Scottish Ban?

General discussions of interest to readers and fans of Harlan Ellison.

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paul
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Scottish Ban?

Postby paul » Mon Aug 24, 2009 9:50 am

Graham's words are remarkable for their passion, and I am in no way denigrating them at all. His words, as education, certainly beat hell out of FAUX News empty-head Nationalist Chest-Beating, and I applauded out loud when I read it. Damn well done.

It just bugs me that I believe: to those who agree that a"boycott" is ridiculous, it is so self-evident, and that those who will never get the message will see it as fire-feeding and continue ignorant knee-jerking instead of reasoned discussion.

There are people I've talked to who did not know about any thoughts of a "boycott", as indeed i didn't until Saturday. Never heard of it, the idea. I know some folk who don't know and wouldn't care if they did, some for the fact it doesn't concern them directly, others for the fact they see most news-spin ruses for what they are. And I find that unless it comes up in conversation, I don't even want to discuss it. Like octamoms and birthers and 9/11 conspiricists, I just can't bring myself to talk about them, to give them credence. I want these topics to die a natural death, as god intended.

The only reason I'm bringing it up now is- I'm wondering, does anyone else feel that way? On the one hand, wanting to educate, and on the other, just wanting it to go quietly away? I guess I'm wondering if I do a disservice by not talking about it. Some things, like Health Care, are noteworthy and (to me) significant enough to discuss.
We can deliberate why Megrahi was released, sure, but all the reactionary talk about a 'Scottish Ban'? Forget it. As if it will happen. As though so many Republican and Democratic 'elites' and die-hard 'patriots' are gonna give up their golf and their single malt. I don't think so.

Hell, I don't even know if it's worth putting the question out here in the first place.
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Re: Scottish Ban?

Postby Gwyneth M905 » Mon Aug 24, 2009 12:16 pm

paul wrote: As though so many Republican and Democratic 'elites' and die-hard 'patriots' are gonna give up their golf and their single malt. I don't think so.


Hell, yeah! Graham's points about the politics behind the decision at least show that our oligopoly doesn't have the monopoly on fatcats trading blood for oil. Yeah, the less said about this, the better. Unless all the good folks with construction equipment want to make some midnight runs on Republican golf courses! Can we say "Divots from HELL!!!" And a good single malt, especially Glenmorangie Madeira finish, is a terrible thing to waste. "Freedom" Bourbon doesn't even come close! :)
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FrankChurch
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Re: Scottish Ban?

Postby FrankChurch » Mon Aug 24, 2009 12:36 pm

Scottish shortbread maybe. Ick.

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Re: Scottish Ban?

Postby Moderator » Mon Aug 24, 2009 12:57 pm

This is one of those moments when nobody behaves very well. I understand the compassion from the Scottish and British courts, but given that it was an American airliner brought down we should have been consulted and our sentiments weighed before decisions were made -- it's no more than extending a courtesy in this regard. On the other hand, our reaction has been over the top, as has the reaction in Libya.

Nobody can be proud of themselves, and the high road is looking pretty empty despite the fact the Scottish felt they were being humanitarian. (There's a contract inherent in "Life Sentence" when it comes to mass murder, which the Scottish courts seem to have ignored. Doesn't excuse us either, but...)
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FrankChurch
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Re: Scottish Ban?

Postby FrankChurch » Mon Aug 24, 2009 1:04 pm

The irony is about as thick as the smell of bleach on a newly mopped floor. We gaggle about one guy being released but don't care that Bush and Cheney are running free. What a country.

I'm not talking about you guys.

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David Loftus
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Re: Scottish Ban?

Postby David Loftus » Mon Aug 24, 2009 2:03 pm

This reminds me of nothing so much as the typical uproar from the American public when a whale gets beached or marooned in an ice lake, while thousands of Vietnamese civilians, or Afghani civilians, or Iraqi civilians are dying from American bombs, gas attacks, radiation, and bullets.
War is, at first, the hope that one will be better off; next, the expectation that the other fellow will be worse off; then, the satisfaction that he isn't any better off; and, finally, the surprise at everyone's being worse off. - Karl Kraus

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Ezra Lb.
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Re: Scottish Ban?

Postby Ezra Lb. » Mon Aug 24, 2009 3:39 pm

What more do Americans want? The bastard has been tried and found guilty and is being executed by the court before which there is no appeal.

Of course whether or not the Scots were being "compassionate" or just wheeling and dealing remains to be seen.
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FinderDoug
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Re: Scottish Ban?

Postby FinderDoug » Wed Aug 26, 2009 9:53 am

I'm still unconvinced that al-Megrahi was actually the bomber.

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FrankChurch
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Re: Scottish Ban?

Postby FrankChurch » Wed Aug 26, 2009 12:37 pm

Very good Dougie. Some on the left say that Iran may have done the bombing, not Libya.

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Steve Evil
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Re: Scottish Ban?

Postby Steve Evil » Wed Aug 26, 2009 12:42 pm

Many people, including some of the victim's families are similarly unconvinced. That's what's disturbing about all this self righteous talk. When a crime is committed, too often the need for vengeance completely overshadows the question of whether the right perpetrator is being punished.

And why this anger at Scotland? As if America has never shielded criminals. (Or France or England for that matter. . )

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FrankChurch
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Re: Scottish Ban?

Postby FrankChurch » Wed Aug 26, 2009 1:38 pm

Holy shit, I was right:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/u ... 797773.ece

Has the American media reported this? The Times is a conservative newspaper.

I thought you guys only said I use lefty sources? Mooks.

reddragon70
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Re: Scottish Ban?

Postby reddragon70 » Wed Aug 26, 2009 2:34 pm

Frank mate you can use any source you like. And its a good point in the article. ONe that has been mentioned many times in the past 10 years or so.

For political convenience Libya made a better target than Iran. So a seed of a lie is sown to be propagated by the mass media until everyone in the world "knows" that Libya was the ones who put the bomb on that Pan Am plane. Right? Al Megrahi had very little chance of a fair trial because everyone believed he did it before he stepped into the court. (I am not saying he didnt place the bomb or he did, just making observations on the process.) After all someone had to held accountable. The drive for revenge and the drive for justice are not always easy to tell apart.

What also needs to be remembered is that yesterdays enemy becomes tomorrows ally. And vice versa of course.

If anyone in the USA is angry that Megrahi has been released then take it up with my government. Dont however start banning all things Scottish and destroying a fragile economy because of something that is, at the end of the day, a dumb fuck up by politicians. We didnt ban everything American when a certain senile former actor turned president managed to cause diplomatic disasters now did we???

Sadly this is all little more than a storm in a tea cup. And it saddens me deeply seeing supposed adults throwning toys out of the pram in the name of "patriotism".

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Steve Evil
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Re: Scottish Ban?

Postby Steve Evil » Sat Aug 29, 2009 10:39 pm

William Calley only got house arrest. Three years. At least the Scots gave Megrahi ( who may not even have done it), what, twenty years (?) in a real jail.

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FrankChurch
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Re: Scottish Ban?

Postby FrankChurch » Sun Aug 30, 2009 11:16 am

The FBI says he didn't do it. I'm an anarchist, I always trust the FBI.

Calley was a scapegoat.

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Steve Evil
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Re: Scottish Ban?

Postby Steve Evil » Tue Sep 01, 2009 12:01 pm

Steve Evil wrote: twenty years (?) in a real jail.


Mea Culpa! It was eight years. Of a twenty-seven year sentence. Still, that's eight more years than Calley got (or the commanding officer of the USS Vincennes come to think of it).

Point being Frank, did anyone associated with My Lai, fall guy or otherwise, serve time?


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