Pavilion Digest: March 2009

A plethora of perplexing pavilion posts. The Pavilion Annex thread, the Pavilion Discussion thread, and monthly digests of all messages from the Pavilion.

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FrankChurch
Posts: 16283
Joined: Wed May 28, 2003 2:19 pm

Postby FrankChurch » Mon Mar 09, 2009 5:02 am

Name: Frank Church
Source: unca20090314.htm
Here's Caroline Munro in 2008:

http://www.collectormania.com/imagegall ... Munro2.jpg

Except for her hands she is still quite lovely. Yum.

--------------

John Milius, the great screenwriter, is a fucking nut. Didn't know the guy was a Genghis Khan style right winger, but boy is the guy proud of it. Watch Red Dawn and you kind of get a gist of where this guy comes from. At least he hates Rush. From CNN:

""For example, here's Milius on stopping murderous drug traffickers in Mexico: "We need to go down there, kill them all, flatten the place with bulldozers so when you wake up in the morning, there's nothing there," he said in a phone interview. "I do believe if you have a military, you use it.""

Ah, ok.

on Rush:

"I was watching Rush Limbaugh the other night, and I was horrified. I would have Rush Limbaugh drawn and quartered. He was sticking up for these Wall Street pigs. There should be public show trials, mass denunciations and executions."

Yeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa.

For people with there heads in the sand, Milius wrote Apocalypse Now and the famous line in the first Dirty Harry movie. Probably accounts for Milius being a big gun nut. He is a surfer, this is why he wrote "charlie don't surf" in AN.

At the end of the interview he whines about how conservatives are punished in Hollywood. Aww, punish me like that.








lynn
Posts: 47
Joined: Mon Jun 08, 2009 6:51 am

WATCHMEN

Postby lynn » Mon Mar 09, 2009 7:05 am

Name: lynn
Source: unca20090314.htm
We went to see it this weekend, and thought it was BRILLIANT. As so often, when viewing a movie based on a book or comic we love, we hoped that it would either be A) wonderful or B) a complete and utter disaster - no half measures. We were pleased beyond measure - particularly, I thought Rorschach was done to absolute perfection. The only down side for me was the guy who brought his kid, who could not have been 10 years old. Sorry, but that was no film for a kid. No matter how mature for his age, he might be, it was not a kid's movie. Which reminded me of my sister's outrage when she saw SIN CITY and some idiot couple had brought their 5 YEAR OLD to see it. Jeez, people, I'm not sure I'M old enough for that movie. "but it was based on a COMIC BOOK" I can almost hear them whine. Yes, but maybe the TITLE might have clued you that this wasn't a frickin' Disney pic? And just cuz it's a cartoon don't mean it's fer the kiddies - FRITZ THE CAT, anyone?

Very bummed that our local theater didn't run CORALINE - I've been dying to see it. Also FEAR(S) OF THE DARK, which it doesn't look like even made it to South Dakota at all. Anyone seen it?

Also, just read Joe Hill's 20TH CENTURY GHOSTS and Owen King's WE'RE ALL IN THIS TOGETHER. Both very good, very different styles. And, while I'm at it, I highly recommend Joe Hill's LOCKE & KEY - good stuff, people.

Plus, I ordered me some Adam-Troy Castro today - can't wait.

lynn in south dakota

BrianSiano
Posts: 386
Joined: Wed May 21, 2003 3:42 pm
Location: Philadelphia, PA
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Women writers and truncated careers

Postby BrianSiano » Mon Mar 09, 2009 7:17 am

Name: Brian Siano
Source: unca20090314.htm
Katha Pollitt has a genuinely wonderful piece in _Slate_ about Elaine Showalter's _A Jury of her Peers_.

"Many women writers have complained that fiction by women is undervalued because we undervalue the domestic and the personal as opposed to big manly subjects like war and whaling. It's an important point, but I think there's something deeper going on. In fact, there are men who write about intimate life and women who take on big public subjects. More different than the books themselves is the gendered framing of how we read them. Nobody says Henry James is a less ambitious writer because he wrote The Portrait of a Lady and not The Portrait of a Sea Captain. If The Corrections had been written by Janet Franzen, would it have been seen not as a bid for the Great American Novel trophy, but as a very good domestic novel with some futuristic flourishes that didn't quite come off? If the most prolific serious American writer was John Carroll Oates, would critics be so disturbed by the violence in his fiction? Perhaps we emphasize different elements in similar books and only notice the evidence that confirms our gender biasesand give men more benefits of more doubts, too. Gertrude Stein is a difficult and frustrating writer, but so is the Ezra Pound of The Cantos and the James Joyce of Finnegans Wake, and nobody serious calls them (as Showalter does Stein) basically frauds."

http://www.slate.com/id/2213111/

Dennis C
Posts: 105
Joined: Sat May 26, 2012 6:23 pm

Watchmen

Postby Dennis C » Mon Mar 09, 2009 8:03 am

Name: Dennis C
Source: unca20090314.htm
I know I was the biggest proponent of WATCHMEN from way back when but.... I didn't love it. Found it kind of ponderous and pretentious... and I did find myself frequently going "why do I care about these people again?"
I did love Jackie Earl Haley as Rorschach and Jeffrey Dean Morgan as the Comedian. But overall, it just didn't do it for me.
Sorry to disagree.
Part of it may have to do with the family that came late, sat in our row (in the back), started crinkling all sorts of papers and decided to have various conversations with each other during the film. Which prompted me to get up and get in the face of Daddy (who brought two kids under ten to this very violent R-rated film) and say "You're going to be QUIET for the rest of this movie, right?" Not smart, I know. But I just LOSE IT when morons treat movie theaters like their living rooms. My wife is certain I will be knifed or gunned down one of these days in a theater parking lot. Could happen.

Great Yarmouthian

Horror comedy

Postby Great Yarmouthian » Mon Mar 09, 2009 8:12 am

Name: Great Yarmouthian
Source: unca20090314.htm
Laurie ... I don't think anybody has mentioned LA CABINA - a short Spanish movie from the early '70s that seems to pop up on late night TV about once a decade. If you've seen it, you will certainly not have forgotten it. If you haven't seen it, I will not tell you anything other that it concerns a man and a telephone box.

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John E Williams
Posts: 210
Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2006 9:34 am

Postby John E Williams » Mon Mar 09, 2009 8:45 am

Name: JohnEWilliams
Source: unca20090314.htm
So I found a taker for the PARTNERS book, a relative of one of the featured collaborators who has been trying to get ahold of a copy for some time (and no, it isn't Harlan's cousin Manny). Yay serendipity.

It's gonna be hard to part with this edition though, if only because of the front cover blurb: "If you mix Ellison with wild talents like Zelazny, Sturgeon, Bova, Van Vogt, Davidson, Laumer Hensley, Delany, Sheckley, Silverberg, Rostler, Bloch, Slesar and Budrys... dyn-O-mite!" (So where's Jimmy "J.J" Walker, then?)

Oh the 70s... how we miss you.

MichaelRapoport
Posts: 67
Joined: Mon Jun 15, 2009 10:13 pm

WATCHMEN

Postby MichaelRapoport » Mon Mar 09, 2009 9:06 am

Name: Michael Rapoport
Source: unca20090314.htm
I thought it was maybe 85% a great movie, and a lot of the 15% that didn't work was the stuff that was simply untranslatable from page to screen. So much about it could have gone so wrong that I'm grateful it's as good as it is. The Moore/Gibbons characters and themes make it in pretty much intact; the telescoping and editing needed to make the story fit in a 2:40 movie are intelligently done for the most part; the performances by Jackie Earle Haley and Billy Crudup are terrific; and the design of the Watchmen's world is marvelous, right down to the creepy movements of Rorschach's mask. (That's not a spoiler, is it?)

I'm looking forward to seeing it a second time, this time in IMAX. Roger Ebert, who gave the movie a four-star review, did exactly that, and wrote on his blog that it was "an awesome experience":
http://blogs.suntimes.com/ebert/2009/03 ... m_jus.html



Brad Stevens
Posts: 114
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2007 6:01 am

Postby Brad Stevens » Mon Mar 09, 2009 9:51 am

Name: Brad Stevens
Source: unca20090314.htm
Frank - My favorite John Milius quote appeared in the British newspaper THE GUARDIAN after Miramax fired him from TEXAS RANGERS: "They don't have any sense of responsibility. They'd make a film about anything if they thought it would make some money for them. I think they should give Harvey Weinstein to the Taliban. I'd like to see him on the other side. I'd like to hunt him down in a cave."

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markabaddon
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Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2006 3:24 pm

Postby markabaddon » Mon Mar 09, 2009 10:50 am

Name: Mark Goldberg
Source: unca20090314.htm
I had a chance to see Watchmen last week and enjoyed it tremendously. While I would not go quite so far as my friend Mr. Cramer and call it the best movie of the past 30 years (hard to say what that would be my initial vote would be for Schindler's List but Raiders of the Lost Ark and the Muppet Show would deserve consideration also; yes I realize how weird I am), I would certainly recommend the film highly. There is a ton of violence in it though, some of it quite graphic and brutal, so be aware of that before seeing the movie

For those of you who would like to discuss Watchmen in greater depth, or at least would like to make more than one comment per day, there is a thread over in the Pop Culture section of the Forums where we are talking about the film. Neither Frnk nor Rob has posted there yet, so everything is very civil and reasoned (I keeeed, I keeeed, he says knowing the flames will be coming)

Mark

Kloes
Posts: 16
Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2008 9:17 pm

Postby Kloes » Mon Mar 09, 2009 10:57 am

Name: Lars Klores
Source: unca20090314.htm
HARLAN: Letter received, and all is well. Hope you enjoyed the book.

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Chuck Messer
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Joined: Wed May 21, 2003 9:15 pm
Location: Lakewood, Colorado

Postby Chuck Messer » Mon Mar 09, 2009 11:11 am

Name: Chuck Messer
Source: unca20090314.htm
A&C Meet Frankenstein is still one of my favorites. It was the second and last time Lugosi ever played Dracula on screen and made better use of the Monster than the previous two or three Frankenstein movies did. They ususally consisted of the Monster in a coma until the end when the resident mad scientist hooks up the jumper cables, starts up the monster who then knocks over a rack of chemicals which then spontaneously combust, resulting in the firey climactic ending.

Abbot and Costello showed much more respect for the material than their studio did. And it was their funniest film.

Of audience comments and Bo Derek:
A friend of mine saw Bolero when it came out and there was a sex scene where Bo was simulating extasy as best she could, then suddenly went still. Someone in the audience shouted, "She's dead!" Brought the house down.

Which reminds me of a comment made by Clint Eastwood at that year's Golden Globe awards: "John and Bo Derek couldn't be here tonight. They're at the hospital awaiting the birth of John's next wife."

Damn, Clint! Mee-yow!

Chuck

Edward Brock

Watchmen

Postby Edward Brock » Mon Mar 09, 2009 11:56 am

Name: Edward Brock
Source: unca20090314.htm
I saw Watchmen yesterday (for the second time) & still love it. Like many of the fans of the Alan Moore/Dave Gibbons comic, I was worried that it would be a disaster, but was pleasantly surprised at how well Zack Snyder & gang kept the heart & soul of the series. It wasn't perfect (what film is), but I sat mesmerized in a way I haven't for some time. I'll not speak of any specifics, so as not to spoil it for those who have yet to see it, but I hope you give it a chance. One of the best "fantasy" films I've seen in quite a while.

Of course, I went in following several rules I always adhere to when seeing a film based on a literary work:

1) Remember that the source material will remain enjoyable, even if the film sucks (a bad film does not diminish the quality of the original creation, unless you let it).
2) Remember that it is impossible to cram all the elements of any book/comic into a 2-3 hour film.
3) Remember to view the film on its own merits (which takes the source material as inspiration, not gospel).
4) Remember that certain changes must be made when transferring any material to the big screen (far too many hands get involved).
5) Remember that it's just a movie (even if it disappoints) & life will go on.

KOS
Posts: 191
Joined: Sat May 26, 2012 6:28 pm

I sing the body multiplex

Postby KOS » Mon Mar 09, 2009 1:50 pm

Name: KOS
Source: unca20090314.htm
Is there any informal gathering of the horde at Pinks and/or the Beverly for the screenings up and coming? I have been tghtening my bowstrings and making arrows, not to mention my hors is well fttend and champing at the bit after al the spring grass he's chomped down.

I await the word from the Great Khan,

As for "WATCHMEN" (whyconsistently ALL CAPS?): I watched the openig credits that a link to was posted here a day or two back.

I had never even heard of Wathcmen before the movie was announced. I neer got into graphic novels. My conectin to tat end of the literary spectrum is restricted mostly to what I hear from youse bums.
Thattitle sequence blew me away. It captures the ook of what AMerica was like before Kennedy and TheBeatles led a sex change. No nostalgia here, I am talking aboutThe Look.

It also did thigns with gaphics I hae been aiting for them to sttart doing, as in that shotof the aipane approaching the camera in said title sequence.

am gong to see WATCHMEN as soon as I can. I have some hope of a goof time.

zFRANK!

Frank,Frankm FRANK! How did oyu mis John Milius being KUH0razy? He may have some SOME right of venter views, but he is no conservative. He is a populisticwar loving nutjob. LOL, one heck of a writer though.

I mean,m FRrank, you didn ot know hwrote that spech tat opens "PAtton? That he wrote and directed the first Conan film, with that uever-Milius dialogue couplet:



Mongol General: Wrong! Conan! What is best in life?

Conan: To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentation of their women.

"That he wrote "The WInf And The Lion" with it's Teddy Roosevelt machtpolitik message? -snip-

And forget "Charlie don't surf!": Milius made the "Ur-Surf"" croaker of a wheezigly ponderous "epic" sutf-schlager manque festooned with the fauz mysterious meaning title "Big Wednesday"m which I am told had so much verite' the ushers wore wetsuits, they they had to shvel sand and crabs from the first three rows nightly?

Milius is a poster boy for crackpotdom of fhe right, sort of the Bizarro Oliver Stone, an image seen in a cracked mirror darkly.








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Ben
Posts: 185
Joined: Sat May 31, 2003 2:15 pm

Postby Ben » Mon Mar 09, 2009 1:51 pm

Name: Ben Winfield
Source: unca20090314.htm
EDWARD,

I won't argue with your take on WATCHMEN, but please, please, please - in the name of all that's good and decent - don't ever use the phrase "it wasn't perfect (what film is)". It's almost as dangerous as the equally ominous term, "what could possibly go wrong?"

BATMAN & ROBIN "wasn't perfect". CATWOMAN "wasn't perfect". And sweet merciful God knows 300 "wasn't perfect". It's too unreliable and vague for anyone to trust. I could easily say that THE TREASURE OF THE SIERRA MADRE "wasn't perfect", but it wouldn't give you a damn clue to the actual quality of the movie, would it?

--------------------------------------

On the subject of horror-comedies, I'd like to take the opportunity to deflate a long-revered "monument" in the subgenre, AN AMERICAN WEREWOLF IN LONDON.

Now, I happen to own the film myself. There's plenty of gold to be found, including a classic man-to-monster scene that probably got thousands of viewers into transformation fetishes. But the tone of the movie, despite what others have claimed, is unstable as hell. It's like John Landis kept switching between those smiley-comedy and frowny-tragedy theater masks without warning the audience when he's about to do so. "Now I'm funny. Now I'm serious. Now I'm funny. Now I'm serious."

I'd say one of the few movies that ever 100% successfully fused comedy and horror into an organic whole was EVIL DEAD 2. The tone remains consistent throughout the entire picture, thanks in part to Bruce Campbell's deranged performance. (One of his parents HAS to be a toon.)

KOS
Posts: 191
Joined: Sat May 26, 2012 6:28 pm

What I meant to say was

Postby KOS » Mon Mar 09, 2009 2:03 pm

Name: KOS
Source: unca20090314.htm
As you scrol down, just skip the next (previous? time in the pavilion is screwy) posting below htis. Somehowit got sent before I proofed and correctedit.

-sigh-

Is there any informal gathering of the horde at Pinks and/or the Beverly for the screenings up and coming? I have been tghtening my bowstrings and making arrows, not to mention my horse is fattened and champing at the bit after al the spring grass he's chomped down.

I await word from the Great Khan,

As for "WATCHMEN" (why consistently ALL CAPS?): I watched the openig credits that a link to was posted here a day or two back.

I had never even heard of Watchmen before the movie was announced. I neer got into graphic novels. My conection to that end of the literary spectrum is restricted mostly to what I hear from youse bums.
l
That title sequence blew me away. It captured the look of what America was like before Kennedy and The Beatles gave it a sex change. No nostalgia here, I am talking about The Look.

I was gonna write "sea change" but that typo actually works better. We did get a sex change, in at least two senses.

The WATCHMEN title sequence also did things with graphics I have been waiting Waiting WAITING for SOMEone to Get A Fucking Clue and do, as in that shot of the bomber flying past the camera in said title sequence.

I am gong to see WATCHMEN as soon as I can. I have some hope of a goof time.

Frank,Frank, FRANK! How did your Eagle Eye ever miss that John Milius is KUH-razee!? He may have some SOME right of center views, but he is no conservative. He is a populistic war loving nutjob. LOL, one heck of a writer though.

I mean, Frank, you did not know Milius wrote the spech which opens "Patton"? That he wrote and directed the first Conan film, with that "Ueber-Milius dialogue couplet:

Mongol General: Wrong! Conan! What is best in life?

Conan: To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentation of their women.

That he wrote "The Wind And The Lion" with it's Teddy Roosevelt machtpolitik message?

And forget "Charlie don't surf!": Milius made the "Ur-Surf"" croaker of a wheezingly ponderous "epic" sutf-schlager manque festooned with the fauz mysterious meaning title "Big Wednesday", which, I am given to understand, had so much verite' the ushers wore wetsuits, the better with which to wade into the front rows apres showings the better to shovel sand and crabs from the first three rows?

Milius is a poster boy for crackpotdom of fhe right, sort of the Bizarro Oliver Stone, an image seen in a cracked mirror darkly.

Talent knows no politics. Bertolt Brecht proved that for the left, ditto for john Boy and the "right".

KOS



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