Pavilion Digest: August 2008

A plethora of perplexing pavilion posts. The Pavilion Annex thread, the Pavilion Discussion thread, and monthly digests of all messages from the Pavilion.

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Pavilion Digest: August 2008

Postby admin » Thu Jul 31, 2008 10:24 pm

The following posts contain Art Deco Dining Pavilion messages for the month of August 2008.

alexander

Postby alexander » Thu Jul 31, 2008 10:24 pm

Name: alexander
Source: unca20080913.htm
Unca Harlan : Pass on that many many people are congratulating Mr. Takei on his nuptials. Myself included.

On Gay Marriage, what people fail to realize is that the request is for the CIVIL rights that go along with. It has no control over the RELIGIOUS ceremony. Catholics won't be forced to do homosexual weddings, same as they aren't forced to marry divorcees. And there are church's that, TODAY, RIGHT NOW, are marrying two men or two women in a religious ceremony. they just don't get any of the government rights. Gay marriage exists, it is here, and no law can stop it.

As for Orson Scott Card, my first book of his was Songbird, read at the age of 11. His concept of Control saved my sanity for the several months it took me to read the Discarded, and Adrift off the Islets of Langerhans, the stories that convinced me NOT to kill myself as a child. Because of that, i did cut him some slack a few years ago, but at this time, my amateur psychology says that the man is gay or bi, and doing his best to deny it by railing against it as loud as he can. Also, he's Mormon. He doesnt have room to talk about groups trying to change the definition of marriage...

ON a funner note, I am now working for the HRC, or Human Rights Campaign, as a god forsaken door knocker (i hate those people. whoops), gathering cold hard cash to help pass the emploment nondescrimination act. Did you know that in 33 states, it is LEGAL to fire someone for the simple reason of, " I found out they were gay". www.hrc.org if you are interested in ways of contacting your senator and getting this passed. It may get vetoed by the Shrub, but theres always next year, and having had it pass this year will make next easier.

KOS
Posts: 191
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All Around The Horn

Postby KOS » Thu Jul 31, 2008 10:57 pm

Name: KOS
Source: unca20080913.htm
Impudence Department: Strikes me as more than a little "impudent" to think that the people who help pay for the school (the parents) don't have the absolute right to bore the pants off a teacher they meet with, even one convinced he is smarter and wiser than they are. Kids are not owned by parents or teachers, but the parents do have the final say, like it or not. Deal with it.

L'Affaire Card: I feel like a bombastic jackass for calling him a hack/creep. I just don't care for most of his writing that I have tried, but he's a genuine wordsmith. He's also done good by Harlan (and a few others I know of). I think his politics on this subject are wrong. Best leave it there, methinks for myself.

I do bombast regularly, but not well.

Frank, do I gather you are not an atheist? Interesting... What?! No, no. Nothing. Really.

MM: I was at USC Cinema from spring 1983 to somewhere in the spting of 1984 when money and interest/desire fell apart after three semesters. I became a semi-pro poker player in Gardena at that time (went broke, after a heck of a run. Walked out of a casino with two quarters in my pocket and no other money in the world. In six months I had it all back, more or less. Heck of a story. Someday I'll write it.)

People I knew: Tim Kring (Heroes) was the TA in my first production class. It was taught by the temporary department chair, whose name escapes me but was a great fellow who looked (to me anyway) exactly like Captain Kangaroo and was buddies with George Lucas. Other names I recall: Marsha Kinder, whose lectures were like Greek to me. Rick Jewell whose book and class on RKO history still make me smile in memory. Sam Kaufman, Cynthia Cohen, Tim Amyx were in my classes that I recall. I was a Critical Studies student, not Production. I took as many production classes as I could, but oddly never took ANY writing classes. So naturally I became a writer. Well, it seems natural to me.

Cogent arguments: Card sort of went partially down one of them, but didn't get there: That when it comes to something as central to human society as marriage and the family, we ought to be very careful about major changes without having a really large majority of the members behind it. It's an argument based on pragmatism, not morality, so have at it about it being immoral, because it ignores the morality of the norm in question and refers solely to the political effects on civil society of forcing people to change deeply held social norms without their being at least allowed to be convinced and/or have their say whether convinced or not. In other words, be prepared for a rough ridw if you run over enough people's deeply held beliefs, and be very sure you are willing to pay the price, as it might be more than you really want to pay.

It's not an argument I completely buy into, but it does have historical evidence to back it up. Slavery was morally wrong. Was it a good deal to kill around a million or so men in a war ro end it, if it could have been ended in, say, another twenty or thirty years with no violence to speak of?

I am not wise enough to answer that one. It is a cogent question/argument though.

Since someone will accuse me of advocating this, I'm gonna say it now, and let them say what they will: NO, I do not believe the above is a convincing argument. Some people might though, and they are not idiots for doing so. Hubris cuts both ways. I strive for humility. Sometimes I get there.

By the way, did anyone else have the response I did the other day when the talking heads on TV and Radidio were opining about the Damn Democrats in Congress pasaing a non-binding resolution officially apologizing for slavery?

"Dang, we kidnap three, four million people from another continent, kill a bunch of them just getting them here in chains, then make them work their whole lives for nothing but a bowl of corn mush and maybe some watermelon at the holidays, make it illegal for them to learn to read or write, set dogs to them when they try to run away, kill a bunch of them for whatever reason pretty much we felt like, profit mightily from the sweat of their brows, do the exact same thing to their kids, their grandkids and keep on doing it on down the line for neat on about 250 years, and then, THEN (Wait For It!) all we gotta do is APOLOGIZE?!

Whee-Doggy, get me the agebt that done negotiated THAT deal!

Seriously, an apology is something to whine about, on the part of those that profited from slavery, I mean? Really?

Where's George Carlin when we REALLY need him?

KOS
t




Jim Argendeli

Postby Jim Argendeli » Fri Aug 01, 2008 12:42 am

Name: Jim Argendeli
Source: unca20080913.htm
Harlan and Susan,

Looking forward to seeing both of you at Dante's or some other fine establishment. It is the company that counts!

Have fun on your Tuesday procedure, Harlan. Cindy's Dad has a procedure two days after you and Cindy's Mom is going through treatment today.

Keep well.

Jim

Janisse A. Russell

Thoughts

Postby Janisse A. Russell » Fri Aug 01, 2008 2:30 am

Name: Janisse A. Russell
Source: unca20080913.htm
Harlan, I just wanted to let you know that I've been thinking about you and Susan pretty much non-stop since I heard about your upcoming surgery. I wanted to ask you (before I did anything) if you would mind if I actively sent good vibes your way? You see, I'm Wiccan, and I believe that people can affect
the circumstances in their, and other's lives through deep meditation and focus of the will on the outcome. But I also believe that you ask the person affected first. It's only polite to do so.

The first and only time that I've been able to see you in person, was in Seattle in, I believe, 1974. You read "Hitler Painted Roses" to us. I had begun reading your work a little before that, so this post seems to me that it's been a long time coming. I wanted you to know that I've cared for you not only as an author, but I care about you and Susan as people, too. Sorry if this sounds "sappy", but deal with it. Get better, damn it. And if you're ever up here in Spokane, let me know, and you won't have to eat restaurant food. I'll cook for you and Susan.

Jim Ward

on slippery slopes

Postby Jim Ward » Fri Aug 01, 2008 3:54 am

Name: Jim Ward
Source: unca20080913.htm
It seems to me most any issue worth tackling is a slippery slope (but not every slippery slope is worth tackling). Civil rights, school integration, getting us to the moon, wars, drug laws, gun laws, women's rights, end-of-life issues, suicide, gay rights, environmental laws, labor laws, property rights...all slippery slopes. Funny how some of these slippery slopes, like war, domestic surveillance and torture have been scrambled down so mindlessly these days.

And and I don't think I could think of extending the right to marry so same-sex couples any other way. The metaphor of that slippery place is used for one reason - to invoke fear. And fear, as we know, is the mind killer.

The wacky right has trotted out the ridiculous, children and animals, as the final landing on the slope. But their real fear is probably well-founded -- that this right to marry might lead to further protections and rights for these couples. In adoption, the workplace, health care, social security, serving in the military, inheritance... Yeah, we might see that in our lifetimes; aided and abetted by the right to marry. Another issue trotted out is multiple partners (kinda ironic, in the case of Card, huh?). I don't have a well-formed opinion on that one, but I don't fear the debate, either.

It all come down to fear. Years ago it was that gays recruit children (anyone else old enough to remember that one?). Now it's fear of the different. It's in our nature. And is there another aspect of our natures more deserving of being left behind us, as we slide along?

Jim Ward

on slippery slopes

Postby Jim Ward » Fri Aug 01, 2008 4:03 am

Name: Jim Ward
Source: unca20080913.htm
It seems to me most any issue worth tackling is a slippery slope (but not every slippery slope is worth tackling). Civil rights, school integration, getting us to the moon, wars, drug laws, gun laws, women's rights, end-of-life issues, suicide, gay rights, environmental laws, labor laws, property rights...all slippery slopes. Funny how some of these slippery slopes, like war, domestic surveillance and torture have been scrambled down so mindlessly these days.

And and I don't think I could think of extending the right to marry so same-sex couples any other way. The metaphor of that slippery place is used for one reason - to invoke fear. And fear, as we know, is the mind killer.

The wacky right has trotted out the ridiculous, children and animals, as the final landing on the slope. But their real fear is probably well-founded -- that this right to marry might lead to further protections and rights for these couples. In adoption, the workplace, health care, social security, serving in the military, inheritance... Yeah, we might see that in our lifetimes; aided and abetted by the right to marry. Another issue trotted out is multiple partners (kinda ironic, in the case of Card, huh?). I don't have a well-formed opinion on that one, but I don't fear the debate, either.

It all come down to fear. Years ago it was that gays recruit children (anyone else old enough to remember that one?). Now it's fear of the different. It's in our nature. And is there another aspect of our natures more deserving of being left behind us, as we slide along?

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FinderDoug
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Postby FinderDoug » Fri Aug 01, 2008 4:36 am

Name: FinderDoug
Source: unca20080913.htm
Harlan and Susan - Before I disappear into the rail tunnels under Manhattan (literally, in about three minutes), best wishes for smooth sailing on Tuesday and a speedy recovery.

Kell Brown

Postby Kell Brown » Fri Aug 01, 2008 5:43 am

Name: Kell Brown
Source: unca20080913.htm

Good luck on Tuesday.

I'm sending in a money order for the HC edition of The Essential Ellison and I want it signed. Don't die and you can have my money.

Seriously, good luck, get well.



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Postby Moderator » Fri Aug 01, 2008 5:59 am

Name: Steve Barber
Source: unca20080913.htm

HARLAN - I would wish you the best of luck for Tuesday, but luck is not what you need. Seems like you've got some ace people working on you, but the nerves sometimes outweigh the reassurance. Make them give you the good drugs. Given what you've created when stone cold sober, what your mind dreams up while on vicodine must truly be Ellison's Wonderland.

SUSAN - You've actually got the hard part here. I know from Cris' comments that sitting in the waiting room is no bed of roses, particularly when the procedure runs long (which it inevitably does because the doctors are only rarely able to start on time). Take a friend or thoroughly engaging book. And shots of tequila for the screaming kids in the waiting room.
_____________________________________

KOS - If you were in the school of cinema you might also have met/known John Knoll. He would have been an upper classman at that point, and has gone on to become a major FX guru at ILM.
_____________________________________

Today is my final day of employment (for the time being). Weird feeling. I've had reassuring interest from companies who have logos resembling a check mark and a blue marble, so I'm really not concerned about the long term. (Heading for Vegas Tuesday with some friends from Perth, if that's an indication of my worry quotient.)

But it's weird. Maybe I'll write that book I've always wanted to write.

(Okay, stop laughing.)

Weird.



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Barney Dannelke
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The Man With Nine Bypasses*

Postby Barney Dannelke » Fri Aug 01, 2008 7:37 am

Name: Barney Dannelke
Source: unca20080913.htm
*Restent Harlequin was brilliant.

Anyways, I open up the Art Deco Dining Pavilion Page and the first thing I see is the word "EReads" which I automatically misread as "E.R.Reads" which my brain associates with "E.R." which makes my stupid stupid brain think "Oh crackers, what now?" All of this mind you in the microsecond before I goggle out further and take in the entire sentence. So, I dunno, whew.

Harlan, I just wanted you to know that my heart is exploding with happy thoughts and well wishes for you and your procedure(s) on Tuesday.

Hey, Doug! Come here. I think that last paragraph needs some work or a rewrite. It just seems sort of... I can't put my finger on it.

Big, manly, shaken from side to side AND up and down Tor Johnson style hugs from - Barney

Troublemakers, PA.

Susan Ellison
Posts: 68
Joined: Sat May 26, 2012 6:20 pm

Postby Susan Ellison » Fri Aug 01, 2008 8:16 am

Name: SUSAN ELLISON
Source: unca20080913.htm
Dennis: Can't seem to pull up your post but...your book and HERC membership order arrived today. Will go out today. A few extra goodies will be enclosed to thank you for your patience.

All best--Susan

john zeock
Posts: 167
Joined: Sat May 26, 2012 6:30 pm

nyt

Postby john zeock » Fri Aug 01, 2008 10:11 am

Name: John Zeock
Source: unca20080913.htm
Harlan- the Times will go out Saturday when I get to the post office. Let me know if there's anything I can do for you or Susan out here in Conshohocken. As far as next week goes I'm sending good thoughts, good wishes and prayers. Let's cover ALL the bases. Love to you both, John

Adam-Troy
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Broken Link

Postby Adam-Troy » Fri Aug 01, 2008 10:19 am

Name: Adam-Troy Castro
Source: unca20080913.htm
Hey, Rick: the link toEReads.com at the top of the page does not work. The link to Harlan's books in particular does.

Harlan: I've been directed to call you to ask a question, but will under the circumstances let it go until after your more pressing concerns are dealt with. Judi was gonna call you to wish you the best, but we will refrain from that as well. Just consider it done in our hearts.

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FrankChurch
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Postby FrankChurch » Fri Aug 01, 2008 10:41 am

Name: Frank Church
Source: unca20080913.htm
In two fucking days Obama goes from an eight point lead in Gallup to a tie with Goddamn McCain. Eight points in two days. This country doesn't deserve the vote.

I'm worried as fuck.

Truly frightened.

----------------

Harlan, we understand.

Much luck. In love always.


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