurricane, to report that it skimmed my area, much weakened, without doing much damage; but we are now keeping a close eye on Ivan, now building strength in the Atlantic.

Greetings all!

I'm ashamed to say that I haven't kept up with my HE news in a while. Finding this board when I returned was refreshing. The internet has become the worlds greatest shopping mall complete with mallrats and pickpockets.

But I digress...(Sorry Peter David).

I just wanted to say hello. I met Harlan a few years ago in Reading, PA. and HE encouraged me to pick up my pen and continue my career as an artist at a point when I was ready to pack it in. I was scared shitless about showing him my work. Imagine my elation when he glared at me and said "Heatter, What the hell are you doing?! This stuff is good!"

Not trying to toot my horn here. Just sharing my story and gratitude. Thanks to Harlan and Susan. Good to see so many people out here still love ya!

JH!

Fun with Nigerian Scammers
On the other hand, some people make replying to 419 scam artists something of a sport..

http://www.419eater.com

Julian

Gang, Gang, Gang,

Stop trying to be clever with the Nigerian (and other) internet scam emails. Sending them cute replies are snotty replies or any other type of replies....simply clicking on the email to read it then deleting it....will only get you on a list of people who showed an interest in the email.

They get "Fuck off!" emails in return all the time: but all it says to them is at least the person showed an interest and opened the damn thing, and thus that person is now on a list to send more and more and more email shit. You may get to grow a nice long dong, or Suzie from next door may want to just talk with someone who cares, or your printer may need some nice cheap ink, or hey, there may be a problem with your credit card and bank account so please enter both numbers and your social security number in the box marked "SUCKER" and we'll be happy to repair it no charge.

Don't play games with them, unless you are lonely and enjoy mail. And scams. An viruses.

Wishing I wuz in Atlanta.....

-TODD

DragonCon
Gang:

Warren Ellis is reporting from DragonCon at his diepunyhumans website. Our kind host makes an appearance.

www.diepunyhumans.com

Join the fun

Alejandro

Andrew Laubacher: hello neighbor! I'm in Penfield.

What I used to like to do with the Nigerian scam-spam is copy the emails, hit reply, and send them off to each other. So Mr Ngumbwe Mbutu Johnson, Esq. gets a nearly identical plea from Mrs Idiwe daughter of the late Nigerian minister. I'm sure it accomplished nothing but it made me feel clever for a second or two.

old time radio, continued

The Gary Witte piece is nice, but it would be fun to have Barney go through it and cite how many errors there are in it -- I catch a few beyond the one Adam mentioned, myself.

I've talked a lot about the OTR shows I like; not so much about the ones I have. Unfortunately, so many of the shows I collected are inaccessible to me, for one reason or another. Many I taped off the Armed Forces Network in Germany 1969-71 are probably forever inaccessible: the Uher machine is dead and the reel-to-reel tapes stored away in my parents' house are deteriorated, for all I know.

Among the material on those tapes are maybe a half dozen Stan Freburg shows -- excellent stuff -- several episodes of "The Magnificent Montague," "It Pays to be Ignorant," various one-shot appearances by singers and comics from Sinatra and Crosby to Jerry Colonna and Fred Allen, and a good hour of material by a radio comedian I never hear anyone talk about, Henry Morgan. His stuff is very sharp and very funny.

I had two LPs of W.C. Fields and Charlie McCarthy

[Fields recalls going to the corner tavern to fetch his father, tugging at his coattails and saying, "Father, dear Father, come home with me now . . . and bring a jug with ya!"

"I can remember when on my unsteady legs I toddled from room to room." "When was that, last night?"]

which were and are pretty beat-up but probably still at my Mom's house. Other LPs include famous news broadcasts (the burning of the Hindenburg, Louis and Schmeling, Whirlaway winning one horse race or other, etc.); singing by Crosby, the trio of Clayton Jackson and Durante, Kate Smith, etc. (I don't listen to those much). I'm sure there are other vinyl items I haven't heard in decades and have forgotten.

I have maybe six hours worth of the Bickersons on cassettes.

You'll notice it's almost all comedy material. I never much got into OTR dramas; I'm not much of a fan of sci-fi, suspense, horror, serials, or other genre material in books or movies, either. Katschei's Dance from Stravinsky's Firebird was an old musical friend to me by the time I was 14 and heard it used as incidental drama-heightening filler on old radio episodes of "The Green Hornet."

But I've probably not listened to enough of the serious stuff. I have one episode of "The Inner Sanctum" -- an episode about a homicidal maniac that is calmed by the chirping of a pet bird; you think the narrator is the killer but he turns out not to be -- that is pretty darn memorable. The show of "The Shadow" I heard was decent, but nothing I'd want to keep and hear again. I liked the quality of the voices and the atmosphere of the show much more than the so-so plotting.

Steve: I don't know if you're at all familiar with "Dry Smoke and Whispers," the show Harlan praised 23 years ago in "Edge in my Voice" #39 when its creators were fresh out of college. They've grown as writers and sound engineers, and have gathered a talented pool of voices (including moi) to revitalize the show. It's aired a little on XM Satellite Radio in the past year. CDs are available through their Web site, although I don't think any of my work is on this series; I come on in "Shadowman," I think. (The guy who voices Shadowman, Sam Mowry, sounds and LOOKS LIKE Orson Welles.)

Rick K.:

What's an OTR con like?

Just read the interview
What's this about "there's talk of a 50-year collection?" Isn't the new edition of THE ESSENTIAL ELLISON I have a 50-year collection? (Operating on foggy memory, forgive me if way off; that book among MANY MANY others, including LOTS I haven't read yet, is currently in storage until the wife and I can find a larger place.)

Hurricane Frances has slowed down and weakened; it's now a weak Category Three, and is hobbling along at five miles per hour. It's not arriving til late Saturday. The chief annoyance of this is that everything shut down on Thursday, in the expectation of an arrival sometime today; now all local civilization appears stopped for the rest of the weekend.

http://www.scifidimensions.com/Sep04/harlanellison.htm

Lookin' GOOD, Harlan!

Friends, folks and neighbors:

There is a new profile/interview of our kind host over at:

http://www.scifidimensions.com/Sep04/harlanellison.htm


Alejandro

SF events at the Philly Free library:

Philadelphia Library Author events
all held at main branch, 1901Vine St, Philadelphia, Pa. 19103 , 215-686-5322

www.library.phila.gov

Terry Pratchett, Monstrous Regiment
Wed, September 8 - 7:00 pm
Location: Central Library
Cost: FREE
One of the most noteworthy modern English-language satirists, Terry Pratchett
received the British Fantasy Award for best novel (Pyramids) in 1989 and was
named an Officer of the British Empire "for services to literature" in the
Queen's 1998 Birthday Honours. His exuberant and acclaimed novels have sold more
than 21 million copies worldwide.




Darrell Schweitzer, Sekenre: The Book of the Sorcerer
Mon, October 25 - 7:00 pm
Location: Central Library
Cost: FREE
Weird Tales editor and H. P. Lovecraft historian Darrell Schweitzer discusses
his new book Sekenre: The Book of the Sorcerer, sequel to the horror tale,
The Mask of the Sorcerer. In a world inspired by ancient Egyptian civilization,
the young sorcerer, Sekenre, struggles to find enormous hidden knowledge while
searching for the true meaning of sorcery.


Gardner Dozois (editor) with authors Tom Purdom and Michael Swanwick,
Supermen: Tales of the Post Human Future
Wed, December 1 - 7:00 pm
Location: Central Library
Cost: FREE
Gardner Dozois edits the Year's Best Science Fiction and Asimov's SF magazine
from his home in Philadelphia, PA. He has won the Hugo Award for Best Editor
many times. In Supermen, Dozois collects 29 tales of humanity's post-human
future by prominent science fiction writers. Local sci-fi authors and Supermen
contributors Tom Purdom and Michael Swanwick will join Dozois for a discussion.


Alan Lee, Lord of the Rings 50th Anniversary
Sun, December 5 - 2:00 pm
Location: Central Library
Cost: FREE
British artist Alan Lee is a renowned illustrator of J. R. R. Tolkien's books
and a conceptual designer on The Lord of the Rings film trilogy, for which he
received an Academy Award. Lee's watercolor illustrations adorn the centenary
edition of The Lord of the Rings, and he also illustrated Tolkien's Ring and
an edition of The Hobbit. Lee received the prestigious Kate Greenaway Medal
for Black Ships Before Troy, and the Best Artist Award at the World Fantasy
Awards of 1998. His other film credits include conceptual design on Legend and
Erik the Viking.

At this point, it might be interesting to ask Harlan: What's in YOUR oldtime radio collection?

DTS:

I think Mencken had it right:

"In this world of sin and sorrow there is always something to be thankful for; as for me, I rejoice that I am not a Republican."

I grew up with fond memories of CBS Mystery Theater on the AM radio in my dad's old 1970 Dodge Dart, sitting out in the moonlight listening to really cool stories and getting spooked. I have a few episodes of Cape Cod Mystery Theater one of which is the "Mr. Hugo's Night to Remember" episode with some great moments that play on common phobias.

The "Golden Age" shows I have make up the largest part of my audio colection. I follow mostly the anthologies. Some of the comedies still hold up even if many of the variety shows are dated. Detective and Westerns like Richard Diamond and Gunsmoke, Box 13, Sam Spade, Tales of the Texas Rangers, etc were better than comic books for me as I grew up.

I still try to find audio drama and the best stuff has been Big Finish's "Doctor Who" series featuring the latter four Doctors and stuff from Atlanta and LA Theaterworks. I quite enjoyed Alien Voices when Nimoy and DeLancie started putting out science fiction classics.

There's a lot of good stuff on the 'net if you're willing to look.

E-mail scam.
I just received the following e-mail, today. It is obviously a con-job, but is there anything in particular that I should do with it? I was thinking of forwarding it to the FBI. Suggestions? Text follows:

From: Mrs. Labaram E. Van Glendoven.
Glendoven Farms,
Chipinge, Zimbabwe.

Dear friend,

I am Mrs. Labaram E. Van Glendoven, a widow to late Donald

(etc. etc. - giant spam mail deleted. Yes, it's spam. No, you shouldn't forward it to the FBI. It's a common version of a standard Nigerian scamming spam e-mail. There are about 500 million of them floating around. It would be like reporting a street corner 3-card monte game to the ATF, but if you insist on reporting it, check out http://home.rica.net/alphae/419coal/ - Ed.)

http://www.newscientist.com/news/nographic.jsp?id=ns99996341


His Master's Voice?

OTR and Me

Wow! It's great to find so many folks interested in Old Time Radio. Massasoit Community College in Brockton, Massachusetts hosts a Radio Classics Live performance every year, and through that event, I got to meet Fred Foy, announcer for The Lone Ranger on WXYZ, Arthur Anderson, former member of the Mercury Theater, Rosemary Rice, Peg Lynch and a number of others.

One year, I got the pleasure of performing with the group, and being a ham who can do a lot of funny accents and voices, I was used quite a bit. This was a great thrill, and I got to do an old Our Miss Brooks Script (playing the Gale Gordon role).

Meeting Fred Foy, Mr. "Fiery hoofs with the speed of light" himself, was my greatest pleasure. I still remember when I met Clayton Moore years ago, at the time he was forced to wear the Rayban sunglasses instead of his mask. I never forgot him and have to say I kind of worshipped him. I was speechless.

Arthur Anderson told me stories about performing in Orson Welles' famous production of Julius Caesar. He was the boy attendant of Brutus, as I recall. He also wrote the introduction to the new CD collection of the Mercury's shows. He was nice guy.

I've collected tapes of the Mercury's Les Miserables, Hitchhiker, Rebecca, Diamond as Big as the Ritz, Heart of Darkness, War of the Worlds, Dracula and numerous other shows. If you have not heard their version of Dracula, you've missed something.

I also have tapes of Lights Out, Kaltenborn reading the news, Jack Benny (My Lord and Saviour), Fred Allen, Fibber McGee and Molly, and many more. I will have to go back home to see what I have in my collection now. It's too much to recall here and now.

Steve Dooner

Reply for Steve Dooner
Steve: The answer to your question is both. Their works are available both through their Website and Amazon, and all of them are excellent. There new CD releases aren't online yet, so you might want to email them about obtaining that format.

James

Good Luck Adam-Troy
ADAM-TROY: Best wishes to you and your family (worst I ever endured was a 70mph Hurricane). Let us know how you and your family fare. All best.
--DTS

My pleasure, Harlan. And kudos to Julian for finding that site. His internet mojo is powerful indeed.

Alejandro

Rick K., that would be Daffy Duck.

I will now see what I have in my fridge...the leafy thing sprouting flowers looks to be edible, but I think I'll have to kill it first and cook it well-done. I will proceed cautiously because I think it has spotted me. If I'm not back in five minutes, send in a team of mercenaries of no less than twenty men. Tell my wife and kids that I really didn't love them and they kept me from doing the things I really wanted to do. Be of good cheer.

Addendum
Accidentally left this out (my whole initial reason for posting, but I'll be very brief): thanks, Harlan. You know why.

"...But there's someplace he'd rather be..."
It would be nice to be at EITHER Dragoncon or Worldcon this weekend, but fate decided that we should be in the path of this Category Four hurricane instead. Gaaaaah.

Don't worry about me, everybody...save the children...!

jULIAN!!!!!!!
ALEJANDRO!!!!

Mission accomplished. My gratitude.

Harlan

This week's "Time" magazine
ALL: whatever you do, _avoid_ the interview in this week's "Time" magazine (the cover features "Dubya," with the headline, "The World According to George W. Bush" -- Irving should sue). The interview will make you weep over a political system so fucked up that it could allow someone _that_ stupid to be in charge of our country. (The interviewer has to ask a question -- about a speech by Clinton -- _twice_ before the Moron-in-Chief answers. Then, the interviewer has to point out that the quote was basically slamming Bush. His response to _that_ is even more embarrassing. And the interview with his wife has me convinced that the two are perfectly matched (too bad they already polluted the gene pool).
--DTS (Cindy, just in case you decide to come to Laura's defense, I'm telling ya true: she's not much brighter than her dumb-as-brick husband).

Julian:

I hate to speak for the man but that looks like the one.

I also found out that Milan released a brand new edition of the composition featuring arragements by Brazilian greats Egberto Gismonti and Jacques Merelenbaum Cateano Veloso's arranger).

Oh, and Harlan, the Nonesuch recording was by a group called the Kremerata Baltica featuring Gidon Kremer on the violin.

Alejandro

Piazzola
Mr. Ellison,

I found this online, is this the one you are looking for?

http://www.iclassics.com/homepage.jsp/iclassics/album.jsp?selectionId=26913

Hope this helps,
Julian

Harlan:

I'll start scouring the records used stores and whatever little independent record stores are left in Chicago for it right away. I might be visiting my parents in Puerto Rico next month, so I'll even check over the record stores over there as well.

Now that I think of it, El Corte Inglés, Spain's largest department store, has a website…I'll start right there.

Alejandro

Harlan & Susan;
As it sits are in limbo for tomorrow (Thursday). We have your cell phone and will get in touch as the day progresses. We may not make it to the hotel until early Friday morning. Have a safe trip; looking forward to seeing you both. Tim

Brian and Kieth:

Spot on, provided I haven't misunderstood you. The same goes up here for the New Democratic Party (New Democrats?). This is a party which thinks it has a monopoly on progressive thought, and can't see anything beyond electoral politics. When they embrace big business, back down on important issues, cross picket lines or fail to support labour, it's all for the sake of "getting in". As if "getting in" were all that mattered. "Getting in" is no gaurantee of "influence"; rather I would argue it's a gaurantee of impotence. Progressive influence comes from "outside" the system, from public demonstrations, labour actions etc.

For instance, here in Canada, Universal Healthcare was passed by a CONSERVATIVE government, because the public demand for it was so overwhelming. It was not passed because the right politicians were elected to Parliament.

Political parties on both sides of the border (and both sides of the Atlantic) have fallen into the trap of believing that they have to wait until the next election to influence policy (and only if they win that election).

If the Democrats want the Progressive vote, they gotta start being Progressive. They've gotta earn that vote: they're not entitled to it. Give people something worth voting for rather than griping at Ralph Nader.

-Steve E.

P.S. "The Chicken that Ate New York" rules. That was MY intro to Old Time Radio!

ALEJANDRO, ASSAI:

As the wizard of all things even peripherally Spanish, Latino, South American, Cubano, et al ... can you help me find a copy of the following, either LP or CD:

Composer: Astor Piazzolla (Argentinian Modern Classical)

Composition: THE FOUR SEASONS OF BUENOS AIRES aka
"Cuatro Estaciones Portenas"

Artists: I Solisti di Italiana

There was one recording, I know, by another group, on Nonesuch (#79568), and if I can't locate the version desired above, I'd settle for this alternate version. But I'd rather not.

I've tried all the usual venues. Lots of Piazzolla, but no FOUR SEASONS suite. Can you use your Castilian magic to help me out here?

Thank you, Jefe. Yr. humble amigo, Harlan
a

Dragoncon
One quick note for any Webderlanders who haven't left for Dragoncon yet. If you have any spare room in your suitcase, I hope you will consider this.
Eric Watts, the coordinator of TrekTrak, sent out an email for donations to the TrekTrak Charity auction. The charity auction is in support of the Ed Kramer Legal Defense fund. I would be happy to forward this email if anyone is interested. Please contact me at the above email address.
Rick, if this isn't an appropriate post,please delete.

Thank you.
Debbie

Henske and stuff.
To Keith Cramer: I would not say that taxes are bad or evil; but I don't think that it's reasonable to pay more in taxes than the minimum required to get the job done. Just as I feel that the Federal Government has no business spending money that the Constitution does not authorize it to spend. Philosophically, I'm a libertarian; politically I am registered as Independent after realizing that as a Democrat, I was fairly conservative. If that makes any sense.

I had the bit of good fortune to find the re-issue of Judi Henske's self-titled 1963 album at a local record store on cd. I never knew that she could be so funny. Her introductions to her songs make it clear that if she hadn't taken up music, she could easily had a career as a stand-up comedian.

Brian Siano


I would not want to live in any country where Dan Savage was not allowed to do what he is currently doing for journalism.

Good call, my man,

Messily,
Neal Santorum

Since we're talking about OTR...
As I’ve said, I’ve been an OTR fan since 1978, and I regularly attend the Cincinnati OTR con. Just wish I’d known about it when I was living in Cincinnati, but once I finish building the time machine, I’ll be able to rectify that. Just need to reverse the polarity of the neutron flow and...

BAM!

“Hey, what are you doing down there?”

“Down here? What are you doing up here?”

Anyone able to identify the speaker(s) in this conversation (nothing to do with OTR or time travel, by the way)? Those who guess correctly will win a self-cooked meal from whatever food is in their refrigerator.

But back to OTR. Unlike Steve, I haven’t performed with OTR actors, but last year in Cincinnati, an original script I wrote was performed by OTR actors; and I’ve also interviewed OTR actors for a magazine article I wrote a few years ago on the continuing appeal of OTR. One of the many cool things resulting from that script having been performed is that this year the director specifically asked me to contribute something to a radio reperatory theatre he’s involved with (i.e. is the stories are actually broadcast, not just performed for a live audience). So I adapted a short story I’d written and sent it to him. I’m still awaiting final word about it (he’s part of a team that makes the final decision on what scripts to air).

To whomever commented about there being many “Quiet, Please” episodes out there (apparently in response to my comments about the series), I know there are, but most of them are in very poor condition (sound-wise), unfortunately. So I was speaking of the relatively few that sound better than that.

Of course talk of “Quiet, Please” inevitably leads to talk of “Lights Out”, which in turn, leads to the close of this missive with an excerpt from the great Bill Cosby’s routine about the “Lights Out” episode “Chicken Heart.”

“Dad, watch out, the Chicken Heart’s gonna eat you up!”

“What Chicken Heart are you talking about?”

“The one on the radio.”

“Stupid idiot, turn it off.”

(beat)

“...I hadn’t thought of that. For two years anyone who went by our house, my Father-- ‘hey, come here, I want to show you my dumb kid. Go on, tell ‘em how you burned a $100 sofa and broke your father’s arm to save us from that THUMP Thump. THUMP Thump.”

Rick

My introduction to Old Time Radio was from my father, who experienced it first hand. I ended up getting recordings of War of the Worlds, Dracula, Superman (where Bud Collier played all the male roles in each 15 minute episode), and recordings of W. C. Fields vs. Charlie McArthy.

Edgar Bergen: It's just the Mischief in the boy. Why, he's his own worst enemy.

Fields: Not while *I'm* alive, he's not.

Charlie: Is it true that when you were standing at the corner of Hollywood and Vine, cars waited for your nose to change to green?

Fields: Is it true your father was a gate leg table?

Charlie: If it was, *your* father was under it.

Chuck

This is going to look like such a non-sequitur

Brian, slight correction. Steele is the Lieutenant Governor. Erlich is the Governor.

As for your interesting thought to which that leads, I concur with your observation of the natural extension of that philosophical morass. At some point, there’s a line you cross…a transparent yet monumentally significant line, in which the power you gain to change things comes at a significant price, and that price is your conscience. Therefore, people who embrace that rationalization are delusional, yet they do not realize it.

The country is getting more conservative, fueled by a fat middle class that desires the wealth that is just out of their reach. I think social Democrats have largely fled the party to join with Nader, and the labor Democrats are holding it all together. And labor is going away, to China, India, and Mexico.

The Democratic Party will have to elevate socially liberal, yet fiscally conservative Democrats to positions of power in order to stem the tide of the Republican Party, which has been strongly influenced in recent years by fundamentalist Christianity. I have no problems with Christians, as long as they don't try to enforce their crazy notions on the rest of us. Same with any religion, really. How would a Christian Fundamentalist like it if they looked down at their money and saw "In Allah we Trust," everywhere? Probably not much; yet we Agnostics have to take slaps like that day in and day out.

What I never understood was the thinking that taxes are bad. Every civilized society has taxes. I’m proud to pay my 20K per year, knowing its going to defense, social security, child services, roads, Medicaid, airport security, infrastructure, fire protection, law enforcement, etc. Small price to pay for feeling perfectly safe and secure when I go anywhere I want.

I love listening to people scream like wounded wildebeests when someone wants them to pay for national child-care programs so poor families can get to work, but they are just fine when they get to drive to work on roads paid for by our taxes. It’s not like the rich or middle-class would be excluded from putting their children in National Day Care. But no. Roads are fine, but child care is too much. Lines should be redrawn, and the only way that's going to happen is with dialog and persuasion.

-Keith

The Burgess Connection

Well, since people are talking about Anthony Burgess...

With all due respect to Harlan's (completely understandable) negative feelings towards Burgess, I still think the man was, overall, a staggering writer with a formidable intellect (he flummoxed William F. Buckley during an interview when Buckley was clearly trying to "out-erudite" his guest), and he had an amazing life. His novel "Earthly Powers" is (IMO) utterly brilliant, and it remains my favorite novel of all time. 20 years ago, I went through a period where I collected first editions of Burgess, and I still own almost 50 of his books and other rare printed matter, in both American and British first editions, including a first Heineman edition of "A Clockwork Orange." (And I got my copy of "Powers" autographed by Burgess when he gave a reading at Harvard in 1983.)

For those people who haven't read Burgess's fiction (other than "A Clockwork Orange") and his essays (especially his autobiographical material), I still do -- despite his poor review of DV -- recommend his work.

-- Jon

Request
Jumping into things out of the blue, and not exactly part of the thread of conversation---Is there someone out there who can shoot me a copy (via e-mail of course) of Mssr. ellison's essay "The Song The Sixties Sang"? I'm planning to read it to my Hist. 102 class as a look back at the sixties. I have it in his Edgeworks collection, but I've mislaid my copy.
watsonh@otc.edu

To Jay Smith: Thank you VERY MUCH for the link to thesmokinggun.com's examples of photos that _were_ accepted by Photostamps. I've since sent them a letter, asking why a perfectly decent picture of my girlfriend in gargoyle makeup was _less_ acceptable than photos of Slobodan Milosevic and Nikolai Ceaucescu. I expect to get another form letter, but if I can make them feel bad for a while, I'll be happy.

Dan Savage has been running some hilarious columns, about the sexual misinformation his readers had when they were kids. Check them out at the Village Voice website.

Oh, and here's one of those wonderful thought experiments that keep me from mixing in civilized company. I was reading an account of Michael Steele, the governor of Maryland who qualifies as a liberal Republican. The profiler asked why Steele stays with a party that's so dominated by wackos, and Steele comes back with stuff about the inclusiveness of the party and the need for moderate voices in the party.

Now, I can understand this second point. If I was a moderate Republican, I'd certainly want to make sure that a moderate voice tempered the lunatics. But I had to think: this is similar to the complaint that Democrats have made against radicals-- to work within the party, rather than ditch for Nader. After all, working outside the party, they won't have any influence. (Once in the party, the radicals are told to shut the hell up, because they'll alienate the moderates who aren't loyal to the Democrats. Oh, well.)

But this led me to an interesting insight. Why is working in the Democratic Party so desirable? Easy: unlike the Greens or Nader, they have a chance of getting elected. They have some power. That's obvious. Well, then, if that's the criteria we're using, why shouldn't we just _join the Republicans_? They get elected, too. In fact, not only do they get elected, they hold the three branches of government, they have better funding, and they seem to have the news media recycling their lies for them pretty effectively.

Harlan:

As luck would have it I have just popped into the Pavilion. So, do pray ask and I shall move earth, sea and a couple of cantankerous Cubans to find the answer that you seek.

Alejandro

APPEAL TO ALEJANDRO
Hey! You lurkin' out there in Chicago?

If yes, pop in and let me know you're extant; I have a query for you.

Harlan

ancient voices

Steve Dooner:

Mah MAN! I want to hear your war stories, too! Just like Gentle Giant and Timothy Findley and Helen Mirren and even Ellison and Fowles to an extent, my love for old-time radio has been something I’ve savored pretty much to and for and with myself. I haven’t really known anyone my age (and precious few of any other age) who’s all that familiar with the golden days of radio, let alone loves those shows the way I do.

There is at least one troupe of actors in the Portland area who read old-time radio scripts live and over local alternative radio, but I haven’t been able to break in to their lineup yet. It’s damn frustrating!

I have, however, been doing voices for a 1940s-style audio series that has been airing now and then on XM Satellite Radio; have gotten to “be” everything from a villainous high priest, East Indian miner, and an overstuffed fat cat, to a poofy and sycophantic arts reporter and retired horror film star (a la Vincent Price). It’s great fun!

There’s a hilarious script in the Fred Allen anthology I read recently, _“…all the sincerity in Hollywood…”_, of Orson Welles’s guest appearance on Allen’s show shortly after the Mercury Theater bunch did an adaptation of _Les Miserables_. Half of it consists of Allen working his way through Welles’s supposedly huge entourage of hangers-on and primpers before Welles makes his grand entrance, all the while pretending to be VERY HUMBLE, and then they do an adaptation of Les Mis in which Welles hogs all the lines while repeatedly reassuring Allen that they are co-starring equally.

Are you familiar with the Command Performance show “The Marriage of Dick Tracy,” also known as “Dick Tracy in B Flat or For Goodness Sake Isn’t He Ever Going To Marry Tess Trueheart?” (starring Bing Crosby as Dick, Bob Hope as Flattop, Sinatra as Shakey, Durante as the Mole, Judy Garland as Snowflake, Dinah Shore as Tess, etc., etc.) I was overjoyed to see this come out on CD nearly two decades after I first heard it on AFN Frankfurt as a boy. Mine is still the only review of it on Amazon.

Somewhere in Jack Benny's autobiography, I think, he quotes a radio writer who said TV is like radio, only the pictures are not so good.

Please tell me where you order/obtain old shows for your collection, Steve!

James Palmer:

Where can one obtain copies of the ARTC recordings with HE from the other end of the continent? Do they sell them from their Web site, or are they available on Amazon?

Re Anthony Burgess: He is certainly worth reading, although I do only a little of him at a time. His two volumes of memoirs are especially accessible and interesting. What an odd life the man had!

Old-Time Radio
I love Old-Time Radio too, especially science fiction from that period. If you want to hear some stuff Harlan has done with the troup he'll be performing with this weekend, you simply must check out the Atlanta Radio Theater Company (www.artc.org). Harlan did H.P. Lovecraft's The Rats in the Walls and Robert Heinlein's The Man Who Traveled in Elephants. Elephants is my favorite, and is arguably the best thing ARTC has put out so far. Order a copy on cassette or CD and you'll see what I mean. For those of you going to Dragon*Con, they're having a convention special: Cassettes for 8$ and CDs for 10$. I'm stocking up!

James

For those of you that caught the Bush twins and their "speech" last night: Unless the home video of Babs and Jenna doing the nasty with a couple of drunk Republicans is distributed on the Internet, I don't think we'll be seeing much more of them in public.

And I think Arnold's speech was borderline satire. I mean, did anyone other than the faithful in the Garden take it seriously?

Laura was...nice. Good to see that George Bush made one good decision in his life, but I'll bet she'll be glad when this is all over, win or lose, so she can go back to just reading to kids and ignoring the media.

Neal - Terry & the Pirates are undeniably frabjous. Even better, if you can find 'em, are the original Milton Caniff (or whatever the correct spelling is) comic strips! They absolutely rock! And did you know that there was a fairly creditable movie serial made, with Terry, Pat, Burma, Connie, Big Stupe and the gang? Their Dragon Lady left a bit to be desired (really, no other than Agnes Moorehead shoudl have been allowed near the role), but all told a handsome effort. As more and more things are released on DVD, I have high hopes... Likewise THE ADVENTURES OF CAPTAIN MARVEL (again, not perfect, but Tom Tyler was *born* to play that part...).

Cheers,
Doc

STEVE DOONER,

I too am a long-time fan of old radio shows, and would LOVE to hear more about your experiences performing with stars of the period. If you feel it's too far afield for the Pavilion, then perhaps in the other forum. (Although, given our patron author's interest in the topic, and the fact that he is scheduled to give just such a performance in Atlanta this week, I would contend that it fits well here.) Do tell!

Steve J.

There was a substantial Burgess thread last year--sparked, if I recall, by my praise of his NOTHING LIKE THE SUN--but where exactly it is in the archives, I have no idea. Still, at the risk of repeating myself, I'll state that NLTS is a wondrous mixture of Shakespeare and Joyce, and possibly one of the best things Burgess ever wrote. (I say "possibly" because I'd have to plow through all 3,684 of his works to verify that statement, and, well, life is too damned short for that.)

Neal Johnson:
Gore Vidal wrote a typically enthralling essay about Prokosch for the NYRB, a review of his autobiography (which apparently includes some correspondence with Nabokov). It’s also available in Vidal’s “United States” 1300 page doorstop collection (which also includes a semi-affectionate mugging of Anthony Burgess). And a book which I keep finding everywhere, but may not be so easy to find in the US, is Francis Scarfe’s “Auden and After” which has a chapter on Prokosch (with photo insert too).

Brian Siano:
Noooooo. Don’t skip Bloom’s monologues. Bloom is the homme moyen sensual - his is the poetry of the perfectly average man. All these fragments add up to his history, his hopes, his dreams and fears, a man for whom the world is tangible and everything is worth knowing for its own sake. A fragment at random:

The nails, yes. Is there anything more in him that they she sees? Fascination. Worst man in Dublin. That keeps him alive. They sometimes feel what a person is. Instinct. But a type like that. My nails. I am just looking at them: well pared. And after: thinking alone. Body getting a bit softy. I would notice that: from remembering. What causes that? I suppose the skin can't contract quickly enough when the flesh falls off. But the shape is there. The shape is there still. Shoulders. Hips. Plump. Night of the dance dressing. Shift stuck between the cheeks behind.”

- from the shame of a man who’s trying to avoid looking at his wife’s lover, then considering why she might be more attracted to his cuckolder, then returning to thoughts of death (he’s in a carriage on the way to a funeral) then on to thoughts of sex and his wife and a reminiscence of what attracted him to her. Joyce has created the rhythm of a mind, its style and character. And by skipping the internal you’ll also miss on later correlations and allusions further on in the book. One of the delight’s of the book is how-cross referenced it is, so that the merest passing mention of one fact early on may blossom into a fantasy or disquisition three hundred pages later. This isn’t for the academic sake of it but for the fullest, richest possible evocation of life and all the possible means available to the writer to express that deep and rolling reality.

Joyce takes a generalisation from Otto Weininger’s “Sex and Character” (1903) (and it is a a highly accurate yet simplistic description of Bloom if every there was one) and creates one of the most empathetic characters of twentieth century lit: “The congruity between Jews and women further reveals itself in the extreme adaptability of the Jews, in their great talent for journalism, the “mobility” of their minds, their lack of deeply-rooted and original ideas, in fact the mode in which, like women, because they are nothing in themselves, they can become everything“.

Stamps and The Smoking Gun
Hey Brian...

Here are a few photos that were accepted by photos.stamps.com

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/0831041_photostamps_1.html

the Pulps


Harlan has pointed the way to a lot of cool entertainment that I know I would have otherwise missed. Simmple sad fact is that Harlan, in most cases (Prokosch and Kersh, for just 2 examples), is the only one I know to have even mentioned these.

My favorite of them all, of all the things Unca Harlan has hipped me to, is:

Terry and the Pirates. Nothing could be cooler.



Enjoy DragonCon, Unca Harlan.

Regards,

Neal

Burgess also published A Shorter FInnegan's Wake, which makes the experience of Joyce's dream book far more accessible. I've only seen A Shorter Finnegan's Wake in libraries, though. It's wayyyy out of print.

ON RADIO: I've collected old radio shows for years (The Shadow, Superman, Lights Out, Jack Benny, Fred Allen) and have even performed with some old-time radio all stars. The Mercury Theater is a big favorite of mine. Interestingly, I recently heard Orson's radio version of Scott Fitzgerald's "The Diamond as Big as the Ritz," which intersects nicely with some recent Harlan recomendations. I also wish everyone here could get ahold of The Mercury version of "The Hitchhiker."

REPLY TO BARNEY RE: ANTHONY BURGESS
While Barney is on safe ground opining that I will never be one found on the record as praising Anthony Burgess the Man--who was a meanspirited and jealous-of-his-contemporaries crank--I would be no kinder nor honorable than he, were I to deny his substantial talents as a writer. I used to admire him blindly, to the point of overlooking his penchant for posturing and fustian, until that beastly and unfair DANGEROUS VISIONS review, which savagery served the strip the scales from my worshipful eyes. So, no, I cannot deny that I warm myself at the thought that the late Mr. Burgess is laboring mightily at the furnaces in some nether hell reserved for clangorous critics ... but do not mistake that vengeful personal spite as any condemnation of his actual work. I like to think I'm decent enough to separate the categories.

Yr. pal, Harlan

President Bush will be interviewed on Rush Limbaugh at 1:45pm Eastern.

Joyce
While your not going to see Harlan chiming in on the side of Burgess [since Burgess slammed DV in a review without ever feeling the need to read the stories] Anthony Burgess did make two nice contributions to the field of Joyce scholarship. These were Re:Joyce and Joyceprick. The former was done in America back in the 1970's as a ballantine paperback and while somewhat scarce is findable. The later is harder and I haven't seen a copy in years. Amazon and Alibris may have changed all that but I'm out the door so you'll have to check for yourself. I remember Re:Joyce as a particularly fun way to get onboard with Joyce.

- Barney

>McCain revealed himself this Monday to be a pussy of the highest order.<

Glad someone finally said it. I never bought the hero bit with McCain anyway...yeah, I'm sorry he was abused in Viet Nam, he and a few million other people...that, for me, wasn't enough cred to give him a pass while he jumped back and forth on his politics.

To continue the Grail quotes, now we see the violence inherent in the system. Get ready for the final four years, friends, and pick your issue; there will be plenty to choose from. Mine will be the forests.

gimme that old time radio

I was introduced to so many wonderful radio shows that were well before my time ("It Pays to be Ignorant," "The Stan Freburg Show," "The Magnificent Montague," "The Bickersons," Baby Snooks, Jack Benny, Fred Allen, and so many more) in 1969-71 by the Armed Forces Network in Frankfurt when I was 10-12 years of age. Never quite cottoned to pulps or movie serials, but I love old radio shows.

Last month, when I was flat on my back for nearly a week, recuperating from inguinal hernia surgery, I self-medicated with 8 or 10 hours of Jack Benny (who was not too funny to make me bust a gut laughing, but mostly charming enough for smiles and gentle chuckles -- unlike the 2,000-Year-Old Man and "Beyond the Fringe," which turned out to be too dangerous).

Inspired by that, I read Benny's autobio and a collection of Fred Allen's quips and writings after I was up and around again. What wonderful comics and wits they were!

Brian, your story sounds right out of the opening titles of "Monty Python and the Holy Grail" . . . "those responsible for sacking the perpetrators have been sacked. . . ."

The reviews on the Star Trek Season 1 DVDs are coming in, and I've noticed soemthing odd. None of the reviews mention the extra that had been previously announced, a documentary that promised interviews with writers John Black, D.C. Fontana, and our estimable host. Methinks this particular extra has been, well, removed from the final product. (Oh, well. I don't have the spare scratch to buy the thing this month, I'm still watching Renoir's _The Rules of the Game_, and Cronenberg's _Videodrome_ is out this month as well.)

I've reached the second part of _Ulysses, wherein Leopold Bloom is introduced. I hate to admit this, but I find myself skimming past a lot of the stream-of-consciousness material. It was especially true with Stephen Daedalus's narrative, given that the man's a hypererudite scholar who can't help but draw from classical literature. And with Bloom, the sentence fragments of his own inner narrative say so little that I have to work to remind myself of what he's actually doing.

The Republican Convention. Oh, dear. The Democrats go out of their way to avoid bashing Bush, which left Clinton's light jibes the highlight of the whole affair. And didn't they seem a little forlorn in their effort to unite behind Kerry-- in much the same way a grade school class "unites" behind the teacher during a scheduled fire drill?

Not so the Republicans: they came out swinging against Kerry, and hard. Sure, they're putting their best faces up front, even the gay ones they'd normally keep out of sight. And a few of their speakers are, frankly, as demented and unfocused as Ann Coulter's wandering uterus. But they're showing spirit, which plays better on TV than courteous discipline, so I expect a big poll bounce for Bush afterward.

But let's lower our heads and mourn the passing of John McCain. Once a fairly stand-up guy, the sort most people wouldn't mind seeing as President, McCain revealed himself this Monday to be a pussy of the highest order. Consider that a few years ago, the Bush campaign maligned him as a crackpot, a psychologically-broken POW who'd fathered a black child out of wedlock. And the same people were loosing the same attacks on a fellow veteran. Right now, McCain is one of the few Republicans of national influence whom everyone can respect. What does he do in his speech? Forget campaign finance reform. Forget the ugliness of the attacks on John Kerry. McCain pledges support for Bush, and wastes his load on Michael Moore.

Maybe I'm being too hard on McCain, but I still think this proves a point that can't be stressed enough: Republicans _HATE_ veterans. Bush, Cheyney and Rove can't shake the suspicion that their lack of service in Vietnam speaks of weakness, powerlessness, and cowardice. So, they have to demonstrate their power by ruining the lives of _real_ veterans. It's a bit like Roy Cohn in _Angels in America_, proving he's no queer by destroying as many lives as possible.

Maybe this scene's from a movie or a play, but here's what I thought of while watching McCain. It's the court of a newly-crowned king, who's this skinny, neurasthenic wastrel popping grapes and being blown by houris. The finest of his father's generals brings him bad news, and the king demands proof of the general's loyalty by asking him to fall on his own sword. The general looks around, incredulously, but no one will side with him, and duty and honor bind him to throwing his life away.

There's only one T in Thai food
HE wrote: "the Sumpun Thai, the best Thai restaurant in Los Angeles, certainly, and possibly on the entire planet"

Damn. Now there's some insider info I can really use. I have a serious letch for good Thai food. Mind you, it'll be at least a year until I'm anywhere near LA, by which time the info may be out of date. Still, I'm jotting this one in my commonplace book, just in case.

Steve, I think older generations achieved art & sophistication by not worrying about art or sophistication, and just concerning themselves with telling a good story & telling it well/engagingly. Take my earlier comments viz. QUIET, PLEASE - Cooper, I'm guessin', never stopped to wonder whether anyone would ooh or ahh over his style or admire how smart he was; he just went to work aiming to tickle their funny-bone, or pluck their heart-strings or scare them witless.

And by cracky, he dood it! He did it without glitz, he did it without much money - he did it by honestly believing in what he was doing and hiring kindred spirits (like the spookily-talented Ernest Chappel) to make it happen on the air.

Many thanks to Rick K. and Jeff R. and er,... Joseph K. and whoever it was that also responded whose name eludes me, for the tidbits on Wyllis Cooper. There are more episodes of QP available than someone mentioned - something like 84 out of 109 or so. They can be found online for download, or you can consult eBay and by 'em ready burned. Just doa search on QUIET PLEASE old time radio, and look for a seller calling himself hammerhead - he (she?) has a magnificent stock of old time radio, including QP, Hop Harrigan, Hopalong Cassidy, The Shadow, Fibber McGee & Molly, I Love a Mystery, and scads more, all very reasonably priced in the auctions section, and the buy-it-now prices aren't much more. I end up getting more at a sitting than I really should, but I've put aside enough harmful vices - this shouldn't weigh too heavily. Red Skelton, Captain Midnight... I think I'll go enjoy some NOW!

Cheers, All,
Doc (sans quotation marks)

" For the young reader today, Harlan gives enough clues about the pleasures of radio, pulps and comics that it is nearly impossible not to become intrigued and even nostalgic for something they never actually experienced in their young lives"

Indeed, indeed. The golden age of radio was over long beore I was born, and yet the old plays I've managed to dig up have been wonderfull, and I can't help thinking I missed out on something. I've always been drawn to older things, pulp magaznines, serials, BEMS, black and white movies and whatnot. It all seemed so much more imaginative than things do today. Something's missing.
The same sort of thing comes up in Bradbury's writing. These older writers appeal to me more than any contemporary.

Frank:

Nothing quite so bracing as a good rally, eh? I think the real trouble is that the Democrats are so bloody timid. Kerry has failed to attack Bush on any issue of importance. He comes accross as "Rebublican lite", which nobody needs right now. Why not stand up and say the obvious? Bush is an idiot; barely literate. He lied about Iraq. He NEVER went to Vietnam, or earned any Purple Hearts. Why do they not utilize any of this tremendous amunition? It's like they WANT to lose the election.

-Steve

>But, the polls in swing states are scaring the fuck out of me.<

8 states, Frank. I said it before, and I'll say it again...that's all Kerry is going to get. 8 states. And they'll all be on the Canadian border.

Sorry. Tried to warn you all, months ago. At least football season is starting up.

Joyce and Nabokov
When I took up ULYSSES, I relied on LECTURES ON LITERATURE (Harcourt Brace Jovanovich, 1980), comprising texts Vladimir Nabokov used in the undergraduate courses he taught at Wellesley and Cornell. I had, in fact, already read the other works covered in this volume -- MANSFIELD PARK, BLEAK HOUSE, MADAME BOVARY, "The Strange Case of Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde," THE WALK BY SWANN'S PLACE, and "The Metamorphosis" -- and, well, what could I do but reach for the copy of ULYSSES that had been collecting dust on the bookshelf? I mean, Nabokov practically double-dog dared me.

the Wake

Talk of James Joyce takes me back to college and a class I took from one Grace Eckley. She was a brilliant Joyce scholar who specialized in "Finnegans Wake". (Most scholars lean toward "Ulysses", I understand.) "The Wake" is intimidating, even for these people.

That was just one of many examples of a time when I wished I was born with a slightly bigger brain. Not only could I not penetrate "Finnegans Wake", I could barely follow this brilliant lady's lectures. One high point in the class was listening to recordings of Joyce reading his work.

FYI for a better understanding of "Ulysses" she recommended Stuart Gilbert's interpretation "James Joyce's Ulysses". I also found a tape series by Joseph Campbell to be quite illuminating.

Cordially,

Neal

Consumer Complaint dept. There's this company, photo.stamps.com, which offers to put your pictures onto genuine, usable Postage Stamps. Avoid this bunch, people.

A few weeks ago, the Fantabulous Dusti emailed me this picture of herself in gargoyle makeup. It was magnificently hideous, and I thought, it'd be a great surprise to hand her a batch of stamps with that picture on them. So I placed an order.

A few days later, I got an email saying that the picture had been rejected. They said they couldn't tell me why, but it violated the rules regarding "Politics, Sexuality, Religion, Copyright, Symbolism, Controversy, and Violence."

Now, I can understand the need to screen out swastikas and Unabomber pictures. But the photo contained _nothing_ along these lines-- t'was just Dusti in gargoyle makeup. So I wrote back asking for an explanation. I then got another email, saying that the previous note had been sent in error.

Okay, I figured, the order would go through. (By this time, I'd told Dusti the story, so the surprise was spoiled.)

Today, I rechecked the order status. It was still listed as "rejected." I phoned them to ask why. They told me that the _second_ email-- the one that said the first was sent in error-- was sent in error. The picture was still "rejected."

I asked for an explanation. Got another form email, saying that they couldn't tell me why.

So I sent them a note, asking, "You have the manpower to screen thousands of pictures according to these standards, but you can't take the time to explain _one_ of these?"

I am in a _bad_ mood today, people.

I wish I could be in New York, it looks like fun. Air America is gonna be hopping this week.

But, the polls in swing states are scaring the fuck out of me.

Thanks for the info Dan. I'm not normally a guy who falls for the hype machine (although I have been burned by it. Damn you Phantom Menace!), though there are certain movies I've been looking forward to of late, Hero being one of them. Now that September is almost upon us I'm eager to catch Sky Captain and the World of Tomorrow and Shaun of the Dead. God bless genre cinema.

Stacy

On Ellison and Joyce

A story like "Jefty is Five" invites the reader into culture and concepts that have been swept away by time, and this can create various layers of emotional resonance for different readers. For the young reader today, Harlan gives enough clues about the pleasures of radio, pulps and comics that it is nearly impossible not to become intrigued and even nostalgic for something they never actually experienced in their young lives. For the older reader, every reference has intense impact because they are specific and precise representations of that era. Each detail becomes a baloon of experience, emotion and nuance that must be read deeply.

Joyce chose the "dramatic" approach to ULYSSES, which means he does not surround each detail with all of the narrative explanation that an epic style would offer. Fragments and details are left in front of the reader, and it is up to the reader to explore them and plum their depths. This, in Joyce's case, can make him dark, impenetrable and complex, but that's the whole fun. Like Shakespeare, it takes a lifetime to read Joyce. It is a never-ending process, and as we grow in experience and depth, so do Joyce and Ellison.

Hero
Stacy,
I mentioned Hero at the other board. At the risk of burying this film in hype, it IS everything you’ve heard and more. But forget about that and just go see it.

Our impressions of films can be so tainted by marketing that we soon lose the ability to separate the film from the marketing, e.g., The Blair Witch Project, which if seen in the absence of ANY marketing hype is a decent film. I’d also like to point out that the directors of Blair Witch had nothing to do with the marketing, and stated in interviews that they were annoyed/frustrated at the “scarier than the Exorcist!” blurbs that Artisan used because they knew it would backfire and only serve to invite criticism.
Dan

ReJoyce

For everyone who asks, "When is the MEFISTO IN ONYX movie coming out?", here's an instructive article by D.M. Thomas about the aborted effort to film his novel from the early 80's, THE WHITE HOTEL: http://film.guardian.co.uk/features/featurepages/0,4120,1292339,00.html



I first read ULYSSES when I was 14 or thereabouts; I say "read," even though I didn't actually go through it in anything approaching a linear or complete fashion. I skipped several chapters, skimmed others, and finished the rest completely out of its given order. As for COMPREHENDING what Joyce wrote, fugeddabowddit. Beyond a general impression of linguistic virtuosity, and a stunned amazement of the Nighttown sequence, I found the book impenetrable, though Molly Bloom's closing soliloquy was eye-opening in many ways.

Still, I felt I had experienced SOMETHING, even if I couldn't fully grasp it yet. I later became utterly besotted with his early collection DUBLINERS, and even memorized the sublime last paragraph of its most famous story, "The Dead." Joyce had infiltrated my psyche, and I always knew that ULYSSES deserved another try; not just a piecemeal romp in search of literary kicks, but a REAL, informed attempt to plumb its depths.

Well, a couple of years ago, I took a month out of the summer, and this time, I did it right. I boned up on Irish history at the turn of the millenium; I borrowed some guides to Joyce's work, including Harry Blamires's chapter-by-chapter exegesis of ULYSSES; I even downloaded a Dublin street map, just so I could knowledgeably follow Leopold Bloom's travels around the city.

And you know what? I STILL found sections of the book impenetrable, even a bit showoffy. (I'm thinking in particular of the infamous "Oxen of the Sun" chapter, where Joyce takes the reader on a chronological tour of the English language, writing the paragraphs in everything from latinate proto-English, to a "Beowulf"-style Anglo-Saxon, to an Elizabethan prose, to a Dickensian pastiche, and so on.) What Joyce was trying to do, and succeeded in doing, was nothing less than the fragmentation of the unified authorial voice, with every chapter written in a completely different style, depending on its situation and setting. Though impressive, it didn't always guarantee a smooth reading experience, and at times I missed the comparatively-clear writing of DUBLINERS.

And yet, in spite of the demands ULYSSES placed on me, I never found it boring, or wished I was reading something else, because no matter how byzantine the novel became, it was always infused with a passionate humanism that imbraced life in all its facets, even the most petty and squalid. For all his awesome erudition, I never felt that Joyce was looking down on his characters, never mocking them for their foibles or their moral failures, never denying them their hard-won dignity, however tarnished or compromised it might've become in the getting.

In every page, I could hear Joyce saying, "Don't look away or pretend you have nothing in common with these characters. Everything they've thought or done, you have, too. Can you honestly judge them, knowing that you're guilty of the same, or even worse?"

In the end, ULYSSES was one of those books that I can honestly say CHANGED me, even if I can't describe how. I felt that, instead of reading it, it had somehow read ME, had absorbed me into its universe and dropped me, ineffably different, back into my own. As much as I love literature, there are only a few works that I can claim have done the same: THE PAINTED BIRD, THE MAGIC BARREL, SURVIVAL IN AUSCHWITZ, A HIGH WIND IN JAMAICA, and a few others.

In the end, what more can we ask from a novel?

Right on. Always glad to hear of things going smoothly and according to plan. 5x5 all the way, that's always my hope.

So, anyone else intrigued by this new movie Hero? I know I want to see it, maybe catch it in a matinee. So far every preview I've seen for this flick has had me hominahomin' like crazy. It looks like the folks in the Kung Fu Action Cinema field are picking up the gauntlet thrown down by Peter Jackson with this offering, and I for one can't wait.

I just finished my viewing of the fourth (and sadly final) volume of Futurama DVDs. Man, if you haven't gotten a hold of these bad boys, you're missing out on some serio