Pavilion Digest: April 2006

A plethora of perplexing pavilion posts. The Pavilion Annex thread, the Pavilion Discussion thread, and monthly digests of all messages from the Pavilion.

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Chuck Messer
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Postby Chuck Messer » Wed Apr 26, 2006 9:28 pm

Name: Chuck Messer
Source: unca20060606.htm
I believe Disney used footage they filmed of Bela Lugosi as the pattern for the Satan figure in the Night on Bald Mountain sequence in FANTASIA. If you watch it, the devil does look and move like Lugosi.


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Bud Webster
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Postby Bud Webster » Wed Apr 26, 2006 11:12 pm

Name: Bud Webster
Source: unca20060606.htm
_Two Views of Wonder_ was the anthology Tom Scortia and Quinn Yarbro assembled in 1973 for Ballantine. I've spoken briefly to her, and hope to reach Pam Sargent and maybe Joe Gores (if I can find contact info for him).

This is just to remind you of the book; I'll call you about it after the Nebs. Hope you and Susan have a good time, have a mug of Bosco on me. AND some Hydrox. Just send me the bill.

Elijah Newton

If this conversation were an Ellison title, it might be...

Postby Elijah Newton » Thu Apr 27, 2006 1:30 am

Name: Elijah Newton
Source: unca20060606.htm
"Rotoscoping Ain't Nothing but Motion-Capture Misspelled"
(not brilliant, but it popped inexplicably to mind while changing a diaper at 3:00am)

For Steve B's inquiring mind:
Wizards DVD is for sale on ... ance&n=130


Postby Andrew » Thu Apr 27, 2006 5:08 am

Name: Andrew
Source: unca20060606.htm

Actually, Disney's use of rotoscoping on SNOW WHITE was a little more extensive than that ( After having seen some of the reference footage it's hard for me believe that none of the footage was traced. SNOW WHITE is still a stunning piece of work and knowing that they needed to 'scope some of the scenes does not, in my opinion, take anything away from the achievement.

Of course my point was that I thought this thread was more of an "I hate Bakshi" kind of response rather than an argument against rotoscoping. True, when used improperly, rotoscoping is a "cheat" that looks awful. On the other hand, when used properly it is a valid technique that allows the animator to do things that would be too difficult or time consuming otherwise.

Kevin Avery

Dorothy Parker, Lillian Hellman, and the NAACP

Postby Kevin Avery » Thu Apr 27, 2006 5:23 am

Name: Kevin Avery
Source: unca20060606.htm
Harlan, given your history with Dorothy Parker, you might find this article of interest. An article in BOOKFORUM, "Estate of Mind," written by Marion Meade, is a fascinating look at Parker's failed friendship with Lillian Hellman, and what happened after Parker died and left her estate to Martin Luther King Jr. and the NAACP. Fascinating stuff. The article is available online at BOOKFORUM's website:

Also, if you're interested, Scott Simon interviewed Meade about the piece on NPR's WEEKEND EDITION SATURDAY. You can hear the interview at: ... Id=5357079


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Site Admin
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Rotoscoped Amazons

Postby Moderator » Thu Apr 27, 2006 6:20 am

Name: Steve Barber
Source: unca20060606.htm
Elijah - Thank you for that. Now all I need do is keep my wife from opening the credit card statement, since I'll have to order more than just the single dvd (*cough, cough*) -- to qualify for the free shipping of course.

Andrew - The thread began as a commentary on rotoscoping. Where it veered off course is when I mentioned that I felt Bakshi's LoTR was an example of how it can be done badly. Several posters then concluded that I was bashing Bakshi, not his film. At that point everyone joined in and the fun began. (Good fun, not the nasty troll-trashing variety.)

Now, I happen to feel that rotoscoping has never been entirely satisfactory to me, but I recognize it has fans and has been used for good as well as for evil. I also recognize that there are some damn fine examples of it being used to enhance and not detract from animated films. And, as Harlan pointed out hizzownseff, even the really bad ones can be fun to watch with a piled-high bowl of popcorn and fizzy drink of your choice.

But you guys have got to admit that there are also many examples that several shots of tequila couldn't make look right.

Side note to Rob -- Still haven't found that book, I think it may be consigned to a box in the garage. That said, I stand by Disney having rotoscoped in addition to using the live action footage as a guide. In the event I'm wrong, I have a nice set of crayolas on the desk.

By the way, a very belated congrats to Doug on his sale. (We have a tradition amongst my group of friends that the person who made the last sale [or got the last paying gig as an actor/singer, etc] buys the pizza.) Good job!

Ribert Morales

Jane Jacobs, R.I.P.

Postby Ribert Morales » Thu Apr 27, 2006 8:10 am

Name: Ribert Morales
Source: unca20060606.htm
Since Harlan and I were chatting about her just a few weeks ago, I'd like to note the passing of this true American heroine. Here's the New York Times obit:

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Robert Morales
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Postby Robert Morales » Thu Apr 27, 2006 8:34 am

Name: Robert Morales
Source: unca20060606.htm
"Ribert," of course, is how I mispronounce my name in French.

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Harlan Ellison
Harlan Fucking Ellison
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Postby Harlan Ellison » Thu Apr 27, 2006 8:57 am

Source: unca20060606.htm
So Christopher Priest (the UK novelist, not the US comics scripter) will be in attenance at LACon. My, my, my, ain't that interesting. Mnnn, INteresting. My, my.


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Harlan Ellison
Harlan Fucking Ellison
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Postby Harlan Ellison » Thu Apr 27, 2006 8:58 am

Source: unca20060606.htm
So Christopher Priest (the UK novelist, not the US comics scripter) will be in attendance at LACon. My, my, my, ain't that interesting. Mnnn, INteresting. My, my.


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Postby remarck » Thu Apr 27, 2006 9:50 am

Name: Keith Cramer
Source: unca20060606.htm
HE didn't sign it yr pal. HE DIDN'T SIGN IT YR PAL!!!!!!


Mark Goldberg

Calm down Keith

Postby Mark Goldberg » Thu Apr 27, 2006 10:24 am

Name: Mark Goldberg
Source: unca20060606.htm
Keith, my friend,

Calm down and take a deep breath. Even though he did not say it, I am sure HE is still your pal

Alan Coil
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Location: Southeast Michigan

Postby Alan Coil » Thu Apr 27, 2006 12:44 pm

Name: Alan Coil
Source: unca20060606.htm
Maybe the Christopher Priest at the convention will be the comic book writer/minister?????

I didn't look at the guest list, so maybe I am wrong.

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Urban Princesses and Dark Priests

Postby paul » Thu Apr 27, 2006 2:11 pm

Name: Paul
Source: unca20060606.htm
No, it's UK Priest, all right. Naturally, no one would do anything to upset the pleasant tenor of LA con, but i still feel like exchanging my family for tickets.

I also enjoy tiptoeing through mine fields and swimming by Three Mile Island.

At the forum page is set up the same as the Ellison Bulletin Board, so everyone can feel at home.
Reports, anecdotes and general tomfoolery by attendees will be expected and appreciated.

I know there are organizations dedicated to urban renewal and all, but where in this apathetic age of social irresponsibility and baby-like, "the world is my birthright, fucker!" do you find the folks like Jane Jacobs? How do you replace the irreplaceable? I don't know if i would enjoy living with all my diverse neighbors in such a close proximity, nor if that is truly more of a crime deterrent and economic kicker, but she was right out there, writing it, doing it. Respect to you, Ms. Jacobs. We'll try to figure something out.

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Postby FrankChurch » Thu Apr 27, 2006 3:01 pm

Name: Frank Church
Source: unca20060606.htm
Dorman, come ere' little pisher, I won't make fun of ya anymore. You just have to promise to be nicer to me in the future. We are both smart guys with lots to say, or at least more to say then the average American, so let's leave it be. You are a cool guy, a little square and mean, but cool. Now shake my hand and lets be friends.


Harlan, don't know if Susan has speakers for her computer, but if you go to this site,, you will find audio to a debate about intellectual property rights that might interest you. Comic artist, Art Spiegelman is on the anti--side; good lefty that he is.

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