Creative Commons

General discussions of interest to readers and fans of Harlan Ellison.

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Steve Evil
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Re: Creative Commons

Postby Steve Evil » Sun Nov 13, 2011 3:39 pm

What about stories?

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FrankChurch
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Re: Creative Commons

Postby FrankChurch » Sun Nov 13, 2011 3:49 pm

Good point, Steve Evil. You can't sell one story.

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Re: Creative Commons

Postby Moderator » Sun Nov 13, 2011 4:44 pm

FrankChurch wrote:Speech is different, I'm sorry. Ideas are not property or property in the traditional sense.

Liberalize the copyright laws. We should all agree on this.


Harlan's stories are not ideas, they are stories he created in his mind. Cris' songs are not ideas, they are other people's creations she has paid money to interpret her own way. My photos are not ideas, they are observations.

Freedom to express your own ideas and creations are yours, and yours to keep and do with what you wish. No one should ever pry them from you short of your cooling corpse.

There is no community obligation for an artist to surrender their works, no more than there is for a baker to feed a mob, a carpenter to build a house, a farmer to hand away his crops, a plumber to fix pipes, or an athlete to throw a ball. They may do it for free only if they wish, and it is called charity.

Payment is a most pure form of appreciation, theft is the least. It is valueless to the creator. It is a crime.
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FrankChurch
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Re: Creative Commons

Postby FrankChurch » Mon Nov 14, 2011 1:50 pm

Then you are against freedom of expression. If I want to use the Coca-Cola logo to mock Coke that should be my right.

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Re: Creative Commons

Postby FrankChurch » Mon Nov 14, 2011 1:51 pm

A fifty year rule--that is obviously fair and gray.

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Re: Creative Commons

Postby Steve Evil » Mon Nov 14, 2011 3:11 pm

FrankChurch wrote:Good point, Steve Evil. You can't sell one story.


I will one day! And if enough people buy it, I just might sell another one. . . But seriously. What about stories? What should the rights of the writer be?

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Re: Creative Commons

Postby FrankChurch » Mon Nov 14, 2011 3:17 pm

Fifty year limit for copyrights, probably less for big corporations. Selling someone's work illegally is obviously worse than giving it away where nobody makes money.

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Re: Creative Commons

Postby Moderator » Mon Nov 14, 2011 3:48 pm

FrankChurch wrote:Then you are against freedom of expression. If I want to use the Coca-Cola logo to mock Coke that should be my right.


Just the opposite. I am for people having the rights to their expression so that they feel free to express it. Why is this such a difficult concept? If I have all of my work seized as I produce it there's absolutely no incentive for me to continue to produce it. None.

Using a Coke can image to mock Coke isn't the same as producing a work of art to sell to a customer. (And there are already exemptions for satire, etc.)

(This is evidently the problem with copyright law: too few people understand it but are willing to expound upon it, creating confusion and seeing a conspiracy where none exists. The conspiracy is to give artists a return on their investment, rewarding them for their output.)

You are free to satirize the Coke logo, however you are NOT free to use it for your own cans of soft drink. You are free to use their logo for news articles related to Coke, but not for news articles related to the price of cotton in China, unless somehow Coke is connected to the production of cotton in China.

You are expressly NOT able to use Andy Warhol's cans of Campbell's Soup as your own entry in an art show, nor do you have the right to photocopy the work and distribute it freely to everyone you meet.

Frank, you're arguing against freedom of expression when you tell an artist that they won't own what they create, that they are not due payment for their work. That's not freedom of expression, it's theft of intellectual property. HUGE difference.

There is no societal obligation which forces artists to surrender their work, and there are laws which you oppose that are there to protect the artist from freeloaders and thieves. You're the bully who walks up to a kid who has just decorated a cupcake they baked for themselves and takes it away from them, insisting they have to share it with everyone.

YOU may elect to share your cupcakes, but it's ethically and morally wrong to grab another person's cupcakes and hand them out for free. That's their decision, and theirs alone.
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Ezra Lb.
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Re: Creative Commons

Postby Ezra Lb. » Mon Nov 14, 2011 5:50 pm

Here's my plan.

I'm going to go rob the bank up the street. Now I know I'll be caught so I'm not even going to try to escape. When I'm tried my defense will be in two parts.

1. The Frank defense. Money doesn't want to sit around, it wants to be free so I am not stealing it, I'm liberating it.

2. The Obama defense. We shouldn't look back, we should move forward. Always forward.


Reckon it'll work?
“We must not always talk in the marketplace,” Hester Prynne said, “of what happens to us in the forest.”
-Nathaniel Hawthorne, The Scarlet Letter

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FrankChurch
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Re: Creative Commons

Postby FrankChurch » Tue Nov 15, 2011 1:10 pm

Ezra, remember that libertarians think taxation is a form of robbery.

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Re: Creative Commons

Postby NeonMosfet » Sat May 12, 2012 6:43 pm

How about this? Over at LA Weekly, I regularly post comments, maybe too much, maybe to harshly. I have (German Keyboard has no apostrophes) rack up a fair amount of ´´likes´´. I commented on the Time cover. I was flooded by other commentators, to drown mine. They are saying pretty much what I said, with out my elegance. We have a word for this.
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FrankChurch
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Re: Creative Commons

Postby FrankChurch » Mon May 14, 2012 10:48 am

I still say Barber should be against libaries.

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Lori Koonce
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Re: Creative Commons

Postby Lori Koonce » Mon May 14, 2012 11:43 am

FrankChurch wrote:I still say Barber should be against libaries.


Frank outta all the ludicris things you've ever said, this one is the best.

Free libraries exist for the puropse of keeping information available to the public. Ben Franklin, who is credited most often with starting the Free library system, knew that not all members of society could afford the books and other publications that an informed and well educated public needed access to. So, he started what has morphed into our current Free Library system.

I keep on using the phrase Free Library, because there are still places that have Paid Libraries.

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Re: Creative Commons

Postby Moderator » Mon May 14, 2012 7:09 pm

FrankChurch wrote:I still say Barber should be against libaries.


Why? Libraries buy the books and lend them to friends.

You're missing the nuance. If libraries stole books and then made copies for their friends, THEN I'd be against them.


:roll:
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Ezra Lb.
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Re: Creative Commons

Postby Ezra Lb. » Mon May 14, 2012 7:41 pm

You're missing the nuance.

Who? Frank? :shock:


I should point out that while authors do not receive royalties on loans from libraries they do get a royalty on the initial sale to the library. So it's not the same thing as downloading illegally at all.
“We must not always talk in the marketplace,” Hester Prynne said, “of what happens to us in the forest.”
-Nathaniel Hawthorne, The Scarlet Letter


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