Unca Harlan's Art Deco Dining Pavilion

Archive - 07/24/03 to 10/13/03

Unca Harlan's Art Deco Dining Pavilion

Rob,

No offense taken - I figure you had merely run into some crummy congregations, and simply mis-laid that qualifier in your statement. And David, well put in your explication.

Regards,
Joseph

Piaf CD Available
Harlan,

Through EMI Music France, Universal/Capitol has decided to go ahead and release Mme Piaf's 40th anniversay CD in Europe, in spite of Frank Church's aggressive canary shredder metaphor and generally low opinions of her vocal qualities. The compilation is titled "Eternelle, Les Plus Grandes Chansons d'Edith Piaf". It is comprised of 40 songs on two discs, and includes 4 previously unpublished tracks and a new version of "Padam...Padam".

The new tracks are:
"Je ne veux plus laver la vaisselle"
"Ses mains"
"Rue de Siam"
"Jean l'espagnol"

I bought an extra copy of this set. Just say the word, and I'll ship it tout de suite.

editing quibble (that's what they pay me for)

Philip:

Now that you got that part straight, you should keep in mind that in future, the phrase would be most accurately rendered as "to a . . . criterion. . . ."

"Criteria" is the plural, though not too many people seem to be aware of that. (They have even more difficulty with data and datum, though the effort to keep the former strictly plural seems to be a lost cause.)

Reform and Orthodox

Let me add my support to Joseph's objection. I wasn't going to speak up, because I'm not a Jew, but I do belong to a large and distinguished Reform congregation, and attend service roughly once a month and have sat in on services for nearly half a dozen other sects(?) here in Portland.

Alex Jay evidently hasn't visited a heckuva lot of Reform congregations -- or maybe they've all been in roughly the same region. Like Unitarians, which in the Northeast seem to be more deistic and conservative, as opposed to the West Coast where a third of the congregations tend to be atheist, a third agnostic, and a third interested in being connected to a supreme deity, Jewish congregations vary a lot.

I won't go into great detail; merely observe that our Saturday Reform services always have Torah portions and lots of Hebrew (Friday evening services tend to be less formal, but retain at least a half dozen Hebrew prayers). The final afternoon Rosh Hashanah service last Monday was a full 3 hours, 45 minutes -- apparently every prayer was done in Hebrew, English, AND sung by the choir. (Glad I didn't go! My wife stumbled out dazed -- not only from the fast, but due to a woman who had not heeded the regular warnings not to bathe in perfume), angry, and not at all spiritually uplifted. But that's the exception more than the rule.

I wrote the previous posting too fast:

"according a to more complex criteria" should read

"according TO A more complex criteria".

Obvious typo, but I had to fix it.

Phillip

KILL BILL, VOL. 1: Bloody as Hell (as it should be)
I agree with Frank about “Kill Bill, Vol. 1.” I thoroughly enjoyed the movie for what it is and plan to see it again before it leaves my local theatre, and I’m looking forward to “Vol. 2.” I also agree with whoever said it’s a shallow movie with nothing underneath the surface, but the surface is so lovingly made--I just ate it up. It was a fun ride. A good ole fashion revenge flick. Uma Thurman going out to get everybody, and she gets ’em good. And that’s it.

Criticizing the movie according a to more complex criteria than that seems foolish.

Which seems to be the case for most of the negative criticisms I’ve read about the movie (including what I've read here in HE's Pavilion so far). James Berardinelli’s review of the movie, for instance, is a perfect illustration of a movie critic taking himself, as a movie critic, too seriously, and the movie, as a “film,” much too seriously--and judging the movie all wrong. (http://movie-reviews.colossus.net/master.html)

For example, the protagonist in a revenge flick is defined more by their ability to kick ass than their ability to carry on witty conversation. As entertaining as it might be to listen to two gangsters discuss the deeper meaning of a foot massage, that kind of extended dialogue would most likely slow down the kinetic energy of the all cool kung-fu that’s going on in “Kill Bill.”

So the movie doesn’t have a lot of memorable dialogue. So what? “Kill Bill” isn’t “Pulp Fiction,” nor do I think it is meant to be. It is a wonderfully crafted kung-fu, Samurai, kill-em-all and kill-em-good, revenge flick.

When I hear criticisms like “it was too bloody and too violent,” it reminds of something I inadvertently heard Kathy-Lee Gifford say about “Pulp Fiction” one day while I was flicking as fast as I could through the channels: “Did it really need to be so violent?”

That’s like asking, “Does a musical really need to have so much singing?” Yeah, it does. It’s called “The Sound of MUSIC.” What did you expect?

Quentin Tarantino’s latest movie is called “KILL Bill.” Kinda tells you what you’re in for, don’t you think?

If you don’t like violent revenge flicks, you won’t like the movie. That’s it. Don’t go. But for what it is, it is extremely well made, stunning and amazing at times, and--I hate this phrase--but a pure cinematic delight. It’s like Homer Simpson discovering triple-chocolate ice cream. Kung-fu revenge flicks don’t get any better than this.

And somehow I seem to agree with Frank.

Phillip Cairns
St. John's, NL, Canada

Just read an intriguing spin-off of Charles Dickens's work OLIVER TWIST called FAGIN THE JEW, by Will Eisner. It's a really, REALLY good book, dealing directly with the circumstances Jews had to cope with on a daily basis in Victorian England.

So, yes, it's not a very happy story.

Eisner stays relatively faithful to Dickens's narrative, while re-inventing the story at the same time through the eyes of Fagin. The sequence of events and characters appear to be the same, but it's like taking a black-and-white film and then casting the actors in completely different lighting. The 'hero', Oliver, is a little less of a wide-eyed innocent and a little more of a fickle boy, even a brat. Nancy looks more like how a lower-class woman would genuinely appear in the ghettos of London, as opposed to the glamorous portrayal found in Hollywood musicals. Even Charles Dickens (whose two appearences bookend the tale) comes off as an indifferent jerk.

Probably one of the most memorable sequences has Fagin's father going to a pub to collect on the winnings from a boxing match. The men at the pub cheat him, and when he begins accusing them of their crime, he's brutally murdered in plain sight for his troubles. Fagin witness his father's death, and when he tries to scream for help, passerbys reply with "Ignore him! It's just another Jewish street trick!"

All the while, a pool of blood is quietly gathering around the father's corpse.

Sorry, 2nd post....but hey I found it!!
Amazing.....that was the episode!!! Seems I was an Ellison fan about 5 years earlier than I'd estimated. I saw this show once, over thirty years ago, and it really stuck with me, it was soooo creepy. The very last scene, in which the only artist remaining has just escaped the explosion in the studio...someone tells him he was lucky and he says "Yeah. Lucky."... and turns to show his abstract metal FACE.

Many thanks Jon, don't ask me why I'm so thrilled to discover that HE wrote "Earth, Air, Fire, Water"....makes me a bit of a sad anorak eh? But much of the stuff I thought was brilliant when I was ten or twelve years old turns out to be not-so when I see or read it again as an adult. I'm happy to find that this one really was quality stuff.

Shit, did I really write a sentence putting Orson Welles and Quentin Tarantino on equal footing? Must've been the NyQuil. Lemme check here...oh, nope, looks like I didn't. Mark Walsh must've ingested something stronger than my cough medicine. If you could, Mark, let me in on that action. Unless you're busy attending an Ozu retrospective, or something...

It's just fun to see a movie made by someone who loves film and film devices. I'm not at all sure KIL BILL is a good movie, but I enjoyed it. Which, sad to say, is all I can ask for these days.

Jon-- thanks for the link and the title.

Lee-- did you ever wonder why it is necessary to have the word "defenestrate"? I wonder, is it such a common occurence that a verb is required?

Kill Bill
I disagree with the comment that none of the actors in KILL BILL vol 1 can carry a scene -- certainly Uma Thurman can.

But while I enjoyed the film for its kinetic energy, and was hyped by its over-the-top trashiness, I do hope Tarantino has gotten this kind of thing out of his system (with the second half, of course).

Otherwise, as far as I'm concerned, he's Mamet without content.

From My Solitude...

Okay, three ayhem, and I get to go to work. Sorry about the time of posting (as if it makes any difference, but it's my only chance today), but Lee's comment needs response. Besides, I get to gloat at the fact of earning double time today as a statutory holiday. Life is good.

To all my fellow Canadians, Happy Thanksgiving, or Thanksgiving Heureux for those in Quebec. We're having goose this year, with a fine sausage and wild chestnut stuffing. I'm grateful that we have the feasting, and none of the parades that make the American holiday look like a warm-up to the Whatchagetme buying season.

Last, and most important:

Lee:

Ne vous inquiétez pas à son sujet. C'était mon erreur pour employer le "français de gouttière" avec l'abandon, particulièrement quand j'ai parlé mes gosses sur l'importance de l'étude pour lire et parler et de toutes les langues correctement. En fait, mon plus vieux attrapé aussi bien me là-dessus, et réprimandé me pour l'aspect d'être un hypocrite. L'enfant était correct, et à ma contrariété j'ai dû lui faire face avec elle.

Je n'ai aucune honte au sujet de avoir tort, il est le mal restant qui pose des problèmes. J'espère que vous avez suivi l'immersion. Avoir la commande de plus d'une langue porte un nombre juste d'avantages, bien au delà de facilité de voyage, et l'assurance suffisante d'apparaître plus cultivée que d'autres.

And, typing the English part took about ten minutes. Typing the French, three. Non mauvais, diriez-vous?

Have fun, kiddies!

Scott

Oh, and Happy Thanksgiving from Soviet Canuckistan. As far as I can tell, turkey and potato prices appear to be in a race to see who gets to $O.00/pound first.

Cheers, Jon

Kill Bill
I was going to hold my tongue on this, but seeing two raves for Kill Bill (though qualified, both of them), I felt the need for balance, and hence the need to counter the recommendations to see the film.

First, not only should the squeamish avoid the film, but anyone with even a reasonable tolerance for on-screen violence should do so as well. I found the endless scenes of slaughter more grisly than goofy (though they are goofy) and more mean-spirited than stupid (though they are stupid). I can sit through pretty much anything a filmmaker throws at me as long as I feel like I'm being rewarded for my stamina. But "Kill Bill" is simply one gratuitous bloodletting after another, without any of the solid comedic or dramatic touchpoints found in work like "Jackie Brown", "Resevoir Dogs", or even "Pulp Fiction", which skates the same line (though more deftly) and resembles the current film more than the other two. Hence, the film cycles from boredom to repulsion and back to boredom, ad nauseum.

Add on to that the fact that none of the major roles are filled by actors who can carry a scene, and that the dialogue is awkward and flat, especially for Tarantino, and you have a major clunker of a film that's main attraction seems to be a high number of decapitations. (At least that's what the audience I saw it with applauded at loudest and longest.) (And I'm not, not not not trying to imply that those here what liked the flick are the kind who hoot and holler at flying melons, but merely describing the audience I was in the middle of, and what bits of the film they really seemed to revel in.)

Sorry to be so vehemently negative about a film you guys dug, but I thought that with two urgings for people to see it already out there, that maybe anyone actually wondering about what to put out ten bucks for at the mulitplex might appreciate another point of view.

You can have the mic back now, stop pushing, and no need to call the cops, I'm going already fer chrissakes. Sheesh. I believe I had a hat when I came in. Thank you.

Scott: I hope I didn't come across as being catty; over the last year I've taken 3 months of classroom French into total immersion in France at both a research center and a factory; the people that I work with span socially from the grand école elite all the way down to your salt-of-the-earth ouvrier. I'm constantly challenged in sorting out slang and idiom from plain old bad french and I was interested to see a native speaker using that construction.

As for getting lovingly patted on the head by a French teacher…let’s just say that my last tutor’s opinion of my progress seemed to indicate that “defenestrate” is the same word in both languages.

Dorie: Ghost story? Ellison? To start, try

http://www.tvtome.com/tvtome/servlet/GuidePageServlet/showid-8806/epid-148711

Or type 'harlan ellison earth air fire water' into a google search and see what happens, I s'pose.

Cheers, Jon (whose idiomatic French is somewhat better than his formal French, especially when it comes to 'des hamburgers')

Remember Circle Of Fear?
I've just stumbled upon a reference to Harlan Ellison having written for the 70s TV show Ghost Story aka Circle Of Fear. I never knew he wrote for that series, is it common knowledge round here? Can anybody give me a quick synopsis of the plot(s)? I remember quite a few of those shows, just loved gettin' the bejeebers scared outta me when I was about 10 years old....tell me he wrote the one about the artists who discovered the old jars with spirits in them, that was absolutely THE scariest episode, real nightmare fodder!

JOSEPH: Perhaps I should have said, "The Reform congregations *I* have visited have all had watered-down services."

The one which springs most readily to mind was an old girlfriend's; rather than read Torah, the rabbi simply talked about what the portion for the day was about. Granted, that's an important part of the sermon, but I was shocked that the Torah itself was given an ornamental status only--like a person buying a library of books because they LOOKED good on the wall.

Congregations, I realize, differ greatly from shul to shul--but my experience showed me synagogues very different from what I assume yours is like.
Your shul may well be a great house of worship--and I do not doubt that this is so, for yours and many other Reform synagogues--it's just not what I've seen. Apologies for offending.

Mark,

"A sentence that puts Tarantino and Welles on equal footing - THAT'S the true indication that the Four Horsemen have mounted up and are ready to ride."

...certainly in the annals of human perception and taste, indisputably.

Reform Services
I take issue with your idea that Reform services are somehow "watered down" form of Shabbat services. May we agree that you misspoke, and meant that Reform has simply gone in a less-cumbersome direction than the traditional service?

Michael Reed:

THANKYOUTHANKYOUTHANKYOUTHANKYOUTHANKYOU!!!!!!!!!

Bill

When Tarantino has nothing to say, he keeps his mouth shut. When he chances upon an idea from another artist, he makes a movie. If it wasn't for Elmore Leonard and Hong Kong Cinema, this bum would still be renting you videos in West Hollywood.

And spare me all this crap about a Cubs/Red Sox Wrolds Series being the sign of the Apocalypse. A sentence that puts Tarantino and Welles on equal footing - THAT'S the true indication that the Four Horsemen have mounted up and are ready to ride.

Speaking of the Sox, that was plain foolishness what transpired on the field and in the bullpen at Fenway yesterday. Shame and eternal shame; nothing but shame all around. The WWF meet MLB and it was a long time coming.

Damnation!
Walshy

full throttle
I'm going to agree with Frank, for once, and urge anyone who hasn't to check out the first volume of KILL BILL.

It's wonderful to see a movie made with such enthusiasm and energy. Tarantino is as playful as Orson Welles. He throws in everything from animation to split-screen. It's charged with life, the way that, say, BOOGIE NIGHTS was.

This is a shallow movie. There's nothing at all underneath the surface. But the surface was lovingly made. And, this time, that's enough.

I will be honest, never did care much for Piaf's voice. Reminds me of a canary being thrown through a paper shredder. I respect her artistry, but since everyone else is on her boat, I thought I would play the bad guy role; which I play so well.

But I do love you all.

---------------------

Go see Tarantino's Kill Bill; a wonderful homage of the 70's kung fu movies. It is basically a comic book style exploitation film, that takes ultra-violence to new levels. So, if you are at all squeamish, DO NOT go. It is artsy when it needs to be, and fun and funky most of the time. Just great. Dirt simple plot, but oddly stunning film. Fight scenes are like deft ballet. Must see. Super violent though. Warning.

--------------

John Simon has gone after Gore Vidal for his misuse of the French language in his essays. Strangely, Vidal will not debate him. I love Vidal, but don't hide from your mistakes. If Simon is right, then admit that you are wrong. Some people just cannot admit they are not always on point.

Wink.

---------------

"Sanity is a madness put to good use."
George Santayana

On The Road With Ellison Volume 2
Greetings. It's Michael from Deep Shag Records with some news. After meeting briefly with Harlan last month, I am pleased to tell you that the second volume of On The Road With Ellison should finally be released in 2004. I am currently sifting through 40+ tapes covering Harlan's speaking engagements over the last quarter century. It is a very slow and painstaking task, but I'm sure I can wring enough sonically worthy stories, jokes and, dare I say, blistering commentary from yr. pal Harlan.

I will post updates to The Pavilion on my progress from time to time. To get the official release date announcement and other news, please join the Deep Shag Records email list at www.deepshag.com. Your info will never be shared and is used only to let you know about upcoming releases & events. Thanks for your interest.

Michael

born agains...
I've met born-agains of all colors that I considered sincere people--I think it breaks down more to class than race. Most of the genuine ones I knew were just regular people, working some menial job to make ends meet and then going to church as much as they could, probably just to feel like someone out there cared about them. I've been to some of those storefront churches and the people I've met there have been the most giving people you'd ever meet...although some are also absolutely wacko.

However, there's a big percentage of SUV driving soccer mom bland types too, especially in the bigger churches...I went to a Baptist church for a while [mainly because I was starved for some kind of social interaction] but got too freaked out by the pod people after a while. There wasn't any there there, to quote Dorothy Parker. They didn't seem to be evil or bigoted, they just seemed to be comatose in their approach to life.

But the caveat about the "sign of the fish" is a good one to heed. I avoid any business that has that symbol on its advertisements--to me they are the direct descendents of the moneychangers in the temples.

Lee:

Actually, in proper infinitve form, you are correct (and your French teacher would pat your head lovingly and smile at your attentiveness.). In slang form, however, my bad French is perfectly tolerable, used in much the same way as your English "you know", as in "I went to the store and found there was no bread, you know?". I'll now pause and let the patron author flog me verbally for the atrocious grammar in both tongues. Forgive a Quebecquois for using idiomatic form.

As to software, I've tried the other programs mentioned, and find them frustrating for much the same reasons you've mentioned. I don't like writing something, translating, then having to go in and correct half of what the program has brought forth. Reverso seems to have dealt with the problems of the comparative colloquial slang forms between French and English quite nicely, so I'm not having to patch up too much. I've often found that the lower priced software often forces the text into perfectly correct grammatical form, and gives the text a forced literate structure. Everything turns out too businesslike, without real character and personage showing through. Fine for business memos, but I don't like to appear as a person with, how do you say, a rod up his ass?

Scott

Correction

That's "L'accordeoniste" --sorry.

Here's what I found. . .

The six Piaf songs found in a French library in July of 2003 were:

1. "Le Fille de Joie est Triste" (an early version of La Accordeoniste")

2. "Je ne Veux Plus Fair la Vaisselle"

3. "C'Etait si Bon"

4. "Ces Mains"

5. "La Valse de Paris"

6. "Chanson d'amour"


These are supposed to be released by Universal Music/Polydor in October for the 40th anniversary. I went to the Universal site and the Polydor site and couldn't find any date for the release.


Steve Dooner

That was probably a rhetorical question but if you wanted to know.... it's "vous savez".
"connaitre" is to know a person, "savoir" is to know facts, have knowledge etc.

Scott: Wouldn't that be "vous connaissez?"

Anyhow, in fulfilling my current role of dad trying to pay the bills, I have ended up as an expatriate American doing two years in France. (There may not be any place in the world where Arnold's election is more of a pain in the ass to a travelling American.)

I'll check around the local CD shops for the Piaf releases. And seeing as Harlan's the one asking, I'd also be happy to buy and ship if no better route comes to hand - that's assuming I find the discs, of course.

PS

Systran has nice little two-language translators for $59. They're very good with idiomatic expressions, but choke badly on long sentences that take a different form in the other language. If you just need to do a sentence or two, their site (www.systransoft.com/) will do 150 word text blocks for free.

Babylon-Pro ($49.50 @ www.babylon.com/) is an active dictionary: control-right-click at any time on any word in any application in either language and it pops up a small tranlation box with the definition in the other language - no need to set direction of translation. The translation box can then be used to query the online Babylon site for verb conjugation lists, etc. It doesn't handle idiom or multi-word phrases, but is absolutely super for puzzling out blocks of text that are already 70% readable.

Wife bothered me while installing chair rails (no biggie, so long as the torpedo is properly filled), so here is what I know of Piaf discs:

Wife is right about "Passion", but wasn't aware of the 10 disc set. Had to show her the advance order I made. It'll beat the hell out of listening to copies made from my 78s.

Alex: Next time, try Amazon.ca, and go to the "Nos Boutiques Francophones", at the far right of the categories tab bar. Simply click on it to get which lauguage you need. Makes for quicker conversion to and from Anglais. Saves on the Reverso Pro 5 software package (much needed for us lazy French, who prefer writing in mother tongue than dealing with your corrupted and confused little vocabulary, vous connait?), and the $395 pricetag involved. Can't wait for the day I forget to use it before submitting a post.

There are advantages to having two offical languages, mes amis. So, now I go back to work, blearily hoping to finish before three in the morning.

Scott

A long, long time ago on the old (well loved) black and yellow board I said I believe Edith Piaf to be the greatest singer of all times. I am delighted to hear that Paris is pitching a fete in her honor. What was it Harlan said...a tortured angel? I thought that was perfectly articulated.

How sad was her life and yet I wonder if that devine sound could have sprung so effortlessly from her soul had she not come through the fire?

One of my favorites is L'Accordianiste. There are two versions one is superior to the other but both will raise the flesh on your arms.

I would love to hear the lost songs. What a treasure-- what an astounding find!

Cindy



Hey Alex Jay?

You ENJOYED a BABTIST service? It must have been a black congregation. The white babtists are the other half of the two groups of individuals that make me struggle to not be prejudiced. Was it you, Alex, who wrote (on the other board) that being "born again" meant different things dependent upon the color of the soul who claims such status? That would be a correct assertion. Black "born again" is generally genuine
(from my experience) WHITE "born again" (particularly the "in your face" sort) is ( in my experience) usually a ploy for increased commerce. Beware the fish-- those symbols of "Christianity" that some post on their websites or business logos usually mean you should clutch your wallet firmly and at all times know its whereabouts.

I think the phrase " born again" pertains to starting anew-- decisively putting aside the old ways and embracing a new method of living that would emulate that of Christ.

There is no local Synagog--probably not one for a hundred miles, but I'll find one.

Thank you, sweet Alex.

Cindy

Edith Piaf
Harlan,
Now that you have the CD info, if it's not available through Amazon or any of those large mail-order sites, contact The Bop Shop 585-271-3354 or email the proprietor Tom Kohn at tomkohn@rochester.rr.com He can order just about anything and have it within a week. There's more about the store at www.bopshop.com BUT a search will not turn up everything they have in stock, website listings are only the rare, out-of-print titles.

Sorry; the two-disc set came out on September 23rd.

HARLAN: A quick look on the French version of Amazon.com (with some help from AltaVista's translation service for this non-Francophone) turned up two new albums (among a rash of reissues):

There is a HUGE 10-CD box set coming out on the 14th called the "Intégrale 40ème Anniversaire" collection. Unfortunately, there is no listing of all the songs.

However, there may be a two-disc set that is what you want: "Eternelle : Les Plus grandes chansons d'Edith Piaf" which lists four songs as "New" and one as a "New Re-recorded version".

The new songs are (he said, apologizing in advance for his horrid translating):
"Je Ne Veux Plus Laver La Vaisselle," or "I don't want to wash dishes anymore"
"Ses Mains," or "Its ("His"?) Hands"
"Rue De Siam," or "Siam Street"? "Streets of Siam"?
"Jean L'espagnol," or "Spanish John"
and
a new re-recorded version of "Padam ... Padam." No clue as to what it means.

The ASIN of the big 10-disc set is B0000AKPR1, and the two disc set's ASIN is B0000AKPQZ.

Hope that helps!

Mr. Ellison:

The latest Piaf CD Scott and I own is "Passion De La Vie", and it's on the Arkadia label. They released the most recent we have.

Try the Arkadia website:

http://www.view.com/arhome.html

Or phone: (213) 533-0007

I'll ask the husband, after he finishes the upstairs hallway. He loves the old chaunteurs, and I can recall Piaf being on our turntable quite often during our courting.

Now, if you'll excuse, Hallowe'en pumpkin teapots and mugs need a coat of glaze.

Bye, Melissa

HELP AND/OR INFORMATION REQUESTED

In conjunction with the big Parisian celebration of the memorial for Edith Piaf, I've been advised that archives have recently been scoured, and six unreleased piaf songs have been found. Apparently a new CD is now, or imminently, in release. Does anyone out there -- particularly one of my amies lurking in the Francophile shadows -- possess the specifics I crave? Etonne-mois! Particularly the label, the title, and how to order it?

Your good offices in this small matter will be appreciated.

Respectfully, Harlan Ellison

Thanks to Harlan and Alex
Harlan: Since you are one of the minds that I most respect in the world today and especially since you are a creator of culture, your comment has left me truly humbled. Thank you.

Alex: Thank you for the apology. I wish you only the tenderest and most moving verses of the Bible, Upanishads and Ovid.


"Ovid's always been my favorite poet."
--Elwood P. Dowd


Steve Dooner
Atheist
Believer in physics, evolution and astronomy

And, burdened by illness, I forgot ANOTHER thing I wanted to show you guys. Here is a link to a 1940 article from Das Schwarze Korps, the weekly newspaper of the SS, denouncing Superman and Jerry Siegel's work on same as "Israelite/Saduccee poison" ...

http://www.calvin.edu/academic/cas/gpa/superman.htm

Oh--and CINDY: If you wish, go to the local synagogue and ask if you can sit in on a Shabbes (Sabbath) service as an observer. IF you do so respoectfully and ask what will be expected of you--as I'm certain you would--they'd be happy to have you. My recommendation would be to go to a Conservative synagogue, as Orthodox services would be too hard to follow (and women are sequestered from the men), and Reform services would be too watered-down.
I've enjoyed the Baptist services I've attended, and the Catholic Midnight Mass I was at one Christmas, so I see no reason why any other religion wouldn't reciprocate.

TO STEVE DOONER AND THE REST OF THE BOARDMEMBERS:

I apologize.

Being under the spell as I am of the Yearly Alex Jay Berman Memorial Almost-Flu and General Annoyance, I should not have posted as I did. I was up to personal discourse, but not critical discourse, so my points meandered and foundered.

I LOVE old stuff; at least a quarter of my three thousand-odd books here in the apartment are older than I am. And I have read and enjoyed all but one of the things you cited--I'm not sure if I've read that particular Sapphic poem or not.

But what annoys me greatly is the insistence that immediate premium be placed on "ancient texts" when so many bad translations and interpretations abound of the holy texts which the world's religions DO follow; when great large parts of said texts have no bearing on the present day, and especially when shills and shucks also abound, creating cultish shams which ensnare the gullible.
Remember Pyramid Power? Hell; the Arts & Entertainment channel, usually pretty good, STILL does a "Mysteries of the Pyramids" special every couple of weeks.

And in regard to religion, there are just FAR too many jackasses who insist on quoting certain Bible verses, such as the injunction agaisnt homosexuals or the old "Suffer ye not a witch to live," all the while thundering that the Bible--every verse, parable, and line--is the be-all and end-all of what should be followed. "God said it, I believe it, that settles it," goes the refrain.

Yet these selfsame people have no problems eating milk with meat, wearing clothes of mixed fibers, or ignoring the simple "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you," picking and choosing from the verses of these "holy texts," finding the bits which suit their individual predjudices.

(Or in Islam, the most egregious examples are the Sura of the Cow, which is now used to justify hatred and war against non-Muslims and the oppression of women when such was never the intended meaning, or the Sura of the Spider, in which we are told, "He that fights for Allah's cause fights for himself. Allah does not need his creatures' help." Many modern-day Muslims entirely overlook the words in the Sura of Women: As for those that pay no heed to you [who do not follow Islam], know then that WE have not sent you to be their keeper. Allah takes note of all their plots. Therefore let them be, and put your trust in Allah.")

Those who profess to follow the "ancient holy texts" to the word do not take into account said texts' many contradictions. They mistalke parable for word-for-word commandment, take sentences out of context to justify their own hatreds, and generally play fast and loose with their interpretations of what their God or Gods demand.

And, as I said, there are those who put forth NEW "ancient" traditions; who have become purveyors of false "knowledge of old," taking piecemeal old superstitions and new rituals spun from whole cloth and present them as their own "ancient holy texts."

I realize my thoughts are wandering again, and this damned virus is having its way with me (I rarely get sick, and so regard it as a personal insult and foolishly attempt to ignore it when I do), so please forgive the scattershot nature of this post. Still, I hope it clears up what I said earlier.

Brian: No more decapitation images (in jest or otherwise) that include my pal Dooner. Any thought of the world losing Steve's encyclopedic and humane mind is dark, man, too fucking dark. And having Frank Church do it only dumps a quart of salt onto an already raw wound.

Best,
Mark

Frank Makes The Hit List
Well, Frank, that is, of course, the last time I humble myself enough to concede I hadn’t had much spare time to look up those online sources (OBVIOUSLY, I know about them ya dumb fuck) - unsure about which ones were more valid than others (in case you didn’t know it, Frank, you fatuous dork, those sources vary). After all the information I’ve provided here in the past from a great well of wisdom (I shout SHAZAM every morning) all you can do is take a condescending shot - your ONE opportunity, as you know full well you’re not dealing with some ignorant asshole. Yes, there are many sources online; a myriad. But with lots of my own work to do, sitting for hours with a lordotic bend in my spine, I thought I’d turn to some people here possibly informed enough on the topic to direct me to the RELIABLE sources (sparing myself the need to cull from stuff that just reiterates what I already know...but COULD be mistaken) and perhaps have some constructive input about it themselves (that, of course, excludes you). In short, I had the hidden motive of sparking what I thought would be an interesting subject for discussion. (And of course I DO take Stossel with a grain of salt; I know his motives; this was simply an argument I wanted to explore further.)

Now, FAIR sounds like an interesting source. I didn’t know about it. If I hadn’t asked, you see, I wouldn’t have gotten it. Soooooo, WHEN I have a moment I’ll take a look at it.

Having said that, Frank, this is the last time I show humility. I am a dangerous sociopath; a killer on the loose. I’ll be here on the street corner waiting for you, Frank. WAITING for your next inevitable discharge of irrational rubbish and misinformation. WAITING…with a meat hook to put through your ass. When I get through with you you’ll find yourself hanging upside down in a slaughter house envying Jurgis Rudkus.

STEVE DOONER

Brilliant comment. You are what is meant, when someone makes reference to "a cultured individual."

Harlan

My name is...
Inigo Montoya, you killed my father. Prepare to die.

That's my quiz result. At first I got Aragorn, but I wasn't answering quite honestly enough.

re: 'Shamanistic Wisdom of the Ancients'
Merry Mother of God. Who the hell needs Swedish doctors?

ALEX,
Who gives a flying rat's ass about the last ten years? I'm referring to Arnold the Auteur, Arnold the Artiste, the Arnold behind CONAN THE BARBARIAN, behind TOTAL RECALL, behind HERCULES GOES BANANAS! Not the hateful parody that came later, the commercial sell-out abomination responsible for JINGLE ALL THE WAY and END OF DAYS! Ah, for those magical years when Arnold was a cinematic poet that ranked alongside the likes of Ingmar Bergman and Federico Fellini!

But I forgive him. Heaven help me, I forgive him.

HAAAAHAAAAAheeeheeeheeeeee....."alleged penis snatchers".....I was going to write something pithy and in general agreement with your last statement, but I'm laughing too hard.... (I know, it's not funny and people got killed but HONESTLY!!!)

Shamanistic Wisdom of the Ancients
CNN serves up a pithy example of ancient wisdom in modern practice: todays Gambian shamans extort wealth from a local male population that belives it is possible to use voodoo to shrink a man's genitals to nothingness with a touch. Lest any think I am making this up, I include the link:

http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/africa/10/09/gambia.penis.reut/index.html

It's CNN, so it must be true.

Some of humanity's most touching views of the world are carried forward through old writings. Texts like the pentateuch with it's ancient view of the firmament as a tent with little holes in it letting the light of God shine through.

But there is some flaw in our psychology as a species that allows more or less irrational belief systems to function as a basis by which a large population is led by a charismatic minority to believe in the existence of invocable supernatural powers. All religions lead down down the same boring road: using irrational fears to concentrate power in the hands of a few.

If religion didn't cost so much in the area of personal freedoms, I wouldn't have anything at all against them.

Coupla comments.

First of all, to Rob, about John Stossel: Take anything he says with a big grain of salt. Even when he reports a True Fact, it is placed in the service of a nearly-evangelical desire to promote an extremist laissez-faire capitalism. _FAIR_'s done a couple of takeouts on the guy, and many are available at http://www.fair.org/media-outlets/stossel.html. And there are many web resources for research into child labor around the world.

Chomsky essay on stuff: http://bostonreview.net/BR28.5/chomsky.html

To Chris L, re killing a friend for immortality. That made me think of a neat scene, which goes as follows. Satan has two guys in front of him, Steve and Frank. Satan turns to Steve and says, "I will offer you immortality. But you must kill your friend to earn it."

Steve looks at Frank and says, "Immortality, but I'd carry the guilt and pain of being a murderer with me for eternity. But it'd be a net gain, overall-- both of us expect one human lifetime, which emans if I refuse, we have two lifetimes. But if I accept, I could live for at least three lifetimes, so there's a general net gain for human life..."

Frank sees where this is going. He whips out a sword and cuts Steve's head off. "I accept!" he says. "Give me immortality!"

Satan looks at him evenly. "I wasn't talking to _you_..."

Rob, ya dunce, ever hear of a service named Google?

Ahem:

http://www.hrw.org/children/labor.htm

http://www.historyplace.com/unitedstates/childlabor/

"14- and 15-year-olds may be employed outside of school hours for a maximum of 3 hours per day and 18 hours per week when school is in session and a maximum of 8 hours per day and 40 hours per week when school is not in session. This age group is prohibited from working before 7 a.m. and after 7 p.m., except during summers when they may work until 9 p.m. (from June 1 through Labor Day)."

I would say that this part of the law could be amended to not exclude someone from being a batboy. But, as usual, Stossel is picking nits.

Most of the child labor in the world is in India, where children are forced to make expensive rugs on looms, so that rich people around the world can empress their pathetic, plastic friends.

Of course, the prostitution of children in Asia is a world wide scandal.

Then you have prison and slave labor in China. Indonesia is a special friend to this sickness. Ever since we supported the dictatorship of Suharto.

Rumors in South America and Central America for years, that there is a secret organ trade; where street children are kidnapped, and they are killed for their organs.

Much of child labor was abolised because of years of good activism, and stronger laws. But these laws are important in keeping the world free of this blight. Sure, there are dumb exceptions, but Stossel is still a little bitch boy.

Stossel, according to FAIR, has been wrong on almost every show he has done, but has never been fired; unlike someone else, who would have been canned years ago for such shoddy reporting. And they whine about Jason Blair.

More stuff for you Robby:

http://www.caa.org.au/campaigns/nike/

Sure, the workers in third world countries have a better standard of living, but they are still being exploited. I am not saying they should not work, but we should make sure their pay and standards are better--simple.

-----------------

::DISENGAGE MATURITY VECTOR::

Rush is a pill popper!! Rush is a doper!! Rush is going into rehab with the riff raff!! Rush needs better, "personal responsibility!!" Rush is a doody face!!

Todd, Cindy, your hero is a goner!! WoooooooooooHooooooo!!

Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!! Haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!

::REENGAGE MATURITY VECTOR::

Ah, yes, there are many striking ancient texts that I peruse on a regular basis. Plato can be quite poetic, in a mythic sense, and the scriptures can be disarmingly poetic at times.

A spot of Tea?

I seek some information I can trust. I hope someone here has the facts down on this issue (please read this all the way through; don't stop in the middle figuring you got enough to warrant a reply).

I stumbled on 20/20 journalist John Stossel - who I generally regard as an asshole - doing a story in his typically brash fashion on our "ill-informed" notions about child labor laws. "Do child labor laws go too far?", he asks.

Scenarios he uses to support his argument:

'The law says no child under 14 may hold a job. And there are strict rules about 16-year-olds. The laws were passed in the 1930s to protect children who might be exploited by factories, or forced to work by their families. In Georgia, a newspaper caught a minor league baseball team, the Savannah Cardinals, with an underage batboy. The crime? Some baseball games last later than 7 p.m., and the child labor laws say that a child under 16 may not work that late on school nights. So was this batboy being exploited? He didn't think so. "I was disappointed that somebody would take somebody's dream away like this," said the boy, 14-year-old Tommy McCoy.'

'Why stop him? If it's terrible for him to be at the ballpark past 7 p.m., then how come it's OK for so many little kids to watch the game? But when we watched the bureaucrats at work these days, we didn't see "victims" who wanted rescue."'

'I don't think the government should be able to tell us if our kids can work or not," said his mother, Staci. Good point. Our government should decide what's best for every kid and every parent? Give me a break! '

OK...sounds like a strong argument to justify modifying an outdated law. But he proceeds to argue that the infamy of third world sweatshops is mythologized too...that the industry provides stepladders to better jobs for low wage workers there. Well...considering the resentment I've held for Western companies exploiting child labor and the poverty-stricken, often in shoddy - perhaps unhealthy - work conditions, I'd like to know to what extent I might have misjudged things.

Now...in the wake of such historical monuments as Janet Cooke and Mike Barnicle (about whom, incidentally, The Simpsons did a send-up - in the character of 'McGarnicle') I've come to distrust many journalists out there - particularly right-wingers (Harlan, in your decades of market-trotting as a writer I imagine you knew a number of these guys. DAVID, YOU'D probably have something to say about THEM too). I've heard nonsensical bullshit from Stossel before; material he channels tightly, leaving out certain pertinent facts to paint broad depictions - as he did here since it's not like he explored every third world country exploiting labor. He typically uses the KATO INSTITUTE for his data. Yet, I'm not THAT well-read on this particular issue and I wonder if, however well-intentioned our protests are in the U.S. against outfits like Nike, we rage with a distorted understanding of the details.

I'm somebody named Marcus, I think from Babylon 5.

Darn, I wish I'd gotten Raistlin Majere - I shoulda answered yes to the "Would you kill your friend for immortality" question if I wanted that. Raistlin is from the Dragonlance books, in case you don't know.


I think Alex Jay speaks much wisdom. There is a strange notion imbedded in the culture that ancient knowledge is somehow superior. Yet this same people probably would also agree that we have progressed in terms of knowledge over the years, which certainly seems like a contradiction to me.

I don't doubt for a minute there were plenty of brilliant folks from long ago who said and wrote brilliant things that are as insightful and relevant today as when they wrote them. At the same time, there is probably a whole lot of ancient knowledge that sounded pretty good at the time but which subsequent knowledge and research has proven invalid. Crap, we don't need to look too far back to find examples of this: cigarette smoking improves your circulation! Duck and cover! I am not a crook!

We know more about the world today than we knew thousands of years ago. There's certainly knowledge that's been lost over that time period too - they weren't as obsessive about recording history as we are today. But I'll take most modern medical treatments over a course of leeches any day.

Socrates and Plato to Francis Bacon to Albert Einstein... everyone has stood on the shoulders of giants. All were brilliant men. But scientific knowledge is a process of refinement and improvement (albeit not in as smooth and steady a path as we might like to think.)

It's vital to heed the wisdom of the ancients and even more vital to challenge it.

And you can talk about Enkidu and Priam and Odysseus and all that blah blah. Ain't nothin' compares with Snorri and the Edda. Best mythology ever. Maybe it doesn't quite qualify as ancient but it kicks ass.

AACKK!
That should read ". . .there are a lot of things to love about this damned human race." Sorry.

On Ancient Texts

Alex: It is true that great books like Neruda's collected poems or Harlan's "Deathbird Stories" are as great, if not greater, than many ancient texts. Also, I agree that we should certainly drop any foolish superstition or silly biblical law that holds a culture in the vice of an out-moded tradition.

But I must answer your question: "What's so great about ancient texts?" My answer: a lot.

Here's a partial list of what's great:

--Enkidu losing his animalism in the arms of the harlot

--Listening to Andromache,whose entire family had been killed by Achilles, plead with her husband, Hector, not to fight Achilles so that she will not lose her family a second time.

--Sappho's poem, "To me he is like a hero"

--Ecclesiastes saying that sun rises on the good and the bad alike.

--Old King Priam kissing the hands of the man who killed his children.

--Argos, Odysseus' twenty year old dog, seeing his master again just before his death on a dung heap.

--Dido's silence in the underworld

--Tamar tricking Judah

--That moment in the Song of Solomon when the daughter of Jerusalem seeks her love in the night and her hair becomes wet by the drops of evening.

--Yahweh punishing Bildad, Zophar and Eliphaz for acting like theologians and blaming Job's sorrows on Job.

--Jocasta saying that many a man has shared his mother's bed in his dreams.

--Odysseus plucking the string of his bow to the sound of Zeus' thundercrack.

--That mysterious line from the Rg Veda's "Hymn of Creation": "In the beginning non-being existed not nor being."


Alex, sometimes where you're going is where you've been. I know this that isn't always the case, and I hope that humanity can create new dreams, as Mark Twain advised in The Mysterious Stranger. Yet, I still look to the best texts of the past, and I see that there's a lot of things to love about this damned human race.

Please realize that I do not revere old texts because they are old, I admire them because they are human and alive. Some of that old stuff is as good as it gets.

Steve Dooner
Atheist, Humanist,
Lover of Ancient and Modern Literature

RE: quiz

Raistlin Majere--I am not familiar with him...?

Who the hell is Galadriel?

Meantime,

Say what y'all will about Ahnuld-- for all that's wrong with him there must be a helluva lot that is right or he wouldn't have a woman like Maria still clearly over the moon for him.
She apparently has either a high bullshit threshold or there is more to that man, mentally, than meets the eye. I can't see her staying with him through this mess unless he possesses an astounding degree of wit and intelligence to offset his bahd behayffyor.


Alex Jay,
I thank you most kindly for the beautiful description of your recent adventure in Shul. If they allow shiksas I would love to go some day and experience what you describe. I used the word here once already but it sounds so beautiful.

I was also quite impressed that the small ones did not distract you and touched by your understanding of their limitations. I loved what you said to those who were not exemplifying the spirit of the occasion.

Cindy


Sheryl,
Welcome!
:)
Cindy

Ther recent comment by Bruce Miller regarding "ancient holy texts" set me to thinking. And since Harlan is an avid devotee of things and times past (as am I), this set me thinking on a different track.

What's so great about ancient works? Why--aside from historical and anthropological interest--are we so slavishly in thrall to anything with an "ancient" tag on it? Because someone in the way back Year Dot saw a collection of spots on a sheep which resembled the Elvis of his time, why should we follow any of the ranting prophecies this caused him to spout?

Now, far be it from me to say that the old should be forgotten; Santayana in Heven, no! But we seem to have this societal blind spot when it comes to pointing out that some "ancient" stuff was utter and complete shit.

And, as any antique dealer knows, it doesn't matter how important a piece is, unless you fudge it and make it LOOK old, it won't sell.

So you have yipyops selling crystals and herbs and star charts and the Wisdom and Healing Arts of the Ancients, all just dripping with Capital Letters ...
Bugger that.
Gimme penicillin and DNA and X-Rays, thank you; no goat sacrifices for me (not a diehard Cubs fan).

The Bible, just as an example, has some fine life lessons, and some beautiful poetry. Why, though, does that make it better than the noral code instilled in me by my parents, and, say, the work of Neruda?
After all, Neruda never has holy men cause bears to attack children making fun of his baldness ...

My husband may be a sleazy mercenary....but I'm the handsome Aragorn!

Deb*

Sci-Fi Fun
Enjoy. I'm Bobba Fett.

www.tk421.net/character/

-TODD

Joel,

The killer in all this recall hooey is one simple little thing; Davis was termed out. He could not run for Governor again. A complete lame duck. Funnier still, there's a possibility (slight though it may be) that because of the recall, he could conceivably run for Governor again. And while I'd never vote for the guy, I appreciate the cojones it took to suggest it.

As far as my choice for Governor? Hobsons choice really, no to the recall, Bustamante as my choice for replacement (I wasn't really thrilled with *any* of the 130+ choices).

Have no fear Joel, things'll straighten out eventually, just hang tight while the coaster works its way up the first hill.

-Andrew

Arnold a dolt?
A dolt? Hardly. Otherwise he would have just been yet another forgotten musclehead who tried to make it big in Hollywood. The man must have something on the ball to have had such a lengthy career.

The dolts would be whoever came up for the provision for a recall in the first place. As bad as Davis sounds [and as I'm reading more and more about my new home state of CA, it seems like many of these things Davis is being blamed are about stuff that happened before he even took office], I'd have preferred that he be allowed to serve out his term, then be voted out. The constant voting on every single thing and the various givebacks and recalls seems to take power out of the hands of the voters more than anything else.

Of the lot who ran, I guess I would have preferred Bustamante, though Flynt would have been great for the entertainment value. And I'm willing to give the new gov a chance, but don't like the people he's got advising him, so I'm not optimistic. The only good thing I can say is that at least he isn't a social conservative, or at least he doesn't seem to be.

I suppose I deserve an ass-kissing, er, kicking for even asking, but why not? Instead of the governor-elect, of all the candidates register to run, whom would you have preferred succeed Davis?

Just curious.

Let the beatings begin.

Until next time. . .

Jim Hess

Harlan's comment gave me the giggles. Gary Coleman is a smart guy, but ends up as a security guard, on the brink of being homeless, while Aanold, who is a dolt, becomes Govna. And you all wonder why I am far left. Phew.

-----------------------

" Well, first of all, Gandhi was once asked what he thought about Western civilization. And his answer was he thought maybe it would be a good idea. And you can say the same about capitalism. Maybe it would be a good idea -- we've never had anything remotely resembling it. And the reason we haven't is, you know, the owning class would never permit it. Because they know perfectly well that if capitalist institutions were established, it would destroy the economy in no time. So therefore they insist on a powerful state that intervenes to protect them from the ravages of the market. Okay? Everybody seems to know this except the economists."

--Noam Chomsky

The Government we deserve
Thanks for the link to Harlan’s quote. He ended it with the quote I kept thinking about - "People get pretty much the kind of government they deserve."

Look, people in Arizona have absolutely no right to laugh about the governor of any state. Our history starts with a governor who lost the election for his third term, so called it null and void and re-polled until he won. In the last 30 years we’ve had two kicked out of the governor’s chair – fraud and stupidity. Per our constitution, the replacement is the Secretary of State, who is usually a nice civil servant who was elected as reward for years of dedicated service and suddenly finds himself or herself in charge. One of the Secretaries of State proceeded to pass away two weeks after being appointed, and thus Bruce Babbit was brought unto us. Oh yeah, one governor also quit to be an ambassador in South America – apparently more exciting than being the governor of AZ. It’s all so ludicrous that there was a local hit musical here called “Guv” based on this information.

All that being said, we get the government we deserve. We elected these people. We elected Arnold. We elected Bush. No, I didn’t vote for them, and you didn’t vote for them, but We, the people, sure did.

Arizonans with a brain (and, yes, I know previous postings have questioned whether such a creature exists) are scared about the California elections. Arizona has always been a California wannabe – we’re just always ten years behind. It can happen here, and it will. (Governor Glen Campbell? Maybe better, Governor Alice Cooper.) So we can’t take the same “Oh it’s your state not mine” mentality that some are taking. (Not picking on any postings here – I think I understand the context and realize that visitors to this site are not washing their hands of the situation, just referring to the effects of distance. However, there is a smugness in some national and local reports that smacks of “it will never happen here.” How quickly people forget Bonzo’s good friend.) What it means is “me” has to make sure that the next “we” does something a little closer to correct, so that We, the people, when we get the government we deserve, deserve something better than we are getting. (Honest, it was profound when I wrote it.)

an Ellison quote...
In keeping with the almost quaint tradition of talking about Harlan Ellison on this board, here is a quote about the CA. election that showed up over on Infinite Matrix yesterday.

http://www.infinitematrix.net/faq/editorials/index.html

Also, I picked up the Edgeworks Abbey/iBooks HC edition of VIC and Blood yesterday from my local comic shop - Dreamscape in Bethlehem, PA. - and it's a very nice package. People will have to decide for themselves if the new text piece is worth the price break between the HC and the TPB edition but it was for me. It's nice to know that the voices of those 2 characters has ownly grown sharper and more clearly defined over the years instead of fading or becoming some sort of nostalgic recreation of something that has passed into the mists. It's very apparent to me that those voices are still very much alive in Harlan's head. Good on ya.

- Barney Dannelke

DTS: If Romeo was a secular humanist, then how would his relationship with Friar Lawrence be handled?

Mark

Apropos of nothing (well maybe the references to atheism) in the posts immediately below...I think some hotshot director should do a remake of "Romeo and Juliet" (I know --another one?) -- but this one would be for the "Y" (or is it "Z") generation now hitting their teens. And Romeo should be a secular humanist, whose mother and father are scientists and atheists, while Juliet is the daughter of a Fundamentalist Preacher who is also a famous Televangelist (sort of a Jerry Falwell type). (Maybe Tybalt could be a bomber of abortion clinics) Yeah, it's a bit trite...but it sure would be fun. Hell, it might even get as many people riled up as Mel Gibson's "The Passion."
Gotta keep the scales balanced.
--DTS

Dorie's Feet
There's a very real possibility that Dorie possesses two distinct sets of chromosomes, each set fighting to give shape to its own personal vision of physical perfection. I read that that's possible in the NY Times, so it must be true. Of course, the article discussed a situation involving two distinct sets of HUMAN chromosomes.

Alternatively, I've also heard that the nastiest viral infections involve the transfer of bits of the DNA of domestic animals (pig, duck, etc.) into the viral RNA that replicates in human cells. Maybe she just had a really most sincerely bad Hong Knog flu in her formative years.

Whichever turns out to be the case, the moral of the story is to just keep reading anything you find lying around on the internet. After a few years, you will be able to explain absolutely anything, several times over! I think this forum's tedious and possibly never-ending sewage flow on whether Arnold should or should not be in politics must be related somehow, but I won't hazard a guess as to why.

horror films...
I hate the recent crop of horror remakes, as well as the endless movies based on video games. I guess it's the 21st century version of movies based on hit songs, a la "You Light Up My Life."

The original films are good enough for me.

What do you mean by 70s-style horror films, Frank? The Texas Chainsaw remake?

The first Blair Witch was an interesting gimmick, though not original. Haven't seen the second [I generally avoid sequels] but I've heard it might have been better as a stand-alone film.
I don't think much of most of the horror films of late--the many franchises and sequels have really done a number on the genre. About the only decent one I can think of lately has been The Ring, and that was a dumbed down version of a Japanese film.

BTW, thanks to the poster who cleared up the thing about Davis and the car tax. I just couldn't believe someone would be so stupid as to sign off on that, and it turns out that no one did.

Does anyone think Bustamante will have trouble in 2006 since he didn't stand by Davis, or at least, because he isn't perceived as having stood by him?

Dorie, Harlan. . .

Apparently Bruce is somewhere weeping into his copy of St. Thomas Aquinas, for he seems to have shugged off before his moment of Kairos with not even one simple transfiguration. Oh well.

Yours in fraternal Atheism,

Steve Dooner

FRANK: This Inquiring Mind wants to know: what the hell do water fowl have to do with Rob & Brian? Were you being speciest? Or is calling someone a duck the latest very hip(hop) type of insult? Furthermore, why would you young people appropriate this particular species as the symbol of loud-mouthed, arrogant behavior (not that I'm saying anyone HERE, on this board, is loud-mouthed or arrogant -- hey, it's the political season and I've a right to dance).
OR...am I completely wrong-headed in my assumptions? Is it possible you were merely experiencing a moment of what clinical psychiatrists call Nostrodamuschism? Were you, in fact, presaging the comments that Harlan would make about Dorie and her webbed feet? Are you some sort of cyberspace Kreskin?
I remain on the edge of my seat as I await answers to these and other questions (which you'll know even before I ask them).
--DTS
P.S. DID anybody out there get a chance to check out the nine episodes of "The Tick" on the newly released DVD? Hilllllarious!

Harlan, how'd you know about my feet??

OK I put on my trifocals and I found the post. Is he serious??? Who are "you guys"? Is it a bad thing to be an enigma? And as a Jewish Atheist with a reasonable grasp of the fundamentals of grammar, may I please please apply for the position of one of Your Friends Who Look Foolish To Posterity?

or maybe it was Posterior....putting the specs back on now....

OK, Andrew...
See the forum for response.

DORIE:

Yes (he was able to tell her cheerily), your eyesight is failing, your pre-Alzheimer's is in full blossom, and you've stumbled over your own great webbed feet.

Bruce Miller's charming gardyloo is precisely where we left it:

Wednesday 8 october 2003 / 3:32:14 and counting.

Widdle kisses'n'baby-nibbles from

Yr. pal, Harlan

Now I'm ever so keen to read what it was this Bruce Miller posted, and I don't see it. Was it obnoxious enough to have been removed by the webmaster? Is it right in front of me but I need new glasses? I always like a bit of sophomoric syntactical illiteracy with my after-dinner cordial.

Andrew--

I think by "we" Sheryl meant the 6 out of 10 people in her office.

That said, isn't there an actual psychopathic lying murdering cheating stealing Republican or three to worry about? Like the one running the USA, and his cronies?

Sheryl,

I'm gonna break my own rule (no long winded political diatribes in the pavilion) to answer some of your allegations regarding the recent recall debacle.

>> The reason we voted for Arnold....

First, you might want to rethink this “we” stuff. I was firmly against the recall (my dislike for Davis as a person notwithstanding) as were many here in California.

>>1--Nobody (not even a Republican) would throw away upwards of a fifty million dollars in PAYCHECKS he won't get for a governor's salary…

Who says he’s really giving up anything but his time? Last time I checked, he hasn’t exactly been the most “in demand” celebrity of late. Plus, his business dealings and investments have given him a very tidy nest egg.

>>2--It's not like he's a REAL Republican; most people call him a RINO. What he is, is a fiscally conservative social liberal. What's gotten us into this mess is fiscally liberal (with taxpaer money, that is) social liberalism.

How long have you lived in this state? Since Proposition 13 (maybe even earlier), this state has had its finances devastated by referendums voted on by the voting public. Not only that, but much of the current damage occurred due to policies enacted by the *previous* (read, Republican) governor. Plus, we currently have a president who, in less than three years has managed to, not only wipe out a massive budget surplus, but also run up the largest deficit in modern history. You think that maybe, this might affect the states just a little bit? Ask the other 47 states with large shortfalls where the malfeasance is.

I’m gonna cut this as short as I can by winding up with this;
1. Arnie can’t unilaterally repeal the “car” tax as per his campaign promise (a tax that Davis had little to do with, the hike was automatic).
2. Groper gate wasn’t Davis (I don’t think) as it came too late to do any harm. I do think that maybe Arnold’s people may have put the right words, in the right ears, to set Davis up though.
3. No one, I mean no one, really knew the extent of the budget shortfall at the time of Davis’ reelection. I think we all knew it was gonna be pretty bad though.
4. How much of the taxpayers money really needed to be wasted on this? $30 million? $70 million? Was it really worth it?
5. The recall started almost immediately after the last election. It was going nowhere until Issa (whatta prick!) dumped a shit-ton of money into it. No Republican conspiracy? Fueled by voter anger? Whatta bunch of hooey.
6. Maybe I oughta suggest that we take this to the other board (and now my blood pressure’s up again, christ…)

My apologies for the abnormally (for me anyway) long post. You might notice that I’m a bit cranky…

Yours in anguish,
Andrew

Sheryl, welcome to the nude bar-B-Q, but you are wrong about your love muffin Aanold.

He doesn't need any more money, so your money issue is moot. And remember, he has investments that make money as he sits in the Governer's chair.

Power is the main reason people run for office. Aanold wants power, and has a sick need to be adored. He may think he has the right solutions, but so do most demagogues.

I bet the reason you voted for him was because you saw him as an outsider; like a Jessie Ventura type. Ventura himself was asked about Aanold's chances, and Jessie said the the GOP would control him to the point where his original vision would be taken over.

Aanold is a major insider. He has been friends with noted Republican scum for years. And never trust a Hummer driver who promises a clean environment.

---------

Dim the lights, Rob and Brian are up for the next slow dance.

Ducks.

--------------

I was wondering about all the 70's style horror movies being made lately. I never got the memo saying that style was back in vogue. Well, as long as the movies are good. Anything beats the endless remakes of Scream.

And they need another Blair Witch film.

-------------

"Nothing is so admirable in politics as a short memory."
John Kenneth Galbraith

The reason we voted for Arnold....
It's been a long time since I've been in "speaking" mode, but I just have to comment on a couple of things y'all are assuming here.

I'll start with YES, I DID VOTE FOR ARNOLD. So did 6 of the 10 people in my office. We discussed it a lot before we did it; I'm going to tell you why we did, because I think the reasoning is pretty typical.

1--Nobody (not even a Republican) would throw away upwards of a fifty million dollars in PAYCHECKS he won't get for a governor's salary (not even the California governor's salary) unless he's at least serious about TRYING to make some changes.

2--It's not like he's a REAL Republican; most people call him a RINO. What he is, is a fiscally conservative social liberal. What's gotten us into this mess is fiscally liberal (with taxpaer money, that is) social liberalism. Maybe the sheer force of his personality will be a sufficient bridge between the fiscal/social conservatives and the fiscal/social liberals to get us in a slightly more stable situation until the world economy cycles up. The world economy is as much, if not more of, a factor in California as the US economy, and both are going to have to do better before California recovers significantly.

3--He's basically a good guy. Nobody I know took ANY of those allegations seriously, because everyone knows--including all of you, if you think about it for more than a minute--that if any of the stuff these women were claiming had actually happened, some of them would have called Gloria Allred WHEN it happened, and tried to collect some of the millions he has in the bank. That's why the allegations didn't come out until 5 days before the elections; the LA Times didn't want anyone to have time to disprove them. But a number of other papers were able to link 4, maybe even 6, of the accusers to people directly involved in the Davis circle, even at that late date. Doesn't bode well for the rest of them.

4--He's a very intelligent guy. Nobody gets where he is, not just in show business, but in the other arenas he's involved in, without having something between his ears.

I was a petition person--kept a couple around, and if people mentioned they thought Davis should be out the door, I told them "I have a petition you can sign, if you haven't already." I sent in 30+ signatures that way--seven sheets with five each, but the last one wasn't full. Since I work at a major university, you can guess the differential between liberals and conservatives around here, and I can tell you that it wasn't just the conservatives signing. Most of the people who signed the petition I had signed for the same specific reason I did--THE BIG FAT LIE.

Gray Davis was saying right up to election day that Bill Simon's numbers were wrong, that there was nothing like a $20 billion dollar deficit on the way. Then what, 2 months later, he jumps up and says, 'well, yes, and actually, it's not 20 billion, it's 25--no wait, it's 30--no wait, it's 35--no wait, it's 38--'

And then it was published--I don't think it was the LA Times, but it was one of the major newspapers here in the state; I check in with most of them online a couple of times a week, so I never remember where I've seen something first--but one of them published a story proving that DAVIS KNEW BACK IN JULY 02, 3+ MONTHS BEFORE THE ELECTIONS, THAT NOT ONLY WAS $20 MILLION RIGHT, IT WAS LOW! He had the reports in his own, personal, hot little hand and read them in front of aides. Discussed them. And stood then in front of people on the campaign trail and lied through his teeth about what he knew. That's what the story said, and that's what people began to find out.

People signed petitions and voted to recall Gray Davis for what they percieved as a moral FRAUD, ladies and gentlemen. Not some "Republican Conspiracy" engineered to ruin the state--because they found out that he had known and had LIED. Repeatedly. It wasn't legally fraud, no. But almost everyone I know who signed a petition felt that they had been defrauded; that they wouldn't have voted for him had he admitted the truth. I can say for certain it's why I downloaded the petition, signed it, and kept one around for others to sign, were they so inclined.

It had nothing to do with policies, the economy or anything else. It was because we felt DEFRAUDED. And unlike most of the states in this nation, in California we had a provision to do something about it.

There have been recall petitions filed on every governor in this state for the last 50 years, including Reagan. The reason this one worked is because this particular governor betrayed his OWN power base. There were obviously a lot more people voting on the recall than signed the petitions, and a lot of them had different reasons for VOTING for the recall, but the reason most of us signed the petitions was The Lie.

Even with the recall certified, every registered Republican in the state could have voted yes on the recall, and it wouldn't have been enough. It took the Democrats to remove Gray Davis. And it took the Democrats to elect Arnold. The real Republicans were the 13% who voted for McClintock (which I considered, but he's more valuable at this point as an ally in the legislature than as a governor, to my mind.)

I'm grateful to have a smart, independently wealthy, concerned citizen headed for Sacramento with the desire to make changes foremost on his mind, instead of how to raise money to put in his re-election campaign/retirement fund.

I'm a Smiley Girl. We're getting a new governor, and I've got my LOTR Trilogy Tuesday tickets in my pocket. Life is good in California this morning.

TO BRUCE MILLER:

Hallelujah, I have seen the Light.

Whatta helluvan epiphany!

Even were I not swayed by the egregious elitist presumption of your post, sir, I would certainly be convinced by the depth and vastness of its lack of logic, relativism, or rhetoric; not to mention the succoring misspellings, misuses of language, and sophomoric syntactical illiteracies.

But I AM swayed, hallelujah! You have brought me to god. The next question, however, is the sticky one: which god is it you want me to acknowledge? Wouldn't it be just the shits, s'far as you're concerned for my place in the Pantheon of Posterity, if you'd brought me to god, only to have me proclaim obeisance to Ra or Kali? Ahura Mazda, the Persian sky god, the god of wisdom, always seemed to me to be a nifty choice if one were casting about for a serviceable deity.

In fact, sir, and unbelievable as it may seem, there has already been written and used as final dissertation for a Doctor of Divinity degree from a (get this, it'll killya) major ultra- Fundamentalist Christian University, a brilliant and exhaustive study of my writings and their value for intelligent Christian Fundamentalists. I've read it, and it's insightful, smart, and gracious. When I sent a copy to Gary Wolfe, the co-author of the recent OSU Press study of my work, he was similarly impressed by its erudition.

And so, bizarre as it may seem, I'm already SSSSSSAVED, and you need not worry about me. Selah.

yrs. in Ahura Mazda, harlan ellison

The husband's busy, and I'm getting increasingly so. We probably won't be in for a while, in case any start to worry.

I've not much to say on The Californian Steroid-induced Sexual Offender Governor, except to point out that it could be worse. Reagan could've run again, and probably would have won. And, he would've been more lifelike in his performance as Governor than the Austrian Groper could ever be.

Sleep well, Brian and Rob. Remember that the sand in the box isn't for eating, but making your roads for your Stanley Kubrick inspired Hot Wheels collection. And, with that, I say Good Day to you, Sirs and Madams.

Melissa

Also fairly new here

Hello and welcome to Joel McLemore :)

I have GOT to close these damn blinds at night.

I'd also like to add that Harlan-baiting is also a little out of place on this forum. I'm referring specifically to Bruce's request that Mr. Ellison, "write some sort of apologetics for your whole athiesm/scepticism gig!" Hasn't he been goaded and irritated enough in other environments? And hasn't he already defended in more public environments, with eloquence and passion, the right of a well informed person to change his mind as often as necessary to align his life best with what seems true at a given moment?

Given his general and well publicized dislike of electronic media, it's a bloomin' miracle that he checks in here at all. I was competely shocked the first time I saw his name heading a post. If this forum doesn't maintain itself as a place where he can find a group that knows his work well enough to discuss it, and if it doesn't offer him the respect that 40+ years of down-in-the-trenches public combat deserves, why will he continue to come here?

Moderator? Who dat?
The only moderator on here has seen enough of Rob and Brian to know when they are engaging in something truly malicious and when they are just exchanging tongue-in-cheek banner.

However, if either ends a post with "Good day, Sir! I said GOOD DAY!" then rest assured I will take immediate action.

Take the Personal Attacks Offline

Brian and Rob,

I'm not one of the moderators, but I respectfully suggest that you both cease the personal attacks and insults IMMEDIATELY on this forum, and take your disputes to private email. Just as Harlan wouldn't want two people fighting in his house, you shouldn't consider this forum an arena in which to exchange verbal blows. Okay?

-- Jon

Rob, you are an IMBECILE.

Rob calls me a "very misled Schwarzenegger-lover." Well, he's entitled to his stupidity. But he is NOT entitled to make this claim on the basis of my post.

Please recall that I'd said that the reason I wasn't _too_ disturbed was because I'm a continent away from the Turgid One's domain. I also mentioned his family's background among the Nazis, his expressed admiration for Hitler, and his "chumminess with the old California Republican Guard, the fascist creeps who turned up in Reagan's "kitchen cabinet," the World Anti-Communist League, and just about anything Ed Meese laid his grimy fingers upon."

Most people would read this as an indication that I do have a deep suspicion of the guy. Even my qualifications about this stuff couldn't _possibly_ amount to any degree of love for the guy.

So, in that spirit, I'd like to mention Rob's sexual desires for barnyard animals, his weekend recreation of hiring overweight women to shit on his groin and vomit on his face, and his continuing efforts to share these activities with the local boy Scout troops. Obviously, I say this out of love for the guy. But maybe I'm misled.

BEN: A Philistine, am I? Fine.
But can you name a single watchable movie besides TRUE LIES the man's made in the last ten years?

Um,'WEASEL', that is - not weasle. It is now my favorite word so I better learn to spell it right. OK, that's enough of me for another day.

I just moved to California last week, and they elected Arnold a week later...talk about bad luck!

If I could have voted [I checked, one has to register 15 days before an election so I couldn't have] I probably would have voted for Flynt, just to hear him give a State of the State Address.

It sounds like Davis was a bad deal too. Things will be hard regardless of who is governor. The ultra-right people don't seem to like Arnold much, judging from the talk radio shows so he must not be all bad. I'm just leery of his lack of experience, and it's often a rude awakening for people who are successful in business and then try to go into politics. And the people he has advising him is also a bad sign.

I thought Bustmante would do better. Do you think he's ruined his political career?

Oh well, I guess if he messes it up he'll be recalled or maybe even voted out in 2006. Just hope it isn't too bad in the meantime.

Anyway, I'm new here...been an Ellison fan since high school, though.

Hoping a 6 1/2 hour+ space between posts is enough
Ed,

Re: your recall correction.

I'd like to be able to weasle my way out (I SHOULD go into politics myself) and say that's EXACTLY what I meant. That the recall law had been enacted as a move AGAINST Southern Pacific's vile long-standing hegemony. But - clearly - I was caught flashing my dick to the wrong judge.

I haven't decided yet whether or not I deserved your CLOSING shot (ONE side of my brain said I obviously did; the other said 'let's go clobber the bastard'). Usually I DO check the niceties before 'spouting'. In this case, I heard the history behind the law summarized on NPR and settled with that - confident I heard things right (I had only JUST walked into the room). I didn't - as I often do - follow up the report with research (I often get obsessed with new information and pursue further data on it). Hence, I opened my yap prematurely.

Actually, I do appreciate the information. It's bloody interesting.

Of course, this doesn't diminish the dimension of abuse of a law that was meant to stop a railroad. All Davis is really guilty of (and hopefully I'm not forgetting anything as I say this) is a spending hike that exceeded the effects of inflation and not revealing things when he should have about where money was going. But the same was true during the previous Republican administration. (In fact, spending from the general fund, as I recall, grew by a SMALLER percentage in the first four years of Davis' tenure than during the preceding four years under Wilson). I hate many things Davis did. But it's not like we took down some looming Nixon figure. I didn't read the recall law itself but this all implies to me that it needs modifying to address unlawful behavior SPECIFICALLY, not just an official fucking up.

...and Frank,

Arnold will have no choice. Reagan raised taxes immensely when he was governor - after campaign claims promising otherwise - and simply got away with it by blaming his predecessor. Arnold just pulled the same stunt, making "crazy, impossible" crowd-pleasing promises that he won't be able to keep. And astonishingly the crowds here are too lame, stupid, and ignorant to grasp all this: essentially, apart from bailing out those taking legal flack for the deregulations that led to ENRON (BEFORE Davis came along), Arnold will be doing largely the same bit as Davis did. The question will be - in his efforts to protect his wealthy constituents - WHO will he raise the tax burden on and WHAT will he deregulate? AND what will he do to the few services left? I kind of perceive it as the ghost of Wilson running the store. It's rather scary.

I KNOW what to expect...I just want to be able to survive it.

Rolling in a Conversational Hand Grenade

Folks,

Just thought I'd pass along some interesting links about the California Governor's alleged abuse of women.

Oh, not Arnold's record -- but Gray Davis's. Pretty disturbing stuff:

http://jillstewart.net/issue1004.html

The original article she mentions is here:

http://windsofchange.net/archives/004099.html

-- Jon

Very possible that Aanold may be more liberal than we give him credit for. He could actually do some good things--by mistake, of course.

And I'd bet he will raise taxes within a year. Trust me.

The GOP will hate him very soon.

------------------------

Stupid quote of the week:

"The American left is the only intellectual force in Western history to gain moral superiority by being wrong. In world history, I can think of only one other movement that has gained moral and intellectual superiority in this way, the mullahs of Islamic fundamentalism."

R. Emmett Tyrrell

Rob: The recall mechanism was introduced in 1911 by then Gov. Hiram Johnson, who was one choleric SOB (read up on the relationship he had with his father). It was one of many Progressive-oriented measures attempting to rid state government of corruption, which, yes, thanks to the coffers and avaricious shenanigans of Southern Pacific, the Big Four, et al., ran rampant and unchecked. The mechanism's intent was to empower the populace with a way to eject a public official if he proved too corrupt. If he, yes indeedy, broke the law. It came about not from "grimy and corrupt" roots, but as a reaction of the same, with the best intentions. Regrettably, the Progressive movement (and its related Bull Moose run of Theodore Roosevelt of 1912) floundered just before the howitzers fired in August. As we realized so painfully this morning, the mechanism obviously went down. But even back in 1911, opponents questioned whether the mechanism went too far, particularly since it applied across the board. Judges, justices, and the like.

A great book that deals with this (in part) is Kevin Starr's INVENTING THE DREAM: CALIFORNIA THROUGH THE PROGRESSIVE ERA, the second book in his excellent series. Helps to know the niceties before spouting.

"Now we just need another recall so we can elect us a good solid Harlequin to put everything in order."

Robin Williams in the Governor's manse...

Yep, I can see it.

Finally getting my Diamond Press copy of "Vic and Blood". Nice to see the author's still in the habit of keeping us poor fools waiting

Resident Hellion, return to lurkmode...

We feel your pain, Californians

I want to offer all the Californians my deepest sympathy on the election of your new governor. You guys didn't deserve that. I hope that you will have libraries and social services left after the Terminator.

BRUCE: Spare me the "more enlightened because you read ancient theology" dreck. No one, not even the authors of the Rg Veda or the Upansihads, imagined a universe as vast, as multi-faceted and as beautiful as the one science has given us.

The true enlightenment that comes from ancient texts is not one that supports silly theological notions about dying and ressurecting gods or eternal life in some meaningless heavenly autocracy.

Read the ancient wisdom correctly, and you will know that Quoheleth (or Ecclesiastes) barely believed in any sort of divinity that made a damn's worth of difference in this world. Also, Moses, in his sermon on Mt. Pisgah, insisted that his people "Choose life," not the death-centered theology that Christians and "after-lifers" adore.

Eventually, Bruce, we will outgrow the need for theology departments, and we will learn that ancient texts--whenever they were any good--were about human wisdom, human psychology, human truths and human suffering. I'll venture to say that there's barely any kind of transcendence in the Bible at all. The whole concept of God in that book is just a reflection of the best and worst human qualities. Don't believe me? Read the book of Job.

If you want transcendence, you can try on Buddhism and even that will only lead you to perfect atheism. The Buddha realized 2,500 years ago that all the gods are within us. When you truly enlarge your consciousness and say goodbye to superstition, you will be a happier wiser and more "spiritual" person. When you realize that this life is propably it, you'll start to love this life. Try to turn on to atheism, man. It's the future.

Steve Dooner
Pastoral Atheist

What's everyone complaining about?

We have our nation's first governor who is based on a Harlan Ellison character. "From _Soldier_ to Governator" - it's an inspiring story, dammit.

Now we just need another recall so we can elect us a good solid Harlequin to put everything in order.

Aaahnuld Matters to You and You and You
Brian's response to the new California guv is a response I've heard a lot lately.....I don't live in Cauleeforneeya so my only concern is to be angered by what and who happened.

You don't get off that easy folks. California is one of the largest economies in the world. World. Planet. I don't live there (lived there for one year in 1968), don't plan on living there, and yet I am very concerned with what is happening.

If California goes down the tubes, this country will be in big big trouble. How can something so large fail and not affect everyone else who resides here (an abroad)?

Yes, there have been a lot of jokes over the past few months about those cwwaaaazyyyyyy Californians and their cwwaaaazyyy recall, but whether it's was Davis who was going to sink the state quicker than any quake, or whether it will be Auuunuld, or whether it will be some other nutty event in the neverending tale of the state's troubles......if they sink, we all sink.

Think about it.

Yes, I am a Republican. No, I am not an Ahnold backer. If I had my say, I would have gone with McClintock.....but hey, he's never squished and alien (unless he's run over some border-crosser while jaunting toward Mehico for some cheap booze and ho's).

-TODD

Lecture Time!

I can tell that very misled Schwarzenegger-lover, Brian (whose complacency reminds me of voters here), EXACTLY why Arnold (with his fallacious "for the people" dribble) can quite conceivably do worse damage than the previous governor (just through policy alone fer chrissake): he is being guided and advised by ex-Republican Gov. Pete Wilson, the very guy who, in fact, started our problems (and no one remembering it; THAT, of course, is the idea) by signing an over-reaching deregulation bill for energy companies - in turn leading to the ENRON debacle and price controls by oil companies. Given Arnold knows nothing about running a state, Wilson has in a rather ironic way taken back the governor's chair.

I'd like to tell you an important historical fact about this recall law of ours: it emerged in the rumble and dust of 19th century railroad companies (manipulators of just about everything back then) who sought to deal with any politicians interfering with their sovereignty. Never had anything to do with penalizing a politician for breaking the law, or the such. So, its very roots are grimy and corrupt.

Several people I told this to admitted they wouldn't have participated in the recall election had they known these facts. The only reality people saw was the one Republicans wanted to paint. Indeedy, Republicans generally win races on the basis of peoples' ignorance. People see only what's RIGHT in front of them - they've no ability to project, to see the bigger picture. This is what most typically gives politicians power.

various and sundry

Jeff Lampert: Wow, that was a while ago, wasn't it? Glad you found the columns worthwhile. Your girlfriend is one brave gal -- I mean, Senegal is one thing, but Sunnyvale???!!!

Cindy wants to see the pictures. Eventually, I guess, but it's not real high on my priority list. I have a lot of thank-you notes to write, a reading of sorcery and suspense tales on the 20th, a big party with my Gentle Giant friends at the end of the month, a possible essay for an academic anthology due at year's end, and serious thought about my next book project.

Lee: you brought in ballet dancing. Oddly enough, in my book and a number of times on the speaking tour, I mentioned ballet as well as football whenever people brought up the "women in porn and the sex trades are oppressed and exploited" argument. Where are the efforts to rescue football players and ballet dancers from the ghastly things they do to their bodies for money? (Not to mention boxers.) Although I can get as excited as anyone over a game or a performance, there's something about pro ball and ballet that kind of reminds me of bear baiting or blacks engaged in bare fisticuffs at the turn of the last century for the entertainment of wealthy white guys. (Except in the case of ballet the audience tends to be wealthy white gals.)

On the brighter side, did you ever read Toni Bentley's fine memoir, _Winter Season_? She was in the corps de ballet at -- New York City Ballet, was it? Anyway, under Balanchine. Lovely book; skillfully and sensitively written. Wonder whatever happened to her. . . ?

I'm not as bugged about Schwarzenegger's win as most, but then again, I'm here in Pennsylvania, an entire continent away from the entire mess. And I'm tempted to say that Arnold probably won't be any _worse_ than nearly any other candidate for high office... but I said that about George Bush in 2000, and he turned out to be a major fuckin' demon (to borrow some Hicks), so maybe I ought to keep my wonderful hand-cut-crystal-opinions to myself.

Instead, I'll toss out another opinion. Has anyone else gotten really, really fed up with the "politics of celebrity" chat that turns up every time something like this happens? It's as though every semi-intellectual gets a radio signal from Central Command to write an editorial, or Web blog, or chat-piece about the cheapening of politics, how Americans are such doofuses they confuse the celebrity and show-biz with real life, and how this signals the coming Apocalypse, or something. It's truly amazing how so many well-educated, thoughtful, and intellectual people can zero in on the _same damn opinion_ and mouth it perfectly.

But politics and celebrity isn't anything new. We just emerged from the Recorded Century, where radio, films, and (later) television presented our politicians as faces and voices, and not just speeches reprinted in the newspapers. We've had celebrity politicians since FDR and Huey Long. We've had celebrities active in politics, as speechmakers and campaign activists, since the 1930s-- Orson Welles stumped for FDR, and we all know about the campaign the studios ran against Upton Sinclair. John F. Kennedy was at least as much a celebrity as he was a statesman-- and he was President more than _forty years ago_. So why are people wailing about this as though it's some new, sinister development?

Okay, this is separate from Schwarzenegger himself. His family's got a Nazi background, and there's that Reifenstahlian body-fetish stuff in bodybuilding, and that comment about admiring Hitler's political skills was amazingly stupid (tho if it'd been uttered by, say, Ian Kershaw, no one would have minded). As long as he stuck to movies, none of this had any importance beyond "do I want to see this guy shoot people?"

Personally, I doubt Schwarzenegger'll be trying to herd Jews onto trains for ontological-reassignment procedures. But he is excessively chummy with the old California Republican Guard, the fascist creeps who turned up in Reagan's "kitchen cabinet," the World Anti-Communist League, and just about anything Ed Meese laid his grimy fingers upon.

FAISAL,

I hear ya. Despite my better judgement, I still would've LOVED to have seen his take on I AM LEGEND, but we can't have all the candy in the store window.

ALEX,

"... NO MORE SCHWARZENEGGER MOVIES!!! Woo-hoo!"

Philistine.

becasue for becasue. Damn!

The Recall: Rich is a better man than I, becasue he can find humor in the fact that The Black Plowman is Gov. of California. I can't get past the travesty of having a third-rate action hero overseeing the world's sixth largest economy. It just keeps getting creepier.

Bruce: You have ceramic balls and you have just placed them in Harlan's Atomic Kilne.

Mark

Rich,

Weirldy, the wife of one of New Hampshire's Senators, Kathleen Gregg, was abducted and robbed yesterday (she's okay).

Rob,

You forgot the followup from Patterson, after Springfield votes him back in and Homer out:

"Oh I'm so happy. I'm not much on speeches but it give me joy to...leave you in the filth you created. You're screwed, bye."

I think I'll skip the questions on why theology students would even be studying Ellison and how one person can alter the "natural course of history" when ALL of us are altering our courses of history everytime we do something (since "history" is a living thing and constantly being written---see Jim Davis' comments some months back) and comment on the recent recall election in California:

HA HA!

But seriously, you guys are being a bit hard on the Terminator. I mean, he's got experience in...uh, well, he has some good ideas on how...umm, well, lessee, ummmmmm...Wait. I got it now. Rob Lowe and Jay Leno stumped for him so that's gotta be good for something, right? Right?

(And I can't wait to see the movie where Arnold is Governor and masked terrorists kidnap his hot looking daughter and he goes after 'em himself 'cause he's the Governor and he can do what he wants and then it turns out the terrorists are Democrats led by Gray Davis and the alien from the Predator movies. Should be good stuff.)

(And I thought what Lee said in regards to posterity was good.)

"tiger-mauled" being the adjective back there.... in other words it's pretty damn stupid to cavort with tigers in the first place, no sympathy for Roy.

Hi Harlan,

Look--you and your friends might look pretty foolish to posterity if you don't write some sort of apologetics for your whole athiesm/scepticism gig! Future theological students are going to be studying all your works with awe and trepedation--and then they'll see and all that skeptic junk they'll think, "Wow--are these the same people?" "Why did their brains suddenly shut off when it came to the ancient holy texts?"

I know by telling you this I am upsetting the natural course of history, but I can't stand by and watch you guys become a major ironical enigma until the end of time (and beyond) can I?

You need to write some sort of letter to posterity explaining yourselves so you can receive the respect and recognition you so rightly deserve--before it's too late!



Frank, Hey, I heard the Commies won the World Series, congratulations.

Political Anagrams
According to Dave Barry, Dick Cavett noticed that when you rearrange the letters of "Spiro Agnew", you get "Grow a Penis." Barry once noted that "Paul Tsongas" is an anagram of "Gaseous Plant."

But today's anagram is the topper. While flipping channels between the agonizing end to the Cubs game and something about an election of some kind on CNN (and the Daily Show), I saw a snippet of some sort of documentary about Ahnuld on VH-1. As they went to a commercial, the words "Arnold Schwarzenegger" appeared on screen, then permuted themselves to become...drum roll please..."He's Grown Large and Crazed".

The defense rests :)

BTW, Cindy, I think we're about to have a Westworld remake here anyway 8P

Also, I'd like to put out a belated thank you to David Loftus, who pointed me to his articles on West Africa when I first posted, many moons ago, regarding my girlfriend's tour in the Peace Corps in Senegal and my upcoming visit. Both of us enjoyed your articles immensely. (As for the trip in Feb, I had a blast! In June, she finished her time of service and is now in the process of moving out here).

Lastly, Rob, regarding that Simpsons episode, let's face it: Everything I Needed To Know I Learned From the Simpsons. Your quote sums up the recall perfectly, as opposed to the last gubernational election ("Don't blame me! I voted for Kodos"). Now if someone had fed the Gov-Elect a three-eyed fish...

How upsetting!
Sniffle,

No Conan 3....

I'm off to drown my sorrows.

FAQ

It astounds me that you guys are so completely failing to see the bright side of this election.

Sure, this means the world's fifth-biggest economy in the world and, arguably, its third-most influential population are going togo into the toilet faster than a drunken frat boy "buying" his first "Buick", but just THINK ...

... NO MORE SCHWARZENEGGER MOVIES!!!

Woo-hoo! Break out the champagne and Cheetos!

I'm reliving that Simpsons episode with Steve Martin, where Homer challenges the current Sanitation Commissioner to an election. In the debate the Commissioner (Steve) tells the crowds something like: "if you want an experienced public servant vote for me; but if you want to believe a lot of impossible, crazy promises...by ALLLLLL means vote for this phony". The next shot shows us the headlines: 'Landslide Victory for Homer Simpson'.

...well, let's see now...we've already lost just about every medical clinic around for people without money, schools have been cut, welfare's been cut, research has been cut...Arnold says he wants to pay off the 34 billion dollar deficit through cuts alone - and there ARE lots of libraries throughout the state still draining on our cache, not to mention hospitals, coverage for the elderly, legal services, environment, and there are still some colleges and universities taking an awful lot from our taxpayers....OCEANS of potential resources to draw from...of a matter of fact - shit! - I don't think we even need these damn roads. We'll all just start using our private jets, fer chrissake. Yeah, onward 'n upward. I'll just sit back on my gilded tail and enjoy the ride.

And you people said I was crazy back in 1987....
when I said 2 of the stars of "Predator" would be state governors one day. Now: when can we expect Carl Weathers to announce his candidacy?

I just cannot believe it. Apparently you need no sort of training or education or anything--if you look good on camera, we in California will make you governor.

At this point, I feel like asking for all my tax money back, and going to live as a separatist, up in the...in whatever mountains around here that separatists hang out.

The only thing that makes this remotely bearable, is the thought that someone, somewhere has probably made a great deal of money off this fiasco, and will doubtless start another recall motion in a few months for this piece of ham. Maybe that will be our raison d'etre of the California government--constant recalls, while our society falls into chaos and we end up cooking our meals over the flaming trash cans that feature so prominently in every post-apocalyptic tv show.

Feh.

Harlan,
That was beautiful.

Cindy

Frank,
So was that.

:)
Cindy





All of y'all;

Sunuva BITCH!

Ahnold WON.

That means that he won't be starring in Westworld, and I had my heart set on a remake... not that anything could rival the original.

Cindy


David,
I'm glad you had a wonderful trip-- I look forward to enjoying it too through your pictures. Maybe you could post a link?
I hope you sell a truckload of books.
:)
Cindy

Ah, yes. My Corporate America Flourescent Lighting strained eyes originally misread your statement, Frank. Thanks, Jon.

-Matt

I think Frank's comment means "Has no one any sympathy for the tiger who mauled Roy?" and not "Has no one any sympathy for the tiger-mauled Roy?" If the former is true, the comment doesn't blame the tiger.

Cheers, Jon

Frank -- regarding your comment:

"Am I the only one who has no sympathy for the tiger mauled Roy? It was a wild animal, and had no place on a stage in Vegas. So there."

Are you suggesting that it was the tiger's fault that it was on stage in Vegas? Last I checked, it didn't just wander onto the stage straight from the wild...

-Matt

Publix Book Mart
Lee, the store in question was called Publix Book Mart. In Harlan's Cleveland days, it was not across from Playhouse square. It was down on Prospect Avenue, at the corner of ninth street. Harlan mentioned shoplifting at Publix in one of his earlier books--and the owner bragged about that ever after.

Publix was a terrific store, too. In my late teens, I bought a nearly complete run of Astounding Science Fiction, issues from 1937 through 1953, out of one of their locked-up, request access only, basement rooms. A dime a copy. I later sold them (mostly to Rusty Hevelin) to pay tuition at graduate school. And there was an even better used bookstore nearby, Kay's Books, with literally 2 million volumes. You could find anything in those stores.

Trouble is, when Mrs. Kay sold off her stock to a Chicagoan, and Publix moved and shrank to a tiny store, it destroyed the used book market in Cleveland. We'd never built up many small used bookstores, because of the enormous stock at Publix and Kay's It's still hard to find a good used book in these parts.

Posterity
About 15 years ago I was a ballet dancer working in Cleveland, performing at Playhouse Square for the Cleveland Ballet. There was a small bookshop directly across the street from the theatre where a much younger Harlan used to shoplift books. At least that's what the owner alleged when I bought one of Harlan's books there.

I like to imagine that over the intervening years the shop owner has been recompensed for the pinched tomes through subsequent sales of Harlan's own books. Posterity in general may be along the same lines for Mr. Ellison: hard to deal with in the moment, but oh so worth it in the long run.

As for the written medium in general, it has been going to hell in a handbasket for centuries. 165 years ago, Dickens wrote, "(Oliver marvelled) where the people could be found to read such a great number of books as seemed to be written to make the world wiser. Which is still a marvel to more experienced people than Oliver Twist, every day of their lives."

Somehow there are always people needing to write, finding ways to get books published, which somehow then get into the hands of readers that need to read them. Two hundred years after the fact, I can still pick up a copy of Fielding, or Austen and get rocked by something wonderful.

That's better than ballet, which is a crappy art that takes ten years of blood, sweat and tears to learn, dies utterly the moment that you do it, each time you do it, with maybe a couple of photos to hang on the wall giving only the dimmest possible idea of what the perfomance was like. After ten or fifteen years and maybe 1500 or 2000 shows in 50 different cities, you gradually burn out physically even as your artistic maturity coalesces.

You then wake up to the grim realization that you have little money, lots of scar tissue, and no high school diploma, and also need to find another way to make a living. Harlan is quoted on this site saying, "Anyone can become a writer. The trick is staying a writer." Well, no one can stay a dancer.

But the great works in literature, among which Harlan's work taken as a whole must surely be numbered, they have probably the best chance, of all works of the human spirit, of carrying on undiluted, distinct and accessible.

Here's another example of Internet piracy causing shitloads of harm. Valve Software's been preparing a sequel to its game _Half-Life_ for about five or six years now, and its expected release was to come somewhere between September 30th and the holidays.

Now, _Half-Life_ was an industry wonder, a game which sold amazingly well when it came out, got lots of great reviews, and once fans started tweaking the game engine and creating multiplayer mods like Counterstrike, it qukckly became the single most popular game played on the Internet. (Screw the Sims.) And when people saw previews of the Half Life sequel-- with a new game engine that handled physics brilliantly, and some computer characters which were amazingly lifelike thanks to some high-end programming-- people were expecting this one to go through the fuckin' roof. I, for one, bought a new computer system in anticipation of both _Half-Life 2_ and _Deus Ex: Invisible War_.

A few days ago, it was revealed that hackers exploited Microsoft security flaws and downloaded large chunks of the as-yet-unfinished _Half-Life 2_ game engine's source code. So while Valve tries to track down the stuff, and find the people who did this, there's chat about the game being delayed for another four months while the programmers anticipate any cheats or hacks devised from study of this source code.

Obviously, a LOT of game fans are really, really pissed off about this.

You gotta admit, death is pretty damn frightening. Not that I am worried about hell, but I have been on this ball of dirt so long that I am worried about what might happen when this ride comes to a halt. I mean, will heaven be an endless Nascar race (the horror!)? Will there still be chocolate pudding? And will that pudding be the best pudding ever thought about in even the most erotically gastronomic dream, or will it taste like normal pudding? You see all, these deep thoughts are a torture. Genius is a damn hard crutch to pull. Wink.

Life and more abundantly.

--------

Pray that Aanold looses his bid for the ego spot on the world stage today.

-------------

Am I the only one who has no sympathy for the tiger mauled Roy? It was a wild animal, and had no place on a stage in Vegas. So there.

-----------------

Jon, at least the artists I like are assholes.

----------------

"Art is subjective, but so is life"

Anon.

Here's something to include in your ruminations: this month's Discover magazine has an article saying that people alive today might live to 150 years old. Sure they must mean folks who are 4 years old today but still....keep chomping on those glucosamine tabs, folks, and eat brightly colored vegetables, so whatever you're doing at age 69, you'll still be able to do at 89. Albeit more slowly.

Death and Texas

Bruce thought HE had bypassed (so to speak) all the demises forecast in "The Day I Died" . . . not quite, Bruce, but getting close.

I don't have my copy of _Stalking the Nightmare_ ready to hand, but if you check my discussion of that book and story elsewhere on this very Web site, you will find that Ellison outlasted at least 8 out of 10 croak scenarios, and possibly the 9th (I didn't specify when that was and can't remember).

The final one is 2010, when HE would be a not implausible 76 years of age. Let's all have ONE BIG PARTY when he gets there, shall we?

To me, Cindy wrote:

> Your trip sounds fantastic. I wish you could post some of
> your pictures on the other board--not that I need to live
> vicariously, mind you. I mean, MY town is very exciting
> (we have close to 25 HUNDRED people in residence now).



I got most of the photos back last night. Val Kilmer doesn't look like much with his shaggy John Holmes appearance; I definitely look more pleased to be standing next to him than vice versa! The photos with Dan Savage are just okay; again, I look more pleased to be in them.

There was a devastatingly gorgeous co-host of the cable channel show "Naked New York" named Donna Barnes; neither my photos nor the show poster I brought home quite do her justice. You New Yorkers are lucky to be able to see her on a regular basis! Since the show went off the air the night after I appeared on it (I had NOTHING to do with it, honest!), she'll undoubtedly find another gig soon, and I overheard her say she intended to do a lot more writing.

> Meantime, how was the show? John Lithgow has been a
> favorite of mine since Garp.

The show was excellent. A very basic, stripped-down account of the collapse of a very British 33-year marriage, with the 32-year-old only son caught in the middle. No heroes, no villains, just raw (though often very funny) honesty.


> New York must be beautiful this time of year.

I've always been highly ambivalent about NYC -- during my first few visits, I was most struck by the speed, the dirt, the noise; living in New York must be like being on drugs, I thought: you move a little quicker, your pulse beats faster, but in the long run it's gotta be bad for your health and soul -- but I'll admit it charmed me a bit more this time.

BRUCE:

I frequently "ruminate" on Death, because I obsess about Posterity.

That may be the most insightful thing I've ever written about myself. On the other hand, it might not.

Respectfully, Harlan (I'm 69 years old, what would you LIKE me to dwell on...teething?) Ellison

Harlan,
I've noticed in some of your recent posts that you've been thinking about death recently. I must commend you on the maturity of thinking about death in an objective and serious manner. I read two pieces in "Stalking the Nightmare"--"the Locust", and "the Day of my Death". You wrote those about 30 years ago I think you already outlived every scenerio in "Day of Death"!

Tell me--Do the last 30 years seemed to have pasted MUCH faster than let's say the five years from '67-'72? If so, why do you think that is?

Do you think its possible that in the future people might say about you (and Asimov,Silverberg,Resnick,etc), "His (Their) work was so brilliant--How could they have been so blind to things that were so obvious?" If the moment before your death you recognized these obvious things, wouldn't you want to publicize them before you died? If so, you better tell them not to burn it.

As for a gay Bruce Banner: "Hulk SMASHing!"

(Interestingly, the only comics writers who have handled gay characters well in mainstream tights-n-fights comics are ... um ... Chuck Austen, despite his often hackish work, did a good job with Northstar in recent issues of UNCANNY X-MEN. Both Mark Waid's version of the Pied Piper in the FLASH and Warren Ellis' Apollo and Midnighter should be given consideration simply because they were gay without making a big stink about it, without suddenly acting like some freakish stereotype. James Robinson similarly had a nice mini-portarait of the pansexual spaceman Mikaal Tomas in his excellent SATARMAN series.

[Yes, I know Maggie Sawyer is a lesbian in the Soopaman comics, but I rarely read them, so cannot offer an opinion--and as for Gen13's Sarah Rainmaker? "Hey, hey, hey! I'm a LESBIAN! You hear! LESBIAN!!!" Riiiight. And the few gay creators I know of seem to have largely sidestepped any portrayals, perhaps out of worry for being ostracized, labeled, whatever.]

The best, however, I think, was Peter David in ... Hulk, to bring it full-circle.

Though not gay myself, I have to wonder why there are so few shown in comics now that we've all grown up. You might say it's because so few creators are themselves gay ... but the comics industry is and always has been full of lots of Jews, and how many Jewish superhero types can you think of ...? Kitty Pryde, yeah. Sabra. the Golden Age Sandman [in Matt Wagner/Steven T. Seagle's revival] Doc Samson. The Thing [a recent retcon, but one which surprisingly makes a great deal of sense]. And lots of minor supporting characters: Maggie Rosenthal, Achilles from the Hulk's Pantheon, and a whole host of others.
Hmm ... come to think, there are very few EPILEPTIC comic book characters ... should I protest?)

HARLAN, AND THE REST OF YOUSE MUGS: Thank you, Harlan. And to you and everyopne else, a happy, healthy, safe, and PEACEFUL New Year the world over.

(Go Cubbies! Go Sox!)

Too, dammit, too
I hate people who can't tell the difference between To, Too, Two, 2!

Hate 'em.

Trust me, I can tell. Musta been the fast.

-TOOOOOOD

Food, Give Me Food!
....and to you to, Harlan! Thank you.

Though I have slowly shed many of the traditions of my past (lest we forget, the pops was a rabbi....canya believe it?), I still abide by the laws of Yom Kippur. No eatin', no drinkin' and no boffin' (not that the wife would be too interested after getting a whiff of my fasting breath)!

The fast was easy this year, I was more thirsty than hungry. Watched the beautiful AZ sunset which turned the clouds a bright orange (Clouds? In Phoenix? The weathermen must be having orgasms drawing those fluffy white shapes on their sunny-sky drawings) and then gulped down 16 ounces of freezing, icy goodness (Diet Dr. Pepper, yahh)! Man, that was good.

Then I settled down to watch the Sox beat the A's. Couldn't believe it, but while my external cheers were rooting on the largest chokers of the last few years (9 losses in a row when they could have closed out a post-season series? Are they the Bills of the American League?), my internal interests wanted that RedSox/Yankee series to come to fruition. Gasp. It's like the time I rooted for the Mets! The horror, the horror.

Musta been the fast.

Hunger gone now. I'm back to normal.

And as for those Cubbies, I've been rooting them on since the final two weeks of the season, but I can't do it now. Why? Because they are getting all the press. It's obvious that Fox is rooting them on bigtime.....we all know that baseball fans, other than Yankee fans, want to see the Cubs play the Red Sox in the Fall Classic, but for Gawd's sake, I haven't heard a single word about the Florida Marlins since they beat the Gints in 4.

Unlike the Championship Marlins of 1997, the true Best Team Money Could Buy and Dismantle, these Marlins have come slowly up from obscurity and are now in their position with some shrewd trades, a free agent transaction for a catcher no one wanted, and a manager old enough to remember the last time the Cubs and RedSox won their World Series.

No respect. It would have been fun to root on the Cubbies, but I gotta give some 'spect to my hometown. Go Marlins! Give the Yanks a warm place to play a few games next week.

-TODD

YOM KIPPUR WISHES

As sundown passes its kind hand aceoss my house, and I emerge from the holiest of the High Holy Days, I realize gently that I did not extend to all of you the solicitude of the holiday.

For which, most appropriately, I belatedly atone.

And wish l'shanah tovuh to you all; may your names be entered yet again, and for another year, in the Book of Life.

Bests, Harlan

My favorite songwriter is Cindy, who makes Frank look like Dylan. Ummm wait no, that was: who makes Prince look like Frank. or was it.......

Anyway Frank, that Prince moment doesn't show him in such a good light. Why be snotty to the sincere fans? Probably ruined her day. Besides "..and your point is?" has been terribly overused, usually by the same people who like to say "think outside the box", "talk to the hand", and "pushing the envelope".

I Have No Idea
Frank: Leaving aside the generalization that greatness breeds arrogance (given the number of arrogant non-great people walking the Earth, 'pettiness breeds arrogance' would also appear to be equally true or false), your comment made me think about Neil Gaiman, who seems to be in the rare position of being generally beloved by fans and professionals alike.

I'm only singling Gaiman out here because of the media attention he's been getting lately. People may complain about the work from time to time, but there's an amazing amount of good will attached to him. And in my only quasi-personal dealing with him -- having a letter published in the Sandman letter column way, way back -- his printed response was gracious.

Really not much of an observation -- and I'd add the caveat that most author and artist websites I've browsed also suggest the opposite to what you've posited, Frank: graciousness and civility abound unless severely tested.

Cheers, Jon

As I have said, many artists are assholes; greatness can breed arrogance. I mean, there are few nice guys who are good to great artists.

I cannot down Dylan, when my favorite singer/songwriter is Prince; who makes Dylan look like Cindy.

Random Prince moment: Female fan walks up to him in a club, excited to see her idol. "Prince, I just love your music!" She says, really giddy. Prince looks at her, not amused. "And your point is?" Says he.

--------------

Adam Castro, you are one cool ass dude. I am glad to see you here. You really get this place boppin.

You ever hear of Noam Chomsky?

-------------

I am reading Watching, and was surprised to see Harlan get so agitated about Gremlins and Back To The Future; both movies I love as entertainment.

Curious how everyone feels about these two films, and Harlan's take on them.

But it was cool to see Harlan agree that Ken Russell is a decent director. Always loved his crazy films. Lair Of The White Worm is great exploitive fantasy.

And agree with Harlan, that Star Wars is a lousy piece of shit. And Luke Skywalker is a pussy.

You are a great movie reviewer Harlan; hope to see you go back to it later.

Will go more into Gremlins and Back To The Future later.

------------------

Bruce Springsteen's best songs always seem to be his hits. When he tries to be too earnest, he looses me--which is most of the time. The guys vibe is just too saintly.

------------
Happy early Halloween:

"Silent Scream
I'm the cobwebbed stairs, the ancient bones
I'm the shadow rippling cobblestones,
I'm the stagnant swamp, the black lagoon
I'm the branches scratching at the moon
I'm the funeral service, the unknown mourner
I'm the demon cowering in the corner
I'm the sexton's spade, the new thrown clay
I'm what's left when they walk away
I'm the ebony coffin, satin lining
Pale thin lips in the back room dying"

--TSOL

HE does the gay hulk
There are no girly-men at Harlan's place, nor should they be spoken of! While it's easy to believe that a homophobic network suit might associate "Bruce" with "does this uniform make my butt look big", you can bet your last scrotum cuff that without warning HE would grab the hapless suit by the tender bits and encourage him to focus on the more profoundly horrified reaction of the mainstream male to the OTHER side of gay; the big green Leather Man from Castro street. The apotheosis of the resulting screenplay would no doubt roll credits with the captain of the local football team duct taped buns up to a stadium bench, sucking his thumb and crying for his mother.

Periods
The evident reason all early Marvels ended each sentence with exclamation points is that the printing of the time made printing periods dicey There was a month late 60s when Marvel experimented with periods, and all punctuation disappeared from every word balloon, which was unpleasant

A gay Hulk.

I wonder. Does that mean he'll be bursting from leopard skin underwear, instead of shredded trousers? Will there be bold, new connotations to the phrase 'smash toy?' Will he join the Rainbow Coalition, and fight for liberation? Tune in next week.

As for myself: AH-HAW-HAW-HAW-HAW-HAW-HAW-HAW!!!

Oh, yes. A gay Hulk. I can see how that would work:

"Oooooh, General Ross, I Luh-OOOOVE your new uniform!"
"Really? It doesn't make my butt look big?"

Welcome home, David,
Your trip sounds fantastic. I wish you could post some of your pictures on the other board--not that I need to live vicariously, mind you. I mean, MY town is very exciting (we have close to 25 HUNDRED people in residence now).

Meantime, how was the show? John Lithgow has been a favorite of mine since Garp.

New York must be beautiful this time of year.

:)
Cindy

I forgot the 'ful' as in Meaningful. Apologies.

As it is in Red Sox Nation. And a Cubs-Sox World Series is Mighty Fine by me. IF that happens and IF the Sox lose, the one team I would not mind losing to would be the Cubs, for we are one in the same, Cubfans.

And Goddamn, the Carey Wood pitched ONE HELL OF A GAME last night.

Here's to Meaning Baseball in October,
Walshy

Hey Hey! Holy Cow!

It's a beautiful day in Cubdom!

Todd,
You must realize by now that the Powers That Be want a Cubs-Red Sox World Series (how else do you explain the Sox-Oakland Game 4?) . There will be no Yankees in the Series this year. Now that the Cubs have vanquished the yearly Losers of Atlanta, they need do nothing more than fry that fish and meet the Sox. Pedro will win tonight and the Sox will go on to best the Yankees. The Powers That Be have decided this. The sooner you realize this the sooner you'll be able to move on with your life and function as a contributing member of society.

Having endured three heart attacks in two days,
Rich

(Oh, and if we lose tonight, it doesn't matter; it just means that all is right with the world and that the Rapture isn't imminent.)

Stan Lee and Myth
Tony Stark, the munitions industrialist, has a piece of metal attacking his heart. That's a good one!

Bruce Banner, the picture of disinterested progress, gets to see first hand what his bomb will do to an innocent teenager. Now this civilized man has special insight into the rage hidden underneath his perfect civilization.

Peter Parker becomes responsible for his uncle's death by a network of existential causality.

Even one of the Fantastic Four is cursed by his leader's overweening intellectual pride when he decides to win the Cold War single-handedly.

All of these stories strike me as real fables for our times. They are simple, true and strong stories.

How lucky I am to have known some of the Lee/Kirby magic.

Steve Dooner

PS. My friend Mark Walsh always likes to point out how all early Marevels are written entirely in exclamation points. If only you guys in the Webderland could hear how funny it is to hear Mr. Walsh read the incidental dialog from these books at the top of his lungs.

Mark,

Re: 'The Man'.

"And a marketing genius. As Lee has said over and over, in interviews he always had a secret desire to be an Ad Man"

Yes - he said same on the tape I saw. And - just to study it for a moment - it explains many things about his role over the years. What MAKES him that "marketing genius" is the warm, genial personalilty I described, easily his strongest resource. Unlike typical CEOs or corpses like Michael Eisner at Disney he REALLY likes to engage you. Like the books he used to write and the Marvel bullpen and the Marvel letters pages, he talks directly to you. It's this very amicability - this chummy humor - that embodies (or '-ied'?) Marvel. He gave the organization a personality - an identity. Few people have been able to do that with their personae in ANY industry. And, of course, identity is the key to marketing. (Hell, our own host grasped this a loooong way back.) Lee always wanted to be an ad man...he sure as hell fulfilled the dream.

Onle Lee, for example, would have come up with a self-effacing caption like he did for his first success, "World's Greatest Comic Magazine". Or, for that matter, sobriquets like 'the ever-lovin' blue-eyed Thing.'

BTW, before closing I have to pass this on: you know why they changed Bruce Banner's name to David in that chessy 70's tv show ya'll seem to like? The Hollywood studio execs, in their enviable wisdom (the same Dead End Kids Harlan had to wrastle with half the time) told a befuddled Lee...that it sounded gay. (Yet...wouldn't a gay Hulk have been interesting? What kind of a partner would he have sought? If only the execs had asked themselves such compelling questions.)

I'm back

I'm home again. During my little tour I: did three radio interviews, appeared on a cable TV show, had six public reading events, ran into Val Kilmer (hope the photo of us comes out), met Dan Savage finally (ditto about that photo), saw "The Retreat From Moscow" on Broadway starring John Lithgow from the fourth row center and noticed Judd Hirsch sitting exactly two rows behind me, and finally met my agent in person (who also happens to be Harlan's agent).

At least one Webderlander caught my act on the road -- said he has been mostly a lurker for five years, but learned about my reading on Webderland. Didn't catch your name, guy . . . drop me an email if you feel like it. Also talked to at least one former sex worker (a male, mind you, from Japan) and one transsexual (female-to-male) who were in my audiences. And saw a lot of old friends.

Helluvan adventure, a book tour, whether home-made or not.

Stan Lee
Rob said of Stan Lee: "He really is a fun, creative guy. A total kid at heart."

And a marketing genius. As Lee has said over and over, in interviews and in his autobiography, he always had a secret desire to be an Ad Man. Which makes sense, given his talent for firing off one nifty slogan after another as well as his talent for knowing how to sell Marvel comics.

Another point about Stan Lee: Now this is probably just me, but I noticed that his voice in "Excelsior!" is reminiscent of Asimov's voice in his autbio, "I Asimov." Their writing styles are quite close, at least syntactically.

Shallow thought: if Brittney (sp?) Spears is a Fembot, then is Jessica Simspon a fembot without the Pentium chip?

Best,
Walshy

Since Jon mentioned Marvel...

Last night I rented a video interview with Stan Lee from 2002. The guy who did it - Scott Zakarin - somewhat bogs the thing with a dull presence (I'd have just kept the camera on Stan without cutting away for "reaction shots"; with some exceptions, I generally hate reaction shots in interviews, far more so when the host has zero personality). Having said that Stan is one of the most droll, self-effacing, buoyant, genial people I've ever seen. I got a sense that he must always be a pleasure to share a room with. One time Harlan praised him highly when Gary Groth trashed him for not doing more to better comics. And I can see why. (Actually, Harlan, watching you and Stan sharing a podium would be mighty interesting.) He really is a fun, creative guy. A total kid at heart. The Disney of comics (though more socially conscious). The tape was a pleasure.

An example of Stan's humility, when asked recently about his autobiography soon to be published:

"a great publicity job they're doing (Simon & Schuster) ... The name of it is Excelsior!, and then it's a little embarrassing – they wrote the subtitle "The Amazing Life of Stan Lee." ...

Interviewer: So how is that subtitle embarrassing if it's completely accurate?

LEE: Well, I wouldn't have said the "Amazing" life... I think I've had a very conservative life. Someone wants to do a movie of my life now and he's writing a script, and I said to him, "What the hell could you do? I've never been arrested, I haven't taken drugs, I've had the same wife for 54 years – where's anything of interest to people?"

Interviewer:...personally speaking, half of my vocabulary comes from reading comic books when I was growing up, including ones you wrote. There was a literate nature to the books you wrote that was in no way "juvenile"...

LEE: So don't you ever send anybody a check or something in appreciation? You just get half your vocabulary and accept it, you insensitive clod?!?!?

Tracy: Epic Illustrated -- the name's actually there in the bibliographical listing for NatE. It was Marvel's answer to Heavy Metal, but with more original North American material, some Marvel superhero stuff (Byrne's Last Galactus Story was serialized there) and fewer boobs&buns. Or at least fewer nekkid boobs and buns. In the truly useless trivia department, I seem to recall that when the magazine was first announced, it was going to be called 'Odyssey.' But that could be a random engram misfire.

Cheers, Jon

Hi, Greg,

Alpena, huh? Alpena, MI? I lived there for four years. My parents are still there.

I've played many a mini golf game at Lee's. And I rang up many a purchase at Wal-Mart.

Anyway.

Bob Dylan is certainly one of my favorites, one of the singers on the short list of people I rely on in times of need, the musicians who can ease a depression, assuage my fears and make me feel a connection to the world even when feeling terribly isolated. Of course, Leonard Cohen is also on that short list for me. Perhaps I just have a fondness for traditionally "bad" singers. I love Marianne Faithful too and many might consider her in the same class.

I've never met Dylan and never will. If he was a serial pederast, his personal life would matter to me. If he's just a garden variety prick, I must admit I don't care, not in relation to his music, at least. He's one of the unquestioned geniuses of modern music and one of the finest lyricists ever born. The Lonesome Death of Hattie Carroll, Tangled Up in Blue, Subterannean Homesick Blues, With God On Our Side and many others - these are transcendent songs with resonate very fundamentally for me, songs that can play for me whether or not the stereo is on.

Don't feel so bad Bill,

I have long loved one song of Springsteen's. "Tougher Than The Rest" still gives me chills.

Cindy

Playin' Catch Up
The blues series was a natural bookend to KB's Jazz show a couple years back. The directorial difference gives it a new slant, but I could have used a little more archievial research. Song in question earlier was of course "Green Onions" and I'm glad they let it play through. very cool. More: in the beginning Dylan simply aped Woody, Jack Elliot and a host of others. As he rode the '60's wave he found his own voice though he did exploit others along the way. The famous motorcycle crash seemed to have 'grounded' him and he dug his way out. The 1970's brought him a new reckoning and I have to say since then it's been hit or miss. His voice is gone, but I give him credit for being a survivor. Todd-a near local horror show host also adapted the Froggy moniker and made a bit of local splash. We knew him as The Ghoul, an offshoot of The Cool Ghoul and Ghoulardi-but, hey I'm a bit younger and that was one of my guilty early teen pleasures. Oddly enough, he's still around too. And Harlan-please come back to Michigan!

Jon, thanks for providing that info.' I read two installments in a magazine (The title eludes me, but it was along the lines of _Heavy Metal_, but not nearly as fried;

(Not that I have anything against the latter, mind you. I'm sure there was a time when we all sat around in our underwear, stoned on qualudes--a can of Eagle Piss in one hand, and the remote control in the other. Of course we can relate. Then let us relish the occasion of our tenth DUI, and the trip to the workhouse--showering in pairs with some dude named Bubba.').

I wish I could find those magazines. I'm going to turn the attic upside down. Suz,' if I find them you're welcome to read them. I guarantee you won't be disappointed.

My ten cents on Spingsteen/Dylan
I cop to being a Springsteen fan ("Badlands" is rocking behind me as I write this), I admit it. As far as Dylan is concerned, I don't feel one way or another about him. But I DO like them both for the same reason: they give guys like me who can't sing some hope of becoming rock stars. Of course, I can't write or play music. Guess I'll stick to writing.

Billy

Springsteen's Dylan Imitation
As Bruce said at one of his 1997 Sydney concerts after singing said song, 'Blinded By The Light': "What the hell was that guy smoking?"

For me, it's not so much what Dylan's lyrics mean, but how they sound when he's singing them. His voice is such an acquired taste I was 30 before I even began getting into him (apart from 'Hurricane', always loved that) but now I find most covers of his songs, while better sung, lose something that the rasp brought to them. Except 'All Along The Watchtower'.

As for Bobby's poison-ality - while watching 'Don't Look Now' there were many times I wanted to pick him up and throw him out the window. 'Visions Of Johanna' and 'Like A Rolling Stone' may be brilliant but the quality of a person's art doesn't justify them behaving like a prick.

I don't care what you say about Springsteen, BORN TO RUN is a dynamite album.

Moving elsewhere: Friday night's segment of PBS' Blues series ran a visceral performance from the 60's of Booker T. Jones and his band jammin' with R&B guitarist Steve Cropper; it's the one that keeps Booker T and the MGs in the spotlight to this day. I don't remember what they called it. But, of a matter of fact, Ralph Bakshi used it amply in the 60's animated version of Spider-Man (and as a side note, a composer who had teamed with Frank Zappa - I'd forgotten his name - did its famous jazz-rock theme, which was incredibly well orchestrated).

To segue briefly - however awkward the timing - I'd like to make a political observation/projection:

Schwarzenegger before winning the recall race:

"I am deeply sorry about that."
"I behaved badly sometimes"
"From this point on I will prove I am a champion for the women."

Schwarzenegger after becoming the new governor:

"You shut your mouth!"
"I caaaan't heeear youuuu!"
"And one moa' thing...don't EVAUH make me mad."

Alex Jay,

Have you seen the Demotivators website at
http://www.despair.com/indem.html?

It's a great site. Posters for everyone including those hard to please 'disaffected college students'.

Secret Sequels; early twenties assholery; Dylan
Regarding secret sequels: well, not quite what I'm talking about, as you wear your secret sequels on your sleeve. It's not NECESSARY to know who Larry Talbot is to appreciate your "Langerhans" story, but it's there; I was talking more about stuff a little more cunningly hidden than that, on the level of saying, "Well, if THIS happened, then THIS would happen." But moving on...

My own liking for Dylan is wry, in that while I recognize the worth of songs like "Senor," "Hurricane," "Brownsville Girl," "Masters of War," "A Hard Rain's A-Gonna Fall," etc, way too many to name, I **do** hear the tortured quality of his voice, and I do hear how many songs of his are really half-assed collections of random imagery, made to SOUND heavy and significant by juxtaposition, but really, just lists of lines included only because they rhyme. He's written too many songs like "Watchin' the River Flow," and "I'm Walkin'" from just a couple of years ago, where every single line resulted from nothing more heartfelt or profound than the need to produce a line to follow the nonsensical line just above it. In the released version of "Watchin' the River Flow," you can actually hear him fighting off laughter at the stupidity of what he's singing, and no, I'm not kidding: it's there. It's easy to write elliptical and faux-profound, when you have an audience willing to debate the meaning of every single line, and Dylan has that. I love his GOOD songs. I really do. I just identify waaay, waaaay, too many half-assed, contemptuous ones.

Bruce Springsteen's first album begins with a song that is clearly an attempt to ape Dylan, and yes, it means nothing. Whatever you think of HIS output -- and yes, I agree that his voice, while quite different from Dylan's, is in many ways the same kind of acquired taste -- he did eventually learn the glorious value of lyrical clarity. His album of narrative songs, "The Ghost of Tom Joad," which I think sold a fraction of what his stadium-rocking albums sold, was very much a collection of work in the vein of what Dylan's followers claim he writes, and which he all too often does not.

And, yet, dammit, Dylan's good songs...!!!!

One last word on Dylan is that, yes, his ghoulish behavior in his twenties sounds pretty awful...but I have long believed that there IS a statute of limitations on asinine behavior. I certainly don't wanna be judged forever by MY maturity or understanding of ethical and dignified behavior at that age. I was too withdrawn and insecure a guy at that age to have the kind of arrogance that comes with thinking you have all the answers -- I most certainly knew I did not -- but I can also testify that, dammit, I didn't know what all the questions were either.
ATC

Hallelujah, it works! I was going to spend my day eating Cheez Doodles in front of the TV and thinking unkind thought about my fellow man, but now I have viewed the superlithos posters and I am MOTIVATED!!! I shall try to burst the seams of my clothing by flexing my muscles, practice leaping from rooftop to rooftop, and try to get sticky strands to shoot out from my wrists. Thank you, Superlithos for giving me that motivation! Think I'll wear my Spiderman suit to work on Monday, maybe it'll motivate my co-workers...

+ylan; early-twenties assholery
"Sc

ON DYLAN: Not the best father, not--from what I am told--the nicest person, and surely not a good singer. But a passably good musician and a fine songwriter. And as for his youthful assholian actions, weren't we just talking about separating man from material?

BRIAN: "Dylan's one of the last to learn from the originals." Well, seeing how three of The Weavers are still alive and performing (Fred Hellerman, Ronnie Gilbert, and the incomparable Pete Seeger, minus the late Lee Hays), I dunno about that. I'd think the likes of The Kingston Trio, John Sebastian, Jorma Kaukounen, Richie Havens, Arlo Guthrie, and John Prine are a lot closer to the spirit of "the originals" than Dylan's been for the last thirty-odd years.

Also, I count Blues as a big part of "our folk tradition," and you can't say that Corey Harris, John Hammond, Jr., Keb' Mo, Rollie Tussing III, R.L. Burnside, and others aren't carrying THAT tradition on jes' fine. (Plus, people like Jessie Mae Hemphill, Honeyboy Edwards, Robert Jnr Lockwood, and other trad-blues pioneers are still alive ...)

One tidbit I wanted to share with all of you:

I'm sure you've grow familiar with those "Motivations" posters large companies are so enamored of, with the soothing art meant to embody a desired workplace quality? You know, the things companies spend money on to help morale instead of actually spending it on something which would directly make the employees feel better about their workplace?
Well, If you go to http://www.superlithos.com, you'll find another series of those "Motivations"-type posters, these pairing the oh-so-inspirational qualities and captions along with pictures of Marvel Comics characters.

On the face of it, not a horrible idea--I mean, why NOT have Spider-Man representing "RESPONSIBILITY," Captain America as the face of "FORTITUDE," or Daredevil as a personification of blind "JUSTICE"?

But one wonders at the ideas of "PERSERVERANCE" and "COURAGE" being represented by a perpetually-pissed-off Canadian with big adamantium pigstickers shooting from his knucks.
Or at an image of Elektra, a hired killer, atop "Excellence."

But it gets worse, chillen, how it do get worse:

"COMMITMENT" is given visage by Frank Castle, the Punisher, an obsessed serial killer with a body-count in the thousands.
And "POSSIBILITIES" by Magneto, a racist and genocidal mass-murdering villain and would-be dictator.

Just what are we to think of a company's policies if we see these hanging from their walls?

HARLAN: Two VHS/DVD-related questions.

First, Do you have any plans to release a video or DVD of your collected Sci-Fi Buzz segments? Earlier, you mentioned that you own the rights to them but hadn't come to a decision on whether you'd release them in some format. I was just wondering if there was any update on that front.

Second, Have you been approached/do you have any interest in working on a sequel to the 1987 video "The Masters of Comic Book Art"? A companion video that focuses on comic book writers as opposed to artists would be an excellent thing.

Curious, (as always!)
Your Pal,
Mark

Boy Named Sue
FRANK,

"A Boy Named Sue" was performed by Johnny Cash, but written by Shel Silverstein. Just an FYI.

He Is Everywhere
I've been thumbing through this fluffy little book I bought a year ago called TVparty by Billy Ingram; a collection of internet columns from a TVparty website that specializes in 50's/60's/70's childhood teevee memories. A nothing book. Fun for awhile, but not worth much notice except for the CD-ROM of clips that was included.

What I found fun was how many articles made me think of Harlan! The man and his influence is everywhere!

* There was an article on an old kid's show called Andy's Gang. On this show was a creepy puppet frog named, you got it, Froggy, and the show's host, Andy Devine, would often call out, "Plunk your magic Twanger, Froggy!" If I recall, this is one of Harlan's favorite shout-outs.

* In an article about the two actors who played Darrin on Bewitched, the reason for Dick York's departure from the show is discussed. He was in pain throughout the show due to an injury he suffered on the set of a movie. He finally had to give up the role on Bewitched because of all the abuse he would take hanging from wires, etc. The injury was suffered while filming They Came From Cordura....a film that Harlan highly recommended on this board last year.

* There is an article on robot teevee series such as Holmes and YoYo and Futurecop. Futurecop, the series that resulted in a a successful lawsuit by Harlan for plagiarism of his teleplay, Brillo. In fact, Harlan's lawsuit and victory is noted in two brief paragraphs.

MyGawd....even in trifling little reads you can't escape the ever-present, all-encompassing shadow of Harlan Ellison!

PS.....since most of the participants on this board tend to lean toward the left in their beliefs and rooting interests, I just need to support a team that gets no respect from youse guys and gals. And thus, I must shout will the glee that only a baseball fan can shout with during this 2003 October run:

GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO YANKEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!

(gee, I guess the Red Sox didn't even want the opportunity to be beaten by the Yanks themselves. Buncha losers!)

It'll be nice to see the Cubs battle the Yankees, even if they will have to settle with the NL Pennant.

-TODD

Harlan Ellison hanging out with Makem and Clancy.....trying hard to imagine it!!

On Dylan and Such

Just to add to some of the positive response on Dylan. The early hoarse-voiced Dylan did sing an amazingly stirring "House of the Rising Sun." Later on, such Dylan songs as, "If Not for You" was beautiful in its versions by Dylan and George Harrison. Dylan's "Mr. Tambourine Man" was far more lyrical and moving than the Byrds' cut, and his set at the concert for Bangladesh was among one of Rock's greatest moments. Also, no one should forget Dylan and the Band, and one song everyone should re-listen to is "You're Gonna Make Me Lonesome When You Go" off "Blood on the Tracks." That's one of the most joyously fatalistic songs ever written. Even in the eighties "Blind Willie McTell" shows that Dylan could still write a great song.

HARLAN: we were in a record store today, And we noticed a song called "Shatterday" by a band called Vendetta Red. Have you heard of this?

Steve Dooner and Mark Walsh

JON, IT'S A LIE!!! **I** WHUPPED BATMAN'S ASS (WEG&WINK)
I keep thinking about that sneaker commercial about RACING everything:

I whupped the Birdman, the SnowMan, the GhostMan, the 24-hourMan...

Wesley, how's JHVH?

..."whupped his ass.."

Dylan had a raspy voice, but it did give him a unique edge. And lyrics about important subjects need a little bite.

Dylan is a very strange guy, but so are most artists--that seems to be the way they are made. Musicians seem to have a hard time dealing with normal reality. All that music punching in their brains and the like.

---------------------

Just checked out, Harlan Ellison's Watching, and the damn book is really fucked up. The binding is falling apart and it really looks worn. This really pisses me off, since I see books as hallowed things. But, at least I will finally get to read the thing. The book was stolen about a year back.

You must be popular with the light fingers crowd, Harlan.


-----------------------------

Speaking of lyrics, I recently listened to the late Johnny Cash's wonderful song, A Boy Named Sue. Now that is what I call lyric writing. Biting satire never tasted so sweet.

-------------------------------

"Crickets are chirpin', the water is high,
There's a soft cotton dress on the line hangin' dry,
Window wide open, African trees
Bent over backwards from a hurricane breeze.
Not a word of goodbye, not even a note,
She gone with the man
In the long black coat"

--Bob Dylan

Re Dylan, nee Zimmerman. I like Dylan. Harlan's anecdote about his bedside visits to the soon-to-be-departed correlates with accounts of his constant visits to the great Woody Guthrie, and his general obnoxiousness as a young'un is amply described in David Hajdu's marvelous book _Positively 4th Street_.

But when I read about this, all I could think of was how obnoxious a _lot_ of people are when they're twenty, eager to prove themselves, oblivious to what others think of them, and slavishly worshipful of the greats in their midst. I mean no offense when I say that accounts of Our Beloved Host in his fledgling years share a lot of those traits (though not the ghoulishness of seizing upon the Iminently Stone-Cold).

Dylan certainly turned into something a lot more. He's written any number of classic songs, I _like_ his voice, and, let's face it-- he's one of the last living connections we have to our country's magnificent folk tradition. Yes, there's a revival, and yes, there are musucians keeping the spirit alive. But Dylan's one of the last to have learned some of that from the originals.

I read an interesting interview with Dylan, where the interviewer kept asking if he'd had any big Personal Revelations during a recent bout with a heart infection. Dylan insisted that he hadn't. But he said that he did realize what his job was, so to speak. His job was to sing these songs. Didn't matter what he thought about the world, or whether his own lyrics were going to move the masses like they did thirty years ago. His job was to go out in public, and play the songs. Keep'em alive.

And I'm looking forward to seeing _Masked and Anonymous_.

Business
HARLAN (and/or SUSAN)~

I have a friend in Las Vegas who works for a bookstore and he's in charge of their SpecFic section. He's trying to support the cause by ordering classic Ellison to stock his shelves. (He's filling out their Sci-Fi/Fantasy section with all the classics: Asimov, Leiber, Bradbury, etc).

He claims his distributor (Ingram) only has two titles available for ordering. Where can he go to find the rest? Do you have a distributor that you recommend? (He's a man with a mission, so I'm passing the message along.)

Please advise,
Thanks and loads of affection,
Lynn

PS. Please feel free to tell me to put a sock in it and just call Arthur for the readily-available-information-for-anyone-with-half-a-brain-and-a-phone.

Has anyone listened to the sadly departed Wesley Willis? "Alanis Morrisette" got some radio play five or six years ago; the rest of the songs are like that. A lot like that. A bloody awful lot like that, in a good way. He seemed to have some sort of strange Grandma Moses thing going on with his music, if Grandma Moses made music and had access to a Casio organ. Willis painted too.

And if you like rockabilly, Handsome Ned: The Name is Ned may put a smile on your face -- it did when I listened to some of it at a friend's place this summer. "Ned" was a Toronto busking and bar fixture back in the late 70s and 80s. He's departed too. It's neat stuff, but keep in mind my caveat: I don't know rockabilly very well, so take any recommendation in that area with a grain of salt.

Secret sequels: Hmm. There are two Philip Jose Farmer stories that are reworked versions of pitches he made to Star Trek: TOS. I guess they're not "secret", but they also don't feature the actual characters of other people, and they're a bit closer to what I think Adam's talking about than some of Farmer's pastiches of and homages to Doc Savage, the Shadow, Tarzan. Moby Dick, Henry Miller, etc. etc.

David Gerrold's Voyage of the Star Wolf is interesting because its characters and set-up read for all the world like a better version of Star Trek: TNG -- and given that Gerrold wrote the Bible for that series without being credited, I assume that that's what Star Wolf actually is. It would have made a very good space opera series, anyway.

I suppose with sequels any more secret, one would have to ask the writer if such and such a character were Gully Foyle under a different name, or if a story were an extrapolation of what happens after _Sons and Lovers_ ends. Michael Ondaatje's _In the Skin of a Lion_ has a young Al Purdy (a Canadian poet) show up at one point, but he's unnamed and the only way to know that is delve into interviews and critical texts. That almost fits the criteria. I suppose James Blish's decision to have his Satan speak in Miltonic verse at the end of _The Day After Judgment_ may also fit -- none of the characters explicitly states "Great googlymoogly, he talks just like he did in Paradise Lost!"

To which I can only add, "_Black Easter_ and _The Day After Judgment_ absolutely kicked ass."

Oh, and yes, Melissa, you called it right as to riding. If the conservative here had been _Peter_ Frampton, I might have voted for him for sheer kitsch value. Well, no, not really.

Cheers, Jon

Dylan, nasal rasps aside...

Well, I have to tell you 'Knockin' On Heaven's Door' - his song from Pat Garrett and Billy the Kid - consistently transfixes me; I'm in a stasis everytime I listen to it. It's great imagery.

Now before we all light torches and chase Harlan into an old windmill, hopefully you can get some clarification from him - with just a touch of penitance for "hating Dylan."

And face it - when we listen to the likes of Dylan and Janis Joplin we take our chances with the rasps, which, at times, CAN push us into unbridled laughter.

...and in the course of the week I caught several segments of Scorcese's PBS presentation of the Blues. In particular, the first which celebrated the early Delta blues artists. Now THAT stuff had me transfixed. Some brilliant and tragic figures they was.

ADAM TC:

YOU KNOW ME FAR TOO WELL, FAR TOO INSIGHTFULLY, OLD FRIEND.

Yeah, I have my own reasons -- besides the ones you list, to which I subscribe fervently -- for disliking Zimmerman. (When I first met him, when I was hanging with Tommy Clancy and the Makem Brothers at the West End and the White Horse, back in the day, he was Bobby Zimmerman, and we cringed at his sound.) I don't hate the guy, but I got no use for him. S'pose it started back when he popped into some pub or guitar shop where everyone was sitting around schmoozing -- Oscar Brand, Martha Schlamme, Dave van Ronk, and a gaggle of others -- and announced with pride that he had just been up to some hospital or other (maybe Bellevue, I can't remember) and had been sitting at the side of the deathbed of Cisco Houston, getting him to gasp out lyrics before he croaked. HE thought that was cool. WE thought he was an obnoxious little ghoul.

As for writing "secret sequels," well, I did write "The New York Review of Bird" which features The Shadow; maybe one or two others during the last 50 years, but "The Final Experiment of the Son of Dr. Moreau," which I'm completing now, is probably the closest to what you're postulating.

Yr. pal, Harlan

MCSWEENEYS
McSweeney's is almost as irritating as Dave Egger's omnipresent visage, but it's cool to know the man's a Robert Graves fan. Myself, I love Graves. People should read every word he wrote, especially the underrated and hard-to-find King Jesus, an amazing work that, had it been written by Harlan, would have ended up in the bookstore's sci-fi section. And the dude (Graves) is also a great poet. His poetry is virtually unknown (the only copy of a book I could find of it was published in the 50's) but Graves considered himself a poet first and novelist second. "The old cow's dead, the old cow's dead."

On writing letters:
I have always written letters to people, more so now with the silly computer that makes getting an e-mail a chore and not something to look forward to. They are pesky little things and show that most people have forgotten how to write an actual letter.
Letters are typed on stationary appropriate to the person I am sending them to or a card is sent that I think they will enjoy. More and more I feel a sense of anger toward computers. A typewriter does not crash, does not need an update(except for a new ribbon now and then), does not make your eyes go boinkers, the hands become prone to Carpal Tunnel or all the hazards of the so-called Information Highway. A pox on computers...I prefer to go down the dirt road and have much more fun!
As far as my writing, the stupid computer has slowed me down to the point that I refuse to use it any more when doing anything creative. To wrap it up...DAMN computers...HAIL typewriters.
And in the morning I am disconnecting myself for a month or so and will probably take a hammer to this computer monster and enjoy bashing the thing.
Grumpily, when it comes to computers.
Tarheel.

Bob Dylan / Secret Sequels
You don't need a great philosophical / aesthetic reason to hate Bob Dylan; many people, including my wife, and at my best guess Harlan, are just so turned off by that nasal rasp of his that they can't get past it to identify anything of value in his lyrics. (Even as a fan, I have a problem with his tendency to use some of the most contrived, pointless rhymes imaginable, some of which are laugh-out-loud nonsensical. I also have no intention of ever spending money to see him live; he's reached the point where he just mumbles like a stroke patient.)

That said, there are Dylan songs I can listen to, again and again, ad nauseum, among them "Brownsville Girl," an epic he co-wrote with the playwright Sam Shepard.

Harlan will no doubt now inform us that I've completely guessed wrong about his reasons for hating Dylan, but, eh, it was a guess.

Hey, here's a topic. "Secret Sequels". This is my private name for the story-generating technique of wondering what would happen to the characters or situations of somebody else's story, many years later. It's a perfectly acceptable form of literary feedback, I think; as long as the story you write is actually YOUR story, with your characters, with your ideas, with the original tale naught but the muse's jumping-off point. I've done "secret sequels" several times, several times emerging with with well-known stories, and each time the result is so removed from the starting point that guessing the "prequel" is nigh-impossible. But in my MIND, they're direct sequels. Our esteemed host did a NOT-secret sequel to a Robert Bloch story once, memorably, but I'm wondering if he's ever done the other kind...ATC

Harlan with his own half-hour on SF Channel or Spike...Jeezus. Imagine the fun we'd all have with THAT. I'd suggest an hour with 20 minutes of call-in, but I don't want to wish the man another heart episode.

If you guys are anxious for "new stuff" just go pick up MCSWEENEY'S MAMMOTH TREASURY OF THRILLING TALES, edited by Michael Chabon. I found a copy today at my University's bookstore. In it you will find Harlan's DELIGHTFUL story, "Goodbye to All That," as well as new work from the likes of King, Crichton, Chabon and others (which I'm sure are also quite tasty, but I kinda sorta skipped straight to Harlan's story and haven't read the others yet).

Now, A WORD ON YOUNG PEOPLE:
Lawd knows how reluctant I am to bang on about how dumb kids are. But...listen to THIS: (And we thought the kids in Phoenix were bad.) My dad works at a military institute, ok? On Wednesday the Institute apparently brought in some poor kid who just got back from Iraq, an infantryman, to give a lecture. He was there to talk to the kids about what it means to be a soldier today, what it's like to be in a war, right? So in the middle of the lecture, some knucklheaded little fuckbrain pulled out his cock and balls and just sat there with his junk hanging out, for all his friends to snigger at. That was just for your information. Just in case you've seen, heard or felt anything today that brought some feeble ounce of hope into your lives.

Now, before I jet off to Albuquerque to catch the premiere of Michael's play (I have left instructions with Mr. Director, to the effect that he have all the actresses bathed in anticipation of my arrival), I have an entirely random question: is there a Harlan Ellison / Richard Donner connection, and if so, what is it? The only time I vividly remember Harlan saying anything about Donner is the bit in OVER THE EDGE in which he talks about how appalled he was by the decaptiation scene in THE OMEN. But for some reason I have the notion that they worked together once, on television, way before Donner got into movies. If you're wondering why I ask, it's because I watched SUPERMAN yesterday, okay? I've looked for further information (because why on earth would I spend my time doing homework?), but found zilch. Someone please talk some sense to me on this one, shine the light of understanding into mine eyes. It's a lonely universe.

Your Hombre,

J

Berman, Rush was a coward and weasel for quitting so quickly. Just that he would not fight for his speech rights proves what a rat fuck he is. I support his right to say his blather; and if it were me, I would tell the letter writers to swallow hot tar.

Rush just wants to help keep his show on the radio. I bet Al Franken has a fine fuck of a smile right about now.

--------------

Hell, I'd prefer to see Harlan on video just talking to different people. We could be a secret camera eye. A reality show for real smart, cool nerds.

Or a documentary on Harlan. Would be a blast.

---------------

Anyone watching the blues documentary on PBS?

Saw this bit on Son House; man that motherfucker could strum.

Sometimes simplicity is all that is needed.

-----------------

Harlan, you once mentioned that you hated Bob Dylan. What about his music irritates you? I am curious, since most rock critics and many musicians consider him to be the best song writer ever.

You will admit, that he has written some wonderful lyrics?

Thanks.

ALEX:

The "burn my papers immediately upon my demise" pronunciamento to Susan applies ONLY to unfinished stories/essays. Nothing else. I'll not have some other intellect try to figure out where an uncompleted plot was going, after I'm in an urn on a mantel, since most of the time I don't know myself. Not only have I saved most correspondence and everything else from, say, 1962 to present (and spottily therebefore), but I have thousands of hours of tapes and videos (some of the former which Michael Reed is going through right now, as he prepares ON THE ROAD, Volume 2) and carefully maintained scrapbooks chronicling my career (though not so much my private life). Journals, diaries? No. The story and book intros, the occasional pieces and my non-fiction serve that purpose: my days, sequentially. But I have detailed annual logs and calendars in which, and on which, have been entered "matters of consequence" and the dates on which they occurred. A demonstration of their ongoing practical value to me will be demonstrated when I get around to answering Cindy from the ARE WE AFRAID TO DISAGREE WITH HARLAN? Forum.

As for all this wishful thinking about what I HAVEN'T gottten around to writing yet, well, under the current circumstances of health and energy-level, I'm dancing as fast as I can, chillun, s'fast as I can.

Wearily, Harlan

Jon:

Good for you, and if I'd read you correctly, your candidate is Patti Dalton (London West). I'm a member of the NDP, both federally and provincially, and have been doing door-to-door work for Ben Lefebvre here in Timiskaming-Cochrane (currently held by David Ramsay, Liberal). We do think it can be taken, but Ramsay supporters have been using that twist of extortion by saying that we should retain a member in the governing party if we want to keep our say.

Well, it may seem overly optimistic, but I think that our true party from the left has a real shot at being the Loyal Opposition. I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

As for Scott, he mutters profanity at the choice on the ballot, and says he'll be the Libertarian candidate the next time around. "Somebody's gotta keep you Communists honest", he said as he voted.

Bye Bye Ernie...Bye Bye!

Melissa

Much as I hate to burst the "Ellison-letters" bubble--and much as I would myself like to see them--isn't there a standing order to burn all of Harlan's stuff upon his (it is hoped) far-in-the-future death?

I'm iffy on the subject of posthumous letters-publishing. Even though I have enjoyed collections letters from and to Shaw, Twain, Hemingway, Heinlein, Groucho Marx, and others, and even though I KNOW I would enjoy getting a crack at Harlan's correspondence files, I can't help wondering about the privacy issue. We recently discussed the issue of separating a man or woman from his or her art. I don't know that an artists owes the public anything MORE than his or her art. As much as we would like to, do we really NEED to know all of Pynchon, or Salinger, or whomever? That need-to-know can only be decided by the artist, in my opinion.

Here's something which has been niggling at my mind: How many of you actually write letters? Not e-mails, fan mail, thank-you notes, cards, legal notifications, but signed-and-sealed billets-doux or simple friendly letters?

This week, I got out the good paper and wrote out a letter to my best friend, whom I see every week, and speak to several times in the week. But I wanted to tell him what a great time I had with him over the weekend, and to hammer home just how important his friendship was to me. Plus, I wanted it to be something he could keep, whose existence was not predicated on changing or crashing computers. Mailed it off, and realized that it was the first actual personal letter I had sent since courting a woman in a long-distance realationship over three years ago.

(By the way--Limbaugh resigned from ESPN. In the words of Bill Hicks, "The elephant is dead!" And yes; I know he'll just use the incident as fodder for his radio show, claiming that that dastardly liberal media forced him off. Oh, well. At least I won't have to see him when watching ESPN at the aforementioned best friend's house.)

Tracey: _Night and the Enemy_ is the name of the entire collection of Ellison stories/Ken Steacy art. From this very website, I bring to you the contents list:

Night And The Enemy
1987, Comico
"Run For The Stars"
adaption and art, Ken Steacy
[reprinted from Epic Illustrated 11]
"Life Hutch"
adaption and art, Ken Steacy
[color version of story from Epic Illustrated 6]
"Untouchable Adolescents"
adaption and art, Ken Steacy
"Trojan Hearse"
text, Harlan Ellison; illustrations, Ken Steacy
"Sleeping Dogs"
adaption and art, Ken Steacy
[all new color art for story from Epic Illustrated 4]
introduction, Harlan Ellison; illustrations, Ken Steacy
essay "Whispers From the Telling Box", Harlan Ellison


Scott/Melissa: Yes, I voted -- but celver me forgot to check the candidate listings, as I forgot that the party affiliations aren't listed on the ballot. Invoking the 80% rule (80% of all female candidates are NDP) saved my bacon.

To paraphrase Stephen Leacock's Mr. Smith, "Now get out there and vote, boys, and keep voting until they make you stop!"

Off to the Mariposa ferry, Jon

Letters
Ah, the letters to and from Pynchon, alone, set the gums to drooling. Though I have to say that I've always been of a conflicted mind when it comes to collections of writers' correspondence. In general, I find letter collections terrifically fascinating. And often more informative and evocative than biographies. That said, I’ve read my share of epistles that made me queasy with the feeling of an invasive voyeurism. Many, perhaps most, writers wrote letters to stay in touch with far-flung friends or to gossip or to court or to argue. As Hemingway once scribbled, “I’m writing to get the dope,” that is, to catch-up, to gab, to chat. Unlikely he anticipated future readers over his shoulder, inspecting each postcard. If you’ve ever read Joyce’s letters to wife Nora, I’m betting you shivered once or twice with the unswayable certainty that these were not words for any eyes but those of his spouse.

But the question of Mr. E’s letter archive triggers another question: Has the writer ever kept a diary, a journal, a running log of his ever-busy life? Much of the non-fiction has a wonderfully intimate voice that I’ve always found akin to the best kinds of diaries. (“Valerie,” for instance, or the “Last Gasp” memoir of the pulp era.) Or perhaps all those columns, essays, reviews functioned as a kind of public diary on the run?

Oh dear....those letters I sent off when I was a teenager were probably pretty awful...mind you I have no idea if they actually reached him.

Once upon a very long time ago, I sent a sealed copy of David Geddes' "Run Joey Run" LP just for a laugh. (mentioned on HE's list-- I don't remember where-- of the worst songs ever written. Along with Yummy Yummy and The Figgy Pudding Verse.) Harlan does that ring any bells? I always wondered if it got there.

TEXAS

Brian,
Now THAT sounds like a fascinating idea-- I wish he'd do that. As we see here on a regular basis, everything he writes is treasure (especially when he's "feedin' somebody his lunch"- as Stephen King would say).

I may be wrong about this but I think Harlan has kept a copy of every bit of his snail mail correspondence. At least we can hope he has.

Cindy

HE stuff it'd be nice to see, & Cubs vs. Red Sox? Be afraid...
Back in 1967, the front of HE's collection I Have No Mouth & I Must Scream listed as forthcoming a novel called Dial 9 to Get Out. The occasional later reference or two said that this would be an autobiographical novel. That's one I'd really like to see.

As to the Cubs vs. the Red Sox....
http://www.borowitzreport.com/archive_rpt.asp?rec=703

Bests,

--tr

Well, voted today. C'mon, Ontarians, get off yer collective asses and do your job!

Me, I think it'll be Oakland and San Francisco this year. I'll be rooting for Felipe Alou to win a ring, even if it means putting up with Bond's smugness. In Montreal, he was given good teams in that were taken apart in annual talent fire sales, so he could never keep the base he needed to win it all there.

Sorry folks, but I remain true to colours. And, I've always carried a not-so secret joy watching the yearly miseries of Cub and BoSox fans. A two out double in the eighth in Altanta, and a squeeze in the twelfth in Oakland. TeeHeeHeeeeeeee.......!

Scott, who knows the Liberals will win up here. Oh fer chrissakes; a pure case of "Meet the New Boss, Same as the Old Boss"... "Won't Get Fooled Again", my ass!

Only a bump in the road.

HARLAN:

As a baseball fan and champion of the underdawg, welcome aboard the little blue Cubs bandwagon. Buckle-up and strap it down, it's going to be a bumpy ride. Last nights game was only the first bump.

JOSEPH:(MY PALE HOSE PAL):

That shiv in the ribs is pure rubber, my friend. Actually, I was hoping for a Cubs v. White Sox World Series this year, but, alas, your guys didn't hold up their end. The history lesson was awesome, thanks.

AlEX JAY:

A showdown of the perennial losers of each league, Cubs v. RED Sox…I just might have a stroke.

Best,
Ray

Actually, there's something else of Harlan's which I'd love to read, but which probably won't be published until after his passing. It'd be a collection of his letters.

Consider the people he's had dealings with, both personal and professional. There'd be exchanges not only with great SF writers, but with those he published while working at _Rogue_ and Lion Books, as well as the contributors to the _Dangerous Visions_ collections. There's the Free Press stuff, memos and notes from his TV scripting, exchanges over _I, Robot_ and other scripts...

It's stuff like this that make me wish I could edit the collection.

(I recall hearing that Harlan corresponded with B. Traven, but someone stole Traven's letters from Harlan's files. Makes my gut hurt to think about that-- especially now that I have the new DVD of _Treasure of the Sierra Madre_.)

It was announced this morning that South African writer J.M. Coetzee has won the 2003 Nobel Prize for Literature...I keep hoping around this time of the year that they'll announce Harlan's name...Well, wait til next year, I suppose...

Chris

HARLAN: Wow! "The Final Experiment of the Son of Dr. Moreau"
Conjures up images of all those Universal monster movies (especially "The Wolfman" and "Creature from the Black Lagoon").
(I'll definitely include the reissue of STRANGE WINE in a forthcoming column -- saw the "artwork" at the Ibooks online site -- unusual).
In any case, VERY cool title. I llllike it. Right up there with "Dead By Morning" or "Shoot Day for Night" (two other work-in-progress titles I forgot to mention below). By the way (just so we can watch for it), do you know the name of the anthology that "Introducing Bobby Pleshette" will appear in?
I remain on the edge of my seat -- knees folded up next to my chest like a monkey, toenails digging into the cushion for purchase while reading in this precarious position -- your number 1168 fan (I leave "number one," and all the images that conjures up, to Barney, heh).
--Dorman

I wonder.

Was "Night, And The Enemy" ever serialized. If so then I haven't read that entire story.

Hmmm. I think it's time for a HERC purchase.

DTS: One of my frequent lottery dreams is, after becoming the beneficiary of all that filthy lucre, I put together a movie production company and get Harlan's script of BUG JACK BARRON to the screen.

HARLAN: Thought you were a fan of the Tribe in addition to beinga Member of the Tribe.
Having said that, I have to confess that despite the fact the Phils are and always will be my team, I'm pulling for a Cubbies-Sox series as well.
Of course, the government'll have to go to Red Alert if such a thing comes to be, if only because the Universe simply will not allow either team to win.
(Peter David says a meteor hit in the ninth inning of a tied Game Seven with the bases loaded; I say an Al Qaeda attack)

JOSEPH: I hate to break this to you, but the White Sox may have themselves stolen the "[color] Stockings" appellation ... from Boston.

See, there was a "Chicago White Stockings" team in The National Association of Baseball in 1871, 1874, and 1875. However, there was a "Boston Red Stockings" in the same league all five years from 1871 to 1875. To make matters worse, the Boston team finished first the last four years--the only non-first-place finish was in 1875, when at 20 and 10, they finished third, behind the second-place Chicago White Stockings at 19 and 9.

Also, it appears that the Chicago team became the Philadelphia White Stockings in 1873 (it had the same personnel as had the Chisox), until in the next year, there was both a Chicago White Stockings and a Phila. White Stockings in the Association. To avoid confusion, the Philly team was usually referred to as "The Whites."

(there were also the St. Louis Brown Stockings in the National Association in 1875, which then moved to the fledgling National League for the next two years; the St. Louis Red Stockings, also in 1875 in the Nat'l Assoc. [the Brown team was the good one; the Red team sucked on ice]; the Worcester Ruby Legs [Nat'l League, 1880-1882]; the Toledo Blue Stockings [American Association, 1884]; and the Washington Blue Legs [Nat'l Assoc., 1873], in addition to a whole lot of assorted Reds, Blues, and Grays.)

But wait! I'm about to make it even worse on you! The Chicago White Stockings moved to the National League in 1876 before changing their name in 1890 to the Chicago Colts. That name lasted until 1898, when they became, for whatever reason, the Chicago Orphans. That one didn't last long; 1902 was their last year as Orphans.
That set up their last name change; to the name they bear to this day ...



... the Chicago Cubs.

(Do you hear the fans, Clarice? Do you hear them screaming?)

(all info courtesy of my crappy memory, augmented by stats and info from www.baseball-reference.com)

Ray,

Sure, stick another shiv in the ribs of an old Sox fan. (That's White Sox, folks, not the later team that is the Red Sox, who for whatever reason have tried to co-op a nickname the Sox had been using for far longer). That said, good luck to the Cubs. They're working hard and doing things just right, and deserve to get as far as they can. Anything they can do to shed that goofy Harry-Carey-party cliche is fine by me.

Regards,
Joseph

Ellison wish list
DTS,

I don't believe there is any book in this world I would rather see than a new edition of "Watching", complete with all later installments and other uncollected related pieces...and possiblymaybeideally(if I'm a good boy?) NEW film related essay material. I think I've probably read "Watching" more times than I have any other book, and I selfishly and undeservedly crave moremoreMORE!

If I could have one Ellison "item", yes, I believe that would be the one I would desire the very mostest.

Hello, just in for a minute to ask, no, beg all Ontarians both present and lurking here to vote tomorrow in our provincial election. I'm one who does believe that it matters, and urge you to exercise your right.

Vote. I don't care for who; I care that you do.

As to the question of what Ellison to feed your children, I delighted in my eldest, then seven, reading "Repent, Harlequin!, Said the Ticktockman" to my youngest, then a baby. She had a bit of trouble with the idea of Coventry, but Mom and Dad were there to explain. One of Danielle's proudest possessions is the autographed edition of the Underwood Press release, a gift from her Daddy. Myself, I like the tale for its children's book imagery melded into a fable's pace, and the lesson it teaches seems to grow in urgency year after year.

Love to all, Melissa

Teak, avoid the "Chomskite" stuff in the future. Chomsky has always been against his celebrity. And he hates cultic words like the one you just uttered. just study the man's work, and leave it at that.

But welcome to the coven.

--------------

Noah done fucked up now.

Go Twins.

TRACY GARNETT:

You don't mean "The Whimper of Whipped Dogs," which has never been graphically adapted; you are talking about my collaboration with Ken Steacy titled NIGHT AND THE ENEMY. Copies of which are for sale through the Harlan Ellison Recording Collection and are (I presume) listed for sale on the bookshop site here in Ellison Webderland.

SUZETTE COWAN:

Yes, as suggested, my most recent collection, TROUBLEMAKERS, was done specifically for the purpose you desire. It's for younger readers and contains edgy -- but not worrisome -- stories a younger reader can relate to. And if that one works, I suggest my art-story collaboration with the fine Polish surrealist, Jacek Yerka (available either directly from the publisher, Morpheus International, or on Amazon), the title of which is MIND FIELDS.

ADAM TROY-CASTRO is, apart from being one of my favorites of the contemporary writers working interestingly in the genre of the phantasmagorical, also a stand-up ethical guy, a friend, and a clear, sharp thinker. He makes the salient point I've been having too much fun kicking Noah to have explicated myself: it is easy to separate the man from the work. Just say, "Many of the films directed by Elia Kazan are extraordinary, he was an accomplished artisan, all praise to the Work." And then you say, "But as a man, as a human being, as a link in the chain of those who choose to do good as opposed to those who crawl in their own hubris and duplicity, he was a failure, a disgrace, a man who was properly despised by anyone who values moral, ethical, simply DECENT behavior."

RAY CARLSON:

Yeahhhhh, go Cubbies!!!!!

DORMAN:

No, "Mefisto in Onyx" (though I prematurely used that title once before I put it on the novella) was always "Mefisto in Onyx" and the novel I intended to write, SHRIKES, has not been written ... but it metamorphosed into nothing else. It's just sitting here in my brain.

But among your wish-stories to be completed, the one you forgot, "The Final Experiment of the Son of Dr. Moreau," is so close to completion (to be included for the first time anywhere in the upcoming Edgeworks Abbey/ibooks reissue of STRANGE WINE in just a few months) is mere days away from completion.

Yr. pal, Harlan

Re: YA ELLISON
Suzette, the book you want is Harlan's Troublemakers (iBooks), in which the stories are selected with young readers in foremost thought. Tracy, the Ellison/Steacy book you're thinking of is Night and the Enemy.

I started reading HE at age ten (1968) with "Shattered Like a Glass Goblin" and "The Prowler in the City at the Edge of the World." The damage was permanent.

Suz,' I wish I could find my illustrated edition of "The Whimper Of Whipped Dogs," and other stories. Ken Steacy did the renderings, and the stories would have been perfect for a seventh grader's introduction to Harlan Ellison. The plots detail the war between humankind, and a race of beings known as the Kyben. They're erudite, but accessible; poetic, but not melodramatic; they're philisophical, but they won't gag you with cliches. I also highly recommend his collection _From The Land Of Fear_, which contains stories like "The Soldier;" familiar groundwork for an adolescent, but definitely a level up from your typical, dull, jejeune, shitty episode of "Star Trek: Enterprise."

ALL: Now that the discussion has (momentarily) returned to things of an Ellisonian nature, what short stories, essays, and screenplays are you chomping at the bit to see between the covers of a book?
I can't wait until the "Harlan Ellison's Watching" columns are reissued under the Edgeworks/Abbey imprint; and I'm hoping that installments 35-45 (which were written and published in F&SF _after_ the book came out in '89) are included in the reprint. (I'm also hoping that the unproduced screen and teleplays, "Bug Jack Barron" and "Cutter's World," might be packaged with that reprint -- it'd definitely be a BIG book). Other than that, I eagerly await the appearance of stories and books-in-progress like, "Bring On the Dancing Frogs," "Pet," "Back 2 kcaB," THE MAN WHO SEARCHED FOR SWEETNESS, "Down Deep,", "I Weep For the Clone of John Barrymore," THE PRINCE OF SLEEP, "Cabin Fever," "The Last Survivor of the Bataan Death March," and BLOOD'S A ROVER.
Are those cool titles or what? (For those who don't understand the importance of titles, see, "First There Was the Title," recently republished in THE GRACEFUL LIE).

By the way,
HARLAN: Did SHRIKES "morph" into "Mefisto In Onyx?" (Just curious).

Time to get back to work.
--DTS

Without a doubt.

Of all the places one can go on the almighty internet, this is THE funnest place of all. Thanks, Rick.

Go Cubs!

PS
sorry--extra post--I should read more carefully, that request was directed at HE and not the gallery. oops.

Ellison for young readers?
Suzette-- I first discovered Harlan's work when I was 14. I was home sick from school, and my mother went to get some books from the library for me. She picked up Strange Wine because she thought it looked interesting, and I was hooked after just a couple of stories. I went back to the library the following week and took out Deathbird Stories, which also really grabbed me. Those two might be good for starters. OR-- pick a few of your favorite stories from different books, have your son read those first.

To Suzanne Cowan: Harlan did do a collection called _Troublemakers_, which was intended for younger readers. Other than that, it's a tough choice: a collection of Harlan's stories might include a terrific piece for younger readers like "Jeffty is Five," among a skull-freezer like "Flop Sweat" or an adult piece like "Would you Do it for a Penny?"

As for other younger readers, there's always Madonna's _The English Roses_, which gets a wonderful review in Slate at http://slate.msn.com/id/2089041/ This might make for an interesting gauge of character for kids. Put a copy of _The English Roses_ down next to a copy of _Coraline_, and see which one they pick up. (If they pick _Coraline_, we give them _A Young Lady's Illustrated Primer_, compiled by John Percival Hackworth...)

Ellison Works Recommendation For Young Person
Mr. Ellison,

Thank you for answering my question concerning Space:1999.

I have a request for a recommendation. My oldest son is 12 years old and in the seventh grade. He is nearly finished reading Philip K. Dick's Man In The High Castle and is thoroughly enjoying it. Although there is nothing wrong with the "Harry Potter" type series of books he had been reading, I felt it was appropriate to expose him to more complex material.

I would like to introduce him to your works as well. I have some ideas of my own but I would be very interested in your insight concerning recommended "first" Ellison reading for a young person his age.

Thank you for your time.

Respectfully yours, Suzette Cowan

Continued...
A thousand apologies for the afterthought -- it occurred to me seconds after pressing SEND.

One thing's for sure.

WHATEVER you think of Kazan, ie. whether the thought of his perfidy makes you ill, whether you believe his work redeems what he did, or whether you hate communists with such a passion that you wholeheartedly approve of what he did --

-- the current spin, among some daffy libertarian types, that in naming names he did something courageous, is ludicrous.

BY HIS OWN ADMISSION, Kazan was only interested in saving Kazan.

He was to brave moral stands what Bruce Ismay was to the code of the sea.

More on the Kazan / Bukowski/ Burroughs Kontroversy
There's another side to this art vs. character thing that has not been explored here.

To wit: if there's an author or filmmaker whose personal conduct is beyond reproach in every way...and his stuff sucks...we don't lay off the awfulness of his output on the grounds that he's such a nice guy.

It's hard to appreciate Picasso when you know he was a monster. It's hard to appreciate Kazan when you know he sold out others to save his own skin. But it's also hard to appreciate the guy who produces crap but happens to be a nice guy. Whoever directed DUDE, WHERE'S MY CAR? may spend all his time volunteering in soup kitchens, but why would we care, really?

It's gratifying indeed when both faces are commendable; when we learn that the terrific supporting actor Steve Buscemi, an ex-fireman, rushed back to his old squad on 9/11 and spent the next two weeks at the site working round-the-clock at his old profession, refusing the attention of any reporter who wanted to trivialize the situation by interviewing him; or, for that matter, when we reflect that nobody, but nobody, seems to have had anything bad to say about Neil Gaiman as a person. But it doesn't mean anything when it comes to our judgment of the work.

It means little to me, as far as appreciating their work is concerned, that Henry Fonda was an emotionally distant father whose life was peppered with the suicides of those who needed love from him, or that Frank Sinatra was a bully and a thug, or that John Lennon could be an appalling prick. Indeed, and I may get crap for saying this, I've written at length on my love for the better films of Charlton Heston, and my difficulties reconciling that with his glee at leading NRA rallies in cities that have recently suffered horrific gun massacres. Hell, my lovely wife won't see Tom Cruise movies, even when they're his good ones, as she finds his personal conduct objectionable.

Kazan's actions did show a poverty of personal integrity. He was not a man worth admiring. His selfishness and moral cowardice were so pronounced that they give ON THE WATERFRONT a nasty tone of self-congratulation which make it hard to watch if its resonances with his own life are actively considered. Had I been in that Oscar audience, I would have been among the many refusing to applaud him. But the work is an absolute value.

The Witless Protection Program
Harlan, any time you want, and I mean this, we can go back to letting people post 8 times a day or more if they feel like it.

Remember that? Remember The Way Things Wuz? Remember when you'd call me and say something like "Holy sheeznits, Wyatt, your board looks like someone gave Art Bell three hits of methylenedioxymethamphetamine and put him in front of a keyboard!" Remember when we had to hire that idiot savant because he was the only one who could keep up with the volume? The incontinent one? I had to burn my chair. I loved that chair.

I loved that chair.

Well, first I went over to The Other Place, read the overflow and everyone's response, giggling like Chief Inspector Dreyfus. Harlan was, of course, his usual diplomatic self. Heeheeheehhee! Kill Clouseau!!

Kudos in Rick's general direction for his efforts in cleaning up the mess here. I can see it was almost as bad as when Mr. Creosote exploded.

Now on to another matter:

Teak: "Is everyone actually suggesting that Kazan shouldn't be discussed apart from his sins?"

Nope. People here have wrestled with that demon, not only with Kazan but with several other famous people. I myself have had the same problem, loving Kazan's films while having contempt for the man. We can talk about both. We have. I have a video of Face in the Crowd. It's a great film. Kazan was still a selfish shit. It's the same problem I have with watching the Naked Gun movies (talk about shifting gears). Whenever there's a scene with O.J. Simpson, I just try to pretend that everything that happens to poor, hapless Norberg is really happening to Simpson. That makes it easier.

I think Charles Lindberg is one of the greatest aviators of all time, and one of the great pioneers. He also thought Nazi Germany was kinda keen, and went a long way toward demoralizing the British public with his tall tales of the prowess of the Luftwaffe - before the Luftwaffe had anything to threaten Britain with. How to seperate the two sides of this man? Discuss amonst yourselves.

There is no subject forbidden here. Feel free to write about any subject, but remember this is a group that talks back. Just remember we can't type you to death. We're...MOSTLY harmless.

And may I say to Teak and others, it's nice to see some new or usually unheard voices around here. I think that's what this little nook was made for. Welcome!

Chuck

Wait a second
Is everyone actually suggesting that Kazan shouldn't be discussed apart from his sins? Didn't this same board go out of its way to celebrate Ginsberg a few pages back, that noted boy-fucker and NAMBLA member? Didn't someone quote Bukowski just a few posts back despite his own admission that he's a rapist? I'm someone who generally thinks of myself as a Chomskyist (Chomskyite?) but even I can't see how ratting out strident leftists compares to what Ginsberg and Bukowski did.

And an amazing, causality-defying response to Chuck's post above! Copied here as an alternative to ghettoizing another post
Thanks, Chuck, for the cordial response. For me, I could never enjoy On the Waterfront, its anti-union propaganda filling me with blind rage, even though the film turned out to be prophetic. I mean, it is UNION corruption responsible for gutted pensions, soiled air, encephalitic babies, shitty advertiser-friendly TV. Right?

But in my teens I did really enjoy Ginsberg and Bukowski. Now that I'm older and better understand how egregiously they've infringed on people's rights, I can't see past the person to the art.

Evanier
Greg Hurd:

That was me with the Evanier mention. You're welcome! His site is amazing, innit? Now, here's a guy who has met up with, worked up with, and palled around with nearly every individual who ever worked in comics or TV. Knowledgeable, talented, and a nice guy to boot.

Anyone else interested, check out www.newsfromme.com

heeheeeheeeeee God I love it in here.......

RAMPANT, DISGRACEFUL GHETTOIZATION!!!!!!!!!!!!

Geezoo, you guys -- and particularly YOU, Wyatt -- sending my punch-toy Lemkin over to another site is like the time at a Readercon when they assigned two bodyguards to me, and I complained and assured the convention co-chairs that I could handle anything or anyone that came my way, that I was in no danger, and needed no bodyguards ...

... and they looked me straight in the eye and said, without humor, "Oh, the guards aren't to protect YOU from OTHERS, Harlan..."

So you lot can hide him wherever you choose, you can disguise him, dress him up in bunting and pantaloons, put him in the Ignorant Doofus Protection Programme, but -- as you can see if you go to the Forum site -- neither storm nor sleet nor stale bread can keep me from finding his ass to kick. Jus' call me Renfrew of the Mounties.

Defiant to the last, yr. pal, Harlan "he seems to've fallen over; prop him up so I can bash 'im again" Ellison

Not again...
Oh dear, another slug has stained the carpet...well, I'm just jumping in to thank the person (here?) who mentioned Mark Evanier the other day. I scooted over to his site(s) and am in heaven. I missed him in CBG and am grateful for this forum, so thanks ever so much. Also, if you need a laugh in the middle of the day, ol' Rush-El is in full Jim Jones mode. His head may explode by Sunday's pre-game. For the rest of us-stay away from the Kool-Aid.

One thing that people seem to forget about Kazan is that he himself admitted in his book that one of the reasons he snitched was personal! He had been upset by the way he had been kicked out of his Communist group and wanted to get even.

Hardly an honorable reason for ruining other people's lives!

If he had honestly believed that these people were a threat to the United States I could accept him ratting them out. But for revenge and personal gain, I cannot.

Well, Mark Walsh's two word post made me laugh out loud when I saw it earlier today, so it hasn't been all bad.

Alex Jay: I caught the tail end of the rant I think you're referring to -- the 'Donovan McNabb was never any good, he was just a product of the media's need to create a successful black quarterback'? That one?

I believe SI's Roy S. Johnson took Limbaugh's racism and his stint on the ESPN pregame show to task _before_ Limbaugh ever appeared on the show. Take a look through the Sports Illustrated online archives for late August/early September in the columnists section. I haven't checked to see if Johnson has written on this weekend's comments.

Cheers, Jon

By the time someone reads my remarks, the posts and the poster to which they are directed will likely have been deleted.
This is as it should be, in cases of such blatant disregard for the rules.

It should be pointed out that the posts will not have been deleted simply because the opinions presented were at odds with most of the posters here--that's fine, as long as the opinions are validly presented, with some modicum of intelligence and thought behind them.

Before anyone starts to grouse that opposing views are not accepted here--or starts trumpeting the word "censorship" around, a look at the arfchives is in order. There you will find the views of Frank Church, Rob, Cindy, Scott, and Todd Cassel--views that often run counter to the majority. You will also note that, with a few exceptions, the rules are abided by.

There's no reason, in debate or discussion, to piss in the punchbowl just for the heck of it, after all.

Now. Some may still assert that thee response to the poster in question was a "gangfuck," with all the Webderlanders piling on someone with differing views.

Well, as a man I respect once said, "Everyone is entitled to an INFORMED opinion."

The opinions posted by the person in question were uninformed by anything found in reality. Statements were made--with no little amount of bombast--without any supporting argument, and without any real knowledge of the situation under discussion.

Oh, wait--there WAS one supporting argument made: An article was posted in its entirety, which made the case that Kazan was merely weak and craven rather than actually villainous. Not quite a powerful defense of this poster's position.
Also, the article was posted, as I say, in its entirety--a flagrant violation of copyroight. In THIS forum, of all forums.

Then, having been spanked for posting an uninformed screed, the poster in question fell back on a repetitive "you're not paying attention to what I said!" trope, when in fact, little was said to pay attention to.

The only basic thrust of what was said was that Stalin (and Khruschev) were bad, so anyone participating (legally, please note) in the American Communist Party was a vile supporter of the Five-Year-Plans, the purges, and all that was perpetrated under the Soviet banner. Never mind that Soviet Communism was a twisted totalitarian version of the rather utopian society put forth by Marx and Engels, and that the "workers' paradise" dreamt of by the American Communists was simply not to be found in Mother Russia.

Of course, it's always easier to have a whipping boy, a scapegoat, an easy target. Just ask Coulter, Limbaugh, and Liddy. Darn those wacky Communists!

Kazan was an exceptional director; this cannot be denied. But he was a singularly UNexceptional human being, and should be celebrated only for his art, while reviled for his actions.

(Speaking of Limbaugh, I wonder why so few have taken him to task for his incredibly STUPID and damned-near racist comments asan ESPN commentator this past week?)

On Kazan
Mr. Lemkin,

Look, Kazan wasn't interested in thwarting Stalin. He was interested in making money and continuing his movie career. He even rationalized naming names by saying that writers could always use fronts but a director HAD to direct in person. Arggggghhhh!

Kazan has given his supremely "self-interested" motive so many times in print and in radio interviews that I even have come to think that he thought this was a good reason to sell your friends and colleagues down the river. Clearly, the political principle of the thing was always least in his mind. He didn't care if he destroyed people's lives as long as he could tell Marlon Brando where to stand on the dock.

But what if the people he named really held communist beliefs? Well, here's a simple answer: it's called freedom of speech. If I knew innocent (and let's not forget that these were innocent) people would do jailtime because of me--even if those people held ideas I disagree with--I would abandon my self-interest and keep my big mouth shut. It's that simple. You don't send people to jail because you dislike their views. Why I wouldn't even turn in a Bush Republican--and, beieve me, it takes a lot for me to say that.

And I say all of this with a full knowledge of what Kazan did for Tennessee Williams, for the actor's studio, for Brando, and for American theater in the fifties. His contribution to stage and film is enormous. But when things really mattered, he thought of no one but himself.

Incidentally, those of you who have seen Bertold Brecht's testimony will see what a man of integrity and a true artist would do in that same situation.

Mr. Lemkin, there were certain people who purposely wanted to see Rosenbergs everywhere in the fifties, and the anti-semitic bent of the HUAC committee is obvious, as Justin points out. Every time Ann Coulter says that Nazi Joe McCarthy is her hero, I know these people are still with us today. Your "fuck the commies" remarks stike me as surprisingly similar to the views of many right wing pundits today when they attempt to make a revisionist history of the 1950s.

Remember also that Scorsese and Deniro stood beside Kazan at the Oscars only after having made a movie called "Guilty By Suspicion," a movie that showed the coercive destructiveness of HUAC in no uncertain terms. Though they felt that Kazan should get his Oscar, they clearly disliked what Kazan did. They didn't try to excuse it, as you have.

Steve Dooner

Once again, someone can't shut the fuck up.
Noah, open your pie-hole ONE MORE TIME today if you'd like to never be seen here again. I don't care if you can't be bothered to look anything up before spouting off, but I DO expect you to at least read the few simple rules we have here.

Sorry, everyone else. I'll clean it up in an hour or two when I get home from work.

Update: completed. The posts can be found in the General forum. Sorry, Noah, I'll try to have better manners the next time someone takes away thirty minutes of my life and I have to be disturbed at work by reports of someone spamming the board.

But let's all never forget that the red scare actually started during Woodrow Wilson's watch. When people like fellow Anarchists were put in jail for handing out leaflets. Benign leaflets at that. We had a sedition law in effect untill 1964 that made it possible to jail anyone who uttered anything that might be anti-government. Liberal activism is how this fascist law was struck down. Meaning that freedom does not exist; it has to be fought for. Always.

On vigil, with my dick in my hand.

---------------

Being a Stalinist in the 40's was not so surprising. People of good faith were hoping that there was good in a working socialist state. The totalitarian intentions of Stalin made a lot on the left change their minds. They did mean well, though.

Goofs like Ramsey Clark are an exception. Of Course, no one sane takes him seriously any more.

---------------

Bush is in town today. I better not say anything. Ashcroft might have a bug in my ass.

------------

"Almost everybody is born a genius and buried an idiot."

--Charles Bukowski

Mr. Lemkin: There were no "Stalinist hacks" in the mix. Only a johnny-come-lately know-nothing would suggest that was even remotely a reality. But as you remain ignorant, to which we can now add dismissive and arrogant, I wouldn't expect you to know that. As for Kazan, his revelatory utterance that he would rather hurt others a little than "hurt himself a lot," says it all. He was an absolutely self-serving narcissist who cost us ten years' of Zero Mostel's best acting, the screenplays of a dozen or more Oscar-winning talents (some of whom wrote those films you all praise), and the entire career of Oscar-winner Gale Sondergaard, among others. But since you are ignorant, her name, Mostel's, and all the others, from Larry Parks on, are mere white noise to you. What rationale forgives Kazan for contributing to the ruin of important lives? Since when is HIS Art more worthy than that of the men and woimen he ratted out for his own self-aggrandizement and career opportunities? But don't let your stupidity get in the way of your sniping at me for my "canned spiel." Dumb is dumb, Toots, young or old, webhead or book-larnin' ... and every time you unfurl your banner you just sink deeper into the squish under your feet. Uh, you're ignorant; just buttressed tunnel-visioned obdurate ignorant; and until you've read eleven or twelve books (the homework assignment expands exponentially the longer you resist learning anything), your idiot remarks about the dreaded Red Hack Menace make you look steadfastly dopey to anyone with the merest faintest idea of what went on. Zip your fly, as well as your mouth, and go get smart.

As always, thine in cannedness, Harlan "More Knowledgeable Than Thou" Ellison

Is there a Jon Douglas West in the house?!?

Noah,

You sound like you're presuming anyone who was or had been in the Communist party during that era was inevitably pro-Stalinist. After the 1930's - once they understood what Stalin was about - few of them were, if any. That's why, by around 1950, the American Communist party dropped off substantially. And anyone who'd previously been in the party - or even those who still supported Marxist theory - did not deserve to have their lives ruined or treated as if they'd been spies. The author Howard Fast didn't belong in prison, for example.

My point is, Marxism is not the same as Stalinism. So stop banging the trash cans with that stick. You made a stupid generalization, and a lame argument.

Noah, your mother and I have talked. You're grounded.


So I took a class this summer, a survey of media history, and the HUAC situation was covered very briefly. No mention was made of the HUAC witchhunt's inherent anti-semitism. Not a word. I brought it up. The instructor had no idea what I was talking about, and seemed to want very much to avoid "getting racial." I plotzed. Being a goy, I don't plotz often, so that was something. Appalling.

Oh-boy.

Harlan, I credit you with introducing me to Santayana's maxim: "Fanaticism consists in redoubling your efforts when you have forgotten your aims." I imagine you'd forgotten the specifics of the post you were responding to before you were one sentence into that canned spiel about those terribly ignorant young folks who don't know their history. I'm well aware, thank you, of the number of innocent lives ruined by the blacklist. Go back and read what I wrote. I'm not weeping for the Stalinist hacks. Fuck 'em.

ROB:
Fair use notwithstanding, I appreciate your posting those links so I can catch up on the conversation. I know only a bit about blacklisting and McCarthy, today I have learned more.

RICH: "...keep your conversational dick in your pants..." was MUCH funnier.
ALL: the new James Bond has been picked. Can't remember his name, but I saw his face...he has a cleft chin! Visions of Bond movies with Lazenby, Moore and Dalton danced through my brain. Arrrrrrgh!
--DTS

I think I'm going to use the following in one of my next meetings:
"Blank as a slate, I'd rather listen to the chittering of orangutans than your senseless palaver."

(No offense to Noah. I know you meant well, but, well, you know when you start off with "I haven't done my homework and I don't know the identities..." HE's gonna hit those over 500 feet everytime. Oh, and by the by, check out the PBS archives as there was a recent airing of this very subject and, supposedly, an unbiased look at the motivations of some involved, notably Kazan and Arthur Miller.)

Internet resource problems
Rob--I spotted those Upenn files, too, and decided not to list them right away. If you examine them closely, you'll notice a problem with them: no copyright or permission statements. Those Navasky excerpts are several thousand words, far beyond the normal "fair use" allotments. I suspect they're up there under the notion of academic fair use (which allows the teacher to copy longer pieces), but that they shouldn't be on the open web where the readership is potentially millions.

For what it's worth.

--alex

Noah,

Make use of these crutches and from now on always remember to research before you posit:

The Social Costs of McCarthyism
http://www.english.upenn.edu/~afilreis/50s/navasky-social-costs.html

http://www.port-aransas.k12.tx.us/HS/HIST/mcCarthy1.html

http://exile.ru/shite/tenreas60.html

http://www.english.upenn.edu/~afilreis/50s/kazan-miller.html

http://theai.net/blacklisting.html

Kazan & Schulberg
Beyond the obvious films like "On The Waterfront" ,
Kazan and Budd Schulberg made that incredibly timeless "Face In The Crowd" with Andy Griffth as meglo-manaical Lonesome Roads.

Roads was a great combo of Griffith's nightclub schtick, and Will Rogers. It was Griffith's finest dramatic role.

Schulberg's a cool guy. Met him at a few Boxing matches in NY and Vegas. I've had a lot of conversations with the man, but never have the guts to ask him about Kazan directly. Only about their movies.

Kazan / Burroughs
I was in the midst of penning a fairly lengthy contemplation of the difficulty of separating the quality of the art from the character of the artist, whenever said artist has a history as problematic as Kazan's; and I believe that I made a fairly strong presentation to the effect that I had not defended Kazan the man at all, only expressed the difficulty of discussing the art as a separate entity; and I was about to post it here this morning when -- dammit -- local power outage turned off my computer and reduced the post to its component electrons.

No major loss, but I regret not being able to clarify myself, and it's now sixteen hours later and I'm about to collapse, without sufficient strength or inclination to re-compose that which was decomposed, so please assume I was rhetorically brilliant, as some folks know I have a habit of being.

Ah, well.

BTW: at least one daffy science fiction writer has publicly eulogized Kazan to the effect that, while his movies were certainly a fun time at the flicks, it's his courageous stand against the Stalinist infiltration of Hollywood that truly earned his time in Valhalla. One cannot even begin to argue with such a viewpoint, though I confess some are trying. A-TC

Mr. Lemkin:

Your post demonstrates a degree of ignorance that is no less than appalling. That you have never read a book on the Blacklist puts you beyond the pale insofar as venturing an opinion. Any opinion. Not just an opinion as mud-fence ig- norant as the one you have embarrassed yourself with here.

I have no idea how old you are, but you manifest yourself in just the way a stupid teenager, insensitive to anything that happened before s/he was born, would arrogantly puff up and honk an opinion devoid of any relation to History, Reality, or Common Sense. How painful to see a brain turned off, as the mouth turns on. You admit you know nothing, yet you cannot keep your conversational dick in your pants, while jamming your conversational foot in your yap.

Go read a book. Go read ten books. They've all been listed here from time to time. They're in the Webderland archive. There's fifty years of heartbreaking, terrifying, documented reading out there, by dozens of men and women who went through it, not to mention all the savants who've analyzed and studied it as an American Phenomenon. But even if they WEREN'T that accesible to a questing mind, which yours, apparently, is not, you demonstrate what's wrong with the internet: it's all there, for anyone smart emough or curious enough to learn EXACTLY what yellow ratbastards like Kazan did, but you're as dumb or as lazy as the same sort of slovenly thinker who couldn't be stirred sufficiently out of his/her moronic somnolence to go to the fucking LIBRARY to read up on events as black and hideous as what we're dealing with here.

Clearly, the availability of the internet has not had a salutary effect on people like you. You're ignorant. And it's probably time someone told you that in the straightest way.

Do not, I beg you, embarrass yourself further. Go read ten books; read ONE book if you can drag yourself away from the tube. THEN come back and voice an opinion. Blank as a slate, I'd rather listen to the chittering of orangutans than your senseless palaver.

Harlan Ellison

Okay. Devil's advocate time.

I haven't done my homework and I don't know the identities of the people Kazan ratted on. But I reject the idea that informing is always wrong. If Kazan finked on some harmless fellow travelers (or even some harmless CP members), then let him rot in hell. But if he ratted on the sort of people who liked to muscle their way into control of organizations (even organizations as essentially powerless as theatre groups) at the behest of the central committee; the sort of people who would gladly have handed over subversives if the revolution had happened, then fuck THEM, let them be stabbed in the back and rendered unemployable.

Kazan's dead. I'd be happy, except that he lived to be ninety-four. Edward Said went before he was sixty.

I'm about halfway through Neil Stephenson's _Quicksilver_. Still not sure what, exactly is _happening_. But it's an amazing piece of work.

All this talk of the Outer Limits, and the reversal of the _Mefisto_ property back into Harlan's hands, sort of begs a question I rarely see asked here. Harlan, what are your current projects? Anything we can keep our eyes peeled for, or at least, wish you well on?

Yippee, Kazan is dead, Kazan is dead! Light the halloween candles and drip the hot wax on one of those Blair Witch stick men. Dance around the fire nude, and chant to the unfeeling void, "Let him wander off as dust, but hopefully, he will end up manure." Put that snitch at the bottom of the east river. See how fun it is being evil--but evil with a glint of wimsy. Party time in hell. Start the cauldrens, and stew his innards, till they explode.

Is that too over the top? Wink.

--------------

One of the few times I ever got real mad at Chomsky was when he was asked about Kazan, and Chomsky said that he cannot be angry at someone who didn't have it in him to be brave. Hell, that snitch, Kazan knew he was fucking people over, and did it any way. It wasn't about him being brave. But you all know this. Cheers.

-------

Michael Moore has been saying some dumb things in support of the overrated Wesley Clark. Here is a great piece by Norman Solomon.

http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?SectionID=41&ItemID=4253

-----------------

"So far as I can remember, there is not one word in the Gospels in praise of intelligence."

--Bertrand Russell

Was sitting in the bathtub this morning (shower's on the fritz) thinking about the first time I'd heard of Harlan. 1977, I was a ten year old Star Trek/Star Wars fan, picked up an issue of Starlog featuring an interview with "Science Fiction's Last Angry Man." Yeah, that was right up my alley. The piece featured a quote from Robert Bloch (I'm paraphrasing): "Harlan is the only living creature I know whose natural habitat is hot water."

At the time I was unfamiliar with the expression "to be in hot water." I thought Bloch was saying Harlan is a sybarite who likes to lounge in the tub.

Makes me smile to think about it.

Kazan's (hypothetical) apologia
Earl Wells,

I know that, because it is made-up, fictional, and not-real Kazan apologia, that it probably doesn't need to be examined too closely. However, I couldn't resist saying that Kazan DID betray his art...because no artist works in a vacuum, alone, and to have any respect or love for one's art is to have love and respect for one's art-form, and the others who practice it. And by damaging others who would have done work as good or better than Kazan's, he betrayed his comrades and his art. And though we are all human, and therefore vulnerable to the same kind of pressures that must have caused Kazan to flip like he did to the committee, we must realize that if we DO give in to these pressures, as he did, we are not deserving of any special sympathy or recognition beyond it being confirmed that we are weak.

I know that second half wasn't part of your post, and I know you weren't really trying to excuse Kazan. But it sent my mind a spinnin'. Please forgive my indulgence.

rich,

Re: Scott being the "John Ford of science fiction".

Yeah, I read his comment a long time ago. In all honesty, though, Scott is very problematic. Though a talented craftsman visually, he has serious dives in narrative that can be tough to reconcile. It's a LOOOOOOONG leap he has to take to be a John Ford of ANY kind.

Scorcese, of course, even if his vision doesn't always align with mine, is an artist flat out - and an absolutely brilliant essayist.

Jon,

Just to clear the record...I was most soitenly d'one actin' the HAUGHTY, "lame, shallow" dork. Dunno HOW I misunderstood your "wince" statement. T'was MOST jejune of me.

Digressing briefly to another topic:

Regarding recent cool developments for exploration:

1) The Chinese will soon have their own version of NASA on their native soil, launching astronauts beyond the veil.

2) The European Space Agency is finally getting into the action. Using, of all places, the French Guiena in South America (like turning a gravesight into a shrine) the British are launching a satellite to the moon which uses a new ion drive. It will travel 5 times the speed of a conventional fuel system.

3) The Jovian moon Europa, which has an oxygen-hydrogen atmosphere and is covered with over 2 fucking miles of ice, has active salt water oceans (Io being similar). Researchers are studying the former Soviet Lake Vostok - also covered with nearly 2.5 miles of ice - because of its similarities in conditions for life.

It's simply cool to see news about the rest of the world really getting into the act.

Carnivale
I would be very interested in hearing what Harlan has to say about that show.

Kazan
Harlan,

I gather you don’t believe that, to paraphrase Faulkner, "If a filmmaker has to betray his comrades, he will not hesitate; 'On the Waterfront' is worth any number of old comrades."

But would you have any sympathy at all for Kazan if, instead of defending himself as an anti-Communist crusader, he said that he turned rat just so Hollywood would let him make his movies, that while it might be unconscionable to betray his comrades, it would be unbearable to betray his art?

(If he had said that, I would have a little sympathy for him. A little.)

Harlan/Scott/Rob: Yes, it's that story I'm referring to, misreported as it turns out in _The Outer Limits: The Official Companion_ by David Schow and Jeffrey Frentzen, which has Harlan fracturing an ankle. It's quite a jump, and knowing it was coming was much like re-watching _Excalibur_ knowing that the scene in which the horse almost certainly runs over the actor who's just fallen into the muddy water is coming up.

Scott: Saw what I think was the second episode of _Carnivale._ I don't know why it's getting so much bad press, as much of the bad press seems to boil down to 'this isn't like Six Feet Under or The Sopranos -- what's HBO thinking?' Leaving aside the Fellini and Lynch influences, I'd add _The Circus of Dr. Lao_ to your list. I do love seeing Michael Anderson, and I was also surprised to see Adrienne Barbeau again. Clancy Brown also goes on my underrated character actors list, mainly for his terrific work as The Creature in the mostly regrettable The Bride.

Cheers, Jon

All Sized Ideas for Sale:

Anybody else see the first two episodes of "Carnivale" on HBO (the Movie Network up here)? Very nice little amalgamation Of "Something Wicked This Way Comes", Todd Browning's "Freaks" and "The Grapes of Wrath". And, good to see Ralph Waite working again.

M. Ellison: Thanks again for correction. I printed the post, in case the issue ever comes again.

Kazan: I waste few words on scum, so I will simply state a phrase offered by my father-in-law toward another vermin who once wished it could walk as man, yet quite fitting here:

"...not even worth his weight in shit."

Scott

Apprently, I do have something to say about the dead so I beg pardon for breaking the rule, but I do feel this is important enough given the subject matter:

Elia Kazan said this:
But he insisted years later that he bore no guilt as a result of what some saw as a betrayal. "There's a normal sadness about hurting people, but I'd rather hurt them a little than hurt myself a lot," he said.

Now, in my mind that says bunches. And whether one agrees with the selfish attitude ('cause we're all somewhat selfish in the long run) or not, his word "little" speaks volumes. I wasn't there, but from what I've read and heard, people that were named did not hurt a "little" and I find the callousness displayed repugnant.

Nothing to say about the dead other than it seems they are coming fast and furious lately (Althea Gibson I saw in the paper this morning) and the world is the poorer for it.

A somewhat related HE note, but directed to Rob since he is adverse to visiting the other board:

Caught another look at The Duellists this weekend and saw an interesting extra on the DVD where Kevin Reynolds (Count of Monte Cristo and Waterwold to name a couple) talked with Ridley Scott regarding The Duellists. That alone is worth the price of the DVD, in my opinion (well, of course, it's my opinion since I'm the one writing this, but...anyway, moving on) and Scott mentioned the work of John Ford and I flashed on Harlan's comment in Watching that Scott wanted to be the "John Ford of science fiction".

There are only two directors worth listening to in regards to commentaries, Scorcese and Scott, and I would say that Scott is the more accessible to a "non-fan" or someone not really that interested in films. The more I listen to Scott, the more I have respect for the man and I think I can see (or, "hear") why Harlan would've been excited about the prospect of having Ridley Scott want to be the John Ford of science fiction films.

So for those that like Scott's work, check out The Duellists. For those that like a good movie, check out The Duellists. Made for $900k, it looks faaaaan-tastic.

Well...it figures. Harlan and I were posting at the same time and he beat me to it. So, I talked about Culp AFTER the fact.

That's ONE way to get my queries answered.

Scott Reeston,

"I believe that Jon was referring to the fact of the actor Culp making what was about a fifteen foot leap..."

Yeah. I guess I misunderstood Jon.

Ah. I'll insult him anyway.

Actually...I read an interview with Culp. Apparently, he abused the hell out of his body doing athletic stuff all his life. His feet and ankles were so messed up by the age of 40 that, in order to wear his shoes, he had to cut out the soles. His feet inflicted so much pain it was taking over his whole life. He conceded a doctor warned him in his early twenties that his joints were going to torture him in his later years if he kept abusing himself. The doctor's prediction came true.

He DID do some audacious stuff at times - in both OL AND I SPY. The only tv actor from them days I remember pulling stunts even more dangerous was Robert Conrad. (I still remember a scene where he dove off a platform to a staircase to tackle Richard Kiel. Now THAT one I REALLY had to respect; still makes me 'wince'. Stairs are dangerous as hell, man. Conrad is an asshole but I respect his physical stuff from that period.)

I'd love Harlan's input about Culp. The director Byron Haskin, who'd worked on OL, called Culp "weird". He was PROBABLY pulling every ligament in his body. Damn talented actor, regardless. Since SPACE: 1999 was mentioned recently, Anderson orginally approached Culp for the role Landau would later get. But Culp wanted to do it all: act, write, and direct. The price tag would be too high, so they moved on.

TO TODD HANEY:

Kindly do not sweat it. Such fervent apologies go way too far over the top. I sometimes get a wee pinch cranky, but you mustn't let such human lapses unnerve you.

Harlan

ANSWERS



1. Never met Orson Welles.

2. Not only did I cover every inch of the Bradbury Building (where DEMON was shot) by foot, and write scenes to fit the existing venues, but I carefully timed how long it would take for the elevator to reach from top floor to lobby, how long it would take to run down those flights of stairs and, when it became obvious to me that the only way one could have the fight on the top floor, struggle with the person throwing the finger into the mail chute, break away as the adversary was using the elvator to get down to the lobby and the mail drop receptacle, shoot it open and get the finger out of the mail inside ... before the elvator reached bottom ... was to JUMP FROM THE FIRST LANDING. It was hardly an oversight, Sunny Jim: I did the run from the top, did the timing, and made that jump myself. And not only didn't I sprain an ankle, or break a leg, but I WROTE IT TO BE DONE THAT WAY and Bobby Culp, as I had done, made the jump himself, sans stuntman. One of the reasons we are still close friends to this day, and why I love him so.

3. Elia Kazan made some great motion pictures. "The good some men do lives on, the evil is oft inter'ed with their bones." Good, the evil cowardly life-ruining fuck is dead. One less person I have to wish into Hell. Now I can enjoy the movies without guilt or animosity. But for those of you who jejunely intellectualize about "separating the man from the work," for me such remarks are akin to those of dilletantes who are "just so bored and tired of hearing about The Holocaust, gee, can't we just forgive'n'forget, and move on." Snitchprick shoulda damn painfully croaked in a gutter years ago.

VIVA ZAPATA is one of my absolute all-time favorites.

Less dichotomously than I may seem, I remain,

yr. pal, Harlan

Kazan vs. Burroughs
Last time I checked, Kazan wasn't drunk out of his mind when he fucked over eight people and solidified the blacklist. And I think Burroughs was actually repentant. But hey.

Humble apologies
Harlan:

I come forth, on my knees, to beg forgiveness for committing the sin of speaking when not in posession of accurate data.

Spent all day Sunday at work racking my barain. I could swear that I saw it this past week in USA TODAY's Life Section in their set of one-two line blurbs. I checked the USA TODAY site and performed a search of DEMON.... with no results-- it could be that someone at USA TODAY spotted it and pulled from the archive (the original copy has been recycled, alas). I also checked some of my other regular source sites--Comic Book Resources and Science Fiction Weekly (via scifi.com), but saw no items on any production.

Thanx to Alex for helping to assuage my ignorance. I had not seen the YAHOO info.

As a person who has taken to heart the concept of the "informed opinion"--put forth by you in AN EDGE IN MY VOICE--I wish to apologize again for touching on a sore spot. It's kinda like the clouds opening up, God looking down at you and then slapping you upside the head. But it was cool getting your attention my first time on the board.

I hope that our next interaction will be...different.

Stay well...

ps: I sure as hell miss the DREAM CORRIDOR.

Harlan, did you ever. . .?

Harlan,

I have been lucky enough to meet some radio greats. I met Clayton Moore when I was a kid (right around the time they forced him to wear those sunglasses). As an adult, at radio conventions, I've also met Fred Foy, Arthur Anderson (an actor with the Mercury), Rosemary Rice ("I Remember Mama"), and Arnold Stang.

Since it has been reported that you are related to the Shadow, and since I have heard that you met Rita Hayworth, I was wondering if you ever had a chance to meet Orson Welles? If so, what was your impression?

I also ask this because Orson is so frequently a topic here.

Respectfully,

Steve Dooner

Kazan: Achievements Vs. Living a Moral Life
It's a difficult issue, I know, and I know where our host stands on the subject of Kazan.

A few years back, I was on the Horror Writer's Association lifetime achievement committee, and I wanted to give the nod to William Burroughs. Even though I knew this was a guy who'd shot his wife in what was supposed to have been a reckless attempt to hit a target balanced on her head: I still thought that what he'd done on the page merited the award.

It got more complicated than I wanna get into, but no, Burroughs did not get it.

I try to be a good man - I try to be charitable and kind, and not think ill of those unable to defend themselves.

But Kazan can rot in hell, the little traitor.

I don't know, Alex. I think you've gotta be able to divorce the person from his work. I don't know if Kazan's accomplishments provide enough weight to balance his sins, but the same could be said of a lot of people.

You don't have to honor the man for his personal life, but as a creator he did pretty okay.

When I'm dead and gone, and my novel GHOST GIRLS is finally published, I hope people will be able to forgive my pederasty, slaying of nuns, defecation on the Eucharist, etc. Butcha never know.

Elia Kazan?
It's considered poor taste to speak ill of the dead, but I cannot honor this man--not for his accomplishments, not for his long life. Many caved in during the McCarthy era, but Kazan did worse--he made a virtue of it. Yes, many of his movies were terrific, but I feel as I did about Polanski winning an Oscar: there are people who have given up any right to be honored. Kazan is one of them.

Me, I'll honor Herbert Biberman, Lester Cole, Albert Maltz, Adrian Scott, Samuel Ornitz, Dalton Trumbo, Edward Dmytryk, Ring Lardner Jr., John Howard Lawson and Alvah Bessie.

Hell, if I did anything else, my mother would rise from the grave and give me such a smack ...

Elia Kazan: dead at 94

Discuss. (ducks into bomb shelter)

Smash 'Ems, and A Guy from

250 smackers in my pocket, and the joy of turning an Austin Mini into a concertina. There are days when life is truly good. For me, this is one.

Rob, who emoted:

"How lame and frivolous can you get?

If anything, consider we're talking about a robot. Robots have always been able to jump from first floor landings to beat an elevator. It was among the reasons Bob Culp stood there bewildered by some of the things he was able to do.

I think you deserve an insult for that shallow oversight, Jon. I'll cook one up later."

Physician heal thyself, pup. I believe that Jon was referring to the fact of the actor Culp making what was about a fifteen foot leap to a concrete floor, and do so in a crouched firing postion to shoot the lock off the mailbox mounted in the wall. If memory serves, during the filming of the episode our patron author attempted same said leap (some versions have M. Ellison doing it out of concern for his friend, and was prepared to rewrite the jump if it had proved too dangerous), and either greatly sprained or fractured his ankle in the landing. In any case, Culp performed it, and did it flawlessly.

Now, this is from recollection, so I am unsure my level of accuracy in retelling the anecdote. Perhaps the tale differs from reality, so I will ask our patron to arbtirate in one of the rare moments when he slows down to a perceptible blur. Or, if others have an accurate record, please bring it forward.

Jon: The Ellison scripted episode are now available on a second set of DVDs for the original Outer Limits series. The remaster is excellent.

Me go now.

Scott

My best friend Becky Rippy has written a humor book that is along the lines of Howard Stern's book, Private Parts with Erma Bombeck subject matter. Do any of y'all think it would be too objectionable for her to send the manuscript off to a potential agent with the working title Erma Bombeck's Private Parts?

:)
Cindy

Jon,

"Finally saw "Demon with a Glass Hand" on the Space Channel last week. Winced when I saw the first floor landing jump to beat the elevator."

How lame and frivolous can you get?

If anything, consider we're talking about a robot. Robots have always been able to jump from first floor landings to beat an elevator. It was among the reasons Bob Culp stood there bewildered by some of the things he was able to do.

I think you deserve an insult for that shallow oversight, Jon. I'll cook one up later.

On the filmed version of DUNE:

...why did I like GIGANTOR so much as a kid? It's so silly.

Doing some research on GOOGLE I came across a still from the seminal anime tv show of long ago. Dumb as it is, the image held me. It shows him raising his great steel fists charging up; I guess that amplified his strength. I was 5 last time I saw the cartoon in tv reruns. I LOVED it. The visual and audio rrrrOUSED me. Kinda like Anna Nicole Smith MIGHT have in her Playboy days. Why did it transfix me just now? I guess, never having seen it since, it took me back to the very emotions I experienced then. It was a homage to power. Yeah, power seems to be something I'm interested in. Whether it's to build or destroy is anyone's guess.

I remember liking 8th MAN too.

But I didn't like SPACE: 1999. The implausibilities and stilted characters and crappy writing were too much for me. I DID, however, rather like the pilot. It was genuinely unsettling, in spite of the implausibilities. I rented it two years ago. I utterly hated the second season; puerile as hell. FAR worse than the first season. You're right about Freiberger, Harlan.

Now UFO was a different kettle of aliens. I DUG a NUMBER of episodes. Had a fun yap with David Gerrold about it once - who envied what the producers got away with in one particular episode (the lead is condemned to ruin - for the rest of the series). What it would be like if he wrote and guided a reinterpretation of the series. He'd be just right for such a venture.

David Lynch just isn't the right guy for big, showy films. He is better at small, weird, independant stuff. The awful Lost Highway, a major exception.

--------------

Woody Allen is still a God, just needs to refrain from using his throne as a toilet for his ill psyche. His new movie is basically a primer in how much he seems to hate woman. Every clique from past movies in full regalia. Ebert liking his new flick does not stop the bleeding. I guess this is what dvd's are for.

-------------

In These Times has a good story about why Conservatives act the way they do; from a scientific study:

http://inthesetimes.com/firststone/

Todd and Cindy, study this--hard!

Wonderful rememberance of Edward Said, by the great reporter, Robert Fisk:

http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?SectionID=22&ItemID=4266

============================

"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it."

--Aristotle


-----------------

"

Whew. A week with good news on my front for once -- the lump the dentist discovered in my father's mouth last week turned out to be the salivary gland's equivalent to a kidney stone, requiring only brief surgery next week to remove.

David Lynch's Dune? Magnificent, weird and somewhat butchered by powers other than Lynch. There is that 4-hour tv version that Lynch refused to have his name on. It's generally shown in two parts (it's four hours with ads, natch) but I've never managed to catch it.

Harlan Ellison story? "The Pale Silver Dollar of the Moon Pays Its Way and Makes Change." Lovely, sad, compact.

Finally saw "Demon with a Glass Hand" on the Space Channel last week. Winced when I saw the first floor landing jump to beat the elevator.

Have a good weekend. I'd also recommend avoiding Liquid Cocaine (Goldschlager and Jagrmeister) shots. I think I'm still hallucinating.

Cheers, Jon

Faisal:

You're right, sorry for the mistake, and thanks for the information. We've already ordered ours, adding it to the list that includes the Indiana Jones trilogy, the Star Wars films (the original three) and a number of others.

Got to go. Packing up the kids to watch Scott at the demolition derby today. He's pumped: there's a whole $250 for the winner, and all the cars he can wreck. Get a proxy marriage to a blood relative and he'd be living in Arkansas hillbilly heaven.

Yes, Scotty has, and can play, a banjo. On the plus side, he still has alomost all of his original teeth.

Bye all, Melissa

Hoax or no hoax, you have to admit that the fellow behind the Welles/Batman debacle at least did his homework. Orson Welles definitely SOUNDS like Orson Welles in the article, and there's something inherently twisted about the character of Batman that might well have appealed to Welles. Where the article begins ripping at the seams is the proposed 'cast' for the film, sounding more like a fanboy wish-list than the real deal. I mean, c'mon - I'd love to see Patrick McGoohan as Galactus in a film version of SILVER SURFER, but it has as much reality of happening as James Cagney as the Riddler ever had of happening.

Ah, well. It was still a wonderful daydream. (Oh, and I still stand by my 'toffee-nosed cockroach' comment.)

-----------------------------------------------------------------

DUNE.

I don't have a severe problem with voiceovers, despite what Brian Cox's character from ADAPTATION said (you know, the guy who humiliated and belittled Nicolas Cage in front of an entire auditorium of hopeful screenwriters like so many film professors tthese days, confusing challenging a person's sense of order with shattering a person's soul.) They happen only at intervals in the movie, and they don't remove us from the action occuring. Nevertheless, David Lynch's DUNE is horribly flawed in MANY ways - perhaps one reason why I'm so attached to it. Strangely enough, Lynch's DUNE reminds me of Ang Lee's HULK. Both films are attempting to do something offbeat and eccentric in a format that usually doesn't permit 'offbeat' and 'eccentric'. The finished product is another story, but one at least has to admire the effort.

Dune
OK, I don't know what the general consensus on the board is regarding Dune but let me say it's a wonderful movie. Yes, some of the visual FX are quite ropey but theres some magnificent work in there (the Fremen running to the Sandworms, the matte work by Albert Whitlock, the design of the film), but more importantly, I have absolutely NO PROBLEM with the voiceovers!

For those who have read the various drafts of the script, it becomes apparent that seemed to be a last minute addition to the film. Irulan VO, Paul's VO, the Duke's VO, all of them, put in during post production, it was done well and they had good performances to pull it off.

I got those VO's when I was 12 and I still get them now. Sting is the weak anchor in the film and having seen his additional scenes on the MCA TV cut, he's even worse. Also that Lynch, by his own admission, didn't really understand the religion aspect of the film, which weakens it.

Yeah, its a failure but I'd still watch that failure then some other film maker's successes. I wish there was a proper restouration but that will never happen despite all the footage still existing in the Black Tower's vaults.

(Still one wishes what Haskell Wexler would have done with Dune had Arthur Jacobs lived? A SF equivalent of The Battle of Algiers perhaps? Or even how sumptious and insane Jodorwosky's take on it would be).

BTW - Getting Harlan related now, but Melissa, I was asking HE about his contribution to a DVD doco for the David Lynch film. Check out the link on my previous post. And check out his excellent two part essay on Dune in Watching.

FAQ

OH, yes...an utter drag about Donald O'Conner.

Cynical Girl,

I never brought up Woody Allen. Never even mentioned him. You crossed my post with someone else's. It may have been Frank's.

But since you brought it to MY doorstep...I LOVE Woody Allen. In spite of his misfires over the last several years I'll ALWAYS love the guy.

Yet to stop at BANANAS is like cutting him off at the torso. SLEEPER, LOVE AND DEATH, ANNIE HALL, MANHATTAN, and ZELIG are dynamite. I liked HANNAH AND HER SISTERS a lot too. If he doesn't make a decent film for the rest of his career I'll remain a fan for that body of work alone.

...NOW TO CORRECT AN ERROR I MADE EARLIER:

I'm only glad no one caught it to embarrass me until I could get back here.

I mentioned that ORSON WELLES once considered filming WAR OF THE WORLDS. That was Hitchcock I was thinking of, not Welles. He wanted to do it in the early 30's. The great author talked him out of it. NEVER get two Brits in the same room. They just fuck up everything.

Damnit. Donald O'Connor died.

Make 'em laugh, Cosmo.

Orson Welles Loved the "Funny Pages"

I just wanted to mention that Orson Welles loved the funny pages. In Peter Bogdanovitch's book of interviews, Welles speaks about being a fan of Segar's "Thimble Theater" and "Barney Google." He also adored Milt Canniff's "Terry and The Pirates," but he couldn't bring himself to read "Steve Canyon" because of all the right wing nonsense in it. Orson even appeared in a Superman comic, around the time he made the film, "Black Magic."

So next time you meet some pompous ass who claims to be a Welles afficionado speaking about comics with derision or about how Welles wouldn't lower himself to comics, give them what for!

Cindy,

Good to hear from you. Yes, the aspens are just starting to turn. I'll try to make it up into the mountains to see it. Take care of yourself. I sure hope your film is worth it. I never got to see The Tunic, mainly because of out-of-date equipment on my end. Maybe later.

As for David Lynch's Dune, I was a bit put off by the Cliff's Notes storytelling - a big, thick book crammed into three hours will do that. I also was put off by the cackling, mustache-twirling villains. Visually, the film was a feast. Lynch served up an interesting visual interpretation of Herbert's book - part futuristic, part mid-eastern roccoco, part Flash Gordon. That, I liked. I also like how they did the sandworms.

In the middle of the pretty stuff, was a lot of characters declaiming, mumbling, whispering and getting killed off.

Chuck

Slow night, taking a break from rearranging my furniture, so here goes.

Re Dune. I didn't like the film very much, but it wasn't for its lack of trying. The book's a monster, and fitting it into even a three hour movie's going to be a tough accomplishment. Which means that a lot of the details that made the book interesting were merely alluded to, or mentioned in passing, and the importance of such details couldn't help but get short shrift.

But it's clear that the movie was made with a decent amount of intelligence. It didn't try to dumb down everything, and turn it into another _Star Wars_. Its production design was terrific (a nice mix of old-Europe regal and wonderfully alien), it had a great cast, and perhaps with a longer running time and bigger budget David Lynch could have done the fantasy equivalent of _Lawrence of Arabia_.

I'd love to come up with something good and insightful to say about Woody Allen. But I can't. I'm as tempted as anyone else to niggle and nitpick over things in his movies that I _don't_ like. And there's this seemingly overwhelming tendency to link these dislikes to aspects of Allen himself-- not just for me, but apparently, for _everyone_ who writes about Woody Allen's films. (The reviews of _Anything Else_ have been overfond of discussing Allen as much as the movie itself.)

I am surprised at how angry people seem to get when Allen's films haven't been as good as _Annie Hall_ or _Manhattan_. It's pretty amazing: whenever a Woody Allen movie comes out, I see at least two or three reviews which state that his films don't make money, and the reviewer then wonders why he's permitted to make movies. I never see that said about anyone else. I also see comments made about his career decisions, made because of his need to support an expensive home in Manhattan-- for some reason, corrupt stockbrokers and real-estate speculators are OK, but Woody Allen is somehow unworthy of living in his favorite city.

Like I said, I have some problems with Allen's films, But I try to see them when I can. There's usually some good laughs in there, some priceless one-liners, and at least three or four good performances. And his films don't feel like regular, more slickly-made films; even the awkwardness is interesting.

I've always loved the Lynch version of Dune, and found it perfectly comprehensible--no mean feat, having never been able to get through a twentieth of Herbert's novel, but I've been an sf fan my whole life. Like most of my favorite Lynch films--Blue Velvet, Mulholland Drive--the narrative seems pure dream logic but has an internal consistency that greatly reminds me of Moebius. Unlike the beautifully-shot Sci-Fi Channel miniseries, the Lynch Dune has a lot of heart and _feels_ lived in, and Kyle McLachlan's performance purely captures Paul's weird innocence before the shit hits the fan and that innocence hardens into steel. I wish the longer cut, the one with more Linda Hunt, were released--sans the studio-prefixed brain-dead prologue which made Lynch take his name off _that_ version. So there.

I'm probably gonna regret piping up on this issue.....um....is it the general opinion of this forum that Dune was a good movie? It's many years since I saw it (once was plenty) but I remember disliking it immensely. Now I'm trying to recall what were the bits I didn't like, there were enough of them...I don't care for Kyle Maclachlan much anyway, but he is just too precious in Dune. The big deal it is when PAUL wants to be called PAUL MUAD-DIB. High drama. Big effin dib. And every time he has a THOUGHT, we get to hear him whisper it. "THE TOOTH!" "THE SPICE!". It gets very intrusive after a while. And the fat fellow, Harkonnen is it? They've got him floating round in a harness; the character in the book is supposed to be immense, huge, so obese he can't support his own weight. In the movie they don't bother to explain the harness business-- and he ain't quite fat enough to put the idea across without exposition-- so it just looks like a bit of scenery that'd spoil your lunch. And what was with the poor kittycats with shaved fur and electrodes attached hither and thither? Was that something I missed, or just more gratuitous icky stuff?

Woody Allen
I am a Woody Allen fan, but I confess that I've seen several different phases of his career, from the broad comedies of the early seventies to the more dramatic stuff that appeared later on; and though I remain capable of seeing the quality of stuff he did as late as RADIO DAYS, BROADWAY DANNY ROSE, CRIMES AND MISDEMEANORS*, and DECONSTRUCTING HARRY, I have seen a steady lessening of his overall quality curve, to the point where I have not been moved to see any of his recent productions in the theatre at all. Stuff like SHADOWS AND FOG, CELEBRITY**, and SMALL TIME CROOKS*** mark special low points in what I see as an ongoing degenerative process.


* The melodramatic half, with Martin Landau as a doctor beset by conscience after resorting to murder, is almost too powerful to watch; the comedic half with Allen is almost disposable.

** CELEBRITY had Kenneth Branagh give a painful performance as a character who was essentially Woody Allen; when Woody Allen casts others to play him, with his mannerisms, it accentuates everything that is annoying about his comic persona and nothing that is effective. The new film is supposed to have such a performance. Oddly, only Mia Farrow, in PURPLE ROSE, managed such a dead-on impersonation.

*** SMALL TIME CROOKS, the last Allen movie I, a previous completist, have paid money to see in a theatre, was condescending and obvious, with nothing to recommend it except my sister as a prominent extra, mugging at length at everything Tracy Ullman says. Our VHS tape of the film is kept cued to that scene, but other than that...

ATC

Herb Gardner
Harlan:

Sorry to have been the bad tidings bearer.

Mark Evanier has a nice bit to say on Gardner over on his blog:

"In the late fifties, he wrote and drew a syndicated comic strip called The Nebbishes, which is almost forgotten today. I have a pretty good library of books on comic strip history and I'm not sure it's mentioned in any of them. I remember it being quite funny and being extensively merchandised, mostly for things like cocktail napkins and bar equipment, at a time when strips rarely appeared on items that might be bought by an adult. Around 1960, Gardner gave it up and turned to novels and then plays and screenplays.

In addition to his impressive body of known work, he is said to have done a lot of unknown scripting. Sometimes, it was a matter of secretly assisting friends. Rumor has it he wrote all or most of the funny lines in scripts credited to Bob Fosse, especially in All That Jazz. He also is supposed to have done extensive punch-ups and revisions on some other pretty famous movies and plays by strangers, but information on these is vague. Even discounting all this, he leaves behind a pretty impressive body of work."

Faisal:

The Ellison interview is actually a panel he did with Octavia Butler, and John Harrison, with others. It is part of the DVD release of the Sci-Fi's Channel's mini-series of Dune, not the David Lynch film.

I'm sorry, Rick, in breaking the one post rule, but I don't want Faisal to pick up the wrong one.

Bye for a couple of days, Melissa

Demons with Glass Hands in the Machine
Harlan,

I couldn't resist taking a look after seeing your note to Todd. Did a search. Um....

Okay, the good news is that none of the references to the project imply it's going to be on a Screen Near You anytime soon.

The bad news is that once something gets loose on the internet, it's here to stay. Pages are set up and sent out into the distant corners of the web, never to be erased. There are wedding photos of people who, years ago, split up the record collection, the kids and the family dog. There are references to projects dead so long that they've stopped smelling bad--now they're petrified historical curiosa. No one ever bothers to update these old things. They hunker down like an old toad in a polluted river, become fossilized, and stay forever. They are ghosts in the machine.

And there are a LOT of pages that pop up when you put "Demon with a glass hand" and "twohy" in your search engine. I got sixty different addresses when I tried it on Google. Some aren't even in English.

I won't burden you with a bunch of addresses, but this one might be worth writing to. Yahoo Movies is a major source for a lot of people.

To get there, you have to go to a fill-in-the-blanks page at http://add.yahoo.com/fast/help/us/movies/cgi_previews

Er--should I explain how to paste the damn thing into your search bar?

Yours,

The bearer of bad news

FAQ: Yes. I did.

h

I checked on Hollywood Stock Exchange and it has Demon With A Glass Hand listed as in the "development" phase. Granted, Hollywood Stock Exchange is just a game-- but one could surmise that they try to use real information on the films and potential films they list.

I suppose that if someone read that and didn't know better they might jump to an inaccurate conclusion.

http://movies.hsx.com/servlet/SecurityDetail?symbol=DEMON

Don't know if that'll take y'all right to it bypassing the registration but here ya go.

Cindy

Just need to clarify this Harlan but did you recently do an interview concerning the film Dune for a DVD documentary?

http://www.duneinfo.com/kaitain/news.asp

Needless to say, I am a very big fan of the David Lynch adaptation of Dune. So a new DVD with a documentary such as this is great!

FAQ

Sorry Rob....but I can't STAND Woody Allen. He hasn't done anything worth seeing since Bananas (this is the part where someone stands up to defend Purple Rose Of Cairo. I will concede that it's slightly less dreadful than his other efforts since.)If you hate oul' Dennis because he tends to go on about the same things all the time, how about Woody's you-have-to-be-a-neurotic-New-Yorker-or-ya-just-don't-get-it schtick? Awful. And that goes for his acting too.

making the obligatory check-in

Cool. Another piece of Ellison trivia. Guess I'll have to hunt up a copy of _A Thousand Clowns_.

Joseph and Chuck: Thank yew fer yer s'port. It's been real nice dealing with Dan Savage, whom I did not "know" (and about whose work I knew very little) before I approached him last April about mentioning my book in his column. Only after he oh-so-casually proposed letting me do a guest appearance in his space did I read his books and realize what an honor he had so easily bestowed upon me. Now I hope I get to meet him someday face to face.

Mr. Ellison:

By phone my Scotty offers apologies; he's RC, but he'll be a good goy in the future.

Enjoy the challah and the celebrations.

Love to all, Melissa

THE BLOWING OF THE SHOFAR

SCOTT:

The shofar is not blown this Rosh Hashonah, because the beginning of the holiday falls on the Sabbath, shabbes.

Harlan

QUERY TO TODD HANEY

You mentioned you'd seen a "notice' (or somesuch) re: DEMON WITH A GLASS HAND going to the big screen. Since that deal is dead, as I've reported many times, but since yours is now the second or third "I read a notice" remark, I would be enormously grateful if you could search back through your memory or available periodicals or whatever, to let me know EXACTLY where such advisement appeared, what date, and precisely what it said.

I realize I shouldn't be quite so snippy about what you will perceive as a casual remark, but it is PRECISELY this kind of nebulous "I heard" or "I read" or "I dreamed" half-rumor that drives me nuts. Now I have to pursue this ephemeral jot of maybe-news down misty corridors of internet gossip, fanmagazine bullshit, johnny-come-lately columnist crap, and misheard, misread, misdirected and mishandled supposition.

Please find me the specifics, Todd. after all, you STARTED it!

Waiting patiently,

Yr. pal, Harlan

A few things I'd like to tie up here...

Scott,

I don't think you "diverted the Pavilion from its intended purpose." We've diversified topics here constantly. Exchanging thoughts about Libertarian theory is as valid as any other topic. And, frankly, I'd have been interested in seeing your response to some of my points. I shouldn't have to go to the other side just for that. I think that, perhaps, I just popped the bubble by drawing it out too damn long; meant to simply summarize my opinion, but as I banged away at the keyboard - getting pissed about a phone call I was supposed to get and never receiving it - it turned into a lecture. I suspect, given some sad events over the last few days with Gardner, n'all, Harlan just didn't have the energy to deal with it.

and HARLAN...I feel this should be your cue. If my advising is off - if you DO prefer tightening the thematic circumference here - PLEASE say so explicitly. You KNOW I won't listen to anyone but you and Rick. (Anyone else trying to tell me what to do here I tend to chase down in the playground with brass knuckles after school.) Otherwise, I'll just go on 'n on pushin' my warehouse of soapboxes...but perhaps less longa-winded.

FRANK,

I don't think you "offended" Harlan. (why am I trying to be his mouthpiece all of a sudden? I feel like HERMES) You BORED him with repetitiveness. Just as I tortured him with long-windedness. Look at it this way: Life consists of many things...besides politics.

I may be a sarcastic fuck but I was also making a point. I hope ya got it. Read a person's post before you reply so you're clear on what he/she is getting at. Otherwise, it makes you seem like a knuclehead.

And I'm not going anywhere near your damn belly.

JEFFREY,

RE: Welles. That's pretty much what I suspected. I've studied film as a serious aesthete for a long time, with some historical knowledge of where rights were going in them days of the cliffhanger. I read lots about Welles' career, and read nothing about his interest in filming pulp or comics heroes. His mind was, from the outset, in literacy.

At one point, perhaps because of its pertinence to his broadcast masterpiece, Welles DID consider filming WAR OF THE WORLDS. He was dissuaded by H.G. Wells himself. In this instance, I think both were being imbeciles, forgetting what a great story it is.

....AND, finally, in closing, I hate DENNIS MILLER. He's an asshole. USED to like him. But he finally got on my nerves. He SEEMS to lack serious interest in ANYTHING outside of football.

Holy Hoaxes, Batman!
Sorry to burst people's bubble (including my own - I *wish* this had been true), but it seems that Mr. Millar dreamed this up to "teach the fanboys a lesson":

- There's no record of any Lionel Hutton writing such a book
- The Riddler wasn't even *created* until 1948
- Between The Stranger and The Lady of Shanghai, Welles spent a great deal of time and energy on his Around the World in 80 Days stage play, not to mention his radio work
- Several of the actors mentioned had contracts with other studios (not to mention another studio which had the Batman film rights in the 40's)
- Peter Bagdanovich did a very meticulous interview with Welles regarding his career, including his various unfinished projects; it seems very unlikely that he wouldn't have mentioned this
(etc). Most of the evidence, surprisingly, comes from the Aint-It-Cool-News talkbacks:

http://www.aint-it-cool-news.com/tb_display.cgi?id=16188#679515
http://www.aint-it-cool-news.com/tb_display.cgi?id=16188#679479

It's a rather creative hoax:
- The George Raft/Bogie irony (Raft supposedly turned down High Sierra, The Maltese Falcon, and Casablanca)
- Gregory Peck is clearly an inspiration for the Batman of Kingdom Come
- War of the Worlds. Welles. Hoax. 'Nuff said.

Still, nice casting.

af-

From 'ORSON WELLES AND THE BAT-MAN' (Thanks for the link, Brian):

"The fact that Orson Welles was contemplating a Batman picture in 1946 is both glorious and fascinating to people like me, but embarrassing and crass to the Welles officionados."

Anyone who thinks that is NOT a 'Welles officianado', but a toffee nosed cockroach, thank-you-very-much.

Goddamn, that sentence ticked me off...

And while I am not off the faith, I certainly extend to those of you who are a Good New Year.

All Best,
Walshy

Dennis Miller is way funnier than Woody Allen!

Harlan, sorry I offended you Sir. Wish you would have told me sooner. This is your room. I will be a better puppy. Cindy, scratch my belly--gots my flea collar on baby.

-----------

Rob, your a sarcastic fuck, but that is for the better.

Now scratch my belly as well. Watch the nuts.

---------------

Saw Woody Allen's latest flick. Can someone tell the Woodman that intellectual masterbation cannot deflect ones brain from the idea of a well written story. And where is the humor? The flick was about as funny as Dennis Miller. Woody has lost it, I fear. Trolling for young cootchie has dulled his artistic sense. Bad day at the popcorn emporium folks.

---------------

"...when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth."

--Sir. Arthur Conan Doyle

Correction:

It's Shofar, dammit. Maybe I was thinking of Torah...

Sorry, Rick, I'll shut up now.

Scott

To those of faith:

From Melissa, myself and our family, I wish you the best for Rosh Hashanah, as the call of the Shorah brings in year 5764. May the apples and honey be sweeter than years before.

Apologies for my contribution in diverting the Pavilion from its intended purpose. In the future, I'll keep it to things more pertinent.

Scott

Most resonance....the one that comes to mind is "Eidolons". I've probably read that one more than any other HE story. It really grabs me and I am still trying to figure out why.

L'shanah tovah back to Alex from another M.O.T.

Sorry to hear about Gardner. I admired A Thousand Clowns enormously, not only for the character of Murray but also because Gardner didn't -- as a lesser writer might have -- sneer at or spit on Murray's straight-arrow brother. Terrific work.

Another good one gone.

--tr

Hey, Harlan...

I'd like to second Steve's exquisite salute on what I realize has been one of our bleaker days.

And sorry about knocking the wind out of everyone with a long-winded wind. I'll keep it down to a single volume.

BRIAN: I'm not soi sure Millar didn't make it up. Somehow, I can't quite see the Welles of 1946 envisioning himself and no other as Bats.

Oh, my God. Harlan, this'll make yer jaw drop. Remember the movies Donny and Jeffty enjoyed in "Jeffty is Five?" Here's one that might've, could've, should have happened.

http://www.comicbookresources.com/columns/index.cgi?column=thecolumn

It's about an aborted attempt to make a motion picture of _Batman_ in 1946-- written by and directed by Orson Welles. With Basil Rathbone as the Joker, James Cagney as the Riddler, Marlene Dietrich as Catwoman, and George Raft as Two-face because Bogart turned it down.

On the New Year
Harlan,

I offer my sympathies on the loss of Herb Gardner. I am a huge fan of "A Thousand Clowns" and "I'm Not Rappaport." I've wanted to mount theater productions of both, and still hope to someday. I was amazed to hear that you are one of the voices that crept into Gardner's plays. I am always fascinated by the permutations and archons of Ellison everywhere.

I recently read over your ending to "On the Downhill Side," where the two lovers melt into eternity forgetting this world, and I was very much affected. There's something in that ending better than the vanities of religion. I cannot tell you how much that story means to me--all the unicorns that I cling to and must also send away.

Your final dedication to Twain at the end of "Deathbird" is also something I really love about that book. I feel little touches of "Letters from the Earth," "Captain Stormfield" and "Mysterious Stranger" in your work sometimes, and I keep thinking that Satan's request--that we dream other dreams and better--is the best description of the stories you've been writing all these years.

All this is my awkward way of saying that I know the loss of a great writer like Gardner must hit you hard. If the world seems to be growing more silent with all the lost voices, I want you to know there are many of us out here still listening hard to the voices we have.

Tonight, Harlan, in the solemnity of a New Year, here's to you. Here's to Moby Dick, Joseph K. and Larry Talbot; Mark Twain, H. G. Wells and Ray Bradbury; Edgar Allan Poe, H. P. Lovecraft and Robert Bloch; Sherlock Holmes, The Shadow and exra large Clark Bars Veda; Borges, Tlon Uqbar and the Aleph; Batman, Captain Marvel and Blackhawk Island; Lightnin Hopkins, B.B. King and Elyse Weinberg; and here's to about a bzillion other things that come to mind when I think of Harlan Ellison.

I'll keep listening here, and I'll keep trying to hear more.

Steve Dooner

Just a few words...
My introduction to Harlan--aside from the STAR TREK ep "City on the Edge..."--was in his collection of essays AN EDGE IN MY VOICE. I had never run into such an informed, irate and intelligent voice before. His essay on the doomed man who "threatened" the Washington Monument--an event I watched on TV--opened my eyes as it filled them with tears as Harlan related the story of Norman Mayer that didn't make it on the national coverage and the price we paid as a nation when he died. If you haven't read this and the other slices of informed, often stormy, observations, go out NOW! and pick up a copy! I said NOW, dernit!
Have you been keeping up with Bill Maher's REAL TIME on HBO, Harlan? I never got to catch your spots on POLITICALLY INCORRECT (tho I would've killed to have seen you throwing down on Star Jones--must've been a sight to behold...). Any chance we could see you on there in 2004? It's like WASHINGTON WEEK, but with more cursing--LOTS more cursing.
I saw a bit of news that said that DEMON WITH A GLASS HAND is headed for the big screen--any news on that?
I hope that this finds you and yours doing well. Hello to everyone else out there! Some good conversation going on here.
Peace.

Hi Chuck,
I'm fine and you can bet I won't be doin' THAT again.
:)
How 'bout you? How are you feeling these days? I'll bet it's beautiful up there right now.. have the Aspens turned?

Cindy


I wonder what Mr.Gardner's reaction was upon learning the actual identity of the devil behind the early morning Greenwich Villiage announcements. Mrs. Goldfine's walker-- Godallmighty that's priceless! I prize sleeping late undisturbed--but I'm afraid under those circumstances I would have had to have crawled from my warm bed at the butt crack of dawn to listen for the latest bulletin.

Cindy

Mark Walsh:

"Anyone else interested in chipping in with their fav lesser known stories by Harlan?"

I don't know if it's actually one of my favorite stories, but the HE story that I find to have the most resonance is "The
Man Who Was Heavily Into Revenge." I probably think of it in relation to events in (what passes for) real life on a weekly basis. Something about the whole concept that revenge may do exactly what you want it to...and help you not at all, seems sadly true when regarding most of the vindictive lawsuits, etc. out there...

Happy New Year
L'shanah tovah tikatev v'taihatem to Harlan and all mine other landsmen, and to all you gentiles, too. L'shanah
tovah tikatevi v'taihatemi to the ladies. In Judaism, this is the time of year to apologize. Apologies to God go to God, but we don't get off by asking God to let us off the hook for slights done to people. We have to make amends personally. So: if there are any here I've offended, slighted, or just plain hacked off, my sincere apologies. May your year be sweet.

Hello everyone. I hope the end of September has seen you spiritually enlightened, and filthy, disgusting rich to the point where Gates, and Buffet are yesterdays news. I haven't read any prose lately, but I've been delving into the world of subatomic particles quite a bit. Quarks, Tetryons, Fermions--I'm the man (Which is to say, I've been researching them, though I have no immediate plans to fold space, or make passage through a black hole...having my constituents pulverized, and translated into x-rays...the usual highs.).

It wasn't that long ago that I vented some serious animus towards Fred Freiberger, and the funny thing is, I'm not prepared to take any of it back, or make amends, or have my guilt eloigned.

I guess I'm just an asshole. I would like to thank Mr. Ellison for responding to my remarks. He had a 1,000 better things to do.

I liked "Space: 1999" the first season it was on. The scripts for the show were fairly awful, right down to the premise. The funny thing was, through a combined effort of the actors, the special effects, the eerie Wagnerian sound score by Barry Gray--they were able to pull it off. The final product was a tale of survival, and humanity in a hostile universe.

The second season sucked. Insulting, sophmoric, illiterate--these things are possible. The savant behind "Scooby Doo," and "Spock's Brain" imparted yet another kiss of death to a struggling series. It's a shame because Martin Landau is a fine actor. He deserved better.

I hate it when the other shoe drops. Not that I knew these three personally, but I enjoyed their work. I even made up lyrics for "Addicted to Love", these here lyrics were about Hollywood, turning the song into "Addicted to Crap". Kinda like what Tony said in his last paragraph. No, I won't inflict them on you.

David,

I hope that in spite of your local paper, your book is doing well. Sounds like you're really working hard to promote it.

Cindy,

How are you? You okay?

Chuck

Gardner
Dang. I loved A THOUSAND CLOWNS.

I just want to congratulate David Loftus on his fine appearance in the current column of "Savage Love." He gave some fine advice about relationships and porn, and got in a nice plug for his book (well, Dan Savage plugged the book (no, not like that, ya sicko)). Way to go, David!

THE LETTER "R"

That was, naturellement, RESPONSES.

ESPONSES, as we all know, is a virulent strain of butter product.

h

ESPONSES

Oh, shit. The sound of that third shoe hitting the floor is as one with the sound of my broken heart. Oh, dear, oh, crap ... Herb Gardner gone. The creator of the Nebbishes; the man who lived somewhere just beyond my Greenwich Village apartment and heard me screaming out my windows very early every morning at dawn, "Listen up, New York -- you've got to stop throwing the rattan furniture into the pool -- would someone please return Mrs. Goldfind's walker, this isn't a funny joke -- to all able,
we'll be gathering on the south lawn for badminton practice at 9:30 -- and you'll have to do something about the dinginess of your spare change -- " and suchlike lunacy, and he put it into A THOUSAND CLOWNS; and didn't know it was I who was that demented voice in the airshafts till years later ...

Herb, too, now is dead. Fuckshitpisshelldamn. Be careful what you ruminate about; it may come to pass sooner and more horribly than you desire. I wish I hadn't opened my yap.

inabif: thank you. Yeah, I just wanna flee all that dopey political crap, too, but how does one get through the fog to say, simply and not hurtfully, to Stan and Frank: nobody wants to stifle your Fridum of Spich, but keerisakes what a pair of bores you've become. Maybe not as exhuastingly long-winded as Rob, but didactic to the point where several of us have entered into a mutual suicide pact: we're going to plunge to our deaths off a stack of Ann Coulter tomes if we have to be lectured to much longer.

You are a fine entity, inabif, and I supplicate mineownself at your feet for the clarity and compassion of your advisement.

And for Ms. Suzette Cowan, I respond that I liked very very much the first year of SPACE 1999. Never watched a moment of year two, because I was fully familiar with Fred Freiberger's ability to turn gold into dross; so I spared myself the lancets of pain.

I also liked -- a lot -- UFO.

Herb Gardner dead. Hard to take.

Harlan

Ah, was a shock to learn about the death of Edward Said.

Actually Brian, I also hold a Pakistan passport... does that let me in? And there was the time I could have got Nepalese citizenship....

FAQ

"Rob and Frank...I'm not sure that listing those names demonstrates that Hollywood is right-wing any more than my listing left-leaners would prove that Hollywood is left-wing."

So I says to TONY and FRANK...

Sit yer asses down because you BOTH missed the point. Frank, because you, as always, glanced at a few words without reading the whole argument (I'm now convinced that you’re here mostly to listen to yourself, with very little interest in what others have to say; but when you do this and repeatedly post responses that miss the question posed you make yourself appear dense and stupid. So, you’re not doing yourself a favor - I’m letting you know that) and so sought to rattle off your own pointless list of the Who’s Who of Hollywood Righties; Tony, because you overlooked the aim of my little list and therefore its legitimacy. Muh post was a DI-rect response to Stan’s ingenious theory that IF Hollerwood were being run, ruled, n’regimented by the Right we’d see more G-rated movies adorn the countryside. Harlan already ‘splained him that the execs - who are conservatives - run La La Land. Stan simply concluded that, well, Harlan is fulla shit. Thus, there was little point in reiterating that matter. A list of the TOP of top money-makers in Hollywood - most being conservative - became necessary to exemplify who is exploiting mindless super R-rated violence to make the easiest buck, and to whom the execs cater most. The biggest box-office and the biggest studio paychecks by-and-large go RIGHT. Content control easily rests in their hands...n' I ain’t be seein’ no G-rated flicks out there. So, my tidy little list was a vacuum tight response to Stan’s vision of a chaste G-rated universe. It had a very clear point.

Do we understand each other now, Tony and Frank? ("YESSIR!", they says.)

SCOTT REESTON,

It took me a while to get back to you. I wanted to add some thoughts to the Libertarian discussion you had with Mark and Spooner.

Libertarianism and Communism...the two share some IRONIC parallels! They were both responses to a system that didn’t seem to be working, they are both pure theory, and they both SOUND good. Most importantly, as theories they share a fundamental oversight: human nature.

In the early 20th century, the theory of Communism became popular in the U.S. and Britain because people didn’t like what they were seeing around them. In fact, they didn't like what was happening to THEM. Big money was controlled by the few, conditions in the workplace ranged from miserable to thoroughly lethal (employees often paid a pittance below the cost of living, even when laboring in a death trap), companies lied about their products (as in the meat-packing industry cited in Upton Sinclair's THE JUNGLE) to minimize cost and maximize profit because there was no regulation yet, and the majority of the population remained poor. The Herbert Spencers were blind if not indifferent to a blight sweeping the land. Capitalism, in many people’s mind, just wasn’t working. To them, the principle of the masses controlling property and wealth - ownership ascribed to the masses - sounded REALLY good; the concept was like a release valve and a rallying cry. Anything that offered parity hinted a safe haven. The rich old laissez-faire capitalists would actually stoke growing sympathy for Bolshevism by the years shortly after the Russian Revolution.

The Libertarian theory - the antithesis of Communism - has grown in popularity for a number of similar reasons. Disgruntled by the behavior of politicians and the cumbersome bureaucracy of government, unhappy with what they see as an intrusion on economic self-determinism, groups came out arguing, quite literally, that the government that governs best is the government that governs least.

Pro-Communists believed, prior to the Soviet bastardization of Marxist philosophy, that the will of the people would best serve the common interest, removing exploitation, abuse, and poverty from the tapestry. It was the only way we could MAXIMIZE EQUALITY. However well-intentioned, they overlooked the entrenched tendency in human behavior to abuse power - the instinct inherited from our early ancestors to horde territory. When given the advantage we tend to want to keep it, savor it, wield it, and repress those who might try to take it away. Thus, the Communist and Socialist movements failed to consider what would happen if the machinery of economic distribution were placed in the hands of a small group (supposedly representing the interests of the people). At a time when pure Capitalism swept the land unchecked, destroying lives as well as the environment, these people could only see the evil facing them already; there seemed little energy left to consider consequences in proposed alternatives (particularly those resting in untested theories). So, they accepted an option that SOUNDED good.

Likewise, Libertarians, simplistic self-appointed modern-day champions of the Horatio Alger story, assume businesses, bound by the laws inherent to competition, would run some smooth course. That by some unspoken law, enterprises small and great would keep their behavior in check. Government - even if it represents the will of the people - is deemed an encumbrance. Keep government OUT entirely: it is the only way we can MAXIMIZE EQUALITY. If you want to keep customers flocking to YOUR business, integrity would be essential and consistent. Yet, we already have the historical models to tell us otherwise. Without regulation - without laws to bind businesses as much as anyone else - chaos follows. Where profits are the language of power we will lie wherever possible to not only keep what we have but expand it...at the expense of the masses. From the "robber barons" of 19th century railroads to ENRON, history comes full circle to demonstrate what happens when we minimize regulation or disregard it completely (conversely, if too MUCH regulation stretches the playing field it can become likewise counterproductive). Like the pro-Communists of the early 20th century, Libertarians fail to consider our animal heritage: take away accountability and people WILL abuse power.

To make a final point, Libertarians thrive on a theory. They assume blindly that theirs is a system that would work. Because they only see the problems around them - some of their subordinate arguments being perfectly legitimate - they take a position seemingly without asking themselves what problems might emerge in the alternatives they offer. What potential collateral damage can you visualize? It’s as though they envision a consummate paradise. In effect, they apply one solution to all problems. But reality is more complex than that; nearly every problem demands its own solution. That's one reason we have the Securities and Exchange Commission. It's also the reason we drafted a constitution. And that consititution evolves and continues to do so to meet problems that weren’t foreseen - from the abuse of powerful capitalists to civil rights.

Communism and Libertarianism - two extremes, yet sharing the same oversights and offering simplistic solutions. In their plight they both failed to understand the answers lie somewhere in between; the shades of grays to meet the lights and darks of a complex world. In its blind, unquestioning faith Libertarianism is more like a religion than a political movement. It isn’t scientific. At least Communism had the excuse of being an UNTESTED theory. There was little precedent. It simply SOUNDED good (as does the Libertarian call to arms) - giving disadvantaged people hope to confront the crises of the day. But Libertarians DO have history to draw from - human nature inscribed in the pages of history to illustrate what happens in different socio-economic settings. Yet, they seem to disregard it (or they're ignorant of it) - and with a cockiness inveigle those disgrunteled with the status quo from common sense. This makes Libertarianism one of the biggest fallacies of all.

In reply to inabif's post, I'd like to make the following comment.

The very first time I was 'officially' introduced to Harlan Ellison was through A WHIMPER OF WHIPPED DOGS, the most genuinely horrific short story I've ever come across and one that would accelerate my already passionate hatred/fear of gigantic congestions of humanity and the mass indifference often found within them. Indifference, or the loathsome joy of seeing one hapless individual suffer, a human trait dating all the way back to the days of the Roman Empire.

That's how I was 'officially' introduced to Harlan.
Unofficially, Harlan was present throughout my entire childhood, his explosive appearences on the show SCI-FI BUZZ leaving such an impression on me he almost became a kind of third parent, forming a weird triad - My Father, My Mother, and My Short White-Haired Holy Ghost.

My favourite Ellison story to date remains I HAVE NO MOUTH AND I MUST SCREAM. I intend to plow through MEPHISTO IN ONYX, just as soon as I finish Sir Walter Scott's epic odyssey of medieval tedium, IVANHOE.

Yea, I hate political diatribes. Giggle.

Rich, if Noam Chomsky, Ed Said (God bless him), Howard Zinn, Gore Vidal, Michael Moore, Robert Fisk, Greg Palast, Arondahti Roy and others are extremists, then dammit I am one proud member of that cabal. You mushy moderates can have your flag and your SUV's. Would rather be behind the bushes with the freedom fighters.

------------------

We do repeat ourselves a bit here. Will try better.

-----------------

Great, Edward Said died. Bet the Coulters of the world are getting a big laugh out of it. Their "anti-American" scapegoat crossed the yellow line. I think I am sick.

-------------------

Todd, you have no room to talk, you neo-con nut. Rush Limbaugh's ass dimple. Kisses.

----------------

"American politics are deeply contradictory of course, but anti-intellectualism . . . is the common strain. This includes a deep suspicion of anything that isn't simple, fundamental, traditional, down-to-earth and "American" in the ideological sense, and can be exploited easily by demagogues and cynical politicians of the right. The key word is "freedom", which includes the freedom to own and use firearms, the freedom to trade and use the marketplace without restraint even if it means serious injury to health and decency, the freedom above all to make America's will rule all over the earth"

--Edward Said

Amen, good comrade. Sleep in peace. One day the Palestinians will not be slaves. One day.

inabif, right on!

inabif has perfectly summed up my thoughts and feelings over the past week or so. Each and every day this board is looking and sounding more and more like the old bulletin board. Which, if y'all remember, was shut down for the same type boorish, strident behavior now being exhibited here regularly. I fear for the life of Harlan's dining pavilion, that it may succumb to the same fate. So, my dear friends, won't you please kindly take your political diatribes to the new bulletin board?

inabif....Amen!!
I loved what you had to say inabif. That was great and I agree completely! I would love to read thoughts on not only Harlan's works, but about all kinds of books. I think the Stephen King discussion was interesting. I recently commented on some fantastic titles of books--titles that alone make the heart sing. And not one person had a comment. They would rather talk politics ( snore ). Aren't there other places for that? I rarely comment on the board. But what you had to say is something I have voiced before--just not as eloquently. Just get ready to be bashed!! And given quotes about how this board is for all kinds of disscussion coz Harlan said so. See how they miss the point completely??

I'm ready to be assimilated! Hail Canada! (well except for Cote St Luc....ick.)

Brian:

You seem to forget Scott, Jon, Velvet, and myself. Here we sit in that great expanse of the north, right above you, enjoying socialized health care, a more rational attitude toward firearms, within a system that in many ways is more democratic than your own, and you don't even worry about the slow creep of our way of life slowly eroding your own?

Don't worry, we'll do it in traditionally Canadian fashion. You won't notice a thing. You have more respect toward goverment, and your beer will taste much better. You Americans have always secretly enjoyed the violence of hockey, anyhow.

Melissa Reeston, writing on behalf of the Assimilate Americans, Eh? Program, sponsored by the Prime Minister of Canada, the Hon. Jean Poutine.

Opinion of the British series Space:1999 (Year 1)
Mr. Ellison,

I enjoy your works and I have relished your responses to questions and comments on this board. Your bluntness and seasoned wit are refreshing.

I would like to know your thoughts on a favorite old science fiction series, the British produced Space:1999 from 1975. There were two distinct versions of the show, year 1 and year 2. Year 2 was the Freddie Frieburger-ized version which transformed the show into a poorly scripted, Saturday morning children's action/adventure series.

I would be interested in your opinion of Space:1999 Year 1. If you have a favorable opinion, would you have ever considered contributing stories for episodes, had the series not been lobotimized into the year 2 version?

Thank you for your time.

Respectfully yours, Suzette Cowan

The Other Shoe
Herb Gardner, playwright ("A Thousand Clowns", "I'm Not Rappaport").

From his NYT obit:

'When asked by a reporter for The Los Angeles Times in 1993 to describe the playwright's profession, he replied, "How do you ask a kamikaze pilot if his work is going well?"'

Sounds like an Ellisonism.

I'll have
I’ve been browsing this site for a year or more now, remaining silent for the most part, popping in on just a handful of occasions to ask a question of Mr. E or his more knowledgeable readers. It’s often a fun and interesting place. And I’m aware of the organic manner in which even digital communities bend and grow. But of late, I find myself chronically disappointed by the lack of discussion about Mr. E’s work. I don’t mean this as a criticism (or at least not as a harsh one) so much as an observation, but the one notion of the Web that argues against my own Luddite tendencies is the idea that communities of similar passion can be forged across time and distance. Historically, it’s not been unusual for lovers of books – especially books corralled in the imaginative genre – to find isolation before they found communion. It’s what makes the communion so rich and liberating, such a saving grace. The notion of a technology that makes it easier to find some clan of readers, of a technology that creates a space where that clan can come together and trade reading experiences, trade titles and authors’ names, and argue over perceived merits and failings of stories and writers and that primal, intimate experience of reading – well, the notion of such a technology made me somewhat less cynical about this wired world in which we’ve found ourselves. So I’m made a tad melancholy when I see this space used to trade (sorry, folks) knee-jerk, simplistic political (with the smallest of “p”s) barb and counter-barb. Jeez, kids, we’ve got talk radio for that kind of middlebrow schoolyard “debate.” Last I checked, the name of this space was “Unca Harlan’s Art Deco Dining Pavilion.” Which fact makes me wonder: Were we invited to the genuine, mortar-and-brick Ellison Wonderland, and slid our behinds onto the leather (or is it Naugahyde, Mr. E?) of that gorgeous and inviting dining nook, and the writer himself were present to serve up the refreshments, is this really the line of chat we’d want to pursue? We’ve got the man who wrote “Shattered Like a Glass Goblin” and “A Boy and His Dog” and “Croatoan” ladling out the chili, and we want to behave like the drunken Rotarian hot to wrestle the radical chic dilettante? Again, don’t mean to carp or sound so sour. But we all ended up here because we shared that same moment – you know the one – when our heads first were bent over that dog-eared paperback of “The Beast That Shouted Love at the Heart of the World” or “Paingod” or “Deathbird Stories” or “Angry Candy,” and we finished that story or that paragraph or that sentence and we blinked once and then again, and we knew we’d been remade somehow, that our consciousness had been tweaked for a second there by a shaman with a battered Olympia. I’m not saying we have to get along. No, sir. I’m saying it’d be great to argue about the guy whose dining pavilion we’ve had the good luck to converge upon. Okay, back into deep cover.

Taking Candy From A Baby
Gang, might it be best to temper the spirited debate over Stan's postings? After all, though 15 years older than I am, he appears to express himself weakly and with childish petulance. Rich had it right when he compared him to Frank; those two are so extreme that they practically meet on the other side of the world.

As for Alex Jay and his dictionary quoting of Liberalism; I'm please to note in my Webster's that one of the definitions of Conservate is "...marked by or relating to traditional norms of taste, elegance, style, or manners." Yup. That's me in a nutshell!

Wait, other definitions state, "stressing established institutions" and "preferring gradual development to abrupt change" and "prefer an existing situation to change" and "one who adheres to traditional methods or views".....and, and, and.

Gasp! I'm not Conservative after all! Thank you Webster's New Collegiate Dictionary! Thank you world! I'm free! I'm....I'm....I'm Liberal!

Run, Hilary, run! Please give me the chance to stretch my newfound soul and punch that chad on the Clinton/Gore III ticket!

To Stan B., who asks, "To everyone in here...quoting Rodney King...."Why don't we just try and get along!"...unquote. So what if I am conservative and Republican...so what if most of you in here are liberal and Democrat....hell...AREN'T WE AMERICANS FIRST?"

NO! We are NOT all Americans first, because FAISAL is still a subject of the British Crown! Until he renounces that perfidious allegiance, and leaves Albion for the shores of the Free Colonies, we will NEVER get along! NEVER! SO THERE!

On the deathwatch front... There was the loss of Edward Said, then Robert Palmer and George Plimpton... and I just learned that Gore Vidal's partner Howard Auster passed away this week, too. (Sadly, Norman Podhoretz still draws breath.)

Harold Bloom's anti-King editorial's popped up in the Philly Inquirer this week. Has it occurred to anyone that Bloom has really thrown his rep away here? He's fine on the classics, and I'd turn to his work to enhance my understanding of Shakespeare anyday.

But he's decided to engage in the cheapest sort of hackery a literary figure can perform: take something immensely popular, adopt a snobbish tone and denounce it as unworthy of the term "litrachaw," and watch as thousands of rubes get worked up and outraged. It's nothing more than a cheap stunt, one far below the standards of King or Rowling. He might as well strap on pantaloons and a jester's motley, and dance in a barrel of filth while screaming about how he's protecting society from unruly munchkins.

No subject just a comment
To everyone in here...quoting Rodney King...."Why don't we just
try and get along!"...unquote. So what if I am conservative and Republican...so what if most of you in here are liberal and Democrat....hell...AREN'T WE AMERICANS FIRST?

They come in threes.

George Plimpton and Robert Palmer have died.

One anticipates the dropping of the other shoe.

Not with joy.

Harlan

Sorry, Rick, to violate the one post rule, but Goerge Plimpton has died. Damn. After Mailer, my favorite sports writer.

Double Damn.

Scott

Mark:

Don't worry 'bout us little libertarians, perched on the edge of the political spectrum. We're doing fine, slowly recruiting members as we go (And, without the pod program we'd engineered in 1957. Dammed McCarthy!). The mythos we have to break through in both of the countries is the notion of being a third party (Up here, we're considered the fifth party), and therefore a wasted vote. Odd, if you remember the effect the Green Party had during the last US election. One wonders how Gorebot did in that mail-order voodoo course he'd been taking. Anybody seen him rummaging through Nader's garbage of late?

I think a more pressing question will be your mental health after your Sox go out and find some spectacular means to lose another chance at a World Series, the curse of Ruth once again defeating the dreams of all Bostonians. How do you guys survive experiencing this futility time and again? Even self-flagellants know when to say "Enough"...

Remember, you have friends here, even those who snicker with glee as another sighting of baseball's Flying Dutchman appears on October's horizon. I won't even mention Bucky Dent, honest.

Steve: The issue of targeted DoD spending is one of my peeves of government, but do recall that Bubba raised the hulk of SDI from the political scrapheap and began to resell this boondoggle to the American public. In fact, both parties have largely worked to ensure that the Pentagon will be well fed and growing. The people of your nation have to start to ask why, or at least demand that the budget overruns within military contracting be red-penned, and eliminated. I can understand a strong defense, but won't accept fiscal irresponsibility.

There's enough money out there to solve economic problems. I just wish someone would do something about keep it under control.

Scott

Personally, the recent "liberals suck, no conservatives such, no you suck, no YOU suck" conversation reminds me of Harlan's really awesome lament (I can't find it!) about people who say "and nothing will ever change my mind!" I want to say that this particular posting of HE's might be in July, because I didn't see it while skimming back into early August. I coulda missed it though. Perhaps a few of the staunch "I am what I am and nothing will ever change that" folks oughta go find it. And read it. And understand it.

That's it for me. Just saw "Bowling for Columbine" and am sitting on it (not literally), thinking, sorting out the various responses I gave during the movie ("What the f...?:" "Yeah, you said it!" "No way..." and so on). If nothing else it's making me think and that can't be bad.... can it?

--Zoë Rose

I agree that "ram it down our throats" is a very tired and absurd cliche that, from my observation, is employed mostly when the speaker really means to say "I keep having to hear or read things I'm uncomfortable hearing and seeing." Well, guess what? Discomfort is one of the main causes of thought.

Mark Walsh claimed that once academics get hold of something in popular culture, it's no longer hot or a threat. Would that it were so. I found it interesting you used the word "movement" to apply to the porn industry. It ain't a movement by any measure I can imagine: it's been going a lot longer -- centuries -- and in a much more piecemeal fashion than any Paglian or Foucauldian trend.

My measure for how little progress we've made on the topic, in terms of social attitudes and substantive analysis, is the number of bookstores and newspapers who have fled in terror from giving me or my book any attention or exposure. My hometown newspaper, The Portland Oregonian, which has printed half a dozen free-lance features and stories with my byline, probably a dozen letters to the editor authored by yours truly, and incidentally published several photos of me in action (with my morris dance team, for example), would not write about my book. Never reviewed it, won't do a story on my fairly herculean efforts at self-promotion -- since my publisher has done squat.

I've heard every excuse in the book, from "Our author event area is right next to the children's section" (Borders in the Bay Area), to "There just wouldn't be any interest in your book; there are a lot of civil union couples in this town, mostly female" (The Book Cellar in Brattleboro, Vermont), to "Your book is not controversial enough" (University of Oregon Bookstore).

There are no powerful government forces out there trying to shut down most of the other flavor-of-the-month pop trends that various academics have taken a shine to; with pornography, it's always "different."

Personally, I see no difference in Stan's ramblings than in Frank's ramblings; extremism is what it is whether it be right or left and neither one makes a whole lot of sense.

Throats correction.
Whoops. The dangers of composing on line.

I don't keep "saying" this phrase, I do keep "seeing" it.

Grump.

Ramming Down Throats
A certain species of conservative (not all of them, by any means) is unduly fond of saying that liberal opinions, homosexual lifestyles, political correctness, etc., is being "rammed down our throat."

I keep saying this phrase.

"I have nothing against homosexuals ... but when I see a gay character on TV, I'm offended by his LIFESYLE being RAMMED DOWN MY THROAT."

I see this sentence, or variations of it, in the letter columns of Time, TV Guide, and local newspapers.

"Hollywood keeps RAMMING THEIR OPINIONS DOWN MY THROAT."

Uh, the gay character on that show is a next-door neighbor? Never shown actually engaging in sex? Tolerated to the effect that he's portrayed as a nice guy?

"They keep RAMMING these CHARACTERS DOWN MY THROAT."

Uhm, since most Hollywood films are defenses of the status quo..what is precisely wrong with the occasional film that shows us America's warts?

"THEY KEEP RAMMING THIS AGENDA DOWN OUR THROATS."

"I WISH TIM ROBBINS WOULD STOP GIVING SPEECHES. HE'S RAMMING HIS LIBERALISM DOWN OUR THROATS!"

B-but...why shouldn't he be allowed to?

"DOWN OUR THROATS! DOWN OUR THROATS!"

Seen once or twice, this formulation is just plain stupid, the usage of folks who have no idea what it means to have something jammed down their throats; as a regular, constant, multiply-repeated accusation, which I have seen literally dozens of times, in all sorts of publications, it seems to reveal a certain obsessive, one would almost say Freudian, cast to the mindset.

Just an observation. A-TC

Harlan: In previous interviews, I've heard you speak of your experience as an actor. I'm just curious, have you been offered any acting rolls since your guest appearances on "Psi-Factor" and "Babylon 5"?

Stan: If anyone's feathers get ruffled on this board, it seems to be yours. Do you think that if you hadn't set yourself up as the Webderland's Republican punching bag you get hit so much by the insidious lefties who post here?

Just wondering,
Walshy

TO SCOTT, FRANK. ALEX ....ET AL
Well...I guess I am tired of liberals trying to ram their agendas down my throat. So to all you liberals in here, I am so sorry that I rankled your fur...I think broad mindedness can be equally as damaging as close mindedness. I am fifty seven years old...I used to be Democrat...but I was a conservative democrat.But what the hell...I am what I am today....and nobody is gonna change that! The Democratic Party I once belonged to, looked out for the working man...that is not the case anymore. Frankly, we are all liars anyway, so I really don't give a damn
what you liberals think or say. Adios. (Harlan? You are still a hell of a writer and I have the greatest respect and admiration, even if we do not agree politcally and maybe philosophically. Best of luck to you and Susan...this is my last message in here for while...I am having some puter problems...bye now.)

Mark,

Always been partial to "All the Sounds of Fear," "No Fourth Commandment," and "The Function of Dream Sleep." And I think that "All the Lies That Are My Life" is one of Harlan's finest.

Rob & Frank,

I'm not sure that listing those names demonstrates that Hollywood is right-wing any more than my listing left-leaners would prove that Hollywood is left-wing. How many of the folks in your lists can get a movie made simply because they think it should get the green light? Their names may go on the marquees, but I kinda doubt they control what we see. They just help the chosen projects make money. I think you had it pegged later in your post, Rob -- the execs. And Frank, if Hollywood was liberal I doubt all the movies would be art house films because they wouldn't bring in enough money. But you might expect to see project after project in which the stories tell us that our traditions are shams, our institutions are corrupt, and our lives are endless exercises in hypocrisy. If that means they can do one where maverick Arnold whips up on corrupt CIA-guy James Caan, then maybe they make some bucks. Maybe it means they get to look courageous by making American Beauty, and then maybe they win some Oscars even if they don't make as much money as they'd like.

From some of the pieces Harlan's done, it sounds like the problem isn't so much that Hollywood's liberal or conservative, but that lotsa people who don't know how to tell stories are trying to tell real writers how to tell stories. That kind of stupidity probably cuts across all the political lines.

Bests to all,

--tr

Prof. Edward Said died today...one of the bright stars...

That should have been, "No, STAN" ...
Apologies to Steve Dooner and any other Webderlandic Steves.

STAN B.: A few points, if I may.

"Gee," you write, "I struck some nerves."

No, Steve; what you did is generally referred to, in terms of discussion on the Internet, as "stirring the shit." Basically, it's something equivalent to "stirring the pot," but without any actual merit, without anty contribution to something that would cook anything, or create anything, except for discord.

Also, whether you meant to troll the board or not, you made a rather serious lapse in simple manners. Where I come from, in informal settings, it's one thing to tell one's host that he or she is a good bullshitter. Such a comment is usually jocular, and is made in an affectionate way. It's another thing entirely to tell the host that he's full of bullshit, or, as you put it so very eloquently, that he is a "master of bullshit."

Bad fucking form, and one which in most social groups would demand an apology.

What you did, Stan, was make several blanket statements without any citation to back you up, then when said statements were refuted, fell back on a disingenuous toe-scuffling sort of, "Well, ha-ha ... guess I riled people up, huh?"

Here, for your edification, are the definitions of "liberal" which apply to people's beliefs, according to Merriam-Webster: "2 a : marked by generosity," and "5 : BROAD-MINDED; especially : not bound by authoritarianism, orthodoxy, or traditional forms."
"Liberalism," furthermore, in regard to the discussion at hand, carries this definition: "2 c : a political philosophy based on belief in progress, the essential goodness of the human race, and the autonomy of the individual and standing for the protection of political and civil liberties."

Yep. That's me. Liberal to the core.

Of course, you may find this hard to believe, but we liberals don't necessarily march in lockstep on all things, as many staunch conservatives would have it: It's rare that I find myself agreeing with Frank Church--and I even differ on various issues with people whose persons and words I greatly respect, and whom I consider friends. Go fig.

An aside: You seem inordinately concerned with the sanctity of human life. Funny; I don't think I've seen you at the soup kitchen ... or the blood drive ... or donating to World Hunger Year ... or supporting any initiatives that might ease the burdens of some of your fellow human travelers on this globe ... Or do you feel, as Bill Hicks once put it, that when people reach a certain age, "they're off your love list"?

By the way--whatever happened to your, "But anyhoo...no more political spins, comments or diatribes here." of three months ago?

Yes, Mr. B, "The shit flows." Unfortunately, it looks as if it's YOUR hand on the faucet.

Stan B., to quote:

"...if liberal means freedom to kill human babies, saving trees, whales, and anything else that
walks or crawls that is other than human...freedom to shoot up, snort or ingest any drug that eventually will take your life...
and/or the freedom to dump morals on the ash heap, just so that
you have the freedom to do what you want with your body and any
one elses for fact.....then Frank...I am glad I am a Republican and I am glad I am conservative. You can have your liberalism..."

That's the self-righteous crap that makes me ashamed to be classed as a conservative. You see, Stan, freedom and liberty is about everyone's respect and acceptance for the right of all to make choices, INCLUDING those you might find offensive, dependent upon perspective.

Whether or not I choose to agree or disagree with Frank, or any of the more liberal members of this little internet constituency on their political or personal opinions or viewpoints isn't the point. It is their right to equal space in this forum to state their point of view, and my responsibility to respect they and their opinions and arguments enough to challenge it through the evidence of fact or experience. No snide Coulter brand chestnuts and half-baked Limbaughlogic for me, thanks. I'd like to think I'm better than that.

Alongside that, I wait calmly and patiently for them to eventually find that I'm right, and then I'll try not to be too smug in my correctness. You gotta bring the kids along with patience and love; let 'em make their ideological boo-boos as they will.

Scott

Stan---I am not a Republican. Does that mean I must be in favor of all that on your list?

Stan smiles.....:)
Gee....I struck some nerves. I am so glad that everybody is alive in here. The shit flows...and as my late murdered brother once told me...it happens...so keep on moving!
Frank Church I feel sorry for you...if liberal means freedom to kill human babies, saving trees, whales, and anything else that
walks or crawls that is other than human...freedom to shoot up, snort or ingest any drug that eventually will take your life...
and/or the freedom to dump morals on the ash heap, just so that
you have the freedom to do what you want with your body and any
one elses for fact.....then Frank...I am glad I am a Republican and I am glad I am conservative. You can have your liberalism.

Click
So I'm gonna shove in here and ask Harlan a question: Do you take photographs? An odd question, but it goes to a theory I am chewing on at the moment, with regards to writers.

Until next time. . .

Jim Hess

In Praise of the "Lesser Known" Ellison Stories:
We all love "Mephisto in Onyx" and we all love "Shatterday," but I'd like to take a moment and extol the virtues of a lesser known story of Harlan's that remain one of my favoirtes. Not only did I thoroughly enjoy "The End of the Time of Leinard" but I also think it's one of the finest westerns I've ever read.



Anyone else interested in chipping in with their fav lesser known stories by Harlan?

Harlan: Who do you like in the Worlds Series this year?

Anticipation builds here in the Commonwealth as our beloved Sox are closing in on the wildcard spot. A win tonight gets them in and they are already up 4-0 over the Oriels.

Scott, my friend: you've made you position quite clear and I understand where you're coming from. However, I still can't understand throwing your lot into a political party that, at best, will never rope in more than 0.34 of the population. How can you bring about change with those numbers?

Frank: "If Hollywood was liberal then all their movies would be arthouse films, or close to it; not implying that lefties only like elitist stuff." But you are implying a gawdawful stereotype about us lefties. to say nothing of the smoking. Jaysis.

David: It was not I who wished for the Harlan Ellison boxed-set; I'm just hoping for more railroad songs in the next CD. And my line about porno being dead refers more to the normalization of porn. I mean, when us Hacks of Academe take our spindly scalpels to some movement in the popular culture, rest assured that movement has long since expired.

Andrew R: Although we thought about taking a trip to San diego, it looks like we will be spending all our time in and around L.A.

Noah: Many thanks for the weblink.

Sox up 7-0 in the second. Homahs by Varitek and NOMAH!

Later,
Walshy

Rob, don't forget, Kelsey Grammer, Bo Derek, Dennis Miller, Jay Leno, Will Smith, Patricia Heaton, Dennis Leary, Ben Stein, Jennifer O'neil, Mel Gibson, Jane Russell, Bob Hope (they loved this guy, and rightly so), Dyan Cannon...Should I go on, Stan??

What a maroon.

-------------

If Hollywood was liberal then all their movies would be arthouse films, or close to it; not implying that lefties only like elitist stuff. Do you think any self serving liberal would allow Adam Sandler to spawn?

And look at how lowbrow and politically incorrect most Hollywood films are. You even see smoking still in most modern movies; and you know how us lefties hate smoking.

And if you notice political films are a no no. When was the last time a hardline left leaning film out there? Bowling For Columbine doesn't count.

Oliver Stone has a hard time getting his films made, because of the content issue. Would a real liberal place censor the head master of lefty film direction? I think not.

But why even go on. Stan probably aint that good of a writer, and blames it on Hollyweird. Dare you to show parts of your work in this forum Stan. Let us critique it for you. We will not bite you in two. Wink.

--------------

"Equal opportunity means everyone will have a fair chance at being incompetent."

--Lawrence J. Peter

hincty gardyloo
I apologize if someone else has already linked this.

http://www.locusmag.com/2003/Features/09_Clarion.html

Anyway. Here you go.

Stan,

These are among the biggest names controlling the material you see on the screens today (whether the flicks are good or bad):

Obviously Schwarzenegger
Bruce Willis
Sylvester Stallone
Chuck Norris
John Milius
Travolta
Jean-Claude Van Damme
Eastwood
Rob Lowe (who did a porno in his early days)
and so on.

ALL good Republicans, Stan. Many of these guys - not all - simply go where the buck leads them. In ANY case, they project, often amorally, solid visceral, cut-throat, blood-spurtin' violence. Four of these guys are Hollywood's biggest money-makers. Given their power where's all that G-rated stuff you were telling us about? The studio execs don't look for G-rated material; they look for these big names.

Willis, Schwarzenegger, and Mel Gibson have all made extraordinarily violent and amoral movies. Yet, Liberal Spielberg has probably produced more family entertainment - even though I thrash him for his condescensions - than all the conservatives in Hollywood combined. In spite of his colossal success his approach hasn't toned down the blood-n'-guts sledgehammer your Right Wing friends perpetuate.

I know reality is pretty much out of your grasp, Stan, but Hollywood Conservatives perpetuate mindless violence more than any other contingent.

Steve Reeston,

I have some comments about Libertarian politics and an intriguing inherent irony about it, but I'll have to crank 'em out later.

Two things. teh first is that there's a nice discussion of neil Gaiman at Salon today. www.salon.com.

Now for Stan B, who writes, "Ok. I give up. I yield to the master of bullshit. But again...if the ultra right is running Hollywood, then there ought to be more G rated films being produced. Not the case....maybe you are right about who runs the joint...I really don't care anymore."

Methinks Stan B. was unduly impressed by a similar argument made by critic Michael Medved, whose book _Hollywood versus America_ claimed that the industry was hopelessly out of step with mainstream America, and ought to be producing more G-rated content, and its output of ugly, anti-American films indicated the deep soul-sickness of the industry.

The book was a thin tissue of horseshit, with severe misrepresentations of fact, distortions of the films discussed, and merely served to prove that Michael Medved was a dishonest creep with a severe authoritarian streak. Read my review of the book at http://www.briansiano.com/ (click on the"Michael Medved Drowns by Numbers" link on the side).

Neal Stephenson
Brian,
I caught your mention of Neal Stephenson. I'm a fan of his work as well, and thought you'd like to know he's going to be in your neck of the woods next week:

Philadelphia, The Penn Bookstore (3601 Walnut St.)
Sat 4 Oct 2003, 2 p.m.: Neal Stephenson (Quicksilver) reads and signs.

I'll be catching him on Oct. 2nd in Ann Arbor.

Regards,
Dan

Stan B. argued:

> if the ultra right is running Hollywood, then there
> ought to be more G rated films being produced. Not the
> case....

That's hilarious. You actually think moguls care more about moral content than making money? Who was it, Senator Phil Gramm, who was shown a few years ago to have invested some money in an operation that was making porn films?

I read a book by an American journalist (female) who described how her Arab sheik hosts entertained by breaking out the hard liquor and screening porn. There are a lot of folks out there whose modus operandi is "do as we say, not as we do."

Cindy,

Did I read you right...you got hit with a stray bullet? Just what kind of shot were you going for? Criminy. Don't do that again, young lady.

Hoping you already knew that and you heal quickly,
Chuck

Thanks
Hi Harlan, thank you for your advice. I shall endevour to sacrifice a small furry mammal in your honor. Entrails interpreation is extra.

We shall see how this film goes, on the final day of shooting I'm booked to do a Q&A with Stephen Frears at a Liverpool cinema. So will concentrate on the positive in this situation. Ugh, humbug.

FAQ

IF YOU SAY SO...HARLAN!
Ok. I give up. I yield to the master of bullshit. But again...if the ultra right is running Hollywood, then there ought to be more G rated films being produced. Not the case....maybe you are right about who runs the joint...I really don't care anymore. I write and submit what I like to write and submit. It may never get read...published...or even produced, but like taking the next fix from heroin....I am addicted to slaving over a blank screen and only death will ever relieve me of the addiction.
You got in when the transition was being made between the old Hollywood fat cats to the non-creative bureaucratic bottom-of- the line bookkeepers who know nothing of plot or theme, but boy they know how much money is gonna go into making that film!
I am less conservative than you think...I still am a staunch holder of Freedom of Speech...even if I dislike what is said or written or whatever...but there I guess my liberalness ends.
I still regard you with high favor and respect, when it comes to your writing, both past and present...and I still think those Hollywood elitists who run the factories, passed up millions by not producing your work, the way you wanted it presented. So there!

Sincerely,

Stan B.

"The serpent approves
Then appears between Adam's thighs
And he tries 2 release upon Eve the nectar
The injector tries
He tries, he tries, he tries"

--Prince

Not trying to pick fights with you Scott, but. . .

Dear Scott,

I refuse to believe that the ancient Romans could have libraries and we Americans can't. I also refuse to believe that most of the first world can provide healthcare and we can't.

Reagan's marvelous idea of deficit-spending (still with us)required the nation to incinerate its schools, libraries, social welfare nets and free health services. It's a living hell of privatization that they want to hurl us into. It's a world where the elite get to expand their privileges while the rest of us suffer. Every time they give you a tax cut couched in some libertarian euphemisms, they are merely expanding their profits, and that's all.

Why doesn't anybody say that President George Bush has been doing a really great job at RAISING state taxes, for that is all his federal tax cuts are doing. And if Paul Krugman is to be believed, the Neocons' ten year tax cut plan, if it is fully carried forth, will destroy our roads, our public works, our libraries--EVERYTHING. This is madness.

It's not Lyndon Johnson's war on poverty that's killing us. It's Star Wars defense systems, stealth bombers and fruitless and meaningless wars with everone we can find for fifty years.

Garsh! Libertarian-Schmibertarian!

Steve Dooner

(To my friend Mark Walsh, I'll just Say I've got your back!)

For you Italophiles, Trey Ellis' pseudonym on The Inkwell was Tom Ricostronza.

Jews are the true comic-book heroes
Interesting article with the above title in todays Chicago Sun-Times. Read and discuss.

http://www.suntimes.com/output/books/cst-ftr-comics24.html

Of Shit, Writing and Larger Matters...

Brian: Might I suggest a french tack, say Antoine Merde or Auguste Poubelle? Or, if one wishes to sound pretentious, Eponymous Stoole?

As to Shrub, I am frightened at the admission that I largely agree with you, pausing only to point out that, if we were to elect Baby Shrub to get the collective genius of the bright minds that surrounded him, why not cut out the middle-idiot, and vote directly for them? Isn't the keynote premise of democracy the direct accountability of leadership to the people?

Mark: You may call me friend, but consider your decision wisely. Many have lived to regret this choice. But, don't take my word for it, ask about here. You'll find my name seems to bracket nicely with interspersed profanities.

As for selfishness in my politic, perception leaves me to differ. I look upon what all three parties have wrought upon our province over the span of the last seventeen years:

Increasing alarm at the rising cost of health care, and an inscreasing dysfunctional public system leaving more and more Ontarians without even the access to a family physician. At the same time all three parties have taken no significant action to fix the problems, while spending millions to find out what the concerns are. My response: pay for private health care coverage for me and my family, in order to assure that we will receive quality and immediate care. My plan even allows us to go to the US, knowing that here in my home province the length of waiting lists for treatment of some forms or serious illness are just growing longer.

The post-secondary education system (colleges and universities) has been squeezed virtually beyond recognition, with a combination of underfunding (all three parties have failed to address the need for expanded campuses, and rising tuition fees), and lack of effort to address the need for a revamped OSAP (student loans) funding system. That says nothing about the elementary and secondary school system in our province, which in its own have problems in levels of funding, classroom size, and quality of educational curriculum, brought about by changes of ideology, and internecine wars between the government, school boards and teacher's unions. My response: First, I pay for my children to be privately educated, myself and Mel feeling that our little ones are getting much more attention and education in a smaller, more intimate classroom, which allows for more one-on-one mentoring between teacher and student. I've been saving furiously for my three kids education, taking out extra RRSPS and RESPS in order to assure that all three will be able to attend a PRIVATE university, preferably in the States.

No real control or concern over debt, versus the old political runaround of dealing with deficit. We are at a point in Ontario where we spend 16 cents out of every tax dollar to service debt through interest payments, but no party has stepped forward with a plan to deal with the elephant in the room. Even more, responsible action taken against controlling debt would free up those monies saved in lowering of interest payments, resources which could be brought to bear against my previously mentioned concerns, and the myriad other needs of our society, both short and long term.

That's it in a nutshell, Mark. I'm having to fork over my money to private companies for the things that I'd like for the public system to do; even more, I'm still paying my fucking taxes for the public system. On top of that, in a so-called free society, I get criticized for first displaying the decay of the systems being maintained, and called elitist or greedy for wanting things to be done right, especially when it comes to my family, and demanding the choice to do so even if that means removing my tax dollars to pay my own way.

That's why I'm a libertarian. I've had a lifetime of hearing the politcos cry "vote for me, and I'll set you free", and then watch as the slow erosion of ideology, bureaucracy, union and political self interest wear down the effectiveness of our social systems. By the way, how's your water? I want the choice to opt out.

Scott

FAISAL:

Notwithstanding "Cordwainer Bird" (do as I suggest, not necessarily as I have done), I would play it somewhat straight. "Coprophage" or anything else openly insulting may (MAY, not WILL ASSUREDLY, but only MAY) come back to bite you later. "Richard Dover" is fine. I'd go with something that sounds real, however subtle the disrespect sub-tone may be.

Never forget: these are petty people. They hold petty grudges to the grave.

As for "what you can do" or "getting your script back on turnaround or some legal breach," well, there's no way anyone (myself included) can properly advise you, not having seen your contract, and not without a full knowledge of the situation. This is tricksy stuff, kiddo. With no disrespect, I suggest you not pay any attention to what other Webderlanders will offer as solutions: they don't have all the information, so they're proffering blue-sky solutions. They may mean well, but that won't count for much if they half-informedly steer you into deeper water. Either get yourself an attorney, or an agent, and work with him/her on devising an exit strategy...or pore over your contract to see where you can find a "just reason" for taking some creative control...or getting out of the situation entirely.

I'd offer more salient advice, but the warning about ignoring the suggestions of the partially-informed goes for me, too.

One would hope you'd built such fallback protections into the original deal. If you didn't, you'll have a tougher road to go, but it CAN be done. Find a knowledgeable assist on this, Faisal. Somebody in The Business who knows what's what. Do not leave it to amateurs. Good luck.

Harlan

The Soft and Waxy Side of Life
Y'know - and this is particularly for the gourmands here - the Turks use ambergris in their COOKING. Damn savages.

We're not just talkin' shit here. We're talkin' dyspepsia. A lot like our fast food, now that I think about it. If I haveta eat shit, I at least want quality.

Amergris
Hell, that makes it an even BETTER name!

HE NAMED HIMSELF AFTER WHALE SHIT. OR PUKE. MOST AUTHORITIES SAY SHIT, BUT A LOT OF PEOPLE SAY PUKE, TOO. COULD BE SHIT, COULD BE PUKE!

Hmmm, that would make a great headline too:
COULD BE SHIT
Could be Puke
Fred Ambergris, Washington Post

HOLLYWOOD, CA - Experts are divided over whether....

FAISAL: Garbon Smuckwit, Oglvie Flummage, Boots Mungis.

Ambergris
Many authorities state that ambergris is found in sperm whale shit rather than sperm whale puke. (See URL below.) Since it is apparently formed in the whale’s intestines, shit seems the more likely candidate. Obviously, more research is needed to confirm this point.

http://www.susanscott.net/OceanWatch2003/jul25-03.html

Coupla things. When I was talking to Faisal, I said that the pseudonym I wanted to use-- if I ever got into a "Cordwainer Bird" situation a la Harlan-- was "David Ambergris." Ambergris, as you may or may not know, is whale puke. It's extremely aromatic, and used in perfumes, and I learned about it from an Encyclopedia Brown short story.

So I suggested names along those lines: David Ambergris, Bob Coprophage. "Chip Hitler" was one that probably wouldn't get past the ever-vigilant producer. There may be a chance with "Muffy Diverse." And I just thought of "Ashley Kerr," which has the merits of sounding veddy-veddy British, and is nicely homonymic of "ass-licker."

Just got Neil Stephenson's book _Quicksilver_, so between that and Neil Gaiman's _1602_, I'll be wallowing in the 17th century for a while. (He seems to be paralleling Thomas Pynchon; _Cryptonomicon_ bounced off of WWII a la _Gravity's Rainbow_, and this one's time frame has echoes of _Mason and Dixon_.) I was wondering how long Stephenson could sustain his own jokey style until he dropped a really obvious anachronism, and I think he got about six pages before he had a character refer to "Isaac Newton's Shit List." Not much of a problem: I'm not expecting Stephenson to be Patrick O'Brian. But god-DAMN it, I wish I could write like he can.

(On the other hand, James Ellroy works really hard to get his historical "feel" right... so, it was really surprising to see him make a minor slip on _The Cold Six Thousand_. He has J. Edgar Hoover refer to proceeding "at warp speed" in a memo dated 1964 or 1965, about a year before _Star Trek_ introduced the phrase.)

Okay, as for Cindy's notions that Bush is the "new sheriff in town." Come on, Cyn. The guy's a pantywaist, a vicious, craven little bully who wouldn't have made dog catcher if his family wasn't part of Big Oil. And if you wish to fault his advisors, well, what does that say about the man himself? Either he chose them, or he fails to have the backbone to fire'em.

But I think it's obvious that Bush simply cannot govern honestly. He runs on a campaign to restore schools and help families... and cuts funding to them when they need it the most. He urges a massive tax cut... just when he's plunged the country into a foreign occupation that'll cost billions. One could blame this on Bush's alleged lack of intelligence... but I think that's
based on liberal elitist mythology. Bush isn't dumb-- he is a craven, greedy, authoritarian creep who mouths platitudes to gain power. He doesn't need bribes when he can direct state policy for his own benefit.

catching up

Hey, if Harlan calls me a "nuhdj," is that worthy of a smokin' E? Probably not. And I left my Smokin' E coffee mugs at home, unfortunately. After my Barnes & Noble at Boston University bookstore gig last night (which went well, we sailed for an hour and 20 minutes, lots of good questions), the events planner gave me a BU mug, T-shirt, canvas bookstore carry bag, a Godiva chocolate bar, and -- get this -- an official "B&N at BU Post Signing Stress Reliever" (rubber squeeze thingie labeled thusly). Very charming!

Mark Walsh longs for a multi-boxed set of "On the Road with Ellison," sort of like the fantasy I expressed several years ago in my review of volume 1 in the audio wing of Mike Zuzel's Islets of Langerhans site. At first I'm inclined to express doubt that such a thing would be cost-effective . . . but it seems to me that the relatively small audience that would buy ONE disc of Ellison sounding off would be not much diminished by the price tag on a multi-boxed set. It's a smaller market than that for Britney, certainly, but a loyal and ardent one.

I think what we need to do (it's been nearly two decades since volume one came out, remember . . . and what's this "we" business? I'm just a lowly consumer; what Shag Records should consider doing) is turn out volume two, see how well it sells -- and here's where the "we" comes in; Webderlanders should beat the drums for the thing to get it to as much of its potential audience as possible -- and if it does well enough to make a multi-box set feasible, do the thing THEN . . . with the first two disc reissued along with two or five or eight new ones.

Brian Siano was the first person on the planet to notice my guest appearance in Dan Savage's column, even before me (though I knew it was coming sometime, of course). I approached Savage about mentioning my book in his column probably back in April or so, and didn't hear from him for a while (turned out he was in Vegas for the adult video awards). But when he responded, he said: I get letters about porn all the time -- why don't you do a guest column? Great! I thought.

To be perfectly honest, I wasn't that familiar with his writing at that point; had just run across the column in the Portland Mercury a few times, heard about his books and tours. Once I had written my responses to the sample letters he emailed me and returned them, I read his books. Oh my god, I thought; I haven't written anything good enough (read: sharp-tongued and entertaining) to be in his column. I LOVED his books, especially _The Kid: What Happened After My Boyfriend and I Decided To Go Get Pregnant (an adoption story)_. Now I appreciated what an honor it was he had seemingly so casually bestowed upon me.

I tried to rework and resubmit my answers, but couldn't think of anything much to do with them. Guess I'm still a Recovering NiceGuy(tm). Since I couldn't approximate his style, I'm tickled that he chose to portray us as a good cop-bad cop duo in this week's column.

Mark Walsh asked a more serious question: Does this mean porno is dead? Not sure whether you mean it may be diminishing in appeal and therefore business, or that its fearsome social reputation has been tamed (I realize there's a connection, but these are still two somewhat distinct facets). Short answer: no. I've had not a few reviews that pretend there's nothing new or shocking in my book, "I knew it all along," it's ten or 15 years late, why bother to write it? etc., etc.

Unfortunately, the folks who offer such opinions are, like those libertarians someone else complained about here recently, failing to look at the bigger picture. They're responding to their own little circle of way cool friends, who read their stuff approvingly, and all agree . . . and they don't acknowledge the existence of another United States out there, full of people who still regard pornography as dangerous, evil, satanic, toxic. Every year, small Christian publishers issue memoirs by wives who talk about how pornography ruined their marriage or their family, although usually they managed to pull through and succeed with the help of prayer, God, counseling, etc. Somebody must be eating this up.

And the books of Schlafly and Wildmon use radical feminist terminology to describe porn. They cite brain research in the most outlandish and tenuous manner to delineate porn's supposed detrimental effects on the very neurons of our minds.

Worse, people of like mind are in powerful positions in our federal government and will be doing what they can to shut down and control porn as governments almost invariably have in the past. (Or maybe they just cynically know they can rouse the electorate and distract them from more substantive problems and threats, but personally don't find porn a terrible thing, which is even worse, in a way.) They use the bogeyman of porn to play on our personal fears and insecurities and get us to agree to their legislative agendas, somewhat the same way they've pushed our fear and insecurity buttons about terrorism to foster consensus and support for foreign adventures that, to my eye anyway, are not only unjustified but just possibly counterproductive.

I don't know whether you could say it's a good thing for porn or a bad thing that such attitudes and enemies continue to thrive, because of course they threaten the civil liberties of all of us, but on the other hand (like Bill O'Reilly's fabulous unintentional campaign to make Al Franken's book a number one bestseller) they continue to artificially inflate the morbid fascination of the populace with a form of entertainment that is largely unimaginative, tasteless, one-dimensional, and cheap . . . though it has its simple and occasionally illuminating pleasures.

(And, DAMN, I can't wait to put this project firmly behind me and get to work writing on something else entirely!)

Good ones, Chuck :)

FAQ I don't think "coprophage" is going to get by them. I think my vote is for Richard Dover. Takes a few more steps to get there.

FAISAL: Don't think I can touch Brian's suggestion, but how about Cordwainer's Italian cousin Fillippi di Bird?
(just make sure the name on the CHECK is right!)
And are their any WGA-like organizations on your side of the pond who might offer any advice or support?

CINDY: You know, "dying for one's art" IS NOT FRIGGIN' MEANT TO BE TAKEN LITERALLY!!!
(And in regard to character, we will continue to disagree: Your view of pols' intentions and hearts is FAR more rosy-colored than mine.)

But--"he's not bright enough to be a convincing actor"? Well, fuck me; and here I thought I was perfectly within sanity's bounds to want an INTELLIGENT person at the reins ...

Alex Jay,
You KNOW I would not purposefully overlook your remark. I've been scrambling to get a short film done for Stephen King's American Gunslinger competition. Today I finished shooting but got hit by a richocheted bullet in the ribs. Burned like fire and felt like I'd been frogged by Andre the Giant. By tomorrow I ought to have quite the bruise and it still hurts to breathe or (God forbid, laugh)but it could have been worse.The BEST part i GOT THE SHOT!!!!! I hollered-- to be certain-- you can hear it simultaneously with the second round fired.... but I never stopped filming-- so I got it!

Meantime I'll start editing tomorrow I have to have it out by the first of October. Crossed fingers, chants, voodoo icons and prayers are appreciated-- I'd really like to win this one.

Now I will respond to what you wrote.

You're right about what we should do and if I were president they'd all be screaming about the deficit spending because I would HUNT every bastard that brutalized innocent people. I'd hunt them down like dogs and I'd see to it that they were put out of our misery. I believe there is only ONE sure cure for recidivism at this point. When life in prison can be LIFE IN PRISON I'll opt for that. I think we owe the rest of humanity for the luxuries we take for granted. We should be the world's police if no one else will assume that responsibility. I still feel sickened with guilt that we turned away the St.Louis when those onboard were close enough to see the lights of Miami. Yes, I believe we should be our brother's keepers. I also believe that those to whom much has been given, much shall be required. We owe for what we have and we should go to the mattresses whenever and where ever people are living in fear for their lives and for those of their children.

I think we are in agreement on this issue, Alex Jay.

Yeah, there IS a new sheriff in town--I don't buy that he works for bribes. I feel that he is misled at times by his father's advisors. He's not a bad person-- pray for him to see things as they actually are and not as Halliburton would have him see them.

Meantime, I thank you for what you wrote. I always read what you write with care.. but sometimes my brain misfires and I miss the wave for necessary response.

Call me on the mat, darlin', I'll always answer you. Meantime the three Coronas have eased my burning, aching ribs but my mind is not NEARLY clear enough to be posting here.

Slipping out the back door...
:)
Cindy

Michael Chabon's Comments on Harlan
Harlan (and gang),

I'm sorry that it's taken me so long to mention this, but I thought you might find it interesting.

A couple of years ago, when my wife and I lived in lovely Sonoma, CA, Berkeley-based author Michael Chabon came to Reader's Books in Sonoma and did a reading from "The Amazing Adventures of Kavalier and Clay" (one of my favorite novels in years; I think it's a breathtaking book; it's the great American novel, and utterly deserving of the Pulitzer, IMO.) Anyway, after the reading, Chabon took some questions, and I asked him if he was familiar with your work, specifically some of your essays about growing up in the 1940s, loving comic books, and especially your story "One Life, Furnished in Early Poverty." I said that throughout my reading of "K&C", the book resonated with Harlan's tales of that period, and I thought, "Harlan's gotta love this book." Chabon confessed that he wasn't familiar with the specific essays and story that I had mentioned, but he seemed quite impressed that I likened his work to yours, said that he would review "One Life," and called you a "formidable talent." And yes, that's a direct quote.

Just thought you'd like to know.

-- Jon

(P.S. I first saw you in Springfield, MO on December 5th, 1975 -- I was 14 years old! -- and have somehow managed to run into you about every 5-10 years since, although I missed you in Phoenix (I'm now living in Sedona.) The last time I saw you was at the Booksmith Bookstore in San Francisco back in 1995 (or '96?), when you wrote "Keyboard" in the window, after Robin Williams threw you a curve with his "computer-centric" starting line.

...And folks, you haven't lived until you've seen a socially-inept geek (can't remember the guy's name) attempt to hand Harlan his camera and insist that Harlan take said geek's picture with ROBIN -- only to have Harlan flatly say, "no," and Robin Williams put his hand on the guy's shoulder and say, "No, son -- Lincoln FREED the slaves!"

An ONION book
In the process of hitting the link Brian provided I saw this which either slipped beneath my radar or got purchased by me last year and is already buried or mis-shelved. In either event, there is a reprint of the not too easy to find Onion interview

The Tenacity of the Cockroach: Conversations With Entertainment's Most Enduring Outsiders.

Paperback: 416 pages ; Publisher: Three Rivers Press; 1st edition (December 10, 2002)
ISBN: 0-609-80991-1

Amazon and Half.com have some decent prices on used copies.

- Barney Dannelke

The Name Game
FAQ,

Then there's: Welland Goode, Bashor Heddin and, of course, the famous Vietnamese screen writer, Phuc Hu.

Slinking off to the other place,
Chuck

P.S.: How 'bout THAT, Cynical Girl?

Sorry, but I hit send before finishing...

or just Richard Dover

Pseudonyms
FAQ,

Richard Edward Over

A suitable insulting pseudonym
OK,

Theres a script being produced of mine, which looks like it'll turn to shit. It's being produced under the Film Council Digital Short scheme. Now, failing me getting the rights back to the script, what's a suitable pseudonym I can use?

Brian suggested a couple the best one being Quentin Coprophage.

Anyone else got any ideas?

And a personal appeal to Harlan, what is the best route to go if I can't get my script back and they fuck it up?

BTW - I'm taking a bit of a risk posting up here, so keep this discrete amongst friends.

FAQ

Hey, David Loftus! Dan Savage cites your in his column a LOT this week! Even lists your website!

Way to GO, dude!

C'mon, Give it Up for David Loftus!

http://www.theonionavclub.com/3937/savage.html

Mark,

Just LA? Do you plan on heading further south?

-Andrew

Mark Walsh -

The best place to pose this question is www.chowhound.com. Go to the Los Angeles board. Many serious eaters who will direct you to the restaurants you are dreaming of.

I would be over-joyed if Ellison "On the Road" volume 2 was a multi-boxed set of entire lectures and performances. Imagine hours, not a mere hour, of vocalese Ellisonia!

Harlan: excellent news about Volume 2. I hope there's more singing...

David Loftus: Read the interview with you in last Thursday's Boston Phoenix. A nice piece on a subject that's near and dear to the paper's heart. I'm sure you have heard that some universities now offer courses in pornography as part of their cultural studies program. Does this mean that porno is dead?

Scott Reeston: Sorry, my friend (can I call you my friend?) - I can't buy into that Libertarianism. Too selfish for my liking. I have known quite a few libertarians and have read a bit of libertarian philosophy and really don't see one liberatarian who takes a look at the big picture. And while I am in agreement with you on the arrogance and out of control spending coming from certain government agencies, I still firmly believe that the government can provide same services more effectively than any private business could. Public libraries, public transportation and the highway system are some areas that come to mind. And I am also a firm beleiver in the state university system: having taught all over this great commonwealth I can tell you that the quality of education at UMass Amherst or Bridgewater State College is on par with anything that Harvard or Boston College has to offer. to lop off gov. programs such as these and leave the stewardship of our libraries, roads and schools to the market is flat out wrong. As Oliver Wendell Holmes said, "Taxes? I don't mind paying taxes; because when I pay my taxes I'm buying civilization." (Not entirely true these days, I know, but his sentiment still has meaning.)

Frank: I'm sure you must know about this (being a Chomsyhead an all) but have you seen the DVD version of "Manufacturing Consent"? It is first rate. And the footage of Chomsky's conversation with Michel Foucault is wonderful.

Bill: Thanks for the news on Moore. I just may take a spin down to my Alma Mater to check him out.

And finally,

Californians: My wife and I are planning a trip out to L.A. in January and I was wondering if all of you could be so kind and pass along some tips on tasty restaurants and cool places to visit. Any suggestions that you can give me would be greatly appreciated.

Best,
Walshy

The Libertarian ideals I share are european in form. European libertarianism believes that true liberty cannot happen without a sane economic system. Socialism has worked in Europe to a point, to insure that all people have access to basic human needs, and that these needs are rights under the Universal Declaration Of Human Rights; that America not surprisingly rejects the spirit of. Socialism is not top-down but bottom-up in form, which is more democratic. Capitalism is more authoritarian and in America is as close to actual fascism as possible.

American Libertarianism or Capitalist/libertarianism is a deviation of the term. Actual libertarianism is socialist. America likes to subvert a good idea and fuck it over. What else is new.

"To refer to the Soviet Union as socialist is an interesting case of doctrinal doublespeak. The Bolshevik coup of October 1917 placed state power in the hands of Lenin and Trotsky, who moved quickly to dismantle the incipient socialist institutions that had grown up during the popular revolution of the preceding months -- the factory councils, the Soviets, in fact any organ of popular control -- and to convert the workforce into what they called a "labor army" under the command of the leader. In any meaningful sense of the term "socialism," the Bolsheviks moved at once to destroy its existing elements. No socialist deviation has been permitted since."

--Noam Chomsky

Don't know if this has been mentioned yet...

The October 70th Anniversary issue of Esquire magazine has a special booklet insert of Frank Sinatra has Cold by Gay Talese.
It's pretty cool.

DAVID LOFTUS:

Here, you nuhdj, is "word" on ON THE ROAD WITH HARLAN, Volume 2:

Michael Reeves, the head of Deep Shag recordings came into town last week, he came by the manse, I gave him about 35 tapes (old and recent, both) and he took them away. He's now asssembling from that potpourri a volume two. Okay?

Harlan

on the fly

BOB SASSONE! : I came all the way out to Boston without your contact information -- no email address, no local phone, no nothing -- so if you want to get together while I'm in town, let me know. Send email to my temporary aol account: davidjloftus@aol.com, or my wife's account, carole424@aol.com, since we're in touch by phone every day. My Earthlink account is under attack by some bogus Microsoft spam which fills it to capacity every hour, no matter how fast I try to clear it!

Everybody else: I'm flying high on the East Coast, with some events falling through and other new ones coming on. If anyone wants to know when my radio and Web-broadcast interviews in NYC will be next week, send an email to me at the above addresses.

Thanks for your time. No word on "On the Road with Ellison" volume 2?

A bit of sadness: Gordon Jump, who was that great momument to good hearted befuddlement, Arthur Carlson on "WKRP in Cincinatti", has died. I'll never forget the expression on his character's face as they returned from the failed turkey promotion, or the fantastic bit where he screams "I've got a monkey on my foot!", after mistaking cocaine payola for foot powder. I think Jump was funnier than even he realized.

Stan:

Re: Clark, I'm not remiss in stating when I'm wrong. Unlike Baby Shrub.

But, there was a secondary point about Byrd, which I didn't want to make in tandem with the issue of racism, because, in my feeling, it would've trivialized the more heinous point made. Byrd was the product of the great Southern political machines that engineered control for the privileged few of the South, while keeping out many forms of socially progressive actions which would've ensured a more equitable way of life for many. Byrd is the unequalled Congressional King of Pork, having used patronage to guarantee his and his fellow travellers their collective careers. When I see the photo ops presenting him as "a man of the people", I sneer in disgust of knowing how often his votes were placed to benefit his handlers, rather than the people of his constituency, or the people of the US.

Brian: Libertarian = Me. Greedy? Not on your life. I am one of those who have earned their financial keep through hard work and want to keep more of it, especially from those who tax and spend with total disregard. I want my laws to respect my public rights of free expression, assembly and thought, and ownership of private property. I want government placed in the role of humble subservience to the public, rather than the current state of arrogance and lack of accountability often displayed by the so-called leaders of our nations. There are too many laws costing too much money to enforce, and I'm getting sick of sending people to Ottawa and Queen's Park to simply make more. Trust the will and self-reliance of people, rather than our nations creating a society of children by entitlements created by gutless politicans, maintaining government control of its people's lives from cradle to grave.

There, Soapbox put away. Rush out and join the Libertarians, kiddies. You know you want to...

Scott

>Micah Ian Wright, a former Ranger...

Well, there's some argument about that.

On the subject, though, I've always been curious about Harlan's Ranger days.

Harlan...?

And here I thought it was the Moops.

Swigging Vodka to Nostalgic Days of the Gulag
Brian,

"I now have a nasty little sore throat, and I kinda wish it'd tip over into an actual cold so's I can take time off of work."

Hey, Brian - where the hell is your work ethic, man? I mean I'm sitting here doing absolutely nothing, morgaging my future, but at least I'm not making excuses for it.

Actually, I'd like to see some of the Righties and self-proclaimed centrists here cite the definitions and technical differences between Communism and Socialism. What are their histories? Why did they appeal to people in the early 20th century? What's the difference between a Communist and a Commie?

Let's see how informed you really are. Or are we just a babbling ignorant mob?

(Fuck, I'm a grouchy bastard this morning! Even by MY standards.)

Thanks to the hurricane, I now have a nasty little sore throat, and I kinda wish it'd tip over into an actual cold so's I can take time off of work.

Kevin Wall expressed the following surprise when Frank Church described himself as a libertarian socialist, saying, "Those two stances are absolutely mutually exclusive!! Geez, Frank, do you know what you're talking about?? Or have you changed your mind and now realize Ayn Rand was much much more than a "brick and mortar fascist"?! ;)"

Actually, Kevin, it is you who may have to change your mind from these misleading conceptions of libertarians and socialism. The fact that free-market apologists call themselves "libertarians" is a recent development: classically, "libertarian" characterized a number of political and philosophical movements calling for minimal authority.

Also, the equation of "socialism" with state-run-everything is an outgrowth of Stalin. There has always been a non-Stalinist socialist tradition, mostly among anarchists like Rudolf Rocker and Peter Kropotkin. People who characterize themselves as "libertarian socialists" operate within this tradition. Noam Chomsky, for example.

Sadly, political discussion in the United States was crippled by the Cold War. The net result is that there are otherwise intelligent people who believe that socialism, labor unions, corporate regulation and criticism of capitalism are all of a piece with Stalin and the Gulag. In short, Kevin, Frank does know what he's talking about-- on this topic, at least.

Chuck it is not politically correct or culturally sensitive to say "moor". The preferred term in this case is African-Italian.

;)

Here's something that Californians, as well as the rest of us free speech advocates, should probably know about:

Micah Ian Wright, comics writer, just had an interesting run-in with the forces of the Arnold.

Wright, a former Ranger, has pretty much come out of nowhere with his radical revamp of the Stormwatch comic book, turning it into a web of political intrigue--and his own website is no less political: He takes old propaganda posters, old pulp covers, and the like, and remixes them to hilariously cutting comments on the current political climate.

Recently, he mixed up a "California Uber Alles" poster off of some old Thirties or Forties orange crate artwork. And, like most of his things, it's offered on the CafePress website for t-shirts and stuff. Or it WAS ...

He writes on his forum:

"YES!

Sometimes the little guy can win!

This morning at 3:30 am (don't ask what I was doing up... I was making comics for YOU PEOPLE), I received a letter from New Zealand(!) saying "hey, I wanted to buy an Arnold poster... why isn't it there?"

"Because you're freaking blind," I thought to myself. To reassure myself, I went to the site and found that yes, all of my "California Uber Alles" Merchandise with Jay Lender's brilliant mocking combination of Orange Crate Art & Propaganda had been removed!

Evidently, Cafe Press had received a complaint, NOT AN INJUNCTION, from someone in the Arnold Campaign, saying that the articles violated Arnold's "Right of Publicity" by using his likeness to sell products.

Now, if you've been following the "Ultimate Nick Fury" thread on this board, you'll know that I'm something of a Prison Lawyer on this subject, having been forced to learn all kinds of copyright law to do my political posters.

And if you know anything about me, you know I'm not the kind of guy who backs down without a fight.

I wrote Cafe Press and told them that they'd over-reacted and told them that pulling my products immediately without consulting me or even dropping me an email was Bad News. They said they'd look into it. A few hours later I got a call explaining the issue... Arnie's people didn't mind the TONS of other Cafe Press material saying "Arnold For Governor" but they did mind MY poster which they saw as insulting.

TOO FUCKING BAD.

I called Arnie's lawyers and said "sorry, it's political parody. The second your client ran for public office, he lost all publicity rights when dealing with aspects of his life as a public servant wannabe. Case law in America goes back to Boss Tweed versus Thomas Nast and guess who won that one and all others since? In light of Fox News versus Al Franken and the bad pres that Fox News received from that case, do you still want your candidate to mix it up with me in court? If so, in the immortal words of our idiot president, BRING IT ON."

They sorta swallowed and went "uh, okay. You're right. You can put it back up."

Hell Yeah, they did.

And now, an entire wasted workday later, all those products are back online for your perusal and purchase:

Arnold For World Ruler:
[WEBSITE URL REMOVED; WEBDERLAND ISN'T FOR PIMPING MERCHANDISE]

All of my profits from this poster now go to the ACLU. Go buy something and help Free Speech in America."

And John Peter Zenger smiles down ...

Thanks Scott

Scott,

I appreciate you yielding a little on the point about Clark's career. He obviously had a fairly good military career as military careers go. But I have to say again that I am NOT a Clark supporter. I presently favor Kucinich and Dean.

I will yield on Robert Byrd, whose racism still seems to pop up (as recently as 2001) and whose Civil Rights record has been middling to poor at best. However, I will add only that Byrd's KKK past seems to only hit the presses when he says something that seems liberal. The right doesn't point out his work as a Kleagle for the KKK when he's voting agaiinst gay marriage or taking what would be considered a KKK position on something. Byrd also apologized for his racist past, saying it was his biggest mistake, and he has made some decisions in the Senate that old Strom would never have countenanced. (When Strom was asked in 1998, he said he had absolutely no regrets about his segregationist past).

You may be right about Byrd(you can take the boy out of the KKK, but you can't. . .etc). But at least Byrd was correct when he said the WMD's affair was another Gulf of Tonkin.

Steve Dooner

Anybody know David Silver? And what's a socialist/libertarian?!

Frank Church wrote: "I myself believe in a socialist/libertarian model." Say what?! Those two stances are absolutely mutually exclusive!! Geez, Frank, do you know what you're talking about?? Or have you changed your mind and now realize Ayn Rand was much much more than a "brick and mortar fascist"?! ;)

General question for the whole group. Anybody familiar with David Silver in the San Francisco area? I had an opportunity to sit through a couple of his writing workshops in the late 1980's when I was living and schooling in the City. Frigging amazing man, knew how to turn people into writers, no bull pucky!! He pratically beat the participants into submission and I was blown away by the percentage that actually went on to sell!! Now THAT'S something you'll never see in creative writing classes and other workshops!! I was only able to hang for one summer, but it was during that time that he introduced me (and about 20 other people in that group) to Harlan Ellison's writing. He actually introduced us to all sorts of incredible authors, but Ellison was the one who stood out in my mind. At one point David played a tape from the 1978 Worldcon where Ellison describes having a story sent back by the editor of PLAYBOY because she felt there was something deeper there that he was not willing to handle. Tough stuff, and then Ellison goes on to read the finished story out loud! Anyway, David was a motivating force second only to Ellsion himself I would think, and I was wondering if anybody in the group, Harlan included, had dealt with him. I was aware that he was still running workshops through the 1990's, but I haven't heard about him this century. If he's still out there somewhere, I wish there was a way we could get him into this forum.

Ah Frank,

You wrote," You do know Kucinich is a socialist?"

Nopers. I did NOT know that Kucinich is a socialist, but " a rose by any other name WOULD smell as sweet". In fact, I don't care what flag he travels under. His ideas were steeped in common sense and he had the hair to scamper out on a limb and air them while all about him were reciting platitudes. He gets massive points for that in my book.

Now tell me-- because I missed that day at school; what makes a socialist a socialist and why would a socialist wish to run as a Democrat? Other than the obvious reason that the word
" socialist" seems only a hop skip and lunge from "commie"?


As for my goony nuzzling of W....
Hmmmmm, I'll tell you this; I've watched him for years here in Texas as Governor. His heart is in the right place, he chokes up when he is faced with human suffering or loss. Lest you doubt, remember this; he's not the idiot some paint him to be-- but neither is he bright enough to be that convincing of an actor.

Yes, Frank, you have managed to rub off on me a bit. Y'all have ALL rubbed off on me some. There are things I think are correct now that might not have made sense to me before-- the removal of the ten commandments sculpture in Alabama for instance. I have a fuller understanding of many thing since I tumbled down this cozy rabbit hole.


Moderately,
just to the right of the middle,

:)

Cindy

Hey Scott!
How ya doin'? Hello to your bride from me.
I agree with your assessment of Byrd. That much hate and ignorance laced into a mind that narrow render him (short of a miracle) useless at best.

Cindy

Re Clark: I wasn't thrilled with his announcement for several reasons. Part of it was due to the use of bombing against civilian targets in Kosovo-- gives me sort of a bad taste about the guy. The guy was a Republican until recently, when Karl Rove denied him a spot on Bush's cabinet, so there's Strike 2. Third, the guy just seems _too_ much like the groomed leader. I expect people like that to go to pieces when things turn really horrible.

But what bugs me the most is that it's fairly obvious that the DLC must have given this guy a _lot_ of reason (okay, cash) to run for President. Their own candidate, Joe Leiberman, isn't doing too well against the Dean campaign, so it was only a matter of time before the DLCers cast around for a really strong candidate.

But the imperative now is just to _get rid of George Bush_, to vote him the fuck out of office before he does much more damage. In fact, I'd suggest that the Democratc play up Clark's war record: "Yes, he's a war criminal. But that just shows how bad Bush is. We are willing to vote for a _war criminal_ over George Bush. That's how bad a President he's been."

So we have Kucinich, with good ideals and a decent record, getting swamped by the celebrity candidates. We have Dean, seizing the anti-Bush and anti-DLC stuff somewhat opportunistically. And now we have Clark, the paid-for golden boy of the DLC. I guess I'll probably vote for whichever gets the nod.

Funny.

Yes, you would not want to get Michael Moore with Mike "Iago" Moor. Very dark, brooding character. I hear he's the jealous type.

MOORE!!! DAMN MY TYPOS LATELY!!!

B.G.

djhfdhf

Okay, those of you in the southeastern Massachusetts area (also known as the South Coast): Michael Moor will be speaking at the University of Massachusetts Dartmouth (aka UMass Dartmouth) on 9 October 2003 at 8 PM. Doors open at 7 PM. Tickets available to the general public on 29 September 2003, $10. www.umassd.edu is the website for the school and will give you phone numbers and stuff for anyone who's interested. I'm sure they'll be posting the info soon, too.

This is not a paid ad, I stole one of the flyers from a bulletin board simply because "m'friends at Webderland will wanna know about this!"

Take care,
Bill

Clark Barred...Me Likey Duane Almond Joy!

Sorry, Steve, just a hello to FrankenChomsky...

Steve:

Clark didn't head up NATO, just its military command. NATO is divided into two branches; civilian and military, with the civilian branch of administration setting policy and political directives which are then carried out by the military branch when necessary. The civilian body is always headed up by a European (by treaty agreement), under the title of Secretary-General, and all decisions to act politically or militarily much be enacted by unanimous vote by all member nations. The military branch is subdivided into three branches: Allied Command Atlantic, Allied Command Channel, and Allied Command Europe. Clark was Supreme Commander-In-Chief, Allied Command Europe, serving from 1997 - 2000. In short, he wasn't the decision maker in prosecution of the bombing of Kosovo, but did command the forces responsible. He also served as the military representative in the Bosnian peace accords.

Yes, I've read the sheet on his past career:

http://www.nato.int/cv/saceur/clark.htm

and must apologize to you based on the merits of the man himself. Well decorated, (Silver, Bronze Stars and Purple Hearts don't grow on trees) and a solid mitiary career are clearly evident, but that doesn't change my tune about his stature as a military man not necessarily making him an ideal candidate for public office. One need only look at the Eisenhower administration to understand that military competence doesn't translate into political skill, or competent civilian leadership. This is essentially my problem with Clark's candidacy. You profess his credibility as a liberal Democrat, but, based on what I've learned about the man, his statements at his website and his candidacy announcement, I'm not buying it. Truth to tell, his policy satement leaves me with the impression of a return to the days of Clinton; a Democrat is name only, with the notable exception that Clark seems able to keep his hands off the help.

I got a look at his website, and didn't find much by way of substantive information considering education policy, or alleviating the burden of the nearly 50 million Americans who are bereft of health care coverage, he talks about "the nearly 5 trillion dollar debt" with scant mention of how all of this will be dealt with. "The 100 Year Plan", (pretty ambitious for a man who could only hold the office of President for eight years) -- http://www.clark04.com/vision.php -- is the usual hodgepodge of center-left initiatives, all generalities which are meant to soothe liberal nerves while not making moderate Republicans uncomfortable at his presence. He talks about the generalities of expansive programs the nation needs to build in order to progress, but not a word on how it all gets paid for. Even more, there is the nod to fiscal responsibility, suggesting budget accountability to the taxpayers can be achieved at the same time as his programs will likely increase federal spending, therefore driving up debt. (Understand, Steve, I'm a libertarian, but one who will accept taxes and spending when the accounting is honest, the politicians only spend what they're given by the people, and on those things the public demands.) As I've seen from your post and Michael Moore's desperation, are you sure you're supporting Clark more as a buttress against the idiocy known as the Baby Shrub administration, rather than as a candidate on his own merits? If that's the case, you'll likely to end up with government that even worse than Shrub Jr. Caveat emptor, especially with your tax dollars and the War on Terror.

As for me, I'm coming to the opinion of Clark being another Republican running under the Democratic banner, with just enough social policy liberalism to disguise the fiscal conservatism he is likely to pursue. Okay, granted, the race is early, and there's still the primary season to get through. I want to see what happens to his candidacy to flesh itself out in New Hampshire and beyond, but I don't see anything that has impressed me yet. The wife hit it rather succinctly: Can anybody out there find a Democrat that would act like one?

As to Byrd, well, I'm not so forgiving. I've never met the man, so I cannot speak to his reformation. I guess I fall into the class of folks who say "once a racist, always a racist", and then walk away from the individual. As with Thurmond, I cannot respect Byrd, or could vote for him. But that's me, and others who can forgive, more power to them.

With that, I go back to the pressing issue of feces figures, and the cottage industry that can be run from its outhouse.

Why do shit and Christmas seem to go so well together, like PB & J?

Scott

Did our Cindy just compliment a socialist? You do know Kucinich is a socialist? Not saying that is a bad thing, since I myself believe in a socialist/libertarian model. I still think I am rubbing off Cindy. Your hubby won't even recognize you pretty soon.

But your goony nuzzling of the slimy Bush was puke embracing. Don't forget, America gave Saddam the money and chemicals for his kill gas. And liquid anthrax only lasts about three years before it is no good. Even if we find the cannisters, they could not have been used for weapons any way.

----------------

Walshy, Chomsky seems to find smear campaigns around every corner, so he would sympathize with bug eyed Wesley Clark. And now it seems, his anti-war stance is changing. Our savior will not be a politician--take that to the bank. Better to be an activist, and pull down this damn oligarchy around Bushes ears.

----------------

Pleaseeee, lord, someday, Mefisto in Onyx must be a movie--pleassse, by all that is holy and sane! Denzel would be good in the lead. How about Wesley Snipes?

And my fantasy director for it would be my boy Spielberg. Yea, that's right, SPIELBERG mufucka's!! Don't care about what you all say, this man is a genius.

-----------------

Michael Moore on Maher Friday. Red alert. Yeaaaaaa.

--------------------------

"The enemy is anybody who's going to get you killed, no matter which side he's on."

--Joseph Heller

Response to Scott Reeston


Dear Scott,

I have to say I would have more confidence in Clark, who managed NATO at a time when NATO was actually doing something, than I would in a desperately failed Texas governor who specialized in executions. I stand in contention with you only because I'm not sure what your idea of an auspicious military career would be? I imagine some sort of military chimaera who covered more ground than Napoleon while simultaneously writing War and Peace and holding the office of Pope.

Clearly, the "inauspiscious" miliatary career remark is just a crack you made because you simply want to find fault with Clark. It makes no sense. Yes, of course, the cold war was over and perhaps NATO was irrelevant, but at least Clark headed NATO and he seemed to do his job well. The European involvement in Kosovo was one of the only times in NATO's history that they were called upon to do exactly what NATO was chartered to do, and Clark oversaw it.

Should Clark have been head of NATO? Should we strengthen the U.N.? Should NATO cease to exist now that the Cold War is over? These are all excellent questions that in no way speak to the merits of Clark's military experience. They are sublimely beside the point.

For many soldiers, being head of NATO would be the sort of thing you would normally point at to illustrate an auspiscious career. Today, Republicans are scared of Clark because he is an internationalist, and the international fiasco caused by Dubyah certainly makes me want to take a serious look at Clark.

Does he have a domestic agenda? Well, I think your point on this is entirely valid and worth considering. I should confess that I am not a Clark supporter. I proudly voted Green in the last election, but in this election, I shall support whichever Democrat they run against Dubyah. I must, however, disagree that Clark is an exact inversion of Dubyah Clark is more aware of foreign policy--I grant you, and Bush, as a cadidate and as a president, proudly asserts his ignorance of foreign countries while giving only the meerest indication that he has knowledge of domestic affairs. So I'm not sure it's right to say that Dubyah ever had anything as lofty as a domestic agenda or a foreign agenda.

As for the comment about generals not being able to be Democrats, or vice-versa, all I have to say is, OH COME ON! You've gotto be kidding right? The Democrats are so conservative today that they would hardly notice a hawkish voice as a contrast to their own. But I assume you meant to represent Democrats as peace-loving, sandal-wearing, flute-playing hippies with Joni Mitchell haircuts, and you're simply asking how a general, who must be conservative by virtue of his being a general, could possibly fit in with all those crazy liberals. Well, first of all, if the Democrats were that sort of party, I would join in a second. But, second, even though the party is somewhat more conservative party than I would wish, I find it interesting that Michael Moore, a sixties radical and conscientious objector, should write a letter to Clark asking him to run precisely because he is such a liberal Democrat. He is unapologetically liberal. He doesn't cower and run, as most Democrats do, at questions about healthcare or big oil, nor does he shrink from criticizing Bush or from opposing the war.

One last thought: though it might be funny to portary Robert Byrd as a ravenous, cross-buring KKK member, don't you think you're being just a touch unfair? As a youth, Byrd joined the KKK and wrote a letter on separation of the races that is repugnant and unacceptable. Unlike Strom Thurmond, though, Byrd completely repudiated his segregationist ideas and is deeply ashamed at his youthful stupidity. He did not take refuge in the Republican party, as Thurmond and the Dixiecrats did, so as to keep his morally unacceptable ideas either. No, he rejected those ideas and became one of the most liberal members of the Democratic party. He is outspoken on the topic of racism and segregation, and he would never have laughed at Trent Lott's little joke. Still, your average "Matt Drudge" or "Karl Rove" loves to bring up Byrd's KKK past precisely because it will keep people from listening to Byrd's cries for peace and because it will also help shut down the liberal agenda. That's a kind of character assasination that we Greens, Libertarians and Democrats should not accept. Do you agree?

Byrd was a racist who grew up. He changed, and he stayed a Democrat throughout the Civil Rights era. Many of us here are writers who believe that change is essential for fiction. Belief in hange may also be one of the most necessary ingredients of true humanism. Don't you believe there is such a thing as redemption, man?

Finally, I believe we probably more agree on things than disagree, Scott--our shared dislike of both parties is a good example of that. Please take this post as a respectful response and see anything abrasive in it as a lame attempt at humor. For the good of the country, I believe we all need to vote against Dubyah in the next election, and I seriously invite all you Libertarians to join up in the cause.

Steve Dooner
Atheist, Humanist, Green Party member (until the next election)

Stan - I seem to recall reading (damned if I recall where, though) that "Harlan Ellison's Dream Corridor" comic book was originally conceived as just what you suggest: a series in the vein of the Ray Bradbury Theater; but the project instead went the way of the graphical arts via Dark Horse comics.

Alex - Earlier today, BossAmy and I discussed my trip to NY for Sting's show at the Hammerstein Ballroom on October 4th; Offhandedly, I told her if she weren't busy with school and her classwork (she's going for her master's in Interior Design) I'd invite her along for the trip; she countered with "I'd be all over that." Uh. Yeah. Um. Huh. Oh, and the scars on my hands? They come from not having the sense to not play with fire...

As regards the mid-eighties incarnation of The Twilight Zone: I should convert my VHS tapes over to mini DV before they degrade further; between two different original broadcast sources, I've got about 95% of the first two seasons (including the three Ellison adaptations and the version of King's "Gramma" he scripted) with some duplication. I should get back to tracking down the Japanese laserdiscs. Of course, the moment I do, they'll pop out nice DVD boxed sets of the series...

And speaking of DVDs, the second season of the original Outer Limits is in stores, in case you missed it.

Voting and Poop
Hello all, sorry for prolonged absence (esp. on the other board where I'd promised to respond). Been a busy summer, spent mostly in Kuwait with a 2 week break jaunting around the UK one last time. Then the company pulled forward our move date so we're in a scramble, down to the final week of getting packed up for the desert.

Alex Jay - You sparked an interesting concept in my mind. What if you were allowed to cast your vote against a candidate as alternative to voting for a candidate?? A negative vote would cancel out a positive vote. There's been a few elections where that would have been my preference! The potential for voting out major party candidates could open the door for independents. Then again, it would raise negative campaigning to a whole new level.

Melissa, Dorie - they've been selling Moose Nugget jewelry and knick-knacks for *years* in Alaska. People WILL buy anything.

HE is mentioned in this humorous post at locus.com
http://locusmag.com/2003/Features/09_Clarion.html

Melissa, you jest, but the product does exist!! They are called Poo Pets, I kid you not, manure shaped into little animals. I believe you're supposed to put them in your garden as time-release fertilizer. Makes a real statement as a gift, don't you think?

Thanks to you and to Todd for the info on "One Life Furnished In Early Poverty". Sounds like I won't find it any time soon but at least I know what I'm looking for.

ROB:
Yeah--it looks as if there will be no Dean voters, Clark voters, Kerry voters, in next year's election. Every person casting a ballot will be Bush voters: votes will be cast either FOR him or AGAINST him.

CINDY:
"For every complex problem, there is a solution which is simple, neat, and wrong."
So said H.L. Mencken quite a few years ago--and though Mencken could be a total ass on some subjects, in this one, he was right.

"I wish we could do it for all who live under murdering tyrants."
Well, gee; why CAN'T we? After all, we are the last superpower; the heavyweight champeen of the Free World. Our might, we have decided, can make right--so what's to STOP us from going into East Timor, Eritrea, Myannmar, Tibet, the Sudan, Sri Lanka, North Korea, and so on, and so on, and so on?

Or have we decided that we shall only free those whose lands hold enough natural resources to make it worth our while? Will we dole out freedom to those who can pay? That's a shitty precedent to take.

Yeah, there's a new sheriff in town--but he only works for bribes.

DOUG:
Good to hear you came through the raging and blowing of those cataracts and hurricanoes all right.
(I'm near to saying that I only wish I had your boss-related problem--but I dunno if that sweet torture would be good.)

MELISSA:
So there's money to be made in coprolitic Christmas curios?

Hey, Finder!

Very good to hear. Myself and the husband often track weather, being rurally isolated, and have experienced our share of storms, although we'd never faced a true hurricane.

Up here, we're okay. Scotty has returned to work, and I've been throwing furiously, trying to eliminate my backlog. Then, I've got the Christmas rush coming. You'd be surprised at what folks will order, so long as it carries a festive theme. You could shape feces into the form of Santa and the elves, and folks will line up to buy it.

A caveat for those who want to try the alchemist trick of turning stool into gold: make sure that you put in a piece of paper informing them that it isn't chocolate, unless you want to explain the taste to the disgruntled buyer.

Take care, Melissa

Melissa - I'm alive and well - and was in one of the few areas in the Manassas area that didn't lose power (or water or phone) during the whole trek of isabel through Northern VA; I got very, very lucky (seeing as some are still allegedly without power tonight.)

I've just been juggling a big pile of stuff (a commercial contest submission, a little work on the never-ending novel, and trying to figure out how to avoid asking the boss (who is sweet and funny and such a great match) to run off with me. Typical stretch in the life. But I'm a-ok, thanks. Hope all is good with you and Scott!

Rob,
Don't be insultin' cattle goddamnit.

Cindy


THAT SAID....

I'm a conservative Republican. Y'all know it. Listening to the big debate of the Democratic contenders recently, one shining potential candidate caught my eye and captured my imagination. It was the gentleman from Ohio, Dennis Kucinich. He had a world of good ideas all couched in what SHOULD be common sense, including; putting a stop to NAFTA and GATT. He didn't shuck'n jive like the others; he sounded REASONABLE. He also sounded like a man who had come to do some good and who ACTUALLY had a fucking PLAN. Those comprising the remainder of the field were as uniform as a school of mackerel, without the shine. But when this fella Kucinich spoke up it wasn't the same old bullshit. I'm not sayin' that I know everything about the man or his politics, but I was impressed by what he said that night.

As for George W. I still say he has a sterling heart and intentions to match. I believe he's genuine-- but I don't think that is necessarily true of those who advise him. He hasn't had an easy go of it-- as Dennis Miller remarked, George W. has had one of the toughest hands dealt to a president since Kennedy and he's handled it.. period. Saddam needed to be taken out for the sake of the innocent people he brutalized. I don't care if there were no weapons of mass destruction ( although 5000 dead Kurds say there are). I don't care if Saddam had nothing to do with Al Queda or 9-11. I don't even give a rat's ass if we WERE there for the oil-- so long as that murderer was sent packing. I wish we could do it for all people who live under murdering tyrants.

But that's just me.

I'm weary to distraction of those who persist in trying to lay the unemployment numbers at the feet of George W. NAFTA and GATT were the death knell of American factory workers. I'd damn near bet that most who were displaced when big corporations took their manufacturing to nations where people work for 8 bucks a DAY rather than 28 dollars per hour are still featured prominently in current unemployment figures.

It isn't about us any more-- the politicians we have will do anything to get into office and worse; they'll do anything to stay there.

Cindy

Yeah...'If ONLY.'
An obiter dictum, picking up from where Harlan left off...

Months and months ago my tv was on as I was bustling around the place in a pathetic effort to neaten up this cluttered dump of mine. I heard a voice articulate economic and political issues with a smooth intelligence - a presidential candidate I hadn't heard prior. It was the first among the candidates who made me stop to listen. I didn't look up to see his face; I only heard what he had to say. It was a voice that seemed to filter out the stilted pandering bullshit I detected from everyone else. It made me want to find out his name. It turned out to be Howard Dean. I like the idea of having a doctor for president; I NEED a doctor.

The damn tragedy is he represents the far liberal position. The position I WISH could take control. But with the mass of grazing cattle out there among voters...I just don't believe Dean can prevail against Bush - unless half the country's population is completely displaced from jobs and homes by election time and we continue steering a miscalculated war on our own. The landscape would probably have to be much worse than is likely to be. Of course, you never know. But generally the centrist voice is the only one that can rout the right.

This is why the prospect of Dean's nomination has Republicans licking their primordial chops.

So...Dean's nomination has me worried. I'm quite guilty of compromising my vote, you see, by the better-of-two-evils principle. It's why Clinton prevailed in the early 90's. I've rarely voted for whom I really want. Since the Reagan era - the period I began voting, believing naively, like the jackanapes I was, that I could make a difference - I submitted to the bitter reality of the 'Practical' vote over the 'Ideal' vote. I voted my conscience and wound up no where. A feeling of frustration I never forgot. Compromise seemed the only panacea. This is why I wouldn't vote for Nader in the Gore race. Heaving a sigh, I sell out...because I want to increase my chances of living a better life by whatever margin possible; and everytime a Republican is running the show I find the waters to be rougher. Better to compromise than to deal with that. It's the sad reality of a Republic dominated by wealthy power-brokers.

It's a game that kinda sucks.br>

sTAN B.:

It's one thing, quite acceptable, to be "Conservative." It is quite another, unacceptable, to be that stripe of Conservative who, like Religious Fundamentalists (of any sect) who see Demons everywhere. To be paranoid and steeped in third-hand bullshit.

There is no "liberal bias" in Hollywood. The power reins are in the hands of the studio heads, who are as Conservative as even you would wish. I don't see, say, Jane Fonda running for Governor; no, it's the Conservative Schwarzennegger, as it was the ultraConservative actor George Murphy who was a senior California senator (do your homework, son), and the Teflon'd ultraConservative actor Ronald Reagan who was our Governor and then your President. Yeah, very liberal. Not.

There are, yes, Progressives here, but that's both necessary and laudatory. Are you suggesting that the commonweal is best served by having NO liberal/progressive opposition; that the reactionary cabal should have it all its own way? Thoreau is turning in his peat-moss. Yes, there are liberals here. But there are far more Conservatives, and they run things, and have done so both here and in this country since Eisenhower was elected. So kindly drop the psychotic bullshit mythology and veer a little closer to Actual Identifiable Reality, okay?

"Liberal bias." Geezus, if only.

Harlan

Steve:

I would've normally agreed with you, if the Soviet Union remained in existence as a threat to the North Atlantic Alliance, but, at the time of Clark's command, that just wasn't the case. The only bump in his administrative career with NATO was the oversight of the mission in Kosovo, one which was largely perfomed by the European members of the Alliance. Under NATO's rotational administration structure, the bombing in Kosovo would've been prosecuted by a European commander, except that it was the U.S.'s turn to fill the office. (Although, some experts have professed a belief that if it hadn't been a US commander in charge of the military section of NATO, the US would not have gotten involved in stopping the killing, and possibly even acted to head off any NATO involvement in toto.) And, the campaign was completely antiseptic, with no possibility of a ground conflict to make things messy for Alliance troops. Result, no Gulf War I style parades for what seemed to be a "point and click" conflict. Clark posed well for photo ops (some trick, standing upright) and spouted Bubba's rhetoric for defense of the ethnic Albanians, sounding hypocritical in light of the US and Europe's staunch stance in refusing to end the ethnic cleansing in Rwanda. Nothing new here.

Look, Steve, he's a general. Just how much of a Democrat will he be? And, what about the vacuum created when his total lack of understanding of domestic policy is brought to light?

I guess my problem is less about Clark and more about the existence of NATO. With no Warsaw Pact to joust with, I simply don't see the point of its continuance. Large Shrub once told you of a "peace dividend", but you still maintain a standing army of between 300,000 - 500,000 in Europe, not to mention numerous armor and aircraft divisions to protect against an enemy that doesn't exist.

Terrorism? Easy. Break up NATO, instead strengthen the use of the UN as a buffer to assist in humanitarian and peacekeeping duties throughout the world. Withdraw the standing army from Europe, and then press Canada and Mexico to form a stronger form of NORAD. Save money, and protect the US from Osama and the boys. I think the Europeans can take care of themselves by now.

Scott

The Echo of Harlan's Lines
Not because I have my Ellsion books placed directly over my computer monitor, not because I have a photo of Harlan taped to my file cabinet (right next to a photo of Neil Peart) but because of daily accurances in my own life that I find Harlan's thoughts echoing and reverberating within me. When life gives me that Heideggar sense of thrown-ness, my mind offers up a line from Harlan's work to help me sort it all out.

Case in point: My wife and I are just about to embark on a major project that will see a second floor added to our house and complete reconfiguring of the first floor. This means that my office is going into storage for a few months and we will be living out of our basement. And THIS means that all the time I would usually have for my own writing will be almost non-existent. And as I was struggling to come to terms with this earlier this week, a line from Harlan's excellent essay "Xenogenesis" came to me. When Harlan relays the frustration and fury of having to repair the front door that was ruined by a psychotic fan he laments the time spent on that endeavor as measured by the story (or stories) he will not be able to write. This line hit me as I was driving home from work the other day and I shouted "Yes! My god, that's exactly how I feel right now!"

Please don't misunderstand me: I'm not whining here, I still plan to write, even if it's fifteen minutes a day. I"m just saying that this is what the powerful writers can do - they help us cope.

So thanks to Harlan for helping me cope with this upheaval.

Later,
Walshy

Another thought
Harlan,

Can you imagine the stories like LIFE HUTCH, JEFTY IS FIVE, THE
SILVER CORRIDOR, THE SKY IS BURNING...et al...adapted to a t.v. series like RAY BRADBURY PRESENTS? It would be nice to see these stories on the glass teat in a series called HARLAN ELLISON PRESENTS.

Oh well...just another thought.

STAN B.

:: chuckle:: I'm picturing you tripping over their HEADS, Steve :)

On Clarke as head of NATO
Dear Mr. Reeston,

How in the wide world do you make the case that being head of NATO is part of an "inauspiscious" military career?

Is it sort of like, "Oh pshaw, he was JUST the head of NATO. My goodness, that doesn't say much for this bland layabout, does it? Those heads of NATO are a dime a dozen after all."

Or perhaps its, "My, My. Yesterday I tripped over several heads of NATO that were blocking up my hallway. I think Clarke was one of them. When will they stop giving out this inauspiscious job."

I imagine that's how the case would be made.

ARGGGGGGGHHHHH! My brain is collapsing.

Steve Dooner

Mefisto in Onyx Movie
Harlan,

Thank you for addressing this yourself. I recently read the story again and was struck by what a compelling story it was, a wonderful treatise on growing up and finding your way disguised as a brilliant fantasy piece. It's too bad you didn't write the script; your underrated knack for imagery might've made the landscape scenes such that the loss of Kubrick's eye wouldn't be felt so acutely.

Just Another Comment
Harlan,

Yes guys and gals, it is me, that conservative one, who ruffles feathers when he decides to comment politically. Same name...same town...but a different email address. For you Harlan,
maybe LIFE HUTCH should have been adapted to THE TWILIGHT ZONE. I am supposing here now, that one reason was because you had already mentioned the dreaded Kyban (not sure of spelling on that) on the OUTER LIMITS EPISODE....DEMON WITH THE GLASS HAND.
Anyway, I still love the story, one of the many stories you wrote in the late fifties and all of the sixties. Now to get just
a tad bit political....maybe with the current liberal trend in
Hollywood these days, you can finally get unblackballed and
get your screen writing back on the tube or in the mulitplexes.

Just a thought....have a nice day.

;)...Stan

TEAK:

Go hit all those Samuel L. Jackson sites and tell the yentas that the one and only reliable authority on the material -- me --reports that all rights to the property have reverted to the original author, name of Ellison; that the horse's ass Miramax hired to write my screenplay after I had my quad-bypass took two-three years and turned out first and second drafts so useless and stupid that I shan't even mention his name. He was fired when Sam Jackson said he wouldn't do the film with such a gawdawful screenplay. The studio didn't renew its option in time, and I refused to give them an extension so they could hire ANOTHER inept doofus. That's all several years ago. There is no MEFISTO IN ONYX production in the works now. Not >withwithout< Sam, not nowhichway. Tell 'em I said so, and tell 'em they're couchmonkeys who ought to go out and do some manual labor instead of sitting around at the Gossip-Organ vacuuming up and spewing forth the detritus they mistake for thought.

Cheerily, yr. pal, Harlan

Mefisto in Onyx Movie
Anyone know what happened to this? Some Samuel L. Jackson sites talk about it like it's still getting made.

Todd;

The episode you mentioned aired Dec. 6th, 1985, and was written by Alan Brennert, directed by Don Dunway, and starring Peter Riegert and Chris Hebert.

And, my husband made a mistake. It is Senator ROBERT Byrd, not Richard, as Scotty had indicated. Yes, I know, it's a pain having to clean up after him. I truly sympathise with what Deb goes through with Todd, or the cross Pam bears called Jay.

Just a little note of concern. Has anyone heard from Finder (Doug)? I know he lives in one of the areas affected by Isabel, and was wondering if he's okay. Any who've heard, I wouldn't mind knowing.

Love to all, Melissa

Sorry, Dorie, I said it aired in mid-1985...I meant to say it aired in the mid-80's. If doing a search, don't trust that year.

-TODD

One Life on Twilight Zone
Dorie, in regard to the New Twilight Zone adaption of One Life, Furnished in Early Poverty.....I don't have total recall of the episode as I haven't seen it since the night it aired, sometime in mid-1985 (anyone can run a search on the internet and sound like some expert by feeding information they come up with....me, I would rather use my memory here since I recall the good ole days when that was all I could do for a quick response, and, well, I'm just too lazy to do that now anyway as I'm on another screen working my ticketmaster transaction for the Simon and Garfunkel concert....yup, we's old fogies), but I do recall it being a faithful adaption; not a disappointment. It starred Peter Riegert, but I can't really picture the kid. I don't think he was any famous acting kid.

I'm pretty sure that these Twilight Zones are not available on video, which is a shame since there were other Ellison tales, most notably Paladin of the Lost Hour and Shatterday. It would be great to have a DVD of all Ellison anthology show adaptions from the various shows and ages, but then again, after seeing the turnout here in Phoenix when he flew in like Isabel and dragged out like....ah, fuck the metaphor.....I doubt any company would see the point in struggling over the various rights for a pittance of monetary support.

-TODD

Calling Generals...And Majors...

Frank:

Clark is your garden variety four-star, essentially the Democrat Powell; good but inauspicious military career (Commander-in-Chief of NATO forces is the pinnacle of success.), fair administrator, one-dimensional soldier at best. Bland and faceless, no real opinion outside the question of "to bomb, or not to bomb".

His major failing is that his awareness of US domestic policy could fit in a thimble, and still leave enough room for a family of four to live in luxurious comfort Sort of an inverse Baby Shrub: the Democrat version of the "Vulcan council", largely comprised by Teddy Kennedy, Richard Byrd (Strom Thurmond's not so evil twin. It was always nice to see Byrd and Thrumond sitting in the Senate lounge, reminiscing about their favorite cross burnings. One wonders at the level of loss Byrd had at the death of the ol' Segregationalist.) and Hillary Clinton will go to Little Rock to edumacate the tin soldier on the essentials of knowledge of the problems confronting the people of the US beyond those created in the erzatz War on Terror. Things like health care, education, the economy; all those little things Baby Shrub has been unable to tackle with any degree of competency, while he throws untold billions of your tax dollars at the task of increasing the numbers of US servicemen killed in the streets of Baghdad.

Remember, Cheney has asserted that there may be a need to spend much more than the 87 billion figure quoted by Baby Shrub to continue the restoration of Iraq. Funny that the Iraqis have yet to have any real say into what the new nation will look like.

My thoughts: start with something simple, like teaching Clark the names and capitals of the 48 contiguous American states. Let his ramp up his awareness slowly...

Scott (see why I'm a Libertarian?) Reeston

Justin, we demand that you retract your comments immediately! You think that kangaroos with double uteruses are the only ones with political clout?

Spent an hour writing a long and eloquent e-mail reply to a friend I hadn't heard from in ages... And when it started getting long I should've transferred it into MSWord and saved it at regular intervals. But no, I didn't. Lost that fucker.

The thought of regurgitating it all over again pains and wearies me. I feel Harlan's pain, and it just goes to show it can happen to anyone. It's not that Harlan is "bad with computers," it's that machines are still bone-stick-stone stupid, and unreliable as all hell.

~sigh~

lgg: Oh, envy. I wish SEXIE was coming this way. Death please...Cake! I meant cake.

(Why is Justin sitting on the web on Friday night--like an obese middle-aged redhead with bad skin wearing a KISS A WOOKIE t-shirt--and not out at the clubs chasing after drunk girls? Why did he fritter away the evening watching THE PHANTOM on DVD, scratching himself and eating pizza? Should he loathe and despise himself? Should he turn off the computer and go sit in a corner and cry himself to sleep? Yes, I think so. Shame! Shame!)

On Clarke, Kael and Welles
FRANK: Now that Clarke has firmed up his opposition to the war, I think he could be a serious contender. Of course, any Democrat who isn't a limp clone of Bush will be attacked mercilessly and made out to seem dangerously insane and far too radical.

Just to clarify things, I'll note that Michael Moore isn't exactly supporting Clarke. According to the column on his website, Moore is delighted that Clarke will bring a liberal point of view into the race. (Right now, the average Democratic candidate is bland and conformist. Some of these pipsqueaks even try to out-Bush Bush in their hawkishness.) However, Moore made it clear that he has not formally thrown his support behind any candidate yet.

Today, there were two stories on Clarke's position on the Iraq war. Some of his words were taken out of context earlier today. Later on, he made it clear that he would always have opposed Bush's war. See the article here:

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines03/0919-10.htm




PAVILION PARTCIPANTS: All of this militaristic Bush nonsense keeps bringing me back to David R. Bunch's "Incident in Moderan" in Harlan's Dangerous Visions. Everyone here should read it (or reread it as the case may be). It's the kind of story that will help you get your bearings back.

On Pauline Kael, I have to lend some support to my friend Mark Walsh. Her vicious attack on Orson Welles is a permanent reminder of her weakness as a critic and journalist. Peter Bogdanovich proved that she didn't do a proper job on the book that she wrote on Citizen Kane. Kael seemed content to secretly present John Houseman's point of view on the screenplay, and that's all.

The young Orson was not as arrogant as he was made out to be by Hearst reporters and others. Orson even wanted Herman Mankiewicz's name above his own on the titles (see Frank Brady's book, Citizen Welles, p. 276-277). Despite this gesture, it should be made clear that Welles contibuted enormously to the initial Kane script while also pouring enormous energy, day and night, into the direction of the film, the rewriting of the scipt and the development of his own acting performance as well. It was a superhuman efort. But in Kael's absurd book, Welles was barely present for the making of Citizen Kane.

Today, many people have an image of the young Welles as a pretty boy prima donna who spent all his time cruising chorus girls and drinking martinis. Though Welles certainly had fun chasing Dolores Del Rio and Rita Hayworth, it was the Hearst reporters who used this dissolute image to destroy Welles' artistic reputation. Kael made use of this image too, and, shockingly, it even found its way into Tim Robbins film, The Cradle Will Rock.

But many biographers have shown that Welles's original concept and structure for Kane, along with the preserved manuscript scenes written by Welles and his substantial rewrites and script memos, would have added up to more than fifty percent of the final shooting script. Charles Lederer, the co-screen writer of His Girl Friday, said that Welles would have won any arbitration with the Screenwriters Guild on the Kane script had Mankiewicz forced the issue.

Anyone who doubts Welles contribution to Kane should just listen to War of the Worlds, which was written by Howard Koch as a newscast at Welles' suggestion. Then, that same doubter should watch the opening ten minutes of Citizen Kane. You'll notice an amazing parallel. Welles' loved the idea of parodying news broadcasts and March of Time newsreels, and he has explained that how this device was used to solve a lot of narrative problems in both presentations.

However, Kael wasn't interested in seeing the real genius of Welles. She just wanted to portray him as a talentless failure and fraud who had come to blows with her friend, John Houseman. She never wanted anything to contradict her image of Welles, so she refused to talk to Welles or anybody in his camp while writing a book on Citizen Kane! Even more amazingly, this astute New Yorker film critic never liked any of Welles other films, including Othello, Touch of Evil and the brilliant F for Fake.

I feel it was an unforgivable misuse of her power and status and that, in this case, she used film criticism as a means to character assassination. She took sides with her friend Houseman, which is quite understandable in itself, but how deeply wrong it was to present her bias in a book that is supposed to be an accurate historical account of film history.

Most movie and book criticism in this country is really a form of consumer reporting. "Thumbs up--Thumb's down," with little thought involved. If a critic had a bad pastrami sandwich for lunch, he or she might end up hating Raging Bull or Vertigo. I can't stand this approach. Even Harold Bloom, who should know better, cannot resist making uninformed judgments for posterity about works he has not even attempted to understand. He clearly lacks the scope to see beyond the narrow landscape of his Yale classroom.

We should sue for a higher criticism. I believe in constructive workshop criticism that helps make a good story go. I also like positive criticism that illuminates a work that is assumed to be great art. But literary consumer reporting is so arbitrary and destructive, and it is a major cause of the continued ghettoization of fiction that appears in genre magazines.

I'm not sure if anyone will care about this, and I'm sorry to write so much.

Thanks for your patience,

Steve Dooner

King's column:

It's too short. I want more.

Michael Moore:

I'm walking into a class today when I see a flyer up with the name MICHAEL MOORE in huge letters. If I read correctly (I forgot to go back and double check but will Monday), he's coming to my school to speak next month. I'm there, man.

Bill

All this Stephen King talk reminds me: have any of you folks been reading his new column for 'Entertainment Weekly'? To any Ellison fan, it is clear that this column is a direct descendant of Harlan's Glass Teat and Hornbook series, which is not surprising since King lauds "The Glass Teat" in his excellent non-fiction book "Danse Macabre."

I've read each installment so far and as I do, I can't help but wish for Harlan to return to the essay form on a regular basis. I mean, his essays are just so fucking fun. Harlan, I know you have many other demands on your time, but do you see yourself writing a weekly or monthly column again?

As for Wesley Clark - his NATO experience is encouraging, given that our next President's foreign policy will be known as Operation Pooper Scoop, and concentrate on cleaning up the shit that the Shrub dropped all over the world. And graduating first in his class in West Point means that he has strong communication skills, which is refreshhing. And of course, not even an hour after Clark announces his canidacy, the news sites on the web are crammed with smear stories: Clark went rogue in Kosovo, everyone in the Pentagon hates him, he almost caused world war 3. Pathetic. What would Chomsky say about that, Frank? Huh? HUH?

lonegungirl - I had the chance to see Eddie Izzard in Boston when he was performing his last show, "Circle." At that show, he did a bit on Darth Vader trying to order Penne at the Death Star cantina that left me inches away from death I was laughing so hard. And I hear he is bringing "Sexi" to Boston in October and we're going to try to see him again. Best comedian out there (With the possible exception of Jake Johannsen).

Rich - My pal Dooner beat me to the punch. I'm a recent transplant to Weymouth, having moved here in '99 from the city of Presidents, which is my home town. If I can add one thing to Steve's comment: the traffic in Weymouth and all along the south shore is UNBELIEVABLE. Be glad you don't have to deal with it!

Rob - We're pretty much in agreement on Kael, Bloom and Poe's other journalistic contributions, so there really isn't anything else to say other than we're pretty much in agreement on Kael, Bloom and Poe's other journalistic contributions. (If you get my drift!)

Idle thought: for Christmas, I think we should chip in and get Joe Rogan (new host of "The Man Show") a subscription to Bitch Slap of the Week. So everyweek an ex-con will arrive on his doorstep and bitch slap the punk silly.

Only in a perfect world!

Cake please!
Walshy

Harlan,

It's true! It is my perception of myself long ago and no judgement or pronouncement on your part. You said Orphan Annie eyes and I took a runaway train to 1981. I HAD Orphan Annie Eyes! Sheltered and unconcerned-- the word " unconscious" is an even better fit. You could have picked me like a chicken bone on those first three (endless) chapters of my romance novel...and rightly so! Instead you were kind and offered me ways to approach the task of writing a romance novel if that was what I was certain I wanted to do.

The things you taught us as a class became things that changed not only Dan Simmons' life-- but mine as well, and probably those of many others I don't know about. The little Philistines in Arizona were given a similar opportunity; how sad for them that it slipped through their midst and vanished.

As for Eric's remarks about you leaving carnage in your wake for decades, I'm SURE you did! I am just as certain that those whom you reduced to charnel house litter were decidedly deserving.

I've seen you give as good as you get but I have never seen or even heard of you be unkind for unkindness sake. Anyone who claims you have treated innocent people badly clearly doesn't know a thing about you. You're the most ethical soul I've ever encountered and it pisses ME off when someone tries to paint you differently.

Sorry for the faux pas. You're not mad at me... nooooo you couldn't be mad at ME-- smile why don'tcha. There ya go-- smile! I knew you coudn't stay aggravated with

yer old buddy,
:)
Cindy

What does everyone think of this dude Wesley Clark? He seems to say the right things, but my thing has always been, never trust a General.

Even Michael Moore is supporting him. Didn't Clark run the NATO operation during our Bosnian pogram? Throwing bombs on apartment buildings is not the act of a gallant public servant. I will have to keep my cards close to my vest on this one. But if worse came to worse, I may still have to vote for him.

----------------------

"I think on-stage nudity is disgusting, shameful and damaging to all things American. But if I were 22 with a great body, it would be artistic, tasteful, patriotic and a progressive religious experience."

--Shelley Winters

Late Addendum

I just noticed I wrote "disgard" in my post to Melissa. I cannot allow such an embarrassment to slip by...so let's just say I created a new word and it'll appear officially in all English dictionaries as of Oct. 6.

Eyes of King-Jon Stover
Todd tried to send you a private message, but thinks it didn't make it. So for him I say to you:
" Thanks for the info. "

King
I have a question that may or may not be in bad taste, but since I am an avid reader of Stephen King (only three author's books get special placement in my vast library....Harlan, King and Gene Wolfe), I'm interested in whether or not a rumor is true:

I read some months ago that Stephen King had such sever macular degeneration that he was actually expected to be blind within a matter of a couple of years, or less. I saw this as a blurb, I believe in LOCUS, with no other details. I've never seen this again in any other publication.

Does anyone know how true this statement is? I would certainly expect that to be one of the major reasons for his retirement plans if this is true....sure, he can still write, but maybe it's a personal challenge that may not currently excite him. Then again, he may just be plum tired.

Any idea whether or not this blurb was in error?

-TODD

doin' the hustle

Hey, gang--

Tomorrow morning I get up early (3 a.m.) to catch a 6:30 flight to Logan Int'l (hope Isabel has calmed down by then -- it appears they're having phone system problems in the Northeast this morning). I'm headed out for two weeks of home-made, do-it-yourself book tour -- two appearances in Boston, two in Vermont, three in New York City (see the News page of my Web site for details).

Got a great boost from a meaty interview that appears in this week's Boston Phoenix:

http://www.bostonphoenix.com/boston/news_features/qa/documents/03166168.asp

Hey, Sassone -- give me a quick call to let me know your contact phone number(s). I'm not sure I can dig 'em up from the days when you volunteered to be one of my phone-a-friends for the Millionaire show. My day phone is 503-635-0260, home 503-796-0351. You can try email, but my mailbox is getting flooded with bogus Microsoft spam this week and it fills to capacity in less than an hour unless I'm constantly deleting and blocking.

Wish me luck, guys!

Obligatory Ellison content: What's happened to "On the Road with Ellison volume 2"? There were rumblings about it some months ago but I've heard nothing since.

Frank,

I trust you like I trust the creep in that old 60's movie TARGETS.

Emerson and Poe were contemporary cross-town rivals, philosophically opposite.

I could imagine Bloom's attraction to Emerson, who'd resolved to instruct using his work to preach spiritualism. Poe chose to please and entertain, not teach.

Like your trusty can of UBIK...
Mr. Ellison has again manifested himself in my life.

After my wife passed away last year, I planned to stay put in the house we’d lived and loved in, until my next course of action became clear. I’ll gloss past the time and experience of waiting and watching for this clarity... when it came, things happened quickly. I put the house on the market, got full price for it, and after a little derring-do signed a purchase&sale on a townhouse closer to Boston, my Sept-June workplace. All this, as the busiest time of my job (June-August, 100+ miles from Boston) dawned. I planned to close on the deals upon my return at the end of August.

I got through the frenetic summer, handling the job and the first anniversary of Nancy’s death and the weekly sessions in the karaoke pit and then the truck rental company that welshed on my reservation the evening before I was to pick up the moving truck. I arrived at the attorney’s office to close on the sale of my house. A little frazzled. The buyer had already been and gone.

Sitting atop one of the many piles of paperwork in the attorney’s office was an item that called out to me. I got a little closer, saw it for what it was, and tapped the cover of the Ziesing edition of HE’s Mefisto in Onyx. “Oh yeah,” I said to the attorney, assuming it to be his. He was gratified by my appreciation of the book, for quite different reasons: it was a gift to me, from the buyer of my house, who had recognized my Ellison collection back at the open house in June.

There, through the thoughtfulness of my buyer, a very comfortable stamp was put upon the rest of a still-frenzied time: closing on my purchase, getting myself and my car and my rental truck to a new home, unloading, and facing a slew of bills to catch up on. That stamp bore the name Harlan Ellison.

Various threads
Alex K: Thanks for the Ellison-and-other-writer remembrances.

Horror: It's really the biggest portmanteau genre term, isn't it? Silence of the Lambs and Heart of Darkness don't have supernatural elements but they're horror; The Green Mile isn't scary, but it gets lumped in because it's by Stephen King.

I'd really be interested to see if King's "retirement" turns out to be a shift into other areas of writing. Hell, maybe he'll become a great poet. Thomas Hardy made that shift. It'd be neat to say 'Hey, Stephen King pulled a Thomas Hardy -- who would have guessed that?'

Leaving that aside, his essay on his son's Little League team suggested that he could be a good essayist. A lot of the stories in Everything's Eventual aren't horror and don't involve the supernatural, so maybe he's about to turn into Alice Munro or even Edgar Lee Masters.

Cheers, Jon

Cindy,

We cool. I indicated that in yesterday's post. We cool.

Bill

Justin:

Eddie Izzard is a total scream. I just saw him Monday in his new show "Sexie" which was hysterical...although perhaps not quite as devastatingly funny as Dressed to Kill. He also has a book out called "Dressed to Kill" which is something like an autobiography, and several of his other tours on NSTC video.

I was going to buy a t-shirt, but paused after considering where I could wear a t-shirt with either the word "Sexie" or a color photograph of a transvestite on a motorcycle emblazoned across the chest.

"Death...Or cake?"

Crying on King
Stephen King has been a favorite of mine for years. I read "Carrie" many years ago and moved on to "Christine," etc. His book "The Green Mile" has the distinction of being one of the few books out of so many I've read that have made me cry. The other is Robert R. McCammon's "Boy's Life." For short stores in the crying category, I'll add Harlan's "Ahbhu."

Oops--hit enter a bit too early. Sorry about that, and sorry for the double post.

But! Frank! The idea that Clive Barker "sold out" by writing "fantasy trash" such as IMAJICA seems, at the very least, difficult to support.

"Selling out" is a phrase that gets tossed around far too often, I think, mostly by armchair quarterbacks (like myself). As Barker himself put it, sometimes your stomach speaks more loudly than your heart. And sometimes making commercial concessions can provide the financial security to write more personal, more daring work.

But regardless, how is IMAJICA selling out? Barker had sold well before that, and the kind of dense, intricate, non-Tolkienesque sort of fantasia that book represents could hardly be considered a safe bet financially.

And it isn't trash. It's earnest and it's visionary. Whether or not someone likes it doesn't give him the right to dismiss it as venal and calculated.

For serious, yo.

DEB: "One Life Furnished In Early Poverty" is one of my all-time favorites, but I never saw it on The Twilight Zone (though I had read of its existence in some science fiction encyclopedia)-- what sort of treatment did TZ come up with? Faithful, worthy? How long ago did it air?

Horror Writers
There are horror writers out there who are not only capable, but downright brilliant, at the art of creating three-dimensional people whose struggles transfix us and break our hearts. I can only add my recommendation for the works of Jack Ketchum; his recent short story collection, PEACEABLE KINGDOM, is a high-wire act of astounding impact, the kind of thing that drives other writers to self-loathing despair. Why is Ketchum not a household name? A variety of reasons, I suspect...among them his hard-hitting ruthlessness; he has no problem with creating characters you love and then destroying them utterly. Nobody's safe in a Ketchum book. Nobody. King has sometimes exercised that kind of ruthlessness (see Nick Andros, in THE STAND, for instance), but he **likes** things to turn out all right, a prediliction that seems to steer him, whereas Ketchum just goes wherever the story wants to go.

John Shirley is another good one, though I admire his short stories a lot more than his novels.

Frank!

Frank Church wrote:

"We need the blood Barker! Intestines on the rose bushes."

As a writer, Mr. Barker hasn't really succeeded in engaging my fascination. I managed to plow halfway through CABAL, and then I simply quit. There's something...blocky...about the way Barker writes that sours any attempt at ryhme or rythm in his narratives.

The dude just doesn't impress me as a good writer.

However, his 'Tortured Souls' line -for which he designed the models- is a far better ideal of the 'blood Barker' Frank mentioned. I have the Lucidique toy here on my desk, and unlike the other figures (which are just plain NASTY), there's something deeply ethereal about Lucidique that, strangely, goes hand-in-hand with her grotesque appearence.

But I like being an eclectic bastard, and that's why Harlan's 'I HAVE NO MOUTH AND I MUST SCREAM' poster is suspended directly in front of my workplace. (You'll also find a 13-inch Incredible Hulk statue next to my monitor.)

That's it. I'm done.

Did you try the preview button?
It works...

AACK! This system is slow and would not let me preview and fix spelling errors. Like Todd I type fast with the next thought in my head before the previous words are typed. " Again " and whatever else I misspelled. Before someone corrects me--sorry.

Thanks Yet Aagin Harlan
You call your speaking engagements " Jay Leno Time " and that the writing is what you are all about. So when at the dinner you seemed surprised that I knew anything at all about your writing, I felt kind of bad. I thought it seemed somehow shallow of me to enjoy the talking, but not to read any words. So I decided to change that.
I just read " One Life Furnished In Early Poverty " and I enjoyed it, but was disappointed when I realized I saw this story on Twilight Zone!! I wanted to read something I never saw or knew before. I will read the stories you suggested.
One last note before I close--remember the game version of " I Have No Mouth And I Must Scream " ? (one of the best story titles ever-along with " "Repent Harlequin!" Said the Tick-Tock Man ", " Do Androids Dream Of Electric Sheep? " , " When I Am Old I Shall Wear Purple ", " I Know Why The Caged Bird Sings "....and tons more. I could go on and on about the beauty of certain book titles!! God they are like--I don't know! Some titles alone can make me cry! Ha! Told you I am strange!)I played that. Bye for now--trying to shoo a snake out of my yard!

I will always thank Steve King for leading me to the Books Of Blood, by Barker. Raw, crude, jaw dropping horror by a man who later sold out to write dumb fantasy trash like Imajica.

We need the blood Barker! Intestines on the rose bushes.

----------------------

Cindy, try James Herbert; there's horror with real charactors.

----------------

Rob, why can't you just trust me baby?

Look for Blooms view on Poe; trust me, he doesn't like him. But, to be fair, neither did Emerson.

CINDY:

you are not one of the "loose ends" from my post-Phoenix catch-up. You are one of the two people to whom I wish to respond re the "Are We Afraid to Disagree with Harlan" chatroom conversation. The other is Eric Martin. But both of those replies takes time and source-material gathered, and i just haven't had the loose change to get to them yet. In any event, stop that bullshit about whipped dog cowering. Do not give Mr. Martin another instance of the alleged "carnage" I've supposedly left in my wake for decades, as he put it. You know very well, Cindy, that apart from workshop criticism of your writing more than twenty years ago, I've never raised my voice or said a harsh word to you.

So. Behave yourself. Whipped dog indeed! Pshaw, Madame.

yr. pal, Harlan

DEB:

I do not think you are "strange." I found your explication of personal reading habits "idiosyncratic," as the closest. You seemed perfectly rational on the subject. Sorry to disappoint you and deny you the dubious satisfaction of thinking you're odd for your m.o., but I find it no "stranger" than those who say they only read non-fiction because blahblahblah, whatever their logic. However, though I always was charmed by the knowledge that you'd never read a word of my writing yet were enamoured of my speaking performances, just delighted me, to be candid ... I suppose the loss of that risibility-tickler is evenly replaced by the pleasure of learning that you seem to be enjoying the stories, too. May I suggest "Lonely Women are the Vessels of Time," "Broken Glass," and "Objects of Desire in the Mirror are Closer Than They Appear"? I think you'll find them as one with the things you were reading Before Ellison.

With affection, and ongoing gratitude, Harlan

Hya Barney,
Long time- buddy-o-mine.
I missed yer face around here.
:)
Cindy



Bill, Bill,

DAMN!
Once again I am unable to get my point across cleanly.
This is the same sort of response that I drew from that guy from Germany who called my film on Triggerstreet perverted. It wasn't HIS fault my point was off center.

By my statement, I didn't mean ANYTHING against horror books. I should have put a break between the statement about horror not being my "lick" and the statement about my need for 3'D people. By my "lick" I mean what I'm naturally drawn to, what I enjoy. I enjoy Stephen King's books because of the people-- because I care about what happens to them ( the horror aspects make it all the richer and more addictive) and because he has never let me down. I cannot bypass a Stephen King book. I buy the hard back copies. To me the "horror" tag is just a heads up that something is intended to be frightening. I love Frankenstein-- not because it is a horror tale-- and not in SPITE of the horror aspect of the story-- but because I cared about the monster and was engaged by the people. For me, it is immaterial WHAT genre the book is as long as the people walk and talk and make me care about what happens to them.

It was not my intent to slam horror writers, in FACT if you will look at the "readers submissions" on this board you may be shocked to learn that I have a script posted called INGENA. It is a horror script adapted from a short story I wrote in 1981 as a handstand for Harlan, a shameless attempt to impress him and to wash the memory of my romance novel chapters ( now THERE is a genre to eschew!) from his memory.

I also understand your reaction to what I wrote, so I apologize for my murky ways.

:)
still friends?

Cindy

If literary snobbery is a crime, then Stephen King should be doing a little time himself.

Look at what he wrote about Murray Leinster in ON WRITING. Leinster comes off looking like a pitiful hack who only dreamed of working his way UP to Grub Street. The reality is that Leinster’s work – usually under his real name, Will F. Jenkins – appeared in the top fiction markets of his day, including the Saturday Evening Post. He was a consummate pro who produced a lot of high-grade commercial fiction, occasionally stretching himself – especially in the science fiction field – to turn out stories that were very highly regarded and are well-remembered by longtime sf readers.

The fact that Leinster wrote a novel that King thought was so lousy it inspired King to think he could write something at least as lousy is a poor excuse for King to indulge his snobbery and present, as a likeness of Leinster, what is only a caricature of a hack.

I think popular writers have an obligation to posterity when they discuss the work of less popular writers, because the consequences of getting it wrong in front of a big crowd are serious, probably damaging, and possibly irreversible. I think King failed in this obligation when he gave in to the urge to look down his nose at SOMEBODY and unfortunately picked Leinster. In doing so, I think King did more damage to Leinster’s reputation than any critic could possibly do to King’s. (I wrote King a polite letter to this effect, c/o his publisher, when ON WRITING cam out. No reply, assuming he received the letter.)

Even if I had never read any Stephen King, I would still love the guy. I lost my virginity, thanks to the King of Horror. It was over twenty years ago when I was attending Southern Illinois University in Carbondale. I was tagging along with some Theater Dept. friends who were going to a cast party. Just after I arrived I overheard an attractive young woman arguing about the validity of King's work. I might have just passed on by, except the guy she was talking to was a complete jerk. He really rubbed me raw. So I stepped in and sided with her. For the next few hours I stood in the cramped kitchen with Cari, who was a Music Major, until I realized her fingers were curling over mine. The next thing I knew we were speeding away in her Volkswagon Bug...
Thank you, Mr.King, I love you!!

Harlan: Here are some new jazz releases that might tickle your fancy. "New Conceptions" by Chucho Valdes, out in a few weeks on Blue Note. "New York, New Sound" by Gerald Wilson Orchestra, on Mack Avenue. "Acoustic Romance" by Gene Bertoncinni on Son of Sound. "On This Day At The Vanguard" by Joe Lovano Nonet on Blue Note. Also, a nifty little two-disc anthology entitled "Delmark 50 Years of Jazz" featuring recordings from the 40's through 2002, with Coleman Hawkins, Barrett Deems, Ira Sullivan, Tab Smith, Jimmy Forrest, Sir Charles Thompson, Dinah Washington, Illinois Jacquet and tons of "moderns" like Sun Ra, Roscoe Mitchell, Archie Shepp and Ken Vandermark.

yours, R.Wilder

Justin:

Your comments about Bloom stun me to the core, not based on the existence of the debate about King (a man I feel has shackled himself to a genre factory, thereby is undermining a considerable talent writing crap that's beneath him. King done correctly: Harlan Ellison), but based on the simple fact that you've not read "William Shakespeare", or "The Western Canon", or his wonderful introduction to an edition of George Orwell's "Animal Farm", or...

Remember, only those with informed opinions should express themselves, n'est ce pas?

Shaking his head in sadness, Scott

Chris,

"Ebert...I am puzzled endlessly by his inexplicable love for the trashiest of action movies"

I like to refer to those moments as when Roger goes off the deep end.

What he's trying to do, of course, is classify his reviews according to the type of movie the filmmaker was trying to make - and why it did or didn't work in its intent. He openly admits, too, that he falls victim to his childhood loves - among which, I guess, must have been the matinee cliffhangers.

I forgive him for those moments because of the breadth in his overall observations, as those here clearly forgive Kael for her absurdities. (Even when I disagree with Ebert on a film I often find his subordinate arguments provocative. Kael, because of SO MUCH one-sidedness, just didn't do that for me. The only other reviewers I recall off hand drawing me in that way are Richard Schickel, who ignited my fascination with film as an art form when I was 10 with his terrific book THE DISNEY VERSION, Harlan, and Gene Siskel.)

Having said that, Gene Siskel is a much missed counterpresence for Ebert. Always set to roll his eyes (a talent I've never seen another critic match) in reaction to Roger's sillier comments, he helped keep his colleague's feet on the ground. Gene was very much the Yin to Roger's Yang.

Melissa,

If there was any merit in Frank's charge that Bloom disgarded Poe, "narrow-minded" seems a damn good qualifier to me. Poe is so highly regarded in both art and academia. Yeah, if there's any truth to it I would have to disgard Bloom as a joke.

HARLAN: I’m glad I was able to help, though really I wasn’t aware of doing much besides sitting in my seat tittering like a chucklehead most of the time. It was a pleasure and a privilege. If somebody had told me, when I was fourteen or so, that one day I’d be sitting around chatting with the fellow who was blowing my brains out—just pasting the walls of my bedroom with blood, bone and cerebellum—with THE ESSENTIAL ELLISON and EDGEWORKS 1…shee-it! I shall offer up my services as Good Audience Member whenever possible in the future. My tuchis ain’t that far away. Thanks also for the information about the best DON QUIXOTE translation on the market. I can't wait to dig into it.



I’ve got to get dash off to class, so forgive me if I get staccato with the remainder of this post. I just want to add my voice to the chorus of those singing Stephen King’s praises. I’ve loved the guy ever since I was 9, and I scrimped and saved to buy the hardback of the new version of THE STAND. The thing weighed about as much as I did. But I managed to haul it home, and I faked sick so I could stay home from school to read it. That was the first book to ever knock my head clean off my shoulders, and King has continued to decapitate me over the years on a pretty regular basis. This Bloom chap sounds like just an ant at a picnic to me, scarcely worth the breath to blow him off the pastries. Also, King’s ON WRITING is primo stuff, agreed?

If I may, I’d like to leave you with a film recommendation. For fans of comedy concert films (and good heavens, who isn’t?), I commend your attention to EDDIE IZZARD: DRESS TO KILL. I think it’s fairly new to DVD, and I saw it yesterday evening. I was gathering my intestines off the carpet at the end of the thing. He did a bit about the Italians that was so spot on, I thought I’d asphyxiate. I have a few more things I wanted to say, but I’ve got to run. As we Italians say,

Ciao,

J

Agree/Disagree...

Chris M.:

Yes, we do agree on the passion of Bloom's relationship with writing, and of that I'm glad. I'd not like to think that those who write would turn so harshly on criticism, it makes for poorer writing in my opinion. And, I'm the type who would like to earn the acceptance of those who judge me the most harshly. I have an innate dislike for the yesman, or others of syncophantic ilk.

Now, "narrow minded"? I find that a bit harder to swallow. My impression is that Bloom is remarkably well-read, and continues to keep abreast of most forms of fiction, not languishing into simply one genre or writer, as so many have done. One need only consider the opinions in "Genius" to understand that Bloom has touched on the expanse of literature, with the exception of real discussion of speculative fiction (a point husband Scotty has made at length), and its merits and pitfalls as a genre. I'd be most interested in what he'd have to say, either positive or negative.

Bloom has confronted other issues of mainstream literature; one recalls the debate over Bloom's dislike of the Harry Potter books. (An side: I couldn't agree less with his position, but not for the reasons both he and his critics listed.) But that, and the issue over Bloom's estimation of King's work, is the job of a critic, plain and simple. And, I take his words with both a grain of salt, and the hope that the exhortations demand the writer to try to improve the craft. The "worth" will be determined by history, something beyond yours, mine, Bloom's and King's hands.

One of your criteria makes part of my point:

"B) Whatever I read, write or view, one of two goals should ALWAYS be accomplished; my feelings, attitudes and opinions are either altered or opened to some new view or understanding, or they are reinforced."

Bingo! Bloom's critique has done its job, here and elsewhere. It has solicited a number of posts of varying lengths and varying amounts of anger; I would wager, larger response from people both here and about the globe expressing merit or criticism of King, of Bloom, perhaps of writing in general. And, I can't see that as bad in any way. King's work will get more notice, Bloom's critique will be examined, both will come under examination. Perhaps King would take Bloom's words to heart, even if it's in the act of pushing himself to create something better as an act of revenge. Everyone, especially the audience, would benefit.

What bothers me is when people cry "snob", "dilettante", or any other names used to dismiss Bloom's comments, rather than taking it to task. Does his work have merit? Obviously, the panel selecting the National Book Award felt yes, and could show good argument for having done so. There is great admiration by the buying public for King's work, that is well worth noting. But, I cringe when the name-calling begins, those comments are no different in tone, attitude and intent than those shown in the "snob's" comments in Faisal's anecdote. Show the love of King's work by debating Bloom's words on its merits and hearing his criticism, rather than giving the appearance of pouting, throwing a rock, and then running off into the night.

Nothing but good could come from that. Especially for writing.

All that being said, I do have it much easier than most of you. In my craft, the entirety of criticism rests in one act; whether or not the person buys. Makes it far easier to deal with rejection.

Melissa

Not to distract too much from the tenor of posts about monkey sack, but -

Since movie crit. and Ms. Kael were on the table I was reminded of this quote;

"You have to be open to the idea of getting drunk on movies. (Being able to talk about movies with someone--to share the giddy high excitement you feel--is enough for a friendship.) Our emotions rise to meet the force coming from the screen, and they go on rising throughout our movie-going lives. When this happens in a popular art form--when it's an art experience that we discover for ourselves--it is sometimes disparaged as fannishness. But there's something there that goes deeper than connoisseurship or taste. It's a fusion of art and love."
-- Pauline Kael ("Movie Love," 1991)

Even when you thought she was so wrong it would make you hurl the paper across the room, it's hard to dislike anyone who could put that down on paper.

- Barney

THE FLYING MONKEY SCROTUM OF DOOM by Bukk Nekkid, coming to your local bookstore this week!!

Steve,
Thanks for correcting me on that place. As soon as you said it, I remembered the name.

Bukk,
C'mon, Bill, that's your porn name. You just let it slip is all.

Sorry about the second post...I'm typing in the dark and noticed I SPELLED MY OWN NAME WRONG!!! BILL Gauthier. Not Bukk.

Oh, fukkit.

B.G.

Cindy,

Y'know I love ya, right? Good. So as I respond to "I need books that have living people- 3-D, walkin' talkin' human beings" as a reason for not reading horror, you'll forgive me. As someone who's trying to build a writing career by writing mainly horror stories (or at least writing strangely horrific stories), please know that what you said is like me saying, "I have nothing against Texas except that most of the people are redneck drunks living in trailers." There are many horror novels out there with 3D characters. Just because YOU haven't spent the time trying to find them isn't a reason to lump everyone together. MANY genres don't have "living people- 3-D, walkin' talkin' human beings." Even the so-called mainstream. If you don't like horror books, that's fine. Not everything is everyone's cuppa tea. But don't go and make a broad generalization when SOME of us are working our asses off trying (all I can say is that I try) to create real people in horrific situations. I mean, follow King's lead, read a book by Bentley Little, his books are usually fun at the least. Jack Ketchum is another one. Peter Straub. Hell, follow Harlan's lead, Dan Simmons's SONG OF KALI (friends with Mr. King, too) and Poppy Z. Brite's LOST SOULS. They are out there. Again, I don't give a flying monkey's scrotum on whether you read or don't read horror novels, just don't lump everyone together. It's bad for your teeth and skin. Trust me.

Bill

P.S. I could recommend an upcoming anthology called BORDERLANDS 5 which features a novella by Stephen King and stories by John Farris, Bentley Little, Whitley Streiber and a few other writers, some you may have heard of. www.borderlandspress.com is where you can learn to get a copy.

The Orphan Annie Eyes
I saw them this week---the Orphan Annie Eyes.

My college students often don't know how to react verbally (or musically). They don't know how to converse (or "conversate" in the President's English). They don't know how to describe what they just heard. They don't know how to ask questions or articulate how the music they've just heard or sung effects them emotionally or physically, even.

At least, some of them don't---not unless you prod 'em. Since I deal with music, specifically jazz, it's really important that they not only learn to listen but to REACT. So I set up activities where they're forced to react. I ask direct questions and make them aware of what *they* should be asking. But they don't understand the music yet and they don't listen to it enough. It's not their "real" culture.

But when I tell them that internationally acclaimed, artistically influential and unique jazz singer Sheila Jordan (who they may not---almost certainly DO not--- know about yet) is going to be in the area, I expect them to have some interest...the Orphan Annie Eyes.

When I tell them Sheila was married to the pianist Duke Jordan and that she KNEW Charlie Parker, I expect a spark...the Orphan Annie Eyes.

When I tell them there's a free workshop....well, you guessed it.

Sorry. Bad day at the office. Put me in mind of HE's audience.

The kids' "real" culture probably isn't being Stephen King completists, either, but they've probably read a book or two. And they almost certainly have seen movies based on his works. One of my very favorites is "The Shawshank Redemption" which I believe appeared in DIFFERE