THE PAVILION ANNEX

General discussions of interest to readers and fans of Harlan Ellison.

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FrankChurch
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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby FrankChurch » Wed Aug 07, 2013 12:45 pm

Leaders always fear the people, nothing new there. Castro at least takes care of his people so that they can have a long life, while we tell people to buy some crap insurance and hope they don't get denied coverage.

Why doesn't Castro jail and torture them? Best not to defend the right wing cubans who have done some awful things. The Bay Of Pigs comes to mind.

When Castro dies I suspect there will be more freedom. Radio Marti, now that's crap.

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Robert Nason
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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby Robert Nason » Wed Aug 07, 2013 11:43 pm

Still arguing about Cuba, at this late date? Oh, man, what's left to argue about? Castro was a dictator -- his boyhood idols were Franco and Mussolini, and he followed in their footsteps, only learning from their mistakes. Thus he was even more repressive, more brutal to his political opponents -- and even worse to his friends. His Marxist-Leninist palaver entranced Allen Ginsberg and Norman Mailer (who wrote.that Castro wss like a "mighty cock" rising out of the Caribbean and pointed at the evil USA). Even the New York Times fell in love with this strutting, rutting caudillo, hailing him as a "liberal reformer" until Castro declared "I am a Marxist-Leninist and will be one until I die." What he was, in fact, was another Latin American macho strongman who's probably still pissed at the US because the New York Giants rejected him back when he was swinging a bat instead of flapping his gums. (Those eight-hour speeches he used to give must have been sheer hell for all those Cubans forced to attend them -- and Fidel's secret police made sure that anyone who wasn't ecstatically applauding his interminable diatribes was invited back to headquarters for "a little talk.") God help the countless gays who were put in psychiatric prisons and had electric shocks administered to their genitals in the Cuban version of the Ludovico treatment to "make them straight."

Where was, say, the Village Voice during all this? Writing angry columns about homophobia in Hoboken. Yes, True, taught the peasants to read, but he censored everything that wasn't about him. At least the Cuban people will have the pleasure to read Fidel's obituary when the Great Leader finally cashes in his chipotles.
"Thought is a strenuous art -- few practice it, and then only at rare times." - David Ben-Gurion

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FrankChurch
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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby FrankChurch » Thu Aug 08, 2013 8:59 am


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FrankChurch
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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby FrankChurch » Thu Aug 08, 2013 9:31 am

Nason, odd that Cuba pays a hundred percent for the cocktails that deal with HIV/AIDS. If they hate homosexuals why do they try to cure them? They also pay for sex changes.

Iam Lumsdon has a book out that says homophobia is largely gone from Cuba. Don't forget that that is a very conservative part of the world on many issues. Obviously at one time homosexuality was demonized there, paranoia that homosexuals were part of the petty bourgeois.

What you didn't mention was the fact that homosexuals were really demonized and jailed during the Batista era, when we were buddies with them. The Mafia ran the place. Castro did ask us for a Marshall Plan for them and we told them to fuck off. Soviet Union walked in.

Mark Tiedemann
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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby Mark Tiedemann » Thu Aug 08, 2013 9:57 am

FrankChurch wrote:Nason, odd that Cuba pays a hundred percent for the cocktails that deal with HIV/AIDS. If they hate homosexuals why do they try to cure them? They also pay for sex changes.



Because like most people they realized HIV/AIDS is not a homosexual disease.

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Robert Nason
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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby Robert Nason » Thu Aug 08, 2013 2:24 pm

Good point, Mark.

Cuba may have relaxed some of its anti-gay activities in recent years, but for a very long time they persecuted gays to the point where countless gay Cubans fled to Miami any way they could. Batista may have harrassed and arrested gays, but there was still a flourishing gay subculture in Havana during his rule.

I'm not sure if the US withdrew offers of a "Marshall Plan" for Cuba or if Castro rejected it. It's worth noting that Stalin refused offers for a Marshall Plan for the Soviet bloc after WWII. Leftists all denounced it at the time as a form of "US imperialism." Damned if you do and damned if you don't.
"Thought is a strenuous art -- few practice it, and then only at rare times." - David Ben-Gurion

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Ezra Lb.
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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby Ezra Lb. » Thu Aug 08, 2013 3:24 pm

You all realize you're arguing with someone who likes Castro because he had a photo opp with Noam Chomsky? :lol:
“We must not always talk in the marketplace,” Hester Prynne said, “of what happens to us in the forest.”
-Nathaniel Hawthorne, The Scarlet Letter

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Lori Koonce
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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby Lori Koonce » Thu Aug 08, 2013 4:41 pm

FrankChurch wrote:Nason, that was rather imperial of ya.

Lookie:

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-EbZBZvDokkc/T ... Castro.jpg

Barber, lookie:

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_otWn2PlEOdY/S ... 600.1.jpeg



Your point?

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Robert Nason
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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby Robert Nason » Thu Aug 08, 2013 5:29 pm

Frank -- are we supposed to be surprised that Noam Chomsky would pose for a picture with Castro, or that the late Venezuelan strongman Chavez would be in a photo reading (or appear to be reading) a book by Chomsky? Birds of a feather poop on America together.

I give the 4 "C"s -- Castro, Chavez, Chomsky, and Church -- a C minus.
"Thought is a strenuous art -- few practice it, and then only at rare times." - David Ben-Gurion

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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby Moderator » Thu Aug 08, 2013 7:43 pm



I do wish you'd pay attention. As I've now noted seven or eight times, I'm not a trained poodle. To reiterate: Other people making your arguments for you is lazy, and makes you appear to be unable to argue on your own behalf. I know you're perfectly capable of making your own points, but you are for some reason reluctant to do so.

Use referrals to support your point of view, not define it.
- I love to find adventure. All I need is a change of clothes, my Nikon, an open mind and a strong cup of coffee.

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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby Moderator » Thu Aug 08, 2013 7:45 pm

Lori Koonce wrote:Your point?


'Zactly.
- I love to find adventure. All I need is a change of clothes, my Nikon, an open mind and a strong cup of coffee.

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Lori Koonce
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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby Lori Koonce » Thu Aug 08, 2013 8:09 pm

Barber wrote:
Lori Koonce wrote:Your point?


'Zactly.


You and I get it, but I doubt the lazy intellectual ever will.

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FrankChurch
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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby FrankChurch » Fri Aug 09, 2013 12:31 pm

Nason, Chomsky is the leading human rights guy, right up there with MLK, so that was pretty low.

So, if I describe how we supported Saddam Hussein, because I want us to stop supporting guys who gas the Kurds, that makes me anti-American. Should I just pretend it didn't happen so I can be more popular? How then does that help the Kurds?

I'd think helping the Kurds would be more important than trying to gin up false popularity.

You want me to enable the drunk uncle by giving him more booze, when an intervention is more in order. Even the Founders wrote that we could change the whole system if we want. A good call.

-----------

Sorry, Barber, was trying to be funny.

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Robert Nason
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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby Robert Nason » Fri Aug 09, 2013 7:07 pm

Getting rid of Saddam Hussein was the best thing that ever happened to the.Kurds. The've got their own flourishing semi-independent state in the north now, and they're doing just fine, thank you. And we made it happen. Yeah, us. The United States. With no help from Professor Chomping-at-the-bit-sky.
"Thought is a strenuous art -- few practice it, and then only at rare times." - David Ben-Gurion

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Ezra Lb.
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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby Ezra Lb. » Sat Aug 10, 2013 12:28 am

Frank in your last post you made a perfect case for invading Iraq and removing Saddam Hussein. Bush and Chaney swoon in each others arms. :D
“We must not always talk in the marketplace,” Hester Prynne said, “of what happens to us in the forest.”
-Nathaniel Hawthorne, The Scarlet Letter


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