**Making a decision based on a gut feeling is a very important skill, even for Ph.D's. The fact of the matter is that not every situation you get into will allow you the time or the resources to research all possible outcomes. Sometimes being able to make a decision based on gut feel alone comes in very handy. **
Sure it does. It doesn't have to be an all-or-nothing issue, though.
Empirical reason need not breed automatons. There are no Spocks in real life. The most rational person in the world still needs to make decisions every day with less information than he or she would like to have.
That doesn't mean you can't still try to observe and analyze the facts as best you can and make what you consider to be the most logical decision.
My mechanic may be able to listen to my engine and intuitively know exactly what's wrong with it. The intuition is based largely on his own experiences and knowledge, though. However, if he can't tell just by the sound, I would very much prefer he use rational methods to isolate the problem. I'd much rather see him use more standard diagnostic tools than a ouija board.
If I'm having bad headaches, I would greatly prefer my doctor to recommenda CATscan before considering trepanning as a treatment option.
Kerry- Now that was an evil thing to do - fairly challenging me with a story idea so that it bounces around in my head and insists on being relayed through my fingertips. I've spent the last hour tapping out the story and have finally finished, eyes threatening to shut on me. E-mail me if ya wanna see what you caused! *hee*
--Dotty
--Zoë Rose
Cindiana Jones,
Got the screenplay, safe and sound. It'll be a week before I can read it, then I'll dive in.
Chuck
Rich~ I think you hit the nail on the head with the 'path of least resistance' argument.
Lurk~ You ever work in retail? You'll get over that 'people aren't stupid' trip in a heartbeat. Very soon after, you'll realize that by merely intellectualizing such concepts, you yourself are one of the very elitists you claim to despise. Now, go work on a budget and get over yourself. You think too much.
Chris~ Book learning goes a long way. Street smarts go a long way too. Making a decision based on a gut feeling is a very important skill, even for Ph.D's. The fact of the matter is that not every situation you get into will allow you the time or the resources to research all possible outcomes. Sometimes being able to make a decision based on gut feel alone comes in very handy. That being said, I think expecting politicians (who jig and jive on the latest poll like a dead man twisting on the gallows tree) to make informed decisions is just silly. George Dubya makes the motions with his mouth because some puppet master has a hand up his ass. If you watch, sometimes you can even see his words synch up with his lips. His decisions don't prevent scientists from doing their research either in this country illegally or in other countries, just as his opinions don't prevent me from practicing my faith (unless of course I'm in the military, but that's a whole 'nother can of worms).
And if you're an skeptic and an elitist, what the fuck are you doing moving to La La Land? This town is all about plastic - who's got it in their wallet, who's got in their face, who's got it in their ass.
Rich pt2~ I wish Webderland had a mirror for these quotes: "Power, like drugs and penises, can be abused." Classic, my friend. Right up there with one of our all time favorites, "Well, it's hardly the first time I've been on fire."
L.
XANADU
What grammatical impropriety? I recently saw some bone head place adversity where aversion belonged!
God what an IDIOT I felt like! Errr I mean, what an idiot she looked like.
lol!
You, Sir, have no reason to apologize about a miniscule grammatical faux pas. WE ALL know that you KNOW what is what.
Your friend,
Cindy
PS I'm elbow deep in rewrite # 8 and finding more and more to help me in your notes. I feel like you just gave me a bigger box of colors-- 64 crayons to work with rather than the 24 I had previously believed to be all I needed. Thanks again, buddy.
Actually, Kerry, I'm pretty sure I don't agree with Lurk at all. In fact, I'm quite sure of it. And while it's absolutely nothing personal toward Lurk to whom I bear no ill will whatsoever, I wouldn't want it to be thought I agreed with him at all.
The whole "you all agree, you just have different points of view" is just another brand of the intellectual relativism I feel is far too prevalent in our society.
There's a right and a wrong. We don't always know which is which but sometimes we do. The obsession with "acknowledging everyone's point of view" is just new-age, P.C. nonsense.
All IMHO, of course.:)
Thanks Heather,
That sounds like the same advice I gave her. I appreciate it.
:)
Alex Jay Berman,
My mom worked for the Veteran's Administration.. that's part of the irony that she's a deceased veteran's widow. She's been through the EEO and they haven't done much. The Union wimped out too. Maybe it's hard for some people to get fired up about defending the rights of a little old lady. When the bastards got her alone in their office to fire her they wanted her to sign something and she said she wouldn't sign anything. She said she intended to fight it.
Jim Davis,
THANK YOU.
:)
HELZ,
I told her what you said and I think it gave her heart. I'm with you, the documentation is enough to sink a barge.
LITTLE WASHU,
THANK YOU TOO! I am now dying to see THE LAST LAUGH.
:)
ALEX KRISLOV
I hope you're wrong. Boy, do I hope you're wrong on this one.
But I do understand the truth in what you wrote.
GUNTHER, ROB, JAY AND XANADU, I Love you all for being so sweet.
THANK YOU ALL!!!!!!!!
Cindy
"My science phone conversation of the week"
Me: So then the other person at the table said, "I was surprised. I thought the fifth element was boron. That, and the movie sucked."
Friend who has a doctorate: Well, I guess it would be, alphabetically.
Me: Hunh?
FWHAD: Boron's the fifth element alphabetically. The periodic table's arranged alphabetically, right?
Me: Didn't you take chemistry in high school?
FWHAD: No. I didn't take any science after Grade Nine. My math's really bad, too.
Oh, well. At least we got to discuss elements for ten minutes.
Jon
Chris L,
It's true, I have attacked "reason" to make my tepid point. But I'm not really against reason. I'm against being against unreason. I know that many here froth when they hear someone stand up and say humans descended from angels, not apes. So be it. But I froth when I hear "reason" put forth as the smug, oh-so-obvious answer to everything. It DOESN'T serve one every time, although it certainly is nice to have around.
But let's give the commons a break, when they turn to the psychic phonelines or go to Whitley Streiber seminars. They are not, finally, the problem. They are not the ones who will send your sons to Iraq or stripmine your hillside. I'd say the rage is better directed at the ones who should know better, not the ones who don't know at all.
Chris L and Lurk
I have to agree with Lynn here. In your efforts to make your points, and hardening your resolve to do so, you seem to be receding from the fact that you basically agree with each other. I think you just look at it from different points of view.
Joseph Finn
Thank you for the information regarding the Nebula Awards
Zoe dot dot
Astronomy, astrology and the alignments of three planets affecting the sleep of children. To me it sounds like a story waiting to be written.
Rich
Your version of the chair analogy reminds me of a real example, that of wearing a baseball cap backwards. I know they dont do a good job of keeping the sun off anyway, but backwards is just silly.
Random Musings from my chair
Kerry
Lurk,
You buy into the same false dichotomy so many others do.
Valuing reason does not make a person heartless or unimaginative. I embrace the scientific method but I am awed by the sight of the setting sun on a breezy May evening in the Badlands of South Dakota.
I hear echoes of your sentiment in my baseball work. It usually takes the form of "Why don't you eggheads stop studying numbers and watch a game every now and then?" As if analyzing something means a person can't enjoy it the way it's meant to be enjoyed.
Isaac Asimov was a genius and a great man of reason. He also took the time to collect some of the best and some of the lamest jokes in the world in his Treasury of Humor.
Reason doesn't preclude joy. Science is not the enemy of the emotions. You've set up a straw man here and you're getting nowhere with it.
Chris L,
I don't know about "intellectual relativism," but I doubt I embrace it. What I do embrace, and where you and I clearly differ, is that I don't necessarily want the "best and the brightest" in charge of everything. The best and the brightest, in my experience, are just as likely to fuck up as anyone else, and if they've been sanctified by society as being the best, and it's gone to their heads, which it usually does, they're even more likely to screw up on a scale that is often difficult to undo.
I have enough faith in the final authority of the human heart to not panic if the cranks and the wackos occasionally get their turn at the wheel. I can't imagine anything more boring (and probably dangerous) than a society run by eminently reasonable men and women. A kingdom of logicians, all markedly qualified in their highly-specialized fields...hey, maybe we'll even genetically engineer them someday.
That is the final turn in your utopia, Chris. A people free from the motivations of murder, chaos, and orgy. No more dancing round the maypole, no more blessings of baptism, no more divine madness. These things, should they fund your imagination, are just as valid as the big fat facts everyone is trumpeting as manna when informing your decisions.
So I'll take the warlock over the engineer anyday. I've seen the society Encyclopedia Man built these past 100 years, and I think the crystal fools could do nothing but help it.
I think the world's days are limited as I will now seek to defend Frank's use of the word "herd" and basically, jump all up and down on Lurk, a denizen of webderland I usually find intelligent (but, not at the moment).
It appears Lurk doesn't like the word "elitism" as it conjures up images of people abusing power and/or not using their intelligence or reason for the right...um...reasons. Given a choice between choosing the herd (those that go along with the rest of society without bothering to think of the consequences) or the elitists (those that gather the facts and come to a conclusion without worrying what everyone else is doing), I'm choosing the elitists every single time.
Look: Most people are not stupid. Some will beg to differ on this point, but most people are not stupid. People, like fluids, will take the path of least resistance. If it's easier to go along with everyone else and not cause waves or rock the boat or (insert cliche here) then most folks will do that. They don't have time to worry about the difference between astrology or astronomy because how is that going to help pay the bills? People aren't stupid, they're just lazy.
The elitists will take the time to figure out the difference between astrology and astronomy because it may not pay the bills, but it gives them knowledge. And as Saturday morning Schoolhouse Rocks taught me, knowledge is power. Power, like drugs and penises, can be abused, but for the most part, I think the elitists of the world are trying to work at separating themselves from the herd and trying to use their knowledge to tell us that astrology is superstition and has nothing to do with our lives whereas astronomy lets us know our place in the universe.
So, Lurk, I think identifying the herd is not a bad thing. Contrary to popular opinion some of us are better than others as mediocrity appears to be the norm. You don't have to work at being mediocre so I have no problems being associated with elitism.
One last thing. Lurk sarcastically mentions that the world would be a better place if we just used reason to govern ourselves. I would agree with that statement minus the sarcasm. The world would indeed be a better place if we used reason to govern ourselves. Just because we make decisions based on our gut (and I'm assuming you're not being ironic when you state that "we regret half of them later"; you don't include Bush's "gut" call as being one those regretful decisions?) doesn't mean we shouldn't rule out reason because in the end, reason will always serve you.
Xanadu,
You're welcome. I'm gonna use it 'til I can't use it no more.
Holy crud - please ignore the complete lack of grammatical ability exhibited by my last post...
rich: Thank's for keeping my little conceit alive - I laugh evry time someone mentions it...
Lurk,
I used the term "intellectual relativism" before and it seems to me it's something you fully embrace.
I hate to tell you this but there really are people in the world who know better than other people. Chances are overwhelming I know morethan you do about baseball. It is even more certain (as in 100%) that Stephen Hawking knows more about astronomy than I do.
My opinion on astronomy or related issues is NOT as good as Dr. Hawking's. It is inferior. If I take one position and he says I'm wrong, I'm willing to bet the bank that he's in the right. Why? He knows better. He's smarter and he has the facts.
Who do I want making the decisions in the world? The best and the brightest. The most qualified. That doesn't mean only academicians and intellectuals. The best and brightest person to make a decision about my car is my mechanic. He needs to decide what to do when fixing my car, not me. I don't know enough. I don't have the knowledge. I don't have the skill. I don't have the facts. He does.
I am definitely an elitist by that standard. I think that for any particular issue, most people are completely unqualified to offer a useful opinion or to make a decision. I'd still support their right to do it under most circumstances but that's not the optimal strategy for a functioning society.
On Astrology: My main problem with 'beliefs' like that of astrology is that it completely puts the blame or praise on events we can't control - celestial stuff. I suppose that really is like any religion... I suppose that's why I'm not real religious.
For the most part, I figure let people have fun with what they want to believe. Personally? Doesn't do it for me. But hey, whatever floats their boats.
Warning- Going off on a tangent...
MY problem with it is that people don't know the difference between astrology and astronomy, nor do many care. I work in a planetarium, and it's hard to keep a straight face when answering the questions of the chaperoning parents of a third grade class: "So I heard on the news that there are three planets in the sky right now. When they align will that affect the children's dreams?" Or some such nonsense.
It's even harder to answer the question that I've gotten from more adults than kids, when the lights are all out and the stars are up: "Ok, so where's Earth?"
People often come up to me after star shows and ask if I'm an astrologer. It takes a long time to convince them I'm not an astrologer at all, nor do I take any stock in what astrology says.
Believe what makes you happy, I say - but don't let it dumb you to the point of not understanding simple things like the difference between astronomy and astrology - though both are highly theoretical, at least one of makes an attempt to explain things.
Sorry 'bout the rant. The astrology thing just gets on my nerves sometimes.
--Zoë Rose
>When a President who doesn't know anything about the subject determines national policy regarding cloning, people might die.<
I'm gonna defend the usually defenseless here, and cast my vote of appreciation that Dubya is making a decision based on his own moral compass. Whether or not you think it's a stupid decision, sometimes people make the calls from their gut, not from the balance sheet of facts and figures. Bush feels cloning is immoral for his own and his consituency's spiritual reasons. That must be respected. That's actually leadership, from one who is generally considered unable to lead.
A big step towards balance is understanding that reason in the end doesn't always serve you. I'd wager that any of the really important life decisions made by anyone here were completely devoid of reason. That's why we regret half of them later...
>My point, however, is that way too many people don't even know how to think in the first place<
Elitism. It's both cozy and happily isolating, isn't it, to believe that one is a member of the select few who THINK. And it's sure easy to shake our heads at the witless saps who don't require EVIDENCE at every turn.
Unfortunately, elitists are often on the sidelines of history, doing nothing but bitching about how stupid everyone is and if we just used REASON all of our problems would be solved.
Um, Frank, once the conversation moves into the realm of calling people "herds," I back out. Herds usually require pens, and thinking one is grander than the sheep leads to delusions, and occasionally, if one has power, actions. You're in good company with history there.
I can just imagine what things would be like if the we the denizens of Webderland ran the world. Corraling those thinkless herds, so to speak. Judging from the weekly flame wars on this board, we see little more than a lot of screaming about how stupid everyone is and if we just used REASON all of our problems....never mind.
I'm gonna have to go with Lynn on this one: You boys are preaching to the choir.
"That chair is made to sit on."
"Yeah, but some people sit on it backards."
"They're entitled to sit on it any way they please."
"Yeah, but the chair is made for people to sit properly; what'll happen if everyone turns their chair around and starts sittin' on 'em backards?"
"They'll be comfortable?"
"Well, reasonable people sit aright."
"Sittin' backards don't hurt me none."
"Well, pretty soon people wanna be leanin' in 'em, too. Then where will we be? That's right. Them legs'll get weak and won't be right for sittin' right nohow."
Thanks to the Chair Analogy as the hole it's in continues to get deeper.
Chris: " My point, however, is that way too many people don't even know how to think in the first place."
They never did, at any point in our history. And to cap it off, they likely never will. Most people don't WANT to think - and you can lead them horses to all the scientific/rational water you wish and they will refuse to take that drink.
This is not to say we shouldn't strive to educate all who are willing, but don't despair too seriously because most prefer idiocy.
Chris, you have an affecting effect on me.
Jim,
Affect/Effect still drives me ape shit.
I don't think I'll ever figure it out.
It's my kryptonite.
Lynn,
Sure I want people to think for themselves. My point, however, is that way too many people don't even know how to think in the first place. Either through their own inability or through a fault in their education, they were never given the tools to properly evaluate the world in which they live, how to separate fact from fiction, science from nonsense.
Oops. I meant to write "the stars in their courses DO affect us," not "effect." (See, David--I'm hardly a grammar maven, either.)
NOW it's time for dinner.
Chris~ So what you're saying is you want people to stop being sheep and think for themselves, yes? Take a number, the line forms to the left.
Jim~ Don't track mud on the carpet, keep your hands to yourself, and make sure to say thank you to the nice Mr. Wyatt for letting you make a mess of his livingroom.
::sigh::
L.
It's all about proof. Evidence.
The problems crop up when people base their decisions on something other than evidence.
It's an attitude I (and everyone else) encounter(s) every day.
"Willie Mays was hurt by his home park. He'd have hit more home runs than Aaron if he played somewhere else - that was a terrible ballpark."
"But Mays hit more home runs at home than on the road. And his Giants' teammates as well as their opponents hit just about as many home runs there as they did on the road. There's no evidence whatsoever to suggest it was a bad home run park."
"I don't care about any of that - I know what I saw. That was a terrible home run park."
Now that's pretty harmless. Nobody is likely to be harmed because somebody makes a mistake in their perception of a baseball stadium. The problem is the way they go about making decisions and forming opinions. The facts don't matter. They just want to believe what they want to believe. That's what's dangerous.
"Blacks are inferior to whites."
"There's no evidence to suggest that's true."
"I don't care, I still think it's true."
I'm not claiming we can know everything or even 1% of everything. We don't and we never will. But if we don't aspire to make our decisions rationally, by studying the evidence available to us as best we can, we're in serious trouble.
When the AMA gives out shoddy diet advice based much less on hard evidence than it is on money and political expediency, people die.
When a President who doesn't know anything about the subject determines national policy regarding cloning, people might die.
I strongly recommend Carl Sagan's _Demon Haunted World_ for a great read on this very subject.
Oh Mom, WE'RE JUST PLAYIN'. (Next you're gonna tell us to get washed up fer dinner. Are we havin' spaghetti tonight? Can Bobby stay over? His Mom said it was ok. Huh, can he?)
(Actually, I DO have to get something to eat, now that I mention it...)
Lurk wrote: "The superstitious unwashed that you seem to fear had little to do with designing tanks, gas chambers, or nuclear weaponry. Nor were the decisions to use these toys prompted by casting rune stones or reading star charts."
To a certain extent, that's true. Technology and science HAVE been employed towards some pretty heinous ends. But were the Death Camps, for example, REALLY the result of rational thinking? You could argue the opposite, that the MOTIVATIONS behind them were based solely in superstition and fear. The belief that Jews were a bacillus and needed to be exterminated for the good of civilization sounds pretty irrational to me.
Hey you guys. Tone it down a smidge. You're getting all toasty about something you agree on, that life-changing decisions shouldn't be made based on the position of distant celestial bodies. Anyone that does so is setting themselves up for a fall. Science is a tool, and as such, is merciless in the hands of the merciless.
At least you guys don't have to put up with a President who thinks your religion isn't "real." (Translation: My beliefs are religion, yours are superstitious hogwash. Thank you for that lesson in logic, Dubya.)
L.
Astrology isn't based on sound reasoning, and that is the point, I'd think. Things that are anti-reason should be given a once over--especially, if we do actually live in a sceptical nation.
There is a lot of proof that Astrology is bunkum, but the herd swallows the divining coin anyway. See, we LIKE to believe in things in this country; even if those things are beyond rational thinking. And you don't have to be a Sceptic to understand this.
LURK: I DO agree the nonsensical, the mystical, and the absurd have a place in our lives. Hell, I wouldn't read sf/fantasy if I didn't. But I have to go with Chris on this: When nonrational beliefs start influencing decisions on public policy, it's time to be worried. Call me a fool, but I'd rather have Spock than Nostradamus running the show--at least there's some basis for dialogue with the former. If leaders believe that they're getting marching orders from the the Heavens, why should they listen to ANYONE here on Earth? (See the latest response of the Catholic Church to the molestation crisis.)
>Ignorance is not something to embrace and it isn't harmless<
Chris L, maybe I'm reading this the wrong way. But last I looked, the vast swaths of warfare and destruction that our past century endured, including the mass murder of countless millions of innocents, was conducted by well-educated individuals, many with advanced degrees in science and math.
The superstitious unwashed that you seem to fear had little to do with designing tanks, gas chambers, or nuclear weaponry. Nor were the decisions to use these toys prompted by casting rune stones or reading star charts.
It also took a fair degree of brains and expensive college educations to trash the environment with air, water, and land pollution, mow down the rainforests, drive numerous species into extinction, and poison everyone's immune systems for probably the next century. This was all done with a calculator, not a crystal ball.
To suggest that elections are going to be taken over by professed UFO abductees and creationists seems to me a pretty weak argument. Given these past actions by our friends in the Ivy League, and their counterparts in Europe, could it have been any worse?
Jim, I wasn't defending astrology as a subsitute for science. What I was defending was the right of nonsensical, the mystical, and the absurd to not be heralded as the downfall of humanity. Along with our formulas and theorems, we must also live with our demons and our shadows.
Now, one can climb into the ring waving their copy of "The Skeptical Inquirer," but should they expect any more leverage with the final judgement than the goon with the Bible or the dude with the guitar? Rationalism and its scientific tropes have done wondrous things, expecially for commerce, health care, and the national defense, but when it comes to explaining the human heart, and its ongoing wrassle between passion and despair, it's as worthless as week-old toast.
So yeah, I get a little honked when I'm told my brains are falling to the floor because I'm no more threatened by the nitwits who believe the Earth is flat than I am the great white fathers who promote the efficacy of controlled nuclear theaters. I personally am growing a little weary of running to the math book for every answer, and I don't think having Spock and the Professor from Gilligan's Island running the show is going to make things any better.
Viva Lunacy.
The problem, Xanadu, is not that Joe Schmo in Walla Walla believes in astrology. It's that Joe Schmo likes to vote for people who "think like him" which means that we wind up with a country where the people who make decisions that impact our lives are unqualified to do so. Science policy is determined by panels of Congresspersons ignorant of even the most basic scientific principles.
Ignorance is not something to embrace and it isn't harmless. We live in a unique time in the sense that we now have developed the capacity to destroy our own race or at least very large swaths of it with relative ease. This is not the time to hunked down on our haunches and tremble in fear at the thunderbolts angry gods cast down at us.
I'll briefly follow up my 'just plain sick SOBs' statement. I'm referring to the men and women that have a perfectly decent childhood, a strong morale upbringing, a good job, a loving husband/wife and kids...
...and yet skinning little children alive in their basements remains their favourite hobbies alongside golf and sailing.
LURK: The thing is, the stars in their courses DO effect us in some way, and scientists know why. It's called gravity, and it states that every bit of matter in the universe exerts its pull, however small, on living beings here on Earth. (And vice versa).
The problem is, that's not what astrology says. It claims that a specific alignment of celestial bodies in the sky can determine our personalities, our behaviors, and even whether we live or die. And that simply has no scientific validity. There's not one shred of proof that people born under a particular astrological sign differ in any way from the rest of the population. Now, we can call a belief in astrology harmless and fun, and I'd (mostly) agree. But should we deny the lack of evidence for it, and claim that it has an equal footing with astronomy, cosmology, or any of the other hard sciences?
FRANK:
"I have always wondered why America creates so many serial killers in the first place"
Well, overpopulation could have a lot to do with it, but that's as tired an argument as the 'evil media' excuse. You don't have to look any farther than China to see how sparse America is in comparison. I really do believe most serial killers have been treated like shit for the majority of their lives, suffering non-stop abuse, humiliation and belittlement a la Ben Stiller in MEET THE PARENTS until the urge to remove some people's faces becomes incredibly dominant.
And then, of course, some of them are just plain sick SOBs.
LW (Benjamin A.A. Winfield)
If you can see astrology (or any divinatory system) as a tool, take from it what you need, be it entertainment or spiritual sustenance, it is not the end of civilization as we know it. If you start planning where to aim the bombs as a direct result of the alignment of Saturn in Sagittarius, then you're whacked. Such things are merely reflections of what we take into them. What is the quote? A monkey can look into a mirror but should not expect a saint to peer back at him?
L.
Just a quick thought – I agree with Lurk, we're not gonna die because our species is full of folk who live life intuitively, rather than rationally or logically. Has there ever really been an "Age of Reason"? Where a significant majority of the general populace has had more than a passing notion of science and the scientific method? I could be wrong, but I don't think so.
BUT, I 'm not worried for the reason Chris L. states – we don't get to vote on reality. Whether _I_, or anyone else, believes in dark matter, or anti-gravity, or anti-matter, or astrology doesn't change what's actually going on out there. Reality IS.
What scares the hell outta me is when the tin-foil-helmet-people gain control of scientific funding and science education, when the idjits try to warp our perception of reality, or bend the principles of the scientific method to advance a predetermined agenda - THEN we're fucked. It's one thing for an individual to champion a far-out theory, it's another altogether for a society to deny the mainstream scientific thought on a subject, and to fail to teach it.
Lurk,
An open mind is good.
Keeping your mind so open that your brain falls out is bad.
Life is not just an opinion. You don't just get to vote on reality. You gather evidence and evaluate the facts.
Astrology had been around many centuries, has been studied for many centuries and has never, in any way, shape or form, been proven to have any validity as a predictive tool.
I know we are steeped in a culture that prides itself on intellectual relativism where everybody is right about everything. That's part of the problem, not the solution.
>The fact that 60% of Americns don't accept astrology is valid (meaning that 40% do) is hailed as good news. We're all dead.<
Open minds, now. Astrology has been around for a long time, very long, and the fact that it isn't qualified by experimental science doesn't make it less a part of the human scene. People believe in a lot of things not measurable by the microscope...I wouldn't say "we are all dead" because of it.
Not being lab-certified is often not a requirement with "hard science," either. Witness dark matter, yet another creation by the research world to fit their math, despite not one shred of evidence for its existence (anyone remember ether?) You'd have a better chance proving that the moon in Scorpio makes you horny.
Someday, and that day may never come, we may actually find out that the stars in their courses DO affect us in some way. There's plenty left out there for us to not have a clue about. I believe radio waves were a complete unknown for about 98% of recorded human history. For now, astrology is crude, it's escapist, and it's also silly fun.
I'll take the mystic dancing of the quirkies over the dull march of the uber-rational. They dress better, too.
Made any decisions about school?
H
Wanna raise your blood pressure? Take a check on the latest survey regarding the state of scientific literacy in America.
http://www.newsday.com/news/health/ny-science0430.story?coll=ny%2Dhomepage%2Dmore%2Dbreaking%2Dnews
How bad is it? The fact that 60% of Americns don't accept astrology is valid (meaning that 40% do) is hailed as good news.
We're all dead.
Cindy..
I thought you were telling us a story at first. It sounds so unreal. Make sure your mom stays healthy. I'm sure she has connections..
Meanwhile, butttinsky here, says..
CHARLIE.. CEP.. You listening?
Cindy, tell your mother to make some time for cooldown. Forty-four years is a hell of a long time. Then.. go kick somebody's butt.
Ya dig?
Thanks for sharing.
Heather
I have always wondered why America creates so many serial killers in the first place: Maybe it is our sense of selfish superiority, or the way people are treated like property. More than likely the way we downplay the need for better mental health services, in this dictatorial "marketplace".
But I would never blame the media. Too many facts that get in the way of such a lame arguement. Like Frank Zappa said, since there have been so many love songs written, then why haven't people been programmed to love?
Changing Lanes: Great film, marvelous acting, great way of handling the concept of stress and how it eats at you; especially when things all seem to be going down the sewer. I give it plunger up.
----------------------
I also recieved that dreaded email. Does anyone know if that thing actually was directed from Africa?
-----------------------
Finally saw, Lord Of The Rings. What an amazing use of special effects, no wonder it won all those Oscars. Beginning to think that Peter Jackson might have let Opie screw him. Petey Jackson, you are one bad man. This had to be the hardest movie ever to make. The thought scares the hell out of me. Put er there Petey. Now that's dedication; and to think: He made THREE Rings movies in a row! Yikes. Now I can see why Neil Labute only does small films.
Bermanator,
Don't know if that ninja site is for real or not, but _it_is_hilarious. For those that haven't seen it (www.realultimatepower.net) Joe Bob Rich says check it out.
Also, Bermie-nator, what was the name of that book again you mentioned quite awhile ago regarding serial killers and their upbringing/motivation? I hope you know what I'm talking about 'cause I believe it was you that mentioned the book. If it wasn't you, then ignore me and I'll do some sleuthing.
(When I worked in a bookstore, I always hated the customer who came up to me and asked, "Do you have that book? The one that was on that show the other day? Not sure which show and I'm not sure what the book's about, but it was written by a doctor. I think. It had a blue cover. Or, maybe it was green because the television color hasn't been too good. Do you have it?")
Washu,
A) You are correct on Ackerman. Which, to put on my personal opinion hat, is just an example of a certain tin ear he has toward words & phrases.
B) I prefer to think of it as a dimunation rather than an abbreviation. Gives the impression that the genre is till pointy rockets whizing around space with Tom Corbett.
Regards,
Joseph
Lynn- I _love_ the "I got flamed by" t-shirt idea! My brother'd be so jealous... in a little online weblog (bloglet), he wrote: "I just learned that my sister got into a flamewar with Harlan Ellison. ::cries:: I've never been so happy in my life!" Where I don't know as it was a 'flamewar' (especially on HE's low-gear end), it certainly was funny. Never knew he was a HE fan 'til this!
--Undottified
--Zoe Rose
Get your Smoking E tshirt today.
http://www.cafepress.com/webderland
You guys have way too much time on your hands.
I picked up the term "schwag" from local radio, and in that context it means promotional items generally of little or no value that is given away to the masses (e.g. bumperstickers, cheap tshirts, drink insulators, magnets, program directors, etc).
In *this* case, schwag is indeed promotional in nature, but you have to pay for it, which means it is of a much higher quality than your usual schwag. And the E is Smoking as a direct result of your kind and loving nature here on the Webderland board. Yes, we are still bandying about the idea of the "I got flamed by Harlan Ellison and all I got was this lousy tshirt" shirt. Of course, the url would only be given to those who have actually *survived* the loving tongue caress of our esteemed patron, and lived to tell the tale.
Now get back to work. ALLYA DAGOS! GET OFF ME LAWN!
L.
Jim: I knew you were kidding. Just wanted to let everyone know why I haven't been exhibiting my usual ebullience (or verbosity) in this venue. At least I get to dance up the sun tomorrow with my morris team (May Day, ya know), and two friends have asked if I want to sing the National Anthem with them before a minor league game at the end of the month. Cheers!
Y'know, the term 'sci-fi' was actually coined for the first time by a film producer...Forrest Ackerman, I think. Anybody is welcome to correct me on this.
Never knew so many people could despise an abbreviation...
LW (Benjamin A.A. Winfield)
Is THAT why the "E" is smoking?
So Lynn is now selling DRUGS to raise money for KICK? Oy vey...
DAVID: Sorry to hear about your difficulties. I hope you don't think *I* was trying to be dogmatic or anything--I was just kidding around. (Though I DO enjoy a good grammar rumble now and then...)
CINDY: I can't believe, in this litigious age, that people actually think they can GET AWAY with this shit. I hope a lawyer takes your mom's case, and they sue the Holy Hell out of these dirtbags.
Lorin & Xanadu,
I think Schwag is a different term than Swag. Appears to be a word for the lowest grade of weed, according to a bunch of stoner web pages.
Regards,
Joseph
CINDY: What agency does your mother work for?
She should go to the EEO office. She should go to the union. And I'm certain a good lawyer will step up.
Re: GAE's obit in the Cleveland Plain-Dealer -- since when does any part of "When Gravity Fails" take place on Bourbon Street?
Gosh, I really need to do some WORK this week...
Anyway, I'm pretty sure SCHWAG = SWAG = (from bartlebys.com)
"NOUN: 1a. An ornamental drapery or curtain draped in a curve between two points. b. An ornamental festoon of flowers or fruit. c. A carving or plaster molding of such an ornament. 2. Slang Stolen property; loot. 3. Australian The pack or bundle containing the personal belongings of a swagman. 4. Slang Herbal tea in a plastic sandwich bag sold as marijuana to an unsuspecting customer.
INTRANSITIVE VERB: Inflected forms: swagged, swag·ging, swags
1. Chiefly British To lurch or sway. 2. Australian To travel about with a pack or swag.
ETYMOLOGY: Probably of Scandinavian origin."
Cindy: What happened to your mother just plain sucks. But after 44 years and the last few years of abuse, it may well be a relief. As long as they're not screwing up her pension, that is...
I knew several soldiers during my time in the Army -- good, solid, hardworking NCOs, maybe they didn't win medals for valor in combat but certainly had never embarrassed the uniform they wore -- who were driven out after 18 or 19 years to keep them from getting their 20 years in. It's not right, it's not fair, and if your mom has all that documentation then she needs to find a lawyer who will take the case. Once the lawyers for the VA get around to reviewing her documents during discovery, they'll make a settlement offer.
Ok, I'm going to risk sounding even stupider than is my normal want and custom...
I understand the meaning from the context - but I am curious - does anyone know the origin of the term "schwag"?
No particular need - just general curiosity.
Thanx in advance.
Jim:
It ain't age. It's exhaustion and low spirits. I too have been shifted into a much shittier position at my day job. My book is stuck in Editing Limbo (the publisher fired one editor and just hired another one). I can't get to this board or anywhere else on the Web as often as I used to -- as often as I'd like -- and I need a big change. I think I'll go get a Ph.D to stave off boredom; people keep mistaking me for a professor, anyway. But that'll take some groundwork. * sigh * And I don't claim to be an expert on rules of grammar, just a natural writer. No point in being dogmatic about it, anyhow....
That, and they used the mutant term "sci-fi" in the hed. Oh well, it's still decent obit. Though I'll admit that I'm intrigued to find out how you manage to drop out of Yale twice, as the obit says Mr. Effinger did.
Regards,
Joseph
Well, well--a prophet DOES have honor in his hometown. For the Plain Dealer obit on GAE, check out
http://www.cleveland.com/obituary/plaindealer/index.ssf?/xml/story.ssf/html_standard.xsl?/base/news/1020159013235072.xml
Okay, so they misspelled Harlan's name.
HEAR YE! HEAR YE! HEAR YE!
GETcher WEBderLAND SCHWAG Here! *T*shirts! BALLcaps! COFfee mugs! TOTE bags! FIVE, count 'em, FIVE dollars of EVERY item purchased goes to KICK! GETcher SMOKING 'E NOW!
http://www.cafepress.com/webderland
Limited Time Only! Stainless Steel Travel Mugs, Frosted Rootbeer Mugs, and collared Golf Shirts! Get 'em while they're hot!
Alex: Point taken. But we gotta keep the faith, don't we? (he says, plaintively, knowing Alex is more right than wrong...)
CINDY: My sympathies. We seem to be living in a world that is growing more faster and hyperactive with each passing minute, sacrificing dignity and decency in the process. Funny enough - your story reminded me of the silent film THE LAST LAUGH, where the master bellhop -after serving countless years at a prestigious hotel - is suddenly demoted to the degrading postion of restroom attendant. The total cluelessness (or apathy?) of his superiors to how this will affect him emotionally, physically and financially seems to be more in effect today than ever before.
Not that any of this helps, but hope it brightens your world a little.
LW (Benjamin A.A. Winfield)
Xanadu, er, MAYBE Cindy's mother will do well once she gets a lawyer--and maybe not. The Federal government, in its wisdom, sometimes grants itself exceptions from the laws the rest of us must follow. I hope Cindy's mom finds a good lawyer, but I know from long experience that the law is a screwy thing, and justice is often a surprising by-product of its workings, rather than its inevitable goal.
Not to be a cynic, mind you. It's just that I come from a family of lawyers. Father, brother, twin sister, all in law. (Sorry, none in Texas.)
Rick, let me add my belated congrats on the new job.
--Alex
Cindy,
Keep looking for a lawyer - there will be one who will take the case, and your mom will do well then.
Bureaucratic fucknuts...that's all I gotta say.
Sorry, Cindiana
Cindy,
Your mom:
Rant by all means! That utterly sucks and I'm very sorry to hear it. I wish there was more machinery (for the little I know in that area there is) to deal more readily with that kind of blatant, low, cut-throat sovereignty...whether dealing with a government office or the private sector.
Cindy,
Your mom:
Rant by all means! That utterly sucks and I'm very sorry to hear it. I wish there was more machinery (for the little I know in that area there is) to deal more readily with that kind of blatant, low, cut-throat sovereignty...whether dealing with a government office or the private sector.
Oh, and Cindy:
what fucking assholes. You and your mother have my sympathy.
LORIN:
"Wizard's First Rule" is Terry Goodkind. One of my favourite "epic fantasy" series, but it's HIGH on blood and gore and sex (the first novel contains a 100-something page torture scene)
My favourite authors in fantasy are, however:
URSULA K. LE GUIN -- Wizard of Earthsea being the most known, but most of her other books are beautiful too.
ROBIN HOBB (aka Megan Lindholm) -- The Farseer Trilogy (Assassin's Apprentice, Royal Assassin and Assassin's Quest) and The Liveship Traders (Ship of Magic, Mad Ship, Ship of Destiny) are some of the most beautifully written books ever; they're finished trilogies instead of ever-continuing series like Sword of Truth or (ugh) Wheel of Time; and for a change, they concern themselves not with the fate of an entire world, but just a small town.
and, of course
GEORGE R. R. MARTIN -- A Song of Ice and Fire (currently out: A Game of Thrones, A Clash of Kings, A Storm of Swords). Best. Epic. Fantasy. Ever.
(all in my opinion of course)
MY MOM
Who worked for the Federal government for 44 years got fired today. They decided that they didn't want her to get any more money at retirement so they started dogging her about ten years ago. The last thing they came up with was that she made two KEY stroke errors in two weeks... it didn't matter that she corrected them before she sent the job off. She was the only one in the office whose work they have been scrutinizing. Also one of the men in her office stole her umbrella.. a 20 year old BEN HOGAN umbrella in pristine condition that she had gotten from Dillards during a promotional deal in the early eighties. The guy took it a year or so earlier, then when the heat started getting turned up at the office he brought it back and put it in a place where she would have to walk by it. She asked him where he had gotten the umbrella and he said his uh sister had given it to him. So she told her supervisor about the incident and the supervisor wrote my mom up for " accusing him of taking her umbrella". They said things to her like, " I'm going to fire you by next March." And " Old woman." and " Some of us aren't going to be here much longer." Constant harrassment for YEARS. Some of it stemed from a time when she filed a greivance because she was denied a promotion ( she remains a GS9 after all these years), she had been the only one who had filled out the application correctly. The day after they were due the supervisor personally rewrote all of the other applications for everyone in the unit and put them in the proper form. They were promoted, Mom was not.
There was more and worse. One man told her that he knew people who could take care of her and they'd put the body in the trunk and haul it to Mexico where nobody would ever find out.
So today around one they called her into the sub-director's office, the director refused to see her. There were four or five of them there and she was alone when they told her that they were removing her from her position. They demanded her badge and the sticker from her car.
Never mind that she had been awarded and commended and people from Washington requested to deal with her on matters that required speed and efficiency. Never mind that she was working at the Veterans Administration and her second and last husband who died in 1969 was a veteran.
44 years. That is what kills me. They kick her out on the street like a bum who refuses to work.
She has about fifteen pounds of documentation for the treatment she's recieved over the last ten years.. alot of it is SMOKING, but she can't even find an attorney to take the case in Austin.
Go Figure.
Sorry for the rant y'all ,
Cindy
Re: Help us get millions of $$$ out of Nigeria fraud.
The version I've seen dresses it up with a story about how they need somebody honest and reliable to let them do the transfer, because the last guy they tried to work with vanished with a huge chunk of their money. Nudge, nudge, wink, wink, say no more. It's nice to imagine that the only people who'd fall for something like this are clowns who actually think they'll be able to skip the country with millions ripped off from the Nigerians. You know--the ones who deserve to fall for it.
TR
Sorry, forgot to mention that Lori is divorced.
Lynn,
"Chuck~ Saw Caesar sippin' a piña colada last night at Trader Vic's, did you? Was his hair p e r f e c t?"
Yep. What there was of it. The older he gets, the balder he gets.
By the way, where do I find the T-shirts, etc. you spoke of with some proceeds going to KICK? I went to Digital Carrion, but I didn't see anything there. I did see your photo. LOVE the tinted glasses.
Darwin's drunk again, eh? Must be hanging out with Caesar.
Now, for all, a little venting. Gotta get this out. I was having a telephone chat with a freind of mine, Linda. We've known each other since college. A longer time than I can believe. How did so much time pass? Linda was upset. She's jewish, quite orthodox, but not a tight-ass about it. Her niece, Lori, a rather mixed-up young lady, married a guy outside the faith. Not that I think that's all that shocking, I'm a goy myself. but Lori has been having a problem with her oldest daughter, Boston. The little girl can't sleep, keeps waking her mother at all hours.
Well now we know why. Her rotten, waste of protoplasm father has been telling Boston that jews are people of the devil, and that Lori is a whore, and that her loving aunt and grandmother will harm her. He says he gets this from his church.
You hear about this shit going on, about how someone takes their particular "bully pulpit", in this case an altar, and turns it into a way to broadcast ugliness to everyone there. And there seems to be no end of people who swallow this as "gospel" truth. That's why I enjoyed the humor tonight, more than usual. I needed a laugh.
Okay, vent closed. Thanks all, for coming to this oasis, and thanks to Rick for creating it, and Harlan for inspiring it. Keeps the slope-headed, knuckle-dragging monkeyboys at bay.
Chuck
Rich,
The website you mentioned is down at the moment, I'll keep trying!
CHUCK!!! My screenplay is probably in your email box as we speak. I THANK you for reading it.
Cindy
Kerry,
There is not always a Grandmaster award presented (technically, it is not a Nebula, but is presented as part of the awards ceremony). You correct that the nomination is by the President of the SFWA, after which it needs to be approved by a majority of SFWA officers. Here's the year-by-eyar list of recipients:
Robert A. Heinlein (1974)
Jack Williamson (1975)
Clifford D. Simak (1976)
L. Sprague de Camp (1978)
Fritz Leiber (1981)
Andre Norton (1983)
Arthur C. Clarke (1985)
Isaac Asimov (1986)
Alfred Bester (1987)
Ray Bradbury (1988)
Lester Del Rey (1990)
Frederik Pohl (1992)
Damon Knight (1994)
A.E. Van Vogt (1995)
Jack Vance (1996)
Poul Anderson (1997)
Hal Clement (Harry Stubbs) (1998)
Brian W. Aldiss (1999)
Philip José Farmer (2000)
Considering this past few months, I think they need to pick up the pace. It's a shame that more great writers haven't been recognized in this manner. Anyway the rules that cover Grandmaster & President awards are 20 and 21, found here:
http://www.sfwa.org/awards/rules.htm
Regards,
Joseph
With all these recommendations for Ginger Snaps, I’ve now ordered it. It sounds like an intelligent, well acted movie.
Thanks for the mini-reviews and recommendations from all here. Webderland is a mine of information, and it’s everyone that makes it that way.
Cheers,
Kerry
Hi all,
Could someone answer a question for me? In a post was the mention of a Nebula Award that was not being given this year. I notice, now that the awards are out, that the Grand Master Award and the Bradbury Award were not given, but a Presidents Award was.
As the Grand Master Award is nominated by the President of the SWFA (I think), what is the idea of not having the Grand Master Award this year, and of having a Presidents award?
I’ve had a look around, but can’t find anything about this, and it intrigued me.
Cheers,
Kerry
Some food for thought courtesy Darkhorizons.com
"Dragnet (TV): Emmy-winning "Law & Order" producer Dick Wolf and Studios USA are developing a prime time new updated take on the classic 50's & 60's cop drama with Wolf expected to write the pilot and serve as exec producer. It's expected Wolf's show "will be more of a revisualization of "Dragnet" as a modern-day Los Angeles cop drama rather than a simple remake of the old series". The original became famous for its very straight-ahead procedural style to cop dramas with Jack Webb starring as Sgt. Joe Friday. The show is not expected to begin airing till late 2003 at the earliest even though a network deal should be announced relatively shortly. Thanks to 'Miqque'"
Cindy... Hmmm...it was more an IMPRESSION. I can't cite a specific something..hmm..I think women, in general, fall into personae traps. Hmm.. HMM... I shall pray on the matter.
You speak like an expert, in your screenplay. I think...because..and bear with me I'm trying to figure this out as I write..you were very familiar with the landscape (language, people, situations) of which you wrote, in your screenplay; I heard no..hmm..hesitation.
Sometimes, I hear.. hesitation in the way you speak on the forum. I'm sure that's not all of it..but..
And as I know you ARE an expert--being a parent; being a spouse; being the wife of a trooper (on a number of levels--he sounds pretty cool, your babelet), the sound in your screenplay bespoke your..depth.
Does that make sense, Cindy?
The movie, "Ginger Snaps"... Nobody talked about "Ginger Snaps" when it came out, here in Canada. I can't recall WHY I went to see it--I worried, as I think it's a Canadian film, isn't it?--it might be..ech.. or another one of these stupid teen type horror movies with blood and breasts--you know the type.
But I was AMAZED by it. It really creeped me out. And I BATHED in the wonderful sensation of watching TWO, count em, TWO good female performances. I just couldn't figure out why I didn't hear more about it. Too many movies floating around in the universe, I guess.
The movie, "Quo Vadis... Oh, and I watched Christians die the other night. I mean, for REAL. It felt real and it really upset me. What asses the Romans were..in "Quo Vadis." Some BRILLANT performances though. The movie is in subtitles. I sat and watched it as a Catholic church charity screening--not planned, just that I wanted to see this movie--at the Towne Cinema. I think MOST of the people there WEREN'T reading the subtitles; I'm not sure what language it is.
Something went through me ...like a soul..when it came to the Christians and the lions..and other atrocities. This concept of watching people die..as an event, as a sport..that fucks with my head.
I was in the library the other day. I started a Tabitha King book--sorry, I forget the name. The character was out picking berries. She came upon three guy who had caught a cat in a metal trap. It was half dead anyway. One fucker splatted down on the cat's head with his boot, killing it. It shocked me..as it shocked the character, who immediately threw up. People do fucking strange things.
I read today of a six or seven year old boy, found in the mud, killed by his older brother and sister. They were, like, 10, 12, something like that. Where do these people come from? *Sigh*
Harlan... I thought of this when first I heard you mention Effinger. The thing is..these passings seem, in my recollection, to always come in threes.. or more.
Here's a view: Two guys left for the great beyond. They needed an arbitrator for the yak fests they'd finally be having--they's never met before--and called for this Effinger dude to complete the trio. Just an idea.
Regrets, in any case, in you need em, k?
Oh yeah, I bought a lottey ticket after the movie. If it wins, it goes to KICK. (I picked up this tidbit at the gas station job. Wouldn't have known otherwise. There's a 2.2 Million jackpot waiting. Stranger things have happened. (Okay, we have to deal with exchange rates and probably fucking income tax..but hey. Whaddayat gonna do?) I've never played lotteries. I find the concept weird. I save my luck for real life. But I also find footing a the bill of a large lawyer fee weird, too.
Jay, Cindy: a tiny child story. I thought it so amusing, so enLIGHTENING to see a completely different view, when a tiny child on the bus the other day, pointed to a baby and say, "John?" (or some name like that.) His mother, in a fairly serious tone, said, "No, that's not John." And the little kid, as serious as day, said, "Why not?"
Rick: Glad to hear you found a job. I'm sure your dog is highly relieved. *grin*
Thanks, Lynn! How could I forget FOUNDATION? And Eddings' books? Sheesh. Will pass on those recommendations.
And to read a first novel (and perhaps learn from someone else's mistakes) Terry Cook's WIZARD'S FIRST RULE.
L.
Well, how about Asimov's FOUNDATION? McCaffrey's PERN? One of my personal favorites, Susan R. Matthews EXCHANGE OF HOSTAGES and PRISONER OF CONSCIENCE, though not for the faint of heart. There's always Zelazny's AMBER, Eddings' BELGARIAD & MALLOREAN, Simmons' HYPERION, or Barker's IMAJICA.
Just to name a few,
L.
Yup, got that same email letter today. I seem to get it, or one like it, about once a month now. I really hope that NO ONE *EVER* falls for something so obvious. Not to mention ridiculous.
But, to a question: I've got a friend who is about to embark on a new novel--SF--that's rather expansive in scope. I suggested that in preparation he might read other "epic" novels, especially epic SF/Fantasy/Speculative novels. First ones that came to mind were Lord of the Rings, Dune, The Stand...but after that I was stumped.
Any suggestions?
Thanks in advance!
Lorin
Chuck~ Saw Caesar sippin' a piña colada last night at Trader Vic's, did you? Was his hair p e r f e c t?
L.
E-mail fraud:
I got one weeks ago from a supposed family member of Mobutu Sese Soko. His widow. I think I got that one at work. Damn, the recession must be hitting hard. I keep getting more spam than an army field kitchen.
Rick,
Glad to hear (read) about your new job. Best of luck to someone who demonstrates that the web does not have to be full of aimless crap.
Alex Jay,
(But I've always had a story in mind about it--Caesar had seizures ["Moses supposes"?], you see, and if I can ever do some in-depth research on pre-Christian Rome, I'll write about the plot to rid the Empire of its lycanthropic rulers ...)
Ah, yes. I do remember the case. Caesar had siezures by the sea shore. As I recall, he was the only bald wolfman in Rome. Everybody knew who had mutilated that little old lady last night, despite Caesar's denials.
"Oh, great! There goes Caesar, carrying off another sheep. That's eight head so far! Just wait'll Brutus hears about this!"
Chuck
Shane, I recieved the same e-mail today. I have had a few different versions of this fraud sent to me.
Cheers,
Kerry
I've seen this dealt with in a clever manner. What the bank and FBI do when they receive a tip like this is offer a "dummy number" that the FBI forwards to these schmoes. Then they watch for transactions on that account, track to the source and freeze the account making the withdrawl.
I understand that the con is often pulled off six months later, after recieving the account number and after they forward a "Thank you, but we've resolved the issue" email which either disappoints the potential lottery winner or tries to convince the Feds they got cold feet. Then, after the memory fades, they wait until payday and WHOOOSH, transfer the lot offshore, or - more commonly - they suck off the account like a parasite, assuming they are too dumb to watch their account closely.
Sadly, most really are offshore, so it's hard to prosecute or recover money lost to them.
Well, it has now been attempted on me: fraud. Today I received an e-mail from a "Mrs. Catherine K. Saro Wiwa Ogoni Tribe Nigeria" offering to share 10 percent of her dead husbands $45,000,000.00 dollars in oil holdings if I would allow her to use my bank account to transfer the money out of Nigeria. Can you believe that people fall for this crap? Of course, I immediately filed a complaint with the F.B.I.
Thanks for all the information, folks. I realize the information I provided was a bit sketchy so I thought I'd fill out the rest.
My son had bad ear infections when he was very young which caused some hearing problems for several months. After getting the infections cleared up and his hearing tested again we began speech therapy. While in the speech therapy class his therapist noticed that he did not seem to engage in "imaginative play" which is one of the hallmarks of Asperger's syndrome. We will be having a developmental asessment done in a few months to confirm/disprove this diagnosis.
The reason for waiting so long for the diagnosis is because my son will be having surgery to fuse some vertebrae in his back that did not form properly when he was born. He'll be in a cast from shoulders to pelvis for six months afterwards.
Please don't read the above as a "oh woe is me" plea for sympathy. My son is a happy soon-to-be three year old who is currently fascinated by banging on piano keys and being read to by his mother and father.
Wow. I think that's the most I've told anyone about my family... well, ever. What can I say? You're all such a friendly and helpful bunch I just wanted to fill you in on the details.
Thanks,
Dennis
Washu,
"Ever seen the trailer for PSYCHO, or THE BIRDS for that matter?"
Those were REALLY funny; esp. the 'Psycho' trailer which took me off guard considering the tragedy that befalls the characters in the film.
**You are way off fella. The camera movements are meant to convey a sense of cat and mouse subversion. It added to the suspense. **
Since there was exactly zero suspense in the movie, would that mean there was negative suspense without the use of the endlessly roving camera?
That's a pretty impressive achievement!
Bermanator: I know. I still think Fred tipped you off, though.
Bill
Thanks for confirming that "different from" is correct and "different than" indicates not only a tin ear, but grammatical ignorance. I heard Terry Gross say it today on NPR.
Bill: I'm sure your hair is *fabulous*. I honestly didn't even think of you when I used that name, as those are the two names I use in class when making up sample vocab sentences.
Bermanator
Even a movie critic has the right to have guilty pleasures. Ebert is usually pretty open minded--which is the reason he is one of the better critics--and doesn't look down on movies that merely, "entertain".
The reason I probobly like him so much is because he loves Indiana Jones And The Temple Of Doom. Sorry, Lynn, had to say it.
-----------------
Chris L, saw Panic Room for a second time: You are way off fella. The camera movements are meant to convey a sense of cat and mouse subversion. It added to the suspense.
Bermanator: Leave my hair out of this! Damn Fred straight to aych-ee-double-hockey-sticks!!
Bill
BERMANATOR: A cursory look at the usual suspects (Strunk and White, O'Connor, Follett) confirms it: "Different from" is correct, "different than" is not.
DAVID LOFTUS: Geez, you aren't even going to put up the TEENSIEST fight over the correct use of "none"? You're showing your age, Loftus...
Funny thing about Hitchcock. He seemed to be one of the few directors who were true showmen in every sense of the word. Ever seen the trailer for PSYCHO, or THE BIRDS for that matter? That man had style.
Of course "different than" sounds wrong just like that. The confusion tends to come in when the two words get separated by a bunch of others, e.g., "Larry had a different way of doing it than John." I hear and read this kind of rendering all the time.
I don't know the rules, and I tend not to remember them, according to the parts of speech, etc. I just try to look at what's reasonable. "Than" typically applies when direct comparisons are made: larger than, faster than, dumber than, earlier than. "Different" doesn't offer any direct comparison; all it says is that a distinction exists or may be argued.
Bottom line: I try to avoid sentence constructions that encourage or allow the use of "different than."
Re: Grammar. Different from=correct, different than=incorrect.
I just recently had a writer of some prominence (not HE) make that very correction on a story of mine. It seems the "my mother is an English teacher" excuse only covers used commas and infinitive joinery.
L.
P.A.B.: As I understand it, "different from" is the correct form, though "different than" MAY be used when it comes before a clause.
So, for example, you couldn't say, "The cat who ran up the stairs is different THAN the other cat" because the part after "different THAN" is not a clause (no verb).
But you CAN say, "The cat who ran up the stairs is different than the cat who ran downstairs (because you've got a subject and verb at the end there)". Of course, it still sounds lousy to my ear, too, and since either is acceptable in that case, I'd probably just stick with "different from."
Two cents, for what they're worth!
-- Lorin O.
CLARIFYING THE GRAMMAR QUESTION:
Example: Fred's hairstyle is *different from* Bill's because he has a blonde streak.
OR
Fred's hairstyle is *different than* Bill's because he has a blonde streak.
Or are both correct?
Bermanator
GRAMMAR QUESTION FOR ALL YOU NITPICKERS:
Which is more acceptable, "different from" or "different than"? I have to admit, "different than" just sounds wrong to me, and I want to know if it is in fact a correct formulation.
Rich: That Ninja Website was sweet, or should I say, awesome? I read the intro of it to my study hall and showed them the picture "Mark is almost all the way through puberty, which is bragable." We collectively laughed our asses off. Is that site for real?
Bermanator
Rob: That's fair. I can see how a quote like Kael's "Hitchcock (the master of a piddling domain, a 'petit maitre' if ever there was one)"* affects your reading of Kael.
Cheers, Jon
* "Three." Pauline Kael. _Reeling._ Toronto: Little, Brown, 1976. 175-182. 179.
Alex,
Perhaps your efforts were not in vain. The Chicago Tribune carried a nice approximately 8-paragraph obituary from the AP for Mr. Effinger.
Regards,
Joseph
Jon,
Just for final clarity on the "Hitchcock collaboration" thread: I'm not taking away credit for those writers' abilities (particularly Stefano, whose own personality came through in the dialogue). The point is Hitch worked the strings to keep his themes in place; those writers whose approach weren't to his liking went out the door (he didn't like Chandler's dialogue for 'Strangers on a Train', for instance). By writing framework material and sketching (he'd had an art background; also in engineering...the reason sprinkled references to math come up in his films often...and the reason he was very good working the floor plan for camera tricks, sfx and technical problems) he had a fixed method in the process of assembling and constructing the material that went back to his beginnings in the silents. There were CERTAINLY writers like Lehman and Stefano who understood better than others what he was after in the structuring; unlike Hunter who'd literalized many elements in the original script for 'The Birds' which Hitchcock removed in preference to metaphor and ambiguity (frankly, to my liking). And LEHMAN, who'd been a hot success with 'North By Northwest' also did 'Family Plot', a relative failure. It's simply inaccurate to infer the film's success depended on who he teamed up with: the films that failed did so because of HIM; those that succeeded did so because of HIM. It was the same situation for Kubrick and Wilder.
Hey, listen: film is a collaborative medium no matter WHO you are. It's just the depth of influence directors have on the themes, style and voice of those movies that varies. Without Hitch's personal eccentricities flooding out of his films the way they do - even in the tv episodes he directed - his collaborators WOULD probably be more important to discuss. He is among the few directors ever who personify their movies.
Lorin: Yup, sorry, I'll be in Italy and Ireland during the next academic year, so I'm out. Good luck though!
J
Group W - I admit I've got NO idea who y'are! But Betty's Pies sounds like a superb trip. My parents are coming up for graduation, so maybe we'll take the trip there. My father has mentioned the Twin Cities book store several times, and so it's a definite destination during my next trip there. Thanks for the suggestsions!
--Dottingly
--Zoë Rose
Grumble, grumble, grumble, kvetch.
Yesterday, I notified the Associated Press in New Orleans about George Alec Effinger's death. They were receptive--at least partially because my long-time associate Janet McConnaughey is part of the New Orleans AP bureau. She knew and liked Effinger. She arranged for me to send info on GAE, including awards info, and Harlan's number (with Harlan and Susan's permission), in case they wanted a quote.
The Plain Dealer, Cleveland's only major newspaper, was an entirely different adventure. First, they'd never heard of him. Good enough, I sent the information (minus Harlan's number). They called again. Did George have family in the Cleveland area? I didn't know. Could they wait for the AP obit? Sure. And now today they called again, same questions, looking for other notices, etc. I suggested contacting a publisher and Barbara Hambly. The earnest young woman doing the obits means well, I'm sure. But I'm beginning to despair of GAE getting a proper obit in his hometown paper.
Faz baz. Just needed to blow off steam. I don't know if a prophet is without honor only in his own country, but it seems that a writer surely is.
--Alex
Zoe dot dot, you must not leave Duluth until you have been to Betty's Pies.
It's a requirement of spending time on the north shore. Well worth a 30 minute
drive. http://www.bettyspies.com/
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=Betty%27s+Pies&spell=1 (google search)
I always take an extra cooler for a 5 layer chocolate pie when heading up to
Temperance River or Cascade River state park.
If you or Lorin O end up in the twin cities, be sure to stop by Uncle Hugo's.
http://www.visi.com/~sfreader/unclehugo.html Open since 1974, I'm told it's
the longest surviving bookstore of it's genre(SF/fantasy), as well as one of the
largest in the states.
Several on this page may have met the late Scott Imes, a long time employee there.
http://www.startribune.com/stories/462/895052.html
Gunther:
--it's that videogames and movies are blamed for violence in society--
One politician fueling his campaign with a current tragedy is not a social mandate.
--there're several studies showing the opposite--
What, that videogames and movies make one peaceful and loving?
--any normal human being can distinguish reality from fiction, especially when they're 19 and thus have at least 11 years of education behind them--
A large assumption. Depends on the education, of course, as well as a host of other things (that I suppose "normal" people have); quality family life, balanced mental health, etc.
Yet ANOTHER piece on MULHOLLAND DRIVE: http://www.locusmag.com/2001/Reviews/Lalumiere11_MDrive.html. Though it subscribes to the standard "2/3 dream, 1/3 reality" theory, it raises a few points I hadn't seen before, especially about the true identities of the elderly couple and the "Silencio" woman. Maybe I WASN'T so off the mark with my "God and the Devil" crack, after all.
(I bought the DVD over the weekend, and I'm going frame-by-frame through the lesbian sex scenes--purely to discern any satirical intent on Lynch's part, of course.)
Lurk:
It doesn't matter if he had, it's that videogames and movies are blamed for violence in society when a) there're several studies showing the opposite and b) any normal human being can distinguish reality from fiction, especially when they're 19 and thus have at least 11 years of education behind them.
It's too easy to be obit guy of late. Joining George "Piglet" Effinger among the missing this weekend is John "Richard Cowper" Murry, another excellent writer. His novels were probably not the place to start, but the shorter fiction was often extremely impressive.
Oops redux: PETER - drop me a line, re: the seminars, too.
Cindy (and anyone else for that matter),
Please please please check out this site: http://www.realultimatepower.net
I don't know if it's for real or not, but it is (as the Sports Guy would say) FEEEEEEE-nomonal. Check out the PUMPUP and PUMPUP2 links (no nononono no, it's not porno). The comments at the end are priceless; specifically, The Kings Gold/Babes.
Jay's AQ = 13, baby... what do I win? K Mart Underwear?
RICH/CHRIS
Filmmaking as a Democracy. I don't think so.
Re: "I wrote the thing and I would pick the title whether anyone else liked it or not." <--- Channeling Ellison there, eh? Since you were Director AND Producer, you're pretty much THE MAN on that shoot. "You wanna take this to the UNION?" I've heard said. Apparently it shuts people up. Of course, if the instructor is nurturing a collaborative effort, then all bets are off and you'll end up with another mixed-up piece of filth.
I love college productions. Everyone's a fucking Coppola or Kevin Smith or Tarantino.
When my buddies and I shot "Ringo" it was pretty clear that since I was the guy footing the $$$, I ruled the universe. Of course, this works both ways. None of that $$$ was lining THEIR pockets so they could easily spend the day doing something that didn't involve sitting in the woods in mid-summer or creating zombie make-up.
When you need advice, they're there to give you their best and it's often best to allow them to give their advice. At least in school/amateur productions, you can't push too hard or your "talent" takes a hike. On a crappy shoot like "Ringo" we needed all the help we could get.
I miss those days. :)
Jay
Oops, BILL - I see your address! I'll write you!
-- Lorin
PETER: Nothing personal, I promise! :-) Just something so symmetrical about the Zoe/Justin pairing.
BILL, JUSTIN, ZOE, and any other writers in Minneapolis, Boston, Atlanta, Phoenix, and probably Orange County area of CA: drop me a line at lorin@free-expressions.com, and I'll give you the skinny on the writing seminars. (Also, check out www.free-expressions.com for info. on the seminars! Might help to know what you're getting into.)
Basically, I'm looking for folks who are willing to do some venue scouting (helping select hotels) and local promotions in exchange for a free seminar and probably a little cash. Also, probably, some help at the seminar itself.
Ideally, the writer in question would live in/be QUITE familiar with the city in question. I don't have any objection to someone schlepping an hour or two to get there (and that may be great for someone who is ONLY helping out at the seminar), but it might end up being a lot of time and effort for the reward.
I SHOULD have mentioned that this is for end of '02/most of '03, so I don't know if that puts you out of the running, Justin (will you still be in Italy?). If not, let's chat.
BILL - if you send me a note (or just your email address), I'll drop a line w/ some details.
And the same for everyone.
Re: the AQ score - I think it really just measured levels of extroversion and introversion. Apparently, I'm the social butterfly of the south! Who knew?
Best to all -
Lorin
RICH!
HAHAHAHAHA!
The pee pee comment was priceless!
I thought your response was PERFECT. You held your ground like a forty year old man! Careful, sticking up for yourself can be habit forming.
Cindy
rich,
I think you have the right idea. My own experience working on short films at film school showed that any collaborations were disastrous. Of course, almost all student films are disastrous.
At the end of the first year, we shot a five minute film in groups of four students. We had to decide for ourselves how to divvy up the responsibility. Being such nice guys, we decided that we would have two co-directors (I was one of them) and we'd pick different scenes to direct.
The film was an embarassing, non-sensical mish-mash with only one strength, good cinematography (on the student film scale of things.) Of course, there was only one cinematographer on the shoot.
Well, my amazing flame car is now fixed. Sort of a shame, really, as its gas line leak and fused fuel flow chip made it ideal for destroying any Doomsday Machines in this area.
Rob: So we disagree -- I really like your non-budgingness re: Hitchcock, as it reminds me of my own rants about Jack Kirby in other venues. I'd just like to point out one logical bit of three-card monte you pulled. Joseph Stefano may be a 'nobody' compared to Steinbeck and Faulkner, but that doesn't reflect on his ability to write. And Steinbeck and Faulkner had sometimes spotty records in Hollywood, apart from their great achievements as novelists. Beyond that, I think it's a shame that Hitchcock never won an Oscar (or five or six), and of course Hitchcock's films bear the imprint of his interests. They certainly do, and I'd count *Psycho*, *Shadow of a Doubt*, *The 39 Steps* and probably half-a-dozen others on any list I'd compile of '100 Best.' Timon of Athens is a dud, and Hamlet's dramatic structure is a nightmare -- neither of those change my assessment of Shakespeare as pretty much 'it'. Hitchcock's grand successes far outnumber his failures, and even the failures are interesting in a way that I think points to Hitchcock as being a great artist -- because they *are* interesting at points.
Cheers,
Jon
For those that have the Independent Film Channel, tonight's show of "Dinner for Five" will include the following guests: "...Jon Favreau as host to special guests Ron Livingston (of Swingers and Office Space fame), Sarah Silverman (of SNL and MR. Show fame), Kevin Pollack (of The Usual Suspects) and Rod Steiger (if you don't know... ::sigh:: On the Waterfront, Dr. Zhivago, Mars Attacks, etc). They're eating at Saddle Peak (Los Angeles)."
The above quote was taken from Ain't It Cool News.
I am a fan of Rod Steiger and don't know how you go from "On the Waterfront" and "Dr. Zhivago" to "Mars Attacks". I don't know how one leaves out "The Pawnbroker" or maybe even "In the Heat of the Night" or any other countless GOOD movies Steiger was in and put in "Mars Attacks". But, that's just me.
Also, just some thoughts on collaborations and whatnot. I am taking a film class and we just shot my script over the weekend. Nothing great and the only reason my script was chosen was because mine was the only one submitted in a reasonable amount of time. Given that it was my script, the instructor said I was producer and probably should direct. (Hitchcock's got nothing to worry about, but I think I'm a cut above Ed Wood.)
I've got a working title and kicked around a couple of things and mentioned it to the class. After getting blank stares and perplexed looks at the title I suggested, someone in the class said, "Since this is a collaborative effot, we should all decide on the title."
I immediately said no. After the uproar died down I explained that I wrote the thing and I would pick the title whether anyone else liked it or not. Also, since I was "producing and directing", I wouldn't mind input but the final say was mine.
You'da thought I yanked out my pee-pee and waved it all over the place based on the reaction I received.
Based on this experience, I think I'll be doing my own stuff with folks who don't feel a need to impart their "creativity" on something that's already been created.
Oops. That should've read:
"Please, contact me about the Boston seminar."
BG
Lorin: Contact me with some info on the Boston seminar.
Rick: Congrats!
Bill
Gunther, if he had a stack of bibles in his room and his walls were plastered with posters of Jesus Christ, they would have reported that too.
Political candidates are weather vanes....they have no opinions, they just follow the wind.
I wouldn't worry about it.
These killings in Germany piss me off no end.
Not just because the killer was a complete nutcase (apparently it turned out that he'd planned the shooting for quite a while and even called friends warning them not to go to school that day).
No, the media reports bug the hell out of me. What was the FIRST REMARKABLE THING they reported about the killing?
That he had violent movies and computer games in his room.
Oh noooo, it didn't matter that he had a fucking ARSENAL of weapons and belonged to a sport shooter's club and trained like a madman -- IT WAS THE MOVIES AND THE GAMES!!! AS ALWAYS!!!
Next they'll find a Marilyn Manson CD behind his bed, and then we'll know who's REALLY responsible!
Now the chancellor candidate is calling for a law to ban violent games and movies (aside the fact that every single game involving the killing of humans gets banned in Germany and isn't available to buy for people under 18, nor may it be advertised or positively reviewed once it's banned) while CNN continues to show SUICIDE BOMBER LIVE WITH DETACHING HEAD ACTION.
I hate this fucking hypocrisy.
Good morning, all-
The countdown is really going now - only officially 19 days until I graduate/get commissioned...
Re: AQ test - I got a 12, so does that mean there's very little chance I'm any form of autistic? Also, Dennis- try to make sure everything about your child gets looked at. I'm no expert (or parent, even) but I do know that I was being considered for LD (learning disabled) classes as a child until it was discovered I couldn't hear anything. Got tubes in the ears and *wham!*, I was suddenly the smart kid in class.
Re: Me and match-ups here. Goodness. Is it sad that I have more potential hookups here than in real life? *laughs* Even completely fabricated cyberspace ones? Aah, well... (and yes, I'm just kidding. Kinda.)
R: Whose Line... a show I thoroughly enjoy, though I don't know much about the individual people. I'd have to say Colin's my favorite, though. He's always the one to make me snort whatever liquid it is I'm drinking through my nose.
Loren O. - I'm in Duluth, a mere 2 hours from Minneapolis. If you come here, do let me know and I'll try to help out in whatever way I can!
Dangit. My "time to go" buzzer just went off.
Off to school, off to school.
Dotty
Zoë Rose
Lorin, I don't know whether to be relieved or insulted...
I'll be neither. Heh!
I'm in No. Cal, about seven hours North of L.A. If I could find a cheap place to crash I could easily drive down and help out. (I become unemployed in a couple weeks anyway.)
---Peter
Ok, so wondering what this AQ test was about, I found and took it.
My AQ is 21.
I'm very sceptical about these type of tests, because you know what there testing for, and that may influence your answers.
Cheers,
Kerry
Lorin: Thanks for helping to clear that up. I'm about 80 minutes south of Phoenix, although the way I drive tends to cut that figure in half. I could probably give you a hand, depending on what exactly you need. Also, it depends on when. As of right now I'm pretty free from late May until I leave for Italy around the 13th of August. Most of May is busy with finals, a sea kayaking trip to North Carolina, and a trip to Vegas with my pops, but I'll have SOME free time in mid-May. Let me know, I'd love to help in any way I can.
J
Dunno, Lorin; mine was a 32.
Should I be worried?
ONE LAST THING: What does it mean that my AQ score is a *9*?
1. Please, not Zoe dot-dot and Peter! I'm still hoping for the Zoe/Justin match-up. (As a thirty-six year old who has now been with the same person for exactly HALF of her life, I must live vicariously through other people's romances. Even completely fabricated cyber-romances. I'm not picky.)
2. Gerbils named "Sex" and "Violence"? I can live with that.
3. Rick, CONGRATULATIONS on your new job! And, though it's been said many times in the last couple of days (I was AFK from Friday on...), I greatly appreciate the work you do here. I've put together a couple of websites myself--nothing as expansive as this one--and I know it's a ton of work. I also do enough interacting with the public (mostly writers, which can be a pretty high-maintenance group) to have had my share of run-ins like the one you related (I'm so glad the guy apologized, though it'd have been better if he could have exercised a little impulse-control in the first place)). It can be quite a buzzkill. It's like handing someone a lavish twelve-course meal and having him bitch because his napkin is wrinkled (not even, I suppose, since the whole thing was his oversight in the first place).
ANYWAY, again, just know your efforts here mean a lot to me, and I'm only a semi-regular (at best).
4. Justin, re: show/don't tell. This has probably been covered already (have only scrolled back about 100 posts, and you guys had a BUSY weekend). This will be covered ad nauseum for the rest of your writing life (believe me). Basically, the difference between showing and telling is the difference between saying, "He was angry" and saying, "He barged into the room, picked up a chair, and hurled it at the window." One is simply information you're feeding the reader (telling). The other is a demonstration, in OBSERVABLE terms (imagery) of the emotion you're trying to express. The more you can put into concrete, sensory language, the more you create a SPACE for your reader to enter. The more you do that, the more involved they become in your story.
Hope that helps.
5. Any writers in Boston, Atlanta, Minneapolis, Phoenix, or Orange County area of CA (haven't settled on a location) who'd be interested in helping out with a series of writing seminars (in exchange for a free seminar and possibly a *little* cash)? I've got Lynn pegged for CA, but could probably use another hand there. Could use a COUPLE of hands in all locales, I'm sure.
6. Sorry if this is cryptic. The first of my seminars was this weekend, and I think I burned out my verbal skills chatting for about sixty hours straight (man, we writers are a VERBOSE bunch!). It was, however, PHENOMENAL, one of those occasions that unfolds even more smoothly than your fondest imaginings. Won't bore everyone w/ details. I'll just say that apart from the fact that my instructors did an excellent job (as expected), it was the HOTEL that actually blew me away with how smartly they handled things and how solicitous they were. So, miracles do happen!
Thanks for reading! Blabbingly yours,
Lorin O.
CHUCK: Well, I'm epileptic, my eyebrows grow together, and when I was a child I growled at people when I was angry.
Wasn't hard to link stuff up, really.
(But I've always had a story in mind about it--Caesar had seizures ["Moses supposes"?], you see, and if I can ever do some in-depth research on pre-Christian Rome, I'll write about the plot to rid the Empire of its lycanthropic rulers ...)
Alex Jay,
Interesting idea linking grand mal siezures and legends of lycanthropy. What brought you to link the two together? Just curious, as I'm always interested in the origins of legends and icons.
Cindy,
Say, why don't you shoot me a copy of your screenplay while you're at it? As soon as your e-mail settles down. See address above.
Chuck
By the way, since we're discussing "Ginger Snaps," I was pleased to note that it won an International Horror Guild award for Best Film this month. Cool.
Regards,
Joseph
Incidentally, Cindy...
You probably understood this but you were never part of the target in my shit-slinging Hitchcock rail; just wanted to state that point because my posting kind of put you in the line of fire. It may not have been clear when you first read it.
...those guys kin really piss ya off sometimes...lemme tell ya all about it over a drink here...
My AQ Score: 26
It would explain a lot. Both my parents graduated from Rice.
L.
DAVID LOFTUS: Actually, Rob's plural use of "none" was correct. ("None of them are empty.") Many people have been mistakenly taught that none always means "not one." But it's now generally agreed that none is closer in meaning to "not any (of them)", so use of a plural verb is perfectly acceptable in most cases. The singular use of none applies only when it means "none of it," or "no amount." (See works on grammar and usage by Wilson Follett, Bryan A. Garner, and Patricia T. O'Conner--they all agree that none is mostly plural in nature.)
Some examples: None of the chickens are hatched. None of the conversation is worth repeating.
Yes, I'm a pain in the ass.
Personally, I think of the American version of "Whose Line Is It Anyway?" as superior in one respect: the dynamic between the regulars is a bit more developed and adds to the whole character of the show.
Oh, and there's nothing funnier than the sketch that involves Colin in front of a green screen while Ryan and whoever act as studio guys and Colin has to try and guess what's being projected in back of him. Especially good when the projection was Colin's greatest moments.
Regards,
Joseph
P.S. I'm sleeping with the lights on. Even a TV version of "Sixth Sense" creeps me out more than almost any movie.
Some brief responses to the passing flotsam....
Melissa -- Please let us know your reaction to "Seven Samurai," truly one of the utterly awesome works of film. And I hope you got the full 201-minute version, not one of half a dozen hacked-up jobs Americans had to settle for during most of three decades after its original release.
So Chris Long is a Haverford grad? I almost went there: They accepted me early, really seemed to want me, and it looked like a great place ... but I sorta got waylaid.
I must have read Kael's review of "2001" somewhere along the way, but I don't remember it. I'll venture a wild guess that she referred to the film as "unimaginative" in its human character aspect. The vast majority of homo saps in the movie were nearly colorless blanks. Yes, I know that was probably part of Kubrick's point, but it don't make for a warm fuzzy moviegoing experience. "2001" is a cerebral, even visual, marvel but it's kinda cold. In fact, I remain unconvinced that Kubrick had any particular skill at directing actors. He put music and light and sets and all other sorts of technical stuff together into an amazing whole, but I get the impression the actors kind of sank or swam on their own. If he cast sharp, inventive, or even just charismatic actors (George C. Scott, Kirk Douglas, Malcolm MacDowell) then they added to the whole, but if they didn't have the chops (Ryan O'Neal, Matthew Modine), then they got smothered in the mix.
(Speaking of chops, is anybody else joyful to see Vincent D'Onofrio getting regular work these days? The 2-hour season finale of "Law and Order: Criminal Intent" is on in 15 minutes and I'll have to log off. I think he's doing a kind of Fox Mulder thang on that show -- intuitive, magpie mind -- but it works anyway.)
Rob -- You were right the first time; "none is" is the proper construction, as in "not one is" or "no one is." Folks tend to get confused about this one because a plural noun or plural-sounding noun often shows up closer to the verb (e.g., "none of the turtles was able to make it to the water" or "none of the people in my group is going to the meeting" -- ""were" and are" sound so much more appropriate next to "turtles" and "people" ... but they're wrong). Best solution: Come up with a different way to say it. Your original phrasing was pretty ungainly, anyway.
I just saw the Pearce "Time Machine" cheap this evening. It wasn't that bad, but it wasn't terribly good. Some nice, understated visuals, so-so set design. Pearce was merely okay -- odd career choice for him, and the team let him down. What was the SECOND name mentioned in the museum, after Asimov and before Ellison?
I was much happier after coming out of an early matinee of the reissued "The Last Waltz." It struck me that Rick Danko had something of the same eyes/facial structure as Richard Gere, oddly enough. Joni Mitchell and Emmylou Harris, zowie...!)
RE THE WIRED AQ TEST:
Ha! I beat you! I got a 27!
("I take pride in besting people in meaningless little quizzes:
Definitely agree, Slightly agree, Slightly disagree, Definitely disagree...")
I'm still kind of cold on a period-authentic version of _The War of the Worlds_. Yes, I know, it'd be a really _right_ version of Wells's work, and it's be cool to see all that Victorian foofaraw get blasted to flinders.
But really, does it _need_ to be done? Why does a great book _have_ to be adapted into a movie? Is there a way of doing the _ending_ in some new and surprising way? I imagine a fiasco similar to that of the _Planet of the Apes_ remake.
Also, I'm thinking of a wonderful bit from _Invader Zim_ that parodied the ending. Zim and Gir are watching a movie on TV where the aliens-- a nice cross between Pal's and _Starship Troopers_-- are taking over. Scientists are panicking. One of them demonstrates, by snorting pepper, that the Aliens Are Allergic to Germs. We next see soldiers marching into battle and blasting huge wads of phlegm onto the aliens, which explode obligingly. Last title card reads "Hooray for Earth."
Re Asperger's. _Wired_ had a nifty article about the mini-epidemic of autism and Asperger's that's hitting Silocn Valley. The culture there selects for traits which are related to such syndromes, which means that people with predispositions towards it are both meeting women with similar tendencies, and having kids more frequently than they would have otherwise. The article's available at http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/9.12/aspergers.html?pg=1&topic=&topic_set=
I ought to mention something. My childhood wasn't terribly great, but there was a _lot_ about the way I dealt with things that made me wonder if I suffered from a form of autism or Asperger's. But there were a lot of areas where I didn't fit the diagnosis, so I chalk my earlier difficulties to my environment. (Still, I took the little test _Wired_ made available. Average score is 16, a score of 32 or higher may indicate something. I got 25.)
An odd resonance with George Alec Effinger's passing--Ruth Handler, creator of the Barbie Doll, just died Saturday.
Cindy~ You should differentiate between a Gulf Coast accent (a softer drawl), a West Texas accent (the more nasal one you reference), a Pan Handle accent (more like Oklahoma), an East Texas Accent (a hint of Cajun), and then a Dallas-Ft. Worth citified accent (what Yankees think Texans should sound like). I'm sure I've missed some, not having lived in Texas for almost twenty years, but I have friends, and I'm one of those "detail oriented" folks who pay attention to how people speak.
I'm half way through your script and liking it so far. How do you want notes? I almost wish you had acts & scenes so I could be specific.
L.
XANADU!
I love you!
Thank you for doing TWO reads of my script that was ABOVE AND BEYOND! The notes that you included were excellent. It's amazing how blind one can become after working on the same thing for a couple of years. I'd guess this is around rewrite 7 and you pointed out some important things that I have probably looked at fifty times and never identified.
I'm going to read y'all's script next.
Oh and the thing about Texas Accents is that they differ and vary greatly. We've discussed it on the board here before. A thick Nasal Texas Accent is different than a regular drawl... believe me.. it's profoundly different.
Thank you so much you are a wizard and a prince,
:)
Yours in debt and gratitude,
Cindy
SHANE: Yes, Brady was on the British version. In fact, at the Comedy Central website, there's a good clip of him improvising a song to sing to an astronomy student picked out of the auddience in the style of Barry White (actually, it seems more in the style of Peabo Bryson/James Ingram/Luther Vandross, but hey; it works).
Dennis - My son was diagnosed with Apserger's Syndrome in the first grade. He is now in the fifth grade and doing all right. The biggest problem is socialization. He is incapable of reading facial expressions, mostly because he never looks at people when he talks to them. However, he has a couple of good buddies that he hangs around with. He has a tested verbal IQ of 143 and a writing IQ of 90. He has never been able to connect the word he reads to the one he is trying to write. Actually, my son didn't start reading until he was given a copy of "Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone." In one year his reading level went from ungradeable to a sixth grade level. My advice to you is, see a good pediatric neurologist, make sure all of his teachers understand his indiosyncratic behavior,and make friends with the school nurse and the counselors. I spend a lot of time talking to all of them and it has helped my son a great deal. Good luck and feel free to email me if you need anything.
Chris
Alex,
While Colin, Ryan, Greg, and Brad have all appeared on the British original WLIIA, I don't believe I've seen Wayne Brady appear on that version. Does anyone know if I'm right or wrong?
Best,
Shane
Lynn,
No, for shorthand purposes I could have easily said, "the black guy." I labeled Colin the bald guy and Ryan the tall guy.
BTW, I made an error when I said, "He also had his own show briefly last summer and even briefer last fall." His show returned this spring, however briefly.
Best,
Shane
ROB: As I said...'too British'. The fact that these nimrods are changing the setting of a story that is QUINTESSENTIALLY BRITISH to an American location just displays how clueless they truly are. I mean, just think how hilarious (and cool) it would be for well-mannered, well-bred, up-tight Victorian ladies and gentlemen to scurry this way and that with cries of "Cor blimey!" and "Goodness gracious!" as Martian monstrosities stalk towards them.
DENNIS: Thanks for the address, and I loved the designs. LOVED them. Now, if we get the action back to England, we're ready to rock 'n' roll. If there IS to be no originality in Hollywood to come, let them please return at least to the good, sturdy, meaty classics of old.
Oh, and...'Wushu'?
re WHOSE LINE IS IT ANYWAY: Drew and Clive rival each other in great yuks very nicely. I don't really like comparing the two; to me, it'll always be just WHOSE LINE IS IT ANYWAY. Favourite skits: poor ol' Colin as Captain Hair. Ryan as Dr. "His Name's Garry!" Frankenstein. Wayne as Chucky, the evil doll. Heavy death metal songs called WE DON'T NEED NO STINKIN' BRACES. And on, and on, and on...
LW (Benjamin A.A. Winfield)
Dennis-- Last month's issue of Harper's Magazine (May, I believe) had a very lengthy and interesting article about a man who the author believed had Asperger's called "The Boy Who Loved Trains" (something like that). It was about a man who was obsessed with mass transit.
The magazine is in my car, but if you ha