Pavilion Digest: April 2009

A plethora of perplexing pavilion posts. The Pavilion Annex thread, the Pavilion Discussion thread, and monthly digests of all messages from the Pavilion.

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Harlan Ellison
Harlan Fucking Ellison
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Postby Harlan Ellison » Fri Apr 10, 2009 12:31 pm

Source: unca20090603.htm
Whoo-eee, Sonny!

Almost more data than we can handle, but we're trying to unravel everything. Thank you for the year on GRUSEl #18; now if we had even a rough idea of the month...

One thing I do need, and you being in Germany makes you the easiest node of responsible answer. My German agent has been, for years, Thomas Schluck. But when I called him today, to get some fill-in information, his phone number--it's been the same forever and a day--just rang and rang. No answer.

Is Thom still in business?

Is there a new number, perhaps?

Querulously, Harlan

(And if I haven't said it sufficiently, buhbie, thanksamillion.)

Phil Nichols
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No-response Germany

Postby Phil Nichols » Fri Apr 10, 2009 12:41 pm

Name: Phil Nichols
Source: unca20090603.htm

today (Good Friday) is a public holiday in Germany (and the UK and other parts of the EU. This might explain your agent's lack of response.

(Sorry for butting in; thought Jan might not be online right now.)

- Phil

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Postby Moderator » Fri Apr 10, 2009 12:52 pm

Name: Steve Barber
Source: unca20090603.htm

TONY - It it almost amusing to note that Liberals are being associated with Fascism. Obviously, *somebody* doesn't understand one of the two terms they're bandying about.

In fact, it WOULD be amusing if it weren't as a result of such nasty sentiment.

SARAH - I neglected to thank you for your kind words re: my wife's music. She'd gotten a mediocre review just that day and you got a smile. For that along I appreciate the comment. (Cris' newest CD, deliberately more commercial than the last two, is not to everyone's taste. On the other hand, it IS selling better, so therein lies the rub.)

Only the business folks will appreciate the madness in my life right now: Three global RFPs being worked simultaneously. One of them involves a household brand name, and has a one-week turnaround.

Can you say "AAAAAAAAAaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa...!" without smiling???

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Postby Jan » Fri Apr 10, 2009 1:25 pm

Name: Jan
Source: unca20090603.htm
What Phil says. - "Kontakt"
No one knows the publication months. There's a book about the pulps in Germany, but when it comes to that publisher there really isn't much anybody knows. (For the record, I misspelled Anne Erber-Verlag earlier. She married Wolfhart Luther and they later moved to Switzerland, according to rumor.)
I presume you want copies of the other relevant issues and paperbacks when I come across them.

Barber, why are you interrupting my conversation with Harlan? Jealousy is a devious thing.

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a reply to Josh Olson's thoughtful musings -- and two postsc

Postby DTS » Fri Apr 10, 2009 1:57 pm

Name: DTS
Source: unca20090603.htm
JOSH OLSON: Hey, Josh, I _absolutely_ agree with your view that one should keep fighting the good fight. My optimistic cynicism shouldn't be misconstrued for surrender. It's merely born out of years (decades) of observing humans and our behavior, and of living amongst American-type humans for most of my life. Having had the chance to live in Europe for a while in the 1980s -- and observe the MUCH more open-minded attitudes (and that was taking into account the racism, etc. which exists in that part of the world) -- and having the chance, right now, to live in this particular part of the Asian/Pacific rim --I won't name the city, cause I promised H(is) E(xcellency) I wouldn't go on about it anymore -- where the level of behavior and interaction amongst the populace reminds me of how it was twenty or twenty-five years ago in America (not perfect, but nearly lightyears ahead of the way we are now in terms of fearfulness, the wisdom of the average joe, and good ol fashioned courtesy and respect) -- I can honestly say that most Americans have become so entrenched in their own willful ignorance and intoerance and day-to-day fear of nearly any and everything, that, for me, the light at the end of the tunnel is VERY small. (Which means that the tunnel which must be passed through -- with no guarantee that it wont collapse on itself while one is making the journey -- is a loooooooooooooong ass tunnel). (After all, in order for the majority to reach enlightenment, they are going to have to shrug off the dogma of years of religion and wrong-headed politics -- as well as the direction of all of those authority figures they relied on, be it mom, dad, a teacher or nun, the priest, or a politician, or lobbyists -- and I wont even try to address the problem of guns in the United States).

I hope the tortured syntax of the next-to-last sentence above (can't use brackets hereabouts) didn't stop you from getting through it. So while I don't share your optimism, I haven't given up on my country (or _many_ of my fellow citizens). As John Irving once wrote in THE HOTEL NEW HAMPSHIRE, the state of the world isn't cause for sophomoric despair.

While I don't share your intense optimism, I DO share your belief that one should continue to fight the good fight, even against overwhelming odds. I'm just happy I have the option to live outside of my country at the moment -- so I don't have to walk the streets of a city (Kansas City, MO) which has one fourth the population of my current hometown (here in Australia), but which had 127 murders notched up on its belt last year. (When I mention that to new neighbors and friends, even the ocassional acquaintance, it boggles their minds). And I'm glad my daughter doesn't have to live in that city anymore. (That doesn't mean there isn't violence and danger over here -- there are plenty of assaults, etc. But my time in Kansas City was bookended by the murder of a mom and her daughter -- by a serial killer -- not more than four miles from my quiet neighborhood, and the drive-by shooting of a man my age who was out jogging at 6 a.m. in the morning, two blocks away from our house -- the kids who shot him were "bored" teenagers who happened across a handgun. The time inbetween those two acts was colored by countless murders, many of them gun-related. And I'm sure it's far worse in L.A.).

yrs in _optimistic_ cynicism,

P.S. Although another writer acquaintence (via internet and letters and such) thinks his site radiates nothing but sophomoric platitudes and emptiness, I find that Roger Ebert's blog ocassionally offers up great conversations and humor. A recent entry about Bill O'Reilly is proof of that pudding: ... /904079997

P.P.S. HARLAN: you DO know I was teasing you regarding the request to note go on and on about Mxxxxxxxe, right? As for His Excellency, well...I figured if Paul Giamatti (as John Adams) could address David Morse (as George Washington) in that manner, it should be good enough for you, too!

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The Fruits Of Our Labour

Postby KOS » Fri Apr 10, 2009 10:00 pm

Name: KOS
Source: unca20090603.htm
Infomite and HE have helped magnificently with my search for the proper fruit. I had been considering either plum or pomegranate. I suspect I will go with the latter, after a bit more research on the history of the fruits, as well as sauces made from each. Many thanks to both advisers.

I like to think, since it cannot hurt to hope, that when the sun goes into failure mode, expanding like a red rubber ball in a microwave oven, that we will have either already (all ready?) moved the earth out to Jupiter's orbit, from where those who care to visit the Auld Sod will have a lovely view of the bloated carcass of Old Sol, or that we will be on so many worlds that we will not even remember exactly where was it we started from?

Kind of wistful, the latter alternative, but there you have it. There is no physical reason we cannot survive and prosper. As for human stupidity: well, yes. Both genius and stupidity are endemic to humanity, and the ratio does not seem to be improving. So we struggle, as we always have. A race between the two, as always. I like to think that inventing the atom bomb at the same time as the electronic computer was one of the great strokes of luck. We got a brain amplifier for the entire bell curve just as the dumb thugs got a world destroyer. A door opens, a door closes. Someone comes to town, someone leaves town.

If you wonder how anyone can be a cockeyed techno-optimist, read this essay on the late Richard Feynman as one datapoint/clue. ... eynman.php
A fine man, William Proud, was a good friend. He was once a nineteen year old radar technician on a US Navy submarine in the Pacific during World War Two, attended Cal Tech on the GI bill right after the war, studied under Feynman, helped design and build the side scan radar that mapped Venus in the eighties from the Magellan spacecraft, and taught me a lessonI needed to know about life when he related the story of how he knocked himself out cold when he shorted out a radar capacitor with a wrench while standing in several inches of salt water on the bridge of a sub. "I came too, and all I could think was "Dear Lord, don't let me die a nineteen year old virgin!"

He loved Feynman, and humanity. Both are worth caring about, and the game is definitely worth the candle.

The "fruit" story has two working titles: "Open House" and "Serving Suggestion". If it sells, I will post a note here as to where it can be found, should any care to "cheggidout".


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Sara Slaymaker
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Postby Sara Slaymaker » Sat Apr 11, 2009 4:59 am

Name: Sara Slaymaker
Source: unca20090603.htm

I love that movie. Not so sure about the movie-Broadway musical-movie of Broadway musical segue (please insert accent here), but there's nothing quite like the original, and inimitable, Mr. Brooks.

Steve Barber: I loves me some good jazz, and your wife is GOOD. I am aiming to buy an album - with which should I start?
Oh, and just for future reference, no h. On the end of my name. No h.

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The Flipped Universe or How far we've come since Watergate

Postby stevendooner » Sat Apr 11, 2009 5:16 am

Name: Steve Dooner
Source: unca20090603.htm
Tony R.: How the universe seems to have flipped since 1970. Even in those dark times of the Vietnam War, there were still a few who respected the rule of law and took on those who illegally wire-tapped. Now superficial things like bowing to a Saudi Arabian prince are signs of "librul fascism," while Constitutional abuses by Bush and Gonzalez are seen as mere trifles.

This could only happen in a society that no longer reads. Those funny little black squiggles in them there books are all just voodoo and hoopla now. BUT an actual visual image of a person bowing to an A-rab is something everone can see and scream about.

In our increasingly video-oriented age, conservative fascists are smart enough to hide images of people languishing without due process in Guantanamo, while they simultaneosuly scream about "liberal fascism," which apparently is the picture of two men kissing.

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Harlan's movie picks

Postby Pogue » Sat Apr 11, 2009 5:22 am

Name: Pogue
Source: unca20090603.htm
HE, was perusing the Rabbit Hole and your movie picks for the Beverly screenings. Delighted to see THE BIG KNIFE on the schedule. Nice, often overlooked film.

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Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2003 3:24 pm


Postby Dima » Sat Apr 11, 2009 7:40 am

Name: Dima
Source: unca20090603.htm
Thank you to DTS, Robert Ross and Chuck Messer for your suggestions. I checked my local libraries and unfortunately they have very few PHF books, so I don't know if we can use them for my book club. They do, however, have THE BEST OF PHILLIP JOSE FARMER (DTS, you didn't mention you were the editor!), so I'll probably get that for myself soon. Thanks again.


Susan Ellison
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Joined: Sat May 26, 2012 6:20 pm

Postby Susan Ellison » Sat Apr 11, 2009 10:19 am

Source: unca20090603.htm
Just wanted to thank you all for the kind words regarding Rabbit Hole. Many, many thanks! Hope to see a number of you on Thursday (23rd).

All best--Susan

Jeff R.
Posts: 68
Joined: Sat May 26, 2012 7:02 pm

Why Columbia didn't release THE BIG KNIFE

Postby Jeff R. » Sat Apr 11, 2009 10:20 am

Name: Jeff R.
Source: unca20090603.htm
Most people thought Rod Steiger was doing Harry Cohn (more or less), didn't they?

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K. M. Kirby
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Joined: Thu Mar 26, 2009 3:20 pm

Of Bots Long Since Gone

Postby K. M. Kirby » Sat Apr 11, 2009 10:59 am

Name: Kev Kirby
Source: unca20090603.htm

I just remembered those bot sites that Tony flushed out, a good while back, in an "other place" forum. Did that URL eventually get blocked?

It seems like this page now gets fewer auto-posts.

Posts: 191
Joined: Sat May 26, 2012 6:28 pm

Bowing to potentates

Postby KOS » Sat Apr 11, 2009 12:04 pm

Name: KOS
Source: unca20090603.htm
Uhm, hold on one moment, there.

Conservatives are not fascists, and fascists are not conservatives

Fascists are a form of Right Radical. They seek a Revolution of the Right. Conservatives want to conserve, even if they admit they cannot REVERSE changes, they seek to ameliorate and moderate them. There are a lot of so called conservatives who don't know what conservatism is, as there are anarchists who don't know what that is about. Still, the terms do have meaning.

Conservatives have, alas, been known to make alliances of convenience with Fascists, usually to their later regret. Just as Anarchists have made similar alliances with Communists, and then regretted it. See "Homage to Catalonia" by George Orwell for an example of the latter. Google "Franz von Papen" for one of the former.

That's the extent of what I will say on that, as I have largely recused myself from political discourse,

The tradition that Americans do not bow to anyone is important, else why did we have 1776 and all that? The knowledge of that tradition largely comes FROM reading about 1776 and all that.

However, President Obama did NOT bow to King Abdullah, no matter what some Arab journalist thinks. The President, at a glance, appears close to a foot taller than the Saudi king, and he leaned over the better to clasp the kings hands in a friendly and traditional Arab style handshake/greeting, and exchanged a few pleasantries with the Royal by placing his head closer to the king the better to hear and be heard in a crowded and presumably noisy room. The matter is being exploited by some silly and/or agenda driven hacks to score political points.

I understand the outrage over the faux folderol around the alleged presidential "bow". It's silly. However, the tradition of American ciiizens, who are not "subjects", never bowing to any jumped up Grand Poobah is a very untrivial matter, one that goes to the very heart of what it means to be an American. I gently and kindly suggest that thinking it is trivial, admittedly in response to provocation by the current bogus hysterics in certain circles over the non-bow, could perhaps be rectified by some reflection upon the American history I am sure you have read.

Harlan, I have a boon to ask, one that requires nothing from you other than a "yes" or "no". but it is something I prefer not to post here. Can I send the question through Wyatt, for your possible reply here?


Roger Gjovig
Posts: 49
Joined: Sat May 26, 2012 7:03 pm

Postby Roger Gjovig » Sat Apr 11, 2009 12:30 pm

Name: Roger Gjovig
Source: unca20090603.htm
A happy Easter weekend to all of you. I've been singing with the choir this week with two more services tomorrow morning, I sing the 1st tenor part and am the only one on that part. I guess it's good I have a strong singing voice.
I saw the "Monsters and Aliens" movie yesterday, very funny it was. Much laughing through the movie from all over the theater.

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