The Ellison Bulletin Board

Comments Archive - 03/24/96 to 04/24/96

Jason (The Tomb of the Unknown Soldier) Wed Apr 24 20:13:33 1996
BTW I don't recommend listing your address as The Tomb of the Unknown Soldier unless you like getting only mail addressed to 'Occupant'
Well Sue, Beth, and everybody else. Let's face it just because people work in a bookstore, doesn't mean that they; A) have strong knowledge of books and authors, B) like to read, and/or C) have ever read anything more meaningful than the menu at McDonalds.
I find that when I ask for a book by a particualar author, If the author's name isn't Danielle Steele, John Grisham, Anne Rice, Tom Clancy, or any of the other new Hollywood authors. I get a blank stare, and a "I don't know lemme check the computer, whawas the name again?" "Harlan Ellison you illilterate toad!" I respond, 'you illiterate toad' I don't say, but often think. I'm not knocking these authors, for the most part I have not read their work, and therefore have no right to say anything about it, I'm just using their names, because they're the only authors whose names will be recognized by 90% of the general public. My problem is the society that generates the neccessity of having to put your work in another medium. Let's face it, why would people buy a book when they can watch it as a movie ten months down the road, save those brain cells for more important things like trying to keep track of the plot threads of Melrose Place. And if they do buy the book it's so that they can show off to their friends. "I just read the new Grisham novel, it's great. I hear 'so and so' is going to star in the movie. Won't that be great?" Movies and television are not the only reasons why books aren't read. Time is also a factor. My friends are a group of intelligent, reasonably well read group of people, (that's why they're my friends.) They all say the same thing, that they don't have much time for reading. As university students who are also working part-time I can't blame them. In fact the only reason why I have time to read so much is because it takes me an hour to get to school by bus. I still have a 'To Read List' that goes from Homer's Illiad to Stephen Hawking's A Brief History Of Time, plus the twenty-five or so of Shakespear's plays that I haven't got to yet. I also know that I'm never going to read everything on my list, in fact I'd be lucky to get through half.
Give this some polish and you could probably call this a rant. I've been wanting to do a guest rant for some time now, but I haven't had the courage to ask Rick yet, because I'm a twenty year old university student who can't afford to leave home, and my anthill of life experience, completley pales in comparison to the million Everests that is HE's.
Why am I ranting? It probably has to do with the cuts in education that my provincial government is implementing. First they want to cut high school to four years from five. Now I know almost all, if not all of you have had only four years of high school, but from personal experience, that fifth year gave me some opportunities to explore courses that I had an intrest in, but wouldn't have the time to take in a four year course. It was in that year that I discovered my need to write. They also plan to cut 120 hours from the required amount of english classes, almost guaranteeing if not functional illiteracy, then intellectual illiteracy. Spawning a generation of empty headed zombies whose idea of deep conversation, is discussing the latest Boyz II men video. I've heard these conversations on the bus, they're scary!
Maybe I should refill my Prozac™ perscription, Nah!
As always your humble (and longwinded) servant Jason
p.s. Rick, Could do a guest rant, I promise it'll be well polished. My e-mail address is somewhere on this page if you want to reach me.

Beth (witkowski.7@osu.edu) Wed Apr 24 11:51:30 1996
Sue: I've had many similar experiences in my searches-- with other authors besides HE, also. At a Walden's once, after spelling K-E-S-E-Y at the clerk's request, assuming he'd mis-heard, I said, "You know... One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest"? He said, "Are you looking for an author or a director?"

I just keep remembering the most valuable piece of advice my mother ever gave me: never assume other people are as smart as you.

Try Little Professor, if you have them. I found many pieces of my collection at Phoenix Books in the early to mid-80's. I hear they (Phoenix) remain in other cities.

Sue Luesse Tue Apr 23 14:32:32 1996

Jason - What's all this rot about too much time on your hands? People bust their buns for 45 years doing unfulfilling work to earn money - so they can kick back and enjoy the remainder. So you took a short cut. Smart.
Besides, any creative endeavor requires vast amounts of first-hand research to accumulate enough stimulating experience for distillation into the essence of art. You're just doing the groundwork necessary.

What's wrong with "your humble servant"? When I dust off the screen, I can see an irony.

Anne Corwin - Saw your name on this B-Board on my first fly-by. Been bugging me ever since. I am sure I have seen it in print somewhere else before. Vague impression as connected with another author, either as protogee or an introduction. Would you please jog my memory. I'll borrow Ricks rubber mouth thingie if you think it will help.

I am now going to reread I Have No Mouth & I Must Scream. It is my only recourse. Pouting, scowling, and bitching have failed to yield any new (to me, anyway) HE works to read. I am going to feel sorry for myself for a while. Only because I ran out of Bookstore People to vent emotions upon. Too much time on the hands, harummpphh. Write me something to READ!

Yours in curmudgeonly heights of crotchityness - oh, who cares?

keegan Tue Apr 23 10:06:28 1996
Only have a second, but if you haven't checked the News link above, do so. Good news about Harlan!

Matt Gentile (matt_gentile@smtpgw.sdcs.k12.ca.us) Mon Apr 22 22:17:29 1996
Help! I am desperately seeking a copy of the videos for the much loved (at least by me) sci-fi series STAR LOST, created by Mr. Ellison.

Please, please, if you know where I can obtain these copies, e-mail me at:

matt_gentile@smtpgw.sdcs.k12.ca.us

Jason (Second star to right and straight on 'til morning) Mon Apr 22 22:11:55 1996
I'm back. Found a paperback copy of Web in the City avaliable for five bucks, I'd buy it, but I'm saving up for Edgeworks vol.1. Oh And yet another theory as to why you can't find HE anywhere. Book store owners don't have a clue! For further support of this claim see Sue's last post. HE as new age?! If that doesn't give another heart attack nothing will! Anyway, store owners have no clue and therefore order very few copoes of HE especially since they're short story collections or novellas. Check the stores, see how many novella or short story collections you find. The stores order only a few copies figuring they're lucky if they sell any period. Of course we intelligent beings knowing that these books contain the best stories on the planet, buy them out, and the stores don't bother to reorder. And we for the most part don't ask them to order them because for some reason we assume if it's not in the store it's out of print. I had no clue The Essential Ellison was in print. Same with Angry Candy, it came out over 6 years ago, it wasn't in stores, I thought it was out of print. Plus the stores are lazy, they don't want to bother getting one book by an author they haven't heard of, not when they can dump another of their countless copies of the latest John Grisham movie-to-be or a get them hooked on an author who has a series of books that link together, hoping that if you buy one, you'll have to buy them all. Like that nice dragon lady. (See Sue's post again.) That's theory # 2. (How many of you think I have too much time on my hands?)
Your humble servant Jason
p.s. (I'm still looking for a better cut off line then that. Any suggestions?)

WolfMistress Mon Apr 22 15:58:05 1996
Thanks, Rick. Once again, the voice of reason crying in the wilderness.... Have numerous individual comments. Will try to get back to post them sometime today....Mondays are not good...It occurred to me that all this chaotic back-&-forth here ever since HE's heart attack had the desired effect -- HE thrives on Chaos! So, it went out on the beam after all.....

Sue Luesse (jaluesse@htonline.com) Sat Apr 20 19:44:35 1996

Thanks for the Titles Jason. I have jsut spent a frustrating day 'book shopping'. Hit the overpriced Big Name Chains, the used book stores, and the local folks. Found only I Robot (under Asimov's name - in the Entertainment Section??!!). Had to deal with the X-pert clerk, who continually referred to HE as 'she'. And the old dweeb at the center of his own fantasy universe, who advised me HE is FAR too difficult to understand - might as well read Kafka (told I had..in German) - and those 'nice' dragonlady books (McCafferty) are more for people 'like me'. Grrrrrr.

So is there a big run on HE stuff, now that news of his misfortune has hit the book collector as investment circles? Or are most people really that ignorant? I have decided to turn the search for titles over to my beloved other. He loves the thrill of the chase, the quest for victory, and he is rather imposing in his bike leathers when he demands the goods. II spent the rest of the afternoon fondling old HE books, and putting them in a variety of arrangements on the bookshelf. Even dusted off a few. Our Ellis library includes all books through Shatterday, several anthologies in which HE is included, and a couple of Analogus with commentary, etc. from HE. It seems so vast and impressive.. Now it seems so sad and lonely without the rest of the family...

Rick - don't know you, but it is your ball, and you can take it away any time to impose your rules. Sure glad you aren't that way. I find it helpful to get the context of statements in texts - by reading a lot of the person to let things gel on their own. No I cannot see the body language clues. But I can absorb a consistant usage of words with a common underlying value (like whether lazy or patient is used to say 'not yet'). I obviously appreciate your stance that allows for that. By the way, great page! Good Rant (neat to hear as a computer virgin). And a very, VERY big *THANK YOU* for going the extra mile during HE's crisis - not only keeping us all informed, but becoming our link to giving him our support.

Jason - your thesis has merit. I tend to think the format is less important than consistance of format - so we know where to look. I also think the problems I encountered have a lot to do with HE laymen categorizing the work under strange and diverse labels (one store had him listed as New Age - but had no copies of anything anyway, so to argue was pointless). I had the same problems years ago, and his books were all hardcover or paperback then. Maybe HE went to trade in the hopes the size alone would put his in a smaller & easier to find section...

Haven't tried the coffee recipe. Didn't really have any inclinations one way or the other. But now that I've heard James Hess(?) review -- well! I've got to try it..

Try high - fly straight - drive safe (the life you save may be mine)

James C. Hess (James.Hess@Colorado.edu) Sat Apr 20 17:32:15 1996
Hey, hey, hey!

Glad to hear HE is doing better. (Like he'd die without a fight....hah!) Anyway, um, Jason? (Sorry, this darn thing won't let me scroll back today for some unknown reason) thanks for the information and theory on HE's books. The problem is I already have all the books you named. I am at the point where I am looking for writings by HE that are waaaaaay back in time. Things like SOUNDS OF A SCYTHE. In other words, the early HE. (Yes, I know they are out of print at this moment in time and space, but surely there must one used or rare book store with these jewels in stock.)

Also, I tried that coffee recipe. I should be awake through the end of the century. Man, whatta kick!

To other news: As you may or may not know there is this annual thing called The World Affairs Conference in Boulder Colorado. People the likes of Molly Ivins and Roger Ebert show up here every year. (I don't think Ebert has missed one yet.) And although I may bring all HE's wrath and anger down on my humble little head, I was thinking it would be great if he could come next year. All those in favor, e-mail me. All those who think I am a blithering idiot and aspiring village idiot, e-mail me that too.

Thanks again for the space!

Jim

Anakin O'Hara (TBA) Sat Apr 20 13:49:16 1996
Sorry Rick, I haven't been around much, I'm glad Harlan is doing fine,
but the darned thing is, I didn't know about it. This Library that I use
the computer at, killed it's subscription to Starlog, they only have Asimov's
now. Also, my chat line is moving, and I will welcome everyone to Mara's Cafe
at Irresistable Chat, the grand opening will be at 12:00pm May 25, 1996, hopefully!
Still, I'm a little peeved about not hearing about Harlan, but I've been doing
theater. I left a get well note for the master, he'll be fine, Harlan's tough.
See you all later, Ciao, Anakin!

keegan Sat Apr 20 12:16:19 1996
JT-
I'll admit you pushed some of my buttons. But I thank you for that. It made me push back, maybe not powerfully, but at least as well as I could. Made my brain jump and react and that is a Good Thing. Thanks for kicking butt. Gotta be done sometimes, I suppose.

Jason-
Thanks for (among other things) the Ellison Diablo recipe. It goes in a card and in the box today!

Rick-
You're wise. Thanks for ring-uh, I mean-webmastering this place.

Everyone else-
Thanks for being there and reading and writing-you know, being literate and caring enough to "converse" (it really *is* difficult without that TONE of voice and physical expression--especially for one who IS a VOCAList. I'm learning from all of you, though. Thanks.).

Have a weekend, all. I'm going to go spend some time in Real Life, now. All best!

Jason (It's 3 posts down) Sat Apr 20 00:14:24 1996
I just dropped in to mention a theory as to why you can't find HE's stuff in most bookstores, where I find Rick making one of the most sensible and impartial posts I've seen in days (my posts included) Good for you, Rick. (I don't care what you say this isn't sucking up!) Sorry just talking to the voice in my head. Anyway, the point that was in contention, has fallen off by the wayside a way back. I'm not interested in carrying a grudge match, but I won't be pushed around by anyone either. Same as I would act in person. Anyway back to why I'm posting this. At the 'World's Biggest Bookstore' I found several HE books, Angry Candy, Deathbird Stories, Mind Fields, Mefisto in Onyx, I Robot, and The Essential Ellison., But they were all in the SF/Fantasy, trade paperback section. My theory is this; One of the main reasons that HE's books aren't found is because they are so large. Most people by paperbacks, something they can fit in a purse or maybe an oversized pocket, few people buy trade paperbacks so stores carry few copies. Also contributing to lack of volume in stores, is the prohibitive price for most people $15 to $30, and they take up more space than paperbacks. I beleive that HE would be more popular if he puts some stories out in standard paperback form. That's what I think. How about you?
Your humble servant. Jason

Rick Wyatt (webmaster@harlanellison.com) Fri Apr 19 22:15:52 1996
As curator of this mess, I usually try to stay out of the fray here, but I'm going to dive in for just a second or two.

For reasons which I go into in much more detail in my latest rant (you can get to it by clicking that little "Rant" text at the top of the page), I am inclined to agree with JT's comments about the Internet empowering many people who might be real milquetoasts face-to-face. And, like I say in the rant, this is both the most heartening and discouraging thing about the Net.

Where we break paths is that I think it's pointless to denigrate or belittle someone for this dichotomy. I think it's wonderful that here it is our words and our words alone that give us strength and forward our ideas - and that is to be encouraged and nurtured, not slapped around with personal challenges and threats. The belligerent, and the easily-offended as well, do not fare well in this type of venue - without tones of voice and physical cues it is VERY easy to misinterpret or misread something, and those who overreact or jump to conclusions are likely to find themselves quickly embroiled in either an unasked-for flamefest or a storm of confused signals. Of COURSE people are going to misread what you say. Of COURSE they're going to sometimes only see what they want to see, and respond to only the stuff that pleases them. It's part of being a writer, even in this shadow realm. Deal with it, and don't make the mistake of taking it too personally.

The hard part about all this is that since we don't have voice or presence to emphasize our points, we must use language alone to stir and sway others - and that means that language is often more passionate and inflammatory than one would see in other forums. There is nothing wrong with this, but it does make it all the more important to properly qualify one's remarks to avoid unpleasant repurcussions.

I've been participating in this kind of discussion for well over a decade, and while I look upon challenges, name-calling, and one-upmanship with some distaste I realize they are all inevitable aspects of on-line interactions where the quality of the relationship and even a kind of pecking order cannot be established any other way. For my part, then, I have no problem with spats, flames, disagreements, and any other manifestations of the spirit which drives us to reach others and read authors like Ellison in the first place. Unless the discussion devolves into abusive personal attack or foul language for it's own sake, I don't have any plans to edit or delete any post (except at the request of the poster, of course). So carry on, and for God's sake don't bow out of a conversation just because someone doesn't like the way you type. Screw 'em, they're entitled to their opinion but you are entitled to your voice. Capiche?

Jason (same as always) Fri Apr 19 17:45:41 1996
Note When I started to write my comment JT's hadn't been posted. Maybe I'm an idiot, I don't get the subtlety of switching the names, I just thought JT made an honest mistake. Can someone explain it to me? I'm not trying to win anything, I'm saying what I think. I know I said I was done and I apologize for giving jt more ammo to shoot, so I'll cut my gutter tongue excuse for style that I like to call prose here.
p.s. you're not even close to pushing my button, it's just getting boring.

Jason (Yu104681@yorku.ca) Fri Apr 19 17:24:50 1996
The people have spoken I've said what I've wanted to say so I'm done, jt if there's anything else you have to say let's do it over e-mail and leave these nice people alone okay?
James, the recipe your looking for is Café Ellison Diabolique, it's in the hornbook, here's the recipe,
10-oz. coffee mug
mortar and pestle
Maxim freeze dried instant coffee
El Popular Mexican-style cake chocolate
Ferrara Italian anisette sugar
granulated sugar
boling water
cream

Into a 10-oz. coffee mug spoon 1 and 1/2 teaspoons of Maxim freexe-dried instant coffee, 3 teaspoons of granulated sugar, and 1/4 teaspoon of Ferrara anisette sugar. With a mortar and pestle break off and hand-crush sufficient El Popular Mexican-style cake chocolate from the brick cakes in 15-oz package to produce 3 full tablespoons of finely-crushed chocolate grind. Add it to the mug's contents
Add boiling water to mug's content's leaving one sixth of the mug empty for cream or half and half. Stir well. (HE says the coffee is good for soothing the stomach in the morning or for an aphrodisiac in the evening. Warning HE says never use standard-ground instants of the powdered variety)
WolfMistress thank you for the compliment. What can I say? I learned from the best.
On other notes I just bought The Essential Ellison, (Sue try this book as is it should have most of his best.) This is the last new book I can buy for a while, so I'll be reading it slowly. I did read the afterword with HE talking about the proper way to get revenge I haven't laughed so hard in a long time, it got me some strange looks on the bus though.
Keegan, 'Chatting with Annubis' can also be found as the short story behind the cover in Dream Corridor #4 It's about an archeologist who discovers a tomb guarded by Annubis. I haven't read it in a while, I will do so now and come back with comments.

I'm back Iknow this is under the same post, but my modem has a tendency to go off line when a specific phone is picked up, which it was, so I decided to read the story before fixing the connection. And in the words of Archimedes "Eureka!.... Holy shit where's my towel?" I'm paraphrasing. In other words I just got the story. First off all, the Gods fade away here in this story like they they do in "Oh ye of little faith," but that's just a side note. The reason I had trouble with this story is that I thought that Moses was the secret and so what's the big deal? But in reading it again, I was mistaken. This is how I see it. What if the great secret is what HE postulates in the Deathbird? Dira, Adam, the Mad One, Deathbird all of it, or something like it, and this furture happens because Moses killed off the Gods by stealing their followers. Moses ruined it all, that's why Annubis is denying him entrance into the afterlife. What do you think Jeremy?
Can't think of a snappy line to cut off with, so bye!
p.s. since we've been passing ages back and forth I'm 20, and have been reading HE for about a year now.

JT (jt_neville@agora.stanford.edu) Fri Apr 19 17:23:58 1996
At Harlan's last talk here in SF, he wailed about the fact that his biggest challenge is writing true to his ability and not dumbing down his work just so it sells. There's nothing worse than expressing something and having people miss your gist because of a lack of knowledge. Most people know about Schroedenger's cat and Heisenberg's uncertainty principle. They are commonplace knowledge. Public manna. The point of my cross linking these science cliches in my prose was to highlight the dual application of language. That in writing the words they take on a form that I cannot see. That how they are to be viewed by my audience is dependent on them and not so much in what my intent was. The magic in a good director is that s/he can sense what the audience will perceive and understand how to deliver their ideas across Heisenberg's implied limits. 42.

Well my ire resides... nowhere. What did you see? Big fish, little fish, did you find the young girl or the old hag. MY point is discussion should talk about issues and idea's not what you would name me.

And if I brought a little grumpy challenge to your pretty pretty flower garden that just too bad. And don't lay that childish macho foo foo at my door. I know where I stand and my achievements speak for themselves quite well thank you. Anyway I don't need to go proving myself for every wanna' be the king gunslinger that thinks s/he is fast enough to win. I left those adolescent trappings in recess. IF you want to show me how sharp you think you are try writing with some style instead of that mudslinging, gutter tongue excuse for style you are trying to pass off as prose.

Click. CLick. CLIckCLICkCLICK...CLICK!

Hear that? That's the sound of me pushing your button.

Want to push mine?

http://www.wam.umd.edu/~twoflowr/button.htm

Sue Luesse (jaluesse@htonline.com) Fri Apr 19 14:23:19 1996

keegan -a quick update. It bothered me not to be able to http:// - so I called my local services 'hot line for the computer challenged' (they know me by my voice alone now, I have called so often, and we are definately on a fist name basis). I probably qualify for the Special Olympics by now (but haven't achieved the specialness required, unless being one of the few remaining nondescript average people left counts).

cut to the chase - frustrated reader seeks homepage - 'you again' expert gives explicit details, and walks through the process - and

will miracles never cease - I got there. Bookmarked (can't handle going through that every time). How interesting! If you still want comments, be delighted to comply.

that multiilingual article rally impressed me - english, german, japanese, and icelandic I believe by the diacritical marks - all in the same work! Gotta go. The stick soaking in the plastic pail have loosened their roots by now, and it's off to hole-digging for me. Aaah the great outdoors..

Sue Luesse (jaluesse@htonline.com) Fri Apr 19 12:43:55 1996

Wolfmistress - thanks for the welcome. I would love to hear HE stuff. I do believe I am about 15 yrs behind on my reading. I have only recently obtained my final Writ of Dismissal from the generic and ubiquitous half-life of Parenthood, and recoving nicely from the whiplash acquired snapping my head around to see who said "Mom". It would seem I require a little shepherding myself with regrads to HE works. I get the impresion if all the HE works I missed were piled up, we could simply climb the pile to the next inhabited planet.. Reccomendations gladly accpted for 'must read' in the past 5-10 years. In a note on the oddities of co-incidence - I was in Ann Arbor from '68 - '72. And wasn't that a time? Newspapers full of revolution and free love, and me bustin' butt to work my way through school, wondering where all this good stuff was happening. Found out years later that those impotent "raps" in the Hill Street White House was what the media was hyping. Kind of a comment on life, isn't it? I was there. I was
doing it. I was clueless. But not witless. So I wonder to this day about the entire episode.

keegan - would love to read your work. I wrote down the http:// thing. And as soon as someone shows me how to do that thing, I will. So far, I can manage e-mail, bookmarks, and doing the point and click with the mouse through a variety of services(?) and links (a very slow mouse tapdance, to say the least. But patience. Old dogs do learn new tricks, it just takes longer. If you wish comments, if I would be happy to reply. Please include your Reponse Tolerance Rating (you know, % sensitivity to criticism over % ability to grit the teeth with the need to hear). These things can be so touchy without adequate guidelines.

jt - I'm not so sure my point of view is so very different from yours. I posted Moms Laws for my kids when they got old enough to argue :

1. Emotions Lie.
2. Secrets Kill.
3. The world isn't fair. There's only as much justice in the world as you put into it.
4. Dreams are goals others don't invest in.

I didn't bother going back to the Archives to see how much of my personal philosophy was soiling my point of view. It happens a lot to us all. Can't help being what you are - even in self-chosen anonymity of virtual reality. And there's not a lot of point of nitpicking the past if you are trying to grow with time and experience. Unless, of course you screw up really majorly, and don't particularly see how, and REALLY don't want to do it again. I like to think I have mastered the latter, and can proceed with the former. A conceit, I'm sure. It goes along with my theory that near-sighted people are happier, because the world just looks better to them without all those nasty details. I do hope you write, or are involved in some form of creative endeavor. You appear to have the right stuff for it.

Just a point of clarification. I am a motorcyclist (antique low digit AMA membership number), and love riding. I am not, however, a biker. I just couldn't get into the whole lifestyle/image thing. How does one conform to being a nonconformist? It was too much for me to deal with. So I forswore the Harley-Davidson logo on everything, buy used Japanese bikes, and have a lot of fun getting where I am going. My husband is my only "gang member". Wonders and possibilities all around - and not enough writers to write them, or time for me to read them all. Help me out with a list of 'bests' to get me back on track. Maybe then I will be able to identiy some of the HE quotes I read (and lament not having already known).

Try high - Fly straight - Drive safe

James C. Hess (James.Hess@Colorado.edu) Fri Apr 19 12:37:33 1996
Piss, piss, moan, moan, grumble, howl, wail...-*SCREECH*!!!!!!
Wowzer. I have to deal with the news of HE's near encounter with what Hamlet called the Undiscoverd Country, get screwed over in our ever lovely airport called DIA, and then I come here to find people snipping at each over the dumbest things: the infamous generation gap.
Come on, people. One of the beauties of cyberspace is that one is not judged on superficial stuff as skin color. Can we please, please, please get back to THE subject at hand? HARLAN ELLISON.

Piss, piss, moan, moan, grumble, howl, wail...--*SCREECH*-!!!!

I am looking for several of HE's books. And if anyone has a supply or knows of a supply of HE stuff, let me know. It's getting harder and harder to find what I need to complete my incomplete collection.

Anyway, all the best to HE and to his speedy recovery.

Oh, one more thing: I have it somewhere in this mess I call My Life but I can't put my finger on it at the moment. HE once offered up his recipe for some serious coffee called--I think--Ellison Diablo. Any help in finding this would be greatly appreciated.

Just one more thing: What's the deal with HE's voice at the end of BABYLON 5? I was watching it recently and his voice at the end is gone. What's the deal/

Jim

keegan Fri Apr 19 12:17:30 1996
Gee, I'm sorry! :) It's a bad habit. Maybe I'll curb it by the time I'm 40. Anyway...I'm in agreement with getting back on HE. I haven't read "...Anubis" but would love to hear more about it from anyone who has. I am also tickled pink that HE's hanging tough and recuperating nicely.

WolfMistress Fri Apr 19 11:00:41 1996
Jason - Have to compliment you on your eloquent turn of phrase! "Rhetoric so vicious it will make your ears bleed!" I don't think even HE could have done better! I love it. I also know a few people locally that I'd love to use it on, too.....

WolfMistress (rwhiteanderson@kraft.com) Fri Apr 19 09:52:54 1996
Time Out, All!! Geez! Keegan, please stop apologizing for things you didn't even do! *To Clarify - I am the one who first mentioned 'cynicism' with regard to JT's comments.* My posting of 18 April 09:01 was my response to JT's comeback to my original mention of sending good thoughts, "prayers" or whatever HE's way in light of the news we had all just received. I said, "Your sarcastic cynicism is intriguing." I said it then; I say it now. Webster's defines the word as: "engaging the interest to a marked degree; fascinating." Yes, 'sarcastic cynicism' was (is) a personal judgement. It is how I saw JT's comments through my own 'Life-Lens', so to speak, in light of the topic, which was HE's heart attack and our hope that he recover unimpaired. It is obvious that JT's take on my suggestion was filtered through his/her 'Life-Lens', as it were. I am fascinated by the way people go off on tangents that have nothing whatsoever to do with the basic subject, which was how we all felt about HE at the time. I said what I meant, and that's all. And the anonyminity of the Internet works the same for you, JT, as it does for the rest of us, so what's your point? As for one-on-one, face-to-face confrontations, that is a hollow challenge and you know it. If you have the courage of your convictions, I included my e-mail address once more so there is no mistake. Contact me privately and/or come to Madison, Wisconsin. We'll hash it out over lunch.

You see, JT, you don't know me, either, just as I don't know you. You have no idea who I am or what I am, other than what I have chosen to reveal on this board. The one thing that binds all of us who frequent this board is our appreciation for Harlan Ellison and his Works. Other than that, we are individual islands totally unknown to each other. Occasionally, we try to connect. I perfectly agree with Jason's comments: you are free to say anything you want & I will fight for your right to do so. But please -- leave the attitude at the door. Besides, if you find us all so petty and immature, why are you here? You say you have little time to correspond with people over the Net, but here you are, 3-4 days in a row. Using the Net is part of my job, so I'm in and out of Web Pages all day; it's no trouble for me to stop by on a regular basis.

Anyway - all this is taking us away from one of the major purposes of this Board - the exchange/discussion of information about HE and his works. Some questions have been asked that no one has replied to, so far, and I am more inclined to discuss "Chatting with Anubis" than to continue this exchange. Anybody with me? Many Thanks to Rick for sending our good wishes to the Ellisons.

Beth (witkowski.7@osu.edu) Fri Apr 19 07:34:17 1996
Lately, this place has really been what I live for: good conversation!

Yeeeeees Jason! Very eloquent.

j.t., j.t., j.t., tsk, tsk, tsk! That's the chance you take when you hit the "publish or be damned" button. Keep it coming, but don't be surprised at the backlash. Don't come here dishing it out if you can't take it. Btw, great quotes-- more future answering machine announcements.

And, hey, my two cents on "prayer": I do have personal proof of the power of the mind (negative and positive thoughts). Surely even some of my fellow cynics (yes, I do label myself as one) out there do also. If some people choose to call it "prayer", then so be it.

Jason (yu104681@yorku.ca) Thu Apr 18 21:14:14 1996
jt to put it bluntly, and I know that this probably won't go ever well with you, but did you read your original comment? You called WolfMistress's suggestion, spewing that that happy go lucky 'we live in Eden' crap. You then said that it should kept to ourselves, apperently deciding that some things have no right to be said on this board. Then you imply that those who do so have a weak mind and spirit, irresponsible, and dishonourable and cowardly. Yet you say you weren't attacking anybody. Then you say we don't know what we can expect from death, yet you also say that the dying deserve their rest, how do you know whether or not they deserve what they get when they die or even whether they rest or not. BTW it was Schrödinger who postulated the theory with the cat and it wasn't that we don't know, it was that the cat is neither alive nor dead, the results do not occur until they are witnessed. Heisenberg developed the uncertainty principle, which is that we can know the position or the velocity of a particle, but not both because measuring one affects the measurement of the other. And then you end it with 'and you don't have to like it.' Which is a challenge if I've ever heard one. And then you do it again in your last post at 16:53. For someone who doesn't want to be judged by the likes of us you certainly do a lot of judging yourself, we are apparently Narrow minded, cowardly, immature, indecent, and self indulgent. Why am I responding to your comments, because I enjoy a debate and it's one of the best ways to fight complacency and ignorance. Is it because I disagree with your philosophy, no because in many respects I do agree with it. What I dislike is the attitude that you brought it onto this board. You can do what you like and I have every right to say I don't like what you're doing. If you want I'll say so in person. Do you want to come to me or shall I come to you? And who pays?
Only one quote this time. I don't like what you say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it. Voltaire ('Do you feel the same way?' the petty man says with
a sneer)

keegan Thu Apr 18 21:12:44 1996
*sigh* I want to make sure I'm clear here. I am the first (I think) who in any way referred to the contents of jt's posts as "cynical". I did that by referring to my OWN state of mind as "not as cynical as all that". But look, I didn't mean it as any kind of a put-down or as even as an argument. I actually really love the JT quotes and ideas, I would just *personally* find it intolerable to maintain such a hardcore, no-nonsense persona at all times. It's just not me. I don't view JT as inferior or superior, or even as right or wrong, but as different from me. By the way, anything I've said on the board, I would most certainly say to any of you in person (face-to-face, in the flesh--you know, Real Life). I try to be polite, but I can't back down from an argument. And sometimes it comes down to taking off the gloves and no holds barred. Believe me, I pissed off lots of people and I tend to be rather quick to anger myself. I am no stranger to violent words and acts.
I didn't really take JT's posts personally, though I did express myself personally. I fear that I was misunderstood, but dammit (Jim) I'm a musician not a writer. I apologize if I make you puke.

"I speak for myself. Others have their own voices." --Nellie Wong

JT (you know the place) Thu Apr 18 18:44:59 1996
The pessimist complains about the wind;
The optimist expects it to change;
The realist adjusts the sails.
--William Arthur Ward

A dreamer is one who can only find his way by moonlight, and his punishment is that he sees the dawn before the rest of the world.
--Oscar Wilde

If the creator had a purpose in giving us a neck, s/he surely meant us to stick it out.
--Arthur Koestler

When we walk to the edge of all light we have and take a step into the darkness of the unknown, we must believe that one of two things will happen. There will be something solid for us to stand on or we will be taught to fly.
--Patrick Overton

Every act of creation is first of all an act of destruction.
--Pablo Picasso

You cannot run away from weakness; you must sometimes fight it out or perish. And if that be so, why not now, and where do you stand.
--Robert Louis Stevenson

I will study and get ready, and perhaps my chance will come.
--Abraham Lincoln

No man can think clearly when his fists are clenched.
--George Jean Nathan

JT (jt_neville@agora.stanford.edu) Thu Apr 18 16:53:36 1996
Let's see...

c:\backup.exe /a/resume/c/q:??

running system backup [Please wait:]

wirrrrrrrr

[Decompressing:]

c:\query:search key word:cynic

[Running query:]

[No items found. Try again?]

Hmmph! Isn't that funny. Checked both post's archives and no statements were found that specifically cite what I do, don't, can or can't possibly consider or believe. Odd, from the mewling I see before me, one would think I must have at least spilled some milk. Nope, just double checked. Nothing here.

I posted a rhetorical essay. It didn't ask any questions. It didn't mention or attack any of you and it surely wasn't personal. It was simply a bunch of 1' and 0's representing one of a dipolar event discussion that was threading its way one-sidely through this small bit of cyberspace.

But the responses...

Must be a reflection of what's inside each of you, because there isn't any of that narrow minded claptrap lying around here. If there was, I would be sure to let you all have the stuff as I don't need it.

Know what I love about the Internet? How often one encounters the words of people who obviously have not a jot of power in the real world and like to, here, pretend that they are world shaping, sharp witted, to be idolized big dogs. I find that when one doesn't have to face somebody in person, and physically deal with the confrontation, that it astounds me how much courage people act as if they had. I know damn well if one of the construction grunts ever laid that kind of willy-nilly prattle at my door, that s/he would find themselves back at the hall so fast that there would've been no time for collecting their two hundred dollars. I love the net as it is the great equalizer and I fear it for the false and stupid bravado it gives immature souls who can't act like decent human beings when they encounter someone or thing that does fit into their little, self indulgent micro universe.

Don't insult me. Not one of you knows enough about me to judge, name or label me or my ideas in any way. I'm not throwing stones but I will not sit here and let you either.

As for Sue's last post, maybe the rest of you should go and reread it. While I don't agree with her ideas and have little time to correspond with people over the net, her points were polite, respectful and minus the ugly scar of petty insults. Kudos to you, Sue. Fiat lux internos.

keegan Thu Apr 18 16:29:44 1996
Now I *know* that my problem (part of it at least) is that I just turned 30! WolfMistress and Sue, I'm gonna go buy batteries for that flashlight now. Got plenty of HE to take under the blankets.

Anyway, if you're interested in finding out more about my current generational crisis, go check out my article "Twenty-nine and Holding" at http://www.publiccom.com/14850/9411/commentary.htm. You will find that I have great respect for women in their 40's because I have noticed that my 40something friends, while experiencing their fair share of angst, are having a lot more FUN than I am! BTW, the article online is pretty hacked-up, but that's perfect for a hack like myself. The 'zine editor will fix up the crazy umlauts some day (and add the 29 where it ought to go). Aww, go read it. Maybe you have some advice.

While you're at it, check the family homepage still at http://www.lightlink.com/keegan/index.htm

WolfMistress Thu Apr 18 15:55:38 1996
*SUE* - Hi, Happy Wanderer! At last, Another Of Us Who Grew Up To Become the Kind of People We Hated Back Then (or at least, strongly disliked)! ;) I was beginning to think I was stranded among the Flowering Youth of Our Time or whatever they are, other than Human Beings with their own minds and their own intentions for the World As We Know It. Yup, I did the same stuff with the flashlight and comics. (Still have my collection, too!) Living on a farm made it even more fun, because I could read all about those wonderful Worlds created by Asimov & Heinlein & Clarke, etc., etc. in my treehouse, or laying on a warm bed of staw in the hayloft -- and I soared with the words; I learned how to dream.... Then, *Life* came along and I lost the dream for a lot of years. I really *didn't* trust anyone over 30 - until one day I realized *I* was almost 40 and that meant I didn't trust myself, either...What the hell had happened all of a sudden...?!? Oh, well...

I finally quit taking myself and everything else so seriously, and realized I could actually have a *good time* at this Life-business!! And no, our youth in the 60's and early 70's was no Golden Age or whatever anyone wants to call the so-labelled "Hippie" years. They were hard as hell on some of us. But we had fun, too. For you it was motorcycles; for me it was muscle cars. My very first (and so far only) brand new car was a 1968-1/2 Plymouth Road Runner, 383-4 barrel. Of course my favorite music was Steppenwolf's "Born To Be Wild"! I really wanted a Hemi Charger, but they were only a few available just then & my Mom was already wondering what had happened to her innocent little farm girl... It's called going from rural Western Pennsylvania to Detroit, Michigan in late-1967 without a CLUE!!! Talk about culture shock... I had chosen to go to Wayne State to get away from home... In the interim, I've lived all over the country just about, and I don't think I've ever really recovered from that initial experience...So -- We got older, didn't we? And somewhere along the line we grew up (or did we?) I can't tell, but I'm sure of one thing. I'm not sure why, but this is a *great* time to be alive! At least it is for me, a frustrated engineering-type technofreak who can't get enough of new *toyz* to play with! I learned how to program mainframes (the old IBM 360) in college, and hated it. Had to wait 10-15 years for the technology to catch up with where I'd already been in countless SF stories....

Anyway, Sue, take care. I love your insight into the wisdom out of the mouths of 2-year-olds. I got the same kind of rude awakening a few years ago from my son. We were arguing about something and all of a sudden he just glared at me and said, "You know, I wish you could hear yourself! You sound just like *Gramdma*!" That stopped the argument because, God help me, he was right. As hard as I had tried over the years to *not* be like my Mother, there it was. Maybe I was trying too hard, and yeah, I will freely admit, I do think like my Mom on some issues, but on most others, we are *universes* apart. And so it goes... BTW-my 46th was in January. My son's 26th is in June.

keegan Thu Apr 18 13:30:01 1996
just for the record: I don't think jt labeled him/herself a cynic. *I* used that word to describe jt's thoughts. It was not intended to pigeonhole anyone. Just describing MY view as "not as cynical". Just trying to be fair, here.

Rick Wyatt (webmaster@harlanellison.com) Thu Apr 18 12:46:59 1996
NEWS: Harlan is doing very well and is out of intensive care and even off the heart monitor. The doctors are moving him around a lot but other than that everything is fine. So everyone release that deep breath you've been holding in for the past couple of days...

I will be faxing the first batch of "Get Well" comments off tonight, and after that I am going to try to leave the Ellisons alone for a while.

As for the trade edition of "City" - last I heard was there WILL be a trade edition, just not from Borderlands (Harlan's last word was that Borderlands had made it "impossible" for him to do a trade edition with them).

And finally, my widdle quote, from the Bard of Avon: "There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy" - I welcome all forms of speculations and skepticism here, and respect both as long as they are the product of an intelligent and open mind. Cool?

WolfMistress Thu Apr 18 11:35:35 1996
BTW - Rick - the new Page design is perfectly Harlanesque! Very well done.

Sue Luesse (jaluesse@htonline.com) Thu Apr 18 11:31:51 1996

jt - I agree your 'cynicism' is intriguing. I am never sure when someone gives me a label for themselves if that is a self-defined label, or one others have agreed upon and the recipient accepts. I wonder exactly what you mean by cynicism.

You hit upon many of my personal favorites in your list of quotes. There is intelligence, wit, and an underlying smirk of truth in most of them. I am new to computers (the almost-but-not-quite-a-color of the thing makes me sigh for my beloved old Facit typewriter which took decades to achieve the same lack of identifiable color). So, I am also new to this Board. Forgive me if I ask the same old tired question - Do you write? Please bear in mind this is much like buying a used car for me; you are sick of the old thing, and I think it is possibly the best investment of my life. Indulge me. Sell me. Tell me. It won't make you rich, but it will get that useless pile out of your driveway.

If you think I am offended, or on a holy mission here, you better think again. My kids told me when they were 2 yrs. old "You can't make me". They were right. I stopped trying long ago. The 'baby' now e-mails me from college (how I got sucked into this whole 'puter thing), and not one of us (four kids and the same old two tired parents) have the same take on life. But we all have at least six points of view for reference. I often think the search for truth is like chewing on a blimp - no matter how big a bite I try to take, I always end up watching the majority float away. Feels like colllecting toothpicks to build my house. And I can always use another clear and distinct take on truth. I'm hoping you'll oblige.

Wolfmistress - thanks again. 46? 46 in October for me. I thought the boogeyman took us away at 30, unless we cleverly hid under the covers with our flashlights and Sci-Fi books at night to keep the 'youth juice' flowing. Guess it really works!

I'm moving on to my project for the day now. My daughter gave me a Zebra plant for Easter, which has gone from vibrant green bush to large forked stick with only two leaves in a matter of weeks. I tried talking to it. It it either doesn't like my point of view, or my breath. So I am going to forge a suicide note and pin it to the last leaf that falls, in hopes my daughter will not accuse me of first degree botanicide.

Try high - fly straight - drive safe

Jason Thu Apr 18 10:35:20 1996
jt don't get me wrong I can match cynisism for cynisism, bring up religon, and try to convince me to become one of the Jesus people as HE so elequently calls them, and I will come back with rhetoric so vicious it will make your ears bleed.
Some of my favourite phrases:
The statistics of death are unchanged
One hundred thousand lemmings can't be wrong
After a year in therapy, my psychiatrist said to me "Maybe life isn't for everyone." Larry Brown
Living is a sickness from which sleep provides relief every sixteen hours. It's a palliative. The remedy is death.
Death is not the end. There remains the litigation over the estate. Ambrose Bierce
Human Nature is often the greatest deterrent to making a intelligent decision.
I think that god in creating man somewhat over esitmated his ability. Oscar Wilde
When the cat's away, chances are he's been run over. Michael Sanders
The two most common elements in the universe are hydrogen and stupidity. Harlan Ellison
Do I believe in the power of prayer? No. But logic tells us no-one can prove a negative.
Here's another bit from HE. Dream Corridor #5 refering to dead friends
If you have a moment, if your heart is big enough to spare a moment, give a nod and a smile for the good ones who spent their lives making great art and even entertainment. When they're gone, there's only one way to tell them you miss them... Send them a moment of kind thought right now. The beam will pick it up and carry it across the stars to them where they wait. I've been sending good wishes to the ones I miss all evening. Now it's Your turn. Think of the ones you miss, the ones you still love, and send... a sweet thought... in the beam...
That's what were doing jt sending a sweet thought in the beam.

WolfMistress Thu Apr 18 09:01:00 1996
JT - I made no claims one way or the other; I simply asked those who frequent this Page to think of HE in a positive light. Perhaps "prayer" was an inappropriate choice of word. At age 46, I think I know all things die; what happens after physical death is open to debate. I have my own beliefs on the matter, but as I stated in the comment that seems to have started all this: my beliefs are *my* business, not yours or anyone elses. What I have is an open mind; anything is possible until you can prove otherwise. When HE dies, I will mourn briefly (being Human), then I will rejoice in having lived during his lifetime, to have met him, to have seen and heard him, to have enjoyed the fruits of his talent. Period.

Your sarcastic cynicism is intriguing. When I don't like something someone has said, I ignore it. You haul out chapter and verse of quotations and vituperation to champion your own cause. Fine. I suppose you have that right. But I have another quotation for you: "Methinks thou dost protest too much."

Carl Rains (PontiX@aol.com) Wed Apr 17 22:02:46 1996
After placing my order and waiting a month, I finally called up Borderland Press regarding "The City on the Edge of Forever" only to be told that there will be no trade edition. "The author pulled it in November." Does anyone have any word?

Anne Corwin (wckf28c@prodigy.com) Wed Apr 17 20:06:38 1996
Hey all,
It's either morbidly ironic or mildly intriguing, or perhaps even completely insignificant that I recently wrote a letter to Harlan, and spent half the time going on and on and on about this weird phenomenon I've noticed in which everybody I like ends up dead before they even realize that I exist. (Consequently, after writing said letter, I realized that I didn't have a clue where to send it.) But he isn't dead. So perhaps the spell is broken.How about that. I practically freaked out after school today, anyway, though, when I heard about HE's little cardiac episode (that sounds so un-serious) and my brother looked at me funny, and said, "There's nothing I can do about it."

Anne Corwin Wed Apr 17 19:58:39 1996

keegan Wed Apr 17 18:57:40 1996
Balance, JT. D'ya ever hear of it? Yeah, you can dwell entirely in the womb of darkness, or you can allow yourself to be so blinded by light you lose touch with reality. There is room for both dark and light--dark truths mellow the light and light keeps the darkness from swallowing us in despair. But you're right, sometimes the darkness shows us more than that candle. Look, I'm not really trying to change your mind about anything. I respect your view. I'm just not as cynical as all that. At the same time, I don't think I'm hiding my head in the sand either. Whatever. Respond and refute if you'd like.

JT (jt_neville@agora.stanford.edu) Wed Apr 17 16:20:46 1996
We are not afraid to follow truth wherever it may lead, nor to tolerate any error so long as reason is left free to combat it.
--Thomas Jefferson

I'm sorry but my karma just ran over your dogma.

A great many people think they are thinking when they are merely rearranging their prejudices.
--William James

Madness takes its toll. Please have exact change.

Hmm, the FDA approved fake fat. Hmmm, some kooks at Harvard held a symposium on faith healing. Hmmm, some Nazis say the Holocaust never happened. Hell, facts schmacks. I'll take your word on it.

Even the death of friends will inspire us as much as their lives.
--H. D. Thoreau

No one escapes from life alive.
--A Kikuyu saying

Even the best of friends can not attend each other's funerals.
--Kehlog Albran

An ordinary genius is a fellow that you and I would be just as good as, if only we were many times better... It is different with tthe magicians, even after we understand what they have done, the process by which they have done it is completely dark.
--Mark Kac (with special thanks to MK)

Once at a social gathering, Gladstone said to Disreali, "I predict Sir, that you will die by hanging or some vile disease." Disreali replied, "That all depends, sir, upon whether I embrace your principles or your mistress."

Oh yes and that candle. For me the darkness in truth is as bright as the noon day sun, and the light cast from candles often as dark as a new moon eve.

James C. Hess Wed Apr 17 13:41:18 1996
Hey all. Geez-us. A heart attack. After I heard that something occurred to me: 15 April was Tax Day. 16 April HE had a heart attack. See? This is what comes of paying taxes. (Not that I didn't pay my taxes, I did. But...come next year I'm going to be real careful around that time.)

Sue Luesse (jaluesse@htonline.com) Wed Apr 17 13:38:12 1996
How very sad. HE explored the mysteries of the human condition with a dedication to peeking under every rock, in every locked closet. I don't seem to recall any possibility being rejected out of hand simply because it couldn't be proven yet.

The effects of 'faith', meditation, and hope are well documented in the medical community. Harvard Medical School hosted the first conference dedicated exclusively to this phenomenon last month. It was well attended. The NIH currently gives partial funding to several pilot programs for the treatment of Heart Disease using holistic support. Did you happen to catch the segment on the Florida Project aired by Dateline last night? It is not a question of what is chosen as personal opinion. It is about possibilities. Think of the crazyness Jules Vernes wrote. Think again.

Whether it is a message to our Cosmic Significant Other. an aura sent directly to HE, or the missing link in quantum reality, or a written word that gives from one life to another shouldn't matter. HE gave to us all. Seems shabby to fail to return it.

I personally don't care if my support gets to HE by parcel post, or gets lost in cosmic transit. The important part is that I tried to return a little bit of what I received.

Jason Wed Apr 17 13:07:21 1996
jt, if it makes people feel better at a time like this then let them pray. It's not like anyone going to be stupid enough to say that HE's okay because they prayed for him. And whatever they think, they aren't going to tell him, he was saved by the grace of god. When I heard the news I prayed to Harlan, telling him that I thought his work wasn't done yet. Is that selfish of me, probably, I didn't want to look at a HEless world. Just remember it's better to light a candle then curse the darkness.
Jason

Rick Wed Apr 17 11:40:03 1996
Just a brief word of thanks for all the comments that are pouring in on the "Get Well" page. I will probably call tomorrow to check on HE's condition and will put an update here and on the news page...

Rick (again) Tue Apr 16 20:08:04 1996
The Get Well Comments board is operational - click on the "Home" or "New" reference at the top or bottom of this page to get to a link to it...

Rick Wyatt (webmaster@harlanellison.com) Tue Apr 16 19:17:15 1996
HARLAN'S HEART ATTACK:

I spoke to Susan Ellison today and she confirmed that Harlan had a quadruple-bypass operation Sunday afternoon, April 14th, at Cedar-Sinai hospital. He is still in intensive care as of this afternoon but is recovering well. As they said on the Babylon 5 site, please don't call the hospital! Everything seems to be going fine - there is no definite word yet but Susan thinks he had a heart attack Friday night. She took him to the hospital and he had the surgery Sunday - he is expected home soon, possibly as early as next Saturday. The only stop on Harlan's west coast book tour cancelled so far is the May 4th date.

I am setting up a comments board for you to place your get-well wishes for Harlan and will print it out when he gets home and fax it to him. Please check here on on the news page for more information as I get it, and thank you for the kind words.

keegan Tue Apr 16 19:07:47 1996
jt
we all deal with the Shit in different ways. You choose for you; others for themselves. But for the record, the study Wolfmistress referred to actually does exist. I'm not saying it's the truth (hell, the research could have been funded by the 700 Club or some such. One study does not the Absolute Truth make).

Anyway-whatever. Nobody's preaching (you included-I take your words of non-flaming at face). We are, none of us, pleased with HE's misfortune. Some choose to snarl and others choose to sing. Deal with it however ya must, that's my motto. Humans use science to rage against Nature, but when Nature gets us (as the phenomenon of death proves will ultimately happen), it leaves us simply raging. Turning the rage to art (and I'm using that term in an EXTREMELY broad fashion to encompass ANY constructive endeavour) it helps reset the balance. When a friend is in the hands of the doctors and they've done all they can, then it's a game of wait and see. That's the time for some modicum of faith--not necessarily in any kind of external Force, but at least faith that your friend is strong enough to kick the butt of whatever's ailing them.

I agree with you though. You gotta stay firmly grounded in reality. Rick-are you in touch with anyone or are you as clueless as the rest of us?

JT (jt_neville@agora.stanford.edu) Tue Apr 16 18:13:46 1996
Hello? Documented power in prayer? Let's stay inbounds and leave the UFO abduction/guardian angel/god stuff in the realm of the writer's of X-Files.

Every one/thing dies: you, me, your best friend, mentors, strangers, seven year old girls, the universe, everything. Stay in the rational world. You want to spew that happy go lucky 'we live in Eden' crap go hang out on the Friends Zone or better yet just keep it to yourself. Mourn, celebrate, grieve and enjoy life in private. I have no inclination or masochistic tendencies to be subjected to lackadaisical and erronious wishful thinking. It weakens the mind and spirit. It shirks responsibilty. It flies in the face courage and honor.

It __will__ be a dark day when HE walks into Lonely Lands, but it will come regardless of all the useless, new age, luddite mewling from the denizens of the Kingdom of the Blind. Life ends as we know it. That's a fact. Whether it's bad, good or indifferent is not for us to know or understand. Tell me the sound of one ahnd clapping. We can't know, that's the gist of Heisenberg's hypothesis with the cat and the box. So don't bring that cloud and shadow to my door. I live in the future; not the past and care not to help you carry your self shouldered burden. Worry, grief, regret are all benefitless emotions and none of us is any the richer for entertaining them. Take joy in what works have been wrought in our time on this earth and let Harlan and the others whose time it is to go, do so with honor. Respect the dying. They deserve their rest and tt is their just dessert. It is selfish to wish them to carry on for our petty feeling once their tour of duty is complete.

This isn't a flame, but I can't digest the shifting of responsibility from the individual to some ineffable superbeing that is inherent in our wishes, prayer and religeons. We choose: not god, not the great bird of the galaxy, not gaia. One way or another, in the end it is on our heads. It's my opinion and you don't have to like it.

keegan Tue Apr 16 17:11:57 1996
Amen, WolfMistress. Still holding that good thought and prayer. Get well, Harlan!

Mark Stackpole (Mark_Stackpole@oclc.org) Tue Apr 16 16:38:29 1996
Latest news I have from the B5 staff is that HE is currently recovering from surgery & doing fine.
I want to remind everyone about HE's feeling towards Hallmark and request that you do NOT send in any "Get Well Soon" cards.

WolfMistress Tue Apr 16 16:02:10 1996
To all of us who have spent the better part of our lives marvelling at the wonder that is Harlan Ellison -- please consider:

I make no claims for an Deity or Supernatural Force; my own belief system is my business and I will not inflict it on anyone else unless requested to do so. However, even medical science has grudgingly, but definitely, proven that there is *some* kind of Power in prayer. They have done exhaustive studies with *heart patients*, and the results have been published in the Journal of the American Medical Association. There is energy in prayer; there is power in prayer. Let's all use it for Harlan's clean recovery from this latest assault.

No doubt the Enemies of Ellison are rejoicing and wishing for the worst; it is up to us to combat that negativity. Standard or formalized "prayers" as such are not necessary unless they are part of your own belief system. Just focus on HE and *believe* he will live and be well.

I'm sitting here at work with tears in my eyes and I couldn't tell you why other than perhaps we shall all be diminished if we lose him. Please - let's send him all the goodness we have in us. It's the least we can do for what he has given for so long. Thanks all.

Mark Stackpole (Mark_Stackpole@oclc.org) Tue Apr 16 15:48:19 1996
Re: HE Heart attack
It's true. George RR Martin posted a message on GEnie saying the HE had a serious heart attack and underwent quadrupal bypass surgery. I have no further information; the message did say which hospital HE was at, but I didn't note the information.
Mark Stackpole

Mark Stackpole (Mark_Stackpole@oclc.org) Tue Apr 16 15:48:08 1996
Re: HE Heart attack
It's true. George RR Martin posted a message on GEnie saying the HE had a serious heart attack and underwent quadrupal bypass surgery. I have no further information; the message did say which hospital HE was at, but I didn't note the information.
Mark Stackpole

keegan again Tue Apr 16 15:30:23 1996
Lurker's guide to Babylon 5 is here: http://www.hyperion.com/lurk/lurker.htm

No new details yet.

keegan Tue Apr 16 15:07:17 1996
How very odd! I was going to report that, indeed, the Lurker's Guide to Bab 5 said "Harlan Ellison has had a heart attack. More details as they become available." I forgot to copy the URL, and my Go menu had lost the damn thing. I went back to the place where I'd linked to the Lurker's Guide before and -lo and behold- the link was no longer there. So I don't know anything (nothing new, right?) but I am hoping (and yes, praying) that nothing serious is afoot.

The URL for the place where I linked to Lurker's is http://pathfinder.com/@@ojlCsJNJ8wEAQP65/Babylon5/space.htm If someone knows the actual link, please post it. In the meantime, everyone petition your deities or at least direct a good thought toward the Ellisons. It can't hurt.

Oh, how I hope this is just another case of the Net's notoriously innacurate information.

Jim Ferguson (ferguson@ncsa.uiuc.edu) Tue Apr 16 14:21:33 1996
The Babylon 5 Lurker's Guide has a "newsflash" on the first page that says HE has had a heart attack. Anyobdy confirm this, or have more information?

Susanne Luesse (jaluesse@htonline.com) Tue Apr 16 12:48:17 1996
Wolfmistress - Thank you for the reassurance. I was beginning to think age anathema to the net, along with with most of what I personally consider requirements of communication. In fact, I was beginning to think there were only three S-F addicts left in the world, who had not long since been converted to "fans" - you know, the new religion of collectibles and minutae.

HE has no reason to suspect I exist. I read what I run across, and absorb what he sends through the written word of worlds only he truly knows. The truth which underlies the concepts become part of my world. I know bits of HE well, those pieces he tore from his life to feed me. I am very grateful for those who can share themselves through their art. It makes my life so much richer, fuller, and more interesting.

It is a mystery, and miracle, in itself that someone I have never met could be close to me. It is a great joy in life, the connectedness of human spirit, transcending time and space, even death, to continue relationship where none should seem to be.

Kudos to all, who have posted here. How delightful to find discussion, and exploration of the beneficial potential of this new media. I'm sure I shall tune in regularly.

For those who need labels - sorry, I'm very nearsighted. For those who just HAVE to peek, be my guest. Ask, and ye shall find out. I am somewhere between ancient and "Oh MY GOD!", fitting into the Sci-Fi timeline from Alfred Bester to present. I haven't conceded time any more than pain-in-the-butt aches and pains. My main means of transportation is my Virago motorcycle (don't own a car), and I live in Michigan. This may seem out of place on a HE Board --**but WAIT**-- I bought my first HE novel BeCause the author pictured on the back of the dustcover was wearing a black leather biker jacket. At that time, it still had symbolic meaning beyond my Daddy makes a lot of money. I wonder if he still rides? It is inconceivable that he only for the jacket for the symbolism.

Sorry to be so long-winded. It's the down side of bibliophilia. Try high - fly straight - drive safe.

Jeremy Lassen (Jlassen@mindcrime.ax.com) Mon Apr 15 23:26:51 1996
I consider myself a well read, intelligent person. But I am still trying
to figure out HE's "Chatting With Anubis", from _Dante's Disciple's_.
It has recently been nominated for a stoker award, so I figure SOMEONE
must have figured this story out. I have my idea's, but I don't think they are that accurate. :) My fiance, who is also an English Major (tm) has no idea's, but she has given up trying to figure out HE since I gave her "The Beast that Shouted Love at the Heart of the world", A story
which I do have many ideas about, and I think they are fairly valid.

Anyway, if anybody has read "Chatting with Anubis" and wants to trade
comments, e-mail me, or post here...

WolfMistress Mon Apr 15 17:24:01 1996
Totally apropos of nothing, does anyone know if HE has ever given his opinion of Bill Gates? Made any comments about him? Has had anything to say about the Microsoft Empire (that will one day own everyone of us, if we let it!)??? Just curious after re-reading "Gutenberg In a Flying Saucer".

Admittedly, I haven't kept up with Harlon's commentary here and there in the last few years, what with moving to the Midwest and other sundry aggravations of a personal nature. I buy his books and read them; as for seeking out every jot and tittle written by and/or about him, I have never done that and never will. It strictly depends on how I feel at the time whenever I may see a magazine or something saying it has an interview with HE or even an article *by* HE (although 9 times out of 10 if it's something *by* HE, I'll buy it, if I have enough money and/or a credit card on me at the time). So in that regard, I may not be as up-to-date as all the rest of you, Rick included. I enjoy the Work. I enjoy watching the fruits of that incredible mind unfolding across the pages. Why he does it or what people think of him doing it is usually totally irrelevant to what I *personally* get from it. Therefore, I may not know about articles, etc., that HE has done recently. Back when the old SF Review was going strong (20-plus years ago), HE was a regular contributor in letters and commentary, and since I had subscribed to SF Review since before the Flood, I was more or less current. Times change, publications go out of business, people pass away. The only thing that hasn't changed is Harlan Ellison. He is the same now as he was 20-plus years ago -- assaulting the Heavens, and penning his lessons to us in his own blood. Shhh. Be very quiet some night when reading a story of his; be very, very still. You will hear the scratch of the carefully-shaped quill-point on the paper, the soft whisper of words taking flight through the night...

This is the Harlan Ellison I know, even though I have met the man, have spoken to him on 2 occasions, and have called him on 1 occasion. The Work, like the Cheese, stands alone. So please forgive me for maybe asking questions that the rest of you may have known the answers to ages ago. You have stoked my interest to greater heights than it has known for a long time. Please bear with me. Thanks.

WolfMistress

WolfMistress Mon Apr 15 15:54:32 1996
Greetings, One & All, Old & New....

Amazing -- the responses a simple mention of something can bring...I could beat the psychological reasons for it to death for days on end, but, like one of the Beatles best efforts, "Let It Be". By way of clarification, not justification, I refer to myself as a "Baby Boomer" not as a label (I personally abhor labels, being the product of an interracial marriage), as a significator -- signifying my age group and therefore, some grounding information for what may be considered "old-fashioned" thinking by today's standards, to wit: what they call a form of "child abuse" today was known as "discipline" in my time. Thus, I use "baby boomer" as an identifier, and nothing more. Never mind that, tho. It'll just start another hash - defeating the true purpose of this Board, which is the enjoyment of and commiseration about the Great HE! How many of you Web Slingers (apologies to Spiderman), saw Bab 5 episode, "Ceremonies of Light and Darkness" and heard the inimitable HE's voice as that of the computer's AI program??? (it just aired in my area last night!) Comments? What did you think? Personally, I loved it. Missed taping it, however, since my VCR came over on the Mayflower, and it works when it gets ready. It'll Playback just fine, but it tapes with any dependability only when the moon is between phases or something. Wacked out machine. Comment/Opinions on that segment would be appreciated.

Aside to Keegan -- you are a very interesting young person. And in light of your comments, consider this: According to Scripture, God said, "Let us make Man in our Image." You said you needed faith in God, but wondered if what you *really* needed was faith in Humanity. Aren't they One and The Same?? I don't necessarily mean the standard Judeo-Christian, Western civilization concept of "God" as a beared old man sitting on a throne surrounded by angels, etc. I mean the Creative Force of Everything, Universes, realities, timelines, all that is. If everything sprang from this one Source, then faith in "God" means "faith in Yourself". Just some food for thought, as it were. No preaching, just a statement of logic. Take care, all!

WolfMistress

Sue Luesse (jaluesse@htonline.com) Sun Apr 14 17:48:19 1996
Browsing my way through the Net, kind of like cows do fields of plenty. Feels a lot like shopping the discount malls - plenty of good stuff, hidden under piles of...the rest of the stuff.
I love language, the oral and written words of human experience with the magical ability to affirm reality, and convey the many mysteries, wonders, insights, and wisdom of the universe within each human soul.
I grieve the demise of 'snail-mail', with it's intimacy and honesty guaranteed in a fold of paper, words to touch as gently as they touch, a bit of life captured on paper that outlives the lives which birthed it, with the power to transport all who read to an eternal moment. I wait to see the e-mail, B-Board equivalent.
Language seems so disposable. A quick wit, snappy response where I hope to see a thoughtful irony, or considered insight.
Seems I consign myself to go the way of all things not New and Improved. Isn't there a degree of hypocracy in aspiring to literature and failing to promote it personally? Isn't the best audience one which can appreciate the nuance?
I suppose, having assured myself that I lack the abilities of a writer like Harlan Ellison, I am content to stand in awe. Nothing like trying it for yourself to teach just how intricate, and difficult the achievement.
To all the authors-in-waiting, my best wishes and support. Keep at it. To Harlan Ellison, Godspeed and love.

Paul Was (pivo19@pivo19.rabbit.net) Sun Apr 14 02:23:05 1996
I'm 19, male, and the closest thing to a Slacker you'll probably get. I don't have a 9 to 5 job, and I sit around the house all day, when I'm not writing. I'm a freelance journalist, and I do some other work on the side. That's all I really have to say. I hate the Generation X name. I call my generation the Cynical Generation.

Paul Was (pivo19@pivo19.rabbit.net) Sun Apr 14 00:09:20 1996
I have a need to know which stories are going to be in Slippage. I wasn't sure whether I should put this on the wanted page, but then I decided, nah, the comments page sounds good. I've been buying a ton of enormous books, just because they have a single Harlan Ellison story. The stories I refer to are, Sensible City, Jane Doe Something, Scartaris, June 28th, and a couple of others that I can't recall the name of right now. I need to know this, becuase I have found some other stories, that are in various books, The Ultimate books, ie, the Ultimate Werewolf, Dragon, Zombie. If anyone has any info on the stories, E-mail me, please.

keegan Sat Apr 13 12:31:19 1996
oooooh, Wyatt! You are SO cutting edge! :)

Rick Wyatt (webmaster@harlanellison.com) Sat Apr 13 11:37:41 1996
Okay, gang - I've added a skippy new search engine to Webderland. Go to the home page and check it out! It will even search the comments and comments archive so you can find out what day you said that embarassing thing...

Also, we have now found all but the 1st, 3rd, 5th, and 7th editions of the SFBC Dangerous Visions...check out the news page for more info on the editions. Thanks for all the help!

Anakin O'Hara Fri Apr 12 14:59:57 1996
Keegan, hey, I also happen to be a bitch, because sometimes
I'm sick and tired of being miss goody-two shoes all the time.
When I read Harlan's work, it's cool. I love the comic adaption of
How's the Night Life on Cissalda? The guy who drew was really funny,
and I like how they updated it, those cool "Disgusting Things" attacking
all those loud-mouthed sissies, who do stupid things for attention, like
Madonna, Michael Jackson, Roseanne, William Shatner, too bad he did'nt
show a disgusting thing dighting with Chuck or Di, but what do you call
Camilla Parker Bowles, Cindy Crawford? Ciao, Anakin (-o-)

ittycar@aol.com Fri Apr 12 02:57:08 1996
I used to go with a guy who had an autographed book of Harlan's. He let me touch it (the book) once, but wouldn't let me borrow it. I have read all of Ellison's stuff. And I have been married for five years. But I still think about this guy... he was something.

Ben Steed (bsteed.telis@www.telis) Fri Apr 12 00:40:34 1996
Is Harlan going to make an appearanceat WorldCon in August?

keegan Thu Apr 11 21:16:31 1996
I thought about this: Labels are so convenient a way to describe Others, but we rarely appreciate it when someone tries to pin one on us. It's all western-european classification and rhetorical namecalling.

My basic theory of humanity is this (See, James? I have a few, too. Theories, that is): Throughout the history of humankind, some people are cool and some people are jerks (usually I use the gutteral term for a most disgusting bodily orifice common to all sexes, but I want to maintain a bit of Appollonian decorum here). Anyway, some people are cool and some people are jerks and most of us have been a little bit of both. I admit it. I am capable of being the biggest bitch next to Mother Nature herself. I try not to go there because that way lies insanity. I'm learning to cool out and not always jump into action just because it's my way or no way.

Faith in God was important to me a couple of days ago, but maybe the real question is do I have any faith in Humanity? And if I don't have any faith, then that means I'm part of the problem (being human and all). I'm not the whole problem, but I bear some burden. I think choosing to be responsible and caring (being cool) is a choice just like choosing to manipulate and exploit (being a jerk) is a choice.

I think a guy like Harlan is cool because he chooses to be responsible and caring. He does that, very often by biting us with the shark-toothed maw of his work. The guy who stirs things up, the guy who sounds reveille and rouses you from slumber to face a day of battle, that guy who kicks your ass and snarls, "Get going, you puscillanimous ooze of lard-laden pig phlegm. Do something meaningful!"--THAT guy. That guy is not all gentleness and soothing platitudes of peace. That guy's JOB is to be a pain in your ass. Sometimes, you gotta be cruel to be kind. But it had better be important or you could be dangerously close to being a jerk. In fact, some people mistake you for a jerk, even if you're dead-on Right. Just ask Harlan. I'll bet he knows.

Dutton's Books (duttons@loop.com) Thu Apr 11 13:35:26 1996
Mr. Ellison will appear for a book signing at Dutton's Books, 5146 Laurel Canyon Blvd. at the corner of Magnolia, in North Hollywood. Date: Saturday, June 1, 1996, from 2 pm to 4 pm. We'd love to see you!

Anakin O'Hara Thu Apr 11 13:10:37 1996
This may sound silly, but I just consider myself as human, who likes comic books and wants to be
a Science Fiction Writer.

Jason Thu Apr 11 11:58:06 1996
I wouldn't be too sure of that Wolfmistress, the people on this page read HE which shows they have a fairly high intelligence, and obvious good taste. We are not by any means an accurate sample of our respective generations. I ride the bus to university, and out of curiosity I listen to the conversations around me. They are so completely void of a minuscule glimmer of intelligence, compassion, or originality. It's scary! :-O HE wrote, an article for the Hornbook called 'Why I fantasize about using an AK-47 on teenagers' I think he was too easy on them. Personally I'm in favour of tatical nuclear weapons. Now I'm just ranting. so I'll cut this off. Maybe I'll be in abetter mood next time. Jason P.S. excuse any spelling or grammatical errors.

WolfMistress Thu Apr 11 09:26:32 1996
Jim -- consider the hatchet buried. However, my mind isn't always in the gutter; sometimes it comes out to feed.... ;-) Your point is well-taken. But I personally did not F*** up the environment and have no respect for those who did and continue to. I grew up on a working farm with a healthy respect for nature and all it's creatures, especially Humans! Be that as it may, let's leave it be, as you say, because it really isn't pertinent to the intent of this board anyway! As for the Intro to The Glass Teat, it's been years since I read it, but I am quite aware of HE's opinions on the subject of TV and it's offerings. I even called him once, about 20 years ago or more to tell him I wholeheartedly agreed with his stand that was raging in the old SF Review at the time. I didn't want to mention having once actually *spoken* to HE (other than at a convention), because I didn't want to beat my own drum. But I did, and he was very gracious during our brief conversation.

Anyway, Jim, Thank you for sort of setting the Old Girl straight here. I will consider my judgements a little more carefully from now on. Maybe our society isn't so hopeless after all if there are people like you in it! Take care.

WolfMistress

Rick (webmaster@harlanellison.com) Thu Apr 11 09:16:12 1996
James, I couldn't agree more. I don't consider myself a Gen Xer any more than my parents consider themselves Baby Boomers. I'm not much for being squeezed into a box by the current in-vogue label. I mean, people used to call me a yuppie because I had a nice care and stereo and stuff (and okay, I admit it, I wear Dockers). Sheesh...

BTW, with the help of Webderland folks I have located editions 4,6,8, and 9 of the SFBC Dangerous Visions. Not too dusty (only five to go!) and thanks for the help!

James C. Hess (James.Hess@Colorado.EDU) Wed Apr 10 18:29:52 1996
Hey all.

Well...after reviewing my remarks and remarks to Wolfmistress's remarks, let me make a suggestion: Let's bury the hatchet. (No, silly. Not *there*. Get your mind out of the gutter already.)

Here's the deal: I don't consider myself a yuppie, yippie, boomer, slacker, GenXer, or anything. I am me. And I see people as people. I just get really yanked when somebody comes along and starts posturing and pontificating in my general direction and telling me I am so ungrateful and so blah, blah, blah because *their* generation did soooooo much for mine. Listen up: Simply, thank you. I can't say it any plainer than that. Y'all did a lot for me. And I appreciate it. Really, I do. But I don't appreciate and won't tolerate you blaming me or holding me responsible for something somebody in another generation did. You F***ed the environment, you clean it up. I make a mess, I clean it up. Okay?

Anyway, for what it's worth, I was not at any time a financial burden on dear ol' Mum and Dad. I worked my way through college and never took a red cent from them. So...nanny-nanny, boo-boo to that notion.

Also, I was just suggesting a theory. HE does say in one of the introductions to THE GLASS TEAT that television is not just television, that it is a multi-faceted thing. Really. Check it out. And if you can't find a copy of said tome, lob a cyber brick in my direction. I keep coming across copies of the darn thing.

Now, having hissed and spit, and pissed and moan, and whined and howl, I have to go. Things to do.

Okay? O.....tay.

Jim

cj Wed Apr 10 13:07:24 1996
Imagine my surprise, shock and (yes, horror) when the credits for Bab5 started rolling (how long now? time is no longer linear here) and seeing the name of Harlan Ellison. "Ellison?!! I thought he was dead!! Conceptual Consultant? Faugh." Having worked as an assistant for consultants in recent past, my opinion of them is quite a bit less than flattering -- I believe that "pond scum" is the kindest term that comes to mind... But, hey, Harlan's alive -- quelle suprise! He used to scare the mortifying bejasus out of me way back in his "Deathbird" days -- but then I was younger...

WolfMistress Wed Apr 10 09:04:31 1996
Apologies for bombed-out sentence structure & any misspellings below. I get very intense when I write, and since I type faster than this thing can sometime keep up with, I sometimes lose part of my sentence between the brain, the fingers, and the keyboard! Sorry!

WolfMistress Wed Apr 10 08:52:53 1996
Hope everyone had a wonderful & peaceful holiday, if you celebrated it at all. If not, hope you had a wonderful & peaceful weekend.

I am somewhat taken aback by the response to my comments about FRIENDS & "Gen X". I apologize to one and all if you thought my comments inappropriate or too strong. I suppose I did fly off a bit. I had been a nasty week: major network upgrades at work and 4 trips to the doctor who basically told me what I already knew about the deteriorating condition of my spine! This is by no means an excuse; it is an explanation of some of the things contributing to what was (and is) a really bitchy mood! What pushed my buttons was Jim Hess' mention of "Generation X" in the remarks about HE liking FRIENDS. For what seemed at the time to be obvious reasons, the mere mention of "Gen X" sets a majority of *my* generation right into an HE-type snit!! However, in light of the responses from Mr. Hess and Anakin, I'm beginning to wonder if I have all the facts of the matter. I have read more than enough commentary about how my generation's children, the best fed, best clothed, best educated, spoiled-rotten generation in the history of America complaining and whining about how *WE* didn't leave anything for *THEM*! My response is always the same -- Excuse you?!? Who the hell left anything for *US*?? We've worked our butts off to give our children the best of everything and this isn't good enough?!? And so on and so on.... Now, though, maybe all those articles and commentaries where telling only one side of the story. I am open-minded enough to amend my thinking that the majority of our current crop of twenty-somethings are *NOT* Slackers, etc. Comments appreciated.

Yo, Rick -- did you find out what Dangerous Visions editions HE wanted?? Thanks all!

Anakin O'Hara Tue Apr 9 13:58:50 1996
Don't worry, it's me, the real Anakin. Age 23, height 5ft 4, weight, 100 lbs.
red gold hair, green eyes, vegitarian, likes Harlan Ellison and Star Wars.
Ciao, Anakin.

Anakin O'Hara, Jedi Goddess Mon Apr 8 14:18:50 1996
At last, I got someone's attention here! Jim, I hate the term Generation X and Slacker, as much as I
hate the Brady Bunch. Although, I'm not lazy, I'm a computer hack, who works in a local coffee shop,
likes to read comic books and Science Fiction, and Fantasy Novels, besides Star Wars books, which some are too blah,
except for Zahn's work. In Dream Corridor #5, Harlan should have mentioned the late Roger Zelazny, or did
Mr. Zelazny die after the release of D.C. #5? Because Harlan and Roger were very good friends were they?
Did Harlan and Steven King patch things up? Well go to go, Ciao, Anakin.

James C. Hess (James.Hess@Colorado.EDU) Sat Apr 6 21:56:26 1996
Wow! Whatta a response! And you may be onto something. Hello? Is this thing on? I said it was a theory. That means it may not be true. I'm just making a suggesting. And, if you will recall, I said I may be wrong and that HE may be yanking Rick's chain on this whole number.

As to what I think of __FREINDS__, well...I think it is overall a very condescending attempt to market to a group of people who are so individual that they can't be lumped together in a neat tidy pile and labeled.

And as for that label "Gen X" or "Slackers" who the F*** came up with that anyway? Douglas Copeland took credit for it, I know. But which whiny-ass pain in the butt came up with? I think it has to be among the most hateful and derogatory terms ever coined and if I every find the bastard that came up with and that themselves clever for it, I'm going to pound them flat, hurt them real bad, and then I'll make them watching a real bad sit-com. Like The Brady Bunch.

Okay?

Have a nice weekend, holiday, or whatever, everyone.

Jim

Anakin O'Hara, GEN13 Queen Sat Apr 6 15:17:58 1996
Speaking of religion, I am between Catholisim and Judaism, but I'm still a good person.
Yes, I like the show FRIENDS, and I am a member of Generation X, but over Generation X,
I prefer GEN13, the comic book by Image. I'm 23, if you want to know.

keegan Fri Apr 5 17:13:23 1996
I *believe* I'd better learn how to spell. I got it wrong more than once. Gee, I believe I am embarassed! I'd ask Rick to fix, but I don't know if he has the time. Sorry. I *am* uptight about that stuff. Must be because I was always the kid who came in second in the spelling bee.

keegan (keegan@lightlink.com) Fri Apr 5 17:08:22 1996
Hi all! Spring greetings all around. I'm still interested in some kind of organized post fest, but I have no time until after Easter. I'm singing my guts out in church and questioning what I really believe. I mean, do I really beleive in Christ like I think I do, or do I just find the Bible to be the most effective mythology for me to follow (being the one I was steeped in throughout my fundamentalist-Christian childhood)? Many of my good friends and other people I admire are atheists. Our difference of beleif doesn't necessarily make us diametrically opposed in all matters of importance. Some beleive. Some believe not.

Whatever. I will be spending the next three days singing loudly, ringing bells and finally, pounding on a drum while comparing the Resurrection to the green blade rising from the buried grain. It is a markedly pagan piece but I will direct it heavenward with all my might. If there's no God to hear it, or if there's a God and it could care less--so what? Certainly I will entertain and rattle a few complacent souls. Perhaps it will set souls free from their cages--maybe my own.

I hope nobody sees this as any kind of proselytizing. I'm just thinking out loud about what I gotta do and for some reason, I think the people who read this page (while not necessarily giving a shit about my personal metaphysical dilemmas) will understand what I'm trying to say and figure out. Perhaps the board isn't the place for a deep theological discussion, but if you have a thought, perhaps you'd drop a line.

So...are we gonna have a post frenzy? Who's in? Say, "Aye."

WolfMistress Fri Apr 5 16:33:11 1996
The Wishes of the Season to One and All! Happy Passover, Easter, or whatever your religion of choice. If you have no religion, that's OK, too. Have a great holiday, anyway!

And to you, Mr. Hess -- Bullpucky!!! In response to your "socio-babble" reasoning behind FRIENDS and HE's liking thereof. Having grad degrees in psych and philosophy with plenty of study (and life experience!) in socio-whatevers, I can tell you that FRIENDS is a good-to-exceptional comedy the handful of times I've seen it, but that's *all* it is! It's a higher form of the same sitcom drivvel that 'Three's Company' and that idiocy with Michael J. Fox was! It has no meaning! I will say of it what Shatner said of TREK, which I agree with: "It's a TV program, for God's sake!" And that's *all* it is! Why does this stuff have to have all these *hidden* messages and undercover morality plays somewhere within? And as for being a glimpse of Gen X -- bullpucky to that too. My son is a member of Gen X; he'll be 26 this year and he is a licensed professional in the medical field with a comfortable income, owns a house upstate with his companion, and drives a car 12 years younger than mine! This is called being a
raised to understand responsibility, and being given the necssary support to do whatever he wanted to do as a career. This is called giving one's children (child, in this case) a firm moral base from which to reach for their dreams. This is callled making sure your child feels self-secure and capable of handling whatever life is about. I am an only child and so is my son. We both had the same input -- my parents were near middle-aged when I came along, and my son's grandparents were still alive through most of his upbringing. (My Dad has since died.) He had a stable and solid homelife and a reasonably firm hand when it came to discipline. So I don't want to hear this "lost Generation" baloney! I'm a "baby boomer" and damned proud of it. My son, on the other hand, hates to be called a member of Gen X, because of all the negative connotations that label has taken on of late. I don't blame him. If the rest of them would get out and learn what it's like to have to make a living to make a home (in spite of divorce, medical problems, etc.), maybe they wouldn't have so much time to whine!
Anyway, Happy Holiday, Everyone! Roll those eggs, Rick! ;-)

James C. Hess (James.Hess@Colorado.EDU) Fri Apr 5 13:07:40 1996
Hey Rick...it's me! (And you thought the world was a better place? Heheheh)

Anyway....the reason I'm appearing here again is because you made a remark somewhere around here (which I *think* is still availabel for reading) about HE liking the show __FRIENDS__ and your disbelief at him liking it. If I may offer an opinion as to why, I will do so now.

I have this theory (oh, dear...there he goes again...with yet *another* theory certain to make HE mad again) about HE. I think that if HE had not bounced out of college and had not become the Writer he is, I think that he would have stayed in school, and gotten a degree or two in anthroplogy and sociology. Why do I think this? Because if you look at his books __THE GLASS TEAT__ and __THE OTHER GLASS TEAT__ and see them for what they really are, you will find they are *not* books on television but essays on the socioanthroplogical conditions of American society. As are most of his writings, fiction and non-fiction alike. HE is, I think, fascinated with humanity and that is, on a very basic level, what he writes about.

Now...how does this fit in with __FRIENDS__? Well, scrape away the sickly-sweet elements of the show, overlook the fact most of these characters never seem to work yet have massive places to live in, and sidestep the preachy superficiality of the episodes, and you will find that these characters, this show in their own odd way reflect that ever elusive thing called "Generation X". Nobody can define Gen X because there is no single characteristic which defines it. (Unlike, say, Yuppie S.O.B.s who tool about in SAUBS, who preach against hypocrisy, yet are among the biggest hypocrites ever.) __FREINDS__ is a socioanthropological examination of Gen X. They have concerns just like any other group. They have fears and concerns just like any other group. But because they don't have single characteristic that defines them they cannot be defined. And __FRIENDS__ allows for some type of definition of this group, making it socioanthroplogical. Which is why HE, the socioanthroplogist, likes it.

Of course, HE may just be yanking your chain and really doesn't like __FRIENDS__ and I'm a bigger fool than ever.

Until next time...

Jim

LA (lnichol@ksu.ksu.edu) Fri Apr 5 12:07:33 1996
Oh boy, this is my first time posting anywhere, so be patient and kind all right?
Browsing through my local paper this Friday morning I found a story about the release of the movie "A Boy and His Dog" on laser disc. The special edition features audio commentary by screenwriter/director L.Q. Jones, cinematographer John Morrill and film critic Charles Champlin.
According to the article, the best stories are from the director about the dog that played Blood. Tiger, the dog, was rescued from the pound when he was a puppy. You may also know him as the dog from the first season of the Brady Bunch. (So that's what happened to Tiger.)
The director also talks about auditions for the voice of Blood and how Jimmy Cagney was interested in the part but was turned down by the director because he didn't want the audience saying to itself "That's Jimmy Cagney doing the voice of the dog." Character actor Tim McIntire eventually got the part.

Many thanks to you Rick for keeping this page going. It's nice to get an Ellison fix when I need it.

Beth (witkowski.7@osu.edu) Fri Apr 5 07:49:06 1996
Wolfmistress (& Keegan):
Yes, I'm still here.
Thanks for bringing up the "Jeffty" anecdote. After finding where I had read it-- the Berkeley '83 "Shatterday" paperback-- I intend to re-read the whole book. Also, I found it interesting that the hosts of the cocktail party were Walter and Judy Koenig. And does anybody remember Jack Danon in anything?

Joey Walker (joey6@ux.netcom.com) Thu Apr 4 20:08:00 1996
If your a fan of Neil Gaiman's Sandman series(as HE is), something to look forward to this summer is Book of Dreams. This will be a collection of prose stories and HE will be bringing his unique touch to the dreaming. The book should be shipping to comic and bookstores in August.

Anakin Mara O'Hara, Force Goddess Thu Apr 4 18:15:49 1996
Lauri, that's not a bad idea. I'll still be coming here, even when they get the Netscape, here at the library.
Somebody please explain to me this Netscape thing, last week, I lost a comic book store, my friends who owned a
coffee shop in town, sold their business, it's still s coffee house, but with new owners, and the UCONN Lady Huskies
lost. I wish I could find those books for Harlan, but if I do see them, I'll inform you Rick.
Ciao, Anakin. ;-)

WolfMistress Thu Apr 4 16:35:53 1996
Congratulations, Mr. Harris! Also -- if I ramble too much, you folk will tell me, ok? I have a tendancy to ramble because I love to write and have done an extraordinary amount of it in my time. So if I am annoying anyone, please feel free to tell me to put a sock in it! (Remembering, of course, what my mystical name implies! ;-) )

Jack C. Harris Thu Apr 4 13:47:49 1996
Just jumping in to say 'Hi.' The last time I spoke to Harlan he told me the my comic adaptation of one of his 1950's short stories would be appearing in one of the early quarterly DREAM CORRIDOR comics. It's supposed to be drawn by Sam Kieth of MAXX fame. Here's hoping...In the meantime, if your local paper carries it, check out my TARZAN Sundau continuity draw by Gray Morrow and syndicated by United Features.

WolfMistress Thu Apr 4 11:14:26 1996
Crashes are our life's blood! Well, at least *part* of mine. Dealing with them is part of what I do for a living. I have one of those jobs that has no title nor an easy description. Basically, if it has to do with PCs & minis tied into a 144-site WAN, I do it. Crashes are the least of my worries some days!

Anyway, wanted to say that I *own* the Science Fiction Book Club editions of both Dangerous Visions & Again, Dangerous Visions. I think I read somewhere around this Page that HE wanted one or the other. The only trouble with that is that I am not sure if DV is the set I have 2 copies of. Half of my collection is packed up in my mother's house in Pennsylvania, and I'm in Wisconsin so dropping in to have a look-see isn't so easy. I know definitely that I bought DV when it first became available as a SFBC selection. A,DV took so long in coming, I think I forgot about it, then someone gave the set to me as a gift after I finally bought it myself. Anyway, I distinctly remember having 2 of each when I was packing up to move here, and separating stuff to be shipped to my Mom's place. (I was living in Northern Virginia at the time -- Yeah, I've moved around a lot!). If these are the ones HE wants, and I have them, I may consider it, I can't say just yet. I'd be happy to give them to HE, but I may also want to keep tthem as part of my collection. Keep us informed, Rick. And thanks for the speedy renewal of the service. You are appreciated.

Rick Wed Apr 3 22:17:25 1996
Sounds good to me - post away! The program should be immune to disk-space crashes now...I'm not sure what will happen if two people hit the "submit" button at the same time, though...

Anyway, I'm gonna have some info up Friday about the specific Dangerous Visions editions Harlan is looking for, as well as a request for sony betamax units. Stay tuned...

keegan Wed Apr 3 21:42:17 1996
I'm too dogged to be irked. Sorry.

Chat line? Here's an idea: Let's all "meet" here on the bboard at an appointed time and just post at each other. Sure, it's slow and sloppy, but think of it as an experiment to see just how fast we can get the board to crash. (NOTE: I'm kidding, Rick!)

MISS ANNE E CORWIN (WCKF28C@prodigy.com) Wed Apr 3 18:51:54 1996
Hopefully, you'll all be seeing my name in print sometime in the
next year or so. I'm an ambitious young writer-(translation:I am a
dork) and I'm using this space as a haven for my indescribable
passion for Mr. Ellison's snappy stuff, as well as for my rather
overconfident musings about myself. I actually have no self-esteem,
and tend to bore everyone with my endless chatter about myself, but I
have nothing else to do. I can't wow you all with witticisms or
creative interpretations of Harlan's work, but I can annoy the hell
out of each and every one of you. This is the only web site I've ever
visited. Sad, very sad. Please, somehow let me know if I have
succeeded in my quest to irk.

Anakin O'Hara, Supreme Goddess Wed Apr 3 18:48:28 1996
Rick, Kevin J. Andersen has written Darksaber, which is very BAD, the story is weak, the characters are horrible and this Callista chick sucks,
Miss Hambly made her up, I have nothing against Ol' Babs, but I'm not used to her writing. Well, at the local comic book store in my town, I have found
the comic book adaption to Demon With a Glass Hand and I must tell you, it is awesome. Well, tell Harlan and Sue I wish them a happy Passover.
Ciao, Anakin.

P.S. Ladies and gentlemen of this b-board, who's in support of a chat line?

Rick (webmaster@harlanellison.com) Wed Apr 3 17:23:55 1996
Okay, the comments board went down again. I found out some unix systems don't quite detect write failure the way I think. So I added new code to check the file sizes on completion.

We didn't lose many comments, just last nights, thanks to my vigilant backup policy. Apologies if you were one of the few hit.

keegan Tue Apr 2 14:26:03 1996
Hey Wolfmistress-
I read the story about the origins of "Jeffty" in the introduction found in _Dreams With Sharp Teeth-. You wanted to know and now you do!
As for Sci-fi Buzz, I'd love to tape it, but I can never figure out what time slot it's in from week to week. 10 pm EST on Fridays? Is that it? Guess maybe I ought to go buy a tv guide or something....

Mike Pflieger (Lemmy@unm.edu) Tue Apr 2 13:59:30 1996
A simple thank you to Mr. Ellison for his work - an inspiration for my own.

WolfMistress (rwhiteanderson@kraft.com) Tue Apr 2 13:38:01 1996
Greetings!

Ah,Keegan! Don't be so hard on yourself! Geez,it was a joke. ;-)! And you, Mr. Rick -- "Wolfie"??? As one who once commanded *hoards* of wolf-like,undead,shape-shifting henchmen who were very good at doing the bidding of a High Priestess/Necromancer, my advice is to be more careful in your mode of address! (God, did I really type all that??!!) Anyway, I'm glad I could make a contribution that some HE-Folk had not seen. I really cannot remember if he ever published the original introduction anywhere else. If anyone has seen it somewhere other than the original F&SF printing, please let me know. Also, since TCI Cable is such a public-hating member of the Great Corporate Conspiracy That is Destroying Civilization As We Know It, we who have no choice but to subscribe to get any cable *at all* do not get The Sci-Fi Channel!!! We have written, called, innundated them and deluged them with requests. Three years ago, they said we would get it as soon as their fiber-optic network was done. We're still waiting. Anyway, I would like to know if anyone is taping Sci-Fi Buzz! If so, I would be happy to buy copies of said tapes with HE is full living color to add to my current collection. I do not want (or need) all of them -- just a few to have an example of this portion of HE's career. If these are available, please write to my e-mail address with particulars. Until next time --

WolfMistress

Rick Tue Apr 2 12:45:49 1996
I may look into a chat line - Webderland only gets about 40-60 hits a day, so so far it hasn't been worth it. Odds are you are the only one here right now...

I am quite familiar with Hambly - what has Anderson written of note?

Jason Sat Mar 30 14:13:40 1996
So I'm not the only one, eh Rick? I enjoy the show's sarcasm and I enjoy it on the basis, that it's level of optimistic escapism it makes Star Trek look like the Whimper of Whipped Dogs. Oh by the way from someone one who mis-hears things frequently, it isn't always a good thing, because I often don't have a clue as to what was actually said, until it is repeated very slowly to my face, which makes me look somewhat stupid, but then that makes them underestimate me and I get my own back later on. (Help I'm starting to ramble!!)

Anakin Mara O'Hara Sat Mar 30 14:05:02 1996
Did anyone see Harlan last night on Sci Fi Buzz, he proved some points there.
Well, Connecticut's Lady Huskies lost, and Barbra Hambly is still president of SFFWA!
I think Babs bribed her way in, remember what Harlan said about the Nebula's and The Hugos,
I think it was Kevin J. Andersen and Barbra Hambly, that were bribing people for votes to get
those awards, I'm just saying this, because I can't stand both of them.
Is there anymore word on Slippage and how about an IRC Channel, so we can all get together and chat, or
Rick you can open a chat line hear, ask Kevin Nord, http://paul.spu.edu/~kevnord/starwars/
Maybe that's a bad idea, oh, well talk to you all later. Ciao, Anakin.

Rick Wyatt (webmaster@harlanellison.com) Fri Mar 29 22:56:28 1996
I have not heard that ahneckdoat, Wolfie - thanks! "Jefty" has always been one of my favorite stories, and the one that I think best shows Harlan's passion and occaisional childlike glee.

Me, I'm still getting over the shock of reading that HE likes to watch "Friends" (in the latest Details magazine). What's next, my dad calling to tell me how k-rad the new Toadies album is?

keegan Fri Mar 29 18:40:20 1996
No, Wolfmistress, I didn't think YOU were wrong. In fact, it occured to me when I read my post that I had spelled it differently and I assumed *I* was wrong. Sure enough, I was, but now I know better.

Yeah, I've heard that story before but it was worth the retell. I'm mulling your suggestion that perhaps the creative mind (Harlan's in particular) "purposely" mishears things to feed the Muse. Perhaps. Olivier Messaien (great 20th-century French composer) related that when he was held in a German stalag, he perceived musical sounds as colors-perhaps to offset the bleak shades of prison. I think that stuff happens to artists of all disciplines.

WolfMistress (rwhiteanderson@kraft.com) Fri Mar 29 17:22:41 1996
Greetings, All!

Ah,Keegan, did you think I had misspelled 'anecdote', perchance? O, ye of little faith! Anyway,this little bit of whimsy was HE's introduction to the story in F&SF. He probably published it elsewhere and I have forgotten; all of you may know about it already, in which case, I'm wasting everyone's time. But I have never forgotten it because it reveals a lot about how any good (great?) writer's brain works. It is the idiosyncrasies of life that sometimes reveals it's greatest treasures.

In the original introduction to "Jefty is Five" in F&SF, HE explained that he has a peculiar ability to 'mis-hear' things. We all can mis-read stuff or think we hear something said that wasn't in a vague sort of way, but HE explained that his 'mis-hearing' of things occurs on two levels: he very distinctly hears the "wrong" thing, while also distinctly understanding what he *should* have heard. The explanation goes on to state that he was at some long-forgotten cocktail party when he overheard a fragment of conversation. Someone had asked someone else about a mutual friend, and the reply was, "Jeff is fine. Jeff is *always* fine!" He knew that is what was said, but what he *heard* was: "Jeff is five. Jeff is *always* five!" HE goes on to relate how that surreal statement stuck in his mind and eventually took on a life all its own. That, dear readers, was the very first inkling of the painfully brilliant story we have come to know and love as "Jefty is Five".

If you've heard it before, my sincerest apologies. If not, think about the mind that perhaps, on some unconscious level, *purposefully* 'mis-hears' things, to give itself more food for its own creative fires.... Until next time,

WolfMistress

Anakin O'Hara Fri Mar 29 15:41:10 1996
Hello all! I have found a new place to use my chat line, it's call the Hard Drive Cafe and I will be going to the one in Bristol, CT, where I can get an E-Mail Account. Speaking
of HE and Space Cases, Markus Hamillitis and Billy Mumy will be doing guest appearances on that show, oh, the pain, the pain of it all.
Excuse me, I think I'm coming down with a case of Markus Hamillitis, when I get my E-Mail, I'll warn all of you, ok. Ciao, Anakin Mara O'Hara.

keegan Fri Mar 29 08:07:46 1996
Yo! I just found Webster's online and confirmed my fear that I spelled "anectdote" incorrectly. I apologize profusely (though I doubt it'll never happen again). I know y'all probably couldn't care less, but hey, whatever.... Hoping to hear that ANECDOTE soon, WolfMistress.

Jason Thu Mar 28 18:27:12 1996
I'm with keegan, I love to hear the tale. On a tangent, (make that a completely new line of thought,) Could someone stick a review of the show up here at some point, I can't get Nick, so I'm going to be left in the dark until some kind soul illuminates me at this location. Thanks

keegan Thu Mar 28 17:03:57 1996
Hey, Wolf Mistress! We hear ya! Don't go away! I'd love to hear your anectdote about HE and "Jeffty" (one of my all-time faves). Do tell, please, oh please!!!!!

WolfMistress (rwhiteanderson@kraft.com) Thu Mar 28 16:53:43 1996
So what's the deal?? Am I too old to be included in the discussions or what? The handle is from my D&D days in Grad School, and I am comfortable with it. I know a little anecdotal thing about HE and the story "Jeffty is Five", which I first read in The Magazine of Fantasy and Science Fiction, by the way -- way back when. I don't think it was Galaxy, because Galaxy (of which I have a monumental collection) was kaput! by then. If anyone is interested, drop a line and I will be glad to reinterate it here. If not, I'll disappear quietly into the cyber-night! I really admire the work Rick has done here...Ahhh, maybe that's it! None of you really exist, it's just Rick signing on from all over to make it *appear* as if all these different people are writing in! He's designed this killer program that can do this from any machine in the world -- a little PC Anywhere and there he goes....

Well, it's a thought. Hoping to hear from someone!

WolfMistress

Cordwainer Bird Thu Mar 28 14:03:47 1996
I agree with you keegan. There appears to be some Freudian urge in producers and directors to re-write thoughtful well written scripts. Welcome to Hol