Chuck:
I'm thinking of it: "with nasty, sharp, point teeth!"
(There are some who call me ... Tim ....)
Rick -
I can't fairly comment now, except to offer a can of New Diet "Pep Talk" and invite you to share a smile or two at the "Wyatt's Steakhouse" bar and grill where there's a bunch of nostalgic crap on the walls, perky servers with buttons and suspenders...blah blah blah...ANYTHING to cheer that droopy ass up off the sweaty, stinky wrestling mat to which life has obviously pinned and spanked you.
Jesus, man. Brilliant bit of writing. The question isn't "You okay?" but "You sound like shit, Longfellow. What can I do to help?"
Regards,
Jay
All right, once more, but without the "Banana Fingers Syndrome":
Rick: Leaving Okay. I never gave the expression "You okay?" any thought. I liked your take on the whole idea of how "okay" is actually rather blah. Do we really go around THAT anesthetized to our own feelings? Got me thinking, Rick. I like your attitude toward the impending changes in your life.
If it gets too hot, and YOU start tasting metal, drop in and tell the gang about it. Or write it up in Rants a let us know.
Chuck
Rick: Leaving Okay. I never gave the expression "You okay?" any thought. I liked your take on the whole idea of how "okay" is actually rather blah. Do we really go around THAT
Scariest Story: Well, Chris' story of the weird phone call during fever delerium was certainly creepy. The one that still lives with me, that brought me to this here b-board is I HAVE NO MOUTH AND I MUST SCREAM. It stays with me. Grail lives within my mind also, but not in a creepy way.
I thought Todd's sister in the basement story was a hoot. I always wondered if the guys in the stinky rubber monster suits was creepy or heroic - you know, lumbering around under those hot lights, stomping model buildings and matchbox cars. I guess that image has it's own creepiness, especially when reality seems to be imitating the movie.
Creepiest movie: I'll also nominate SECONDS. That's one of the films that I kept thinking about long after I saw it. And Rob is right, Rock's performance will stay with you as well. Best he ever gave. Written by Lewis John Carlino.
Scariest Movie Ever: NIGHT OF THE LEPUS. Think about it. There were actually people, proffessionals, earning a salary, who were stupid enough to think a movie about *SIX FOOT TALL BUNNY RABBITS* was scary. They actually got money to make this thing. The had a crew. For all I know somebody might have actually written it. (shudder)
Story conference:
"Killer? Bunnies?"
"Yeah, big ones. They kinda eat people 'n stuff."
"I dunno. Aren't bunnies kinda...well...cute? Kinda cuddly?"
"Well, I was bit by one once. It was kinna scary, y'know?"
Silence.
"Well, y'know, we'll give 'em bigger teeth, an' put blood on their mouths, an' use that back projection thingy to make 'em look bigger."
Other guy scratches his head. First guy brightens. He has an idea.
"I know! We'll hire Stuart Whitman! He can't get arrested now. He'll do anything. Big killer bunnies. It'll be scary. Kinda a ecology angle 'n stuff."
"Yeah. It might work. Yeah. Killer bunnies. That'll be scary."
I think about how this might have happened, and the room spins, it gets all hot and it hurts and stuff and I'm tasting metal....
Killer bunnies. Think about it.
Chuck
"Tell me about the rabbits George."
May I highly suggest that if you haven't already done so, please pop over to Mr. Wyatt's rant page and read an excellent bit of writing from our esteemed host, entitled "Leaving Okay."
http://www.harlanellison.com/rants/rt020227.htm
L.
Cool, Rick, cool.
I thought, for a few minutes of telling you how I feel, relative to what you were telling me about yourself.
Then, I decided, you don't need to hear my shit.
But I did want to say: This is a good thing, where you is. Good for you.
H
TODD!!!!!!!
God DAMN that was so FUNNY!! The sister in the basement story is fantastic!!!
If you never intend to use that scene in a story-- can I have it for a short film or perhaps a script?
If not -- I don't blame you.
God DAMN that was funny!!!!!!!!!!
Thank you! I needed to laugh like that tonight.
Cindy
Cronenberg: I need to see more of his work to be fair. 'The Fly' remake was the best I've seen from him, I enjoyed the hell out of it; and I liked 'Naked Lunch' (as unfilmable as Burroughs is). I liked neither 'The Brood' nor 'Scanners' (though I might give the latter a second chance sometime; occasionally my reaction to a film depends on my mood at that particular moment. For the nonce I prefer George Pal's treatment of the story). VIDEODROME looks like the one I'd really like to see; its images appeal to my taste for surrealism.
Circling back to the subject of the first title, cut the 50's version of 'The Fly' SOME slack. It had a very tight budget and some dopey things, as most genre movies from that period did, and David Hedison (Al at the time) - a very good actor - fought for the approach the remake took decades later in the gradual degeneration of the good doctor. He too thought the 'head' idea was lame but he lost to the producer's stupidity. But its script did a good job building pathos, its success owed entirely to the actors. I don't give a fuck about its absurdities, I enjoyed every viewing.
Hey, 'Seconds': a film I just got on tape and hadn't seen in many years. It's SO remarkable; John Frankenheimer was a dynamic director with a cold calculating eye. And I doubt Rock Hudson was ever better or more 'radical'; he is an older businessman surgically altered through the services of a mysterious organization - very much a forerunner of 'The Village' in 'The Prisoner', evoking Kafka - to restore his youth and escape a dreary life, leaving his wife behind. He joins a commune of hippies partying in the buff but ultimately fails to rediscover himself. When he wants to return to his old life...well, what they do to him...it's not something I'll give away...but you've never seen Rock Hudson like THIS. You will not forget the images shifting between reality and those in his mind.
Anyone who hasn't seen this film, check it out. It was done just a few years after 'Manchurian Candidate'.
Rick -
Here is your requested reminder about the Ugly Baby Page.
"Where da page homie?"
Faisal:
Well, I've come to respect quite of bit of Cronenberg's later works, when he began to mature as a film maker, and make films more in-depth than "The Brood", and "Rabid", although, I've really come to like his first film "Shivers" more with every viewing.
"The Fly" seemed more a diversion for me, a film he made in order to get funding for larger projects. It reads as a generic "mad scientist" film, with the logical conclusion that science irresponsibly used will become the scientist's undoing. Jeff Goldblum is interestingly quirky, and Geena Davis looks great and is adequate, but I didn't see anything here that impressed me except the excellent makeup effects done by Chris Walas, who had worked with Cronenberg on "Scanners". The job done to depict Brundle's deterioration into the human/fly fusion was incredible.
The later works of Cronenberg are what catch my eye, when he truly began to experiment with subject matter, such as fusing sexuality with technology in "Existenz", or "Videodrome", or the dynamic of the twin relationship in "Dead Ringers", or his two superlative films: "Naked Lunch", and "Crash". These are the ones that impress me with the creative risks he was taking, and seemingly unafraid to do so.
Well, the wife is home, and is quite happy. Apparently the sale is going better than anticipated. With that, I'll sign off now.
Scott
Creepiest story.
Well, I doubt any story can top the reality of hearing the confessions of a 911 operator. I dated a girl who was a campus counselor for three years and worked as an EMT who volunteered working the 911 switchboard some weekend overnights.
Some stories just shouldn't be told.
On the issue concerning Charles Edward Pogue's script for The Fly. I have a copy of the early drafts of the screenplay which was credited to Pogue and Walon Green (writer of The Wild Bunch and the unmade Verhoven/Schwaznegger vehicle Crusaders) dated January 1985. I don't think this is the draft that Cronenberg recieved that initally piqued his interest in the film, but its interesting to compare it to the final film.
It would be extremly unfair to estimate how much of Pogues contribution was based on this particular draft but I would like to point out that Cronenberg has talked about Pogue's original script in the book Cronenberg on Cronenberg and what he did and didn't like about the script as well as claiming that he asked the WGA to place Pogue's name ahead of his own in the 'screenplay by' credit.
I can say a fair bit of the script was re-interpreted by Cronenberg and characters of Seth Brundle and his girlfriend are mostly his work.
The Pogue/Green draft does have the inner transformation of Geoff Powell (aka Seth Brundle) after he has absorbed the fly which is what makes the film so unique. Also the genesis of the maggot dream sequence is Pogue's as well as the ending. Think less re-writing and more of a fusion between Cronenberg and Pogue.
On a seperate topic, most people aren't aware that David Cronenberg was once going to direct Total Recall with DDLC which had Richard Dreyfuss attached. Some of Cronenberg's touches can be found in the final film. The two strongest ideas were the scene where the Psychiatrist visits Quail to convince him that the whole Mars experience is a faulty dream implant and the touch where Quail doesn't want to go back to his original personality... who was really a bad guy.
Scott - What makes you think I'm offended by your comments? I'm not, so stay cool. Though I also have to disagree with you concerning The Fly. Its a tragic love story so plays differently than the shockohorror of the original. Cronenberg makes some emotionally intense films and thats why they resound with me for so long.
Joe - That title needs to be earned. A McG film is suppossed to be taken seriously for Charlies Angel? You'd be happy to know that Mike Hodges shares the 'A film by' credit with the screenwriter Paul Mayersberg.
FAQ
Actually, the previous discussion of the expectant teenager puts me in mind of one of the scariest books I ever read: An American Tragedy by Dreiser. Maybe it wasn't the main intention of the book, but the passages dealing with Roberta's attempts to find a way out of her predicament and ultimate failure to escape her fate were just chilling to me. Her complete lack of options, and society's callousness to her plight created an almost claustrophobic-like air of panic than ensured my pro-abortion vote for life.
Oddly enough, I remember almost nothing about the guy's story, which was actually the main plotline...but her part--brrr.
**has anyone had the experience of reading a fiction that resonated waaaay too closely to your reality of the moment – enough to frighten you – or at least creep you out? **
OK, not exactly, and you'll get a chuckle out of the movie I was watching....which will forever be associated with pure terror for the rest of my life. Goofy.
I'm about 13/14 years old. It's a Saturday afternoon, dreary, rainy...almost sleety...cold Saturday afternoon in the late fall. I'm watching War Of The Gargantuas on teevee (yes, that's right, the Japanese giant somethingorother monster movies about two giant monster creeps who fight each other).
I'm alone in the house. At some point, I get up to get a snack...AND THE FUCKING BASEMENT DOOR BEGINS TO OPEN! If I had not just shit earlier in the day, you know what color my pants would have been! It opens out.....and it's just a few feet from me....and I can't believe what's happening and I leap at it with all my strength and slam it closed thinking "no one there.....just the wind or somesuch shit" but the door pushes back at me. Yup....there is someone there and he is fighting me with the door. Holey Fucking Shit!
So I struggle and the Gargantuas are screaming behind me as they destroy a building or something and I'm pushing and finally I get the door closed and slam the deadbolt lock (a very weak lock, I know it can be easily forced).
Then I go sliding on the faux marble floor in my socks to the front door....burst out onto our porch, trying to decide which way to run in the shitty, dreary, ice cold rain....and my heart is beating louder than the rain hitting the driveway....and
I hear a very muffled whine behind me..."Toooooood. Toooooood."
It takes a few seconds, and then I realize....my goddamn sister. She was down in the basement with her friends, smoking dope or something she shouldn't have been doing which is why I thought I was alone in the house....they were so damn quiet. I still take tentative steps to the basement door to make sure I'm hearing right, and I am. I open it, and she curses, but sees how terrified I must have been and begins cracking up instead of bitching and moaning about how I almost caused her to tumble down the wooden steps and break her neck.
Bitch. Now I can never watch that stupid Japanese movie again without getting a chill in my chest.
-TODD
Heigh Ho, kids are successfully fed, and all is tranquil in the land of Scott...
Ah, the bi-weekly Ellison rant, to remind us we do not think for ourselves, that we are all mindless slaves to a trash culture...
...of which each and every of us has sifted through to find the "Smoking E" as one of those who rises above the mass media filth, and we did this by ourselves, with no help from the man. Just thinking it odd, mind you.
BTW, I was well aware Cronenberg's remake was one, and while I think it one of his weakest efforts based on the fact of being a remake, I was at least spared the idiocy of watching the often caricatured scene where a man's head is edited onto a fly body (CGI alert) as he cries is a high pitch wail...
...You're saying the line. You don't want to, but you are.
Scary Movie or Book? I don't really have any movie I would consider as scary in the idea that I'd be peeking back over my shoulder to ensure the terror on the screen wasn't coming for me.
Book? Pretty much the same; I just see the page as actually removing the fear, by allowing me the ability to dismiss the creation intended to scare by saying that this is something formed in the mind, not in the room.
Sorry, reality is frightening enough. And I've had my fair share of that.
Scott
Berman,
"What the hell are you talking about?"
If this morning's schizophrenic babbling left you bewildered wait and see what tomorrow brings.
**has anyone had the experience of reading a fiction that resonated waaaay too closely to your reality of the moment – enough to frighten you – or at least creep you out? **
Not in the creep-out mode but watching Ghost World, I was very disturbed at how very true and real Seymour's character felt. When he gets cut off by a car and sits there cursing and gesticulating to nobody, I thought 'Oh my God, that's me!'
Then the whole business with his record collection - I feel the same love/shame relationship with my comic book collection.
Right on the mark and a little disconcerting to me.
Er, yeha, make that last line "in mid-December in Philadelphia."
January came from the fact that I originally wrote that post as mid-January until I got to the part where I went to check on my grandfather's obituary and then realized that meant the eventshad to have taken place in mid-December, not January.
That was the one and only time in my life I allowed myself, for just a few minutes, to truly believe in the supernatural.
I blame it on the fever though.
Remind me to tell you sometime about my first morning ever spent in Utah when I woke up to see a gun pointed at me.
Even More Lost HERC members
Audrey Snowden, Cleveland Heights, OH.
Robert brabham, Columbia, SC.
Many Thanks--Susan
Scary Movie - House on the Haunted Hill – 1958 – Written by Robb White – Directed by William Castle
Terrified me when I saw it as a child. Made quite an impact. I find psychological or well made supernatural horror far scarier than splatter/gore movies.
Scary Book - Fear written by L Ron Hubbard. Again, the psychological terror is what makes it scary for me.
Chris, that is very spooky.
Cheers,
Kerry
Chris,
Creepy story. But did you mean something else besides January in that last line?
Regards,
Joseph
Scary movies and books – I seem to recall, during an earlier incarnation of this discussion on this board, someone said that they weren't scared by movies.
This is my position. At least not anymore.
The only movie that ever scared me – and I mean terrified me long past the time actual film was over was The Exorcist. Being in my early teens, watching in an other empty house, at night, just before bed, probably helped. As did my early indoctrination in the Roman Catholic church.
I haven't ever been scared like that since.
Oh, sure – I've been startled during films more times than I can count, been sitting on the edge of my seat, pulse pounding – but I've never finished a film and remained scared by it or it's premise.
Books – no fiction has ever frightened me like King's Misery. It doesn't have ghosts or ghouls or things that go bump in the night – just a wacked "Number One Fan". My mood may have been helped by the fact that I was associated with an ex-girlfriend who bore a remarkable resemblence to Kathy Bates and had declared herself a fan of my writing.
Or it could be coincidence.
In any case, I'm creeped out by certain realities far more than fiction any day.
But this thought, and Chris L's comments below lead me to another topic – has anyone had the experience of reading a fiction that resonated waaaay too closely to your reality of the moment – enough to frighten you – or at least creep you out? Misery did that for me – man, I shudder just thinking about it...
I don't know how many scary books I've really read.
I wouldn't call _Hell House_ truly scary (though it is very good) but it was part of the scariest evening of my life.
This is a true story.
It was mid-December a year or two ago and I was battling a minor cold, running a bit of a fever. I felt a little light-headed and couldn't sleep because of the fever so I wound up staying up very late, reading _Hell House._
The wind outside began to pick up throughout the night and I was startled a few times when tree branches scraped against the window. But that happens from time to time. Suddenly, around 3 a.m., the lights flicker - they get very bright then *poof* they go out...
Only to come right back on. Not even long enough to force me to reset any of the digital clocks. I think about getting up to get a flashlight just in case I have a power line about to go down but the fever has sapped some of my will and I just stay in bed.
Ten minutes later, *KABOOM* a peal of thunder splits the air! I don't even register it as thunder first. I think my roof must be falling in or my car exploded in the driveway. Keep in mind this is mid-December in Philadelphia. The high for the previous day had been 40 degrees! But when I see a streak of lightning through the window followed by another thundercrack, I understand what's happening.
I'm shaken but not stirred from my lethargy and I keep reading though I feel decidedly weirded out at this point. The thunderstorm lasts for another fifteen minutes and dies out. I keep reading _Hell House_ nearing the end.
Five minutes later, the lights go out again. They stay out this time so I stumble downstairs to get the flashlight just as the lights go back on. This time, power was out long enough and I have to go around the house resetting the clocks.
As I am resetting the clock in the back bedroom to 3:40 a.m., the phone rings.
I almost hit the ceiling with my terrified jump. I stare at the phone. It keeps ringing. I think "No way am I answering that" but after eight rings, I think it might be an emergency. Maybe my grandmother is having a problem and needs help. So I answer the phone.
"Hello?"
A pause and then a sobbing voice says...
"Alfred is dead."
I turn white.
"What?"
"Alfred is dead."
Alfred was my grandfather's name. He committed suicide ten years ago.
In mid-December.
"I... I think you have the wrong number."
The sobbing, earnest voice continues.
"No, no. Alfred is dead."
Alfred was my grandfather's name. He shot himself in the head with his handgun ten years ago.
In mid-December.
"I... I'm sorry. You have the wrong number."
I hang up. I just have the presence of mind to dial *69. Number is out of the area.
Now I scramble for the drawers where I keep the "death memorabilia" from my family. I know there is a news clipping there of my grandfather's obituary. Confused and feverish, I can't remember the exact date my grandfather killed himself. If I look at this clipping and see it's the same date, ten years ago, I have already decided I'm getting out of the house. Immediately. And not coming back.
Hands shaking, I dig out the clipping. No, not the same data. About a week off.
Unable to continue reading, I go downstairs and turn on the TV. They are running an early morning news program, tracking the thunderstorm. They also show the current temperature of 71 degrees. At 4 a.m. in mid-December in January.
And that was a true story. Honest.
Not to piggy-back on Harlan's comment, but I pray for the day I see the death of credits like "A Film By ________" or "_____________'s Whatever." It's ridiculously insulting not only to the writer (though especially to the writer), but also to every damn person who worked on the film, from the cinematographer right down to the guy who handed the star a bran muffin to calm him down enough to get him back on set.
To paraphrase Kevin Smith, "It's insulting to all the people who put such hard work into the movies I direct, and it also makes it a lot harder to spread the blame if it blows up in my face."
Regards,
Joseph
TWO INTERJECTIONS:
LITTLE WASHU: Thank you for the laudatory posting. Of course, I was right. Was there ever any question of my cosmic rightness? Foolish mortal! Now: go forth and sin no more.
All this talk of "David Cronenberg's THE FLY" as being a great film, as well as a great horror film . . .
I absolutely agree. One of the extremely rare examples of a sequel that far surpasses the original version of a film.
And as those who have read my declarations on numerous occasions elsewhere have been abundantly apprised, I am a stone righteous admirer of Cronenberg, whom I consider one of the very few truly original, sui generis, directors in the game. My full-out, unreserved adulation for virtually everything he's ever done, is unparalleled by others' approbation.
BUT . . .
If it is "Cronenberg's" THE FLY, it is only 50% Cronenberg's THE FLY, onaccounta
HE DIDN'T WRITE THE FUCKIN' SCRIPT, YOU BUNCH OF AUTEUR-ZOMBIES!!
The brilliant screenplay was written by my friend Charles Edward Pogue. It says so on the credits, which, despite my valiant efforts, I cannot seem triumphantly able to get you tunnel-visioned sycophants to read and REMEMBER. The Director is an accomplish artisan, but s/he is just the carpenter. The scenarist is the architect. The film did not create itself. Those lines spoken by Geena Davis and Jeff Goldblum did not appear full-blown in their noggins like Socratic epiphanies. THEY WERE WRITTEN! By Charles Edward Pogue.
Kindly try to save me the choler produced by slovenly comments such as "Cronenberg's THE FLY" in the future. And when parvenus, genXers, and arrivistes blossom here in that halcyon upcoming era, and they gaffe thus, I will expect the lynch-mob of you to rush in and repaint the graffito posthaste, before I have to come back, even testier, and declare, I KNOW WHAT YOU DID LAST POSTING because that's when the killing starts.
Yr. pal, Harlan
You know, maybe I'm a slightly twisted person, but my 1st reaction to seeing a picture of Emmylou Harris from the Grammies last night was "Mman. She still has the most bad-ass hair on the planet."
Jay,
What the hell, are you shadowing me? I noticed those quotes as well - also had the weird experience of seeing a quote from somone I personally know (it's Eric Thornton, of Chicago Comics, who has a quote at the end of the "Batman: 10-Cent Adventure story).
Regards,
Joseph "not a morose motherfucker" Finn
The horror, the horror:
Little Washu: How's this for a plug? If you were disappointed by the epic horror of *The Stand* you may not be disappointed by Dan Simmons's *Carrion Comfort* and Robert McCammon's *Swan Song.* The former is, I think, accurately described as technohorror or science horror, and it's truly disturbing and large-scale and satisfying. McCammon's book appearss to have been bounced off the templates of *The Stand* and *A Canticle for Leibowitz* in a number of places; it's a neat book if you have the time for 700 pages of apocalyptic horror fantasy.
Dan Thorne: Good call on EIII. Lovely, modulated performances by Jason Miller, Brad Dourif, and Nicol Williamson; a great, over-the-top performance by George C. Scott; a smart script that shuns graphic horror for intelligent conversation and suspense building. I love the Exorcist III. Some of Scott's line delivery in that is truly operatic, although in defending his performance to a friend, I argued that people faced by the forces of evil should probably be allowed to over-emote whenever they want to. All that and well-thought-out references to *Macbeth* and *It's a Wonderful Life* and allusions to *Psycho* and the Jack Benny film *The Horn Blows at Midnight.* And Fabio and Patrick Ewing as angels! What a fucking fantastic movie!
Jay: Harlan was feeling a mite peckish in that interview, wasn't he?
Horror in general: Not many things scare me in the sense that they linger. Some do inspire a sense of changed perspective, which is I guess what I'd call the lingering effects of terror.
Scary and/or terrifying shorts and novellas: "The Boogeyman" and "The Man in the Black Suit" by Stephen King. "Sticks" by Karl Edward Wagner. "Who Goes There?" by John W. Campbell. "Faith of our Fathers" by Philip K. Dick. The Silver John story with the cottage, the long-waiting bride, the treacherous and now-aged groom, and the really creepy creatures shuffling, flying, and crawling all over the place (sorry -- I couldn't find my copy of *Who Fears the Devil?* for the exact title) by Manly Wade Wellman. Pretty much anything by Ramsey Campbell. "Bunny is Good Bread" by Peter Straub. "At the Mountains of Madness" and "the Colour Out of Space" by H.P. Lovecraft. "The Small Assassin" by Ray Bradbury. "Smoke Ghost" by Fritz Leiber. "The Whimper of Whipped Dogs" by Harlan Ellison.
Novels: *It.* *Song of Kali.* *Carrion Comfort.* *Salem's Lot.* *Dracula.* *Something Wicked This Way Comes.* *Red Dragon.* *Midnight Sun.* *The Hungry Moon.* *Fevre Dream.*
Special citation for trilogy: *Koko*, *Mystery* and *The Throat* by Peter Straub.
Best editors of horror and dark fantasy: T.E.D. Klein; Karl Edward Wagner.
What great books those Karl Edward Wagner-edited "Year's Best Horror Stories" were -- he was a fine editor and a fine writer.
Jon
Totally subjective responses:
Scariest Movie: NIGHT OF THE LIVING DEAD. This movie terrified me from the moment it was released (while still a young'un) until any evening that I walk to take out the garbage and stare into the woods behind my home, wondering how many living dead might be slowly approaching from behind the trees. This movie has supplied me with more nightmares over the last 3+ decades than anything else I've ever seen or read.
Scariest Book: SALEM'S LOT. I read this book while vacationing in Cape Cod with the family.....a very lonely and odd time, as my father was battling cancer and not having an easy time of a remission approaching it's end. I was 19, and I took the book out with me to the kids playground area late at night and read some of it's scariest chapters while I sat alone in the dark with just the distant parking lot lights illuminating the pages. Scared the shit out of me, but I stayed 'safely' in the dark rather than return to our room to face the true fear that we all have.
-TODD
Thanks to Melissa, Peg and Chris for your thoughts: yeah, I'm more interested in what happens now. Of course, she has decisions and thoughts. I don't know her whole story. I do know that she has a large and supportive Irish Catholic family. I do not know what her status is with the boyfriend. I do know that she is a talented young woman who is academically responsible. It's early in the pregnancy and I don't know who else knows (family;friends etc.). And quite frankly, none of that is any of my business really. I promised to keep the information confidential. I even worry that discussing it here may be breaking that confidence, though I'm certain this nameless girl has appeared on many college and high-school campuses.
She has a lot of talent and I don't want to see her get hung up---though anyway you slice it, this is definitely going to sidetrack her for a while. Abort? Surrender for adoption? Mother?
All I can say is I'm glad that I wasn't in her shoes when I was her age. I had the good luck to at least face it in a solid relationship.
I think you all are right. The best thing to do is just let her know that I'm here for her. At the same time, I must be a realistic teacher. I personally want her to continue singing. Not because I wanna do her any favors, but because it will be a pain in the ass for me to go out and recruit another alto and teach her a semester and a half's worth of music. At the same time, I know what it's like to have to sing when you are pregnant. Singing is all about the entire body as an instrument. Pregnancy changes the instrument. Not to mention, music requires great concentration and it's pretty damn hard to concentrate when your attention must be turned to solving a more immediate, pressing, and important problem.
If she has to leave, perhaps the solution would be for me to sing alto. What the hell. It's not against the law.
P.A. BERMAN: Yeah, I went a bit AWOL there too. Sorry 'bout that. I never deliberately intend to start arguments, but I seem to have a habit of voluntarily sticking my foot in my mouth on a regular schedule. For example, I could say a completely innocent if slightly dopey comment such as, "Gee, Adolf Hitler made some nice paintings," and then some quick-tempered fellow could scream "YOU LIKE ADOLF HITLER!!!!! THEREFORE YOU HATE JEWS AND BLACKS AND ANY GUY WITH MORE THAN ONE TESTICLE!!!!!! YOU ARE A RASCIST PIG THAT DOESN'T DESERVE TO LIVE!!!!!" ad nauseum.
(Oh, and Adolf's paintings do suck, by the way.)
On the subject of 'scariest films', I just recalled Tod Browning's FREAKS, aka SPURS. While indeed a classic by any means, I think somewhere within that film lies the heart of a hypocrite. It's commonly critiqued as displaying the ordinary people as the true monsters (i.e. Cleopatra and her strongman lover) but doesn't the finale seem to only CONFIRM that the 'freaks' are indeed monsters? I mean, sure, you can say Cleopatra was such an unbelievable bitch that she deserved to be mutilated and deformed into a hideous chicken-lady...but doesn't that only seem to say that the freaks ARE vengeful creatures of darkness that'll turn you into a fellow abomination if you cross them even once?
Personally I don't really think people who are horribly disfigured or 'unusual' don't need a revenge movie for their sakes. They have enough problems on their own to deal with.
But then again, I'm a white, christian, heterosexual male, so I'm shit out of luck. Dagnabbit.
Little Washu
I won't comment on scariest movie because I don't think I have one. I love horror movies and I have favorites but they are favorites because of personal reasons. I saw such-and-such as a kid and it scared me so it holds a special place, that sort of thing.
Scariest book. It's hard so I'll throw out my top three: The Girl Next Door by Jack Ketchum, IT by King, and, one I just read (finally) last month, Song of Kali by Dan Simmons. All for completely different reasons.
Back to lurking,
Bill
Ahh, hello everyone. It's been along week. I want to take this opportunity to thank Kevin Smith (as I know he lurks on the board...bunnngg) for the skintight catsuits in his epic and visionary work _Jay & Silent Bob Strike Back_, and providing excellent talent to fill them.
It's dumb. It's cliche. It's self-serving, but I absolutely love it. It came at the perfect time for me. So, I mention it just to add a counterpoint to the intellectual disection of literary and cinematic masterworks.
On my plate this weekend, "Crying of Lot 49" and a good deal of sleep. Oh... and ran across a lovely quote in Wizard magazine this week. See if you can guess the source of this quote:
"I will live to piss in the open mouths or open graves of my enemies, whichever comes first." - Wizard #97
Can't guess? Maybe this'll help. Same source:
"Everybody thinks when you become an artist, you're supposed to work for nothing. Fuck you. Who's gonna put food on my table?" - Wizard #97
Ah yes. Taking it all down a notch for the good of the karma. Everybody just chill. Grab a beer, a biscuit or a cup of herbal tea - whatever is your thing, man. Be well.
Jay
I liked The Fly until the final act, when, like so many Cronenburg movies, we got overwhelmed in goo and latex.
Videodrome, Dead Ringers, Naked Lunch...there's always the element of the repulsive in his films that makes them hard to watch, and takes away from potentially good, original stories.
I remember watching the original Fly as a kid, and it scared the hell out of me. The scene with the giant press at the end...yowch. Two on a Guillotine was another one.
King Lurk
The movies that scared me the most? I can't think of many. _Alien_ was one, but that rests mainly on two sequences the expedition to the derelict spaceship, and the hunt in the air shafts. _Halloween_'s stuck with me as an example of the most basic horror movie ever made, and I did like _The Blair Witch Project_ a lot.
But the two that really stick with me as really _terrifying_ movies work in very different ways. I really admire _The Texas Chainsaw Massacre_, for example. For the first hour or so, the film makes you understand that the characters are out in the middle of _nowhere_, and that they could be swallowed up by damn near _anything_.
However, David Cronenberg's remake of _The Fly_ was probably the most terrifying film I've ever seen. Once you buy the idea of the teleporter as a gene-splicer (a stretch, I admit), you're watching as an extremely likable character is turning into a genuine monster; there's the bit about "how Brundlefly eats," of course, which is wisely left to the imagination at first, and that gut-wrenching scene in the redneck bar where Goldblum snaps the man's arm in two.
Apart from that, I tend to think of sequences from particular horror movies-- and even then, I tend to like elements with really wild dark humor. The whole of George Romero's last two _Dead_ movies, and the chase through the suburban ouse in his film _Martin_ stand out in memory. There's Brad Dourif's monologue in the middle of _Exorcist III_, a bright spot in an otherwise dire movie. And the discovery of the manuscript in _The Shining_ was scarier than anything in King's book-- which I did like, BTW.
Actually, upon consideration of a conversation that I had with Lynn recently, I take back my last, snippy post. I apologize to the board for any sullying I may have done here.
Rob, Little Washu, don't quite know what your "issue" with me is these days, nor where the personal attacks are coming from, but I think slinging shit, no matter in what good humor (not sure if it is or not) should cease. So let's chill out, can we?
This one was for you, Lynn,
Bermanator
Rob: What the hell are you talking about?
Wait, don't answer that. I don't care.
Go to the library with Ben, I mean Little Washu, and read some books, willya? You guys deserve each other.
Bermanator
Berman,
To apologize to YOU is to be fawning and kiss-ass, even if self-serving as to be in good graces and I ain't gonna put up with it. Y'don't d'zoive it.
I know how to handle..."your kind". I've had friends who were teachers: one grade school, two high school, one college. They, like you, would make inane, short-sighted comments - outright stupid, in fact - demonstrating they needed as much learnin' as anyone else.
Go back and make an intelligent assessment of 'Forbidden Planet'; read 'The Age of Reason' by Thomas Paine; finish chewing your food before speaking, and you'll be on the road to self-improvement.
With Shit-Slingin' Love,
Rob
(I feel like the townsfolk of Dayton when they were pelting John Scopes, in an odd twist; it's a GOOD feeling...savagery is bliss).
Scariest Book: MY ISSUES by P.A. Berman.
Seriously though, I actually find that the short-story format is a far better medium to channel terror. Ray Bradbury's THE CROWD ranks up there as his most disturbing work, second only to THE COLOUR OUT OF SPACE by H.P. Lovecraft.
Scariest movies? ERASERHEAD and John Carpenter's THE THING. Right on.
Little Washu
Faisal: I think I worded my comment incorrectly. I know that the child was not that of the Christopher Walken/Brooke Adams characters. It was the child of the Brooke Adams character and her husband. Having it turn out to be that child (whose name is also Denny, by the way) was pouring it on a bit thick. Sorry if the way I posted it before was not clear.
Dennis
OK, let's take a survey: what's the scariest movie you ever saw and book you ever read?
Scariest movie: Alien, then Exorcist
Scariest book: 1984 and Red Dragon
You guys?
Bermanator
Ghost Story was good too, if you can get by Craig Wasson. Of course, I saw it in the theater, high as a kite...
King Lurk
Ghost Story was good too, if you can get by Craig Wasson. Of course, I saw it in the theater, high as a kite...
King Lurk
Scariest film: Exorcist III
(Yea, you're laughing if you haven't seen it. But those who have, aren't!)
Good morning, one and all. I'm doing one of my bi-annual weeks selling my wares at our local mall, so I've got to make this fast. I've had a good week so far, and am working to make sure it continues.
Peg: You said;
"You said she is/was "just a victim of circumstance, and nothing more." I, too, hope the young lady in question is doing well, and I feel for her in the struggles and decisions she will have to face. However, I don't agree that she is a victim of anything, other than her own judgement and actions (assuming she had consentual sex)."
Well, no excuses from me; you're right on. I made the mistake of seeing the act as separate from the decision to do it, and that's wrong. I look at my own decisions in this matter, and no, I didn't go into marriage pure in virtue myself. It's nothing to be ashamed of, the only difference being that my choice didn't bear the consequences the young lady's seemed to.
Sorry to have to put it so shortly, but I've a full truckload of ceramics that need to get to the mall, and I've got to get going now. If I didn't write this at the moment, you might not have heard from me for a while.
Wishing you a safe and enjoyable trip to California, if I read some of your prior postings correctly, and a bit of love for all others,
Melissa
Decided I might as well add my 2 cents on the King/Kubrick thread, but just to be completely safe I re-watched Kubrick's film last night. Yes, I did made a statement before about the whole business, but that was done a bit too prematurely and I myself am fascinated by the film. A few things struck me that didn't before:
1. Did you notice the bizarre presence of the Looney Tunes throughout the film? You can hear them as Danny is watching television with Wendy near the beginning, and just before Wendy goes downstairs armed with a bat, and Danny's all zonked out. You can clearly hear the tunes for 'The Road Runner Show'.
2. Shelley Duvall doesn't strike me as an overly good actress. Check out the scene where she's being threatened by Jack as she backs up the stairway. The scene comes off as comical rather than frightening (and Nicholson hamming it up even more than Porky Pig doesn't help, either.) Her friction with Kubrick on the set is hardly a secret...but HE picked her for the role, didn't he?
3. I've heard many people say that the opening credits absolutely terrified them, which is a bit peculiar, but listening to the music and the imagery again I think I can see why. The big screen is ALWAYS a completely different experience; in there, the atmosphere and the dread can totally consume you in the darkness of the theater. There IS something disconcerting about that music...it reminds me of our cat on his less cheerful days...
4. Kubrick is a natural-born perfectionist, but what was with the helicopter's shadow that could be easily spotted, also in the opening sequence?
5. I think Jack didn't ALWAYS come off as being whacko. Look at the sequence where he's talking to Ullman at the interview. He comes off as being pretty calm and sensible, doesn't he?
6. Jack Nicholson doesn't quite work as a family man...there doesn't seem to be anything between him and Wendy except irritation. He actually seems more in connection with his son...especially the moment when Danny talks with Jack on the bed in the last moment of sanity before Jack goes gaga.
As for the ending, I actually think it closed the story in a more satisfying way then nuking the hotel in King's version. Jack follows Danny into the maze like a deranged animal. Danny is a CHILD, and yet outwits Jack completely and escapes with his mother. Jack is left to his own desolation and destruction. There is no redemption for the pain Jack inflicted on himself; like Macbeth, he's damned for his own actions. Oh, the hotel may have had a bloody hand in it, but Jack ultimately was the one who LET the hotel get to him. I could only pity the bastard.
So, I think I had sympathy for both King's and Kubrick's interpretations of Jack, but Kubrick's Jack struck me as far more pathetic and bleak.
So there you have it...my 2 cents on 'The Shining'.
By the way, did anyone here get through King's THE STAND? I did, and the final feeling I had was that of disappointment. Like a lot of other big books I managed to finish...SHOGUN, anyone?
Little Washu
Little Washu: No sure how you gleaned that I was "freaking out." If you think that was freaking out, you need to recalibrate your Freak-o-Meter, kid. We were having a friendly debate about the relative merits and flaws of _The Shining_ which I did not want to see quashed by someone's delicate sensitivities. You are free not to read posts that do not interest you. I merely pointed that out.
Also please don't threaten me with your "backlash." This old pedant calls that peevishly bad form and asking for trouble around these here parts.
Rob: I know you love me because you're girding up your loins for me. Woo hoo. Soi-disant my ass. And look up the word "sycophantic"-- LW was far from it.
Bermanator
Morning, all. And, how are you at 3 AM, EST?
Faisal:
I'm not picking on Kubrick's work, just being critical of it. I treat him like all people: no hype; not everything they do is a masterpiece because their name is attached. I respect what folks do well; I criticise what folks do poorly. Not to worry, I'm in the same boat as Kubrick or anyone else, and nobody's better at criticizing myself than I.
Except perhaps the wife.
You may find offense, but I've disliked films by John Ford, Alfred Hitchcock, Steven Spielberg, Frederico Fellini, John Boorman, Orson Welles, Akiro Kurosawa...
...but never, under any circumstances, disliked a film by Luis Bunuel.
Peg; I'll flag your post for Mel. Far as I'm concerned, an agreement comes from this side, but Mel will have her say.
Well, second cup of joe, then off to work I go.
Heigh-ho is for horny dwarves.
Scott
Stephen King: A common thread running through King's work is that evil can manifest itself in the most normal, unassuming people. (See Nazi Germany) One of the things I liked about Storm of the Century is that in the end, EVERYBODY had something dark and scary lurking inside, that everyone had the capacity to do something rotten to others, sometimes just for the hell of it. Everyone was culpable in the end of the story, all the townspeople were gambling that it would be someone else's child that would be taken away by Linoge. No one got out unstained, except for the main character, and his main difference was his capacity for understanding and accepting that everyone had weaknesses. Even Linoge had the same foibles as the Mortals, even down to his blindness to his own flaws.
Cookie: Not having been pregnant (no surprise there) or gotten anyone in that condition, I don't know how to advise you. Except perhaps what Harlan wrote about my bout with depression, ie, "Staying afloat in a sea of monkey vomit". The best thing she can do is talk to understanding folks like you. God, it can help.
On to lighter stuff.
Chris: Ed Wood is a masterpiece. I own the video. Martin Landau's performance earned that oscar. It was not just a Rich Little impression, but a portrayal of a scared, bitter, desperate and lonely old man. His rendition of the "Home? I have no home!" speech was masterful.
Lynn: I saw Nightmare Before Christmas at the El Capitan theater across Hollywood Blvd. from the Chinese Theater. It was a special showing that included an exibition of the animation models used in the movie. Very interesting stuff, and the models were works of art in themselves. Having a friend in LA sure comes in handy.
Jay Smith: The African scams predate the growth if the internet, I believe. I get all kinds of come-ons from people who have ways for me to become rich in 15 minutes, and ways to increase my bust and penis size. If I were a transvestite, I'd be all set. Hotmail has a junk mail service that shunts most of this crap into a folder that I can flush out from time to time. You might want to see what your provider has to deal with these vultures. I think they are getting tired of this shit, too.
Jon Stover: Speaking of action figures, I have a Nosferatu that is a striking likeness of Max Schreck, and a Phantom of the Opera that is the spitting image of Lon Cheyney. Very nicely done. The same outfit has also come out with a Bela Lugosi Dracula that is also superb. The figures include nice stuff such as Rats and the soft cloth hat to go with Nosferatu, and the mask, homburg hat, violin & bow for the Phantom. Great for giving yourself nightmares.
Superman: I read something about Siegel & Schuster recently about how they kept their creative juices flowing through all the rejections they got. They self-published stories and comic strips, including a story titled REIGN OF THE SUPERMAN, which pitted the story's heros against a shaven-headed villain named Superman. The character started out as a bad guy until they turned him into a hero for the new medium of comic books. I think we can tell where they got Lex Luthor, as well.
Speaking of Supes, ever wonder how he got that athletic body? After all, he's so strong he doesn't have to exert himself. Why isn't he a big lump of flab?
Little Washu: Welcome to the library. You will find it a treasure trove. I think you're going to enjoy this. It is a self-made age of discovery. I think ol' Unca Harlan will be proud of you. Bravo.
Chuck
Washu. Pssst. Little Washu...ova hea. Yeah, it's me. Come ova n' this conah' whe' nobudy kin hea' us...I wanna tell ya somethin'...
Take it from me: don't bathe Berman in sycophantic apologies for arrogance; that soi-disant pedant needs an occasional bop upside the head. FERGIT it. Straighten the spine, clench your fists, gird your loins for the fray.
...and tell no one here we had this little tete-a-tete.
Cindy~ Don't forget Green Mile, Eyes of the Dragon and the Gunslinger books. There is something in Stephen King that reaches beyond the horror genre into the same realms as the elusive great American novel. Searching. The descriptive passages in 'Salem's Lot are miniature masterpieces, capturing life in small town New England with an uncanny eye.
I also have a tattered cherished copy of his "On Writing" that I highly recommend, even if you're not a writer. I pray he doesn't retire but finds within the strength to write that one book that will forever seal his place in American literature.
::too tired, waxing poetic, must sleep::
L.
Hey Jay,
I got a couple of these and wrote them back. I said, " It would be a great honor for me to help you. I could not accept money for this service, indeed it would be wrong to do so-- in this your hour of need. Say no more, how can I assist you?"
I never heard back-- I read someplace that in Africa it's bad mojo to mess with somebody who's crazy.. .oh wait I think that might have been an American thing-- with the Indians.
Cindy
OH and for my money NONE of the screenplays outdid the books by Stephen King-- with the exception of MISERY. That was one of two books that I wasn't crazy about-- the other being Gerald's Game. I thought the movie of the shining was creepy in spots but I yearned for the the lay of the land in the book. As a rule adaptations that take liberties PISS ME OFF. The Green Mile was a DELIGHT the cast was golden. The Dead Zone is one of the most outstanding adaptations. I enjoyed Needful Things and parts of The Stand but there again-- the films were just not the same.I love his long novels-- didn't he say someplace that a short story was like a kiss and a long novel more of an affair? I might have missed that quote by a mile.. if anybody knows what Im talking about and can fix it please do so. The long ones.. and the standard length novels like Rose Madder, Firestarter,Carrie, Christine, 'Salem's Lot-- I could go on and on. His books draw me to my bed at night. The luxury of a cotton flannel gown 5 sizes too large, clean white cotton sheets, fluffy pillows and a HUGE Stephen King novel-- THAT is bliss for me.
It's not about the horror it's about the people. His people are so real they live and breathe. I mourn them when he bumps them off.. OH the DARK HALF that was great. Pet Semetary was almost too hard to deal with but there again the people were so human I couldn't turn away. I identify with his people, especially those with flaws. THINNER! I loved Thinner too.
Cindy
Melissa,
Something you wrote didn't strike me quite right in regards to the young lady in Cookie's class. Apologies in advance if I am misinterpreting your intent.
You said she is/was "just a victim of circumstance, and nothing more." I, too, hope the young lady in question is doing well, and I feel for her in the struggles and decisions she will have to face. However, I don't agree that she is a victim of anything, other than her own judgement and actions (assuming she had consentual sex).
If she chose to have sex, she chose to take the risk of becoming pregnant. She is not a victim unless she was incapable of making the choice in the first place. That may come across harsh, but it's true. I prefer to think she is an intelligent person capable of making those choices and taking responsibility for the consequences (which it sounds like she's doing.)
Also, in case people are looking at the Want Ads page and wondering what the hell Jay and Scott are talking about, I excised the chain letters and tourphone advertisements as well as some other really whacked stuff. In the interest of providing you with context, I copied them into:
http://harlanellison.com/heboard/brdwtf.htm
In between some Webderland work today I finished editing on a new rant for the website,
Leaving Okay.
If I don't make it linkable here you can get to it by clicking the "Rants" link on the menu at the top of the board. As always, comments, corrections or editing suggestions, and criticism are welcome, either here or in e-mail.
Cookie:
Good god, I really do feel for the poor thing. If you don't mind an intrusion, how far along is she?
No, I don't think badly of her; first, it takes two for this to happen; second, I know how desires can be; third, you can take all the precautions in the world, and pregnancies will occur. She's just a victim of circumstance, and nothing more.
Does the boyfriend or husband know yet, and if so, how has he responded?
What about her family? What do they know?
How is she bearing up? This is something that's probably scaring her half to death. I know when I was pregnant with my first, even having a good husband and a stable marriage, I was still scared. I can't imagine how hard it is for her.
I guess I don't really have any advice that would do any real good, with so little information. She does have choices in what to do, but I'm afraid those choices will be hers to take care of when the time comes.
But she's got one great thing on her side right now, and that's you. You obviously care about what happens to your students, and you seem like a gal who's been there and back. The fact that you're willing to ask for whatever thoughts we have in order to help her shows this to me. I'm just sorry that, under the circumstances, I can give really no great advice that will help matters.
I hope she's okay, and if anything comes to mind, I'll happily pass it along.
Love to all, Melissa
This is a first for me: one of my freshman vocalists just told me she's pregnant. She was apologetic for missing a few rehearsals.
Christ.
I can't judge her because "there but for the grace or quirk of the Universe go I." And I know just how yucky and complicated unplanned pregnancy can be. I've been there. "Call me irresponsible...".
This is what I told her in a nutshell: Yep. You got trouble. I understand. If you wanna sing in the group, go for it. If you don't; I understand. Either way, let me know so I know how to proceed.
Anybody have any further advice? Please don't get into "the slut was an idiotic twat" kind of shit. What's done is done and what a nice mess we're in now (Ollie). Having been more than stupid a time or two, I feel some sympathy for the girl.
P.A. BERMAN: Whoa, Berman, chill. What did I say that made you freak out? Why did you assume I was somehow attacking you, your posts, and whoever else was involved in the Kubrick/King thread? I'm sorry if my conclusive tone may have been provoking, I'm sorry if I might have come off as arrogant, but..
...don't lash at me, because I have a nasty tendency of lashing back. Hard.
Little Washu
Little Washu: We don't *want* to leave it at that. We *want* to argue about King and Kubrick and what have you. If you don't, skip our posts.
Chris: I agree that _The Shining_ was scary. The images that Danny saw in the room upstairs were nightmarish. However, there is no suspense. We know that Jack is going to go nuts because Nicholson plays him nuts from the first second. That is diametrically opposed to the message of the story.
Scott: Your assessment of why Kubrick's movie eviscerated King's novel was exactly what I wished I'd said. You da man.
Faisal: I "pick on" _The Shining_ because it is, IMO, a good novel, and Kubrick is a great director. Between the two of them, they could have made a great film. It's the disappointment that makes the failure of the movie so egregious.
Bermanator
Faisal:
I believe Dennis gets it from the physical consummation of the romance between the characters played by Walken and Brooke Adams, but Dennis neglects to recall that the child of Adam's character's (Johnny Smith's lost love, in this case) love interest is already born, and with he when she arrives at the home of Johnny Smith. The child is hers by marriage.
Scott
Dennis,
I don't know where you got that interpretation of the ending of the Dead Zone. The child could not possibly have been Christopher Walkens. I agree Cronenberg did a very good job but he had the benefit of an excellent adaptation by Jeffrey Boam, who sadly passed away a few years ago.
I have to defend Kubrick's adaptation of 'The Shining', it is an excellent film that jettisoned many of the cheesy elements of King's novel. The problem I feel is that new viewers approach it expecting a slasher horror movie, just by the presence of Stephen King's name. About as accurate an expectation as going to the cinema to watch Last Year in Marienbad because its apparently about infidelity. SK doesn't pile on the shocks but builds it up slowly and we gradually see a man who has pretensions towards writing but is suffering from alcoholism and this plays much better than if it followed the novel... which King tried to do and look what happened there.
I like King as a writer though I prefer his short stories to his novels. But there have been so many bad films made from his work, why take particular offence with The Shining? Not that I am suggesting a re-make of Children of the Corn...
FAQ
Ah, good, you all ignored my last post.
Off subject for a moment but relevant nonetheless...
I don't use my university's library often. That is, until today. Yes, I usually use the internet, what can I say? My experiences with the piss-poor library I had all through my years in high school put me off completely, I suppose. But, after re-reading one of Harlan's many posts of the value of GENUINE, HARD BOOKS IN YOUR HANDS as opposed to having a computer monitor suck your eyeballs out of their sockets, I decided to take him up on his challenge and visited my library.
Anyone with sensitive hearing leave the forum now.
MY GOD!!!! WHAT THE FUCK HAVE I BEEN MISSING?!?
I mean, I hate, hate, HATE being the next poor dope who proves that Harlan Ellison was 'right all along', but the unbelievable, utterly ridiculous extent that you can find the most SPECIFIC information if you know where to look...for example, I found ten books on hair follices. HAIR FOLLICLES!!!! DEAR ALMIGHTY GOD!!!!
As of now I have gathered five books on nineteenth-century Africa and the various tribes and peoples of the same continent as research for a particular story I'm developing. And, as Harlan roared at me across cyberspace, I will
LOOK. IT. UP.
You and I had our tiffs, Harl...but upon all that's cherished and good, thank you.
Little Washu (aka Benjamin A. A. Winfield)
P.S. Kubrick and King. King and Kubrick. Two men, two minds, two works of art. Let's leave it at that.
Rick:
Geez, Rick; PC!!!
That should read: "salad-tossing intellectually challenged person"
We wouldn't want to annoy the United World Christian Friends, now wouldn't we?
I'm inclusive, I'm Scott
Jay:
Don't you see? They've found you, Jay; Robertson, Falwell, Limbaugh, all of them, Jay.
All it will cost you is your soul....
BWAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I've taken to wearing garlic to warn them off, says a safely atheist Scott.
Rob:
"He was BRILLIANT and funny as hell in "The Shining", and "Batman"."
Well, in your perspective (and this view might require a trip to the Lens Crafters for art: better aesthetics in an hour or your money cheerfully refunded), Mr Nicholson may have been brilliant, but in light of the other roles mentioned (I neglected "Chinatown"; that bad is mine) the Torrance and Joker characters come off as good ole Jack doing these ones for the paycheck.
The problem in both cases isn't talent. Jack's got that to spare; the problem is the roles. Both come off to me as weak, one dimensional characters; we don't see any other facets of personality other than the descent into madness, and the violence that results.
Jack Torrance is a case in point. At least within the novel, I had a sense that Torrance was at least giving some form of resistance to the Overlook's increasing pull upon his psyche, as he tries to maintain his control. Watching the struggle Torrance would fight for his self would've played out far more effectively even if Kubrick had utlimately decided that Torrance should lose that war against the evil manifest in the hotel.
For Nicholson, it was no win. Kubrick had gutted the book with impunity, not listening to what King had to say about personal guilt, responsibility, and isolation. If Kubrick had enough sense to realize that the truest terror comes from the audience seeing their own fears on the screen (somebody should've shown Kubrick a few Val Lewton films), rather than a man being taken over by special effect-created supernatural forces, the movie would've been far better and Nicholson would've had something of real value to work with.
Now, the Joker? Same problem. The Joker was always created to be the backdrop for Batman, and within the mass-market mentality of the movie business, he had to remain one-dimensional. Please folks, the producers have to think in scope much wider than satisfying the purists and fans of the Dark Knight, so the film has to be in the middle of the road. Jack did this one for the big paycheck; all the script called for was his laughing, sadism, and acts of violence. For what it was worth, he was the best thing in a middling film. Micheal Keaton walking throughout with a dour expression on his face and emoting like he was placed on massive doses of Seroquel was hardly a counterpoint. This one was made for the money, and make money it did.
Now, an effctive performance of a King character on the big screen?
How about Christopher Walken, in David Cronenberg's "The Dead Zone"?
Going to see about ordering the dvd set of "The Prisoner" is Number 3, aka Scott
What the hell is this on the Want Ads Page? It's a frigging pyramid novel!
"God's Money 4 U
United States - Wednesday, February 13 2002 2:22:14
!!! Good News !!!
“God Bless America”
United World Christian Friends"
Rick,
Been watching "Jay and Silent Bob" today, you salad-tossing webmaster?
Anyway, thanks for the preview button. How about a spellchecker for the incompetent (read: me)?
Regards,
Joseph
P.S. Just kidding about the spellchecker.
Since you guys are getting more and more garrulous here, I've added a "Preview" button to the comments form that will allow you to check out your message before you post.
This will allow you to check format and spelling, and possibly also consider whether you really wanted to call that guy a "salad-tossing retard."
Enjoy!
Anyone who doesn't think Kubrick's The Shining is scary is, quite simply, either stark raving mad or an alien of some kind. Definitely not a person who processes data or emotion in the same way as I or anyone else I know does.
The book is OK but uninspired and uninvolving. Neat idea, mediocre execution, mediocre characterization.
I'm going to chime in for a Stephen King movie I haven't seen in anyone else's lists yet. For best adaptation I point to "The Dead Zone".
I think David Cronenberg did an amazing job capturing the feel of the book. The only negative in the whole thing for me was his change of the ending to have the child Martin Sheen's character hides behind be the son of Johnny Smith's ex-girlfriend. Seems to be pouring it on a little too thick there.
Dennis
Rob~ WTF?! After much pouring over the archives, I can only assume that my address to you (w/o my usual "re:", something I won't omit in the future) was in regards to your well wishes to my mother, when in fact the "dead dog" remark was in regards to the kiddie porn thread which was getting really tiresome. I'm sorry I didn't thank you personally for your well wishes, which I will do now. Next time I tell you you've got a deceased canine on your hands, I will be more specific.
::sigh::
L.
What is this crap about THE SHINING being the best film adaptation of a Stephen King novel? THE SHINING is a technical masterpiece and provides a few good chills but it isn't scary. Why is it not scary? Because you don't give a flying monkey's cock about whether anybody in the movie lives and dies, except Halloran, because nobody is truly characterized. Except Halloran. Danny is a zombie from beginning to end; Shelly Duvall is open victim throughout and even when she DOES fight back, she's less than convincing; and Jack is...well, Jack.
Everyone keeps coming up with differences between King and Kubrik's visions. I think it comes down to a phone call King recalled in a few interviews in the eighties. Alledgy, Kubrik called King late one night, woke him up and asked, "Do you believe in god?"
"Yeah," King replied. "I guess."
"Oh," Kubrik replied. "I don't." And he hung up.
Now, I'm not saying it's because one believed and one didn't. Anyone who visits this site knows that an atheist is willing to believe anything while they are writing. The characters should lead the way. I'm an atheist but I can believe for the sake of a story I'm writing. You have to. Apparently, Kubrik wasn't. And when he tried to inject supernatural elements, they didn't feel right.
King's book and his miniseries had feeling. Kubrik's vision had style. I'm sorry, but give me feeling over style any time, folks.
Oh, yeah. I almost forgot. I thought the books hedge animals were terrifying. I mean, hedges moving isn't scary, but the way they seemed to just creep when you weren't looking. Like when the old lady in the tub slowly wrapped her hands around Danny's neck...
Brrrrr. Okay. I'm back to lurking.
Lynn,
Last time I heard from YOU you were telling me to fuck off (to put it in my OWN words) per my wishing your mother well.
At any rate, you were the only one to bring up 'Oscar' - I sure didn't. I was just helping Scott find the words he meant to use in his last post poitinent to this thread.
Infoman~ Thank you very much for the Salon interview with Dan Simmons. Probably had the most impact on me of anything I've read in months.
Rob~ Get serious. Jack was *good* in Batman (don't tell me I don't appreciate the film - I saw it *8* times in the theatre), but he wasn't *fantastic*. He was camp and ghoulish humor and definitely better than any other actor in the picture (except the guy that played Alfred). But not even in my twisted imagination was that an Oscar quality performance.
L.
A couple thoughts:
Jack: Jack Nicholson was GREAT in "Five Easy Pieces" and "One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest" and was fucking incredible in "The Last Detail".
He was BRILLIANT and funny as hell in "The Shining", and "Batman".
Well, Jon (or anyone else), if you happen to want to check out any of the ABC books and would rather have the real books in their original format instead of those nasty ol' TPBs, I am in the process of selling off a large chunk of my way too large collection and I have most of the early runs of the ABC books and I give real nice deals. Honest, I do.
In fact, if any other comic book fans have runs (esp. of Marvel titles) they want to fill out, I am selling lots of stuff and selling it at half or less of Guide price.
I won't use the list to "advertise" my sale but if anyone is interested, we could help each other out. I can't take everything with me when I move but I don't want to sell it to some heartless "pay by the pound" dealer either. And certain books aren't worth the risk of putting on eBay.
My e-mail address is listed above if anyone is interested.
OK, so the movie is from Danny's POV, and Danny is incapable of seeing his father as anything but a monster? Nah, I don't buy it. I think the novel reflects both Danny and Jack's POV, and for the sake of length, I can see cutting it to the kid's POV. I just don't think freezing to death made any sense at all. I think Kubrick cut corners on the story, bigtime. All style, no substance.
Rob: Did you read the novel _The Shining_? If not, perhaps not a good idea to comment on whether or not the movie is better?
Also, if we're criticizing the boiler motif in _The Shining_ as corny, and we really wanted to see worms come out of Jack's head, AND we have no perspective on the overwhelming corny-ness of _Forbidden Planet_, then we MUST question our ability to discern the presence of corn, mustn't we now?
You still haven't read _Heart of Darkness_, have you?
Bermanator
And for all you lunatics, this evening's full moon will be at perigee, the closest point to earth on its orbit. This means the moon will actually appear 9% larger than usual and can be as much as 20% brighter than usual.
Roadtrip to Mojave anyone?
L.
Jon,
Top Ten is by far the best of the ABC books. To me, Tom Strong is second, though it can have it's weak moments. What used to be a strong second to me was Promethea....this book was beautifully unique with fabulous art....now it's starting to grate on my nerves....with fabulous art. I wouldn't call these fun....but if you are in an overintellectualizing mood, go for it.
Tomorrow Stories are often weak.
As for miniseries, The League Of Extraordinary Gentlemen is super.....I haven't read my issues of Greyshirt: Indigo Sunset yet, but that won't be out in TP yet anyway.
-TODD
A couple thoughts:
Jack: Jack Nicholson was GREAT in "Five Easy Pieces" and "One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest" and was fucking incredible in "The Last Detail".
He was lousy in "The Shining", and "Batman".
The best performance of the Jack Torrance character is one Homer Simpson, in "The Shinning". (Got to remember that: don't want to be sued)
Scott
King even wished that they would have used the killer hedge animal theme. A very idiotic idea in an otherwise wonderful novel.
Jack is the magician of American cinema; how could anyone not love his performance in Batman? Never thought Cesar Romero could be replaced, but boy was I wrong. Jack's laugh wasn't as good, but the Jokers more evil side came out great in the movie.
Actually I have occasional correspondence with Chomsky. But I won't mention his name. Lol.
Hey all you Zimheads out there.
HOT TOPIC has Zim wear. And Zim Patches. And Gir patches. And Gir wear. And key chains and shoelaces and all sorts of useless crap.
They even have a plush Zim that is going on top of my monitor right next to my Cthulhu plushie.
Heh. Heh. Heh.
L.
Jon:
There's a few you might like:
A Love Supreme
John Coltrane and Johnny Hartman (get the remaster, it's incredible!)
Giant Steps
The Complete Columbia Recordings: 1955 - 1961 (The complete Trane and Miles Davis sessions) (Boxed set)
The Complete Village Vanguard Sessions: 1961 (Boxed set)
Live at Birdland (Remastered)
Hepcat Scott
Chris,
I'm inclined to agree - if I'm interpreting you accurately - that Kubrick basically shows everything from Danny's pov; what the people around him represent, his fears and his divinations. Even Halloran is reduced to a 'tool', a convenience to provide the Sno-Cat at the precise time needed. I didn't read the book but I saw King's tv-movie version with literally EVERYTHING explained for the boneheads out there in need of it; thought it was pretty dumb, with very little scary about it. If the book resembles it there were many good reasons for Kubrick's reinterpretation.
As for the boilier symbolism, there may have been several reasons for Kubrick dropping it; perhaps he just thought it was too corny. I still think its meaning as King intended somewhat conflicts with Kubrick's dispassionate objectives.
I'm STILL glad he replaced the "hedge animals" with the maze. I never thought there was anything "chilling" about the concept.
And one idea I sometimes wish Kubrick HAD kept intact for the very end was the fancy of showing Jack's frozen head crack open revealing a mass of worms his brain had degenerated into. That was a prospect brainstormed in early development.
A truly random postscript:
1) Any suggestions on what John Coltrane albums or collections are essential, or at least good places to start building?
2) Has anyone read enough of Alan Moore's ABC work to suggest a ranking of which tpbs to buy in what order? *Top Ten* seems to be the consensus pick wherever I've read up on the stuff, with *Tom Strong* tending to get ranked last.
Jon
Daredevil:
Jay -- it may be the same figure; the modelling, especially of the face, is clearly Quesada's DD, but it's not called "the Quesada Daredevil" (which, come to think of it, sounds like either a drink or a Hispanic version of Sasquatch or the Mothman).
Jon
Berman,
Until you straighten yourself out on 'Forbidden Planet' your counter is but a belch from the boiler.
...this seemed like the right kind of day to fling shit at SOMEONE.
DAMMIT, I did it again. Three times now. Grr. This is the only bulletin board I have ever seen that swallows up anything you put in between marks but I gotta remember that it does that.
What I was responding to was this:
**Lurk: The film of _The Shining_ "transcends the novel's modest themes"? By transforming Jack from a complex, ambivalent, threee dimensional character into a simple, plain old monster? Not sure how that could possibly be so.**
>
Basically because it's a mistake to focus on Jack. He's not that interesting a character.
I think that's the part King can't or won't get past in his criticism of the film. To him, The Shining is all about Jack. To Kubrick, Jack is of almost no interest.
I agree with Kubrick and I think he made the correct and crucial decision to switch the focus from Jack to more of a focus on Danny and the Overlook.
Jack just doesn't cut it as a protagonist. He's not all that complex or three-dimensional anyway. He's OK. He's not a terrible character by any means - that's not what I'm saying. But he's not NEARLY as interesting as either Danny or the Overlook. Or even Halloran. Kubrick saw that and made the changes. King doesn't agree.
Lurk: The film of _The Shining_ "transcends the novel's modest themes"? By transforming Jack from a complex, ambivalent, threee dimensional character into a simple, plain old monster? Not sure how that could possibly be so.
Also, _Shawshank_ was a novella, not a short story. Just had to nitpick that.
Bermanator
Scariest film ever:
Alien
Bermanator
Rob: Overall, I enjoyed Kubrick's _The Shining_, because it stylishly invokes the horror of the Overlook, and I do generally like Jack. However, for several reasons I disagree with your analysis.
First, I realize the root cause for Jack's deterioration is not his alcoholism. It wasn't the point in the novel either. The Overlook merely uses that problem as a means to weaken Jack. The heart of Jack's problem is the horrifying abuse he suffered at the hands of his father; this created a rage inside of him that periodically flared up and screwed up his life. Hence, the boiler image: if Jack did not "tamp down the boiler" or keep a tight rein on his rage, he would "blow up." Thus, the boiler is an extremely clever metaphor and the explosion is the best possible ending of the story. Why change what was already great?
I think Kubrick took the easy way out, narratively speaking, by removing the boiler motif. Yes, it might have been challenging to allude to Jack's father, and to show him running down to the boiler obsessively, but hey. This is Kubrick we're talking about.
Yes, Jack was only one of a series of men corrupted by the hotel, all of whom were probably basically decent men with serious weaknesses, just like Jack. When Jack moved to the Overlook, he was in recovery. Jack is flawed, but I don't believe that psychosis was his true nature, nor is there much evidence to support that thesis. Not sure why Kubrick would want to decrease sympathy for Jack; can you back up this assertion? When the audience sympathizes with the main character, it is far more horrified when that character is destroyed. If you know he's nuts from the beginning, where's the suspense? Where's the creeping paranoia and fear? This is a basic element of storytelling that I can't imagine eluded Kubrick, but even the greatest make mistakes.
BTW, the classic moment to which you refer, the "All work and no play..." bit, happens in the hotel after Jack's unraveling had begun. It doesn't really reinforce your point about him being inherently nuts.
Also, how incredibly annoying was it that Dick Halloran drags his ass all the way to the hotel only to be senselessly chopped in half? What a waste, esp. when there is a very cool moment at the end of the book when Halloran is tempted to go evil but resists.
_Stand By Me_ and _Shawshank Redemption_ are better adaptations of King's novels, in my opinion.
Bermanator
Jay,
Personally, I loved Will Ferrel's multiple takes on departments no longer having jets. Damn, that man can be funny with the right material....
Oh, and speaking of hilariously silly movies, I see that UHF was announced today to be finally re-released on DVD and VHS in June. Already have my pre-order in.
Also, Jay, thanks for the hint on comiccompany.com. Nice selection over there. I'm, holding off on more stuff right now, as I just picked up the very nice "Earth X" Wolverine mini-bust. Nice bit of work , that, from the Alex Ross design. Looks great on top of my entertainment center.
Regards,
Joseph
>Jack's a monster and Danny escapes only through his own ingenuity and bravery<
Which is probably the "real reason" King didn't like the film. He gave a lot of other ones, at the time...but there's always a "real reason."
Kind of like Last Temptation of Christ. The protests against that movie (and Blockbuster's refusal to carry it for years) were supposedly because of sex scenes between Christ and Mary. But those were pretty pedestrian (nothing like Hershey's work in Boxcar Bertha, which featured similar scrumping in sheds on hay) The "real reason" methinks, is the re-appraisal of Judas's role...in this movie, he and Christ work together to turn Christ over, to ensure that the message gets out...I don't think your average thumper likes to feel he's been played like the mark that he is...
King Lurk
Yes, Joseph... all hail the 2-DVD J&SB Set for its 5 hours of time-wasting, profanity-laden and hilarious extras. My pick for DVD of the Week. Picking up SHAZAM! and Jakita Wagner today from my comic store. BTW, I found great figure deals at www.comiccompany.com Service was awesome, too. It's out of Decatur, GA.
King sympathized with Jack. Kubrick didn't. I think that's the biggest difference between the book and the movie.
The whole boiler room jazz is a device intended to give Jack his final moment of redemption. Like alcoholics, Jack experiences a moment of clarity at the end and gets to save Danny.
Kubrick snipped that whole bit right out of the story. Jack's a monster and Danny escapes only through his own ingenuity and bravery.
I liked Kubrick's choices much better.
I hear people always refer to the Shining as "uneven" or "flawed" and I guess it's not perfect but... it's damn good. It's the scariest film I have ever seen and I can't think of a candidate to even qualify as a reasonable second place.
It really might be the _only_ scary movie ever made.
I should only scary horror movie ever made, there are some documentaries that wind up being pretty horrifying. _Crumb_ still gives me the creeps. What a family!
Jay,
You're quite welcome for the recommendations, and here's to new comic day! To wit, the new Cage series from Brian Azzarello (part of the Marvel Max line) is fantastic. Cage is one bad mother....
Oh, and any Kevin Smith fans, set your VCRs for tonight's Tonight Show. There's a new short film with Dante and Randall stuck in a traffic jam. That and the outtake goodies on "Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back" should keep me busy for awhile.
Regards,
Joseph
I agree about Rob's assessment on The Shining. Stephen King's own protests to the contrary, this was the best film of a King book ever made, largely because it transcended the novel's own modest themes into something a larger.
I should qualify that: I haven't seen Green Mile and Shawshank is based on a short story.
But compared to other King-book movies, like Salem's Lot, Christine, Stand By Me, Pet Sematary, Carrie...some of these were quite good, but Kubrick's work is clearly in another league.
Coppolla's movie of the Godfather exceeds the book as well. Although I think there the improvement is considerably greater...The Shining is a better novel than the Godfather.
King lurk
Jon -
I think I have that, from the Spiderman Classics line but it contained a comic from back in the late 80s, a Christmas story of some sort, with the same stained glass background you described and a neck that made DD look like he's got a goiter. I bought it. No note of the Great Quesada anywhere. Oh well.
Joseph -
I've heard great things about Gold Apple in LA in Wizard for a place to meet comic-collecting geek celebrities. Ebay is good, too. Thanks. I'm looking for a few of the first Wave ones Bats, Supes, etc.
Ahh, basking in Comicgeekdom I am...my new Wizard and Previews.
FF Movie:
Frank -- Stuck in development hell at last report. Given that Chris Columbus was attached to it and that he's now cranking out the Harry Potter movies, I wouldn't hold my breath, but these things change pretty quickly.
Jon
The first ‘Shining’ film was Kubrick’s ‘The Shining’ not King’s. Inevitably a different voice and vision supplanted key aspects of the novel. The director’s misanthropic world view led to a black comedy as much as a horror film; he may have removed the boiler room metaphor to diminish sympathy for Jack and emphasize the psychosis he clearly had long before the day he brought his family to the Overlook (hence, the classic moment Wendy flips through the "All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy" manuscript). This aspect, Kubrick may have felt, conflicted with the point of the boiler room symbolism: alcoholism was NOT his central problem here. It was no longer applicable because Jack was made less a sympathetic character. Here the thesis is evil - the acts Jack was playing out in his mind - is perpetual (as inferred by the 1921 photo flashed at us at the end of the movie) because it lies in the choices human beings make. An interesting take on the movie I remember reading once by a critic said this was also the greatest horror film about writer’s block ever made: Jack Torrance (here) was about the actions and behavior of a tormented writer.
Except for the ending - which does annoy me because of such an ingenious, meticulous set-up with Halloran - I like just about the entire film very much because it made me laugh (for ex., the "heartwarming" father-to-son talk Jack has with his kid) and it has one of the bitchin'est music tracks of all time (in part by Wendy Carlos).
Re: Tim Burton’s first Batman film.
Overall, I thought it was great. And I love Nicholson, but the reasons the film worked so well are endless. There was a time I thought anyone who didn’t like it had something seriously wrong with them genetically. And I may not be wrong about that.
Customer Service Jay:
The Quesada-based Daredevil is in the Series II line of Spider-man Classics (yeah, I know -- enh?) from Grand Toys. He's 15 cm tall, has a stained glass window as a backdrop and one of the Quesada pin-ups/covers for a poster behind him. $10 including tax when I bought him at Zeller's; I assume there must be a lot of them out there.
The movie Spider-man figures are out as well (Battle Ravaged Spider-man, Spider-man, Norman Osborn, and Green Goblin). No wet tshirt Mary Jane yet, at least not here in Sensible City.
Jon
Various Items of Sundry Interest.
Item #1: Spike Milligan, a giant of British comedy, a founder of the enormously influential Goons, author of several wonderful books, has passed away.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/entertainment/tv_and_radio/newsid_1843000/1843963.stm
Item #2: A new show titled _TruthQuest: California_ is attempting to adopt the style and tone of such shows as _The Real World_ from a fundamentalist Christian perspective. The plot of the show will center around a Winnebago of photogenically-enhanced Christian teens as they travel around the Seismic State, witnessing to the heathen. One reference to 'extreme sport religion, rock climbing and rappelling down steep cliffs with a Christian mountain climbing team that preaches in the park" strikes me as being more than a little Reifenstahlish, but goofiness and cheap laughs seem to be in the cards; as one of the producers says, "It won't be like The Real World in terms of sex, drugs and rock 'n' roll, or have all the back-stabbing of Big Brother or Survivor. But you put teens somewhere together without their parents and regardless of premise, you've got sexual tension."
I'd watch this show if _only_ for to savor the spectacle of young, healthy Xtian ladies endagering their eternal souls by surrendering their chastity to bewildered-but-horny Xtian boys not old enough to understand the Love that they pretend to feel for each other. Or, failing that, we can watch'em wiggle their tits.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,46524,00.html
Item #3: I just heard about a movie with very little publicity, and which seems destined for very limited release, but given the subject and the people who made it, I figure y'all might be interested. It's titled _Teddy Bears Picnic_, it's set in the yearly Bohemian Grove-like get-together of the Wealthy and Powerful Who Own the Country, and it's written and directed by Harry Shearer.
http://www.visionboxpictures.com/teddybearspicnic/
Good grief, I just had a brainstorm!
Harlan's going to mutilate me for this, but who would be WONDERFUL ACTORS in the roles of the five victims of AM in a film adaptation of I HAVE NO MOUTH, AND I MUST SCREAM?
NOBODY TAKE THIS POST SERIOUSLY, PLEEEEEEEEEEZZZZ!!!!
Here are my personal favourites:
TED: Daniel Day-Lewis
NIMDOK: Tom Baker
GORRISTER: Jeff Goldblum
ELLEN: Halle Berry
BENNY: Larry Drake
After this, let's start to cast THE VOICE IN THE GARDEN! I know who I want for Bernie! Ooooooooh, I'm gonna be lynched for this! Hee hoo ha ha ha hee hoo ha!!!!!!
Little Washu, whose laboratory needs more oxygen in it.
While I'm yakking so much today: DVD Pick Of The Week!
I just picked up The Larry Sanders Show Season One. This was one of the funniest teevee shows ever, and I'm glad that HBO has decided to put their best series up on DVD......and I hope they continue to support these season collections. Season One and Two of The Sopranos, Season One of Oz coming soon, I don't give a rat's ass about Sex In The City but many others do.
Here's to waiting with anticipation for Season One of Six Feet Under, their best series next to Sopranos.
-TODD
Jay,
A few options for the DC Direct figures (I presume you mean the ones from the last decade or so?)
1) eBay. Never a bad choice, and comics stuff is very popular on it.
2) A comics store, especially one that has a good collection of toys & statues. My two suggestions to call are Chicago Comics, 773.528.1983 (ask for Eric or Seth, tell 'em I sent you), or Jay & Silent Bob's Secret Stash, 732-758-0020 (yes, it's the Kevin Smith comic store - great selection).
Additionally, I can't recommend them as I've never been there, but I've heard many good things about Golden Apple in LA, 888.235.2400.
Regards,
Joseph
Y'know, everytime I log on and off of this page, I always catch out of the corner of my eye that smilin' picture of Harlan himself....to me, I always see him holding up a globe.....until I remember (or look closer) that it's one of his Edgeworks books. I kinda like the globe picture of my mind better: Harlan Ellison holding the world in his hands.
-TODD
DK2: On the plus side, Miller is doing a great job at showing the short-attention-span sound-byte media pop culture of his dystopian world. Really well done. On the downside, through 2 issues of a 3 issue series, the story is still incoherent and uninvolving. In this Dark Knight, Batman is, quite simply, a blood-thirsty asshole and I hope Superman beats him into a bloody pulp.
THE SHINING: I always thought the ending of the book was terrible, as if King felt he need the cliched "big explosion" to get people's attention. The movie's ending is vastly superior. The book does a much better job with the character of Jack Torrance than the movie but the movie does a much better job with the "character" of The Overlook. I strongly prefer the film to the book (ain't even close) which I guess means I'm not allowed to join King's fan club. I think The Shining is one of King's more pedestrian efforts.
Speaking of Coppola: I sure wish I could find a copy of ONE FROM THE HEART on dvd (doesn't exist), or even just see the damn thing on cable teevee some day. I would love to be able to assess that film now that it's been long killed by the critics. I saw it at the movies the one week it opened, and I don't remember a damn thing about it except some real neon colorful shots and something about a dance on a not so high wire.
Why can't this movie be released for purchase? HEAVEN'S GATE is out there, fer cripes sake, all 9 or 10 or god knows how many hours of that self-indulgent piece of shit.....why can't we get ONE FROM THE HEART out there? It's probably Coppola's last film all his own....as opposed to the director for hire crud he's been forced to do.
-TODD
Washu Pequeño: The greater-than and less-than symbols are used to demarcate HTML code. The PERL app that Rick is using to create this webpage (the app basically takes this comment and pastes it between intro and last comment) doesn't want you to use HTML, so it ignores any text between the greater-than and less-than symbols. I know, I know, it caught me by surprise the first couple of times, too.
L.
King Lurk - I have to agree. I much preferred Romero as The Joker. Paint over the moustache aside, he really did an excellent job combining camp and psychosis. The Bad Guys being old hands really covers what was great about that old show. It certainly didn't have a great crop of stories. Julie Newmar and Yvonne Craig in profoundly stirring outfits were a plus, too.
"The Jack" was wonderful as always, but I recently watched "Hang Em High" and "The Cowboys" again in short order and Ellison's right - Bruce Dern would make a great Joker for film. You can't compete on screen with Jack. Keaton was just out-hammed.
David - Re: Superman and "Man of Steel, Woman of Kleenex" is the definitive guide to Kryptonian plumbing. It was presented in my "Feminism in Science Fiction" class at Penn State. Oh THAT didn't go over too well.
WHAT QUESADA DAREDEVIL FIGURE?!?!? Where can I find this beautiful, magical beast?
AHHHHHHHHHHHHH! My eyes are burning... don't touch it, it's EVIL!
From Dark Horizons: "Variety reports that Coppola's American Zoetrope and Myriad Pictures have struck a five-picture deal which'll include three new projects... The three new projects include the [HERE IT COMES, BRACE YOURSELF] Joel Schumacher directed adaptation of Jack Kerouac's "On the Road" in which Schumacher wants Colin Farrell to portray illustrious drifter Neal Cassady, [DID YOU FEEL THE SOUL TORN FROM YOUR BODY AS I DID?]
GREAT! I can just see the reader's synopsis: When a Soviet space capsule crash lands at Big Sur with radioactive material leaking from its power source, it's up to Neal Cassady, (an ex-Marine, philosopher and roadhouse manager) to avert world war four, rescue the beautiful Soviet cosmonaut and blow up lots of stuff. Also will include extended surfing sequences with Cassady and his beatnik friend "Joel" in wetsuits riding the waves and running up and down the beach in slow motion.
Sorry, Lurkie, that space after your name was supposed to have your quote "Let's not forget the scene where the Joker is dancing to Prince and tossing dollar bills around in the street. Kind of sums up how stupid the whole project was." What the heck happened there?
Konnichi wa, folks!
KING LURK: >
Oh yes, not to mention the moment when the pathetic, weenie humans assaulted the big, nasty monkeys in 'POTA' at the movie's climax and somehow managed to kick the snot out of them despite the fact that an ordinary chimpanzee can tear off your arm and beat you to death with it if he didn't like how you SMELLED...but I'm not picking on Mr. Burton anymore.
Off subject for a moment: I'm a little off-kilter right now, having learned that the Bush Administration intends to give back the rights to torture and assasinate criminals to the CIA. Oh, beautiful. Oh, terrific. That's grand.
First of all...is BIN LADEN STILL EVEN ALIVE FOR CHRIST'S SAKES?!?! I've seen the last video broadcast of Osama, and he looked horrible. If Bin Laden really is gone by now and the government is simply enticing the public on with cries of indignation against a maniac who might be WORM-MEAT, for what purpose? America, don't self-destruct. Don't make more enemies. Being the most powerful country in the world, heaven knows you already have enough of them.
Second of all...is returning the right to hurt and threaten all in the name of 'the country' such a wise idea? America shouldn't be so concerned about coming off as a bunch of wimps and focus on rectifying stuff OTHER than it's important image. It's one thign to be a weakling, but it's another to jump head-first into amorality and behave only according 'to your job.' That's why I'm concerned about this CIA business, A LOT.
Little Washu, made sadly a bit more cynical about the good ol' Red, White and Blue. Dagnabbit.
Since there's so much talk about Superman, I have to tell a story about when I was in college and read a magazine story about the upcoming Superman II feature. It said that Superman would actually end up in bed with Lois. I told my friend Victoria about this and commented: Wouldn't that be kind of dangerous? I mean, what if, in the throes of passion, Superman went nuts and lost control? He could drill you right through the floor. Victoria said, "Yeah, but what a way to go!"
Little Washu:
There are, of course, plenty of photos of me on my Web site: www.david-loftus.com
Leetle Washu, re: Nightmare Before Christmas-- Tim Burton wrote the story, which was adapted to screenplay by Michael McDowell, I think. NBC was brilliant, no question.
King Lurk--your comments re: Nicholson as the Joker are almost exactly the reason why Stephen King so disliked Jack as Jack in Kubrick's_The Shining_. King wanted the movie to show the slow deterioration of a basically normal guy into a violent psychopath; Nicholson always seems wacked, so no process is shown and thus the point of the novel is negated. I've heard he wanted Michael Moriarty for the part. That would have been interesting.
Speaking of _The Shining_: does anyone know why Kubrick chose to eviscerate the book by changing the ending? The boiler was the symbol of Jack's inner alcoholic rage and self-destructiveness; the fact that he forgets to tamp it down and it blows both him and the Overlook into oblivion is the perfect ending. Why change it? Freezing to death misses the point entirely.
Bermanator
Action Figure Man:
Well, I'm up now.
Jay -- I caved in and bought the Quesada-based *Daredevil* action figure yesterday. I'm sure it will have many fine adventures beating up my George Bell, Duke (from Doonesbury), and Don Mattingly action figures until the 12-inch Hulk finally puts it in line.
King Lurk -- *Batman* seemed to mark the last appearance of the two-dimensional "antic Nicholson" who had been plaguing films since around about *The Shining.* I don't know if Nicholson purged this acting nemesis with *Batman* or if the lucre from *Batman* ($60 million?) meant that Nicholson didn't feel compelled to do blockbuster roles again, but whatever the cause, his film work since *Batman* seems to be a return to 60s and 70s form.
John Lithgow in Buckaroo Banzai gets my nomination for 'praised over-the-top performance that I don't get.' Painful, man. And Lithgow's turn in *Cliffhanger* is almost as painful. And John Malcovich in *Con Air*? Ai, shub-niggurath.
Actually, Nicholson's performance in *Batman* looks like a tour de force compared to his supervillains-in-movies running mates. Oh, sorry, Pacino. Pacino in *Dick Tracy* is fine.
Terence Stamp in *Superman II* -- now there's a villain.
Jon
To ALL: Infoman sez, if you need a break from discussing comic books and want to hear what Dan Simmons has to say about "...such topics as the state of both genre and 'serious (literary) fiction, the bout of depression that figured in the writing of his latest novel and what it's like to live between two literary worlds," go check out the interview ("The Outsider") at Salon.com.
Here's a direct address to the piece:
(www.salon.com/books/int/2002/02/27/simmons/index.html)
No mention of Ellison, but plenty of good conversation.
--Informationally, the man.
King Lurk....I said Nicholson is the only thing worth seeing in BATMAN, and your note putting him down for being Nicholson and not the Joker is exactly what I'm getting at. Who gives a shit about the Joker? About Cesar Romero (see my comment on why I don't care about who played Catwoman and Penguin on teevee...and why I don't care about the comics.....I'm expressing my enjoyment of the 2nd Batman movie as a Tim Burton film. To hell with the comic and teevee show and their creators who I am not bringing into the conversation.....I like Jack in BATMAN, I like Danny and Michelle in BATMAN RETURNS, I don't care if they do service to comic books or teevee).
I always enjoy Jack Nicholson. His service to the other media incarnations of Batman is not my concern.
-TODD
>only Nicholson makes BATMAN worth viewing<
It's time to finally, after a solid decade of accolades for this performance, to sound the voice of dissent on this canard.
In no time, ever, could I as a viewer forget that I was watching Jack Nicholson "act" as the Joker. A rather chunky Joker too. Sure, Nicholson as bemused lunatic is always fun to watch, but did it server the comic book? Did it serve the film, other than to make Michael Keaton look pale by comparison?
Let's not forget the scene where the Joker is dancing to Prince and tossing dollar bills around in the street. Kind of sums up how stupid the whole project was.
Cesar Romero was a better Joker. Sure, the 60s show was a lampoon, but Romero inhabited the role, and projected a menace, however comic, that all of Nicholson's leering couldn't come near. And the comparisons grow more odious: Burgess Meredith was light years ahead, decades away from Danny DeVito's godawful take as the Penguin. And as for Jim Carrey's Riddler, don't even GO THERE. The Mask in tights.
While the Adam West show was often silly, the villians were generally cast with old pros who knew how to act and not eat film every time they had a scene. The Batman movies were all about money...how much can we spend on sets, how much can we spend on effects, and how much can we spend on famous actors to play hambone Halloween party with classic characters.
King Curmudgeon.
Jon - "But I'm afraid I've turned into a "wait for the tpb" sort of guy when it comes to comic book buying."
Yep. I'm feeling that way, too, especially since I'm tired of long, drawn out story arcs that go nowhere after 8 months. I don't feel bad if I hear about books like Top 10 or Ultimate Spider-Man that defy my initial thought that they're gimmicks. They'll end up in Trade Paperback format for less than collecting each issue. Now Marvel's going to archive all its books this way. I'm trying to think of books I actually look forward to getting every month. Transmet, Planetary, Authority (if it does come out...only one issue left), Daredevil, etc.
On the whole, JLA and Avengers have been pretty dull. ULTIMATES looks promising. JSA seems more interesting overall.
Tim Burton - Visually very pretty, complex, and interesting. Ed Wood was brilliant. Didn't see Planet of the Apes because I really don't care to see how millions of dollars can be spent remaking a movie I wasn't fond of to begin with. I think I said it before, but I compare it to Stephen King rewriting "Of Mice and Men"... WHY? (Oh, btw...Happy Birthday Mr. Steinbeck.)
Actually, in the case of PotA, I guess it would be, Why would Peter David try to rewrite "Dragonlance"?
Oh, and a side note - Every week, I continue to get these pleas from African nationals, rebels, princes and generals offering me a cut of fortunes if I let them deposit their money in my checking account. I'm curious if anyone knows the souce of this bullshit and if any one has been more successful at blocking their email? Just checking.
My best to all.
Jay
I mean Todd.
Rob: No 24 DVD set - damn - that puts a hurt on my mood.
And regarding Frank - could the Chomsky thing be the next generation of Web Ad - a subtle mix of repetition and plug. Hey Frank, how much do you get per mention? lol
Frank: I gotta know.....one buddy to another......when you DON'T mention Chomsky in one of your notes, do you break out into a cold sweat???
Xanadu: Unfortunately, the 24 folks have already said that there will be no DVD. Though it is a blast of a show, they don't see a profit in packaging it into a DVD. My take on the assassination plot, from about the 4th episode on, has always been........
POSSIBLE SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER
----------------------------------
The candidate's wife is behind the assassination. She seems to get more and more Hillary Clintonesque (power hungry and shifty) as it goes along. Kill off the honest hubby right before the electio