Three things.
First, great page.
Second, thanx for the stuff on HERC. I've joined, and got a recording of "Jeffty Is Five" and "Prince Myshkin, Hold The Relish" which is just incredible.
Third, is HE going to be on television any time coming up, anyone know?
Just as an aside, and fully sanctioned by Mr. Wyatt, "The Healing Power of Obnoxiousness: The Paul T. Riddell Essay Archive" is currently featuring a contest that offers a FREE copy of the limited-edition, slipcased Ziesing print of Harlan Ellison's _Slippage_. Details on the contest may be found at:
http://www.cyberramp.net/~priddell/contest/
Admittedly, the site has a lot more than this, but you'll have to visit to find out. (Contest ends August 2, 1998.)
Cordially,
Paul T. Riddell
The Healing Power of Obnoxiousness:
The Paul T. Riddell Essay Archive
http://www.cyberramp.net/~priddell
Oh -- Charlie, you might have to ask Rick "Interesting Sounds" Wyatt, but there used to be a link around here, somewhere, that would whisk you off to a reprint of the Gay Talese article. Hope that helps. The essence of the article was that Sinatra was sniping about Harlan wearing boots on "Frank's" turf, and Harlan refusing to play the game (Frank's game, that is; he *was* playing pool, and I believe beating the pantses offa someone). To avoid muss and fuss, Harlan and his chums split.
RICK> WOW!! That sounds so cool! This really is the very jazziest author site on the 'Net (only to be expected, for the jazziest author going), and it's only getting better. My official Way T'Go, Dude to you. Now why doesn't Paul Riddell have a site like this? IF ANYONE'S INTERESTED> Harlan is no longer writing reviews for the San Francisco Chronicle. Why? Because the schmuck editor of their 'Books' department, the one who came to Harlan claiming to be a fan, the one who gave his solemn word, his gentleman's oath that there would be no jiggery-pokery with Harlan's writing,... cut the review by about 2/3, and otherwise mucked with the prose. And this was first review out of the shoot, mind you. So, as there are suspiciously few major papers asking for Harlan, and a platoon that he *won't* write for due to past skullduggery, he's making noises about not doing reviews anymore. I'll find out the mug's name and mailing address in case anyone else out there wants to tell this chump what a colossal boob he is. Meanwhile, if I run into this dweeb, well, I hope you'll all write to me while I'm in San Quentin. Cheers, Doc
ON REVIEWS AND TALKING TO HARLAN - I am *very* excited to hear the reviews are progressing! I've spoken with HE about the reviews, and he has agreed to look over them and make comments. This can be done twice - once before you finish the review you can send him a preliminary run and/or any questions you want to ask, and then when the review is put online I will send it to Harlan for any comments he wants to make. But PLEASE send the info to ME and include your address and phone number and if Harlan wants to call you directly, he can. If he gets bombarded with phone calls he is likely to pull the plug. It's very rare that an author will participate in a review process of his own work and I'd like to preserve that participation if possible! OTHER NEWS........I will be putting up TWO Ellison stories soon, with audio of both and video of one to eventually follow. These stories are "Paladin of the Lost Hour" and "Susan". If anyone has a tape of the Sci-Fi Buzz Harlan read "Susan" on you can save me and the Ellisons some trouble.
BARNEY- Looked for the Sinatra rag but apparently all copies were sent back or sold out. I've seen mention several times of the HE/Sinatra run in, but never learned the details. Can you give a brief insight. Thanks. ET AL.- Why is there all this talk about calling HE at his house?? Give the man his space. Go to the cons or a book signing. I know talking to da Masta' would be great, but his privacy should also be respected. If you want to get on his nice list find him a Kersh book he doesn't have-he'll be ever grateful-I know first hand. Anyway, my two cents. Charlie
NICOLE> Your difficulty with HE's number is mystifying to me. Got your recent e-mail, and haven't had a chance to respond -- or should I say, *RE*-respond. Seems the server I'm on boots you off, if you linger too long at one particular site. Wiped my entire reply. GRRRRRRR! Furious? Guess. So, I'll be in your e-face as soon as Netaddress (my e-mail host) decides to let me into my mail. Hate this technocrap,... BARNEY> I think you misunderstood my admonition to Alex. When I was working on SLIPPAGE, and had a question, I figured the most expedient way to resolve it was: ask Harlan. He was delighted to help and asked to look at the reviews before they went up. Please note that I didn't suggest that EVERYONE call him and ask if he caught the Giants game (despite the fact that they *danced* on the Dodgers the other day; and they ain't been nothin' since they left Brooklynn). If you're polite and have some business, he's only too happy to assist. Just remember, it's his time and his terms. Cheers, Doc
Well, I didn't find it in the book. I had to go to the library in my neighborhood, deal with a librarian who obviously hadn't had her morning coffee, then I went to the downtown library, or at least tried to. Got lost TWICE. Twice in a downtown filled with one-way streets and me horrible with directions, then sitting in front of my comupter all day for, well, I can't say, to finally e-mail me the number. Peg, I have no courage. I called twice. Took me an hour to get up the guts the first time, an hour and a half the second. Never talked to him. Had a nice little conversation with Susan, who is an absolute goddess, but no Harlan. Yeah, sure, easy to call and talk with. I wish. Anyone who does manage to talk with him- ::jealous glare::
Harlan's phone number is no secret and it never has been. He's in the book. I think we should ALL call him EVERY day just to say hi and shoot the breeze. We should also get daily chest X-Rays and prostate exams and never floss. Misunderstand this posting at your own peril. Kisses,
Barney Dannelke [HERC #1]
*>>>>>* ALEX- this may be persnickety. I like the tite, but it does remind me of "Midnight in the Garden of Good and Evil". It's not too similar, just reminiscent. Course, if you don't publish for a while that book will have sunk into obscurity and no one will notice! ............................................................*>>>>>* NICOLE - I don't EVEN want to know what you went through to get HE's number. You're a braver gal than I, Gunga Din. I'd never even consider it unless he gave it to me, since HE is well known for thinking fans too instrusive and demanding. While I'd love to meet the guy and chat, it's just what I'd call an entertaining thought, an admiration thing, but not a realistic scenario. Just cause I enjoy his writing, etc., doesn't mean we'd actually have a lot to talk about or that he would even enjoy my company. [I'm sure most folks enjoy the fantasy that thier favorite author/musician/etc. would be totally captivated by their personality and they'd become lifelong friends...]. Well, that's it from the north. ------------------------>Peg
Alex, I do have a copy of Angry Candy here, but the words are incomprehensible to me. Doc, I wouldn't say mean or severe. You're a SOB with a heart, meant in the nicest possible way. BTW, did you get my last e-mail? I can't help but laugh at the casual way you suggest calling Harlan. I tried it, and it's not that simple. Still, it's the best way. And don't ask me for the number. You should go through as much trouble getting it as I did, and besides, I'm forbidden to tell where I got it. :)
ALEX> First, I like the title; how do you feel about "SERPENT In the Gardens of the Gods"? As for the plural gardens, I figured, "What god is gonna wanna share a garden?" Concerning "Soft Monkey," I don't have it handy for contaxt, and it's been awhile. My thought would be, "Sorry, honey." Or you could always call Harlan and ask. And, finally, *I* would like to see a sample chapter or two. I'm not mean and severe, pay no attention to what Nicole says,... BARNEY> It ain't gonna explode when I open it, is it? No guts, no glory, though -- my snailaddress is on the way. BILL> I've always found you a literate, capable person, and cannot imagine you producing anything like raw sewage -- I was going to insert a playful jibe, here, but decided agaisnt it; I'm sure you're doing a great job, and I look forward to seeing your review. Is that it? Did I cover everyone? Cheers, Doc
All right; this is an appeal to the collective intelligence of the posters and lurkers on this board. During a re-read of the story "Soft Monkey", I found to my chagrin that I simply could NOT figure out just what the Human Resources woman said about Alan, the baby--the words that Annie heard as "soft monkey". Now, while I understand what is meant in the abstract, I would really like a clue as to what the words Annie misheard were--especially as I'm halfway through the ANGRY CANDY review. Any help would be much appreciated.
BILL: The trip of your tongue was intentional: I wanted something that didn't just scan as a normal title, as the novel deals with many different pantheons ... As for editing the reviews, I'm just spewing out all that seems right now; I'll take the time to fix later--Yes, I _have_ been told that I'm self-destructive ... however did you know? {insert appropriately japish emoticon here}
Which is why I didn't pay full price.
You might be interested to know Harlan has been an online guest of a convention in Czechoslovakia this weekend with my help. His and other authors' discussions are at http://amber.i-topp.cz/parcon/conf. Also, if it's the one I'm thinking of, the Star Trek chapter Barney mentions has been mentioned by Ellison as containing several factual inaccuracies, the most laughable of which is a claim Harlan (who has had exactly one beer in 64 years) said something while drunk...
Hey Folks, Here are a couple of things I posted over on alt.fan that non trans-lurkers may be interested in.
Just a heads up to Ellison completists [you know who you are]. One
piece of positive fallout from the death of Frank Sinatra is that
everybody and their idiot cousin is trying to cash in. Toward that end
the people at TV guide have out on the stands right now something
called "Frank Sinatra:His Life in Words and Pictures" $4.95
Reprinted as an end note you will find the 1966 Gay Talese article
"Frank Sinatra Has A Cold" which contains Harlan's run in with "Ole
Blue Eyes" The original source was [I think] Esquire. 2 columns on
page 73 if you just want to read it.
While I'm posting Ellison completist information I thought a few of you might like to know that most of the major book chains presently have remaindered copies of the hardcover edition of "Inside Star Trek: the Real Story" by Herbert F. Solow and Robert H. Justman for about $7.00 [marked down from $30.00]. ISBN#0-671-89628-8
While I am not a Trek afficianado, there is a very interesting chapter called "On the Edge of Forever: Waiting for Harlan" which certainly rounds out ones perspective on the production of the show. Interesting reading presently at the right price.
Hey Doc! If you spot this send me your snailmail address. I got something for you and you wont even need shots to go with it.
Lator gators and jail baiters.....
Barney Dannelke [HERC #1]
Barney Dannelke
This is a slightly off-topic post, but are there any Webderlandians down there in OZ who might aid poor Billy D's feeble understanding? On the advice of many friends, I rented an old Austrailian movie this weekend called "Walkabout." And unfortunately I've got to admit that I was lost and bored through the whole thing. Didn't understand a bit of it. Why did the aborginee kill himself? Why was the girl afraid of him at the end after swimming naked around him for countless screen moments? In fact, why did their father even take the kids to the wilderness and strand them there in the first place? Can anybody render me some insight? Thanks. -- Billy D.
*ALEX*, you title sounds very intriguing, the kind you'd see in the bookstore shelf and pick up to browse just out of curiosity. The only thing that tripped me up a little with having Gardens in the plural. "Snake in the Garden of the Gods" flows a little better in my ear. Good luck with it. As for my review, I've started it and will be taking the first part to my writers' critique group this Thursday night--at least, then, by the time it hits the Webderland pages, it will be a LITTLE less raw than sewage. -- Billy D.
Nicole, considering both my overstuffed ego and my overinflated sense of sincerity, I cannot in good conscience say that my novel sucks, nor can I lay claim to the title of Best Writer Around (especially not around THESE parts); I know my novel is crap--but it's damn GOOD crap! No; I was referring to the SITUATION of being blocked so near to the finish line that sucked. As for more chapters--no; not yet. At this point in time it's too dangerous to feed my ego; I'll become content to rest on the laurels of good (some even great) chapters completed, and never FINISH the work. Perhaps after I get the review done and have jumpstarted myself on the novel (must--restrain--from asking--if--any ... any others ... want to see chapters ... Danger, Will Robinson!). One question I *would* like to pose to any and all on the board: is "Snake in the Gardens of the Gods" a title that sounds at all attractive?
Alex, whadda mean your novel sucks? Far from it. And send me some more chapters. My review? ::hangs her head in shame:: Won't be here till late Aug probably. This month is awful. College stuff, working on my stories with Doc, writing in general, and of course actually reading the book itself, what can I say? I hardly have time to enjoy myself anymore. Still, Rick, on my highest honor, you WILL have a star-quality EW3 review, guarenteed.
Well, after a long case of performance anxiety exacerbated by the fact that I've been all but stumped on my novel (which REALLY sucks, as I've come scant chapters away from the denouement), I finally started in on the ANGRY CANDY review. (Sorry for the delay, Rick!) In two hours, I got out a good 2500 words--and I've only just finished up on "Paladin of the Last Hour"! This is really the thing I needed--hell, it might just jumpstart me for the novel! Yet another thing to thank HE (and Rick) for ...
How go everyone else's reviews?
Anyone heard when HE is scheduled to be speaking at DragonCon? I'm seriously considering attending, but probably won't be there for the whole gig. Thanks. -- Billy D.
FINDER> Haaaaaaaaaaaahahahahahaha! (gasp!gasp!) Hahahahahaha! Your take on ST:V is *so* righteously right-on (This message brought to you by the Department of Redundancy Department)! I rocked, rolled and roared. The other things, we also agree on -- I think "Real Videos" is just the measuring stick for how ghoulish the teevee watching public really is. Ecch! A.J.> (that's you, Berman) Thanks for the tip on the Ellison books; got anything to pass on re: Kersh? Finished "Sgt. Nelson of the Guards" recently and was quite impressed; "On An Odd Note was equally terrific; still wading through "Song of the Flea," but eager to keep the collection growing. Get some sleep! NICOLE> Believe it or don't, the Evil Eye isn't "dumping" Snyder -- he's retiring, at least for a while. Asked Harlan about it, and apparently Mother Snyder is far, FAR from well, and the guy has other stuff going on. Gotta give the devils their due, and this one ain't at their door. "Dr. Quinn" is another matter; I hear their getting hate-mail by the freightload. Cheers, Doc
Doc, I think you're right on about Sliders. I KNEW there was something that bugged me about it, but I didn't really realize what it was till now. What I don't get is why they are dumping Tom Snyder and leaving Letterman- that man is annoying beyond belief! Thanks for the book info, Alex. I've been dying to read Memos From Purgatory, and it's great to hear that I can find a copy for a good price. And for those people who want me to type up a transcript of Tom Snyder (just FYI, it's not quite complete- VCR gave out the last few min) send me an e-mail, just so I have a complete list. I'm swamped with work all this month, but, just for you, I'll get a transcript to you by the week's end. Promise
My personal opinion? The so-called "reality" programming (that Fox has seemingly built its recent line-up around) really needs the boot - not, however, before that final segment: "The World's Greatest Animal Attacks on The Morons Who Somehow Believed This Crap Was Entertaining"...and "Star Trek: Voyager" (all we need is that spiffy holographic doctor to start waving his arms and shouting "Danger, danger Captain Janeway" and it will have lived up to its 'high concept'...) And while we're at it, are almost-nightly editions of "Dateline" really necessary? Sliders - I haven't watched in some time; it always struck me as having potential, but it got to be like listening to a gifted yet unambitious musician, crapping out and going mundane at a moment when brilliance is a daring, untaken step away. I have work to keep me frustrated - I don't need my entertainment to do the same.
Whoa! Another great thing about www.books.com -- they have an automatic "Compare Prices" option. As an example, Edgeworks 5 was priced at $22.94. I hit the "Compare" button, and, seeing that Amazon and B&N both were pricing it at $16.09, the site autoamtically lowered it to $15.81! I think I might start shopping at this site ...
Well, I found two VERY interesting bits of Harlan stuff on the web tonight. Suffering as I am from insomnia, I've been making nightly attempts to find the Kersh books Harlan wants--hey, wouldn't you? I can't think of NOT wanting a favor/phone call/signed book/whatever from Da Man. Happily, I've found a few things for him, so one never knows. Passim: In my search, I came across a site -- http://www.nemaine.com/cybertiques/girlie.html --from which you can buy old girlie mags. The authors listed in some of these blew my mind--I wasn't that surprised to find Robert Bloch, Henry Slesar, HE, and many others who were scrabbling to sell their stuff at the time, but there were mags which had stories by William Faulkner, Nelson Algren, and Irwin Shaw! Mind-blowing! Oddly, the ROGUEs listed showed no Ellison story (nor any that could be considered a pen name, though I'm sure he wrote a lot of the articles, considering the way he's said he produced the mag. ********** Even cooler was the new (new to me, anyway) bookstore site I found-- http://www.books.com ... A search for HE turned up over a hundred citations--and inexpensive ones, even for Harlan's rarer books! Anyone want _Memos From Purgatory_ for $2.90? _Gentleman Junkie_ for $2.70? _The Deadly Streets_ for three bucks? Granted, these are all the '83 reissue paperbacks, but still! This is a find! Had I any money right now, it would be spent. Ah, well ...
Well -- CBS has cancelled "Dr. Quinn, Medicine Woman," Tom Snyder is leaving the air and THE GLASS TEATS are approaching the shelves. I guess that's our cue to start kvetching and bewailing the state of television...again. When I heard the premise of "Dr. Quinn," I thought 'Ooooh, *that's* a winner...' As it happens thought, it turned out to be a fairly high-quality program. And whatever you think about him, there doesn't seem to be anyone else doing the style of interview program -- actual conversation -- that Tom Snyder does brilliantly. Whaddaya say we all take this opportunity to make a call on what needs to go, what needs to stay, and what we'd like to see instead. Personally, if I should die without being confronted by another "America's Funniest Home Videos," or "Bloopers & Practical Jokes," or others of that ilk, I will be beaming in my coffin. "Hard Copy" and all its illegitimate 'National Enquirer' cousins must go! Oprah, Rikki Lake, Montel Williams, Jerry Springer -- gone! Regis and Cathy Lee -- poof! Letterman, Leno -- vanished! Actually, Magic Johnson's new gig is a refreshing change -- clearly, he's not relying on his media persona, and focuses on his guests. Soaps -- zap! Hmm. This might be turning into a full-scale rant. Off the cuff, does anyone else have a problem with the (now Sci-Fi Channel) program "Sliders"? They can go anywhere they want -- and don't. And they insist on wrapping everything up in an hour, one show. Why not draw the story out over 2 or 3 episodes, take the time to really tell it, to explore all the implications? It would also give them the opportunity to get through a given show without violating story-logic -- I'm willing to go along with just about anything, as long as they're consistent, and they often aren't. Now there's a need for a "conceptual consultant"! Cheers, Doc
Yes, EW5 will probably come out in September. It will be both GLASS TEAT books together for the first time, it will be updated by Ellison and will include a double-length intro as promised. There will also be a comprehensive index covering both books together. I'll have more details on a news entry probably tonight, and also some more information on the fight to save the watershed land (don't forget to write your letters!)...
Say, does anyone happen to know if the rumors of Edgeworks 5 being pushed back to August or September have any truth to them? Though it's not something for which I'd have asked, it's semi-okay with me, considering my financial situation--or, rather, my complete lack of same.
F&SF promises nebulosly a HE short story in the next issue. hmmmmm
Sue: you mean you don't consider Vic a romantic? (did he know how to treat women or what? Wham! Bam! See ya later, ma'am.) Or how's about the narrator of "On the Downhill Side?" --- romantically, DTS.
Hey!! Trying hard to catch up on life, and you guys decide to go verbal on me.. Just got home from my seven day "weekend" trip to a famiy wedding in western PA.. Car died at the PA/OH Border.. YIKES! Don't ask.. That's what I get for giving in to "reasonable", and Not taking the bike.. The share a room thing sounds GREAT! - But now that "COOKIE" has decided to come west.. DANG! Now I want to do BOTH! And Chi-town is a LOT closer (and loaded with relatives = free digs..).. Always something.. Well, it's a good back-up.. :-) .. I'm game to try for space-sharing.. We aren't fussy about where or when we sleep - but I do insist that everyone else bathe often.. };-) .. ***RICK*** I wouldn't expect you to kick in on a room you won't be using (though I'm still a-flutter with the notion you'd like to meet me enough to actually PAY for it.. giggle, or is that a measure of how little you want me parked in your livingroom??)- but I will give you a major Hugging if you could make reservations for us, since we are entirely clueless when it comes to local accomodations. On topic.. Who do I most identify with of the multitude of HE chars?? WOWSER! There's a little bit of squirming involved with most of them.. The one that jumped to mind was Jessica in Along the Scenic Route... and, is it just me - yes, Sue, Just You - or is there a peculiar lack of romantic-type "heroes" to identify with in HE works?? I'll be back with you later, after I get caught up with what 3 unsupervised grown men do to a house in a week.. AI-YI-YI!! Anyone know what the record is for unanswered e-mail pile-up?? Try High - Fly Straight - Drive Safe
Who do I most identify with from an Ellison story? Easy. The alien from "How's the Night Life On Cissalda?" In the words of Randy Newman, "my life...is good."
Hm. With whom of Harlan's characters do I most identify? That's poser. I would think myself an amalgam comprising parts of (in order of how much I think of them as me) of Andy Sorokin ("Punky and the Yale Men"), Danny Stiles ("Djinn, No Chaser"), Michael Kirxby ("All the Birds Come Home To Roost"), Fred Handy ("The Resurgence of Miss Ankle-Strap Wedgie"), and Cort from "The Cheese Stands Alone." A wide range, true, but there is always the defense of Walt Whitman: "Do I contradict myself? Very well, I contradict myself. I contain multitudes."
The character I identify with most closely? The protagonist in SHATTERDAY. I hope you guys all mailed your letters to Councilman Feurer - god knows from the savage beating I've taken on the fandom newsgroups hardly anyone else cares to. Also, on the HTML problem - you should read the paragraph at the top of the comments submission page "Anything resembling an HTML tag will be summarily destroyed" - so you can put in addresses but don't try to put A HREFs around them, okay?
I am like the woman from Maine who is an incidental memory of Brubaker in "The Other Eye of Polyphemus". I am from Maine, and Harlan pegged the type square-on.
In answer to Peg's question (which HE character do you share most of your traits with?): I'd have to say I'm a mix (sort of a mutt) of two characters -- Vic & Blood. Adios, DTS.
If Peg claims first shower, I get second, and the floor (somehow, more comfortable than the bed). Might as well start out with which character I *don't* identify with. Top one would probably be Gorrister (IHNMAIMS)- I do the suicidal loner/apathetic bit more often then I like to admit, and this is not the time nor place to elaborate on that one.
If Peg claims first shower, I get second, and the floor (somehow, more comfortable than the bed). Might as well start out with which character I *don't* identify with. Top one would probably be Gorrister (IHNMAIMS)- I do the suicidal loner/apathetic bit more often then I like to admit, and this is not the time nor place to elaborate on that one.
Rah! The Peg-inator is back! Missed ya, kiddo. I was starting to worry about whether the bears had eaten you up. What character and/or trait to I most strongly with? Yipe -- kind of depends which day I'm on, really. Some days, I'm a ringer for Kadak; lately, I'm feeling an awful lot like Arky Lochner. Aw, geez, this is takin' me places I don't wanna go. I'd go on, but frankly I don't trust myself to be too objective. Pfui -- I'll give it a whirl and get back to you. INFOMAN> I'll have you know that my hero is no two-dimensional cardboard cut-out. Thpppppp!
oops....sorry for the double post. consider me shamed by the web gods...
Well, well, I know, it's been a while, so sue me. Sorry for the long absence, I've been off work a while and my parents are visiting for 2 weeks (what WAS I thinking?!). Caught the Masters of Fantasy show on HE - totally worth the time, even worth waiting through the commercials. Makes me even more disappointed that I have yet to hear HE speak/read/otherwise publically pontificate. As for DragonCon, if I were going I'd pop for the room & we could all share - on the condition that I got a bed & the first morning shower. A woman's got to have her standards, right? *laf*. *****Warning: self-flattering side note ahead......(Unlike other formerly poor but now financially secure people in the world, I remember being strapped in school & other times but also that I have had the great blessing of friends who were generous beyond measure, and so try to share when the appropriate occasions arise.)end self-flattering side note***** Would that I could make that particular con scene, I'd love to meet some of you in addition to seeing HE. I am, as usual, jealous. I can at least offer free room & board in good ole Anchorage for those who'd like to visit. (of course, we don't have any cons here, and certainly no HE appearances...and with low oil prices, I've not a business trip in sight. But it is a beautiful place - yes, even in winter). Time to go, but I feel the desparate need to prove my intellectual self-worth by leaving a discussion-starting, post-creating-frenzy-starting question...but you'll have to do with this one *****Of the characters in HE's stories that you can recall, which do you most strong share a trait(s) with, and which trait(s) would that be?***** Later - the Pegster
Well, well, I know, it's been a while, so sue me. Sorry for the long absence, I've been off work a while and my parents are visiting for 2 weeks (what WAS I thinking?!). Caught the Masters of Fantasy show on HE - totally worth the time, even worth waiting through the commercials. Makes me even more disappointed that I have yet to hear HE speak/read/otherwise publically pontificate. As for DragonCon, if I were going I'd pop for the room & we could all share - on the condition that I got a bed & the first morning shower. A woman's got to have her standards, right? *laf*. *****Warning: self-flattering side note ahead......(Unlike other formerly poor but now financially secure people in the world, I remember being strapped in school & other times but also that I have had the great blessing of friends who were generous beyond measure, and so try to share when the appropriate occasions arise.)end self-flattering side note***** Would that I could make that particular con scene, I'd love to meet some of you in addition to seeing HE. I am, as usual, jealous. I can at least offer free room & board in good ole Anchorage for those who'd like to visit. (of course, we don't have any cons here, and certainly no HE appearances...and with low oil prices, I've not a business trip in sight. But it is a beautiful place - yes, even in winter). Time to go, but I feel the desparate need to prove my intellectual self-worth by leaving a discussion-starting, post-frenzy-creating question...but you'll have to do with this one *****Of the characters in HE's stories that you can recall, which do you most strong share a trait(s) with, and which trait(s) would that be?***** Later - the Pegster
Awrighty, let's see if this works: go to www (period)locusmag (period) com (www.locusmag.com). If a large space appears before this sentence, I give up. If not, I have been (semi) redeemed. Doc, cancelation of your subscribtion to the Infoman newsletter (featuring the nifty cardboard cutout of your favorite hero) is in process (see what insubordination gets you?). Informationally tapped out, the man.
Curses -- I hate when I double post like that. I think what Infoman was getting to was the URL for SFGate. Do a search on 'em through Search.Com, or the engine of your choice.
For your Info, Man, something about the posting mechanisms here edit the URLs right out. Yessir, carves 'em out like a hot knife through clarified butter. Weird, huh? 'Course, that doesn't mean you *ain't* going senile,... Cheers, Doc
For your Info, Man, something about the posting mechanisms here edit the URLs right out. Yessir, carves 'em out like a hot knife through clarified butter. Weird, huh? 'Course, that doesn't mean you *ain't* going senile,... Cheers, Doc
Er, um...whoops. The message below was supposed to tell you to head over to Guess I either deleted it or (could it be? Has Infoman gone senile?), heh-heh, forgot to type it in. Yours in senility, Infoman.
THAT"S RIGHT! IT'S THE RETURN OF THE WORLD REKNOWN AND REDOUBTABLE (with apologies to Barney) INFOMAN! (by the way, all you club members out there who know his secret identity are encouraged to guard it with your life...or your ovaltine rings, whichever you choose to forfeit first). Here's the latest: if you head over to and, after letting the page download all the way, cursor down to "new features" and click on the "other reviews" highlights, you'll find a hyperlink to a review written by Harlan Ellison for the San Franciso Chronicle. The novel reviewed is a reissue, MAN ON SPIKES by Eliot Asinof (a novel about baseball, natch). For any of you Webderlanders out there who might've be mulling over the idea of reviewing an Ellison book for this site and are wondering how the Icon hisself does it, here it tis. Whew. I'm worn out from flapping my arms along these cyberspace airways. Gotta fly now (zoinks, and away!). Informationally, the man. P.S. (just read "Objects of Desire in the Mirror Are Closer Than They Appear." Pretty neat little tale about...no, no. Don't want to spoil the surprise. Better let you guys read it for yourselves -- though it has whetted my appetite for that tale-in-progress about vampirism which I read about, "Bring On the Dancing Frogs," reportedly based on passages from the Book of Thomas, in which a man gives a teenaged Jesus the short shrift and is cursed with being the first vampire).
I don't know if anyone else has seen this, but HE made a cameo appearance on "Freakizoid!" a while back. Pretty funny, actually. I don't have the name of the episode, but it shouldn't be too hard to find.
If you guys are on the west coast or get a late version of JEOPARDY (the tv game show), you'll be interested to know Harlan was the answer to an $800 question in Double Jeopardy tonight! Rick Bob says check it out!
I agree with Nicole that seeing the video is the only way to get its full effect. For years, I've caught hints about Harlan's unique and fabulous estate in Sherman Oaks, but I could only guess as to what it reall might look like. The library! The Art! Oh, my!
OY-EZZ OY-EZZ, MAYDAY AND LIKE THAT!!!! For those of you who haven't already scriven a missive to Mr. Feuer, I just had a look at his website -- PLEASE NOTE!!! There was an ERROR IN ONE OF THE ADDRESSES! The address for his Sherman Oaks office should read as follows: 14310 Ventura Blvd., Suite 100. The address listed is at 1431 Ventura, and will likely get your nice letter sent back to you. He also has a City Hall phone number: 213-485-5031. Be nice to the man. Remind him only as a last resort that trying to get re-elected as a man who works for education is really, really hard, when the opposition has ammo like, "Sure - *private* schools; and he wrecked 200 acres of watershed land to do it." That statement's a pretty big pill, so we should robably save it for the end of our nice letters, and kindly, lovingly, *caringly* suggest it. Yours in Mischief, Doc
Turn your back for a minute, the things take over,...thank god. I was starting to feel like Earl Holliman in that TZ episode! "Where is everybody?!?" So now I know. If there's a chance, I say we make a grab for it: who has a credit card? If I can wangle a way *TO* the con (and I'm sure "con" is the correct word), it would be worth it just to get a visual recog on alla youse guys. Who knows -- I might even be able to save up money to kick in for the room. RICK> $10 is good seed-money; anybody got a peach pit they ain't usin'? WOLFMISTRESS> Glad to see you've returned to us! Feel free to e-zap me about anything. I've had some trouble with your address, or I woulda writ ya by now. I'm also glad you like the reviews -- please feel free to direct the attention of any hiring editors to those pages. Baby needs new shoes (and socks, and,...), the ol' Remington Bel-Air is getting rather feeble and costs too much to repair, others hidden in dark, distant but safe recesses -- that's slowed the review process considerably. Somethings I will committ in longhand; reviews ain't EVEN on the list. Gotta go, backpain. Smackers, Doc
Actually, Nicole, I'll have the fun of watching Harlan THEN South Park. Fun, no?
Alex, I can type up a transcript of both, except my tape gave out the last minute of the TS show, so it will be just a bit incomplete. I'll do one on Masters of Fantasy too, but I reccomend you actually watch it for yourself. After all, this is *Harlan Ellison* we're talking about, and that, in my humble opinion, beats South Park any day. I just finished writing a very polite letter to Councilman Feuer. Hope it actually does some good.
As another who missed HE's recent Snyder appearance, I'd VERY much appreciate any transcript of the show--perhaps whoever have the access and the opportunity (and the time, for which you may consider yourself thanked in advance) could type one up and submit it to Rick? Just a thought. ... What really annoys me is that I've missed every single showing of the HE Masters of Fantasy special, and, due to being out this coming Wednesday, will have only one chance to catch it--this should make for an interesting hour: Harlan and South Park ...
Hey, Finder! If you get back this way, check around for a chick singer named "Cookie Coogan". That's me and I tend to show up on gigs with Steve Brown, Dan D'Imperio, or George Reed. You never know---chances are I *might* be working. Chances are I might not, but like I said, you never know. It's purty 'round here---I love roadtrippin' from town to town. We take the back roads and dig the scenery with the windows down!
KEEGAN: Live from our 'it's a small world' department - I'm a SUNY Binghamton alum, worked at IBM out in Owego and have friends on the Tier, up and down I-81, in the Fingerlakes and up into Rochester - New York born and raised, and I'm forever road-tripping up that way (in part because it's near impossible to find spiedie sauce down here in Mary-land). It's always a trip to find someone else who knows what "home" is like. --Finder
Well, I persevered and found out that Dragon Con is September 3-6. For a flickering moment, I thought I might try to make it, meet some of y'all and generally observe the freak show. Unfortunately, I have plans to go to Chicago for the jazz fest that weekend, so that's out. (Sigh!) oh, well....
Hey, y'all. I tried wading through to find out when Dragon-Con is, but no luck. I'm all 'Netted out. Maybe I'll look around the site tomorrow. I caught most of the Masters of Fantasy (?) show about HE on the SF Channel. Man, Harlan looks great and I really wanna go hear him speak some day. What an entertainer! I like that stand-up prophet/comedian thing he's got going on...and what a hoot seeing HE in the bookstore window. These are all marvelous things I've heard tell of, but have been unable to avail myself of so far except through the magic of tee-vee. Back to Dragon-con: I can't vouch for Nicole (though I'm sure she's a fine human) but Sue and Joe Luesse are house-guests extraordinaire and would be great to share your Atlanta crib with. If I was goin', I'd make 'em a pallet on my floor, but I ain't, so maybe YOU can hook 'em up. Finally, I notice that Finder asks what seamy jazz underworld I work in. I live in Ithaca, NY and I work a ring of towns including Binghamton, Syracuse, Elmira, Corning, Auburn and occasionally Rochester. I'm ever slouching toward New York, Chicago, Toronto or LA.....
EMERGENCY ALERT! Check the news page (click the "News" icon above) for information on how YOU can help Harlan save watershed land in his area from encroachment. Those of you who saw the Tom Snyder show last night know what I am talking about!
................... also, on the DragonCon hotel room - there are no rooms left at the Con, but there are several hotels within 2-3 blocks. They are all around $80-120 a night for a quad (4+ person suite). If you guys get a group together I'll kick in $10 a night as seed money (but I'm NOT going to be the one who lays the hotel room on his credit card, mine are maxed!).
Well, just taking a break from another one of my dawn writing sessions. Wolf, I got almost all of it on tape, and I'll be glad to type you up a transcript. That Buddahism thing startled me a bit, too. I personally think he would make a great Wiccan, but there's something about Harlan with an athame (ritual sword) that just scares me. He certainly was in top form. Had a lot of energy.
Well, like a total ditz, after a full week back to real work, I had forgotten HE was on Tom Snyder tonight altho planned to stay up to see it because I like TS show, and sure enough -- ** I fell asleep!**
I woke up in time for the last 3 minutes or so -- when Tom asked him about Babylon 5 and his opinion of Christianity. In his reply HE implied that the only religion he respected, I guess is Buddhism. Now maybe I'm mistaken but is HE mellowing in his elder years or what? There was a time when I distintly remember him slamming *every* religion for his usual reasons. And he didn't get as nearly crazy about Christianity as he usually has. I very much liked his comments on interviewers,tho. He was looking good in what little I saw, and I could just beat myself for not remembering it was on!!! Anyone got a full run-down of what he had to say, since it was a live broadcast (comes on 2am here) And DOC -- I will email you privately about your incredible reviews! There must **definitely** be more of those! You're wonderful! Later, people. "....there's no such thing as normal life...there's just life. Get on with it."
While I can't help anyone with Atlanta accoms (perhaps you pilgrims can go in on a room together, in fine fannish trad?), i thought I'd pop in and mention that I've unearthed my copy of a 1976 tv interview half hour Ellson did for the Syracuse U PBS station. Not too shabby--aside from fashion questions, visual interest is provided by how much HE and interviewer Rich Eiswerth look alike. BTW, Sue, Murdoch's News Corp owned TV GUIDE for a few years before the big smash-together now in progress...just sharing the wealth/debt, now, with TCI. And all dollarwork is prostitution to one extent or another...
Sue, I know exactly where you're coming from, and I was going to ask the same thing closer to the Con date, but anyone have any objections to rooming with a shy, quiet teenager for about two days or so? I mean, I've got college expenses and all that stuff; I'm sure every one of you can sympathize with that. And I'll only be in the room every now and again, stay out of yor way, etc. I don't want to be a pest with asking this, but since we brought it up, might as well deal with it.
OK guys - here's the skinny on DragonCon.. It costs too much for a place to stay. And we don't have a friend in Atlanta to put us up.. (all the rest of our route is covered) SOoooo - I'm asking if anyone going, or intending to go, would like to accept a little cash bribe to let us sleep on the floor in their room... :-) ... And I do mean *little*.. We'll bring our own sleeping bags, and stuff socks in our mouths so we won't snore too much.. We don't need a LOT of sleep, or at regular hours - and we will probably only be there for one day of the con... Otherwise, we'll be going to the thingie in Madison (HIYA WM!! Old buddy... Good Pal... with floor space...) and by-passing Atlanta for the Florida Keys in September. (we *have* friends there..) Drop me a line if you are open to bribery - and want to have a Good Time.. Sorry to be a drag - but our budget got hammered with Have To stays for family weddings (motel, food, and travel costs for us AND the four kids, and the gift - is a fiver in a card not up to snuff???) Got TWO of the darn things to go to.. Sheesh! I coulda got a whole new bike for that kinda cash.. And it's not like I've seen any of these cousins and nieces and nephews in the last decade.. What it the "thrill" of having bikers at your wedding?? Yes, it was specifically mentioned in both invites - come on bikes.. Between getting Pfarfegnugenned when the car died, and now having *3* kids in college.. Can we say cat food?? That ad on TV for the new gourmet Pedigree canned dog food sounded tasty.. Why do I get the feeling I'm in training for retirement living on Soc. Sec.?? **ALL** still trying to think of something HE to say.. don't hold your breath..
SUE = Haven't seen anything from you around the lair. Either Burbank is napping at the switch, or I need to check the other sanctum - mayhaps you is replying to the Easypost (lovingly referred to as "Queasypost") address. WOLFMISTRESS = here 'tis: click on the BIO link at the top o' the page; then, click on ELLISON REVIEWS; then, click on anything by K.C. Locke, who is me. You will then be assaulted by screen after screen of my deathless prose and razor-keen observations. BILLY D. = I love you, too. ALL (to whom it applies) = Has anyone else tried to e-mail me at the Mesmeratronic Institute for the Study of Creative and Enriching Time-Wasting and Other Entertainments? Just curious - haven't heard from some who I thought would ring my doorbell and run. Speaking of running, I've got to. Anyone desirous of a visit to my site, please e-mail me for the address. Rick will post it, by I'm sure some of you are just drippy with antici.........pation. Cheers, Doc
WoW! Can't believe it's been SO Looong since I posted.. Regular lurker, though... ;-) ... Been comepletely wrapped up in Real Life Doings, and what little spare time I had went to learning how, and then putting up our own web site.. YIKES!! Anyone know why sound files come up as .txt files in Netscape - but Only accessed by an HTML tag?? weird darn stuff... Ah well.. **TODD** My condolences having been "acquired" by Murdock.. Is that anything like being an "escort"?? **DOC** I've sent several e-mails.. Thought maybe you were off-line again.. But I read your post, so I sent another one. sighhh.. **WM** Glad to see you up, and at 'em again! **ALL** ummm... haven't got anything else to say at the moment.. Let me think about it for a while.. I might accidentally think something..
Nicole, I have e-mailed you at LadyLark55@aol.com twice in the past week about the review project. I'll resend you copies of the e-mails, let me know via e-mail if you do not get them.
BTW, the aforementioned MASTER OF FANTASY schedule and other HE appearances is on the upcoming appearances page, accessed via the News page...
Okay, I'm lost here on the topic. Hell, I'm lucky to even know what T.V is, as I hardly ever watch it. Doc, your reviews *are* pretty intimidating. Scared me out of reviewing for a while, but I'm going to give it a shot. And whatever do you mean you're not coming to DragonCon?! I was hoping you'd be there. Wolf, I'll drop you an e-mail sometime. And so much for a regular time in the chat room. Why do I get the feeling that no one ever listens to me? Rick, still waiting to hear back from you about reviewing "An Edge In My Voice"
Well, if the AP got it right, they're keeping the old Prevue Channel parent corp name, now no longer a wholly-owned TCI subsidiary. There's a fellow writing for THE NATION who's making a vest-pocket career writing about and drawing charts of the interconnections of the monster entertainment/news/publishing congloms...the articles aren't that insightful, but the point is hard to miss--the "mainstream media" which all used to sound the same because it was produced by and largely in the interests of one type of people, is now going to sound even more similar as it becomes the literal property of a very small number of people (they'll have "controlling interest" at very least). Neoliberalism (running government as much like, and as much in the interests of, big business as possible, while retaining as little Visible suppression of dissent as possible--"We're no fascists!") just keeps chuckling along...
Ms. Coogan: Your remark about James Byrd's incredibly ugly demise is apt...and it kinda makes my point a while back about those good old days, where this kind of insanity might get a two-line mention in a police report column in the locality where it happened, and then again it might not. Now, it's trumpeted internationally. Unfortunately, either way it doesn't help Byrd, but the question remains--what can we possibly do about the kind of ugly furniture in human form who can actually do that kind of thing to another person (aside from install them in elite units of police forces or the military of most countries that have those institutions, I mean)? The new face of racism, after all, is the bland sympathy of a Bill Clinton telling you that if you just flip burgers well enough, enough will spill off the Croc family's banquet table to allow you a life of quiet desperation, and it damned well better be quiet, unless you're as charming as you kiss wealthy arses as Clinton himself is. Ah, well.
Ms. Coogan: Your remark about James Byrd's incredibly ugly demise is apt...and it kinda makes my point a while back about those good old days, where this kind of insanity might get a two-line mention in a police report column in the locality where it happened, and then again it might not. Now, it's trumpeted internationally. Unfortunately, either way it doesn't help Byrd, but the question remains--what can we possibly do about the kind of ugly furniture in human form who can actually do that kind of thing to another person (aside from install them in elite units of police forces or the military of most countries that have those institutions, I mean)? The new face of racism, after all, is the bland sympathy of a Bill Clinton telling you that if you just flip burgers well enough, enough will spill off the Croc family's banquet table to allow you a life of quiet desperation, and it damned well better be quiet, unless you're as charming as you kiss wealthy arses as Clinton himself is. Ah, well.
Well, Jim, the funny thing is that News Corp and TCI together smashed TV GUIDE and its ancillary properties and TCI's PREVUE CHANNEL (you know, the half or full screen rolling log on channel 2 or 120 or something like that on most cable systems) into an all-but-wholly-owned joint subsidiary, not yet named I believe, which has also absorbed a small listings service called TVSM. So we shall see. Yes, I now work for two media congloms rather than one. Old timers tell us the last years under Annenberg, that Spiro-loving so and so, were Interesting. We shall see how interesting things get now. This was driven by factors such as giving access to the TV GUIDE brand to TCI (who paid for that privelege), economies of scale in listing services (which will eventually be uh-oh for someone, unfortunately), and that TV G theoretically managed to lose money over the past year or so (and this leaves News Corp stockholders uncheered). We shall see. Hell with what Ellison has to say, you should hear dark fears in the stairwells and whispered conversations on the production and editorial floors...or, as I answered when my surgeon asked me how I liked working for Murdoch, "You mean, as opposed to Michael Eisner?"
Now that Murdoch has shoveled TV GUIDE off onto TCI I wonder: Will Harlan Ellison update his piece 'The Spawn of Annenberg'? Seems like he should. It would be fitting. Until next time...
Doc -- you're a true original -- what, I'm not sure, but you're definitely IT! ;-) Now I will display for all to see how really out of the loop I am -- I live in Madison, Wisconsin -- but what is this con you're talking about here? I have no idea! Of course, I've been in and out of the hospital, unemployed, and generally having a bad time of it. I sort of retreated from most human contact for awhile. Bouts of depression and having hizzy fits for awhile. It was wonderful! ;-O
Anyway, I am finally beginning to get back on track somewhat and am wondering what I'm missing! What's this 'con' and when? I don't think I've ever been this far out of whack. Haven't even picked up the latest in Ellison offerings. Lack of funds mostly. I'm glad to see we're all still here, though. It's nice to see most of the 'regulars' still alive and kicking (who or what is your choice, of course!)
Doc -- where are these 'intimidating' reviews of yours? I must read them and be thoroughly cowed by your flaming talent (no joke). Let me go before I get flushed. I will be more regular now that I'm feeling more myself (pun intended - maybe). Feel free to write me privately -- that goes for any of you. I need to talk to some 'real' people for a change. See ya!
Here's the info. re: the up coming show on that channel, which name won't be uttered here- Charlie
Arguably one of the most important science fictions writers of the twentieth century, Harlan Ellison has published more than 1,700 short stories, essays, movie and television scripts, and reviews. He has also served as creative consultant for the modern series of The Twilight Zone and for Babylon 5. He has received numerous awards, including the Hugo, Nebula, Locus Poll, British Science Fiction, World Fantasy, British Fantasy, Bram Stoker, SF Chronicle, International Horror Guild and Deathrealm Awards. For several years Ellison offered weekly commentary on the Sci-Fi Channel's Sci-Fi Buzz.
SCHEDULE
MASTERS OF FANTASY: Airs Sunday, June 14 at 10AM ET*
HARLAN ELLISON Thursday, June 18 at 8:30PM & 12:30AM ET*
Sunday, June 21 at 10:30AM ET*
Wednesday, June 24 at 8:30PM & 12:30AM ET*
I can see the light at the end of the rewrite gauntlet, which (provided that light isn't the proverbial train) will leave me free and clear to get back to my review after the end of the month...and my DragonCon plans have been scrubbed due to prior annual commitments (hey DOC - I see that little "I'm not the only one who can't go" happy-dance you're doing), though the con in Wisconson may be a fall-back position...MERLIN- Amazing what you can't discern in a crystal ball, huh? "JWP" was a small publication containing three of HE's pieces (all previously published) plus a new, two-page introduction; it was put out by White Wolf for the American Booksellers Association Convention in Chicago. I believe, though I don't have a copy here in front of me for fact-checking, that the contents were "Sensible City", "The Cheese Stands Alone" and "How To Make Life Interesting". Of course, the real joke in all of this is that for what amounts to an introduction's worth of new material, you'll get soaked on the secondary market. Buy yourself a nice, sturdy copy of Gentleman Junkie instead...KEEGAN - which dark, seamy underworld of jazz do you perform in? --Finder
Here's a weirdo question for Harlan: Did Harlan ever meet (my hero) Babs Gonzales while he was living in New York? If I'm not completely stupid, I guesstimate that they may have been in Town at mutual times. Anyway...I'm singing one of Babs's songs on Saturday. It's called, "We Ain't Got Integration". I had planned it for months and thought I would have to present this rather dated sounding obscurity as a period piece (with its references to the New Frontier, Freedom Riders and a teevee in every home). However, with the heinous act of brutal, racist, murder recently commited in Jasper, TX against one James Byrd Jr., I can only shake my head and see that the song is more timely than many of us would like to admit. Anyway, wonderin' if Harlan ever ran across Babs in his travels.
*MERLIN* Jokes without Punchlines could also refer to DOC's humor. Just kidding, *DOC* -- Billy D.
Merlin: it's a book (ba-hahahahahaha!).
could somebody please tell me what "jokes without punchlines" is?
merci.
could somebody please tell me what "punchlines without jokes" is?
merci.
"Bathroom humor?!?" How do you know what goes on in my bathroom? Anyway, a throne's a throne. Shocked, are you? Well, then, my efforts were not wasted. Now if you'll excuse me, this has been a draining experience, and I'm feeling a bit flushed. And who the hell is this "Frank?" - Cheers, Doc
Doc, I believe the word "intimidating" is being bandied about because your reviews are so good. Most of us schlepps that have signed on to do one are nervous about looking mediocre in comparison (I was gonna wax rhapsodic about wordsmiths who mix personal, downhome, street experience with love of the form and clever wordplay...but then you go and stoop to using bathroom humor...frankly Doc, I'm shocked [rhyme intended]). Out here, DTS
Jeez Louise! Try to get a few "sound effects" where ya had 'em, and end up with a double posted (of course, it ain't like I've never been double-posted before, but that's a story for an ENTIRELY different site,...[and I don't mean for sore eyes, either,...])
Wotta guy! Well, as your just reward, DT, you go and "supp" on it all you like. Intimidating reviews? Now, wait a minute! What's all this I keep hearing about my review work being intimidating?!? In any case, the review on LANBSM isn't going to appear with the relative alacrity the others enjoyed - busy having a nervous breakdown (kzzzzzzt! pop! pop!) Cheers, Doc
Wotta guy! Well, as your just reward, DT, you go and "supp" on it all you like. Intimidating reviews? Now, wait a minute! What's all this I keep hearing about my review work being intimidating?!? In any case, the review on LANBSM isn't going to appear with the relative alacrity the others enjoyed - busy having a nervous breakdown Cheers, Doc
Doc, caught an error in your last message and thought I'd point it out: second to the last sentence, I believe you misspelled the fifth word...it should be "supp-" etc., instead of "rep-" (who loves ya babe?). Yours, in spell-checking and instigation, DTS. (by the way, looking forward to your next review -- the reviews you've posted so far are more than impressive -- they're intimidating).
"They die of new ones," eh? That's a little too deliberate. Part of what makes Harlan's stories in general, and "Jeffty" especially, so personal is that Harlan doesn't try to make up our minds for us. Ending the story with the question not only keeps the reader involved, but keeps them thinking as well. If "Jeffty" were an open-and-shut case, it would be less effective. Thus say I, the repository of all argument. As you were - Doc
Joanna Russ once suggested (in F&SF, which also published the story in the special Ellison tribute issue in 1977) that the last line (sort of a spoiler warning) of "Jeffty is Five" should have been, "They die of new ones." Any thoughts?
Yipes, but this place sure slows down on the weekends! Welcome back from El Lay, Nicole - quite a town, huh? GREG> Is this up-coming HE appearance a new one, or a repeat? I'll watch it anyhow, but I just wanted to know how hard I should try to get in at the beginning. SUE> Have you been trying to e-mail me? I don't seem to be getting anything from some folks who say they've tried to zap me messages. Cheers, Doc
HE will vist with Tom Snyder on June 19. Warm up the Ovaltine and fluffen the pillows. As always, this should be good.
Well, I is back, able to answer e-mail again. Thanks all. I'll be looking. I have a crazy thought here: shall we try for the chat room sometime 6-8 PST again? All this week, maybe. Or if anyone else has some times...? Like to be able to talk to someone other than myself there (although I do have great conversations, but anyway) The thing about summer break is, now that I have all this time, even between writing and my job, what do I do with it? Oh, Doc, I got the address change. I'm not sure..did you get the last thing I sent you? Got quite a story.
I was watching THE LATE SHOW WITH DAVID LETTERMAN last night and he had George Carlin on. Given that I was half-asleep, had my head half-hidden by the pillows on the bed, and not actually looking at the box, I was struck by the similarities between Carlin's style and Ellison's style. Does anyone Out There know what HE thinks of Carlin--likes or dislikes--and what his take on stand-up comedians today is? (Given he was once one himself?)Until next time...
"Jeffty Is Five" (still my favorite story BTW) is also in the anthology THE FANTASY HALL OF FAME published by Harper. The cover proclaims that the stories were chosen by the members of the Science Fiction & Fantasy Writers of America. The book was edited by Robert Silverberg. My man got it for his birthday and it gratified both of us that "Jeffty" was included. BTW: I'm lovin' EDGEWORKS 3. I love Ellison essays. I especially enjoyed the lawnmower story in the intro. HE better watch out because I could *definitely* see the Simpsons ripping off that one. HE himself said he was sort of his generation's equivilent of Bart Simpson and ---OOH BOY!---what a trick to pull on Groundskeeper Willie!!
Nicole: you can find "Jeffty Is Five" in THE ESSENTIAL ELLISON. It's also included in the anthologies, THE BEST of THE NEBULAS and STRANGE DREAMS (both trade paperback). It was originally collected in SHATTERDAY, which will be reissued in the Spring of 1999 (along with NO DOORS, NO WINDOWS).
Gee, our flaming topics seem to have fizzled out. Oh well, we'll have something going on soon. Anyone know where I can find "Jeffty is Five"? Heard a lot about it, but never read it. Doc: can't get to my e-mail, so I'll ask here: would I be a pest if I tried to call him again? Might do it tomorrow, maybe.
And, yes, WM, it's the same Richard Geis.
"Finder"--you misunderstand me. I don't think of the days when lynching was a commonplace occurrence as "good". That was the point. I'm sorry a friend of yours was hanged. I'm also tired of listening and reading about how lovely life was before (your choice of scapegoat here). It wasn't. The fate of your dear ones reminds us that it remains not. At least some of the time.
Wolfmistress--I'd feared Geis was dead (considering how ill he was a few years back, while publishing THE GEIS LETTER), and was glad to see his recent notes in ANSIBLE, which i re-recommend everyone check out as a witty and consistently interesting webzine (as well as Hugo-winning printzine) about sf, fandom, and related matters. Browsers away.
"Finder"--you misunderstand me. I don't think of the days when lynching was a commonplace occurrence as "good". That was the point. I'm sorry a friend of yours was hanged. I'm also tired of listening and reading about how lovely life was before (your choice of scapegoat here). It wasn't. The fate of your dear ones reminds us that it remains not. At least some of the time.
Wolfmistress--I'd feared Geis was dead (considering how ill he was a few years back, while publishing THE GEIS LETTER), and was glad to see his recent notes in ANSIBLE, which i re-recommend everyone check out as a witty and consistently interesting webzine (as well as Hugo-winning printzine) about sf, fandom, and related matters. Browsers away.
One last thing: the ISBN numbers listed below probably wont work at local chain stores or online versions for a month or two -- until the information gets loaded into everyone's systems (by the way, the paperback reprint of Ellison is, according to the Houghton Mifflin catalog, supposed to include "two pieces not printed in the hardcover edtion," which probably means that the extra pieces from the limited, Ziesing edition will show up in the trade paperback). Goodnight moon...
Yes, I'm still here. Just lurking mostly these days, but every so often, I have to make my presence known.....
The Richard Geis mentioned below -- is that the same Richard Geis who once published Science Fiction Review????? I thought he died years ago???
Just wondering.....
FYI: for anyone still holding out for the paperback version, Mariner Books (the paperback arm of Houghton Mifflin) will be issuing SLIPPAGE in a trade paperback ($13, ISBN0395924820) in September (ANGRY CANDY, ISBN 0395924812, will also be reissued by them, in trade paper, that month -- the cover design looks like they're meant to compliment each other on display). Out here, DTS.
Finer: all I know about THE PRINCE OF SLEEP is probably what you know: the middle portion of that novel-in-progress (which was written, in part, to fill the void in SF where character-driven novels are concerned) was published as "The Region Between" and collected in ANGRY CANDY. Out here, DTS.
Let's try this again, seeing as AOL tossed me in mid-proofread of my post (I can see where HE might be suspicious of the whole computer thing...)...SUE: thanks for the pointer to the first page of "Objects..."; Of course, I knew going into it that those first few drops would leave me thirsty for the entire glass; I live entirely on the wrong coast for the whole HE experience...DTS: thanks for filling in the gaps on "Ellison Under Glass", which I'd heard about back in the planning stages, but had no detail about. Now, you wouldn't have any background on, say, "The Prince Of Sleep", would you? Inquiring minds usually get a severe poke in the eye...TODD: Good old days? As someone who actually had a friend who was, literally, lynched six years ago by persons unknown, I'm disheartened by the flippancy you treat an act of such terror and brutality with. Maybe I'm biased. Maybe getting blind-sided by a second-rate syndicated news magazine that actually broadcast crime scene photos of one of my best friends literally at the end of a rope will do that. It screws up your head and cuts you to the bone, I assure you...DOC: RE the preceding, I understand fully now how my aside regarding the .38 caliber destruction of furniture hit one of your buttons. Mea culpa - the shoe, my dear Hastings, she does not fit so well on the other foot, especially when elevated to a position within the mouth, no? Apologies for my errantness are tendered to you...
Todd - RealPlayer had nothing - they don't broadcast Anthem. NPR had an Archive site - with no sound clips - but it does have a pix of the Chris Carter note to HE, and the first page of the manuscript.. Can be found at: .....http://www.npr.org/programs/anthem/bios/hellison.bio.html
Re: Those good old days. We don't lynch people anymore. What used to happen in the ghettos and in the backwoods didn't used to get into the papers, at least not so much once the old POLICE GAZETTE folded.
Lenny Bruce materials: The old Fantasy albums from the '50s are available on CD from Fantasy. Unfortunately, their posthumous collection, THANK YOU, MASKED MAN, is not, yet. THE REALIST magazine/newsletter is offering a collection of Bruce writings that I suspect, but don't know for sure yet, contains some of the ROGUE columns. Fantasy Records stole its logo from the early issues of THE MAGAZINE OF FANTASY AND SCIENCE FICTION, which still lists Ellison on the masthead as Film Editor (and the very amusing Movie special issue is on the stands, dated July). ROGUE's publisher apparently treated successive editors Frank Robinson, Ellison and Algis Budrys very shabbily, and was prosecuted for obscenity-peddling not too many years later, for issuing a fed report on porn that dared to reprint many of the items under discussion. Odd little threads that weave through our lives. (Alex--TIME magazine went as far as to label Bob Newhart, then a standup, "sick", if I'm not mistaken, much less Shelley Berman, Mort Sahl, Lord Buckley, and no doubt Dick Gregory would've been lumped in had he been on the scene by the late '50s...or at least it lumped the "new" comics together and reported that some referred to them as the sick group...). By the way, and now I've forgotten who was asking, but RICHARD GEIS is alive and apparently well--see his brief contribution to a recent issue of the Hugo-Winning, completely browser-accessible online/print fanzine ANSIBLE, wherein he discusses an aspect of the smear campaign against Arthur C. Clarke by UK tabloids; Clarke has outed himself in response to thugs who later recanted charges that he was not simply gay, but a gay pedophile, and how can Prince Charles think of knighting such a monster? Sells papers...
1. Ellison in the DV window. He was interviewed for the next week's episode of the NPR arts show ANTHEM, for about 10 minutes or so...I dunno if ANTHEM gets RealAudio playback on the NPR website or on your local station's website, but someone who missed it and has RA might find that worthwhile to find out. Dangerous Visions bookstore was offering a signed copy of the story HE wrote to anyone who bought X amount of goods from them, for how long wasn't clear, but check their website (or elsewhere on this one!) for that datum. The i/v was pretty good, mentioned Ellison getting the public writing idea from an account of Georges Simenon doing it, then after having done it a number of times himself learning that GS meant to do it but ended up not being able to, and that Ellison, as far as he knows, is the first to do so.
2) More than a year ago, in a discussion similar to the one about guns, I suggested that we will continue to see excessive violence in this country as long as a significant amount of people believe their lives are worthless. You can't value anyone else's if you can't value your own. As long as everything is keyed to dollars (Hi President Bill, first among many!), this tendency will continue...and I predict that in the increasingly neoliberal world order, that we will see a rise in this kind of disregard in other countries, to go along with the fascist tendencies in the not so happy lands such as Bosnia, Rwanda, and Indonesia.
Btw, Sue, Might Makes Right is very antithesis of anarchy. It's pretty much what we have now, for that matter. As you suggest.
3) How 'bout that big planet, arguably the only good bigtime news this week.
4) Favorite Ellisonia includes "Up Christopher to Madness" and its introductions by HE and genius coauthor Avram Davidson, and "The Deathbird". Of late (heresy warning), I'm getting the impression that Ellison is becoming somewhat more self-indulgent in some of his nonfiction writing, notably the intros to the White Wolf omnibi. Are they going out under shifting deadlines or had to be done during recuperation from his major health problems of some months/years ago, I wonder. Happily, his fiction has suffered no such (probably temporary) slump. Not everything in TEAT or the HORNBOOK or WATCHING is as good as everything else, but Everything in those books strikes me as better than, say, the intro to EW 3. Ah me.
Wow! Wander off for a few weeks to get some serious writing done, come back, and there's blood on the walls and in the grout. My, my. Well, I won't enter into the fray on the gun issue because I know better than that. Anyhoo, been putting together a new web site (the old one died a horrible, lingering death...don't ask. Just know that no guns were involved but I still have my bullet to bite in times o' crisis). If'n anyone here how might remember Yours Truly wants to know when and where and how and why and all that neat-o stuff, drop me an e-mail with the header 'web site' (Hoping now, he said, fingers crossed behind back, that we have done do licked the e-mail problem), and I will let you know the particulars. As to other matters, just a quickie here: I understand the next EDGEWORKS volume (containing THE GLASS TEAT and THE OTHER GLASS TEAT) is forthcoming. How does this affect the future volumes on their release dates? (I know: Keep notes, attend class, and ^%$## PAY ATTENTION!!!. Shoot. I was in Mexico that day, prof-dude and there was, like, this really neat, like, chick, okay, and like she wanted to do alla Shakespeare, like, in, like the nuuuuuuude?). Until next time...
Doc - on the chats, I'll have to pass tonight, we're doing a 24 hour relay event for the American Cancer Society (no we're not going for the whole 24 hours! We have 1 or 2 blocks of time we'll be walking/running, plus attending some of the other events). I wouldn't mind trying for a regular time. 7 PM PST or later works better for me. I'm rarely home from work before then (6 PM AkST). Of course, my schedule is so erratic this days (long story deliberatly left out) that I'd hardly be a regular... Ta, Peg
Oops! (volume 1 of ELLISON UNDER GLASS - mentioned below -- should be He Cut Off Their Tales WIth A Carving Knife) Always in need of a good editor! Out Here, DTS.
Okay, since I started this discussion and none of us want to deal with "Doc" when he's in a depressed or (on pun intended -- really) grumpy mood, how's about I change the subject and ask a goofy question (goofy, because most of you folks hanging around here are relatively wet behind the ears as far as being hardcore, longtime Ellison fans -- what we veterans would call "newbies"): Any of you guys ever heard of ELLISON UNDER GLASS? It was orginally supposed to be published by Pulphouse Press, but since they went out of business before Ellison finished some really interesting sounding interstial material (essays about the process of writing; and an interview about how his idea for doing the "writing in the window" stunt came about), it didn't get published. But I've no doubt that it will be published in the years ahead. Since it will probably be done by a small press, you guys should keep your ears to the ground, your nose in the wind, and your eyes open for signs of activity. The prospectus I still have lists it as a 3 volume set (vol 1: He Cut Off Their TAILS -- that word's crossed out and replaced with TALES; Vol. 2: Chicanery Row; Vol. 3: The Eighth Day of Creation), which is why it will (most likely) be published by a small press in limited numbers (the first time out, it was 1,500 trade copies at $25 a book, plus a few hundred more copies at higher prices). Another reason is that the stories consisted mostly of reprints, since the "theme" of the set was stories Ellison had written in front of audiences (often while sitting "in the window" of a bookstore. Stories like "Hitler Painted Roses," "Django," "Strange Wine," "Working With the Little People," "Night of Black Glass," and "From A to Z, in the Chocolate Alphabet." Additionally, Ellison had (at the time) recently written another "window" story (still unpublished) entitled "From A to Z, In the Sarsaparilla Alphabet." (written in the Dangerous Visions Bookstore, 1991). Now, with him having written "Objects of Desire in the Mirror Are Closer Than They Appear" in the same shop last month, and planning to writer another story (with Neil Gaiman) in front of an audience at the Mad Media 5 convention in Wisconsin, perhaps interest in the ELLISON UNDER GLASS volumes will be stirred up. (WHATEVER YOU DO: DON'T BUG ELLISON ABOUT IT!) But keep your little ears to the ground (and watch out for passing cars, okay?) Yours in vigilance, DTS. P.S. (just read a few pages of BAG OF BONES by Stephen King -- if the rest of it is as good as the first chapter, this could be another "watershed" book in his career; much more "mainstream" than anything he's done so far; watch for it Sept. 22nd -- Be there, Aloha).
Well - here it is later, and fresh input on the guns issue. Phil Hartman, one of the hardest working men in showbiz, and one of the genuinely funniest to turn up in a long old time: dead. Murder/suicide, looking like his wife went off; some debate over whether their 9 yr. old son and 6 yr. old daughter actually saw it happen. God, deliver us from a Movie of the Week. And here we are, discussing for all we're worth. I'm not accusuing anyone - but why do I feel this way? Doc
PS - Anyone interested in making a stab at the chat room nightly, say, 6 or 7pm PST? I'll look for you....Doc
Buttons, buttons - we all gots the buttons. I don't think we're going to get at any answers that 1. seem really right, or 2. make us feel good about ourselves and our fellow human beings. I don't own a gun, I prefer not, I know what my temper is like. Takes a bit to get me to that point, but I can think of several people whose lives have been saved by the 7-Day Waiting Period. I guess it comes down to responsibility, in a way, like parenting. When people are driven by greed or need, when their lives are or feel so out-of-control that they have to grab onto something, the myth of "Power through Gun-Ownership and Threat of Violence" seems pretty tempting. And if the only experience a person has is on the dirty end of the stick, with some authority getting *their* way through physical force, how easy and logical it seems for us to turn into cartoon characters, reaching for progressively bigger mallets. Handguns, I have a major problem with, whoever is wielding them. I would never make light of the loss of someone's furniture (Finder >;^}); my step-dad once emptied a clip into our teevee set. But he was a paranoid jerk. Meanwhile, my father accidentally put a bullet in my uncle's chest, because they had been horsing around with blanks all afternoon - DOA. An accident that could have been avoided by both of them, and especially my father, **NOT** being yahoos (no slur on the search engine intended). We aren't battling "Evil" here; I suspect we're fighting a useless fight against childish carelessness on a variety of levels, some of them quite extreme. And common sense is about as common as common courtesy...Oy. Now that *all* our heads hurt, I'll leave off before I get into the personal and societal laziness bit, and beg, *beg* that we talk about something else. BILLYD> How many analogies can dance on the head of a philosophy? Cheers, Doc
Whew - is it heated in here, or is it me? Myth, denial, means, opportunity, motive, and gun control, all in the span of a week. Lots of valid arguments and interesting POVs. But I think a common thread running through it all is the complete and utter lack of, for want of a better term, "common sense" in society. What else can you call it when you know the probable results of your actions will be injurious to others (or yourself), and you still proceed forward anyway? In some cases, I'm willing to say it's a matter of an individual who through defect of reason cannot distinguish between right or wrong. But the vast majority of offenders just come across as ignorant: gee, officer, I didn't think I was so plastered that I'd hit someone; gosh, did I leave the stupid thing loaded?, etc., etc. It's either a complete egocentricity that makes people really believe bad things can't happen to them, or that makes them look at the consequence, shrug and say "Que sera sera." Can a cause really be determined? Are we just de-evolving to a less enlightened (or less conscientious)
state? Or has society grown so lethargic in modern times (with entertainment, food, work, goods and even "human" interaction
coming right to your home, forever erasing the need to leave home) that people just don't use the brains they've got in their heads like they used to? Let's face it, you can't be synched with the community around you if that community consists primarily of what comes in on the cable and extends only as far as the paneled
walls of your den. And the smaller your sphere, the less there is to be sensitive to - which makes it a whole lot easier for people to shrug and say "it doesn't affect me, it doesn't impact my world, it isn't my problem." GRRRRRRR - Enough already; I'm making my own head hurt...DOC: A triple dog dare? Give me a little room to move, and stay outta the way of my flying fingers - you're singing my tune. And I hope the fever's down...DTS: bibliofind provides quick results, but it takes all the fun (plus that old papery smell and long, high rows of crowded shelves) out of the hunt...BILLY D: Good luck back at you; I'm skipping Writer's Digest this time around - shot the moon scrambling for the Disney Fellowship back in May. Nice to have someone else sweating the same deadline...SUE: My concerns about balance are much simpler than four wheels - take it down to the level of two feet...and I make a diligent effort to give bikes a steady,
stable opening when I see them on the highway...PEG: I agree - getting a gun should probably take as long as, say, getting a passport. Unfortunately, that only plugs up the legal side of the sink. The guy selling them out of a truck behind the multiplex probably wouldn't bat an eye. Not to present that in an
anti-gun control vein (for I know that's an argument that's been used for not toughening laws), simply an observation. Me, I grew up in a house full of guns (dad was a State Trooper); I don't use them myself (I hate loud noises), but there were no mishaps around the house with any of us kids because early on, he taught us respect for the gun - AND he used his training and his brain in the handling of his firearms...except for that time he shot the dresser, but that's a tale for another post...Anyway, time to fly. Catch you all later -- Finder
***BillyD*** snicker.. giggle.. I like the "sample".. -snaps off a five-toed salute- .... ***DOC*** the "mature society" arguement - so whadda we gonna do about Egypt, Japan, India, and China?? Certainly foremost in structured societal longevity, ergo the most mature?? OOps! They are as violent as we are! Gun Control doesn't work in Egypt and India any better than it does here - and the sly devils of the Orient just invented new ways of mass carnage using common household items and their nekkid bodies so they didn't need guns.. And I agree - we discuss symptoms now, not causes. ***PEGGY*** A LOT more folks own cars than guns.. Cars DO kill a LOT more people than guns - just as intentionally. What's the difference between a gun-owner blasting away in the heat of emotion, and a drunk driver plowing through whatever can't get out of the way in a stupor of impairment?? Except the guns will kill a whole lot fewer people.. And the guy who pulls the trigger will be tried as a capital felon and go to jail for life (if not executed) - while the drunk will be tried for vehicular manslaughter, and be back on the road doing the same thing sans license in a year, more or less... ***ALL*** It seems to me it isn't a matter of the tool used - it's a matter of what is condoned and justified - and therefore acceptable - in the majority of individual people, who happen to BE society when taken as a lump sum.. There has always been violence among people - but how much is justified under what circumstances is the critical factor here. Examples: Casualties in War can always be fully justified. Capital Punishment gets murkier - can't be justified in some places, and totally justified in others. Killing in Self Defense is even murkier yet - depends on if Capital Punishment is OK, and how emotional folks get over the circumstances. Mercy Killings?? Whoa! Now THAT is a simmering black void... See what I mean? If you think violence will be elimated, or even reduced, by limiting the tools used, or focussing on a specific set of circumstances, you're missing a whole lot of context that will simply re-direct itself into new tools, and new circumstances. that's all... my brain hurts now..
*SUE* if you really really really can't wait for my review to peek at a piece of my writing, I keep a short article on my webpage which seems germane to the current topic. Check out www.inconnect.com/~wjdennis -- Billy D.
Oooh, okay, somebody hit my buttons. This is more like a rant than a post.... *rant mode on*
Guns. Guns guns guns. The right to bear arms. As I understand it, the purpose of that right was to be able to take a stand against your government, and it's no wonder the founding father's wanted it in there. After all they went through, they didn't want ANY chance that the people would be oppressed through the restriction of weapons.
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But in my teeny little head, well, I don't see a revolution happening any time soon; I don't see a need to own any type of gun to stand against our government. What I do see is a lot of crime being committed with guns. Handguns, shotguns, semi and full automatics, gangs, losers, desperate people, scared people. No one gun or one group of people is the SINGLE problem.
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I get REALLY tired of the 'it's my right to own a gun' and 'it's for recreation' argument. You know what? I live in Alaska. BOATLOADS of people hunt here. It's a major industry. I wouldn't say everyone household has a gun, it's far from that. But it's certainly considerably higher than the national average, and higher than most major metropolises. And we still have crimes with guns. We still have violent crimes (In fact, Anchorage has the largest reported domestic violence per capita - really sad fact). PRIVATE OWNERSHIP OF GUNS DOES NOT GUARANTEE THE PREVENTION OF OR LOWER INCIDENCE OF CRIME!
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Don't get me wrong. You wanna own a gun for hunting? Fine. Like target shooting? No problem. Which is why I advocate....*evil of all evils* ..... gun control. Yes, I know we already have it. No, it's not effective. But, gosh darn it, it should take AT LEAST as long to get a gun as it does to get your income tax refund! It's easier to get a gun than a driver's license. At least for that you have to take a test.
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Why is it in this country that the activities requiring the highest amound of responsibility and level-headedness - like owning a gun or having babies - require so little determination of your qualifications (mental, physical, financial) to undertake that activity? Okay, I'm not gonna go down the whole God-given rights road here. But think about it a bit....
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I'm so tired of hearing the same gun ownership arguments. And to be fair, the gun control ones are pretty stale too. I look at things for balance. To me, for instance, owning a gun should be more difficult than owning a car or a house, because of the intense potential to do damage to other human beings. (yes, cars can damage, but generally that's not by intent). But on the balance they are easier to obtain - not counting the cash, just the process.
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Okay, *rant mode off*. Be careful with those buttons, wouldya?
......Peg
BILL> Hmmm. That wasn't my intended meaning. If it whittled down to that, perhaps I need to revise the post. What I'm getting at is symptoms as opposed to problems. Switzerland is a more mature society, as are England and the countries you mentioned. I don't think this country is ready for private ownership of guns - but try getting any weapons aways from America. The right to bear arms must surely have seemed more appealing when there were only 13 colonies to deal with. Aw, to hell with it - the cold and flu season does not inspire concise or well-reasoned discourse. See you when the fever's down,....
Whoops, that last append should have said, "focusing on guns AS the cure-all or cause-all..."
*DOC* I hope you don't mind if a synthesize a couple points out of your last Stream-of-NetConsciousness post. As your Switzerland reference shows, it's too simplistic to say, No-Guns=Low-Crime-Rate:Guns=High-Crime-Rate. America ain't Japan. Ain't Germany. If you gave everyone in Deutschland a firearm, their culture wouldn't become like ours. If you took away all we Yankee's guns, the killings here wouldn't stop either. Focusing on guns and the cure-all or cause-all, is like arguing how many angels can fit on the tip of a needle, when you should really be threading the thing and sewing up the rend. Ouch, I think I just pricked my finger on that last simile. -- Billy D.
Hmmmm - I think we are approaching lift-off. I'm not an atheist, but my "morals," - scratch that, I really have to draw a line between morals (as what society-at-large tells me is Correct) and ethics (as what I know in my heart is right). Which is all much of a muchness. There's a huge gap between classes, a gap that is swiftly erasing the "-est" of richest and poorest. I wonder whether the Founders didn't have something in mind along the lines of Switzerland, where the population *are* the militia, and in which each home has some sort of firearm(s). Not pistols, necessarily, but weapons with which it is also possible to hunt game (handguns are insufficient to that task, often). In short, everyone has 'em and the crime rate is appallingly low. I think that's also because the people have a healthier awareness of the consequences of what a chunk o' lead can do to a piece of meat, human or otherwise. There also seems to be the strangest disparity between notions of parental responsibility - I know people who have pictures of their kids in their wallets so they can remember what their kids look like; then, there are some of those kids I worked with in South Texas, with whom I had plenty of one-on-one chats about how much they missed their kids: 15, 16 years old, couple of kids of their own back at their parents' house, and desperately not wanting those nippers to grow up like their Old Man. Such circustances and attitudes weren't the norm, of course, but no eyebrows shot upward when the topic arose. Quite honestly, I think we operate in a culture of myth and denial. This is, after all, America, where the lowliest can grow up to be President, right? WE HAVE NO PROBLEMS IN AMERICA - AND IF WE DO, THEY BROUGHT IT ON THEMSELVES. Myth and denial. Lulled into a sense of false security. The poor are not our problem, and our decent, well-adjusted kids can look after themselves, because we are virtuous and God is on our side, and we are busy following the "Christian Work Ethic" and grabbing all we can as He directs,... The rough part is that it isn't even a conscious attitude, for the most part - just a national case of casual, criminal neglect. The US is the kid-nation, Baby Huey, like all the other nations were at some point in history; the timing is such that *this* huge baby has a helluva lot of dangerous toys - we can defend our immaturity to *everyone's* dying breath. That mind-set filters down from the national/social level, to the individual/family level - not *our* problem, mercy no; it's everyone else's problem; *they* can deal with it. Nothing wrong here,... This has become long and bitter - time to go take my effexor. Cheers, Doc
BillyD - BRAVO!! My point, much more clearly said..
**NICOLE** AI-yi-yi-YI! Yes, you -did- mention personal responsibility, often.. as something many people have 'gotten away from' these days (that was the gist I got).. So it made little sense to me that your post conclude with "it's about time we tried something totally new". Why? "New" *Is* this mess.. Let's just get back to what works.. Oh, and cyberpace is a deceptive thing - are you *sure* you are the ONLY teen (really more young adult) on this Board?? NOT. You're just the only one to make it a personal issue. Sure makes it hard to discuss things, when I have to edit out anything that may be misconstrued - and still grit my teeth when I hit "Send". It would be a LOT easier, if I had a shot at clarification before the broadside.. and you'd appologize a lot less... ;-) ... ****DTS**** WhaaaAAAaaat?? You expected SueTheClueless, the *shrug* Queen of "Oh-well" to "figure out" something?? ****FINDER**** Well, you're sure no biker.. hee hee.. worried about gravity and balance.. giggle.. Bikes are rolling gyroscopes - those sorts of problems are 4-wheel stuff: how high the center of gravity is, how much speed it can carry into how sharp a curve.. hee hee.. Convertibles are cool. Hubby has a Triumph Spitfire "fun car".. Lawn-mower engine.. :-) .. But still fun.. And welcome back. -almost forgot that..oops- and _do_ watch for bikes on the road - the life you save may be Mine.. ****BILLYD**** HOW many submissions?!?! Sheesh! And I think it's a GREAT day if I write 1 post, and answer all my e-mail.. Looks like you and Doc are gonna be Major Contenders in the Prolific category this year.. WOW! Makes me feel tired just thinking about it.. So, ummm - when can I read something of yours.. sayyyy, like a HE review??
In this age of sound-bite solutions, I think blaming our current social state on some single factor like child-rearing or godlessness is too simple. I'm not disagreeing that parents need to spend more time with kids (and I know it makes a difference in their behavior), but the idea of a 1950's utopia where parents doled gobs of time in loving child-raising is a figment of Dr. Laura's imagination. And hey, I'm an athiest, but I'll put my morality up against anyone's. No, I think we're dealing with a problem that is at least threefold: MOM--means, opportunity, motive. 1) Means--until 1947, there was no such thing as a strap-over-your-shoulder automatic or semi-automatic weapon. And until the last 10-15 years, even those were hard to get. When the Founders framed the constitution, we were still in the "pour-in-the-powder-and-tamp-the-bullet" era. The Supreme Court has already ruled (in the 1930's) that some weapons are illegal, like a sawed-off shotgun. Plus, I don't think anyone would argue that building one's own atomic bomb is protected by the Second Amendment. I wonder if the authors of the Bill of Rights would have worded that amendment a little differently had they known about AK-47's. 2) Opportunity--we live in an age of missing information. Daily, we're bombarded with so much information, but it's all so narrow. Sex and violence sell, so most information is channelled in their direction. In between, great heaps of important stuff gets left out. And since advertisers now have 12-14 TV minutes per hour, plus radio, plus Internet, plus cable, etc. etc., they take every opportunity they can to skirt giving us the information we need and show only the information they want. 3) Motive--the dispartiy betwixt the richest and poorest is growing, fast approaching the highest in history. Yet because of our interconnected society, those without are constantly reminded of what their missing. They want it. Out of sight, out of mind. In your sight can make you out of your mind. Anyway, I don't claim these three areas represent the whole of this complex problem, only contribute heavily to it, IMHO. -- Billy D.
*FINDER*, yeah, I'm a fellow contestant, trying to get two screenplays ready for shipping by that fast-approaching end-of-June deadline. Good luck to you, the $100,000 would sure come in handy. By the way, June 1st is the entry date for the Writer's Digest competition, and you need only the first fifteen pages for that one. I'm glad you already knew about the Script magazine contest, otherwise I was going to charge you a FINDER's fee. -- Billy D.
Doc: by the way, regarding your search for a cheap readable copy of GENTLEMAN JUNKIE: www.bibliofind.com has several copies @ $15 and one listed @ $9.00. THe bookstores in question can be contacte via email or phone, and they take checks as well as plastic. $9 seems fairly inexpensive (considering it's out of print in all editions). (and I'm not parting with mine). Out here, DTS.
Finder: thanks for the comments, you pretty much summed up what I believe (in the end) is the biggest problem -- people who have children and then expect the kids to raise themselves (so the parents can have more time to have fun). Having children seems like one of those things for which people should be required to get a license. Nicole: Hope you didn't think I was "slamming" you (or anyone else), merely observing an obvious problem and asking for opinions; the problem (as I've said before) with communicating via "post-it" boards (where I can't use italics and underlines for emphasis) is that it is too easy to have someone misconstrue something. Doc: I read your essay/review and thought it was both eloquent and insightful. (by the way -- sorry about the Infoman thing -- thought you & Sue had me figured out way back). Out here, DTS.
FINDER: You seem like a worthy,...well, given some of the goins-on here, I'll say, stout-hearted contestant, so let's cut the frippery, shall we? I **tripple dog dare you**. A cheap readable copy of GENTLEMAN JUNKIE is very alluring, if you find one. ALL: Anyone who wants my views on the current discussion is directed to my review of MEMOS FROM PURGATORY. I have some other, rather inflammatory views, but the gist is in "Current Demons." We simply have to decide what's the State's (or whoever's) responsibility, and what "we" must do as parents. NICOLE: try not to mistake misunderstood for slammed. Cheers, Doc
Jeez, that'll teach me to go away for a scant handful of days...*DTS* - I'm with you in terms of parental responsibility. My two sisters make an interesting case study in contrasts: one invests a great deal of time in her son (both in nurturing and disciplining), and at about two years old, he's already one of the happiest, most well-adjusted and behaved children I've ever seen. The other sister is more self-absorbed, egocentric, who pawns the boys off onthe television when she's too busy and performs little, if any, discipline. One son is already quiet, introverted; the other is, simply put, a little troublemaker, who isn't going to get any better. My big beef with all of it is that if you're too busy for your children, then your priorities must be way out of whack, and the last thing you should probably be entrusted with is the care and nurturing of that child. Or, put bluntly, most Americans don't need the V-chip, just a good swift kick in the tokhes...*DOC* - Oooh, a gauntlet AND a taunt. I feel so... challenged. All we're missing here is a good ol' fashioned double dog dare...*NICOLE* - I got your e-mail. Comments coming tomorrow (Wednesday). Promise. *BILLY D* - As a matter of fact, that would indeed be the KASA/Script magazine contest; the astute observation of a fellow writer/entriant, or just a random tidbit you picked up in your travels? Either way, you win the lollipop (betcha didn't know there were prizes for this sort of thing...) *SUE* - Alas, my road-tripping is done with four wheels, but it IS a convertible, so I get the wind in my hair and sun on my face without having to worry about those silly little things like gravity and my sense of balance...*ALEX* - Whether HE's fiction or non-fiction is a matter of my mood; if I'm looking for something I might hear on the front porch in the middle of summer from a dear Uncle who may or may not be exaggerating just a smidge (such as when he tells me he was a hired gun), I aim for non-fiction; conversely, if I'm sitting there wanting to be awed, thought-provoked or just plain old scared out of my socks, I pick up Deathbird Stories. As for personal faves: "Paladin of the Lost Hour" never fails to bring me to tears - something it shares in concert with the essay HE wrote about his mother's funeral. The name escapes, the tale can never. *PEG* - Greetings from the other side of the states, and welcome out into the open...I'd love to take you up on your most generous offer to see what lurks on the shelves up there (I've never actually gotten anything from Alaska), but I'm down to the point where Web Of The City is the easiet to find of the books I'm missing - however, I'm willing to offer same to you - and to *ALL* for that matter - to keep an eye peeled here in the east for what you're missing (I hit about eight different bookstores regularly, along with a dozen more in my old New York stomping grounds, and have turned up some VERY good discoveries for reasoable prices on a consistant basis; you don't think they call me Finder just because I work on an Apple Performa, now do you?) E-mail me with reasonable wants (the yardstick: paperback Strange Wine? reasonable. Advance publisher's proof copy of Strange Wine? Ah...no.) Yikes - long post. Waaay past my bedtime. Keep safe and I'll catch you onthe flipside. --Finder
Hmm. Thought I mentioned personal responsibility. And, being the only teen here, just had to say something about responsible teenagers. I understand you are not putting us all down as a group, but, you were right, the bad ones still get the most notice. That's sad, really. Now, I don't know if I was getting put down or something, but that's why I hesitate to post on these subjects, just in case, you know. I still remember last time ::shudder:: and do not want to go through that again...anyway, I thought I did say something about responsibility. No one should be excused because of power, position, etc, but we do that on a regular basis...::sigh:: Yes, parents have a role in it too, especially for younger children. On the subject of censorship, producers also have a responsibility. That's why there are warnings when the program starts. I was speaking of things beyond that. Really, DTS, I agree with everything you're saying, I'm just not as articulate about it. Guess I just don't have enough caffine in me yet to say anything clearly. Not putting myself down, just stating a fact.
**DTS** Right On! ... :-) ... I was just expanding the picture beyond the family unit to include the major factor driving this devolution.. The changing, and over-riding needs of business for mobile and maleable employees at will.. But, hey! If you get stuffed, can I watch???
Sue: it's late, and maybe I'm tired, but I'm not sure if you were saying right on or get stuffed. In any case, I'm sure that if the Founding Fathers had had to put up with the noisy, intrusive crap that kids today are able to spit outta their riding machines, old Ben, Tom and George would put a musket ball up their wazooes! (sometimes, when in a kind mood, I have fantasies about taking a hammer to the speakers of every BOOMING car that passes my house and fills the air with vibrations -- when I'm a real nasty mood, I dream about grabbing the kid by the scruff of his neck, throwing him from the vehicle, and fireing a LAW rocket at the entire hunk of junk). (hey, no one's perfect -- and I DO realize the differenc between experiencing such morbid thoughts and acting on them). Anyway, thanks for the input. You go, girl. Out here, DTS.
Nicole, not sure where you arrived at some of your conclusions (had to go back and read my post again, to make sure I didn't actually say or inferr some of the things you said), but I can assure you that I don't condemn all teenagers and immediately think they belong to gangs, do drugs or commit murder. The one crack I did make (about wreckless teenage drivers) usually applies to male teenagers, and is a generalization that (unfortunately) is often true (in fact, the starved for attenion idiots who drive around with their speakers at full capactiy are -- in my experience -- always male). (by the way, invest in companies that manufacture hearing aids -- I'm certain their stock futures will be great). As for any sort of censorship, I've never condoned it. I DO believe that creators (writers, producers, etc.) of television shows, movies, etc., should be responsible in the product they produce. ANd that THEY should be their own enforcers. Unfortunately, greed usually wins out. Nevertheless, I'm certain that the increased amount of gratuitous violence in TV and movies (more often than not, violence of the kind that never shows the results of such actions)plays no small part in the callous behavior of many young people today (there are, of course, many contributing factors, as I mentioned in my last post). ANd not just fictional shows, because the popularity of Fox television shows like COPS (in which real life violence has suddenly become entertainment) or empty-headed chattel like the "talk shows" of JERRY SPRINGER and RICKI LAKE (in which public humiliation and physical abuse are pawed as entertainment) are no longer anomalies -- they make up fifty percent (or more) of the crap that spills out of the tube. Even so, I don't condone censorship. Cause you'll notice (in that first post) I mentioned parents and personal responsibility twice. Even with all this extraneous crap (guns, violent TV, movies, video games, our fast-food, materialistic culture, etc.) contributing to the hollowing out of our younger generations, I still believe that (with the exception of those genetic anomalies mentioned earlier)at the end of the day, the people who are most responsible are the parents. They have the power to say no. To turn off the boob-tube baby-sitter and give their time to a developing mind. To take an errant child in hand and give him or her the attention that is needed. To set an example by not drinking and driving, etc., etc., etc. But too many Baby Boomers (like many of their parents before them) have decided to use the easy way out and put the blame on any and every thing else. But I'm raving again. I'd rather hear other people's opinions and thoughts (and, in any case, Nicole, I know there are plenty of good, level-headed teenagers and twenty-somethings -- unfortunately, the rise in numbers of the other kind is a problem that gets more attention. ANd, as I said before, in America, the number of youths commiting such atrocities as the one in Oregon (and Kentucky, Miss., KY., PA., etc) has become as regular as the seasons. Scary. Out here, DTS.
**NICOLE** How about trying something *really* OLD - personal responsibility and self-sacrifice for the good others? Seems to be the theme of most religious theologies.. **DTS** It makes great rhetoric to champion Individual Rights - very popular with folks who don't seem to tumble to the connection between unfettered "personal" rights and the anarchy of Might Makes Rights - but it was never the intention of the Founding Fathers to promote the rights of the individual over the good of society; merely to create checks and balances to maximize both, and minimize abuse by either. Seems that we are finally achieving those paramount individual "rights"... If we don't notice that Business has more rights than individuals, has more power than individuals, has no conscience, and is the driving force (to serve their bottom lines) behind most changes in this century. Gee - I don't have a CLUE what the problem is.. But don't try to build ANYTHING on *your* property that doesn't strictly conform to law and ordinance - - unless you are a corporation - and then it is your right to make a profit.. Even if it plows under wetlands, and destroys virgin forest.. GEEZ - I wish I *was* clueless!
DTS, gotta respond here. First of all, not all teenagers are raving, drug-using heathens. I think I'm pretty decent, anyway. Doc can back me up on that one, can't you? Never been in a gang, never used drugs, none of that. Anyway, I refer you to the transcript of HE's last appearance on Politically Incorrect, assuming it comes up. HE made some really good points about personal responsibility instead of shifting blame to the media, and I really agree with that. We are becoming a gun culture, and there doesn't seem to be any stopping it, at least with the current methods. Personal responsibility is really missing these days. Take the NRA's position on this. They see no problems with guns, and their existance has caused problems with regulating firearms. They refuse to acknowledge that guns are there to kill people. Shifting blame. They blame T.V and shows like South Park. I remember about a year back some show, something with the name "Butthead" in it, they lit things and chanted "Fire! Fire!" Now, out of all those kids that watch the show, one sets fire to something. One kid, perhaps two, my memory is fogged. Anyway, instead of blaming the children for it, they shift it to this T.V program that many kids watch. Now, in my opinion, this is where censorship begins. If one or two people can't handle something, then that's their problem. Don't deprive the rest of us. I am way off track now, and I could rant about this for days, but you see (I hope) what I'm getting at. Before we can start reforming our country, we have to do what other nations have done and put the blame back where it belongs, instead of shifting it to the closest target. I think, that if we keep going in this direction, mass censorship is inevitable. Ever read Faranheit 451? We are headed in that direction, and it's about time we tried something totally new.
PEGGY - - - Well, I got the old Heave Ho... See ya in 2 - 3 hours. :-)
*Sue* - Lady I tried.... But couldn't get it to work from our laptop. (the laptop is networked to the desktop and actually uses the modem connection through there. My hubby chalked it up to slow access times, it being 5 pm and hi traffice times. But me I figure there's other problems, something far more devious trying to prevent me from having any intelligent discourse with anyone about Ellison.....)
I'll check back later when I can use the desktop. Sorry I missed you, maybe tomorrow??
Peg