Pavilion Digest: July 2009

A plethora of perplexing pavilion posts. The Pavilion Annex thread, the Pavilion Discussion thread, and monthly digests of all messages from the Pavilion.

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Alan Coil
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Postby Alan Coil » Fri Jul 31, 2009 5:57 am

Name: Alan Coil
Source: unca20091009.htm
Ray Carlson,

Your comment is wrong is so many ways. I'm sorry you have bought into the propaganda against fixing the health care system.

I'm sure if you want to have further discussion about the health care reform plan that the discussion can flourish over at the Forums.

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Postby Moderator » Fri Jul 31, 2009 7:05 am

Name: Steve Barber
Source: unca20091007.htm

Ray -
I agree with Alan that you (seem to) have bought into the fearmongering being thrown about by the insurance companies and their proxies. There is no boogy man, and he will not eat your children.

Of particular concern is your labeling of a Public Option as some sort of Big Brother invasion of your privacy -- which, hate to be the one to tell you, is already done courtesy the IRS, Social Security and Medicare/Medicaid.

Why, if I may be so bold to ask, are you far more willing to entrust your healthcare to a large conglomerate with the stated goal of increaed profits (at your expense, mind you)? Do you genuinely trust a for-profit decision maker has your best interests at heart???

This is not the rant of a conspiracy theorist. I have been an unwilling user of insurance coverage for several years now due to some medical issues I won't discuss publicly, but I can assure you that my individual health is not their primary motivation.

Case in point: I went to the Emergency Room five years ago with chest pains. The results in the ER were inconclusive (but were eventually diagnosed as an enlarged heart wall). Because I had been to my personal doctor two days before for a review of recurring heartburn, the insurance company denied the entire ER claim on the basis it had to have been heartburn.

It eventually took a letter from the ER doctor pointing to the use of nitroglycerin -- and the comment that he rarely uses nitro as a remedy for heartburn. In point of fact, the reference to possible heartburn was the fifth potential cause of my pain -- you had to LOOK for it in order to see it. After two rounds of argument, the insurance company paid the claim.

But I should never have had to argue in the first place had they not tried to get out of paying.

Your comment that this form of medical management doesn't work anywhere is also false. Congress itself uses "socialized" medicine and seems to be quite satisfied with their coverage. As does the military.

The use of fear as a motivator to change the consumers' minds in and of itself demonstrates there's no other rational argument. Historically, if you have to scare people to get them to agree with you, then whatever else you're saying doesn't have much of a compelling story.

"ObamaCare" -- to me -- is far superior to what we have now. Is it perfect, far from it. Is it socialized medicine? No. Do insurance providers want/like it? Absolutely not.

Is it in the best interest of the majority of Americans? Unquestionable. Again, unconscionable that Congress and Conservatives are scaring folks into submission.



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Postby Moderator » Fri Jul 31, 2009 7:05 am

Name: Steve Barber
Source: unca20091009.htm

Ray -
I agree with Alan that you (seem to) have bought into the fearmongering being thrown about by the insurance companies and their proxies. There is no boogy man, and he will not eat your children.

Of particular concern is your labeling of a Public Option as some sort of Big Brother invasion of your privacy -- which, hate to be the one to tell you, is already done courtesy the IRS, Social Security and Medicare/Medicaid.

Why, if I may be so bold to ask, are you far more willing to entrust your healthcare to a large conglomerate with the stated goal of increaed profits (at your expense, mind you)? Do you genuinely trust a for-profit decision maker has your best interests at heart???

This is not the rant of a conspiracy theorist. I have been an unwilling user of insurance coverage for several years now due to some medical issues I won't discuss publicly, but I can assure you that my individual health is not their primary motivation.

Case in point: I went to the Emergency Room five years ago with chest pains. The results in the ER were inconclusive (but were eventually diagnosed as an enlarged heart wall). Because I had been to my personal doctor two days before for a review of recurring heartburn, the insurance company denied the entire ER claim on the basis it had to have been heartburn.

It eventually took a letter from the ER doctor pointing to the use of nitroglycerin -- and the comment that he rarely uses nitro as a remedy for heartburn. In point of fact, the reference to possible heartburn was the fifth potential cause of my pain -- you had to LOOK for it in order to see it. After two rounds of argument, the insurance company paid the claim.

But I should never have had to argue in the first place had they not tried to get out of paying.

Your comment that this form of medical management doesn't work anywhere is also false. Congress itself uses "socialized" medicine and seems to be quite satisfied with their coverage. As does the military.

The use of fear as a motivator to change the consumers' minds in and of itself demonstrates there's no other rational argument. Historically, if you have to scare people to get them to agree with you, then whatever else you're saying doesn't have much of a compelling story.

"ObamaCare" -- to me -- is far superior to what we have now. Is it perfect, far from it. Is it socialized medicine? No. Do insurance providers want/like it? Absolutely not.

Is it in the best interest of the majority of Americans? Unquestionable. Again, unconscionable that Congress and Conservatives are scaring folks into submission.



Dennis C
Posts: 105
Joined: Sat May 26, 2012 6:23 pm

WorldCon

Postby Dennis C » Fri Jul 31, 2009 7:14 am

Name: Dennis C
Source: unca20091007.htm
Headed to WorldCon Montreal -- if any fellow Webderlanders are going and would like to get together, my email is above, or use the Voodoo Board at WorldCon.
Neil Gaiman is guest of honor, so should be fun.

Dennis C
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WorldCon

Postby Dennis C » Fri Jul 31, 2009 7:14 am

Name: Dennis C
Source: unca20091009.htm
Headed to WorldCon Montreal -- if any fellow Webderlanders are going and would like to get together, my email is above, or use the Voodoo Board at WorldCon.
Neil Gaiman is guest of honor, so should be fun.

Mary
Posts: 44
Joined: Sat May 26, 2012 6:24 pm

Postby Mary » Fri Jul 31, 2009 7:55 am

Name: Mary
Source: unca20091007.htm
Here I am folks, still unemployed, but I know I'll be okay. I have sunk into doldrums for too long, so it's time to pick up spirits and move forward. Yes, I'm disappointed that the photography place didn't call me, but it ain't the end of the world. I shall keep going. A cafe mocha from Starbuck's is a good way to begin.

By the way Rick...your work here is muchly appreciated. I know you have to sift through the "foolishness of it all" as Niecy Nash would say and take care of certain posts that take it too far...So I send forth a big thank you, and hope your day goes well.

And to all, the same...it's Friday people! Break out the margaritas!

Mary
Posts: 44
Joined: Sat May 26, 2012 6:24 pm

Postby Mary » Fri Jul 31, 2009 7:55 am

Name: Mary
Source: unca20091009.htm
Here I am folks, still unemployed, but I know I'll be okay. I have sunk into doldrums for too long, so it's time to pick up spirits and move forward. Yes, I'm disappointed that the photography place didn't call me, but it ain't the end of the world. I shall keep going. A cafe mocha from Starbuck's is a good way to begin.

By the way Rick...your work here is muchly appreciated. I know you have to sift through the "foolishness of it all" as Niecy Nash would say and take care of certain posts that take it too far...So I send forth a big thank you, and hope your day goes well.

And to all, the same...it's Friday people! Break out the margaritas!

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Samuel John Klein
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Postby Samuel John Klein » Fri Jul 31, 2009 9:06 am

Name: Samuel John Klein
Source: unca20091007.htm
MARY: We're still pulling for you. Good that you keep a positive outlook. Have you tried calling them?

MR CARLSON: I often wonder what people like you think, the way you trot out the same old, tired, worn out dog and pony to try to scare us into reacting. Those dogs hunted last time when the Republican party slimed the attempt by the Clintons to give us something better. They aren't working any more. Socialism is no longer a dirty word. There are no long lines in countries with National Health Care, there are no Canadians having to wait months, and right now, you have people whose mission is to deny people care (for each dollar not spent to help a sick person is one that goes into the pockets of very rich CEOs) between you and your doctor. Actually, having the government instead would be an improvment.

Put simply, many of us don't believe your bullflop anymore. Peddle it on FreeRepublic, where people will pick up what it is you're putting down. That you flopped it over here sort of indicates just what sort of respect you have for the populace here (none, that is to say).

Oh, I had something to say about Harlan's work, but you've just made me mad, spilling your slop and making your mess like you did there. I'm bone-tired of getting lied to. Next time you decide to speak, please do more than copy and past from Republican talking-points, won't you?

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Samuel John Klein
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Postby Samuel John Klein » Fri Jul 31, 2009 9:06 am

Name: Samuel John Klein
Source: unca20091009.htm
MARY: We're still pulling for you. Good that you keep a positive outlook. Have you tried calling them?

MR CARLSON: I often wonder what people like you think, the way you trot out the same old, tired, worn out dog and pony to try to scare us into reacting. Those dogs hunted last time when the Republican party slimed the attempt by the Clintons to give us something better. They aren't working any more. Socialism is no longer a dirty word. There are no long lines in countries with National Health Care, there are no Canadians having to wait months, and right now, you have people whose mission is to deny people care (for each dollar not spent to help a sick person is one that goes into the pockets of very rich CEOs) between you and your doctor. Actually, having the government instead would be an improvment.

Put simply, many of us don't believe your bullflop anymore. Peddle it on FreeRepublic, where people will pick up what it is you're putting down. That you flopped it over here sort of indicates just what sort of respect you have for the populace here (none, that is to say).

Oh, I had something to say about Harlan's work, but you've just made me mad, spilling your slop and making your mess like you did there. I'm bone-tired of getting lied to. Next time you decide to speak, please do more than copy and past from Republican talking-points, won't you?

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AlexKrislov
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Catching up

Postby AlexKrislov » Fri Jul 31, 2009 9:37 am

Name: Alex Krislov
Source: unca20091007.htm
Boy, I wish I could come to WorldCon. This is the second year in a row my wife and I have been sidelined by health issues, and only in the damned Summer! Why can't this stuff take place in Winter, when it sucks to go anywhere anyway?

And, yeah, I want to see Obamacare come in. My wife went on disabiity this year. After the tsouris of switching from my wife's health insurance as a teacher to COBRA, and then from COBRA to the State Teacher Retirement System insurance, we are spending half our time fielding rejected insurance claims.
All three insurance setups were from the same insurer. But the bills keep getting routed to the wrong "group number." In other words, the insurer is rejecting bills based on their dates, and then accepting them when they're resubmitted to a different group number on the _same plan._ This is bureaucracy with a vengeance.

And to Cliff: I'll look forward to that Gene Colan book. I've got two Colan originals, one a gift from Marv Wolfman, the other from Steve Gerber. They're among my most treasured possessions. God, can that man draw.






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AlexKrislov
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Catching up

Postby AlexKrislov » Fri Jul 31, 2009 9:37 am

Name: Alex Krislov
Source: unca20091009.htm
Boy, I wish I could come to WorldCon. This is the second year in a row my wife and I have been sidelined by health issues, and only in the damned Summer! Why can't this stuff take place in Winter, when it sucks to go anywhere anyway?

And, yeah, I want to see Obamacare come in. My wife went on disabiity this year. After the tsouris of switching from my wife's health insurance as a teacher to COBRA, and then from COBRA to the State Teacher Retirement System insurance, we are spending half our time fielding rejected insurance claims.
All three insurance setups were from the same insurer. But the bills keep getting routed to the wrong "group number." In other words, the insurer is rejecting bills based on their dates, and then accepting them when they're resubmitted to a different group number on the _same plan._ This is bureaucracy with a vengeance.

And to Cliff: I'll look forward to that Gene Colan book. I've got two Colan originals, one a gift from Marv Wolfman, the other from Steve Gerber. They're among my most treasured possessions. God, can that man draw.






Adam-Troy
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Except

Postby Adam-Troy » Fri Jul 31, 2009 10:01 am

Name: Adam-Troy Castro
Source: unca20091007.htm
I know someone who went to an emergency room in France, because of food poisoning. Not even a resident, but a tourist. They took care of him. They hospitalized him for days. He was cared for and he was released. Don't give me this nonsense about socialized medicine "working nowhere," not when the corporate provider used by my fully insured father just tried to boot him from the hospital with only twenty-four hours of notice, despite the protests of the hospital staff and all the doctors working on him, that he still couldn't walk worth a damn and still needed more in-patient care. My mother had to spend a full day on the phone pleading with people who would have gotten a bonus to send him home an invalid, and got a grudging 3- week extension which, itself, may not be enough. My wife has a condition that her doctors want to treat but cannot, because the insurance company tells us that the tests are frivolous. La-de-da, I want a bone scan. How silly of me. And we're INSURED. It's worse than that for the millions who aren't. Threatening us with the prospect of an evil government saying yes and no is a pathetic joke, when there IS somebody acting like big brother, one who acts out of the profit motive, paying only token obeisance to need. Our health care system RIGHT NOW ranks fiftieth in the world, behind that of all the leading industrialized countries and even some nations in what we would call the third world; attacking Obama for seeing that this is a national disgrace and trying to do something about it cuts no ice with me.

Adam-Troy
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Except

Postby Adam-Troy » Fri Jul 31, 2009 10:01 am

Name: Adam-Troy Castro
Source: unca20091009.htm
I know someone who went to an emergency room in France, because of food poisoning. Not even a resident, but a tourist. They took care of him. They hospitalized him for days. He was cared for and he was released. Don't give me this nonsense about socialized medicine "working nowhere," not when the corporate provider used by my fully insured father just tried to boot him from the hospital with only twenty-four hours of notice, despite the protests of the hospital staff and all the doctors working on him, that he still couldn't walk worth a damn and still needed more in-patient care. My mother had to spend a full day on the phone pleading with people who would have gotten a bonus to send him home an invalid, and got a grudging 3- week extension which, itself, may not be enough. My wife has a condition that her doctors want to treat but cannot, because the insurance company tells us that the tests are frivolous. La-de-da, I want a bone scan. How silly of me. And we're INSURED. It's worse than that for the millions who aren't. Threatening us with the prospect of an evil government saying yes and no is a pathetic joke, when there IS somebody acting like big brother, one who acts out of the profit motive, paying only token obeisance to need. Our health care system RIGHT NOW ranks fiftieth in the world, behind that of all the leading industrialized countries and even some nations in what we would call the third world; attacking Obama for seeing that this is a national disgrace and trying to do something about it cuts no ice with me.

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FrankChurch
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Postby FrankChurch » Fri Jul 31, 2009 11:00 am

Name: Frank Church
Source: unca20091007.htm
I'm sorry, but we have to blame Obama on this healthcare fight. He has done a really bad job at explaining, in plain english what he wants to do. Then you have this thousand page bill that nobody sane can read because it is full of lawyer speak garble. Tell us the skinny, if not, then the far right wins. Scaring people does work.

---------------

All Obama has to do is say that other countries have higher life expectancy rates and that infant mortality is worse here than any first world country.

Our Aids rates are shocking. We are number 68, close to some third world countries like Honduras, even though our education on Aids has been pretty good--at least in the gay community. It is going crazy in the black community--a form of medical lynching.

Where did I get this information? The CIA factbook. Yea, that CIA.

---------------

O'Reilly went off on Bill Maher, who said on CNN that America was a dumb country. O'Reilly made the point that Sarah Palin went to college and that she had a 54 percent approval rating in Alaska, unlike Duval Patrick, whos rating is under 40. He also showed that a lot of Americans go to college, proving we are not a dumb country.

People may not be dumb, but they are ignorant, a difference, but quite important.

Thankfully you guys have me to keep you informed...lol

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FrankChurch
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Postby FrankChurch » Fri Jul 31, 2009 11:00 am

Name: Frank Church
Source: unca20091009.htm
I'm sorry, but we have to blame Obama on this healthcare fight. He has done a really bad job at explaining, in plain english what he wants to do. Then you have this thousand page bill that nobody sane can read because it is full of lawyer speak garble. Tell us the skinny, if not, then the far right wins. Scaring people does work.

---------------

All Obama has to do is say that other countries have higher life expectancy rates and that infant mortality is worse here than any first world country.

Our Aids rates are shocking. We are number 68, close to some third world countries like Honduras, even though our education on Aids has been pretty good--at least in the gay community. It is going crazy in the black community--a form of medical lynching.

Where did I get this information? The CIA factbook. Yea, that CIA.

---------------

O'Reilly went off on Bill Maher, who said on CNN that America was a dumb country. O'Reilly made the point that Sarah Palin went to college and that she had a 54 percent approval rating in Alaska, unlike Duval Patrick, whos rating is under 40. He also showed that a lot of Americans go to college, proving we are not a dumb country.

People may not be dumb, but they are ignorant, a difference, but quite important.

Thankfully you guys have me to keep you informed...lol


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