robochrist wrote:Robert, whatever world or reality you live in, you are known to frame arguments through the worst case of bullshit tunnel vision I've ever seen. You cherry pick then take that handful and apply it to the norm. No: Conspiracy freaks do not "overlap" with the left as much as you've convinced yourself in your vacuum-sealed bubble. In fact, in my experience, it's right-wingers who think the government set it up. Libertarian types to be specific. I could confidently content that the majority of 9/11 conspiracy buffs, known as "Truthers", are predominanty Libertarian.
Rob, I'm fully aware that not everyone, or even most, on the left is a conspiracy nut, It's just that I run into so many
here in New York! Especially the Upper West Side, which I sometimes think should be renamed the Upper West Gaz Strip. Yes, there are conspiracy nuts among all political persuasions, but the Bush years generated a huge new, fetid crop of them. Just the other day a Columbia grad student was yapping in my year nonstop about how 9/11 was completely masterminded by Dick Cheney, without even Bush's knowledge, and that nobody knew all the details but him -- i.e, the grad student. And this is Columbia. And this guy's considered to be brilliant in his field. (Which, thank god for all of us, is physics, not political science.)
re you certain, first of all, that you quoted the people you listed IN CONTEXT? Although, no question, there IS an Islamist threat, the U.S. effectively produced that threat over a course of decades through blowback. Policies in the Middle East, puppet governments like the Shaw, and, of course, the CIA training Bin Laden throughout the 1980s as it did with Hussein and Panama's Noriega. The United States has a history of creating a toxic seedbed of discontent. Are you sure none of the people you listed weren't trying to make this point? Lots of lefties DO; MOST, actually.
In context? I read their entire damned books! But if I quoted them at that length here, I'd be accused of mere "cutting-and-pasting." I read Chomsky's dreadful (bestselling) book "9-11," and I read all the articles in The Nation, and Howard Zinn's book on terror, and Mailer's "Why Are We in Iraq?" and Vidal's "Perpetual War for Perpetual Peace." HAVE YOU??
Essentially, what you're saying --- to put the nicest construction on it -- is that America "had it coming." Since you -- and the virtually the entire left -- believes that America is responsible for absolutely everything that has been bad in the world for the past 100 years (at least), any attack on us from anywhere in the world is justified. And the last Gore Vidal, in his last novel, claimed that America "had it coming" when the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor. We deserved it, according to him. And like a true conspiracy nut, he also claimed that FDR not only knew about it in advance, but provoked the Japanese to make them do it. This is "truther" crap all over again. The left wept buckets of tears when Vidal passed away a few years ago; that's appropriate for someone who's died. But they also acclaimed him as "a great voice of truth and reason" in our mendacious, right-wing-dominated cultural landscape. Sorry, but I beg to differ.