THE PAVILION ANNEX

General discussions of interest to readers and fans of Harlan Ellison.

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Rick Keeney
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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby Rick Keeney » Fri Nov 12, 2010 2:53 pm

Lori and Steve are both correct.

Just call me,
Thumper

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FrankChurch
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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby FrankChurch » Fri Nov 12, 2010 2:55 pm

Amnesty International is saying that since Bush admitted to torture he can be tried.

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Ezra Lb.
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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby Ezra Lb. » Fri Nov 12, 2010 9:19 pm

FrankChurch wrote:Amnesty International is saying that since Bush admitted to torture he can be tried.


But he knows he won't be thus his willingness to admit his responsibility.
“We must not always talk in the marketplace,” Hester Prynne said, “of what happens to us in the forest.”
-Nathaniel Hawthorne, The Scarlet Letter

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swp
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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby swp » Fri Nov 12, 2010 9:52 pm

Ezra Lb. wrote:
FrankChurch wrote:Amnesty International is saying that since Bush admitted to torture he can be tried.
But he knows he won't be thus his willingness to admit his responsibility.
Interesting use of the word "responsibility" there. I thought what he did was admit to an action (or set of actions), and to having knowledge of the actions of others, but at no time do I recall him admitting responsibility for any of it. Actions without consequences, so to speak.
swp

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Ezra Lb.
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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby Ezra Lb. » Sat Nov 13, 2010 7:14 am

swp wrote:
Ezra Lb. wrote:
FrankChurch wrote:Amnesty International is saying that since Bush admitted to torture he can be tried.
But he knows he won't be thus his willingness to admit his responsibility.
Interesting use of the word "responsibility" there. I thought what he did was admit to an action (or set of actions), and to having knowledge of the actions of others, but at no time do I recall him admitting responsibility for any of it. Actions without consequences, so to speak.


Well in your sense of the word I suppose that would be correct. But Bush explicitly said he gave the order and to me that is an admission of responsibility. To expect any deeper awareness on Bush's part is to expect just a little too much I'm afraid. The bastard will go to his grave never getting it.

robochrist wrote:My sentiments for Obama have moved across quite a spectrum:

Starts with hope...shifts to disappointment...boils to frustration...slides now into the perception that he is outright incompetent.

Given the swarms of voters poorly tutored on the issues, Obama and about two-thirds of the Democrats have failed to grasp or utilize the tactics and voice needed to meet the broad, complicated mess we face. I'm tired of the gratuitous kisses all over the place, the representatives blinded by the comfort of their own wealth, and unresponsive to the criticism toward poor marketing (endlessly advised to talk on the campaign about the accomplishments - thus far, slow but sure - NONE of them took the steps).

It's TOO much.


Rob I feel your pain.

I’ll admit it, I let myself be convinced that because Obama was a black man and because his election was such a watershed moment that his presidency would be a real change in our politics. If you look at his record he was always a fairly conservative middle-of- the-road-politician. Now I didn’t want a Democratic version of Bush who would take advantage of events and mindlessly push through not very well thought out programs, but I can’t help but believe a tremendous opportunity has been squandered here.

Obama bent over backwards to accommodate the Republicans way past the point where it was clear they weren’t going to do anything but obstruct the process and he has never shown any willingness to fight for programs that might require some risk. Sure the health care bill has some good things but the one thing that would have helped limit costs, the public option, was surrendered without even a peep.

Obama governs like a Professor leading a graduate civics seminar. He doesn’t seem to realize that the American people don’t want facts, they want you to tell them a story. And like nature, politics abhors a vacuum. He let the Repubs tell the story and in two short years they are born again hard, dumber and meaner than ever.

For the next two years all Obama can do is play defense which is exactly what he’s been doing all along.
“We must not always talk in the marketplace,” Hester Prynne said, “of what happens to us in the forest.”
-Nathaniel Hawthorne, The Scarlet Letter

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robochrist
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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby robochrist » Sat Nov 13, 2010 12:00 pm

"If you look at his record he was always a fairly conservative middle-of- the-road-politician"

Yeah...or more specifically, he is a Corporatist Democrat (in a line begun by Clinton), exactly what we DON'T need to solve these crises. Obama uses rhetoric and centrist policies in behalf of the middle class but stubbornly ingratiates Goldman-Sachs types. Obama is a man buried in big money like too many others, thus his empathy with the common man is abstract at best (I now believe). This "Cuddly Bear" strategy he's clung to is incredibly dangerous, as jobs continue being exported like helium out of a deflating balloon.

My own greater frustration, as I've expressed on this site so many times, is the inability of voters to know the issues, and know WHERE their justifiable anger needs to direct itself. The people who wind up in DC are there because of ignorant voters. Thus, the country is cutting its own stupid throat. While I have to seek ways to survive ('least I haven't a mortgage to worry about, nor any more credit card debts), I feel no optimism in things to come.

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FrankChurch
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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby FrankChurch » Sat Nov 13, 2010 1:21 pm

Adolph Reed knew of him in 1996 and always thought he was a corporate fraud.

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Ezra Lb.
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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby Ezra Lb. » Sat Nov 13, 2010 5:32 pm

FrankChurch wrote:Adolph Reed knew of him in 1996 and always thought he was a corporate fraud.


Well damn Frank, why didn't you warn us?

Who is Adoph Reed?
“We must not always talk in the marketplace,” Hester Prynne said, “of what happens to us in the forest.”
-Nathaniel Hawthorne, The Scarlet Letter

cynic
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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby cynic » Sun Nov 14, 2010 1:01 pm

:|
follow your bliss,mike

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FrankChurch
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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby FrankChurch » Sun Nov 14, 2010 2:38 pm

Mike, speak.

----------

Ezra, google it, ya mookster.

cynic
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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby cynic » Mon Nov 15, 2010 2:43 pm

I'm way behind on all my reading,
don't know if this has been brought up,
it's kinda... funny/strange/scary ?

http://www.nytimes.com/learning/general ... c=a213&nl=
follow your bliss,mike

cynic
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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby cynic » Mon Nov 15, 2010 2:45 pm

i might have pointed out; who is george wallace?
follow your bliss,mike

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robochrist
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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby robochrist » Tue Nov 16, 2010 4:15 am

I'm sure this is like headlines news to everyone here, but in the early 90's I was something of a grunger.

Of late, I've been pulling out those soundtracks! The times have never been more existentialist and ill-boding!

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FrankChurch
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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby FrankChurch » Tue Nov 16, 2010 2:59 pm

As long as you remember that those Seattle grubbers stole the music from LA hardcore from the 80s.

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Rick Keeney
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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby Rick Keeney » Wed Nov 17, 2010 8:59 pm

nononononononononononononono

the only "grunger" whose music matters, Kurt Cobain, made it very clear he was stealing from the Pixies, and them is Boston-folk

pearl jam, god bless you


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