Pavilion Digest: February 2009

A plethora of perplexing pavilion posts. The Pavilion Annex thread, the Pavilion Discussion thread, and monthly digests of all messages from the Pavilion.

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Steven Augustine

For the First Time in My Adult Life

Postby Steven Augustine » Sun Feb 01, 2009 3:57 pm

Name: Steven Augustine
Source: unca20090314.htm
"Well, I must, in all candor (and with genuine concern) tell you that I was distressed down to my shoe soles by the revelations in that segment..."

I've never seen/heard *anyone* make a public turnaround like this (especially not on this topic). Ever. This guy gets my vote for Tribal Leader; I think I've just had my faith renewed in something or other.

(And I am *not* sycophanting; I'd write the same thing if he were known only to the voices in his head)

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Postby Duane » Sun Feb 01, 2009 5:34 pm

Name: Duane
Source: unca20090314.htm
I may not be able to say this ever again, especially since the game is far from undecided here in the mid fourth quarter.



Brought to you by "Living in the moment."

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A sequel?

Postby KOS » Sun Feb 01, 2009 10:50 pm

Name: KOS
Source: unca20090314.htm
I don't see any problem with a sequel to "300".

In Herodotus' account of the second Persian invasion of Greece, the battle at Thermopylae is prelude to the Greek triumph at Salamis. Plenty of drama there, with the Greeks bickering as to whether they ought even fight the Persian navy again after the ass-whipping Xerxes I's fleet put on them at Artemisium, which sea battle was fought at roughly the same time as Thermopylae was on land.

Not to mention the rather choice double dealing done by the Greek commander Themistocles, when he ended the Greek indecision by secretly sending a messenger to Xerxes telling him where the Greek fleet was holed up, in the straits between the island of Salamis and the Greek mainland. Xerxes ordered his navy to block both exits from said straits, and the Greeks had to fight. Neatly done, forcing the superior in numbers enemy to come at you in a narrow strait, just as had been done on land at the pass of Thermopylae, largely negating his overwhelming numerical advantage.

Not so stirring a tale as one of those "nobler defeats" so beloved of the Western tradition (see The Alamo and Little Big Horn for notable examples), but it could be done.

After all, some people wanted to make a sequel to Titanic. The ship sank, the heroes dead. No problem. That's how I got into this business.

Actually, for my money, if the maker's of "300" want an epic spear and sandal tale, they ought to film a version of Xenophon's "The March Upcountry" ("Anabasis"). Talk about dire straits! "We're a thousand miles from home, surrounded by an enemy army that outnumbers us better than ten to one, and they just murdered all our generals in a fake peace conference!"

And it's all true, near as can be told.



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Oh, Well

Postby William Sherman » Mon Feb 02, 2009 2:50 am

Name: William Sherman
Source: unca20090314.htm
Dear Mr. Ellison et al.:

Watched "The Wrestler", "The Reader", and The Super Bowl (XLIII) this weekend. Enjoyed all, despite the fact that the Steelers did not cover. Hope both movies earn Oscars on the twenty-second.


William Sherman
Boxford, MA

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Postby FrankChurch » Mon Feb 02, 2009 5:54 am

Name: Frank Church
Source: unca20090314.htm
Rob, basically the Jewish settlers are saying that they will NEVER give up building settlements, never, never. They said they will fight until every arab is outside of Israel--even if they have to fight the Israeli government, which I don't see happening, because the government has supported the settlement building, based on the fact that when they get huge military aid from us, settlement building increases.

Livni was lying on 60 Minutes. She has to support settlements, in the end, because her power rests on it.

Also, Shimon Peres lied at Davos when he said that border checkpoints were not as bad as what was said. The 60 Minutes episode shows just how crazy the checkpoints are--and they have nothing to do with protecting Israel.

The scene where the Israeli soldiers wouldn't let Palestinian school kids into their own house was nuts.


Ok, that's enough on that for a bit. Are we happy? hehe.

Fuckin Arizona. Cheatin ass Pittsburg. They bought the Refs.


Seems Bank of America used our bailout money to host a ten million dollar Superbowl party. Wonderful.

The shit just gets deeper.

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Postby john zeock » Mon Feb 02, 2009 6:44 am

Name: john zeock
Source: unca20090314.htm
KOS- Anabasis was the basis for Walter Hill's film of The Warriors. A little voice in the back of my head is saying that someone is doing another modern day version of that. The director of Dog Soldiers and The Descent (whose name is escaping me at the moment ) has mentioned in interviews that he wants to do Anabasis and maybe the success of 300 will aid that.

Andrew Fuller

battles in sandals

Postby Andrew Fuller » Mon Feb 02, 2009 12:25 pm

Name: Andrew Fuller
Source: unca20090314.htm
With the multiple mentions regarding ancient battles, I was going to make a joke about the epic journey of The Warriors street gang through unfriendly territories to their Coney Island home turf, but someone beat me to it. I quite like the well-aged fromage of this movie, and often subject my friends to a viewing. The Baseball Furies are a sight to behold. I've seen a few sources declare this movie is "based on The Odyssey", and loose is the word.

Ken Marshall is the director of Dog Soldiers (fun!) and The Descent (the first visceral horror movie that surprised me in some time), and Doomsday (a strange mishmash of Road Warrior, 28 Days Later, Escape from NY and tributes to other genre flicks, but still fun). Can this guy only title his movies with D? I've read a few recent articles saying that his next movie is intended to be about the Ninth Roman Legion, one historical theory is they were lost in Briton in a battle with the Picts. He does seem to keep his stories regional, so this seems more likely than the Anabasis idea.

In other news, I sent out a barrage of my own new stories last week. (None of them with a sandal, oddly.) That makes fourteen in the wind. Maybe this year I'll publish more than one.

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Harlan Ellison
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Postby Harlan Ellison » Mon Feb 02, 2009 12:57 pm

Source: unca20090314.htm
As you all seem to agree, and I'm down wit' dat, Josh's paean to the triumvirate he admires (and at this point I drop out, doing my best to manifest humility at such encomia) is no less than inspired, eloquent, heartfelt, and honest. I know him, and I tell you true he was inspired, he was eloquent, his remarks are heartfelt, and this is as close to honesty as a thug like Josh can manage, happily wallowing as is his wont in an abattoir of egomaniacal self-deception. I will also give him insightful, recondite (as opposed to merely "thoughtful") and probably as close to a thorough personal explication of his perception of the Art/Artist conundrum as either of us is capable.

I called him a few minutes ago, after I read it through closely for the second time -- making three times in all that I perused it -- and we had a longish "conversation" anent "performance art," "ficchu," "passion vs. performance," and on and on, selah.

But Josh has a studio pitch meeting in an hour, and I was so rapt by what he had espused, and the more we talked --and the more I had to interrupt him while he was interrupting me -- the more I was moved to suggest we, he and I, do a recording of the Josh&HarlanShow on the Subject(s) of Art(s) & Artist(s).

And so, thus do I refute Beelzy, thus do I commend Olson, and thus do I frustrate all of you who would've loved to've been flies on the wall ... except for Pogue, who would be shrieking, "Help me! Help me!"

Respectfully, Yr. Pal, Harlan

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Harlan Ellison
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Postby Harlan Ellison » Mon Feb 02, 2009 1:00 pm

Source: unca20090314.htm
The point of mentioning Josh's previous engagement, of course, dropped by me as I was recounting, is that THAT is the reason we had to put the chocks under the wheels till another takeoff.


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Postby Josh Olson » Mon Feb 02, 2009 1:18 pm

Name: Josh Olson
Source: unca20090314.htm
I am, indeed, getting ready for a pitch. But I wanted to add a tiny little note to the end of my ramble the other day. Some time after I posted it, it dawned on me that this was a particularly wonderful weekend in regards those three gentlemen I discussed:

Friday, the world premiere of a previously censored Bill Hicks bit.

Saturday, dinner with the Ellisons.

Sunday, Springsteen at the Superbowl.

Life is just fine. And if we do ever get off our respective asses and record this thing, I've promised Harlan I'll speak slowly.

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Postby Moderator » Mon Feb 02, 2009 2:01 pm

Name: Steve Barber
Source: unca20090314.htm

Hey, don't forget it was my birthday. They held this huge party in Tampa (I couldn't go) and...and...


Wait. You mean Springsteen wasn't singing for me????

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Postby shagin » Mon Feb 02, 2009 2:10 pm

Name: shagin
Source: unca20090314.htm
Today was a rainbow day, a blend of smiles and tears. Yeah, I read "For Better or For Worse", what's it to ya?

While waiting in line to pay for my groceries, I struck up a conversation with the mother of a 4-5 year oldish girl in front of me. The girl had a noticable lack of hair, and what hair remained was limp and in desperate need of company to cover the scabs on her scalp. The mom and I discussed children, Children's Hospital, and chemo. It seems her daughter has kidney cancer, but because of her age and the success of removing ALL of the cancer (and the offended kidney with it) the doctors are giving her a 99% recovery rate.

The girl wanted nothing to do with me until her mother was receiving the change from the cashier. Then the little miss looked at me from behind her mother's legs and said, cautious and curious as a rabbit, "Are you taking medicine?"


"I'm taking medicine. It's no fun."

"No," I said, doing my damnedest not to cry, "I bet it's not."

Her mother smiled at me and took her daughter's hand. As they were leaving the counter, the little girl had one last bit of wisdom to share: "I'll get better. You'll get better, too."

I have diffuse alopecia areata and am all but bare here, there, and everywhere. I've never claimed to have cancer, I don't want cancer, no thanks, period. But today I let a little girl think she wasn't alone when it came to having no hair because she was sick. I wanted to give her a reason to smile and think that she could do anything she set her mind to because an adult knew what it was like.

I made it to the car, called hubby to tell him I was on my way home, and started to cry and smile all at once.

My mother died of kidney cancer.

You'll be okay, honey....


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To Josh and Harlan

Postby MichaelRapoport » Mon Feb 02, 2009 2:36 pm

Name: Michael Rapoport
Source: unca20090314.htm
Josh: Thank you for your incisive, perceptive, beautifully written essay (it's much too good to refer to it as merely a "post"). I can offer it no higher praise than to say that you've convinced me, all by yourself, to check out Bill Hicks' work. If you're putting him in the artists-with-integrity pantheon alongside Ellison and Springsteen - both of whose work I've loved for decades, and whose skill and appeal you analyze so well - he must be pretty good.

(Incidentally, the Letterman routine is now online. Go to: ... ight.phtml
and click on "The Unseen Bill Hicks Stand-Up Act.")

Both Josh and Harlan: Count me as one enthusiastic "yes" vote for the idea of recording your colloquies on art and artists for the rest of us to enjoy. If it helps encourage you, I'd be more than willing to pay good money for the opportunity to watch or listen, and i suspect others here would be, too.

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Harlan Ellison
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Postby Harlan Ellison » Mon Feb 02, 2009 2:54 pm

Source: unca20090314.htm
I was serious.

Everyone else seemed to understand when I said, "I'm being serious," that I was, as proffered, BEING SERIOUS.

Honesty made me post as I did, Frank. Against my better judgment. I had sworn an oath to myself just to let Frank Church On The Middle East Imbroglio lie, to say nothing more, because (and I'M BEING SERIOUS): it's not your implacable and obdurate position that drives me--and others--crazy, Frank, it's that you are an idiot who never knows when enough is enough, and when just to siddown and shut the fuck up. This is a character flaw you share with that bumbleheaded bellowing bag of bog-feces, Rush Limbaugh. Your intellectual kin, whom you profess to despise. No, Frank, said Harlan, exasperated:

what you


ALWAYS do, Frank, is


go a bridge too far.

Instead of just accepting what was obviously difficult for me to set down, what was clearly the result of slow and painful rumination, arriving at a place that was jaw-droppingly and hellishly uncomfortable for me to visit...and saying something simple in the nature of, oh...thank you...instead, as you ALWAYSALWAYSALWAYS do, you had to embellish your same old hoary screed with a myriad of utter stupid paralogical fucking-annoying assumptions such as "Israel is lying when it says it's concerned about its destruction."

(NBC TONIGHT: "Good evening. Today Israeli Prime Minister Shmool Rabinowitz announced,
'I'm lying! I'm lying! Yes, yes, do you hear me, we've ALL been lying, for fifty untruthful years! I tell a lie...I WANT TO BE DESTRUCTED!! All of us have been lying. Please, ohdearsweet Hamasians, send me to the feet of Allah! Destruct the shit outta me! That's the truth! Ignore all my defensive actions, they're just misdirection so you'll destroy me and my miserable kind and the offal-stench that is Our Demonic Nation! I tell a lie! I WANT TO BE DESTRUCTED!! All of us have been lying. We took a secret Jew-Oath that if we couldn't secretly take over the world with our Secret Jew-Oath plan secretly to rule Hollywood and the money-markets, both of which are doing peachykeen, thank you, because we've secretly been manipulating everything so secretly swell...then we would Lie!LIE!LIE! about not wanting to be "shoved back into the sea," which could actually be Arabic code for "Let's embrace the nifty Israelis and let them secretly rule us via Adam Sandler movies and Hedge Funds ala Madoff" and we sure as Channukah don't want THAT to happen, for Actual Peace to reign when we could (as we indeed do) want, to be DESTRUCTED!' so get on with it, already!" Prime Minister Jewavich then swallowed a vial of hemlock and turned an improbable shade of lilac, his head imploded, and he expired right in front of our NBC TONIGHT cameras."

No one with even a soggy lima bean for what passes as a brain could rationally assert such a dopey conclusion, no matter HOW goddam up-on-the-subject he or she may be, because to KNOW such a thing about an entire nation of people and opinions would require


You jackass.

YOU don't read minds, IIIII don't read minds! Not even a single one, much less the massmind or mass minds or even the single individual sole one-off mind of ONE Israeli, you simpleton.
Not to mention that such a conclusion is ridiculous, illogical, simple-minded, prejudiced, ignoble, pointless, recklessly injudicious, unkind and just downright donkeydick-dumb.

But, no, you couldn't find it in your ridiculous splenetic nature to exude even one pallid scintilla of graciousness, and just let it all go till the NEXT time those slathering Zionist cocksucker Israeli murderers did something heinous. No, you HAD to go a bridge too far.

Well, even if you're on the righteous side of the problem, you are a jerkwater adolescent who cannot seem to figure out how to win the approbation of those who MIGHT agree with you, if you weren't forever poking wolverines with twigs.

You should've just shut your face, been gracious, and permitted me--as I do you--to disagree on a subject that has so many complex edges and facets not even the finest diamond-cutter in the universe could bifurcate it with skill, forget impunity!

I herewith absent myself from any response to your gibes, jibes, jerkoffs and jests. You have worn out my good graces.
My patience with you is much longer-gone.

And so you do not think that the total silence on this topic hereafter proceeding means, in any way, that your logic and cunning and knowledge and inherent righteousness have won the day, pay heed to this, schmuck:

As of yesterday, CEASE-FIRE STILL IN EFFECT, your poor weeping and wailing A-rab, towelhead, terrorist, are-getting-what-they-deserve civilians, schlepping their bloody and headless corpse-children in their arms for any Al-Jazeera camera handy ... fired TEN (10) FUCKING ROCKETS INTO ISRAEL, killing dozens of those evil kike Christ-killing Jewbastard motherfuckers who somehow were NOT filmed toting the remains of THEIR dead urchins.

Spilled entrails enough for EVERYONE, Frank lad.

You had my ear for a week there, kiddo; but you haven't got the balls to be gentlemanly. So you and I are quits on this, Church. If you want to talk about something else, well, we'll see how it goes.

Harlan Ellison

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To Josh Olson:

Postby BillGauthier » Mon Feb 02, 2009 3:27 pm

Name: Bill Gauthier
Source: unca20090314.htm
Last week (and into this one) has been a bad week but I'd skimmed over your post about Ellison, Springsteen, and Hicks and made a mental not of REALLY reading it.

Obviously, because I'm here, you know I already think the world of Harlan's work (I've put it in print and too often around the web). I'm also a big Springsteen fan for all of the same reasons you mentioned.

Hicks, though, I haven't really run into. Oh, a LOT of people have recommended his work to me, but I've never really sought it out. As of tonight, though, I will.

Thanks for the post.


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