Pavilion Digest: May 2009

A plethora of perplexing pavilion posts. The Pavilion Annex thread, the Pavilion Discussion thread, and monthly digests of all messages from the Pavilion.

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Sara Slaymaker
Posts: 101
Joined: Sat Jun 12, 2010 12:37 pm

Postby Sara Slaymaker » Sun May 24, 2009 7:02 am

Name: Sara Slaymaker
Source: unca20090603.htm
DTS: I'm not sure I missed the point as much as I didn't agree with it - but no matter. If you would like to pursue this debate in another forum, I'd be happy to oblige - otherwise, I'm happy to allow you the last word and will contact Sharon about the book.

SUSAN ELLISON: I am sorry I missed your call. The offer stands - if you need me any time in the future, I am here.

HARLAN: as for the New Yorker - as my dearly departed mother-in-law used to say, "they don't know what's good". Fuck 'em.

Alisha Autumn

Lio

Postby Alisha Autumn » Sun May 24, 2009 7:45 am

Name: Alisha Autumn
Source: unca20090603.htm
SHAGIN - Thank you for sharing Lio! It is absolutlely delightful.

If anyone else is interested in viewing some samples of the Lio comic, head over to the Universal Press Syndicate webpage here:
http://www.amuniversal.com/ups/features/lio/index.htm

~Alisha

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FrankChurch
Posts: 16283
Joined: Wed May 28, 2003 2:19 pm

Postby FrankChurch » Sun May 24, 2009 8:20 am

Name: Frank Church
Source: unca20090603.htm
Goddamn New Yorker! Harlan, so sorry. The beat does go on, but the beatdowns last.



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Chuck Messer
Posts: 2089
Joined: Wed May 21, 2003 9:15 pm
Location: Lakewood, Colorado

Postby Chuck Messer » Sun May 24, 2009 9:51 am

Name: Chuck Messer
Source: unca20090603.htm
Well, I guess the New Yorker didn't think Harlan's story fit their publication. I haven't read the NY in ages. Not sure why, but it just didn't do it for me. I hope the new story finds a good home, soon. I'm betting it will.


Good luck at the funeral, Semi.

Chuck

Dennis C
Posts: 105
Joined: Sat May 26, 2012 6:23 pm

Nuts to the New Yorker

Postby Dennis C » Sun May 24, 2009 9:55 am

Name: Dennis C
Source: unca20090603.htm
That's why I don't read the New Yorker any more

Tim Richmond
Posts: 10
Joined: Fri Jul 04, 2003 12:36 pm

Postby Tim Richmond » Sun May 24, 2009 10:18 am

Name: Tim Richmond
Source: unca20090603.htm
Harlan & Susan:
Thanks for the goodies and info and ... Sorry for not getting to you sooner, I've been out on tiles still dealing with Mom. I will of course give to you a call this week! Take care Tim

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Harlan Ellison
Harlan Fucking Ellison
Posts: 847
Joined: Mon Jul 14, 2003 10:24 am

RE: THE NEW YORKER

Postby Harlan Ellison » Sun May 24, 2009 11:51 am

Name: HARLAN ELLISON
Source: unca20090603.htm
Disappointed...yeah, sure I am.

Pissed-off, angry, fulminating, suicidally preening for vengeance...no, absolutely not even a scosh. I'm down with it.

I've been trying to sell a story to The New Yorker since 1954; if my calculations are correct, that would be five years more than half a century.

Reports on the editorial scrutiny were promising. The story went in via the Good Offices of a friend who had a direct connection to someone on the masthead; and it was enhanced by my NY literary agent, who followed up. The story--as reactions were conveyed to me--had made a good impression on everyone who saw it. So the weeks passed. Then, obviously, someone simply said "no."

Why, I have no idea. The bounce note my agent received was very
bland, as I had it read to me. Not much passion for or agin the story: just a sort of pro forma no-thank-you, a half dozen steps up from a printed stock turnaway, of the same sort I got when I was first starting my career. So I did what one must never do...I took the long silence between submission and rejection as more than enough stardust for me to get my hopes up.

But, finally, in an editorial vetting, in a system where anyone along the way can say "no," but only one can say "yes," the last person to read it, bounced it.

That's the way this game works, friends. It is yes or no. This time the answer, finally, no matter how many other eyes saw and recommended, it reached someone who said "no," for whatever his/her reasons may have been.

That's the way the game is played, folks. After 50+ years, through bunches of readers at The New Yorker, I go back to the place I began. And I truly can live okay without that small triumph in my vita. Whatever your feelings about what The New Yorker DOES publish, it is an outstanding magazine, and to have been acceptable to its staff would've been an "at last!" I'd have loved to experience.

So please, as I say, I'm condign with the knowledge that one way or another, free of animus, The New Yorker has once more politely decided not to include me in its pages. No letters or e.mails or phone calls to the magazine, as suggested earlier,
would do any good, and likely would pollute my chances for a future assessment.

And to be fair about this, my brethren, only three or four people pre-New Yorker, have read "How Interesting: A Tiny Man"
and you're assuming this is a good story unjustly slapped away by feckless androids at a venue that has become too snooty or somewhichway beyond YOUR range of What They Oughtta Be Publishing. That ain't fair. So please do not "act in my behalf," because I am sadly content to accept the obvious truth: The New Yorker and I are as oil and water.

Yr. Pal, Harlan

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Harlan Ellison
Harlan Fucking Ellison
Posts: 847
Joined: Mon Jul 14, 2003 10:24 am

RE: THE NEW YORKER

Postby Harlan Ellison » Sun May 24, 2009 12:17 pm

Name: HARLAN ELLISON
Source: unca20090603.htm
Disappointed...yeah, sure I am.

Pissed-off, angry, fulminating, suicidally preening for vengeance...no, absolutely not even a scosh. I'm down with it.

I've been trying to sell a story to The New Yorker since 1954; if my calculations are correct, that would be five years more than half a century.

Reports on the editorial scrutiny were promising. The story went in via the Good Offices of a friend who had a direct connection to someone on the masthead; and it was enhanced by my NY literary agent, who followed up. The story--as reactions were conveyed to me--had made a good impression on everyone who saw it. So the weeks passed. Then, obviously, someone simply said "no."

Why, I have no idea. The bounce note my agent received was very
bland, as I had it read to me. Not much passion for or agin the story: just a sort of pro forma no-thank-you, a half dozen steps up from a printed stock turnaway, of the same sort I got when I was first starting my career. So I did what one must never do...I took the long silence between submission and rejection as more than enough stardust for me to get my hopes up.

But, finally, in an editorial vetting, in a system where anyone along the way can say "no," but only one can say "yes," the last person to read it, bounced it.

That's the way this game works, friends. It is yes or no. This time the answer, finally, no matter how many other eyes saw and recommended, it reached someone who said "no," for whatever his/her reasons may have been.

That's the way the game is played, folks. After 50+ years, through bunches of readers at The New Yorker, I go back to the place I began. And I truly can live okay without that small triumph in my vita. Whatever your feelings about what The New Yorker DOES publish, it is an outstanding magazine, and to have been acceptable to its staff would've been an "at last!" I'd have loved to experience.

So please, as I say, I'm condign with the knowledge that one way or another, free of animus, The New Yorker has once more politely decided not to include me in its pages. No letters or e.mails or phone calls to the magazine, as suggested earlier,
would do any good, and likely would pollute my chances for a future assessment.

And to be fair about this, my brethren, only three or four people pre-New Yorker, have read "How Interesting: A Tiny Man"
and you're assuming this is a good story unjustly slapped away by feckless androids at a venue that has become too snooty or somewhichway beyond YOUR range of What They Oughtta Be Publishing. That ain't fair. So please do not "act in my behalf," because I am sadly content to accept the obvious truth: The New Yorker and I are as oil and water.

Yr. Pal, Harlan

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robochrist
Posts: 3426
Joined: Sun Jun 06, 2004 1:30 pm

THE SKINNIN'

Postby robochrist » Sun May 24, 2009 2:09 pm

Name: Rob
Source: unca20090603.htm
Harlan,

I have to express my gratitude - even though it is overtly out of self-interest - when you share "outtakes" here from your business.

Regardless of the medium or field each among the creative types here forge, we can ALL empathize with that rejection slip, and the consternation we feel when it's a useless condescending imprimatur"no thanks" sans any explanation .

The professional novice can easily grow insecure after investing so much into his or her material. It isn't the rejection I object to personally - I've done lots of stuff many among friends and pros have both liked and disliked with equal measure; and that's never a problem for me; in fact, I'm my own toughest critic, BELIEVE me! - but the absence of even the briefest explanation ("it's too explicit", "it's too dark", "it's too grungy", "it's not pretty enough...we want PRETTY") USED to get me incredibly angry. For obvious reasons, I always wanted to know what the problem was. I mean even Simon Cowell gives a brief reason for the nix. Fortunately, I've grown wiser about it over time.

Thus, when someone seasoned like Harlan Ellison has an experience like that, it helps many of us understand the nature of the game. And THAT offers the inner arsenal we need to build a thick professional skin!

By the way, I hope someone picks up your new story soon. I really want to see it!

BrianSiano
Posts: 386
Joined: Wed May 21, 2003 3:42 pm
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Contact:

New Yorker

Postby BrianSiano » Sun May 24, 2009 5:59 pm

Name: Brian Siano
Source: unca20090603.htm
All I could think of was "Happens to the best of us," which is true, but it don't mean much coming from _me_ and it _sho_ ain't gonna console our host none.

Oil and water. That says it. And we'll read the story, eventually, no matter where it's published.



James P. Levy

Editing used to be a process

Postby James P. Levy » Sun May 24, 2009 6:10 pm

Name: James P. Levy
Source: unca20090603.htm
Our host has shown the good sense of a seasoned professional and rightly, I would guess, chalked up his rejection by the New Yorker to the approval process and not his story. However, being an editor used to be a profession in which one worked with writers to gain a finished product. Given Harlan's status as a bona fide great American short story writer, somebody should have enunciated their objections and, as a courtesty to a fifty year publishing phenom, delivered more than a boilerplate "thank you ever so much, but no thank you." If the story is not flawed, they should have published it. If it is in their estimation flawed in some way, they should have talked about it with an author as accomplished as Harlan Ellison.

Good manners never hurt anybody, even the editors of The New Yorker. Harlan is too good a pro to think they owe him a place in their magazine, but one can argue that he has earned some professional courtesy.

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robochrist
Posts: 3426
Joined: Sun Jun 06, 2004 1:30 pm

Postby robochrist » Sun May 24, 2009 6:51 pm

Name: Rob
Source: unca20090603.htm
" Given Harlan's status as a bona fide great American short story writer, somebody should have enunciated their objections and, as a courtesty to a fifty year publishing phenom, "

ABSOLUTELY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



john zeock
Posts: 167
Joined: Sat May 26, 2012 6:30 pm

new yorker

Postby john zeock » Sun May 24, 2009 8:03 pm

Name: john zeock
Source: unca20090603.htm
Harlan-sorry that your day in the New Yorker won't happen just yet but I know it will happen soon. I do think that James Levy makes a valid point. I have been a reader of the magazine nearly as long as I've been reading you and I am fond of it. It reminds me of the time not so long ago but, sadly, never to come back, when you could walk down Chestnut street or Walnut and go south on 12th or 8th or wherever and there would be Harlan's Shoppe or Zeock's Books, quirky places that maybe sold art deco radios or Ace Doubles or Eversharp fountain pens. The sort of shops that would turn up in a John Collier or Robert Sheckley short story or start the scene of a Thorne Smith novel. The New Yorker doesn't have as much of its inner Elwood P. Dowd as it once did but there's enough and like Robert Ryan at the end of The Wild Bunch we remember and make do. And you'll be there, Harlan.

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Jan
Posts: 1817
Joined: Thu Aug 19, 2004 2:25 pm
Location: Köln

Postby Jan » Sun May 24, 2009 10:12 pm

Name: Jan
Source: unca20090603.htm
Nothing against the content of The New Yorker, but it seems to me that they shouldn't make literature free.

For those who still haven't ordered, the Dreams DVD will be released tomorrow and the best price online is $16.71 from DeepDiscount.com. (Free US shipping. $5.95 shipping for those of us who live in the remote areas of the world.)

The allmovie guide review mentions that "Ellison resembles the late actor George Grizzard as he looked and sounded from the 1960s to the 21st century". Is that a good thing?
www.allmovie.com/dvd/dreams-with-sharp-teeth-214589

VideoHound's Golden Movie Retriever: "At its best, pic provides a view of the creative world of one of the most renowned popular writers of our time." (3 bones out of 4)

STARLOG: www.starlog.com/component/content/artic ... log-review

There are many more reviews but I'm sure Creative is keeping track of them. On the other hand...

IGN likes the film ok but is not overly satisfied with the technical aspects of the DVD. Eat that, Nelson!
http://uk.dvd.ign.com/articles/985/985614p1.html

Good quote from Edmonton Journal: "...imagine watching an episode of Jerry Springer with really smart, literate people. That's what this movie feels like..."
www2.canada.com/edmontonjournal/news/story.html?id=3b027cb5-4ae3-497a-b698-cf1b86de28f2

JMS spoke at the annual Julius Schwartz Lecture at MIT. Apparently he's involved in at least three films: Ninja Assassin (Wachowski), World War Z (zombie movie), and Lensman (Ron Howard). http://jducoeur.livejournal.com/517679.html

Blackstone has a date for Voice from the Edge 3 - Oct 1.
http://www.blackstoneaudio.com/audiobook.cfm?id=5407

Jack Skillingstead
Posts: 79
Joined: Sat May 26, 2012 6:32 pm

HARLAN'S STORY

Postby Jack Skillingstead » Sun May 24, 2009 10:20 pm

Name: Jack Skillingstead
Source: unca20090603.htm
I guess I'm one of the "three or four" people who read the story pre-New Yorker. I have to say I really love the thing. Certainly it would not have disgraced the pages of that magazine. But none of that matters. As Harlan well knows, you write them and you send them out. That's it. Personally, I tried to crack F&SF for around 25 years before I finally made it, just this Spring. You could even say I had my eye on that particular market for almost FORTY years. Harlan is a great short story writer. Just fucking great. A given market isn't always on top of it.


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