A question to all the married folks on this board...

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David Loftus
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Postby David Loftus » Tue Jan 20, 2009 6:25 pm

Barber wrote:And does not differentiate between one-time divorcees and multiple-offenders. (Reference is tongue in cheek, no offense intended.)



I like to say it took my wife several trainers -- and these were not brief mistakes by any means; both her previous marriages lasted longer than a decade -- to become sufficiently equipped to handle someone like me. And even (dare I say it?) to appreciate someone like me.
War is, at first, the hope that one will be better off; next, the expectation that the other fellow will be worse off; then, the satisfaction that he isn't any better off; and, finally, the surprise at everyone's being worse off. - Karl Kraus

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Jan
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Postby Jan » Tue Jan 20, 2009 6:28 pm

to appreciate someone like me

David is such a typical actor.

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David Loftus
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Postby David Loftus » Tue Jan 20, 2009 11:42 pm

I appreciate that you're just kidding around, Jan, but no I'm not. There's very little that's typical about me, and vanity aside, I'm certainly not a typical actor.
War is, at first, the hope that one will be better off; next, the expectation that the other fellow will be worse off; then, the satisfaction that he isn't any better off; and, finally, the surprise at everyone's being worse off. - Karl Kraus

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Jan
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Postby Jan » Wed Jan 21, 2009 5:11 am

I know that. :oops:

reddragon70
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Postby reddragon70 » Wed Jan 21, 2009 5:53 am

You know this got me thinking. What is the definition of a typical (insert job title or whatever here). Mostly its complete bunkum. I have worked in the railway for 18 years now, 10 years as a driver and there is no such thing as a typical driver. Theyre all completely different, going from the low-brow football mad need every saturday off cos theres a game on type to some who have degrees or similar but choose to do this job for their own reasons.

I am far from typical myself. I am a voracious reader. I am what is described as an old or traditional goth (meaning I am Sisters of Mercy, Bauhaus and Nephilim fan). A science fiction fan. A gamer (I like to think I am a bit of an expert at certain games). A book collector with a fair knowledge on the subjects I try to collect. A convention attendee when i can. Finally I am a huge hater of most sports, except Rugby and Sumo.

I wouldnt even define a typical SF fan because they are all so different, going from the geek to the trully pleasant and cool guys and girls I tend to hang about in con bars with.

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markabaddon
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Postby markabaddon » Wed Jan 21, 2009 8:48 am

Frank, no my parents were not pissed. They had been encouraging me to stay in the marriage, but the final trip to Philly sealed the deal for them and they told me they woudl support me no matter what my decision. MY ex will never know how lucky she was, as my sister and cousins were seriously considering taking her out back and beating the tar out of her because of how she treated me
Governments, if they endure, always tend increasingly toward aristrocratic forms. No gov't in history has been known to evade this pattern. And as the aristocracy develops, gov't tends more and mroe to act exclusively in the interests of the ruling class

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FrankChurch
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Postby FrankChurch » Wed Jan 21, 2009 10:11 am

They should have. I love to watch chicks fight.

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Postby Jessi » Wed Jan 21, 2009 2:16 pm

I have to agree with Mark about paying attention to your friend's and family's reactions to the person you are with. The support of our families has made a huge difference in how my husband and I view our marriage. That's not to say that you can't be with someone who has a family that doesn't like you, provided that the person you are with doesn't give a rats ass what his/her family thinks. (That sort of thing worked out great for my parents)

It helps to think about what the person feels about your family as well. It's hell on everyone when your spouse doesn't like your family but you do.

As for things working out... It's a very good thing to agree on some of the major issues before you wed. Babies, finances, sex, jobs... Even some minor things can turn out to be major later on if you haven't already made a compromise. Things like personal schedules and how you keep house can become stressful over the long haul. I always recommend that people go to some kind of pre-marital counseling prior to making the jump. An outsider will almost always bring things up that you haven't thought about or thought you had already worked out. And if it turns out you have covered the bases you can feel fairly confident in your communication skills and your prospects for a happy relationship.

I love my family and my marriage. We got married relatively young and I still feel very good about our decision. However, I certainly didn't know right away and it took a number of months of asking me if I wanted to get married before I finally said yes. I was scared but I was also sure that my life would be much happier with than without my husband. I've made some sacrifices and it has all been worth it. There's another thing that's important then, being able to make some personal sacrifices for each other.

We all have our personal stories about what works and what doesn't. Ultimately you and your intended have to make the decision that feels right for you. Do it with open eyes and open minds and I think you have a good chance of making it work.

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Postby paul » Wed Jan 28, 2009 4:09 am

Jesus Gywnnie, you don't stir up much of a conversation do ya? *squeeze*

This is gonna touch on probably every topic brought up by everyone else already, and I don't know if it will answer your questions, but though it's just part o'my story, it's all I know.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I'm still a newbie to this marriage deal, our first anniversary is coming up next month. This question you pose, as old as Marquess of Queensbury rules, hinges on the posit that there must be only one, in order to be, 'the one'. I'm just saying that to get the polygamist arguments out of the way. I know a few who have that lifestyle, and they're just as confused as the rest of us. It's never "Oh, can I just, only, be with one person only?" It's usually more like, "Oh hell, does X love Y more than me tonight? Or did Y just say that because X wanted to sleep with Q yesterday?!?"

And you think the straights have it bad.
~~~~~~~

My dad died when i was one or two. I don't remember him. I was raised by my mother and grandmother, much to the chagrin of much of the rest of the family. They were sure this steady influence of women (not to mention grandma's sisters and my aunt) would surely turn this only child gay. Apparently, they still thought that in the 70's in Appalachia suburbia.

Regardless, i grew with a healthy appetite for the opposite sex and, let's just say that I understood exactly what Harlan meant when he wrote that perhaps the search for love, in the form of sex and relationships, is what drives this beast Mankind. I had a lot of girlfriends. I had a lot of sex, girlfriends or lone wolf. It took me no time at all to know that I was a good boyfriend; i was smart, clean, respectful, a strong shoulder and a tender comforter and learning something about how to please a woman every day. But what i didn't realize until much later, my mid 20's, which would have been my fourth or so REAL relationship (as real as they can be when you've been practicing for so long), was what I had become. I never heard the phrase until a few years ago, but what I was, was a starter boyfriend. I could talk the talk and walk the walk, but when it came to time and commitment, forget it. What I loved was the Supersonic jet climb of romance, the fireworks of new passion, the steady knowledge that I was THE ONE for someone. Once the relationship hit the apex, it was done. It didn't dawn on me until later, that I didn't care much if they were the one for me, because there was always someone else who held a different fascination. Someone smarter, quicker of wit.

This could be said to be standard Business as Usual for any teen-aged/twenty-something guy, but it wasn't, quite. I never cheated on any girlfriend. If I was in a relationship, and I met someone else, I would say, "I'm sorry, but I've met someone else." And that was it. I was ready to be a new boyfriend. I know the names for it, and what the pathology says, but that was me at that time. Certainly none of these women/girls were what I would have called 'marriage material', and if they were, I wouldn't have recognized it anyway.

All that as antecedent to meeting Kathy. I'm not blowing smoke, hell she likes hearing about you guys, but she can't take the voluminous posts, so it's not like she's checking up on me here :) but there was a sea change when I met her. Yes, I admit, it could have been a one-night-stand (to me), but it seemed like she was a culmination of all the things I had looked for in the women/girls of my past. Now, this was great for dating, maybe even a relationship, but marriage? Never. I had swore off that horse years before. I had been having a hard enough time trying to learn to be a dad. Difficult, when I'd had no formal role models in the area, and Kirin's mom and I had tried to live together twice, with worse results each than before. Any and all actual relationships I tried to have got shorter in lifespan and died a more vicious death than the last. I was getting set in my 30's, and I was determined to continue to live life to the fullest, no encumberances, no hassles, no ball and chains. I'll drink what I want, do what I want with who I want, and if that's a problem, then you just don't want to love me for who I am, who you thought I was. The very act of being just a 'boyfriend' meant I could control the outcome, which would inevitably, obviously, end in my girlfriend not wanting to be with me anymore, therefore I could call it quits. Marriage? A no-way-out scenario? Forget it.
I didn't see the spectre of selfishness that had lain its coat over the puddle for me.

Kat and I became an item, fast. This went on for a bit and then something happened. Long-story-short, we had a major falling-out, much bad cess, most all of it my fault. We didn't see each other again for almost a year and a half. Now here's where it starts. We slowly got back together, having lunch, spending nights together. Terrible things happened in her life during that time, and I should have been there. That was the first realization. Yes, i missed her when she was gone, and I hadn't realized how much I missed her until I saw her again, but the fact that I felt I had disappointed her, that I wasn't there when she needed me, hit me like a brickbat. I had not, ever felt that way before, not for anyone. Friends and some family, yes, the 'wish i'd been there' scenario shows up a lot, but not to this degree. I felt I should have been there. I could have been there. But I had chose not to, and that was a very bad decision. I thought I could make no bad decisions. Now I knew I was wrong, and what I felt with her felt right. That's simplistic, but I think you get my drift.

She asked me, told me, she wanted me to come with her to Austin. I was knocked out. I finally knew in my heart that this was someone with whom I would love to spend my time with, who says she wants the same with me. Me? My self-esteem wasn't up for that. I was used to making the decisions, and now here she was making the BIG decision, one that took control out of my hands, and placed it into ours. That's how I knew I was loved. She wanted us to be US, together.

I knew that I loved her, and that she loved me. We did things that complimented each others abilities. We fit. We were able to do the things the other couldn't; a team. And even so, all the while, that juvenile part of me couldn't help but wonder what would happen if it ended. That was another big giveaway- I found myself thinking about spending my life without her. Not what I would do, all footloose and fancy-free, but of all the things we said we'd do together that we'd never get to do, together. It made me sick to my stomach. I'd never cared about anyone enough to miss them so much when they were still right there.

We started to talk about marriage. Pros/cons, whys and why nots. Gwynn, even and up to the day of our wedding, I still wondered if this was a good idea. Being a writer, I'm a procrastinator. I tend to think about things for quite a long time, mulling my options over. It took me three weeks to pick a pair of frames that I actually liked for my glasses. The thing is, is that once I make up my mind, it is a done deal, irrevocable, 100% concrete topped with broken glass unchangeable. I went through the process of tux renting, banquet hall reservations, all that, still wondering, what would we do when it was over, when she realized I wasn't the knight she thought I was?

The morning of the wedding, I was shaving. I was thinking all this and more. Then it hit me, an epiphany. That proverbial bolt out of the blue (not really a proverb, but go with me, i'm on a roll). It came with such utter clarity, it was as though, literally, a weight had been removed from my shoulders. And it was this:

This woman, the love of my life, apple of my eye, cream in my coffee, and everything in my world, this woman who has known me for over five years, lived with me for three years, she still wants to marry me. She knows exactly who and what I am. She knows i am no knight and why would i deign to put words in her mouth or thoughts in her head? How dare I condescend her intellect and second-guess the future she has decided, not just for her life, but for ours? Of course she knows what she's getting into, we've talked about it a thousand times. We know what we want for the future, our jobs, our families. She knows me so well... that she knows how I think, that I'd be thinking these thoughts, today. And she TRUSTS me, that I've made up my mind, that it must be what I want. I'd never go through with it if it wasn't. She knows that if I've finally made up my mind, it must be what I want.
She knew that my mind was made up before I did.

That's how I know, and why I don't want to be without her, and how I can trust and depend on her and say, "She's the one."

I don't know about soul mate stuff. I used to think about it, but ... no, not really. That's just stuff we say when we don't want to acknowledge what we do to each other. It's fluff.

She makes me want to be a better person, and accepts me for who I am anyway.
We have plenty of differences, but what we have in common is ours and ours alone. It could never be replicated with another.

Or, i guess I could put it this way: Kat has been sick for a while. Mostly allergies, but of a particularly violent strain, mixed with a wicked side dish of onset cold/flu. More than anything else, she loves for me to be in bed with her, just to be there... you know.
She will be sore at me for being this late in coming to bed, mostly because I told her I'd be there 2 hours ago. She may even wake up with a lonely angst, angry about being able to lay down with me for barely 3 hours before she has to go to work, still sicky.
And I will forgive her for being mad at me and i'll tell her about what I wrote, and she'll be mad until she reads this, at which point she will forgive me for being so late, but we'll both know that I should've be next to her anyway, but I got caught up.

And that's what we do.


See where I went? Selfishness to realization, reasoned arguments to leap of love? I knew it would come round sooner or later.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Truly, never had much problem on the trans-cultural front. She's Mexican-Italian, I'm a Saxon/Celt mutt. We're both too hard-headed for our own good. No religion enough to speak of. I barely talk to most of my family and as long as she is happy, I think her kin are happy.


Shit-zuu, I had no idea it was so late. Probably much more extraneous info than you needed, sorry. Hope something makes sense.

Is the definition of love the finding of what you want or the acceptance of what you've got?

I have a quote i'd love to share, but i'd have to go digging for it, and I shan't right now. G'nite for the nonce.

Cheers,
Paul
The medium is the message.

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David Loftus
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Postby David Loftus » Thu Jan 29, 2009 1:44 pm

Wonderful post, Paul. Thanks for taking the time and trouble.

What it comes down to, is that other people can't really love us until we are ready to let them. And that usually doesn't happen until we learn to love, trust, and accept ourselves.
War is, at first, the hope that one will be better off; next, the expectation that the other fellow will be worse off; then, the satisfaction that he isn't any better off; and, finally, the surprise at everyone's being worse off. - Karl Kraus

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Lori Koonce
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Postby Lori Koonce » Thu Jan 29, 2009 3:04 pm

David Loftus wrote:Wonderful post, Paul. Thanks for taking the time and trouble.

What it comes down to, is that other people can't really love us until we are ready to let them. And that usually doesn't happen until we learn to love, trust, and accept ourselves.



David

If this acting thing doesn't work the way you expect it to, you have a grand career ahead of you in some sort of self help wringing career.

If Dr Laura can dish out personal advice without the proper credentials, you should be able to as well.

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FrankChurch
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Postby FrankChurch » Thu Jan 29, 2009 4:15 pm

Yea, Lori, David's done wonders for my self esteem. hehe.

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Jan
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Postby Jan » Mon Feb 02, 2009 7:08 pm

I accept myself alright, it's Frank I can't accept.

Gwyneth M905
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Postby Gwyneth M905 » Thu Feb 05, 2009 4:14 pm

It's ok, folks. It's over. The man I thought I might spend the rest of my life with cannot accept my body art. I'm going to be licking my wounds for a long time.

But you know what, from one adult to another, I'd rather know the truth short and hard and to the point and have him say the truth bluntly and live with integrity, than sugar coat things.

Hey, he's the guy, and bottom line, if looking at me doesn't get him hard...

C'est la vie, que l'amour. :roll:

AND thank you all for your responses. We could collect them, edit them together into a book and sell it for Valentine's Day!!! :D
Love,
Gwynnie
I want to learn the ways of the Force and become a Jedi Knight, the same as my Father.
STAR WARS (1977)

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Postby Moderator » Thu Feb 05, 2009 4:32 pm

Gwyneth M905 wrote:It's ok, folks. It's over. The man I thought I might spend the rest of my life with cannot accept my body art. I'm going to be licking my wounds for a long time.


Um. Okay, Gwyn -- to be equally blunt: why are you licking your wounds?

If he, instead, said he couldn't accept your left arm, or your right elbow, or the mole that grows on your (fill in the blank, if you've got one), would you be as hurt? Your body art is you, it's a statement of who you are, and a permanent (for all intents) addition.

The point is, it's a part of your person not easily dispatched. If this was his issue, he's a fool. If, on the other hand, it was something else he wouldn't/didn't tell you, he's an idiot.

Trust me, as a person with the same set of ... "attributes"... as he has, I can assure you the problem isn't with you or your body art -- it's more likely with the equally attached but evidently unused organ between his ears.
- I love to find adventure. All I need is a change of clothes, my Nikon, an open mind and a strong cup of coffee.


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