So I consider myself a Rational Humanist, apparently

General discussions of interest to readers and fans of Harlan Ellison.

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Duane
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Re: So I consider myself a Rational Humanist, apparently

Postby Duane » Sat Nov 13, 2010 9:41 pm

Oh yeah, the culmination of the whole "rational humanist" facebook situation:

My cousin Rick opined that I wasn't a very good Mormon if I held certain liberal beliefs. My friend Braden asked me my top three reasons for being "liberal," and we ended up having a fun multi-day discussion about his Libertarian beliefs. Then another cousin Devin chimed in with additional comments about how the fact I was unemployed meant that I was being more liberal than I would normally would be (hence, once I get a job, I'll believe like he does that President Obama was born in Kenya, that Sarah Palin makes sense, and that evolution "has no merit," this despite the fact that he has a degree in Microbiology and is a physician). Then my brother Stuart piped in with "be a damn liberal all you want Obama is a piece of shit now what are you doing for Thanksgiving?"

I ended up deleting everything except for my exchange with Braden. I should have left it all up, but I just wasn't in the mood.

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Ezra Lb.
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Re: So I consider myself a Rational Humanist, apparently

Postby Ezra Lb. » Sun Nov 14, 2010 9:59 am

Mormons, huh?

Well you might want to remind your Mormon family and friends that my Southern Baptist family and friends don't think they are "real" Christians although they probably agree politically about everything.

Maybe if we can get these groups squabbling with one another about who's a real Christian (very important judging by the amount of time they spend discussing it) they'll leave us secular rationalist folks alone until we can build up sufficient numbers to take over.

Then we'll rope off the state of Mississippi and part of Texas and turn it into a re-education camp and force them to watch episodes of COSMOS and read Richard Dawkins' books until they get with the program or their brains explode.
“We must not always talk in the marketplace,” Hester Prynne said, “of what happens to us in the forest.”
-Nathaniel Hawthorne, The Scarlet Letter

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Re: So I consider myself a Rational Humanist, apparently

Postby swp » Sun Nov 14, 2010 11:30 am

Ezra Lb. wrote:Then we'll rope off the state of Mississippi and part of Texas and turn it into a re-education camp and force them to watch episodes of COSMOS and read Richard Dawkins' books until they get with the program or their brains explode.
So would this be the "rational" or "humanist" part of that philosophy in action? ;-)
swp

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FrankChurch
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Re: So I consider myself a Rational Humanist, apparently

Postby FrankChurch » Sun Nov 14, 2010 2:37 pm

Ask them if they think Mormons are against human rights?

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Re: So I consider myself a Rational Humanist, apparently

Postby Lori Koonce » Mon Nov 15, 2010 1:02 pm

Frank

While I don't deal well with religion per say, and even though 1/3 of my family are Mormons, I've got to say that it's a rather messed up religion.

For example, did you know that up untill 1980, the Mormons believed that Blacks were that color because somewhere in their history, one of 'em pissed God off enough to burn the lot of them? Or that the only reason Mormon women have so many kids is because it assures themselves, their husbands and the kids a place in heaven. And to top it all off, they believe in a really strange type of reincarnation.

Now having spent 5 of the most formative years of my life trying to be a good little Southern Baptist, I can say they aren't much better. But at least I can UNDERSTAND those folks a bit better.

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FrankChurch
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Re: So I consider myself a Rational Humanist, apparently

Postby FrankChurch » Mon Nov 15, 2010 2:19 pm

The social gospel never reached the Mormons.

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Ezra Lb.
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Re: So I consider myself a Rational Humanist, apparently

Postby Ezra Lb. » Mon Nov 15, 2010 3:10 pm

swp wrote:
Ezra Lb. wrote:Then we'll rope off the state of Mississippi and part of Texas and turn it into a re-education camp and force them to watch episodes of COSMOS and read Richard Dawkins' books until they get with the program or their brains explode.
So would this be the "rational" or "humanist" part of that philosophy in action? ;-)


Yeah every group has its fanatical wing including the Rationalists. :lol:


Lori Koonce wrote:Frank

While I don't deal well with religion per say, and even though 1/3 of my family are Mormons, I've got to say that it's a rather messed up religion.

For example, did you know that up untill 1980, the Mormons believed that Blacks were that color because somewhere in their history, one of 'em pissed God off enough to burn the lot of them? Or that the only reason Mormon women have so many kids is because it assures themselves, their husbands and the kids a place in heaven. And to top it all off, they believe in a really strange type of reincarnation.

Now having spent 5 of the most formative years of my life trying to be a good little Southern Baptist, I can say they aren't much better. But at least I can UNDERSTAND those folks a bit better.


What I would genuinely like to know is whether there is a liberal wing of the Mormon church? That interprets the stories symbolically rather than literally? Believe it or not there are liberal Southern Baptists. My minister friend is one. It's all relative of course. He still believes Jesus literally rose from the dead (I don't see myself how you could be a Christian and not believe that) but he smiles when you ask him about Adam and Eve.
“We must not always talk in the marketplace,” Hester Prynne said, “of what happens to us in the forest.”
-Nathaniel Hawthorne, The Scarlet Letter

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Chuck Messer
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Re: So I consider myself a Rational Humanist, apparently

Postby Chuck Messer » Mon Nov 15, 2010 4:03 pm

Bill Maher: [a tenet of Mormonism] Dark skin is a curse from God,
[photos of Michael Jackson's transformation pop up at the bottom of the screen]
Bill Maher: but if you're sufficiently righteous, a dark-skin person can become light-skin.


Himself (Bachman, Tal): [an ex-Mormon] In the founding scriptures, you open the doctrine covenant, you read the autobiography of Joseph Smith. He quotes Jesus Christ as telling him that every other creed on Earth is, quote, an abomination. That's not a very ecumenical statement.


Bill Maher: The idea that Christianity is American, I think, is an amazing entitlement to a people who are always trying to meld God and country.
Himself (Gardiner, Bill (V)): The Garden of Eden was in Missouri, according to Mormonism. The new Jerusalem will be there.
Bill Maher: Branson, I hope.


At one point Maher says something like: "It's not easy being the new religion in town. All the usual crazy shit has been picked over and so you've got to come up with even crazier shit."

A number of family members are or were Mormon, and I think it did them more harm than good. I'm afraid it may be due to my grandmother's penchant for really off-beat Christian sects.

Chuck
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Steve Evil
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Re: So I consider myself a Rational Humanist, apparently

Postby Steve Evil » Mon Nov 15, 2010 4:29 pm

The Mormons once comissioned a very friendly ad in which a bunch of school kids brightened the day of an old man with a broken arm by bringing him a pizza. I still remember the tune: "Share a little bit of yourself without even knowing. . ." I've seen worse ads.

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Chuck Messer
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Re: So I consider myself a Rational Humanist, apparently

Postby Chuck Messer » Mon Nov 15, 2010 5:39 pm

That's simply good marketing. Of course, there are decent people who are mormons, probably most of them.

But I dare them to put out an ad that tells the public at large that they believe God is a physical guy, over six feet tall, who lives on another planet orbiting another star, and that he impregnated Mary the old fashioned way: by doing the horizontal bop with her. Virgin, indeed.

Chuck
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Lori Koonce
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Re: So I consider myself a Rational Humanist, apparently

Postby Lori Koonce » Tue Nov 16, 2010 11:38 am

There are decent people in all religions. I just don't see how people can believe something that is riddled with inconsistencies.

I mean, God supposedly only made 4 people.... Adam, Eve and Cain and Able. Cain killed Able, so now we are down to three. But, if you believe the bible, when they were kicked outta Eden, they found people to marry and all that stuff.

So, where did all those people come from. And I actually pointed out to my rather religious mother that at some point in time god had to condone incest. I mean how do you go from 3 to 7.5 billion without a little of it. When you explain to her that you believe that God stopped it once there was enough genetic diversity, she gives ya the most dirty and confused look.

When the mood is right, it can be quite fun! *giggle*

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Duane
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Re: So I consider myself a Rational Humanist, apparently

Postby Duane » Tue Nov 16, 2010 1:34 pm

I actually do have a response to some of the comments posted here. Give me a while to whittle them down to their essence so they make sense. Check this space.

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Steve Evil
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Re: So I consider myself a Rational Humanist, apparently

Postby Steve Evil » Tue Nov 16, 2010 2:07 pm

The Bible doesn't say He didn't create other Edens. . .

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Chuck Messer
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Re: So I consider myself a Rational Humanist, apparently

Postby Chuck Messer » Tue Nov 16, 2010 8:09 pm

Egads, that means we flunked the Tree of Knowlege test multiple times.

This God person seems a rather warped diety.

Chuck
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Re: So I consider myself a Rational Humanist, apparently

Postby Lori Koonce » Thu Nov 18, 2010 1:21 pm

Steve Evil wrote:The Bible doesn't say He didn't create other Edens. . .


This is true, but then again it dosen't say what the frack God did before making earth. But why is it that my opinion is less valid than some dumbfrack who decided to go to seminary?

I mean for awhile, I played the idea that we have 9 planets because the first 8 were practice. But I never told a soul. I'd have been blackballed from most churches in the area. Not to mention the time I started getting Earth Religions and Christianity to actually fit together to my liking.

Spirituality is a good thing. It is that which helps you realize that the world isn't just what we see with our eyes and expirence with our other senses. It's the thing that makes people generous and all the good things we expect from people possible.

Religion on the other hand, imho, is just some crazy people who want to control others, finding the most sheep-like people on the planet and telling them what they want to hear.


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