David~ Okay, you know the Internet is shrinking when...
Did you know you have a post that made it into alt.humor.best-of-usenet? "Subject: Re: Is this group about books? "
L.
AAAAAAAAAAAAGGGGGGHHHH!
Frickin' Derek Jeter!
When will it stop, God? When do I get to see the rabbits, George?
*whimpers*
I knew it was all too easy......
Re: "sending a message"...what's been ironic to me is that typically the message that is actually put forth is the OPPOSITE of the one these folks seem intent on sending.
For example - Bush going to the World Series to prove how "safe" it is for folks to the go to the World Series. Well, if it's so safe, why make an issue? I understand that his message is that he's not afraid to show his face, but let's face it - that's meaningless for a guy who has a battalion of security guards with him everywhere he goes, and who has probably been given every available innoculation against possible biohazards.
Same with all the flying politicians have done. I've been on six or seven flights since September 11th, but I'm not looking for accolades. I'm just living my flippin' life. And I'd personally be more convinced if the media folks and politicians would just go back to conducting theirs without having to haul out the heavy symbolism every time they take a step or tighten their ties.
And that's the message I'm just about to send... ;-)
Lorin O.
Frank,
Ah, the "libertarian" method of takin "anything" that's wrong with a "system," magnify it by a "hundred" and claim that it's the end-all-be-all of a "situation." No one's arguing that the capitalistic system we live under is flawed and (to an extent) corrupt. That's human. It's also human to work for improvement. Advocating Socialism, to me, is nothing near an improvement - it's a step backward to despotism, and an willful ignoring of mankind's wish to control it's own individual destiny.
Oh, and referencing Chomsky to me is about as effective as referencing John Maynard Keynes.
Joseph
Joseph: Even ask any Libertarian and they will tell you that we do not have an actual "Capitalist" system. Actually, what we have is a "Socialized" corporatocracy, that is based on "Fascistic" forms of structure. Noam Chomsky has reported on this for years. Read, and you learn grasshopper.
Government subsidy of Corporations--or social welfare to the laymen--does not qualify this system as a pure "Capitalist" mode of governance. If we end Corporate Welfare we would have a true "market" system, but Corporations would never go for that, because the structures that are in place, make them lots more money in the long run. Also, Government subsidy keeps many Corporations from going bankrupt. Corporate, back alley bribes are what keep the money train rolling. So to say we even have this wonderful "Capitalist" system in the first place is hilarious, to say the least.
Only the "little guy" is forced to abide by "market rules". We don't pay our bills, we get fucked. If a Corporation cannot do the same, they are given Govenment dollars. So in a way we have a Socialist system, but for the rich, not for the rest of us. A Pure system once again, would scare any Corporation silly. Joseph, remember, these guys are about one thing: The bottom line. They could care less about fair wages or slave shops in in the third world. They only care about the kitty bein served. This is not my idea of a great economic model for this country. A form of Socialism is the only fair system. But I am sure I will hear the bats coming out of the rafters now.
Dig it: There's an Islamic Cultural Center across the street from this hunny-rich harem I call my apartment. So I'm driving past it yesterday on my way to an appointment with the Study Abroad office. I notice an abundance of cop cars and fire trucks parked in front. As it behooves any good citizen to do in those situations, I peeled my eyes away from the road ahead and slowed to a crawl. Not twenty feet away I spotted about four Moon Men, resplendent in full biohazard gear, huddled around in a circle fiddling with an array of ominous gadgets and whoozits. I read in the paper this morning that someone had sent the Islamic Center a letter that was covered in white powder, which of course tured out to be nothing harmful.
Not a sight one is necessarily prepared for, even in light of the current anthrax scares. I'll file that one under SURREAL.
J
Lynn wrote: "David~ So what you're saying is that you don't have a problem with the *actual* message being sent, you just have
a problem with them trying to point out what 'message' is attempting to be sent, am I right?"
Precisely. Whenever someone says "this sends a message," he (and it's usually a "he") is in effect looking out of the corner of his eye and hoping the rest of the populace is trooping in right behind him. It's as much as to say, "Now, children, this is what I want you to believe." It's an insult to our intelligence, a version of the royal/editorial "we."
Lynn continues: "Maybe if the politicians and the press weren't so concerned with the message they're trying to send, they'd wake up and realize the kind of message they're *actually* sending."
YES!
STOP TRYING TO SEND A GODDAMN MESSAGE AND JUST DO YOUR DAMN JOB!!!
Andrew Rogers: To call the replacement "animatronic" is an insult to animals, who at least have instincts.
He'll be a 'droid veep.
(Sounds like something R2D2 would say....)
David~ So what you're saying is that you don't have a problem with the *actual* message being sent, you just have a problem with them trying to point out what "message" is attempting to be sent, am I right?
Maybe if the politicians and the press weren't so concerned with the message they're trying to send, they'd wake up and realize the kind of message they're *actually* sending.
L.
http://cagle.slate.msn.com/agifs/ohmanYankeestall.gif
23/32
Lynn:
I've been puzzling over your example of "messages sent" for most of the day -- whether you meant them as positive examples or negative ones.
I think the latter, but that doesn't disprove my point: Nobody was out there bloviating for the press about "sending a message" in these instances, because they didn't/don't have a message they want to send; they're just ducking and covering, trying to regain their balance while trying to figure out what the f**k is going on.
We can read out of that whatever message we like.
Scott~ Thumbs up. My box is already doing drugs, my cat 'editorializes' with glee, and if I had more time, there's nothing I'd enjoy more than harassing street corner messiahs. And damned if I don't look out the window and stare at the Mountain every frellin' day.
As to the question of Cheney... What if something did happen to Bush and this guy has to take office? Would anyone even remember him at this point?
L.
PS. Lorin~ ::GRIN::
Lorin,
My fiance and I have been talking about Cheney for a couple of weeks. We're both of the opinion that they're still working some bugs out of his animatronic replacement.
Anyone care to wager on it?
-Andrew
Oh, and for my fellow Yankee haters, here's Rick Reilly's take on the...erm..."unique" outfield stands at Bank One Ballpark:
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/inside_game/magazine/life_of_reilly/news/2001/10/31/life_of_reilly/
Lynn: My husband and I have a theory that Cheney is actually DEAD, and they're just waiting for a good time to tell us....
Lorin O.
(Spheres rule!)
Joseph:
"I was responding to Brian's contention that Democrats feel entitled to the liberal vote when I made by statement. As a so-called liberal vote, I simply defined what I was talking about about, the reasonable vote. It was not meant as a slam on liberal voters. "
Well, considering that it was I also who said that the Democrats feel entitled to the liberal vote, you can see why I took exception to it as well. You said you didn't care about the liberal vote, which is fine. Clearly Mr. Gore feels the same way you do, which is why he is not president now.
Obviously, I do not think Nader made a bad decision by running for President. The two-party system (can we all agree it's a bad idea?) doesn't work anymore, but it's never going to change until someone has the stones to take on the Big Two. Whoever does so risks being pilloried, derided, and disregarded-- who better then to rise to this challenge than Ralph Nader?
Yes, Nader is a millionaire. Read: *self-made* millionaire, not an extraordinarily rich corporate Little Lord Fauntleroy. It's laughable to comment on Nader's relatively meager assets, which he uses to fund positive legislation, than Bush and Gore. Let's get some perspective. No, Nader isn't perfect, but he looks like a saint in comparison.
I do not think Gore and Bush were carbon copies of each other. I do, however, feel that Gore was barely a moderate. As Frank said, he's pretty close to the right on issues like marijuana legislation (hypocrite!), abortion (his personal feelings are anti-), censorhip (hi Tipper), the death penalty, NAFTA, and oil.
If we're talking about the environment, you are definitely choosing the lesser of the two evils if you are choosing Gore. There is no way to contend that Gore has or would do more for the environment than Nader has already done. If you're pro-oil, you're anti-environment, as far as I'm concerned.
TODD: The election was actually rather amusing, in a horrifying way. The whole thing filled me with despair, but I did find it incredibly, blackly comic the way Gore gave that election away. It was like laughing at a funeral, not out of mirth, out of sheer nerves.
HAPPY SAMHAIN.
Bermanator
Scott,
It isn't the board, it's Hotmail itself that's behind your spam woes. Most Hotmail accounts (mine included) wind up on a member directory that spammers use for their nefarious mass mailings. I get tons of spam in my Hotmail account. On the other hand my accounts with other providers get almost none.
-Andrew
Frank,
Not vote for Gore because he's pro-capitalist? Wouldn't you rather have a capitalist run a capitalistic economy? Not sure I see your point here, except a cheap shot against the only economic system that has worked in the historical long run.
Alex,
I tend to think that the era of player managers is over due to the acrimonious relations between players and ownership. Also, the increased specialization of players might be a factor.
Regards,
Joseph
It's a good thing I saw how many other people had gotten this stupid "Lisa Cunningham" e-mail. I was thinking, "Who is Lisa Cunningham, and why is she e-mailing me about certificates?"
I deleted it on sight. I don't know about anyone else, but I've always been kinda leery about opening 208K e-mails from people I don't know.
And as far as spamming goes, ever since I first posted here, I get mortgage offers and "free diploma" junk out the wazoo. That's life, innit?
Lynn: "If you loved me, you'd all kill yourselves tomorrow." Right? Have I got it placed or what?
Why don't I have Filthy Assistants to carry my stuff for me?
Scott
Quick hit before I go off to work: Remember, Schilling was the first one to raise the question of coming back after three days' rest, back after the first game. Being a lifelong Phillies fan and having watched Schill for years, I'd bet he begged for it.
And it's a good managerial decision, win or lose. The Yankers have a history of coming back when down 2-0, they have a three-game homestand, and a win by the D-backs there in Yankee Stadium would strengthen their resolve while demoralizing the Yanks--plus, even if they lost the last Yankee Stadium game, they could take the next game in 'Zona.
Hmm. On the subject of baseball and Harlan, his longtime hero is Lou Boudreaux, the best player-manager since Cap Anson (bearing in mind that Boudreaux was a sweetheart and Cap Anson was a foul despot who originbally drew the color line). The player-managers since have been few and far between, with an abortive season by Pete Rose being the standout. In today's baseball, do you think there can again be player-managers?
My point stands: We have one party in America--the Corporate Party. The slight diffrences do not mean a thing in the long run. Would I prefer Gore over Bush? Sure. But voting for Nader was about making a real choice, and not just pandering to fear. Gore is not a Progressive, and I wanted one to be elected, so I voted for Nader, nuff said.
A good book to prove my point is, "Al Gore--An Owners Manual", by Alexander Cockburn. Shows all the votes that Gore has endorsed over the years.
But here are some of the reasons I could not in good consious of voted for Gore:
1. Welfare Reform bill.
2. Crime Bill. (Even the death penalty for kids!)
3. Nafta/GATT
4. Telecommunications Bill Of 1996, which basically gave the radio waves to big buisiness lock stock and barrel.
5. Supports death penalty.
7. Bigger military buildup, and for Star Wars.
8. Advocates media censorship, and stickering of rock albums for content.
9. Supported Clean Air Act, but sold out on it behind the scenes, in secret.
10. Is a Born Again Christian.
11. Pro Capitalist.
12. Pro WTO/Globalization.
13. Cannot Dance..haha.
And you ask me why I didn't vote for gore. For shame.
Growing up here, in Southern California, has made me pretty blase about quakes. I normally sleep right through 'em.
I'm still trying to decide whether or not my ambivalence makes me especially brave or a special kinda stupid though. :)
-Andrew
My mother reported an earthquake in Maine couple weeks back. We don't have many there and they're small, but---Christ! An earthquake just makes the hackles stand up and the mind go alert. Have only felt two in my lifetime: the first in Ithaca back before I had kids and the other while I was sleeping at my granparents' house in Maine. It rumbled and the house shook and at first I just thought it was some drunken rig-jockey taking the corner on 9 wheels. However, the rumble persisted and grew to where the cast-iron bed itself shook. Then it subsided and ceased.
Next morning, my beloved Yankee Grampie greeted me, "Good Mawnin'! Christ? Did you cut a Faht in y'sleep lahst night?"
Andrew~ That quake was way the hell and gone in San Berdue. I guess I'm finally getting used to that gentle swaying of the earth.
David~ re: 'Sending a message.' I think it's just as important to note the kind of message Bush sent by hip-hopping around the United States in Air Force One on September 11th instead of returning to the White House as soon as the threat was over. Or the kind of message that Cheney sends every day with his notable absence.
L.
PS. Happy Hallowe'en All! Virtual sweets for everyone.
Todd - That 2 inning suspended game was against my Padres. Schilling did not come back to finish the game, Johnson did (and struck out a crapload of Padres in doing so). On the other hand Woody Williams did come back and, though he took the loss, did not pitch badly.
-Andrew
Being a local, I get to listen to the game on the radio (walkman) while watching FOX so that the announcers do not ruin the experience. I basically hear both, but I pay most attention to the local Yankee gang....and they are damn good.
Schilling - mistake? Not? Who knows. As a big Yankee fan, I like the thought of him coming out on short rest just because he never has (the one time this year was after a two inning suspended game). All I know is that I think this decision makes Brenly look chicken. Come on....doesn't he have faith in a well rested Schilling for game five and Johnson for game six to beat the Yanks? It smells of panic....but we'll see.
-TODD
Rob,
To quote Rick Reilly, Jordan can bring the Wizards to the next level. Unfortunately, that's Sucks, a step above Dreadful. Personally, I think there's plenty of good stuff to look forward to. I think this may be the real Kobe Bryant and Vince Carter year - and I NEVER discount Malone/Stockton.
Andrew,
Like anything in baseball, I refuse to predict how Schilling's pitching tonight will look as a managerial decision until tomorrow morning. Could be genius, could be madness. Personally, I think Schilling could pull it off - even though he pitched about 102 pitches in Game 1, he felt fine, and can be a great intimidation factor (remember, they only scored 1 run against a 4-9 pitcher last night - Torre will not let them forget that and get too happy about the victory). Personally, I think tonight will be a bit higher scoring - 4-6 Arizona?
Regards,
Joseph
P.S. Happy Halloween everybody!
By the way...
Any SoCal folks here feel the quake last night?
-Andrew
Finally, I can get a break from you baseball freaks now that court-rippin basketball is back, with Jordan in a third debut leading the anemic Washington Wizards to scores unheard of; and Bryant and Shaq, and Singleton and Starks and Malone. It’s gonna be an interesting season.
I didn't hear any spitting (though, per usual, there was plenty to be seen). I *do* wish they hadn't dwelt on the cat in the dugout with that big wad o' chaw just a-bulgin' from his jaw, protruding from his lips and swirling with the tongue. Eeeeeyuck.
The rendition of "God Bless America" by the officer was one of the best I've heard throughout the postseason. The tone, pitch, and diction were perfect. No ugly, effected "AmerEEEca." Good, straight-ahead American short-i sound sung well.
... he typed emphatically, only noticing afterward that he would have to click on a box that reads "Send message"....
Fox mikes baseball fields for "sounds of the game" coverage? Do you get to hear the players spit tobacco REAL LOUD?
I really enjoyed the election, too, much as the outcome disturbed me. Elections used to be a lot more entertaining until about 1980.
Here's my rant for the day: I HATE the phrase "sends a message" in all its permutations, and wish it could be banned for at least a few years.
This morning's example on the news was the innocuous explication of President Bush's presence at last night's game by Joe Torre. But watch for future uses by people with real power (or their mouthpieces), especially U.S. Congresspersons.
Proper translation of the phrase "sends a message": "This is the interpretation I'm praying other people take from it."
What it really means: "I'm engaging in PR/spin/damage control."
What are its effects: Almost nil. The vast majority of potential hearers don't give a shit, and the people who are specifically targeted by "the message" either know it's a lie, or have their minds staunchly made up on behalf of the opposite point of view.
In other words, "this sends a message" means "I'm deluding myself."
Todd/Joseph - To be honest, I've never liked Fox's baseball broadcasts. Especially the way they mic the field like a football game. I find the whole "sounds of the game" thing much more annoying than the ads. As far as the announcing goes, Joseph's right McCarver and Buck suck rocks. The ESPN radio play-by-play is much better (with Joe Morgan and someone else who's name escapes me).
-Andrew
P.S. What do you guys think of Brenly's decision to bring Schilling in on 3 days rest? -AR
Todd,
A) I have to admit, the election was a hell of a lot of fun. Sue me - I'm a political process junkie.
B) Take a look at today's www.chicagosuntimes.com for a good column by Richard Roeper on those asinine backstop ads. Fox should be ashamed.
Regards,
Joseph
While everyone debates the election, I just wanted to make a quick point: wasn't it a hoot? Unfortunately, today's news blows it out of the water, but once all the bitterness subsides over who won and who didn't win and what a ripoff and waitaminute why couldn't Gore win his own damn state or Billy C's state and make the Florida question moot: Wasn't that one hell of a fun election?
Think about it.....before Florida even happened, election eve was damn exciting. I remember being glued to that teevee. It was like an extra inning game 7 World Series. The tension was thick. And waking up in the morning to hear that it had not yet been decided......wow, as a person who enjoys seeing how the various media cover major news stories, who could ask for anything more? Forget the bitterness....Bush is President, deal with it like you dealt with any other President you didn't like (as I dealt for the previous 8 years).....the story itself was just so damn exciting and dareIsayit fun!
Speaking of the World Series......how distracting are those blue-screen ads behind the batter/catcher?!?! The first game I didn't really notice them until the blaring white ones came on with the monstrous picture of Ally McBeal. Good God, can we get even the slightest piece of class out of this? I noticed last night that they did not go for the blaring white monstrosities, but they are still quite noticable because they are not melding that perfectly with the background. Yeesh. What a horror.
And speaking of horrors: who the hell let PumpkinHead Rosie O'Donnell sit behind the home plate last night? She was more distracting than the ads! I don't think I caught her watching the game once.....she just ate and talked and ate and talked and looked at the field only when a foul ball hit the backstop.
Ahhh, I feel better now.
-TODD
Joseph,
Hey. Absolutely. That dopey voluntary program of Bush's in Texas was an unspeakable joke. The corporate goons had a field day turning the region into an over-busy toilet bowl. There's no friggin' way Gore would've allowed that.
Rob,
Thanks for the 1st-hand account. If we want to look at the even wider view, let's consider Gore and Bush on greenhouse gases.
Gore: Writes a book entitled "Earth in the Balance," which was slightly over the top, but presented the opinion of every reputable plantary scientist that Earth's atmosphere was heating up due to greenhouse gaes from industrialization. Sponsored further study of future climactic change with President Clinton.
Bush: gutted the Natural Resource Conservation Commission (Texas' EPA) and made most industrial compliance with environmental regulations voluntary. According to a tri-national NAFTA commission, Texas became the worst polluter in Canada or the United States. Take a look at the Bush environmental legacy here,at the Texas Observer: http://bushfiles.com/00_04_14/000414_bush_and_environment.htm. It'll scare the hell out of you. Scared the hell out of me, and was a major reason I didn't vote for Bush (well, that and his cavalier attitude toward sending hundreds of people to their death).
Regards,
Joseph
For you guys spiraling into the Twilight Zone with your denials of differences between Gore and Bush in such absolutes:
In an ideal universe, I prefer Nader to take the lead. But we don't live in an ideal universe. In the one we DO live in strong differences do exist bet. Gore and Bush, whatever likenesses you choose to embrace (similar constituents in the last election, Gore's one oil investment, etc.)
I worked for an environmental organization for a year. In scientists' efforts to save an intelligent endangered species and the rainforests of Indonesia (the former indigent to the region; the latter critical to the globe's eco-balance) at the hands of pochers, the Clinton Administration allocated funds for several years. Gore took an active interest in the efforts and promised a continuation and possible increase in grants after winning the election. The moment Bush took office it was all cut off; every damn cent. Not even a prospect has been discussed.
For all his faults and irritating pandering, Gore would've been far better for issues like these; it's a fact I saw first hand.
Jim,
A) I just spit on the screen with laughter over your costume idea. That was great.
B) My distinction between Nader and Perot is a matter of intent (and I think you're overestimating Perot's impact in that election's electoral college). Perot ran a serious campaign intended to reach the White House. Nader, by all indications, ran to make a point. Again, this is my opinion.
Oh, and whoever made the quite reasonable comment about Nader's past performance as a corporate gadfly and consumer advocate: of course. Doesn't mean I can't criticize him for a bad decision. (If you want a good look at how Nader can have neck as stiff as anyone else, take a look at Andrew Tobias' book, "My Vast Fortune," and read up on Nader's unreasonable opposition to California automobile insurance).
Regards,
Joseph
P.S.
Can't Fox hire any better baseball commentators? McCarver and Buck are giving me a headache. Where's Costas?
Just a short aside re:the Lisa Cunningham thingee. To those who feel left out - I got 49 of the damn things, three yesterday and 46 today - one every four or five minutes from 7:25am to 11:05am - my ISP berated ME (gently, via form email) for using up bandwidth and storage space. So, to those who still feel left out - I got plenty of love to share - want some? (and even though I'm a Mac user, I officially hate SIRCAM - having been hit by it just over one hundred times since it showed up in July.)
Joseph (you lovable Nader-bashing, Halloween-hating freak, you): Here's an idea for a costume. Take a bunch of those credit card applications that you get in the mail, tape them all over your body, conceal yourself at work, and then randomly jump out at people (preferably scaring the crap out of them). When they ask you what you are doing, scream, "I'M A POP-UP AD!"
Hey, whaddya want for nothin'?
I pledged I wasn't gonna get dragged into yet another Nader debate, but I want to point out a few things:
First, the election results were SO slimly divided, ANY left-leaning third party could have made the difference for Gore. The Socialist Workers Party, the Natural Law Party, the Communist Party, the Workers World Party, etc.--almost ALL of them had enough members to put Gore over the top in Florida. So it's hardly fair to single out the Greens as the culprit in Election 2000.
Second, I don't think there are many regrets by Nader voters, even after the election debacle. Most of the people who claimed that they were going to vote for the Greens, ended up switching to Gore at the last moment. So anyone who actually punched the hole for Nader, did so because he/she really believed he was the best candidate. In an age of voter cynicism and apathy, that's an admirable thing (even if you don't agree with Nader's politics).
Third, if you're going to castigate Nader for "throwing" the election to Dubya, then you should praise Ross Perot for helping to put Bill Clinton in the White House. The Reform Party pulled 19 million votes in '92--TELL me most of them weren't disgruntled Republicans who would have voted for Bush I. Just keep a little perspective, is all I'm saying.
And no, I don't think the two parties are carbon copies of each other. But when you're forced to speak of their political differences in relative terms, something is clearly wrong.
End of Lecture. (Audiotapes are available at...)
Rob: I flipped through what I THOUGHT was the current issue of Scarlett Street last night. I didn't see your article anywhere. Is it in the NEXT issue?
Everyone: I just want to put a plug in for the new CD, "Give Me Your Hump!"--The Unspeakable Terry Southern Record. Southern was the great humorist/writer who penned the novels CANDY and THE MAGIC CHRISTIAN, and the screenplays for DR. STRANGELOVE and EASY RIDER, among others. The CD features exerpts from his books, read by Southern, Marianne Faithfull, Allen Ginsberg, and many more. It is simply the most gleefully obscene recording I've heard in a long time. And funny? Oy, you don' vant to KNOW how funny...
Jim
Some clarifications...
Frank,
Gore a carbon copy of Bush? C'mon. That's like saying the Democratic Party is a carbon copy of the Republican Party. An untenable statement.
P.A. Berman,
I was responding to Brian's contention that Democrats feel entitled to the liberal vote when I made by statement. As a so-called liberal vote, I simply defined what I was talking about about, the reasonable vote. It was not meant as a slam on liberal voters.
Regards,
Joseph
Andrew~ For shame, man. It's Ticketmaster. It's what they do best. Don't be complainin' cause they didn't kiss you first.
To those of you who know 'Transmetropolitan,' I just got done reading 'The Year Of The Bastard' which makes this whole Dole/Bush/Nader discussion particularly humorous. Spider Jerusalem is my new hero. Sorry Harlan.
L.
So,
-- and don't take this the wrong way, please, since I've really no idea about the copyright laws in this case --
would it be possible to get a copy of the tapes of the Ellison appearance someone mentioned waaay waaay near the end of this page? Or is that impossible due to copyright/HE's preferences?
Seeing as I'll probably never get to see HE live, being geographically challenged, and all that... (whine, etc.)
Lynn,
Bought my tickets online through Ticketmaster (something I wouldn't care to repeat) so I paid even more in fees (2 tickets, $40.25).
BTW LA drivers (actually all SoCal drivers)are not so good rain or shine (just worse in the rain). ;)
-Andrew
Joseph: To say that there is a vast difference between Gore and Bush is to be quite ill informed. Gore is the carbon copy with Bush on so many issues it would take all night to map them out. Nader understood this, and that is why he fought the good fight; except for my small quibles.
The Democrats gave in to Corporate America a long time ago, so I really don't feel much sympathy. Actually, many Republicans are critical of Bush on his handling of this war so far.
Now Rumsfeld is saying they may never find Bin Laden. Then why in the hell are we there in the first damn place?? But would Gore handle it any better? I doubt it. Gore, the beard wearing boho is better off in obscurity. We need fresh blood.
HARLAN,
Operation "Enduring..." was a big, big success. I can't express enough my admiration for your generosity (and Susan's, too). You're all right, Ellison. I don't care _what_ they say about you. (Har, Har, Har...)
Next week, we square the circle, and get the Cumaen Sybil started on a program of Retin-A!
Captain Midnight
Joseph, c'mon, you can't post a huge message like that and *then* say you're going to drop it. No fair.
"Ah, the liberal vote. Don't care. I'm talking about the reasonable vote"
Snippy, snippy, snippy. Don't be like that... Being liberal does not make me unreasonable, nor is it a bad word. It's been sullied over the years, but I hold onto it because that's what I am and I'm proud of it.
When I vote, I vote for the candidate I think is the best man, who cares about me, my livelihood, and the environment. Essentially, you are criticizing me for not giving in to fear and letting go of my principles. So be it.
"not handing over the United States government to the Christian Right and the worst polluters in the country"
I handed nothing over (not even my vote to The Dems, who are arrogant enough to feel I owe it to them *because* I'm a liberal and I fear the Republicans-- talk about blackmail. Would they respect me in the morning?). I made a positive choice to stand up for what I believe in. If I wanted Bush to be president, I would have voted for him. Do you give the Republicans who voted for Bush this much shit? Why all this bitterness at Nader when there are much more relevant and appropriate targets?
"Just because Bush (so far) won the election doesn't mean I have to stop complaining about the manner in which it happened."
Who told you to stop complaining? I think I recommended that you complain about the election farce rather than Nader, since those shenanigans are what lost the election for Gore... and he conceded, need I remind you.
"Nothing against the Greens, but they hold the place for me of a small vocal minority - worth a listen too, good for a useful point, but part of a self-imposed exile from United States political life."
Ummm, Nader ran for President. If that's exile from the American political life, what's being involved mean to you? How about the fact that I registered numerous voters, took students to be election inspectors (where they were illegally harassed by A DEMOCRAT for representing the Green Party), wrote letters, got petitions signed for campaign finance reform and environmental issues. Again, berate all the people who don't vote and don't raise awareness for being in self-imposed exile, not me.
Nader has been deeply involved in the political process in this country for decades. He has changed your life for the better whether you know it/admit it or not. What has Gore done for you lately? He's a big oil man himself, never had to work a day in his life, and gives no more of a damn about you than Bush does.
Why are we still so far from becoming independent of foreign oil when we had 8 years of Democratic rule to start changing that? Hmmm?
"'the major parties are basically the same" argument.'"
The two candidates in this case were basically the same. It was eerie to see them debate and trip over themselves agreeing with each other.
The two-party system is bad for America. It violates the spirit of democracy and the concepts of the Founding Fathers. All in all, it's an idea whose time has come to an end. The Greens are trying to change it, and if some eggs have to be broken, at least maybe someday we'll have omelets.
"It doesn't hold any water, based on things like voting records, human rights records, environmental support, worker's rights, international relations, and so on, and so on."
If you think so, that's your prerogative.
Bermanator
'Lorin' has five letters thus explaining your dissynchronicity with timecube. The last initial 'O' predisposes your untapped spherical nature to infinity theories which are stupid. Take your fur-covered banana and begone.
23/32
I'll reply to Joseph's points in order.
1) On the matter of what former vice-president normally do, Joseph asks me to report what Mondale, Quayle, and Ford have been doing. Glad to. Mondale ran for President in 1984, lost, and returned to a private law practice. He served as ambassodr to Japan during the Clinton administration. Quayle also mounted Presidential bid, and he's written a book and a newspaper column, and he's working at the Hudson institute. Ford spent his time after his Vice-Presidential term by being President for four years.
But Joseph is asking a misleading question. None of these men ran for President and lost in a very closely contested election which may very well have been won through systematic voter discrimination. So, even apart from the _personal_ stake Gore had for the Presidency, this sitting vice-president was faced with evidence that the democratic process was corrupted in Florida. The situtaion _demanded_ some kind of action, if only to defend the democratic process. Did he order an investigation? Did he use any of the powers of the Vice-Presidency to investigate this unsurpation of democracy? _NO_. Gore went off to lick his wounds. And his only commentary on the current Presidency has been to proclaim his support for Bush.
2) The claim that Gore would've been better than Bush is one of those unprovables. I'd be glad to consult my copy of _Al Gore: A User's Manual_ and cite examples of Gore's opportunistic use of environmental politics. But I'd also like to point another aspect of this question. When the Republicans propose some environmental rape, activists have no trouble getting busy over the prospect of the Republicans doing evil. But the Democrats have done equally horrible things without anywhere _near- the public outcry: even Daniel Moynihan was astounded that Clinton was able to get "welfare reform" through Congress without very much opposition, and what Clinton got was _worse_ than anything the Republicans had dared propose. In other words: if Gore was in the White House, he'd have a much easier time opening up the Alaskan oil fields. And he'd do it.
3) As for handling terrorism.... well, I'm happy for you that you think Clinton "succeeded" in the Balkans. Personally, I think his failure to have taken any action against Tujdman and Milosevic when they could have been stopped is a big minus for the man. But, by your own criteria, George Bush Sr. scored a big plus for his successful handling of the Gulf War.
4) We're in agreement over the horrifying "handling" of this war. Thing is, given the precedents of the Gulf War, Bosnia, and other recent adventures, I doubt that Gore's handling would have been much different from what we're seeing with Bush. I can say, with absolute confidence, that Nader wouldn't be making these same mistakes.
I must respond to your earlier comments, blaming Ralph Nader for every evil that Bush might visit upon us. Frankly, I cannot see any logic in what you say. If Nader bears responsibility for what Bush does, then why not blame Gore for failing to mount a more effective campaign? For dropping the ball? For not raising his voice in protest over every awful spectacle Bush gives us? In fact, why not denounce every Democrat who votes along with the Republicans?
But we don't see this from the Nader-bashers. All we see are contortions devoted to blaming Ralph Nader-- who could only manage less than 4% of the popular vote-- for the evils of a different person entirely, and whose actions are abetted by Democrats and Republicans alike. I cannot see any rational basis for this, and I am forced to blame it on some kind of psychosis shared by Democrats.
FYI, there is a $2.50 service charge PER TICKET for inconveniencing the California Center for the Arts by purchasing your ticket over the phone. Apparently putting tickets in an envelope, addressing said envelope, and then mailing said envelope is damned strenuous work. Right up there with answering the phone in the first place. Pesky customers.
L.
I am another of the great unloved....(by Lisa C.) Ah, well.
Justin: No problem. Hope it helped. Report back after the writing workshop is over, will you?
Lynn: Thanks for the recommendations. I have worn out one copy of the first Deep Forest. Don't have much Enigma, though I've heard them, of course. Will check that one out. (Always thought that was "getting-sexed-up" music! :))
Brian: People really stopped being your friend because you voted for Nader? Lousy friends.
I just pointed at my Nader-voting-friends and said, "THIS IS ALL YOUR FAULT." ;-)
Seriously, I will say that my three close friends who voted for Nader ALL said they would do it differently if they had it to do all over again. (Pretty sure that means three votes for Gore, and since we're Floridians, who knows--they may have helped!)
A question: Have any of you read anything about Afghanistan's untapped oil reserves, and how they may have a LOT to do with our involvement there?
I've had two people mention this to me, but have seen nothing online to support (or, for that matter, invalidate) the idea.
Re: timecube - do you think we should write to the guy and tell him that 8:00 a.m. to 8:00 a.m. is ALSO a day, as is 8:01 to 8:01, 8:02 to 8:02, etc? Or would his brain explode?
Spherically yours,
Lorin O.
PAB~ :( I wanted to go to Ithaca. Youa culpa indeed.
Andrew~ Yes, well. I'm not looking forward to the commute home. Rain is good. LA drivers in rain, not so good.
L.
SORRY... I meant that last message to go to Cookie.
Forgive me, mea culpa.
Bermanator
Lynn--
E-mail me privately. I may be going to Ithaca this weekend, but not on Friday... but you might convince me. I lived in Ithaca for 10 years and was a bartender at the Chapter House. Where are you playing?
Bermanator
Lynn,
I'm jealous, they keep threatening us with rain down here but, so far, nuttin'.
Sigh...
-Andrew
HELP! Terrorists are attacking LA!!! There is currently WATER falling out of the sky! I can see the pavement growing slick and dark from my fourth storey window!! Someone call the FBI!!
Signed, Been so long I forgot what rain looked like,
L.
Heather - glad to see you overcame and returned. If you're going to be criticized, this is probably the nicest crowd to deliver it. Good to know any comments didn't throw you off permanently.
Alex - I didn't receive any Lisa emails either. Supposed we're both unloved. Got any worms?
Cookie - I'm convinced it's me, not you!
Lynn, Andrew - I'm jealous.
Lorin, thanks for the info!
J
To the Masked of Many Faces:
I believe you since I doubt anyone with the intent to put a worm through would be retarded enough to bring any attention to himself in the forum. On the other hand a nice air of McCarthyist paranoia might be good for a forum every now and then. Turn in your online friends today! Kazan, move over!
Finally, remember: if you continue strolls through here you walk sacred cyber-turf. If you stay here you must genuflect and kiss Harlan's robe; and once a week a goy must be sacraficed in his cherished name (which means I better convert damn fast).
David,
Two words: eeeewwwww, gross!
Everyone Else,
Are any of the So-Cal Webderlanders planning on attending the event in Escondido on the 15th?
-Andrew
My wife Carole has never forgotten the time a girl showed up to a Halloween party at the University of Michigan dressed as a tampon:
"As I recall, she wore a close-fitting white outfit that included a hood and she had a piece of white cotton rope attached to the top of her hood/head."
That must have been pretty shocking for the time -- in 1962 or '63!
Alex,
You are an evil, evil man. I love it!
Joseph
JOSEPH: One year in the reign of Bush the First, after some really bad ruling had come down from the Supreme Court, I got an old pair of black sweatpants, ripped 'em in a few places, wrote on them in white ink, and paired them with a white t-shirt which was also holed and ripped, stained with a dark bootprint and some orange juice for verisimilitude, and had calligraphed on it "We the People ..." and went as the US Constitution.
Mostly, what I've been doing for Hallowe'en in years since is crafting very realistic bullet wounds right between and above the eyes, with no other costuming. You wouldn't believe the number of cops and such who've freaked, then laughed.
(The one time I caught a quick nap in a food court was especially effective ...)
Oh, yay. I have to wear a Halloween costume to work tomorrow. Any suggestions, since I'm a crank who doesn't like Halloween?
Okay, you.. you..you..Mystery Webderlander..I gotta bone to pick with you.
$22.66. TWENTY-TWO DOLLARS AND SIXTY-SIX CENTS, DO YA HEAR?
I was gonna buy milk this week, perhaps a small, cheap package of flat, dull pasta--I coulda LIVED like a king. Yanno? Yanno?
Instead, there I was, emptying my bank account and pouring loonies, twoonies, pennies and dimes on the post office counter, much to the amusement of the teller, to pay the GST and PST on this damn parcel. What an adventure, heh? (By the by, she said she needed the change so yer off the HOOK there, boyo.)
And I hadta LUG this huge, huge, huge, box to the university where I'm now late for work and and.. and..
ooooohhh...
I love it. I'll do without the milk.
Thank you, Syd.
Heather loves Syd.
I know, I said I would I never post here again. But I still like to read the board, and I have to post now to simply say: this virus thing isn't me. I too have received it, at least five times, and anyone is welcome to check with c4.com's administration on that point. Obviously my e-mail was picked up in the same way everyone else's was: I've never rec'd a virus at tmb@c4.com before, an address I only use for anonymous posting to boards.
(I have also contact c4.com, informing them that they need to upgrade their virus software. You all should do the same, if it's getting through...I tried to forward the virus to my work e-mail address, and that server caught it right away.)
TMB
David: I basically agree that assassination shouldn't become an official policy of the US, but damned if the ironies don't abound. It's pretty common knowledge that the CIA has covertly used it as an instrument for decades--witness the Allende killing and the botched assassination in the early '80s of a terrorist supporter in Beirut--and I doubt that the American special forces in Afghanistan aren't engaging in some secret wetwork activity, as well. Not to mention the basic absurdity of Marquis of Queensberry rules regarding war. Apparently, it's ok to kill innocent civilians whom we claim we want to help, bomb structures that we'll have to rebuild anyway, and expend massive amounts of American troops, weapons, and money in the hope that, MAYBE, we'll nail a small group of terrorists and political leaders--but it's wrong to avoid all this by putting a few well-placed bullets in the proper heads? And I don't believe that an open use of assassination by the US would ring the dinner bell for the crazies of the world any louder than it's been rung already. However, my superego insists that it's immoral, though I'm damned if I know why...
To go off on a not-completely-unrelated tangent: Given the Anthrax scare that has swept the nation, it's kind of funny (not funny ha-ha, but funny ironic) that very little attention has been focused on the REAL biological threat: Influenza. Twenty-thousand people die from it every year, and that number has gone up to fifty-thousand in times of epidemic. If the news media devoted even a small percentage of its Anthrax coverage to urging Americans to get inoculated against the flu, some lives may be saved. But it's not as Le Carre-ish as powder-filled envelopes, I guess.
And am I the only one who thinks that Pixie Stix will NOT be a popular Halloween treat for kids this year? (To be replaced by bottles of Cipro, I bet. It must SUCK to be a tot these days...)
Jim
Sniff.
Nobody loves me.
I've been posting on this board for years, and Lisa didn't seek ME out.
(Of course, it might have been one that I got; I just delete spam out-of-hand)
Regarding the misnamed "Patriot Act": I'm writing my local Congresspersons and Senators on this one, and I am going to be standing up whenever I can in violation of it. I can't WAIT for this one to get to the Supremes.
(And yes; I work for the federal government, and never have I been more ashamed of that fact.)
Just wanted to post my email on the offchance that THE BERMANTOR might wish to venture north to meet me. Didn't want to make him wade through the board to find it.
To answer some points:
A) How is any of that laying low for Gore? That's quite normal ex-vice president behaviour. Anyone, without looking it up, know what Dan Quayle is doing these days? Mondale? Ford?
B) Never claimed Bush wasn't fairly elected, because the results aren't released yet from the media-financed study. They've been sitting on it for the moment, what with some more pressing matters to deal with (which I don't agree with, but that's the facts). Check out the Poynter Institute's MediaNews.org for more details. However, it's fairly clear that Nader split the vote enough, allowing the Bush administrations (otherwise known as the big-business cabinet) to slip in.
C) Ah, the liberal vote. Don't care. I'm talking about the reasonable vote, not handing over the United States government to the Christian Right and the worst polluters in the country (aka, the Texas energy businessmen in the Bush administration). I feel a great wave of pity for my Republican friends who have had their party stolen.
D) Just because Bush (so far) won the election doesn't mean I have to stop complaining about the manner in which it happened. That's like saying I can't complain about Dukakis' nitwit campaign managers from 1988.
E) Nothing against the Greens, but they hold the place for me of a small vocal minority - worth a listen too, good for a useful point, but part of a self-imposed exile from United States political life. I just wish they'd come in from the cold and participate, instead of standing outside and shouting to the point that people simply tune them out. Kind of like the Reform party.
F) My apologies for being snippy. I'm just tired of hearing the "the major parties are basically the same" argument. It doesn't hold any water, based on things like voting records, human rights records, environmental support, worker's rights, international relations, and so on, and so on. You obviously believe differently, and I'll stop this arghument now, as we have both stated our sides.
Besides, it's time for bed. Night all!
Regards,
Joseph
That's "LIFE of the average American," and did I mention that my typing skills stink on ice?
Bermanator: just wanted to say that I, too, was a New Yorker for Nader (but of course! I live in Ithaca: Birkenstock, patchouli, capitol of the region if not the Northeast).
I agree with your assessment. I wanted desperately (as a "good democrat") to vote for Gore, but the progressive in me just wouldn't let me pull that lever.
Alas! It's now all water under the (Brooklyn) bridge.
BTW: am singing in Ithaca next Friday. Email if you have any interest in being my guest. No cover and I'll gladly buy you and a friend (or friends plural ---within reason and budget of course) a round of drinks or somethin'.....
:)
(PS: Crazy 'round these parts these days. Rick, as always, is a wise and gracious host. The conversation certainly isn't boring even if you're only eavesdropping from the periphery! My big Internet Paranoia these days is thinking that *I'm* the gibberatic poster Brian Siano chooses to ignore. Ach! The ANGST!)
Frivolous points re: Nader, et al,
1) My only gripe with Nader is that on his campaign he ceaselessly shoved pitch forks up Gore's ass while scarcely mentioning Bush; he would almost NEVER mention Bush. TOTALLY unfair. If there was more parity in his blitz I wouldn't have been disturbed by his run at all. He certainly had a right to run; no one should be screaming hell about that. But Gore, whose programs were much closer to his than Bush's, was ALWAYS the target. (The inference is he wanted Bush to win so the country could take SUCH a dive as to give the Green Party a stronger case in the future; meanwhile I have to pay a price I may barely survive till that happens).
2) Yes, Gore - with all his drawbacks and compromises - would've easily made a greater difference on environment than Bush. It's ludicrous to even compare them. He was an unimaginative image-builder but he would've been better on the domestic matters than Bush.
3) Any one of these guys would've been taking the lead in the current Afghan crisis with at least as much facility as Bush; Clinton pulled off in the Balkans what no one had been able to do prior: rely completely on air attack for a successful war campaign with the least possible casualties. And I think he would've been flexible enough to come up with a different, more complex approach demanded by this new war. (On the other hand, ALL of the guys running the White House over the last several years miscalculated the ultimate security and intelligence needed to deal with Terrorism, when all the signals were there).
4) Re: 'American's vicory in Afghanistan'. I get the feeling that Bush's 'facility' in this war is being a bit over-touted. So far, we've managed to smash one of our own choppers, blow up UN buildings, rocket the wrong cities, kill civilians who weren't even near intended targets, and fumble a rescue plan for Abdul Haq. Not too shockingly we're not getting the rally of support from the moderates over there that we were expecting. Instead of building a strategic alliance with Israel, experts on the 'life-style' of terrorism and its psychology, we tell'em to knock it off as trouble-makers and behave themselves while we try and take the lead, flexing muscle with no brains, stumbling over ourselves like 'Dumb and Dumber', providing both amusement and growing sentiment for the Taliban. And THEN we wonder where they're getting their resolve to hold out. This affair may take years, not because of the complexity of Terrorism, but because it may take that long for us to find brain power. Yes, Bush deserves the credit he's getting for the grand show of 'America's Might'; his signature is alll over it.
And finally: I think it's an interesting cooincidence, a recent Harlan basher visiting briefly for a single-minded purpose, then just after his departure, a 'Lisa Cunningham' virus suddenly springs out using our addresses.
I would like to state for the record that I am not currently, nor have I ever been, educated stupid and evil by evil educators.
I also received the "Lisa Cunningham" e-mails--four in all, to be exact. The attachments were unopened, the messages were deleted, and the sender was blocked, as well. I restrict my use of the "scythian66" address to two places, Webderland being one of them, so it certainly seems plausible that a lurker has targeted this group. In addition, some other strange e-mails were sent to me over the past two days, and I can't tell if they're related to this "Lisa" virus or not. I'll keep you guys posted as the situation develops...
I've already stated that I'm a Floridian who voted for Nader, right? So, if you Gore-ites wanna bitch at anyone here, to borrow the words of Father Karras, "TAKE ME!!TAKE ME!!"
(I've had FAR too many arguments over the man, so I'm not gonna dive into one here. I WILL say that, hate his presidential campaign or not, Ralph Nader has done more to better the lives of the average American than any ten politicians you can name. Increased safety regulations in the auto industry? That's his doing. The Safe Drinking Water Act? Ditto. The Freedom of Information Act? Ditto redux. You know how, when your flight is delayed or cancelled, the airline puts you up in a hotel for the night? Damned if that isn't his doing as well. So don't demonize the man--hell, he could even turn into a Helms supporter, and it STILL wouldn't neutralize all the good he's done.)
(End of speech.)
Lynn: Yes, it's true. I am your half-brother. What can I say? Pappa was a rolling stone, wherever he laid his hat was his home, and when he diiieeeeed...
Scott: I heard from Heather on Saturday. She seems fine, and, well, still as Heatherish as always. E-mail her again.
Jim
Three lousy posts on the whole page & I got the stupid virus e-mails too. At least I consider the subject of my most recent post (my suggestion that you all, immediately, before downloading anti-virus software, read the complete works of W.G. Sebald) a noble act worthy of permanent hard drive damage. (And, yes, you may consider this a subtle reminder re: Sebald.)
While I'm here: Rob, the one thing better than The Tick animated series is the original 12 issues of The Tick comic written by creator Ben Edlund.
-AW
Joseph,
Nader did not hand the election to the oil companies. That is both unfair and inaccurate.
Gore himself is an oil interest, just to get that out there (hello, Occidental Petroleum). Why doesn't anyone blame Gore for handing the election to Bush? He failed to win his home state or Clinton's, and even though Clinton was nearly impeached, he would have been reelected in 2000 had *he* run. Talk about ineptitude. Gore blew it bigtime without Nader's help-- Nader only received 2 million votes, for god's sake.
Look at the big picture. Who screwed around in Florida and 'stole' the election from Gore? Why is no one railing against that anymore but still blaming Nader for Gore's defeat?
I wish more Democrats would accept the fact that they are not entitled to the liberal vote-- my vote is earned by the best man, not automatically granted to the Dems. Every time the Republicans step to the right, instead of holding the line, the Dems step right too. I could give many examples but I'm tired and it's a matter of public record anyway.
It's up to Greens and other alternative parties to hold the line. This country was never intended to be a solely two party system; many other nations offer their citizens more than two (corrupt lawyers with rich daddies and slick hairstyles) candidates with great success. For me, Nader was a considered, informed, deeply felt choice that no disgruntled Dem will convince me was wrong.
Even if you disagree with all of the above and can't respect my and Brian's decisions, I wish you would not berate people who vote for exercising their free thought and right to chose. Ain't that why we're proud to be Americans and all that? Direct your vitriol some really meaningful targets: the non-voters, the media, the lack of awareness, the campaign finance laws, the connivance of the Florida Republicans/Gov. Bush, the spineless Supreme Court, etc. Don't blame The Greens. It's a bit absurd, really, considering.
We don't have to talk about this anymore. Unless you want to, but keep it civil, OK?
Bermanator (who campaigned for Nader and is far from ignorant)
Joseph, Joseph, Joseph... First of all, when did you _ever_ get the notion that Gore wouldn't have thrown the environment over to the oil companies? The man's family has substantial holdings in Occidental Petroleum, and you may want to check his record in preserving the wilderness of Appalachia. He's far from being Mr. Green.
As for Nader "lying low," let's take a look at Gore's activities since the election. All I can recall is that he a) pledged to "stay and fight" until the election was resolved, b) taught a bullshit course at NYU, and c) recently announced that he stood behind President Bush's actions re the WTC attack. I can understand the need to crawl into a hole and lick one's wounds after a trauma as bad as last November's... but it's not something I'd want in a President.
And if you think that Nader threw the election to Bush, then it logically follows that you believe that Bush has been fairly and decisively elected.
Xanadu,
On the 16th of any month? Does that mean it 'WILL' or 'MIGHT'?
I've never dealt with a virus before; until now I ALWAYS deleted e-mail I couldn't recognize. I backed up my files just in case. At worst what can I expect? Will it wipe out my files? Or will I most likely have to reinstall my drivers for Windows? I can't believe I was so lame.
I hope this won't be a pain-in-the-ass.
Incidentally, to the extent you like talking about it, what was your script? Is someone working with it or did it land on a studio shelf somewhere?
Brian, Joseph~ RE: Nader/Gore It's over and done with. Get on with your respective lives. Live and let live. Live and learn. Spider Jerusalem is the messiah! Timecube and furry bananas for all!
L.
Got the Lisa Cunningham e-mail too. I know for a fact my address was taken from this bulletin board; I haven't used this particular address for anything else in a loooong time, and not ever with my real name before. Only this BB has ever gotten my real name in connection with this account, and this sucker was addressed to "P.A. Berman." Cute. It's crap like this and other past weirdo web experiences that led to hiding my name in the first place. Sigh.
If you get the SirCam worm, the removal patch & instructions are at:
http://www.symantec.com/avcenter/venc/data/w32.sircam.worm@mm.html
As Rick said, use virus software and don't open any attachments before scanning. In fact, it's a good idea not to open any attachments from people you don't know. I realize I'm preaching to the choir here.
Annnyway, it seems as if our safe enclave has has become the target of some malicious prankster. Several suspicious e-mail incidents have been happening lately, it seems... if a coincidence is just a coincidence, then why does it feel so contrived? (in the immortal words of Dana Scully)
OK. I'm paranoid. I can live with that. Time to go to bed.
Bermanator
("lcunning" indeed...)
Brian,
You're proud of helping to pave the way for the appointment of anti-environment corporate officers to key United States government posts? For shame. Here, go read some Molly Ivins to see what I voted against, and you voted for (and don't give me that 'Nader could have won' crap): http://web.star-telegram.com/content/fortworth/2001/10/29/columnist/molly_ivins.htm
Joseph
P.S. Sorry, but you pissed me off with such an ignorant statement. Note how Nader has barely had the guts to pop his head above ground after he helped hand the country to oil companies.
Re: The Cube, and "Harlan Ellison" having thirteen letters:
DILUTE! DILUTE! OK! OK! Teach the moral ABC that unites mankind, lightning-like, six billion-strong and we're All-One! OK! OK!
Re the recently-passed USA Patriot Act: Well, it was a good Constitution while it lasted, wasn't it? (See http://www.thenation.com/thebeat/ for further information.)
I'd like to urge people to send letters of support to Russ Feingold, of Wisconsin, for having the courage and integrity to cast the _one dissenting vote_ in the Senate against this horror of a law.
And just to carp on something that's hurt my personal life since last November... I do NOT want to hear any nonsensical, fantastic CRAP about how it wouldn't have happened if Gore had won. Maybe Ashcroft wouldn't have been around to propose it... but someone else would have. And would the Democrats have voted or it then? Well, since they voted for it _now_, overwhelmingly, we can be safe in assuming that they would have otherwise. Would Gore have vetoed it? I doubt it.
I think I mentioned the personal-life stuff; I lost a couple of close friendships last year because I had the temerity to vote for Nader. I am prouder than ever of that vote.
Re: the Lisa Cunningham email.
I got the sucker too, but deleted it without opening the attachment. The text saying that this file was being sent to ask advice matches the Norton Anti-Virus Center's description of the message that carries the SirCam worm. Whether it's SirCam or a new variant of Nimda, it's a royal pain in the posterior to get rid of if it gets into a network.
--TR
Followup - turns out it will do damage on th 16th of any month, not just October...
EVERYBODY - The emails you have received from Lisa Cunnigham are indeed virus laden - the virus is called SIRCAM, it is a particularly tricky beast - since it uses its own mail protocol to email future intended victims, rather than going through regular email programs - once a computer is infected it scans all files on a hard drive to find addresses - this includes cached browser files. Most likely, Lisa is a lurker here.
The following address will give you further information:
http://www.cbc.ca/news/indepth/background/sircam_worm.html
Mac users have nothing to fear, this is a Windows specific worm - but Window users have something like a 10 percent chance of irrevocable damage. Please use current, updated commercial antiviral software as soon as possible.
(This worm broke during the whole Code Red thing (thus it was not covered very well), and since I have a published screenplay on the web, with my email address in it - I've gotten some thirty or forty of these messages from people around the world.)
'Time' has four letters. 'Cube' has four letters. 'Rick' has four letters. 'Lisa' has four letters. This explains 4-way majesty affixation.
But then again, a cube has six sides. And we all know 'Harlan' is six letters. Hmmm... If you add up Harlan(6) & Ellison(7), you get thirteen letters. Hmmm.... That could explain the lunar perfection of the Ellison-cube.
Signed,
32/23
On our strange e-mails: To posit a malicious intent specifically towards this site and its visitors, I'd have to see evidence like text in the subject or body involving Harlan or the site that might fool people into clicking on it. Instead, it's the same text as any of the other latest Namda virii. The most likely scenario is the e-mails were the result of a spiderbot scanning websites for e-mail addresses, or an automated program working off a list built by such a bot. Occam's Razor and all that.
So who do I blame? I blame timecube, and your imperfect understanding of its 4-way majesty.
And while I'm here, I should mention that HBO (the channel that has the 2 best shows on television right now) presented an absolutely stunning treatment of the discovery of the first concentration camps in the BAND OF BROTHERS episode 9, titled "Why We Fight." Those of you who have the channel, or know someone who has, need to check your schedules and make sure you see it. The entire miniseries has been of an incredible quality, both in the production values and in their treatment of wartime subjects without being overwrought or indulging in stereotype.
Friends,
I just got the Lisa Cunningham e-mail, too. While I'm all over the net, the coincidence is such that I strongly suspect addresses from this area are being targeted. Don't open those emails.
David, I hadn't heard that bit about the rose petal and the Grand Canyon. Very apropos. I've written just about everything over the years, and poetry is the only thing I've _never_ been paid for. Unless you count contributor copies--and I don't.
--Alex
Brian,
I have a feeling (Lynn, I believe also alluded to it) that a disgruntled visitor to Webderland may be behind it. Then again, maybe it's just a ko-inky-dink.
-Andrew
Like a brain-dead nimrod I got suckered by that Lisa Cunningham 'Certificate' e-mail because I've been doing so much correspondence lately. I downloaded the attachment and pages of codified data flipped open. As the resident guinea pig I can report nothing has happened to my files thus far.
I'm going to be a helluva lot more alert from now on. Anyone who finds out about this keep us posted. Then we can light up the torches. Good old-fashioned, savage mob rule is the only solution
That's strange. I got the Lisa Cunningham message as well. (I replied to it, warning this person that someone might be using her address to send viruses.)
Think someone's scanning this page for addresses?
Lynn,
I will definitely be attending on the 15th. Tickets have been purchased (left orchestra row A seats 1 and 2). You can get a seating layout by going to:
http://www.artcenter.org/
You can also order tickets online, just be sure to follow the link to Ticketmaster.
BTW, I received not one, not two, but three of the "Lisa Cunningham" messages. The first ended in a .pif the other two were batch file extensions. This is the first time I've ever received anything like this. Go figure.
-Andrew
Pt. the Second: Chuck, if you want to pursue tracking down the email, view the header and send the entire email (adv. message header and all) to abuse@whatever-domain-the-email-originated-from.com. Identifying the actual IP address that the email originated from may be a bit tricky and generally spammers aren't that stupid to use their actual email return addy anyway. It can be done, tho' and most ISP's frown on their accounts sending unsolicited email.
Good Luck,
L.
Chuck~ What you got was another go-round of the new, IMPROVED Nimda virus. For more info, go to www.mcafee.com or www.norton.com and search on NIMDA. The thing I find interesting is that the email I reference on this site also received two emails from one "Lisa Cunningham" with a .bat file attached. You should know to always delete file attachments from an unknown source. Always. No exceptions. And you should also invest in good virus protection software.
I wonder whose skimmed the board for email addys to send virus packages to. Hmmmm... What an od___ thing to do...
L.
Just a quick note to all. I received an e-mail from someone going by the name of Lisa Cunningham. Actually, multiple e-mails. The subject line was Certificates, so I figured this was spam that I'd read and toss into the virtual trash can. Inside was a note saying the person needed advice on the attached item. The Anti-Viral service on my e-mail spotted a virus in the attachment. This person or persons used my e-mail address. Just watch out for this, I have no idea what the virus is, or what it does. By the way, is there anyone official I could notify?
Chuck
P.S.: Go, Odyssey!
I guess this, "Bishop" is kind of the dark side of the internet come to life. Some folks have a warped sense of priorities in life to be sure.
According to Chomsky, the war is going to subject 3 to 4 million afghan starvation deaths in the coming harsh winter. The food drop was merely a propaganda tool, and it looks like Bin Laden is in never never land, for all we know. So much for any kind of logic in this quagmire.
Rob: re the Tick,
Before yesterday I would have been in complete and absolute agreement with you; nothing could be better than the animated Tick show.
But this is FUNNY, man, FUNNY! It'll make milk come out of your nose.
Even if you're not drinking milk. Check it out when it airs.
Spooooooooon!
Lynn what is Escondido??
HEAR HEAR Bermanator
me thinks hydrogen combined with fuel cell technology is the wave of the future! Ford, Shell, and others are on the wagon.
http://www.clean-air.org/
They are building hydrogen stations in Europe already and
Near LA there is a bus company that has converted to hydrogen. They built their own hydrogen station and now pay no one for fuel! Here's another good link.
http://www.ch2bc.org/bulletin/bulletin20001112.htm
If you ever wonder what the war is about, check out Bush's history. He owned Harken Energy Corp(oil) and ran it into the ground. Ripped off all his investors but came out with money in his own pocket(so he probably owes some of those investors a few favors). Who is profitting from this war is the question to be asked because someone sure as hell is. They wouldn't use a million $$$ bomb on a pile of rocks for nothing.
Hey Rick, does that academic anti establishment cube world lovers link mean you didn't get through the firewall, therefore you have no idea who I am, as if it mattered? ;) Don't worry I won't start impersonating you again. Well maybe. hahahaha. I always thought the world was round not a cube, which would mean it would have zillions of simeultaneous days depending on where you were standing. (If they hadn't established time zones)
Fillenia "Rick" Alperton, misconductor
Lynn,
From the California Center for the Arts website:
"The first exhibition of its kind in an American art museum presents more than 100 spectacular examples of pop culture's most interesting representations of outer space - space toys! From Buck Rogers to the "Gang of Five" robots, this exhibit includes a rare collection of space helmets, ray guns, robots, comic book and other artifacts that reflect America's early attraction to the world beyond."
As if you didn't have enough reason to go already.;)
-Andrew
Alex Krislov mentioned the days before he knew that poetry doesn't sell. I hope you're familiar with the line from Don Marquis, Alex: Publishing a book of poetry in America is like dropping a rose petal off the rim of the Grand Canyon and listening for the echo.
Jim Davis wondered whether Regis might ask a leering question about the "research" for my book. He wouldn't approach it that way, but I'll be very curious to see whether he gives me some kind of opening to mention the project.
Jim also bit on my passing remark about regularly attending synogogue but not being a Jew. It's real simple: my wife became a Jew four years ago ("Why would anybody wanna do that?" -- Harlan Ellison) and I tag along with her to keep up with what's she's doing. I enjoy the rabbis and the other interesting folks in the congregation.
Call me a "non-practicing atheist." I like to tell people I grew up in the Unitarian Church but I left because they were too organized for my taste.
Lynn,
I'll know better in a couple of hours. I don't see that it should be much of a problem, but, the way things have gone lately I can never tell.;)
-Andrew
Oops.
L.
Andrew~
And I Quote (my HERC flyer): "I Bore King Kong's Illegitimate Baby And Other Troublesome Stories From Harlan Ellison"
An Evening With Harlan Ellison
At: The California Center For The Arts
340 N. Escondido Blvd, Escondido, CA 92025
Concert Hall
Thursday, 15 November 2001
Performance @ 7pm (Doors open 6:30)
The Event Is Open To The Public
Call 1-800-988-4253 For Tickets, $15/each
Reserved Seating Only
Are you going? Trying to get a contingent of Angelino's (I hate to drive by myself) together to go. I'd have to take off work early to miss the traffic, but the day draws nigh when I must decide.
L.
Andrew~
And I Quote (my HERC flyer): "I Bore King Kong's Illegitimate Baby And Other Troublesome Stories From Harlan Ellison"
An Evening With Harlan Ellison
At: The California Center For The Arts
340 N. Escondido Blvd, Escondido, CA 92025
Concert Hall
Thursday, 15 November 2001
Performance @ 7pm (Doors open 6:30)
The Event Is Open To The Public
Call 1-800-988-4253 For Tickets, $15/each
Reserved Seating Only
Are you going? Trying to get a contingent of Angelino's (I hate to drive by myself) together to go. I'd have to take off work early to miss the traffic, but the day draws nigh when I must decide.
L.
Mark: "Hey PA Berman: You do realize there's a world of difference between Germany who is trying to apprehend the terrorist cells in its bosom, and Afghanistan who is shielding them by deliberate policy...?... of course you know."
Yeah, I know, but not sure why you bring up Germany. I think the US has taken a rather hypocritical stance on terrorism, that's all I was saying. If we expect the world to come into line against terrorism, we should lead by example. I wasn't criticizing anything you wrote in your post, just expounded on an interesting point you made.
As for letting them keep their frigging oil... Amen. I totally agree. I think the only way to solve the problems in the Middle East on a long-term, lasting level is to end our dependence on foreign oil forever. That means converting the transportation and utility industries to cleaner, more eco-friendly resources that we can generate ourselves. Until we do, we will always be in conflict with and subject to those who possess the fuel.
Freedom from oil can be achieved, and that would be the best revenge. Living well always is.
Bermanator
Lynn,
Escondido is only a skip and a jump for me. What's up?
-Andrew
Andrew-
You gonna be in Escondido on the 15th?
L.
PS. I'm okay with 32. In Discordian years, I'm the mirror image of 23. Hail Eris!
Mark,
I'm still amazed that NASA has managed to accommplish any of these space borne endeavors. Not only with the Martian spacecraft, but the deep space missions like; Pioneer (No. 10 is still going strong, yahoo!), Voyager, Gallileo and soon (hopefully) Cassini. With all the things that can (and often, do) go wrong, NASA still manages to pull rabbits from hats. I must admit though, I'm still looking forward to the next group of lander/rover's that are planned for Mars over the next couple of years.
-Andrew
I just got back a little while ago from my weekend at Madcom in Madison. What a terrific time,Harlan was awesome as usual and the 3 high verbals were hilarious on their panel. Harlan did a reading/talk late Friday night as a fundraiser that was amazing. It lasted nearly 2 and a half hours ended about 1:30 AM. He read his new story written around the cover for the next Dream Corridor, the one with Ronald Coleman climbing high in the mountains only to spy the Golden Arches ahead of him in the mist, where the Cleveland Indians of Lou Boudreau just happen to be working.Amazing story, very funny.The story Harlan is working on with Neil Gaiman is coming along nicely. The pages done so far were being posted on a large board by where they were working.I preordered the chapbook of it and also a copy of the upcoming illustated bibliography coming out about February.If you have never seen Harlan do a readingor a talk, run do not walk at your earliest opportunity.This was a 5 hour drive for me, I have driven as far as Atlanta to see Harlan, and would do it again in a heartbeat.
Andrew, fitting punishment for Bin Laden if caught and tried. Life in prison with no parole. Of course, being that we must not stomp on this rights, we will have to allow him to speak to his 'friends' and 'family' and we must allow his, at least, annual interview with 60 Minutes and other news media to get his point out to his brethren (after all, Chuckie Manson gets this). And, of course, let's make sure he is in a comfortable, secluded area to keep him away from all other prisoners.
Yeah, that'll teach him to come out of his....um.....cave.
-TODD (in a very sarcastic mood)
David,
Honest question, no acrimony intended...
What would you consider to be a fitting punishment for Bin Laden and Co.(should they be captured, tried and convicted)?
Just Curious,
Andrew
A tug on Rick Wyatt's sleeve: While I've got you cornered in the hallway here man, I just need to thank you for this great party. A wonderfully thoughtful group of folks you've attracted. Love the things hanging from the lights -- spooky. And your words on Harlan The Man are too right-on to need elaboration by me. My reasons tumble over each other when I try to elucidate the good Harlan has done for my view of the world, and of people. Your panegyric was just and overdue.
The Mars Odyssey craft is in orbit!!! Blessed be those who can play in such distant sandboxes and take us along vicariously for the thrill and the escape. The craft is now in an elliptical orbit, which it will circularize by "aerobraking." This is the hair-raising maneuver of subjecting its fragile, deep-space design to the hypersonic touches of Mars' upper atmosphere, with its expansive wing of solar cells behaving like the feathers on a badminton birdie. They'll heat up to 350 degrees Fahrenheit or so.
Does anyone else notice how hare-brained seem the feats of technical science? Consider jet planes: Here we sit, some two-hundred of us, plus enough baggage each that we need wheels to move most of it, a couple of well-stocked kitchens and a few bathrooms. See those things out on the wings that look like oversized hair dryers? Well, they're going to blow some hot air backwards, see, and that'll push us forwards; in fact we'll roll forward so fast, that this whole, heavy, sag-wheeled contraption will lift clean off the ground like a bird. That's right: flying -- all the way across the ocean. No, really. They're going to blow REALLY, REALLY HARD, see, and ... the road? Oh it doesn't go anywhere; it ends in a few thousand feet. I think there's a river or woods or something ... Wait -- where are you going? Siddown!
Sending that little spaceship anywhere near an atmosphere seems to my layness as smart as using $500 Italian loafers as motorcycle brakes. But what do I know? Huzzah! There's a glitch, though: A radiation measuring instrument doesn't want to boot up. But they're going to upload the latest version of Quicktme Pro as well as Myst and Tomb Raider and that should do it.
Hey PA Berman: You do realize there's a world of difference between Germany who is trying to apprehend the terrorist cells in its bosom, and Afghanistan who is shielding them by deliberate policy...?... of course you know. I agree that having trained these people is our pregnant guilt, and is part of the appeasement I lamented in my post; appeasement of the despots our government has assumed these people deserve: The Shah, the Saudi monarchs, the Ayatollahs. It occurs to me that as Communism was the hangover of European monarchy, Islamic fundamentalism is the product of these powers we have regrettably danced with. I wish we had just told them all to keep their friggin oil, we'll just take back the equipment.
No oil powers the Odyssey ship, Yay!
Mark Z
On an entirely different note, I LOVED Edward Champion's story about "runcibility reports."
I don't remember pulling anything that drastic in the roughly two years I've put in as a temp in various locales, but I always insist on having fun on the job, whether that involves wearing one of my dozen Tasmanian Devil neckties (the one with the tiny Napoleon Bonapartes with their right hand jammed in their fly is for really special occasions) or self-mockingly acting dumber than I am for a joke.
Anytime my direct supervisor forgets something or makes some other harmless error, I like to tell him, "I'll have to put another written reprimand in your personnel file."
Wow, a lot of posts and topics have piled up in the past week! Rather than load all of you down with one stupendous post to catch up, I'll try to cover some of the issues in a series of moderately-sized posts over the next day or so.
The biggest one first. Xanadu asked, politely and quite civilly, "I concur with you re: Heather, but, like Lynn - I'd really love to see what you think the proper course out of this Afghanistan/bin Laden mess is." Nice, clean request for input; no insults, no insinuations. That's the way I like it, the way discussion needs to take place, especially in this awful time.
Up at the top, I'd like to remind myself as well as all of you that we are operating on insufficient information. We don't KNOW what's going on, we don't KNOW who all the players are, and therefore we don't KNOW what to do. Opinions and speculation are what we are dealing with here, so keep that in mind before you take your own position too seriously or attack someone else's. The problem is, the U.S. GOVERNMENT is also in the dark about a lot of this, but won't admit it ... and that's always a prescription for disaster.
I liked a lot of Alex Jay Berman's fiery post, to wit: war is a last resort, this bombing is not working (which result I expected long before it began), war in Afghanistan does NOT equal a war on terrorism, the food drops are ineffective and mostly just for show.... I wouldn't go so far as to say Homeland Defense equals Gestapo, but it does amuse me (in a rueful way) that last week's anti-terrorism bill sailed through Congress with provisions that were bitterly fought over when they were known as the Communications Decency Act several years ago. Apparently, you can get people to do anything these days with little question if you say "terrorism," the way you could get them to respond to the word "Communist" fifty years ago.
Alex also noted that the U.S. did not capitalize on the massive world sympathy and support it had just after Sept. 11, and that whatever support it did have from many corners is rapidly disappearing the longer the bombing goes on. This is a large part of the tactical error I was warning about weeks ago.
So, what should we have done? I'm all for covert operations to locate and capture bin Laden or anyone else we could identify as potentially responsible for terrorist acts. Capture them and bring 'em back alive for trial before a world court. I am totally AGAINST political assassination, however, so I was surprised to see that turn up on Alex's approval list.
Political assassination of national leaders we don't like is as much as to say "our terrorism is righteous, your terrorism is not." We can never win at that game, because our country's borders are more permeable, they're open to the extent our democratic principles call for, and the borders of countries we don't like are not as easily penetrated. If we get into the political assassination game, there can only be more killings on our soil with the perpetrators thinking themselves perfectly justified (and onlookers persuaded as well) by tit-for-tat reasoning.
War with Afghanistan, no matter how despicable the Taliban may be, was a mistake. A huge percentage of the populace did not support the Taliban -- they didn't get a chance to decide, and many probably didn't care, as long as they were left alone -- and the result has only been to make many of our Western allies nervous as well as risk alienating Muslim and Arab allies further.
Here's my wild suggestion:
1. We should have pursued covert operations to identify and capture terrorist leaders
2. We should have offered huge rewards to any countries or individuals that helped us identify and bring them in -- which would have shown we are still focused on individual miscreants, not whole nations of whom we happen to disapprove, or Islam; this would have been far cheaper than all the personnel and military machinery now in play
3. We should have blanketed the Afghani hinterlands with food and medical supplies, not token drops -- maybe even fed in more goods through international aid organizations, even sent military troops to remove land mines and distribute goodies, with the instruction to fire only in defense of distributions
4. We should have blanketed the international air waves with coverage relating only to the attacks on the World Trade Center, the Pentagon, and the flight that crashed in Pennsylvania -- data from recorders, funerals, testimony of surviving family members, etc. -- to KEEP the world's attention focused on the terrible wrong done to our country and citizens of other nations, including Jews, Muslims, Indonesians, etc. ... because people's memories are short, including ours, and bombing Afghanistan diverts attention away from the original dastardly event, so that now Muslims and Arabs are mainly seeing other Muslims suffering and dying, and they are going to be more quick to sympathize with that against the "bully" United States, than to remember the unprecedented cruelty that led to this "aggression."
That's enough for now.
All Wisest Humans thanking Rick
For show 4-corner majesty of Timecube
(It is "True"!)
I will give $1,000
(maybe $5,000; cannot tell)
To any can disprove existence of Rick
Must now format screed in many colors and fonts
Hello, everybody... I'm back.
(I can just *imagine* the mighty cheers of joy going on right now.)
I'm not even going to try to jump into the Ellison/political debates (and I'm definitely not going to bite troll bait, either), so I'll just say:
Jim: We cool.
Heather: I doubt if you're here to read this, but, I sent you an e-mail from my other mail account. Keep an eye out for it. You OK?
(And I am NOT pleased by people who feel the need to attack people on a personal level, when said people are not here to defend themselves. It's fine to attack someone's attitudes or ideas, but attacking someone personally is grade school bullshit. If you must attack someone, attack me. I'm an easy target, and I'm here to RESPOND. Otherwise, it's like talking behind someone's back.)
As for everything else: how about this for news? NASA got the Odyssey spacecraft into an orbit around Mars, after two failures. A spacecraft, orbiting Mars... I am in awe. That, for me, was the important news this week.
Or, as my inner four-year-old put it:
"Boss!"
So right.
Scott Miller, takes a licking and keeps on ticking
Michael,
Re: The Tick.
I look forward to the new live-action version. BUT...well, let me think of how to put this; I must choose my words carefully: NOTHING is as good as the animated version. NOTHING, I say.
CORRECTIONS TO THE POST BELOW:
line 3: "introduced to him" should read "introduced to his work"
line 5: excise the word "prove"
line 8: replace "like" with "of"
line 10: to avoid the echo, replace "the holocaust"with the pronoun "it"
-aw
A slight diversion from the incessant webderland natterings on masked so-and-sos and whether Heather was a nuisance: Everyone on the board, HE included, should read whatever they can find by the German author W.G. Sebald. I was first introduced to him a year ago when a professor suggested I read THE EMIGRANTS. I've been meaning to mention Sebald and his four novels on the board for some time but it took today's cover story in the books section of the Sunday NY Times prove to give me the impetus to actually write the post. Check out www.nytimes.com/books & search for Sebald -- there are free, archived reviews of Sebald's novels (but be sure to search within the books page and not the entire NY Times site). The reviews will explain exactly why Sebald is worth your time and I wish to offer little as postscript save the assurance that this is not the holocaust-lit like Weisel, Epstein, etc. For example, the impact of the holocaust in THE EMIGRANTS is felt because of Sebald's avoidance of references to the holocaust (er, I suppose).
That's all. Commence nit-picking,
AW
Whew! Half the dental nightmare is over -- a two-week reprieve from needles and Novocaine...
Thank goodness for my friend the TV Queen! Tonight she brought over the press kit for the upcoming live-action series The Tick, including the first three episodes. It is DAMN funny, people, better by far than the cartoon ever was! Patrick Warburton as the big blue hero seems able to spout the funniest superhero gibberish with an absolutely straight face. My pal the Queen sez it's easily the funniest series of the year. Do not miss it! Yuks galore...and just when I needed some!
Fillenia - check out timecube.com. You obviously do not understand timecube.
WOW!!
I never knew about Unit 731 but I looked it up online and there's even more horrors than bubonic plague!!!
http://www.aiipowmia.com/731/vivisection.html
This site talks some about the human radiation experiments-- They had soldiers march into ground zero minutes after the Nevada test site bombs went off and salute!! Y
There's also some good mind control Manchurian Candidate stuff one here. http://www.raven1.net/ravindex.htm#GLOSSAR
I usually only feel pure terror in dreams and when suprised though fear pervades my everyday life. I ALWAYS have nightmares if I eat before I go to sleep. Usually if I ask a person who's had a nightmare if they ate right before bed, they say yes. Imagine how many people are having nightmares at this very moment!!! millions!
damn rick!!! you take things so seriously you poor thing, you should go read Stanislav Lems story about the Washing Machine evolution, that is FUNNY and will lighten you up immediatelly. caught for misconduct!!! How awful!!! I guess you sure told me eh?
So have you actually gotten through the firewall and figured out who I am or did you just look at the stats??
Sorry, mistake on the masquerade - cut and paste error. It's been corrected.
I should mention that I do not complain about the anonymity here, nor do I ever demand people give their real names or e-mail addresses. Many treasure the ability to post anonymously, and I believe it aids frank discussion.
What I do take seriously is any posting, even in jest, under my name using my e-mail address. Please desist, or I'll have no choice but to block the IPs from the Academy of Art in San Francisco and notify their technical contact Ivan Noches of the misconduct. Thanks!
Hey Rick you edittor you,
I'm not The "real" Masked Bishop masquerading as you though previously I did masquerade as the Masked Bishop for the purpose of making fun of his pants pooping problem and smell :)
You guys should make up and tongue kiss.
-Rick Wyatt 2
This board is great most of the time
Harlan's posts -word usage and phrases are nile jewels and I value EVERYBODies book recommendations. I'm relativelly new to Ellison, have only read a few short stories, but the few I've read have been memorable time well spent. Like that one about the jewish caterpillar? That was hillarious!!!!
Humour about futility, lazy work ethic is ALWAYS much appreciated.
Some of you guys are acusatory without first questioning yourself. "HAve I done the same thing I am accusing someone else of doing" but who cares, these bulliton board things are plagued with flame war ten car pileups, everybody uses a scapegoat to let out the "road rage"
I don't agree that the masked bishop should use his real name. For what purpose, you probably don't know him anyways.
You guys need to get over the anonymity fear. Its the best part about being online. No one can track you, unless they are hackexperts. In anonymity, THere is no involvement in fame or racking up points for your ego as you wax poetic. Its purely for enjoyment or social commentary or critisizm.
Rick, If everybody gets so up in arms about about signing on without a "real" name perhaps you should have authentication and a login. Until then, let us have fun making up names. Quit complaining and calling us woosies. I like The Masked Bishop, reminds me of the Avengers episode "The Joker". Don't you think The MAsked Bishop's house is like that except with giant chess peices everywhere instead of cards. He makes a good villan.
yours truly,
Rick Wyatt 2
FEAR:
Lynn, I guess I'm fortunate to have avoided any prolonged fear, except perhaps a bout of bullying I endured in jr. high. I did have one person tell me "I'm you worst nightmare" to which I replied, "My worst nightmare involves an amphibious great white shark. Top that." Fortunately, he didn't try. My nightmares did provide some moments of terror, but in the end I knew I would wake up. For historical examples, I might dredge up Japan's Unit 731, their germ warfare horror show which used human guinea pigs. Whole villages were exposed to bubonic plague, then 731 agents and soldiers in isolation suits came into the village, dragged people out into the fields and dissected them alive. Every bit as chilling was the way the USA let the head of 731 get away with his crimes, so our germ warfare ghouls could get his data.
Science ED:
I'm sorry, but I can't recall who brought this up, I was away for several days. There's been so much posted I lost you. My high school biology class was well taught by Mr. Starbuck, who was also the track coach. He not only managed to structure the class in such a way as to let us experience the joy of discovery, but also made sure that all boats were lifted. He insisted that the smart kids in the class help the class rumdums learn their stuff. The word rumdums was his. He was the track coach, so subltlety was not his long suit. My rumdum was a big gorilla by the name of Dave Gillam. He was the only person I ever hauled off and punched. I did manage to get him over the top gradewise, but I didn't know what his final grade was until years later when I had a conversation with Mr. Starbuck, and found out Gillam got a D-minus. A FUCKING D! With all the help I gave big happy babboon, he should have gotten a C.
By the way, Mr. Starbuck was once interruped in class by a bible-thumping student who didn't even read the damn bible. Something about how we shouldn't worry about the world's expanding population, because the bible said the world was going to be destroyed by monsters. He firmly but gently put her in her place -- in his crew-cut track coach sort of way. I think he did all right.
Chuck
TMB: Ah, so THIS is the mythology you're trying to perpetuate: You're ignored and/or rebuked on this board because you're a modern Zen Archer shooting arrows of splendent Truth into the very marrow of our blindly-adulatory bones. Bullshit. You're a troll, you're not interested in serious debate and discussion, and everyone knows it. And you WILL come back for yet another penultimate pot-shot because, well, that's what you do. My prediction: You'll post another name, of course, and you'll deny any relationship to "The Masked Bishop," just like you now deny that you're really Od---. Knock yourself out. Unlike you, I CAN keep a promise: I won't devote another byte of disc-space to you or your tiresome displays of petulance. London, Goodbye, Ta-Ta!
(Extends hands through the electronic ether to grab Brian and shake him 'till his fillings rattle) BRIAN, YOU'RE NOT SUPPOSED TO BLURT OUT THAT HENDRIE DOES ALL THE VOICES ON HIS SHOW!!!!! Sheesh...
(I DID figure you for a Hendrie fan. I think his show is one of the funniest things on the planet, myself. I've known MANY Bobbie Dooleys in my time, so his stuff hits very close to home...)
Jim
"Every point scored in a sport is a dead Afghan."--The Phil Hendrie Show.
Along the lines of Nasby, I'd like to pass along my admiration for radio personality Phil Hendrie, who operates out of Los Angeles. His routine is to conduct an interview with someone who, usually, is so wrapped up in his or her own world that they have become completely moral-blind. And then he lets the callers have a go at his guest.
For example, last week, Hendrie interviewed a lady journalist who was so outraged that she didn't get a front-row seat at the Madison Square Garden concert that she couldn't bring herself to write a favorable review of the show. This person went on about how no one had the courage to tell the firemen to sit maybe twenty or thirty rows back. "These people are heroes," she said, "so they're used to fires and danger and buildings falling on them. They're _used_ to sitting farther back."
One of the callers was a fireman in Texas who lit into this journalist as much as he could. Suddenly the journalist asserted that she "knew all about firefighting" because she'd interviewed Ron Howard and had ridden the "Backdraft" ride at Universal Studios, and she begins baiting the fireman with questions like, "Okay, if you're a real fireman, answer me this. What do you use to put out fires?"
Now, here's the fun part. The interviewees are actually Hendrie doing another voice. He is extremely accomplished at sounding like two different people, and he has a real knack for developing characters who are unspeakably certain and obnoxious. Maybe it's a cheap way of stirring up his listeners into phoning in to yell at his characters, but the results are _hilarious_.
Better Translation: I couldn't go away without rebutting what was an impassioned, well-written slam by Mr. Wyatt. Also, the balls reference was not to comment on anyone's sexual preferences, but to point out the close relationship between fanatacism and sexual competitiveness. (I'm sure I'm not the only one who has considered that a large part of the problem of Islamic fundamentalism is sexual frustration. Maybe I've read too much Reich.)
Harlan is a great writer, and will always be. But he made the decision long ago to put himself into the ring, and become a target for "shots across the bow" at his sheer ego and literary pugilism. You think I'm an asshole, go read the stuff written by people who actually don't like the man or his work.
Selah, and peace be with you all. And maybe some thicker skins...
The Masked Bishop
Well, the Merkined Bishop fufilled my first expectation: he couldn't just _leave_. He had to stick around and offer some more parting shots. This is one of those indicators that marks the True Iconoclast from the infantile poser. In their insecurity, the posers keep returning, hoping beyond hope to have an effect.
A real iconoclast doesn't even _lurk_. He moves on, without even contempt burdening his brain.
P.A., Petroleum V. Nasby was a newspaper humorist in the Archie Bunker tradition (or perhaps Bunker is in the Nasby tradition). He made racist, unsupportable comments in such a way that the reader might laugh at even while disagreeing. He was bellicose, pro-slavery, pro-secession--all the things his creator, David Locke, was not. For a nice overview, check out this URL http://www.boondocksnet.com/twaintexts/pattee02_e.html
Rick, your comment about being declared gay reminds me of a funny event at my daughter's Bat Mitzvah last weekend. My relatives were there in force, my wife's much less so (she's from New York, and most of them didn't want to travel) One of our few single women friends came up to me and said, "So, where are all the single men?"
I thought a minute and pointed to a cousin of mine. "There he is. He's a lawyer and a jazz musician. But we've always suspected he's gay. Let us know what you find out."
--Alex
Brian & Alex: Please let me about Petroleum V. Nasby so I don't have to be one of those ignorant English teachers any longer.
Xanadu: *you* didn't annoy me. The flagrantly inaccurate use of the word "civil" annoyed me. Love the sinner, hate the sin. I am an English teacher, after all. I also thought that you were defending the indefensible and wanted to let you know that without being too mean to you, so as to avoid further flaming.
Rick: good job, man. Nice imagery.
Now let's all go back to our regular business on here and ignore whatever parting shots may be fired, impotently, over our starboard bow.
Bermanator
(going out to sell flowers in the airport in the name of Ellisonism... sorry, couldn't resist firing my own parting shot)
The Masked One - as the only person on this board who even attempted to defend your right to your position (an attempt, unfortunately, I increasingly regret) I really have to ask you this - if you're willing to explicate at all.
What, in any diety's name, did you expect to get from a group of self-selected fans of Ellison when you came in full of brimstone and bile? (Whether you flamed Harlan or Peter is largely irrelevant, since the flame was sent to this board. - And yes, P A Berman, I have since revised my definition of civil - apologies for annoying you)
Even if we assume your arguments were valid, (this does not imply actual agreement), why vent on this board? - If Harlan does nothing for you, if he really annoys you - stop going to events where he's participating.
It's really that simple. You can read the new stuff as it comes out, however (in)frequent that may be - pick up those things that you missed the first time around when he reprints them and just never go see him in person - you get the best of both worlds.
There's no need to come and shake the trees of those who still buy into the "schtick". Leave us to our illusions and I'm certain those here will leave you to yours. You can remain safely smug and superior to the whole damn lot of us.
In closing - I am no longer motivated to defend this board or my opinion of Harlan to you. Have a good day and please bugger off.
Translation: I couldn't go away without mentioning that I'm skeptical, and Rick isn't. Also, he is definitely a homosexual.
A postscript (you didn't think I'd leave that quickly, did you?)
>Preach it, Rick. I said, "Ay-mayun."<
Preach it indeed. While Mr. Wyatt claims to not be a fan, his pages-long adoration of Ellison was nothing short of evangelical. As I was reading it (growing increasingly more embarassed for the writer) I was thinking "well, at least this isn't sexual."
Wrong. At the end, in his paragraph long, windy curse of me (which detracted from the moral righteousness of his previous defense of HE), Rick inevitably moved to my genitals as the focus of his rage. It was quite revealing, this sudden focus on my balls as a punishment for the tension my modest comments created on this hallowed ground.
Ellisonism. Or Maybe Harlanism? Whatever you call it, there's definitely more than liking a guy's books going on around here. And the irony of the story is, the very guy you all so cravenly worship wouldn't be caught dead doing the same thing.
Guess there's not so much skeptical inquiry going on around here after all. One man's Jesus is another man's science fiction writer. Let the indoctrination begin! And woe to ye who defile the name of the Holy One (or should I say the Harlan One?)
Preach it, Rick. I said, "Ay-mayun."
J
Lynn- The board room scene was cut by a few seconds, and the death of Murphy was cut down by a few more. It was all restored in the Criterion DVD/Laserdisc of ROBOCOP, which I highly recommend. It has a commentary track from the director, writer and producer that explains the decisions made on the film in great detail.
J
I'll never forget the time in high school English class, when I'd dropped a reference to Nasby in a paper on Mark Twain. I had to explain to the English teacher who he was.
I think that's one of the reasons why I responded to writers like Harlan. I don't want to sound like I'm patting myself on the back here, but I wound up with a really wide range of knowledge about the last hundred and fifty years or so. It'd get very strange: for example, when my social studies class was discussing the then-freshly-organized Moral Majority, I mentioned that back in the Thirties, there was this deranged priest named Charles Coughlin who built a massive media empire spreading fanaticism, anti-Semitism, and hate-- and only the Social Studies teacher knew what I was talking about. We'd do a unit on the mass media, and I'd describe the Orson Welles "War of the Worlds" broadcast. We'd be assigned to read Dickens, and I'd mention how Henry Mayhew had interviewed hundreds of Londoners of the time, and how his work had influenced Dickens and Thackeray (who I hadn't read, actually). Someone'd mention a cartoon, and I'd talk about Winsor McCay and Max Fleischer and Ub Iwerks.
The thing is, it was very, very strange to realize that I might be the only one in a hundred square miles to have this odd assortment of information. After all, a lot of it was devoted to stuff that had occurred before the dawn of history-- which, in 1975, was generally agreed upon to be 1952, with the vague understanding that there had been a really big war before that. So it was sort of like discovering an oasis when I'd run into someone, like Harlan in this case, who seemed to _share_ this bent for weird and innarestin' stuff. It was a nice indication that knowing this crap wasn't a certain indication that my later life would involve mumbling to myself on subway platforms.
Re Shermer. I like writing for his magazine, overall; for the most part, it's good company to be in. And I'm very proud of the stuff I've written for it. But I can't think of anything to write for him that I'm interested in enough to write about.
Brian,
Petroleum Vesuvius Nasby! By the blood of Saint Menses, I thought I was the only American left who knew that name. In the seventies, I actually wrote a poem around that legendary figure (this, of course, was before I recognized a simple truth: you can't make any goddamn money writing poetry). I knew there was something I liked about you, you ol' skeptic, you.
By the way, I saw your name in Shermer's "Why People Believe Weird Things" the other day. Good company to be found in, sir.
--Alex
Normally, I don't reply to trolls like the Masked Bishop. But since I think Alex missed an important point in _his_ reply, I'll plunge a finger into the tarbaby and say:
The Masked Bishop writes:
"You have built up a fan site about a man who has spent his life in iconoclasm, anti-heroification, and unpopular criticism of sacred cows...Yet you yourselves tolerate none of these things."
The simple reply here is that the masked Bishop, whoever he is, really _is_ none of those things. Kid, I've spent a long time in the printed company of world-class iconoclasts as Gore Vidal, Harlan Ellison, Christopher Hitchens, Michael O'Donoghue, Terry Southern, Joseph Heller, George Orwell, Dorothy Parker, Oscar Wilde, Thomas Pynchon, H.L. Mencken, Ambrose Bierce, and even obscure figures as Petroleum V. Nasby. I understand that I won't reach _their_ well-catered plateau, and share a mint julep or whiskey-straight-up, but I can recognize when someone is several miles below and don't know his way up. You're far from being a decent iconoclast.
As far as herofication goes... Most of us understand our own uses for heroes, and have a decent grasp of it. If you were going after a real fraud, like Mother Teresa or Jerry Falwell or John Edward, we couldn't think of you as misguided. But telling yourself that you're brave and decent ecause you've somehow convinced yourself that Harlan's some kind of fraud... well, we look at that, and since we understand the self-delusory process, we know exactly how much importance to see in your words.
And the "unpopular criticism of sacred cows," well, I never thought that Harlan was such a sacred cow in the culture at large. He's always been a cult figure, and an eminently decent one. Like I said, if you actually ran some kind of _risk_, and went after the culture's sacred cows, we could find something to admire. But you haven't.
Come back when you've actually tried to take on a dragon or two.
"You have built up a fan site about a man who has spent his life in iconoclasm, anti-heroification, and unpopular criticism of sacred cows..."
...but not for it's own sake, Bishop. And not in the cows' "living room." If you'd written to CBG with your criticisms, valid or invalid, it would be one thing. You are akin to the guy who shows up at a writer's home and eggs his hand-carved front door. And then runs away, safe in anonymity.
And that's all I've got to say about that.
--Alex
P.S. Rick, sorry for the duplicate posting. I hadn't realized how your editor would respond to the use of carats in the first one, and my quotation was erased.
>
...but not for it's own sake, Bishop. And not in the cows' "living room." If you'd written to CBG with your criticisms, valid or invalid, it would be one thing. You are akin to the guy who shows up at a writer's home and eggs his hand-carved front door. And then runs away, safe in anonymity.
And that's all I've got to say about that.
--Alex
Gentleman:
You have built up a fan site about a man who has spent his life in iconoclasm, anti-heroification, and unpopular criticism of sacred cows.
Yet you yourselves tolerate none of these things. Rick, with "non-fans" like yourself, who needs enemies? Harlan has been writing about people like you for years. Remember when he published his piece in TV Guide about Gene Roddenberry, and the next day his phone machine was filled with voices of anger, decrying his very existence...why, I believe one of them even started with "how dare you..."
Just like you to me, buddy. Well, I'm outta here. I got the message. Too bad none of you have.
TMB
A lot of scattershot points here, as I've been busy the while:
Though there are any number of fine and reasonable rebuttals to the unbacked-by-any-argument "points" the "Bishop" has posted, but I simply shan't take the time to bother. I haven't a care to play with children who shit in the sandbox.
On another issue, I was very slightly annoyed by Heather's logorrhea. So I didn't read her posts. That was a good enough solution for me.
(My girlfriend, however, delighted in reading what she wrote, though not for the most kindest reasons)
Okay. "War is Hell." No; no, it's not. War is war, and while the two share some similarities, they are not the same. One is conflict ordered by man while the other is punishment ordered by god (if in such you believe). I cannot personally believe in a divinely-constructed Hell, and I cannot believe in war as a quick political fix.
Further: "... the only solutions have been offered by the hawks."
War is not a solution; it is a last resort. Had I my way, I would have had Bush rescind Ford's executive order that we cannot assassinate for political gain--we still do, anyway, and I despise a hypocrisy of this sort. What I would prefer would be a process set up for this, with any assassination order needing to be vetted by a evenly bipartisan committee which would meet in closed but not secret session.
If we have a SEAL Team Six, I see no reason not to use them in an "drop in, shoot-n-loot and apprehend the perpetrators" sort of action as we now find ourselves in. Further, however, I really hate the idea that we have set up bin Laden as a strawman; as the only one who could have had any hand in the September 11th tragedy. Is he some sort of Islamic Richard Scaife with his finger in every dastardly deed done? I can't buy that there aren't many others holding responsibility, and our focus on one visible suspect is delusional.
Oh, and we're bombing Afghanistan. Cute. Yes, the Taliban is reprehensible. Yes, they may indeed know where bin Laden is. Anyone want to tell me exactly why we're bombing Afghanistan, though?
Oh; that's right. We're in a "war with terrorism", where any who harbor terrorists get treated as same, and in which any who are not for us are against us.
Funny. We bomb Belfast yet? Or Cyprus? Or Jerusalem? Or Gaza? Or the headquarters of the Shining Path in Peru, the Japanese Red Army, et cetera ad nauseam?
And while we're on the subject, has anyone noticed that the largest cell of Al-Quaida, the terrorist organization which OBL is head, is in Germany?
Or that the terrorists in those planes _weren't_ Afghanis
--most were Saudis, UAE's or Egyptian--but half from Saudi Arabia.
Yet when the FBI and the CIA request that Saudi Arabia allows them to run checks and traces on those names--the Saudis said no.
(This according to Seymour Hersh in his article in the New
Yorker Oct. 22nd issue.)
Sounds like they're against us, huh?
A little later in the article, Pres. Bush is quoted as saying that "as far as the Saudi Arabians go, they've been nothing but
cooperative."-- a direct quote.
Or that our vaunted "humanitarian drops" are just that: Drops in the bucket of 40,000 a day when more than a quarter of the 28 million-person population is starving?
Or that many of these food drops have gone right into minefields?
Or that the "proof" we are given linking the dead terrorists to bin Laden and Al-Quaida is about as visible as Joe McCarthy's lists stating all the names of the Communists in the State Department (a number which would grow with each repetition)?
Or that the same talk of infallible smart weapons we saw in the Gulf War (said talk later revealed to be way off the mark) is starting again?
Or that the CIA has been quietly complaining that its intelligence, advice, and briefings are not being paid attention to?
Or that this crisis has lead to the formation of a new Cabinet branch called "Homeland Security" (and couldn't they have thought of a cuddlier name like "American Safety" or "Gestapo"?) whose first action was to draw up a bill to combat terrorism which entailed restricting many of the civil liberties on which this country was founded?
You know, little things like the freedom of speech, of assembly, of privacy, from unlawful search and seizure, a jury of one's peers, fair and public trials, et cetera?
And that this branch is answerable only to the President?
Or that we have done a quick turnaround from denouncing the Palesatinians celebrating in the streets upon news of the bombings to declaring the need for a Palestinian state if the Middle East is to be peaceful?
Or that a ground war in Afghanistan would be a morass into which we would sink, giving up the lives of our young for years to come because of the country's terrain and native mindset (just ask Rudyard Kipling. Or the Soviets.)?
Or that the support we had at first from the world is rapidly dissolving?
Or that we did not capitalize quickly on the unprecedented groundswell of support and sympathy we GOT from the world at large after the tragedy? That's a huge opportunity lost.
Or that Congress and the President are talking more tax cuts (mostly of the corporate capital gains and the corporate alternative minimum gains tax) after it was shown that the first tax cut did not help boost the national economy and after we've entered into a long (if undeclared) war?
Look. I think we should go after any we can prove to be involved in the bombings with all we can. At least get one, and get him to roll over on the others he knows of, then repeat as necessary. But this bombing isn't doing that, and will only lead to more reprisals from this group when we should be cutting them out.
To Rick: Fine, fine words. You have my respect and admiration.
To everyone else: I, too, saw _Troublemakers_ at a Barnes and Noble tonight. The cashier was a kid who, apparently, went out of his way to look as much like Kurt Cobain as he possibly could. While ringing out my purchases-- _Troublemakers_ and Peter Ayckroyd's _London: A Biography_, just to strut my erudition-- I casually mention that this guy Ellison's a terrific writer. The Cobain lookalike says, "Really? I'm really into Kurt Vonnegut. Ever heard of him?"
Don't groan. I didn't. After all, he was young, probably used to a lot of people not knowing who Kurt Vonnegut is, and for all he knew, I could have been as illiterate as anyone else he'd encountered. And after all, he obviously had some taste. I reply, "Sure. Vonnegut's great. And this guy Ellison was the editor on Vonnegut's first collection of short stories."
The kid's eyes lit up. "Really?"
"Yeah," I reply. "There's a copy of _The Essential Ellison_ in the SF section. Check it out." The kid thanked me, and as I left, I added, "You might want to try Thomas Pynchon, too."
Rick,
Every point you submitted to these Harlan-bashers is what ran through my mind; I stated nothing because I knew you could do it better. Y'ain't the bouncer here fer nothin'.
Rick: You may not be a fan of Harlan's, but rest assured, after reading your beautifully-written post, I am now a fan of yours. Well done. (And I bet Ode--, I mean, The Masked Bishop won't understand one word of it.)
Jim
I'm inclined to support Justin's point about the torture scene in Robo.
I had to recall the elements surrounding the torture scene; indeed, it's VERY subjective. Verhoeven I do believe wanted us to experience it from Murphy's pov. This made the later scene where he revisits that moment in his dreams much more intense and effective; we see the cyborg jerking violently, the EEG firing off and we know exactly what he's experiencing.
I retract the statement about graphic "pointlessness"; it was very well calculated. Justin is also correct about the construction of character development. It is done in pieces as we see the world from Murphy's pov in his new form, struggling to remember and regain his humanity; to prove to himself that he is more than "product". That's when narrative structure is used as a tool. The torture scene is nauseating, very hard to watch; but I changed my mind about its need.
A Broader View:
You know: close-mindedness is the only real psychological morass to be trapped in. And every single one of us - EVERY human being without exception - is occasionally guilty of it. Myself included. ACKNOWLEDGING that of ourselves is the trick. Before blindly dumping on any work it really makes the difference to DISCUSS the pieces - to EXPLORE them and how they go together. That's not being stuck in some morass, that's talking about it intelligently. Single-sided descriptives like "mind-dribble" isn't always sufficient; when there is SOME complexity in the material, analysis is in order (and to the effect of whether it fails or succeeds). That doesn't mean I'm trying to hen-peck you or leap for the jugular if you don't like it when I do. Believe me, that's fine. It's the components I like to talk about. And that's all I've ever been after here, even if I failed to present myself properly at times. I don't mean to be a pain-in-the-ass; I'm just trying to make a point. And I made it.
That was very good, Justin; you brought the pieces into alignment. The film still could've gone further with a number of things (and still probably went over-the-top occasionally) but it has a lot of merit nevertheless.
Rick~ Here here. The wonder of a thousand pages of Ellison do not hold a candle to the genuine joy of a few minutes in his presence. And the wonder of his written word needs no defense from the likes of you or I.
Rob~ IRC, didn't the original RoboCop have to cut that boardroom scene (which went on for like three or four minutes of blood & guts shooting by the drone) in order to get out from under an X/NC-17 rating?
Mark Z.~ Thank you for such an eloquent post. Thank you again, unequivocally. Thank you.
Jim~ Are you my long lost sibling or something? I've lived with anxiety disorder my entire life. As a friend once said, "It ain't heavy, it's my genome." But that is not the fear of which I speak.
To all who answered on the fear question, great suggestions. Thank you all, Xanadu especially, for the Cuban Missile Crisis suggestion. That one hadn't even occured to me.
Lorin~ Writing music. That's a good question. It depends entirely on what I want to write. I listen to a lot of Enigma and Deep Forest. Start there and I'll get back to you.
I was supposed to go see Penn & Teller tonight, but we got as far as Mojave before my car said, and I quote, "Fuck you, I quit." So, after a night spent in the lovely Antelope Valley and a trip to my mechanic, we rescheduled to NEXT weekend AND reserved a rental car. If I'm extra lucky, maybe we can go see BMG on Friday night. John Thompson, wanna go to brunch on Sunday at Main Street Station? Instead of Vegas, we ended up at Wizard's down on at Universal City Walk, talking with one of the exceptionally talented acts, one James Dimarre. There is nothing that brings out the little kid in me like up close sleight-of-hand work. And he works with doves, which makes the illusions ten times as powerful.
More later, I'm rambling again.
L.
I have a fairly strict rule about not replying to Harlan-bashing or trolling on this board, especially off-the-cuff.
I am going to break it.
You can say what you will about how Harlan chooses to spend his time these days. Certainly he is not as productive as he was in his youth; certainly there are many people who have not heard of him. The sort of umbrage that Bishop takes is all too common; there is no shortage of people who feel they have the right, nay, a duty, to comment critically and cruelly on how an artist chooses to live his or her life.
I don't know what sort of bitterness in his heart or ugliness in his soul made him react to Peter David's apparently glowing article by coming here and nastily belittling Harlan in a manner that stops just short of vicious mockery; neither do I know why he chooses to continue to hang around and extend his sneer to the people that post here. However, this forum was intended as a place for discussion of Harlan and his work as well as a place for people with him in common to meet and shoot the shit. To not allow dissention or negative opinion would, I believe, be to turn this into a sort of mutual adoration society and therefore unless someone is directly and solely vulgar and insulting I do not plan on asking them to leave.
That having been said, let me turn the attention to one of Bishop's primary criticisms of Harlan: that he is no longer entertaining, that his "schtick" is old hat, that before an audience he is a predictable old bore.
This characterization is wrong on so many levels that it's hard for me to even give it enough credence to respond. Nearly anyone who has ever seen Harlan can tell you that not only is he a master storyteller, he is also almost a savant at working a crowd. He has and impeccable and natural comic timing. He speaks quickly and with accurate diction, and he is adept at both pitch control and mimicry. He has a deep and widespread knowledge and a limitless resevoir of anecdote to draw upon.
But what I believe takes Harlan from the merely admirable showman on the stage to the fantastic is that he does what he does up there with passion, with an obvious love for both his audience and what he is doing, with a childlike excitement that practically comes out of his pores. It is one of the qualities that endears him most to me; at his best he seems filled with a joyous spirit that he simply cannot contain. He delights in entertaining, and only the most callous or bitter heart cannot help but be infected with this delight.
The reason this is so endearing to me is that I believe this exhibited joy does not come from a practiced manipulation or a sense of showmanship. I believe that it springs from an inherent inability to be emotionally dishonest. There is a core of Harlan that has never given up the black-and-white elements of childhood morality, loyalty, wonder, temper. Sometimes this gets in his way and sends him raging at nothings or tilting at windmills; more often it makes him a pleasure to listen to or just be around.
I can say this because he is a friend; because I have spoken with him on literally hundreds of occaisions. The same reaction I have there seen in him to adulation and criticism, to successes and setbacks (often as they are occuring) is the same reaction I see of him in his public appearances. While he certainly ratchets it up a few notches; while he certainly has an awareness of when he has to be "on", the Harlan I see in private has the same child in him as the one on stage. I can hear it in his voice when it's excited about a new project or when it's breaking over bad news. I can see it in his eyes when they mist over his wife or, god help him, a friend lost to time. He is genuinely and deeply moved by the plight of others, he is sincerely concerned. It is not an act.
He is capable of ugliness. He is capable of egomania. He can be a self-promoter and a dissembler, he can be quick to anger and slow to forgive. But never let it be said about him that he is not ultimately engrossing and entertaining; never let it be said that Harlan Ellison is BORING.
I do not consider myself a fan of Harlans. I do not attend his appearances, I do not indulge in collectibles, I do not go to any extreme lengths to obtain his latest musings. Nor do I involve myself in the cult of personality - perhaps once, but now I do what I do as a friend and as a person who believes that the thanks I get from both him and the visitors here are worth the trials inherent in running this site.
I saw what I say because I believe that my considered opinion of the man may be valuable in the face of such virulent criticism. I believe this is one of the few times that it is appropriate for me to speak well of him in public. And if I can hazard a guess as to why Peter David speaks of him so highly and reverently, it would be that Peter has known him better than I and for longer and that he sees the same qualities that fuel my admiration and endearment.
And you, sir, who considers Harlan clichéd and passé and possible even paté; who comes to my home as a naysayer and a doubter and a spreader of odious gas -- you are quite simply barking up the wrong tree. There are certainly a number of avenues on which you could attack Ellison, but deriding him as a showman and a speaker simply is not one of them. And, incidentally, you couldn't be more wrong about his continued impact. He may not influence as many people as, say, Deepak Chopra or Britney Spears; nonetheless there is never a day or two that goes by that I do not hear from some new person who he has touched, whose life he has made better, and who wants to thank him or simply let me know about it. There is rarely a person I put in touch with him, even today in his supposed dotage and lack-of-impact years that does not invariably get back to me later and let me know how wonderful the experience was, how kind he was, how helpful, how genuine and considerate.
How dare you come, uninvited and unprovoked, with a gift of such insult and malice. May your mouth be filled with ashes for what you have said; may the bile you pour from your mouth burn its way down your chest and abdomen and settle, seething, on whatever genitals you call your own. May you someday come to hear yourself belittled and derided, called a nothing, by someone you have never born ill will or even met. And may you be forced to remain on this earth, growing older and more enfeebled with each passing season, until you have done one tenth of the good in this world that Harlan has done.
For shame.
Ed,
I LOVE bathroom scenes, man. They ARE the place to be.
As for the torture scene: my suspicion is that Verhoeven was trying to draw as much contempt for the thugs as possible. But on this matter I agree with you; nailing a cop (as wasting the police was now the crisis in this near-future Detroit) was enough. Lingering on it in close gory detail just seemed to vibe of cashing in on a popular movie trend.
But, like I said, it's my only REAL gripe.
Remember the moment when the dopey prototype "headless chicken" robot runs amok when it's demonstrated to OPC's board members? It has been programmed to warn a criminal to drop his gun, and then to blast him if he doesn't comply. It's awkwardly wheeled in and a young junior executive is chosen to pull a gun on the machine. The warning is issued. The exec drops his gun. The robot continues the warning and counts to five as the panicking board members selfishly push the exec clear of them and it shoots the guy dead. "Dick...I'm VERY disappointed in you", the old man scolds the fantabulous power-coveting Ronny Cox. As the dust clears everyone brushes himself and takes his seat. Now, that was a weee-ly funny scene. And there are many funny dark humorous moments like that throughout the movie (the one token, kiss-ass, always-grinning Oreo cookie black exec was great too; that actor was terrific). On your first viewing you don't expect them.
Much of the flick was both funny AND moving. Peter Weller, Ronny Cox and Miguel Ferrer were all magnífico.
For the time, the movie was doing something different in the comic book genre; its shots at the annoying 80's right-wing Republicans-In-Love-With-The-Dollar surge were refreshing. And I would say puerility - if that's really what you want to call it - is inherent in any comic book movie; it depends on what's being done with that 'puerility'. This movie fashioned it and the cliches in a new way. It's a 3-star rating sort of flick, one that's very good - that redeems itself in many ways - but might've been better in certain respects. However, any off-the-cuff disposal is really selling it short.
Now ya probably have a rough idea of what I think abouts RoboCop.
And yes, it might be a "surrogate for character development," I'll grant you. But I feel it is an appropriate one given the nature of the movie. Trying to establish Murphy any other way would have really slowed the movie down. You can't have a movie called ROBOCOP and spend thirty minutes on Murphy. The movie wasn't called MURPHY. The movie could have been done differently, sure, but not more expertly. It would have just been a different (dull) movie with a different focus. I like it the way it is.
Verhoeven filmed the death of Alex Murphy the way he did because he felt the audience needed to remember and feel for Murphy as he was before becoming a cyborg. Next time you look at the film, pay attention to the pre-Robocop Murphy. He doesn't do or say much that's the least bit memorable. He fiddles with his gun, shoots at the van, then follows the bad guys into the industrial district and gets his ass shot off. We don't find out more about pre-Robocop Murphy until much later on in the film, and if you don't already care about who the guy was, then why bother sticking around? It's important that we care about Alex before he dies, particularly given the fact that the film ends with him asserting his humanity, choosing to identify himself as "Murphy." The only way for Verhoeven to make Alex Murphy really stick in our minds and make us root for him was to have him die so horribly. We remember him and we root for him particularly strongly throughout the rest of the movie as he hunts down his vicious killers one by one. Yes, the scene is tremendously disturbing, and if one were to extract it from the film and watch it out of context, I'm sure it would seem stomach-churningly inappropriate. Regardless, the unflinching way in which Murphy's torture/death was presented in the movie was a wise, ballsy move that worked brilliantly.
J
Hi
I am a whiney complainer who rattles on about how others are sucky "has beens" but I'm too entrenched in negativity to back it up with whats the hot new great thing in the science fiction writers world.
I wish I got as much attention as Harlan Ellison. I wish David would make love to me with words instead of Harlan. I also wish he would love me romantically. Unfortunatelly I am a big ugly lug and poop my pants. Nobody wants to be near me because I smell. I guess this is the reason I'm so nasty.
The Masked Bishop
David, congratulations on your upcoming appearance on Who Wants To Be A Millionaire. In other news, I find myself now questioning the efficacy of dropping bombs in Afghanistan, especially after reading a lengthy article in the paper today. Seems you may be right after all. There was some initial satisfaction at first, seeing some action being taken...but I think the military may have jumped the gun. Michael Moorcock made the point on his website that America had enormous sympathy worldwide until the strikes began. Imagining a way out of this mess is daunting. I've given up my old certainties and admit I am as confused as anyone else.
Rob: Perhaps I didn't make myself clear enough, but I wasn't referring to the movie as a whole in citing Kubrick, but to the corporate bathroom scene with Miguel Ferrer and Ronny Cox (i.e., the ridiculous junior high school "We used to call the old man names" dialogue and the unmotivated, over-the-top staging of Cox grabbing Ferrer by his hair). Just as Kubrick seems to have an obsession with bathrooms in his films, in which frequently savage events go down (the demise of Pyle in "Full Metal Jacket" and Jack's closing of the deal with the evil spirits in "The Shining," to name just two), Verhoeven used the bathroom in a similarly nutty vein with the power play between the two men (complete with the menacing low angle of Cox observing the corporate camaraderie within his bathroom stall). Taking in all of this scene's facets, it SHOULD NOT work, but it somehow does. And I'm at a loss as to how to explain it. I suppose we could chalk it up to the cinematic reluctance of probing that vulnerable nature of hitting the loo or exposing the conversations that sometimes occur in the bathroom, which may close deals or change lives in the process.
The violence in "Robocop," which had no relation to my seconding of your entreaty, could not be any more different from the violence in Kubrick's films, which is motivated and related to the late Stanley's frequent studies of human-turned-amoral-antihero. I find the shooting of Murphy particularly disgraceful, almost as if Verhoeven is enjoying the profiling of downright savage humans gleefully committing violence and hoping that the audience is on his side. It does not expose character. It exposes viciousness that is not necessary (that Murphy is shot by hoodlums SHOULD be tragic enough, that he is shot several times with the camera lingering in closeup on his suffering, using this as a surrogate for character development, is particularly odious). The violence in "A Clockwork Orange," by contrast, serves to expose a world devoid of morals. As the old man is being beaten by Alex and his droogs, we understand his pleas for the world of before and we become more concerned about how a monster like Alex could become who he is by way of his actions (an argument turned completely on its ears by the satirical rivulets that flow throughout the film).
My question is how "Robocop" can get away with peurile satire and simultaneously allow its mean-spirited pugilism to reveal it for the muddled nonsense that it is. Could it have been made another way? Or was this ill-construed amalgam something that should have been scrapped altogether? I'm likely to endorse the latter rhetorical question, but, as I said before, there is some oddball quality within the satirical newscasts and the bathroom scene.
Mark: I thought this part of your post was interesting--
"If not we invite more and wider destruction here, and allow the eclipse of our Grand Experiment by self-hyptnotized vandals. We should create a "Peril Zone" around the very issue of terrorism: The decision to allow their training or funding in your country could be last decision your state makes. I think this is high and mighty on our part, and it needs to be."
The reason it is high and mighty of the US to say this is that *we* trained and supplied the Taliban. *We* trained and supplied the Iraqi army (among other terror-inducing military organizations worldwide). If we are going to condemn terrorists, we have to condemn all of them, not only the ones who are offending us at the moment. We have to stop aiding those whom we perceive the lesser of the two evils, because frequently we're wrong.
I am not trying to blame the victim here. Obviously the WTC tradgey was an abomination, inexcusable and unforgivable. However, good can come out of it to just slightly redeem the loss. I hope the US government decides to change its foreign policy based on the roots of this act, not just the immediate symptom. This is a moment for self-examination and change for the better.
Bermanator
Re, education: My lower-learning years left me with three things: The alphabet, the multiplication table and the periodic table. Respectable things all. But most everything else, from trigonometry to relativity to Von Mises to Melville was later discovery, and not necessarily under the auspices of art school. I think what school should teach us is love for the solitary act of learning on one's own initiative, as well as create a no-hassle environment for that love.
Okay, deep breath. On the war. Lynn says, "Thank you, I think." Yes, yes, and again yes. Please construe no equivocation by me. I have been moved by your fiery, ultra-involved words, and I brook no suggestion of inaction or vacillation on the issue of return force. I've also long been an admirer of the liberal tradition of polemic engagement -- but in this case I hear solutions coming only from the hawks. And viable solutions do NOT include more of the same kind of timorous appeasement that began with Iran's nationalization of western-owned oil fields in the 50's, fueled Arab contempt until the present, and bore fruit on the 11th.
We are here attacked by a unified enemy, who is being shielded by the red herring of individual criminal culpability and geographic locale. You are oriented toward solutions, so I have one to offer. Our intellectual leaders -- whoever they are, and wherever -- issue a statement to world religion itself: Determine and state, you clerics of whatever God, to the utmost of your intellectual and argumentative power, that you and your faith stand four-square in favor of: Political and intellectual freedom. Tolerance. Material prosperity. Religious pluralism. Universal suffrage. To the extent that you can't, is the extent of your sympathy with our bitter enemy.
These values are precisely the ones under attack in the person of this country, and when two opponents share the same premise, the more consistent side triumphs. We must therefore shun like toxin the premises of the zealots: self-annulment, faith above science, anti-materialism, the supremacy of the group. Including I might add, their hip western versions, and those of our homegrown fundamentalists.
If not we invite more and wider destruction here, and allow the eclipse of our Grand Experiment by self-hyptnotized vandals. We should create a "Peril Zone" around the very issue of terrorism: The decision to allow their training or funding in your country could be last decision your state makes. I think this is high and mighty on our part, and it needs to be. If by it we are enlarging the influence of the values I listed above, we are using our FINITE tenure as Sole Superpower to the benefit, and safety, of humanity. I invite everyone to consider what the shape of the next competing superpower will be. That shape is partially under our control today, but not for long.
About civilian casualties: My "shame" is reserved for the democracy afraid to protect its own citizens if the citizens of a hostile nation are in the way. Such a government is a protector by pretense only, and a historical miscarriage.
Now sigh. I wanted to clarify myself, not bore or start flames. I really think we need to start thinking of the values we depend on daily, here in this easily tranquilized land.
Mark Zug
Thought I'd just let you know that I just picked up TROUBLEMAKERS at the local Barnes and Noble. Last one on the shelf, though there was a big enough space next to ESSENTIAL ELLISON that there may have been a grand total of 3 or 4 before I got there.
Gotta go watch the Yanks. Ciao.
-TODD
Just checking in-- now that my days are taken up with office work, I have a lot less time to play on the Net. Maybe it's for the best.
Re trolls. I don't respond to'em anymore. Their styles are always easy to notice, and they're not worth the energy it takes to reply to them. I figure, just kick'em off, delete their notes, and let'em wail some other place.
To Alex Krislov: I read the de Camp book on Scopes years ago, too-- used it for a book report in the 7th grade, actually. As for science education, I'm not sure if it's any better or worse. After all, if kids aren't encouraged to be interested in such things outside of school, then the best instructors in the world won't be able to teach'em anything.
Re Heather's departure, and a few other things. Personally, I tended to scroll past her notes when I didn't feel like reading everything. But I do that with _everyone_ from time to time, and I never felt that this would be a good reason for me to complain about other people's participation. I think it was a bit inconsiderate to complain about her, since she wasn't doing anything mean or malicious or swinish.
For what it's worth, there's at least one semi-regular whose opinions strike me as know-nothing gibberish, and it wasn't Heather. Also, I'm staying out of the war chat mainly out of fatigue.
Alex,
I didn't want to respond about RoboCop because I don't want Harlan to think I'm going to argue if he decides to give his own input; I already gave my own angle on it, so I shall not retort. To his relief I shall shut-up. As he's worked in that medium many times I'd like to see in my mind for a moment the film he saw instead of the one I saw.
But I will try to put a spin on your angle: while I did submit I accepted the film's weaknesses I was aware of its inherent cliches from the start, obviously. But, you know, the movie was supposed to be about those cliches...in a new way. It WAS a 'comic book', with a treatment entirely new for the genre for the time. I hated the sequel myself but whatever 'chances' you felt it had taken (and there were one or two there I did like), as they say, a start is a start. Like the cyborg himself they took an old central idea and gave it a new form. It's almost like an organic aspect to the film. They'd opened new territory with the first RoboCop.
The first film made me laugh. The sequel didn't. With moments like anchorpeople giving local news - smiles painted on their faces - intermittently promoting the latest new products - updating us on 'late breaking news' like a new experimental U.S. satellite having accidentally destroyed the President's limo, wiping out everyone; and genuine pathos so well built up by Peter Weller ("I can feel them...but I can't remember them", in reference to the family he once had); and the decadence of the corporate cut-throats of Detroit, mocking both the greedy milieu of the 80's as well as much of America's history.
Thus, for the time, we're talking about a film that made careful use of the cliches - as was supposed to be at the heart of it - in a new mold. That's what makes it a very fun film.
Ed,
The RoboCop dialogue geared for specific effect was excellent (PARTICULARLY in the news spots). And I have to disagree with your bringing up Kubrick. His so-called outre had a point-of-view; it was commentary. The violence had a reason for being. The numbing, nauseating torture scene in RoboCop didn't NEED to be so sick and over-the-top. And it wasn't even just the graphic gore; it was just too humiliating. Too much exploitation there.
Xanadu,
I accept praise wherever I can get it; I thought you'd be the last to expect it from. And I do thanks ya fer it. And, yes, it probably does mean the Apocalypse.
Mark: I fear nothing! *grunt* Alright, maybe I'm a little scared of Sgt. Klein.
Lorin: The workshop is being hosted by the local community college, and their course description was really lacking. It's a Speculative Fiction workshop that lasts for three days in mid-November, for about eight to ten hours each day, and that's all the information I have. I don't think there will be any visiting writers, just Mr. Bryant and the students.
J
Catching up on the rest of the board, after long absence...
David, regarding your comments on David Gerrold, yep, he's still working. His big triumph this past decade was a novelette called "The Martian Child," a very autobiographical tale of his adoption of a son. Won half the awards in the universe. As a long-time fan of David's work, and as a friend, I can recommend it as possibly the finest thing he ever wrote--and a great example of "SF for people who don't like SF." If it's SF at all; very debatable.
His new YA books, recommended by another member here, are quite good. I may be biased by the name of one of the central characters, though. Oh, and that reference to the "razor blade of life" is doubtless from Lehrer as you guessed. He likes that kind of music.
Regarding Heather, okay, she was a kid and came across as one, but I'm gonna miss her. Her enthusiasm was infectious.
Rob: What would make ROBOCOP a better film? A better center. It had much fine satire, as you note, but in the end it was a mind-numbingly cliched story. Cop gets beaten into the dirt, loss everything, but in the end rises above adversity to regain his very identity. Well-played, but nothing original there. All the original material--and there was plenty--was ephemeral to the central old-movie plot.
To this day, I prefer Frank Miller's imperfect ROBOCOP II because Frank took some real risks, pissing off plenty of people in the process.
--alex
>The Masked Bishop must have his facts wrong. If Ellison was greedy <
Well, just goes to show that it takes exactly 24 hours to get misquoted on one of these boards. If you take a look back, Mr. Church, you'll see that I have not ever discussed Ellison in terms of greed. I was dissing David for suck-upage, and I mentioned that Harlan spends most of his time now chasing down royalties. If you want to interpret that as some kind of accusation of greed, go ahead...Harlan has a right to get money for his stuff, and I never said otherwise. If you haven't noticed, from the past 5 years of book releases, he's in retrospective mode now.
And what, you've now got to be a published writer to have the right to critize another one? Ok, Frank, next time you tell a friend you didn't like a movie, I hope you directed a better one.
It's not Harlan that's the problem. Is the moronic cultism that swims in his wake.
TMB
Let's talk about something other than buzzing gnats, folks. Reading the latest "Skeptical Inquirer," I was more than a little worried by an article on the sliding fortunes of science education today--to wit, biology teachers supporting creationism. And it made me worry for my children.
Thing is, I don't remember what they taught me in high school. By the time I began HS in the mid-sixties, I was reading tomes like L. Sprague de Camp's "The Great Monkey Trial" (still THE work on the Scopes trial), layman's books on science, tons of SF, learning science mostly on my own. The only thing I'm sure I remember from class is that "osmosis is the movement of liquid from a region of high pressure to a region of lesser pressure through a semi-permeable membrane until the pressure in both regions is equal."
So: how was your high school science education? Did you have to learn it on your own? Or were the teachers of yesteryear better than today's? Is stupidity really the only element in the universe more common than hydrogen?
--Alex
Frank,
While I agree with your post on fear for the most part, I just wanted to note that fear is not a frailty Fear is an extremely necessary survival instinct that is your body telling you "get away!" What you're referring to is, I believe, xenophobia (hell, considering they're biting the hand that fed them, both Al Queda and whatever extremist group is sending anthrax could be accused of xenogenesis).
Regards,
Joseph
P.S.
BBBBBZZZZZZZZZZ. *swat*
Xanadu: if our definitions of civil were the same, you wouldn't describe what's his name's post as civil. It's not. I can only judge the politeness of a post by asking myself, how would I feel if this were said to me, in a public forum? If it would make me feel like shit and had nothing positive in it, it's not civil.
Being polite and respectful to someone does not = placing him on a pedestal. My mama raised me to act like a gentleman even in disagreement. Several other Webderlanders have managed to criticize Mr. Ellison without causing a flame war. I rest my case.
I am not annoyed at the trolling per se; it's part of life on the internet. I guess what bothers me is that it inevitably winds up taking the focus off of positive conversation and onto in-fighting. Just as the kid in class who acts up puts the focus on him and takes it off the learning. Ya know?
Thanks, Rick, for creating this forum where people can talk with and about Harlan and life. Yes, we all realize this is a tiny little enclave, but hey, that's why we like it.
And that's all I got to say.
Bermanator
(being on the fringe has it's benefits)
Is is is. Damn typo shit. lol.
The Masked Bishop must have his facts wrong. If Ellison was greedy then why does He write short stories instead of more commercial novels? Short stories have never been as popular to the reading public. Ellison does have an ego, but so do most artists. Compared to someone like Salvador Dali, Ellison is a meek and mild science geek. Remember, ego creates art. Humility is for the lesser talents. Humility is a dog that doesn't hunt. And Masked Bishop, what the fuck have you written lately pal?? Thought so. Sucka.
Getting Bin Laden is simple folks:
You convene a world court, use peace keeping and intelligence to find the perps, than you issue huge monetary rewards for capture. Bin Laden and the rest of the retches get arrested and tried for crimes against humanity, just like Nuremburg. Now can we please continue with our buisiness.
Gore Vidal suggests since America is the number one state of terror, that we have a lot of gaul to suggest that Democracy is the reason why the terrorists bombed us. Now I know Christopher Hitchens in all alone in his quest to become a sell out on the left.
I would be interesed in seeing one of those Usenet posts in alt.fan.harlan that you think is me. I just went there using Google (not really knowing what to look for. but what the hell) but the archive is so huge I couldn't find anything.
And just for the record, while you can get off on calling me a troll because my nom de plume is obviously an alias, and because my comments are not 100% "is Harlan the second coming or what," riddle me this, Batman: if I didn't have some interest in the man and his work, gee, would I be here? I know the man's enormous ego is infectious, and that many here interpret a criticism of his work as a criticism of their lives, but Harlan Ellison bulletin boards are hardly the stop of choice for bored Netizens who want to go a-trolling.
He's very old news, guys...this little world you've created here may be intense in its passions, but it's fringe, babies. Go take a poll at work, and ask everyone "who's Harlan Ellison?" Blank stares or I dunnos will comprise 99% of the responses. Maybe all of them. See, HE fans are precious, limited commodities, and they are only getting scarcer. So I wouldn't be so choosy just become some of us see that Harlan is as much bullshit and bluster as he is talent.
TMB
>He's a fixture on the alt.fan.harlan-ellison newsgroup, where he regularly holds court on How-Ellison-Is-A-Money-Grubbing-Egomaniac, and Why-Ellison's-Work-Won't-Be-Remembered-Twenty-Years-From-Now, and so on. <
I'm sorry, but that's not true. This is the first time I have ever posted a "rant" about Harlan Ellison on the Internet, and actually, my rant was more directed at Peter David's excessive adoration in the last issue of CBG.
TMB
Wow. I go away for a few days, and look what happens. I'll try to be brief, but there's a lot to catch up on...
Everyone: Don't wonder if you're unfairly ignoring the Solomonic utterances of The Masked Bishop/Patrick Ellman; trust me, this guy is a troll from WAY BACK. He may think he's oh-so-cleverly covering his tracks, but his distinctive phrasing gives away his true identity. He's a fixture on the alt.fan.harlan-ellison newsgroup, where he regularly holds court on How-Ellison-Is-A-Money-Grubbing-Egomaniac, and Why-Ellison's-Work-Won't-Be-Remembered-Twenty-Years-From-Now, and so on. Apparently, he's a little lonely, and wants someone to play with him. Don't.
About Heather's Departure: I have to admit, I feel I share some responsibility for this. My post of 10/22, while not solely directed at her, DID criticize, in a general way, her propensity for vague and endless musings on the Struggle of the Artist. Though I still think I raised some valid points, on the whole, I wish I had kept my thoughts to myself. She's a kind soul who is clearly going through some rough times, and I should have known that my words would hurt more than help. What can I say? I fucked up.
As for the comments by Dwayne Pipe and Dan Thorne: Cheap shots, cheap shots, cheap shots all. If her posts bothered you guys so much, couldn't you have ONCE directly told her to cut down on the verbiage? To do a "Ding, dong, the witch is dead!" dance after SHE HAS LEFT seems a little immature--and not a little spineless. (And I AM NOT saying that you have to be a voluminous poster to voice an opinion. But if your ONLY post within recent memory is on a schoolyard level, well, don't be surprised if it's discounted by more than a few. And Dan, I have to say that your speculation about the motives of some Webderlanders--namely, that they write solely to attract Harlan's attention--would hold a little water if your only other post of recent memory didn't, oh, I don't know, link to a webpage which detailed how you finagled a tour of Harlan's house. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying it was a bad or dubious thing to do--hell, I might have done the same thing, myself--but it hardly casts you in the role of Dispassionate Observer Of All Things Ellisonian. What I AM saying is this: We're ALL fans here, and sometimes, yeah, we DO want to provoke a response from Harlan. There's nothing wrong with occasionally trying to do that, provided it's done in a respectful manner. But to haughtily claim that "certain people" are interested in nothing else? Oh, come on. Back that statement up, or keep it to yourself.)
On the recipe for Cafe' Ellison Diabolique: My copy of THE HARLAN ELLISON HORNBOOK (which is the stand-alone volume printed by Penzler Books) lists "El Popular Mexican-style cake chocolate" as an ingredient. Regular "brick chocolate" is the unsweetened variety, which Mexican chocolate sure as hell ain't. You can find this type in almost any gourmet food store. If I could drink coffee without ending up like a hummingbird who has done fifteen lines of bathtub crank, I'd try out this recipe. Somebody let me know how it turns out.
David: I don't know whether to congratulate you for getting a shot at winning a lot of moohla, or extend my sympathies for your being forced into close proximity to Regis Philbin. You DO know that he's going to say, "So, David--did you do a lot of (wink) RESEARCH on this book?", don't you?
Oh, and what's this "I regularly attend synagogue, but I am not a Jew" business? I've heard of Jews passing as goyim, but never vice versa...
Lorin O: Good to hear from a fellow Tampa-Bayer. (Is that the correct term?) I can recommend Keith Jarrett as good music to scribe to--I'm listening to his SOLO CONCERTS: BREMEN/LAUSANNE right now, as a matter of fact.
On The War: The difficulty I see, is that this conflict will require tremendous foresight on the part of our politicians and military men, which, let's face it, is not something they're famous for having. It's not just a matter of having clear strategic goals; it's being able to play three-dimensional chess on a global scale, not only anticipating your enemy's moves, but being three or four moves ahead, yourself. There are SO many variables, it makes my head spin to think about it. Can the military find Bin Laden? Can the public understand that the war won't end with his capture and/or death? What will the nature of a new Afghan government be? Will it include ex-Taliban officials? Is Russian involvement a bad idea? Should we lean on the Saudis more? What about Iraq? If it turns out that Hussein is behind the anthrax attacks, should the war be extended to him? What about the Palestinian/Israeli conflict? Should the US insist on Israeli withdrawl from the West Bank and Gaza Strip? What about the role of assassination and torture--is the use of truth serum by our government wrong? And on and on and on...
What is clear is that this conflict requires a US paradigm shift of massive proportions. I've said it before: We were insulated from the world's true nature for too long. We thought the goings-on of nations half a planet away didn't concern us, and that we could just go on our merry, air-conditioned way. We were so wrong, and I fear we are ill-prepared for a crisis that may NEVER end. We're at war, not with a specific nation, but with a mindset born of ignorance, poverty, and hatred. To even make a dent in it will require an integration of the military, the political, the humanitarian, and the philosophical unlike anything attempted since World War II. I hope we can do it. "May you live in interesting times," indeed.
Lynn: As a person who was diagnosed with panic disorder/agoraphobia twelve years ago, I have quite a bit to say about fear, oh boy, yes I do. However, it's late/early, so I'll get into it another time.
Did I say I was going to be brief? Jeezus...
Jim
Michael & Lynn: Thanks you both for the replies. I think I may be able to find something.
I wanted to talk, briefly, about the MIT lecture. I was there. It was the first lecture I've ever been to like that (I'm 24) and found out about it through a HERC mailing. I had a friend who was interested (with a lineup like Ellison, Gaiman, and David, who wouldn't be?) so we went. An hour up to Boston and to MIT and I LOVED it. But, I did note one thing: the crowd was rude. THEY were there for Neil Gaiman. He was their star, their hero. Mr. Gaiman is very talented, but he hasn't been in the biz for 50 years. Give respect to where it's due. I had a blast, my friend had a blast. It's a shame an uneducated fool like me (I dropped out of college due to a low bullshit threshold) can be more open-minded than the Ivy League kids there. Ah, well. Wish I'd thought enough to bring a mini-tape recorder.
By the way, Mr. Ellison also almost moved me to tears when he came off the stage and talked to an upset student and explained himself a little more fully. Again, what a great time. I hope to be able to attend another lecture reading sometime.
Lynn, on fear: you've made me take a personal inventory and I feel pretty damn lucky. I felt the marathon of anxiety on 9/11, and slept maybe three hours a night for several days -- I had to go camping in the mountains away from all radios and TV's to finally sleep a full night. But before that, it's been pretty rare and brief. Life-threatening terror takes place very quickly and leaves a metallic taste in the mouth. I've had a couple of car accidents, not serious, but you don't know that till everything stops moving. During my days as a machinist I worked with things that could kill easily -- We turned hardened steel shafts in lathes, and the scariest thing is breaking one. If carelessly set up, a solid case-hardened shaft two inches in diameter can snap in half from centrifugal force, and the free end may as well be a shell. One guy did just that not twenty feet from me -- luckily the shaft went up and not across; it went through the roof. I've broken smaller shafts within the interior half of the machine (not nearly as dangerous) but it's a real tremble-making experience to be right next to it when it happens.
What I'm describing is very momentary fear; I'd have to go back to age eleven for the more drawn-out kind: my three-year old sister had recently been injured in a fall from a sliding board, but was fully recovered and was playing in the park with myself and my other sister to watch over her. We watched her carefully as she made her way up the slide ladder, then sooner than expected she was at the top and for some reason we were a few steps away, a few too many. Down she slid, and about one-third of the way down she tilted to the side, and went over, slowly, horribly diving headfirst into the ground. And was still. From that moment began several hours of deep fear: I was young enough to be freaked out that this should happen twice in a row; it had an air of cosmic malevolence -- plus I felt responsible, and prospectively responsible for the worst eventuality. We ran all the way home with me carrying her, then sped all the way to the hospital without her regaining consciousness. That was the only real time in my life I felt truly overwhelmed by direct fear.
The happy ending is that she had suffered only a concussion, came home a few days later, and is now a happy suburban mom with three kids.
So there's my ramble for the evening. I think Justin may have some good stories about fear, with his close proximity to exploding stuff and sheer vertical drops. S'all for me, for now.
Mark Z
Justin: I've had quite a bit of experience with writing workshops of all shapes and sizes (Officially outing myself here: I'm also editorial director of one). Maybe I can help. Can you give some info about the workshop (understanding that you don't know much)? How long will it be? Is it just Mr. Bryant and a bunch of students, or will there be visiting writers/agents/editors, etc? Tell me what you do know, and I'll try to fill you in as best as I can.
I imagine there are others on the board who could jump into this conversation as well, but if you'd rather do this via email, that's perfectly fine w/ moi.
Adios!
Lorin
Lynn: Circlesong. Great stuff! Thanks for turning me on to it, though I know that wasn't your express intention. I've been looking for some good music to write to lately, something without lyrics, and this is heading to the top of the pile.
Any other recommendations along the same lines? Good music for writing? (This is addressed to all, of course.) I've tried various bits of classical music, but that doesn't quite do it for me. Some Ottmar Liebert. Willie and Lobo. Django Rheinhardt.
Has this been covered once already here? If so, never mind. Just ignore me.
Another, totally unrelated, question for any of you Jonathan Lethem fans. I just read "This Shape We're In" and am fairly stumped as to what it all means. I consider myself of more-than-reasonable intelligence, and I REALLY admire Lethem's work, but this book left me saying, "Huh?!" Any thoughts? Interpretations?
Much appreciated.
Best to all,
Lorin
Is there ever science fiction conventions in San Francisco?? What do people do at science fiction conventions?? Sell 1st editions at tables? Writing workshops??
-Fillenia the Mogtent
P A Berman - Oh, our definitions of "civil" are very close to the same (and I didn't think you were nasty in any way) - but, and it's gonna seem like the thinnest splitting of hairs here - The Man isn't our host here - Rick Wyatt is. This is HIS living room, and as he's seen fit to leave the post in question on the board, I don't think our variants on the definition really matter.
And Harlan himself has stated repeatedly that he is a regular guy - warts and all - and we ought not place him on any pedestals.
Mr. Masked came to this board, knowing its name and knowing it's bias. He's not a troll in the usual sense, but he is out for a flame war. Don't give him the satisfaction of annoying you - he'll grow tired muttering to himself and he'll go away all by himself.
Xanadu: not trying to be nasy here, but I suggest you look up the word "civil." Our definitions differ. I happen to think it's significant that this bulletin board is called Ellison Webderland. Respect for the host is de rigeur when you're sitting in someone's living room.
Lynn: Fear v. anxiety-- this is a tough line to draw as they are related concepts. I think I suffer from anxiety much more often than naked fear. I felt massive anxiety on 9-11 but no real fear for myself. Actually, it was an anxiety/denial cocktail for awhile.
Fear, though? For my life, health, stuff like that? Not in a long time. Even when my mother was dying, and my cat more recently, it was more anxiety, the anticipation of loss and grief, that afflicted me. I've never had a gun pointed at me, had a car accident, a serious illness, etc. The couple of times I've been jumped I was too preoccupied with giving as good as I got to be afraid until later.
Only in nightmares do I think I've experienced true terror. Maybe that's why I like good horror novels/movies so much. And why I feel so damn bad for people who have to suffer real fear every day.
Todd: When I was a kid I was very worried about nuclear war too. I spent 8 of my formative years during the Reagan administration/ Evil Empire days. I was sure NY was going to be turned into a plain of radioactive glass. Thanks, Ron, for a life of neurosis. So glad they named an airport after you considering you fired all the air traffic controllers... whoops, sorry, tangent.
The Bermanator
As one of the anonymous few I may be the wrong person to say this - but The Masked Phantom below may not be entirely out of line. He is being civil and though he is raising the same old straw horses we seen before, arguments practically no one on this board would agree with - he needn't be run off like a common troll. He simply needs to understand that we won't rise to the bait - nor will we argue the point - if he truly doesn't like Harlan, he can simply wander off into the rest of the wonderful world - there are a hell of lot of interesting things in it, and I wish him well exploring them. But, you really ought to go find something to derive joy from, sir - because life is short, and that bitterness and that obvious anger will bring you nothing but ashes at the end of a life squandered complaining about someone else's failings.
Lynn - How about the Cold War/Cuban Missle Crisis, Orson Welles' War of the World broadcast, The Special Bulletin TV broadcast, or the Apollo 13 flight? How about every launch of a spacecraft, or every reentry? The moment when you put your training and your life on the line right before your first battle (with enemy armies, bad guy criminals, fire, etc.)
Rob - Re: Pacifists and the need to put up or shut up. Extraordinary. Very, very well put. (Does my agreeing with Rob count as one of the sure signs of the coming apocalypse?)
David Loftus - I concur with you re: Heather, but, like Lynn - I'd really love to see what you think the proper course out of this Afghanistan/bin Laden mess is.
Well, I think that's enough from me...
The correct response to a gnat is not to swat at it but to develop thick enough skin that something that insignificant is unable to draw blood. 'nuff said. Go about your business.
Fear is a constant human frailty. That is why religion has the power it has in this country. We fear the unknown, so we welcome the illusion, without first fact checking if the illusion has a false front. The God with the blood in his claws must consistently search for new meat to keep the human race at a backwards pace. We must always search deep within ourselves, but not to the point of pulling out false notions of some inner sainthood. The bombing made us into hurt children, searching for the abuse in the blood of the flag. We must rise up and become whole again. Fear is important, but strength of mind and charactor is the victor in the end.
The last time I felt raw fear was September 11. I know that that date is already becoming a cliche....and that people just chalk it up to today's current angst....but I'm talking about the exact 2 hour span when everything was happening. Other than the time I was mugged at knifepoint on my apartment stairwell, glinting blade to my stomach, and the time my sister came up the cellar steps when I thought I was alone in the house (I was 14, the cellar door is slowly opening and I am desperately trying to shut it....until my sister yelled at me), I felt real fear from 9am - 11am EST on September 11.
I was at work, less than 25 miles from the WTC, and I was listening to my Walkman as all the news came in (I had the Walkman to listen to the Yankee game while I attended it that night at Yankee Stadium after work....suffice to say, the game was cancelled). As our net connection crashed due to everyone signing onto the new sites, I listened as various stations reported what was happening as it happened. When the first tower came down I was absolutely stunned.....and as I drove home at 11am with not a plane (or bird for that matter) in the skies, it was a very very frightening time.
I had always had nightmares of nuclear holocaust as a child....always feared I would look toward NYC skyline one day and see mushroom cloud rising and know I could not outrace it. And this was as close to that as I had ever gotten. Remember, there were a lot of false reports going on at the time of unaccounted for flights....and with our local spin being the WTC, I had to wonder if planes were dropping all over the country.
For two hours I was scared shitless. When I got home and then watched 13 straight hours of news coverage, I was able to see that though it was to be a major point in American history, our country cannot fall apart that easily. Of course, two nights later when they let the first flights take off and a whole bunch of false rumors started being tossed around about terrorists being arrested as they were boarding planes, the fear...or more frustration...hit for about 10 minutes, until I realized that you can never believe a news story unless you are watching it live or unless it has had an hour or so to shake out the obvious falsities.
America America God shed his grace on thee, and crown thy good with brotherhood from sea to shining sea. Go Yanks!!!!
-TODD
David & PAB: Thanks for the info. Yes, Rwanda & the Balkans did figure prominently in my line-up. As to the others, I'm trying to stick to the twentieth century. And I think my point of origin may be the Whitechapel Murders. Prior to that, I don't know how much influence the press (translate: the speed with which terrible news travelled through a populace) had on the mob's mindset. Again, the concept is fresh, pure, unadulterated fear, not the fear whose senses have been dulled with resignation, or watered thin with patriotism or any of the other societal coping mechanisms we have evolved.
As to an individual's fear, I think we walk around more afraid than we'd possibly care to admit. I think the anthrax thing is demonstrating that admirably. But at second thought, how much of that is just anxiety and not genuine fear? I know that in the days following Sept. 11th, any loud bang made me jump, any dark cloud shape made my heart pound and my mouth dry up, and, you'll like this one, anytime my cellphone rang or there was a message on my voicemail. Do you remember the line from "Where the Boys Are", about never knowing that when you make love to someone, you never until its too late that it was the last time? I cringe at answering messages now, with a hint of that strange terror in my heart. Never knowing if I should delete it, or will I curse myself later?
Thank you for listening to me ramble. Again.
L.
Lynn, excellent question. It seems like you're looking for situations when a group of people experienced fear. The Israel/Palestine situation comes to mind; the Holocaust; much of African history in the last 400 years; the Trail of Tears; post Allende Chile; Europe during the Black Plague; the gay population at the beginning of the AIDS crisis.
On a micro level, I'm also interested in situations where an individual experiences raw terror. Do we, in regular life, experience it much? I mean, not during war, torture, etc. but in the course of a post-industrial 20/21st century Western life? When? Like Lynn said, not anxiety, as life is fraught with that, but raw fear?
Hmmm...
The Bermanator
Ah, Chris L, you're from Philly. No wonder you're bitter about NY. Yankee fans do have compassion for Phillies fans. Truly. You're breaking my heart.
All I can say is, jealousy makes a person ugly before his time. I was driving down Market Street last week... I rest my case.
Bermanator
(all in good fun, really...except the part about Market Street)
"They dined on mince, and slices of quince,
Which they ate with a runcible spoon."
I haven't read Stephenson (although Loftus has tempted me to add him to my book pile), but it's good to see him apply the Lear concept to the tedious world of bureaucracy. I did that myself a few years ago at a temp assignment. I became so fascinated by the uptightness of one particular manager that I decied to play with his head. One day, after he had yelled at me for some minutaie, I asked this short, balding man if he had any "runcibility reports" for me to fill out. "Runcibility?" he asked. "Yes, runcibility," I replied. "There's a noticeable lack of it in this firm." He still looked at me, absolutely puzzled, and I continued, "There was a major study on runcibility's effect on corporate efficiency about a month ago in the Wall Street Journal. Didn't you see it?"
"No, I didn't," said this guy.
"Well, if you like, I can prepare a runcibility report template in the event that you need to fill out one." The man then thanked me and I spent two days preparing an intricate form with such fields as "Umbrellas Twaddled" and "Penultimate Catharsis." By the time this guy had actually read the form and realized what I had done, I was long gone from the place.
Should you be between jobs, you can have a lot of fun with the peripatetic nature of temp work.
Michael Hurley:
Correct you are! It is Lear.
Comic book rush though it was, _Snow Crash_ didn't evoke any Deep Thoughts for you? About Sumerian culture/language as virus/etc., etc.?
Michael,
Steady muh man.
Of course, he did make some good points. I'm not very comfortable facing them, however.
It's a beautiful day in the neighborhood!
Think I'll stroll into Boystown tonight and see what the festivities are like this year - it's always the part of Halloween I enjoy. Great costumes all around.
Will somebody please swat that gnat. Thanks.
Like Justin said, keep swimming, folks. No bites, ok?
David: It's Edward Lear, no? Personally, I finished reading his Cryptonomicon yesterday, and while that was great, I still think The Diamond Age is his best work (I've also read Snow Crash). All of his books are filled with great language and neat technical bits, but I think only TDA really invokes the Deep Thoughts (at least in me).
Harlan's living room indeed. Would that Herr Ellison ever got near a computer, to justify calling this virtual space such a thing.
I would suggest that HE (as you all fondly, and with some religiousity, refer to Him) is only involved in this wonderland to the extent that the webmaster prints off occasional data for HE's perusal, probably whilst sitting on the can. That, and banking online submitted monies for the Harlan Ellison royalty-hunt fund.
Being a Luddite is an admirable thing, actually, although whether it's due to a true ethos, or simply a reflection of HE's inability to evolve as a personality or a writer, is an open question.
But back to coffee...
>But as somebody said in an earlier post, this is Rick's and Harlan's living room. There is no need to cause a conmotion here. Anybody who hasn't the guts to sign his name to his opinions...<
Ok, "Alejandro." Seeing as how there's no way to authenticate anyone's real identity on this board, but that you are nonetheless disturbed by obvious aliases (which in a way are more honest about their subterfuge than so-called real names), how about I sign off as "Patrick Ellman?" Believable enough for you?
Patrick Ellman
Lynn: thanks for the heads-up on the chocolate stuff -- like others on this board, the only recipe I have for Ellison's coffee is so old that it still advocates freeze-dried Maxim, a notion I find fairly abhorrent, so I have never tried the Diabolique. I DO love the Mexican chocolate, though, especially on cold afternoons...and if you're a chocoholic, I'll send you a recipe for a chocolate mousse loaf with raspberry sauce that'll just take years off your life.
Regarding fear...in the early seventies, I was living in Madrid, Spain, during the last few years of the Franco regime. A fascist government, yes, but one that was in place for so long that the general populace seemed fairly inured to the whole idea of sudden violence. At one point, I was walking by the university area when a student protest broke out. Within seconds, the area was filled with members of the Guardia Civil, Franco's heavily-armed shock troops. They seemed to appear out of nowhere, but really fast! They had the students surrounded in nothing flat, and the students simply put up their hands and submitted to arrest as though it were the most natural thing in the world. The interesting thing about the whole incident was the ALL the bystanders treated the presence of the soldiers with complete aplomb...they noticed their arrival, stopped what they were doing (even the street vendors!) and walked very calmly to a "safe" distance and waited for things to clear before resuming whatever they were doing before. It seemed to me then (and now) that perhaps we as humans can become accustomed to any situation to the point that fear per se just can't be sustained...we eventually get used to the situation and no longer fear it. Does that make sense/help at all?
and Todd: the Southwest is warm and wonderful, come on down! BUT, if you move to the Phoenix area, and run into some youngster with wild eyes, a notebook, and a machine gun, be ready to feed him peanut butter until he's calm...that'll be our pal Justin.
Michael
Oh, man, Lynn --
If you're talking about instances of great fear in "certain segments of the population" across the globe, the choices are manifold: Rwanda in 1994, Bosnia in 1995 (highly recommend a book by English free-lance journalist and heroin addict Anthony Loyd called _My War Gone By, I Miss It So_), Chechnya at roughly the same time.... Life under Idi Amin in Uganda certainly couldn't have been a bed of roses in the 70s.
If you're looking for instances of fear in the U.S., the pickings are a bit slimmer. Certain slices of the population certainly were very uncomfortable during the McCarthy Red Scare period in the 1950s. And I wouldn't have wanted to be a black person in the South back then, either.
Nah, Ray, I wouldn't bother. Anybody who hasn't the guts to sign his name to his opinions doesn't deserve one iota of our attention. He's free to post whatever he wants wherever he wants. But as somebody said in an earlier post, this is Rick's and Harlan's living room. There is no need to cause a conmotion here. Just show the gentleman (woman) kindly to the door.
Hey, Todd:
Would there be any chance you might be able to make copies of your "Ellison bootleg" -- preferably in old-fashioned tape cassette form? I'd happily reimburse your expenses. As for something to trade, well ... we'd have to talk privately.
I'm about 60 pages into Neal Stephenson's _The Diamond Age_, and like _Snow Crash_, I am loving it! Every page brings new ideas, metaphors, and doohickeys of the future -- it's like watching fireworks or going to a circus. Just the simple rendering of a guy at a desk with a pile of papers that stopped me cold for a second before I realized what the narrator was talking about -- "Hackworth put Cotton's document atop the Runcible stack and guillotined it against the desktop a couple of times..." -- can bring a smile of admiration to this reader's face.
By the way, I automatically assumed the project name, Runcible, was from Lewis Carroll (this is within a future mini-society modeled on the Victorians; they're known colloquially as "Vickies"), but in typing the above I suddenly realized the true source of the name....
Wow. As to the Matted Bisquick, would that I could be so bored with such brilliant wit and genuine kindness every day of my life. At least this one is a literate troll.
I have a question for you good folk. I'm trying to write a piece about fear. Not anxiety, not tension, not Halloween fright, but honest to god fear. And in writing this piece, I'm trying to play back in my head all the times in the last century when fear dominated and permeated certain segments of the population. There are the obvious examples surrounding the Holocaust and the bombing of Japan, but I'm racking my brains for more subtle exampes. The jungles of Vietnam, the quiet war in Argentina, the townships in South Africa. I think I may have set the bar too high by desiring a fresh, palable sort of fear, untainted by despair or resignation, untempered by nationalism or the sheer weight of time. (For example, one would think that living under the Taliban regime hasn't been a picnic, and that the common people of Afghanistan have known a good deal of fear. I watched a piece on National Geographic the other night that had a camera crew and interviewer flinching to dive for cover while interviewing a ten-year old boy *who didn't even blink* at the sound of mortar fire. What the camera crew felt was fear. But what the boy felt? Who knows.)
If you'd like to take this to private email, but I'm perfectly willing to discuss this further here.
Cheers, and happy troll-baiting,
L.
For Halloween, I'm going as the old Chicago Stockyards, myself.
I gotta tell you, I’m having a great day all by myself here at work. All my fellow employees are wondering what they hell I’m listening to so intently with my headphones on…being that a big grin is cracking my face in half for the past two hours.
The joy of downsizing is that I have known my date of departure for the past year and a half. My main duty is to shut down our systems because our big new owner company spits upon them. So that’s what I’m doing…..and as that April 2002 date approaches, and as many of my co-workers leave as their special dates arrive, it is getting quieter and quieter around here and for the first time in my life I have put on headphones at work.
But not to listen to some CD on a walkman…oh no no no. I am listening to Harlan speak at the 2001 I-Con. Yes…prior to attending the third I-Con (and 5th Harlan convention appearance in all) I’ve ever been to, I said to myself…and my wife but she never pays attention to me so it was really to myself…I said to myself “Hey, I’m buying myself one of those teeny tiny tape microcassette tape recorder thingees so I can preserve the 3 days of joy listening to Harlan run the island.” After all, every time we see him we wish there was some video or tape for sale afterward to bring back those memories….and every time we see him we see numbers of audience members taping him.
So I bought one of those suckers, and though I will probably have no other use for it in my life it has already paid dividends because I sat in row 1, or 2, or 1.5 (you had to be there) and taped (except for when it came time to read Incognita, Inc., then off went the tape per his request). I am now listening to these tapes for the first time, here at “work” and man are they wonderful.
The wife has never read Harlan, but she will drop anything to go with me to see him speak. In fact, I’ve been debating a move to Phoenix AZ when this whole employment thing ends (and before that “piss-off money-package” runs out) and she whines “but we’ll miss Harlan at I-Con if we leave the East Coast." To which, I calm her down and remind her that Phoenix is so much closer to Harlan’s stomping grounds that I am sure as shit that we will be able to attend some of his west coast appearances. Then she calms down and all is fine with the world.
So anyway, I’m having a great day doing nothing at work today. Just thought I would share that. The man is telling his Algerian camel joke now, so I must go.
-TODD
So, what are you all going to be for Halloween?
I'm gonna be a ghost. Mom cut holes in my sheet and bleached out all the urine stains.
-TODD
I forgot to add the footnote to my post: *Said with tongue firmly in cheek. Yawn, indeed.
Yawn.
Calling on Joseph, Alejandro and all other Chicago Guys:
We gotta find this gutless scumbag,The Masked Puke, and give him the beating he so richly deserves.
Nobody take the bait. I mean it now.
You would think that a writer of Peter David's stature, which is to say his relatively large amount of fame and success in both the comics and sci-fi worlds, would have enough sense of himself to not so embarrassingly suck-up to the long-dying, turgid myth of Harlan Ellison.
Harlan was, and probably still is, a damn fine writer (given that he spends most of his time now trying to hustle royalties from decades-old work, it's hard to assess his current craft). Like Norman Mailer, whom he shamelessly emulates, he long-ago learned that the best road to success in the competitive writing biz is through notoriety and combativeness. And to give the man credit to his instincts, he hasn't mellowed out.
But so much of Ellison's shtick is dated, juvenile posturing that has long run its course. The recent speaking event at MIT, which David attended as well and wrote about in CBG, is a prime example of how lame the whole Ellison-as-agitator routine has become. David doesn't help by writing in almost-biblical tones about it all.
Gee, Harlan likes to rant at audiences. And yes, isn't Harlan so much smarter than MIT students? Can't they all learn from him, if they'd only try? Wow, isn't the guy in the audience who said he knew nothing so ultimately wise? Har har, Harlan later name-drops in a restaurant and convinces an old lady he's a director. What a card. More to the point, what a bore.
And Peter David, who's not as great a writer but still can turn a phrase, should really know better than to be the number one Harlan Ellison acolyte. It's a new century guys...Harlan had his run. His brand of in-your-face, I'm smarter than you authorial pose is just not as funny or enervating as it once was. It has become pathetic in its predictability and obviousness. And Peter David's sycophancy and fawning columns about Harlan and his yucks don't look much better.
The Masked Bishop
Justin: toasting the bread into hard charred bricks of ash is fine if the bread starts out stale, however if you're using fresh bread, then you should get some of that super-duper chunky, 99% whole peanuts, capable of destroying any orthodontia not reinforced with titaniun peanut butter and apply it thus.
You dip the butcher knife into the peanut butter and carve out a large bread shaped slab. As you spread the peanut butter on both pieces of bread, be sure to apply enough pressure to disintigrate the bread's stuctural integrity, thus ensuring a proper blending of bread and peanut butter. You then spread a layer of jelly on each hand, either by dipping your hands into the jar or you can use the knife if you want (fingers that come off in this process are best used as a garnish for the sandwich). Jelly in hand, you scoop up each globular mass of PB and bread, one in each hand, and alternate biting into each one.
Oh yeah, be sure to count your teeth after you're done, check for any new gaps. When you're snacking on the PB it's hard to tell if you've bitten down on a peanut or if a peanut has bitten down on a tooth.
---Peter
Michael & Bill G~
Brick chocolate & Mexican chocolate are NOT the same thing. Abuelita, among other brands, is designed to be dissolved in warm to hot milk and is spiced heavily with cinnamon. It has an almost granular texture to it that makes it difficult to dissolve. It makes excellent hot chocolate, if you don't mind pouring scalding milk into a blender, but it shouldn't be substituted for brick chocolate, at least in most baking recipes.
Having never SEEN the "Diabolique" recipe, I couldn't tell you whether or not it might work as a substitute. Most recipes that call for brick chocolate offer up normal chocolate chips as a substitute, which leaves a world of possibilities open perhaps not thought of when the original recipe was written. I might suggest Ghiradelli's Dark Chocolate chips for such a drink (she said, guesstimating with the knowledge that it is a coffee substitute and not a malt shop beverage). But again, never having SEEN said recipe, I can not say for certain.
Yours in cocoa-mania,
L.
(I don't know why the last post didn't include this...)
********HEATHER!!!!!*********
If you received the package, post something here--I tried to email you, but it appears your yahoo account is down. (And even if you don't know what I'm talking about, just let us know you're all right, got it?)
Okay, somone help me here, please. What's the difference between brick chocolate and those unsweetened chocolate baking squares you can get in any grocery store?
Confused,
Joseph
Bill Gauthier: Brick chocolate, it can be a bitch to find...what I have been using is a Mexican product that is usually available in the supermarket in the "imported foods" area...BUT, I'm a lot closer to that border down here than you are up there. It's a chocolate drink product that comes in packages of six octagonal bricks that are hard as hell, named "Abuelita" and packaged in a bright yellow box. Surely some store in your area will have this stuff...as I recall, my mother was able to find it when I was a boy growing up in Newton. If not, drop me a line...
Justin: funny, funny boy. I GAVE you that recipe, remember?
Allow me to second Rob's morbid curiosity on "Robocop." The movie is beyond muddled, but it possesses one of the most outré scenes in a bathroom that I have ever seen on film (discounting Kubrick's obsession). That scene is a mystifying narcotic, despite ludicrous dialogue and staging directly inspired by the Royal Bulwer-Lytton Company's twelve hour theatrical production of "Nicholas and the Nicked Nickels," probably attributable to the underrated talent of Miguel Ferrer. But the salacious part of me would like to think that the appeal extended beyond that.
Yeah, right, that's just what New York needs - another damned World Series win. They only have over 30% of all the ones ever played - they need more, more, more. Greedy pigs.
I loved New York for about a week after the attacks. Then I got back to hating it and every team associated with it. After all, we can't let the terrorists change what's important in our culture!
Ah, one more thing: Today I registered for the Ed Bryant Speculative Fiction Writing Workshop I mentioned a few posts ago. Some of you may recall earlier this year when I asked Harlan about writing programs, and he had some very nice things to say about the workshops Mr. Bryant does.
I've never done a writing workshop before. I'm not entirely certain what to expect, what to bring, or how to properly prepare. When I registered for the workshop, no additional information was provided, hence my befuddlement. Would anyone care to help me out here? Thanks in advance.
J
Nonsense, nonsense, nonsense. Nuke 'em till they glow, then use the bodies to light the perimeter, that's what I say!
BAHAHAHA! Learned that one on the FTX. Clever, no?
Lynn- Thanks for the advice on the FTX issues. I actually did bring along some pogie bait, and it lasted about one day. Next time I'll bring more. They put packs of Jolly Ranchers in the MREs now, and I was fortunate enough to get one. Now THOSE things are the real prize. You'd be amazed at how much one little Jolly Rancher is worth out in the field. I hoarded half of the little gems for myself, though. They're good to suck on when you're made to stand around like a dumbass for a half hour and desperately need some kind of diversion.
Michael- I'd be happy to trade recipies. The pumpkin bars sound good. I'm afraid I only have one recipie to share with the board, but it's a classic I'm sure all can benefit from.
All you need is:
Enough money to buy:
2 slices of bread
1 jar of peanut butter
1 jar of jelly
and
1 flimsy plastic knife from Yokohama Rice Bowl
Take the two slices of bread and put them in the toaster.
Somehow manage to burn them blacker than sin.
Take the knife and plunge it into the jar of peanut butter. You should have a gooey chunk of PB when you pry the knife out again.
Proceed to smear the peanut butter indiscriminately over the charred surface of one slice of bread, taking great care to ensure that you do not spread it evenly.
Stick the knife in your mouth and lick off the peanut butter.
Plunge the knife, smeared with the slimy remnants of peanut butter mixed with spit, into the jar of jelly. Be certain that a sufficient amount of peanut butter remains are transferred from the knife and mixed in with the jelly.
Smear the jelly lazily on the other shrivelled bit of toast.
Slap the two sides together hard enough that you can hear them crunch, and cause black crumbs spray onto the counter.
Leave the crumbs for the ants.
Enjoy!
J
What PA really meant to say is, "Don't make me stop this bulletin board..." I actually used that on my parents one Thanksgiving when I was home from college. I was two steps from walking on the whole holiday thing because they couldn't stop sniping at each other. In a fit of madness, I interrupted them both (over the turkey carcass with a fistful of stuffing) and shouted, "Don't make me stop this kitchen. Cause I will. I'll turn this kitchen right around and you won't get any turkey till EASTER!" It cracked everyone one up and they were all nice to each other the rest of the holidays. Well, that year anyway.
L.
Ahem.
Hey. Haven't been on here in a while, and boy, did I miss some smack. Not that I'm usually the voice of reason, but can I make a suggestion? Let's not feed the trolls. We're not in school anymore; no one has to read anything they don't want to. If you know a poster annoys you, why not skip their posts and save yourself some time?
Bottom line: I personally have found this board to be a haven for intelligent conversation and rational discussion. Can we maintain that? That does not mean "Be nice" or "Stifle yourself." It means, can we have a little compassion here? Isn't the nature of the Heather situation clear to you all now? What's the point of bitching about her, really? Or sniping at each other in a not-very-constructive manner?
Can you tell I'm a teacher? All I have to say now is, "Do I have to separate you two? Control yourself, buster." Somewhere in Binghamton, a bunch of my students' ears are ringing and they don't know why...
The Bermanator
PS--Not only am I a long-time Yankee fan, but I think NYC could use a nice, happy parade right about now. Go Yankees. Go NY.
Rick,
O Maven of making things run smoothly, I just happened to notice that there is still a CD cover contest link up on the homepage. Jusdt thought ya might like to know.
Regards,
Joseph, freezing and windblown here in Chicago
Joseph,
Outside of being blown down Michigan Avenue by the hawk this afternoon, I’m doin’ ok.
Meandering on this board bothers me also. It is hard enough to scroll through all the hyperbole. If we have something to say, at least make it relevent, and interesting.
The jazz and baseball talk if for those people who are interested in such, if it bothers someone then why comment about it? Harlan has commented about both subjects himself, so does that make him a part of the dulled hurd? Me thinks not, even though I am still right about my movie posing. lol.
Ray,
Ah, geez-crimeney. I hadn't gotten around to counting the ex-Cubs for the Series yet. Sure, go ahead and break my heart on the shoals of Yankee dominance, why dont'cha! All right, I'm revising my prediction to the Yankees winning in 6, with a small (30%) possibility of the Diamondbacks winning in 7.
Doing pretty well here. How you doing?
Regards,
Joseph
P.S. True, there is Jerry Manuel's Manager of the Year award to look forward to in the off season (well, for the second half of the season, at least).
Ray,
I gotta admit that, while I'd like see the Yankees get stomped, I'm not horribly hopeful about it. I just wish it was someone other than Bob "Old School Baseball" Brenly and his D'Backs, that were preparing for their imminent demise.
Sigh,
Andrew
Joseph,
In rooting for the D’Backs I trust you took in to account the never-been-wrong ex-Cub factor.The D’Backs have, count ‘em, FOUR. The Yankees, none, zero, zippo, nada. Therefore the Yankess are a lead-pipe cinch to win. I just didn't want to see your heartbroken. Yes, I know, I am very sensitive that way.
Right on, Andrew.
We still got the hot stove league to look forward to. Hey, Joseph, howyadoin'?
Joseph,
Just remember, spring training is only 4 months away. :-)
-Andrew
P.S. Plus we've got all that off season scuttlebutt to worry about. -AR
David~ Here's your answer to the question of whether or not domestic terrorists are involved in the anthrax attacks:
http://www.msnbc.com/news/647541.asp?pne=msn
Mark Z.~ Thanks, I think. Passion has always been my downfall, and I get bored with semantics and artful dodgery. I'm too wrapped up in trying to find a solution. It's just my nature. But I'd rather live 110% in this world, loving and hating with every fiber of my being, than be a sheep who either spouts or resists the partyline strictly because it is what they feel they are supposed to do. And I do tend to think for myself, which would account for the muddled nature of my arguments sometimes.
And you're right about the mix. I may steal the analogy of a laminate being stronger than a single material. That's a good one.
Take it easy,
L.
No, Rob, no! I really DON'T have any idea what David Gerrold's been up to the last two -- even two and a half -- decades. As I've told you guys many times, I don't read much SciFi/Fantasy, and in response to the URL you posted, I offer the following as a more representative picture of what interests me in terms of Books:
http://www.allreaders.com/ProfileView.asp?Name=David+Loftus&TopicID=3450
and in terms of Films:
http://www.allwatchers.com/ProfileView.asp?Name=David+Loftus&TopicID=3754
Before two months ago, I had never read a William Gibson or Neal Stephenson novel, so the reviews of their books linked to the page you cited are brand new. (I've just started reading _The Diamond Age_). I'm purposely trying to boost my SF/F review totals on these Web sites of late.
But you must forgive me if I become a bit distracted; I just learned this morning that I'm going to be on "Who Wants to be a Millionaire." They're flying me and the missuz out to Manhattan for a taping on Nov. 5....
David Gerrold has also written a very interesting series (for those of you who can stomach SF series) called WAR AGAINST THE CHTORR. These mostly came out in the 80's, though one or two may have come out in the 90's. They were very well done, and I know that there is supposed to be at least one more book some day. I believe some of the titles were A RAGE FOR REVENGE and A DAY FOR DAMNATION and I can't remember the others. There were 4 so far (I think....it's been ages since I read them).
Oh.....Go Yanks! Dynasty! Dynasty!
-TODD
And just a reminder, that you all now have about 7 months of baseball free Bulletin Board browsing where you won't hear Ray and I rambling on about baseball. So there.
Regards,
Joseph J. Finn
P.S. Go Diamondbacks.
David,
(lol)
I got a sense you knew something about what Gerrold's cranked out in the last 20 years as I stumbled across your self-touting 'scholar' site centering around Gerrold and a film list of dubious quality.
Ladies and gents, this one's on me: http://www.allscifi.com/ProfileView.asp?Name=David+Loftus&TopicID=94
As you may know his recent Heinlein-inspired opus is 'Jumping off the Planet' and 'Bouncing off the Moon', in part sort of a SF version of Jack n'the Beanstalk (referring to the completed atmosphere-breaching transport tube); I believe in the 80's he did 'Encounter at Farpoint' and 'Space Skimmer'. He still does tv scripts now and then; he did a 'New Twilight Zone' back when Harlan was working on the show.
If you can grab 'Again, Dangerous Visions' you should read Gerrold's 'With a Finger in my I'; charming, hilarious stuff. I told Gerrold once I lived through scenarios like that. You'll see what I mean.
And you guys dumping on Heather:
David's absolutely right. Considering how vacuous your contributions to the board have been you have no high towers to talk down from. Further, and you probably realize this, self-indulgent ramblings here is a prerogative; since a cursory glance protects a reader from a yawn that post of yours reads like a needless immature potshot. In other words, if you don't like it don't read it.
If ya wanna criticize, make it constructive (advice like self-editing if you really want people to read your post).
Dan Thorne:
It is now my turn. Ditto! Amen! Hallelujah! High-five! No, YOU da’ man!
Whowasit said "Brevity is the soul of wit."?
Okay, this is going to sound stupid, real stupid, but I have to ask. I'm hoping _someone_ here will know. I have almost all the essential ingredients to make Cafe Ellison Diabolique except one: brick chocolate. I have looked for the motherfriggin' stuff _everywhere_ and cannot find it. Is there a substitute? Am I looking in the wrong aisle at the local grocery store? My wife, my family, everyone thinks I'm nuts looking for two years for something just to try a drink.
Thanks in advance.
Hi again:
Well, David, you did indeed rouse the rabble -- of which also am a rolling stone. I really agree with the content of Lynne's post, though her passion and that of others will play into the sophisticated hands of your argumentative powers. I do believe we're -- the vast most of us -- on the same side here, though your role be advocate for the skepticy and Lynn's be that of homeland footsoldier. I, We, desperately need both of you, because we really DO need to be doing this now, and we really DO need to keep from whitewashing the motives of those we were castigating just two months ago. Composite materials are always the strongest; the monolithic dream-cultures like the Pure Islamic State, The Reich, The New Soviet Man, have only brief, bloody flings, while it's the mongrel cultures who endure -- to the extent that they are self-aware. I'm trying to prize a good thing from the rancor here, because I feel our danger and our worth.
And a comment on e-space: We are in Harlan's living room. This is a party he is throwing out of the goodness of his resources, most definitely NOT comparable to standing on the streetcorner or yakking on the phone. Hard-drive space is finite, as is Harlan's time which he uses checking in here, to our great honor. But there is no subscription, no limited membership; the door is open to the street and any nitwit can walk in, have a beer, and leave. Harlan and his bouncer Rick have accepted this as a minor cost and we are all made much the richer for it.
What I am getting around to is: If our host opines that fur-covered bananas are becoming a tiring topic, don't puff up and start on about free speech and Harlan's being its great defender and so forth. Act as someone in someone else's living room. Be polite. Apologize. Don't soil the carpet. And if you must have a beer and split, thank the host at least.
Mark Z
Nicely written, Dan. Nicely spoken. I'm usually more the "hit on the head and froth at the mouth" type of respondee to folks like Mr. Loftus.....but your eloquence elicits a big "Yazza!" from me.
The most boring internet argument in the world is: You have no right to say what you say because you don't post as much as I do.
The second most boring internet argument in the world is: If you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all. Why? Why must I hold in anything that isn't nice.....I would need years of therapy if I didn't let loose once in awhile.
Not that Heather ever bothered me....I'm new to this board, but I skim all the baseball (no Yankee fans...bah!), jazz, snottily sophisticated title dropping of favorite books and musicians as well as rambling Heather notes. She can ramble all she wants. So can David. So can anyone who wants to bitch and moan about it.
Demutualization? You wouldn't happen to work for my old alma mater Prudential (they sold my portion to Aetna, and I will be unceremoniously dumped with a wonderful separation package this coming April)?
-TODD
Frankly, Dave I'm disappointed in you. Disappointed because you left yourself open to what I'm about to say, and it's something I've not normally seen you do.
While you may think Dwayne and mine's comments were harsh, I would point out that The Man himself has rebuked Heather on more than one occasion. But rather than go after The Man, and I daresay your case even there is weak given the incessant rambling of the person in question, you chose to go after the strawmen. Chickenshit? Indeed, sir, I point you to the nearest mirror.
I hold no grudges nor ill will towards anyone. But Dwayne's comments were right on the money, and if the truth hurts, then so be it. Sometimes people need an occasional nudge that says, "Hey, lookee here! Look at your behavior." Is it friendly or polite? Maybe not. But other attempts were made before mine and Dwayne's to point out the all-too-frequently annoying rambling of her postings, and I didn't see you rushing in then where angels fear to tread. Clearly she wasn't getting the message that sometimes brevity and restraint are a more effective means of communication.
Furthermore, the fact that you would do a search on our messages to discover our infrequency of posting, then attempt to use it as a club is simply bass-ackwards reasoning, not "self-centered and fatuous" as you allege. I submit to you that there are certain people who post frequently because THEY are the self-centered and fatuous ones, not the ones who post infrequently. They get off on constantly posting their every thought hoping that Harlan will read their utterances, and perhaps reward them with praise to feed their egos. They may do it under the guise of contributing an intellectual dialogue, but I think anyone with common sense can see when the emperor has no clothes (or when the emperor has vomited while on his gold chamber pot, whichever the case may be).
Finally, the answer to the mystery as to why I don't contribute here more frequently is…(drumroll please) I simply don't have the time. Don't believe it? Allow me to elucidate. This is my 31st day in a row without a day off. Correction: This is my 31st 13-hour day in a row in a cubicle where I am entering 21,000 lines of financial history into a data base so that my employer may return $13 million to our customers due to the demutualization of the company that employs me. This is my 31st day in a row where the only time I have to myself (aside from the late evening when I selfishly take it upon myself to sleep and do laundry or buy groceries or attend to the other necessary minutiae that one must do in order to live ) is 30 minutes a day for lunch (which I have just used up replying to you).
Hopefully, you may now be able to hang up your deerstalker cap and rest easily knowing that one more mystery of the world has been solved.
Thank you for listening, and good day, sir!
That's a perfect example of an idiot post with no substance. Please go back to lurking if this is all that you can add.
I also found Heather's posts meandering and sometimes boring. But I skipped over those with a simple roll of the mouse wheel, just like I skip over the jazz and baseball discussions on this board since I am interested in neither.
Pretend, just pretend that this is like real life. Try to have some tact. And anyway, at least her heart was in the right place.
Dear Mr. Loftus:
Thank you for your misdirected anger and totally off-the-mark remarks.
David~ Touché. Perhaps there are other solutions other than diplomatic ones. Forgive me if I am of the mindset that if you don't like what's being done, step up and suggest an alternative with a greater potential for success (success being: bad guys caught and punished, innocents fed and clothed, functioning democratic solution in place that respects all ethnic and religious combinations equally).
Of course, then again, we could always just ignore it and hope it goes away. That's always an option.
Truthfully, David. I am open to hearing your suggestions as to how we should unsnarl this, the political equivalent of trying to comb out Medusa's hair after she's been on a three-day bender.
Respectfully yours,
L.
Whilst I too have found Heather's multiple, meandering posts tiresome and cutesy at times, and often not worthy of more than a cursory glance -- thinking to myself that she could use a little restraint and self-editing -- I also found it easy to scroll past most of her material, and feel the need, if not to defend her exactly, at least to state that Dan's and Dwayne's posts this morning were unnecessarily harsh.
For one thing, it's a time-honored practice on the Web for lurkers to rebuke more active members for "not doing enough for them." Time-honored, but not honorable. The way to elevate the level of discussion on a newsgroup or bulletin board, gentlemen, is not to shame or insult others, but to get in there and introduce more worthwhile, substantive topics. Criticizing other folks without putting yourself on the line is -- not to put too fine a point on it -- chickenshit.
I did a quick search of this bulletin board and its archive over the past year, and found that neither of you has been a particularly sterling contributor to this forum.
Dwayne has posted almost nothing since LAST October. Dan has generated a little more traffic, though roughly half of it related to resting on his laurels by recalling the incident when he met Ellison and was arrested.
This bulletin board does not exist for the mere entertainment of you couch potatoes. If you haven't been contributing a lot to the content, then I find it self-centered and fatuous of you to attack someone else who has tried.
I go on a bit myself here, and I worry about annoying and irritating people, which is why I mix up the topics of my posts, try to return to Ellison on a regular basis, and now and then even purposely go quiet for a few days.
To end on a more pleasant note, let me point everyone to a quiet nook of this very Web site I had never seen before, and only discovered 10 minutes ago while searching the site map for the archive. The link to it appears at the very bottom of Rick's table of contents. It's silly things like this (and what happens when you click on the "placard" at the top of the Home Page) as much as the very real Ellisonian info, that make this site such a winner:
http://harlanellison.com/gallery/images/homerslp.jpg
David, Re: "sliding down the razor blade of life"...
Oh, yeah, I recognize that, all right...FROM THE LAST TWENTY YEARS OF MY LIFE, MAN!!
*ahem*
sorry. My teeth hurt.
anyone want my recipe for pumpkin bars?
Michael "I Have No Teeth And I Must Scream"
I reread David Gerrold's early charmer, _When Harlie Was One_, yesterday (finished it up this morning on the bus commute to work), and had forgotten that HE is referenced in it.
On page 183, when Auberson and HARLIE are talking about the nature of love, the former types, "There was a writer once who said that luv ain't nothing but sex misspelled. I used to think he was being cynical, but he wasn't. He was really complaining about the semantic problem -- people who think that love is step three and sex is step four. It's really the other way around."
Now I know, of course, that Gerrold and Ellison have been buds, but I wonder whether they had met by the time Gerrold had written the above passage. (It's entirely possible, I suppose; both of them had written episodes for the original Star Trek.)
I also have no idea what Gerrold has been writing the past 20 years. I loved Harlie, and to a lesser extent _The Man Who Folded Himself_, but I haven't read anything else of his because my "science fiction phase" lasted only a few short years and then I mostly moved on. Where has his work gone since?
(One other thing: I THINK Gerrold also quotes another favorite of mine, Tom Lehrer, on p. 165 where Auberon thinks to himself "...sliding down the razor blade of life...." The only place I've ever heard that phrase is in Lehrer's song "Bright College Days." Anybody recognize it from anywhere else?)
Lynn:
This is what annoys me about these discussions: people put arguments/solutions in my mouth instead of simply responding to what I actually say, and feel they have to make personal attacks/suppositions about my behavior ("haven't you been reading the news at all?" "you're more out there than I previously thought") as well.
There is a world of options between war and diplomatic solutions. Your government wants you to forget about them by making the situation look like an all-or-nothing, up-or-down, yes-or-no, binary proposition. Good way to discourage innovative (never mind subversive) thought among the citizenry.
I have not BEGUN to discuss potential solutions, and yet you persist in acting as if I have.
Dwayne,
Ditto! Amen! Hallelujah! High-five! You da man!
Always lurking (formerly always lurking and damn annoyed),
Dan
Can it REALLY be true (he exclaimed as he rubbed his eyes in astonishment). Did I just read Heather say she was "outta here"? Lordy, lordy, one can only hope she means, forever! As a longtime lurker I gotta say this board hasn’t been the same since looney-tune Heather hijacked it for use as her own personal, daily diary. All-Heather-All-The-Time. Maybe she should have her own cable channel, too. The "It’s All About Me, Ain’t I Clever." channel. YAWN.
Doc: I've been screwed once by a seller on half.com, and all I did was communicate with the nice folk on staff at half and they got me my money back. No harm, no foul on their part. The only crappy part was that I had ordered Sam Maio's THE BURNING OF LOS ANGELES -- excellent metrical poet, great guy, wonderful teacher -- and never got it. I would have prefered the book to the money.
---Peter
Harlan,
When you’re back n’ about I has a question. Strictly small talk stuff. Feel welcome to pass on it, by all means; that’ll be absolument bien.
Since I blew it so horribly the other night, I need to be discreet here. In no way is this meant as an obstinate retreading or annoying fixation or an intent to bicker, but rather a request to be enlightened by an experienced source. Promise.
I praised Verhoeven’s film the other night on the basis of its satirical elements; what had worked for me in spite of weaknesses. I liked the pokes it took at Corporate America and the god-awful tabloid-drenched local news we put with on the Holy Tube. It’s hardly Swift but it’s the only ‘comic book’ movie I’ve seen with that kind of an edge. I also thought Peter Weller was excellent in his role. I did not like the over-the-top, nauseating violence; I dislike drawn out humiliating torture scenes. But I made the allowances. Possibly because of my weakness for camp.
Anyway, that’s my own angle on the flick.
What I think would be interesting is getting your own. How did the film fail for you? What aspects, to your mind, needed retooling? In the approach it took with its themes what, for you, would have justified the material? In short, what would’ve made Verhoeven’s RoboCop a much better film?
I know pointless over-the-top violence gets on your nerves (I recall a review you did on ‘The Omen’ in Future Life). As it often can with me. Was this film too exploitative?
Anyway, I was just curious for the sake of cinematic small-talk to obliterate 5 minutes. Thought your take on these elements would be interesting. M’five minutes is done with. And I absolutely thanks ya fer yer time.
Oh, and David? There is no diplomatic solution when dealing with people who don't know the value of human life, as demonstrated on September 11th. They don't know the value of their own life, the lives of their countrymen, or the lives of anyone who opposes them. And they are NOT a government. I repeat, they have violently put down any attempts to institute government services and have kept the people of Afghanistan at bay by nothing more than pure terror. They are a loosely conglomerated bunch of zealots and warlords whose idea of "justice" is an afternoon at the football stadium, playing splatter paints with PEOPLE'S BRAINS. And their solution to our objections to this this practice? Well, if the international community wants them to play football in that stadium, then we'd best send them money to build a place to hold their public executions.
Do you honestly believe there is any kind of diplomatic solution that would work with these sociopathetic maniacs? If you do, you're even more out there than I previously believed.
Respectfully,
L.
Rob~ For a deeper understanding of how little we as Americans know what is going on in the chess game between Bin Laden and the moderate Muslim world, please read the attached article by Robert Wisnovsky (assistant professor of Islamic intellectual history at Harvard University, where he teaches Islamic philosophy and theology and classical Arabic).
http://slate.msn.com/culturebox/entries/01-10-23_117735.asp
It's not and it never will be as simple as "a franchise of 'Kill Everyone Born an American'" as you so succinctly put, and to believe otherwise is to reveal just how euro/ameri-centric we are. How blind we are to thousands of years of history and religion and politics on the side of the planet that doesn't speak our language. Please don't buy into the canned explanation that the media has decided makes a nice sound bite.
I agree that what these people did is beyond evil, and that we need to go in and "dismantle with prejudice" these terrorists camps, but what are we going to do when the camps in Afghanistan have all relocated over the border into Kashmir. Anyone pondered that? Gods I hope that someone more apt than myself at political maneuvering and seeing three moves ahead is paying attention. Because if its this obvious to me (the one who has to cheat mercilessly to prevail at checkers), beneath the surface has to be a thousand times more confusing.
Heather/Nia~ I really don't know what your deal is, sister. I have a feeling it has something to do with high drama. I think I could more readily solve whatever problem you have for me if I had a better idea of just what it is you want. And until you know what it is that you want, I can't help you. All I asked is that you not spam these nice people with the address for my site. I do my own advertising when and where I deem it acceptable, and this forum is not it. Please keep comin' round that thread you started on my site, and when I get a moment, I promise I'll keep writing with you. I'm truthfully interested in seeing how that character bio I started comes out. And I have no one else to thank/blame but you. Both Lance & myself have confessed a certain difficulty in writing since Sept. 11, and you are largely responsible for cracking that firmament. So suck it up, girl. Hugs.
L.
David,
I've tried to keep quiet on this issue here. But, your commentary has driven me to post.
First, while I would agree that the bomb dropped on Nagasaki was overkill, the bomb dropped on Hiroshima likely saved many more lives than it took. I do agree with you however, on Dresden. The fire bombing of Dresden was reprehensible.
Second, I don't know what sources you've been paying attention to, but there has been quite a bit of evidence presented in regard to the guilt of Bin Laden and the "network" he is a part of. The Taliban is hardly guiltless either.
Finally, to equate Bin Laden, Al Qaida (sp?), the Taliban and anyone else who have had a hand in this, with simple criminals, seems to leave the impression that they (the perpetrators) are more like simple bank robbers, as opposed to the rotten, evil, slimy bastards they really are. How do you intend to deal with them? Do you honestly think that the Taliban would seriously consider handing over these cretins?
I'm sure, like most of the wonderful folks (you included, no sarcasm intended) who post here, that I have been taking what the government and the media tell us with a grain of salt. I tend to read between the lines. And while I always hope for the best, I tend to expect the worst.
And David, one last thing, I have a feeling that there will not be a lot of agreement on this board regarding this issue (or many others). No matter what, I do value all the opinions and viewpoints presented here (although I may not agree with them). No harm, no foul. ;-)
-Andrew
I'm starting to get ready for Madcon in Madison this weekend. It's my birthday present to myself, I hit the big 50 Saturday. I can't think of a better way to spend it than to get to see Harlan in action along with Peter David and Neil Gaiman. I've been saving my copy of The Voice from the Edge and City of Darkness to listen to along the way. Just one more day of work and i'm on my way. Roger
Be advised, all -- one of the sellers at Bibliofind/Half.com jiggered me on a purchase. More as things develope...
Cheers,
Doc
Nia's post is mine.
You win. As you were. I'm outta here.
Thanks, Rick.
Heather
The Taliban are kept in power by bin Laden’s machinery; they’re trying to use martydom as fly paper, to lure us in and drive moderates to their side, rallying anti-western sentiment. What choice do we have but to oblige them? They have such a powerful brainwashing apparatus, cranking out children filled with blind, ethnocentric hate like Ford once cranked out Model T’s. In effect, they ARE running a factory - trying to expand a franchise of 'Kill Everyone Born an American'. So, if we didn’t go over there at all assaults on the West would probably increase anyway. It's damned if you do, damned if you don't. Very much a no-win situation. During our years of complacency they set up a brilliant chess board. Now that I know about Dr Zawahri's involvement I'm not surprised.
The position ‘Pacifists’ place themselves in, given conditions this extreme and this complicated, is the need to submit an alternative strategy without sounding simplistic; if they don’t they’ll never earn credibility. In both World Wars there were massive isolationist and neutral sentiments about getting involved. The first war required conscious manipulation on Wilson’s part (catalyzed by the Lusitania and the Zimmerman Telegram); the second, obviously, Pearl Harbor.
WWI plunged the U.S. into Europe with mixed motivations; WWII was due in large part to years of excessive allied economic pressures on Germany and marked by ethnocentrism, U.S. businesses ingratiating Nazi interests (with the foresight that Hitler was going to win the war prior to when we went in), lagging acknowledgment of the Holocaust both here and in Britain and bombing civilians. My point being all wars have potential moral backsliding. This new, unprecedented condition of war compares to WWII only in the way of popular support. Thereafter, the differences are numerous and the potential for moral regression, of losing our way over time is definitely there: like futility in a guerrilla war, massive escalation swaying many more to the extremists’ support, increasing domestic crises because of this damn bio-assault and bringing along "our God" to defeat theirs. These are the possible conduits to mistakes we might be able to avoid.
At this time, I think we’re doing what has to be done; but we have to be sure not to turn this into the New Age Crusades. This is much more than God blessing America. For the right strategies to span several years we have to use our heads not our passions...consistantly. Given our history of a short memory that's not an assurance.
So, for anyone who wants to be a Pacifist, you better come up with some ingenious alternatives to offer fast; reasoning with the al-Qaeda would as effective as advising the Jews during the Nazi reign to go on a hunger strike in protest to Hitler's policies.
"...because you disagree with their philosophy and methods."
Oh, that's right....how stupid of me. I didn't realize that I should open my mind up and try to understand a people different than me. Of course. Destroying the World Trade Center and 5000+ lives is just their philosophy. Their methods.
Yep, you really should be ashamed.
-TODD
The *French* are on our side?! Ah shit. We're doomed.
:|
L.
A brief jump into the fray here - inspired by David's last post.
::Quite right: War is hell.
::Which is why it's a rotten instrument of international policy,
(On the contrary, it's a VERY effective instrument, used correctly. Too bad it's not used correctly very often.)
::a lousy method of catching a few criminals,
(Here, here!)
::and thus clearly -- in my opinion, of course -- the wrong choice in this case.
(I might've been tempted to agree with you if this effort was only about a few criminals and had not included those spectacularly evil "governments" harboring the bad guys. ie: The Taliban. Which is where war is a great tool - to remove from power those too entrenched to remove any other way.)
::Apparently you see nothing wrong with executing someone without proper evidence,
(actually, I would say the evidence does exist, even though you and I have not seen it. More countries are on "our side" of this because of the "evidence" than just about any other time in my nearly 35 year life, hell, even the French are on our side of this - and you know how often that happens. I've never seen a million dollars, but I'm willing to go out on a limb and believe it exists only because every country in the world does too, especially if it arrives in the form of US "aid".)
::and attacking "extremists" just because you disagree with their philosophy and methods, Todd.
(The very best reason to attack anyone or anything is because you disagree with their methods - especially if their methods are repugnant and downright evil. Philosophy I could give a rat's ass about, but when you back it up with cross-burning, then I have a problem with ya.)
::But that's not the American way. It is in fact the approach the Nazis used against Jews.
::I'd be ashamed of any democracy that employs such methods ... and I am.
(Then be ashamed of every democracy on the planet - because not a one of the suckers is clean. But I might also suggest you be repelled by evil, secretive governments whose only aim is propagating the continued power of a very few. Cherish the fact, that despite our flaws, we still are the best damn country on the planet.)
Quite right: War is hell.
Which is why it's a rotten instrument of international policy, a lousy method of catching a few criminals, and thus clearly -- in my opinion, of course -- the wrong choice in this case.
Apparently you see nothing wrong with executing someone without proper evidence, and attacking "extremists" just because you disagree with their philosophy and methods, Todd. But that's not the American way. It is in fact the approach the Nazis used against Jews.
I'd be ashamed of any democracy that employs such methods ... and I am.
Frank, I think you meant to address that comment to me, not David.
And why oh why are we always "dropping bombs on children" and "killing innocent civilians"? Those lines make it sound like that is our mission.
I stand by my statement....War Is Hell and you are never going to be able to fight a 100% clean war no matter how much you would like to. I challenge anyone to find the U.S. directive that states "go to Afghanistan and kill a few kids please".
-TODD
David: Dropping bombs on Afghani children is not the way to get back at fascism. Remember, Bin Laden wanted us to retaliate in this way. This was the aim of the first attack. And it is Bin Laden who is the victor so far. Sadly.
David, excuse me, but my "stupid logic" had nothing to do with connecting the necessity of opposing fascism and the needless killing of civilians. My "stupid logic" had to do with a very simple piece and cliched piece of logic: War Is Hell.
I used WWII as an example only because that appears to be the only safe example of war to bring up when arguing with pacifists. Even pacifists understand the need for much of that violent conflict.
My "stupid logic" meant that people are killed whether they are soldiers or not. I sure don't think that every Nazi soldier in WWII deserved death just because he was a soldier and not a civilian....just as I don't believe that the only good Afghani is a dead Afghani. But, you know what? War Is Hell. Sure, this isn't an official pronounced "war", but it's war just the same.
I also tend to lean toward the horrible (sarcasm spoken here) jingoistic, flag waving statement that I can only blame terrorist scumbags (and not just our good friend Osama) ((please, people of America, please don't lose the feeling of wiping out these extremists the day we turn Osama into a corpse....he's only the first of many)), I can only blame the people we need to destroy for the fact that thousands of innocent lives were ended despicably just because they showed the fuck up to work that day. They came into the office, buttered their bagel, turned on their PCs, loosened their ties and then oops, they died.
So now we have a reason to do something other than reading the American Rulebook that says "that guy might have extremist ties but he didn't do anything yet so we can't even tap into his motherfucking disposable cell phone." Now we have a reason to not sit back and say "Hey, Israel, it's really tough about the fact that you can't eat a goddamn slice of pizza without wondering if that last swallow was, well, your last swallow. Keep negotiating please."
War Is Hell. People died. Tomorrow, I may die from a car accident, a heart attack, or just because someone saw the Star Of David on the chain on my neck and decided to give me a smallpox infected tongue kiss in the middle of the street. I'll be a victim too. Right now, we have over 5000 victims. WWII had victims. The Korean War, The Vietnam War, The Gulf War, whatever the fuck war it is has victims, both soldiers and civilians. I don't compare different conflicts for their political and intellectual arguments, as stupid as that may sound, I compare them to the fact that War Is Hell but today we are at war.
-TODD
Joseph:
Purchased my tickets already; they should be on the way.
Did see your post this morning and I am still kicking myself for not going. I went to see K-Pax last night, instead. The less said about that movie, the better. Did see Monsters, Inc yesterday too. Boy, am I still smiling! Those guys at Pixar are sheer geniuses.
Hopefully Neil will reprint those stories in the near future. heaven knows. He has written so many stories that he could very well put out a short story colection in the near future.
Alejandro.
Todd:
Not sure where I'd be if the Nazis had taken over, since I regularly attend synogogue but am not a Jew.
On the other hand, my mother was placed in internment camps by the "good guys" -- her own government -- for the duration of the war while two of her brothers were in U.S. Army uniform fighting in the Pacific theater.
I'll leave you to work out the connection you implied between the necessity of oppposing fascism and the needless killing of civilians, because I don't see one. I thoroughly object to the bombing of Dresden and Hiroshima, but that's hardly the same thing as opposing the war against Nazi Germany.
This is the stupid logic that equates criticizing the mistakes of one's own country with supporting the enemy. They're not the same thing at all.
Alejandro,
Sadly, my tags for sarcasm got lost in my post - I forgot that the board strips those, even the fake ones used for (slight) comedic purposes. I was being a smart ass, basically. Didn't mean to sound serious - I'd just like to see Mr. Gaiman get what he's due.
I do plan to be at the Humanities Festival for Mr. Gaiman's reading. Shall you?
You did see my morning post at Gaiman and the Tori Amos tour book, right? Some great short-shorts in that.
Regards,
Joseph
Joseph:
To be honest I don't know. All I know is what Comicon reported. But it might be worth asking Neil when he is next in Chicago (You know about his three appearances at the Chicago Humanities Festival, November 9 thru 11, right?. He will be talking about his works on the 9th at the Newberry Library, on the 10th he is interviewing Will Eisner at the Harold Washington Public Library and on the 11th he is a guest panelist alongside Michael Chabon and other writers at the Chicago campus of Northwestern University. Tickets are $5 a piece. Tickets are on sale at the Chicago Tribune store.)
Alejandro
Alejandro,
Does this mean that Neil Gaiman will start a new series with DC to defray the costs of his eventual legal battle with Tod McFarlane over Angela?
Or, as Eric (the owner of Chicago Comics) would put it: "Fuck Todd McFarlane!"
Regards,
Joseph
We interrupt this bulletin for Breaking News. Neil Gaiman and Marvel join forces to produce a six-part book for Marvel Knights, process to go to a fund Neil has created to help fray all legal costs in his fight for Miracleman. You can read the skinny at:
http://www.comicon.com/ubb/Forum13/HTML/000434.html
Now back to your regular broadcast.
David,
I'm not sure if I agree you about forgoing attacks on Afghanistan altogether (then again, that's what we were saying when we first took the stage in Vietnam) but you do make some legitimate points, with justifiable anxieties.
I doubt a lot of people realize to what extent ethics and rights are bent in times of war, within the country AND out. In the time of WWI Woodrow Wilson and Congress limited, outright, the ability of Americans to criticize government OR the war effort; they stifled dissent. The Alien Act enabled the gov't to deport any non-citizen who advocated any opposition. More sweeping was the Sedition Act, actually prohibiting any abusive language about either government OR the armed forces. I think it was Eugene Debs who was given a 10-year prison sentence just for opposing the draft and the war because of Socialist sentiments. So the legal machinery exists here, in spite of the constitution. And big business often finds ways to exploit war efforts and control information too.
THEN we saw what happened to the rights of free speech during Vietnam as well.
Yes, it often does start with everyone dancing to the tune of "another victory for America" and degenerates into Fascist measures; particularly with dragging, long-term wars. And my emphasis is the domestic side of it; it's hard to say what kind of chaos could go on over there, a place where guerilla warfare has potential. Given the present state of mind most will respond with, "well, I'm willing to take that chance now."
The reality is we're going to find out if your projections come to pass or if we've matured enough to prevent the erosion of ethics, both domestically and abroad. Either way we're going to be learning new difficult lessons from this conflict. The swords are drawn and, whether you like it or not, you and I are consigned to the bleachers. Right now, all we can do is watch.
And busy timorous.
L.
David, as the boards admitted flag waving right winger conservative republican warmonger, I refuse to be baited by your remarks because it will just send me rambling through a typo-filled discourse that really goes nowhere since I have my opinion and you have your opinion and neither will meet no matter how many keystrokes we passionately type.
Suffice to say: Who cares about evidence on the Sept 11 attack? If we have to use that as an excuse to kill as many extremists as possible, all power to us. If our bombs hit civilians or Red Cross facilities.....I'm very sorry to say it, but so what? If we worried so much about things like that in WWII, we would be all marching in step to the latest leader of the swastika (actually, you might be, but I would be dead being a Jew).
Even if the Anthrax scare is an American nutjob, who cares? Should we then say "oops, never mind. Please, continue to threaten us with death because are a successful country....oh, and please slaughter those losers in Israel too because they don't deserve to live".
Yipes. I ranted. You baited me and I bit. Shit!
-TODD
David~
Although I will not completely discount the possibility, I sincerely doubt that there are domestic terrorists with the potential to make weapons grade anthrax in this country. The efficacy of the anthrax in letters sent to Daschle and Brokaw speaks to the fine quality of the milled spores. Sure, you can find out a lot of crap on the internet but when it comes to the implementation of such a plan, it takes a little more than book learning. And the one country that declined to speak its opinion about the Septemeber 11th attacks is uniquely "experienced" in the hows and wherefores of biological weapons.
For more a little light reading, check out the following:
http://www.usamriid.army.mil/links/bdr.htm
L.
It's gotten altogether too timorous and quiet here this week. Time for a little rabble rousing.
I am bitterly amused that Americans who normally regard the government and the press with skepticism are suddenly -- because we are at war -- inclined to believe everything they say.
I don't normally think the government or media are as bad as other people say, but in wartime I am inclined to be far more mistrustful because the government has more reason to lie to us. A glance at history will confirm that.
I said a few weeks back that going to war with Afghanistan would not only result in moral and ethical crimes, but was probably a tactical error as well. So far I have seen no reason to alter that opinion.
The U.S. trots out "good news" almost every day -- hey, we have total control of the skies! look, we are going after the Taliban front lines! dig these blurry green video shots of things blowing up which we borrowed from the Klingon attack on Altair 7! (oops, we bombed a Red Cross relief warehouse, sorry!) -- none of which necessarily gets the U.S. any closer to the stated goal of capturing the terrorists responsible for the World Trade Center attack.
And where's that overwhelming evidence that Osama bin Laden was behind the Sept. 11 attacks? If the U.S. had it, I should think we ought to share it with the rest of the world, which would be the best way to keep them on our side in this thing. But I wonder whether we really DO have such evidence.
By the way, I hope the perpetrators of the anthrax attacks turn out to be American white supremacists or anti-abortion activists, which would TOTALLY discredit them for making use of a worldwide terrorism scare. Doesn't it seem odd to you that the U.S. can be so certain the guilty parties for the World Trade Center attack are on the far side of the globe, but they can't trace the route of a simple envelope from New Jersey to New York or Washington?
Gotta feel really bad for the families of those postal workers who popped off so quick, unprotected while the minions of Capitol Hill got all the attention, though. And now the U.S. Postal Service is going to send out a message to every American mailbox from those very same Washington DC depots where anthrax spores turned up? Time to blow up your mailbox.
I reviewed "Mulholland Dr." for AllWatchers.com, a Web site that is supposed to help viewers locate films that are similar to ones they've liked in the past. See my summary at
http://www.allwatchers.com/Topics/Info_8710.asp
At the bottom of the page, where the site identifies the ten most similar films reviewed, what's number one?
"The Adventures of Rocky and Bullwinkle."
Hello All,
Just a note that comes from being at the Tori Amos concert in Chciago last night (great show, by the way - her vocal control is really at a peak right now, and her phrasing was spectacular).
Anyone who is looking for obscure Neil Gaiman stuff should poke around and try to find a tour book from this tour, which has 12 Neil Gaiman short-shorts, each one relating to one of Tori's new songs on the album "Strange Little Girls." It's fantastic short stuff, some of it heart-rending.
Regards,
Joseph
*** the Pain thread *** Hmmmm. Yesss. I sink ze poblem is ve don't haff nearly enough data. A mere 6 Billion people and a paltry couple of millenia is not nearly enough pain to properly address this question. We need more test subjects. More controlled experiments. Much better Pain monitoring equipment. A deeper, more probing understanding of zee Nature of PAIN and how it is perceived is what is really Required.
Hi ho, hi ho, it's off to work I go ...
- Barney
Heather,
...WHAT the hell was I just saying?
Um...to correct what looks more like a Freudian Slip :
"St. Ambrose could be the next Dirk Diggler compared to me right now".
How 'bout that, huh?
Let's see just how many ways I can destroy myself here...online self-immolation.
OK...I'll go burn off the fever now.
Heather,
I truly thanks ya fer that but frankly, with a stifling cold like this, my ordinarily well-engaged libido looks like the transnational logging companies had a field day here.
St. Ambrose could pass for John Wayne Bobbitt compared to me right now.
But when all is restored I'll be back as the new RoboCop.
Harlan: Agreeed with Todd and Michael about your Monday morning post being the best and then read your Monday evening post which was even better. You da man. By the way, loved you at Claremont, sorry you found the room difficult and my question about the future of the Edgeworks series not scurrilous enough. (For those not there and/or also wondering, Harlan said the problem with White Wolf was their accounting system which HE likened to being invented by Leibniz. But HE was polite, as always, explaining the Edgeworks concept to the crowd, and that the publishing of the series had been brought in-house and the next volume would be out within...drumroll...a year.)(*Smile*)
Matthew: Loved your thoughts posted to Brian on why people affix to the conspiracy theories. Read it 2 or 3 times. (O.K. 5 or 6) (*Turn your head and cough*)
Tony: I agree with what you say about how sarcasm and other such subtleties may not transalate into two-dimensional text, leading to frustration of someone who spent a lot of time crafting a post.(*Hands against the wall, feet back and spread 'em!*)
Jim: I agree that perhaps no topic be categorically outlawed but perhaps the problem people are trying to oh-so-delicately-on the-razor-edge suggest is not topic but volume. I admit feeling less than qualified to offer criticism being a mostly-lurker myself, but I also feel compelled to vent my feelings of wanting to once-in-a-while scream "TAKE A BREATH".(*You may feel a little pressure*)
And to all: I read the latest fiction post, and have to say it was good, wherever it came from, but Rick, who provides us with this precious space, has provided a specific space for the posting of stand-alone written pieces. It is called "Contributions". Just scroll up from here, can't miss it. And in response to a post from a while ago saying we should appreciate Rick for the way he cleans up messes and makes this site work I say "Thank You, a thousand times, Rick. I have no idea what all you do to make this site work but I appreciate it. Harlan is the man and you obviously agree. Keep up the good work."(*Drop and give me twenty*)
That's it from the Out-of-Left-Field-Who-the-Hell-is-This-Guy Department.
Nia~ Don't. Please. I can hump for my own site. Thanks.
Lynn
Grinding the heel of her boot into the sand as she stood over the body, Nia exhaled, haltingly. He was dead and she'd lost the only connection to the puzzle she'd managed to uncover since Thursday night. Joseph would be pissed. She'd promised him fifteen hundred by the end of the week and HIS people had no patience WHATsoFUCKING ever.
She chewed the inside of her cheek and glanced about her, worried about onlookers. Nothing--so far. It was three a.m. Tuesday morning and most of the beach houses were on the other side of the forest, an easy ten miles west. The beach front security wouldn't be around til six, and any tourist who was still awake would be bar-hopping or humping their hosts, not creeping along this pearly white stretch of beach.
She leaned over and grabbed a handful of sand, worrying it in her fingers as she stared at the ocean. The waves were slow tonight--generally, a good time to go walking.
"Not tonight, of course. Christ, what was I thinking..." she smirked. She tossed the handful of sand on the body like a mourner casting one last mound of earth on a coffin.
She needed to buy some time here...
"Sorry, Drebs, I gotta go. The crows'll be by soon. They'll make light and meaty work of ya--you fuck." She kicked savagely at the body that lay sprawled in the sand, the face half-blown away by the small and tidy handbomb someone had tossed his way while she looked on, in horror.
She turned and headed back to the road. The blue Celica was still idling in the parking lot where she'd left it twenty minutes ago--was it only twenty minutes? She looked at her watch. "Christ. Jesus H. Christ." She slipped in behind the wheel, let out the clutch and excelerated down the road, heading for Joseph. He might have an answer by now. "Let's hope so," she said, checking the rearview mirror and seeing her expression.
"You're getting old, my dear. Getting old." She headed for the highway, glancing one last time at the beach where that body lay. She shuddered. "Fun and fucking games, eh wot?" she sighed.
....
Bodies: No matter how many battles this city had seen, no matter how many crooks and cops and creepsters, she would never get used to the bodies--and Joseph, in particular.
He'd raped her once--only HE wouldn't call it that. Grabbed her by her thick, dark hair and pulled her haughtily into the doorway. He'd slapped her first; her lip and mouth had bled. And he LAUGHED...fuck, how he had laughed, while he oozed liquor sweat and fumed of expensive cigars, and rammed his manhood--heh, now there's a word--into her; while his buddies, like cub scouts on a camping trip, stood around in the parking lot, talking excitedly about the Bosun/Rossy fight. God, how she hated him that night.
He came to her the next day; headachy and hung over and nursing a black eye she'd given him when he'd finally dropped her home and she'd screamed her goodbyes. Full of remorse, he was--aren't they all? when it suits them?--full of remorse and sundown orchids and peanut butter cheesecake and tickets to the Wilton concert. She'd thrown the cheesecake on the lawn and the dog had eaten it and thrown up in the back of his car while he drove her around trying to calm her down. It took him three months of crawling on his credit card to appease her--heh heh.
Now here she was headed for his beach house, the engine on her Celica roaring like a room full of buzzsaws, tears filling her eyes as the reality of the last two hours impacted her. Drebs was dead and she was fucked--from now til doomsday, it seemed. If she couldn't get that money back to Joseph....Fuck, fuck, fuck. What now?
Taking the turn-off to Canyon Beach, she breaked suddenly, narrowly adverting a silver fox that had skittered across the road. Her knuckles went white against the steering column as she drove the long, sand and gravel path to Joseph's front door. The front walk lights were on and eerie shadows snaked up the walls of the building's sandstone surface, looking like ants dipped in cement for eternity. Killing the engine and hopping out of the car, her boots hitting the walkway like a dancer, she fell against the doorbell and called to him.
"Joseph! Open the FUCKING door!" She leaned her forehead against its smooth, oak surface and breathed in the salt air from the beach not two hundred yards behind the house. He'd paid cash for this place some months ago; it was part of the little charade the two of them had played at when they were in love--a love nest for lovers who had never believed in love. Joseph was at the door in an instant.
"Holy Christ, Nia. Steve called me. He was following you. What the hell happened?" He pulled her roughly in through the doorway and hugged her close for a moment, feeling relief at finding her here again and unharmed. "Jesus, I was sick when he told me. Are you okay?"
"Ask me again later. I need to take a shower," she said, pulling away from him distractedly, and heading down the hall to the washroom, peeling her clothes from her body as she walked. Joseph followed her, carefully picking up each piece and throwing it hurriedly over his arms.
"This wasn't supposed to happen, I swear to you," he said, his voice sounding rough and full of concern. "I have no idea--"
"Of course you don't," said Nia, pulling back the shower curtain and running the water. "Leave me alone for a minute. I need to think."
"I'm not sure--"
"Joseph, I said leave me alone. I'm not blaming you for what happened but right this minute.. Oh..god.." She pulled the curtain closed and stood under the hot, steamy stream, hoping Joseph would shut up for a moment. He laid her clothing on the counter and went into the cupboard to get a big, beefy bathrobe and extra towels. He placed them beside her clothes and sat down on the toilet seat to wait for her.
Nia shampooed her hair and lathered her skin with the soap from the soapdish. "Joseph, didn't I tell you I hate perfumed soap? What is this crap?" She stood under the shower for a few minutes more, hoping the suds and the tension in her body would trail down the drain. She felt like she'd been running for hours: her neck and shoulders ached, her lips felt rough, her throat raw.
Joseph smiled at her grimly as she left the shower, barely noticed her naked body, and watched her slip into the bathrobe and wrap a towel around her head. He followed her, without a sound, into the kitchen where she began to rummage through the refrigerator in hopes of building a sandwich to take the edge off her anxiety. "Can I get you something to drink?" he asked.
"You know I don't drink," she snapped, putting a plate of chicken breasts and a loaf of brown bread out on the kitchen table and assembling a sandwich. He stood for a moment, his face blank, watching her while she ate. She looked sideways at him, the muscles tensing in her jaw. She shook her head and sighed.
"What the hell am I doing?--I'm sorry. Yes, build me a drink, Jos, one of those fruit and follicle thingmes." He grinned and pulled some fruit juice out of the the frig, setting it beside the blender.
....
She knew she had to put some distance between her and this place before the light returned. Finishing her sandwich, she put the plate in the sink and headed for Joseph who was standing in the hallway, his back against a wall. She pulled him by a belt loop and he touched the back of her bathrobe as he stood up to walk with her and they headed for the den. She flopped on the floor, with the last of her drink in her left hand and scanned the room. Joseph stretched out on the sofa behind her, reached out and placed his palm gently on top of her head, absently stroking her temple. She sipped her drink in silence.
"You didn't HAVE to get involved, you know," he said.
"Yes, I know. But that's not the point, now, is it?" She closed her eyes.
...
Visit: http://www.digitalcarrion.com
Sheesh, and I thought you guys argued about some pretty meaningless things:
http://slate.msn.com/moneybox/entries/01-10-22_117732.asp
L.
You're correct in your description of Roeper's review. However, my little rant was against Roeper's inability to understand that not all stories care about being realistic, either in terms of plot or even character motivations. I can imagine him cringing at how "over the top" and "unrealistic" most operas are.
I don't know if Ebert was responding to Roeper in his print review of Dancer in the Dark or not (probably not) but I loved his reviews and especially this part of it:
"Since it is impossible to take the plot seriously on any literal level, it must be approached, I think, as a deliberate exercise in soap opera. It is valid to dislike it, but not fair to criticize it on the grounds of plausibility, because the movie has made a deliberate decision to be implausible: The plot is not a mistake but a choice."
When you shoot in black and white, one creative decision you make is to elimnate the element of color possibly with an eye to focusing more on another element in your story. Sometimes you choose to eliminate realism from your plot or from your character's motivations intentionally so you can take a look at some other aspect of the story in which you are interested.
Roeper just doesn't seem to get this - I've seen it over and over in his reviews. He has this very stringent expectation of what a plot is supposed to be like and if it doesn't fit that expectation, he doesn't like it.
It's silly to rant about a film critic, of course, but I have come to expect high standards from Ebert and Siskel and expected the same from Ebert and... whoever he picked. I haven't seen it yet.
On the other hand, the show does now provide a fairly reliable formula. An Ebert thumbs up with a Roeper thumbs down means I have to seriously think about seeing the movie. :)
Frank,
Roeper was not claiming in his on-air comments that LA cops like the character in "Training Day" do no exist. What he objected to was the whole string of events in the movie. The plot, in his opinion, was just too much happening in one day. A tenable opinion, I think. That was the lack of realism he was objectig to, not the portrayal of LAPD.
Regards,
Joseph
I heard Nixon liked young boys. lol.
Muholland Drive: No, no, I think all the blonds are the same person. lol.
Richard Roeper is a smart guy, but I know Siskel would of spat up his ovaltine in praise of, "Training Day". Ask anyone in South Central LA if cops like that really exist.
Also, avoid, "The Last Castle" at all costs!! Jingoistic shit from Robert Redford. But the flag wavers will get a mighty hard on with this film of knee-jerk flab.
Scott: As someone who has written some pretty out-there stuff on this board (Richard Nixon sex fantasies, anyone?), believe me when I tell you: Post anything you want. My rant was a one-time only deal, with no specific target in mind; it's my fault if that wasn't absolutely clear. Trust me, the very IDEA of telling someone they should avoid certain topics on a *HARLAN*FREAKIN'*ELLISON* message board is ludicrous in the extreme. In other words: We cool, man.
(Heather, I imagine, is another matter. "Why did I give my love to such a BASTARD?" Unfortunatly, Darlin', you're not the first woman to say that...)
Lynn,
Thanks for the heads-up on "Heroes." I've been awaiting.
Also, all of us Spidey fans should keep an eye out for Amazing Spider-Man #31, due out next Wednesday. Straczynski takes on the WTC disaster from a Marvel universe context. Buzz is that it's powerful stuff.
Regards,
Joseph
I'm back. Better than ever. New and improved. A goddamn miracle of modern medicine.
Comments on what Lynn done said: Concerning land nav and just being able to read a map...you are correct (or, whoever said it that you were dictating for) and that comes from first hand experience and seeing the most amazing thing I've seen when the convoy we were supposed to be leading decided they knew better. No details as it's only pertinent to the expression that was...um, expressed, but map reading is a highly underrated skill.
As far as the "scientific evidence" regarding woman/man tolerance to pain. I'm going to have to call bullshit on that one. Pain is a very subjective experience and to say that a man or a woman has higher tolerance over the other gender is specious at best. Pain is an individual experience and someone's sensitivity (or not) to that experience depends on a great many factors, none of which includes whether you are male or female. (And I'm talking about physical and mental pain)
Other things: I seem to have missed a great many discussions and there were a couple of things I would've liked to have commented on, but it appears that everyone has moved on and the topic of (recent) discussion has changed. Having said that, I would like to offer belated condolences to Joseph though I'm a day late and a dollar short.
One other thing: Paraphrasing the Men Without Hats, you can post if you want to. You don't necessarily have to leave your friends behind, but if you want to talk about toilets and vomiting and other minutiae go right ahead. It's your conversation. Some of us may or may not join that particular conversation--biding our time until something NEEDS or MOVES us to say something--but that's our prerogative. We made our money. We can do what we want. However, having said that, I must admit that some of the conversations on this board are a bit maddening.
One other other thing: Books into movies. I agree with Brian regarding the Puzo bestseller. I thought it was a bit of an unimaginative soap opera, almost like a Joan Collins novel. But, it did have the elements in it that probably would've transferred to the screen quite well anyway. My nomination for the movie was better than the book has got to be Three Days of the Condor, based on SIX DAYS OF THE CONDOR. I can't remember who wrote it and it's not worth the effort to find out, but it was one of the most godawful books I've ever read. I probably wouldn't feel so strongly about this, but the movie was terrific and I saw the movie before I read the book. Jesus Christ, it's bad. And I applaud the makers of the movie for elevating a misogynistic piece of shit like that book into a damn fine movie.
This conversation is over.
All~ Just got my hands on a copy of Marvel's "Heroes." Words can not describe. If you are at all into comics, get a copy.
Still teary eyed,
L.
HARLAN, re Cafe Ellison Daibolique and freeze-dried coffee. If I wasn't such a gentleman, I could crow at length about catching you out on an error of fact. But I have a sense of proportion about such things, and I want credit for _being_ a gentleman, so I'll be my usual polite self and begin by saying "Harlan, I'm afraid you've made a small error here..."
I'll go on to say that the _reprint_ I have of the recipe, in the hardcover edition of the _Hornbook_, page 40, calls for Maxim instant freeze-dried coffee, and later notes that the "bite" of freeze-dried helps to add a special piquancy.
Now, if I were a snotty widdle kid lookin' to take you down a notch, I'd seize upon this extremely minor, trivial, and perfectly understandable mistake and ride it all the way to town, yelping, "Hah!" and "Snooks!" and "What an awful bad hat!" and cackle with glee over the whole incident. But, since I'd like to earn people's respect for gentlemanly behavior, I'll just go on at length about how I didn't do anything nasty or snotty, and imagine that everyone's patting me on the back for my responsible adult behavior. And then I'll resume my conversations with the space aliens who live in my CD player.
On another point, someone mentioned that old saw about the book always being better than the movie. I can think of two exceptions that prove the general rule. The first, which may be cheating a little, are the _Godfather_ movies. The book contained a long and fairly pointless sequence set in Vegas, involving Johnny Fontane, his childhood friend, a corrupt doctor, and a few others; the movies added a brilliant plot about Fredo, Hyman Roth, and Cuba.
The other exception is the film of Jerzy Kosinski's _Being There_. The book struck me as one of those exercises gauged to appeal solely to New York's literary circles. But the movie was a real marvel.
Scott:
Don't worry, Scott, if you AIN'T cowering, dat's cool.
Cos people, HERE, do tend to do that, so I was using YOU to make the point. Email me privately if you wish to natter further on this subject. I found your stuff interesting, okay? (But I ALSO don't like going private, cos MAYBE someone who WAS interested will miss the convo. See where that leaves us? Hmm..?)
You noticed, for example, how the posts dropped off last night.
I make my point, heuh?
Heather
Jim, baby, do what YOU gotta do to, heuh?
For you developmentally distainful (look it up, it probably means YOU or YOU or YOU) or word-challenged types, I say, so be it, huh, skip the damn post.
I REALLY appreciated Scott's words the other day. Course, maybe it's cos I'm on his level right now. Him and me are ten year olds sharing a similar level of a mind-set right now.
And after a week of writing -- yes, I was writing, damn you, I wasn't in the mood to think on Sunday and a bit of feedback from a like-minded soul, was HELPFUL, okay?
We can discuss, in anal detail, the works of Dos-sto-f-ski- TOMORROW, oKAY?
Yeesh.
Heather
Rob, bebes, I read you. _And_ I read your tone. AND why you think the way you do, K?
Ya WORK fer me. So, quit worryin' and do what cha wanna do.
Sure beats sitting on a stump, right?
No tree stumps at ROB'S place.
Hope the cold is working itself through. Colds, annoying, eh?
Heather
Harlan,
Y'know, this cold woke me so I came online for a few minutes; upon glancing back at me ‘RoboCop’ post I feel very embarrassed. We hang out in the forum, in part, to get the silliness out of our system from daily strife and the grip of Marx Brothers insanity. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. But that was thoroughly lame. Really stupid. Had the subtlety of - well - an emetic. And I have to apologize for it. I know it’s a cheap dodge but I’m going to attribute it to my woozy, dripping flu-ridden head. It wasn’t meant to be obnoxious; I just wanted to share my own notion 'bouts the film. I’ll go hide my disfigured countenance under the sheets now.
Groveling Always,
Rob
Harlan, Jim, et al: Nah, I ain't offended. You're right. My last girlfriend told me that I should always have one finger permanently hovering over the delete key; I just never listened to her ("I'm a writer, she's not, blah blah blah").
By the way, Jim, I LIKE your posts, even when they have nothing to do with emetic matters. I usually just can't think of a way to respond to them. No more vague mythologizing, or analogies, or anything from this corner; I believe I'll keep that in PRIVATE e-mail.
Heather: I don't want this to turn into "Beat Up On Heather Day," but, uh, what's all this about "cowering?" Ya know, sometimes I DO have things to do. Real life things, that require me to not sit at a computer. I get online about three times a week. Sometimes more, sometimes less. "Cowering" has nothing to do with it. If I was cowering, I wouldn't come back and would live under my bed, with a blankie and a hot water bottle.
I know you jest. But I don't have the time to come here every day.
Everybody Else: I behave myself now.
(Geez, what's all this about "From Hell," of COURSE the graphic novel is better; remember the cliche? "The Book Is Always Better Than The Movie." It ain't always true, but it's true this time. Heather Graham as Mary Kelly? Reminds me of Kevin Costner as Robin Hood.)
Scott Miller
Rob~ How about lessass? Does that work?
Justin~ Some golden gems of advice passed on via the non-posting member of my family, re: MRE Trading and other FTX issues:
Number One: "Always trade for track pads (apparently some sort of oatmeal cookie/bar that looks like a fire starter puck), which are not quite as good as John Wayne bars (the chocolate covered cookie, apparently not as durable in the heat and the bottom of ruck sack trampling)."
Number Two: "Beware the Chicken a lá King. Tastes just fine, but an hour after you eat it, the enemy will know where you are by the stench alone."
Number Three: "Always take pogie bait." This is apparently non-Army issue bite-size power bars and candy bars, sunflower seeds, beef jerky, and gatorade packets. This gives you superior bartering power.
And finally, further advice re: MREs would have to be censored so brutally that it would sap any shred of meaningful wisdom from it. Suffice it to say that one should avoid mixing the MRE peanut butter with mosquito repellent around open flame. Especially in the presence of non-dairy powdered coffee creamer.
And if you're bored out of your skull by doing land nav over the same piece of terrain for the umpteenth time, do it tactical. Play 'what if'. Imagine you're hiding from them, or that they're hiding from you. It's one thing to take a compass reading or shoot an azimuth while you're just walking around. It's another thing entirely to do it while imagining you're being hunted. Did you low crawl up to that hilltop to shoot your azimuth? Never forget you're there to play Army, so if they aren't prepared to train you, just play Army. Map reading is the least practiced skill that, gods forbid you end up in a real life situation, is one of the most vital in the real world.
Also, it probably wouldn't hurt to do some landmine recognition research either. I'm done dictating for now.
Harlan~ I remember seeing the "The Arrival" when it was in theaters. Great concept, but the movie left something to be desired. Haven't seen it recently enough to tell you what, but I remember it as being 'alright.'
As to the women and pain tolerance, I'm too tired to find you something clinical and official sounding right now, but I do know for a fact that scientific studies have shown that women have a higher pain tolerance than men do. Doesn't mean that you're a wuss. Never meant to imply that you're a wuss. Just meant to say that whatever your insanely macho pain tolerance level is, chances are that Susan's are higher than yours. And here's a weird one for you: older women have a higher pain tolerance than younger women. I used to chalk it up to my mother and her iron petticoat philosophy, but nope. It's a medical fact. And as to *your* pain tolerance allowing you to fight with broken bones protruding from your flesh, well. As much as my first reaction would be to chalk that up to plain bullheadedness, I know for a fact that shock and adrenaline can do some amazing things. The kidney stones I can't attest to. Don't want to attest to. In fact, I think I'll just forget you ever mentioned that. Thanks for the reminder about the tea.
Off in a cloud of dust,
L.
Harlan: Hmmmm? Sorry, I really can't make out what you're saying--I'm too busy dodging black helicopters and trying to dig the microchips out of my skull. My post was mostly tongue-in-cheek, but maybe a touch o' paranoia DID creep in, as well. As always, your words are duly noted.
Heather, Heather, Heather, Heather (and Scott, too): All I'm saying is that TOO MUCH vague mythologizing about the Writer's Plight can do more harm than good. Just don't fret so much about the nebulous aspects of creation; it's far more productive to focus on the specifics of writing, like technique and grammar and such. "Why" is always a bugbear of a question, and can drive you insane if you ask it repeatedly. And I didn't react to JUST the posts of the last day or so; I've been reading this board for almost three months, and this is a thread that pops up with alarming regularity.
Of course, you have the right to disregard anything I said. Maybe I came on too strong, and should have tempered my words. Know that my post was intended as a corrective, not a condemnation.
By the way, I didn't see FROM HELL tonight. Maybe this weekend.
Jim
Rob:
"...in the printed word, is it possible to express a disagreement with a tone of sarcasm without being taken as obstinate and contentious? Or does it all come across like I’m saying, "You're wrong. THIS is the way you should think"?..."
It's possible. Trouble is, a forum like this isn't exactly the printed word. It's spontaneous scatter-gun conversation conducted without the benefits of body language, audible tone of voice, and facial expression. So unless you're writer enough to say what you mean with exactly the right words to convey all the things you'd normally convey by tone of voice, and writer enough to do it on the spur of the moment and to get it exactly right before hitting that send key, attempts at sarcasm in this sort of forum are more likely to result in a reader's not taking your remarks exactly the way you intended.
--- TR
A ripped larynx, a broken clavicle, a shattered sternum, and a busted jaw...and still I’m alive, lying here in my psychological morass; I DID say I’d be on the receiving end of the ol’ ultra-violence. And I just got my ass kicked. I asked for it. What can I say?
Listen, the only morass I’m STUCK in is this flu I’M dealing with. I look like some drooling organism out of the X-Files.
Let me ask a simple question of everyone here: in the printed word, is it possible to express a disagreement with a tone of sarcasm without being taken as obstinate and contentious? Or does it all come across like I’m saying, "You're wrong. THIS is the way you should think"? If Chris says he didn’t like ‘From Hell’, a new addition to my "thumbs-up" landfill (we’ll just attribute these occasional generosities of mine to nitrogen bubbles in my brain) I like to submit my own view about the elements in it that DID work for me. And it ends there. There is no asp latching to your fundament. I'm not trying to say you're wrong or 'prove' that you're wrong; I'm just trying to tell you what I saw.
Heather, you like to get into the gray matter. What do you think? Feedback is invited. But don’t bother reminding me of my 'psychological morass'...since we all have one to talk about. (Or at least wait till my cold is past; somehow it's making me hate the word 'morass' right now).
Harlan Ellison, you are SUCH a girl!
Heather
Awwwwwww.
MATTHEW DAVIS: Thank you for the pronunciation correction. I cannot guarantee that I shan't mispronounce COHV-entry again, because, ironically, when I was born, in Cleveland, Ohio, in 1934, my parents were living in an apartment on Cedar Road and Coventry. So from my first infant hearing of that word, till five minutes ago when I read your post, I have always heard it pronounced CUHV-entry. But having been apprised of my error, I shall attempt to retool. On the other hand, of course, sir, though I know his name is pronounced JAY-kl, not JECK-ill, every American (and most Brits) mispronounce the name of Mr. Hyde's alter persona, as well as the destination Coventry, to which one can be sent when one is shunned. Not to mention the cross-cultural differences between "aluminium" and "aluminum" or "luh-BORE-itry" and "LAB-rahtory." Nonetheless, advised is apprised. I shall try to do better, sir.
And it was Richard--whom I've known as "Ricky" for about thirty years--himself who told me he had patterned a few of the mannerisms of the protagonist of THE GOODBYE GIRL after mine own ways. You probably don't know it over there, but Richard is currently starring in a Sunday evening primetime series titled "The Education of Max Bickford." Hence, we get a pleasing weekly dose of Dreyfussian thespic brilliance. Mayhap it'll be picked up by Thames or one of your other peculiar channels, when they run short of the breathtaking cricket matches and decade-long series' on The Efficacy of Rooting Aster Bulbs in Early Fall. (Where is "No, Honestly!" when you need it? Where The Wombles? Where "Get Some In"? Where the occasional Pinter enigma? Where have all the flowers gone, long time...oh, forGET it!)
JUSTIN: One day I will, indeed, delight you with the saga of Pvt. Ellison and Sgt. Bedzyk. Not now, however. I've got a rotten virus, and I have to fly to Madison, Wisconsin before I know it. So...not now.
ROB: Kindly knock off this shit, will you. I didn't say YOU couldn't like ROBOCOP, I said IIIIIIII was disappointed in ROBOCOP. In my view, that is to say MY VIEW, which is, please note, the view that is mine, which is that view that is the one I have, Verhoeven's first U.S. film revels in some extremely meretricious shit. Which is precisely whatI said directly to the guys who wrote it, about a week after the premiere, at a party at Stan Lee's condo here in LA. There was some minor interesting pseudo-satirical sidebar juvenilia in the film, some nice addlebrained sophomoric ultraviolence, and the usual Verhoeven deification of the cutting edge of carsmash SFX (did I mention this was MY SOLE PERSONAL OPINION?), yet I gainsay others naught when they express admiration for the film. Or any other movie, or work of art in any other medium. So kindly do not, EVER AGAIN, Rob, or any the rest of you, make that chasm leap from my expression of MY opinion on a subject, to a cultural-cringe response that equates my opprobrium or approbation with your own feelings about the same objet d'art. Are we clear on this, Rob? I have no idea what unconscious spur directed you to have to "cop" to liking this film, as rejoinder to my innocuous mention of same. But...
Knock this shit off. All of you. I neither desire nor any way appreciate this currying/responding/resisting reaction-formation to my idle maunderings. If you like it, son, then LIKE it, but don't drag ME into your psychological morass. And this time I MEAN the stern tone.
BRIAN SIANO: Migawd, you must've gotten hold of a VERY early version of the recipe for Caffe Ellison Diabolique, because the use of instant coffee in the recipe came immediately, but I mean IMMEDIATELY, after the introduction of freeze-dried, an affinity for which I developed and then discarded. It was a brief infatuation. I've used nothing but freshly-ground, for decades, and every subsequent reprint of the recipe has so indicated. Echh; yet another example of that saw I repeat, "Doctors are lucky; they get to bury their mistakes."
JIM DAVIS: Don't get paranoid. The effulgence of your wisdom has not escaped us. The profundity of your wit, the ethical underpinnings of your least utterance, the Atlas strength of your ability to convey in Homeric prose the weight of human suffering you understand...all of this awes us, silences us, beats us back into such stygian depths of inadequacy, that only penultimate wonders, such as the Britannica and the Bhagavad-Gita vouchsafe any comparison.
Geezus-peezus, Davis. I picked one trope from the overflowing slop-bucket. Give it a rest. No one's got it in for you. Any more than they have it in for, uh, whatsisname, the guy in the paragraph above. I'd love to go three rounds with some of you pantywaists, with the light gloves. Or al dente pasta.
LYNN: First, the tea I recommended, that Susan dotes on, is called "genmaicha." Brown rice tea. Many different brands. Go to a Japanese market. Second, women do NOT, necessarily, have a higher tolerance for pain than men. Pain threshhold, as every test, back to the dawn of Pavlov has shown, is ideopathic and idiosyncratic. Some men whimper like Little Lulu if they get a paper cut, others have sacrificed their limbs rather than spill secrets; some women sniffle and bleat and cling tenaciously to the role of the hypochondriac, while others gnaw through the hull of a sinking VW to rescue their children. I happen to have a pain threshhold that is so high, when I get in a street fight, even if my fingerbones are protruding from the knuckle folds, I keep fighting, because I can't feel it. I wind up doing Cool Hand Luke till I win, because the other guy either can no longer look at the bloody horror that keeps coming back at him, or his arms have grown leaden with smashing my face in. One day I'll tell you of the ploy I developed to get my older sister to stop tormenting me. One day I'll tell you how I kept a 300-lb. goon from wasting me by creating a panoply of pain so gagging that he wanted to puke rather than deck me. One day--well, hell, you can read it in the introduction to Joe L. Hensley's story in the 1967 DANGEROUS VISIONS. So do not, I urge you, lady, do not enter one of those portmanteau pseudo-Sacher-Masochian myths that substitute childbearing for such male equivalents as passing 45 kidneystones in five hours, at home, sans benefit of anesthesia, screaming with the pain that can only be produced by the equivalent of passing an SUV through the eye of a needle. You may TRY to compare same with the agony of childbirth--and the comparisons are not invidious--but manifest a marked difference. The urethra has a fixed diameter; the vagina is a "potential space." And third, I'm delighted you liked "Pitch Black" as it was written and directed by the director who's doing my "Demon With a Glass Hand," David Twohy. And if you liked "Pitch Black," I urge you in the strongest possible terms to rent his previous film, "The Arrival," which is a thousand times better.
The missuz and I saw SMALLVILLE last Tuesday. I wasn't expecting much; in fact, didn't almost watch it. But I was MUCH impressed with it. Not only because of the reinterpretation of the basic canon, but by the beguiling personalities of the principals. We will watch it the more.
And now, as Susan points out to mwah, the time I spend here is time that is leached out of the fraying tapestry of my writing life. So, for an extended time, I will vanish. To no one's sorrow.
I've enjoyed spending these Golden Moments with you.
Respectfully, yr. pal,
Anastasia.
I saw "Mulholland Drive" the other evening and found it to be an enjoyable movie. The experience could be likened to watching someone else's dream.
I am very glad that most movies are not made in this manner. However, I am equally happy that there are film-makers who are able to express their vision on the screen like David Lynch does.
I also saw "Vampire Hunter D: Bloodlust" recently. This is not a remake of nor a sequel to the original movie. Rather, it is a different tale involving the same character. It was very enjoyable and artistic. The dialogue in some parts perhaps lacked a little, but the story makes up for it. The animation is beautiful, the story is simple (yet engaging), and the characters are interesting.
To put my "two cents" in about favorite movies I will list a couple that I didn't see mentioned:
Lawrence of Arabia - my favorite of all time. While the acting sometimes (only rarely in the movie) seems more suitable to stage than screen, the scope and depth of the movie are breathtaking. Truly a work of art.
The Insider - A triumph. The perfect mix of style and substance.
The Limey - Very simple on the story aspect. It's deep, but subtle. "Less is more" at it's best. I'm a huge fan of the editing, as well.
I'd write more, but I don't want to be a critic. I just want to present my opinion.
Fare well,
Matt
From what I can note, the quantity of 'conversation' on writing has been minimal of late--I, for one, as one contributor to this topic, haven't been around as much to encourage it. (I've been writing, actually, so nyaah!)
I suggest anyone who is concerned about this, look a _little_ closer. Scott wrote a coupla nice, long pieces last night--thank you, AGAIN, Scott, in case you are starting to cower in a corner--and to, me, that's about the whole of it. Perhaps some of you feel differently--so be it. Skip the post, hmm?
(In particular: Might I suggest looking at dates and times of posts; you might just see my point more clearly, dear hearts.)
No offense intended, but I feel it needed saying.
Heather
Harlan:
Somedays, I'm just not in the mood...today, work was a bear. I was gonna comment on it but I'll do this, instead. (Still, Scott, I thought your comments were beautiful--Thank you, dear heart. More on this when I'm feeling more...more...hmm...)
So, sir,..... I'll be anal here as I can't 'read' your seriousness (or lack of) in some of this. My brain's a little mushy just now, and as you've done this to me before....
"FIRST, I did not send Ms. Lovatt a hand puppet. Ms. Lovatt apparently doesn't know when to mitigate her frivolities."
When to "migitate my frivolities". Huh? I wrote a neat story, based on EXACTLY what happened to me on Saturday. How much more I chose to say, online, was my concern. I'm sure the majority, here, would care less. They got a story - c'est tout.
As to what happened AFTER I opened the package -- check with Rick, I sent you a 'PRIVATE' email, sir.
"Ms. Lovatt also makes assumptions that are off the chart, such as surmising that my lawsuit against AOL/RemarQ/Critical Path had anything to do with pornography stuff from elsewhere."
I posted something, matter-of-factly, sir--looking for some feedback. You make connections that were not suggested. It seemed damn strange that AOL appear to be located in the same place where this OTHER issue is taking place. Nothing more. And I wanted someone to corroborate the fact that they ARE, in fact, located in Virginia--is that true?
And dis one, I ain't even gonna touch:
"Which will firm you up for the surprise thanks you'll soon be visiting on anonymous Webderlanders who have done you a surprise solid, yet to surprisingly hit your doorstoop, much to your surprise."
The word that comes to mind, HERE, is "H-U-H"?
Not even sure what's being stated here. If I can't read it TWICE--no, make that THREE! times--and make sense of it, I push it back on your plate, SIR!
Heather, oy! (oh, and in real life, I NEVER use the word, "sir.")
Lynn,
Ah well, if you have already seen Blue Man Group then I agree with your reasoning - you won't always get the chance to see Penn and Teller.
I stayed at Luxor in my last trip to Vegas this May. I wasn't all that crazy about the room but I liked the casino a lot.
Don't gamble at the next door Excalibur. Those rat bastards cut some deal with the devil or stack their decks or something. They do not operate by the normal laws of chance in that low-rent little dive.
Brian, I was amused to see you mention Jamy Ian Swiss. He's been a friend of my family for years. Besides being a great magician, he's also a great talker. Don't mention Nostradamus or psychics to him though because his vitriol will most likely singe off your eyebrows! But you already know this, being a member of CSICOP.
Chris~ Thanks for the heads up, and I agree with you completely. I've seen Blue Man live before. Their recordings (video & audio) can not due the experience justice. HOWEVER (dot dot dot), while I am staying at the Luxor and the temptation to see the show there is a large one (that and my SO hasn't seen them yet), Blue Man is a permanent installation and Penn & Teller are not. They just happen to be in Vegas next weekend. So we get in a cab and we toodle over to the Rio and we see Penn & Teller. No biggie. And actually I'm really looking forward to it, now that I went ahead and bought the tickets. Maybe I can con the SO into taking me to the late show of Blue Man on Friday night... Hmm....
L.
Lynn,
I dearly love Penn and Teller - in fact, I think I have a platonic crush on Penn because I smile almost every time I see him or read something he has written. However, if you must choose between the two, I would go with the Blue Man Group. It is quite simply the best live show I have ever seen. It appeals to almost every sense as well as to the intellect. It is rare to witness genuine art in a Vegas show but this one has it in spades. It is an experience I will never forget and I hope I get to see them again this winter.
Of course, you can't go wrong seeing Penn and Teller but you can also get a good dose of them from other sources (I just finished reading "How to Play in Traffic" and highly recommend it) - the Blue Man Group must be experienced live. The Blue Man CD is cool and all but it's not the same thing.
Sorry, last in the line of too many posts:
Brian, the man who taught me about guns also gave me a good insight about human nature. "When the only tool you have is a hammer, pretty soon every problem starts looking like a nail." Hence, if you feel the need to carry, you also have the responsibility to work on not only your speed and accuracy, but your confrontation management skills. De-escalation becomes a way of life. Hence your subliminal desire to have someone try something so you could respond with the only tool you had available. Just an observation.
And I think I am going to go see Penn & Teller. Would that I could afford to see both. As it is, this trek across the barren wasteland is going to be more interesting than usual, considering my recent reading material.
"With Teeth Like Baseballs And Eyes Like Jellied Fire," I remain ever yours,
L.
Don’t get me wrong. I love the fuckin’ Army. But I would like to point something out: I saw a side to the Army this weekend that up until now I had not been privy to. The side that can’t find its ass with both hands, a flashlight, and a compass. There seemed to be a great deal of confusion, disarray, and tension at the FTX this weekend. While there were a few notable standouts, quality future officers, mostly the cadet command (primarily Military Science 3 students, who were being evaluated by the MS 4s) seemed staggeringly ill prepared for what was going on this weekend. To be fair, I got the impression that it wasn’t entirely their fault, that there were a lot of things that fell through at the last minute. A lot of the stuff we prepared for didn’t end up happening. A good example of this is the M16 situation. Ft. Huachuca is still at Threatcon Charlie, ergo they couldn’t spare any MPs to run the firing range and follow us around to make sure we didn’t fiddlefuck around and break their guns. So there were a lot of last minute changes, and the whole three day exercise consisted in the end of only four bits of training: a somewhat wussed-out GAT (grenade assault training) and general obstacle course, rapelling, and day/night land navigation.
We land navigated every square inch of that installation, hour after hour, day after day, in the southern Arizona heat. I think we did so much land nav because of the other training exercises that fell through. The problem is that our Military Science 1 and 2 instructors didn’t teach us enough about land nav, not realizing how much of it we would be doing. This leads me to believe that the same sort of thing went on in the Military Science 3 and 4 courses. It appears as though not enough time, attention, and focus was given to the specifics that would have made the field training exercise go much more smoothly for everyone.
As it was, there was a lot of this going on: “Form up here, no there, no here, no move over there and form up, no nevermind go eat, wait, put your MREs away, we’re on detail, no wait we’re not on detail, Bravo is on detail, get out your MREs again, forget it Bravo needs help, put your MREs away again, I don’t care if you’ve already started cooking it, just shove the piping hot bastard into your pocket and move over here, quick quick quick, hurry hurry hurry, now go over there and form up, hurry hurry hury hurry quick quick quick faster faster faster, now stand in that spot for an hour and a half while we figure out what we’re doing.”
So the FTX was a mixed bag of tricks. Parts of Ft. Huachuca are staggeringly beautiful, and Ft. H is easily the largest military installation I have ever seen (and I’ve seen too many of the sum’bitches to count). On the other hand, it was so hot during the day that we had a number of heat casualties, and so cold at night that it was very difficult to get to sleep. Certain aspects of the training were fun, primarily jumping off a perfectly good cliff out in the middle of gawd’s beautiful nowhere. When it was fun, I LOVED IT, and never wanted to leave. I even loved eating the MREs. Those things are damn good. I don’t know what all this “Meals Rejected by Ethiopians” complaining is all about. But the times when I’d been out in the sun for about six hours straight, and when the show was being run like a Bogata cathouse, I was miserable and I HATED IT. I wanted go home.
The day land nav was easily the most miserable part of the whole affair. Again, it seemed to be dragged out in order to compensate for the lack of other available training, and as a consequence we were out in that damn sun for way too long, as evidenced by the heat casualties we experienced. To give cadet command credit though, the one thing they stressed the most all weekend was to always drink water. Regardless, the terrain we did our daytime land nav on was tremendously hostile. A more treacherous, critter-infested chunk of land I have never set foot on. I’ve made plenty of dumbass moves while hiking before, but until this weekend I never had the experience of taking one bad step and being tossed a hundred meters at high speed down a steep incline. It was as though the whole ground was so disturbed by the movement of one little rock that it decided to pick itself up and move, taking me and the guy I was buddied up with along for the ride. We had no business trying to get to the top of that particular hill in the first place (“If god wanted us at the top of this hill, he’d have miracled our asses up there by now.”), but we decided to go for it in spite of all the slippery rocks.
We tumbled down that damn hill ass-over-teakettle, trying desperately to avoid the obstacles on the way down. I just tried to maneuver my boots out in front of me and break whatever was in my path. For the benefit of my nav buddy, who was falling behind me, I would scream out the name of whatever obstacle we were both barreling towards at all speed, as I kicked wildly.
“TREE!”
*crack*
“CACTUS!”
*crunch*
“Arrgh! There’s a quill up my ass!”
“GOPHER!”
*splat*
Thankfully there were no casualties, but I’m going to be picking splinters out of my hands until after Christmas. There were other memorable moments: Miss Ellsworth in the tent next to me, having a bad dream and shrieking like a howler monkey at three in the morning; the guy who got a scorpion on his neck; leaning over the side of the cliff and having Sgt. Klein threaten to cut my rope; tossing my arm out at a 45 degree angle and coming down that cliff at 1000mph, and not screaming; the multitude of Full Metal Jacket refrences; the Zeppelin lookin' thing that floated behind a hill never to be seen again; the military humor (which is frankly the finest in the world); the Humvee ride from hell (now I know what my laundry feels like when I put it in the damn dryer); the MRE bartering. Good stuff, but overall I’m a little ambivalent about the whole thing. Some good, some bad. It beats sitting around at home though, I’ll tell you that.
Ellison, before I die, I'd like to hear the story of you and the D.I. with the broken back. Not now, you have better things to do than regale punkasses. But some day.
I’ll be back a little later.
Cadet Sluyter
Brian~ Don't wait for someone to jump you to practice with your pepper spray. In fact, when you change it out every two years (yes - pepper spray goes bad), you should buy two and empty one of them practicing with it. And you should also spend the extra five bucks to have a counter-agent on hand (in the real situation), for when you either back-spray yourself or an innocent bystander.
L.
Saw MULHOLLAND DR. this weekend, as well as FROM HELL. FROM HELL good. MULHOLLAND is fantabulous. As I tell all my friends.....I loved this movie, but if you don't like Lynch then don't bother. I loved this movie but I don't recommend it to the general populace so I don't bother trying to convince them it's great. You guys are different.......guess what....I loved this movie. When you all finally see it, I'm sure it will lead to miles and miles of reasoning relating to it's merits or it's shittiness (because as god is my witness, there will be plenty of people who think it is shitty and to them I give the big biteme). After all, FROM HELL has already taken up quite a bit of space on this board....and if FROM HELL can fill up a mile of stringed messages, MULHOLLAND DR. is going to take up days.
I just have one thing to say about my interpretation....take it with a grain of salt, because Lynch is a director who paints moods, not necessarily answers. He will never tell you what you saw, and you will never be 100% accurate (not counting his lawnmower epic last year), so what you make of it is what you make of it and it's right and it's wrong and as long as it feels good to your brainmatter then it has succeeded. So here's what I have to say about this movie:
+++++++++++++++++SPOILER+++++++++++++++SPOILER++++++++++SPOILER
They's all the same gal. No Diane and Betty and Rita and Camilla and spanish 'Crying' singer.....they are all the same gal.
Thank you.
-TODD
Michael~ re: Disc/Disk. In the immortal words of Bloom County's Opus, "Pbtbtbhtbhtbthhththththtttttt!" I know it's an acceptable second, it just brought to mind a very strange image for me. Dat's all.
L.
Re Penn and Teller. I can't say if they're better than Blue Man Group, but I did hear that they were the ones who _recommended_ BMG to the Vegas people. But if you see Penn and Teller, you will NOT be disappointed. They put on one of the best stage shows-- hilarious, horrifying, spooky (Teller's piece with a silhouette is a gem), and profoundly atheistic.
My big Encounter with Celebrity occurred with Penn and Teller. I was at a CSICOP conference, talking with a fellow from the DC group, when the small crowd we were in started walking to an isolated corner of the hotel. Suddenly I realize that I'd been lucky enough to be hanging with the magicians just when they all decided to go off away from the other skeptics and talk shop. Penn comes in with bags of McDonald's food to pass around. And I wind up enjoying a lunchtime with James Randi, Penn and Teller, Ray Hyman, Jamy Ian Swiss (one of the best close-up practitioners around) and Gerry Andrus, who's a legendary _inventor_ of magic illusions.
Re: whining about my writing career. I've done enough here to let others know that I Suffer Nobly. I won't add to it.
Heather asked, quite a while back, if I've ever fired a gun. I have. A few years back, some friends took me to a shooting range one afternoon. One of them owned a .44 Magnum complete with laser sight-- ithurt like HELL to fire the thing.
I don't own guns, and I doubt I ever will. That's because one year, I bought one of those pepper-spray sprayers to carry with me while walking through West Philly at night. I started _hoping_ that someone would give me shit so I'd have a chance to try it out. And I'm not an especially violent person. So I think I'll keep guns out of my life if I can.
One last item. People have been prefacing their remarks re harlan and Richard Dreyfuss with "BRIAN:" I just wanted to remind everyone that I'd never brought that subject up. T'was someone else.
Frank,
Obviously, 'Mulholland' is a more important film than 'From Hell'. I meant to see it last weekend but got redirected by the clan I was with. I'm pretty sure I'll be catching it next Saturday.
Thank you from the depths of my overly-nice heart, Harlan, for saying the Things That Needed To Be Said.
Jim, "disc" is secondary but acceptable. I've seen it around.
Chris,
I still think your friend was missing something; the extent of violence in the ghetto - which WAS quite real in Whitechapel - was never depicted this accurately in a film prior. This was the only version to REALLY capture the grime and squalor I'd read about a number of times. You could see from this why desease was such a problem back then. That aspect I was impressed by because it worked both as a real life recounting and in the context of myth.
Apart from that the movie is about Depp; where he was concerned it worked.
While at first the editing bothered me too I came to like it because it captured so well the sense of disorientation and chaos and lack of control in the filthy ghettos. Things weren't too predictable in this environment and the disjointedness, along with the constant assault of oblique camera shots, captured that feeling. The main thing that was really a repetition from past movies was the image of the "mad doctor" in a stove pipe hat. But Depp's psychic world and what it resigned him to was what pulled me away from the cliches. I felt for him. THAT'S what the movie was about. And that's why I liked that final shot of Depp at the end. I'll even go so far as to say if that hadn't been inserted as part of the denouement I doubt I'd have liked the movie nearly as much. I feel your friend got too hung up on the wrong aspects at the expense of more important ones (consider this: in all the 'Ripper' treatments we've seen Depp was a unique character; had your friend been paying attention to that he'd have seen something new. Too hung up on 'Jack', he was looking in the wrong place, because the movie really wasn't about 'Jack'). For me the strengths of the film outweighed the weaknesses.
All~
Has anyone here seen Penn & Teller Live? I have to decide between going back to see Blue Man Group or to see P&T. And I'm gonna do that donkey thing and starve halfway between two bales of hay if I don't make up my mind soon.
Suggestions?
L.
Well, Mr. Church, you must just take your movie-going for granted. Some of us have to travel over a half hour just to get to a theater carrying Mulholland Drive! Geez, I am looking forward to my probable move to L.A. or the environs next year. I'll be making the trek to see Mulholland this weekend.
I liked Training Day too and I think Richard Roeper's nasty review of the film is a perfect example of why I think this guy is an embarassment to Roger Ebert and to the memory of Gene Siskel. Roeper just doesn't like anything that seems "unrealistic" to him. He didn't like Dancer in the Dark because "nobody would do things like those characters did." And he didn't like Training Day because nobody could really be that bad a person.
No duh. Not every movie is set in this reality. Some are set in alternate worlds and not just those science-fiction and horror ones. Some story tellers don't care about realism and are concerned with something else altogether. Roeper just doesn't get that.
Pardon me for the mini-rant. That guy just bugs me. Trashing Dancer in the Dark and then raving over how great Planet of the Apes was. Argh!!!!
Does anybody know if "Justice League of America" will be carried on regular TV, for those of us who skip blithely through life without the benefit of cable?
Also, for your amusement, note that Michael Rosenbaum, who plays Lex Luthor on "Smallville," is providing the voice of Wally West (The Flash) for "Justice League."
Regards,
Joseph
Remember, it takes a special kind of woman person to handle the Ellison Jihad (smile).
What is this "From Hell" blather about? See a real film--David Lynch's new creep fest, "muholland Drive". The movie has the most complex/exasperating plot I have ever seen. I am still trying to crawl out of this dark hole, trying to find any smattering of light. This is one creepy/disturbing film experience. But recommended only for the the artistically open minded.
Also saw, "Training DAy". Can someone say, Denzel pick up your Oscar?? The scaryest performance ever, and a wonderful testimony to the police corruption rampant in La La Land.
Okay, I'm sure that most of you will lump this info under "unimportant", but, thanks to the auspices of my friendship with the TV Queen (a television columnist syndicated through Scripps_Howard, she's pretty funny, check her out at http://www.abqtrib.com/archives/diversions01/102001_diversions_tvqueen.shtml), I just got my sweaty little hands on the first three episodes of the new Justice League Cartoon, starting in November on the Cartoon Network. Fans of the comic book work done recently by Mark Waid and Grant Morrison will NOT be disappointed. It rocks! Pays plenty of attention to character development, and doesn't just dump seven superfolks on the audience. Plus it LOOKS great. Keep an eye peeled in November, I think you'll like it.
Gotta go, pumpkin bars in the oven,
Michael
Lynn: My hard drive is a frisbee, and my modem is powered by a hamster on a wheel. Isn't "disc" an acceptable variant of "disk"? (This isn't sarcasm, I really want to know.)
Peg: You're welcome. Believe me, I LIKE being thirty-five. I wouldn't go back to being a stupid, insecure kid if you PAID me to. Enjoy your age--you have the remnants of youth with the trimmings of wisdom.
I'm going to see FROM HELL tonight. I'll let you guys know what I think.
Jim
PS - I think there is a solution to this, which Lynn reminds Rick about occasionally - THREADS. (not to mention, merely having to name a topic about the dangers of intestinal discomfort might shame you out of starting it in the first place).
PS - I think there is a solution to this, which Lynn reminds Rick about occasionally....THREADS.
First, what I'm arguing here is my friend's position on "From Hell" not mine and that means you may feel free to attack it all you want to. :)
He understood the film was not billing itself as a historical recreation or even an attempt to provide a realistic speculation about the Ripper myth. He was fine with that.
His problem was that the take the film had on the Ripper myth was one that he has seen so many times before in Ripper lore. He saw no point in rehashing the same thing once again. He also referenced the Michael Caine film you talked about and said that had already covered the same ground so he saw no reason to do it again.
He would rather have seen something even more outlandish so long as it was different than the typical stuff he has read over and over in his research into the subject.
For someone like me who hadn't heard about the whole elaborate conspiracy theory, this was fresh material. And while I don't buy the story, I don't think that's the point at all. The reason I think the film is merely OK rather than something special is in the way it was told which was... well, OK, but nothing special.
I liked most of the sets and I thought they struck a perfect compromise on how to show the Ripper's killings. They didn't linger on the gore for the sake of voyeurism but also didn't just hide everything in the shadows - you saw enough to have to be confronted by the hatred and the viciousness that inspired those murders.
I didn't like some of the editing. As I already mentioned, I thought they were too self-conscious and lingered on set elements that a more confident film-maker would simply have left for you to look at rather than makings damn sure you notice them. I also thought the Nickles (sp?) gang leader was awful and seemed so comical in his threats to the women that he risked spoiling the atmosphere in his scenes. I understand that you need them as motivation for the girls continuing to work despite knowing about the Ripper (quite simply, if they don't work and get money, they'll also be killed) but I think they drew him as too extreme a caricature.
The relationship between Mary Kelly and the inspector also doesn't work at all but that's a minor quibble.
Like I said, it's OK and that makes it better than most movies out there. I'm glad I saw it. I expected better, though.
Jim & Harlan - Thank you, sort of, I guess. I can only add that I skim more and read less here than I used to - part chicken, part not good at delivery, and part not wanting to rain on others' parades. Who am I to squash electric extroversion, or perhaps more appropriately, electric exhibition? I just let the flow of conversation continue till I'm ready to listen in depth and join again.
LIFO:
Jim~ "Disc" space? Where are you storing your data anyway?! (Visions of some wetware attachment that's in prototype now, docks right below C3, titanium data feeds that tap directly into the neural transponder link from the cerebral cortex. Now, with Windows XP!)
Harlan~ What was the name of that brown-rice tea you recommended?
Brian~ It's called "coffee-flavored" coffee out here. And it's pretty damned bad when you can't go into a diner without getting Almond Vanilla Hazelnut Banana Chickpea Java-suisse, instead of FUCKING COFFEE-FLAVORED COFFEE. (I have a similar rant I'll spare you about orange juice flavored orange juice.) If you'd like a nice and simple addition to your plain cuppa, sprinkle fresh ground cinnamon on your grounds just before brewing. As to recipe sharing, y'all can go to FoodTV.com.
Rob~ I saw "From Hell" this weekend too and was underwhelmed. Robbie Coltrane is fabulous and completely outdoes Johnny Depp (who *can* act - he just can't chew scenery yet). They let the hook slip *way* too early in the film. Oh, and apparently if you can't act "EVIL" convincingly, all you need is all black contacts! And you're set! Yes, the cinematography was spectacular and the details really did convey the oppressive nature (on all fronts) of Victorian England. But the writing left a *lot* to be desired.
Regarding the theory put forth by the film, speaking as someone who finds behavioral psychology and criminal profiling a fascinating subject, and also as one who has studied several serial homicides (solved & unsolved), the propensity to theorize wildly around this case doesn't do the facts justice. And judging the facts in light of current knowledge and understanding about the nature of serial homicide, Occam's Razor as always provides. Someday I would like to see a film that emphasizes the science rather than the speculation.
And women do have a higher pain tolerance. Heaven knows if men had to endure child birth, there would be no question as to the legalities of abortion.
Mark Z.~ I rather liked "Pitch Black" myself. One of those little flicks with a surprisingly powerful undertow.
Bill F.~ ::And I'm still here. Which means the opportunity to make some course corrections towards the life we want is still possible. Sometimes I'm amazed how much my wife and I have experienced in the short time we've been together. Sure, there are a lot of things that just aren't do-able. Many people are no longer with us, and have no options whatsoever. And we do. 'Cause we're still here.::
Okay, cut to the quick whydontcha? Why is it that true wisdom always lands point down, right on top of the arch in your foot, resulting in an expletive filled outburst?
Going off to nurse my wounded paw and crunch my numbers in peace,
L.
*Sniff* Hmmm...burnt sulphur and ozone. Yep, Harlan must have posted again!
As I've noted before: I post unbelievably astute observations on Death, Infinity, and Man's Relationship To The Cosmos, and what do I get in response? The sound of whistling wind. I blurt out silly quips about music lists and vomiting, however, and the exegesis never stops. *Sigh* It's enough to give me a complex, I tell you...
Harlan: I WOULD bust Susan's chops, really I would, but I've done the same stupid, plaster-saint, silent-suffering, "Oh, I'm alright" routine, myself, so it's not really my place. I lived with an inguinal hernia for TEN YEARS before I had it treated with surgery; lived with pain so white-hot excruciating that it felt like someone was twirling a giant fork in my intestines; lived with attacks of such intensity that they confined me to bed, unable to even move. It still astonishes me that I accepted it for so long, without doing anything to REALLY correct the problem. Masochism: It's Not Just For Brits Anymore.
Scott/Heather/Anyone Else Who Has Written About The Pains O' Creation: DO NOT TAKE THIS AS A PERSONAL ATTACK. I REPEAT: DO NOT TAKE THIS AS A PERSONAL ATTACK. Got it? Good...
I, personally, think that endless ruminations on The Writer's Struggle To Create Art are fatuous, and take up valuable time and disc space. Fuzzy platitudes about "finding your own voice," "making a breakthrough," and "discovering yourself" may be true to the person who says them, but are just plain WORTHLESS to anyone else. Writing is such a solitary endeavor, and is so intensely personal, that to even ATTEMPT to articulate the mental process behind it will usually end in nothing more than self-indulgent blather. Scott, your last line holds everything you need to share: Read often and widely, and write. As for the rest, it doesn't really say much to me.
And I'm not saying that the craft of writing can't be taught or communicated, just that any lessons or thoughts should restrict themselves to the concrete, the knowable, and, well, THE CRAFT. You can learn more about writing from Harlan's post on the poor grammar of "sit down" and "off of" than anything else posted here, and that's the truth. Writing is, again, a CRAFT, and its rules are what allow the writer's spirit to really take flight. Don't go on about the wider picture of Theme and Intent--tell me about the proper use of verb tense, and how to avoid over-description, and when to use commas, and how to make dialogue sound realistic, and all the other nitty-gritty details that are vital to communicating ANYTHING of worth. As for Theme, Intent, and Personal Voice, well, if you're an intelligent, living human being, then they're already taken care of. We are ALL Prousts and Faulkners in our minds--our inner lives, thoughts and perceptions are so colorful, so rich in daring and execution, that the ONLY concern is HOW to find the proper written form to convey them. We all have the souls of writers--we need to learn how to have the hands, too.
And in case you're wondering, NO, I don't think I'm all that. To be perfectly honest, I have doubts whether I can write AT ALL. I've allowed myself to become side-tracked from writing for so long, that I fear my author's muscles have completely atrophied to spindles and strings. It's a tough road, is all I'm saying; we need to be nothing less than totally, scrupulously honest about it takes to be an artist. Be completely humble, and never get too self-satisfied. Hell, I'm sure even Harlan is still learning how to be a writer, fifty years into the game.
And, again, this is not a personal attack. Scott and Heather,
I LIKE reading your posts, and I don't want the both of you to think I'm ENJOYING writing this (well, maybe a little). I just had to get this off my chest (not "off of", see Harlan, I'm learning SOMETHING), that's all.
And that's ALL I'm going to say on the subject.
Mr. Hyde for an hour,
Jim
'From Hell' wasn't such that I would threaten lives to defend. But: I think you guys who try to wedge this into the "conspiracy theory" genre are missing it completely. This is a work about the myth (one that is, of course, a cliche). Remember 'The Lodger' with George Sanders? That was a myth treatment on the subject too. I don't even consider this a movie about Jack himself; it's about Johnny Depp's character. Remember, Lusk, who was at the center of the real account, was no where to be seen in this film. This is NOT supposed to be a 'history' movie (for that go to the tv movie treatment with Michael Caine; now, THAT was pushing itself as a theory). I mean, in case you hadn't noticed, there was supernatural stuff in here. Do you actually believe they'd be touting this as their theory about the subject with that component in the story? If this were to be taken seriously I wouldn't have accepted this film either, because I read a great deal about the real account in the past too. This movie is about a fictional character. It was more like 'Kolchak meets Johnny Depp'; it was an 'X-Files' outing. That's what it was supposed to be. On the other hand, I do agree about Heather Graham; I was leaning over to a friend at one point telling her, "only in a Holl'rwood movie would you see beautiful whores". Do you remember the old 19th century photos of the whores? They looked like men from a butcher shop in drag! But like I said this WAS meant to be a fictional treatment, so I came to accept it. The factual elements they DID weave into the myth, like "the juwes are not the ones to be blamed for nothing" scrawlings and the way authorities washed it off for fear of riots and scapegoating, the pimps of the streets and daily violence going on in Whitechapel, and even John Merrick did add a dimension that all previous 'Jack' movies were lacking - even those that were trying to theorize.
As for the "refreshing twist" at the end I was referring to: Jeezus, man, ya'll completely missed my point. I'm not talking about "who it turned out to be" or the cliche involvement of the Royal family! Had nothing to do with Jack's outcome at all. Without my spilling it for those who haven't seen it, I'm referring to, literally, the final shot on Depp. Remember the closing scene? It was one I didn't QUITE expect. Turned out not to be an ending that was happy for all. THAT'S the "twist" I'm talking about.
Hey, listen. It's cool if a viewer has some problems with this movie. There are several I have too. Subtlety is not what it's about, that's for sure. But it's wrong to knock it on the basis of a misinterpretation. Understand the film's intent, what the film is doing, what it's about. THEN determine whether it works or not. This was a 'myth' treatment on the subject - like 'The Lodger' - not a revisiting of the actual account. Hence, it shouldn't be evaluated as such.
Brian:
re Dreyfuss and Ellsison. I’m probably wrong but I faintly believe that I think that I dimly recall that I might once have read somewhere that Richard Dreyfuss’s portrayal of his character in “The Goodbye Girl” was in someway based upon Ellison. Having finally received my “voice from the edge” tapes I’ll be in a position to tell when next it's on TV. And Mr. Ellison – it’s pronounced “Kov-un-tree” not “Kuv-un-tree”. Otherwise all which ways your readings are a tour de force. For which I now expect my own missile. Oh dear, singing “Somme time and the living’s uneasy”.
Chris L:
As for WHO did it in “From Hell”. Moore is on record that it doesn’t matter who did it. What Moore was doing was creating a new matrix. In the appendices to the novel Moore acknowledges his sources. Indeed, in the book we know from the beginning who did it. Instead Moore’s intention is bring it to life, to explore all the possible connections, from whores to queen, secret societies, the occult power of London’s architecture, the lasting psychic imprint of blood. Obviously a film can’t cope with this so instead we get a whodunit focusing on a few of the characters. Think of what might happen if someone tried to make a film of “V”; “From Hell” by Moore and Campbell IS the equal of Pynchon..
Brian:
As for the actual conspiracy theory - the actual facts of a conspiracy theory are irrelevant and usually rather puerile when looked at in detail. What is interesting is that the paranoia of conspiracy theorists is a sort of equivalent of religious revelation. In a world without God, without the traditional divine narrative, paranoia offers a new epistemological schemata. Paranoia will permeate your life with a new light, irradiating every detail and bestowing upon it a secret meaning, a new immanence. Every event acquires an new history. In a world that otherwise threatens to become chaos a conspiracy theory offers a hidden story that ties all the disparate facts of life and its events together. You even get to evangelise, spreading the gospel. Moore’s work achieves all of this by recounting it all on a lived human basis, the day to day events of life tie it all of the larger themes and paranoid conceits together. Unlike JFK which was mainly people telling each other things. Show don’t tell.
Oh, I just remembered something I'd wanted to ask. Someone posted about sharing recipes. Well, here's a more specific question on that front.
I just finished reading Mark Prendergast's _Uncommon Grounds_, a history of coffee, and I've started brewing from fresh-ground once again. I tend to like my coffee very strong, and more or less "straight," i.e., none of that candy-flavored crap they sell as "gourmet" coffee. (I take cream and sugar, tho.)
But in the spirit of the recipe for Ellison Coffee Diabolique (which, in one of Harlan's rare lapses, calls for _instant_ coffee), I'd like to ask if anyone could recommend recipes for homemade spiced coffees.
Harlan, not to sound like a friggin' sycophant, but....that was the best goddamn, muthuhfucking posting I've seen on this board in a long long time. Beautiful. Terrific. Sick of men being treated like Dagwood Bumstead fumbling along and requiring the wisdom of the goddes "WIFE"! Huzzah! (I swear Debbie I really love ya I really do). Smashing your foot down on some of the anal babbling (babbling anuses?) that insist that we change the topic to "when was the last time you puked, took a shit and masturbated while.....hands and details please"? Whoo Hooooo. I love it. You are a man after my own heart...and I don't mean that in a gay way either, not that there's anything....ahhhh, stupid teevee joke). Let us pontificate on the art of writing....fuck it....shaddup and write and send it out and stop thinking and yakking about it so much!
OK, so this posting is just as nonsensical and time-wasting as any other posting....but I had to say it. You put a great big everloving grin on my face today, Mr. Ellison, and I thank you for it.
Hugs and kisses.
-TODD
To Harlan, re your comments on our "Listen to Susan" notes. It's not that we want to see you as a rambunctious man-child who needs a steady woman's hand to keep him from getting into trouble. This is just our way of sucking up to _Susan_.
On, and I live in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. (I don't fill in that data anymore because, well, it didn't seem important.)
Re Mission to Mars. I'd figured it was a movie to avoid when the coming attractions had the immortal line of dialogue, "That DNA looks human." I wound up watching the whole thing much later (I had no choice, really). GOD, what an awful, awful movie.
I'm sure most of us recall Harlan's marvelous take-out on Peter Hyams' _Outland_. Well, any one of us could work up something similar for _Mission to Mars_. The only possible use that this movie could _possibly_ have would be as follows: to strap the screenwriters and De Palma into dentists' chairs, and force them to watch it over and over until they understand that they are UNFIT to ever do any kind of creative work as long as they live.
However, since Mark Zug's trying out SF movies, I'll toss out a recommendation. Try to track down a copy of _Phase IV_, a now-neglected marvel directed by the graphic designer Saul Bass. The idea's simple-- ants develop an intelligent hive-mind, and two scientists attempt to deal with it. But it's done with a high degree of intelligence, and there are scenes that are unsettling on levels that most movies don't even _try_ to reach.
I hope that my recommending this will offset the Low Point achieved by my note regarding Choices in the Bathroom.
Re From Hell, and conspiracy theories. I liked Moore and Campbell's work a lot, but I have to agree on a distaste for stories that rely on detailed accounts of Ancient Conspiracies. Part of the reason comes from a distaste for Robert Anton Wilson. I used to enjoy his writing, but he did a book attacking the skeptics called _The New Inquisition_ that was so shoddily researched, so poorly argued, and so amazingly mean-spirited, that it colored my perceptions of the guy's writing.
The other part of my dislike comes from running into too many people who'll take a fictional account of a "conspiracy" as literal truth. The assumption is that the author has done the research, but the observation that the author's made choices for dramatic effect never comes up. And since so many of these people like to adopt the attitude that they understand what's "really" going on, well, I don't have a lot of enthusiasm for conspiracy stories.
(I did enjoy _JFK_, but I don't buy Stone's thesis at all.)
Chris,
To be fair, the "twist" in "From Hell" is several years old (in this context) anyway, since it's an adaptation.
My Canadian friends,
Could someone with access to the CBC do me a huge favor? There is a documentary on at 8:00 Toronto time, Wednesday night, that I would love to see. It's titled "Witness: City of Dreams," and if anyone would tape it for me, I would be greatly grateful. I'll reimburse postage, and I'd also tape anything you might like down here in the States and send it on to you.
Thanks,
Joseph
I was disappointed by "From Hell" but perhaps I had unrealistic expectations. I thought it was OK and was carried by the usual superior performance of Mr. Johnny Depp. Heather Graham was pitifully miscast but the movie survived that. I was disappointed by the silly plot (I hadn't read Moore's and Campbell's graphic novel) - there is nothing duller to me, in general, than conspiracy theories.
I saw the film with a friend who is a "Ripper-phile" and he detested the movie. He even walked out of the theater at one point. He had to take a piss but he says he woulda waited if he didn't hate the movie so much.
According to him, the whole "twist" the film takes on the Ripper story has been done to death by Ripper authors. I will not spoil anything for those who haven't seen the film yet but my friend said all he could think was "What? This nonsense again? Like the first thousand times this was written wasn't enough."
For me, it was the first I had heard of this particular theory about the Ripper and though I found it implausible, it was interesting enough for me to enjoy the film to a modest degree.
I was less than thrilled by the self-consciousness of the film, especially at the beginning. The set design was lovely but it felt to me as if they needed to linger on every part of the set just to make sure you could see how cool it was. "See, look, some guy pissing on a wall - London was filthy back then - see!"
The reviews for this film are interesting. Ebert and Roeper both loved it and Etnertainment Weekly gushed over the film. Salon savaged it and the Hughes Brothers and most other reviews are mixed.
Harlan,
Dooming myself to the receiving end of the ol' ultra-violence, I'm gonna tell ya straight off I liked 'RoboCop' (only the 1st film, of course), with its satirical edges. It's the only Verhoeven film from the States I do like. Now if you want me to come into the office, that's just nifty, fine n' dandy. (I'm sure I'll get a solid back-hand - I can hear the sound effect even now - over 'From Hell,' too. But I'm tough, see? Call me Leo Gorcey or Wallace Beery or a chicken hawk but I kin takes it, fella).
Re: your obstinate wife. At first I was going to express amusement over your 'subliminal resistance', "I was never in the hospital until I married Susan". But it seems to be true: women tend to be more obstinate when dealing with pain or ailment. Lana AND her mother complain of pain and discomfort all the time, then do nothing. They never see a doctor when they should. On the OTHER end of the issue I believe women are more resistant to pain than guys. I can take a hard blow pretty well; but when it comes to pulling my hair (from ANY location of my body), pinching me, piercing me, slapping me or tickling me...well...I guess I'm a fagged-out weenie. What can I say?
Rob,
*WARNING - RANK SPECULATION*
I had to enjoy Ebert's comment last weekend that the whole supposed-pilot-for-ABC thing was simply Lynch's way of getting some scratch to get "Mulholland Drive" off the ground, and he knew that it would never in a million years be accepted as a pilot. An interesting theory, which I remain horribly amused by.
So, anyone heard anything about an Arthur Miller movie titled "Focus," apparently starring William H. Macey and Laura Dern? Saw a poster for it over the weekend, and was intrigued (the day Macey decides to play Willy Loman, I will hop on a plane to anywhre and sit in the snow for three days to be first in line for tickets).
Regards,
Joseph
What's really breaking me up about 'Mulholland Drive', David, is that it is Lynch's biggest critical success outside 'The Straight Story'; ironicallly, because meaning is more lost than in any film he's done. "His other movies were weird but they were given narrative context and therefore didn't work as well. This film is a series of abstractions that make NO sense at all. I think it's his best!" I'm not sure if I follow THEIR logic any better than Lynch's but I HAVEN'T seen 'Mulholland' yet and I'm anxious to. It was originally a pilot for a new series but the little brains of the executives at ABC just couldn't handle it. So, Lynch got French backing for theatrical release and it's already winning awards.
I just saw 'From Hell'(Jack's signature on his early letters); better than I expected to be. A much stronger mix of fact and fiction than I expected. You'll be surprised by some "artifacts" that pop up. The claustrophobic Whitechapel ghetto (emphasized with a dizzying roaming camera) and the politics surrounding the Ripper killings are VERY well done. Beautiful film to look at. Splices of 8mm are used a couple of times enhanced by CGI and it looks exceedingly cool. And I love Depp as always. Ian Holm, who played the perfidious robot physician way back in 'Alien', plays a frail-looking old man and it took me a long time to recognize him. The ending has a very refreshing twist - one that you kind of take home with you.
The soundtrack is very noisy; occasionally, although I understand what they were trying to do, I "disagree" with it. Instead, I "would've done this" or "I would've done that". You know: we ALWAYS have ideas that would've worked better than theirs. But it's a minor problem. What I DID find interesting about the soundtrack - as I've been telling people - is that rarely does the music stop. In the entire movie's run it pauses for a few seconds now and then. But das it. In that respect it was interesting (it was a method used in Star Wars).
I'm planning to take another gander at it to see if I like it as much; I could be over-touting it. But at this point I say check it out.
Now, if I can keep the internet monkey-brain from taking over again, and somehow post like a civilized being (and not doulbe or triple or quadruple post):
I intended to quote you, Scott, thus: "Usually the character is a woman. It's about the only other unifying element in these stories. It doesn't take a degree in psychology to see what's going on here. I've always thought of the creative process as being feminine in nature, not merely because creation can equal childbirth (pretty simplistic trope, there), but because the actual act involves lateral rather than linear thinking. It's thinking around corners, not through them. Editing is, at least for me, a very linear process."
And you, Barney, thus: "WHY do they keep letting DePalma make movies? "Untouchables" was a fluke. Who do I have to fuck to get him to stop making movies???"
Evidently < these thingies tell the HEBullboard to please delete everthing enclosed within. I live, I learn, I grow.
Mark Z
STRAIGHTENING OUT YOUR ERRORS:
FIRST, I did not send Ms. Lovatt a hand puppet. Ms. Lovatt apparently doesn't know when to mitigate her frivolities. Ms. Lovatt also makes assumptions that are off the chart, such as surmising that my lawsuit against AOL/RemarQ/Critical Path had anything to do with pornography stuff from elsewhere. This is STRICTLY a matter of internet piracy of copyrighted material, nothing else. Oh, and by the way, Ms. Lovatt: when you get a spare non-logorrheic moment, why don't you thank Susan for the comp HERC membership, and the accompanying cassette? Which will firm you up for the surprise thanks you'll soon be visiting on anonymous Webderlanders who have done you a surprise solid, yet to surprisingly hit your doorstoop, much to your surprise.
SECOND, Barney is finally going senile, because he's heard me recount the tale half a dozen times. The meeting I had was with the director of STARGATE, INDEPENDANCE DAY and GODZILLA, Roland Emmerich, not with Paul Verhoeven, whom I've never met, but whose body of work has come to dismay me considerably. This was a man who, in his native Netherlands, produced a clutch of films that bowled me over, made my "best of" lists, and heralded the development of a major European-sensibility cineaste. Then he came here, and we have ben subjected to ROBOCOP, STARSHIP TROOPERS and other moron movies that are so 180 turned-around from where he was, how he worked, what his concerns seemed to be, that I have written him off as yet another of those hypocritical Eurotrash ponces who denigrate Hollywood and its blandishments...until they've wallowed a while, have grabbed the golden ring themselves, and find themselves eagerly turning, like the ring, into base metal. I have never met Verhoeven, Barney.
THIRD, I know there is vast amusement in pretending that all husbands are simulacra of Dagwood Bumstead, but before y'all run too far amuck with this "listen to Susan" mythology, let me point out that I've been taking care of myself body and soul since I was about twelve or thirteen. For fifty-plus years before Susan I managed not only to survive, but to prosper, as well. With the exception of the usual minor bodily torques that twist us all--piles, herpes, tonsils, baling-hook rips, knife wounds, broken noses, etc.--I was never in a hospital till I married Susan. And I do listen to her. On this lone occasion, I was taking a babystep away from maddening bed-rest, to do a little work upstairs, and SOMEONE--I name no names--had left items that I could stumble over, in an otherwise clear area. I stumbled, pitched forward, and whacked myself. That, added to the TWO--count 'em--TWO viruses playing hopscotch in my system, contributed to my malaise. If you REALLY want to chide someone for not acknowledging when they're in pain, or sick, or need to stay in bed, direct your well-intentioned but misplaced tsk-tsks at The Electric Baby. Susan not only has spinal pain from a fused disc ALL THE TIME, but post-mandibular whatchacallit, and other miseries, and the woman refuses to cop to any of it. She lives on Advil and suchlike, but when you ask her how she feels, you always get that goddam disingenuous "I'm fine." She walked around with a broken bone in her foot for two months before I found out about it. And she STILL won't go to a surgeon to have it repaired. You want to bust someone's chops for acting like a macho idiot, bust my old lady's. I complain. I see doctors. Susan does Pilates and suffers in silence with a stiff British upper lip, which SHE THINKS is de rigeuer. Further, Dagwood sayeth not.
FOURTH, Matt Wilkins sat with one of my dearest, lifelong friends, Ben Bova, who is one of the finest men I've ever known. His miseries-to-relate of working on "The Starlost" were manifold, to be sure; but Ben will be the first to admit that they were a walk in the park compared to the unrelenting shitstorm through which I trudged with those muthahfuggahs at CTV and Paramount and the CFTO studios in Canada. I adore Canadians, absolutely, but those pricks were no better or more honest than their American counterparts. You can pick up PHOENIX WITHOUT ASHES, if you don't know the story, or the essay that served as intro to that book, reprinted elsewhere in my non-fiction.
FIFTH, and we're back in Ms. Lovatt's domain of confusion again. The problem with your queries, sweetie, is that you come to the Town Meeting an hour late, after we've been discussing the new rates for the garbage collection, and after the matter has been discussed to mdeath, you pop in, raise your hand, and ask, "What's all this about garbage collection?" That is to say, there is nothing obscure, arcane, subcutaneous, or undercurrnted about my not appearing on "Politically Incorrect" for a year or two, if my suspicions are correct. Most of the people, including the producer, Scott Carter, who knew me on the show, left and went elsewhere. A new cadre, with their own "favorites" came in. It happens all the time. I THINK that explains it. But as I said, I'll find out otherwise, if "otherwise" there was, on November 20th, when we tape the show. Which ought to've been good enough for you, Ms. Lovatt. I mean no opprobrium when I suggest that not EVERY vagrant thought or whimsy that passes through one's head is necessarily fodder for posting. And, if I may venture a personal, it is just this farrago of idle blather that turned me off the internet to begin with. Until recently, I'd seen this site as an oasis free of the conversational persiflage that I'd encountered the very few times I'd been exposed to chat-rooms. It was a place where folks had matters of some depth to discuss. Whether one has vomited while taking a crap positions very low on my list of Matters of Import. And I'm not even remotely suggesting that the subject of spewing whilst pinching off a loaf isn't a Proper Subject for Discussion. I'm merely proffering the observation that--as John Gardner said--it is the presence in the world of High Art that makes theworld safe for Pop Art. Am I getting through here, without pissing anyone off? It's a matter of proportion, I think. And, I think, this website is approaching an imbalance. Ms. Lovatt, I swear on the bones of Ba'al, as soon as I obtain any additional information on the two-year drought of appearances on PI, I will hie meself hence and clue you in. Till then, attempt not to knot thy knickers.
SIXTH, but not correcting anything. Brian Siano. If it's not too personal (and forgive me if I've read the answer in one of your posts and have forgotten), where do you live? That is, what city and state?
SEVENTH, I swear that just the last two weeks' postings among you lot "about writing" are more longwinded and unnecessarily convoluted than the total of ALL the "process" conversations I've had with other GOOD, other PROFESSIONAL, other CAREER writers in the past decade. What you will discover, if any of you ever get your heads out of your insecurities, is that "real" writers, when they get together, seldom have these kinds of workshop discussions. Not to damp your enthusiasms, but ferchrissakes, kids, stop all this querulous crap and just write some shit and send it out to market and wait for the acceptances or rejections. This ain't the Arrivistes Sodality here.
Warmly, humanely, with your Best Interests at Heart, I remain, yr. extremely well-spoken pal, Harlan
>
Scott. I suggest merely that you are lonely. I'm not intending to be the least bit flip here. I recognize a motive or two of my own, in a history of creating what I wish to see real.
>
Barney: Hi yourself, and thanks for the welcome and the warm words. Consider: There's nothing like DePalma imagery for helping to visualize someone's lurid, wished-for-fate -- someone like Jerry Falwell, for instance. Somehow skill and taste would ruin it...
And there's also humor. I must share the moment when I discovered for stone-dead-certain "Mission to Mars" was a movie to avoid: It was a clip on the radio. The rescue mission orbiting Mars was training their instruments on the surface, probing the site of the colony that had come to grief. "I think I see... graves," someone said. "Yes -- graves." Solemn, tense pause. "But... there's only twelve graves -- and there was thirteen colonists." Then in the tone of someone giving out an incredibly creepy revelation: "When the last one died -- THERE WAS NO ONE LEFT TO BURY THE BODY."
I just couldn't take an entire movie that frightening, y'see.
BTW, I just saw "Pitch Black." Surprisingly good. Very much liked the fallible heroine, and it had a convincing and harrowing spaceship-crash sequence.
It's "Red Planet" this evening. Wish me luck.
Mark Z
Brian Siano-
That was very nice of you to say that, thank you. I will admit that when the constant "one-step-forward, five-steps-back" gets me down, I remind myself of a few things.
That no matter how frustrating it gets, it was my wife who found me, had to pull herself together and alert the EMTs. It was my mother who had to endure the quadruple bypass a year ago(along with a half-century of my old man - some people have heart conditions & ulcers, some people are carriers). I've been on the receiving end of "downsizing" and "restructuring" before and, unlike thousands of others, I'm still getting a paycheck (the article in last week's Times on 'workplace bullies' helped too).
And I'm still here. Which means the opportunity to make some course corrections towards the life we want is still possible. Sometimes I'm amazed how much my wife and I have experienced in the short time we've been together. Sure, there are a lot of things that just aren't do-able. Many people are no longer with us, and have no options whatsoever.
And we do. 'Cause we're still here.
I have similar mixed feelings about Fincher. "The Game" was a flash in the pan (other John Fowles fans have wondered whether the plot was inspired by _The Magus_, but I'm not convinced); "Seven" was riveting but a little too grimly manipulative; and I thought the first half of "Fight Club" was fabulous but felt cheated and angry after the ending. 'Nuf said.
Anybody here seen David Lynch's latest, "Mulholland Dr." yet? Boy, and I thought he was weird BEFORE, but "Blue Velvet" and even "Eraserhead" are models of clarity by comparison! Seems like Lynch is doing something of the same sort of thing Greenaway tried to do (and where has HE been lately?).
One more thing. Has anyone been watching Richard Dreyfuss's new TV series, "The Education of Max Bickford," on Sunday nights? His voice -- his speech patterns -- in this show remind me a bit of Ellison....
I'm about to be late for work, Scott, so I'll be brief....
THANK YOU! I like it!
Heather
more later...
Part 3 Of Long-Winded Exegesis: Our Hero Returns Home, Only To Find That's Where He Should Have Been All Along, Shrugs, And Has Some Chicken-Noodle Soup For Lunch
You wanna know the really weird thing about all this? (I know, I'm like one of those Born-Again people--I had an amazing experience and I try to share it until everyone else begins visualizing my bloody, painful, protracted death.)
I've already written about it.
I have (literally) a whole trunkful of stories, and not only that, but three boxes in my closet, too. And that's with a couple thousand pages that were thrown out (without my permission) on the move from New York to Colorado, Home Of John Elway's Staggeringly White Teeth. Every now and then, I take the opportunity to reread some of it, to see how far I've come.
Most of it is shit of such low quality that I would like to give my earlier self a good strangle for having written it. But I had to do it; it was part of the learning process.
Still, every now and then, I come across a story in which the protagonist is a person, an otherwise ordinary or unskilled person, who has a gift, who learns to use it, and who eventually gets out of his or her predicament. The details don't matter; it's the basic plot, or a basic plot element, of a number of my stories, the first written when I was fourteen, coming up to last year. Sometimes the character isn't the protagonist, but I know the pattern and can recognize him or her right away.
Usually the character is a woman. It's about the only other unifying element in these stories.
It doesn't take a degree in psychology to see what's going on here. I've always thought of the creative process as being feminine in nature, not merely because creation can equal childbirth (pretty simplistic trope, there), but because the actual act involves lateral rather than linear thinking. It's thinking around corners, not through them. Editing is, at least for me, a very linear process. These are of course heinous generalizations that are an insult to most every human being on the planet, but I made my associations before common sense caught up with me.
Guess what THAT story was about? An unwanted young woman who, because she has wings (not the world's most original plot device, but, again, I was writing for an audience of one), comes to feel gifted rather than outcast when she learns to use them properly.
I do perceive a theme catching up with me here (and now I can finally stop talking about myself, thank GOD): My subconscious not only knows what it's doing, it's been doing it, or trying to do it for years, and, feeb that I am, I never noticed it.
Going all the way back to you again, Heather, I've got a theory (I've ALWAYS got a theory)--you've got to imitate. You've got to read widely. You have to practice your writing skills by DOING. And you have to get your conscious mind out of the way and develop a really good toolkit so that, when something finally comes through, it will be able to make itself known on the page.
There. I'm done.
Any thoughts?
One Writer's Thoughts (format: glurge-r-iffic), Part 2
OK, so there I was, banging my head into the wall in the name of good writing.
Nothing happened.
The only things that had much life to them were the things I tossed off as exercises--little one page short-short humor pieces, character sketches, whatever. The things that I did mostly to keep my typing fingers active on slow days. Occasionally, life would spill over into my music columns, especially when defying "rules" about what I was supposed to cover. My category was "Rock." I took that as an excuse to write about copyright issues--hey, rock bands are suing Napster, perfect justification--about the presidential election--hey, Tipper Gore had the Parents' Music Resource Center, it was a legitimate connection--and I constantly violated the "rules" by using some space at the end of the column to recommend books, movies, and many non-rock albums, since I wasn't supposed to write about jazz or blues, things that I was aching to cover about 60% of the time. Last year, during the week before Xmas I did an entire column making fun of the process of writing a column, and, because I MENTIONED rock and roll in passing, nobody could say a word.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, okay, but what's all this bullshit? What about breakthroughs?
Call it argumentation through misdirection. (It's a good technique that all essay writers should know.) You can't consciously try to create a style until you've already gotten one. I had a style. I needed something to say with it.
I think I've got it now.
So, getting all the way back to YOU, Heather--I think it's important for us to put what we're thinking or feeling on the page. I think that produces writing which, by its nature, is original, no matter what technical skill the writer has. Technical skills are practiced by doing and by reading. Subject matter and point-of-view are something the writer already has.
The only problem then is that the conscious mind gets in the way (as I have been yammering all night here). If I stop editing while I'm working, the work comes out in better shape. If I'm NOT thinking about what I'm doing, but just working (or trying not to wet my pants, ha-ha), the subconscious can go to work with all those tools I've slowly been building up over the years. It's what is referred to as "waiting for the muse to arrive." When it's there, I can take a vacation in the world I'm writing about and let it do its job.
The third and final part to arrive shortly.
Okay, David Fincher. He has an exceptional understanding of film technology, and there are times when he really seems to be pushing for new cinematic vocabularies. That shot in _Fight Club_ where Ed Norton strolls through his apartment as Ikea catalog copy appears was one of the more original things I'd seen in a long time. When he makes a film, he's clearly trying to do something truly new and unique with it. I think he'd be a marvelous director to take on material that's not readily translatable to cinema, because he clearly has the imagination to depict things that most people would probably explain with dialogue or really clumsy technique.
But what bugs me about Fincher is that I don't get a sense of a particularly personal artistic stance. I don't mean that he should be making personal films. It's just that I don't think we can look at his films so far, and get _any_ idea of how he sees the world beyond a range of film stocks and lighting techniques. I think he's certainly an artist as a film director, in the sense that he will go beyond mere craft and try to accomplish something new.
If I see a film by Kubrick, or Fellini, or Woody Allen or Scorsese or even Kevin Smith, I get the sense that the film is that man's meditation on some subject. But when I go to a David Fincher movie, I'm expecting adventurous cinematic technique and _nothing else_. He'll do a fine job, and I'll probably be astounded at what he does with the film, but I don't think he has much to say.
Heather: Hello, it's me, "The Pee Guy." (While we're all nattering about the Kids In The Hall, I'd like to add that that moniker reminds me very much of having been stuck in a KITH sketch. "It's the Pee Guy! Forgive me, I'm only... crushing your head!") I watched far too much television when I was in high school.
As for why Harlan hasn't attained Messiah-like status with the general public: I think you answered your own question. People don't always like to be told when the Emperor is naked, and Harlan is not only willing to point this out, he's willing to bring the point home and give him a good kick in the ass to boot. To put it another way: Truth-tellers have never been hugely popular. Tom Paine wasn't exactly a widely feted and decorated hero after the American Revolutionary War ended and he continued to criticize various injustices, ya know.
Dept. Of Style, Your Own, Dept.: As has often been said, you need to know the rules before you know how to break them effectively. You have to do an awful lot of reading AND writing to know when and how to do that. I tried doing an awful lot of experimental writing in high school which fell flat; I had learned the basic rules and not much else, and as a consequence, stories go down the hole and go BOOM. (Actually, they fell with a thud rather lacking in resonance, not a BOOM, but that's neither here nor there.)
I'm just thinking "out loud" here; trying to respond to your musings, rather than trying to lecture, and these are only my opinions.
Still, after I reread my story today, I know exactly why it was a breakthrough. I finally managed, for the duration of the story, to capture exactly my own feelings and ideas. There were always times in the past when that would happen for a scene or two, but never for an entire narrative. I was stuck relying on what I knew about stringing together words to make up the gaps, and I didn't notice it myself. I assumed those epiphanies were isolated because of their very nature.
They may not come along every Wednesday, but now I know that they can appear for more than 1,000 words at a stretch.
Did I do this consciously? No. I didn't sit down with a nice, supercilious grin on my face and say, "I believe I'll take it to the next level today, Baxter." Nope.
It just HAPPENED.
So--tying back in with your musings--I think those kinds of things happen, not when you're reading your favorite authors and thinking about whether or not you'd like to be like them, but when the conscious mind has been gotten out of the way and the subconscious can do its thang. (Not a new idea either, I hasten to add, not by a long shot, but now I finally understand what it means on more than a purely rational level.) You're absolutely right, but I'm not sure you can arrive at that point via conscious effort to get there. So--how DO we get to that point?
In high school, I routinely wrote stories purely for my own amusement, or, occasionally, for someone else's amusement, if I knew them very well, and if I WANTED to write for them. Thus, by definition, even though all the stories were derivative rip-offs of the things I loved to read myself, they all honestly reflected my own concerns.
Later on, because of the well-meaning "advice" I recieved from pros, I wrote with an eye on the market. Fantasy? I can send that to Gordon Van Gelder at F & SF, perhaps he'll take it. This is okay--IF the story has already been written! Except, wanting to get into a "pro" publication, I thought about it from the start. The result?
I didn't get nothin' into no pro pub. No, a great deal of it was just as feeble as what I wrote in high school. My mechanical skills were improved, but now I was focussed on reinventing the wheel, or gaining attention, or maybe getting a few extra bucks here and there.
Dumb! Dumb! Dumb!
So, not being entirely stupid, I figured out that this was a bad thing. I struggled to Invent My Own Voice, to write for the sake of quality. This was at least a personal goal, but as long as Mr. Conscious Mind was present, nothing much of note got done.
These thoughts shall be continued very shortly.
Scott Miller
Barney~ re: Starship Troopers. For the past fifteen years of my life, I've either lived next to a military base, been married to the military, or been involved with ex-military. I can't begin to tell you how many career military men and women I've known that attribute their choice of service to that book. So Heinlein wasn't the only one taking it seriously. And frankly, I don't think I want the people responsible for defending our country to feel any less passionate about their job than the passion that is exhibited in those pages.
And "Fight Club" was a 9 out of 10 on my personal movie scale. Something about the repressed beast of hollow suburban existence that appeals to my own twisted sense of reality. It made me want to go out and beat the living shit out of something (and I'm a girl). My great American novel is going to be in a similar vein, only more Lovecraftian. Mediocrity in the middle classes laying the fecund foundations for an invisible empire, morbid and fascinating.
Succumbing to the Sunday blues,
L.
Joseph,
I agree completely with your take on Fight Club. The first act is magnificent and then it simply degenerates into pretentious, incoherent nonsense. I think Roger Ebert reviewed Fight Club very well and, of course, he has taken a lot of flak for it from the movie's die-hard fans. I can understand why some people love the film and I admire it for trying to do something special. I just think it failed.
Fincher is a tough one to figure out so far. Seven is pretty strong from start to finish though Brad Pitt's odd performance is either dull-witted or brilliant in its restraint. I tend to lean to the latter but I'm not sure. The Game has some great moments - esp. the "White Rabbit" sequence but the story is just silly and the last few minutes of the movie ruin anything positive the film accomplished to that point.
I think Fincher is definitely one to watch and I'll be surprised if he doesn't wind up being one of the better directors around but so far his work is a real mixed bag.
Re "Puppies of Purgatory.." I can't take credit for it. It's from a routine by the Kids in the Hall, where Kevin McDonald plays Simon Milligan, the world's most pathetic black magician.
Re Harlan liking the Clash? Great! The man still has good taste in rock! I have a friend who used to work with them, and is still in touch with Joe Strummer, and she likes Harlan's stuff, so I'll tell her.
Re Fight Club: I thought it was one of the best movies I'd seen in a while. Wonderfully dark sense of humor, especially as it presented the slide from self-help movements to militia-style derangement. The people quoting "Tyler Durden" just don't realize what it really _is_ they're quoting, which makes the humor even funnier.
Brian
A) Spoilers. My personal opinion is that if a person hasn't seen a movie, then anything they don't know would be a spoiler. So, I err on the side of caution. I mean, I certainly don't want to known what happens at the end of "Rebecca."
B) "Fight Club." Brilliant first third of a movie, followed by some of the worst stuff I've seen in a while. Complete waste of resources and talent. The first third, though, is as good of stuff as I've ever seen on screen.
Regards,
Joseph
*** Justin & Joseph *** All Paul Verhoeven all the time. Justin, the fact that you could even conceive of such a channel marks you as a twist of the highest order. Or a mason, whichever. Although there are parts of that movie that are real hard to turn off. It's so goddamned over the top that it somehow actually manages to capture a little of Heinlein's tone. I've always thought there was a bit of "I know I'm taking this way too far" Swiftian mockery going on in that book. I asked Harlan about it once and he assured me that Heinlein was dead serious when he wrote it and some of the elements that we [i] find humorous were not to be taken that way as far as Heinlein's intentions went. Since Harlan KNEW Heinlein I'm hardly in a position to naysay any of it. Plus, when that book came out I think I was in kneepants watching Jonny Quest cartoons so it's literary reception was somewhat off my radar. And Christ, if there going to spend money remaking crap, why can't they spend about a bazillion dollars and make a superkewl Jonny Quest movie. This demographic point isn't getting any younger...
Harlan has a pretty funny story about 'taking a meeting' with Verhoeven. German Valley speek. What a weird fuckin' town that must be.
*** Joseph *** Spoilers on "M". I think there may be a statute of limitation regarding spoilers. 50 years and I think you're in the clear.
*** movie thread *** [Harlan] Sure, I could've mentioned "Thief of Bhagdad" or "Lost Horizon" but I sort of suspected you would be bringing the cultural hammer down, and as much as I love them some part of me thinks of them as 'your' movies. If ya wanna talk black and white THE SCARIEST MOVIE EVER MADE has got to be "Whatever Happened to Baby Jane" which scared the poop out of me when I saw it as an eight year old and [insert Beetlejuice voice here] Just Gets SCARIER Every Time I See It!! Browning's "Freaks" aint got nuthin' on that sucker. Brrrrr.
I see "American Beauty" got mixed reviews here. What about "Fight Club". I'm not sure how it's going to age but I sure liked it. Also, the DVD commentary strikes just the right tone for me. If DVD commentary is going to be there, it should be as fun as that was. The "Brazil" packagers could take a lesson. Still need to here Brooks commentary on "Young Frankenstein". My vote for all-time funniest movie on a minute for minute piss yourself basis. That's right, we're measuring QUANTITY of urine here.
*** Frank Church *** WHY do they keep letting DePalma make movies? "Untouchables" was a fluke. Who do I have to fuck to get him to stop making movies???
[regarding your list] I have to single out, at my peril, "Malcolm X". Since these are just personal bests we're not gonna conclude anything here, but do you feel this is Spike Lee's BEST film? Really? It's just not the one I would have picked.
*** Brian Siano *** The puppies of purgatory? Oh, that's GOOOD!
*** Harlan *** Mimic. Mimic? Not often, but every once in awhile you say stuff that makes me think I have fallen into one of those damned P.K. Dick realities where everything in the universe is EXACTLY the same except the toaster is on the counter to the RIGHT of the stove or the dogs eyes are a different color. Mimic? Okey dokey.
*** Ali Babba *** "Titus" with Hopkins. Oh yeah. And I second you and would add the rest of the Thin Man series. Myrna Loy was a total hottie and Powell was the best drunk ever. If only the drunks I knew were that much fun.
*** Dennis *** I always thought it was weird, the way Cary Grant hated the antic pace of "Arsenic and Old Lace" when it was the pacing that made the movie work so well. It's not as though stacatto dialog was something he was new to or shied away from.
*** Todd *** I liked the IDEA of portraying the upper-echelon of the Catholic Church as being as corrupt as the Mafia. But the actual presentation, in the collective wakes of Godfather I & II was rather unimpressive.
*** Michael *** Somebody really ought to do a book of funny porno movie titles. I would but I'm afraid that like Dr. Frankenstein, my research would be maligned and misunderstood.
*** Mark Zug *** Allright, if Mark Zug sez "The Amazing adventures of Kavalier and Clay" is a must read then it goes on the pile. Finally, a source I trust. And just to add to the general hugging around here, I have very much enjoyed your posts and your work. A very much belated welcome to the board.
*** David Loftus *** I knew it! Those shifty beady little eyes. That trenchcoat and violin case. Hah!
*** Tim Richmond *** The stars are lining up. The portents are favorable. The cheese is on the soup.
ps. and I would never eat my neighbors children. It diminishes their resale value.
*** the music thread *** Pass. Come over and we'll talk.
BUT, I must say how pleased I was that Harlan admitted a few months back that he really enjoyed The Clash. Jesus that was a fun band. Then they went and learned to play their instruments and everything went to hell. Ah, well. And just how MUCH do you have to drink to get thrown out of the Pogues? I mean c'mon!
and that gets me caught up only to Friday. Arrrgghhh!!!
*** Harlan *** Maybe Madison. I'll know by Monday night but it's looking good. Just your lousy luck. And I empathize about the head wound. I pranged myself well and truly doing some rafter work this week. Any more scar tissue on my shiny head and I'll look like a fucking Klingon.
- Barney
Was doing a search at Salon and came across this:
http://www.salon.com/march97/noir2970307.html
Tell me more about some of these crime fiction writers. What's so 'different' about them? Am reading "The Score." I like the style of this book. The action is clipped, to the point, moves quickly--Lee Marvin, ah yes; I remember all the movies of this genre in the 60s and 70s.
Some days--right now--I feel like I'm visiting this person--who was my past. Very strange; very strange, indeed. Not a part of me, in the "now" sense; yet I obviously lived it..mmm..
Heather
Rob:
(That's interesting, as I'm dealing with a scratchy throat that tends to improve as the day wears on--I swore I'd 'do nothing' constructive today if I chose to trek to the library. It's been fruitful--some superficial email to bug some folks about Harlan--but no writing--time to recharge the Duracells, I guess. Feel better, hey? Put a splashguard on that keyboard.)
The really interesting thing about your post.. Rob..is that I understand what you mean, completely. (No, that's not odd or anything; I just feel you and me are on different wavelengths--but the 'process' of which you speak, is strangely similar.) I'm verbal, but I'm definitely VISUAL. Not sure if I'm mixed or not--probably more verbal--I have no patience with drawing. I could do watercolor; but oils--LAYERS.. it takes too long. Acrylics, maybe. I want it hot and fast and .. yes.. watercolor.. I could DO that. I also like faces. For example, NOT just cos it's Harlan, but I love his face. It'd be cool to do sketches of it. Faces.. yes.. I like.. doing faces...Can work on THOSE for hours. Weird...
I was thinking about what you just said now:
"Since I can remember images exploded in my head, often haunting the hell out of me because kids that young can't separate the symbolic from the factual. Sometimes I stood transfixed, "feeling" what I was looking at without trying to verbalize it; they were images without contour, very internalized."
I really GOT that. I truly did. "Feeling" what you were looking at without trying to verbalize it, yes..
I was a damn serious little kid. I never smiled, apparently. Oh, I've eased up some--have you notice?--but I think there's something to this "what you were, as a kid" thang. I think a lot of my "happy" manner (I'm being BLOODY broad here, put the psych book DOWN..and back away from it) has been the direct result of a lifetime of learning to 'acclimatize' myself to dealing with the "general public." I don't mean I'd snap at people--I was a pretty happy kid.. but serious--but..what I am finding.. right now.. with the writing..is this..hmm...darker is the wrong word for it...darker core.
Do you see that in yourself sometimes? Dark.. in a "Dune" sorta way; I don't mean.. hopeless.
That's why I get all this stuff you're sayin'. I've never 'contemplated' it.. to the extent you have; verbalized it, is more the word I'm shootin' for..
But I saw Kubrick -- unknowingly..to use him as the example, here.. and Hitchcock.. the same way you do.
Make sense? Or should I go take a cold pill? (I don't even do COLD pills, ya know that? I'm weird that way, I think.)
Heather babbling (Doncha)Lovatt?
As I am partly pondering the "persona" of Harlan these days to figure why or why not people are interested in him, I pop this question.
Re: "The background story, why I was persona non grata for a year or two, will apparently be imparted to me when we pick a date in the next three weeks." - HE
I'm wondering..is it MORE than an age thing here? I mean, is this Ellison guy too.. SOMETHING for the general populace?
I mean, hell, most of what he says is rather common sense and well, we ARE in the era of 'shooting from the lip' and 'telling it like it is' and 'this is how I feel--don't HURT me.'
What's the deal here? In some ways, I would think people would be beating a path to Harlan's door. *insert large sign with arrow, about here*
Notice how vague I'm being. That's INTENTIONAL. I know what I'm pondering here; just want some feedback.
Or is this just another artist who is 'currently' an acquired taste... and there's something in the back of my head that tells me he's about to hit critical mass.. again..or summat.
Hmmm...
Feedback. Digging for feedback here. You are the wrong ones to ask, cos maybe it's obvious to YOU as well.. but.. well..I can wish..
Heather
Yesterday evening I was invited by a friend of mine who works at the Jet Propulsion Laboratory to a banquet for the Space Frontier Conference.
At this banquet, my friend and I happened to be placed at a table with none other than Ben Bova. Quite a surprise!
The conversation was mainly geared toward his lecture that he is giving today, but I happened to ask him about his experiences in research. I also asked him about his experiences with "The Starlost," the Canadian sci-fi TV show from WAY back in 1973 (3 years before my time!).
As many of you know, he worked on this show with Harlan. He had almost nothing good to say about the experience of the show, but had only excellent things to say about Harlan. All of which I agreed with (although my contact with Harlan has been limited - but very educational!).
To sum it up, I can say that Mr. Bova is a very cordial and intelligent man and it was great to share a table with him for dinner.
So long,
Matt
Heather,
Re: the phrase 'visually wired'.
I'll put it in perspective this way: I draw. I've drawn since the age of 5. Lynn saw some of the stuff I did in the past sans any formal training. Since I can remember images exploded in my head, often haunting the hell out of me because kids that young can't separate the symbolic from the factual. Sometimes I stood transfixed, "feeling" what I was looking at without trying to verbalize it; they were images without contour, very internalized. I think that was happening because I was alone a lot of the time, particularly when my mother had dumped my ass in an orphange (that was when I was 5; it was a 1-year tenure), which, to me, was like a huge, dark sarcophagus. Some of the images created by David Lynch (particularly in Eraserhead and some of the set designs in Dune) remind me a little of the oblique forms and colors I 'saw'. But the feelings would tend to cascade in streams of reflection; the images would flow. I can't be specific right now but that's the general idea.
So, there's visual language and there's written language. And people tend to find one or the other better suited to express themselves. Once in while you meet someone adept at balancing both. Yet, even for them one relies on the energy from the other to sustain itself or it withers.
When written narrative lingers for a long time on the same thought my impatience grows. I suppose, in a way, I'm spoiled; I like to hold a degree of control on the flow. Proust's subjective text challenged me to surrender it, I felt. But I'm going to revisit Proust at some point.
As for the search for one's voice: If you're an artist you feel compelled to explore and find the language that is yours. I believe that's the plight of 'The Artist'. But give my comment context: it was a tangent of a discussion about Kubrick. Swept in experimentation, he tore himself from previous approaches to narrative. Not a helluva lot of people do that, especially in film. Given that I was making a distinction between the definition of an artist and a craftsman. There's the additional idiosyncrasy wherein a motif dominates the imagery, driven by specific obssessions. There's an intrinsic difference between the artist and the craftsman. There's Kubrick and there's Spielberg; there's Picasso and there's Neal Adams; there's John Lennon and there's Paul McCartny (that last shot is partially a joke, btw).
That's my subjective opinion; I don't care if someone sees it differently or disagrees or whatever. It's a pov that evolved because of the way my mind conditioned itself to take in data and works for me as a tool (which is the way it works for everyone; some components of your thinking process that develop before the age of 6 make you what you are for the rest of your life. There ARE many that can still be changed later in life but it takes a lot of work and will. Anyway, that's another story).
BTW, I have a baaaaaaad cold; I seem to be drooling on my keyboard.
I dunno if this is old or new but wanna listen to an excerpt of a Stephen King broadcast of "LT'S Theory of Pets" at Salon audio? Go here:
http://www.salon.com/audio/fiction/2001/07/17/king_live/index.html
Hey, Harlan, where's yers?
Heather
("....Screw Lucy!....")
Joseph: I missed your post, earlier. Your cousin's donation of his organs was a wise and generous thing to do. If only EVERYONE did that, there would be a little less suffering in the world.
Bill: Hand Puppet=Envelope.
The Relatively-Good Jim
'Cuse me?
Am I reading this right? AOL is headquartered in Virginia where THIS other go-round, mentioned in the following URL, got started?
http://www.salon.com/health/sex/urge/bits/1999/10/25/virginia/index.html
This is what the last phrase of that article said:
"While the AOL-headquarters state waves in Internet investors with one friendly hand, the other repressive paw frantically pushes them out."
Is this lawsuit Harlan's involved with tied into that issue that seemed to start in Virginia with this anti-porn legistlation?
Coincidence? Or not? Please explain.
H
Can I see some online examples of erotica?
Bullshit. I just heard you mumble, "oh, I never.."
Show me some please. Good stuff, now.. not crap.
Thanks.
Heather, feet on the bottom of the pool--at 15 feet.
Rob:
Whereas..THIS, I'll just repost cos I like what it says. I like the sound of it...I _like_ it..Rob.
"Finally, to justify my riposte over the ending of 2001 (I could go into an endless exposition over the whole movie) and its cohesiveness, I’ll recap the moment after Bowman had passed through the dimensional stargate. The most difficult thing about the end is that, like the flashes of bending light in the stargate, so many ideas converge at the same time. The dominant theme threading the film is mankind leaving Earth’s cradle; this culminates in the very metaphor of the final image of the movie. Bowman, representing a species that has become like the caterpillar - still playing with its little earthbound toys - on the verge of its evolutionary ascent, lapses through time eating with the quaint mundane utensils in a picturesque setting that keep us living but are no longer enough (think about it: at the beginning we were a species fighting and killing for something simple like food; now we sit quietly without a care eating processed meals. Watch how they eat throughout the film AND at the end). Bowman then becomes what will be the butterfly, the next stage in man’s evolution and his ascent to the stars: the human race, along, perhaps with its barbarism, is about to leave Earth’s cradle. That is the metaphor of the Star Child. And it closes the thematic loop perfectly, which began at the opening of the movie in The Dawn of Man. This was the metaphysical gloss Kubrick brought to his material. And this is why I say the ending is perfect in that every image is a logical, metaphoric extension of the entire preceding text. It is, in fact, a tightly woven meditation, or a poem, as the late Gene Siskel would call it."
Anyone read the "Dreamtigers" entry by Borges? I did, for the first time..last night.
I reread it over four times in a row. Wierdness, eh? Cool stuff.
H
Rob:
I was doing a 'web search' for something C-O-M-P-L-E-T-E-L-Y unrelated that brought me to the archives page with your comments, as follow:
"reading Proust didn’t work for me at the time I tried because I’m visually wired and when I read I AM used to text that moves along."
It got me thinking...what do you mean by 'visually wired'? I ask, cos I think perhaps I am too, as far as reading stories is concerned.
Thoughts, feedback, whatEVAH...
You also said:
"All of these artists had a world view that determined how they would approach storytelling. Many are given to finding new ways of conveying their ideas and vision: they take to experiment and deliberately break the rules because the conventional methods of story structure have become too antiquated and rigid and redundant. (If we’ve already seen ideas conveyed in a certain way, how will an artist be able to tell us what’s so unique about his take on things, and in this medium, if he uses the same approach?). In effect, these are people who, as artists, are finding themselves through a unique approach - their own personal language, if you will. When they do break the conventions accordingly, their audiences, at least for a while, become just as secluded. That artist becomes the infamous "acquired taste." "
and it got me ta thinking some more about all this "emulate/read the previous masters" stuff. Don't you figure, in some ways, what you've said here applies to ANYONE, who is in search of their own vision/language/approach?
Now, I'm not saying we arty types should just stop READING everyone else..but doesn't what you said, beg the point..that.. the _vision_.. the REAL one, as someone noted when he wouldn't stop to pee and feels he had a writing breakthrough as a result (you know who you are; I'm in the middle of a post here and I dinna wan tah luook fur yerrr nahm!)...comes from inside us..
And everything ELSE is just...hmmm..."gravy" on the cake.
(visualize THAT last sentence, will ya?)
Heather, as always, 'rooting' fer ya.
Hey, Harlan. Never HEARD that Pink's piece before. (You knew Lenny Bruce, didn't ya?) Ya got a NEAT voice!
Oh, and I _especially_ liked the SECOND side!
H
Harlan;
Hope your feeling better. I was going to call yesterday and check on you via Susan; figured I'd wait till Monday. Take it easy, I'm looking forward to seeing you both next weekend. Also, tracking the books. They are moving rather slowly and will not arrive until next Monday. Anyoleway, talk with tomorrow. Cheers, Tim
Oh Ya... What's the deal Barney Boy? Do try to call on Andrea's cell phone. I am still in Salem and may be heading to Connecticutt to see John Entwhistle. Find me man!
NOW he tells us.
I just want everyone to know that my evil doppelganger has been posting weird shit under my name again (and using my computer, no less). Don't encourage him by actually ANSWERING his insane query about toilets and vomit and such.
And the question should have read, "Have you ever vomited while sitting on the toilet?" It started out grammatical in my head, really it did.
Sincerely,
Jim "Howard Stern" Davis
I can't believe that I actually feel compelled to answer that ancient question, "Ever vomited while YOU'RE SITTING ON THE TOILET?" But here it is.
Nope, never vomited. Had the feeling I _had_ to, tho, and that made me wonder along the following lines: "Do I continue to sit here and hope my stomach calms down... or do I turn around, and plunge my face into a bowl full of ass-smell on the mere _possibility_ that I might throw up?" That's when I keep the trash can within arm's reach whilst I stay sitting.
I hope everyone's taking NOTES on this.
To Bill Forrester: You have my respect for surviving a year with all of that horror happening to you.
Re Samurai Jack: I've only seen two or three episodes, and they looked like fun, but it didn't grab me that much. But one thing I really admire about the new crop of Hanna-Barbera cartoons-- especially the stuff that Genndy Tartakovsky and Craig McCracken have been doing, is their amazingly stripped-down, ultra-shorthand style.
Take _The Powerpuff Girls_. The opening titles keep the actual animation to a few well-chosen elements, animated very simply. The girls themselves are _instantly_ recognizable as three personalities, with only minor differences in hair and color. Later on, we get Townsville citizens drawn in a very elementary style closer to _Tom Terrific_ or some 1950's advertising. (And the fact that Professor Utonium is a walking parallellogram just _kills_ me.) It's as though the cheapness of the H-B factory has forced them to make their choices _very_ wisely and _very_ carefully. _Samurai Jack_ is a lot like that.
Well, you know a person has a huge circle of friends when one of the Shannon Rovers plays at his funeral, as happened for my cousin today. Saw relatives I hadn't seen in years, including his 10 siblings and 15 neices and nephews (did I mention it's a good south side Chicago Irish family?) Lovely funeral, heartened by just how much they were able to harvest from my cousin (pardons if the following offends ya). They were able to retreive major organs, skin, blood and even some bone (er, what do they use this for - marrow?)
And I was able to spend time with my nephew Daniel, so it's all good.
And, if you ever find yourself at 95th and Western in Chicago, stop by the Rainbow Cone on the north-east side of the corner. Damn fine ice cream and shakes. Also try Abbis Adabba on Clark in Chicago for fine Ethiopian food.
Regards,
Joseph
Joseph, belated condolences.
Peg, re: recipes. Kinda follow the same rule, like with my white-bean chicken chili. The basic formula was provided by the dear proprietress of a small sandwich shop in St Charles (now departed, the shop, that is; but thank goodness you can still go to Al's Ice Creamery and still delight in an extra-thick malt made with the original recipe from the Burns' Pharmacy and Soda Shoppe). Many incarnations of the recipe have been concocted over the years, let's try this, maybe more of that and leave out these.
Harlan-look forward to making the acquaintance of Mr. Pleshette. But after a year which thus far has included anti-seizure medication, professional difficulties (including getting my ass chewed out by a senior vp for something that was my manager's fault), coming to terms with being the father of an honest-to-goodness adult, still not accepting the goddamn C-PAP machine the doctor makes me use (which prevents me from snuggling with the missus when I fall asleep), the gaping holes in my memory from the aforementioned seizure , having my washing machine & refrigerator & my computer blow up in the same month, my advice to you, pal, is listen to the lady and cool it for a while. Bring it down a notch, at least. You whack yourself in the head again and too much good stuff might fall out of that Pandora's box of a brain.
Heather - he sent you a puppet???
Recipes? No, no, no...work by instinct! I sort of follow the recipe, but always end up straying in some way. Specialities? Few. Pear Ginger Spice muffins; Risotto; Lamb Roast (slavished in olive oil, garlic, lemon, rosemary, marinated overnight...). Everything else hit or miss, although more of the former.
Harlan - were I there I'd whip up my semi-homemade chicken soup. Be still, rest, recuperate. (and listen to Susan!)
Joseph - we came home last week to discover the local cable company went under. Service was stopped without warning, simply a message displayed on all channels.
And they say Scotland isn't a third world country....
If I may get you folks off the toilet for a moment, yeah, INVADER ZIM is da bomb, sure, but have any of you been watching SAMURAI JACK? A great action cartoon! Plus, only a month or so until they premiere the new Justice League of America! Thank the gods for the cartoon network, wheeee!
And Heather? Right now I gotta whole lotta spit, 'cause my mouf hurts...I'll mail ya some.
SORRY.
Mark
Harlan: Many thanks once again, gracious man. And I second the chorus: give Susan a little HELP taking care of you, ok?
Heather, Jim: Now you've got me thinking. I never actually went through with on-toilet vomicus, though I have felt awful enough to wish for a whole different kind of bathroom appliance. What I want to know is: does anyone drink beer in the shower?
Mark
Heather, Jim: Now you've got me thinking. I never actually went through with the on-toilet vomicus, though I have felt awful enough to wish for a whole different kind of bathroom appliance. What I want to know is: does anyone drink beer in the shower?
Mark
Heather, Jim: Now you've got me thinking. I never actually went through with the on-toilet vomicus, though I have felt awful enough to wish for a whole different kind of bathroom appliance. What I want to know is: does anyone drink beer in the shower?
Mark
Jim: (just had to mention)
You said:
"Ever vomited while YOU'RE SITTING ON THE TOILET?"
No, but as I was thinking just this morning while I was brushing my TEETH, while sitting on the toilet--does anyone do that?
Heather, exiting...
HEY KIDS!:
Takin' a break from all those Saturday morning cartoons? (I _sure_ am; holy christ, you still watch that stuff? Yer brain's gonna rot like a warm tongue on a hard block of sponge toffee.)
Hey kids, quit imbibing those toasty sugar oaty Halloween breakfast serials and LOOK!: Harlan's sent me a hand puppet!
Yup, gotta it right here, on my left hand -- making it VERY difficult to type right now, so feel humbled by my efforts, will ya?
It's kinda honey-coloured, a rectangular-shape, about the size of a letter-sized airmail Pak and it's even got my NAME on it, so when I leave it accidentally by the swings when I'm playing, some kind critter'll bring it OVER TO MY HOUSE, HEY, how's THAT for a nifty toy, huh?
And if I'm dead or summat, there's ANOTHER address, back to the The Harlan Ellison Recording Collection, Post Office Box 55548, Sherman Oaks, CA 91413 and HARLAN'll get it.
Talk about a failsafe plan, huh? *nudges you in the ribs*
I got it at the post office on Graham, on the way here to the university--they keep leaving these little mash notes in my mailbox--and I rang the bell and picked it up and thanked the lady (she's REALLY getting tired of talking to me, wonder why) and went out the front door picking at the staple on the narrow end that had already popped off one side of the puppet's butt. (I figure that's where you put your hand in, took the staple out first, wouldn't like those doggy disease needles from a staple scratch, nosiree!)
I carefully crossed the street and put the staple in the city-provided, decoratively pebbled litter box--I ain't a litterbug. Some DOG could step on that staple and man, he'd come GUNNIN' fer me and I wouldn't like that, even though I'm STILL more of a cat person than a dog person (hey, dogs're okay. You can have mine, that's all, okay?)
And then I tried it on. HEY, Harlan, it fits! How'dya know my hand size, you are SO CLEVER!
So, I put my other glove on first--it's cold out today--and put on the hand puppet and walked to the corner across from to the Bay department store and everybody was giving me weird sideload glances but I KNEW they were envious cos THEY probably want a hand puppet too. HEY, HARLAN, I'll send you a list of names, okay?
So, I crossed to the Bay and walked up to the Portage Street intersection, crossed the road and ambled up past a squeaky bus slowing to the bus stop and I sidled past the people and jogged across Memorial--hey, I can even JOG with it on my hand--it stays in place, send me another and I'll be all set for winter jogging, hey!
And here I am now. Me and Harlan's hand puppet. And there you go.
Now, back to the toons, kiddies. Betty Crocker's got a new batch of fruit rollups waiting for ya based on the next Disney flick, go check for those glossy, sugared commercials.
And enjoy yer day!
Hey, Harlan, THANKS FOR THE HAND PUPPET. IT MADE MY DAY!
Heather, easily amused.
Harlan-- Feel better. Stay in bed. We're worrying about you.
PAB
Damn, PI last night had, PJ O'roach and Bill O'reilly on. too bad Harlan wasn't on with those two buggers. Sparks would of flew.
Harlan has bad luck sometimes. Remember, Harlan, smell the food before you eat it my man. Smile.
Anyone who falls asleep during, "Citizen Kane" should have their knees taken to by a ball peen.
Because I, apparently, never sleep, I will now remind Harlan TO TAKE IT FREAKIN' EASY TODAY, AND LISTEN TO HIS WIFE. GOT IT?
Jim,
I'm through with the Hefty bag for now. Watch over it for me. I may need it again.
Harlan,
Oddly, I have a few friends who had some stomach bug over the last few days. Take it easy. N' no more banging into the furniture, huh? We all want ya around, man.
Joseph: You're not alone in your outrage. Last week's NY TIMES had an article that described how soldiers "repel down" a rope. I've always wondered when I would join the ranks of those who complain that the TIMES is going to hell.
Heather: Ah, but will you empty my drool bucket when I'm old and withered? Seriously, you ARE a sweetie. A little infuriating at times, true, but a sweetie nonetheless.
Bermanator/Matthew: Nabokov, to my eyes, always resisted the pat and contrived, making him a natural enemy of iron-clad thought systems like Stalinism and Freudianism. As you pointed out, Matthew, to insist on an absolute interpretation of human behavior offended Nabokov's belief in the mercurial quality of human imagination; his works, accordingly, had many, many shades of meaning, and avoided overt displays of didacticism like the plague. His books DEMAND that you cast aside your tired notions of What A Novel Is Supposed To Do, and strive to accept them on their own terms. I've read LOLITA six or seven times, and damned if it doesn't reveal new dimensions every time. What a great writer (probably my favorite).
(Jim, already a little shaky from his first INVADER ZIM experience, reads Rob's three-post blast of crypto-dadaism.)
(Confused, his mind now completely bisected into two equally flummoxed halves, he places his index finger between his pursed lips, and moves it up and down, producing the universally-recognized distress signal of "BEEBEEBEEBEEBEEBEEEE.")
(He is last seen wearing a Hefty bag, and selling foam peanuts by the overpass.)
(For only pennies a day, he could get the counseling he now so desperately needs. Please, won't YOU help?)
Harlan:
I saw INVADER ZIM for the first time tonight.
For once, I am speechless. (Webderlanders everywhere applaud.)
Words like "imaginative," "berserk," and "anarchic" don't seem adequate. I may as well make up new ones, like "argolious," or "moltescent," or "caedilian," to describe it. Quite simply, it is the DAMNEDEST thing I've seen since IRON CHEF--and an instant classic of the "children's cartoons that appeal to adults" genre.
Thanks, man.
Your bad rubber piggy,
Jim
"Have I always had tubes in my neck?"
P.S. I feel your pain. I had a little touch o' food poisoning a couple of weeks ago, too. Apparently you're supposed to AVOID eating the burnt section (I must have missed that Nightline episode). Ever vomited while YOU'RE SITTING ON THE TOILET?
Um, that image wasn't what you needed right now, was it?
You know, I'm going to sound like a cranky guy sitting on the porch and shouting at kids on the lawn....
But what the hell!
Channel 7, the local ABC affiliate here in Chicago, just went off the aire with the following announcment:
"OFF THE AIR FOR MAINTENACE"
I kid you not.
Harlan~
Oh and congrats on the whole movie option thing. I imagine that warm tingly feeling never really loses its appeal.
Pax et sertsa,
L.
Susan~
To whit: At your disposal we have handcuffs, ratchet straps, tie downs, and big burly guys with forearms the size of my thighs. Tranquilizer guns optional. You know where to find me if the Man gets out of hand again.
Harlan~
Jeez man. Slow down. You're probably not on Warranty anymore and nobody here wants to see you in the shop again. Capice? Why invest so much time and affection on your own Garden Variety Goddess if you're not going to fucking LISTEN TO HER?!
Feel better. Slow down.
Love,
L.
Michael: I would have patronized your video store. That is, if I had lived anywheres near it. (Not much of a consolation.) People tend to give funny looks to anyone who even goes near the foreign section at the video store (to say nothing of the looks I got when I picked up "8 1/2"--if I'd rented pornography, I might have been treated more like a sane human being), and the same with b & w; I was the only kid in my high school who had even HEARD of "Citizen Kane." Worse yet, when my prof screened it for us at Ithaca College, most of the other students were BORED. The people behind me were talking through the whole thing. Apparently, in their estimation, a crummy old black and white movie couldn't hold a candle to the work of James Cameron (whom I tend to lump in with Brian De Palma; skillful, uh, "creative borrowers" with not an original thought in their little heads). I would have had a jail story for Heather if an axe had been handy.
Heather: You can have all the popcorn you want for free, compliments of the management. We do hope you enjoyed the show, and encourage you to come back next week, when our presentation will be "Glorious Exaltation Of The Container: Ten Thousand Years' Worth Of Jars."
Okay, since I have absolutely no shame (not enough, anyway), I'll take up the gauntlet you have flung:
Just the other night, the night when I engaged in my own fit of logorrhea (a new word for my vocabulary--thank you, Harlan), I went back to finish the story I'd started that morning. I sat there scribbling away, when, about 800 words from the end, my bladder began to ache. Fiercely. Unremittingly. Implacably.
Now, not being the world's brightest person, I was afraid to let my muse flee--not when I was so close to the end--and went for broke, writing like mad. Ten minutes later, the story completed, I fled for the bathroom.
Strangely enough, the story turned out to be a breakthrough--a story written entirely in my own voice, owing nothing to nobody.
I hope there isn't a connection there, or I'm going to get a lot of kidney infections.
There. Now you're not the only one musing about urination in a public forum (a very public forum). And to think I made all that noise about the appreciation of culture an' all that. Well, uh, Voltaire made fart jokes, didn't he...?
Retiring, red-faced, for the remainder of the weekend,
Scott
That's right, Alejandro, and don't you forget it, man!
We women are generally pretty damn smart and tough. We don't like whining (even from our own kind) and we don't sweat the small stuff. You got a strained back? Try nine-months with an alien in residence in your belly. You got a gash in your forehead? Try an episiotomy.
So when "we" say go to bed, it's because---REALLY---man, you *need* to go to bed. Would that more of *us* heard that once in a while. Cook! Clean! Mother! Earn! Lie down!
(NOTE: preceding post just bullshit posing. I don't believe in the battle of the sexes but, rather, in the concord of the sexes. I'm just riffin' on M/F thang. I really, honestly, 100% can't bitch because I'm married to an incredible cat who loves me FOR and DESPITE my drive, mindset, desires, art, impulses, madness...etc. He calls me up short when I get beyond bitch to HARRIDAN MEDUSA, but for the most part, he sets me free and lends an ear when I come home and tell him the roadstories. HE makes OUR home MY castle. It doesn't get any better than that. The only humane response to THAT is humility and ga-ga love---if you wanna keep it going, that is!).
Little man, you've had a busy day!
Rest now. shhhhh!
And of course in the process of telling my story I wrote "by" instead of "my", ate a couple of prepositions and committed several linguistic faux pas.
Actually, I did it on purpose. It's postmodernistic literatire at its best, guaranteeing complete reader participation.
Okay, time for bed. Say, good night Alex.
Good night Alex.
Dear Harlan:
Man, I hate to sound like a meddling fool so put me in the right place if I do but…
…Susan was right. Hell, you know that by now so who am I to tell you? But being married myself to a woman who is oftentimes more right than I am…well, let's say that, every time I have fallen ill or done something stupid to my body (like lifting a heavy box full of books in order to take it to my office as I slowly put together by bookcases in the new apartment and twisting my shoulder like last Saturday) and my wife says, in an alarmed tone, "Go to bed!" or "Stop it! You'll hurt yourself" and I reply, "Nah, I'll be fine" and I merrily keep on doing whatever the hell I was doing…she comes swinging with bat. Or she stands over my now fallen body, hands on her waist, and sneers, "I told you so! But would you listen? Nooooooooo!"
Man's better half…always right. Let that be a lesson to you, fellow webderlanders of the male persuasion. If she says go to sleep, ask for the pillow, a teddy bear and a bedtime story.
Alejandro
Harlan:
Cool, man, cool, especially about the potential moolah and the potential book-lah!
You go, girl!
Watch those sharp corners though, heh? And watch those sharp and pointy foods too. What do you think it was that getted you? Yer not still chewing that ole silly putty, is ya? I warnd-ed you about that, dinnah?
Heather, off to see the Whizz-ard!
Night-all!
I've PURPOSELY ignored that man Ellison's post. ("Ellisonpost"--rather catchy, don't you think?) They say if you ignore them, they'll go away. (Hmmm.. quite young, aren't you?) I thought that might do it. Oh, hell let's go read Harlan, shall we? They SAAAY he's quite the antagonistic sort, but I don't believe that, do you? I think the man's just minding his own mind? Are you?
Eyes turn BACK down the page. YES, THAT REALLY IS Harlan Ellison, famous writer type guy, kiddies. Yes, indeedy do! Knew all the greats. KNOWS all the greats. He might even talk to you here online, if you mind your p's and locquaciousness.
He da damn, brudder. I say unto you. HE da man. Now go! Read Harlan! Do it now! The time is now, I say. Do it now..
Ooop, ya missed him. Silly rabbits, bricks are for twigs.
Heather
Who's Reading Harlan? (Get with the program!)
Cool, how I sequed back to this, eh? Lateral thinking, this is how it works, doncha know?
Help Harlan Ellison KICK Internet Piracy
http://www.harlanellison.com/kick
Oh, Bri, don't be so modest, I bet you really COOK in the kitchen.
Heather, shake and bake, "n'Ah hellped!"
Michael whinged, not quite so painfully, (feel better, huh?):
"I know the rest of you folks are also fairly gastronomically inclined...anyone up for trading recipes? Or even trading local foodstuffs?"
Hey, Mi, wanna trade some SPIT?
This next anecdote is out of context but I had to laugh; the other day my coworker and I were trading quips (score's tied, but I'm wearing her down) and she said:
I'm not swearing AT you, I'm swearing WITH you.
H
Heather, I've had that simultaneous-posting thing happen before-- with none other than Harlan, ektually, and it seems to have happened tonight, too. I'd add something about data ships that pass in the cybernetic night, but that'd sound too much like I'm imitating Bruce Sterling, so...
However, it seems that such things won't happen much longer if Harlan conTINues to ignore Susan's well-reasoned and perfectly sensible entreaties to take care of hisself. ESPECIALLY when his judgement is impaired by food poisoning and worries about "auteur visionary" directors. When, Harlan, WHEN will you learn to LISTEN to the woman? Oh, wail! Oh, torment! Oh, futility! Oh...
Just _be well_, okay? (At least long enough for me to thank you for recommending Invader Zim, which I saw for the first time tonight. Wonderfully warped, and enhanced by the presence of MST's Frank Conniff and former Kid in the Hall Kevin MacDonald.)
Okay, recipes. I'm really one of the most inept cooks around: I have a handful of simple tasks I can accomplish well in a kitchen (broiling a steak, baking chicken, fairly unobjectionable spaghetti sauce). But, when I try to experiment, the food winds up tasting like rust or ibex fur or Marlon Brando's bathmat.
Oh gawd, there's that Ellison guy again, flappin' his gums. Haven't we gotten rid, I say, RID of him yet?
As I was saying..... BRIAN:
as YOU were saying:
"I've been out of work for just over a year now."
What had you been doing prior to this time? Did you get laid off, turned out, down-sized, square-sized or somehow economy packaged out the door?
What do you generally 'do,' by the way? I realize--I've read your resume--you've done a LOT of different KINDS of stuff. What are you 'shooting for' as it were? (And please, I was only eliciting what is known as a "turn of the phrase"--you may put that gun down ANY TIME now. *frightened, pale-faced, the-saliva-has-left-my-mouth grin*)
"No, it has NOT been horrible: the first six months were spent collecting my share of unemployment, and I've been living on savings since."
So, this 'break' in your action has come at a procipitous..time, er.. hmm.. propitcious.. awh.. hell, what's the word I'm thinking of here HELP ME OUT!
Has this break in your "day-of-the-life-of-Brian" been helpful?... is what I'm reaching for, here, dear heart. *smile*
"I've spent the time lollygagging, doing important house maintenance,"
If I'm not mistaken, I recall you saying you'd recently bought a house. Am I right? Have you ever owned a house before? Is this the first time you've been into doing renovations or whatnot? Am I only allowed twenty questions? Couldn't you extend the rules just this one time? Will I promise to leave quietly-well-I-don't-know-about-that. *showing more cheek than grin*
"drafting a novel,"
Do you use a slide rule or do you count on your fingers? And what's the novel about? Is it 'novel'? Would I like it? Have you finished? Am _I_ finished? Will the sun come out tomorrow? For you, and maybe not for me, if I don't sit down and shut up?
These ARE legitimate question I'm asking here, boyo, 'INQUIRING MINDS WANT TO KNOW.'
Ahem. *eyes twinkle*
"re-evaluating my life,"
What chapter and verse are you currently at? Are you negotiating the ebook rights?--I think you should. You write, when you write, rather well, you know....
Tricked ya! No more questions to this question!
"working out some personal problems,"
Did you finally get the cat to stay on HIS side of the bed? Do your ears hang low, do they wobble to and fro..let's SING, shall we? Am I a case for 'citizen's commital?' Are you gonna grab my wrist? I've got NEWS for ya, mister. We don't DO that around here..officer! OFFICER!
"reading,"
Oh, hell, I KNEW that. Tell me something I don't already know, huh? Are you one of those people "Who's reading Harlan?" -- http://www.harlanellison.com/kick *shameless plug .. for SHAME!*
"and basically enjoying an existence more or less on my own clock."
Blame THIS original sentence on the preceding most noble and copious outpour of faux pitty paws. I envisaged you.. SITTING.. on your clock and wondered if it was pointy or sharp or anything--hey, you know, I almost (like big JIMbo almost--I SAID almost (well, HE said almost--killed a man) cut myself on a quarter the other day; it had a sharp edge. If I had, do you think I would have had to have gotten a tetanous shot, do you think?--or maybe one of those wild-dog-disease hypos in the stomach, gee that's gotta hurt, don't cha think?
You were saying. Pardon, my chattiness--yer so easy to talk to, ya know that?--I'm all ears (and my mouth is actually rather small.)
"But the savings are approaching the danger zone, and it's time I started generating some income."
What you need to do, my boy is a "job." I KNOW THIS. I'm reading "The Score." Parker's getting itchy, just the way YOU are, even though he says his reserves are getting low, and there's money for a long while for expenses..what he REALLY needs is to take on a job.
Have you ever fired a gun, Brian? New subject.. anyone.. Would you consider firing a gun? Man, that must be an incredible sensation, don't you think? I'm not sure I'd want to.
Heather, full of questions and chewy, dark chocolate chunk cookies (oh, you FIGURED that, did you? She's upped her sugar intake for this evening or something. Oh, BITE ME!
Please. *smile*
Heather
Jeez, Mr. E...be careful, willya? Any crack in that cranium and those new stories might leak out! You stay in bed with a little chicken soup, maybe a peanut butter sandwich, get well. You want I should call my Aunt Sylvia, she lives in LA, she should maybe make you some blini?
I seem to be thinking about food a lot right now, no doubt due to the dental work, which prohibits my chewing anything tougher than soup...when this is all over, I'm going to reward myself with a big feedbag. I know the rest of you folks are also fairly gastronomically inclined...anyone up for trading recipes? Or even trading local foodstuffs? I would be happy to mail out Bueno Extra Hot Red & Green Chile in exchange for oh, REAL baklava, or frozen Cuban food or something. What's the specialty in your neck of the woods?
your friend in saliva,
M(agenta)ichael
OMigawd, let me just start off by saying you and me, Bri musta bumped in the Innanet or summat cos I was posting a post and the screen went white and suddenly.. YOU WERE THERE.. or your post was anyway.
Was it as good for you as it was for me?
I seem to be tracking in one gear here.. did somebody notice that? (I pray you, it WASN'T intentional. Pass me that cigarette, will you, Bri? Mine's gone out.)
H..gasp
MARK ZUG: Even if you weren't my friend, and hadn't done me several solids, if for no other reason than the brilliance of your work on I,ROBOT . . . I would grant you whatever you need.
By all means, take what you deem necessary.
TODD CASSEL: You must have been looking at one of the other Le Guin audios--I did piecework on several of them--and not A WIZARD OF EARTHSEA, because I am the only reader on that one. I read it all, every single chapter, every single word. On the others, there were various narrators.
I learned about DRIVE (nee "Along the Scenic Route") at the same time you folks did, in VARIETY today. Optioned the story several years ago, to a small company. Apparently, they were a stalking-horse for Proyas's indieprod, because I'd never heard his name associated with the project till today. The two writers working on it have never met Proyas. They've only had long-distance story-conferences with him, Sydney-LA., ignore the man behind the curtain, I AM THE GREAT AND POWERFUL WIZARD...
Spoke to one of the newly-hired co-scenarists, Cy Vorris, today. Nice guy. Turns out to be a longtime admirer of my work. But the thrust of the story now, is what Proyas wants it to be; and that, sadly, seems to be a replay of DEATH WISH with fast cars and smash'm'ups. When I pointed out to Vorris that the point of the story is that this is a middle-class joe (Kevin Spacey in AMERICAN BEAUTY) and not a macho revenge thriller (Charles Bronson in the DEATH WISH series), a story about ROAD RAGE, not vendetta, he verbally shrugged and pointed out that two disparate and utterly irrelevent pressures were bending the attack on the screenplay.
The first was that Proyas had been attached to the SPEED RACER project for two years, and apparently it has gone belly-up. The second was that Paramount has been trying to develop a remake of the old Corman DEATH RACE 2000 film from Stallone's early career, and the project can't find the right gear to go into.
So they've taken my humble little story--which the AP and Reuters contend was the first mention of freeway shootings in fiction--and they've turned it into a, well, they're TURNING it into a...well, Cy tells me the first ten minutes of the film will be the totality of my story, that I'll love the first ten, and then I can depart the screening.
I optioned it with my eyes open, decided I didn't have time or energy to write it, and so I have almost nothing to say about it. I don't hold out a lot of hope, but one never knows. DARK CITY and THE CROW were excellent, and Proyas is no dummy. The writers seems to be decent guys, so what the hell. Who knows. Who the hell knows? They paid me a decent option price, they renewed it last February for a reprise of that decent option money, and if they make it, well, it looks to be between a quarter and a half a million, which heaven knows we can use. But what the hell, who knows, who the hell knows?
I'll try to keep you apprised.
Had to cancel the dinner with Lawrence Block. Had food poisoning yesterday. Puked and dry-heaved all day; and had stomach cramps so bad I thought I was passing kidney stones again. Got nine hours sleep, knocked myself out with a Somnia, and woke this morning feeling peachykeen. Susan said, "Stay in bed, it's too soon," but I was off and running. About four, five hours later my legs went out from under me, I pitched forward and split open my skull on the sharp edge of an open filing cabinet drawer. Scalp wounds, even when minuscule and non-life-threatening, bleed like a sonofabitch, as you know. So I went back to bed with this matted scalp and everything spinning like a gyroscope.
I oughtta be okay tomorrow. I'm starting writing a new series of short stories about a psychic investigator, because that's Susan's favorite kind of yarn. So I've been plotting a series for a year or so, and I'm ready to begin the first yarn.
It is entitled "Introducing Bobby Pleshette."
I'm gonna enjoy this.
Woozily, but unbowed, yr. pal, Harlan
Heather, your concern is touching. (And in the appropriate places, too.) I've been out of work for just over a year now. No, it has NOT been horrible: the first six months were spent collecting my share of unemployment, and I've been living on savings since. I've spent the time lollygagging, doing important house maintenance, drafting a novel, re-evaluating my life, working out some personal problems, reading, and basically enjoying an existence more or less on my own clock. But the savings are approaching the danger zone, and it's time I started generating some income.
Actually, Scott:
I just came for the free popcorn, but YOU'LL do. And _you_ do, nicely. Thanks.
Heather, reading you...
Yes...I follow myself, again and again and again--get used to it, huh?
Brian:
Brer Brian, what's this all about?
"On another note: I appears that I might have a job. My long national nightmare is over."
Pray tell now, stand upon that pulpit you have so precipitously place upon the plain before you and tell us..
AND?
Heather, practicing her tieping.
Jim:
Have I told you lately that I love and cherish you? *bigger grin than all the other ones I ever gave here, cos I _know_ you want it, you KNOW you do, hand me that remote, will ya, shall I 'click your bic,'. . sonny boy?*
Would you consider having yourself bottled, put in a clear, non-returnable, non-breakable flask of some nature, and selling me some of your essence, so on hot, mosquito-infested nights I can take you out and dab you on?
*bigger kiss* as I know how you need help in that department, us wondering JUST HOW IRISH SPRINGLY A MANNISH MAN YOU ARE AND ALL THAT.
Hey, you started it. I rememember your quote disSTINKly.
Heather wuvs woo.
Barney:
Hey, thanks for the reply. Yes, I recall a story about a friend doing Harlan a favor and the outcome of that. He wrote a story about it--the guy, I mean--didn't he?... and he posted the URL on this site, I think.
I'll come clean. Few people in my world know about it...but it's pretty minor. And pretty damn dumb when you consider my background. I was arrested and charged for assaulting a little kid.
*laugh*
Okay, for starters, picture this: I was in Bramalea, at the time, with my parents and I'd not been there too long--lived in Hamilton for half a dozen years and returned to Bramalea for a while in my late twenties, I think it was.
I was out the back one summer afternoon, sunning myself or reading or something. These people, a few doors down from us, the court (we lived on a court) asshole--he parked his big cars and trucks at the base of the street, making it hard for people to navigate the bottleneck, stupid stuff like that -- had a coupla of kids. They were assholes too but the dad was the head asshole (Funny, how that works, doesn't it?)
One of the kids, was in the backyard--I have NO idea what he was doing--but he was screaming...CONTINUALLY.
So.. what did I do? (new; back to the neighborhood; I remember later feeling like _I_ was taking the flack, doing the 'stupid' move that my brothers and my parents had mumbled about on numerous occasions)...
The kid was driving me nuts. And me, having been a no-nonsense, I'll tell you what I THINK, kid, type to all my charges as a babysitter, went down to the yard, took the kid by the wrist and said, "shut up, okay?"
Only it didn't end up in COURT that way. This asshole, his dad, man, what a load of bullshit he pulled, and said, and did.. yes, it went to court. I was scared shitless, to say the least.
But it showed me something, about people, and about myself. It's interesting...to consider...at this moment, actually..*grin*
...I've played with fire a few times and got burnt. But I learned things. That's all, I'm shuttin' up. *laugh*
OH, and Barney, about this:
"ps. By the way Harlan lives with, nay SLEEPS with a Buffy fan so he should watch what cultural icons he prods us with. IMHO."
Does SUSAN know about this? *grin*
Oh.. and new subject..you MAY not wanna hear this..
I have a question: As I have just now returned from the washroom where I went to pee after having sat here for an INEXORABLY long while, writing something I was working on.. tell me, anyone.. Harlan..is there some hazard to this writing gig that I must get used to?
I wait.. FAR too long.. sometimes.. these days.. before I go to pee. I'll be sitting here.. working on a piece of writing.. getting caught up in it.. and I REALLY SHOULDA PEED EARLIER..
but I didn't.
Come on, 'fess up. I just told you MY big secret -- I gotta summary dismissal and two years probation, I think it was.. or the idea that I stayed away from 'said kid' or summat. I'm laughing now, but it wasn't so funny then.
Heather, I break little kid's arms (or so I'm told)
TROUBLEMAKERS shipped today from Amazon.com... waiting...waiting
Matthew, I appreciated the info re: why Nabokov hated Freud. I am about to teach Freud in the context of the Oedipus Rex, but I always feel uncomfortable as I teach it. Now I know why-- it's a response Freud's urge to classify all behavior as coming from a common (and somewhat demeaning) pattern. Thanks for articulating it, because now I can pass that on.
I'm still gonna teach it, though; it provokes a lot of good critical thinking. Usually half of them rage against him (mostly the girls for obvious reasons-- Freud understood women even less than he understood himself). His work was deeply flawed but valuable for select insights. Also, it's titillating as hell.
You ever consider rereading select works of Faulkner? Giving him another chance? Things often hit me a different way after rereading years later. I confess I'm not in love with everything he's written. I suspect, though, that some people just don't get Faulkner. This isn't a slam on you, it's an aesthetic issue. Some people are moved to tears by opera, others fall asleep. Taste, there's no accounting for it.
SAM-- Thanks for the great description of the Dylan show. I wish I had been there. Sounds like he did a lot of my favorites too. It's cool that you saw teenagers there. Still much to learn from his work.
The Bermanator
David: Never read _Voltaire's Bastards_, but it's been recommended to me about a hundred times over the years. I guess I ought to take the plunge. (Tho I'm inclined to blame other factors than the Age of Reason for scum like MacNamara.)
The talk about seeing musicians live reminds me of a little anecdote. I was helping some friends of mine, who do lighting and sound, set up for a band that did Swing music. When we wheeled the piano out, the pianist did a quick riff to check the tuning. "And for our next number," I said, thinking myself clever and obscure, "'Honky Tonk Train Blues' by Meade Lux Lewis."
And without any comment, the pianist started _playing_ it. I nearly died laughing.
Re Proyas and "Along the Scenic Route": I'll hope for the best here, because Proyas did a spectacular job with _Dark City_. So it's not likely he'll take a decent story and turn it into a remake of _Death Race 2000_ or _The Running Man_.
But if I had my druthers, I'd ask him to give _Mefisto in Onyx_ a try. That's a story that would require a really adventurous imagination, and a willingness to try to find some new cinematic language with which to show the main character's ability to jump into others' minds. Proyas could be up to it.
I see that SciFiction has put up Gerald Kersh’s “Men Without Bones” as this week’s story.
http://www.scifi.com/scifiction/classics/classics_archive/kersh/kersh1.html
and it’s accompanied by a nifty biography and photo of Kersh:
http://www.scifi.com/scifiction/classics/classics_archive/kersh/kersh_bio.html
David~ I confess, I discovered Yes in 1984 with Owner of A Lonely Heart. And I worked my way back from there. My favorite of all their albums came long before the Roger Dean art. The Yes Album. Wore it out on tape twice. The Big Generator tour at the Forum netted me five of seven band member's autographs. Rick Wakeman stood around and chatted with us for about an hour and even gave me his addy on The Isle of Man. Too bad I was a stupid kid who didn't know that most artists don't give out their home addresses. It was a treat.
L.
Brian: Have you read _Voltaire's Bastards_ by John Ralston Saul? He's a Canadian novelist/investment banker who wrote this searing indictment of Enlightment or Age of Reason using nearly contemporary illustrations like current corporate heads and McNamara's tenure as Secretary of Defense. Might support your case.
Thanks for the Dylan report, Sam. I've never seen him, and haven't bothered to try, but I grew up on my Dad's copy of _Freewheelin'_ and Dylan's an essential part of the soundtrack of our lives.
Jim,
Waitaminute: what th'bloody hell am I saying? Your post went "My Momma raised me better than THAT". OK, well I mean I'm a shade away from agreeing with whoever t'was said Hitch's British stuff was better.
Why do I keep making everything so ding-dang-diddly fuckin' complicated? I feel like I'm having a conversation with myself here. Well, I never did deny being a schitz.
Matthew: What's wrong with garlic? Could you find a different metaphor, please?
(Of, of course, you're from England ... the only nation in the world with a blander cuisine than traditional American....)
Jim,
Um...er...ah-hem...yeah...I mean YOUR mother - not OUR mother. Amazingly, it's been my firm understanding we ain't related.
Damn typos t'Purgatory! Damn 'em, I say!
Jim,
Well, I is inferrin' there is at least PARITY with some of Hitchcock's British films. A nut HAS to have nutso views, right? While not QUITE disagreeing with you I was still defending the power of some of his early films. I mean 'The 39 Steps', fer instance, does stand up to MOST of his later work.
In other words, I'm a shade away from agreein' with our mother.
Harlan, about a week ago you mentioned that you had recorded Ursula Le Guin's A WIZARD OF EARTHSEA unabridged. Are you on the entire recording, or is it done in chapters (short stories), with you performing one chapter? I spotted this set at the local Borders and I noticed a lot of performers listed, not just you. Didn't have much time to read the cover in detail, though.
Thanks. -TODD
Hey everyone, look at the attached article from SCIFI.COM. Harlan, any more info you can give us on this? If Proyas does half as well as he did with DARK CITY, there's a great movie being made here! Of course, seeing that you are not involved in the screenplay gives me the shivers; I can envision some thoughtless action-smashemup movie here.....but then again, it's Proyas! -TODD
Proyas Goes Into Drive
Paramount Pictures will adapt Harlan Ellison's SF story "Along the Scenic Route" into a movie entitled Drive, to be directed by Alex Proyas (Dark City), Variety reported. Cyrus Vorris and Ethan Reiff have been hired to adapt the story for the screen, the trade paper reported.
Proyas and his Sydney-based producing partner Topher Dow will produce. The story is set 20 years in the future, when American highways are left unpatrolled and auto dueling has been legalized--not just as an acceptable form of conflict resolution on the road, but also as a ratings-generating event on local newscasts, the trade paper reported.
"Bermanator", huh? I like it.
Here's a set list for Wednesday night:
http://www.execpc.com/~billp61/101701s.html
and set lists from the rest of the tour, updated after every concert, are linked from here:
http://bobdylan.com/live/
No, I've never seen Bob live before. It was a very special moment for me, to be able to see this guy (for ultimately that's all he is, all genius aside), who merely by being himself somehow
helps me to be myself, who is doing exactly what I want to do with my life, what would make me perfectly in tune with who I am. (I'm working on it.) And to be able to see it with my best friend there, who merely by being herself somehow helps me to be myself.
Everything fell perfectly into place. It was a charmed day. Me wearing my velvet jacket, a not-too-outlandish patterned shirt, and brand new black suede Chelsea boots that arrived from Liverpool just hours before the concert.
When we were getting ready Kirsten and I were talking about what we hoped he would play. We both wanted "Mississippi", our favorite song from the new album. He played it. I mentioned that I hoped he'd do "Visions of Johanna", because it's not only my favorite song, but it seems that he doesn't play it as often as others. He played it. "Like a Rolling Stone" was a given; I knew that from scanning the set lists ... but it was still awesome. I have NEVER been that impressed by "My Back Pages" ... and he completely transformed it into something I found to be beautiful. "Things Have Changed" as the first encore. "Just Like A Woman", sung through, then a very long instrumental verse until you think "Oh darn, the song's over and he's not gonna cap it off with a harp solo" ... and then the band starts on yet another instrumental verse as Bob walks back and grabs a harmonica. "Masters of War" never done better; he repeats the first verse at the end (after "and I'll stand over your grave 'till I'm sure that your dead", you get "Come you masters of war"), which would seem on paper to be anticlimactic, but musically, with the band playing sharp staccato accented chords and Bob's steadily-angrier vocal ... it worked. "Sugar Baby" even more otherwordly and mysterious than on the album. The other songs from Love and Theft were already sounding new and played-around with, improvised upon, searching for new layers of meaning and expression. "Rainy Day Women", ending with several seemingly unending instrumental verses until Bob butts in, introducing each musician so that they can have their share of applause, and when he gets to himself, ending his intro with "and still a child, even at sixty." Last song of the night, "Blowin in the Wind" with everybody singing along.
And then he was gone, disappearing behind the speaker cabinets and keyboards and drumset ... only to re-enter my field of vision, passing through a narrow hallway, where he paused, turned around, put on a hat and smiled in our general direction.
And then he was gone. And those were just the highlights.
To answer more of your questions: they played for almost two hours. It was at the RIMAC Arena in UCSD.
And some kids know who he is. You should have seen it -- maybe this is typical of Bob or the Grateful Dead, but it can't be typical of most popular musicians -- so many people from so many different walks of life, who for one brief moment became friends who just danced and smiled as if we knew each other. Bob has the most diverse fan base of any entertainer I can think of. It was great, from grandparents who brought their 5- and 6-year-old grandchildren to college students to high school students to teachers to truck drivers ... so many different people. And me, still a child at twenty.
I ramble. Time to go. So I won't even get into the wonderful communication you could see between Bob and his band, lead guitar player especially (best badass since Robbie Robertson that I've heard so far), as he took them into unexplored territories within familiar songs. Won't even mention that if I didn't know better I could've sworn he looked right at me and smiled when I waved not once but three times, even though I know that even when he was twenty-two he couldn't see detail beyond the first three rows or so. Won't ramble on about the fact that he always either faced straight ahead or turned in MY direction, never to his right but always straight ahead or to his left, where I was. Won't wax on about how much he seemed to be enjoying himself.
I could, but I won't.
Apologies, Mr. PAB, if this was a helluva lot more than you were asking for.
Just gotta say, life is magical. Yep. I've been enjoying every minute of it, the past few weeks. Hope it lasts. Must be doing something right, to be this at peace.
Until later,
Sam
Peter: For another opinion of the audiobook, "Thief of Time", by Terry Pratchet, go to http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/stores/detail/-/books/0060199563/customer-reviews/qid=1003521230/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_7_1/002-3999184-4006457
and look for the review: Twelve Hours with the Thief of Time, August 24, 2001
Brian:
Nabokov hated Freud for much the same reason he hated Stalin. Nabokov was about nothing if he wasn’t about the freeplay of the individual and his imagination seeking out their own meanings in the world. What Nabokov saw in Freud was a man who was trying to reduce all men to a single pattern – universal dream symbols, fundamental passages of human development and types of response that Freud claims all men possess. To Nabokov this was no better than the conformism of Stalinism, draining all the colour out of life and crushing the individual’s right to choice and the fullest life possible. Since Nabokov believed that human imagination would inevitably win (if at some cost) this meant that both his opponents were frauds and therefore the only sensible thing to do was to laugh them off the stage.
Jim:
I’m not saying that any of Faulkner’s work is poor. Even the early sketches have a high degree of competence and surety that means they were published in magazines of taste and