never mind

General discussions of interest to readers and fans of Harlan Ellison.

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never mind

Postby admin » Tue Apr 05, 2011 11:38 am

NOTE NOTE NOTE NOTE NOTE

SEE THE OTHER POST ABOUT THIS

NOTE NOTE NOTE NOTE NOTE





Okay guys. Two things.

THING ONE. Moderation.

Steve is done. He was done a while ago but I cajoled him into staying a while.

I am calling for volunteers. You need to be able to handle the job without being insulting, dismissive, or condescending in its practice.

Let me know if you want to handle a forum or be an overall mod. Let me know if you want to be a backup mod or the main mod, similarly. THING TWO: The Site.

It is time for this to stop being my site alone.

Over the next year, I am going to make harlanellison.com something close to open source. There will be a content management system and maybe a wiki backend similar to this one: http://harlanellison.com/wiki/index.php?title=Main_Page

Tentative working title for this is The Cynosure.

There will be different levels of authorization:
CORE: full access to FTP, site management, domain management. Basically, the Board of Directors.
EDITOR (CMS, Wiki or Both): Full access to CMS and Wiki.
MODERATOR (CMS, Wiki, Forums): Full access to admin functions - responsible for approving content.
TRUSTED CONTRIBUTOR (CMS, Wiki or Both): Can post to CMS/Wiki without requiring moderation.

I plan on stepping back and being just a member of the board.

The purpose of this is to secure the future of this site as far as finances, management, and content. I would like to be able to show Harlan, Susan, and myself that this site is going to continue long after all three of us are gone.

What now

Post here for now. I would prefer here. If for some reason you wish to keep your involvement or willingness to be involved on the down low, you can email me. DO NOT USE PRIVATE MESSAGING. Jesus I hate it.

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Re: You probably want to read this one

Postby Lori Koonce » Tue Apr 05, 2011 12:22 pm

Rick

I have a ton of time and nothing productive to do with it. You can sign me up for any job you think I'll do well. Just let me know which it is and when I start.

Just one request, If I am made moderator of anything, I'd like a person or three to bounce things off of.

Lori

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Re: You probably want to read this one

Postby Moderator » Tue Apr 05, 2011 12:43 pm

Rick -
Thanks for the post, and I'm obviously on board for the continuation. As we've discussed privately, I'd like to take a shot at core or Editor, and any additional content development we agree upon.

SB
- I love to find adventure. All I need is a change of clothes, my Nikon, an open mind and a strong cup of coffee.

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Re: You probably want to read this one

Postby markabaddon » Tue Apr 05, 2011 1:02 pm

Rick,

While not willing to take on the moderator role, I would be glad to help out on any other aspects of the site

Mark
Governments, if they endure, always tend increasingly toward aristrocratic forms. No gov't in history has been known to evade this pattern. And as the aristocracy develops, gov't tends more and mroe to act exclusively in the interests of the ruling class

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Re: You probably want to read this one

Postby diane bartels » Tue Apr 05, 2011 1:23 pm

I'll do anything you guys ask. Dont have a lot of tech skills though. One suggestion - posts which have no content in common with the avowed purpose of a thread should be automatically deleted.
I could be a bounce of person for anyone who moderates. Steve my thank you is getting posted in the annex. Thanks Rick.

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Re: You probably want to read this one

Postby Steve Evil » Tue Apr 05, 2011 1:38 pm

What do the jobs consist of?

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Re: You probably want to read this one

Postby diane bartels » Wed Apr 06, 2011 2:32 pm

The delete button should be the moderators best friend.

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Re: You probably want to read this one

Postby admin » Thu Apr 07, 2011 7:34 am

Moderators are responsible for making sure people follow the rules and play nice. I will expand the original rules and the moderators themselves can decide how they way to modify the existing ones or add new ones.

If someone doesn't read more than 1-2 forums, they can be a moderator for just those.

I'd prefer there to be a head moderator that can act as a tiebreaker or the "if you don't stop I'm taking this to daddy!" type. And also to work on it if a moderator is out of control.

Steve, Jan, Duane can tell you more about it. Since near as I can tell it mainly consists of being shit on by the people you are trying to help, there will be no more mod sass. If you have to bitch about moderation, you kick it upstairs. There are a lot of gray areas in moderation. I expect when a moderator makes one of those areas black it's because someone was trying to be clever or pushing the envelope.


As far as the site, we need some people familiar with content management systems. Someone needs to look at my wiki and decide it it will work for a more open collaborative system or if we should use something else. The website presently requires the following skills, not in just one person:

- php
- MySQL (and generally knowledge of SQL)
- writing HTML (and we should start using style sheets)
- Maintaining a content management system (most of these are pretty easy)
- Maintaining a photo/video gallery - must support Amazon S3, must support embedding photos/videos, must support categorizing and possibly tagging images/videos
(I can install both of these if needed, or stay away if that's wanted as well. :) )
- Creative types - mainly artists and graphical web designers

I see the layout as following:
- The Content Management system will handle things like the homepage, newpage, pavilion, gallery.
- The wiki will cover most information ABOUT harlan - publications, bios, stories, reviews
- there will be some HTML/php around the rest of it to do all the custom stuff you know and love

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Re: You probably want to read this one

Postby admin » Thu Apr 07, 2011 7:53 am

I am giving one month for word to get out an whatever posse might form to forum. Until then, I hope Steve will ride herd just a little bit to make sure we don't run the mess over a cliff.

If I don't have the proper volunteers by then, I am going to take over until I do. You do not want this to happen. Most of you are highly intelligent, well-read, well-spoken individuals with an astounding capacity to elucidate what's going on in your mind. I am not interested in arguing with with you over moderation - not because I disrespect you but because it is a waste of both of our capacities to have the goddamn Scopes Trial over you calling someone a shithead.

Therefore my moderating style is going to be warning - temp ban - permaban. If these means there is no one left by the time people decide they want to help out, it won't break my heart to see that happen. I think this is, and always has been, a wonderful place for people to exchange ideas, play around with political, intellectual, literary, musical notions, and just have fun. Unfortunately you seem to want to locate this wonderful Alongonguin round table in a snake pit.

I believe being kind to each other is a higher purpose than educating or entertaining each other. The future direction of this site, and this forum, will reflect that, at least as long as I am the High and Holy Lord of All. But as I am the lightning bolt and iron fist sort of Lord, I would recommend replacing me. I also recognize enforcing kindness with ruthlessness is inconsistent. Yet another reason for you to put a few layers between you and me.

One month. If you're not willing to help eradicate the blight, enjoy the brief warmth as the tree burns.

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Re: You probably want to read this one

Postby Moderator » Thu Apr 07, 2011 4:50 pm

Rick -
Natch, no problem. And we see eye to eye on your philosophy as to what this place should be and how we should be conducting ourselves. The problem IS in the gray, which inevitably people want to become black -- and then are unhappy it's black.

But I'll be happy to ride herd in the meantime. Was never my intent to abandon you...

IMHO, Duane might be an excellent option if he's willing to step forward. (Duane, this is how it began for me so many moons ago. Run, my friend. :wink: )

But until someone actually takes the wheel I'll stick to it. Figure we're in the classic two week (month) notice.
- I love to find adventure. All I need is a change of clothes, my Nikon, an open mind and a strong cup of coffee.

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Re: You probably want to read this one

Postby Jan » Sun Apr 10, 2011 4:17 pm

I think the forums need an overhaul as well as clear and useful rules before they need a moderator-only person. After the overhaul and with rules at hand, someone should just moderate on robot mode without buts and ifs.
The SPIDER forum is thread-edited, which I always thought needs to be done in the other forums too. This is one click away from Harlan's message board, and it shouldn't be a complete mess of kindergarten threads, one-line postings and exclamation marks. The Annex also turned into what I tried to prevent it from becoming.

---

"- The wiki will cover most information ABOUT harlan - publications, bios, stories, reviews"

Sounds like my thing. In theory, I would be happy to content-manage this for a while once the tech is in place.
Hm, I could move most of SPIDER out of here, add a sort of welcome page, an Ellison roadmap etc. and combine it with Webderland reviews and the bibliography in a well-organized fashion. Is this what you have in mind, Rick? In other words, I would need to use the material we have because we do not have a staff to write new content.
But I think I would still prefer to do all this in a phpBB fashion...
Most reviews of Ellison stories suck. Only if they have the character of an open discussion, they become something to think about and respond to. That works better. We don't have reviews to put in the wiki.
That would leave the Wiki to be a database. But we already have Langerhans and so on.
I can come to no conclusion at the moment.

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Re: You probably want to read this one

Postby Steve Evil » Mon Apr 11, 2011 5:02 am

The message board is not a "mess". It is a goldmine of conversation topics passionately engaged in by intelligent people. It is also a friendly, informal place where ideas are shared, jokes occasionally indulged in, and posters feel comfortable. Personally, I think I'd stagnate if not for this outlet, and would actually hate to see it done much differently.

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Re: You probably want to read this one

Postby Moderator » Mon Apr 11, 2011 7:13 am

Gee, Jan. Sorry I couldn't satisfy your vision for the Forums.

Go ahead and delete this, Rick, but it's precisely why I'm fed up.
- I love to find adventure. All I need is a change of clothes, my Nikon, an open mind and a strong cup of coffee.

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Re: You probably want to read this one

Postby Ezra Lb. » Mon Apr 11, 2011 8:02 pm

Yeah I hate those one line postings and those buts!!!! and ifs!!!! too.


Off with his head!!!!!!Off with his head!!!!!
“We must not always talk in the marketplace,” Hester Prynne said, “of what happens to us in the forest.”
-Nathaniel Hawthorne, The Scarlet Letter

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Re: You probably want to read this one

Postby Lori Koonce » Tue Apr 12, 2011 11:03 am

Jan
I think this is a grand place. At the Pavy I have to be very careful how I say the few things I say there. I can be really rough around the edges at times, and knowning this I'm not as free with my thoughts and feelings.

But, here I'm free to be myself, warts and all. And there is always someone to call me on my bullshit here. And, besides this is more like a real time conversation. I don't know about you and your friends, but me and mine always joke arund and what have you.

Steve has done a grand job keeping this a friendly place where intelegence is more important than lengts or any other criteria you can think of.


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