Should have said, dozzy-doed… Moved my really thin ass over to…Took a stroll over to…finally figured out where to find stuff by pointing and clicking my mouse to…
Been watching too much South Park. It's even showing in my writing and my lame attempts at humor and other smart-assness. (Not to say continue mingling and joyful destruction of the English language.)
"How do he hiddy-ho?"
Alex:
Disregard last message. I hiddy-hoed over to Microsoft's website and downloaded Windows Media Player for Macintosh and finally got to see Harlan's comment. Piece of cake. Thanks for the tip. Now, if I could only fix the sound here…
Alex:
Forgot to mention that I use a Mac. What then?
ARIERA: Well, though I think it's supposed to be streaming video (but it's not Vivoactive, Quicktime, Real, or any of the more well-known streamers), my system just downloaded the entire thing as a file--I opened it with Windows Media Player, and it went just fine.
I ended up switching over to IE5 to view the Ellison vid. I'm not proud of it, but I did.
As for the grand master: The SFWA website says that "The Grand Master Award is given to a living author for a lifetime's achievement in science fiction and/or fantasy." So by their own definition they would be remiss in not recognizing writers who have spent a lifetime writing and expanding science fiction. They worry that handing out Grand Master awards like candy on halloween will cheapen the award (and at that extreme, it would, but that's not what anyone is asking of them) but fail to realize that the bickering and politicking involved does more to cheapen the title of Grand Master than any amount of indiscriminate recogniton.
just my two cents.
---Peter
furor scribendi
Alex:
What program/application is needed to view Harlan's rant. I dowloaded mine into the system (took about a bloody hour to download) but could not open or play it. I only have Quick Time. Man, this is frustrating. I was so looking forward to hearing Harlan's rant.
TODD: Yeah, I agree--a little too damn remarkable to be believed. Perhaps one or two GMs have quibbled once or twice; I can't buy that any more of them would have.
In addition to Ann's and Ian Strock's e-mails, I got one from Sam Lundwall (a good friend of Farmer's), who, rather than addressing the issue of great writers reaching the ends of their mortal strings before getting the awards and appreciation they deserve, tells me that he "really cannot see anything special about The
Lovers. If you think that was daring, it only shows you never read any European SF of the thirties anbd forties. So whatever the enormous merits of my esteemed friend PJ F, I respectfully suggest he should wait some."
To me, this seems pretty damned petty--and this from a man whose daughter is Farmer's godchild!--and speaks to Harlan's argument that the board members have gron a wee bit too self-important. It's not always POSSIBLE to "wait some".
I also got a very thoughtful e-mail from Michael Armstrong, who is of the mind that FEWER GM Awards should be bestowed--and, to be honest, he makes a compelling argument. It's one whose core I disagree with, of course, but he's obviously given the matter a lot of thought; he's not just quoting the party line. His main point is that the GM should not be a lifetime achievement award given merely for time well served, but rather, recognition for people who have had substantial impacts on the field, with his benchmark being Heinlein. "The award is not a golden watch, a pat
on the back for work well done."
All that having been said, he also included a list of those who have gotten the GM award and contrats it with those who may be deserving of it, but have not. The way he couches it, my letter has got him thinking, despite his still-held beliefs. In fact, he says that he does "appreciate you taking the time to present your ideas. It has got me wondering if it would be appropriate for SFWA to honor more elder writers without lessening the quality of the GM award."
So maybe if there's enough input from fans--intelligently phrased, well-argued input--minds may change on this.
Hell, what better group than those on this board to provide intelligently-phrased, well-argued input?
If you want to say something about this, feel free to go to , go to the Officers page, and send off some e-mails--and please; let's not ape the fans who, when Harlan asked in one of his columns for a groundswell of support for something or other, started their letters with: "DEar Teriary Syphilis Sufferer ..."
And yeah; the story Kurt asks about has to be "Strange Wine", though I'd argue that Willis Kaw felt he had lived a life without hope, without any escape from tragedy, rather than without meaning.
KURT: Sounds like "Strange Wine" to me. First in the 50th anniversary issue of AMAZING SCIENCE FICTION (June 1976) and, later, the title story of one of Ellison's best collections.
ALEX: Is this supposed to be indicative of pettiness on the part of surviving Grand Masters, as you were given to understand? Remarkable, if so.
Seeing the GalaxyOnline rant that Harlan did--mainly about giving Grand Master Awards to those deserving before it's too late--prompted me to e-mail the officers of the SFWA about it. I really thought that a few people Harlan mentioned had already been granted GM status.
Anyway, a response quickly came back from Ann Crispin, who is the VP of SFWA, as well is a person I've spoken with on a few newsgroups.
Apparently, she says, the idea of giving out a group of such awards is greatly opposed, most vocally by those who are GMs themselves. Though I trust Ann, this made me a little leery--after all, there are only six or seven Grand Masters who are even still alive.
(A similar response from Ian Randal Strock also came in)
I intend to become an SFWA member after my book's sold.
Maybe then, my one voice will hold more weight ...
Hello, all you out there in Ellisonland. I come to you as my last and fading hope. Years ago I read a story by HE in which a man living a fairly middle-class existence finds his life without meaning and commits suicide, hoping that there will be a better life for him in death. He then wakes up to find that he's a bug of some sort and that his past life on earth was the pinnacle of his life. What is the name of this story and in what book(s) did it appear?
Thanks in advance for any help with this query. It's been bugging me for months.
kurt
Heather recently wondered aloud whether or not anyone was teaching DON QUIXOTE these days. For what it's worth, my Advanced Placement 11th graders always hear about (and sometime read excerpts from) the book as part of our introduction to the picaresque novel prior to our study of HUCK FINN and THE CATCHER IN THE RYE. We end up bridging to ON THE ROAD and THELMA AND LOUISE -- and even JANE EYRE -- before we're through. It's a lot of fun and relevant to the lives of these kids who still see life as a road to be traveled and experienced fully, be it on the plains of Spain or the streets of our little town of Seffner.
Keegan: Here are a couple of excerpts from what I read on from the AP on Feb.2, concerning Vonnegut: "`Slaughterhouse-Five'' novelist Kurt Vonnegut Jr.was in critical condition Monday after a fire at his home.
Vonnegut, 77, suffered smoke inhalation Sunday night in
a small blaze that broke out in the fourth-floor study of
his East 48th Street brownstone. The author - known for
satirical and darkly humorous novels - was home with his
wife and daughter. A Fire Department source who spoke on the condition of anonymity said the fire may have been caused by a
cigarette left burning in the room.
Vonnegut was in critical but stable condition at New
York Presbyterian Hospital..."
None of Vonnegut's family knew of the fire at first. Von
Stackelberg said Krementz was walking out the door
when he rushed over, Vonnegut was on the ground floor
and Lily Vonnegut was in her bedroom. Von Stackelberg and Vonnegut went to the study and tried to put out the fire. As the room filled with smoke, von Stackelberg warned Vonnegut to leave.
``When he didn't come out of the room, I shouted to him,
`Mr. Vonnegut, you have to get out of there!''' von
Stackelberg said. ``Maybe he was trying to collect some
material. When he finally came out, I grabbed him by the
hand and led him to the staircase.''
As I said, that was on Feb.2nd, and (since Vonnegut already suffers from emphysema) the idea of a 77 year-old being in "critical but stable" condition seemed fairly serious. Perhaps, as Todd has noted, things have changed dramatically since then. Hope so.
Out here, DTS.
Just thought that people'd wanna know--they finally updated Galaxy Online--and, among the slightly-late pieces and the missing links, now have Harlan's column up.
Sorta.
It's a video feed thing, akin to his Buzzwords.
And hell, maybe that's his true milieu--raging out from a screen at the minor darknesses of the world--in this case, the sf world.
Yes, it's a twelve MB file (that is, for the higher resolution version)--but damn if it isn't well worth it.
Reports released the day after indicated no serious injury to either Vonnegut nor his house--that I heard of. Nor, however, did I read of any burns to him, rather that the fire was far enough away from him that he wasn't aware of it until a neighbor phoned it in.
A. E. van Vogt. No one has had a career quite like his, roller-coaster ride, good ideas cheek by jowl with bad ones, his first sf story published a "golden age" ASTOUNDING cover-item (and an inspiration for work up to the 1979 film ALIEN and beyond) but the latest thing published that almost anyone would want to read being "The Human Operators" in '70? '71? A long flirtation with Scientology (they wasted Katherine MacLean's time, too, which might even be a worse crime) kept him busy for most of the '50s, Damon Knight (one of the best speculative fiction writers so far) made his critical bones pointing out just how bad the AEvV serial THE WORLD OF A (in book form THE WORLD OF NULL-A) was. But Knight and more often Charles Harness wrote interesting work using van Vogt's model of a new plot twist every 800 words or so...and apparently he faced up to his fight with Alzheimer's with grace.
I flinched when I read the news about Vonnegut. Any news on his condition? Reuter's made it seem like that with time, all would be well. Let's hope that's true.
I owe a large part of my general literacy to an adolescent discovery of Vonnegut.
Thinkin' in his general direction.....
ALL: Don't know if most of you guys already know about this (my local paper didn't have anything about it -- at least they didn't have a story that wasn't buried somewhere in the back -- but the internet has been updating stories about it): Kurt Vonnegut was critically injured (smoke inhalation and, I believe, skin burns) trying to extinguish a fire that started in his apartment during the Superbowl game. Ray Bradbury, Bill Dignin, A.E. van Vogt, Marion Zimmer Bradley, Kurt Vonnegut...with so many deaths and serious injuries among his close friends and colleagues, it's a wonder Ellison can get any work done at all. Out here, DTS.
Well, the greats are passing, but new greats will rise up to replace them.
Right?
Until next time. . .
Jim Hess
www.thinkingrockpress.com
Just thought I'd note that CNN.com had an obituary for A.E. van Vogt on it's site:
http://www.cnn.com/2000/books/news/02/02/bc.people.vanvogt.reut/index.html
Considering that I loved Blair Witch, I think it's a safe bet Harlan didn't like it.
As much as I love HE's writing, I have discovered from his writing on film that he and I couldn't possibly disagree anymore on the subject of what makes a good film.
I'm sure he cares. :)
Gil Kane's passing is indeed sad. His career spanned all the "ages" of comic book history. While he never got identified with any one character or title over a long period of time like some creators, he had a hand in shaping the development of virtually every character in the Marvel stable and many from DC.
If you have a favorite Marvel cover from the 70's, I'll give you decent odds Gil Kane did it.
By all accounts, Kane was also one of the true gentleman of the field though I never had the honor of meeting him. He was producing commission work for his adoring public even while battling his illness.
Gil Kane, John Broome - we're losing too many of the greats.
Trying to describe that circumstance some more: It was weird, because the people in the other classroom seemed like they were on the moon....you know, that chopped up slomo thing. And there was the delay. The laugh came well after the punchline.
Another odd thing was that we could see ourselves on a monitor, too, so we got to see what the other kids were seeing. For example, everyone has a button that will zoom in on you and a moderator can also control the camera. So when an individual was speaking or presenting something, the focus was on that person or thing. When the discussion was general, the shots were wide.
Overall, it was a great experience. It was fun, too.
Wow. I knew it was cold, but Sue and Syzygy in agreement????? I *do* believe Satan has donned the fur coat and mucklucks.
Seriously, though, distance learning technologies aren't yet perfect, but they do have potential. Last year, my fifth graders were involved in a distance learning project with a New York City fifth grade as part of preparation for a concert at Carnegie Hall.
We went to a big classroom at Cornell. When they turned on the screen, there were the other kids and their teacher. They could see us and we could see them! People could talk to each other, we played music for each other and even sang together (well, as together as seven-second delay will let ya get).
Anyway, yes. Nameless faceless instruction is no better than yer good old fashioned correspondence course. Some of the new distance learning technologies are quite exciting in their potential, though.
Well, this is a first, because I agree with both Jim and Syz. If that seems a bit contradictory, well shoot, it's those contradictions that make us interesting.
Actually, syz was able to express those opinions that I was unable to form into words due to my personal involvement in the original situation. While I agree with Jim that an online component, especially one in which quality feedback can almost be assured, is a good idea. Will it ever replace a round table situation of discussion? No. But, and I speak from experience, it would save a hell of a lot on copies.
Maybe it was a moment of weakness when I said I agreed completely with Jim, but I do think that there is some validity in what he says. I don't know. I'm just blathering right now. I'll get back to this when I'm more coherent.
---Peter
furor scribendi
I second the recommendation for the new "official" (I guess) website for Dan Simmons. You can just type dansimmons.com or dansimmons.net to get to it. I stumbled across it a few weeks ago, before anything was active, and I've been checking it ever since to see if it had started up. It has indeed. Good stuff. Hope it gets updated with some regularity (that's always the thing, isn't it?).
ALL: For you Ellison fans out there (you know who you are) that appreciate Dan Simmons, there is a new website that just went on line with lots of groovy information about forthcoming works, works-in-progress, how to obtain first editions (in the near future) from Simmons himself, and an alert to a "find the pseudononymous novel contest" for which the winner will be awarded a limited, signed (and still shrinkwrapped) edition of Carrion Comfort. The address for this site is as follows:
dansimmons.com/ds/index.html
Once you log onto the site, wait for the graphics to download (the Shrike, and a "tree of life"). Icons that let you access the four or five areas will "appear" among the limbs of the tree of life.
Be there or be square!
Out here, DTS
Gotta agree with Paul & Sue--virtual classrooms would pale in comparison to the actual thing. For me, being able to watch a speaker's body language and expressions, and to hear the inflections in the voice do much to facilate the learning process. That's mostly lost in HTML!
Sorry to hear about Gil Kane. He was a little before my time, but he was definitely one of the early cornerstones of comic book art.
As for Blair Witch--overhyped profanity-a-thon. I was rather bored by the whole thing, when I wasn't nausiated by the camera work. The only positive thing I see coming from it, is that perhaps independent films might be taken more seriously by studios and the general public...nah!
Oh wow!! Time to check if Hell is frozen over.. yup, it is.. I *agree* with Syz!! Support his position! Huzzah it even!!.. There is no substitute for live and in the flesh, up close and personal for full and comprehensive comunication. We know that - it's why we go out of our way, at some inconvenience and expense, to meet people in person, with whom we already have other lines of communication (snail mail, e-mail, telephone, b-boards, through their public body of work). But wait! There's More!! The more people trying to comunicate at the same time and place, the less comunication is achieved by each of them.. Think large party, or wedding here.. If personal contact is so easily recognized as critical to full comunications everywhere else, WHY would we take it OUT of the teaching/mentoring process, where comunicating to the fullest is crucial (if not the sum and total of what is going on), and water down what little is left with huge numbers of people trying to communicate at the same time? The perfect teaching/mentoring scenario is one-on-one in person. Let's pump in THAT direction.. Sure, you can get a degree on-line, but is it the same quality of education attained by attending small classes and interacting personaly with your teachers? That's akin to claiming reading a post on Webderland by HE is no different than seeing him in a Panel at a convention, or having lunch with him... Dang!! *mumbles about no damn sense*
KEEGAN!! Congrats on that respectable 81!! *hug* :-) Glad to hear good news keeps rolling your way (with a lot of pushing on your part.. hee hee). NO Jazz questions on a Music History exam? yeesh! Course, maybe that just means Jazz isn't "history" yet.. ;-)
For those of you who follow the comics field, Gil Kane passed away yesterday morning in his Florida home.
A technology glitch cut short my last post...
Peter--
Seriously speaking, if you are intent on improving your writing then you might try organizing or joining a writing group. I've never been in one but from all reports they're very helpful. And usually free of charge. To cite just one example, Philip K. Dick got his start in a private writing group.
As for learning via the internet, I think it is greatly inferior to learning by interacting with people in real life. I'm a math major and you might think that math would be well suited to learning online, but believe me, it isn't. There's no substitute for getting together with classmates or a professor and making squiggles all over the chalkboard.
Paul
Im curious if anyone knows if Harlan liked Blair Witch Project. Did he even see the film. He must at least like a film that goes away from the standard knifekill template. And when the fuck is Politically incorrect gonna have him back on? Its been ages, he is one of the best guests ever. Coarse I am a bit biased. I will admit, Penn Jellet did outdebate him last time around. The internet has alot of trash, but its Democratic use goes beyond any personal quibble. Maybe Harlan is a closet luddite afterall.
While it is true the Internet is, comparitively, a sterile environ, it does allow for larger dissemination of information than a physical classroom.
As technologies evolve and merge, the virtual classroom becomes more and more likely.
Until next time. . .
Jim Hess
www.thinkingrockpress.com
Peter, since you go to SJSU, I would forget LeGuin and go hang out with Rudy Rucker in the CS department.
Jim and Peter:
While the notion of using the internet as a platform for classes on writing instruction may seem, on the surface, to be a sound solution to the old problem of limited classroom capacity, I don’t believe that I would enjoy such a class. Despite the fact that certain writing classes may be feted by hundreds of students at any given time, it remains the simple goal of any professorial lecture series to offer not only widely publicized demonstrations of learnable techniques, but also private instruction between student and teacher (or teacher’s assistant, in some cases.) I am suspicious of any mentoring session that relies solely upon the impersonal, de-humanizing technology of internet communication, especially when the principal object of consideration is the nature and practice of art.
In my own experience, the only sort of writing instruction that has offered any kind of valuable return has been that which was accomplished in the now soon-to-be-defunct space of the classroom. The internet, though perhaps a good medium for the exchange of sterile technical information, strikes me as something within which writing teachers and their students would find nothing but distance and separation. I may be wrong about this, however. (Note, as a software developer, I find the internet to be an invaluable source of information at times.)
Incidentally, the Random House/Del Rey website offers an online writing workshop for S.F. and Fantasy. Currently, there are hundreds of participants. As I have never submitted my own creative ‘work’ to this particular forum, I cannot say how rewarding the experience might be. People do read the ever-growing multitude of submissions, however, as evidenced by the seemingly endless number of posted critiques and reader reviews, some of which are quite insightful and instructive in their own right. Also, from what I can tell, this online service is free of charge.
http://www.randomhouse.com/delrey/workshop/
Heather:
I may be mistaken, but I think Cervantes is usually taught only at the college level, as the starting point in the history and development of the so-called modern novel. Because high-school curriculum must employ a greater, less refined scope---so as to provide only a general introduction of what fiction and literature ‘is’----invariably, novels of any significant length are typically passed over in favor of smaller, more compact (i.e., ‘teachable’) books: novels such as The Great Gatsby, The Scarlet Letter, The Count of Monte Cristo, Lord of the Flies, etc.
Well, for what it is worth my alma mater and the two other major universities in Colorado--the University of Colorado, Colorado State University, and the University of Northern Colorado--all have what is called 'distance learning' programs. The university without walls. A friend of mine from days of old (let's see, when did we met? Oh, right. Seventh grade. So that would make it--never mind how many years ago) works for CSU in distance learning and he has told me it is amazing the sheer number of people getting degrees now who never set foot in a physical class room.
Also, there is a program out of Denver called 'Ecollege.com' that offers on-line classes.
So it does already exist. The question now is: How to get it Out There to those who would most benefit from it?
Oh, right: I'm already doing that by way of my web site.
Seriously.
Until next time. . .
Jim Hess
www.thinkingrockpress.com
Well, for what it is worth my alma mater and the two other major universities in Colorado--the University of Colorado, Colorado State University, and the University of Northern Colorado--all have what is called 'distance learning' programs. The university without walls. A friend of mine from days of old (let's see, when did we met? Oh, right. Seventh grade. So that would make it--never mind how many years ago) works for CSU in distance learning and he has told me it is amazing the sheer number of people getting degrees now who never set foot in a physical class room.
Also, there is a program out of Denver called 'Ecollege.com' that offers on-line classes.
So it does already exist. The question now is: How to get it Out There to those who would most benefit from it?
Oh, right: I'm already doing that by way of my web site.
Seriously.
Until next time. . .
Jim Hess
www.thinkingrockpress.com
High school ed question for y'all.
I graduated from high school almost 4yrs. ago and from what I understand OR's education system is getting even worse. What I want to know is why are they not teaching at least small parts of Don Quixote to their english classes? Is it being taught in high schools anywhere? I understand that is too long for the entire book to be taught in most high school classes but it seems to me that Don Quixote makes up a major part of the foundation of modern lit. I know this is public education but still...
I wish I could take a course on the Internet so I could go to class naked.
Just wanted to let tout le monde know that I passed my comprehensive Music History Exam with a respectable 81.
There were 0 jazz questions.
Jim, as always, I've been trying to argue with you (just because we never seem to agree on anything) but you're right. For once, you are completely right. It really is that simple, especially in an age where you can get fifty kajillion email addresses from various free web based email services.
Only, you're preaching to the choir on this one. We'll scream out our hallelujahs and yes brothers, but it won't make a swig of difference. Boy, I sound defeatist right now, don't I?
Just wait, twenty years from now, I'll be writing about this event and it'll have transformed into "man, back when I was twenty-one years young and stupid, I got kicked out of a class taught by Ursula K. Le Guin. We knew how to get kicked out with style back then."
---Peter (I just reread Oedipus Rex. I forgot how good that one was)
furor scribendi
Time now for my regular dump in the punchbowl of knowledge from which we all drink.
On the matter of physical space as justification for keeping certain folks and kin outta a class room. Didja ever hear of a thing called the World Wide Web? This alone could solve the problem of how many people could be in a class. Here's how:
1.Set up a web page.
2. Everyone enrolled in the class submits, by e-mail (no FUCKING ATTACHMENTS, ALL RIGHT!) their writing assignment.
3. El Webmaster then, one at a time, cuts and paste a writing piece to the web page.
4. Everyone then submits, by e-mail, their opines and thoughts on the piece at hand, effectively laying waste to it.
5. Instructor of said course then comes back and makes pronouncement on assignment.
6. Owner of said piece then responds by e-mail for all to read.
7. Rinse.
8. Repeat.
Nah. That's waaaaay too goddamn simple.
Thoughts?
Until next time. . .
Jim Hess
www.thinkingrockpress.com
Todd, it was a once shot deal, and auditing wouldn't work because it is a question of physical space rather than arbitrary class sizes. The class is being held in a small conference hole in a two-story faculty office building where the tenured professors get to share an office with only one other person. Everyone else piles in three or four to an office.
By the way, this is at San Jose State University. It would have been nice to be in a class where I was told that a story of mine was bad just because it was bad and not because it doesn't fit some idiotic definition of "literary" work as proposed by previous writing professors of mine. Ah well. As I said, back into the void.
---Peter
furor scribendi
Well, Peter (not Paul), better luck next sememster/year. Unless this was your one shot. Perhaps she'll let you audit? I got to mouth off in Colman McCarthy's class at my final alma mater under much the same circumstances (and auditing gets that whole grade nonsense out of the way). Which school, UW?
Not to rub it in (if you've even heard of these guys--it will profit you to read their SF and other work), I did get to study with Robert Onopa and A. A. Attanasio, both of whom were excellent professors, even if I have been less than dutiful in continually applying their tutelage.
I met Ursula K. Le Guin today. She wouldn't let me add her class. The class was "full, in fact, it's over full."
oh well. Back to writing in a void.
---Peter
furor scribendi
[doing his oh-so lousy Harlan Ellison imitation] DON'T trust anyone under thirty. DON'T trust anyone over thirty. You're all a bunch of wankers, can't be trusted. *&^%$!
Seriously, I appreciate anyone with an intelligent thought regardless of age, and, for what it is worth, I am doing my widdle part to encourage intelligent thought.
Time now for a shameless self-plug: On my web site--www.thinkingrockpress.com--there is a page entitled "Is That A Fact". Twenty-six facts there, seven days a week. Go on. Visit. Learn something.
Until next time. . .
Jim Hess
Foot in the mouth time. That is what happens when someone tends to overgeneralize.
And, I should add, those under 30 who are into all of the things I quoted in my too smart-assed condolence, also visit the coolest websites and engage in the smartest discussions.
There: my olive branch :)
As unbelievable as it may seem, there are also people _under_ 30 who "still give a damn about history, literature and all the other good stuff that make our lives worth living." And some of these people have even read Van Vogt.
Paul
Time to pull Slan off the shelf and read it.
Just a quick note to express my condolences to Harlan for the loss of two great friends: Bill Dignin and A.E. Van Vogt.
I know no words can console the sorrow provoked by the parting of these two individuals. But at least their words and their actions will be well remembered by those of us over 30 who still give a damn about history, literature and all the other good stuff that make our lives worth living.
Awhile back we got off on the topic of comics. I made mention of "Bloom County". Earlier today, looking for a file, I found a "Bloom Country" strip I had kept for no apparent reason. It is about Geraldo (I will screw anything) Rivera and Binkley's anxiety closet.
Boy, the more things change--
Until next time. . .
Jim
Jim, I realize that when you mentioned "elephant dung", it was not a direct reference to my post. I just thought the proximity of the aforementioned word to your reaction to my post was apropos.
Until next time!
Paul
Sorry, Paul and Peter. Mounds of apologies, in fact.
Not to be dismissive of compliments, but the reference I made to elephant dung was a poke at the Brooklyn Museum of Art and the flinging of dung at things supposedly art. Further, there is an inside joke here: Harlan Ellison once told me my writing is "shit", so. . . (weakly) ha-ha.
Anyway, I don't claim to know what is or is not art. (Or Art, for that matter.) I know what I like. I know what I don't like, and I'll happily jam, with great passion, Michaelangelo's David up the asshole of anyone who insists on telling me (after asking for my opinion of) what Art is.
I think, to bring this discussion back to Harlan Ellison, Art is what *you* make of something.
And I'm something, ain't I?
Until next time. . .
Jim Hess
Keegan,
I agree with everything you said. Part of the problem is that some people -- as I used to -- tie their identity to their likes and dislikes and paint themselves into a corner taste-wise. When they defend their preferences, they are in effect defending their self-esteem. But obviously, it's a lot more fun being able to enjoy a wide range of experiences.
And finally, I think Jim Hess had the right idea when he mentioned "elephant dung" in connection with my initial post. I'm sure we all have better things to discuss than this philosophical drivel.
Paul, I understand your agitation. It still seems to be a prevailing attitude, especially in higher education and especially in Music. It is getting better and academics are learning to take a wider view. The problem tends to be that they're still looking through a "Western European" lens, despite the fact that they're looking at more.
I have to take a Music History comprehensive exam on Friday. I'm sure there will be few questions about Miles Davis, but I know that I need to know more about Beethoven!
To me, superiority isn't necessarily the issue. With these two musicians in particular, it's comparing apples and oranges. Beethoven, though reportedly an excellent pianist and violinist who could improvise, is chiefly remembered and revered for his body of compositions. Miles Davis was a far less prolific writer, and is remembered for his unique tone, his additions to the stylistic language of jazz, and approach to improvisation (spontaneous composition).
Comparisons of the sort your friend made (Beethoven is better than Miles) are meaningless because using the same criteria to make a judment of each individual artist is inappropriate.
By "worth", I suppose I was referring to spiritual worth, i.e., the kinds of feelings that the work inspires. Under this definition, the discussion takes on a moral or ethical tone. But the decision of what's moral or immoral in art is, I believe, best left to the individual.
Hence, my question was wrong-headed and non-productive. I wrote the original post in an agitated state...looking back over the conversation with my friend, I realized that what had upset me was that, in the course of explaining his ideas, he seemed to be arguing for the superiority of Western European culture over all others...a narrow-minded and even dangerous position.
That's alright then. I think what got me was that I'm sure I've asked Paul's question at least once on this board, back in my naively cynical pre-drinking age youth -- last year some time.
odd wells end wells.
---Peter
furor scribendi
Don't worry, Peter--Todd was just ribbing Peter to play Paul ...
Whoh, when did I enter this conversation?
---Peter
furor scribendi
Thanks, Kevin. Perhaps somewhat irrelevantly, sounds a bit like a period in which I was homeless, and at least twice came across a nice high-school acquaintance of mine named Deanna, and just happened to have a good book with me at the time (my property was mostly in storage). I gave Deanna the books I had on me on each occasion (Terry Carr and MH Greenberg's A TREASURY OF MODERN FANTASY was one, Judith Merril's 10th-anniversary retrospective of her YEAR'S BEST SF anthology was another, both probably have some Ellison but I don't remember).
Peter, you have to define such words as "worth"--a work of surpassing complexity and/or innovation that manages to influence a lot of work to follow has a certain amount of one kind of worth, a work which sells at Sotheby's for 16.5 million pounds has another. Art, as any person who agrees with us will agree, is not a field of human endeavor much given to objective measures, but tracing influence is about as close to objective as we can get in this kind of discussion...and that is problematic.
HISTORICAL RAMBLE AHEAD! Well, I hope GALAXY ONLINE works out well, we can use as many interesting webzines as we can get, particularly paying ones. The obfuscation about Bova's role at OMNI I mentioned in my last post had me casting back to the end of the '70s, when Ben Bova was wrapping up his tenure at ANALOG and another old friend of Ellison's, Ted White, ended his connection with AMAZING and FANTASTIC, after both had spent the '70s at their respective magazines (throughout that period, ANALOG was usuall the best-funded sf magazine, AMAZING and FANTASTIC the worst-funded fantastic magazines on newsstands, as opposed to semi-pro little magazines or fanzines. Bova published Ellison's "The Man Who Was Heavily Into Revenge," White published HE's "Strange Wine"). Bova went on to OMNI, White went on to HEAVY METAL, though both said they were offered the gigs after they quit their previous ones. They had both entered the speculative fiction field as professionals after beginning careers elsewhere (Bova as a writer and in other capacities in the aerospace industry, White as a jazz journalist at METRONOME and other magazines), and while both sold to other markets, both were perhaps most visible in Cele Goldsmith's AMAZING in the early 1960s, Goldsmith being the editor who vastly improved the magazine after Paul Fairman's policy of buying stories by the pound from Ellison, Robert Silverberg, Milton Lesser, and Randall Garrett. White's tenure at HM and other magazines tended to be stormy and brief...the publishers of STARDATE were terrified of losing their gaming audience, for example, and decommissioned White and David Bischoff's version of the magazine within a few issues; there was even talk of HUSTLER launching an OMNI-like magazine which White was interviewed to see if he might edit. OMNI was eventually handed over to Bova to some extent, and his old fiction-editor's job was offered to Ellison's other old friend, Robert Sheckley; other ventures, such as the "Ben Bova Discoveries" series of books, didn't last so long. Perhaps White might eventually write for this new GALAXY; surely White and Bova's colleague Frederik Pohl should be asked.
Not Sue! Xanadu! Xanadu! Please make the appropriate substitution in the last post. They kind of rhyme, see, and I got my brain in a knot . . .
Re: Art. In my utter devotion to the comic book genre, I've come across a neat little book called "Understanding Comic Books" by a guy named Scott McCloud, which I wholeheartedly recommend. You won't understand comic books any better, but it's an excellent little exploration of the medium and the ideas behind it. Anyway, McCloud's definition of art is anything a person does which doesn't directly fulfill a physical need like hunger or survival. Every joke is art, every idle act.
I enjoy this definition, and mine is just as broad in a different way. I have to go along with Sue somewhat on the nature of the beast as being subjective rather than ob-. As a disillusioned philosophy major, I think everything is defined by consensus. If enough people say that that giant can of cheeseballs is a chair, then it's a chair. If enough people say that something is art, then it's art. If enough people say that some art is better than other art, then it is. Truth doesn't change, but our understanding of it does. Find enough people to agree with you on your artistic views, and you create reality.
Things found while looking for other things - I came across the following and I'd like to share it with you:
http://www.realchangenews.org/reviews/fea_poetrybk.html
Real Change - The Voice of the Homeless
"Through the Looking Glass - Homeless Women's Chapbook Speaks from Experience" Review by Anitra Freeman
"One of my favorite authors is Harlan Ellison. Harlan Ellison's idea of an upbeat ending for a story is to have a man who has led a tragic life wake up to find that he is released from
Earth - he was only here as a reward, because the rest of the universe is so much worse.
"One summer day I came back to my room to find my roommate huddled on her bed, wedged into one corner of the wall, with Deathbird Stories, by Harlan Ellison, lying on the
opposite corner of the bed, as far from her as she could get it without committing the crime of knocking a book on the floor.
"Her first words to me were, 'God, how can you stand to read that stuff!' I sat down and told her about a letter Harlan Ellison received from a psychiatric nurse. Trying to calm a
wild, suicidal patient, and open up communication, the nurse read a Harlan Ellison story out loud. Halfway through, she had a moment of panic; she remembered that in this story,
the main character commits suicide. But she finished reading the story. The patient was quiet for a moment. Then she said, 'He does know that it hurts, doesn't he.'"
Anyone here surprised by that? Nice going, Harlan, well done.
Art? Wait. Let me put this bucket of elephant dung down.
You know, it seems to me that the folks who claim to know what Art is usually don't.
But what do I know?
Until next time. . .
Jim
Upon my latest visit - all previous problems I had had with GalaxyOnline and crashes have vanished. And while I had always liked the content - I just suspect that it'll go the way all good things do...
Paul - I suspect that "Art" is purely subjective and entirely in the mind of the audience. The "Artist" is merely a craftsman plying his craft and taken alone - it is merely craft. It is for an audience to decide if any particular work is "Art". And while an individual can make comparisons between works for himself - between individuals it only serves to highlight our different perspectives on the world. I suppose if enough people can agree something is "Art", it gets enshrined in our culture and taught to schoolkids. (Though for the life of me - I can't see Picasso's later works as "Art". And nothing from Punk Rock sounds like anything but noise... but that's just me)
Open question: is it possible to objectively quantify the worth of a piece of art? I realize this is a vague question -- after all, who's to say what the "worth" of a piece of art is? But a friend and I have been debating this question for some time and neither of us is on the verge of budging from our positions. He believes that certain works are superior to others --e.g., Beethoveen's work is superior to that of Miles Davis. He bases this view on the "message" contained in each, whatever that means. My position is that the value in a work is subjective, and that it may even be meaningless or non-productive to assign comparative worth to art work. Anyway, what do you guys think?
Move over on that "Easily Awed" bench Otto - you've got company. Just made my first visit to galaxyonline.. Wow! No problems accessing anything, and lots to read there. I think I'm gonna like it. :-) Don't really know or care how they finance it, just want more to read, and the price is right for *me* (cheap as a library, without the trip).
*HUG* and Hiya to all the regulars.
Rick: You could always go with AOL/Time-Warner.
Okay. I deserve a slap for that. A MAJOR slap.
Seriously, just today I got this thing in the postal for sagenetworks.com
Have no clue who they are or what they are about. But, there it is.
I would suggest my local IP but I'm starting to get seriously grumpy with them. (Don't get me started.)
Until next time. . .
Jim
Oh, shameless plug time: A review of "Galaxy Quest" is up my site. Stop by, wipe yer feet, don't annoy the Wild Bunch, and give her a read.
Couple of notes - I did talk to HE today about the Buckley School, I'll have an update on the news page today. HE is still planning on doing the GALAXY ONLINE columns but he did express some reluctance to get involved writing a regular column again and I got the impression it wasn't his top priority at the moment. Of course, no one will be happier to see it when he does do one.
Also, this will go on the news page as well but Webderland is looking for a new home - I have no idea how long we will be privileged to remain on our present server but it won't last. I need a place to support Webderland and my much smaller personal crap. Ideally I just need a network address somewhere I can drop a Linux box off of with a persistent IP address and have telnet and FTP access into it. If not that, anyone with a Unix/Linux box who doesn't mind putting a few things on it like RealAudio serving and MySQL would be great...
Just call me "Otto the easily awed." I actually like galaxyonline. Yes, yes, I know it's not much to look at, but I enjoyed everything that they do have up. ("Oooooo! Spider Robinson!") The vibes I'm getting are that they overestimated their readiness and tried to launch the deal when they were only partially prepared. The "letter from the CEO" makes mention of a lot of features which he obviously expected to be present at the inception. It's definitely nowhere near being the site they wish it to be, but I don't think it's an entirely inauspicious beginning.
I have to say that I'm a little confused as to the reports of crashing at the site -- I'm using my roommate's computer, which my roommate assembled, and which tends to make funny noises and balk at anything other than text. Additionally, the university's connection is so slow that our EIS department got to scream at AT&T for a couple of hourse last week. But I'm not having any problems loading. Luck? Divine providence?
Must be fate smiling on me, because I've managed to meet an HE fan on campus -- people have dubbed us "the Harlan Ellison whores." We've been caught up in a veritable frenzy of trading science fiction and insightful essays. Isn't it great how inflammatory literature can help make this world a smaller place?
RE: The Galaxy Online site. Well, not to piss on anybody's parade from the window of the library deposity, effectively becoming the second gunman, but I have to say that from day one I have this unsettling feeling about this whole thing. First, in researching the joint I find it is effectively a PR machine for Dreamworks SKG, which is a money laundering outfit for the DNC and Clinton.
Which, I let go. Okay, so one more corrupt do-dah. Whoopie. No one else gives a damn, why should I?
Then we come to the sponsorship by Pepsi? Huh? Shoot, folks, there are all sorts of banner ads and affiliations they could have gone with, but Pepsi? We had a race track out my way that was sponsored by Pepsi, and went belly up because Snapple wanted to run a concession line into the place, so Pepsi pulled out and the place is now destined to become a strip mall.
Then we come to the technie stuff. Yeah, I'm running on G3 Powerbook and Microsoft Explorer browser (I hate the f***ing Netscape on this thing. It crashes if you burp.), and it's grunting and groaning under all the stupid graphics loaded on this site.
Then there IS no contact e-mail. (I had found one originally, when it first went up, e-mailed the folks in charge about linking my site to theirs. Never heard word one. Oh, like that's a surprise. Discrimination in the ranks of sci-fi, fantasy, horror, science fiction. D'oh! Didn't see THAT comin'. . . )
Then there are all these dead links and missing pages. Geez.
As one who has crashed and burned a few times when it comes to building my site, I can't really take them to task over at GalaxyOnline for initial growing pains, but I have to wonder just what really is going on, and why Harlan Ellison, when he has so much more going for him, would get snarled up in this.
Okay. NOW you can break out the tar and feathers.
Until next time. . .
Jim
Todd, et al.
The Galaxy Online site kept causing crashes for me as well, and I solved the problem - with Finder's help - by turning off Java and JavaScript in my Netscape browser - As a Mac user, I choose not to use IE before the Apocalypse arrives. (Someday, I'll have to let you guys in on my theory of why Bill Gates is the Fifth Horseman...)
Barney - I have been wondering the same thing myself (Re: Cashflow) The only area on the site that seems to have a chance of answering that had a password entry. (Investors)
Lastly - in a humorous vein - Mr. Bova speaks of how interactive this site will be, and as of the last time I went to it (yesterday), I couldn't find hide nor hair of an e-mail address anywhere - let alone a more complicated mechanism of feedback. (Though I will concede it may be due to the fact that I have had to turn off Java and JavaScript.)
As with everyone else - an inauspicious beginning for such a highly touted site...
GALAXY ONLINE was up and running by the morning of the 17th, but for some reason my Navigator browser kept crashing whenever the original advertising site tried to transfer me. Using Explorer later that day got me to the real site, but the continuation pages of Spider Robinson's essay were crashed on their end. Perhaps trying at work, with a T1 line, might be more fruitful. Once there, there was more advertising, a few columns, and an editorial by Ben Bova that was prefaced by a note claiming Bova was the initial editor of OMNI. I know he was the initial fiction editor, and eventual general or managing editor, but screwing up the little details (and starting two weeks and a few days late and leaving pages crashed) amounts to a rocky, unsatisfying start. We shall see.
*** Hey Gang *** Good news. I spoke with Harlan on Saturday morning and he told me that the Berkley School has been forced to completely back off on their bid to expand their grounds. Apparently this has even gone so far as to require that they knock down or plow under whatever construction they had begun last November around the time of the Readercon. There was a brief article regarding this over the weekend in the local paper out there. I don't honestly know if this was the L.A. Times or Weekly. I know the various counties have separate editions and while Harlan is in Sherman Oaks I'm afraid I can't point to the exact day or edition. Perhaps the message Harlan left on Rick's machine will have more details. In any event, Harlan got a brief mention as one of the more outspoken [imagine that] opponents to this attempt at urban sprawl. I believe the gist of it was that the Berkley School felt their kids needed tennis courts more than Tarzana needed watershed land. I'm sure the locals will all have more to say about this.
Regarding Galaxy On-line. I am more disturbed by the fact that Harlan is no longer on the contributors list then by the fact that the column isn't there. I hope it has to do with the fact that the other listed contributors have fixed dates for the posting of their contributions. When I asked about it, ummm, let's just say the response didn't speak directly to the question. What I don't understand with respect to Galaxy on-line is the business model. The only apparent sponsor is Pepsi. Where's the money? If you click on the individual columns there are no additional distractions. This is not a double-click intensive web-site. I'm not complaining mind you. I'm all for content without distractions - I just don't see how the model can last. Has Pepsi sprung a cash leak? Point me to the spill-zone! What I will complain about is the graphics. The freaking countdown page was more interesting looking! And those colors! Pink and Green? Not even on a Miami Vice re-run could that be considered a good idea.
Next! - Harlan tells me that Robin Williams has completed his work on the production of "Repent! Harlequin, said the Ticktockman" for the Beyond 2000 series. Also, Terry Dowling has completed his work on the revised "Essential Ellison" and had gone up the coast to do some work on a project with Jack Vance, another writer of no small talent. Check out "Wyrmwood" and "Rhynocceros", both by Terry Dowling and possibly both misspelled, if you can find them. Neat stuff.
Tune in next week when I will cover my discussion with Harlan regarding "The Toad Prince, or Sex Queen of the Martian Pleasure Domes" and how even though I persist in sticking my hand into the cage of the beast and waggling my fingers about I still have enough of them to type with. Tentatively titled "What I Did On My Winter Vacation by Little Barney Dannelke, Age 40." Later folks...
JIM: I checked out GALAXYONLINE on the 16th or 17th, and IT IS up and running, with several columns, items, etc. I may be wrong, but I think the announcement said that the site would be up an running by the 15th, but it didn't give any specific date as to when Ellison's monthly column would begin. Patience, Grasshopper. Out here, DTS.
Harlan will probably step on my neck for even asking this, but here goes:
Awhile back there was mention of a new on-line effort, Galaxyonline.com
So I went to this URL. Found a message there that said the site would go live 1 January 2000.
So I went back 1 January and found another message that said the site would live 15 January 2000,
So I went back 15 January.
And 16 January.
And 17 January.
And. . . no Harlan Ellison, which is the big reason I went there.
Have I missed something? Was there a memo I should have read on this? Was there a meeting on this?
Thoughts?
Until next time. . .
Jim
Damn carets.
"go to http://www.creators.com/comics/compage/lib/book/ ..."
To those who enjoy Liberty Meadows: Because they're still wrangling over book collection deals, Frank Cho has been reprinting the strips in comic book form (#6 just came out Wednesday).
Problem is, the first few sold out INCREDIBLY fast (and are deservedly worth a small chunk of cash).
But there is a solution.
They're offering issues one through six for twenty bucks (not bad, as the actual issues cost $2.95 each, and #1 is already valued at around ten bucks or more), and, if you don't want to risk the comic shop, you can get a subscription to issues seven through twelve for twice that.
Go to to get the offer--but it's better if you buy the comic book; in those is the coupon to buy the book of Cho's college strips and his "serious" illustration work (in the spirit of Franklin Booth, Norman Rockwell, Vargas, and various pulp artists, as well).
Glad you like Boondocks - the official site is worth looking at (I have the URL in an earlier post).
I'd like to thank people for the "Liberty Meadows" recommendation. Neither of the Chicago papers cary it, so I started reading it online. This is one weird strip, and I love it. That, and it had a great insult towards "Zippy the Pinhead" last week.... ;)
Regards,
Joseph
Hey all! My local paper doesn't get Boondocks, so I've been looking at on line when I look at Dilbert. It's terrific! Thanks for the heads up!
Rick? Are you there, Rick? I got something for you to pass on to Mr. Harlan Ellison (I would call him at home, owing to the fact I have his number, but. . . I'm rather fond of my ass and I don't want him chewing it off for interrupting him.):
I was having a conversation with this woman today in the School of Education at the University of Colorado, and the conversation came around to my writing.
I have to ask, she said. Where did you learn to write like you do?
Well, I said after a moment. I would say much of my writing owes itself to a fellow named Harlan Ellison.
Her eyes widen in response, she gasped, and I thought, "Oh, shit. One of those."
I love Harlan Ellison, she said. Do you know him?
I've met him, I said.
Oh, wow, she said. I'm impressed. I wish we had more teachers like him.
So, HE, you did good. You did really good.
Until next time. . .
Jim
www.thinkingrockpress.com
Todd - it can be found on a various artists disc titled "Jingle Bell Jazz" which, near as I can tell, is still in print; it also boasts the likes of Dexter Gordon, Dave Brubeck, McCoy Tyner, Lionel Hampton, Duke and Miles, among many - quite the stocking stuffer, and probably my favorite holiday listening.
That's a find, Finder. Though that would've been Lambert, Hendricks, and Ross scatting over the Ike Isaacs Trio, their usual accompanists in their early recordings. I'll have to seek that out...thanks! I imagine you'd have Keegan excited about that as well, if she hasn't previously heard/heard of that...
Well, small publisher Haffner, which has at least one slightly outdated website, is the source of the Ellison-introduced collected Jack Williamson, THE WOLVES OF DARKNESS. And Houghton Mifflin, which has been exploiting their BEST AMERICAN SHORT STORIES franchise fairly profitably with the Kennison and Updike BEST AM SS OF THE CENTURY, decided, as DTS notes, to exploit their newish BEST AMERICAN MYSTERY STORIES franchise the same way, with an Otto Penzler-Tony Hillerman book (frankly, it probably should've been Bill Pronzini who was tapped, but since this is as much commercial stunt as thoughtful representation of the century's criminous fiction...). HM will sell you a limited edition for $150. Humph. But the full book ("Includes stories by: O. Henry; Willa Cather; Jacques Futrelle; Frederick Irving Anderson; Melville Davisson Post; Susan Glaspell; Richard Connell; Dashiell Hammett; Wilbur Daniel Steele; Ring Lardner; Ernest Hemingway; Ben Ray Redman; MacKinlay Kantor; John Steinbeck; James M. Cain; Damon Runyon; Lester Dent; Raymond Chandler; Pearl S. Buck; Cornell Woolrich; James Thurber; William Faulkner; Ellery Queen; Harry Kemelman; John D. MacDonald; John Dickson Carr; Charlotte Armstrong; Ross Macdonald; Margaret Millar; Stanley Ellin; Evan Hunter; Henry Slesar; Mickey Spillane; Flannery O'Connor; Patricia Highsmith; Shirley Jackson; Jerome Weidman; Joe Gores; Robert L. Fish; Joyce Carol Oates; Harlan Ellison; Stephen King; Jack Ritchie; Lawrence Block; Stephen Greenleaf; Sara Paretsky; Sue Grafton; James Ellroy; Donald E. Westlake; Charles McCarry; Brendan DuBois; Michael Malone; James Crumley; Tom Franklin; and Dennis Lehane") sounds promising, although any such book that leaves out Robert Bloch and includes Kemelman, King, and Spillane has already raised my ire at least to that extent; I don't remember whether Kersh was a Brit or not, I must admit, but it's too bad that emigre John Collier wouldn't make the cut. Paretsky and Grafton but no Marcia Muller? Humph. And any attempt to divide the literary lions from the mere hacks need not be done by we who should know better: there are plenty of days in which pulpster Lester Dent wrote a lot better than Hemingway. Even if no Doc Savage novel is quite up to A FAREWELL TO ARMS.
ALL: Out in April from Houghton Mifflin, THE BEST MYSTERY STORIES OF THE CENTURY includes a selection by Harlan Ellison ("The WHimper of Whipped Dogs"). It's over 800 pages and includes work by the usual suspects (Chandler, Block, Paretsky,Grafton, Ross Macdonald, John D. MacDonald), a few that were not expected(James Thurber,Ring Lardner, Willa Cather, Shirley Jackson, S. King), and the prerequisite "literary" folks (Hemingway, Faulker, Flannery 'O Conner). Also, the story mentioned below, "The Problem of Cell 13" by Jacques Futrelle, is included. Out here, DTS.
Charlie,
Do you have any more information on that Jack Williamson collection? Nothing comes up under Wolves of Darkness in any of the book sites. Perhaps you have an ISBN, if you have the book?
Thanks!
ALL: An anthology entitled MASTER'S CHOICE ed. by Lawrence Block is available at fine book stores everywhere. The premise is that "masters" of short crime fiction were asked to select a favorite story of their own, and then a favorite short story by a "master" who had inspired them. Writers included are S. King, L. Block, Donald Westlake, and more. And, of course, Harlan Ellison. Who selected "Tired Old Man" as his favorite short story (actually, in an intro,he states that it is in the top first percentile of his own favorites). His choice of story and and writer? Well, he asked to be able to pick three, but Block nixed that. So he picked "The Problem of Cell 13" by Jacques Futrelle (the other two writers & stories), mentioned in the intro, are "The Human Chair" by Edogawa Rampo - a Japanese suspense writer -- and "The Ears of Johnny Bear" by John Steinbeck. Who'd a thunk it? Before cracking the book covers, I would've laid even money that Ellison's pick would be something by Gerald Kersh. Go figure. Out here, DTS.
Barney: Thanks for the tip, but I already own two versions of THE HORNBOOK, each of which contain the piece on Carlson. I thought if HE pasted excerpts here he could get folks to run out and buy the item you named.
But what do I know?
Until next time. . .
Jim
HE adds an introduction to the latest Jack Williamson collection, volume 2-Wolves of Darkness
***Jim***
You can get Harlan's essay "Comic of the Absurd" about George Carlson and Jingle Jangle comics in a book edited by Richard Lupoff titled "All In Color For A Dime" which is currently in print. I've seen copies in Borders/ B&N / and a couple of my local comic shops. Later...
On the whole question of the overbearing type of Christian: one of the conflicts that helped shape my conscious decision to keep the good Catholic values while rejecting the shoddy and self-serving Catholic politics was the complete disregard for one very specific piece of scripture ignored by the hardcore, in your face preachers: Matthew, Chapter Six, verses 6-15, in which Jesus provides instruction in prayer: not ³like the hypocrites, who love to pray standing in the synagogues and at the street corners, in order that they may be seen by men² but rather, ³...go into thy room, and closing thy door, pray to thy Father in secret; and thy Father, who sees in secret, will reward thee.² Also included in the passage is a warning about quantity over quality and how God will forgive offenses if men forgive the offenses of others. The most recent Catechism of the Catholic Church (an 842 page monster of a paperback, up 650 pages from the 1933 edition) gives this teaching the short-shrift, emphasizing that the church, above all, is the proper place for prayer. (Of course, the same-said rule book asserts that surrogate motherhood is ³gravely immoral², and one incurrs ³grave guilt² if their drunkenness or love of speed endangers people on the roads, the seas or air - I kid you not.) The New Testament contains a lot of good ideals and teachings. It¹s the 2,000 years of reinterpretation and misrepresentation (the same-said rule book claims, and I quote, ³Christ instituted the sacrament of pennance for all sinful members of his Church...² and yet in their lavishly footnoted book, they don¹t cite one scripture location in support of this claim. A church publication in support of the practice from 1343 - but nothing New Testament) that have distorted the intent and meaning, that I find appauling.
Todd - I¹ve acually got a Christmas jazz compilation that contains a version of ³Deck Us All With Boston Charlie² - actually the first verse done carol-style by Lambert, Hendricks and Ross, bookending a jazz/scat performance by the Ike Isaacs Trio - good, uncommon Christmas fun. (And if for no other reason, I miss ³Bloom County² because if Berke Breathed could work ³Casper Weinberger² into a poem, I can only imagine the delicious fun he could have had with ³Monica Lewinsky²
PEG: To see religion being forced down the throats of the general public, all you have to do is look around the country (via the papers, etc) where you'll find things like money stamped with religious phrases, communities trying to enforce prayer in public schools, etc. Not to mention the recent happenings over in Kansas, where the school board dropped the teaching of Evolution (a well-established field of science, not to mention a cornerstone) in favor of "creationism," which translates as religion -- WESTERN, Christian, religion. The worst offenders in our country are christians, especially fundamentalist christians (who have always forced their beliefs on others). It may not seem like a lot to a believer, but that's how integrity is lost -- inch by inch, hour by hour, yard by yard, day by day. Thomas Jefferson was a christian. He knew the importance of keeping the state and the church separate. And in his NOTES ON VIRGINA, he wrote: "...it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods or no gods, It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg." Jefferson was what I think of as a good christian -- believing in his god, but not forcing it on others. As long as christians demand their beliefs enter the public arena, and as long as they succeed (as Callie Johnson did in Kansas), then other religions should be given equal time: Wiccans, buddhists, Islamics, etc. Otherwise, the religious viewpoints are nothing more than government indoctrination. From what I've glommed of religions, the best ones are those in which personal spiritual beliefs are kept inside (so the remain pure, and personal) -- not the kind that require neon signs, millions of door-to-door pamphlets, commercials on television, government assistance (whether it be in the form of tax breaks or required learning in public schools), etc. With all that sort of crap going on day-to-day, how can you NOT realize that religion is forced on us in this country (and I haven't mentioned the oolitical, religious groups, but no, they DON'T compare to the other PACS because the religions are pushing something far more personal and insidious). Jefferson is no doubt rolling over in his grave. As to the other things you brought up, I'm pretty certain that I _didn't_ say the terms "bible-thumping" and "morons" weren joined at the hip. To be one does not neccessarily mean you have to be the other. But people who think they have some sort of "moral" obligation to shove their religious beliefs down the throats of others (who wish them no harm), well...yes, they are morons (that includes the frontrunner of the Republican party, a guy who has stated he takes the King James version of his bible literally...and who may well become our next president -- scary).
I'm sure you're a nice person, Peg. And until I have proof otherwise, I'll include you in the "good" christian group -- the ones who don't force themselves on the rest of us. Now. Next time I post, it will be with something Ellison-related (I promise). Out here, DTS.
Actually, there have been political attempts to force people to be Christians. Witness the attempted placing of the Christian version of the 10 commandments in courtrooms and classrooms over the past couple of years, which was ruled by the US Supreme Court in 1980 to be a violation of the Constitutional prohibition (from Amendment I) against establishment of religion. Also witness such insults to other religions as prayer in schools, prayer before the opening of Congress, religious displays in public places, etc. Hell, I could bring up the prohibition against non-Christian chaplains in the United States Army up until 1864.
I agree that any Christian has a perfect right to follow their beliefs. That does not mean I'm going to allow them to force their beliefs on me.
Anyway, it really burns my grits when I see how bad of a translation they use on the commandments....
Regards,
Joe
DTS -
Which is it that would classify one as a moron - believing in the Bible, believing in a supernatural being (God, that is), or wanting to enforce your beliefs on the whole nation? Just looking for some clarification, so I know if I fit the term or not...
BTW, as far as I'm aware there's not been any political action instigated to force people to be christians. They have tried to influence politics and legislation in areas where they have strongly felt moral positions, be they faith based or not. Just the same as other PACs and lobbyists have tried to do the same for their beliefs or particular issues. Besides, isn't it a citizens privelege and responsiblity to try and affect our government and laws where we feel they are inadequate or inappropriate?
I am not defending christian activists or trying to state they are right or wrong (I don't always agree with them anyway - personally I think the core of christian faith and lifestyle is interpersonal relationships, not politics). But just because someone acts on their beliefs, within the law and the political system, on an issue you do not agree with, does not make them morons.
Which is not to forget about such geniuses, or close enough, as Carol Lay (STORY MINUTE), Bill Waterson (C&H), Toms Toles and Tomorrow, Gary Larson, Matt Groening, Lynda Barry, and, again, the fine journeymen of TANK MCNAMARA, and that's just sticking with the newspaper crowd. And, of course, it's Alison (one L) Bechdel who does the brillian DYKES TO WATCH OUT FOR...Watterson?
Hey, Keegan. You might remember the period in the late '70s or early '80s in which a lot of papers wouldn't run DOONESBURY on their comics pages, because of their contracts with Trudeau's syndicate demanding the enlargement (aside from those which yanked DOONESBURY, as they used to with POGO, and put it on the editorial pages)...and PEANUTS was one of the first strips to encourage the diminished size, back in the early '50s. Certainly when one considers that FUNKY WINKERBEAN, BLOOM COUNTY, and not a few others have been at least strongly influenced by DOONESBURY, it's certainly among the most important as well as best of the strips...but my favorite, as it is my phellow Phil's, probably remains POGO, 25 years from '48 to '73 and some slightly misguided, if well-intentioned, attempts at revival. Walt Kelly was usually modest about his achievement, consistently comparing himself unfavorably to the likes of Anatole France, but how often did France present his work to the public in daily paragraphs? And could he fracture Christmas carols? And draw so brilliantly and busily? I wonder how much Kelly's political approach influenced Trudeau. KRAZY KAT, Crockett Johnson's BARNABY, Winsor McKay's LITTLE NEMO and RAREBIT FIEND, even LI'L ABNER and Milton Caniff's strips, and the other earlier classics seem to be followed closely only by hardcore fans; Eisner's work has some Spirited wider audience, due to all the collections, but I keep meeting people who will sing a verse or two of Kelly's "Deck Us All with Boston Charlie..."
RE: Harlan Ellison and comics. I was looking up something today and came across an item in THE HARLAN ELLISON HORNBOOK that relates to the comic and cartoon strip discussion here: "Comic of the Absurd", on George Carlson. Nice piece. I wonder, would unca Harlan print excerpts here?
Until next time. . .
Jim
Keegan: Doonesbury is, of course, a given (in fact, I still have a hand-written postcard that Trudeau sent my eleven-year-old self seventeen years ago when I mailed him a fan letter. It's crumpled, but I'm holding on to it--and it's on a Doonesbury postcard!).
But Pogo still rules.
I say this, loving Doonesbury, treasuring Calvin and Hobbes, laughing madly at Liberty Meadows, marveling at Bloom County, cracking up at Kudzu, dancing stupidly to the Peanuts song, wishing I had been alive to read the Toonerville Folks each day, or the really GOOD Terry and the Pirates, or the early Little Orphan Annie, or the Spirit sections (oh, The Spirit ... Will Eisner is, of course, co-God, along with Jack Kirby) (Hmm ... I guess that'd make Neal Adams, Jim Steranko, and Frank Miller a triumverate Godson, with Matt Wagner, P. Craig Russell, George Perez, James Owen, Michael Zulli, and others in varying degrees of beatification).
Pogo is still the tops.
And one thing angers me about Sparky Schultz: My favorites were always the obsure characters.
I miss Franklin and Five (Five, of course, being Peanuts' most political character, his father having decided that people were, more and more, being reduced to numbers and naming his sons Five and ... um ... dunno.).
DOONESBURY! Trudeau still rocks!
And I second "Dykes to Watch Out For". My mother-in-law sends along issues of the Funny Times when she's done with 'em.
I have to say that I don't like the Peanuts re-runs. In the 70s,comic strips were smaller. The old strip looks incongruous with the other strips in my paper. The Syracuse Post-Standard runs them in the modern size which elongates the round heads. (BTW: According to an article on Salon.com about Garry Trudeau's career, they credit him with leading the crusade to make strips larger. It's a great article. You might enjoy their recent article about the career of Charles Schulz).
I love the Peanuts like a good Amer'can girl should, but I'd rather my paper ran another strip and let good ol' Charlie Brown go to his just reward.
Give the space to an up-and-comer.
TODD: We could argue the specifics of Repubs vs Dems until the cows come home, but the bottom line for me is this: the majority of Dems haven't (as yet) gotten into bed with (and snuggled up close to) the bible-thumping morons that want to enforce their belief in a supernatural being on the whole country. Politicians should all come with a Surgeon General's warning label. And when they come at you walking hand in hand with the Jerry Falwells, Pat Robertsons and Billy Grahams of the world, they should be marked "extremely virulent." Okay that's enough about politics for a while...Anybody see "The Insider," "Any Given Sunday" or "The Cider House Rules?" For my money, they're all worth the 4 bucks and change. Out here, DTS
Btw, DTS--I, too, was making a living during Reagan and Bush's admins, or at least trying to, and I suspect that you like me are doing better now than we were fifteen years ago--but that's more likely because we've been at this job thing for that long and more, not because the Democratic (sic) Leadership (sic) Council (sick) neoliberals have done a damned thing other than grease the paths for large corporations just as eagerly as the GOP neocons did before them. And the national deficit is being "managed" at least in part by some of the same creative accounting that the previous Republican admins engaged in, such as simply not spending money set aside by law for use only in social services--they don't spend the money, so it stays on the books, and the only folk who suffer are those who want clean air, decent roads, fully-funded school systems, and other trivia. Meanwhile, the government becomes ever less competent as more and more of it s functions are handed off to contractors who have little incentive to assure the job's done right, so much as to assure that they continue being paid. Political junkies used to like to call Libertarians "Republicans who take drugs"; clearly, Clintonian/neolib Democrats are Republicans who sleep around.
Well, hell, Alex, the INQUIRER doesn't even carry TANK MCNAMARA, and the WEEKLY dropped Cecil Adams's THE STRAIGHT DOPE column. If the GAY NEWS ever dumps Allison Bechdel's DYKES TO WATCH OUT FOR, which is a strip I can recommend to the straightest of the straight and the least het of gay men, I guess I'll just have to move. (Firebrand Books publishes collections of the DYKES stips, available at the megachain or socially enlightened bookstore nearest you.) Since DREAM CORRIDOR has become so sporadic, the only comic books I find myself continuing to pick up are Joe Lansdale's (largely for his own Mojo Press and Vertigo, since Topps faded on his LONE RANGER AND TONTO revival), the odd Rachel Pollack (mostly for Vertigo), and Roberta Gregory and the Hernandez Bros, who mostly publish with Fantagraphics. But I'm quite sure there's a lot of great stuff I'm missing...although some rather interesting stuff I choose to pass over retains what I call the comic-booky feel--a tendency for adolescent simplicity of motive and emotional expression. Ain't no kid no more, don't play that way. Didn't like it much back then, either.
Speaking of holdovers from adolescence, I just lost in a bid on a famous auction site (hmm, wonder which) on a set of items I'd desired for twenty years or so, to someone who outbid me by a quarter in the literal last minute of the auction (after my bid had been registered for more than a week, as the sole bid, and when I was working so I couldn't respond as readily as my competitor). So all my suspicions about the impoverishment of the human spirit seem justified, or at least the world seems a bit too gray. Thanks for the violins! Beats the sound of self-righteous sullenness, which unfortunately THE BOONDOCKS too often wallows in, by a good sight. (Too often, the television show I'm reminded of by THE BOONDOCKS is the essentially lily-"white" but similarly narcissistic POPULAR.) TB and the folk scandalized by the strip's "controversial" content deserve each other, and certainly have each other, long may they.
Well, hell. Mea culpa koopa pokemon.
(Hey, Rick or Barney: can we find out what comics [more recent than the blessed Toonerville Folks or George Carlson's stories, that is] the Patron Artist here favors? Maybe we'll find some things we've not yet stumbled across ...)
Alex,
Sorry to disappoint you, but I now have the straight dope on the style of "The Boondocks." I quote directly from the FAQ of the official Boondocks site (www.boondocks.net):
Q: Is Aaron's drawing style influenced by anime/manga?
A: Yes. He likes anime a lot. He used to spend too much money at Pandora's Cube. (store in College Park).
Q: Has Aaron ever written graffiti?
A: Nope. A lot of writers think that the Boondocks comes from a graffiti perspective but alas, Aaron has never tagged, burned,
or gotten up in any fashion. But he ain't no toy!
Hopefully, this will settle this question.
Regards,
Joseph
Alex,
Thanks for the thought on "Boondocks." While I still see a manga influence here (and, obviously, many people have been reading manga in the United States long before the recent influx), I agree that there may also be a graffiti art influence there. Considering the two brothers (especially the younger one and his recent re-naming of the neighborhoods' streets) who are the main focus of the strip, this seems to me to be a good point.
However, I do think that a manga influence cannot be completely discounted here, especially since anyone trained in art over the past decade or so certianly would have at least a passing familiarity with the style. Personally, I can't help but think of the lovely manga adaptation of "Return of the Jedi" as having a somewhat similar style.
Regards,
Joe
Actually, a small correction, Joseph: The big-hair, small-face, edgy-line style that Aaron MacGruder uses to such good effect in his Boondocks strip has for years and years been a staple of the better graffiti artists, at least around here. I'm pretty sure it predates the manga/anime influx.
I love the strip, myself.
But I STILL wish my paper would carry "Liberty Meadows", dammit! It's annoying to have to look it up on the Washington Post Website ...
A note on "Boondocks," which I thoroughly enjoy: part of the fun of living her in Chicago (and having grown up in the suburbs) is reading the complaining letters to the Chicago Tribune (which runs "Boondocks") from people (my guess: white middle-aged and older suburbanites by the tone of the letters) for whom the strip seems to strike a little too close to home. I can usually count on at least one letter a week in this vein. Heheheh.
But seriously, I love the art style of "Boondocks," with it's take on manga-style graphics. Nice and sardonic (if not off-putting at times, but great humor often is), and it's usually run on Sundays here in nice double-sized panels, so you can see how comics should look on Sunday.
RE: Bloom County. Well, last I knew the ol' Berkster lived not too far from me. But he may have moved on to Aspen or the likes. The reason I think they oughta bring "Bloom County" back is because of the political element to the strip and because of the nonsense now being perpetuated by the politicos.
Speaking of idiots, I see the head village idiot (Clinton) is now blathering that he might follow in the footsteps of the only other president to be impeached, and run for Congress.
Lawdy.
On another note, I'm not saying "Bloom County" is a great strip like Pogo or that. Not even close. I just like it, that's all. I used to have this oversized Bill the Cat stuffed toy. But then one of the wild bunch took a dislike to it and, well, do you know how hard it is to get every little piece of stuffing out of shag carpet?
Until next time. . .
Couple scattered thoughts:
Yes, I love Peanuts; have done for years. Still, it rankles to see Sparky Schultz referred to as either the best or most influential cartoonist ever.
Sorry.
Three words:
"Walt Kelly" and "Pogo".
Best damn strip EVER.
And yes, I miss Bloom County, too--but there's solace. Go read "The Boondocks" (two young black radical children--Huey and Riley--are moved against their will from Chicago's South Side to a whiter-than-white suburb in Cali).
Better yet, go read Frank Cho's EXCELLENT "Liberty Meadows".
This strip is the BEST thing to come into the newspapers in the last ten years.
Both strips are available on various newspaper websites like the Washington Post, and Liberty Meadows is being collected in comic book form (until the artist can hammer out a book collection deal), now up to the fifth issue. Go read 'em. They're roll-over-laughter inducing.
And, on Clinton:
He's better than the ones who came before him.
Bear in mind, however, that's saying VERY little.
Play nice, kids ...
Speaking of Ellison on TV... I turned on Alfred Hitchcock last night on my local PBS station and they were showing MEMO FROM PURGATORY. I liked it, though I've never read the source material. Walter Koenig as the gang leader Tiger was an interesting casting choice, but James Caan... well. I spent most of the show catching Ellison references. "In case of accident return this to Cerita Shaw, Trenton, Ohio"
---Peter
Furor Scribendi
TODD: Can't speak for Barney, but I can say that I was old enough to be out of school and working in the real world during the Reagan and Bush administrations, and trying to eke out a living (as opposed to living at home, or living at a dorm, or any other variant of not REALLY supporting yourself). And life, for those of us in the middle class arena, has vastly improved during the last eight years. Granted, not all the problems in the lower class have been taken care of (and short of a communal society, I sometimes wonder if they ever will), but greater domestic strides were made during this administration than the previous two -- and we've even started to dig our way out of debt. No one's saying Bill and party are the end all and be all (remember Ellison's message in SLIPPAGE -- pay attention), just that they're a damn sight better than the "morning in America" BS crew. Out here, DTS. (P.S. Phil PhuD -- sorry we're boring you -- go back to your Pokemon gameboy, and you'll feel better in the morning).
While I don't quite go along with Jim's more colorful comments about Peter Jennings (just another Canadian talking head), and also don't much care who other people couple with--err, pardon, receive oral stimulation from--I'm surprised how several of you have managed to buy every scrap of Clinton's PR--oh, yes, the unemployment rate is down, in part because people who can't or won't, but usually can't, find jobs are eventually written off the rolls (and the ones who do get jobs often get poverty wages); the economy is booming, if you're one of the wealthiest fraction or somehow closely connected to them--otherwise, you're probably noticing how wages have not been rising in relation to costs. Clinton is now, and has always been, the kind of Democrat who wants to remake his party into a clone of the Republican party (as if they haven't already been too close, at least since the Truman Admin)--just because he can speak extemporaneously in more-or-less complete sentences doesn't make him particularly acceptable...and I would've hoped a bunch of Ellison fans would've noticed this. There's a reason Clinton spoke so feelingly at Nixon's funeral, and it wasn't just noblesse oblige.
I've had the newest AMAZING STORIES kicking around for a month now, and hope to get to the Ellison story Any Time Now! Having picked up the new WEIRD TALES at the same time, I happened to bring them down to my folks' house for the holiday visit, and thus was able to show my father how AS and WT in their current incarnations (inpulpations?) are sporting essentially the same logos they were in the 1940s, when he was reading his grandfather's old copies up in the attic. "Only thing is, they should be five or six times as thick, with stiffer, rough-edged pages."
Don't know why PALADIN got the Alan Smithee treatment, but will suggest that perhaps the director sided with Ellison against CBS interference, or threw a tantrum when he or she couldn't play fast and loose with the script. As I remember it, Danny Kaye was more hammy than one would hope, the pacing of the whole deal rather too slow. There, that's probably the most "controversial" thing I've written here today.
All this is very boring.
I have a simple question. I noted on a NEW TWILIGHT ZONE site that HE's "Paladin of the Lost Hour" was directed by the notorious Alan Smithee. Would someone e me why?
JIM: YES! (a million times) YES! Oh, for those long ago days of "Bloom County" beatification (I loved the -- and _I_ may be remembering it wrong, the "man" couch, where Opus, Bill, and all the rest wore there skivvies, sat on the couch, burped, farted and made politically incorrect statements regarding gender, religion and politics). I also miss Calvin and Hobbes, Pogo, and even the Outlands (the short-lived reincarnation of "Bloom County." Sigh. It's been great visiting nostalgialand with you, but I gotta get back to work now. Out here (P.S. BARNEY -- so what DID you think of "The Toad Prince, or Sex Queen of the Martian Pleasure Domes" -- I have to go back and read it one more time before I can offer any sort of cognizant opinion -- it's that way with everything I read, which makes it a bitch to review something on short notice), DTS.
Turning now to another topic. Today ends Peanuts. I'll miss it. Gee, wouldn't it be great if Bloom County came back?
Oh, like that could happen.
Until next time. . .
JIM: Unwad your panties and unwrinkle your brain, m'boy. I was just "funnin'yuh" as they say in my old Texas. While all my facts were correct, the tone of my posting wasn't meant to be taken in so serious a manner. So unwad them panties. As for Ronnie Raygun, he was married (to that controlling old crone, Nancy) when elected to the Presidency. So, no, your memory does not serve -- iron them wrinkles outcha gray matter. As for accusing me of being partisan, well...what I mean to say is...it depends on what you mean by "partisan." Are you operating under the Texan definition of that word (which translates as, "party on them sands down Corpus Christi way") or are you using the more vulgar japanese/american definition, which is used to identify any free and easy (and I DO mean easy) sort of person like myself who can be counted on for a good time? Let's be clear about these words before we use them (man, now I'm sounding like another President...you know his name, it's...I can't recall...great! Now I've come down with Reaganitis). Out here (before I contract something Nixonian), DTS.
I hardly think asking the president whether or not the bump and grind was going on down the hall from him is an appropriate question. To deride Clinton for hemming and hawing at such a question is not only pointless, but useless. When we as a society find it so effing difficult to talk plainly about sex, how can we expect. . . no, downright demand that our leaders do what we collectively cannot do.
---Peter
furor scribendi
DTS: I don't know what your problem is, but I was just answering the post. Geez-us. I could give a rat's ass less as to who did what to who when and why and what. Is is a FACT that we did have a divorced man for president. That was Ronald Reagan. And, though a few years have passed since he was president, if memory serves, there was great rumblings in the so-called objective news media about whether or not he--Reagan--should be president because, in fact, he was divorced.
As to Clinton, he never answers a question straight. For example, he was asked earlier today about the reports that people were going at it in the bathroom off--I believe, I could be wrong--the Oval Office following the New Year's celebrations. Did he know about this gang banging, this orgy activity, and what did he do? He did not answer 'yes' or 'no'. He blathered on for at least five minutes about it. Come on. If someone asked a question, answer the GODDAMN thing, regardless of who you are, straight forward.
Now. As to him doing things in the face of the Republican Congress, did you hear that he now wants to give the Middle Class a tax cut. But (yes, there is a 'but') only IF there is a surplus. It is the same damn shit he pulled last year, and it was shot down, properly, because it was plain crap.
Back to my original point: I don't give a goddamn shit toot if a politician is Democrat or Republican. I spoke to the post here. Period. If you want to get partisan, wander on over to one of the message boards where people do nothing all day but blather about this and that crap shit some politico cobbled up.
Here, however, I prefer Harlan Ellison. (Which may explain the domain name, but what do *I* know?) I am off to check the web sites for the not-so local web sites for bookstores that might actually have the latest from Mr. E. so I can FACTUALLY converse on the topic.
Geez.
And, yes. I am full of shit. Literally. Moments ago I hadda flush three times because I ate waaaay too much beef log and salsa over the holiday.
Until next time. . .
JIM: I have to agree with Barney (and your followup did nothing to disabuse me of this notion): you're more full of shit than a Christmas turkey! (That's an old Texas saying that I love to pull out now and then). Sure Clinton has disembled when asked about personal issues (whether they took place in a private house or the white house) or political blunders he has made over the past two terms (the "hunt" for a drug lord in Africa, in which several military men died needlessly, comes immediately to mind), but in general, when asked a direct question about domestic or foreign affairs, Clinton has been the most knowledgeable, clear-speaking President since Jimmy Carter (and I know he wasn't one of our greatest, but he did speak clearly and honestly). Those that came in between (Ronnie Ray-gun and Bush-lite) either ignored questions, pretended not to be able to hear them, or answered in staccato, nonsense-riddled phrases that made less sense the a mortgage contract. I'm not saying Clinton has been one of our greatest Presidents, but everything Barney pointed out is true -- the guy has done a great deal in his two terms (even with the double albatross of a largely Republican Congress and Senate -- most of whom spent their terms trying to slam Bill or roll back the rights we've gained in the past 200 plus years). And, by the way, I'm sure you know Barney was talking about an "actively" divorced man -- not the hypocrites like Raygun, Gingrich, and others of their ilk who talk out of both sides of their mouths. (whew) Ya see what you started? Couldn't let well enough alone, could ya? Had ta do it, din't ya? Now there's gonna be fightin'. Here. On th' board (god, help, me, I've come down with Bush-mouth!) Out here, DTS.
Well, take my comments as you will. Until such time that Mr. Wonderful actually overturns the First Amendment I can say what I want (stupid or otherwise).
Incidentally, we have had a divorced man for president. You may have heard of this fellow named "Reagan"? Nancy is his second wife.
As to Clinton speaking in clear sentences, um. . . when was this? Last time I listened to the mouth that bored he didn't actually given a straight answer. If fact, I can't recall a time he actually answered a question without a rambling, incoherent effort.
On another note, I have heard about Mr. E's piece, but have yet to lay hands locally on it. B & N keeps hiding his books, so the odds of this showing up any time soon ain't likely.
Until next time. . .
Jim
*** Jim *** While I normally enjoy your input I guess I will take exception to that one. The fact that Clinton will be the president until the inauguration next year makes this whole which-year-is-properly-the-millennium issue sort of moot. Of course, unless your planting and harvesting it all seems pretty arbitrary to me and I'm sure all the Muslims who check in here care even less. If your El Presidente remark is supposed to convince me that Clinton is some sort of dictator, well, I suggest some world travel might disabuse you of that notion.
While I wish we lived in a political climate where an estranged or divorced man could be President in this country, I suspect that isn't going to happen any time soon. As was pointed out in last weeks Doonesbury strip, in this country you have to have that "arm candy". It's sad really.
Do I care that Clinton took advantage of his position to screw interns? Nope. But I am glad that we are not involved in a land war in Europe or Asia. I am glad the world economy is getting bailed out when needed. I am glad we had 5 million new housing starts in this country last year. I am glad peacetime unemployment and inflation are at all time lows and that the near term future looks particularly rosey.
And finally, sexual indiscretions aside, I have particularly enjoyed listening to a president for eight years, who, when not being forced to answer wick-dipping questions, speaks in whole sentences and paragraphs. Who, when asked a foreign policy or economics question, doesn't fumble and [almost] never dissembles, but rather, hits the ball out of the park like Sosa almost every damned time. After 12 years of Reagan/Bush and the hate filled years of Nixon/Agnew it has been a luxury. Why I remember back in the 1900's we had to...
So, Harlan publishes a big assed story in Amazing #600 and nobody wants to talk about it? Well, I read it but I won't go first unless somebody asks. Later folks. Happy double ought. Barney
Knowing full well I am about to bring the shit train raining down, oh well: Why short-change the century (or millennium) a year? So ol Billy Blythe, whorefucker dude, el Presidente, can have a legacy.
What?
Yes. Even though his presidency does not end for another year(ish), if he can go down in history books as ushering in the dawn of a new age, well, that will erase all his wrong-doings previously. (I know it sounds demented, but think about it. How else to explain Dan Blather and Peter 'the flaming prick up my ass' Jennings espousing this is the start of the new one?
Until next time. . .
Peter,
That might explain some vague, irrational basis for the "debate" but is, in point of fact, wrong.
The 1900's are now over. That is true.
But the 20th century, as in the 20th period of 100 years, A.D. is not over yet.
And, yes, the calendar is arbitrary and the sun, earth, moon and stars don't give a damn what year we call it and half the world doesn't care that the West calls it the year 2000 but it's still incorrect to label this the 21st century of the Gregorian calendar.
I don't necessarily care what most people think about it but when some shameless media whore like Peter Jennings repeatedly refers to it as a new millennium, you have to wonder just how much these news reporters care about facts. Jennings knows damn well it's not a new millennium. But to support all the advertising dollars thrown at the faux millennium, he is willing to go on camera and repeatedly report a falsehood.
Sure, it's a minor and harmless one but how many other things are he and his colleagues willing to lie about just to grab ratings?
-chris
It's really quite simple.
A century is a period of a hundred years. The current calendar we use started on year 1 (January 1st, 0001). There was no year 0. Therefore the first century was years 1-100, the second century was years 101-200, etc., etc.
Likewise, a millenium being a period of 1000 years, the first millenium was years 1-1000 and the second years 1001-2000. The third millenium will start Jan 1, 2001.
Since we're talking about these terms as defined by our current calendar, it's pointless to argue about what we "consider" to be a century or millenium, or to argue about either being defined as the distance from a certain event.
Peter and Chris are both right.
The calander is a completely arbitrary system. We commonly mistake its similarity with the set of ordinal numbers as equivalence...
I had often debated folk who came to me and said it was the start of the new millennium. I never convinced them of their error, and they never convinced me of mine... So it's a stalemate.
Businesses and the media will take the "uncertainty" of the fact to hype "The Millennium" throughout 2000 and into 2001. I settled on saying: "2000, Gateway to the New Millennium" - It walks that sliver of a line between both camps and doesn't offend either. (It also makes for a nifty slogan to engrave on things in my real job...)
Actually, the debate stems from the fact that the popular definition of the century and the actual definition of the century are seperated by a shift of one year. Most people don't give a hairy rat's backside that the Gregorian calendar starts on one.
Here is the logic: if 10 is the beginning of the teens and not the end of the single digits then 2000 must be the beginning of the twenty-first century, and not the end of the twentieth.
Yeah, it's lofty logic, but it is what propels this debate. You know what I say? It doesn't matter. That's what I say.
---Peter
furor scribendi
There's no need for debate of any kind. The century and the millennium don't end on the Gregorian calendar until Dec 31, 2000.
This is a simple statement of fact. There was no year 0. Therefore the first century was 1-100 and the first millennium was 1-1000.
Of course, you can always argue that they might have gotten the years wrong anyway and Herod wasn't king in 1 A.D. so that means Jesus would have been born (had he actually been born) around 4-7 B.C.
But that's irrelevant. The Gregorian calendar is what we use and we are now in the final year of the second millennium A.D.
Hope it's a good one.
I'm having a hard time wrapping my mind around this: 01/01/00. How funny looking is that? Can't be a real date, but it is.
The St. Louis Post Dispatch ran letters to the editor from the year 1900 debating the actual start of the twentieth century. Everyone had a theory that could be proven with a watch or a calendar.
The mayor of St. Charles, Missouri is planning a millenium celebration for Dec. 31, 2000. I have to agree that since we don't count a year zero, this is the last year of the century.
I guess I'll really be annoyed at the end of the year, I just know that the media will be hyping the "real" end of the millenium. Shameless double-dipping is what I expect.
Time now to take a dump in the punchbowl of knowledge we all drink from: Is this, as the news media says, the start of the new century/millennium or not? Thoughts?
Until next time. . .
Awright. Now that it is officially the year 2000, I'd like to look back at a science fiction convention (as in custom, not gathering) that I am glad has not yet come to pass. I'm of course talking about the airborn or hover-car. Let us face it, most drivers nowadays have trouble negotiating an XY grid, let alone what they would do should they ever gain the possibility of vertical lift. Could you imagine that terrified old lady who stops at an onramp, cars zooming by at 65 to 90 miles per hour, and waits for a space to clear so she can make her way from 0 to 45 in 3.2 minutes, having to make that maneuver along a Z vector? Or howabout the weavers who think it is their inalienable right to slide across as many highway lanes as they can at 105 mph. Given that they bounce across a highway like a large mechanical version of pong, think of the fun they would have given the option of not only arcing around those slowpokes who drive 85, but over them as well? Let us be thankful for small favors.
---Peter (it's the year too thowsand. yippeeee)
Furor Scribendi
Time now for a shameless self-plug. Head on over to this site:
www.thinkingrockpress.com
Find 'Is That A Fact'
Click on the 'more. . .'
And enjoy.
Also, there is a new humor piece up under the 'Essays' on age.
Until next time. . .
Jim
Powells is also online at www.powells.com. I was in Portland this summer, and was quite pleased at the extensiveness of their stock. I also loved their quality used-book room (where I was able to salivate over a first edition of "Huckleberry Finn." Lovely store, founded right here in Chicago.
What?!? Rick's thingie is missing? Quick! Check under the couch cushions! It can't have gotten far!
Unless. . . it really IS prehensile.
Until next time. . .
Peter-Thanks for the recommendation.
There is a large bookstore in Portland called Powell's. It has a great selection on every topic you could think of, but I have one small problem with it-ALL of Harlan's books are in the science fiction section. I waited for months for the media section of the store to let me know when The Glass Teat was in, and it had been in the science fiction section all the time. If I didn't already have all his fiction, I might have looked there!
I would, without any doubt, without an iota of hesitation, without even a scintilla of a second thought, recommend the Amber series to any and all. I read Nine Princes when I was ten and have never turned back since. In fact, I reread the series a year or so ago and found that I enjoyed it even more that I was able to catch all of the little things my underdeveloped ten year old mind had missed, least of all was a neat little cameo by the author himself. Getting the series in one fell swoop sounds like a bargain, especially since I had to go used book shopping to find the books I had previously read on library loan.
So, yes, it sounds like a very good deal.
---Peter
Furor Scribendi
Jim,
Glad I'm not the only one who misses Rick's thingie. ;-> I just figured with his family situation and the holidays we wouldn't be seeing much till next year.
Peg
Just finished listening to both Mars and Return to Mars, narrated by HE. Maybe another Audie?? Anyway, did Ben Bova write a novel after RTM as part of a trilogy as the story remains incomplete. Also, Zelazny's Amber novels were released as one paperbook. Does anyone recommend this?
An amazing occurrence that begs to be shared...
So, I'm out and about last Friday at a B&N bookstore, in search of a requested copy of "Tuesdays With Morrie," and while there, I'm perusing the periodicals. A clerk asks if there's anything he can help me find, so I tell him I'm looking for "Amazing Stories #600" which features a new novella by Harlan Ellison and ..
"Harlan Ellison? Really? Let me check the list and see if that's in, because I've got to get a copy of that!"
Can you imagine my shock and disbelief to actually find someone at a bookstore (which is part of a national chain) who has not only heard of Harlan, but is also familiar with his work, Mr Wyatt's website and had nothing but good things to say about both? Of course, it didn't hurt that he was old enough to remember that there was actually music prior to David Lee Roth and Van Halen going there separate ways. But still, a pleasant surprise.
And to all you fans of HimsElf, have a great new year's!
Here's a question that perhaps I shouldn't ask: What has come of Rick's Daily Thingie? I rather miss it.
Until next time. . .
Jim
Thanks. I made up La Nina and Rosehill. For some of the others I re-arranged what the program gave me so it made more sense. But most of them are straight out. It's an online program, called "Anagram Genius." It's a free website.
Pretty cool, MIKE. "All halo sinner": if that one's from the program, it's pretty appropriately ironic that it turned out to be a computer that described HE so well. -- billY d!
Merry Christmas, Happy Hannukah, Happy Kwanzaa, or whichever over-commercialized holiday you prefer. Or if you're like me, Happy Nothing. Here's some anagrams of Harlan Ellison. Some I made up, and some (most) I got from a program that does them:
Or Hell's La Nina.
I shall learn on.
Alan N. Rosehill.
All halo sinner.
Saner hall lion.
Learn on his all.
All alien horns.
Hello in a snarl.
Nail lash loner.
Linear hall son.
Hills ran alone.
He'll nail arson.
An ill, lone rash.
Seal ran on hill.
Her snail on all.
Ol' snarl inhale.
Merry Christmas!
Joe: Like I said, I didn't really care if I got the gig or not. I did it to get the monkey in the laurels off my back. Besides, since it was printed in big block letters on the front of the test booklets and repeated ad nauseum on the test sheet itself: YOUR SCORES WILL REMAIN CONFIDENTIAL, I have to wonder why anyone would know or how. Oh, sure, I could be a real bagger, get a copy of my test scores, have 'em blown up at Kinko's to something like 11 by 14 (feet, that is), laminate the sucker, and slap on my office wall and make every poor slob who passed by look at it, and be impressed, or face a certain swirly in my private toilet if they weren't.
The point is, education in this country is dying by inches because instead of employing them that can we lean toward them who can answer only one question on the test: Are you Politically Correct? (Please answer using a nifty PC Crayola color like Teal Blue.)
Which brings me to Harlan Ellison (who would beat anyone to a bloody pulp who said he was PC): What a prof he would make, eh?
Until next time. . .
Jim