[ Home ] : [ News ] : [ Links ] : [ Pics ] : [ Bio ] : [ Store ] : [ Resources ] : [ Wanted ] : [ Comments ] : [ Rant ]

The Ellison Bulletin Board

Comments Archive - 07/09/98 to 12/06/98

I'm going to weigh in here on the notion of "targeting" a book to an age bracket. Shoot way over their heads. Way over. I just did a reading for my daughters 6th grade class for Halloween of Ray Bradbury's "Pillar Of Fire". While we were on the topic of "horror" fiction and how to really frighten people I ran down for them the plot to Jerome Bixby's "It's A Good Life". In addition, to pad my time I gave them the notion of a literary tradition and using "Pillar" traced that particular story's influences back through Dunsany and Lovecraft to Poe. Oh, by the way, this was a Catholic school so the notion of a re-animated corpse wandering around and killing people while trying to re-animate other dead people was, lets just say dicey. Not only did nobody give me any shit about content but the teacher said it was the longest a majority of that class sat still since the beginning of the year. I went at the surrounding material almost exactly the way I would have had they been seniors and I am told they kept coming back to it in classroom discussions for a couple of days. Since then four of the students have started reading Bradbury and one took a run at Poe. I think three of the students were bored out of their minds but I'm told by the teacher that 1 in 10 is a tolerable percentage for disinterest. I attribute part of the success of that reading to the fact that for an hour they were playing catch-up to material that was above the "Goosebumps" pablum they have grown accustomed to. My father used to read Kipling and Stevenson to me because children's books bored him silly. Half the time I'm sure I didn't know what was going on but I didn't lose interest. Half of curiosity is that "what the hell is that supposed to be?" process. So, shove it in front of them and let their little brains try to sort it out. That's how big brains are nurtured.. Next - how to confuse a cat...

PEG: Thanks for asking about my presentation. It went very well. My professor told me after class that he enjoyed it a lot and noted that, in his experience, it is very unusual for a student who just gave a presentation on an "unknown" (to the other students) author to be asked by a number of students--in my case it was three--for titles of books for sale by that author. That happened in the break just after my presentation. Who knows if more people will ask for more information from me about Ellison's books next week. --------Shaz

Peter: I wasn't underestimating myself... I was making an honest evaluation of my first impression of "The Man Who Rowed Christopher Columbus Ashore." My point still is you're not a 17-year-old DUTCH boy whose mother asked me to recommend some Ellison science fiction stories (because science fiction is, apparently, his main interest) that weren't, in her words "sentimental like 'Susan'." Thus, I would say "The Dragon on the Bookshelf" from SLIPPAGE would also fall out of this boy's interest range --you have to admit that it is quite sentimental--if his mother was already concerned that a story like "Susan," which is the story I presented (in a taped narration with music, by Troy Wayne, and the Yerka painting projected via slide projector), was too sentimental for her son's tastes. And we both know that Deathbird Stories isn't really science fiction, but has enough science fiction elements in it, combined with timely issues and the interesting aspect of new (non-Christian) urban gods, to probably "hook" a 17 yr. old science fiction fan, and thus compel him to search out more of Ellison's fiction. I stand by my recommendation. Thanks for asking about my presentation. It went very well. My professor told me after class that he enjoyed it a lot and noted that, in his experience, it is very unusual for a student who just gave a presentation on an "unknown" (to the other students) author to be asked by a number of students--in my case it was three--for titles of books for sale by that author. That happened in the break just after my presentation. Who knows if more people will ask for more information from me about Ellison's books next week. --------Shaz

I need to learn to wake up before I start responding to things.... I meant to say, my review of Approaching Oblivion---Peter

Shaz::: Yeah, I'm not a seventeen year old boy... I'm a twenty year old man. Even more to the point, I had just turned nineteen when I had read slippage. I'll concede to the fact that english not being your primary language would create problems. But honestly? I don't like the idea of steering people toward "safe" or "easy to understand" literature (not that I'm calling Deathbird stories either, its a principle that bothers me). I think... and this is my own personal belief so please don't take any offense at what I'm suggesting. I think that a more helpful suggestion would have been to find and read slippage, and then tell them to discuss the stories amongst themselves. They might not all get it. They might all have different views of what actually happened in some of the stories. They might have many different thematic interpretations. If they discuss the stories however, they stand a greater chance of being able to understand them, and will in essence increase their enjoyment of the work. If you read my review you'll see that even I don't understand all of Ellison's work. Catman still loses me. I'm looking for Kadak frustrated me before I could enjoy it because of the yiddish terms and phrases that make it the story it is today. I had to read Kiss of Fire three times before I could understand what was happening... and that was in english! So please don't underestimate yourself or your peers when it comes to good literature, you end up doing everyone a disservice.---Peter (egads! I'm feeling old) O'Sullivan

PETER: Yes, well, Slippage may not have been too complicated for YOU. However, YOU are not a 17 year old boy whose first language is Dutch, lives in Holland (which means that a story like, say, "Jeffty is Five" would be largely lost on you because of the generation gap as well as the lack of knowledge of modern, not to mention 1930s-40s, AMERICAN culture), and didn't learn to speak English until the school started teaching it to you at around age 11--and whose main literary interest at this point in life is science fiction. I'm 28, and doing my masters in English, and I have to tell you that "The Man Who Rowed Christopher Columbus Ashore" wasn't easy for me. I guess my problem is I have to really understand a story on multiple levels, probably because I'm really into interpretation and literary criticism, and am not satisfied with merely surface enjoyment of a story. I have to really "get" it--ALL of it. But back to Deathbird Stories. Deathbird Stories struck me as a perfect getting-to-know-Ellison book for such a teenage boy because of its urbanity, its gritty realism spiked with fantastic elements. The theme of the new urban gods is intriguing. Now, there are stories in Slippage that would be a good introduction as well, such as Mephisto in Onyx, but not the book as a whole. Besides, if you saw how much you have to shell out for an imported American book at the bookstores here, you'd understand why I wouldn't recommend Slippage for said teenager when he could spend less money on Deathbird and probably get more out of it at this point in his life. My 2 cents. -----Shaz

Shaz - There are two copies of Deathbird Stories for auction on the eBay auction site. I have ventured there and bid on two HE books that I do not own. Unfortunately, the auctions conclude over the weekend, so I will have to wait until Monday to see how I did. As for HE writings to start a person off with, I personally started off with The Glass Teat. Got it at the only second hand bookstore in the town where I went to college. It seemed really interesting, but I had classes and a job and then I was majoring in tech. theatre so I was always working a show or three, and I never got around to it. Mentioned it one day to my shift supervisor, and she got really excited and made me promise to loan it to her. She returned it in time for spring break, and that was all it took. The one thing of HE's that I have never been able to locate, not even on interlibrary loan (and these are the people who sent to Washington state for a couple of out of print Jo Clayton books for me) was The Other Glass Teat. I have a lot of HE books, even Medea, Harlan's world (which is really a treat)and two Best of SF books edited by Isaac Asimov with several HE stories (and some really entertaining comments by the Good Doctor regarding HE). Shaz, HE is such a good writer, anything would be a good place to start. I saw that special edition of Mefisto in Onyx at Uncle Hugo's (really great used/new SF bookstore in Mpls) that I wanted in the worst way. I really hate when books with beauty and brains come out and I have no funds. How about Repent Harlequin, said the Ticktockman? (I just bought that really gorgeous oversize special edition at Borders. Feeling really smug and happy about that!) Anyway.

Peter - I don't have the whole shebang for you (all my reference works are packed away at the moment, and I'm not up for extensive net search), but I do know that an adaptation of "One Life..." was done for the CBS take on "The Twilight Zone" that HE worked on, which aired in the mid-eighties (in a similar time frame, if memory serves - and sometimes, folks, it doesn't serve at all - to Spielberg's "Amazing Stories" on NBC). Possible you've got a little memory cross-over? I remember precious little of "Amazing Stories", save for the star studded casts and "The Family Dog", which took forever to develop as its own series and bombed when it did. Hope this helps...hmm - I wonder if I still have my new TZ tapes from the '85-'86 broadcasts on CBS...Finder

Duh! I knew there was a reason I came on here in the first place..... I was shuffling through my mental library of childhood memories and came up with an interesting one. I was wondering if anybody could confirm it for me. When I was a kid (about eight) there was a show called Amazing Stories, produced by Steven Spielberg. Now I watched that show religiously when I was younger and so while I don't have clear memories of the stories, I do have tidbits still hiding in the back of my brain. I remember one episode about a tall dark haired yuppie type who finds an old toy soldier with his stuff. With this soldier he does a Bid Time Returns to the past where he watches himself as a kid stealing the toy soldier from a shop, and then watches as his parents scream at the kid. Was this an adaptation of Ellison's "One Life, furnished in early poverty" or is my mind playing tricks on me in my old age? (okay, twenty isn't that old... but still) Don't ask me what caused me to think of it. I didn't even make the connection until recently... any takers?---Peter

Shaz:::Slippage too complicated? Scare away newbies? I'll have you know that when I was a newbie not a year and a half ago, I read slippage and found myself searching high and low for anything ellison I could get my hands on. Before that however I was never able to find anything. I'd been looking for his work for at least six months before I ran into that gem. I think that Slippage is an excellent starter. Peg::: 1)If Ellison had never become a writer I think he may have worked at some newsstand somewhere between Ohio and New York (maybe still in Paynesville). He would have stood in the same booth for forty years with a dour expression on his face and a comment for everyone who picked up the latest copy of whatever happens to be the current literature of the religious right. 2)I think that Ellison would find that the best thing about human beings is their infinite capacity for compassion and imagination. I think he'd find that the worst thing about human beings would be their sheer reluctance to use either. 3)I'm gonna have to go with... he was a gas station attendant. Charlie::: I don't think Ellison has actually ever gone on PI to plug anything. I once saw Maher plug "Repent Harlequin" but the thing had been out for a while and HE'd been on before in that time... but we can hope.---Peter

*SHAZ* - I don't know about future printings (except it will be in an Edgeworks volume sometime). However, you can get "Dreams with Sharp Teeth" from HERC for $20. This has 3 volumes - Deathbird Stories, I Have No Mouth and I Must Scream, and Shatterday - which would be great for your interested student. If that's just too pricey, email me a list of titles at home and I'll see what I can dig up at the local used stores (when I get back ~ 12/10). BTW, you didn't say how the class went???----------------{eg

ARRRGH! I didn't know that DEATHBIRD STORIES was already out of print!!! After my class presentation on Ellison today, one of the students asked me to recommend a good Ellison short story collection to start off a 17-18 year old for whom English is his second language. I, of course, recommended Deathbird Stories, since I think Angry Candy may be too dark, slightly mainstream, and autobiographical for a 17 year old who's into science fiction, and Slippage has some stories that are probably too advanced/complicated NOT to scare off a newcomer to Ellison. And now I find out that Deathbird Stories is listed as out of print on Amazon.com and Barnes and Noble! *SIGH* Does anyone know if there's going to be another printing of Deathbird Stories anytime soon? ---------Shaz

Rick- Thanks for the update. Does that mean HE is promoting a book on PI- Could it be Edge. 5, he says with fingers crossed. Charlie

Just got word from HE that he will be on POLITICALLY INCORRECT WITH BILL MAHER on Monday, Jan 4, 1999. PI is on ABC, check your local listing for showtime (it's probably about 30 minutes after you go to sleep, but what the hey).

I'm with Peter. Truce. And, in an effort to drag the conversation kicking and screaming in another direction, here's an invite to submit even an --uninformed-- opinion on what Harlan had to say to these questions I asked during my call; consider it some of my divulgence on the call contents. Frivolous guesses also welcome - points for humor and originality. (Barney and Rick, be nice and let some other folks guess first, we all know that you guys know just everything about Harlan...] Details on these posted in a week or so. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- #1 If he wasn't a writer, what would Harlan like to do for a living? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- #2 {I'll spare the long intro conversation to this question and just leave you with...} I asked Harlan what he thought the best and worst qualities of people were? (ps the worst one is more common knowledge - I've even seen it elsewhere on this page - so there's more credit for the best one] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- #3 and for total trivia, what job did Harlan do that was related to the industry I work in now ? [BTW, I knew he'd done all sorts of stuff, but this was one of the true surprises of my conversation. And yes, I'm purposely making it harder by not reminding you what I do for a living....] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The Pegster

Re:this whole Amarin/ellison/charity/free speech/opinions/bullcrap issue. This discussion has been going on for a month now. I call a truce. Please, let us agree to disagree and move on with our lives. I eralize that I'm as quick to respond as anybody on this board, but please! I beg of everybody. Let us stop.--- This message has been brought to you by the pychosis that controls the being named peter.---Peter

Re: in defense of Amirin. Okay, so Amirin is intitled to her opinion, but we're not? I've just re-read my own response to Amirin, and there is certainly much of the affronted, snapping jerk, but nowhere do I suggest that she stop posting. If she's allowed to her opinion, then so am I. And if my opinion happens to be that her opinion is so much bunkum, then . . . Oh, and another opinion: If you're so proud of being the voice of dissent, then why do it anonymously?

I've always considered South Park to be an affont... I mean affront to wisdom. But then again, what do I know? I'm the guy who puts swift and voltaire in my list of favorite writers... I just deleted several lines of ranting that I think I'l formulate into an essay. ---Peter

Peter *** you're paraphrasing Ellison, but you're misquoting Flaubert, whose turn of phrase revolved around everybody being entitled to "their enlightened and informed opinion". I only mention this because I am reminded of that other font of perrennial wisdom, Mr. Garrison from South Park, who tells us "There are no stupid questions, only stupid people." Currently reading "Cold Snap" by Thom Jones and listening to Rasputina. Ellison question of the day / Why is the orchard owner crying in "On the Slab"? Hey! Kid! Put that needle back in the hamster! How many times have I told you to leave my experiments alone, damnit. Where is my duct tape...

Okay, I'm going to misquote ellison on this one. We have nothing against people having and expressing their opinions. We do have a problem with people expressing blatantly stupid, uninformed opinions.---Peter

To all of you alleged forward thinkers out there, why on God's green Earth can't someone express an opinion on any given subject. Personally, I could give a hoot about the fact that someone wants to spend his or her hard earned dollars chatting with this gentleman. However, I pride myself on being the voice of dissent, if, for no other reason than to take temporary residence in the vacancy so many of you have in your heads. I don't know this person, but continue to speak your mind whoever you are. That's all I have to say about that.

DESTRY -- Nope. Edgeworks Volume 5 has not yet been released. I dunno what the deal is, but I, too, have been waiting with baited breath. I've refused to allow myself to read the online version, so that I could have the pleasure of reading The Complete Glass Teat for the first time from my very own copy. I feel your pain.

HELP! I'm trapped in a widdle-bitty podunk town where our one bookstore knows NOTHING about Edgeworks 5. I grow frustrated. Has it been released? If so, I must use up more company "online time" to order it from otherwhere. Many thanks in advance for news you might have!

Barney/Rick- Thanks for the replies. I was curious b/c I was looking at an old issue of Rabbit Hole which mentioned that "Children of the Streets" was being reissued around 1984 or 85 with new stories, but I don't recall it ever being issued. I thought it might have been one I missed. I do have my copy of The Juvies. I'm finally (!) reading Memos (Memoranda!) from Purgatory. It's definitely a quick read b/c it's very interesting. I feel like I'm in the middle of the fight between HE and Candle, with the hankie in their mouths, and pulling for HE to pull it out against the goon. Wow. (I'm speechless, can't you tell (-: Charlie

Peter**** no no no no no TURN ON your ego before you write. Then leave it on just to be safe, In fact, have multiple backup generators installed and have your ego re-wired for 220 amp service if it's not there already. Feel free to beat this metaphor to death - I have to go address the crowd below my balcony - where's my gun...

Isn't it funny how we allow arbitrary numbers to control how we feel about our work? I've started working on a new book (one that I'm detemermined to finish writing) and made the mistake of running the first six hundred words through my grammar checker. The analyis gave it a grade level of 5.6 (as compared to a Hemingway short story which is 4) and I'm scared shitless. Not because the writing is technically flawed. I have revision for that. But because I'm not sure if I'm a competent enough writer to pull off this story. I know that I should turn off my ego before I write, but I felt that putting my fears out into the open will somehow make them easier to conquer. So if anybody wants to they can ignore this self deprecating bull caca, I'll be done in a minute. Okay, I'm breathing, I'm breathing.-Rick, I'll still be able to do the reviews. They'll propel me into the proper frame of mind I need to write. Otherwise I stare at my screen for hours on end. okay. I feel better now. I can go on with what I'm doing. ---Pete (going mad one word at a time)

BARNEY - you are right. "The Children of the Streets" was the original manuscript title for THE JUVIES, but I must have hit the database wrong or had a brain fart, there were no further editions past the 1961 one...

Rick, Barney - Thanks for the straight dope. This makes EGH the first Ellison book I've bought strictly as a collector's item, rather than for the stories (I already have Ellison Wonderland). Nicole - Whatta ya tryin to do, kill the guy? Geez! Mitch

Rick ** great minds post at the same time of day, eh? I'm confused. I don't think Charlie has any edition, or at least I didn't get that from his post. I checked your bibliography engine and you only list "The Juvies" and the table of contents from 1961. Islets of Langerhernes lists "Children of the Streets" but credits the copyright as 1961 with no picture so I have to assume he is being polite and is referring to "The Juvies". He lists no table of contents. My Pyramid and Ace sets don't have "Children of the Streets", only "The Deadly Streets". The Swigart only goes up to the 1980's but only lists "Children" as an alternate title for "Juvies". While I have seen the title on Harlan's published works pages I don't recall both titles being on the same page at the same time. For instance - early printings of "I Have No Mouth and I Must Scream" list "The Juvies" and Ace reprints like "No Doors, No Windows" list "Children Of the Streets" but not both. The Richmond bibliography [3.0 - a work in progress] has the same information as above. This says to me that no such book exists. Does somebody have something I don't have? I hope not. A future possibility is that much of the table of contents of "The Juvies" could comprise the backbone of "Rough Beasts" although there is plenty enough other early material floating around. And that's why I don't do two shows a night! Yours in anal retentativeness. Barney

Ahem. I'll attempt to remove these burlesquian shackles from my feet... Please allow me to apologize for my remarks here on this board. I misunderstood the phone/auction piece and reacted much too quickly, and much too spitefully. I did not mean to attack Peg for her support of the charity. I wish to apologize also to Mr. Ellison. One's anguish must not be taken lightly. Not an excuse - but I am still young, and a student, and sometimes the best lessons are the ones least expected. My purpose was to show the outrageousness behind the $500 for a 20min phone call... but I see that no such fault need be found. Charity is charity, and we strive to help others. And sometimes it's lonely out here. Please accept this from my heart. Believe me, I was just struck through the soul by the crackling, highly seared, highly charged, quickened white fire of a lightning bolt. Amy

*BARNEY* - I'd love to check it out. However, as my experience with the phone call taught me, big brother here blocks auction sites. Maybe another time... when does the auction end? I get home on the 10th, and could look then. ---------------------Peg

Nicole** So, was he in the Neon or the Packard? Mitch *** "Earthman, Go Home" was one of those cases of the publisher thinking the author wouldn't know or care as long as the check was in the mail. They may have thought the original title was too cute or self referential and that putting a cheap painting of Robbie the Robot on the cover would help. It is to laugh. No reprisals that I am aware of. Charlie *** The Juvies was never reprinted to my knowledge under that title or the ms. title "Children of the Streets" although there was talk of this being one of the later titles for both the Pyramid/Jove and Ace re-issues. Some of the pieces have shown up elsewhere and "Matinee Idyll" is the launch point for "Spider Kiss" Confusion with "The Deadly Streets" from the same period doesn't help. But I hope this does... All **** Shameless plug - I know you all are feeling flush with the holidays around the corner so I thought I'd mention I just posted 20 Ellison lots on e-bay ranging from $3 - $10.00 Caloo calay, da basement door be flung wide open today! Something must pay for these wretched excesses and the white slave trade isn't what it used to be. Later folks....

Let's get you all here...MITCH - "Earthman Go Home" was a screwover by the publisher, who apparently liked the title better. HE hit the roof when he saw it and subsequent editions used the correct title....CHARLIE - "The Juvies" was SUPPOSED to be titled "Children of the Streets" but again the publisher had other ideas. All other editions, including the one you've got which is probably an Ace paperback, use the correct title. For questions like this, why not go to the bibliographical database at http://www.webtoys.net/~rwyatt next time? NICOLE - just went to Dangerous Visions last week, should have a picture of Mr. Cover and the store somewhere on the site in the near future. EVERYONE - Harlan did read some of the comments on here (from the Amirin stuff forward), but he gagged and passed out when he read Nicole's "isn't Harlan the most awesome guy?" and had to be given and adrenaline injection to recover consciousness....

Hey gang! Hope you all had a happy one. Just got back from Milwaukee, with an interesting find: a paperback edition of 'Ellison Wonderland', retitled 'Earthman, Go Home!'. Does anyone know the story behind this, if there is one? Thanks for any info you have. Mitch

Query: Was The Juvies ever re-released in the mid-80's under the title "Children of the Streets"? Charlie

Yeah, that's him! Yes, I visited DV when I was in LA last summer. Had a horrid time finding it, because it's so small. Him and my uncle teased me mercilessly, but it was all good. You know that chair HE sat in while he wrote that story in the window? Very comfy, it was. I think I mentioned that I was a Web Rat, too. I also got another treat- heading back to my uncle's house, I got a glimpse of Da Man himself driving down the road. Didn't see his awesome house, which was a pity, but I did get a good look at the school he was all up in arms about. That place is nice, but it's huge as anything.

NICOLE ** Arthur Byron Cover is the name your looking for. By the looks of this post are we to assume that you just took a little trip out to Sherman Oaks?

I still lurk frequently, but apparently, I haven't been paying attention. I just read "Susan" online. Had heard about the beauty of that story, and MAN! All I wanna say about it is I heard it. I know why the cat is cryin', I felt it. If I ever meet my own "susan" (kinda brings to mind Johnny Cash and the boy named Sue, don't it??), maybe I'll yet live it..... Anyway, many thanks to Rick, HE, etc. for casting that bread upon the cyber waters. I will pay more attention from now on. I will also do the proper thing and patronize the store. Again, thank you, thank you, thank you and please pass the kleenex.

Just got around to checking out Harlan's works online. "Susan" is a wonderful piece of work. It was easy to see how much he had taken from his life. It's true that you can really get to know a person by his or her writings. I think (or I may be imagining it), but did someone say something about places to find HE books? If so, a good place is Dangerous Visions in Sherman Oaks, CA. They have an online store, too, which I'm sure you have a link to, Rick, but it is really worth the trek if you're in the area. I got to talk with...dangit, what's his name, the writer with blonde hair who is a friend of Harlan's....anyway, that was a neat experience in itself. And they have a huge table just covered with HE's books and recordings. Maggie- yes, some of us have seen each other at cons (look at Rick's DragonCon 98 pictures), but we're mostly just a big group of friends that got to know each other over this board. At least that's how it was for me, anyway.

Alex - If you'd like to check the place out for yourself, it's the Book Pit, just off of Broad St, behind a camera shop. They've got a sandwich board sign on the corner, with a bat logo. It's the kind of place where you can happily get lost for a few hours. Happy hunting! Mitch

Mitch: I had a similar experience last month in the Hague. I wandered into De Slegte, which is a used & remainders book store chain in Holland and Belgium, and started browsing through the science fiction paperbacks section. Admist a rack of sci-fi pulps, I spotted ON AN ODD NOTE by Gerald Kersh! I was very surprised, and quite pleased that it was priced at under US$4.00. This is the same bookstore where I found the copies of Ellison's Dutch-translated story collections, HOE KAN IK SCHREEUWEN ZONDER MOND and DE HELDEN VAN DE HIGHWAY. Wonders never cease. --------Shaz

MITCH: I hate you. I was just in Red Bank (actually, Little Silver, but it's almost the same thing) for a weekend party! Aargh! Enjoy the book, though ... Darn. :ož

Wonders never cease. I'm in this terrific used book store in Red Bank. The clerk notices I've got Dick's 'Flow My Tears...', and directs me to a display case for more of his work. I get there, and what to my wondering eyes should appear, but 'Men Without Bones' by Gerald Kersh. K'ching! I checked the Wanted list, and it isn't one of the books HE's looking for, so this baby's a keeper! DOC - Benny's pizza, of course! The biggest slice in Jersey. Mmmmmmmm...Mitch

You know, I would like to thank everybody for being so understanding about my duplicate entries problem. This site is my first foray into the cyber world and clearly I chose an excellent place to start. So thanks, y'all are terrific, but then what else would HE fans be? Anyway. A new bookstore opened up by house, and being completely unable to resist bookstores, I went. I have also recently given up working for non-profits, mostly because I was tired of working 3 jobs and still being broke all of the time(this is so sad, but I am making more after 4 months here, than I did after 6 years as a Job Coach). So, the new bookstore and the new paycheck just all ran together and I walked out of the store with a really beautiful edition of "Repent Harlequin, Said the Ticktockman!" Have you seen this? It is beautiful(I have a hard time resisting books anyway, but books that have looks and brains are damned near irristable)! Not only that, but it has a new bit at the front of the book! At least, it wasn't in any of my other copies of the story. Peter: Don't feel bad, all of my friends are the same way. I keep after them though. I gave the guy at the bookstore a bad time for not knowing HE too. Have all of you guys met at cons or something?

FYI-In the latest issue of that "you-know-what" channel's magazine, it has an article about the Seeing Eye Theatre (am I getting that right??-I don't have the mag. in front of me) Anyway, HE is suppose to be doing the introductions to these tapes just being released on Dove Audio. It mentions that "Wanted In Surgery" will be released in the second batch, around March or April of next year. HE is quoted in the article-HE sez how he enjoys radio and would rather do that than TV. It's in the Jan. 99 issue. Also, FYI, there's an ad. in the magazine stating that the B5 tape of "A View From the Gallery" is out on tape- co-story idea by HE. Charlie

LADYPEST> As I always say, "If you can't tease your friends, what's the point in having them?" EVERYONE> Look, I see that Amirin has put the proverbial bug up the group-tuchis, but I think it behooves everyone who frequents this board -- Otto, Pete, DTS (who should know), and yes, even Rick -- to remember: I AM THE TOUCHY, OVER-SENSATIVE ONE, HERE. This is a long-standing tradition; just look at the older posts! John's the smart Beatle, Paul's the cute one, George is the spiritual one, Ringo is,...well, Ringo, and I'm the touchy, cranky one. So can we please let the matter rest? Seriously, people make assumptions, however gross, whatever level of information they have available, balancing it against there own (sometimes pointy-headed) ethics. If I might employ another Doc-ism, we can agree to disagree, just so long as you remember that I am right. RICK> The review proceeds apace; sorry it's taking SO LONG, but there's no task quite so Herculean than trying to explain the obvious. You might have to make-do with a nice, juicy overview. Also, one of my novels has found its teeth, and consented to be written (at last). PEG> Harlan's got a way about him, don't he? SUE> Excellent point. MITCH> A slice of Benny's *what?* ALL> My apologies for posting so infrequently, but life has been. (And that's just exactly how I wanted that sentence and this post to end.) Cheers, Doc

Hmmm. I could just imagine myself bouncy and beaming after a conversation with ellison. It's just that if I were to call all of my friends saying that I'd spoken with the man, half would say "who?" and the other half would say "Isn't he that guy you're always trying to get me to read?" ---Peter

Great that you two got to talk, Peg! Isn't Harlan the most awesome guy? I remember how I was when I got off the phone with him for the first time. I was all happy and bouncy and calling all my friends to tell them that I actually got to talk to *Harlan Ellison*! Now, all you have to do is meet him, which is an experience in itself, let me assure you! And if you can make eye contact with him first time, you have one over on me. Actually, getting to talk to him is a big reason to get my reviews done. BTW, is Ralph Nadar getting to be something of an in-joke around here? ;) I only got yelled at *once*!

Rick- I think you've hit on why trolls get up peoples' noses. We assume that they are sane and rational human beings who are completely capable of understanding reason. I don't think anybody wanted to believe that they were dealing with the "six year old who shouts 'doody' in a dinner party" (great analogy by the way) but rather a reasonable human being who was just expressing his (albeit uninformed) opinion. While later posts of said undesirable individual would illustrate his undoubted closed mindedness, by then it is too late and the flood gates have been opened. Trolls feed off of the desire of people to believe that they are on even fighting ground. When in fact, the troll is undermining the foundation upon which the posters stand by trying to provoke violent reactions. okay, enough internet psychobabble. Let's just ignore the fucker. ---Peter

Allrighty it was fun for a while but at this point we're just being trolled. I believe the contentions about HE's ego have been successfully dealt with, let's not fire off a 3 page retort just because some random anonymous fuck called us losers. You don't try to engage in detailed conversation the six-year old that runs into their parent's dinner party, shouts "doody!", and runs off, do you?

Amarin, Amarin, Amarin... (*sigh* I just KNEW I shoulda took the time to say it the nice way) I'm sure your presence on the board would be welcome in more constructive or at least pleasant conversation, no need to whisper off. That's not the intent. Haven't you yet gotten the point?? If the guy in a trenchcoat sold you the clue, would you know what it was? It's nothing to do with stroking the ego of Harlan Ellison. Heck, it coulda been any popular figure in SciFi circles, and some other (arguably nuts) person would have spent the money. Think how many Star Trek afficiandos would have bid TWICE as much or more to speak to William Shatner, or Leonard Nimoy, or (prior to his passing) Gene Roddenberry. -------------------------------- The points are thus: We're not here defending anyone's ego or talent or whether a 20 minute call is *worth* $500. The focus of the rant is that you consider it hubris or ego or arrogance that Harlan would ascribe such a price to a mere phone call [*side note* would you still name it such if it Stephen Hawking? President Clinton? John Glenn? Michael Jordan? Saddam Hussein? Ralph Nader?]. And that you consider it a waste that I or anyone would spend that money on a mere phone call. -------------------------------- First - the money went to a reputable charity for people far less fortunate than myself. In my book, that's by defition not a waste, doesn't matter if you get anything for it or not. And in my case, I would have donated the money to a charity anyway. Second - if Harlan (or anyone else) offered a phone call, it was because he thought that might draw more money for the charity, it being something not available on store shelves; and because he realized that while he might not think it a big deal, someone else might. Donating the time was generous, believing people would be interested is called understanding your market. If that is arrogant, the same could be said of the Slider jackets (how arrogant a show to think their clothing is worth so much) or the Alien Voices video (their egos must be huge to think a signed video performance is worth that price). Last (and I really hope this is the last I type on this topic aside from the promised details) - the reason I wanted the call was the chance to converse privately with someone who's writing I both enjoy and find stimulating, and (through other media) whose knowledge and personality I find appealing (yes, even the loud, obnoxious parts, I have some similar tendencies at times myself), and with whom I would not likely have that opportunity in any other polite and legitimate forum. It's an experience I would not otherwise likely have. So you don't think it's much; well, certainly, you can have your opinion. Maybe there's something else which you WOULD find worth your time or effort or money, something you would find special, unique, intriguing, out of the ordinary. But it's just rude to trash someone for donating time to charity or for donating money to charity; and insensitive to judge a person's interest or desire lowly or worthless when you don't share it. Amarin, I hope this explains things, at least my position, in the least offensive way possible. Peg

PEG: I'm sorry, I called you Pat in my last message. Please accept my apology. Shane

AMIRIN: You still don't quite get it, do you? Pat can spend her money/time to do as she pleases, Harlan can help charities as he pleases, and you can do what pleases you (as long as all parties are consenting.) This is the stuff that makes America great. As for stroking Harlan, we don't need to do it for his benefit (he has justified self-confidence to spare)and I doubt that he would know about it if we did. Oh, and stick around, you might learn something...and you might teach us something, to boot. Shane

AMIRIN, you peglegged can-can dancer (I'll be silly if I want to), You are becoming downright infuriating. Of course time can be better spent. Time can ALWAYS be better spent. In the time you wasted posting here on how egomaniacal you believe HE to be, you could have been spending the aforementioned twenty minutes doing something with Habitat for Humanity. Instead, you bowed to your own ego, and raised your piping voice on this forum so that you could be sure your that thoughts would be known. And you really ticked everyone else off, causing more posts, wasting more time that could have been better spent doing something more constructive than refuting the sanctimonious admonitions of a would-be poet! My, that certainly was a long sentence. But don't pull such a holier-than-thou act on the good Peg or HE. She is allowed to do with her money as she sees fit, and it went to charity, and she received some compensation for it, which is perfectly acceptable. HE knows that time is money, and devoted his time -- his loss -- in perhaps the most profitable way possible. I think I'm done now. I'm sorry this got so long.

Stirred the cauldron, have we? Raised the ire of the troops? My. Napoleon marched more quietly. I'll whisper, all the way to the guillotine, that time is more wisely spent. Until then, I have 20min to spare... serving soup to the homeless, or nailing boards together for habitat for humanity. You guys concentrate on stroking Mr. E. I'm out of here.

PEG: Good for you (and the charity, too!) All: I'd like to recommend for your listening pleasure "The Titanic Disaster Hearings : The Official Transcripts of the 1912 Investigation." The main reason that I bring this up is Harlan's representation of three seperate witnesses in this six hour dramatization of the Senate hearings about the Titanic disaster. Other actors include Michael York, Patrick Macnee, and William Windom. I bought it from Amazon.Com for Harlan's acting, but I found the charactizations and material contained a facinating view of humans under survival conditions. As you listen you'll ask yourself, "What would I have done?" Best, Shane

PEG - Well spoken [stands at his desk and applauds robustly], though I would say even though you posted here about making a charitable donation, be it five, five hundred, or five thousand dollars, your expression of enthusiasm over getting the opportunity to speak one-on-one with someone whose creative works you enjoy still doesn't give anyone the right to throw in their two cents on what you do with your two cents. You received the opportunity to converse personally with HE, one of the greats in his field, and a hell of a nice guy to boot, and in the process helped make a charity a little better off. Although it had a dollar value associated with it, that kind of package deal is quite priceless...and anyone who searches blindly for alterior motive, or casts dispersions based on a half-assed assessment of events - well, maybe medical science will someday find a way to treat gross ignorance. Too bad some people can't understand the sheer joy of connecting with the person behind the name, even in a small way, be it through the labor of love this website is, or through a hand-full of minutes over a fiber optic cable. Or, to use a Finderism, you got to chew the fat with Harlan Ellison, and I think that's cool like Christmas...RICK - may I never tread in ignorance within the confines of your electronic house...AMIRIN - check this, if I could find the secret slot on my computer that dropped silver coin through the daisy-chain of cyberspace, I'd surely spare a quarter to your side of the moon, so in those last tickings towards the bustling autumn sundown, you could find a streetwise soul in a long trenchcoat to sell you a clue. Finder

Yes, yes, I know, I haven't spilled about the call yet... Give me a few more days, and don't expect exacting details. I gotta get this out of my system first. ----------------------- *AMARIN* Okay, I'm sure you're a real nice person, and that if I ever meet you I'll have to apologize about ranting all over you on the Webderland board. Normally I'd take the time to state things nicely but my neck hairs are up so you get the impolite version. [sincerely, I apologize in advance for trampling quite so hard while in stilleto heels, I'm generally a much nicer person]. Rick beat me to the punch, and ain't you just *sooooooo* lucky about that. Well, actually, you're not, he's far more scathing than I am, at least with vocabulary, but if I saw you I'd give you my look that makes flowers wither and dead people roll over in their graves... FIRST of all, who are you to question how much money I'm donating to what charity and whether I get SQUAT for that money? (I would say it's none of your business, but I did post all over the board about it, so I allowed it to be your business). My husband and I try to be generous no matter what the income is, and most of the time what we get is a warm fuzzy and the tenuous knowledge that if we can't (or won't) actually go physically help people, that maybe we are making some SLIGHT difference somewhere. Getting the call was gravy, but in fairness I will admit it prompted me to donate to a charity not on our regular list. SECOND - which fact Rick also beat me to the punch - there was a miscommunication, apparently Harlan had intended the starting bid to be ~$100. He felt so bad about the mixup he spent the first few mintues of the call apologizing to me and explaining what happened. When we were accidentally disconnected, he had Susan call me back immediately on another line and let me know he would call back. Which he did, and then Harlan bothered to tell me what the issue was and why it was important enough to take the call. THIRD And we talked for almost an hour. Let's get this straight - I had NO expectations for a call over 20 minutes (and his lecture rate is WAY more that what I paid). And whenever I would comment that well, I'd really stretched the time and how busy he must be, Harlan would say, no that's okay, we can talk some more. Several times. Very gracious. FOURTH And for me, it's not how many minutes I got for how many bucks. As I posted before, and mentioned to Harlan, I've got no real legitimate reason to call other than, well GOSH Mr Ellison, I just love you work and couldn't you just spare me 20 minutes of you day, I know you won't mind and that script can wait and I'm sure your publisher will understand and yadda yadda yadda. Forget it. I don't like it when telemarketers and other idiots waste my time on the phone, I'm sure Harlan doesn't either. What makes a difference is it was a private call, OUR conversation, we talked about all sorts of *stuff*, he never refused any questions or tried to steer to or away from topics. Not something I'd be likely to get at a signing or a convention. Whether it was 5 minutes or 50, the experience is what was the driver, not the tick of the clock. (and I'm not someone to chase autographs, HE is about the only pseudo - "celebrity" that I would go out of my way to get a phone call with.) ---------------------- Okay, the rants out, I feel like a deflated balloon. I promise, a report back on the phone call in a few days... Ta, Peg

Mefisto in Onyx news: The following can be found at http://www.darkhorizons.com/news.htm as of Nov. 17, 98. Mefisto in Onyx: Award-winning author Harlan Ellison apparently revealed on a recent edition of Boston radio show 'The Connection' that "Mefisto in Onyx", a story included in his latest book "Slippage", is in the works to be adapted to the big screen. A tentative cast of Mel Gibson, Samuel L. Jackson and Rene Russo were mentioned to be in this story about two telepathic men and a female district attorney who has become romantically involved with a serial killer whom she got convicted. I know this is probably old news for us HE fans. best, jody

Wow! I leave for a bit to go see Alien Sex Fiend live, and I miss a whole arguement! Guess it was someone else's turn to yell at the snerts...good job, Rick. You tell 'em! ::cheers from the sidelines:: You're probably wondering what happened to my Glass Teat review, but I've got a good part of it done. I'm combining my usual writing with an editorial on T.V that I did for our newspaper, so it should be interesting. I've had three letters to the editor on the subject of my articles (they had the words "Humor Column" in big letters over the top! I don't get it!), so I have been quite busy, what with that and an upcoming transfer next semester, not to mention a report on our own HE due soon. My parents won't react well to my goth look when I come home for break- wonder if the Ellisons would take in a houseguest for about a week...;)

okay, I was going to respond to Amirin, but Rick's response was a whole helluva lot more effective (not to mention educated) than any slams against the guy's mother/life/sexual proclivities that I may have come up in defense of Ellison. The fact of the matter is, if you have a valid argument, then make it. Don't disguise it in flowery language or try to impress people who have proven their (infinitely better) taste in prose by just being here. I have a theory about people who thrive off of controversy for controversy's sake... I just won't share it here. ---Peter

Addendum to previous rant (aside from correcting the math error, I meant to say $25 a minute, not 20): on confirming this with Harlan - The Dominion asked Harlan for a book to auction, and HE said they would only get $20 or so for that and instead offered a 20-minute phone call for which he suggested a bid of $100.00. When he heard the call had been offered at $500.00 and two people had bid that amount, he was so embarassed that he spoke to the first person for over an hour...and when he lost the second person due to call waiting after a 40 minute conversation he called her back and spoke for an additional 15 minutes. Those with further unsupported and kneejerk comments are invited to check out my rant of 07/09/98 on this very website. Boy, ya raise a grand for charity and get shat upon, ya offer some advice about an Ellison story and get a backhanded thank you...is it just me, or can we not win this month?

AMIRIN - I cannot for the life of me figure out why we are even having this discussion. Do you even know WHO set the figure for Harlan's 20 minute talk? Are you aware that not one but TWO people thought it was a fair price, and that informed of this rather than force a bidding war Harlan was gracious enough to accept both? For the record, HE received NOTHING for his time. That's ZERO dollars per minute, not 20. And even if he HAD been paid, which I remind you he was NOT, receiving the equivalent of $1500 for an hour is hardly an astronomical fee when compared to personal appearance fees charged by Harlan and other people in similar circles. You also are dealing with a man who, if the legions of fans I have received personal testimony from are any indication, has been generous with his time and attention to a fault and is perhaps one of the most accessible of all the authors of or near his calibre and reputation. Your argument, in short, is pure dingo's kidneys. ........ Furthermore, for you to accuse Harlan of hubris or ego based on his raising a thousand dollars for a worthy charity in this way is quite simply baseless and ridiculous - and is an attack that reveals far more about the character of the one making the attack than it does about the man in question. And since we are making free with the personal analyses this week, let me add my opinion of what that attack reveals about you (regardless of how seriously or lightly you meant it) - that you are a jealous and petty man who finds more value in impugning the good works of others than in performing those of his own, and who finds pleasure and humor in belittling others to no good purpose. So enjoy pissing in the wind...most of us don't like the taste.

Needless to say, I won't be going to the trouble of finding a copy of the FILM A Boy and His Dog...I am quite satisfied with Ellison's own story.

There is an interesting essay on the MOVIE-version of "A Boy and His Dog," entitled "A BOY AND HIS DOG: The Final Solution" by Joanna Russ. Here is a bit of the introduction to the essay in the collection of Russ's essays that it appears in: "What to do with majority/oppressor culture is a continuing problem for minority/oppressed groups. Most of us settle for crumbs--the allusion, the implication, the single line, the "good scene," teh dominant-group character whom one can "identify with" without having to face the nastiness of the minority ones (who are two-dimensional or defamatory). The following review was published in 1975. After seeing the film discussed below, I found that crumbs were not enough and that I would no longer settle for the kind of cultural product that blithely blamed me for the ills of its far more loathsome male characters. I still think that Harlan Ellison's story of the same name is a very different matter from the film (for which Ellison wasn't responsible); in the story everyone is loathsome, and Quilla June has a solid beef against her ghastly father, i.e. when escaping "Topeka," she stuns him by confronting him with what she knows to be his own secret desires: incest with her. (That is, after all, a fairly good reason to be angry at your father.) Luckily, I am an artist and can make good the extraordinary deficit of any representation in popular culture of people like me and feelings like mine by writing them into stories; people who feel the lack but aren't artists must have a harder time of it. ... It all starts when you say no." -------------from "A BOY AND HIS DOG: The Final Solution," by Joanna Russ, in Joanna Russ's TO WRITE LIKE A WOMAN ESSAYS IN FEMINISM AND SCIENCE FICTION.

Well, metaphorically speaking, it's chill on this side of the moon. Hey, I'm not against charity. I support Amnesty Int. and other groups, and I serve in a soup kitchen twice a month. The point... step back, it's not the syrup from a needle... is that Mr. E. "offers" the charity of his persona to someone for $500. That strikes like the sudden, heavy chime of ego. 20 mins at $25 smacks of it. I'll spend 20 mins in a soup kitchen, please. Doesn't mean I'm ranting on Harlan, or pecking at the web site. Just a bit of disillusionment... and, forbid, a bit of disagreement with the man.

Hiya kids. Doc - Didn't mean to slight you. Next time you're in the NY / NJ area, lemme know, and I'll take you out for a slice of Benny's. Mitch

Well, gee - I'm not really sure I belong here anymore.. ;-) .. On that "Who's a writer" thing - I hafta to go with anyone who writes.. I mean, for an awful lot of the people who have ever sucked air, being able to read and write was something the 'elite' did.. even grocery lists.. Hey, to someone who can't read or write, anything written on paper looks the same.. Intent, and quality are another subject entirely - and using them as the criteria for determining "who is a writer" assumes everyone is literate - and that aint so. ***PEGGY*** oooo - you get (got) to talk to HE! Totally cool!! I want to hear the _whole_ thing.. ***ALL*** It's so good to see old friends posting, that I had to De-Lurk. Been busy with real life stuff.. sigh - such an interference to cyberstuff.. I have warm and fond places in the heart for the Webdergang.. And not a lot to add to the "on-topic" stuff, as usual.. There was a ROBOT in TicTockMan??? Try High- Fly Straight - Drive Safe

Otto: perhaps your are right (I doubt it, though Amirin might use this opening to claim so). But if, indeed, Amirin (who seems to aspire to being a pill) was posting with tongue-in-cheek, one would hope he/she could find the time to put his/her brain-in- gear before mouthing off about ego, etc. After all, the money is for charity... DTS (out here, and reined in)

Whoa, there, DTS. I get the feeling that AMIRIN is pecking away with tongue firmly in cheek. At least, I hope so . . .

ASPIRIN...er, um AMIRIN. If no one has answered your sly, insightful posts it's probably because we're all in awe of your clever and oh so poetic writing -- and the way you see through all of us (given that you are a sensitive artiste, and privy to workings of the human condition that only you can understand). Perhaps, someday, we will be worthy of a reply to you. (TO ALL THE REST OF YOU GUYS: is it just me, or do you smell the stench of wanna-be-writerandself-important-pimple-popping-nobody-without a clue hovering around Webderland of late?) -- Cheers, DTS.

So what happened with that 20min phone call, ahem, 1-900 Dial Harlan number? At $25 a minute, you could surely stroke one's ego enough. Hey, I'm a fan, love the writing, met the man... but, again, as the clock ticks ever so quickly toward the burning off of the sun, and the last whispering gasp that is the smoke of this dying world, we are subject again to the liquid dreams of one's terribly huge ego dripping against the backdrop of such sudden madness. Oh, I'm sorry. That would be, um, dripping through your telephone wires. Sic.

Chris: before you start deconstructing, have you READ the story by Ellison, or just watched the film version? (if you haven't yet, you should read the story first; especially before looking for meaning, symbolism, subtext; and especially if you are doing it for school; you can find "A Boy and His DOg" in EDGEWORKS 4, THE ESSENTIAL ELLISON, and a few SF anthologies still in print). ---- DTS

Well I am happy to say that I have just recently come into contact with "A boy and his Dog" and well WOW. I really enjoyed the movie tremendously. But I did find some parts of it confusing. Like the michael robot in the down under....Why did these people have him and why didn't they just make him force Don Johnson's character cooperate in their sperm extraction? In other words what part of the big picture am I missing? Are there any ideas out there on what exactly "downunder" was? i got my own ideas but would greatly appreciate any and all input

Hey Doc, if I come to SF I promise to at least warn you. Of course, I'm VERRRRRY picky about my coffee.... *laf*

CRAIG> Certainty takes all the fun outta things! All I have about the story are suspicions. MITCH> You came to SF, and didn't call on me for a visit?!? I feel slighted -- everyone got to go be chummy at DragonCon, and everything, and I can't even get a visit, a cup coffee and a schtick cake with a guy who shares an Ellisonian interest! O Tempura! O Morays! PETE> I too have to go with Clive (and I do *not* take issue with your literary tastes). I think we have to consider intent, though. Making out a grocery list does not necessarily make me a writer. Selling a piece of my work, likewise, doesn't necessarily make me a *good* writer, either. It sorta comes down to what they tell you in AA -- nobody can decide for you whether you're an alcoholic. Or a writer (they are not always separate entities, either, I must confess). Sweat out every drop of whatever you want to say. Do it with care. Do it with passion. Do it with gusto. But I wouldn't recommend anybody quit their day job. As *I* see it, and I always know better, ask anyone, the days when you can build a writing career out of a pile of paper and a 2nd hand machine are looooooooong gone. The pulps dolled out splendid opportunities; but they also made it possible for every perveyor of dreck who had a desire for reasonably quick cash and half a way with words to soil and saturate the market. As for talent, or whether anyone else likes your work,... well, there are books that, frankly, I wouldn't wipe my ass with (ANNO DRACULA leaps to mind, like a gazelle on ecstacy). Other people eat 'em up. When I have to sit by and watch books I despise succeed when they should vanish from light, all I can do is try to do the job better myself. Which answered nothing for anyone, I'm sure. Y'all don't be strangers 'round the ol' e-corral, y'hear? Muchas Smooches, Doc

Thanks to everyone for their comments about ending of 'Repent Harlequin". I wish I was as sure about it as you all seem to be. Yours, Craig

Rick- I think you've isolated what disturbed me about Paul's rant. Although I have to admit that when I read it I was in the midst of studying for an exam so I was feeling intellectually vulnerable. It is arrogant to judge whether or not someone else is a writer. It's kind of like going up to a man who is proud to call himself a garbage man and saying "no, no, no you're a sanitation director" or some such nonsense. ---Peter

Sorry, but I'm going to have to weigh in with Clive on this one. If you write, you're a writer. Everything else is just semantics and judgement. That may sound funny coming from someone who once wrote an essay entitled "Why I am not a Writer", but it's like the apocryphal story of Winston Churchill asking a haughty society lady if she'd sleep with him for a million pounds. She replied yes. Then he asked her if she'd sleep with him for ten pounds. She replied "What sort of lady do you think I am, Mr. Churchill?" Churchill said "We've already established that - now we're just talking about the price." .... In the first place, I think it's vain and hubritic for us to decide if someone else is a writer. In the second place, we should really be arguing about their expertise and talent as a writer, and the quality of their work...

For as long as I can remember, I have told stories. When I learned to write, I was forever writing something down. In college, they actually gave me money for a poem I wrote (The poem was dedicated to Sylvia Plath and was little more than a suicide note. I laughed when the prof told me, he said I had a fine appreciation for Plath!). Somewhere during the course of the last 15 years of working 3 and 4 jobs at a time, I stopped writing things down so much. The stories didn't go away though, I still need to tell them, so they went oral. Our local paper (pioneerplanet.com)does something that they call the bulletin board. People call or fax or email things and Dan Kelly, the editor, chooses stuff to put in the paper. They've even published books using the material that BBer's submit. Does this make me a writer? I doubt it. (Although it has been good for the precision of my stories - making stories in my head requires that I use the exact right word - but bad for length.) I have written things that I cannot edit after the initial writing period because they are so painful. The few people who have seen them think that I could/should get them published, but I don't think that I could stand that. I had a huge fight that nearly ended a very old friendship because that friend had shown one of those pieces to the editor of a small regional publication. Gutless no doubt. I have never wanted to be famous. Am I a writer if I continue to write from the gut with open veins, but choose to limit my audience? Is being published or seeking to be published the criteria for defining a writer? I generally refer to myself as a storyteller, because that seems a more accurate definition of what I do. The need to write/storytell remains in me. I love the sculpting of them - finding the precise word to fit the flow of the story and the meaning of the story. I have a new job that pays me enough to finally give up being multiply employed, and I am now trying to go back to writing on paper, but it is very hard. Am I a professional writer? Absolutely not. Am I a writer? I guess that that depends on the definition. In my head, there are the stories and the words to tell them and I strive to do that the best that I can. Will I ever make more than the 75$ prize money I got for my suicide note? Couldn't say. So, my vote is, write what's in you. Fame seems pretty pointless anyway. If what's in you requires a bigger audience, than seek it out. If you need a label for what you do, pick something that seems sufficient and ignore the rest. It's all subjective anyway. Well, thanks for the opportunity to ramble on!

I think Maggie hit on a very good point. Does not getting published exclude one from the exclusive club of writerdom? Does getting published make one a writer? In my ever so humble opinion (okay, I'm about as humble as a gold bracelet lined with sapphires) being published or not in no way contributes to a person's status as a writer. I have read books that should never have been printed, and I've read computer copy roughs of works that deserve to grace the pages of any major market magazine. But the problem as I see it is that by not publishing great works of writing, or even just good ones, does the lack of extrinsic confirmation keep a person from achieving the ever so coveted status of writer? I don't think so. I think what I'm trying to get at is the fact that it is unfair to point to people like Ellison and say "They are writers because they have proven themselves over and over again," when there are people out there (probably reading this post) who have also proven themselves. It's just that they haven't proven anything to anyone but themselves and maybe a few close friends and relatives. I'm going to offer a very simple definition of a writer. A writer is some who absolutely must write. It doesn't matter if the stuff is any good. A writer simply must write. Nicole hit on a very good point when she said that the grammar and technical aspects of writing can be learned. But the desire to write is an inate drive that is as necessary to a writer's existence as food, sex, or water. Do I have dreams of fame and money? Yeah, sure, who doesn't? Could I work as an engineer and still be a writer? Yeah, because I know that when I write, I do it because I have stories that want to be released from the confines of my subconscious. Could I make my living as a professional writer? Maybe. That all depends on whether or not people actually want to read what I've written. I am going to make a stand right now and say that I consider myself a writer. Not because I'm good at it. good comes with time. But because I need to write. I need to see words flowing across a page because I put them there. I need to release the voices in my head who tell me what to say next. I need to pour my imagination onto an 8"1/2 X 11" canvas and see what pictures emerge. Do I need to be published? No. It'd be nice. I love to share my work. But it's not neccesary. Do I need fame or money from writing? No. It'd be nice. But completely unneccesary. Do I need to write? Yes. And in fact, I've got to go do that right now. This little bit of rant was my warm up period. I've now got to cut that vein. ---Peter

For as long as I can remember, I have told stories. When I learned to write, I was forever writing something down. In college, they actually gave me money for a poem I wrote (The poem was dedicated to Sylvia Plath and was little more than a suicide note. I laughed when the prof told me, he said I had a fine appreciation for Plath!). Somewhere during the course of the last 15 years of working 3 and 4 jobs at a time, I stopped writing things down so much. The stories didn't go away though, I still need to tell them, so they went oral. Our local paper (pioneerplanet.com)does something that they call the bulletin board. People call or fax or email things and Dan Kelly, the editor, chooses stuff to put in the paper. They've even published books using the material that BBer's submit. Does this make me a writer? I doubt it. (Although it has been good for the precision of my stories - making stories in my head requires that I use the exact right word - but bad for length.) I have written things that I cannot edit after the initial writing period because they are so painful. The few people who have seen them think that I could/should get them published, but I don't think that I could stand that. I had a huge fight that nearly ended a very old friendship because that friend had shown one of those pieces to the editor of a small regional publication. Gutless no doubt. I have never wanted to be famous. Am I a writer if I continue to write from the gut with open veins, but choose to limit my audience? Is being published or seeking to be published the criteria for defining a writer? I generally refer to myself as a storyteller, because that seems a more accurate definition of what I do. The need to write/storytell remains in me. I love the sculpting of them - finding the precise word to fit the flow of the story and the meaning of the story. I have a new job that pays me enough to finally give up being multiply employed, and I am now trying to go back to writing on paper, but it is very hard. Am I a professional writer? Absolutely not. Am I a writer? I guess that that depends on the definition. In my head, there are the stories and the words to tell them and I strive to do that the best that I can. Will I ever make more than the 75$ prize money I got for my suicide note? Couldn't say. So, my vote is, write what's in you. Fame seems pretty pointless anyway. If what's in you requires a bigger audience, than seek it out. If you need a label for what you do, pick something that seems sufficient and ignore the rest. It's all subjective anyway. Well, thanks for the opportunity to ramble on!

Peter - I like the question, but don't know if there's an easy answer, or even an answer. I'm on the editorial board for the city bar (lawyer, not drinker) and write monthly feature articles. Yet, I don't consider myself a "writer". Are "writers" only persons who write fiction? non-fiction? Are newspaper reporters writers? According to Mr. Barker, the answer would be anyone who writes anything is a writer. Yet, my monthly columns aren't even in the same league with Borges, Ellison, Sturgeon, or even Jackie Collins (he he). Those persons are W-R-I-T-E-R-S, to the upteenth degree. Me, I'll just keep punching out my monthly columns. Charlie

Hiya kids. Just got back from San Francisco, and it was booty-ful! Doc - Check out the Hokusai exhibit at the Asian Art museum, if you haven't already. Terrific stuff. All - Time for me to chime in on "Tick Tock Man". I thought he WAS a robot. I mean, it made sense. Only a machine could be as punctual as the TTM needed to be to do the job. A society with that tech level could have created him. He wore that mask all the time. And the "mrmee mrmee"s seemed to confirm it. And could I sound geekier? Mitch

Wow! Big question there. I struggle with that one myself sometimes, and since you asked for all of our opinions, my own humble one included, I would have to say that yes, it is writing that makes one, in the broadest definition, a writer, but there is so much more that makes people like Harlan Ellison deserve the label "writer". To be a true writer in every sense of the word, you must grow with every word you put down on the page. You have to let your own blood drip all over everything you write, and you must do this fearlessly, even when it stings. It should be as necessary to your continued existence as breathing and eating. Someone said "Writing is easy. All you do is sit down at a typewriter and open a vein." That's about all you have to do. Grammer, it's essential, and I do mean *essential*- nothing is worse or more distracting than a wonderful story written with no thought for that sort of thing whatsoever. But that you can learn out of a book. True writing isn't that way. What I say basically is tell the truth, be complete, feel, get into your work, obsess yourself with the page, and only then, when it becomes your life, can you truly call yourself a writer.

Hi everybody. I'm just letting loose a little steam so I don't go and overload my left brain in a futile attempt to cram four weeks of physics (circuits) into one night. Okay so the task isn't that impossible, but a break is definitely in order. I just read the most recent guest rant and as (apparently) one of the self-delusional writer wannabes I have to propose a question. What draws the line between an actual writer and a perpetual neophyte with all the grammatical skill of an irish wolf-hound chewing up a pencil? I've heard two views on this. One is the Clive Barker view (I won't be bated into an argument on my tastes) that once someone begins to write, that person is a writer. Then there is the view that is taken by the rant and several others I know (and in my humble, yet flexible opinion, it borders on elitist) that a writer is someone who is in essence addicted to the act of creating meaningful grammatical constructs. Me, I'm trying my damndest right now to study rather than sit and pound out two stories and an essay that have been beating on the inside of my head like Athena. People don't necessarily like what I write (and I'm usually the first person to admit if something is crap) So what does that make me? Why does it seem that a simple question has turned to a quest for vindication from my peers. Why am I asking questions when I should be off studying Kirchhoff's rule, Ohm's law and multiloop RC circuits. Well, if anybody can decipher what I've written, your better than I. Okay, back to studying. ---Peter

Peg: Actually it has already been performed at the New England Conservatory in Boston. I'm presenting it to my class PURELY for educational purposes...I'm bringing along my copy of Mindfields to the class to give them a look at the other works in the book as well. Troy hasn't done ALL the pieces in MINDFIELDS, though last week he told me he's starting on 2 more works from the book. There is some talk of adaptation for television in the future, but nothing definite. I am merely borrowing a tape of the performance with slide from Troy for my presentation. Maybe in the future we can all enjoy watching a performance of these works (which are actually meant to be a ballet in the final version) on cable. Who knows... ----- Shaz

*SHAZ* - wow, thanks for the info on the work Troy is doing, it sounds fab! I was unaware but will be sure to ask HE about it with my phone call *sly grin*. Do you know if the plans are to release that on interactive CD or video or other??? Well, anyway, glad to get the heads up on it, but completely jealous that your class gets the preview. *laf* - Peg

Doc: My condolences also on your loss--you would have gotten them sooner, but I hadn't read the backlog of Bulletin Board messages when I posted my inquiry. I think magic realism might need to be mentioned in my presentation. What I'm doing, is presenting a piece from MINDFIELDS ("Susan") as an example of his work. And the way I'm presenting it is a bit different... I don't know if any of you have read postings about this in the past, but Troy Wayne (currently completing his masters in music at the New England Conservatory in Boston) has composed a series of modern classical pieces to go with the works from MINDFIELDS...with Ellison's and Ellison's agent's full cooperation, support, and enthousiasm. Since he's my best friend, it was no problem to get him to send me a tape of a recorded performance of "Susan" (i.e. the music with narration of the story) and a slide of the Jacek Yerka painting that goes with it. I will be showing the painting in class while playing the recorded narration with music. I thought this would work better to stir interest in Ellison's work than a brief synopsis of one of his too-long-to-read-aloud-in-class short stories. This goes in conjunction with a brief biographical and genre/bibliographical introduction to HE. That's why I wanted the categories. I'm not trying to pigeon-hole him...just trying to make him more accessible to a new audience. Thanks DTS for your definition of magic realism--beats the hell out of the definition I found in my reference books at home. And thanks Peg for the well-intentioned warning and advice. Cheers, Shaz

FYI: the comment below by Doc (about Hemingway not dying of old age)reminded me: In February (along about the 10th or so) Dan Simmons' new novel THE CROOK FACTORY will be out. I finshed an advance copy a few weeks ago. It's dynamite. Early in 1942, Rogue FBI agent Joe Lucas is given an assignment by Director Hoover to head to Cuba (under the guise of a State Department liason) and investigate and amateur spy network -- specifically, to dig up everything he can on the network (dubbed the "Crook Factory" by its leader), what its real mission is, and what it's leader and orginator, Ernest Hemingway, is really up to. Suffice to say that the characterization, action and plot are never less than excellent. A real Five Star read. What's more, Simmons' notes after the book, advising that 95 percent of the events in the novel are true, confirm what us "paranoid" folks always knew -- the FBI WAS folllowing Hemingway, right up until he blew his brains out (just after the second shock treatment, hastened after friends and family decided he was really losing it, cause he kept "seeing" FBI agents in restuarants and rear-view mirrors). Anyway, those who've read Simmons (an Ellison "discovery") know he's never less than very good. So mark your calendars for Feb. '99, cause this one's a corker. ---- DTS.

Now that I mention it, has anyone read the Riddeller's rant? I speak of our own beloved Paul T. -- great stuff. Go. Read it. Now. Honest-Injun writers *never* wonder why Hemmingway *didn't* die of old age.

First, a hardy round of Thank You, Mask-Mans to all who offered sympathies and condolensces. It helped much in getting me through a rough time. RE: "Repent Harlequin," forgive me if I decline to explain anything to anyone, or even offer an opinion -- this is definitely one of those times when you have to decide for yourself what it means. SHAZ> Great to see you posting again! You're right, pidgeon-holing Harlan is too tricky; unfortunately, all I can say is, Ellison planned it that way. Yes, he done it on purpose, and all I can give you by way of recommendation is to pore over the stories in LOVE AIN'T NOTHING BUT SEX MISSPELLED. Maybe that will help you get a better handle on things. In it, HE tosses the restrictions of genre aside like they were his college roommate's month-old sweat socks. If they insist that you must label the man and/or his work, tell them that he's a writer, period. He writes fiction, reviews, essays, the whole schmear. If you have to pin anything on him, perhaps "fantasist" would cover the situation sufficiently. Mentioning that he had a story chosen for BEST AMERICAN SHORT STORIES 1993 (over which accomplishment, Harlan is *still* kvelling) might get them to sit down and hush. Lots of luck. I'm accused of reviewing LOVE AIN'T NOTHING, and have enjoyed a particularly difficult time of it, because *I* can't quite get the necessary handle on it myself -- it's all pretty straight-forward stuff, sharp, painful and gorgeous. PETE> San Jose, eh? Next time you're in SF, let me know and maybe we can hit Just Desserts for coffee. Ciao, Doc

SHAZ, here ie, once again, my (measly) two-cents worth: science fiction (as determined by those who write it, cause I'm paraphrasing from past essays and discussions) is fiction in which an element of the story hinges on something scientifically possible or probable (even though, the judges of such often fudge and let stories using time travel or faster-than-light travel fall under that umbrella). (That's something I figure you're already familiar with, but what the hell, I put it here for the benefit of others). That, of course, is why the majority Ellison's stories don't fall into the SF category. And since they don't always fall into horror (or mystery, or dark fantasy), people always have a hard time pigeon-holing him (which is good). If you have to present him in the clothes of category, I'd say "magic realism" is the best phrase (Ellison has even said he is "one" with the South American writers (Borges, Llosa, Marquez) who claim this label. So here's a definition of magic realism: mainstream, or realistic, writing with a touch of the fantastic -- that is, an element of surrealism which throws off the entire view of the story (and often the characters in it), in such a way that the standard view of reality (our own, and that of the fictional characters) is called into question and held up to the light for closer examination. (in fact, you might even call Ellison a Surrealist, the fictional equivalent of Dali or Jacek Yerka -- for the most part...course, that would exclude stories like "Soft Monkey," "Niether Your Jenny, nor Mine," etc, etc.; this categorization stuff does seem to hinder one, don't it?). Hope that helps. Out here, DTS.

*Shaz* - my apologies if I came off too hard, seems I've stuck my foot in up to the knee! I agree, there is a lot of Ellisonia which is definitely science fiction. And trying to explain it all to the class as you describe sounds like a challenge. It could be a chance to let the uninitiated see HE as more than a "SciFi" writer. I suppose that depends on which of HE's works you are going to focus on for your presentation. ***********----------------************ I'm with you on magic realism - got no idea how to describe it since I haven't read Borge or any others mentioned as magic realists. On speculative fiction, though, I think you might define it by example. We've mentioned several examples of both the science fiction and the speculative fiction. Maybe you could contrast the story and setting elements from a couple of examples. Or compare a couple of HE fiction works to some hard science fiction - the Robinson MARS series, Haldeman's the Forever War, Niven's Ringworlds - there are lots of great contrasts. ***********----------------************ In any case, I'm sure you'll do a great job because you really enjoy the subject matter. Good Luck, The Pegster

Peg: I am VERY aware of Harlan's intolerance of the sci-fi label, which incidentally (according to HE) is something completely different from science fiction. Some of Harlan's work, though, is clearly science fiction: "I Have No Mouth and I Must Scream," "I'm Looking for Kadak" (which I would classify as somewhere between science fiction and fantasy). I'm aware that he writes many types of fiction and non-fiction--one need only to look at the Ellison section of my bookshelves to know that. But my problem is when presenting an unknown entity (Ellison) to a American Literature class full of non-native speakers who are attending a Dutch university whose English department is LARGELY British-literature dominated, I'm going to have to use SOME categories when describing what Ellison writes. And when I say the words "speculative fiction" and see the sea of blank stares in response, I'm going to be pressed for an explanation of what "speculative fiction" is. Also, I've read that some of Ellison's work steps over into the realm of "magic realism," which as I've said before, I'm VERY IFFY on the definition of. -Shaz

Shaz-I feel for your plight. I was sitting in my creative writing class when the professor asked each of us who our literary influences were. I thought maybe I'd say something like Swift or Voltaire, you know, earn some points with the prof. Well, while they have had an influence on my writing, they are not the most prominent influences. So I said Harlan Ellison. The first words out of my professor's mouth were "He writes that science fiction stuff, doesn't he?" My jaw dropped and I knew it was going to be a long semester. . . to the point. I think the most innocuous label you could give him would be "fantasist" but whenever I'm asked what he writes, I just tell people "good literature" Of course, I'm the guy who wrote four introductions to his review before deciding to stick with the first, so what do I know? excuse the messiness of thought here, I'm on cold medication. ---Peter "The Silly One" (sometimes)

---***--- soapbox alert ---***--- *SHAZ* - prewarning here, this isn't meant to be abuse. It just sounds that way. *laf* Harlan Ellison absolutely loathes, despises, use an adjective of your choice here, being classified as Sci Fi. He may be tolerant of speculative fiction. IIRC, he doesn't like his writing *categorized* because of it's breadth. Even to use the label speculative fiction is limited since HE has also written westerns, mysteries, screenplays, teleplays, movies, scripts, and probably a thousand things I don't know about. And that doesn't begin to touch on all of his non-fiction commentaries, columns, essays, etc. ----------------_____________------------------- That being said.... I think, for that fiction work which displays a not-quite-reality-as-we-know-it twist, speculative fiction is about as good as it gets. Look at Mefisto in Onyx. There's no "science fiction" about it. There's only one "unreal" or "supernatural" element in the story - the ability to read minds or to "jump" into someone elses mind. Everything else in the story is much more like a modern day 20th century mystery. It deals with very human issues and interactions and reality as it is and as we believe it. Or "Jeffty is Five". Again, only one odd element - a small boy who doesn't age. The POV is a person who is friends with this boy but does grow up. He relates the strangeness of this situation, the fear and alienation the parents come to fear, and other human reactions to this bizarre fact. So, how would you classify those? ----------------_____________------------------- Take a look at the bibliographies available. Rick has links to several of them on the Webderland site. Tell your class not about HE as a SciFi writer, but HE as a writer of extreme breadth and range of work. It'd do more good. Good luck, I hope your efforts to educate your classmates and instructor are successful! Peg

Hi all! I need some learned advice. I'm planning on doing a presentation for my American Literature class on Ellison. Honestly--my professor didn't know who he is! (Only a couple of students know who he is ONLY BECAUSE of his connection to Babylon 5 and "City on the Edge of Forever." My problem is, I don't know exactly how to categorize his fiction. I've heard it called science fiction, speculative fiction, and even magic realism. I'm not sure how speculative fiction differs from science fiction and am even more iffy on an accurate definition of magic realism. Could someone please help? Thanks, Shaz

Since it's become a much debated topic of late (starting after that post from the guy who didn't "get" the end of "'Repent Harlequin!..." [and though it's probably not PC or even polite, I can't believe a person could fail to understand THAT Ellison story given its explicitness]),I decided to put my two-cents worth in (I know -- not worth much, but I never claimed it was). So. Regarding the sound that The Tick Tock Man makes at the end of the story. When I was a kid, back in the sixties, I remember my Dad had this self-winding watch (with a few other gizmos that were considered cutting edge) and every once in a while (when it was rewinding?) it made a weird, high-pitched sound, kinda like mmrmee, mrrmee, mrrmee. One day it finally wound too tight, weirded out and stayed in that mode, going mrrmee, mrrmee, mrrmee until my dad stomped on it or something. Anyway, I've always associated the sound at the end of the story with a wristwatch that was wound too tight, and therefore would never run correctly again. End of story. -- Out here, DTS.

You know, Rick, you only post that type of info on just about a *gazillion* spots on this site, and yet STILL people just don't GET IT! You win the perserverance award, buddy. ---------------_________--------------- back to other stuff. Thanks for the conversation suggestions so far. I'm working on a few of my own, and the date is being negotiated. ---------------_________--------------- As far as RHSTTTM, I agree with Rick's assessment. When I read the story, I just took the "mmree" as a sign that the TTM had gone off his rocker, probably related to re-programming Everett Marm. I *NEVER* thought he was a robot, or anything else. But then I miss the deeper meaning of stories on a frequent basis... ---------------_________--------------- Ta for now, Peg

FYI.... I am going to let that post remain (even though it is a bit of a conversation killer, eh wot?). But Harlan Ellison has NOT been "e-mailed", Harlan Ellison doesn't have e-mail. If you want to communicate something this important and complicated to the man, for Chrissake use a stamp, okay?

Dear people: This is a call for real help. The following email message to Harlan Ellison, a well known author and activist on civil rights and killer of censorship, was written in response to a tragedy several thousand of us here in Augusta, Kansas, share. This is only the beginning. This call will be repeated until answered and enacted. Red tape notwithstanding, etc. Dear friends: This is a call for help. I am speaking on behalf of the flood victims in Augusta, Kansas, including myself, who have been robbed of their entire lives by the gross incompetence, stupidity, and apathy of the authority figures here. We, the flood victims, are in the middle of a disaster, homelessness on the verge of winter, and the media, city fathers, police, and national guard are in the midst of denial. We, the people, will not be denied. The problem we have with this flood is simply that we were not warned. The "people in charge" knew that the dike around the city had no hope of holding the floodwaters of the Walnut and whitewater rivers, yet they informed no one. Hundreds of homes were completely destroyed, complete with all posessions, half the business section will fold. Simply because we were not warned, even when the water was washing us away. I was in the IGA less than 30 minutes before the flood hit, and it was business as usual. I simply could not believe what I was seeing. I'd been working like a maniac all day trying to help friends move as much as they could, because I pay attention to national weather service, not the home town boys. I was in a friends' house putting books, family albums and pictures, art, and everything else I could up as high as I could while the street outside was a raging river, and the water was coming in fast. In a panic, I escaped the flood, only to find spectators and police watching the river rise in downtown Augusta. The police were maintaining barricades on flooded roads (at 7th. and Walnut were five police cars, directing traffic away from the flood converging on 7th. and Walnut), and a "command post," while they could hear people, frantic to save their most valued posessions, screaming for help. The police call themselves "the department of safety." Safety, in this case means police vehicles blocking the way to flooded streets. They believe they are immune to responsibility. I am going to prove that they are not. They are not safe from me, or anyone else here who lost so much. The national guard had trucks and men here, safely on high ground, helping to direct traffic. There is talk of FEMA and Red Cross relief, but no one believes it's real, especially since all we hear are rumors of red tape. No one believes in the system here anymore, not after this. I intend to use this as a means of destroying this authoritarian system that galliantly postures their authority while people are hurt. They don't care now, but we will make them care. This is the time to strike at the heart of the media, police, city management, and belief systems that let us drown. I am making the best use I can of it. Never in my life have I lived in such a hostile enviornment. At a meeting of citizens this morning, November 3, 1998, the police were called in to "intercede" while hundreds of completely out of control tempers raged around the city manager and his bedfellows. A friend told me that the first thing the business owners, who had just lost 100% of thier busineses, said was, "there aint no freebies." This means that the people who let us drown will be held responsible. I absolutely agree with this. I have determined not to rest until everyone who holds a position of authority, from the uncaring local police, all the way up to re-elected (today) governer Bill Graves, loses their jobs over this; after they sell their homes and posessions (if possible, in a class action suit), and donate the proceeds to the victims of this flood. But nothing they can do now will be enough. It's too late. It's not to late for us to screw them right back though. This may seem unrealistic. However, I've read Ellison's An Edge In My Voice and there was a time when more than 2000 people picketed NBC for the cancellation of the Lew Grant show. I know that things can be done, if we can get organized, get the goddam media to tell the truth, and fill out the right paperwork. We need lawyers who will fight the system that let us drown. We need global exposure on an unprecedented scale. Augusta may be nowhere, in the greater scheme of things, and I may be nobody, now that my future is obliterated; but I see it this way, I'm the child who can say, 'the emperor has no clothes.' I just need the right people to say it to, in the right forums. I will. I need to learn how to write up an iron-clad petition, which I will circulate among my friends and neighbors, as they shovel the muck of their memories and dreams out the front doors of their ruined homes, that will be sent to whomever it can be sent to. I am not limited in scope, and I have nothing else to do after I help clean up the mess. If you have any suggestions for this they would be greatly appreciated. I want global exposure on the internet, and part of that exposure is this letter. This is the first effort of my Augusta, Kansas, flood 98 Starr Report. I will not stop with this, until the system here is fundamentally changed, and the people who run that system are completly replaced with people who can think for themselves, make hard decisions and do their jobs right: I've spent the last fifteen years learning how to do just that. This is my day in the world Internet court, and I want to see, now, who really cares. sincerely, Lloyd Wallace Goode 32 Bluff St Augusta, KS 67010

$25 a minute... the clock ticks, ever so quickly, toward the final burning off of the sun, the last gasp of this world, the liquid dreams of one's ego dripping through the sky and the backdrop of THIS madness...

$25 a minute... the clock ticks, ever so quickly, toward the final burning off of the sun, the last gasp of this world, the liquid dreams of one's ego dripping through the sky and the backdrop of THIS madness...

Peggy, congrats and have a great conversation with Harlan. If you're interested in subject suggestions, you might ask how goes the fight to restrict the expansion of the school on the watershed land behind Harlan's house, when will he next appear on the Late, Late Show with Tom Snyder, or what he's working on currently. Best, Shane

Peggy- Congratulations on your winning bid. I'm sure your 20 minute conversation will well be worth the $500 as it'll be a memory that sticks with you until you die. That's worth $500, right? ALL- the sf channel is broadcasting Trouble w/Tribbles tonight @ 7:30. I betcha David Gerrold will be giving bridging commentary and I also lay wager he'll mention that other popular episode which beat him out of the Hugo. (and it ain't the Sturgeon episode) Oh which episode could it be... Charlie

So, yes, I did it, I donated $500 for a 20 minute phone call. I *CAN'T* believe I did it. Just wait till my husband finds out!!! Well, at least the money was donated to a good charity. Why else have money if you can't do some good and have some fun? [Okay, webderfolks, break in here anytime and help me rationalize this impulsive manuever] .......-------....... *NICOLE* you're right, just using the phone book and calling him out of the blue would have been cheaper (heck, probably could flown down and knocked on his door!]. But, this way the money went to charity. More importantly, it would have been impolite of me and an imposition on an incredibly busy guy. Let's face it, it's not like I have a reason to call him. I'm not a writer, I don't work with him, I'm not asking for advice or discussing a review; I'm just some woman whose read his books, etc. and wants to meet him. Unca Harlan's made it no secret he doesn't appreciate intrusions taking up his time. Somehow, I don't think he would have enjoyed some total stranger calling him up to chat, doesn't matter what kind of person I am. .......-------....... *RICK* Thanks for the encouragement. I know I've heard far more accounts of how nice HE is (at least on here). I'll just try to make sure my own behavior doesn't provoke any unpleasant reactions... As for the money, well... My husband and I try to be generous with what we have; and we've been blessed a lot in recent years. However, my husband may have some other ideas on that once he finds out about this!! *ALL* Boy, I've just taken up WAY too much board space on this. I promise to fill you in on the conversation when it happens. Until then......... Peg

$500 to talk to Harlan himself?! I'd rather pay the phone bill and take my chances. Now, if I could just find time to get my review done, I could do it for free. Then again, I was contemplating calling him to talk writing and such (I have a few things I've been meaning to discuss since June), but good luck getting hold of him, I know. My days have been filled with class and homework (pulling a 3.4 average, be happy for me), and my weekends filled with shopping and going to Goth clubs and concerts with my friends, but I *will* get that review done, even if I have to tie myself to the computer! I tried to get pictures at our last club venture, but we only had two on the camera, and I wasn't in them. We do have a nice informal group shot taken on campus, and as soon as I get that developed, you can see for yourself how far I've risen (but some of you may say sunk) into the world of Gothdom.

ON 20-MINUTE PHONE CONVOS: I can guarantee as a charity item Harlan would undoubtedly not bite your head off - and I can also guarantee the guy can fill 20 minutes worth of conversation. I wouldn't sweat that worry, if you're gonna be worried worry about figuring out what amenity you will give up for the next month to get the $500.00. ON TICKTOCKMAN: Shoot, I forgot to e-mail my answer on this - I think the mrmeeing of the TickTockMan is just a sign that the TTM has gone slightly off his rocker (which in the context of the story is a GOOD thing as it indicates our protagonist's efforts have not been in vain) - I've never heard deeper meaning ascribed to it, and Harlan practically foamed at the suggestion a few years back that the sound meant the TTM was a robot.

First, I've help from had several wonderful folks, thanks to all of you! [side comment - you know, I've been very lucky that in the entirety of my dealings on bulletin boards - and that's going back a ways, folks - I've rarely encountered pinheads but have general found kind, fun, friendly folks. I'd like to think it's my taste in BBs but no one's that smart. HE ain't entirely correct about ALL denizens of the net...] ---------*********---------- Here's the scoop so far. No one's bid on the item yet - that $500 figure is the minimum bid per Harlan. I suppose based on his fees for a speaking engagement that $500 for 20 minutes is a bargain. I've called the folks at the charity auction, they are checking with FirstAuction to see if we can work a phone bid, and I should hear back soon. Now I just have to decide if I can get up the gumption to actually place a $500 bid. *cringe* It -is- for charity after all....right?! ---------*********---------- *FINDER* *ugh* I would NEVER ask such a thing; I plan to avoid any reference to as yet unfinished works, when the next whatever is coming out, etc. Given HE's low tolerance for fools and ingrates, I was planning to spend *significant* time coming up with a few hopefully intelligent questions and subjects. And to practice not talking so I don't waste that time!!! (hey, there's a reason my email is "trbotongue") Frankly the idea of a -private- conversation is, well, intimidating. I mean, what could I possibly say to the man that would be worth his time?? ---------*********---------- Well, it should all be settled in the next hour or two. The Pegster

As of 8:50 a.m. MST 11/02/98, the bidding on the private call to Harlan is up to $500.00. I did a search on H.E. on the Amazon.Com site and I found these three AUDIO BOOK titles: "The Greatest Mysteries of All Time, Vol.II" "The Greatest Mystery Stories of the 20th Century" and "The Odyssey." Has any one heard these tapes? In the first two, what stories is Harlan reading? Any opinions? Thanks, Shane

Oh, and while I'm not sleeping...CRAIG: I've always interpreted the end of "Repent..." like this: Everett, although he has been broken and has not caused a major revolution against the system, has in a small way (through their encounter) affected the Ticktockman. Before meeting Everett face to face, the Ticktockman wouldn't have simply told a subordinate (obviously terrified of him) to 'check his watch' with regards to his (Ticktockman's) lateness, nor would he have dismissed a three minute schedule slip. Ticktockman has been changed by Everett. How? Now THAT's a good question. As for the "mrmee mrmee" sound, I have a dual theory: first, with it's mechanical flavor, it portents that the system has begun to break down (after all, if the Ticktockman can be three minutes late, there's the potential for anyone to be late); and second, if you want a real stretch, think of Everett's name: Everett Marm. Or, if you're into abbreviating, E. Marm. Or, if you're listing people, such as in a directiory of names, Marm, E. Now, say it and slur past the "a" in "Marm". Close to "mrmee", wouldn't you say? Another sign that Ticktockman has been changed by Everett? Only the author could tell you for sure...Finder

Maybe it's me...in checking the info on the charity auction, understanding the constraints of software that require specific fields to be entered (such as the 0.01 lb shipping weight that is listed), does it strike anyone else as odd that a charity auction for a phone call has a $4.99 shipping and handling charge attached to it? Perhaps it's cynical Sunday here in the Nation's Capitol, but that sounds very strange to me considering the only thing that's getting handled is a check to a charitable foundation...And on a lighter note: what, pray tell, are the terms of the 90-day limited warranty? ("If you aren't completely satisfied, we're very sorry. You're on your own. We presumed if you bid to have Harlan Ellison call you that you knew what you were leaving yourself open to. Perhaps asking him why he hasn't finished "Blood's A Rover" wasn't such a brilliant idea, huh Einstein?") Chuckles -- Finder

I was going to read "Repent Harlequin" aloud to my kids this morning when I realized that I don't really understand the last bit; after "Or, to make the point lucidly:"... Is it Everett who grins sheepishly & goes back into his office going "mrmee,mrmee. And why "mrmee,mrmee" ? Is that the point, that although he's been caught & "treated" he can't be broken; he still rocks the boat & does things that are "meaningless? i.e still doesn't conform. That's what I thought but I'm not sure & it's the first thing my kids will want to know. Yours, Craig Brittain

BTW, Rick's booth is *nifty*. And you'll recognize the photo shots... (or you oughta!). Thanks for the latest updates Rick; as always, very appreciated (even if we don't always say something about it). Peg

Help Webderfriends!!!! *aaaaaaaaaarrrrrgggggggghhhhhh* .......___________________....... No, wait, that didn't quite express enough frustration. Let's try this again .......___________________....... *AAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH* .......___________________....... You may recall that I live and work in Alaska, rarely get a trip *outside* and have languished of opportunities to meet or speak or ever hear Harlan Ellison. So, joy of joys, I read on wonderful Rick's website that SciFi Con is auctioning off phone time with Harlan!!! Finally, a legitimate chance to chat with HE, without worrying about whether or not it's deserved or if he'd even want to and all the self-concious inferiority crap, cause I get to donate to charity for it!!! ........___________________...... So, lickety-splits, I jump that link right over to the auction page, and what do I find, but that my glorious employer (who ain't all bad, after all they pay me gobs to do something I like, but more on that in a moment) has ***BLOCKED THE @Q#(&#& SITE!!!!!!****. Meaning that until I go home from this tour, I CANNOT BID! And I'm stuck here till after the bidding is over. I can't even find out if there's a phone number I can call to bid. *sigh* .......___________________....... I'm starting to get really frustrated with the whole trying to see HE experience. How many years do I have to wait?! .......___________________....... Here's where I'm hoping I can depend on the charity of others. First chance - Is there a webderfolk who can find out if there is a phone number I can call for the auction? I would be in undying gratitude if someone could provide it to me. I suspect that this is wishful thinking, that there's no phone number though, so ........___________________....... Heck, I'm a woman of action (at least, occasionally *smirk*) so here's what I'm willing to do Option 2: I'm looking for a webderland faithful to join with me in this quest. If you will do the on-line auction bidding, I will SHARE the phone call with you. Yes, that's right, I'll do it as a conference call (*this is assuming Unca Harlan agrees that this is OK*). Heck, you don't even have to provide the cash. Just make sure the bid is in both our names, I'll provide all the ante for the bid!! Truly, I'm serious. Hey, I get the chance to meet HE *and* someone from Webderland. Besides, I work for big oil, they pay me a lot, so I can afford some cash for this. And it was my birthday (the 18th) and I didn't really get a gift, so this would be perfect! ........___________________...... Well, there's my plea. I know, for some of you this is no big deal. But I have always wanted to meet HE and just never seem to get the chance. ........___________________...... The auction goes till Nov. 2nd. If any of you webderboard folks are sincerely interested, please contact me at my business email (*grosetpa@bp.com*) and we can swap phone numbers and discuss details (like how much I'm willing to bid) & logistics & such. ........___________________...... The Pegster

Yes, that's my SciFiCon booth. For more info (and other news) check out the Webderland news page RIGHT THIS MINUTE!!!!!!!

Speaking of Moorcock... I just picked up Neil Gaiman's new short story collection SMOKE AND MIRRORS. It contains his story "One Life, Furnished in Early Moorcock" Maybe I'll actually get to the story this weekend. by the way, Gaiman admits to taking the title from Ellison.

Finder- There may also be a collaboration with Mike Moorcock per HE's interview in B5 magazine. Charlie

FYI: for your amusement, I found (via the "Locus Magazine" website, this "Day With Ellison" set up by none other than R. Wyatt, located here: )www.scifi,com/scifi.con/word/). If that address fails, just swing on over to www.locusmag.com --- DTS

Finder: Yeah, Ellison is collaborating with Bradbury, Dan Simmons, and Connie Willis on some new stories that (along with the tale written with Neil Gaiman) are supposed to be in the reissue of PARTNERS IN WONDER (otherwise known as Edgeworks 6). -- DTS

DOC - Many condolences on the loss of your great aunt. It's been some time since a piece of my own heart has been stilled by the encroachment of such events, and if I had my way it would remain so for many decades to come (my powers, however, are somewhat limited in that regard); after my good friend Joe died, for me it was sneaky little things; a new Clive Cussler novel (one of his favorite authors) would depress me to weeping, and Warner Brothers cartoons brought fits of anxiety and loss for some time. I feel for you...MAGGIE - I don't think a candle in the window is silly in the least. Quite the opposite, in fact...ALEX - I've had to hard-copy your review so I can read it uninterrupted; I began reading thrice, and my AOHell connection is being persnickety again, so it bombed me out mid-introduction all three times. So far, I think it's great - and I'm looking forward to the rest...NICOLE - I'll cop to being almost blissfully ignorant about the whole Goth thing. Zero interest, even from an informational standpoint. But that isn't to say it's either valid or irrelevant; just not my speed (I'm just beginning to understand Miles Davis' electric period as it is - don't tax me with more sensory input...); but I think it's great if it appeals to you as something to do, and if you want to explore that side of yourself, you should. You won't know if it's for you unless you do. So have fun, and forget the nay-sayers. (This should not be construed as a cart blanche "Abandon all rational thought and act like a lunatic.")(Sorry, I have three sisters and sometimes that big brother instinct kicks in at the darndest times...) THOSE IN THE KNOW - Is the tale reported elsewhere that HE is collaborating with Ray Bradbury on a new story for Edgeworks 6 true, or just some internet fantasy? I know about the story written with Neil Gaiman, but no others...ALL - Take care and I'll catch up with you on the flip-side...Finder

Hi all. As a long time fan of HEs, I am pleased he's coming to Beantown this Friday eve. Unfortunatly, I'm doing Dad stuff. Hey, HE's great, but kids first, yes? Anyway, is HE doing a signing or something else in our fair city that weekend? -Oz

Apologies - my computer told me that the message didn't go through and to try later. When I checked later the message hadn't been posted, so I sent it again. Actually, my computer seems to hate daylight savings time as much as I do - it's been acting up all day! Again - I'm sorry.

Doc - My condolences on the passing of your great aunt. I have reached the age where the older members of my family are going on and it is very difficult. When my Grandfather passed away I was about as unseemly as a member of my family gets. I am not, unfortunately, one of those quiet, dignified weepers. I can only say in my defense that I s