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Rick Wyatt <webmaster@harlanellison.com>
I am aware of this board's importance as a gathering place for a mostly positive and eclectic community. I'm proud to have been a part of that.
However, the board has also become a source of stress and insult to Harlan. I am going to have to consider how I can support the community and still have a place Harlan can participate in without dealing with all the garrulousness and pit-fighting.
Until then, and at least through Easter, I'm suspending board posting. I have fought Harlan for a long, long time about keeping this place around but I finally agree with him - something needs to change.
The Art Deco pavilion will remain open until someone violates the spirit of that place, which probably won't take long. Your thoughts on what steps we can take next are welcome there or in e-mail.
To Alex Jay: Gospel's nice, but I can't quite get into it the same way I can "get into" blues. Gopspel blues, I can really dig: ever heard Blind Willie Johnson? And I love "Spirit in the Sky."
Thanks for the heads-up on Anne Frank fanfic. New dimensions of "ghastly" have now been charted.
Re Shatner: Okay, I know our host has had bad dealings with him in the past. But I like the guy-- at a distance. Probably wouldn't like him close-up. I like the fact that he's parlayed a moribund acting career into a mini-industry, and turned himself into a pretty decent comic actor. He has cultivated a familiar, funny, and affection-attracting something that can only be called his Shatner-ness, which is actually distinct from his rep as Captain kirk.
Its high point may have been on _Third Rock_, watching him at Lithgow working together, which may have been surpassed only by John Cleese's appearance on that show. But then there's Ed Norton's line in _Fight Club_: "Shatner. I'd fight William Shatner." (None of this means I'd buy his friggin' record album. I take him in the small doses afforded by random TV watching. Anything more than that, well, that'd be crazy.)
Oh, as for Passover, I attended a modest seder last night. Bitter herbs... yecch. Why couldn't they come up with, "And instead of bitter herbs, to remind us of our time in bondage, we will eat Peanut Chews and Fritos and Mallomars, so we can live well and say FUCK YOU to Pharoah, 'cause _that_ motherfucker's dust in the sand, and he ain't never gonna taste anything as good as a Mallomar."
Frolic Pizzicato, everyone.
The Anti-Christ is Eminem, who calls himself "Rabbit" in that fool movie. String HIM up. It allll makes sense now.... Then again, so does the "Kill Harlan Fans" statement. If I ever see one on the side of the road, I'll tell him to push off, along with the Raven, and The Buddha.
Jesus, bless me and keep me as far away from your followers as possible.
Froylika Pesach to those who celebrate Passover.
Happy Easter to those who celebrate the Mystery of the Resurrection.
Happy Vernal Holidays for those who don't share those particular faiths.
Bern
HARLAN,
Ditto.
Happy Passover to one and all.
Alex Jay - if Christ is the Rabbit, is Bugs Bunny the Antichrist?
Rob - I suspect that the lost minutes of "Lost Horizon" are out there, somewhere - film prints wind up in closets and collections in the four corners of the world every day. Back in '96, a former film projectionist coughed up a near-mint nitrate print of a 1912 silent feature film version of "Richard III" (now in the AFI archives at the Library of Congress). Hell, even copies of episodes of "Doctor Who" that the BBC wiped or otherwise lost have turned up in storage rooms in Australia, Nigeria and Crete (and in at least one case, a car boot sale in Buckinghamshire). I have to believe there's one complete original "Lost Horizon" print stacked in its cans, sitting somewhere in a storage closet, as lost as Shangri-la itself...
Alas, while I may still be a Finder in spirit (if not name), I ain't THAT good... [shuffles feet to kick print of Lon Chaney's "London After Midnight" under bed]
I'd wager there are collectors in the greater Los Angeles area who could fill in the blanks - Ronald Haver's book on the making of 1954's "A Star Is Born" and its restoration in 1983 gives some interesting insight into the Hollywood film collecting underground. They don't surrender their treasures easily.
?????? (Hell of a gap between Archival and Most Recent Postings: I was, and still am only going to respond to lonegungirl and the Shatner comments.)
I haven't enjoyed Shatner since he's put on this persona now that he was in on his... appeal... the whole time.
The last thing I liked him in was 3rd Rock, when, as The Big Giant Head he complained he hated flying on airplanes because the last time he was on one he kept seeing something on the wing.
Then Lithgow's jaw drops: "THE SAME THING HAPPENED TO ME!!!"
I'm watching his "hair" apparent, William Petersen, on CSI. Captain Kirk with a hearing problem. You can tell when he's 'motivated' to bring out the hearing problem, because he'll walk around with this "rain man" gait while he's overacting.
See, now I'm posting like an idiot. But Alex Jay's post really resonates with me. The other thing I neglected to mention is that one reason I think the Psalms work so well as blues is because the point of view of the Psalms is often in the first person. The psalmists express the pain and joy of life as well as the grandeur of G-d in very personal terms. King David has been a lifelong muse for me.
And yeah, improvisation, baby! Make it up as you go along!
"Sing God a simple song,
Laude, lauday (sp?)
Make it up as you go along
Laude, laudei (still doesn't look right)
Sing like you like to sing
God loves all simple things
For God is the simplest of all...." ("Simple Song" from Leonard Bernstein's MASS)
PS, Alex: Best wishes to you on your "mission from God"! I know the Blues Brothers would approve. Let's hope the Rabbi digs it, too! You could change Jewish musical history forever!
I bet the blues sounds cool in Hebrew!
Alex Jay: I have perceived the Psalms as Jewish Blues for several years now. In January, I organized a jazz eucharist for the Episcopal church at Cornell and set the Psalm as a minor blues with a built in antiphon for the people to sing along. It was completely natural and effective.
I know at least one atheist New York Jew who also loves Gospel music. He's a voracious music fan (I know him from jazz circles).
Have you ever seen SAY AMEN, SOMEBODY? I remember seeing it in high school at the art house and I remember overhearing someone say, "That stuff almost makes you want to believe."
RICK: ... unless the "it" to be "done" is the killing of the board, of course.
LYNN: It's funny. I practice Judaism a few holidays out of the year, know virtually all the prayers, and identify myself very strongly as being a Jew.
But I will admit to a deep fondness for gospel music.
(A quick plug--the blues-gospel band The Holmes Brothers are AMAZING. Listening to their songs [their most recent album was produced by Joan Osborne a big fan of both the blues and of gospel, by the by] will get me rocking and fanning myself and singing along. I'm pretty sure even the most ardent Jainist would get up and start stomping to the Jesus music they perform, heedless of any small living things which may be under his feet)
Maybe because of my love for the blues and for sweet soul, and an acknowledgment that gospel is a friving force behind those forms of music, but I do love me some deep soul-felt gospel.
And I set to thinking: Most of the hymns Jews chant in shul are, though five to fifteen hundred years old, just Hebrew or Aramaic versions of the call-and-response chants which could be heard on the cotton farms and sharecropped plantations of a hundred-odd years ago.
So I thought--why not Jewish gospel?
("Spirit in the Sky" by Norman Greenbaum doesn't count)
Hebrew has enough sibilants and drawn-out vowels to perfectly suit a blues vocal feel. And the racial memories of suffering and persecution are just as hard-wired for us as they were for descendants of the Delta life.
So I tried it out on my admittedly-somewhat-square parents tonight on our non-seder Pesach dinner. I did the Four Questions ("Why is this night different from all other nights ...?"--in Hebrew, Mah-neesh-tah-nah hah-lye-lah ha-zeh; mee-kole ha-lye-lot") to a mostly different tune as an a capella blues.
My mother blinked.
"You know ..." She groped for the words. "... that really sounded GOOD."
So I'm thinking. When I get called to the bimah ("dais"/"altar") for an aliyah (blessing) for my mother's upcoming adult Bat Mitzvah, the cantor knows I have a strong voice and may just ask me to do one of the prayers besides the simple Torah blessing I'll be doing with my sister. I'll ask him if I can do it my way--giving him a demonstration.
I just may succeed in bringing gospel blues to Yentaville ...
(Of course, if they ask me afterward what tune it was I was singing, I won't be able to say--I make stuff up as I go along.)
Jim D.,
"The truth? I'm so fucking disgusted with her transparent and PATHETIC attempt to humiliate Harlan"
Otherwise known as the Tautology of Folie.
BTW, Doug...
(Talk about delayed responses, following up your post about the missing MAG AMBERSONS)
Having seen your post only now...when you know where the lost bits from LOST HORIZON have gone...pul-EEEZE let us know. It would beat the shit out of bad stills plugged in with a soundtrack and I wouldn't have to grate on Harlan's nerves with my whining about it anymore (masterpieces must be whole in their visual poetry not mutilated by neglect!). Just call me the Ahab of archival dereliction.
How angry am I? I wrote the tautology "a cursory glance," that's how angry.
(Have a Happy Easter and a froylika Pesach, everyone.)
When I replied to Barney, I'd only given Diana's post a cursory glance.
Now I've read it. In full.
Rick, let me second Harlan's request. Do it--whatever "it" is--till it can't be done any more.
The truth? I'm so fucking disgusted with her transparent and PATHETIC attempt to humiliate Harlan, I'm seeing purple.
Harlan: your Easter regards make me willing to cop to being a Christian.
"Jesus is just alright with me, Jesus is just alright, oh yeah, Jesus is just alright with me, Jesus is just alright" Oooh, yeah! Great worship songs of the Doobies! Righteous!
I have become a C&E Christian at least where the Episcopalians are concerned. That's when their music is best. I find that I'm much more into Unitarian style of worship because they're not so hung up on what I believe as long as I'm doing something constructive with it.
Chuck: your milk-miracle made me LOL!!!
Miss my kids but had a great night out with the husband tonight. Syracuse is not such a bad little city. I want to write a song for it, but the 'Cuse Muse hasn't been clanging any bells....
Anne Frank fanfic?
Okay, *now* I've heard everything.
L.
I swears t'th'All Mighty, you just can't tell how a day is going to begin n'end in this place.
Harlan,
Well, before Rick DOES it...allow me to wish you and Susan a Happy Passover in return.
And if I need to cover my bases, happy Spike A Kike Day as well (LOL).
My Best, As Always.
Jay,
Like right on, maaaaan. I hear your pain. SULU SUCKS!
CINDY: I'm doing just fine, thanks. Busy, as usual. Sorry to hear your birthday was a rough patch in your week. Glad to see you're back in high spirits, though. And I'm happy that last year's roses are still making memories (I was going to send you a fresh batch, but I misplaced your address -- I'd fire my office manager, but after 43 years, I seem to have grown attached to him). Hey, let me know if there's another email I should contact you at; I was gonna send a note, so you have my address once you finish the "Willie Parmenter" story. Time to hit the hay. Happy Easter to you and yours, and Froeliche Pesach to all the "kosher" people on the board.
--DTS
AND TO EVERYONE ELSE:
A very contented and comfortable Easter wish from Susan and me.
Do not mistake my inability to pass up an opportunity to get off a sizzler, as even the faintest disrespect for Jesus of Nazareth
-- whom I consider a very cool role model, howsomever his philo-
sophy and person have been shanghied through the centuries by
satraps and sycophants, despots and demagogues, hustlers and hypocrites, censors and simpleminds.
Respectfully, Harlan
ALEX JAY: HA!
JIM: I've said it before, and I'll say it again:
"Good Jew ... Bad Jew ... I'm the Jew with the gun."
RICK:
Do it.
Harlan
XERN/BANADU: Yeah, I remembered that right after I hit the "Send" button. "Gee, not only does it offend my delicate gastric system, but it pisses off G_d, as well!" Honestly, though? At this late date, one cheeseburger won't make much of a difference in my relationship with the Unmoved Mover. I'm the quintessential Bad Jew, and I can't even recall the last time I kept kosher for more than a brief period.
BARNEY: Don't know if your last post was, strategically speaking, such a great move--expect to see the complete works of Shakespeare uploaded any minute now--but I admire its gutsiness.
Alex Jay: Oops -- not why the rabbit, but why Christ is the rabbit. Well, it's all because of the contract the Vatican signed with the Trix Corporation in 1912 involving the exchange of wafer production at cost for linkage between rabbits and the redeemer for the duration of the contract, which expires in 2012. I understand Pizza Hut has the inside track on the next deal, due to lingering Vatican doubts about the cultural sensitivity of Lucky the Leprechaun.
Cheers, Jon
Oh and on a lighter note:
Apparently, the Easter Bunny died for our sins in the shadow of Jesus, rose three days later distributing chocolatey goodness in the wake of the also-much-better-than-dead Jesus. He's kind of a booster.
Full moon tonight and the ghost of Holden Caulfield is loose again.
You know, I once went to a science fiction convention and stood a few feet from George "Sulu" Takei while he greeted convention officials and some hotel guests. I nervously introduced myself and thanked him for his work on "Trek" and in reparations for Japanese internment families as well as those really cool episodes of Ba Ba Black Sheep. He shook my hand warmly and thanked me. But he stopped there and turned away. I felt that smile and thanks was so fucking FAKE! Here I was, humble rodent in awe of this thespian's contribution to television and human rights and all he says is "THANKS?!" Not so much as a "I've been waiting for someone like you to say that." or "My life is now complete now that you've given me your gratitude." or "Say, want to come up to my room for some rum and marathon bouncy-bouncy?" That fake BASTARD! So I'll tell you here and now what I told him then: FUCK YOU SULU! FUCK YOU WITH AN ELECTRO-SHOCK DILDO!
So since I have all this extra time on my hands, I go to HelmstationHiraku.com and join in the conversation. I want that pint sized, pasty-faced hurtful pig bastard to know how much he means NOTHING to me. I will spend hundreds of hours insulting those who congregate to discuss things Sulu. I will take them down one at a time. I will PROVE no one cares LESS about this guy than me. They banned me when I freaked out once, so I had to PRETEND to these apostolic fakers that I was like them and kind and genuine...but FUCK SULU! There's one guy there who is so frigging fake. He is nice to everybody. He doesn't even want to stir things up...he's a FAKE just like that crappy SULU! SULU! You wanna know why your backstory was cut from Star Trek IV???? Cuz you're so FAKE! You wanna know why Howard Stern makes fun of you? Cuz you're a FAKER! I... (seven days are up and The Ring claims another victim).
Alex Jay: An explanation for the rabbit of Easter shows up in Neil Gaiman's _American Gods._ Easter, Astarte, rabbits, fertility. The Gaiman version is a lot more interesting than the preceding list fragment, by the way.
Cheers, Jon
Re Barney's comments on Diana.
When I see a post by Diana, I scroll past it.
I do not say this to chastise Barney, or anyone else, with the old "if you don't like it change the channel" argument.
I say it to Diana, because I want her to know that her posts are utterly worthless to me.
As far as I can tell, your only consistent character trait is a continual nurturing of anger over slights, both real and imagined. Beyond that, it's been an untrustworthy slurry.
Diana, I lost any interest in your opinions weeks ago.
Hang around if you want, post volumes over whatever you think has damaged your life, but I'm not going to read anything you write.
In response to Alex Berman, who asked: "Exactly what significance for the Virgin Birth, the Divine Conception, the Unsullied Pregnancy, does the fact that "the Rabbit died" have?"
Silly. It means it's time for an _abortion_.
Yours in Christ, Brian Siano
Oh, and by the way--one more confirmation that Harlan may well be right about the inherent worth of the Internet:
... Anne Frank fanfiction.
http://www.fanfiction.net/list.php?categoryid=1218
ALEX K.: Is it me, or does the expression "Petscans" sound like a voyeur film festival at a furry convention?
In all seriousness, AK, hang in there--and know that should you ever NEED to talk about any problems, you have a home-grown (okay, okay; lab-grown, most of us) support group.
SCOTT: I thought your hockey teams WERE your provincial legislatures ...
HARLAN, CINDY: "Happy" Passover indeed. Not only do I keep kosher these eight days (which I don't, the rest of the year), but there are other restrictions: No grains of any kind. No rice, wheat, malt, corn, soy, rye, barley, lentils; peanuts, beans, or other legumes; nor any derivatives thereof.
(With the sole exception of peanut oil--apparently, some centuries back in our travels, that's all the Jews as a race had, so the strictures were loosened for that one little thing)
But that's not such a big problem, really--I mean, it's noit as if you'll find corn syrup, corn or soybean oil, or hydrolyzed soy protein in much food ... except perhaps for DAMNED NEAR ***EVERY*** FLIPPIN' FOODSTUFF MADE BY OR FOR WESTERNERS!!!
Ahem. Thank you for the Good Yontiff wishes.
CINDY: "The only Christian?" Sorry. There are maybe four Jews around here, two or three atheists, and (possibly) a Muslim or two. The rest are all Christians.
(It always gets my dander up when people of a certain religious bent who make up ninety to ninety-five percent of a given country's population cry discrimination ...)
But yeah--Happy Spike-a-Kike, Spit-a-Yid, Bleed-a-Hebe Day.
A question, though: I admit to being a little perplexed about the whole (originally pagan?) symbology tied into this, the second-holiest of all Christian days. You know, Bonnets, bunnies, eggs--the whole schmeer.
(Say it with me, Hicks fans--"A goldfish left Lincoln Logs in me sock drawer!")
As far as I can tell, for Easter the Bunny replaced the Lamb as symbol of Jesus, the result of the Virgin Birth. So Christ is the Rabbit.
... Exactly what significance for the Virgin Birth, the Divine Conception, the Unsullied Pregnancy, does the fact that "the Rabbit died" have?
BEN: If you think about it, it's a commentary on our body-conscious age: Chocolate, dying for your sins, guilt. Chocolate, guilt, dieting for your sins.
TODD: Limas ain't Kasher L'Pesach.
And yes; I'm in Hell.
Yeah, c'mon, Diana...
That was pretty gratuitous and uncalled-for.
Instead of tossing boiling water in Harlan's face TALK to him about it. It's a lot more mature than coming on like THAT. Remember what we were talking about a ways back? About when the BLOOD boils?
Oh Chuck,
THANK YOU.
You are always so sweet. My birthday was rough but the next day bliss-- and I thank you for asking.
How was your sister's birthday? We seem to be about a year and a day apart. I hope all is well with you, Chuck.
:)
Cindy
HEY Dorman,
What are you doing? I saw your post about the gun and the knife, the boots and bandanna-- LOL!!! Picture a stepford wife with that sort of artillery-- THAT would be terrorism.
My birthday reminded me of the perfect roses you sent me last year that hit on my birthday. Those were the most beautiful roses I have ever seen and I will never forget them.
:)
How you been?
Cindy
BARNEY: Couldn't have put it more eloquently myself. Man, talk about being in _serious_ need of medication and therapy.
--DTS
What better Passover prayer than was just sung by Rabbi Dannelke.
Amen.
Whatya talkin' about, Ben?
You did fine. A touch of smug is GOOD for the soul now and then.
[DAY 115]
*** Diana ***
I don't honestly believe anybody here has felt "safe" or even comfortable since you wandered in here 115 days ago and introduced yourself by announcing we were all losers. The exception being unless we were crippled or mentally handicapped, in which case we might be excused.
In the ensuing weeks and months you alternated between personalities that read either as treacle sweet/insincere or psycho hose-beast with a Baskin-Robbins array of equally unpleasant psychological flavors in-between. While that last remark may seem harsh, it is certainly no less subtle than descriptions of your boy friend and your sex life.
You have spammed this board.
You have posted under pseudonyms to add to the frustration and devisiveness you have so willfully sown.
You have insulted at various times almost every individual who has dared to the post to this board since 12/23/02.
When that doesn't get a rise you insult us as a group.
If we don't rise to that bait you insult Harlan.
I am well and truly sick of this shit. These people are my friends. Harlan and Susan ARE MY FRIENDS.
I would say you have done what you came here to do almost 4 months ago. You've insulted and alienated us as a group and as individuals. You've inflicted your personality on this board on a daily and frequently hourly basis for months on end. You've trash talked Harlan.
By the way, I'm sure he's just reeling from that diatribe. Like it's new. Like he hasn't been putting up with juvenile shit like this since before you were born.
Now do all of us a favor and go the fuck away.
I'm STARTING to feel like Terry Waite. It's DAY 115.
Please let our board go.
Sincerely - Barney Dannelke
[an internet hostage of Diana Graham]
Ben,
I must say at this time you can tell us more about BLACK SUNDAY than I can. I rented the movie about 6 years ago and remember only portions of it. Two things stand out very well: the opening wherein the Inquisition makes nifty application of the nail mask on Babwa; and the English dubbing using the familiar voice of the guy who did Speed Racer in the old cartoon series! Apart from that I recall liking its atmosphere. I don't recall how good the script was; nor can I even recall the time lapse sequence you just described. I probably ought to look at it again; ironically, you've inspired the impulse. I CAN tell you that when this film was released Britain, unable to handle its witchcraft themes, banned it for many years.
So, we need to be careful about what I'm trying to "recommend highly". This was the film Corman imported to the States and it started that cycle I told you about. It's really the collective I wanted to point you through. No matter who was directing, all these films shared a common sense of the Baroque. It was interesting too how you described the actors as mannquins; because these films typically led the central figures out of their normal lives into a world of lurking ghosts, phantoms, and psychopaths. The two that gripped me when I was incredibly young were NIGHTMARE CASTLE and CASTLE OF TERROR (in which Poe himself appears as a character). The obvious low budgets and cliches never got in the way (hey, 8-year-olds buy into anything, anyway): I remember the chilling low-arched, tenebrous crypts which linked the natural and supernatural worlds and a dark path whose way out was unmarked, whatever direction you'd take. If any of this had been shot in color that whole effect would be ruined. That's what these films taught me when I was a kid. Horror is B&W, man.
Anyway, I'm glad you enjoyed BS because it at least gave you an idea of what I was getting at. I saw two films I liked by Bava (this one and the self-effacing BLACK SABBATH with Boris Karloff, which to my regret was in color; pretty to look at but not as creepy and forbidding; in fact, they close it with an intentionally amusing scene) and two I have to say were horrendously, hysterically bad...AND in color (Chuck got his own dose, though I didn't see those titles).
The two I got fixated on were not directed by Bava. But the impact of their imagery drove me to outline a haunted house story, which I'd like to develop one day. I'm anxious to illustrate it on PhotoShop. While these films served as the inspiration the setting is based on an actual location in Connecticut where stands an uninhabited, remote 250-year-old house...standing 4 stories high! A very creepy place. I'm glad Stephen King wasn't there or he'd be juicing ideas from it. The place was totally archetypal. Yeah, I have to get on that.
This is for you: take a look at Barbara Steele's countenance at this link. It says it all.
http://home.earthlink.net/~gershom/steele.html
Ooops, I mucked up that prayer a bit....I think I just thanked God for commanding the Webderland board to do something....regardless, you get the idea.
Shalom. Saronara. Adios. Arrividerci. Ciao.
-TODD
Chuck, I've been looking high and low for Kosher For Pesach fava beans, but alas, I had to settle for some mushy limas.
By the way, I'm not wearing any pants!!!!!!!!!!!!
Baruch atah adonoi elohainu melech ha-olam, asher kiddishanu b'mitvotav Webderland and all, ok most, of it's denizens.
Shalom. -TODD
And Cindy,
Although it is a little early, I do mean Happy Easter. And I do hope you had a great birthday.
Chuck
Picture me in a cell enclosed by bullet-proof glass with airholes in it. My hair is slicked back and there is a light shining under my face. (God knows how)
"Well, Todd, so you think things are getting a little weird around here? Well, what do you expect from a place like this? And, really, isn't the world just one big spherical insane asylum? Now, don't you worry your normal head about us. We'll be discussing movies and comic books heros soon enough. In the meantime, have a nice cup of tea and a happy passover."
"Oh, and by the way. Nice pants."
Chuck
Noooooo-- Diana,
I meant what I wrote-- that he must have been quite impressed to have made such a lovely remark to you.
I thought what he said was extraordinary and ORIGINAL-- we all know that he is nothing if not original. He must have thought you were striking or he would not have said what he did.
As for the simpering, breathless adoring female fan he's generally approached by-- no again, not at ALL. Breathless and adoring-- that would have been ME.
:)
I think if you will consider all things you will realize that it would be quite impossible for him to be overconfident.
I think you were beautiful and his reaction to that was genuine... and if I were you-- I'd take that personally and at face value.
NOW bring back my good Diana.
SHE IS MY FRIEND.
Cindy
I've looked over my previous posting, and I realize that I come off as a smug, snotty, know-it-all movie-maniac-wannabe. In short, AN AVERAGE FILM STUDENT.
I'm somewhat depressed at the moment. I'm taking a break for a few days. See you fellows later.
Happy Spike a Kike Day. When I read that, I laughed so hard I passed milk through my nose. Funny thing - I wasn't drinking milk. Then, a severe-looking nun appeared and pronounced it a miracle.
I guess I'm still getting used to my medication.
Anyway, Froeliche Pesach, to all those who celebrate Passover. I would have said, good yuntiv, but I don't know how to spell it. And Happy Easter to all you Christians out there...um, let me see...oh, I guess that would be YOU, Cindy. Oh, what the hell. Happy Easter to all those who give a hairy rat's butt.
And Cindy, aren't you going to tell us about your birthday? Or is it a tale too ticklish to tell?
Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm going to bite the head off a chocolate bunny and figure out how the HELL we managed to put together the egg - symbol of the soul and of rebirth - and a bunny that breaks and enters into millions of homes in order to hide a bunch of hard-boiled, artificially colored eggs. You have to admit, that does sound a bit peculiar. Especially since it's a celebration of the ressurection of someone after a miserable, torturous death. Combined with a bunny.
Where the hell does the BUNNY COME IN, HUH? And why is he rolling eggs under the sofa?
Sounds like a terrorist to me.
Chuck
P.S. Wait a minute. It won't be Easter until Sunday.
Fogeddabouddit.
Did I miss something? What the fuck is going on? Where are these weird-ass postings coming from?
Man, this board has gotten very strange. And very dull...........
Happy Passover and Merry Easter to those reg'lar folks out there! Now leave me be while I go find that friggin' Afikomen.
-TODD
CUE THE MUSIC...(theme music to JAWS)
JUST WHEN YOU WERE BEGINNING TO THINK IT MIGHT BE SAFE TO...whatever.
Cindy~
I luv ya, Cindy. I admmire the hell out of you. I'm as sincere as I can be about that. Don't let any of the more bitter cynical (and just plain nasty) assholes who post around here sometimes convince you different. They'll no doubt try. They're cruel and envious. Not like you at all. Which is WHY I luv ya.
I think you're "top drawer". I really do. :=)
But anyways...
I've been meaning to get back to about your response to me regarding my little Ellison anecdote. I believe you said I must have made quite (QUITE...you used caps) an impression on him?
Well, if by that you meant I gave him the impression (false) that I was the usual simpering, breathless adoring female fan he's generally approached by, and if you meant that I apparently
impressed him as being an easy mark, and a silly little ass, and if by that you meant that he seemed to have had the (mistaken) impression that I'd be likely to be thrilled as hell simply
to have him say that corny ass, entirely UNORIGINAL, ridiculous shit me to the extent that I was (it seems) supposed to just keel over in a mad love-swoon right then and there at the
"thrill" of being the object of his entirely momentary, and utterly fleeting (I know he doesn't remember me) amorous attentions? If that's what you meant by "QUITE" an impression, then, my answer is yes, I suppose I must have made "quite
' an impression indeed.
To respond to the rest of your commentary to my anecdote? No, I didn't think he was "smooth as silk". I thought he was OILY. And the truth is my deepest reaction to this insulting, smug,
overconfident little bastard and his arrogant presumptions towards me was...I got *really* pissed off. I was SERIOUSLY disappointed. I'd wanted to talk to him just to say the usual.
You know; to thank him, to tell him how amazing I find his writing, and so forth, like I said, the usual...I was a little nervous, him being HIM, and all, but I steeled my self, and approached him...
And before I could get two whole words out the SMUG (I'll say it again) SMUG little gopher hit me with his steely blues and this HORSESHIt, bogus LINE. My response to him then, which is
my response to him now, and which is my response to him generally, was (is, will be) GO FUCK YOURSELF HARLAN ELLISON 'CAUSE YOU AIN'T FUCKIN' ME!!! Not then. Not ever. I'm deadly serious. Picture this scenario: Harlan Ellison? Me? Last man, last woman on Earth? Well, maybe the rats and roaches (hopefully) will evolve into something interesting eventually, because even then...with the fate of humankind hanging in the balance, my response would still be...GO FUCK YOURSELF HARLAN ELLISON!!!
No offense.
Diana (Maybe Evil, Maybe Not, But Who Gives A Shit Anyway?)Graham
Jim,
There's a hidden, third whack in my oh-so-efficient torture - it breaks Kosher by mixing meat and cheese - not only will you be in agony on the toilet - G*d'll hate you, too.
Bern
(Smarter Than the Average Goy...)
SCOTT
"I'm just into Easter for the chocolate..."
Damn straight. My parents kept telling me about some poor schmoe dying for my sins or something. Then I was given chocolate. THIS is what traumatizes Christian children, guys.
Dying for sins, chocolate. Chocolate, dying for sins.
Can you understand the confusion here?
ROB,
Well, I managed to locate and watch BLACK SUNDAY, which you strongly recommended.
First, let me say Roger Corman ripped THE HELL off Mario Bava.
Second, Bava sure knows how to operate his camera. If anything, the film has STYLE in SPADES. I thought LEGEND had been the closest in capturing the essence of a Grimm fairy tale. BLACK SUNDAY knocked LEGEND off it's mantle for me in the first five minutes.
Third, the special effects (for their time and budget) were pretty incredible in spots. How the heck did Bava accomplish that aging effect on the witch at the climax? If it was the same technique used on THE WOLF MAN, BLACK SUNDAY puts Lon Chaney Jr. to shame terribly easily.
Fourth, the actors were mannequins. They really were, you know, but Bava seemed to realize this BIG flaw and managed to cover ground with a REEEEEEEEALLY sleek understanding of atmosphere.
Fifth, the name of the doctor who got vampirized / zombified / whatever. I don't know how exactly it was pronounced, but I kept hearing it as 'Dr. Kumbaya'. Kumbaya?
Did this happen to you?
CINDY,
Wait, I'M Christian. Didn't you notice that before?
Ah, well. Happy Easter.
Wonderful idea, Bern. Go feed me a cheeseburger, which has lactose AND red meat--both anathema to my digestive tract--and watch the, er, "fireworks" ensue. Why don't you just strap me to the top of a toilet for a hour, while you're at it?
As for my I-CON post: The truth? Three days ago, I spent an hour-and-a-half writing a WONDERFUL recap of the events in Stony Brook. Man, if I don't say so myself, it was GOOD. I wrote about the Elf Nazis, and how a plush doll drove a certain modern-day Mark Twain to a homicidal rage, and the story of Redneck Chef, and how we almost died en route to the diner . . . Oh boy, it was SWEET. So, I slam this baby out, and decide to print it to check for typos and mistakes. Well, when I clicked on the "Print" icon . . .
*POCK* The whole fucking system crashes. My post? Gone, daddy, gone, and no amount of trawling through temp file caches could bring it back.
So, you're just gonna have to wait, buddy. It's still too damned sore a subject with me to try again.
My favorite Bill Hicks:
"You think Jesus would be really pissed off if he came back and saw Christians all wearing crosses?"
Didja hear the news? Easter's cancelled.
Why?
They found the body.
(Okay, I'll stop . . .)
Bart: "Billy Graham's Bible Blaster?"
Rod: Keep firing; convert the heathens!
[cut to a pixilated video screen. Heathens cross the
street, as a Bible gun shoots the Holy Book at them. When
a heathen gets hit, he turns into a conservatively dressed
man with a halo]
[cut back to the boys]
Bart: Got him!
Rod: No, you just winged him and made him a Unitarian.
Oh, shit, this proves I need more sleep, or a good drubbing. The first part of my posting makes it look like I am blaming the Jews. I meant, you should not be silent, and Jews over the years have not--to their eteral gratitude.
Phew, almost got killed.
You all know that the best radicals have always been Jews; Jews understand what being silent does to a race. Being radical is just being upfront about how fucked up everything is; and telling the truth at all times is a must, no matter how much trouble it may get one into.
I do wish we would all abandon our personal religious faiths, and hit the Unitarian temple for bread and mayo. Yum.
-----------
I do not favor central government socialism any more than I do top down socialism, which our form of capitalism has become. I favor democratic reforms that will hopefully one day dismantle the free market lie.
-------
This one goes out to all the wishy washy "liberals".
'I go to civil rights rallies
And I put down the old D.A.R.
I love Harry and Sidney and Sammy
I hope every coloured boy becomes a star
But don't talk about revolution
That's going a little bit too far
So love me, love me, love me, I'm a liberal'
---Phil Ochs
Joseph,
You can't prove that.
Cindy
I've said it here before but saying the Jews killed Jesus is tantamount to saying that the Caucasians killed Kennedy.
You can't BE a Christian unless you love AT LEAST one Jew. This would not escape anyone who is not monumentally stupid.
As the only Christian that I have seen around these parts in quite a spell...
Happy Easter to me.
:)
Cindy
I forgot my wallet today, which not only meant that I had to spend my lunch hour browsing rather than eating, I couldn't buy the McSweeney's I finally found at the campus bookstore.
So I read the story while standing there. Hungry. Giggling.
And in the interests of keeping this as PC as possible, I'd like to extend my gratitude to the Tribes of Israel during this Easter season, for their noble, but failed attempt to quash the Nazarene heresy and spare the world the scourge of Christianity. In short, thank you Jews, for killing Jesus.
It was fairly obvious that first-century Jews recognized that the Naz's words, however well-meaning, would form the basis for yet another small-minded, authoritarian, anti-rational cult that would cause no end of harm to humankind. One may quibble with the tactic chosen, i.e., have Jesus executed by the Roman legal system, but there's no denying that if it had worked, we may be enjoying a better society today.
Sadly, the same visionaries who recognized the coming evils failed to understand how _stupid_ the early Xtians were. Yes, they figured the Apostles might try that "came back from the dead" nonsense, but they hadn't expect so many people to _believe_ it. So the plan backfired, and the world was stuck with an obstacle to progress for two thousand years. But, I'd like to give a "at least you tried, better luck next time" shout-out to the homies.
Ah, the thoughts of Montreal; used to have a marvelous and vibrant Jewish community, until the Parti Quebecquois came in, making their overt attempt to oust the languages and cultures they saw as differing to their agenda of "the nation Quebec".
Froylika Pesach, to my friends here, and to those who remain in my hometown, despite the pressure to leave in order to find more tolerance for themselves and their children in Jewish.
I'm just into Easter for the chocolate...
To the thoughts of all those days and nights I snuck into Parc Jarry, crossing the CPR tracks at Boulevard St. Laurent, to see my Expos play. Coco Laboy, Stoney, Le Grande Orange, Larry Parrish, Rodney Scott, Chris Spiers, Kenny Singleton, The Hawk, The Kid, The Little General, all gone; soon, the team too.
Thomas Wolfe was right...
Scott
Harlan: you made me laugh. Now Good Friday's always gonna carry that un-PC connotation for me. Sort of like the guy who taught me the opening to Ellington's "Things Ain't What They Used to Be" with a pornagraphic lyric back when I was 15. Everytime I hear that song,for the rest of my life, I will hear it as "All the guys in the band eat____" (you figure it out).
To all: Happy Spring Holidays. I'll be in Takoma Park, MD reuniting with my children who are spending the week with my mother-in-law. Easter is a nice time to be in the DC area: lots of flowers and greenery which we haven't quite yet seen in Upstate New York. Will probably do the high-church Episcopal thang on Sunday. That, and eat a good meal.
Froeliche Pesach!
love--
cookie
Dear Mr. Selig,
My city would be a fine location for an Expos homestand. We have a lovely little cramped stadium that only occasionally gets used by a local softball team. I'm sure the owners won't mind if the Expos play at Wrigley for a while.
Yours,
Tom Tunney
Alderman, 44th Ward
Chicago
Cindy,
So it was YOU causing all that trouble at the White Sox game last night!
;)
Joseph
Joseph: Ah, zany fans and a Klassic Koch meltdown, the sort he seemed to have every sixth save opportunity when he was with the Jays. But now I have to wonder, looking at team records, if the Expos will be expected to play 1/4 of their playoff games in Puerto Rico should they make the playoffs. Maybe the Expos could just formally become MLB's team without a single city -- 20 games in Mexico City, 20 games in Montreal, 20 games in Puerto Rico, 20 games in Washington, and one game at a site to be determined by a write-in campaign -- basically, 'Why should your city be home to the Expos for 24 hours?'
Cheers, Jon
Yeah, Jim - You are... (Don't make me come down there and feed you a cheeseburger...)
Bern
ALEX K: "Barney Makes a Coprolith"? Oh, that's GOOD. (And don't worry about the tardiness of your Harlan report. Seems I'm two weeks late with a certain I-CON post, myself . . .)
Not to mention that charming precursor to the "Easter egg roll": the "JEW roll," where one lucky member of the Tribe was placed in a spiked barrel (the spikes facing INWARDS, mind you) at the top of a hill. Fun for the whole village.
(Don't mind me. I just finished a book on the history of antisemitism, so I'm feeling even more downtrodden than usual . . .)
Froylika Pesach Y'all.
:)
I suppose I am safe writing the phrase-- not too much chance of a screw up there with it all spelled out for me. Yesterday I almost caused a riot at a baseball game by pronouncing something incorrectly in Spanish.
I learned it from an 8 year old boy who had a warped but evidently highly effective sense of humor.
Happy Passover to you all nonetheless.
:)
Cindy
Did I get around to wishing you all a sincere Passover? Consider it done. And for those of you who celebrate Easter, should you wish to sound like a luntzmahn and wish "happy Passover" to your Semite brethren, use the phrase "froylika Pesach." Pronounced froy-LICK-uh PAY-sacccccchhhhhh. The less drool and spittle, the better.
And I will not, I promise you, indulge my demented sense of humor by refering to the Christian holiday as "Spike a Kike Day." I will not. I absolutely will not. Because, remember, if we aren't sternly and seriously PC, the terrorists will have won.
Yours in wincing, Harlan
The Museum of Television & Radio announced today that they'll be featuring rare recordings of Lindbergh trial coverage and the recently discovered, only known and complete version of the original Studio One broadcast of "Twelve Angry Men" from May 23 through July 6 in LA and NY:
http://my.aol.com/news/news_story.psp?type=4&cat=0800&id=03041610020573968
I tell you, the lost bits of "The Magnificent Ambersons" are out there, somewhere...
Brian,
"But, when power is held by a relative few, one starts to see a decline in the overall quality of life."
While you basically summarized my entire argument, I've always felt that the "pursuit of happiness" concept a rather simplistic idealism - as it's been a virtual euphemism for destructive hording and "ME" at the expense of everyone else's interest. Yet, as I pointed out, it is the essence of our miserable nature; hence, the need for a regulatory framework. In the end we're left with few practical options. No oligarchy (as you suggested) would serve the common interest any better.
To Rob and Frank: You're both addressing an issue which I see as a core factor in human happiness. That's the concentration of power.
At the risk of vastly oversimplifying things, I regard this issue to be more important than whether a society is capitalist, socialist, or whatever. Societies can be either of these things, and still vary widely in terms of how widely power is distributed. But, when power is held by a relative few, one starts to see a decline in the overall quality of life.
One of the liberating aspects of capitalism was that it offered people a chance to develop their own methods of commerce, and to acquire a greater degree of power and influence than they could have under monarchies, the Church, or feudalism. (And one of its inhibiting aspects is that capitalism tends toward monopoly, this creating new centralizations of power.)
Scott of the Komms -
You need to put those office hours in bigger, bolder letters for our short-sighted generals.
Jay, Yangs:
Nope, you merely got three of four of our provincial legislatures. And, for the record, we're entirely grateful, except for the fact that you didn't wait for the governments to be in session prior to setting your blazes.
C'mon, Yangs, get it together. We did send you those brochures...
Scott
PAGING CINDY. NOW PAGING CINDY.
WILL CINDY JONES PLEASE EMPTY HER FREAKIN' EMAIL BOX SO THOSE OF US THAT NEED TO SEND HER EMAIL CAN, PLEASE?!
Thank you. That is all.
L.
Rob:
Aww, c'mon. It was just a weenie roast gone badly wrong. I looked up the comments of those involved, and they insist it was the beer...Canadian beer, you see. Ever seen liquored up Maple Leaf fans trying to operate a barbeque?
Xan: Sorry about the snit. I thought wooly mammoth snits became extinct during the last ice age. Share a bus with a coelacanth lately?
Scott
Scott -
Didn't we burn down a few of what you call "Hockey stadiums" in the past few decades? The cultural loss to your people must have been staggering. Our debt to your fine, peaceloving people is great. Soon, we will show you the miracle of something our God calls "gunpowder" - we're sure it will revolutionize the nation.
:)
Scott,
"I'm sorry we burnt down your white house during the war of 1812. "
Oh, don't fool yourself, man. You're on our list for that one. We're gonna invade your asses...at a time of our choosing.
Jon Stover,
Yikes, indeed. I wish I could explain why KC games attract suburban yahoos to drink too much and beat up on officials (by the way, see the pics of the attacker? He got his due from the players.)
On the other hand, maybe the baseball gods just got ticked off at how poorly the umpires were calling the game. Note to the umps - the strike zone ends at the side of the plate.
Regards,
Joseph
Damn it, Scott - I was flying along, minding my own business (I'm a Capitalist, after all, must oppress the working class at all hours, day or night...), when your "Canadian" attempt at humor arrived over my wireless broadband connection. I took my eyes off the controls to read the it, and bam!, I ran smack into the largest snit I've ever seen (you could even say it was mammoth). Now, I have to run the plane through the wash again... (my 12 noon tee-time is absolutely not doable, now...) Small snits are never a problem - they get sucked through the engines without notice (actually, I think I have spotted a slight increase in power after ramming through a spliff of snits - they must seal the valves or something...), but the bigger snits splash when you hit 'em and the gunk is harder to get off than bugs guts on a windshield...
In closing, thanks, thanks a lot,
An Angry American Capitalist
BAG O' SCOTT: I am of the firm opinion that Colin Mochrie is the funniest man working in comedy today. One of the few reasons I turn on the television is to catch his brilliance on "Whose Line Is It Anyway."
And he does the best Tyrannosaur impression I've ever seen!
best to all,
Michael
Hey, guys, apropos nothing, but a bit of humour crossed my desk, and thought of you few Americans who seem to have maintained an ability to take a joke about your country without flying into a mammoth snit. This one's for you.
I'll wait for Todd and Barney to leave the room...
"On behalf of Canadians everywhere I'd like to offer an apology to the United States of America.
We haven't been getting along very well recently and for that, I am truly sorry.
I'm sorry we called George Bush a moron. He is a moron, but, it wasn't nice of us to point it out. If it's any consolation, the fact that he's a moron shouldn't reflect poorly on the people of America. After all, it's not like you actually elected him.
I'm sorry about our softwood lumber. Just because we have more trees than you doesn't give us the right to sell you lumber that's cheaper and better than your own.
I'm sorry we beat you in Olympic hockey. In our defense I guess our excuse would be that our team was much, much, much, much better than yours.
I'm sorry we burnt down your white house during the war of 1812. I notice you've rebuilt it! It's very nice.
I'm sorry about your beer. I know we had nothing to do with your beer but, we feel your pain.
I'm sorry about our waffling on Iraq. I mean, when you're going up against a crazed dictator, you want to have your friends by your side. I realize it took more than two years before you guys pitched in against Hitler, but that was different. Everyone knew he had weapons.
And finally on behalf of all Canadians, I'm sorry that we're constantly apologizing for things in a passive-aggressive way which is really a thinly veiled criticism. I sincerely hope that you're not upset over this.
We've seen what you do to countries you get upset with.
Thank you."
--Colin Mochrie, "This Hour has 22 Minutes"
I'll be in the bomb shelter, sugaring up some snow...
Scott
Could anybody who owns the anthology "Master's Choice" edited by Lawrence Block tell me the exact phrasing of the sentence from Mr. Ellison's introduction to his story where he mentions Ernest Hemingway? (Preferably in e-mail). The Czech translation seems obviously faulty.
Thanks a lot,
Harlan, think nothing of it. When I saw you last Wednesday, I was coming off a round of catscans and petscans, bone biopsies and chalky potions. I was glad to think about something other than illness for a change. Besides, though we first met (omigawd) 36 years ago, the fact is that we've spoken on the phone maybe 20, 25 times, and seen each other in person maybe half as many times. I'm happy you even remember who the hell I am, given the number of people you meet. I surely don't expect you to recall my Cleveland Clinic chart.
The tests took up so much time that day, Robin and I damn near missed getting to the Rock Hall on time. And you were superb, lemme tell ya! Robin used to be terrified of you, you know. The first time she ever saw you was at your appearance at the Superman Expo that Tony Isabella ran, back in 1988. You were in rare form that day. She wanted to hide behind someone (me, probably). For 15 years, she's talked about you in terms of admiration and fear. That all changed last week. Now, she keeps saying, "I want to see Harlan again! Let's go see Harlan again!"
I've told her it's probably a good idea to wait until you're making an appearance somewhere.
Brian, okay, admittedly, it's terrifying. But what's terrifying isn't the initial diagnosis. It's when you think you're cured and then, THEN, three months go by, and a new test says, "I'm baaaaaaack!" That's when the real hammer comes down, when you realize that even if they declare you clean again, that shadow will always loom over you. That's when you realize you'll never again take living for granted.
I'll have to increase the rate I'm selling old stuff on Ebay.
Jim, thanks. You're a mensch--even if you did like "Signs," which has earned a place in film history alongside "Glenn or Glenda" and "Barney Makes a Coprolith."
I'll try to get a report on Harlan's appearance here in Cleveburg later today, folks. Sorry for the delays.
--Alex
Frank,
There was some truth in a number of statements both you and Joseph made. But it is Joseph's line that gets at something really crucial: "Capitalism can be leftist, rightist, upways, downways, whatever; the same as economic systems like socialism and communism".
I'll express my thoughts here quickly. Then, in the end, I'm going to tell you quite succinctly why you're as much a capitalist as I am, whether you want to admit it or not (otherwise, back up your rhetoric and abandon all your property). For the record, I honestly hate admitting it myself; but, given my sense of propriety and privacy, I'd be lying if I didn't.
Conservative policy reaches through ANY political system, when it comes to the economic infrastructure, whether we're talking about a capitilist, communist, or socialist hierarcy. There is no system that will not in some way impinge on individual rights. Whether we scatter about ducking and dodging the varients of free enterprise or live by the dictates of a small group of power-gorging psychotics, we must always pay the piper.
Capitalism has had a horrendous history attached to it. Absolutely. In its sweep of exploitation it cost a great deal in lives, human dignity, and environment. Yet, nothing less can be said about any OTHER socio-economic system devised and implemented. Nothing YOU hold faith in would work any better. Kneel on the prie-dieu and worhip a single idea to your heart's content, it will never reconcile the human proclivity to ABUSE POWER! To put it another way, whatever socio-economic theory you could come up with (and no form of anarchy will achieve a thing) or embrace, I guarantee it would find its course to corruption as all other systems have. The human race certainly has its beacons; I wouldn't hang out at this site if I didn't realize that. But they are vastly outnumbered by the masses. And the sensibility of the masses is generally what shapes those who lead, whether we're talking about a regime or a republic. In the END, Frank, EVERYTHING winds up a "right-wing ideal".
Everyone is conditioned - "brainwashed" if you prefer - by the system they were raised in. Invariably, its engines would be run by those who would gain most by it. And possibly without exception every system sounded sublime when it was on paper as a theory, as the status quo was crumbling. But it would never quite work out as conceived when implemented. If we accept that as a given, then ideally we want to strive for the system that best enables the individual to cope with the prevailing forces.
As much as capitalism can be a turn off, I would prefer to deal with its odds and fight for the necessary checks and balances (without which, indeed, capitalism would be an utter, catastrophic failure, as the 19th and early 20th centuries demonstrated) to a system in which the masses must answer to the dictates of the few. Yes, we are manipulated pitiably here by the few as well. But for all the disgusting aspects about it at least it is a system that allows us more options. My point, then, is no matter what the system, until we've evolved past such material need, you'll always have to contend with these constraints. The question then remains, which system best minimizes the constraints?
Now, in closing: In a post eons ago you predicated something like, "property is a lie". I think that quote is verbatim.
I'm going to tell you why property is a harsh, stark reality. It has nothing to do with the courts, the Bill of Rights, providence, manifesto, or decree.
No, the matter is simpler than that:
If you touch my computer or try and take it away I'll punch your face out.
If you try and steal my car I'll wedge your head under the front right tire and turn it into road kill.
If you try and take my umbrella, my only means to protect my innocent existence from the rain, I'll impale you with it and leave your carcass for the gulls to feed on.
This is the one thing that makes property very real. It has been this real since our species evolved.
a votre sante.
Hey .... you wanna know something rather unique? GOD CAME IN A UFO!
Joseph: So, does Kansas City coming to town have some hitherto unpublicized effect on ChiSox fans? Yikes.
Cheers, Jon
The Human Genome Project is now complete.
Maybe Rick will have to change it to: "Screw SETI, *this* is what the internet was created for"
The Human Genome Project is now complete.
The news agencies barely gave it notice. I mean, how could something as trivial as THIS affect us, right?
This is going to take a little while for me to take in.
Chuck
Frank,
Kindly, don't twist my use of English into Swahili. What I said was:
" As for Chmosky, output does not equal knowledge or understanding or compassion. His hatred for everything capitalistic overshadows his good intentions and turns his writings into a black ball of hatred."
What you said was:
"Joseph, hope you are not saying that leftism is compatible with capitalism? Capitalism is a right wing ideal. Why do you think most of Europe are Social Democratic? Slavery itself was our first research study on the merits of capitalism. Sure, it worked and made America rich, but for what price? We don't actually have a capitalist system anyway, just ask the Libertarians. We have a very large state assistance program for rich corporations. Without state subsidy most big corporations would go bust. Just pop on Clear Channel for a bit and tell me how wonderful the sound of the cash register really is."
Otherwise known as intentionaly confusing the issue. Here'e short lesson in history, economics and politics:
NO ECONOMIC SYSTEM IS INHERENTLY POLITIC.
Capitalism can be leftist, rightist, upways, downways, whatever; the same as economic systems like socialism and communism. To say that capitalism is "a right wing ideal" is falling into the same small-minded trap that many people fell onto and caused wars with in the 20th century. STOP IT. That is how people end up dying - byt stupidity and failure to move on from idealism and small thoughts.
DEB,
They don't? Oh, GOOD.
Eric, even when I am angry I have a smile on my face. But thank you for the apology.
I knew that quote seemed familiar Harlan, good to be rightly schooled on that. I bet Turin thought because it was a short quote, that it didn't matter.
Since I have your ear, Harlan, what are your thoughts on H.L. Mencken? He was a bit of a bigot, but a great writer.
Frank, I came on a little hard. I'm sorry for getting personal. Bad day, but that's just a reason, not an justification. Again, my apologies.
In defense of the indefensible, golf, I might suggest that it's the least of the enviromentalists' worries. Courses eat a lot of water, yes, and way too many pesticides, but what would be there in their place? Not city parks or homeless shelters, that I guarantee you, but more shameless commercial or residential development. Or maybe just parking lots, or another giant cement stadium. I'll take a town with a lot golf courses any day.
Golf is a non-violent, non-polluting sport (electric carts!), and it's QUIET, something that is increasingly precious in these noisy times. I agree that the culture has traditionally been dominated by moneyed old farts, but people like me are CHANGING that. Get on a course these days; you'll be surprised at who you see there. Don't take a cue from the whitebreads who are on the PGA tour...people of all kinds golf.
I am an active environmentalist, a member of several grass-roots organizations and an occasional community eco-volunteer. I am also into golf and old cars, two areas supposedly the bane of the eco-warrior. I say, worry about the real problems, like Monsanto, Exxon and Dow. Corporate power is the ultimate enemy, not the neighborhood 9-hole, or the restored '57 Bel Aire.
When golf courses and pre-catalytic converter Chevys are all we have left to yell about, Nirvana is in our grasp.
Apologies, M. Ellison; the omission of "fifty" is mine, but I do have the quote listed as I'd originally written it in two different volumes. Still, foolish remains foolish.
Curious, sir, if you've the time. Any impression of either the film or novel from your critical eye?
Scott
FRANK CHURCH, et al seriatim:
Kindly do not attribute to a slightly-smarter-than-middling film critic one of the great aphorisms of all time.
Kenneth Turin DID NOT author that quote, he merely used it without attribution. And he didn't even get it right.
ANATOLE FRANCE wrote: "If fifty million people say a foolish thing it is, nonetheless, still a foolish thing."
To give Turin credit for the remark is on a par with crediting authorship of the Bhagavad-Gita to Kahlil Gibran. Tom Clancy and WAR AND PEACE. Adam Sandler and JOE MILLER'S JOKEBOOK.
yr. steadfastly corrective pal, Harlan
Per NPR, the ONLY bldg. the Marines are guarding is the Ministry of Oil in Baghdad, while hospitals are being pillaged, the National Archives has burned with all the invaluable books and documents dating to the early Ottoman days, and the National Museum has been plundered. We're talking artifacts dating to the first human civilization...gone. One of the original Korans...burned. Yet, our government KNEW or SHOULD HAVE KNOWN that this would happen because similar events happened after the Gulf War I. Does this give anyone else pause?? On to Damascus!!!...oh boy...
Time for another bullshit argument, gang. (What? _Another_?) The AFI's compiled yet another list of Top Things from Movies. This time it's Heroes and Villains. They're doing a TV show hosted by "everybody's favorite mesomorph," Arnold Schwarzenegger.
The AFI website has a list of about 400 nominees. Once again, there are going to be odd quibbles here and there. For example, where do Bonnie and Clyde fit-- heroes or villains? Belle from _Beauty and the Beast_ is listed-- not the Belle from Jean Cocteau's version, but from the Disney version.
And I'm not keen on including real historical figures in such a list. One gets movies where bad people are treated as heroes, like Bonnie and Clyde, or movies where "villainy" just doesn't fit, like Antonio Salieri in _Amadeus_. It seems a bit disrespectful to reduce people like Stephen Biko or Thomas Edision to mere movie "heroes."
So have fun with this topic.
Eric, I doubt you actually read all my postings; I have been quite nice at times, but the world is in such a state of chaos, that being positive most of the time is a chore. My golfing rant was in tune with most environmentalists, who view land space at golf courses as a major water waster. And think of all those trees they end up cutting down? The Japanese alone are turning Hawaii into one big golf course. Remember Eric, anger is a gift.
--------
Joseph, hope you are not saying that leftism is compatible with capitalism? Capitalism is a right wing ideal. Why do you think most of Europe are Social Democratic? Slavery itself was our first research study on the merits of capitalism. Sure, it worked and made America rich, but for what price? We don't actually have a capitalist system anyway, just ask the Libertarians. We have a very large state assistance program for rich corporations. Without state subsidy most big corporations would go bust. Just pop on Clear Channel for a bit and tell me how wonderful the sound of the cash register really is.
-----------------
Rob, if I am Todd, then boil me in vaseline in one of those KFC deep fat cookers. We love the man Ellison and sing his praises to the roof tops like Topel. Todd just was raised in a very propagandistic way; but he isn't to blame--there are many in his rather over-full boat. But he is our friend here. We just like to scrap. Better than war, to be sure.
------------
Todd, imagine if you will, some hoodlums ransack Washington D.C.; they spray graffiti on the Lincoln Memorial; throw molotov cocktails into the President's window; take the Bill Of Rights out of it's case and rip it to shreds and piss on it. You think maybe our police would stop them; maybe even with deadly force? You and I know the first person to aim that spraycan would get shot in the back and dragged into the Potomic to sink. That is what the museum in Baghdad was to Iraqi people--A sacred shrine of their, once, great history.
Don't forget, the main reason our military left Baghdad was to secure the oil fields in Tikrut. They are now even talking about privitizing part of the Iraqi economy. Bush and Co. want to make Iraq safe for exploitation. It is now in our coffers, like a bobble. That's all the war was about Todd--America's control of the world. We are an empire Todd. Now onto Syria. Grumble.
Ben--
Were you talking about the ZOMBIE with Tina Farrow in it? I agree with what you say about italian horror films for the most part. I own ZOMBIE because I thought it was extremely creepy. The acting was pretty bad its true, but that made it even creepier. The effects were guy-wrenching. I would not recommend it to anyone, but I like being ( safely ) scared. This film did that for me. They don't make 'em like that anymore!
Chuck~ You're welcome.
Oh and btw, that amphibian thing? Only temporary...
L.
Some of you may like this. It's a bit patriotic, I guess, and not really in keeping with my own contrarian nature, but I think it's a good statement by a pretty decent man. (And it has nothing to do with golf, boxing, or bad Italian horror movies.)
http://66.165.133.65/politics/quotes/powell.php
It's too bad Powell's talents are being wasted in this administration.
Eric,
Oh, shit mist. A fine product. I must stock up.
Do they have organic?
Ben,
Re: those comedies.
Yes to both. I have Shot In The Dark on tape, along with The Pink Panther Strikes Again (with an opening worthy of the descriptive "classic", wherein Dreyfuss, healthy and confident as ever is about to leave the mental insitution and within 5 minutes of a visit from a visiting, well-intended Closeau is plummeted back into raving madness...at one point crawling on all fours singing 'Somewhere Over the Rainbow').
Remember to examine those early Italian flicks.
No, no, Ben. 1980? Too modern. Way too modern.
I wouldn't even consider looking at a Hammer film made after 1970. Likewise, the only Italian horror films worth anything were made between 1960 and '68. That's all I'm talking about. You should explore some of those. The ones with B. Steele. But disregard any made after those years.
Frank, in response to your quote of Turin:
"If a million people say a foolish thing, it is still a foolish thing."
He didn't get it either, but Turin is not alone. Numerous critics have looked upon Cronenberg's work with distaste, often utilizing his early work with his use of disturbing visual images and daring subject matter to bookend their comments about how David is violent and perverted in his cinematic outlook. They're all incredibly wrong. Cronenberg is always challenging perceptions, examining the manner of existence in a very visceral and confrontational manner.
R. Wilder: You should've gone all out, and did "That Atrocity Exhibition". It might've really gotten into fun interchanges like human sacrifices, or four or five state murder/robbery sprees. Should the opportunity ever avail itself, get the rerelease of the book from Re-Search Press, and subject it to as many good folks as possible. I thought it one hell of an improvement over my Grove Press edition of "Love and Napalm: Export U.S.A." (God, I hated that title). This version even includes the fantastic "The Assassination of John Fitzgerald Kennedy Considered as a Downhill Motor Race".
Todd:
The only thing about this war I've agreed with was the ouster of Hussein. As I watch the chaos and thefts, that queasy feeling of uncertainty about the cause of war, and the looting is part of the reason, but not for the fact of the lawlessness it represents. No, the thefts weren't a surprise, most folks who have suffered under a tyrant do tend to act out in some fashion at the perception of being liberated. It's the inability of the the liberating military to see such actions by the population coming, actions which could've greatly imperiled the soldiers as well as the people themselves that disturbs me. I look upon the chaos as another indicator of a poorly thought out, somewhat disingenuous strategy by the political and military planners of the US and its allies when it came to prosecute this conflict. There was the design for war, but I don't think the US and its allies ever had any real plan for peace.
The war itself, mind, that went surprisingly well, and that small kernel of a military man inside me is glad of it. It is the question of now, and the future of Iraq, that rests in the hands of the US and UN, and based on what I've seen, there appears to have been precious little planning by those who have made assurances to the civilian population into what to do now. Power is still off in most all of the major cities, greatly undermining the ability for the civilians to get and maintain water and food, not to mention the great need for medical facilities. All I've seen so far is a great deal of discussion into who oversees the transition into what all profess to be a much better Iraq, not when the food arrives, when do we get to have water to drink?
Yeah, I've heard the promises made too, but delivery is where I'll examine the good intentions.
Scott, extremely happy that Charest has now removed the spectre of separation from the future of Canada for some time to come. Maybe Quebecquois will finally realize our culture and language aren't threatened, and that remaining in Canada is best for all concerned. Sanity reigns in Quebec again!
Excuse me, I meant "fuck nuts." Obviously there is a key semantic difference.
ROB,
I've actually avoided the majority of Italian horror, as I believe they cross the line from portraying evil and sadism to BEING evil and sadistic. BLACK SUNDAY I haven't yet seen, but I've watched the likes of 1980's Italian horror such as ZOMBIE and DEMONS. Eeeeerrrrggghhhh...my bad. I had to fast-forward through the majority of ZOMBIE. Too many times I kept saying, "Oh please, that's enough."
The scripts were horrible, the actors were terrible, and yet there's something distinctly gut-wrenching about Italian horror...a kind of inevitable, sickening sense of doom and despair. Maybe it's the whole Catholic guilt thing, I don't know...but these movies are HORRIFIC. For all their crappy trappings, they often touch on something truly nightmarish and primal that can be genuinely branded as bona fide HORROR.
Oh yes - the comedy genre. You've seen such masterworks as AIRPLANE! and A SHOT IN THE DARK, I take it?
It has nothing to do with golf. I went off on Frank because I'm tired of him spraying a shit-mist on everything, as he cloaks himself in the "bleeding-heart liberal" guise, which he so evidently is not. Assholery only gets you so far, and Frank's meter is UP, as far as I'm concerned.
And speaking of "nut fucks," sure, golf has its share. So does science fiction fandom and Ellison readership, hallowed pursuits on this board. And by god, so does Webderland, where a quick scan of the past month of posts would warm the cockles of any PH.D. candidate in psychology's heart. There's an easy dissertation or two to be found in our own leavings.
Condi Sez: "It is time to sign on to a different kind of Middle East."
Anyone with a big brain want to explain to me what the fuck this means? Pretty fucking bold statement, if you ask me. Who's got the sign up sheet here, the US? This ain't frigging intramural soccer, you malfunctioning servitor drone!
"Iraqi Freedom"'s nearly over, and we spent all this time looking for WMDs with little effect, now we're saying Syria not only has WMDs, but is hosting Iraqi fugitives (war criminals) and Iraqi WMDs, thus setting the stage for, what, Operation Syrian Liberty?
Of course not. When pressed, Rice said, "The president has made clear every problem in the Middle East cannot be dealt with the same way." In other words, the military can bomb the shit out of Iraq and Afghanistan, but a third might actually bring out some serious terrorist reprisals AND unite the Arab world against us. Kinda like North Korea, there'd be actual casualty numbers the American people can't get distracted from by waving a flag and blaring Lee Greenwood. Not significant casualties directly, mind you. We could roll into Damascus within a week, but then have Jordan, Egypt, Lebanon and other nations bombing the shit out of Israel and enjoying the warm blanket of Orange/Red Alerts for the next 12 months.
And what "different kind" of region is Rice talking about? A Middle East on American terms? Oh THAT will go over real well with the natives. Its that kind of soundbyte bullshit blurb that pushes the moderate Arabs away from our side of the table and helps give the zealots more reason to hate us and Israel.
What if someone misses the sign up sheet? Can they "phone in" instead of "signing on" or can they "thumbs up" their participation? So long as they give a "high sign" to some esoteric fucking westernized behavior we won't mess with their fascist regimes.
Same old bullshit. Same stupid, hypocritical bullshit. Syria has WMDs. We know this. They've been used to end uprisings. But we CAN'T invade Syria. Iraq, yes. Syria, no. Because the situation doesn't call for it. But what about those millions of Syrians yearning to be free? Why can't we hide behind that crock of shit logic and just bomb them into accepting McDonalds' and Starbucks on every corner?
Shit. Another day, another step closer to Armageddon...head west and you'll be there by nightfall, General
Re: Tyson. Yes, the man whose rape defense was "yeah, she was sayin' no, but she didn get up ta leave, now. She say right under where she s'posed to til we wuz done."*
Hey, I lost the office pool. We're going after Syria instead of Iran (for now anyway). I'm bummed because the office pool entires included "Belgium" "New Jersey" and "that triangle shaped country below Mexico." Thought I was a shoo-in.
BOXING: I would class boxing as a PHYSICAL chess. There is a focus and a stamina (when done right; when it's not just Big Jamoke Slapping Fists With Big Jamoke) there which is impressive, as well as a straegy aspect--but there's little intellectual about it.
I'm thinking about Howard Gardner's theory of multiple intelligences (though he at first started with the supposition that there were seven autonomous intellectual capacities we use--linguistic, musical, logical-mathematical, spatial, bodily-kinesthetic, interpersonal, and intrapersonal intelligences--I think he's now up to nine).
With an Ali or a Sugar Ray (either one), we see the Bodily-kinesthetic intelligence at the genius level. Sadly, the same goes for early Mike Tyson, before his fighting style descended into thuggery and brutality.
But LYNN: While I will admit that professional wrestlers are indeed athletes--and I've been friendly with a few--what they are NOT is "COMPETITORS." With the probable exception of the resident Big Fat Guy of any given league, these guys HAVE to be athletic to pull off the stunts they perform. But they're not actually pitting their skills against one another in real competition.
JAY: Your first statement was correct: Tyson IS a "mental champion." In fact, Ol' Champ went mental some time ago.
(Here--a fun exercise: picture this, in Tyson's voice: "Knight takesth pawwwn. Chtheckmate in foo-ah movessth." Try not to laugh.)
FRANK: You know, Tower Records has a recent Chomsky DVD clearance-priced very cheap.
MUSIC RECOMMENDATIONS: Dunno if I've hyped this CD here before, but give a listen to the PROZAK FOR LOVERS samples at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/prozak
You'll recoil in horror, laugh your ass off, or both.
Todd,
Re: your post-war quandary.
You're stating a false premise and therefore drawing the wrong inference. Perhaps for your convenience.
We neither had to "keep him in power at the cost of these relics" nor would we have had to (necessarily) blow anyone's brains out upon raiding the museum (earlier on troops occasionally shot some rounds in the air; civilians moved away. It most likely would have worked at locations like the museum too).
Another false premise is the notion of all lefties being outright against the war. The issue wasn't weather or not Hussein should be dealt with by force, but how to follow through in post war. Weak diplomatic skills and neglecting the crucial questions become evident potholes in the planning. Questions like security and disorder SHOULD have come up before we sent Saddam fleeing. You don't ask the crucial questions after you serve your opponent; you ask them all before jumping in.
In summary, then, the problem lies in abysmal planning for the post war. Is it wise to plan a war and leave a vacuum in its wake? Obviously, security was going to be needed. Who wouldn't have forseen it (other than that ass you voted for)? There were Iraqis pleading with our military leaders to at least provide SOME civil order to protect such things as museums, schools, and so on. But we decided to back down in ALL ways, including, perhaps, the wrong ways. We brought havoc to the country; we knew how to write out the battle. But we didn't know much about writing the denouement.
It seems to me a great deal was put into waging the war but not ending the war. Very little understanding of the people there and their culture was complemented only by a cluelessness about the leadership that would take control of the country.
Todd,
Yeah, I know. I'm ALWAYS right. That is an inherent trait of the left!
Dammit, Rob, you figured it out. In the worst case of fake internet identity since the first man signed into the singles chats pretending to be a woman, I've not only planted Frank Church on this board.
I AM Frank Church!
-TODD
(don't worry, Frank, I'll tell them the truth after a few days: that you and I are the illegitimate twins of Bill Clinton and Ann Coulter).
Eric,
"who through your own unlovely presentation does far more harm to the causes you support than good."
I have mixed reactions to the emotional stuff you just laid on Frank. He is entitled to state his opinions, if that's what one can call them, without having to be asked them. I mean you're not exactly irreproachable when it comes to making occasionally dopey statements here yourself. I've had MY own moments under the full moon too.
BUT...I feel that last line of yours DOES carry some weight. Not with respect to the subject in question. I mean whether you enjoy Golf or not, who gives a fuck? There are more important topics one could seethe about. Either way I don't intend to start a recycled free-for-all on Frank; I don't want that shit at all. Regardless, I raise the point because, on the broader landscape, I don't like Lefties being made out or interpreted as imprudent spouters of weak polemics and idealistic generalizations at the expense of a compelling argument (try hard to consider that Frank!). It's like a subversion. One to delight the fuck out of the Righties. (Hell, that's why the 60's lost out to Nixon; the Right held a firm grip since). I actually suspect at times that Todd himself planted Frank here!
Now on to the next topic.
Say, Cindy:
I remember you celebrated your birthday recently. How did it go? Did you have fun?
My sister Julie celebrated her 44th yesterday. It was great to see her happy. I told her the gang here wished her a happy birthday. Thanks, Lynn.
Chuck
"You in the corner, quit snickering or I'll turn you into a newt."
She turned me into a frog.
I got better.
I've seen two Mario Bava films; BLACK SUNDAY and PLANET OF THE VAMPIRES. I can see how black & white cinematography really helped the first movie. That, and Barbara Steele's spooky performance. One technique of Bava's that can get a little irritating after a while is the use of the dramatic zoom. He really seemed to like that technique, maybe just a little too much. PLANET OF THE VAMPIRES is interesting mostly for the overall look of the film and the fact that the makers of ALIEN cribbed many of the aspects of this picture, especially the giant alien skeletons found in the derelict spacecraft. The movie overall, however, seemed rather flat. There was a static feeling to it, even with the dramatic zooms.
I think Rob's right - Bava was a fine technician, good with atmosphere, but not a great director.
Chuck
The previous posting was brought to you by the King of Typos and the Pauper of Proofreading.
What a mess....but my point stands. I gotta calm down a bit when you guys get me chomskying at the bit!
-TODD
Geez Louise! You Goldang Libs are amazing. Now it's our fault that the expected, post-war, post removal of a torturing, killing dictator, looting a plundering of the people oppressed by such violence is the fault of the U.S.
Did you want the soldiers to shoot the Iraqis as they invaded the museum. What looting do they choose to break out the force for? Yes, please, go right into the palace but oops, get away from the museum or we blow out your brains? Even if the soldiers intervened peacefully they would have been criticized for interrupting the regime-deposing energy of the people who suffered all these years.
Yes, what happened at the museum is a shame....but it's spit in the wind compared to what happened the day Saddam left power. You didn't want the war anyway, so the following will fall on deaf ears: if the question came up before we sent Saddam fleeing, "Should we keep him in power at the cost of these relics?", I don't think any right minded person would say now.
Yep, youse guys can sit on back and wait with anticipation for something to go wrong....just way to point that finger at the U.S. again for fucking up somesuch thing in Iraq as the country now attempts to right itself in the world....enjoy. Monday morning quarterbacking, thy name is Liberalism.
-TODD
BTW, for the boredom alone it's inflicted on me over the years I despise Golf...in the way I despise liver, root canals, and the smell of farts. Always have, always will.
Just seemed like a pertinent point t'make.
I too was thoroughly upset, disgusted, and appalled by the plundering of that museum today. It recalled for me that dismal day several years ago when the Talaban eradicated the world's largest Buddha statues, one towering about 175 feet, dating 1500 years.
Our negligence reflects the detachment I sense in the Bush administration in post-war planning. I was, frankly, all for letting the civilians plunder Hussein's palaces. Seemed absolutely appropriate; the man, after all, had swindled his own country to indulge his excesses. Great wealth at the expense of the masses. All that property rightfully belongs to the Iraqis. But now, as the inevitable byproduct of mob mentality, some of the Iraqis are cutting their own throats - destroying their cultural heritage.
I cannot believe, even now, the treasures that got plundered. They included tablets of cuneiform writing that still had to be translated. Possibly the earliest samples in history of written language. Remnants of the cradle of civilization, for chrissake.
Y'know, there were international mandates designed to protect cultural property during conflict. It was established in the Hague in 1954. The U.S. and Britain didn't ratify them. We can worry about oil fields but we don't seem to give a flyin' fuck about a heritage that belongs not just to a nation but the entire human race.
An absolute debasement. I think it is by far the worst casualty of the war. It's a perfect metaphor for our ability to destroy ourselves given the opporunity.
...now to bigger and better things.
Ben,
I didn't grow up particularly fond of horror as a genre (invariably favoring sf and comedy above all others) but I've become inexplicably drawn to it more and more in recent years.
You are, as you've stressed, well-grounded in the Hammer shop of horrors. Throughout the same period Italy was having ITS horror renaissance in film too. Mario Bava, as you undoubedly know, ushered in the trend that put great, careful emphasis on atmosphere. I happen to think Bava is overrated as a director myself (in an article I once read, some lunatics tried to compare him to Fellini; incredibly pathetic. He was a good visualist because effects work and editing were his background. Yet he had many overt weaknesses; he was a good craftsman but hardly an artist). Nevertheless, he and others made gorgeous use of bw photography and they were a brilliant success in exploiting the international market. BLACK SUNDAY just about started it all, making the actress Barbara Steele into an international cult figure.
When I was a kid some of these Italian flicks were all over the tv airwaves. All of them with Steele. Because of unique multi-language dubbing methods, English translations were perfectly synched. So, the tracks weren't an embarrassing distraction for the viewer. As a result, a couple of these scared the shit out of me when I was around maybe 7 or 8 (believing that ghosts really existed definitely added to the effect). But it wasn't things jumping out of the dark that scared me or critters chawin' out yer throat, even though many of these films were filled with such campy poorly scripted cliches; it was the creepy atmosphere punctuated with moments of intense violence. Sharing a bit of Val Lewton, it was the kind of "subtly" visceral terror that would stick with you long after seeing the movie. It was like an irrisistable aversion sucking you into the claustrophobia of clammy shadows and haunting Freudian symbols.
...and what was largely crucial to this effect was the use of b&w photography. Shadows were SO consuming you would lose all sense of direction in the setting. Thus, b&w was intrinsic to the effect, interestingly making the Italian horror cycle a counterstatement in style to its British competitor.
Sooooooo...d'ya recall seein' any of those?
R. Wilder,
I'd say you chose the right book for your book club.
Frank,
Apologies if I implied - no, I did screw it up, you were merely repeating Mailer's erroneous statement. My apologies for my assumption.
As for Chmosky, output does not equal knowledge or understanding or compassion. His hatred for everything capitalistic overshadows his good intentions and turns his writings into a black ball of hatred.
BUT
We can share one joy in the world, and that is the fun sounds of White Stripes. Accidentally caught them last year opening for Veruca Salt at the Metro and fell in love with their crazy wild garage sounds. They know they're not the greatest band on the planet and they enjoy it. Wacky, goofy, amatuer as hell, and more fun than anything besides a Trail Of Our Dead concert.
Regards,
Joseph
*** Eric ***
Not that Frank can't or shouldn't speak for himself but there is no conflict between despising golf and loving the common man. Golf has always been an aristocratic and exclusive pastime. I suppose it's inclusive in the sense that it doesn't require any physical stamina beyond toning some select muscles on the driving range. Any budding heart attack or stroke victim can book a tee time as long as he can get a membership and afford the green fees and the gear and lord help him, the clothes. But historically it's always been exclusive if you were black, female, Jewish, Latino or even at or below middle-class. Not that we live in a class society. [snort]
- Barney
ps. Not liking Republican neo-cons and golf is a far cry from not liking anything.
>Golf is not only stupid but immoral. It uses way too much land, and water, and is played by mostly elite fuck nut Republicans. <
No-one asked you, Frank. You never have anything nice to say about anything anyway. For someone who professes such a love for the common man, you display a rather astonishing lack of kindness and generosity of spirit in everything you post.
If you think you score points here, with your hagiographic lifts from Chomsky and your own sweeping generalizations on all things cultural, you're wrong. You're just another hostile, unhappy pest, who through your own unlovely presentation does far more harm to the causes you support than good.
You must all see this.
The whole war is worth it just for this.
http://www.welovetheiraqiinformationminister.com/index.html
I dare you not to laugh your ass off.
I read this sad story about how the antiquity museum in Baghdad was destroyed, while our so-called heros just let it happen. All those treasures destroyed. They looted and destroyed their own stuff? Amazing stuff that Indiana Jones would have gasped at. This last bit is pungent, and definetly makes it known why this war was wrong:
""You are American!" a woman shouted at me in English yesterday morning, wrongly assuming I was from the US.
"Go back to your country. Get out of here. You are not wanted here. We hated Saddam and now we are hating Bush because he is destroying our city." It was a mercy she could not visit the Museum of Antiquity to see for herself that the very heritage of her country
- as well as her city - has been destroyed."
---Robert Fisk, from the Independant, London.
My favorite Ballard books:
1)Crash
2)Empire of the Sun
3)Running Wild
4)The Drowned World
5)The Unlimited Dream Company
6)Vermilion Sands
7)Concrete Island
8)Terminal Beach
9)Memories of the Space Age
10)Crystal World
Now, except for a little spilling of the seed in #5, #1 is the only volume that contains any level of perversity.
Frank: I'm genuinely surprised at your disdain for Ballard. He is a truly radical writer with a unique vision.
I love Nature, love being on water, in the woods, camping, hiking or just lying about. But I love walking around my small city, too. Until a few years ago, my downtown used to close down after rush hour, and was completely shut-down over the weekend, save for a handful of bars. I would walk block after block of deserted concrete, empty looking buildings, bare parking lots and ramps, feeling like the last man on earth. Those moments were "Ballardian." Humankind's relationship with technology and environment are examined in Ballard's work in wholly unique ways. If you've only read "Crash" and were put off by the perversity, I suggest you give him another chance. He's worth it.
Yo, Baggo Scotto, check this out:
"The latest film by Canadian director David Cronenberg, "Crash" is not exactly about bondage; an ice-cold, sadomasochistic linkage of sex and pain is more its game. And the result is so far from being involving or compelling, so intentionally disconnected from any kind of recognizable emotion, that by comparison David Lynch's removed "Lost Highway" plays like "Lassie Come Home.""
---Kenneth Turin
Frank: I second your recommendation on White Stripe's "Elephant." Great record! A bit different, but also excellent, is "Summer Sun" by Yo La Tengo, which is much mellower, a wash of melodies, feedback, and indie-pop tunes.
On the Jazz front, there are two progressive groups that have new records out. The Bad Plus is a very different piano trio, with versions of "Smells Like Teen Spirit" and "Heart of Glass" on their debut "These Are The Vistas" on Columbia. Vandermark 5 is a Chicago based outfit whose leader Ken Vandermark was awarded a MacArthur gift. They have a cool new disc out on Atavistic entitled "Airports for Light." Avante-garde jazz based more on melody and composition, rather than free-blowin' dissonance. I'm diggin' em.
Oh, and if Country is your bag, there's a nifty anthology of previously released vinyl singles on CD entitled "Making Singles, Drinking Doubles" from the renegade Bloodshot label. Real Country for real people, with folks like Neko Case, Ryan Adams, Jon Langford, The Sadies, Robbie Fulks and such.
Wilder, are you sure this wasn't a soccer riot?
You must remember all the years that Miller's Tropic Of Cancer created the same ruckus. Except the obvious fact that Miller destroyed Ballard as a writer. I will say that controversy alone is never enough. Except for Eminem it seems. Lol.
I used to work for a large bookstore for just under six years and we had an employee bookclub, with participants taking turns choosing a book. I chose "Crash." Usually we'd meet at a pub once a month and quietly discuss what we'd read. With "Crash," though, the group erupted into combustion. Yelling, screaming, throwing silverware, punching, clawing, our group descended into brute violence. Mild-mannered middle-aged bookworms, normally calm, transformed into writhing red-faced berserkers, spittle flying. Demure young college coeds, devotees of Oates, Lessing and Atwood, grew shrill and freakish. Barrel-chested, thumping Hemingway and Faulkner men trembled in horror. Even the Beat followers howled their outrage. If memory serves, everyone hated me for choosing "Crash."
No, Joseph, I agree that a book can have any kind of charactor, and that sometimes weak charactors overcoming great odds make for the most important statement or ideal. Mailer is full of gas as usual; I just thought it was an odd thing for a writer of his stature to write.
-------
Diana, I highly regard the new White Stripes album, Elephant. It received the coveted FIVE star rating from Rolling Stone. You and your young lad might enjoy it. A mixture of Led Zepellin/Stones rock blues meet post punk pop. Masterful.
Frank, in regards to your question:
Why not ask Dostoyevsky?
BTW, waste a few bucks and find copies of "The Atrocity Exhibition" and "Crash". Read them. Understand what Ballard has to say, then come back and discuss. It's not about wackos jacking off at fender-benders; it's much more.
Going Home, Scott
Frank,
Two points you mentioned, two points dismissed:
1) "Crash" no more celebrates people sexually obsessed with car crashes than "Casablanca" celebrates Vichy collaboraters. I don;t think anyone could successfully, and logically, argue that the film or book celebrate this group of sad little people.
2) Mailer is dead wrong, unless you've massively misquoted him (perhaps the actual quote, please?) Witness Shakespeare, Milton, Goethe, Carver, Ellison, Boyle, Oates, etc, etc; all creators of great art about little people. Hell, ignore all that and read "Night and the City," and you'll see what I mean in spades.
Regards,
Joseph
Diana wrote;
>>If for some reason you decide to discontinue this internet site, I'd really appreciate it if you didn't keep on saying things that suggest that it would have been my fault that you decided to do so. Assuming that you were addressing me in that last post, that's just what you implied. I think making such an accusation is excessive, outrageous, and unfair. To say the least.<<
I don't.
To say even leaster.
- Barney
Bern, I agree with you, but won't go into it now. You are a smart guy, and a good writer. And I know you do not need any self esteem peptalk from the likes of me. Lol.
Frank; you asked a question at the end of your last post.
My answer: No.
But then again - nobody would mistake me for a great writer, now, would they?
Bern
Well remember that Tyson didn't win his fights because of smarts, but because of just having some really steel hard fists. He may be considered an intellect in some other dimension that considers ear biting to be the best way to ace any SAT test.
------------
Golf is not only stupid but immoral. It uses way too much land, and water, and is played by mostly elite fuck nut Republicans. And I hold golf largely responsible for fucking up Alice Coopers song writing.
I like Carlin's bit on golf, where he says that maybe the golf coarses should be given to homeless people to pitch tents on.
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Dead Ringers is Cronenberg's best film by far; and Crash is real trash. People who get off on car crashed should be bumped into obscurity, not celebrated.
Strangely, ABC's The Practice had a better, and sicker Fetish on one of their shows: One episode had Henry Winkler, of all people, as a man who is accused murder, and later it is found out that he gets off by masterbating while watching woman step on cockroaches; I kid you not. But my one question about this "alternative lifestyle choice" is, does the woman still provide a relevent turn on, even with unshaved legs? And what if the cockroach lives?
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Two Chomsky books in one month! You can tell I am in pinko heaven here. Does that motherfucker ever sleep? You have to admit Joseph--you playa hater you-- that man works his butt off.
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In Norman Mailers new book, The Spooky Art: Thoughts On Writing, he makes the point that to be a great author you must always strive to create charactors who are better, more noble, or stronger than said author. Anyone agree?
LYNN,
'Chess with fists'? How can you think strategically -let alone coherently- while having your face pummeled?
Then again, I haven't seen GIRLFIGHT, so maybe I wouldn't know...
Geez, I leave a topic I think has precious little mileage in it, and find opuses can be written.
Well, the subject can outdistance writing about the flea...
Right, rich, it ain't chess, but its strategy is much more intricate that some are lead to believe. "The Sweet Science" isn't just about the use of brute force, or the issue of stamina, but those who were and are the best were folks of rmearkable intellect, and they had to be. Coming at a southpaw forces a fighter to rethink the entire plan, as jabbing and counterpunching can become quite difficult. Size, reach, movement, jabbing and punching tactics force boxers to re-evaluate their opponent and themselves on a round by round basis at times. And there is clock management, knowing how much you have in the tank, and how to use it.
And, history does respect those who did have the genius for the ring. Ali showed constantly that he was no dummy, except in his decision to say too long in the game. Marciano, Sugar Ray Robinson, Marvin Hagler were as successful as they were due to their ability to size up opponents, alter tactics as needed, and go for the throat, often doing it with an incredible ease. Conversely, it'll also show Tyson for what he was, being a one-punch thug who won belts from bums, never truly knowing how to box.
No, we're not talking about quantum theory, and you're quite correct in saying "it ain't chess", but it isn't simply the cunning logic of survival, either.
Scott, who honestly believes that George Chuvalo at his best could easily pound Tyson into 200-odd (and I emphase ODD) pounds of pidgeon feed.
that's "mental chumps"...see what I get for writing while feeding the baby?
How could boxing POSSIBLY be like chess when it has mental champions like Tyson among its champions?
Lynn,
Let me see if I can clarify my comments from what seemed to me to be a somewhat light-hearted post on my part. You're reading way too much into my initial post and attributing meanings that just aren't there.
I reiterate: Boxing is not "chess, with fists". In no way shape or form did I make mention that mental stamina is not required in boxing. In no way shape or form did I mention that I "look down" on those that enjoy boxing or wrestling or whatever sport it was said I denigrated. In no way shape or form did I mention that wrestlers were not athletes. In no way shape or form did I "underestimate the level of dedication" these guys (and gals) have.
I reiterate: Boxing is not "chess, with fists".
I am quite aware that boxers and wrestlers are athletes. I am also quite aware that boxing and wrestling (amateur wrestling; professional wrestling has nothing to do with true wrestling and has nothing to do with winning or losing) require mental and physical stamina. I am quite aware that the mental aspect of boxing, as in ALL sports, is far more important than the physical aspect. Despite what we're led to believe from televsion and movies, fights don't last that long because most people 1) don't know how to fight, and 2) can't keep up the pace in a fight. So once the physical threshold has been reached, those that can WILL their way to keep going usually win.
However, despite the ability of someone to throw a punch and despite the ability of someone to dodge a punch or take a blow, boxing is not chess. There is no other strategy involved than knowing how the other guy fights and what your best bet is in countering that other boxer's ability, especially if you have more weaknesses than the other boxer. All sports have strategy involved, but we don't go around saying that "xxx is like chess", or trying to elevate a particular sport to a lofty position to somehow make that sport legitimate when no such effort is needed. Boxing is a sport. Football is a sport. Wrestling, both pro and amateur, is a sport. Golf is a sport. Any activity that requires physical and mental stamina in the pursuit of 'winning' is more than likely a sport. However, to compare one sport to another is apples and oranges and any such comparison should be met with skepticism and a large grain of salt.
I do not say this to denigrate boxing, but only to point out that boxing is not chess.
"Why is it that if physical violence is involved in a sport, the possibility of having a mental component in the sport becomes completely unimaginable?"
I said no such thing and didn't even imply any such thing. Anyone who has been involved in physical violence KNOWS this.
BUT IT AIN'T CHESS.
Figuring out the best way to tackle a landscaping job ain't chess. Figuring out the best way to handle a skidding car ain't chess. Figuring out the best way to spike that volleyball ain't chess.
And the list goes on.
Lynn,
I'd also recommend the documentary "On the Ropes," about three boxers (one of them female) getting ready for the Golden Gloves, and the whole society of amatuer boxing. Fabulous stuff.
Regards,
Joseph
Rich~
Why is it that if physical violence is involved in a sport, the possibility of having a mental component in the sport becomes completely unimaginable?
Do you know how much physical training goes into being able to withstand ten rounds of punishment? Do you know how much focus and timing it takes to be able to keep a speed bag in motion? To learn the balance and physiokinetics it takes to throw a punch? These athletes (yes, even Tyson) have a mental stamina and focus I would KILL for as a writer.
BTW, professional wrestlers are also athletes. Just because you don't enjoy the sport (and perhaps because you look down on those that do), don't underestimate the level of dedication and focus, the amount of drive it takes to be an athlete of that caliber.
L.
Lynn,
"It's chess, with fists."
You're kidding, right? I mean, I'm sure Tyson aced his SATs and Frazier was penning poetry in his spare time and LaMotta was really into the theories behind Relativity, but professional boxing is NOT "chess, with fists".
I'll give you the Olympics and some amateur boxing as having some strategy involved, but professional boxing has as much to do with "chess" as professional wrestling has to do with...well, wrestling.
I personally don't give a left jab one way or the other when it comes to boxing, but let's not get too carried away.
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