The Ellison Bulletin Board

Comments Archive - 04/25/96 to 05/16/96

Kris(ten) L. Homyk (if72@jove.acs.unt.edu) Wed May 15 18:51:56 1996
It's just me, I know it's just me. But I was REALLY upset about Edgeworks. Yes, like the rest of you, I waited and waited and waited for it, and yes, like the rest of you, I snatched up the first copy I found and smacked it on the bookstore's counter not even caring that Mastercard already owns an arm, a leg, and both ears. I rushed home to immerse (sp?) myself in HE, anticipating that high that comes from spending a great amount of time reading GOOD STUFF. It didn't come. The stuff is still really great, it's Ellison at his best, but when your train of enjoyment is blown every fifteen seconds by yet another editing mistake, somehow it's not as good. I really wish that White Wolf had been a bit more careful. In one story, the bad guy's last name changes from one page to the next for no discernible reason other than the fact that someone put it in there wrong. "Xenogenesis" affected me deeply, except for some of the missing letters and the misspellings in the italicized parts.
I'm upset that I paid that kind of money to find out that our page is called "Ellison Webterland." No, I'm not ungrateful, I was desperate for new Ellison, too, but it seems very out of character for Harlan, of all people, to let any publishing company do this to the readers. I intend to write White Wolf and request that they take their responsibilities to this literary genius and his readers most seriously in the future. My recommendation to everyone who does not yet own the book would be to go ahead and buy it if you don't mind really poor spellchecker-style editing ("trunk" in one place should be "truck"). If you do mind, however, wait for a possible paperback or reprint -- maybe they'll get their act together.

keegan Wed May 15 18:41:04 1996
Yeah, WolfMistress. I heard ya loud and clear on all fronts. Would love to see your costume sometime. Sounds gorgeous! I don't have a problem with that either. It's art. I do have a problem with one-dimensional people and I guess that's why I take a break from reading HE every once in a while (even though I now have access to loads of it). Good to shine up the other facets of the mind once in a while.

Thanks for bringing up "Night of Delicate Terrors". Harsh and yet beautifully written. Harlan does an exceptional job presenting palpable projections of humanity. His characters take on "life" within the mind of the reader. A strange aside about labels and race: I have had to deal with my whiteness in strange ways and the strangest of all is that I'm sometimes mistaken for a light skinned black woman. It is interesting that the people who ask, wonder, or assume this are usually African-American. I have never claimed to be anything other than what I am, but I admire African influenced art, writing and thought (no less or more so than I admire all meaningful expressions of the human spirit, really) and have been tempted myself to "pass". "Pennies, Off a Dead Man's Eyes" has a strange resonance for me. "Night of Delicate Terrors" was the harsh truth my elders hinted at in high-school, "No, you don't really want to be black". That was it. 'Nuff said, but not really. I don't care WHAT color I am, I'm just sick of the occasional dunderhead who tells me I'm the wrong one (and yes, that has been said to me a few times--usually by whitey).

WolfMistress (Making the Sound of the Scythe....Part II) Wed May 15 16:07:20 1996

As for "Soft Monkey", well, I think "A Night of Delicate Terrors" speaks as many volumes. Trouble with me personally is that I'm tired of all of it. I am Hungarian-Russian on my Mom's side, and Black-Choctaw Indian on my Dad's side. What does this make me? An American!! Not an Afro-American or a Hungarian-American -- just plain American, okay? Can you get to this, as Marvin Gaye sang?

Let go of the labels. Just let 'em go. They'll float right away because they are so much empty air, anyway. People get twisted over use of the "N"-word, but calling someone 'white trash' is all right? Excuse me?!? I've listened to it all my life from my Dad's side of the family, which is why my Mom, my son and I don't have anything to do with them. Us against Them. Welcome to the Promised Land.

I'll go, before I'm accused of starting race riots in Webderland....;-)

WolfMistress (Making the Sound of the Scythe....) Wed May 15 16:06:26 1996
Decided to trash today's Doctor appointment. To hell with their empty benedictions of doom and destruction. I rescheduled for next week. The mood will not allow civility to these High Priests of our aching society to whom I pay $200 a month for the privilege of being assaulted by their distant thunder. I wreak havoc with their stuffed sanctity by posing *questions* in their native tongue -- they marvel and mutter as did the Philistines gathered about the Galilean. Having neither His kindness nor patience, I sneer and turn away from them. What do they know of *me*, anyway??

Keegan - As a well-seasoned Convention goer, "Xenogenesis" is right on the money. As I stated some time back -- those particular fans are the ones with no life at all. I've known many who worked simply to be able to afford the costumes, and the membership fees, and the hotel rooms -- it's all they had. And while I see nothing wrong with wearing Romulan 'garb' (I won a Best in Show for my WolfMistress outfit at Darkover Con about 8 years ago. The crowning glory of it was a Renaissance-style over-robe of the very *good* black velvet ((25 yards, $18/yard)) lavishly decorated with a phoenix design made in over 1500 seed pearl beads, every one of which I attached by hand ((so if I lost 1, I wouldn't lose the whole row!)). That was the one and only time I ever entered a costume competition, and I also won the "Best in Show for a Beginner" from the National Costumers Guild (they do CostumeCon every year). I did it to prove a point. Point made, I never did it again, although I always wore my 'garb' at every Con I went to. The point is, I did it for fun, and because I have created an entire private Universe characters whom I have written a shitload of stories about over the last 20 years. Novels, short storie, whatever. I've never tried for publication because they are *my* fantasy, not be shared with anyone unless I choose to.

But it is a fantasy. I know the difference between the two. I love being "Lady Ma'Rathia, WolfMistress of Wykenwyrd" for a weekend. It's a great blast; healthy cathartic experience. But Sunday night, I cease being The WolfMistress and prepare for Monday morning. There are too many in fandom who cannot do that.

Their lives are empty, pointless, without meaning unless they are playing someone else. Klingon, Romulan, Deryni, whatever. That's what pushed me away from Cons on a regular basis -- too many who couldn't leave the 'persona' at the hotel. It isn't healthy for them, and was having a negative effect on me. Given my physical problems, I would love to *really* be The WolfMistress - weilder of magick & all sorts of powers, attended by the WereWolves of Wykenwyrd, who do her every bidding, an accomplished warrior who will take you out with any weapon, any time, or her arsenal of martial arts....

See what I mean? It would be nice to live the fantasy, and I do - for a weekend at a Con. Others cannot drop it so readily. I've known fans who insist that their "mundane" life is the fantasy! Honest!

So, Keegan, I think you are more than stable enough to go to a SF Con without losing yourself along the way. Actually, since this is a Comic con, I don't know if the atmosphere is the same as at a real SF Convention. Who knows? Who cares? You're going to have fun, period.

keegan Wed May 15 14:58:35 1996
Oh, and Jim- your post left me alternately laughing and grinding my teeth. Ellison under the counter like cheap porno or illegal firearms? Oy! What chowderheads!

keegan (memos from limbo) Wed May 15 14:14:49 1996
Thinking about this "fandom" thing. "Xenogenesis" just left me with my jaw hanging. I can't believe (but, ah, I *do* believe) that people would do such outrageous things to individuals they DON'T EVEN KNOW. I thank God some days that I'm not famous because dammit, at least I have privacy and it doesn't cost me thousands of dollars in bodyguards and home alarm systems. Honestly, I guess the thing about fandom that scares me is that some folks get so focused on the fantasy they lose touch with Reality. They forget that authors and actors and the ilk are mere mortals who eat and shit like the rest of us. And yes, who can be hurt and angered.

So here I am, tooling 'round in Webderland everyday, buying every book I can afford and get my hands on, and trying to figure out if I really want to take that trip to Chicago in hopes of meeting Harlan (and Sue Luesse) up close and personal. Oh God. I smell the stench of "fandom".

But then I say, "Screw it. Who cares?" Harlan made it clear in his essay that MOST fans are not pre-adolescent burger brains walking around in adult-size Romulan costumes; armed with insult, poor taste and a cup of warm vomit. This is one time I should stick with the majority and keep a healthy respect for feelings and personal space of those whose work I ardently admire. After all, isn't that what I'd want if I acheived that elusive fame? And wasn't there some Jewish guy who once said, "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you,"? Yeah, so maybe he stole it from that Chinese guy (or more likely from the Persian guy) but the wisdom remains.

Sue--I've had the opportunity to consider your take on the social worker's particular use of "soft monkey" and I think you're dead on target. Harlan does not shy away from dealing with white man's burden of guilt and ignorant stereotyping. "Pennies, Off a Dead Man's Eyes" is another very interesting HE take on "the race situation"

Jason-Congratulations! Sounds like an interesting day all around for YOU! WolfMistress-hang tough and give 'em hell. The medical establishment needs a good kick in the pants. Thinking of you as always.

That's enough, n'est-ce pas? Keep readin' and writin', all!

WolfMistress (Listening for the Sound of the Scythe.....) Wed May 15 11:53:05 1996
Sue - it's not you; it's me. Yesterday was a day of disasters. A supposedly knowledgable colleague did something Monday night that ended up crashing my network, which I learned upon arrival at work. Coat still on, totebag in hand, they assail me with "What did *you* do to the Domain Logon list? We can't logon!" What did *I* do to it??!??! Joking, they were, but my mood couldn't track it just then. The first of many mugs of coffee was gotten, and problem was eventually traced, tracked, and otherwise laid at the proper door. Which didn't keep me from having to put out all the brushfires caused by said f**kup by certain persons!

It has been grey and raining for 2 days now, again, and we will have no spring this year. Body is in full rebellion, have appointment with Rheumatologist this afternoon. More poking and prodding. Have another Friday with the Primary Physician; he's the only one I like and respect because he respects me and my knowledge of my own condition. The others look down their haughty noses as if I have unlawfully plumbed the depths of Divine Secrecy or something when I respond in kind to their 50-cent-a-word jargon.

Spent years studying anatomy and orthopedics and all related subjects. This is *my* body, dammit, and I *will* know what you think you're going to do to it! Great wreath of angry sadness prevails. Tired, so tired of fighting. Spirit and temperament will not allow otherwise. Assail the heavens with clenched fist, not caring the arms are too short to box with God....Try hard not to sweat the small stuff; "it's a long walk back to Eden" (SK, 'Insomnia'). Feeling like Paul in Lonelyache, sans suicidal tendancies. Adrift, and it keeps on raining. Forgive overspill of morbidity. Keeping the dark sides perpetually caged is a bitch.

Carry on. Will return when Humanity returns.

James C. Hess Wed May 15 11:52:35 1996
Oh, my. The gods of cyberspace doth smile upon this groveling slime of self once more.

Thank you, thank you, thank you whomever it was who left a FREE copy of EDGEWORKS Vol. 1 upon the step of my humble abode this fine and sweet morning. (Thanks for propping it against the front door, dingo-head. I couldn't figure out why the door wouldn't open right until I went out through the garage and looked. Next time you wish to bestow this rumbler with such gifts, leave it where I can find it immediately. Better still, ring the bell and wait for moi to answer your inquiry. If I don't appear soon, then leave it against the door.)

A couple of quick thoughts about said tome:

First, yesterday I got into a discussion with the local deadhead bookdealer who works the counter at the local Barnes & Noble outlet. Said deadhead told me he had never read Ellison. --sigh-- I suggested he get himself a copy of the soon-to-be released EDGEWORKS and read it. He replied--so seriously and honestly--he does read Science Fiction. (The implication being HE is only a sci-fi writer. Grrrrrrrrl. Hissssss.) Yes, I did beat him about head and ears and left him in the gutter. Oh, the stupidity and nonsense one must endure in the pursuit things literary.

Second, now that I have in my grubby little paws said Tome of words by The Great One, I will have to do yet another rewrite of the long overdue essay "Whistling In The Dark To A Tone-Deaf Choir With Bent And Frayed Organs (or "Fighting Illiteracy With The Writings of Harlan Ellison and Co.")".
This means it will be yet awhile longer before I get that item done and Out There.

Third, I just called my local D. Dalton bookstore outlet and they tell me they do have this here book in stock. But they are keeping it behind the counter and one must ask for it by name. (This from the same people who built a monolithic display hawking Hillary R. Clinton's so-called effort that I have repeatedly tripped over? --sigh--)

Oh, well...

I'll cuddle down beneath the sheets to become the shape, turn on the weakening flashlight and indulge myself 'til I do go blind from reading.

Jim

Sue Luesse (jaluese@htonline.com) Wed May 15 10:52:54 1996

SSsssighhh. Life is still the same. I still get no deference from the skater-dudes. No checks come in the mail. I'm still waiting to be asked for tea at the Big Houses. What's going on here? Doesn't everyone know that HARLAN ELLISON (who??) may have read a post *I* wrote on a Webderland (what??) Comments Board on the Web(huh??).. Come on guys!! Choice, and Free Will.. I am satisfied with my life the way it is. That's why I choose what I do, and exercise a lot of Will to make chosen possibilities reality. If you don't like something, say so - and we'll have a good time bitching about it. If something has significance and meaning to you, say so - and I'll fan (and that's the other definition, which I prefer) the embers of that warm good stuff. If you choose to be ambivilent, don't make assumptions about my response, and hold me culpable for your reaction to your assumptions about my response. If it bothers you, clarify your statement, or ask me to clarify mine. Either works.

Clarification. People mean something to me. Things are nice, but most often not necessary. Things with sentimental value are best. Next best are things that stimulate life. Stockpiling things to parade and generate envy has been whited out on my priorities list. I don't have time to waste parading or guarding them. There are still too people to meet, and unknowns to experience. If I happen to have a 'collectable' among my large collection of things, it is purely accidental (and not the reason it is among my things).

So, Rick, take my Devil-made-me-do-it, twinkle-in-the-eye postings for what they are. I was tempted to do a 'Bart Simpson/Krusty the Klown', and mail you a check to endorse (the amount of the check signifying how much I want to be sure to get the autographs).. But decided not to bother. I'm already on record with regard to Webderland, and you.

And now, for something comletely different... Soft Monkeys. (and yes, I did read the intro first - remember me, the one who likes 'context'). Rick is right. The 'Soft Monkey' label was applied to research into bonding, and involved not only Mommy Orangs and surrogates, but also the babies removed and surrogates. My point? The story involves two seperate but related threads 1. Annie vs. the mob, and 2. Alan. 1 is the most obvious - surrogate mothering. 2. is darker. Nameless, faceless, Social Agency Lady come in the name of all that is good to remove a child she did nothing to keep alive (representing what moral highground and hypocracy?) with soft, christian charity (that does not keep Annie off the street) pronounces 'gentle' judgement with the words 'Soft Monkey' (Soft=weak, ineffective, Monkey=subhuman,perjorative term for blacks). The 'nice white couple' put $20 on her chest, but don't want to know if she survives or not.. Hmmm.. It couldn't be a social commentary.. Not from Harlan Ellison, that great HE of fiction.. And what about the 'tragedy' of Alan?? The findings of those Bonding experiments showed babies deprived of bonding became 'anti-social', emotionally disfunctional, and unable to provide for their own needs. So was Alan doomed to a tragic death, or saved from a fate worse than death? Was Annie a victim? She was at home and comfortable where she was, needs met, content and at peace. She beat the mob. Her living was successful in every way - in HER terms. We should all be so lucky.

So why did I ask? Because a truth told (even as a story) has more ways than one to be seen, and requires lots of different perspectives to unfold understanding. I only have one take of the many there are, and want to hear others. Unfortunately, people tend to let a single answer suffice, and move on if one is offered. I wanted more than just one point of view. Geez! I think rigor mortis is setting in.. I suddenly feel Old, Unmoving, Petrified.. How about this - I'll e-mail anyone who asks, my (ahem) Authoritative Pronouncements (and thou willt SMILE upon receipt), and leave this venue open to the people stuff I prefer..

The trouble with anything that can be vaguely linked to 'intellect', is that it sours to ego so quickly and easily, and then becomes a full contact competitive sport. It may be a 'game', but no one wins, people get hurt, and it's no fun. I like to play with my mental blocks, and see what cool stuff can be built (by anyone). Rather be a happy spirit, than a rigid 'brain'. And being wrong is a much better time than being right (aaaahh, the memories that surge).

Hopefullly, I'll overcome this parasitic solemnity by my next post - get back to being me, having fun.

jt - got any of those Pollyana Pills left? I could use a few. Have them analyzed. Find the anti-dote...

Try High - Fly Straight - Drive Safe

Jason (Still waiting for Edgeworks) (It's times like this when I really hate being in another country) Tue May 14 23:24:49 1996
Bear with me. My cat just had kittens, I'm in a strange mood
Well said Rick, although I'm little confused, weren't you always a "somebody"? I mean everybody's a somebody right? Even those we would normally dismiss as Dan-Quayle-Clone-Children are somebodies. If you mean somebody as in somebody famous, then yes and no you are. But fame has nothing to do with nothing. BTW for everybody out there, I've found a hidden page of goodies that Rick doesn't seem to have a link to on the home page. It's http://www.snider.net/ellison/text/ it's a bit of this and that, mostly stories and essays by Rick, some interesting stuff, i might e-mail you someday about the reaper man, Rick. We'll see. I think you're right about Soft Monkey. It makes sense.
This page is a good place. It gives me news on an authour about whom very little is written about. It is a place where we hold disscussions about several things not just the author in question. Am I a fan of said author? If you take the dictionary definition, 'an ardent admirer of a person' then yes I am a fan, but when HE talks about his dislike for fans I think he's talking about Trekkers/trekkies/I-have-no-life/yes-massa-no-massa people. One of which I do not consider myself. Those are the people Harlan loathes, either that or it's a Groucho Marx 'I wouldn't want to join any club that would have me as a member' sort of thing.
As to what I consider myself, I am an admirer of HE and his work, and would very much like to engage him in conversation someday. Maybe it's because I have a death wish I don't know. I would like him to read my stories because I think he would enjoy it.
As to Chicago, I need to earn/win/steal some money first.
Here's a topic for disscussion At the Mouse Circus does anyone understand it?
Your humble servant, (and part time midwife, midhusband?, midbachelor?) Jason

Kris (kagricola@amhs.com) Tue May 14 18:45:07 1996
Keegan - Nicely put. This web page truly IS a labor of love and that is exactly what makes its creator stand apart.

Rick - Glad you have no problems welcoming constructive criticism, but it would seem you need to relax and enjoy the positive feedback. It is well deserved.

Counting this web page as one of MY blessings,

-- Kristine

keegan (jazz god (okay, it's weak, but I'm dreamin' here)) Tue May 14 15:43:54 1996
Just came up for a breath of fresh air after beginning "Edgeworks". Do you know how hard it was to let that thing sit on the front seat of my car while I made my appointed rounds of rehearsals? I even picked the book up and opened it at a red light then realized that I was doing something that could possibly kill a few innocent folk. I stopped, plowed through my day and have happily spent the last couple of hours bookworming it.

"Xenogenesis" is highly recommended writing for those hoping to meet Mr. Ellison for the first time at Chi Comic Con. It could save your life. And Rick, what makes you SOMEBODY is not that HE mentioned you in an essay (though I, for one, am positively chartreuse with envy). What makes you somebody is your labor of love here. Thanks for doing it. It means much to all of us who love HE's stuff but had difficulty locating it. If anyone's got a problem with that, it must be because they're cheezed 'cause they didn't think of it (or DO it) first.

Rick (webmaster@harlanellison.com) Tue May 14 14:45:49 1996
Yes, I am aware that Webderland and my own "wily" self were mentioned in the preface to _Edgeworks_, Vol I. That's neat, I'm glad HE did it, but it doesn't make me a better person or a "somebody". Let's move on.
Yes, I am equally aware that there are people who resent this and/or think I'm a consummate fan-boy and/or think the web site is as cool as a dried-up dog turd. That's cool, you're all entitled to your respective informed opinions, and I have always welcomed criticism with open arms - which is a good thing because God knows those of you who don't like the site don't have any problems letting me know about it! So thanks for your comments and be sure and don't let the socket close on you on your way out.

Sue - Your best bet for getting an autograph of either Ellison *or* me is to send a SASE to the HERC for HE's John Hancock or to the address on the Want-Ads page for mine.

As for "Soft Monkey" - not sure, but I'd bet the title is a reference to a classic study on monkeys where a wireframe covered in cloth and vaguely monkey-shaped was chosen by baby monkeys over a bare wire frame, even a bare frame with working milk nozzles...the monkeys thought the "soft monkey" was their mother. Does that make any sense?

And finally - 17:01:44? I *seriously* doubt we're stretching the limits of synchronicity with that time, especially since that's the time I copied the e-mail to this page, not when Harlan sent it. But hey, whatever makes you feel like the universe is a strange and wondrous place, I'm all for it...

James C. ("That's MR. cyberpunk to you") Hess (Dan Simmons And Thomas Pynchon were--NOT--separated at birth) Tue May 14 13:30:07 1996
First, a gracious and wonderful THANK YOU to the Best Friend-type person, Taz, who knows more about everything than I could possibly hope to know in a hundred life times, for arranging this little cyberhack number since my e-mail has gone by and by and since I am on the road now.

Second, the reason I am moving a boat out of said back yard is so as to trailer it to a really big body of water where it will remain until a) I get thoroughly sick of polishing the teak and painting the bottom and sell it or b) I die.

Third, just a quick note to y'all to let you know that I will be back on-line around the first of June. In the meantime you all can lob mail in my direction by way of snail mail, if'n youse iz so inclined.

Fourth, will this wonderful new tome type thingie by HE be in mainstream bookstores any time soon or am I going to have to go snuffling about the dusty stacks of used bookstores to find it in, say, five years?

Well, that's all. Have fun. Try not to bite the neighbor's dog too much and too often, and remember:

Kathy Lee ain't.

Jim

Sue Luesse (Not just any old Mom) Tue May 14 12:47:45 1996

jt! (may I get familiar, and just call you "j"?) Thanks 'ever so' for the Edgeworks transcription - a thoughtful, kind thing to do for those who already have what they want of HE old stuff, and aren't willing to pay that much for the new introduction (or low enough to steal the library copy). Has someone been feeding you Pollyanna Pills? Were it not for the shock of realizing your e-mail is NOT angora, and is not an Ed Wood kind of thing, I might take umbrage. That, and I was laughing too hard..

I've tried my hardest, truly I have. I've joined every happening group with great enthusiasm. Put in a 100%. And to paraphrase Groucho - I've been told I 'embarass' the membership giving the group a 'bad' image by all the best and biggest. I don't suppose you've read my last two posts? How'm ah dune? Duz I gets ta stay? Iz Ah a FAN? Careful with those blanket statements, they tend to smother. But I'm still pleased to hear from you. Had a callous I needed to cut off, and it did the trick.

Jim - Next time tune in the Weather Channel (Network of Choice for Bikers). You could have just waited a few days, and sailed the darn thing where it needed to go..

Bill - big wave.. So nice to be acknowleged, and so few are pushy enough to demand it.

WolfMistress - yes, yes, yes, WHOA!! A womb? Back then, the 'back shelf' was common parlance for where things we don't intend to deal with go until it is convenient to throw them out - kind of a trash can part of the car. There was no room for the guy in the car, except 'on the back shelf' - and it didn't make him feel safe..

Thanks for the Convention wisdom. It's a definate go for us. We'll be there Saturday for as long as it takes to be politely asked to leave (or til the place shuts down, whichever comes first). Shall we gather at the river, or just listen for footsteps? I'm easy to spot. Be the one with a two inch brown stripe in the middle of red-dyed hair (nicely marbled with grey), in the purple leather long-fringed Acid Rock jacket, shorts, boots, and large flaps of black leather hanging from a belt.. How many of those can there be? (one too many). Should be a lot of fun - for me at least (and for my beloved other, who thought he married me for my money and got screwed). BTW - I liked the Wedgies allusion to Cosmic Hiccups. (the Universe smiles). Unfortunately - I think, therefore I spAsM - and have no one to blame but myself. I think the condition occurs from too many brain veggies..

Jason - don't have a place in Chicago to offer, but you're welcome to crash here on the way to and from. It's substandard, but cheap. However, federal regulations require me to inform you that should you exercise this option, no prosecution will be possible, since you will have already done your time..

Ah me! Such a wonderful life, when one is content to hold down last place.. the bottom of the totem pole which uplifts all others able to look down on it.. and can topple the whole system with a shrug...

Try High - Fly Straight - Drive Safe

WolfMistress (In the world of No Game(s) For Children....) Tue May 14 11:18:56 1996
To-morrow, and to-morrow and to-morrow, creeps in this petty pace from day to day,
To the last syllable of recorded time; and all our yesterdays have lighted fools
The way to dusty death. Out, out, brief candle! Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player
That struts and frets his hour upon the stage, and then is heard no more: it is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing. -- Macbeth, Act V, v.17

Jason & Sue - We were discussing Lonelyache, and I took the opportunity to re-read it last evening. I think I might understand HE's reference to the dream car, and the back window shelf being the key to the story.

It's obvious HE wrote this during or immediately after one of his divorces; since it was written when he was approx. 30 years old, I'd say it must have been his first, but I'm not sure. I have been there as well, and can totally relate to the emotions of the narrative, which is probably one reason why I avoid this particular story if at all possible. My divorce was finalized 20 years ago this month, but on close examination, some small portion of the pain still lingers - even if your end up thoroughly detesting and despising the former spouse.

I think the significance of the car, window, and the "fuzzy" thing the children are sitting on has to do with the security of The Family.

The man driving is considered strong, and protective; the way fathers were viewed (at least in my generation); the kids are playful, holding off the "fuzzy" loneliness of that lack of security. And the space in the back window -- the womb. Warm, closed, secure. Maybe a sense of an "adult womb", where you can see all the things encroaching on you, but it doesn't matter so much because you have that security of home, of loved ones, of kids. The feeling of unconditional love. A rarity, true, but out there, if we're willing to wait long enough.

Of course, the significance of Paul never killing any of his "dream assassins" with a gun, was that they were all inner reflections of his own "ego ideal", himself. He couldn't use the gun on them; he had to use it on his "real" self - in the same way he killed the guy with the poker - right into the eye. There's a certain significance to the eyes, too, but I'll get to that later.

A million little fires this morning, and non can put them out but me - or so they like for me to believe. I know better, but that the hell? It's a living.

Tue May 14 10:14:53 1996
Damn! it should be "I'm not biting, you're going to have to find someone else to play with."

Jason (The E-mail address is Burning) Tue May 14 10:12:55 1996
Sorry JT I'm not buying your going to have to find someone else to play with.

Jump on your head T (jt_neville@agora.stanford.edu) Tue May 14 10:00:34 1996
From Edgeworks by Harlan Ellison. The introduction.

"Introduction: Good Morning, Folks; I am not Kathie Lee Gifford

As I understand it, you have never bought a book before. I am informed that many of you have never seen a book before, and know not what a book is. The way the news gets to me is...you were raised by wolves, who spent a lot of time watching television, and who have remarkable eye to paw coordination when it comes to playing arcade games, but there just weren't any of these odd shaped __book__ things lying around the cave.

I'm with you, folks. Tender loving nurturing, that's my best game. I'll ease you into this book thing like lowering a quadriplegic into a whirlpool bath. Warm and easy without a ripple. ellison is the name. Double-O Seven. Or maybe even Eight. Only time will tell.

[snip]

But I cannot lie. I am a trouble maker. I eat mashed potatoes with a fork, but that's only because I don't much care for amshed potatoes and using a fork means I can't eat very much at one time; but I am not above using my hands.

So I'm trying to do the best, the most candid, I can...this introduction, and all; and I hope you take my pathetic sincerity as much for apologia as for howdy do.

So let me, finally, get to it. I think the reader who buys this first volume of what White Wolf ambitiously refers to as __The Collected Ellison__, should not be duped into thinking I am other than what I am. The stories I write are of a special kind, in a voice that is my own, and attempting to "put a good face" to make me seem as acceptable as, say, Mother Teresa, would be a fraud. If the reader who hefts this first __Edgeworks__ volume likes what I so, she or he will want more, an White Wolf will issue more volumes. Then they will make vast sums of money, I can go on being arrogant, and we'll all be happy because no one lied to anyone else. Which seems to me to be the way to run a successful relationship."

Ok now the big time. Instead of pushing that button and reloading a few times to pump up Rick's ego, Mr. Ellsion has done it for us. Page 17 of the introduction.

I quote:

"There is also a web page. heaven help me. It is run by a very nice guy who has serious brain-stem damage (I imagine, otherwise why would he spend his valuable time doing this?) name of Rick Wyatt. If you want to read more about the author of this series of volumes -- the kid with the bare ass back there -- you can plug into the web at:

http://www/snider.net/ellison

and Mr. Wyatt calls it Ellison Webterland (wily pun on my book title pun ELLISON WONDERLAND)....[snip]"

This is very cool but I think it in itself sums it up. I for one, and from the sweet smell in here, the only one would pleasantly pleased not to read any of that sickening fawning at Mr. Wyatt's doorstep but I'm sure you all will have to try to top Mr. Ellison's praise with your own. Ahh well, Mr. Ellison has his wolves and for me it is the monkey house. Enjoy your breakfast kids, I hope this little granola nugget hit the spot. Don't forget "DRINK MILK".

The Apes Will Rule.

keegan Mon May 13 22:16:33 1996
Aha! Found it--Chicago Comic Con June 21-23. Hey, that's when school gets out! Hmmmmmmmm.....

Bookstore called late this afternoon. "Edgeworks" will be in my hot little hands tomorrow!

WM- liked your suggestion for moving a boat mired in mud. Makes sense to me (though the neighbors might not see the logic). Sorry to hear you're in pain and that the healing process entails yet more to come. I remember my brother going through this sort of thing after he broke his neck. Physical Terrorists was his term for the therapists who helped him learn to walk again. Stay strong and curse loud-it helps to vent.

So, my bassist-a very talented young man who's featured as one of this month's promising young players in DOWNBEAT- is graduating from high school soon. He's reading Shakespeare, Sartre, and Chaucer (for fun) but hasn't had the pleasure of reading Ellison. I plan to buy him "Essential Ellison" as a graduation gift. A good choice? Or could I do better?

WolfMistress (In The Garden, where The Voice is giggling uncontrollably.... ) Mon May 13 17:02:52 1996
Since this strange e-mail address business was my idea, I feel duty-bound to always have one ready, but some days, the brain-strain gets really evil....

Vilkommen, Leigh Anne. (God, I've lived in Wisconsin too long)! We are the assorted nuts & bolts of Harlan Ellison appreciators who have been attracted by Rick Wyatt's All-Purpose, Interdimensional, Web Bug-Light. (Try to say *that* five times real fast)!

If I'm being a little outre', it's because I have been to The Doctor's (spelled D-e-m-o-n-'s) Lair and I am angry, upset, and mostly sad. All of which need to be jettisoned as quickly as possible for my greater good. I have a problem with strong emotions. They make me want to rend, maim, and generally make a mess that's pure hell to clean up. Stuff sticks to the walls and the ceiling, and floor gets all slimy....

Suffice it to say more foul and inhuman things will be done to The Body next week, if I keep the appointment. At the moment, I have no intention keeping it. Dr. Licklinder (real name, swear to God), and all his merry band can go take a leap into the timestream sans TARDIS, for all I care. God, how I hate these people!!!!

Now, that I've got that out -- *Jim*, you went about it all wrong. Since you already had *some* water in your backyard (nutso sprinklers), and the problem was a sailboat in the mud -- *more* water would have done the trick, don't you think?? ;-) "It's dead, Jim." I couldn't resist, sorry. Do take care, though. I can tell you what lower back agony is like if you want to know. Not a pretty sight.

Sue - Yup, I'm familiar with HE's feelings about "fans" - which is one reason why I don't like to call myself a 'fan'. Also, if you get deep into the Con-scene, you will find that a lot of the Con-regulars are of that ilk.

As for Con programming, in my experience, most of the good stuff is scheduled for Saturday, somethimes Sunday morning, but rarely on that. Shoot for Saturday-all day and into the evening. That's enough out of me for now. The folds in my brain are starting to smooth out....!

James C. Hess (INSTALLMENT 1701: 1001 USES FOR COSMIC HICCUPS AND BRAIN FARTS) Mon May 13 14:28:19 1996
H-a-r-l-a-n E-l-l-i-s-o-n
H-a-r-l-a-n E-l-l-i-s-o-n
H-a-r-l-a-n E-l-l-i-s-o-n

Happy now?

*YOU* try lifting a muther heavy boat out of a mutty hole in the back yard brought on by the incompetence of the power company, which made the lawn sprinklers go nutso, and you see how you unintentionally spell

HARLAN ELLISON

From somewhere over the tarnished rainbow, mugging blue haired munchkins singing the Barney the Dinosaur song off-key...

Jim

Bill Dennis (The Executioner of Malformed Brain Children) Mon May 13 14:23:14 1996
Leigh Anne, I just received my copy of EDGEWORKS, too, and saw the reference to our illustrious Mr. Wyatt, whom HE describes as "a very nice guy [with] serious brain-stem damage." But, dang it, HE misspelled Webderland. Oh, the pain, the pain. Straighten this guy out, would ya, Rick?

Sue Luesse ((The Wilder Ones four-eyed Moll)(jaluesse@htonline.com)) Mon May 13 14:15:25 1996

Coupla quickies.

Jason - You have info on Chi-Comic-Con? Like a schedule of presentations, etc. that might help me out on which day to attend? e-mail me if my guilt trip has arrived and you feel obliged. No need to include the words to '99 bottles of beer on the wall' in Klingon - we'll go one the bikes, and miss that social activity..

WolfMistress - HE also Emphatically stated early on his loathing of 'fans' and their fawning. He goes to Conventions, nonetheless, and from what can be gathered appears to enjoy them now. Changing opinions is allowed. Encouraged even. The only thing can be counted on is change and death. I like to think HE invests in the former.

HOWDY Leigh! As a 'newcomer' myself, I like to keep a foot in the door to let others to sneak in.

And what about all you MIAs? At least send a dog tag with ID number on it so we can notify the next of kin.

Rick - Yaknow - this posting wrap-around eternal line of typing is deceptive. I keep thinking I've only written 5 or 6 lines on the Board, cause that's all I see when I'm ready to type the tag line. Maybe a running meter on line count would supress my velocity and volume.. But I do like having the space to express, without the guilt. Toss up. AND now that you are a SOMEBODY, albeit a got-a-life strong and silent type, I'll include you in the snail-mail request (same message and signature as in last request, please).

Gotta go. The dove came back with an olive branch (and it was covered in parasites) so I've got some gardening to do while the sun shines.

Try High - Fly Straight - Drive Safe

keegan Mon May 13 13:58:11 1996
I just (finally) finished "Essential Ellison". Am now waiting for my ordered "Edgeworks" to arrive. In the meantime, I think I'll read Memos from Purgatory. It'll be a good book to hang with while soaking up sun on the boat this weekend (there will be sun this weekend, right? Oh please, let there be sun!).

BTW, when is the Chicago Comic Con? Are dates in News or elsewhere around here? My little sis lives there so maybe I could plan a visit to coincide with HE's appearance.

WolfMistress (Soothed by The Voice in the Garden....) Mon May 13 12:06:13 1996
Apropos of nothing at all, I just did a quick look back at HE's message - and noticed a strange little ripple of 'synchronicity' as Jung would call it: The time of HE's posting is 17:01:44. The Registry number of the Enterprise is NCC-1701.....

No one but HE could make the Universe hiccup like that!

WolfMistress (Surprised to find The Voice in the Garden....) Mon May 13 10:35:28 1996
Well, well, well -- Wonder upon wonder! I return from a most enjoyable weekend, and what do I find - A greeting from The Great One!

Thank you, Harlan, for finding us to your liking -- and to Rick, for being a shining light for all of us. What kills me is that his message was right *after* mine! Which means he probably read my wacky comments in that particular thread about the CyberAngels! Aaaagggghhh! I couldn't have been writing something more intelligent at that point, could I????? Oh, well!

Sue - as a friendly clarification, Harlan has never eschewed technology. In the Science Fiction Weekly interview which can be found elsewhere on this Wonderful Web, and also in the transcription of the AOL interview, Harlan states that he doesn't *hate* technology, nor does he think its bad or anything else; he just doesn't like the uses to which technology is put, nor does he see any point in all the idiots/stupids, etc. infesting the Net with the kind of simplemindedness he has seen everywhere else. And if you've used this thing as much as I have, you gotta admit there's an *awful* lot of trash cluttering up cyberspace!

Harlan hates waste, as we well know, and that's mostly what his opinions on technology are about - the wholesale waste of something that could be put to better purpose. He doesn't own a computer because he has no use for one. He can't write on it (or doesn't want to try; either way, it's irrelevant), and if he saw some of the stuff out here on the Web, he would have another heart attack! We Know How He Is. And we love him for it. (Gawd-amighty, here I am, actually defending HE's non-technical world view -- me, the worst technophreak I know!). Anyway, that all there is about that.

Got a DR's appt. this afternoon, In Which The Medical Establishment Will Try to Explain How Sticking Sharp, Pointed Objects Into My Lower Spinal Area To Scrape Away Scar Tissue Will Lead To *Less* Pain In The Same Area! More Later.

Leigh Anne ((Showing one of the three faces of fear) lnichol@ksu.ksu.edu) Mon May 13 09:45:37 1996
Holy cow. Harlan Ellison sending e-mail. When does the plague of locusts start?

On Wednesday I received the best package in the mail, my copy of Edgeworks. And it's everything plus a new introduction called Good morning, I'm not Kathie Lee Gifford. (Glad HE finally cleared that up). And our dear friend Rick has achieved his own bit of immortality by being prominently mentioned at the end of the intro. Congratulations, Rick. Not many people can claim a positive mention in a HE intro.

I ordered the book through Amazon Books, a link which Rick has kindly added to the link list. This is my second shipment from them and they are highly recommended. (And no, I don't work for them) They have an extensive list of HE work and can notify you when a new title is made available. No, it's not as much fun as walking through a bookstore, but the stress is lower. Check them out.

Sue Luesse (jaluesse@htonline.com) Sun May 12 21:24:29 1996

I know, no clever e-mail reference. But it did pass through my mind (like a brain fart) that should HE become a technologically enhanced presence, and make use of such things as e-mail, and should he happen to incur a temporary insanity and wish to e-mail me personally, and if the last legit e-mail address was a fifteen minute scroll down memory lane... I don't care how unlikely it is. I said I believe in possibilities, and doing my bit to make them real. Besides, my illusions keep my warm at night..

So Harlan is Himself, and I am really me (but getting better at 'putering), and there is a possibility HE will cruise the Net looking for intelligent life, and thereby find fodder for another half centurys worth of writing for me to enjoy - I am selfishly delighted. And if you are reading, Mr. Ellsion, I'd rather get a snail-mail with a Real Live Autogra..I mean Signature.. You can make it out To Sue (an name you can love, and use in a court of law) - My Inspiration - Love, Harley Davidson. Gets a higher resale price than Harlan Ellison on the open market..

No disrespect. It wouldn't bother me if Harlan Ellsion dealers were as available as Harley-Davidson dealerships. Wouldn't even mind the waiting list, or the 'value added' to the purchase price. I special order at premium prices to get HE books now.

Jason - read Lonelyache. In the car scene, the kids are sitting on something unnamed - possibly the 'fuzzy bear' held down by the weight of family? And him scrunched up in the back, where people used to toss packages to make space for people?? Looking at the howling mob outside the family vehicle... Just random thoughts that may go somewhere, or may circle a statue of a cute kid peeing endlessly..

Jim - Don't sweat missing God. I have it on the absolute Authority of a blue-haired old lady with a set of beads for both hands that God is on tour as the opening act for a variety of Motivational Speakers. Check the TicketMaster nearest you..

It finally occured to me that if my son being home for the summer from school equates to double this computer - that some of our numbers may be out of business on the Board until school (and access) are resumed. What a pain! Lots of MIA's..

My hubby and I are tentatively planning a week-end cruise to the Chicago Comic-Con. We only want to spend one day. Suggestions from the Pro's as to which day is the best? On darn near anything to do with Cons?

Had a nice Mommy Day. A house full. My own four used-to-be-deductions, plus all the ones they brought home and begged to let stay. It rained, so I didn't even feel cheated of a relaxing ride. Copacetic.

Try High - Fly Straight - Drive Safe

Sun May 12 17:22:07 1996
tsk tsk tsk, Jim, his name is Harlan Ell(IS)on. Get it right (Just teasing)

James C. Hess Sun May 12 15:01:50 1996
Oh, nice. I'm out giving myself a hernia and lower back problems trying to shift a 28 foot sailboat out of a muddy rut in my backyard and the Great One Himself HARLAN ELLSION pops out on this site? Damn, damn, damn.

Okay, fine. Run me over with a eighteen wheeler when God Almighty pops in, would you?

Seriously: Mr. Ellison I am glad to hear you are back and about. Continued best wishes in your recovering and get back to the typewriter soon!

Jim

Jason Sun May 12 11:49:20 1996
I agree very cool. So now that HE has seen your page Rick what does he think of it?
Anyway my newspaper tv guide did an article on Bab5 where HE is mentioned and quoted more often than JMS. Just thought I'd send the quote here.
HE on why you shouldn't be scared of Babylon 5.
"I can go on TV and say God is dead or Mailyn Monroe picked her nose, but the one thing you can't say on TV is that some people are better than others, that some people are smarter than others. There are a whole generation of jerks watching television raised on Gap and fast food. They're idiots kiddo. Television caters to the lowest common denominator. This show is just a slap in the face for them. Wake up! It ain't that complex." Hopefully this publicity will start to get people buying his books eh?
Your Humble Servant Jason

keegan Sat May 11 21:31:44 1996
Wow! Cool.

Rick Wyatt (Xenovenison) (webmaster@harlanellison.com) Sat May 11 19:23:41 1996
Okay, here's the answer to the Mystery of the Message:

Friday afternoon I get home and get an e-mail from the doctor who originally operated on Harlan. The message appeared to come from Harlan and I doubted seriously someone would spoof the doctor's name (especially when the domain name checked out), so I figured about an 80% probability it was HE (you can fake an e-mail address with browsers like Lynx, as the very nice woman who received from very ugly e-mail from someone purporting to be me found out).

Since the letter appeared to be addressed to Webderland visitors at large (I'm pretty sure HE isn't expecting to see me at the Comic-Con or the HWA banquet), I cut-and-pasted the thing to this comments board. I e-mail Ellison's doctor back to verify the address was legit. Lo and behold, today I get an e-mail from said doctor who said yes, it was Ellison, and that he took Harlan on a little tour of his web sites and even showed him the on-line get well board. My assumption is Harlan clicked on one of the ubiquitous "e-mail webmaster@harlanellison.com" buttons.

So yes, we did get a REAL LIVE e-mail from Harlan (which must be an even of some kind), and yes, he is doing fine (his doctor confirms this). Wonders never cease (and neither does this mammoth comment, apparently, until now...)

Sue Luesse (Harlan Ellison Is Watching (everyone else is too)) Sat May 11 12:22:51 1996

WolfMistress - Did not mean to make anyone paranoid, since the whole thing is a sick joke as far as I'm concerned. I mean, c'mon - Cybercrime? Hate e-mail? Stalking women on the web? Get rid of "lurking"? Get real!

How would anyone know who to send Hate e-mail to, who to stalk? The usual parameters of bigotry are nonexistant in Cyberspace. People ignore flamers, and delete unanswered e-mail they don't want. There's no percentage in bigotry here, no satisfaction of being empowered by a response. If there is a danger, it is that the people who don't know enough about the Net to know how silly their fears are, are now going to "pressurize" sysops,webmasters,and others who DO know, into self-censoriship - and worse, become a lobby that claims expertise in the equally ignorant world of policticians, in support of governmental regulation on the Net. I don't care how many links they have to good causes (anyone can link), when they tell me my right to free expression should hinge on the governments ability to track me down, I start to worry.

Our mystery message is a good example. So, if it is Harlan Himself, should I download and frame? Save to disc and forever preserve? Feel special? And if it isn't, should I turn it in to the tender mercies of the 'proper authorities' (unnamed, and anonymous as the author of the post, but with the power to wreak havoc to investigate a practical joke), and support the right of Proper Authority to invade Cyberspace with their peculiar brand of responsibility?

I read. Hmmm. Thought Ellison eschewed technology. Maybe I'm no longer the newest 'baby' on the Board. Maybe I never was, just changed my 'handle' to mess with minds, and get out from under my last self-proclaimed and generated 'me' that is now outgrown and bores. It's a here and now kind of thing. It happens. Make of it what you will.

I did read Wedgies. I laughed all the way through. Every character in it is a patchwork of roles, images, stereotypes. They each change 'self' opportunisticly to take advantage of their changing situations, constantly re-writing the 'meaning' of life to justify what they do. No one is ever to blame for the consequences of their choices and behaviour, it is always something else to blame for 'mucking up'. Nary a 'real' person in the story - yet we all know someone just like each of them.. The cut and pain and sadness of the tale is in the multiple layering of illusions taking on substance as a believable person. Valerie Lone (and all the characters) sold out every step of the way, denying it every step of the way, and to the last was still posing - for no one.

Jason - me - Keegan - ditto. When I do, I'll get back to you on it.

Got to go rest up for Mommy Day. I hate holidays that screw with my personal schedules of fun and naps, by insisting I give up a weekend day to Oblige. One of the good ideas enacted by the government was moving holidays to Monday where they counted as an extra vacation day..

Try high - Fly straight - Drive safe

keegan (@Mom.com) Sat May 11 10:47:52 1996
Jason- I feel like I need to re-read "Lonelyache" to make specific comment about what its images "mean". I hope you will forgive me if I do not run right out and do that immediately. Even though I don't necessarily understand the details, that story tears me apart in many ways. A child doesn't need to understand the adult vocabulary to understand that the parents are having an argument. I don't have to understand every analytical nuance of the writing to be profoundly affected by its message.

Sue (I think, or maybe WM) said somewhere here that the world is so much nicer for the nearsighted because the world just looks so much better without all those nasty details. I feel that if I read "Lonelyache" right now it would be like getting up with a hangover and putting my (RGP)contacts in my eyes: I could see very well, but it wouldn't be worth the pain. And if anyone out there is worried that I'm depressed, don't. I'm not, and I'd like to keep it that way (just a little longer, please?). Perhaps I'll get back to "Lonelyache" when the sun shines again.

Took son #1 to breakfast this morning. We read the funnies and ate pancakes at a diner counter. I live for that.

Jason (A Boy and his E-mail Address) Fri May 10 21:45:40 1996
Unusual thought that pops up when I least expect it #412: The Serpent in the Garden of Eden's name was Prometheus
Wow HE himself!? Little skeptical, but we'll see if it's true or not.
For discussion how about Lonelyache? The signifigance of the dream? Why HE says the key to the story is the dream car and the protagonist crunching up in that space under the back window? I'm at a loss, so any and all insight is welcome. WM you and Jim are welcome to follow up when you come back.
Speaking of the MIA, How is it going with you Anakin? Is this the result of seting up of your chat line
Your Humble Servant Jason

keegan Fri May 10 18:17:50 1996
uh, "Harlan", prove it. or is this a test? this looks like a job for.....oh, nevermind.

Harlan himself checking in. (cvmg.com Cardiovascular Research Institute of Southern California) Fri May 10 17:01:44 1996
(note: this message was received today from the above doctor's office)

I'm at one of my doctors' offices. It's Friday the 10th. I'm told I'm healing well.
Pain at a minimum. Back at work already. Did an essay on Barclay Shaw for science fiction age, and a couple of other small `pieces. Don't cry for me, Argentine; I'm coming along. See you in Chicago at the Comic-Con, and in New York at the HWA banquet.

WolfMistress (Paranoid Wackoville!) Fri May 10 16:42:14 1996
Keegan -- OK, maybe it's just me and my prickly reaction to things that look like censorship and such. I guess I've studied too much sociology and Human history, etc. I'm always on the look-out for barbarians at the gates disguised as a travelling road show or something. I sensitive to anything that might harm the potential of this CyberVillage to be the force for Communication is can be among people. If I have any crusade at all -- that's it. I grew up in a household where *all* relationships were founded on open communications. My Mom, Dad, and I talked about things; things were dicussed, ideas were floated for opinions, an open-mind was actively cultivated. Which is why I believe in everything and nothing. I believe in the things I have experienced first-hand, because no one has the right to try to make me crazy just because some of those things may be categorized as "paranormal" or "supernatural" or anything else. And nothing is an absolute in everything!

But the openness of the Internet must be the foundation for dialogue, for exchange, for the mingling of points of view. We have the power to shape our own future. We should use it wisely.

I'm going north to visit my son for the weekend. Be back Monday. Happy Mommy's Day to the mommies out there - our children are our gifts to the Universe. Here's hoping we have taught (are teaching) them to step gently and with wonder at all they survey.....

keegan Fri May 10 15:56:21 1996
I don't really think the Cyber Angels are out for censorship. They included a link to the Blue Ribbon Campaign on their Links page. Looks like they just want to help people avoid the pitfalls of Internet anonymity (forged email, harrasment, mail bombs etc.). Doesn't look terribly threatening (or overly powerful for that matter) to me. Then again, what do I know?

WolfMistress (Looking up The Night of Delicate Terrors.....) Fri May 10 15:46:00 1996
Hey, guys, listen up! I don't know, maybe I'm just paranoid or something, but there are some very strange things going on in our little CyberVillage, here. As Sue mentioned, I think you should all check out the CyberAngels HomePage:

http://www.proaxis.com/~safetyed/CYBERANGELS/cyberangels04.html

or use any of the search engines (Yahoo, Lycos, or my favorite, AltaVista). Check this thing out and let me know if I'm crazy or this is some kind of internal censorship being rolled out in the name of so-called "Safety". I does appear humorous on the face of it, but so have a lot of things history has shown us were otherwise.

I am certainly not one to panic or over-react; in fact, people have told me I sometimes appear totally disconnected from so-called normal Humanity because I don't easily show emotion of any kind. Sorry, family trait. Emotion makes you vulnerable. Vulnerability is a weakness. Weakness leads to failure. And failure is not an option.

Anyway, check it out. Maybe I'd just dribbling into my oatmeal and there's nothing to it at all.......

WolfMistress (Having created my own Night(s) of Delicate Terrors....) Fri May 10 15:07:45 1996
Hello! - Jason - Apologies (if necessary) and Thank you (definitely necessary). Your response made a great deal of sense to me. *Keegan's* response did as well. My problem with "Miss Ankle-Strap" is that I'm never sure just *what* she's doing! At first, I totally sympathized with her. Then I felt sorry for her because Handy's boss had to try and pay back what he felt was a legitimate debt, and she got caught in the middle, more or less. Then, another reading had me thinking that Valerie may have been a little afraid at first, but then decided to milk the opportunity for all it was worth just as she had done when a young *star*. This means, of course, that she knew she couldn't act (not on screen, at least), but her greatest act (known or not) was what she was living.

And the end of the story always throws me for a loop. So she's having a burger and gravy-covered fries. What does this have to do with anything? Is it a scene of smug satisfaction that she got enough money out of this little strangeness to eat at diners like the one she used to work in??? As we know, HE's stuff does this to one's mind! So I suppose everyone's opinions of Valerie are correct in one way or another. God, the mental exercise you get just reading an HE story!! Unlike Stephen King & Dean Koontz, who weave a good yarn and tell you everything you need to know about the story, HE lets our own minds fill in the blanks. Horrid little man!!! ;-)

Also, Jim - you will be missed. Please hurry back. Your wit often puts me in mind of an older song of Billy Joel's - Stilleto. The part about "she cuts you once, she cuts you twice, you watch yourself bleed, knowing it's what you need..." And about those peanuts.....! Take care.

Sue - More coming in various sundry vehicles....

Sue Luesse (The Dept. of "What was the Question?" Dept.) Fri May 10 14:59:25 1996

Well, I think I have gotten the e-mail mess straightened out. No one seems to know if any 'in-coming' got sent back, so if you got one back try again. The good news is that I got a Netscape 2.0 upgrade for free (to make me shut up). Is that good? How would I know?

I'll start masticating on Wedgies tonight. Reading Essential Ellison is kind of 'trippy' for me. I don't really recall many of the titles, so I think I probably haven't read them, and get a page into it to discover an old friend, and hit myself in the head for not recognizing it in the first place - but read to the end anyway. I am not very good remembering last names either.

Guess I really did have a more complete collection than I thought. Noticable in its absence is Harlan Ellison is Watching You (are there 2?), and a bookbuddy is hooking me up (with two copies, hence the query). That should make Jim happy (also noticable in absence). Perhaps the co-incidence of overlapping absences will work for the best. By the time Jim takes me to task, I'll have read it.

And now I have a question. In Soft Monkey, what is the deal with 'soft monkey'? Was I supposed to get something out of the Social Agency Lady repeating that phrase? Address responses to (Annie@loaded.dumpster). We need to know. Or do we? The story seemed cohesive without it.

In the grand scale of things (which is way over my head, so I see up skirts and pantlegs, and wonder what the Big Deal is all about), I like the part where people rant, and issues are raised, and one question leads to the next, and we all end up knowing a lot more about a lot of other little slices of life under the microscope (lit from below, projecting personal Batman-like symbols to the sky). I pretty much like anything that kickstarts my head. Why I read HE donchaknow.. Lets not dull the edge.

Anyone seen the CyberAngels Homepage? Volunteers volunteer to 'police' the Web and "pressurize" authorities (sysops,webmasters, police, etc) to take action, and keep cyberspace as clean as the streets patrolled by the Guardian Angels (who are behind this). :)- Don't worry, they won't "confront us", they'll just turn us in to the pros anonymously... Anyone else dropping their drawers and mooning in direction of Cecil Dweeb in his red beret and spiffy T-shirt? Do CyberAngels travel in packs of 8 like Guardian Angels? Aaaarghhh! Bad Dogs!! Go Home!!

Think I'll ride on the bike in the rain to visitize some people I know, and cleverly eat their food like an invisible guest, while I take notes for Tipper Gore which I will turn over to the medium channeling J. Edgar Hoover, and let the proper authorities deal without risking the danger of confrontation.. And worms scratch their asses when they're confused... Wonder if Curtis Sliwa has an e-mail address? Wonder how he'll track down whodunit?

Enough!! I'm off to apply for my CyberSpace Blue Tattoo Identification Number. Should fit on my long arm.

Try High - Fly Straight - Drive Safe

Jason (In Onyx playing chess with Mephisto) Thu May 9 21:50:03 1996
WM There are five regular issues and a special. As how to get them try calling up comic stores, it's about as easy to get a hold of them as it is to get a hold of his books. The special is supposed reprinted for July, to coincide with the new quarterly format. (I posted about that a while ago just run the page down a bit.) Best bet to find the regular issues, just call up every store in the book.
Jason

Jason (In Onyx chatting with Mephisto) Thu May 9 21:40:04 1996
Wolfmistress I hadn't read 'Ankle Strap' in a long time, and I didn't feel comfortable responding, to the question. By the time I had a chance to go over the parts I needed to read to refresh myself, the board had moved on. What I think, about Valerie Lone, is you can't go home again, even if it wasn't really home in the first place. Valerie Lone is like a silent picture star with a bad voice, trying to make it in the talkies. She's a piece that doesn't fit anymore. She knew it too. HE throws you off track just a bit. When Valerie does the interview, she seems able to handle it. But it all falls apart. I don't think she was victimized by her comeback, as much as she was by her first time through. That's the tragedy of the story, she was never really an actress, and she learned that during her absence, but at least she could pretend, not anymore. There's a lot of commas in that last sentence, and I'm not sure if really makes sense. I hope it does.
This answer your question Wolfmistress?
Jason

keegan Thu May 9 20:32:25 1996
Valarie Lone scared me. I took her to be one of the weaker (maybe not a good choice of words?) souls who couldn't handle the rough game of Hollywood after her natural "assets" began to fade with age. Once you're dried up, you're ignored. I think she was an example of how "the business" can eat the soul of a young woman. For a while, she was "famous"--lauded, pampered, "respected" but she didn't really posess the talent necessary for the long haul. She "escaped" to the diner in the desert only to be coaxed back and chewed all over again. That ain't a deep take on it by any means but OHH how it scares me.

James C. Hess (James.Hess@colorado.edu) Thu May 9 18:24:26 1996
INSTALLMENT 2978: IN WHICH WE BATH A FULL-GROWN ELEPHANT WITH AN ELECTRIC TOOTHBRUSH AND FIND WHY PEANUTS ARE GOOD FOR YOU

Okay, here goes: I know this will come as a pleasant announcment to some and a bugger to others: As of 6 P.M. MDT 12 May 1996 my current e-mail address will be no more.

But not to fear friends, fans, foes (say that five times fast with a mouthful of peanut butter and crackers): I *will* return around the first of June at a new (and hopefully, much improved) e-mail address.

Now this means that if you just can't wait for me to come flapping back in here, you can do one of two things (do both, see I care): send me your e-mail address or snail mail address before the prescribed hour and I will wing you a nasty gram tailored to your needs between now and my return which contains the every popular growl, "Get Bent, You".

Okay? O....tay.

Jim

P.S. Play nice, all. And answer *all* questions posed to you. Please? Huh, huh? Please?

Wolf-Mommy ((Don't ask)) Thu May 9 16:29:11 1996
Rick - Lincoln Stein is doing some new and improved things with Perl 5. There is a boatload of stuff to download if you need it CGIs, etc. It is easily accessed through AltaVista as follows:

http://www.altavista.digital.com/

In Simple Query mode, type: Lincoln Stein. The first listing is the one you want. The stuff is new as of April 19th. And if you already knew this -- well, just trying to help. I've just started working with Perl modules myself. Gotta try an keep up with you young'uns, ya know!

Sue Luesse (out to lunch with Eidolons) Thu May 9 16:11:39 1996

Seem to be having 'static' on my outging e-mail. Have called service politely, and angrily, and still waiting for reliable transmissions. If you e-mailed me, Nimbus upon you, I have received. Not ignoring anyone, just can't get the dang thing to spit out what I want it to. Patience. You KNOW I respond to darn near anything.

WolfMistress - I haven't read Wedgies yet (though it's sounding tastier), and CAN'T mull it over with you yet. I will get to it soon.

Try High - Fly Straight - Drive Safe

WolfMistress ((Yeah, yeah, I know....)) Thu May 9 15:43:46 1996
Any word on the availability of Slippage???? Also, how many Dream Corridor issues are out as of this date, and how can they be obtained? (See? I *can* be civilized when I try real hard...) Thanx.

WolfMistress (Collecting the Bleeding Stones....) Thu May 9 15:27:42 1996
Hello, All -- I don't know what's wrong with me other than the usual at my age. There's just enough of the headache left to grate on the nerves. It's still grey and raining, and I feel like a great line from Stephen King's "Dolores Claiborne" (both book & movie) -- "Sometimes being a bitch is all a woman has left." And yes, I've been an SK fan almost as long as I've been an HE fan. Dean Koontz, Robin Cook, - all those who write on the wild side. Preferably, the wilder the better.

I've tossed all kinds of little questions out ever since I joined this Quest for the Wholly Grilled(!) and they've been ignored. I just got tired of it. The first of the week I posed a question to *Jason* for discussion re a story he'd mentioned and everyone blew right by it and focused on Jim's discussion topic instead. I'm not saying my topic is better or such asinine rot as that; I'm just asking for a little acknowledgement, I suppose. I've written whole page-fulls of stuff & the comments to follow don't breathe a whisper that anyone even read it! Yeah, I know it's childish whining. So what? This is a free Board, thanks the inimitable Mr. Wyatt (how he puts up with us, I'll never know)!

Anyway - Jason: I asked for your opinion, take, thoughts on Valerie Lone in "The Resurgence of Miss Ankle-Strap Wedgie". I don't understand what she is supposed to represent (other than the misused & abused in Hollywierd). And every time I read the story, I get a different impression of her. So what does someone else think??? Also, I will forgive your spurious comments mentioning The King (Elvis) in same sentence with David Hasselhoff the other day. Sacrilege! Don't even *dream* of a comparison! ;-)(smile, dammit!) Also, on the subject of buzzwords: the one that totally makes me see puke-green is "empowerment"! I know it started with the so-called 'New Agers' (I think) and made it's way into the Boardrooms of corporate America. But what the hell is it supposed to *mean*?!

And just as a total mindf*%@, I have always thought there was some hidden whatever behind HE's fascination with pain, ie Paingod, etc., and Painesville,where he grew up.....

keegan (avoiding the lonelyache in my little life hutch (where else?)) Thu May 9 14:02:43 1996
Bill- I do hope you found the link to WhiteWolf "Edgeworks" stuff on the homepage.

Rick-yeah, man, let's have a Bulletin smorgasBoard! Do what ya want (though for me personally, this one is fine). Thanks for aforementioned "Edgeworks" update. And also for keeping us posted about Harlan's health. I said it before; I'll say it again: You're a Good Man, Wyatt. A true mensch.... WolfMistress, I know you wouldn't want me to apologize for stuff I didn't do, but why do I get the feeling that I might have done something? Did I respond to something you intended for someone else? Or am I just typing too much? Enlighten me, as Sue might put it (BTW:are you feeling any better? Weather's draggin' me down, too). Everybody was so TOUCHY for a while. Oh well. It's a definite sign of life.

Sue Luesse (jaluesse@htonline) Thu May 9 09:50:22 1996

Jim - 42, because that is the age when bright people who mature and matriculate early (and are most likely to know the meaning of Life the Universe and Everything) go to their 25 year High School Re-union, and truly understand. At least, I thought I did.. I seem to remember something about that.. Geez, I've gotten so OLD since that re-union.. Memory is the first..or was that the chicken??

As to Terminator, and Soldier.. I didn't know they were related. Different mothers? I agree with Jason. Both work in their chosen ways. I prefer Soldier. Jason - I haven't read Toys for Juliette. Have read Prowler. Which part didn't I get? It's so hard to notice absence.. As soon as I find Toys and read it, I'll be happy to tell you if something changed in Prowler for me.

WolfMistress - Could you please restate the question?

Rick - I don't know what you are talking about, but could I borrow that rubber thingie to bite on??.. OH! And do you have any in flavors?

I don't know squat about all that puterese - but I first paused on this Board BECAUSE there were things to actually read, rather than scan, and real language was used. Best of all, I could follow the trail without losing it, because I didn't have to shunt back and forth between topic and response screens, or wait until Godot was done loading the Board. Keegan is right. The current presentation facilitates a certain style of viewing, that is well suited to more meaty exchange. If you can make it do that better, go for it. If not, leave it alone. You've already created a Primo think site, second only to the bathroom in mainstream America.

To Beth, Jeff, Anakin, jt, Amy, and all who post here - thanks. I enjoy every new perspective. Keep it coming.

BTW - nobody REALLY thinks HE is a god, do they?

Try high - Fly straight - Drive safe

Bill Dennis (The Executioner of Malformed Ideas) Thu May 9 09:39:15 1996
Does anyone know the status of EDGEWORKS Volume 1? It was scheduled for May 1st release, but neither our local bookstore nor Amazon Books has received it yet. A publishing delay, perchance?

By the way, I picked up DANGEROUS VISIONS and AGAIN, DANGEROUS VISIONS at the library this week and found them catalogued, gasp!, in the Young Adult section. Now far be it from me to question the wisdom of the great Dewey Decimaltizers, but Young Adult!!? The library computer also claimed to have THE ESSENTIAL ELLISON on shelf, but when I was unable to find said volume, I asked the librarian for help. She informed me that HE is a "cult" author, and therefore many of his books get stolen. So, all my fellow culties out there, if one of you has pilfered this weighty tome from the Salt Lake City library, cough it up, would ya. Not only do I imagine it to be a great read, but its sheer bulk will come in handy for rapping Mormon missionaries over the head when they knock at my door. Just kidding--though I would offer to trade it with them for a copy of The Book of Mormon--and I'll leave it to y'all to decide who would walk away with the better bargain from such exchange.

WolfMistress (With sympathy for Bleeding Stones....) Thu May 9 08:49:22 1996
....from The Deathbird Stories. As to other things, my only comment is, "so much for common courtesy." Period. End of discussion on that topic.

Jason - It just so happens I re-read "Prowler.." and "The Sky is Burning" last night. I personally think "Prowler" can stand very well all by itself. Even if I had never read "A Toy.." I would find "Prowler" to be a gut-wrenching take on this society of the future. One's curiosity is aroused by the questions HE puts into 'Jack's' mind: What kind of creature was Juliette? And *why* was the knife under her pillow? But then, these questions are reasonably answered by what happens throughout the story. We see what kind of place this is, and what constitutes 'entertainment' to these depraved creatures. "Prowler" is more than satisfactory all on its own, in my opinion.

Jason (Walking the High Steel) Wed May 8 22:53:28 1996
That's sort of what I was after Keegan, I was wonderig though if someone needs to have read A Toy for Juliette, in order to completley understand Prowler. I'm just wondering if anyone has read them out of sequence, and felt that part of the story was missing. that's all.

Rick (webmaster@harlanellison.com) Wed May 8 22:03:16 1996
Believe me, I *wish* I had time to be Mr. Chatty on this bulletin board, and I'm sorry if that is disappointing. Please don't think that means I don't read every comment, or that I am in any way disenchanted with the conversation.

I will look around this weekend and try to find a good "forward-moving" comments board. Barring that, I will modify my program and give you guys a new comments board or two. This board will remain as-is, and will post messages in reverse order, simply because it gets very large and I don't think it is fair for someone to have to wait for 200k of html to load before they can read the latest comments. If anyone has any brilliant ideas or has perl or c code I can compile/modify/use/spindle/mutilate, I'm all ears.

keegan (surfer in the city at the edge of a lake) Wed May 8 21:30:04 1996
Jason-
I read "Prowler" for the first time in DV, right after "A Toy for Juliette". Two or so years later I read "Prowler" in Essential Ellison and though "Toy" had faded somewhat in memory (I have since re-read that fine story, too), "Prowler" still worked fine. I think it can stand on its own, if that's what you're asking. Does that count?

Jason Wed May 8 20:38:12 1996
Answer to the last question James posed

Terminator is a good film, I enjoyed it. I have not seen Soldier, I have read the story so my answer is based on that. Soldier is a story that tries to make you think. It shows that soldiers deal with things that most people can't. Soldier is about the horrors of war. It is about the alienation of soldiers from 'civilized society.' It is about saying war is a bad thing.
Terminator suggests it, but it is not the point of the film. The film is about (assuming it is about something more than an action flick.) The difference one person can make. Which is better? Soldier, for its message. But Terminator is not crap either, and for reasons beyond the fact that it was based on Soldier.

Why 42? I see two poossibilities, one DA believes that the answer to the ultimate question of Life the Universe and Everything, can not be expressed in our limited language. Or DA chose 42 because it was an answer that would make people go 'what the hell does that mean?' or laugh, or actually think about Life, the Universe and Eveything.

Here's my topic for discussion. To restate; does the Prowler in the City at the Edge of the World, work if you haven't read A Toy for Juliette by Bob Bloch?

James C. Hess (James.Hess@Colorado.edu) Wed May 8 17:40:48 1996
INSTALLMENT 2,578: IN WHICH WE ATTEMPT TO UNDERSTAND WHY DOUGLAS ADAMS BELIEVES THE ANSWER TO BE '42'.

As a nervous, wide-eyed Professor of mine once said after I wrote an 11,000 word paper on SHAKESPEARE'S HAMLET and STAR TREK VI: THE UNDISCOVERED COUNTRY, in which I compared the two in Ellisonesque fashion: NO MORE TANGENTS! The question today, ladies and gentlemen, is, since THE TERMINATOR was based on HE's work, which is better: His story or the movie? So as to avoid being impailed on a set of tv rabbit ears, allow me to say that each has its own definitive qualities.

Ready? Begin. You have most of your life to answer this question. Grading will be on a chronological curve.

Jim

keegan Wed May 8 17:37:52 1996
Ooops! I mistook this for IRC. I'll step back in a moment. Yes, these are intermittent monologues 'cause that's what a BBoard of this sort seems to best support. It can take some unravelling to catch a clean view of the thread. So, webmeister, shall we experiment with a different format or is that unlikely to help?

WolfMistress (Friendless & Alone On a Fantastic Voyage....) Wed May 8 16:47:32 1996
Sue, what are you talking about? I don't know; maybe it's the headache or maybe just me, but I swear you lost me a ways back. It seems like we're having a lot of 'intermittent monologue' instead of dialogue, here.

Anyway, no one has ever paid attention to any of the questions I've asked since I stumbled into this quicksand, so what the hell. I'm just confused. All this shimmering rhetoric to what purpose? To paraphrase Jason: It's making my ears bleed....

keegan (nodding at Sue) Wed May 8 15:56:18 1996
Whilst reflecting on the BBoard conversation the other day, Pogo and that great wise statement entered my mind. Ain't it the truth?

Sue Luesse (Driving in the Spikes) Wed May 8 15:45:36 1996

Censorship. Lowest Common Denominator. Bottom Line. Education. Entertainment. Let's be open-minded, let the ripples of the Glass Teat Shattering like a Goblin reach out and light up what they ripple past..

In every "new order" the intellectuals are sacrificed first. In every time and place where "free thinking" has reared it's head, there has been a Night in Shining Horror to cut it off. A very deep Love/Hate thing we humans have. Everywhere, everyone is 'above average' (??!!) - treasuring and praising the intellectual and the creative - claiming it, owning it - and killing everything that stands in the way - like the ones who think, and create, and in so doing prove owning is not being...

To quote Pogo, "We have found the enemy - and he is us".

And to paraphrase Harlan Ellsion - I'd like to be happy and peaceful, but you won't let me be. Stop doing those stupid, destructive things to make you feel powerful and good about yourselves, and I won't have anything to kvetch about.

Essential Ellison. Get YOUR bug out of MY ass, and I'll sit quietly.

THIS *IS* what it is all about. THIS is where HE will find company, where the next great modern prophet will suckle and grow.

I sleep better knowing that.

Try high - Fly straight - Drive safe

keegan (one classroom furnished in early poppycock) Wed May 8 15:26:12 1996
Another observation about public education: Blandness is often rewarded while creativity is often asked to kindly follow the parameters of the assignment. One cool thing about teaching music is that I can almost daily commend a student for doing something just a little bit different while s/he is following my direction. A curriculum based on mimeographs doesn't necessarily hold the same kind of flexibility.

James C. Hess (James.Hess@Colorado.edu) Wed May 8 15:13:19 1996
INSTALLMENT 9, 676: IN WHICH WE TRY TO EXPLAIN WHY MEN ACCUMULATE LINT IN THEIR BELLY BUTTONS AND WHY WOMEN DON'T; IN WHICH WE LEARN THE TRUE MEASURE OF A MAN'S THUMB (AND OTHER THINGS A WOMAN SHOULD KNOW); IN WHICH WE LEARN WHY IT IS MEN WON'T ASK FOR DIRECTIONS; IN WHICH WE TRY AND PLUMB THE DEPTHS (AND WIDTHS) OF WHAT "WE CONTROL THE HORIZONTAL, WE CONTROL THE VERTICAL. BUT MOST IMPORTANTLY, WE CONTROL THE REMOTE CONTROL" MEANS

And now (he said, blatanly flaunting himself in a capitalistic prostitute manner) I will say this: For those who want to know more about moi and my writings (whatever that may be worth to do with what you will) drop me an e-mail line and I will, by way of snail mail, send you a free copy of a Cliff Notes sort of thing about my writings and where you can find them. After that, after you receive and read this ditty, you can do whatever you want in regards to yours truly.

Fair enough?

Jim

WolfMistress Wed May 8 15:01:06 1996
Now, I'm really gonna start something! Jim - do you write under your own name or a nome de plume? And if so, like Sue, I want to know where to find these writings. Your words have the same edge that HE's have -- and I have always admired finely-honed edged weapons....

keegan Wed May 8 14:55:52 1996
Beth- I was one of the lucky ones. While I also got the same kind of junk you complained about, there were a few individual teachers who DID teach me to think--my music teachers (some of 'em) my debate coach (who first told me about HE and encouraged me to listen to lyrics as poetry rather than "just" the words), and a very special principal who every few years went back into the classroom to be close to kids and live the life of a teacher. These educators defended my high ambitions to my parents (who thought I was simply uppity and bitchy) and encouraged me to break free of the insular life of rural Maine. I feel they literally lifted me up. I have already acheived so much more in my life than anyone dreamed I would (except me. I'm still reaching). I feel that I should put something back in their honor. THAT's why I can deal with public ed. Perhaps I can help a student like I was helped. Oh, and the benefits are REAL nice, too.

WolfMistress (Comments, like Dreams With Sharp Teeth....) Wed May 8 14:49:29 1996
Well, Gee-whiz!!! What's made everyone so testy?? Or at least, you appear to be testy! I joined this electronic free-for-all because I have greatly admired Harlan Ellison as a writer and as a Human Being for a very long time. I agree with nearly everything that has been said in the last day or so via this avenue re HE and *why* we admire him.

I was sorta playing Devil's Advocate with my comments in my previous posting. I fully agree with HE's (and Jim's) stand on the subject; I was looking for a discussion of what caused the logic of "the field collapsing in on itself" to be a fallacy as witnessed by others who may know first-hand. Harlan Ellison is not *a* god, *the* God (if any), or anything else other than a Man With A Mission. He is a man who has not only seen life's soft underbelly, but has dared to stab it repeatedly with the razor-edge of words forged in the heat of his lifelong battle with The Powers That Be. He won't back off and he won't back down: a refreshing outlook in this current climate where no one is directly responsible for anything! Everyone has excuses: abuse, so-called bi-polar syndrome, bad teachers, bad parents, bad food, whatever. Just how ridiculous is it going to get??

Then we have HE, who with extremely dry wit (a la the comedian Jason mentioned), or with acid-tongued vehemence, demands that we all stand up and by God, *do something*, *say something*, refuse to stand still for the "okeydoke". The kind of guts, self-assuredness and energy it takes to do what he does day in, day out should have driven him over the edge long ago. My point here is that the man is Human, with all that entails, both good and bad. He is not flawless; he is not perfect. His opinions about something can be just as lopsided as yours or mine may be for purely personal reasons. I am not saying this as an attack or any other such bullpucky nonsense. I am simply saying it as a reminder.

And yeah, modern education is a joke. I learned more in grade school 35 years ago than kids are learning in high school now. I was fortunate to have parents who actively encouraged reading to the point where I am now an avowed "bibliophreak" (as opposed to the simple "bibliophile'). I still own nearly every book I've bought since high school. The point is, if we are reasonably intelligent and aware of our surroundings (even more so if we have children who went through or are in the system), we *know* the current state of education in this country. The thing is -- what can we do about it?? *Can* anything be done about it? HE's mission is to make us think; once having done so, then we must act. So what can each of us do in our own communities, workplace, whatever - to do something about the problem? Are we volunteering to be tutors? Are we actively agitating for better curricula in our schools? Well?

Anyway, this is day 3 of a migraine that started Monday afternoon, it's grey and rainy here (will be through the weekend they say), and everyone's being so super-serious! Lighten up, will ya?? I heard what I think is a pretty good line in an otherwise asinine cable-tv movie: "Laughter is the shock-absorber of life." Makes sense to me. See ya.

James C. Hess (James.Hess@Colorado.edu) Wed May 8 14:44:00 1996
INSTALLMENT 10,569: TRAVELLING THE OCEANS OF TIME IN A JET-PROPELLED BIRDBATH IN SEARCH OF INTELLIGENT LIFE INCLUDING A CRICKET (JIMNY), ZORRO (BLADE, GAY), AND AN ELLISON (HARLAN)

Where to begin? Love the remarks in response to my remarks, by the way. Um...about HE in school. Well, what I was thinking was that because HE often throws in a fifty-dollar word here and there, causing the reader to go to The Unabridged and look it up, it would be a good thing. But, as it was pointed out, this would cause actual thinking and learning in the student, which would cause them to question authority--specifically, the teacher.

Oh, well....who am I to criticize?

On another note, I have an idea and I would like *YOUR* help. Yes, *YOU*. Out There. I would everyone who reads this to contact every bookstore within their local telephone calling reach and ask that they carry every Harlan Ellison book still in print. Don't be nasty or meanspirited about it. Just ask if they have, say, THE ESSENTIAL ELLISON. If they don't, ask they to stock it. If they do, ask them if they have other books by HE. Like ANGRY CANDY. If they have that in stock, just keep going down the list. I think this country needs a smack up side its head and that smack comes in the form called "Harlan Ellison".

Also, I mentioned this once before, but I will mention it again: I am changing addresses (both snail mail and e-mail) in a few weeks. If you want to keep in touch with me outside this site, e-mail me or drop me a line.

Jim

Beth (witkowski.7@osu.edu) Wed May 8 10:06:59 1996
Well, itıs good to know there actually is a 13th grade in Canada. Now I know that guy from Sault Ste. Marie wasnıt trying to deny having failed a grade.

Ellison in schools, eh? Hmmmm.

My feelings are twofold on this: 1) Do they teach Abbie Hoffman in public schools? Kathy Acker? Ellison encourages, begs, forces, tricks people into thinking for themselves. For many schools, thatıs a daaaaaangerous agenda. That leads to *shudder* rebellion! ³If we encourage them to think for themselves, then they might question what we tell them²! Iıll never forget the curled-lip, look of fear I got from my English teacher upon seeing me reading ³How to Talk Dirty and Influence People². I think she really expected me to say ³Fuck this Chaucer shit and give me money for smokes² in class the next day.

Which leads me to: 2) Out of the six schools I attended (including elementary and high school-- parochial and public), the vast majority of my teachers not only had not heard of HE-- they wouldnıt have been able to understand him. And if they had understood him-- they wouldnıt have been able to handle him (or the thoughts he provoked). These people tried to tell me ³February² was spelled with one ³r², ³tintinnabulation² was an onomatopoeic word made up by Edgar Allan Poe, so many homeless people are Viet Nam vets because they never had the chance to learn a skill, that they couldnıt understand why people enjoyed kissing so much, and that Kennedy was the greatest president we ever had-- among many other misguided or downright WRONG facts and ideas. And that last example wasnıt even from a parochial school teacher! And the ones who _were_ brilliant and easy-to-relate-to and who _did_ give us the real life, no shit facts, were often the ones censored by the principal or school board.

Keegan, I don't know how you do it. You must have great strength.

And, Rick, we see how you are when you get a life (read: relationship)! No new rant, no conversation participation. Uh-huh!

Jason Wed May 8 00:50:33 1996
So much to say. So many directions to go in, ah to hell with it, I'll travel them all.
First off let's tackle education. I've already mentioned weeks ago that the ministry plans to cut the minimum amount of English required to graduate. Problem is I can't really complain about my education, because it was pretty damn good. Currently in Ontario it's a five year standard high school program. Required credits were 5 full years of required English. 2 years of science and math, 1 year of art, p.e. history, geography, tech and french. And lots and lots of choices for elective courses. I beleive it's changed now, but that's what I got. I also got a better education than most people, because I was in a program for the gifted. I'm not telling this to brag or to make myself seem the second coming of Einstien, although I did share a physics class with him. I'm telling you this so you can see where I'm coming from. In the curriculum, we don't differ from the standard classes. Where we differ is the speed at which we cover the material in science and math courses. In the arts courses where we benifited was the fact that we do a lot of independent projects, and they are wide open, in terms of both subject, and presentation. In English classes I have done oral presentations, theatrical sketches, creative responses to a novel, I even did a short film that combined Wuthering Heights with Quantum Leap. (Which turned out pretty good by the way.) In terms of authors it was wide open, my final year a friend of mine did his independent on comic books (granted, they were comics on the Alan Moore, Neil Gaiman level, but still.
Ultimately we were different because we were taken seriously and we took our education seriously. Jim did your friend say why HE was a bad idea? Was it censorship so much as it was his belief that the students couldn't handle it? That's the funny thing about censorship. In an intelligent, informed society it isn't necessary. You can publish stuff like Communism: Why it isn't dead. (see my rant for more on that if you want.) Because an intelligent informed society, will look at that, and they will a) know the facts behind the propoganda or b) find out the facts. Once they do that, they will see that a forest died for what amounts to dribble garbage and ignore them, and hopefully that group would die out like the stupid dinosaurs that they are. Problem is we don't have an intelligent, informed sociey. We have a society, where most people die before they think to paraphrase Mark Twain, or as one of JT's quotes said when they believe they're thinking they're only rearranging their prejudices. They're people Out There who'll believe anything, because it's in a book or Odin help me, on television. It's what HE calls the
Tyranny of the Stupid. Pro-censorship people are scared that other viewpoints might have some validity. They say that certain things might be offensive. So what? Change the channel. If it's offensive enough the lack of ratings will pull it off the air, or it would in an intelligent informed society. They also say that children can get desensitised to the violence and act out what they see. Children see violence and act it out. I got news for them, children are physical in nature, some of that physicality is bound to translate into violence.
Personally I'm more concerned with the pro-stupidity message on t.v. today especially in shows geared for teens. Saturday mornings on NBC is a perfect example. They had one of those 'The more you know' segements where some admittedly popular actor praises teachers, the network then show an episode of Saved by the Bell (My sister is the reason this garbage was on by the way.) this school based show has only two short scenes in a classroom, in which the teachers were portrayed as zero-dimensional caricatures so incompenent they make the Keystone Cops look like the Mossad in comparison. The kids of course are attractive, popular and cool, unless of course they do well in school, in which cases they are pimple covered losers who wear glasses held together with duct tape. Which message are the kids going to follow eh?
You want to know why 95% of stuff out there is crap. It's because most people have no clue what's crap and what isn't. HE said in 'Revealed at Last! What killed the Dinosaurs and You Don't Look so Hot Yourself, HE talked about how people couldn't name ten authors. I say they can, because of all the books being turned into movies, but they wouldn't name any of the authors whose names they should Steele and Krantz, yeah of course I know them, but who's J.D. Salinger? These people go to see Cats, and call Andrew Lloyd Webber a genius, but couldn't name five of Shakespear's plays.
Example: My sister was stuyding Merchant of Venice and of course she got the Coles Notes (Cliff Notes you call them?) I hadn't read MoV and wouldn't mind doing so. I asked her if she had brought it home, and she said 'no I only have the english version' Scary huh? That's another thing, for a lot of people who can tell the difference between crap and non-crap they choose crap, because art makes you think at a level not necessarily profound, but different enough that most people don't wan't to go there. Most audiences don't want a challenge. They want to go home thinking they're great people.
I write. Not for a living, not yet, but I write for myself, and because I want to affect other people, art does that. I don't enjoy defending my work, but at least my work put something in their head.
HE said 'you can't send a message in Hollywood, because the order of the guard changes every week, and every week there's a new cadre of arrogant, stupid people. Hollywood is run by the AAA accountants, agents and attorneys,' people who don't understand the creative process. Why do writers put up with it, what choice do they have. Most of them aren't strong enough to do what HE did, that's a hard way to go. The AAA holds most of the power, they'll make Tommy Boy just as soon as they'll make Fargo. Remember they never say this movie by the writer of Fargo. It's the Director or the Producer, which I don't get, how do they contribute creatively.
I have more to say, but I'm dead tired. Excuse all the spelling and punctuation errors
jason

Jason Wed May 8 00:49:05 1996
So much to say. So many directions to go in, ah to hell with it, I'll travel them all.
First off let's tackle education. I've already mentioned weeks ago that the ministry plans to cut the minimum amount of English required to graduate. Problem is I can't really complain about my education, because it was pretty damn good. Currently in Ontario it's a five year standard high school program. Required credits were 5 full years of required English. 2 years of science and math, 1 year of art, p.e. history, geography, tech and french. And lots and lots of choices for elective courses. I beleive it's changed now, but that's what I got. I also got a better education than most people, because I was in a program for the gifted. I'm not telling this to brag or to make myself seem the second coming of Einstien, although I did share a physics class with him. I'm telling you this so you can see where I'm coming from. In the curriculum, we don't differ from the standard classes. Where we differ is the speed at which we cover the material in science and math courses. In the arts courses where we benifited was the fact that we do a lot of independent projects, and they are wide open, in terms of both subject, and presentation. In English classes I have done oral presentations, theatrical sketches, creative responses to a novel, I even did a short film that combined Wuthering Heights with Quantum Leap. (Which turned out pretty good by the way.) In terms of authors it was wide open, my final year a friend of mine did his independent on comic books (granted, they were comics on the Alan Moore, Neil Gaiman level, but still.
Ultimately we were different because we were taken seriously and we took our education seriously. Jim did your friend say why HE was a bad idea? Was it censorship so much as it was his belief that the students couldn't handle it? That's the funny thing about censorship. In an intelligent, informed society it isn't necessary. You can publish stuff like Communism: Why it isn't dead. (see my rant for more on that if you want.) Because an intelligent informed society, will look at that, and they will a) know the facts behind the propoganda or b) find out the facts. Once they do that, they will see that a forest died for what amounts to dribble garbage and ignore them, and hopefully that group would die out like the stupid dinosaurs that they are. Problem is we don't have an intelligent, informed sociey. We have a society, where most people die before they think to paraphrase Mark Twain, or as one of JT's quotes said when they believe they're thinking they're only rearranging their prejudices. They're people Out There who'll believe anything, because it's in a book or Odin help me, on television. It's what HE calls the
Tyranny of the Stupid. Pro-censorship people are scared that other viewpoints might have some validity. They say that certain things might be offensive. So what? Change the channel. If it's offensive enough the lack of ratings will pull it off the air, or it would in an intelligent informed society. They also say that children can get desensitised to the violence and act out what they see. Children see violence and act it out. I got news for them, children are physical in nature, some of that physicality is bound to translate into violence.
Personally I'm more concerned with the pro-stupidity message on t.v. today especially in shows geared for teens. Saturday mornings on NBC is a perfect example. They had one of those 'The more you know' segements where some admittedly popular actor praises teachers, the network then show an episode of Saved by the Bell (My sister is the reason this garbage was on by the way.) this school based show has only two short scenes in a classroom, in which the teachers were portrayed as zero-dimensional caricatures so incompenent they make the Keystone Cops look like the Mossad in comparison. The kids of course are attractive, popular and cool, unless of course they do well in school, in which cases they are pimple covered losers who wear glasses held together with duct tape. Which message are the kids going to follow eh?
You want to know why 95% of stuff out there is crap. It's because most people have no clue what's crap and what isn't. HE said in 'Revealed at Last! What killed the Dinosaurs and You Don't Look so Hot Yourself, HE talked about how people couldn't name ten authors. I say they can, because of all the books being turned into movies, but they wouldn't name any of the authors whose names they should Steele and Krantz, yeah of course I know them, but who's J.D. Salinger? These people go to see Cats, and call Andrew Lloyd Webber a genius, but couldn't name five of Shakespear's plays.
Example: My sister was stuyding Merchant of Venice and of course she got the Coles Notes (Cliff Notes you call them?) I hadn't read MoV and wouldn't mind doing so. I asked her if she had brought it home, and she said 'no I only have the english version' Scary huh? That's another thing, for a lot of people who can tell the difference between crap and non-crap they choose crap, because art makes you think at a level not necessarily profound, but different enough that most people don't wan't to go there. Most audiences don't want a challenge. They want to go home thinking they're great people.
I write. Not for a living, not yet, but I write for myself, and because I want to affect other people, art does that. I don't enjoy defending my work, but at least my work put something in their head.
HE said 'you can't send a message in Hollywood, because the order of the guard changes every week, and every week there's a new cadre of arrogant, stupid people. Hollywood is run by the AAA accountants, agents and attorneys,' people who don't understand the creative process. Why do writers put up with it, what choice do they have. Most of them aren't strong enough to do what HE did, that's a hard way to go. The AAA holds most of the power, they'll make Tommy Boy just as soon as they'll make Fargo. Remember they never say this movie by the writer of Fargo. It's the Director or the Producer, which I don't get, how do they contribute creatively.
I have more to say, but I'm dead tired. Excuse all the spelling and punctuation errors
jason

keegan Tue May 7 20:48:30 1996
Sue-
I agree that the "audience" is often the truly injured party in all this. What a drag to pay thirty bucks to see a band play note for note what they played on the disc (or worse yet, lip-synch). What a drag to buy a bestselling book just to find out it's a pile of mindless crap (that book about the bridges comes to mind). Artists,(I think) THRIVE when the audience clamors for a challenge. It lets the artist know that s/he has some freedom to climb limbs and walk on tightropes--or to throw things if necessary. Audience and artist can sharpen each other, but only if the audience wants to do more than sit passively watching the cute little creative monkey perform. Puts an edge on things. It's a gift if an artist lets you get that close--watch out and don't encroach the space, thanks. Wish there were more out there like you who would say, "Enough, already! No more junk food. Give my soul REAL sustenance". And yes, it has everything to do with HE because he has fed many of us in the hungrier times.

You can shoot for the lowest common denominator and be popular, or you can shoot for the highest standards and piss just about everyone off. Diplomacy will only take ya so far and sometimes it comes down to rolling with the punches. Am I complaining? Nah. Just the way it is....

Sue Luesse (jaluesse@htonline.com) Tue May 7 20:22:52 1996

It is not blather, nor morbid, Jim. It is real. It is honest. It expands the understanding of people who can't experience it directly. I don't want to critique the creative process, or run with the flags in Dante's Inferno. I want to affirm art, with all the little support I have to offer.

I agree. The trick is sorting out who is who. If I had a penny for every ego posing as artistic talent (genius, even), I could afford to support every real talent in every art, give them the total freedom to indulge their muse, and complete control in presenting it to the rest of us for maximum artistry.

Same goes for any category can be devised to put people into. Including the audience. That is why throughout history little colonies of artists and supporters have sprung up. They were sorting it out. It is no different today. Except, due to the wonders of technology, it is no longer necessary to purchase homes in the same neighborhood to gather.

For the artist, the 'wall' is getting the art out to the world with the least damage in transit. For many more of us, the 'wall' is being denied access to what we know exists somewhere.. If you think it is degrading for an artist to talk business, you should try being 'the Market' which does not permit - and, hey!, wait a minute! I DO permit!! I DEMAND!! Don't tell me to shut up, and pronounce me too ignorant to know what I think, what I feel, what I understand..

So, we look for the short-cuts. The word-of-mouth, introductions to short stories, home pages on the web, everywhere to satisfy the need for art. And get burned by the wannabe's and posers. And are told it is our own fault we can't tell sight unseen before the fact what is art.. And trust the 'pros', who tell us we don't know what we want, we aren't good enough to choose and decide on our own.

And occasionally - the magic moment. Wit is whispered, and we know it means intelligence. Concepts are alluded to, and we can smell the art we hunger for. And the artist dismisses us as 'the Market', the great unwashed and unclean mass to be silent as we are uplifted. If we are lucky, we only put our money on the table for the businessmen to snatch as we snatch the treasure from their wares, and run home to indulge our 'dirty' need where no one will see, and gather in the shadow places to share the forbidden fruit with each other.

So if I make a scene at our School Board meetings, demanding all those Ellison, Kafka, Borges, *No-No* books which I donated be put on the shelves, and make it easier for them to just do what I want than let me bring their business to a grinding halt with my just-this-side-of-the-line unpleasantness and negative publicity -- who thanks me? I did nothing. I still don't exist, as another generation discovers (and buys, and keeps, and supports, and spreads). I am still the ignorant great unwashed 'Market', blamed for what opresses me.

Jim - I want to read your work. I am not asking to be special, or to get something for nothing. If I do not spend my money in support of you, no access to your work will be left. I can't single-handed make The Way It Is fair. I can chip away at it, one special order at a time. Send me what I need to know e-mail if you like.

And what has this to do with HE? Everything. Ellison was the first artist to tell me there was a 'wall'. I was not so ignorant I didn't understand. He stands tall on his side of the wall, chipping away at it. I try to do the same on my side.

Try high - Fly straight - Drive safe

keegan Tue May 7 18:39:01 1996
Jim- BTW, my day gig is teaching in a public school. My opinion of public education is that it is basically cowardly, so your friend's response to your (good) idea doesn't surprise me.

keegan Tue May 7 18:26:26 1996
Yep-you nailed it Jim. I'm at the party and dancing on the table. You HAVE to look out for yourself 'cause ain't no one else going to it for you. I noticed that when HE spoke about TLDV on the last Buzz, he not only ripped into the self serving publishers, but into the WRITERS who handle their own business affairs in a disorganized, haphazard and unprofessional manner for ALLOWING "the business" to walk all over them.

Look, for human-rights causes, I occasionally sing for free. I sometimes perform free for "family" (and by this I don't necessarily mean just blood relatives) but only if asked. But everybody else pays. I'm fair. It's a sliding fee scale and believe me, MCA,CBS etc, should they ever decide to make me part of their "stable", will pay much more dearly for my work than the Community School of Music and Arts ever did simply because they can and should. I won't be a cheap 'ho to big Pimp Daddy Mack MCA. No way. And this attitude is precisely the kind of thing that might keep me from realizing big success. I really don't care. I'd rather deal with the consumer direct anyway. I don't think what I do is diminished simply because I'm less than world famous.

Of course, if I ever did find "fame", I would be forced into the rough-ass rugby game of the entertainment world that I now observe with sneer and giggle of a second-string pine rider. Let's see who's laughin' if THAT happens. I sure hope the training and dues paying comes through so's it's ME.

James C. Hess (James.Hess@Colorado.edu) Tue May 7 17:55:15 1996
Oh my....oh me. Where should widdle ol' me begin? Let's begin with the agent/producer/director/big-bad-and-evil-S.O.B.s who would rape and pilage the noble creator of whatever. Yes, there are total sleazeballs Out There. I know this as fact, having been screwed--I think--by almost all of them on at least one occassion. But let me say for The Record that my agent (with whom I have been for several years and without whom I would be nothing) is a good, kind, caring person who defends me to the end. More or less. Look: Simply, kiddos and kiddettes, there are good and there are bad (and there are just plain butt ugly). The trick is figuring out who is what.

And if you are going to go through this life worrying and whining about the EVIL Them Out There who get their jollies from screwing you out of whatever, then pack it in. Give up. Don't fight the fight.

On the other hand....if you do what you want to do--writing, singing, music--because you want to and you know about them Out There and you really could care less what they do to you, hurrah! Welcome to the party! As that infamous henpecked hack William "Mr. Bill" Shakespeare once wrote, "Unto the breach once more more!" (Beats me, though, why he would a) worry about a breach b) why he would go unto).

Now...that all said, let us move to a juicier subject: [Said with resonance and god-like depth]: HARLAN ELLISON.

So I'm humping along, trying to not let the bastards known as Them Out There get me down, reading this here and now bit about illiteracy in these here and now United States of America when it hits me: If we want to curb that there problem, if we want children and adults to learn to read why not let them read things that mean things?

Like Harlan Ellison?

So I trot my widdle occassionally pleasant (and fashionably correct) self to the school where a long-time friend of mine teaches and lay this here and now notion on him.

Care to guess what the response was?

Not the one I was expecting. No sir. I was asked ever so politely not to mention *that* idear again.

Why, I wondered? Okay...so we might have to white out certain words because children should not be using that kind of language, but come on....

I pressed the issue. I demanded answers. Made a pest of myself. Surely the student should be allowed to read *some* of HE's works?

Nope.

Okay. Fine. Great job our Public Education System is doing, right?

So I come here thinking we might have a talk of things HE. But...again I seem to be in the wrong.

Or am I? I wonder...

I wonder what anyone Out There thinks of HE. I wonder what anyone Out There thinks when a book called THE GLASS TEAT is published then deep-sixed for years and years because it took a certain politician and his band of not-so merry men to task. I wonder what people Out There think when the facts of that particular book remain true twenty-five years after the fact.

Anyway, personal morbid and deranged curiosity aside, I will stop blathering for now.

Sue Luesse (A Love Song for Jerry Falwell) Tue May 7 16:48:05 1996

Wonderful! Jim, why do you suppose any of us read HE? Fire when ready, Gridley. And do be careful not to bend the nails, I plan to use them to put up