The Ellison Bulletin Board

Comments Archive - 05/17/96 to 06/19/96

Rick Wyatt (webmaster@harlanellison.com) Wed Jun 19 23:38:06 1996
PLEASE READ:

Webderland will probably be unavailable at www.snider.net within a few days. I have the mirror set up but I can't do the comments page there yet!

My local server (crl.com) does not support CGIs. All I need is a place to run the comments page from. It needs to have a c compiler and support cgis (most likely in the form of allowing filenames with the extension .cgi in home directories). I need only FTP access to this directory, unless you are willing to put a new file in there once a month when I archive... If you know of a place where the comments page can live, please e-mail me or post here. Otherwise by this weekend we probably won't have a comments page, or at best I will never be able to archive the page again.

Thanks for reading this, and enjoy the comments while they last!

Charles Morgan (cem@flex.net) Wed Jun 19 17:19:58 1996
Don' you hate hitting the return key instead of the tab key when posting a message?

Boy, dive into some boxes for a week and messages out the yin/yang show up. Not much to say but a quick howdy (and what is this about a glass?) adnd I hope all of you going to the Con have a safe trip and enjoy yourselves. Some of us have to stay at home and juggle more stuff than they wish.
So long for now.

Charles Morgan Wed Jun 19 17:16:14 1996

Kris(ten) L. Homyk (if72@jove.acs.unt.edu) Wed Jun 19 17:14:35 1996
(Chewing my Angry Bubblegum and eatin' that rainbow stew...)
No, WM, you are not alone to tell the tale. We're here, we're just tired and jealous of Sue and so we're sulking in a corner.
Just Kidding, SUE! But you know, if you were so thrilled to touch a personally signed letter from HE, what about my personally signed book, the autograph of which includes thanks, etc. for my mail to HE? There, that's it, my secret is out. Are you happy now?
--KRIS (who is enormously jealous that Sue is there and I am stuck here, with eight-hour days and no end in sight. *sigh*)

Sue Luesse (..Off The Isles of Langerhorn (jaluesse@htonline.com)) Wed Jun 19 16:28:47 1996

Not quite alone WolfMistress.. I'm not really dead yet, Really I'm not.. I'll be better tomorrow.. I promise I will.. I'm feeling better already.. (appologies to the Monty Python gang)

Random synapse firing a spark in the dark of the mind - That title bummed me the first time I read the story. You see, in the story the Isles of Langerhorn are where the intrepid hero found his 'soul' buried - and in Real Life, my Isles of Langerhorn went belly up and died some time ago, which is why I am diabetic today... {8-0 Which causes some wondering and a little worrying about whether my soul went with it and the Song The Zombie Sang should be my signature piece, or it is just another unfounded co-incidence.. (;-)

I'm in the last stages of cutting down 'stuff to take' into a size that fits on the bikes. Umm, do I really NEED a WHOLE new outfit for every day?? Maybe just clean underwear and socks.. Not taking any printed matter (since I should be coming home with plenty), and will be wearing the bike boots the whole time (shoes are unbelievably nasty to pack). Maybe my beloved old Dr. Scholls one-buckle strap sandals.. For those worried they might not be able to spot me in a red Seal-a-Meal rainsuit (which covers everything but my face), not to worry. The purple leather is worn _underneath_ the cocoon, and will be what is seen indoors (we leave the wet nasties somewhere to dry).

*Strange convergences* While reading through the ChiComCon guest list (waiting for the map and directions to print out), I spotted a familiar name on the guest list. Now don't get me wrong, if we know Somebody, it is purely accidental, and probably due to having known them when they were Nobody, before they morphed into a Somebody. But there it was. I was kind of excited that it might be one and the same from the old Bag End days at North Campus Co-op (how many HE fan writers of the same name can there be?). And then I remembered that the last time I saw him, he was towing his beloved blue Barracuda out of my driveway (with a blown engine) after entrusting it to our care while he was in Europe - and that act of trust was to show there were no hard feelings after I helped set up the worst blind date of his life.. But he did write to HE, and let me touch the signed letter he received, So blessings upon him.

Paul - if it really is you, and you're on the net, I know you're lurking around every bit of Ellisonia on the Net, and reading this.. Hope you're still as forgiving and open-hearted as ever, and we run into each other at the Con. Often wondered if you 'made it'.. Hoped you did.

We're leaving tomorrow morning early - or tonight late - depending on how the weather looks. Right now, there seems to be a window of 'dry' between here and Chicago, and I really HATE the rainsuit.

See you all when we get back. Hope it's not too much of an adventure, or too interesting (remember the Chinese curse: May you live in interesting times.)

Try High - Fly Straight - Drive Safe

Wed Jun 19 15:05:42 1996
*Ishmael* Yes, I do know how to spell. I'm a dyslexic typist, tho. Just waiting for something to float to the surface....

WolfMistress (Adrift....) Wed Jun 19 14:56:05 1996
That's it. You've all drowned, and I alone remain to tell somebody. Just call me Ishmeal....

Sue Luesse (Floating Face Down In Natures Swimming Pool) Tue Jun 18 13:57:08 1996

Sigh.. So wet out there, I have to throw the dogs bodily out the back door to encourage them to do their 'duty' - and feel a little guilty about it. They slosh out to high ground, do their thing, and doggie-paddle back. {;) I keep thinking it's like forcing a child to potty on an overflowing toilet..

Rick - The 2 cents worth is noted. I promise to mention Webderland, and not embarass you (but I can still embarass me, right??) at the ComicCon.. heh,heh.. };-)~

Gern - Good to see you on the Board.

Shaz - Well!! Ask, and ye shall receive!! Good Job. And I sure am glad I encouraged you to 'bore' us with yet another take on At The Mouse Circus. WolfMistress - Thanks for the information re: Jim Hess. My server doesn't 'do' compuserve. Found that out trying to get the American Motorcycle Association (they were sending duplicates of EVERYTHING snail-mail, since Joe and I are both members, and I wanted to let them know they could stop - please.) Ended up having to call an 800 number I found instead. I promise not to Rant about closed, proprietary systems , and the Bill Gates knowck-offs that see profits for themselves in every keystroke on the Net (and it is REALLY an effort).

Charles - I haven't decided if you are still looking for that glass, or have found it (and still putting it to use..).

Jason - Be Good! (we miss ya)

And for all the rest of you (she says - squinting into the swirls of electrons passing, that don't make pit stops) Hi There!

All this rain is giving me a 'shut-in' mentallity.. Time to do Real Life stuff. There's always some kind of trouble I can get into..

Try High - Fly Straight - Drive Safe

WolfMistress (Using Cruise Control In The Fast Lane of the Red Queen's Race...) Tue Jun 18 08:54:14 1996
Greetings, One & All -- The following was received from *Jim Hess* who asked me to pass it on. His new e-mail is:

104656.765@compuserve.com

He has wants to hear from us! He is alive and well, and equipped to handle the acursed weather. Remember him mentioning his 28-foot sailboat? Well, in the past 24 hours here in Southern Wisconsin, we have had *7 inches* of rain!!!

If we're really extra-special nice (grovel, grovel), maybe he'll let us charter it as the new Ark..... More later as time permits.

>Hello.

>Remember me? The lively pain in the ass from Webderland? Well, I am back. >Sort of. For some irrational, incomprehensible reason I can't get to
>Webderland.

>So would you kindly tell Rick Wyatt and Co. that I am around and they can
>lob e-mail in my general direction in care of this address until such time
>I get back to Webderland and commence with my usual irritating manner?
>Thanks.

>Jim Hess
>(formerly of James.Hess@colorado.edu)

Shaz (endnote on At The Mouse Circus) Tue Jun 18 07:26:56 1996
Speaking of the consumption of the car scene, I realized after I had
logged offline that the woman having sex with the car is probably a
parallel to nuns in the Catholic church who are "married" to Christ.

keegan Mon Jun 17 20:59:07 1996
Well expressed, Shaz! I had sort of the same leanings but was far too chicken (and lazy) to sort through them and put them into a coherent form. Your take on the consuming of the car as communion; the car as an altar of materialism makes a lot of sense. Story's a little more concrete for me now. Thanks for taking the time! Enjoy your reading.

Shaz (remco@cas.et.tudelft.nl & psyco4@jetson.uh.edu) Mon Jun 17 19:14:31 1996
Just got through the "An Edge in My Voice" essays in the new WW book.
Got the book Saturday (not bad--only took the book store 2 weeks to
get it here from America) and have been spending way too much time
reading it. I'm like that with a new good book: I can't seem to put
it down.

Shaz (correction to preceding essay (remco@cas.et.tudelft.nl) Mon Jun 17 19:06:21 1996
It should read "THROW out your aspirin bottles" (not through).
It's 2 a.m. in Holland--give me a break.

Shaz (Just an ordinary day AT THE MOUSE CIRCUS) Mon Jun 17 19:00:46 1996
Ok, folks, through out the aspirin bottles: here's my long-awaited
expose of AT THE MOUSE CIRCUS.

First to the basic concept: the emptiness that is left when you realize that you've sacrificed your soul (in Charlie's case, through prostitution), indeed wasted your life, for a god (the almighty CADILLAC--the pinnacle of social status in Charlie's mind) that turned out to be less fulfilling than your dream promised.
In DEATHBIRD STORIES, the quote accompanying this story is as follows:
"This is what happens when a black man worships a white god."
The white god, of course, is a material object (for Charlie, a silver
Cadillac) that symbolizes social status and thus success. The reason the
god is white, of course, is that it exists in a society where for the most part the definition of success (material wealth, social status, etc.) has been formed by white men (yes, mostly men, not women). So for those of you wondering about that quote, there it is in brief.
Isn't it interesting that Charlie finances his dream machine depositing
sperm into fat WHITE (do we sense a feeling that the white population is fat with wealth compared to the black population in the US?) women?
The title, "At the Mouse Circus", as well as Charlie's perception that
he is a little white mouse who can't see his treadmill show that Charlie at some level understands that he is at the mercy of a predetermined maze (i.e. the uneven playing field of opportunity in society for blacks as opposed to whites) in which he can't figure out the solution (just as
Billy Batson can't figure out the rest of S-H-A-Z-...). He can't see how
to reach that illusive pot of gold at the end of the rainbow.
It all starts, of course, when his mother tells him a fairytale (you can
be anything you want to be as long as you are good and do) without any realistic map complete with set of rules which apply to blacks who are on an uneven playing field.
Selling himself for a cheap imitation of fullfillment (O.K., a Cadillac
isn't very cheap in the monetary sense, but in the sense of soul fulfillment...) , Charlie feels constantly dirty.
And, skipping Charlie's adventure into the land of the dinosaurs (proving
that man can tarnish and kill anything he touches without thought), we get
to Charlie finally seeing his dream...the devouring of his car/god.
The people devouring Charlie's cadillac represent supplicants taking of the
body of their god (like when you eat that little bread thingy at church
to "take of the body of Christ" then gulp down a thimble-sized portion of grape juice masquerading as Christ's blood)...it is the culmination of consumerism. The woman having sex with the car just goes to show
all those advertisements using scantily clad gravity-challenged (very
skinny bodies--very big breasts) women to sell overpriced cars (penis
extensions) to gullible men may just have been on to something.
With the consumption of the car, Charlie was "dead of dreams". Of course
he was--his dream fell short of its promised fulfillment...his soul
lay empty.
Throughout this story, Charlie asks "What time is it?" (Remember the
line "Wasted, he had done time."?)
"...as the God of Time so aptly put it, 'It's later than you think'"
(Deathbird Stories, Introduction)

GERN B. (rastelec@northland.lib.mi.us) Mon Jun 17 18:10:56 1996
Hello,
I've been a fan of Harlen Ellisons for about 17 years, this writer has been the one who opened my inner grotto wide to myself to face. Not being unduly narrsisstic I was amazed ( at such a young age ) that other people felt the same as I did. I mean I can relate to the conveied feelings of Mr. Ellison in the comments at the bottom of the picture at the end of THE MAN WHO WAS HEAVILY INTO REVENGE. Who could'nt be?
I felt elation yet had a sort of tunnel vision when I heard that my personal character builder Paul Harding had died, the guy was a pain in the keester yet also a part of my identity, so when he passed so did a part of me.
Anyway I'm very new to the web and was particularly happy when I stumbled onto this board, and, as suggested by Sue, am wading in. Hell two things that I like to do at the same time,,,wade and discuss stories by the author who was the first on the scene of my awakinging.
Any comments or info that would get me up to steam here would be greatly appreciated
Gern

Rick Mon Jun 17 14:27:07 1996
Just my two cents - the White Wolf thing in their magazine slamming Ellison was already ancient history when I started this site...it was a comment by a magazine writer, HE was given plenty of space to respond, and given the source and timeframe I doubt it represents a schism at WW or an inconsistency.

Sue Luesse (Cursing the RainGod (jaluesse@htonline.com)) Mon Jun 17 12:23:36 1996

Is it just me, or should I be putting in a reservation for the Ark?? 4 inches of septic field overload, and still coming down hard.. Just make my life easy, willya.. (;-) Weather Channel is predicitng more of the same throughout our travel time to Chicago, so cancel the Jimi-Hendrix-Acid-Rock-Purple-Leather-Jacket with the 3 ft. fringe, and say hello to red-rainsuit that looks like someone Seal-a-Mealed me.. That should give us a finely honed 'edge' by the time we get to the ComicCon.. >:-( Nothing like a half drowned, and totally discomforted biker to generate 'attitude'.. ;-p

Kris(ten) - If my quirky memory serves me right, Jeff promised to e-mail details to those interested. I'm DEFINATELY on that list, and eagerly awaiting receipt of 'The Goods'.. Think I might be in the right frame of mind to put them to good use at ComicCon, should the opportunity present itself (and possibly the right frame of mind to MAKE that opportunity happen, if it doesn't fall into my lap quickly..).. I am a firm believer in the positive power of bitching.. :)

Rick - checked out (and bookmarked, just in case) the mirror site. Bummer.. (:-( That it should even have to be considered... Always something, isn't it?.. Hope it works out for Scott. Let him know his time, expertise, and dedication to this Board has been noted and appreciated. Not much consolation for a guy possibly out of work - but the best I can do..

Wish I had time for more, but this will have to suffice for now..

Try High - Fly Straight - Drive Safe

WolfMistress (Pouring Tea on The Paingod....) Mon Jun 17 11:19:11 1996
Kris(ten) - I just scrolled even further back, and there's a posting from Mr. Cisneros that goes into a little more depth about White Wolf Magazine and how Chris MacCubbin slammed HE for everything from "world hunger to the Ebola virus epidemic." (Direct quote).

There may be more even further back, but I don't think so. Those 2 postings are enough to get the point across. White Wolf is chewing itself to death, if you ask me. And I will *certainly* *abolutely* *positively* allow myself to be classified as one of Harlan's "rabid" appreciators!!!

We just do it with more finesse - panache is a good word....

WolfMistress (Having Morning Tea with The Paingod....) Mon Jun 17 10:49:28 1996
Yo, Kris(ten)! - Just a quickie seeing as how I am swamped here at work, but would like to lead you in the right direction.

If you can scroll backward through the Comments Postings, go back to the one from Jeff Cisneros, dated Jun 13 - wherein he explains just what so of outfit White Wolf *really* is!

More later, if I can. It's gonna be one of those days where some unsuspecting soul is gonna get my sharp Edge, sooner or later. My backup person is out this week; we've had 4 inches of rain overnight with more on the way, and somehow, I have to make business phone calls to PA about Mom's estate *while* working!

I'm gonna chew somebody's liver before the day is out, just watch me! ;-) Hope that helps, Kris(ten).

Kris(ten) L. Homyk (if72@jove.acs.unt.edu (still recovering from bad hand)) Mon Jun 17 10:09:51 1996
Hey Somebody! WM and other people have brought it up, but nobody has completely talked about it -- what is THIS I hear about white wolf talkin' trash about Harlan? What is THIS I hear about White Wolf's internal strife? I didn't even know WW had a "magazine(?)". Somebody, anybody, 'splain to me, please!

The more I understand the more trouble I can make. *grin*

Barney Dannelke (Eidolon and on and on) (dannelke01@enter.net) Mon Jun 17 07:03:48 1996
addendumb: scratch one of those "on the younger"'s and I think that sentence will parce. Also, I should have mentioned the NASFIC books have a Harlan bio and great recent short story, the name of which suddenly escapes me. So we're talking obscure Ellison appearance one for one trade. I could have been clearer the 1st time. Can't wait till Mr. Gates puts out a smart checker.
Be good or at least be good for something.

Barney Dannelke (the boy with the horizontal mind) (dannelke01@enter.net) Sun Jun 16 23:09:53 1996
The subtitle ref. is from "Sex Gang" in case somebody wondered. By the way, this isn't exactly common knowledge but Larry Niven's "Man of Steel, Woman of Kleenex" essay ad absurdem got a Major assist by Harlan so your collection just aint complete unless...
Keegan: Regarding HERC and Harlan selling his books; He doesn't actually compete with bookstores when he does this as these are books that are either out of print entirely and have been remaindered and re-purchased privately by Harlan on a "right of 1st refusal" basis or editions which have been superceded by more recent editions in different form or from different publishers. Discounts offered by HERC on forthcoming releases probably don't affect Harlan's royalty one way or the other. On the other hand, (he had a wart) most stuff from HERC is signed so there is that.
Yes, it's the same Pinkwater from NPR. The same wonderful spherically challenged [his term] person who gave us "Fat Men From Outer Space" and "I Was A Second Grade Werewolf". The same wonderfully demented person who gave the world "Lizard Music" and "The Snarkout Boys and the Avacodo of Death". Check it out. Many snaps. 6 thumbs up.
Sue! Great story!!! I can't help thinking about the O Henry story about the tramp who has to eat a number of Thanksgiving dinners in order to keep up appearances and be polite and ends up passing out in front of his best benefactor from being overstuffed. If I have distorted this it's because I read it in 5th grade. I don't usually feel "not Jewish" unless I've been around Harlan all day and then he starts to do schtick. Napolean meets Henny Youngmen. But I mean that in a good way. When Julie Schwartz calls him a mensch it seems Much more natural. I also sort of think it's a word more appropriatly bestowed on the younger by the older on the younger. I grew up in Wisconsin with the cast of "Fargo". What do I know.
General: I have a couple of extra NASFIC program books with Whelan cover. If somebody snags a couple of extra program books I'd love to trade. We each pay are own postage. E-mail me on the side if this works for anybody. Have fun one and all!

Sue Luese (Cleaning up after the Prowler In The City) Sun Jun 16 20:39:53 1996

'Happy Daddy Day' to all you Daddies. And to all you Mommies, leave the mess for tomorrow to clean up.. I am. And to all you 'kids' (of any age), give your Mom a hand before you cut and run next time.. Love family togetherness. Hate the clean-up.

Oi! Barney! - I'll tell you a secret (well, not so very secret now). I lived in Oceanside NY the first five years of my life. At the time, the place boasted more synagogues per square mile than Jerusalem, and the only school system in America that gave Jewish Holidays off as vacation time for kids. I was spoiled rotten as the only child in a neighborhood of retirees. I didn't know it then, but we were the only Goys.. So for a very long time, I thought 'schiksa' was a term of endearment (like a Specially Chosen). When I was in college (at U. of Michigan) there was a sizeable student population of jewish persuasion from NYC. A lot of the jewish guys got heavy pressure from their Moms to 'find a nice jewish girl' - and inspiration struck.. I began a Rent-a-Jewess service.. The guys would write home they were dating a 'nice jewish girl', Momma would be thrilled to send a 'little extra - to take good care of' said 'nice jewish girl', and everyone was happy. Once a semester, I would line up a series of reservations at a good restaurant, and be the 'nice jewish girl' for a dinner with my male jewish friends and their parents. I looked the part, had the accent, and knew the neighborhoods.. I 'passed'.. As the guys found Real girlfriends, they would write home we had 'broken up'. What a Racket!! If the parents knew, they never let on. Though I did get a very nice gift from the Father of one of the guys after we had 'broken up', with a note that read "Chutzpah should be rewarded"..

So, I'm not jewish (blame my mother for it), but no reason you can't be Specially Chosen.. Hard to shake those early formative years.. When I first started reading HE, and caught the drift of his 'only Jew in the Midwest' background - I chuckled.. Kinda like the Brownies switched the two of us at birth..

As to the whole Complainer Thing - part of those jewish roots I was grafted into was the High Art of Kvetching and Kibbutzing (bitching, and giving unsolicited advice). While those traits are currently politically incorrect in our 'nice' society - they are very useful in maintaining standards. Like everything else, it is how people choose to use that gives value - there is no intrinsic 'right', 'wrong', 'good', or 'bad' to anything. Determining the precise point where a 'good' use becomes a 'bad' use is what theology, philosophy, and jurisprudence is all about.

I look forward to the ComicCon. If I should meet HE, Great! And if I don't - so what changed? I am a very happy, secure nobody. We leave Thursday, and I'll give a short report (which will still be too long) when we get back.

Try High - Fly Straight - Drive Safe

Kris(ten) L. Homyk (if72@jove.acs.unt.edu) Sun Jun 16 19:21:42 1996
Hey all, boy-- you're gone for a weekend and all hell breaks loose...I think everybody saw WolfMistress being nice to me, so I can prove itin court now, if it's necessary. *grin* Nice to hear fromthe non-angry you, WM --most of us nasty little people have one of those sides too. I like to think that people like me and your mom and harlan (who wrote an entire article on magazine labels, let's not forget) do some great good in the world by reminding people that,as they say, "God is in the details." To atheists, that simply means that the details are important -- but people forget that. Details make the whole, though.
Allow me, WM, to acquaint you with Harlan's most famous (and silliest, at times) rant -- he hates the nickname "sci-fi" and pronounces it "skiffy" as in, "if you like peanut butter, you'll love skiffy." I am thankful to hear that you've gained some appreciation for the troublemakers in this world. We thankyou and offer our hands in friendship, me in particular.
JASON: Dear, Jason...my commentary about punching anyone in the nose who doesn't like harlan was entirely unrelated to the revenge argument, and were i not in such good humor lately, i would resent your making the connection...I was simply speaking QUITE metaphorically...It was a JOKE...I could just as easily have said spit on them, or run them over with the nearest piece of heavy machinery. This reminds me of the time thst I had a teacher who read a story of mine in class in called it a magnificent allegory...even though it was written simply to satisfy her bullshit assignment...*sigh* no hard feelings, jas...
Sue: sounds like you have lots of good news lately -- congradualtions on all of it...
i'm very sorry if there were lots of typos and ugliness in this note, but i'm trying to type with on hand boundup due to recent tendonitus...the things i do for you people...*grin*

Rick Wyatt (webmaster@harlanellison.com) Sun Jun 16 11:51:31 1996
Strange things afoot at snider.net, people - this message is a cautionary one.

The internet provider at snider/tce (snider telecom) decided to disassociate itself from the bulletin board/entertainment service (the "tce" part), and several people are now out on the street. Our webmaster Scott is also locked out of his office and the computer room, but hasn't been canned - YET.

Needless to say, since Webderland exists at Scott's sufferance and with his aid, our days here may be limited. If nothing else my ability to fix things like the comments page and to keep the animated GIFs working will be severely curtailed. I have set up a mirror for Webderland at:

http://harlanellison.com

...and will be working on converting it into workable form. The comments page will still live here, for now, until I can figure out a way to get it working on my menagerie server.

I apologize for any trouble this may cause you, and I will do my best to make sure all pages here get a referral to the new site if Webderland moves. I would prefer that it live at www.menagerie.net anyway, as that is *MY* server and I won't have to worry about crap like this.

I'll let you know more as I know more - for now, enjoy ComicCon and be sure and mention you heard about it on Webderland!

keegan Sun Jun 16 11:28:24 1996
Hey, Barney- Is that the Pinkwater who does commentary for Public Radio? Just curious...

Another question: Does Harlan make more money on a book purchased from HERC rather than from one's friendly local bookstore? Like to see him earn as much as possible...

Sue- haven't forgotten ya. A little crazier here than anticipated. Glad to hear your vehicles are up and running again!

Sun Jun 16 09:17:41 1996
i read that zach morrison thing between him and someone named amber....i thought that was really sweet

valarie Sun Jun 16 09:12:39 1996

Barney Dannelke (Jerkwater Town on the Edge of Forever) (dannelke01@enter.net) Sun Jun 16 01:34:25 1996
Wolfmistress: My belated condolences. I didn't want to seem cold but I'm no good at what to say regarding losses. All I've figured out is that it's a process that can take years to work thru and if the feelings were mixed it's even longer. Perservere.
Sue: It's no exclusive club and it's no footrace. I take it you're meeting Harlan for the 1st time. I envy you. I would love to meet people I admire for the 1st time over and over again. There's a short story idea.
The word mensch occured to me but not being Jewish I always thought it was odd/presumptuous to confer on others. But yes, he certainly is.
Folks: I can't make the city of the big shoulders gig so 2 requests... Please somebody post info regarding tapes of main events (Harlan related) address/prices etc. Also,any tapes audio or video that supplant/supercede what the con does I would be very interested in. Finally, anybody who reads this please tell Harlan I said hello. That goes double for Susan. If more then 5 people do it it will make a great running joke. I want to be ubiquitous in my abscence!
Rick: Thanks for posting the Stoker award info. Was this taped? I guess I should just email them myself.
Folks again: [Harlan trivia] I'm reading "Gorbel" by D.M. Pinkwater which is about a cranky old man from the "Old Country" who hates television and insuates himself on a family he may (or may not) be related to. He makes the nephew answer vocabulary questions before bestowing favors. The old man seemed oddly familiar and lo and behold, I turn to the dedication page and it's dedicated to Harlan Ellison "who keeps on trying." Hah!!

Shhhhue Sun Jun 16 00:18:22 1996

Sorry Jason. It was YOUR quote of Michael Crichton I was thinking of..
Barney - Guess I really enjoyed your point of view, wanted to give you credit for *everything*..

ZZZZZZsnorkZZschrftZZZZZ

Sue Luesse (Pouting is REALLY boring...) Sun Jun 16 00:04:45 1996

Guess I can put off sleep for another 'few' minutes.

Charles - thanks for the input on At The Mouse Circus. So far, we all agree that we each have our personal brand of confusion with regard to that story (and to the ONE bozo who still thinks they have the only true take on it - phhhttttp! ;)~ ).

BTW - Condolences go to WolfMistress on the death of her Mother. My best buds' hubby (Dale) is finally at home (with an oxygen tank, and enough pain killers to make a fortune on the street) feeling MUCH more 'comfortable' spending what time he has with family and friends. He says, "I don't even KNOW that guy, and I'm NOT DEAD YET..." But he did appreciate the sentiment. (Think he makes a good HE fan?? He's reading my copy of Deathbird Stories, and thinks it is a "stitch".)

My bike is back, better than ever. Helps when your mechanic is also a 'customizer', and a good buddy.. Not only is the gas leak fixed, but the tank is mysteriously shiny, larger, and a different shade of black.. I'm told I no longer have to stop for gas every 100 miles (double that now), and 'the bore' is twice what it used to be, due to a 'reaming' (which, in cager (car) talk, means the effective horsepower was doubled by enlarging the engine cylinders). As a HE fan, it tickled me that 'reaming' a 'bore' generated improved performance.. 8) Took it for a test run (just half a day riding), and it is such an amazing improvement, I've stopped talking about getting a bigger bike for the long trips. Happy, Happy, Joy, Joy...Rapture and Bliss! Now I'm REALLY looking forward to *riding* to Chicago.. Hey, simple minds - simple pleasures.. :)

The pile-of-crap Escort is also back from the shop. They swore the tank was rusted out (though there was no rust visible, and there was no leak until AFTER they replace the fuel pump located in the gas tank..). We swore back, and left it parked across their bay doors leaking gas.. They *discovered*, when they moved it, there were gaskets missing (??), and 'take care of it for free'... It is a rolling pile-of-crap sans gas leak again (and Pullease God don't let them come back..).

It is very interesting to hear so much 'testimony' for HE. Barney's quote (from I forgot who) about HE fans going ballistic in his defense sounds a lot like sour grapes to me. Jealousy is a strange beastie.. I hear people say, "Truth hurts", a lot - when they aren't so much telling the truth, as trying to hurt. I don't believe the truth hurts. I think the lies exposed by the truth hurt the pride, ego, and emotions of those that told/believed the lies. No prophet is welcome in his own land, the Good Book says.. Seems HE could be a Poster Child for that cause.

I think I ran out of my 'few minutes'.. Fathers' Day tomorrow, with special 'family' doin's (in addition to regular weekend stuff) means 'no rest for the wicked', so I better get it while I can.

Try High - Fly Straight - Drive Safe

Sue Luesse (jaluesse@htonline.com) Sat Jun 15 21:01:45 1996

GEEEEeeeezzzz!!!... {8- 0 Guess I really AM a nobody.. No *personal* nothin' to add... No testimonials... This better be one **HELL** of a ComicCon, or I'll be cast out into Lurker Limbo... [;-)~

Does thinking the guy is a mensch count? Is there an fine print clause for those who "not having seen, still have believed"? Yikes! What size boots does HE wear, Rick?? I get the feeling it's going to TAKE something to stay in this club.. ;)

Anyone else just a schlub, like me?

I'm gonna go pout. Five days to ComicCon, and counting down...

Try High - Fly Straight - Drive Safe

keegan (happy shatterday morning, folks!) Sat Jun 15 10:15:16 1996
Well, I'll add to the roar of testimonials regarding Harlan's generosity and kindness. After finding Webderland, I learned that Harlan had a fondness for a certain candy bar (Clarks, to which he wrote an ode of sorts in "Jeffty is Five"). Harlan could not procure them and thought they were out of production. I saw some on the shelf of our friendly, local gas 'n'gulp and informed the webmaster of this page that I was willing to hook Harlan up. I expected that HE wouldn't want to be bothered with the grizzly details of UPS, especially since it would divulge his location to yet another "fan". Imagine my surprise one night as I sat at dinner with a mouthful of black-bean soup, hearing my husband answer the phone and say, "Well, yes, Mr. Ellison, she IS here. I'll put her right on".

My heart jumped. I was tounge-tied. Harlan was great. He said Rick told him I had Clark bars and that he was indeed interested in them. He gave me his home address and made me SWEAR never to divulge it to a single soul. I offered to swear on the lives of my children. He declined, saying, "Oh, no. Now we're getting a little creepy." For the record, I destroyed the address as soon as I sent the package. If I ever really need to reach Harlan, I'm sure I can get a message to him through HERC. The personal, kind service of Susan Ellison on behalf of that organization deserves mention, too. So rare to find such as that in business ventures these days.

I was thrilled by my brush with Harlan's celebrity. It was enough reward for me that I could thank him personally for his work, but Harlan showed his generosity by INSISTING on returning the favor somehow. I refused to take cash. He offered me books. How could I refuse THAT? I graciously accepted and received two books, one of which was "Memos From Purgatory". It was signed-"To Lauri Keegan, with thanks for the old Clark Bars". I treasure it (not to mention that the book itself really got my juices flowing, being one who works with young people).

Barney's right, the Enemies of Ellison are just the whine of sour grapes in the face of vintage humanity. Harlan is a human being with all the pros and cons that state carries. I don't want to seem like I'm bragging about things. I'm merely speaking up to say that I've experienced Harlan's kindness. I suspect that if I behave myself, I'll never experience his wrath. That's plenty for me......

Barney Dannelke (From A to Z in the Capsicum Alphabet) (dannelke01@enter.net) Fri Jun 14 23:29:13 1996
[mini-testimonial] I've known Harlan for 19 years and have seen him on both good days and bad and while I would never shine people on by saying that he is always pleasant (or even consistant) I will say that I have NEVER seen him use excessive force in defending himself or his friends (I include the Charles Platt "incident" which I witnessed) nor have I ever seen or heard of him launching first. His notion that revenge is as indispensible as oxygen sometimes puts him in situations that I would try to avoid is simply a reflection of where you decide to draw the line. Would you like that shit sandwich with or without crusts? On the other hand, I could fill this entire forum up with anecdotes of kindnesses acknowledged and favors returned in spades. I've watched Harlan at signings that have gone on for 6 hours excercise more restraint then Mother Theresa on Prozac. Buttonhole any professional in Science Fiction or Fantasy and they will tell you stories of kindness and courtesy above and beyond. What suprises me these days is how amazed people are when they find it out. Face it, Enemies of Ellison was a WEAK attempt at character assassination. 40 years writing and I doubt there membership was more then a dozen. How many people de-lurked last month? Rick? 700? 1,000? What's HERC's membership? 1500+ ? If I could go thru life accruing that kind of friend to enemy ratio I'd be a happy guy. End of maudlin sermon.
Just to prove that I think pissing into strong winds and dodging ought to be an olympic sport I'm going to say something here in favor of White Wolf. It is a pretty book. Put it next to the Belmont editions of "Over the Edge" or the TPB edition of "An Edge in My Voice". No Dillon cover but,still. Imagine how cool 20 or 25 or 31 of them would look all lined up next to my Effinger 1st editions and my Farmer 1st editions. Neat, huh? I love Harlan but giving Harlan money for 30 books is an act of FAITH. Not one he doesn't deserve,but an act of faith nevertheless. I believe White Wolf made an OK 1st attempt. Check out early editions of "Dhalgren" or most Delaney for that matter if you want to see botched jobs. Ask Algis Budrys about Avon. Ask Norman Spinrad about the 1st ed. of "Bug Jack Baron". "The horror...the horror..." If a 2nd (or later) printing doesn't address some of this that would be sad but I am planning on outliving the paper some of my early obscure Ellison is printed on and so should you all. This is the best chance Harlan has of seeing a uniform edition of his work published in his lifetime and frankly I'd hate to see it go the way of other well intentioned projects. Sure, someday it will be perfect but I've never been good at deferring my pleasures. There, I've said it. You all know where I live. Where's my asbestos keyboard and monitor...

WolfMistress (Making it all up at once....) Fri Jun 14 16:15:09 1996
A quick comment: to clarify that my Mom got coupons for *free* cakemix & frosting. She got so many, I don't think she ever used them all up!

Also, I happened to like the hell out of "Kindred: The Embraced"! But then, I have a thing for vampires of all kinds. Whatever. I thought the show was so good (especially the guy who played Julian) that I hunted the Net for all the downloadable Kindred stuff!

OK, so maybe I'm missing something here; God knows, it wouldn't be the first time. But what is *wrong* with these people at White Wolf who contract to do all of HE's stuff then cut him to pieces in their own magazine????? What's the deal? Should we even trust White Wolf to fullfill the commitment to print HE's stuff? (God help them if they don't!)

It all just seems so odd that a popular, obviously successful publishing house like this should be so petty and bitchy - or employ people who are. THOUGHT: The bad proofreading work on Edgeworks was another way of getting at HE instigated by that Chris MacCubbin person - or someone sympathetic to MacCubbin's pov after HE tore into him in response.

I have the feeling this whole White Wolf thing is gonna get very bloody before it's all over....

WolfMistress (Part II (Since it wouldn't take it all at once!)) Fri Jun 14 15:43:56 1996
Continued to Kris(ten): OK - granted the $25 for Edgeworks isn't a big deal to me, but you are 100% on target about it being a lot to someone else. But the cost isn't even the issue. The issue is pride in creating something hundreds (thousands? millions?) of Ellison fans/appreciators) are going to buy to matter what condition it's in.

I think that is what prompted my nasty attitude -- I was disappointed in that aspect of Edgeworks and simply didn't want to keep talking about it. Ellison *anything* is just about *all* I will buy sight-unseen/unchecked, etc. It looked so beautiful, I thought HE was finally getting his just due - then to find the classic stories marred by White Wolf's inattention. Frankly, it is unpardonable.

What to do about it?? I have no idea. HE is aware of it; White Wolf is aware of it. I guess we just have to wait and see what shakes out of all this.

Oh, Kris(ten) - you can be readily forgiven for thinking HE was a "skiffy writer". What does that *mean* anyway?? Sounds deliciously rude to me.... 8-}. I guess I should pay more attention to a key ring I have that says, "The More You Complain, The Longer God Let's You Live". Maybe that was Mom's secret.....;-).

WolfMistress

WolfMistress (rwhiteanderson@kraft.com ) Fri Jun 14 15:43:24 1996
Hi, Folks! - Heartfelt thanks to one and all for condolences/best wishes. Mom had 85 years of celebrating: I've got 39 more to go....! Haven't totally caught up with all your commentary. Geez, we're a vociferous bunch, aren't we?? But then, look who our MENTOR is!!!! The one comment that comes quickly to mind, is the following:

Kris(ten): to be honest, I groaned to see the group was *still* commenting on the condition of Edgeworks, Vol.1. But I read your last posting, and realized that perhaps I was just being bitchy the day I flamed at you and started our 'Private Little War'. I apologize. Because your actions remind me of my Mom.

She was a Complainer (capital 'C'). Her stand was that if she was paying good money for something, it should *be* what she is paying for, no matter what it was. If something wasn't right when she got it home, she trekked all the way back to wherever she had gotten it, to lodge a complaint with the Manager (always Managers, no underlings), and to ask for a replacement or a refund. She did this with anything she had paid for and was not up to 'snuff', no matter if it was a mail-order purchase, or a local buy. I remember she once sent a whole box of Duncan Hines cake mix back to the factory because it had mealy bugs in (right from the store), with a letter of complaint. The company sent her coupons for about a years-worth of cakemixes and frostings!!!

My attitude was "why bother?" Shit happens. The older I've gotten, the more complacent I've become about getting good service or good anything, for that matter. There are no "craftsmen" anymore, and nobody really gives a damn as long as they can make a buck. Totally against my upbringing -- I have come to accept this!!!! You and your comments have served to reawaken me, in light of my recent event. here. She - and you - are absolutely correct. Why should we settle for second-rate work when it is so unnecessary?? One of the TV shows - Dateline or Primetime - had a whole show devoted to how Americans have become apathetic when it comes to complaining about anykind of shoddy work, a dis-service, or anything. They even showed that if someone did want to complain, most of the time they couldn't even find someone who would listen!

(Continued)

Charles (cem@flex.net) Fri Jun 14 12:09:19 1996
For what its worth, re-read "Mouse Circus", remembered it, still had problems with it but, the feeling I get out of it is in our desire to remember and enjoy the pleasures of our past, or even relive, we have a tendency to corrupt or even destroy that which made it enjoyable. Not one of the easier stories, and one I think each person will decrypt in his/her own fashion.

Wolfmistress(?): Give my condolances to your 'buds' hubby, having lost my grandfather, the only person who understood and dealt with my rebelous stage, to the "C" 12 years ago still hurts. Like your friend he too asked the doctor "if I stay will you cure me? No, s'long." And while it lets the person retain thier dignity it still hurts.

Can't remember who was looking for those back issues of "Dream Corridor" but I can help out with the special and #1. E-mail me and we"ll discuss specifics.

Ththththtats all for now folks.

Sue (or someone who resembles her) Fri Jun 14 10:59:37 1996

Rick - read the News update on the way out. Hurray! And congrats on the Webderland honors.. Now what exactly do they mean?? );-)~

Takes me forvever to PS, doesn't it???

Try High - Fly Straight - Drive Safe

Sue Luesse (jaluesse@htonline) Fri Jun 14 09:25:30 1996

Boy-Howdie.. Hubby is 'fine tuning' the 'puter and I've already had two crashes.. Hmmm.. And he did something to the fonts, 'cause the Board looks like "Dick and Jane" type printing.. Thought at first I had really slipped a widget, and was half expecting the fly to talk to me ("Hi. My name is Phoebe. Why does everyone act like I'm not here?.Rick's hardly ever here, and EVERYONE talks to him..I'm right here, and no one talks to ME...) I need to get more sleep!

Life is pretty busy. Oldest girl is getting married July 20, and we've 'hit the wall' on preparations. First Shower was Sunday (loads of fun - and work), and that is just the beginning. Best buddy's husband is in the 'make him comfortable' final stage of cancer, and wants to come home to die (a few weeks at most from now). They're holding up as well as can be expected, and what kind of friend would I be if I didn't handle the business end of things so they can spend their time together. Both my bike, and the back-up pile of crap Escort sprung gas tank leaks at the same time. Go figure! So I was reduced to stealing my sons truck, and getting a headache from the LOUD music (still haven't figured out how that mini-computer called the stereo works). And life goes on.. Just don't have the time to squat and think, much less read. Maybe in a month or two..

Brian - HE books like stamps?? More collectable in their 'oopsies'?? I like that twisted slant! (;-)

WolfMistress - Good to have you back. I was starting to think all the 'cool' people on the Board were doing a 'private room' thing, slipping out one at a time, and I would end up the only one here.. Glad to hear you have found peace with it. Hey, no appologies needed for that! If it works for you, it's fine by me.

Keegan - I think I'm jealous.. {8-p You're heading into a 'recharge your jets' summer of kick back, and I'm heading into the whirlwind.. Sigh.. About horror flicks - I can appreciate the technological wonder, and wonder why a perfectly good terror story (which involves tension, and lets my imagination do the dirty work) is ruined by removing the ultimate horror of the unknown. I do worry about de-sensitization. So much gore on the screen tends to trivialize the lesser gore of real life, which should engender a concerned response. Any time people laugh at pain, I worry.

Jeff - thanks for the explaination. I look forward to the e-mail details (still a small-town farming community mentallity here, is that GOSSIP? Let me at it!!). ;-)

Kris(ten) - Don't downplay what has meaning to YOU. I keep saying, it is ALWAYS the individual that is the bottom line. That's all there really is - individual people (even if there are vast numbers of them). HE suffers from bad PR because too many people generalize him into a bad attitude, and don't bother to see him as a person, with a lot more to him than just an 'edge'. If that's all HE is, then all his detractors are right. It meant a lot to YOU - and YOU have value as a person. That makes it meaningful. I think I'm a wee bit green with envy, and tickled pink for you (and now I clash with myself, so I can't go anywhere until I settle down).

Jason - I agree. Many years of 'battling the system' have taught me to use reason and patience, rather than threats and violence. You really can't MAKE people, only make them do it more when you aren't there (the revenge factor). You can educate and enlighten, so they choose differently. The definitive moment in our family for setting that value in stone came when the kids were still small. I used to lecture (for hours on end) until I knew my little pedunks 'got it', and would choose differently next time. One bright, beautiful, Summer day, as I was 'discussing a problem' with my four little guys, watching friends outside play and squirming, my oldest (then 6 yrs. old) asked me "Why can't Daddy just beat us when he gets home, like all the other Daddies do??".

Now I know the neighbors, and I know none of them beat their children - so I was stunned to hear that a swat on the butt, and sent to your room was 'a beating'. Daughter informed me she learned that in KINDERGARDEN from the teachers - ANY time ANYONE touches you in ANY way you don't like is abuse. And my kids all agreed the sting of a swat was over quicker than our 'discussions', and left them more time to do what they wanted.. We laugh about it now (with a little ache in the heart for how twisted children are taught to be), and all my now-grown children agree the best thing we gave them as parents (asside from the love) was the mental skills to reason through choices.

My best to you all, and hope I get the time for another massive 'catch-up' post soon. Do so enjoy the environment here.

Try High - Fly Straight - Drive Safe

Jason (Repenting with the Harlequin) (yu104681@yorku.ca) Fri Jun 14 01:16:02 1996
Kris(10) Your story brings to mind some Mike Crichton wrote in Approaching Oblivion, 'Other writers have fans, Harlan Ellison has followers who will beat up anybody who says a bad word about him.' Despite my earlier stant on revenge or mayhap because of it. I have to disagree with you on your course of action. It is after all part of our job in life to enlighten those who are ignorant. Being careful not to make the same assumptions about ignorance that the pilgrims did about the Indians.
In my writing class I offered The Whimper of Whipped Dogs, as a story I admired. One flatline in the class, dismissed it because she thought the story starts out as a psychological story, and then screws it up with metaphysical crap at the end. She's way off base, but fine HE can be an acquired taste for some. But then she goes on to criticize me for bringing in a sexist and racist story. My reaction was somewhat akin to Hera's after she found out that Zeus was slepping around on her, again.
Of course punching her in the nose was not an option. Instead I said something along the lines of you should go to the bathroom if gonna spout bull$#!Ý. Otherwise keep your mouth shut about things you have no right to make judgement on. I then went on to describe HE's efforts for equal rights for both race and gender. Seeing her look at me in impotent rage, was one of my most satisfying moments. On the downside I was deemed a 'meany' from then on and was told many times that I went too far.
What can you do?
WM My condolences as well, by the way have you heard from Amazon.com about the job yet?
keegan I agree with everything HE says, so there's not much to comment on.
Jason

Kris(ten) L. Homyk (if72@jove.acs.unt.edu) Thu Jun 13 22:38:47 1996
Sue: I'm not teasing -- I swear. I'm just...sharing, yeah, that's it. Seriously, though, it's really rare that people with billions of deadlines who are recovering from a heart attack and juggling said deadlines, new work, old work, and toastmastering respond to their mail at all, let alone so quickly. And that's all I've got to say bout that, 'cause I just wanted to say that we all always thing he's a great author and all, but I'll vouch for the fact that he's a nice guy if anyone asks. It's really no big deal and not the impressive in the big picture, but it mattered to me. Does anyone know where I can get an application for the Friends of Ellison?
WM: Please add me to the list of people expressing their consolences. It will be a year August 3rd since I lost my grandfather -- in a manner I would not have chosen -- and during this last year, _Angry_Candy_ has been my bible. Believe it or not, before that book, I thought Harlan Ellison was just another skiffy writer.

Jeff Cisneros (Bleeding Stones) (jcisneros@ichange.com) Thu Jun 13 22:35:07 1996
Sorry about being late with the clarification for those who wanted it, just in case I will send private e-mail to those interested parties. Mark Rhein*Hagen is the President and creator of the Vampire: The Masquerade Game, as well as the co-producer of the ill-fated "Kindred: The Embraced" tv series. He is the primary person who was responsible for signing Harlan's backlist. As President of White Wolf Game Studios, he also enjoys final editing responsibility for major projects. Chris MacCubbin wrote a column in White Wolf magazine entitled "Out of your Mother's Basement," he is the big schmuck who called Harlan nasty names in print without his boss' permission. Stewart Wieck is Mr. Rhein*Hagen's executive assistant and thus shares ultimate editorial responsibility. I wrote freelance for White Wolf Magazine until Mr. MacCubbin started using his column as a place to sharpen his teeth on other folk's bones. Harlan got his return lumps on MacCubbin in the magazine, but it still left a rather sour taste in my mouth. I note that the magazine soon went out of business. Although I don't know for sure, but I really doubt that many more prominent authors will be doing work with WW, such is the power of the coconut telegraph (the grapevine).

Keep smilin',

Jeff Cisneros

keegan (loungin' in the Little Life Hutch) Thu Jun 13 21:48:03 1996
Hey, all. Just dropping in to say hi. The final report cards are all written, the final concert is over. All I gotta do now is entertain 'em for a week, and after all, isn't that what music is about?

Anyway, in roughly a week I will have much more time to read. Perhaps then I will have something of significance to add to this conversation. Then again, maybe not.:) In the meantime, anyone care to comment about their reactions to "The Thick Red Moment" and/or "Three Faces of Fear" (Yeah, I know I brought this up a few k ago, but thought I'd ask again). What do you think about the state of cinema today--especially the "horror" genre? Is it getting any better? I think arguments could be made either way. Anyway, just curious.

Wolfmistress-Glad you're back. Condolences on your loss. It sounds like she had a wonderful life and gave you much.

Sue-look for email any day now!

WolfMistress (Low Pressure Regions Between....) Thu Jun 13 16:26:35 1996
Before someone gets the wrong idea about the fact that my Mom has died and I'm right back on the Board like nothing happened, all I can say is that the belief system she and I share celebrates Life, in any and all forms. This is *my* belief system, and it works for me. I honor my Mom by getting on with my Life. She had 85 beautiful years and was healthy & sharp-minded to the end. It was sudden and very quick, just as she said it would be. My Mom was a whirlwind who left a few little petals of love wherever she went. I will miss her, but I do not mourn nor do I grieve. I do what she did: barrel-ass through Life as best I can, enjoying nearly every minute of it.

And -- A big HELLLOOOOO! to all the newcomers. You'll get enough of me, sooner or later....

The WolfMistress

WolfMistress (Returned from The Region Between....) Thu Jun 13 09:26:39 1996
I'm BAAAAACK! Massive shock-time last week - got word my Mom had died in her house in Pittsburgh. Shock, deisbelief, disjointedness. Mad scramble to get my son + companion from Oshkosh and head a 1000 miles to PA. Between then and now, my son and I have found the peace & love "which passeth all understanding." It works for us.

And we learned my Mom's planning, arrangements, investments, etc. were a helluva lot more far-reaching than we ever knew. However, that is behind me, and I was curious about something: I found among my hundreds (it appears so, anyway!) of SF paperbacks, etc. from the '70s forward, an interesting little number edited by the late Terry Carr.

It is #6 (I think) of The World's Best Science Fiction and contains an HE story -- "Seeing". Does anyone out there know this story and anywhere else it may have appeared??? Thanks all! More later. Trying to play catch-up with my job here. I don't even know what I was doing last week....

Jason (Trying to manicure a glass hand) Wed Jun 12 22:38:14 1996
Shaz as the resident comic expert of the board, (if anyone out there claims different, too bad) I can tell you getting Dream Corridor is about as easy as getting hold of his work normally. Best bet, and this is for everybody who wants copies of DC find a mail order comic store either online or through a comic magazine and try and ordering it from them. If that fails call up every comic store in the area and ask if they have it. If they don't get a recommendation for another store.
And if that doesn't work, call up go to the yellow pages and call up every comic store until you find them.

Unca Harlan was back on @discovery.ca again. This time the subject was time travel, several of HE's stories were mentioned; Soldier, Demon with a glass hand and a certain star trek episode. Terminator was also mentioned, although it was only mentioned as() though that's possibly because of the terms of the lawsuit.
HE also talked about one of his favourite time travel movies, can you guess what it is? No... not The Time Machine. Not Slaughterhouse 5. Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure!! Now I know why HE likes Friends.
HE's on the Anti-Gravityroom is on again, for me anyway I'll pass on details for those who can't see it for one reason or another.

A Demain mes amis.
Jason

Brian Ekberg (ekbergb@mindspring.com) Wed Jun 12 21:06:34 1996
I wonder if the uncorrected, error-laden Vol. 1 of Edgeworks will be worth money one day? Not that I intend to sell it or anything. I just would like to hold in front of my friends' faces and shriek at them with mocking tones until their self-worth goes down the pooper. Good day.

Sue Luesse (Looking for the Lost Hour - I could use it(jaluesse@htonline.com)) Wed Jun 12 19:14:19 1996

Charles - At The Mouse Circus is in Deathbird and Essential Ellison. Have at it (and keep the aspirin handy..)

Kris(ten) - It's not nice to tease.. ;-) So what brought on your testimony in HE's behalf??

Try High - Fly Straight - Drive Safe

Kris(ten) L. Homyk (if72@jove.acs.unt.edu) Wed Jun 12 18:10:03 1996
Gang, I'm glad for once to be able to offer the general lot of you a bit of advice my from small stock of exciting personal experiences:
If anyone ever tries to tell you that Harlan Ellison is not just a really great human being who has it in him to "thoughtfully gesture" toward us mere mortals, punch them right in the nose and walk away.

Charles (cem@flex.net) Wed Jun 12 04:18:25 1996
I"m back, sorry about the delay, just moved into new house and been busy out the yin/yang, but have my office now and wife doesnt complain about me working in dining room. Ya'll will have to give me detail on which of the thousands of books and periodicals I'm unpacking so I can re-read Mouse Circus and give my comments on. Excuse me if I seem scatterbrained at hte juncture but I still see boxes and crates and tape, oh my, in my dreams with no end in sight. Between the 8 boxes of video and 22 boxes of books and magazines just for my office I'm going crazzy (dont get me started on rest of crap). Seems that alot of talk going on here about quality of binding and typos. No problem here with the binding, but then I handle the books like they were printed with plutonium ink, as for the typos blame it on rush job, or cross-eyed nun with a bottle of gin hired as a proofreader, but with mail going in it's got to be better (I hope). Will close for now, got a couple of boxes of plates to open just to find a glass. ]}:>

Shaz Tue Jun 11 18:15:29 1996
I just picked up a copy of "The Book of Imaginary Beings" by Jorge Luis
Borges. It's quite interesting--a definite reference book for anyone
curious about the historic background of such creatures as the Basilisk
and the Double and the like found in Ellison's stories
Has anyone else read "Djinn, No Chaser", which I found in a sf humor
compilation titled "Smart Dragons, Foolish Elves"? Granted, it is far
from Harlan's greatest work, but it's damn amusing.
Oh and I promise to get to that review of "At The Mouse Circus" sometime
today (after I've had some sleep and attended my Dutch language class
in the afternoon). Right now I'm dead tired.
BTW, I got my hands on a HE Dream Corridor #4 this weekend in Amsterdam,
and wish to find the rest of the series. Just how hard would such comics printed in 1995 be to come by? I have no experience collecting/buying comics, so I would appreciate a tip from someone who knows.

Sue Luesse Tue Jun 11 10:52:44 1996

Here I go again..

Barney - I did drop by Inkspots, and it was just as you promised - quite a complete resource for writers, illustrators, and 'book people'. I tend to be a 'goodernuff' type, rather than a 'completist', but enjoyed learning about the Dillons anyway (do like their memorable cover art).

Kris(ten) - lost the second two thirds of that last post (and Rick promised.. I'm going over his head, and tell on him - to Toonces (;-)~ ). If you are interested, e-mail - and we can discuss further.

Jim and WolfMistress - I promise not to do it again (if you promse to tell me what it was).. Miss you guys..

Sue Luesse (Jealous of Jefty, having just voted and wondering why) Tue Jun 11 10:43:12 1996

Had a 'local' election - nothing important, just how much higher taxes can go, and who is going to spend this ill-got gain for us.. I think all the candidates had the same campaign manager, who xeroxed a single resume for them all.. So few people voting that the Election Workers were offering free coffee and donuts to anyone who would stay and chat to ease the boredom. They got excited at the 'rush' we created just before the polls closed, when eight of us showed up to vote at once (our family).. Never say your vote doesn't count, though. With ten minutes to go, our family 'voting bloc' accounted for 5% of the total number of votes cast. That would have been more meaningful if there had been a real choice..

Been thinking about the 'quality' issue. A quick scan of our bookshelves shows exactly when Star Wars and Star Trek made their mark. The older s-f is yellowing pages rubberbanded between covers, with very few hardcovers. Most of the newer stuff still looks like books. I have to conclude that the overall quality of publications in the s-f genre is improving. It seems to me quality rose, but not quite as quickly as purchase price - and the explosion in volume (market increase) had more to do with availability and selection. I think waving that green, folding stuff in their faces while repeating what you expect for it can have an effect on business-types. Just don't expect too much... (8-)~

Jason - thanks for the 'preview'.. I'll tape, and watch at my leisure (like I have any time for that in the midst of Graduation/Wedding season - it may be a while).

Kris(ten) - I've read the same numbers as you cite from your class, and wondered about it. Though there is no way to know if people *read* what they buy, more books are being printed and sold than ever before (according the the bottom lines tracked and taxed by the Feds, and the huge increase in publishing catalogues).. Maybe it is only in America??

Jason Mon Jun 10 23:32:49 1996
I'll take a look Barney

Something I'd pay to see. HE on Celebrity Jepoardy. Just for the five second interview.

HE on t.v.! No idea if any of you get these shows. The discovery channel was doing a five part series on SF and the impact on the world or something like that. In the first part HE had a very quick apperance, but I think he'll appear again. The other show I believe is on your USA network it's called the Anti-Gravity Room. The episode is about collecting, and Harlan is featured for ten minutes. With short sections of Harlan on... Harlan on everything, Harlan onHarlan and ironically enough Harlan on Death. to paraphrase; When I'm about a minute and a half from death, I'm going summon all of my remaining strength sit up in my deathbed and go; Th-th-th-that's all folks!'
I'll give you more when it repeats on Thursday.
Jason

Barney Dannelke (Jefty is 5 and GLAD he can't vote) (dannelke01@enter.net ) Mon Jun 10 08:00:58 1996
This isn't the cool place it ought to be (yet) but there heart is in the right place so I would like to recommend this link to Ellisonalia ephemerists and other completists - http://www.interlog.com/~ohi/inkspot/illus/dillon.html#project They seem to be just getting started and I could think of a couple of Dillons just off the top of my head that were not mentioned but "Rome wasn't" blah blah blah. Perhaps somebody here would like to send them an addendum. Just a thought. I stated out collecting Dillon stuff as a direct result of the Pyramid Ellison re-issue line but now have way more than I would have imagined even existed. I also have bought and read some wonderful books that I otherwise would have never even seen-let alone considered. Do I judge a book by it's cover? Does the Pope have a bunch of hats you shouldn't wear to a tractor pull at the Outagamee Speedway in Appleton, WI. ? At any rate, I just thought I'd mention it. Later still...

Barney Dannelke (Still Looking for Kadak) (dannelke01@enter.net) Sun Jun 9 21:12:04 1996
I'm Baaaaaack! Since we seem to be back to normal (post cardiac event wise) I thought I'd contribute this little tidbit. Aardwolf Comics (no Whitewolf genetic match) has just solicited - read 3 months from now - "Strange Kaddish: Tales You Wont Hear From Bubbie" featuring stuff by Messner-Loebs, Neal Gaiman, and some cranky old Jew by the name of Ellison. $10 US / limited to 4000 copies. Which Ellison is it? Don't know. New material? Don't know. Words and pretty pictures? Don't know. Do I brush often enough? Do you see where this is going? Since I collect it ALL it doesn't matter but you may want to pester your local comic shop for more info. Or just call HIM at home. To the One person who didn't get that - don't. On a different note I just wanted to say I also thought it was terrific the way everybody de-lurked for best wishes a couple of weeks ago. I would imagine Harlan now knows how Huck felt at his own funeral. Here's hoping he's harder to get rid of than Teddy Roosevelt. Later...

Kris(ten) L. Homyk (if72@jove.acs.unt.edu) Sun Jun 9 19:30:59 1996
Hey guys: I just reread my comment and I don't want to get anything started with my line about a small book-buying minority, so I will explain my self. In my last class of media studies (hey, she's a journalist -- everyone who guessed right gets a cookie at recess) the frightening statistic was put forth that the average American buys one book a year -- and that's not even solid proof that they read it. NOW THEN, if you're like me (or my boyfriend), you buy MUCH more than your share. A quick glance at my bookshelf tells me I buy maybe 30 a semester for my own enjoyment, which means I knock approximately 60 or so people out of the stats every year just by myself. So while I hate to admit it, those of us who actually BUY and READ books are a minority. I fear for the future of this country, but it still means there's a lot of pressure on those of us who DO read to demand some semblance of quality from artists and publishers.

Kris(ten) L. Homyk (if72@jove.acs.unt.edu) Sun Jun 9 19:10:18 1996
keegan: Well, those of us who already bought it have made our voices heard as it were. E-mail screaming, an entire page here dedicated to typos and a generally-upset community are all effective ways of communication, but I am a firm believer in the impact of an old-fashioned letter. So I mailed one to White Wolf. I tried to be kind, yet firm. One outta two ain't bad. I would encourage others to follow in my footsteps as well (well, perhaps ya'll *could* also be kind) and sign your name to a small missive and invest the $.32 to let WW know you're not a happy consumer. If you've paid for the project, you have every right to review it.
And as for Essential falling apart, I am not at all unhappy with my hardcover copy, but the book is probably too large to be a paperback bound in that manner. I know it wasn't specified, but I expect it was the paperback copy. Either way, go ahead and complain to Morpheus, too. If it had fallen apart so soon, I would've taken it back to the store at which it was purchased.
I think my point here is that we as consumers have been well-conditioned for planned obsilessence (God, I wish I could spell) and shoddy workmanship in products. I would HATE to see this complacense (there I go again) carry over into the publishing industry. As buyers and readers, we can make sure that publishers know that we will not accept cruddy craftsmanship in their products. For once, let's prove that the small book-buying minority really can be elitist about something worthwhile -- the protection of the language and the artists who provide us with so much enjoyment. So not just this time, guys, but every time, cover art aside (*grin*) let's at least demand our money's worth, politely, yet firmly.

Mr. K. (Bishop's Gate) Sun Jun 9 13:30:20 1996
Kudo's to Toonces (and the Wyatt fellow) for sharing their personal space with the e-folk.
A Star Wars arcade game? #Cool#. I've always wanted to own a pinball machine or a video game. Maybe soon I'll have the space....
-JK

keegan Sun Jun 9 12:25:33 1996
Hmmmm, Jason. My "Essential" didn't do that to me. Sorry to hear yours did. My copy of "Edgeworks" hasn't fallen apart yet, but it feels like it might at any minute. Maybe I'm just paranoid 'cause I see my two-year-old eyeing it with a gleam......

Jason Sun Jun 9 11:41:21 1996
THIGHS of Atlas Rick? A little off there I'm sure. Enjoyed the tour, can't help help wondering what Toonces thinks of A Boy and his Dog.
Keegan have to disagree with you about the cheapness of Edgeworks compared to Essential. My copy of Essential lost about five pages within 3 days of purchase. And no I don't treat my books badly. I guess I'm saying I'd rather have a book with typos than a book that's falling apart. As for 'Walking the High Steel' Part of the problem might lie with HE himself. He says in the foreword that High Steel was rewritten, and it's probably during the rewrite that the name change took place. My guess about the typos is that a mix up occured during the editing proccess and the wrong copy got out. Or something like that. HE praised his editors in several places through out the book. Yes I'm defending the book, I'm doing it because people seem to be blaming everybody, but the person or people where the buck should stop. That is the proofreaders. It's the proofreaders job to catch and fix the errors, not the editors who deal with the general content, not the publishers, not the printers. Maybe WW has to fire the proofreader, or maybe have two proofreaders on the same book. Or maybe it was like said before and the wrong copy got out. WW knows there's a problem and if it persists, then some thing more should be said.
That's all for now.
Jason

Sue Luesse Sat Jun 8 22:51:56 1996

Hey Rick - glad you mentioned the 'updates'.. I was hoping it was my eyes again (and not my mind).. Trying to remember if 'used clicks' on site always were such a lovely shade of lavender.. (;P

I like it, I like it. Thank Toonce for us. Good to know *someone* is on *top* of things...

Try High - Fly Straight - Drive Safe

keegan Sat Jun 8 22:28:27 1996
Virtual Tour of Webderland rocked! Toonces delivers and with more personality than that stuffy old Socks.

About Shazam: Wasn't there a live action Saturday morning teevee show where Billy Batson did the Shazam thang while some other chick drew down Isis? THAT's how I know the saga, though I am at least somewhat aware that the teevee thing descended from an honest-to-god comic book. Is my generation gap showing?

Rick Wyatt (webmaster@harlanellison.com) Sat Jun 8 22:07:15 1996
Okay, I've just spent ALL FREAKING DAY AND NIGHT completely re-doing the Gallery section (the "Pics" selection at the top and bottom of this page), and DAMNIT SOMEBODY BETTER APPRECIATE IT!

Sorry, I lost it for a second. Anyway, there's about a gozillion new pictures there, and I've organized them into sections by type. There's even a Virtual Tour of Webderland, with pictures of yours truly (amongst other more appetizing subjects). So, like, check it out, okay?

And Shaz - sorry, but you DID miss the boat. the S-H-A-Z was undoubtedly a reference to the old Captain Marvel golden-age comic, featuring Billy Batson as a young boy who transforms into the superhero Captain Marvel by saying "Shazam!". Shazam is the name of the wizard who gave Billy his powers. The old dude lives at the Rock of Eternity. Saying "Shazam" (if you're Billy Batson, his sister Mary, or his friend Freddy (Captain Marvel Junior)) produces a thunderbolt from the old geezer that loads up the boltee with the wisdom of Solomon, the strength of Hercules, the skill of Achilles, the power of Zeus, the thighs of Atlas, and the magic of Merlin. Or something like that, it's been ages since I read the thing.

I've got a new news item to put in, I'll try to get to it tomorrow or Monday. Stay tuned...

Sue Luesse (At the Zoo, no, Mouse House, no, whatever..) Sat Jun 8 19:08:39 1996

Shaz - I'm interested, and I do remember the cartoon you refered to (vaguely - wasn't that Johnny Quest era?).

Keegan - I agree with you. So I plan to buy Edgeworks at the ComicCon, and let them know how 'the market' feels about inferior quality products on the spot - unless the vendor is just that, and not one of the White Wolf publishing empire sycophants.

Back to the WEEKEND!

Try High - Fly Straight - Drive Safe

Shaz (Apologies...) Sat Jun 8 18:34:20 1996
My apologies for continuing to type "The Mouse Circus" instead of "At The Mouse Circus".

Shaz (remco@cas.et.tudelft.nl & psyco4@jetson.uh.edu) Sat Jun 8 18:17:15 1996
Sue (And Whomever Else It May Concern):
Are you still interested in my brief analysis of "At The Mouse
Circus"? I wouldn't want to bore the comment board with yet another
take on it, though I have now read it 4 times in 2 days, if noone is
really interested. I do have one minor question about it...that part
with Billy Batson (boy in mailslot) with the "S-H-A-Z". Does anyone
remember an old cartoon called "Shazam" where a well dressed lad had
a genie named "Shazam" (whom he conjured by saying the name)? Am I
way off here?
If anyone is interested in yet another trip into "At The Mouse
Circus, let me know.

keegan (the time of the java) Sat Jun 8 09:32:26 1996
Anybody else consider this? If people refuse to buy "Edgeworks" it would send a message about consumer demand for quality. It could also significantly diminish White Wolf's expected profits from the book. This in turn might effect the scheduled release of subsequent works in the Ellison series.

I think it's a good idea to buy this book despite its publication flaws, especially if you don't already own books that contain these HE pieces. The Work itself is superb and should be supported. I will see what the second book looks like before closing the door on the publisher.

"Fool me once; shame on you. Fool me twice; shame on me." I will not buy sight-unseen next time 'round. For now, I'll let it slide.....

Just my opinion, of course.

Sue Luesse (jaluesse@htonlne.com) Fri Jun 7 16:24:07 1996

Whoooeeeee! Making me think twice about buying Edgeworks..

So Jeff - Howzabout I mosey on over to the White Wolf booth (table?) at the ComicCon, noodgie around 'til I know if Mark the Schmuck and/or Stinky Stewie are present, and inquire as to their obvious lack of professionalism, disdain for the printed word, total disregard for creative people, and complete trashing of book purchasers? I might even add a personal note to expand their awareness... I think it sounds like fun (heh,heh). >;-) I think I'm getting the gist of it from your post, Jeff - but please do clarify as Kris(ten) requested. I hate it when I know I'm right, and get shot down as 'ignorant'..

Charles - better start turning off the lights, locking windows and doors, and pulling heavy curtains shut tight before you curl up with that mouse and do the cord thing.. Our helpful Government is piloting a test project in the New York/Baltimore corridor for user IDs to access the Web..

BTW - there is something going on at http://www.vtw.org/speech with regards to the Telecomunications Bill just passed.. Legal actions challenging it, petitions, yet another spiffy little box to put on your Home Page in support.. Well, we knew Jim Hess would be gone for a bit - but didn't he say he'd be back by now?? Are you being naughty, Jim, and lurking?? Or naughtier, and posting under an alias?? And now WolfMistress is swallowed up in silence as well.. Wait a minute.. That's just a co-incidence - right?.. (8-)~

Awww, heck. I'm getting sappy and romantic thoughts. Losing that paranoid edge. Go read HE cure.....

Try High - Fly Straight - Drive Safe

keegan Fri Jun 7 14:37:00 1996
Yeah, Kris! Just how DO those publishers do their thing. There's lots of discussion in the HE newsgroup kvetching about the books poor design. While I don't necessarily care as deeply about the cosmetic details as others seem to, I definitely notice that the book *feels* cheaper, less sturdy or solid somehow, than say, "Essential Ellison". What's the story with book design?

Specifically, what process did WhiteWolf employ to proofread? Is this a typesetting problem, an editorial problem, a technology problem, or what? It's obviously a problem of some sort and I hope White Wolf is honest enough to solve it. They appear willing to do so.

I'm grateful to White Wolf for publishing this stuff. Really, I am and I don't want to dog their vision. But the product itself felt kind of amateur. To me, it's still worth buying, but it seems they could've done a bit better. Then again, whaddo I know?

Kris(ten) L. Homyk (if72@jove.acs.unt.edu) Fri Jun 7 07:31:33 1996
Jeff: I wish I knew who those people were -- I get the feeling I should, but I've never heard of them. I'm would love a clarification of what you said (please). I've always wondered about that actual company, never having heard of them before HE got involved with them (I haven't been into RPG's since high school -- been a few years). Perhaps you can help me satisfy my curiousity with your clarification -- I've always wondered exactly what a publishing company was doing if they weren't just ultra-busy editing their books.

Jeff Cisneros (At The Mouse Circus) (jcisneros@ichange.com) Fri Jun 7 02:14:58 1996
Let's pretend for a moment that Mark Rhein*Hagen is someone of major importance. Then he would make sure that typos never grace his product, not to mention keeping loudmouths like Chris MacCubbin in his unprofessional little corner. Let's pretend that the show "Kindred: The Embraced" is an overwhelming success (which it is not). Let us pretend that the producer of said show is NOT running around claiming HE was the creator of the entire WW style genre. With all of these factors and more pressing on Mr. Rhein*Hagen, I have little doubt he has no time to make sure that good editing is done. Besides, as a pro in the RPG writing biz, I will cheerfully inform all of my good friends here at Ellison Webderland what a complete and utter SCHMUCK that Mark is. In White Wolf magazine, this Chris MacCubbin character essentially slammed HE for everything from world hunger to the Ebola virus epidemic. Truly tasteless considering his boss had just signed Harlan for his backlist. Bright, eh? I expect a lot worse than typos out of White Wolf. Just in cause folks think this is sour grapes, bear in mind that I endorse their product line. I merely will point out that almost every freelancer in the RPG publishing business has warned Mark and his assistant Stewart Wieck about maintaining editorial control (and administering a dose of common sense to his staff). I guess my rant is over..I now return you to the pleasant task of discussing Harlan's works.

Kris(ten) L. Homyk (if72@jove.acs.unt.edu) Thu Jun 6 17:49:09 1996
Jason: Like I said before about the typos...White Wolf does not seem to be too concerned about the accuracy of anything they put their name on -- just a hunch, though. *giggle*

Sue Luesse (jaluesse@htonline.com) Thu Jun 6 16:58:31 1996

Uummmm - Jason - how 'bout tossing out a few instructive http's, or titles, to help the Computer Challenged figure out how to get a text out of Word for Windows (my snail mail print-outs are near perfect thanks to Spell/GrammarCheck) and into e-mail (or the Comments Window)... What you see is what you get, from me. No helpful programs to clean up my act for me.. Just hanging out here, warts and all..

I'm not sure if that counts as a 'flame', but it's the best I can manage in my endless series of 'first drafts' (or should that be 'dafts'??). I had no idea the occasional 'oopsy' in a post was different in nature that the 'oopsies' easily overlooked in Edgeworks.. Gosh, guess there are benefits to being a Somebody..

I think I'll go play with my mental blocks now..

Try High - Fly Straight - Drive Safe

keegan Thu Jun 6 14:47:51 1996
Jason- I think "3 Faces of Fear" examines how a film producer can best serve Art when "reduced" to making horror flicks for a living. Harlan seems basically to say that there's a high road and there's a low road. To take the high road requires a deep understanding of the nature of Fear.

In "The Thick Red Moment", Harlan castigates the *audiences* who cheer, even laugh, when the low road of gratuitous violence and slow-motion gore is the mode travelled by the producers. Harlan goes on to describe why movies of this sort are the basest examples of action on celluloid, hardly approaching Art, and certainly in no way intellectually nourishing. His focus, however, remains firmly fixed on audiences who exhibit their sickness by even paying for that kitsch in the first place.

Thoughts?

Jason (rechecking my perscription) Wed Jun 5 23:46:36 1996
That should read ...along with City, WHICH according to Rick
I can GET a copy for 5¢ and ... exchange rate or what, but whatever it is, I can't afford it.
gee Hope no-one thinks that my ommitted words have some devoius ulterior motive against my fellow posters. (yes that comment was uncalled for, I get a little mean, flame me.)

Jason (Always on the Cutting Edge(not exactly a title, but who cares)) Wed Jun 5 23:34:51 1996
Thanks Rick, D.T. I was wondering about Angry Candy. Combine Edgeworks with The Essential, and you probably get everything that isn't still in print. (Everything that HE would have you read.) By the way White wolf already lists Edgeworks vol II to order along with City, according to Rick is coming out in the fall so I'm guessing about that long until vol II. Kris I hope you give White Wolf another chance for something that was obviously a mistake.
Have a bit of a moral dilemma. My local library has Mefisto in Onyx on cd as part of their Electronic copies of Omni, I can a copy for 5¢ a page (the paper cost) obviously cheaper than the $30 Mefisto in Onyx novella, I'm not sure if that's because of the exchange rate or what, but either way I can't afford it. But getting a copy the other way feels a little like stealing.
Anakin I've tried to get through a couple of time earlier on, but no luck I'll try again. BTW I'm still waiting for Fairchild and Lynch to get together. (Not Alex Fairchild, get your mind out of the gutter.) p.s. Have you heard about DV8 the GEN13 spinoff?

Back to the 3 faces of fear. (Back? When were you on 3 faces to begin with?) {Shut up you'll ruin everything they don't know about you} I liked it, anyone know what the deal is with the Thick Red Moment and 3 Faces, more detail when I'm awake.

I'll be back when they let me have access to a computer again. (I'll be a good boy, I promise!)
Concerned yet?
Jason

keegan ((gotta get) an edge in my groove) Wed Jun 5 21:49:41 1996
This is the HE quote I'm going to throw on the wall of the music room at school tomorrow: "As with all work that either approaches or becomes Art, there is a specific and enormous demand on the observer, *by* the very nature and dimensions of the work *itself*, to commit; to participate; to bring something very individual and personal to the *work*, to expand it, in effect. To add to it. To color it and intensify it, to personalize it, if you will."

The kids won't have a blinking clue what all that means, but it'll keep me sane and you never know, it might catch the eye of one of the brighter ones.

It sums up many of my feelings about music even though the quote appears in "3 Faces of Fear", an essay about films of fear. I personally believe that Art and Fear often walk hand in hand, and that one of Art's primary functions is to manage fear by expressing it or sublimating it. I loved this essay which made me consider my own "Room 101's". Peeked inside....and, oh my! Anyone care to comment about their reactions to "3 Faces of Fear"?

Rick Wyatt Wed Jun 5 20:11:16 1996
Oops. Looks like someone else was just as busy typing as me...

And yes, I know that ought to be "incidence" down there. Bite me.

Rick Wyatt (webmaster@harlanellison.com) Wed Jun 5 20:09:30 1996
I just archived the board and repaired the broken comments file. Sorry for the problems, they are all server-based and out of my control. The archival should lower the incident of failed comments, and try again if you get an error.

To answer the questions about the White Wolf publications, here is a list of the titles which were not included in the previous list. I think you will see it brings the total up to the promised 31:
AGAIN, DANGEROUS VISIONS
WEB OF THE CITY
THE SOUND OF A SCYTHE
THE DEADLY STREETS
STALKING THE NIGHTMARE
PARTNERS IN WONDER
THE STARLOST: Phoenix Without Ashes (with Edward Bryant)
THE OTHER GLASS TEAT
HARLAN ELLISON'S WATCHING
HARLAN ELLISON'S MOVIE
THE HARLAN ELLISON HORNBOOK
MEDEA: HARLAN'S WORLD

I also can hardly agree that this is not a representative or complete collection of Ellison's work. As near as I can figure, it encompasses every last one of Ellison's major short story and essay collections, as well as every other major original publication he has been involved with.

In fact, some of the volumes, such as _ROUGH BEASTS_ and _HARLAN ELLISON'S MOVIE_, are very hard to come by. There are other short story collections and essay sets, but these mostly contain reprints of stories and essays found within the 31 titles being reprinted. It appears that HE as well is updating the collections with stories not included elsewhere, as he did in the _OVER THE EDGE_ volume.

D.T. Shindler (Same as before) Wed Jun 5 20:05:25 1996
Damn! Missed one title from that list: The Other Glass Teat. That's definitely all of them for now.

D.T. Shindler (Ain't Got One) Wed Jun 5 20:00:35 1996
Here's a comprehensive list of all titles listed (at the moment) for inclusion in the Edgeworks series. The information comes directly from White Wolf (my info seems to be different than Kris' 'cause the list I got was longer and didn't include Angry Candy, which is still published by Plume), and also from (drum roll, here) THE HARLAN ELLISON RECORDING COLLECTION newsletter. If you really want inside info into Harlan Ellison's pbulishing schedules, etc., you really ought to subscribe (I believe info for that can be found on one of the selections of this fine WEB page)! The preceeding was an unpaid advertisement. Now, the list: Gentleman junkie; Spider Kiss; Shatterday; An Edge In my Voice; Dangerous Visions; Again, Dangerous Visions; Web of the City; The Sound of a Scythe; The Deadly Streets; Children of the Streets; Ellison Wonderland; Paingod; I have no Mouth & I Must Scream; From the Land of Fear; The BEast That Shouted Love at the Heart of the World; Over the Edge;No Doors, No Windows; Strange Wine; Stalking the Nightmare; Partners in Wonder; The Starlost:Phoenix Without Ashes; Memos From Purgatory; The Glass Teat; Harlan Ellison's Watching; Rough Beasts; Harlan Ellison's Movie; The Harlan Ellison Hornbook; Medea: Harlan's World; Approaching Oblivion; Love Aint Nothing But Sex Misspelled. That's it. The entire list (which, according to an Ellison interview) is subject to change, by growing longer (if other titles become "available" after current contracts are spent). It was also mentioned that the Dangerous Visions anthologies (and perhaps others)will be published by themselves, as one volume each, because of their size. Okay. I've done my duty. Don't say I've never done anything for you guys. Now get out you checkbooks and subscribe to the HERC newsletter (and for pete's sake buy a recording or two, cause they're dynamite!). Do so, now. 'Cause next time (to borrow from the patron saint), I stop being polite!

Mara Skywalker (Anakin O'Hara's Brain) Wed Jun 5 19:34:28 1996
Just stopped over to say hi! Gotta go, I have read the latest issue of
GEN13! I really do miss you guys, lets talk one of these days, visit Mara's Cafe,
so to show you how nice I am. M-THUR, 7-8,8:30pm, F+Sat,3-4,4:30pm, eastern time,
see you!

Sue Luesse (Over The Edge and into the Works) Wed Jun 5 13:54:50 1996

Hey all. Took a peek at the HE biblio in the front of Essential Ellison, and quit counting titles when I hit 25.

Looks like I may have to break down and BUY Edgeworks, just so I know what the heck you guys are talking about. Hope you all feel special - I don't do this sort of thing for just anybody..

Sue Luesse (Really starting to think They are out to get me) Wed Jun 5 13:54:36 1996

O.K. A tag line here, an exit line there.. No big loss.. But 3 paragraphs? Did you put a governor on the Comment Window?? That recognizes me???

Try High - Fly Stright - Drive Safe

(she says, sweating profusely, looking around with paranoid intensity)

Sue Luesse (Over The Edge and into the Works) Wed Jun 5 13:48:12 1996

Hey all. Took a peek at the HE biblio in the front of Essential Ellison, and quit counting titles when I hit 25.

Looks like I may have to break down and BUY Edgeworks, just so I know what the heck you guys are talking about. Hope you all feel special - I don't do this sort of thing for just anybody..

Kris(ten) L. Homyk (if72@jove.acs.unt.edu) Wed Jun 5 06:11:23 1996
The list looked a little short to me, too, but I assure you, if White Wolf intends to release more titles than that, they are not telling anyone. The poster is kinda arty -- to match the style of the first cover, only in brown and gold, not blues -- and it at least insinuates that this IS the series, not just part of it. However, if they left any off, I'm sure they'll apologize for the gigantic typo.

Jason (The three e-mail addresses of fear) Tue Jun 4 22:19:13 1996
To the newcomers welcome. Kris are you sure that's all of them? You've listed 20 titles and White Wolf has said they were reprinting 31 of HE's books, not to mention there is at least 20 volumes, and with Over the Edge and An Edge in my Voice in one volume, that leaves 18 books to fill 19 volumes, perhaps some of the rare ones weren't listed. By the way what HE books are considered rare? If it's books like Doomsman you probably won't see them reprinted.
Rick how about you, do you know, or can you get a hold of the Edgeworks contents?
Jason

Kris(ten) L. Homyk (if72@jove.acs.unt.edu) Tue Jun 4 16:58:13 1996
Shaz: I have no release dates and no idea what the combinations will be in Edgeworks. BUT through the miracles of wondrous connections in the book-selling business (ah, yes, you too can be a collector and spend so much money on old books that the people selling them to you feel very, very sorry for you), I have obtained my very own copy of the publicity poster from White Wolf for the series. Chances are good that although White Wolf and I have parted ideologies, I won't part with the poster. However, I will share with you the list of titles...
Paingod
Love Ain't Nothing But Sex Misspelled
The Beast That Shouted Love At the Heart of The World
An Edge In My Voice
Over The Edge
Gentleman Junkie
Approaching Oblivion
I Have No Mouth And I Must Scream
Strange Wine
The Glass Teat
Children Of The Streets
Dangerous Visions
Ellison Wonderland
Angry Candy
Shatterday
Spider Kiss
From The Land of Fear
Memos From Purgatory
No Doors, No Windows
Rough Beasts
Not to offer up my own complaints, knowing as I do that they are unpopular, but just as a word from a collector, almost none of that stuff is that rare. But that is the official list, from the official White Wolf publicity stuff. I think somewhere on this page there was an estimate given of what kind of time would pass between releases, but I don't remember what it was.

Shaz (Tiptoeing through the tulips in Holland) Tue Jun 4 10:41:05 1996
Sue:
Yes, I want to be called Shaz (a nickname for Sharon which I picked up a few years ago during my "British Adventure"). I'll give the Mouse Circus another read, though the last time I even started considering analyzing it I was struck with a migraine. My earliest reaction to "At the Mouse Circus" was that I would have an easier time understanding it if I had actually taken hallucinogens while I was in college. Oh well, was just a thought. Stay tuned--she might just find her way through that schizophrenic tale yet!

Sue Luesse (Oh, shut up - it's a short PS) Tue Jun 4 10:02:06 1996

Rick - Lost the last three lines this time. No loss from my post - but what am I missing from everyone else?!?

There was supposed to be a new paragraph beginning with Darren.

Try High - Fly Straight - Drive Safe

Sue Luesse (jaluesse@htonline.com) Tue Jun 4 09:51:12 1996

Hi there, Shaz, Darren, and Charles.. You guys must have the magic touch to draw Rick away from the exotic pleasures of Real Life into a post! I think I'm jealous.. ;-)

Shaz and Charles (is that what you want to be called?) - (This one's for you, Jason) - Would you care to comment on At The Mouse Circus? I really liked the insights you gave on Driving the Spikes, and the justice issue. Darren - A Grand idea. I didn't even know Roger Zelazny was deceased until I got 'plugged' into the Net a month or so ago. Left me with a little ache, and no outlet. News to me, but old and of little interest everywhere else, leading people to respond "DUH" when I expressed my dismay. I crawled into bed, under the covers, and did not come out until I had re-read Lords of Light, and Creatures of Light And Darkeness. I'm not sure how one goes about such a task. Lots of e-mail to whom? I'm willing to try. Can anyone point this loose cannon in the right direction?

I've decided to get with the whole pc language thing and describe my personal vice (perhaps a developing addiction) as PNS (post Newbie Syndrome). Who knows, even in times of budget cut, downsizing frenzy, there may still be a golden trough grant in it..

Sorry Kris(ten), still no Strange Wine found. That is one of the problems with being nearsighted and not being able to wear contacts - I take off the glasses, put them down, can't find them without them on to see them, continue my 'task' without them, and generate Great Quests when what I thought was a thorough job turns out to be thoroughtly screwed up.. It's not with the fiction books. I'm going to try the stack of cookbooks next..

Shaz (remco@cas.et.tudelft.nl) Tue Jun 4 09:36:33 1996
Has anyone received the complete list of titles and release dates for White Wolf's new Ellison collection? I emailed an inquiry and have received no response.

Charles Morgan (cem@flex.net) Tue Jun 4 02:24:29 1996
Wonderful to be here, and equally so to here so many bright fans. New here and decided to jump in to the largest discussion, i.e. justice. Most are correct, there is none to be found in the homes of Mr. John Q. Public, and as HE has shown in many stories one has to make their own justice (altho' it would be nice if thier was some cosmic comptroller making the Dahmers and Hitlers make acounts balance in the hereafter) unfortunately that does us no good in the here and now who wish for that sharp stick in the ear for the Limbaughs out there. HE is human, and when we rage we wish all kinds of nastiness on the supposed villian (forced to watch 108 hours of Married with Children is a good start) but most of the time we rage in silence not wishing to be the bad guy, HE has always seemed to avoid that. He simply did what comes naturally (I'm sure he'd love a time that he didn't have to be both Paladin and Truth-sayer). I don't condone the actual act, but once again we take what justice and sense of fairness we can.

Finished reading Edgeworks, loved it again (wish the schmuck I lent my original copy of Over The Edge to years ago hadn't disapeared in a cloud of smoke and a hearty up yours---maybe HE can give me the name of that hitman...hmm), so much so I bought two more copies to send to friends. Cant wait for the rest, and will happily plunk down my scheckles for them. Well, guess I spoke enough, better close before the rest of you decide the new guy types wayyy to much and decide to call the WEB patrol on me to perhaps talk to me about finding my mouse cord in bed with me. >:>

Rick Wyatt (webmaster@harlanellison.com) Mon Jun 3 21:48:39 1996
Couldn't agree more about Zelazny. I've read his first set of "Amber" novels three times, and I love the rest of his work, especially a little book with Saberhagen called _Coils_.

Here is some information sent to me via e-mail roundabout from the Dangerous Visions bookstore:

1. Children of the Streets and Sound of a Sythe have never been published. Harlan liked the titles and listed them in all his books, but that's it :)
2. The Fantasies of Harlan Ellison was a hardcover only from Gregg Press. ($$) It came out in 1979 and contains Paingod and I Have No Mouth...
3. The Book of Ellison was published by Andy Porter's Algol Press without Harlan's Permission. It had 1800 trade pbs and 200 hardcovers. As a result, both states are quite expensive.
4. A Touch of Infinity is half of an Ace Double. The other side (also by Harlan) is A Man with Nine Lives. These run about $12 - $30 depending on condition and are terrible, terrible sci-fi.
5. Time of the Eye is a British collection of stories that appeared in US editions.
6. The Illustrated Harlan Ellison had a simultaneous hardcover/trade pb printing from Baronet back in the late 70's. Ace put out an edited version in a regular size paperback later on. Oh yeah, it's also in black and white. (yuk)

Darren Mon Jun 3 13:43:27 1996
Just a thought. About a year ago, the world lost someone very special. His name was Roger Zelazny, and he was one hell of a writer. Besides writing Amber novels, he was a real craftsman with a short story. "For a breath I tarry", "Rose for Ecclesiasties", and many others do him credit. His novel "Lord of Light" actually brought him a Hugo (I may or may not be correct on the award). I miss his writing, as I think many readers do, but I also miss the recognition that he never really received for his contributiuons to the genre. SFWA (the Sci Fi Writers of America) propose an award / title that honor certain authors with that shows how much that author has brought to the arena of science fiction and fantasy. It is called the Grand Master. Some authors have recieved that title, Andre Norton for one, and Asimov for another. But it is not distributed regularly and I think it would make a difference if it would be. I know Rogers dead, but there are other authors like Philip Jose Farmer that have been producing the kind of science fiction that changes the way we think for ages now, and still no Grand Master. I think Roger deserves the respect, even posthumously, of being called a Grand Master. I hope that someday, we'll see that. If anyone knows how we can get SFWA will listen, please leave a note here.
Thanks.

Sue Luesse (Geez!) Sun Jun 2 13:15:13 1996

Hey, thanks for all the e-mail. I had no idea it was that big a deal, and still think it really wasn't. Not like I was the only person in creation with the ability to do it. I just happened to be the first angry schmoe on the scene.

To all - The extent of my injuries is some soreness, and unsightly bruising on my middle back and upper arms. I'm diabetic, so those bruises are real beauts to look at - but not serious. I was wearing full protective gear for riding the bike at the time of the incident. Had on a full face shielded helmet, padded jacket, gloves, and chaps, and shin high re-inforced boots. They aren't looking so hot, but they sure do a good job protecting from injury (from any source).

Having a wondeful weekend. And now I will get back to it.

Try High - Fly Straight - Drive Safe

Sue Luesse (Chilling with the KKK on the County Courthouse Steps) Sat Jun 1 10:46:55 1996

Yup. That's a for real thing. The KKK had a rally on the County Courthouse steps during the Annual MelonFest, white robes and all. I had the indecency to show up and chat (aren't all bikers low class, bigotted scum? - welcomed with open arms..). Stayed long enough to identify (by voice, and peeking through the large sagging eyeholes in hoods} who was 'in there', and call them LOUDLY by name as we spoke. Funny how 'right' it is - until everyone knows who you are... I asked LOUDLY how come all those RICH folks were in white sheets instead of the Designer sheets their High Station merits. Crowd laughed. KKK's got ticked off. Pushy-shovey ensued. Even sympathizers didn't like a White Woman getting pushed around. Local Gendarmes broke it up. I now have several court dates on my calendar (Assault & Battery charges against several KKK's), an interesting addition to my medical history (I wondered if the police pix would be included), and some very sore and bruised bits to nurse for a while.
And it only took from 8am to 10:30am.. Was home a little before 11. Not bad for a few hours work. I doubt it will even make the local newspapers (since the Executive Editor was one of the people I identified, and he wasn't charged with anything).
That's The Way It Is. State Highway Commission never assigns minorities to our county for road work (had a shooting incident a few years back, that never made the papers either), but there aren't any racists here. Last Fall Jimmy, the last Negroe (his description of choice) in our town of the twenty families that have been here since beore statehood, almost burned to death when a cross on the lawn wasn't enough, and they set fire to his house with him in it at 2 am. Jimmy was 83, and refused to leave because four generations of his family were buried here (including his wife). That wasn't in the news either.
I can't change The Way It Is (God knows, I would if I could). I can visit Jimmy regularly (in the extended care facility, still undergoing rehab and reconstructive surgeries, and planning to come back to his home - THAT guy has guts), and keep up the graves of his family for him. And tell him there are three of the bigots going to have a tough time explaining to their employers (Glass House Ford, Univ. of Mich., and the Ann Arbor News) why they couldn't show up for work Monday, and may not be in to work for 5-7 years with time off for 'good behaviour'.

Is it Justice? Is it Revenge? It is ABSOLUTELY channelled anger. Analyzing, speculating, theorizing, trying to UNDERSTAND what the hell is going on.. all well and good. But real life is never that simple. I offer the incident for thought. I feel no regret, or guilt. I feel satisfaction. Why did I do it? Because it needed to be done.

Sore, and satisfied, I will kick back for the rest of the weekend. Make plans for Chi-ComicCon, and enjoy the warm feelings of anticipation. The 'incident' is over. One small event in much larger life. And life goes on.

BTW - my hubby came up with a few 'names' for "post-newbie-syndrome" (PNS).. PuterPhreak, and Web-stir (or Webster).. I like that last one. It brings to mind images of little furry things in cages running like crazy in place to turn a large wheel.. Kind of how I feel sometimes, clicking along like crazy through a spinning Cyberspace of words while parked in the study. Try High - Fly Straight - Drive Safe

WolfMistress (Cavorting with Cows on the Concourse....) Fri May 31 15:40:40 1996
'Ello, All! Yup, the above is for really, partly. "Cows on the Concourse" is an annual event in Madison, capitol of Cow & Cheese country. The Concourse is the capitol lawns and surrounding fountains. They do it every year and give away milk and boxes of cereal to the kids....Don't look at me like that! I just live here, alright? They were doing it when I got here....

Anyway, I think I still have an e-mail problem as given forth in The Esoteric Canon of Most Holy Computers and Their Sacred Networks (nevermind peripherals; they're not that important). Thanks to various Whiz-Bangs in IS, part of my network went North this morning! When they tried to route part of the Canadian section of our WAN through another Hub, it lost some of the IP addresses needed to maintain Internet connections, and dragged part of us with it!!

I'm still trying to figure out how that happened, other than the fact that we all connect to the main mail-server cluster in Glenview (Illinois). Pieces of various Canadian groups are still in limbo somewhere. They may or may be connected to the proper hubs. Northfield, Ill., where several of the Canadian offices come together before being sent on, had some sort of wack-out that messed everything up for about an hour. And I have *chosen* to work with this stuff to make a living. Insanity reigns....!

Jason - Are you Canadians doing something fishy to our WAN? (just teasing)! ;~) Actually, the Canadian section runs more flawlessly than the Stateside part more often than not. What does this tell us?????

Anyway, will do the best I can. For what it's worth, I miss Jim Hess' comments around here. Hope he comes back soon.

If I don't get back to you today, have a great weekend!

keegan (dreaming in Ithaca) Fri May 31 13:59:17 1996
Nothing to do with HE. Just wanted to say thanks for the civil conversation about "Driving in the Spikes". I enjoyed weighing out everyone's arguments and opinions in my head. I certainly have a more expanded view of the piece now. Thank you.

Shaz, man--welcome aboard (and if you're female, I hope ya don't take offense. I call everyone "man". Jazz musician thing.) Anyway, welcome. Hope ya hook up with all the HE you need. This page and its supporters will help, I'm sure.

WM- I can't think of a clever name for what Sue is, now that she's no longer a newbie. All I could come up with was "cyberchick" and somehow that just ain't HIP enough. Too close to "cipher". Anybody else give it a thought? The only other thing that came to mind was "once you're not a newbie, you're a geek" but we'd all take umbrage at that, hmmm? I love a person who's hard to label! :)

Rick-been a long time, man. Miss ya. Thanks for the free reign (read "trust"). Hope all's well.

Sue Again Fri May 31 13:19:11 1996

Lost the last two lines of my post, Rick.. No real loss I guess.

Also - please read (so) between the comma after ..done) and it.

Off to simple pleasures.. Let the heavy stuff filter through and settle.. Try High - Fly Straight - Drive Safe

Sue Luesse (Down to a GlowWorm and a Comic under the covers ) Fri May 31 13:14:29 1996

Nice to see you Shaz. I appreciate the perspective. I'm pretty sure I shot my wad on Spikes, and have nothing new to add (and I trust no one on the Board requires endless repetition, so I'm done), it is nice to have someone else keep the ball rolling.

Rick - Hope you don't mind the extra-Harlanesque use of the board. I couldn't think of any other way to let WM know there is a problem, since apparently her out-going is fine. I'm still smarting from my own computer crash, and subsequent loss of e-mail insight (Is this a HE kinda 'barge on through' thing I've done?). If it will 'even up' the score, I'll send a long, grovelling, self-deprecatory e-mail.

Sue Luesse (Shhh.. I'm not really here..) Thu May 30 20:09:28 1996

WM - Your Postmaster keeps sending back your e-mail - says s/he doesn't recognize you. What is he using? And how do I e-mail you?

Shaz - check out the Ellison News (click on it above) and scroll forever ago back to 1/4/96. City info is there.

Shaz (remco@cas.et.tudelft.nl) Thu May 30 18:02:11 1996
By the way, has there been any news on when the trade edition of
City on the Edge of Forever will be out? I am DYING to get my hands
on that!

Shaz (remco@cas.et.tudelft.nl) Thu May 30 17:55:07 1996
First, let me briefly introduce myself since I am new to the comment board.
I am a fairly new Ellison enthusiast, being introduced to his work by my best friend (you may have seen a post on here by him--he's working on the Mindfields multimedia ballet with Ellison's blessing).
A native of Texas (don't worry--I promise not to say "y'all" and "howdy" unless under physical torture), I now reside in Holland.
And if you thought it was hard to get an Ellison book where you are, try getting one here!
I am in my mid-twen