THE PAVILION ANNEX

General discussions of interest to readers and fans of Harlan Ellison.

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Gwyneth M905
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Helen Thomas and Freedom of Speech

Postby Gwyneth M905 » Sun Jun 13, 2010 5:26 pm

Hi, Sara and Diane,
You have been in my thoughts lately. Sara, I agree completely with you about Helen Thomas. Hannity, Limbaugh, Beck, Coulter, regularly say that Muslims or Muslim-Americans should be rounded up, imprisoned or killed if they don't convert to Christianity. The last was by Coulter. She didn't lose a $30,000 speaking gig, get forcibly "retired", or drummed out of the press corps. (Although her membership is probably a moot point.)

Helen Thomas apologized immediately for what she said. The Washington Press Corps turned on her because she's the only one with the cojones (sp?) to ask the really tough questions. Like asking Bush, "Why are we in Iraq?" The rest of the press corp could be replaced by 11 year olds who would ask better, more pointed, questions.

She's challenged the government on waterboarding and other torture, extraordinary renditions by the US to countries who will torture for us, prisoners held without being charged, the moral and legal right to be in Iraq or Afghanistan. The rest of the press corp just ask pablum questions to give the politicians a platform to spout their spin. After all, the major networks don't want to anger the government, they have the FCC to worry about.

At least we're better than Chavez. The last remaining independent critical broadcaster and his son have warrants out for their immediate arrest on the trumped up charge of "hoarding cars". The other stations were shut down long ago. Scary.
I want to learn the ways of the Force and become a Jedi Knight, the same as my Father.
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Sara Slaymaker
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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby Sara Slaymaker » Sun Jun 13, 2010 8:01 pm

Hi Diane, how you doin'? Gwennie, any news yet?

It just floors me that "pundits" like Coulter and Limbaugh get away with saying the shit they say - and if held to the same standard as Helen Thomas, would scream "freedom of speech! First amendment! How DARE you try to stomp on my rights!"

As if it's ok to stomp on muslims simply because they're muslim. How, pray, is it different? Who said it's ok to shit on one group of people and not on another?

Lots of rhetorical questions, there, no need to respond.

As Pogo said, "we have met the enemy..."
Change is a dragon. You can ignore it, which is futile. You can fight it, in which case you will lose. Or you can ride it.

Gwyneth M905
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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby Gwyneth M905 » Sun Jun 13, 2010 8:19 pm

Sara Slaymaker wrote:Hi Diane, how you doin'? Gwennie, any news yet?


No news, but that's good news. :) I've been living on home-made halal chicken soup and rice -- I can get the bones for $.99 at the halal butcher and boil up some mighty nice broth. That and cranberry juice from concentrate.

What's interesting is that finances have effectively cut dairy from my diet. Less gut pain. So perhaps was even a dairy allergy? It's weird though that I could go from being so *extremely* uncomfortable--and I have a high pain tolerance---to feeling, well, yeah, rather well. The mostly liquid diet has helped, I think.

Don'tcha just love when I greet on and on about my health concerns? I'm reminded of cleaning out my Gran's apartment and finding a magazine from 1944 with the screaming headline "What Women Really Talk About in Private!!!" The answer, of course, was their health. :lol: I got a chuckle out of that.
I want to learn the ways of the Force and become a Jedi Knight, the same as my Father.
STAR WARS (1977)

Kafkahead
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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby Kafkahead » Mon Jun 14, 2010 3:18 am

Kafka here

I'm not much of a politics person, as the conflict seems always to fall under the same old idea: political interests instead of human interests.
Why bash on Christians? Why bash on Muslims? Why bash on anyone? Why can't we simply try to find a way to get along, so that everyone may benefit with it? Problems shouldn't be the divisor of the people, they should instead unite them. Even within the media, things seem to fall down to the same idea of faction vs. faction: with American pundits, or to be fair, the ones which I know more about, such as Hannity, O'Reilly, Olbermann, among others, there seems to be a discussion on politics that simply looks as if they were playing a game of tug-o-war, with added insults and blows.
I support many ideals of the left (living in a country where the socialist left is cut down by the more capitalist parties, whether more center-left or more center-right, I should know), since many of them support the concepts of Humanism itself, and I believe Left should debate things with the Right, no strings attached, no denigrating comments about each other, only constructive and/or evaluative criticism, so that both may unite and form a single path: Progress.
Excuse me for the rant, but this discussion of left and right ends up being a bit tiring. Here in Portugal, our governing party is the Partido Socialista, or the PS (Socialist Party), but it is one of the most misleading names ever: the actual socialist party is called Bloco de Esquerda (Left Bloc). It frustrates me that both can't actually argue about the future of my country, and that the same happens in others.

Again, sorry for the rant.

K.

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FrankChurch
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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby FrankChurch » Mon Jun 14, 2010 2:59 pm

That's what is funny about Europe: you call yourself a social democrat and you govern like a right winger. Corruption and power govern there as much as here. Thomas Ferguson basically says that politics is about who can buy the elections. We need to change that.

Richard Keeney
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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby Richard Keeney » Mon Jun 14, 2010 10:33 pm

K-head, et. al.,

One thing every politician knows, and ignored was put to words by a great American/Capitalist named P. T. Barnum:

“Money is a terrible master but an excellent servant”
"It would be interesting to know what it is men are most afraid of. Taking a new step, uttering a new word is what they fear most."
--F. Dostoievsky, from CRIME AND PUNISHMENT

Gwyneth M905
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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby Gwyneth M905 » Tue Jun 15, 2010 5:15 am

Richard Keeney wrote:K-head, et. al.,

One thing every politician knows, and ignored was put to words by a great American/Capitalist named P. T. Barnum:

“Money is a terrible master but an excellent servant”


Richard, ain't it the truth! :) And wouldn't I just love a retinue of Benjamin Franklins peeling me grapes at this very moment... :P

What would you do, bucket list style, if money were no object?
I want to learn the ways of the Force and become a Jedi Knight, the same as my Father.
STAR WARS (1977)

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markabaddon
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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby markabaddon » Tue Jun 15, 2010 10:48 am

Gwynnie, glad to hear that you are feeling better. In a situation such as yours, I would definitely interpret no news as good news. As to what I would do if money were not an object, I would travel. Spend at least a month in Italy, spend some time in Israel, visit the pyramids of Egypt, spend a couple of weeks in Hawaii, etc.

Sara, the argument that the Rush/Coulter/Becks of the world often make is that they are entertainers and thus can say whatever they want. I am not defending that argument, merely reporting it. Why the reverse does not apply when someone like the Dixie Chicks made a comment about then Pres. Bush merely confirms the hypocrisy of the far right
Governments, if they endure, always tend increasingly toward aristrocratic forms. No gov't in history has been known to evade this pattern. And as the aristocracy develops, gov't tends more and mroe to act exclusively in the interests of the ruling class

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David Loftus
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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby David Loftus » Tue Jun 15, 2010 11:29 am

> “Money is a terrible master but an excellent servant”


Excellent. Never encountered that one before.
War is, at first, the hope that one will be better off; next, the expectation that the other fellow will be worse off; then, the satisfaction that he isn't any better off; and, finally, the surprise at everyone's being worse off. - Karl Kraus

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Lori Koonce
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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby Lori Koonce » Tue Jun 15, 2010 12:37 pm

Gwyn

Here are the first three things that come to mind:

1. Get my dream tattoo. A Chineese Dragon from the base of my neck to my tail bone.

2. Spend three months in each of the following places: England, France, Germany and probablly Australia.

3. Give my parents enough money to build a kitchen for their church, and probably enough to run their soup kitchen for at least 6 months without a hastle.

I'm sure there are a lot more, but I don't wanna think that hard this early in the AM!

Richard Keeney
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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby Richard Keeney » Tue Jun 15, 2010 2:08 pm

In this culture with my personality and the hindrance of capital lifted, I would probably ruin my health.
"It would be interesting to know what it is men are most afraid of. Taking a new step, uttering a new word is what they fear most."

--F. Dostoievsky, from CRIME AND PUNISHMENT

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David Loftus
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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby David Loftus » Tue Jun 15, 2010 2:15 pm

Richard Keeney wrote:In this culture with my personality and the hindrance of capital lifted, I would probably ruin my health.



You need money to do that?
War is, at first, the hope that one will be better off; next, the expectation that the other fellow will be worse off; then, the satisfaction that he isn't any better off; and, finally, the surprise at everyone's being worse off. - Karl Kraus

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robochrist
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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby robochrist » Tue Jun 15, 2010 2:25 pm

"Money is a terrible master but an excellent servant"

I dunno: last time I thought I had a reliable servant, I let my health go and lost EVERY cent trying to get it back!

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robochrist
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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby robochrist » Tue Jun 15, 2010 3:12 pm

...so, you see, I ring and ring and RING, but my servant never appears!

I may have to head for a gas station and "kidnap" one of these servants at gun point!

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Lori Koonce
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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby Lori Koonce » Tue Jun 15, 2010 4:49 pm

David Loftus wrote:
Richard Keeney wrote:In this culture with my personality and the hindrance of capital lifted, I would probably ruin my health.



You need money to do that?


Yes you do. Wine and song don't come with out it after all. The women, well depends on the gal!


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