Hey Barney,
You want Pleasure Domes, I can show you Pleasure Domes....
If you look over here we have a very nice fixer-upper with just one owner - A Mr. Khan... Cuba, Kubla, something like that.
Over there we have a little number that I heard was a popular spot for Gene Kelly in his later years.
Anyway, if you don't like these - I'm sure we can find something around here for you.
Take my card - give me a call - our financing terms are VERY reasonable.
Sex Queen - Sex Slave, it's those pleasure domes that arouse my interest, er, I mean concern me. But seriously, thanks for setting me straight on the title. Personally, I think taking notes while talking to Harlan on the phone should be some sort of new Olympic sport. Of course, if I keep messing up his titles it'll be a bloodsport.
Gregg - while I am as concerned for Ray Bradbury's health as anybody here I couldn't help but think of Vonnegut's recent theme that it's our big brains that are always getting us into trouble! Certainly the case with me. Well, in the words of Wallace from the claymations - "Time to take the dog for walkies..."
Xanadu: Thanks for the update on Ray Bradbury's condition. There don't seem to be any websites on him with any information more current than 1998.
I was sad that day when I found out he had a stroke. He was going to do a book signing after the speech, and that would have been the first time I ever met any author I've read. I was going to ask him to sign my Best of Henry Kuttner collection, which he wrote the introduction for, and I was hoping he'd be pleased that someone still read his old friend Kuttner. Later that day I stopped by a bookstore and checked out the most recent Bradbury publications. I read some of his recent introductions in those books, and noted that he seemed preoccupied with the mental process of writing and storytelling. Ironic then that he would be felled by his own brain. A stroke is perhaps the worst fate for a writer.
Nicole! Welcome back.
Everybody::: hmmm. Well, I changed my major last monday, having finally dropped out of the engineering rat race (I used to say that my writing would interfere with my engineering studies. Then I prioritized my life and found that my lack of interest in engineering was interfering with my writing time), and was figuring out my schedule for next semester (all philosophy classes) when I spied a rather interesting graduate class that I'm going to try my damndest to get into. It was listed in the schedule of classes as Engl 240: Seminar in Creative Writing. Then my eye wandered across the page toward the time. Saturdays, nine AM. Then I saw the prof: UK LEGUIN. hmmm. I'd heard rumours to this effect from my writing professor last semester and most of me was hoping it was true, but my skeptical nature kept me from fully appreciating the apparent reality of it all. Now I just have to see if an undergraduate Phil major has a chance at getting into a graduate english course. It would be nice, for once, to have a story ripped apart, not because its that "genre crap," but because it's just crap.
Also, to anyone in the SF Bay Area and beyond: Le Guin will be speaking at San Jose State University on April 27. Previous, on March 16, we'll have Joyce Carol Oates.
All of a sudden, I'm looking forward to next semester.
---Peter
ALL: oops, Barney and Andy got the title of the Ellison novella wrong. Its, "The Toad Prince, or Sex Queen of the Martian Pleasure Domes." (at least that's how "Amazing has it listed) (Whew, perfection ain't easy). Out here, DTS
HEY, BARN: Just wanted tuh add somethin' to yer bulletin about that new Ellison novella, "The Toad Prince,or Sex Slaves of the Martina Pleasure Dome" -- if you 'n the rest of the good folks at this here site mosey on over to this here URL --> (www.wizards.com/amazing/coming.asp), you'll find a page that trumpets the news even further. In fact, from that page you can take a link to another page that goes on to describe Ellison's new story thusly: "...a wild, weird, and wonderful novella purposely written in the style of the 1940s and 1950s. A pure space opera done as if you were picking up this magazine in late 1949. It's not parody, it's not satire, it's the Real Thing-a pulp-era adventure guaranteed to give you that one last frisson of melancholy joy as you drench yourself in dear nostalgia one more time. So oil your sonic blaster, crank up your anti-grav sled, don your plasteen shorts, and come with us, back to a time when Space was Lighter..." Don't know 'bout the rest of you folks, but that there sounds pretty good to me. Gotta go now. Everybody whistle...doo-doot,doot,doot duh-doot,doot,doot duh-doot,doot,doot,da-doo! See ya later, Barn! --Andy (aka, DTS)
Gregg -
It just broke into general news that Ray Bradbury indeed had a stroke - his right side is paralyzed, but he is expected to make a full recovery. He is resting in his Palm Springs home.
Hey Kids! Ellison news! I don't mean to steal any of Rick's thunder but I was talking to Harlan a couple of days ago and he asked me if I had seen issue #599 of Amazing. I confessed that I had not and he informed me that if I checked out the coming next month blurb I would find that the 600th issue of Amazing would feature "The Toad Prince; or Sex Slaves of the Martian Pleasure Domes" which Harlan has been tinkering with for many many moons. He said he had been up until 2:00AM with it and that it was possibly being typeset as we spoke. It looks to be an all-star issue with Silverberg and many other notables. #599 also has an article by Kristine K. Rusch in which she favorably mentions "Repent! Harlequin, said the Ticktockman" and reproduces the cover plate from the HC edition of the Illustrated Ellison, which one does not see everyday. Outside of my house. The World Fantasy Con was quite nice and the Dillons are the nicest people and far too good for the likes of us. We're lucky to have them. Can somebody lend me about 10 grand? I saw some stuff at the art show that would look really nice in my hall. Well, I must go get cinematically caught up. Happy Reading. Bear Hugs - Barney
INFOMAN - Pure speculation, but could IHNMAIMS have been left out of the tradepaper because of HE's unhappiness with it? There's been persistant talk that the adaptation was well below HE's expectations, and only ran in the issues it appeared in because the original text of the story was prtesented as well (allegedly a concession DH made to HE). Granted, I have NO substantiation for any of this grapvine chatter, so if anybody has concrete data, I welcome the opportunity to stomp out my ignorance like so many crawly things at the picnic.
Nicole: "I Have No Mouth..." came out in "Harlan Ellison's Dream Corridor," issues 1,2,3 and 4 -- but it wasn't included in the reissue that collected HEDC 1-5 (not sure why, except maybe there was a copyright problem). Informationally, the Man.
Yep, it's been a while...(looks over all the new faces and hugs the old-timers) Long hiatus there, don't want to get into it. As it is, I'll be around a lot more than usual. Anyway, does anyone know the name of the comic that had _I Have No Mouth And I Must Scream_ in it? I've been looking everywhere for it. -Nicole Over & Out
HE is quoted briefly in "The Sandman Companion," which hit stores this week. The contribution, which is only a few paragraphs in length, essentially praises "Sandman," calling it "seminal work which influences everyone." Nothing shocking to fans of Ellison or Gaiman.
Buried more deeply within the text may be more from HE, though. His name does appear highlighted on the back cover, and I haven't read the whole thing yet, and it has no index. So. A great buy anyway, for Gaiman fans.
Joe: Yes, I was aware DOOMSMAN was regarded as crap when I bought it, and I did so anyway to fill a hole in my collection.
A couple of HE's out of print books are now available on bn.com as an e-book. However, you have to spend $260+ for the mini computer so you can read the book. Sounds like a nifty idea, if only it were cheaper. You can use it to read at night (has a back light) and it has a dictionary.
As for the double-volume "A Touch of Infinity/The Man With Nine Lives," that *is* a hell of a find. Not because it's rare (but it is *very* rare), but because, from what I know of both of those books, the writing isn't all that bad, something worth reading. Good show.
I just feel like rubbing it in: Somebody paid $25 for DOOMSMAN? Have you ever *read* it? It's crap. (I've heard HE agree with this assessment many times.) I got my copy for buck five years ago, the original edition. Hee-hee.
Anybody hear anything about Ray Bradbury? He was scheduled to give a lecture in Allentown, PA on 11/7/99, but his appearance was cancelled due to illness. An announcement was made that he had a stroke last Thursday. Any news out there on his condition?
Hey folks, time for a little de-lurking. The Best Friend-type Person and I were watching some movies last night, finished them off a few minutes before the local late news was done, and turned on the glass teat. Imagine my surprise when I found that the boobs who run this network had taken The Howard Stern Show off and replaced it with The Outer Limits. Wow! Now to the icing on the cake. The episode that was on was entitled 'The Human Operators', based on the short story by one Harlan Ellison and A.E. Van Vogt. Naturally, I responded as I often do to such things: I jumped up off the couch, sending The Best Friend-type Person falling to the floor, where she cursed me in Italian, and caused the wild bunch, sound asleep, dead to the world, to come to their four-leggedness, yapping and barking at nothing while I hurried off to my office to snag my battered paperback copy of Partners in Wonder, in which can be found said short story. Great, it was, reading the story again after I watched the 'based on version'. Gotta say, though, the short story was the better of the two. Interesting aside: The voice of Ship was Malcolm MacDowell (sp?), who, in this context, sounded just like Unca Harlan doing a writing workshop, and the narrator, the boy, bore an obvious to a younger days Unca Harlan. Question: Since the resemblance between the narrator and HE is so obvious I am curious as to whether or not HE had any say in the casting. (Yes, I know: It's unlikely, but, still. . .). Finally, where can I find the piece of music listed at the start of the short story? Well, lurking mode again. Until next time. . . Jim Hess
Mr. SA - On average, the Ace double goes on the secondary market for $60 - $70, with some ridiculously low (about $25) or high ($125) prices on either side; I paid $45 about seven years ago; I'd say you paid a fair collector's price. And as an aside, I thought "The Sound of a Scythe" - which still hasn't come out - was going to be a revised, longer version of "The Man With Nine Lives". Could be wrong, but I seem to recall a couple of forthcoming lists in the past that made this claim.
Mr S.A.: Offhand, I'd say that rare Ace Double was a good find, and I wouldn't feel bad about the price as long as the book is in decent shape and it's not coming out of the food & rent money. I paid 25 bucks or so for a DOOMSMAN, and it wasn't even the original edition. A completist's gotta do what a completist's gotta do.
From "Dream Watch", September 1999, Number 62
Review by Sandra Bruckner
"J. Michael Straczynski discusses some of the problems encountered with Crusade - but also fills in some gaps and goes into some of the potential story lines for the series. Where could the first season have taken us? What would we have discovered? What questions would have been answered?
"All that in the past, JMS talks about the future. He's just finished an adaptation for National Public Radio of a classic short story "The Marching Morons". It will be included in a series entitled "Beyond 2000" on NPR, dramatizing short stories and hosted by Harlan Ellison."
Hi all, I went to a used book dealership today and bought a copy of an ACE Double Novel Books of Harlan Ellsion's A Touch of Infinity/The Man With Nine Lives (copyright 1960) for 50 bucks. I have never heard of this book before but I knew that an abridged version of The Man With Nine Lives appears in Ellison's collection The Sound of The Scythe. Well I was wondering if I was ripped off (even so I think it was worth it anyway because I'll pay anything for Ellsion's stuff). And has anyone read these short novels? How are they? Thanks for the help.
As for the fate of White Wolf. I think they've been trying to back out of the publishing game for about a year now, but have been going at it slowly so as not to renege on too many commitments. As for their being sold? That was a hoax perpetrated as a publicity stunt for a new game set of theirs. They've fixed up the website with the proper information and explain why they did it. I think maybe their timing may have been a little improper because my first reaction to viewing the site was not "oh, they've been sold," but "oh they've been hacked." Oh well.
---Peter
ALL: Someone, I can't remember who it was, posted a query about White Wolf, asking if they are still in business and, if they weren't, what it meant for the future of the EDGEWORKS series. Well, while I can't answer that last part of the question, I can tell you that Robin Wayne Bailey, who latest trilogy (a continuation of the Fritz Lieber Farfhrd and Gray Mouser series) was being published by White Wolf (they managed to get the first book, Swords Against Shadowland, published)...I can tell you that Bailey advised his agent is shopping the next two books around to another publisher. Bailey told me that although White Wolf hasn't come out and admitted that they have basically "shut down" the publishing end of their business, he's pretty sure that will happen (and perhaps it already has). Bummer.
Out here, DTS.
Well, Finder, on reflection, I'm actually going to wait until it's sold.
BUT ... writing that letter to Unca Harlan DID do me a world of good--I looked at it and said, "Hey! With a little tweaking, this could be a good query letter!"
Writing the query and synopsis, you see, are two of my big fears. So that's another one I owe Ellison.
On another note: Have you ever noticed what a joy it is to be young and ignorant?
I just paid a quarter for a copy of the 25th Anniversary copy of F&SF--the one with "Islets of Langerhans" in it--and was delighted to the core to find not only an Asimov Black Widowers story I'd never read, but also a Sturgeon story I didn't know, a Philip K. Dick story that was new to me, a Papa Schimmelhorn story by der scribbeler R. Bruton dot I haff neffer seen, one by Pohl and Kornbluth, Judith Merril, Poul Anderson, Dickson, Vance ...
It can be FUN not knowing stuff, if only to experience the joy of new discovery!
Alex - No harm, no foul. As someone who uses the wee small hours to great (or dubious - it depends) creative advantage, I've stood on that bleary, early spot myself. And yeah, upon reflection, the direct route for a business inquiry might be a little hinkey. I think Infoman (naturally) has the right pitch and yaw for the plane. Whichever route you take, best of luck!
Hey Alex - just want to say good luck with the thing! You get bonus points just for persevering enough to finish!
FINDER: Oops. This is what I get for editing until eight in the morning and posting when not fully awake. My apologies.
(but would it seem overly familiar to send what is, after all, a business letter to the man's home? I worry about these things.)
CHAD: The story that she's thinking of is "Broken Glass", which can be found in the book ANGRY CANDY.
Hi. I'm a big Unca Harlan fan, but my brain isn't big enough to answer a question posed by my girlfriend.
She says she read an Ellison story involving a woman on a bus, in which a man on the bus enters her daydreams and acts as a voyeur. She also claimed that there may have been some lesbian overtones to the story, in terms of the woman's daydream.
This story sounds very familiar, but I cannot place it. I appeal to the collective minds of the bulletin board: Does anyone know the title and volume(s) this story appears in?
Direct email responses to chadu@yahoo.com would be appreciated.
Much thanks!
Alex - Huh? Who said anything about the web site and Rick? I was speaking the direct house address (i.e. Ellison Wonderland, Casa Del Ellison, that sporty mansion in the hills) as opposed to the business P.O. Box HERC utilizes for correspondence. The man versus the recording collection apparatus. I can only presume that you read WONDERLAND as WEBDERLAND and hastily hit me with that stick on principle...
FINDER: Well, no; I don't want to "send it through" the website, for two reasons: One, Rick may be stocky, but he really doesn't look like a mailbox to me. It's not his job (hell, this whole WEBSITE isn't his job), and I don't want to impose. Two, Yeah. Not taking the time to write out and mail a hold-the-paper-in-your-hands letter. I'm sure HE would just get all warm and tickly at that thought.
PHILIP: Well, the anxiety is more brought on by the whole submission process--and felling "intimated" by Harlan? Is that like being made a friend? (Sorry; couldn't resist)
INFOPAL: Oh, I know; it's just that I want to get these things out of the way--and, to be honest, the more I write ABOUT the book, the better query letter I'll be able to send (I absolutely SUCK at query letters and synopses. I've a few published friends helping me, but I'd really rather just have the option of taking an agent/editor hostage and making them read the whole thing--I want to be judged on the BOOK, not on a letter.
(and no; I wouldn't pull a Rupert Pupkin; that was only a joke ...)
ALEX: one more thing. (And this isn't meant to discourage you). Usually, things like rights for quotes and such can be dealt with via a publisher (they have folks to do just that) once your book is sold. Just a thought (and perhaps a way to save yourself, and Ellison, some time). Yours in-the-know, Infoman.
ALEX: regarding your wanting to use a quote of Ellison's for your book. Actually, if you want to do it the old-fashioned, professional way, you should write to his agent, Richard Curtis, whose address is available online and off. You'll even see a note on the indicia page, advising people to do just that. Informationally, the man.
Alex: If you haven't sent the letter to HE yet, it wouldn't hurt to throw in a sentence saying you'd be willing to pay a small fee for use of the quote. You might think this is silly, but it's not.
I've sent official requests to the HERC, and the response is usually prompt. If you give HE your telephone number, he's likely to call you personally and talk about it---if it's something he feels needs talking about. No need to feel nervous. Harlan's a good guy. He is *thee most* down-to-earth, sincere and honest, and relaxing person to talk to. Perhaps he was slopping on the charm when he was talking to me, but I don't think there's any reason for you to feel intimated talking or writing to him.
Alex - Though I haven't had occasion to get mail turned around from HERC, I seem to recall that HE's reply to the note I jotted off to his home address arrived in my SASE within three weeks. Of course, mine was a "hi, think I have a book you're looking for, loved "Slippage", how's the ticker?" letter. Given your reason for writing, I wouldn't think it would languish unduly. And I think it would be appropriate to send something like this on the direct route to Ellison Wonderland, rather than through the business machinations of HERC - more direct for everyone involved.
Okay.
Biting the bullet--and maybe jumping the gun.
I'm finishing the final edit of my novel tonight, and I'm finally writing to Harlan to ask permission to use his lines as an epigram.
I'm not a little intimidated, to be honest; though I've met a fair number ofcelebrities online or face-to-face, this is the first time I've written what construes a fan letter since, at the age of eleven, I wrote a gushing paean to Garry Trudeau, of DOONESBURY fame (still have the postcard he sent back, too).
I know this isn't actually a "fan letter", but still, it's daunting.
Anyone know how long it usually takes for letters sent to the HERC to receive replies--IF they receive replies (I'm surprised the man even has time!)?
(And yes; SASE is enclosed)
Hey folks,
If anybody is going to the mid-Ohio con and can pick me up a program book from that event or any other Ellison related media [ie. audio or video tapes] I can and will gladly repay in kind. Drop me a line. Thanks.
Re: Thedore Sturgeon. Personal favorites would have to be "If All Men Were Brothers, Would You Let One Marry Your Sister?" and "Some Of Your Blood" By the way, his favorite cover for "Some of Your Blood" was the Ballantine pb with the glass of wine and the rose on the white background. I was lucky enough to have met him a few times in the 1970's and I have to say that he had a genuine capacity to make you feel that what you thought and said and the way you chose to feel about others genuinely mattered. It was a sort of charasmatic gift I suppose. A very different kind of charisma than Harlan has. I've often wondered if I met him now if it would be the same way. Being a teenager looking for role models can screw up your perceptions mightily but I suspect he was still nearly unique in his ability to make people feel included. He once told me I had asked the only intelligent question he had heard at a particular convention and I still smile to think on that.
Hey folks, anybody else going up to the 25th World Fantasy Convention next week? Let me know and or say hi if you see me.
Just acquired a copy of a fanzine with a LONG essay comparing Harlan"s work to Lord Byron's with follow-up correspondence from Harlan and the author. Heady stuff. Be good to each other...
(Delurking for a moment) Hi, all! My favorite Theodore Sturgeon book is "E Pluribus Unicorn" and one story in this is, I think, my favorite short story of all time. It is "A Saucer of Loneliness". This story breaks my heart whenever I read it. I highly recommend both book and story. Thanks for listening! Bye!
(Going back into lurkdom)
Just found this place! I love Ellison's stuff but havn't read it for a while. I just started reading William Browning Spencer's short stories and love them. Has anyone eles read Spencer? His story "Haunted By The Horror King" is hilarious.
PEG: Yup; been going there once a day for a month now. I've checked them out extensively, and while it may have begun as something of a lark, if a charitable one, is definitely the real deal.
I hate to break in again, but has anyone visited White Wolf's web site recently? I'm guessing they've been hacked. In case not, and they *have* been bought by this group called Anonymous Liberty, what does this mean for the continuation of the Edgeworks series?
I love this contradiction on their page. Apparently "ANONYMITY is key to taking responsibility for your actions"... so identify yourself by giving us your e-mail address and demographic information.
Anybody get the new Harlan B5 Profiles card yet?
I did.
Hehehe.
Hi good webderlanders. Normally I wouldn't promote a website on here, but I thought you folks should know about this. Most folks on this board seem to be generous and more than willing to help a good cause.
Well, I got one for ya, and it's simpler than you ever imagined. Some of ya may already know about it. It's called The Hunger Site, address is www-thehungersite-com.
This site provides the easiest possible way for you to help the world's hungry. Just click the donate button. That's it. No names, addresses, forms, requests for money - nothing but a simple click on the internet. The site uses business sponsors who pay for the food, and in return the businesses get free promotion (button links to their websites show up on the thank you page after you donate).
Let me add that this is a legitimate endeavour; the site works through the United Nations world food fund. It is not a chain mail or hoax. Don't take my word for it - just go to the site and look around, you'll be able to tell.
I can't tell you enough what I think of this charity. I think they've really found a new way to get people to "do their part" (though in honesty it's the businesses who really chip in). It could be the equivalent of corporate giving in the e-commerce world.
Thanks for listening, we now return you to your regularly scheduling posting... Peg
FINDER: You're funny. And very cool. I like yuh (no matter what anybody else says:) Have a good one. And remember the immortal words of "George of the Jungle" (as voiced by Brendan Fraser): "Javajavajavajavajavajavajava!" Informationally yours, the man.
The scary thing is, Infoman, you almost had me. It took my little voice saying "Read it again, you dope" about four times that kept me from hitting 'Send message' prematurely.
Boys and girls, there's a moral here: never contemplate responding to a post until the first cup of coffee hits and at least a few gray cells are operating, including the ones that cause you to read more carefully. otherwise, you run the risk of asking for more info on a man named Shuttletusche, and (dare I say it?) making an ass of yourself.
Uuuuunnnnngggghhhhhh. Need more java....
FINDER: O. Henry, the "undisputed master" of the short story? In the early 1900s?!!?! I beg to differ! You have obviously overlooked the great short fiction Loyld Andrew Shuttletusche, who wrote such fine short fictions as "Analmisbehavin'"; "Bummed Out"; "Can It!"; and my personal favorite, "Butkiss." Although subsequent studies by University Academics across the nation revealed that these fictions were thinly disguised erotica which revealed Shuttletusche's peculiar sexual obsession, I submit that these hidden (backdoor?)themes do nothing to invalidate the genius of the man. Long live Shuttletusche! (say it with me, friends) Long live Shuttletusche. (whew). (It's amazing what too many deadlines and too little time can do to a person's mind). Informationally, the man.
Yes, Finder, O Henry was another glaring omission. The more I think about it, the more I realize that, for the most part, they simply ignored short story writers, at least the American ones.
I also think that between his novellas, short stories and scripts, Richard Matheson deserved a spot as well.
There were plenty of names that could have been cut. I won't agure that To Kill a Mockingbird is a great, great, important book but does Harper Lee get to make it based on precisely one work? Maybe, maybe not.
Oh well, at least the list did inspire me to start reading more of the so-called great works of the century. I realized how few I had actually read.
I'm working my way through Lolita right now. Hey, it's pretty awesome but I wish I had a smaller dictionary 'cause I have to lug this big one around with me wherever I'm reading Lolita so I can look up words every two or three minutes. Geez!
-chris
Given the number of possible submissions (and omissions) from the Writer's Digest list, I was surprised to see Rod Serling made the list. He was part of the reason I developed an interest in scriptwriting inthe first place - to accomplish the storytelling in a half-hour script that he could when he was "on" first roped me into stringing words. Sadly, I've found very few other people in my travels who remembered him as a writer, rather than as "that Twilight Zone guy" - and those who do have been prone to dismissing him as a "television" writer.
And while we're on writers with twist endings, let me throw another omission lament on the fire: O. Henry, undisputed master of the short story from 1903 to 1910.
RE: typos in MY post. Okay, you say tomato, I say TUH-MAH-TOE; you type "their," and my fat fingers type "there." Go figure. Out (of) here, DTS.
RE: the "Writer's Digest" list of the week. Maybe there was a typo. Maybe the list included the "best-selling" and most influential writers. And since best-selling writers could conceivably influence everything from jobs at the big, NY publishing houses to the stock market (lookit what "Harry Potter" and J.K. Rowling did for her British publiser's stock), then there list could actually be looked at as a valid one. (Hey, would I kid you guys?). Out here, DTS.
About the 100 Most Influential Writers of the Century list, Chris said, "John Grisham and Danielle Steele make the cut but no HE."
I'm gonna puke.
CHRIS: Well, considering that they said "Best, most influential ... "
The list is for shit.
No Maxim Gorky.
No Carson McCullers.
No Lillian Hellman.
No Dashiell Hammet.
No Ezra Pound (He may have been an ass, but his infuence cannot be denied).
No Grantland Rice.
No H.L. Mencken.
No John O'Hara.
No Yukio Mishima.
No Carl Sandburg.
No Mickey Spillane.
No Studs Turkel.
No Donald E. Westlake.
No P.J. Wodehouse.
No William R. Burroughs.
No Philip K. Dick.
No Joyce Carol Oates.
No Dorothy Sayers.
No (god help us, she is influential) Susan Sontag.
And what about those who lived on the cusp of the centuries?
Twain? Shaw?
No evenness.
No validity.
Harlan might himself say that he is the LEAST of the omissions on this list--in fact, I'd dearly love to see a column or commentary or two on this (and other such lists) written by Harlan.
PETER: Yes, I'm doing my own editing--with input from a few friends--many of whom are themselves published writers (oh, the envy I feel). I took a day or two away from the book, and will set in on it tonight and likely, the entire week.
See, I'll do three run-throughs:
"That's wrong; fix it."
"That's wrong; the style jars. Fix it globally; make it consistent."
and
"That's right--but dammit; it's too pretty. Take it out. "
That way, I can catch what needs fixing, in any of a number of ways.
THEN I sit down and read it all aloud.
That'll make for fixes, too.
Then ... I query, synopsize, submit, fiddle, twiddle, and resolve.
And, no matter what, get the NEXT book off the ground.
Hoo boy.
Mr SA:
Writer's Digest, not Reader's Digest. It's the current issue. Just came out this week, I think.
I also noticed another "slight" omission - H.P. Lovecraft doesn't make the list.
Uh.... say wha'?
I'd think it was a prejudice against short story writers but Borges makes the list (which he obviously should) as do several poets.
Maybe you can _almost_ understand someone overlooking HE just out of sheer ignorance but Lovecraft? I would think he'd get serious considertion in any top 20 - how many more influential writers have there been this century? And they picked Edgar Rice Burroughs so it's not like they were discounting pulp writers either.
Surely we could have bumped Danielle Steele to make room for either Lovecraft or HE... :)
-chris
Alex, are you planning on doing all your own editing? I don't know about you, but I tend to lose a certain amount of objectivity whenever I try and edit any of my work. That's why so many typos and technical eccentricities escape my notice until AFTER I send my stories out, or even worse, after the rejection notice comes. Ah well.
Now to go work on my own writing. This one I'll hopefully finish.
All-- after my crisis of academic faith, I'm making the leap from the loathesome (but financially fruitful) computer engineering and am leaning my logic studies toward Philosophy with a math minor. I think the thing I missed most in my year of pure math and science was discourse. That, and the fact that both computer engineering and math dehumanize logic. I cannot live without discourse. And dat-course, of course. As for my future employment prospects? I have technical expertise to fall back on, should the need arise.
Of course, there is the one in a million shot that I actually finish a novel, have it taken up by the first publisher it hits, and sell the movie rights for half a million dollars... but come on, let's be realistic: quarter of a million. hehehehe.
---Peter
Chris: What issue of Reader's Digest is that list in? I have the November issue with Streep on the cover but can't find the list inside. Is is a special issue by any chance?
OTTO: No; Sturgeon was different than Trout in that he had great ideas AND his execution of them was superb. Sturgeon was unlike Vonnegut in that he a), wrote with a cynicism, but his stories were full of love whereas Vonnegut writes with a love of cynicism, and b), he got better as he got older, whereas Vonnegut ...
(I like them both, by the way)
And you might want to read VENUS ON THE HALF-SHELL, written by "Kilgore Trout"--it's pretty funny.
FINDER: I've said it before in this forum, but the novel posits that every single god, goddess, deity, or monster ever praised, worshipped, feared, or cursed is still extant, in one way or another, on earth.
(and yes; this was begun long before I'd ever heard of "Scartaris", dammit)
It's narrated by Dionysus, and has as its protagonist, his son Priapus, who is weathering troubles with his mortal wife, a radio sex therapist.
And there's a serial killer reaving his way through the "god community" ...
CHRIS: Your ear does you justice, sir; Besser was indeed a regular with Abbott and Costello, and is in a good many of their movies.
And yes; I saw that damnable list as well ... I was going down the lines, muttering, "yeah ... okay ... definitely ... should be ranked higher ... no ... no ... NO WAY ... okay ...", and a lot of "But what about--?"s came to my lips.
Lists.
Pfft!
Didn't Joe Besser also appear on the Abbot and Costello radio program frequently? I seem to remember hearing him. Was he also the "I'm a bad wittle boy" guy?
He didn't work with the Stooges, though.
The Writer's Digest issue with the "100 Greatest Writers of the Century" is out. Naturally, the first thing I did was look to see where Harlan was listed.
The answer is nowhere. I naturally assumed this was because they were prejudiced against science-fiction or fantasy authors but, no, there are quite a few listed including Octavia Butler, much to my surprise.
John Grisham and Danielle Steele make the cut but no HE.
Perhaps Harlan would prefer not to be included on a list with them. :)
Actually, I don't mean to slam Grisham - I just find the whole 'legal thriller' genre deadly boring.
I did my part in voting on the web site. I voted for HE, Carl Sagan and Hunter Thompson. Thompson was my only vote to make the list.
An odd choice - E.B. White actually made the top ten. OK, White clearly belongs on the list but would you put White up there and not Theodore Geisel? Odd.
Yeah, I know, lists like this are moronic to begin with. But I'd be lying if I said I didn't find them interesting.
-chris
I have to cop to woeful lack of knowledge of Theodore Sturgeon's work, though I've liked what little I've read ("Microcosmic God" and "And Now The News" to be exact).
Alex - Congrats on completing your manuscript. Now, just to get your juices flowing for the query process (and because I'm a nosey little beggar), what's it about?
Peter - Quality aside, I'm gratified that there's someone else who remembers Gummo.
Otto - The "Woo! Woo!" didn't ever really concern me, but the barking like a dog was very unsettling.
I'm finally back to work with my words - eight pages of short story today which, given my dubious output of a page in the three months preceeding, feels like rain after a long drought. The trick is doing some more tomorrow...
Otto, your friendly weekend research service says: Ted Sturgeon - 1918-1985, Kurt Vonnegut 1922- .
How this will help, I haven't the faintest.
P.S. The info is from Clute's 1993 Encyclopedia of Science Fiction - which I bought in hardcover for $75, in much wilder days I'll add. (God, I love reference books.)
I feel the need to defend Shemp. The most I have ever laughed at a Three Stooges short was during one where Shemp was drunk -- I swear I almost blacked out, I was howling so hard. And it was really just this one marvelous, understated moment: Shemp attempting to strike a cigarette and light a match with it. Say what you like for Curly (I personally find the "Woo! Woo! Woo!'s" frightening, for reasons I can't define and which probably stem back from a deep childhood trauma), but Shemp will always have a special place in my life.
As far as Theodore Sturgeon goes, I've got this weird bee in my bonnet that I'm far too lazy to research myself. Does anyone know how T.S. and Kurt Vonnegut stack up, chronologically? See, I keep looking at the names Theodore Sturgeon . . . Kilgore Trout . . . Theodore Sturgeon . . . Kilgore Trout . . . and wondering, is this really just a weird coincidence? (Oh, and I think "The Hurkle is a Happy Beast" is definitely one of my personal favorite Sturgeon stories.)
Alex - Congrats, and further good luck...
ALL: Not that it's really on-topic, but
YAAAAHHHHOOOOOOO!!!!!
I have FINALLY finished my novel!
Now, I just have to do the final edit--and, the part I hate and fear: Start writing query letters and synopses to submit to agents.
(and I have to write Harlan, to getb permission to use a quote of his as an epigram at the book's beginning)
Oh; just so people aren't toatally confused by what Peter said: The Shemp of which he speaks is an in-joke among the Michigan Mafia of Sam Raimi, his brother, also a director, Bruce Campbell, and a few others.
In the credits of their movies, you will sometimes see the credit for "Fake Shemp".
This comes from Stooges lore.
When Shemp Howard died, he left the Stooges with quite a few unfinished shorts. To save the shorts, they went ahead and finished them anyway, with a rather obvious stand-in. You can usually tell, because said stand-in's generally running around, his face covered with his hands, yelling for Moe. The restof the time, he's shot from the back.
The Raimis, et al., would credit their friends who served as doubles, extras, what have you, as "Fake Shemps"--in fact, they started using the name as an all-inclusive verb--"What have you been up to?" "Oh, just shemping around." "I have to shemp this over to the film school>"--that sort of thing.
An, to whomever it was who slammed Joe Besser and Curly Joe DeRita--Besser was a great comedic character actor, whose effeminate "Oh, YOU!" became a catchphrase; watch Warner Brothers cartoons and you'll see a lot of Besser hommages.
But you're right; he just wasn't that great as a Stooge.
(I'm still so jazzed--I'm DONE!!!)
BARNEY: AAARRRRGH!!! Harlan was in Jersey last night, and me not knowing it here in Philly ...
Ah, well; at least I got a couple thousand words in on MY novel--which, it looks, may be finished sometime this week, as opposed to in a year that DOESN'T begin with a "1" ...
Mr. SA: Yes, Sturgeon was a master. It's always annoyed me that people like Sturgeon and Bester and a whole lot of other amazing talents never even got the grudging respect that the literary world gives Bradbury, Harlan, Clarke, and le Guin. Ah, well.
Anyway.
I was introduced to Ted Sturgeon's work through his novels: GODBODY (which should be thought of as the flip side of STRANGER IN A STRANGE LAND), THE DREAMING JEWELS, MORE THAN HUMAN. Seek them out; you won't be disappointed.
As for what I think are his best short stories?
One that has always been a favorite of mine is "The [Widget], the [Wadget], and Boff"--in my collection, it can be found in--lemmesee ... a great 1959 two volume set edited by Anthony Boucher called A TREASURY OF GREAT SCIENCE FICTION--uniformly excellent stuff in that. An easier place to find the story is half of a book (Tor Double No. 9) published in '89--Asimov's "The Ugly Little Boy" is in the front.
Another great one is "Slow Sculpture"--that's in a couple "Best of ..." books from the Seventies; I have it in STURGEON IS ALIVE AND WELL.
Be honest, ANY Sturgeon story is a jewel--I'd recommend you pick up one of the books that have just recently come out: KILLDOZER: THE COLLECTED SHORT WORK OF THEDORE STURGEON. I think it's up to Volume Four.
Enjoy!
I'm showing my youth here, but when I think of Shemp, I don't think of the Three Stooges. I think of Sam Raimi movies. And as far as I'm concerned there were only three Marx Brothers. Zeppo and Gummo just weren't very funny. Yes, I know that makes me some sort of philistine.
By the way, I too have put up a web site. It is more of an extension of my ego, and would only be of interest to people for the sake of morbid curiousity, but it's there. Besides, it lets me play with graphic design (of which I design all of my own). The content is incidental. (and Jim, I'd like your URL but I'm too lazy to email) Mine is at home.pacbell.net/posul/
that is if any one is interested.
---Peter
Xanadu:
I've got a copy of the same book you mentioned--coincidently in approximately the same degree of decay as yours. The tattered cover finally gave up the ghost during my last plane trip.
What perked my interest to post was the mention of this book. It kind of got me started in reading sci-fi short stories years ago, but my tastes have never evolved into the more modern stuff. I'm still captivated by the imagination and the craft that many of the early masters demonstrated way back when. Is it because they were pioneering a genre and there more ideas to explore that hadn't been "done to death," or was it because we knew so much less about the physical universe, and more speculation about the nature of things was possible? I don't know what it is, but I never get tired of reading those old stories about (civilized) life on Mars, even though I know with today's scientific evidence that it probably didn't happen. Am I just weird, nostalgic or "other"? I'd be curious to see what others say on the subject.
BTW, "Microcosmic God" is fabulous...and just to throw in my obligatory "Simpsons" reference, you may remember they reprised that story (in part) during one of the Halloween episodes.
Corey
(who is impressed with everyone's
expansive knowledge of the Three Stooges
and breakfast cereal icons of yesteryear)
Re: Stooges - I'll take Iggy.
I'm baaaack. After about a month with no computer to speak of I get back on, only to find that Rick had his lifted. ARRGGHHH! Oh man, that sucks. Having had all manner of media storage devices stolen over the years I've come to fantasize about scenarios where I could just pay a ransom. Hell, I'd send them a thank you note [with money] if they'd just pop the tape or download the files. Sociopaths should give scholar squirrels a break. Yeah, that'll happen.
Well, I was in Jersey last night and Harlan was pretty much his usual self. Terrorizing college kids, mocking arrogant stupidity, and having dustups with the local police in the dead of a New Jersey evening. Same old same old. Many of the usual suspects were there. Hello Tim, Kevin, Jeff, Cliff, etc. I think I can safely say we were all exhausted. Harlan's tank was definitely on E by 11:30 last night. He had done classes and signings before we got there. Susan was her usual perky self but I'm beginning to think Susan could be perky in situations like the Alamo. Many of us had 2-5 hour drives ahead of us when we left so I just hope we all made it. I'm beginning to wonder what the whole Ellison experiance would be like if you removed the element of mandatory sleep deprivation. Well, I'm off to a half-day and then about 10 hours of sleep. Mmmmmmm...sleeeeeeep.
Mr. SA - I love "Microcosmic God", I have it in a collection called - Science Fiction Hall of Fame - The Greatest Sience Fiction Stories of all Time, Robert Silverberg, ed.
It is, without question, the single volume ALL science fiction bookshelves should have on them. I cannot recommend it enough. It was my first introduction to some of the older luminaries of the field. I have dog-eared my copy so badly it has been tape repaired twice - go out, get it, you will not be disappointed.
All - my apologies if the frippery of my previous posts has turned you all off - it ends here... for now... :)
Xan
I just started reading Theodore Sturgeon and was wondering what you guys thought were his best short stories. I just finished "The Ultimate Egoist" and it was fantastic. I am really looking forward to your responses.
OK, my finger slipped... I meant to type 1973... really... honest... DON'T LOOK AT ME IN THAT TONE OF VOICE.
And yes, I am familiar with the two monsters you mention, but they truly were supporting characters.
But just for fun - I would suggest Ben Affleck as the Count, the enimitable Keanu Reeves as FrankenBerry, and as my personal favorite, good ole Boo - James Earl Jones.... (Hey the choice is bold...)
P.S. Does anyone else also recall Sir Grapefellow and Baron Von RedBerry...?
Xanadu - I make no value judgement in Stooge quality; I'm simply saying that with the man on the street, Curly was a probable choice to fill in the blank: "Larry, Moe and---" You went with the less obvious, though chronologically correct, choice. Bygones. Your Batman argument, though, is apples and oranges. With today's proliferation of popular film adaptations of popular television series (and this is an important distinction - with non-popular film adaptations, of which there are many, the original series performers retain their distinction) the prevailing answer is usually a question: In the movie, or on TV? In the case of Schumacher's Batman, the question might also be "Which time?"
Oh, and alluding to shoddy research, as you did earlier - shame, shame. Boo-Berry didn't appear until 1973. But for a guess, you were pretty darn close. C+ And since we're building an ensemble cast, why not pull in the other two General Mills creatures, the maligned and forgotten Fruit Brute and Yummy Mummy? (I see that look on your face - would I snowjob you on this?)
Chris - Thank you. Shemp was a pretty good Stooge.
Finder - "Producer-like grasp of group character dynamics"? How many producers you know would actually go back to the original source material, rather than the populist adaption of an earlier era? (No offense, Curly) If you ask people 30 years old and up who played Batman and Robin - most would mention Burt Ward and Adam West. Does this mean that Joel Schumacher is right in his choice of direction for the current movie franchise? Thought so...
So I stand by my original statement.... Anybody who would make a "Count Chocula and FrankenBerry: The Movie" and ignore the powerful performance of the original Boo-Berry in their second short from 1972, has GOT to have rocks in their head. 8P
P.S. And it's good to see that you study, crib notes or not... :)
I came here hoping you'd have more information about the Harlan Ellison's Matrix story, but I didn't see anything so I figured I'd tell you about it. On the Official "Matrix" site, http://www.whatisthematrix.com, they have a comics page that has several stories written by scifi/fantasy authors and drawn by comic artists that take place in the universe of "The Matrix". Many of them are incredible. On the introduction page they mention that Harlan Ellison has signed on to write a short story for the site. It hasn't happened yet, but the site mentions that they are preparing for a second wave of stories. Perhaps Harlan's will be one of them. Stay Tuned!!!!
Thanks for the tip on Dan Simmons. Until next time. . .
Both Curly and Shemp were great Stooges.
Now Joe Besser and Curly Joe DeRita, on the other hand...
One of my greatest regrets in comic book collecting is that all the photo covers of Gold Key Stooge comics have Curly Joe on the cover. *bleh*
-chris
Whoops! Didn't edit out all my crib notes. Must have gotten distracted by that "Got Milk?" commercial that was just on. The shame of it all...
ACTUALLY, Xanadu m'boy, you're right, more or less: in their vaudeville days, in addition to being Stooges (of which there were many groups using the name on the circuit, causing Columbia no end of trouble when they first starting making Stooge shorts) Moe, Larry and Shemp were part of the act "Ted Healy and his Three Southern Gentlemen"; Shemp left the act and Curly replaced him in 1932, before they ever made their first short for Columbia. Or, as we say back in Gibsonville, "No study."
But let's be honest - when asked to name the Three Stooges, how many people conjure up Shemp before Curly? Which only makes me worry more about your character dynamic choices in relation to public tastes... :)
Curly took his place in 1932, before they ever made their first Columbia
short.
Finder - Curly was the movie addition to the Stooges, Shemp was the original third stooge from their vaudville days... Please, if you're gonna pick a nit, please do the research... :)
Jim - the email is: DSimSHRIKE@aol.com, you're welcome.
Hey, ho, folks, on another topic, reaaaaally quick: Does anyone know what the e-mail for Dan Simmons is? I had it until I wiped the old system (and forget to tag it to the file drawer). If my pathetic excuse for a memory serves it is aol. Has 'shrike' in it. If you would, aim it into my e-mail above. Thanks again. Until next time. . .
Xanadu - That you would substitute Shemp for Curly clearly indicates that you have a producer-like grasp of group character dynamics. Shemp indeed. Next thing, you'll be trying to tell me there were only four Marx Brothers...
And Boo-Berry hasn't been anything more than a supporting character for the last fifteen years...that's like throwing Scrappy Do into a starring turn...
Sheriff Buck, Finder -
What? No Boo-Berry? I'm sorry, we gotta find another writer for this project.... Obviously the current batch have no appreciation for what makes the Classic Trio work.
It's like Kirk and Spock without McCoy, or Moe and Larry sans Shemp....
The very thought sends chills down my spine....
Just when you thought you'd *finally* gotten rid of me... Nice discussion, and I'm enjoying reading it. I'm peeking out from under the of the Cone Of Silence, just to send a big *HUG* to Rick. Wish I could send your laptop and discs back instead.. :-( ..
Couldn't agree with you more Finder. Somehow, that whole "Kinder, Gentler" thing sorta worked out to be more of a Silent Selfishness, where Kindness means you couldn't get out of it (or needed the tax write-off) and Gentler means you do a Mother Theresa impression smiling, looking concerned, and using a soft tone of voice when you give someone the shaft.. and Stealing is only applicable when you're caught and convicted.. *sigh* It's as if Conscience has become that short intermission between opportunity and justification sufficient to placate morals and ethics, something to be silenced quickly so it won't get in the way of personal profit. Somehow, a re-read of Charles Dickens social commentary does NOT seem one whit dated..
As far as FanFic, accessibility, etc. thread - I quote a Kat Stevens song, "Everyone needs someone to look down on..." Or was that a Kristofferson song? The entire notion that "Art" is beyond the capabilities of the majority of people to appreciate flies in the face of the pretty universally accepted definition of Art being a form of communication. If it's not communicating, it's not good art, whatever it's form - and communicating means everyone, not just people trained in arcane paths of enlightenment to the "secrets" of the craft. I get VERY tired of the constant "unwashed masses" bashing, whether it be the artists blaming the public for not "getting" how 'great' their stuff is, or the money moguls assuming everyone else is too stupid to know a good thing when they see it unless it is packaged and PR'd the "right" way.
I don't know where Bix lives in Michigan, but I live in Michigan, too. There are apparently enough "enlightened" people living here to support a wide variety of arts from the amatuer/local community group level through the internationally recognized professional level. There are 4 bowling alleys within an hours drive from my house - there are 9 theater groups, 3 film societies, 6 museums, 12 dance troups, too many art galleries to count, and live music everywhere they serve coffee (and many places they don't), and more.. Follow the road to town Bix, that's where the good stuff is...
College? Major? huh? I took classes that looked like they'd be interesting and/or fun.. :-) .. And kept doing that until they chucked me out with a Degree, so I'd have to pay Graduate rate tuition.. Done a lot of different things since then, some even vaguely related to a few of the classes I took in College.. I didn't go to College to get a job, I went to learn things I would have a tough time learning any other place. *shrug* Hey, it worked for me..
Dunno from Writers Block. I do know that variety is the spice of life, and things that are a focus in my life at any given time tend to be replaced by new things over time. There are some things that "stick", but not usually as a focus - more like personal hygeine, something that's done on a regular basis, but not something to base your life on.
Whoa! Long catch-up post! *Cone of Silence - Down* I'll be seeing you, even if you don't see me.. ;-)
Locus has an ad for a new VanVogt collection with an HE introduction. FYI.
The Dark Horizons web site has a little blurb on Shyamalan's next film, allegedly titled "Unbreakable", for which they're reporting he's getting a cool $5M for the script (plus his director's salary, plus alleged back-end profit percentage); the site also offers a minor plot blurb, which I won't repeat for the sake of those of you who like your films as spoiler-free as possible. Aiming for start of filming in Philadelphia in April 2000. Though I'll admit, "Count Chocula and Franken Berry: The Movie" might be a pitch I could get behind, Sheriff.
Peg - You've seen my Keepers? Damn. I thought I ditched them for good after that thing at Denny's in St. Louis. Man, every time I set down roots and start a new life - er, never mind.
But seriously, I agree with you. I've been on both sides of the arguement. I lost my wallet as a college freshman. Whoever found it was kind enough to drop the pictures and the other miscellaneous contents into a campus mailbox, but kept the money and the wallet itself (brown alligator skin that I got from my grandfather - I spent two semesters watching everyone who pulled out money to see what they were carrying it in, blind wrath in my heart. Never turned up, though.). It was a low class event in my life. Fade Out.
Fade In, two years later. I was walking across campus with a friend of mine when we found a wallet in the snow - ID, credit cards, about seventy dollars in cash; never gave it a second thought: we looked up this poor guy in the student directory, found where he lived on campus, and returned it to him. The look of astonishment and his puzzled "It's all here" upon inspecting his wallet, while sad comment on the state of human affairs, was about as uplifting a thing as one could ask for on a cold day in hell, er, Binghamton. The high road is remarkably easy and profoundly rewarding sometimes - pity more people don't opt for it.
Sorry, Sherriff.
Shyamalan just sold said idea for said screenplay.
He's getting $4 mil or so for it--not counting his director's fees.
He's being rather secretive about it, but it would appear as if it's going to be another original Shyamalan-only film. I don't think he goes in for adaptations anyway ...
(and yes; he IS another Philly boy)
Hey y'all, this nifty tidbit came from today's "Science Fiction Weekly":
"The Sixth Sense writer/director M. Night Shyamalan is reportedly pitching a new supernatural film to Disney that will star Bruce Willis and Samuel L. Jackson."
Pure speculation, of course, but...could this be "Mefisto in Onyx"? Jackson still owns the rights, and, while the phrase "supernatural film" is vague as all get out, "Onyx" certainly would qualify.
It's been a couple decades since we've had a good HE film adaptation. I'd ask Rick to see if HE can confirm/deny, but from what I understand, authors aren't often kept well-informed about the status of Hollywood adaptations of their work. (You should hear Ray Bradbury speak on his treatment at the hands of Mel Gibson and co. with their "Fahrenheit 451" project.)
Again, this is just a fan wondering and hoping. Please take it as such. Do not report this as a "rumor." I do not wish to read a blurb in next week's "Entertainment Weekly" announcing Disney and M. Night Shyamalan's "Mefisto in Onyx" if in fact the project is a feature film of "Count Chocula and Franken Berry."
Jim, I don't think Rick minds a handy url or two, but as I recall, that Cerberus of a program he set up to run this joint in his absence doesn't like HTML tags.
There's my email. Would you kindly send your URL along? Please? Pretty please? With treacle and onions? Hmm??????
What humility? What ego? What looks? Moi? Nah. The short is, as I recall, Rick gets pink and cranky and makes Unca Harlan look like Mother Teresa if you even THINK to post urls here. Soooo. . .e-mail is da word for now. Sorry to hear about the laptop, Rick. I'm still waiting on the replacement DVD/CD-rom drive for mine.
Until next time. . .
Most odd. (Oh, and hi all, by the way.) This just arrived from Eyes@Amazon. Did someone mistype, and this is Volume 5 (finally), or has White Wolf decided just to skip V5 entirely and continue? (The artist is correct for Volume 6; I believe Jill Baumann was scheduled for Volume 5.)
"Edgeworks : The Collected Ellison (Volume 6)"
by
Harlan Ellison, John Snyder
List: $22.99 -- Our Price: $16.09 -- You Save: $6.90 (30%)
Subjects: Science Fiction; Fiction - Science Fiction; Fiction;
Science Fiction - General; Short Stories (single author)
Publisher: White Wolf Publishing Inc.
Volume 6Binding: Hardcover
Expected publication date: October 1999
ISBN: 1565049659
URL: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1565049659/ref=s_e
Rick, I'm so sorry to hear about your laptop.
I know what's like to do something like that on a much smaller scale. I left the disks for my undergrad senior project in a campus computer room - needless to say they were long gone when I went back to look. And while it wasn't a lot of money's worth, it *WAS* a lot of time and effort and it really ticked me off that someone took them.
I personally don't believe in the finder's keepers argument. If you take something that doesn't belong to you, knowing it doesn't belong to you, without making effort to return it to it's owner (if possible), then you are stealing. Period. Even when you leave something that way, it's still a theft (unless some amazingly kind soul turns it in to the police, highly unlikely).
So you have my empathy and sympathy. I'm sure we kind webderlanders would be happy to help if we can, just let us know. (along with being patient about updates of course...)
Peg
Well, my wife left my laptop with all CDs and programs on board on the sidewalk in Atlanta. So the stuff that was going up today has been delayed until I can retype a bunch of stuff on my desktop system and generally recover from this devastating blow. Sorry to disappoint, believe me no one is less happy about this than I...
I care, but I'm about ready to eject from the Web and don't wish to hit my mail. Stop feigning humility Hess, and post a URL already! kiss, kiss---keegan.
Well, after a reasonable period of time away I return and find the more things change the more they stay the same: the snobs and self-appointed elitists continue to piss and whine about every little goddamn thing. (Well? SOMEBODY has to be in charge or bitching and moaning. Kudos.)
Oh, yeah. I have a web site (sorta) now. Drop me a line if it matters. Until next time. . .
Rick -
Just a quick note to see how Harlan and Susan fared during last night's quake... when you now, of course....
It says email, so if anyone wants to email this guy and tell him that the title is "Silent in Gehenna," and appears in the collection APPROACHING OBLIVION, go right ahead.
---Peter
I am looking for the name and location (ie. collection name)
of a Harlan Ellison story I read about 20 years ago. This
story was set in a corporate/facist near future, and followed
a radical who was trying to foment rebellion/revolution.
About 2/3's of the way into the story, he is kidnapped by
aliens who imprison him in a tower overlooking a large
city. In this tower he preaches revolution to the masses
of slaves below. Whenever they are in earshot, the masters
beat themselves, but as soon as they move away they again
beat their slaves.
Please e-mail your responses to
david.cruzuribe@mail.trincoll.edu.
I would like to use this story to make a point in a
seminar.
David Cruz-Uribe, SFO
Trinity College
Hartford, CT
ALL: Recommended reading, anything by recent Nobel Prize winner Gunter Grass (insert your own umlaut over his name and the word). If you're partial to mostly fantastic fiction, Grass fits in to this category. In fact, like Garcia-Marquez and Borges, Grass was writing what is now termed magical realism way before it was popular. Most people know of THE TIN DRUM (in which Oscar M., a child that never grows old, navigates the dangers of WWII); but you may not be aware of THE FLOUNDER or THE RAT (in which co-narrators, who are animals, play a big part), or THE MEETING AT TELGTE (an "alternative historical" novel involving various poets and writers from Germany's history). To give it all a "bluesky" description, Grass is sort of a mix between John Irving (who was influenced by him) and Jorge Luis Borges. His latest, MY CENTURY, uses a structure similar to Ellison's "The Pale Silver Dollar of the Moon Pays Its Way and Makes Change," inserting autobiographical portions of the authors life into stories and vignettes which take place between 1910 and 1999 (and there are fantastical elements as well...like a fictional character, who resembles the author's dead mother, breaking down the "fourth wall," etc., etc.). Good stuff. Grass is definitely one of the more under-rated writers of the 20th Century -- at least he was. Out here, DTS.
I think part of the problem is that simply because of the age of the work, Shakespeare has been elevated within academic circles to that golden-circle seating known as "classic". Unfortunately, when something is placed on that pedestal, it earns a very highbrow shadow that sends a lot of people running. Is it too cultured? Balderdash. A lot of it has gotten a bad reputation simply because of its good reputation. I read my first Shakespeare play in an English textbook in Junior High. Saw my first performance then, too ("A Midsummer Night's Dream") and I've loved both reading and watching his work performed ever since (having the Shakespeare Theater in DC is a big plus for this). And the masses can be drawn into watching the man's work today, and enjoying it - the theaters are full of him. I liked Mel Gibson as Hamlet. I liked Kenneth Branaugh as Hamlet too. Different flavors and takes on the character and the story, but both entertaining in their way. I'd bet if you took an audience and told them they were going to see a movie with intrigue, suspense, ghosts, swordplay, humor, romance, and a tragic ending, and DIDN'T tell them it was Shakespeare, they'd eat it up. I think it's all a matter of perception and representation of the work.
As for the dumbing-down of Chaucer - and probably Homer, Dante, Ovid, and any number of other authors who wrote with a style now considered by publishers to be outdated and too difficult to sell to the masses without "clarifying" the text for the modern reader - that's a bigger kettle of fish. I recently found and have been reading a translation of Aesop's fables done in the early 1800s (containing the Latin and English text side by side - very cool little book), and you can't believe how those have been slurred, blurred and evolved through the centuries. It's a fascinating read, knowing how the fables play out today. I understand the commercial and the realistic reasons for, say, simplifying Chaucer for the reader. He's by no means an easy read, but spins some fine yarns. Still, I don't agree with the concept.
Peg - I'd love a new book announcement, but if I was a gambling man I'd bet that he's signing in conjunction with the audio release that was just done. More than likely if a new book was in the pipe, we'd have already heard about it (it's always seemed like Harlan give a good advance notice that helps build word of mouth). Of course, no one would be happier than me if HE was scribbling his name beneath the words "Blood's A Rover - A Novel By Harlan Ellison" on a title page later this month. I just don't see it in the cards.
Don't worry, Maggie. I don't take it personally.
Yes, I agree that Shakesepare and Chaucer were the Sidney Sheldons of their day. But the point I didn't make is that the language is so colorful, and so different from what we have now, that to truly appreciate it beyond face value means that you have to know how to read it. I, also, had Shakespeare courses in college and enjoyed them, but let's just say that a good portion of Michigan isn't exactly a playground for the literate-minded. The people that I grew up with thought going bowling, playing bingo and hitting the bars was a great night out. Forget about sitting home and reading, or going to a play. A movie qualified as an intellectual experience.
The thing is, most people won't pick up these works unless they've been simplified. It's very difficult to find an original translation of Chaucer; most of the copies on the shelves have been "cleaned up," or modernized. Take a look around bookstores, and you'll see what I mean.
You're definitely right about Shakespeare being for the masses. In the 19th century, his plays were the most popular theatrical productions all across the American frontier. And you've only got to read the opening lines of Romeo and Juliet with all those (nearly) idiotic puns about coal and colliers--not to mention the phallic references--to know that this wasn't Oxford fare. -- Billy D.
*WYLIE*: Your movie description does sound like "To Sir, With Love" -- but there was a Portier/Cosby movie (circa 1973?) called "Do It Again" if memory serves (and lately, it ain't been serving much, not even leftovers). -- Billy D.
Shakespeare, et. al. - I'd like to make a distinction.
I think Maggie is right, but I'd put the vocabulary a bit different. I think anyone can *enjoy* Shakespeare. It was written for the masses, as entertainment. Now, to dissect it and analyze it, look for hidden meanings, deep truths, even the do numericial breakdowns of the rhyme, rhythym and meter (is that redundant?) is a bit more of a challenge. But I think *anyone* can watch it and enjoy the play as much as people enjoy movies and TV and plays today (probably more so - the writing was better and probably the acting, too!)
[and another thing, for those of you who want more Shakespeare in your life, go to the Oregon Shakespeare festival, it's fab, we go every year and have a great time, the acting is superior, the productions are well done and frequently inventive, just can't say enough for it]
Ta Peg
Bix - please don't take what I am about to say personally, because it is not meant that way. You have just touched a rather sore spot with me.
Shakespeare and Chaucer are not highbrow. They are not meant for the highly educated and I am just sick and tired of this whole weird crap that believes that an ability to enjoy Shakespeare is an indication of a superior mind or somesuch. Peeves me no end. I majored in theatre and I love Shakespeare and it is not, and let me repeat this for those in the oxygen seats, not difficult. When I was in college, I used to watch the BBC Shakespeare productions. My 5 year old sister would sit and watch them with me. I really didn't think that she would sit with me very long. I figured she'd sit for a few minutes and then get bored and give up. Didn't happen. She would get very involved in what was happening on the screen. Totally enthralled. She laughed and when I asked her what was going on, she had a very strong grasp on the action. Fast foward to 12 years of public school later. That same sister hates Shakespeare now. She has told me repeatedly that she just isn't smart enough to understand it. Bull crap. I'll tell you what I've told her over and over until I'm just purple in the face - Shakespeare was written for the masses. Shakespeare is taught in our public schools as something high brow and difficult and we teach our children to hate something that is natural and easy for them. Bull crap. Yes, Shakespeare is quite possibly the most brilliant writer the English language has ever known. Why is he up for most brilliant? Because he used the language to communicate. He wrote plays to be performed and every time I hear this same wretchedly programed opinion on Shakespeare, it makes me want to rush right out and start teaching it.
As for Chaucer - ditto.
Shakespeare and Chaucer were the Sidney Sheldons of their day. That they also happened to be brilliant writers is their gift to us. Read the stuff out loud and stop getting so wrapped up in what your teacher told you.
Heads up - just saw this on the Dangerous Visions website (updated Oct. 9 so info is recent).
Harlan Ellison will be doing a signing from 2 - 4 pm on October 30th. No other info was provided. Here's the link:
http://www.readsf.com/events.html
Cheers...... Peg
PS - does this mean the momentous announcement prophecied by our kind webderleader might just be an impending book release...?? (this is how internet rumors get started....)
P.P.S And if it is Edgeworks 5, would you market that under non-fiction?? (just out of curiousity that is. I mean really, the book doesn't have any speculative fiction, fantasy, western, mystery, etc., in it, so how could a bookstore *live* with themselves unless they market it as non-fiction!)
Anyone see THE OUTER LIMITS lately? Is it just mean or has the show really gone down the toilet? Dumb, with a capital D. And isn't HE's "Human Operators" supposed to be aired some time this season, or has he smartened up and no way?
Yes, an enlightened group! Fan fic IS nothing more than a lark, something to keep the synapses from cooling down when we're surrounded by drab reality and the pressures of everyday life. It's good to hear, I've got to tell you. People either get rabid about the existance of the stuff ("Ban all amateur efforts! Toss them into the well of ineptitude and be done with them!") or view fan fiction as the ultimate in literature ("Isn't Angel so dreamy?"). Ack.
And you're right, it's brain candy. So is television, cable, videos and the whole home entertainment system idea. So is going to the movies. So is listening to almost everything on the radio. It's not easy for the average person to strive for greater things in their life, or even worth it, in some cases. Few people improve their education to the level where they can enjoy Shakespeare and Chaucer, relish in the joys of Bach and Beethoven, or be knowledgeable enough about to analyze his work. These higher-level media are often "dumbed down" (Cliff's Notes), picked apart for the "juicy" tidbits (a kiss planted on a woman's arse), or made popular simply by mass distribution (I've got a Monet calendar on my desk, each day listing tidbits about his life and work. Special).
Rather than raising the I.Q. of John Q. Public to appreciate foreign works in their own translation, or to seek out the deeper meanings in a piece of work, it takes less effort to drag things down to the common level. Sad, eh?
Could have been, Peg. I'll look it up in my Videohound. Thanks for giving me a place to start. G'night!
Wylie - was it "To Sir, With Love" (not that I've seen the movie but the plot description fits...)
Hi all. I used to read star trek novels and still own most of them, some are favorites. I never, however, mistook them for really good books. They were just an extension of the tv show, which I was very fond of once. Lots of different writers write teleplays for star trek and the books are just the same thin brain candy. My understanding was that most of the authors of said books felt the same way--writing them simply to get more of a fix when they had seen every episode and new ones were slow in coming. I think fan fiction writing is masterbation--healthy, but you wouldn't want to devote your life to it. Or, to quote Sidney Poitier from a movie made long ago, "It makes you feel good, but it doesn't produce life." (Anyone know what movie that was? I watched it as a kid and those words have stayed with me all these years. He played a teacher of tough kids and I believe Bill Cosby was in it as well.) Have I beat the topic to death now? I always come in late . . .
Hmmm. Fan-fic as a way to hone craft. Kinda reminds me of Jaimie Abersold play along records. Useful to an extent, but useless in the long run because in the real world, the cats in the rhythm section often play the unanticipated......
I don't quite agree with the demonization of fan fiction.
I think fan fiction can be an excellent way to polish some of your skills as a writer. You're right, it is a shortcut. So what?
You borrow another world and other characters so that you don't have to dissipate your energy on that particular aspect of creation. Instead, you can work on your descriptive abilities and your characterization techniques.
I don't think it's any different than when a baseball team has fielding practice. They're not playing the entire game - they're eliminating other element to focus on one and do their best to perfect it.
I wouldn't want to write fan fiction as my main body of work but I believe a writer can benefit greatly from the exercise.
-chris
Rick! Such imagery! I now and forever have an image of some pimply fanboy trying to stick his hand up Captain Kirk's ass. That is not a pleasant image, to say the least. Brilliantly effective, but unpleasant nonetheless. But you're right. It is a shortcut. It is someone saying "I'm not going to take to time nor the initiative to create memorable, interesting, and fully fleshed out characters to flourish in the world of my imagining. I'd rather take the shadows of someone else's world and characters, and place them in neat little situations like I did with my GI Joe action figures when I was six."
And really, it is the difference between someone who molds a clay model of a dinosaur and the guy who goes to Toys B Expensive and buys the complete set of Jurassic Park Thunder Lizards complete with neutron glyder ray and kung-fu claw grip.
I just finished reading THE STRANGER by Albert Camus. Great book, even if I found some of the characters to be completely despicable. I recommend it without reservation.
---Peter
Bix,
I see one problem with your path to readership. I don't think people discover writer's via the fan fiction on the web, or even in hardcopy.
Those authors I enjoy and whose work I seek generally weren't discovered via shared universe /fan fiction work. There's only been a couple I came to know from that route (ashamedly, from the Star Wars books - my guilty pleasure). I don't even read web-based fan fiction - I have too many other things piling up on my bookshelf.
Personally, I usually come to know authors via short stories or book recommendations from friends or reviewers in SF/F type periodicals. Like this board, where many a good nod is made. If I buy a shared character/setting book, it's typically because I know the "host" author (i.e., Clarke, Niven, Asimov) and possibly the guest author.
Nothing to get too worked up about, just thought you'd like one reader's view (and I am not a writer).
Peg
Okay, time for me to chime in with my thoughts on writings and fan-fiction.
On writing: most people need to stop worrying about whether or not they are "writers" and just write - or don't write. I for one am certainly not happy with my expertise in the craft -- that's one reason I'm going back to school full time next spring -- but while I don't harbor any illusions about the quality of my work that does not mean when I am producing something I do not think I am a "writer" or that I am not producing "writing".
If you aren't comfortable with the results of your art, whatever that art may be, you should study the art and the work of others and above all else PRACTICE. But don't let that stop you from calling yourself a writer or poet or singer or dancer if that's how you see yourself.
On fan-fiction: I don't find fan fiction to be of any lesser quality than any other forms of amateur fiction you can find out there. It's all mainly crap, and if it were not someone, somewhere would be buying it. I hate to burst any bubbles, but there is this notion that there are great works of literature out there, sterling examples of craftmanship that touch the heart, masterworks that use language as Da Vinci used marble; and that these remain unsold and unseen because of crass and petty agents and editors and publishers. This notion is largely a myth. It is a delusion that enables those whose work languishes on web pages and Usenet groups to think that their work is underappreciated rather than simply mediocre.
Yes, it is hard to sell writing - but good writing DOES sell. It is no different from any other product or service - while the market may be far from perfect the fact that someone will pay you to do something is the best indication you have that you do it well. I don't want to hear how hard it is to get published or how it's too expensive to submit stuff. I don't care to hear the odds. If you have the talent and the craft and the will, you will find a way to be heard.
Perhaps fan fiction gets an especially bad rap because it often involves a theft of imagination. It's a shortcut - you don't have to describe your protagonist or your settings because everyone who reads your work KNOWS what Luke Skywalker looks like or how the command deck of Babylon 5 is laid out. So many of these stories read like an expanded outline because the author hasn't bothered to breathe life into the characters. I don't have any use for this stuff - it's like listening to a co-worker telling you what happened on last night's "ER".
The original work of fiction represents the Writer as Professional. Fan fiction represents the Writer as Puppeteer - sticking a hand up the ass of someone else's creation and trying to make it talk.
I suppose coming uninvited into a fictional world and performing this sort of literary prostate examination on its characters is a good way to practice one's writing and get feedback on it. But let's not try to make it any more noble or any less ghoulish than it really is, okay?
Read Chandler and Hemingway and learn how to describe people. Practice your art however you please and try to touch others with your vision and your words. But please don't come into my house and tell me you might be an unrepresented Dostoyevski on the basis of your making Captian Kirk's lips flap.
Alex - beautifully put. I don't know that my stories will ever get beyond where they are now. I like to think that someday, I'll be able to walk into a book store and see my name on a book cover, but if that doesn't happen, I won't die of it. I do know that I need my stories, and that the way my life is now, I feel them rattling around in my brain. They're just moving too quickly for my tired out brain to catch right now. I'm working to change that because I want them back. Small, worthless though they be in the commercial world, they're still mine and I will fight for them with all that's in me.
As for fan fiction - other than authorized stuff - ie MZB's collections, etc., I don't read it. I have enjoyed some of the shared world anthologies - Medea, Harlan's World springs to mind . I don't read Star Trek or Star Wars or any other kind of fiction like that either.
Speaking of MZB - I was saddened at her passing. I always thought that she was great person. She was definitely on the short list of people I would be willing to stand in line to meet. I was rather shocked and apalled that her passing didn't make the paper here until several days after her death and that it didn't seem to even blip on the radar nationally.
So, back to the job hunt. There has to be a job that will get me out of the 4 hour commute somewhere!
Well, I'm glad to have raised a topic of interest and generated another line of conversation from the board. Everyone has expressed a clear opinion on the matter of fan fiction, with what appears to be a mostly negative stance.
However, I don't believe that anyone is aware of the vast amount of fan fiction now available on the Internet-- not just "Babylon 5," but everything from "Buffy" to "World Wrestling Federation" pseudo-adventures. This form of communication has opened a door and spawned would-be writers across the world to indulge in their favorite fantasies. No, it's not Shakespeare or even HE-quality work, but it has flooded the net and it is, most definitely, "out there." But copywrights DON'T apply to fan fiction unless sales are involved, and within that limit, everyone has free license to do as they please.
To an extent, I agree it is a waste to use another writer's characters to put together what is, for the most part, a collection of downright bad fiction. I'm not saying that what I wrote is any better than anyone else's, either.
Let me ask you this, however: is a television scriptwriter, or a serial author, that much less of a writer? When a person does a weekly sitcom or drama, are they just wanna-be writers because they're taking someone else's characters as inspiration? When someone cranks out ten or fifteen "Star Trek" or "Star Wars" books and earns a living through that, does that make them less of a creative person? They could very well be producing excellent stories on their own, with their own characters and situations.
But who would care? The majority of readers and television viewers don't want "new" adventures, they want to slip into stories with familiar names and faces. It's sad, but true. Americans have an uncreative majority; just look at all the copycat school shootings that have gone on over the past few years. We can't even come up with creative ways to kill each other.
From a writer's standpoint, I have to say that I have no shame or embarrassment in the works that I've created with others' characters, for several reasons. I always include an equal amount of my own characters at the same time, to balance off the familiar ones, as well as developing any under-developed characters. Also, it's something to at least keep the mental ball rolling, to keep my brain from locking up and either producing no work at all or stagnant pieces with no real meat to them. Third, it's a way to get things read. People will read about the familiar, but they won't give a damn about my latest novel.
Last of all, because I am unrepresented (hell, I can't even afford the postage to send agents my work, much less print out things, and all the computers I work off are someone else's), no one cares about what I have to say in my short stories and novels. What I've come up with is unmarketable, because I'm unknown. The miracle story presented on television, where a publishing agent randomly picked up the first "Harry Potter" book, is an exception to the rule; all my efforts would no doubt be tossed into a slush pile and forgotten... provided I could even find the cash to toss my work into the fray, which I can't.
Hence my frustration at the writing profession. If the only way that people will read anything I write is to use well-known characters, so be it. I'll do that, because it keeps my fires burning-- and it's a far more tragic thing to let a gift die than to restrict it to one avenue of existance.
Hmm. Lotsa stuff to catch up on.
On the subject of fanfic:
It's a shame and a waste. Oh, it's great when little Johnny and his barefaced boy scout pals make up rousing tales of their heroes, tearing about the house to make new tales for old heroes, but when "adults" do it, it's a horrific waste of time and talent.
Oh, sure; anything that brings enjoyment is a good thing, but I'll stick with Polonius' advice: "And above all, to thine own sense be true."
I could no more write stories of characters other people have created than I would cook in their kitchens unsolicited. For this reason, I stay away from media-based or "sharecropped" work, even though it may be by the likes of Peter David, Vonda McIntyre, W.T. Quick, Ann C. Crispin, David Gerrold, and all the other writers whose work I like who do media books. I'll begrudge them their work not at all, but I won't buy work that isn't wholly THEIRS, in idea and in ownership.
(there are a few exceptions: Nicholas Meyer's Sherlock Holmes stories, Robert Parker's Philip Marlowe books Philip Jose Farmer's Tarzan--but don't ask me why these don't offend me)
Fanfic, when bad, is simply horrible, proving that the acme of someone's ambition should be just that: Working at the Acme.
When good, it's heartbreaking; the talent that writes so beautifully should have taken the time to make up its own characters--and there's the "no-return-on-the-investment-save-a-chuckle factor, as well ...)
That reminds me: For a similar view--and much enjoyment, check out Sharyn McCrumb's two sf fandom mysteries--BIMBOS OF THE DEATH SUN and ZOMBIES OF THE GENE POOL. You'll laugh; you'll cry; you'll recognize a lot of friends ...
PETER: I did go to school for what I wanted (print journalism), but I put far too much credence in the stupidities of both myself and a few of my instructors, and VERY foolishly "dematriculated", allowing anger to rule the day.
TODD: Thanks for the heads-up. I e-mail George Scithers every now and again anyway (he posts to a few newsgroups in which I'm active); I might as well ask him (and he's also on the short list of agents I want to solicit when I'm FINALLY finished my novel).
Which brings me to the other big item: Writer's block.
Until just recently, my .sig file was something Edmund Wilson said to Lillian Hellman when she was one day complaining about her own writer's block, "Foolishness. A writer writes. That's all there is to it."
I had this as my signature file because I was trying oh-so-very hard to cleave to it.
Didn't work.
Even tonight, I sat staring at the screen for what seemed like the millionth time, with nothing to show for it. I haven't actually written since going on vacation at the end of July.
Oh; I've edited, plotted, researched and brainstormed--but not one new word has made it onto the screen.
That said, here's what I have to tell you, so listen up while I school you a mite:
There is no such thing as writer's block.
(Nor is there the broad, sweeping version, intimating that ALL scriveners must so suffer the pangs of dry pens on the mental scratchpad: "writers' block".)
Nope; no such animal.
What there are instead are myriad: writer's unreadiness, writer's downtime, writer's recharge, writer's apathy, and, most common of all, writer's fear.
That last is what I wear around my neck like an albatross. The fear that what next flows from my fingers won't be as good as what came before, the fear that what came before was in itself the height of dreckishness, fear of rejection once the work is finished, fear of success now and failure ever after, fear of the unfamiliar, fear that if I end up writing shit for the next chapter, it'll so infuriate and/or disillusion me that I'll give up on the work entirely, fear of losing the safety of being untested, unproven, and unpublished, fear of anything and everything under the sun.
Almost all of these are irrational. Almost all of these, even when unconsciously felt, I recognize when I start feeling them.
Yet it has taken me so long to get out from under their curse.
The solitary nature of writing itself, you see, like Goya said of the sleep of reason, breeds monsters.
Great carrion-breath dragons and hydrae pinwheel about in the murk of my brain, working doubletime to sabotage the work I do, and though my conscious mind rejects these bugaboos, it's all too easy to shamble off for a snack, a chat, a quick look at a book, website or newsgroup.
But I will let them have no more dominion over me; will not allow five years of work go down the tubes just because one final chapter refuses to come easily.
I will write.
God help me, I will write until my eyes grow red with effort; until my fingernails crack on the keys, until I can wring no more words from this feeble, febrile brain.
Because I deserve it.
I'm good enough.
And triumph WILL be mine.
(sorry for the overly lyrical style of this post--it comes from working to get inside my narrator, who thinks in a more archaic style than you or I.)
Fan fiction is a violation of copyright. However, each show handles the issue differently.
Blake's 7 creator Terry Nation expressly encouraged fan fiction and I'm sure was permissive of web sites and such.
Star Trek, on the other hand, has had to crack down on such copyright violations. Part of that can be laid at the feet of a "cold-hearted corporation" but much of it is a matter of necessity. If they do not defend the copyright over the years, they can lose it. Something like this happened with James Bond and allowed the production of the film Never Say Never Again even though it wasn't an "official" Bond film.
Generally speaking, I think most authors and creators will cut fans slack as long as there is no intent to profit from the material. However, it does not have to be created for profit to be a violation of copyright.
Hey, why doesn't someone try publishing a story with Jeffty or the Harlequin and the Ticktockman as characters and see how he likes it. :)
-chris
Fan fiction, most spectacularly Kirk/Spock porn written almost exclusively by female TREK fans (frequently involving one of the characters getting hurt, and the other having to take care of the injured party in dire, isolated circumstances; eventually this leads to tender intercourse, apparently--I've yet to see any of these texts, but Joanna Russ has a great essay in her collection MAGIC MOMMAS, TREMBLING SISTERS, PURITANS AND PERVERTS), has a long tradition of trampling on copyrighted characters. While most of this material up through the '80s was distributed when at all in hardcopy fanzine form, the newsgroups now seem to be the distibution mode of choice. So, websites, authorized or not, seem not too surprising, if indeed more susceptible to lawsuit than newsgroup postings. If there is parodic intent, however, one has a cover--certainly I doubt Fox pays Damon Knight ("To Serve Man"), the estate of Jerome Bixby ("It's a GOOD Life"), or others whose stories have been the ultimate basis for SIMPSONS Hallowe'en episodes, and I also doubt Donald Barthelme's "The Joker's Greatest Triumph" (1963), which has Batman and Fredric Brown discussing the former's current career, led to any payment by the author nor THE NEW YORKER to DC Comics nor Mr. Brown, although it clearly is the hidden source of the ABC live-action camp BATMAN tv series. (Meanwhile, fan media fiction, including sexually explicit "slash" [as in the solidus between Kirk and Spock in "Kirk/Spock"] fiction, is commonly being bandied about involving, among many others, even such unlikely-to-me character sets as those from the Canadian-US production DUE SOUTH.)
I hope I missed it--when you were discussing sword and sorcery a while back, did no one really mention Jack Vance? Certainly THE DYING EARTH and THE EYE OF THE OVERWORLD (collected with other stories as CUGEL'S SAGA I think it was) are enough by themselves to put Vance second only to Fritz Leiber in this field (Glen Cook at his best in this mode often reflects both Vance and Leiber). Joanna Russ (who borrows Leiber's characters at times) did some good work with her Alyx stories, Michael Shea did an authorized sequel to Vance's OVERWORLD (back when such things were rarer) and went on to other good work, and I also hope I simply missed the references to Karl Edward Wagner, who not only did the best Howard-character sequels, but did even better work with his own Kane (who resembles Solomon Kane only in his grimness). I'm glad to see someone cited A A Attanasio, whose historical fantasies are too little-known here (they sell ok, but are much more popular in the UK). Alex, Attanasio did his graduate school work in biochem at the University of Pennsylvania, in the early '70s.
Also, Alex, the Philadelphia SF Society still meets on some regular basis around here somewhere...and writer Camille Bacon-Smith still organizes author-readings under the title Philadelphia Fantastic. Some of them, such as Geo. Scithers out in KOP, might even be able to tell you where Heinlein's apartment was.
You know, Keegan, I too went to grad school for a while in a subject that was slightly off my desired topic...a mistake, but if I'd stuck with it, I think I would've been happier with consequences. Good luck!
BIX: Uh, I could be wrong, but I believe there are copyright laws set in place that require you to get permission to use characters created by other writers, as you seem to be saying you did in the note posted below (particularly in the case of the "Quantum Leap" thing; your mention of "Corps Values," which is a take on the "Babylon 5" show, doesn't state whether or not you've used characters from the TV series, but if you have, I think that might also be a problem). I could be wrong. But I do know that the folks who own franchises like "Star Trek" and "Star Wars" require that you gain permission and sign contracts, etc. So I'd bet that it's the same with the two SF shows mentioned above. If I'm right, and if people start to take notice of your site, you may get more attention than you bargained for. Out here, DTS.
I don't suppose this is directly HE-related, but kind of indirectly because he had a bit to do with the TV series, "Babylon 5." For anyone who is interested in the Psi Corps aspects of the series, feel free to drop by my website, "The Psi Corps' Martian Facility":
http://babylon5.acmecity.com/nars/122
There's a fiction story there, "Corps Values," based on J. Gregory Keyes' trilogy (and yes, it falls into that wretched category of "fan fiction," because no one will buy anything from an unknown and unrepresented writer). I also included a "Quantum Leap" story to revise the horrible ending of the television series, and there are a couple of shorter works in the link to "Bix's World"-- one is a sci-fi/horror twist called "A Crack in the Night Mirror" and the other is an autobiographical passage entitled "Dial 'M' for 'McDowall'" about actor Roddy McDowall, God rest his soul.
(And, yes, this is in every way the starved writer's ego begging unashamedly for any attention from the outside world)
Peter, I studied both what I wanted (actually, first what I thought I wanted, then what I did want) and it was happy circumstance that it was also what I needed. After flopping in computer science, I switched to chemical engineering. Much to the confusion and utter disbelief of many, I actually enjoyed math and chemistry (except organic, but that was partly due to the prof) and all that technical stuff. And fortunately, it's a well paying though sometimes cyclic field, with a lot of interesting work.
The only time I considered majoring in something bound to leave me penniless was junior high. I toyed with the idea of majoring in music (I played clarinet, and did through college). But, my parents and reality talked me out of it. I finally owned up to myself that while I had some natural talent, it was just that - some, not a lot - and that I would never be the type of person to want to *practice* for hours and hours every day. I loved playing, but discipline has never been my strong suit. I must admit that, having given it up after college, I miss it.
it's late, I'm waxing nostalgic, later..... Peg
Peter --
I AM taking what I want to in college: A double major in Philosophy and English. (D'you want fries with that?) I was going to take what I thought I needed, and get a Business minor, too, but I decided to hell with practicality. I haven't hit any sort of panic yet along the lines of "oh my god what am I going to do with my life almost everything I know is fairly useless in real life," but that's because I feel comfortable falling back on the optional career of street maniac.
Re: Writer's block. I've got a paper prospectus for 20th Century Drama due on Monday, and I know that I've been studying my options with a deep and all-consuming dread. I believe in its existence with all my little heart.
Wow, what a great set of comments.
Peter, I don't think I took either what I wanted or what I thought I needed in college. I took the courses that were most convenient. College is really wasted on the young, IMHO. If I were starting my undergrad work, I would bring a whole lot more enthusiasm to the process. I regret not taking more science classes simply because I found lab work for organic chemistry so hard.
Paul, thanks for the book recommendations. I will check them out.
Xanadua, Finder, Maggie and Peter again, thank you kindly for the comments regarding writing. I have been truly puzzled by my lack of ability to write recently, mostly because it was always so easy for me my whole life. This recent impotent feeling I get while staring at a blank screen is a whole new experience, much like first love and almost nearly as painful.
However, you are right. The fate of the world or even of my own life does not rest on my writing something today or tomorrow. There are other things occurring in life now. The word processor isn't going anywhere.
On the other hand, I do wonder if I might not be better able to write if it became a matter of necessity for me. HE talks about this in "An Hour with Harlan Ellison" interview. He (and many other writers of the time) wrote because he had too. To pay the rent. There was no divine inspiration and no luxury of procrastination afforded to him. He just cranked it out to get his next paycheck. And he got to flex his writing muscles every single day and eventually turned into the man who could produce works like Jeffty is Five and Mephisto in Onyx.
Perhaps the key is to not be afraid to write absolute crap. After all, if you don't it out of you, you just become constipated, right?
Thanks again for the comments.
-chris
Peg! Glad they got there ok. I baked them the morning I mailed them. I think that they need a bit more cinnamon, but then I'm more of a molasses cookie kind of person. I'd really appreciate your feedback on them.
Xanadu - very nicely put. Actually beautifully put.
Keegan - I always loved the research end of the things and would get so involved with that, that I ended up pulling all nighters to write the darned things. It's a wonder I passed any of those classes! As to the degree thing, have you considered that you may be living in the wrong state? My sister graduated with a bachelor's last spring and is now teaching band at a junior high near her. Then again, the population is decidedly skewed towards country music in that part of the world. I'm sure that my uncle would be happy to have you around (he's a devoted jazz fan and has been trying to convert the rest of the family for years), but an audience of one isn't quite the same.
Maggie
- they got here tuesday. Yummmmmmmmmmmmmmmm!
Peg
P.S. - thanks for the tapes! My hubby loves Holmes and often has extended driving trips (well, not 4 hours like yours but long enough...)
Chris -
It is not the quality of dreams that makes you a dreamer. It is not the frequency; or if you dream in color; or if you dream long, involved tales. It is the fact that you dream, and that fact alone, that makes you a dreamer.
As my erstwhile partner in crime, Finder, said so much more eloquently than I could hope to; remove the onus of an adversarial relationship to writing. Let it be a joy and a force for change in your life. You may never sell a story, or a script, or an article, or a novel. You may become the next Harlan Ellison. That journey is yours alone to take. But take it with a smile and a song in your heart. Whether you are a Writer, by some arbitrary, academic measure of published output, or a writer of your heart that takes each piece, and puts them one after another into the trunk. In the end, the only audience you need to please is yourself.
Now that advice won't put food on your table if you wish to make writing your vocation, but as I heard Harlan once tell a young man during one of his talks, don't try to be a full-time writer. It's a hard, thankless job and there's no money in it. Don't study to be a writer in college - go out and do things, whatever you can get - have real world experience and real world skills you can fall back on. Harlan said he could always fall back on brick-laying if the writing gig ever fell through.
And lastly. "Writer" is merely a label. A way of categorizing folk into neat little packages. Real life ain't neat little packages - it doesn't matter if you fall within the white lines that say "Writer Within". You are what you are, regardless of the label. If your heart says write - then write and rejoice. If your heart says nevermore, then move on and rejoice. Writing is not life's ultimate achievement, nor is its opposite a failure. It is merely one more thing we can to do to explore our world and our lives.
Chris--
A good book about getting over your writing fears and hang-ups is Julia Cameron's "The Right to Write". Cameron precedes from the thesis that we are _all_ writers, regardless of how we make a living or spend most of our time. Our need to communicate with other people, she asserts, makes us writers.
And if anyone is looking for a great book about writing genre fiction, you can do no better than Michael Moorcock and Colin Greenland's "Death is No Obstacle" which, in its way, is just as inspiring as Cameron's book.
Ohgod. I shouldn't even be allowed to write. I just got back from an exam and (FINALLY) the library. The words! words! words! WORDS!
I don't understand why it overwhelms me so. I love to learn. I LOVE words, and I even like to write. Why do I hate school so????
I studied what I thought I needed. I am a jazz musician and I've known it for a long time. I studied music education for two reasons: because I thought it would give me a strong background in skills of musicianship and because it would also give me a day gig (teaching music) which is related to my primary pursuit (playing music).
I would rather have studied jazz music per se. I would have learned the same musical skills, but through the use and language of American popular music, NOT classical musics in and through Western European art music.
At this point, I am only studying music in the formal setting because the State tells me I must have a masters' degree to teach in the public schools. Quite frankly, my high school educated mother was one of my best music teachers. I'm resentful that I have to have a pedigree.
Peter - that's actually a good question. I majored in theatre, although the very first class I ever took in college was poetry writing (where I discovered that there are a lot of really bad poets out there, and while I wasn't the best by a long shot, it could have been worse - and we won't even go in to Sunny, the California blonde. Sometimes stereotypes exist for a reason). Theatre was what I needed at the time, and it was fun (or as much as anything could be fun, considering the mental state I was in at the time), but it isn't really marketable and, to tell the truth, I'd love to go back to school and study anthropology and literature - I swear, the way lit is taught in public schools can be pretty wretched. My 21 yr old sister loved watching the BBC Shakespeare plays on TV when she was 7, but now she thinks she's too dumb and that Shakespeare is this big fat sacred cow. Peeves me and makes me want to become a high school English teacher.
I too have spent time contemplating whether or not I'm a writer and the answer is, I don't know. I do know that I'm a story teller. I have a terrible time getting the stories on to the page. I think that it has to do with that wretched theatre major. I've written things that have been published in the local paper (arts section, not a big deal. Not like I'm getting money for it or anything!) and the editor was just shocked when I told him how I write them. I tell them to myself out loud over and over until they flow right. When I'm trying to get them down on paper, I have a harder time finding the flow. To tell you the truth, I don't know that I have any long stories. I'd like to find out, but between a job I'm not keen on, and the 4 hours a day I spend on the bus, I can't seem to even find the little stories I was writing before. They still come, but I can't tell them to myself on the bus and so work them out.
Wish I had a car. Well, job hunting now and the goal is a job that will let me afford a car and my trips. I need a lot of trips.
Peter - I studied what I wanted. Of course, I was blessed by a couple of nice classes that accomodated my interests while also meeting requirements - the History of Modern Warfare springs to mind (the grade was based on two ten page papers of our choice, written on ANY topic relating to modern warfare. That one of my papers was an analysis of Warner Brothers' wartime cartoons entitled "Of Course You Know, This Means War" should tell you the fun factor for me.) And I went with certain professors, regardless of the subject matter, because they were masterful instructors. I certainly didn't take Faulkner as one of my major authors because the class on Poe was full. But in retrospect, the Faulkner class was challenging and I've come to enjoy his writing as a result.
Keegan - Hang in there, songbird; look that paper dead in the eye, wrassle it to the ground, give it what for (because we all know you've got the power), and dance it up to the prof with a smile on your face and a little be bop in your step.
Here is something for all you college grads out there. Did you study what you wanted? Or did you study what you thought you needed?
I find myself in latter situation, and I'd rather be writing.
---Peter (there was more, but it seemed too much like me whining)
I don't know from writer's block. I *do* know all about "term-paper anxiety". I have it bad. I failed 20th century Music History in undergrad all because I procrastinated on finishing my paper. I asked for and GOT two extensions. I then asked for an Incomplete and the prof (a brilliant and very hip musicologist) looked me square in the eye and said, "No. You fail." It stunned me and cost me a fifth year in undergrad.
Since then, I have finished my papers, but I don't always do the "brilliant" work which, word has it, I can do. And I get really stressed out in the process. I go through the motions and end up doing shoddy research because I mentally "give up."
I'm now taking a Baroque history seminar with the man who failed me in undergrad. He knows I am capable of good writing and research because I aced his class in Bibliography and Research. I wrote an excellent paper on the techn