Pavilion Digest: August 2009

A plethora of perplexing pavilion posts. The Pavilion Annex thread, the Pavilion Discussion thread, and monthly digests of all messages from the Pavilion.

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Voice of Reason

Postby Voice of Reason » Thu Aug 13, 2009 9:04 pm

Name: Voice of Reason
Source: unca20091009.htm
The cover art: bad idea jeans. You want to sell books. Find something better...like maybe a fish-head in aspic, which would be a lot more interesting.

Justin
Posts: 19
Joined: Wed Jun 11, 2003 1:36 pm
Location: varies wildly

Postby Justin » Thu Aug 13, 2009 9:12 pm

Name: Justin
Source: unca20091007.htm
The cover intrigues. The title intrigues. The combination of the two is dynamite. Go for it.

Justin
Posts: 19
Joined: Wed Jun 11, 2003 1:36 pm
Location: varies wildly

Postby Justin » Thu Aug 13, 2009 9:12 pm

Name: Justin
Source: unca20091009.htm
The cover intrigues. The title intrigues. The combination of the two is dynamite. Go for it.

shagin
Posts: 195
Joined: Fri Sep 08, 2006 2:58 pm
Location: Bremerton, WA

Postby shagin » Thu Aug 13, 2009 9:21 pm

Name: shagin
Source: unca20091007.htm
I think the cover is bold, intriguing, and visually striking. It promises an interesting read and (IMO) encourages a closer look rather than shying away based on a preconceived notion of what the symbols may or may not represent.

There is no profanity, and no disparaging imagery. The art is no more offensive than any number of historical texts that use similar interpretations to attract readers interest.

Go for it!


Sandra

shagin
Posts: 195
Joined: Fri Sep 08, 2006 2:58 pm
Location: Bremerton, WA

Postby shagin » Thu Aug 13, 2009 9:21 pm

Name: shagin
Source: unca20091009.htm
I think the cover is bold, intriguing, and visually striking. It promises an interesting read and (IMO) encourages a closer look rather than shying away based on a preconceived notion of what the symbols may or may not represent.

There is no profanity, and no disparaging imagery. The art is no more offensive than any number of historical texts that use similar interpretations to attract readers interest.

Go for it!


Sandra

Mike Valerio

THAT BOOK COVER

Postby Mike Valerio » Thu Aug 13, 2009 9:50 pm

Name: Mike Valerio
Source: unca20091007.htm
.
Harlan, since you asked...

When the FISH-HEADS cover popped up in my face, I have to admit...I blanched. My stomach jumped. My head spun a little. I had a pure, undiluted negative reaction.

But I gut-checked myself and said: "C'mon! Isn't this what we expect from Harlan? Strong ideas, strong imagery?"

And I admitted to myself, yes. This proposed FISH-HEADS cover is classic Ellison. It is challenging, it is provocative, it is incendiary.

But that doesn't mean I want that artwork sitting on my coffee table where friends and visitors are going to see it and judge it and put me in a position of having to explain both it and the author who chose it.

Sorry.

More importantly: I think, ultimately, the cover has the potential to overshadow the actual event that the book genuinely is.

This new book of yours arrives to a waiting world. It's a big deal. You're going to do lots of PR, sitting for interviews, participating in Q&A sessions. You'll be on TV, on the radio, on the internet getting asked questions by people who are much dumber than you are.

And all they are going to want to talk about is Hitler.

Harlan, I believe that if you stick with that art-choice, you are going to log more media jaw-time discussing/defending that inflammatory cover than you will discussing the wonderful words and ideas and stories that lie underneath that cover.

The artwork is a distraction that you do not need.

I say to you, sir: Let it be your writing that sets minds ablaze...and not the packaging that the writing comes wrapped up in.

Thanks for asking. Much respect.



Mike Valerio

THAT BOOK COVER

Postby Mike Valerio » Thu Aug 13, 2009 9:50 pm

Name: Mike Valerio
Source: unca20091009.htm
.
Harlan, since you asked...

When the FISH-HEADS cover popped up in my face, I have to admit...I blanched. My stomach jumped. My head spun a little. I had a pure, undiluted negative reaction.

But I gut-checked myself and said: "C'mon! Isn't this what we expect from Harlan? Strong ideas, strong imagery?"

And I admitted to myself, yes. This proposed FISH-HEADS cover is classic Ellison. It is challenging, it is provocative, it is incendiary.

But that doesn't mean I want that artwork sitting on my coffee table where friends and visitors are going to see it and judge it and put me in a position of having to explain both it and the author who chose it.

Sorry.

More importantly: I think, ultimately, the cover has the potential to overshadow the actual event that the book genuinely is.

This new book of yours arrives to a waiting world. It's a big deal. You're going to do lots of PR, sitting for interviews, participating in Q&A sessions. You'll be on TV, on the radio, on the internet getting asked questions by people who are much dumber than you are.

And all they are going to want to talk about is Hitler.

Harlan, I believe that if you stick with that art-choice, you are going to log more media jaw-time discussing/defending that inflammatory cover than you will discussing the wonderful words and ideas and stories that lie underneath that cover.

The artwork is a distraction that you do not need.

I say to you, sir: Let it be your writing that sets minds ablaze...and not the packaging that the writing comes wrapped up in.

Thanks for asking. Much respect.



Semi-Writer
Posts: 92
Joined: Sat May 26, 2012 6:24 pm

Fish-Head

Postby Semi-Writer » Thu Aug 13, 2009 10:45 pm

Name: Semi-Writer
Source: unca20091007.htm
My gut reaction upon seeing the title and the intended cover is: er, no, that isn't something that intrigues me. The cover art, in my obviously-inexperienced opinion, needs to be more eye-catching in its composition, colors, depth and subject matter.

But I'm a big fan of compromise and you do love it, so... I don't suppose it's possible to have this "cover" be an inside illustration instead, situated next to the title page? I realize such a trend has faded out in modern publishing, but I've always liked additional illustrations inside a book.

*******************************

Meanwhile, my own pitiful writing efforts have me adding a mere 1,200+ words (in the past two days) to my intended next novel. The last novel effort of "Losing Your Legs"--which I cut off at the first handful of chapters, then threw onto the internet in borderline horror--is what I'm afraid of doing again. I've already got it about 70% written but I don't want to go chicken-shit on the long-term commitment. "Is it good enough?" is the big question. Damn it, does that question EVER stop?!?

Semi-Writer
Posts: 92
Joined: Sat May 26, 2012 6:24 pm

Fish-Head

Postby Semi-Writer » Thu Aug 13, 2009 10:45 pm

Name: Semi-Writer
Source: unca20091009.htm
My gut reaction upon seeing the title and the intended cover is: er, no, that isn't something that intrigues me. The cover art, in my obviously-inexperienced opinion, needs to be more eye-catching in its composition, colors, depth and subject matter.

But I'm a big fan of compromise and you do love it, so... I don't suppose it's possible to have this "cover" be an inside illustration instead, situated next to the title page? I realize such a trend has faded out in modern publishing, but I've always liked additional illustrations inside a book.

*******************************

Meanwhile, my own pitiful writing efforts have me adding a mere 1,200+ words (in the past two days) to my intended next novel. The last novel effort of "Losing Your Legs"--which I cut off at the first handful of chapters, then threw onto the internet in borderline horror--is what I'm afraid of doing again. I've already got it about 70% written but I don't want to go chicken-shit on the long-term commitment. "Is it good enough?" is the big question. Damn it, does that question EVER stop?!?

Mike Pascale

Postby Mike Pascale » Thu Aug 13, 2009 11:06 pm

Name: Mike Pascale
Source: unca20091007.htm
Mr. E:
Since--and ONLY since--you asked:

First, the good news: I conducted a Google image search with the title and no cover art showed up in the first couple pages. So hopefully all have abided by your request. (My browser tells me I misspelled "abided". Too lazy to look it up.)

Great painting (from the lowres image)! At first glance I thought it was a photo. Nice design, too. As an artist, and a former ad agency art director for 15 years, I appreciate that kind o' stuff. My compliments to the illustrator. (The patience needed for doing that kind of thing is something I respect but do not possess.)

As for the image, well, what's your intent? If you want to piss off, anger, offend, and turn off a plethora of those unfamiliar with your work, and want a comparitively small number of fans and fellow intended folks who "get it" to nod and smile, then it works. If you want to attract new readers and get lots of favorable superficial press, probably not.

My first impression? It almost smacks of "shock for shock's sake", which IMHO is beneath you. It's like Howard Stern without the humor or cleverness. More like a Rush Limbaugh ploy. I can hear the puerile detractors droning already: "Oooooh, he used a big swastika and Nazi uniform. Oooooh, he's so baaaad. Snicker-snicker." Why give those acerebral ranarium workers ammunition?

Me, I'm a literal sort. I think it would be more effective, unique and humorous by having a giant fish head sticking out of the uniform. (I like to laugh, what can I say?) Or even as Cramer suggested, your face, with a sarcastic, wry expression.

Obviously I realize my opinion means as much to you as a dollar does to a Frenchman. But you asked!

Of course...Regardless of your final decision, I hope you sell a million, make a million, and make literary history---as usual!

Thanks,
Mike



Mike Pascale

Postby Mike Pascale » Thu Aug 13, 2009 11:06 pm

Name: Mike Pascale
Source: unca20091009.htm
Mr. E:
Since--and ONLY since--you asked:

First, the good news: I conducted a Google image search with the title and no cover art showed up in the first couple pages. So hopefully all have abided by your request. (My browser tells me I misspelled "abided". Too lazy to look it up.)

Great painting (from the lowres image)! At first glance I thought it was a photo. Nice design, too. As an artist, and a former ad agency art director for 15 years, I appreciate that kind o' stuff. My compliments to the illustrator. (The patience needed for doing that kind of thing is something I respect but do not possess.)

As for the image, well, what's your intent? If you want to piss off, anger, offend, and turn off a plethora of those unfamiliar with your work, and want a comparitively small number of fans and fellow intended folks who "get it" to nod and smile, then it works. If you want to attract new readers and get lots of favorable superficial press, probably not.

My first impression? It almost smacks of "shock for shock's sake", which IMHO is beneath you. It's like Howard Stern without the humor or cleverness. More like a Rush Limbaugh ploy. I can hear the puerile detractors droning already: "Oooooh, he used a big swastika and Nazi uniform. Oooooh, he's so baaaad. Snicker-snicker." Why give those acerebral ranarium workers ammunition?

Me, I'm a literal sort. I think it would be more effective, unique and humorous by having a giant fish head sticking out of the uniform. (I like to laugh, what can I say?) Or even as Cramer suggested, your face, with a sarcastic, wry expression.

Obviously I realize my opinion means as much to you as a dollar does to a Frenchman. But you asked!

Of course...Regardless of your final decision, I hope you sell a million, make a million, and make literary history---as usual!

Thanks,
Mike



stevendooner
Posts: 18
Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 12:24 pm

Postby stevendooner » Fri Aug 14, 2009 12:17 am

Name: Steve Dooner
Source: unca20091007.htm
Harlan,

That cover is one helluva "dangerous vision" and shrinking the swastika will reduce the cover's dramatic force. It's both surreal and terrifying, as it is.

Go for it!

Steve Dooner


stevendooner
Posts: 18
Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 12:24 pm

Postby stevendooner » Fri Aug 14, 2009 12:17 am

Name: Steve Dooner
Source: unca20091009.htm
Harlan,

That cover is one helluva "dangerous vision" and shrinking the swastika will reduce the cover's dramatic force. It's both surreal and terrifying, as it is.

Go for it!

Steve Dooner


Iain Cullen

Artwork

Postby Iain Cullen » Fri Aug 14, 2009 12:50 am

Name: Iain Cullen
Source: unca20091007.htm
Please do not change this cover. As Mike Pascale noted it is
a fabulous piece of art, and as other supporters have noted
it provides your brain with a genuine mental workout.
If only other authors took the outward presentation of their
work as seriously as you do Mr. Ellison we would be saved from
the plethora of naff images that publishers foist onto us.

Cheers, Iain.

Iain Cullen

Artwork

Postby Iain Cullen » Fri Aug 14, 2009 12:50 am

Name: Iain Cullen
Source: unca20091009.htm
Please do not change this cover. As Mike Pascale noted it is
a fabulous piece of art, and as other supporters have noted
it provides your brain with a genuine mental workout.
If only other authors took the outward presentation of their
work as seriously as you do Mr. Ellison we would be saved from
the plethora of naff images that publishers foist onto us.

Cheers, Iain.


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