Unca Harlan's Art Deco Dining Pavilion

Archive - 12/06/03 to 2/2/2004

Unca Harlan's Art Deco Dining Pavilion

Oh...oh good heavens...some of the lads have just brought something to my attention, and if possible we would like to revise our previous statement:

Secure in the knowledge that he may have had had quite enough rooting for one day, we at the IASE are 'cheering' for Mr. Ellison. Cheering.

We shall endeavour to give more thought to our press releases in the future. We would like to apologize to Mr. Ellison for any painful memories our previous announcement may have caused. Good day.

Harlan: I hope everything went okay. We here at the Institute for the Advanced Study of Ellisonology (IASE) are rooting for you!

J

And it's a tie....P.A. Berman and Scott Reeston for the Innuendo Award...

M. Ellison:

Here's a thought, if you're cagey enough.

During my college days, I volunteered to be examined by residents hoping to make a career out of malpractice. I cheerfully demanded that I be the lab rat for the proctology exams, much to the consternation of Mel and my friends.

So I stood bent across the examination table, feeling the resident converting his right index finger into a specialized medical probe with the snap of the rubber glove. I felt a quick involuntary breath spasm from the coldness of the digit, then the fun merrily began.

After a few moments of feeling around, the resident expression suddenly changed. "There's some blockage", he said, "Something that shouldn't be there. A bit more excavation ensued, and he looked triumphant at removing the obstruction.

"What is it?!", I said, feigning mock terror, "A tumor?!"

"No", he said, "It looks like at note.".

A small frown appeared on his face as he read:

"You're getting warmer..."

Scott

I guess I'm an exception to the rule, then: I've never had my innards pic'ed. Barely even an X-ray, last time done when I broke my arms in a basement-stairs fall when I was 16 or so. By and large, apart from the usual colds and flu bouts, I'm generally a healthy person.

Heck, I don't even get my _outside_ photographed very often.

Reading Peter Biskind's new book, about indie films and the Sundance festivals. Dunno how it makes me think: on the one hand, it shows how other people have "made it," so suddenly it seems possible; on the other, it shows _why_ othet people have "made it," and it makes me think that maybe that industry's best given a wide, wide berth, because what sane person would want to deal with a crew like that?

Damn, but we all must have the most photographed innards of any bunch I've ever encountered. Personally, I've had two colonoscopies, an endoscopy (down the hatch), and a laparoscopy (incision through the navel) and I have the pictures to prove it. I think I tie with DTS for Most Photographed Guts on Webderland so far, but I should get extra points for having my belly button invaded.

Though I imagine this ain't the man's first foray into internal photogenics, still, Harlan, wishing you the best on your various procedures. Please let us know how it all goes.

PAB

Recommendation
I stopped reading the newspaper comic seciton after Calvin and Hobbes ceased, and Gary Larson retired the Far Side. Just came across a reason to read them again......Get Fuzzy. Everyone's local paper may or may not have it, but for a good laugh, check it out on dubyadubyadubya dot comics dot com. Today's is especially funny, but the past panels are pretty darn good, too.

-Keith

HARLAN: Best of luck with your "procedures" (He said euphemistically). Remember, all is for the best in the best of all possible worlds.

Steve "Pangloss" Dooner

To the bitter Eagles fans: NYAH NYAH NYAH.

To the victorious New England fans: Good game and congratulations.

To the defeated, but not broken, Carolina fans (I think there may be two including myself): Surprised a lot of people at how well we actually played and there will definitely be a next time.

To all the folks replaying the scene in JAWS where they're discussing old wounds: Ok, that's enough. We get the point.

To Harlan's eye: Don't blink.

To Harlan's ass: Don't pucker up.

Good luck.

Lee: Merci, mon ami--- dear daughter will be thrilled.

Rob: yer killin me! Fantastic Voyage.....heeheeheeeeeeee

Harlan: Best wishes, hey why doesn't Hallmark make a card that says "Thinking of you on the occasion of your colonoscopy"? If it were me, I'd go for the Versed.

Or shortly into the procedure an unearthly voice shakes the walls of the exam room intoning, "DO NOT OPEN UNTIL DOOOOOMSDAYYYY."

An Image You Don't Want
At the start of the Colonoscopy procedure, the doctor finds out it's a portal playing stock newsreel footage from the 1930s...

Most humbly and respectfully, I say Fuck the Panthers. Fuck Jake Delhomme. And Fuck the South too just because I'm being mean.

Sincerely,
A Bitter Eagles Fan

“I can’t believe that only yesterday I had ‘em out in snowsuits chopping ice with the golf clubs.”

- Linda while mopping up a trail of freshly thawed mud from the living room floor.


Dorie –

I mailed off the magazines Saturday. Got a good one with an Orlando Bloom interview in it, all in French.

And there’s even a fold-out poster in which he sports a ridiculous hair style with manly self-assurance!

The nobility of the defeated South
Let any yankee take undue pride at his own risk in the narrow triumph of the New England Patriots over noble Jake Delhomme and the scrappy Carolina Panthers. Next year all the way.

And Harlan, endure your disgusting medical trials with the same scrappiness and will to endure as shown by Louisianan Delhomme. (Both you and Julie ill -- that's unendurable.)

The "Procedures"
Harlan,

Perhaps they could pipe in Robert Klein's "Conoloscopy" song to sooth your jangled nerves.

BTW - Lasik on the same eye with the intra-ocular implant??

I had a colonoscopy in 2001, before my surgery to remove my colostomy bag. Because things were...umm...closed up, they went through the stoma, or the piece of intesting sticking out of my belly. I was very much out of it but remember watching the monitor and asking the doctor for a video. Out in the recovery room, coming back to what resembles (for me) my right mind, the doctor came out and handed me digital photos of the colonoscopy. They hang on my refrigerator. I even signed them. Someday, they'll go up on eBay.

Oh, I had the throat scope, too. I woke up choking on it at one point and needed to stay in the hospital overnight. My face was bright red from having choked so damn hard.

Take care,
Bill

WHERE NO MAN HAS GONE BEFORE
ELLISON: Buck up, ya whimp! I've had the colonoscopy once already (they virtually knock ya out) and the other procedure (the camera down the throat bit) three (count 'em, three!) times already. And the first two times I had 'em do it _without_ any anesthetic (gave me new found respect for some of the things I've seen done in porno flicks). They wouldn't let me do it sans anesthesia the last time since they were shovin' a camera up my butt as well (and you thought YOU gave out too much info). As for the eyes, well...I once took a rock in the eye if that counts (lucked out -- just some stitches). Quite yer whinin'!
Sympathetically yours,
Dorman

Under the heading of TOO MUCH INFORMATION
or...CHARTER YACHTING IN YOUR COLON:

...uuuhhhhh!!...Thank you, Harlan. Thank you.

Yes...ooomffff!...it was a BIT more than I dun needed t'know.

Just thinkin' about it, I've a feeling shortly after 9:30 tomorrow morning I'm gonna start walkin’ funny.

To ease things, if worse comes to worse during this intrusion upon our persons...oooffff!...you can always pretend you're watching a remake...aaahhh!...of FANTASTIC VOYAGE.

Alex Jay Berman,
I missed responding to your post before.
You are right-- mostly. I wasn't speaking of people, only monsters. Dahmer, Manson,Speck etc. Without EMPIRICAL proof that the individual is guilty, I stand solidly on your side.
yer pal,
Cindy


Mark O.
I missed your post before. I'm sorry for the delay.You are quite correct. Inmates SHOULD be treated humanely and served good food.
I'm a jailbird myself having served 7 hours in the Glenwood Springs Jail for being disorganized and forgetful. I parked in a place that I thought was okay-- I LOOKED for a no parking sign and found none. So when I got the parking ticket I was going to contest it. I forgot the date so they sent me a letter stating that I NOW owed them some 170 bucks. I was a single, destitue mother with lots of kids and $170 may as well have been 170 GRAND, so I was DAMN sure going to fight THAT judgement. But I forgot to go to court that day as well. They arrested me and hauled me to the cop car. I was an inmate at the same Garfield County Jail that Ted Bundy had escaped from. The food was DEVINE and they allowed me to get a book. I chose Peter Benchley's The Island. I didn't get the chance to finish it though because my best friend Becky phoned an attorney who had helped me once in a child support matter. He thought the orange jumpsuit was wildly amusing. He asked me when I was going to take the law seriously. I told him, "Now! I take the law seriously NOW". He bailed me out with his own money. I was fine until I got outside. Once I was by myself, I cried. It's very upsetting to be locked up in jail. I never got in trouble again.

YES, I do understand the importance of good food and kind treatment for inmates. You feel like the underside of a BOOT to begin with; bad food could be the final push over the edge.
>
Anyway, I don't think we're so far apart on this.

Welcome, Mark O. I'm glad you're here among us!
:)
Cindy



Harlan,
I'll pray for you tomorrow morning and Tuesday.
Like I haven't always.
:)

HARLAN: As someone who might have to undergo a similarly-invasive procedure, I empathize, and hope your week is as pain-and-discomfort-free as possible.

HARLAN: Colonoscopies are nothing. As I'm used to downing a quart of water in a sitting, drinking the gallon of electrolytes wasn't so bad (the taste wasn't horrible, just not good). The running to the bathroom afterward wasn't particularly pleasant, but I have a mild case of ulcerative colitis, so it wasn't anything I'm not used to.
The actual process was interesting: Found out in the process that Demerol is yet another drug which hasn't any effect on me, but there was only a slightly unpleasant pressure on my stomach from inside--nothing like a John Hurt Alien feeling, but still.

The reason I know this was because one of the drugs they were going to give me was Versed, a Valium-like drug, which induces a mild amnesiac effect--to which I said, "No, thank you, Charlie," and refused that particular part of the procedure. I have enough epilepsy-induced missing parts of mindtime, so voluntarily taking one more was anathema to me. Swiss-cheesed though it may be in places, my mind is all I really have, and I ain't about to muddle further with it.
(An yes; I do regard the semioblivion of sleep as an insulting imposition; which may explain why I've always had insomnia)

I further weirded out the docs and nurses by insisting I wanted to be awake to watch the procedure being done on the TV screen. It was very interesting; not disgusting at all (which was indubitably helped by the fact that my nethers had already been all cleaned out). Got to watch them remove several benign polyps, and marveled at the fact that my innards take on the shape of an equilateral triangle. I recommend that you do the same and watch; it mayu set some story ideas a-burbling up--though I should add the caveat that another weird hallmark of my own physiology is that I tend not to feel pain--or, rather, I feel it but ignore it. So I dunno if the feeling of pressure I felt on the stomach might translate in another person as, "Jeezus GOD! I'm about to give birth! Get Ripley and the Space Marines to get this muthafugga OUTA me!!!"

ON THE SUBJECT OF STATUES, MINIBUSTS, AND STUFF:
I thing Randy Bowen and his team are talented beyond measure--but I have to say that personally, I haven't any use for minibusts. If I want a depiction of a character whose exploits on funny little pieces of paper have thrilled me, I want them depicted in all their glory. The exceptions to this would be the Jack Kirby bust (even though I would much rather have a full sculpture of the King poised at his drawing table) and the Sin City Marv bust. But the designs of Randy's which really call to me are the Mage and Grendel statues--those are brilliant.

The statue I REALLY want, however, is not a Bowen design--it's the ministatuette of Spider Jerusalem from TRANSMETROPOLITAN done by William Paquet. Captures the spirit of the book and character beautifully. The other one I like, but not enough to hunt down on eBay, is the Jack Knight Starman statue, sculpted by Tim Richmond. I loved the book and loved the character, perhaps overidentifying with him.
And I have to say I lust after the Pogo and Albert Classic Comic Character statuettes from the series Dark Horse is putting out (sculpted by "Yoe! Studios")--but I just can't see shelling out fifty bucks for a three-inch Pogo or a five-inch Albert, no matter HOW nifty a collectors' tin they come in. After all, for the hundred bucks that they would cost, I could add fifty and get nine hardcover reprints of Pogo collections.

This is why I tend to prefer action figures; I view them as re-poseable statues. The new Jimi Hendrix Deluxe figure (with a backdrop which invokes Woodstock) now sits proudly on my coffee table, waiting for the happy day they come out with a Stevie Ray Vaughan figure; on the same coffee table sits the Electric Chair Sin City Marv as well as the Muppet Labs playset with Dr. Bunsen and Beaker my friend got me for a birthday. he other Sin City figure sits on the windowsill, along with the Beatles Yellow Submarine figures (fallen, regularly knocked over by the cats), and on my desk at work stand the Yellow Submarine Blue Meanie and the recent Captain America figures. And right behind this computer are the Spider Jerusalem, Grendel, and Kabuki action figures, though they, too, are often subject to knockovers.

If I had the room and the cash, I'd probably buy a lot of statues, but for now, action figures--especially with the detail of sculpting now put into them--will suffice.

Colonoscopy
Harlan, as Adam said, the preparation is annoying, the procedure relatively painless. Have a feast afterwards and a good, long nap. Also, don't sign anything lest in your groggy state you sign over the house, Susan, etc. to some nasty person.
Cheers, Colleen

Colonoscopy
And sorry, but in light of the last post I did think of one other thing to note, which is that a colonoscopy is a genuinely painless procedure; the REAL annoyance being the twenty-four hours of digestive preparation for same.

(Had one, about two years ago. The day before it was not pleasant. The colonoscopy itself was a non-event.)

Lasik
Well, as long as you don't need surgery on any of the gooshy stuff in between, you're in good shape.

(Good luck.)

Under the heading of TOO MUCH INFORMATION:

Tomorrow morning, nine-thirty, the colonoscopy procedure.

Wednesday, early morning, the lasik surgery on the right eye.

Why should I suffer alone. If I'm goin' down, I'll take the rest'a you fuggerz wit' me!!!

Harlan

Jay, that one takes me right back to high school....breaking into a chorus of "Bitter Dregs" was a guaranteed laugh. At one point I think we rewrote the lyrics: better drugs, it was....one of my school pals is now a well-known criminal lawyer whose face is always on the TV for high-profile cases...and nearly 30 years on, I can STILL get him to choke on his beer just by singing a few lines of that deeply moving ballad :)

SUSAN

I sent the check off today for the following:

DEMON WITH A GLASS HAND graphic novel. DC Comics, 1986.
OVER THE EDGE. Paperback, Belmont, May 1970. FIRST EDITION.
THE TWILIGHT ZONE #1. Comic Book. Newsstand cover.
SHATTERDAY. Hutchinson, 1982. British Hardcover.
DANGEROUS VISIONS--Sphere, 3-set edition.

I’d appreciate it deeply if you could go on and send over the ‘Beast

You just never know if international mail is going to take one week or one month!

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Tommy Allison posting from Minneapolis reminds me of another major BBQ mecca: Pig Market BBQ. My family is mostly from Georgia and Alabama, so I’m genetically pre-disposed to dismiss BBQ prepared north of the Mason-Dixon line. But in spite of it’s geographic handicap, the Pig Market BBQ is one of the best rib shacks I’ve ever been to. Beef or pork, with a good tomato base sauce that doesn't get too sweet. It's all about the meat at Pig Market, and in silent testament to the irresistibility of the product, the cook weighs at least 350 pounds.

And its antithesis
"....oh-ohhhh, bitter dregs."

"remember sammy jenkis"
I can hardly stand to hear, "The City on the Edge of Forever" and the name Gene Roddenberry spoken in the course of the same conversation.

I no longer equate the two. Nor do I equate "The City on the Edge of Forever" with that travesty that Roddenberry...shat (beg pardon).

It's come to this. "The City on the Edge of Forever" is an award-winning script by Harlan Ellison. That is what it is to me. Something important and no longer to be sullied by the ill effects of bad company.

I would like to point out that I have this learning disability that makes it difficult for me to memorize anything; (it limits my reading speed as well-which is hell). Children's birthdays, important meetings, they escape me. Half the time I cannot remember where I put my list of things to remember. I lost two Franlin Planners...last year alone. But I have memorized this from Unca Harlan's sterling script.

The line that made me weep:


Spock
(gently)
On my world the nights are very long.
The sound of the silver birds against
the sky is very sweet. My people know
there is always time enough for
everything. You could come with me
for a rest. You would feel comfortable
there.


It's time for my annual reading of "Grail", I can feel it.

"...there is always time enough for everything."



Humbly,

Neal

HARLAN: What an awful, nullifying, "rip your throat" violence it must have been to have a script that sang as well as "City of the Edge of Forever" trifled with by a fool who wrote bad episodes of Police Story. Let me just add, as one of the huddled millions, that we know "light-fingers" Roddenberry added insult to injury by pilfering ideas from your script. There in the second season of his show was the very "Pirate Ship" concept, cut from your script, as an entire episode. In another episode, I see people using gem drugs. Almost everything he criticized or cut wound up trickling into other episodes. If he complained that your script was unfilmable, why did he film it so goddamn many times.

I am also amazed that he stole liberally from your esteemed colleagues, including the wholesale theft of the Puppet Masters for one of his episodes. I know you are known to be a one of our most vocal defenders of art today, but it occurred to me, as you wrote yesterday, what a silence you have bourn over the years.

In lasting admiration of the work you have done,

Steven Dooner

WHEN THE SAINTS COME MARCHING IN

To Danny:

The Tulku turned Lamont Cranston into the Shadow and I don't think even HE could do what you just achieved: single-handedly turning Harlan into an Evangelist; 'least as close to it as he'll ever be. I'm awstruck. I'm thoroughly humbled. Yet, anything that makes the Man this delighted makes me happy too.

Having said that, I had a good time reading your reactions to CITY ON THE EDGE OF FOREVER as well.

And, shit, man, welcome to the War Wagon. We fight here. We drink here. We make merry.

Your comments compelled me to turn to Amazon.com and find some of those passages. I got sidetracked by something else. A problem with Amazon itself; one reminding me of the reason I avoid many sites these days and why Harlan himself reproaches the Internet for inaccurate statements and brashness.

Examples (though frivolous, perhaps, they demonstrate how inattentive people in e-commerce really are - which is my whole point):

"He (Harlan) wrote the original teleplay for the first Star Trek TV series' most popular episode (in which Kirk and Spock leap through a time gate into 1930s Chicago in order to prevent history being changed)..."

OK. Who cares where the episode was set, right? Yet, the Brooklyn Bridge - flashed memorably across the t.v. screen at one point - is a hard landmark to place in Chicago...at least in my mind.

"The long, rambling essay exorciates pretty much everyone ever involved with Star Trek. Ellison refutes every word of criticism levelled against his teleplay by Roddenberry, Shatner, et al., and he does it without his trademark black humour. Granted, it's hard to be humourous about things when Roddenberry and the hard-core Trekkies have been spreading mistruths about why your screenplay got hacked to pieces for the last thirty years, especially Roddenberry's blatant lie that Ellison had "Scotty dealing drugs," a lie Roddenberry continued to spread despite being corrected on numerous occasions. Still, Ellison's bitter catharsis is hard going. Ellison really could have used a good editor. And White Wolf publishing really could use a good copy editor. The essay is hard enough to follow without the _dozens_ of misspellings and grammatical errors that slipped through".

"Still, this is a must read for fans of Ellison and Star Trek, and a chance for both to think of what might have been"

OK. I'd have to look at the edition. I've looked at many, many books by Harlan; this is not among them. I can state nothing about supposed editorial problems therein. Yet, I've never found Harlan's "stream-of-consciousness" style essays tough to follow. In fact, they are relaxing, stimulating, personable, fun, and addictive. I found the passage to be condescending. That was MY reaction, anyway. I mean first it's long and rambling, as if failing in its objective; THEN it's a "must read" for fans.

In fact, for a site trying to sell its goods, there seemed to be almost a tone of underlying resentment in some of the comments; as if Harlan were dissolute for aiming so much criticism at hams like Shatner and Roddenberry.

I dunno. Maybe I'm a bit protective; but when heavy and possibly unfair criticism is directed at an author, higher expectations are held for factual accuracy - even in a plot summary. Otherwise, the arrogance is all I'm going to take home with me.

This is not the first time I've found gaffes in Amazon, either.

While I'm GLAD they outlined the history of that episode with accuracy - depicting Roddenberry in the role he REALLY played, they did it almost as if resenting Harlan for expressing himself as he chooses.

YOU did a much better job selling me on it than THEY did. Because you expressed a passion in the work. There is no better asset for a salesman and that's what Amazon needs to understand.

REPLY TO DANNY MARTINEZ

Blessings be upon your noble brow, Master Martinez. Welcome to our warm little burrow (aka "borough") and seven multimillion thankees for your salutary Star Trek observations. I am weeping without shame at your kindness and perceptivity.

After all these years of languishing in the keep of the evil tv producer, chained to the wall and being forced to watch reruns of Trek with my eyes wedged open using broken toothpicks (like Alex in A CLOCKWORK ORANGE), tortured endlessly with repetitions of Shatner monologues, hanging there like an unused glottal stop, the only light a fitful refraction of coaxial cruelty, my brain slowly turning to Cream of Wheat ... after all these decades of unjust calumny, at last one of the faithful has seen the truth and exonerates me from the vile accusations.

If I were a religious man, I would raise hosannahs ahigh to the blessed Saint Cindy, and kiss the hem of your alb.

Again, welcome to th'hood.

Yr. pal, Harlan

Old news to everyone but me
Hello, Harlan! I'm a casual fan of Star Trek, and just surfed here from Amazon.com, where I read an excerpt of your introduction to your book, "The City On The Edge Of Forever". I'm still laughing -- laughing with you. The first time I saw that Star Trek episode, at the tender age of *six*, it was bloody obvious that Edith Keeler's dialogue about a glorious utopian future fit in about as smoothly and unobtrusively as a robed Klansman at a NAACP meeting, and had been clumsily jammed into the script. They probably had to use a crowbar to do it. It was as if all action and dialogue had abruptly paused, Kirk and Spock had lowered their trousers and silently mooned the camera for five seconds, and then the episode resumed normally without any elaboration or comment. I didn't know much about writing, and still don't, but it was clear that something was, well ... *wrong*. But then again, any kid knows the difference between good storytelling and an awkward attempt to Preach A Message. So much for Roddenberry's skill at "cleaning up" a script! That episode is still one of my favorites -- they certainly couldn't ruin all of it -- but my reaction at reading your intro at Amazon was "oh, so *that's* what happened!" I've ordered the book, and am looking forward to reading the original script. Anyway, I know you've taken a lot of crap from the Trekkie crowd over the years, and I wanted to let you know that there are people out there who can tell the difference between good work and bad work ... and who know *mangled* good work when they see it, even if they don't know all the "inside story." Best wishes,

Danny Martinez

P.S. Lay it on me, Ellison!

What AMAZING Creations!!!!!!
How lovely!!!!!! How utterly charming!!!

I'm smitten with FIN FANG FOOM. What a delightful piece! THEN, poking around the website I found a relic from my youth-- a character beloved and yet forgotten. You could have bowled me over with an air fern when I stumbled upon Fritz the Cat!!! I couldn't BELIEVE it! Fritz the Cat. I was young enough that I thought he was only indigenous to Austin, relegated to the drag at UT. Geeze, Fritz the Cat.

FIN FANG FOOM AND FRITZ-- I LOVE it!

Thanks for pointing the way, I enjoyed the art immensely.

:)
Cindy


BRIAN,
The sure cure for what you describe is indifference. Either she'll change tack or she'll be your friend. If the former, good for you. If the latter, still good for you.

Good luck,
Cindy

CNN didn't have the quote, but the local rag has Kathy Cox saying that evolution is "a buzzword that causes a lot of negative reactions." Oh, really? And here I thought it was all the chocolate I was eating that was causing my negative reactions.

I didn't realize, though, that Linda Tripp changed her name and is now a state school superintendent in Georgia.

By the way, if anyone has ANY interest in the Super Bowl, no matter how slight, you must start reading the Sports Guy's blogs. Fantastic and funny stuff. Really. Go. Now. Read.

2nd post, because of my bad
Sorry, I was misinformed. A biology teacher told me that today, and I passed it on without confirming it myself. It's not true; Illinois does use "evolution" in its standards.

http://www.isbe.net/profprep/CASCDvr/pdfs/27150_biology.pdf

>This proposal is so moronic, even CREATIONISTS are up in arms about it. <

It's been standard policy in Illinois for years. Hopefully our Governor will be successful in eliminating our state board of education, per his plan.

Hello Mr. Ellison; long time reader, 1st time poster
I just wanted to say that I have enjoyed your works since 1981 (last year of High School) and I have several well worn copies of "Angry Candy" & "Gentleman Junkie" which I have lent to several associates. Let me know if you ever come to Jupiter and I'll buy you a decent meal.

Blee
Cheer up, Lurker Mull -- sometimes those drunken posts just get away from one like ice weasels galloping across the frozen tundra. Or minks. Or even fishers.

Come to think of it, 'Lurker Mull' sounds like an A.E. Van Vogt character.

TTFN, Jon

I'm at work, a grant's going out the door _on time_, partly because I'm so damn good at doing this stuff, and I can take a quick five-minute break.

To Jim Davis, who wrote: "As for Valentine's Day, I believe it was designed to pick off all the stragglers who didn't kill themselves earlier in the holiday season. Think about it: First you have Thanksgiving, then Chanukah, Christmas and Kwaanzaa, then New Year's, and then you finish it off with a day that SPECIFICALLY shows you up for the lonely, pathetic bastard you really are. Why not just call it You Will Die Alone And No One Will Discover Your Rotting Corpse For Weeks Until The Stench Forces The Neighbors To Call The Police Day, and be done with it?"

I hear ya, man. but we will _survive_, dammit.

To Harlan: Thanks for the heads-up on Ming and Flash. BTW, this April 1st, Disney's releasing a bunch of limited collectibles for _20,000 Leagues Under the Sea_. I can't wait.

Oh, and for everyone, the Voice of Sanity and Reason has been heard once again. Once again, it emanates from the throat of Katha Pollitt, and it can be read at http://www.thenation.com/doc.mhtml?i=20040216&s=pollitt

Highly recommended. Read it, and feel the caress of sweet reason.

Hola Harlan!!!!
Harlan!

Hope all is well with you. Things are good here in Minnesota. With the -40 windchills, and the frosted windows, it makes for inspired writing.

Finished Angry Candy which you sent. I'll hopefully be able to score some more books in exchange for some more statues from my shop.

Take Care my friend.

Tommy Allison

I apologize for the previous post. And I appreciate Justin¡¯s persnickety response. Honestly, brother.

It wasn¡¯t the best thing to do after a night of celebration ¨C too many beers, too much rum. ¡°Nancy [Whiskey, that is] cast her spell on me,¡± to quote Shane MacGowan, who, come to think of it, I shouldn¡¯t be taking cues from.
We¡¯d gotten to talking about some of our favorites, Mr. Ellison¡¯s name inevitably came up, and, once home, I decided to net and act on a thought that had fluttered through my mind when I saw his story in the anthology.
Like summer in Tucson, it just weren¡¯t cool, so I¡¯ll say it again, to Harlan, ¡°I apologize.¡±

By the way Justin, there isn¡¯t a writer on the faculty here, from full profs (among whom there are one or two damn fine fictioneers) to underlings such as myself, that would consider themselves a writing "instructor." There¡¯s simply no such thing, and anyone who claims to be is up to his, or her, eyeballs in pretentious bullshit.

Humbly lurking on,
John

The world is a cyclotron of stupidity #384,579

This just in:

Kathy Cox, Georgia's State Superintendent of Schools, wants to remove the word "evolution" from the science curriculum. Mind you, she doesn't want to ban the TEACHING of evolution, she just wants it to be called something else. This proposal is so moronic, even CREATIONISTS are up in arms about it. For the whole sickening story, go to http://www.cnn.com/2004/EDUCATION/01/30/striking.evolution.ap/index.html

As for Valentine's Day, I believe it was designed to pick off all the stragglers who didn't kill themselves earlier in the holiday season. Think about it: First you have Thanksgiving, then Chanukah, Christmas and Kwaanzaa, then New Year's, and then you finish it off with a day that SPECIFICALLY shows you up for the lonely, pathetic bastard you really are. Why not just call it You Will Die Alone And No One Will Discover Your Rotting Corpse For Weeks Until The Stench Forces The Neighbors To Call The Police Day, and be done with it?

(Don't mind me. A relationship recently went south, and I'm playing the part of Ol'Man Bitters to the hilt.)

(And a Happy Valentine's Day to Susan and all the other ladies of Webderland. Really.)

Bowen
Okay, never been a Flash Gordon fan, but what the hey - I love Bowen's work, so I figured I'd take a peek. Then I fell in love with one I hadn't seen before: Zorro!

http://www.bowendesigns.com/exe/product?section=miniBusts&product=11

My god, I must have that one. "Mark of Zorro" is still the epitome of a great action movie to me, and Bowen's design is just gorgeous.

(That said, I do have one other sculptor whose work I admire in this genre - Alex Ross, in the few that he has done himself, has done superb work. I especially like the one I have, of Wolverine from the "Earth X" series. I wish I had a better pic: http://www2.gol.com/users/wizz/AFS_LOGAN_MB.JPG)

Oh, and thanks for the recommendations, Alejandro.

Dear Harlan

Get well soon. Fill those eyes with more wonder. Muah!

Heather

I see the quality of creative writing instruction at the U of A remains consistent.

MULL:

Site, not sight.

"Huzzah" COMMA by the way.

Either request or question will do. “Request, question,” is daft as a sorority mixer.

The, not “th.”

“I, as I assume everyone else is, fascinated.” I is fascinated?

Heroes, not heros.

I hope that helps.

NOT a fucking writing student,

Justin

HARLAN: Sounds _very_ cool. (And there were probably a few guys, like me, who knew this was suggestion for women, but damn -- your teaser made it tough to resist asking). But since one has to go through several hurdles (registration, etc) to view some of the pieces, I may not actually see it till later today or tomorrow (Not being an everyday surfer, it took me three or four trys before realizing that in order to view what you described, one has to register; yes, I'm slow). Thanks for that very vivid descripton. (And sorry, everyone, for the mispellings below -- back to work!)
--DTS

Joseph:

It's okay, nothing really to get too excited about. Now, if you want some kick ass Mexican food, Adobo Grill and Nuevo León on 18th Street are the places to go.

I've benn told of some other very god Mexican restairants on 18th and 26th Street and some on Cermak that I have yet to try. But those two are really superb (the guacamole in Adobo Grill is, may I repeat myself?, to die for.

Alejandro

THE WONDERFUL GIFT!!!!!

When it arrived here two days ago -- as a gift from my friend, the sculptor, Randy Bowen, and his terrific wife, Rocky -- I couldn't believe the thrill that went up my spine. Now, maybe it's just me, but this is one of the swellest things I've ever received; and I realized, of an instant, that it was the perfect Valentine's Day gift for a woman to give to a male of her acquaintance.

(I was surprised at how many of you who wanted me to "lay it on' you, didn't pick up on the female-giving-to-male aspect. I mean, if a guy wants to buy it for himself, well, sure, that makes sense; but as an overage adolescent, I perceive that this is more a guy-thing than a unisex-thing, though I know there are oodles of women who enjoy the source material.)

Well, I won't keep you in suspense, not a moment longer.

Randy Bowen is to the current crop of sculptors of figural miniatures of comic characters and adventure fiction icons, as The Maracot Deep is to the puddles left when you watered your plants. His sculptures -- ranging from DC and Marvel and Dark Horse characters, to The Shadow, Zorro, the golden age Daredevil and dozens of others -- are splendid and spectacular. You can discern a Bowen out of a display of 50 different sculptural figures with one blink. They are the kind of artifacts that, were you ten years old again, you'd be the drooling envy of every kid on your block. They're the sort of wonder you'd take for "show&tell." What I'm babbling about is ART not cheap comic-crap produced from a vat. This is The Real Thing!

Well, Randy has just released a twin-pack of two mini-busts ... one of them is FLASH GORDON ... and the other is (wait for it)... MING THE MERCILESS!!!!! And, ogawd, they are nift-EE!

Each one is only 6 inches tall, a perfect height for bookcase or desk. They're fully and intimately painted. They're replications of the great Alex Raymond version of Flash and his nemesis. Their faces are real faces, not that goony, corny, plastic-frozen simulacra you see on "action figures." They come in a spiffy full-color box, packed like Faberge eggs. And for any guy who never grew up, this is THE offbeat, remarkable, the-guy-will-love-you-forever gift.

You should go to Randy's website at

www.BowenDesigns.com

and look at them.

The rest of Randy's wares are also not too dusty; but I warn you, once bought, lost forever. You'll go nuts over his artistry. But if you want to be safe, just show the website to your lady friend/wife/mother/whatever and look longingly.

IMPORTANT ADVISORY: I just called Bowen Designs to find out the price of the twin-pack. It's only $60 plus postage. But the catch is this: there are only a very few left. It's a LIMITED EDITION and people have been snatching them up since they were released a month or so ago.

In fact, if you are as impressed when you see the photos of them as I was when I opened my giftie, then you might just want to call direct: (503)786-0542.

If I turn you on to nothing else this season, I can go to my eternal rest knowing that anyone who gets Flash and Ming will have an Ellison-generated smile on his (or, hell, her) face for decades to come. Tell 'em "Harlan sent me" and you'll get preferential treatment ... unless they're all gone.

Yr. pal, Harlan (age 7)

Ummm..sock it to me...I mean "lay it on me, Ellison"

Advice for the lovelorn; joke o' the day
BRIAN: Just because _you_ felt there was something more to be pursued when you and the woman in question had friendly conversation and discussed things of an intimate nature, doesn't mean _she_ did. That's stating the obvious, but it seems to me that we men NEED to be reminded of the obvious where relations with the opposite sex are concerned. Even though you are being a gentleman and showing maturity when deciding to remain friends, you STILL had to convince yourself to do so. If the stituation involved a guy with whom you hit off well and felt comfortable around, and you weren't attracted to him, you wouldn't be fretting so much over the fact that you guys weren't an "item." Most of the friends I've had in life have been women; and, perhaps being an oddity, I've found 95% of them to be attractive, beguiling, cute, gorgeous, sexy, tempting...but I never acted (or thought of presuming to act) on those feelings unless the woman made it perfectly clear that she was interested in such actions. (Hhow's that for a messed-up sentence?) I really do believe we men can fool ourselves into believing that a woman wants more from us than she does -- which explains why we always trying to fix a "problem" when all a woman usually wants is a sympthetic ear. By the way (and you're required to take this with humor), anyone who turns down an offer of free books has got to question his judgement on various levels (I ended up giving those extra Dan Simmons books -- offered to you via your email address -- to someone else -- you're loss, bud).
JOKE O'THE DAY:
A man went to the doctor suffering from severe headaches. After a thorough examination, the doctor turned to him and said:
"Jerry, the good news is I can cure your headaches. The bad news is that it will require castration.
"You have a very rare condition, which causes your testicles to press on your spine, and the pressure creates these serious headaches you've been experiencing. So the only way to relieve the pressure is to remove the testicles."
Jerry was shocked and depressed. He wondered if he had anything to live for. He couldn't concentrate long enough to answer, but decided he had no choice but to go under the knife.
When he eventually left the hospital Jerry was pleasantly surprised at how good it felt not to have a headache for the first time in 20 years, but he also knew that he was missing an important part of himself.
As he walked down the street, he realised that he felt like a different person. He could make a fresh start and live a new life. He saw a men's clothing store and thought to himself a new suit would be the perfect thing to mark this new beginning.
He entered the shop and told the salesman: "I'd like a new suit." The elderly tailor eyed him briefly and said: "Let's see... size 44 long?"
"That's right, how did you know?" said Jerry, laughing.
"I've been in the business 60 years!" replied the tailor.
Jerry tried on the suit and it fit like a glove. As Jerry admired himself in the mirror, the salesman asked: "How about a new shirt?" Jerry thought for a moment and then agreed.
The salesman eyed Jerry again. "Let's see... 34 sleeve and 16-and-a-half neck?" Once again, Jerry was surprised.
"That's right, how did you know?"
"Like I said, I've been in the business 60 years!"
So Jerry tried on the shirt, and it was a perfect fit. As he adjusted the collar in the mirror, the salesman asked: "How about new shoes?" Jerry was on a roll and so thought, why not?
So the salesman eyed Jerry's feet and said: "Let's see... you must be a size nine-and-a-half?" Jerry was astonished.
"That's absolutely right! How did you know?"
"Young fellow," said the salesman, "I've been in the business long enough to know these things!" Jerry tried on the shoes and they were also a remarkable fit. He walked comfortably around the shop and the salesman asked: "So that only leaves the new underwear. How about it?" Jerry thought for a second and agreed.
The salesman stepped back, eyed Joe's waist and said: "Let's see... size 36." Jerry laughed.
"Ah ha! I got you! I've worn size 34 since I was 18 years old."
The salesman shook his head. "There's no way. I'm never wrong. You can't wear a size 34."
"Oh yes I can," replied Jerry and have been most of my life.
"I don't understand," said the tailor. "By my reckoning a 34 underwear would press your testicles up against the base of your spine and give you one hell of a headache!"
(insert rimshot)

And add my name to the list: Lay it on me Ellison!
--DTS

Hey, Alejandro, what's your opinion of Mexicano Lindo over at Lincoln, between Fullerton and Diversey?

re: Chicago
Thanks, folks. My cup runneth over... as, likely, will my gut over my belt. My only question now is, how can I ditch work for the extent of my Chicago stay?

Oh, one other thing... a matter of research... lay it on me, Mr. E!

Michael:

I know the place. It used to be by Sheffield and Wrightwood if I am not mistaken. Right across the street from Cubanacan Supermarket. When the missus and I moved to the Windy City more than 15 years ago, our first residence was at an apartment bilding on the corner of Racine and Webster. You can imagine our surprise when, walking 'round the 'hood, we found this classy Cuban joint and the grocery store across the street. Alas, gentrification forced them out; the owners of both closed the venues for good.

The Ambassadors Café on the corner of Addison and Ashland is the closest Cuban restaurant in the DePaul area. Although, if you are honkering for some mean-ass ropa vieja, go to Sabor a Cuba on the 1800 block of West Wilson or Rancho Luna on the 30-hundred-and-something block of West Peterson on the far North side. They also serve some kick-ass Ham Croquettes and the Cuban sandwiches at Rancho Luna are to die for.

Alejandro

Unca Harlan, Lay it on me.

All: Taking the prisoner/coddling thread to the other room for clarification. Join me there, won't you?

DISCLAIMER: This is not meant to be a defense of the guy who posted gruesome descriptions of his crimes on the Internet.

I have a hard time understanding why people think that access to a TV or a computer, or a weight room, would make prison too much "fun" for the inmates. I once had a co-worker tell me he thought it was wrong that prisoners could take GED and college classes in jail because they were supposed to be suffering, so why should they get educated? How absurd and counterproductive, IMO. Don't we WANT them to try to improve themselves? Prison usually teaches inmates to be better criminals; I applaud those who'd rather be students.

Even if the system is going to keep someone in prison for life, some provision must be made for the fact that these are human beings. Loathesome ones in many cases, but if you wall them up in a cell with no form of enlightenment or outlet for expression, they will become even worse than they were when they went it. If you completely alienate someone from society, how do you expect them to stop behaving in an anti-social manner? Again, absurd.

Is the point of prison to solely to punish and crush into dust any humanity a person has? Is it just a warehouse storage facility for society's bad guys? To some extent yes, but don't we want felons to come out of prison with a better chance of having a normal life? Don't we want to avoid situations like Attica?

Even with the basic amenities, prison is not an enjoyable experience. What it is is big business, and a racist one at that. I wish there was some way to reform prisons so that they help people change their lives for the better, but the way we're doing it, the recividism statistics speak for themselves. More draconian measures are clearly not the answer.

PAB

PS--Harlan, I'm dying to know what this Valentine's Day gift is, even if I don't have anyone to give it to...

Prisoners
Jay: I have walked the halls of Sing Sing, stood at the base of its cellblock, and breathed in its air. I have spoken to some of the multiple murderers incarcerated there. I have broken bread with them and I have talked to them like human beings.

True, Richard Pryor was correct to note, "Thank God we have prisons!" Even the sweet, soft-spoken, well educated Dr. Freedgood (who poisoned his wife), the most likeable killer you'll ever meet, deserved to be there. So did the guy who chopped up a jeweler with an axe. I don't deny that they deserve their place.

The conditions are hardly luxurious. They're functional. One can imagine the same space being used to house soldiers, who would at least be able to get out once in a while.

BUT -- even if they get TVs in their cells, as they do at some SuperMax prisons where the convicts are locked in as long as 23 hours a day, and TVs and access to reading material are minimal consolations -- it's clueless to call what they get "coddling".

Standing in that building, as I did on four separate occasions, you FEEL the oppressive misery of being locked in.

It's a bad place.

Just being there is painful.

(Harlan once wrote a long essay about his weekend in a jail cell. He can testify that I know what I'm talking about. I felt it even when I was free to go.)

Coddling? Bull-hockey.

Slippery Slopes
Alex,

Yeah, we're not too different in our opinion, really. I see another slippery slope toward coddling of prisoners, with people examining the horrible conditions of prison, deciding that prisoners are just like anyone else and in the Christian spirit of empty-headed kindness giving them stupid shit like cable TV, liberal phone use, internet-ready computers and gourmet meals.

Hopefully some comment
Harlan:

I've posted but once on this sight (in reaction to the thread you threw out a few years ago concerning what we would or would not do for the rest of our time here on this earth, with only six?eight? possible slots in which to pose our answers. For my answer, you gave me a "Huzzah" by the way -- Thank you.)
My request, question, is nothing more than a hope to continue or provoke discussion with those who have been placed in my, uh - temporary care.
I'm currently teaching an honors undergraduate workshop at the Univerity of Arizona and, having been one of my literary inspirations (if I only had the time to tell you about "Some Notes on the Craft" and the class I took with one of th writers you quoted in that one, Geoffrey Wolff) I was glad, happy, borderline orgasmic, to find that I have the opportunity to discuss one of your stories, "Fever" (it's in the Joyce Carol Oates Anthology Telling Stories a la the Norton Co. via the Ontario Review, or vice versa, which we were gien to teach this semester).
I was wondering if you wouldn't mind telling me what led you to write "Fever", particularly why the moment that struck you, the one you chose to write about, was after Icarus's fall. I myself have an idea, only because I, as I assume everyone else is, fascinated by our tragic heros, perhaps more so after they have hit the Earth.
I just thought it would be interesting if you could tell me, one of your, well, perennial fans, and my students, why a writer chose to write what he did, why he did, when he did, as he did.

Hopefully, thankfully, respectfully, sincerely yours,

John H. Mull

*I’ll never hear the bells if ya don't lay it on me!

You MAY actually help me salvage a relationship here: the snow has been falling in thick sheets...as I fucked up several days ago and forgot the date of her birthday (thinking it was two days after the right one)! Ya ever wanna find out what it's like droppin' an anvil on yer foot, this is a most effective way!

**...Now to get heavy on the politics: about two weeks ago I actually warmed up to John Kerry (having previously dismissed him without a thought) when I saw that home video in which our good front-runner pretends to puff a joint. This once sullen droopy dog-faced guy suddenly metamorphosed into a spirited Dionysus. For that kind of chutzpa alone I'd elect him. Yep...that's how low my standards have gone.

Hey, if he loses the general election there is always a place for him in the Congo, according to something I read the other day. The ancient Riamba cult is practiced there. It says that in the Riamba beliefs, marijuana is a god, protector from physical and spiritual harm. In fact, throughout Africa treaties and business transactions are sealed in a puff of smoke from a yard-long pipe. So, either way, John, you may prove the love of the land!

***The passing of JACK PARR: The other day I had the opportunity, literally for the first time, to see outtakes of this soft-spoken comic. I had no idea he was so spry! A REALLY funny guy. I can see why he'll be missed. (To Johnny Carson: "I'm sorry I gave you the show...I should have RENTED it to you!")

****And LAST night I saw what you might call Parr's diametric opposite on A&E's Biography: "The Great Profile", John Barrymore. I didn't realize QUITE how bombed the guy really was most of the time. Even during interviews his eyes were rolling in the back of his head, although he was quick-witted. Pathetic loss of brilliant talent man (it was creepy watching it, really, because my mother reacted to alcohol in similar ways). In the 50's, Errol Flynn played him in a not-too-well received movie. Interestingly, I've a friend who saw Drew Barrymore (she's his granddaughter)in a pharmacy not so long ago, and he informed me she looked pallid and stoned to hell; "really awful", he said. An interesting genetic line they have goin' on there. I'm glad Lionel managed past all that; talk about talent in absolutes.

cold muhfuggah
"lay it on me, Ellison"

Lay it on me, Harlan. This might be the grail!

Steve Dooner

Comics and Food
As the resident schmo-who-works-in-a-comic-book-store, let me chime in with my current favorite collections: TRANSMETROPOLITAN, whose hero, journalist Spider Jerusalem, exhibits certain cranky behavior reminiscent of our Patron Author; and ASTRO CITY, which is just amazingly good writing about people who live around superheroes, not the heroes themselves.

Oh, and POWERS.

...and JSA.

and ULTIMATE SPIDER-MAN.

and...

Hey, Sr. Riera... there used to be a Cuban restaurant over in the North End near DePaul, my memory is fuzzy 'cause of the liquor, but they had the damndest ropa vieja con platanos fritos I ever tasted... is it still there?

Sadly, New Mexico isn't big on barbeque... gonna have to head for some of these places y'all are talking about soon.

best to all,
Michael

P.S. Cole slaw? Feh!

P.P.S. Justin! Thank you! Check yer damn email!

My wife Olga never reads this board (although she occassionally peeks over my shoulder) so, on her behalf, and out of a sense of curiosity, I scream to the heavens above, oh, Lord, LAY IT ON ME, REVEREND ELLISON!!!!!

Okay, so now that I finally lost my grip on reality…

Music Recommendation
Harlan,

1.) Yes, please -- lay it on me!

2.) Are you familiar with the singer (and band) in the SF Bay Area named Lavay Smith & Her Red Hot Skillet Lickers? She's a bebop/swing/torch/blues singer who's got a dynamite voice, and if you're not familiar with her music, I highly recommend it. She's got two CDs out -- "One Hour Mama" and "Everybody's Talkin' 'Bout Miss Thing," and they're loads of fun.

Oh yeah, one more thing...

Lavay herself is a modern incarnation of Bettie Page, and yep, she plays up the resemblance to a "T."

-- Jon

Lay it on me too, Harlan. But be notified that this is mainly out of curiosity. Right now, my love life ain't exactackly moving along.

Lemme lay this out for everyone. Among the two or three women with whom I have had will have dates this month, there is one with whom I was very briefly involved. She got severely cold feet when she figured that I was getting far too into the relationship for her comfort, but she wanted to remain friends. We have dinner together, talk, bond, and she's even said that I probably understand her better than anyone she's ever encountered. So, as you all can imagine, the times we spend together _feel_ like dates.

Of course, this puts me in a position that could be seen as Crummy. I'd love to have a romantic relationship with her. But when I have made a (gentlemanly) attempt to be a tad more affectionate, she's (courteously) turned me down. But as I said, there's a severe connection there, and it puts me in a Catch-22. If I express an interest, she shies away. It's possible that I'll find someone else who'll engage me the same way she has-- but as long as I hang with her, I'm still kind of keeping her "in mind" most of the time.

About the only rational thing I _can_ do is be a friend, but I may have to keep some distance while I work doubletime on killing off the romantic interest I have in her so I can _remain_ a friend. And I _hate_ that: doing that is just another "Forget about love" lesson. It takes away hope, and it makes being a Decent Guy feel like being a complete and utter chump.

(The idea of breaking off the friendship isn't in the cards. It'd just be a childish and petulant thing to do. "I won't be friends because you won't fall in love with me?" Nahh. I'm a grown-up. I don't do shit like that.)

So I'm curious about this splendiforous Valentine's Day gift. Not only for future reference (because, when I'm in a relationship, I can be a real pussycat), but as a reminder that there is hope. Maybe. Possibly.

Cindy: Do you know why they give prisoners weights to bench-press? It’s to keep them from bench-pressing the guards, that’s why.

I grew up near a prison, specifically the Elmira Correctional Facility in upstate New York. And I went to school with the children of the guards and other employees, and I was always aware of their parent’s tensions about the balance of power within the walls. Most prisons (with the possible exception of federal supermax facilities) exist in a tenuous state of equilibrium between the guards and the inmate population. The rights granted inmates, which sound luxurious compared to our estimations of what they deserve, are forms of control. Rights are granted to insure peace, revoked to punish, and serve to keep hostilities in check and the equilibrium in balance. Treat inmates like animals, with poor food, little distraction and little to no contact with the outside, and you will soon see how quickly (and violently) the peace is sundered. Remember Attica?

No matter how people try to spin the inmate rights issue, the fact remains that prisons are uniformly shitty and dangerous places, and having a TV outside your cell and one hour of daylight a day hardly ameliorates the fact you are not free to walk out and are going nowhere very slowly, with a shiv to the gut a real possibility if the guy in the next bunk decides your pants aren’t coming down fast enough.

Mark,
who, within 48 hours of his first posts to this forum, was accused of being both a parvenu and a pedagogue. Really folks, this is MOST gratifying. I’ve never felt so insulted . . . and yet . . .so accepted. . .

Lay It On Me
Deb, listen up and get out the wallet, wench!

-TODD

No asstalk from Harlan! I am agog and aglitter with joy.

CINDY, JAY: To me, the issue is NOT "Should prisoners have TVs, stereos, Internet, what have you?" The issue is that someone said publically, on national television, that NO civil liberties should be granted certain people; that they are "harvestable sacks of organs" unworthy of humane treatment. THAT'S what set me to anger.

'Cause it's prisoners first. Then those suspected of a crime. Then those whose sexual practices you find repugnant. Then those whose beliefs you don't like ... Once you demarcate someone as off the rolls for deserving of humane treatment--no matter HOW low that person is--you open the door to a savage slippery slope.

I'm intrigued - lay it on me, Harlan!

ps - Is it something warm? Temps here ranging from -22 degrees to -4 the entire last week. *shudder*

--Zoë Rose

No can do, Harlan. Getting divorced.

YES,
Do tell!
I'm perfectly agog.
:)
Cindy


Hey Neal.
:)
Cindy



On the rights of monsters; they should be largely null and void. Strip an innocent human being of his or her right to life and you forfeit your rights except those pertaining to BASIC, humane treatment and phone -n- plexiglass visits with legal counsel. No telephone calls, no televisions, no internet or other contact with the outside world, no fucking conjugal visits. Sensored letters to relatives should be the only outside communication.

I'm astounded at the stupidity of those who allow murderers a full range of communication services, then react with shock when they get outside assistance for escape attempts.

If life in prison meant life in prison I'd back it...but only under the circumstances I have outlined here. Lifers would be confined permanently to their cells, cemented in with an iron door and a slot for their meals. They could have books.

The money currently being spent on internet service, computers for killers, and weight machines (which build bigger, better criminals)should go for mandatory DNA testing of ALL convicted violent offenders.

DAMN, I should be Queen. Don't you think?
:)
Cindy

Lay it on me, Ellison!


Mark

ALEX JAY:

Your mini-analysis of the story is just fine. That is, indeed, one proper and insightful way to read the subtext. But only one.

No asstalk from you on this one.

-----------------------------------------------------------------TO ALL:

I have no idea if you'd be interested, but if some, a few, one or two, all, of you would like me to turn you on to a diamond- clad, not expensive, absolutely fabulous gift -- maybe for this Valentine's Day -- that a woman could give to her male honey -- husband, lover, brother, father, son, grandkid -- post a one-line "lay it on me, Ellison" and I'll joyously rock your gift-giving sensibility. No beaded car-seat cufflink keychain ugly-tie ArmorAll beefsteak electric nose-hair clipper Laz-EE Boy big coffee table picture book 6-pak o' Nipponese beer matched set of Bond CDs argyle 20-pak of socks bullshit. THIS gift is so keen, so cool, so awwwww dammmm geeezus that the recipient will look at you with wide eyes and marvels in his manner.

Yr. pal, Harlan

Human Rights vs. Scumbag Rights
Alex,

Among the rights of convicted felons I would place freedom to live unless the law dictates capital punishment. A reasonably comfortable place to live out your sentence with regular meals, freedom from physical abuses while in the care of the state, medical care, access to rehabilitative, religious and educational material.

I consider prison life to remove someone from society altogether. I don't think giving them email, access to the 'net, or giving them the right to call someone not in their immediate family or on their list of legal counsel is appropriate. To remove them from society is to do just that. No cell phones, no DSL.

Don't forget, Naomi Wolf was also an advisor to Al Gore; when he tried his Alpha Male phase.

She is very pretty, and I have been impressed in how she is schooling Miller and that dumb brick David Horrorwitz.

I do know that Camille Paglia cannot stand her. A good reason to like her.

Miller's show is a snoozer, but of course, I cannot stop watching.

I will email that show to death, trying to get Harlan on. Would livin up thangs.

Miller is pathetic. How could a comedian diss the ACLU? We would be a banana republic without them.

---------------------

Wyatt:

http://www.newyorkmetro.com/nymetro/news/trends/n_9437/

"English grammar is such a contradictory and sloppy affair that it hardly warrants any consideration beyond the most superficial sort. One's time would be better spent watching grass grow."

I'd almost say this about spelling-- English has some of the most arbitrary and contrived spelling rules in existence-- but grammar is necessary for clarity and concision. I think most of the grammatical rules in English make sense if you understand how the language works.

I will say this: it's pretty hard to teach. Parts of speech bleed into each other, verbs have many irregular conjugations, you can't teach proper comma usage without explaining about 50 other things, and by the time I get these kids, they don't have the basic skills upon which I can build. That said, I think it's a worthwhile endeavor; if you don't use proper grammar, your ability to communicate, esp. in writing, will be impaired.

As I think Dorie said, the person who said the above quote probably relies heavily on an editor. Thank god for the people who know the rules, eh?

PAB

English grammar
Which popular author was that? I hope s/he has a good editor! Seems to me the people who say that grammar isn't important are the ones who can't get the hang of it!

Yes, you can make yourself understood without using proper English ("nook-yoo-lar"), but the way you speak or write makes people presume things about your intelligence or lack of same. Especially in a job interview.

On the subject of having good editors, or not-- has anyone here read popular novels by Faye Kellerman or Jonathan Kellerman? (OK it's fluff, but one of my guilty pleasures). I was absolutely stunned to note all the glaring errors in grammar and fact from these two writers.

I would kinda agree. Sort of. Maybe. Actually, I do agree.

BUT...

You have to be able to communicate with your audience. An audience may overlook a couple of miscues here and there, but you still have to be able to know what you're doing. No one likes to work with incompetence and no one certainly likes to read incompetence.

comma comma down
I wonder if anyone here would like to comment on this quote from the blog of a popular author:

"English grammar is such a contradictory and sloppy affair that it hardly warrants any consideration beyond the most superficial sort. One's time would be better spent watching grass grow."

Humbly submitted,

Neal

P.S. Hi Cindy

More Chicago Eats

Located under Michigan Avenue and across the street from the Tribune Tower is the famous Billy Goat Tavern where Mike Royko used to hang-out and where you can still run into a lot of newspaper people from both the Tribune and Sun-Times. The "Goat" has one of the best cheeseburgers in town along with a lot of local color. On the near southside at Roosevelt and Jefferson is another Chicago institution, Manny's Deli. They got the BEST corned beef and pastrami sandwiches in town and you'll see a wide assortment of people dining there. Everyone from cops and fireman to LaSalle Street lawyers and bankers to university students and professors can be seen there at lunchtime. And I can't fail to mention the Parthenon restaurant on Halsted in the heart of Greektown. The best authentic greek cuisine around at reasonable prices. Hey, isn’t it about lunchtime?

Chicago, Chicago
Tossing in a couple more restaurant suggestions: Strega Nona for Italian, on Southport north of Addison. Then there's Mexicano Lindo on Lincoln, north of Fullerton. Also, there's a hot dog place on Clark, between Diversey and Fullerton, west side of the street - cvan't remember the name, but it's a hell of a good dog.

Chicago, Chicago, my kinda town
On behalf of the Webderland duchy of Chicago let me be the first to throw some suggestions in the ring:

• Jazz clubs: You can't go wrong with Joe Segal's Jazz Showcase on the corner of Grand and Clark. Some of the greatest jazz musicians perform there every week. Green Mill Lounge on the corner of Lawrence and Broadway is also highly recommended although arrive early. It's small, it gets packed to the max and it might get quite smoky and uncomfortable. But, it's got character.

• The Hothouse: Chicago's premier world music venue on Balbo and Wabash.

• If you are arriving in the next week or so take some time to enjoy the Flameco Fest 2004 which ends February 16 with what could very well be one of Paco de Lucía's last performances in the United States over at Symphony Center. Ojos de brujo, a group from Barcelona that combines flamenco with hip-hop and salsa stylings, will be performing February 14 at Martyrs in North Lincoln. And José Mercé, the great flamenco singer, makes his Chicago debut February 5 at the Park West.

• Food, food, food: Thou shalt not be left wanting in Chicago. Good restaurants are a dime a dozen. You must go to Chicago perennials Berghoff's and the Italian Village in downtown. If you are a hardcore meat eater you must try Tango Sur on Southport (an excellent Argentinian restaurant) and La Fonda on Broadway (excellent Colombian cuisine). In the mood for Spanish tapas? Try 1492 Tapas or Emilio's on Ohio. Avoid Ibérico in the evenings; it gets obnoxiously packed, the wait is way too long and the food at night is not as fresh. Go during lunch hour. It's a much calmer place and the food is prepared with much more care and love.

Check metromix.chicagotribune.com for more info. They do a pretty good job of updating their website with restaurant and club listings as well as events. And do pick The Reader when you finally move here. It's as complete and handy a guide as Metromix's.

What would YOU do with time on your hands in Chicago?


Just dropping in to ask for a recommendation or two, from those in the know... used book stores, independent booksellers, museums, used/rare record or CD shops? My job is shooting me off to Chicago next week for a few days, DePaul U area, and I expect to have a little time on my hands to burn. For that matter, is there barbeque in Chicago? Or another eatery I just shouldn't miss?

Danke schön, darling, danke schön...

JAY: I'm not defending the right of "scumbags" to have internet access, or to taunt survivors of their victims. But regardless of what they have done and what they have been convicted of, even prisoners still have certain civil liberties and rights. The right to a speedy and fair trial, the right to adequate representation, the right to appeal, and the freedom from cruel and unusual punishment. They also do have the right to communicate with the outside--NOT in the way the murdering bastard in question did, but with friends, reporters, relatives.
Certain things which said prisoners do may further restrict these rights, but never remove them.

Even Death Row prisoners are accorded civil liberties and rights, even when it has been judged that the one ultimate liberty will be taken from them.
(And note: I am pro-death penalty in concept; I just think that it is shittily administered as we now have it.)

The thing which irked me was NOT that Miller would consider restricting the rights of this moron to post sick shit to the net, but rather that he made the blanket statement that some people just don't deserve civil liberties at ALL. And that's ... shit; that's unAmerican.
To ensure that we all have freedom, you cannot draw a line--we must ALL have freedom. (Violations of the social contract will, of course, restrict said freedom, as noted, but SOME freedoms must always remain.)

(Also in response to you, I have heard nothing but good stuff about Mayer's "Superfolks" and intend soon to pick up a copy.)

DORIE: As moted above, I agree that that particular liberty is not necessarily one whichj should be allowed prisoners such as the convict in question.

CINDY: I've always read "Daniel White ..." as a dark testament to societal failure. In fact, a good many of Harlan's stories could be seen as raging reportahe on the failures we all have and our world has, or cautionary tales of the failures which may lie later down the road.

"DWftGG" is DEFINITELY a case of failure, and civil liberties and civil rights really aren't the issue--though the Civil Rights movement and the things which it sought and seeks to redress ARE. The monster Daniel White must be given up to the mob because the climate of the characters' world is such that if he ISN'T sacrificed, made an evil and dark reflection of Billy Budd, then all the others who share his skin color will suffer.

(Of course, I may well be talking out of my ass on this, and will acknowledge same if Harlan so says.)

JON A. BELL: I have spoken at LONG length of my love for comics here and on several other fora--occasionally, I've been paid for it. If you like, we can take this to e-mail--if you tell me what your tastes are in film, reading, what have you, I'll be happy to recommend a scheissload of brightly-colored bits of paper.

Now you guys have got me craving Barbecue. I'll have to look up a good place around here. I remember a name that ended with ...Burgers N' Bones. I'll have to give them a try.

Oh, and thanks to Jon for the Spybot advice. I'm armed and dangerous now - watch out all you cyberleeches. I just wanted to make sure as many people here knew about one very pernicious pest that was attaching itself to people's home pages. The advice was very useful, though.

The Cybernator

Comics recommendations
Jon:
I've finally gotten back into comics after a eight year hiatus, and I can pipe up with some of the stuff I've found interesting. As for the monthly comic books, I've been into Y: The Last Man, which is about a guy who's left as the last man on Earth after every creature on the planet with a Y chromosome is wiped out. I'd recommend starting with the first collection, "Unmanned," with the caveat that the newer issues haven't been living up to the quality of the first book.
Dave Sim's Cerebus is another good monthly comic, though it's just reached issue 298 of a planned 300 issue run, so I wouldn't start my reading with the latest issue on the stands - try to find a copy of the early collection CEREBUS: HIGH SOCIETY and see how it grabs you.
Honestly, I've been considering dropping monthly titles entirely and just reading collections since most recent comics seem to be geared towards epic stories rather than self-contained tales. And if you're up for buying collected comics, there are a whole slew of good reads out there. You can find a zillion "Best Graphic Novels" lists on the Internet, but I'll drop a couple of personal recommendations. If you like action-y comic books, try Watchmen, Batman: The Dark Knight Returns, or the Preacher series. All are fairly interesting takes on superheros, though Preacher is pure junk food for the eyes and brain - I don't know why, but I loved it. If you like the quiet, soap-opera stuff, go for Jason Lutes's Jar of Fools or Chris Wares's Jimmy Corrigan: The Smartest Kid on Earth. In my opinion, the latter two books are some of the best novels written in the last few years and beat most of the text-only books I've read lately in terms of quality reading.

Bay Area Barbeque and Comics
Guys,

Well, I thought I'd worry this bone a little more, to make a bad joke.

Harlan, I don't know if your heart doctor and/or Susan frown upon you at least sampling this stuff anymore, but the next time you're up north in the SF Bay Area, you might check out Flint's in Oakland and Berkeley (if you haven't already.) A family-owned business since the early 70s, Flint's is a legend in the area -- their sauce is a rich red-black, with spicy heat to it, and their ribs and hot links will make you sweat. The establishments are tiny, so most people order in and take it away.

In Sonoma, my beloved hometown until Joan and I moved last May, Rob's Rib Shack is a funky little roadhouse that has nice barbeque -- and Harlan, since you mentioned cole slaw in your earlier message, I recommend Rob's because theirs has a sharp bite of horseradish in it, which I like.

Now, switching gears: any comic book fans around here in the Pavilion? (Besides Harlan, of course.) I've never been an avid collector, but after a prolonged absence, I've been getting back into reading certain comics the last few years, and I've gotten utterly hooked on Joe Straczynski's "Amazing Spider-Man," Waid's "Fantastic Four" (especially the topical "Authoritative Action" story), Jeph Loeb/Tim Sale's "Hush" Batman series, and especially Brian Bendis/Alex Maleev's dark film-noir take on "Daredevil," which just kicks ass, IMHO. I'd love to hear some additional comic recommendations from other folks here. Thanks!

-- Jon

***Thanks Harlan! I was afraid that when you got the note Rick sent, it would be the end of what I consider a friendship. I will talk to Todd and we will work it out. Thanks for the understanding!!

Naomi Wolf
If that was indeed Naomi Wolf, she's a goddess. Her book "The Beauty Myth" was about how standards of beauty are ultimately harmful to women; and back when it first saw print I was very, very impressed by her reaction to ANY interviewer who dared protest that she was attractive herself, why would she say such things?

Righteous anger. I love it.

>Do you think she's single?<

I didn't see the show, but it might have been Naomi Wolf. She wrote "The Beauty Myth," which I read while working at a Catholic girls high school. Yes, they wore the plaid skirts and knee socks, for those who always ask.

http://www.edge.org/3rd_culture/bios/wolf.html

Naomi's lovely. Go for it, who cares if she's married.

LASER EYE SURGERY: DEB & TODD

Rick forwarded your message. Deb, fear not: when you speak of idiosyncratic behavior, I and my million quirks are the chorus; you are merely the preacher. What you describe isn't weird, it's utterly understandable in a world awash in the clamor of voices. As for my not going into detail about my own lasik, here in Webderland, well, nothing ominous about it; just ain't got the time or energy to explicate every detail for the gang. But on February 4th, at last, I'll be going in for the procedure on my right eye. Hear this, baby: NOTHING TO FEAR.

If Todd wants to call me, and have you listening in on the extension, I have no problem with that. It isn't rude, and I don't want you, for an instant, to let that deter you two from getting in touch with me, because I HAVE IMPORTANT STUFF TO RELATE, so figure out a modus operandi, and I'll get onboard to effect a liaison.

Yr. pal, Harlan

Miller and BBQ
I caught about 10 minutes of the Dennis Miller show last night flipping aroun. I dunno about Miller (I think about 80% of the opinions he avows are purely because they dovetail into a clever comment he's come up with), but who was that dark-haired woman they had on there? In the few minutes I watched she was articulate, compassionate, and freaking OWNED the conservative dude. Do you think she's single?

I can attest to Fat Matt's supremacy in Atlanta, a town with surprisingly poor BBQ for the most part. Both the ribs and the pulled pork are to die for. They play some damn good blues there as well. Corky's is damn good in both Memphis and Little Rock, but the one in Fayetteville, AR stinks on ice. Also, Corky's is a chain at this point and it's lost a little in the transition.

as in OBSCURE
HARLAN

The Futrelle book is outta sight, dy-no-MITE, and recondite. Oh yeah! Your editorial work is superb as always. Retitling all the stories was a very nice touch. This job must have been a mutha.

ALEX JAY

Your post brings to mind a story by HE from 1961, "Daniel White for the Greater Good".

It's very interesting you should bring up civil liberties the day after I read that story (for the first time).

CINDY

Speaking of TX barbecue, have you heard of the Salt Lick in Austin? I liked it. I just now learned how to spell barbecue. Amazing.

Regards,

Rick

P.S. Miller needs to make up his mind.

P.P.S. Baby, it's cold outside. What we in the Great White North like to refer to as, "Ass Below Zero".

It's really no surprise

Dennis Miller was among a wave of cyncial/sarcastic comedians who followed after David Letterman in the eighties. Letterman, as the originator of the style, always maintained some of his midwestern reserve and was slightly more decent than the rest. But Miller was known for taking the nastiest, ceapest shots he could.

Miller's literary name-dropping and poor attempts at being hip always masked a fundamental insecurity and a need to be liked. Finally, he found that he was liked by the mean-spirited, low-minded tugs who run America today, and he became exactly who he is.

As for Christopher Htchens and others who have lost their minds. Some of them, at least, had a modicum of integrity before their conversion to the politics of blunt force. However, Hitchens was always ethically-challenged, and after he became the self-apponted champion of the Kurds, he started accusing everyone who ooposed this stupid war of being a Stalinist. Well, poor Hitchens could not see the ends did not justify the means: dismantling the Constitution, killing five hundred American soldiers, killing fifty thousand of Iraqis, undermining the authority of the UN, and utterly destroying with the reputation of America around the world.

Alex J B: I'm all for civil liberties, and I can't fathom what the hell happened to Dennis Miller since he's gone over to the dark side...but dont you think there ought to be some way of keeping the murderer from posting his descriptions for other sickos to enjoy? If we take away certain liberties when a criminal is imprisoned, I think it would be fair and reasonable to take away THAT particular liberty. I think it's one of those letter of the law vs spirit of the law things. Yes we want to protect free speech, but this instance is a particularly egregious use of that freedom. It causes at LEAST some harm to the victim's family and who knows but such descriptions may give the other sociopaths an instruction book.

Miller and what's really wrong
I think Miller's bigger crime has been overlooked. He has committed the ultimate news channel/talk show sin.

He is boring.

I'll continue to give him a chance, but right now the Conan reruns on Comedy Central look better than this.

Mike

When I lived in Memphis a few years ago, it was Corky's or nuthin'. And lunch hour was brutal as the parking lot could only hold about four cars and the waits were incredible. Still...fuckin' worth it. Not sure if it's still the same, but back in the day...

And speaking of civil liberties, I hear you Californians are going to be banning cigarettes in the prisons as a way to keep their health care costs down. Good for you guys. See, you can do something right once in awhile.

Miller and Civil Liberties
As much as I am perplexed by Miller's recent pod-like behavior I have to ask: At what point to your actions against society permit society from removing your civil liberties? Or, put another way. When is it appropriate to remove a convict's right to Internet Posting Freedom or the ability to broadcast his crimes to a broad audience? There are schools and private individuals out there who don't have Internet. Why does this guy get what is, compared to the average American "special treatment" and let on the 'net?

If I go out and turn my neighbor's cat into soup, should I be allowed to talk about it online while serving time for it? If I turn my neighbors into soup, I think it's time to take the mouse away and smash the network card.

Like Miller, I believe there are bastards out there who forfeit their right to ANY civil liberties while locked away from society. Because locking them away is meant to keep them from getting at us relatively civil and decent (or at least unconvicted) people. I don't see it as any different than allowing him from calling a victim's family, printing a newsletter about the crime or going on with Geraldo Rivera every year to talk about how Sharon Tate deserved to die.

In other news: "Superfolks" by Robert Mayer. Anyone read it? Opinions? Just finshed it here but would like to know how you folks read it, especially if you read it back in the '70s when it was first printed.

Mark: "if God didn't want us to eat animals, then He shouldn't have made them out of meat."

Mark, you may have backed yourself into a corner here...

We hominids, mammals being made of the same meat, n'all, tasty as hell from my understanding, lays ground for some intriguing prospects in haute cuisine, if your adage really holds. And you have the honor of being first on my menu. I only go with the best. No more cows for me!

Pedagogue Fricassee anyone?

Some bad language here, but I'm in a state of shock and anger ...

Jeezus monkeyfuck.
If I were Larry Niven right now, I wouldn't know whether to laugh or weep.

Dennis Miller's CNBC show premiered tonight. Part of the show is given over to a commentary, which came after a twenty-minute interview with Senator John McCain. Tonight's commentary dealt with a convicted criminal who committed a murder, then posted a lurid description of his crime on the internet. An evil fuck, no doubt, and I'm glad the man's behind bars.
But Miller closed his rant with, "civil liberties are for human beings, not sacks of harvestable organs like this guy ..."

Now, whatever I used to think and whatever I now think about Miller is immaterial. This is fucking CHILLING--and to have it said by a responsible white guy in a suit behind a desk on national TV ...

--with Miller getting away with saying things like this, Niven's view of a future which contains "organlegging," which he wrote stories about in his "Gil Hamilton, the Long ARM of the Law" series and most chillingly, in the story "The Jigsaw Man," comes ever closer to reality.

Of course, it's not the organ-harvesting bit that's the scary part--it's the idea of "civil liberties are only for ..." conceit. Great.
At least in the country *I* grew up in, civil liberties are supposed to be for ALL. And yes; if you're convicted of a crime, some of those liberties will be taken away as you serve your sentence, but there are still several inalienable liberties left to you; those cannot be taken away without recourse.

But hey, guy's evil; take 'em all away.

And then watch as the definition of who is "evil" starts on a sliding scale ...

_____

As a recovering vegetarian (don't ask),
_____

Welcome back from the brink. Y'know, if God didn't want us to eat animals, then He shouldn't have made them out of meat.

Dammed sorry to hear Dreamland is going downhill. Is Big John still running the place? And is the 'no farting' sign still over the door?

NYC has an a new Q joint, and it's great: Daisy Mae's, 11th Ave in the 40s, take out only, with extra napkins if you please. Highly recommended (and Blue Smoke in the Village)!

Mark,
about to read the last chapter of Mary Doria Russell's "The Sparrow", a fine book indeed.

Well,

I'n MY town, you can't buy a bottle of wine or B&B. You can't buy shoes but you CAN get handmade cowboy boots, saddles and tack. You can't get chinese food or Dim Sum (still agonizing over that) but you CAN get world class barbecue of two types. First we have Cooper's Barbecue, featured a few months ago by Texas Monthly. Coopers has not only superlative slaw but cabrito that is to DIE for. We also have authentic barbecoa made by the local Tejanos. If you can get past the notion that it's actually meat from the head of a bull or cow, wrapped in wet tow sacks and buried underground, then you'll enjoy probably the most spectacular beef you've ever put in your mouth.

We can also get homemade tamales but that's another culinary adventure all together.

:)
Cindy


Hey Deb?
Thank you for what you said. I feel the same about you and Todd.
:)
Cindy


I hope Julie is mending by leaps and bounds.

Cindy

Guy -

Dreamland is in Tuscaloosa. If you make it near Birmingham, try Full Moon BBQ - it's even better than Dreamland, which has started to go downhill in recent years.

Barbecue
Sorry, everyone -- Dreamland Barbecue, in the original venue, high on the hill overlooking Tuscaloosa, Alabama (none of the franchises) --
Or is it that place in Memphis? I'll go there during DeepSouthCon in March and check it out again. Rosy restructs her meat diet to fowl and fish, so I hope they have that to offer.
Now, importantly, ABBA, and Murray-Theron in 2004!
How's Schwartz?

My theory is that if you don't eat meat in this life, you must in the next. That is why there are zombies.

As a recovering vegetarian (don't ask), I will shortly be paying the good Doctor Wogly over on Sepulveda a visit. My new motto: The only sacred cow I will acknowledge is the dead one on my plate.

Harlan, you actually eat cole slaw? Yicch.

As for movies'n'trivia and stuff,I came across an odd example of editing-for-content. AMC's running _The Hot Rock_ as I type-- a nifty caper movie from a Donald Westlake novel, scripted by William Goldman and directed by Peter Yates. (It's where I first heard of Westlake, BTW.)There's this sequence when the crooks fly a helicopter through Manhattan on their way to breaking into a police station. The chopper flies dangerously close to the surrounding buildings, and the passengers are getting more and more terrified as they go. They even pass the World Trade Center, then under construction.

The strange thing is this. That entire sequence was cut from the film. So I wrote to AMC, asking why they'd made this extensive cut. The sequence wasn't terribly long, the film wasn't really long with it in, and there wasn't anything revolting or upsetting about it. But I _suspect_ they cut it because of the WTC footage, which is a really odd decision to make.

Happily, the film's on DVD. Seek it out, folks: the cast includes Robert Redford, George Segal, Ron Liebman and the magnificent Zero Mostel.

Just popping in to thank Susan for the superlative, possibly OCD-inspired packing job she did on my book order, which arrived safe and sound last week. Terrific work, but I have just one question: You DO realize you accidentally duct-taped Harlan in with the rest of my stuff, right? (I have no mouth, my ass--the guy never stops going on about food . . .)

As Triumph the Insult Comic Dog says, I keed, I keed. Seriously, Harlan, thanks for signing every damned one of my books, including the Kersh collection, which I devoured in a single night. I can see why you dig him so much; for lack of a better term, the man has a definite PHILOSOPHICAL quality to his writing that gives him a leg up on many of his contemporaries. Even if the plots are occasionally slight, the depth and insight of his descriptions are always a joy to read. (I'm thinking of "'Busto Is a Ghost, Too Mean to Give Us a Fright!'" in particular.)

And now, for everyone's delectation, here is a link to the 2004 Village Voice's World's Hardest Movie Quiz: http://www.villagevoice.com/issues/0404/atkinson.php

(If you get more than a few questions right the first time around, you officially have less of a life than I. Lucky, lucky you.)

THE GRAND Q

I'm afraid I must concur. I've eaten at Arthur Bryant's BBQ more than a few times, and it's an okay franchise. Okay. But no better than that. When I lay kudos on the Dorman altar, I was only referencing the sensational BBQ to which Dorman took me and Susan when we were in Kansas city. I wasn't talking about the VERY BEST BBQ IN THE UNIVERSE (Though the crackle at m'man Dorman's Q-o-Choice is about the best I've ever eaten.)

I've done this Barbeque Baedekker elsewhere, several times, so I ain't gonna chapter/verse it. Suffice to note the following, ALL and EACH of which is light-years beyond Arthur Bryant's:

Hot Sauce Williams in Cleveland. "Red" Bryans' Pit BBQ in College Station, Texas. Daddy Simm Rib'n'Poke just north of Monterey, CA. Jake's Li'l Eat It & Beat It in Kansas City. Dr. Hogly Wogly's Tyler Texas Pit Barbeque on Sepulveda in the San Fernando Valley right near me. Fat Matt's Rib Shack out on Piedmont in Atlanta.

There are lots of others, Carolina style, New England style, a million "Texas style" joints, but you'll know a good one if they serve end-cut chopped (AKA "crackle") and if the cole slaw is tasty. But kindly, any of you parvenus, do not -- out of sweetly charming ignorance and lack of EXTENSIVE experience -- offer the names of bottled franchise operations such as Arthur Bryant's (which is NOT bad, just not imperial) as if you actually grok the grand Q.

Yr. pal, Harlan

(I'm the one with grease on his face.)

Ray Carlson,

Ray, you're killing me. The Microsoft/GM joke is an urban legend that's been around since 1999. Check out Snopes for the scoop:

http://www.snopes.com/humor/jokes/autos.htm

Ah, Snopes. The 1st place to look when you see something goofy like this.

Regards,
Joseph

>Nope. If you're talking BEST, it can only be Arthur Bryant's.

A franchise. Strictly for tourists. Trillin's wised up.

LOVE/HATE COMPUTERS?

For all of us who feel only the deepest love and affection for the
way computers have enhanced our lives, read on. At a recent computer
expo (COMDEX), Bill Gates reportedly compared the computer industry
with the auto industry and stated, "If GM had kept up with technology
like the computer industry has, we would all be driving $25.00 cars
that got 1,000 miles to the gallon."

In response to Bill's comments, General Motors issued a press release
stating: If GM had developed technology like! Microsoft, we would all
be driving cars with the following characteristics (and I just love
this part):

1. For no reason whatsoever, your car would crash twice a day.

2. Every time they repainted the lines in the road, you would have to
buy a new car.

3. Occasionally your car would die on the freeway for no reason. You
would have to pull to the side of the road, close all of the windows,
shut off the car, restart it, and reopen the windows before you could
continue. For some reason you would simply accept this.

4. Occasionally, executing a maneuver such as a left turn would cause
your car to shut down and refuse to restart, in which case you would
have to reinstall the engine.

5. Macintosh would make a car that was powered by the sun, was
reliable, five times as fast and twice as easy to drive - but would
run on only five percent of the roads.

6. The oil, water temperature, and alternator warning lights would
all be replaced by a single "This Car Has Performed An Illegal
Operation" warning light.

7. The airbag system would ask "Are you sure?" before deploying.

8. Occasionally, for no reason whatsoever, your car would lock you
out and refuse to let you in until you simultaneously lifted the door
handle, turned the key and grabbed hold of the radio antenna.

9. Every time a new car was introduced car buyers would have to learn
how to drive all over again because none of the controls would
operate in the same manner as the old car.

10. You'd have to press the "Start" button to turn the engine off.

Susan
Thans so much for your prompt service. I received my copy of "The Beast That Shouted Love...". In perfect condition, and such prompt service.

My collection has grown richer.

DORMAN: I know who you are....now >grins<

God, but it's cold here. My boogers have frozed all up.

Regards,

Rick

Jon/Chuck,

Better still, stop using Internet Explorer and switch to Nescape 7 (or its fraternal twin, Mozilla). Netscape/Mozilla features built-in pop-up blocking and negates the need for additional software running in the background (and believe me, if you're running Win98 the less you have running in the background, the better). I second the suggestion to use Ad-Aware. Good stuff, and the basic, personal edition is free.

If you're stuck with Internet Explorer, I'd suggest going to Google and installing their toolbar. Blocks pop-ups really well and it's also free.

YMMV-
-Andrew

Peg: Your stuff arrived. OVER THE EDGE will be mailed today.

Yes! Yes! Yes!
Alan Brennert's TIME AND CHANCE: yes! Beautiful book, which deserves to be rediscovered.

Harlan: are you going to be at I-con this year?

Spybot Stuff and TZ/Ellison Reference
Chuck,

If you don't have it already, first, go to www.panicware.com and download their free version of Pop-Up Stopper. This will kill most pop-up ads. Second, go to http://www.safer-networking.org/ and download the free copy of Spybot Search and Destroy. It will seek out "adware" and other malicious crap, delete it from your computer, and immunize it in the future. (Or, go to www.lavasoftusa.com to download Ad-Aware, another great program the kills crap like Gator and other adware/spyware from your system.)

Now, since this is Harlan's board, enough with the computer stuff already...

I just wanted to mention that I was amused to hear recently, at the end of Joss Whedon's "Firefly" episode "Trash," the captain character say, "We've got to get this merchandise to Brennert and Ellison right away." Everyone probably knows of Alan Brennert and Harlan's work on the Twilight Zone revival back in 1985-1986; I'd also like to put in a plug for Alan Brennert's beautiful novel "Time and Chance," which deals with life and the paths not taken. When I first started dating my (now-wife) Joan back in 1991, I loaned it to her, and it's been a touchstone reference in our relationship ever since. (Also, FYI -- I met Joan through Great Expectations in Sausalito -- literally chose her out of 450 women -- and have been married to her for 11 years. Harlan, I don't know if you're still on their board of directors, but we're definitely one of their success stories!)

And, speaking of Harlan and beautiful writing, my recent reading (in The Essential Ellison) of his heartfelt essay on writing the eulogy for his mother put tears in my eyes. It has an emotional purity and directness that could cut right through every layer of Tony Stark's armor and cause his heart to fibrillate.

-- Jon

Vultures, vultures everywhere....


I decided to post this here, since some of the people who read and post at the webderland don't go to the other board.

Warning!

I have had something that pops up whenever I try to go to my home page at msn.com. It's from InternetAntiSpy.com, and it pretty much dominates the screen and causes my cd-rom drawer to open. It then, in flashy graphics, annouces,
"Your privacy is at risk! What should you do?"
"Your IP address has been traced"
"Windows 98 is your operating system" (true)
"You are in Denver, USA" (sort of true)

Just to let you know someone is making leechlike attacks on people's home pages in order to practically extort a software sale from them. I've contacted my ISP, who doesn't yet realize what really going on. I'll clue them in. In the meantime, watch out. Vultures, vultures everywhere.

Chuck

>I'll TELL you who is Dorman. Dorman is the guy who knows where to get the best BBQ in K.C., thass who Dorman is!

>>That would be the Rosedale, then?

Nope. If you're talking BEST, it can only be Arthur Bryant's.

Mark,
on his way to the 2nd Avenue Deli for blintzes (no sour cream).

JAY:

"Perhaps, then, you shouldn't have flashed your butt cheeks in a tattoo parlor!"

...I was drunk, man! OK? I didn't know what I wuz doin'. I just came in lookin' fer a woman!

>I'll TELL you who is Dorman. Dorman is the guy who knows where to get the best BBQ in K.C., thass who Dorman is!

That would be the Rosedale, then?

WHO IS DORMAN?

I'll TELL you who is Dorman. Dorman is the guy who knows where to get the best BBQ in K.C., thass who Dorman is!

Harlan

WHO IS DORMAN?
NEAL: Good question. For that matter, who are any of us? And what's it all about (Alfie)? Here is a brief biography I found about "Dorman" while doing some recent surfing on the web: "Rumored to be the illegitimate child of writers Harlan Ellison and Connie Willis, Dorman was orphaned at the age of twenty-three and left at the doorstep of an Army Recruiting center in a small, Gulf Coast fishing village. After Army medical doctors informed him he suffered from incurable satyriasis, Dorman turned to freelance writing for therapy after he was mustered out for humping the leg of a very pretty Second Lieutentant. He is currently working on a novel about a 'man who is obsessed with a large, white whale' and attending classes every so often at a Midwestern University, hoping to attain a degree in anthropometry."

Hope that clears things up a bit.
Best, DTS.

Neal: Oh, yeah. HE's introductory/prefatory/endwordery/linkery (apologies for the neologisms) material in his various antholgies and collections sort of spoils one for other writers unless they do something similar. There all sorts of neat sparks going off in A,DV (simply to use it as an example) -- HE and Joanna Russ mentioning different Keith Laumer works in the HE intro and Russ afterword to Russ's story, for instance.

Take care, Jon

Dorman
I am wondering, who is Dorman?

Jon: YES! My earliest prolonged encounter with anything Ellison (anything Ellison?) was my experience reading the intro to A,DV. Every time I reread it I wonder how HE knew I had stolen my original copy. Little old shoplifter me. Because of those intros I never skip any intro to any book. I think they are vital, and a sort of artform.

Regards,

Neal

To Alex Berman, re putting my books in order. I don't try especially hard to keep'em in order. Sure, there are series books which I keep together, like the Flashman books, the Durants' histories, Patrick O'Brian, Dave Sim. My Ellison boks are in one shelf in a row. I have a section made up of small chapbooks. And the art books are usually on the lowest shelf.

But the general principle is one I described on this board at least a year ago. The more scrambled the books are, the bigger the library looks. People come in and they see what I have... but they're never certain that they've seen _everything_ I have. Putting the books in order lets you see the boundaries, the limits, the overall shape of the thing. Leaving them random creates nooks, crannies, cul-de-sacs, and odd pairings.

It's like this. Imagine two cities. The first was designed rationally. The streets form grids, the buildings share design elements with their neighbors, their heights and widths fit into set ranges, and businesses, residences, and small shops are strictly zoned.

The second grew naturally. The streets meet at strange angles, and curve around like sleeping rattlesnakes. Skyscrapers exist alongside of tiny antique shops. Factories have been converted into loft apartments. Squatters took over old tailors' shops and made'em into punk-rock venues.

Now I want to move to London or Paris.

labeled for life...
Rob,

Perhaps, then, you shouldn't have flashed your butt cheeks in a tattoo parlor!

The Time of the Eye - Not!
Harlan,

Best of luck with the eye surgery.

Chuck

Urf. Screwed up the parentheses. I hate when I do that.

I forgot to mention: Yes; Julie's new e-mail address HAS already gotten offers for millions in Nigerian dollars ...

REGARDING JULIE SCHWARTZ: Comics historian, scripter, and essayist Mark Evanier has set up a special e-mail address for any fan of comics or speculative fiction who wants to well-wish Julie: mail your missives off to schwartz@newsfromme.com and he'll be certain to get it--though he'll have to wade through a good amount of love, it looks like. On Peter David's message board, Glenn Hauman--Peter's webmaster and an all-around nice guy--added, "One assumes, if you are a pretty girl, that pictures of smiles will also be appreciated."

(and lest some of you think that this is only of interest to comics fans, let's remember that this is the guy who pretty much discovered Ray Bradbury and Alfred Bester, started the first science fiction fanzine (along with Mort Weisinger, Allen Glasser, and Forrest Ackerman, agented for most of the biggest names in Science Fiction's Golden Age, and lots more.)

HARLAN: Here's my wish for a successful and uncomplicated--um--"Time of the Eye."
But ... 250,000 books. Oh, I drool. I foam at the mouth in unrequited wordlust. And people marvel at my scant three thousand ... Oh, boooookssss ....

BRIAN: On that same subject ... you don't alphabetize? Categorize? Spend hours in OCD frenzies rearranging your books?

Lee,

"your psychosis is showing."

FLASH your butt cheeks for a few seconds and you’re labeled for life!

NOW I know how Howard Dean feels.

This is purely because it's snowing/sleeting here and I can't get anything done that I really need to get done, and because there seem to be a few new folks that glance at this site and may not know better...BUT, to respond to Rob and I will sayeth no more on the subject.

Frank asked Chris:
"...I read an essay by a Japanese film critic that said that Lost In Translation had racist stereotypes against the Japanese. Your take?"

Chris responded that Lost in Translation is a film "filtered through the perception of two characters who just don't get it...they don't see the poetry or the beauty of Tokyo except in a few bits and pieces. They're lost themselves and being in a foreign city heightens the sense of dislocation."

Pretty much accurate.

Rob said, "...but what would [Chris] know about racist stereotypes? Half the time we know an obvious stereotype when we see one; half the time it soars right past us, the most humble of viewers. And anyway, often enough we'll just blow it off in light of our biases for a film..."

Now, I will take scalpel and peel away Rob's musings to show how ignorant and inconsequential they are. For those with weak stomachs (or, no wish to be bored) please turn away. It won't be bloody, but it will be messy.

Rob, in retorting to my retort, said the following: "I wasn't talking about LOST IN TRANSLATION. So, I didn't NEED to see it to post those comments."

Scalpel. Well, see the thing is, Rob, Frank and Chris were talking about that particular movie.

Rob also said, "I set the vectors in another direction to talk about a sometimes impalpable impasse."

Clamp. Funny how you always seem to do this, but you don't let anyone know until after someone else calls you on your original inane comments. I'm not saying that those comments don't have a place in a discussion centered around a case of beer, a dorm-room, and a couple of movie geeks, but we seem to come back to the point that it didn't really have much to do with the discussion at hand about this particular film.

Rob then went on to pontificate concerning his point about stereotypes in movies in general and wrapped up with: "...what locks the equation is that there are many audiences who share those misconceptions, however subtle some may be. It then requires a group outside that circle to bring it to their attention, and the public will often respond with, "Huh? Wha-what ya talkin' about?".

Cotton. Cotton. COTTON! And we come back to the point, Chris' point, that LOST IN TRANSLATION ain't about perpetuating any racism or stereotypes about the Japanese. And one must see the film to understand that it had nothing to do with what Rob was talking about*, but only serves to cement the conclusion that having nothing to add to a conversation doesn't keep one from trying to add that nothing to the conversation.

Rob said, "...that was what my joke at Chris was about...Swathed in dry humor, I guess. But that was it."

Suture. Oh. I didn't realize that Rob was making a joke. See, I thought jokes had to have punchlines, but maybe that's just me.


*NOTE: The question concerned Japanese stereotypes and LOST IN TRANSLATION does not perpetuate any Japanese stereotype. However, the American stereotype is shown in this movie, but I would argue that this stereotype is more true than most other stereotypes and specifically done in this movie to make the broader point (again, as Chris mentioned) that these Americans were "lost" in their lives and not just in their environment.

Author question
Hi guys,

I'm de-lurking for a question. I'm looking for some information on an author who wrote (or may still write) science fiction stories back around the 1950's. His name is/was Frank Quattrocchi (same name as my mom's father...not the same guy though, but that's why there's a family interest) and my mom found online that he'd done some science fiction writing and I stumbled across him on an old episode of X Minus One entitled "Sea Legs"

Any information would be great.

Thanks
Tony Adams

p.s. Harlan, good luck with the eye surgery!

Kerry: Yes if you'd care to talk about the retina surgery please e-mail me: TheDoh@prodigy.net.
I have tears in my retina ( in both ) as well. They don't need sugery unless they get bigger. If so I would have laser surgery. If the retina actually detaches-I think that is some other kind of surgery. Something much worse I imagine.

Harlan, thanks for the check on your book numbers. I remember an anthology of interviews with SF writers that came out around 1980 (yes, that one), where it was reported that you'd had a house guest count'em up, and the total came to about fifty thousand books. At the time, I was in high school, and a quick count of my own collection came to about a thousand or so. So I figured, okay, maybe by the time I hit my late forties, I'd have a comparable collection. Looks like you've set yet _another_ standard beyond those of mortal men, dammit.

As for whether any of us have _read_ all the books we own, well, that reminds of of the exhcnage with that friend of mine. I owned up that I haven't read all of my books: maybe sixty or seventy percent. But a lot were puchased for reference, or they're art books, and some were just to _have_ in case I got the whim to read them. I believe this to be the rule for bibliophiles.

(The following's directed towards the forum as a whole.) I know I've mentioned this before, but one thing I'm proud of with my books is that I have a pretty impressive variety. I have friends with huge book collections, but their collections tend to be mostly one genre or another, like fantasy, science fiction, mysteries, whatever. I'm proud of the fact that my bookshelves have Montaigne next to Robert Caro, Ron Rosenbaum next to Thackeray, Patrick O'Brian alongside of Peter Biskind, biographies of Benjamin Franklin next to a small stack of _Cinefexes_.

When I said this to that friend of mine, he asked, "What about foreign language editions?" It just occurred to me that, if he'sgoing to hold the 250,000 estimate of book ownership to the time required to read them all, he really shouldn't fault people on whether they have books in other languages. Nice guy, but I don't think he quite realizes how much of a snob he really is.

Dear Lee: your books are confirmed.

Thank you--Susan

P.S. If there is no hurry for the BEAST book, I'll wait and send it with this new order. If there is a hurry...just let me know.

Ellison Book Order

SUSAN

Please reserve the following:

DEMON WITH A GLASS HAND graphic novel. DC Comics, 1986.
OVER THE EDGE. Paperback, Belmont, May 1970. FIRST EDITION.
THE TWILIGHT ZONE #1. Comic Book. Newsstand cover.
SHATTERDAY. Hutchinson, 1982. British Hardcover.
DANGEROUS VISIONS--Sphere, 3-set edition.

ROB

You know I love you, man. But … your psychosis is showing.

It seems to be forcing you to take Rich very seriously. Maybe there is some medication for this.

As for Frank, I think he is a key person on this board because he posts often, focuses on entertainment value regardless of how serious his topic is, and strikes a good balance between discussions of media and the arts, politics, devil’s advocate interactions with other posters and pure bullshit.

PAB – Let’s Beat Poetry To Death. Together, We Can Do It.

That Sam-I-Am, that Sam-I-Am! I do not like Green Eggs and Ham.

Would you like them in a verse?
Mommy’s got one in her purse.
It’s from a man from long ago,
It’s nothing she would ever show.

Because it did not come from Dad,
It’s from before when she was glad
To see a teenage fuzzy face
That made her feel she’d found her place.

Maybe you could let the little nipper scratch his head over a copy of Marvell’s “To His Coy Mistress” and let him know that in just a few short years women will become incredibly rewarding yet intricate chinese puzzle boxes of ungranted sexual favors. Without poetry, he’ll be as clueless as the monkey people in “2001: A Space Odyssey” - grappling clumsily to gain a purchase on the smooth yet unyielding surfaces of the Black Monolith.

If he says that poetry is outdated, just point out that even in our generation there is clear proof that good poetry properly applied can be the automatic garage door opener of Love. Wasn’t it our own Bill Clinton that got Hillary and Monica both with a cheap paperback copy of Whitman’s “Leaves of Grass”?

RE: 12 year-olds and poetry

I always remember one time in high school, when the usual hue and cry went up about "why do we need to learn algebra, when will we ever use it, blah, blah, blah," and a substitute teacher was present. His response was "I don't know if you'll ever use this, but this is one of those things where if you don't learn it--you'll be washing my car one day."

I always thought that was as reasonable response as any I'd heard.

RE: Laser eye surgery

Actually, assuming that HE had cataract surgery at a top-flight facility, the bigger question would be why he would need LASIK. Much of the time people have good vision without glasses after cataract surgery (except for reading)...it would make more sense if the laser surgery was a yag capsulotomy.

As far as worrying about developing cataracts--I wouldn't. Practically everyone older than a teenager has some degree of cataract. It's a natural aging process, versus a disease munching at your eye. If you need surgery, most people find it fairly innocuous and if you get it at an outpatient surgery center, you may not even have to take your shoes off.

My two cents...

I ALWAYS know what I'm talking about, and now that THAT'S oughta the way...

RICH!

Although I probably shouldn't have sounded like I was undercutting Chris' better judgement on the basic question, if you re-read my post you may note I wasn't talking about LOST IN TRANSLATION. So, I didn't NEED to see it to post those comments.

I set the vectors in another direction to talk about a sometimes impalpable impasse. There are times when stereotypes raise their revolting heads and movie viewers will easily spot them (nowadays more than they used to); other times viewers will miss 'em - because of cultural subtleties they may not be aware of. OR, as I stated, viewers may let it go because they like the film so much (that was what my joke at Chris was about). I've seen all these scenarios. Probably partook in 'em all too, at one point or another. I could list many a film that - even when well-intended - drew on stereotypes.

The film industry today is more sensitive to issues of culture and gender than it once was, but many films still perpetuate common misconceptions about groups of people (just turn to almost any Disney flick); what locks the equation is that there are many audiences who share those misconceptions, however subtle some may be. It then requires a group outside that circle to bring it to their attention, and the public will often respond with, "Huh? Wha-what ya talkin' about?".

That wuz muh little point. Swathed in dry humor, I guess. But that was it.

So...RICH. Do you think, for once, in the neverending landscape of your myopic arrogance (with NOTHING to back it!) you can actually grasp all this? Or were you born with a defective hard disk? From the pattern I've seen stretching way back I suspect the latter.

BRIAN:

I guess books alone, it's now about 265-70,000; but if you count in the comics -- arriving here from the publishers at a rate of maybe 200 a month, including graphic novels -- it's got to be well over 300,000 separate publications in my library. And even with the realization that I can NEVER get everything I own read before I become daisy mulch, even so, the stuff just keeps massing up here.

Harlan

Why We Bother With Poetry

PAB

We live best when we feel deeply, and the fine arts have evolved steadily over the centuries – not to be approachable or easy to grasp, but to be capable of striking us cleanly to the very center of ourselves. We gasp at the ballet, or cry at the opera, and occasionally we may even sit lost in a moment of quiet astonishment after reading a poem that brings into sharp focus an aspect of the human experience that until that moment we have blindly lived but never really felt.

As for the question, “Why do we bother with poetry?” The more general question is, “Why do we bother with ANY unnecessary thing designed solely to be enriching to our lives?” Whether you’re twelve or fifty-two, my response is, “If you can’t figure the answer to that one out, maybe you should just slash your wrists and get it over with.” In the end you’re just going to die anyway.

Ray, The Wrapmaster is honored. Thank you.

Rob,
Yet again you show a penchant for not knowing what the hell you're talking about. You haven't seen the movie in question. You haven't read the review that Frank lobbed at us with 8-seconds of the 10-second fuse already cooked off. And you regard Chris' viewing of the film as "intuition".

Go see the flick and you'll know that Chris is right. (POV, baby. It's everything.)

And, as an addition to Chris' comments regarding Lost In Translation, I would argue that the American characters are not shown in the most positive light--including all the American characters and not just the main characters.

DTS,

I hope you don't think I was upset. My comments were made with a Captain Renualt-style fatalistic shrug. Quiche sarong-sarong, and all that.

Chuck

-
My best ten list included RETURN OF THE KING, but not in first place. It was beaten by several films, including the astounding, brilliant documentary CAPTURING THE FRIEDMANS.

Okay, here'a an utterly trivial question for Harlan. How many books do you own?

Here's why I'm asking. I had a friend over to visit last night, and we spent some time talking about our repective book collections. There was a certain amount of competition in the conversation, and he mentioned someone he knew who had "tens of thousands."

So I mentioned your fabled book collection which, recalling some now-forgotten source, I said was roughly 250,000 books. (Before you caution me about believing rumor and legend, I'd like to say that I wouldn't be as cavalier about such claims if the matter was terrifically important.) My friend was more than surprised at this claim, as 250,000 volumes is about the size of Penn's Fine Arts library-- which is outgrowing its Frank Furness-designed home.

I said that I could be wrong, but between the fabled comics collection, the 50,000 books reported in your collection about twenty years ago, and this half-remembered figure of 250,000, I maintained that the figure was plausible. (The friend then raised issues of how long it'd take to _read_ that many, but I suggested that there were probably duplicates, foreign-language editions, books purchased for collection purposes and research, etc.)

All in all, I figured I ought to check with you directly. Roughly, how many books do you own?

(I haven't counted mine lately, but it's bound to be a couple of thousand. But I did get a nice thrill when the friend said that my own collection was definitely larger than his. Heh, heh, heh.)

DEB - Eye Surgery
Deb,

Harlan is right. Laser surgery is nothing to fear. I have had retinal tears in both eyes and some mutant blood vessels repaired.
The procedure for retinal surgery is different to my reading on lasik surgery.
If you want to know about the procedure I had just let me know.

Kerry

Mr. Ellison...

http://www.jsonline.com/enter/books/reviews/dec03/195594.asp

This is the address of the Journal review if this helps at all

Chester

DTS: The Milwaukee.

DEB / TODD: Not in a chat room. I'll call you, and the three of us can talk about lasik. I don't have your number. Either ask Rick to give it to you, or give him yours to relay to me. We can speak at a time mutually convenient.

THIS IS NOT SOMETHING TO FEAR. TRUST ME.

Yr. pal, Harlan

Frank,

With all due respect to Chris' intuition about film (noting I haven't seen Lost In Translation, though I plan to), and this is not to slight his intelligence at all, but what would he know about racist stereotypes? Half the time we know an obvious stereotype when we see one; half the time it soars right past us, the most humble of viewers. And anyway, often enough we'll just blow it off in light of our biases for a film (look how outrageously I cuddle to those early outright racist Johnny Weismuller Tarzans!) OR simply discard the criticism as politically correct knee-jerking. Even well-intentioned stuff sometimes falls back on stereotypes - without even meaning to.

Eye surgery?
Harlan, are you having Lasik surgery? My eye doctor was telling me only recently that he has had several patients who had problems with that, most approx. 18 months after the surgery was done, they started seeing halos and blurs around lights, couldn't drive at night etc. Just something to check into.

Unless of course you're having some other kind of surgery then please pay no attention to the above :)

I haven't said anything about Julie because I don't know the man yet there's no doubt he's been an important person in my life, one of the more important figures in 20th century Americna pop culture, wouldn't you say? Of course, that's how I know him and Harlan knows him as Julie not a "figure of culture" so I tend not to say much but I'll send my best wishes for a guy who's made my time on this planet a whole lot more enjoyable than it would have been without him. Get well, be happy, Julie.



Frank,

I view Lost in Translation as Tokyo filtered through the perception of two characters who just don't get it. Poetry is what's lost in the translation and they don't see the poetry or the beauty of Tokyo except in a few bits and pieces. They're lost themselves and being in a foreign city heightens the sense of dislocation. Go to another country and the people do seem weird. Just like you seem weird to them. I think the film did a beautiful job of capturing that quality.

As for Return of the King, you're so big on other Hollywood releases, why dismiss the one that's actually well-made? This ain't Michael Bay or Roland Emmerich we're talking about. These LOTR films are genuinely fine works of cinema. And a hell of a lot of fun.

Reviews
HARLAN: I haven't been as vigilant about getting tearsheets of the book reviews in the past year or so. Was that the Denver Post or the Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel? Either way, I'll see if I can an actual hard copy for you. If I do so, I'll let you know when it's in the mail.
--DTS

Yea, Return Of The King is the best film of the year. Snooze. And, McDonalds is the best cuisine. You mooks need some help. Lol.

Chris, I read an essay by a Japanese film critic that said that Lost In Translation had racist stereotypes against the Japanese. Your take?

---------------------

Michael Moore is famous again. Thanks, Peter Jennings, ya corporate media puke. Go back to Canada, cheese eater. Lol.

Please add: Thankyou Cindy for your response to me Q. You are one of the reasons I stay here!

Harlan: I must have missed it, but why are you getting laser eye surgery? I have holes in my retina that could get worse at any time and then I would need surgery--it terrifies me. Todd already has the start of cataracts and is of course scared to death that he may need surgery someday. Any eye problem is a horror to me! But maybe you are just going to get the kind that makes you no longer need glasses??? Which I doubt you'd do, if I may be so bold as to say so. Fill us in please! Good luck to you!!

DORMAN:

Many thanks for the nice review of the Jacques Futrelle book I edited. Judy Sternlight, my editor at Random House, sent me a fuzzy fax, but I was able to make it out. Again, my gratitude.
---------------------------------------------------------------
TO ALL:

Julie is still in hospital. The cough is yet with him, his feet are badly swollen (I'm not sure what that means, beyond the likelihood that blood isn't moving as it should in his lower extremeties), and his hearing has lapsed slightly; that is, he had trouble hearing me, and had to ask me to speak louder. Andrea was with him, the doctor was just coming in to see him, and I got outta there. More later, as appropriate.
----------------------------------------------------------------

The laser surgery, part one, on my right eye will be 4 February.
I'll keep you informed, if you want an update. La dee dah.

Yr. pal, Cyclops Ellison

Hamill making fanboy movie

http://www.comicbookthemovie.com/

CHUCK: Actually, that was my attempt at lame humor. Come to think of it, I succeeded.
ALL: If you ever get the chance to disengage yourselves from the corporate-driven driven life (via work, or what have you), do it and don't look back. Although I haven't yet reached the point where I'll feel monetarily comfortable (gettin' there, gettin' there), I HAVE had a _great_ time just doing my job (something that was never true when working for rent money). In the past five or six years of profiling various people I've talked to folks like Harlan, ret. Col. David Hackworth, Nevada Barr, Martin Cruz Smith, sculptor Clee Richeson, Dan Simmons, Robert Parker, Michael Crichton, Joe Haldeman, Joe R. Lansdale, Connie Willis, Alice Hoffman, Minette Walters, Patricia Cornwell, a squad of "performance art" cheerleaders called "Rah-Booty!," Stephen King, Peter Straub, a passel of WWII veterans here in the KC area, David Morrell, a handful of Civil War historians, John Irving, Michael Ondaatje, painter Dennis Yates, movie producer Richard Gladstein, Candace Busnell, Laurel K. Hamilton, world renown photographer David Douglas Duncan, and (literally)dozens of other writers, artists, lawyers, mechanics and homemakers. With the exception of maybe two (who remain unnamed and unmentioned), every last one of them was fascinating. Here's to breaking the ties that bind us Americans (in one way or another) to the corporate treadmill. Life is good.
--DTS

Wrapmaster!

DEAR SUSAN,

My book arrived yesterday in pristine condition. The time and care you put into wrapping and packing, as if it were a priceless jewel. Which a personally autographed book by Harlan is, of course.

A nice slice of SF history
This year's Worldcon will feature the retro Hugo awards for 1953. In an effort to raise awareness of the voting body for the period and what went on in the field in 1953, the Noreascon 4 site has a downloadable PDF file with a great overview of the year - the novels and stories, the artists, and a perspective on SF fandom in 1953 by Juanita Coulson (with additional comments by Robert Silverberg) that's a wonderful read. It's well worth a few minutes of your time. (Plus, there's a terrific photo of Harlan with Robert Bloch, Evelyn Gold and Arthur C. Clarke, in case you needed eye candy to prod you through the door).

You can find it here for your amusement: http://www.noreascon.org/files/Retropub.pdf

Oh - and seeing as 1953 boasted Ray Bradbury's "Fahrenheit 451", Hal Clement's "Mission of Gravity", Arthur C. Clarke's "Childhood's End" and Theodore Sturgeon's "More Than Human", I wish anyone voting on retro Hugos jolly good luck in choosing a single winner from THAT class.

Neal: On a similar path to your musings, I was struck (ouch) by the sheer expansiveness and generosity of the set-up of Again, Dangerous Visions, which I reread during the board-down period last week. Ellison intro, story, author afterword -- making the whole thing an experience. Yes, folks, Ellison invented the special edition DVD in book form.

By the by, Mark Evanier's set up an email address for people to send messages to Julius Schwartz. The full explanation is over at his board at www.newsfromme.com

Take care, all, Jon

I was thinking about Julie Schwartz going to live with his grandson and family. LUCKY michael and spouse, LUCKY michael's kids. This is a wonderful thing for them to have a chance to spend time with such a treasure. It could be one of the best chapters of all of their lives.
When I was a little girl and my father left we lived with my grandparents for a year and a half. I've never forgotten my time with them-- I treasure the memory. My grandfather's been gone for 35 years--but my affection for him has not diminished. I still miss him. My grandmother was married to him for over 50 years and after he died my mother suggested she consider meeting a new gentleman. My grandmother's response was," After Jim Gandy I never met a man I'd wipe my feet on."

Here's to many, many more wonderful years for Julie Schwartz-- he's still a relative pup compared to my grandmother at almost 102.
:)
Cindy


Hey Neal!
I loved your response to P.A.Berman's question.
I am touched and honored that you said you like me best.
I like the hell outa YOU already.

Cindy

Welcome, welcome,Guy and Tony Isabella.
:)
Cindy

Joseph Finn,
Thank you for the heads up. I'll be watching for the release.
:)
Cindy

Deb,
The reason it was okay to jump on Ben when we didn't know it was OUR Ben was because an unknown person who says something caustic it is taken as an attack. When BEN, OUR Ben says something inflamatory here we know he's jokin' around. We can needle and elbow here at Webderland because we know underneath we're all related.I can talk all manner of smack about my brothers-- but nobody else better.

That's MY take.
:)
Cindy


Hey Barney,
Your Lenora's idea about the spray bottle was genius!
yer pal,
Cindy

I thought Naomi Watts, to put it bluntly, stunk up the joint in 21 Grams. Why is it that every time a woman gets a role in which she spends 90% of her on-screen time crying and/or shrieking at the top of her lungs everyone thinks it was a great performance? Witness Annette Bening in American Beauty or Halle Berry in Monster's Ball and other equally shrill, hysterical, one-note performances. I found 21 Grams little more than a run-of-the-mill melodrama that was told out of order. People sure do go ape-shit over any movie when the director decides to cut page 104 and put it after page 8 and then move page 12 in between pages 74 and 75. I simply didn't find any of the characters in the film plausible or involving and the heavy-handed technique definitely got in the way.

The Best Film of the Year is Lost in Translation by a nautical mile. But if Return of the King wins the Oscar, it will be the best Oscar winner since Unforgiven.

I was mildly disappointed in The Fog of War but that's only because I have such absurdly high expectations for Errol Morris films. It's a very good movie and one of the better films of the year. This was a robust year for documentaries and I think Winged Migration, Spellbound and Capturing the Friedmans all are worthy picks. Lost in La Mancha wasn't swiss cheese either.

DTS,

Spirit is showing SOME signs of life. This isn't the first probe to have a distressing blackout, and some managed to recover and bring back some terrific data. Voyager 2, Magellan and Pathfinder are three examples. Voyager 2 had little strokes and cybernetic heart attacks on a regular basis.

We'll just have to wait and see.

Chuck

Good commentary--worth rereading
I'va always preferred Unca Harlan's commentaries and introductions more than anything else, and today I rediscovered his excellent introduction to Lupoff's (renamed) "Space War Blues", it's so brutally honest it made me tired reading it. Dick Lupoff's preface is no less harrowing. Well worth rereading if you own this excellent novel. (It's pages are tinted turquoise.)

Humbly,

Neal

Joseph:

Yep, a proud card carrying member and board director of the CFCA I am. And, boy, was this a really exciting year votewise. "Return of the King" won by a mere three points. I was glad to see "City of God" win Best Picture and "The Fog of War" best documentary. But, damn, I wish Naomi Watts could have taken away Best Actress and Guillermo Arriaga Best Screenplay for "21 Grams".

And I still insist, no matter how good "Monster" may be, it is NOT the best film of the year.

Alejandro

Huh - I never knew our own Alejandro Rieja was a member of the Chicago Film Critics Association, which announced it's 2003 awards yesterday. Bully for you, Alejandro!

Those interested in some things can check out the awards here: http://www.chicagofilmcritics.org/win03.html

Here's hoping Julie Schwartz gets well soon and has the grace to accept new living arrangements- it's a painful business giving up one's independence.

PAB: Regarding your "I loathe poetry" student-have him read and do a book report on either "Shakespeare bats cleanup", by Ron Koertge or "Bronx Masquerade", by Nikki Grimes-two terrific books where teens and poetry meet.

Re: Julie Schwartz and....Mars
HARLAN: My eighty-year-old mother-in-law -- a terrific woman who, as a sort of Rosie-the-riveter, helped build B-25s right her in KC, had a very similar experience to Julies. She fell, cutting open her forehead, twice. In her case, it was due to infirmity exascerbated by polio, which she caught when younger. Her husband died back in '87, so she'd been living on her own (with frequent visits from kids, of course) for some time. Her indepence had always been something in which she took pride; so it took a while, but my wife and her brother finally convinced her to move to a "senior commmunity" type set-up. She hasn't regretted a day of living in that new community, and she's been there for over four years now. With no more accidents. Hope Julie's kids convince him to do so.
Re MARS: With "Spirit" biting the dust, you'd think the guys at NADA would have figured out that there IS life on Mars -- they just (in the words of Garbo) "vant to be alone."
--DTS

GUY LILLIAN:

You can send the fmz to me as follows:

Harlan Ellison
c/o HERC
PO Box 55548
Sherman Oaks,
California 91413-0548

Thanks. I look forward to.

-------------------------------------------------------------

ALEX KRISLOV:

My best-in-stock supply of good luck and good wishes are with you. By UPS, look for a large carton of miracles. And FedEx has just left with a courier pak of Unexpected Good Turns.

--------------------------------------------------------------

THE LATEST ON JULIE SCHWARTZ:

Apparently, he had been falling down more than this once. (I spoke to him earlier today, he was sitting up in a chair in his room at Winthrop Hospital.) The first couple of times he didn't tell anyone (typical of him ... he is fiercely independent, as I said in an earlier post), but very early Friday morning (or very very wee hours late Thursday night, if you prefer) he got up to urinate, and he slipped, and he fell; and this time he couldn't get up. He lay there for about an hour, as he recalls. Then the MedicAlert -- not getting a response -- called Andrea, and thereafter, as I've reported, he was taken by ambulance to Winthrop. Nothing was broken, but he seemed to be out of it, disoriented, confused -- which Julie ain't, ordinarily.

He was in emergency all day Friday, and most of Saturday, before being moved to a private room, where he remains.

When I spoke to him, he said he wasn't disoriented; he said he SEEMED to be out of it because he had lost his hearing totally. But it came back today. He heard me just fine via long distance. But he had a rotten wracking cough. A real hacking rattler. He didn't know what it was, but he asked me what I do for a cough, and I told him to let the doctor know about it when he made his rounds, and to try and get a cherry Cepacol lozenge until then. I am, of course, loath to proffer medical advice: this is big time worrisome stuff.

He then said something that surprised me, mostly because of the aplomb and resignation with which he said it. "I know now I'll never be able to live alone, on my own, any more."

This is serious. Julie only LOVED being in his apartment, reading, watching tv, going down to DC in the city every week, shopping. He was distraught when he had to use a cane, followed by a four-pronged walker, and now a full-size walker. He wasn't happy about the possibility of a wheelchair or what he would consider the onerous circumstances of having to be "taken care of"; but he'll be getting out soon (he believes ... no confirmation save his presumption), and he'll be staying with Michael, his grandson, and Michael's family.

What happens thereafter -- assisted living, full-time live-in nurse, senior community -- all of which he hates the idea of -- is up in the air. I'll keep you advised.

Yr. pal, Harlan

Paula
Sorry to bother you here. I see you're on this board.

You didn't get back to me. Is there a reason? I'm posting here because I didn't keep your email address. I'm still interested in collaborating, are you?

Thanks.

Heather

Barry Dannelke
Hi there,

Say this place must be filled with people of note. You obviously are close friends with Unca Harlan, could you give me a short bio?

I feel like one of those annoying Hollywood tourists who walk up to people and say, "Hey, are you famous?"


Please forgive my impertinence,

Rick

Definitions
Really, it's a problem of definitions.

To a high school student, "Poetry and "Shakespeare" often mean "those things that I will not like."

To tell these same teens that they should like something that, by definition, they will not like is to engage in repeated abuse of very hard walls with one's head.

Use other means up to, and perhaps including, terror, extortion and torture.

Steve Dooner

and you used to think Giant Ants were scary...
Harlan - Got it. No, really. Although the verdant glen stuff was some funny shit.

I'm going to try and call SUSAN [not you - SUSAN] this afternoon to confirm the Eidelon and nail down any foreign ed.'s that may linger. While I very much appreciate the comp'd Marketplace I am fully expecting Susan to be in full on Merchant mode about everything else. I sell books every day, and NOT for charity.

Julie - Oh, man. I completely feel your pain on this one. My next door neigbors - George and Alma Daily, are in their mid-nineties. It took us a year just to convince George that Meals On Wheels at lunchtime wasn't like taking apple butter from the county or some other fatally beholden type of situation.

Their oldest daughter stays with them through the winter because she can still drive. She's 71. George himself is like Reagan crossed with the Terminator. He sold me his 40' ladder when he turned 91 because he finally decided he didn't need it anymore. The previous summer he used it to do third story facia and sophet work on Tommy's Luncheonette. He gardens. He paints his rental properties. He WILL outlive me. Problem is now he is seeing ants everywhere. Last week he ripped up the carpeting in the stairwell to get at them. Ever do a carpet ripout Harlan? Try it again 26 years from now on your biological clock. I can barely do that shit now. ANTS in the middle of January. And trust me on this, George and Alma's whole living situation looks like your Mom's kitchen floor right before company comes. There are no ants. Did you know that anti-psychotic drugs that alleviate these sorts of hallucinations are far less effective on the brain chemistry of people this old? I do now. Lenora hit on the idea of giving him a spray bottle with water in it to kill the ants with. Now the ants only come once a day or so.

Do you suppose either one of these people will consider for one moment ANY sort of assisted living situation? Dream on. So, do I
have some concept of the Julie situation? Oh yeah, I think I do. Actually, with the absolute collapse of damn near every social safety net in the country and with the U.S. Health care system in shambles I'm guessing over half the people on this list, fuckit, make that 90% of the list have got one of these horror stories to tell. Probably more than one.

So, do I REALLY REALLY care about SFWA by-laws today, or any other day? Nope.

- Barney Dannelke

Thanks Kevin. Good to hear you got the books. So far, I've used 14 rolls of packing tape. I WANT TO DUCT TAPE THE WORLD. And to think Harlan is reluctant to buy me a hot glue gun. Go figure.

All best-Susan

Julie Schwartz

Jeezus, I am very saddened to hear of Mr. Schwartz's latest setback. My thoughts go out to him and his family. Hope he has the strength to overcome this episode as he did the last. (Sigh)...it truly is a bitch to get old.

A Teen Perspective on Poetry
I was ready to pontificate about poetry when I realized I wasn’t really the one to ask. So I turned the question over to my kids.

My 17-year old daughter is a High School Senior. She promptly told me that she was not the right one to ask. Yes, she likes poetry, but not right now. Her English Lit class is currently studying poetry, and she currently hates it. She does not understand why they have to analyze every word to death. She understands, appreciates, and genuinely likes the flow and patterns of the words. She has a comprehension of how poetry works. But some teacher is currently beating the life out of it for her. She will come back, but she is in the midst of a trial separation.

My 14-year old son is a High School Freshman. When I posed the question to him, he replied that it was important to look at poetry just like it was important to look at any writing. In the future, he knows he will need to know how to write, no matter what job he has. (He did mention that he might not need it if he winds up in a MacDonald’s.) By studying and learning about all types/styles/forms of expression, he feels his writing will be better in the future. I asked him if that was what he felt, or was it just the BS he thought he should shovel. He told me it was both, but that he really thought it was a good reason to study poetry.

Damn, your kids shock you sometimes. They might turn out to be pretty cool adults.

(Warning - I may still have to pontificate later.)

Mike

Colonist's Corpse
To RICK:

I've been calling the process "tinting," but it may well have an actual publishing industry name. This was done to make the book look more like an old Perry Mason paperback.

From what Bob Ingersoll and I were told, it's been many years since the machine that does this has been used. The printer reactivated it at the request of our editor and publisher.

Thanks for the commentary re: the value of poetry. I will bring it up at the end of the unit and see what they say. The kid in question made his remark before the unit even started, so it wasn't anything I taught him that alienated him. This kid is like Mikey-- he hates everything. I can't use the music argument with him because he's not into music, though I have made that point to the students at large. However, he's a Tolkien fan, so that may work to my advantage.

I have appreciated your words on this subject, esp. the question, "What is the real life value of a 12 year old boy?" Too funny.

PAB (that's Ms. Berman, Jaimss, but don't feel bad; Ellison made the same mistake when I first showed up here)

Sorry to hear about Julie. Best wishes for good developments.

PAB: What's your poetry unit consist of? Everyone's offered lots of good advice -- I just wondered what the student (or students) were reacting badly to.

Harlan: Did you ever read Robertson Davies, specifically the Deptford trilogy (Fifth Business, World of Wonders and the Manticore)? He used that Ibsen quote for the epigraph to one of the novels.

Best to Alex Krislov, too.

Take care. The Casket of Ancient Winters is still open and buggering up half of North America...

Jon

Poetry
Somebody once pointed out that we teach poetry in the manner most designed to force kids to hate poetry: i.e. by making them memorize it. We do the same thing to history, making it a matter of memorizing names and dates and not treating it as the collection of astounding stories that it is. That may be part of the problem.

Then again, there ARE kids with no interest in anything beyond their daily lives. There are adults with the same limitation. I deal with some.

1) Julie: Yes...it really does sound like it's time for someone to stay with him.

2) A delayed response to my earlier post: If I'm to market myself as a psycho with clout and credibility I better learn how to spell POPPY field!

3) Poetry: I am not well-grounded in poetry myself and maybe that's why I have an odd impulse to contribute a thought. The first poems predate written language and were usually sung or chanted. Poetry was song. To this day they reach and touch more people carried in the meter and timing of song than anything else can. I suspect this is ingrained in the collective because throughout our history vast populations remained uneducated; but singing bonded almost everyone, regardless of their learning and status. People really well-schooled in poetry can fully appreciate the power of inflection, no matter HOW it's delivered. But the masses, I think, respond more emotionally to melody and beat.

What I'm getting at, ultimately, is that few of us are introduced to poetry early enough in our lives and when we are it's a short visit. And not to put anyone here on the spot, but I think when teachers try to spark an interest among students (and the following may be inaccurate) they leave out the historical connection with language (how well read are they on that themselves?), the rules of poetry and how we should work with those rules as listeners AND as writers. Many teachers will urge students to just read it...and, well, that's that. Most students will forget it the moment they put the book down. But I wonder how many really understand why so many are out of touch with poetry. Like, let us say Opera, poetry is an acquired taste.

Speaking for myself, I can INTUIT when I'm hearing a great wordsmith - like Langston Hughes, Robert Frost, or Theodor Geisel. Beyond that, I feel a bit of a distance from it unless it reaches me through a form like the Blues (which probably moves me like nothing else) or John Lennon. But someone reading it cold...just doesn't seem to draw the appreciation for it I feel I SHOULD have. If it's Shakespeare I tend to feel I should watch the words being performed, rather than just have someone sitting there reading it; his words, afterall, had been devised for actors. Likewise, poetry was originally devised with a different purpose in mind (even if that WAS thousands of years ago). There's nothing wrong with that in itself; but the obstacles in the transition were overlooked. Thus, poetry read or listened to "dry" does not draw dingy "commoners" like myself.

For me...there are different forms of poetry. I've met few people more sensitive to the audio/visual than myself; endless strings of metaphors my subconscious seems to generate at almost anything I look at and hear transfix me (probably because of overwhelming childhood experiences). And there tends to be a strong need for me to express it one way or another.

However...to close the original question, which I believe was BASICALLY what's the importance of poetry? (I said basically; I didn't go back to get the question verbatim) Well...at least for me, its profound historical connection with language and the way the tools are used in personal expression and imagery.

4) Finally, Neal:

a) Throughout the 60's and 70's (I bought some of those about 3 years ago) Captain Marvel belonged to Marvel. But the one true CM writer was Otto Binder in the 40's (his brother drew it for a while too). He is the author, as you might know, who did the Adam Link series (predecessor of Asimov's I, Robot). From collections I've seen, bizarre, very funny stuff. Had quite a bit of influence on me. It would be great material for animation, if faithfully adapted. Too bad about the Superman lawsuit in those ancient days; I don't know how valid the victory was. Powers n' all that nonsense were the same, but nothing else was. 'Less Binder was gone by then and content staled.


b) Putting Outer Limits on amidst cartoons sounds pretty off to me. That was often one bloody, violent show. I'd only seen it mid-afternoons or late night (in the early 80'S I watched it regularly along side The Fugitive). The one that pounded me into the cushions was (well, among a few) Corpus Earthling: a knife is thrust into an assailant (possessed by simple rock-like alien lifeforms); a bloody squib blasts out of someone's chest; and Robert Culp is forced to shoot (possibly fatally) his wife, with whom he is so in love with. Heavy and cerebral stuff sometimes; I don't think local tv station managers pay attention to anything.

c) I placed trust in you not to convey our little tete-a-tete about Frank and Britney in this here arena. Let's just keep, uh, the rest of it to ourselves - the stuff about the shemale hiding in Frank's closet after Britney left his place, n' all that.

Harlan,

"Who reminds you of the grand quote by Ibsen: "To live is to war with trolls." " Very appropriate for an internet venue, especially considering the unwanted guests we've had in the past.

Chris Barkley,

Welcome to Fear and Loathing in the Job-Hunting Trail. May your joblessness be short and painless.

Alex Krislov,

Hang in there. I hope the radiation zaps that traitorous tissue and ends this once and for all.

And good thoughts, prayers or whatever will damn well work for Julie Schwartz. May this be nowhere near as bad as it looks.

Chuck

Attention Shoppers...
Due to a rather sudden and nasty bout of unemployment, I have posted a variety of fiction and non-fiction books on eBay for sale under the seller name: cmbarkley825. More books and other items will be added in the upcoming weeks. Tell you friends, tell your cousins, tell your Aunt May...

My apologies for posting here; for some technical reason, I could not place an announcement on the Ellison Want Ads. Thanks for your time and attention...

cmb

ELLISON BOOK ORDER RECEIVED
SUSAN:
My books arrived today. What a wrapping and packaging job! Next time I move, I'm calling you.

HARLAN:
Thanks for the kind inscriptions. The books are gorgeous, especially MIND FIELDS, which I'd only previously seen in its softcover edition.

Kevin

North Tonawanda?
Hit the wrong key or something. My mother's in a nursing home in North Tonawanda, NY, but *we* live in New Orleans. Jeezus.

Julie Schwartz
Hi Harlan -- Thanks for the word about Julie. I pray God to have yet another miracle in hand for him. I know we shouldn't expect miracle after miracle after miracle to keep this glorious human being among us, but I don't care. Please God, let him get better.

Harlan, to move on to more trivial subjects, any of my silly zines you want to see, you got. I don't have the address, though, so if you have time to drop me an e-mail with it, that'd be great. I'll trade Hanging Rock stories with you.

Rosy was really gassed to hear your note. She has a photo of you from the late sixties, and I have a slew of the whole crowd from the 1970? 71? Nebula banquet that I plan to publish soon. Don't worry; you look great.

Please keep us advised about Julie. I wish I was more religious so the words I address to the sky about him would comfort me more.

one small dannelke response & TWO IMPORTANT MATTERS

Barney: There is a copy of the COMIC BOOK MARKETPLACE on its way to you via Tim's next CARE package. Save your money.

IMPORTANT MATTER #1: Julie is, as I reported, back in Winthrop Hospital. As bad as the last interlude was, this one may be worse. He fell, early (very early) Thursday morning, MedicAlert called Andrea (grand-daughter) and reported they were getting no response from him. He was ambulanced to the hospital, and was in emergency till Saturday. He's now in a private room and Andrea told me he is "very confused." She sounded properly worried. He's seriously disoriented, woozy, at a loss for where he is, etcetera. His sodium level was very low, and the doctors think that may account for it; but that's a prelim evaluation.

This will get worse before it gets better, but one thing is now for sure, and it's the eventuality most of us have long been dreading. He cannot live alone, on his own, any more. I'll keep you informed -- I haven't called him in his "fuzzy" condition, he likely wouldn't be able to respond -- but my fear is great. Since the death of his wife, Julie has lived self-sufficiently. He values his independence mightily.

The days ahead will be taxing.

IMPORTANT MATTER #2: I am in a new jackpot with some of the yapping pups in SFWA. It will get nasty. I realize this advisement will only pique the small idiot-side of your fatal curiosity. I ask that you ignore what you hear, and STAY THE FUCK OUT OF IT!!!!!!!!! THIS IS NOT A CASUAL REQUEST; this is a loudly, clearly, imperatively spoken "Don't feed the gremlins after midnight" ORDER. Stay away from it, send no e.mails, no faxes, no chat confabs, nothing. That means you, specifically, Barney. Don't complicate an already ugly contretemps, and screw up my life more than it already has been screwed up. You hear, me, Dannelke? Try to contain your curiosity, it's none of your business, I got myself into this, I'll stand the storm. I'm a big boy and can defend myself. I do NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT want it showing up in this verdant glen.

Now repeat after me, with a hand on your heart (preferably your own hand): I will not go snuffling around for this stuff. I will not get into it. I will put it out of my mind.

I go. Yr. pal, Harlan

Who reminds you of the grand quote by Ibsen: "To live is to war with trolls."

SHAZAM!!
I was just reading up on Julie Schwartz and it looks like he was the guy who edited Captain Marvel for DC back in the 70's. Ya know, I REALLY liked that comic. And the Green Lantern is just one of the very best superheroes around. I love that green dude. Please send him my warm wishes for a speedy recovery. I'll never know how comics ever made it to the outer limits of Arizona, but they did.

Rob--thanks for the email bubba. You're a stand up guy. Is all that stuff you said about Frank and his hidden love for Britney really true? heh

P.A. Berman--as a former secondary school teacher (good golly, what a nightmare) I would suggest you turn the question back to the student. "Well young man, you just described the subject of your next essay. I want you to answer that question for me in 200 words." But I think you need to phase students into the concept of poetry with something that will get their attention. I had some students bring their favorite music, and I would bring some of mine and we would listen to Metallica and Cyprus Hill and Britney Spears, and then talk about lyrics and rhyme schemes and..well...poetry. We learned the words to "The Yellow Rose of Texas" and then sang Emily Dickinson poems to the same tune. We read Shel Silverstein. And some kids are immediately entranced, you can give them any poetry to read and they are amazed. Of course it's interesting to talk about what nutjobs some of our better poets were. That sort of attracts attention. See what kind of essay yuou can get out of a twelve year old after a few days of that. It may not work.

If all else fails, ask him what use he can attribute to his video games.

AndTODD, you don't know whatyou are missing..well, maybe you do. But don't give up on poetry until after you have read Anne Sexton. Might I suggest that you try her book titled "Transformations"?

When I was a kid growing up and watching cartoons on Saturday mornings in the late 60's, the Outer Limits would come on right after the last cartoon. There was no commercial break, I was unceremoniously thrust into this nightmare world. One episode i remember was about a soldier who was transported from an awful future at war into the present day. I may have messed my pants over that one. That was also pivotal. That is one way Harlan Ellison changed my life.

Holy cow. Thanks a lot Mr. Ellison. Were you just trying to torture me?

Washing out my mouth with gecko poop, and not smiling,much

Neal

PAB: Well, I don't suppose that your position is one in which you can get away with saying, "In a couple of years, it just might get you laid."

Had it been one of US who'd asked that, I would have pointed him to the prose styles of Alan Moore of Ted Sturgeon, whose writing owes much to the poetic rhythms and tropes they use. But a twelve-year-old? Hmm. A lot of it depends on just what KIND of poetry you're teaching. You can point to all the poetic references in his or her favorite films, of course.

Ask him or her this: Why do you like rap music? When he answers, tie the rappers of today into the--I dunno--the Romantics or Gothics of days past. Or ask him or her what his favorite song is. Take down the lyrics, then recite them as poetry. Maybe, if you want, do this with, say, Nine Inch Nails' "Closer," then, pull out a poem by Wilfred Owen and recite it in the same manner. What you have to do is tie this one thing which the kid thinks "has no use in real life" to music, which has about as much use. Point out that "use" and "need" are two very different things, and that all kinds of art has a USE which he may just not be seeing. Of course, you'll have to do this in a much less condescending way than perhaps *I* have, but I have every confidence that you'd have to be good at that to do what you do.

ALEX K.: Keep working toward health, friend. We're witcha.

TONY I.: Good to see you here, sir; I've much enjoyed your comics and your columns.

HARLAN: Again, send our best wishes to Julie. Ask him if he knows that there are better ways of meeting cute nurses than this.

Also, I just listened to the first VOICE FROM THE EDGE collection in toto on a late-night binge. Fine, fine stuff, and I eagerly await Volume III.

the poetry query
P.A. Berman,

"Why do we have to study poetry? It has no use in the real world, so you're just torturing us with it."

This assertion is founded on at least two fallacies. First, it assumes that practical utility is the only legitimate measure of worth. If the little cherub were to apply that criterion rigorously and consistently, most of what makes his life pleasurable would be swept off the table right along with the poetry that so vexes him. Second, it assumes that the skill set you are teaching him to use in the analysis of poetry is not transferable to any other purpose. The ability to think analytically comes in handy in all sorts of contexts, including, by the way, the "real world" that he cherishes so single-mindedly. If he's so eager to blow off analytical thinking as worthless, well, then I suppose he's ready to become a full fledged American voter. If nothing else works, you might just try giving the cherub your sweetest smile and asking him to explain what use a 12 year old boy is in the real world.

Steve J.

>while watching every Britney Spears video on a continuous loop. <

Frank, if the alternative is watching endless hours of Noam Chomsky drone on about who's fucking over the people this week, that sounds rapturous.

I've attached some captures from Ms. Spears newest video, for your enjoyment. You're welcome.

http://www.britneyimages.net/categories.php?cat_id=89&sessionid=dea589f5bb215e425b15fd822618957b

REPLY TO GUY LILLIAN TERTIUS (& SCHWARTZ MEDICALERT)

First of all, give Rosy a hug anna kiss for me. What a sweetie she was, and probably still is. As was her dad.

Second, when you produce that "genzine" with the anecdote in it, could I pretty please get a couple of copies? I'll pay.

And third, and not a good one: Julie Schwartz is back in the hospital. Apparently, he took a tumble in his apartment and he couldn't get up, and had to use the MedicAlert around his neck to summon an ambulance. He's back inside, but at least there IS one small bit of good news attached to this: as far as I know so far, he didn't break anything when he fell. As I learn more, I'll post it here as I did previously. Please spread the word on the net wherever you can. But tell people not to panic.

All best to everyone,

Yr. pal, Harlan

Why study poetry?
Because you might like it.

A teacher's job is to expose the student to as much diversity as possible, because preparing for the future is a full-time job, and nobody wants to be shortchanged out of that. Imagine a natural-born surfer being born in Omdurman, Sudan, and never being exposed to his true calling; or a brilliant writer never being taught to read because she’s in some godforsaken land whose denizens deny education to those they view as mere baby-making fourth-class citizens. It would be a waste....

But maybe you could explain it nicer.

To P.A. Berman, in response to the "What use is poetry?" question. In one sense, there really is _no_ use: a nice turn of phrase can be useful, and an awareness of poetic phrases and imagery from famous poems helps cultural awareness. But if the kid doesn't like poetry, he doesn't like it.

You could try to sell him on the idea that rock and rap are poetry (well, they're doggerel, but you get the idea). Or, you could recite the following to him to illustrate the entertainment value of a good limerick:

"A gay Irish priest in new Delhi
Had the Lord's Prayer tattooed on his belly.
By the time that the Brahmin
had read the "Amen,"
he'd blown both salvation and Kelly."
-- Michael O'Donoghue

To P.A. Berman, in response to the "What use is poetry?" question. In one sense, there really is _no_ use: a nice turn of phrase can be useful, and an awareness of poetic phrases and imagery from famous poems helps cultural awareness. But if the kid doesn't like poetry, he doesn't like it.

You could try to sell him on the idea that rock and rap are poetry (well, they're doggerel, but you get the idea). Or, you could recite the following to him to illustrate the entertainment value of a good limerick:

"Why do we have to study poetry? It has no use in the real world, so you're just torturing us with it."

The first answer is that above all other answers this happens to be your curriculum, and if the kid wants to try to eke out a passing grade in your class without the poetry, he needs to understand that any failure will certainly go on his PERMANENT RECORD (cue the deadly background music).

To be honest, though, I loathe poetry. With exception to some of Poe’s best and The Lovesong of J. Alfred Prufrock, poetry has never left an impression on me and when having an honest, non-curriculum related conversation with a teen over the advantages to learning/embracing/experiencing poetry I would emphasize more that they can chuck the stuff into the garbage for all I or the world cares as long as they remain open-minded about reading other things. Sure, poetry can teach someone how to be imaginative and turn a cute phrase, but so can reading a great novel or work of non-fiction.

I would tell him “You’re right, you probably won’t find use in the real world for your poetry skills, and there is a very good chance you won’t find much use in the real world for your calculus skills or your chemistry skills unless you end up in those fields. And you may not find much use for your foreign language skills unless you keep up on them after school, and you probably won’t find use for the skills you were taught on that field trip where you watched the silly woman churn butter and make a candle. You probably won’t find much use in the real world for a lot of the stuff you learn in middle school and high school and college, but as long as you keep an open mind and try to learn as much as you can and choose for yourself what you plan on forgetting as long as you’ve opened your mind up to retaining much of that detritus before you sweep it out your eyes, ears, nose and throat…..as long as you try not to be one of those morons who is proud of their lack of education and knowledge…..as long as you experience something just enough to then say with conviction that you don’t give a rat’s ass to pursue any more of that something but at least you tackled it with an open mind…..as long as you promise yourself that, then go off onto your newfound sojourn into self-education little grasshopper”

Of course, I would then tell him to mind his teacher and read the fucking poetry and pass the tests and stop stirring up trouble. When you pass the class, you can then sit in the cafeteria at lunch and pontificate “I tried poetry. I hate poetry. I don’t plan on reading poetry when I’m all big and grown up”. Then you can chuck that smashed up sandwich at little Suzy in hopes of getting yourself laid even though you don’t know what that means yet (and boy, will THAT be an education).

-TODD

On Mr. Berman's question...
"Why do we have to study poetry? It has no use in the real world, so you're just torturing us with it."


While I agree with Mr. Galloway's use of context argument to show poetic viability, I believe other avenues may hold greater promise.

With much lament, we as adults often lose the capacity to 'speak' in a manner children and adolescents understand (a malady which often permeates our "adult" conversations as well). So, when a child insists poetry holds no relevancy in real-world terms might I suggest the following: divide your room into those who like poetry and those who do not. Then, mediate a discussion between the kids on their various likes and dislikes. In this way, the children will teach each other the value of words, with you making cursory observation and points of direction. Once completed, while minds may not have altered in judgement, such judgement may lessen towards the project at hand. Plus, it shows a trust in your students, which fosters trust in themselves.

Unfortunately, many never gain appreciation of the written word and find other strengths to augment themselves. Take no offense if the student in question maintains his recalcitrant position.

The art of the curmudgeon begins in youth and bloosoms in adulthood.


In kind sincerity,
Rev. Jaimss R. Carpenter

Attempt at a Poetry Answer

I suppose I would say that they do not "have" to read poetry, but I would immediately add that they also do not need color or music in their lives. Impress upon them how hopeless life would be without color or music and let them know that poetry is just as important. Ask them why they should want to live like a robot or a half a person?

If that doesn't work, I would ask them if they ever had a feeling that hurt so much inside that they couldn't find words for it. Bring up real deaths, losses, loves and fears (now, you're risking your job, of course) and make them feel those moments all over again. After all, poetry was invented to help express inexpressible thoughts and feelings and to thaw the frozen desert that's been left inside us by life.

Tell them, by not reading poetry, they're just conforming to an expected silence that has been beaten into them by the fear and ignorance of their peers. And remember that the little treasure who asked this question is himself desperate for love. He's only harassing you to score points with his friends by stymieing the teacher. Get this kid alone, corner him, scare the hell out of him, and dare him to think for himself.

Say all of this to the miserable little reptiles, P.A. Do it with an absolutely crazy look in your eye too--like Amos in front of the temple. Chances are they'll pretend not to have heard you, but someday when death or love hits them hard, part of them will remember what you said and be haunted by you forever. Torturing them thus, you will have engaged in a compassionate act that may eventually save their souls.

Poetry is serious business for me.

Steve Dooner

Poetry for 12 year olds
Well, the most obvious argument is that poetry is used quite frequently in a 12 year old's real world; what does he think popular music lyrics are (particularly rock and rap)?

Otherwise, I'd argue that poetry is a way of working very precisely with language, as well as gaining an understanding of how rhythm can affect the spoken word (with the latter applied to public speaking).

What do you mean I'm not always right!! Wash your mouth out with gecko poop, and pray the rosary five million fucking times, while watching every Britney Spears video on a continuous loop.

But, I will admit, I was wrong one day last week. I told my Mother that I wasn't her son. Grinzee.

---------------

When I ever get a chance to study the Gramma flick, I will look at every frame like the Zupruder film. Yea, I ripped off Dennis Miller, but the shithead deserves it.

----------------

The state of the union was interesting. Fifty minutes of bald faced lies in color.

Bush says the war is going well: Violence has gone up in Iraq; more protests in the streets.

Economy is growing: Real wages continue to slide, no healthcare; joblessness stays the same or worse. Most giving up on looking for work. The market going up has nothing to do with the real economy, ya brownshirt peckerface.

Tax cuts should be permanent: Guess who's go up? The rest of us.

Ban gay marriage: Concentration camps are coming next. Pink triangles on the walls.

Patriot Act is great: Freedom and civil rights are on hold.

Viva Bush. Maybe he is a nazi.

"Why do we have to study poetry? It has no use in the real world, so you're just torturing us with it."

Because I'm arrogant, I wrote some shit up about poetry in the real world and it sounded pompous and...um...arrogant. And it really doesn't matter. The kid's 12 and other than telling him to shut the fuck up and he'll study what you tell him to study, I don't think there's any reason you could give the kid that would make sense to him. You could tell him that poetry, more than prose, develops the ability to see subtext and one could argue that it helps in separating the charlatans from the bona fides.

But, that's lame. 'Cause what it really comes down to is imagination. And to explain how imagination makes us better human beings would be lost to a 12-year old. Maybe you could show him poetry that would engage him as opposed to most of the "classics" in the textbooks. Take a look in a bookstore and see if there's anything that would be suitable for kids that doesn't talk down to them. But telling someone why poetry or fiction or movies would make them better able to navigate through the "real world" won't work. It has nothing to do with the "real world" and everything to do with truth and the human condition and the lessons learned. A better person. That's all I can come up with. And sometimes, to steal from Ellison, one hears the music or not. And explaining how the music is good for you to a deaf person is impossible.

If that doesn't work, you can still tell 'im to shut the fuck up and pay attention 'cause you're the teacher and he's not.

If only things were still a dime...
My friend Mike Rhode just sent me the heads up on this;

Ellison, Harlan. 2003.
Comic of the absurd [George Carlson].
Comic Book Marketplace (108; December): 28-31

I don't know if this is on the newstands now or is forthcoming but if you just want that article and not the whole Lupoff package, well there you go. I'm sorry, the Lupoff "package" is ALL IN COLOR FOR A DIME, which had a HC and paperback edition in the 1970's and has had at least one trade paper edition more recently. The article itself is about Jingle Jangle Comics and the career of George Carlson. It's nifty.

Susan, if you see this and it's not too late, please invoice me for one of those copies of Eidolon #8.

Let me know if I should call about the foreign stuff or if that's all gone. I'm interested in forking money over next month for #77, 79, 84, 86, 91 and also the #106 2 for $20 deal if there are any LA Free Press issues left. Crimminy, that's $166 without the Eidelon. I'm kind of hoping some of it IS gone.

And yes, I am perfectly aware that the sale was last week and all I can say is tell it to my car insurance and Sam's Club creditors. And Aunt May needs her medicine and...

hugs - Barney

Various and Sundry
First things first--SUSAN, am I supposed to be waiting for an invoice on the Great Purge sale? I haven't gotten one, and I gather others here are sending in their greenbacks. Please advise.

TONY, good to see you here, my old droogie. (I'm allowed to say that. When I was little, I was Little Alex.)

All those who enquired--Chemo didn't work, so now I'm going onto radiation. Not worse, however. Just not better. No panicking until I give permission.

So how about those Nicks, eh?

What would you guys say to a kid who asked you, "Why do we have to study poetry? It has no use in the real world, so you're just torturing us with it." This was said to me by a student of mind on the day that I announced we were going to start the poetry unit. I like to think he has since changed his mind a little, but I found the question to be a bit of a poser for me. I personally find poetry enjoyable on a strictly aesthetic basis, and to me a clever turn of phrase or particularly incisive use of figurative language fascinating in itself, but I don't think that's a good enough answer for a 12 year old.

Any takers on this one?

Thanks,
PAB

Tony Isabella
I went into Dreamhaven Books lasterday night and there sat a book by Tony Isabella and Bob Ingersoll.

A very peculiar book: "The Case of the Colonist's Corpse: A Sam Cogley Mystery" a STAR TREK NOVEL, FER CRYIN' OUT LOUD

most interesting...

ALSO: I have an industry question, this particular book has colored pages; i mean with the book closed, the top, bottom and ends are colored red. For many years Dell Books were turquoise along the top. Remember that paperback copy of "Deliverance"? "The New Centurions"? So the question: What is the techinical name for this process? Anyone?

I can only imagine how much longer a print run takes with this process included. I kinda like it. It looks cool.

And, Tony, I think I may buy my first Star Trek novel since "Spock Must Die!", by simple virtue of you sounding like a stand up kinda guy.

Presumptuously,

Rick

Somewhat tangential to the remake discussion, I was watching _They Might Be Giants_ on the weekend and thought about halfway through that there was a much better movie locked inside of it -- and it was fairly diverting in the first place. That said, I'd imagine any reimagining of that movie would involve a)closure, b)CGI effects and c)a musical montage possibly featuring the trying-on of funny hats set to an old Motown standard. So maybe it's best to stick with the original.

And yes, I do like to viddy the old films now and then, Jon

Oops! I missed Chuck's welcome. Thanks, Chuck.

To cut down on multiple posts, I hereby offer a blanket "thanks for the welcome" and "I'm glad to be here among other admirers and friends of Harlan" to one and all.

Neal: I wish I could take credit for the Haunt of Horror digest, but I was just an editorial assistant doing some production work on it. It was Gerry Conway's baby. I just changed a diaper here and there.

I know about pivotal moments, though. When I first moved to New York, the two books I took with me were the Dangerous Visions anthologies. Unca Harlan's intros to the stories kept me aware than writing was a noble profession so matter how many hardships came with its pursuit.

Guy: Good to see you here, too. I've sent you an e-mail.

Remakes continued
On the other side of the coin is Peter Jackson, who having put himself in the billion-dollar club by establishing his creds at both critical darlings (HEAVENLY CREATURES) and box-office juggernauts (guess what?), could get the go-ahead for any project he wanted, and has selected, of all things, KING KONG.

Asked why King Kong, he said, "because it's just one movie."

But asked, further, why that particular project, he said, he said something to the effect of, "Because today's kids won't watch the original. And yes, I agree that sucks."

I respect both answers.

Gramma
Just read that a DVD of the TWILIGHT ZONE will be coming out in July including "Gramma".

Bill

E-mailed a few words of reassurance to Neal, so that’s history…

And speaking of history, Adam-Troy’s quotes were true jaw-droppers. Charlie Sheen, Maria Conchita Alonso, and Anne Heche…

"We’re going to do it right".

Jeezus, what dumb fucks.

You have to have your heart in the business and the business in your heart. The willingness to reveal that kind of coarse detachment from history – to admit you know that little about your own industry - tends to accompany an absence of passion, an arrogance, more, outright obtuseness. Even if they were fulla shit, to downplay the power of the originals in a lame strategy to promote their bold remake, integrity is clearly of no interest to them. But this is, after all, generally the kind of mentality behind remakes of great films. (not ALWAYS, of course; but mostly)

Hey! Charlie! I’m talkin’ t’ya! I used to like ya…I remain a huge fan o’yer dad’s…but you n’ the rest have a corkscrew fer a brain. We ever cross paths stay on YOUR side of the street…and ya MIGHT not get HOIT!

UPDATE ON KELLY FREAS’S OPERATION
Here's the latest on Kelly...

cmb



From: Jacqui Freas Baric

...He had the operation and the surgeon said "He is one very lucky son of a gun!" It was just a stricture which they clipped and the doctor removed his appendix while they were at it. He's recovering well and should be his sunny self in a week or two.

Howdy Neal!

It's great to have you in the Pavilion. Much fun will ensue. You'll see.

Steve Dooner

Tony!
Damn, it's good to see Tony Isabella's name again! We knew each other during my year in the comics bizness and for a good -- and it was good -- decade or so I spent in K-a. Tony, if you read this, pop me an e-mail and I'll send you some of the stuff I've been writing. Or you (and anyone) can check out my genzine at www.challzine.com, if that doesn't seem like advertising, which is bad form. Hey, Dwight Decker's in touch, so you be too!

Harlan, your welcome really warmed this cold evening. Thanks, great friend. Rosy -- the daughter of Joe Green -- says hi.

Someone asked me how Harlan changed my life. Well, that's a classic story I'm going to tell in the aforementioned genzine soon. It'll probably piss off Ted White all over again, but hey, Quinn Yarbro and I have based a friendship on it that's lasted 35 years.

I must say that contributing to this site is a lot easier on the nerves than listening to the alcoholic sock puppet who stole the American presidency sell the Iraq War to his stooges in the Congress. Bless you all for the distraction.

Thomas Pynchon to appear on "The Simpsons"
You think I'm making this up? http://www.boston.com/news/globe/ideas/articles/2003/10/19/pynchon_and_homer/

I'd also like to add warm greetings for Tony Isabella. My, but this group gets more illustrious all the time.

Chuck

***I meant to add--it was ok for people to jump on Ben when they didn't realise who he was, but once they realised it, it was not ok. How come??

***But you DO need thick skin to play here! Read the archives and you will see what I mean! I don't think saying that is an insult. My Q would by why a regular needs an apology for saying what they feel, but a lurker doesn't?

AN APOLOGY FOR BEN
I've been ruminating on this too long.

Should have apologized to Ben a long time ago for telling him he needed thick skin to play in here. Hell, I 'm just a newbie/lurker type non-entity, and don't need to be tossing in barbs like that one from the sideline. I'm a slouch.

So if you're lurking, Ben, please accept my belated (but heart-felt) apology? What say?



Your pardon,

Rick

Cindy,

If you go back to either Friday or Thursday, I have a post about the possibility of The New Twilight Zone coming out on DVD this year. A good source for such things, BTW, is tvshowsondvd.com, which focuses on, well, TV shows on DVD.

And "Gamma" scared the crap out of me as a kid. I would have been, I think, 12 when that aired (1985?)

Regards,
Joseph

TEXAS
Thanks Frankie,
I needed that!
;)
Seriously-- give me the name of a book that teaches proper punctuation and I'll be yer pal for life ( like I'm not already)! Broadcasting news has made me lazy and those things that I slept through in high school have come back to haunt me.

Give me tools so I don't embarrass myself further, please.

:)
Cindy


Harlan,
I would give just about anything to see your Twilight Zone adaptation/directorial debut of Stephen King's story. It surprises me not one whit that it was fuckin' great. WHEN oh WHEN will they release the newer Twilight Zone series on DVD. In addition to your work there is another episode that I saw only once but have never forgotten. It was the one with the tall, long faced guy from SOAP-- Richard, something-- I think-- but don't quote me. If memory serves he was a drunk and he lost his job on Christmas eve-- I believe he was a store Santa. Something about a poor neighborhood and a trash bag that had everything every poverty stricken individual in that slum wanted or needed for Christmas. That one too-- I'd love to see those two episodes.

I saw Shatterday on Susan's list-- I had one of those years ago. You inscribed it to me at a little book store in Boulder. Somebody stole it along with my prized copy of Godbody that Ed sent me for my birthday in 85 or 86 I think. 65 bones-- damn, I wish I had a trash sack from the twilight zone.

:)
yer pal,
Cindy



Hey!
Y'all are a bunch of culinary geniuses. Anybody know how to cook venison besides frying it?

It's getting redundant.

Cindy


Dorman!!
Thank you for the information on Slippage.

I've really missed you.

:)
Cindy

NICE TO BE HERE
ROB--yikes! I wasn't slamming you. And I don't have much left to chomp, married twice, divorced twice. Besides, I'm used to being gnawed on. Four kids... Harlan once signed a note to you that said..."Not smiling." hahahahaha

I like Frank because he may not always be right, but he understands the importance of being..well..frank.

FRANK--it's the hippocampus you're stroking, just so you know

TONY ISABELLA--there may have been times in your career when you wondered if the work was worth it. Just so you know: "Haunt of Horror" was pivotal for me, it was the first pulp digest I ever owned/read and it paved the way out of a world of abuse and into worlds of enjoyment for me. It was a sort of rescue on your part. So thanks.

And, thanks for the welcome everyone.

And I like Cindy the best because she once compared someone to a "doggy nini gnat" which may be the single funniest thing I've read this year.

I was thinking someone should remake "Who'll Stop the Rain?" and call it "Dog Soldiers".

Humbly,

Neal

Did Rick just diss me? He, he.

I get prickly sensations all the time--but that's because I have a skin rash--from you all.

-----------------

Cindy, commas are your friend. Just fuckin with ya.

--------------

So, here's the drill: an American war plane bombs a village home in Afghanistan, killing 11 people. Four of those dead are children, and three are woman. America will not say they are at fault. In fact, they will say they thought bad guys were in the house. A mistake, Bush will utter, his doe in the headlight grin making the assembled throng wince. And they say, America never goes after civilians.

Of Cource, that is not terrorism. It is only called that when the other side does it. Twisted logic.

Thanks, Steve.
Thanks for the nice words on my work, Steve. Working with Unca Harlan on that Dream Corridor story was one of the highlights of my career. HE's a perceptive and supportive editor, one of the best I ever worked with.

Frank,

"Why aren't we more outraged at Michael Jackson's antics?"

Two reasons:

One, we've seen it all before from this guy, and now people are just saying, "Great. What's he done THIS time?"

Two, I think people are bracing themselves for the endless coverage as the press gnaws on this story long after it ceased to be interesting, just so they can squeeeeze every bit they can out of it. After all, the little creep is a celebrity, and that means he should be covered every fargin minute of every fargin day.


And Hello to Neal Johnson and Guy Lillian. Stick around, there's always something interesting going on around here.

I'd also like to express my condolences to Ed Bryant for the loss of his father.

Chuck

TONY ISABELLA: It's great to hear from you, Mr. Isabella. I read your work at Marvel all the way back in the seventies, and I still have a strong recollection of the "What If" issue you wrote about Gwen Stacy not dying. I also liked very much your work for Dream Corridor. Thanks for all you've done.

RICK WYATT: "Everyone comes to Rick's" (apparently)! The Pavilion is such a jumpin' place. I love Sam and the band and Sasha the bartender. I'm just wondering if Harlan wears a white tux jacket while here?

CONRAD VEIDT: You were great as Major Strasse.

HARLAN: My compliments on the Futrelle introduction. I live in the Boston area, and I am now intrigued to see if I can find any old editorials of Futrelle's in The Boston American archives.

Thanks to all of you,

Steve Dooner

ADAM - TROY CASTRO -- PHONE HOME

ADAM: Tried to call you. *8*2 "cannot accept incoming calls."

Need to speak to you posthaste. Apparently the yapping doggies of SFFWA have their leashes in a twist over my having sent e.mail copies of the story to the membership. Gawd knows why.

I need some electronic help from you.

Either call me at my home phone, or fax me a working number for you, and I'll call. ASAP. Thanks, kiddo.

Harlan

Why Neal, Hello!
:)
Nooo, actually I hadn't forked over the goods yet but I'm fixin' to. The church got wind that the powers that be in the upper Lutheran echelon has mandated that each congregation ponder the issue of sexuality. In fact the church has spent a couple of hundred grand studying the matter of homosexuality and now they want EVERY church in the ELCA to do the same. I grew up Missouri Synod Lutheran which means we don't even have sex to procreate (never mind how I got six kids under such circumstances) so all of this scrutiny and attention to detail is foreign. Our poor pastor is caught between Gibralter and Rushmore. On the one hand he works for the Evangelical Lutheran Church and on the other hand he is here, living face to face with folks in the middle of rural Texas.

In any case I figured the man could use the book after he's forded this raging river. He'll need some laughs. He's having to tread very carefully. He's the one who said Jesus never said anything about homosexuals but he said a WHOLE lot about hypocrites.

He's a good guy-- I hope this blows on through gently because if they crowd him he's liable to tell them how the cow ate the cabbage.

It's very nice to read you Neal. I imagine the fundamentalist preacher thought you'd been playing with a ouija board or you wouldn't have been reading that type of material.

Am I right?

Can you say Amen?
:)
Cindy

Dragon*Con
Dragon*Con is a hoot and I try never to miss it. There's a lot of stuff that isn't really SF that goes on, but they have good writer guests. I'll never forget year before last when Harlan was a guest. (Harlan: I was the one who told you Paul T. Riddell says hello). If you can make it, do so.

Hell hath no fury like that of a psychosis scorned
Some people are ticklish all over, some just on their sides or feet. I know a guy who is only ticklish on the neck just under the chin.

So who can say what might tickle a brain? Maybe Rob's musings are the sort that tickle Wernicke's area. And maybe Neal is only ticklish in his hypothalamus, where Frank's posts poke with JUST the right pressure.

I guess what I'm getting at is no matter how smarter than Frank one thinks one might be, there's no reason to question a man over the manner in which he is ticklish. And by the way, interesting mistake (or perhaps schadenfreudian slip) made in quoting the list in the first place.

-- Rick

Dear Peg--will let you know when your stuff arrives.

Dear Lee--your HERC membership arrived today. Stuff will go out tomorrow. And, to answer your question...

Items still available from the book purge.

DEMON WITH A GLASS HAND graphic novel. DC Comics, 1986. $25.00
(9 copies available)

NIGHT AND THE ENEMY. Comico, 1987. Hardcover graphic novel. Plastic cover variation. (1 copy) $50.00.

I HAVE NO MOUTH & MUST SCREAM. Paperback, Pyramid, 2nd printing, 1972. $30.00. (7)

OVER THE EDGE. Paperback, Belmont, May 1970. FIRST EDITION. $45.00 (8)

THE TWILIGHT ZONE #1. Comic Book. Newsstand cover. $10.00. (10 copies)

APPROACHING OBLIVION. Millington, 1976. British Hardcover. $65.00 (2)

SHATTERDAY. Hutchinson, 1982. British Hardcover. $65.00 (2)

EIDOLON #8. Anthology. Australian trade paperback. 1992. Contains. "Where I Shall Dwell in the Next World." $20.00 (3)

I, ROBOT. Easton Press Collector's Edition, 1994. Hardcover/Leather. Signed and Numbered. $130.00 (1)

ANGRY CANDY. Easton Press. $130.00. (2)

SLIPPAGE. Mark V. Zeising, 1997. FIRST EDITION, BOXED, NUMBERED "A/C" COPIES. $125.00. (1)

DANGEROUS VISIONS. Doubleday, 1967. FIRST EDITION. Hardcover. In fine condition. Usual discoloration of gutters and pastedowns. Cover bright and glossy. $400.00. (1)

DANGEROUS VISIONS--Sphere, 3-set edition $20.00. (1)

SHATTERDAY. Paperback. Berkley, 1982. Paperback. $15.00. (7)

That's about it. If you want anything, just let me know and I'll reserve the books. Shipping is $3.00. Send checks to: THE KILIMANJARO CORPORATION, POST OFFICE BOX 55548, SHERMAN OAKS, CA 91413, USA.

All best--Susan

Remakes
Been a few days since I was here, and encountered out there in the real world a reference to something discussed here: ie. the remake of THE MANCHURIAN CANDIDATE.

Y'know, folks...it ain't so much that these folks mess with perfection...it's that they trumpet their total ignorance of the stuff they're messing with.

I have seen this before. Charlie Sheen, saying of Richard Lester's definitive THREE MUSKETEERS: "I never saw it, but we're going to do it right." Maria Conchita Alonso on the difference between the original HIGH NOON and her own TV remake: "The old one was boring. We're going to do it right." Anne Heche on her remake of PSYCHO: "Was the first one any good?"

Well, here's the not-untalented John Demme on his Gulf War MANCHURIAN CANDIDATE:

"I think I vaguely remember (the old one) was all cold war political. Ours is more a psychological thriller. I barely remember the old one, to tell the truth."

I mean, Gaaaah.

Well, Neal J. didn't have to wait around too long before Rob took a bite out of his balls, eh Frank?

All the same, welcome Neal.

Mark

Somewhere Over The Rainbow

Neal Johnson:

"Frank and Barry and Steve D. make my brain tickle. Plus there are a select few interesting psychoses floating around here."

...so let me understand this: you put the likes of Frank in your slice of the elite...your idea of the haut monde - while tossing ME, I presume, in the low-cal Gumbo soup of smart-ass psychos. I used to think I had a little more than THAT to offer! I thought my li'l meanderings had something to say underneath it all. Somethin' substantive. But apprently I'm nothin' but a little psycho runnin' naked in the Northern Woods! Whereas FRANK makes it into the League of Extraordinary Gentlemen!

I dunno, Neal, you threw my gyros. There is something definitely wrong here. The world suddenly seems upside down. A drop in the Twilight Zone. I feel some need to re-evaluate myself and take measure.

Am I truly nothin' but a babbling psycho? I dunno...it MIGHT explain why I have dreams about Clint Eastwood being gay and God being a giant toy manufacturer and plaster jesters dancing with goldfish across glittering poppi fields. Yeah, I better take a careful look at this. You really got me scared, man.

Otto, move over!

***Eric Martin: I just want to say I am glad to see you back. Stay.

Internet Law Casebook
Susan or Harlan,

I realize this is unsolicited, but I mailed you the newest casebook I could find on Internet and Computer Law.

I hope it is of some small use to you in your legal battle(s. I also hope this is not a no-no. I realize you get all kinds of "stuff". Hopefully, this package falls outside of that category.

I only ask that you please let me know when it arrives, and only then if it is convenient for you.

The return address on the package reads "Thomson West".

Regards,

Rick

CINDY FROM TEXAS
Did you ever lend your copy of "Love Ain't Nothing But Sex Misspelled" to your pastor?

I once recieved the Edgeworks version of that and "Beast", as a Valentine's day present. That proved to be symbolic.

I enjoy reading your posts.

I remember very well juggling kids and whatever Ellison I was reading at the time. My fundamentalist minister wasn't quite so understanding about my reading choices. Imagine his chagrin when he spotted John Varley's "Demon" in my paws.

Humbly,

Neal

Oh Harlan,
Please tell Ed I am so sorry about his Dad. He must have been a sweetheart of a guy to have raised a son like Ed. This is so sad! After all Ed's dealt with recently in the health arena to lose his father...

life ain't fair.
Cindy

Brian, shhhh, we do not mention that T movie here...Harlan might napalm our ovalteen.

----------

I like this Thompson dude. He knows true wisdom when he sees it. Welcome to the scrum. Just watch your nuts, when Rob pipes in. He is cute, but vicious.

--------------

Wow, here is something I thought I would never see. Jane's Terrorism & Security Monitor has this on their front page:

"The USA is grappling with a worsening security crisis in Iraq, but its intelligence seems to be so woefully inadequate that it does not appear to have any clear idea of exactly what it is up against. President George W Bush and senior officials of his administration have characterised those behind this stubborn and escalating insurgency against US-led occupation forces as terrorists. The reality is much more complex, embracing a broad spectrum of political, religious and ideological forces, which, if they ever come together on a nationwide scale, could leave the USA little choice but to withdraw from Iraq."

No way you can say they are leftists.

Harlan and the Haunt of Horror
I was a fairly new assistant editor at Marvel Comics when the company published its two issues of The Haunt of Horror digest magazine. We screwed up Harlan's story so badly that we had to run it again in the next issue. Ah, memories.

Dragoncon
The web address for Dragoncon is www.dragoncon.org

Please pass along my condolences to Ed Bryant, a very good writer and a real cool fellow.

Guy: How did Harlan change your life?

Thanks for the info about Dragon Con Harlan. I'm looking forward, as always, to seeing you and the lovely Susan there. For those interested, Dragon Con is in downtown Atlanta on September 3rd thru the 6th. Roger

>Okay, Dragoncon. When and where is it?<

www.dragoncon.com

As I type this, I have AMC's broadcast of _The Terminator_ on. They have this "DVD-TV" thing where they run tidbits of information at the bottom of the screen as we watch. And during the scenes in the police station, they mention a few other SF shows and movies which had elements used in the film, like _Westworld_ and _Demon Seed_. And yes, they did mention the "Soldier" episode of _The Outer Limits_, before briefly describing Harlan's lawsuit.

To Neal Johnson: Welcome aboard. And if you get flamed or attacked or criticized, don't let it bother ya. We've all been there.

Okay, Dragoncon. When and where is it? I just might be able to attend.

Greetings from the high desert southwest
I want to introduce myself. Seems only proper after reading most of the Art Deco Pavilion archival matter. (I think that should be a prerequisite to posting.)

Who I am:

A long-time Harlan Ellison fan. Ever since my best friend (in the sixth grade) gave me a copy of a magazine that was titled (I think) "Haunt of Horror" that contained a story by HE titled "Neon". I wonder how much that mag is worth today? Ever since that same friend pointed out that "The City on the Edge of Forever" was Harlan's idea, I have been an admirer. Harlan's work has never let me down, never a dull moment. Ever. Are you kidding?


Why I am here:

Because this Harlan's forum and it is (not surprisingly) an intelligent one, and I don't think I'm really there (intelligent) yet. Not quite. Paying attention to Harlan has only made me smarter, and also because it looks like he attracts intelligent people. Not to butt smooch (much), but the likes of Rick and Frank and Barry and Steve D. make my brain tickle. Plus there are a select few interesting psychoses floating around here. This "pavilion" is a nice smart/smartass gumbo. If you don't mind me saying.

It's really nice to find this place. Now I will try to keep up.

Humbly stepping aside,

Neal

Damn! Make that too -- sheesh.

A Must-Read Article
ALL: While I was, admittedly, attraced to the cover, an article in the Febraury issue of "Vanity Fair" -- "John Ashcroft's Patriot Games" by Judy Bachrach --is must-read material for ANYONE in America. It is an excellent piece and I can't recommend it to highly. (And if THIS doesn't get you to rethink your vote for "Dubya," Cindy, nothing will).
--DTS

Dragon Con
Holy spit... Harlan will be in my time zone. Assuming I'll be employed again, I should be able to visit some family and friends and, perhaps, muster the nerve to introduce myself.

Guy Lillian, your name sounds like a Tennesee Williams charactor. Welcome.

Monster made my top ten just for the Theron performance. Ebert has it as his top film of 2003. But, I do say that you are short changing Mystic River. At least, Tim Robbins should win a golden Adonis.

-------------

The latest military game from Tom Clancy is being sold to the military, to train new recruits how to kill. True story. The scummy Clancy is now part of the big lie. No surprise.

----------------\

Whoopieeee, Al Franken is back at number one, and Michael Moore is back at number two. Who in the fuck is buying all those books? And why don't they vote?

------------------

Little rants:

Who gives a fuck about Britney Spears getting married!!

Why aren't we more outraged at Michael Jackson's antics?

Black America needs to stop defending RKelly.

No, 50 Cent is not a genius. The shithead cannot even rap.

No, Andre 5000 didn't go soft--he is the genius.

Ten year anniversary of Frank Zappa's death. Sleep Dirt over his precious soul.

tWO SMALL REPLIES:

1. Would one of you who has access to Kelly Freas's website please pass on to him my best wishes for a speedy recovery.

2. Guy Lillian is a long-time friend, and I welcome him to the neighborhood. Good to hear from you again, old chum.

Oh ... yeah ... reluctantly ... a third notification.

Ed Bryant's father died.

All told, not a terrific day.

Yr. pal, Harlan

DRAGON CON 2004

ROGER:

Susan and I will be there for the full gig.

Harlan

THANK YOU ALL
I've only posted one time here, some months ago, but I come back here constantly for the entertainment factor. I'm impressed that people with such common interests can be so diverse, and yet discuss their differences with such maturity, candor, camaraderie, and humor. Even the spats get resolved quickly.

TO SUSAN: I think you answered the phone when I called in my order during HERC Rush Week. I wanted to let you know that my check went out on Tuesday the 13th. If you didn’t get it, please let me know.

Everybody, have a FANTASTIC DAY! It’s raining here, but I’m going over to a friend’s condo to replace the pop-up drain in her bathroom sink, because she just moved in and she thinks the one in there right now is “grody.” Grody does not appear in the on-line Merriam-Webster Dictionary, but we all know what it means.

Dear Harlan,

Thank you for your kind reply. I will pass along what you said to my friend, who I know will be grateful for your answer.

Steve Dooner

MONSTER
Crimeny, fandom eats time! I'm up at 5AM trolling for contributors to the next worldcon's program book -- which Rosy and I have been asked to edit -- polling Australians for opinions and candidates for the next Down Under Fan Fund, which we won last year (Australia was the king of hoots) -- trying to finance my own genzine, Challenger -- finish an apazine -- I should have given this nonsense up for the almighty dolla' 25 years ago! Ellison and Schwartz and Quinn Yarbro kept me in this hobby; it's their fault for being so great to me when I was young.

We recently saw Monster, the new film about Aileen Wuornos. I know the Oscars are a scam, political, ultimately trivial; I know that the movie is getting attention not because of the quality of the acting but because the lead transformed herself from a superbabe to street debris with such elan. But let me tell you, if Charlize Theron doesn't take home a golden boy from the Oscars, AL Qaeda has won. I've represented hundreds of pathetic, deluded, paranoid, sociopathic criminals in my life, and she effin' *nailed* it. The only performance I've seen this year to equal hers was Bill Murray's in Lost in Translation, and I hope he's up there too.

(If anyone cares, I also call the Oscars for Lord of the Rings, Jackson as director, and Baldwin and Zellwegger [sic] in the supporting categories, not that you should give a rat's patootie, but I do, and I met Harlan in 1967 and he changed my life, so I get to talk sometimes, and so there.)

Aside from complete depression on the political world, where evil in W form seems destined to triumph again, distorting our country into petty barbarism for the rest of our lives, that's enough for me this cold morning in New Orleans.

http://www.kellyfreas.com/

Check it out if you need to self-educate!

Susan Ellison
This is to let you know I posted the check for my copy of "Beast" on Thursday morning.

Shivering at 1 mere degree above zero in the cold white north,

Rick

Kelly Freas isn't the only illustrator laid up; Dave Cockrum, who created the visuals for many of the "New X-Men" such as Storm, Nightcrawler, et cetera, is also in the hospital; apparently, he was on a respirator for pneumonia for two weeks.

The good news is that he's just come off the respirator and is being moved out of the ICU. Harlan's buddy Cliff Meth, who has worked several times with Cockrum, is working on doing up a tribute book to pay Dave's expenses.

There recently was a post about Harlan being at Dragon Con this September. Harlan, will you be part of all 4 days of the convention, or just part of the later days? It is a long trip down from Iowa, and want to make sure how much time to ask off to get back and forth. I just finished all three of Peter David's Sir Apropos of Nothing books. Enjoyed the first two greatly and most of the third, but the ending of the third just left me disturbed. Considering how much violence is in the first two also, I'm not quite sure why I was so disturbed at the way the third ended. Bye for now. Roger Gjovig

This Just In...Kelly Freas Hospitalized
Hello Webslingers,

How come I always seem to be the bearer of bad news around here...could someone else pulleeeze pick up the slack out there?

In any event; our good friend Kelly Freas was in the hospital earlier this week...send your greetings and well wishes to the email address provided...

cmb



From: Jacqui Freas Baric

Dad is in the Hospital

Hi, Timmy

Prayers and good thoughts would be helpful. My father, Kelly Freas, will be operated on this morning [Tuesday, January 13, 2004] for a bowel blockage. At his age this is not without risks so all the good thoughts would be nice.

Jacqui

STEVE DOONER:

Apart from the fairly well-known "Performance Tape" of Lenny in his last days -- of which I have a copy on 3/4" U-Matic -- I can't be of any help to your friend. In those days, most people were still working with wire recorders, and home movie cameras were bulky and would've been interdicted by the club owner, if not Lenny and/or his manager. It's not improbable, however, to think that such films or recordings DO exist, in someone's private stash, because Lenny was a movie nut, loved taking home movies (and having them taken of him), loved dressing up in costume and romping through brief scenarios (I remember one wonderful Rudolph Valentino pastiche), and in general partaking of the visual milieu.

But, I fear, for specifics ... I'm a dead end.

Yr. pal, Harlan

Bradbury
There is a short essay by Ray Bradbury in the latest issue of Playboy about our need to explore Mars and the Universe. It's a wonderful piece. Truly.

-TODD

Lee, pipe in when you can. I like the hell out of you. This from the person who doesn't even like hisself.

------------

Deb, just be glad Harlan didn't call you Pete. Funnin ya.

--------------

I'm sure directing isn't that hard. If you have a love for movies, and a keen eye, it can't be that hard. Just have a good crew, and lots of headache pills and booze.

Well, my dream of becoming an honest to God Webderland regular has been dashed for the short term. The technical group at the plant I’ve been commuting to is one person short and I have been given the honor of taking on the position until a replacement can be trained. Should take about five months, which limits my Webderlandings to Saturdays for quite some time. I can already feel the little bugs crawling over my skin as withdrawal sets in.

I asked about internet access for the little servant’s house I’ll be living in, but that is not going to happen. The place is for the most part a technological zero, but I’m betting it’s ahead of Harlan’s house in at least one respect: it has a motorized toilet. Only the French could design a violently motorized toilet that jams up if you drop so much as a matchstick into it.

Frank :

You nailed the French esprit right to the outhouse wall when you described their film as ‘bizzare and wonderfully skewed’ – that actually describes their entire culture to the very core. Below is a link to a bizzare and wonderfully skewed French traffic signal. I think it translates ‘one of the available left turns will not get you killed.’ I went back and took the photo after one of the several available left turns nearly got me killed.

http://www.imagestation.com/album/?id=4287982043&idx=1

The ‘BAM’ sign in the background provides traffic accident sound effects for the hearing impaired.

A first aid station has been thoughtfully located just to the left.

Lenny Bruce Question
Dear Harlan,

I know a guy--a great teacher--who has long held that Lenny Bruce's books and records pretty much saved his life. He has all the original records, live and studio, but he's always wondered if there's more Lenny out there. He didn't want to impose on your time, so he asked me to ask you if you knew of any more of Lenny's performances that had been preserved on tape. I suppose he's hoping that the family might release more of Lenny's work some day. So, did you happen to observe any reel to reel's whirring away back then or was there fear that preserving audio records of performances might be legally inconvenient?

Steve Dooner

Susan: Ellison Book Purge and HERC Membership Renewal
Susan,

Both checks are off in the post today to the HERC address, along with various mailing instructions. Please drop a short note here to let me know when they've arrived; this is my first test of the company's outgoing mail system, and I am not sure just how long it will take.

Cheers
Peg

CINDY: pick up a copy of "Slippage" in tradepaperback and read the essay that runs before Harlan's teleplay, "Nackles" -- it'll answer your question about Harlan and directing.
--DTS

Cindy, dahlin':

Myself DID direct. Once. Co-directed (with Brad May) the 1985 CBS-TV episode of The New Twilight Zone that I adapted from Stephen King's short story, "Gramma."

Bradford was our assistant director on the show, and he wanted to get into the Directors Guild, so we gave him his break when Billy Friedkin had to withdraw as director of the episode, the weekend before our Monday morning commencement. Bill had a very serious family emergency, and so I took over, never having been behind a camera in my life. We even had a giant LumaCrane that it took years to master. But Brad and I swallowed hard, and did the job. It turned out (how shall I put this) only fuckin' GRRRREAT!

I would have directed again, on my script for "Nackles," but CBS
chickened -- as you know from my essay accompanying the complete published teleplay -- and I exited the series, the morning of my first day on the set. And that was the name of THAT game.

Yr. pal, Harlan

I got as far as the jammed cloven hoof before falling off my chair. God DAMN, but THAT was priceless! FANTASTICALLY funny.

You never disappoint.

:)
yer pal,
Cindy



RICK, RICK, RICK,
THANK YOU SO VERY MUCH for all you do.

:)
Cindy


OKAY,

Now here is something I was wondering about this week. Has Harlan ever considered directing? The amazing details in his scripts leave no doubt that his films would be superlative.

Cindy

Jesus Chirst, it's fucking freezing up here.

Thanks for getting the Webderland back up, Rick. I hadn't realized I had an Ellison-jones until the other day.

Mark

As Clevon Little said so gallantly in BLAZING SADDLES:

"Excuse me while ah whip this out."

It took a few days, Rick, but you impressed me nonetheless. Thank you.

...and David:

Thank you for talking about that film. I'm going to watch around for it.

ANOTHER RECORRD ALERT
Harlan:

Just read over at Billboard's website that Yo-Yo Ma has released a live version of his album "Obligado Brazil" featuring tracks that were not included in the original studio album. The entire crew (Paquito, Cyro Baptista, the Assad brothers) from the studio album join him in the live one. Billboard's reviewer, Leila Cobo, gushes over it and with good reason.

Got to get me to a record store this weekend.

Alejandro

Rick,

I knew you'd get the site back up and running. Many kudos in your general direction.

And, anything worth saying once is worth saying nine or more times.

Chuck

BRIAN: I have GLIMPSES; LOVED it. One of my favorite books.
(And true to my inherent geekery, I bought the new Jimi Hendrix action figure, too.)

RICK: Thankya, thankya, thankya. You, sir, are a fine human being and a good man.

RICK KEENEY: I have Sweet Tea and like it a lot. It's cool to hear a flashy, pyrotechnic guy like Buddy going slow and painful on some of those Junior Kimbrough songs. (And how cool would it have been if Johnny Cash had recorded "I'm an Old Man" before his passing?)
Interestingly, many of the blues purists I know hate the album. I think they see it as Guy's putting on airs. I don't see it, though.

Okay, just ran across some interesting DVD news. Apparently there is a strong posibility that the New Twilight Zone will be coming to DVD this year. Check it out at http://www.tvshowsondvd.com/ (go to the Jan 15th news), where they note that the company supposedly responsible, Image Entertainment, had not yet responded to their request for more info. Stay tuned, I guess.

WEBMASTER RICK:

I too would like to add my voice to the chorus of thank-you-kindly.
Your hard work and dedication to this glorious web oasis is very much appreciated. This place has become like oxygen to me.

hail and welcome back

Glad to see our traveling road show is back online! Susan, I put your check in the mail Wednesday morning. Took an extra day because I spent two hours Tuesday night writing last-minute letters to 8 Iowa residents, urging them to turn out Monday for the caucuses and support Howard Dean.

Saw a TERRIFIC movie last night in the Portland Jewish Film Festival called "Rosenstrasse." It centers on an actual early 1943 incident in which the Aryan spouses (mostly women) of detained Jewish individuals in Berlin stood outside the center for several weeks and basically embarrassed the authorities into releasing nearly everyone. The framing story concerns the modern-day daughter of a woman who was 8 at the time, looking for her detained mother, and taken in by an Aryan woman who was waiting for her Jewish musician husband; the daughter (engaged to marry a Hispanic male of whom her survivor mother strongly disapproves) goes to Berlin to search for that "second mother." Very character-driven, and a surprisingly rich and subtle "Holocaust film."

HALLELUJAH BLUES
Alex Jay Berman--I agree, sir. Also for anyone who missed the "Sweet Tea" cd by Buddy Guy, gogetit.

Rick--Thanks for your hard work on this site.

Good to be back.

Rick

"...I shot a man in RENO, just to watch him die." J.R. Cash

Mannnn, I've been gettin' the shakes without my daily dose of Ellison. Thanks for your hard work, Rick.

Steve Dooner
Pavilion Junkie

Thanks for your good work, Rick. The Usenet is a very poor substitute.

We're back
Site was down a couple days due to domain/DNS issues. Got them all resolved so everyone should be able to get on by tonight or Saturday morning as the DNS changes percolate through the internet. Sorry for the delay, but the domain was showing as still mine through network solutions but whois was showing it as in need of renewal. I trusted whois and renewed it for 5 years and that seems to have done the job.

Harlan said to not bother cleaning up his octuple or nonuple (or whateer) post, and I agree. It's kind of like hitting the rewind button and playing the thing back 8 times.

- Rick

Anaheim's Post? That's the first time I've seen a guy tied to a city charter during a flogging. Someone reserve Harlan a proper hitching post already.

If I'm going to read a post nine times in a row, it might as well be that one. My drool-teeming gob is filled with laughter.

I have no idea what happened, but la dee dah.

he

REPLY TO POST OF ONE JACK RENO, OF ANAHEIM

Sir:

Ad hominem attacks and replies are frowned upon at this site, and so, having read your entry, the most I will proffer is that you are an ignorant horse's ass, and I wish for you only that you gag on the chitinous onychium when next you jam your cloven hoof into your drool-teeming gob.

Sincerely, Harlan Ellison

REPLY TO POST OF ONE JACK RENO, OF ANAHEIM

Sir:

Ad hominem attacks and replies are frowned upon at this site, and so, having read your entry, the most I will proffer is that you are an ignorant horse's ass, and I wish for you only that you gag on the chitinous onychium when next you jam your cloven hoof into your drool-teeming gob.

Sincerely, Harlan Ellison

REPLY TO POST OF ONE JACK RENO, OF ANAHEIM

Sir:

Ad hominem attacks and replies are frowned upon at this site, and so, having read your entry, the most I will proffer is that you are an ignorant horse's ass, and I wish for you only that you gag on the chitinous onychium when next you jam your cloven hoof into your drool-teeming gob.

Sincerely, Harlan Ellison

REPLY TO MR. JACK RENO OF ANAHEIM'S POST

Sir:

Ad hominem attacks and replies are frowned upon at this site, and so, having read your entry, the most I will proffer is that you are an ignorant horse's ass, and I wish for you only that you gag on the chitinous onychium when next you jam your cloven hoof into your drool-teeming gob.

Sincerely, Harlan Ellison

REPLY TO MR. JACK RENO OF ANAHEIM'S POST

Sir:

Ad hominem attacks and replies are frowned upon at this site, and so, having read your entry, the most I will proffer is that you are an ignorant horse's ass, and I wish for you only that you gag on the chitinous onychium when next you jam your cloven hoof into your drool-teeming gob.

Sincerely, Harlan Ellison

REPLY TO MR. JACK RENO OF ANAHEIM'S POST

Sir:

Ad hominem attacks and replies are frowned upon at this site, and so, having read your entry, the most I will proffer is that you are an ignorant horse's ass, and I wish for you only that you gag on the chitinous onychium when next you jam your cloven hoof into your drool-teeming gob.

Sincerely, Harlan Ellison

REPLY TO MR. JACK RENO OF ANAHEIM'S POST

Sir:

Ad hominem attacks and replies are frowned upon at this site, and so, having read your entry, the most I will proffer is that you are an ignorant horse's ass, and I wish for you only that you gag on the chitinous onychium when next you jam your cloven hoof into your drool-teeming gob.

Sincerely, Harlan Ellison

REPLY TO MR. JACK RENO OF ANAHEIM'S POST

Sir:

Ad hominem attacks and replies are frowned upon at this site, and so, having read your entry, the most I will proffer is that you are an ignorant horse's ass, and I wish for you only that you gag on the chitinous onychium when next you jam your cloven hoof into your drool-teeming gob.

Sincerely, Harlan Ellison

Time to haul in and make comments. I mean, I have to keep up my presence here, if only for the sake of what the neighbors might say.

Re Jimi Hendrix. Alex, you'll be happy to know that Lewis Shiner's wonderful novel _Glimpses_ has been republished. Seek this one out, young friend. It is a genuinely wonderful piece on rock music, mortality, the shaping of one's life, and what one can do to take one's own destiny into one's hands.

The story's got a terrific idea. Ray Shackelford, a stereo repairperson enduring the recent death of his father, spends an afternon idly imagining what the unreleased, original, pre-Spector version of the Beatles' "The Long and Winding Road" sounded like. (This was written in the late 1980's.) He conjures up a powerfully detailed vision of the Abbey Road studios in 1969... and finds the song coming from his speakers. And yes, he can record it. He goes into business creating bootlegs of the Great Unrecorded Albums-- the Doors' _Celebration of the Lizard_, the Beach Boys' _Smile_, and Jimi Hendrix's _New Rays of the Rising Sun_. But to create those works, Ray has to put himself into the fantasies more and more. Utterly amazing work.

On my end, I'm working through Dan Simmons' _Fall of Hyperion_. Shoulda been reading this guy years ago. Confound the years I spent having read only _Song of Kali_!

Re Howard Dean. David, I know Dean's no radical. Still, isn't it amazing at how much work the Democrats have gone through to discredit the guy? _Salon_ had a piece about the press coverage of Dean, and how the dwelling on his alleged "temper" isn't even remotely supported by anything resembling facts... and how many such accounts come from unnamed Democratic insiders. And as I may have said before, it'd be nice to have a candidate who isn't from the fucking _South_.

RICK KEENEY: I'm pretty sure that I've pimped Indigenous here before, if not on the other forum. But I'd think they lean more toward Stevie Ray than to Jimi. Not that Stevie Ray doesn't himself owe a lot to Hendrix, but he, like Mato Nanji of Indigenous, drew more on the electric blues stylings of Albert King, Freddie King, Guitar Slim, Buddy Guy, and others rather than deal with psychedelia. Of course, when Jimi was playing straight blues or bluesrock, he was the best on the planet.

STEFAN, HARLAN: The UPS man just brought me my copy of the first VOICE FROM THE EDGE set, and though I haven't yet had a chance to listen, I'm sure it'll be just as captivating as the second set is.

The Shortness of Ellison Cash
I am informed that Ellison is not short in terms of being challenged in height, but short in terms of cash. A shortness that comes from fighting the good fight lo these many years.

But if cash is the question, couldn't publishing the Dangerous Visions book be a better answer than the begging bowl?

Cordwainer Bird
Mr. Ellison,

I love it when you make author recommendations. (Thanks for the Martin Cruz Smith suggestion.) Are there other authors out there, perhaps languishing in relative obscurity, who really make your head explode? Would you please share them with all of us?

And in exchange, I think you might enjoy a rockin' blues band called "Indigenous". Their influences are immediately apparent; Jimi Hendrix and Stevie Ray Vaughan. Also the North Mississippi All-Star tend to tear things up.(sp?)

Humbly,

Rick

ELLISON BOWS HEAD IN CHAGRIN

DEB...O SHEEE-IT...

I swear by all we hold holy, I invoke the spirits of Kersh and John O'Hara, I bend my knee and raise my spatulate fingers in apology ... it HAS to be some kind of idiotic mnemonic glitch in my synaptic subway that makes me keep calling you "Melissa," when I know gahdamm well it's "Deb."

Puh-puh-puh-please (he blubbered, quoting Roger Rabbit), excuse my dimwitted haste and cotton-wool thinking. I will endeavor never to repeat this gaffe.

Yours agonizedly, Harlan

I figured Harlan meant to GET Melissa to get Deb to help him while Deb helps Harlan help Tood when Tood thought he could help Harlan and Melissa can help Scott stay out of all this.

I'm SURE that's what Harlan meant. He may be oppressed (while not negroid he IS a Jew)...but the man's WITH it.

...um...I s'pose I've gone enough.

***I'm not disappointed that Harlan called me Melissa. She's good people. Lotsa worse names to be called. That he thought of me at all is quite nice!

Audiobooks
I am Harlan's audio producer, and he has asked me to address some questions about his "Voice From the Edge" audio collections. First, as to availability, volumes 1 & 2 are still being published by Fantastic Audio, an imprint of Audio Literature. That they are not more readily available has mostly to do with the state of the retail book (and therefore audiobook) business, where book chains will only stock a very few brand new "bestselling" titles, and even those for only short periods of time before they are returned to the publisher. I suggest that anyone looking for these audiobooks contact Lisa Hunt at Audio Literature directly...at Audiolit@aol.com. As for future volumes, I am hoping to compile a new one soon, and your suggestions will all be seriously considered. Thank you all. Let's get that voice out there.
Stefan

Dean and animation

Rob:

If Dean has "failed to make much of an impression" on any but his supporters, it's partly because the American electorate is so lazy that it depends on network broadcast news and headlines for its information. Anyone who actually bothers to study Dean will know that he's no flaming liberal. How many Democrats do you know who get a sterling rating from the National Rifle Association? (I know, it was a surprise to me, too.) Check out this profile:

http://www.alternet.org/story.html?StoryID=17533

But Dean's supporters are legion, particularly this early in the campaign. He has raised what, $40 million?, broken all Clinton's fundraising records (from 1996, when he was an INCUMBENT President), from contributions that average less than $100 each. That's a lot of bodies, right there, but more important, it suggests that Dean has inspired people to believe in democracy as a participatory sport once more. We believe we CAN have an effect on the process.

Nobody -- not the media, not the major parties, not the think tanks or other candidates -- saw Dean coming a year ago, and that suggests he has broad appeal already and the potential to reach many more . . . if the media gives him a chance and the Bush money doesn't crush him with lies.


Frank:

I recommended "The Triplets of Belleville" here a week or more ago. Pay attention, man!

Tood and Melissa
Man oh man, Harlan, will Deb be disappointed when she reads that you called her Melissa for the SECOND time in recent months; the first time being when we attended your Phoenix appearance and you invited us to Red Lobster until the oh-so-snooty audience of 5 or 6....low turnout.....spat venom at that decision and insisted on the Cajun place. As if seafood isn't imported to every fucking seafood restaurant in Phoenix, Arizona being that we're IN THE FUCKING DESERT!!!!

But I digress.

Alex, calling me "Tood" is fine. It's Deb's cutie-pie name for me since 1980 when she and I met. Fortunately, Deb spells it "Tude" so I did not mistake your typo for flirting.

-TODD

GOOD MORNING SUSAN:

My check for "The Beast..." is in the post.

Ellison's Modern Life
TODD: I can (if it's necessary) vouch for everything Harlan told you. In fact, last time I was there, his privvies had been upgraded with hot & cold running water, his icebox had been exchanged for a refrigerator, the majority of his "Casablanca"-style ceiling fans had been traded in for central air-conditioning and (wait for it) he had a dishwasher! Vuh-airy modern, very Hi-tek. Now if he'd just replace that $.99-per-roll, cardboard-rough TP with some Charmin, everything'd be everything.
--DTS

Harlan: 'indoor privvies"? Oooo, you lucky duck! I can only dream of indoor privvies.

Best,
Mark

TODD: I'm sorry; I didn't mean to "Tood and Janey" you. Blame it on the long worknight and the excruciatingly complex rhythm scheme to the song I'm writing right now.
(I jes' loooove to make things difficult for myself ...)

TOODD: Considering the forum to which we're posting, it should probably be pointed out that the writers of Invader Zim (Jhonen Vasquez aside, as he has creator credit) get nothing from the marketing and merchandising of the show. In fact, with the exception of the high-powered primetime network animated shows such as "The Simpsons" or "King of the Hill," NO writer of American animation gets residuals of any kind for his or her work, due to "Clause 27," a loophole in the WGA contract (Harlan, you know what I'm talking about) which exempts "theatrical cartoons" from WGA coverage. You know, like contributions to health and pension funds. Voice actors in animation? Covered. Composres for animation? Covered. Writers? Well, you've heard the joke about the starlet desperate to get ahead in Hollywood who was so dumb that she slept with the WRITER ...?

(In fact, it's more than a little co-inky-dental plan that "Zim" was axed by Nickelodeon, with the reason given being the inexplicable "In the post-9/11 climate ...", RIGHT AFTER all of the show's writers signed WGA cards demanding that Nick cut them in for their fair share ... which of course included residuals from DVD sales.)

Some writers I've listened to on the subject, including two who worked on Zim, believe that the studios are so adamant upon fighting to keep the Clause 27 loophole, and the relatively tiny amount of money it saves, because they and their corporate owners can one day envison films such as LotR or the Star Wars prequels or The Matrix will all be able to be classed as "animated" films and thus exempt from residuals or WGA fund contributions.

And just think: The woman who wrote "The Lion King", because of this loophole, got paid $30,000. No more. No royalties, residuals, nada. For a film which has probably netted (NETTED, not grossed) almost a BILLION dollars or more, when all the tie-ins and merchandise is figured into it.

HARLAN: I think you may have meant to cry for Deb's help, not Melissa's.

I squeeze in and pipe up to pass on these sentiments from a recent e-mail received from Bern, AKA Xanadu:

"If you could - please pass my best wishes on to the
rest of the gang over in the Pavillion - I notice that Frank has
inquired. Tell 'em I miss 'em and that all of them figure very prominently in my thoughts and heart."

See Frank, people do read your posts! :) But seriously, Bern had nice holidays with his family and they are all well at La Maison Xanadu. I knew you guys would want to know that, and that he hasn't disappeared into the ether. He said that he may even post again soon (I hope!).

Bern, you are missed!
PAB

TODD:

I have a DVD player. Three of them, in fact.

I have a CD player. Four of them, in fact.

I have a VCR. Seven of them, in fact. Three Betamaxes, four VHSes. And a U-Matic to play industry-standard three-quarter inch.

I have a Quad Electrostatic Screen stereo system; three other turntable systems; an Elektrodex; an intercom system; a Cannon photocopying machine; a fax; thirteen telephones with two lines and conferencing and call-waiting; a cell-phone for travel; two cars; an In-Sink-Erator; an electric pencil sharpener; electric lights throughout the house, as well as indoor privvies.

I just don't like &*$@()*&^!!@#$$%^ computers. That okay with you, o slave of the electronic beat-off machine?

Melissa, make the bad mans lee'me 'lone!

Oppressed, and not even negroid, yr. pal, Harlan

Harlan, knowing your aversion to certain aspects of personal computers, I am probably under the false assumption that you may also shy from other recent gadgetry when I say: do you own a DVD player?

OK, if that was a stoopid question, I'll go soak my head. If not...go out and buy one so that in a few short months you can own the first collected set of INVADER ZIM.

http://www.tvshowsondvd.com/

-TODD

Dear Susan:

The carrier pigeon has left with the money orders.

Merci,
D.

Anyone see Ebert last night? He reviewed this amazing animated film from France called, The Triplets Of Belleville. What a bizzare and wonderfully skewed looking film there. Might have to run to see that one.

--------------

We have some sassy little poodles on this here dais. Gotta love you guys.

------------

How about that fucking Rams game! Thee most exciting, mind crunching football game I have ever seen. Was like high drama.

Too bad I have to fuck up my weekend watching Howard Dean making a fool out of himself once again. I'm starting to think the Democrats want him to be the nominee, lose, just so Hillary will be President in 2008, and save the Republic.

------------

I could kiss Paul O'Neill. Hoping his new book will be the smoking gun that fucks up Bush for good.

------------

Lee, I'm ashamed for the other Webderlanders for not seeing your abilities as a writer. How dare they not at least pat you on the back. A sorry lot--and might I say a nary bit Jealous.

Watch me get quicksilvered.

David,

Dean: "I think he can beat Bush."

In the name of the holy cross, David, (see how easily an Atheist can convert just out of fear?) I hope you're right.

It's actually quite creepy having a president who walks about thinking God is talking to him all the time. Because, unlike transients roaming the neighborhood alleys who babble to God all the time, he can act upon it.

But the sad reality is, unless the economy is far worse than it is now by election time, neither the "corporate Vatican" nor preprogrammed voters will let it happen. And Dean needs to connect with people better, too; OUTSIDE his supporters (I still remember the way Clinton, when running against Bush Sr., strolled right up to people in the debates; he engaged the "common folk" in ways I've never seen any other politician do) he makes very little impression on people, thus far. For one thing, he talks (as do most of the Democrats) as if the country's majority stands against the war in Iraq. It DOESN'T; at least not yet (in large part because Bush succeeded through twists and turns in rhetoric to connect Hussein with 9/11 in the minds of the more naive. Sadam WAS a threat to Israel; he would have to be dealt with, ultimately, because weapons inspectors would one day leave. Yet, at this critical time he was no immediate threat to US).

In summary...I don't think the Democrats have anyone winning the confidence of that slim majority. Their argument rests with the country's long-run investment; and that's important to me too. But too many clueless voters only react to what they see right in front of them, not the "intangibles" - theories about the future - they have to think about. This leaves less on the table for the Democrats and right now they're being lousy strategists.

There's time yet. We'll see. But I remain thoroughly skeptical.

Rick:

Book confirmed. Thank you.

The Beast That Shouted Love at the HEart of the world
Please hold me a copy Susan

thanks, Rick

Dear Mike, Kevin and Ray:

Your books are confirmed. Thank you.

THE BEAST THAT SHOUTED LOVE...

DEAR SUSAN:

Please reserve a copy of "Beast" for me. Check for $23.00 will be in the mail first thing tomorrow morning.

Many thanks,

Ray Carlson

If I'm not too late (my clock says 6:14am PST) I'd like to reserve a copy of "The Beast..." The check will be mailed today.

Thank you

Mike

Cindy,

You asked if any of us had suggestions for the case you described to us. I only have one: Git them boogers!!

I know you can do it.

Chuck

Barney, et al. (u know who you are)...There is a new HE introduction to the new Asimov release..."The Return of the Black Widowers".

Tasty treats from the Glass Teat
HEY! Any of you regulars catch "the Practice" tonight? Great episode. Also, the first segment of "60 minutes" (about former Sec. of the Treasury O'Neill, and his revelations regarding "Dubya" and his administration) was dynamite. Can't wait to see how the idiotic puppets at Fox News try to spin this one. And I'm gonna be first in line on Tuesday to pick up a copy of THE PRICE OF LOYALTY by Ron Suskind. (CINDY: if you caught the 60 minutes segment, do you _still_ maintain that "Dubya" is an intelligent man?).
Ciao,
DTS

Deanie Babies

Brian Siano commented:

> Now, I'm not a big fan of Dean: there have been radicals
> who burst into the party, attract a lot of left wing support,
> and then vanish, like Eugene McCarthy.

Dean is no radical. The fact that fellow Democrats and Bush have tried to paint him as an ultra-liberal would be hilarious if it weren't so infuriating. He's not liberal enough to suit ME -- and several of his Democratic opponents are more liberal than he is on specific issues. They're not ALL that different, in the main; everybody's jumping on him and the tiny differences because they all still think they have a shot at the nomination. That's no different from any other primary. Dean supports the death penalty, he balanced his budgets (something neither Reagan nor Bush has been able or willing to do, despite all their hypocritical yammering about "tax-and-spend liberals" -- whom I would think are infinitely preferable to "borrow-and-spend conservatives"), he doesn't support gay marriage although he quietly signed the Vermont civil union bill when the supreme court and legislature thrust it at him, and most of all he doesn't strike me as any kind of ideologue. He goes with his gut; he learns and adapts. He doesn't have any Bushian messianic thang about establishing a shiny new Christian planet.

What IS different from the other Demos is the earliness, speed, and depth with which Dean has managed to excite a good part of the potential electorate, well before the primaries. Especially via the Internet, and among the young. He hasn't come across that well on TV so far (but how would YOU do, if everyone else kept you on the defensive?), but every time I've seen him speak alone -- live or via a broadcast medium -- I've been impressed with his smarts, flexibility, and charisma. I think he can beat Bush.

If he were really as liberal as everyone paints him out to be, I think the Bush team would be drooling to go against him in November, but the attack ads that are already running in Iowa suggest to me that they're just a little bit nervous about Dean. And I can't help feeling that media pundits who say he can't win are expressing a certain amount of petulance that they didn't see him coming in 2003.


> But what's happened? The newsweeklies are full of stories about
> Dean's "liabilities," and the discomfort many Democrats have about
> him.

If you're talking about the actual Demo candidates and party machinery, I think they're mainly pissed that he came "out of nowhere" and didn't wait his turn.


> Utterly amazing: I don't recall the magazines running cover stories
> about Dubya's liabilities, which are far more severe.

Quite. They're jumping on Dean because he's the flavor of the month, news-wise, and because nobody foresaw his impact by this point -- not even Dean.


> And the _New Republic_ has endorsed Joe Lieberman. That's
> not surprising in one respect-- publisher Martin Peretz is a Zionist
> crank-- but it's surprising that they'd endorse someone who
> doesn't stand a chance of winning the nomination. That's _strange_.

I grew up on the New Republic because my Dad had a lifelong subscription -- although in my teens I mainly read Stanley Kauffman's film reviews. I got my own subscription in or shortly after college, but they really started to turn snotty -- especially with their cover art -- in the early 1980s, and I dumped them then, and rarely have read an issue since.


> That indicates, to me, that there are scores of conservative
> Democrats who may actually withhold support for Dean if he gets
> the nomination. That's right: the very same people who were
> bitching about the Greens are indicating that they will not work to
> get the vote out for the candidate their party chooses. In fact, I
> will go so far as to predict not only a small, third-candidate campaign
> by some Democrats, but that some prominent Democrats may even
> _publicly switch_ to the Republican party if Dean gets the nomination.

I doubt it. But I wouldn't worry even if it happens. There are a lot of people out there who want ANYONE but Bush, and if Dean hangs on long enough to get better coverage, there will be more who think he'll do. Guarantee ya, if he gets the nomination, all his Democratic opponents including Lieberman will make haste to support him. I've been impressed by the steady series of other endorsements he's managed lately -- Gore, Bradley, Harkin. Good work!

I read the Jan. 12 New Yorker profile of Dean and liked him even better. Check it out.

THE BEAST THAT SHOUTED LOVE...
Susan, I too will take one copy of #12. I'll add $20 to the check for the rest of my order. I'm placing it in the proverbial mail tomorrow morning.

Thanks again,

Kevin

At the Titanic exhibit in Tampa they have a large quote from Jacques Futrelle on the wall..."For God's sake it's your last chance. Go!"

United States
>The newsweeklies are full of stories about Dean's "liabilities," and the discomfort many Democrats have about him. Utterly amazing: I don't recall the magazines running cover stories about Dubya's liabilities, which are far more severe. And the _New Republic_ has endorsed Joe Lieberman.<

It's not much of a surpise. The major media outlets are large corporations, and Howard Dean does not represent their interests. The New Republic, a once-fine magazine, is now a worthless rag, with no spine or acumen. The endorsement of Lieberman was more in support of his big business/war machine toadyism than any sentiments about Israel.

Better to read The Nation or The Progressive (which is admittedly a bit old-school) for the leftist viewpoint. But it matters not: barring some economic catastrophe, we are stuck with Bush until 2008.

Dear Lee and Douglas:
YOUR BOOKS ARE CONFIRMED.
No extra postage to France and Canada.
Just send me your details including if you want the books just signed or signed to you.)

Thanks. Susan.

Susan Ellison: #12 Offer - Oui SVP

Susan,

I'd like to reserve a copy of #12 "Beast That Shouted Love ..."

I'm currently living at 63100 Clermont-Ferrand, France. Please advise of total cost incl. international shipping and I will send a check.

I'm out of town until next Saturday (24 Jan.) and
will respond to any message that you post regarding this order at that time.

REGARDING TIM BURTON'S BIG FISH: From the first images of a spectacularly huge fish swimming around a pond, to the brilliantly-handled, episodic narrative of the script and the merely excellent acting by all involved, straight on to the full-circle, final images that match up with those in the beginning, "Big Fish" is a masterpiece. And anyone here who goes to see it will immediately think of Harlan during the last few minutes of the voice-over.

Gimme, Gimme... Please
Dear Susan:

I'll take a No.12. I'm way up here in Canada, though, so does that affect the shipping cost? Please let me know and I'll send the money order pronto.

Thanks,
D.

p.s. I'll even spring for a HERC membership.

DAMMIT BEN!

I KNEW I should have come back here sooner-- I didn't know it was YOU!!! If you'd written Li'l Washu on your post I would have written what I did and laughed TWICE as hard!!!

I don't want you to go!!!

Please don't go.

Cindy



I would have come back here and checked Ben's response sooner but there is this diminutive 62 year old man from town who is being railroaded. He can't afford a good attorney and the cops know it.

According to his family and one employer (who happens to be a county commissioner) he had been very sick for about a week before the event. He was accused of drunk driving, his tire was shot out he was thrown in jail for days and no one bothered to take him to an emergency room even though he was deathly ill. After three days he was near death. He hadn't had a bite of food or a drop of water, he was too sick. The ambulance attendant who cared for him on the trip between the jail and the hospital 40 miles away said she thought Sam was going to die on the way. She also said that at first she hadn't recognized him-- his face was so swollen.

He was admitted, presenting with double pneumonia and an enlarged heart. He spent three days in intensive care and another four days as an inpatient. Now he's out and the Sheriff and his goons continue to harass him. The county attorney is planning on proceeding with the DWI case against him even though the cops didn't get any evidence- no blood alcohol, no breathalyzer, no road side sobriety test on tape... nada.

I've found two eye witnesses. One saw Sam the morning of the arrest at a local convenience store. When I asked, he said Sam's face wasn't swollen. He said he thought Sam didn't seem quite right-- but he was in no way drunk. He said Sam bought a couple of soft drinks and sat at one of the booths. Sam also worked at this convenience store three days per week so the witness was very familiar with him. He said he recalled the time because he remembered the bus coming in-- it's due each day at a quarter after five. THIS day it was late-- the witness said it arrived around 5:30 and that Sam stayed in the booth until after the bus left. The witness watched Sam in his pick-up back up slowly. He said he bumped into one of the barrier rails around the pumps-- and said that it wasn't unusual-- the lot's small. He said he saw Sam pull up to the road and let a car go by before easing out onto the lane.

The cop reported that Sam was seen speeding away from this store after nearly hitting a bunch of cars.

The cop wrote a report to Sam's car insurance company that states the incident happened at 5:30 AM. He told the county attorney he was awakened by the sound of somebody doing "donuts" in his yard. He ran out with his gun and claimed that Sam tried to run over him. He said Sam "Would have run over my dog if he'd been in the yard!" Then he took out after him with his gun. He told one group of people that he fired two warning shots then shot out the tires. He told the County Attorney that he had his arm in the window trying to get the keys and Sam was driving with him hanging out the window so he shot out the tire. He wrote in the report to Sam's insurance agency that Sam had attempted to run over him and that's when the tires were shot out.

The tire that ended up flat was the rear tire on the driver's side.

The other witness told me he was getting ready to go to work at a local feed store when he saw Sam's pickup driving up the fenceline in a straight line-- he said he was watching it when he heard a shot fired. A little later he said he went down to the cop's where he saw Sam as the cop was bringing him out of the pasture. He said Sam was mumbling but saying no words and that his shirt was off and his face was so swollen that he didn't recognize him- even though he's known him for years.

There had been a rumor before this happened that the cop involved was layin' for Sam-- he found out that Sam bought the beer for high schoolers from time to time and he said he was going to " throw him in jail".

So here I am-- a po-dunk reporter trying to piece together the information that will exonerate the poor guy and incriminate those who would lie to bury him.

Any of y'all got any directions I might try out to help him?
Cindy

On Labels...
I like what my friend calls my stories: What The Fuck stories, because at the end, such strange things have happened you say, "What the fuck?" Harlan was a big influence in that regard.

Take care,
Bill

Harlan and Susan: Alas, I can't take part in the Great Book Sale. Outa work, limited funds, and feeding scraps to the wolves at the door to keep them from getting too curlish. Still, the stuff certainly sounds great.

Ben,

Sometimes you just need to get away for a while. Don't worry, though, I think you'll get a friendly reception when you come in here again.

Chuck

Haven't posted much here of late--most of my stuff's in the Other Place.

A quick hit regarding the film discussion: Why is it that labels aree so important to the sff/community? Magic Realism, New Wave, New Weird ... we just love slapping a sign on the work--and we love even more to fight over those signs ...

HARLAN, SUSAN: Sorry I missed out on the Big Sale--but with a thousand just paid in vet bills and five hundred on musical instrument stuff (yes, I needed them, dammit), things is a mite constricting, walletwise.

***

Hmm. Speaking of musical instruments, I don't think we've had any discussions on music of late.

I think I've already recommended the excellent Vicki Genfan here, and the recommendation still stands.
Another guitarslinger I think Webderlanders would like is Kelly Joe Phelps. An eclectic mix of blues, jazz, and folk, Phelps makes with his guitar a delicate wall of sound in rather the same fashion as Mississippi John Hurt, but his style is his own. He's worked a lot with Bill Frisell, a recommendation in and of itself, but most impressive is when it's just his voice and his guitar, as on SHINE-EYED MISTER ZEN.
An explanation of sorts: I've just started learning the guitar some time back, and though I don't play all that well, I can now at least figure out what better guitarists are doing, even if I can't do it myself. Not with Phelps. I have no damned clue what he's playing. With two hands and one guitar, he seems to be playing sounds and runs it would take two or three to play,

And the nice thing is that almost all the songs are his own. Songs like "The House Carpenter" or "River Rat Jimmy" have the same sort of lasting lyrics as a "Franie and Johnny" or "Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald," and are multilayered stories worth a second, third, fourth listen.

On the less acoustic side, you have great players and singers like Susan Tedeschi, who can emulate a Bonnie Raitt with sweetly soft singing or a belter like Janis or Big Mama Thornton with ease. Or Shannon Curfman, a guitar prodigy whose singing and playing belie her teenage years.

Then there are slide virtuoso like Louisiana guitarist Sonny Landreth. Not all that well-known outside of the modern blues scene, but he's probably impressed you as a session player on albums you already heard.
Another amazing slide guitarist is Tedeschi's husband Derek Trucks. Trucks is all the more impressive for the multicultural and multigenre feel his albums have. He can play full-out blues, rock, but mixes these with jazz feel (he's another one whom Frisell has worked with), or, more recently, with Indian ragas or African sounds. You don't often hear Son House and Ali Fuswat Khan soings on the same album.

Another blues/African hybrid is Corey Harris, who grew up on old-style country blues, then spent several years in Africa, soaking up that style. And it works. His singing may take some getting used to, as it's in the gravel-rough style of the early bluesmen, but paired with his playing and with the African rhythms he espouses, it just works.

Of course, the master of multiculti blues and jazz is Taj Mahal. His albums run the gamut from Delta blues to Cuban jazz to African, Indian, Polynesian songs. All done with virtuoso flair, and never seeming put-upon or surface. Taj gets INTO the music, whatever that music may be.

Anything new and neat you've been listening to?

Another good one, Lee..... if you don't write, you should!

THE GREAT ELLISON RARE BOOK PURGE
Dear One and All:

Many thanks to all of you who made the Ellison book purge a great success. THANK YOU. We sold most of the items in the list but...I do have 8 copies of item #12 left for those of you interested...

12) THE BEAST THAT SHOUTED LOVE AT THE HEART OF THE WORLD. Avon, 1969/Book Club edition. Issued as a main selection for March 1970. Hardcover. 1st Printing. This is the first hardcover, and the first true text. It is preceded only by the Avon paperback edition, which had been masticated by an overzealous intern copyeditor. So this is the first correct first edition. Condition: Very, very fine. Cover bright.

Price is $20.00 plus $3.00 shipping.

The offer on this board is open until 9:00am Monday. If you would like a copy/copies, leave me your name on the board and I'll hold a copy. Send a check to: THE KILIMANJARO CORPORATION, P.O. Box 55548, Sherman Oaks, CA 91413. At that time include your name, address and personalization.

Once again, thanks. Susan

Emancipating Carnivores

Frank: "Alien is a horror movie, because the science aspect of the story is nil".

AH, FRANK!

By me ire, yer always the one ta be takin’ plyers ta me flivver...

Of course there ARE scientific elements in ALIEN! That’s just about all you need for ANYTHING to be sf, dear boorish one.

From the autopsy scene to the onboard computer (that’s MOTHER to you and me), to the plot thread wherein Ripley works to decipher the transmission that had automatically wakened the crew from the crypto-sleep capsules…only to discover the signal was actually a warning not an SOS (shit - I’m beginning to feel kinda nerdy here). Along with routine space procedures used by the ship’s crew, these are all elements found in classic sci-fi.

But the most OBVIOUS and by far inventive example was the real-life model used for the life-cycle of the carnivorous alien lifeform. Its basis was the ichneumon fly which gestates inside the caterpillar of the African monarch butterfly; the thing paralyzes its living host, drawing on its oxygen. Once it’s matured it bursts out, finally killing the host.

COOL, huh? Kinda reminds me of my fantasies about Paris Hilton. Y’know, she did porno and it’s online somewhere; yeah, sometime I gotta do somethin’ about that and THEN...oh, well. What was I talkin’ about? Oh, yeah…

To repeat myself: the material traces itself to A.E. Van Vogt. Not only from ‘Voyage of the Space Beagle’ but a story he wrote, I’m not sure when, called ‘Discord in Scarlet’. In the latter he used the plot of a carnivore loose in a spaceship.

ALIEN is classic sci-fi horror, aka…"science fiction". Just like everything else in life.

***A quick word about BEN…

At one point I considered commenting on the responses to his sarcasm but chose to stay neutral. While not COMPLETELY sure what he meant when I first read his post I knew he was being sarcastic. I presumed he was trying to characterize us through the eyes of these upstart would-be filmmakers who think remakes of great films like SECONDS is a cool idea. However, even if I felt unsure about his meaning I knew he wasn’t trying to insult us all. I, like most of us, know Ben well enough to realize he never sets out to do that. His heart is in the right place.

So, I’m sure in the future, if his phrasing seems at some point ambiguous, we’ll all give him the benefit of the doubt before sticking him in a pillory.

Ben - get your ass back here soon, dude.

Various Matters of Interest. I have nothing to say about the Ben and David brouhaha. I hadn't wanted to reply to the original note about "Ellison wannabes" because it read like a troll. But, when the guy explained that it was misfired irony, that seemed perfectly reasonable, and that was that. Can we leave it there?

Learned last night that Philcon's 2004 guests will include the monumental Brian Aldiss. (Which means I may have a chance to meet someone who's actually worked with Stanley Kubrick.)

Current books I'm reading; Dan Simmon's _Hyperion_, P.G. Wodehouse's _Joy in the Morning_, the second volume of Janet Browne's biography of Charles Darwin, and I just picked up that big coffee-table book about Monty Python. Gosh, I'm smart.

The newsmagazines have had another wash of Howard Dean speculation, which is _amazing_, because this election is going to be a very severe referendum on the Democratic Party as a whole.

Now, I'm not a big fan of Dean: there have been radicals who burst into the party, attract a lot of left wing support, and then vanish, like Eugene McCarthy. And Dean's manner has a hint of a Depression-era rabble-rouser like Huey Long, or Sinclair Lewis's Buzz Windrip. But, he's the only candidate who's been flailing at the Republicans in ways that they deserve. And he's a Northerner, which would be a welcome change, and there's a chance that the northeastern Roosevelt values'll have a sway in a Dean administration. And he really has built a genuine, grass-roots organization-- not a feat to dismiss.

But what's happened? The newsweeklies are full of stories about Dean's "liabilities," and the discomfort many Democrats have about him. Utterly amazing: I don't recall the magazines running cover stories about Dubya's liabilities, which are far more severe. And the _New Republic_ has endorsed Joe Lieberman. That's not surprising in one respect-- publisher Martin Peretz is a Zionist crank-- but it's surprising that they'd endorse someone who doesn't stand a chance of winning the nomination. That's _strange_.

That indicates, to me, that there are scores of conservative Democrats who may actually withhold support for Dean if he gets the nomination. That's right: the very same people who were bitching about the Greens are indicating that they will not work to get the vote out for the candidate their party chooses. In fact, I will go so far as to predict not only a small, third-candidate campaign by some Democrats, but that some prominent Democrats may even _publicly switch_ to the Republican party if Dean gets the nomination.

Inviting a lonely old lady to dinner is a really good idea, if you can find the time.

I’m on the road again, staying in the servant’s quarters next to an old domaine house in Lentigny, population 200 - not counting the cows and sheep. The heater in the domaine house broke down last week, and the elderly lady that lives alone there was very unhappy as the repairs went on into the second day. So I invited her to dinner in her own toasty warm servant’s house. She brightened right up, and sent me off for a huge pile of Alsacian sauerkraut made special at a local tavern; it came with an astounding assortment of delicious homemade sausages, knuckles, lardons, chunks and juicy bits. She had a couple big bottles of pale German beer in the cave and it ended up being quite a feast. I hope the dog survives the leftovers.

We got into a discussion of WWII, possibly inspired by the sauerkraut and beer. This badly strained the capacity of my French, but it turns out she was 13 years old when the French army collapsed, de Gaulle fled to England and the Germans rolled into Lentigny. She remembers her mother screaming at her to get off the road when they heard the motorcade approaching, but she was excited to see the soldiers. Then they rolled in with a motorcycle and sidecar in the lead. Helmets, dark round goggles, huge baggy travelling cloaks, and covered in dust. They didn’t look human to her (I think she used ‘des étants’, which would translate ‘beings’), and she ran terrified as they began screaming at the locals to cooperate with their occupation.

She spent the next five years living off of locally grown produce and trying to avoid German soldiers. One day the English radio station started playing the same song over and over again. She didn’t know that the Americans had landed at Normandy until later, but it immediately became much more dangerous to encounter the Germans. As German soldiers began to move West en masse to block the American advance, American and British bombers flew overhead by the hundreds seeking troop concentrations and hard targets. She says they got to where they could hear the difference between British and American bombers; the British pretty much hit what they aimed at, but everyone cowered in fear when the American planes were overhead as they often got lost and tended to flatten entire areas to get what they were after.

It saddens her that even her own grandchildren don’t really believe her when she talks about her youth.

Funny you should say that. . .

I consider Shakespeare's The Tempest to be a work of Science Fiction, Fantasy, Expressionism, Magic Realism, Travelogue, Sociological Tract, Autobiography, Everyman Drama, Revenger's Play, Horror, Comedy, Satire, and even a Western!

Ach du lieber!

Steve Dooner

I Beg to Concur
This is so embarrassing, but I consider "Alien" to be both a horror and a science fiction film. Although, natch, the movie is primarily emancipationist.

D.

Ben, come back . . . all is forgiven -- err, forgive me

Ben:

Sorry about the silence from this end. You may have heard we've been battling a surprising amount of snow and ice up here.

I'm sorry I jumped on you. Hell, I'm sorry I didn't recognize your name from months past. Your post was just a little ambiguous, you must admit, and I read it the wrong way.

And you DID contribute something else to the discussion in that very same post. I apologize profusely, and hope you come back soon, if not immediately.

Thick skin? I've armadillo armor from dealing with people here - some with humor, some with argument (Hi Frank Church!) It's all good, and part of being human.

Regards,
Joseph

BEN: Have a safe and sane vacation; return to Webderland when you feel content.

All best, Harlan

First time I've seen a guy get slammed for tarring HIMSELF with too broad a brush. I didn't consider any of the comments to cross the line, though.

As far as Ben's multiple comments - since they were short, and went toward reducing conflict, they will not be deleted from here and returned to him. However, Ben, I expect even if you decide to come back (and why wouldn't you?) that you will at least take the weekend off to make up for the triple post today.

Toodles,
Rick

In fact, screw it. I'm taking a break from the dining pavilion - the whole Webderland - for the next few weeks, possibly longer. When I make bad moves like these, when I react so badly to a prod as mild as 'twit', I KNOW I need a respite.


Sayonara, for now. (And apologies to Rick Wyatt for posting three times in one day.)

Please - no lectures on 'thick skin'. I've been WEARING 'thick skin' here longer than I care to remember, and frankly, it's giving me calluses. I wrote my first post, and did my best to stay cool; a day passed, and I STILL felt full of bile.

Nevertheless, I DO know when I don't have anything to back myself up on. So, demand retracted.

We cool, David.

BEN
Gotta have thicker skin than that to play in here, bro.

BEN:

Let it go, dude.

Ben, though these types of responses and hurt feelings really don't belong in this Dining Room, I just had to say the following because it leaves me shaken based on some very old experiences with Mr. Loftus on the old board: I must defend David on his response and say you are owed no apology, regardless of venue.

Though David snapped at you for what appeared to be an insult to contributors of this board, your response was a, to paraphrase, "Just kidding, I didn't get my self-deprecating tone of voice into my writing what I did so you would know it was said in fun."

Your inability to express yourself using a keyboard to show that tongue was planted firmly in cheek does not mean David should be hit on the side of his head with a boulder because he took offense. If I hadn't recognized your name as a past regular contributor, I would have thought you were tossing out a "I hate you guys" bon mot as well.

Suck it up, big guy. Sticks and stones....besides, "twit" is certainly the weaker of insults that can be tossed at someone.

-TODD

Sheesh, I think I'm going through some form of male menopause this week. First I rail on Bush and hint at teaching him a lesson by voting in Dean (Shhh, don't tell Frank about that one, it's on that OTHER board) and now I defend David Loftus. I'm feeling dizzy.

All right, I'll just get it over with and say that Mr. David Loftus owes me a GODDAMN APOLOGY for his rash (if not downright spastic) behaviour. I'm not expecting one, of course - I'm not that naive anymore - but I've encountered David's kind before, and this is the very last time I'm putting with their flak.

Alien is a horror movie, because the science aspect of the story is nil. The movie's main thrust is about the creepy crawly in the shadows, waiting to latch onto a fresh dinner of human flesh and frozen horror.

------------

Colin Powell finally admits that Saddam has no ties to Al Queida. The WMD's don't exist--at least, accoring to Carnegie Endowment For Peace. Nine more soldiers die in Iraq. Bushes job approval rises.

A form of mental SARS has infiltrated the collective. I wish they would dock this boat, I need to get off.

a bit more on labels
Not to flog a dead horse, but I have a concept of science fiction and I'm curious to see if it holds up. It's informed by what I've read of Harlan, so credit to him if it works - and blame to me if it doesn't as I'm likely botching something somewhere.

Science fiction requires science - facts and theories that exist in the real world, though it's accepted that those facts may be extrapolated for purposes of the story as artistic license. So there is a continuum, of course, with 'hard science' being the most realistic. I consider fantasy to be on the other end, but that's an arbitrary semantic used to denote a setting heavy with things that can't be explained and must simply be accepted by the reader as fact. Star Wars, for example - it's fantasy; complete invention. The space ships that go vroom, the 'lasers' move slow enough to see.

I had a class in college that used 'speculative fiction' for a lot of the grey area in between the two poles, and I became fond of the term. It was applied for things like the dystopian settings of Orwell and Bellamy, who used logic but not scientific theory. (I've come to think of it as 'science fiction for english majors, but that reflects my own inadequacies as much as anything else)

It's not a definition, but to me horror is more atmospheric, like comedy. They can be mixed into any setting.

People who are bent on keeping genres clear cut and seperate weird me out in much the same manner as folks who insist that their veggies don't mix with their heaping helping of mashed 'taters. But I do think it's important to be able to identify genre traits - if only to allow for conversations such as this.

Brian

Thanks for reminding me why this little discussion group is the only one I visit on the internet.

Frank

I tried that science fiction argument with my college chums xx years ago. I couldn't get it to fly then - so, good luck.

Mike

As the Scotsman said to Bugs Bunny: "The weight of the evidence is against me."

I concede. I give. I surrender. Uncle.

I will bring up labels no longer and I will continue to wander about this cold blue ball enmeshed in my own delusions. Because it doesn't really matter.

And to put in an Ellison related note, I mentioned on the other board that HE's name came up in that new biography of Stan Lee and how HE was apparently influential in settling the rift between Kirby's family and Lee.

Not only is the man a writer, curmudgeon, bon vivant, raconteur, but HE is also a diplomat. Now, if only the Bush Administration would grant him a post, I guarantee you relations between us and the world would be reduced from a boil to a slow simmer.

Finals Day in 'Labels' 101

Rich,

"I will state for the record that ALIEN is a horror film."

I think you're just letting yourself get mixed up, spun 'round, and thwarted by labels. It's keeping you preoccupied like a bad rash.

It is my notion that when "science fiction" was first coined (originally scientifiction) it was meant to encompass the awkward cross-mixings we're arguing about right here. But if you accept sf as a self-contained universe of mixed forms the label isn't a problem at ALL.

Horror, comedy, satire, adventure, parable, whatever...they're all fused to the genre depending on any dude's or dudess' whim. Yet every example sits snugly under the broader heading "science fiction".

Sometimes sf seems almost synonymous with horror as a genre. ALIEN is loosely from A.E. Van Vogt's 'Voyage of the Space Beagle' (by route of the cheesy 50's B flick 'It, the Terror from Beyond Space', which had been scripted by Jerome Bixby). Pure psychological horror set in space; but it's STILL sf. And, shit, once again I have to point to Wells: Horror was one of his most pronounced commodities (as was satire, incidentally). War of the Worlds and Island of Dr. Moreau probably remain his best examples (Time Machine too, pretty much). And the original Outer Limits...that series used sf as an excuse to exploit gothic theater, owing a lot, I think, to Fritz Lang's early stuff.

I don't know how familiar with sf you really are or its history (in lit OR in film), or where your tastes really lean. But the genre is simply a coalescence of forms. I think people who can't understand this associate sf in the strictest, dumbest terms with rockets and ray guns, and not much else...to the detriment of its integrity. It bugs me. That's the reason I hacked out this post.

back to our regularly scheduled commercials...
Well, nobody wanted to play my painfully obscure Ellisons-who-are-not-Harlan game so I'm just going to hype some not Harlan but still really good friends of Harlan's product. From the Bud Plant catalog this AM;

http://www.budplant.com/prod.itml/sku/ARG01

It seems they are re-booting Argosy and the premiere issue has Leo & Diane Dillon artwork on the cover. Although I believe it's a blown up detail from a painting that has appeared elsewhere. On the other hand, bird-head masks and people disguised as animals is a fairly common image in their work so this may be a variation on a theme. Two volumes in a illustrated slipcase for $12.95 sounds like a good deal in these inflated times as bright shiny objects go.

Also, looks like a good market for some writer who's name I won't say but who's initials are h.a.rl.a.n. e.l.l.i.s.o.n...

Today's Ellison game is called Harlan Ellison shelf-space proximity or "sure I NEED the Effinger and Ellroy, but what about all this Eddison and Eastlake and Ecco and Eisenberg...

- Barney Dannelke

Eisforellipsis...PA. ..

checking in
Susan - I'm only occasionally using the hotel PC these days, so I hadn't seen your note when I called last night. Thanks for the offer even if I didn't avail myself, and rest assured it was no bother to call. In fact, there is a certain dubious pride in being the furthest afield to participate in the purge. ;-)

All pertinent mailing info, and checks for the book and my HERC renewal will be in the post in the next week or so as we get sorted over here.

Cheers
Peg

Look, have a theory (no, don't leave the room, saying you are getting a cookie and milk, or saying you have to take a dump. Sit still for a sec, and let me explain--this is gonna be good.): Since all stories are fiction, and fiction is based on a false reality, then it is scientifically impossible for fiction to be scientific; so that would mean that in essense, all fiction stories are science fiction. Good theory, right?

I know, back to making big rocks into small ones.

---------------

Mark Walsh, well, the book is a bit more complex then what you may think. And, believe it or not, few people in America think the rich are under taxed. You find this all the time, listening to the right wing radio crap, or eyeing the Ted Nugent message board. The term, "class warfare" is bandied about all the time. And not by the rich.

-----------------

Todd, can I have a loan?

Jaques Futrelle
HARLAN: I know you're not keen on these, but I'm going to risk getting a virtual kick in the teeth, and pay you a compliment. I’ve been working my way through Jaques Futrelle’s “the Thinking Machine” and digging every page. And so, the compliment: I enjoyed the placement and content of your introduction and thought you brought a level of fun and directness into what is usually the stodgy and overly important introductions you find in the Everyman series.

And now a question: In the intro you identified the antecedents of Prof. Van Dusen as Poe’s Dupin and Conan Doyle’s Holmes. But could Futrelle have had some real life models that informed Van Dusen? Someone like C.S. Pierce, for example, or some of the other pragmatists?

Respectfully,
Mark

SECONDS
I have an idea. Someone can commission Piers Anthony or someone of similar talent to novelize the "Seconds" movie and we can wait to see where Barnes and Noble shelves the book. Then we will know.

"Oh yes sir we have thirty copies of that book in our music department filed under 'S' for Folk Music."

Rick

I think I can squeeze under the one-post-per-day limit because the following is actually of interest, somewhat. It involves Harlan's writing, tangentially, and it addresses the issue of what's SF and what isn't.

Over on the Kubrick newsgroup, someone started a discussion about SF films and scientific accuracy. Eventually, the chatter got around to listing films which were scientifically accurate (or, at least more accurate than most). People started listing a few good choices, like _The Andromeda Strain_, or _Contact_. And someone listed _Outland_.

Someone else immediately pounced on that, and accused the guy who suggested _Outland_ for trolling. The guy was somewhat understandably offended, as he was suggested the film with all seriousness.

So I had to step in. I explained, politely, that _Outland_ was regarded as a film which made very _little_ sense, and ignored some very basic facts of science, and that most of this regard stems from Harlan's review(s) of the film in his "Edge in My Voice" columns. I cited some of Harlan's points; that it took the plot of a Western and simply transplanted it to a space station, that the characterization of the workers as docile thuds was at odds with the history of such laborers, that the Commery character's actons were more of an incompetent cop than of an expert marshall, etc., etc.

Well, that particular thread exploded into all kinds of fragments. The citation of _Contact_ prompted right-wing fuckheads to start accusing Carl Sagan of perpetrating a hoax with the "nuclear winter" scenario-- after all, if other scientists disagreed with the findings, Sagan must have consciously tried to dupe decent Americans, right? A couple of people started whining about how _creationism_ was every bit as valid and consistent as empiricism.

And some of the replies to my citing the Ellison column were, frankly, _bizarre_. One wag yabbered that Harlan wasn't qualified to talk about SF as he writes fantasy-- I replied that the awards he's won in the SF field made his opinions far better than most, _especially_ more than that of the no-name wag in question. He seemed to shut up at that point.

One of the stranger exchanges went something like this. I explained why SF was not just taking a Western, and changing the set design and props: the story had to develop out of the SF elements. I was drawing a distinction between two genres-- but several people took this to mean that I was saying that Westerns were a lesser genre as compared to SF. Nothing in my note indicated any such scorn for Westerns, either from Harlan or from myself, but no amount of pointing this out had any effect.

A few people began debating the ballistics of guns in a space station, with some offering reasons why you _could_ have high-speed projectiles in a fragile, pressurized environment.

One weird reply came with the point about the laborers. This one lady argued that miners, truckers, and other heavy-trade laborers were actually docile, cowardly wimps-- because, after all, labor unions were taken over by the Mob, and the Soviet Union sent thousands of such laborers to their deaths, and they didn't _object_, did they? (I gather that her idea of a real hero is someone like Ronald Reagan, who'd never done hard labor in his life, and who'd never faced war in the real world.)

One kid replied to the points about the Connery character's incompetence, i.e., his flushing evidence, failing to conscript help, etc. This person went on for paragraphs, "explaining" that Connery _had_ to "go it alone," because that's what kind of character he was, and offering all kinds of rationales for Connery's boneheaded behavior.

There were times when I wished I could have posted the text of Harlan's review. I didn't, of course, for lots of reasons, not the least of which was copyright. (A more compelling reason was that it wouldn't budge these imbeciles one centimeter.)

Seconds
Not to take away from the debate on whether Seconds is or is not science-fiction, but I think we’re ignoring the REAL issue of our time, and that is: How many angels can dance on the head of a pin? :-)

Okay, my thoughts on whether _Seconds_ is a great SF film: It is.

Science fiction is a form of fantasy which developed alongside the rise of science and technology in our lives. Its main characteristic is that it uses science, or quasi-science, to explain, rationalize, or justify the fantasy elements.

One characteristic of fantasy literature is that the story should develop out of the fantasy elements. If you take a Western, and change the horses to gryphons and the six-shooters to magic wands, you are not creating a fantasy story: the story may be good or bad, but you are merely changing the window dressing. But, if you write a story where, say, an alien technology enables humans to view alternate histories, and the characters have to examine notions of free will, predestination, and historical contingency, that is science fiction.

These are not hard and fast rules: the plot of _The Stars, My Destination_ is a crib from _The Count of Monte Cristo_, but it's one of the best SF novels ever written.

_Seconds_' story develops out of the suggestion of renewable life, through an undefined use of science and technology. It is _clearly_ science fiction.

Ah me oh my...Given the criteria that you guys gave a lot of films not normally associated with science fiction could be a science fiction film: THE ROCK, THE SEVENTH SEAL, X-MEN, HULK, ALICE IN WONDERLAND, AUSTIN POWERS, DR. JEKYLL AND MR. HYDE, SUPERMAN, SPIDER-MAN, SCANNERS, FURY, GREMLINS, IRON GIANT, etc. And maybe some of these films are science fiction.

Rob said, "SF is the form of fiction involving any imagined impact of science on society..." and I would probably agree with that. So maybe SECONDS is a science fiction film to most, but I would still argue (as I am) that SECONDS is NOT a science fiction film, no matter what Ellison and Nicholls say.

Again, the reason being is that the science involved in SECONDS---plastic surgery and the ability to make John Randolph appear as Rock Hudson---is secondary to the main thrust of the story, which is: I'd like to live my life over again. How one gets to that point is not necessary to the telling of the story, other than a suspension of disbelief; the same way that the money that Janet Leigh steals is only a way to get her to the Bates Motel, or, for those that that reference makes no sense because they think I should be talking about Ann Heche, the briefcase in PULP FICTION. These things don't actually do anything other than to get the characters and the plot moving. I wouldn't call PSYCHO a heist movie and I wouldn't call PULP FICTION a crime noir, either (actually I think it's a comedy). If the John Randolph character was a thief, stole millions, altered his appearance, and set up a different life would that be considered science fiction or a crime/suspense tale? And if you say science fiction, then add FACE/OFF to the list above.

I'm not trying to convince you guys that I am right and you are wrong (ok, maybe a little), but I'm trying to say that by labeling films that blur the lines between science fiction or some other genre may actually inhibit the way the film is received. By labeling SECONDS a science fiction film, I think that it does the film a disservice because it automatically restricts the film, puts it in a box, and doesn't allow it proper due as a FILM. A morality play. A piece of art that tells us that no matter how we change our appearance or where we go, we are still who we are.

Maybe I'm just jerking off over here and it doesn't really matter whether one calls something science fiction or not, but my experience has been that by labeling a piece of work something that is only tangential to the thrust of the story people make up their minds about it and dismiss it (or, embrace it) before seeing it. (Lotta "its" in there. Sorry 'bout it. Damn!) Labels, I guess, is what I'm arguing against, and there is no "win" in that argument.

Anyway, I won't take up anymore of you guys' time other than to say that I still don't think SECONDS is a science fiction film anymore than ALIEN is a science fiction film. And, please, before you jump all over me on that comparison, I will state for the record that ALIEN is a horror film. So let's move on and agree to disagree.

Seconds is a science-fiction film by any definition of which I am aware. What else would it be? This isn't even a case where the "science" part is confusing - the film includes the science element of the science-fiction. However, it's another reminder of why the term "speculative fiction" is so vastly superior.

And I will add my useless opinion that Seconds is, indeed, one of the great science-fiction films of all-time and one of the overlooked American masterpieces. A much more interesting film than Manchuarian Candidate really which reminds me that is being remade as well. Did they just wait for Frankenheimer to kick off before remaking all his best films?



UNRELATED COMIC BOOK NOTE:

I finally got caught up on five months worth of comic book reading. I read Spider-Man #500 (we're back to the old number system, it appears) and it ended with a scene in which Dr. Strange gives Peter the birthday present of "five minutes" which he uses to talk to Uncle Ben and get approval from him.

Considering it was written by JMS, I am assuming this was a very conscious tip o' the cap to Paladin of the Lost Hour. I wonder if JMS ran it by Harlan before writing it in. In any case, it worked for a good ol' tug on the heartstrings.

The Definition of Science Fiction According to Me and You

So, ah sez to Rich…

UNLIKE North By Northwest and Patton, Seconds IS science-fiction - finding its roots in Orwell and Huxley LIKE Clockwork Orange and The Prisoner series (but with its own unique thematic spins).

Whatever your own limited perceptions might be on what defines science fiction, Seconds is SF.

HARLAN HIMSELF REFERS TO SECONDS AS "ONE OF THE GREATEST SCIENCE FICTION FILMS OF ALL TIME". THERE YOU GO! 'PROOF' THAT SECONDS IS SF!

I’ve seen Seconds cited as sf almost everywhere, from Peter Nicholls’ SF Encyclopedia (which also covers Manchurian Candidate, Clockwork, and Charly) to Sci Fi mags like Starlog.

Science fiction is a terrain of many forms, often cross-pollinated. Now that Rich is clear on all this we can move on.

When it comes to defining science fiction I’m not denying its subjectiveness. I think almost everyone has his/her own idea of what it means, and we probably all think it should mean the same thing to everyone else. "How obvious can it be?" Right?

Yet, even Nicholls’ book says the boundary lines "reflect criteria of which often disagree with and sometimes contradict one another. The term is applied so loosely in common usage that no single definition will ever be universally agreed".

In the broadest sense - to ME - SF is the form of fiction involving any imagined impact of science on society, holding true in some way to the known disciplines of science (sometimes even weaving in pseudoscience) – hence, the realms of "hard" and "soft" sf. (I consider Science Fantasy a sub-genre, like STAR WARS: material that implements hardware familiar in sci fi but ignores science all together, often in favor of mysticism)

Films like Seconds and Clockwork belong to the genre which finds its great modern roots in Wells, Orwell, and Huxley - depicting a world whose political organization, technical resources, or social and moral codes are either Utopian or Dystopian. It is often set in a faraway place in tales of verisimiltude. It is often set in the past or the future; but it can also be set in the present to depict metaphorically would COULD be.

And in the broader spectrum of parables, fables, and fantastic journeys we owe so much to the satires of Voltaire, Swift, and Charlotte Gilman; and the exotic adventures of Defoe, Poe, and Verne.

The form runs a gamut of composites. It can fuse elements formerly restricted to fantasy (Wells turned Rip Van Winkle into a man frozen in suspended animation; Harlan brought Alice In Wonderland to a generation starship in Phoenix Without Ashes). It can depict societies like our own but with mysterious orders or outcasts - their very mindset - produced by science, as were the ‘Reborns’ in SECONDS. Two people may not see these composites quite the same way. To me they ALL belong to the worlds defined by science fiction.

Neb nominees
An oddity of the Neb nomination process means that stories have a year to qualify, and may therefore make the grade a year late; hardcovers, like ILIUM, often garner a flurry of recs after they reach paperback. So Simmons has another chance next year.

Goodbye to All That
HEY! "Goodbye to All That" is on the preliminary Nebula Ballot (strangely, ILIUM, a terrific novel by Ellison's buddy Dan Simmons isn't -- go figure). Everyone apply for membership to the SFWA so you can cast a vote for Harlan's story in April.
--DTS

Once again, I have to pull up a chair, sit down, take a deep breath, and justify myself for a catastrophic misplacement of words.

Guys - when I wrote 'arrogant snot-nosed Ellison wannabes', I was making an attempt to be self-deprecatory, not, I repeat, NOT, a wiseass. I was poking fun more at myself than any of you fellows. Nevertheless, it was a grievous error on my part - something I've done my best to avoid since my earliest days in the Webderland.

So, I'm sorry.

But David - it might be a good idea if you're not so hot and eager to leap to conclusions in the near future. My insults were completely unintentional. Yours were QUITE intentional.

Thanks Harlan
Your observations were dead-on. It took a while for the lessons, and the good things they would eventually do, to sink through my thick head. I won't tire y'all with anecdotes along the road to becoming a pro; I'll either make it (then you won't be able to shut me up) or I won't (and you'll never hear about it again!)

**

A book for you all: Neil Peart's _Ghost Rider_. Chronicles an 18 month motorcycle journey he took to find meaning in life after the passing of his wife and daughter.

**

I just finished I.P. Freely's masterpiece _It Comes and Goes: A Journey Into the World of Bladder Infections_. A great follow-up read to his friend E.E. Coli's masterwork _Tunnel of Pain_. I couldn't figure out if those were SF or not, either. Both, however, kept me wide awake many a night.

Seconds - SF
Rich,

You claim that "Seconds" is not an SF film, yet uses "SF trappings". What, pray tell then, IS an SF film? The movie is clearly fantastic in both plot and premise.

what a bore

Yawn. Another kid who thinks that tossing out wholesale and ignorant insults somehow demonstrates courage and mental acuity.

Ben, I may be arrogant at times, and as Cynicalgirl indicates, a lot of us are snot-nosed at this time of year and in this kind of weather, but this is not a "chat forum" (strike one) and there is no way in heaven that I "wannabe" Ellison (strike two).

I know I can't be, my strengths are different, and I mostly enjoy being myself.

How 'bout contributing something new, interesting, or at least positive to the discussion, instead of making an obvious twit of yourself?

Oobie doo-oo-ooo, I wanna be like you-oo-ooo
Snot-nosed is easy in these northern climates, and God don't we all want to be Harlan Ellison......but Ben can ya help me out with the arrogant part? Do I need to have some accomplishments about which to BE arrogant, or can I just assume the mantle as-is?

Frank, I hope you realize that recommending the Johnson book to us rich Republicans will now teach more of those not in-the-know how to dodge more taxes; thus raising the tax burden on you poor Democrats.

You have singlehandedly devastated your party!

-TODD

No way! The rich actually try to get around paying their taxes? Frank, the things I learn from you I already knew.

jus messin wich you, yo!

Best,
Mark

Frank Church's book of the week:

David Cay Johnson, tax reporter for the New York Times, has a stunning new book about how the rich dodge paying taxes, and how the rest of us pay for them. The book is called, Perfectly Legal and is a must read for every tax payer. You Republican's especially.

----------

Joseph Finn and Bern, where you at?

Hey hey, buddy,

WHO'S an "arrogant snot-nosed Ellison wannabe?" You wanna step outside and say that?

Wiping my nose on your shirt sleeve,
:)
Cindy aka a GIRL

Peggy!!
I'm glad you've landed!! I hope you free the cat soon.
:)
yer friend,
Cindy

Harlan,
I hope y'all get an imperial return on your lawsuit investment. Oh WAIT!!!! That sounds like I'm an Ellison wannabe-- let me rephrase that... I hope y'all get a BIG OL'chunka change when you sue those low brow bastards.
:)
Cindy

The Great Book Purge
***Glad to hear how great the book sale has gone! But really, did you expect anything less?!! Happy New Year...better late than never!

On the "remake" of SECONDS
If this project is really going ahead, there's not much a bunch of arrogant snot-nosed Ellison wannabes in a chat forum can do about it. It might be interesting, but that's about the most positive thing I can say about it. When I saw the Crispin Glover WILLARD, it was so identical to it's 1971 predecessor, I kind of shrugged my shoulders and asked, "What the hell was the point?" The same mentality seems to be at work on SECONDS. (In other words, the new generation of moviegoers is apparently so friggin' illiterate they can't even watch an old B&W movie without blowing a fuse.)

Speaking of which, I recently saw the American update of SOLARIS, starring George Clooney. It wasn't a bad movie by any means - George gave a surprisingly good performance - and yet it felt like the Cliff's Notes version of Andrei Tarkovsky's original. I prefer to call it SOLARIS LITE.

Rob,
Uh uh. SECONDS is not a science fiction film anymore than PATTON is a war movie (now, PLATOON is a war movie). SECONDS uses the trappings of a science fiction scenario to assume "What if this guy could live his life over again"? I think GROUNDHOG DAY is more of a science fiction movie than SECONDS is since GROUNDHOG DAY uses the science fiction conceit as a way to move the story along; it falls apart without it. SECONDS uses the (somewhat) science fiction conceit as a fulcrum, a way to get the character from point A to point B much the same way NORTH BY NORTHWEST uses the bus to get Cary Grant into the lonely highway and the cornfield. Take that "bus" away from SECONDS and you still have the idea of a man with a second chance, but you can fulfill this through other ways---money or moving away, etc. (Especially now, with the advances in medicine and cosmetic surgery, this is no longer "science fiction" to have the man have a new identity.)

And the reason I say it does it a disservice is that by labeling the movie as such I have the feeling that it will pander to the most elemental and sophomoric tendencies of an adolescent's dream of what a science fiction movie should be. Putting Mostow, fresh off of Terminator 3, in charge only gives me the suspicion that my concerns will be confirmed.

SECONDS

Rich,

"I think labeling Seconds a "SF" film does it a disservice, since it clearly is not a "SF" film"

Sure it is. It foreshadowed THE PRISONER tv series (here it’s "the Company" instead of "the Village"; it is my genuine suspicion Patrick McGoohan was partially influenced by SECONDS) and came from science-fiction writer David Ely. It’s no disservice at all. As "societal" SF with 1984 roots, I think it shares close space with the later CLOCKWORK ORANGE.

"the movie does belong to Rock Hudson"

It does, but the film’s true STAR is Frankenheimer. He and director of Photography James Wong Howe, who’d had a reputation for bending rules. Dynamite skewed angles and experimental fisheye shots and surreal images were used all over the place to underscore the theme of distortion; we’re put right in the emotional straightjacket with Hudson, forced to share the sense of futility in breaking free of it...and the shadowy, rather pathetic community of "Reborns".

Incidentally, do you know that Beach Boy creative guru Brian Wilson – at the time he had his breakdown – believed Phil Spector was beaming him secret messages through THIS film to sabotage his career?

Well, it had pretty much the same effect on ME.

As with other films I talked about earlier (and, again, my gripe is not the idea of remaking in general; it's with remaking great films that had achieved something new and unique), NO remake is justified here. It’s just another easy cash-in on someone else’s triumph because they can’t find new ideas. Yep, check off another boycott for me.

A Performance by Harlan
The latest issue of THE HEINLEIN JOURNAL includes several reminiscences about the late Virginia Heinlein. In one, Brad Linaweaver relates the following anecdote about his adaptation of a Robert Heinlein story for the Atlanta Radio Theatre Company:

“I’ll never forget the day I told [Mrs. Heinlein] that Harlan Ellison was going to star in my adaptation of ‘The Man Who Traveled in Elephants’. I should have taken a photograph of her expression. It was a casting choice she never would have imagined but when she heard the final result she thought he was splendid.”

The same issue (no. 13, the delayed July 2003 issue) also includes a fascinating 23-page biography of Virginia Heinlein by Bill Patterson. Highly recommended for Heinlein readers.

For information about THE HEINLEIN JOURNAL, see:

http://members.aol.com/_ht_a/bpral22169/myhomepage/

"T.V., it
satellite links
our United States of Unconsciousness
Apathetic therapeutic and extremely addictive
The methadone metronome pumping out
150 channels 24 hours a day
you can flip through all of them
and still there's nothing worth watching
T.V. is the reason why less than 10 per cent of our
Nation reads books daily
Why most people think Central Amerika
means Kansas
Socialism means unamerican
and Apartheid is a new headache remedy
absorbed in it's world it's so hard to find us
It shapes our mind the most
maybe the mother of our Nation
should remind us
that we're sitting too close to...
[Chorus:]
Television, the drug of the Nation
Breeding ignorance and feeding radiation"

--Disposable Heroes Of Hiphoprisy

THE GREAT ELLISON RARE BOOK PURGE
Dear Peg:

Calling from overseas would be a great bother. If you want to put the items you're interested in on this board, I'll check in first thing tomorrow and let you know if we still have them. My best to you. (Note: If any of you left a voice message regarding the books, please call back. The messages are not being stored with this modern technology. --Susan

P.S. Thank you all for your support this past year. THANKS!

PROGRESS OF THE GREAT BOOK PURGE

It is, o migawd it is, yes it is, verily it IS, not "it's like, y'know," it actually IS a bleedin' feeding frenzy. The phone line for the book sale begins BEFORE the appointed hours, and goes on AFTER the terminus time (clearly, even the cleverest people sometimes cannot read simple instructions), with people who're getting in late wailing and begging for items already sold. I've never seen anything like this in all my days on this planet. I haven't laid eyes on Susan for two days, the living room looks like The Little Bookshop of Chaos, some of our oldest friends have placed curses on MY head (I have nothing to do with this enterprise, save that I'll be spending the next decade SIGNING the damn things for y'all) because the I, ROBOT script was sold, and we're running out of items so fast -- apparently --that we will, indeed, make the initial nut to pay for the KICK lawsuit when the 9th Circuit gets around to announcing its (imminent) decision. What a madhouse, however!

Lying down with a cold compress,

Yr. pal, Harlan

no book bargains yet but better news for me!!
'Tis been a busy week, but for those who were following, we have finally flippin' made it to Kuwait!! Permits came in just before New Year's, we went through Bahrain over (your) weekend, and are now in what appears to be our last hotel for a while.

Doubly fortunate because, with all our mail getting forwarded since October, I have arrived just in time for the sale (I'd expected to miss out with the catalog over here). One or two items peak my interest, and if I can overcome the time change I'll ring in tomorrow for the chance at some goodies.

As for now, the focus is doing all possible to get into our house, just to avoid having to use the temporary apartments and to boost the wee kitty from her feline Foslom.

Best to everyone,
Peggy

RE. Julie Schwartz

MIKE NEGIN:

According to Harlan's last report dated Dec. 29, Mr. Schwartz was doing well and having dinner out at a restaurant with his family that evening.

RE : Julie Schwartz
I was just wondering if anyone knew how Julie Schwartz was doing? The last I had heard he was not doing so well....I'm a big fan of Julie's and have spent many a convention talking with him and enjoying his stories. I hope that he is doing better and look forward to seeing him again.

If anyone knows please post back.

Thanks so much!

Mike

reading matter

In December I read two or three Oz books (I'm rereading my way through them in order), several early Le Carre novels, the Philip Pullman's "His Dark Materials" trilogy (absolutely specTACular; Peter Jackson ought to film this next!) and three or four of his short children's fantasies (all wonderful), the odd E. Nesbit and Susan Cooper, Joanna Frueh's _Monster/Beauty_ (I've been invited to contribute a piece to a proposed collection of essays about her work), and sundry other books I can't recall this moment.

I'm 640 pages into Neal Stephenson's _Quicksilver_ (very good, but my favorite remains _The Diamond Age_), and plan to read Naguib Mahfouz's _Midaq Alley_ (one of my book groups' choices), Isaacson's Ben Franklin bio, and more Oz books next. Also Pullman's Victorian girl detective trilogy.

Re the Sky's links, like http://www.boltcity.net/copper_ruins.htm

It's a comic strip called Copper, and I really like it. Calvin and Hobbes-ish, with a nice sense of disconnected fantasy. Thanks, dude. More joy in the morning.

Just a quick word on the remake of Seconds...

I'm not against remakes per se (and I can barely wait for the Coen brothers' take on The Ladykillers), but I'm wondering what Jonathan Mostow brings to the adaptation. Hopefully, it's the same stuff that was brought to the better-than-average Breakdown as opposed to say, Terminator 3 (devoid of any common sense and eviscerated quite well by none other than the great Xanadu), but I remain doubtful.

Also, though John Randolph acquitted himself quite well in the Frankenheimer film, the movie does belong to Rock Hudson and I find it inexcusable that scifiwire doens't mention this. (I also think labeling Seconds a "SF" film does it a disservice, since it clearly is not a "SF" film.)

Recent Bukes Red
I read Harry Turtledove's RULED BRITTANIA, the same author's IN THE PRESENCE OF MINE ENEMIES (had to review it), and Simon Clark's horror novel STRANGER; am currently working on THE EMPEROR AND THE DRAGON, a biography of Akira Kurosawa and Toshiro Mifune.

JUSTIN--WHAT I READ DURING MY CHRISTMAS VACATION
I enjoyed a couple first-time forays into H.P. Lovecraft's work, "The Call of Cthulu" thoroughly creeped me out in a very cool, very pulpy way, and I also discovered "The Year's Best Non Essential Reading", this year's edition is the second in the series and contains a lot of interesting "stuff". Oh, and the novel "Already Dead" by Denis Johnson. I like Denis.

Also check out Caitlin R. Kiernan.

Rick

"It's all about drinking strange Wine." --HE

Like the ripples from a pebble someone tosses in a stream...
http://www.boltcity.net/copper_ruins.htm
http://www.boltcity.com/copper_014_blue.htm

OBSERVATION FOR DUANE

Sir:

Your anecdote about dear wonderful now-gone Bill Rotsler, who was as kind and fine a man as you'll ever be privileged to meet, is deliriously overflowing with The Lesson To Be Learned.

When a "writing instructor" is either unwarrented for the job, or has a dearth of imagination and passion, such persons will always tell you they intend to be "honest" in their criticism. For the most part, they lie. No, rather, they dissemble. Mendacity is built into their mother board. They're frightened that they will have to face your upset, your disappointment, your wrath, your "go do an art movie, you old fart" hatred. That is a vast load of scariness for sadsadsad wimps such as are most "teachers" like that. They are, at heart, unsure that they really know what they're doing -- probably because they have never actually worked as a professional writer, but are manques who learned "theory" from some other slug-manque at a university class no more stringent in design than the one they now teach you -- and so they must be "pals" with the students, they shy away from hurting your precious crushable-flower sensitivities, they seek to have you see them as fair and gentle and succoring, which is necessary for them to be well-liked.

A professional (which Bill was) doesn't always care if you like him/her, only that he or she likes the WORK. If such a one as Rotsler says he will criticize without thought to whether or not your feelings are hurt, he is doing you an enormous, and a dangerous, favor. He is risking his stature in your eyes to give you the benefit of his expertise. If Bill savaged the work, I guarantee you it was justified. Amateurs and start-ups NEVER judge their work accurately. They all think they're Jane Austen or Peter Straub a-budding.

What YOU received, apart from some pleasant private time with one of the most exceptional men I've ever known, was true and genuine criticism. And do you know what is the touchstone with which you can perceive how valuable that gift was? It stung. As only honesty full-blast can sting.

You should have been the envy of your classmates. Again, Rotsler Rules!

Respectfully, Harlan Ellison

Thanks again, Susan!

I sure wish I could've ordered more, but I'm between financial aid checks at the moment (it's hell). Speaking of which, any reactions to THE THINKING MACHINE collection? I'm mad to get my hands on a copy. Did anybody read ANYTHING good over the holidays? I flipped over WATERSHIP DOWN myself.

Justin

Cyber terrorism aint so bad after all. The Fred Phelps hate machine, Godhatesfags.com has been jammed by some good hacker, who put another page in its place. Great day to be an American.

TODD,
You really are quite right. I'll try not to make that mistake again, I'll borrow your silky preface next time.

It's just my opinion-- and I revere Stephen King and Frank Church, but I still think Mystic River was Toxic Sludge-- .

Is that better?
:)
Cindy


Frank?
Right wing babe is fine.
:)
Smiling now,
Cindy

I heard a wild internet rumor that someone at some point made a movie of Harlan's story "Deal from the Bottom." Maybe it was a student film? Is this true, and if so, can it be viewed?

Frank: Google? What's that?

*Deb: I'm glad I'm someone you can count on. Direct all further comment on my character to the other forum or to private e-mail, willya?

PAB

David, go to the other room and give me some examples of bad dialogue in Mystic River? The dialogue is stunning. At least, I thought so.

------------

Ok, Harlan, how about giving us your top ten movies of 2003? Curious what jerked your willy last year.

------------

Can you believe they remade Dawn Of The Dead? And then there's the Stepford Wives in the summer--as a comedy! Hollywood needs some fresh ideas, and fast.

And what is this thing with Nicole Kidman? Sure, she can act, but she is hardly a great actor.

------------

Nader might run again in the election. I may vote for him again. Dean cannot beat Shrub. Just give him the keys early--fuck it.

Footsteps
David,

Footsteps is a story that you will find in Harlan's Angry Candy collection. What's being offered by Susan is a chapbook that was done for this story....last I heard there were only 500-600 in existence.

-TODD

Deeper Than My Pockets
*** David *** and whoever else might care. No, I didn't buy the Silver edition I, ROBOT or anything else today. I may bat clean-up tomorrow or Wednesday on a couple of the Foreign editions but that's probably going to be about it. I do have the advantage of having started collecting in 1975 so there were'nt too many suprises but I am finding out that for those few things that have alluded me there will always be somebody with deeper pockets.

This has certainly been the case lately regarding some of the 1950's fanzine appearances which have been traveling in the range of $75 - $250.00 each.

Then there is the fact that this comes on the heels of Christmas or Buying My Daughters Love So She Will Visit Me In The Nursing Home Day as I like to think of it. It's sort of like the Karonovich/Twain collection going up at Sotheby's the same year they finish the museum/archives/learning center behind the Hartford house so there's no money to buy the rare Twain to put in the museum. Grr.

Thus plan B - going to the gym more often and outliving the lot of you. ;-)

- Barney

Seconds
Yet another remake, this time it's Seconds:

http://scifi.com/scifiwire/art-main.html?2004-01/05/09.30.film

slap dat man

Jim wrote:

> Read it and weep: The Kersh is MINE, baby--ALL MINE. Just
> remember the words of Erasmus: "Hate the play, don't hate
> the playa'."

Okay. But I can hate you for other reasons, can't I, Jim?

Erasmus . . . isn't he the guy who tossed the game-winning bucket after a blind pass from Esposito in the '69 championship?

(I'm just gabbling today -- an unprecedented third post, after the imposition of the new rules -- because everybody else is being so quiet. Tell me which forum to take it to from here, if you've had enough, and I'll go. . . .)

Got Ellison?

DAVID: Read it and weep: The Kersh is MINE, baby--ALL MINE. Just remember the words of Erasmus: "Hate the play, don't hate the playa'."

SUSAN: You were friendly and helpful, as always. Here's hoping the first day's sales go through the roof.

HARLAN: What's so horrible about the JOKES WITHOUT PUNCHLINES chapbook, anyway? (Item #36 on the Great Book Purge catalog, if anyone's keeping track. No, I didn't order it.)

the feeding frenzy

I'm breaking the one-post-a-day rule because today is a special day, for, well, obvious reasons -- in order to say:

DAMN!

I missed out on the silver-covered True First Edition of the _I, Robot_ screenplay, and _Nightshade and Damnations_ !

'Fess up, it was you, Barney, who got the screenplay, wasn't it? Who else got the Kersh?

Well, I got everything else I had ticked to buy, and added another item or two as well, since I wasn't going to be out quite as much dough as I could have been. And my wife would have killed me if she'd found out I tried to buy the screenplay.

SUSAN:

I'd be curious to hear, at day's end, how the sale went on its first day, and what tended to move fast.

HARLAN:

What is _Footsteps_? I might have ordered one of those too, but I don't recognize the title.

takin' care o' bidness

"Jack Reno" asked:

> Howse about Last Dangerous Visions for a change?

If you have the change, we'll talk about it.


> and
> Is Harlan still short?

Short of cash? Regrettably so, since he's been fighting a great fight in court the past few years. That's why many of us have been helping him out as best we can, and will continue to do so in 2004.

Always glad to help people out with their questions.

Michael Reed: Make the next "On the Road w/ Ellison" a five CD boxset. That'll make my year...

R.Wilder

Fascinating People
Dear Reno:

Congratulations on your transformation from "Janet" to "Jack." I'm sure the bureau is very pleased.

***

Ten years ago, I had the opportunity to take an sf writing class from non other than William Rotsler. Being the cultural ignoramus that I am, the name at first meant no more to me than, say, William Mulholland. But the course was offered through a local valley college and was reasonably priced, so I signed my name on the check, made sure there were adequate funds to cover it, and drove over to the campus for what I hoped would be an opportunity to bust myself out of a writing slump.

When I arrived, Bill was sitting at a table reading a paperback book propped up against a small cardboard box of materials he would be using to teach the class. I had no idea who this white haired and bearded man was, but something about him struck a chord in me (sounds trite, I know).

The class began. There were maybe ten of us in a small room, all in our 20's or 30's, thereabouts. He opened up the cardboard box and pulled out a stack of mimeographed class syllabi. To this day, I wish I still had my copy. I'm sorry I can't quote specifics, because it's been too long, but most of the syllabus contained thoughts along the line of As man discovers new tools for expressing himself, he will create Art that will ... I don't know, "literally transform humankind" or words to that effect (damn memory!).

He spent part of the hour introducing himself, in which we learned that he was not only an author but a cartoonist with a satirical bent, and an adult movie producer, as well. I think I recall Harlan saying that Bill shot a movie or two in his home, but memory may be failing me there, also.

The first class ended all too soon, and just as we were all standing up to leave, he asked the class if anyone there would be able to give him a lift home. There was silence as we all looked at each other, but knowing an opportunity when I saw one I quickly volunteered, despite the fact that his home in Reseda was out of my way.

As I drove, he spoke about his life, about coming to LA for the first time, and I just listened. I was tempted to pepper him with all sorts of "so what's the quickest way to get published?" questions, but I held my tongue and let the man talk. I dropped him off, and all the way home, I marveled at what an impression he had made on me.

I went to the next class where he challenged each of us to write a story to bring in the next meeting to be read aloud. At the end, to my delight, he looked over at me with a questioning glance and asked if I would drive him home again. I said, sure.

All that week, I thought long and hard about which of my short stories I would bring in to read in front of the class. Then finally it hit me. All my other stories were crap. He had taught us quite a bit about how to structure a story, how to add color to characters, etc., so I decided to write one specifically for that class. I took the day of the class off work, and sat down at 8:00 am to write a story that I hoped would reflect on what I had learned, but deep inside, I wanted to show this guy what a great writer I was, or would one day become, so I spent all day getting it down, and at 6:00 pm, fingers exhausted, I walked into class with 11 fresh pages of a brand new Duane original hot off my printer.

Two or three other people read their stories, but I barely heard them. Bill Rotsler's comments seemed to be supportive, offering a few suggestions here, pointing out a few fixable fallacies there. Then it was my turn.

I nearly passed out as I read my story from a combination of nerves and the desire to show this guy who so intrigued me that I was learning well what he had taught. I finished reading. I sat back against the chair breathless. There was silence in the room.

Let me pause for a millisecond to excuse myself here... perhaps I had been reading too much Ray Bradbury or Orson Scott Card or I hadn't learned how to properly balance my religious sentiments with the real world the story took place in... aw, screw it.

He HATED IT. Absolutely freaking hated every single word. Maybe he didn't like stories about super-daredevils of the future who, using corporate-sponsored super-machines, launched themselves off the summits of Everest and K2, stories that were wildly romantic in an idiotically naive way. I have no idea. All I know is that his harangue lasted many minutes, in which I felt myself being literally ripped to shreds. Even my fellow students seemed surprised. I could read in their furrowed brows "Was the story really THAT bad?" Then, I got angry. "Aw, fuck off, you cretinous old fart!" I shouted to myself. "Go shoot another 'art film' etc." I pictured the dedication page of my first novel saying something like "This book is NOT dedicated to William Rotsler, who..." and so forth.

Anyway, the long class finally came to an end. People were excusing themselves, making their way to the door, when Bill looked up at me, same as he always did, AND ASKED IF I COULD GIVE HIM A RIDE HOME...!

Needless to say, I was stunned, but I said, "Sure. Whenever you're ready."

To him, it was as if the long disemboweling had never taken place. I alluded to it, remarking that my story must have struck a nerve somehow. He just brushed it off. "Don't worry about it. You'll get better. You just need more practice," etc. Since it was the last class, I wished him well, he wished me good luck, and I left him there, at his home, deep in the bowels of Reseda. I drove away from the place, saying to myself, "you know, I still really like the guy."

I was saddened to learn that he passed away a few months later from cancer.

I could continue by saying that I did actually learn some valuable lessons from that particular episode, that I have become a much better writer, but it takes away from my point:

There are fascinating people all around, and yet they are extremely rare, as well. And while I may disagree with much that Bill Rotsler did and stood for, I am sad that he is gone, because I won't have the opportunity to thank the guy for the opportunity I had to get to know him just a little bit.

milquetoast
Jack Reno, you are small.

I'm wicked excited!

Walshy

On The Road With Ellison Volume 2
Greetings one and all. Well, it's a new year and I thought it time to touch base with all the fine folk of the Pavilion.

After a well-deserved holiday break, work continues on sorting through years of Ellison eloquence. I've uncovered some real gems thus far and hope to amass enough to be deemed worthy of release.

Harlan is often in rare form, but the audio quality is not always up to scratch. Finding the right mix of content with good sound quality is proving to be somewhat of a challenge. However, I will carry on and hope to deliver a great second volume to you later this year.

Best Wishes,
Michael Reed

Vanguard of Interplanetary Imperialism?

...OR: Beachball on Mars

Sorry I'm not exactly constraining to the current threads, but I am royally tickled by the successful landing on Mars of NASA’s Spirit rover (even if the whole thing really IS faked! Anything to humiliate the British and Japanese - Adeos 2 in the latter case - for their recent GALLING efforts to send probes of their own). Exciting shit and a great achievement in engineering. I think the new transmitted images of that barren, windblown Martian terrain are evocative and haunting...

I was imagining for a moment this whole event from the pov of those Martian rocks. Rocks...tuff-layered and resting there cradled in billions of years of solitude, besieged and defiled by incessant dust storms. They are complacent in their environment until ONE arbitrary day this odd baloon-clustered alien object drops out of the sky. Their uncomprehending "eyes" sense at least one thing: Mars will never be the same; whether they sense the object to be hostile, benign, or indifferent they KNOW it's by any other name an invasion.

Using your nifty "universal translator" we were able to approximate the exchange between two of these rocks getting first view of the skyborn oddity:

R1: 'ey, Hoiman! How d’hell ya a been?
R2: ‘ey, pal. It’s good. It’s REAL good.
R1: BOOT-I-FUL sky, today, eh?
R2: Da way I always like it, Sam. Dat coppa’s a little off today, but…Hey! Whatta hell’s zat?
R1: I dunno. But it looks like mah Aunt Ursa’s rhoids!
R2: Rhoids don't come droppin' oughtta no sky! ‘ey, Sam…izzit muh ‘magination or izzat ding comin’ OUR way?
R1: Nah…nothin’ nevah d’zat!
R2: Saaaaam. Ain’t it gettin’, uh…BIGGUH?
(Brief pause)
R1 and R2 together:…HOL-EEEEEEEEEEE SHIT!!!!!!
(A great shadow engulfs them. In the next few milliseconds it's over)

Picking it up from this historical moment, all Mars’ inert denizens can do is watch in puzzlement as the alien machine opens itself, ironically like a thing out of Wells, raises its sensors, and goes about its mysterious course.

Mars has been changed forever.

(I would like to find out more about what researchers have been learning from the few other rovers we've successfully deployed in recent years)

Another Interesting Essay: The Things You Can't Say

Folks,

Here's an interesting essay written by Open Source software advocate Paul Graham about the concept of "heretical" thoughts and speech.

http://www.paulgraham.com/say.html

He makes some thought-provoking points, such as:

"Moral fashions more often seem to be created deliberately. When there's something we can't say, it's often because some group doesn't want us to. The prohibition will be strongest when the group is nervous. The irony of Galileo's situation was that he got in trouble for repeating Copernicus's ideas. Copernicus himself didn't. In fact, Copernicus was a canon of a cathedral, and dedicated his book to the pope. But by Galileo's time the church was in the throes of the Counter-Reformation and was much more worried about unorthodox ideas.

"To launch a taboo, a group has to be poised halfway between weakness and power. A confident group doesn't need taboos to protect it. It's not considered improper to make disparaging remarks about Americans, or the English. And yet a group has to be powerful enough to enforce a taboo...

"I suspect the biggest source of moral taboos will turn out to be power struggles in which one side only barely has the upper hand. That's where you'll find a group powerful enough to enforce taboos, but weak enough to need them."

Enjoy!

-- Jon

PAB: You can always be counted on for a snotty and nasty response. But then again, that's my " facile " opinion.

Elevating the Discussion
Jack Reno: work on your material.

reading aloud and various films

In response to a question from Alejandro, HE recently posted:

> Reading stories aloud is one of my deepest pleasures. I glory in it.

I love to read aloud, too. I've done it before live audiences and for radio broadcast. It's a lot of fun, especially when you get a live audience laughing and gasping. Of course, I read a lot at home to my wife Carole, too: I'm on the downhill side of the second Aubrey/Maturin book, Patrick O'Brian's _Post-Captain_ right now. (Over the years I've read John Fowles novels, Timothy Findley's fantastic _Not Wanted on the Voyage_, and many many other books to her. Show of hands: How many people out there have read Harlan Ellison's "The Prowler in the City at the Edge of the World" out loud to their grandmother? I did!)


> And it comes so easily to me, that I can go before the microphone
> cold and do a good job. I never rehearse. I hit the studio, Stefan
> gives me the material, and I boogie. Admittedly, it's easier with
> material that I've written, but in truth, it makes no difference. I
> dive in, find my "voice" in a word or two, at most within a sentence,
> and I AM that character till the end of the reading.

I also usually read without rehearsal. I suppose it sounds harder than it is to people who haven't tried it -- and maybe there's some talent involved -- but most writers tell you all you need to know as you go along. Your peripheral vision will pick up the critical adverbs and adjectives next to the dialogue it describes, which tells you how to read it. You usually find out enough about a character along the way to voice him or her fairly accurately on the fly.

The only time I remember getting bitten was when I was recording an early, classic Ray Bradbury story called "There Was an Old Woman." I think I started out giving her a crotchety, southern hick kind of voice, only to find it described several pages later as more New England blue-blood-ey. Woops! Had to go back and redo those first few pages! But that's rare.


> I don't want my
> interpretations to sound as if I'm "reading." I try to project an
> ambience that sounds as if I were TELLING you the story face
> to face, without that air of distance and formality one encounters
> on so many spoken word presentations. I never put on that
> affected BBC stiff-voiced "I am declaring thoughts of immortal
> importance" tone or manner that makes a listener feel he's in
> study hall, rather than under a tree in the Spring sunlight, as one
> listening with Geoffrey Chaucer, hearing him savor his poems for
> pleasure. Apparently, I have an affinity for the form, likely having
> absorbed the m.o. from hearing what you folks would call "old time"
> or "Golden Age" radio. QUIET PLEASE, Orson Welles as THE SHADOW,
> even Jack Webb doing the radioplays of Richard L. Breen. There is
> an ease, a silken quality, to the voices and familiarity of those men
> and women that I have always tried to emulate.

This somewhat stilted and even style one finds on many commercial recordings -- which Alejandro objected to -- may partly be dictated by the audio publisher. From time to time I've inquired about submitting an audition to these outfits, and at least one specifically told me they do NOT want a lot of acting and expression on their recordings -- I suppose because they're afraid many readers aren't very good at it, or that customers from various parts of the nation may have trouble understanding certain words and stop buying, if the drama and accents vary.


> Beyond those self-observations, Alejandro, I think you should ask
> Stefan Rudnicki, when he surfaces here next month. He has worked
> with the best and the ultra-best, and his observations about me and
> my approach to spoken word will, I think, address your curiosity much
> more cogently.

Are you saying Rudnicki is going to drop into the board here for a while, Harlan?

I don't recall seeing a call for requests with regard to stories for Volume III of Voice from the Edge, but my nominations would be:

"The 3 Most Important Things In Life"
"Daniel White for the Greater Good"
"Along the Scenic Route"
"The Resurgence of Miss Ankle-Strap Wedgie" (yeah, I know it's a long bugger, but it's WORTH it!)
"The Deathbird"
"Mefisto in Onyx"
and
The Other Glass Teat, 24 July 1970 (you know, the one about the time you were an eligible bachelor on the Dating Game)


As for movies mentioned here, I enjoyed "Secretary" a lot, thought "Mystic River" was solid but certainly not the best of the year (some of the dialogue was not very good). Just saw the wonderfully screwy "Bubba Ho-Tep" last night -- great fun -- and the very differently wonderfully screwy "The Triplets of Belleville" last week. Both recommended.

Paula, ever heard of Google?

---------

Todd, I thought I offended you. I feel slighted. Take it back, mister!!

---------------

Steven King is right about Mystic River, and some of the critics are wrong about House Of Sand And Fog. Very good movie, but not a classic. The trouble with the way they project arabs bugged me. Call me pc if you will, or debate me later in the other domicile.

Todd, re: *Deb's post about SECRETARY on the other forum-- that was me who called her on her facile and judgemental reaction to the movie... but one has to wonder why you'd bring this up HERE, three weeks AFTER the post was made in the other forum. Why not reply in the corret venue and save the bandwidth over here?

And now for something completely different:

I am interested in reading up on the ancient Library at Alexandria, and haven't found anything really interesting or comprehensive on Amazon. Anyone know of anything, fiction or non, on this subject?

Thanks,
PAB

Movies and Pizza.....It's Personal
Cindy, your posting brings up a topic that I have often debated with friends, relatives, enemies and strangers in the mall who try desperately to avoid me: No matter how much you agree with a person in life, no matter how much you like them or know them or respect them or loathe them or whatever, there are two things that you cannot count on when opinions arise. Movies and Pizza.

I've had people tell me that they had the greatest pizza in the world....but when I try it, I want to wipe the leftovers under the counter so it can mingle with the chewed gum and kiddie boogers. I've raved (back in my Jersey life) about Luigi's Pizza in Roxbury NJ. Best pie around. But others just tittered and continued to order their lesser pies. There's a pizzaria here in the Valley, in Scottsdale, called NYPD Pizza. I've yet to try it. I'm itching to try it. Everyone raves about it, even the newspapers and magazines. One day I'll try it.....but I do so with trepidation.

The same goes for movies. This board is chock-full of movie discussions and reviews and some high-minded elocutions that hint toward you being a fool if you don't like suchnsuch or a schmuck if you do like whichnwhich. In the end, though, a person's opinion on a movie is highly personal...and raves often lead to disappointment.

Folks have been raving about Mystic River since it opened. I read the book. It was fine. I saw the movie. It was fine. There is nothing there for me to rave about, though, and it appears beloved at this point in movie history (Stephen King said it was the best movie in 20 years....then again, Stephen King doesn't like Kubrick's brilliant version of The Shining. Of course, for him more than others, it's personal).

I loved LOTR:Return of the King this year. Loved Lost In Translation. I know my sister and brother-in-law would probably hate both. Nothing against them....I would just never push my tastes on them. I raved about Punch-Drunk Love last year and the only soul who did not spit at me for that recommendation was my nephew. I try not to recommend movies to friends and family much.....or I preclude an opinion when asked with "You may not like it, but I loved it" or "Don't go....you'll hate it. I don't want to be blamed for your bemusement."

Read back on this board and you will see the diverse opinions. Some even get nasty, or at best, high-faluting. There was one movie that a few on the board raved about called Secretary. It was a small, well reviewed dark comedy that came out last year about a sado-masochistic secretary and her boss who embraced this. I'd wanted to see it for awhile, and when the wife and I caught it on cable a couple of months ago we were disappointed. No big deal....a matter of taste. We were not offended, nothing offends us (unless you walk up to us at dinner and pinch a loaf in our soup), we just didn't find the movie to be that good. But when the wife expressed this opinion, she was surprisingly taken to task for "not knowing what the movie was about before viewing it" (which she didn't, while I did) and not being open-minded to other's sexual preferences. This was silly. Someone had adored this movie so much that the matter of opinion when defending it became silly. She didn't like it. End of story. Hell, she loves sado-masochism.....loves when I beat her while forcing her to lick the soles of my shoes....but that's personal.

Cindy, as you can imagine, all of this verbiage boils down to one thing....I luv ya....but I hated Something's Gotta Give. I love Jack Nicholson, the spouse loves Diane Keaton, we really really wanted to love a movie about grown up people who fall in love with eachother.....but we hated this cliche, sloppy, unfunny, overlong piece of Hollywood fluff. Ptooie.

But please, do not take offense when I tell everyone DON'T see this movie. After all....it's just my personal taste.

Now, would you please pass the pizza.

-TODD

Low budget tricks are ALWAYS appreciated. What I'd like to know is how to get that red/gold dying sun color without having to shoot around the sun's schedule.

Meantime, I went to see Something's Gotta Give ( usually I avoid anything with the word "GOTTA" in it--but the stellar cast diverted my attention and helped me overcome my initial revulsion). The film was SPECTACULAR-- ABSOLUTELY BRILLIANT. Diane Keeton really should get an Oscar for this one-- she's astounding in it. Jack Nicholson-- well hell, need I say more?

I really, REALLY loved this film-- go see it. You won't be disappointed.

It's the best film I've seen in a long, LONG time. It's smart, and there are't many of those any more. It reminded me of the old films of the 30s and 40s when the focus was on wit and humor. No tricks, no pattern-- just smart fast dialog and real situations. I was dazzled.

Oh! Did I also say it's BEAUTIFUL? It is a stunningly gorgeous film to watch-- so you really have the whole package here. If you go see ONE film see this one.

Cindy Ebert

A little of this, a little of that
Jack Reno--your nickname is Jackass, right?

Brian--I first read "A Boy and His Dog" when it appeared in "New Worlds," which really shows my age. It wasn't long after I first met Harlan. He was young, I was a teenager, and the animosity toward the story was largely political. It wasn't possible to discuss it on its own terms. No matter how hard you'd try, feminism became the central debating point. At one typical discussion panel at a Canadian convention, an angry woman accused Harlan of "killing the heroine" because she was a woman. He snapped that she didn't die because she was a woman, but because she was a bimbo, or something to that effect (Harlan--sorry if I'm not getting it quite right, but it has been over 30 years. I remember your snarl better than your exact words).

It's astonishing that the story still has the power to shock and offend after all these years. You'd think that it would be in "Stories for Dog Lovers" by now. Nice work, really. In an era when cannibalism films are utterly unremarkable, Harlan's story still upsets people.

Frank--thanks for the warning, but I'm still going to go to "Paycheck." What the hell, it's one of Philip Dick's weakest stories. I don't expect much but cheap, mindless entertainment. Can't be any worse than the new "Peter Pan" (a glaring example of "look at me, I'm directing!" obtrusiveness).

Incidently, I never realized you were in Cincinnati. Lafferty wrote something about the town that hovers on the edge of memory--something about river-towns not being like other cities. If I can remember where the heck it was, I'll post it. I always liked Cinci, myself. During my college years in Lexington, it was the nearest source of genuine bagels.

Eric--the fannish fickleness you describe was parodied marvelously in one of the earliest sequences in Sim's "Cerebus." If you've never read "High Society," you ought to pick it up.

Good luck to everyone waiting to punch the numbers into their phones for the big Sell-Off. I've got a medical procedure that first day. Ain't life a bitch?

Alternate Ending
Brian,

On the commentary track, Jones mentions something about his desire to have Vic killed in the very last shot. Did you catch that? WTF?

A Boy and his Dog
No, I'm not going to resurrect any old debates, at leastways not by intention. I finally got the reissued DVD, and saw the film for the first time in nearly twenty years.

When I first saw _Dog_, it was at a Creationcon here in Philly. This was when the Creationcons were held in the basement of a central-Philly hotel, and the trade wasn't just in superhero stuff; there were a _lot_ more underground comics in those days, and I was usually able to fill in the gaps in my _Lampoon_ collection. This being the late 1970s, the films tended to be 16mm prints from rental companies, ad were usually comic-book fare like Republic adventure serials or the Adam West _Batman_ movie. But one night, the movies they had for showing were _Dark Star_ and _A Boy and his Dog_.

I enjoyed them both, and although I was aware of Harlan's objection to the ending, I thought the ending was a pretty funny, sick joke. Hey, I was seventeen.

Watching the film on DVD twenty-two or three years later, well, my reactions' pretty different. The best things about the movie are, well, Tiger and Tim McIntire as Blood, and the bleak desert landscapes of the first half. The desert was a nice way of doing a wasteland on a very low budget, and that aside, the first half gets Harlan's story exceptionally well. (There's a wonderful shot of Vic and Blood, right after eating, where they're laying on their backs and bullshitting each other. Utterly perfect, that shot.)

Okay, now here's where the film hasn't done so well. It's the downunder sequences, and they suffer from the low budget and, well, a pretty clumsy attempt at satire.

In Harlan's story, the downunder is pretty much a massive cave that's been filled with a simulacrum of a small country town. The fact that the residents _try_ to live as though things haven't changed, i.e., the world hasn't been wiped out, would have been even more deranged if the film could have shown the steel ceiling, the cramped conditions, the jerry-rigged fakiness, and the sinister enforcement of the social niceties.

But they couldn't afford it, so L.Q. Jones basically shot his downunder "exteriors" at night. But it doesn't even seem to be underground: it looks like, well, night.

And when the John Philip Sousa music starts in, cross-cutting Vic being cleaned, a billards game, and a marching band, the film turns into a cartoon; if you're using Sousa against incongruous images, you don't even _need_ clown makeup on the actors to tell the audience you're being satiric. It's another lapse to have Don Johnson seemingly happy-go-lucky when he's in custody: I'd figure he'd fall into pure survival mode at that point. But the intro to the downunder feels more like an outtake from _Cold Turkey_ (one of my favorites).

There are some good things in the downunder sequence. The scene of Vic strapped to a machine, while the local parson performs a succession of marriages to make the whole thing nice and proper, was _brilliant_. There's an inkling of strong social comment with Quilla June's cronies, whose fate shows them to be utterly ineffectual for almost anything. (Their fate, BTW, is one of the worst-staged moments in the film.) And Jason Robards is his usual exceptional self in the role of the town father with barely-controlled urges-- watch for his almost-slap on Quilla June's ass in one scene, and understand what sort of parent would even consider it. But by and large, the downunder sequence just doesn't work well against the stuff we've seen on the surface.

Okay, the ending. Let's assume that we haven't read Harlan's story, and that we came into the movie cold. It's not a bad ending. Quilla June, already revealed as an uttery untrustworthy human being, pretty much demands that Vic go with her and abandon Blood. By now, Vic should have come to his senses-- and the situation he's in demands that he do what he does. After all, this wasteland is the only world he's really known, and he knows the rules. By doing what he does, Vic is pretty much coming back to himself. And Blood's final line is, well, a way for the film to end on a note of jolly, dark humor-- at least, for the guys in the audience who "lahk seein' the bitch git whut's comin't'her."

But it isn't the ending of the story. In the story, despite Vic's survival skills, he's been touched by Quilla June. He may not have loved her, but he's felt _something_ for her. And one could read the last lines of the story with Vic in a slightly regretful mood, only mildly haunted by his memory of Quilla, just having come to the realization that he and Blood are partners. The last line could be read aloud, very gently: "A boy loves his dog."

But with a little thought, Vic's last few paragraphs are far more wrenching. It's not that he's lost the first girl he's ever loved: he's just had to kill her, render her, cook her flesh, and feed her to a dog. Those last paragraphs aren't just a rumination: Vic is clinging to his love for Blood to give some kind of shape to this horrible thing that's happened. That last line would be read on the verge of tears.

Two questions for this year
The first question for the new year is:
Howse about Last Dangerous Visions for a change?
and
Is Harlan still short?

Puzzling Posts
Strange posts…a series of questionable queries concerning the clarity of previous posts. Scrolling back, unearthing the source was problematical, nay, completely impossible. Perhaps we could embark on new subject matters? Or maybe I should just visit more often so I can keep up. Whatever the case, a joyous New Year to one and all (and any not included in that expression). Restez sain--JCH

Junk Science: A Talk by Michael Crichton
Folks,

Although Michael Crichton made this speech at Caltech a year ago, I just came across it tonight, and thought I might post the link for others who might not've read the transcript. Crichton and Harlan have been buddies (and still are, to the best of my knowledge), so it's peripherally on-topic, here in this forum. Enjoy!

http://www.crichton-official.com/speeches/speeches_quote04.html

-- Jon

ERIC,

I suppose you're right in this case. As Adam said, "it only takes one cup of hurled vomit to make everybody look bad". In all likelihood, the number of truly malevolent fans IS low, but for whatever reason, a lot of us are far better at recalling and magnifying the negative instead of the positive. Just look at the sub-human who stalked Jodie Foster. I don't know why we're wired this way, we just are.

FRANK,

My humour bone was removed back in '99. It suffered irreparable trauma from Blake Edwards' A SHOT IN THE DARK.

Woo-Choo-Kee-Choo

Harlan,

If it’s one thing you’re utterly handy ‘round the house for it’s saving me sprints to the thesaurus!

Re: JOHN WOO. He left great promise behind in Hong Kong and, apparently w/o looking back, has since tapped to the lyrics,

I've thrown away my toys
Even my drum and train.
I wanna make some noise
With real live aeroplanes.

...noise...lots 'n lots o'NOISE...and NOTHING else.

Ding Ding Ding!!! Survey says...

bzzzzzzzttt. Oh, thank you for playing!

Yours is not the response I was hoping for - god knows what I was hoping for - but I am having it sewed into a sampler nevertheless. Thank you.

The "joke" is that I simply had no idea who you are, didn't know anything about you and this place, couldn't buy a clue and had mistaken all of this cyber-forum chat as an opportunity to talk to famous B-movie Oater James "Jimmy" Ellison and star of The Plainsman.

The source of this particular deranged post comes from years of filtering YOU from all of the James, Jennifer and Ralph Ellison references on the internet. Not to mention the Ellison die-cut stuff, Ellison industrial gauges, and of course the ubiquitous but now almost entirely eclipsed by your shadow Hal Ellson, who, now that I have uttered his name here will be confused yet again and even more frequently by people using Google and other search engines. The poor bastard.

And ALL of this synaptical misfiring stems from an idea years ago to introduce you as all of the "wrong" Ellisons with either you or Tim Richmond shouting me down with corrections until I give up and you storm the stage. Needless to say, this schtick would not have played well in the hinterlands if it bombed here.

But your response was golden. Sorry you had to spend time backtracking when the source was just boredom and sunspot activity on this end.

- Barney

ps. Sometimes I still wish you were Jennifer Ellison but that's just me. ;-)

QUERY TO DANNELKE

I know from the permafrost fear in my heart that moments after I ask this, I will be sucked down into a quagmire of piranhalike verbiage and Bizarro World illogic, but gawd help me I cannot draw back from the coruscatingly bright promise of a hellish new revelation from the Book of Barney.

Old chum, I've known you since your rambunctious teen years; and I've usually been able to fathom and parse the undermeanings in your esoteric pidjin inglish grunt&warble observations. But ...

What the hell does that most recent post of yours -- just preceding this one -- refer to? What is the Codex? Whereat lies the Rosetta Stone? Will I need a Navajo codetalker windwalker? I reviewed all posts on this site back to the Bronze Age, and found nothing to induce clarity. Thus, with fear and trembling, with the sickness unto death, I tremblingly take sanity in hand (and a sloppy endeavor it is, take my word for it), petard in cudgel, Hart Schaffner in Marx, Jade in Aries, and skull in duggery (1st Class, with epaulets) to ask ...

Whaddafuck you talkin' 'bout, dawwwg?

Yr. everlasting pal, and the only one whose signature on the release papers can lift the commitment order and spring you,

Harlan

So, what was it like working with Jean Arthur, Gary Cooper and Russell Hayden anyways?

- Barney Dannelke

Shamrock, PA.

Lil Washedwho, I was kidding about Harlan being God. A little humor bone on is needed.

----------------

Pleassse, everybody within the collective hive: DO NOTTT SEEE THE HORRIBLE FILM, PAYCHECK!

Caps off...

Shitty dialogue, lazy acting, no nudity from Uma. Phil Dick gets anal screwed from the grave. Pathetic hollywood bile from the worthless John Woo. Affleck is toast.

-----------------

Cindy, ok, here you go.

Best Right Wing Babe--Cindy. She yummy like hot fudge on a penguin corpse, right after the kill.

:-)

---------------------

My worst list:

Worst Album--Clay Aiken. Pathetic, wimpy bile. American Idol would make Stalin proud.

Worst Song--In Da Club, 50 Cent (fitty). Pathetic loser, with horrible rapping skills. No flow, no sense of style. Overrated by the critics and fans.

Worst Book--Ann Coulter, Treason. Should I explain?

Worst Fiction--Random Best Seller.

Worst Magazine--Rolling Stone. Once, subversive, hippy rag, now corporate MTV generation garbage. Except for the occasional good political stuff, awful fish wrap.

Worst essayist--Christopher Hitchens. How the mighty fall. Whiney, mean spirited bile. Imperialism smeared on our english muffins.

Worst Radio Company--Clear Channel

Worst Radio Host--Michael Savage. Fitty, do a driveby.

Worst Website--Drudge

Worst Television Show--All reality shows. The potential downfall of class and art in America.

Worst Comedian--Andrew "Dice" Clay

Worst Leftist Activist--Ramsey Clark

Worst Leftist Moment--The unfair swipes against Michael Moore.

Worst Harlan Ellison Moment--No Teevee appearances for 03. I tried Harlan.



Worst

Fans
The bad behavior is far from universal. There's also kindness, wit, and congeniality. The problem is that increased fame intensifies everything: the good AND the bad. For a guy like Stephen King or Alan Moore (both of whom have eschewed convention appearances), it's hard to find the joy in a room where EVERYBODY loves you so much they want to be next to you.

As for the bad behavior, it only takes one cup of hurled vomit to make everybody look bad (and had I known I would be obliged to write that sentence today, I would have stayed in bed.)

BEN:

>The behaviour of the majority of fans is usually guaranteed to turn any guest name into a certified asshole.<

I have no way of knowing if this is true or not. But it seems if it was, most "celebrities" would avoid these things like the plague, unless the money was very good, or their careers were really in the doldrums.

I suppose entertainers (like Takei) see it as part of their job to connnect with a live audience whenever possible. Writers (like Kevin Smith) maybe profit by exposure, or maybe they just like the groove.

I read Ellison's "Xenogenesis" which had a big section about fan-freaks at these conventions, and I had to ask myself, if it's this bad, if there really are people who toss cups of vomit at writers, why the hell go? Aren't book-signings at the local Borders, or Internet chat rooms like this one, enough contact with the loyal readership? There must be some positives that outweigh the scariness to keep these guys coming back. Maybe it's money, or maybe the majority of fans are not so bad after all.

Steve Dooner: please send me your phone number.

I love those flying monkeys.

Well you can still rock at 50. Alex Lifeson busted in Naples. Drunk and disorderly. Spat blood on the cop who knocked him down the stairs. Scott! How the mighty have fallen!
And who let this subversive Canadian into our fair land, anyway?

Steve Dooner: When telemarketers used to call, I would scream at them about anarchosynidcalism. They rarely made it passed the explanation of the 2/3rds majority vote needed on all ratifications of revised bylaws. It took a lot out of me, but it was worth it.

Frank: Great list. But Frank -- The White Stripes? Sounds like you need a Husker Du enema.

Have Fun,
Mark

FRANK,

Harlan isn't a 'God Among Men'. Deification of any kind is always a dangerous matter and should be approached with extreme caution. I prefer to think of Harlan as 'An Incredibly Well-Red Man Among Men.'

ERIC,

The primary reason I avoid fan conventions is the sheer impersonal nature of such events. The behaviour of the majority of fans is usually guaranteed to turn any guest name into a certified asshole. Then, of course, a fan returns to their sanctuary whinging to him/herself, "Wow, what an asshole!", and then spreading his/her ill-conceived judgement on the internet. Cecille B. Demille-sized web forum chats ringing with the cry of, "Wow, what an asshole!", are subsequently set in motion, the participants not caring to determine whether or not the aforementioned asshole actually remains an asshole outside of an insensitive environment like a fan convention. Bad vibes can spread faster than wildfire.

Plus, I've already got HE's autograph on my poster copy of I HAVE NO MOUTH AND I MUST SCREAM, so I'm a perfectly content man.

Stuff
Frank, I lived for a time in Franklin, OH, and once decided to try to bike to Cincinnati. The humidity and the blackflies nearly killed me. Never made it.

Steve Dooner, ever hear of Tom Mabe? He's a comedian who wages holy war on telemarketers. He has several recordings out ( http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B0000488RE/103-3788118-7170249?v=glance is one). I heard one bit where he answers the phone, tells the telemarketer to hold, opens his front door and "blows away" several carolers with a shotgun. Definitely worth a listen.

I'm a huge Rush fan. The Rush from Toronto, that is. You know, Tom Sawyer, etc. Turns out Alex Lifeson had a bit of a run-in with the police over new years. Rush is one of the more "squeaky-clean" bands out there. I'm sure it's all the police's fault, and that alcohol had absolutely nothing to do with the fracas.

Is this so wrong?

I now greet telemarketers by telling them a rapid fire version of the Wizard of Oz in exhaustive detail. I reference the film and the book in my retelling and even sing snippets of Yip Harburg tunes. After about two minutes, they usually hang up on the other end, and I have a great time performing the part of the Wizard, the witch, the flying monkeys, and the winkies. They usually laugh once they realize I'm completely insane, and this is a generally a humanizing moment for them.

One time, though, a fellow stayed on the line for ten minutes with me. So we had fun exploring the "gold standard/free silver" interpretations of the first book, and I even branched into a discussion of Tip and Ozma. Well, needless to say he still stayed on the line, so I began to explicate various lines from the screenplay in a Buddhist context, especially, "If you ever go looking for your own heart's desire, it's usually no further than your own back yard."

Well, still he hung on, so I shifted quickly to Alice and Wonderland and began to recite "Twinkle, Twinkle Little Bat," and I finally heard a soft, retreacting click as he finally hanged up the phone.

No I ask you, is this so wrong?

Steve Dooner

Frank?

What's this? I didn't make the list? I'm CRUSHED! CRUSHED, I tell you!
I thought I should have AT LEAST gotten the best of 3 losers in a Stephen King short film competition.

:)

I love your name. I think it's powerful and reverential. Frank Church-- what's not to embrace about a name like that?

Yer all to soon forgotten friend,
Cindy

There is a strange charm to Cincinnati that I cannot explain. Sure, it is reactionary and hateful (hell, even in LA they elected a uber boob for Governer), but it has its moments. There is a decent music scene and radical clique. You just have to know where to snif.

I have thought about moving. But where? Bushes puss follows me wherever I go.

---------------

My "best of" list for 2003:

Best movie--Mystic River
Best Actor--Tim Robbins
Best actress--Scarlett johanson.
Best Director--Clint Eastwood
Best Writer--Dennis Lahane (since it is his book they used)

Best Book--non-fiction--Hegemony Or Survival, Noam Chomsky
Best Fiction--Black House, Steven King, Peter Straub

Best Magazine essay--Harlan Ellison, Terrorists

Best essayist--Lewis Lapham

Best magazine--Z

Best website--Zmag.org

Best Online Host--Harlan Ellison

Best Pop/Rock Album--White Stripes, Elephant

Best R&B/Urban--Speakerboxxx/The Love Below, Outkast

Best Classical Symphonic--True Love Waits: Christopher O'Riley Plays Radiohead.

Best Jazz--loathe the new stuff.

Best all around musician--Prince

Best Female Singer--Bjork

Best Male Singer--Prince

Best Spoken Word Artist--Harlan Ellison

Best Curmudgeon--Harlan Ellison

God Among Men--Harlan Ellison

Most Hated Person Of 2003--Bush

Most Admiring--Noam Chomsky

Best Comedian--George Carlin

Best Television Show--Real Time With Bill Maher

Best Cable Station--C-Span

Worst Cable Station--Fox News.

Before holiday feelings fade inevitably back into business as usual, I’d like to add in my good wishes to Harlan and the Webderlanders for all the best in the New Year. Even before learning of the HERC and its ‘Rabbit Hole’ publication, I’d already associated my surprise at discovering Webderland with Alice’s tumble down the rabbit hole. This is such an impossible place! But with the type of people that are drawn to read an author like HE, with Rick’s light touch thread management skills and with Harlan’s sure and occasionally spectacular quality control moves, Webderland is maintained as a uniquely rewarding arena – for discovering and discussing a broader range of Ellison’s many works, for deepening and broadening one’s reading list, and for demonstrating that it’s really possible for a completely diverse collection of people and opinions to really get into it and stay productive – sometimes personal, but never mean-spirited or nasty.

I am aware of no other author of HE’s caliber and experience that takes the time to contact his fans in such a direct and engaging way. For all of this I am truly grateful.

Happy New Year, everybody.

conjecture...
Reading the works of Lyall Watson (an absolutely brilliant writer), I happened upon some information which I thought might spawn conversation.

In the fifties, the use of Progesterin to counteract miscarriage ranked a common medical practice. This chemical would often mutate into testosteron in the body of female patients prompting the growth of male genitalia or pseudo-genitalia. Even those for which the physical changes did not occur showed marked behavior alteration towards masculinity. Considering the time frame, could this common practice have promtped some of the social change which occured through-out the fifties and sixties?

Thoughts,... anyone.

Xenogenetics
My only exposure to craven fanitude was at the exactly two conventions I've been to in my life, both to buy old comics. The first time I saw a huge line waiting to get autographs from who turned out to be a pissed-off looking John DeLancie. Later it was announced that Kevin Smith was about to speak in the enormo-room, and the ensuing stampede to hear his pearls surely beat the final lifeboat grab on the Titanic.

The second time I decided to see what the fuss with C-grade celebrity was all about, so after walking by the main floor booths with Lou Ferrigno and the guy who played R2-D2, I came to a huge room that was filled to pouring with people. Craning my head in, I stayed long enough to hear George Takei talking on stage about his broken foot. Pass.

The food is also universally terrible at those places. Long live e-Bay.

20,000 Leagues
Chuck...

I just Googled "20,000 Leagues" the audio tape (somehow that sounds wrong) and it is out there. It can be (and should be) bought. This was a very nice effort by HE. (and JV, of course)

Rick

Harlan,

You read 20,000 Leagues? How cool. Is the recording still available? Was the text based on a decent translation? Come to think of it, do you read directly from the book when recording, or is it a typed manuscript?


And to all, a happy new year. New beginnings, clear horizons and a strong wind at your fantail to speed you to your desired destinations, one and all.

Chuck

reflections...
To the aptly named Mr. Church:
I am afraid my conversations with the Divine failed to pierce the topic of sectarianism. Such subjects, I fear, may limit each of us. Besides, my position is not to speak towards mine own faith, but to help others speak and seek towards theirs.

As for Cincinnati (on Lee's thread):
While I cannot speak for others, I find Cincinnati to possess the charm of a small town attempting to discern its metropolitan identity. Conservativism is, most certainly, prevalent, but so is its liberal counterpart and in far greater quantities than one might expect for a city its size.
While no L.A. or New York (who brandish their eccentricity past infliction), Cincinnati bears a rife historical culture, resplendent with museums architecture and theatre. For example, the Vatican exhibit chose only fours cities for its US travels: Cincinnati being one. Cincinnati spawned the only full, three year stage adaptation of LOTR, hosts the only Haufbrauhaus in the US, sites Corporate headquaters for GE, P&G, Chiquita and Slushy, bears a Jack Daniels factory, is the upcoming site for the Underground Railroad museum, the home of Charles Manson (who by any measure ranked far from conservative) and a caleidescope of other nuances. While not the brightest star of the midwest, Cincinnati certainly casts its own luminescence.
Have we Republicans?... in droves, as we do Liberals, sycophants, apathists, anarchists and meliorists. We are simply a city.
As a translplanted southerner, I chose carefully before relocating north and found fewer flaws with Cincinnati than most. But, as I said, this is simply mine own perspective.


And lastly, a question for Mr. Ellison:
Sir, if it be not overly personal, I should like to ask the following: What is your opinion on the state of civil liberty in the US. And what, if anything, may be done to doster its strength.


In kind sincerity,
jaimss

REPLY TO MARCI KISER

Aw boy. I was afraid one day someone would pop in with this query. You'll understand, I trust, if my response is less-than-specific.

Much time has passed since this pain in the ass surfaced. I'm not sure, in fact, that Norman Epstein hasn't even REsurfaced for a moment here and there over the years, under a different (or no) name, to cause some sophomoric annoyance. But as an active, ongoing-for-years nuisance with a nasty nasty virulent edge to his psychotic games, he was tracked, located, and knobbled. I became as obsessed about finding him as he was determined to make the life of a stranger--me--painful.

Yes, I did find him; and yes, I even spoke to him at his office in a New York borough; and yes, I took him down in a legal and non-violent way. Just to get him to leave me alone. I could have "interfered" with his life in a more severe manner, but once I found him, once he KNEW I'd found him, once he heard the tone in my voice, once he knew the arrogance and meanness provided by his anonymity was no longer accessible to him ... like all bullies and obsessed fanatics, he felt fear. Tables turned. The Damoclean Sword was hanging (excuse the purple theatrics, but it was the best metaphor I could think of quickly), and if I should ever again be troubled by him, in any smallest way that I could trace back to him FOR SURE, he knew I would not opt for amelioration again.

More than that, Marci, I would rather not say. Let (one presumes) sleeping dogs lie. I hope this suffices to close the loop for you.

Respectfully, Harlan Ellison

ALEJANDRO:

Thanks. Got a sealed reviewers' copy for about seven bucks. Looking forward to pleasure. Once again, thanks for your heads-up expertise.

Yr. pal, Harlan

Car 54 Where are You +Joe E Ross & BS Pully


Hello Harlan and HAPPY NEW YEAR to You and Susan and to EVERYONE HERE!!!

Thank You for answering my JSA questions. :) Just to let ya know LEONARD KIRK would LUV to work with you on a JSA mini if you ever or ANYTHING! He LUVS yer, BATMAN story you did with GENE COLAN years ago! Now that's Heart! :)

Anyway, I think we honestly have similar taste in humor (I am 38 years Young!) and I LUV CAR 54 WHERE ARE YOU. I am a fan of JOE E. ROSS, I think he is insane! I am also a fan of "risque" comedian BS PULLY. Every "hoods" fave comic! He was a bit player in '54 doing various parts (usually playing a HEAVY!) and he was in a Don Knotts movie, that I can't remember the title too. I was lucky one day in my travels to pick up a old vinyl record of his live act and let me tell ya...


I was ROLLING on the Floor!!!! I could see every thug and lowlife in town watching his act(talk about the streets being crime free for an hour!)great record. ANYWAY...


My question to YOU, Sir is where you a fan of the show and each individual mentioned here? Nat Hiken (creator of '54 and SGT. BILKO) was a GENIUS!!! I LOVED HIS HUMOR and sadly when that crappy Bilko movie w/ Steve Martin came out eons ago, I didn't even acknowledge it, sorry. I have too much respect for the cast of Bilko (the Original) and Mr. Hiken, to see that crap!

Thank you again for your time, trouble and for COMING HERE to US, the People.



HAPPY & SAFE NEW YEAR AGAIN to ALL

CHEERS!


Jorge.

To Unca Harlan and all my fellow Webderlanders who grace this Art Deco Dining Pavilion, a New Year's wish from me: Peace.

Walshy

A happy new year to all of you, and thanks for giving me such witty, thoughtful, erudite reading material. A fine collection of minds entirely.

Xenogenesis and Norman Epstein
Harlan,

As a huge fan of your work, I nevertheless feel let down by the lack of follow-up to your promised revenge. Now, I'm sure you've promised many revenges, but the one I'm referring to was made famous by your essay 'Xenogenesis', in which you promise something very terrible to happen to one Norman Epstein.

Assuming all statutes of limitations have expired, could you update us on this matter?

The Many Moods of Frank

Frank :

I think Frank is a wonderfully subtle name.

You can dissemble while speaking Frankly, after saying frankly, ‘May I be Frank with you?’

There’s something masculine and vaguely phallic about it, perhaps because of its close relationship with ‘frankfurter’. It also embodies the very spirit of European barbarism, mayhem and high culture, having descended intact from the Franks, who we all know eventually became French, launched the first crusade under Urban II, plundered Arabia, inspired jihad and invented cheese.

The only thing I can’t figure out is how someone like you ended up in Cincinatti.

I did a four month research gig in Cincinatti - with P&G at their Winton Hill technical facility. I specialized in toilet paper. What are the key variables driving human perception of softness in toilet paper? I could tell you if I wanted to, but I must honor the confidentiality agreement. Do you wipe to the front or to the back, standing up or sitting down? Trust me, P&G knows you better than your Freudian analyst ever will. I tried desperately to be a good little proctoid, but in the end they all knew I was different, not least when I refused to wear a company distributed parrot head to the company approved Jimmy Buffet outing – where all the corporate depressed white middle-aged closet alcoholics go to get crazy singing boozy off-key renditions of ‘Margaritaville’ while upper-management looks on with approval.
The thought of working for a company like that was like hugging death, yet in true Orwellian fashion I can’t help but admire them and genuinely LOVE their products. I’ve sold my soul for Pampers. Maybe my P&G experience colored my view of Cincinatti itself, but I can’t think of any more conservative place in America, maybe in the universe. How can a Unitarian libertarian socialist get along there without imploding from environmentally imposed irritation?

Harlan:

You see why I must make sure that I proofread my messages before I press the damn send button? It is "Piano jondo" which is a play of words on "Cante jondo" which is that despairing, sad and yet, joyful style of singing so characteristic of flamenco.

Yep, "Piano jondo". A beauty of an album it is.

Alejandro

HAPPY 2004, ONE AND ALL!

(Otherwise known as : "Harlan Ellison's still alive?! Holy crap! Nothing can kill that sonovabitch!")

Sentimentality Interlude

How sobering on days like December 31, that history can only look in one direction. As the litany of lists and tributes roll out to all those we lost in 2003, how warming it would be to hear, alongside: singer/songwriter Jamie Greene was born this year... Val Brown, architect of “Val’s Peace,” was born this year... writer Sam Black was born... Jesse Bradbury, first person to walk on Mars, was born... gold-medal athlete Kelly White was born this year... Chris Jones, whose medical breakthroughs will lead to the eradication of AIDS...

You get the idea. Have a safe and happy 2004, all.

ALEJANDRO:

Do you mean "Piano Jondo"? I can't locate a "Cante Jondo" by ANYONE, including Diego Amador; but there IS a "Piano Jondo" by Amador. Please clarify, if possible.

Happy New Year, kiddo.

Harlan

***That's " Waist " dumbass. Not " waste ".

REPLY TO DUANE SWIERCZYNSKI

Sir:

You ask if I have any thoughts about James Warren.

Yes. Plenty.

Respectfully, Harlan Ellison

New Year
Another year, another gray hair. (Yeah, sure, I WISH I had only 43 gray hairs).

Todd's 2004 New Year Resolutions
---------------------------
* Stop beating my wife

* Vote for the Democratic Presidential candidate, even if it's Hillary.

* Read one Romance 'novel' a week to improve my sensitivity toward the opposite sex.

* Watch one male pornography video a week to improve my sensitivity toward the same sex.

* Re-read what I write on this board and in my work emails prior to hitting SEND to eliminate all typing-faster-than-I-think or thinking-faster-than-I-type typos.

* Stop eating my beloved pizza, Funyuns, Triscuits and garlic cheese bagels in order to drop two more sizes in my waste.

* Lie through my fucking teeth!

Happy New Year everyone!

-TODD

Could NOT find a New Years toast I wasn't tired of so I'm throwing this one into the cyber-wind...

May those who love us, love us
And those that don't love us,
May God turn their hearts,
And if he doesn't turn their hearts,
May he turn their ankles
So we'll know them by their limping.

**********************************

Chinese: Ganbei! (dry your cup)
Dutch: Prost! (health)
English: Cheers!
French: Santé! (health)
German: Prost! (cheers)
Hebrew: Le'chaim! (to life)
Irish: Sláinte! (to your health)
Italian: Per cent'anni! (for one hundred years)
Italian 2: Salute (health)
Japanese: Kanpai! (dry your cup)
Russian: Vashe zdorovie! (to health)
Spanish: Salud! (health)
Welsh: Iechyd da! (health)

Happy New Year folks - Barney

More.
What's new?

Is it just me, or does anyone else think Harlan could make a monumental 'Book-on-Tape' of I AM LEGEND? Could anything be more INSANELY cool?

Well...all right. Maybe THE MASTER AND MARGARITA.

I think I will change my name legally to Alejandro. I like how it musically rolls off the tongue. Frank is just so, so, sign on the dotted line.

Frank, Frank, Frank. It is like an abrupt slap in the chops. But I'd say that suits me.

-----------

Happy New Year ya fucking nutjobs. 2004, I promise to come out of my shell.

Science Fiction Museum
Harlan,

I drop in here occasionally so forgive (and ignore) me if you've already discussed this and I missed it. I read that you're involved in Paul Allen's Science Fiction museum in Seattle. You're on the advisory committee? I think that's what I read. I was wondering if you can tell us anything about what you're doing -- anything about the project whatsoever.

Thanks & happy new year,

Adam

HARLAN: It has been a genuine honor to have had a few chances to trade words with you over the past year in the Pavilion. I know I will always remember these exchanges as a great privilege granted to me by this internet technology and by your grace.

Happy New Year!

Steven Dooner

The criminal mind of a poor speller…
…or how to violate the single posting rule without even trying

That line should have read "a perfect combination of flamenco, jazz and classical music". And it's heard not "hears".

Drats. Now watch me send this message without proofreading the same.

Alejandro

Harlan:

Thanks for your response. Frankly, I was never quite a big fan of the Books on Tape medium because, call me old-fashioned if you will, I much rather flip the pages of a book and imagine the author's voice softly murmuring in my brain…if that makes any sense.

Anyways, that changed three years when I hears you read Ben Bova's "City of Darkness" and Jules Verne's "20,000 Leagues Under the Sea" and I realized how a good dramatic reading, done expertly, can change and improve on one's perception of the story. That "Books on Tape", when done well and with flair, returns literature to its oral tradition. The same goes for Neil Gaiman. I am now listening to his reading of "Coraline" and it feels like I am reading the book for the second time. In fact, I did not realize how truly funny and terrying the book is until I started listening to the tapes.

Oh, by the by, another quick musical recommendation. I just received a copy of Diego Amador's "Cante jondo". Diego, alongside the great jazz pianist Chano Dominguez, is at the forefront of a new movement in Spain that is successfully melding the sounds of jazz and flamenco. But "Cante jondo" is an entirely different beast, though: a perfect combination of flamenco, jazz, from a self-taught musician whose playing evokes some of the best jazz pianists in the universe and yet so full of duende, flamenco's answer to Brazil's "saudade". As luck would have it, Diego is performing in Chicago on January 16. I do not know if his Chicago presentation is art of a U.S. tour, or if it is only exclusive to our fair and windy city but keep your eyes and ears peeled for this young man.

Alejandro

A question for Harlan about Jim Warren
Hi, Harlan--

I'm writing a profile of Jim Warren for Philadelphia Magazine (as you probably know, he's a native Philly kid), and was wondering if you had any thoughts on Jim or his magazines that you wouldn't mind being including in the article.

I know your involvement with the Warren mags goes back to at least "Rock God"--an amazing adaptation that I first read in your DREAM CORRIDOR series--and Jim cites you as one of the people he admires most on this planet. I'd love to hear what you think about the Warren Empire, all of these years later.

(I'm a child of a Warren Magazine junkie--my dad, who's now 54, used to snap up every issue of FAMOUS MONSTERS he could find, and passed along that love of the macabre on to me. So in a way, it's like writing a profile about a long-lost relative.)

Thanks in advance for your time; and Happy New Year to you.

Best,

Duane Swierczynski
duane.swier@verizon.net

REPLY TO ALEJANDRO

Good to have you back, asai.

Reading stories aloud is one of my deepest pleasures. I glory in it. And it comes so easily to me, that I can go before the microphone cold and do a good job. I never rehearse. I hit the studio, Stefan gives me the material, and I boogie. Admittedly, it's easier with material that I've written, but in truth, it makes no difference. I dive in, find my "voice" in a word or two, at most within a sentence, and I AM that character till the end of the reading. I don't want my interpretations to sound as if I'm "reading." I try to project an ambience that sounds as if I were TELLING you the story face to face, without that air of distance and formality one encounters on so many spoken word presentations. I never put on that affected BBC stiff-voiced "I am declaring thoughts of immortal importance" tone or manner that makes a listener feel he's in study hall, rather than under a tree in the Spring sunlight, as one listening with Geoffrey Chaucer, hearing him savor his poems for pleasure. Apparently, I have an affinity for the form, likely having absorbed the m.o. from hearing what you folks would call "old time" or "Golden Age" radio. QUIET PLEASE, Orson Welles as THE SHADOW, even Jack Webb doing the radioplays of Richard L. Breen. There is an ease, a silken quality, to the voices and familiarity of those men and women that I have always tried to emulate.

Beyond those self-observations, Alejandro, I think you should ask Stefan Rudnicki, when he surfaces here next month. He has worked with the best and the ultra-best, and his observations about me and my approach to spoken word will, I think, address your curiosity much more cogently.

Again, happy new year, and good to hear from you.

Yr. pal, Harlan Ellison (The Simon Bolivar of the Short White Ohio Juden)

When I was 15, my mom found my copy of Dangerous Visions. She somehow flipped over to the Harlan Ellison sequel to Robert Bloch's Jack the Ripper story ("[something] city at the edge of the world" (?) -- it's been a while!) and read about the, ahem, relations between the old man and his grand daughter ("I miss the little twit. She was a good fukc"). To say she hit the roof would be an understatement.

My parents never put any restrictions on my reading, luckily, but I did learn to keep certain books well hidden after that little episode.

Frank said "'How's the Night Life on Cissalda?' Hell, nothing funnier than that story. I almost pee myself everytime. Explicit as hell. Good going Harlan. Was that story ever censored?"

Yes, Frank, by my aunt. She used to take my brother and I book-shopping for our Christmas presents when we were teenagers. Then she'd take what we'd selected, wrap 'em and give them to us on Christmas Day. Alas, her glance at "Cissalda" in the Ellison collection I'd picked ass one of my books meant that I never got that one on Christmas Day, so I had to buy it myself in January. I imagine the other copy of the collection is still somewhere in her house.

Hey, how was I supposed to know that out of all the books, she'd pick up that one and immediately turn to "Cissalda"?

Happy New Year's Eve Eve,

Jon

"How's the Night Life on Cissalda?"

Hell, nothing funnier than that story. I almost pee myself everytime. Explicit as hell. Good going Harlan. Was that story ever censored?

------------------

Lenny Bruce was a hero for the First Amendment; at least more than the farce of Larry Flynt.

I would say his reading of the transcripts from his trial was a form of free form theatre.

-------------

Jello Biafra has a deal with a major distributer for his spoken words; that is why his stuff is in mainstream stores. Major's control the distribution chain, for the most part.

Some call Jello a sell-out for his deal, but you have to get the cds to fans some way.

Chomsky is more of a mystery.

------------

A Reverend in Cincinnati? You a fellow Unitarian?

-----------

Mud slides in Cali? Killer earthquake in Iran? God seems to be the real mass murderer.

REPLY TO JORGE GALVAN

Geoff was reporting accurately. I had a lovely little Dr. Fate story to tell, but unfortunately when Peter Tomasi (a very canny dude and an excellent, most excellent, editor) contacted me to do the job, and I accepted ... I was, again unfortunately ... in the middle of a very tough editing gig for The Modern Library, and as events would have it, I simply couldn't get a break to pen the Dr. Fate. So it went into the TO DO file.

Now the book for The Modern Library is out -- JACQUES FUTRELLE'S "THINKING MACHINE" STORIES -- and I'm doing a mini-series for DC. When the time is available, I hope to do a complete, multi-story JSA book.

Thank you for asking. Harlan

My unsolicited suggestion for Vol.3: Neither Your Jenny Nor Mine.

B rn ey

Sou ds gre t I’d wr te more but my keybo rd shorted out whe I st rted drooli g o the keys.

Dept. of passing on the turkey or,
...kickin' the holidays goyim style at Casa Dannelke.

Sure I offer this to boast, but whatever our differences, instead of bitching about politics, since we all have to eat I offer the Dannelke groaning board last week and one free recipe.
In the spirit of inclusivity I invite everybody - Christians, Jews, Muslims, Scientologists and atheists to ante up. Susan?

Other than some shopping and carting things up and down stairs and washing some dishes I had NO part in the prep but here was my holiday dinner for 10 with leftovers for the 2nd shift who came between 8PM and 2AM...

Lenora composed this part because my brain could only remember about half of the ingrediants which is tragic considering I could tell you who drew and inked the first 200 issus of Spiderman...

Christmas Dinner 2003

Phyllo cups baked with sun-dried tomato cheese, bacon and cilantro
Homemade pate served with raisin pecan bread
Baked coconut curried crab spread on sourdough rounds

Garlic and herb rubbed beef tenderloin
Caramelized red onions glazed with a balsamic reduction
Creamy horseradish sauce with chives
Sweet potato and pumpkin casserole with crunchy pecan topping
Dried corn baked in cream
Lemon pepper baby peas
Roasted garlic smashed potatoes
Stollen, honey milk and whole grain rolls with sweet butter

Apple cranberry tart with whipped cream
Bevy of Christmas cookies
Coffee

and the free recipe is;

Curried Coconut Crab

I never measure anything and constantly experiment. Freestyling is more than half the fun of cooking – but here is the general idea:

Sweet onion, chopped
Red bell pepper, chopped
Green bell pepper, chopped
Minced garlic
Extra heat option: Thai peppers, chopped fine
Olive oil
Butter
Lump crab meat
Coconut milk (not cream of coconut)
Curry powder, to taste and heat preference
Optional spices: fresh grated nutmeg, thyme, cumin, ground coriander, etc.
Cream cheese

Saute vegetables gently in a small amount of oil and butter. Add spices, then crab. Stir in enough coconut milk to make mixture very moist. Stir in cream cheese to form a thick mélange. Thin with more coconut milk or heavy cream if desired. If desired, turn into greased casserole and bake at 350 until brown and bubbly. Spread on bread or crackers.

- Barney and Lenora [wishing everybody a Happy New Year]

Now this is taking book and magazine collecting a bit too far...buy the man a shelf!

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/local/story/150493p-132648c.html

Click back to the main page of the NY Daily News website after reading the story for a photo.

-TODD

Urged for Audio
"How's the Night Life on Cissalda?"

"The Three Most Important Things in Life" (or whatever tis called - you know the reference)

"Djinn, No Chaser"

It's like Sophie's Choice with words!!!
I'm NOT getting greedy. The ISLETS response has thourougly made my day. I just know that's gonna be a kicker. But i wanted to second a few of Dorman's nominations.

"The Deathbird" - in my case for the Twain connection but it doesn't need my help.
"Daniel White For the Greater Good" - Although, I have to confess I haven't read this in 20 years and it may not have aged well. Certainly an eye-opener the first time I read it
"Goodbye to All That" - This one keeps climbing up the pantheon with each re-reading. Four times now.

and one more - ALL THE BIRDS COME HOME TO ROOST. But that may be like asking someone to give themselves a paper cut for my amusement. Still, the 1978 West Virginia reading ranks as one of the three best public readings I ever saw Harlan do and that's out of perhaps 75 public readings.

- Barney

ps. Harlan - I did a reading of Twain's A DOG'S TALE in my local coffee shop this summer. Tears? Like shooting fish in a barrel.

COMICS


Hi Harlan: I am a HUGE FAN and I have two questions, Geoff Johns told me a while back you were to have written the DR FATE back up intended for the issue of JSA ALL-STARS, what happened?

Also how is the progress on the mini you are doing for Pete Tomasi, the one I read about in Comic Buyers Guide?

Thank you for your time.


Jorge Galvan.

Harlan:

Well, haven't posted in a long time (reporting, editing and coordinating for a newly established daily has taken its toll on me, although I haven't stopped visiting the site) but this talk about audio tapes just peeked my interest.

More than the marketing and distribution dynamics of the medium I am really intrigued about the actual production of an audio tape. Particularly, how much pre-production do you do before going into the studio? Do you rehearse at all at home? How much direction do you take from sound engineers and producers?

Yeah, I know everybody likes to talk about the marketing, selling and what-not. But I am old fashioned film student. I am more interested in the nitty gritty which I always find enhancs the magic more than detract from it.

Alejandro

good wishes...
While my intimacies with Mr. Schwartz are markd only with inky fingers, I should like to extend my best wishes towards properous health and swift recovery.

courtesy...
Kind of you to flatter in such way, but I think you exaggerate my abilities, especially considering our company.

Yes, "James" is the proper voicing. The spelling is some obscure vowel-consonant conjugation plucked from antiquity in my youth; six, if memory serves, but it is a "poor sort of memory that only works backwards" as Lewis Carroll said.

If I may ask, to whom do I have the pleasure of thanking for such compliments?

Spoke to Stefan Rudnicki, my audio producer. He's in Saint Louis, recording an album. He'll be back in LA on the 10th. At that time he'll drop by and address the murky particulars of audiocassette, and spoken word CD, merchandising, marketing, promotion, availability, and the general state of the genre.

Spoke to Julie Schwartz today. He's recuperating well; having dinner out at a restaurant with family tonight. So, for now, the scary time is past.

Harlan

What eloquent writing! But is that pronounced "James"? Just curious.

HARLAN: Since you're taking requests fo Edgeworks III, how about recording "Objects of Desire in the Mirror Are Closer Than They Appear," "The Deathbird," "Working With the Little People," "Daniel White For the Greater Good," "Mephisto In Onyx," "Goodbye to All That" and..."Skylark."

Happy New Year to you and the always lovely Susan,
Dorman T. Shindler (bet you thought the middle initial stood for trustworthy -- now you know it doesn't -- for a hint, see the address above).

Many thanks to you, sir, for your prompt response. Rumors are pernicious beasts.

As for the lineage of such items: I tend to focus on the writing, not the man. Subtext of character bears its own malice to literature. I shall not intertwine life out of context as some critics are wont to do. Let the words speak, I say, and enjoy the work of its own merit. In my opinion, you thus see the man in greater detail.

One quote in particular brought excessive admiration. If I recall properly: "I am desperately afraid I shall die before I have written all the stories in me." For my part, that is how I see you.

Many pleasant returns to you and yours, Mr. Ellison.


In kind sincerity,
Rev. Jaimss R. Carpenter

BARNEY: I haven't even selected what I'll do on Volume 3, but I
promise I'll include "Islets of Langerhans," just to keep you from turning into a were-nuhdj.

Both VOICE FROM THE EDGE audios come in cassette and CD format, folks. For those of you who asked this and allied questions. At least, they were produced in both formats, because I have copies of each. Whether they're still available in both is a matter of distribution and your personal perseverance in forcing B&N or Borders or Amazon or whoever to order it for you and to GET IT for you. You must assert yourself, stay on them, and if you wind up with a Taco Bell-reject as a clerk, ask for the manager, or the Executive Potentate or someone who gives a shit.

I would try to explain for you the vicissitudes of spoken word marketing and distribution, but it is all arcane to me, no matter how many times it's explained. Perhaps I'll nuhdz my producer, Stefan Rudnicki, who has been in this game for donkey's years, to come in here and explain it once and for all so Rick can archive it for the inevitable four hundred times this question will again be asked.

Otherwise, happy new year.

Yr. pal, Blind Lightnin' Ellison, the Voice of the Delta

REV. CARPENTER:

That story is one of, oh, maybe thirty or so I've written "in public" over the last, oh, maybe forty years. It was, indeed, written in front of passersby and afficionados, in the front window of a bookstore in the French Quarter, in N'walins. Anyone who bought $25 worth of books that day, was given a free photocopy of the story, signed by me.

I'm surprised you didn't know the authenticity of the provenance of that manuscript. But now you do.

Yr. pal, Harlan Ellison

Arnold and Christmas
Speaking of the gifting season.

I got a dvd from loved ones who did not know what else to get me. Girlfriend told them I like scifi movies (what are scifi movies anyway?, so they gifted me with a turd called "Total Recall" (bless their hearts). All I really have to say about this film is that "Kindergarten Cop" should not have been a better movie than "Total Recall", and why the hell did that Piers Anthony person novelize a bad script of an otherwise ok Philip K. Dick story? How the hell does that happen? Anyone? Or has this topic been rehashed already?


Rick

Volume III
Another option: be like Britney, and include a cover of a classic story in the genre. Maybe something by Bradbury, Silverberg, even Poe...

Adam-Troy Castro,
The book which you saw is more than likely The Trials of Lenny Bruce: The Fall and Rise of an American Icon. Good read and the CD alone is worth the price of admission.

Also, to butt in regarding Joseph Haines contention that Lenny Bruce wasn't too hip when it came to the legal system and the rebuttal of HE who knew the man, the above mentioned book DOES imply and, at times, indicate that Bruce was not a hep-cat with the legal system. Now, the book was written by a couple of lawyers so it's quite possible that they have the same attitude towards clients as Bruce's lawyers did: the client needs to shut up and we'll do the lawyering. But, the impression I got when I read it is that Bruce was more of a hindrance than a help in his own case.

I say that not to besmirch the man, but to indicate where someone may have come up with the idea that Bruce wasn't too familiar with the law. (Though, again as HE points out, that stand up routine---the only one available on video, I believe---does show how Bruce did know some of the finer points of his predicament.)

4 decades of requests
*** Harlan *** Volume III, eh? Well, I believe I have requested this at least once in each of the last 3 decades - 70's through the 90's and here we go again for the oughts - "Adrift Just Off the Islets of Langerhans..."

I know it doesn't lend itself to a public reading but I would dearly love to hear you read this story some day. There was a time where I would have wheedled for you to read EVERY one of your stories, and after hearing what you brought to Tired Old Man and Rat Hater I still think the oral/aural tradition could do far worse. But THAT story really needs and deserves a preserved reading. It may not have been a greatest hit for your readers, [I'm not sure how that stuff gets gauged with so many stories out there] but you've showcased it enough that I KNOW you know what you have there. C'mon, make an aging fanboy happy.

- Barney Dannelke

VOLUME III !!!

HARLAN: I am thrilled that volume III is coming out. Will it include either your previous audio version or a new performance of "On the Downhill Side"? I would love a CD version of that story.

Steve Dooner

Collectibles...
Sorry to interupt the flow of Bruce and Jesus with so trite an inquiry, but I have a question for you Mr. Ellsion.

Some twelve years past I received a manuscript of Jane Doe #112. The story given to me spoke of a New Orleans window and a rather vagrant display of writing bravado (not an uncommon association with you). This story has never been authenticated, nor has the manuscript (which bears your autograph). So, I ask your assistance in knowing if this be fabrication or if the pages in question are what they proclaim.

Many thanks, in advance, for your answer.


Yours in kind,
Rev. Jaimss R. Carpenter

Bruce, Rose Bowls and Falling Girders
Ah, the joy of Lenny Bruce--especially in my college years. I matriculated just when the Firesign boys were losing their popular status to two doofuses named Cheech and Bong or something along those lines (okay, okay, I know it's Chong), who thought that saying, "Goddamn, I am really high" was the height of hilarity. I'd sit down with two hours of Bruce on vinyl, while my buddies got steadily more stoned to the accompaniment of the two professional stoners. The man was a lifesaver. Getting anybody else to listen to him--that was the problem. These days, he's remembered primarily for breaking down the profanity barriers, and that's unfair. He broke down the barriers between comedy and rapping, between humor and challenging the system. They fucked him for it.

I'm in L.A. this week. Saw David Gerrold the other night, and spent today helping to decorate a gigantic dragon float for the Rose Bowl parade. I must say, it beats Cleveland--even if a girder did fall on another worker just as we were leaving this evening.

Hey, Harlan, nice town you got here.

HARLAN: Um. Audiocassette? I got a lot of giftie certifties to Barnes & Noble this holiday, so I was planning a minor orgy of purchasing. One of the things I intended to buy was I HAVE NO MOUTH ... the recordings. B&N's website has Volume 1 both in audiocassette and CD format. Now, B&N's website is not the trustiest of internet storefronts, so if this is a mistake on their part, I'd really like to know, as I'd much prefer to buy this on CD.

Re Harlan's CDs. Harlan, I have a dumb question. I've seen a lot of "spoken word" recordings in the stores over the past few years, with people like Jello Biafra and William S. Burroughs and Noam Chomsky managing to have several titles available. But, I've never seen your recordings in record stores, and I was wondering if that was due to a) shitty distribution or b) your own choice. (I know it ain't polite to tell a writer that one can't find his stuff in stores. But it occurred to me that you may have a personal/business reason for this, and so I thought I'd ask about it.)

VOLUME THREE!!!!!!!!

Yipee-Ki-Yay, muthufuggah.

Looking forward to it. Will we get to hear your singing voice, Harlan? I've heard of it, but never heard it.

Chuck

BRANDON:

No "sequel" yet, but there IS an audiocassette album that preceded your MIDNIGHT IN THE SUNKEN CATHEDRAL. Volume One is I HAVE NO MOUTH, AND I MUST SCREAM. All different stories than those recorded on Volume Two.

Volume Three -- as yet untitled -- will be coming in the new year.

I'm pleased you enjoyed MIDNIGHT.

All best wishes, Harlan Ellison

Between The DaVinci Code and the Time magazine article on Gnosticism, I think someone should get the lucrative contract for Gnosticism for Dummies ASAP. Anyone in here got the credentials?

Cheers, Jon

Midnight in the Sunken Cathedral CDs...
Harlan,

Just wanted to say I've thoroughly enjoyed the CD versions of you reading some of your best stories, a very useful Chanukah present for the long inter-family drives. Many thanks for all the words.

Hope to see a sequel!

Do I get a commission for this?

As I stopped by the local Borders tonight for my weekly magazine fix, what to my wandering eyes of indeterminate color appeared? A copy of JACQUES FUTRELLE'S "THE THINKING MACHINE", edited (and with an introduction) by one Harlan Ellison. Let me tell ya, I plucked it from the shelf so fast, I'm surprised the vacuum in its wake didn't create a sonic boom. Congratulations, Harlan, and here's hoping the next time we see your name next to the Modern Library Classics imprint, it's not as the editor, but as the main author. (An edition of DEATHBIRD STORIES would be especially sweet.)

Jon

"Unh, Rob (or 'Mr. Sensitive'), I didn't refer to you by name, and I wasn't alluding to anything you'd written".

Yeah, I know. I was "channeling".

The DaVinci Code
FYI: Ron Howard is slated to direct the film version of The DaVinci Code. No casting has yet been announced.

Harlan: Great news about Mr. Schwartz. Do you happen to know how Stephen King is doing? I know he had pneumonia severely enough to be hospitalized for it after he received his award in November, but haven't heard much since. He's had a tough run, with the accident, the eye problems, and now this. Hope he's doing OK.

PAB

"The DaVinci Code" -- Sneaky Subversion?
Steve (and everyone),

This week, I just finished reading "The DaVinci Code," by Dan Brown, and wanted to touch on something that astounds me: this current #1 best seller has succeeded, in the guise of popular fiction, to disseminate to a wide U.S. audience some pretty earthshaking ideas about the early Christian Church -- and frankly, I'm amazed that there hasn't been more uproar over this book from the Christian Right (and also the Catholic Church, which gets slammed pretty hard in it.) Although the ideas in the book have been floating around for years (the Knights Templar/"Holy Blood, Holy Grail" conspiracy theories), the fact that this book has popularized them to a wide audience amazes me.

Now, I didn't think the book overall was particularly well-written (it's got a breathless quality that screams "future movie script," and it has sentences that made me cringe), but Brown has succeeded in doing something surprisingly subversive: he's educated people to the notion that the early Christian Church was largely a creation of the pagan Roman Emperor Constantine; that the "Bible" revered today is a heavily-edited series of books which reflect the prejudices and political agendas of the "editors"; that the "accepted" Gospels are but a small portion of a much larger series (see the Dead Sea Scrolls and Nag Hammadi documents), some of which flatly contradict the others or else offer strikingly different views of Jesus's life; that the notion of Jesus's divinity was literally decided by a committee vote led by Constantine as a political ploy; that Jesus almost certainly was married to Mary Magdalene (slandered as a prostitute), and they probably had offspring, and that the early Christian Church essentially edited out the concept of "the divine feminine" from church doctrine, in favor of a strongly hierarchical, male-dominated institution.

Weirdly (and recursively) enough, the "The DaVinci Code" seems to have succeeded (in the real world) in becoming the very notion of "the Grail" (i.e., "salvation through examination of the inner self, or Gnosis") that it discusses in its fictional milieu. Recent news magazines such as Time and others have now focused on the Gnostic Gospels, the story of women in the Bible, the inherent Jewishness of Jesus, and a variety of other topics that would've seemed utterly heretical and blasphemous to most mainstream Christians just a few decades ago. In addition, this "trend" towards examining the roots of the early Christian Church and finding a way out of nasty "Falwell-flavored fundamentalism" seems to be spreading -- books on the "hidden" Gospels and Gnosticism are, right now, among the top-selling books on Amazon.

Anyway, I just thought I'd toss out this observation. Dan Brown, intentionally or otherwise, seems to have struck a telling blow against fundamentalist Christian dogmatism in favor of a more introspective -- one might say "Buddhist" -- flavor of Gnostic Christianity, and it's amazing to see.

-- Jon

Unh, Rob (or 'Mr. Sensitive'), I didn't refer to you by name, and I wasn't alluding to anything you'd written.

Cheers, Jon

JOSEPH HAINES:

No apology necessary. We're cool.

All best to you and Webderlanders all,

Harlan

A LAST REMARK ON THE NEW TESTAMENT: After my last two posts on the embedded anti-semitism in the New Testament, I should be gracious enough to acknowledge that there is some extraordinary beauty in parts of that book. Clearly, there is a reason why this philosophy, which sprang out of the Proverb and Wisdom Tradition of Judaism, caught on with the Gentiles in Europe. Though I have already been careful to list the books that addressed the prejudice in the Gospels, there are some great books out there that parallel the parables of the New Testament with those of the Talmudic tradition or that see Jesus as a Jewish theologian with a very defiant and spiritually uplifting message for the poor people of Judea. Also, the dancing Christ at the Wedding feast of Caina always struck me as having direct links to Martin Buber's great book, The Tales of the Hacidim. I also love the Sermon on the Mount as poetry and as a sort of Platonic exploration of the Law. (What is Bobby McFerrin's "Don't Worry. Be Happy." but a perfect distillation of the Sermon on the Mount). I AM NOT DOWN on the whole New Testament; I just prefer to be honest about it, and I certainly don't want people to reject the best parts of their traditions. I say all this because I know that there people with good hearts here in the pavilion and that they practice their respective faiths for the best reasons. Even I, the reprobate atheist that I am, can see that.

ROB: Sorry about referencing your name in that response. I know you were only the responding party in that discourse. I didn't mean to suggest otherwise.

ON LENNY BRUCE: Have any of these Lenny critics actually listened to Live at the Curran Theater? If they had they would have heard a Lenny Bruce who was much as Harlan describes him. My old Vinyl records are long worn out, so I've got the CD reisue playing right now. After not having heard these records in several years, I am amazed that it is still more interesting and edgier that 99% of the comedy today.

HARLAN: Have you ever listened to the vocals of Jean Sablon with Django?

I'd include Chris Rock in the group of comedians that provided valuable social criticism then dissapeared into the media mass. His 'Bring the Pain' standup had some terrific social commentary.

Sam Kinison also did good stuff. I'ts a pity he died so young.

Dangerous Comedians
I saw a trade paperback, recently, that was supposed to be a history of Bruce's trials and tribulations, and which came with a CD of his routines and (I think) some of the news coverage and some recordings of the trials secretly made by Bruce. What with one thing or another, I never picked it up.

So-called dangerous comedians are a vanishing, if not already extinct, breed in this frightened age, when everybody just seems to want a family sitcom. Pryor's too sick to perform; the late, great, epically caustic Bill Hicks succumbed to the cancer that wouldn't keep him off stage; Richard Belzer, who hit those heights once in a while, seems permanently munched; Bobcat Goldthwait, who could be a true subversive on stage, was rendered just annoying by his movie appearances; and even George Carlin seems to disappear into his metaphorical shell for years at a time, becoming "safe" until something sufficiently pisses him off. (When he's pissed off, as he was post-9-11, he's one of the best, but he's not always pissed off. Then it becomes dog and cat stories.) Hicks was the last guy I'd put in Bruce's class.

"He was, and is, and will always be, a great icon of free speech, an incredibly clever entertainer, a good guy, a stand-up friend, and in the true spirit of Thoreau and Dreyfuss".

The Law in its day, challenging religion, and persecution...

You know, there’s a startling irony in these juxtaposed threads about Jesus and Lenny Bruce.

Jon,

(Turning back a day) "Look out, Steve. You just said something rational about the imaginary right and left in the US".

Steve’s digression was a rational one and I concur entirely; but it was still a digression. I made no reference to any party, Republican or Democrat. So, I couldn’t see what relevance Steve’s comments (or yours) had to mine. I make this point only because of the way my good name - in all its purity - was paired with Todd’s. Personally, I think the myths emerge from semantics that soive only qua a superficial invective hurled at anyone who dares mention reform or charity. It doesn’t take a helluva lot to be labeled "Left"; just common sense.

How's that for an objective pov?

BILL: Being as the articles which were made into HOW TO TALK DIRTY ... originally appeared in Playboy--on deadline--I had always believed that most if not all of it was ghosted-slash-"as-told-to"'d by Harlan.

But read the book. You'll love it. I think I've probably bought twenty or more copies of that book in the last seven or eight years to give away to people. In fact, one year, all of my close friends received the book in addition to their regular holiday gifts.

It's interesting to see how we have used and perceived Lenny in the years since his death. Since he wasn't the sort of comic to make record after record, since club recordings then simply weren't up to the standards we're used to now, since his work and rep were too caustic to garner him talk show appearances, and since much of his humor was very much of a time, we've precious little--in comparison to other artists--of his actual work available to us these days.

And so, sadly, the perception has become the legend. There are books aplenty--most notoriously, Albert Goldman's hackjob--to be had, we can rent Bob Fosse's LENNY (which is disdained by a great many Bruce purists, but which I rather like--understanding that it is not straight biography, but rather, a way for Fosse to dig out a part of himself and view it using Lenny as a microscope), we can see Bogosian or Pryor or Carlin or Hicks and nod that he is "just like Lenny."
Even Sam Kinison--promising but ultimately disappointing Brother Sam--struck up a deep friendship with Lenny's mother, Sally Marr, and was in fact killed on the way back from a tribute benefit which raised the money to put her in a good elder care facility.

But we don't have much in the way of actual in-print recordings of Lenny doing his stuff. So the message is garbled or forgotten, while the legend is held up as a shining symbol, and the legend's name is invoked by both good and bad to color or rationalize their own works and deeds. Sound like a familiar story yet?

For all his digs at organized religions of all stripes, I think Lenny would get a kick out of his own deification.

***

And, still on the subject of truthtelling Yids hounded by The Man and later worshipped, the whole "we killed Christ" schtick.

Look. I'm not a particularly well-traveled young man. I live in Philly, always have, and won't be all that unhappy if I always do. But I've been asked where my horns are. I've been asked why I'm proud to be Jewish "when the Jews killed Our Lord." I've been in at least one fight in which I heard the word "Christkiller" from the mouth of one of my assailants.

But more, I know that my father got it a lot. And THAT'S what really sparks my rage. You hit me, fine. Maybe I'll walk away; maybe I'll hit you back. But you hit a FRIEND of mine ... and it's war. And you screw with my FATHER ...

My dad's never been all that garrulous when talking of his past, and of any of his past life which didn't involve life with his parents--the good people who took him in as a foster child and loved him as their own--even less so. But once he let something slip, about why he didn't like the Jewish Home for Fatherless Boys he had been put in. He mused that it was near a Catholic nursing home, and that the grandkids who visited their elders might hang around too much, because they thought he killed Christ.
At the time, I was too young to understand, but it came hard, later on. And I hold grudges something fierce. A large part of a book-in-limbo I started some time back reflects this; it's a convoluted tale about a teenaged hoodlum-with-heart-of-gold at the time of Repeal (basically, my father, placed twenty years earlier than he was in real life and without Chuck and Jean to take him into their home), his semi-absentee biological father, a gangland higher-up, and ghouls haunting the caves in Fairmount Park (one of whom may or may not be Ambrose Bierce). But a lot of it popped into my head while I mused one day on what my father might have been had he not had the two who chose themselves for his parents, and what being an orphan would have made him, especially in that time and place. I have to get back to that book one day.

For me, though, it all comes down to this: It was announced by the Church that Jews DIDN'T kill Jesus, a couple years before I was born. But my father was chased and beaten in his youth due to that base canard, and I cannot find it in my heart to forgive the world for that.

Belated comments
"Lenny Bruce was bad/
He was the brother that you never had"--Bob Dylan

HARLAN: I want to thank you for the heads-up on the Trio expose of the Golden Globes. I'd always thought of the Globes as a basically-harmless warm-up for the Oscars, so it was something of a shock to learn just how much of a travesty it really is. If there's a bigger pack of lackeys, lickspittles, and bottom-feeders than the Foreign Press Association, then I don't wanna know. Truly, the whole ceremony is an embarrassment, and it blows my mind that ANYONE from Hollywood even shows up for the fucking thing. (My favorite moment from the documentary? The commingled look of disgust and bewilderment on Madonna's face when she had to pose next to Mrs. Lower Herzegovina for a photograph. The way is hard, my sister, the way is hard.)

Oh, and thanks to Susan for prompt delivery of The Great Ellison Rare Book Purge of 2004 catalog. There are some beautiful items in it, and I might as well just turn over my checking account to you guys right now, and get the whole thing over with.

As for Gov. Patacki's pardon of Lenny Bruce, I think it's WONDERFUL, and I can't understand why anyone would have a problem with it. Yes, it would have been splendid if Patacki's announcement had been accompanied by a public auto-da-fe, capped off with defenestration, of every bastard who ground poor Lenny down, but since we all know that will NEVER happen, this will do in the meantime. And yes, it's thirty-seven years too late, but what's the alternative? NEVER ackowledge there was an injustice done, and allow the 1964 obscenity charge against Lenny to stand for all time?

Ultimately, this pardon isn't really for Lenny, who's long past caring about such things--it's for everyone who believed, and continues to believe, that free speech matters a damn in this frequently-rotten world. It's for all of Lenny's friends and loved ones, who watched with ineffable sadness the erosion of a great and unique talent. It's for Lenny's daughter, Kitty, who said, "When I first heard he was pardoned I was speechless and then I began to cry."

It is, in the end, for ALL of us, and personally, I couldn't have imagined a better present in this holiday season. I'm only sad that my mother, who WORSHIPPED Bruce, didn't live long enough to see it.

I stand corrected
I'm violating the multiple post rule here for what I think is a good reason: to apoligize for any offense which may have been given.

Obviously, Harlan, you knew the man. My remarks were made from comments from other sources (most of which didn't know him personally) which I thought were reliable. It appears that I was wrong.

I have nothing but respect for the work he did and the art with which he graced us.

Please accept my apoligy.

Joseph Haines

Harlan,

Did you have a hand in HOW TO TALK DIRTY AND INFLUENCE PEOPLE? I found a copy at a used bookstore and plan on reading it soon. I was just wondering.

Take care,
Bill

LENNY BRUCE WAS A FRIEND OF MINE

Some of the writings that bear Lenny's byline were written by me. Every word of them. I worked with him, I hung with him, I knew him, and I liked him ever so much. So I enter here to respond to two remarks:

"He treated women badly." This is, as far as I know, absolutely untrue. In fact, precisely the opposite was true. SOME women treated him (and themselves) very badly. Lenny was a gentle guy, despite his toughness. I knew him in Chicago, I knew him in New York, and I knew him in Los Angeles. I NEVER saw him lift a hand to a woman, nor did I ever encounter a woman who badrapped him for his treatment of her. All the rest is applesauce.

"He was a moron about the legal system." Quite the contrary. He was pressed into service to LEARN the law, to defend himself, to serve as clerk and input for his attorneys and the ACLU; so he studied and observed and was pragmatic about what the offended Catholic Church, the Irish cops, and the pure-white courts were trying to do to him. He was at the cutting edge of obscenity law in this country at the time, he was all alone out there. Casebook law simply did not exist in that arcane area, any more than it does now with my Internet Piracy action; and most people were rabid to denounce him, comic books, movies, fellow-traveling, anything that wasn't the flag-waving bullshit of HUAC and later, Joe McCarthy. If anything, Lenny was TOO knowledgeable about the legal system: his nightclub act became a bore. Lenny standing up there in white chinos and a white shirt (because his skin was too sensitive to most fabrics and became raw), holding a court transcript in one hand, referencing a lawbook on a stool beside him, and gesticulating with the free hand, going over and over the legal transgressions that were being committed against him. I used to sit in the back of the clubs and cry at the ongoing destruction of a rare talent. It was truly tragic to behold. Anyone who would write that he was a "moron" about the legal system is an arriviste, a poseur, a Monday-morning quarterback who hasn't a farthing'sworth of understanding of what Lenny was up against in those pseudo-moral days of the '50s, who does not understand that he was a latter-day John Peter Zenger by trying to cope -- virtually unaided -- with a system and a nationwide mentality that was dedicated to eradicating him...which is what they did. They drove him away from his humor, from his insights, from his endless attempts simply to stay alive...and eventually drove him to the spike and death.

Whatever flaws Lenny may have had ... stupidity, ignorance, illiteracy and "moronic behavior" were not among them.

He was, and is, and will always be, a great icon of free speech, an incredibly clever entertainer, a good guy, a stand-up friend, and in the true spirit of Thoreau and Dreyfuss.

Yr. pal, as Lenny was mine, Harlan Ellison

Nothing to add on anti-Senmitism and blood libels that hasn't been said by anyone else. I did spend the day today watching the re-released DVD of _A Boy and his Dog_, and admiring at how well it's held up. The commentary by L.Q. Jones is lots of fun, and there is some discussion of the final dialogue and the Positions of Various Interested Parties on the subject. (No explanation of the clown-white makeup, tho.) Downside is that they haven't really cleaned up the print, so there's a fair amount of scratches and color fluctuations on the print.

As for the holidays, they went well for me. My nephew liked the book I got for him about Tupac Shakur, and my younger nephew liked it when I read him the books I got him: _The Wolves in the Walls_ by Neil Gaiman, and _Martin the Farting Dog_ by William Kotzwinkle. Generally a fine holiday.

Delurking
Happing December 26th, everyone! Hurray! Huzzah! Yippiteedoodah!

Anyhow, just delurking for a moment - I was surprised when someone (I believe Cindy) said they'd never heard of Jews killing Jesus untul well into their life (1981, I think). However, it came to me then that maybe it wasn't so surprising. After all, it's white folk who think they're prejudiced against, not black folks who think white folk are prejudiced against. In other words, maybe you have to be Jewish to find out early in life that, supposedly, Jews killed Jesus.

I think I found that out in the third grade, but it might have been fourth or fifth. In any case, it was a friend's mom who told me that - not accusatory, but just matter of factly. Like, "The sky is blue... didn't you know that?" I didn't realize it then, but now I believe that she (and the list of folks up to now who have said the same thing to me as if I should KNOW my damned history) was explaining the reason she wouldn't look me in the eye, the reason she hesitated when I invited her daughter to my house for dinner.

I get the same kind of tone when folks tell me "Well, this country WAS founded on Christian principles...." as an excuse for why [name your religious inequality statement here]. I don't usually bring up that some of our founding fathers, including Thomas Jefferson, was a deist... and various other beliefs. I get tired of playing the game at times. So I smile and shrug and look out the window.

In any case, happy holidays to all, happy December 26th, and most importantly, get ready for 2004!

--Zoë R. Treuer

References for my last post

If anyone desires a more scholarly examination on embedded anti-semitism in the sayings and stories of the New Testament, I recommend the following:


Crossan, John Dominic. Who Killed Jesus: Expsosing the Roots of Anti-Semitism in the Gospel Story of the Death of Jesus. San Francisco: Harper, 1995.

Pagels, Elaine. The Origin of Satan. New York: Random House, 1995.


For a broader study on Anti-Semitism as part of the overall history of the church, I recommend:


Carroll, James. Constantine's Sword. Boston: Houghton-Mifflin, 2001.

Merry Xmas.

http://www.prince.org/msg/100/74069

Lip service
Alex Berman:

Though your post reeks with an unspoken accusation, I thank you for it nonetheless. Most of the abuses you mentioned I was aware of, but there were a couple of which I was not. For bringing these to my attention and to the attention of others who might read this board, I thank you again.

I do indeed walk my talk. Being a published short-story writer myself, it is a topic dear to my heart. I feel no need to justify myself here.

You bring up valid points. Mr. Bruce did indeed shoot himself in the foot. Not once did I defend the man's actions outside of his role as an artist. He treated women terribly. He was a moron where the court system was concerned. But as Harlan has so eloquently stated in the past, "One should never confuse the artist with the art . . ."

My point is that in spite of the fact that he handled the situation poorly, he should have never been in the situation to begin with. We need to remember past abuses as well as fight the abuses to our freedoms and rights that are going on today.

Lee, you should write children's books; you are very gifted in the humor department

---------------

Todd, the GOP is full of raving Jew haters, and you cluck your tongue about Hillary.

By the way, Dooner is spot on. Hillary and Bill were both centrists; Bill being a bit more to the right. Sure, they both have certain liberal fits, but that is only a ruse, to play to a particular audience, who they want to scronk.

Sure, Kucinich and Al Sharpton are democrats, but look at the media attention they get. Sharpton, only for his one liners, Dennis, only when they have to.

Now, the Green Party, that is the leftist party. Why do you think Nader is considering another run?

--------------

Hope maimonides resided in all of your hearts this holiday, and none of you got too toasted. Me, I had a decent shnitzel dinner, and hoisted the frosty mug. Our buddy, Gunther would have liked it.

------------

Impeach Bush for 2004.

The Deathbird Has Landed


Christmas day passed in fine form for a house with five kids under six years old. Baby Jonah watched jealously from his baby seat as four little hellraisers strung out on chocolate santas ripped into presents, assembled, created, destroyed, and then crashed into moody depression with sugar levels plummeting just before lunch time. Gabriel, in the grips of a bad hypoglycemic dip, experienced psychotic rage when the head of his new Transformer broke off. Willow, the three year old, avoided eating her salad by using dressing to glue the leaves temporarily to the bottom of her seat. And just before nap time, two year old Elise expertly dropped under the parental radar and began to spontaneously potty train, exchanging diaper for underwear all by herself. Spectacular results, but not as she envisioned them.

Why mention this stuff? Well, right when daddy was starting to crack, blister and peel under the relentless blow-torch intensity of small kids on holiday, Linda gave him his present. It turns out that when I was doing road trips, she intercepted and hid the inscribed leatherbound Easton Press edition of ‘Deathbird Stories’ that HE sent in return for the Piaf disks. It’s the first time I’ve been surprised by my Christmas gift in decades. We’re talking pole-axed cow surprised. That beautiful book made my day, even the part where I read the inscription to my daughter and ended up trying to explain the concept of heresy to a six year old girl on Christmas Day.



Harlan,

Thanks again for the gorgeous book, which I have now received. It’s a book that will never again see storage.

Happy belated holidays everyone.

I haven't found a deacent, new thing to read other than some educational software, so I retreated into _Rhyme Of The Ancient Mariner_, and my paperback copy of _I Have No Mouth, And I Must Scream_. Let us contemplate this cybernetic quandary, if you will: Was AM merely a literary cousin of HAL-9000, or The Borg; the dark side of _I Robot_, or was there something deeper at work. Was everything you would care to know about the story in that conflict. Humanity versus machine, and humanity gets creamed.

The end?

I have my opinion, but I'm curious about yours. The last time I read it, AM seemed to be rather more of a consequence--a symptom, but not the problem itself.

I have satellite television now. Big deal. I watched HBO last night, and I couldn't help, but notice it's the same old shit that cable was showing ten years ago. I'm waiting for Cinemax to roll out Jack Nicholson in _The Shining_, and the time warp will be complete.

Lenny Bruce and the law

Joseph Haines:

Alex Jay eloquently explained the larger issues, but I just wanted to do a little cleanup re: tactics.

You complained about the stupidity of a 40-years-late pardon that supposedly some politicians took up to win brownie points with the voters. I responded that it hadn't happened that way, and there wasn't any reason for you to get in a stew about it.

You got on a higher horse and claimed to be all up in arms about First Amendment rights. Well, that's great, and we all agree, but that wasn't primarily what you were complaining about in your first post, which was the venality of politicians.

Again, Alex made the perfect point that there are plenty of reasons to be aroused about First Amendment rights TODAY, and politicians' unwillingness to defend them to the death (of their careers, anyway), and that's where your energy should go.

If you were to investigate Lenny Bruce's legal adventures, you'll find that he shot himself in the foot to some extent. He fired his attorneys and acted as his own counsel -- usually a very bad idea. The club that was prosecuted for hosting him pursued its appeals after the initial defeat in court and eventually got cleared, but Lenny did not, so that's part of the reason his conviction stood for so long. He might well have cleared his record while he was still alive if he had played the courts' game the way it's supposed to be played.

"I know I always say it but it's right, it IS like saying the caucasians killed Kennedy."

Good one, Cindiana Jones. I also like the line about the anti-semite's Jesus being a tick.

Chuck

Happy Kwanzaa or Sharezaa Whatever the Fuckzaa
Out of state, out of mind, just checking in to make sure no one was rattling the cages on the Big Birthday Party day.

Harlan, etc. - Was reading the Steve/Cindy stuff. On behalf of us Gentiles, please don't worry about it. The presents are nice and we thought Christ was getting to be a bit of a pill anyway.

I hope this is not inappropriate on Christmas Day

CINDY: Sadly, the prejudice against Jews begins with the texts of the Gospel of Matthew and John. In Matthew, there appears a famous and improbable line, often referred to as the "blood libel." That' the line that made Christian zealots and fundamentalists blame Jews for Jesus's death.

Even though crucifixion is a Roman method of execution, which Pontius Pilate loved to use on the Jews of that time, the Matthew Gospel actually has a Jewish mob claim that Jesus' death will be on their heads and the heads of their descendants. Thus we get the historical foundation of anti-semitism and Jewish persecution in the New Testament itself.

Why was this "blood libel" added to the story by the authors of the New Testament? Well, Christianity had caught on with Gentiles in Antioch, Greece and Rome, and since this religion-- founded by a Jewish Rabbi--was growing more popular among non-Jews, Jews became the bad guys, and Gentiles became the good guys. Plus, Gentiles did not want to live as Jews, as many early Christians did. So, they made Judaism the antithesis of Christianity when they wrote the Gospels.

That leads to that famous scene, in the Gospel of John, where a fictional Pontius Pilate pleads for the life of Christ in front of a ravenous Jewish mob. That's sort of like portraying a compassionate and saint-like Herman Goerring desperately trying to keep concentration camp doors shut, while a Jewish mob insists that they stay open.

So, what can we do? Well, I know of few Christians who are will