Pavilion Digest: August 2009

A plethora of perplexing pavilion posts. The Pavilion Annex thread, the Pavilion Discussion thread, and monthly digests of all messages from the Pavilion.

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Brian Phillips
Posts: 85
Joined: Tue Jan 20, 2009 2:07 am

Prayer for the unemployed

Postby Brian Phillips » Sat Aug 01, 2009 12:12 pm

Name: Brian Phillips
Source: unca20091007.htm
To Mary, Sandra, Semi-Writer and all the other Webderlanders, I pray for rewarding employment and soon.

To Frank:

1. Dick Gregory may have a point about the sexism of some Blues lyrics, but, of course, not all of the lyrics are sexist. Can anyone name a form of secular music that does NOT have several songs in it that don't have a sexist element? I'll include Hillbilly music as well.

Since this is a writer's forum, I will also guess that Frank is discussing what he read in Dick Gregory's book, "Callus on My Soul", which is an update of his autobiography.

2. Is this the skinny you were looking for?
http://www.whitehouse.gov/health-insura ... otections/
Also, President Obama is going to discuss health care on Wednesday on ABC.

At least we aren't waiting about wondering when the President is going to stick his foot in his mouth.

To William Sherman:

I have no credibility if you wish to judge me as a man who has ALSO served in the military. I will not lecture you on what to tell your relatives about the merits or demerits of military service. I can tell you, in my best informed feeble wheeze, yes, I think this country is worth defending and do not let the your (not necessarily unfounded) despair over certain events dissuade you. The fact that you are so concerned tells me two things: one, you are genuinely worried, and two, (I hope) you believe there is something worth saving. Let us all (myself included) work to better this country. We can all spot problems, but let's be honest, a dog can point, but we have the ability to reason.

In short, I don't think your time was wasted and for what ever it was that you and your family did, thanks.

To make sure my post has SOME relevance to this board:

This has a small blurb about Harlan Ellison:
http://io9.com/5326068/son-of-retro-pul ... ap-thrills

HE cited in this article (I need to read the introduction to "Strange Wine" again!)
http://www.examiner.com/x-3773-Portland ... t-forecast

Brian Phillips

Brian Phillips
Posts: 85
Joined: Tue Jan 20, 2009 2:07 am

Prayer for the unemployed

Postby Brian Phillips » Sat Aug 01, 2009 12:12 pm

Name: Brian Phillips
Source: unca20091009.htm
To Mary, Sandra, Semi-Writer and all the other Webderlanders, I pray for rewarding employment and soon.

To Frank:

1. Dick Gregory may have a point about the sexism of some Blues lyrics, but, of course, not all of the lyrics are sexist. Can anyone name a form of secular music that does NOT have several songs in it that don't have a sexist element? I'll include Hillbilly music as well.

Since this is a writer's forum, I will also guess that Frank is discussing what he read in Dick Gregory's book, "Callus on My Soul", which is an update of his autobiography.

2. Is this the skinny you were looking for?
http://www.whitehouse.gov/health-insura ... otections/
Also, President Obama is going to discuss health care on Wednesday on ABC.

At least we aren't waiting about wondering when the President is going to stick his foot in his mouth.

To William Sherman:

I have no credibility if you wish to judge me as a man who has ALSO served in the military. I will not lecture you on what to tell your relatives about the merits or demerits of military service. I can tell you, in my best informed feeble wheeze, yes, I think this country is worth defending and do not let the your (not necessarily unfounded) despair over certain events dissuade you. The fact that you are so concerned tells me two things: one, you are genuinely worried, and two, (I hope) you believe there is something worth saving. Let us all (myself included) work to better this country. We can all spot problems, but let's be honest, a dog can point, but we have the ability to reason.

In short, I don't think your time was wasted and for what ever it was that you and your family did, thanks.

To make sure my post has SOME relevance to this board:

This has a small blurb about Harlan Ellison:
http://io9.com/5326068/son-of-retro-pul ... ap-thrills

HE cited in this article (I need to read the introduction to "Strange Wine" again!)
http://www.examiner.com/x-3773-Portland ... t-forecast

Brian Phillips

User avatar
Harlan Ellison
Harlan Fucking Ellison
Posts: 847
Joined: Mon Jul 14, 2003 10:24 am

JAN IN THE EU, and ANYBODY ELSE

Postby Harlan Ellison » Sat Aug 01, 2009 12:51 pm

Name: HARLAN ELLISON
Source: unca20091007.htm
Earlier today (Saturday 1 August), Jan posted links to "Sites of Ellisonian Interest" and one of them was a 4-page Italian essay by Carmine Treanni (from 2005) that appeared in the magazine DELOS SCIENCE FICTION, issue #97. I don't have a copy of said periodical, and I would be--as-usual--much indebted and would reimburse (book or money) anyone(or 2) who could snag me a copy (or 2).

Thank you in advance; and as always...Jan...you are a gorgeous asset to my life.

Yr. Pal, Harlan

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Harlan Ellison
Harlan Fucking Ellison
Posts: 847
Joined: Mon Jul 14, 2003 10:24 am

JAN IN THE EU, and ANYBODY ELSE

Postby Harlan Ellison » Sat Aug 01, 2009 12:51 pm

Name: HARLAN ELLISON
Source: unca20091009.htm
Earlier today (Saturday 1 August), Jan posted links to "Sites of Ellisonian Interest" and one of them was a 4-page Italian essay by Carmine Treanni (from 2005) that appeared in the magazine DELOS SCIENCE FICTION, issue #97. I don't have a copy of said periodical, and I would be--as-usual--much indebted and would reimburse (book or money) anyone(or 2) who could snag me a copy (or 2).

Thank you in advance; and as always...Jan...you are a gorgeous asset to my life.

Yr. Pal, Harlan

shagin
Posts: 195
Joined: Fri Sep 08, 2006 2:58 pm
Location: Bremerton, WA

Postby shagin » Sat Aug 01, 2009 2:10 pm

Name: shagin
Source: unca20091007.htm
BRIAN P. wrote: "To make sure my post has SOME relevance to this board:"

Since when don't your posts have relevance to Webderland when they're given with thoughtful, sometimes silly intent, and contribute to the conversation at hand without directly involving our host?

*bonk*

Need I say more?

*bonk*


shagin

shagin
Posts: 195
Joined: Fri Sep 08, 2006 2:58 pm
Location: Bremerton, WA

Postby shagin » Sat Aug 01, 2009 2:10 pm

Name: shagin
Source: unca20091009.htm
BRIAN P. wrote: "To make sure my post has SOME relevance to this board:"

Since when don't your posts have relevance to Webderland when they're given with thoughtful, sometimes silly intent, and contribute to the conversation at hand without directly involving our host?

*bonk*

Need I say more?

*bonk*


shagin

User avatar
Harlan Ellison
Harlan Fucking Ellison
Posts: 847
Joined: Mon Jul 14, 2003 10:24 am

ONE MORE HUMBLE REQUEST

Postby Harlan Ellison » Sat Aug 01, 2009 2:19 pm

Name: HARLAN ELLISON
Source: unca20091007.htm
(For anyone EXCEPT Steve Barber, on whom I've already presumed too often.)

There is a nifty review of the forthcoming Joe/Keith Lansdale-edited anthology, SON OF RETRO PULP, in which said volume appears a "new" story of mine, "The Toad Prince, or, Sex-Queen of the Martian Pleasure-Domes," at a website namesaked io9.

The review is swelllll, and I wish to get it properly downloaded for the files and the scrapbook, but somewhichway it has been posted by the io9 Team with the left edge lost. I am desirous NOT of having any of YOU do it...but of reaching any of the following three(3) io9 sources, and speaking to same
personally...

(pant gasp pant)

The reviewer is one Chris Hsiang, who goes by the handle "grey area" and whose e.mail address is grey area@io9.com -- the editor of io9 is one Annalee Newitz -- and the Weekend Editor is Graeme McMillan -- the latter duo is likely at some variation of Grey Area's e.mail address...

(rasp grunt wheeze)

If, somehow, one or another of you -- not you Barber -- can parse your way through the preceding, and get to a member of that trio, and let them know that The Real me is trying to contact them, and get me a PHONE NUMBER, as I do not do e.mail, as y'all know...well, I would be mmmmmm well, grateful--

Not to mention exhausted.

Yr. Beseechingly Craven Pal, Harlan

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Harlan Ellison
Harlan Fucking Ellison
Posts: 847
Joined: Mon Jul 14, 2003 10:24 am

ONE MORE HUMBLE REQUEST

Postby Harlan Ellison » Sat Aug 01, 2009 2:19 pm

Name: HARLAN ELLISON
Source: unca20091009.htm
(For anyone EXCEPT Steve Barber, on whom I've already presumed too often.)

There is a nifty review of the forthcoming Joe/Keith Lansdale-edited anthology, SON OF RETRO PULP, in which said volume appears a "new" story of mine, "The Toad Prince, or, Sex-Queen of the Martian Pleasure-Domes," at a website namesaked io9.

The review is swelllll, and I wish to get it properly downloaded for the files and the scrapbook, but somewhichway it has been posted by the io9 Team with the left edge lost. I am desirous NOT of having any of YOU do it...but of reaching any of the following three(3) io9 sources, and speaking to same
personally...

(pant gasp pant)

The reviewer is one Chris Hsiang, who goes by the handle "grey area" and whose e.mail address is grey area@io9.com -- the editor of io9 is one Annalee Newitz -- and the Weekend Editor is Graeme McMillan -- the latter duo is likely at some variation of Grey Area's e.mail address...

(rasp grunt wheeze)

If, somehow, one or another of you -- not you Barber -- can parse your way through the preceding, and get to a member of that trio, and let them know that The Real me is trying to contact them, and get me a PHONE NUMBER, as I do not do e.mail, as y'all know...well, I would be mmmmmm well, grateful--

Not to mention exhausted.

Yr. Beseechingly Craven Pal, Harlan

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Jan
Posts: 1817
Joined: Thu Aug 19, 2004 2:25 pm
Location: Köln

Postby Jan » Sat Aug 01, 2009 2:30 pm

Name: Jan
Source: unca20091007.htm
Harlan, you're welcome - Delos has downloadable archive versions (PDF) and original print versions of the mag for subscribers. This one (March 2006, though the article has a 2005 date) they don't have actual back issues of, but I'll inquire by e-mail. No used copies to be found via internet. And to make this Delos matter complete...
A 2-page retrospective article about you and B5 from Delos 101:
www.fantascienza.com/magazine/speciali/ ... ison-five/
Some older books of yours rediscovered in Delos 41 (I think you know this):
www.fantascienza.com/magazine/rubriche/ ... n-ellison/
Incidentally, the Delos store has the old Mondadori Dangerous Visions at 120 EUR in near mint condition, 100 EUR vg condition. Invest in Harlan Ellison!

Their web presence is connected to Corriere della Fantascienza which is a SF site that cites Locus and so on as sources. This was their article about DWST, for example (I may have mentioned it at the time):
www.fantascienza.com/magazine/notizie/1 ... n-ellison/
(A correction BTW - that Batman B&W must be the Polish edition as you may have noticed.)

User avatar
Jan
Posts: 1817
Joined: Thu Aug 19, 2004 2:25 pm
Location: Köln

Postby Jan » Sat Aug 01, 2009 2:30 pm

Name: Jan
Source: unca20091009.htm
Harlan, you're welcome - Delos has downloadable archive versions (PDF) and original print versions of the mag for subscribers. This one (March 2006, though the article has a 2005 date) they don't have actual back issues of, but I'll inquire by e-mail. No used copies to be found via internet. And to make this Delos matter complete...
A 2-page retrospective article about you and B5 from Delos 101:
www.fantascienza.com/magazine/speciali/ ... ison-five/
Some older books of yours rediscovered in Delos 41 (I think you know this):
www.fantascienza.com/magazine/rubriche/ ... n-ellison/
Incidentally, the Delos store has the old Mondadori Dangerous Visions at 120 EUR in near mint condition, 100 EUR vg condition. Invest in Harlan Ellison!

Their web presence is connected to Corriere della Fantascienza which is a SF site that cites Locus and so on as sources. This was their article about DWST, for example (I may have mentioned it at the time):
www.fantascienza.com/magazine/notizie/1 ... n-ellison/
(A correction BTW - that Batman B&W must be the Polish edition as you may have noticed.)

User avatar
robochrist
Posts: 3426
Joined: Sun Jun 06, 2004 1:30 pm

"The Most Terrifying Words In The English Language"

Postby robochrist » Sat Aug 01, 2009 2:39 pm

Name: Rob
Source: unca20091007.htm
KOS,

Call this my own knee jerking, but, respectfully (and if I took the semantics wrong Im sure youll let me know; this is not an effort to bully you), I have to submit I found your tag from a day ago, practical Conservative, something of a hurdle.

I mean...does the genetic code make such a hybrid possible?

Ive actually wanted to bring this subject up a number of times here, about how Conservatives try to distance themselves from the NeoCons, which is NOT entirely UNJUSTIFIED but only stretches so far.

Back when Bush was still playing President, even THEN many were saying, the trouble with Bush is hes not REALLY a Conservative.
Yet, it is, indeed, Conservative thought and policy that got us precisely where we are now. William F. Buckley the spiritual godfather of the modern American Conservative movement who helped pave the way for Reagans Presidency - was among the first public intellectuals to make the case for smaller government (a necessity I think is a complete myth) and - that virulence cultivated by every cold-blooded self-serving fuck who slithered the earth - laissez-faire economics. This is the fundamental precept shared to the core by Conservatives and NeoCons alike, the virus to which we can almost SOLELY attribute our current crisis; it is Conservative ideology that handed both lanes of the road ultimately to the NeoCons. At the ROOT of it, historically, the two CANNOT be separated.

I DO believe in the utility of labels myself such as Progressive vis--vis Conservative - because they help classify main sets of principles. Thats the function of language, as Ferdinand de Saussure would argue.

This isnt to say one cant be of mixed minds. NO camp is ALWAYS correct in its summations; NO camp is ALWAYS wrong in its summations. But the core question SHOULD always be: what moves mankind forward as in the human race, not just a privileged few - MOST effectively in the LONG run (which includes nurturing our own planet, rather than raping it as our species has since we rose from the primordial muck), in face of the fact that CHANGE is a universal constant?

Before I ride off into the sunset, here are some highlights from both Buckley and Reagan, the embodiment of American Conservatism (The Yuppie movement of the 80s inspired by Reagans propagated banners was the beginning of mass piracy, in both American capital and ethics; its, in my mind, the modern lab experiment for the correlates and outcome of Conservative policy).

Buckley in 1968, recounted by Gore Vidal:
The Chicago Police riot was at its peak. Predictably, Buckley took the side of the police. This was particularly hard to do since, just before we went on the air, ABC had shown a series of exchanges between police and demonstrators which made it quite clear that the boys in azure blue were on a great lark, beating up everyone in sight. Buckley attacked me for defending the victims.

And Buckley arguing Better Red than Dead with Professor Carl Sagan in the 1980s:

Sagan developed the concept of a nuclear winter arguing that fires from a nuclear holocaust would create smoke and dust that would cut out the suns rays leading to a global coolingperhaps threatening agriculture and leading to global famine. He incensed the right wing, and in particular William F. Buckley. But Sagan held firm on his ideas, supported by other scientists. (Several years ago yeah, its been that long! - Todd here argued about how Lefties kept yammering in those decades as they always do - about how wed destroy ourselves with nuclear weapons, yet it never happened, Todd points out. But Todd forgot how many Liberals had been protesting against the nuclear build-up, taking the information about it every where they could go, and ID say thats ONE reason we did NOT have conflagration)

Now, lets look at Reagans legacy, since everything weve seen up to last January (and it COULD be argued even now, since Obama a moderate surrounds himself with corporate people) is a direct outgrowth of the Reagan era:

Ronald Reagan:
We developed at the local school district level probably the best public school system in the world. Or it was until the Federal government added Federal interference to Federal financial aid and eroded educational quality in the process?

Reagan:
It would seem that not only is religion lacking in the schools...so is common sense. I wonder what a teacher is supposed to say if a kid asks about those four words on a dime, 'In God We Trust.' Or maybe that's why they aren't being taught how to read these days.

Reagan:
The NRA believes America's laws were made to be obeyed and that our Constitutional liberties are just as important today as 200 years ago. And by the way, the Constitution does not say Government shall decree the right to keep and bear arms. The Constitution says 'The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.'

...And who could leave out Ronnies infamous:
The nine most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the government and I'm here to help.















User avatar
robochrist
Posts: 3426
Joined: Sun Jun 06, 2004 1:30 pm

"The Most Terrifying Words In The English Language"

Postby robochrist » Sat Aug 01, 2009 2:39 pm

Name: Rob
Source: unca20091009.htm
KOS,

Call this my own knee jerking, but, respectfully (and if I took the semantics wrong Im sure youll let me know; this is not an effort to bully you), I have to submit I found your tag from a day ago, practical Conservative, something of a hurdle.

I mean...does the genetic code make such a hybrid possible?

Ive actually wanted to bring this subject up a number of times here, about how Conservatives try to distance themselves from the NeoCons, which is NOT entirely UNJUSTIFIED but only stretches so far.

Back when Bush was still playing President, even THEN many were saying, the trouble with Bush is hes not REALLY a Conservative.
Yet, it is, indeed, Conservative thought and policy that got us precisely where we are now. William F. Buckley the spiritual godfather of the modern American Conservative movement who helped pave the way for Reagans Presidency - was among the first public intellectuals to make the case for smaller government (a necessity I think is a complete myth) and - that virulence cultivated by every cold-blooded self-serving fuck who slithered the earth - laissez-faire economics. This is the fundamental precept shared to the core by Conservatives and NeoCons alike, the virus to which we can almost SOLELY attribute our current crisis; it is Conservative ideology that handed both lanes of the road ultimately to the NeoCons. At the ROOT of it, historically, the two CANNOT be separated.

I DO believe in the utility of labels myself such as Progressive vis--vis Conservative - because they help classify main sets of principles. Thats the function of language, as Ferdinand de Saussure would argue.

This isnt to say one cant be of mixed minds. NO camp is ALWAYS correct in its summations; NO camp is ALWAYS wrong in its summations. But the core question SHOULD always be: what moves mankind forward as in the human race, not just a privileged few - MOST effectively in the LONG run (which includes nurturing our own planet, rather than raping it as our species has since we rose from the primordial muck), in face of the fact that CHANGE is a universal constant?

Before I ride off into the sunset, here are some highlights from both Buckley and Reagan, the embodiment of American Conservatism (The Yuppie movement of the 80s inspired by Reagans propagated banners was the beginning of mass piracy, in both American capital and ethics; its, in my mind, the modern lab experiment for the correlates and outcome of Conservative policy).

Buckley in 1968, recounted by Gore Vidal:
The Chicago Police riot was at its peak. Predictably, Buckley took the side of the police. This was particularly hard to do since, just before we went on the air, ABC had shown a series of exchanges between police and demonstrators which made it quite clear that the boys in azure blue were on a great lark, beating up everyone in sight. Buckley attacked me for defending the victims.

And Buckley arguing Better Red than Dead with Professor Carl Sagan in the 1980s:

Sagan developed the concept of a nuclear winter arguing that fires from a nuclear holocaust would create smoke and dust that would cut out the suns rays leading to a global coolingperhaps threatening agriculture and leading to global famine. He incensed the right wing, and in particular William F. Buckley. But Sagan held firm on his ideas, supported by other scientists. (Several years ago yeah, its been that long! - Todd here argued about how Lefties kept yammering in those decades as they always do - about how wed destroy ourselves with nuclear weapons, yet it never happened, Todd points out. But Todd forgot how many Liberals had been protesting against the nuclear build-up, taking the information about it every where they could go, and ID say thats ONE reason we did NOT have conflagration)

Now, lets look at Reagans legacy, since everything weve seen up to last January (and it COULD be argued even now, since Obama a moderate surrounds himself with corporate people) is a direct outgrowth of the Reagan era:

Ronald Reagan:
We developed at the local school district level probably the best public school system in the world. Or it was until the Federal government added Federal interference to Federal financial aid and eroded educational quality in the process?

Reagan:
It would seem that not only is religion lacking in the schools...so is common sense. I wonder what a teacher is supposed to say if a kid asks about those four words on a dime, 'In God We Trust.' Or maybe that's why they aren't being taught how to read these days.

Reagan:
The NRA believes America's laws were made to be obeyed and that our Constitutional liberties are just as important today as 200 years ago. And by the way, the Constitution does not say Government shall decree the right to keep and bear arms. The Constitution says 'The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.'

...And who could leave out Ronnies infamous:
The nine most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the government and I'm here to help.















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Lori Koonce
Posts: 3538
Joined: Sat Jun 23, 2007 12:10 pm
Location: San Francisco California
Contact:

Hey Unca Harlan

Postby Lori Koonce » Sat Aug 01, 2009 2:48 pm

Name: Lori Koonce
Source: unca20091007.htm
A request has been sent to the editor on IO9 on your behalf.

I've asked for any non computer method for you to contact the editor or the proper person to have your request met.

Just sent a few minutes ago, and will send any response I get to Rick so you can recieve it.

Lori Koonce

User avatar
Lori Koonce
Posts: 3538
Joined: Sat Jun 23, 2007 12:10 pm
Location: San Francisco California
Contact:

Hey Unca Harlan

Postby Lori Koonce » Sat Aug 01, 2009 2:48 pm

Name: Lori Koonce
Source: unca20091009.htm
A request has been sent to the editor on IO9 on your behalf.

I've asked for any non computer method for you to contact the editor or the proper person to have your request met.

Just sent a few minutes ago, and will send any response I get to Rick so you can recieve it.

Lori Koonce

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Moderator
Site Admin
Posts: 10607
Joined: Sun Jan 15, 2006 12:17 pm
Contact:

Rollercoaster of Life

Postby Moderator » Sat Aug 01, 2009 3:21 pm

Name: Steve Barber
Source: unca20091007.htm
Today has been an interesting one. This week, in fact, has been a recordbreaker.

I mention on the Forums about waking up to read an email from a dear friend letting us know his girlfriend of the last seven or so years, the woman who in many ways made his life happy and complete, was killed last weekend in a freak accident while hiking. We're unable to make the service, but I cannot fathom the pain he must be feeling and yet I don't want to call and add to the chaos. I'll be there when the din dies down. I've learned that this is truly when you're needed.

Later in the day I discovered that another friend, Ruthann Greenblat (the artist that painted the artwork for Cris' third album COMES LOVE) has launched her own website. Her art is stunning, in particular her LIFE AS THEATER series.

http://www.ruthann-studio.com/

I drop my car off -- I'm in Raleigh next week so it's time to get work done -- and am informed that it's going to hurt a bit when the time comes to pay for the repairs.

Going by Costco on the way home I drown my day by buying a package of the trademarked Costco Chocolate Chip cookies (if you know what I mean, you know what I mean).

I then get a call from my favorite author, and we talk for a short time about life, dentistry, family and friends. Who never mentions that he's looking for help locating someone (thanks for covering, Lori). ( ! )

And tonight we're heading up to Hollywood to eat at Prizzi's Piazza, the restaurant owned by my most long-term buddy and her husband. (Yes, an even longer friendship than the one with my lady.)

With the rollercoaster way my day is going, I may just rear-end a cop along the way.




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