THE PAVILION ANNEX

General discussions of interest to readers and fans of Harlan Ellison.

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robochrist
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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby robochrist » Sat Jan 21, 2012 5:55 pm

Lori...

That's an even lower blow - pairing Thom and Frank that way.

TALK to Thom about it! I guarantee you'll walk away realizing he isn't Frank! Jeezus.

Are any of you going to have the fortitude to take that step, or am I going to have to do the job?

**Adding something to Mark's comment re: people and their information

I, myself, have little faith in most people - but, you're on the "mark", as usual. People generally won't bother taking the step to research an issue from the historical and scientific sources now more accessible than ever; they settle back with old biases and apathy, yet form a baseless opinion derived from nothing more than buddy talk and laymen they happen to like.

Global warming - great example: people who insist it's a hoax never turn to scientists who do all the math and surveying; they turn to laymen for their sources. Even though it's all available on the internet (and a great deal on the cable science channels), they listen to people they simply like and choose to be skeptical without taking any further steps in fact-checking.

(Hey, this is how religion works!)

THEN entities like FOX take advantage of these attitudes, preying on the ignorant to foster propaganda, lies, and exploited fears. It's symbiotic.

I recently revisited BOWLING FOR COLUMBINE, and found it a perfect lab demonstrating this awful tribalistic obliviousness, as Moore interviewed people all over the country (a great segment, when he asked people why they felt Canada was less violent, less gun prone than we are: "they're mostly white in Canada", "they don't watch as many violent movies as we do", etc).

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robochrist
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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby robochrist » Sat Jan 21, 2012 6:13 pm

Diane ("i have no desire to debate with Thom Hartmann"),

Well...you SHOULD. I spoke with this guy - 3 times. He is a focused, cool-headed rational guy, very good with facts. And you get through on his show fairly quickly. Just grab your cell or smartphone while taking a break somewhere and dial Thom's show!

No one is ALWAYS right, but it IS possible you and others here are misconstruing HIS position on the topic.

Alright...alright...if you're all going to keep your heads in a vacuum and just spout off without being fair, I'LL make the call - Monday or Wendesday morning pacific time.

THEN...I'll come back here and either acknowledge your case, or rub all your faces in una gran pila de mierda!!

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robochrist
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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby robochrist » Sat Jan 21, 2012 6:38 pm

Shifting to my other idee fixe, responding to Michael Miller in the Pav:

Indeed, the writer is the architect. Hitchcock wrote his material, then brought in writers. He did NOT place "style over substance", a totally absurd notion; Hitch was his own genre. He bought the rights to Bloch's novel, that it would be shaped into Hitchcock material.

You guys don't know what you're talking about.

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FrankChurch
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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby FrankChurch » Mon Jan 23, 2012 3:08 pm

Rope, simple, delightful.

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Lori Koonce
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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby Lori Koonce » Mon Jan 23, 2012 5:43 pm

robochrist wrote:THEN...I'll come back here and either acknowledge your case, or rub all your faces in una gran pila de mierda!!


Robo

Here's the thing. I don't have a beef with Thom per say. Most the time he is everything you say. But, and this is for me the biggest problem. Either Frank is properly quoting him, and getting it right. In which case I have a problem with it. Or, and more likely, Frank is using a quote that doesn't quite match the point he's trying to make.

Either way, I don't need to bother the rest of America over something that is in the grand scheme rather small.

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robochrist
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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby robochrist » Mon Jan 23, 2012 6:42 pm

But I WANT you to bother America! BUG it! BIG time!

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Chuck Messer
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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby Chuck Messer » Mon Jan 23, 2012 6:51 pm

And bug Jack Barron, too, Damnit!

Chuck
Some people are wedded to their ideology the way nuns are wed to God.

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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby Moderator » Mon Jan 23, 2012 7:10 pm

Chuck Messer wrote:And bug Jack Barron, too, Damnit!

Chuck


Two points for a Bug Jack Barron reference from the dude named Messer!

(Seriously, I just happened to mention this book on Thursday...Duane, yer my witness!!! I was talking to Duane, Searcey and Jason and somehow it came up. Go figger!)
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John E Williams
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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby John E Williams » Mon Jan 23, 2012 7:37 pm

Ugh, I am gonna have to start spot-checking my Pavilion posts. Especially the ones I make at 5am.

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FrankChurch
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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby FrankChurch » Mon Jan 23, 2012 7:56 pm

Wow, Harlan just reamed me, Rob, all the Hitchcock fans. Wow.

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Lori Koonce
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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby Lori Koonce » Mon Jan 23, 2012 8:11 pm

FrankChurch wrote:Wow, Harlan just reamed me, Rob, all the Hitchcock fans. Wow.


Don't act all surprised Frank. After all, Harlan worked for the man, and none of those who commented could have had the chance.

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robochrist
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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby robochrist » Mon Jan 23, 2012 8:30 pm

I am THOUROUGHLY unreamed! I remain true to Hitchcock's artistry! I said all I wanted to say on the subject in the Pav, I'd have only repeated myself had I continued. I never commented on the show. Hitch himself always made it clear he had no direct hand in the writing of the episodes (he DID play a role in choosing the stories to adapt, though). The tv shows are a different animal. Harlan worked the later show, but he didn't work with Hitchcock on a movie.

It's Hitch's early stuff - his films and experiments from 1928 through FRENZY - (sans the fractious Selznick tenure) - that I hold to in my arguments. What I stated about his methods from his earliest days (with his wife at his side as something of a writing partner), is factual, and on my personal list of all-time favorite directors world-wide, this guy holds first place.

Call it "religious" or "devout" veneration, if you will, "I'll give you my indulgence when you pry it from my cold, dead hands!" Hitchcock was the greatest.

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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby Moderator » Mon Jan 23, 2012 9:01 pm

Rob - I thoroughly respect your devotion to Hitchcock's work. I love North by Northwest, for example.

Harlan has personal reasons for disliking the man...not the work, the man. We've had numerous discussions here and on the Pav in regards the audience's ability to separate the person from the work. (Mel Gibson, Michael Jackson, Michael Vick, etc.)

Warning to you, mon ami. That crackling sound you hear is the ice beneath your feet. Getting in Harlan's face when he's in this condition is highly questionable. Back away.

8)
- I love to find adventure. All I need is a change of clothes, my Nikon, an open mind and a strong cup of coffee.

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John E Williams
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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby John E Williams » Mon Jan 23, 2012 9:11 pm

Sound advice. I'm gonna scram from these environs for awhile myself.

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robochrist
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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby robochrist » Mon Jan 23, 2012 9:46 pm

Yeah, actually, I scrolled the Pav fast before responding, and actually missed the "I am sick" till after I posted that "final word". I'd have waited till much later.

I will, however, continue here in the annex as I see fit: simply, the personal things about Hitchcock are another subject; no where in the board discussions did that topic come up; it was dumb-ass quips like "style over substance" that got me, and I like to back up my arguments.

Yeah, the PERSON, Hitchcock, can be annoying and downright egregious: the weird trip he took Tippi Hedron on, for instance - REALLY awful, unethical, and warped. He ruined her career.

In person, I probably would not have liked him. But then, again, I suspect I would not have gotten along either with Hemingway, Jack London, or Dostoevsky either.


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