Pavilion Digest: May 2009

A plethora of perplexing pavilion posts. The Pavilion Annex thread, the Pavilion Discussion thread, and monthly digests of all messages from the Pavilion.

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Semi-Writer
Posts: 92
Joined: Sat May 26, 2012 6:24 pm

And the world goes a little more nuts...

Postby Semi-Writer » Sun May 31, 2009 11:18 am

Name: Semi-Writer
Source: unca20090603.htm
Doctor George Tiller is dead. Gunned down at church, with his wife nearby. Talk about racking up the sins, baby--the killer aborted God in favor of man's justice. The very institution that anti-abortion advocates rely on to support their stance, and the moral and religious groundwork of their arguments, has now been turned into just another killing field. Go humans go.

God. Or G_d, if you prefer. Or IHVH, JHVH, YHVH, JHWH... or, get this: apparently the Catholic church is saying that you can't use the name "Abba" verbally. That's too sacred to utter. Pity the Swedish pop group from here on out.

Back in L.A. now. Grandma's funeral went well, with the usual moments of dark humor that those of Irish descent embrace. I'll spare you the details on a few things (you might be eating right now). But she chose to be buried with her head to the East, whereas Grandpa rests in the opposite direction next to her--need I remark on what two numbers came to mind in regards to their respective positions? Huh. And here, I never thought them to be kinky...

And Susan and Harlan, a HERC request is on the way.

shagin
Posts: 195
Joined: Fri Sep 08, 2006 2:58 pm
Location: Bremerton, WA

Casual Ellisonisms

Postby shagin » Sun May 31, 2009 12:09 pm

Name: shagin
Source: unca20090603.htm
Harlan Ellison is now a pick-up line. I took the boys to the park after school one day last week and Young Jackanapes made the acquaintance of a girl his age. They chased, teased, and flirted outrageously and I gave them their space out of respect for YJ's "manliness, Mom". Ahem...

And what should I hear in passing as I walked to the parking lot? "Yeah, I'm in the seventh grade, I write science fiction mainly. Do you know Harlan Ellison? I write stuff like he does. He's a friend of mine."

***

I let my brother listen to "the chandelier story" from one of the volumes of On The Road With Ellison (the exact volume escapes me at the moment). He was by turns horrified, amazed, and disgusted. "Do people really believe that shit? I mean, didn't anybody stop to think that if he even managed to do that they'd throw his ass in jail?"

***

I'm rereading "Xenogenesis" (Gah! Am I guilty of the same insensitivity in the name of good intentions?). It brought to mind a recent phone conversation with a musician friend of mine who railed at obsessive fans who shouted out punchlines during shows, who helpfully told how they copied his albums to "share" with friends, and called him in the wee hours of morning to tell him ideas for songs.


shagin

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Harlan Ellison
Harlan Fucking Ellison
Posts: 847
Joined: Mon Jul 14, 2003 10:24 am

Postby Harlan Ellison » Sun May 31, 2009 12:39 pm

Name: HARLAN ELLISON
Source: unca20090603.htm

KATE:

Your post, glistening with toasted-just-right goodwill, hit me at precisely the nanosecond it would do optimum good. A very special thankyou back atcha, as I dimple prettily and curtsey.

Yr. Pal, Harlan

Alan
Posts: 15
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2007 9:51 pm

I'm running out of wall space.

Postby Alan » Sun May 31, 2009 12:48 pm

Name: alan
Source: unca20090603.htm
Just found my ebay purchased set of Gustove Dore' prints of E.A. Poes RAVEN at the P.O. Box. Life is good,very good.
Now if I can only find the original over size RAVEN publication from 1800's life would be cherry indeed.

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Harlan Ellison
Harlan Fucking Ellison
Posts: 847
Joined: Mon Jul 14, 2003 10:24 am

Postby Harlan Ellison » Sun May 31, 2009 12:56 pm

Name: HARLAN ELLISON
Source: unca20090603.htm

The murder of Dr. George Tiller is more ghastly and nauseating a denunciation of the putrescent "pro-life" monsters than a sane mind can contain.

Harlan

Roger Gjovig
Posts: 49
Joined: Sat May 26, 2012 7:03 pm

Postby Roger Gjovig » Sun May 31, 2009 1:15 pm

Name: Roger Gjovig
Source: unca20090603.htm
Frank why do you make such ridiculous comments when you know there are those of us it does hurt? No wonder you have to apologize so often.

shagin
Posts: 195
Joined: Fri Sep 08, 2006 2:58 pm
Location: Bremerton, WA

Second Post Without Apologies

Postby shagin » Sun May 31, 2009 1:30 pm

Name: shagin
Source: unca20090603.htm
HARLAN - You mean the murder that has lead certain pro-life supporters to wish God's graces and presence for Dr. Tiller's family and friends, but not for the doctor himself?

I am pro-choice. I chose not to have an abortion, and I chose to support women's health and rights the world over.


Sandra

Alan
Posts: 15
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2007 9:51 pm

Florida turning into the New Centurians.

Postby Alan » Sun May 31, 2009 1:32 pm

Name: alan
Source: unca20090603.htm
I feel the compassion of the madness Harlan.In florida the back log of gun permits are 8 months behind and growing.The State tried once before to encourage home owners to apply and take part in defense of neighborhoods but before they realized the corruption they stirred up the organized crime elements of Tarpon Springs and Tampa especially had already applied three fold over common citizens the law was aimed at.I myself carry Shuriken Stars in a leather case for those special public gatherings;better something than nothing.

Alan
Posts: 15
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2007 9:51 pm

To clarify my directive.

Postby Alan » Sun May 31, 2009 3:29 pm

Name: alan
Source: unca20090603.htm
What I mean is I feel the compassion in your voice Harlan not the maniacs that gun down unarmed people.We are delivered as sheep to the slaughter.I know your anti-gun stance which is very passionate but not in step with history of settling the Frontier which I think we have slowly drifted back into lawless maniacal states of viciousness.I don't own a gun and don't want one but I feel a degree safer knowing my neighbor or the table next to me in a restaurant might come to my aid if a lunatic brandishes a weapon.I say that knowing UK have data confirming safety of no guns allowed policy but they and us are very different in our makeups of society at large.I am for assault weapons and explosives removed from back alley sales.Certainly I am for gun manufacturers to be sued for their products when they are in the wrong hands of criminals;this may be the only way to guarantee tracking conformity from these greedy swines.Would you not agree if criminals about to commit a violent crime suspect there might be a show down with another gun most will move to another opportunity less dangerous?

Dima
Posts: 18
Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2003 3:24 pm

Dr. George Tiller

Postby Dima » Sun May 31, 2009 5:27 pm

Name: Dima
Source: unca20090603.htm
Ah shit - I've seen Dr. Tiller lecture several times at my professional conferences, and this is terrible news indeed. I don't know what to say. I hope at the very least that a national dialogue is triggered by this crime. It's truly shameful to see what state this country is still in in 2009. I think he had a couple of younger doctors he was training, so I hope someone takes over his clinic and keeps it going.

Dima

BrianSiano
Posts: 386
Joined: Wed May 21, 2003 3:42 pm
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Contact:

Outrages Great and Small

Postby BrianSiano » Sun May 31, 2009 9:14 pm

Name: Brian Siano
Source: unca20090603.htm
_Salon_ has an angry piece about the campaign waged by Bill O'Eeilly against Dr. George Tiller, who was murdered the other day in his church in Kansas. O'Reilly, whose ignorance, stupidity, and craven evil really needs no more proof at this point, has spent 28 episodes of his show decrying Tiller as a Nazi baby-kiler who performed abortions almost as a fetish.

http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2009/ ... index.html

There are more than enough annoying questions here, the least of which is "Why is a hateful, violent-midned, delusional thug like Bill O'Reilly allowed on the airwaves?" Or, more to the point,"Why is Bill O'Reilly allowed to live?" This is a question that indicates a severe problem with our culture. Bill O'Reilly can spend hours of airtime smearing a doctor as the moral equivalent of a Nazi, a terrorist, or Charles Manson, and when one of his viewers takes him at his word and murders the man, O'Reilly will bear no responsibility. One would have to be brain-damaged to _not_ know that there are anti-abortion creeps with weapons and a deep desire to use them on humans, so O'Reilly is-- by any reasonable standard-- well aware that, eventually, someone would go gunning for Tiller. In fact, someone already _had_, years ago. But O'Reilly will insist he bears no responsibility for the man's murder, and he won't face a moment of inconvenience over the matter.

But if you or I were to organize a similar campaign against Bill O'Reilly-- say, if we were to promote an image of him as the worst human being since Stalin-- I'm sure we'd have legions of morons, and maybe some law enforcement people, knocking at our doors and asking us why we're trying to get this shithead killed. Let me spell this out. Bill O'Reilly can incite murder, with impunity; few others have this privilege.

So let me make this absolutely clear. If someone were to murder Bill O'Reilly tomorrow, I would agree that it was a bad thing to do. But that's only because I have a sense of ethics and morality. If someone _were_ to murder Bill O'Reilly tomorrow, he'd deserve it, and I wouldn't shed a tear for his worthless carcass. But I'd have to admit that it would be _wrong_. It'd be morally fitting, sure, and satisfy my contempt for the man, and amount to a rough form of justice... but I would not support it. All I ask is that the ability to incite murder _not_ be granted to right-wing fuckheads.

And while we're talking about privilege... well, I don't want to hear Christians yelping about how insulting it is when we denounce them, because of the "radical few" who inflict violence. A handful of Muslim fanatics wiped out several million square feet of Manhattan office space... and we spent a few years wondering if that entire religion encouraged horrific violence against infidels. Christian maniacs murder doctors in this country... and Christians really _never_ have to worry about the government keeping an eye on them because of their religion.

The issue of Christian privilege ties in with other measures of privilege. As a white male, I have some advantages that others who aren't don't. (I don't feel _bad_ for having these, but it'd be dishonest to deny them.) And in discussions of privilege, there are many checklists and questions available that illuminate what can be hidden areas. For example, if you can say "I do not have to educate my children to be aware of systemic racism for their own daily physical protection," that's not a bad indicator that you've got something of an advantage.

I should mention that there are _lots_ of these checklists for a _lot_ of groups. Many are created in response to others, so there can be a flavor of oppression-one-upsmanship. Also, the questions range from profound to really trivial issues; after a while, one expects to see items like "I do not have to worry about insulting stereotypes of my ethnicity on breakfast food packaging." But there's always a core of important stuff at work here.

At http://www.tanenbaum.org/christian_privilege.pdf, you can find a nifty discussion of Christian privilege. The checklist included here is of mixed usefulness, however. It will certainly make it clear to non-Christians that Christians enjoy profound privileges. But part of an ethnic or religious identity now requires a belief in one's own oppression. For example, if you ask Christians if they believe that "I do not need to educate my children to be aware of religious persecution for their own daily physical and emotional protection," many would _disagree_, since they'd regard the teaching of Evolution, or even the separation of Church and State, as a form of persecution.

But one useful question might be this: "If the news reports on a fanatic of my religion committing a murder, I do not have to worry about others suspecting me or my entire religion of murderousness."




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