Unca Harlan's Art Deco Dining Pavilion
LEE: I loved your story. Any chance I could read it to my students? I think they could profit from listening to it.
Steve Dooner
"nosey parkers"
>snork<
Oops, my bad. Told Harlan Lee was a female, some time ago. Don't know why I assumed that, but, well, we were both wrong.
Good on'ya, chappie.
Does that satisfy you nosey parkers?
Susan
Sorry if this has ben mentioned, but I didn't find anything in the archives. But _Slashdot_ (http://www.slashdot.com) is posting some news on the Ellison AOL lawsuit. The guy who posted the story wrote the following:
"An appeals court has issued a decision reversing the summary judgment of a lower court that AOL qualified as a "safe harbor" under the DMCA. At issue is the fact that Ellison sent his notification of copyright violation to an email address at AOL, which AOL never received because the abuse submission address had been changed."
There's lots of chatter about this on Slashdot, but a lot of it is from idiotic geeks whose grudges are inversely proptional to their understanding. But this seems like good news, and let's hope it contributes to Harlan's eventual victory.
Eyes of Dust online
Eyes of Dust is already available online (though not free) from www.fictionwise.com (along with over 30 more HE goodies). Cost is 69 cents and the downloaded file is easily readable with Palm Reader (a free download from www.palmdigitalmedia.com) on any PC, PocketPC, or Palm OS handheld, or with Adobe Acrobat reader, Microsoft Reader and some others. Believe the print collection that included it was I Have No Mouth & I Must Scream.
--tr
oops! sorry Alex Jay, ya caught that one already. My browser doesn't refresh as often as it should & I didn't see your post.
Lee's anecdote
"It was then that the Best Teacher I Ever Had fudged the papers to get me into a local college on Early Admissions; ..."
I hope the college had enough slots open so that the kids who didn't have teachers fudge their papers got in too.
Harlan, better check the archives for Lee's earlier posts (the trials of being a straight guy in the ballet) and remove the "girl"!
HARLAN: Lee's a guy.
REPLY TO HEATHER LOVATT:
Hi, kiddo. Uh, let me think on this for a day or so. I am, as you know, embroiled in an endless and exhausting piracy lawsuit against AOL and divers brain-cases who don't seem to understand that it's theft, just plain ole theft, when they post my work without my permission. And so, while I'm more or less secure that if I extend my specific permission to use "Eyes of Dust" for the sole purpose you propose, I'm compelled to endure the pain in the butt of contacting my attorney to make sure I'm not being a naive amateur and compromising my rights re the dreaded lawsuit. Just a question, however. The story is available in one of my collections (can't remember which one at the moment, but easy enough to get that iota to you). Wouldn't it be just easier and safer and a whole lot less make-work simply to loan her a copy of the book, or even to photocopy the story, and send the yarn to whomever by perfectly wonderful U.S. post or even by fax? Sometimes a straight line as the crow flies is the most direct and simplest way to get a simple job done, whaddaya think?
Doesn't ANYBODY understand that not everything needs to be done electronically? Sometimes change isn't progress. Sometimes the traditional methods are less time-consuming, less harrowing, more salutary.
Over to you, Heather.
Yr. pal, Harlan
LEE:
What a gahdamm sensational personal anecdote! Were I a writer, looking for that one perfect encapsulated explication of the real inner character of, well, of a character ... this story of your Machiavellian dedication to your personal survival and transcendence would be perfect, exactly perfect! I have led my own life by the secret tenets and parameters passim your story, and I cannot even BEGIN to express my admiration for your smart and tenacious pursuit of viability! For all who lament "bad luck" or "chance" or "they was all against me" or "my mommy locked me in the basement, how could I ever reach my full potential with such an abusive background," I say ... within Lee's story lies the secret, the mythical totem, for achieving the Life You Deserve, not just the Life You're Stuck With. Oh yeah! As we say downunder in Oz, good on'ya, girl.
Nakedly huzzahing, Yr. pal, Harlan
Not required?
Harlan:
To further entice you, go look at (and comment, if you wish, she's complaining to me, in notes, just now, of not getting enough--sure you know how that feels *grin*) my friend, Laura.
But don't mention her age. You're not supposed to know. She's much OLDER, you see, so you think she's important. *grin*
Go look at Laura, who, in our devspeak, here at dA, is devecru at this link:
http://ecru.deviantart.com
Thanks for reading.
H
Name That Thoroughbred
CINDY: Howzabout "Paris Match" for a champeen horse's name? Not only will it have a literary connection (the French magazine that's a combination of "Life" and "Time"), it will also allude to your daughter, another winner that comes from fine stock.
--DTS
Frank: I didn't infer you were a communist, I was merely kidding you as being too far left for my tastes. I'm sorry, and I'll play nice from now on. I don't want you to get your buddy Noam Chomsky to be coming over every year, haranging me for buying Girl Guide cookies while knowing that the Keebler Elves were being forced to work at slave wages by Kathy Lee Gifford.
Rick: Best wishes for Homer's recovery from myself and my erstwhile compatriot in all things malfeasant, the redoubtable Jack Russell terrier Disraeli.
M
Eyes of Dust
Harlan...
I don't know if you're around these days, (and I hope you are well, sire), but I've found some artists/writers who may be interested in you and your attitude/thinking/writing. Could I show them "Eyes of Dust" online?
I can do one of three things: Type up this short story and show it to Laura (my original intent) in email--she alone. A Dostoevsky fan at fourteen who draws dark, skanky, savvy females like a dream--you'd like her.
Or show it to others I think might enjoy the story and its mythic self-import.
OR, I could post it on a sub-WEB I am noodling with at a place called deviantart.com. It is a WEB of a combination of visual (mostly, at present) and verbal artists of the transient, teener age (ie. 14-34, weighted heavier on the angsty 18 and under--your balliwick, I believe. *grin*)
I shall try you back here soon for a reply, okey dokey?
Thanks. Go sweetly.
Heather Lovatt
Cindy's Request
Cindy,
Hi, you don't know me, but I read your post asking for suggestions for your newborn. How does Hummingbird's Shadow sound?
Congrats to you and Paris, by the way. I'm glad the parent-teacher-student meeting went well. Like many others here, I had a gross negative experience in every public school I attended, with few and remarkable exceptions of several memorable teachers. I wish my parents had been more involved in the process, but they were young and without any significant educational backgrounds themselves, and didn't know how they could help.
-Keith
Lee: I'm always shocked when I hear stories like yours. "I will screw up your plans because I CAN"... how do these people end up in the teaching profession?
She was probably jealous because you were smarter than she was. Probably spent her spare time teasing and tormenting small children, elderly people, and furry woodland creatures.
And that was a HELL of a good topic choice, especially for way-back-when.
Cindy:
I’m glad things worked out at school. I had a much different experience when I was an eleventh grader. I didn’t like any of the term paper topics offered so I did mine on “The Moral and Theological Implications of Cloning.” This was in the mid-seventies when there wasn’t much material on it, so I made my own sources by interviewing various local religious and civil authorities to get their ideas and opinions.
The paper was good for at least a “C”, but I got flunked for using unapproved resources.
The teacher had meant for this to be a character building gesture; a couple of weeks in summer school to reflect on the need for doing what The Authorities tell you to do, then graduate, pick a topic from the college menu of life-skills and come out the other end as a nicely polished cog ready to be slotted into the complex machinery of modern society. The problem was, I already had a scholarship for that summer to train at the School of American Ballet in NY. So the implications of the teacher’s move shifted from doing summer school to not getting to graduate on time.
You’d think SOMEONE could have convinced the teacher to back off, but parents and principal together were unable to budge the teacher’s position, which had settled in around “I have the right to assign the grade that I think is appropriate.” It was then that the Best Teacher I Ever Had fudged the papers to get me into a local college on Early Admissions; by the time the college figured out I wasn’t qualified I already had a 3.3 average in advanced placement courses and I was quitting at the end of the year anyway to become a dancer. So the college let me finish out the year.
After dancing I needed some more college, but at 10 years out of school and with no high school diploma, I was informed by the front office admissions counsellors that “my qualifications did not indicate any reasonable proability for success in the demanding curriculum that I was planning to persue.”
The second time around I didn’t bother arguing with them. I got into that college using a combination of direct negotiation with the head of the deparment of engineering, a math class in a community college and a nudge to the admissions department from a member of the board of trustees in the ballet company that I was dancing in at the time, who was a good friend of the president of the university. I graduated 4.0 and number one in my class, got a National Science Foundation Fellowship and Uncle Sam paid for my Masters. I stopped there to start earning money again, as the first kid was on the way.
I mention all this because my attitude toward the bone-heads of this world is formed around this experience. Energy is what gets life lived, and the minimum energy path past the idiots leaves you with the most energy left to experience all the good things in this world. Sometimes the low energy path is indeed over or through the clods that impose themselves on our lives, but other times it’s best to just move quietly around them. It’s equally satisfying to leave them blinking in confusion as they choke on your trail dust.
Cindy: Are there any clever Texas-related themes you could pull off with the horse? There's always mythology, but I'd imagine there have been a lot of horses named Bucephalus and Pegasus. The Norse thingie I was just looking at yielded Gulltopp for one of the horses of the Aesir, which actually sounds sort of neat.
For comedic reasons, I was hoping that the second jpeg would show Homer with the entire box of Milkbones in his mouth.
Cheers, Jon
oddments
Cindy--my pick for a racehorse name is Eurassis Mine, but from what i have read you should somehow cleverly name it after mom and dad, correct? what are sire and dam's names? Good luck with the election.
Rick--That is one damn fine looking Homer you have there.
Alex--Tony mentioned Simenon--and that awesome suggestion reminded me of a more arcane European named Delacorta. He's got one name, he's hard to find, and he's worth the effort. Look for "Diva", "Nana", "Lola", "Vida" and "Alba" these are the adventures of Alba and Gorodish, and any fan of the (mystery) genre will find themsaelves in capable hands with the Swiss Delacorta (Daniel Odier), he wrote "The Job:Interviews with William S. Burroughs" under his given name.
At ya'lls service,
Neal
Best wishes to Signore Homer!
Also...Spring Break is coming up soon. So if any a youse have book recommendations...you'd do best to make wittum. New stuff, preferably. I haven't read any new stuff in a while. Not to sound like an undergraduate, but if it happened more than two weeks ago I'm not interested. I feel I'm a bit out of touch. Come to think of it, I haven't read any good speculative fiction in ages, either. Anything exciting happening on that front? I haven't the time to sift through any less-than-SPECTACULAR stuff these days, so I'd appreciate a few nudges in the right direction.
Thanks,
Justin
Cindy:
How about Ebony Blaze as the foal's name? Sounds fast and dark.
Rick:
I saw the photos of Homer and his milk bones. AWWWWWWWW. Makes me want to hug the big guy and give him a belly rub.
David Loftus:
Congrats on the new job!! Wish me luck.
Frank:
M called you a what??!!! A commie? naw. I don't remember that. Unless you're both joking in which case, HAHAHAHAHA!!!
Chuck
The Way of all horseflesh...
*** Cindy *** I always thought Antaeus would be a good name for a racehorse - particularly if the horse is a mudder. I say this despite the early incontrovertable photographic evidence that horses get all four feet off the ground at once in full gallop. Strength from the earth and all that. Just be sure to scratch if he has to go up against anything named Hercules. No point tempting fate, eh?
- Barney
Duh!
Sorry David, the Documentaryfilms.net in your post just sunk into my college-freshman-writing addled brain.
M
David Loftus: Will we be able to read your review online? I'm interested to hear your thoughts on Morris, McNamara et al. And congrats and good luck on your new job.
Not to kick a person when she's down, but watching the news tonight put me in mind of one of Harlan's favorite phrases. When we saw the verdict coming in on Martha Stewart, all I could do was turn to my wife and say, "Arrogant stupidity."
Later,
Mark
film technology
Mark Orr:
Regarding your intuition that silents and talkies are totally different aesthetic media . . . pick up a copy of Walter Kerr's magnificent book, _The Silent Clowns_.
Besides containing magnificent exegeses of the work of Chaplin, Keaton, Lloyd, Laurel & Hardy, and others -- lavishly illustrated -- he has a chapter in there which I dimly recall in which he points out that the studios had the technology to include sound in films long before it swept the industry in 1927 with "The Jazz Singer." And by long before, I mean decades. He argues that they REJECTED the technology, for reasons I think you'd find very interesting, given your ideas.
I saw "The Fog of War" on Tuesday and am nearly finished with my fairly lengthy review for DocumentaryFilms.net, and saw "Winged Migration" again last night so I could write that up too.
Also, thanks for the support, everybody. I start my new job on Monday.
Milk Bones
Glad Homer's doing well. When he's well enough, give him doggie noogies from us here along the Susquehanna.
Sorry for the quick second posting, but I just saw Rick's new Homer Pics:
Harlan/Susan - SMALL Milk Bones? Small? You couldn't find any of the supersize Milk Bones for Homer? He could probably snort those babies up his nose!
Just kiddin'! Very thoughtful of you.
-TODD
Frank, I read Fast Food Nation the week it came out in hardcover. It was fascinating, but you have me wrong: I've never eaten a McDee's Toadburger in my life. But, I HAVE eaten more than my fair share of McDee's Fries. Deeeelish, even if the secret really is artificial beef tallow flavoring.
The most intriguing section of that book concerns the how the artificial flavors in all of our foods are developed and used. Fascinating shit. Of course, the section on shitburgers (yup, literal shitburgers) was quite interesting as well....but I wouldn't just point the finger at McDee's on that one!
-TODD
M called me a communist. How childish is that? No one here is a bigger small 'd' democrat than I.
------------
No more head shots about my admiration of Sir. Chomsky. I admire his views, I do NOT worship him. The cult of personality is banal and tabloidish.
------------
Hitchens made the point about the Gibson movie being played in Islamic countries, not me.
And yes, Horowitz is defending the film. Shmooley Boteach called him a self hating Jew on Scarborough Country last night. You go Rabbi!
-------------
Todd, read the book, Fast Food Nation and tell me you still want to eat toad burgers.
***Thanks for the Homer updates and pics! He's so cute! I'm glad he's doing better. Of dogs:
- When all other friends desert, he remains.-
George G. Vest
The liberry will close in ten minutes
Jeff - shoot me an e-mail and I'll come up with something for you. I had to block a whole range of IP addresses the City of Philadelphia uses.
Harlan - Package arrived this afternoon - thanks for thinking of my wee boy. He's doing much better than last time. Of course, I supposed being excited to see a steady stream of piss coming out of your dog's wang instead of a dribble is the epitome of "lowered expectations." Here are a couple of pics of Homer enjoying his new treats:
Homer with his snacks
Homer chows down on a milk-bone
No Mr. Ed?
Cindy:
How about "Worth A Kingdom?" -- play on the line from Richard III.
Or "Mercurial Onyx"?
M
Chaplin, passings, mysteries and horses
Had I my druthers, I'd have the TV in the bedroom tuned to nothing but TCM. Wednesday night's Chaplin offerings were terrific. Gonna have to stock up on blank tapes before next Wednesday night.
I have managed to educate my kids to the wonders of old time radio, but they haven't yet learned to appreciate silents. I am working on it, though. It occurs to me that silents aren't just talkies without the talk. They're as different a medium from talkies as radio is from television, for the same reason. Both silents and radio demand more of the spectator than either talkies or TV do. Also, overall the films of the last few years of the silent era are just better movies than the first few years' worth of talkies, IMHO.
Kindly accept my own condolences for the passings of Messers Schwartz and Auer. I never met either of them, but I did write my own inadequate elegy for Mr. Schwartz as my editorial for the next issue of FUTURES Mysterious Anthology Magazine, for which I'm the senior mystery editor.
If I might toss one American into the mystery discussion (two, actually, as this is a sister act). I've been enjoying the books of P.J. Parrish of late. Her/their current offering is ISLAND OF BONES. Darn good reads. Had the pleasure of one half of the duo's company at last month's Sisters in Crime meeting in Nashville last month.
Cindy, a while back a challenge was put to me to write a poem about cheese. I was inspired, if that's the word, to write it as a B-western sort of thing I called COLBY LONGHORN AND MONTEREY JACK. Feel free to use either name, if the spirit moves you to do so.
A Clue to the Philadelphia Phantom Posters
If you're still looking for those Philadelphia phantom posters who were making you miserable the last couple of weeks, they were posting from the Free Library of Philadelphia, apparently.I say this because I, very innocently, tried to post from the library myself and got a message saying it was blocked. So, now I'm posting from work, which I might just get in a wee bit of trouble for doing. We'll see..Isn't there some way innocent, rational, respectful posters who don't own their own computers might still be able to post from the library? The few lunatics here in Philly are spoiling it for all of us! Gotta go now. Talk to you later ... I hope!
Alex Jay: You can always try Canada's T.F. Banks (a two-writer pseudonym) for The Thief Taker and The Emperor's Assassin, both part of an on-going series called 'Memoirs of a Bow Street Runner.' They're about law enforcement in early 19th century London. They're also realy handsomely designed paperbacks, if that means anything.
Alison Gordon (again, Canadian) wrote a number of baseball mysteries that include The Dead Pull Hitter and Safe at Home. And there's always Howard Engel.
Cheers, Jon
ALEX, add to your Brit list:
Derek Raymond ...a kind of British James Ellroy, best known for his Factory quintet: He Died With His Eyes Open, The Devil's Home on Leave, How the Dead Live, I Was Dora Suarez, and Dead Man Upright.
Frances Fyfield (a.k.a. Frances Hegarty) and Peter Dickinson are almost as discomfitting as Raymond - check out Fyfield's Blind Date and Dickinson's Hindsight.
And David Thomson wrote an incredible book that starts out as invented biographical entries of famous noir movie characters and reveals itself as a genuine mystery novel - that's called Suspects.
It's funny; of the American and British writers named below, I think I have multiple books by all but two of them. That's what happens when you have good library sales in town.
Here now; this strikes me as odd--I was just thinking how it is that I dislike British "cozy" mysteries, but have no such qualms about enjoying American tales of suburnban housewife detectives, as Jill Churchill, Gillian Roberts, and others write, and it hit me:
Have you noticed that literary genres--mystery, sf, fantasy, horror, romance--all contain many subgenres, while what's considered "literature" tends not to, unless it's of the historical or ethnicity based sort? Why is that, do you think, that we categorize and subcategorize our genres, while the supposedly straightforward tyopes of books do not? Is it a case of ghettoizing the ghettoes, do you think?
CINDY: If ever in this life I happen to own a horse, I'd either name him "Seizure" for a morbid little comment on my own disease, or "Paul Revere," for reasons obvious to those familiar with the work of Frank Loesser.
For you, however, I'm leaning toward "Keeping Up With," just for the double meaning. And it'd be that much better if your entire family is named as owner, so that the horse could be announced as they do in shows, with its name then that of the owners: "... Next is 'Keeping Up With,' the Joneses ..."
But there are LOTS of good horse names: "Barry Allen," "Rolling Thunder," "Atalanta," "Blurring the Edges" ...
No; you should name it "Man," for the simple reason of all the puns which are available to A Horse Called Man. If he wins a race by inches, that would be the Measure of a Man; if he's cantering downhill, it's The Descent of Man; if any foals he sires closely resemble him, you can point them out, saying, "Now isn't that just like a Man!"; When you commission work from the harnessmaker, you'll be getting an item that's made for a woman, but strong enough for a Man; and when you acquire a second racehorse, you can name him "Clark Kent" and thus be stabling Man and Superman; and so on.
Been off the board a while. Hello to all.
Belated condolences to the friends & families of Mr. Schwartz & Mr. Auer.
You Chaplin fans will want to catch TCM's Chaplin programming, Wednesday nights this month.
Non-U.S./British mystery writers? In case nobody's mentioned Georges Simenon yet, add him to the list. Check out his non-series work too, not just the Maigret novels.
--tr
GUY: Tom Auer -- 1953-2003.
RICK: Susan and I sent a small "get well soon" gift to Homer. How's he doing?
Yr. pal, Harlan
Harlan,
I'm so sorry about y'all's friend,Tom.
I hope Ed is well. I think about him. I was sorry to hear about his father as well. Please tell him I said hello, if you talk to him.
Cindy
Rick,
I hope Homer's recovery is only remarkable in it's brevity.
yer pal,
Cindy
Dorman,
Thank you kindly. I'm glad you liked it. I liked what you wrote too.
:)
Jon Bell,
Paris giggled and grinned at what you wrote.
Mike,
Thank you too!
Dorman,
Don't be scarce.
:)
br>
Chuck,
Quinn says that cow thing sounds like Blackleg-- he said he's never seen it but the old timers say they'll drop like flies if they contract it. We vaccinate for that.
I enjoyed your list of teachers.
My favorite teachers... Mrs. Varenkamp from second grade. She appreciated my individuality. Most teachers would have been annoyed. The children in the class filled out a survey with the question; what do you like best about second grade? My response was, " The hummingbirds outside the window."
Mr.Schultz because he gave me a 100 on my report I gave before the class, after the other three girls complained bitterly that by placing me in their group they were going to make lower grades. Of course my report DID kick ass-- it was about the reason elephants no longer have wings. I'll never forget the expressions on the faces of those other girls when I stepped up to the front with (GASP) no 3X5 cards. I knew the material and I didn't need them. After I made the only 100 in the class they complained about that too- THEY had 3X5 cards. I said, " But MY report didn't put anyone to sleep."
Mrs. Eichenbaum because she allowed me to do the "A" student project even though I was a "D" student. It was against the rules but she bent them because I was inspired by something on the "A" student list. In the end she wrote that my project ( a diary of Penelope) was her favorite of all the "A" student projects.
Best of all was my high school Counselor Toody Byrd. She was the one who told me that I'd never finish the correspondence course that would satisfy my 1/4 credit deficit in Government for graduation. She was the one who tried to insist that I stick around a little longer in school rather than marrying the pretty boy I had found in Colorado, over summer vacation. I assured her I'd be fine. It was right before the Christmas holidays and I didn't intend on coming back to school. After all, I was 17 and my wedding was going to take place on March 20 and what was I going to need with Government when I was a married woman with a bunch of babies to play with? I told her if it was that important to her that I finish that correspondence course I'd do it. She said she knew I would not. She was right.
Mrs. Byrd was also the one who sent me my diploma ( dispite the missing 1/4 credit) with a note that said, " I missed your pretty, smiling face at graduation."
:)
Oh, and Chuck; Paris says thank you.
:)
Cindy
Neal,
I'm doing that right now! I'm sorry it's taken me so long but I've been up to my eyeballs in alligators right now because of this election and I haven't had a minute to slow down or think.
:)
Thanks so much!
Cindy
A QUESTION FOR ALL OF Y'ALL...
My thoroughbred racehorse foaled on Monday. It was a perfect stud colt bred to fly. I think he's going to be black like his sire.
What would be a good name for a triple crown winner?
All suggestions will be most gratefully received.
:)
DTS writes:
Joe R. Lansdale's "Hap & Leonard," [novels and]Dan Simmons has been writing a fun line of novels: HARD CASE, HARD FREEZE and HARD AS NAILS...to be followed with HARD DAY'S DYING later this year -- his brother calls it the "viagra" series).
========
I'll second that. Lansdale's Hap & Leonard books are some of the rare breed that have made me laugh so hard I cried. Literally. And Simmons' Joe Kurtz books are excellent. I haven't read the third one yet (waiting for it to get into softcover) Pronzini's "Nameless Detective" books are pretty good, too.
I'm not sure if he qualifies as an excusively mystery/crime novelist or not, but I'd recommend Elmore Leonard. I just LOVED "Get Shorty".
M:
"For me, the delight is Wally's, where one gets a massive plate of silver dollar fries drenched in five-alarm chili and sour cream, and then smothered in mozzarella cheeze for only $5.65. Fifty cents extra gets you a side of french-fried Caribbean pepper slices, a good nosh alongside the feast."
Egad! I can feel my arteries clog just reading that! Sound yummy, though.
And now, after my story of the Teacher from Hell, here is my list of some of the best teachers I've had:
Mrs. Lucid, 3rd grade. I wish I had more teachers like her. She got me all straightened out on arithmetic.
Robert Bannister, 6th grade. He genuinely cared about his students, but was never wishy-washy. He had a reputation for being strict, but he was not really a hard-ass. He went on to be a director at the Bonfils theater in Denver. One of my heros.
Roger Autrey, Evergreen High School. One of the two best History teachers in that school. He made history come to life by showing it was more than a bookful of factoids. He linked historical events together, fleshed out the personalities of the historical figures. He gave us the big picture and brought the past to life.
Mr. Mativi, Evergreen. He was the other of the two best teachers. Like Mr. Autrey, he gave us a living history, one that gave students the experience of learning as a satisfying, fulfilling excercise.
Mr. Preston, who taught English. Didn't turn it into a dead language as some teachers can. He also taught a course titled, "Humor and Satire", which he definitely fit: He looked like a cross between Groucho Marx and Ernie Kovacs.
Mrs. Leclerc, Evergreen. Made English a creative and competitive exercise while we learned our vocabulary and diagrammed sentences.
Raymond Jennings, Evergreen. English, again. Taught us how to write in a clear, consise fashion, and taught a section on Science Fiction.
And the best school official I ever met: Mr. Zan Smith, Evergreen Jr. High School. He had a reputation as a hard-ass. My friend Tony could do a dead-on impression of Mr. Smith that could stampede a hall full of loitering students. I had a few one-on-one meetings with him, though. I found out he was so strict because he genuinely cared about the students. He wanted them to learn. He cared about all of us.
Treasure the top teachers and anyone who works the system for the good of the students.
Chuck
AlEX JAY: Answered your question while still pooped and weary from fighting a min-basement flood. Minette Walters is the only non-American mystery writer on my list -- but I stand by all the rest if you haven't read them.
DTS (Rick: sorry for the double;I'll be scarce for a few days)
Mystery fiction
Alex Jay
Add Henning Mankell and Robert Van Gulik to your list of non American/British mystery writers.
Colleen
Not ain't that truly cool
In regards to the Ain't-It-Cool news about the whole Alan Moore-Hellblazer imbroglio…visit Neil Gaiman's journal for the real news behind the so-called news. Neil is a very, very, very close friend of Moore so he's got far much better insight on this than Harry Knowles' cadre of fan boys. Go to www.neilgaiman.com for more info.
Alejandro
Mystery writers
ALEX JAY: Not sure if you were the one whom Harlan turned onto _DECEMBER 6th_ by Martin Cruz Smith, but I recommend ALL of his novels. His Arkady Renko series (_Gorky Park_, _Polar Star_, _Red Square_, and the recent _Havana Bay_) is terrific; but the stand-alones (_Dec. 6th_, _Rose_, _Stallion Gate_, _Nightwing_) are simply excellent. And if you can dig up early books like _Gypsy in Amber_, _Canto for A Gypsy_, or even _The Indians Won_, do so. After that, check out anything by Minette Walters, Nevada Barr and Carol O'Connell. Joe R. Lansdale's "Hap & Leonard," East TX mystery series is always lots of fun (Savage Season, Mucho Mojo,The Two-Bear Mambo, Bad Chili, Rumble Tumble, Captains Outrageous). (If you're ever in the mood for tough-guy, crime fiction ala Richard Stark, Dan Simmons has been writing a fun line of novels: HARD CASE, HARD FREEZE and HARD AS NAILS...to be followed with HARD DAY'S DYING later this year -- his brother calls it the "viagra" series).
--DTS
http://www.cnn.com/2004/SHOWBIZ/Movies/03/04/britain.awards.awards.ap/index.html
I wonder if they will include the Hugos and Nebulas.
-TODD
Hello folks,
Alex Jay's query about non-U.S./British mystery writers put me in mind immediately of Stanislaw Lem's THE INVESTIGATION. I bought my copy some years ago at Uncle Hugo's, which is now, as I understand it, the oldest science fiction bookstore in the country. Lem is known for his science fiction, certainly, but this title demonstrates that, like our host, he is master of more than one domain.
Paul
Mysteries and more
ALEX JAY--a mystery writer not to be missed is Stanley Ellin. If memory serves, Harlan's recommended him, too, so there are better pedigrees than my paltry stamp of approval. He was a terrific writer, who rarely indulged in series work, but created marvelous characters each time out. I particularly recommend his "House of Cards," if you can find it.
Also K.C. Constantine, but not for the mystery element so much. His Rocksburg novels are marvels of characterization and ethnic dialogue.
Brian, I could be wrong, but I dimly recall that when Robert Shaw rejected the screen credit for "The Man in the Glass Booth," he also rejected the money. Either way, I thought he was dead wrong, and that the film was a terrific adaptation of his own play (and novel). Still, the man was an actor as well as a writer, and he may have had a particular interpretation in mind, one that Maximillian Schell rejected in his portrayal. (Many years later, there was a godawful Star Trek, Deep Space Nine that ripped off the story, and did so very badly indeed.)
ALEX
I discovered two mystery writers suggested by Philip Jose Farmer on his webpage.
Arthur Ypfield was born in Britain but spent a large part of his life in Australia.His Inspector Napoleon (Bony) Bonaparte mysteries are very good.
Janwillem Van de Watering is a Dutch mystery/police procedural and is very cool.
(Jet me an email, Alex, and I will gladly tell you where you can find these cool things in great abundance.)
So far as James Ellroy is concerned...right on with the right on.
French Fries with gravy is called "wet fries" and I get 'em at the diner in downtown Sierra Vista, and they is goodly. I likes to dip 'em. I need some NOW.
CINDY: email me
INgrammatically,
Neal
Alex: I know, what a travesty to subject a perfectly good fried potato to immersion benath a blob of dank brown gelatinous substance rank with a psuedo-meat odor. The sight of the brutal abuse of spuds in such fashion often leaves me running around the food court of our local mall, doing my best impression of Phil Hartman doing his best impression of Chuck Heston:
"PEEEEEEPULLLLL!!!! IT"S MADE OUT OF PEEEEEEEPULLLLL!!!!!
I do leave politely when I'm asked by security.
And, I'm still trying to figure out what the hell poutine is. To Shrub, it was the name of our Prime Minister (Thanks to Rick Mercer for that little hoot!)
For me, the delight is Wally's, where one gets a massive plate of silver dollar fries drenched in five-alarm chili and sour cream, and then smothered in mozzarella cheeze for only $5.65. Fifty cents extra gets you a side of french-fried Caribbean pepper slices, a good nosh alongside the feast. Those with any history of gastric distress should avoid at all cost.
Mystery Writers: Bill Prozini, Fredric Brown (collect the "Fredric Brown in the Detective Pulps" series), Lawrence Block (who edited the FB series), Larry Niven's Gil Hamilton/ARM stories.
M
HARLAN,
Thanks for telling us about your friend and our buddy, Tom Auer.
Best,
Ray
Other Mystery Recommendations
ALEX,
Welcome to the Wolfe Pack...I can also recommend without hesitation: James Ellroy (whose birthday is today!), Gregory McDonald (the Fletch and Inspector Flynn novels), James M. Cain, Steve Thayer (Saint Mudd, The Weatherman, Silent Snow, The Wheat Field), Jack O'Connell (Box Nine, Wireless and The Skin Palace), Eric Ambler, George V. Higgins and Ross MacDonald.
There, that should keep you busy for a while.
Chris M.
Department of History Repeating Itself Department:
Over at Ain't It Cool News, they're reporting the following:
"After reviewing the script and casting of HELLBLAZER, Comic Kingpin Alan Moore has done the unthinkable. He's washed his hand of the entire debacle. That's right- he's instructed DC to NOT credit him as the creator of the character. And putting his money where his mouth is, he has instructed that the royalties that he was splitting with his co-creators goes EXCLUSIVELY to the artists, Veitch and Bissette.
Often we hear about an artist upset that his creation has been butchered but this is the first I can recall where the creator asked that both name and money be rejected."
Well, I'm sure we here at Ellison Wonderland can recall a precedent for Moore's protest, involving a Canadian SF show and Mr. Cordwainer Bird.
Mystery Writers
Alex Jay: Ed McBain, Donald Westlake, the four "Hoke Moseley" novels of Charles Willeford, the Butch Karp novels of Robert K. Tannenbaum (must be read in order), Carl Hiassen, Bill Fitzhugh, Jack Ketchum (shelved as horror; try his short story collection, PEACEABLE KINGDOM).
I am spacing out the name of the writer who wrote two novels, THE BAKER BOYS and THE CARETAKER. Nobody will ever compare either book to real life; the plots are wildly, deliberately improbable. In the first, two identical twins share one life and family in alternating months; complications ensue until just about everybody who would be affected by this secret, including a couple of mortal enemies, converges by sheer accident on the same floor of the same luxury hotel on the same night. Wild.
Also: Cornell Woolrich, Tim Dorsey (whose novels must also be read in order), John Katzenbach, Jonathan Kellerman...
...good start...
Just Curious...
Harlan,What are your thoughts on the news from NASA regarding "water on Mars"? Being that I've been reading Science Fiction and a big Astronomy buff since I was 2 it was sorrta "I knew it all along" reaction. Just curious as to what your thoughts are? Take care & stay cool!
John Pickett
Tom Auer
Harlan -- I'll be glad to include a mention of Mr. Auer in the Noreascon memorials page. Do you know the year of his birth?
M: C'maaann ... you guys eat fries with GRAVY, man ...(*)
(And really; if people eat the fodder at McToadburger's Wild Ride, it's almost a given that they deserve what they get)
(*) But then, I'm a sucker for Flamer's Cajun fries, which I get mit extra, extra, extra Cajun Spice (read: salt, cayenne, a little garlic, little parsley, little oregano) and piled high with sliced cherry peppers ...
HARLAN: Those who love the Printed Word are always of note, and should never go unnoted.
CHUCK: Though Sir Stephen's condition was described as "stable" as of last week, it looks as if his wife may well be abusing him, for all that he denies it. I dearly do hope that the police allegations are untrue; it bodes ill for one of the premier minds of our time, already hobbled by the disease-ravaged body it's bound in, to be the recipient of a particularly cruel case of someone else's Munchausen Syndrome by Proxy.
Couple things I wanted to get everyone's opinion on:
DISCOVERING THAT WHICH IS ALREADY FOUND: It's always a pleasure when I happen upon a great writer with a large and exquisite oeuvre which I've not read before. Late last year, I finally got around to Rex Stout, and have since devoured books of his in the double digits. Right now, after much urging from my sister (whose taste and brilliance by now I shouldn't doubt--it was she who opened her bookshelf and the joys of science fiction and fantasy to me, nigh on three decades back), I'm finally getting 'round to Dorothy Sayers. I'd only read a couple translations Ms. Sayers did of Greek classics, but it seems sure that the ten or so books of hers on my shelves won't stay unread long.
(I guess I stayed away from her work because of my disdain for "cozies," those bloodless and oh-so-veddy culturedmysteries with dowager detectives and ever-so-precise Belgians. Don't like Dame Agatha much, I'm afraid. But Sayers' Harriet Vane and Lord Peter Wimsey are a fine British counterpart to Nick and Nora Charles, and a great joy to follow (I just wish I knew more Latin and more of the classics, that I might better grasp the Thirties Oxonian influence).
As I often find in mystery fiction depths which seem to go unplumbed in mainstream literature (just look at the insights to be found in a John D. McDonald or Sharyn McCrumb book), can anyone recommend any mystery writers NOT of the States or the British Isles? I have a book or two by Finns Maj Sjowall and Per Wahloo, but haven't yet gotten to it (my next "new" writer to try will, I think, be Chester Himes)--any suggestions from the gallery?
ROBINSON'S RECOGNITION: Bud Selig (From the heart of hell, I stab at thee! For hate's sake, I spit my last breath at thee!) just declared that now and evermore, April 15th will be Jackie Robinson Day in Major League Baseball. I honestly don't know how I feel about this. Lord knows I've waxed rhapsodic about the diamonded sport at great and nauseating length here and elsewhere--and it's a great thing to see Jackie's achievements and perserverance get recognition outside of February and Token History Month (and for that matter, what the hell's with March as "Women's History Month"? Fifty-two percent of the population--and you get a whole month! Whoo!), I have to wonder: What about Larry Doby? Wasn't it almost as difficult for him to endure? And hell; it wasn't easy for Don Newcombe, or Roy Campanella, either. But more, what about those legends who never even got to The Show, like Cool Papa Bell or Josh Gibson? And hey; why can't the Supreme Court declare a Thurgood Marshall Day?
I understand that Stephen Hawking is in the hospital. I don't know much beyond that, except that it seems serious. Not that the man hasn't beat the odds all bloody up unitl now, but I hope he manages to hang in there a little longer. We need as many living voices for reason as possible.
Here in Colorado, 12 cattle died within two hours about 24 to 48 hours ago. No further details.
The two stories are not related, as far as I know.
Chuck
Loved the interview with Mr. Ellison in The Bloomsbury Review that was published about 12-13 years ago. Still have it nestled in my collection of Ellisonia.
Today would be the birthday of Tom Auer, my friend, and the creator/publisher/editor of The Bloomsbury Review, had he not untimely died much too young last year. And Ed Bryant and I know most, if not all, of you didn't know Tom; but he was our buddy, and a remarkable human being, and an outstanding man of letters who merely LOVED the written word when it was proffered with skill and heart ... and so I note him here today because, well, I guess somebody SHOULD.
Sighing softly, Harlan
Todd:
"In the news: McDonald's to phase out super-sizing in 2004.
Yup, more proof that people today can't control their own lives so they need the big bad corporation to control it for them.
Then again, it could be a big conspiracy to force those without willpower to simply order TWO larges, thus getting fatter and fatter and spending more and more money."
Just a bit more information, Todd:
http://www.6URL.com/QP
I draw your attention to the second paragraph:
"The size of the biggest order of fries sold by the fast-food chain, at six ounces, won't change in this country. McDonald's Canada admitted today they're just changing the name for it back to 'large'."
It'll be the same stratregy for the drinks too. Relax, Todd, it's only for Canada. Apparently, McD's has more concern for the health of Americans than us obese hosers.
At least us hosers who don't deny themselves the artery-clogging futility of comsuming one of their double-cheeze shitburgers.
Now, the other side: Frank, I've got you pegged as either a mole for the Shrub/Cheney Re-election campaign (don't you long for the good old days when Republicans could find a good and fitting acronym like C.R.E.E.P.?), the money earned forming a good wage padder alongside your day job as counsellor at the G. Gordon Liddy daycare center (Have your kid in by nine, and we'll have 'em brainwashed by five!), or a former member of the Politburo trying desperately to bring back a taste of your former glory by getting the Moscow Wal-mart to honour the party member discount on your faded G.U.M. card. I haven't quite made up my mind yet.
Perhaps you and Todd are one and the same. I've never seen the two of you in the same place at the same time.
M
> Not sure what the insinuation is...can you explain further. The statement seemed to have a discriminatory tone and unclear if that was the aim.
I think it means that even a lefty like Frank is honest enough to recognize that the Muslim world is a hotbed of anti-Semitism that makes most of Western - and Eastern - Europe look like the Upper West Side, and that Gibson's film (which, according to reliable sources, is full of the crudest images this side of Der Sturmer) is likely to stoke the fires of bigotry. (And when that happens it'll be fun to read David Horowitz explaining away his support of Mel Gibson.)
Frank sez: "Imagine when that movie goes into Islamic countries. Scary days." (The quote was deleted for some strange reason)...sorry
Frank sez: > Not sure what the insinuation is...can you explain further. The statement seemed to have a discriminatory tone and unclear if that was the aim.
Infomite (whoever you are):
You'll notice that I did not use quotations in my summation of the ad--I did not intend to quote it directly but to address its subtext. You are right, however, that the lawyers did vet the ad so that the Pepsi Cola does not actually advocate theft in precise language, but the meaning is entirely clear. The creation of a contest that feeds off the culture of theft and irresponsibility is sickening. Cola companies know they have to market to the young and so giving sanction to youthful criminality seems to be the new ploy of the vacuous moussed haircuts that run that company.
Ever the kurmudgeon,
Steve Dooner
Homer update
For those that have been asking...
The second surgery went great and Homer was actually able to come home this morning instead of spending an extra day in the clinic like he did last time. He had a better recovery and less swelling than with the right leg, which leaves me hopeful we won't have the same nightmare we had last time. He's on the guest bed now sleeping off the morphine. Had a BITCH of a time getting him there. More info at http://homerdog.com/tplo
Jim Carrey
He's interviewed in the March issue of Playboy, and the "Lex Luthor look" is part of his preparation to play the evil uncle in the new Lemony Snicket movie.
Warm Regards,
Neal
Hi Cindy
A-TC wrote concering Moore's getting stomped by the elephant at the beginning of the Oscars telecast:
"For that two seconds also carried the message: ha ha ha, never mind, I was just being a wacky guy...never mind."
Hmmm. I believe I understand what you're saying and I think you are correct when you recount Hoffman's reasons for not being part of a joke or skit, but I also think that Moore getting stomped by the elephant has more to do with a joke at the Academy as opposed to trivilializing Moore's validity in regards to his statements at the Oscars in 2003. I think Moore's statements are very much as true then as they are now and I don't think being part of the joke vindicates any assumption of him being a wacky guy.
HOWEVER...
Your broader point does bear some thinking through and I think if someone looks as if they're "joking" too many times, no matter the validity of their statements, they soon cease to be considered "serious". I think Moore's schtick is what makes Moore Moore, but if you have a President talking about the seriousness of violence in the Middle East and then promptly saying, "Watch this drive." as he swings the golf club then I think it does show that President's irresponsibility towards whatever subject he was talking about---in that case, the Middle East.
I think what separates the two (and I used the President 'cause it was the only thing I could think of at the top of my head; I'm not trying to make a statement one way or the other regarding his Presidency---even though he's a moron and the worst President ever---now, that's a statement) is the perception of power of the person making the statements and the jokes.
On the one hand, you have a President of the United States---unarguably leader of the strongest and richest country on Earth---talking about how terrible the situation is in another part of the world and then seeming to casually dismiss the very valid, compassionate remarks with one swing of a golf club; and on the other hand you have a self-deprecating filmmaker who is known for his liberal views, but also for his sense of humor and is not a leader or president or CEO of anything other than himself and so is making fun of nothing more than his posturing in front of an audience that booed him first time around.
I think it's this perception that indicated it was the right thing to do for Abbie Hoffman to balk at being part of Mike Douglas' joke since Hoffman is, and was, considered one of the leaders of a so-called counter-cultural revolution. Leaders can joke around, but they better not do it in regards to their *work* or what they stand for.
I think Moore is a gadfly. Being a gadfly gives one some leeway in joking around or being self-deprecating.
Cindiana Jones:
Consider yourself and Paris high-fived. Then low-fived, and then backwards. Telling the truth until they listen is the way to go.
Chuck
P.S. As far as the Oscars are concerned, I think Belleville Rendezvous should have won best song. I also liked the presentation of the Achievment award to Blake Edwards. And what's with Jim Carey's Lex Luthor look?
Please, You Must Stop Me From Eating
In the news: McDonald's to phase out super-sizing in 2004.
Yup, more proof that people today can't control their own lives so they need the big bad corporation to control it for them.
Then again, it could be a big conspiracy to force those without willpower to simply order TWO larges, thus getting fatter and fatter and spending more and more money.
It's like me saying: Hey, Rick, please shut down the board because the 10+ minutes a day I may spend on it is forcing me to spend less quality time with my wife and pug pups.
-TODD
pleasepleasepleaseplease
i don't know the names of any of the hollywood deities, but i implore someone to please lift up pleasant sacrifices to same. that we may implore them not to allow someone screw up "Princess of Mars". pleasepleaseplease?
Cindy--gurl, ya'll gwine ta emayull me or wutt? eye will need ya'lls mailin' ADDress.
Sincerely,
Neal
I'm watching the fun NASA briefing right now, and I have to wonder just how many stories, articles, and blogs will reference the last line of Sturgeon's "The Man Who Lost the World."
But the news from NASA isn't the only great Mars news this week:
... well, not Mars so much as "Barsoom."
Reports have come out that after director Robert Rodriguez does a SIN CITY film based on the comics of, and in collaboration with, Frank Miller (Yay!), he'll be tackling Burroughs' PRINCESS OF MARS. And the fact that Rodriguez was just at the Frazetta Museum and had a good long conversation with the Great and Powerful Fraz himself ... this could be very, very good.
Yea, Ebert had monkey boy in tow on Leno last night, Praising the hell out of Gibson's monstrous jew hate bilge. He is sick, so I will give him a bit of slack. But, monkeyboy, I just give him the knuckle fandango.
Imagine when that movie goes into Islamic countries. Scary days.
--------------
Prince is on Ellen 2morrow. Yeeeehawww.
Paris in the Almost-Spring Time
CINDY: Great story. Paris sounds like a winner. I'm always amazed at how much I love my daughter. It really is _different_ from the love one feels for a spouse, relative or good friend. And I'm always taken aback when I meet a parent -- it's always obvious when I do -- who doesn't feel this sort of all-consuming, never-ending love for their child. Absolutely nothing I have experienced in life -- from wild, lust-filled romances to the adrenaline-pumping, life-risking stunts and adventures undertaken in my adolescence, teens and early twenties -- has ever compared to the roller coaster ride of raising and loving a child. It's the best.
--DTS
REPLY TO BRIAN SIANO:
You weren't hallucinating. I was indeed thanked from the stage of the Oscars some years ago. By the winner of the Academy Award for Best Live Short Film. Her name was Shelley Levinson and it was I who got her out of an abusive marriage in New York, got her safely to Los Angeles, housed her till she got on her feet, fulfilled her lifelong dream of being a film director by using my influence as an instructor at the American Film Institute to get her enrolled there, and kept her afloat financially by having her do the production on my first HERC recordings. She and I and Susan remain friends with her to this day; she is a terrific and funny lady; and a real pal.
So she thanked me when they gave her the Oscar.
As she was staying here at the time, she brought it home and I got to heft it. Damn skippy it's heavy.
Yrs. in Gibson, Harlan
NASA to Announce “Significant Mars Findings” Today
-- First: NASA is supposed to announce “significant findings” from the Mars probes (Opportunity in particular) today at 2:00 Eastern. The announcement almost certainly involves the presence of water in Mars’ past, but many sharp observers have noted that there appears to be brine – extremely salty water – under the duracrust surface of Mars. This brine can stay in a liquid state under much colder temperatures than fresh water. (Others have noted that, when the rovers have dug trenches, not only do they look dark (muddy!) but they later become very shiny. Are they finally freezing when exposed above the duracrust?
http://news.yahoo.com/fc?tmpl=fc&cid=34&in=science&cat=mars_exploration
Here's something else: the presence of this brine doesn't necessarily rule out the existence of life on Mars; there are tiny organisms on Earth called halophiles that thrive in extremely salty conditions (indeed, they'll die if exposed to fresh water.)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halophile
-- Tom C. and others re: the “Jewish Cowboy comments…” Yep, I absolutely thought “Whoa – it’s Bucky Goldstein!” when I met “Grandpa” (see my earlier post.) He was a charming elderly man, and Joan and I appreciated his warmth and desire to see us join their gathering on Saturday morning.
-- Cindy: “I tell the truth until they hear me.” That is one of the smartest, wisest, coolest quotes I’ve heard in a long time. Please give your daughter a hug from me and tell her that she’s a good kid. As the saying goes, if you always tell the truth, you can always remember what you said.
-- The Oscars: Although I’ve never been able to get past the first 2 pages of “Lord of the Rings” (I’ve been a huge SF fan my entire life, but I’ve never gotten into D&D-type fantasy, period), I’ve enjoyed the LOTR films quite a bit, and think that they’re stunning achievements. I’m glad ROTK won, and I *love* the Annie Lennox song “Into the West” – it brings tears to my eyes when I hear it.
-- Slight movie rant: “Lost in Translation” should get the “Most Overrated Film of the Year” award, IMO. I’m sorry, but this slightly amusing, often dull, and somewhat bigoted film simply wouldn’t have gotten made if the writer/director wasn’t Francis Ford Coppola’s daughter. For Anglos to make fun of the way Asians speak – the old “flied lice” routine -- isn’t witty or amusing; transpose those scenes with WASPs making fun of black street talk, or Yiddish, or Southern drawls, or the musical rhythms of Eastern Indian speech, and you’d get a lot of people pissed off, and rightly so. I went to see this movie with a great deal of anticipation, and left bored and in a sour mood. My wife liked it slightly more, but we both agreed: If you want to see a much better rendition of what “Translation” was trying to do, i.e, present the delicate relationship of two people finding each other for a brief time, in a foreign land, go see Richard Linklater’s vastly superior “Before Sunrise.” (A continuation of this story is coming out this year called “Before Sunset,” and we’re looking forward to it.)
-- A trailer for a movie rant: Evil films? When I get more time, I’ll post my frothing-at-the-mouth rant about one of my most loathed films – “Sleepless in Seattle,” one of the absolute worst “romantic comedies” ever made. It exemplifies what Harlan has called “shallow templates” in characterization, plot, and human behavior, and it’s one of the few films that’s not only offended me, but made me (and my wife) genuinely angry. Stay tuned!
-- Jon
>Is it me, or is Ebert's quality of reviewing slipping of late?<
It's not you...Ebert HAS been slipping, and not just of late. He's been over-rating movies for the past 2-3 years now, giving top reviews to efforts like "Kill Bill," "Blackhawk Down," "May," and now Gibson's medieval fantasy.
I'm not saying that any of these films are bad, but a four-star rating from Ebert used to be pretty special, reserved for films that were seriously above the pack, and had a shot at being watched 10 years from now. Being an "event" picture should not be a consideration. I think he gave "Mystic River" fours stars as well...in my opinion, at least a half star too much.
A-T C, re: Hoffman. The guy truly stuck to his convictions and beliefs. When I was in law school in the mid-80's, lo and behold, Abby Hoffman was out in front of the undergrad book store espousing sound thoughts. All garbed in his hippie gear, long hair and beard. Even though he appeared anachronistic, his beliefs were dead on in the middle of Reaganomics and conservative Miami.
Just a quick one...
Jon A. Bell (well, any Jon will do): Correct.
http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/08/04/1059849338248.html?from=storyrhs
I found it rather disturbing to read of Gibson's intentions to proselytize being more the driving force than artistic merit. At least Scorcese tried to take a step back from the mythos of Christ, conjecturing more about the human Jesus that has been replaced by the edification of the "Son Of God" within the perpetuation of staunch (I often think hypnotizing) adherence to dogma that is often laid onto religious followers.
Left me feeling that I'd actually purchased a tract, when normally I take the ones given to me and throw them in the garbage. I guess this one's shame on me.
Even more disturbing is watching Roger Ebert (and subsequently reading him: http://www.suntimes.com/output/ebert1/cst-ftr-passion24.html) promoting the film for Gibson's sermon-like intent. The taliban always liked people to know up front what films they'd like them to see.
An afterthought: Is it me, or is Ebert's quality of reviewing slipping of late? I can't help but feeling that he's being dumbed down by the dulling prescence of that idiot Roeper, a critic created to pander to the 13 year old male crowd demographic, one where no film could ever be bad if the kids like it. Roeper would give a good review to a high-school cafeteria tuna melt.
Wishing Gene Siskel would rise from the grave and smite down my enemies, M
Oscar-Related Question for Harlan.
A few years back-- within the last ten years-- I was watching the Academy Awards, and they were giving the award for Best Short Subject or Best Documentary or something like that. The recipient, a woman, recited the names of people she wanted to thank... and one of the names sure _sounded_ like "Harlan Ellison."
I was only half-interested, so this caught me by surprise. And I wasn't taping the show, so I had no way of verifying what I'd heard. But do you recall ever getting Thanked by a filmmaker who'd won such an award?
Michael Moore
I've been thinking about that moment during the Oscars, when Michael Moore allowed himself to be used as a joke, shouting out a version of his political remarks from last year before being stomped by one of LOTR's Oliphaunts.
I absolutely understand why Moore would go along with this. His brand of political humor has always included a healthy degree of self-deprecation, and even if you believe (as many do) that it is also polluted by self-aggrandizement, the one thing even his most acerbic critics cannot say about his body of work is that he's unwilling to make fun of himself.
So he went along with the gag.
Why not? What's the harm?
I once met the gadfly of another age, Abby Hoffman, and one of the things he spoke about on that occasion was an incident on the Mike Douglas show, where he appeared wearing an American flag shirt and the show's producer, outraged that he would do such a thing, put a CENSORED block over the shirt for the duration of his appearance.
Abby noted that they would have not have done this to a country singer, or to a girl in a star-spangled production number. They did it to him. They did it to sell the impression that he was an anti-american subversive whose use of the flag was somehow suspect.
The incident raised a furor, and Mike Douglas decided to make it a gag. He would do a skit where somebody wore an American flag t-shirt and a CENSORED patch would go crazy trying to follow him all over the stage.
The show invited Abby to sit in the audience, so the cameras could cut to him laughing, and therefore buying into the pretense that he bore no grudge at a harmless misunderstanding.
Abby, to his credit, said no. You want to say that I'm a joke, and you want me to buy into the pretense that I'm a joke. I won't do that. What you did to me was not harmless and I am not going to help you sell the idea that it was harmless.
It took less than a year for widespread revelations about faked WMD evidence to vindicate Moore's much-condemned Oscar rant about fictitious wars.
By allowing himself to be used as the object of a cheap gag where he is stomped by a fantasy elephant at the height of a similar political rant, Moore showed his sense of humor -- but also his poor judgment. For that two seconds also carried the message: ha ha ha, never mind, I was just being a wacky guy...never mind.
Whatever else you think about him and Moore, Hoffman clearly showed more sense. A-TC
Cindy.
"I tell the truth until they hear me."
Wow. I just wrote that one down on my wall at work.
Glad it all went so well.
Mike
I agree with what everyone said about the Oscars, even if that means one agreement contradicts another.
I like Billy Crystal, but, yeah, move on. Your Sammy was good, but I really, really, really didn't need to see him naked. If I wanted to see a slight man with a paunch, I'd look at myself in the mirror.
Adrien Brody probably had the funniest bit all night with the Binaca.
Ben Stiller should stick to roles such as the one he had in ZERO EFFECT. For some reason, women find him attractive. I find that appalling and fascinating at the same time.
Chris, take those blinders off your eyes, man, and take another look at the comedic genius that is Will Ferrell. And this must, must happen: JB and KG need to be at next year's Oscars. I will not argue about this. Maybe Jack doesn't have the experience to actually host the show on his own, but he definitely could be co-host. Watching the clips of the major leaguer Bob Hope clearly indicated that Crystal was in double-A itching for a shot at the majors.
I think recipients of Oscars should be allowed to say anything they want, political or otherwise. I also want to see someone receive an Oscar and say: "I'd like to thank myself 'cause without me this would not have been possible. No one but me contributed to this so I thank no one but myself. Good day to you, sir. I said, good day!"
Or, they could say, "I'd like to thank Satan for making this all possible. Praise Him."
Pepsi Commercials and the Lawyers that Vet Them
Steve Dooner wrote, "Also, I was appalled by a new TV advertisement being run by Pepsi Cola where a child, who apparently had been charged with piracy, proudly declares that she will continue to steal from the internet."
Actually, the exact words are: "[W]e're _still_ going to download music free of off the internet." Then the kids all smile and hold up Pepsi bottles. The music playing underneath them is "I Fought the Law", covered by Green Day, whose lyrics include: "and the law won".
It's a play on words, son - they are "winning" free songs (100 million of 'em) by buying and drinking Pepsi Cola.
Aside from having to drink the nasty sugar swill and the grammatically poor construction of the sentence - the commercial is offering entirely legal and truthful information and it's definitely NOT advocating stealing from the internet.
Informationally yours,
the mite
Julie's Memorial
Excellent, Harlan. I look forward to seeing you.
--JCH
Mr.Smith withdrew the detention.
Paris and I explained what had actually happened. She finished her sentence about not giving the letters to the F word in the "right order". I told him that Paris and I had discussed protocol for the next time someone asks her for the proper spelling of what she refers to as a " cussy word." Paris said, " I'll say, ' look it up in the dictionary. THEN I'll say, and write it on a balloon and give it to Mr. Smith so YOU can see what it feels like to get a detention notice. Mr. Smith was then laughing too hard to be intimidating. On the way back to her class she had an enormous Cheshire cat smile on her face and tears in her eyes, she was walking with a skip in her step.
I said, " So now you know what to do when somebody tries to punish you for something you didn't do? She said, " I tell the truth until they hear me."
Thanks Harlan.
:)
Cindy
Neal,
Your taste is superlative. Kinky Friedman and the Texas Jewboys played in Austin alot when I was growing up. The Kinkster just gets better with age. Do you read his articles in Texas Monthly?
He's the man.
:)
Cindy
GUY:
No, I don't mind. Just make sure I get a couple, three copies, if you will.
JACK:
Yes, I'll be there. Flying in to NYC on 17th, flying out late on the 19th.
Harlan
Jewish Cowboys
Kinky Friedman and the Texas Jewboys are a few of my favorite things...since someone was on the topic.
Somebody needs to go look at what Chuck Palahniuk did in the March Playboy. (Let me apologize in advance.)
I like Will Ferrell...and Rob. Well, I guess it all starts to make sense.
Hi, Unca Harlan.
Peace, my peeps,
Neal
Julius Schwartz Memorial
Harlan, are you making it east to attend Julie's Memorial? Just wondering.
--JCH
Rick,
I'm thinking good thoughts tonight for Homer as he prepares to go under the knife; wishing him a speedy recovery and many more healthy, happy years with his best buddy.
Peace,
Steve J.
Ah -- 'yes' to Will Ferrell and Jack Black hosting the Oscars, but only if Tenacious D does the opening montage complete with movie references set to D's songs. There's definitely something to be done with The Passion of the Christ and "The Greatest Song in the World." I'll leave the year's crop of movies to yield up a film suitable to be melded with "Kyle Took A Bullet For Me."
And yay, Denys Arcand won an Oscar. But he didn't get time to give a speech.
Cheers, Jon
Oscar-Winning Song
Yeah, I don't think Anne Lennox deserved the Oscar. All the other nominees were more worthy of the award, but I hoped that Annette O'Toole and Michael McKean would get it for "A Kiss At The End of The Rainbow" if only to recognize A Mighty Wind.
The Oscars
A unique sweep -- more Oscars than any other films except Ben-Hur and that inexecrable cartoon about the ocean liner. Wonderful. Peter Jackson mentioned fans. Sweet. Justice and glory.
More hams won awards at the Oscars than at a state fair. Penn and Zellwegger flew ROCKETS over the top. Tim Robbins was excellent, but I'd've prefered the living god, Baldwin.
Theron's, on the other hand, was a sublime award. I fear, though, that she lost the more important contest, for most stunning superbabe, to Kidman.
HARLAN -- I plan on running some photos from the 1970 Nebula Awards in my next genzine, if I'm given permission by the owner of the shots -- Quinn Yarbro. One picture is of the Nebula-switching gag you pulled to congratulate LeGuin -- which allowed some nasty souls to snipe at you, without reason. You wrote up the incident in introducing "The Word for World is Forest" in ADV. Would it bug you if I ran it?
>(a Jewish cowboy, if you can imagine such a thing; he was wearing a bolo tie and had a yarmulke on under his cowboy hat!)
Not Bucky Goldstein?!?!
(Steven Wright reference)
Quick addition
Wow! Thanks for the Hitchens review. Gibson apparently lied about removing the blood libel scene from his movie. It's still there, but there is no translation subtitle for the Aramaic! Everyone should seek out James Carroll's review from the Boston Globe, Meacham's for Newsweek and Denby's for the New Yorker. I will take a few days off for posting twice.
Steve Dooner
HARLAN: I thought I would give you heads up on a story in The New York Times day. It seems the Committee on Economic Development has made a statement that "tough" internet piracy laws are "bad for the economy." I thought it was outrageous for the government to make this statement, and I wanted you to be aware that there may be new pressure on courts to find FOR the thieves and the criminals.
Also, I was appalled by a new TV advertisement being run by Pepsi Cola where a child, who apparently had been charged with piracy, proudly declares that she will continue to steal from the internet.
Here is a link to NY Times story:
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/03/01/technology/01rights.html?ex=1079135824&ei=1&en=07179e25e17572d2
This is becoming a culture of theft. I'm an educator and am swamped in a sea of student plagiarism--everyone I know is complaining about it. There are many teachers I know who are inspired by your fight. I will keep doing what I can to help.
In your corner,
Steve Dooner
Again, I briefly de-lurk!
BE WARNED: Longish post and parts will be gushy!
Susan: Thank You! Thank You! Your Care parcel arrived today. I was worried about the lp, but it came through just fine; you know HE's right, you don't need a glue-gun with your natural packing talent (and as the editor, Could I trouble you for your autograph on my next HERC newsletter).
Let's see: I have mousepads, videos, dvds, magazines, photos, mailings, books (many!), comics, and a Computer game, in a Pear Tree! My collection aproaches a level (100+ items) where, speakings as a former librarian, I can reasonably say that this is a representive sample of HE's work (I still need an example of a fanzine work, dammit! Mike Resnick occasionally has a few on E-bay, but my Ghod, the price they go for!) Of course, the ultimate HE collectable, is HE himself! Susan, what's the going price for a couple of fingernail clippings or locks of hair suitable for voodoo and/or cloning rituals (Heh, heh, yes Harlan, you Will never die, HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!)
Harlan: You are too kind, sir! I really didn't expect you to sign the comics! Your care in tearing out just a little part of the plastic to sign the 'Jeffty' lp was much appreciated, however now I'm not sure I can now bear to open and play it! Is it the same one on tape at the HERC store?
One other teensy question: You had already signed the lp before the shrink wrap went on (#15/500) but when you signed it to me it was clearly noticible you have changed your signature: When/Why did you do this? I mean, the current ‘H’, with it’s bold slashes is certainly appealing, however, I (for one), certainly prefer your more classical and craftsmanlike swooshes (and, yes, I do have far too much time bloody time on my hands, but these questions will be vitaly important to those writing literary monographs on your work in the future!) :).
To Evil Yog Soggoth Thingy: Beware grasshopper! I humbly suggest you review CD 'On the Road With Harlan' for opinion of late lamented Carl Sagan and recipe for Dead Gopher Stew! Be afraid! Be Very Afraid!
To the movie nuts: I humblely suggest that 'Casablanca' is the epitomy of all film excellence, but I will accept that 'Woman of the Dunes', 'Citizen Kane', 'Alphaville', and '8 1/2' come close.
To Frank Church: Your obsession with Chomsky not only indicates a extremely perceptive nature but also a very mature and knowledgeble mind (now if that doesn't get Rob going (I honestly miss him), nothing will)!
peace,
Jono
I can't take the Oscars very seriously. It's nice when a film I like gets an award, but I try to avoid seeing these as a referendum on anything. It's neat to watch the techies get their awards (hey, I do care who wins sound design and visual effects), and it's fun when the ceremony goes kerflooey.
Re Billy Crystal. I enjoyed him when he was on _Saturday Night Live_, and I remember his doing an astonishing monologue on the life of Mohammad Ali while switching between the voices of Ali and Howard Cosell. But the _Village Voice_ nailed Crystal's problem when they reviewed _Mr. Saturday Night_; they said Crystal wouldn't be truly happy until he went bald, his nose began to droop, and hair sprouted out of his ears just like all the aging Borscht-belt comics he was paying tribute to. At root, he's a comic who wants to be universally entertaining. Not a bad goal, but it does bland people out.
There are many great mysteries in the world but none greater to me than the fact that people cannot see how unbearably awful and infuriating and irritating and witless Will Ferrell is. This man should be liquidated and sold for parts just to prevent him from ever appearing in front of a camera again. WHat the hell is wrong with everyone???? Can't you see??????
OK, that's out of the way.
Mark said he was sick of politics at the Oscars - well, they sure as hell took care of that this year, didn't they? Yeesh, what a nauseating suck-up this year's Oscars was. "We're all good, decent, middle-of-the-road Americans. See, we all brought mom with us. And we even have Michael Moore getting stomped by an elephant just to apologize for letting him dare speak his mind last year!"
I'm sick of politics NOT being at the Oscars. The implication being that film and politics have no business mixing. What a depressing notion. Of course, film should be concerned with politics and filmmakers likewise.
Not that I expected otherwise but what a shame that Keisha Castle-Hughes didn't win. Maybe if she puts on 50 points and ages 60 years and gets a sex change operation for her next role, the voters will ooh and ah and give it to her.
Penn was good but Murray was brilliant and it was a crime to see him robbed. If there's one rule at the Oscars, the loudest, most over-the-top performance is going to win almost every time. Scenery-chewing gets the vote almost every time.
LOTR was great and deserving for most awards but the score stinks. Sorry to say it. It's unimaginative, bombastic and utterly boring. So were most of the other scores nominated - are they even different scores anymore? The Hans Zimmer/Howard Shore/James Hoerner school of "We really like John Williams" scoring all blends together for me. FInding Nemo was the only _original_ score out of the group.
And of course Triplets should have won for best song but that wasn't gonna happen. I love Annie Lennox but that song is a relatively weak effort for her.
Well I didn't watch the Oscars, but I have to agree with Mark and Li'l Washu: I don't care for Billy Crystal OR Ben Stiller. Though I think I'd apply "smarmy" to Billy first of all. I'm not sure why Stiller is always cast in comedic roles, he looks like the sociopaths whose pictures adorn the post office walls. Something about those eyes, he looks as if he's listening to The Voices In His Head. Maybe he'd be better as a mad slasher type.
Well,as expected, ROTK sweeped the Academy off it's feet. I wasn't able to catch the broadcast, but frankly after last year's little fiasco (these jerks had the AUDACITY to boo Michael Moore off-stage? What were they expecting the minute he got up in there in the first place?), I wouldn't have had the stomach or the will to tune in anyway. And why the heck wasn't ROTK given at least a little more competition? Even letting THE HULK get nominated in Visual Effects category would have been some welcome variety to the proceedings.
MARK,
I'm afraid I don't 'get' Ben Stiller either. There's something intangible, something smarmy about his brand of humour that repels me like sour milk. Some of the best comedians make the effort they put into their work invisible to the naked eye. With Stiller, it's as if he's repeatedly smashing his face against the camera just to squeeze a single smirk from the audience. His forced theatrics remind me of a TINY TOON ADVENTURES cartoon, with all of it's obnoxious mugging and wannabe wiseassery intact.
FRANK,
"...the scene where the little Bruce Campbells' attack the big Bruce is the funniest thing I have ever seen."
No kidding. Why can't Tom Cruise ever be assaulted by midget versions of himself?
London Bridge is falling down, falling down, falling down...
Rick: Oh poor Homer! I hope all goes well with his operation. I have loved seeing his picture here. He looks like a giant version of my dogs ( pugs ). They are all in the same family believe it or not. Mine are Mini mastiffs! Does Homer have hip dysplasia? How old is he? In any case, I'll be thinking about you both.
Oscars
Billy Crystal should be put out to pasture; tired jokes, lame mugging for camera time, trite comebacks. As Keith Richards once said about George Michael, "Shave and go home." Well, I have no problem with Crystal's personal grooming, but he should go home. I second Jack Black as next year's host.
Can someone explain Ben Stiller to me? I just don't get him.
Happy that Robbins, Penn and Jackson et al won. Very glad that Eastwood did not. I admire much about _Mystic River_, but it was not the Herculean effort that Jackson gave us.
After they retire Billy Crystal, they should bestow the same honors on the ubiquitous Mr. Sting.
Rich I'm with you - the song from the _Triplets of Belleville_ should have won.
Loved Blake Edwards' wheelchair entrance and have always loved his brand of slapstick.
Eric: how can you tell the difference between Murray's hangdog expression and his other facial expressions?
And finally I am sick, sick, SICK of even the slightest hint of politics during acceptance speeches, left or right. Basta!
John Bell: Great post, man. One of the best I've read here in a while (With the exception of Harlan's, of course). Substitute Roman Catholic for Southern Baptist and you've nearly described my spiritual trajectory.
Frank: Hitchens wrote brilliantly on the latest offering from the Marquis de Gibson, but check out Denby's review if you haven't; it's pretty insightful. Also, take a look at James Caroll's essay on the Common Dreams website, a reprint of his Boston Globe op-ed piece. All three expose Gibson for the masochist he is.
Mark W.
Here's a different take...
I have not seen the movie yet, so I don't feel qualified to comment on it. However, here's a review from a renowned SF author (Orson Scott Card) who also happens to share my faith. I won't see it simply because he recommends it; I haven't even decided if I'm going to see it at all. But I believe that his review, and the points he raises about the story and its spiritual aspects, are well worth considering.
http://www.ornery.org/essays/warwatch/2004-02-29-1.html
I think Chris Hitchens has the best review of the Mel Gibson film so far.
Warning, he calls it 'fascist'.
http://slate.msn.com/id/2096323
Lots of critics just hate this movie.
----------------
I saw Army Of Darkness, and I hafta say, the scene where the little Bruce Campbells' attack the big Bruce is the funniest thing I have ever seen. Side splitting.
----------------
The Oscar's became the walk of boredom. Snooze.
Well, at least that nasty Hobbit said goodbye for good.
David, I watched the Oscars, an annual tradition...made jalapeno poppers and swedish meatballs.
I thought the fashions were a little less-stellar this year, and what's with these fat knots on all the guys' ties? Peter Jackson couldn't even be bothered to get his neck-button fastened; come on dude, it's the Oscars. No-one will think less of your cred if you get fitted properly. Brosnan was about the only well-tailored man there, along with Sean Penn.
Charlize Theron had some kind of skin paint applied which looked awful. Nicole Kidman has serious eating issues. I thought Naomi Watts, Sofia Coppolla, and the woman who played Electra all looked lovely. Susan Sarandon still gets my heart singing. The best dress may have been Angelina Jolie's--yowsa.
The stage patter was the usual hit-or-miss. Crystal's intro went on too long this time...too much singing. Jim Carrey is obviously starting to lose it. The pace was good, and I liked the way they did the songs in bunches. Odd to start the death clips with a tribute to Gregory Peck, as if his death was the hardest to bear, or the most important.
Nice tribute to Blake Edwards, a director easily written-off as too light. Too many awards for Lord of the Rings--did Howard Shore really need to win again for essentially the same score? Other films could have used the little boost that even a technical Oscar will provide.
Bill Murray needs to learn a little humility--his hang-dog expression after losing was a little icky. Crystal's making light of it just worsened matters. I liked all the nominees on the stage at the end--nice touch.
Beforehand, on the red carpet, Joan Rivers was far superior to the terrible ABC interviewers, who seemed to go out of their way to make tasteless jokes and act like fawning groupies. And do any of the Hobbits ever date? Geez, it's one of the biggest nights of your life, can't you find someone to share it with? Or are they all gay? I'm personally getting tired of attendees showing up with their Mom, their kid, or as a third wheel to another couple.
Those are scattershot impressions; anyone else?
movies
Wow, I came in here expecting to see a lot more buzz about last night's Academy Awards. Maybe you're all tired. And this is not to say I watched it either (I was rereading _The Tin Woodman of Oz_, still by far one of my favorites for its odd combination of grown-up pathos and even slight creepiness), but I noticed the color photo of Tim Robbins hefting his statuette on the cover of this morning's NYT.
I'm glad he won it. A role like his in "Mystic River" is a lot harder to bring off than many of the more flashy parts that people often win for. And I hope his win does not carry the slightest political whiff of Hollywood thumbing its nose at Bush and Middle America for their discomfort with Robbins offscreen -- much as I know politics is impossible to divorce from the Hollywood award process.
The Portland Int'l Film Festival is over. Along with films I mentioned in the past week, I caught "Wilbur Wants to Kill Himself," a Danish-made product in English, set in Glasgow (same guy who did the delightful "Italian for Beginners" a couple years back) -- very fine, thoughtful and amusing movie, set for limited general release in late March, I think. Thumbs up on that one. "Ford Transit" is a Palestinian quasi-documentary about a guy who drives a taxi in the Jerusalem area; fairly undramatic slice-of-life stuff that's worthwhile if you're not looking for a lot of drama or insight. Finally, I saw "Stalingrad," a solid German documentary (obviously a three-part TV miniseries) that uses a lot of excellent archival footage as well as testimony of survivors to tell a riveting, brutal war story.
Jon Bell:
Considering the astounding ignorance of so many people about their own religions, never mind everyone else's, just noting that Gibson is not a born-again qualifies as a stunning insight!
Random Religious Thoughts
A couple of odds 'n ends:
M: You said, "One wonders if Gibson, a born again Christian, may have allowed his judgment to be blurred by his beliefs, attempting to use the bully pulpit of mass culture to turn allegory into reality."
Um, I don't think so. Mel Gibson is an extremely staunch Catholic whose particular branch of Catholicism rejects the reforms of Vatican II. It may be considered "fundamentalist" or "extremist," but not "born-again," which is the province of Protestants (of which Southern Baptists are the largest part in the U.S.) Catholics aren't "born again," and Protestants regard the conspicuous display of a cross WITH Jesus on it as something dark, creepy and vaguely idolatrous. (A cross by itself is simply seen as a symbol.)
How do I know all this? Because I was born and raised in Southern Missouri (what I call "the buckle on the Bible Belt,"), and I dutifully trudged off to church on Sundays with my parents (devout Christians but not extreme fundamentalists; for example, Pentacostals -- called "holy rollers" -- were looked upon as somewhat scary by most Baptists. Which is another aside: people can be extremely "religious" in that community, but if you have an overwhelming "spiritual" experience, and actually fall down in ecstatic transcendent awe, it's regarded at best as a loss of decorum; at worst, as frighteningly close to something resembling possession.) Anyway, I had doubts about my faith ever since I was a little kid -- there were too many contradictions and just-plain "hey, this makes no sense to me!" kind of moments, to me. So, I just had to learn how to keep my mouth shut, and, when listening to a sermon, go off for inner journeys thinking about comics, SF books, the Enterprise, the Seaview, the Batmobile, special effects -- basically, stuff that was more interesting to me. Finally, when I was 18 (1979), I simply told my parents that I wasn't going to attend church any more, and after a brief period of harassment, they accepted it and left me alone. From there, I went through periods of militant atheism until arriving at my current low level of vaguely pagan/Buddhist, non-specific spirituality -- with "faith" as a concept itself no longer tied in to odious conventional religions, and belief in the transcendent -- even if it's simply a part of myself (the unconscious mind) -- as a sometimes-useful focusing/coping tool.
Anyway, jump forward to this past Saturday morning: my wife Joan and I were driving through Sedona after a snowstorm, just to see the red rocks sprinkled in white, and I decided to detour to show my wife the newly-completed (and architecturally interesting) Jewish synagogue off the main highway. (My wife is Jewish, non-practicing, but respectful of her heritage.) She'd seen the back of the temple, but the "front" of it actually faces away from the road, towards the mountains. So, we get out, walk around it, walk up to the front door, and were pulled in by a charming bearded man (a Jewish cowboy, if you can imagine such a thing; he was wearing a bolo tie and had a yarmulke on under his cowboy hat!) nicknamed "Grandpa," who, politely but firmly, suggested that we attend the brief service they were about to have (the Jewish community in Sedona is pretty small.)
So, we attended the service -- the first time my wife had been to temple in probably 30 years -- and I, a corn-fed Midwestern boy from Missouri, former Southern Baptist, wore a kippa for the first time, which amused my wife no end (I wasn't quite sure of the etiquette, but I did it out of respect.) As Joan put it, the sight of this would've made her mom kvell, and my mom plotz.
Why did we do it? Well, as Harlan is fond of saying, because it seemed like a good idea at the time (or at least, a not-objectionable, interesting idea.) If you consider all your life experiences as anthropological examinations of the human condition, then the oddest, most non-traditional activities to which you're ordinarily accustomed become tolerable, enlightening or even fun.
As for me, I still have no great love for the 3 desert monotheistic religions, but I do have to say: if I'm going to get dragged into any kind of religious ceremony, I'd rather attend a Jewish function (especially a Jewish wedding, which is short, fun, and filled with life) than most others, which strike me as dour and cheerless affairs.
Not a lot of insight here, but I thought I'd share.
-- Jon
P.S. I have no interest in seeing "Passion of the Christ" -- but I'm dying to see "Spider-Man 2!" :-)
Am I the only motherfucker out here who thinks that they gave the Oscar for Best Song to the wrong folks? No disrespect to Annie Lennox, but TRIPLETS OF BELLEVILLE had the clear winner.
Oh, and Jack Black and Will Ferrell should be hosting next years Oscars telecast.
Schools
How typical of the gummint. When a school clearly has problems, their response is, to paraphrase that great philosopher Gallagher, to take away more of what they already know those schools ain't got enough of. Another example of getting political mileage out of fixing the blame rather than fixing the problem.
The past several years I've picked up a little extra money working part-time for a company that grades those standardized tests. Although we never knew who the students were or where their schools were more specifically than in which state, it was obvious when the kids had truly been taught the subjects we were grading as part of their curriculum, and when the teacher was teaching to the test. Or hadn't even tried. In order to have a grasp of the material, some underlying concepts had to have been previously covered. If the concepts were evident in the essays, it appeared that those kids had been given a good foundation. Where the answers were obvious regurgitations of rote memorization of the answers, teaching to the test seemed to be a probability. Kind of hard to explain in the limited space here, but you get a feel for that sort of thing after a while.
What always frustrated me was to get a paper from an apparently bright student who wrestled with the question and came up with an ingenious answer that was, nonetheless, the wrong one, because he or she had no foundation to understand the question.
I'm not an educator, nor do I play one on TV, but as a contributor to an online magazine I used to edit once said, "Standardized tests will only make sense when we have standardized kids".
Cindy: You didn't need ME to tell you to be sweet; it comes naturally to you. Just be yourself and you'll be fine. Let us know if you are able to get Paris off the hook.
Scott Challman: Your depiction of test preparation and the derailment of meaningful teaching to up the scores is accurate in NY also. An unbelievable amount of pressure is on the teaching staff to raise scores. Kids learn to write very specific types of essays, whose larger value is questionable to me. Most teachers I know loathe these tests and vocally oppose them, with little effect. As always, these decisions come from far above us.
A major problem I've noticed is that minority students tend to underperform on these tests. Rather than realize that the tests might be racist, it's thrown back on the teachers to modify their teaching methods, offer free after school instruction, etc., to raise their scores. Makes everyone feel bad about themselves for a questionable goal.
DTS: As for zero tolerance, I think enforcement levels vary. The school where I work is not prison-like or fascistic. Most kids seem pretty happy; their major complaints are that they can't wear hats in school. Anyone can go to the restroom when he needs to, and very few security measures could be categorized as draconian. I wouldn't be so fast to paint the entire American public school system with the "Nazi" brush. I'm not saying your kids' school isn't bad, I'm just saying that zero tolerance is not the biggest problem facing my school.
PAB
Getting the Waste Products Oughtta Here
Harlan: "Turtles do not unclench till the thunder rolls."
BEAUTIFUL! Utterly, unequivocally, judiciously, expediently, befittingly, and melllllll-IF-luously BEAUTIFUL!
Harlan (AND Rick) saved me the trouble of having to pounce on this clueless Butch Dosher Fred-type goon. (I dismissed his stupid ramblings completely until he groundlessly javelined Sagan)
It is sad - REALLY sad - that for every great, benevolent human being like Sagan there are two or three "Freds", this inbred Morlock-like subspecies roaming the earth in a useless existence...making such tasks as Carl’s to inform, enlighten, and inspire arduous as hell.
...then you wonder why they call me cynical.
Well...either we’ll ultimately make it as a species because of rationality and spirit like Sagan’s or we’ll go down because of too many dumb-shit Freds running the show. It’s a drama that will have to play itself out.
Harlan,
Your words are golden. I would have never thought of having Paris present for the line in the sand I'm going to draw for Mr.Smith. Everything you said hit home and that's exactly what I'm going to do.
The advice was BRILLIANT but but I really can't rank it above another stellar bit of advice you gave me, I've quoted you to others contemplating the same surgery. You said, " A tit job? What for? What kind of man do you want to attract?"
I can't remember if you actually said "tit job" but it was something along those lines. It was splendid advice and I listened. You were right. In 1998 I met a woman who had received one of those saline jobs that I was eyeing at the time. She had cancer and she ran a chronic fatigue hotline. She told me that she had a notebook filled with the names of women who had at one time had implants. She said they were dying or dead or so sick that they could barely function. Every time someone MENTIONS implants-- I thank God for your words.
THAT one maybe saved my life.
I owe ya another one, buddy o' mine,
:)
Cindy
Alex Jay Berman,
THANK YOU.
:)
Neal,
How sweet you are! Utterly sweet!
THANK YOU!
:)
Cindy
Doc,
I loved what you said about teaching students HOW to think and not WHAT to think.
As for homeschooling, I admire those who have the nexus strength to tackle a mountain like that. For me no WAY no HOW no CHANCE IN HELL! I'd rather spend a week at a Dick Gephard/ Tom Daschle speech marathon. I'd sooner play nude TWISTER with Jerry Falwell or... well you get the picture. Besides, my children are far too social to keep at home. I refused to send them to Kindergarten until they were six years old. By THAT time they were all too happy to go to school--(aka get rid of me) no tears or clinging with any of mine.
I followed the bus to school after Paris left for her first day of Kindergarten last year. She ran after her brothers and jumped onboard without a backward glance. I wanted to make certain she was okay (which is Cindy speak for " I couldn't bear the separation" so I followed her to school. She was in her classroom. I could see her through the window, playing with a little boy who was looking at her like she was the loveliest, most fascinating creature he'd ever beheld. I slunk away with a grapefruit in my throat. She was the last of my Mohicans and she was out of the nest and into the system. .
This after 20 years of having a little one at home with me. Now I'm spoiled. Homeschool would interfere with my selfish enjoyment of this newfound solitude.
Of course if faced with what Chuck dealt with I would move Heaven and Hell to homeschool my child for the year rather than send him or her to a monster on a daily basis.
:)
Cindy
Thanks Michael.
:)
Chuck,
I'll tell her.
:)
Was your teacher's name Barbara Bush? Your description was almost uncanny in the physical similarities of your fourth grade teacher and Mrs.Bush Sr.
I LOVE your line, " the parents came in on him like the torch-bearing villagers in the Frankenstein movies."
Having carried a torch or two I can identify. There was a principal here 15 years ago who told my children that I obviously didn't care if they made it to school on time or not.
I got to the school the next morning just before the bell rang when the halls were crawling with students and teachers. I found my target near the front doors. I crooked my finger. Mr.Wilson came closer. I said, " I understand you told my children that you didn't think I cared if they made it to school on time or not." He said, " Well they've been late every day for the past 4 days. I said "Come'ere" and I stepped back about four steps and pointed out the window. I said, " Do you see that beat up, old clampettmobile out there? That's my car. It doesn't care much for cold and when it's freezing outside it won't crank. I have to wait for the garage next door to open so William Beaty can jump start it because I don't drive a slick new Jaguar like you do."
He said "Oh".
Then I said, " Fuuurthermore-- I can't BELIEVE that you-- a PRINCIPAL would disparage a parent to her children. Isn't that the FIRST thing they teach you in school when you're studying to be a teacher? He was just staring, so I said," Where did you go to school?" He said " Arkansas".
I laughed.
Then I explained to him that a single mother with four kids who has just moved to the town is in a precarious spot already and that a man in his position could have a profound effect either negative or positive in the lives of those children. I asked him if I could count on him to call ME to speak to ME if he had any more such observations. He said , " Yes, Ma'am, and I never had any trouble with him again.
Now, Mr.Smith could be a tougher nut to crack. He's all about power. He's going to think I'll roll on this, but I won't. Paris WILL NOT go to detention for this.
Cindy
Paula!
Your words were greatly needed. I'm glad you pointed that out because I might have gone in with my hackles up if you hadn't.
First I'll try tact.
Thanks for being such a good friend,
Cindy
All of y'all, thanks!
Movie quotes, theOscars
Appreciate the affirmation, Doc. Can't place your riposte, but here's one that's stuck with me for twenty years or so...
"Was will er von mich? Ich bin nur ein Schauspieler."
The songs were all good, but I thought the least of them won. It was worth sitting through all the acceptance speeches to hear Alison Kraus twice. She's one of the few folks around these days I would cheerfully pay exhorbitant prices to see perform live. She opened for a Garth Brooks concert I was dragged to a few years back, and was, for me, the highlight of the evening.
No major surprises, no major disappointments.
Well, I just watched The Coronation of the King--or, as we ever-so-quaintly used to call it, "the Oscars telecast," I'm more than a little surprised. There didn't seem to be any huge miscarriages of reason this year--and perhaps MOST surprising, I actually found that I liked all five of the nominated songs. That NEVER happens!
I have to wonder, though ... is it possible for a small picture, a human melodrama, to win Best Picture (Beautiful Mind notwithstanding)? Is it NECESSARY these days for the winner to be all show and spectacle?
Of course, I shouldn't talk--I rarely ever see any movies these days, and over and above that, I have a special gleam in my eye and a special warmth in my heart for BAD movies. Oh; not EVIL movies (which seem to be a large percentage of the few movies I've seen in the last few years, dragged to them as I was by dates (A.I., HANNIBAL, AMERICAN BEAUTY), but good fun BAD movies. You know, stuff you watch and love even though they're really not what you'd call especially good, and are sometimes what you might call "horrible". Movies such as John Cusack and Tom Hanks used to appear in, before they became serious actors. Some of the less-misogynistic Blake Edwards comedies. CASINO ROYALE. CADDYSHACK. PCU. THE BLUES BROTHERS. ANIMAL HOUSE. REAL GENIUS. BUCKAROO BANZAI. That sort of thing. Or, on the other hand, the ruly BAD yet truly enjoyable films you may catch one late night on cable tv and never see again, such as the EVIL DEAD movies, GLITCH!, NINJA ACADEMY, SILENCE OF THE HAMS, THE NAKED TRUTH, any softcore pornies with performances by Tony Curtis, Oliver Reed, or with any of a host of fine actors who obviously took the embarassing gig to pay bar bills ...
Today, I went to the theater to catch one of the former sort of movies, rather than the latter--very fun, very engrossing, and at the same time, quite not-great. The effects were crap, but the film was great: BUBBA HO-TEP. I mean, how can you go wrong with an aging Elvis portrayed by Bruce Campbell, JFK portrayed by Ossie Davis (LBJ had him put through plastic surgery after that thing in Dallas, you see), both in a flick based on a Joe R. Lansdale short story?
The only thing--aside from the aforementioned effects--which sucked about the flick was that the theater, a nice little gem funded by and named for Hal Prince which runs good shows, cabarets, and repertory theater, was packed full-to-the-brim with lovely lissome lasses ... and every one of them hanging on someone's arm. Feh. It gets tiresome, being a beggar outside the banquet hall.
But such is life.
I'm gone for a couple days, so I'll do this now.
Mite & Todd:
Well, it seemed to me that the hassles the webmaster was having with phantom posters might be what was turning folks off to me, so I asked. I could understand suspicion and reticence toward a stranger from those who have been around here for a while, having to sort through dross to be able to talk to friends. I'd likely do it myself.
Take this however you feel it's being intended: Thanks.
M
Early reading
Well, here's my story of early reading and schools.
I taught myself to read at age 3, probably because I couldn't get my parents to read to me as often as I thought they should (i.e. 24/7, at least when I was awake). My parents learned of this when I started reading a newspaper to them. They confirmed that neither one of 'em had read that to me, and then tested me on other things to confirm that I was actually reading. Nothing more was thought of it by them at the time, save possibly a sense of relief that I wouldn't be pestering them to read to me.
But a few weeks later, my mother got a call from my nursery school that went something like this:
NS: Hello, this is Tommy's nursery school.
Mom: Is he all right? Is there a problem?
NS: Did you know your son can read already?
Mom: Yes, he's been doing it for a few weeks now. Why?
NS: We pinned progress reports to all the children's shirts so they would take them home, and he read all of them!
[picture of me sounding out "disruptive behavior"] From what I'm told, envelopes suddenly became a big deal in that school.
The early reading did come in handy, in that I got to skip kindergarten. And my first grade teacher was in general very willing to let me read what I wanted, since I was already past the Dick & Jane stuff. The school did keep track of what and how many books first graders read, and I smashed through the old record by halfway through the year. I set a new record of just over 300 books read, and recall being very ticked off that they would let me count Dick & Jane level books but wouldn't let me count comic books, which had much bigger and harder words. I've a clear memory that if I'd been allowed to count comics, I would've broken the 500 mark.
One reason I recall the numbers is that I looked them up on my old report card last year to encourage my younger niece to read. For both her and her older sister, when they started really being able to read, I sent them a $20-25 gift card from Borders every month for a year. With instructions that it was to be spent only on books. Figured I should try to indoctrinate them into being readers as much as I can.
Herc
M,
Your second question for Herc was answered by Jon Stover on Monday, February 23 2004 22:6:7: "As to HERC membership, it's pretty simple -- the explanation is part of this website, at harlanellison.com/resources.htm"
The answer to your third question is "No". You may buy multiple year subscriptions but there is no discount.
And finally, if no answer is forthcoming from the assembled throng, you may assume (ass, u, me, got it) that either the question was missed or no one knows the answer to it... Begging for an answer and acting pissy about "being ignored" is not the best path to either endearment or enlightenment.
informationally yours,
the mite
M,
The info for joining HERC is on this website. Click on this link and you'll find the address. Send missives to the address and Susan Ellison herself will rip open your envelope while attempting to avoid agonizing paper cuts.
http://harlanellison.com/herc.htm#record
-TODD
Dave,
Hey, I may be new here but I know better than to try to recapture the magic of a Harlan Ellison performance...! It consisted of Harlan telling of how he met Bruce and proceeding to attempt a flying dropkick on a friend (HE, that is...). As for the details, I'll leave those to Mr. Ellison...
SCHOOLS:
I agree that the "zero tolerance" rule has gone waaaay too far. Using Columbine as an excuse to enforce it only serves to cheapen the lessons that should have been learned from that tragedy. (Like treating kids like humans instead of cattle, working to improve the societal problems of too many guns, too little education & compassion, improving a media intent on instilling fear in the populace...those sorta things...).
But here's another recent development (if everyone hasn't noticed it yet..): the system is now being skewed towards teaching for test results as opposed to actual learning. To be specific (as I know that's hardly a new development), to reach Bush's No Child Left Behind standards. The term "accountability" is politicospeak for "funding." Your school's scores drop, they get less money. Same old story, just being enforced more stringently (and publicly) now. Midway through each semester, I hear how lesson plans are suddenly dropped in order to prep the herd...I mean, children...for the next round of State Testing. At least that's the case in backwoods Delaware. How about elsewhere...?
Scott Challman
Dear Rick and Harlan: it's "flout," not "flaut." This is simply payback for my having to go look up "kobold" yesterday...
Rick: Considering that a lot of the phantom posters seem to come from Philly, I'd be glad to be of any local assistance you may need.
Just A Simple Question...
I've tried to get some info on HERC on three separate occasions, to no avail. Out of curiosity, is my moniker getting me lumped in with the Kathys and Bruces, and consequently ignored?
And the question I asked remains out there. I can take "no" for an answer.
No Yog-Sloggoth, me, but women have often mistaken me for Nyarlethotep.
Really, it's M.
DEAR RICK: Ah loves ya, bebby, but it's "flaut," not "flaunt," in the case you used it.
Mit showers of kisses on yer sweet phizz, ah remains, as allus,
Yr. pal, Harlan
A NOTICE TO KATHY/FRED AND BUTCH/BRUCE
To the people in the same place in Philadelphia posting under the names -
david jay, geoffrey, Eugene Sidney, Kathy Boone, the SCI-FI kid, kathy, yog-sogoth, yoggie-s, and possibly (although not certainly) Fred
And to the people in the same place in Somerville, Massachusets posting under the names -
Butch Doser, Wayne Willie Ostermann, Guy Favalon, Lefty Sonnenblick, Darryl Dombek, Steve "slobo" Slobodkin, Flavian Deboissiere, Lincoln Manacher, and possibly (but again not certainly) Bruce Bettigole
Hi. I'm Rick Wyatt, and I run this site. I am not Harlan Ellison. I did not do whatever things you think Harlan may have done or say whatever things you think Harlan may have said that make you want to break the rules here and make trouble for me. I am just a relatively nice guy who is trying to run a web page for a friend and support an online community.
Unfortunately, the web page suffers because what little time I have these days is usually taken up dealing with people who for whatever reason think it's funny to sow chaos and dissent here. This sort of thing rarely reaches or bothers Harlan. So, I ask you, why are you doing this to ME? What horrible thing have I done that merits your deliberately flaunting the posted rules and making me have to lose my precious free time, and on a weekend no less, dealing with the fallout? Does it give you pleasure to know you're fucking over some random guy hundreds of miles away that you don't even know?
Regardless, I don't care if it's fifteen of you in the same house or dorm or loony bin doing this shit. I'm killing access to posting to the lot of you. You are being served notice that I consider this to be harassment. If you have been lumped in by some coincidence with a bad crowd, or otherwise feel an injustice has been done, let me know - IN E-MAIL, NOT HERE - and I'll take steps to make amends.
But if you take steps to circumvent this ban, or otherwise make more trouble for me, I'll whack access to this entire site for both your ISPs and file reports with their abuse departments. I won't "out" you here but suffice it to say that you both use fairly major providers who are known to actually respond to these reports. In the case of Kathy/Fred/etc, a report will also go out to the city government department which owns the IPs under which you are posting. I'm sure they'll be pleased.
In the event this does not prove efficacious, I will also send what information I have (and I have a lot of it) to Harlan so he can take whatever action he feels is necessary. I can tell you from past incidents that when Harlan does something you will not feel happy or "special" in any way to have received the attention.
HOWEVER - I am not interested in payback or anything other than protecting this site and community. If you wish to continue posting here, or you are a victim (as Kathy claims) of someone else in your household being a brat, I'll make it easy for you. You can send me a private message with your e-mail address and I'll give you a method to post. This needs to be the e-mail address for your internet provider, not a yahoo.com or hotmail.com address. I can be reached at webmaster@harlanellison.com.
I'm going off now to play some frisbee and spend some time outside with my dog Homer. He's going in on tuesday to have a second six thousand dollar operation on his back legs and be housebound for several weeks. If you're planning something nefarious in response to this, I'd appreciate it if you could put on hold whatever Dr. Phibes-like plan you have against Harlan until at least Wednesday. Thanks!
P.S. Oh and Doc - for CHRISTS SAKE stop hitting the ENTER key at the end of each line you're typing. Only hit ENTER when you're at the end of a paragraph. Your posts look like they came from a VIC-20.
The atmosphere at today's public schools
BERMAN: You're right: the comparison to a Nazis concentration camp WAS overkill. But I CAN say, with very little hyperbole, that today's public schools have become strangely similar to penal colonies. In addition to the "zero tolerance" rules, the idiotic rules that some administrators come up with to combat what they see as a problem (too many kids abusing restroom privileges -- thus, in our KC area district, kids were "punished" if they had the urge to go during class time), and worst of all, terms like "lockdown" (which, I know, is used for security purposes, but I it just advances the analogy -- especially when they use it because of suspected drugs in school, rather than violence). And, I don't know about the rest of the country, but some laws passed around here give the school (according to their guidebook) "the right" to take a child aside and question him or her in a closed room -- with a policeman present, but WITHOUT a parent present -- if they think that child might have knowledge of some criminal activities. The school authoritie I talked to tried to justify it by saying that if he had heard rumors that a kid had brought a gun to school, and he thought my daughter or someone else had knowledge, he should have the authority to talk to the child alone. This guy didn't see the potential for abuse in this setup; and didn't understand the basic right he was denying a young teenager.
Maybe I'm wrong; maybe my persepective is too screwed up from being a loving parent. If so, anyone who wants to weigh in do so. But I think children should have the a lot of the same basic rights as adults. And that includes protection from gestapo-style interrogation (and no, that's not hyperbole, Berman).
--DTS
Scott Challman writes: "I still think of your tale of meeting Bruce Lee whenever his name comes up! (You've got to see it to appreciate it, folks..."
------------------------
Bruce Lee was one of my childhood heroes. I had not previously heard of the story of Harlan and Bruce Lee. Fill me in!
ADAM: You don't have to worry about any bluehaired evangelicals seeing The Gospel of Mel (well, unless they die in the theater); religious fervor forgives much.
Hell, in the Philippines come Easter, a good many people ACTUALLY crucify and flagellate themselves (the crucifixtion with nails through palms and feet [while standing on a block of wood]; the flagellation with bunles of bamboo lashed together).
Has anyone on this board seen this newest version of The Walrus and the Carpenter? If so, whad'ja think? Not that I'm looking for recommendation; I likely won't see the flick, as it's not my cup of salt.
CINDY: Yes, you should see the principal, if only to gauge what sort of crap he may try to visit upon your little one in future--and to forestall it by your presence. Remember: YOU pay his salary, after all.
It's funny; all through school, I had excellent teachers, with only a couple exceptions--but uniformly, the administrators were all sculpted from the same lump of copralite.
HARLAN: If you can think of any ways we can help you track down this newest spawn of Jon Douglas West, give a holler.
Oh; and have you rescheduled for the eyejob?
Several things:
Harlan: Thank you for defending Carl Sagan. I have been a huge fan of his since I first saw COSMOS on PBS as a kid (recently rented the DVD set and watched it again, and was as enraptured as I was the first time). He's up there with Mr. Rogers as Treasured Icon from My Childhood Geekdom.
DTS said, "Ever since Columbine, our public school system has become more like a Nazis concentration camp and less like a place of learning." Hyperbolic much? I hardly think this is true. I think there have always been people in education who care more about propriety and their own power than they do about kids. This is not exclusive to education, but the Peter Principal (typo intended) is in full effect in schools. Let's not blame Columbine for the priggishness that caused many of us to suffer in school.
Cindy: By ALL means, go to the school and protest how Paris was treated. In every school I've worked at, it very much made a difference in how a kid was treated if the parents were known to be involved and vocal. If you go in there wielding the pleasant, sweet personality we all love, but firmly in favor of your kid, I bet you'll get some results.
Also, definitely do what Harlan suggests and let Paris know you are sticking up for her. When I got in major trouble in high school (for having a "negative attitude," shocking, I know), my mom totally stuck up for me and even though she and I had our differences, I will always treasure the memory of her making my math teacher cry.
CINDY
Hey lady. If no one else has offered, I will be glad to ship you a copy the Locus mag with Julie's obit, if I can find it. I should have no problem.
I'll let you know as soon as I get my clammies one one.
Warm Regards,
Neal
BUTCH,
See, this is what happens when you don't post under a sophomoric pseudonym from an anime show. (It also helps to be little less of a neenerhead.)
Various Tomatoes Tossed at the Monkey in the Nun's Habit
I still fondly recall the incident where my first grade teacher called in my parents to complain that I wasn't paying attention in class and was clearly not learning to read. I had protested that I knew how to read just fine, and the teacher kept insisting that I didn't. My parents plucked a book off the shelf, and asked me to read aloud...which I did.
I wasn't paying attention because I was BORED.
It amused me to see Harlan write about a similar episode from his own school days. Same approximate age, too.
---
Yeah, I think the guy who dissed Carl Sagan has got to be the same guy who called himself "Fred" in another post, and who posted other crap in days previous. His pathology is too obvious.
---
At this point I think I'm gonna miss BRAVECHRIST, but I should note this much. Remember that scene in A CLOCKWORK ORANGE, the movie, where Alex finds religion in prison and spends hours poring over a Bible? We see him closing his eyes in rapture, and see his vision of a bloody Christ, stumbling through the streets with his cross, while a centurion whips him bloody? And the centurion in this vision is Alex himself? Who is clearly most drawn to this part of the story for all the wrong reasons?
I find it hard to even think of LETHAL JEW 3 without putting Mel Gibson in Alex's place.
It may very well be a work of fine art.
But I am a little aghast at the thought of all the proper church ladies who haven't seen a movie out of the modern Babylon in decades, because of all the sinning don'tchaknow, arriving in busloads to watch Mel's flick. Taking the kids.
Just what are they gonna make of it? - ATC
Dear Cindy & Paris,
I'm familiar with the sort of outrage of which you speak, from
both ends of teh teeter-totter. What it is about school-officialdom
that brings out the bunghole in otherwise human beings, I don't
know. I suspect it's all about power -- as HE once observed (and
I paraphrase), "Give a road worker a flag, and he becomes a
martinet." I have seen children (of various ages) stand up for
themselves quite reasonably in conflicts with supposedly-adult
teachers, only to have said-teachers begin rattling a pair of
steele bearings and muttering about strawberries. And ONLY
parental intervention saved them.
I have also had the less than jolly experience of working in
behavioral modification (for my sins, past and future), and as a
professional, I can assure you that Mr Smith was as wrong as
most of my answers on my college astronomy exam. In correcting
a child's (of any age) behavior, you absolutely DO NOT berate
them, especially in front of others, particularly if the others
are their peers or folks they're going to have to deal with on
a regular, daily basis. If there's one thing that puts a kid in
"You're Not The Boss of Me and I'll SHOW YOU" mode, it's holding
them up to ridicule in front of an audience -- in short, compounding
the error and insuring that such behavior will continue.
Furthermore, I'm not sure that Mr Smith has not exceeded his
official function. Demonstrations of acceptable behavior,
certainly -- but schools, at any level, are meant to teach
students HOW to think, not WHAT to think.
And,...and,...and,... Well, jumping to conclusions is the only
exercize some people get. I wish you well in this confrontation,
and speaking as one who went to school for several years in
Sayre, OK (small enough for ya?), there are those in the community
who are not asbolutely foaming at the mouth. You just have to
wade through a lot of shinola.
People have mentioned Columbine, and I'm STILL touchy about that.
The kids left very explicit notes giving their reasons for their
behavior -- yet, with every news update, all the authorities
were scratching their heads in befuddlement over "Why these young
people did what they did." Apparently, the truth wasn't the
truth they wanted. And it carries on -- people do less investigating
and just make up their minds what's what.
As for home schooling, I'm all for it. A very good friend of
mine is 15 and home schooled and he is a VERY bright, very well-
read young man. He understands math that makes my head hurt and
has read several books as part of his curriculum that I, at 39,
haven't got around to yet. He helps his parents at their book-
store, hangs out with s-f fan weirdos, is well behaved, courteous
and has a wicked sense of humor. And he's one of the nicest
*people* I've met in quite a while. His name is Ben Massoglia,
and he is a Right Guy. Home schooling -- yeah...
MARK: Both your answers are correct. One of my very favorite
movie lines -- "Have someone type this..."
Cheers,
Doc
Of Gods, and other minutae:
I went to see "The Passion", against the better instincts of mine. I never like to go to films where the sensation becomes the drawing card: one only has to recall the American remake of "Godzilla" (no, I wasn't sucked in to that one), to see the best Barnum "This Way to the Great Egress" at play.
Now, as a film goes, it is truly one of the best I've seen so far this year. Okay, it's only late February, but this one does pack a wallop. James Caviezel is excellent as a emotionally tormented Christ, his agony-lined face increasingly foreshadowing the burdens he is carrying, more as a figurative "Son of God"; a man thrown into this circumstance by fate, rather than the professed deity descended and incorporated into human to suffer for our sins. From there, one after another strong performance, especially Monica Belluci as Mary Magdalene, and Rosalinda Celetano as Satan. I applauded the more honest approached to the trial and torture of Jesus, in the face of the criticism of some about the level of brutality. Brutal to us perhaps, but remember the context of the time of Christ. Life was cheap, brutal, and lifespans were miserably short. So, I see nothing wrong with the violence that was presented.
Where the discomfort comes is in for me is the intention of the film, what I would call the Oliver Stone "JFK" conumdrum. I couldn't help coming across numerous people who, after seeing the film sat sanguinely, stating to me "it tells how it really happened". HOW THE FUCK WOULD ANYONE KNOW THAT? Is it the presentation of the visceral and exceptionally violent sequences of Christ's torture and crucifixion? Is it the recounting of Peter's denial of Jesus, the fight in the garden as the Romans come to arrest Christ? Is it the stories we have been told for seemingly countless generations; a mantra of Christianity being pounded into our skulls to the point where rote has become reality, making us accept this allegory when we would dismiss others with a raspberry, a belch, and hurling whatever we have on hand at the screen?
Point being, we have no way of discerning fact, when it comes to the "Son of God" (considering the innumerable translations of the Gospels, even this phrase becomes subject of debate for whether it is to be taken literally), in any his deeds, from the legends of his birth up to his demise. For all we know Jesus could've bribed his way out of Roman chains, retired from the lecture curcuit, then would up marrying off his fifteen handsome daughters, at the same time a proud owner of a chariot racing team in the RCL (Roman Chariot League: forerunner of NASCAR). What scares me is the acceptance of myth as reality, without any real examination of how people come to faith, especially when it is manifested in a single individual.
This is the disturbing part of filmmaking, where a director's personal vision can outstrip the artistry of cinema. In "JFK", Stone blurred the line between telling a fine story (Garrison's tale was worthy of cinematic exploitation simply for the Don Quixote-like aspects of his accusations), and attempt to revise history to suit his personal agenda. One wonders if Gibson, a born again Christian, may have allowed his judgment to be blurred by his beliefs, attempting to use the bully pulpit of mass culture to turn allegory into reality. If you will, creation of a fifth Gospel: The Book of Mel, for the New Testament, only this one'll have a snazzy DVD release, and an director's commentary to outlast the rewrites done in the audience's memory.
I would hope that many go to the film with eyes open, knowing that what is being shown isn't truth, but a person's perception of events, events about which cannot be accurately represented due to the passage of time, and the innate inaccuracy of man.
I don't know, but I'd like to see a film really take on how the believer, more than the messiah creates the faith (Resurrection and "The Apostle" come to mind), and how myth becomes so tacitly accepted as fact, sort of a "Rashomon" that plays with the notion of how we first create our gods, then transmorgrify then into more pleasing shapes when they or their dictates become too weighty or cumbersome for our culture.
Interesting praxis: We recreate out gods in our everchanging cultural image, after they've created us in their literal one. Or is it the other way 'round?...
An afterthought: I wonder if this'll finally get somebody interested in taking on "Behold The Man"? Michael Moorcock deserves the work.
Coming soon: M's Tour of Hell, and other points of interest in the state of Michigan.
M
Y'know, I rarely have time to post lately, but Harlan's last comment to our latest nitwit is truly deserving of praise. Like most of us here, I have excoriated my fair share of ignorami, and I usually try to do so without profanity... but when Harlan straps on his invective, there's not an insult-slinger in the West who can even get close. Here's a tip of the ten-gallon to ya, sir!
best to all,
Michael
P.S. CINDY -- what HE said.
"To try to keep this alive a bit longer, in what movie did Vincent Price call Christopher Lee a "bitch"? Caused a few eyebrows to lift when he said it, let me tell ya! In what movie did *AHEM* Tony Bennett refer to Stephen Boyd as "friend Frankie"? "
GH, as I recall the first was from THE HOUSE OF THE LONG SHADOWS, and the second from THE OSCAR. I could be wrong about both, however.
Sorry I have nothing pithy to relate or opine upon today. Been too busy doing home improvement projects. I keep threatening to force my wife to watch certain Laurel & Hardy films wherein the lads are obliged by one spouse or another to engage in such projects with disastrous result. In fact, I've always been of the opinion that Mrs. Laurel and Mrs. Hardy had it in for their hapless husbands, and only assigned perilous honey-dos in order to collect on their life insurance. On the other hand, I don't want to give the light of my life any ideas, so maybe I'd best leave well enough alone and just keep on muttering 'yes, dear'.
Nice job on the troll, Harlan. I aspire to such vehemence, but never can quite carry it off.
Harlan wrote:
**Since everyone here, myself included, knows there is no "Butch Dosher," and knows, as well, that you are the same insipid and gangrenous pustule who posted all that driftwood as "Yog-Sothoth," et al, a week or so ago, and knows without a smidge of doubt that you are an emptyheaded insulter of your betters, who seeks attention because your mingy little spirit is as ashy as a campfire marshmallow, I have set several of my spiny internet hellhounds on your track, to find out who you actually are -- behind all the sophomoric pseudonyms -- and I intend to make an example of you to all other trolls, gargoyles, kobolds, gnomes and coprophiles who think they can come in here -- arrogant and wearisome and troublesome **
Goddamnit. Just once in my life I want to write something that funny.
Cindy:
You're right about the South not having a monopoly on stupidity. We in Colorado can compete with the best of them.
Speaking of stupidity(in school), you wrote, "Am I just unable to see the degree of her bad behaviour because she's my least? Or is the principal being a hardass unnecessarily?" It's the latter, trust me.
I do feel for Paris and her situation. Oh, the stories I could tell. One of the things I learned while attending school was the scope and murky depth of the bureaucratic mindset. I see the character of the feckless Principal Skinner on the Simpsons, or the clueless school officials in South Park and I recognise what I see from personal experience.
I've also learned that Zero Tolerance equals Zero Intelligence. It's not just small town schools that are guilty of that, either. Or state schools, for that matter.
During 1964 through '65, I went to Elanor Roosevelt Elementary in Morrisville, PA. Typical suburban school. My fourth grade teacher...now there was a piece of work. I don't remember her name. I only remember she looked like George Washington. If she were merely strict, I would not have had a problem. No, she would single out students (like me) to ridicule in front of the whole class. She was also rather open about the fact that she didn't particularly like children. The principal, Mr. Oppenheimer, refused to do anything about her, even when the parents came in on him like the torch-bearing villagers in the Frankenstein movies. He did not want to challenger her as a tenured teacher, even though he legally would have been right to do so. I learned that the school officials were more interested in covering their fundiments rather than teaching children. We just didn't matter.
I had a few run-ins with school officials, and I was never a loud or obnoxious kid. Just the opposite, in fact. I have since come to the conclusion that school officials are not only fools, but that they are required to be. It's not written, but the people who care, who really are interested in teaching kids usually have the worst time with officialdom.
One thing they do have a hard time dealing with is a parent in a high dudgeon. I think Harlan gave good advice when he told you to have Paris with you when you see whoever you need to see. Go get 'em, tigress! I know you'll handle this one well. Tell Paris she's got a number of people rooting for her, including her mom. She'll come out of the experience fine, after that, and a little wiser.
Chuck
CINDY:
As a kid who was ALWAYS in trouble in grade school, and even before that, in kindergarten, I URGE YOU in the strongest possible terms, by all means to go and have a chat with Mr. Smith and/or the Principal ... or whoever else ... but MAKE CERTAIN your kid is in the room with you and them, from word-one, from the git-go (none of this "wait out here while your mommy and we have a chat" crap), so she can see for herself and take strength from the scenes that will NEVER leave her memory, that her mom loves her, believes her, and can be depended on to come to her aid against The Bad Mans, with trust and valor.
I have never given you better advice.
Go git'm, baby!
Yr. old pal, Harlan
Neal: your Chloe's remark may not have been polite dinner table conversation, but it sure made me laugh!!
On the subject of autism-related disorders: my son's two best friends are a pair of twins with mild Asperger's syndrome, and some of the things they come out with are priceless: from the brutally honest ("Is that what you're making for dinner? It smells awful!") to the very sweet (when each of my kids had friends over to play, and an adult friend of mine came over: "I'm glad you're here so Dorie will have someone to play with too.")There's something to be said for a person who always says EXACTLY what he's thinking :)
Cindy: I think a lot of schools are responding to the increase in schoolkids' behaviour problems with the so-called "zero tolerance policy". Very little thought is involved. When my son was 8, in second grade, he made the dire mistake of "mooning" a couple of his friends in the hallway. I understand that this is not Appropriate School Conduct, but you'd have thought he committed a crime. I was instructed to take him home IMMEDIATELY, he was not allowed to finish the day at school. I had a phone call from the principal, we had to have a "meeting" with school counselor and another with the teacher, and for the next week, my son had to eat his lunch in the principal's office and stay inside at recess. The counselor wondered how we might avoid such behaviour in the future. Well, said my son, I shouldn't have worn sweatpants to school. This wouldn't have happened if I were wearing jeans, it takes me too long to unbutton.
"BUTCH DOSHER":
Since everyone here, myself included, knows there is no "Butch Dosher," and knows, as well, that you are the same insipid and gangrenous pustule who posted all that driftwood as "Yog-Sothoth," et al, a week or so ago, and knows without a smidge of doubt that you are an emptyheaded insulter of your betters, who seeks attention because your mingy little spirit is as ashy as a campfire marshmallow, I have set several of my spiny internet hellhounds on your track, to find out who you actually are -- behind all the sophomoric pseudonyms -- and I intend to make an example of you to all other trolls, gargoyles, kobolds, gnomes and coprophiles who think they can come in here -- arrogant and wearisome and troublesome -- and I'm going to find out where you live. And then, as comes to all bullies, sunset will fall on your personal horizon, and you and I will meet on some appropriate, unexpected, level playing field.
As for Carl Sagan ... had you one one-millionth of the wit, the class, the smarts, and the good heart possessed by Carl, you would not be the sweating sac of poisonous pus you demonstrate yourself to be. Enjoy your safety for the nonce, "Yog-SoButch," because sooner than you'll imagine, you'll be considering the words "arm's length" with something very close to panic.
You're by no means the first wretch to whom I've made such assurances in my life; but never once have I failed to fulfill same. Turtles do not unclench till the thunder rolls.
Harlan Ellison
Darn. All this Pilate talk (and yeah, there's a new Toronto band named Pilate, too, but the veejays keep pronouncing it 'Pie-lay-tee') causes me to ask a question of the collective brain trust.
What the heck is the name of the Anatole France story in which Pilate and another Roman are sitting around talking? I'm trying to remain spoiler free in the event that someone comes across it and hasn't read it because it's a neat story. With a twist ending.
So neat I can't remember the title. That ring any bells? Pilate? Anatole France? It's definitely not the France story about the juggler and the Virgin Mary that Spider Robinson translated.
Take care. And help.
Jon
Surrender to Lincoln Manacher
Ya got me, pal! It's a great line and I wish I knew where itT was from but I don't. I wish I had used it on a couple of my former bosses, although, on the day I quit a certain job I did give my ex-boss a 45 rpm record of "Take This Job and Shove It." Ah yes, those were the days... To try to keep this alive a bit longer, in what movie did Vincent Price call Christopher Lee a "bitch"? Caused a few eyebrows to lift when he said it, let me tell ya! In what movie did *AHEM* Tony Bennett refer to Stephen Boyd as "friend Frankie"? Who talks like that? FRiend Frankie? Do you refer to your buddies like that, FRIEND Lincoln? Does anyone? Look, even an otherwise brilliant writer can have an off day, let's just put it that way.Until Harlan invites Fred over for Dinner (In fact, until Harlan invites ME over for dinner...)Survive!
Hanging In, or Merely Hanging
Going on third month of consecutive weeklong road trips. Mind deteriorating, bored with the sheep, no longer amused by watching the chickens eat baguettes. Experiencing Turette’s-style episodes while driving long distances with the inevitable reckless French asshole hiding his hood ornament in my tailpipe at 140 km/h on winding mountain roads.
I could use a good head butt from Frank Church, to clear the mind and get the mojo humming.
Cindy:
Mark Twain is quoted saying, “God made an idiot for practice, then he made a school board.” This dovetails very nicely with something one of the best teachers I ever had told me, in one of his more ironical moods, to be sure: ‘’Those who can’t do, teach. Those who can’t teach, teach the teachers.’’ Taken together, this suggests that the descending heirarchy of idiocy in our educational system is a centuries old and unalterable tradition in America, thankfully and perennially counter-balanced by a masochistic yet saintly cadre of long suffering and talented TEACHERS that are drawn inexplicably to submit themselves to the authority of morons so that they might fight the good fight in actually educating our young.
God bless these people. They know who they are.
Anyway, I’m sorry to hear that your kid crossed one of the sad little clods that inhabit our educational system.
They are irritating indeed.
But my advice is, suffer a fool to live. He can’t help being what he is, and there is no cure for what ails him.
I talked with each of my brood today.
The two-year old carried on a heated and barely comprehensible debate as to whether Sylvester the puddy-tat might actually be a doggie. I think she has a future in politics. The three year old informed me that she still has bones. The five year old asked if his eyes will be open when he dies, and if that might not happen for a long time. The eight month old stuck with a time tested series of animal grunts that translate roughly to, “Feed me!” Apparently he has realized that no long term plan for world domination can be put into execution when you only weigh sixteen pounds.
The six-year old, who turned seven today, informed me that she is making a book for Harlan, and that it is called, ‘My New Friend’. I explained that Mr. Ellison doesn’t accept unsolicited manuscripts, but she wrote and illustrated the book anyway. I told her we’ll keep it up by the signed copy of ‘Deathbird Stories’, so that she can read it along with the rest of the great works of literature when she’s older.
Cindy and Paris
Cindy,
In my years of dealing with creatures like that I am not surprised that something like a spelling lesson became a large, life-stopping issue for the administration.
On one hand, it's just Detention. Detention is something every kid should go through in school if just to illustrate why it's a bad thing. I went to detention once or twice every year between 7th and 12th and usually for the same minor transgression Paris committed against common decency and the all-mighty public education system. What I learned from it was that authority isn't always right, adults can be just as petty and stubborn as the children they teach and I'd better watch my ass. (Oh, and I also learned where and when I could buy some great weed, how to hot-wire a Volkswagon beetle, and what cafeteria food a girl's hoo-hoo most resembled. This was probably more useful information than I'd learned my entire year of Geomtery.)
Once, during a test for which no one was prepared in a Geometry class, I dignified a teacher's long-winded, badly-worded question with "Damned if I know. Could you reword the question better?" After showing said question to the Assistant Principal (I didn't possess a firearm or go down on a classmate during a test, so I didn't rate The Big Man) he admitted the question was poorly constructed, but my use of the "D" word netted me a trip to Detention for a week. I was once sent to detention for saying "fuck" during a presentation on Free Speech. Sometimes you just gotta wonder. My "F" bomb only earned me a DAY.
I've had calls from Holden's school about his lack of interest in certain books they are encouraged to read during quiet time. They don't like the fact that he questions "why" and tries to be funny at lunch. I shit you not. These things are "deeply concerning" issues that allegedly prevent him from being a constructive member of the drone class of society.
Ever since schools entered the paranoid and scatterbrained realm of "zero tolerance" they are trying to enforce and support policies over which they demonstrate no level of understanding. By introducing a policy and making it uniform for everyone they undercut the individual and try to pretend that all children are the same trained monkey grooving to the happy dance. That's why they didn't let Paris answer the charges against her. At best, it shows they don't care and, at worst, they betray a true hatred and fear of what they must think is a horde of evil, bloodthirsty monsters bent on gunning down the track team during lunch.
I had the same problem with Holden last year. He was accused of cheating by his teacher and sent to the principal. The pricipal tore him up and down, threatened to suspend him and called him a liar for denying he did it. This he did despite not seeing or being involved with the situation. When Holden tried to explain, the principal cut him off and said, "All I want to hear you say is 'I'm a cheater and I'm sorry.'" Holden refused on grounds he'd be lying and asked that his mother be called. (I was so proud of him.)
TURNS OUT that the teacher had it all wrong. She talked to the other students and there were about six others who thought the quiz was over and were trading papers to correct as they were taught to do in previous exams. She corrected her error and sent a note home to his mother.
It'll be a learning experience for Paris and a trip to sit with the Thugs as you call them might give her an Ellisonian insight into the public school judicial system.
PS - not that I'm whoring my wares here, but if you have to appeal it to the school board, here's something to wear to hearing: http://www.cafeshops.com/zebrapix.9892739
Delurking for my first post
Cindy,
Your schooling situation has convinced me to delurk and pipe in...
I can relate to living in the middle of nowhere and have seen firsthand the mentalities of school administrators. Filled with good ol' boy, sexist, know it all attitudes (in southern Delaware, at least...). I would imagine Texas has quite the "good 'ol boy network," as well? And, as DTS illustrated, any attempted involvement is treated as "troublemaking." In many cases, the public school system is failing our children (sweeping generalization/localization, I know...)
So, in the interst of keeping this short and not ranting too much in my first post...what do you Webderlanders think of home schooling...?
It is generally scoffed at - much like a third party in the political system. And, of course, not every family can even consider it (single moms working mulitple jobs, for example...). Nonetheless, based on a number of experiences and research, my wife and I are planning to home school our first child (well, first child, together - I've got a teenage stepdaughter) and I'd love to hear everyones' thoughts.
(So, um...yes, Cindy, you were right. Yes, that was my original point, wasn't it...?)
And, in the remote chance that HE still remembers: I am the same guy from Delaware who flew down to Heroes Con in Charlotte to watch you hold court a few years ago. I still think of your tale of meeting Bruce Lee whenever his name comes up! (You've got to see it to appreciate it, folks...)
Scott Challman
A Little Literary Note...
For a REAL interesting read into Pontius Pilate, check out Mikhail Bulgakov's depiction in THE MASTER AND MARGARITA. Bulgakov doesn't excuse Pilate's responsibility in Christ's crucifixion, but neither does he portray him as an entirely monstrous man. Ironically, later in the novel Pilate manages to understand Christ's teachings more than one of his own disciples, Matthew the Levite, ever did. (Matthew's also something of an intriguing character. In some ways, he represents the more radical 'interpretations' of Jesus that would eventually evolve into the historical 'facts' that help fuel many anti-Semitic groups today.)
United States
>When I want some spiritual enlightenment, I’ll put on a U2 album.<
I go for the Stones meself! Cheers.
Steve, we disagree on the collaboration of the Jewish leadership with the Romans in the execution. It has been attested in just about every source we have that Jesus was arrested by Caiaphas's guard, and brought to the Romans for permission to execute. It's pretty clear to me that Jesus was perceived as a threat to established religious order, and arrested for that reason. It's also clear that the Pilate had no problem signing the order.
It's a common misconception, fostered by Hollywood, that Judea and Jerusalem were filled with Roman soldiers on every corner, keeping the peace like some martial force. Actually, they were stationed on the borders of the province, and most Judeans/Galileans never saw a Roman. Pilate lived on the coast at Caesaria, and came into Jerusalem a few times a year for polticial purposes, this one being Passover. He brought a personal guard with him during these times, but there was no standing Roman army anywhere near Jerusalem.
My point is that Jesus was arrested by the Jewish leaders who were running Jerusalem, and brought to Pilate for permission to execute. Again, a permission he had no problem granting. The Romans wanted two things from their provinces: peace and tribute, and they worked with Herod in Galilee and the Sanhedrin in Judea to achieve these goals.
This isn't anti-Semitism, it's politics. I believe Mussolini had a few Italians killed himself...is it "anti-Italian" to say so?
Nebulas and starcrossed children in the public school system
ALL: Harlan's good friend Robert Silverberg is getting the Grand Master Award at the Nebula Award ceremonies this year. Next year: Harlan or bust (this year, another short story Nebula award).
CINDY: I don't know if the public school system in a small town is the same as those in the KC metro area, but my experience was that the "circle the wagons" as soon as you complain about problems, mistakes or fucked-up teachers. During my daughter's elementary school years, I started off complaining about the lack of supervision on the playground (2 teachers, over 30 kids) 'cause my daughter got hurt several times, once getting pushed off of some equipt. by boy who was much bigger. Then, later on, there was an egregious problem with a teacher (my daughter's grades climbed dramatically after we got her away from that teacher), who, at one point, told the kids, "I say what goes on here in the classroom, and don't talk to your parents about it." Needless to say, she wasn't fired, despite my best efforts and a meeting with the Superintendent, principal,teacher, etc. That school did, however, start a "file" on me, recording anything I said or anything that was overheard by the teacher/gestapo crowd when I mumbled in frustration. Later, during her last year there, I started talking to this cop -- "Officer Friendly, who sometimes came to talk with the students about drugs -- during the course of our conversation, I learned that he had been called there to watch over me (apparently, one final verbal complaint had been taken as a threat).
I've had a few incidents at Middle (or Junior High) school, one involving my having to go to higher authorities because the principal thought it was necessary to give children "tardies" if they went to the bathroom during class (basically punishing them if nature called -- 7 tardies and they got detention). Ever since Columbine, our public school system has become more like a Nazis concentration camp and less like a place of learning. What's equally sad is that whenever I've tried to fight for my daughter's rights -- and those of other children -- I've found most parents to be uninvolved or uninterested.
I think you should fight for your daughter. She shouldn't be punished because of an administrator who doles out punishment with one eye closed and both ears covered. Good luck.
--DTS
Cindy,
Your pastor was right. And, if I understand the situation correctly, Mr. Smith is a clueless bureaucratic bumbler whose thinking is located in his head (which is a good thing), but his head is stuck in the disposal chute of all useless human waste (which is bad). It sounds as though he handles children like they were an oil tanker and he was captain of the Valdeez.
Nothing will entice children to learn more about the “F” word than an adult’s histrionics. (“Cool. Did you see how pissed off he was? I bet this word is even better than pissed!”) To have created such a scene flies in the face of every legitimate approach to this situation. Incredible…a first grader…and he chose to go with a public execution.
Your reaction is true and just. This not only warrants a visit to Mr. Smith, but, in the event you do not receive satisfaction within the first five minutes of your discussion, a tirade that makes Mr. Smith wish he had never left the halls of academia where he apparently learned everything about teaching from listening in the halls rather than actually attending a class.
Two important points he needs to understand. One – children are humans, and they are to be treated as such. They have their own side to the story, and it should be taken into account. Two – children are growing humans – they are learning about life, and they are learning self-respect. Never (repeat this one to him – loudly and forcibly. Remember, his ears are attached to his head which, as I mentioned earlier, is shoved so far up his butt it will take screaming for him to hear.) NEVER destroy a child’s self-esteem. And never, NEVER, NEVER!!!, if he is dunderheaded enough to make the mistake of taking on such destruction, do it in front of the child’s peers, teachers, or even bus drivers. No human should be subjected to such treatment. And no human should have to watch another human go through such treatment. (Then again, maybe part of Mr. Smith’s problem is that has no comprehension of the term human.)
I apologize for going off, but this strikes a nerve. The short answer – you are correct.
(Why do I only seem to chime in on the questions about children?)
Good luck
Mike
a singular dinner guest
Unca Harlan's fine list of dinner guests of a few nights past make for quite the gathering.
How about this dining experience:
My 9 year-old daughter and I were having one of our rare dinners together (mom and I divorced 7 years ago and I don't get to see the kid often enough). Chloe has a very mild form of autism (PDD-NOS), an autistic spectrum disorder. She functions hundreds of times higher than the Raymond Babbitt (sp?)character in the movie "Rain Man", for example. But she parrots a lot, repeats the things she hears on tv and the radio verbatim.
So I am sitting down to dinner with this cherub of mine, a bright and shining jewel in my tarnished crown, and I ask her, "Where did the salt go?"
Chloe's answer? "Maybe it's up your butt."
Ahh, yes. Please pass the guffaws.
Respectfully,
Neal
Alex Krislov: Having seen Christ-as-Bing-Crosby in SCTV's brilliant spoof of Ben Hur, I myself never need to see another Christ. He cured leopardsy, he wore golf pants, and he handed out martinis -- truly, he was the Son of God!
Cheers, Jon
Y'all know I live in the middle of no where and when it comes to publications, if it ain't the Livestock Journal or The Thrifty Nickle-- I probably don't have access to it and never will. I've been to the city twice in 15 years. I'd really like to read Harlan's obituary for Julie. If any of y'all find it someplace accessible on the web please, PLEASE let me know. It would mean alot to me.
Cindy
Okay,
Today my little 7 year old first grader got off the bus in tears. She informed me that she had a note from the elementary school principal. It was a DETENTION notice for AFTER SCHOOL DETENION which is reserved for thugs. MY baby! My little Paris who is probably the sweetest and most sensitive of my legion of offspring. The notice said she had been given detention for
" helping another student spell out the F-word".
My pastor was here at the time and he dryly remarked, " If she spelled it correctly I don't see the problem."
God bless 'im.
But Paris said that she didn't spell the word, in fact, she told the girl who was attempting to spell it NOT to say " CK".... she added that she told the boy who asked her what went WITH the "CK" that the other letters were U and F. She said she tried to explain this to Mr.Smith but he woudln't allow to her finish her sentence which was, " but I didn't give them the letters in ORDER."My problem with Mr.Smith is that he called her down on it in front of every kid on her school bus and the driver.
I think this warrants a visit to Mr.Smith. If she didn't write it or spell it how can she be punished for answering the questions of her fellow students?
Am I just unable to see the degree of her bad behaviour because she's my least? Or is the principal being a hardass unnecessarily?
Oh, I asked her where she learned to spell that word and she said she learned it from Briggs last year. Briggs is her 10 year old brother.
Yeah, he's mine too.
Too close to call it and be fair,
Cindy
Of Passion, William Goldman and "Evil Movies"
THE PASSION OF THE CHRIST
I went to see The Passion of the Christ this past Wednesday at my wife’s urging; she was a covert to Catholicism as an adult and was keen on seeing it asap. As a lapsed (and hopefully, soon to be an ex-) Catholic, I viewed this Mel Gibson’sproject with a rather jaundiced and skeptical eye. I’ve had this story drummed into my head since age five; I’ve been there and back many, many, MANY times and was happy to abandon The Church as a free thinking adult.
I went in being as dispassionate, open and objective as I possibly could, as I try to do with any film. What I found was that Mel Gibson was right on target; The Passion of the Christ delivers the goods, at least to his intended audience, Christian believers of all stripes. He skillfully and carefully balances a combination of the Gospel narratives and brief flashbacks.
The scope of the film is decidedly anti-epic. The violence committed against him (or Him if you prefer) is horrific; it’s used to underscore Jesus’ suffering for all of humanity. It ain’t easy to look at and that was Gibson’s intention; he dares you NOT to look away.
I know that it is unavoidable that people are going to misinterpret the movie’s meaning to persecute those of the Jewish faith. I do not think there was any malice intended to this effect. What I think Gibson was trying to relate is that the mob calling for his crucifixion does not represent the Jews as a whole but ALL those who do either don’t understand or refuse to consider his teachings.
But to those who look closely enough, the cease and desist order for discrimination of other religions is right there, in the excerpts of the Sermon on the Mound and the Last Supper and there is nothing subtle about it.
And yes, having an 85 year old dad is as crazy as a bedbug when it comes to “Jewish conspiracies” and believing the Holocaust was over-hyped propaganda does not help matters any. I also hope that he and God will have a very long and interesting discussion at the pearly gates before he’s escorted to the elevator to Elsewhere, going down.
Debbie, I respect your decision not to see The Passion of the Christ; I consider you informed enough NOT to see it. My wife was weeping for joy at the end and has been reading her family Bible to reinforce her faith for the past few days. I came out only slightly dazed with perfectly normal endorphin levels.
I didn’t need to see it but I’m glad to have seen it, I’m glad I got it over with and I’m NEVER going there again. When I want some spiritual enlightenment, I’ll put on a U2 album.
WILLIAM GOLDMAN
Someone mentioned William Goldman a few days ago; for what it’s worth, I have found his screenplays very instructive and his books of essays and insights of the film world incredibly invaluable especially if you have any inkling or notion of working with (or invariably in most cases, very much against) the people who work in the film world. In particular, he is very honest and up front about the processes of making movies and he also does not spare himself of criticism and admits to his own missteps and fuck ups as well. I learned more from reading William Goldman (and Harlan’s efforts as well, BTW) than I ever will from screenwriting gurus Syd Field and Robert McKee.
FILMS THAT HAVE WASTED MY TIME
In my book there are no evil films, only those that are illogical, pointless, that bore or robbed me of precious time to do something more worthwhile. Some of the guilty parties: The Black Hole, The Last American Virgin, Barbarella, Outland, Star Trek V: The Final Frontier (which made the first movie look like The Merchant of Venice in comparison), Return of the Jedi, Good Will Hunting, Robin Hood: Prince of Thieves, Nightfall, The Three Musketeers (the ’93 Disney version), Starship Troopers, Titanic, Shakespeare in Love and Top Gun easily come to mind. I’d rather read the Yellow Pages cover to cover than see any of these movies again!
Second post today, so you won't hear from me tomorrow.
ERIC: I agree that the soft portrayal of Pilate is not knew in film or literature (The Catholic Church turned that butcher into a saint). But as Scorsese showed, a film-maker has options. Half this film comes from "The Passion" tradition and not from the Bible at all. And clearly, this film does not stick to the facts. Yet, the few facts they stick too elevate the Romans and debase the Jews. How come all these people are out at a killing and not preparing for the Passover Sabbath? Does that sound realistic? Why would Jews be cheering for a terror weapon like crucifixion when it was used against them all the time?
Also: why is following the perspectives of the Gospels the best way to honor Jesus? Why not retell the story and show what really happened? You could show a popular Rabbi who was horribly tortured to death by Romans, just as Akiva was later tortured to death, just as thousands more were.
As for the high priests being likely for collusion with Romans. Well, I say that's bunk. The only reason the high priests might have acquiesced to executions during Passover is if they felt that it might keep scores of other Jews from being killed. Everything we think we know about Caiaphas and Annas comes from the Christian tradition, which is false in big ways. Here's one that important gospel falsehood that might surprise you, Caiaphas and Annas did not even serve as high priests at the same time in history(The New Testament depiction of this is baloney). Here's another point: most of the details for the crucifixion were cribbed from Psalm 22 because no witnesses were alive when it was described. That's where the piercing of Chrsit's hands and feet comes from (so vivid in the Gibson version) as well as the casting of lots for his garments. That's all invented detail that in no way reflects an actual crucifixion.
Sorry to reply again today, Rick. I'll take a few days off.
Steve Dooner
Rick, received this email, but doubtful from you. Making you aware of a possible situation...
Subj: Flayers among us
Date: 2/27/2004 6:13:46 PM Eastern Standard Time
From: webmaster@harlanellison.com
To:
File: ddacdca.zip (15994 bytes) DL Time (52000 bps): < 1 minute
Sent from the Internet (Details)
(Ed. Notes - Not from me. Most spam/virus e-mails "spoof" addresses. I don't use the harlanellison.com domains in any of my mail programs.)
Here's another, from Footlight Parade:
Joan Blondell, to a golddigging ex-galpal who wonders aloud how to make ends meet now that she's burned every guy off whom she's leeched: "As long as there are sidewalks, you've got a job!"
Films, good, evil & indifferent
I must say, I find the idea of evil films amusing. Not because there are none--there are plenty--but surely we can all think of more evil books, yes? Are films really more influential, over time, than books? Is any film as evil as, say, "The Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion" or "The Turner Diaries." Both of these helped cause actual murder, after all--quite a bit of it.
I still enjoyed reading people's nominations for the list of evil films. Particularly Harlan's choice of "Contact." I rather liked that film until the ending. But the ending was such an utter betrayal of Carl Sagan that no expression of disgust at the film-makers will suffice to say how I felt. Sagan's book, I remember even after all these years, was resolutely on the side of rationality. The protagonist's "vision" could be falsified--it could be tested scientifically. I dimly recall that Sagan posited three methods of testing the vision. But in the film, ahh, faith, sweet faith, overcomes all, including the protagonist's believe in mere rationality. Faz baz. But I admit I wasn't tempted to reread the original book, so perhaps my memory is false.
Am I really the only person here who isn't going to see "The Passion of the Christ" because I have no interest in Jesus flicks?
All right GH, here's the most Harlanesque line ever written: You tell me where it comes from. Raymond Burr gives his boss a punch in the jaw and punctuates it with "Don't bother to fire me. I just quit!"
might as well teel you; you'll never guess it on your own
KB7608163 -- Identification numer on mug shot frequently seen on wanted poster of David Janssen as Dr. Richard Kimble, THE FUGITIVE. V194 -- License plate number of THE GREEN HORNET's Black Beauty. Posted twice in same day. Shoot me.
lines and brains
Actually, Flavian, with all due respect, the line was, "Where's the REST of me?!?!?!" He used that line, without the excess question marks and exclamation points I took the liberty of adding here, as the title of his first ghost-written autobiography, in 1965. Many pundits have since come to beleve that the line referred to his brain.............It could also refer to a certain Fred's brain, now that I stop and think about it. What a cretin. Also, Bogart never said "Play it again, Sam," either despite what Woody Allen would have us believe. Another illusion destroyed. Are there none left?
May be a little before your time Rick, but try a movie called "Kings Row" on for size. This warped weirdo of a movie was actually nominated for 3 academy awards as it features a doctor whose hobby is amputating legs that don't need amputation.
He makes house calls too so you can get the treatment with family and friends on hand. Ronald Reagan gets this "therapy" and responds with the now famous line "Where are my legs?" when he comes out of anesthesia.
>In "Last Temptation of Christ," a more historical retelling of the tale. Pilate was emotionally distanced about the problem, but hardly bloodthirsty--he had a dramatic (but historically improbable) private conversation with Jesus while grooming his horse.
I thought Bowie's Pilate came off as a cool, indifferent bureaucrat, a Roman Eichmann who'd dealt with so many "Jewish politicians" - and sent so many off to Golgotha ("there are three thousand skulls there...I do wish you people would go and count them...you might learn something...no, probably not") - that he was utterly bored by the whole thing and couldn't be bothered to be bloodthirsty. Not exactly a sympathetic character.
Harlan: On the cover of the Comics Buyer's Guide. What a wonderful Obituary you wrote for Julie Schwartz. Just lovely. The last two lines made me cry.
WHAT WOULD WE DO WITHOUT THE INTERNET?
Yes, without it where else would we encounter a human being, speaking very loosely here, like Fred, whoever he or she, perhaps, may be? I have a feeling that he eagerly lapped up evry negative thing we said about him while he was grinning from ear to ear. It feeds his little ego, I'm guessing, just to be noticed. That's enough for him. He dosen't care about being despised. He may even enjoy being loathed, who knows? Oh well. He claimsto be gone for good. Let's just hope so. And once again, Harlan, you are a class act for how you so polietly blew him away... . Check out Richard Widmark in PICKUP ON SOUTH STREET and MADIGAN on DVD, that greatest of all video formats.For his sake, however don't bother with his TO THE DEVIL< A DAUGHTER which may be the worst Hammer Film ever made. Except for Christopher Lee, of course. He"s always good....Speaking of movies in the home, anyone here remember Castle Films, which were 10-minute excerpts from feature films on eight-millimeter film, sold in camera stores, department stores, and more rarely, even a few toy stores. Before home video, they were all we had...Well, I've already used Harlanite, Harlanian and Harlanholic, and I refuse to use Harlanmeister. So, until next time, Harlan and company, see you later, and as the title of a Bad Phoebe Cates movie puts it ... DROP DEAD< FRED.
Evil movies, for me it has to be Richard Linklaters Slackers. A film that had me reaching for the nearest automatic weapon. A movie that wanted me to bludgen any asswipe who would defend it by saying it was great piece of art.
I hated the self obessed assholes who whined away their time by shooting off pretencious self important crap that I had heard at undergraduate dining tables the world over. Richard Linklater has made some good films but Slackers is honestly the only film that had me wanting to kill people.
FAQ
Evil
I am surprised no one has mentioned KICKBOXING ACADEMY yet. This is by far the most evil of all films, worse even than the Olsen twin movies. If you can make it all the way through this movie, you will have a new and never-topped appreciation for evil. I challenge anyone who thinks they have a strong constitution because they could make it through 2 hours of Jesus being turned into hamburger to survive it.
As far as aliens go it's always funny when someone assumes an "advanced race" would have superior morals or ethics to our own. Almost as funny as when people go on about how animals don't have war. It reminds me a little bit of Pierce Brosnan's first speech in MARS ATTACKS.
The degree to which we tend to be respectively aggressive and social to our fellow man is largely a function of evolutionary pressure. The only requirement for a spacefaring species would be that their behavior allowed them to survive the technology allowing interstellar travel without wiping themselves out. If humans have made it as long as we have with biological and nuclear advancement, it's likely a race as immoral as us (or more so) could make it even longer.
>Imagine having a concentration camp commandant come off as more merciful than his victims. That's why everyone is so upset.<
I'm a little confused about this. A merciful Pilate is hardly new in cinema. In "Jesus Christ Superstar" he was practically weeping over Jesus, begging the crowd to release him, and there was no doubt in that movie that Caiaphas and the Sanhedrin were the movers behind the execution.
In "Last Temptation of Christ," a more historical retelling of the tale. Pilate was emotionally distanced about the problem, but hardly bloodthirsty--he had a dramatic (but historically improbable) private conversation with Jesus while grooming his horse.
As you move from the earliest gospel (Mark) to the most recent one (John), there is a steady progression of absolving the Romans and blaming the Jews. In the non-canonical Gospel of Peter, written even later, the writer goes so far as to say that King Herod had Jesus executed, thus removing the hand of Rome entirely.
The most likely scenario is that the Romans gladly and quickly executed Jesus on the behalf of a threatened priesthood with which they cooperated in the adminstration of the province. There's plenty of "blame" to go around, not just for Jesus's death, but for the summary killings of scores of doomsayers and rabble-rousers.
How a filmmaker is supposed to address this turbulent period without "offending" someone who seems to think the actions of people 2000 years ago has bearing on themselves, is beyond me. But then I've never really understood the cult of anti-Semitism, which I know exists in the less-educated classes, but who really cares what they think, anyway? It's just a movie, and like all movies, everyone will forget about it in three weeks.
Elitely, Eric
Hi Harlan:
Regarding the late Carl Sagan: Was he as big a jerk as I think he was? He seemed to think an advanced race would want to talk to us. About what? Cannibalism? What else would we be qualified to talk about?
ALEX JAY: I'm on it.
Harlan
Trolls, Gibson, et cetera
Firstly, allow me to apologize for multiple posting here day before yesterday. In my exuberance, I mislaid the proscription against doing so somewhere in the dark recesses of my brain. Mea culpa. I will endeavor to refrain from such excesses in future.
This one-a-day requirement does force one to carefully consider what one posts here, doesn't it? At least it should, which is the subject of my first topic.
1) Trolls
Many years ago, THE JOURNAL FOR IRREPRODUCABLE RESULTS included in one of their issues a formula for determining the intelligence of a mob. You take the IQ of the average member of said body, and divide that quotient by the number of people in the mob. I don't think it's altogether unfair to suggest that trolls such as have recently visited these premises represent the internet version of the mob as described in the aforementioned article. These individuals merely replace the anonymity of mob membership with the aegis of internet anonymity as justification for their vitriolic missives, with a roughly similar level of intellectual prowess.
2) Evil on celluloid
Point well taken, Deb, about what constitutes a truly evil film. I do stand by my previous assertion that the two silent films I mentioned before, because of the long-term cultural consequences of their messages, qualify as evil. I believe that a film that encourages virulent racism, needless euthanasia, violence against other human beings or any other such psychological pathology can be considered evil.
I have teenage daughters. I object to butcher-knife-and-training-bra slasher movies because I love my children and resent the intended or incidental message of such films that the massacre of adolescents is an entertainment approved and endorsed by society. Sure, they're annoying as hell sometimes, even infuriating, but I draw the line at advocating they be disembowelled or decapitated. So, by my standards, films such as the planned remake of HOUSE OF WAX is, based on such advance information as I have been able to obtain, are evil. I feel the same way about the FRIDAY THE 13TH movies. I am willing, however, to reserve final judgment pending more information.
3) Gibson
I will see THE PASSION before rendering a personal verdict thereupon as regards it being evil or not, although I will likely wait for it to come out on DVD. Apparently viewing it in large groups has a significant emotional impact upon my co-religionists, which I would prefer to avoid. Nor do I wish to have my opinion colored by those who express their legitimate concerns outside the theater. I like making up my own mind, based solely on my own impressions informed by my temperament, education, and experience, as much as is possible.
Going in, I will keep in mind the words of (IIRC) Carl Becker, that there is no history, only historiography. As a semi-professional historian (in that I have a BA in the subject, and have earned a small sum of money for a couple of historical mysteries I've had published - and, yes, I know that's really stretching it close to the breaking point), I take anything presented on screen with a salt lick the size of Gibralter. Having made my peace with that makes it easier for me to enjoy a film simply as a film, not as a purported representation of events whose veracity is moot.
But that's just me. I neither advocate nor endorse my methods for anyone else. I find dogmatism from any quarter repellant, and do my imperfect best to dogmatically avoid it in myself. I do not always succeed, as reflected in my opinions of BIRTH OF A NATION or THE BLACK STORK. I apologize for my frailty. Mea maxima culpa.
Hope I covered everything I intended to today. Looking forward to tomorrow, when I may once again venture into the melee. :{)
A nice surprise
I have no agenda for this post, hence I issue this early dribble warning of WoMD (words of mass distraction) for your convenience. It's gushy, too.
It is 1:28am on Saturday morning Melbourne time, 28th February. I just got home from bar hopping and chatting-up the lovely women in this city with another single friend of mine. I got nowhere, but I hope that every attempted polite exchange somehow countered the Bronze Age dialogue these women tend to attract on any given night.
Upon arriving home and exhausting my usual internet links, I checked the Webderland link and discovered that this forum (which I have never looked at) was very much alive. Great!
I have only skimmed the previous posts. All are well-written and thoughtful, as I expected them to be. Like most fans here, I too have roughly 20+ Harlan Ellison paperbacks in my bookshelf. Most remain unread of course. I am 34 years old now, and with say 50 good years left, I am looking forward to reading all of your/Mr Ellison's back catalogue. As much as I like the fiction, I return most often to HE's non-fiction: the introductions, essays, and miscellaneous contributions to other books and publications. How many times have I read his valentine to Clark Ashton Smith in HORROR: THE BEST 100 BOOKS? Countless times. I do not own HARLAN ELLISON'S WATCHING, but I have read his two Stephen King entries in KINGDOM OF FEAR (Hodder & Staughton, UK, paperback) about as many times as I have masturbated thus far in my life. Actually, include the intro to PRAYERS TO BROKEN STONES to that tally as well. I love fiction, but creatively, my passion is writing non-fiction. I think Harlan's talents in this mode are exceptional. I can only hope to scale the foothills of his non-fiction achievements one day. This is why I was excited to find this forum - it has recent posts by Harlan himself.
David Lynch referred to Cronenberg's THE FLY as "Scary, scary stuff" in LYNCH ON LYNCH. It scared the poo out of me on its theatrical release in Australia. I was actually underage at the time, since the censors gave it an R 18+ rating (no one under 18 admitted) but this was by a matter of 10 days. I still sleep easy at night. I liked SPIDER too and give it 9/10.
THE PASSION OF JESUS CHRIST opened in Australia this week. In New Zealand, religious groups have been lobbying the censors to reduce the adults-only rating it received from the NZ Office of Literature Classification. This comes hot on the heels of the same groups slamming KEN PARK and BAISE MOI. In Australia, Mel Gibson's movie received a MA 15+ rating, which equates to a soft US R rating...kids are allowed if accompanied with an adult. Naturally, New Zealand's Christians want more children to see the picture. Would the movie have received general church support if it was made by a non-Christian? Hmmm. By the way - Ban Censorshit.
If I do not post again, my best wishes to you Harlan and Susan. Your influence and emphasis on literacy in this point-and-click, lowest common denomenator, economic irrationalistic world has affected me profoundly. Peace.
Quick Point on Gibson's Film
Apparently a concerned critic advised Gibson to put a disclaimer on the film saying that Pontius Pilate is known to have mercilessly killed thousands of Jews as a historical certainty. Everything else in the Passion Play was made up fifty years later. I'm not sure we know if Caiaphas or Annas ever ordered any execution in their separate reigns. However, the Gospel of John would have us believed that Pontius Pilate is a concerend paternal leader of the people who has to hold back a bloodthirsty mob. This is the opposite of history, and it is the true perversion of the film and the gosepels. Crucifixion was a method of torture and terror that was a Roman weapon against the population of Judea. It was meant to keep the people in line and to teach them to fear the empire. Having a crowd of Jews beg for a crucifixion is insane.
Imagine having a concentration camp commandant come off as more merciful than his victims. That's why everyone is so upset.
Steve Dooner
Accentuate the positive...
ADAM-TROY: Thanks for the remarks to Fred. I thought about typing a message asking "what the fuck?" after I first read "Fred's" last post (especially when I went back --twice!--and couldn't find evidence of his/her being called a "jerk" -- or an asshole, for that matter -- but I didn't want to start another "Diane" incident...hmmm).
CINDY: Lovely to hear your voice as well. I enjoy accents, and three of my favorites are the patrician sound of my (East) Indian, Milwaukee editor's accent (her name is Geeta Sharma-Jensen, and she writes a terrific column each Sunday), the not-so-brogue-ish Scottish accent of a local NPR DJ, Julia Clarke (because it sounds as if her pallette is making love to each syllable; or as if she's actually enjoying the taste of a ripe plum while making announcements and chatter), and the easy-going, honey-tinged lilt of women from Texas.
--DTS
Fred, we hardly knew ye...which is a good thing
Harlan, A little wierd to say the least! I could offer more but I defer to the eloquent response of Adam-Troy Castro. Suffice to say that Xenogenesis marches on...
Deb, I'm with you on Gibson's latest offering. If you get the chance, check out David Denby's review in this week's "New Yorker;" he makes some interesting observations on Gibson's obsession with characters who endure obscene amounts of pain.
A week or so ago, I read a short interview from the Gibson marketing campaign where the director professed that he did not hate the Jews, he loved them and he prayed for them. Prayed for them? Yeah, I know exactly what that means having had my share of evangelical Chrisitans in my philosophy course who feel the need to write to let me know they are praying for my soul because I have sinned for, oh I don't know, not condemning the Greeks for their homosexuality or the like.
David Loftus caught the spelling error in my last post. Apologies. I never meant to make any connection between a great talen and a nontalent.
I know you could knock Todd and *Deb over with a feather, but I'm going to have to agree with them about PASSION. I really have no need to see it; a person doesn't need to experience a brick to the head to know she doesn't like it. I have zero urge to watch an innocent character be tortured for 90 minutes; I have even less desire to see Jewish stereotypes tortured.
Even if the movie isn't anti-Semetic, enough has been said about it to fuel the flames, even by the filmmaker's own father. No thanks, I'll pass on that one.
I also agree with *Deb about the designation "evil" movie. Tossing that word around is a bit hyperbolic. There are cliched movies, poorly written/acted/directed movies, manipulative movies, movies with degrading messages in them, but evil? That's just not quite the right word. And I'd never even consider calling some stupid Hollywood claptrap evil, because it's not important enough; only the movies that pretend to have a message or to be art, but really are crap qualify as loathesome to me.
Movies that I loathe: THE COOK, THE THIEF, HIS WIFE, AND HER LOVER; DAMAGE; ROBOCOP (couldn't even sit through it); TITANIC; stuff like that.
Recent movie that have really pissed me off: COLD MOUNTAIN. It had pretensions of great storytelling and high drama, but it turned out to be a manipulative, cliched joke. I did not buy Nicole Kidman in that role; after that many years working a farm with only one other woman to help her, she looked awfully Hollywood. At least Jude Law was nice to look at.
Harlan:
I'll admit to envy, but not to the eating out of my heart: Doctors say I should consume a balanced diet, so I wouldn't dine without adding some liver and onions, or a fluffly stack of pancreas.
Bad pun, sorry.
In a more personal vein, "The Fly" carries expressions of loss and the pain of transformation, especially for what illness has done to me in my own life. I've felt the sense of aversion in many of those who watched as illness eroded the being I was, felt the desperation to try to turn things back to the way they were, depression and fear coming from not being able to revert myself or cure my disease. Unlike Brundle, I chose to remain and ultimately accept what and who I was. Perhaps the fall from grace, as it were, was meant to raise me back to human.
No, no grand philosophical entendre with a piece of celluloid, more a meeting of empathy with a well crafted character. I hope Mr. Pogue takes a measure of pride for what he'd accomplished, especially considering the hack connotations of the original film.
And, the maggot birthing scene is pure kitsch, a nod to the original sprayed with blood and disgust. I got a good laugh from it.
Sorry, nothing about Fred. I've got to go to work. And my copy of "From These Ashes", the short story collection of Frederic Brown's is finally in. Funny, how the simpler things can often bring the most joy.
M
HARLAN: Yes, and all his little clones, too.
Not to veer off the subject, but does anyone know if Norman Spinrad is a Buddhist? The reason I ask is that a website called American-Buddha.com has five of Spinrad's novels in their entirety available--and since Spinrad is only cited as an inspiration and the site seems to be entirely done by one Charles Carreon, and seems a vanity page, if a huge one. Most of the books "published" on the site are in the public domain, save for Spinrad's, something by Tim Leary, a Loren Eiseley book, and what appears either to be a Bob Sheckley short story or perhaps the entire collection named after that story. A lot of articles from people stretching from Noam Chomsky to The Associated Press to Peter Arnett, and I simply cannot believe that they all cleared copyright permissions.
From what I can tell, the guy seems to believe that these works are okay to post because he cites Fair Use and because he posts a disclaimer which says you cannot make copies of the books he presents.
Smells like thievery to me--and if so, I think this putz should be shut DOWN.
Gee, I don't want to be judgmental, but wasn't that "Fred" guy kinda weird?
Harlan
Chuck,
Damn, I 'm proud to hear that the South doesn't have a corner on the market of dumb ass.
: )
Cindy
On Mel's film...
I haven't seen it. One of y'all, ( it might have been Alex Jay) told me it's not good form to sing the praises of any film too loudly because not everyone will see it the same. That is so true. I respect Deb for knowing when something isn't right for her and avoiding it. I wish I had that much sense. I have to look. When I had my 4th cesarean I made them give me a mirror so I could watch.
I'm always astounded by any Christian who isn't smitten with the Jews. How could anybody not love the Jews? Jesus himself is a Jew-- so is his mother and his grandmother his stepfather, his siblings-- how can they miss that point? My mother used to date a Jewish man named Gene Ravel. He was lovely and charming and funny and brilliant. When I heard for the first time
( from Harlan, when I was 23) that some people were prejudiced against the Jews I asked my mom if she'd heard anything like that before and she said, " Oh, yes. They're all just jealous."
I think she was right about that.
I don't think the film will inspire anyone to hate-- I think those who are that stupid already hate.
Cindy
p.s. Hi Neal.
:)
HELL, Harlan,
I'd enjoy being a fly on the ceiling during your dinner repartee. Unfortunately I'd probably lose my grip and fall into the soup tureen-- laughing. You'd recount some tale like that PRICELESS who's on first Disney exec bit. You'd chase is with something like your FARGO vivisection that had me in actual PAIN-- my God I think I really COULD die of laughter. Your entire schtick from " let it outa the theatre on a leash" to "schvitzed with flea and tick repellent" almost separated my ribs from my sternum... THEN! THEN!!!!.... "SLEEPING IN THE BACKYARD IN A BILLY BARTY-SIZED HOUSE"-- fer the love all all that's HOLY-- I thought I was going to get DOWN but THAT WASN'T ENOUGH!!!!!!! I'M gaspin' , turning blue from anoxia and you KNOCK ME OVER with " it oughtta be on the labels of Alpo--Have You Seen the Lost Brain of This Movie?"
It would be dangerous for me to be a bug on the ceiling during your dinner with the aforementioned group.
:)
Cindy
HEY LYNN!!
I've missed you!
:)
Cindy
Well said, Adam Troy Castro,
I applaud you sir!
Dorman,
Lovely to hear your voice.
:)
Nopers, no picture posted here. That would ruin all the suspense! Some day we'll all meet up in person and you'll see if your idea of me is close.
:)
Cindy
Fred, Continued
Sorry about the second post; accidentally sent the message just as I was about to wrap up.
(continued)
It's a behavior pattern that was very, very visible in your posts, "Fred."
And that's why people reacted the way they did.
I say this without heat. I agree with you about Blake. The case against him saddens me, but if the case against him is proved, nobody here, including Harlan, will argue against his just punishment. But you brought up Blake only to hurl him in the face of our host. You did so out of sheer meanness. You did so out of immaturity and out of spite. And it's my most sincere hope, for your future, that you grow up and find more appropriate outlets to work off your aggressions.
"Fred"
You know, it's probably casting bread upon the void, but every once in a while you find yourself NEEDING to explain the self-evident. Not because you feel the explanation will do any good, but because the explanation is inside you, demanding release.
So.
Fred.
I'm going to explain to you, in the kindest possible way, why people here called you names, and why your actions in this forum were improper and rude.
I happen to be a friend of Harlan Ellison.
I like being able to make that statement, but I don't give it undue weight. That is, I don't call myself a "close" friend of Harlan Ellison, and I hesitate to call myself a "good" friend of Harlan Ellison, because those specific adjectives, when coupled to that specific noun, mean highly specific things, which my friendship with Harlan may not merit. Since we rarely see each other, talk infrequently, don't really hang out in the same circles, come from different generations, and have not shared more than a few confidences -- "close" friend or "good" friend are overstating the case. (Well, I think we're approaching "good". But that's a process.) However, I think it's fair to say that we have reached the point where we can sometimes ask each other sensitive questions.
Like you, I remember reading Harlan's references to his friendship with Robert Blake, and like you, I have felt the occasional impulse to ask him his take on the murder case.
I never did.
And why didn't I?
Because my sense of decorum overrode that impulse. In real terms, it would never occur to me to ask a guy what he thought of murder charges against an old friend of his UNLESS I was talking to somebody so close to me that I had the right to ask him to pour out his heart. It's a painful question. A personal question. A question for reporters, who must be nosy...and confrontational people who merely want to be.
And the intrusiveness of your question was not all of it. There was also the tone of it: the way it came off as a challenge, clearly meant to incite. Whether this was your intent or not, you came off as a guy who marched into another person's living room and asked about the most painful thing he could imagine, in the most painful manner he could devise.
I've got to tell you, when I saw that question, I winced. I expected Harlan to explode.
Instead, he did the worst thing he could have done to you: he gave you a calm, polite, and honest answer, showing no irritation at all, giving you no real ammunition to work with.
It's unsurprising to me that somebody other than Harlan was moved to express his opinion of your rudeness, and that once this occurred you responded with an even more explicitly confrontational post, not targeted at the person who called you names, but at Harlan himself, even though he hadn't written it. I wasn't even surprised that you included a LAST DANGEROUS VISIONS slur. Why? Because nobody here believes for one second that you're really in high moral dudgeon over Robert Blake. You're here for the same reason the yahoo who posted a bunch of insulting notes a few days ago was here -- because your whole purpose was to duck in, toss a stick of dynamite, and dart away, feeding your ego with the size of the shock waves you caused.
You remind me a little of the trolls who frequent the message boards for the movie site AIN'T-IT-COOL-NEWS. Whatever you think of that site, and I recognize there are people who hate it, nothing Harry Knowles writes about merits the flurry of folks who respond to everything he says by hurling abuse on him for being fat. Those people act the way they do because it gives them a sense of power: it provides a little emotional orgasm that serves them in place of any real accomplishment. Those people are also, for the most part, borderline literates who infuriate not because they draw blood but because everything they say is facile and self-serving and cheap. Many of them seem poorly socialized (and if their prose is any indication, poorly educated as well); if they have any hope at all it's that they may also be very young and therefore possessed of sufficient future chances to get a clue.
More Cinematic Evil
Saw the titles in Variety. All are real
Well, I don't know if these upcoming films are "evil" or not, but one or two may be candidates:
DINO CROC
A genetic experiment goes TERRIBLY WRONG. A CGI lizard eats a lot of people. There you have it.
A LOT OF LORD OF THE RINGS RIP-OFFS (I don't remember all the titles)
As if this were a surprise.
And last, but not least:
Troma Studios Presents - TALES FROM THE CRAPPER
'nuff said. May not be evil, but I do love the title.
I don't know if PASSION OF CHRIST inspired this, but the timing sure is suspect. The Denver Lovingway Church put on it's marquee this loving message: "The Jews Killed Christ". I guess when a Church has "Loving" and "Way" in it's name, it's kind of like a country that has "People's Democratic Republic" in it's name. None of the Above.
Of course, there was such a stink the "Lovingway" people changed the marquee.
I don't think the movie made them do it. I do think people like them are not going to pass up an opportunity to exploit the publicity, though.
Chuck
Yes, I am using my one post of the day to defend my beautiful wife, Debbie, so sue me. Chivalry ain’t dead.
Sheryl, you have named yourself appropriately in your email address (not that you’re vicious or anything, but, the rest fits). Yes, yes, yes it’s always cute to toss out the INFORMED opinion line on this board because we have all repeated it ad nauseum, and Harlan is a big proponent of “You are not entitled to your opinion, you are entitled to your INFORMED opinion.” But, honey, refusing to see this movie does not mean the beautiful one’s opinion is not informed.
Far from it. There is more than enough information about this movie to settle on an informed opinion on it. There is far more than simply the opinion of a rabbi and a minister who have been cursing and hailing the movie for months now, sight unseen. There are magazine articles and radio shows and television discussions and so many fucking reviews (check out rottentomatoes.com for dozens of reviews from the most respected critics to lamos on the internet). There is also a little thing called the muthufucking bible which sort of gives away the ending to this movie. Then again, my informed opinion, as well as Debbie’s informed opinion, is that this movie is ALL ending with a few flashbacks to remind you that Jesus just may have been someone who wasn’t just a bleeding pussball for 90 fucking minutes of dreariness.
You don’t need to see this movie to have an informed opinion on it if you have read many many articles and heard many many discussions. Debbie’s opinion is justified and informed for why she has no plans on seeing it. Me? I’m not seeing it because it just looks so goddamn boring. Ninety minutes of flesh rending torture is far worse than the silly little Friday The Thirteenth movies….at least that violence is not trying to force any epiphanies on you other than stop-fucking-when-you-hear-heavy-breathing-outside-the-tent. A couple of weeks ago I posted that I was initially intrigued by Gibson’s original concept of making this movie without subtitles; an experiment in telling a cinematic story with emotion and pictures, as very few could understand the words. As soon as he caved in to the studios and agreed to add subtitles, I was gone. Then he waffled on the Jewish High Priest line that condemns the Jews for condemning Jesus by first removing and then replacing it unsubtitled (see, I know all this shit WITHOUT seeing the movie)…..but now that I have read tons of reviews on this movie I know that there is more to the typical Jews Killed Jesus bible passages than just the removal of that line…..even to the point of presenting the Jews as hooknosed and Pilate as someone who was basically indecisive without those rotten hebes (a clan of which I belong, but Debbie is Catholic).
So, my informed opinion is that now that the cinematic experiment is ruined with subtitles, my slight interest has waned. And now that I know, and Debbie knows, that the story that is in the bible is told in the movie, then we know that there is more than passing inference to the Jews’ blame in the death of the King of Carpenters.
We don’t need to submit to two hours of what we expect to be dreariness just so that we can prance around and use the word INFORMED when we are already informed. If Debbie had criticized the movie’s direction or cinematography or acting without having seen it, then that would not be an informed opinion.
Your Huck Finn comparison is a bunch of smartass claptrap. Debbie simply identified a movie as EVIL the same way everyone else here was leaving lists of such movies, but she at least took the time to state why she felt it was evil and why she felt this way without even having seen it.
Let’s try not to get so smug over the “informed opinion” line all the time. Informed means “having much information”, and anyone who doesn’t have much information about this movie these past two weeks has been locked in a cabin. Opinion means “a belief not based on absolute certainty or positive knowledge but on what seems true, valid, or probable to one’s own mind;judgement.” Debbie has been informed by seeing, hearing and reading about this movie. Debbie has an opinion based on this information. Debbie is not telling anyone to ban the Bible or ban the movie, she is just labeling it as a movie that will incite age old prejudices in those so inclined….and a movie that she feels is far more ‘evil’ than Cronenberg’s masterful “The Fly”.
Ciao. -TODD
>Why must we see all the gorey details?<
It's also very debatable on how accurate these details are. It's true that the Romans used a flogging whip that often had bits of broken glass in it. However (and I have not seen the film, only stills and reviews), I've heard that the dramatized scourging in this movie was extreme to the point that it's doubtful anyone would have survived it, or at least not been able to maintain consciousness.
What is historical fact is that Jesus was tried with two other men that day, all on unrelated sedition charges, in what most historians agree were short, perfunctory "trials" before a heavily-scheduled Pilate, who was in Jerusalem that weekend for Passover. The image of a large crowd screaming in an arena is dramatic, but unlikely--some scholars argue that Pilate may never have even seen Jesus, but just approved the petition for execution.
Whether or not the Roman guard had the time or inclination to spend hours flaying yet another local troublemaker before sending him off the to the cross is open to debate. More likely he was given the routine thrashing to break down his potential physical resistance, marched off with the others with his crossbeam to the execution hill (where the poles were already in place), and nailed up before lunch.
DEPARTMENT OF EAT YOUR HEART OUT DEPT.
Let me tell you how MMMMMMMMMUCH I love the Cronenberg remake of "The Fly" (the original version of which I never thought amounted to much): as I type these words, the doorbell as just rung. Susan and I are having dinner here tonight with not only my pal Neil Gaiman, but the author of the brilliant screenplay for "The Fly," Mr. Charles Edward Pogue, and his lovely wife, Julieanne.
Whaddaya think, is THAT a dinner table of conversation you'd kill to be at?
Smugly, and synchronicitly, yr. pal,
Harlan
SALO: I think Frank is right (did I type that?) I don't know what to make of Salo. It was grueling to watch. When I read up to figure out what the point was and that Pasolini wanted to leave a testimony about "pure evil" behind, I could only think there must have been a better way. Who would want to spend 6 months of their life feeling something like Salo? Who would want their name attached to this thing for all time? On the other hand, one must always understand context and we are talking about Pasolini. Only if you know nothing about the man and his work could you possibly think the film was created with the intention of being "evil" or sick or hateful. Intention may not be relevant - the film might be all those things anyway but clearly Pasolini had what he felt a laudable goal in mind when making it. Was this a useful way to depict the atrocities of the fascists or was it simply an atrocity itself?
But a discussin of Salo leads into a timely mention of a film that couldn't possibly be any more different... The Gospel According to St. Matthew. Has one filmmaker ever made two such stunningly different films? With all due respect to Marty's most excellent _Last Temptation_, Gospel is easily the best film ever made about Jesus or indeed any other Biblical character. It is beautiful, quietly eloquent and deeply moving. If there was a movie that could "recruit" me to the faith, it would be this one.
FALLING DOWN: I think Rich mentioned this as an "evil" film. It's simply too inept to be evil. I rate this #1 on my list of "funniest unintentionally funny movies." It's so painfully wrongheaded from the conceptual level down to the detail of the mise-en-scene, it defies description. If ever there was a film that deserved to be screened on MST3K, this is it. It's hard to get angry about it - it's very easy to laugh at it. In a way, I suppose I enjoy the film immensely. Did someone actually write and then direct the Frederic Forrest scene and think it was gritty, edgy or could, in any way, be taken seriously? And has there ever a better "howl out loud" moment than the piece-de-resistance shot of the water pistol squirting helplessly just before "De-fens" falls off the pier. Falling Down is a stinker for the ages and it deserves a kind of respect for the purity of its awfulness.
If you haven't.....
Unlurking....
Deb, if you haven't seen the film , then you clearly DON'T have an informed opinion; and it seems that you don't intend to acquire one, just to sit in judgement. And I think that's unworthy in this venue.
The fact that a particularly vociferous bunch of people who hadn't seen the movie were jumping up and down about what it supposedly portrayed and how they didn't like that is how this all got blown up in the first place.
I don't know how the movie portrays anything--all I know is what people on both sides of the issue are claiming it portrays, and thus far everyone I've heard commenting it has had a very old, old dog in this ongoing fight. It's therefore incumbent on anyone who wants to comment on this particular round to have firsthand experience with the material in question.
Your statement shows exactly the same kind of unreasoned preconcieved judgement you're alleging this film will inculcate in those who view it. You're like the woman who tried to keep my high school English class from reading Huck Finn 25 years ago--she hadn't read it, but she just KNEW it was a terrible book from what she heard from her neighbor. My teacher sent her home to read it, with the comment that she wasn't going to have a battle of wits with an unarmed person.
Myself, I'm starting to think this is whole controversy is a great litmus test for prejudice in both sides. People who automatically defend it just because some minister somewhere tagged Gibson "a believer" are just as bad as those who automatically attack it because some rabbi somewhere else threw the word "anti-semitic" in front of a reporter like a piece of raw meat. People who see it with either preconception are only going to SEE that preconception. And it's possible that both sides are totally, completely, utterly wrong about it anyway. It's entirely possible that there's something else altogether at the in this thing that only an open mind will be able to see.
In any case, I suggest that you see for yourself, rather than listening to talking heads, and reporters who are only interested in plumping their ratings during February sweeps.
Now that's what I call writin'!!
"Alert and tense, [the boys] smoked endlessly and spat constantly as they sought for the opportunity to begin slugging." Hook me up, Slobo!!
I just got a book in the mail that I'm afraid to read. It's the notoriously harsh and lurid "The Amboy Dukes," by Irving Shulman. This underground classic has sold millions of copies in spite of efforts to suppress it. Can't get any info on the author though. Let me know if you have anything on him. Harlan's book about joining a gang was mild in my opinion, possibly at the insistance of his editors. When will I start the read? As soon as I shut down my computer.
My turn
Don't like being called a jerk and a creepby someone who is probably both those things himself. Sounds like one. I know all about the whole "innocent until proven guilty" concept, Mr. Elliosn, believe it or not. That's why I said IF Robert Blake is guilty, instead of saying YES he IS guilty.I saw you on TOMSNYDER years ago discussing O.J>SIMPson who was still on trial and you were laughing at the whole concept of innocent until proven guilty. You said something like, "Don't tell me he's innocent until proven guilty! Look at all the evidence! Don't give ME any of that bullshit!" If you don't remember saying this I can send you a tape. Changed your mind about innocent until proven guilty since then, huh? Don't want to keep you too long. I know you need every spare moment to finish up THE LAST DELUSIONAL VISIONS<, or whatever it's called.Bye. Made my point. Won't be posting again, ever. Bigger fish to fry. Have fun at Ellison Blunderland. Love and kisses.
It's okay everybody. I truly expected to be in the minority in my opinion of Cronenberg's "The Fly." As for it being the greatest horror movie ever made. . . Well, for sheer horror, I'll take "The Island of Lost Souls" or "Freaks" over that film any day.
I should add that having watched my own mother waste away with colon cancer, I never once felt any value, wisdom or comfort in seeing Jeff Goldblum observe his own genitalia fall off, nor did his frantic attempts find a way to reverse the process remind me especially of the multitude of toxins and chemo that I saw dripping in my mother's hospital room.
Just to head some of the predictable responses off at the pass. Here are some metaphors I will never accept from Cronenberg's "The Fly."
I will never accept that Geena Davis giving birth to a maggot as artistic representation of a woman's unspoken anxiety at giving birth to a creature that is wholly other.
I will never see the compulsive drives of the Goldblum bug creature as a metaphor for the human Id.
I will never see Jeff Goldblum's consumption by the Fly personality as a metaphor for Alzheimers.
I will never see the fly creatures vomiting gastric acid on his friend as a metaphor for how terminally sick people can take out their frustrations on innocent people.
I am afraid I will never admire "the-bug-monster-mating-with-human-woman" scene as an evocation of the weird otherness of in human relations.
Read Collette's "The Hand!" Read Poe's "Ligeia!" Read Kafka's "The Metamorphosis!" See Bob Fosse's "All that Jazz!" See Beckett's "Endgame!" I don't know. I'm sorry. I just don't like that movie.
Steve Dooner
Don't want to get into a debate, but I think Salo uses evil to represent the debasement of life. You either can stomach that world or not. Personally, I think it is subversive art.
-----------------
8mm, you all forgot about this little ditty. What a sick piece of trash this was. Nick Cage needs a better agent.
When he cries at the end, I felt a sense of relief. At least there was one moment in that film, where I felt like the dungeon was opened, and I could begin to see some aspect of sunlight again. But fake morality is worse than obvious immorality.
Lennie Bruce
I'll tell you what I want to see. Lennie Bruce was a genius who apparently knew Harlan, yet we have little input from Harlan about what he was like. I now turn the mike over to Harlan and request a few chosen words.
***This must have come up in this discussion before, but I'm not backtracking to find out.
***I think you guys need to look up the word EVIL. You want to talk about an evil movie--how about Mel's? What is point I want to know? The story has been done. Why must we see all the gorey details? He outright blames the jews for the death of Jesus. Now I have not seen the movie--nor do I intend too. But the media has made such a big fucking deal out of it I already know all I need to. Plus Mel's ass of a father suddenly comes out of the woodwork to stir it all up more. Do we really need more anger and hate in this country? People out here bought tickets before the film even opened--because of the media. Mel is one happy man--he did what he wanted--sucked up cash at any cost. The movie is his passion and love...bullshit. I used to like Mel, now I gotta hate him.
Ellen and Wendy, sitting in a tree, K-I-S-S-I-N-G...
All right, it's pretty much common knowledge now that George W. Bush and his cronies aren't cozying up to the idea of same-sex marriages. I try to see both sides of the fence as much as I can in debates as convoluted as this one, but this time the mindset at work here is utterly impossible for me to fathom. Homosexuality and lesbianism have been around for...what, several thousand years or so? One would think allowing official law-approved marriage into the picture would be kind of insignificant in retrospect, but I guess the human race works in mysterious ways.
This 'n' That
Jeff,
I wouldn't get too excited. I'm a newbie here, myself. :{)
QUIET, PLEASE is a terrific program, overall. I bought numerous tapes from RadioSpirits a few years back, and was never disappointed in the quality or service. I also recommend ESCAPE, SUSPENSE and LIGHTS OUT.
Great news about the Val Lewton DVD releases. They're overdue.
I see where Hollywood is about to drag out the old Philosopher's-Stone-in-reverse again, to remake HOUSE OF WAX. This time around, it'll be a bunch of teenagers vs a bunch of serial killers who just happen to get their jollies out of covering their victims in wax. Oh, frabjous day. Another case of turning gold into base metals, making a sow's ear out of a silk purse, all stuff like that there. From the press releases I've seen, I can't tell if the manufacturers of this celluloid cow pie even realize HOUSE OF WAX was a remake. This will undoubtedly wind up on my evil movie list.
I've got to come down on the fans of Cronenberg's FLY. The original has its moments, but overall doesn't really satisfy me. The remake works because of the gradual transition, the anger and fear Goldblum showed during the transformation. My mother in law passed away a couple of years ago after a very long illness, and yes, it was something like that.
The movie I mentioned yesterday, THE BLACK STORK, is one not many are aware of, but I'll rank it way beyond anything else for evil. It was made in 1917 by a eugenicist doctor who was his era's Kevorkian, as regards to imperfect babies. He advocated withholding life saving surgery for the newborn, lest the poor things grow up getting teased so badly they turn into psychopathic murderers. I'm not talking abortion, or acephalic babies with no chance of survival. These were birth defects correctable by the medicine of the day, defects many productive adults have been born with since and continue to be born with. Things like hydrocephaly or spina bifida or cleft palate were sufficient to warrant death to this guy.
I work with folks who are blind or have other disabilities, so I'm a little sensitive on this subject. Many of my students are remarkably talented and capable in a variety of areas, some that non-disabled folks find difficult. It would have been a shame and a loss had their neo-natal doctors been devotees of the subject of THE BLACK STORK.
As for BIRTH OF A NATION, well, let's just glorify an evil organization that was virtually extinct by 1915, and inspire a few hundred thousand racist pinheads to resurrect the KKK! A brilliant plan! A strange legacy for the director of INTOLERANCE.
"QUIET" THOUGHTS
Harlan: How is Julius SChwartz's family doing? Is there anything fans can do to help, whatever it might be? ALSO: QUIET,PLEASE, should you not already know it, is available on tape and cd from Radio Spirits, which probably has a website you can check for further info. ALSO: I was very happy, Harlan, with how you handled that creep who sent you the post about Robert Blake. He sounded like he was trying to get you angry, and your gentlemanly, respectful, quiet response has, I hope, mad him feel like the jerk he is. How DO you put up with these guys, Harlan? I'll end for today with the good news that this year should see the release of some, if not all, of the Val Lewton masterpieces of quiet terror on dvd for the first time, at long, long last. Best tou you, Mrs. Ellison, and Harlanholics everywhere. Until next time...
Harlan,
Just wondering when I should be working, but have you ever met or worked with William Goldman?
And for those needing a quick introduction to the man: http://www.wga.org/craft/interviews/goldman/goldmanlong.html
A few of my favorite things
Robert Morales--What a fun fine film. You may know Charles Finney (of Tucson AZ) wrote the wonderful novel that the movie was based upon.
Which brings up one of my favorite literary coincidences: Two Finneys Jack and Charles both wrote some of the most magical stories ever...
...and then there is Albert Finney, speaking of whom, did anyone here ever see "Under the Volcano"? If so did it do justice to the Lowry novel?
worst film: Hollow Man...Kevin Bacon's bare butt made it all the worse.
Mortified,
Neal
DUFF
I hope it isn't rude to mention in this venue that fandom's Down Under Fan Fund will have three candidates this year -- Norman Cates, Danny Heap, Erika Lacey. Their platforms and a downloadable ballot will soon be found at www.DUFF2004.com. Please vote!
There -- if such a commercial is beyond the bounds of Harlan's site, I apologize.
Speaking of Harlan, I was putting together a photo piece about the 1970 Nebula Awards last night, which will feature a slew of photos of Ellison. I'll let the site know when I have the zine finished.
Add to the list of egregiously awful movies: LOOKING FOR MR. GOODBAR.
Frank Church: if you can find me a copy of the theme song from LAIR OF THE WHITE WORM ("The D'Ampton Worm" performed by Emilio Peres Machado & Stephen Powys)I'll be your friend forever and send you neat local souvenirs from Rochester NY (home of some fairly impressive barbecue sauce).
To Steve Dooner, re _The Fly_: Couldn't disagree with you more. The original was just garbage, but David Cronenberg and Charles Edward Pogue turned it into one of the few horror films with genuine emotion. As someone else said, it's like watching a loved one sicken and die. We care about these characters even as one of them turns into a monster, and we're horrified far _beyond_ the usual shocks of horror cinema when things turn for the worse. Frankly, I think it's the greatest horror film ever made.
Gretings back at ya, Faisal. Give our best to Fidel! Viva revolucion!
Re _Manhattan_. John Simon did a piece on this film where he castigated it for a kind of moral emptiness, and how it played upthe worst aspects of Woody Allen's self-centeredness. I _liked_ the film, but Simon was right about severel things, and I'd recommend the article if you can find it. (Try his collection _Reverse Angle_.)
Re Jeff Bridges: Always liked him. Never disappointed. _Tucker_ is absolutely wonderful, and if you can get the soundtrack album by Joe Jackson, ye shall not be disappointede.
Evil Films Continued
Most folks in this forum are already following this advice, but please, if this discussion continues, don't just give us a shopping list of titles; it does little good to mention something less than obvious, like MANHATTAN, and let it hang there, without explaining at least briefly why you would burden it with the adjective in question. (With some of the violent films, it's at least obvious to guess, even for those who don't agree; for instance, I happen to like Cronenberg's FLY (though not as much as I like FARGO (nudge, nudge)), and though my judgment takes me elsewhere, I at least have an idea why it would strike somebody that way. But other choices need to be defended for clarity.)
I also believe that there's a difference between merely repugnant films and those which are less stories than pathologies.
Case in point: PROBLEM CHILD, with John Ritter. Ostensibly a kid's film, about a family that adopts a much-abandoned kid whose behavior goes well beyond the endearingly mischievous into the realm of the psychopathic. The kid gets off on acts of destruction and cruelty. In the course of the film, the mother is driven off and the grandfather's business is destroyed, and in both cases they are depicted as folks who deserved what happened to them, anyway. Ritter ultimately decides he wants to keep the kid, but does not modulate his behavior one iota; there's a sequel, glimpsed on cable, in which he smiles proudly as the kid destroys more lives. In any event, it emerges as a portrait of a world seen by a juvenile sociopath, as any adult who tries to control the kid's impulses at all is painted as a villain, and only those who let him do whatever he wants are worthy of his love.
The original screenplay, by the guys who wrote ED WOOD, THE PEOPLE VS. LARRY FLYNT, and others (and who have shown sufficient smarts in such vehicles that I no longer blame them for this one), is reputed to be a very nightmarish black comedy based on a real case. The money folks behind the film saw it as as kid's fodder. As a result, the film is pitched at small kids and paced like pornography, in that there's a money moment every ten minutes or so, involving some new horrific act on the part of the kid, in which the kids in the audience are supposed to take vicarious pleasure.
Truly evil, in its impact, and in the mindset it rewards in its intended audience.
On another note: yeah, Jeff Bridges is terrific, and he was great in AMERICAN HEART, and Lebowski rules.
Don't fret, M - Robert John M c'est moi. Harlan and I had our usual amicable chat.
Tucker is a terrific Jeff Bridges vehicle - it's his most dazzling and subtle performance - as are Cutter's Way and Fearless. Film critic David Thomson rightly sees Bridges as a successor to Robert Mitchum.
As for Cronenberg's The Fly - anyone who's ever had to suffer through the illness of a loved one will see it as the heartfelt tragedy it is. It's amazing what you get used to.
Btw, I finally caught up with The 7 Faces of Dr. Lao (1964) this morning - what a wonderful movie!
Barry responds to Kneel -
>Barry D.
Sir,
-->>...if we're as smart as we think we are...Somewhere in this Dining Pavilion I've made it pretty clear that I'm not much on the brainy side....I think I did.The other thing I am not, is rude.I was merely engaging another webderlander in conversation, Barry. But you have seen fit to upset my dining experience.I was under the (perhaps misguided) impression that civility was the order of the day in this place.And, for the record, my favorite Harlan Ellison story is "One Life, Furnished in Early Poverty". That's not so interesting in itself. But the "why?", now THAT is so compelling as to be completely and utterly absorbing.<
Do tell.
Attentively yours,
- Barry
re: TiVo
I have had a replayTV system (TiVo's lesser-known cousin) since shortly after they came out. It is way better than a VCR if only because you don't have to worry about cueing up the tape. We have a houseful of tapes that have 1.5 hours of programming on them, because we never labelled them and didn't have time to scan through to find the end before the next program we were going to tape. Plus, we never ended up watching most of it, again because of our complete inability to keep up with the labelling--replayTV does it all for you. It is a most precious gift...yea, more precious than the gift of life, itself...
re: TV shows
I have recently become addicted to watching old tv series on dvd, and am currently plowing through the Avengers and Danger Man. Highly recommended--John Drake is the original covert operative of which James Bond is only a callow, oversexed shadow.
Patrick McGoohan rocks.
Evil Film: Cronenberg's "The Fly"
No film struck me as more despicable than David Cronenberg's "The Fly." I liked the Sidney Sheldon and Al/David Hedison original as a cautionary tale and as great fifties kitsch. But I gave up on Cronenberg's film when Geena Davis gave birth to a maggot--this scene failed to fill me with pity and fear or abject horror, but instead, it revulsed me as just ome of many gratuitous scenes of pure exploitation in the movie. I also found the "vomiting-acid-on-victims-in-order-to-devour-them" scene contemptible.
The movie could have been Kafka-esque and fun. Instead, it was filled with endless moments that will never-ever apply to my life, nor will it teach me anything worthwhile about the slimy underpinnings of human nature.
It's interesting that George Romero's endless ketchup and chicken-eating zombies never seemed as exploitative or as disgusting as that film.
It's just not my cup of darjeeling,
Steve Dooner
Movie Mumbo Jumbo
Chris:
Hey, I too admire Jeff Bridges' acting--some adversary I am. Thought he was marvelous in "American Heart," "The Fabulous Baker Boys," and "Rancho Deluxe," among many other fine roles. (And I'm a sucker for "Starman," no matter what anyone reasonable says.) It embarrasses me that I have not so much as rented "Tucker," which I've heard is plenty worthwhile viewing.
-------
EVIL MOVIES
I'll throw in "Strange Days," the second half of a voyeurism-cheapens-the-soul double bill with "Body Double."
And "Fatal Attraction."
D.
Greetings from Cuba. Currently back teaching film editing at the EICTV just outside San Antonio. Now have the use of a car so have done some exploring outside the campus compound.
Next stop - North Korea!
(Apparently, they make great monster movies there).
FAQ
Just Asking
"Meanwhile my assistant Iris, who's 12 years old..."
How old is the receptionist? ;)
*
Anyway, I taught middle school for 6 years (grade 6-8). It astounded me how dialed in girls this age were to relationships (in general) between guys and dolls. Is it something in the food? All the exposure to Brittney, television and movies? Regardless, I took copious notes.
Huh, Wha? Whuzzzat?
I know, one a day, but I've got to set things out in my mind out of fear to be mistaken and making an ass of myself, which in my case is often something much easier done than said.
Harlan:
The Robert John M. post has left me wondering who you're referring to. I don't believe it is me, but I'd scanned back a few pages, and can't find anyone's name that's corresponding. Please scratch the mental itch, so I can take my one day penalty in hybris.
Redfaced pre-emptively, M
Robert Morales: I am shocked, shocked I tell you, that you live in this little berg and yet condemn Woody Allen’s “Manhattan” as evil. I mean, aren’t we talking the movie that the esteemed film critic Andrew Sarris called “the only work of cinematic genius ever to emerge from the seventies?” The best film ever about the propensity of New Yorkers to screw themselves out of happiness so that they can fully embrace their bullshit neuroses? Diane Keaton’s most perfect dead-nuts-on performance, ever? The most accurate movie ever made about the impossibility of finding true happiness with someone who has their head firmly and irretrievably up their ass? That one?
Say it ain’t so, homes.
I will, however, stand you to a Guinness over our mutual distaste for that forking peeza shit “Saving Private Ryan”, may it’s name be spat out with distaste forever. Phooey!
(But I liked “Zardoz”, especially the DVD commentary track wherein the director himself advises viewers where to fast forward to avoid the boring parts).
Mark
who today learned that taking a lady to see “The Passion of The Christ” will NOT get you laid.
This post is for you Harlan:
The new receptionist downstairs is definately a hot number, she smolders. I'm working upstairs her first two months and I haven't spoken to her. On my way out one day I said, "Hi Ida." And she goes "OhooOOooh!" Translation: "So you want to fuck me do you?" We understood each other perfectly.
Meanwhile my assistant Iris, who's 12 years old, hears everything they're saying about me when I'm not there. One day I walked in and she says "Those guys (my coworkers) are jealous of you!" I thought that was pretty funny too.
various and sundry
My gosh, there's been a lot of traffic -- and a lot of interesting topics -- on the board of late. I'd love to contribute to some of the threads (Coens, underrated actors, evil films, etc., etc.) but I just don't have the time at this point.
Lynn:
You talking about the Comic Con in Seattle this weekend? No, I won't be there, but my new good buddies Rob Cannon and Marc Rose, the creators of "Dry Smoke and Whispers," intend to be. They'll be trying to peddle their concept to comic book publishers and animators, although we're forging ahead with recording new episodes for XM Satellite Radio and various public radio stations. (I'm part of the stable of voice talent for the show.) Some of you may remember that Harlan plugged their show in its infancy in Florida, back in the early 1980s, and got episodes aired subsequently on KPFK in LA.
Mark Walsh:
The creator of the films you execrated (and I liked 'em, just like I liked "American Beauty" and "Fargo"), is Spike Jonze, former music video director, as opposed to Spike Jones, the 1940s and 1950s slapstick bandleader, (or Spike Lee, the black film director).
ROBERT JOHN M:
Call me.
he
FRED:
It has been decades since I hung with Bobby, so I must perforce put " and " marks around the word friend(I consider myself HIS friend, but there haven't been many occasions in the last ten years or so when I've been called on to demonstrate even the smallest gesture of fealty, so I have no idea if Bobby is still MY friend); and I haven't the vaguest idea if he did it or not. All I know is I >hope< he's innocent; but at the moment I'm no more informed than you; and my opinion is as valueless as yours, or anyone else's. But as I understand it, unless someone's been feeding me capricious theory ... he's pure innocent until proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. And as he hasn't even gone to trial yet ...
Respectfully, Harlan Ellison
Evil:
Manhattan; AI: Artificial Intelligence; Barton Fink; Rambo: First Blood, Part II; The Deer Hunter; The Color Purple; Shampoo; Cape Fear (the remake); Blow Out; Snakeyes; Robocop; American Beauty; As Good As It Gets; Starship Troopers; anything by Quenton Tarantino ... oh, and Saving Private Ryan.
I _like_ Fargo and Body Double (and Femme Fatale, while I'm at it), sue me.
Fred: Innocent until proven guilty.
EVIL!
The List of Evil Films:
MANOS, THE HANDS OF FATE
Watching this film usually causes the audience to want to shower afterwards with lysol. Every frame looks like the opening of a snuff film.
CAT IN THE HAT
Proof, if it were needed, that Hollywood has no sense of shame or respect for anyone or anything. One more rape of the work of Dr. Seuss.
THE GRINCH
See CAT IN THE HAT.
PEARL HARBOR
"History" film for mentally backward box turtles.
CONAN THE BARBARIAN
Or any non-Teddy Roosevelt film written or directed by John Milius. Enough Nietzsche, already. We GET it.
FRIDAY THE THIRTEENTH
Yep, just what I want to see. Dumbass teenagers being chopped up by some psychotic Paul Prudhomme. Not to mention how the audience is ecouraged to side with the insane killer. Started the whole NATURE TRAIL TO HELL IN 3-D slasher fad.
That's enough evil for one day.
Lynn:
Nice to see you're still kicking. How's the job? You like what you're doing?
Jeff:
PLAN 9 is certainly bad, but it's never boring. The worst thing a film can do, besides making them puke, is bore them. As for SHOWGIRLS, I think the words of the late Gene Siskel put it best: "If this film included the lost footage from THE MAGNIFICENT AMBERSONS, it would still suck."
Chuck
Haven't seen Risky Business in close to 20 years. I remember it as somewhat cynical in an early Reagan era way. But evil?
On another note, I'm reminded of Pauline Kael's remark that you might think Zardoz (I think it was Zardoz) a masterpiece if you didn't speak English. Same goes for Boorman's insane but wonderful Exorcist sequel. At least it's an improvement on the noxious original.
Don't Do the Crime If You Can't Do the Time
Mr. Ellison, I'm curious> Your friend Robert Blake - In your opinion, guilty or innocent? How does it feel to have a friend who might be capable of doing such a thing? If it's true that he thought the best thing he could do for his little daughter was to blow her mother's head off, what is going on in his head? Comments, anyone?
The #1 Most Evil Film of All Time: MEET THE PARENTS, starring Ben Stiller and Robert de Niro. Never since NIGHT AND FOG has there been a more chilling cinematic portrayal of Man's Inhumanity to Man. The fact that it attempts to conceal it's hateful message under the guise of a 'comedy' makes it all the more insidious.
VALIDATION AT LAST!!!!
Mark Orr: THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU!!! And I promise I'll never post twice in the sam day again, but this time i simply couldn't resist. You made me so happy... I feel like a true Harlanian...
Movies: the Good, the Bad, and the Ugly
Jeff, I agree with your good and bad lists, but only half the stock in Blockbusters?!?!? :{) You must live in a particularly blessed quadrant of the universe to enjoy that high a quantity of quality. Our local Blockbuster is in such serious violation of Sturgeon's Law that were said law a municipal statute, they'd spend all day every day in court defending themselves.
I only vaguely recall CORONET BLUE. It came and went too fast to allow me to get much of an impression of it, or maybe I was too young. I remember THE FUGITIVE & THE INVADERS fondly, but there was way more crappy TV in them thar halcyon days of yore than good stuff. Not unlike today. :{)
Films, Good, Evil and Otherwise
GOOD: KISS ME DEADLY, ED WOOD, DETOUR, FRANKENSTEIN, among many others. BAD: SHOWGIRLS, PLAN 9 FROM OUTER SPACE,any odd-numbered STAR TREK movie, some even-numbered STAR TREK movies, about half the stock in the average Blockbuster Video store, and, well, I'm sure you can come up Any with thousands of examples on your own. But what about TV shows?Any contenders come to mind? Anyone out there in computerland remember CORONET BLUE? What about the original FUGITVE< the very underrated INVADERS, and the unbelievably overrated STAR TREK garbage? Comments, Harlan, and all the Harlanites out there? I'm determined to get one of you to acknowledge my existence on this site one day ... I'm sure you're all very nice people, but, perhaps without even realizing it, you can be a little cliquish. One gets a bit discouraged about constantly feeling like the new kid in high school, if you know what I mean?
***Man I can't stand it when people label a film " mean " or " mean spirited ". It makes me wanna scream.
***But anywho--our own Todd Cassel himself will be up on the big screen at the Phoenix Film Festival this year. His nephew wrote and directed this short film and Todd has the starring role. It's called, " A Helping Bag ".
***Also recently read Shane Shallenberger's follow-up piece about his ordeal involving the car fender-bender with Harlan. Even though it didn't end up in Shane's favor, it was pretty darn great of Harlan to fly out here to help. And Susan got a nice piece of jewelry out of the experience I hear. Wish we knew of the visit so we could have maybe forced another dinner out of you guys!
Just checking in.
Just a quick note to check in with you guys and let you know I'm still alive. I've just been ::GASP:: working. Y'know, actual work. The kind they pay me for.
I know, I know, it's an astounding concept. Sometimes I even amaze myself.
I did want to let you know that I've gotten a firm conviction from my husband that we're going to go to Comic Con this year. All four days worth, so if you're gonna be there, please let us know so we can hook up and have dinner or something.
Take it easy, folks,
L.
Look, I apologize for the multi-=postings. The earlier two were drafts, and my habit is to hit the Tab key to indent a paragraph... which sends the "active" thing to the Post button. I'm very sorry, gang.
I must ask for clarification on one of the films on Harlan's list of Evil Films: _Contact_. The other films were undeniably rotten in one way or another, especially _The Green Berets_. (_Salo_ deserves some kind of respect for being as _intentionally_ evil as it was.)
But _Contact_? I'm surprised. It's pretty good for the first couple of hours, with a fairly decent depiction of a First Contact possibility. And I liked the fact that the film made a fairly strong statement against religious fanaticism.
But the ending is just dreadful. It's not that so much of it relies on a retread of Kubrick's Stargate. It's the idea that aliens will contact us merely to enable Jodie Foster's character to resolve her paternal relationships, is pretty cheap sentiment. Was it this aspect of the film that earned it Harlan's judgement of "evil?" That the movie winds up substituting aliens for the cartoon notions of God it thrashes against earlier on?
Re Harlan's list of Evil Films:
RISKY BUSINESS
I can see this. Pretty much amoral.
THE GREEN BERETS
Absolutely no argument here.
SALO, or, THE 120 DAYS OF SODOM
Definitely evil, and certainly intended that way. One could argue that it's a film _about_ evil as well.
BODY DOUBLE
the subtext of BEVERLY HILLS COP (though I like the film)
Re Harlan's list of Evil Films:
RISKY BUSINESS
CONTACT
THE GREEN BERETS
SALO, or, THE 120 DAYS OF SODOM
BODY DOUBLE
the subtext of BEVERLY HILLS COP (though I like the film)
Harlan,
I'm with you on BODY DOUBLE - a thorougly nauseating film hemorhaged from the mind of a regressed, women-don't-like-me-so I-hate-them adolescent.
And I have to add the films of Spike Jones to the evil list. BEING JOHN MALKOVICH and ADAPTATION were hate-filled pieces of tricksy, superficial postmodern bullshit.
And Frank, FARGO fell flat for me too.
Mark
Evil Movies
Hadn't really thought about FARGO in a while, but now that ya'll mention it, last time I tried to watch it I found my attention wandering almost immediately. There are some terrific actors in it, and as an exercise in the banality of evil, I suppose it has some merit, but once you get past those factors there just isn't much there, is there?
Evil movies are nothing new. I refer ya'll to BIRTH OF A NATION or THE BLACK STORK. Not sure anything made since 1917 can match those two for pure evil. BOXING HELENA comes close, though. IMVHO
Here's a funny about AMERICAN BEAUTY. My wife, she of the limited short-term memory, kept going to the video store to rent it, but three or four times came home with AMERICAN PIE instead. As dreadful as that was, it may be a more honest movie than BEAUTY was. At least Eugene Levy was fun to watch in it.
Bad films and information
Here's mine:
The Alamo
The remake of Psycho - one question: Why?
Saturn 3 - I was convinced of the chemistry between Kirk Douglas and Farrah Fawcett. I was convinced that robots can become inbued with the "Fatal Instinct". I don't lie well...
Outland - I kept praying for Gary Cooper to rise from the grave, board a shuttle for Io, and shove Sean Connery out of an airlock.
Exorcist II - The fact that John Boorman is responsible for the visual image of a thespicly inept and chubby Linda Blair's attempt to seduce the hammy overacting priest played by Richard Burton (I still use his phrase "EEEEEE-Ville" for a cheap laugh) still sends a terror filled shiver up my spine. He was and is so much better than that tripe.
Zardoz...Nope, too easy.
I bring my own popcorn to theaters. It's cheaper and better tasting.
That's enough. I'll ask my question and then leave.
Harlan: I was curious to know if HERC has multiple year subscription rates, with discounts. If not, fine. I'll happily sign up.
M
Barry D.
Sir,
-->...if we're as smart as we think we are...<--your words
Somewhere in this Dining Pavilion I've made it pretty clear that I'm not much on the brainy side....I think I did.
The other thing I am not, is rude. I was merely engaging another webderlander in conversation, Barry. But you have seen fit to upset my dining experience.
What's with that?
I was under the (perhaps misguided) impression that civility was the order of the day in this place.
And, for the record, my favorite Harlan Ellison story is "One Life, Furnished in Early Poverty". That's not so interesting in itself. But the "why?", now THAT is so compelling as to be completely and utterly absorbing.
Mussed,
Neal
P.S. What happened to Rob?
EVIL FILMS:
RISKY BUSINESS
CONTACT
THE GREEN BERETS
SALO, or, THE 120 DAYS OF SODOM
BODY DOUBLE
the subtext of BEVERLY HILLS COP (though I like the film)
Harlan
Fargo sounds horrible. I don't know why Harlan sees movies like that. Like to hear Harlan comment on notables like "The Pianist" and "Mystic River." Two all time favorites of mine are "The Outcasts of the Islands," and "Broken Lance." The first has fulminating raw hatred directed at the protagonist, and the second has enough anger to motivate the whole cast.
Wow, good to see I am not alone on my clueless boredom over the film Fargo. There are wonderful moments in the film, but overall, the flick is boring and a bit pointless. It is a mean little film.
Harlan should debate Ebert on Fargo. As you all know, Ebert has Fargo on his best ever list.
-------------\\
Funny, when I first saw Forest Gump I was taken in by the sweet nature of the film. It made me feel good, and I cried like a little girl. Repeated viewings show the utter depraved idiocy of the film.
The patriotic quicksand of that movie makes me angry. That so many critics bought into it, scares me. They completely do a hatchet job on the 60's left. The usual flower in your hair, get high on grass, bigotry. Why didn't they show the anti-war people who got shit done? The 60's become a pop culture circle jerk; but no one is satisfied.
"Life is like a box of chocolates."
The most idiotic statement in modern pop culture. Mostly, life is like a box of shit. This movie suspends reality to the point that all you can do is flip off the screen in disgust.
Such flag waving, heartfelt drivel. Being stupid is good. Smart people are the enemy. This film has it all. Worst insult to films in twenty years. And this shit won Oscars!
-------------
Anyone diss Lair Of The White Worm, and they get smacked.
Gotta love english, horror farce. Ken Russell is a demented genius. Sick fuck.
------------------
Krislov, get hold of your senses man, comparing you to a Cato fellow is not in the same league as "kike" or some such rot. A bit over the top there, captain pc. Lol.
Still love ya snuggles.
Fargo: alls is not wells.
I'd like to third or fourth the dislike of Fargo. I thought it was a rather mean spirited movie propelled by the one joke of "Look at these people with the funny accents, don't'cha know. Even the Asian guy talks funny. And that funny talkin' sheriff is waddling around 'cuz she's pregnant. What a riot. And that guy in the woodchipper!"
And I like the Coen Brothers. Even the movie they did with Raimi has some merit. Fargo, though, just irks me.
---Peter
"The Tracked Up Arms"
Shit, that's a good one!
Brian, granted, I've not done much reading up on this TiVo thing, but what the hell is all the hubbub about with this device? Everytime I hear someone in the throes of orgasm over TiVo I have to wonder if they've ever used a VCR before.
Is it just that TiVo tosses on a couple of cute bells and whistles? I swear I've had someone say to me "and I was able to watch a show that was on last night after I got home late" as if God him/her/itself had blessed them with the creation of oxygen.
Maybe there is some stunning function that this hi-tech VCR offers and I have been too lazy to learn about it, but these people walking around with TiVo erections are beginning to spook me.
-TODD
OK I'll bite....
(and probably earn myself the label of Hopeless And Clueless in the world of cinema as well, but.....)
Brian and Chris, why do American Beauty and Forrest Gump top your most-hated list? I enjoyed both of those. I'll usually at least try to watch anything starring Tom Hanks or Kevin Spacey, I think they're both excellent actors (Okay, K-PAX was rather silly, but otherwise...)
I also have to confess that the only Coen brothers film I liked was O Brother Where Art Thou.
Evil films
I don't particularly like any Coen Brothers movie, except for maybe "O Brother," (and that's mostly due to Clooney's fine cracker dance at the end) and I second Harlan's loathing of "Fargo." That flick got a huge pass because of Frances McDormand's performance, but it was a nasty little movie, pretending to be edgy when it was really just abusive. I didn't like "Blood Simple" for the same reasons.
I kind of enjoyed "Forrest Gump," which I found to be a tame diversion, but was genuinely appalled at "American Beauty," not only at the meanness of the movie but at how popular and acclaimed it was. Mena Suvari turned me on, but she could have made any movie to do that.
I remember when it was first announced, I was all in a sweat to see Gibson's "Passion," because as a former linguistics student I was eager to hear a movie in Aramaic and Latin. Now I'm wondering if I want to sit through two hours of slo-mo flensing just for that little pleasure...probably not. I've heard the acting and cinematography is all quite good, but it sounds like Gibson ruined what could have been a thought-provoking project with just too much carnage.
Evil films worth a watch: "Bitter Moon," "Lair of the White Worm," and "May." Just saw "Alfie" the other night for the first time...fun movie!
The article I suspect Tim mentions regarding his band:
http://www.southcoasttoday.com/daily/02-04/02-15-04/c01li022.htm
Barney - that's why I'm the Finder, and you're not.
Mishmosh
Harlan -- I'll be in touch, good to know good things are
happening, if you're squeezin' in between deadlines. The Olympic
Hotel (named for the speed with which commuters dash for the
subway) may have plenty of character-building atmosphere -- 3a.m.
screaming matches in the hall, blood-spatters in the stairwell,
Keanu Reeves shooting scenes from CONSTANTINE not 6 feet from my
door -- but it really wasn't the place for someone with disabling
depression and social anxiety disorders. The whole time I was
there, I never finished a story -- not one.
DOCTOR WHO -- The show was uneven, after Tom Baker left, mostly
due to the writing. The Doctor IS returning, the Beeb says so,
and Russell T. Davies has been dragooned into producing and doing
some writing for it. For anyone who wants to catch up with
things Whovian, check out Outpost Gallifrey at gallifreyone.com.
Jeff -- Do a google search on Eddie Brandt's Saturday Matinee
Video Store. They have the most AMAZING collection of video and
dvd, and could very likely hook you up -- they carry a LOT of
serials and like that.
Tom -- If Harlan is jamming anything in his ears, it's probably
Stevie Ray Vaughn or Django Reinhardt.
FARGO -- I liked it. As Mr. Benchley used to say, "One man's
Mede is another man's Persian." Don't like it? Don't watch it.
The Pouting Thing -- I am NOT pouting. I'm notnotnotnotnotnotnot
notnotnotnotnotnotnotnotnotnotnotnotnotnotnotnotnotnotnotnot...
Cheers,
Doc
Evil films. Not just bad movies, but movies that were told to us by the creators and critics that these films were about Something, when they were actually the opposite.
FALLING DOWN: "story of an ordinary man..." Bullshit. The guy was nuts to begin with and the hate, bigotry, and self-loathing exceeded even my personal levels. Not one of Mike Douglas's best films. (Oh, and BASIC INSTINCT was no good, too, but I think that was just B-movie crap as opposed to evil.)
Anything by Michael Bay.
THE LAST SEDUCTION: Despite Fiorentino's performance (or, maybe because of it), I think this movie received way too much attention for what it really was about: women are sexy, thieving creatures and men are dumbshits that are led around by their pricks. Hmmmm. Ok, maybe that's true, but I still think the movie is evil.
And for the alphabet soup guy below...maybe you coulda come up with something better than a villain from a Superman comic book? (You forgot the Mr. in front of your name.)
a random thought
WEBmaster: Dosen't it seem odd to have a title that sounds like you're a villain in a spider-man comic book? "The Coming of ... WEBMASTER!" You know? Just curious...
Evil Films
Strong disagreement on FARGO, but will not debate the point.
More interested in discussing major films I found evil, of which there are an exceeding few.
SCENT OF A WOMAN: A tribute to destructive, abusive, irresponsible behavior which is okay because the culprit is played by a big star. The big lesson here is that most principled moral stand one can take here is not to narc.
THE ENGLISH PATIENT: The anti-CASABLANCA, in which the problems of the whole world do not measure up to the love story of three little people.
SUDDEN IMPACT: Clint Eastwood has established himself, elsewhere, as an artist of true sensitivity. This Dirty Harry film, set in a moral universe composed of victims, avengers and scum deserving to die -- with no other positions possible -- was his nadir.
Brian wrote
**For me, the two worst offenders of recent years were _American Beauty_ and _Forrest Gump_. **
And for this sir, no matter whatever other disagreements I may ever have with you re: the subject of cinema, you mark yourself a genuine film expert and a man of impeccable taste.
DOCTOR WHO.
The series didn't entirely fall to bits after Tom Baker's departure. Peter Davison made for a superb replacement, IMHO. Instead of simply imitating Tom's image, they went in the opposite direction; a daring move, considering how LONG Tom held the weight of the series on his shoulders. (Seven years, wasn't it?)
Sadly, Davison was supported by a majority of CRAP stories that continued to degenerate as the series dragged on, becoming a grotesque mutant parody in the late 1980's that was finally put down like a crippled horse.
Paul McGann? Had one movie back in 1996, and was never heard from again. Damn shame.
ALLEGEDLY, the Man with Two Hearts is returning again somewhere around 2005/2006. Peter David once cited Anthony Head as the best next candidate, but I'm personally praying for Bill Nighy(UNDERWORLD) to seize the title, if only because the man has shades of William Hartnell about him.
Speaking of copyrights
The Seventh Circuit Appeal Courts ruled in favor of Neil Gaiman's lawsuit against Todd McFarlane for coyright infringement on the Angela/Medieval Spawn Cagliostro case. This is the final ruling. Neil wins. BIG. And Miracleman may be coming back to the stands thanks to this. You can read the appeals at :
http://www.ca7.uscourts.gov/op3.fwx?submit1=showop&caseno=03-1331
Or visit Neil's site and blog for more info.
Hip-hip-hooray!!!! The forces of good win again!!!!!
Re Harlan and _Fargo_: I'd be interested in knowing Harlan's reasons why he didn't like the film. Not to argue the point, actually: I haven't seen it beyond a few short scenes, so I have no opinion on it beyond liking the rest of the Coens' films. I'd just be interested in the whys, the means, the ways the thoughts went through Our Esteemed Host's mind about it. And it'd be more interesting since so many other people liked _Fargo_. But then again, I'm not paying Harlan to write movie reviews for my edification.
Didn't we discuss this before? The films which other people seem to love, or respect, or hold in high esteem... but which we found to be empty, worthless, or even egregiously evil? For me, the two worst offenders of recent years were _American Beauty_ and _Forrest Gump_. (Films like _Dumb and Dumberer_ or _Corky Romano_ are worthless, of course. But they're not hailed as great or moving or brilliant by anyone. They'll just be time-fillers for TNT's weekend afternoons.)
On the viewing front, I just sank some cash into a Tivo box. VERY neat little machine. It really is a different way of handling television: it's as though I've hired someone to trawl the river of programs to pick out what I tend to like, and when _I_ feel like looking at TV, TiVo's got a small stockpile of stuff I can look at. As long as I remember to empty the trawling bin every so often, TiVo ought to do OK by me. (I mainly got it for the woodworking shows.)
***AACKK!!! Harlan surely you jest! Putting Fargo in the same category as Dumb and Dumber? Oww that hurts! Maybe you were not feeling well the day you saw it. Yeah. That must be it.
Ellison Cinematic Playhouse
Still enjoy my copy of "Harlan Ellison's Watching", with his intriguing review of "Joe". I saw the film based the recommmendation in Ellison's book. You think Boyle was hard to stand in "Monster's Ball"? Try watching him in this drama about a New York hardhat. So, I don't think Harlan would mind discussion of films in this neck of the woods.
Bit of an aside, but did you know that Peter Boyle started out as a monk in the Christian Brothers?
I'm surprised at the failure to mention "Fargo", perhaps their most accessible film, and one of the Coen's greatest. "Barton Fink" and the flawed "O Brother, Where Art Thou?", come to mind as my favorite Coen pieces. I'll never forget the marvelous scene of John Tuturo as a writer hornswoggled into being an Indian extra. I still chuckle when I think of it.
By the way, underrated actor? M. Emmet Walsh. He just seems to engrave himself on his audience with his presence.
Jon: One of the questions was answered, but what about multiple year subscriptions? Most offer reduced rates for those who sign up for longer than one year. The money's not so good right now, and pinching a penny or two does help.
Living close to penury (ten kilometers outside Newcastle), M
MINUSCULE RESPONSES TWIXT DEADLINES
DOC: Good to hear you're still circling the track. By all means let me know your new stats. As for Dr. Who, my interest waned after my friend Tom Baker exited the Tardis final and forever after. Apart from once having been hustled into having a grotesque pitch-meeting with a dizzy Disney exec who was himself being hustled by the producer who'd dragooned me; he was pitching, with me as stalking-horse, an American version of the Doctor (shudder); a meeting that so-help-me-on-the-grave-of-my-Momma began with a demented parody of the old Abbott&Costello vaudeville routine ... with the exec asking me what the Doctor's name was, and me answering, "Who," and him asking again, "The Doctor," and me stressing the word as I reiterated, "WHO. His name is only Dr. WHO," and this crazy as a shithouse rat routine went on for another, at least, five minutes before I just simply clapped my hands over my ears to keep my deliquescent brains from dribbling out onto my shoulders ... apart from the chilling memory of that shadowy afternoon, I've had nothing but the most minimal contact with the series, and have no idea how it went after Baker bounced away. Does that answer your question? If so, stop pouting, and you ARE TOO pouting.
(Gee, I'm sorry you left that wonderfully sleazy hotel you were staying in. I swear to you, sometimes I flex off these Raymond Chandleresque mental scenarios in which I live at The Tracked Up Arms, or whatever it was called. I'm sure if I'd put in a year or two passim those environs, I'd write at least as well as John Fante. Sigh.)
I am only NUTS about Coen Bros. films, with one exception. And that exception is a film both Susan and I righteously despise.
And we don't need you arguing with us, so fuckoff!
FARGO.
What a boring mess of a film. Even with William H. Macy, whom I contend is a GREAT treasure of an American talent, even with him working his butt off, the film oughtta be led outta the theater on a leash; it oughtta be spayde; it oughtta be schvitzed with flea and tick repellent; it oughtta be pulling a sled in the Iditerod; it oughtta be sleeping in the backyard in a Billy Barty-sized house; it oughtta be out sniffing the butts of other idiot flicks like DUMB AND DUMBERER or CHARLIE'S ANGELS II; it oughtta be on the labels of Alpo--Have You Seen the Lost Brain of This Movie?--it oughtta ... well ... perhaps I've made my point, y'think?
Seasons' greetings to you all. Yr. pal, Harlan
What's the favorite color in your favorite song...
Which is [perhaps] a bitter and cynical line from a Violent Femmes tune. Or close to one. Strange days when I agree with Todd and not Neal but here we are.
Since I don't think there are any "undecideds" posting here I think blurting and screeching on about the paucity of choices in American politics or whatever is passing for the issues is a bit of a dead end. It's certainly further from topic than books or movies since Harlan pretty much abandoned political writing. There is the 9-11 piece and the PEN Award winner. So it's not as though he can't write that stuff on a world class level. But for real regular political invective you have to go back to the days of the FREEP and the Glass Teat material.
Whatever kind of writer Harlan is - "political writer" certainly isn't going to be in the top three on the Family Feud board of "survey says" choices. Maybe it's the Borges thing he and Robert Silverberg touched on at the last I-Con. Is that sort of thing still a factor? I would hope that times change but they probably never do.
*** Neal *** American politics certainly is a yawn and a mugs game but so is that question about favorite Ellison story. And so is least favorite.
Why not;
What Ellison story has yielded the most poetical line or image?
best story in sleaziest market?
most obscure literary bankshot or reference?
best bang for buck, ie. lowest expectation, highest payoff?
what kind of story has Harlan never taken a whack at that might yield interesting results?
What living writer would you most like to see Harlan team-up with other than Gaiman and Bradbury?
What if Harlan wrote the Odyssey?
Leaves of Grass? Finnegan's Wake? Oliver Twist? The Moon Is A Harsh Mistress?
Don't like these literary games? No problem. I'm just saying if we're as smart as we think we are we should be able to do better than favorite story.
*** Tim *** Ok, I looked at Google with "Tim Richmond Pearly Baker" AND "Pearly Baker Tim Richmond" and all I'm finding is stuff from 2000 and 1996 and some guy who wants to play in a band with you with some guy from slipknot. Oh, and that dead NASCAR guy. Certainly no current article featuring you. How about a URL there young man?
*** PAB *** I know S. French are the big boys. Are they THE ONLY game in town? Shudder. The play I referred to was written between 1992 and 2000. I don't think the playright would have bothered if they had imagined they would have to negotiate individual performances with the estate - or that French would have to umm, agent[?] it that way. Times changed. Then they changed back.
- Barney Dannelke
Do I contradict myself? Very well.
Frank, one of the things I love about the internet is how many different names I get called, and how many assumptions are made about me, just because I expressed a viewpoint. Yours is the first message I've ever received that told me I sound like someone from Cato, though. Thanks, I'll add it to the list, which also includes neo-nazi, kike, atheist, bibledrooler, capitalist, communist, feminist, macho pig, luddite, technodweeb, geek, bigot, boytoy and pagan.
Now, me, I'd love to subvert some of those big companies. Among my close friends are Steve Gerber and Marv Wolfman, Frank. Believe me, I know how creators get ripped off! But the trouble with your downloading argument is that however little or much it hurts the corporations, it also hurts the creators, and creates an atmosphere is disdain for _their_ rights. And I will not subscribe to any credo that does this.
Want to subvert those big companies? Stick, insofar as possible, to the little guys. Buy used books. Look for an opportunity to buy direct from authors and musicians' own websites. HERC is not alone these days. I get about half my CDs from artists, bypassing the big publishers and Amazon alike. But stealing the music--or books--rips off the creators, not just the big companies.
Commie kisses,
Alex
Harlan, Susan, & barn E.
(And to anyone who cares; particularly Bill G. who lives in the town where this appears) There's an article on line pertaining to my/our band "Pearly Baker." You can get to it by doing a "Google Search" on my name followed by the band. Thought you'd get a kick. Also, if any of the rest you are in the area, come to a gig and say hello.
>Seems that Redford omitted this inconvenient portion of Che's diaries form his touching film.
Let's get a few things straight, Wayne. First, it's not Redford's film. It was directed by Walter Salles. Second, Guevara's Motorcycle Diaries were written when he was in his twenties, long before he was involved in Cuban politics.
I don't deny that Che's image is to be found on the walls and t-shirts of fools who have no idea of the crimes committed in the name of "revolution". But you do your cause no service when you mangle the facts so badly.
(This was apparently an article quoted from the AP news service wire without any sort of reference or attribution. It has been deleted. You can find a link to a post containing the entire quoted article at
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1083448/posts. - Ed.)
Please note my typo, "he plugs up his ears with".....obviously, I was pondering something clever and witty to plug up those ears of his yet failed to complete my thought.
It's a contest, gang. What does Harlan shove in his ears???
-TODD
Q: How is discussion of Coen Brothers films and Jennifer Jason Leigh related to Harlan?
A: Is Harlan not a film critic? Does he not have an entire volume of film criticism in print (Harlan Ellison's Watching)? Is Harlan not a Man-About-Hollywood (other than simply living about the place)? Does Harlan enjoy movies as much as the next man, and hate many of them just as well? Yes, yes, yes and yes.
When the discussion here gets ponderous (read Libs vs. Conservs) he plugs up his ears with and shouts "Cease, desist, you're all driving me nuts!". Other than that, Harlan will often be found here discussing movies and music and books and people and plenty of stuff that isn't directly related to him other than the fact that he lives and breathes and enjoys and despised just like the rest of us.
-TODD
Marci Kiser
Good point Marci. This Coen Bros. bidness has become quite the snoozer. >yawn<
So what is your favorite Harlan story and why?
Regards,
Neal
Krislov, you sound like one of those Cato Libertarian fellows. This thing about the "free market" bugs the hell out of me. You and I both know that the market aint free, and it is tightly controlled by a governing elite. They control the tollbooths, they make sure independant voices are not heard. And their main aim is sell, sell, sell.
Downloading is the one way we can subvert the corporate toll booth. Like I said, you cannot sell pirate cds you download, but sharing should be fine. No different then turning on the radio, and taping a song, or album.
How else do you preview an album, to make sure it is worth the cost? And I think pricing should be just. I even believe in price controls.
-------------
I have a feeling Ralph Nader has sealed his doom with the left. Now noone will talk to him. Lol.
I still like him, but this run for the White House seems arrogant to me.
This whole discussion of movies is somewhat Harlan-related. I mean, the man's a screenwriter and the host hasn't yelled at us to stop. Besides, the host is busy mingling so when he's not here we have to amuse ourselves someway. I think it's safe to say that if the conversation ever veers away from "suitable" then HE would not hesitate to say so. I know, I know, the man is somewhat shy and passive, but he may put his foot down when need be.
I second Jeff Bridges and I think FEARLESS was a fantastic movie, to name one he put in a great performance. THUNDERBOLT AND LIGHTFOOT was a great movie and even more so because of Eastwood and Bridges (including Kennedy's classic line: "I've got asthma."---oh, and it was a fine piece of work from Cimino, too, before he got all goofy with shit like DESPERATE HOURS).
I'm gonna give RAISING ARIZONA a nudge over THE BIG LEBOWSKI, but that's personal opinion and is no more right than anyone else's opinion. Except we all know that I know what I'm talking about. (Now, what was I talking about...?)
Underrated, underrated...how 'bout Eastwood---as an actor, I mean? Kurt Russell is another one. Always solid. Depp, but probably not underrated for long with his SAG award. What about actresses? Laura Linney? Naomi Watts?
I concede the remaining amount of my time to my esteemed colleagues.
Jennifer Jason Leigh and Whatever Else Pops Into My Little Brain
She was, I thought, good enough in the Dorothy Parker movie, but at other time she seems rather ... what's a good word for it? .. mannered. You can see her acting the character, instead of simply being the character. Robert Mitchum, for example, used to say that he admired actors whom you could nevercatch acting, and that he would slit his throat in shame if anyone ever noticed him acting. Peter Cushing is another who used to write a reminder to himself on all his scripts, "Don't act. Be." Sometimes Leigh seems to shre Meryl Streep's talent for what the critic John Simon called "over-underacting." If you know what I mean? I agree that it's a bit hard to see how all this relates to Harlan, but perhaps he'll have some comments of his own to make. That will make it belong on this website, won't it? ODDS AND ENDS: Check out the above mentioned P. Cushing, as well as Flipper's former playmate Luke Halpin and gorgeous Brooke Adams in SHOCK WAVES< a Florida-filmed epic about Nazi zombies that is done with such mood and care, and such a total lack of blood and gore that Harlan, even your justifiably revered Val Lewton would be impressed. Anyone know where I might find Brentwood Video's dvd of THE GREEN HORNET? Is it really out of print already? Help me out here, will ya? See ya later.
Personally, I always saw the Coen Bros. as the American equivalent of Jean-Pierre Jeunet and Marc Caro, what with their HIGHLY distinctive visual styles and often grotesque gallery of bizarre characters. But I prefer Caro and Jeunet to the Coens, frankly. There's a certain inherent mean-spiritedness in a regular Coen. Bros movie that I find incredibly repellent. Please don't ask me to articulate what I mean by 'mean-spirited', because I'm not quite sure myself. I just happen to find their films vaguely hateful and ugly.
Confused
Has Harlan Ellison ever been involved in either a Coen Bros. or Jennifer Jason Leigh movie?
I ask because it seems fairly explicit when the board says 'When he's not here, we talk about him or his work. When he is, we act like guests in his home,' and was having trouble seeing the relation between the aforementioned two and Harlan.
Perhaps Leigh traveled back in time to have a crowd scene in The Oscar?
Darned one-post-a-day rule, I cruse you!
When I started the post where I mentioned that Douglas had listed all my least fvaorite Coen Bros films as his favorites, my point (which I forgot to make before hitting send) was that it's quite a testament to the unusual body of work the Coens have created that two people who would call themselves fans of their work can still have such divided views on their individual films. In addition, Huducker is the only Coen Bros. film I consider to be "bad" and even that has many redeeming qualities. It's got Bruce Campbell, after all. And truly dazzling set design.
I do think their most overrated film, by far, is Blood Simple which is really a terribly awkward nonsensical film in which the two protagonists are so bland and passive they can barely be remembered five minutes after the film is over. The plot is ludicrous and the acting is generally uninspired... with the distinct exception of M. Emmett Walsh. Nonetheless, the movie, for all its flaws, contains some remarkable aspects. First, there's Walsh's unforgettable performance. Second, there's the extraordinary extended and almost entirely wordless sequence in which Ray disposes of the body. Third, the inspired staging at the end with the hand and the knife and the punching through the wall. It's an extremely clunky movie and really pretty dull to watch but it works mainly as an advertisement of the good things to come from the young filmmakers. The talent is on full display - it just hadn't matured yet.
Todd, Raising Arizona has some great moments (can you ever top "Her womb was a rocky place in which my seed could find no purchase"?) but it doesn't hold a candle to Lebowski. There are only a handful of movies, maybe not even a dozen, I have seen which reduce me to tears of laughter and have me gasping for breath every time I see them. Lebowski is one of them and is perhaps the most eminently rewatchable comedy ever made. I have probably seen it more times than any other film except 2001.
And that reminds me if we're lauding actors/actresses, how about Jeff Bridges? He's delivered two of my favorite performances in modern American cinema - as the Dude and as Lightfoot in the criminally underrated _Thunderbolt and Lightfoot._ His turn as the President in _The Contender_ is also nothing short of brilliant. He's also done fine work in films such as _Fearless_ , _The FIsher King_ and _Tucker._ He's definitely high on my list.
Thanks to DTS for acknowledging my existence -- I shall do that,
I owe Harlan a call to let him know I'm still alive (if he hasn't
read this by now).
As to the Leigh thread, I think she's a splendid actor, and is
to be lauded for restraining herself from some of the pyrotech-
nics that have made some of her contemporaries somewhat better
known. On the other hand, I loathed her work in MRS PARKER &
THE ETC. While Mrs Parker observed that "A girl's best friend is
her mutter," I can't see where this directs an actress portraying
her to deliver all her lines through clenched teeth.
Cheers,
Doc
Alex Krislov:
I read K.C. Constantine's "Blood Mud" a few years ago and enjoyed it, especially the realistic dialog. Stephen King is a fan, too, and in his book "On Writing," he praises Constantine's book "Family Values" as something worth reading.
M: Yes, it was a movie that seemed to be the wrong length -- either twenty minutes too long or a mini-series too short. As to HERC membership, it's pretty simple -- the explanation is part of this website, at harlanellison.com/resources.htm
Todd: _Intolerable Cruelty,_ I believe.
Cheers, Jon
Well, took a one day penalty as a means to punish overposting. I know, one a day. Next time I do a bad, chain saw flagellation. Don't worry, it'll be on FOX.
Jon: Saw "Contenders - Series Seven": I liked it, but felt there was too much crushjed into a two hour running time for one to really get interested in the characters, which left the satire about reality TV feeling one note. I couldn't help but think that this should've been made as reality programming is, perhaps as a ten or twelve hour series, with a two hour finale. The creators could just go whole hog; the ominpresent host, different and more perverse challenges along the way (kept thinking of things like two contestants loosed in a hospital, their goal to get the most amount of terminal patients off this mortal coil. Winner gets a week's immunity, loser gets to re-enact a paticular scene from "Fargo" in the role made famous by Steve Buscemi), and all done without disclaimers if at all possible. Short of a psychotic "Joe Schmoe".
Tonight, "Six String Samurai". I love the bowling gang scene.
Bit of a irk, as well. A few days ago, I asked for a little help with info for membership in HERC. Not really wanting to kvetch, but I got no answer to my queries, and normally that would be fine for me. The irk comes from then having to put up with a stream of emails from folks who post here asking me for money. If I'm not good enough to answer, fine, just don't spam me on top of it.
M
Copyrights and copied wrongs
First off, hello to Bob Ingersoll! Haven't seen you since Harlan's trip to Cleveland. No excuse either--we must live all of three miles away from each other. Good to see you here, and thanks for answering that question relating to my earlier message so succinctly. That saves me from having to address the legal issue involved in library copies, and frees me to address the moral issue--which is more important.
But first, a diversion.
Has anyone here read the works of K.C. Constantine? Constantine writes putative mysteries, which are really nothing of the kind. They're actually explorations of ethnic groups in a dying Pennsylvania mining town. The author is particularly brilliant at realistic dialogue. The best titles of the series are "The Man Who Liked Slow Tomatoes" and "Joey's Case," but one of the weaker ones is relevant to this discussion.
In "Bottom Liner Blues," the series protagonist, Mario Balzic, finds himself held at gunpoint by a drunken writer. In an endless scene--endless, I think, to give the reader the feeling of helplessness and frustration felt by Balzic--the writer rants and groans over the injustice of library loans, and the failure of libraries to remunerate writers for each reading of a book. And reading the scene, you can't help but wonder if there's an autobiographical element here, at least to the stance.
Little is known of Constantine, save that he's some sort of teacher and was, briefly, some kind of ballplayer. He's not a unknown as Pynchon or Traven, but if any pictures exist, I haven't seen them. And while I don't recommend "Bottom Liner Blues" as a novel, I do recommend it to anyone interested in the library-loan issue.
And, no, you can't download one for free.
Teak, the difference between a library copy and an MP3 is really very simple. The library only has the one copy--or, if it has more, it paid for each one of them. It can loan them out, but the reader doesn't get to keep them. The same number of copies still exist. An MP3 download creates a new copy, not paid for. It doesn't matter if it's been read (listened to) or not. A new copy exists. The author's cut is gone.
Remember, you can already take CDs out of the library. They have lots of them, as well as lots of movies. Just as you can borrow a book from the library, you can borrow a CD. But copying either is illegal. And it should be.
And what basis do you have a moral right to download it? That you want a copy? That doesn't entitle you to one. You don't have a right to something just because it's available. You don't have a moral right to decide what a suitable price might be. That right belongs to the creator, the publisher and the market. A creator can price himself out of the market--and that's his right, to make that "mistake." If he does, that doesn't entitle anyone to get a cheaper copy. Life ain't fair sometimes.
And the same technology that makes copies easy to make destroys the "it's too expensive" argument, anyway. When I was a tad, I could have made the argument that it was too damned hard to find a used copy, cheaper, if I wanted one. There were only so many used bookstores in Cleveland (granted, one of them had two million volumes--but I digress). Nowadays, you can buy from all over the country at the click of a button. Just look up Harlan's name on Ebay--or the name of your favorite CDs, for that matter. Once they've been out for a year, things get incredibly affordable, once the entire country is a single marketplace.
In the end, the whole argument for downloading without creators' permission--books or music--boils down to, "I want it, and I don't have as much money to spend as they want for it." You can gussy it up with slogans like "information wants to be free" and proclaim it a matter of free speech, but it's still an old moral question: are you a thief, or do you respect the very creator whose work you enjoy?
I respect the creators--even if that means I can't always afford a fresh, new copy of their work.
--Alex
P.S. If this goes on and on line the scene from Constantine's novel, my apologies. My regular computer is in the shop, and I can't tell if I'm running off at the mouth on this portable.
"Look into your heeeeeaaart!". Turturro's acting in that one scene in Miller's Crossing still sends shivers up my spine....especially knowing what he character does shortly after he convincingly begs for his life (the first time).
The Coen Brothers' movies are fun stuff. Miller's Crossing is exquisite, though Fargo is pretty high up there as well (and yes, I know Harlan and many on this board did not like Fargo, but though it was a bit overhyped by the critics at the time, it is still an exceptional movie with an exceptional cast).
The 'in' thing in the past few years is to rate The Big Lebowski as the Coen's best movie....it's become a cult classic. Yes, it's a hoot, but if you want to see one of the goddamned funniest movies ever filmed, see Raising Arizona.
Their biggest failure is their most recent release, I forget the title, but then again it's not really a failure since they claim their goal was to purposely attempt a Hollywood fluff romantic comedy. They succeeded.
That's the only Coen Bros movie that I do not need to add to my DVD collection.
-TODD
Excluding _Fast Times at Ridgemont High_, I've never seen Jennifer Jason Leigh give a bad performance, _The Hudsucker Proxy_ and _Mrs. Parker_ being my two favs, with _Delores Claiborne_ a close third. A great talent. She makes me forget I'm watching a movie.
And will someone give Ralph Nader a clue?
Mark
My Coen Ain't Your Coen
Chris:
As I kinda suspected from posts you have made on the other board, we have different tastes in movies. I thought "The Man Who Wasn't There" was a failure (the only Coen Bros. film that bored me, despite Thorton's performance) and have always been left cold by "Barton Fink" (though it's interesting enough for me to have watched it three times). "The Big Lebowski" IS funny, but I consider it flawed beacause it's story lacks a certain cohesiveness. "Miller's Crossing" appeals to me because of the very complexity that seems to turn a lot of people off -- and if you want to talk about acting, watch Turturro in THAT film. "Blood Simple" ... what Frank said. And I should have listed "Fargo" as a fave, again because of the acting.
I respect your opinion, Chris -- clearly you think about what you're watching -- but, hey, I like Leigh as a manic reporter. What can I say?
At least we both have standards.
D.
Read it and find out, why doncha?
Since none of the vast intellects who populate this pavillion sneered at my last post as being too banal for them, I thought I'd direct your attention to some other films and etc. they mightb be interested in catching up with through the modern miracle of dvd. PRESSURE POINT, with Bobby Darin and Sidney Potier, is an excellent study of a young American Nazi, with some jaw-dropping visuals. Equally bizarre, in it's way, is 1966's BATMAN movie, with Adam West and Burt Ward, of course, and leftover sets from VOYAGE TO THE BOTTOM OF THE SEA. Of course, Harlan's two OUTER LIMITS classics, "Demon with a Glass Hand," and "Soldier," are available as part of the boxed set of Season Two episodes. Check out THE GRAOPES OF WRATH and OF MICE AND MEN to find out what the Golden Age of Hollywood was all about. Gtta go, the toilet's overflowing ... again! More later. Bet you just can't wait. (Gee, I feel so inadequate on this board with all the Sociology 101 guys...)
>If so, shouldn't it be an authors' prerogative whether we check out their works from a library? <
You are confused. The author-publisher relationship covers this perogative. The publisher represents their authors, and makes the decision on whether or not to distribute to libraries.
Music artists are represented in the same way by their recording companies, which is why the RIAA is conducting the downloading lawsuits, not a group of rock bands.
I'm sure Mr. Ellison would be thrilled if the Association of American Publishers or whomever sued AOL on his and other print writers' behalf. Since they haven't, he's doing it himself.
And since this was twice in one day, I'll vanish for a while. Sorry, had to respond.
***I agree with Rick. Jennifer Jason Lee is an ok actress, nothing more. I think most times her acting is rather flat...something not quite convincing about her. Even on broadway in " Proof " she seemed to be " acting ". When you feel that the roles don't seem real. But I still like her.
***Blood Simple and Fargo are my fav Cohen Brother's movies. Blood Simple is on my top ten list, as a matter of fact.
***Consider yourself hugged.
How can we be discussing Jennifer Jason Leigh with no mention of her brilliant turn as Dorothy Parker in MRS. PARKER AND THE VICIOUS CIRCLE? Yes, it was another of those "open the vein" roles, but the role put her often mannered, stylized acting technique to good use. I loved this movie. Anyone else?
PAB
>>>Because the library paid for the book, and has an arrangement with the publisher to . The author received royalites from the payment. Publishers release special library editions for this purpose. Your taxes pay for the library staff, its holdings, and its service.
>>>Free MP3 sites are not libraries; they do not have agreements with music publishers to distribute their product, nor does the community support them with taxes.
This is analogous to the MP3 situation. The internet was built by universities and the government which, like libraries, are publicly funded. What's more, the online distribution usually stems from a legally purchased copy as well.
But anway, I thought we were talking about creators' rights. If so, shouldn't it be an authors' prerogative whether we check out their works from a library? Shouldn't an author be able to tell us when and where and by their work can be read? I don't think anyone would posit such with a straight-face but that's where the creator's rights argument, if left to unfold naturally, arrives.
The real difference between library/internet is that one is clearly legal and the other is ambiguous. In short, arguing for the legitimacy of the library and against that of the 'net is a status quo argument. But that fails as well, because as the recent circuit remand shows, the law is unsettled.
And lest I'm misunderstood, I sincerely hope Mr. Ellison wins his lawsuit. I may disagree with the principles by which his moral and legal arguments are guided. But I can agree it'd be nice to see AOL get soaked.
Marci:
But also keep in mind that libraries are one of the most underfunded institutions in this country which would make it impossible for them to pay such royalties. A lot of public libraries across the country are closing their doors or cutting back on hours due to budget cutbacks. And in Chicago, not only is there a hiring freeze citywide but a lot of librarians are taking early retirement further straining their resources.
Frankly, I wouldn't mind seeing such a royalty system in place but until the federal, state and municipal governments start pouring more money on libraries and other educational institutions, that will never be a feasible plan.
Alejandro
Libraries
>Why is it ok to check a book out of the library and read it, but not ok to download an MP3?Because the library paid for the book, and has an arrangement with the publisher to . The author received royalites from the payment. Publishers release special library editions for this purpose. Your taxes pay for the library staff, its holdings, and its service. <
Not to mention that America is rather lax in how it does its library system in regards to authors: in somewhere like Britain or Spain, an author receives a (very small) payment *every time* someone checks out one of their books.
Oh shit, everyone knows that Blood Simple is the best film from those goofy Minnesota boys. It is a pulse pounding art film that feels like entertainment. The movie stinks of suspense. Every scene is genius. They learned from Sam Raimi quite well. It is the Evil Dead of crime thrillers.
----------
Jane Russell was pretty hot in her day as well.
CHRIS L: It's amazing how two people's opinions can differ on a film. If it weren't for the impeccable timing of Jennifer Jason Leigh, Bruce Campbell and John Mahoney in the newspaper room scenes, The Hudsucker Proxy would be a mere shadow of the movie that it is. Also, Leigh's lightning-fast switches from hard-nosed Russell-dialogue to soft-focus, Hepburn-like moments were absolutely amazing to me. She was able to show the human character behind those homages as well.
The movie is satire and the performances are a heightened blend of psychological realism iwith movie characters in a movie situation.
I loved the Ahura Mazda/Ahriman struggle between the two Janitors (the secret rulers of that universe). I loved Paul Newman's performance ("It's a shame to waste a whole Monte Christo"). I loved the Katchaturian score from Spartacus, and I loved the look of the film.
I respect your opinion, Chris. I just wish you loved this movie as much as I do.
Steve Dooner
Sorry for posting twice, but I just saw this item after posting here. The _New York Times_ has an article about Will Eisner's latest, _The Plot_.
I figure, news about Will Eisner is worth violating a house rule.
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/02/23/books/23EISN.html
_The Hudsucker Proxy_ is one of my genuine favorites, and yes, I liked Jennifer Jason Leigh's performance a _lot_.
But has anyone noticed what a wonderful performance Paul Newman gives in that movie? Think about it. Here's Paul Newman, one of the most magnetic actors of our time... and the Coens talk him into giving a performance as grotesque and cartoony as George C. Scott in _Dr. Strangelove_. Look at the snarl on his face as he wrestles the cigar from Tim Robbins' mouth. Watch the grimace he freezes into when the angel floats by. Robbins is just fine, I liked Leigh tremendously, it's fun to watch actors like Bruce Campbell and John Mahoney and Charles Durning strut their stuff, and the whole "Saber Dance" sequence is pure cinema magic... but casting Paul Newman as Sidney J. Mussberger was fuckin' genius.
I loved the sets, too.
>Why is it ok to check a book out of the library and read it, but not ok to download an MP3?<
Because the library paid for the book, and has an arrangement with the publisher to . The author received royalites from the payment. Publishers release special library editions for this purpose. Your taxes pay for the library staff, its holdings, and its service.
Free MP3 sites are not libraries; they do not have agreements with music publishers to distribute their product, nor does the community support them with taxes.
DR. WHO
Doc: Haven't got a clue. You're best bet would probably be to go to the horse's mouth -- or wait till Harlan revisits the board
--DTS
It's after midnight my time so I assume this counts as the next day for my one post.
Steve, I am well aware of the Rosalind Russell "homage" and have, of course, seen His Girl Friday. It doesn't improve Leigh's performance at all. Douglas just described it as manic - it certainly was that. So manic it was excruciating to watch. I don't blame Leigh for it - the role was simply terribly ill-conceived by the Coens. Russell's performance is manic enough - kicking it up about twenty five more notches provides the experience of havin Daffy Duck on an ectasy binge kicking around in your head for two hours. The Coens have always been hit and miss with both the hits and the misses being rather spectacular ones and that's what makes them such interesting filmmakers.
Douglas then went on to list what I'd consider all the Coen Bros.' worst films except maybe Raising Arizona which has some brilliant sequences (all the pre-credit material and, of course, the chase) in it that makes up for the dead-air stretches that plague the film.
Best Coen Bros. films: Big Lebowski (the acting is universally brilliant in this film - it's one of the five funniest movies I have ever seen), The Man Who Wasn't There (Thornton's performance in this movie is superb) and Barton Fink. O Brother Where Art Thou isn't really a great movie but it's a decent one and the music is so wonderful, it's probably enough to put it up with their best.
Jennifer Jason Leigh Needs No Proxy
Steve, I am so with you. An absolutely bang-on (including the accent), manic, insanely good performance that complemented the hell out of the one Tim Robbins gave.
"Hudsucker" is right up there for me with "Miller's Crossing," "Raising Arizona," and "Blood Simple." A movie lover's movie.
D.
I must disagree on "Hudsucker Proxy." Leigh is doing a nearly perfect send up of the Rosalind Russell/Barbara Stanwyck/Katherine Hepburn, fast-talking, emancipated woman of the 1940s. Just as Tim Robbins is mocking the wide-eyed Jimmy Stewart/Gary Cooper character. Maybe you guys haven't seen "His Girl Friday," "Philadelphia Story" or "Bringing Up Baby," but the women in those films are clearly the inspiration for Leigh's performance in "Hudsucker Proxy." The dialog is also a very good approximation of Howard Hawks-esque stichomythia with a slightly modern edge. That's what makes the movie work. I'm really afraid you guys may have missed the heart of the movie if you don't see the charm of Ms. Leigh's performance. My advice is to watch two or three Rosalind Russell Movies and then to watch "Hudsucker Proxy" again to see the brilliance of Leigh's performance.
I agree with Rick. Leigh has been fine in many roles but she just ruins Hudsucker Proxy. In fact, I consider that the single worst performance in an otherwise good movie I have ever seen. Proxy starts off brilliantly - the first 15 or 20 minutes are as good as anything the Coens have done. Then Leigh walks on screen and the movie stops dead in its tracks. Any time she's on cmera, the movie is just this side of unwatchable. Proxy has fine moments and amazing set design but is the weakest of their films.
And if you want to see a good film in theaters, check out Touching the Void if it's playing near you. It's sometimes an uncomfortable hybrid of documentary and docudrama but the overall experience is rather powerful and humbling.
Stealing Music
Why is it ok to check a book out of the library and read it, but not ok to download an MP3?
Since you'll hardly ever read most books more than once, you're "copying" the book for all intents and purposes, sucking all the value out of it that might have gone to the author and it didn't cost you anything.
And I AM NOT pouting,...
Who again?
Apparently my question was lost amid the general hubub, so I'll
ask again and assure everyone that I am indeed serious --
Does anyone know whether Harlan still enjoys the UK s-f teevee
series DOCTOR WHO? He wrote an introductions for the US
paperback line in the mid- late-'70s, in which he raved (RAVED
I tell you) about the series, introduced to *him* by none other
than Michael Moorcock. As we all know, HE does not enclose his
endorsements free inside boxes of Breez, or Quaker Oats Sparkies,
so he must have been sincere in his praise.
Adding to my curiousity is that, under the loving guiding hand
of Russell T. Davies, DOCTOR WHO is coming back to teevee in '05,
and I wondered if Harlan had any thoughts on THAT.
Or we can all keep ignoring me and I can settle down to the
obvious fact that my day at Webderland has come and gone...
Cheers,
Doc
the SAGs are on right now
One Andrew Marotta note can surely make up for a lot of icky postings. I think.
Frank
You know we're just busting on you; Rob told me to do it.
Respectfully,
Neal
Jennifer Jason...huh?
I must be the only person here who thought Jennifer Jason Leigh was the absolute worst thing about THE HUDSUCKER PROXY. I thought she stunk it up so badly she damn near ruined what was otherwise a perfectly serviceable movie (although honestly not one of the Cohen brothers' best efforts). Leigh is good at playing a range of characters and at expressing raw emotion, but I don't get any subtext or real depth from her performances.
In movies like GEORGIA (which was a good movie, hampered mainly by the fact that whoever edited it let both the music scenes and the histrionic arguments run WAY too long) and SINGLE WHITE FEMALE, this is masked by the fact that her roles are of the "open a vein" emotional expression type. But when playing a comic AND character role, as in HUDSUCKER, she's flat. Look at two of the Cohen brothers' more popular character actors: John Turturro and John Goodman. They play some of the most ridiculous characters (Jesus and Walter in THE BIG LEBOWSKI, Pete and Big Dan in O BROTHER) you've ever seen, yet you can believe in these characters because the ACTORS believe in them and imbue them with a reality that I don't see Leigh as capable of.
Hell, even look at Tim Robbins, who makes a completely stereotypical country bumpkin role practically sing. Leigh does a credible job, even an admirable one, with all the elements of her role - but I just don't think she belongs on the same screen with the rest of the crew in HUDSUCKER. Just my opinion, but I don't see her as investing her roles with the necessary substance. I classify her as a talented and versatile but definitely second-tier actor for this reason.
Jennifer Jason Leigh
DTS:
I think it was Brian Michael Bendis who said that Jennifer Jason Leigh had given the performance of a decade at least a dozen times, but that few people noticed because she inhabited her roles so completely.
I happen to agree. She made a movie called GEORGIA about the untalented, alcoholic sister of a famous singer (herself played by Mare Winningham), who is determined to achieve stardom herself. Leigh, whose singing talent is non-existent, nailed her performance as the sunstance-abuser whose personal melodrama sucks the life out of every relationship around her. The centerpiece of the film is a long eight-minute sequence where her character takes stage at one of her sister's concerts, and belts out a truly horrible solo, investing her voice with every ounce of pain in her soul, but not even remotely succeeding at making music. It's train-wreck powerful, and one of the most searing pieces of film acting I've ever seen. (Seek out GEORGIA. See it. Marvel at that sequence. Gaah.)
Leigh has played prostitutes a number of times, which has led to some carping criticism that she plays the same character over and over, but really: there's no similarity between the roles she plays in MIAMI BLUES and, let's say, LAST EXIT TO BROOKLYN. Nor are there any similarities in her long roster of performances as substance abusers. She's one of those character actors like the equally astounding Stephen Lang who produces an incredible body of versatile and memorable work, but who remains almost unrecognizable due to the completely different set of tools asnd mannerisms she brings to each role.
And yes, I include her performance as a cartoon of Hepburn in HUDSUCKER PROXY. It showed that she has a great talent for comedy that she rarely gets to use because of the emotional intensity that makes her so perfect in more serious work.
* Re Lang: yeah, he is another one. You know
how many movies he was in before I realized
he was the same guy? And how many different
acting styles? One of the many reasons I mourn
the Tim Daly version of THE FUGITIVE is that
Lang's performance as The One-Armed Man who
killed Richard Kimble's wife was a truly
chilling one, which lent that version of the
show suspense even greater than that which
marked prior incarnations.
When you ASSUME you make an ASS of U and ME
To the webmaster: Yes, those stupid, insulting yog-sogoth posts came from the same computer I used to send my post ( a different computer than the one I'm using now, by the way), but they were not sent by me. The man who did send them, who has a hell of a lot ogf growing up to do still, did not have my permission to do so.. I apologize for him, and maybe somone owes me an apology for assuming that I am him, when I ain't.Also, I didn't mean to send the same post to Cindy more than once, but perhaps I was more upset then I should have been about her jocular attitude toward a part of my life that I can find very little humor in, so I angrily punched the "submit" button more than once, which I admit was stupid, however I really didn't mean any harm by it. Anyway, if yog-sogoth... oh, hell, his name is GEORGE COHEN... ever get's near Harlan's Website again, I'lll rip his fingers, all nine of them (don't ask), out of their sockets. Are we now, to use the vernacular, cool, as I hope we are?
Been a nice day till I look at all these posts from hell. Don't blame Harlan if he decides to stay away for a while.
The hackers collective must be in session. Sigh.
-------------
Downloading music is fine, as long as you do not sell it, or go beyond your own use. Most downloader's buy the cd anyway.
What scares the musicians and the record companies is the possibility that someone can preview every new song before buying. Would greatly help the world get rid of the Britney Spears crap.
---------------
Deb, give me a hug?
Nothing in particular
CINDY: How in the name of Darwin does someone get a message through to you via email? EVERY time I try, I ALWAYS get rejected ('course, maybe your email is trying to tell me something you are too polite to convey).
FILMS: Just watched "The Hudsucker Proxy" again last night. One of my favorite Coen bros. films (actually, I like all of them, but "Raising Arizona" and "O, Brother Where Art Thou," like "Proxy," rate high). And does anyone else think that Jennifer Jason Leigh -- who does a simply BRILLIANT job of parodying Catherine Hepburn -- is sadly underrated as an actress?
--DTS
A message of thanks to Mr. Ellison
Mr. Ellison,
My wife found your website, and I have just finished listening to your readings of stories on CD, and wanted to thank you for sharing such wonderful words.
I have been blind since I was eight years old, and have only found four of your stories in Standard Braille, but had heard one of a friend's old HERC recordings and enjoyed it.
You have readers even among those who cannot read, Mr. Ellison, so thank you.
Law of First Sale
PAB,
I wanted to answer the question you posed in this post:
"I respect copyrights as much as the next guy, and support Harlan's fight. However, I can't afford to buy all the books I want at the price the author wants to for them (or maybe it's the price at which the publisher wants to sell them?). As a result, I buy a lot of used books. How does that jibe with the above philosophy? I'm going to say it doesn't, but it's not stealing either."
The answer is actually part of the copyright law, which has a provision called First Sale. The copyright holders rights to an actual copy of his or her book only attaches to the first sale of said copy. The copyright holder gets his/her royalty from the first sale of that copy. It DOES NOT cover any subsequent sale. But the copyright law also allows resale of such copies.
In other words, if you buy a copy of one of Harlan's books, you can resell that copy to a friend or a used book store without violating any copyright, because the copyright in that single copy stops with the first sale. In the same way, the used book store -- or eBay or whatever -- can resell that used copy without violating any copyright.
Okay, I admit I'm a public defender by profession, not an intellectual property lawyer, but that is, I believe, the way the copyright law works on resale of a book (or record or VHS or DVD or whathave you) that has been lawfully purchased once.
This shouldn't be confused with "coverless" copies of books. These were never sold legitimately. They were reported as returned to the publisher by the vender for a credit and then illegally resold to a wholesaler. As there wasn't a legitimate first sale, buying these books does violate the copyright of the copyright holder.
Bob Ingersoll
Harlan and fellow Webderlanders: A few dvds I would heartily reccomend to anyone: BOWLING FOR COLUMBINE, THE DEVIL AND DANIEL WEBSTER, MARRIED WITH CHILDREN (yes, it's raunchy and vulgar, but still funny, damn it!), THE ADVENTURES OF ROBIN HOOD, THE THIEF OF BAGDAD (Harlan, these last two titles have eye-poppingly beautiful Technicolor film to video transfers and you can't go wrong with either of them), YANKEE DOODLE DANDY, THE TREASURE OF THE SIERRA MADRE (I'm still searching for the B.Traven Regency Books paperback anthology you edited, sir, which has a typically excellent histrionic Ellison title),NIGHTMARE IN BLOOD (a fan-produced vampire film that isn't nearly as bad as you might expect, and probably the only film to use newsreel footage of Holocaust victims in what is basically 42nd Street 3:00 AM triple feature fodder), and the list goes on. ON A DIFFERENT SUBJECT: One of the old STAR TREK cartoons, "Yesteryear," by Dorothy Fontana, used your Guardian of Forever character. Does the original writer who first introduces a guest character in any tv episode of any series receive payment if another writer uses that character again later? I hope so, anyway. This is my first post, so please forgive me if any of it seems elementary, or obvious> I still feeling my way along, you know? Theres's no reason in the world why you should remember the incidents, but you were extremely kind to me at three conventions, one in New YOrk in *81 when you were still on good terms with that weasel Gary Groth, plus New York, again, in 85, and Philly in either 91 or 92. So ... with a great deal of affection, and with my condolences on the death of Mr. Julius Schwartz, and until William Shatner gets a wig that dosen't look like a dead stuffed tribble nailed to his head... see you later!
The majority of iTunes albums are $9.99. Most have more that 10 tracks. Of course, there are plenty of exceptions and incomplete albums. Besides, Apple admits the music store isn't about selling music. It's about seling iPods.
>This goes doubly for CDs, by the way, which to my mind are flagrantly overpriced.<
Not only CDs, but the much-heralded Itunes is charging a buck a song. That's $12-$15 bucks an album, and the industry is not spending on manufacture, packaging, shipping, or retail overhead. Someone is making a nice buck on this, and it's not pricing that will stop music piracy.
Books: I read one e-book on my Palm as an experiment, "The Graduate" by Charles Webb. I'd already read it long ago, but it came with my Palm software. Even with its short little sentences, I found it unbearable. I personally don't think the Internet is much of a threat to book sales. Even downloaded short stories, steamed off a copier and stapled like a high-school report, are awkward to read comfortably. I have several digital subscriptions to magazines, and I won't renew them in that manner, because it's too tiring to read off a screen, and running printouts on a laserjet isn't much better.
M: Did you enjoy Series 7? All comparisons to King's Running Man novel aside, I found it be quite enjoyable -- not great, but certainly a good piece of work.
Pros: I was just watching Sunset Boulevard again, finishing a couple of minutes ago. For one thing, Billy Wilder moves up on my subjective list of great directors whenever I screen one of his movies again. But for a second, William Holden again strikes me as being a terrific movie star 'type' actor who was true whenever I've seen him in a really solid movie (Kwai, Blvd., Stalag 17, to name three). No, you never forget you're watching Holden -- but he gets the characters he's playing. He nails them. And as goofy as it sounds, I really like Holden because of it, because of that quality. I like Bogart, I like Gable -- but there's something Holden does when he's at top form that's really neat.
Sorry to gush, Jon
The good master insomnia has checked in; if it holds as per usual, I at least have "The Contenders - Series Seven", and "Adaptation" to look forward to.
But, that an hour off.
Ownership of material is one of those debates that always interests me, largely for the case of semantics that becomes involved in the debate. Sorry, but I don't see a cut and dried answer to the problem, except in the issue of artist royalties. In that area, I support the creative force's ownership over the work, plain and simple, and all the financial benefit they can derive.
Where it get thorny for me is the middlemen; the publishers, executives, salesmen, etc., all of those who derive gain from being the conduit between artist and the consuming public in the marketplace. To what extent are they entitled to what they receive from what is essentially the product of the creative mind, and should their be any controls placed upon their part of the process? To further complicate matters, how easily could the artist make the connection to the public without their efforts, as the jobs that they due obviously free up the time to create. I'd hate to be Harlan if he'd not only had to write the story, but set the type, proof the galleys, bind the book, then market it, get it from the press to the bookstore, and then promote it. Christ, he has enough on his hands as is.
Of course, one could see the other side. If my memory serves, Harlan's had numerous running battles with publishers, to get and then maintain his work in print, not to mention legal frays over pirated material in print, long before the question of infringment had gotten him onto his quest to become the St. George of the internet, a lance squarely poised to target the chest of the dragon AOL. (I imagine there's somewhere else he'd like to stick it, but I'll leave that to Sir Ellison, Lord Mensch of all he surveys).
Still, does the act of piracy of the publisher entitle us to do same? I understand the motive of "two wrongs not making it right, but damn sure do make it even", but I can't subscribe to the motion if someone gets to hungry or penniless as a result. And, the mythos of the writer being rich becaus his/her name's on the jacket is simply that. I know many authors who have a hellish time making a living JUST WRITING, without having to supplement their income with outside work to stay financially afloat. To me, justifying the theft from an author or musician by arguing that the corporation is stealing from them is ludicrous. I see it this way: both the downloader and the company are robbing the artist at gunpoint, then using the writer/musician as a human shield to make their getaway.
I guess the idyll would be in the creative mind's control of the entirety of the process, with all who bridge the gap between author/artist and their audience under the thumb of those who make what we see, read and listen to. In Hollywood, one sees the Spielbergs, Coppollas and Lucases have the right idea by becoming owners of the means of production (proof that Karl Marx is alive and well, and shacked up with a Penthouse centerfold in Van Nuys). More control translates into more revenues in the hands of those that made them. Pity authors and musicians couldn't take a few lessons in that respect. Perhaps the idea of co-operative networks, where the artist/authors could pool resources, in order to take firmer control of the machinery of the process, and thereby earn more for themselves.
As for me, I've no problem buying used books or CDs. In fact, I haunt Deja Vu Discs and Gnu Books religiously, to the point where I'm on a first name basis with most of their staffs. The books, CDs and DVDs I purchase been bought once before, therefore the author has been paid royalties based on initial sale. The logic of repeated royalties for resale would be somewhat spurious in my estimation. Should one pay royalties again if they reread a book they own, or every time they put on an album?
M
I see your point. The way I understand it, when you buy a book, you're buying a physical object. You can do anything you want with it (burn it, sell it on ebay) because you own it. You don't own the intellectual property - the contents - so you can't publish it (on the Internet or elsewhere).
Quick change of subject: Does anyone remember an old story (I think it was in F&SF) that had to do with something called "copyfish?"
Alex Krislov said, "As for me, I believe if I value something enough to have a copy, I should value it enough to respect the way the owner and/or creator set things up in order to provide me with a copy. That means, paying the price they've arranged."
I respect copyrights as much as the next guy, and support Harlan's fight. However, I can't afford to buy all the books I want at the price the author wants to for them (or maybe it's the price at which the publisher wants to sell them?). As a result, I buy a lot of used books. How does that jibe with the above philosophy? I'm going to say it doesn't, but it's not stealing either.
This goes doubly for CDs, by the way, which to my mind are flagrantly overpriced. Thank god for eBay.
PAB
"If you can make a movie, you can do just about anything."
But, if you can make a GOOD movie, then congratulations! You're a fucking GOD!
Why?
Some awfully provocative posts this past 24 hrs...
Why?
Some awfully provocative posts this past 24 hrs...
King In Yellow
To Infomite and the redoubtable Jay Smith -- thank'ee, thank'ee,
thank'ee! I've been trying to get a line on that story since,
roughly, 1997. Talk about a tale giving you sleepless nights!
Rick -- Apologies for the double post last night/this morning.
I've been away for awhile. At least they were short. I do like
what you've done with the place, and the atmosphere is much
more refreshing than my last look at the other board. I hope
things remain cool here...
And for the Deetster (DTS), there's an unavoidable level of
assinignity on any of the boards/forums; contrariwise, it isn't
really fair to expect the new folks to know the answers to
questions that old hands like you and I can answer in a deep
sleep. So go easy on the young'uns, 'kay? Wiat 'til they're
actually uppity...
Apropos of nothing, does anyone know if HE is still the enthu-
siast of DOCTOR WHO that he once was?
Cheers,
Doc
Apologies to all
if my old roommate's shenanigans reached into your pants and gave you a virtual wedgie (hey, to steal a thought from Dave Barry, wouldn't that be a great name for a rock band? Virtual Wedgie?). Yes, he really is my old roommate from Transylvania University, class of gawdhelpus 1975. No college punk, he. We're in our fifties. But he was trying to twist tails, and find an unual way of hailing me from across the room. I truly didn't recognize him as a result. Honestly, friends, when he isn't playing dress-up and dancing nude in the Reflecting Pool with Wilbur Mills and the dames, he's a class act. I've told him about the architecture of manners here, and I hope he'll return in more formal attire next time.
Rick, nice job on the new rules. I will stay within them So Help Me, Elvis. You have a hard job here, and you do it well. We shouldn't make it harder.
Teak, I'm sure you'll be crushed flat by many here, but to be blunt and brief: we've heard every concievable excuse for copyright theft in these parts. They're all rationales, they're all bullshipping, and you'll find few who'll buy into them in these parts. As for me, I believe if I value something enough to have a copy, I should value it enough to respect the way the owner and/or creator set things up in order to provide me with a copy. That means, paying the price they've arranged.
Anything else is self-serving bongwater. Maybe you like drinking that stuff, but don't serve it up to us and tell us it's a fine claret.
--Alex
>But wasn't it Welles who also said, "If you can make a movie, you can do just about anything."?<
Yes, but I'll follow Marlon over Orson any day....
No, it doesn't. The fiction of downloading opponents is that downloading copyrighted materials is equivalent to, say, stealing a hat from the mall. What makes stealing that hat wrong is--at least in part, if not in sum--that you are denying them the opportunity to sell it to someone else. You aren't just denying them the benefit of your sell; you're actively inflicting injury.
Downloading song is great for many reasons. First, it allows the music fan who's been ripped off continually by record company collusion and artificially inflated CD prices. Second, in a time of increasing media concentration, downloading levels the playing field for musicians. A song by the Causey Way or Louis Philippe is just as easy to get as a song by talentless skankmeister Courtney Love. And even if I don't pay for those songs, I may buy a t-shirt or a concert. Or maybe I'll decide I like it enough to buy the better-sounding CD copy. Downloading's force as an instrument of progressive evolution in the music business is too often overlooked.
The other big fiction is that artists are the ones perpetrating the anti-downloader legal barrage. Pure nonsense. Yes, the occasional big name artist with a decent deal (a tiny, tiny minority among working musicians) complain to the press. But for the most part it's the RIAA, looking to protect corporate profits as much as when they rip off artists in royalty deals. They know they have to hide behind the artists because corporations are so universally hated and almost any sin perpetrated agaisnt them is justified.
Now I'm not saying these observations apply to books/stories. They take enough time to experience that it's unlikely someone can undiscriminately sample new people. What's more, the percentage of the reading public that wants to read from their laptops has gotta be miniscule. Nabokov, to pick a name, needs to be carted around the house--I can't stop reading The Gift because I want to spread out on the couch. What's more, I'm under the impression that authors have much more say in their publishers' actions, and get (comparatively) good deals. That said, it does suck that some dope in New York who got into Yale because she's a legacy gets to filter what we read. Cowardice and stupidity among publishers kept even an amazing book like Hogg--by an author with an established track record, no less--off the shelves for 20 years.
How's it coming with the fight against the copyright infringers? On some show, they asked Ted Nugent (I can't believe I'm going to quote Ted Nugent) what he thought about downloading free music from the internet. He said, "It seems to me, if you have a song in one hand and don't have a receipt in the other, then you're stealing."
Sums it up pretty well, doesn't it?
I'm curious to get a bit of info on HERC, having read the blurb regarding subscription elsewhere at the site:
The $8.00 is for one year, correct? What about multiple year subscriptions? Is it the same price, or less? What is one entitled to for membership?
Sorry, new here, and looking to save a buck. A pension goes only so far.
Yours in penuriousness, M
At last night's meeting of the Philadelphia Science Fiction Society, Saul Snitkin made a brief announcement about the passing of Julie Schwartz. Happily, I had a copy of Harlan's obituary, which included an address for donations to the scholarship fund, so the results of the evening's hat-pass ought to turn up there fairly soon.
Nice to feel useful, but Saul was the guy who made the announcement.
Of mice and (wo)men
All--
My friend Vince just won a $3 million dollar lottery in Mississippi. He gets $3 a year for 1,000,000 years....(that is a joke unless Trent Lott or Marion Barry are reading this.)
Harlan--
You are, of course, correct about Rob't Aikman. I read "The Swords" last p.m. Very nice. Why did it take me so long to get to him?
Frank--
My sister lives in Las Vegas, I will warn her. (Please note: I am just joking. She can fend for herself.)
Cindy--
You crack me up.
Also read Fritz Leiber's "The Power of the Puppets" (pub 1941); that one stayed with me all day. Told my twelve year-old daughter about it and she wants to read it. I read "Neon" when I was 12. I bought her ~The October Country~ (Ray Bradbury) today as well.....here we go with the dangerous visions.
note to the feckless--
"Ignorance is the mother of devotion."
—Jeremy Taylor: To a Person newly Converted (1657).
feeling superior, but not omnipotent,
Kneel
Kathy
Please cease and desist, Kathy. The ten posts in a row you made to Cindy (who was obviously making a joke that you had to be talking about her since SHE is the most beautiful woman in the world), as well as the two posts you made under Yog-Sogoth which insulted Harlan directly, have been removed. Since you did not include an e-mail address on any of them I have not returned them to you.
You are allowed to post here ONCE per day, no matter how many Lovecraftian aliases you choose to use. I will be shortly posting and linking a set of rules, as it's become clear that many people who visit here give the ones that are posted only a cursory glance and then promptly forget them.
AOL lawsuit
HARLAN: This will sound ignorant, but having never been involved in court proceededings, and never having the need (writing-wise) to investigate the workings of the process, can you tell me (now that the 9th Circuit's judgement has come down) if you have an idea when your case against AOL will be put before a jury?
ALL: Having been part of the problem in the past week regarding shenanigans that had absolutely nothing to do with Ellison's work (dicussions about politics, jibes against nameless posters), and having realized that it was more annoying than I first thought, I find myself feeling all the more uncomfortable when I look around and see that the Pavilion is suddenly getting crowded with silly and annoying questions to Harlan (i.e., Forrest Ackerman and smoking -- and I won't dignify the most egregious example below).
CINDY: Time to put up or shut up, baby. Just about everyone else has made their visage available to all of us -- heck even Rick displayed that swarthy photo of himself in a soccer uniform. Let us see that kisser that Harlan waxed charming over.
--DTS
FRANK: Where in Vegas are you moving? We have been thinking about buying a place there!!! We wanna make sure we don't end up too close to you...
***Did you work in a casino?
Well Kathy,
That's really flattering, but I'm married.
Cindy
WHY???
Why do you despise forrest j. ackerman?
Stephen,
Thanks for the help...unfortunately, it requires that I read my mailing label from an issue....but I don't save these. Too much dust collecting in my home; I read them then toss them. I'll have to wait until my next issue comes, usually Monday....by then, I suppose I won't need to read Harlan's tribute online as it will be in that issue.
Thanks for the help though! Good info for future reference.
-TODD
query from a queer
How do you tellthe most beautiful woman in the world that you are in love with her when you,YOURSELF, are also a female? Or should I just give up and reach for the cyanide?
Doc -
I believe "More Light" is available in the Chaosium collection "The Hastur Cycle" and yes, it is very good.
Troublemakers for Middle School Readers
Dear Mr. Ellison,
Thank you for your recommendation of The Troublemakers for middle school readers. My son is in 7th grade and he is enjoying the book to the extent that he bypasses his alloted time on the Playstation II. He has positive comments about the stories and so far has especially enjoyed the second one.
I regret that I cannot permit him to come on this board and give you feedback himself; several of the posts from others have not been, unfortunately, appropriate for younger guests.
Thank you again for the excellent recommendation.
Respectfully yours,
Suzette Cowan, representing Chad Cowan
Seduction of the Innocent
Harlan: I hope you'll agree with me that one of the ugliest sights on the planet is the vision of extremely young, wide-eyed, pre-pubescent, trusting, innocent little children ... smoking cigarettes!! I see it more often than you might expect, and it's something that makes me sad and angry at the same time. What can be done? Any ideas, sir?
cosmis jokes
I just saw THE OSCAR>>you were only kidding, right?
identity crisis
mr. ellison, sir: i am very new to this website and your art deco dining pavillion. i find most of it quite fascinating, but... who are you? obviously some sort of fine writer, but might i please have some background?
Will be moving back to Las Vegas very very soon, so all you webheads who live in the west; I am getting oh so closer.
::SCARY MUSIC PLAYS--A CREAK OF AN OLD DOOR::
---------------
According to Henry Rollins--who recently did his spoken word on a USO tour to Afghanistan--he asked upper military brass about the true causes of the war, they implied that it was mainly for oil and the Unocal pipeline.
This from the military. Once again, Bush is toast.
Ask, and Sometimes Ye Receives
"More Light", by James Blish can be found in: _Alchemy & Academe_, ed. Anne McCaffrey, Garden City, NY: Doubleday 1970
You're welcome,
infomite
Info
As we are among the wise and informed, here, can someone -- be he
HE or not -- tell me where I can find a James Blish story called,
"More Light"? It's riffs on the King In Yellow, and it's a REAL
hair-raiser. So why can't I remember where I saw it or find it
elsewhere?!?!
Help!
Cheers,
Doc
RELOCATION
Just a zap to Unca Harlan -- I didn't want to impinge on your
busy schedule, but I'VE MOVED! No, I'm no longer at that
sociological experiment of a residence hotel over on Westlake,
I've moved to the Valley. My old number should give you my new
number, but if I don't hear from you soon, I'll bite the bullet
and give you a jingle. Hope all is well 'round Ellison
Wonderland.
Cheers,
Doc
getting to CBG issues on the Krause site
Harlan et al,
First, my apologies for the tech support riff that follows. But I thought it was worth it if it helps one of the faithful get to see the great Schwartz tribute.
Now, Todd,
If you're logged into the Krause site, get to the main page for CBG. On yer right you should see a box titled My Corner. Third choice down is View Online Issues. Click on that. You'll then see a list of available subscriptions. Select Comics Buyer's Guide and on the right-hand side you'll have the option to view available issues either as html or pdf files. Once you pick a format, you'll see several pages to go through. The issue you want is on page 3, dated 030504.
If that doesn't give you any joy (sometimes the service is down while Krause makes updates and such), email me and we'll see if we can figure it out without interrupting anyone's dining pavilion pleasure.
Hope that helps. Course you probably got your hard copy ish in the mail today, huh?
Best,
Steve
Harlan's Tribute To Julius in CBG
Can someone help me locate this tribute on the Comic Buyer's Guide website? I'm a subscriber, and I'm logged in, but I can't figure out where to look!
Thanks. -TODD
Nebulas
HARLAN: Heck, I dunno. I accurately described my question as idle curiosity, since I'm not attending.
Were Judi and I going (and as I said, family obligations make it impossible), it would be as much to visit the sights of the Pacific Northwest as to deal with the Nebula ceremonies.
(Apropos of naught: I never go to any of these things thinking I'm gonna win. Ever. I pick one of the other nominees in my category and tell myself, as forcefully as possible, that s/he's the winner. I have enough folks telling me (inaccurately, so far) that I'm a sure thing that I really don't need to pysch myself out being one of them. And when I lose (reliably, so far, and not always to my projected "favorite"), the overwhelming emotion is RELIEF that I don't have to think about it anymore.
(That said, the chief argument in favor of this being MY YEAR is my non-attendance.)
Not sure YOU'RE right about losing, however...ATC.
Just A Movie
Eric,
But wasn't it Welles who also said, "If you can make a movie, you can do just about anything."?
Jon A. Bell's Jesus riffs remind me that there's a cute song in the Stephen Fry movie, "Bright Young Things," that is sung by a girl's choir traveling with an American evangelist played by Stockard Channing (loosely modeled on Aimee Semple MacPherson), which is titled "Ain't No Flies on the Lamb of God." It's reprised in its entirety during the credits. Very tongue in cheek, rather Python-esque. Lyrics by Fry, of course.
My review of the new Schickle documentary about Chaplin is up live, here:
http://www.documentaryfilms.net/Reviews/Charlie/
Harlan,
Thanks for responding to my request for your weird fiction faves. There are a few writers you mentioned that I am not familiar with. I'll try and find some of their works and will give them a read. I'm currently reading a collection of CAS's letters to George Sterling, Lovecraft, Donald Wandrei, Samuel Loveman, and others. Fascinating stuff. The H.L Mencken/CAS connection intrigued me. I had no idea that HLM read or even knew about Smith's stuff. Also finished a book of Lovecraft and Wandrei's letters to each other. Jeezus, those guys were brilliant.
ADAM-TROY:
Don't know if I'm going. What with the aOL suit and all, it'd cost about a grand for Susan and me to fly to seattle for the Nebulas. Not to mention, losing in front of all those people would make the expenditure doubly extravagant and moot.
But I really AM musing over it. Any thots, mon ami?
Harlan
You're pulling our leg with some of those, Infoman. And even with some that in principle are true, they're still false. For example: #10---not wood, but plaster; and #23---not because it takes more calories to eat, but that we can't digest the cellulose in the plant.
However, I can absolutely guarantee you that they ain't all that important.
Keeping it straight and real,
rich
Oh, and I did what Dan suggested and I like the one where HE is a "usual hoot".
Googlism.com
Here's something fun. Go to Googlism.com and type in Harlan Ellison
30 IMPORTANT THINGS YOU PROBABLY DIDN'T KNOW
(Removed this as it was copied in bulk from one of about 500 pages on the Internet with one of these lists. Replacing it with a link. - Ed)
http://mycollections2.tripod.com/kiddo/id20.html
(This information was brought to you by the Dept. of notsoworthwile pursuits and Leisure-time Misnomers, Inc., makers of Texas Trivial Pursuit, Alabama Scrabble, and the Atheist's Bible).
As Marlon Brando once said, to a director who was careening into panic on a set: "it's just a movie."
Jon A. Bell,
That was beautiful, man.
Washu,
Sadly, it's pretty well documented (such as in "New York Times Magazine") that Mel Gibson's father is kind of...eccentric in his views. Quite sad, really - Mel Gibson appears to be kind of a hardcore pre-Vatican II Catholic, but you can tell in interviews that his father makes him more than a bit squirmy.
Regards,
Joseph
This Jesus-chat reminds me of a short poem I wrote a long time ago. Might've been high school, probably college, but it's one of the few things I wrote that I can actually quote from memory.
"Jesus can satisfy
any woman he wants to.
He can jump tall buildings like Superman
and spin webs like Spiderman.
He maketh me lie down beside sheep
and I am grateful."
In honor of Mel Gibson's
Okay, it's Friday, I'm in a weird mood, and I want to make people laugh here. So, since we're about to be subjected to Mel Gibson's ultra-violent "The Passion of the Christ" film, I thought we could all celebrate its release in our own special Webderland way.
Below are the lyrics to a song that a twisted friend of mine and I wrote several years ago. Basically, it's our own version of "Jesus Christ, Superstar" -- but sung to the theme from the 1960's cartoon version of "Spider-Man." All together, now!
Jesus Christ -- Superstar!
Are you who people say you are?
Did you hang from a cross?
Next to God -- You’re the Boss!
Hey there -- Jesus, Superstar!
Is he strong?
Listen, bud -–
He turned wine -- into blood!
Fed a crowd -- with a dish!
Of some bread -- and some fish!
Hey there -- Jesus, Superstar!
He can break some bread --
He can wash peoples’ feet!
12 of his best friends --
Think that he’s really neat!
Jesus Christ… Superstar!
Messiah is -- who you are!
Did he rise -- from the dead?
Take a look overhead!
Hey there --
Life is a great big bang-up,
Wherever there’s a hang-up,
You’ll find the Jesus Maaannnn!
[alternate 4th stanza]
Jesus Christ, Superstar
Messiah is – who you are!
Next to him, you can’t lose!
Son of God – King of Jews!
Hey there –
[etc.]
Well, that's another 18.35 eternities in Hell for me. Enjoy!
-- Jon
Harlan,
I just about turned your nook into a frat. I will not let that happen again. I replaced the pillows I busted in your den and reupholstered your 200-year-old antique settee, which I'd soiled badly (did all the work myself. I may not have known what I was doing but it was a job done with LOVE. I just wouldn’t try sitting on it any more. But it LOOKS fine)
Nobody Knows
Hi, I must be a crazy person too, having shelled out for the Traven. I notice abebooks.com does have a few VG at $50 today.
But I don't feel crazy...
The Treasure of Evanston, Illinois
A partial answer to the B. Traven question is this. Back in October 1961 [copyright dates can be misleading and the gestation period may have been awhile] while Harlan was performing half of his editorial duties at 1580 Sherman Avenue for Regency Books he brought into print a collection titled STORIES BY THE MAN NOBODY KNOWS. Or "The Man Nobody Knows" if you go by the spine.
This is Regency #107 with a cover by Ron Bradford. It was released just after Harlan's 2nd Regency title, MEMOS FROM PURGATORY. I don't know if Regency would release one title at a time or two or six and as I type this sentence I ask myself who cares anyway? It's perhaps useful to note that ALL jacket copy and flyleaf matter was written by Harlan. With the Traven book that's about a page and a half. Put all that together and you have a chapbook right there, albeit a chapbook that only crazy people need to own. Hi Doug. Hi Tim. The collection is 9 stories;
The Third Guest
Burro Training
Tin Can
Midnight Call
Frustration
When the Priest is Not at Home
Submission
Effective Medicine
Assembly Line
Copyright dates range from 1953 - 1961. No original appearances are cited but with Ziff-Davis holding a few of the copyrights there had to be some prior magazine appearances. I would check the contents of this against the other Traven collection I have upstairs and see if there is anything in my copy of THE SEARCH FOR B. TRAVEN but all that came later. Certainly Harlan's editing of this collection made this stuff available in one place for the first and perhaps only time. How Harlan went about all of this is something he may or may not share.
Good luck finding a copy of this. I think $75.00 for a VG copy might get you in the door. That's IF you could find one. There are no easy Regency titles to find. Between the low print runs, the great covers, the lousy distribution [are there more in the midwest than on either coast?] and the authors themselves [Ellison, Thompson, Bloch, Farmer, DelRey etc.] they get snapped up instantly. Some of the rarest paperbacks I own I acquired by trading half a case of Farmer's FIRE AND THE NIGHT over 20 years. Now I wish I had kept the box. For all I know the shipping label was written by Harlan. ;-)
And I'm spent...
- Barney Dannelke
Harlan, I know you were in a dark place because of Julie, so I apologize to you for being childish lately. That Kentucky guy really peeved me, but it was no excuse for being meely of soul. Hope we all can have cheerier days ahead.
---------
How about that star being torn apart by the black hole? Astounding stuff. Makes me feel rather small. When I think about the stretch of the known universe it is rather scary. We all think we are real hot potatoes, but in reality, we are mere specks of offal.
Sometimes, I want to hide underneath my covers.
-------------
Next week, Mel Gibson and Prince will be on the same Jay Leno show. Sounds wild.
------------
Wyatt, how about a chat room? That way, if we want to rant and act like infants, we can. Just an idea.
O.K. I'm visiting the internet movie database, when I stumble across this little news item on the main menu:
"Mel Gibson's father Hutton has launched a blistering attack on the Jewish religion - just days before his son's controversial film THE PASSION OF THE CHRIST is released in America. Catholic extremist Hutton, 85, claims the Holocaust never happened and accuses Jews of conspiring to take over the world. According to British tabloid The Daily Express, Hutton ranted to an American radio station, "They are after one world religion and one world government." Mad Max star Mel has faced uproar from the Jewish community amidst claims his film - about the last few hours of Jesus Christ's life - is anti-Semitic. Christian Mel has always denied the film is racist towards Jewish people and says he hold great respect towards the religion."
Whether Mel is anti-Semitic or not seems strangely irrelevant right now. I mean, in all honesty, who would care to have a father like this? Thanks so frickin' much, Dad.
Then again, we ARE talking about a tabloid, and a British one at that, so let's just see what happens...
Harlan, as you may recall, I've done a couple stories in the past on the case for the "Paraclete" and am toying with doing an update due to the recent appellate decision. You mentioned in an earlier post that some reporters have contacted you and I was wondering if you could point me to any published reports so I could pull some quotes. If you're not sure off the top of your head, please don't spend any time checking as I can use the appellate decision as the basis for my article. Thanks in advance.
March 18
In the midst of renovating this apartment for Mardi Gras visitors, under my wife's wise and patient and tireless tutelage, I find I need to add a quick post:
First, Mike Friedrich tells me that a special tribute to Julie Schwartz will be held in New York on March 18. I would give a limb to go, but if anyone else is there, I would love details. Harlan, I would love to read your eulogy for Julie -- is there someplace that could happen?
I'm hoping to run short eulogies in the Noreascon 4 program book for some of the great SF people who've passed this year. It'll hurt to talk about Julie.
Second, on a squalid real-world political note, I can't begudge Democrats any nastiness they send in the direction of George W, who not only stole this country's government but used it to disgraceful and destructive ends -- pointless war and economic disaster but who has earned us the contempt of mankind. It isn't meanness of spirit that moves us to attack him, but a commitment to victory, and a determination to give back as good or as bad as we're given.
Still, this is Harlan's blog, and he can set our tone and topic as he wishes. I'd rather talk about Julie anyway -- there was a man without a mean-spirited cell in his body.
Nebulas
Harlan, I won't be at the ceremony myself, due to family obligations, so this is just idle curiosity: will you be attending the Nebs?
And btw: the nominated story by NEW YORKER writer Kent Brockmeier is also a major duty winner.
Neal:
Re: B. Travens
After 27 years of reading HE, got my first hit in '75 at 15 with 'I Have No Mouth...', WHEEE, I recall something about a B. Travens in one of HE's essays, and I'm betting that it was in 'Edge'.
Re: No insolence...
Firstly, no, no, I agree, and that goes for me too: no insolence intended. Hey man, when Moses came down from the mountain looking pissed, I would still be one of the ones moveing rapidly in the opposite direction! However, You're a better man than I, Gunga Din! I was wondering who would be the first to pipe up again. Like I said before, I rarely de-lurk but after reading the man for 27 years I gotta say that classic phrases like 'I wish for you only that you gag on the chitinous onychium when next you jam your cloven hoof into your drool-teeming gob'will resonate in my imagination forever, while after "..jiggery-pokery", if HE ever says 'Young Whippersnappers', I'll lose it forever!
Harlan, please tell us that all is forgiven, you're only concerned about our precious bodily fluids and that you were thinking of Sara Bernhart in the last post.
-Another Inveterate Class Clown, with the psychic scars to prove it.
B. Traven
I don't care who answers this question:
In years of reading I have come across mostly vague references to Unca Harlan in some way funding a B. Traven novel. Hell, I'm not so sure it was even a novel, or if funding was the issue. (I'm positive it involved B. Traven)
Does anyone know the story here; or where I can find a related HE essay on the subject?
unrelated:
See now, in grade school I would have been the gangly, big-eared kid in the back row who got sent to the principal's office because during a harsh admonishment by Mr. Ellison I couldn't hold my water when he used the term "..jiggery-pokery". >snork<
Not intending insolence,
Neal
TO ROB, THE KENTUCKY ROOMMATE, FRANK CHURCH AND EVERYONE ELSE:
Kindly take this thread to one of the chat-rooms set up for that purpose. Which is to say, get the hell out of my dining pavilion with this jiggery-pokery. I have less than no interest in reading the fulminations of someone who refers to others as "dipshits" in lieu of cleverer patois, even if his insights merit serious consideration. Meanness of spirit is a sickness that infects Democrats and Libertarians and Socialists and Greenpeacers and Independants as well as Republicans of all stripes, and if there are those amomng you who wish to demonstrate the malaise, do so ... but not here. This is where I reside, and you can toss garbage against the walls anywhere else your mingy souls choose to skulk. But not here.
Take it away, ALL OF YOU, now!
As civilly as possible, Harlan
TO ROB, THE KENTUCKY ROOMMATE, FRANK CHURCH AND EVERYONE ELSE:
Kindly take this thread to one of the chat-rooms set up for that purpose. Which is to say, get the hell out of my dining pavilion with this jiggery-pokery. I have less than no interest in reading the fulminations of someone who refers to others as "dipshits" in lieu of cleverer patois, even if his insights merit serious consideration. Meanness of spirit is a sickness that infects Democrats and Libertarians and Socialists and Greenpeacers and Independants as well as Republicans of all stripes, and if there are those amomng you who wish to demonstrate the malaise, do so ... but not here. This is where I reside, and you can toss garbage against the walls anywhere else your mingy souls choose to skulk. But not here.
Take it away, ALL OF YOU, now!
As civilly as possible, Harlan
RESPONDING TO DAVE CLARKE'S QUERY
Henry Kuttner; Robert Weinberg; Ambrose Bierce; Wm. Hope Hodgson and Ray Bradbury; Peter Straub and much of Robert Bloch; Fyodor Sologub and quite a lot of the eldritch Lovecraft; Manly Wade Wellman; large chunks of Dean Koontz and Stephen King; Franz Kafka; Sax Rohmer and Robert Aickman and Richard Matheson and the novels featuring The Shadow; SONG OF KALI by Dan Simmons; Eugene Sue and Henry James's TURN OF THE SCREW and Jose Donoso and Shirley Jackson; the great, the inimitable Fritz Leiber; Charles Fort (and by extension, Eric Frank Russell); James Branch Cabell and Thorne Smith and Guy Endore (whom I knew); Sarban and Guy de Maupassant and "The Monkey's Paw" by W.W. Jacobs. Mary Shelley. And, above all others, Edgar Allan Poe and Clark Ashton Smith, sui generis par excellence nonpareil.
I'm probably omitting 3 doz. others that I love, but this is the list just off the top of my head as you ask the question.
Yr. pal, Harlan
Never had me, and now you really lost me
>So was Truman and both had vision<
Oh please. Is there anything more tiring and intellectually bereft than invoking the alleged mythic qaulity of the past, with the purpose of dramatizing the present's shortcomings?
I don't know where you've done your reading sir, or how long you've even been alive, but I can assure you that Harry Truman was no more blessed with "vision" than my dog. He was a tough, salty politician who did his best in a very difficult situation, namely fill in with no preparation after the sudden death of a much-revered king. His actions as President in the fractious post-war environment ranged from gutsy to competent to stupid. Hauling out his carapace to dramatize some perceived failings in the current crop of presidential timber is not argument, it's just uninformed crap.
Ditto for JFK. Kennedy was many things, among them shot to death, but his tenure in the White House just wasn't long enough for him to be hailed as an avatar of vision. Yes, he was young, he was charismatic, and it's very conceivable that unlike many in high power, he was improving with rule, but the actual record is sadly aborted. LBJ's record as a public servant, by comparison, has much more depth, most of it blurred by the tragedy of Viet Nam.
The Democrats this year have offered a very wide field of interesting and committed candidates, many of whom easily have more "vision" for the country and its possibilities than either Truman or Kennedy had. If you want to dump on the limitations of John Kerry, fine, do so with gusto, but not by wasting our time with the witless mantra that "they don't make 'em like that anymore."
I know I probably could have spent my downtime at work on something better, but I just hit page 680 of Joe Eszterhas's "Hollywood Animal" and guess who rates a mention? Harlan Ellison!
No juicy gossip, though. He's just mentioned in league with Hart Crane, Toni Morrison, Langston Hughes and Jerry Siegel as one of Cleveland's literary exports.
DARRYL: Thank you. Mission accomplished; got the recording; it's on its way. My appreciation and gratitude.
Yr. pal, Harlan
Schwartz tribute
Dear Harlan,
Hope you'll permit this lurker a few moments to express his admiration. As emotional as all the heartfelt words about Julie's passing have been (both here and elsewhere on the Web, but especially here), nothing I read made me weep...until I read your tribute in the new Comics Buyer's Guide (which, as a subscriber and contributor, I was able to access online this morning).
I was fine until I got to the part where you wrote that Julie's efforts in comics "shaped the morality and ethics of kids everywhere." That shock of recognition, reading something I knew, but didn't know I knew, was overwhelming. I have always felt that I learned more about character and integrity and morality from Superman than I ever did from Sunday school. You made me realize just how much of that I actually owe to Julie Schwartz. And so I began crying.
There was much more in your tribute that was fine and wonderful, but that was what put me over the edge. And I just wanted to say thanks for that.
I can't believe the Times didn't publish this. What were those chuckleheads thinking? Ah well, their loss is CBG's gain.
Thanks for letting me express my appreciation...and give you the props you deserve for such a fine tribute. Ya done good!
Best,
Steve George
I agree with Frank. Rob has shown his contrition, and he also explained that he was engaging in "boy' talk with Franks:
Call: "I am dangling my penis in your face." Response: "Get your 'AIDS-ridden' penis away from me." Kind of like an old plantation worksong.
The homophobia and insensitivity in the remark in certainly there, as it is present in evry teenage who says, "That's so gay!" when they don't like something. But it was more meant as part of a game of playing the dozens with Frank than a meaningful defamation of a disenfrachised part of society.
I've had friends who have died and are dying of AIDS, and I don't think Rob was thinking of that human suffering when he made his cap on Frank. Let's forgive him and note that what Rob didn't mean to say is nowhere near as bad as what Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson mean to say everyday.
Steve Dooner
Barney: You said "This means things like the play AIR LINGUS would have to pay a huge fee to the Joyce estate for the 20 or so Joyce lines used in the production. This fee would put the play out of bounds for quite a few local production companies. This is just one for instance."
I may be wrong here, but I think, in order to produce any play that is copyrighted, you have to go through Samuel French to obtain scripts and permission to produce. Samuel French, then, would negotiate the fees with the Joyce estate, and that cost would be broken down and distributed between all the people purchasing rights to the play over time. This would probably make the fees less onerous to small companies interested in producing the play.
Correct me if I'm wrong about this. It is true that the rights for certain plays are prohibitively expensive for some theatres to buy; I worked in a student-run 80 seat theatre for many years, and you got to know what was in your price range and what wasn't. Surprisingly, a lot of popular plays were quite affordable.
PAB
Does anyone know how a person goes about getting a copy of an Ellison essay published recently in Hollywood Variety, I believe? The title, if memory serves, is "Infamy: The New Fame" or something bearing similarity to it.
I'd happily pay a resonable price.
M
I agree with EVERYONE here.
That "AIDS-ridden" bit was utterly STUPID…and embarrassing.
I may sometimes lack common sense (occasionally opening my big mouth without thinking); but I DO have ethics and that allows me to learn. (Those of us here who’ve known each other for a long time - outright scathing from newcomers being perfectly understandable - should give each other benefit of the doubt; I mean after all THIS time you should know what I’M about and I should know what YOU’RE about. We saw this in the crossfire with Ben: when one of us blunders, a dialogue works a lot better than a pillory. That is the constructive course if we find, to our shock, one among us has something to learn. We can judge each other; we can label each other; we can punish each other. But the best reparation is found in dialogue. Civilization is built on this concept) I AM cognizant of the AIDS tragedies, from Africa’s horrific pandemic to the very high HIV stats among heteros. I do not live in the kind of vacuum described by Rick below. That would be mischaracterizing me.
But I sincerely apologize for the recklessness and lack of consideration.
To err is human, but to really foul things up you need a computer. - Paul Ehrlich
Let's lay off Rob a bit, k? He made a mistake--outgunning me is impossible, but give him credit for trying. Sure, his AIDS remark was nutty, as well as a bit weird, but we all know my cuddle bunny didn't mean any harm. We will allow our Rob to come back into the hutch. Nobody throw a carrot or lettuce leaf. Now give Rob a pat on the back. We know that he is a smart guy who means no ill will.
And Rob, you made me laugh out loud, that last post. I need that, since I was over a sore throat.
----------------
Alex's Roomate, we know the Democrats are rats, but Bush is a war criminal and a liar. Kerry wins by default. Hell, I'd even except Torricelli, and he is a felon.
Eat more fiber. That toolkit in your gut must be the cause of this ignorance.
We all agree, AIDS is a horrible thing. That is why this pathetic country better start giving more to combat the disease in Africa.
"Black people died, while the other man lied."
Public Enemy.
Just the facts
"ALEX'S ROOMIE IN KY: Noticed that your not-quite statistics about how many democrats voted in the Milwaukee primary, and how many of _those_ voted for Kerry, seemed off the mark. I haven't got the exact percentage of exactly how many Dems voted in front of me, but I do remember that 29 percent of those voting in the primary were independents; 9 percent were republicans. And I remember that the of democrats that voted, there was a better than 10 percent spread between those who voted for Kerry and those who chose Edwards. To paraphrase the cop on the old "Dragnet" TV series, "Just the facts, man. Just the facts." (By the way, you are NEVER gonna get any dates by calling yourself "Alex's Roomie" -- can't you come up with something more suave? Even "Zorro" -- considering you probably dress in mostly black -- would at least seem mysterious).
--DTS (a die-hard independent)
Roomie, Joyce
Damn, if that's who I think it is, you sure had me going. I'd never have guessed (and even said yesterday, nah, that's nobody I ever lived with, must be a different Alex). Assuming it's who I think it is, I just sent you an email. Hiya.
For what it's worth, no, I'm not better--but I'm not dying either. I appreciate the concern.
I don't debate politics much in these parts. In my 22 years online, I've run some political boards, including, Lord help us, Rush Limbaugh's original board on CompuServe. Now there was a land of uninventive invective, although some of the debate was quite good. Funny thing, though. On Rush's occasional visits, it became obvious that most of the BBS participants, left and right, were far better at debate than Rush was.
Anyway, I burned out on this kind of fierce online political argument a while back. So I'll stay out of this debate, save to note that it might be better to move the discussion to the other board here, as it seems to have nothing to do with Harlan.
On copyrights and the Joyce estate: As some here know, I own the oldest book-and-author site on the internet, having established it back in the days when you still had to use a soldering iron to get lower-case lettering on your Apple ][. In those longago times, we attempted an online discussion of Finnegans Wake. Once a month, a member with too much time on his hands posted most of a page of the Wake, and the rest of the membership spent the rest of the month discussing it.
I should have known better.
Eventually, yep, we heard from the Joyce estate. I'd thought we were safe, as we were staying within a 250-word segment each time, and the distribution wasn't very wide in those days. I still accepted the cease-and-desist demand, while wryly noting that at the rate we were going, we would publish the entire Wake in just over 70 years.
Barney,
That's really interesting. Tragic, but in light of copyright issues we regularly discuss here, it brings us back to that gray area of where Intellectual Property becomes Universal Property.
And is the law unjust?
So we interpret the motives of the legal owner as contrary to our desires, does that mean we have the right to violate the legal rights of the heir? Since the law gives him the right to control the copyright, who are we to say he can't any more than we can say to the 1st generation owner of copyright that their work transcends something one person can own and really belongs to the world?
So the guy's a money-grubbing assclown. That's sad, but I guess its up to the people to somehow convince him to do "the right thing" since he is legally entitled to control that property.
I'm not making a judgement. I'm curious what you guys think.
ROB: Paula's right. I wasn't offended by the "vulgarity" or the "violent imagery" in your post; I'm not a delicate flower that wilts away when someone says a naughty word in its presence. (What the hell would I be reading Harlan's books for, if that were the case?) Rather, I was offended by the use of "AIDS-riddled" as a synonym for "gay," which is as homophobic a comment as anything I've read on this board, ever. It was a dumb thing to say, Rob, and the excuse that you were trying to match Frank tit for tat doesn't cut it. So don't make out like I'm standing on ceremony here, because I rarely jump on people's cases for how they phrase their posts, or for not toeing the party line. Life's a little too short, and no one's elected me the Emperor of Ice Cream, as far as I know.
For Harlan's sake, this is my last post on the topic. If you want to discuss this further, Rob, maybe you should take it to the other board, instead.
You Missed the point...
It figures most of you missed the point. The point was vision. And I guess you were not aware but Kennedy, (John F.) was a democrat. So was Truman and both had vision. This isn't about sides it's about leadership. Pointing out weakness of the "other side" is not leadership. It's lack of vision with a convenient double dose of non-accountability. Liberman was the closest to leadership. And about the Clintons... hate them as much as you want but when it comes to working the system there is none better. Kerry is out of money and without that, he's got nothing to fight Bush with. And who's the best fundraiser? You guessed it... the Clintons. Haven't bashed yet have I? And for the priviledge of raising the money will come most certain priviledges... enter the "C" Queen.
In the end, it's a way to win. It's tactical and probably the only hope of beating Bush. Less than a third of the democrats voted in Wisconsin... they are not moving yet. And those that did go to vote, Kerry was as good as Edwards. That's why Kerry dropped like a rock and Edwards was within kissing distance. So Kerry wins it but he's out of cash. Add the ultimate ingredient, the Clintons, and you will see democrats flooding to the voting booths in November and the ability to raise a warchest.
Still think I'm ranting? But at the end of this, where is the vision? Where is the leadership? It's a tactic to win but it holds no brighter tomorrow for anyone other than the power elite that will hold office.
And by the way, my father was Chairman of the Democratic party for many, many years in this state which until recently was solidly democratic. I know more about the democratic party, good and bad, than most of you dipshits that "choose sides" rather than leaders. The D. party has plenty of leaders. Damn good ones. But none of them made it to the ticket. And gee, I wonder why?
Instead of accusing me of being a Republican and a conservative you should be outraged. Outraged that when it comes time to go to bat, the best hitters were left in the dug out. And guess who's coachin' the team? Follow the money.
And on the Aids thing... I watched my brother-in-law go through the long process of that death and whoever said it's not funny... well it's not. Try living with no T cells, your skin literally falling off, yeast infections in your mouth and any other cavity that still has moisture left in it, dimentia and the normal bacteria in your digestive track used to break down food is now breaking you down from the inside out. A real riot. Goes right in there with "worthless nigger," "fucking jew," "mackrel snapper," "wop," "slope head," "chink," "wetback," and...what was that you called me....liberal or conservative?
If anything here offends anyone may I suggest you seek some professional help. And the good news is, it's free.... if you live in Massachusetts.
And hey Alex, it seems as you are doing better on the health front and I am truly happy for you and yours.
weird fiction
Mr. Ellison,
Other than Klarkash-Ton, who are your all-time favorite weird fiction writers?
Thank you, Rick.
From Stephen Hero to Herodotus and back or something.
THURSDAY 1:42AM
*** Brian *** That post looks to have been posted by Jay from over here.
*** Jay *** Yes, the Joyce grandson certainly could do what you suggest, but it hasn't been his practice to do anything of the sort. What I have gleaned from the two articles I have seen recently and what I have heard from a friend who had correspondence with the Joyce estate "gatekeeper" [the grandson's college roommate] is that it really is primarily about squeezing revenue from the body of work.
Now I want to be clear here. I have gone toe to toe with a few people on the net about this. I firmly believe a creator has the right to vigorously defend his work and to derive as much revenue from that work as is humanly possible, and then some. Fang, claw, carnivorous lawyers, whatever it takes. I'm just looking at something further down the road. Not "what do we do/what should we do?", but rather "when do we stop?" and are there any exceptions with regard to intent and degree.
First, I really don't believe what the grandson is doing now honors the memory of James Joyce in any way. Second, I don't think the public readings would dissuade purchase of the work unless, of course, they were read by me, since brogue and burr and lilt are all quite beyond my talents. I mean, look at how many CD's are sold at the Newport Jazz Festival. Does anybody think Neil Gaiman reading CORALINE in its entirety hurt sales? Does Neil?
Finally, and I'm not trying to be sarcastic here, I'm not sure a work that starts with the chapter title TELEMACHUS is entirely free of a few literary debts of it's own.
What about Rex Warner, Hugh Tredennick, Dorothy Sayers and W.K.G. Guthrie. What do these literary leeches owe the sons and daughters of Greece? Now that part there was sarcasm.
- Barney Dannelke
Rob: It wasn't the vulgarity or threats of violence that were offensive in your post, IMO. Please, this is Ellison Webderland; the word "cunt" barely causes a ripple, and Harlan has, from time to time, offered to clean folks' clocks for them. No, it was the one-two punch of flagrant homophobia and anti-AIDS vitriol that was revolting. I didn't see anything in Frank's posts that warranted your DefCon 5 response, nor any awareness in your apology of why your post was objectionable to at least 3 people who read it.
I also have to question why you'd be reading this website if you had a girl in your room about to give you "what you worked so hard for." Hint: log off the Internet BEFORE the girl arrives. I bet that'll help out a lot in the future.
PAB
To Brian Siano:
It must be a glitch. I just looked and it is credited to Jay Smith.
I'm sorry for posting twice. But I was just re-reading this board, and the board's showing me as being the author of a short post I didn't write.
The post in question says something about copyrights and Victorian-era authors. I didn't write this. Dunno who did.
This could be an odd glitch of viewing the board in Opera.
C'mon gang, Roomate is not offensive. Jeezus, let's not get thin-skinned over a ranting 'conservative' while a fellow liberal is given a pass over tossing out the AID-infested bon mot just because, hey, we're all pals here.
Roomate ranted. Frank rants. I rant. Sooner or later, everyone here rants. But I see nothing offensive here; just an overzealous opinion (can you spell 'Frank'?)
He called Kerry a Herman Munster lookalike. Yup. Real original gag, there. Edwards a trial lawyer. No shit. Believes Hillary will step in at the last minute....proof that he is just ranting, as that old conspiracy theory died over a year ago. OK, so he called some of you/us dumbshits and dipshits. At least he didn't call you/us AIDS-infested dumbshits. He insulted the Clintons some more. Yikes, there's an offense to spit nails at.
Then he used the, gasp, 'C' word. Yikes. With all the goddamn motherfucking asswipe cocksucking cursewords that have been burned into these boards, it looks like 'cunt' is not allowed.
Is that it? Liberal-bashing, Clinton-bashing and cunts? Is that what offended you, or is it just a brand-new delurker tossing out conservative shit that is actually quite lame for even MY standards???
If you ask me, I think Roomate is just Frank gone on a bender. Too many Chomsky videos.
-TODD
The Flu's just about over. I'd say "I live again," but I have to go back to work tomorrow, so "living again" ain't exactly as cool as it sounds.
Anyway, my throat is stil amazingly tender. It hurts to eat solid food, it feels as though it's never been used to swallow anything harsher than vanilla pudding, and while looking in there with a flashlight I came up with a _truly_ ghastly metaphor.
The back of my throat, I thought, is as soft and pink as a baby's labia.
Beat THAT for a mix of evocative and unpleasant, if you can.
Rick - I hit "SUBMIT" before I wanted.
There are countless cases where Victorian authors and their estates keep the copyright fresh and it works to the advantage of the property. But the Doyle estate and the owners of the rights to Welles properties seem to work with groups rather than enforce a universal fee.
Barney,
If grandson puts the copyright into effect, can't he grant permission to anyone in writing and just not accept payment? I mean, it would shine a light on his motives if he wound up putting a public production under just to grab a few extra bucks.
I thought the protection of copyright allowed the author to decide who uses the material and who doesn't. If the copyright holder ignores it, he or she is open to contests at every turn, but if the deal is made to permit limited use, or specific use) then it actually benefits the copyright holder in the future as a defense of their ownership against those who profit from its use.
Covering a base while introducing a conundrum.
On the off chance that my post of 2/15/04 may have tripped some sort of litigious potentiality - namely the 2 sentence quote from JEFFTY IS FIVE - I just wanted to say here and now that I used that in the spirit of "fair use" and certainly wasn't trying to be cute or start something. Since I was using it as preamble to review another piece and not one of Harlan's, except to say how I was haunted by Harlan's, this may be some abuse of the notion of "fair use". If this is the case, well my apologies are offered here and feel free to amend it.
I'm not sure where we stand on links to copyrighted material so I will paraphrase this next part. Presently the grandson of James Joyce is using the re-extension of copyright to insure that there be no public readings of any part of any James Joyce material at the upcoming Re:Joyce centennery festival. This was something that was allowed from 1992 [when the original c. lapsed until I believe last year] when copyright was retroactively extended. This means things like the play AIR LINGUS would have to pay a huge fee to the Joyce estate for the 20 or so Joyce lines used in the production. This fee would put the play out of bounds for quite a few local production companies. This is just one for instance.
I'm not saying the Joyce estate is wrong. Although I must confess that I don't believe somebody getting off a few choice lines from Ulysses or Dubliners at a festival celebrating the author is going to hurt Joyce sales. But I do understand the slippery slope nature of all this. I have heard the grandson called a few choice names and "prickly" was the least of them.
A Google or Copernic news search will yield some far more detailed articles about all of this.
This leads to strange hypothetical. It seems hard to imagine a 2034 Reader Con celebrating the 100th anniversary of Harlan Ellison while the estate blocks a public reading of any part of any of his works. On the other hand it may be a VERY cranky living Harlan Ellison blocking such a reading and I certainly have no problem with that.
Dinner bell. And with Pavlovian predictability I depart.
- Barney Dannelke
Harlan, the Waxman/Stern piece was done for the HUMORESQUE soundtrack, where Stern also doubled for close-ups of John Garfield's performing hands.
Otherwise, try to behave today.
Washu: Everyone had punch and pie while you were gone, but we saved you some. Other than what you've mentioned, that was about it.
Cheers, Jon
Hi.
Yes, I'm back, with my title altered again (for the LAST time) to match my identity on the bulletin board.
You see, I've discovered that at every point I've run into an ugly brawl here, the catalyst was always some form of miscommunication. Have any of you noticed this? At the end of every spat, my rival would suddenly become strangely weepy-eyed and say, "Oh, I didn't know it was YOU, Washu! If I had only KNOWN, blah blah blah blah blah..." It seems everyone has come to recognize me as Lil' Washu, for better or for worse. (Much to my horror, mind you. The real Washu is nothing more than a pink-haired mad scientist on a silly anime show. What the LIVING HELL was I thinking?)
In any case, the next time someone insults or criticizes me, at least I'll know for sure there's no damn faux pas involved. It's clear water from here on in.
Just for the record, I lurked here for about two days before I decided a more TOTAL vacation from the Webderland was in order. If I've missed anything important (other than Julie Schwartz DYING, of course), I'm welcomed to be filled in.
HARLAN,
I didn't know Mr. Schwartz, but from what I've come to know of him, I feel like a poorer man for it.
I can't tell you how to cope with this pain, because you're over forty frickin' years older than me and far more battle-scarred than I'll ever be by the time I'm ready to abandon this mortal coil. All I can offer is my condolences and heartfelt wishes for brighter days ahead.
With respect and humility,
Benjamin A.A. Winfield
Hello all, a newbie here. Just stopped in to give my respect and regards to an author whose work I have enjoyed for quite a number of years.
Thank you, Harlan Ellison.
I'll leave, and let the conversation regarding AIDS go on mostly unmolested.
M (not the Fritz Lang character, but I do love the film.)
FOR THE RECORD
Rick, I appreciate all your hard work in maintianing this site. I also appreciate your sensitivity.
Please excuse my impertinence, but I would like to say for the record that I believe it's only realistic for me to expect to be offended on a forum such as this one. And for any number of reasons, not the least being that I am easily offended and not so smart really.
It should be made clear that postings by personas such as "So and So's roomate" are far more offending than anything else I have ever read here. (And I have gone back quite a distance in the archives just so I would know what was up in this forum before I started spouting and making value judgements.)
Whatever post Frank or Rob or Rich or Cindy or Dorman (hi Dorman) or Loftus have created was always signed. They always take responsibility for the messages they post. I have to respect that.
Sure, I was taken aback by the AIDS comment, but I've always seen this particular argument (between Rob and Frank) resolve itself, it always makes some comic sense to me. I'm not saying it's cool, it's not cool at all. I've lost a friend to this scourge. But it is part of the consistently juvenile skylarking that I have come to expect between these two idjits. (Frank and Rob, I am joking...)
To be honest, I find Frank and Rob both to be objectionable. I also find them indispensable. And they both need to work on their grammar, if not their delivery.
For what it's worth.
However, to flame up like "Roommate" did and not to sign off on her/his bullshit is cowardice, plain and simple. There is nothing else to say, except, that if you're not big enough to weigh in, name and all, you're not big enough to play.
Respectfully, (to some)
Neal
Random Acts of Cyber-Violence
I'm going to be updating the posting forms to list a few bannable offenses - among them:
- multiple posts in one day / 24 hrs unless asked a direct question from Harlan
- spamming the board (massive posts, multiple aliases, etc)
- deliberate copyright violation
- credible physical threats (those without a clear indication the threat is joking or facetious)
As per usual, none of these apply to Harlan who is welcome to say anything that won't get me thrown in jail or sued.
In case you think this is a personal thing, I will give an example of the sort of stuff I *do* allow.
I have friends AND family who are HIV-positive. I have also known people (not many, thank god, because it's an awful way to go) who have died of AIDS. Even when you get past all the bleeding heart stuff and Alan-Alda-like sensitivity, it's not pretty. AIDS is a terrible, frightening, and often horribly lingering illness.
When I see someone use the term "AIDS-ridden" as though it goes hand in hand with "homosexual," I want to pull out the ban stick. When I see that term also being used to express disgust and homophobia, it makes me regret that I created the board in the first place. I am ashamed that something I created has been used as a vehicle for this sort of mockery. I want to tear the whole site down. Let someone else have the grief. Let someone else be passive party to the trivialization of suffering.
So, yes, it would make me feel really, really, good to make statements like that go away. But I don't - because if I ban something because it made me sad or uncomfortable, where do I draw the line?
With out belaboring it, I will no longer use violent imagery in my posts, even though it was always in jest.
I think Frank understood I was just joking in my last post, and JIM was probably more offended by the vulgarity than Frank; but I don’t want others wondering if they really need to be wary around here. I would never set out to hurt anyone. My humor - frankly, often dragged away from time spent at the poker table with friends - sometimes slides into the "anything goes" end of the spectrum. But, as a certain site official put it to me, "People should feel safe to poke fun on the board without thinking someone might show up on their doorstep with a baseball bat."
Finally, I talked with Rick about why I responded to the homoerotic language in Frank's post the way I did:br>
"Frank loves laying on this imagery, like "Satan's nuts" and my touching his damn "bobblehead". The last thing I need is having a girl in my room, thinking I'm about to get what I worked hard for, and suddenly seeing Frank's bobblehead in my mind. BELIEVE me, it doesn't help the evening!
So, I countered his nauseating volley with a MORE tasteless volley - but I'm STILL just joking! - in the hopes (vain, probably) that he'll mellow with the homoerotic stuff.
In short: I really DON'T want his bobblehead in my face - or even the hideous image of it in my mind! (Hoping none of this echoes some hidden self-doubts about my own sexuality)
I wrote it fast; it was spinning off my brain like an impromptu stage show, and I didn't really give it a test read before posting. Maybe it read more rotten and mean-spirited than I'd realized. I never felt people would take any of it literally".
So, there WAS a dynamic going on here. I didn’t just get sick and vulgar without a reason. Frank and I were joking with each other; I felt I needed to MEET his volley. But next time I’ll try to make my point without suggesting to those who might believe it that I’d literally threaten violence.
Sorry if I unsettled any of you.
Frank,
For the record, Col. David Hackworth has been opposed to the war in Iraq from the git-go, and has written many a column criticizing the Bush Administration. He is not an admirer of George W. and in fact (like Michael Moore) was a Wesley Clark supporter. Back in September 03 he wrote glowingly of Gen. Clark. Yes, it is indeed a strange world.
The Roommate
FRANK: I wouldn't let that little dickless wonder bother you. He's going through his "I'm an anarchist college-boy phase." He probably wears a lot of dark clothes, reads too much Nietzsche (or books by some other philospher who liked to beat his breast too much), believes he is really deep and intense when he's simply self-indulgent and juvenile, and doesn't have the mental, emotional or financial wherewithal to survive in the real world. (What's more, he doesn't know that the best place to use the word cunt, is in the boudoir, just before ordering some fine dining). Someday he may grow out of his larval stage. Then, if he does, you might want to try and communicate. For now, it's best to leave lower life forms like him to the good offices of toads and other reptiles.
--DTS
Chris, thanks for the offer, but I fear I haven't made myself clear. When I speak of an independent bookstore, I mean just that: an independent bookstore. Joseph-Beth Booksellers is a chain. Heck, there are two of them within a five-mile radius of my home, one at Shaker Square, another at the much-ballyhoo'd Legacy Village (Cleveland's version of The Grove, but without the terrific Farmer's Market).
As chains go, Joseph-Beth Booksellers is marvelous. It deserves particular credit for its live author speeches and booksignings. But it's still a chain, more of a book department store than an independent bookstore. I miss those old stores. You could go into them, and the clerks knew you, knew your tastes. They'd say, "Here comes Alex," and guide me right to the newest titles by Thomas Pynchon, Michael Moorcock, and Harlan Ellison. If there was a new Twain bio, they'd point it out to me. When Leiber's "Our Lady of Darkness" hit their shelves, they knew to hold one for me, without my putting in an order. They knew their customers, and they knew books in a way chain clerks almost never do. You were the exception, Chris, not the rule.
I mentioned Terry Pratchett not because he's good--though he is very, very good--but because he's damn famous. In England, he's their Stephen King, so well known that someone once wrote that of every ten books read on the Underground, four are by Pratchett. He's not as big in the American market, but he is big enough that any bookstore clerk should be able to say, "Terry Pratchett? Right over here."
Which reminds me of an American tour he did. He came through Cleveland, and I got to spend an hour or so with him. I was impressed by his hotel room--excellent digs for a touring author's one-day visit--and I commented that Harper Collins was doing right by him. He replied that when they asked him to drag himself across the briny for an exhausting tour schedule, he called someone who could give him good advice. Someone who could tell him what to ask for, what to insist on, as a condition to come. Someone who'd know what he'd really need to survive the hassles and joys.
In short, he called Unca Harlan.
What a horrible life you must lead, Mr. Roomate. Your brain is full of clanking metal, but not much else. See, noise alone doesn't wipe the doggies ass. You Sir, are the reason Republicans deserve the black eye. The 'c' word was beyond poisonous. You can dislike the democrats all you want, but please, try to at least be civil. That is some statement coming from me. Just ask the rest.
--------------
Cindy, throw some Jesus dust on that asshole, will ya? :-)
USA
Harlan:
The package arrived today; thanks so much for thinking of me. I have a lot of other stuff on my "to read" shelves, but I'll try to get to this soon and let you know what I think.
Eric Martin pleaded guilty after Alex complained that chain bookstore clerks don't know who Terry Pratchett is. Don't feel too bad, man; two years ago I'd barely heard of him myself, but I've read eight or nine of his books in the interim, and even read a few passages from _Guards! Guards!_ aloud at the local Borders for my "Classic Tales of Sorcery and Suspense" event last October.
I've drafted my review of "Charlie: The Art and Life of Charles Chaplin," but now I'm worried because there's been no activity on the DocumentaryFilms.net site in months, and the site owner hasn't responded to the email I sent him several nights ago. Aside from the fact that I want to get my Chaplin review up soon, I just saw a Canadian documentary called "The Corporation" which is really powerful. Not thrilling, never shrill, or as antic as "Bowling for Columbine," but a real thought-provoking study of corporations and their psychopathology. It'll only scare you as much as you allow it to, but it's also kind of inspiring.
Frank'll love this one: it's got Chomsky in it. (One of the filmmakers was the guy who shot "Manufacturing Consent.") Not scheduled for mainstream release until June -- the Castro in San Fran and Film Forum in NYC. They have a Web site at www.TheCorporation.com, I believe.
You can do it much better than the government
Kerry, beyond being a Herman Munster look-a-like has never stood for anything other than self interest. Edwards is a trial lawyer... but why should that worry anyone? You dumbshits don't realize that Clinton calls the shots. Look for Hilary to pull the whole thing from the ashes at the convention. The internal sabotage is obvious. If any of the candidates had vision, they could protect themselves from the internal attacks but they don't. They can talk about things like jobs... yeah right. How ya gonna do that... a work program funded by whom? Healthcare...yeah OK, what was that again Hilary?
The party is a joke. Get rid of the Clintons, Macaulife and the whole mob and put someone in there with true vision and a plan... like a John Kennedy. The guy had balls and vision and a plan to pull it off. Go to the moon...that's a vision. Hilary has balls...God knows she has balls but absolutely no vision other than being a power hungry cunt who cares for no one but her own legacy.
The party is in a shambles thanks to the media savy poll responding Clintons. Tell 'em what they want to hear and then... do nothing. Anyone got a cigar?
The democrats need a leader. A real leader and unfortunately Kerry is a joke and do you really think an ambulance chaser like Edwards cares about the American people?
Wake up you liberal dipshits. Quit waiting for the government to solve your problems and start taking responsibility for yourselves. Once you got your life in order, do your neighbor a favor and help them out. Jesus. Don't think the government is going to do that. Haven't you figured out that the government takes... it doesn't give and whenever you hear a dumbshit like Kerry say, "We're gonna give America back to the people blah blah blah" remember it was never his to give. You already have it and you don't need him or anyone else to give it to you. All you need to do is step up.
Independent Bookstores
A Querey to Alex,
You Wrote:
"Also, viz. a message thread that seems to have died out--there are no independent bookstores left in the Cleveland area. I don't mean "not many." I mean "none." They've all been devoured, and the chains are staffed with people who don't know who Harlan is. Hell, they don't even know who Terry Pratchett is. That's scary. I'd love to frequent an independent bookseller, but I don't feel like driving to Columbus to find one."
Did the Joseph-Beth Booksellers outlet in Cleveland fold? If it did, it's crying shame. In the mid-90's, I worked mainly at the Cincinnati store and it was one of the best working experiences I ever had. I started as the Periodicals Manager (1200+ magazines & newspapers) and ended in charge of all of genre fiction and true crime.
In 1995, Harlan was also gracious enough to spare 45 minutes of his time to phone in for a discussion of his I, Robot screenplay with twenty readers that was a blast and a half and an experience I'll never forget. (Thank you again, Harlan).
If you need anything Alex, I'm at your disposal...
Chris B.
United States
>Hell, they don't even know who Terry Pratchett is. That's scary.<
Um, guilty.
Various
The record you're looking for is also available on Amazon, Harlan, listed as "A Life In Music: Isaac Stern, Volume 8." One reviewer complains of a lot of department of redundancy department stuff on disc 2--but that's where the Carmen Fantasy is to be found, too.
Which got me to thinking about all the records I've bought over the years for the sake of one measley cut, a gem sparkling amidst the dross, or, for Beaumont's sake, the rose atop the mountain of cowflops. There are a lot of them, from the junky "Ballroom Blitz" that keeps a whole, largely awful album by Sweet in my shelves to an Incredible String Band twofer with one three-minute intrumental track. I know I should burn myself new CDs that collect the single cuts into a larger whole, but I'm really too damn lazy.
And there's _still_ no CD release of Lookofsky's Stringsville. What's wrong with this picture?
Also, viz. a message thread that seems to have died out--there are no independent bookstores left in the Cleveland area. I don't mean "not many." I mean "none." They've all been devoured, and the chains are staffed with people who don't know who Harlan is. Hell, they don't even know who Terry Pratchett is. That's scary. I'd love to frequent an independent bookseller, but I don't feel like driving to Columbus to find one.
Stern/Waxman/Carmen
Mr. Ellison:
Please go to the below website, and you'll find your disc.
http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/album.jsp?album_id=4171
I believe it is the session you seek. Waxman, Carmen Fantasy, played by Issac Stern.
Darryl
AGAIN, A SMIDGE OF ASSISTANCE
The other evening I was listening to one of the classical music radio stations here in the LA area, and they were playing a charmingly askew version of the overture from "Carmen" as conducted by Franz Waxman, with Isaac Stern simply imperial on the violin. I lusted after it, so nice was it; but ...
I realized I'd never heard that version before, and attempted to find it (with Susan's helming of the pc) avec the usual googles and websites and amazons and what-all. No luck. Lotsa Waxman, oodles of Stern; but not that item. Sob!
A vinyl pal of mine (see him spin!) recalls that this was an early 10" lp, probably Columbia (but that's a guess); and he says he's moderately certain it was never reissued as either a 12" lp or as a CD. But he didn't know how to get ANY version of it, CD or LP, either.
May I enlist the computer search skills of one or another of you who've aided me so fulsomely in the past, to make safari and hegira through the e.thicket? Get me a clue, if you can; I beseech thee.
Thanks. Yr. pal, Harlan
what are YOU reading?
i read John Collier last night, he's a good one.
Regards,
Neal
P.S. Hi Cindy.
A question for Rob
In your increasingly-frenetic efforts to become the center of attention on this board, have you jettisoned what's left of your decorum and your common sense? "Keep your AIDS-ridden bobblehead out of my goddamn face"? I have to tell you, for all the trumpeting of your Democratic/Liberal bona fides, that line would make Michael Savage and all the other right-wing whackos chortle with glee. Not your finest hour, by ANY standard.
(Please note that, whatever faults Frank Church may have, he had the class not to respond to Rob's attack. Good on him.)
Quote for the day
ALL: Not sure whose words these are (the person who sent the quote didn't have a source), but they're definitely words to live by:
"LIFE IS NOT A JOURNEY TO THE GRAVE WITH THE INTENTION OF ARRIVING SAFELY IN A PRETTY AND WELL PRESERVED BODY, BUT RATHER TO SKID IN BROADSIDE, THOROUGHLY USED UP, TOTALLY WORN OUT, AND LOUDLY PROCLAIMING: 'WOW! WHAT A RIDE!'"
Gee, there seems to be a lot of "boy" talk in the old pavilion these days. I suggest that we all swap our comics and our die-cast army men and get along.
Joseph Finn: Mea Maxima Culpa! No offense was meant to any of the followers of Ignatius Loyola. I too admire the liberated minds of many Jesuits (though not all). I wrote the remark purely for the alliteration and should have said: "I could not tell ther Jedis from the Jesus-freaks" if I had only taken time to think about it. However, offense was certainly meant to Jedis everywhere.
Steve Dooner
Looks like David Hackworth is now defending Scott Ritter. Pretty soon, Bush won't have any friends.
------------
Look at this pathetic website.
http://pixyland.org/peterpan/
And this is hardly the scariest part of the internet.
Harlan, try to link to this site. It is a hoot.
Etiquette Coram Populo
Any time RICH disagrees with me - as his pastime, since I’ve known him, has been misplacing criticism, mischaracterizing an argument, OR missing the whole damn point ENTIRELY - I know my reasoning is copacetic.
FRANK:
Keep your AIDS-ridden bobblehead out of my goddamn face. You are crossing the boundaries of my personal space.
If you don’t want to get hurt leave me out of your weird revolting fixations.
Discretion is the better part of staying alive.
DTS:
On Artful Dodging:
Yes, I DO cover my ass. You may be pleased to know my last therapist told me ad nauseum what a great lawyer I'd make (you stepped me up - or DOWN as it were - to a politician). A courtroom is, in fact, a malapert’s heaven.
You've divined my most subtly pronounced talent. Let me put my glass to yours. Woe would be unto the one who did not feel the frith and the ale grip them!
...but getting back to business: I DID tweak the quote...more specifically your CONTEXT. (Yeah, that sounded good)
I made a clear argument about Kerry's viability as a candidate (all superficial but de facto whys). It was the ONLY point I was trying to make. You brought up facts - like the popular vote - which, while valid, aligned with a slightly different objective. The REASON it, in fact, serves my point - indirectly - is because, as you well know, the popular vote solidified an opposition base against Bush which continues (swaying his NON-veto pen and leaving an empty mandate and holding his popularity in stasis). On the other side we've the Republicans, most of whom remain hopeless fanatics closed in their niches. That leaves the voting "sliver" I was speaking of: the undecided and swing voters - an odd, aloof, funny-lookin' nomadic tribe of mutants with elf-like noses and curious grins looking for a home. THIS election is in THEIR hands; thus, the hands of a few, not those of the masses. THAT’S what I was goin’ on about.
(Hey! Listen. The theme is ‘herd the lemmings’. This little group of mutants has both sides by the balls. By Theoreau’s very argument. I, like the rest of the lemmings, back Kerry because I know, out of sad practicality, he holds the best chance. Anyone here who contests that isn’t being realistic. Relatively few of us, given the whim of a majority in want of an education, really vote our hearts, because we know it’ll be taken from us when we do; at best it can deliver a personal statement. One quickly lost. Well, I BURIED my personal statement in that "quiet desperation". That’s why I say I don’t disagree with you. Kerry may not be the man I’d have selected myself; in fact, originally he WASN’T. But now, having shifted my sense of gravity to accord the dynamics, I’ve become a follower in the herd. Adapt and survive. Yet, I DO feel, after he finishes vying for the superficial whims of a small group, he will at least help the school system, domestic affairs, and the economy with relative sincerity and skill. That is my very "LOUD desperation")
And that’s how YOUR subject of the popular vote SERVES my point.
APART FROM THAT I HAVE ONLY MY RECORD TO SPEAK FOR ME.
(Thinking the podium mike is now turned off) Yeah, that worked. That worked REAL good.
Cindy:
I will never bug you about the topic of religion again. It is clear to me now you really do have a job here. You allow us to keep tabs on Harlan when he gets this heaviness of heart without the whole lot of us getting excessively doting. As your radiance has the power to draw his response you speak for all of us, regardless of the language you choose. Keep up the fine work, Sister.
Of course, your political "policies" are still open game.
Oops - so sorry for being too late and missing Harlan's entry that he'd already got them. And this extra post.
Still, if anyone else wanted a copy ...
Galaxy Science Fiction
HARLAN
A site called Biblio.com has the March 1952 issue of Galaxy Science Fiction for sale.
The web page listing it is at:
http://www.biblio.com/browse_books/title/g/665.html
Here's the listing:
"Heinlein, Robert A.; H.F. Byfe, Jerry Sohl, Damon Knight, Willy Ley, Alfred Bester, H.L. Gold, Groff Conklin Galaxy Science Fiction, March 1952, Volume 3, No. 6 ( Includes the Demolished Man, Conclusion )
N.Y.: Galaxy Science Fiction Publishing Co., March 1952, Volume 3, Number 6, 1st Edition. ....................... digest sized paperback, Very Good +, small clip on corner of back cover, contributions include: The Year of the Jackpot by Heinlein, Manners of the Age by Fyfe, The Seventh Order by Sohl, Catch That Martian by Knight, The Demolished Man, conclusion by Bester, For your Information by Ley, Editor's Page by Gold, Galaxy's Five Star Shelf by Conklin.. First Edition. Soft Cover. Illus. by Richard Arbib. Catalogs: Science Fiction Fantasy. (Inventory #109962)
$ 12.50"
Hope this is some help.
HE: "Emerging from the fog. Things will be better soon. Deep sleep and deep breathing. The pain WILL pass. Didn't I get over the death of Isaac? And Eddie London? And Bill Dignin? And Bob Bloch? And Stephanie Bernstein? And Alfie Bester, and Avram, and Piglet, and Emily, and Van? Didn't I? Didn't I?
Sure I did."
I'm so sorry.
If it helps any, that was as heart-wrenching a passage as I've read in awhile.
Wishing you strength...
CINDY, SWEETIE: I'm fine. Truly. Don't fret.
STEVE JARRETT: Thanks for the direction. I got them from that source. And ANDREW: thanks for the offer, guy; but I'm 5-by-5. The emergency is past. Back to Defcon 44.
Yr. pal, Harlan
The Fog...
Harlan,
Your pain distresses me and diminishes hope that my prayers will motivate God to assuage your sadness. I keep hoping that if I pray hard enough God will eventually grant you solace just to "shut that woman in Texas the fuck up".
I hear you and I wish I could help... but alas there is nothing for any of us here to do but wait and pray and hope to distract you for a moment with our monkeyshines about Chaplin, and the 2004 Elections and how too much political Jesus-speak can actually make my ass hurt.
I worry about you. When I think of you sleeping because you're in pain it breaks my heart. I am consoled only by the knowledge that Susan is there and she will help you heal.
Your friend always,
Cindy
the basics--with ellipses, for extra measure
Unca Harlan,
When all else fails....breathe...one two...breathe....one two...and so on...
Do it for you, please.
Respectfully,
Neal
Frank...no one ever "peaks" anyone's interest...(Rob told me to say this) p-i-q-u-e please excuse my impertinence
Harlan,
As a confirmation of Mr. Jarrett's earlier post I found the same set through abebooks.com. Here's the description provided by the seller:
"THE DEMOLISHED MAN in GALAXY SCIENCE FICTION, January, February and March 1952 (3 issues.)
New York: Galaxy Publishing Corporation, 1952. 1st ed - First appearance in print of these works. DIgest magazines. The first appearance of Bester's classic science fiction novel, THE DEMOLISHED MAN, as serialized in three issues of Galaxy - Jan, Feb and March 1952. The first novel to win the Hugo award for best novel in 1953. In addition to Bester's novel, these digest magazines include original stories and novelets by Frank Robinson, Walter M. Miller, Jr., ('Conditionally Human'), Robert Heinlein ('Where To' and 'The Year of the Jackpot") Damon Knight, and much more. Cover illustrations by Don Sibley, Richard Powers and Richard Arbib. A piece of science fiction history - gorgeous covers worth hanging on the wall -lots of good reading. Each issue is in unusually near fine condition with only minor wear, no mailing labels and bright and attractive covers.
Bookseller Inventory #22284"
Would you like me to go ahead and order?
-Andrew
Andrea Barrett - I had the great pleasure of spending a week with Ms. Barrett back in '93 at the Mount Holyoke Writer's Conference. A fine, elegant person. Although I wasn't a member of her workshop, we did sit next to each other during several meals and talked about everything from biology to Garcia Marquez to our favorite Far Side cartoons, which she mentioned in the inscription she wrote in my copy of Lucid Stars. Wonderful woman, wonderful writer.
J. Finn: I believe my pal Dooner was going for the alliterative joke there; I agree there is a lot to admire in the intellectual rigor and forthrightness of many Jesuits. Besides, Jedis really look like Post Modern Franciscans.
May the Force Make You a Chanel of Peace,
Mark
Harlan,
I think you'll find what you're looking for if you go to www.bookfever.com and fill in the search form thusly:
Author: Alfred Bester
Title: Demolished Man
Keyword: Galaxy
This netted me a listing of the set of three issues in "near fine" condition with "only minor wear" for $75.
Hope this helps.
Steve J.
Steven Dooner,
I know you were joking, but something about your Jesuit joke just rubbed me the wrong way. Maybe I've known far too many decent and hard-working Jesuits, but lumping them (even in a joke) with Jews For Jesus (possibly one of the goofier evangelical religions ever) just kind of grated on me.
However, line itself about telling the Jedis and the Jesuits apart, is funny as hell. Know I have a vision in my head of the Jesuit in the movie "Elizabeth" pulling a lightsaber as he comes to assassinate the queen...
Regards,
Mr. Humorless,
Joseph
Lillian is an idiot
That's "The Demolished Man" I was talking about, of course. And I did see the original magazine publication -- with the brilliant preface -- at Stark's, once upon a long ago. When I interviewed Bester in 1974 -- for an article about Schwartz, strangely enough -- he told me he cut it because the publisher insisted: length reasons.
THE STARS MY DESTINATION
Harlan -- If Ben Stark in Richmond Calif. is still with us, he might have those issues on hand. Of course, I saw them 35 years ago.
Have you posted your eulogy for Julie yet? I'm going through my photos and choke up whenever I find a picture of the old boy -- which is often: he was great subject matter in addition to everything else.
A LITTLE HELP, PLEASE
I have need of copies in very good shape, of the January and February and March 1952 issues of the digest-sized GALAXY SCIENCE FICTION magazine containing parts 1, 2, & 3 of Alfred Bester's THE DEMOLISHED MAN. If anyone out there wants to clean out some of his/her collection, or has duplicate copies, or wants to make a few bucks, just let me know. Name your price, or we can work an exchange, whichever. I've tried a.libris and e.bay and Amazon, but have had no luck. Some of you have other venues you browse, so you might be able to steer me to a site where I can avail myself. Please.
And, thank you.
yr. pal, Harlan
(One of the fun things about watching DVDs of _The West Wing_ when I'm home sick: all those wonderful character actors turning up in small roles. Edward James Olmos as a Supreme Court nominee, James Hong as a Chinese ambassador, John Amos as a Joint Chiefs of Staff officer, Stockard Channing as the First Lady, and just now, Roger Rees as a dessicated British diplomat.)
I know I've talked about a Big Unpleasantness that lost me a few friends back in 2000, namely, my despicably taking my vote away from its rightful owner, Al Gore, and giving it to evil Ralph Nader.
When I was having some back-and-forth with those friends at the time, I made an argument that's come back to me recently. It came when a friend made the argument that voting for Nader was, objectively, a pro-Republican act. Given the stakes, the closeness of the race, and much more, any effort that failed to support the placement of Gore in the White House was, objectively, working to support George Dubya.
At the time, I tried to explain why this was a fascist outlook. By that argument, I'd said, one could accuse the supporters of Bill Bradley of being, objectiely, pro-Bush. After all, Gore was the vice-president, the front-runner, the chosen favorite of the DLC. It was clear that he would be the candidate of the party. But some Democrats insisted on "wasting" their efforts on a "spoiler" like Bradley. Therefore, using the same logic arrayed to cast Nader as a spoiler, one could make the same case against _any_ Democrat who was not, er, um, "electable" or the clear front-runner.
This came back to me today as I read accounts of how many Democrats are asking Howard Dean to withdraw from the race. As I've said before, I'm not a Dean supporter, but I did admire the way he'd brought some solid Republican-bashing into the campaign. And the reaction of Democratic conservatives to his campaign was, IMHO, a nasty mirror of the anti-Nader campaign. I fully expect the coverage of Dean to turn even nastier, as we begin to hear that "Party leaders" and "Party members" have begun "pleading" with Dean to bow out gracefully like a good boy.
So is it any surprise that I should be feeling very, very desponded about the Democratic party these days? I mean, here are the worst elements of the Party flourishing under the candidacy of a man who, frankly, ain't great shakes as far as accomplishment or forthrightness is concerned. Look at the evidence of fear. Kerry's support rests not on hisaccomplishments or his inspiring personality, but because he might be appealing to those who might also be persuaded to vote for Bush (not the best audience to seek approval from, BTW). The Democrats are _afraid_ to nominate an actual Democrat.
God, this is disgusting.
On Bill Dignin...
Harlan,
Every once in a while, I still watch the clip you made for Galaxy years ago, where you tell a wonderful story of you and Bill Dignin's attempt to get 'Dimensions' out in a timely manner. It breaks my heart every time.
We lose stories and memories and the warm pieces of our past unless we put them to paper, as you've done. The performance-art piece called 'HARLAN ELLISON' you indulge us with keeps at least a piece of the memories going. Our good fortune is that, through the living monolith of your public persona, the words of your life are still there. That a person can pick up Jeffty is Five or the Hornbook and still find something, a resonance; we need not rely on our own tricky memories.
For Julie we have his stories, his verbal recountings of the oddest events, like the time he agented a story for H.P. Lovecraft. Both of your stories have created twenty-foot obelisks which, while cold at times, are solid and sheltering and willing to shield us from the poorer things of the world.
Perhaps a Thanatos mouth will open in your sleep.
"Death is like a thief who slips into your house in the night, taking a thing here and a thing there until one day you look around and discover there's really no reason to stay." - Neil Gaiman.
Emerging from the fog. Things will be better soon. Deep sleep and deep breathing. The pain WILL pass. Didn't I get over the death of Isaac? And Eddie London? And Bill Dignin? And Bob Bloch? And Stephanie Bernstein? And Alfie Bester, and Avram, and Piglet, and Emily, and Van? Didn't I? Didn't I?
Sure I did.
Harlan
Insulted!
ROB: I too am insulted by the unknown poster for he knows full well that I, yes I, am the "most slovenly reader of posts" here. How dare he suggest that there is contender for my title! Not Frank, nor Cindy, nor my good friend Mark Walsh reads with the ennui and disinterest that I do. Harrumph!
Steve Dooner
(Vote Kerry!)
Andrea Barrett
***For what it's worth...I have read all her books. She's excellent. I'm surprised to see her name come up here!!
I aint anyone's running mate. Got that Dorman? I am a force of nature all my own. Like the one bolt of lightning that hits a bank, but misses the homeless guy talking about Jesus into his hand. We need men like that. Hell, he would make a better President then the soppy little war criminal fuck we have now.
-------------
Rob, don't worry, I was more offended then you were, when they compared you to me. I love you like Satan's nuts, but we are miles apart in the personality parade.
We will be best friends one day, I predict. But, no touching my Prince bobblehead.
---------------
That John Edwards is just so gosh darn decent he bores the Pope. At least Clinton tooted the hash pipe.
But his wife would make a good first lady, because Kerry's wife scares the shit out of me. Sure she is smart, but her corporate pedigree could get Kerry in hot water.
Kerry just looks more Presidential. Edwards looks too boyish. He might make the keen boy of the month in Tiger Beat, but as President, you should have a bit of peach fuzz on your nads.
Barney,
After reading "TOO MUCH JESUS MAKES CINDY'S ASS HURT" while drinking soda... I shorted the monitor.
This means I will be selling bumper stickers and t-shirts of that phrase (with or without clever graphic) online. I figure if it made me laugh not knowing what the fuck you were talking about, the kids today will take to it as the new "All your base are belong to us"
No, you can't have the proceeds until the monitor is paid off. Cindy, my dear, you can have them for free. :)
Re: Challenges from the linguistically & visually challenged
ROB: I decided to take Barney's advice (to the always lovely Cindy) and make use of any opportunities that arise to cobble up interesting subject lines.
Not to worry: I wasn't getting defensive in my last volly toward your side of the court (I was hoping all of those "mosts" -- and versions thereof -- would give my attempt at dry humor away). By the way, you didn't actually tweak Thoreau's quote -- you simply used it. Finally, after reading that line where you said that in my last post the "argument actually served my point in an indirect way," I gotta tell ya: You are prime material for a job in politics. The way you are able to blitely ignore the substance of a what a person said (or wrote) and then publicly claim that he or she was merely reiterating what you said is fucking brilliant. I'm heading out tomorrow to get some custom bumper stickers made up --ROB for President in 2020!-- 'cause I plan to be way ahead of the game. (Perhaps FRANK could be your running mate). In the meantime: Kerry&Edwards in 04!
--DTS
Oh, Christ. Rob said something I actually agree with (re: "...paltry party days in the National Guard." etc.) and he said it coherently. Maybe I'm coming down with something.
Also, I just love that word that Enright came up with: contumely. Faaaaaaan-tastic. I will now use it in all conversation even when not appropriate. (I swear by http://www.m-w.com/home.htm. Quite literally the best thing on the web. Ok ok ok, porn's the best thing on the web, but still...the dictionary is up there. Oh, one other thing. I've found that shouting "ergo" or "concordantly" a la Will Ferrel works in any and all situations where the argument gets heated or out of hand.)
I DO NOT WEAR A BAG ON MY HEAD
...WHO the hell ya callin’ a slovenly reader, unknown fucker? Hey! I read EVERY other paragraph - EVEN looking away from the tv now and then while I’m doing it!
Frank ALWAYS misreads shit. More often than I ever did. I beat on him for it so many times my mighty knuckles are splitting. Just check the archives. So why, in my ADD innocence, am I being paired with HIM?
To be paired with Frank...
YOU want a suicide on your conscience? Is THAT it?
DTS,
I probably sounded like I was challenging you in my last post and I think others read me that way too. I wasn’t.
The facts you raise are indeed frustrating. Just look at my past barbs at "the masses" and their illiterate lemming-like tendancies and you KNOW my feelings about it.
But I tweeked the Thoreau quote for my own intentions, since I was strictly responding to comments (not yours) to the effect that "no way could Kerry beat Bush"; when right now it’s looking otherwise. And your argument actually served my point in an indirect way.
Cindy,
Re: Edwards. That’s why I think he’d make a helluva running mate with Kerry. Not just because of their offset appeal but because they would probably have a positive influence on each other. There is a strong energy there. If they DON’T team up I think they are being tactically foolish.
I’ll be frank with you, though, about your claim that you would "trust" Edwards. He, like Kerry, opposes this "welfare for the rich" mentality inherent in the Republican pretense. So, I have to wonder if you’d seriously support him if he won the nomination. I doubt you’d vote for him.
(Let’s see how much I missed while reading YOUR post)
On another front: I hope the Democrats finally knock it off with this evasive quibbling about Bush’s paltry party days in the National Guard (I have to question Michael Moore’s wisdom right now; across the spectrum, I empathize much more with Al Franken). No one cares about that. I don’t care about that. It’s an unnecessary ploy. They have plenty ammo in current events. The Democrats are trying, I think, to get even with the Republicans for the low contemptible shots they took in the Clinton era. But it may well backfire if they don’t knock it off. It’s a stupid tactic.
FRANK,
The fact that you can’t even spell Chaplin tells me what you know about him.
Todd
Usually just read but I had to respond to your rhetorical strategy, Toddy. First, you say you can imagine Democrats hoping for a terrorist attack. Then you use your imaginary scenario to make very real attacks on persons of a Democratic persuasion. Such a questionable approach makes me think you might be castrating orphans. I would never condone the castration of orphans. That's why I'm the moral superior of anyone who disguises contumely as debate.
Dept. of things that make me wince.
In each of my last two posts I seem to have developed some sort of digital stutter. While a sane person would simply shine it on I am going to revisit them and see if I can't do better.
First we have this travesty,
"Probably the most memorable line for me in JEFFTY IS FIVE - a story so filled with memorable lines that it probably breaks some literary law of probability - is,"
Oh sweet jumping Jesus. It is as though the idiot third copy of Michael Keaton in MULTIPLICITY typed that sentence. In fact, as I sit here and stare at it I cannot bring myself to re-write it into English. It reduces me to fits of weeping and drooling. It unmans me. Let's just say I liked the story. Without putting two qualifiers in one sentence.
Then we have - and it bugs me because it was in the middle of my Julie post - this monkey pawed wonder...
Sigh... Nope. I can't do it. Won't do it. I just looked at it again and I cannot make my hands perform the copy/paste function. But if there is a digital hiccup swear jar for putting "you" in one sentence three times then I will scuff my toe in the dirt and pony up. Damn.
Since I'm here now I might as well mention the other non-Twain thing that has captured my attention this week - SERVANTS OF THE MAP by ANDREA BARRETT. Her previous novel is VOYAGE OF THE NARWHAL. I see she is a National Book Award winner and she also wrote the story collection SHIP FEVER. While I cannot speak to the specific strengths of either of these books save to say the Norton hardcover edition of NARWHAL sure looks pretty on the shelf, I can say many nice things about SERVANTS OF THE MAP. But since repetition is my curse I will say just one. The opening novella/title piece reminded me of the mountain sequence from SEVEN WHO FLED. I cannot imagine what praise there is that could top that so I will quit while I'm ahead.
CINDY - You really should put headers or titles in your posts. They do wonders to establish a certain tone. For instance I think your previous post could have started with;
TOO MUCH JESUS MAKES CINDY'S ASS HURT AND OTHER THINGS I HAVE LEARNED.
That'll get their attention in the cheap seats. Also, stop watching FOX. ;-) ps. I got your note. Thanks. Get back to me on the mad cow thing I sent you.
- Barney
NPR Salutes Julie Schwartz
Towards the end of Sunday's Weekend Edition, there was a short chat about Julie's passing with the guest host Michele Kelemen and legendary DC artist Joe Kubert. He recalled the time Julie spotted him in a car with a beautiful redhead, the woman who eventually became Julie's wife!
If you want to hear the segment, go to: http://www.npr.org/rundowns/rundown.php?prgId=10&prgDate=current and click on this audio segement:
Julius Schwartz, Force Behind Comics' Silver Age, Dies.
cmb
Yeah, what the guy with the bag on his head said.
(By the way, DTS was also dead on accurate nailed it with the asssessment of the younger Georgie. I'm wondering if the elder ever looks at Barb and kinda shakes his head everytime he sees his youngin' on the tv.)
Edwards will do better than you guys think he'll do come Super Tuesday. It must be noted that in all the lead-in to Iraq, I sent a few emails to my reps there in the gubmint of the good ol' US of A and Edwards responded within 3 days. Dole didn't get back to me until 3-4 months later, but by that time it was kinda pointless.
Edwards gots my vote.
Reading posts
FRANK: Regarding Lansdale's post and whether or not anyone noticed: You now share the distinction of being neck-and-neck with Rob for "Most Slovenly Reader of Posts." Check the DTS entries buddy boy.
Eric, the economy is not doing well at all. We have more than two million unemployed. Many have gotten frustrated with looking, and have abandoned job hunting. Food banks get harder to fill. Real wages steadily decline, compaired with inflation. Unions are being decimated. Sure, we are doing great. Bush is toast.
Todd, we want Kerry because we don't want to see the country go to hell. It is republicans who secretly want the poor to get poorer. Then you blame their problem on lack of personal responsibility.
Wise up, mon ami.
-------------
Chaplan is at his best in his silent films. He has to try harder. His body moves and antics help the comedy along.
I still think the Circus is his best film. That last scene is so sad.
-----------
How come noone noticed Joe Lansdale was here?
A candidate for U.S. house of representatives in our new district 11, came to my little town a couple of months ago. He started out talking about " the Lord" and continued to do so until I noticed my butt starting to hurt in the hard wooden chair. This is a bad sign for anything; movies, concerts, presentations ANYTHING.
Clinging to the precipice of certainty that he was the embodiment of Martin Sheen's Character in The Dead Zone I was in the process of mentally writing him off when he suddenly shifted gears and started talking about the issues. He was completely kick ass when it came to everything that mattered. After the speech I went over to his campaign manager--Craig Bergman, who had been Alan Keyes campaign manager during the last presidential election. I told him his man was peerless on the issues and that if he could get him a reined in on the Jesus-speak he would stand a helluva chance of whipping the opposition. He laughed. I explaind to him that I am a Christian but if someone runs at me shrouded in a flag of loud Christianity I narrow my eyes and look more closely to see what he is hiding underneath.
Aaaanyway, the candidate came back through here recently and lo, he was no longer the religious zealot from before. He had become the guy with all of the answers to fix the country. His name is Bill Lester. Remember it because he could end up being a force down the road.
Cindy
Frank,
My goodness-- I wasn't expecting you to shove me into the mud! We're FRIENDS!
Southern candidates ARE somewhat biased against some yankee candidates-- but not always. We loved JFK down here and he was as yankee as Ted. As for y'all voting for Southerners like Jimmy Carter and Clinton-- I don't beleive I'd be crowin' about that too loudly.
;)
Cindy
Rob,
I listened to John Edwards last night on CNN. He gave a speech and almost every issue he addressed I was in agreement with. I think he could beat W. like a redheaded stepchild if the Dems would open their ears and listen to him. He has correct ideas and the only thing that made my knee jerk was his idea to derail the tax cuts Bush implemented. I like those tax cuts.
Cut something else-- like corporate welfare.
I am one issue away from voting for John Edward myself. How does he feel about partial birth abortion? This is a litmus test for me because it will indicate whether or not he can think for himself. I don't want a party animal-- I want a thinking man. Give me a thinking man and I won't care if his party of choice is Mardi Gras.
I CAN'T wait to see the upcoming debates between KERRY and EDWARDS this should be rich.
Cindy
Brian,
Thank you. It isn't often that we land on the same side but I like it when it happens.
I hope you get well soon. Flu sucks. I don't take the flu shots either because I have brain damage from a car wreck that left me paranoid and distrustful of the government.
As for Chaplin, my mother's favorite film is Limelight. She hadn't seen it in years and years and I found a copy of it for her. She said the music was the part that haunted her over the decades. I watched it. It had some funny scenes in it. There was one part in particular in which Calvero slaps the girl who has hysterical paralysis-- that was the funniest scene I have ever seen in a film. I replayed it back over and over again and laughed until I could barely sit up straight. I'm certain it was not intended to be funny, but I would be curious to know if this scene had the same effect on anyone else or if I am just twisted.
:)
Cindy
Devouring the past
Probably the most memorable line for me in JEFFTY IS FIVE - a story so filled with memorable lines that it probably breaks some literary law of probability - is,
"Nowhere in the beast books, where survival is shown in battles with claw and fang, tentacle and poison sac, is there recognition of the ferocity the present always brings to bear on the past. Nowhere is there a detailed statement of how the present lies in wait for What-Was, waiting for it to become Now-This-Moment so it can shred it with it's merciless jaws."
OK, that's two lines. Nevertheless, those lines hit me like some sort of gentic memory when I first read them and they haunt me still. It's odd because as I re-read them this afternoon they seem like something Harlan should be writing "now" as someone who is, well let's just say past middle-aged unless you're a character in a Heinlein novel. And yet, doing the math and allowing for a brief period of literary gestation, those words were written by someone two years younger than I am now. Looking at what the world did to itself between 1934 and 1975 I suppose that's not so odd after all. Especially if we throw into that heady mixture of near history what burning the candle at both ends for 40 years does to ones sense of time and the past.
All of that was preamble to a book I want to recommend to the group mind here. The book is THE FUTURE OF THE PAST by ALEXANDER STILLE. It is to me, simply stunning. Everything that Harlan intimates in those two poetic lines is explicated in the 340 pages of this book. It starts with the various attempts to preserve the Sphinx over the last 600 years, with the stupidest and most harmful efforts being performed in 1987, and ranges up to our failure to capture the recent past by digitization, since most information stored on punch card and magnetic tape in the 1960's and 1970's is effectively already gone. Add to this an examination of China's culturally alien notions on how to conserve the past - a concept which goes right to their idea of what actually constitutes an "original" artifact and I submit that this book will alter the way you see damn near everything around you. And, AND, some of the Chinese material was written in 1997 and that China is ALREADY GONE!
So, THE FUTURE OF THE PAST by ALEXANDER STILLE. FS&G press / ISBN# 0-374-15977-7. There may also be a trade edition by now. Unless you're reading this in the future in which case it's out of print. ;-)
- Barney
On Chaplin. I went through a phase when I loved watching his old silents, because that year, he'd turned up at the Academy Awards and suddenly PBS was showing a lot of old Tramp shorts. Hell of an education.
But the real interesting Chaplin for me was his sound-era stuff. It's not because it's any good. In fact, some of them, like _A King in New York_, are pretty fuckin' dreadful. In that particular film, Chaplin plays a king left penniless after a popular revolt, winding up in NYC with nothing but atomic secrets which can bring about world peace. It doesn't really feel like a movie from its time-- in fact, it feels more like a movie made within the world of a situation comedy of that era. The dialogue is bright and sparkly and clever and dreadful, and Chaplin himself is more like an elf than a monarch. It's as though Chaplin thought that style and delight and magic would tide him through everything.
The same with _Monsieur Verdoux_. Sure, there are a few decent gags. (The opening shot of Chaplin in his garden, while thick black smoke roils from a backyard oven, is wonderfully sick.) But it's not easy going, especially since Chaplin is such the endearing Chaplin that we can'treally imagine him murdering anyone. Even his rationale, comparing arms dealers to his own amateur accomplishments, feels more like an affected dilettante's "witticism" than anything else.
So what is interesting about sound-era Chaplin? Well, part of it is the odd feel of his movies. It's a film grammar spoken by the ma who practically invented it, so it doesn't have the same fluidity and polish of someone who grew up immersed in it. He's found the tools he likes to work with, and that's that.
For me, Chaplin was sort of a last voice of the Belle Epoque. Yes, he did address Hitler and technology, but his intellectual world was pretty much structured before WWI: a world of kings, of European customs and tastes, of Victorian sentiment and socialist progressivism, and a now-touching faith that the world would improve. Even such "black" comedies as _Verdoux_ can't match the cynicism that the 20th century gave others.
Thank you, Lee.
Susan
Sad, but true: Deb and I are at a stop light in Sun City, AZ. The car in front of us has a Nevada plate; the kind that you purchase specifically to make a point about yourself and your thoughts.....not the standard Nevada plate.
It was one of those "we love the environment plate."
As the light turned green, down rolled the car's window and out was flung a smoldering cigarette butt straight into the environment.
Sad, but true.
-TODD
Today on "CBS Sunday Morning," Julie Schwartz was the subject of their "Passing" segment. Osgood spoke highly of Mr. Schwartz, crediting him with the superhero Renaissance in comic books in the 60s. It was great to see such a nice rememberance on a show not known for its interest in comic books.
Mark
Just back from Boskone, and that somewhat surreal, alternate lifestyle feeling associated with a Science Fiction and Fantasy convention was considerably magnified by holding it next door to a Jews for Jesus convention on one side and an American Choir directors convention on the other. Sharing the hallways was particularly interesting, one could not tell the Jedis from the Jesuits.
ON CHAPLIN: Monsieur Verdoux is a tremendous film--I love Chaplin as a serial killer. I found out recently that Orson Welles gave Chaplin the story, so that movie now marks the convergence of two of my favorite film-makers. When I was a kid, it seemed like whenever documentaries wanted to show how silent stars did not cross over to soundies, they would show a clip from Monsieur Verdoux--which annoyed me intensely. People expected Chaplin to play the little tramp forever, but after The Great Dictator, he went into new areas--and they are worth really looking at. I like Limelight very much as well, but I'm not sure everyone here would agree with me on that one.
It's not "very sad," Todd, it just reflects my priorities, which are not gas prices or retail sales figures. I personally am more concerned with issues like environmental protections, preservation and enhancement of civil liberties, social fairness and opportunity for all our citizens, rational diplomacy in partnership with other countries, and the restriction of unbridled coporate power.
All of on which Bush flunks. F's across the board, one of the worst Presidents in modern history. I think you'd need to back to Hoover for a comparison, and even he at least had some brains.
So yeah, I DO hope I'm wrong, because if anything is "very sad," it's the current vision and abilities of our leadership. Even sadder is that most Americans do just vote with their pocketbooks, to the detriment of their own and their children's future.
One more time, with feeling...plus a Hey! to JOE and some Music
ROB: The mass of men also don't read carefully (check those opening sentences and you'll find I rephrased Thoreau's quote to better fit this "brave" new age). What's more, the mass of men don't always get their facts straight: yes, "Dubya" was leading Gore in the polls before the 2000 election, and yes it was a close race -- but, if you recall, Gore (the incumbent) actually _won_ the popular vote -- as for the electoral vote and the Supreme Court decision about the Florida screw-ups...well, we won't revisit _that_ long and polarizing debate again. But the facts are this: most of the people in this country tend to lean toward the conservative side of things; most of them can be fooled most of the time; most of them will allow fear to cloud their judgement; most of them can be counted on NOT to "rock the boat" and try to change things (status quo can be quite comforting to most); most of them love politics slathered with (Christian) religious, feel-good phrases and pseudo-patriotic blunder; most of them DON'T vote (when they DO vote) with their intellect, prefering to rely on their gut instinct...which most likely led them into the many bad relationships (work and personal) that they've had in their lives. Mostly.
JOE LANSDALE: Good of you to drop by and pay your respects. SUNSET AND SAWDUST is a magnificent piece of work. And Sunset is one of your best characters. (For the rest of you, that new novel by "His Own Self" will be out next month -- DTS sez, pick up a copy -- you'll enjoy it).
ONE MORE THING: I forgot to mention music in yesterday's post. I picked up her album last summer, and kept forgetting to rave about it: THE SOUL SESSIONS by JOSS STONE is one of the most beautiful and (yes) soulful debuts I've heard in a long, long time. Like Janis Joplin, Van Morrison and Valerie Carter, she proves that white folks can be blessed with just as much "sertsa" as our black brethren (and if I'm gettin' evangelic on your butts, sorry --great music tends to bring that out in me). The music of Ms. Stone (a 14-year-old from England, fer chrissake!) SHOULD have been up for mulitple Grammys this year -- instead, they hand the awards and nominations out to the likes of Christine Aguilera, etc. I predict Ms. Stone will have a long, and distinguished career. Pick this one up, folks. You will NOT be disappointed. (This recommendation comes with a money-back guarantee).
--DTS
DTS, BRIAN, ET AL
Thoreau: "The mass of men lead lives of quiet desperation." So do I except that mine tends to be very loud.
Whatever the outcome of the next election, the "masses" will have nothing to do with it. It will rest in the hands of the swing voters. A sliver of the population. So, since you guys aren’t speaking from facts but from your gut, let’s visit some facts for a moment: according to the polls if the general election were held right now, based on the swing vote, 53% would vote for Kerry, 46% for Bush. That's where the polls stand. At least at the moment. That’s why Kerry is being called electable. If the polls stay where they are it does NOT bode well for Bush; given this, the intense conviction from SOME of you (sounding like you haven’t been following this too closely) did take me a LITTLE off guard. You may STILL turn out to be right; a lot can happen between now and election time (that's the reason I was jesting with Cindy). Things could change entirely in another week. But for the moment Kerry IS literally - by the numbers - the electable candidate.
As I e-mailed Brian, after what happened in the last election, where Bush showed an early lead over Gore by a consistent but slim margin, I’ve come to trust polls more than I used to.
Either way a few of you are making it sound like it's going to be some sort of landslide. No way. Whatever happens it will be close.
On Kerry:
When I didn’t see much of him I disliked him. The MORE I’ve seen him the more I’ve seen a guy capable of hangin’ loose, being human, and being in control. That, at least, is the way it's been reading to me. Am I the only one here who saw that home video of his pretending to smoke a joint? It changes your whole perception of him. For the better where I’M concerned. If he keeps building his delivery, his ability to engage each individual, and his integrity he will have a solid chance. Nothing "inevitable". But a good chance. And if things by then are like they are now his chance SHOULD be excellent. But, of course, I'm not counting on anything.
CHAPLIN:
Monsieur Verdoux was made at the beginning of Chaplin’s creative decline. The Great Dictator was the last of several burnished masterpieces. Nevertheless, it had enough quirkiness to fascinate me; and in a time when many theaters refused to show his films - in this case, theological volatility led to some bannings at the urgings of the Catholic War Veterans - it demonstrated the kind of courage few directors were capable of then OR now. (I often pair Chaplin and Kubrick together because SO often someone was banning their asses somewhere, yet they never surrendered their artistic integrity)
David, I would REALLY like to find that documentary. Where did you catch it?
Eric sez: ".....right now, the economy is lurching along just fine. Gas prices are high, but stable. Unemployment is still the lowest around. People are buying crap right and left. I don't see this changing in six months. I hope I'm wrong, but I don't think I will be. "
How very sad. How very very sad. I can almost imagine Democrats rooting for more than just another economy crash, "Hey, if only we had some terrorists fly some planes into Las Vegas and the Empire State Building....yeah, then we might get rid of Bush."
When Clinton was in office and was running for a second term against the fairly weak tossaway Dole, no matter how much I loathed Clinton I never once thought to myself that I was hoping for people in my country to suffer just so he could lose the election. Not once. I applauded his work on the deficit and knew we would survive another four years of him as he presided over the country by living by the polls (unfortunately, how Bush is presiding today, and if you stopped demonizing him you would see that), and when you live by the polls you just play it safe.
But Eric's words are certainly shared by many Democrats today, and they are just as bad as saying, "Damn, my own people are starting to find work again and are able to live a semblance of a happy life....muthufuckas!!!!"
By the way, as a Yankee fan (another evil thing that I do), I must say the following: Fuck A-Rod. Whine an moan about the Yankees being able to buy up the world, but I would rather have kept Soriano as a career Yankee. I wanted A-Rod to suffer in Texas after signing that contract instead of staying with the Mariners....as if Texas was going to win him a championship anytime this millenium. Anyone who signs for such money then cries that he's on a shitty team deserves to stay on that shitty team. Fuck A-Rod, sorry to see you go Soriano. At least the Yanks didn't let Texas get away scott free on the contract.....it will cost the Rangers a good $70 million or so just to dump the guy.
-TODD
Monsieur Verdoux
Among the greatest of Chaplin's films, and Louella Parsons (who attacked it for its morality) should only shift position on the red-hot waffle iron where she is destined to spend all eternity.
My Pal Dooner and I just returned from a fun-filled day at Boskone where we chatted with some mighty-fine folk (George R R Martin, Stephen Baxter, Ellen Kushner and Paul Levinson) and paid our membership fees to Noreascon '04. Harlan, will you be attending? Will it depend if you're up for a Hugo? And who else here is planning on putting in an appearance? Let us know so we can seek you out and say hello or smack you with a three-day-old scrod. Whatever.
Best,
Mark
checking in
Harlan:
Thanks for calling Friday to express your support; sorry I wasn't home to take it, and that it was the one day so far I've forgotten to take my brand-new cell phone with me, to the temp job I was doing to bring in a few shekels.
My wife Carole said wonderingly that you always sound so sweet and gentle when she talks to you on the phone, nothing like that fire-breathing public image you have. Of course he does, I said; he's a performer. He knows how to play to a crowd in public, and some people take the performance for the man. I have something of that in me, too -- one of the few things we DO have in common -- and I've had a lot of people develop intimidation complexes about little ol' me for stupid and superficial reasons, so I know what that's about.
Anyway, sorry I didn't catch your call, but thanks a lot, friend.
Everybody else:
I just caught Richard Shickel's new documentary about Chaplin. Excellent job! Balanced portr4ait of a cinematic genius and tortured and selfish soul all in one. There's appearances by Woody Allen, Martin Scorsese and Milos Forman, as well as many biographers, critics, and fans (including Robert Downey, Jr., Marcel Marceau and Johnny Depp).
I especially appreciated the attention they give to some of the artistry of the lesser-known works like "A Woman of Paris" and "Monsieur Verdoux" (Scorsese talks about that one a lot).
Catch this one if you can. I'll probably write up an in-depth piece about it for DocumentaryFilms.net in a few days. . . .
A salute to accurate reporting.
During last year's vacation we checked into a small hotel on the Oregon coast. After dropping the suitcases, I turned on the TV in an attempt to find a station crawl with local weather news. I ran across a sketch starring Art Carney and stopped to watch. I knew it wasn't anything from the last decade since the videotape had the slightly fuzzy look that late '60's and early '70's tapes get, so I figured I'd try to find a cable listing at the commercial break to see what it was that I'd stumbled upon.
The sketch ended and a young girl appeared on camera, and I burst out with a bad word so loudly my wife came running in from the next room to see what had happened to me.
Trust me, the description from "The Glass Teat" for "What's It All About, World" is stone cold fact. It was the little girl that Mr. Ellison described, and she *did* have a face that brought to mind the dolls from the film "Barbarella," and she *did* look as evil as one of the Borgias. I have no idea what cable network is rerunning this gem (although I bet the execs all voted for Bush), so I can't tell you who to blame, but any piece of writing that short and accurate should get the recognition it deserves. I now return you to your regular forum
Julie
I miss Julie. He was a wonderful man and made my childhood brighter by means of D.C. comics. What a unique and loveable guy. Joe Lansdale
I'd like to give Cindy a small amount of support here, because the more I see of Kerry, the more I dislike him. I truly wish the Democrats would rally around John Edwards, who is impressing me more and more as a someone who could be more of a classic Democrat.
I'd like to point something out to y'all. Recent polls show that the main reason for Kerry's support is his alleged "electability." And as I hope we all know, this is one of the most nebulous qualities for any candidate to have.
Even stranger is when Democrats assert that Bush has made such a hash of the country that he's definitely going down in 2004. I'm all for that, of course, but it raises an interesting question. If victory is so likely, and Bush is so obviously a basket case, then why are the Democrats so insecure and worried that they have to support a candidate on the basis of "electability?"
It's odd, the way Democrats think: Michael Kisnley had a piece in _Slate_ about it that was pretty accurate. "Democrats are cute when they're being pragmatic. They furrow their brows and try to think like Republicans. Or as they imagine Republicans must think. They turn off their hearts and listen for signals from their brains. No swooning is allowed this presidential primary season. "I only care about one thing," they all say. "Which of these guys can beat Bush?" Secretly, they believe none of them can, which makes the amateur pragmatism especially poignant...Nevertheless, Democrats persevere. They ricochet from candidate to candidate, hoping to smell a winner. In
