Pavilion Digest: November 2004

A plethora of perplexing pavilion posts. The Pavilion Annex thread, the Pavilion Discussion thread, and monthly digests of all messages from the Pavilion.

Moderator: Moderator

User avatar
admin
Site Admin
Posts: 679
Joined: Wed May 21, 2003 12:03 pm

Pavilion Digest: November 2004

Postby admin » Sun Oct 31, 2004 11:24 pm

The following posts contain Art Deco Dining Pavilion messages for the month of November 2004.

User avatar
Harlan Ellison
Harlan Fucking Ellison
Posts: 847
Joined: Mon Jul 14, 2003 10:24 am

Postby Harlan Ellison » Sun Oct 31, 2004 11:24 pm

Name: HARLAN ELLISON
Source: unca20041124.htm
Couldn't sleep. Popped in for a moment.

Whoever "rookie" is, nice post.

he

User avatar
Selene Skye
Posts: 2
Joined: Fri Nov 19, 2004 9:28 am
Contact:

Election whatever 2004

Postby Selene Skye » Mon Nov 01, 2004 6:13 am

Name: seleneskye
Source: unca20041124.htm
My 8 year old daughter asked me who I was going to vote for yesterday. I, being a preschool teacher and a smart*** to boot, responded with a great big PBS muppet grin and told her I was going to elect Mr.Rogers. She pursed her little lips and pulled her brows together and spoke thusly, "Mr.Rogers is dead, mommy."
"Exactly!" I declared emphatically. "So, what you are saying, mommy, is that a dead person who was very nice and changed his shoes a lot would make a better president than Mr. Bush or Mr.Kerry."
"Yup."
"That is really inappropriate." she frowned. "I'm going to ask *** (her 14 yr. old sister)."
And off she marched, only to return a few minutes later.
"She called me a dumb***." she grumbled. "And she said she would vote for Tupac. He's dead too."
"Do you see the pattern, bumblebee?" I wiggled my eyebrows at her.
"Really, mommy, no wonder everything is horrible. Everyone is sooooo immature."
"Developmentally challenged."
"No, immature. I'm going to write a letter to Elmo and ask him to be president."
"You'd have to deal with his playhouse jingles every so often."
She gave that serious thought for amoment.
"O,whatever, I give up." she threw her hands up in the air.
"Never give up,never surrender!"
"Galaxy Quest! Let's watch it."
I smiled. No 8 year old should ever be so aware as this generation of tykes is, at least their attention span is nil thanks to the boob toob.
And I a may have developmentally regressed to hold onto a little joy in a world so despondent, but I am sooo not immature.


User avatar
Selene Skye
Posts: 2
Joined: Fri Nov 19, 2004 9:28 am
Contact:

Election whatever 2004

Postby Selene Skye » Mon Nov 01, 2004 6:13 am

Name: seleneskye
Source: unca20041124.htm
My 8 year old daughter asked me who I was going to vote for yesterday. I, being a preschool teacher and a smart*** to boot, responded with a great big PBS muppet grin and told her I was going to elect Mr.Rogers. She pursed her little lips and pulled her brows together and spoke thusly, "Mr.Rogers is dead, mommy."
"Exactly!" I declared emphatically. "So, what you are saying, mommy, is that a dead person who was very nice and changed his shoes a lot would make a better president than Mr. Bush or Mr.Kerry."
"Yup."
"That is really inappropriate." she frowned. "I'm going to ask *** (her 14 yr. old sister)."
And off she marched, only to return a few minutes later.
"She called me a dumb***." she grumbled. "And she said she would vote for Tupac. He's dead too."
"Do you see the pattern, bumblebee?" I wiggled my eyebrows at her.
"Really, mommy, no wonder everything is horrible. Everyone is sooooo immature."
"Developmentally challenged."
"No, immature. I'm going to write a letter to Elmo and ask him to be president."
"You'd have to deal with his playhouse jingles every so often."
She gave that serious thought for amoment.
"O,whatever, I give up." she threw her hands up in the air.
"Never give up,never surrender!"
"Galaxy Quest! Let's watch it."
I smiled. No 8 year old should ever be so aware as this generation of tykes is, at least their attention span is nil thanks to the boob toob.
And I a may have developmentally regressed to hold onto a little joy in a world so despondent, but I am sooo not immature.


User avatar
Selene Skye
Posts: 2
Joined: Fri Nov 19, 2004 9:28 am
Contact:

The cat did it

Postby Selene Skye » Mon Nov 01, 2004 6:21 am

Name: selene skye
Source: unca20041124.htm
The cat clicked the mouse with paws restless
and claws sharp as a whip
She did it
printed it twice
D*** it, Gilgames
should've named you snowpuff or something
hey is that Enkidu, the chiuhaha
eating the beef entre out of your bowl?
GRIN

Joel McLemore

Halloween Hangover

Postby Joel McLemore » Mon Nov 01, 2004 6:56 am

Name: Joel McLemore
Source: unca20041124.htm
Yeah, count me in as another fan of the DAWN remake. People jump all over it because it lacks the "social commentary" of the original [I think most people who say that don't even understand what they're talking about since they use the same phrase repeatedly as if they'd all read the same review] but I think that in the year 2004 the idea of some national catastrophe wrecking society in a matter of hours to the point where those in power just give up and take off in some helicopter is pretty damned relevant, at least as relevant as Romero's concerns about shopping malls were in the Seventies.

In horror films the best social commentary is usually unintentional--I don't think Romero ever did anything as profound as he did when he cast a black actor as the lead in the original NIGHT OF THE LIVING DEAD. Without intending to he gave the movie a whole other dimension that rang really true in 1968, it became "about something" without trying to.

Saw SHAUN OF THE DEAD yesterday and really enjoyed it as well--can't stand most horror comedies because they usually only work on a Pythonesque level if at all, but this one worked both as a comedy and as a horror film.


Oh, and back in the very early 90s when I was in college I was late to class one day and found my psych professor practically in a rage because none of my classmates knew who Kitty Genovese was. Thankfully I did, or who knows what he would have done...


User avatar
Melissa Reeston
Posts: 14
Joined: Mon Jun 02, 2003 8:36 am

Postby Melissa Reeston » Mon Nov 01, 2004 6:56 am

Name: Scott Reeston
Source: unca20041124.htm
Steve:

"Real life isn't actually scary--it is only tragically sad and bitingly ironic."

I recall numerous times as a child the terror stemming from rising from the ether of sleep to feel my father's fists pummelling me, then being thrown across the room. The weakness and defenselessness of sleep combined with the complete unpredictability of his actions made the circumstance entirely terrifying.

No, no parading of issues here. Just making a point. The greatest monsters aren't those of imagination, but those who sit beside you on the bus. Like money, human beings are sometimes an evil which has a developed numerous capacities to avoid being identified as such.

Maybe that's where the sadness and irony comes in.

Scott

Steven Dooner
Posts: 32
Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2005 4:05 pm
Location: Weymouth, Massachusetts

Postby Steven Dooner » Mon Nov 01, 2004 7:45 am

Name: Steve Dooner
Source: unca20041124.htm
Scott: Reread what I wrote. I don't think you quite got it. I think I could trade child abuse stories with you, but I was talking about what "fear" is as a vital force. I was not talking about pain or grief. "Fear of the next blow" is what we have. "Fear of being hit again" is what we have. It's always in the future tense, Scott. Never in the present or past.



BrianSiano
Posts: 386
Joined: Wed May 21, 2003 3:42 pm
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Contact:

Postby BrianSiano » Mon Nov 01, 2004 8:00 am

Name: Brian Siano
Source: unca20041124.htm
Happy Belated Halloween, everybody.

I haven't been posting lately, mainly because I've got nothing going on that's remotely as interesting as Cindy's war against the Texas Trolls. Anything I'd say'd be a distraction.

But yesterday, a friend and I spent the afternoon wandering around West Philly's wonderful Woodland Cemetary. Tombstones going back to the Civil War. Big gothic structures memorializing beloved Eliza or darling Isabella. Massive obelisks to remember David or William by. Whole families in one three-by-six plot. Inscriptions containing whole novels. Soft marble worn down by the years, leaving only the stone and a palimpsest of memory.

Had an odd idea for a Graveyard Co-Op. Get a bunch of like-minded people, kick in cash, and spend the next thirty years having stoneworkers develop a really nice, ornate, Victorian-quality crypt with truly funky or baroque carvings for a group of like-minded ghoulish people. Make it something visitors will look at with awe, or better yet, shock and horror. Mosaic of Penrose tiles? Gargoyles based on Mickey Mouse, Invader Zim or Pee Wee Herman? A _fake_ gravestone for B. Traven and Ambrose Bierce in case they drop by? An epitaph in high Elvish? A granite grave cover, with fox-trot dance steps engraved on it for ease of dancing? A fake treasure map, indicating that Blackbeard's Gold is buried under the home of your lifelong enemy? You get the rest of your life to contribute to it, protect it, fight for your right for what _you_ want, and the thought that you're leaving an eternity of entertainment for any visitors.

The Fantabulous Dusti is still out of town.

And we oughta have an Ellison get-together at Philcon, all you locals.



User avatar
Ben
Posts: 185
Joined: Sat May 31, 2003 2:15 pm

Postby Ben » Mon Nov 01, 2004 10:47 am

Name: Ben Winfield
Source: unca20041124.htm
ADAM-TROY, STEVE, AND JOEL:

Guys, somehow I really doubt that George has any positive feelings towards the DAWN OF THE DEAD remake, no matter HOW much publicity it might be delivering on his doorstep; 28 DAYS LATER did a good enough job of doing that without taking advantage of one of Romero's personal creations.

Probably the best way to articulate my point is to use the characters as an example. The four protagonists in the original DotD were firmly sketched out and sympathetically portrayed; they weren't behaving within the unspoken (but still

"Horror Movie Character" code that pervades 99.9% of the genre's output. EVERY ONE of the characters in DotD 2004, in one way or another, were written from the tried-and-true stock method of screenwriting. The Quiet, Tough Cop. The Vulnerable but Resourceful Female Lead. The Rich Yuppie. The Blonde Bimbo. The Dog Who Is Guaranteed To Survive. And on, and on, and on, and on...and on.

I can't read Romero's mind, but I've seen enough of his films to know that the man despises horror cliches and caricutures with a genuine, seething RAGE that I've never seen from ANYONE working within the genre. The fact that DAWN OF THE DEAD 2004 so thoroughly embraces the very cliches Romero strove to reject in the original is a pretty strong statement in and of itself.

I'm pretty sure what your next reply might be: "DAWN OF THE DEAD 2004 didn't WANT to try to match the original. It only set out to be a good, rip-roaring zombie flick."

If the film had been called something other than DAWN OF THE DEAD, I would have consented entirely. But - and here's the kicker - WHY? If all that is true, WHY call it DAWN OF THE DEAD? If one is so intent on creating a film on its own merits, WHY wrap yourself up in a box where you're inevitably going to be compared to an original source? The remake seems to want to function more as a "replacement" to the original than a "tribute", whether the filmmakers intended it to be or not. (Gus Van Sant's PSYCHO is similar in some regards, where the entire film was completely redone for no solid reason other than the assumption on the part of Universal Studios that general American audiences have reached such a jaw-dropping level of absolute illiteracy, that they could't even "read" a black&white film. The first DotD wasn't b&w, but I'm sure many studio executives and moviegoers alike would find it "too seventies" to their sleeker, up-to-date tastes.)

However, when all is said and done, the one scene of the film that turned me off before I could even begin giving it a chance came right at the start, where the very first zombie we see is a small girl who immediately dispatches one of the protagonist's loved ones within the space of a minute.

#1 RULE OF 21st CENTURY HORROR MOVIES: CHILDREN ARE THE HARBINGERS OF EVIL. (I can't believe the guide I cited in my previous post missed this one). If you see an innocuous, smiling, sweet-looking girl/boy approaching you, KILL THEM IMMEDIATELY, OR RUN AS FAST AS YOU CAN IN THE OPPOSITE DIRECTION! Even better, kill them first, THEN run in the opposite direction!

Hey, fellas...I'm only saying out loud what the movie seems to be implying...

User avatar
FrankChurch
Posts: 16283
Joined: Wed May 28, 2003 2:19 pm

Postby FrankChurch » Mon Nov 01, 2004 12:11 pm

Name: Frank Church
Source: unca20041124.htm
Holy shit, did you guys know that gay conservative pundit Andrew Sullivan just endorsed Kerry? What a shocker.

I don't care what the polls say, I expect Bush will win. I just know this country and how it thinks. I will be in my bunker, awaiting further instruction. lol.

DTS
Posts: 197
Joined: Thu Aug 13, 2009 12:04 am

Cookie's Post

Postby DTS » Mon Nov 01, 2004 12:13 pm

Name: DTS
Source: unca20041124.htm
COOKIE: Read the story. For most civilized folks, it's hard to imagine the sort of person (or persons) that could commit such a horrendous act. But -- a few years ago -- after ruminating on it, and after reading Richard Rhodes' WHY THEY KILL, I'm not surprised that America has more than her fair share of such creatures.
HARLAN: I think you meant "Cookie" -- Jazz singer extraordinare -- when doling out your compliment below.
--DTS (Keeping my fingers crossed that Bush and his lying, scheming buddies don't retain control of the White House after tomorrow).

Kris

Postby Kris » Mon Nov 01, 2004 12:14 pm

Name: Kris
Source: unca20041124.htm
Cindy: Having read your posts for a little while now, I must side with Eric and whoever else is encouraging you to GET LEGAL COUNSEL NOW. For YOURSELF. Call Harlan, call the ACLU, call one of the several minority-affairs coalitions who send lawyers to battle discrimination, but get a lawyer NOW. You need some help sorting out what is actually illegal from what is not.

For instance, and I referred to my last Continuing Legal Education update to check myself, but it is ENTIRELY TRUE that Texas Open Records law has a presumption of openness. A withholding entity must request an AG opinion within 10 days (unless they have a previous AG opinion on the same material) or RELEASE THE REQUESTED DOCUMENTS. I suspect your materials were of first impression as far as AG opinions go, and since the county didn't WANT to withhold them -- they wanted the cops to have them -- they certainly were only following the law to release them. Also, I got the impression that the original document was rather widely distributed, which would work against any privacy interest you or others might now assert. Please remember all these laws are in place so that EVERYONE can get a look at what those in government, citizens and elected officials alike, are doing.

Additionally, so you'll quit putting quotations marks around Westlaw as though it's an invented authority, Westlaw is nothing more than an extremely advanced database program that contains the caselaw, opinions, etc., that fill law libraries. It is an even more respected authority, since it is generally better updated. (It is like LEXIS/NEXIS, but better, IMHO.)

Thirdly (if there is such a thing), the law doesn't "age," the way other things do. Yes, lawyers do cringe if the authority is 30 years old -- we like the law to be revisited now and then -- but if someone produces a 20-year- or 50-year-old opinion that has not been overturned or modified, that is GOOD LAW. Brown v. Board of Education is now 50 years old. Marbury v. Madison is considerably older. But just because someone is tossing around old law doesn't make it BAD LAW; it could just be that the issue has been considered settled for a long time.

These and others issues are the reasons I wish that you would obtain legal counsel. I would be happy to provide support or clarify specific issues for you behind the scenes, but a) I'm in DFW, and you need someone closer, and b) my present employment prevents me from being readily available for something this size. However, the Legal Assistants Division of the State Bar of Texas has a web page of pro bono folks: http://www.lad.org/TPJ/04/probonoproj.html. Additionally, Fulbright & Jaworski, LLP (large firm, lots of resources) has a pro bono committee, although I'm not sure what kind of cases they take. You can contact Stewart W. Gagnon, Chair of Pro Bono Committee, Fulbright & Jaworski, @ sgagnon@fulbright.com (which I hope is a current contact, but I do not know the man personally.)

Some firms let their associates count pro bono hours. Check out who's gotten pro bono awards from the State Bar in the last year, and call those folks first...

IMHO, it is imperative that you get counsel so that you are able to sort the important issues (possible massive corruption, conspiracy, abuse of power) from things that really aren't issues (Texas Open Records law).

Chris L

Postby Chris L » Mon Nov 01, 2004 3:25 pm

Name: Chris L
Source: unca20041124.htm
Frank,

Here's hoping you're as dead wrong about the election as you are about movies! :)

I did my part, spending three weeks wrangling with county officials to make sure I could cast my absentee ballot back in PA where it counts more than out here in Cali.

The damn thing is gonna come down to Florida again. And we all know that one's a fix from the very start. Oh well.



User avatar
JaySmith
Posts: 256
Joined: Wed May 21, 2003 1:51 pm

From our honeymoon...

Postby JaySmith » Mon Nov 01, 2004 3:34 pm

Name: Jay Smith
Source: unca20041124.htm
A waitress was talking to us about politics as she served us lunch today. She said she was turning 21 this year and this was her first Presidential election.

She told us about the local race for Congress: "I was going to vote for this one guy. But I was talking to my mom and she said she heard him say something bad. I don't remember what it was, but now I'm voting for the other guy."

Exact quote. Pam confirmed it.

And after telling us that she won't eat bar peanuts because half the people who use the men's room don't wash their hands and then dip their hands into the peanut bowl...

"I'm voting for Bush."

Please. PLEASE. Vote Kerry tomorrow.


Return to “The Art Deco Dining Pavilion”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests