Pavilion Digest: January 2004

A plethora of perplexing pavilion posts. The Pavilion Annex thread, the Pavilion Discussion thread, and monthly digests of all messages from the Pavilion.

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Pavilion Digest: January 2004

Postby admin » Thu Jan 01, 2004 3:18 am

The following posts contain Art Deco Dining Pavilion messages for the month of January 2004.

Posts: 46
Joined: Sat May 26, 2012 6:25 pm

The Many Moods of Frank

Postby Lee » Thu Jan 01, 2004 3:18 am

Name: Lee
Source: unca20040202.htm
Frank :

I think Frank is a wonderfully subtle name.

You can dissemble while speaking Frankly, after saying frankly, May I be Frank with you?

Theres something masculine and vaguely phallic about it, perhaps because of its close relationship with frankfurter. It also embodies the very spirit of European barbarism, mayhem and high culture, having descended intact from the Franks, who we all know eventually became French, launched the first crusade under Urban II, plundered Arabia, inspired jihad and invented cheese.

The only thing I cant figure out is how someone like you ended up in Cincinatti.

I did a four month research gig in Cincinatti - with P&G at their Winton Hill technical facility. I specialized in toilet paper. What are the key variables driving human perception of softness in toilet paper? I could tell you if I wanted to, but I must honor the confidentiality agreement. Do you wipe to the front or to the back, standing up or sitting down? Trust me, P&G knows you better than your Freudian analyst ever will. I tried desperately to be a good little proctoid, but in the end they all knew I was different, not least when I refused to wear a company distributed parrot head to the company approved Jimmy Buffet outing where all the corporate depressed white middle-aged closet alcoholics go to get crazy singing boozy off-key renditions of Margaritaville while upper-management looks on with approval.
The thought of working for a company like that was like hugging death, yet in true Orwellian fashion I cant help but admire them and genuinely LOVE their products. Ive sold my soul for Pampers. Maybe my P&G experience colored my view of Cincinatti itself, but I cant think of any more conservative place in America, maybe in the universe. How can a Unitarian libertarian socialist get along there without imploding from environmentally imposed irritation?

Marci Kiser

Xenogenesis and Norman Epstein

Postby Marci Kiser » Thu Jan 01, 2004 7:20 am

Name: Marci Kiser
Source: unca20040202.htm

As a huge fan of your work, I nevertheless feel let down by the lack of follow-up to your promised revenge. Now, I'm sure you've promised many revenges, but the one I'm referring to was made famous by your essay 'Xenogenesis', in which you promise something very terrible to happen to one Norman Epstein.

Assuming all statutes of limitations have expired, could you update us on this matter?

Dorie Jennings

Postby Dorie Jennings » Thu Jan 01, 2004 7:42 am

Name: Dorie Jennings
Source: unca20040202.htm
A happy new year to all of you, and thanks for giving me such witty, thoughtful, erudite reading material. A fine collection of minds entirely.

Mark Walsh
Posts: 21
Joined: Sat May 26, 2012 6:36 pm

Postby Mark Walsh » Thu Jan 01, 2004 10:47 am

Name: Mark Walsh
Source: unca20040202.htm
To Unca Harlan and all my fellow Webderlanders who grace this Art Deco Dining Pavilion, a New Year's wish from me: Peace.


Jorge Galvan

Car 54 Where are You +Joe E Ross & BS Pully

Postby Jorge Galvan » Thu Jan 01, 2004 11:11 am

Name: Jorge Galvan
Source: unca20040202.htm
Hello Harlan and HAPPY NEW YEAR to You and Susan and to EVERYONE HERE!!!

Thank You for answering my JSA questions. :) Just to let ya know LEONARD KIRK would LUV to work with you on a JSA mini if you ever or ANYTHING! He LUVS yer, BATMAN story you did with GENE COLAN years ago! Now that's Heart! :)

Anyway, I think we honestly have similar taste in humor (I am 38 years Young!) and I LUV CAR 54 WHERE ARE YOU. I am a fan of JOE E. ROSS, I think he is insane! I am also a fan of "risque" comedian BS PULLY. Every "hoods" fave comic! He was a bit player in '54 doing various parts (usually playing a HEAVY!) and he was in a Don Knotts movie, that I can't remember the title too. I was lucky one day in my travels to pick up a old vinyl record of his live act and let me tell ya...

I was ROLLING on the Floor!!!! I could see every thug and lowlife in town watching his act(talk about the streets being crime free for an hour!)great record. ANYWAY...

My question to YOU, Sir is where you a fan of the show and each individual mentioned here? Nat Hiken (creator of '54 and SGT. BILKO) was a GENIUS!!! I LOVED HIS HUMOR and sadly when that crappy Bilko movie w/ Steve Martin came out eons ago, I didn't even acknowledge it, sorry. I have too much respect for the cast of Bilko (the Original) and Mr. Hiken, to see that crap!

Thank you again for your time, trouble and for COMING HERE to US, the People.




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Harlan Ellison
Harlan Fucking Ellison
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Postby Harlan Ellison » Thu Jan 01, 2004 11:33 am

Source: unca20040202.htm

Thanks. Got a sealed reviewers' copy for about seven bucks. Looking forward to pleasure. Once again, thanks for your heads-up expertise.

Yr. pal, Harlan

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Harlan Ellison
Harlan Fucking Ellison
Posts: 847
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Postby Harlan Ellison » Thu Jan 01, 2004 12:27 pm

Source: unca20040202.htm
Aw boy. I was afraid one day someone would pop in with this query. You'll understand, I trust, if my response is less-than-specific.

Much time has passed since this pain in the ass surfaced. I'm not sure, in fact, that Norman Epstein hasn't even REsurfaced for a moment here and there over the years, under a different (or no) name, to cause some sophomoric annoyance. But as an active, ongoing-for-years nuisance with a nasty nasty virulent edge to his psychotic games, he was tracked, located, and knobbled. I became as obsessed about finding him as he was determined to make the life of a stranger--me--painful.

Yes, I did find him; and yes, I even spoke to him at his office in a New York borough; and yes, I took him down in a legal and non-violent way. Just to get him to leave me alone. I could have "interfered" with his life in a more severe manner, but once I found him, once he KNEW I'd found him, once he heard the tone in my voice, once he knew the arrogance and meanness provided by his anonymity was no longer accessible to him ... like all bullies and obsessed fanatics, he felt fear. Tables turned. The Damoclean Sword was hanging (excuse the purple theatrics, but it was the best metaphor I could think of quickly), and if I should ever again be troubled by him, in any smallest way that I could trace back to him FOR SURE, he knew I would not opt for amelioration again.

More than that, Marci, I would rather not say. Let (one presumes) sleeping dogs lie. I hope this suffices to close the loop for you.

Respectfully, Harlan Ellison



Postby Jaimss » Thu Jan 01, 2004 12:37 pm

Name: Jaimss
Source: unca20040202.htm
To the aptly named Mr. Church:
I am afraid my conversations with the Divine failed to pierce the topic of sectarianism. Such subjects, I fear, may limit each of us. Besides, my position is not to speak towards mine own faith, but to help others speak and seek towards theirs.

As for Cincinnati (on Lee's thread):
While I cannot speak for others, I find Cincinnati to possess the charm of a small town attempting to discern its metropolitan identity. Conservativism is, most certainly, prevalent, but so is its liberal counterpart and in far greater quantities than one might expect for a city its size.
While no L.A. or New York (who brandish their eccentricity past infliction), Cincinnati bears a rife historical culture, resplendent with museums architecture and theatre. For example, the Vatican exhibit chose only fours cities for its US travels: Cincinnati being one. Cincinnati spawned the only full, three year stage adaptation of LOTR, hosts the only Haufbrauhaus in the US, sites Corporate headquaters for GE, P&G, Chiquita and Slushy, bears a Jack Daniels factory, is the upcoming site for the Underground Railroad museum, the home of Charles Manson (who by any measure ranked far from conservative) and a caleidescope of other nuances. While not the brightest star of the midwest, Cincinnati certainly casts its own luminescence.
Have we Republicans?... in droves, as we do Liberals, sycophants, apathists, anarchists and meliorists. We are simply a city.
As a translplanted southerner, I chose carefully before relocating north and found fewer flaws with Cincinnati than most. But, as I said, this is simply mine own perspective.

And lastly, a question for Mr. Ellison:
Sir, if it be not overly personal, I should like to ask the following: What is your opinion on the state of civil liberty in the US. And what, if anything, may be done to doster its strength.

In kind sincerity,

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Chuck Messer
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Location: Lakewood, Colorado

Postby Chuck Messer » Thu Jan 01, 2004 1:15 pm

Name: Chuck Messer
Source: unca20040202.htm

You read 20,000 Leagues? How cool. Is the recording still available? Was the text based on a decent translation? Come to think of it, do you read directly from the book when recording, or is it a typed manuscript?

And to all, a happy new year. New beginnings, clear horizons and a strong wind at your fantail to speed you to your desired destinations, one and all.


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Joined: Tue Jun 29, 2010 8:06 pm

20,000 Leagues

Postby bowelsofborges » Thu Jan 01, 2004 2:52 pm

Name: Keeney
Source: unca20040202.htm

I just Googled "20,000 Leagues" the audio tape (somehow that sounds wrong) and it is out there. It can be (and should be) bought. This was a very nice effort by HE. (and JV, of course)


Eric Martin
Posts: 546
Joined: Wed May 28, 2003 12:10 pm


Postby Eric Martin » Thu Jan 01, 2004 4:35 pm

Name: Eric Martin
Source: unca20040202.htm
My only exposure to craven fanitude was at the exactly two conventions I've been to in my life, both to buy old comics. The first time I saw a huge line waiting to get autographs from who turned out to be a pissed-off looking John DeLancie. Later it was announced that Kevin Smith was about to speak in the enormo-room, and the ensuing stampede to hear his pearls surely beat the final lifeboat grab on the Titanic.

The second time I decided to see what the fuss with C-grade celebrity was all about, so after walking by the main floor booths with Lou Ferrigno and the guy who played R2-D2, I came to a huge room that was filled to pouring with people. Craning my head in, I stayed long enough to hear George Takei talking on stage about his broken foot. Pass.

The food is also universally terrible at those places. Long live e-Bay.



Postby Jaimss » Fri Jan 02, 2004 9:10 am

Name: Jaimss
Source: unca20040202.htm
Reading the works of Lyall Watson (an absolutely brilliant writer), I happened upon some information which I thought might spawn conversation.

In the fifties, the use of Progesterin to counteract miscarriage ranked a common medical practice. This chemical would often mutate into testosteron in the body of female patients prompting the growth of male genitalia or pseudo-genitalia. Even those for which the physical changes did not occur showed marked behavior alteration towards masculinity. Considering the time frame, could this common practice have promtped some of the social change which occured through-out the fifties and sixties?

Thoughts,... anyone.

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Joined: Sat May 26, 2012 6:25 pm

Postby Lee » Fri Jan 02, 2004 9:46 am

Name: Lee
Source: unca20040202.htm

Before holiday feelings fade inevitably back into business as usual, Id like to add in my good wishes to Harlan and the Webderlanders for all the best in the New Year. Even before learning of the HERC and its Rabbit Hole publication, Id already associated my surprise at discovering Webderland with Alices tumble down the rabbit hole. This is such an impossible place! But with the type of people that are drawn to read an author like HE, with Ricks light touch thread management skills and with Harlans sure and occasionally spectacular quality control moves, Webderland is maintained as a uniquely rewarding arena for discovering and discussing a broader range of Ellisons many works, for deepening and broadening ones reading list, and for demonstrating that its really possible for a completely diverse collection of people and opinions to really get into it and stay productive sometimes personal, but never mean-spirited or nasty.

I am aware of no other author of HEs caliber and experience that takes the time to contact his fans in such a direct and engaging way. For all of this I am truly grateful.

Happy New Year, everybody.

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Postby FrankChurch » Fri Jan 02, 2004 12:03 pm

Name: Frank Church
Source: unca20040202.htm
There is a strange charm to Cincinnati that I cannot explain. Sure, it is reactionary and hateful (hell, even in LA they elected a uber boob for Governer), but it has its moments. There is a decent music scene and radical clique. You just have to know where to snif.

I have thought about moving. But where? Bushes puss follows me wherever I go.


My "best of" list for 2003:

Best movie--Mystic River
Best Actor--Tim Robbins
Best actress--Scarlett johanson.
Best Director--Clint Eastwood
Best Writer--Dennis Lahane (since it is his book they used)

Best Book--non-fiction--Hegemony Or Survival, Noam Chomsky
Best Fiction--Black House, Steven King, Peter Straub

Best Magazine essay--Harlan Ellison, Terrorists

Best essayist--Lewis Lapham

Best magazine--Z


Best Online Host--Harlan Ellison

Best Pop/Rock Album--White Stripes, Elephant

Best R&B/Urban--Speakerboxxx/The Love Below, Outkast

Best Classical Symphonic--True Love Waits: Christopher O'Riley Plays Radiohead.

Best Jazz--loathe the new stuff.

Best all around musician--Prince

Best Female Singer--Bjork

Best Male Singer--Prince

Best Spoken Word Artist--Harlan Ellison

Best Curmudgeon--Harlan Ellison

God Among Men--Harlan Ellison

Most Hated Person Of 2003--Bush

Most Admiring--Noam Chomsky

Best Comedian--George Carlin

Best Television Show--Real Time With Bill Maher

Best Cable Station--C-Span

Worst Cable Station--Fox News.

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