Pavilion Digest: April 2006

A plethora of perplexing pavilion posts. The Pavilion Annex thread, the Pavilion Discussion thread, and monthly digests of all messages from the Pavilion.

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Postby DTS » Fri Apr 28, 2006 7:13 pm

Name: DTS
Source: unca20060606.htm
ABOUT THE POST BELOW: "too" instead of "to"
(And NOW I really WILL stop posting for three days -- at least --sorry, Rick, but I felt the need to come to Harlan's defense)

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Postby admin » Fri Apr 28, 2006 8:03 pm

Name: Rick Wyatt
Source: unca20060606.htm
I leave for vacation in Vegas tomorrow. My ability to moderate here will be limited (but not nonexistent).

I would consider it a favor if the ever-flowing font of Judgement and Condemnation which characterizes this board could be slowed to a trickle in my absence. Or at the very least if people could be obliged to follow the few simple rules.

As for the current discussion of fisticuffs, well. For good or bad, Harlan is a boiling point. He is a fracture through which the world's torment over perceived injustice manifests.

Like Isaac Asimov, I lament the fact that so much of Harlan's energy winds up being wasted on anger and the consequent consideration or execution of acts of simple revenge. But if that great man who Harlan loved so much was unable to change his friend's nature in the slightest, I'm inclined to believe that nature inviolate and unchangeable. That rage is essential to who Harlan is.

It's useless to try to argue down the North Wind. You stay out of his way or you buy a good stiff coat.

Kristin Ruhl

Oh God - what have I done? (LONG)

Postby Kristin Ruhl » Fri Apr 28, 2006 8:14 pm

Name: Kristin Ruhl
Source: unca20060606.htm

I am to blame, indirectly at the very least and perhaps directly, for starting a flame war(?) on another board,(the nard one?) and for some unpleasant talk on the Forum. Mea maxima culpa. I take responsiblity. I did not know exactly what Frank was going to say on Harlan's behalf, but I VERY foolishly suggested (on the Forum) he say something. What was said was something Frank had no right to say - not merely, "Harlan is a good guy," but claiming to speak for Harlan: "Harlan is very angry at you." It could even have been true, but had he and Frank just spoken directly??? FRANK, YOU HAD NO RIGHT. And I am ashamed of myself for having perpetrated such a load of bat shit. Maybe it came from a perverse desire on my part to make a few more friends - and choosing the wrong person. Well I KNOW who my friends here are, at least the ones I've *actually met*, or vague acquaintances, anyway - the internet isn't a place you get to know anyone well enough to really claim friendship. And there are the people who are just NAMES and not even real names.

Duane: I figure you for a pretty sane person, and I've acquired a BAD name now on the Forum. Your objecting to my "voice" really hit hard.

Eric: Your Forum posts upset me - OK, I get long winded here in the Pavvy - a LOT of that is cause I need to stay within the rules of ONE PER DAY, and sometimes I feel the need to speak, AND NOT ALL OF IT IS DIRECTLY TO HARLAN. I have to save up a day's worth of thoughts in advance. I know I said some shitty, whiney things once - that were even taken as business complaints or impugning Susan's honor - and I have been working to atone for those. I stand up for her business integrity and wonderful personality every chance I get. If Harlan cheews me out, or someone else I RESPECT, I can take that. But I can't take it from YOU.

But even WORSE, I feel I am DIRECTLY responsible for sic'ing ...if that is the right word....Harlan on his enemy. I am the one who named the Name of the Evil One. I keep telling myself, if Harlan hadn't heard it from me he'd have heard it from somewhere else...but I AM to blame for "summoning the devil" if that's the right metaphor.

There's months to go before LAcon, and Harlan will be speaking to many people he knows a heckuva lot better than me, but I wanna hear soon this works out okay so I can sleep at night. (Where *would* I contact Anne McCaffrey? She's a wonderful lady, and an Elder, and I now violence isn't something *she* would go encouraging!) Myself, I am the last person in the world who can be a diplomat!

Harlan, there are other names on that con-guest-list besides your enemy. Lots of them are your friends. Anne and her son Todd, JMS, Walter Koenig. I'm sure thay'd rather enjoy a night out with you in a fine LA-area restaurant than visit you in jail. So think of your friends, AND you dear wife, whose love for you (and vice versa) I find incredibly touching.

Susan...are you reading this? (You probably DO have my contact info from one of my book orders if you keep that!)

Oh, and're one of the Nice People I was talking about, and I'm sorry if I now look bad in your eyes. We've met and I respect you a good deal more than the "Bad who Drive Out The Good" few people here and on the forum board.

(Was said act of violence the same one mentioned in the article "Bugfuck" on this site? 1988, some SFWA function??? All I can say is, an organization that not only invites you back, but gives you a friggin TROPHY, after you crash their party and beat up someone is pretty amazing. But maybe I'm wrong, and it was something else.)

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Postby Eric Martin » Fri Apr 28, 2006 8:25 pm

Name: Eric Martin
Source: unca20060606.htm
The north wind is insensate, Rick. Harlan is not. This desire is a choice, made by someone who is learned, and who has had a long, examined life. There are no excuses here.

Morons like DTS may find it satisfying to encourage a 70+ year old recently-anointed grandmaster, a presumed leader and role model in his field, an established writer with a potential legacy, to go punch some aging clown at a convention. And I'm sure there are others here who would join the cheers, not because the aging clown means anything to them, but because they would get some odd catharsis from reading about their hero hitting people...for honor, of course.

I find it all pathetic, distracting, and really damaging not only to the writer and his claim to literary respect, but to the supposedly intelligent people who call themselves his fans.

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Postby KristinRuhle » Fri Apr 28, 2006 8:39 pm

Name: Kristin A Ruhle
Source: unca20060606.htm
RICK - sorry for the second post but mine was in progress as you were posting your own position, which I AM rather inclined to agree with - NOW I look silly. I know, I can't "intervene," there is no point in trying, not when Asimov could not, not when Susan cannot. But i meant to be SINCERE.

That's all.


Salvor Hardin

Let's boil this down:

Postby Salvor Hardin » Fri Apr 28, 2006 9:12 pm

Name: Salvor Hardin
Source: unca20060606.htm
"Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent."
~Isaac Asimov

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Postby rich » Sat Apr 29, 2006 4:25 am

Name: rich
Source: unca20060606.htm
Oh, I can tsk-tsk. I can also cluck-cluck, do a heavy sigh, shake my head slightly, throw up my hands in a "whattayagonnado" gesture, and/or shrug in a knowing sort of existential way.

And I'm not tsk-tsking the love and affection that caused you to do what you thought would defend the honor of A Fine Man.

But it's done. Why sully yourself for someone who doesn't deserve any attention you give him? Quite frankly, if he's plugging a book, what better way to get some PR than to "accidentally" bump into you? Thus, helping him in a roundabout way, and probably selling two more books instead of the none he would've sold if he hadn't bumped into you. That's where the tsk-tsk comes in.

So I've done my matronly duty, and you'll probably still get your clothes dirty before church, and take the shortcut through the woods instead of staying on the sidewalk where Officer O'Mulligan can see you...but just make sure you're home before dark, and wear your galoshes 'cause it looks like rain.

And I say no more on the subject.

R. Treehorn

Postby R. Treehorn » Sat Apr 29, 2006 4:31 am

Name: R. Treehorn
Source: unca20060606.htm
All this does allow for an homage to Woody Allen, though:

'And we arrived late in Colorado for WorldCon 1977. It was 1989. And Dan Simmons showed me his new novel, The War of the Worlds. I said it was a good book, but not a great book, and besides H.G. Wells had already written it in 1898. We laughed.

Ellison punched me in the mouth.

And we were at NovaCon in 1978 and John Varley walked by, and Ursula LeGuin asked me, is this Varley a boy of 17 or a man of 18? And I said, sometimes a man of 18 can look like a boy of 17, and sometimes a boy of 17 can look like a man of 18. That's the way it is with these 70's sf writers. We laughed.

Ellison punched me in the mouth.'

Alan Coil
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Postby Alan Coil » Sat Apr 29, 2006 5:39 am

Name: Alan Coil
Source: unca20060606.htm
"Que sera sera"
"Whatever will be will be"
"The future's not ours to see"
"Que sera sera"

"Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar." (Freud)

"Sometimes violence IS the answer." (Alan Coil)

Shane Shellenbarger
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Grand master of fabulism - by Kerry Lengel of The Arizona Re

Postby Shane Shellenbarger » Sat Apr 29, 2006 5:57 am

Name: Shane Shellenbarger
Source: unca20060606.htm
Grand master of fabulism

Kerry Lengel
The Arizona Republic
Apr. 28, 2006 04:14 PM ... ula28.html

Rick Ollerman
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Fight Club

Postby Rick Ollerman » Sat Apr 29, 2006 6:35 am

Name: Rick Ollerman
Source: unca20060606.htm
We all do things according to our own code of ethics but when we project our own onto others, we lose every time. It'll never fly, Orville. Judge not, and all that. Besides, it worked for the legend of Hemingway, didn't it?

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This is as far as I can go on this.

Postby BrianSiano » Sat Apr 29, 2006 6:51 am

Name: Brian Siano
Source: unca20060606.htm
Harlan, don't do it. Don't drop violence upon Chris Priest. I know it'd be very, very satisfying, but don't do it. You are more than capable of ruining him in other ways; spread the word eloquently enough, and Priest might not be able to go anywhere at the SFWA without people looking at him like he's been caught with a child under his grimy raincoat.

It's your battle, and I have no idea what the issue is with Priest and James Blish, so I don't know how deserving the guy is of unholy wrath. And you'll do what you decide to do. But I did want to at least _suggest_ a different tactic.

But whatever you decide, good luck.

Paul L
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Tact and Tactics

Postby Paul L » Sat Apr 29, 2006 7:13 am

Name: Paul Lorello
Source: unca20060606.htm
Judging from what little I know of Harlan Ellison (through his writing), it seems to me that he probably has already considered different tactics. What we may be forgetting here is that all considered tactics go the way of the fifth Beatle when one is confronted with the prospective recipient of one's anger _in the flesh_.

The only thing Harlan really has to consider is responsibility for his actions. And from the looks of it, he's done that too.

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Postby Jim Davis » Sat Apr 29, 2006 8:01 am

Name: Jim Davis
Source: unca20060606.htm
I was just a little kid when James Blish died, so I never got to meet him, but his books were so important to me growing up. BLACK EASTER, THE DAY AFTER JUDGMENT, DOCTOR MIRABLIS, A CASE OF CONSCIENCE, and CITIES IN FLIGHT were so erudite, so insightful and witty, that I was actually WISER for having read them. So trust me when I say my respect for him couldn't be higher, and anyone who made bones off his suffering is a first-class asshole.

As far as the Position Paper goes, though . . .

Like I said, I never knew Blish, but if he possessed in everyday life even a tiny fraction of the wisdom and class displayed in his books, I can't imagine he would be happy with what you're planning to do, Harlan. Whatever vile thing Christopher Priest said thirty years ago, Jim Blish is WELL beyond caring about it. All punching CP will accomplish is a night in jail, a possible lawsuit, and fodder for message board threads for the next thousand years or so. I'm not saying you have to love the guy, or even tolerate his presence; he may well deserve every drop of venom you have for him. But purposely seeking him out and attacking him? Oh, come on, Harlan. Punching CP out will give him and his supporters ammunition for generations to come, and confirm every awful thing they've ever claimed about you.

You want revenge, REAL revenge, on this guy? Listen to Uncle Jim, then:

Go to LACon, have a great time with your friends, and never give him another thought.

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Postby Moderator » Sat Apr 29, 2006 8:21 am

Name: Steve Barber
Source: unca20060606.htm
As a young boy one of my favorite books was this story entitled THE PHANTOM TOLLBOOTH. It's a wonderful read, all full of fascinating characters and special events. You probably all know it well.

There's one particularly sequence in which our hero, Milo, is walking along a road and arrives at a thought -- only to be lifted off the road and catapulted to a far-off island. The island in question is the land of Conclusions. And the only way to get there is to jump.

Just my less-than-direct thoughts on the whole Fracas In OC thread...

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