Pavilion Digest: October 2004

A plethora of perplexing pavilion posts. The Pavilion Annex thread, the Pavilion Discussion thread, and monthly digests of all messages from the Pavilion.

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Pavilion Digest: October 2004

Postby admin » Fri Oct 01, 2004 3:17 am

The following posts contain Art Deco Dining Pavilion messages for the month of October 2004.

Eric Martin
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Postby Eric Martin » Fri Oct 01, 2004 3:17 am

Name: Eric Martin
Source: unca20041124.htm
>I'm interested in knowing why you are so sure that a society can exist without stable systems of social interaction<

Um, I'll have to get back to you on that one, Lee. But since Brian Siano seems to feel one needs to work at Harvard to have a valid opinion on anything, maybe it's not worth my time.

As usual around here, it quickly becomes the singer, not the song. My pithy little rant seemed to open the bile valves for a few people, who decided it was more rewarding to call me a twelve-year old (or in your words, darling, a teenager running on empty), or suggest I don't read, or am not educated, rather than either ignore it or offer up a spirited defense of their own cultural practices. Plugging old dead Russian writers, or requiring a job title from the Ivies, does not do it.

I was hoping someone would step in and offer a spirited defense of the isolating nature of their particular holidays, eating habits, or "social interactions," but that would have required a little thought, and opened one's ideas up to their own critical examination. It was a lot easier to just fart in my general direction, while waving a library card.

I'm not sure what the appropriate sign-off is for such level of discourse (bite me?), so I'll just move on...

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The Package

Postby DTS » Fri Oct 01, 2004 3:38 am

Name: DTS
Source: unca20041124.htm
HARLAN: Hey, buddy, since I forgot to mention it (in my rush to finish a magazine piece, pick up the kid from school and still get to the "Mail & More" store on time yesterday), the crackle (nee, "burnt ends," when they started out from KC), are $15. The little extras -- including a tupperware dish full of BBQ beans, guaranteed to keep you and Susan warm at night -- are free of charge.
--DTS (P.S., althought the "Mummy" tastes the best, my personal favorite will always be ol' Wolfy).

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Postby rich » Fri Oct 01, 2004 4:06 am

Name: rich
Source: unca20041124.htm
The Pavilion smells different today. (Sniff) Farts and bile, maybe? I don't know...

So who caught the debate last night? And if we're too wordy, I would suggest we take it to the separate wing reserved for private parties when the noise level gets too high, but just wanted to say that my vote AGAINST George Bush has now been turned to a vote FOR John Kerry.

Thankyou for the split screen, Networks.

Posts: 301
Joined: Sun Jan 23, 2005 10:05 am

* Ecch*

Postby Adam-Troy » Fri Oct 01, 2004 5:17 am

Name: Adam-Troy Castro
Source: unca20041124.htm
Sick as a dog today. Throat like I just gargled napalm, a chest filled with broken glass, stomach rumbling like an orgy between retarded gibbons and the entire membership of NAMBLA. Feel like thirteen varieties of warmed-over shit. No content of note. Just feel like complaining. Eccch.

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Postby Ben » Fri Oct 01, 2004 5:19 am

Name: Ben Winfield
Source: unca20041124.htm

I've yet to experience receiving an unwanted (and decidedly repellent) phone call at an ungodly hour, so all I can offer in this case is my sympathies. Don't you sometimes wish that nasty people were more like ugly e-mails, and you could just DELETE them off the face of the earth?

Well, I do...

Speaking of which, I managed to FINALLY put some time aside to tackle WITH VIRGIL ODDUM AT THE EAST POLE. I'm still trying to place my feelings on this yarn, and since there are several passages I'm still attempting to fully understand, I am slightly terrified of sticking my foot in my mouth (again).

The story certainly speaks volumes of my own conflicts with Christianity, and religion in the worship of one particular individual can often lead to the malevolent, petty alienation of a "lesser" person who can't (or refues to) follow "The Messiah's" teachings. William Ronald Pogue is a loser, to be sure, and more often than not much of the grief he receives in the tale is triggered by his own childish actions. However, his decision to aid the Medeans at the story's climax, despite the endless assholery they've been dishing out at him since the very beginning, redeems his character - and makes Virgil Oddum, for all of his brilliant creations and divine gifts, appear as nothing more than a malevolent bastard. Yes, the majority of "Oddum's Tapestry" is his own doing, but the fact that people only recall Pogue's name after being reminded of the great Virgil Oddum speaks of a distinct, callous ignorance.

Pogue DID finish it, after all.

I'm still trying to grasp the scene where Oddum fixes Pogue with a hostile stare, shortly after Pogue rescues him from certain death. What exactly is behind Oddum's ungrateful attitude? Is it because he actually owes his life to Pogue, and being the person he is, he isn't terribly fond of the fact that he owes something to anyone? Hmmm.


The Pavilion has almost ALWAYS reeked of farts and bile, my friend. I don't see the Pavilion as a five-star restaurant, so much as the locker room for a hardcore football team. The bulletin board is the locker room's stall.

Now, when it comes to the Bush/Kerry debate last night, all I can say is that I'm more of a solid Kerry supporter than I was a few hours ago. Heck, almost ANYONE is a better choice than G.W...but after the debate, Kerry has become a no-brainer in my eyes.

Too bad I was born in Bermuda. Otherwise I'd be able know...VOTE.


Wow. You actually replied to my previous post. I'm surprised that someone even took it seriously....ya lovable, goofy SOB.

But Neville doesn't neccessairly have to be a stud, you know...I'm actively considering Jason Alexander for the part as well. Him, and Al Pacino. To hell with stakes and mirrors - Al could just yell at the vampires for the film's entire running time.

OK. That's it. I'm done.

Elijah Newton

Postby Elijah Newton » Fri Oct 01, 2004 5:37 am

Name: Elijah Newton
Source: unca20041124.htm
I don't see how a forum such as this can provide a viable setting for 'winning' an argument, save that it affords exposure to a a variety of opinions and thereby allows participants to draw their own conclusions about the community gestalt and their standing relative to it. In all likelihood, democratic conclusions will be more or less intolerable to elitists of any stripe; I don't see this as a bad thing, just unavoidable.

With that preamble in mind, I'm piping up to second the more laid-back spirit of Douglas, in his support of Eric. Whatever influenced or motivated Eric, his post had me laughing - a good sign and, I would like to think, the core of his stance. Of course I wouldn't support taking away another person's culture, though what I'm about to say could be mis-interpreted as an endorsement of the same: If a situation could be bettered by having another person lighten up and laugh with me, I'd like to think no element of my culture is so sacred I wouldn't piss on it. I'd also like to think that other people would be reciprocate.

Perhaps by focusing on humor I'm straying from the irksome elements of the initial post. Still, this is the chord it struck in me.

Neal Johnson
Posts: 23
Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2004 12:38 am


Postby Neal Johnson » Fri Oct 01, 2004 8:10 am

Name: Neal Johnson
Source: unca20041124.htm
Dooner: Been away, saw yer response to my Henry Miller quip. Point taken. I just love provocative...provocative makes the wheels roll. But you have been sounding grumpy lately, my friend. Wassapwiddatt? Little foxes been gettin' atcha?? Please email me anytime. I am reading Sexus after downing the two "Tropics" as if they were merely chapters. What a great gawdamn Writer he was.

"...Secret Agent X-9 fluoroscope..."...>snork<

Harlan, you do know someone from Atlanta...the inimitable Caitlin R. Kiernan...

Hell, you probably know thiry-six-and-a-half people from Atlanta.


I have a censorship question for anyone. Does anyone know of books/authors who are censored from the U.S. like Henry Miller or James Joyce were? Are there titles that are impossible to find in this country that must be appropriated from taxi drivers or nefarious street corner hustlers? Curious...all the other banned books I can readily purchase...and most are (or have been) banned only in a high school or a city library, and "Salem's Lot" shore enuff ain't "Tropic of Cancer" or "Ulysses".


Steven Dooner
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Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2005 4:05 pm
Location: Weymouth, Massachusetts

Ellison on Library Databases

Postby Steven Dooner » Fri Oct 01, 2004 8:19 am

Name: Steve Dooner
Source: unca20041124.htm
If your library is slim on its Ellsion holdings, I found the following stories on EBSCOHOST through my local college library:

"Anywhere But Here,With Anybody But You,"
"Chatting With Anubis,"
"Midnight in the Sunken Cathedral,"
"Go toward the light,"
"Pulling hard time,Sensible City"
(As well as several editorials from F & SF)

I hadn't read the first story, so it was a pleasure to find it in electronic form. Infotrac is less generous and carries only one essay on Harlan from The Explicator, and a group of Library Journal and Publishers Weekly reviews.

Steve Dooner

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Just finished "Song of Kali" by Dan Simmons

Postby remarck » Fri Oct 01, 2004 10:37 am

Name: Keith Cramer
Source: unca20041124.htm
I'm a slow reader, but this book really pulled me in. I am still digesting this after finishing it last night during the "debate." It was fantastic.


Todd Cassel
Posts: 88
Joined: Wed May 28, 2003 9:01 pm
Location: Phoenix, AZ

Back in Black

Postby Todd Cassel » Fri Oct 01, 2004 11:06 am

Name: Todd Cassel
Source: unca20041124.htm
For those who were asking earlier this week: they just announced Season Two of Millenium on DVD will be released on January 4.


Dave Clarke

Postby Dave Clarke » Fri Oct 01, 2004 11:51 am

Name: Dave Clarke
Source: unca20041124.htm
I have two comments which have nothing to do with each other:

1. Song of Kali is a great book, with eldritch scenes and some swift violence. I hope Dan keeps writing for a long time.

2. There was a show on public radio which featured some archaeologists talking to an audience about some site work they were doing in Texas. One guy asked them about a human footprint that was found next to some dinosaur prints. The arcs had to tell him that no, humans and dinosaurs did not co-exist, that millions of years of evolution separate us from the dinosaurs, and that many dinosaur footprints resemble human footprints.

Flintstones, meet the Flintstones...

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Joined: Sat May 26, 2012 6:25 pm

Postby Lee » Fri Oct 01, 2004 3:02 pm

Name: Lee
Source: unca20041124.htm


How we react emotionally from moment to moment is often out of our control, but we can act against our emotions when necessary to secure our own interests and those of the people around us. In this sense I agree with you; we need to reject by reason the impulses that drive us to do things that make our lives or the lives of others more miserable.

Its the idea that cultural heritage produces impulses toward destruction or misery, and that conflict can be avoided by cutting yourself loose from your cultural heritage that I find so ridiculous. I think Harlan himself is a great example of what Im talking about. He is an atheist raised in the Jewish culture; he is not driven by Judaism, but neither does he deny or reject his Jewish heritage. It is a part of who he is. The idea that he could somehow just cut everything related to Judaism loose, and still be himself (only better!) is laughable. Being raised in one culture is not what fills a person with the desire to go spit on someone of another culture. That idea comes from elsewhere.

Culture evolves inevitably from environment, mystery and history. We cant exist peacefully together without embracing our complexity and studying hard to understand and respect the reasons for our diversity. Mother Nature says, Diversity is strength.

Listen to momma.


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Postby robochrist » Fri Oct 01, 2004 3:08 pm

Name: Rob
Source: unca20041124.htm
"I'm surprised that someone even took it seriously"

Benjamin, my brother boondoggle...

Now, WHAT is it am I supposed to have taken seriously? Knowing me as you do, would I REALLY suggest a STUDSY Robert Neville with even the remotest of a straight face? I mean, WHO is taking WHOM seriously? UNLESS you actually pulled a double-whammy on me.

...and to some others (pointing to PAB while looking the other way): WHY am I being taken so seriously about the STAR WARS line? I'm just POKING you with a stick. From now on I keep a safer distance from your cage.

Must we keep riding the rapids of the River Nerd here? I mean we gotta stop taking each other so friggin' seriously.

(Now watch...they'll come back thinking I'm ALL upset, troubled, and rancorous)

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Joined: Sun Jan 23, 2005 10:05 am

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Postby Adam-Troy » Fri Oct 01, 2004 5:00 pm

Name: Adam-Troy Castro
Source: unca20041124.htm
Rob, take it as the irritated behavior of a flu-ridden man (and one who's been tweaked for his tastes more than once)....

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