Pavilion Digest: April 2006

A plethora of perplexing pavilion posts. The Pavilion Annex thread, the Pavilion Discussion thread, and monthly digests of all messages from the Pavilion.

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Keeney
Posts: 36
Joined: Fri Dec 03, 2010 4:21 pm

credibility

Postby Keeney » Fri Apr 28, 2006 12:34 pm

Name: Keeney
Source: unca20060606.htm
FinderDoug--Thank you for dealing with that issue more succinctly than I could have. Now we have proof that Frank tells lies and does really dumb things. Oh, what would Chomsky say?

Eric Martin--Did you just Rodney King us? You're not turning Mother Teresa on us, are you?

Paul Lorello--you're welcome...errrr...I mean, I'm sorry...?

Maybe I can help. Over the next few days I will transcribe "No, No, Not Rogov!" for you, and I will do it here so everyone else can enjoy the story as well.

Of course, in order to meet the stringent guidelines of this forum, I shall only be able to post a phrase or two at a time.

here goes..."That golden shape on the golden steps..."
copyright (little circly thingie) 1958 Quinn Publishing Co. First appeared in WORLDS OF IF, February 1959--there you are, a mini-burger of Linebarger.



Not really,
Rick



paul
Posts: 877
Joined: Mon Sep 11, 2006 8:04 pm
Location: ATX
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Silliness- all of it.

Postby paul » Fri Apr 28, 2006 1:48 pm

Name: Paul
Source: unca20060606.htm
Let the name of Priest and the fecundity of the ideas prescribed therein his ouvre be banished from this place evermore.
Seriously. The Man don't need to be reminded of the birds that pooped on his head.
I have no doubt that HE will let us know if things don't work out, if that is the case.

At the first Lollapalooza Jello did a nice rant which was revamped for the live Ministry video IN CASE YOU DIDN'T FEEL LIKE SHOWING UP. A retake on the national anthem (I pledge defiance to the unites snakes of america...etc), it's worth a listen, if just for the angry punkiness-in-grand-spectater-fashion.

Since no one's mentioned this yet, i guess i will. http://www.thecrimson.com/article.aspx?ref=513112 . Not EVERY ONE, but many of todays babies know not the history of the work ethic, nor the ideal of original work, or even the checking of the historical veracity of their facts. I know we reinterpret the ideas we assimilated in our readings, i get that, really. But to get to a point of having, however un-intentionally, a semi-plageristic book even be COVERED by the media, whom could give a fuck about real literature, screams inadequacy of a high order. Sure, i did my version of "At The Crossroads" when i was a kid, but i learned enough, quickly enough, to realize just how juvenilia it was. I just hope this was an honest mistake, to the point of not having to be branded for life. But then again, she does say she loves "trashy romance mags." Granted, to each their own. Perhaps she will start to delve heavily into a richer tapestry of imagination that is her own, or at the least, give the NY Times a replacement for Blair.
I'm just glad that a general amount of press realizes this is a foolish thing. People actually realized they had READ THE SAME THING BEFORE.
NewsFlash!
VARIETY! : The Race Continues- Six Screenwriters Vie For The Title Credits To An As-Yet Unpublished Novel!!
Says Insider: "We don't know WHEN we'll get the rights, but you can be sure we'll have the script ready when we do."



Miek Jacka

Arizona Republic Article

Postby Miek Jacka » Fri Apr 28, 2006 1:55 pm

Name: Miek Jacka
Source: unca20060606.htm
Harlan,

My copy is yours (that is, after I receive it.) I assume you would rather it was mailed also. And, I've seen this before but forgotten the answer - just the article, the section of the paper, or the whole blinking thing?

Mike

Frank 'egg on his face' Church

Postby Frank 'egg on his face' Church » Fri Apr 28, 2006 2:48 pm

Name: Frank 'egg on his face' Church
Source: unca20060606.htm
Actually, Doug, I tried to egg on Chapman, so that either he or Nardwuar could comment, or at least burp, I didn't actually expect them to respond, plus I thought this AO Chapman was somehow gone from the scene, anyway.

If my post offended Harlan, I am sorry. He knows how I feel about him. He is a hero and has been pretty nice to me, even though I continue to goat his ire.

I do have egg on my face, but meant no illness of heart or mind. Hyperbole rules my soul at times, but my heart is filled with admiration for our fearless leader. He could have told me to buzz away months ago but didn't, and for that I thank him.

The rest of you can be quite hateful to me, and it hurts my feelings--believe me, I do have feelings. Just because I act up does not mean that I am some alien spawn. I fire back, knowing that is the only real power that I have. I am a man of peace, and words make for precise amunition.

Better that we smoke the peace pipe and continue to laugh at the malcontents in the world of weird that is Amerikkka.

All of you have a good day and weekend.

rich
Posts: 78
Joined: Sat May 26, 2012 6:25 pm

Postby rich » Fri Apr 28, 2006 3:12 pm

Name: rich
Source: unca20060606.htm
For the record, I'm familiar with the hullabaloo surrounding Harlan Ellison and Christopher Priest.

The point I was trying to communicate (apparently not a good job, either) to everyone is reflected in some of the responses after my first post:

Steve P.-O.: "A Google search of "Christopher Priest Harlan Ellison" will soon tell you all you need to know on that topic. No need to discuss hereabouts, I'd venture."

paul: "Let the name of Priest and the fecundity of the ideas prescribed therein his ouvre be banished from this place evermore. Seriously. The Man don't need to be reminded of the birds that pooped on his head."

Harlan Ellison, for those that don't remember, is the one that brought this subject up. Not Steve Barber, not Kristin, not Alan, not rich...Harlan.

So, AGAIN, why is this "interesting" that Harlan has to bring this up? Is he going to be on a panel with the guy? Is there going to be a fight? And why, after HE brings the subject up, is everyone ready to put a lid on it?

Should it be pointed out that THE LAST DANGEROUS VISIONS will never see print? And should it also be pointed out that no one other than the authors could really give a shit?

So who cares what Priest has to say on the subject? And, quite frankly at this point, who cares what Harlan has to say on the subject? That's all shit from the last century. As Eric suggested, it's time to move on without making comments about whether it's "interesting" or giving away his family for tickets. (I'm not picking on paul; I thought the sentiment had some truth to it, and I would hazard a guess that most on here would do the same for an opportunity to see fireworks.)

So if no one really wants to talk about it then shut the fuck up about it.


(And I will never double post again.)

DTS
Posts: 197
Joined: Thu Aug 13, 2009 12:04 am

Harlan's Nebula Moment in the Sun this year

Postby DTS » Fri Apr 28, 2006 4:47 pm

Name: DTS
Source: unca20060606.htm
HARLAN: I know Connie -- and a LOT of other people -- will no doubt do a smash-up job of delivering speeches and such, but if you are planning to cobble up a speech especially for the event, and if it's anything as terrific as "How You Blew $15 Million Dollars a Week, Avoided Having an Adenoid-Shaped Swimming Pool in Your Backyard, Missed the Opportunity to Have a Mutually Destructive Love Affair with Clint Eastwood and/or Raquel Welch, and Otherwise Pissed Me Off," the speech you read the last time you attended a Nebula event, I hope you'll have it published somewhere.

Once again, congrats -- couldn't have happened to a more deserving writer and if I don't get a chance to type it before then, you & Susan have a safe and wonderful trip next weekend.

All best,

Dorman
P.S. Does anybody know how ALL of the folks in WEBDERLAND can lobby the Mystery Writers of America to get Harlan one of THEIR Lifetime Achievements? He deserves one SOLELY for his efforts to make sure the writers of that organization got paid for inclusion in the anthology's published by the MWA -- of course, stories like "Daniel White For the Greater Good," "The Whimper of Whipped Dogs," "Soft Monkey," "Mefisto in Onyx," "Jane Doe 112," "Base," and "Pulling Hard Time" certainly go a long way toward proving his worth, too.

tyg
Posts: 17
Joined: Thu Aug 03, 2006 3:28 pm

Postby tyg » Fri Apr 28, 2006 5:05 pm

Name: Tom Galloway
Source: unca20060606.htm
Priest, the comics writer, doesn't do cons or really any sort of personal appearances, at least not for quite a while. And per his blog, I don't see that changing anytime soon.

Priest, the Brit, annoyed me at last year's Worldcon at which he was a GoH. As such, he presented the Best Novel category. And did a bit which, to me, screamed "See how clever I am" as he gave mock descriptions and mixed up titles and authors for the nominees...*never giving the actual names of the nominated works or authors*. Yeah, they're in the program book and the like, but this is their moment in the spotlight and they deserved to have their names and titles read out loud and correctly at the ceremony.

Rick Ollerman
Posts: 35
Joined: Mon May 08, 2006 7:59 am

Disingenuous

Postby Rick Ollerman » Fri Apr 28, 2006 6:04 pm

Name: Rick Ollerman
Source: unca20060606.htm
I'm not sure what difference it makes whether Frank was trying to "burp" either the Canadians or Harlan Ellison. It's no more okay to mindlessly needle those guys any more than it would be to do it to Harlan. The apology sounds like, "Whoops, I got caught," not, "Whoops, I was wrong." He may apologize for hurting feelings but what about the lack of judgement and respect for others?

The board is supposed to discuss Ellison and his work so I guess this kind of thing qualifies more than someone who doesn't know William Shatner calling him a dirty word, or someone posting links on political issues.

I had the opportunity to introduce myself to Harlan in Atlanta a few years ago but I didn't take it, choosing to sit quietly two feet away while other people approached him and pumped his hand. My admiration for the man is second to none but what was I going to say in a spare ten or fifteen seconds? Gee, Mr. Ellison, I really admire your work...

I didn't want to be one of *those* people, so I sat. There are a few people here that I don't want to be, either. Aren't there any more Minicon stories? Anyone have anything to discuss about any of Harlan's actual work? By all means, bring on the Nebula discussions.

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Harlan Ellison
Harlan Fucking Ellison
Posts: 847
Joined: Mon Jul 14, 2003 10:24 am

POSITION PAPER

Postby Harlan Ellison » Fri Apr 28, 2006 6:04 pm

Name: HARLAN ELLISON
Source: unca20060606.htm
Once upon a time, an extremely malicious and degenerate elf made a monstrous public comment, in print (albeit under a pseudonym that was an open secret), about A Fine Man who had recently died of a terrible cancer. This Fine Man was much beloved, and had never ever crossed paths with the awful elf, nor had he ever spoken of him. (It is likely The Fine Man had never even heard of the elf.) The Fine Man's friends were so horrified by this malignant smartass disrespect, existence of which had to be kept from the eyes of The Fine Man's widow and two sons, that one of The Fine Man's friends vowed he would visit upon the pustulent elf a public retribution, and bedamned to whatever proper legal punishment might follow.

And so it came to pass that when next the friend of The Fine Man learned that the foul elf was to appear in public, though it was only a day or so hence, and a full continent separated them, the friend of The Fine Man journeyed to that venue, told everyone he met that he was seeking retribution against the toadlike elf, and asked them all to bruit the word about hill and dale and delicatessen, so that no one could ever accuse the friend of The Fine Man of bushwhack, backstab, duplicity, lying in wait, or ambush.

And yet, further, it came to pass, that when the friend of The Fine Man, who had been loved by all and who had saddened everyone by his passing, locked eyes with the vile and corrupt elf, he came to him quickly, stared at him for a moment as a sneer--that said, you won't touch me in front of forty or so onlookers--manifested itself on the elf's delicate features, and without a word hit the cocksucker so hard he went back out through a doorway, hit the corridor wall behind him, and crumpled to the floor, on which he lay as the friend of The Fine Man squatted atop him, slapping him repeatedly and naming exactly for whom each slap was being delivered.

There are those who post here currently, who were in that place, at that time, who can attest to the accuracy of that which I have reported.

So ...

In truth, and in fact, and in small, my clenched teeth and desire to come within arm's-length of the UK novelist named Christopher Priest--who others have advised will be in attendance at the LACon, as will I for one day--has far far far less to do with THE LAST DANGEROUS VISIONS or Mr. Priest's scurrilous chapbook anent same, than it has to do with my love and friendship for the late James Blish.

Ask Anne McCaffrey, if you are either a friend of Mr. Priest, or you doubt my telling of these tales.

I am prepared to go to jail.

Indeed, folks, have a good day and a pleasant weekend. And do not sweat it, Frank. As for Rich...if you go back and look, you'll see that my teeny post was in response to an earlier entry by someone else entirely. But if you wish to tsk-tsk me on any grounds whatever re this matter, knock yerself out, kid.

Yr. pal, Harlan

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Harlan Ellison
Harlan Fucking Ellison
Posts: 847
Joined: Mon Jul 14, 2003 10:24 am

Postby Harlan Ellison » Fri Apr 28, 2006 6:08 pm

Name: HARLAN ELLISON
Source: unca20060606.htm

RICK OLLERMAN: Don't ever do that again. When we next dog-paddle in the same pool, make yourself known; and we'll squeak rubber duckies at each other, as friends really ought.

Yr. pal, Harlan

Todd Cassel
Posts: 88
Joined: Wed May 28, 2003 9:01 pm
Location: Phoenix, AZ

Postby Todd Cassel » Fri Apr 28, 2006 6:23 pm

Name: Todd Cassel
Source: unca20060606.htm
Everyone, please remember, Frank Church is a character. Not a personality....he is a character played by an actor on the internet.

He is not Frank Church, the man who gives a bad name to Liberals, he is Paul Kavin, a sad person on the internet getting attention by pretending to be a person of interest.

Remember our Canadian couple from years past: you are only fooling yourself if you think anything under the name Frank Church is coming from a genuine person. My bet is that he not only voted for George Bush, but that he donated to his campaign.

-TODD

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Duane
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Location: Los Angeles, CA
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Postby Duane » Fri Apr 28, 2006 6:40 pm

Name: Duane
Source: unca20060606.htm
I don't think he's all that bad.

However, there is one thing I'd like to say: I have, for a fact, become a more tolerant, understanding, RATIONAL person over the last few years in no small part because of my participation here. And believe me, I rolled into this joint festooned with knee jerk idiocy.

Frank saw me coming a mile off (among others), and as a result I did my share of laps around here with my knees together and holding a baggie of ice, if you know what I mean.

We all grow in different ways and at different rates, and sometimes growth opportunities come unbidden. But they do come. Hopefully, we learn. Or life learns us.....

....right in the shorts.

Eric Martin
Banned
Posts: 546
Joined: Wed May 28, 2003 12:10 pm

Postby Eric Martin » Fri Apr 28, 2006 6:45 pm

Name: Eric Martin
Source: unca20060606.htm
>without a word hit the cocksucker so hard he went back out through a doorway, hit the corridor wall behind him,<

The Fine Man may have indeed been fine, but this act of violence is nothing to be proud of, and if anything does the reputation of the fine man shame. It's not a boon to have friends who wander around punching people through doorways in their name because of "monstrous public comments," Harlan.

I wouldn't dine out on this one any more -- your action here was anything but fine.



Rick Ollerman
Posts: 35
Joined: Mon May 08, 2006 7:59 am

Duck ponds

Postby Rick Ollerman » Fri Apr 28, 2006 7:00 pm

Name: Rick Ollerman
Source: unca20060606.htm
Mr. Ellison: My wife told me to up and get my butt on a plane to Minicon but we couldn't swing the schedule. It's slightly ironic in that I'm from Minneapolis and used to go to Minicons nearly thirty years ago where I actually bought some of your books; I also was privileged to see and hear people like Theodore Sturgeon. It would have been a sweet moment to be able to attend this year and possibly meet yourself.

I'll treat your admonition as an invitation to approach and when circumstances next align appropriately, I'll shake your hand and fumble for words. Thank you for your grace.

DTS
Posts: 197
Joined: Thu Aug 13, 2009 12:04 am

Eric's comment to Harlan...and the nature of the beast

Postby DTS » Fri Apr 28, 2006 7:10 pm

Name: DTS
Source: unca20060606.htm
ERIC: Harlan NEVER claimed that _HE_ was fine -- or that any of his actions were fine. PAY ATTENTION you knucklehead: he said his _friend_ was fine. Furthermore, Harlan has never claimed to be any better -- when it comes to gut reactions and hormone-driven desires -- than the rest of us schlubs. So if anger at the detestable crap that Priest said about Blish overtakes him again and Harlan decides to smack Priest upside his water-filled melon, I say, "Make sure he bounces off the wall, Harlan."

As Corneille wrote in "Heraclius": "Violence is just where kindness is vain."

There are a handful of assholes whose faces I would have _no problem_ punching should an opporunity ever present itself (unlike Harlan, I prefer to do it when it's just me and him, and he can't go whining to the po-lice later on). In fact, if I saw most of these assholes stuck in a burning vehicle I would smile, wave, and _slowly_ stroll to a phone to call the fire dept. I'm not bragging, just stating a fact. And the fact is, for some of us -- whether because we have been emotionally damaged one to many times or feel the hurt and outrage far deeper than we should -- the desire for vengeance runs deep. And when it comes to certain people (at least where _I'm_ concerned, I can't speak for Harlan)...when it comes to certain people, the lack of their presence on the earth would _not_ leave an empty, unfillable space -- neither in the local landscape nor, I suspect, in the secret hearts of those who truly know them.
--DTS



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