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The Ellison Bulletin Board

Comments Archive - 07/09/98 to 12/06/98

I'm going to weigh in here on the notion of "targeting" a book to an age bracket. Shoot way over their heads. Way over. I just did a reading for my daughters 6th grade class for Halloween of Ray Bradbury's "Pillar Of Fire". While we were on the topic of "horror" fiction and how to really frighten people I ran down for them the plot to Jerome Bixby's "It's A Good Life". In addition, to pad my time I gave them the notion of a literary tradition and using "Pillar" traced that particular story's influences back through Dunsany and Lovecraft to Poe. Oh, by the way, this was a Catholic school so the notion of a re-animated corpse wandering around and killing people while trying to re-animate other dead people was, lets just say dicey. Not only did nobody give me any shit about content but the teacher said it was the longest a majority of that class sat still since the beginning of the year. I went at the surrounding material almost exactly the way I would have had they been seniors and I am told they kept coming back to it in classroom discussions for a couple of days. Since then four of the students have started reading Bradbury and one took a run at Poe. I think three of the students were bored out of their minds but I'm told by the teacher that 1 in 10 is a tolerable percentage for disinterest. I attribute part of the success of that reading to the fact that for an hour they were playing catch-up to material that was above the "Goosebumps" pablum they have grown accustomed to. My father used to read Kipling and Stevenson to me because children's books bored him silly. Half the time I'm sure I didn't know what was going on but I didn't lose interest. Half of curiosity is that "what the hell is that supposed to be?" process. So, shove it in front of them and let their little brains try to sort it out. That's how big brains are nurtured.. Next - how to confuse a cat...

PEG: Thanks for asking about my presentation. It went very well. My professor told me after class that he enjoyed it a lot and noted that, in his experience, it is very unusual for a student who just gave a presentation on an "unknown" (to the other students) author to be asked by a number of students--in my case it was three--for titles of books for sale by that author. That happened in the break just after my presentation. Who knows if more people will ask for more information from me about Ellison's books next week. --------Shaz

Peter: I wasn't underestimating myself... I was making an honest evaluation of my first impression of "The Man Who Rowed Christopher Columbus Ashore." My point still is you're not a 17-year-old DUTCH boy whose mother asked me to recommend some Ellison science fiction stories (because science fiction is, apparently, his main interest) that weren't, in her words "sentimental like 'Susan'." Thus, I would say "The Dragon on the Bookshelf" from SLIPPAGE would also fall out of this boy's interest range --you have to admit that it is quite sentimental--if his mother was already concerned that a story like "Susan," which is the story I presented (in a taped narration with music, by Troy Wayne, and the Yerka painting projected via slide projector), was too sentimental for her son's tastes. And we both know that Deathbird Stories isn't really science fiction, but has enough science fiction elements in it, combined with timely issues and the interesting aspect of new (non-Christian) urban gods, to probably "hook" a 17 yr. old science fiction fan, and thus compel him to search out more of Ellison's fiction. I stand by my recommendation. Thanks for asking about my presentation. It went very well. My professor told me after class that he enjoyed it a lot and noted that, in his experience, it is very unusual for a student who just gave a presentation on an "unknown" (to the other students) author to be asked by a number of students--in my case it was three--for titles of books for sale by that author. That happened in the break just after my presentation. Who knows if more people will ask for more information from me about Ellison's books next week. --------Shaz

I need to learn to wake up before I start responding to things.... I meant to say, my review of Approaching Oblivion---Peter

Shaz::: Yeah, I'm not a seventeen year old boy... I'm a twenty year old man. Even more to the point, I had just turned nineteen when I had read slippage. I'll concede to the fact that english not being your primary language would create problems. But honestly? I don't like the idea of steering people toward "safe" or "easy to understand" literature (not that I'm calling Deathbird stories either, its a principle that bothers me). I think... and this is my own personal belief so please don't take any offense at what I'm suggesting. I think that a more helpful suggestion would have been to find and read slippage, and then tell them to discuss the stories amongst themselves. They might not all get it. They might all have different views of what actually happened in some of the stories. They might have many different thematic interpretations. If they discuss the stories however, they stand a greater chance of being able to understand them, and will in essence increase their enjoyment of the work. If you read my review you'll see that even I don't understand all of Ellison's work. Catman still loses me. I'm looking for Kadak frustrated me before I could enjoy it because of the yiddish terms and phrases that make it the story it is today. I had to read Kiss of Fire three times before I could understand what was happening... and that was in english! So please don't underestimate yourself or your peers when it comes to good literature, you end up doing everyone a disservice.---Peter (egads! I'm feeling old) O'Sullivan

PETER: Yes, well, Slippage may not have been too complicated for YOU. However, YOU are not a 17 year old boy whose first language is Dutch, lives in Holland (which means that a story like, say, "Jeffty is Five" would be largely lost on you because of the generation gap as well as the lack of knowledge of modern, not to mention 1930s-40s, AMERICAN culture), and didn't learn to speak English until the school started teaching it to you at around age 11--and whose main literary interest at this point in life is science fiction. I'm 28, and doing my masters in English, and I have to tell you that "The Man Who Rowed Christopher Columbus Ashore" wasn't easy for me. I guess my problem is I have to really understand a story on multiple levels, probably because I'm really into interpretation and literary criticism, and am not satisfied with merely surface enjoyment of a story. I have to really "get" it--ALL of it. But back to Deathbird Stories. Deathbird Stories struck me as a perfect getting-to-know-Ellison book for such a teenage boy because of its urbanity, its gritty realism spiked with fantastic elements. The theme of the new urban gods is intriguing. Now, there are stories in Slippage that would be a good introduction as well, such as Mephisto in Onyx, but not the book as a whole. Besides, if you saw how much you have to shell out for an imported American book at the bookstores here, you'd understand why I wouldn't recommend Slippage for said teenager when he could spend less money on Deathbird and probably get more out of it at this point in his life. My 2 cents. -----Shaz

Shaz - There are two copies of Deathbird Stories for auction on the eBay auction site. I have ventured there and bid on two HE books that I do not own. Unfortunately, the auctions conclude over the weekend, so I will have to wait until Monday to see how I did. As for HE writings to start a person off with, I personally started off with The Glass Teat. Got it at the only second hand bookstore in the town where I went to college. It seemed really interesting, but I had classes and a job and then I was majoring in tech. theatre so I was always working a show or three, and I never got around to it. Mentioned it one day to my shift supervisor, and she got really excited and made me promise to loan it to her. She returned it in time for spring break, and that was all it took. The one thing of HE's that I have never been able to locate, not even on interlibrary loan (and these are the people who sent to Washington state for a couple of out of print Jo Clayton books for me) was The Other Glass Teat. I have a lot of HE books, even Medea, Harlan's world (which is really a treat)and two Best of SF books edited by Isaac Asimov with several HE stories (and some really entertaining comments by the Good Doctor regarding HE). Shaz, HE is such a good writer, anything would be a good place to start. I saw that special edition of Mefisto in Onyx at Uncle Hugo's (really great used/new SF bookstore in Mpls) that I wanted in the worst way. I really hate when books with beauty and brains come out and I have no funds. How about Repent Harlequin, said the Ticktockman? (I just bought that really gorgeous oversize special edition at Borders. Feeling really smug and happy about that!) Anyway.

Peter - I don't have the whole shebang for you (all my reference works are packed away at the moment, and I'm not up for extensive net search), but I do know that an adaptation of "One Life..." was done for the CBS take on "The Twilight Zone" that HE worked on, which aired in the mid-eighties (in a similar time frame, if memory serves - and sometimes, folks, it doesn't serve at all - to Spielberg's "Amazing Stories" on NBC). Possible you've got a little memory cross-over? I remember precious little of "Amazing Stories", save for the star studded casts and "The Family Dog", which took forever to develop as its own series and bombed when it did. Hope this helps...hmm - I wonder if I still have my new TZ tapes from the '85-'86 broadcasts on CBS...Finder

Duh! I knew there was a reason I came on here in the first place..... I was shuffling through my mental library of childhood memories and came up with an interesting one. I was wondering if anybody could confirm it for me. When I was a kid (about eight) there was a show called Amazing Stories, produced by Steven Spielberg. Now I watched that show religiously when I was younger and so while I don't have clear memories of the stories, I do have tidbits still hiding in the back of my brain. I remember one episode about a tall dark haired yuppie type who finds an old toy soldier with his stuff. With this soldier he does a Bid Time Returns to the past where he watches himself as a kid stealing the toy soldier from a shop, and then watches as his parents scream at the kid. Was this an adaptation of Ellison's "One Life, furnished in early poverty" or is my mind playing tricks on me in my old age? (okay, twenty isn't that old... but still) Don't ask me what caused me to think of it. I didn't even make the connection until recently... any takers?---Peter

Shaz:::Slippage too complicated? Scare away newbies? I'll have you know that when I was a newbie not a year and a half ago, I read slippage and found myself searching high and low for anything ellison I could get my hands on. Before that however I was never able to find anything. I'd been looking for his work for at least six months before I ran into that gem. I think that Slippage is an excellent starter. Peg::: 1)If Ellison had never become a writer I think he may have worked at some newsstand somewhere between Ohio and New York (maybe still in Paynesville). He would have stood in the same booth for forty years with a dour expression on his face and a comment for everyone who picked up the latest copy of whatever happens to be the current literature of the religious right. 2)I think that Ellison would find that the best thing about human beings is their infinite capacity for compassion and imagination. I think he'd find that the worst thing about human beings would be their sheer reluctance to use either. 3)I'm gonna have to go with... he was a gas station attendant. Charlie::: I don't think Ellison has actually ever gone on PI to plug anything. I once saw Maher plug "Repent Harlequin" but the thing had been out for a while and HE'd been on before in that time... but we can hope.---Peter

*SHAZ* - I don't know about future printings (except it will be in an Edgeworks volume sometime). However, you can get "Dreams with Sharp Teeth" from HERC for $20. This has 3 volumes - Deathbird Stories, I Have No Mouth and I Must Scream, and Shatterday - which would be great for your interested student. If that's just too pricey, email me a list of titles at home and I'll see what I can dig up at the local used stores (when I get back ~ 12/10). BTW, you didn't say how the class went???----------------{eg

ARRRGH! I didn't know that DEATHBIRD STORIES was already out of print!!! After my class presentation on Ellison today, one of the students asked me to recommend a good Ellison short story collection to start off a 17-18 year old for whom English is his second language. I, of course, recommended Deathbird Stories, since I think Angry Candy may be too dark, slightly mainstream, and autobiographical for a 17 year old who's into science fiction, and Slippage has some stories that are probably too advanced/complicated NOT to scare off a newcomer to Ellison. And now I find out that Deathbird Stories is listed as out of print on Amazon.com and Barnes and Noble! *SIGH* Does anyone know if there's going to be another printing of Deathbird Stories anytime soon? ---------Shaz

Rick- Thanks for the update. Does that mean HE is promoting a book on PI- Could it be Edge. 5, he says with fingers crossed. Charlie

Just got word from HE that he will be on POLITICALLY INCORRECT WITH BILL MAHER on Monday, Jan 4, 1999. PI is on ABC, check your local listing for showtime (it's probably about 30 minutes after you go to sleep, but what the hey).

I'm with Peter. Truce. And, in an effort to drag the conversation kicking and screaming in another direction, here's an invite to submit even an --uninformed-- opinion on what Harlan had to say to these questions I asked during my call; consider it some of my divulgence on the call contents. Frivolous guesses also welcome - points for humor and originality. (Barney and Rick, be nice and let some other folks guess first, we all know that you guys know just everything about Harlan...] Details on these posted in a week or so. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- #1 If he wasn't a writer, what would Harlan like to do for a living? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- #2 {I'll spare the long intro conversation to this question and just leave you with...} I asked Harlan what he thought the best and worst qualities of people were? (ps the worst one is more common knowledge - I've even seen it elsewhere on this page - so there's more credit for the best one] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- #3 and for total trivia, what job did Harlan do that was related to the industry I work in now ? [BTW, I knew he'd done all sorts of stuff, but this was one of the true surprises of my conversation. And yes, I'm purposely making it harder by not reminding you what I do for a living....] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The Pegster

Re:this whole Amarin/ellison/charity/free speech/opinions/bullcrap issue. This discussion has been going on for a month now. I call a truce. Please, let us agree to disagree and move on with our lives. I eralize that I'm as quick to respond as anybody on this board, but please! I beg of everybody. Let us stop.--- This message has been brought to you by the pychosis that controls the being named peter.---Peter

Re: in defense of Amirin. Okay, so Amirin is intitled to her opinion, but we're not? I've just re-read my own response to Amirin, and there is certainly much of the affronted, snapping jerk, but nowhere do I suggest that she stop posting. If she's allowed to her opinion, then so am I. And if my opinion happens to be that her opinion is so much bunkum, then . . . Oh, and another opinion: If you're so proud of being the voice of dissent, then why do it anonymously?

I've always considered South Park to be an affont... I mean affront to wisdom. But then again, what do I know? I'm the guy who puts swift and voltaire in my list of favorite writers... I just deleted several lines of ranting that I think I'l formulate into an essay. ---Peter

Peter *** you're paraphrasing Ellison, but you're misquoting Flaubert, whose turn of phrase revolved around everybody being entitled to "their enlightened and informed opinion". I only mention this because I am reminded of that other font of perrennial wisdom, Mr. Garrison from South Park, who tells us "There are no stupid questions, only stupid people." Currently reading "Cold Snap" by Thom Jones and listening to Rasputina. Ellison question of the day / Why is the orchard owner crying in "On the Slab"? Hey! Kid! Put that needle back in the hamster! How many times have I told you to leave my experiments alone, damnit. Where is my duct tape...

Okay, I'm going to misquote ellison on this one. We have nothing against people having and expressing their opinions. We do have a problem with people expressing blatantly stupid, uninformed opinions.---Peter

To all of you alleged forward thinkers out there, why on God's green Earth can't someone express an opinion on any given subject. Personally, I could give a hoot about the fact that someone wants to spend his or her hard earned dollars chatting with this gentleman. However, I pride myself on being the voice of dissent, if, for no other reason than to take temporary residence in the vacancy so many of you have in your heads. I don't know this person, but continue to speak your mind whoever you are. That's all I have to say about that.

DESTRY -- Nope. Edgeworks Volume 5 has not yet been released. I dunno what the deal is, but I, too, have been waiting with baited breath. I've refused to allow myself to read the online version, so that I could have the pleasure of reading The Complete Glass Teat for the first time from my very own copy. I feel your pain.

HELP! I'm trapped in a widdle-bitty podunk town where our one bookstore knows NOTHING about Edgeworks 5. I grow frustrated. Has it been released? If so, I must use up more company "online time" to order it from otherwhere. Many thanks in advance for news you might have!

Barney/Rick- Thanks for the replies. I was curious b/c I was looking at an old issue of Rabbit Hole which mentioned that "Children of the Streets" was being reissued around 1984 or 85 with new stories, but I don't recall it ever being issued. I thought it might have been one I missed. I do have my copy of The Juvies. I'm finally (!) reading Memos (Memoranda!) from Purgatory. It's definitely a quick read b/c it's very interesting. I feel like I'm in the middle of the fight between HE and Candle, with the hankie in their mouths, and pulling for HE to pull it out against the goon. Wow. (I'm speechless, can't you tell (-: Charlie

Peter**** no no no no no TURN ON your ego before you write. Then leave it on just to be safe, In fact, have multiple backup generators installed and have your ego re-wired for 220 amp service if it's not there already. Feel free to beat this metaphor to death - I have to go address the crowd below my balcony - where's my gun...

Isn't it funny how we allow arbitrary numbers to control how we feel about our work? I've started working on a new book (one that I'm detemermined to finish writing) and made the mistake of running the first six hundred words through my grammar checker. The analyis gave it a grade level of 5.6 (as compared to a Hemingway short story which is 4) and I'm scared shitless. Not because the writing is technically flawed. I have revision for that. But because I'm not sure if I'm a competent enough writer to pull off this story. I know that I should turn off my ego before I write, but I felt that putting my fears out into the open will somehow make them easier to conquer. So if anybody wants to they can ignore this self deprecating bull caca, I'll be done in a minute. Okay, I'm breathing, I'm breathing.-Rick, I'll still be able to do the reviews. They'll propel me into the proper frame of mind I need to write. Otherwise I stare at my screen for hours on end. okay. I feel better now. I can go on with what I'm doing. ---Pete (going mad one word at a time)

BARNEY - you are right. "The Children of the Streets" was the original manuscript title for THE JUVIES, but I must have hit the database wrong or had a brain fart, there were no further editions past the 1961 one...

Rick, Barney - Thanks for the straight dope. This makes EGH the first Ellison book I've bought strictly as a collector's item, rather than for the stories (I already have Ellison Wonderland). Nicole - Whatta ya tryin to do, kill the guy? Geez! Mitch

Rick ** great minds post at the same time of day, eh? I'm confused. I don't think Charlie has any edition, or at least I didn't get that from his post. I checked your bibliography engine and you only list "The Juvies" and the table of contents from 1961. Islets of Langerhernes lists "Children of the Streets" but credits the copyright as 1961 with no picture so I have to assume he is being polite and is referring to "The Juvies". He lists no table of contents. My Pyramid and Ace sets don't have "Children of the Streets", only "The Deadly Streets". The Swigart only goes up to the 1980's but only lists "Children" as an alternate title for "Juvies". While I have seen the title on Harlan's published works pages I don't recall both titles being on the same page at the same time. For instance - early printings of "I Have No Mouth and I Must Scream" list "The Juvies" and Ace reprints like "No Doors, No Windows" list "Children Of the Streets" but not both. The Richmond bibliography [3.0 - a work in progress] has the same information as above. This says to me that no such book exists. Does somebody have something I don't have? I hope not. A future possibility is that much of the table of contents of "The Juvies" could comprise the backbone of "Rough Beasts" although there is plenty enough other early material floating around. And that's why I don't do two shows a night! Yours in anal retentativeness. Barney

Ahem. I'll attempt to remove these burlesquian shackles from my feet... Please allow me to apologize for my remarks here on this board. I misunderstood the phone/auction piece and reacted much too quickly, and much too spitefully. I did not mean to attack Peg for her support of the charity. I wish to apologize also to Mr. Ellison. One's anguish must not be taken lightly. Not an excuse - but I am still young, and a student, and sometimes the best lessons are the ones least expected. My purpose was to show the outrageousness behind the $500 for a 20min phone call... but I see that no such fault need be found. Charity is charity, and we strive to help others. And sometimes it's lonely out here. Please accept this from my heart. Believe me, I was just struck through the soul by the crackling, highly seared, highly charged, quickened white fire of a lightning bolt. Amy

*BARNEY* - I'd love to check it out. However, as my experience with the phone call taught me, big brother here blocks auction sites. Maybe another time... when does the auction end? I get home on the 10th, and could look then. ---------------------Peg

Nicole** So, was he in the Neon or the Packard? Mitch *** "Earthman, Go Home" was one of those cases of the publisher thinking the author wouldn't know or care as long as the check was in the mail. They may have thought the original title was too cute or self referential and that putting a cheap painting of Robbie the Robot on the cover would help. It is to laugh. No reprisals that I am aware of. Charlie *** The Juvies was never reprinted to my knowledge under that title or the ms. title "Children of the Streets" although there was talk of this being one of the later titles for both the Pyramid/Jove and Ace re-issues. Some of the pieces have shown up elsewhere and "Matinee Idyll" is the launch point for "Spider Kiss" Confusion with "The Deadly Streets" from the same period doesn't help. But I hope this does... All **** Shameless plug - I know you all are feeling flush with the holidays around the corner so I thought I'd mention I just posted 20 Ellison lots on e-bay ranging from $3 - $10.00 Caloo calay, da basement door be flung wide open today! Something must pay for these wretched excesses and the white slave trade isn't what it used to be. Later folks....

Let's get you all here...MITCH - "Earthman Go Home" was a screwover by the publisher, who apparently liked the title better. HE hit the roof when he saw it and subsequent editions used the correct title....CHARLIE - "The Juvies" was SUPPOSED to be titled "Children of the Streets" but again the publisher had other ideas. All other editions, including the one you've got which is probably an Ace paperback, use the correct title. For questions like this, why not go to the bibliographical database at http://www.webtoys.net/~rwyatt next time? NICOLE - just went to Dangerous Visions last week, should have a picture of Mr. Cover and the store somewhere on the site in the near future. EVERYONE - Harlan did read some of the comments on here (from the Amirin stuff forward), but he gagged and passed out when he read Nicole's "isn't Harlan the most awesome guy?" and had to be given and adrenaline injection to recover consciousness....

Hey gang! Hope you all had a happy one. Just got back from Milwaukee, with an interesting find: a paperback edition of 'Ellison Wonderland', retitled 'Earthman, Go Home!'. Does anyone know the story behind this, if there is one? Thanks for any info you have. Mitch

Query: Was The Juvies ever re-released in the mid-80's under the title "Children of the Streets"? Charlie

Yeah, that's him! Yes, I visited DV when I was in LA last summer. Had a horrid time finding it, because it's so small. Him and my uncle teased me mercilessly, but it was all good. You know that chair HE sat in while he wrote that story in the window? Very comfy, it was. I think I mentioned that I was a Web Rat, too. I also got another treat- heading back to my uncle's house, I got a glimpse of Da Man himself driving down the road. Didn't see his awesome house, which was a pity, but I did get a good look at the school he was all up in arms about. That place is nice, but it's huge as anything.

NICOLE ** Arthur Byron Cover is the name your looking for. By the looks of this post are we to assume that you just took a little trip out to Sherman Oaks?

I still lurk frequently, but apparently, I haven't been paying attention. I just read "Susan" online. Had heard about the beauty of that story, and MAN! All I wanna say about it is I heard it. I know why the cat is cryin', I felt it. If I ever meet my own "susan" (kinda brings to mind Johnny Cash and the boy named Sue, don't it??), maybe I'll yet live it..... Anyway, many thanks to Rick, HE, etc. for casting that bread upon the cyber waters. I will pay more attention from now on. I will also do the proper thing and patronize the store. Again, thank you, thank you, thank you and please pass the kleenex.

Just got around to checking out Harlan's works online. "Susan" is a wonderful piece of work. It was easy to see how much he had taken from his life. It's true that you can really get to know a person by his or her writings. I think (or I may be imagining it), but did someone say something about places to find HE books? If so, a good place is Dangerous Visions in Sherman Oaks, CA. They have an online store, too, which I'm sure you have a link to, Rick, but it is really worth the trek if you're in the area. I got to talk with...dangit, what's his name, the writer with blonde hair who is a friend of Harlan's....anyway, that was a neat experience in itself. And they have a huge table just covered with HE's books and recordings. Maggie- yes, some of us have seen each other at cons (look at Rick's DragonCon 98 pictures), but we're mostly just a big group of friends that got to know each other over this board. At least that's how it was for me, anyway.

Alex - If you'd like to check the place out for yourself, it's the Book Pit, just off of Broad St, behind a camera shop. They've got a sandwich board sign on the corner, with a bat logo. It's the kind of place where you can happily get lost for a few hours. Happy hunting! Mitch

Mitch: I had a similar experience last month in the Hague. I wandered into De Slegte, which is a used & remainders book store chain in Holland and Belgium, and started browsing through the science fiction paperbacks section. Admist a rack of sci-fi pulps, I spotted ON AN ODD NOTE by Gerald Kersh! I was very surprised, and quite pleased that it was priced at under US$4.00. This is the same bookstore where I found the copies of Ellison's Dutch-translated story collections, HOE KAN IK SCHREEUWEN ZONDER MOND and DE HELDEN VAN DE HIGHWAY. Wonders never cease. --------Shaz

MITCH: I hate you. I was just in Red Bank (actually, Little Silver, but it's almost the same thing) for a weekend party! Aargh! Enjoy the book, though ... Darn. :ož

Wonders never cease. I'm in this terrific used book store in Red Bank. The clerk notices I've got Dick's 'Flow My Tears...', and directs me to a display case for more of his work. I get there, and what to my wondering eyes should appear, but 'Men Without Bones' by Gerald Kersh. K'ching! I checked the Wanted list, and it isn't one of the books HE's looking for, so this baby's a keeper! DOC - Benny's pizza, of course! The biggest slice in Jersey. Mmmmmmmm...Mitch

You know, I would like to thank everybody for being so understanding about my duplicate entries problem. This site is my first foray into the cyber world and clearly I chose an excellent place to start. So thanks, y'all are terrific, but then what else would HE fans be? Anyway. A new bookstore opened up by house, and being completely unable to resist bookstores, I went. I have also recently given up working for non-profits, mostly because I was tired of working 3 jobs and still being broke all of the time(this is so sad, but I am making more after 4 months here, than I did after 6 years as a Job Coach). So, the new bookstore and the new paycheck just all ran together and I walked out of the store with a really beautiful edition of "Repent Harlequin, Said the Ticktockman!" Have you seen this? It is beautiful(I have a hard time resisting books anyway, but books that have looks and brains are damned near irristable)! Not only that, but it has a new bit at the front of the book! At least, it wasn't in any of my other copies of the story. Peter: Don't feel bad, all of my friends are the same way. I keep after them though. I gave the guy at the bookstore a bad time for not knowing HE too. Have all of you guys met at cons or something?

FYI-In the latest issue of that "you-know-what" channel's magazine, it has an article about the Seeing Eye Theatre (am I getting that right??-I don't have the mag. in front of me) Anyway, HE is suppose to be doing the introductions to these tapes just being released on Dove Audio. It mentions that "Wanted In Surgery" will be released in the second batch, around March or April of next year. HE is quoted in the article-HE sez how he enjoys radio and would rather do that than TV. It's in the Jan. 99 issue. Also, FYI, there's an ad. in the magazine stating that the B5 tape of "A View From the Gallery" is out on tape- co-story idea by HE. Charlie

LADYPEST> As I always say, "If you can't tease your friends, what's the point in having them?" EVERYONE> Look, I see that Amirin has put the proverbial bug up the group-tuchis, but I think it behooves everyone who frequents this board -- Otto, Pete, DTS (who should know), and yes, even Rick -- to remember: I AM THE TOUCHY, OVER-SENSATIVE ONE, HERE. This is a long-standing tradition; just look at the older posts! John's the smart Beatle, Paul's the cute one, George is the spiritual one, Ringo is,...well, Ringo, and I'm the touchy, cranky one. So can we please let the matter rest? Seriously, people make assumptions, however gross, whatever level of information they have available, balancing it against there own (sometimes pointy-headed) ethics. If I might employ another Doc-ism, we can agree to disagree, just so long as you remember that I am right. RICK> The review proceeds apace; sorry it's taking SO LONG, but there's no task quite so Herculean than trying to explain the obvious. You might have to make-do with a nice, juicy overview. Also, one of my novels has found its teeth, and consented to be written (at last). PEG> Harlan's got a way about him, don't he? SUE> Excellent point. MITCH> A slice of Benny's *what?* ALL> My apologies for posting so infrequently, but life has been. (And that's just exactly how I wanted that sentence and this post to end.) Cheers, Doc

Hmmm. I could just imagine myself bouncy and beaming after a conversation with ellison. It's just that if I were to call all of my friends saying that I'd spoken with the man, half would say "who?" and the other half would say "Isn't he that guy you're always trying to get me to read?" ---Peter

Great that you two got to talk, Peg! Isn't Harlan the most awesome guy? I remember how I was when I got off the phone with him for the first time. I was all happy and bouncy and calling all my friends to tell them that I actually got to talk to *Harlan Ellison*! Now, all you have to do is meet him, which is an experience in itself, let me assure you! And if you can make eye contact with him first time, you have one over on me. Actually, getting to talk to him is a big reason to get my reviews done. BTW, is Ralph Nadar getting to be something of an in-joke around here? ;) I only got yelled at *once*!

Rick- I think you've hit on why trolls get up peoples' noses. We assume that they are sane and rational human beings who are completely capable of understanding reason. I don't think anybody wanted to believe that they were dealing with the "six year old who shouts 'doody' in a dinner party" (great analogy by the way) but rather a reasonable human being who was just expressing his (albeit uninformed) opinion. While later posts of said undesirable individual would illustrate his undoubted closed mindedness, by then it is too late and the flood gates have been opened. Trolls feed off of the desire of people to believe that they are on even fighting ground. When in fact, the troll is undermining the foundation upon which the posters stand by trying to provoke violent reactions. okay, enough internet psychobabble. Let's just ignore the fucker. ---Peter

Allrighty it was fun for a while but at this point we're just being trolled. I believe the contentions about HE's ego have been successfully dealt with, let's not fire off a 3 page retort just because some random anonymous fuck called us losers. You don't try to engage in detailed conversation the six-year old that runs into their parent's dinner party, shouts "doody!", and runs off, do you?

Amarin, Amarin, Amarin... (*sigh* I just KNEW I shoulda took the time to say it the nice way) I'm sure your presence on the board would be welcome in more constructive or at least pleasant conversation, no need to whisper off. That's not the intent. Haven't you yet gotten the point?? If the guy in a trenchcoat sold you the clue, would you know what it was? It's nothing to do with stroking the ego of Harlan Ellison. Heck, it coulda been any popular figure in SciFi circles, and some other (arguably nuts) person would have spent the money. Think how many Star Trek afficiandos would have bid TWICE as much or more to speak to William Shatner, or Leonard Nimoy, or (prior to his passing) Gene Roddenberry. -------------------------------- The points are thus: We're not here defending anyone's ego or talent or whether a 20 minute call is *worth* $500. The focus of the rant is that you consider it hubris or ego or arrogance that Harlan would ascribe such a price to a mere phone call [*side note* would you still name it such if it Stephen Hawking? President Clinton? John Glenn? Michael Jordan? Saddam Hussein? Ralph Nader?]. And that you consider it a waste that I or anyone would spend that money on a mere phone call. -------------------------------- First - the money went to a reputable charity for people far less fortunate than myself. In my book, that's by defition not a waste, doesn't matter if you get anything for it or not. And in my case, I would have donated the money to a charity anyway. Second - if Harlan (or anyone else) offered a phone call, it was because he thought that might draw more money for the charity, it being something not available on store shelves; and because he realized that while he might not think it a big deal, someone else might. Donating the time was generous, believing people would be interested is called understanding your market. If that is arrogant, the same could be said of the Slider jackets (how arrogant a show to think their clothing is worth so much) or the Alien Voices video (their egos must be huge to think a signed video performance is worth that price). Last (and I really hope this is the last I type on this topic aside from the promised details) - the reason I wanted the call was the chance to converse privately with someone who's writing I both enjoy and find stimulating, and (through other media) whose knowledge and personality I find appealing (yes, even the loud, obnoxious parts, I have some similar tendencies at times myself), and with whom I would not likely have that opportunity in any other polite and legitimate forum. It's an experience I would not otherwise likely have. So you don't think it's much; well, certainly, you can have your opinion. Maybe there's something else which you WOULD find worth your time or effort or money, something you would find special, unique, intriguing, out of the ordinary. But it's just rude to trash someone for donating time to charity or for donating money to charity; and insensitive to judge a person's interest or desire lowly or worthless when you don't share it. Amarin, I hope this explains things, at least my position, in the least offensive way possible. Peg

PEG: I'm sorry, I called you Pat in my last message. Please accept my apology. Shane

AMIRIN: You still don't quite get it, do you? Pat can spend her money/time to do as she pleases, Harlan can help charities as he pleases, and you can do what pleases you (as long as all parties are consenting.) This is the stuff that makes America great. As for stroking Harlan, we don't need to do it for his benefit (he has justified self-confidence to spare)and I doubt that he would know about it if we did. Oh, and stick around, you might learn something...and you might teach us something, to boot. Shane

AMIRIN, you peglegged can-can dancer (I'll be silly if I want to), You are becoming downright infuriating. Of course time can be better spent. Time can ALWAYS be better spent. In the time you wasted posting here on how egomaniacal you believe HE to be, you could have been spending the aforementioned twenty minutes doing something with Habitat for Humanity. Instead, you bowed to your own ego, and raised your piping voice on this forum so that you could be sure your that thoughts would be known. And you really ticked everyone else off, causing more posts, wasting more time that could have been better spent doing something more constructive than refuting the sanctimonious admonitions of a would-be poet! My, that certainly was a long sentence. But don't pull such a holier-than-thou act on the good Peg or HE. She is allowed to do with her money as she sees fit, and it went to charity, and she received some compensation for it, which is perfectly acceptable. HE knows that time is money, and devoted his time -- his loss -- in perhaps the most profitable way possible. I think I'm done now. I'm sorry this got so long.

Stirred the cauldron, have we? Raised the ire of the troops? My. Napoleon marched more quietly. I'll whisper, all the way to the guillotine, that time is more wisely spent. Until then, I have 20min to spare... serving soup to the homeless, or nailing boards together for habitat for humanity. You guys concentrate on stroking Mr. E. I'm out of here.

PEG: Good for you (and the charity, too!) All: I'd like to recommend for your listening pleasure "The Titanic Disaster Hearings : The Official Transcripts of the 1912 Investigation." The main reason that I bring this up is Harlan's representation of three seperate witnesses in this six hour dramatization of the Senate hearings about the Titanic disaster. Other actors include Michael York, Patrick Macnee, and William Windom. I bought it from Amazon.Com for Harlan's acting, but I found the charactizations and material contained a facinating view of humans under survival conditions. As you listen you'll ask yourself, "What would I have done?" Best, Shane

PEG - Well spoken [stands at his desk and applauds robustly], though I would say even though you posted here about making a charitable donation, be it five, five hundred, or five thousand dollars, your expression of enthusiasm over getting the opportunity to speak one-on-one with someone whose creative works you enjoy still doesn't give anyone the right to throw in their two cents on what you do with your two cents. You received the opportunity to converse personally with HE, one of the greats in his field, and a hell of a nice guy to boot, and in the process helped make a charity a little better off. Although it had a dollar value associated with it, that kind of package deal is quite priceless...and anyone who searches blindly for alterior motive, or casts dispersions based on a half-assed assessment of events - well, maybe medical science will someday find a way to treat gross ignorance. Too bad some people can't understand the sheer joy of connecting with the person behind the name, even in a small way, be it through the labor of love this website is, or through a hand-full of minutes over a fiber optic cable. Or, to use a Finderism, you got to chew the fat with Harlan Ellison, and I think that's cool like Christmas...RICK - may I never tread in ignorance within the confines of your electronic house...AMIRIN - check this, if I could find the secret slot on my computer that dropped silver coin through the daisy-chain of cyberspace, I'd surely spare a quarter to your side of the moon, so in those last tickings towards the bustling autumn sundown, you could find a streetwise soul in a long trenchcoat to sell you a clue. Finder

Yes, yes, I know, I haven't spilled about the call yet... Give me a few more days, and don't expect exacting details. I gotta get this out of my system first. ----------------------- *AMARIN* Okay, I'm sure you're a real nice person, and that if I ever meet you I'll have to apologize about ranting all over you on the Webderland board. Normally I'd take the time to state things nicely but my neck hairs are up so you get the impolite version. [sincerely, I apologize in advance for trampling quite so hard while in stilleto heels, I'm generally a much nicer person]. Rick beat me to the punch, and ain't you just *sooooooo* lucky about that. Well, actually, you're not, he's far more scathing than I am, at least with vocabulary, but if I saw you I'd give you my look that makes flowers wither and dead people roll over in their graves... FIRST of all, who are you to question how much money I'm donating to what charity and whether I get SQUAT for that money? (I would say it's none of your business, but I did post all over the board about it, so I allowed it to be your business). My husband and I try to be generous no matter what the income is, and most of the time what we get is a warm fuzzy and the tenuous knowledge that if we can't (or won't) actually go physically help people, that maybe we are making some SLIGHT difference somewhere. Getting the call was gravy, but in fairness I will admit it prompted me to donate to a charity not on our regular list. SECOND - which fact Rick also beat me to the punch - there was a miscommunication, apparently Harlan had intended the starting bid to be ~$100. He felt so bad about the mixup he spent the first few mintues of the call apologizing to me and explaining what happened. When we were accidentally disconnected, he had Susan call me back immediately on another line and let me know he would call back. Which he did, and then Harlan bothered to tell me what the issue was and why it was important enough to take the call. THIRD And we talked for almost an hour. Let's get this straight - I had NO expectations for a call over 20 minutes (and his lecture rate is WAY more that what I paid). And whenever I would comment that well, I'd really stretched the time and how busy he must be, Harlan would say, no that's okay, we can talk some more. Several times. Very gracious. FOURTH And for me, it's not how many minutes I got for how many bucks. As I posted before, and mentioned to Harlan, I've got no real legitimate reason to call other than, well GOSH Mr Ellison, I just love you work and couldn't you just spare me 20 minutes of you day, I know you won't mind and that script can wait and I'm sure your publisher will understand and yadda yadda yadda. Forget it. I don't like it when telemarketers and other idiots waste my time on the phone, I'm sure Harlan doesn't either. What makes a difference is it was a private call, OUR conversation, we talked about all sorts of *stuff*, he never refused any questions or tried to steer to or away from topics. Not something I'd be likely to get at a signing or a convention. Whether it was 5 minutes or 50, the experience is what was the driver, not the tick of the clock. (and I'm not someone to chase autographs, HE is about the only pseudo - "celebrity" that I would go out of my way to get a phone call with.) ---------------------- Okay, the rants out, I feel like a deflated balloon. I promise, a report back on the phone call in a few days... Ta, Peg

Mefisto in Onyx news: The following can be found at http://www.darkhorizons.com/news.htm as of Nov. 17, 98. Mefisto in Onyx: Award-winning author Harlan Ellison apparently revealed on a recent edition of Boston radio show 'The Connection' that "Mefisto in Onyx", a story included in his latest book "Slippage", is in the works to be adapted to the big screen. A tentative cast of Mel Gibson, Samuel L. Jackson and Rene Russo were mentioned to be in this story about two telepathic men and a female district attorney who has become romantically involved with a serial killer whom she got convicted. I know this is probably old news for us HE fans. best, jody

Wow! I leave for a bit to go see Alien Sex Fiend live, and I miss a whole arguement! Guess it was someone else's turn to yell at the snerts...good job, Rick. You tell 'em! ::cheers from the sidelines:: You're probably wondering what happened to my Glass Teat review, but I've got a good part of it done. I'm combining my usual writing with an editorial on T.V that I did for our newspaper, so it should be interesting. I've had three letters to the editor on the subject of my articles (they had the words "Humor Column" in big letters over the top! I don't get it!), so I have been quite busy, what with that and an upcoming transfer next semester, not to mention a report on our own HE due soon. My parents won't react well to my goth look when I come home for break- wonder if the Ellisons would take in a houseguest for about a week...;)

okay, I was going to respond to Amirin, but Rick's response was a whole helluva lot more effective (not to mention educated) than any slams against the guy's mother/life/sexual proclivities that I may have come up in defense of Ellison. The fact of the matter is, if you have a valid argument, then make it. Don't disguise it in flowery language or try to impress people who have proven their (infinitely better) taste in prose by just being here. I have a theory about people who thrive off of controversy for controversy's sake... I just won't share it here. ---Peter

Addendum to previous rant (aside from correcting the math error, I meant to say $25 a minute, not 20): on confirming this with Harlan - The Dominion asked Harlan for a book to auction, and HE said they would only get $20 or so for that and instead offered a 20-minute phone call for which he suggested a bid of $100.00. When he heard the call had been offered at $500.00 and two people had bid that amount, he was so embarassed that he spoke to the first person for over an hour...and when he lost the second person due to call waiting after a 40 minute conversation he called her back and spoke for an additional 15 minutes. Those with further unsupported and kneejerk comments are invited to check out my rant of 07/09/98 on this very website. Boy, ya raise a grand for charity and get shat upon, ya offer some advice about an Ellison story and get a backhanded thank you...is it just me, or can we not win this month?

AMIRIN - I cannot for the life of me figure out why we are even having this discussion. Do you even know WHO set the figure for Harlan's 20 minute talk? Are you aware that not one but TWO people thought it was a fair price, and that informed of this rather than force a bidding war Harlan was gracious enough to accept both? For the record, HE received NOTHING for his time. That's ZERO dollars per minute, not 20. And even if he HAD been paid, which I remind you he was NOT, receiving the equivalent of $1500 for an hour is hardly an astronomical fee when compared to personal appearance fees charged by Harlan and other people in similar circles. You also are dealing with a man who, if the legions of fans I have received personal testimony from are any indication, has been generous with his time and attention to a fault and is perhaps one of the most accessible of all the authors of or near his calibre and reputation. Your argument, in short, is pure dingo's kidneys. ........ Furthermore, for you to accuse Harlan of hubris or ego based on his raising a thousand dollars for a worthy charity in this way is quite simply baseless and ridiculous - and is an attack that reveals far more about the character of the one making the attack than it does about the man in question. And since we are making free with the personal analyses this week, let me add my opinion of what that attack reveals about you (regardless of how seriously or lightly you meant it) - that you are a jealous and petty man who finds more value in impugning the good works of others than in performing those of his own, and who finds pleasure and humor in belittling others to no good purpose. So enjoy pissing in the wind...most of us don't like the taste.

Needless to say, I won't be going to the trouble of finding a copy of the FILM A Boy and His Dog...I am quite satisfied with Ellison's own story.

There is an interesting essay on the MOVIE-version of "A Boy and His Dog," entitled "A BOY AND HIS DOG: The Final Solution" by Joanna Russ. Here is a bit of the introduction to the essay in the collection of Russ's essays that it appears in: "What to do with majority/oppressor culture is a continuing problem for minority/oppressed groups. Most of us settle for crumbs--the allusion, the implication, the single line, the "good scene," teh dominant-group character whom one can "identify with" without having to face the nastiness of the minority ones (who are two-dimensional or defamatory). The following review was published in 1975. After seeing the film discussed below, I found that crumbs were not enough and that I would no longer settle for the kind of cultural product that blithely blamed me for the ills of its far more loathsome male characters. I still think that Harlan Ellison's story of the same name is a very different matter from the film (for which Ellison wasn't responsible); in the story everyone is loathsome, and Quilla June has a solid beef against her ghastly father, i.e. when escaping "Topeka," she stuns him by confronting him with what she knows to be his own secret desires: incest with her. (That is, after all, a fairly good reason to be angry at your father.) Luckily, I am an artist and can make good the extraordinary deficit of any representation in popular culture of people like me and feelings like mine by writing them into stories; people who feel the lack but aren't artists must have a harder time of it. ... It all starts when you say no." -------------from "A BOY AND HIS DOG: The Final Solution," by Joanna Russ, in Joanna Russ's TO WRITE LIKE A WOMAN ESSAYS IN FEMINISM AND SCIENCE FICTION.

Well, metaphorically speaking, it's chill on this side of the moon. Hey, I'm not against charity. I support Amnesty Int. and other groups, and I serve in a soup kitchen twice a month. The point... step back, it's not the syrup from a needle... is that Mr. E. "offers" the charity of his persona to someone for $500. That strikes like the sudden, heavy chime of ego. 20 mins at $25 smacks of it. I'll spend 20 mins in a soup kitchen, please. Doesn't mean I'm ranting on Harlan, or pecking at the web site. Just a bit of disillusionment... and, forbid, a bit of disagreement with the man.

Hiya kids. Doc - Didn't mean to slight you. Next time you're in the NY / NJ area, lemme know, and I'll take you out for a slice of Benny's. Mitch

Well, gee - I'm not really sure I belong here anymore.. ;-) .. On that "Who's a writer" thing - I hafta to go with anyone who writes.. I mean, for an awful lot of the people who have ever sucked air, being able to read and write was something the 'elite' did.. even grocery lists.. Hey, to someone who can't read or write, anything written on paper looks the same.. Intent, and quality are another subject entirely - and using them as the criteria for determining "who is a writer" assumes everyone is literate - and that aint so. ***PEGGY*** oooo - you get (got) to talk to HE! Totally cool!! I want to hear the _whole_ thing.. ***ALL*** It's so good to see old friends posting, that I had to De-Lurk. Been busy with real life stuff.. sigh - such an interference to cyberstuff.. I have warm and fond places in the heart for the Webdergang.. And not a lot to add to the "on-topic" stuff, as usual.. There was a ROBOT in TicTockMan??? Try High- Fly Straight - Drive Safe

Otto: perhaps your are right (I doubt it, though Amirin might use this opening to claim so). But if, indeed, Amirin (who seems to aspire to being a pill) was posting with tongue-in-cheek, one would hope he/she could find the time to put his/her brain-in- gear before mouthing off about ego, etc. After all, the money is for charity... DTS (out here, and reined in)

Whoa, there, DTS. I get the feeling that AMIRIN is pecking away with tongue firmly in cheek. At least, I hope so . . .

ASPIRIN...er, um AMIRIN. If no one has answered your sly, insightful posts it's probably because we're all in awe of your clever and oh so poetic writing -- and the way you see through all of us (given that you are a sensitive artiste, and privy to workings of the human condition that only you can understand). Perhaps, someday, we will be worthy of a reply to you. (TO ALL THE REST OF YOU GUYS: is it just me, or do you smell the stench of wanna-be-writerandself-important-pimple-popping-nobody-without a clue hovering around Webderland of late?) -- Cheers, DTS.

So what happened with that 20min phone call, ahem, 1-900 Dial Harlan number? At $25 a minute, you could surely stroke one's ego enough. Hey, I'm a fan, love the writing, met the man... but, again, as the clock ticks ever so quickly toward the burning off of the sun, and the last whispering gasp that is the smoke of this dying world, we are subject again to the liquid dreams of one's terribly huge ego dripping against the backdrop of such sudden madness. Oh, I'm sorry. That would be, um, dripping through your telephone wires. Sic.

Chris: before you start deconstructing, have you READ the story by Ellison, or just watched the film version? (if you haven't yet, you should read the story first; especially before looking for meaning, symbolism, subtext; and especially if you are doing it for school; you can find "A Boy and His DOg" in EDGEWORKS 4, THE ESSENTIAL ELLISON, and a few SF anthologies still in print). ---- DTS

Well I am happy to say that I have just recently come into contact with "A boy and his Dog" and well WOW. I really enjoyed the movie tremendously. But I did find some parts of it confusing. Like the michael robot in the down under....Why did these people have him and why didn't they just make him force Don Johnson's character cooperate in their sperm extraction? In other words what part of the big picture am I missing? Are there any ideas out there on what exactly "downunder" was? i got my own ideas but would greatly appreciate any and all input

Hey Doc, if I come to SF I promise to at least warn you. Of course, I'm VERRRRRY picky about my coffee.... *laf*

CRAIG> Certainty takes all the fun outta things! All I have about the story are suspicions. MITCH> You came to SF, and didn't call on me for a visit?!? I feel slighted -- everyone got to go be chummy at DragonCon, and everything, and I can't even get a visit, a cup coffee and a schtick cake with a guy who shares an Ellisonian interest! O Tempura! O Morays! PETE> I too have to go with Clive (and I do *not* take issue with your literary tastes). I think we have to consider intent, though. Making out a grocery list does not necessarily make me a writer. Selling a piece of my work, likewise, doesn't necessarily make me a *good* writer, either. It sorta comes down to what they tell you in AA -- nobody can decide for you whether you're an alcoholic. Or a writer (they are not always separate entities, either, I must confess). Sweat out every drop of whatever you want to say. Do it with care. Do it with passion. Do it with gusto. But I wouldn't recommend anybody quit their day job. As *I* see it, and I always know better, ask anyone, the days when you can build a writing career out of a pile of paper and a 2nd hand machine are looooooooong gone. The pulps dolled out splendid opportunities; but they also made it possible for every perveyor of dreck who had a desire for reasonably quick cash and half a way with words to soil and saturate the market. As for talent, or whether anyone else likes your work,... well, there are books that, frankly, I wouldn't wipe my ass with (ANNO DRACULA leaps to mind, like a gazelle on ecstacy). Other people eat 'em up. When I have to sit by and watch books I despise succeed when they should vanish from light, all I can do is try to do the job better myself. Which answered nothing for anyone, I'm sure. Y'all don't be strangers 'round the ol' e-corral, y'hear? Muchas Smooches, Doc

Thanks to everyone for their comments about ending of 'Repent Harlequin". I wish I was as sure about it as you all seem to be. Yours, Craig

Rick- I think you've isolated what disturbed me about Paul's rant. Although I have to admit that when I read it I was in the midst of studying for an exam so I was feeling intellectually vulnerable. It is arrogant to judge whether or not someone else is a writer. It's kind of like going up to a man who is proud to call himself a garbage man and saying "no, no, no you're a sanitation director" or some such nonsense. ---Peter

Sorry, but I'm going to have to weigh in with Clive on this one. If you write, you're a writer. Everything else is just semantics and judgement. That may sound funny coming from someone who once wrote an essay entitled "Why I am not a Writer", but it's like the apocryphal story of Winston Churchill asking a haughty society lady if she'd sleep with him for a million pounds. She replied yes. Then he asked her if she'd sleep with him for ten pounds. She replied "What sort of lady do you think I am, Mr. Churchill?" Churchill said "We've already established that - now we're just talking about the price." .... In the first place, I think it's vain and hubritic for us to decide if someone else is a writer. In the second place, we should really be arguing about their expertise and talent as a writer, and the quality of their work...

For as long as I can remember, I have told stories. When I learned to write, I was forever writing something down. In college, they actually gave me money for a poem I wrote (The poem was dedicated to Sylvia Plath and was little more than a suicide note. I laughed when the prof told me, he said I had a fine appreciation for Plath!). Somewhere during the course of the last 15 years of working 3 and 4 jobs at a time, I stopped writing things down so much. The stories didn't go away though, I still need to tell them, so they went oral. Our local paper (pioneerplanet.com)does something that they call the bulletin board. People call or fax or email things and Dan Kelly, the editor, chooses stuff to put in the paper. They've even published books using the material that BBer's submit. Does this make me a writer? I doubt it. (Although it has been good for the precision of my stories - making stories in my head requires that I use the exact right word - but bad for length.) I have written things that I cannot edit after the initial writing period because they are so painful. The few people who have seen them think that I could/should get them published, but I don't think that I could stand that. I had a huge fight that nearly ended a very old friendship because that friend had shown one of those pieces to the editor of a small regional publication. Gutless no doubt. I have never wanted to be famous. Am I a writer if I continue to write from the gut with open veins, but choose to limit my audience? Is being published or seeking to be published the criteria for defining a writer? I generally refer to myself as a storyteller, because that seems a more accurate definition of what I do. The need to write/storytell remains in me. I love the sculpting of them - finding the precise word to fit the flow of the story and the meaning of the story. I have a new job that pays me enough to finally give up being multiply employed, and I am now trying to go back to writing on paper, but it is very hard. Am I a professional writer? Absolutely not. Am I a writer? I guess that that depends on the definition. In my head, there are the stories and the words to tell them and I strive to do that the best that I can. Will I ever make more than the 75$ prize money I got for my suicide note? Couldn't say. So, my vote is, write what's in you. Fame seems pretty pointless anyway. If what's in you requires a bigger audience, than seek it out. If you need a label for what you do, pick something that seems sufficient and ignore the rest. It's all subjective anyway. Well, thanks for the opportunity to ramble on!

I think Maggie hit on a very good point. Does not getting published exclude one from the exclusive club of writerdom? Does getting published make one a writer? In my ever so humble opinion (okay, I'm about as humble as a gold bracelet lined with sapphires) being published or not in no way contributes to a person's status as a writer. I have read books that should never have been printed, and I've read computer copy roughs of works that deserve to grace the pages of any major market magazine. But the problem as I see it is that by not publishing great works of writing, or even just good ones, does the lack of extrinsic confirmation keep a person from achieving the ever so coveted status of writer? I don't think so. I think what I'm trying to get at is the fact that it is unfair to point to people like Ellison and say "They are writers because they have proven themselves over and over again," when there are people out there (probably reading this post) who have also proven themselves. It's just that they haven't proven anything to anyone but themselves and maybe a few close friends and relatives. I'm going to offer a very simple definition of a writer. A writer is some who absolutely must write. It doesn't matter if the stuff is any good. A writer simply must write. Nicole hit on a very good point when she said that the grammar and technical aspects of writing can be learned. But the desire to write is an inate drive that is as necessary to a writer's existence as food, sex, or water. Do I have dreams of fame and money? Yeah, sure, who doesn't? Could I work as an engineer and still be a writer? Yeah, because I know that when I write, I do it because I have stories that want to be released from the confines of my subconscious. Could I make my living as a professional writer? Maybe. That all depends on whether or not people actually want to read what I've written. I am going to make a stand right now and say that I consider myself a writer. Not because I'm good at it. good comes with time. But because I need to write. I need to see words flowing across a page because I put them there. I need to release the voices in my head who tell me what to say next. I need to pour my imagination onto an 8"1/2 X 11" canvas and see what pictures emerge. Do I need to be published? No. It'd be nice. I love to share my work. But it's not neccesary. Do I need fame or money from writing? No. It'd be nice. But completely unneccesary. Do I need to write? Yes. And in fact, I've got to go do that right now. This little bit of rant was my warm up period. I've now got to cut that vein. ---Peter

For as long as I can remember, I have told stories. When I learned to write, I was forever writing something down. In college, they actually gave me money for a poem I wrote (The poem was dedicated to Sylvia Plath and was little more than a suicide note. I laughed when the prof told me, he said I had a fine appreciation for Plath!). Somewhere during the course of the last 15 years of working 3 and 4 jobs at a time, I stopped writing things down so much. The stories didn't go away though, I still need to tell them, so they went oral. Our local paper (pioneerplanet.com)does something that they call the bulletin board. People call or fax or email things and Dan Kelly, the editor, chooses stuff to put in the paper. They've even published books using the material that BBer's submit. Does this make me a writer? I doubt it. (Although it has been good for the precision of my stories - making stories in my head requires that I use the exact right word - but bad for length.) I have written things that I cannot edit after the initial writing period because they are so painful. The few people who have seen them think that I could/should get them published, but I don't think that I could stand that. I had a huge fight that nearly ended a very old friendship because that friend had shown one of those pieces to the editor of a small regional publication. Gutless no doubt. I have never wanted to be famous. Am I a writer if I continue to write from the gut with open veins, but choose to limit my audience? Is being published or seeking to be published the criteria for defining a writer? I generally refer to myself as a storyteller, because that seems a more accurate definition of what I do. The need to write/storytell remains in me. I love the sculpting of them - finding the precise word to fit the flow of the story and the meaning of the story. I have a new job that pays me enough to finally give up being multiply employed, and I am now trying to go back to writing on paper, but it is very hard. Am I a professional writer? Absolutely not. Am I a writer? I guess that that depends on the definition. In my head, there are the stories and the words to tell them and I strive to do that the best that I can. Will I ever make more than the 75$ prize money I got for my suicide note? Couldn't say. So, my vote is, write what's in you. Fame seems pretty pointless anyway. If what's in you requires a bigger audience, than seek it out. If you need a label for what you do, pick something that seems sufficient and ignore the rest. It's all subjective anyway. Well, thanks for the opportunity to ramble on!

Peter - I like the question, but don't know if there's an easy answer, or even an answer. I'm on the editorial board for the city bar (lawyer, not drinker) and write monthly feature articles. Yet, I don't consider myself a "writer". Are "writers" only persons who write fiction? non-fiction? Are newspaper reporters writers? According to Mr. Barker, the answer would be anyone who writes anything is a writer. Yet, my monthly columns aren't even in the same league with Borges, Ellison, Sturgeon, or even Jackie Collins (he he). Those persons are W-R-I-T-E-R-S, to the upteenth degree. Me, I'll just keep punching out my monthly columns. Charlie

Hiya kids. Just got back from San Francisco, and it was booty-ful! Doc - Check out the Hokusai exhibit at the Asian Art museum, if you haven't already. Terrific stuff. All - Time for me to chime in on "Tick Tock Man". I thought he WAS a robot. I mean, it made sense. Only a machine could be as punctual as the TTM needed to be to do the job. A society with that tech level could have created him. He wore that mask all the time. And the "mrmee mrmee"s seemed to confirm it. And could I sound geekier? Mitch

Wow! Big question there. I struggle with that one myself sometimes, and since you asked for all of our opinions, my own humble one included, I would have to say that yes, it is writing that makes one, in the broadest definition, a writer, but there is so much more that makes people like Harlan Ellison deserve the label "writer". To be a true writer in every sense of the word, you must grow with every word you put down on the page. You have to let your own blood drip all over everything you write, and you must do this fearlessly, even when it stings. It should be as necessary to your continued existence as breathing and eating. Someone said "Writing is easy. All you do is sit down at a typewriter and open a vein." That's about all you have to do. Grammer, it's essential, and I do mean *essential*- nothing is worse or more distracting than a wonderful story written with no thought for that sort of thing whatsoever. But that you can learn out of a book. True writing isn't that way. What I say basically is tell the truth, be complete, feel, get into your work, obsess yourself with the page, and only then, when it becomes your life, can you truly call yourself a writer.

Hi everybody. I'm just letting loose a little steam so I don't go and overload my left brain in a futile attempt to cram four weeks of physics (circuits) into one night. Okay so the task isn't that impossible, but a break is definitely in order. I just read the most recent guest rant and as (apparently) one of the self-delusional writer wannabes I have to propose a question. What draws the line between an actual writer and a perpetual neophyte with all the grammatical skill of an irish wolf-hound chewing up a pencil? I've heard two views on this. One is the Clive Barker view (I won't be bated into an argument on my tastes) that once someone begins to write, that person is a writer. Then there is the view that is taken by the rant and several others I know (and in my humble, yet flexible opinion, it borders on elitist) that a writer is someone who is in essence addicted to the act of creating meaningful grammatical constructs. Me, I'm trying my damndest right now to study rather than sit and pound out two stories and an essay that have been beating on the inside of my head like Athena. People don't necessarily like what I write (and I'm usually the first person to admit if something is crap) So what does that make me? Why does it seem that a simple question has turned to a quest for vindication from my peers. Why am I asking questions when I should be off studying Kirchhoff's rule, Ohm's law and multiloop RC circuits. Well, if anybody can decipher what I've written, your better than I. Okay, back to studying. ---Peter

Peg: Actually it has already been performed at the New England Conservatory in Boston. I'm presenting it to my class PURELY for educational purposes...I'm bringing along my copy of Mindfields to the class to give them a look at the other works in the book as well. Troy hasn't done ALL the pieces in MINDFIELDS, though last week he told me he's starting on 2 more works from the book. There is some talk of adaptation for television in the future, but nothing definite. I am merely borrowing a tape of the performance with slide from Troy for my presentation. Maybe in the future we can all enjoy watching a performance of these works (which are actually meant to be a ballet in the final version) on cable. Who knows... ----- Shaz

*SHAZ* - wow, thanks for the info on the work Troy is doing, it sounds fab! I was unaware but will be sure to ask HE about it with my phone call *sly grin*. Do you know if the plans are to release that on interactive CD or video or other??? Well, anyway, glad to get the heads up on it, but completely jealous that your class gets the preview. *laf* - Peg

Doc: My condolences also on your loss--you would have gotten them sooner, but I hadn't read the backlog of Bulletin Board messages when I posted my inquiry. I think magic realism might need to be mentioned in my presentation. What I'm doing, is presenting a piece from MINDFIELDS ("Susan") as an example of his work. And the way I'm presenting it is a bit different... I don't know if any of you have read postings about this in the past, but Troy Wayne (currently completing his masters in music at the New England Conservatory in Boston) has composed a series of modern classical pieces to go with the works from MINDFIELDS...with Ellison's and Ellison's agent's full cooperation, support, and enthousiasm. Since he's my best friend, it was no problem to get him to send me a tape of a recorded performance of "Susan" (i.e. the music with narration of the story) and a slide of the Jacek Yerka painting that goes with it. I will be showing the painting in class while playing the recorded narration with music. I thought this would work better to stir interest in Ellison's work than a brief synopsis of one of his too-long-to-read-aloud-in-class short stories. This goes in conjunction with a brief biographical and genre/bibliographical introduction to HE. That's why I wanted the categories. I'm not trying to pigeon-hole him...just trying to make him more accessible to a new audience. Thanks DTS for your definition of magic realism--beats the hell out of the definition I found in my reference books at home. And thanks Peg for the well-intentioned warning and advice. Cheers, Shaz

FYI: the comment below by Doc (about Hemingway not dying of old age)reminded me: In February (along about the 10th or so) Dan Simmons' new novel THE CROOK FACTORY will be out. I finshed an advance copy a few weeks ago. It's dynamite. Early in 1942, Rogue FBI agent Joe Lucas is given an assignment by Director Hoover to head to Cuba (under the guise of a State Department liason) and investigate and amateur spy network -- specifically, to dig up everything he can on the network (dubbed the "Crook Factory" by its leader), what its real mission is, and what it's leader and orginator, Ernest Hemingway, is really up to. Suffice to say that the characterization, action and plot are never less than excellent. A real Five Star read. What's more, Simmons' notes after the book, advising that 95 percent of the events in the novel are true, confirm what us "paranoid" folks always knew -- the FBI WAS folllowing Hemingway, right up until he blew his brains out (just after the second shock treatment, hastened after friends and family decided he was really losing it, cause he kept "seeing" FBI agents in restuarants and rear-view mirrors). Anyway, those who've read Simmons (an Ellison "discovery") know he's never less than very good. So mark your calendars for Feb. '99, cause this one's a corker. ---- DTS.

Now that I mention it, has anyone read the Riddeller's rant? I speak of our own beloved Paul T. -- great stuff. Go. Read it. Now. Honest-Injun writers *never* wonder why Hemmingway *didn't* die of old age.

First, a hardy round of Thank You, Mask-Mans to all who offered sympathies and condolensces. It helped much in getting me through a rough time. RE: "Repent Harlequin," forgive me if I decline to explain anything to anyone, or even offer an opinion -- this is definitely one of those times when you have to decide for yourself what it means. SHAZ> Great to see you posting again! You're right, pidgeon-holing Harlan is too tricky; unfortunately, all I can say is, Ellison planned it that way. Yes, he done it on purpose, and all I can give you by way of recommendation is to pore over the stories in LOVE AIN'T NOTHING BUT SEX MISSPELLED. Maybe that will help you get a better handle on things. In it, HE tosses the restrictions of genre aside like they were his college roommate's month-old sweat socks. If they insist that you must label the man and/or his work, tell them that he's a writer, period. He writes fiction, reviews, essays, the whole schmear. If you have to pin anything on him, perhaps "fantasist" would cover the situation sufficiently. Mentioning that he had a story chosen for BEST AMERICAN SHORT STORIES 1993 (over which accomplishment, Harlan is *still* kvelling) might get them to sit down and hush. Lots of luck. I'm accused of reviewing LOVE AIN'T NOTHING, and have enjoyed a particularly difficult time of it, because *I* can't quite get the necessary handle on it myself -- it's all pretty straight-forward stuff, sharp, painful and gorgeous. PETE> San Jose, eh? Next time you're in SF, let me know and maybe we can hit Just Desserts for coffee. Ciao, Doc

SHAZ, here ie, once again, my (measly) two-cents worth: science fiction (as determined by those who write it, cause I'm paraphrasing from past essays and discussions) is fiction in which an element of the story hinges on something scientifically possible or probable (even though, the judges of such often fudge and let stories using time travel or faster-than-light travel fall under that umbrella). (That's something I figure you're already familiar with, but what the hell, I put it here for the benefit of others). That, of course, is why the majority Ellison's stories don't fall into the SF category. And since they don't always fall into horror (or mystery, or dark fantasy), people always have a hard time pigeon-holing him (which is good). If you have to present him in the clothes of category, I'd say "magic realism" is the best phrase (Ellison has even said he is "one" with the South American writers (Borges, Llosa, Marquez) who claim this label. So here's a definition of magic realism: mainstream, or realistic, writing with a touch of the fantastic -- that is, an element of surrealism which throws off the entire view of the story (and often the characters in it), in such a way that the standard view of reality (our own, and that of the fictional characters) is called into question and held up to the light for closer examination. (in fact, you might even call Ellison a Surrealist, the fictional equivalent of Dali or Jacek Yerka -- for the most part...course, that would exclude stories like "Soft Monkey," "Niether Your Jenny, nor Mine," etc, etc.; this categorization stuff does seem to hinder one, don't it?). Hope that helps. Out here, DTS.

*Shaz* - my apologies if I came off too hard, seems I've stuck my foot in up to the knee! I agree, there is a lot of Ellisonia which is definitely science fiction. And trying to explain it all to the class as you describe sounds like a challenge. It could be a chance to let the uninitiated see HE as more than a "SciFi" writer. I suppose that depends on which of HE's works you are going to focus on for your presentation. ***********----------------************ I'm with you on magic realism - got no idea how to describe it since I haven't read Borge or any others mentioned as magic realists. On speculative fiction, though, I think you might define it by example. We've mentioned several examples of both the science fiction and the speculative fiction. Maybe you could contrast the story and setting elements from a couple of examples. Or compare a couple of HE fiction works to some hard science fiction - the Robinson MARS series, Haldeman's the Forever War, Niven's Ringworlds - there are lots of great contrasts. ***********----------------************ In any case, I'm sure you'll do a great job because you really enjoy the subject matter. Good Luck, The Pegster

Peg: I am VERY aware of Harlan's intolerance of the sci-fi label, which incidentally (according to HE) is something completely different from science fiction. Some of Harlan's work, though, is clearly science fiction: "I Have No Mouth and I Must Scream," "I'm Looking for Kadak" (which I would classify as somewhere between science fiction and fantasy). I'm aware that he writes many types of fiction and non-fiction--one need only to look at the Ellison section of my bookshelves to know that. But my problem is when presenting an unknown entity (Ellison) to a American Literature class full of non-native speakers who are attending a Dutch university whose English department is LARGELY British-literature dominated, I'm going to have to use SOME categories when describing what Ellison writes. And when I say the words "speculative fiction" and see the sea of blank stares in response, I'm going to be pressed for an explanation of what "speculative fiction" is. Also, I've read that some of Ellison's work steps over into the realm of "magic realism," which as I've said before, I'm VERY IFFY on the definition of. -Shaz

Shaz-I feel for your plight. I was sitting in my creative writing class when the professor asked each of us who our literary influences were. I thought maybe I'd say something like Swift or Voltaire, you know, earn some points with the prof. Well, while they have had an influence on my writing, they are not the most prominent influences. So I said Harlan Ellison. The first words out of my professor's mouth were "He writes that science fiction stuff, doesn't he?" My jaw dropped and I knew it was going to be a long semester. . . to the point. I think the most innocuous label you could give him would be "fantasist" but whenever I'm asked what he writes, I just tell people "good literature" Of course, I'm the guy who wrote four introductions to his review before deciding to stick with the first, so what do I know? excuse the messiness of thought here, I'm on cold medication. ---Peter "The Silly One" (sometimes)

---***--- soapbox alert ---***--- *SHAZ* - prewarning here, this isn't meant to be abuse. It just sounds that way. *laf* Harlan Ellison absolutely loathes, despises, use an adjective of your choice here, being classified as Sci Fi. He may be tolerant of speculative fiction. IIRC, he doesn't like his writing *categorized* because of it's breadth. Even to use the label speculative fiction is limited since HE has also written westerns, mysteries, screenplays, teleplays, movies, scripts, and probably a thousand things I don't know about. And that doesn't begin to touch on all of his non-fiction commentaries, columns, essays, etc. ----------------_____________------------------- That being said.... I think, for that fiction work which displays a not-quite-reality-as-we-know-it twist, speculative fiction is about as good as it gets. Look at Mefisto in Onyx. There's no "science fiction" about it. There's only one "unreal" or "supernatural" element in the story - the ability to read minds or to "jump" into someone elses mind. Everything else in the story is much more like a modern day 20th century mystery. It deals with very human issues and interactions and reality as it is and as we believe it. Or "Jeffty is Five". Again, only one odd element - a small boy who doesn't age. The POV is a person who is friends with this boy but does grow up. He relates the strangeness of this situation, the fear and alienation the parents come to fear, and other human reactions to this bizarre fact. So, how would you classify those? ----------------_____________------------------- Take a look at the bibliographies available. Rick has links to several of them on the Webderland site. Tell your class not about HE as a SciFi writer, but HE as a writer of extreme breadth and range of work. It'd do more good. Good luck, I hope your efforts to educate your classmates and instructor are successful! Peg

Hi all! I need some learned advice. I'm planning on doing a presentation for my American Literature class on Ellison. Honestly--my professor didn't know who he is! (Only a couple of students know who he is ONLY BECAUSE of his connection to Babylon 5 and "City on the Edge of Forever." My problem is, I don't know exactly how to categorize his fiction. I've heard it called science fiction, speculative fiction, and even magic realism. I'm not sure how speculative fiction differs from science fiction and am even more iffy on an accurate definition of magic realism. Could someone please help? Thanks, Shaz

Since it's become a much debated topic of late (starting after that post from the guy who didn't "get" the end of "'Repent Harlequin!..." [and though it's probably not PC or even polite, I can't believe a person could fail to understand THAT Ellison story given its explicitness]),I decided to put my two-cents worth in (I know -- not worth much, but I never claimed it was). So. Regarding the sound that The Tick Tock Man makes at the end of the story. When I was a kid, back in the sixties, I remember my Dad had this self-winding watch (with a few other gizmos that were considered cutting edge) and every once in a while (when it was rewinding?) it made a weird, high-pitched sound, kinda like mmrmee, mrrmee, mrrmee. One day it finally wound too tight, weirded out and stayed in that mode, going mrrmee, mrrmee, mrrmee until my dad stomped on it or something. Anyway, I've always associated the sound at the end of the story with a wristwatch that was wound too tight, and therefore would never run correctly again. End of story. -- Out here, DTS.

You know, Rick, you only post that type of info on just about a *gazillion* spots on this site, and yet STILL people just don't GET IT! You win the perserverance award, buddy. ---------------_________--------------- back to other stuff. Thanks for the conversation suggestions so far. I'm working on a few of my own, and the date is being negotiated. ---------------_________--------------- As far as RHSTTTM, I agree with Rick's assessment. When I read the story, I just took the "mmree" as a sign that the TTM had gone off his rocker, probably related to re-programming Everett Marm. I *NEVER* thought he was a robot, or anything else. But then I miss the deeper meaning of stories on a frequent basis... ---------------_________--------------- Ta for now, Peg

FYI.... I am going to let that post remain (even though it is a bit of a conversation killer, eh wot?). But Harlan Ellison has NOT been "e-mailed", Harlan Ellison doesn't have e-mail. If you want to communicate something this important and complicated to the man, for Chrissake use a stamp, okay?

Dear people: This is a call for real help. The following email message to Harlan Ellison, a well known author and activist on civil rights and killer of censorship, was written in response to a tragedy several thousand of us here in Augusta, Kansas, share. This is only the beginning. This call will be repeated until answered and enacted. Red tape notwithstanding, etc. Dear friends: This is a call for help. I am speaking on behalf of the flood victims in Augusta, Kansas, including myself, who have been robbed of their entire lives by the gross incompetence, stupidity, and apathy of the authority figures here. We, the flood victims, are in the middle of a disaster, homelessness on the verge of winter, and the media, city fathers, police, and national guard are in the midst of denial. We, the people, will not be denied. The problem we have with this flood is simply that we were not warned. The "people in charge" knew that the dike around the city had no hope of holding the floodwaters of the Walnut and whitewater rivers, yet they informed no one. Hundreds of homes were completely destroyed, complete with all posessions, half the business section will fold. Simply because we were not warned, even when the water was washing us away. I was in the IGA less than 30 minutes before the flood hit, and it was business as usual. I simply could not believe what I was seeing. I'd been working like a maniac all day trying to help friends move as much as they could, because I pay attention to national weather service, not the home town boys. I was in a friends' house putting books, family albums and pictures, art, and everything else I could up as high as I could while the street outside was a raging river, and the water was coming in fast. In a panic, I escaped the flood, only to find spectators and police watching the river rise in downtown Augusta. The police were maintaining barricades on flooded roads (at 7th. and Walnut were five police cars, directing traffic away from the flood converging on 7th. and Walnut), and a "command post," while they could hear people, frantic to save their most valued posessions, screaming for help. The police call themselves "the department of safety." Safety, in this case means police vehicles blocking the way to flooded streets. They believe they are immune to responsibility. I am going to prove that they are not. They are not safe from me, or anyone else here who lost so much. The national guard had trucks and men here, safely on high ground, helping to direct traffic. There is talk of FEMA and Red Cross relief, but no one believes it's real, especially since all we hear are rumors of red tape. No one believes in the system here anymore, not after this. I intend to use this as a means of destroying this authoritarian system that galliantly postures their authority while people are hurt. They don't care now, but we will make them care. This is the time to strike at the heart of the media, police, city management, and belief systems that let us drown. I am making the best use I can of it. Never in my life have I lived in such a hostile enviornment. At a meeting of citizens this morning, November 3, 1998, the police were called in to "intercede" while hundreds of completely out of control tempers raged around the city manager and his bedfellows. A friend told me that the first thing the business owners, who had just lost 100% of thier busineses, said was, "there aint no freebies." This means that the people who let us drown will be held responsible. I absolutely agree with this. I have determined not to rest until everyone who holds a position of authority, from the uncaring local police, all the way up to re-elected (today) governer Bill Graves, loses their jobs over this; after they sell their homes and posessions (if possible, in a class action suit), and donate the proceeds to the victims of this flood. But nothing they can do now will be enough. It's too late. It's not to late for us to screw them right back though. This may seem unrealistic. However, I've read Ellison's An Edge In My Voice and there was a time when more than 2000 people picketed NBC for the cancellation of the Lew Grant show. I know that things can be done, if we can get organized, get the goddam media to tell the truth, and fill out the right paperwork. We need lawyers who will fight the system that let us drown. We need global exposure on an unprecedented scale. Augusta may be nowhere, in the greater scheme of things, and I may be nobody, now that my future is obliterated; but I see it this way, I'm the child who can say, 'the emperor has no clothes.' I just need the right people to say it to, in the right forums. I will. I need to learn how to write up an iron-clad petition, which I will circulate among my friends and neighbors, as they shovel the muck of their memories and dreams out the front doors of their ruined homes, that will be sent to whomever it can be sent to. I am not limited in scope, and I have nothing else to do after I help clean up the mess. If you have any suggestions for this they would be greatly appreciated. I want global exposure on the internet, and part of that exposure is this letter. This is the first effort of my Augusta, Kansas, flood 98 Starr Report. I will not stop with this, until the system here is fundamentally changed, and the people who run that system are completly replaced with people who can think for themselves, make hard decisions and do their jobs right: I've spent the last fifteen years learning how to do just that. This is my day in the world Internet court, and I want to see, now, who really cares. sincerely, Lloyd Wallace Goode 32 Bluff St Augusta, KS 67010

$25 a minute... the clock ticks, ever so quickly, toward the final burning off of the sun, the last gasp of this world, the liquid dreams of one's ego dripping through the sky and the backdrop of THIS madness...

$25 a minute... the clock ticks, ever so quickly, toward the final burning off of the sun, the last gasp of this world, the liquid dreams of one's ego dripping through the sky and the backdrop of THIS madness...

Peggy, congrats and have a great conversation with Harlan. If you're interested in subject suggestions, you might ask how goes the fight to restrict the expansion of the school on the watershed land behind Harlan's house, when will he next appear on the Late, Late Show with Tom Snyder, or what he's working on currently. Best, Shane

Peggy- Congratulations on your winning bid. I'm sure your 20 minute conversation will well be worth the $500 as it'll be a memory that sticks with you until you die. That's worth $500, right? ALL- the sf channel is broadcasting Trouble w/Tribbles tonight @ 7:30. I betcha David Gerrold will be giving bridging commentary and I also lay wager he'll mention that other popular episode which beat him out of the Hugo. (and it ain't the Sturgeon episode) Oh which episode could it be... Charlie

So, yes, I did it, I donated $500 for a 20 minute phone call. I *CAN'T* believe I did it. Just wait till my husband finds out!!! Well, at least the money was donated to a good charity. Why else have money if you can't do some good and have some fun? [Okay, webderfolks, break in here anytime and help me rationalize this impulsive manuever] .......-------....... *NICOLE* you're right, just using the phone book and calling him out of the blue would have been cheaper (heck, probably could flown down and knocked on his door!]. But, this way the money went to charity. More importantly, it would have been impolite of me and an imposition on an incredibly busy guy. Let's face it, it's not like I have a reason to call him. I'm not a writer, I don't work with him, I'm not asking for advice or discussing a review; I'm just some woman whose read his books, etc. and wants to meet him. Unca Harlan's made it no secret he doesn't appreciate intrusions taking up his time. Somehow, I don't think he would have enjoyed some total stranger calling him up to chat, doesn't matter what kind of person I am. .......-------....... *RICK* Thanks for the encouragement. I know I've heard far more accounts of how nice HE is (at least on here). I'll just try to make sure my own behavior doesn't provoke any unpleasant reactions... As for the money, well... My husband and I try to be generous with what we have; and we've been blessed a lot in recent years. However, my husband may have some other ideas on that once he finds out about this!! *ALL* Boy, I've just taken up WAY too much board space on this. I promise to fill you in on the conversation when it happens. Until then......... Peg

$500 to talk to Harlan himself?! I'd rather pay the phone bill and take my chances. Now, if I could just find time to get my review done, I could do it for free. Then again, I was contemplating calling him to talk writing and such (I have a few things I've been meaning to discuss since June), but good luck getting hold of him, I know. My days have been filled with class and homework (pulling a 3.4 average, be happy for me), and my weekends filled with shopping and going to Goth clubs and concerts with my friends, but I *will* get that review done, even if I have to tie myself to the computer! I tried to get pictures at our last club venture, but we only had two on the camera, and I wasn't in them. We do have a nice informal group shot taken on campus, and as soon as I get that developed, you can see for yourself how far I've risen (but some of you may say sunk) into the world of Gothdom.

ON 20-MINUTE PHONE CONVOS: I can guarantee as a charity item Harlan would undoubtedly not bite your head off - and I can also guarantee the guy can fill 20 minutes worth of conversation. I wouldn't sweat that worry, if you're gonna be worried worry about figuring out what amenity you will give up for the next month to get the $500.00. ON TICKTOCKMAN: Shoot, I forgot to e-mail my answer on this - I think the mrmeeing of the TickTockMan is just a sign that the TTM has gone slightly off his rocker (which in the context of the story is a GOOD thing as it indicates our protagonist's efforts have not been in vain) - I've never heard deeper meaning ascribed to it, and Harlan practically foamed at the suggestion a few years back that the sound meant the TTM was a robot.

First, I've help from had several wonderful folks, thanks to all of you! [side comment - you know, I've been very lucky that in the entirety of my dealings on bulletin boards - and that's going back a ways, folks - I've rarely encountered pinheads but have general found kind, fun, friendly folks. I'd like to think it's my taste in BBs but no one's that smart. HE ain't entirely correct about ALL denizens of the net...] ---------*********---------- Here's the scoop so far. No one's bid on the item yet - that $500 figure is the minimum bid per Harlan. I suppose based on his fees for a speaking engagement that $500 for 20 minutes is a bargain. I've called the folks at the charity auction, they are checking with FirstAuction to see if we can work a phone bid, and I should hear back soon. Now I just have to decide if I can get up the gumption to actually place a $500 bid. *cringe* It -is- for charity after all....right?! ---------*********---------- *FINDER* *ugh* I would NEVER ask such a thing; I plan to avoid any reference to as yet unfinished works, when the next whatever is coming out, etc. Given HE's low tolerance for fools and ingrates, I was planning to spend *significant* time coming up with a few hopefully intelligent questions and subjects. And to practice not talking so I don't waste that time!!! (hey, there's a reason my email is "trbotongue") Frankly the idea of a -private- conversation is, well, intimidating. I mean, what could I possibly say to the man that would be worth his time?? ---------*********---------- Well, it should all be settled in the next hour or two. The Pegster

As of 8:50 a.m. MST 11/02/98, the bidding on the private call to Harlan is up to $500.00. I did a search on H.E. on the Amazon.Com site and I found these three AUDIO BOOK titles: "The Greatest Mysteries of All Time, Vol.II" "The Greatest Mystery Stories of the 20th Century" and "The Odyssey." Has any one heard these tapes? In the first two, what stories is Harlan reading? Any opinions? Thanks, Shane

Oh, and while I'm not sleeping...CRAIG: I've always interpreted the end of "Repent..." like this: Everett, although he has been broken and has not caused a major revolution against the system, has in a small way (through their encounter) affected the Ticktockman. Before meeting Everett face to face, the Ticktockman wouldn't have simply told a subordinate (obviously terrified of him) to 'check his watch' with regards to his (Ticktockman's) lateness, nor would he have dismissed a three minute schedule slip. Ticktockman has been changed by Everett. How? Now THAT's a good question. As for the "mrmee mrmee" sound, I have a dual theory: first, with it's mechanical flavor, it portents that the system has begun to break down (after all, if the Ticktockman can be three minutes late, there's the potential for anyone to be late); and second, if you want a real stretch, think of Everett's name: Everett Marm. Or, if you're into abbreviating, E. Marm. Or, if you're listing people, such as in a directiory of names, Marm, E. Now, say it and slur past the "a" in "Marm". Close to "mrmee", wouldn't you say? Another sign that Ticktockman has been changed by Everett? Only the author could tell you for sure...Finder

Maybe it's me...in checking the info on the charity auction, understanding the constraints of software that require specific fields to be entered (such as the 0.01 lb shipping weight that is listed), does it strike anyone else as odd that a charity auction for a phone call has a $4.99 shipping and handling charge attached to it? Perhaps it's cynical Sunday here in the Nation's Capitol, but that sounds very strange to me considering the only thing that's getting handled is a check to a charitable foundation...And on a lighter note: what, pray tell, are the terms of the 90-day limited warranty? ("If you aren't completely satisfied, we're very sorry. You're on your own. We presumed if you bid to have Harlan Ellison call you that you knew what you were leaving yourself open to. Perhaps asking him why he hasn't finished "Blood's A Rover" wasn't such a brilliant idea, huh Einstein?") Chuckles -- Finder

I was going to read "Repent Harlequin" aloud to my kids this morning when I realized that I don't really understand the last bit; after "Or, to make the point lucidly:"... Is it Everett who grins sheepishly & goes back into his office going "mrmee,mrmee. And why "mrmee,mrmee" ? Is that the point, that although he's been caught & "treated" he can't be broken; he still rocks the boat & does things that are "meaningless? i.e still doesn't conform. That's what I thought but I'm not sure & it's the first thing my kids will want to know. Yours, Craig Brittain

BTW, Rick's booth is *nifty*. And you'll recognize the photo shots... (or you oughta!). Thanks for the latest updates Rick; as always, very appreciated (even if we don't always say something about it). Peg

Help Webderfriends!!!! *aaaaaaaaaarrrrrgggggggghhhhhh* .......___________________....... No, wait, that didn't quite express enough frustration. Let's try this again .......___________________....... *AAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH* .......___________________....... You may recall that I live and work in Alaska, rarely get a trip *outside* and have languished of opportunities to meet or speak or ever hear Harlan Ellison. So, joy of joys, I read on wonderful Rick's website that SciFi Con is auctioning off phone time with Harlan!!! Finally, a legitimate chance to chat with HE, without worrying about whether or not it's deserved or if he'd even want to and all the self-concious inferiority crap, cause I get to donate to charity for it!!! ........___________________...... So, lickety-splits, I jump that link right over to the auction page, and what do I find, but that my glorious employer (who ain't all bad, after all they pay me gobs to do something I like, but more on that in a moment) has ***BLOCKED THE @Q#(&#& SITE!!!!!!****. Meaning that until I go home from this tour, I CANNOT BID! And I'm stuck here till after the bidding is over. I can't even find out if there's a phone number I can call to bid. *sigh* .......___________________....... I'm starting to get really frustrated with the whole trying to see HE experience. How many years do I have to wait?! .......___________________....... Here's where I'm hoping I can depend on the charity of others. First chance - Is there a webderfolk who can find out if there is a phone number I can call for the auction? I would be in undying gratitude if someone could provide it to me. I suspect that this is wishful thinking, that there's no phone number though, so ........___________________....... Heck, I'm a woman of action (at least, occasionally *smirk*) so here's what I'm willing to do Option 2: I'm looking for a webderland faithful to join with me in this quest. If you will do the on-line auction bidding, I will SHARE the phone call with you. Yes, that's right, I'll do it as a conference call (*this is assuming Unca Harlan agrees that this is OK*). Heck, you don't even have to provide the cash. Just make sure the bid is in both our names, I'll provide all the ante for the bid!! Truly, I'm serious. Hey, I get the chance to meet HE *and* someone from Webderland. Besides, I work for big oil, they pay me a lot, so I can afford some cash for this. And it was my birthday (the 18th) and I didn't really get a gift, so this would be perfect! ........___________________...... Well, there's my plea. I know, for some of you this is no big deal. But I have always wanted to meet HE and just never seem to get the chance. ........___________________...... The auction goes till Nov. 2nd. If any of you webderboard folks are sincerely interested, please contact me at my business email (*grosetpa@bp.com*) and we can swap phone numbers and discuss details (like how much I'm willing to bid) & logistics & such. ........___________________...... The Pegster

Yes, that's my SciFiCon booth. For more info (and other news) check out the Webderland news page RIGHT THIS MINUTE!!!!!!!

Speaking of Moorcock... I just picked up Neil Gaiman's new short story collection SMOKE AND MIRRORS. It contains his story "One Life, Furnished in Early Moorcock" Maybe I'll actually get to the story this weekend. by the way, Gaiman admits to taking the title from Ellison.

Finder- There may also be a collaboration with Mike Moorcock per HE's interview in B5 magazine. Charlie

FYI: for your amusement, I found (via the "Locus Magazine" website, this "Day With Ellison" set up by none other than R. Wyatt, located here: )www.scifi,com/scifi.con/word/). If that address fails, just swing on over to www.locusmag.com --- DTS

Finder: Yeah, Ellison is collaborating with Bradbury, Dan Simmons, and Connie Willis on some new stories that (along with the tale written with Neil Gaiman) are supposed to be in the reissue of PARTNERS IN WONDER (otherwise known as Edgeworks 6). -- DTS

DOC - Many condolences on the loss of your great aunt. It's been some time since a piece of my own heart has been stilled by the encroachment of such events, and if I had my way it would remain so for many decades to come (my powers, however, are somewhat limited in that regard); after my good friend Joe died, for me it was sneaky little things; a new Clive Cussler novel (one of his favorite authors) would depress me to weeping, and Warner Brothers cartoons brought fits of anxiety and loss for some time. I feel for you...MAGGIE - I don't think a candle in the window is silly in the least. Quite the opposite, in fact...ALEX - I've had to hard-copy your review so I can read it uninterrupted; I began reading thrice, and my AOHell connection is being persnickety again, so it bombed me out mid-introduction all three times. So far, I think it's great - and I'm looking forward to the rest...NICOLE - I'll cop to being almost blissfully ignorant about the whole Goth thing. Zero interest, even from an informational standpoint. But that isn't to say it's either valid or irrelevant; just not my speed (I'm just beginning to understand Miles Davis' electric period as it is - don't tax me with more sensory input...); but I think it's great if it appeals to you as something to do, and if you want to explore that side of yourself, you should. You won't know if it's for you unless you do. So have fun, and forget the nay-sayers. (This should not be construed as a cart blanche "Abandon all rational thought and act like a lunatic.")(Sorry, I have three sisters and sometimes that big brother instinct kicks in at the darndest times...) THOSE IN THE KNOW - Is the tale reported elsewhere that HE is collaborating with Ray Bradbury on a new story for Edgeworks 6 true, or just some internet fantasy? I know about the story written with Neil Gaiman, but no others...ALL - Take care and I'll catch up with you on the flip-side...Finder

Hi all. As a long time fan of HEs, I am pleased he's coming to Beantown this Friday eve. Unfortunatly, I'm doing Dad stuff. Hey, HE's great, but kids first, yes? Anyway, is HE doing a signing or something else in our fair city that weekend? -Oz

Apologies - my computer told me that the message didn't go through and to try later. When I checked later the message hadn't been posted, so I sent it again. Actually, my computer seems to hate daylight savings time as much as I do - it's been acting up all day! Again - I'm sorry.

Doc - My condolences on the passing of your great aunt. I have reached the age where the older members of my family are going on and it is very difficult. When my Grandfather passed away I was about as unseemly as a member of my family gets. I am not, unfortunately, one of those quiet, dignified weepers. I can only say in my defense that I stood with my cousins and held my sister's hand and sang "Abide with me" and only lost it once. The trip to the funeral was a nightmare (Grandpa lived out west), but I am glad I made the trip so that I could sing for my Grandfather one last time. Whenever I am missing him, and I am home, I light a candle and put it in the window. Very silly no doubt, but he was such a light in my life, that I find comfort in it. I have always thought that Angry Candy was HE's best to date and the intro always gets me.

Doc - My condolences on the passing of your great aunt. I have reached the age where the older members of my family are going on and it is very difficult. When my Grandfather passed away I was about as unseemly as a member of my family gets. I am not, unfortunately, one of those quiet, dignified weepers. I can only say in my defense that I stood with my cousins and held my sister's hand and sang "Abide with me" and only lost it once. The trip to the funeral was a nightmare (Grandpa lived out west), but I am glad I made the trip so that I could sing for my Grandfather one last time. Whenever I am missing him, and I am home, I light a candle and put it in the window. Very silly no doubt, but he was such a light in my life, that I find comfort in it. I have always thought that Angry Candy was HE's best to date and the intro always gets me.

If you can't find the pic, I'm not gonna tell you. :) It was taken in my newly-abandoned hippie good girl phase. And besides, there's not one picture there where I don't look dorky. In fact, I believe that one of me with Harlan was taken moments before I ducked my head down and got told off for not looking up. And I promise I'll get some good Goth pictures this weekend, if I can get my hands on a camera, that is. We're going clubbing, so these should be interesting.

Okay, I have to take umbrage with the Neil Gaiman comment. Okay, maybe not. But I'd hardly label him as the uncrowned king of Goth. Just because a guy dresses in black and has a dark imagination doesn't make him Goth (unless of course someone can provide me proof positive that he identifies himself as a part of the Goth movement) and as for Harlan "hanging around with him" Gaiman has already proved himself as a writer worth his salt. Besides, if Harlan has anything going for him (besides a lot of talent) its an excellent taste in literature (which is why he'll probably never read any of my stuff). Neverwhere is a marvelous story. Good Omens (I admit that I'm a huge fan of Terry Pratchett) is one of the better stories about Apocalypse I have ever read. So Harlan's hanging out with Gaiman niether detracts nor lends any credance to the goth movement... why am I ranting? Oh, its 11:37 pm although yesterday this time would have been 12:37 am. I hate this time of year. This weekend is one of the few times you can get jetlagged without actually going anywhere. of course, I get jetlagged flying from San Jose to Los Angeles, don't ask me why, I just do. What was my point besides blowing off a lot of undirected anger for the inhumanity of society? Uh, I didn't have one. Nevermind. I'll be quiet now. my lips are sealed and my fingers are locked in chinese finger cuffs. maybe thats why my typing is so bad. Ignore the man behind the curtain, he's just mopping up. Ignore the man behind the curtain. ---Peter

Hidely-ho, neighbors! NICOLE - Bully for you! I love Goths...with BBQ sauce ;-) Where's that pic posted? Have fun, and give a Ventrue a wedgie for me. DOC - One of my fraternity brothers died last week. After the memorial service, I got it in my head to reread that AC intro. Then I read your post. Unreal...best wishes to you and yours. Mitch

**Bill** In your dreams. Although we now have a snapshot into your fantasy life that we could probably have done without. :-] Steisand - gimme a flamin' break. oh wait, The Approaching Oblivion Streisand references. You sly devil - that was Ellison content in the land of 6 degrees of separation wasn't it? ** Nicole** Whoah girl. In the words of Hunter S. Thompson from Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas - "I'm your friend - I'm not like the others" I'm the one on this list that likes Goth. I own more Cure than you can shake an amulet at. I think "Kiss Me, Kiss Me, Kiss Me" and "Pornography" are brilliant. If I wanted to piss you off I would simply write a letter. Besides which the altrnative look these days for your demographic is guys in bowling shirts that their Uncle had the good sense to throw out and FionaApplets [c.1998] engaged in heroin chic. Do what you want. And everyone dissing Goth should probably be consistant and throw away their copies of "Dark Destiny" , "Dante's Disciples" "Gargoyles", etc. and make fun of Harlan for hanging with the likes of Neil Gaiman [the uncrowned King of Goth]. Who, by the way, is a really NICE guy. C'mon folks - check out the red eyed shot of Nicole posted already. Perfect Goth chick. Probably looks better in a corsett than Marlyn Manson too! *** ps. Gaiman - the splatterpunks - and half the goth writers owe their literary existence to "The Whimper Of Whipped Dogs" and the poor tortured ghost of Kitty Genovese. ** everybody else - you can't win if you don't play... wanders offstage muttering "she should have died hereafter, tomorrow and tomorrow and tomorrow creeps in this petty pace...

Just catching up on the postings here--wow. First, *NICOLE*, I don't think you'll last in the goth thing. I mean, it would require your lifting those downcast eyes every one in a while to apply the mascara--and I didn't see that happen in three entire days of DragonCon %-). But frankly (and harshly), I think the whole goth scene is another f**king white folks' cop-out. You like the 'darkness' of it? Fine. Then join your local Satanist cult; cut off bits of you tongue to chew 'em up with dinner. Cook pasta sauce out of unseasoned menstrual blood and ground fly beef. Or hey, here's a thought: instead of pity and/or worship ME, you get involved in something that focuses on helping OTHERS--that's how you feel fulfilled. :moralizing off. Though I suppose anyone can easily lose direction. Last week, I accidentally heard Barbra Streisand's new album, Higher Ground, and I actually LIKED the thing. I'm listening to it every day. Help! My wife's starting to get worried, especially since we saw that movie In and Out recently. But I don't think she need be concerned--though I have to admit that shiny-craniumed Barney guy sure looks cute. What a hunk. What's his last name? Dangelly? And by the way *RICK*, I'm quite pissed at you. When I gave you that picture of me, I never thought you stick BARNEY'S head on it. -- Billy D.

Barney, are you trying to *deliberately* piss me off? Really tho, Goth isn't what it looks like. For one thing, the guys wear more makeup than most of the girls. I just indulge in a little white powder and Cleopatra eyes. There are two main types of Goths- Pity Me and Worship Me- I'm in the latter. And yes, we do smile occasionally, and not just at the sight of bloodWe aren't all depressed and mopey, and neither is all the music. I actually have a Crux Shadows cd that has some pretty bouncy songs. But I enjoy the lifestyle because it has that dark attraction, most of the Goths are the sweetest most harmless people you'll ever meet, and above all that, I look bangin' in black. :)

*DOC*: I want to offer my condolences for the loss of your great aunt; I know how these things can really add up. I, too, sometimes put the memories of my late loved ones with dishes they made that I'll never again have. It's the little things that get to you. That book DOES help, doesn't it? Be strong, Doc; be the kind of person Iva would want you to be; it's the best way to remember her. *ALL* The Goth thing. I'm particularly ick about it for a number of reasons. First, I've always preferred women who don't really wear all that much makeup; to swathe oneself in black greasepaint is just too disgusting to think on. Even mnore galling is that I could probably fit in to the Goth crowd; I'm sallow-complected, I've an earring, and I've the heroin chic look about me. Still, I like smiling; I like listening to music NOT specifically calculated to depress or express depression (except for maybe some Leonard Cohen, Tori Amos, Otis Redding ...), and, should I become preoccupied with the prospect of my own mortality, I do it far better than people who get depressed to have fun--I scare the amateurs sometimes. Having said all that, I want to tell you, Nicoile, if you enjoy this, do it. It's your life, and you shoul do what you want, however it may dismay us all. Heck, maybe, after seeing one too many bands who set up their candelabrae before setting up their instruments, you will get it out of your system. I have to wonder, though: Wghat is it about the (shoot me, I'm about to say a horrible thing) *lifestyle* that attracts you? I am honestly curious, kiddo.

Peter--goth darnit--pretty clever Barney, You'll always be my favorite FAG! Maybe we could get a VW van and start a whole campain, we'll recruit a bunch of foggies from here to BASTEN! We could spray paint on the side of the van "FAGfignugen" and blast some mean Buddy Rich. That would be cool, I feel like a good dose of assimilation right about now. I think I need to go and scrape my forehead against graveled pavement now. Buh-bye. Kristen

organized brooding? I like that. There is something rather "now" about that. I personally have nothing against Goth in and of itself. I do however have a problem with some of the more Hard-core examples of gothiness who stand together and proclaim "I am a non-comformist like the rest of my brethren here." Then they go back into their parents' basements and do each other's hair ala Robert Smith of the Cure. goth darnit. "The power of hairspray compels you. The Power of Hairspray compels you." hmm, maybe I'm just being an aerosol. ---Peter

ALEX> I wasn't gonna, but now I am. Just had a peep at your review of ANGRY CANDY. No time, at present, to give it the all-out attention it deserves, but I did check it out. Numero Uno: Pink's hot dogs *are* that good; also, HE's right, "Yuuuccchhh, the chili!" It's a mandatory stop for anyone visiting El Lay. Numero Two-o: Yes, it's that kind of book, just as Pooh is that sort of bear. It is, perhaps, my favorite of Harlan's collections, and the opening essay always tears me a new one. *Always.* More so on my recent re-reading, though. I got to dig it out especially -- last Saturday morning, my great aunt passed away. I have spent this entire week fending off sudden attacks of the snivvels, whenever my brain decides to remind me that I will never ever taste another peach cobbler that good, etc. The funeral was 1500 miles away, I couldn't go. Just as well -- I would have made a terrible scene and embarrassed a lot of people. Nevermind that Aunt Iva was emminently worth making an ass of oneself in public, I would have cause more grief than I would have assuaged. No more cobbler. "No more good grilled cheese,..." I even called to thank Harlan again for the Angry Candy -- the oddest yet most effective "comfort food" I know, for these situations. Nice review, what I saw. Ya done good. kiddo. Cheers, Doc

Personally, I have no problems with Goth (except for being too old and fat to look good in the rig myself). Organized brooding-and-skulking is certainly a healthier outlet than being a Business/Economics/PoliSci Major. BARNEY> Thanks for the Have-A-Happy, but I haven't much of a toy collection; speaking of which, weren't you going to send me something? I don't like to nag, but,... wait a minute, I do so like to nag. And as for your suggestion about F.A.G., I think that's already been taken (see your next rerun of "Maude," and the birth of the "Fathers Against Gays" movement). Speaking of which, anyone out there have any thoughts on the recent schtuss about Matthew Shepard? Or any thoughts of anykind?

No man, if they are playing the music [whatever kind] THAT loud you definitely want them drinking while driving. Evolutionary culling as Stephen Jay Gould might say. On the other hand music that loud might be a form of self-sterilization. I think the people on this list who hate Goth [not me] should form a group with a nifty acronymn. Let's see, howzabout F.A.G. Foggies Against Goth. Yeah, that has a nice ring to it. Although I agree with Bart Simpson that depressing teenagers is like shooting fish in a barrel. Wishing there was an emoticon for shit eating grin.

You don't really need to worry about someone who's gone Goth until they have their teeth filed or change their name to "Anne Gwish" . . .

Wait till I send you all pictures of me in my Goth club wear! ;)

Nicole: don't listen to the other old fogies -- if goth and role playing trip your flip for the time being, I say have at it (you seem like an intelligent girl, smart enough to not take it so seriously). As long as you promise not to drive around in public playing LOUD (I MEAN SO FUCKING LOUD it rattles the windows on my house) Music when you drive through residential areas (and never imbibe when behind the wheel), you're just fine. -- DTS (old fogey number 39), out here.

Best thing for her. It all fits! Personally, I think you all would look better [yeah, I'm lookin' at you Dennis!], if you dressed like extras in a NIN/Godhead/Tool video. I have to go shave my head again and oil my black duster. :-( :-( :-( ;- )

I'll, ah, second that, Rick. Nicole, can't you just read Vertigo comics and listen to bad music and have done with it? ************ To think I've lived through Nixon, disco, big hair rock, white rappers other than the Beastie Boys, the New Kids/Spice Girls, and now this Goth stuff ... the gods of fashion and music must be REALLY stioned--either that, or they're some hateful buggers ...

Let me be the first to say: NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOooooooooooooOOOOOOoooo!!!!!!!!!!

Wow! I go out and do stuff for a while and look at all I miss! Yeah, I skimmed through the posts, and really don't have much to add on emotional honesty. Believe it or not, the pest has gone Gothic. Yes, I have joined the black velvet, fishnet-and- eyeliner-wearing, vampire-roleplaying group of them, and I've started going to clubs (waiting for the loud gasp of shock from anyone who met me at DragonCon...). The leader of the Goth group at school really thinks I'm something, so that's awesome. But I babble. Really tho, nice to read from some of you guys again, esp Peg, Barney, and of course, my own pest, Doc. ::Mutters something about an early class and wanders aimlessly off to bed::

Well. I went.(Denver) I saw.(Harlan Ellison) I met. (HE) I got The Answer to The Question. (Yes.) Whatta ride that was. Stay tuned, kiddos. I might have piece on Harlan Ellison and me yet for Webderland.

Oh man. They'll just let any old homey or homette in here. There goes the cyberfreakin' neighborhood! How are things in hair teasingland? ;- ]

Barney, > The Kristen of Smitten

HE's reading of Bova's City of Darkness is out on Dove Audio. Only a pleasant $18 for the two tapes of the unabridged story.

So, being an Ellison marketing zombie or "tool" as someone in another group would have it, I, of course, ran right out and bought the "City on the Edge of Forever" editions of the Kirk and Spock figures to go with my series 3 Edith Keeler figure. I LIKE a toy that comes with a weapon and a coffee pot and mug. Phasers and Caffeine! Hah! Now, because I am a NO FUN sort of guy, as others on this list may attest, mine will stay in there little plastic and cardstock containers. However, I was giving some thought to what kind of toy diorama I would construct with materials at hand. Here is what I have decided. Using theToddToys "Frankenstein" I won in a card game from somebody who can't bluff for beans I will transplant Joan Collins brain into the body James Kirk. Kirks brain goes to "the Monster" where it will be better suited to planet side bouts of alien monster fighting. Spock takes the place of Dr. Frankenstein [there really should be a big-eyed McCoy to round out this set] getting even for the "Spock's Brain" third season debacle. I think Joan Collins trapped in the body of a spastic Canadian is somehow fitting punishment for making me stand in a Barnes and Noble and look for "City" references in her stupid-ass book. Now that I think about it the radio tube future monitor device in the Spock kit could be some sort of Vulcan strap on device but let's not go there... "Want to Play?", indeed. *PAUL* Nice review! Thanks for the heads up on Readercon. Delaney - Morrow - Bisson - AND Harlan. Yowza. If y'all haven't read Bisson your in for a treat and Morrow was good right out of the box. *Adam* thanks for the EW heads up. *DOC* *Alex* *Sue* * Nicole * *ADAM* and the rest of the Ellison mafia [not to mention the minions inhabitating all the local chapters of the Harlan Globetrotters.Have a great Halloween and play nice with your toys! Hey Keegan! Hey Renee! You still out there? Barney - the bald high fivin' white guy.

For those on the East Coast (or happen to have plenty of frequent flyer miles saved up) who may be interested, our favorite Unca Harlan will be the guest of honor at Readercon, next July 11 in Boston. If you'd like details, they're available at http://www.mit.edu/~zeno/readercon.html; I know our humble Webmaster at Ellison Webderland will also attend, along with that damn Hunter Thompson wannabe whose name escapes me but whose work keeps appearing in the damnedest places. For the most part, Readercons are about as far away from the typical science fiction convention as you can get, and this one promises to be even more entertaining. Cordially, Paul T. Riddell http://www.cyberramp.net/~priddell

Ellison appears twice in Entertainment Weekly's list of the 100 best sci-fi things. (I'm sure he's enjoying the title too.) Dangerous Visions clocks in at 50-something while A Boy and His Dog takes 90-something

I'm not dead yet. Just for the mob of you who give what is lovingly referred to as "a hoot." I feel happy... I want to go for a walk... Haven't had time to catch up on the local doin's, and have had a deuce of a time getting on-line access. By I'm tryin', honest injun. And ALEX -- it is at times like these that writers like you and I must throw caution and other things to the wind. If your research isn't working out satisfactorily, I'm afraid you'll have to do what you've been doing for most of those 90,000 words: make sumthin up. I find that when I curse the lack of proper research materials, I'm usually using it as an excuse to avoid being creative. Not that you're doing that, but I'm talking about me, here. Lots o' luck, and see you all soon. Smackers, Doc

Thanks to all for the research ideas--though I've plumbed a lot of them, a lot are new to me ... I've seen Serpent and the Rainbow, and, interestingly, was eyeing the book in the used book store, but it seems that more of it deals with the chemical aspect of zombi rather than the religion ... Again, thanks!

HE Updates: (1) The 2nd part interview of HE in the B5 magazine is on the newsstands w/ the Lyta Alexander character on the cover. (2) HE provides a testimonial on the back cover to the new Paul DiFlippo book, "The Lost Pages", and highly recommends one of the stories- I think it was called "Anne". (3) Not strictly an HE update, but there is a new collection of Neil Gaiman's short stories and a new translation of Jorge Luis Borges' works in a pretty hefty priced volume. Charlie

ALEX -- Saw your plea, and I don't know if this will help or not. Wade Davis' whole scientific take on voodoo - The Serpent And The Rainbow (I know, I know - forget Wes Craven; how he got his film from this book boggles the mind) - has some basic information; what might be of interest is the author's annotated bibliography, which calls out some potentially useful texts. I hedge that because it's so hard to determine content based on title/author/publisher/year, and I don't know what you may have found in the interim...if you can't lay your hands on a copy and are interested, just say the word and I'll e-mail you some citations. Finder

Steve, I think that when Harlan spoke of emotional dishonesty, he just meant that you have to deal with the situation that you are writing about without glossing over it. The story that he said was emotionally dishonest involved a situation that was similar to the writer's actual life, and that writer had glazed the situation in a way that dealt with the truth of it unrealistically as far as what really happened. Basically, if you're going to write about situations from your own life, or people you've dealt with, you can't slant the truth of how it affected you or others. When it hurts, you've got to let the reader know. Don't spare the big guns because you want to seem the hero, or because it might be embarrasing to discuss a situation that you've dealt with. Sometimes when you've had your head stuck in the toilet, you've got to let the reader know what the shit tasted like :) Hope this helps. --Steve

Did anyone else see HE last night on the SF Channel? He was interviewed for the Trek episode, "City on the Edge of Forever", which the SFC is replaying. He brought up the TV Guide top 100 shows, that the script was a love story, that the broadcast show was 1/100 of his original script, and despite the re-writes, his intelligent writing couldn't be diminished. Charlie

Thanks for the comments, Peter. Yeah, that helps. Of course, I'm still looking for comments from others, so if you have anything, I'd appreciate it. Also, I apologize for the double-post -- my server told me my first attempt hadn't gone through, but it had. I appreciate the absence of flames for this faux pas.

Sorry, I didn't see this other post until I'd already posted mine. I can give you a lot of examples of emotional dishonesty. Heck, Narnes and Boboli's book shelves are filled with emotional dishonesty. As for honesty? Check out Richard Matheson. Especially 'I Am Legend.' I've never read "what dreams may come" but my MTV soaked brain actually enjoyed the movie. Stephen King (I can see the serrated knives pointing my way) has a lot of honesty, especially when it comes to what he fears (which is really all I want when reading his work. anything else with him is a bonus) avoid media tie-ins and anything by Piers Anthony. Neil Gaiman is good. as is Terry Pratchett. No Cussler, no Clancy, definitely no Grisham. And then of course there is the ultimate in emotional dishonesty. Anything that is ghost written ala william shatner is as emotionally dishonest as you can get. hope this helps. ---Peter

Well, it's refreshing to hear that someone is actually doing research for a book. Too many times I've read stories that read like their main reference was Joseph Conrad instead of Joseph Campbell. Now if only I could get further than nineteen thousand words in my own novel before deciding to start over again. That would be nice. Of course, it would also be nice to sell one of my short stories to F&SF. Well, I can always dream. ---Peter

*de-lurk* Wow, all you writers & reviewers can give an inferiority complex to those of us who just like to read... ___________________________________ So, I really enjoed the Dragon Con pics; now I know what some of you look like! (really enjoyed the re-touched Barney photo *giggle*). I'll just have to say 'one of these days' I'll make it to somewhere in the vicinity of Unca Harlan. You know, it's getting pretty chilly these days. Anyone up for trying to schedule a special LA webder-get-together in a month or 2?? ___________________________________ Rick, you've been doing a fantastic job on the site! My husband has been letting his homepage lament for a year or 2 now. He quit his job *yippee* and started free-lancing hoping he'd have some more time. Now he's busier than he was with his job!! Well, the point was that it's great that you've been able to make the time for the site. ___________________________________ Well, that's all from the frozen north. C-ya Peg *re-lurk*

Alex--have you checked out Orisha Net? http://www.seanet.com/users/efunmoyiwa/ochanet.html

This is for the writers: I read the narrative about HE's week at Odyssey. Never have I wanted more to have a spare couple grand laying around waiting for a use. One thing that grabbed my attention was the emphasis on "emotional honesty" as an absolute requirement for good fiction. This was a delayed-action bomb for me; I realized, later on, that I'd never really given much thought to what constitutes emotional honesty. This question -- and the fact that I can't answer it -- has grabbed my auctorial confidence by the ears and shaken it hard. Suddenly I'm not sure if I'm emotionally honest in my fiction. Is it something I've been doing, without realizing it? Or (more likely) have I been dishonest all along? I know you can't answer those questions without seeing my writing, and frankly, at this point I wouldn't subject Saddam Hussein to my writing. But I'd appreciate any thoughts you might have on the subject of emotional honesty. What is it? What are some examples of emotionally honest fiction, other than HE's? What are some examples of emotionally dishonest fiction? I need answers, folks. I am honestly begging for help. And Rick, thanks for the answer you gave me already; it helps. But as you can see, I still have questions.

Alex - About your search for info on African deities - I wouldn't have thought that the web would be a really good place to look for such info, except perhaps for the Library of Congress. Have you gone through all of the Joseph Campbell books? How about the anthropology section of your local institution of higher education? How about children's books? It has become quite the thing of late to use African stories for children's books. I used to quite adore fairy tales and mythology as a child (actually, I still do) and was always fond of a series of books called "Tales from/about. . ." Too bad you're not after New Guinea info. The books of Margaret Mead are always a treat. I hope that I am not offering things that you have already thought of. Good luck! Maggie B

** ALEX** Well.... I don't how much help this will be but some obvious sources [to me] would be Fraser's "Golden Bough" [the multi-volume set] and the works of Sir Richard Francis Burton. Beyond that there are the SF African novels of Mike Resnick, the African travel writing of Theodore Roosevelt. Let's see - Isaac Dinesan might have made a few references in her stories. T.C. Boyle did a novel, "Water Music" which covered, among other things, Mungo Parks search for the headwaters of the Nile in N. Africa and covered some ground regarding African belief systems and the wonderfully exotic fatal diseases one can contract and die from on the Dark Continent. In medical non-fiction there is "The Coming Plague' which spends alot of time in Africa. Until recently [the late 1980's] Elizabeth Marshall Thomas's book "The Harmless People" was still in print and I remember that covered after-life beliefs and theological underpinnings of the Kung and Gikwe tribes. And if none of this helps you will have still read Roosevelt,Dinesan,Burton, Fraser, and Thomas and thus will be a better man. If this pans out you owe me a quarter [or a 1st edition of "Through the Brazillian Wilderness", whichever comes first. Lovepeaceout. Barney the boy blunder.

Here's one for the would-be writers (like me): I recently read the description of HE's week at Odyssey, and the thing about it that jumped out and grabbed my confidence by the throat and shook hard was the repeated observation that "emotional honesty" is an absolute requirement of good fiction. I didn't think too much about it at the time... but like all good booby-traps, this one had a delayed action... I realized that I had read a lot, and written a lot, without paying much attention to this concept of emotional honesty. And I realized that I didn't know if I hadn't thought about it because I'm automatically honest when I write, or if (more likely) I don't know what it is. Thinking about this is painful. I'm not sure why. I'm not sure if it should be. Does this mean I'm dishonest? More to the point: what does emotional honesty mean to *fiction*? What is the difference between an emotionally honest and an emotionally dishonest story? Any thoughts or comments would be appreciated. Especially if you can support them with examples (including HE's work, of course, but others too if you have any). Examples of honest fiction and dishonest fiction. FICTION, not essays. And thanks, Rick, for your answer, which was very welcome.

This is something of an appeal for help--albeit with a backstory. Tonight, while checking on the review of ANGRY CANDY I wrote for Rick, I found that I liked what I'd written. A lot. This, surprisingly, made me angry. Why, I wondered, could I write this so well (modest, eh?), yet be wholly unable to get cracking on my novel (my stories, my five or six *other* novels-half-begun-or-in-planning? I'm working on some of my stories, but my main novel, almost completed (up to about 90,000 words), is my real baby--and is killing me. I've been to the library, I've pored over countless 'Net searches, and still I cannot find the research I need to get this thing finished. Judging that Ellison readers are a more erudite bunch than most, I'm asking for help: If anyone can direct me to some good, in-depth information on African deities (not including Ngai) or the petro loa of voodoo/vodun, I'd be most grateful--and I'd be able to write some more!

Hey Rick!--If you think those pictures of Barney are neat, I should send you the ones with him in the thong and tu-tu. Shish! Talk about muscles! --K

Actually Rick, I'm not quite that tan. Thank you for helping me spew stuff all over my keyboard. Of course, why you happen to have those images so handy is probably an issue we don't wan't to address in a public forum. But seriously - touche. And before anybody else leaps to anybody else's defense - Now that I have issued my private apology regarding my ill thought out remark here is the public one. Mr. Jenkins - I'm sorry. Nobody, not anybody [I am tempted to use specific examples like telemarketers or proctologists but some of you probably are telemarketers for proctologists] I mean nobody, should have to go thru life looking as goofy as me. I mean that with all my heart and soul. And Amy is the sort of person to have at your back in a knife fight or at the hot gates. You are a lucky man. I have to go finish my shoe now. Good night.

Make you look better, Barney? You need but ask....there's a new picture up in the DragonCon directory now, enjoy!

So, how's that size 11 (just a guess) taste, Barney? she asks with a smile. I already sent you an email, but I sense regret vibes here, so no hard feelings -- from me, anyway. In response to your question, he's not as tall as you, but I imagine he's a whole lot meaner. These Texas boys, such hotheads . . . . Don't know what I'll do if he winds up in prison again. --Amy

Mr. Jenkins is, of course, going to kill me. Shit. Maybe those two Atlanta cops I posed with in the earlier photo will help me out should I ever be foolish enough to go to Atlanta again. How tall is Mr. Jenkins? - ulp.

Jeezus Jumpin' J. Edgar Hoover on a Crutch!!! The next time you steal somebodys' soul and devote a SECTION to it on Webderland you might give the poor bastard some warning. Talk about a shock to the system.. And my vanity would like to stress that the look-a-like is just that and NOT me. I would have sucked it in. And another thing - mini-rant here - if we can put a man on the Moon - if we can perfect the nerf football - if we can convince our culture that super-models are as important as Bosnia in the sense that they both get the same amount of coverage on CNN - then why, oh why, can't we have some sort of street level photographic technology that will allow me to pass for human in front of a camera? In 1984 George Orwell posited a society that altered the contents of photos to suit various personal and political agendas. We have Orwellian newspeak and a Orwellian sense of history - we have CGI effects that give us T-Rex dinosaurs and 3-D Matisse landscapes for actors to cavort in - why can't we have Kodak/Fujii film stock that drops unwanted pounds or adds inches. I say if we can split the atom and read the variations in genetic code then we can MAKE ME LOOK BETTER. I want a research grant! Screw the gym. I'm an American! I'm entitled! And by the way Wyatt - if that's me with your wife in that last shot then I am DEFINITELY trying to cop a feel. Hah!

I was glad to see the pictures from Dragon*Con, especially since I was a nimrod and didn't take a single photograph during my stay. The back of my head is visible in MANY of the Dragon*Con shots, but my husband got all the glory. He was quite surprised and pleased to find that he'd won the Barney Lookalike contest, and he said he'd like to thank all the voting members of Webderland who made this moment possible. I'm glad I got to speak (albeit briefly) to Rick during Dragon*Con, and I'm sorry I didn't swing by the message board sooner--it would've been nice to meet more of the faces behind the names on the little screen. Oh, and for those of you wondering who the hell I am, I wrote that "Life in Eden" story Rick was good enough to post up here a couple of years ago. I guess I'm just a lurker at heart . . . . Amy

Great to see you got the pictures up, Rick. Also good that you didn't get any of HE trying to get me to look up. "Stop doing that. Hey, Susan, make her stop doing that..." For anyone looking, I don't look that dorky all the time. Believe it or not, sometimes I look like an actual human being. :)

BARNEY!! *HUG* In fine form, I see.. :-) Sorry about Madison. Things did a dipsy-doodle for me, and I wound up going to LA - for FREE, as in all expenses paid (they knew my weak spot) - coming home for 4 days, and going to Daytona Beach. Long story behind all of that, so I won't bore you with it (or embarass myself)... ;-) ... By the time I got home, my own dogs didn't know me any more.. sighhh.. Anyone want to buy tickets to Mad Media?? got a couple to sell for dirt cheap.. sighhh.. so much for getting the "early bird" discount.. Sounds like you managed to have fun without me, though.. hee hee.. Things are pretty hectice here. Still digging out the old Homestead after my protracted absence. Unbelievable how raunchy two grown men will let a house get! Well, maybe slightly more believable than the excuses I come up.. Got Mind Fields (finally), and read it on the plane. I liked it. After all the commentary on short-short style, I was surprised to find that I rather liked the shorter ones better.. If they got too long, I wanted them to be regular short stories. Which would have made it an Ellison book illustrated by Yerka, rather than a Yerka book with commentary by Ellison as billed.. *shrug* whatever - I liked it. I'll be lurking, and bringing myself back up to speed. Try High - Fly Straight - Drive Safe

If you simply cannot wait for Edgeworks 5, BiblioBytes have put both of the GLASS TEAT books online at their site: www.bb.com - free to read, though copyright about downloading, anent Ellison's copright online, is debatable

Adam- Seeing that September has come and gone I can safely say that Amazon is dreaming. I remember seeing one book site state E5 was coming out in November. Barnes on line says E5 is "in stock & ships in 1 to 2 weeks", which I doubt serisously. I do note that E6 has an ISBN and the sites are also saying November, which I also doubt, since HE and N. Gaiman haven't completed their new collaboration for inclusion in the Partners of Wonder volume. The White Wolf site offers no help and just posts the message from Dragon Con about the Vatican suing. Hell, I'm content reading some of the stories from Dangerous Visions and looking forward to Vol. 5 of the Ted Sturgeon series, which is due in October, along with the Avram Davidson Treasury. I just finished reading The Alien Years, by Robert Silverberg. It was okay. I would have enjoyed a bit more drama with maybe one of the Carmichaels turning out to be a quisling. (read the book and you'll know what I mean). Charlie

Is Edgeworks 5 still scheduled for September? Or is that not likely? The only reason I ask is because Amazon.com (which, I admit, tends to be blatantly incorrect) still suggests September as the release date. THANKS

Finder is WAY TOO modest. He and his friend are the duo who took the Ellison smartass remark "where do I get my ideas? - I send away to a place in Jersey and they send me back a six-pack of ideas every month!" and actually constructed [I mean hand PAINTED or whatever] the 6 pack of cans containing the ideas! I've seen the thing and it is SWEET! What were the ideas again? Funny as hell. For JMS they constructed a brass Rube Goldberg device in a finished wooden box that makes "spare time" or "extra time". It was freakin' beeyooteefull! These two guys do amazing work. Is there a picture of the 6 pack? I bet Rick would post it if there is. Also, if you want to send me your name [and your friends name] you too could be at least a footnote. *** I-CON AAaaarrrgggghhhhhh!!!!! [this scream should be read as extremely loud and heart wrenching and not a cute Charlie Brown scream] I like the people who do I-Con and I have met some wonderful people there but I'm already missing the Ramada with no AC. One day is OK but 3 days is the Bhatan Death March. Most panels etc. are in "the bunker" a giant stone Dante-esgue piece of architecture that will disorient newcomers for hours. The Dealers room is about 84 miles away on the other side of the campus. I say this as somebody who has schlepped Harlan's books from one end of the campus to the other twice in one day. A nice enough con but bring sensible shoes and snack food if the prospect of three days of hot dogs and soda doesn't excite you. Also, while there are plenty of satellite hotels, the nearest is 20 minutes away from the bunker. S'truth. I'm not saying don't go or slamming the co. It is a major Ellison venue. Just be prepared. Lovepeaceout.

He lives! Well, okay, but he has no life...a dark, nasty Hollywierd agent type bounced my big break back at me; though he said I was a good writer (hey, it's more than I got from some of my college professors...), so I seek solace - where else? - among the literate and interesting. That'll teach me to put prospective future summer blockbusters ahead of my prior commitments...ALL - get out your red pens and circle April 9-11 in your day planner, because unless those wacky people at Stony Brook have terribly jumped the gun at their website (http://www.iconsf.org/), HE is being touted as a guest at I-CON 18. Okay, maybe seven months is a lttle early to get all worked up, but I know I can do I-CON, as I've done it before (being well connected on Long Island has its benefits)...and after my last one (when HE actually dragged myself and a compatriot up on stage in the middle of a panel he was late for so we could give something to Joe Straczynski - HE's idea, we'd have settled for a quick "Hi, how are you?" after the panel) I'm thinking I'd have to be nuts to go anywhere near the SUNY campus...then again, they always said I was nuts...at last, something to fill the void left by my scrubbing of a next-summertime trip to Munich...anyway, just de-lurking to drop that tid-bit. Hope y'all are well. Barney, I envy you both of your convention trips. I guess I just need a SF getaway to shake up the telecomm billing duldrums...Finder

smaller s-m-a-l-l-e-r-. OK, that's better. next topic / Oh, I had fun allright. I ALWAYS have fun. I just wasn't able to have world class, where am I, what did you say your name was, which state is this, the damages total how much, ok, funs fun but could you remove these cuffs now, what's this on my pants, she said she was how old, I didn't think they'd both fit into the trunk until I remembered they were dead and I could bend them any way I wanted to because after all they're only fucking Klingons so who gives a rats ass kind of fun. You know - FUN. Why are you all looking at me that way? People. feh.

i was all so at the mad media con. in madison. had a much better time than barney, but then i did have a car and could escape when needed. harlan was great, but seems to me he usually is. he even corrected a typo on the edgeworks #1 for me during a signing. on the dedication page he marked out 1959 and corrected it with 1949. took some pictures of harlan and neil, but have not developed them yet, keep your fingers crossed that they turned out. late for class gotta go...

Well folks,I'm back from the land of dairy products and must say I had a very different sort of con than Atlanta. Accomodations were much worse [a 2 floor Ramada in the middle of nowhere ie. $20.00 cab ride into town] and a restaurant that closed at 9PM and a bar that closed at midnight. HARD to have fun but I tried. On the other hand, Harlan is still the James Brown of conventions and they beat him like a red-headed stepchild. I counted 17 hours of scheduled activity in 2 and a half days. A much heavier schedule than Dragon*Con. If anybody thinks he plays gentler with a smallrer room, well, your mistaken. Prince Myshken was the only story read but many tales were told. The banquet was pricey [$40 for charity] but well worth it. Harlan did a long rant on Christian coalitions and the far right. In the collectors corner, you should know that in the 3 day program they bound in a chapbook called "Ellison Unfrocked" which collects all the fake bios Harlan has done over the years including the 1st app. of the one which will be on Edgeworks 5. There is a one page intro. and pictures by Susan of Harlan. Mad Media and the HERC will be offering unbound copies for sale at a later date. Harlan and Neil started the new "Partners in Wonder" story. It was still under construction Sunday morning when I left but looks to be strange fun. By the way, if you ever get a chance to see Neil Gaiman at a con, by all means do so. A very nice, warm, engaging fellow. He also does wonderful readings of his own stuff. It amazes me how rare this talent actually is. Thats the quick overview - perhaps there will be more. SUE - where the f*%k were you. I can't be expected to take on ALL the visigoths. If you had been there I could've at least gotten into town. Oh well, lfe is full of disappointments - at least I got a 1st class ticket upgrade for the flight home. Makes up for the last con. :-] Barney

Charlie - I heard Disney is planning an animated feature based on 'Bleeding Stones'. In their version, a trio of gruff-but-lovable pigeons leads the resistance against the mean ole gargoyles, and win. Featuring songs by Elton John. Maybe when your girlfriend watches it, her opinion of HE will mellow...

As an inveterate reader of MAD magazine, I was startled, delighted, and a little put out to see that this month's issue, in "Leo's Talk Show Adventure," refers to someone as being "as slow as a Harlan Ellison introduction." I kid you not.

FYI- There's an article on HE in Nov. issue of (that word that shall never pass his lips) Entertainment magazine. It's about his appearance at DV bookstore with Chris Carter. Also, the paperback of Angry Candy is out. OTTO- I sympathize. The WORST mistake I made was reading the gargoyle story from Deathbird Stories to my girlfriend. Now, I can't even mention his name in front of her. Charlie

I'm sure HE will be proud- I know I would be. ::fondly remembers the time her work was called "sick" and "disturbing".::

Last week, I forced someone to read HE. Just a little, kinda ease her into it. Well, she got all the way through "Knox" before she stopped. She showed up at my door brandishing the book and said, "It's disgusting. I'm never going to read anything by this man again." I was a little taken aback, so I asked what she found disgusting. This is the part that disturbs me. What she found repulsive was not the thought that people could, nay, HAVE done such things to each other in the name of purity and loyalty, but that such graphic descriptions of death were used. Not a word about the twisted morality, the brilliant prose style, the frightening possibility. HE has now been categorized, ladies and gentlemen. He is disgusting. Just thought you'd like to know.

Good one, Nicole. For some reason, I've been hearing inanities everywhere lately (or maybe I've just started noticing). 1) At a Barnes and Chernobyl bookstore last week I overheard the following conversation -- Patron: "Do you have a copy of the Starr report?" Clerk: "Did you say 'The Starr report' or do you want a book called 'The Starry Port?'"; 2) When I asked for a Coca-Cola in a restaurant the other day, the waitress dutifully explained to me, "We don't serve Coke. Our menu is completely vegetarian and seafood"; 3) On the radio tonight, a religious bookstore was advertising a Bible giveaway as, "the complete word of God, abridged"; 4) On NPR this week, the 'technical reporter' said he recently installed a 56K modem on his computer, so now he can "access the Internet at a speed of over 50,000 kilobits per second" ... (think about it). -- Billy D.

LOL Bill! Okay, so not knowing Ralph Nadar doesn't seem that bad now! And consider this: I asked a friend of mine what he thought of the Ken Starr report, and he said "What? Who?" I was tempted to ask him if *he* knew Nadar, but I thought...naw. Besides, if he did by some miracle of fate know, I'd feel extememly stupid. Barney's not confused. He's just odd. :) I'd play along with you guys, but I'd rather sit back and watch. And yes, Salt Lake is capitalized...proper nouns and all.. ;) BTW Rick, the review might be a little late. I'm really busy with the newspaper and writing reports and all these days. Second week of Oct, latest.

Whoops, that should have read "business GUY schedules a meeting"...Sorry -- Billy D. ----> P.S. And should salt Lake be capitalized or not?

Hey, *NICOLE*, here's something that might make you not feel so bad about that whole Ralph Nader incident run-in thing you had with HE recently. Last week at an upscale restaurant here in Salt Lake City (yeah, I know, never use the words "upscale" and "salt Lake" in the same sentence)--anyway, this business schedule a meeting at the restaurant, arrives, doesn't see the people he's looking for, and asks the hostess, "Excuse me, do you know where the Merrill Lynch party is sitting?" To which she replies, "I'm sorry, Sir, I don't know Mr. Lynch." Oh, and *BARNEY*, I didn't know it was a game; I thought you were actually confused (remember, I met you at DragonCon, so you can understand why I had that impression). Anywhoo, I think RICK is wrong too. BEN Ellison is the Oracle guy. HARLAN Ellison is the famous nude photographer--though I've never been sure whether that means he photographs nudes, or just photographs people while he's in the nude. You probably got mixed up (again) at DragonCon when that other Ellison guy mentioned all the women he's been with. -- Billy D.

No, no, no, Barney - you're thinking of Pervis "Never Nervous" Ellison. Harlan is, of course, the high-powered CEO that has lead Oracle to such a dominating position in the database market. Sheesh.

Oooops...that's Ralph Ellison - well you gotta admit he dominates the middle and has one of the best slam dunks in the NBA [continuing to play this game all by himself...]

I'm sorry - That was Jimmy Ellison. Well, still, after writing only one novel and a handful of essays and what with being black AND dead you have to admit he's still amazingly popular....

Mr. G. is rearing its ugly head towards central FLA. I'm worried about my HE collection. Oh hell, guess I'll go play tennis and not worry. Charlie

I think that, unlike Gabby Hayes, and Hopalong Cassidy, Mr. Ellison was very underrated both as an actor and as a singing cowboy. Did he write books too? Gee, what a swell guy.

Yiyiyiyiyiyiyiyiyiyiyiyiyiyi! I hear the drums in the jungle, something moving in the brush...and a Bengal springs for the throat, with a keyboard honed to a razor's edge. My response to JG's post would've been "One word: 'Xenogenesis'", but I'm glad to see some smoothly-executed kendo. And thanks to JG for stirrin' it up. Mitch

Y'know, I wondered the same thing about his comments being sarcastic, but I didn't want to take that chance. A gauntlet had been thrown down and...well, I couldn't resist. Besides, what if some other pinheads came along and took his viewpoint seriously? Not just a short, shy teenager, am I? :) Nicole The Fierce Warrior comin' at ya! Going around with my eyes up these days, yep yep yep. ;) Oh, and sir, if you have anything more to say, go on and put it up here. I want a full explanation.

Damn, Nicole--go on, Girl! Very well written. Well written, indeed. Now if you could just lift your eyes and stare us down in public like you do on the page...Y-ouch, I'm cowering just thinking about it. -- Billy D.

I also took Joseph's comments as tongue in cheek. But, I also see Nicole's POV that maybe the comments weren't. So, what up, Joseph? Anyway, loved the apologia, Nicole.

Maybe it's just me, Nichole, but I think Joseph was being...er, um...sarcastic. That's the trouble with these post-it-note thingees: no voice or italics for inflection. So miscommunication is rampant. Ironic, no? ---- DTS.

Sir, I will gladly post in response to you. First off, *everyone* has the right to privacy, dignity, and being treated like a human being, no matter who they are and what they do. No exceptions. No matter who you are. Yes, Harlan is in the public eye, and he worked his ass off to get there, but that does not make him automatically deserving of whatever nastiness that those immature people happen to send his way. If anything, this should make him even more entitled to those human privilages. Secondly, he made *himself* who he is. He was writing before many of us were born, long before I was born. He was the one banging out his stories on that typewriter, those were his ideas going down on paper, that was his blood and sweat going into everything he wrote, and I expect (from a writer's perspective here) that he would go on writing even if it didn't make him famous, because that's who he is. He worked, he wrote, he acted, and therefore he deserves the credit for his accomplishments. He slaved over a typewriter, pouring out a piece of himself on those pages, worked to get it published, while all the fans do is shell out a bit of cash at the bookstore. Hmm. Is it just me, or does the workload seem a little...unbalanced? If the fans make the writer, why does he even put his name on the books? In fact, why even write something if there's a chance the fans won't appreciate it? Because he does this for himself, that's why. As fans, we aren't entitled to a damn thing besides what he's given us in his work, and of course, the right to be treated with dignity and politeness, same as he deserves. Perhaps I should have sent this privately, but I wanted you and everyone else in Webderland who may have this mistaken notion that fans make the writer to openly see my position on this. Fame does not equal the loss of human rights. Fame is earned, not given out by fans like a prize at the county fair. The writer alone makes the writer.

Listen up chittlins. I have just re-read an essay of Harlan Ellison's called "You Don't Know Me, and I Don't Know You." Boy, I'm ticked. I'm going to rant a little. Mr. Ellison doesn't like us! Well, guess what, bub? I don't think I like him too much either! It's a damn shame that a writer of such skill should submit such a venemous polemic as he did this time( this time being, I believe, November 1978? sorry, but I type slowly, so you just see this now.) There is a thing with writers that makes them think that they are humans. They honestly think that they have a right to: Freedom, self-respect, privacy, and some other things. Uh...oh, yeah, dignity. Are they nuts? Harlan Ellison opened the door by writing such brilliant works. Can he be surprised that he is either worshiped ar reviled by the readers(or non-readers: they tend to be more objective than us literaty types)? The man should juat send us all free books. After all we made him a success. He owes us, Big Time. Anyway, send me an E-Mail and tell me what you think.

Another FYI: this was posted on the LOCUS magazine website under "Appearances" by Harlan Ellison(looks like a reading engagement and a writer's workshop): Denver, Teikyo Loretto Heights University: Fri 16 Oct 1998, 7-9 p.m.: Harlan Ellison appears (An Evening with Harlan Ellison, tuition $34); Sat 17 Oct 1998, 10 a.m.-noon: Harlan Ellison appears (Master Class Writer's Workshop, tuition $89). Better sign up quickly, cause these things sell out quick! -- DTS

FYI: Ellison received the 1998 Defender of Liberty Award from the Comic Book Legal Defense Fund. You can read (a little) about it online by going to www.bookwire.com/ljdigital/ and clicking on the highlighted title, "Give'em Hell Harlan Receives Defender of Liberty Award." Or you can pick up a copy of this month's (Oct., I think) Library Journal. -- DTS

Here is the url for the Sept 16 Onion interview of HE. http://avclub.theonion.com/index.html

Eeeeee!!!!! It IS! Ooooohhhh!! I am so happy! I even printed the thing out to show off! I'll have to call HE tonight or tomorrow to thank him. I was so sure that he was going to mention Ralph Nadar (I swear, when I'm senile and can't even remember my own name, I will *never* forget who Nadar is!) Sort of reminds me of this one song: "And I had a feeling I could be someone" Bill, I know, I know, and it bothers me that I haven't sent you anything, but I've been killer-busy, what with having a story on the front page of our newspaper, various projects, and a new, uh, male friend. I'll finish up that story I was going to send you tonight and have it over, along with that two dollars... :)

Oh, it's you Nicole. Definitely you. I knew it the minute HE said it was a "smart" 18-year-old. I think you definitely owe me that two dollars now--but I'll settle for those, ahem, writing samples you so diffidently promised. -- Billy D.

Oh, *reviewer*. ::blushing fiercely:: Okay, gonna check this out... ::heart Racing!!!::

18 year old interviewer? Perhaps it was one of those guys with him at lunch- it certainly couldn't be me! :)

Hey, just discovered this website! As a huge fan of HE, It goes on my "fave" list! Great work, Rick. Since moving here ten years ago, I've felt as though I fell into the shallow end of the gene pool... it's good to be reminded that there's a world out there that doesn't consist of people who - well, never mind. They can't help it. Anyways, I'll be checking in on a regular basis; perhaps I'll get word of a Convention in London or Toronto. Again, kudos to Rick!

The Onion, a satirical newspaper whose stories are posted on the Web, did an interview with Harlan this week. He mentions a certain 18-year-old reviewer he spoke with. Someone we know, perhaps? :-) The interview is at www.theonion.com, under the "A.V. Club" drop-down list. Mitch

oh yeah, and the gargoyle story from Deathbird is reprinted in the new book, In the Shadow of the Gargoyle, Kikpatrick and Roche editors. Gaiman and Clayton are other contributors. Charlie

FYI- For those who haven't noticed, Slippage is out in paperback. Be gentle with it, though, as the cover material is not very sturdy. The content duplicates the Zeising ltd. ed. Also, don't forget the HE interview in the Babylon 5 magazine with Richard Biggs on cover, the HE review of Man on Spikes in the Bloomsbury Review, and the HE interview in the satiric religious magazine with Charlton Heston as Moses on the cover with an AK-47 (I think that's the weapon, not knowing much about 'em). Whatever happened to the HE article that was suppose to appear in Collector Glass News about a year ago? Charlie

New rants? Excellent--I assume the guest rant is the one Paul was talking about? No matter; whosoever writes it, I'm sure it'll be enjoyable. Hey, who else submitted a review? I know the "doozy" ain't *mine* ... New stuff; new stuff. Makes us insomniacs happy.

DRAGONCON PICS AND COMMENTARY, as well as a new rant, a new guest rant, a new review, two HE interviews and an HE speech, will be up by this coming weekend. Sorry for the delay, I got hit hard by some kind of sinus bug this week and then had to work all weekend on a major software release implementation. Hell, I guess I'll go ahead and link in the review for ya, it's a real doozy....

I agree with everything you said about LDV, especially this. >>I would prefer to see Harlan devote his efforts to writing great fiction and non-fiction and continuing to entertain and enlighten us as he has done for so many years and through so many stories, essays, and books. I would consider it a greater loss to the world if Harlan were to deny us months of productive work so that this book of stories no one but a few loud and strident voices seem to care about anymore could come out. It would be nice if this matter were off Ellison's plate one way or another, once and for all, so he could go on vacation, look up at the clouds for a while and feel the unbearable lightness of being. The thought of the man being continually burdened by this for years and years is what bothers me, even if it is of his own plan and choosing and he can handle it.

Barney- Sorry to hear about your weekend. Hope all is going well now. You got the Prize for sure! Nicole- I remember you, didn't you actually make eye contact with Harlan at one time? Well guys, I've managed to turn my DragonCon trip into an article for a local rag called Metropulse. When they publish it, I'll let you know. Cheers, Dave

Hats off to Rick Wyatt for his fantastic and informative HE website. I was delighted to find this sight after using a search engine well over one year ago. Rick, I had the pleasure of meeting and speaking briefly with you at Dragon Con in Atlanta. Please drop me a line if you plan to come to New Orleans in the future.

Hey folks- Hello to Rick, Nicole, Dave, Kristen, Steve, fuck it - Hello to the entire Ellison mafia! I'm glad to see everybody got back all right. Well, I hate to sound like queen for a day [ask your parents] but I think I win. In a mere four days my good friend Tim Richmond was in a car accident with a rental car [goodbye 500 bucks] while attempting to make one of the panels, Ticketron and Constaff double dipped me for banquet tickets and now have amnesia, my wife was laid off from a job she has had since Reagan was in office, my daughter blew out a knee in a vollyball scrimmage and spent five hours in emergency while dad was having fun and some walking sack of puss walked off with my friends camcorder with the 2 hour tape of Harlan's main address still in it. Another 800 bucks. Oh, I love Science Fiction conventions. The weird thing is I had so much fun meeting the lot of you that it almost seems worth it. I think I'll go try and e-mail Dragon * Con about my $78.00 Then I'll go kick my dog. Rick - sorry you got hammered Sunday. Perservere - Barney

Oh yeah, David. I remember you. I was the one across from Rick that Harlan was yelling at to get her head up, but I bet you already knew that. :)

Well, I'm must say I'm truly jealous of you DragonCon attendees. I've not posted much 'cause I couldn't stand to think of all the fun I'd be missing. I'm even more jealous now 'case I listened to my couple of HE recordings in the last few weeks, so I'm starting to get an inkling of what I didn't get to see. Paladin of the Lost Hour - *wow* Ya gotta hear it to believe it. ========================= Really, though, looking forward to seeing some pics and synopsis on the site so I can live vicariously through your experiences. Maybe someday I'll make one of these *con* things.... Ta, Peg

Hey gang! Just to give you a face to put with the words, I was at the lunch with Harlen and Susan. I sat next to Rick and across from barney. I just wanted to say thanks for a truely wonderful time. I hope to talk to you guys later. David

Charlie, I think I'll let Rick give the details of the Con. Barney- I actually made eye contact with him, and *held* it! Too bad it was when you left. You had to see it to believe it! Just ask Susan!

DTS-Thanks for the reply. NICOLE- Yup, I'm jealous. How about some details of the event. Charlie.

YAHOO!!! Just got back from DragonCon and had the time of my life! For those of you who couldn't make it, my sympathies. Got to meet Harlan and Susan face-to-face (actually sat right next to her at lunch! Now I ask you, could anything be more awesome?), made some new friends, and got my EW3 signed. Rick, I'd like to get a copy of some of the pictures. Just e-mail me whenever on that. Just curious, did you get any of him at lunch? I don't remember if you did, my head being down and all. ;)

Charlie: re "Bloomsbury," I may be a bit early as I was reading from a subscription/complimentary copy. (However, even the bigger chain stores in my area stopped carrying it with any regularity). The address for "The Bloomsbury Review" is 1762 Emerson Street, Denver CO 80218-1012. (there isn't a price listed on the complimentary copies -- sorry). The phone number is 303-863-0406. Excepting holidays, you can almost always catch them in the office between Monday and Friday, 10a.m.-4 p.m., mountain time. ---- DTS.

DTS-Can't find the Bloomsbury Report at the newsstand. Can you post a phone number for the BR. Thanks, Charlie

DTS-Can't find the Bloomsbury Report at the newsstand. Can you post a phone number for the BR. Thanks, Charlie

YES! I've finally finished the review! Now I just need to get cracking on the novel ... do the research on the petra loa of voodoo, find the Vodun possession chant (in French) I need for an earlier chapter, figure out how to get all the players together without resorting to a deus ex machina, figure out where the final battle is to be fought (and how to get everyone there, again, without a deus ex machina) ... and ... and ... Oy. All this tsuris for just ten thousand dinky little words. Well, let's see; I'm awake at 10 a.m. with work starting at 4 and ending at 1 a.m. Maybe I'll just not sleep at all ... Ah, the life of an aspiring author!

Urgh. You who are going to DragonCon, know that my envy for you knows no bounds. Barring publication of my novel (STILL unfinished ... Grrr ...), the first con I'll be able to make it to will be Worldcon's Millennium Philcon in 2001--which will still be enjoyable, as I'll be able to meet Paul Riddell (he of Rick's little "Paul Riddelland" spoof of this website)--I don't know how great a host I'll be, but the idea of a Hunter S. Thompson/George Romero acolyte from Dallas and his friends tearing through this town is a fun thought ... Cazart! I just realized! At the time of that con, I'll be poised on the lip of my thirtieth year! Anyway, I'm finally employed (at the IRS, so Finder, I just want you to know that your e-mail headers have been decrypted and your SSN is on file. Say hi to the boys from Criminal Investigations for me.), but that news isn't the most important: I'm one review (and an afterword) away from finally finishing the ANGRY CANDY review, and I'm finishing that as soon as I post this, come Helms or high weather. Rick, I really have to thank you: Writing this propelled me out of a few of the blocks I've had finishing the novel, and will be my first "published" piece of nonfiction since I wrote an article for the college newspaper years ago on financial aid firms that came ou of some mini-Mike Wallace-style ambush interviews. I needed this.

FYI: the truncated book review by Ellison that appeared in the San Francisco paper has been reprinted(sans editing) by "The Bloomsbury Review" (spet/Oct '98 edition). The review/essay (on page 7)is titled, "Bought, Sold & Traded: Baseball & Indentured Servitude." (Ellison's byline reads, in part: "...He was in the cheap seats at Cleveland's Lakefront Stadium on the night when the legendary Leroy "Satchel" Paige first pitched in the Majors." ----DTS

SIGH - no DragonCon for me. The sting is lessened by my finding a copy of Amazing's Jan 81 issue, with the HE short story "Run, Spot, Run", but nothing really supplants beholding the man speaking, watching him individually deal with the people in the signing line, hearing him present one of his stories to an intently focused audience...I look forward to living vicariously through all of you...RICK: Finally got to read your rant en toto - right on the money, though you realize the people who have been badgering and brow-beating and stirring up trouble over TLDV not being a reality will, upon its publication, start bitching about how it doesn't live up to their expectations, is too expensive, isn't 'dangerous' enough, has big words - you can't make that kind of person happy. Personally, I'd rather see the publication of "Blood's A Rover" or one of HE's other finely crafted works. And speaking of finely crafted, my review IS still coming along. (Every time I come in through Webderland's front door, there's that quote from "Night of Black Glass" and I have guilt...)(but it's a good guilt...)(much better than the guilt the IRS tries to use on me.) ALL - Have a great time in Atlanta - wish I was there. And if someone could, please tell HE that Doug from the Idea company sends his regards. He may look at you strangely. He may anyway, regardless (you should have seen the look he gave that woman who wanted him to autograph her copy of the "Forbidden Planet" laserdisc at I-CON...) But I'd be much obliged... SUE - I haven't ruled out Mad Media yet myself. The "mad" part is my contemplating and 1600 mile round-trip highway junket in an 60-hour window - I like to road trip and all, but - brrrr. DOC - Got your e-mail through your alternative methods, thanks. It may not be you in this case - it may be AOHell (you're not the first who's had things not exactly get to me intact)...Well, have a safe and exciting holiday weekend, and drive friendly - I'll be out on those roads...Finder

Well, it isn't gonna fly. Couldn't get Hubby to pop for DragonCon... :-( ... But did get him to agree to Mad Media in Madison Sept 25... :-) ... Cya there Barney :-)

So lemme see - Barney, Rick, BillyD, and Nicole (who is the fifth one?) will all be gathered at 11:00 am outside the Centenial III-IV room in Atlanta on Friday.. Hhhmmm.. Atlanta is a 12 hr ride from here.. If I left Thursday.. and came home Saturday.. and can convince Hubby it is a *wonderful thing to send his wife off solo-adventuring.. Twice.. All I need is a spot on the floor for Thurs and Fri night... That sounds *do-able*.. Sort of.. My hang-up will be the Hubby - I'm already going solo to LA Sept 11-14 - flying, not riding smartyalecks), so this would make two weeks in a row.. Still... I have a place to stay in Stockton - how far is that from Atlanta?? {always scheming}...

HEY - so far I'm planning on 6 people being at DragonCon at 11:00 Friday outside the Centennial III-IV room. If you are planning on attending the Con and either can or cannot make the Friday meeting, please e-mail me...I may have something special planned for Webderland visitors but if I need to get a headcount first. So far I have Barney, Eric, Jessica, Nicole, and Bill... --- ALSO, if you enjoyed my picture, check out my dog's homepage at http://www.menagerie.net/homer.

Oh, now that we're showing people how we look, guess it's my turn. Unfortunately, I have no picture (every picture of me that has ever been taken makes me look horrid. Really. I'd beat Medusa in an ugliness contest.) So, here's what to look for. Thin 5'5 teenager, medium length brown hair, wearing sandals, two necklaces, and a shy smile. I'll probably be leaning against a wall by myself or somesuch. Not much to go on, but it's something.

Well, okay, since Rick started it, I've netted a picture of me-self at http://www.inconnect.com/~wjdennis. So those going to DragonCon--and whose eyes can stand the strain--can see whom to look for. And really, honestly, I truly sincerely apologize in advance to anyone who, upon beholding this visage, might become disabused of the belief that man could have been created in God's image. -- Billy D.

Obviously, Jlw hasn't met me, the 18 yr old bookworm, yet. :)

*** DRAGONCON NOTES **** - Harlan's signing sessions will be at 1pm Saturday and Sunday, and in addition to the schedule on the appearances page he will be doing a show with the Atlanta Radio Theater Company at 7pm Saturday. --- AGAIN, REMEMBER, we are meeting outside the Centennial III-IV room at 11:00am Friday to see Harlan's solo presentation. I will also be at the signings (there's pictures of me at http://www.menagerie.net/rwyatt/rwyatt.htm, the picture links are at the bottom of the page).

No one under the age of 30 reads these days, even the English majors. Depressing, isn't it?

oh, ya, all right, are you gonna be in my dreams tonight

Sounds good to me - 11:00am at the Centennial Room it is, just as Bill said. I'll get a picture for the web page and we'll make any other plans necessary for the weekend then! Barney - The Abbey is still here, it's about a ten minute drive from the convention site. The Cheetah is still there, too, although I (ahem) wouldn't know what goes on there.

Okay, here's the info. HE will be speaking at 11:30 AM Friday in the Centennial III-IV room. What say we all meet up there around 11:00 AM to make sure we get seats? -- Billy D.

Sounds good to me. I'll be getting in Thurs. afternoon sometime. I'm looking forward to meeting all of you face-to-face. Hell, I've been excited about DragonCon for weeks! I was also hoping one of you would be nice enough to introduce me to HE while I'm there.

Save - let's see - 5 seats at least. Nicole, Rick, myself, Eric, and Jessica. ETA for me is Thusday morning. Also want to check out Criminal Records. Hey Rick , is the Abbey still there? What about Pitty Pats Porch? And how are the girls at Cheetah 3? Don't lie - I know you know....... :-] Culture Vulture at large - Your Man in Atlanta - Denver - Madison - Boston etc......

Looks like the DragonCon schedule has been set, and HE will be speaking at 11:30 AM on Friday morning. Youse guys interested in meeting there and sitting together as a Webderblock? -- Billy D.

Doc, Thanks for the info on Unca Harlan's health. Good to hear his tank is still full of piss & vinegar.

Doc, Thanks for the info on Unca Harlan's health. Glad to hear he still has a full tank of piss and vinegar.

FYI: For all you lovers of great short fiction, in October, TOR Books will publish THE AVRAM DAVIDSON TREASURY (ed. by R. Siliverberg and Grania Davis). It collects many of Davidson's short stories from the 50's through the '90s. Tales like "Help! I Am Dr. Morris Goldpepper" (in which a Jewish dentist, held captive on an alien planet, sends messages back to potential rescuers via dental fixtures), "The Golem," "Or All the Sea With Oysters," "Dagon," and right on up through his final stories. Introductions (and afterwords) are provided by a slew of luminaries, from Ray Bradbury, Ursula K. LeGuin, Gene Wolfe, and Poul Anderson,to William Gibson, Martha Soukup and Lucius Shepard. All of his award-winning short stories are included (he won the World Fantasy, Edgar, Hugo and Ellery Queen awards), plus dozens of nominated stories. Im' about half-way through, and (if it counts for anything), in my opinion, this is one of those essential volumes for everyone's library. I'm sure Ellison would recommend it. He even contributes two pieces: a (brand new) afterword to "Polly Charms, the Sleeping Woman" (it's entitled, "The Final Adventure of Harlan in Avramland") and "Turn Out the Light," an afterword/essay which originally appeared in the BEST AMERICAN SHORT STORIES 1993 anthology. The ISBN# (for those who want to order it) is 0-312-86729-8 (price is listed at $26.95). That's all for now. Informationally, the man.

TO: Someone headed to the DragonCon. Hey, big favor to ask. If someone at the DragonCon could politely (and carefully) ask HE when he expects EW5 to be released, I would really appreciate. I suggest you ask it carefully because I'm sure someone will have already asked. I just want to hear what he has to say about it. (Just tell him that someone on the site was asking.) Thanks. (And e-mail me when you get the answer) adam webb

Oyez! Oyez! And yowzah-yowzah! Just chatted with Mrs. E, on account of all the pondering about HE's health got me curious, so HERE IS THE OFFICIAL WORD FROM HARLAN: they are both weary and feeling cut up in long thin strips from jet lag, but Harlan's okay -- his heart is as big, black and hard, with a soft golden center, as ever; he's just fer Chrissakes trying to get some sleep. They'll both feel better when they're back on PST instead of Greenwich Mean. So there. See him at DragonCon, if you don't believe me -- ask him a rude question and see how old and feeble he is. Cheers, Doc

Just got the newest B5 magazine - number 3, with Richard Biggs on the cover. It has part one of the HE interview. I haven't read it yet, but it looks like it covers his work on B5 mostly. Part 2 is supposed to go into more B5 and his current book projects --- SwC

In the article mentioned below, it states that the WW Partners in Wonder will not only include the promised Neil Gaiman collaboration, but also collaborations with JMS and Mike Moorcock. Charlie

Where can I find this book that has the story of the movie Soldier in it? PLease E-Mail me. Thank you

For you HE completeists: There's a photo of HE in the new Locus magazine showing him with the other Locus winners. Also, there's a new B5 magazine on the newsstands with Bruce Boxleitner on the cover. THere is one page devoted to HE. Also, it promises a two part interview with HE in the upcoming 2 issues. Charlie

Was going to let someone else field this because I haven't spoken to Harlan since a few days before he left for the Wrap Party in England. However, I don't know of any serious health problems and I'm usually in the loop on that. I would assume an international voyage would be out of the question with serious heart trouble. The White Wolf comments may be more to the point that Harlan did have a major cardiac event almost a year and a half ago and the Edgeworks schedule has suffered slightly due to this. I wouldn't worry a whole lot, I'll check in with Harlan when he gets back this week and let you guys know if anything's wrong...

Rick, Have heard the rumblings that HE is in poor health. Is there any news you can share with us, HE's extended family? Thanks.

Well, I am now officially a college student. Pretty awesome, too. HE is having heart trouble? Poor guy. This true, Rick? And Bill, I think we should have a get-together there.

Well, I've finally gotten some more work done on my crappy little review--only five more stories to do and I'm done, so I ought to be done it soon (finally). On a slightly more important to the world at large tack, I recently saw a disturbing rumor that White Wolf was holding off on EW5 because Harlan was unable to work on it due to heart trouble--I keep telling myself that this can't be, if only because of all the appearances HE seems to be making in the coming months. I do hope HE is hale and hearty ...

Great! So others are coming. Since everyone seems to be giving descriptions, I'm the thin white guy with a square face and jaws so large you'll think I'm storing acorns for the winter. Anybody interested in possibly meeting at some predetermined location on Friday and making plans to go hear HE together? -- Billy D.

Just got back from vacation, and it's been a fine one. Found a used book store in Red Bank with Medea: Harlan's World. Then I took off for GenCon in Milwaukee. I nabbed a flyer for Mad Media 5, where HE will be the Guest of Honor. He's scheduled for a reading / autographing at a local bookstore, a speech at the guest banquet, and running the charity auction. More info can be found at www.madmedia.org. I stopped by the White Wolf booth in the dealer's room. The guy I talked to said that Harlan's been having some health problems lately, and they're optimistically predicting that EW5 will be out before the end of the year. I also picked up a copy of Shatterday in town. In other GenCon news, They Might Be Giants performed, there was a terrific booth selling Peruvian crafts, and I got to play Sonny the Cocoa Puffs bird. Now I'm home, with film ready to be picked up, and a lotta great reading in front of me. Hope you guys have as good a time at DragonCon. Mitch

Bill- I'll probably be at DragonCon Thurs-Sun. After all, what good is having Fridays off if I don't use them? Just look for the short teenager wearing several necklaces. :)

BILL - I'll be at Dragon*Con Thursday thru Sunday. MY MAN Rick will also be in attendance. It looks like I'll also be at Mad Media*Con in Madison at the end of September and am also shooting for Denver in 2000. The world can't come to an end - I'm booked!! You folks see a guy looks like Stone Cold Steve Austin with glasses and a F.O.E. button, walk up and say hi - I never bite unless politely asked to. Ellisonalia - Playboy has a Science Fiction antholgy out at the moment reprinting "All the Birds Come Home To Roost" . PS. I knew they'd screw up the Avengers- I'm just gonna by the poster. Maybe I can edit out the sound and all the non-Uma parts / using my time poorly.....Barney

Yes, "Soldier" is being made based (very) partially on the Ellison short story and teleplay via an arrangement with HE's agent. Harlan even had nice things to say, for a change, about the guy who's doing the script, David Webb Peoples. I ran a quick search and found a Warner Bros press release on the film at: http://www.movies.warnerbros.com/pub/cmp/releases/soldiers.html

While in the theater for "The Avengers" yesterday (which, by the way, is the worst--THE worst; THE stupidest; THE inanest--movie I have ever seen...Even Roger Corman, with an incredibly huger budget and an incredibly decreased imagination couldn't have made one this bad), anyway, I saw coming attractions for a flick called "Soldier" starring, I think, Kurt Russel. Anyone know if this has any connection with HE's Outer Limits episode, or is the title merely coincidence? P.S. And is ANY Webderite still attending DragonCon, or will I be HEing alone? -- Billy D.

FYI: forgot to mention in my post below: SANTA STEPS OUT by Robert Devereaux goes for $39.95. Yeah, it's pricey. But it's a signed/limited edition (an afterword details how the original manuscript was almost published by Willima Morrow and then Tor -- David Hartwell worked at both -- before people got nervous and pulled it at the last second). If you can scrape up the extra samolians, this book is well worth it. A latter day classic of irreverance -- DTS

ALL: hard-pressed as most of us are for cash, I gotta mention this book in case some of you guys can manage to scrape together the dough: SANTA STEPS OUT by Robert Devereaux. It is a limited edition only (at this time) from Dark Highway Press and the ISBN# is 0-9662629-0-5. It starts out in Heaven, with the Big Cheese trying to figure out why Archangel Michael is acting looney. It's from guilt. Cause Michael took the advice of a cherub named Eros, and started a lotta trouble on Earth. Seems that Santa Claus is having an affair with the Tooth Fairy (who was once an ash nymph). To make matters worse, the Easter Bunny is feeling left out, and on the prowl for someone who will ravish him. Like Ellison did in DEATHBIRD STORIES, Devereaux takes a group of sacred icons and turns them inside out. Get this book if you can, it's a corker! -- DTS.

AJ -- I'm paraphrasing, here, but E.Hemingway once said that there are no new ideas under the sun, and that the only reason for anyone to go be a writer was to try to do a new and better job with it than those who went before. And as for the girl -- no. Incidentally, has anyone had a peep at my rant? This is called "fishing for compliments;" or perhaps "cruising for a bruising" is nearer the mark,... Cheers, Doc

Just wanted to stop in for a second and thank everyone for the kind words and kickass comments about the site and the rant lately. I hope you understand that I've said all I feel is warranted about both matters and as much as I appreciate the support it would be a mistake on my part to continue to drum up controversy. ...... Comments on the BOE are accurate as far as my meager knowledge, and congrats on Riddell's SLIPPAGE going to a worthy home! Also, Houghton Mifflin is producing trade paperbacks of SLIPPAGE and ANGRY CANDY in the next few months, so stay tuned...

One of the most basic things that all of us learn sooner or later is that there are those that do, and those that don't, but sit around and bitch about those that do. Rick's put together a web site that'll point one to the work of one of the finest authors ever to hit the scene, and we're all the better for it. Of course, there are the naysayers, the bitching, whining, swamp turnip cry babies who complain about everything but never contribute anything helpful. Not even any constructive criticism. My advice? Fuck 'em, because they don't know what they're talking about, and they're contributing nothing but retarded meanderings to what is, honestly, a very important project. I've never met Harlan. I've never tried to call him, or write to him. But I have read quite a bit of his work. I don't like all of it, but I do find some it appealing. VERY appealing. Especially his social commentary, which is right on the button. The guy wears his heart on his sleeve, and his writing shows it. It's really very interesting and entertaining. Try reading some of it, and reflect on it for a while. You'll be a better person, trust me. And for those of you who find comfort in dung slinging; for those who find joy in crapping on Harlan (or Mr. Wyatt) for they're honest efforts, do me a favor. Get your ass moving and produce something better. Put up, or shut the hell up. Will ya? Will you do that for me? If you won't, do us all a favor and stick it, just stick it.

Aargh! As some of you may know, my first novel (which comes closer to completion each day) has as its premise, the situations and actions of gods no longer revered. Imagine my consternation to find, while happily reading my new copy of _Slippage_, that Unca Harlan proceeds to better any writing I might do on the subject in a measly twenty pages in "Scartaris, June 28th_! Oh, I feel defeated ...

Alex, I am jealous! A signed copy of "Slippage"? Grrrr... Well, then again I didn't have too awful a yesterday either. In brief, it consisted of warm, dry weather, a new book, and a very nice 13 second chat with HE that put me in an awesome mood for the rest of the day. Doc- I've been having some trouble sending you e-mail. Something about an unrecognized address or somesuch thing. Rick- great rant! You tell 'em!

Just de-lurking for a moment to answer Finder's question. The BOE was issued in two states, a hardbound, which was originally supposed to be limited to 200 copies, but there was a second printing (and to confuse you further, both the first and second printings were marked "First Edition") and a paperback, limited to 1800 copies. The hardback was not issued with a dustjacket, but the paperback has artwork (a pen and ink drawing of the man himself, if memory serves) on the bright yellow, easily faded front cover. Hope this helps. Back to lurkersville.

Doc, I'm glad to hear that you were shaken and rattled, but not rolled. Actually, I should have been more clear: I was speaking of my first love OR my last love--I still hold a torch for (and yearn to hold an' touch) both of them. Ah, well; job; book; next, I get the girl, no?

...And may we have them soon. I'm sure it doesn't rate, but may *I* say, AJ, what a grievous error your 1st-n-Last Duchess made by walking out on you? And congrats on the SLIPPAGE, ltd. Here in SF, the ground moved around without permission, as it is wont to do -- to the disappointment of many, including myself, I was not swallowed up. Cheers, Doc

Oh ... it's been a GOOD day ... I get home from buying my week's worth of comics. As I'm reading the last of them (Warren Ellis's _Transmetropolitan_--I HIGHLY recommend it; imagine Philip K. Dick crossed with Hunter Thompson ...), the phone rings. It's the IRS, telling me to report the 24th, thus ending my fourteen-month stretch of unemployment. A minute later, there's a knock at the door. The UPS man is there, smiling at me, handing me the signed, limited copy of _Slippage_ I won from Paul Riddell. Brahma bulls roared deep within my testicles; my heart became a nuclear furnace, and I danced about the home, trilling rebel yells and Indian battlecries. Suffice it to say that my attitude this afternoon was nothing short of full tilt gonzo. The only thing that could possibly have crowned the day would be either my first or my last love walking up the steps to tell me what a mistake she had made leaving me. This, of course, did not happen, but still, the day was a very, very good one nonetheless. May you all have days this good.

Rick: I read the latest rant and have to admire the way you've decided to handle it. You'll probably hear this often, but you're a good egg. Regarding the situation with your grandmother: I've been there. Recently. I know exactly what a steaming pile of shit it can be to sit in such a situation. Having said all that, however, let me offer some advice: Make sure to try to have SOME contact with your grandmother, no matter how far gone she may be. Sure, it'll hurt--hell, just READING your words brought tears to my eyes!--but, in the long run, it'll help to ameliorate any guilt you may have over not contacting her. Myself, I was lucky--or, rather, as lucky as one with a dying relative could be: She had good days. Her decline was a relatively quick one, and her passing came soon afterwards. Still, though the shell in the bed resembled my grandmother not at all in either spirit or appearance, it made me feel human to see her mouth the words "I love you" a day before her heart was fully stilled; to have been there, holding her hand, as the last painful rattle of life slowly eased its way out her throat. I don't mean this to sound as if I'm guilt-tripping you--no; I tell you this in hopes that it will help you to better get along with yourself. Be good, "Sugar". Your grandmother--wherever her true spirit may be--would want you to be happy.

Nicole: according to the guy I spoke with at White Wolf, EW5 should be out in September. -------- Out here, DTS.

Yeah, I'm still alive, I think. Maybe. I haven't decided yet. Finally got a chance to talk to HE. Got both praised and scolded. But all in all, a very interesting experience. Don't know if I'm still going to DragonCon, but I will certainly try. By the way, does anyone know for sure when EW5 is coming out? I've heard both Aug and Sept, but I'm not certain which it is.

Finder- My hardcover copy of the BOE has no dj and I *think* that's how it was issued. Charlie

TAP TAP TAP - Is this thing on? Taking a brief time-out at the conclusion of a massive twelve-day rewrite effort (132 pages of screenplay, no waiting) for a quick post; For the aspiring script scribe who also happens to be tuned into HE, Creative Screenwriting's July/August issue has "With the Eyes Of A Demon: Seeing the Fantastic as a Visual Image", an HE piece on screenplay writing from 1976 (with updating for this publication); there's also an interesting article on Rod Serling's "Planet Of The Apes" script - look for Bruce Joel Rubin on the cover, if you're interested...also, if someone has an answer to a publication question: the small cabal of used book sellers on the net who have listed the Book Of Ellison for sale have identified that the hardcover was issued without a dust jacket; the book itself, though, contains a copyright notice for the cover artwork. Is there an exotic, rare DJ floating around out there, or did Algol/Andrew Porter simply jump the gun and identify something that just plain doesn't exist? (Hey, at 3 AM I can either be philosophical or the anally retentive collector, and I'm not up for much of a discussion right now on just why any supreme being would stoop to organized religion...you pays your ducats and you spins the wheel); Hope everyone is having a gee-whiz kind of summer - me, I've got a couple of scripts in the hands of actual agent-types in El-Ay this week, so my little writer's heart is going pitter-patter. How about some good vibes from out across the web to stay the premature stifiling of the last good dream I've got? Take care,and I'll catch you onthe flip side! Finder

Just thought I'd delurk for a spell to let everybody (especially all the completists) know that HE is writing an introduction to Kurt Busiek's Astro City Family Album TPB, which is due out in September. Paperback is $19.95, HC is $49.95. Besides the obvious value of the introduction, the comic is a pretty good read also. This might be old news by now, if so, I apologize, but I hadn't seen it posted yet so I thought I'd pass it along. Okay, back to lurkersville...

Anyone interested in taking the mook to task over his treatment of Harlan, can write to Dave Kipen c/o the San Francisco Chronicle, 901 Mission Street, San Francisco, CA. You local P.O. should be able to supply the zip code, which I don't have handy. This is the gonniff who lured HE into reviewing books for the Chronic, then emasculated the prose and claimed he couldn't see much difference. Sic 'im, gang! Cheers, Doc

Since no one has posted in a while, thought I'd mention that latest issue of F&SF has a HE parody. Charlie.

Just had to put my dog Oscar down Saturday afternoon. Reading "Abhu" helped a lot. I won't get into the whole story--any interested in the particulars can read "A Dog Of Infinite Jest", posted to the misc.writing newsgroup.

The B Dalton gift certificate had been burning a hole in my pocket long enough, so I went to look for 'Mind Fields'. "Check 'Science Fiction', under 'Ellison'", said the helpful clerk. So I checked 'Art' under 'Yerka', and voila! As Tony Burgess put it, "It was gorgeousness and gorgeosity, O my brothers". Startling images and gripping words (including 'Susan', which shines as warmly as everyone's been saying). Those who consider it a 'coffee-table' book will be disappointed when they find their 'Magic Eye' collection has been killed and eaten. Plus, I picked up a Gahan Wilson collection and a Richard Matheson novel, butt cheap. Life is good. Mitch

If anyone out there is going to the movies this weekend, run (don't walk) to go see "Saving Private Ryan." It's only the best movie I've seen this year, and the first movie (since "Titanic") that I wanted to go out and see again in the same weekend (which I probably will do). And for recommendations on good reads: "A Widow For One Year," if you haven't picked it up yet, "The Alien Years" by Robert Silverberg and (in September) "Rumble Tumble" by Joe Lansdale, "Legends" (an anthology of original novellas written around the fantasy worlds of writers like SIlverberg, LeGuin, George R.R. Martin, and Stephen King), and "Bag of Bones," which is the best Stephen King novel I've read since "Misery" (I read it in four days -- which is fast, for me -- and it runs over 500 pages). In fact, the new King book is a better "haunted house" story than "The Shining." That's all. Out here, DTS.

I just may go, Todd--it depends on what shape I'm in come the weekend.

Anyone who wishes to participate in a forum page about Ellison's long-term feminist literary buddy, Joanna Russ, browse on over to //home.earthlink.net/~donnaneely/ (sorry, folks, this is Not a hypertext link). Philadelphians and perhaps others who want--are you going to the pre-Worldcon Party Friday night? 10 N. Third St, Philly, 7:30 pm.

On Mefisto: According to Science Fiction Weekly (this week's edition), the Mefisto in Onyx screenplay is being written by Gregory Widen. His credits include writing and directing The Prophecy, and co-writing the original Highlander. He is also writing the upcoming Highlander: The Search for Connor. I sort of liked the original head-lopping-off extravaganza, so maybe there's a chance Mefisto's script won't suck. Too hard.

Ooooh! Bill is coming to DragonCon! How lucky can a girl get? Seriously though, I was wondering about a get-together myself. Seems we had talked about it, but never got anywhere. Perhaps some people could look for info on hotels and such, and e-mail the rest. For starters, let's find out for sure who is going. The seemingly never-ending list of who was supposed to go but can't has got me muddled.

Now don't any of you ladies out there in Webderland let your hearts get all aflutter with the swoony excitement of anticipation, but it looks like I'll definitely be attending DragonCon. Got my cattle coach seat ticket from Delta today. Are there any plans yet for a WebderGetTogether? -- Billy D.

Chris- There's a link in this dear ol' great web site to an HE comic bibliography. Check it out. Also, check out the Newsgroup as someone is working on compiling such a list. Charlie

Thanks to Alex Jay and Charlie for the info. I didn't think the Owz could be the fellow with the bug up his butt about Ellison. Speaking of comic books, is anyone aware of a source with a bibliography of HE's comic book material? The Overstreet Guide lists Weird Science-Fantasy #24 as HE's 1st published comic book work. I know there was at least one issue of Daredevil listed as "based on a short story by Harlan Ellison" though I can't remember the details. And, of course, I know about the Dream Corridor stuff. I'm looking to try and put together an HE comics collection but it's pretty tough to find anything close to a complete listing of his works. -chris

Yeah, the comic-book Christopher Priest was once the mild-mannered Jim Owsley, but no, he is not the same as the British writer who made a career out of a chapbook. Owsley changed his name right about the time he started writing the regular _The Ray_ series for DC (he'd edited the Jack C. Harris-written miniseries). For a while, he was just calling himself "Priest" with the "Christopher" an afterthought. it WAS pointed out to him that a writer with that name already existed; a possibly apocryphal tale has him drawing himself up to his full height before saying, "Yeah? Well, I *wear* it better."

Chris- I think there's an American Chris. Priest and an English Chris Priest. I think the English Chris Priest wrote the Last Deadloss Vision, or whatever it was called.. Charlie

Hope I'm not crashing a private discussion but I was looking for some info. Does anyone know if the Christopher Priest of some infamy in the annals of Ellisonia is the same Christopher Priest who writes comic books. And, if so, is it true that Christopher Priest was/is Jim Owsley. Just curious. thanks, chris

This isn't Ellison-related, but since there are a lot of aspiring writers posting here, check out the latest issue of "Absolute Magnitude Science Fiction" (issue #10), Summer 1998. An article by Allen Steele entitled "Primary Ignition" will give you an idea what you are up against when sending in a story to magazines, and what you can expect once you start making sales -- even if you are as successful as Steele, or most of the other published writers. It's a great article. -- DTS

PS - SCOT> Not to make a scene or anything, but it really is MEFISTO, with an "F", not a "ph".

FINDER> "Twitterpated?" Oy. The "Andy Hardy" reference was much more palatable. As for MEFISTO, the last I heard, Harlan was waiting for the goober who scripted THE PROPHECY (w/Christopher Walken; great actor; lousy flick) to collapse under his own weight. He mentioned Jackson and Mel Gibson in the male leads; can't recall who the actress was he mentioned -- this was all way back last September at his Booksmith appearance. If things had changed, though, I imagine he would sound jollier on the phone. Then again, he was still sizzling about that lying yotz at the SF Chronicle, for whom HE will not write again ever, and who has given Harlan to consideration of stopping review work all together. Anyone interested in writing the schmuck(s), let me know and I'll have a hate-mail address in two shakes. Cheers, Doc

And I didn't mean to shout my name back there - I usually leave the rally cries to times of charging up the lighthouse stairs...Finder

SCOT - saw the blip in Fangoria; it was just a typical "will be produced" starring Samuel L. with a script by - well, unfortunately, my memory is shot, and it's been a few hours since I left the Barnes & Noble Reading Room, but I know it wasn't HE (though - and I finally found WHERE I'd seen the blessed reference - the dust jacket to the Ziesing ltd. of Slippage would lead one to presume HE is indeed scripting the film); what comes of all this, of course, remains to be seen...ALL - been out of touch, struck with a severe case of twitterpation (call it "Love Finds Young Finder") and communing with nature/climbing lighthouses in the Carolinas - but the review is coming along (what else is there to do while camping at the beach during a major five-day jellyfish wash-up?). Hope you're all doing well and hanging tough...I'll return with something more substantive down the road a-piece...FINDER

Scot- I saw an Associated Press story just a few weeks ago. It was just a snippet, really, but it had Samuel L. Jackson (who had originally optioned the story personally, I believe, about a year ago), and he sounded very excited about the film. From the things he said, it didn't sound like the movie was past the preproduction stage. (Also I would be very surprised if "Mefisto in Onyx" remains the title; this is pure speculation.) Anyway, Jackson described the movie as being about a (paraphrased cuz my memory ain't what it used to be, and it used to be bad) "telepath who can hear everything from everyone. He's got all these voices in his head and he has to try to drown them out or he'll go nuts, so he's always wearing headphones..." I kid you not. No mention of an electric chair. That doesn't mean that won't be _in_ the film. When I first heard that the piece had been optioned, I thought "they're gonna hafta B.S. a lot." Because there's just not enough there to make an interpretation last two hours w/o sime additions. Oh, yeah. When the interviewer asked Mr. Jackson if he was planning on playing the lead, he said, "Oh, yeah." -Buck

One of pals read in the newest issue of FANGORIA that MEPHISTO IN ONYX has started production, or it might be filming, or something; is this truth, or yet another rumor to get me all worked up over nothing? Does anyone have any information? The IMDB has no information, really, none at all.

Maybe this is moldy news for y'all by now--I don't lurk here as often as I used to--but HE has a new essay in the September issue of Science Fiction Age. I subscribe, and got mine today; newsstands are supposed to start displaying it for sale August 1. HE's essay is basically a plug for Vincent DiFate's sf art book "Infinite Worlds." And if anyone, _anyone_ needed more proof that Ellison is still a force with which to be reckoned (and this includes the idiot reviewer who said of Slippage that HE had become "irrelevant" even though...god, I don't even feel the need to finish this tangent, preaching to the converted and all), then that heretical, disbelieving person needs look no farther than the cover of said issue, which places "Harlan Ellison"'s rinkydink, super-short essay "Worlds Without End, O! Man!"--perhaps one full page of text at most--above, _above_ Terry Bisson's new short story. Even though Bisson's title contains the word "fire," which I can assure you was no accident. Yours in humbly informative service (because I know how it feels to be the goober who Never Gets the Word)

Addendum to comment below: There's also a letter from HE in the issue describing how he and the magazine were duped by the author of a recent Bettie (sp?) Page biography.

There's a "new" HE article in Outre magazine. However, it's a reprint from the Hornbook on a comic artist. I think the article is from 1970. Charlie

>>>* Sue *<<< i love it, a webder-get-together. we used to do something similar amongst bb buddies during my college days and it was always a blast. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .can i throw out the first suggestion? i don't recall when dragoncon is, but i can say when i'll be in the lower 48!! the hubby and i are planning a trip to oregon (ashland, to be specific) from sept. 12 18th. anyone wanting to try and get together there is more than welcome, just email me. also, i could consider some short-hop destinations (portland, seattle, etc.) from there and extend a couple of days if they're more convenient. [my man's got to be back in ak then, so it's a wash for him]. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .well, it's just an idea.... anyway, i have to be judicious with the out-o-state trips, they're pretty spendy from here. other than that, hope everyone's doing well and enjoying whatever version of summer you have. our's is in the 50's and raining. *blech* ta, peg

Rick> Outstanding. Nothing less than bright and shiney and deserving of our thanks and praise. Catching up with the new content cost me sleep, but who sleeps anymore, amyway? I finally got a chance to read "Susan" -- what a sweet wonderful story! Sure it's got some autobographical elements, but as usual, those are the springboard. I can't help but wonder what Harlan, his life and work, would have been like had he connected with Susan earlier. No matter - what is, is. And it's still terrific. Speaking of Sue's, HEY LUESSE> I know you can still thump yer fingers on a keyboard; so write, already - the little people miss getting things in their e-mail inbox... Cheers, Doc

RICK!! *HUG* FABULOUS!! What a great addition to Webderland! In one blow allowed 'DUHs' like me to find things - and relieved the 'puter literate of our incessant whining for "where"... :-) ... I *love* it! Ummm, and about that rant.. Well written, and not a bit like HE.. ;-) .. It's a shame that doing such a wonderful job sets you up as a target for the discontent. sigghhh.. Well, if it makes a difference, not everyone divides the world into Fanboy and "Do It Better Like *I* Say"... We just don't happen to be very verbal about things that don't seem to require comment.. Like, judgements of other people.. **ALL** Hubby and I have debated the whole DragonCon thing, and have modified our plans. It is getting to be more hassle than we can manage to attend, and it's not just accomodations (we can handle that.. hee hee), but mostly whether or not this leg thing of mine will permit by then (WHAT?!?! *not* ride the bikes??? - {grin} - doesn't affect sitting on the bike - THANK GOD!). I'm only good for a few hours on the leg, and then have to lay about with my leg up for longer hours. That is Not Good for all the walking, and standing at a convention. Since our Major Goal was to meet our Webderland friends,anyway, we think setting up a separate trip for that purpose might be a better option, as we could accomodate the leg. Not to mention, that way we'll have more time to spend with each Webderhead Buddy, without a hectic Con Schedule to work around. We'll be contacting potential victi...errr... honorees, as we sort things out.. All you, who *will* be there, have fun!!

Mssr. Berman - check out HE's appearances page, I promise the second I hear anything about an upcoming appearance on the east coast it will go up there. ******* THE REST OF YOU ****** --- I know Webderland is just So Darned Big it's hard to find all the little nooks and crannies. So I did a table of contents for you! Check out http://harlanellison.com/ellicont.htm and click to your heart's content.

Say, aside from Clarion/Odyssey-type workshops and college campuses, does HE ever do stops on the East Coast? Has he ever hit Philly? Or is it necessary to be an Angeleno or to make a pilgrimage to the land of celluloid to get the REALLY good books? Just wondering.

Rick, I read your rant (I know: a lot of alliteration from prentious posters...). Good one! (although, hope you don't mind me sayin' so, you do seem to be a bit er...um...anal...heh-heh). And I'm one of the many who know you do a great job on the site. As for all the schmucks that say you don't (or that it isn't good enough), they can kiss my...feet! (Hey! They're pretty cheesy, and still have the recurring athelete's foot thing going on, so don't worry -- it'll be almost as good as them kissing that other part of yours). Out here, DTS.

Egad, Schindler -- could it be that we have actually met in person? Did I try to kill you? If you have other things to say to me, you have my address. Let's not bother these nice people any further; unless you only do this sort of thing when you have an audience...

By the way, Doc, just so you know: we have at least one other thing in common (besides a taste for good literature). I, too, spent some time in South Texas. Fourteen years to be exact. Some of those in Austin. Most of them in Corpus Christi and the surrounding evirons. About half of my formative years (which might explain a lot). I always get a kick out of telling the bible thumpers around here that I'm an atheist who was raised in "the body of Christ." Just doing my bit to shake up the (twisted) world order. Out here, DTS.

Doc: You may reach me via email at: m.shindler@worldnet.att.net (by the way, your review -- in its entirety -- is now up...all 40 plus hard-printed pages of it -- Holy God!-- I think it ran longer than Ellison's center piece novella in the book -- whew!). And, even though you now have the means to slam me in private, I still say (with love and affection) that you're oversensitive (Ha!). But don't worry, a good zetz in the tuchis from one of your Californi buddies and you'll be right as rain. No more pupik gazing for you, eh buhbie? (Hey! Am I getting the hang of this yiddish thing or what?). Yours in good humor and kvetching, DTS.

BARNEY> I'll be on the lookout for it; whatever it is; there *are* Federal guidelines about what you can send through the mail... Regarding my week (on the presumption that the question was actually sincere, you redoubtable thing, you), it stank. On ice. Bearing that in mind, I hope everyone will take my response to DTS in the manner it is meant: i.e., I wish I had an answer for your question, re the SLIPPAGE review, but I'm as mystified as everyone else, probably more so, given my noted talent for self-interest. As for my over-sensetivity: you should only be plagued by paper cuts from your toilet tissue. At your brith, the mohel threw away the wrong piece. Until you get your own e-mail address so we can have these friendly festivals in the relative privacy of our respective inboxes, why don't you ring someone else's doorbell and run? SUE> Check your e-mail. NICOLE> You've got an incoming on its way, too. ALEX> You are not alone. Welcome to the new people. Howdy to the lurkers, wherever you are. I doubt I'll be at DragonCon. PAUL T. RIDDELL> Great page -- I subscribed at the suggestion of ALEX J. BERMAN. You must drop in at mine sometime; there's a link on the "Links" page (of all places). I, too, escaped small town Texas *and* Oklahoma; we are brothers; lobsters can pilot spaceships, too; still, great site. 'Bye. Doc

DOC - It goes in the mail tomorrow. By the way, my suggestions regarding NOT calling Harlan had nothing to do with you, It was a riff on a monologue from the movie RepoMan given by the scientist with the dead radioactive aliens in the trunk to Emelio Estevez, go figure. RICK - My Man. You effing RULE! I take it all back, every bit of it. I left a note for you over on alt.fan. Eagerly looking forward to reading and downloading "BugFuck" - a serious hole in the East Coast Ellisonalia Repository Previously Located Under Cheyanne Mountain now filled. SUE- When I want to read about the squishy sound your leg makes when liberally applied to your husbands back side I will Fer christsakes ask you about your Sex Life. Sheesh and desist! [I hope you were drinking something carbonated just now] ALL - I'm sorry I didn't offer my floor at Dragon-Con but I'm sharing my room [but not my bed] with two others and an additional person is just too many impossibilities before breakfast. Assignations can however be arranged for a nominal fee as long as neither party is wearing a sword or cape or leading their partner by one of those bondage collars [unless I can film it and secure international distribution rights.] Always willing to take profit away from an overfed con comittee. How was your week? Barney Dannelke [HERC #1] mree mree mree mree

Alex: that was supposed to be a bit of cranky HUMOR. Don't go getting oversensitive on me...or I'll have to call you "Doc." Out here, DTS.

Answering a few of the questioned posited here: I don't have any hard info on the hotel room because although I'll help out, like I said I ain't gonna reserve a room and get stuck for a $300 bill, it ain't my style. You guys need to pick a hotel off the DragonCon website and hook up. **** The SLIPPAGE review will be fixed tonight, and I'll also have the info on where you can get the excellent Ellison interview in Comic Book Profiles **** On reviews - you can send me corrections at any time on posted reviews and I will update them - and sending the review to Ellison is OPTIONAL, I'm happy to give that a pass if you don't want your review looked at **** There will also be a pretty big update early this weekend including the instituion of the "I WRITE" segment of Webderland featuring two Ellison stories, the addition of Rick Cusick's article from GAUNTLET on the Enemies of Ellison, and a new rant. Enjoy! ************ ALSO, BY THE WAY...I am looking for someone who has a good videotape of the Sci-Fi Buzz appearance (or any other audio or video) of Harlan reading his short story "Susan" and any video of Harlan reading "Paladin of the Lost Hour". This will save myself and the Ellisons a lot of time and effort...

DTS: I somehow sense I have offended; my apologies. I only knew of the Harlow experiments. Look at it this way--my life has become the locus of such a hellacious shitstorm lately that I'm throwing myself into writing; I just have this thing about doing things RIGHT. @a la Harvey Fierstein@ Is that so WRRAAAAOOONG? Heh. By the by, did anyone beside myself pick up the Neal Adams "Comic Book Prqofiles" mag? Admittedly, there's only four pages of Harlan, but some of you may be the completist type, so one never knows ... ****** Hushing up now ...

For Alex (so he'll be quiet already): "Psychologists specializing in ethology know of the soft monkey experiment. A mother orangutan,, whose baby has died, given a plush toy doll, will nurture it as if it were alive, as if it were her own. Nurture and protect and savage any creature that menaces the surrogate. Given a wire image, or a ceramic doll, the mother will ignore it. She must have the soft monkey. It sustains her." (This is the introduction which Ellison provided for the first appearance of the story ("Soft Monkey")and which he read on the audio tape version of same. Now. Alex. Hush. Go to your room and play with your toys. --- DTS.

Man! I miss having anything HE related to say. I enjoy reading what y'all say, though. Sue: I'm sorry to hear about your leg. That's such a drag. Email me and complain if you want. I'm in misery, too, but of a different type: grad school. Well, actually, I'm only taking five credits and two of 'em are choir and voice lessons. The other three are Psychology of Music Teaching and the reading/writing schedule is brutal! Five required texts, many other readings, one-three short papers a day and four or five major papers throughout the five weeks of this thing. I've never read so much and remembered so little in my life! Oh, well if I want to continue to earn the "universal, general reinforcer: money" (as Skinner says) I just gotta grit my teeth and deal with it. Bad news is I'm not going west in early September (Sue)as I had thought. Instead, I was asked to conduct the vocal jazz ensemble at a college in town (they want me, but it still needs to be approved since I have so few formal credentials). Anyway, I'll have to hear auditions that week. Think I should call Harlan up and tell him all this???? -/:>)

I almost forgot: SUE? Please do get better. You're too good to be held down.

Oh! "Soft monkey" refers to that mother surrogate experiment (the one where three groups of infant monkeys were put in cages with wire frames of adult monks, padded versions, or none, respectively. The ones without any surrogate grew up retarded or stunted or both whereas the other groups did pretty well)? Damn. I really should have known that, as it's been touted as a turning point in the "Nature vs. Nurture" argument. Okay. Now how does this relate to Alan and Annie? I'm assuming that the real Alan was much loved by Annie, so that throws that out, and the experiment was about MOTHER surrogates, so isn't that backwards from Annie and her doll-son? Oy.

Thanks for the info, all. Sue, good to see you back. Sorry about the leg. Hope it gets better. Well, it's good to see that I'm not the only one scared out of my mind about getting HE's imput. Just thinking about it sets me to pacing the floor like a madwoman. I'm just hoping this will be semi-painless. Still, I'm sending that thing in anyway. After all, he's not that evil, is he?

**ALEX** Re: Soft Monkey - Annie didn't "mishear" the words Soft Monkey - that was the common label for a research experiment on bonding. The experiments dealt with the necessity of bonding and relationships to survival. Annie didn't understand the scientific jargon of the social worker explaining it to her, but correctly remembered "Soft Monkey". In the context of the story, that moniker takes on different meanings - ie: "monkey" being a common derogatory term for blacks, "soft" often used to mean weak.. There was an intro in one of the printings that explained the "Soft Monkey" reference.. - oh, and from what I gather, asking HE about it is tantamount to committing suicide.. HE used that question as an example in one of his Idiot Fan rantings.. That help any??

DTS is right! The Slippage review just sort of ends mid-stream with a "c".. No appology, no excuses, no "ontinued later".. Maybe the Bandersnatch's cousin BandwidthEater got it? And hey **ALL** No, I'm not dead yet.. Just dead in the water.. I have some sort of medical problem which made my left leg swell up like a water balloon, and seems to be one of the sorts of ailments attended to by Medico's who get paid by the hour to diagnose.. They should 'know' something right about the time the insurance stops paying.. And until then, it takes me twice as long to get anything done around here, which leaves me half the time to be on-line.. Figured out how to ride the bike (don't even ask - my stout-hearted Hubby goes pale watching), so it's not going to interfere with my travel plans - though it does affect me - there is now a noticable *squish* sound accompanying my 'biker boot to the butt' adjustments administered these days... Still.., it doesn't seem to impair the effectiveness of the action.. ;-) .. ***RICK*** Wow!! Always something new and cool! Can hardly wait! And about that Slippage review.. *giggle* Soooo - if my review is already finished and posted, will HE _still_ look it over? And will you please tell me when he will do that - so I can be out of town?? Not all of us drool with desire to be 'enlightened' by the Big Guy.. *pauses in thought*.. On second thought, nevermind the warning - I can still get the boots on - just tell HE I said to send it to *you*, Rick, after he proof-reads it.. hee hee.. Sad to say, I noticed a few typo's and Adventures In Creative Spelling *after* it was posted... sighhh.. ***ALL*** I can hardly wait to read the reviews.. So far, it sounds like I'll be able to comfortably return to my Non-pro, Non-intimidating status of yore with ease.. Oh! Side-note.. I am VERY interested in reading what people are writing, but I don't ask for previews to look over and comment on, because it seems everyone likes to send them in proprietary file types instead of plain .txt - and I get REALLY frustrated looking at a file I can't read, lovingly saved - in eternally virgin ASCII... "Great Title! - the brief description in the e-mail had me drooling for more - there it is...... sighhhhh... Wonder what it says?".. This is a friendly hint for all those of you asking people to "look over" their work.. oooo - this puppy got LOOONG fast! Try High - Fly Straight - Drive Safe

NICOLE- E-mail me re: the IMNHAIMS hintbook. I picked up two copies recently at a B&N in the bargain bins. I can assure you they were much cheaper than anything amazon.com has to offer. I'd be willing to sell/trade my extra copy. Charlie

Doc: noticed your review of SLIPPAGE was posted...started to read it...and found that it just kind of died (with small "c" and a burp) before it really got started. Much as I hate to use the vernacular of the day, it seems appropriate: What's up wit dat? -- DTS

NICOLE: I'm about halfway through my review (not counting the "print it out and go over it, pencil at the ready" edit) and won't finish too far behind you. Of course, if this insomnia holds, I'll beat you by a country mile--I seem to be doing my best writing at times when no one should be up without good reason. As for the hintbook, I got mine through Amazon.com--at a discount, no less!

How are everyone's reviews coming? Rick, do you have any more info on the rooming situation come DragonCon, name of the hotel, etc? Might miss the first day, but will certainly be there for the rest of it. Also, didn't see my name up there with the other reviews in progress. Just for your info. Irina, welcome to the Boards. I don't know of any TV appearances in the near future, but then again, I don't have any special insider info there. You might check the "Appearances" section. I'll probably have my review in early, about mid-July. Got struck by inspiration and I'm writing like a maniac. Oh, and anyone know how I can get a copy of the hintbook for the IHNMAIMS game? Still can't find it.

*Warning--this message and the one below have Spoilers in re the film WALKABOUT, in answer to Bill Dennis's query on July 5. Bill--further, to answer the queries I'd forgotten: She's eventually afraid of the abo boy because she has her own (not altogether foolish, considering the lack of contraception) sexual worries, and also because he was inspired by the ugliness of a highway to try to exorcise evil white spirits (hence his painted dance that spooks the hell out of the Cauc girl and amuses her little bro. I wouldn't be surprised if the filmmakers didn't want to suggest racism on her part, as well, even if only internalized and unconscious, but if my father had taken my brother and me out to the desert to put us all out of our misery, and he succeeded in killing only himself and stranding us, likely to our deaths unless, as happens in the film, an abo boy on his Walkabout passage-to-adulthood ritual befriends us and shows us how to survive...if all that had befallen me, I would've been spooked by someone dancing around me with face paint as well. The sickness of white society is represented by the insane father, and etc. etc. Boy, what a terribly condescending plot and theme has the movie (you loved the epilog, as Jenny Agutter a few years along is a bored housewife greeting her Cauc Aussie husband at the door but daydreaming of her days in the bush...). Remarkable what an impression this bad, beautifully shot film had on me almost twenty years ago. THE LAST WAVE deals with many of the same issues better, and in a fantasy context for you purists.

Well, folks, if you really want a copy of the Sinatra tribute, I might be able to obtain (I'll have to check my copy for the excerpt/reprint!). "Frank Sinatra Has a Cold" did indeed appear in ESQUIRE originally, and I suspect that the incident in which Francis Albert was hassling Harlan Jay occurred in the nightclub Ellison got into on a bet with Aaron Spelling, and wrote at least two essays about (one each in HORNBOOK and WATCHING, if I remember correctly). Sinatra, irked and full of himself (with a head cold), notices that Ellison is wearing boots of the mid-60s style in the club, rather than shiny loafers, and decides to slap down the upstart. Talese quotes Ellison: "I hate to shake you up, but I dress to please [or, possibly, "suit"] myself." This escalates as the club manager or owner and lesser members of Sinatra's entourage grow respectively desperate and affronted at HE's lack of deference for Sinatra, who needles Ellison for a bit while Ellison attempts to ignore him and continue playing pool with someone. This all from my memory of reading the essay in SMILING THROUGH THE APOCALYPSE, a collection of ESQUIRE essays from the 1960s. BILL!--WALKABOUT--well, the abo guy kills himself because he knows that demon suburbanization will continue to encroach on his world, and also so director/screen adaptor(? on some of his films, he coscripted) Nicholas Roeg can have some cheap tragedy at the end of the film to go with the cheap horror at the beginning. Seeing Jenny Agutter and the young abo man romping together when I was 13 certainly made an impression, and perhaps his sexual frustration (no safe place for them to stay together) was meant to factor into his choice for demise. Dunno how closely the film hews to the novel, and haven't seen it since age 13 to refresh. But gosh almighty can't Nicholas Roeg take a pretty picture? (Even the non-nude-Amanda-Donohoe sequences of CASTAWAY are often breathtaking, and I saw DON'T LOOK NOW for the first time uncut at the National Gallery of Art, presented in part for the view of Venetian architecture the film displays.)

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