Comics. What are they good for?

For the discussion of Movies, Television, Comics, and other existential distractions.

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markabaddon
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Postby markabaddon » Thu Jun 22, 2006 8:29 am

Rob, while a good story is paramount to a movie being accepted, I still say the reason people can accept people with different looks being Batman is because of the mask. Superman does not have that, so it is more difficult to cast actors with a different look in that role. Not impossible, as evidenced by the fact that Nic Cage was on board to play him for a while (pause to involuntarily shudder) but definitely much more difficult for mainstream audiences as the Superman is an iconic image
Governments, if they endure, always tend increasingly toward aristrocratic forms. No gov't in history has been known to evade this pattern. And as the aristocracy develops, gov't tends more and mroe to act exclusively in the interests of the ruling class

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robochrist
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Postby robochrist » Thu Jun 22, 2006 9:15 am

Markabaddon,

Foist off, Nick Cage was one of the most ludicrous prospects for the role anyone came up with. He really wasn't THAT much worse than Daniel Craigs himself - since Demo brought it up (I googled Craigs' image to check).

Haven't you ever seen George Reeves in the old series? Now das manly, see? Yeah, das REAL manly.

Here's the kinda face I'm a yammerin' bout; just paste this whole damn thing inna yer browser n' take a gander at a REAL Superman. Yeah, das da face I'd be a lookin' fer. So damn MANLY I'm ready ta...well, there'll be plenty o'time fer dat later.

Yeah, da point is DIS is da kinda face dat would SELL, see? Look a dat square jaw; dem chisles; dat look a MIGHT. Yeah, DAS Superman:

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl= ... ie%3DUTF-8

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markabaddon
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Postby markabaddon » Thu Jun 22, 2006 10:10 am

rob, I dun seen George Reeves in the old series and do agree he was "manly". Ain't got no problem with Clint Walker, either, he dun look like he could play the part too.

Sorry, gotta stop this shtick, I am starting to write like some of my wife's relatives speak.

Nic Cage would have been a disaster as Kal-El, but it could have worked in an MST3K kinda way. Just imagine all the Leaving Las Vegas or Honeymoon in Vegas jokes Tom Servo, Crow and the gang could have concocted while watching that one.

Is it just me, or would MST3K have a field day with some movies that have been released since it was cancelled. Battlefield Earth, Godzilla, MI:3, would all be prime candidates. Someone needs to launch the Satellite of Love again!
Governments, if they endure, always tend increasingly toward aristrocratic forms. No gov't in history has been known to evade this pattern. And as the aristocracy develops, gov't tends more and mroe to act exclusively in the interests of the ruling class

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David Loftus
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Postby David Loftus » Thu Jun 22, 2006 10:10 am

robochrist wrote:Foist off, Nick Cage was one of the most ludicrous prospects for the role anyone came up with. He really wasn't THAT much worse than Daniel Craigs himself - since Demo brought it up (I googled Craigs' image to check).



Have you seen the trailer for the upcoming Bond film? I saw it over the weekend while waiting for "The Da Vinci Code" to start.

Craig looks good. He won't satisfy the purists and die-hard Connery, Brosnan, or Dalton fans, but I think he'll do for the average moviegoer.
War is, at first, the hope that one will be better off; next, the expectation that the other fellow will be worse off; then, the satisfaction that he isn't any better off; and, finally, the surprise at everyone's being worse off. - Karl Kraus

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robochrist
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Postby robochrist » Thu Jun 22, 2006 10:19 am

Markabaddon,

"Sorry, gotta stop this shtick, I am starting to write like some of my wife's relatives speak."

It IS intoxicating. I've infected lots friends with both "hick" talk AND Jim Crowe "happy black farm hand" talk. They haven't been in touch with me much lately.

I've only seen pics of Craigs as Bond. I just CANNOT buy it.

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markabaddon
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Postby markabaddon » Thu Jun 22, 2006 12:59 pm

Changing subjects completely, I had an odd experience at my comic book shop today. A buddy of mine asked me to see if I could find a copy of Galactica 0, a special preview of a series that sold for only $0.25.

There was only one copy left, and my buddy who works at the store told me that some guys were going around to all the stores in the metro to buy up copies of the comic and were selling them on eBay.

Damn shame some shmucks are keeping this comic out of people's hands, because it is a pretty good one, both story-wise and in the artwork
Governments, if they endure, always tend increasingly toward aristrocratic forms. No gov't in history has been known to evade this pattern. And as the aristocracy develops, gov't tends more and mroe to act exclusively in the interests of the ruling class

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Steve Evil
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Postby Steve Evil » Thu Jun 22, 2006 2:23 pm

I think it's far too early to alter Superman's appearence. Christopher Reeve is still too fresh on people's minds. For me, he simply IS Superman, and no alteration is really possible.

Maybe his suit is just his uniform inside out. . .

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robochrist
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Postby robochrist » Thu Jun 22, 2006 2:35 pm

It all begins with THAT, of course. For all my admiration of Chris Reeve, I've NEVER been able to see him as Superman. The preppy look never sold for me. Not that I ever paid attention to the book, but the way he was ALWAYS drawn, well, that basic look stuck with me...and NEVER was he drawn as a prepped-out lookin' softy.

Douglas Harrison
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Postby Douglas Harrison » Thu Jun 22, 2006 3:25 pm

robochrist wrote:I've only seen pics of Craigs [sic] as Bond. I just CANNOT buy it.


Rob, renting the movie Layer Cake might change your mind.

By the way, I was able to accept Christopher Reeve as Superman, but his Clark Kent--yeesh. Impotence overload. "Too much, Donner, too much!"

D.

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robochrist
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Postby robochrist » Fri Jun 23, 2006 10:26 am

[imghttp://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/8/89/Walker99.jpg/180px-Walker99.jpg[/img][/img]

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Steve Evil
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Postby Steve Evil » Fri Jun 30, 2006 12:57 am

Just sat through a very long Superman documentary. Blatantly an advertisement for the new film, but what the hell, it worked and I'll be going.

I dunno, I was raised on Reeve since I was hatched, before I ever looked at a comic. He'll always be Superman to me.

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markabaddon
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Postby markabaddon » Fri Jun 30, 2006 12:31 pm

This new Superman film is just not moving me, and I cannot say why. I had an opportunity to see it for free through a special sneak preview (I do love the perks of working for a newspaper sometimes) and declined. The story just does not sound interesting to me.

Something that is starting to get me more interested is the comic series 52. Whether or not you like it, you have to respect the ambition in putting out a weekly comic for a full year.

As Adam Troy mentioned in the Pavillion, the series is focusing on some of the more minor characters in the DC Universe. I especially like seeing the interaction between Steel and his niece and how a misunderstanding could lead to terrible consequences for her.

When writers pay attention to details (such as Luthor putting his arm around Steel, which has serious ramifications) and write a coherent story, I am usually hooked.

DC has definitely piqued my interest and I will be following this series closely.

Civil War over in Marvel, on the other hand, seems like a complete wreck. It feels like they are going for shock value over writing anything that makes sense. Peter Parker has spent years keeping a secret identity, to protect not only himself but to keep his loved ones safe from retribution. Then, out of the blue, he decides to unmask at a public news conference without warning his wife and Aunt or getting them to a safe location first? Makes no sense.
Governments, if they endure, always tend increasingly toward aristrocratic forms. No gov't in history has been known to evade this pattern. And as the aristocracy develops, gov't tends more and mroe to act exclusively in the interests of the ruling class

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Civil War #2

Postby Adam-Troy » Mon Jul 03, 2006 9:06 am

My feelings about CIVIL WAR are considerably kinder than yours, especially since I know at least one of your major criticisms to be based on incomplete information. To wit, you wrote:

"Peter Parker has spent years keeping a secret identity, to protect not only himself but to keep his loved ones safe from retribution. Then, out of the blue, he decides to unmask at a public news conference without warning his wife and Aunt or getting them to a safe location first? Makes no sense."

Except that Peter Parker DID warn Aunt May and Mary Jane. The last issue of AMAZING SPIDER-MAN, before the one on the stands now, was *all about* Peter confronting the pair with the decision that had to be made. He wanted to pack his things and flee; Aunt May sternly told him not to do anything of the kind, she wanted her pride in him to be public. Even THEN, he almost fled in the night, hoping that his family would someday forgive him...but she followed up, and told him what he HAD to do. J. Michael Straczynski wrote a hell of an issue, about Peter's agonizing...agonizing that, by the way, comes after YEARS of so many names in the superhero community, the supervillain community, and the government, learning the secret, that the cat was pretty much out of the bag anyway. But no, he didn't make the decision without warning them, or easily.

And, since the pair is currently living WITH THE AVENGERS...it's about as Safe a place as can be said to exist, in the Marvel Universe, right now. So, yeah, it was prepared for.

Tony Stark's actions, and Captain America's, also strike me as squarely in character. I am not entirely sure of Mr. Fantastic's...but that's what we will have to see, as the story unfolds.

The major thing I like about this storyline is that it's a controversy where THERE'S NO CORRECT SOLUTION. This isn't a case where a giant ooga-booga alien like the Beyonder, or the Anti-Monitor, lands on Earth and promises to destroy everything. In that kind of case, there really is only one option for those venerable characters: go fight him. In this case, BOTH alternatives suck. And nobody's completely right or completely wrong. Yeah, the government is making is blatant power grab...but it has to; the New Warriors were irresponsible in the extreme, and people died. Yeah, Peter Parker has made a decision that will cause him any amount of grief...but the alternative was marginally worse. Yeah, Tony Stark is hunting down his friends...but he, too, sees no alternative. I see no happy solution coming out of this, and I don't see Marvel coming up with a magic-wand solution, especially since they've promised that the change in the status quo will persist at LEAST til 2008. I have heard that some of the mainline heroes will leave the country, or go underground, indefinitely. And that, too, makes dramatic sense. Exploring consequences is HOW STORIES ARE TOLD, and thus I find this to be perhaps the only universe-wide-crossover, ever, that really explores who these characters are and what makes them tick.
Coming in 2007: THE SHALLOW END OF THE POOL! Plus THE UNAUTHORIZED HARRY POTTER (Ben Bella Books).

Coming in 2008: EMISSARIES FROM THE DEAD!

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markabaddon
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Postby markabaddon » Mon Jul 03, 2006 10:16 am

Adam-Troy,

Thank you for your response and for clarifying some aspects that seemed out of character for me. When I saw Parker unmasking and they showed Aunt May and MJ watching on television, I assumed it was at their house, rather than at the Avengers mansion. This does emphasize one of the weak points of the series, however, if one needs to read all ancillary books related to the Civil War, then it becomes confusing to a casual or even some avid readers.

I understand your point in regard to there not being any correct solution to this problem and find it fascinating, also, but where I am really having trouble is in having these characters act completely differently than I have understood them over the years.

The New Warriors were morons, unquestionably. They should also be tried as accessories to murder, but that does not excuse the government from making, as you point out "a blatant power grab". It is very obvious that this is being used a pretext to gain a measure of control over a segment of the population that has previously acted outside the law.

Tony Stark has been through a great deal in his career, including having lost his company to various nefarious means, and I find it completely out of character for him to obey this legislation. Similarly, I cannot see Cap's outright defiance to this law. I can see where he would be opposed to it, but it would seem to me to be more in character for him to try to have it changed through appealing to the people to change the law, rather than to go rogue.

I will freely admit that my own biases towards Marvel may be affecting my opinion of Civil War. I had such high hopes for series such as the 198, which started in so promising a fashion with the parallels to the Holocaust, and Amazing X Men that I am close to swearing off Marvel entirely.


Thank you again for your thoughts, I hope we can continue this conversation (especially because I am virtually alone at work today and do not have much going on)
Governments, if they endure, always tend increasingly toward aristrocratic forms. No gov't in history has been known to evade this pattern. And as the aristocracy develops, gov't tends more and mroe to act exclusively in the interests of the ruling class

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More Civil War

Postby Adam-Troy » Mon Jul 03, 2006 2:09 pm

Aside from that -- there is the fact that the characters of the Marvel
Universe were getting too chummy; they were on their way to becoming
the organized heroes of DC, and something had to break that up.

Among the other comics I am dearly enjoying.

PUNISHER by Garth Ennis. Had anybody ever told I would *love* a Punisher comic, I would have called him a liar -- but this take on the one-note killing machine is noirish, gritty heaven, as far removed from superheroes
as the character has ever gotten. The four/five issue arcs are nasty, brutal, wholly indefensible...and driven by a certain dark integrity.

DAREDEVIL by Ed Brubaker. Same thing. The character has been driven far, far away from the likes of Stilt-Man and Leap-Frog; he is thoroughly damned, and Brubaker keeps stirring the coals.

NEW AVENGERS. Because I honestly cannot wait to see what Bendis does
next.
Coming in 2007: THE SHALLOW END OF THE POOL! Plus THE UNAUTHORIZED HARRY POTTER (Ben Bella Books).



Coming in 2008: EMISSARIES FROM THE DEAD!


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