Pavilion Digest: May 2006

A plethora of perplexing pavilion posts. The Pavilion Annex thread, the Pavilion Discussion thread, and monthly digests of all messages from the Pavilion.

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Postby robochrist » Thu May 04, 2006 9:02 am

Name: Rob
Source: unca20060606.htm
Harlan promises Frank:

"It's BOTH of them that I love. Both the films, that is; not the both of you; and I mean that in a really manly way"

I always thought ourselves a happy, limp-wristed flowerbed in the sunshine, but it's reassuring to know SOMEONE in here insists upon being MANLY.

Re: BTTF, Zemeckis, et al

One, after what Harlan put Starlog through in that interview years ago, I don't think he should change his note on Back to the Future.

Two, I'm neither a fan of BTTF nor GUMP, but I think Zemeckis is part of the Left Wing contingent of Hollerwood. That doesn't mean there weren't Reaganesque thematic sell-outs in the 80's of course.

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Goldberg & Gump (NOT a law firm)

Postby DTS » Thu May 04, 2006 9:27 am

Name: DTS
Source: unca20060606.htm
MARK GOLDBERG: I've always been slower than the rest of the class, so don't pillory me if I'm wrong, the movie "Forrest Gump," couldn't the "life is like a box of chocolates" phrase be intended to represent the chaotic nature of the universe and of life? And couldn't the feather, blown on the breeze, represent the same? Couldn't it be a reflection of John Lennon's remark (and I'm parphrasing here), about how, "Life is something that happens while we're making plans?"
Since I DON'T want to debate that film -- or any other -- I'll stop here. Just some thoughts on how scenes in films (or some paintings, and some works of fiction) can be perceived inaccurately, OR (!) mean different things to different people. With this in mind, perhaps someday you can watch "Gump" without self-destructing.
All best --DTS

Dougie McIntosh
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Thank You to Ash / Anecdote for all . . .

Postby Dougie McIntosh » Thu May 04, 2006 9:54 am

Name: Dougie McIntosh
Source: unca20060606.htm
Ash - thanks my man, I do believe I read this one as a youngster. Wonder if it was Pat Mills, or Alan Moore, or John Grant who scripted that one . . ? no use wondering . . .


and on the subject of Churchill (prompted by Chuck's post on May 2),
I thought i'd share this one with all-a-ya :

Mr. MacRae's German class, Scotstoun, Glasgow, c.1982 :

" Pronunciation, now there's a thing . . . [removes his glasses] one of the great anecdotes from World War Two surely has to be when General Dwight D. Eisenhower and Winston S. Churchill were discussing some strategy, and their differing pronunciations of the word 'schedule' came up -

Eisenhower : It's 'sked-ule.'

Churchill : I beg to differ, General, it's 'shed-ule.'

Eisenhower : Is that so ? Then it begs the question, sir, which 'shool' did you go to ? "

I ran across this one night in March this year :

' For a restless, ambitious, impatient boy, life's great arena was not home, shul, or school or the street . . . '

- Men of Tomorrow : Geeks, Gangsters and the Birth of the Comic Book by
Gerard Jones, Chapter One, page 7 : 'The Street'
Wm. Heinemann, 2005.

One tries to keep au courant with as much as one can - I'm definitely guilty of only having browsed through Leo Rosten's The Joys of Yiddish. Sometimes, one is not trying hard enough.

After discovering this, I'm beginning to think Mr. MacRae hit us with a pun I would say most of the class, including my self, did not understand completely.

--- Dougie.

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Not in the least bit anonymous.

Postby Chuck Messer » Thu May 04, 2006 10:28 am

Name: Charles G. Messer
Source: unca20060606.htm

You've always seemed like a decent guy, and I assumed you were experiencing a momentary lapse. We all have them. I don't blame you for your outrage at situation you described.

I wish you luck in the legal matter you mentioned, and I hope you wax that muther's ass. Legally speaking, of course.


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Postby BrianSiano » Thu May 04, 2006 10:57 am

Name: Brian Siano
Source: unca20060606.htm
Doug Macintosh wrote:

"Eisenhower : It's 'sked-ule.'
Churchill : I beg to differ, General, it's 'shed-ule.'
Eisenhower : Is that so ? Then it begs the question, sir, which 'shool' did you go to ? "

And Churchill replied, "Beth Israel Elementary. My English teacher was a man named Marvin Skwartz."

Re _Back to the Future_. First one was fun, sequels got nice'n'twisty. I recall a review Harlan wrote in a later _Watching_ column-- not in my first-edition hardcover, BTW-- in which Ellison said that the sequels made a film he initially didn't like into something much better. I recall he singled out the performance of Thomas F. Wilson as the various incarnations of Biff Tannen. (I also enjoyed the cameos in the final, Western film: Pat Buttram, ZZ Top, Richard Dysart...)

As for Robert Zemeckis as a filmmaker, I _generally_ like his films, but he really seems best suited for complex and engaging comedies. His earliest films like _Used Cars_ and _I Wanna Hold Your Hand_ are phenomenal, and I'm glad that he can do technically complex films like _Who Framed Roger Rabbit?_ But once he started doing films that tried to have some seriousness, like _Contact_, or tried to have social commentary like _Death Becomes Her_, suddenly he turned into a clumsy, witless hulk with a knack for technical accomplishments. (I know I've posted before about how much I hated _Forrest Gump_.) I'm _hoping_ that the forthcoming _Beowulf_, scripted by Neil Gaiman and Roger Avary, might make a difference.

Re _Lost_. Whew. I gues other _Lost_ fans have discovered the weird online game played through the Hanso Foundation's website. It's reminiscent of a similar game created to promote the film _A.I._

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This Just In:

Postby Moderator » Thu May 04, 2006 11:01 am

Name: Steve Barber
Source: unca20060606.htm
Forgive the second post, but I know we have fans here:

'PRISONER' Remake Ready to Roll
U.K. network wants to update cult classic ... -headlines

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Steve Evil
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On the Pussification of the American male. . .

Postby Steve Evil » Thu May 04, 2006 12:49 pm

Name: Steve Evil
Source: unca20060606.htm
Bradely baby!

You're the one who suggests passivity is a feminine trait, not Zemeckis. You will also notice how aggressive the female characters are in this movie. . .

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Postby Brad Stevens » Thu May 04, 2006 1:08 pm

Name: Brad Stevens
Source: unca20060606.htm
"You're the one who suggests passivity is a feminine trait, not Zemeckis. You will also notice how aggressive the female characters are in this movie"

Do you see anything in BACK TO THE FUTURE to suggest that Zemeckis regards passivity as a positive trait in a man?

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Postby DVG » Thu May 04, 2006 1:42 pm

Name: DVG
Source: unca20060606.htm
Double post time--

Yes. Yes there is. Zemmicks obviously sympathizes with Fox's character, who is the epitome of the discretion-is-the-better-part-of-valor temperment in the face of the bully's brute stupidity and obnoxiousness. Fox outwits and/or outruns his opponents in this film--he doesn't beat them up. (He can't--the film stresses the fact that he's physically vulnerable) The one violent act by his father comes at a moment where the bully is threatening to actually commit rape. Sorry, I don't see this as anti-feminist--its more an adjunction to stand up in the face of brutality. Andrea Dworkin would have hit a lot harder and I don't think she was a Reaganite.

The only thing that marks this as an 80's film is the materialistic setting at the end, although I think this is half a joke (Fox's brother and sister were ugly and whiny at the beginning of the film--at the end they're ugly and whiny and rich.)

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Postby JohnPacer » Thu May 04, 2006 2:14 pm

Name: John Pacer
Source: unca20060606.htm
Brad said, "Do you see anything in BACK TO THE FUTURE to suggest that Zemeckis regards passivity as a positive trait in a man?"

I think you're confusing masculine aggression with standing up for oneself. Standing up to bullies like Biff, the only real aggressor, especially when you're likely to lose, like all the McFlys would, is a positive trait. The only times Marty gives in to irrational aggression, when someone calls him "chicken," he usually winds up screwing things up even more. The lesson to be learned is that if Marty had been PASSIVE and not given in to his emotions he'd be in a lot less trouble.

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PJF--in case you didn't know it already

Postby Keeney » Thu May 04, 2006 3:16 pm

Name: Keeney
Source: unca20060606.htm
this is as much for Harlan as anyone...

Philip Jose' Farmer has one of the sweetest webpages going. Dynamic, informed and FUN. They even have spermicide all over the place. No, they don't.


Which reminds me, is the first sentence of RED ORC'S RAGE the most over-the-top combination of words in this here genre? I read that the first time and hallucinated for a month.

Hoping this is news to someone,

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Postby FrankChurch » Thu May 04, 2006 3:32 pm

Name: Frank Church
Source: unca20060606.htm
Whew, I am very glad to see that Harlan saw the light on his earlier transgression and bad review of the delightful Back To The Future. As to the rest of you, I don't care about the politics or invisible politics of the film (first time for everything, eh?), I just think it is a major entertainment and sweet script, with marvelous comic acting from the great Chris Lloyd and the kookie, weirdly brilliant Crispin Glover. Sometimes a swell time at the movies trumps any social debate, unless there is some real hate or uncleanness to the entertainment in question.

You want Crispin Glover at his best, check out the thriller, Rivers Edge, where he plays a heavy metal dude, helping out his buddy, who kills his girlfriend. He plays the fried brained kid to a tee.


I would ask Harlan to give Dressed To Kill another shot. It really is a decent horror film.


Barber, if you see mayor Ray Nagen, tell him the Chocolate City has a vanilla center.

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Grandmaster Speech

Postby Steven Dooner » Thu May 04, 2006 3:43 pm

Name: Steve Dooner
Source: unca20060606.htm
Well, I sure am hoping that there will be a web video posted of the speech, or at least a transcript. Anyone got the skinny on this?


Marci Kiser

The Shadow

Postby Marci Kiser » Thu May 04, 2006 4:41 pm

Name: Marci Kiser
Source: unca20060606.htm
Going on-topic but off-message, I was thrilled to see that Harlan got the same sort of nostalgic thrill I did out of the campy Baldwin version of 'The Shadow'. The element which snared me was the way they played the relationship between Margo Kane and Lamont Cranston. Icons like Clark Kent and Lois Lane had strictly G-rated relationships. I was never sure what exactly Kane and Cranston were up to, but it didn't seem near as wholesome.

And then the Baldwin movie comes up with exchanges like:

Cranston: My thoughts are hard to miss
Kane: *stripping naked behind a curtain* And how's that?
Cranston: Psychically I am very well endowed.
Kane: *peeking naked from behind the curtain and look Cranston up and down* Mmm, I'll bet you are.


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Postby Mary » Thu May 04, 2006 6:44 pm

Name: Mary
Source: unca20060606.htm

As I was catching up with my reading today (very tired yesterday), I saw your wonderful post. You put a big smile on my face and made a long, difficult day a great one. I would consider it a honor if you had my baby, and tell Susan thank you. :)

As for everyone else...keep up the great posts! My mind wakes up when I wander in here--I need that after working with insurance policies all day!

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