Pavilion Digest: May 2006

A plethora of perplexing pavilion posts. The Pavilion Annex thread, the Pavilion Discussion thread, and monthly digests of all messages from the Pavilion.

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Harlan Ellison
Harlan Fucking Ellison
Posts: 847
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Postby Harlan Ellison » Tue May 02, 2006 7:12 pm

Source: unca20060606.htm
i've checked with Susan, and she says it's okay if I have your baby.

Passionately, Yr. pal, Harlan

Lyn S

Postby Lyn S » Tue May 02, 2006 7:24 pm

Name: Lyn S
Source: unca20060606.htm
Just a brief note (because to be perfectly honest I find this board kinda intimidating) to tell HE that I asked some friends to get him to sign a book for me in April, in Minneapolis or whatever hellish Ikea-obsessed city they live in... wait, no, that sentence is too long.


Dear Mr Ellison
Never before has anyone signed any book for me with "You've got to be fuckin' kidding with that dedication request."

It's going to be treasured for as long as I remain capable of reading it.


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�Shall Not the Judge of all the Earth do Right?�

Postby robochrist » Tue May 02, 2006 10:19 pm

Name: Rob
Source: unca20060606.htm
About a week ago, I had one PILEDRIVER of a nightmare; it was like something straight of the ether of an opium den!

To put it simply, Bush, completely unchecked, nukes Iran, and soon, thereafter, turns half the Middle East into a mushroom field. In the chill of a cloudless night, before obsequious Fox News cameras, he emerges in a big flowered moomoo, a gold collar, and sandals. Raising a sceptor, he declares himself the New Messiah, Gods Messenger, the LIGHTENING rod of justice. Cheney too is there, poised next to Bush with a cold stare holding a leash behind his back...which EXPLAINS the gold collar!

Yeah...with our legislature almost completely disabled, our brain dead little coke snorter promptly herds all left wing groups into camps, and summarily executes his political enemies. His resolution to the World would now recognize ONLY "a Christian god," and remove minority religions; His manifesto - compiled from his own crayon scrawlings from his days at a Half Way House - is now required reading. BUT, beyond that, he declares, he will "protect the majority's right to express its religious beliefs. Justified Recognition, he goes on to call it.

By the shanked pastern of a cloven hoof, yall better hope I aint psychic.

Man, this thing was vivid, looming, and frighteningly, WONDERFULLY ominous! I think it was spurred by chilling Gregorian chants I heard over and over in a radio ad they kept running for the novel, The Messiah of Morris Avenue (added to a lot of Gothic alternative rock I've been listening to lately); that music really stuck with me.

WellI've always been known to sell out my principles fast...soooo, in case we DO see anything like this unfold in the near future, I'm gonna declare myself a Good Christian and Bush's most eager of ass wipes.

After all, Hitler reached HIS loft by Democratic means (thats because Democracy works!); so I have to wonder HOW unlikely this picture really IS.

Well, in closing, heres a mighty interestin piece of relevant trivia for ya to take wit ya t yer next Jeopardy:

I figure the good lot of you remember H.G. Wells THINGS TO COME.
Well, guess where the story takes place the region where a new technological order emerges from the dusts of war:

Basra, Iraq!

'Tis a fact.


I think that is like sooooo RAD!

What an uncanny writer. He could chill readers to the bone in his day, and he can STILL do so.

Here's to the Dark Ages. (I think I'd better copyright this fast)

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Location: St. Pete., FL

Postby Charlie » Wed May 03, 2006 4:02 am

Name: Charlie
Source: unca20060606.htm
To paraphrase our 300-year old founding father, you have a Pavilion, if you can keep it. When this site had been shut down in the past, it was well to see how civil everyone was upon re-opening. Kinda like how people were to each other for the first week or so after 9/11; then, they all repeated their bitchiness. Doc is an ole time poster with a good heart, but I'm afraid his head was in another place with his last request. Yet, that didn't require the unnecessary lashing he received at the hands of a couple posters and violations of the simple rules Rick requires. Excuse the biblical reference, but, judge not, that ye be not judged. Going by history, a short-term closure of this particular web page would have no long-term salutary effect. Whether or not a few of the posters remember the past doesn't seem to matter as they continually repeat themselves by violating Rick's rules resulting in the threatened or actual shut down of this page time after time. If Rick decides to permanently shut down this site, who could blame him? Definitely couldn't argue that we all hadn't been sufficiently warned.

Having said that, anyone want to talk about the Harvard sophomore who has allegedly borrowed passages from another author in her latest book? Little, Brown has just withdrawn her book and canceled her contract. The book now has a tidy-asking sum by some dealers. Would anyone purchase her book just for the monetary value or would her alleged unethical act prevent you from purchasing it?

Elijah Newton

Just in case...

Postby Elijah Newton » Wed May 03, 2006 4:09 am

Name: Elijah Newton
Source: unca20060606.htm
This board has been a pleasure to visit. Harlan, thanks for setting aside your distaste for the internet to post as frequently as you do. Rick, thanks for the behind the scenes work setting up and monitoring the pavillion.

As for the rest of us who have wandered in, dusty and unkempt, well... not to cheapen Paine's words, but "what we obtain too cheap, we esteem too lightly; tis dearness only that gives everything its value." I suggest that perhaps things have gotten too casual; for a collection of people with an appreciation for fine literature, words are tossed around with undue haste. We who have not contributed anything else to this endeavor can be reasonably expected to spare the time and brainpower needed to put together courteous posts.

I mention this only because if the Pavillion goes 'poof' I will miss it, but will understand why it went. What earthly reason our patron and host have for putting up with extra hassles in their lives escapes me, though I'm content to appreciate a good thing without knowing the whys and wherefores behind it.

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Location: Stockholm, Sweden


Postby Mindtraveller » Wed May 03, 2006 4:21 am

Name: Alex Nystrom
Source: unca20060606.htm
Dear Harlan. I once wrote a story (well, actually more like 26 small vignettes) in the vein of your From A to Z in the Chocolate Alphabet. As an hommage, I decided to call it From A to Z in the Candymaker's Alphabet. Now my question is: Is this OK with you, or should I stop being such an unimaginative klutz, fuck off and go change the title?

Best regards from sunny Sweden!
/Alex (fan since many years)

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Robert Morales
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While everyone frets over the Pavilion ...

Postby Robert Morales » Wed May 03, 2006 4:36 am

Name: Robert Morales
Source: unca20060606.htm
... civilization slips back toward unreason: ... eid=137636

* * *
As for 19-year-old plagiarist, Kaavya Viswanathan: Clearly, she never fathomed it was wrong to steal, nor did it occur to anyone at the book-packaging company that hired her to tell her NOT to steal. Ms Viswanathan's is a web-entitlement generation; we'll be seeing lots of this sort of malfeasance. And to address her tome's collectable value - go on and see what Clifford Irving is going for these days. A copy Ms Viswanathan's book would only have real value were someone to have the hubris to obtain her autograph AND those of the writers she ripped off.

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Green Cheese update

Postby Ash » Wed May 03, 2006 5:50 am

Name: Ash
Source: unca20060606.htm
DOUGIE (and anybody else interested):

The 1981 "2000AD ANNUAL" arrived today (I'm not having a dig at the Royal Mail). For the first time in a quarter century I have my mits on the short story "BANG! BANG! SAID THE GREEN CHEESE MAN", as narrated by one HARLAN ELLIS. I assume whoever wrote this parody(?) wished to remain anonymous - no credit listed anywhere. The story is about nasty big corporates and a scheme to sell the Moon. The dark-side lunar folks are known as THE REJECTS, and reminded me a little of Bedzyk and his chums. Otherwise, not really anything to get too excited about.

Ellis narrates in typical Philip Marlowe style:

"I'd like to take a moment right here to tell you about my secretary. Her name's Miss Uig, and she's got everything a man could ever want -- a cigar, muscles, and a moustache."

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Postby Moderator » Wed May 03, 2006 6:42 am

Name: Steve Barber
Source: unca20060606.htm
Okay, I privately admitted so yesterday, but will publicly admit today that I am formally adopting Bud Webster's "Encroachment of Willful Ignorance" as a catchphrase. Stealing, as it were, but will give him all appropriate credit as credit is due (see below).

Kristin - Let me applaud your post yesterday as well. As a point of note, two "pseudononymous" individuals in the Forum have already tried to escape personal responsibility for the tone of invection we've been reading.

Kaavya Viswanathan. In her own defense she states that she unwittingly copied two different novels. Either she possesses a previously unnoted idetic memory, or she is engaging in exactly what Robert M suggests in his posting below. To Ms. Viswanathan, simply changing most of the words absolves her of the ethical crime of plagiarism. And I agree that this is a symptom of the internet's influence (in part).

Much of what's written on the net is not copyrighted, and is therefore in public domain, whether the authors realize it or not. My photographs are all copyrighted, but the text of my website is not, opening me to all sorts of plagiarism. Fortunately, no one in their right mind would copy my words when so many others are better and more readily available.

This suggests that society needs to be ever more vigilant in regards to the rights of the artist (writer, painter, singer, etc) to protect the sanctity of their work. The net has made theft all too easy and all too prevalent, and the Entitlement Generation (which ranges in age from 1 to 100) entirely too willing to take advantage of it and label the work their own.

Even writers of such impeccable credits as Stephen Ambrose are not above such "accidents". Ambrose wrote on the history of America with profound and moving skill. But he will always be remembered with a tiny little asterisk that details his admitted transgression.

But Viswanathan's "Encroachment of Willful Ignorance" is worse, by far. She did it -- obviously and clumsily -- and then covered it up with a weak defense when the theft was discovered.

Harlan is legendary for his defense of his work, but even pop writers like Dan Brown and J.K. Rowling have been dragged into court as someone attempts to profit from their work. Both were accused of plagiarizing, and both were acquitted.

A week or so ago someone posted a story idea to the Pavilion and was surprised at the chorus of objection. It wasn't the idea that was bad (didn't read it, don't know), but the action of posting it at all.

Creativity is in danger, and even moreso because when it happens, and happens for real, there are predators out there willing to label it their own. And in that game, we all lose.


Postby Chris » Wed May 03, 2006 7:50 am

Name: Chris
Source: unca20060606.htm
Check this out: ... 503Z6.html

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Jim Davis
Posts: 496
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Postby Jim Davis » Wed May 03, 2006 7:59 am

Name: Jim Davis
Source: unca20060606.htm
STEVE BARBER: You wrote: "Much of what's written on the net is not copyrighted, and is therefore in public domain, whether the authors realize it or not. My photographs are all copyrighted, but the text of my website is not, opening me to all sorts of plagiarism."

Actually, as long as it isn't a short phrase, caption or title, any text on your web site enjoys copyright protection, even if you don't have a notice to that effect (though it certainly helps). Now, if you want to ever want to bring suit against someone for infringement, you'll have to submit an application to register your work with the Copyright Office. But even without that, your work, be it text, photograph or whatever, from the moment it's created in a fixed form, ABSOLUTELY is copyrighted.

MY OBLIGATORY COMMENT ON THE WHOLE DOC FRACAS: Doc, from what I recall of his earlier posts, seems to be a decent guy who, yesterday, let his emotions get the better of his common sense. No big deal--it happens to all of us sometimes, and if he walks away from this a little wiser, with no legal consequences, all the better. And Doc, if I came off a little harsh or pedantic towards you, it was only because I wanted to quash a possible disaster-in-the-making as soon as possible. (Believe me, if I ever do something similar on this or any other forum, I'd hope you guys would do the same.)

And despite all the tsuris this place generates sometimes, I'd hate it if it went away. Who else would put up with my surreal non sequiturs? (Well, okay, the family tied up in my basement will, but they deserve any break they can get.)

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Location: Chester, SC

a thank you from a small town fan-boy

Postby TallyJohnson » Wed May 03, 2006 8:02 am

Name: Tally Johnson
Source: unca20060606.htm
Mr. Ellison-
Despite your acknowledged skepticism about the subject, meeting you at Dragoncon 2004 finally inspired me to get off my butt and get my book of "true" local (SC) ghost stories published. It happened in October '05 and I've been in the top 1 million on ever since. I sold 50 of 40 books at my first signing (stashing a few in the trunk is a genius plan)!! Thanks for all the great work and I eagerly await more soon. As I say on my livejournal...Harlan Ellison for the Nobel Prize in Literature!!

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Harlan Ellison
Harlan Fucking Ellison
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Postby Harlan Ellison » Wed May 03, 2006 8:02 am

Source: unca20060606.htm
Dear Mr. Nystrom:

You present me with a bit of a quandary.

I am loath to tell ANY writer s/he should retitle or even rewrite something that innocently proceeded from something that I wrote. It's called "literary crossover," and it's perfectly acceptable. So, on the one hand, no, I won't get in your way if you choose to retain that title.

On the other hand (and hear a mild tone as I speak), I originally conceived of the "From A to Z in the ... Alphabet"
endeavour as an ongoing personal congeries wherein (and whereat) I could use short short ideas in a gestalt, or communal, framework that would enhance even the slightest frippery of a concept. Some story ideas are no more than that...ideas...and they don't lend themselves to the extended exposition. But I smile on them, and don't want to waste them.

So I did "From A to Z, in the Chocolate Alphabet" and last year or the year before (though you may not have seen it, you being in Sweden) I published another 26-bit abecedarian titled "From A to Z, in the Sarsaparilla Alphabet" in THE MAGAZINE OF FANTASY & SCIENCE FICTION. It hasn't been reprinted, because I'm saving it for my next collection of stories, nonetheless, it is the second in what I anticipate will be a more protracted use of the "From A to Z..." format. So...

Well, I kinda wanted to keep that nomenclature for my own stuff, but as I said, hey, you're free to use or change, as the whim takes you. Either way, I'm cool about it. I might be a trifle sad, and throw a pout; but I really am cool about it.

Yr. pal, Harlan

Steven Utley

Postby Steven Utley » Wed May 03, 2006 10:58 am

Name: Steven Utley
Source: unca20060606.htm
Many thank-yous, Harlan, both for agreeing to sign the books and for the "high regard" for my "story-telling skills." The signed books will mean a lot to the party for whom they are intended, and your regard means a hell of a lot to me. Just this week, I have been revisiting THE STORIES OF RAY BRADBURY and THE ESSENTIAL ELLISON. Not to take a thing away from H. G. Wells, Arthur Conan Doyle, Edgar Rice Burroughs, Robert E. Howard, and other writers who inflamed my prepubescent/barely pubescent imagination, but Ray Bradbury was My Main Man when I was fifteen years old and trying to figure out how to Become A Writer (his advice: "Write!") ... and soon after I was old enough to vote my education was taken over by you and Robert Silverberg and Barry Malzberg. Thanks, thanks a million, thanks for everything.

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Postby Lee » Wed May 03, 2006 12:46 pm

Name: Lee
Source: unca20060606.htm

I've tried and succeeded in stuffing several recent urges to join in the Webderland fracas du jour. Continency feels good, and there's a lesson to be learned in seeing just how much less I've had to say when not busy mixing it up on the horseplay level.

But let's face it head on: the Flying Blue Monkeys don't herd well. The day will come...that "yo momma" moment...can you imagine being the well meaning but rowdy fool that opens the big yapper and gets Webderland shut down? Frankly, I can.

I dearly hope that Harlan can reserve a modicum of mercy for said well meaning but rowdy fool, and that he can use it to absolve the occasional drunken lapse. Else-wise we have indeed met the enemy and he is, indeed, us.

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