Pavilion Digest: April 2006

A plethora of perplexing pavilion posts. The Pavilion Annex thread, the Pavilion Discussion thread, and monthly digests of all messages from the Pavilion.

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Chris Seggerman
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Joined: Tue May 30, 2006 11:14 am

Webderlander Nebula Roll Call?

Postby Chris Seggerman » Tue Apr 25, 2006 2:51 pm

Name: Chris Seggerman
Source: unca20060606.htm

I've been checking the board for a few pages back looking for which folks are attending the Nebulas. I see Todd Cassell will be there. I would really like to lay eyes on some of you. I will be there at least on Friday and Saturday. Is there some kind of secret handshake, special password or dark ritual I can use to recognize the Webderlanders?



Shane Shellenbarger
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A HISTORY OF VIOLENCE scripter writes with Harlan

Postby Shane Shellenbarger » Tue Apr 25, 2006 2:57 pm

Name: Shane Shellenbarger
Source: unca20060606.htm
April 25: VIOLENCE scripter does MASTERS OF SCI-FI

Eric Martin
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Postby Eric Martin » Tue Apr 25, 2006 3:41 pm

Name: Eric Martin
Source: unca20060606.htm
>Is there some kind of secret handshake<

Place both thumbs on either side of your eye sockets. Extend your palms upward and slanted out, making a W with your head as the center.

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Postby FrankChurch » Tue Apr 25, 2006 4:07 pm

Name: Frank Church
Source: unca20060606.htm
I always thought Wizards was pretty good. I usally avoid the sword and sorcery thing, but I do remember a decent animated film. I do agree with Brian that Cool World was really bad. Harlan, try to rethink that one.


Kristin, I love jazz, plus most forms of music, as long as the music contains heart, soul, courage and a mystical import. Mystery and fire rule my life and I hope my artistic design weaves into that sort of line.

Sure, punk is great; when it is really good there is no music as honest about the world or about human nature. You have to scour the margins to find the best stuff, but when you do you will kiss a gerbil and sell your ruby slippers to Satan.


Man, this Matt Taibbi charactor is one whipsmart new writer. He usually writes for Rolling Stone, but his stuff can also be found at the Nypress site. He outwrites cretins like Hitchens any day.

Look at him giving it to the pompous Thomas Friedman:

"This would be a small thing were it not for the overall pattern. Thomas Friedman does not get these things right even by accident. It's not that he occasionally screws up and fails to make his metaphors and images agree. It's that he always screws it up. He has an anti-ear, and it's absolutely infallible; he is a Joyce or a Flaubert in reverse, incapable of rendering even the smallest details without genius. The difference between Friedman and an ordinary bad writer is that an ordinary bad writer will, say, call some businessman a shark and have him say some tired, uninspired piece of dialogue: Friedman will have him spout it. And that's guaranteed, every single time. He never misses."

The guy is a hoot. A younger Harlan.


You all want to see Bill O'Reilly, the writer. Remember, this man has published five books, FIVE! All huge best sellers, even though he may be the single worst writer in American history. That is saying something. From his only novel, Those Who Trespass:

"Stripping off her bathing-suit, she walked into the huge shower. She pulled the lime green curtain across the entrance and then set the water for a tepid 75-degrees. The spray felt great against her skin as she ducked her head underneath the nozzle. Closing her eyes she concentrated on the tingling sensation of water flowing against her body. Suddenly another sensation entered, Ashley felt two large hands wrap themselves around her breasts and hot breathe on the back of her neck. She opened her eyes wide and giggled, "I thought you drowned out there snorkel man."

Tommy O'Malley was naked and at attention. "Drowning is not an option", he said, "unless of course you beg me to perform unnatural acts right here in this shower."

This is his idea of sexy. I will have a boner problem for about a week now.


Postby Marty » Tue Apr 25, 2006 4:55 pm

Name: Marty
Source: unca20060606.htm
Harlan:- Thank you for the English lesson. I shall await the beating I will receive from my wife (an English professor). If only the English could speak English we would get on so well in America.


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Postby paul » Tue Apr 25, 2006 5:05 pm

Name: Paul
Source: unca20060606.htm
Attending the Nebulas with bells on.. and just possibly jester shoes and a wimple too.
Kristin- Hie thee to a musicshop and get you some Chieftains. All of them. It doesn't matter how "commercial" folks make them out to be (if only because they recognize the name), watching 80 year old guys hump it around the stage like Jagger is a sight to behold. Oh yes, they're very good.

Shatner- I don't know the man, and art is subjective, but i know what i like. A self deprecating ego that honestly doesn't know why his serious stuff is funny and continues to, if not take his craft too very seriously, at least have much fun as he can with it. And if you haven't seen The Intruder (A.K.A. Shame), you may be under the misapprehension that Shatner cannot act at all. Hammy? Yes. Overblown? Yes. But dynamic as hell. The mob rousing scenes are straight out of the 40's tent revival meetings. We may not know what's good for us, but we know what makes us smile. When the Apocalypse is upon us, it's anchorman Shatner i want to deliver the news. I at least want to go out grinning.

Tom Morgan- All i have to say is: Yeah, right on. Steve Miller sucks the bong of doltness. Man, you can't buy witty opinions like that.

Chris S.-- webderlanders will be in the room with the floor bowing under the weight of the egos communing therein.

Harlan, the folks you interviewed with probably aren't the same, but is there any truth to the rumour about a documentary crew that was to be following you 'round the Nebulas?
Wait! I see... a working title..."On the Hoof and Off the Cuff"... nah, i'll stick to my day job.

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Harlan Ellison
Harlan Fucking Ellison
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Postby Harlan Ellison » Tue Apr 25, 2006 5:22 pm

Source: unca20060606.htm

Of COURSE Bakshi's COOL WORLD was, wait, super-size was gawdAWFul...where did I say otherwise?

Nonetheless (and I don't have to rethink this), it is a daring piece of trash.

Tsk tsk, chilluns.

Yr, pal, Harlan

Edo Van Ede

Expletive Delet- Ed- o?

Postby Edo Van Ede » Tue Apr 25, 2006 5:35 pm

Name: Edo Van Ede
Source: unca20060606.htm

Lighten up on the 'copycat' worries.

I have other irons in the filmic fire (sold a screenplay, my first, just recently, based on the early life of a famous French guy who married his girlfriend after 50 years, and she died two weeks later ...which should be clues enough for any curious googol-er... and it is copyrighted and is registered with the WGA-East, so, when I think it is unique enough to be held tight to the vest, I do the 'protection' work... hopefully on the screen in a few years...).

But I wasn't 'giving anything away' that isn't already in Greek myth (Epimetheus), Mary Shelley, and every scientist's deservedly-paranoid subconscious.

Thought that the arcana of protein research might be more fruitful for bandying about than what an asshole William "Judgment at Nuremberg" Shat(-upon-) ner is, isn't, will, or won't be.

The fantasy (in the non-existent, and probably going to remain there) [deleted] film excerpt was meant more as a light linguistic pun ("Will humanity become square?") mocking the "usual suspects" of speculative-fictional cliches, than a real potentially-sue-able-over idea (unless "The Brain from Planet Arous" is a 'real' idea).

I guess my tossed-off spoof (on one more doom-in-a-box kind of all-too-true "we don't-know-what-the-fux-we're-doing-but-ain't-it-amazing?!" research) seemed 'real', even if not mean to be.

But, understandable, I guess, considering the level of pithed-Hollywood (and I'm not lisping, but talking about frogs in a dish) fare.

Not that I mock their cash. (Mea culpable.)

FUNGIble money.

Now, there's an idea! (A mold that only attacks paper money! And all the world is LEFT bankrupt by a parsimonious spore!)

I guess I'll have to set up a www.STEAL_THIS_IDEA- (instant public domain material) website for excess notions that I know I won't have time to implement.

But, other than smacking the self-caricaturing talents of Bill "Let's get the hell out of here" Shat/nerd, does the sharing of ideas that lead out of solipcism occur here? I'm new to this venue.

Although a fan of Harlan's since "Paingod", and always hoping to see this title on a maquee (instead of "American Dreamz"):
"i have no mouth and i must scream", like the proverbial, as opposed to the basking shark, we must keep swimming forward into rich conceptual soup, or sink into the sterile known.

Harlan- all my praise has come from what I've spent on your books over the 3 decades I've loved your work, since mere hosannas are hollow without the hard smackers, and I can only hope that the SIR2 gene research will extend your range for as long as P. K. Dick's Polynesian tortoise, at least. We're about 15-30 years from the telomere 'death fuse' restorative, so eat well, think anti-negative thoughts, love wisely, and hang in there!

There are too few voices with the right mix of sweet and sour backed up by balls and bravura... I remember seeing a cable news interview with you in the mid-1980's where the hapless host... some plank-headed talking protoplasm fellah... had to explain to the audience that "Mr. Ellison has walked off the program before the interview was to start, because I used the words 'science fiction' to describe his work, when he specifically asked me not to... I'm sorry..." I laughed all that day in harmony with your dismissal of this carp-level 'journalism'... so thanks for that always pleasant recollection/anecdote/example-by-absence.)

Delete me all you like.

From you, it's a high compliment.

As Chuck Heston said to Edward G. Robinson (in his last film):

"I love you, too."

[And you thought I was going to say: "It's people!"!!]

Now, here's an idea no one can steal because it is as old as the chess playing dwarf hidden in the automaton box:

A kid invents a type of software, by accident, that enables his computer to read human minds, file the raw streams-of-consciousness, and, after a few hours of redundancy editing, emit the coagulated thoughts, through a voice synthesizer. Without the kid realizing the breakthrough even occured until his own unexamined mind starts spilling id-goop like out of the innocent vox of the machine.

The question: should the mind be allowed to be read?

And, what would the real 'streams' look like, as compared with the Joycean/Woolfian idealization of the process?

And, of course, would The Government/Church/Mosque/Temple permit it?

Naked Mind, anyone?

Just a thought.


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Rick Keeney
Posts: 1099
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 4:40 pm
Location: Minneapolis, MN

Four Queens, the hard way

Postby Rick Keeney » Tue Apr 25, 2006 6:05 pm

Name: Keeney
Source: unca20060606.htm
Harlan said:

"(As for your daughters, the older one is simply a knockout and extremely charming--and you KNOW I'm not a big fan of most teen-agers--but the younger one was a pixie I immediately grew a smile at having met, even with the boogers rampant. You did a good thing with those two, kiddo.)"

Sorry so late with this belated thank you from my two youngest (I also brag about a beautiful college sophomore girlchild) and their mother, who had to have more to do with their stellar success than I. I blame Luck. Fickle mistress dealt a fine hand of four ladies. Ace high.

Thanks Harlan.


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Postby FinderDoug » Tue Apr 25, 2006 6:09 pm

Name: FinderDoug
Source: unca20060606.htm
Harlan - I gave Bernie the 411 to ensure he pops in; and you're welcome, anytime. I'll keep my eyes peeled for the postman. Hope it worked for you! And I will be in Tempe - I'll give you a heads-up on my wheres and whens before I descend.

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Postby DVG » Tue Apr 25, 2006 7:04 pm

Name: DVG
Source: unca20060606.htm
Regarding the necessity of film versions of books--

Film was a way in to an author--Bret Easton Ellis--that I previously despised as a mere pornographer. If not for the film versions of "American Psycho" and "The Rules of Attraction," I might never have given Ellis his full literary due. Likewise film versions of Kafka's work provided the 10-year opld me with a basis for tackling one of the 20th century's most understated and oddly overlooked authors.

Likewise, film can challenge text. Stanley Kubrick's "The Shining," "Barry Lyndon" and "A Clockwork Orange" all differ from the original texts to the point where both King and Burgess (Thackeray being dead) have always denounced the movies. But so what? Kurick forces us to reconsider his source material and ask if the author is the sole intepreter of text.

Certainly many book adaptations disappoint. One may think of "The Day of the Locust," "The Hotel New Hampshire" or "Myra Breckenridge" as examples. But then these films ask us, whether they intend to or not, to question the worth of the originals.

To be sure, I suppose we can turn up our noses at "The Wizard of Oz," "The Magnificent Ambersons," "Rebecca," "Gone With the Wind" and "Blade Runner" (among personal favorites of mine) because the books were already masterpieces of their respective genres.

It would probably help to be deeply and offensively philistine, however.

Todd Cassel
Posts: 88
Joined: Wed May 28, 2003 9:01 pm
Location: Phoenix, AZ

Postby Todd Cassel » Tue Apr 25, 2006 7:20 pm

Name: Todd Cassel
Source: unca20060606.htm
Harlan, glad to see you not only received but enjoyed the tape. It does get off to a roaring (?) start with one of Susan's squeekysneezes.....I remember turning in surprise to see who stepped on a mouse, until you advised all that there was nothing to panic about.

I'll have AZ REPUBLIC sections waiting for you upon arrival....not a problem! Sorry that Debbie will miss your visit; she's off to exciting Ocala, Florida to visit her mom and sis. I'm on my own, with no ties except for the two pugs (and to hell with her birds).


Stoughton Smead

My last post

Postby Stoughton Smead » Tue Apr 25, 2006 7:24 pm

Name: Stoughton Smead
Source: unca20060606.htm
The first time I ever saw the name Harlan Ellison was in 1965 in a hospital ward where all of us were watching "Devil with a Glass Hand." The guys in the ward loved it. There's only one thing: The name Harlan Ellison flashed on the screen for less than a 10th of a second at the end. All these years I wondered why the name flash was so brief.

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Postby KristinRuhle » Tue Apr 25, 2006 8:28 pm

Name: Kristin A Ruhle
Source: unca20060606.htm
Paul: Yes, I have heard, and heard of, the Chieftains. (For anyone who likes Irish stuff not having heard of the Chieftains would be like not having heard of Beethoven.) Never got to see them live though....big shows, always sell out huge auditorium *sigh* Derek Bell (their harper) is dead, so he's finally found out if you really get to play harp in the afterlife, which is supposed to be why he took it up....hmm, forget who took his place....Anyway, is there a DVD of the Chieftains? It sounds to me like you are recommmending a DVD, or even a live show.

OK...Google hit some kind of petition to get WIZARDS on DVD, but it is already on DVD (?) the Froogle engine shows several online stores that have it in print? I mean, I need to see it to talk about it honestly , of course - although by then the conversation will have turned round to something else. I did not mean to totally *dismiss* Bakshi, and of course the first time I saw his LOTR I was *very* young.

Harlan and Co: I feel rotten about it, but I won't be at the Nebulas. Too much, too soon - Harlan, I'm *thinkin* of ya, and hope you won't think it is a slight if I avoid appearing to be some kind of pathological groupie...either I have other demands on my time/money, or SHOULD! Look forward to seeing pics, etc.

My loved ones know that I went to two out-of-town sf conventions less than a year apart...they *don't* know I went just because HE was there (it had been some time since I went to any con at all!) I need a rest for my own sanity and their peace of mind, but I guess I'll sort of be there "in spirit." I guess that's all I can do for you at the moment. Best wishes.

The Nebulas used to be SFWA-members only...I mean, I thought they were. People work for YEEEEARS to get the publishing credit so they can join, and then at the Nebula banques they turn into fanboys again, because they feel they are on top of Mount Olympus! (Yes, that is how one local sf-club member "neo pro" described it to me.) I would NOT feel like someone who belonged there!

But you have all my congratulations, Harlan.


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Postby robochrist » Tue Apr 25, 2006 11:42 pm

Name: Rob
Source: unca20060606.htm

"Rob:- Nice to hear you made it back to good old blighty!
How are you feeling?"

Apart from the rickets, the head lice, the odd stench in my crotch, the boil on my butt, the impacted tooth, and recent sexual fantasies I've had about George Bush...I'm doing rather well. How sweet of you to ask.

Now just ONE question: who ARE you?

I think ya mixed me up with the sickly Rob of the East. I'm the Evil Rob of the West. What must I do to avoid being confused with this poor wretch? Change my name? Ironically, my initials for first and last look like those for a social disease. So, watch it.

Please keep the distinction here clear: I ain't no sickly dude. In fact, since about a month ago, I've been bench pressing more than my own weight (I'm 156; I'm pressing 160 in sets of 40 reps). That's just a West Coast thing.


Yes,"TRY to RETHINK that one"...

if only the gas pump came as cheap as condescension does these days!

I'll go along with most of the points you made about Bakshi...except for the rotoscoping; just an issue of taste, but its look just NEVER worked for me - even when I was that lab rat of a tot getting weened on the tube.

'N let there be no 'stakes 'bout it, ah KNOWS mah animation - in both historical and technical contexts (I dun drawn - see? - since the age o' six, n' at 12, even designed my own animation cells with detailed backgrounds in tempera; my mother mailed some of those out here from Connecticut years ago, so I have 'em here; even I have to admit, for THAT age it's good stuff). From Winsor McCay and George Herriman straight through Bakshi, Ben Edlund, and Brad Bird...and...

After all that long-winded bragging I've forgotten my point...

Well...yeah - I've an informed opinion about Bakshi...and...well...I mean after not getting laid in 2 months....who wouldn't be defensive about THAT, right?

...and I'll put the breaks on this moronic post right about here...'cause I just don't what the hell I'm sayin' at this hour...

Yeah, Rob's goin' t'bed now.

Um. Alone.

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