Lost

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Eric Martin
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Postby Eric Martin » Fri Nov 11, 2005 7:29 am

Or, Jack is Superman, Kate is Wonder Woman, Locke is Batman....doesn't work as well as X-Men, though...

DVG
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Postby DVG » Fri Nov 11, 2005 9:53 am

PAB: just to clarify (and I apologize for futher OT discussion):

I am aware that the beast is a hallucination. That said, it stands out for me as a truly frightening creation (not quite a personification) of limitless malevolence. (by the way, "shuddery" is a word I'd use to describe any decapitated head on a stick crawling with vermin that speaks to me. Jon may have a higher revulsion threshold than do I).

The "accidental" nature of Simon's death has to do with the lack of malice aforethought, i.e., the boys do not set out to kill Simon specifically. I should have used the word "arbitrary" rather than "accidental." It still seems that this changes the moral reading of the incident.

The paratrooper is from a second plane crash, no? I take it he was not the pilot of the plane the boys were in.

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P.A. Berman
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Postby P.A. Berman » Fri Nov 11, 2005 4:31 pm

DVG wrote:I am aware that the beast is a hallucination. That said, it stands out for me as a truly frightening creation (not quite a personification) of limitless malevolence.


It's a symbol of the consequences of giving in to that horrible evil that's inside of us. Yes, it's very disturbing and frightening. I read it for the first time in 7th grade and it really stayed with me, especially Piggy dying. I went on to teach it to 9th graders for 3 years, and they seem to feel the horror too. It's a challenging book to teach, and before I left my prior job, I was told I wouldn't be allowed to teach it anymore because it was "too advanced" for 9th graders. :roll: Fortunately, I got another job instead.

The "accidental" nature of Simon's death has to do with the lack of malice aforethought, i.e., the boys do not set out to kill Simon specifically. I should have used the word "arbitrary" rather than "accidental." It still seems that this changes the moral reading of the incident.


I think on some level the mob wanted to kill Simon specifically. He represented an antidote to the irrational, mindless savagery, a way out. The Jack regime could not allow him to speak and dispel the fear that was so effectively used to rule and control. All of this is unconscious, of course, but I think that's the point-- the savage urge comes from the deeper parts of our brains, which strikes out against anything not itself.

The paratrooper is from a second plane crash, no? I take it he was not the pilot of the plane the boys were in.


Unknown. There was a war going on, so conceivably the paratrooper's plane was shot down, but it didn't crash into the island. The paratrooper bailed out before the crash, if there was one, and that other plane does not appear in the story.

PAB
I don't know. I don't care. And it doesn't matter anyway. ~Jack Kerouac

Eric Martin
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Postby Eric Martin » Fri Nov 11, 2005 6:20 pm

I'm still in denial about Shannon.

What, they couldn't have sent the Hobbit out over the waves, on a home-made trebuchet?

Damn.

rich

Postby rich » Sat Nov 12, 2005 5:53 pm

Eric Martin wrote:I'm still in denial about Shannon.


Not to worry. She'll try her hand at another horror flick, do a couple of LOST conventions in 2006, make a couple more B-movies, realize she's gonna have to show more than what's allowed in a bikini, and then end up opposite Julie Strain and Shannon Tweed in something called "Curse of the Nymphomaniac Vampires" that will be released direct to video and then Skinemax two months after. (And Sybil Danning, trying to make a comeback, will play the mummified naked matriarch of the vampire clan. Man, I think I got everyone but Sylvia Kristel in there.)

Got my VCR ready to record.

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JaySmith
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Postby JaySmith » Sat Nov 12, 2005 6:28 pm

rich wrote:Not to worry. She'll <...> end up opposite Julie Strain and Shannon Tweed in something called "Curse of the Nymphomaniac Vampires" that will be released direct to video and then Skinemax two months after.


Rich,
I'd like one ticket to whatever universe you're in and a box of chocolate-covered whateverthefuckyouresmoking because it seems like a real nice place to visit. :)

Eric Martin
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Postby Eric Martin » Mon Nov 14, 2005 11:05 am

Thanks Rich...now I can SLEEP at night.

Still think they could have offed the hobbit.

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Jon Stover
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Postby Jon Stover » Mon Nov 14, 2005 8:14 pm

Does anyone else think that if they've got any sense, they'll wrap the series up in 108 episodes?

Cheers, Jon

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Postby Douglas Harrison » Tue Nov 15, 2005 12:45 am

Jon Stover wrote:Does anyone else think that if they've got any sense, they'll wrap the series up in 108 episodes?


I'm with you there, Jon, but I think that'll only come to pass if the ratings drop off enough for the network to accept the creators pulling the various narrative threads together for a natural conclusion. Otherwise, ABC will continue to open vaults of lucre to sustain the thing--and few are those series creators (or other mortals) able to resist such a temptation.

So stop watching every week already!

D.

Eric Martin
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Postby Eric Martin » Tue Nov 15, 2005 6:49 am

That's a lot of episodes....like over 5 years worth. I can't see it lasting that long.

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Jon Stover
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Postby Jon Stover » Tue Nov 15, 2005 7:05 am

I think they did 25 last year and are scheduled for 23 this year. That leaves only three 20-ep seasons! Given that we're 'cycling back' this week and will probably do so again, it wouldn't surprise me if they tried for 108 days on the island...which means 60 more to go. 100 episodes is pretty much the gold standard for syndication, so I'd imagine they planned for that sort of length (ie. five seasons). I just hope there isn't a season 9 with a completely new cast, everyone else having trickled away over the years as ABC tries to milk the show. As I think ratings will start to fall next year regardless of goodness, I do hold out hope that they'll be able to conclude it.

Cheers, Jon

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Jon Stover
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Postby Jon Stover » Tue Nov 15, 2005 7:09 am

Note that my reasoning for a ratings drop-off starting next year is simply 'gut' -- no matter how good the answers and new mysteries are, I think it will level off and decline in ratings as people start watching other things that don't require as much week-to-week atention -- or just wait for the DVDs.

Cheers, Jon

Eric Martin
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Postby Eric Martin » Tue Nov 15, 2005 11:19 am

The last thing the producers should want to do is create another X-Files, where viewers were strung out for way too many seasons and a feature film and still not given a satisfying conclusion to the main storyline.

Mysteries are great, but as Dame Agatha will tell you, there has to be a denouement. I hope they are planning their exit strategy now.

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Postby David Loftus » Tue Nov 15, 2005 12:21 pm

Eric Martin wrote:The last thing the producers should want to do is create another X-Files, where viewers were strung out for way too many seasons and a feature film and still not given a satisfying conclusion to the main storyline.

Mysteries are great, but as Dame Agatha will tell you, there has to be a denouement. I hope they are planning their exit strategy now.



Au contraire. I thoroughly agree that X-Files went on too long, but mystery keeps things alive. Shakespeare didn't give too much away in "Hamlet," Fowles in _The Magus_, or Poe in many of his best tales.

Dame Agatha's books are like crossword puzzles -- gripping, perhaps, while you're in them, but utterly forgettable as soon as you close the cover. At least to me and Raymond Chandler, who utterly savaged her writing in his letters.
War is, at first, the hope that one will be better off; next, the expectation that the other fellow will be worse off; then, the satisfaction that he isn't any better off; and, finally, the surprise at everyone's being worse off. - Karl Kraus

Eric Martin
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Postby Eric Martin » Tue Nov 15, 2005 2:53 pm

Gotta disagree with you there, David. The "mystery" of X-Files dwindled into irrelevance, as it became apparent that the creators of the show really didn't have a clue how to wrap up their mythology.

Sure, Lost could run seven seasons and finally get cancelled, and we could still have about 40 people running around an island, dodging Surreal Life casting rejects and battling nanomites, all the while gawping at Nazi-ish symbolism in some underground cavern, and thinking back to the good old days before all the cute leads went on to movies and Terry O'Quinn held out for too much money...you get the drift.

I really hope they treat this as a work, a contained piece, and not let the lure of selling airtime water this down to where they are stunt casting for guest appearances and playing too many clips from previous shows...so often the fate of TV that runs too long...


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