Pavilion Digest: May 2006

A plethora of perplexing pavilion posts. The Pavilion Annex thread, the Pavilion Discussion thread, and monthly digests of all messages from the Pavilion.

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Eric Martin
Banned
Posts: 546
Joined: Wed May 28, 2003 12:10 pm

RE: vulgarity and slams

Postby Eric Martin » Tue May 02, 2006 9:27 am

Name: Eric Martin
Source: unca20060606.htm
Steve Barber rightly pointed out in the Forums that while it's fun and jolly to lance either other over there, or indulge in crude language to make a point, the Pavilion should be reserved for civil discourse only.

I was so appalled by "Doc's" post that I went at him hard. For that, and for not leaving my little tiff with Ms. Ruhle on the other forum, I apologize.

Eric Martin

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Harlan Ellison
Harlan Fucking Ellison
Posts: 847
Joined: Mon Jul 14, 2003 10:24 am

PLEASE NOTE

Postby Harlan Ellison » Tue May 02, 2006 10:45 am

Name: HARLAN ELLISON
Source: unca20060606.htm
RICK:

I know Doc, and he's a very decent chap but, that logged in, what he has posted here, what he has asked us to do, is without sense or merit. It is none of our business, and I ask you to delete the entire mess. As for those of you whose sole communal contribution seems to be drifting more and more toward contumely and petty name-callingall, please cease at once, or I'll sadly but definitely ask Rick to close down the site.

For good.

Iain Cullen from Glasgow is the sort of random visitor we should want to see here, and his revulsion at the rudeness that is CONSTANTLY replenished on this site by the same few folks--no matter how forgiving we try to be--is beyond the pale.

Cease now, or white noise will be all you'll get when you try to log on to Ellison Webderland. I shan't chide any of you again; I'm not your Mommy, nor is Rick your Regimentarian.

Harlan

Ray Carlson
Posts: 23
Joined: Sat May 26, 2012 7:03 pm

Amen, Unca Harlan.

Postby Ray Carlson » Tue May 02, 2006 11:10 am

Name: Ray Carlson
Source: unca20060606.htm
I kindly ask my fellow Webderlanders to please direct your attention to the top of this page each an every time youre tempted to go to the dark side, and ask yourself: Would I behave this way as a guest in Unca Harlans home? And then proceed appropriately.



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Chuck Messer
Posts: 2089
Joined: Wed May 21, 2003 9:15 pm
Location: Lakewood, Colorado

Postby Chuck Messer » Tue May 02, 2006 11:11 am

Name: Chuck Messer
Source: unca20060606.htm
Just a friendly welcome to Iain Cullen from Glasgow. Although the tenor of discussion in the Pavilion is usually spirited, it usually doesn't get this churlish.

And this, while Rick was on vacation, no less.

As I hope you can see once we're settled down and are behaving ourselves, things can be a lot more interesting that what you've seen today. There *are* standards here, and people are usually able to stay within them.

I remember reading about a Parliamentary debate during the 1930's where a young MP was tearing Winston Churchill, then a back-bencher, a new rectal orifice. He ended up with a personal attack, calling Churchill a "blackgard" and "guttersnipe".

This behavior was so beyond the pale of parliamentary etiquette, that Stanley Baldwin, Churchill's political arch-enemy, gave the young man a dressing-down and demanded he go to Churchill's home and apologize.

He showed up at the man's doorstep, suitable sheepish, to make his apology. The butler went to Churchill, who was moving his bowels at the time.

Churchill paused for a moment and shouted through the door, "Tell him I can only take one shit at a time."

I hope the parties, suitable chastised, will go back to the normal way of doing things.

Which can get a bit spirited.

Chuck

Steven Utley

Wherein I ask a favor of Harlan

Postby Steven Utley » Tue May 02, 2006 11:41 am

Name: Steven Utley
Source: unca20060606.htm
Harlan, I ask what I trust is only a small favor, on behalf of a party who is (1) a swell dancer and all-around terrific human being, (2) a newish but devoted reader of yours, (3) celebrating a birthday on May 27th, and (4) wholly ignorant of what I am about here. Rather than call, I ask this of you publicly, Godfather, NOT to put you on the spot, but because you know full well, after all these eons, how much I dislike talking on the telephone. Chalk that up to faulty toilet training.

Anyhoo: if I were to send you copies of the first four volumes of Edgeworks, would you, could you, pretty-please, autograph them, repack them, affix the postage and mailing label I'll provide, and send them on their merry way to the said unsuspecting party?

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Bud Webster
Posts: 50
Joined: Sun Aug 31, 2003 4:28 pm
Location: Virginia

IAIN:

Postby Bud Webster » Tue May 02, 2006 12:11 pm

Name: Bud Webster
Source: unca20060606.htm
No, as a rule it really isn't as rude in here as it has been the past few days. I can't apologize for the actions of anyone other than myself, but I can regret them publicly and invite you to stay.

But this IS an outpost of the Internet, a place where rudeness and incivility are so commonplace as to be inescapable. From time to time, some of that leaks over into the Pavillion, no matter how hard we may try to prevent it. The Internet celebrates vulgarity and mediocrity, the antithesis of what WE come to the Pavillion to celebrate, and there's more of them than there are of us, so we have to constantly guard against an Encroachment of Willful Ignorance (God, that's dramatic! I like that!).

It's all too easy to become embroiled in flame-wars as if they actually meant something outside of the unreality of the 'net, and I'm as prone to name-calling as anyone here, if not more so, but there are precious few places I can go where I don't find my baser instincts pandered to and encouraged. Thanks for reminding me that this is one of those places.

Rick Ollerman
Posts: 35
Joined: Mon May 08, 2006 7:59 am

Authors like Harlan?

Postby Rick Ollerman » Tue May 02, 2006 1:31 pm

Name: Rick Ollerman
Source: unca20060606.htm
I am not aware of any authors other than Harlan that have such an open and available relationship with his fans. We know more of him through his essays, reviews and non-fiction than we do of other authors, we can see the man and hear from his own lips what he is about live or through recorded sessions, and his fiction pieces are so very often simply sublime. In any media, including many of his postings here, no one strings words together the way Harlan does.

All of this adds up to the vague sense that we as fans have of *knowing* Harlan, at least to the degree this is possible and that he allows (with an enormous margin of error, of course). However much this may actually be, are there any other authors out there who have such a rapport with their fans?

The Vance Integral project was a huge effort by his (Jack Vance) fans to produce a complete set of his "corrected" work but that isn't the same thing. Although there is a large pool of dedicated fans, I only know Vance's work better, not the man.

Does anyone know of any others with this kind of rapport, or does Harlan stand alone, as I suspect?

KristinRuhle
Posts: 143
Joined: Mon Sep 27, 2004 10:23 pm
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Rudeness versus courtesy

Postby KristinRuhle » Tue May 02, 2006 2:10 pm

Name: Kristin A Ruhle
Source: unca20060606.htm
OK, the prank with the dead gopher was pretty funny. That was the Carter/Reagan era though...a more innocent time...well, they did have the Unabomber, but not 9/11 or the anthrax mailer. Being rude *might* get you what you wanted.

However, rudeness has become an inflated currency.

Road rage, air rage, bloodthirsty vengenace, smash-their-*(*! cell phone, hate hate hate HATE!!!!! Foul language, people snarling and spitting at each other like cats over the Internet...and increasingly, everywhere else. Phone wires buzzing with the ever-growing madness of the modern world.

And did I mention terrorism? - not petty revenge, but *murderous* terrorism? Conducted through the mail and otherwise?

There's too much rudeness and viciousness out there. It's gotten cheap.

That's why we should be *courteous.* Maybe there was one such a thing as "common courtesy," but it's not common anymore. Every kindness, every moment of civility, is a treasure. It's the kindness people *notice*. It's the kind things you do, that they will remember you for.

If you're somebody famous like Harlan, you can get away with a lot, but you have to take responsibility, and part of that is considering what kind of role model you've become for others. I can't speak for HE, but I think he has grown quite sensitve to this, as well as to what people will remember him for.

As for the rest of us, we should admire and imitate the GOOD and HUMANE things we see others do. There are those who are larger than life, and we see ourselves reflected in them - both the good and the bad in us.

I admit, some of my favorite Ellsionian moments are/were what one might call rude, or even half-crazy...the ones that gave him his "bad rep" But Harlan is a genius, and he's funny even when he is/acts rude. There's nothing worse than a bad Harlan imitation. If you try it, you're not funny, you're just plain rude.

Gasp! Horrors! The one and only HE actually being nice to people! *Harlan* coming within two miles of an enemy and not decking him! How SHOCKING!

Indeed.
Let's all do likewise.

Kristin
(And THANK YOU Rick K. for the nice note. By the way, I am staying totally away from the Forums for at least the next several days.)

KristinRuhle
Posts: 143
Joined: Mon Sep 27, 2004 10:23 pm
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Rudeness versus courtesy

Postby KristinRuhle » Tue May 02, 2006 2:12 pm

Name: Kristin A Ruhle
Source: unca20060606.htm
OK, the prank with the dead gopher was pretty funny. That was the Carter/Reagan era though...a more innocent time...well, they did have the Unabomber, but not 9/11 or the anthrax mailer. Being rude *might* get you what you wanted.

However, rudeness has become an inflated currency.

Road rage, air rage, bloodthirsty vengenace, smash-their-*(*! cell phone, hate hate hate HATE!!!!! Foul language, people snarling and spitting at each other like cats over the Internet...and increasingly, everywhere else. Phone wires buzzing with the ever-growing madness of the modern world.

And did I mention terrorism? - not petty revenge, but *murderous* terrorism? Conducted through the mail and otherwise?

There's too much rudeness and viciousness out there. It's gotten cheap.

That's why we should be *courteous.* Maybe there was one such a thing as "common courtesy," but it's not common anymore. Every kindness, every moment of civility, is a treasure. It's the kindness people *notice*. It's the kind things you do, that they will remember you for.

If you're somebody famous like Harlan, you can get away with a lot, but you have to take responsibility, and part of that is considering what kind of role model you've become for others. I can't speak for HE, but I think he has grown quite sensitve to this, as well as to what people will remember him for.

As for the rest of us, we should admire and imitate the GOOD and HUMANE things we see others do. There are those who are larger than life, and we see ourselves reflected in them - both the good and the bad in us.

I admit, some of my favorite Ellsionian moments are/were what one might call rude, or even half-crazy...the ones that gave him his "bad rep" But Harlan is a genius, and he's funny even when he is/acts rude. There's nothing worse than a bad Harlan imitation. If you try it, you're not funny, you're just plain rude.

Gasp! Horrors! The one and only HE actually being nice to people! *Harlan* coming within two miles of an enemy and not decking him! How SHOCKING!

Indeed.
Let's all do likewise.

Kristin
(And THANK YOU Rick K. for the nice note. By the way, I am staying totally away from the Forums for at least the next several days.)

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FrankChurch
Posts: 16283
Joined: Wed May 28, 2003 2:19 pm

Postby FrankChurch » Tue May 02, 2006 3:05 pm

Name: Frank Church
Source: unca20060606.htm
I feel a bit unclean after what Doc just did. But, as Harlan said, I will leave it be. Act like the smell in the basement is perfume.

I saw Sunset Boulevard again today and Norma Desmond went right into the ether, in right unworldly fashion. Better that a certain person do the same. Don't want this room to go bye bye; where would I find so much online love? Hehe.

-----------

I am wondering about Cindy and her legal situation. Hope all is well over there in crazy Texas. Out there they are actually proud of the white bull skulls, that line the roadways.

----------

Thank You For Smoking has to start doing better--please film God, please, I beeseetch theee.

paul
Posts: 877
Joined: Mon Sep 11, 2006 8:04 pm
Location: ATX
Contact:

Postby paul » Tue May 02, 2006 3:08 pm

Name: Paul
Source: unca20060606.htm
That is my favorite thing you've ever posted, Kristin.

There are humans out there after all, Captain.

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Ben
Posts: 185
Joined: Sat May 31, 2003 2:15 pm

Postby Ben » Tue May 02, 2006 3:14 pm

Name: Ben Winfield
Source: unca20060606.htm
I'm not sure if there would be anything more depressing than to have this site be shut down on such a miserable, sour note. I've exposed too much of my soul within the Webderland, too much of the beautiful, horrible little things that make me what I am. I've been here so long, it's taken a piece of me. It even cost me my job at one point. The Webderland is responsible for the last five years of my life, with all the ecstatic highs and crushing lows that came with them. To see it come to such an ignominious end would be devastating.

Please...don't let the trolls win. Let's buck the trend, just for once.

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Harlan Ellison
Harlan Fucking Ellison
Posts: 847
Joined: Mon Jul 14, 2003 10:24 am

Postby Harlan Ellison » Tue May 02, 2006 3:48 pm

Name: HARLAN ELLISON
Source: unca20060606.htm
STEVEN UTLEY:

For a long time Tedxican pal, the answer is always yes. Send. I'll do the rest.

As always, in high regard for your skill as a storyteller,

Yr. pal, Harlan

Tony Rabig
Posts: 230
Joined: Wed May 28, 2003 4:44 pm
Location: Parsons, KS

Just in case

Postby Tony Rabig » Tue May 02, 2006 6:10 pm

Name: Tony Rabig
Source: unca20060606.htm
I'm not a frequent poster, but I hang out here, and would miss the place if it went away. So, just in case -- Harlan, Rick, Webderland inmates, it's been a pleasure.

All the best,

--tr

Mary
Posts: 44
Joined: Sat May 26, 2012 6:24 pm

Postby Mary » Tue May 02, 2006 6:27 pm

Name: Mary
Source: unca20060606.htm
I'm not a frequent poster either, but I love this webpage, and it would break my heart no end to see it go. Those who do frequently post are the smartest people I've ever had the pleasure of reading. I also enjoy reading Harlan's responses when he drops in for a visit. If it comes to that, so be it, but I'd have to go a long way to find people as well read and educated as this group has been!


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